One more chance to love you

January 28, 2016 2:05 PM

Stays at boutique hotels featuring rooftop pools, private soirees at members-only, jacket-and-tie clubs and fundraisers at the Four Seasons, the St. Regis and the Mandarin Oriental.

How Jeb Bush blew through his warchest.
posted by four panels (243 comments total)

It's a beautiful thing when business as usual fails. Spending $90M on advertising and getting nothing return has got to feel like his world is falling apart.
posted by doctor_negative at 2:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [29 favorites]

It's wonderfully heartwarming to see voters running away from the Bush name......even if they're running to Trump. (I guess.)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:16 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

that this article exists confirms the party is getting behind trump, right?

(i assume people have read this)
posted by andrewcooke at 2:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's been weird to see the evolution of professional campaign operators. They're now basically like defense contracters; their purpose is to extract the absolute maximum amount of money for the longest period regardless of the client outcome.
posted by selfnoise at 2:20 PM on January 28, 2016 [63 favorites]

"His" PAC does get style points for choosing the most blatantly fascist name of the current election cycle, though.

"Bush Uber Alles PAC" was probably taken.
posted by yhbc at 2:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

As David Brooks wrote in 2010, once you get above a certain very minimal threshold, being the guy who was able to raise the most money generally doesn't matter (which is to say that Bush "blowing through his warchest" probably did not contribute to his sinking poll numbers).

Which is what makes all of the money being spent on political campaigns that much more depressing.
posted by AndrewInDC at 2:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wait. The name of Jeb's Super PAC is Right to Rise?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [10 favorites]

I can't think of a more damning indictment of modern American conservatism and the Republican Party than the fact that Donald Trump is in a position to win their Presidential nomination. Tens of millions of American citizens to potentially choose from, and this is who they wind up with to represent their movement and party. Well, they made their shit their bed, now they can lie in it.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:22 PM on January 28, 2016 [49 favorites]

Also, I feel like criticisms that Bush has been spending too much on hotels and airfare miss the entire point of Jeb!'s failure. He's bought a ton of ads, probably more than anybody else in the race -- certainly so in my area (northern VA). His campaign is a joke because nobody's buying what he's selling, not because he isn't selling it hard enough.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:25 PM on January 28, 2016 [36 favorites]

I've always doubted Jeb had much of a real chance, what with the large GOP field to fight and, too, he's always had to contend with both his dad's and his brother's legacies. Folks might have voted for him merely as GHWB's son, but not so much as the third Bush in such a short time.

And all those disgruntled high-dollar donors? The good news here is that they've more-or-less wasted their money by supporting yet another GOP candidate; imagine the campaign warchests if, instead of spreading their money over what was it, 19 separate GOP candidates at one time?, all the ultra-conservative donors had massed their cash for just two or three candidates from the get-go.
posted by easily confused at 2:25 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

$!
posted by Fizz at 2:25 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yes it is his Super PAC. Though to me it sounds less fascist and more like the name of a rock band from the early 2000s.
posted by FJT at 2:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

His super PAC is FedEx-ing Youtube videos to people.
posted by ghharr at 2:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [21 favorites]

Now that I've RTFA...I dunno, Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President. If I were pushed into running by my family and/or big money behind-the-scenes guys I probably would have blown through as much money as possible on luxury hotels and private jets too.

> To celebrate, Jeb’s parents and family welcomed their large network of well-heeled donors to their oceanside compound in Kennebunkport, Maine, where attendees were treated to rides in private trolley cars, lobster rolls and group photos with the sprawling Bush clan.

Aw, they got to ride in a choo-choo! This gathering of America's economic and political elite had more in common with my seventh birthday party than I would have expected.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [65 favorites]

Jon Schwarz: “Black Americans for a Better Future” Super PAC 100% Funded by Rich White Guys
posted by zombieflanders at 2:31 PM on January 28, 2016 [14 favorites]

I can't think of a more damning indictment of modern American conservatism and the Republican Party than the fact that Donald Trump is in a position to win their Presidential nomination

This is the Republicans hitting bottom. They have no chance with any of the candidates currently in the race. If Trump wins the nomination, I'm torn between enjoying the sheer comedy and watching hate and paranoia win. I'm Canadian, so I'm about 90% as concerned as I would be if I were American.

In watching Bush you're watching a guy who's tainted by political reality and compromise. He's a veteran politician and can't afford himself the sheer insanity of the Trump statements. Also, I agree that I don't think he wants the job.

The party in general needs to move to the center. It's worth it to alienate the extreme-right evangelicals and instead engage the moderates. They're not doing that. Hilary might as well start planning the Oval Office renovations. It's over.
posted by jimmythefish at 2:34 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

To be fair, wasting money entrusted to them on venal nonsense is kind of the standard operating procedure of that generation of the Bushes. It's a little weird to expect Jeb to buck the trend.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

$250 seems like an insultingly small donation from one rich guy to another rich guy's bullshit Super PAC. I guess that's all he could find in the couch that day.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

Though to me it sounds less fascist and more like the name of a rock band from the early 2000s.

A Christian rock band. They opened for Stryper.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [27 favorites]

Spending $90M on advertising and getting nothing

I wouldn't say he got nothing. It sounds like he's had a hell of a vacation.

and group photos with the sprawling Bush clan.

What? They all got to lie on the water bed?
posted by octobersurprise at 2:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump flies home nearly every night so he can sleep in his own bed.

Clearly, the man wants his carbon footprint to be the biggest in the world. Possibly bigger than the world.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [14 favorites]

Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President. If I were pushed into running by my family and/or big money behind-the-scenes guys I probably would have blown through as much money as possible on luxury hotels and private jets too.

Or you could stop being a spineless baby and tell your family you're not interested. He's a grown man. If he didn't want to run, he shouldn't have run.

He acts like a teenager being dragged to Grandma's birthday party, but he's not a fucking teenager, just a pathetic moob who never grew up.
posted by emjaybee at 2:38 PM on January 28, 2016 [12 favorites]

I honestly originally read this post as Bush spending all of his money on Members Only jackets.
posted by 4ster at 2:39 PM on January 28, 2016 [53 favorites]

Spending $90M on advertising and getting nothing return has got to feel like his world is falling apart.

The foundation of his presidential ambitions, to whatever degree they ever existed, fell apart in 1994. He's just trying to purchase a valid candidacy to, I dunno, make daddy happy?
posted by rhizome at 2:41 PM on January 28, 2016

I wonder if JEB! ever stayed at a TRUMP hotel.
posted by boo_radley at 2:46 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

Now that I've RTFA...I dunno, Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President. If I were pushed into running by my family and/or big money behind-the-scenes guys I probably would have blown through as much money as possible on luxury hotels and private jets too.

This is absolutely the impression I've been getting for months.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:48 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

“I’ve known Jeb for 30 years, so the idea that Jeb would allow anyone around him to be frivolous with money is hilarious, it’s ridiculous. The man is the most conservative, fiscally responsible person I’ve ever worked with.”

With his own money, or with other people's?
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:48 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Card Cheat: Aw, they got to ride in a choo-choo! This gathering of America's economic and political elite had more in common with my seventh birthday party than I would have expected.

And to me, an oceanside family compound full of politicians and wealthy businessmen riding trains sounds like some sort of Gilded Age throwback, like the elites discovered steampunk.
posted by traveler_ at 2:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

His invocation of his ghoulish behavior during the Terry and Michael Schiavo debacle is shocking- I'm horrified that he feels that bringing that up is a good idea.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:01 PM on January 28, 2016 [12 favorites]

"Great plot twist, I turned out to be the smart one."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:02 PM on January 28, 2016 [10 favorites]

If it's a hit piece it's kicking a guy after he's already down, and the fight was over six hours ago anyway.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:05 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

I would vote Jeb for lobster rolls.

I've never had a lobster roll but the way people go on about them, they must be amazing.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:07 PM on January 28, 2016 [10 favorites]

JEB?
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

I wonder if these luxury hotels were as lucky for brother Neil "I Didn't Know They Were Prostitutes" Bush as they were in Asia.

Strange women knocking on his hotel room door just wanting sex. Luckiest. Man. EVER.
posted by Capt. Renault at 3:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

I dunno, Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President.

Probably actually aiming for a cushy Secretary of Transportation or Ambassador to London gig.
posted by sammyo at 3:16 PM on January 28, 2016

> This is a hit piece.

That's what happens when you fail to deliver. If he was at 40% in the polls absolutely no-one would care if he was taking showers in Perrier every night. On the micro scale ("Everyone else is doing it too") it's unfair; on the macro scale (His entire career, Schiavo, etc.) he deserves every bit of it.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:16 PM on January 28, 2016 [17 favorites]

> If it's a hit piece it's kicking a guy after he's already down, and the fight was over six hours ago anyway.

Have you met the GOP? This is how the roll.
posted by mosk at 3:17 PM on January 28, 2016

This is how you teach Republicans about capitalism: The Bush name is an expensive name. His campaign has to fund the offset to two (or 3 if you count the first gulf war) wars, a sunk economy, traditional cronyism and manage to show a balanced and fiscally responsible budget. I feel pretty bad for Jeb really - he and his donors are just catching on to the fact that his name is that toxic to the public.

I mean, he legitimately thought that he had a chance looking like the traditional Washington insider and spending his money like a Washington insider. He thought that after a recession which showed how the rich like to loot from the poor that he didn't need to rethink his personal financial behavior.

Don't get me wrong - it's clear that Donald Trump doesn't hide from his money, but he really is banking on stupid - and he hasn't hidden from that fact - hell, he's double down and embraced it. Anyway... I hope after this election cycle the Right gets their act in line - not that they repeat the same shit with different figureheads, but maybe they look out at the political landscape and maybe recognize that campaigning for hate, mysoginy, social inequality, racial inequality and business as usual while simultaneously looting as much as possible is not actually popular.

Jeb 2016: Showing America How America Got Into This!
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:17 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

Look as long as he loses the nomination I'm happy that he's wasting his money. He can waste as much of it as he wants. In fact, the more of it he wastes, the better, because if it didn't go to him it would probably go to some other Republican candidate, and they're all horrifying this year.

I mean yeah, it would be better if that money went to actual good causes that would do good things with it, but this is conservative campaign money. That means it was never gonna go to a good cause, anyway. So I'm happy to see them burn it like the freakin' Joker. I'll gladly hand them the match.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [19 favorites]

"Now that I've RTFA...I dunno, Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President."

Sometimes I like to go through past presidential candidates and categorize them by whether I think they're driven by mommy issues or daddy issues. Jeb! is definitely daddy issues. To an almost embarrassing degree, since the whole exercise seems to have very little to do with being president and a lot to do with his father. (Mitt also made me really uncomfortable with the volume of his public daddy issues.)

(George Washington -- mommy issues. FDR -- mommy issues. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama -- absent daddy issues. Paul Ryan -- dead daddy issues. Gerry Ford -- bio-daddy issues. Ronald Reagan -- alcoholic daddy issues.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:20 PM on January 28, 2016 [31 favorites]

It's not that he blew through anything, it's that he died in the polls and could no longer raise anything.
posted by zippy at 3:27 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Related by way of wasting advertising dollars: I keep seeing Google platform ads for Ben Carson in the strangest places - and even weirder somehow they're slipping past AdBlock on places I don't normally get ads like reddit and imgur.

Yeah, you're definitely reaching out to the youth and raising awareness there. That's basically the exact demographic that thinks you're not just an idiot but a total kook, quack and more than a little bit of a rancid nut.

I ended up flagging the ads under the category of 'not interested' or something before adding them to AdBlock, but maybe I should have let them through and clicked on them a bunch to cost him some more money.
posted by loquacious at 3:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

maybe recognize that campaigning for hate, mysoginy, social inequality, racial inequality and business as usual while simultaneously looting as much as possible is not actually popular.

I don't think that's going to happen. Every election cycle we say it'll get better, but it doesn't.

If anything Trump's campaign shows how effective those methods are. He's managed to consistently stay in the national dialogue, be perceived as the leader of the race, and did it while spending a very low sum (in presidential campaign terms). There are probably consultants and think tanks right now trying to break down his debates, speeches, and other actions to see how they can apply it going forward.

And I don't know if Trump's followers will just go away. Even if they lose, it's possible that they'll be doing their own organizing in anticipation of the next election. They believe the US is on the edge of doom, and that definitely lights a fire on their post-election efforts.

And Trump himself knows post-election that he'll be fresh in the public's mind and use it leverage something else that requires national publicity.
posted by FJT at 3:45 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

What, the guy in the $8,000 a night suite is going to stop spending millions of dollars on ads to maybe get his polling into the high single digits? Come on!
posted by Copronymus at 3:50 PM on January 28, 2016 [38 favorites]

Sometimes I like to go through past presidential candidates and categorize them by whether I think they're driven by mommy issues or daddy issues.

Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President.

I will always remember Gore presiding over the Senate, going over the final resolution of Gore v. Bush, and being positively relieved that he was going to lose and be done with it. It wasn't the relief of being rid of the election mess, it was more, it was the relief of being rid of the yoke of an entire lifetime.
posted by Capt. Renault at 3:51 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sometimes I like to go through past presidential candidates and categorize them by whether I think they're driven by mommy issues or daddy issues.

Could you explain what you mean by "mommy issues" and "daddy issues" and how you can psychoanalyze people to tell who has which.
posted by dilaudid at 3:58 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

But I think like his brother, he's always taken it for granted he'll have a career in politics.

There was a story I read years ago but can't find now -- maybe I should post an Ask about it -- that described Jeb! as the golden child, the smart nice one who people like and can cross the aisle.

He was supposed to win FL Gov in 1994, and since FL hadn't had a two-term R gov at that point, he would be out in 98 ready to start spinning up for a 2000 campaign. Alas, W was the one to win in '94.

W got lucky, he was never supposed to be President. Nobody ever thought of him for President until well into his governorship.

Watch Poppy eulogizing Jeb!'s Presidential career 10yrs ago.
posted by rhizome at 4:01 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wait. The name of Jeb's Super PAC is Right to Rise?

It probably sounded better in the original German....Recht auf Aufstieg...yep!
posted by kirkaracha at 4:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

This is why you keep your warchest in a lockbox.
posted by Flashman at 4:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [14 favorites]

One of the biggest surprises of this election for me is that Jeb Bush's campaign proved dead in the water. I really thought he'd be the one to beat, because of his name. I expected that we'd see a second Bush vs. Clinton election, and now it's looking as though we might see a Trump vs. Sanders election. I'm reminded of something that I was told that George W. Bush said once. He got beaten in an election by a "good ole boy"-type candidate, and he vowed he'd "never be outdumbed in an election again". (Which vow he kept.) If Jeb's failure could be put into four words, they are these: Trump outdumbed Jeb Bush.
posted by orange swan at 4:22 PM on January 28, 2016 [27 favorites]

I guess this is one way to stimulate the economy, sure
posted by EatTheWeek at 4:25 PM on January 28, 2016

jimmythefish: If Trump wins the nomination, I'm torn between enjoying the sheer comedy and watching hate and paranoia win. I'm Canadian, so I'm about 90% as concerned as I would be if I were American.

If Trump wins the nomination, this election gets a whole lot more interesting in the same way that it's "interesting" to find out whether the brakes on the roller coaster will stop the car before the gap in the tracks. Fortunately, my spouse knows I'm completely serious (and agrees) in that I'll take my other country-of-citizenship up on a passport if Trump wins.
posted by fireoyster at 4:26 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Plot To Destroy Marco Rubio - "As Bush sank and Rubio rose in the polls last fall, Bush’s theory of the race was that Rubio, the candidate many mainstream conservatives have championed as their best chance to defeat Trump and Ted Cruz, was his immediate obstacle. The Bush onslaught against Rubio may end up being the most expensive and sustained negative attack of 2016."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:46 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

I like to think that if someone were crazy enough to throw money at me to run for president that I would prioritize having a good time running over doing things to increase my risk that I would be landed with the world's worst job.
posted by randomkeystrike at 4:48 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

Jeb Bush is worse than Trump. The only thing I even like about Trump is that he's kicking Bush around. I live in Florida and Bush was the worst governor ever, and paved the way for the next worst governor ever.

Also, Rubio is a nightmare.

Please don't vote for a Florida Republican in the primaries, folks. Go with someone reasonable like Santorum or Carson.

As God is my witness.
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:53 PM on January 28, 2016 [11 favorites]

Fortunately, my spouse knows I'm completely serious (and agrees) in that I'll take my other country-of-citizenship up on a passport if Trump wins.

You are far from the only person to be polishing up their exit strategies. I think people will seriously leave if Trump becomes president, not just talk about going to Canad as happens it seems every election cycle. My spouse and I also have plans ready.
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's been weird to see the evolution of professional campaign operators. They're now basically like defense contracters; their purpose is to extract the absolute maximum amount of money for the longest period regardless of the client outcome.

Mission Accomplished! You go to the St. Regis with the warchest you have, right?
posted by mwhybark at 5:01 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

I love the repeating pattern in this article of "Bush spends this much ridiculous money, Cruz and Rubio spend less ridiculously, Trump uses personal wealth to be completely obscene by comparison."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:01 PM on January 28, 2016

“Look, this is not the election cycle to be spending like a silver-spoon Establishment candidate," said a third donor. "It just doesn’t look right,” the donor said, referring to the way income inequality has emerged as a key theme in the 2016 election.

The one percent just realized they shouldn't have broken the turd polishers' union.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:02 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]

At least he won't be building a wall to stop you.

Maybe footage of Trump saying "I love Canada!" would sink his campaign? What could be worse and more contemptible than expressing love for the socialist hellhole that is Soviet Canuckistan?
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:03 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think people will seriously leave if Trump becomes president

I have the luxury to leave as well, but I'm not going to. Trump becoming president is indeed a nightmare, but it's going to be more of a nightmare for people who can't leave the country.

And plus, my grandparents only left the old country after a devastating loss in a protracted civil war. I should at least stay until that point, right?
posted by FJT at 5:04 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

I wouldn't make book on the Trumpoids to go away if he loses the election.

Remember when the teabaggers were born? They're still here, in fact they're back in force, and as stupidly weird as ever. Worse, they seem to be multiplying. They get nourishment out of anything that meets their version of twisted. Like the Donald, for example. He feeds them hate and they thrive on it.

Oh, Jor-el, please put me in a rocket and send me to a planet with a friendly sun.
posted by mule98J at 5:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

If Trump wins the nomination, I'm torn between enjoying the sheer comedy and watching hate and paranoia win.

If Trump gets the nomination, would he stand a chance of capturing enough voters who aren't pig-biting mad about gays/libruls/brown people to win? I imagine that, being a showman above all, he'd turn the charm up to 11, but would that be enough to erase the memories of his Bozo-Hitler shtick?
posted by acb at 5:09 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have my Australian passport. We'd start preemptively applying for her partner visa but it's nearly seven thousand fucking dollars.
posted by Talez at 5:09 PM on January 28, 2016

I'm reminded of something that I was told that George W. Bush said once. He got beaten in an election by a "good ole boy"-type candidate, and he vowed he'd "never be outdumbed in an election again". (Which vow he kept.) If Jeb's failure could be put into four words, they are these: Trump outdumbed Jeb Bush.

I suppose political anecdotes/jokes are endlessly reframed and assigned and difficult to track as they're oral history, but I can say yours is analogous to what I read in Taylor Branch's Parting the Waters about George Wallace's career. That before politics, Wallace had argued for equal treatment before a judge in defense of a black man's fines, but after losing his first election, and being "out-niggered", he'd never make the mistake again.

There's such make-believe, all around...these dynasties that rival soap-operas prevailing over a lunatic fringe are absent any middle. It was known for a very long time who people say they'll vote for and what they actually do in the voting booth are discordant. Clinton's run will go a long way in establishing predictions about gender and politics. Which is ultimately a good thing because more women shall run. The terms of debate, literally and figuratively, fleshed out. What the sexes have traditionally said in safe places among their own is being aired and it's exciting, often shameful, to see.

Only six months ago I considered Trump laughable in terms of Perot-- no way an establishment will risk a splinter, again?!?-- but I was wrong and it's compelling information that a long line of old-white men in the Senate have walked away from their long practiced queue.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 5:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

And to me, an oceanside family compound full of politicians and wealthy businessmen riding trains sounds like some sort of Gilded Age throwback, like the elites discovered steampunk.

Or perhaps some kind of Ayn Rand cosplay.

Though only if they're old trains. Modern trains = decadent European/Asian socialism = un-American.
posted by acb at 5:13 PM on January 28, 2016

FJT: I have the luxury to leave as well, but I'm not going to. Trump becoming president is indeed a nightmare, but it's going to be more of a nightmare for people who can't leave the country.

I can respect that viewpoint but I'm the heck out of here if Trump wins. At some point, my willingness to make macro-level choices that are "bad" (or at least less good) for me and mine is outweighed by looking out for #1. That point is pretty far tilted in favor of society versus individual but there is a limit. If we-the-people have shown that we're willing to elect President Goodhair—sorry, Perry, the title will have been taken from you in that event—based on the vitriol he has spewed then I'm getting out of the splash zone.

(My guess is still that Trump gets nowhere near a sniff of the big chair in the Oval Office because, like acb points out, there are far more reasonable voters outside of the Primaries/Caucuses nominating process.)
posted by fireoyster at 5:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

I've never had a lobster roll but the way people go on about them, they must be amazing.

The lobster baguettes the food trucks in Iceland have are indeed amazing. They have them at ATP Iceland, and they're the best food I've had at a festival by an order of magnitude.
posted by acb at 5:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

I now have this terrible vision of Trump alone in the Oval Office, on his knees, sniffing the chair. "That's the smell of power," he thinks.

"No," thinks Obama, flying away in a helicopter, "that's the 7-11 I had with my Secret Service guys at 5am."
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:24 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

Oh I don't know, I think Right to Rise sounds more like a lobby group for sufferers of erectile dysfunction.
posted by picea at 5:39 PM on January 28, 2016 [16 favorites]

I think people will seriously leave if Trump becomes president

If I had a dollar for everyone who said they would leave if Bush was elected, then who said they would leave if Bush was reelected, and now they would leave if Trump gets elected, I would have a nice nest egg. I hear the frustration and anger, but it is becoming a bit of a tired cliche at this point.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:49 PM on January 28, 2016 [24 favorites]

Great, now we'll have a bunch of Americans coming to steal the jobs of all the Syrians who'll be coming to steal our jobs.

Mr. Trudeau, build up that wall!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:49 PM on January 28, 2016 [11 favorites]

Honestly, if Trump wins, I don't think even Canada will be far enough away. The Canadian and American economies are so intertwined watching Trump win will be about as entertaining as watching one's conjoined twin jump off a cliff.
posted by orange swan at 5:54 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think if Trump was elected Congress would find a way to impeach him almost immediately. He would do something stupid and that would be it.

Of course then you would have whoever his VP was in charge...
posted by dilaudid at 5:58 PM on January 28, 2016

If I had a dollar for everyone who said they would leave if Bush was elected, then who said they would leave if Bush was reelected, and now they would leave if Trump gets elected, I would have a nice nest egg

While this is true, I think Trump is different than Bush. I never even considered such a move until Trump. Bush, to me, was a politician I strongly disagreed with who did some terrible things but ultimately was part of a system that at least had some sense of the future and keeping the country intact (if only to preserve the system that keeps them rich). Trump has no accountability to anyone except himself (as he likes to remind everyone) which makes him much more dangerous. While Congress can keep him somewhat reined in on the legal front, there's a lot you can do with executive and military action.

Now, my case is different because we're considering an international move regardless of who wins and moving to my wife's country would be easy. But a Trump win would be a big point in the "Pro" column for moving.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:00 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

i have beer is this the debate thread
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

Sure it is. I had commitments in New Hampshire!
posted by box at 6:13 PM on January 28, 2016

Credit where it's due: Cruz summed up Trump's position nicely.
posted by homunculus at 6:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Stay in your lane, Kasich.
posted by box at 6:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

whats up with rubios eye
has the devil come to claim his bargain
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

I think people will seriously leave

They really won't. Hitler himself could become president and they still wouldn't. I'd bet everything I have that 99% of the people who say they'd leave would not leave.

I say this as someone who DID leave, just not for political reasons. I've had many, many in-depth discussions with people considering the path I took for one reason or another, and every single one wusses out when they realize that it's actually hard.

The president doesn't actually have nearly enough impact on an everyday person's life to make them go through that level of difficulty and frustration JUST to escape living there, when living there is not significantly different from how it was before that election. As long as they've got their house, their car, their job... they're not dropping all that over what amounts to, for them, a quite tiny change.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 6:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]

You're not gonna hear a lot of polished political speech.
posted by box at 6:16 PM on January 28, 2016

The American people are terrified.
posted by box at 6:17 PM on January 28, 2016

every single one wusses out when they realize that it's actually hard.

Yeah, the only people I know who have left due to things like this were already dual-citizens or had a job offer or something that made it more like an inter-state move. Moving to a country you have no connections with is a huge deal that is unlikely for most people.

(Same for me, a few years ago I wouldn't really have considered it. Now, I was already in a long-term maybe-move plan before the whole Trump thing happened, and it makes me more likely to move, but it wouldn't be enough by itself).

I'm not even sure most people who say this _could_ move, it's not like you can just "decide" to move to some country unilaterally if you don't already have citizenship/residency or some direct family ties or something.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

A smaller Air Force than before airplanes were invented?
posted by box at 6:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fact-checking GOP candidate claims on Obama’s military spending
posted by homunculus at 6:24 PM on January 28, 2016

A smaller Air Force than before airplanes were invented?

Yeah, didn't Romney step on this rake already?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:24 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm always amazed at the commercials I see on Fox. I don't watch a lot of network TV, but I've grown so used to the CW montage of zit creams and mobile phones that I can't help but be amazed that Ahnold is selling apps, there is a Law and Order: Savior Victims Unit movie coming out, or that 20 year old CSPAN material is worth being part of an ad.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:25 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Euggghhhhh.
posted by box at 6:26 PM on January 28, 2016

Yeah, I did move abroad for a time, so I'm already familiar and comfortable with the expat life. You are right that most people won't go. To be quite frank, Mr. Freedom and I have no real need to go - we're white, middle-class Americans. But this past year (or two, since Ferguson really) has turned my stomach and I can't sit by and silently support a country with my presence that treats my fellow citizens so abominably, not if the president is the voice leading the charge. I miss Spain, where no one gets shot for just going about their daily business.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:26 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm always amazed at the commercials I see on Fox.

Join the revolt!
posted by homunculus at 6:26 PM on January 28, 2016

cry some more teddy
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:27 PM on January 28, 2016

Someone needs to ask Christie about why he didn't accept the Sumo challenge.
posted by homunculus at 6:27 PM on January 28, 2016

Oh I don't know, I think Right to Rise sounds more like a lobby group for sufferers of erectile dysfunction.

Electile dysfunction, perhaps.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [15 favorites]

If it's a hit piece it's kicking a guy after he's already down, and the fight was over six hours ago anyway.

I think that's called a post-mortem
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:28 PM on January 28, 2016

I have an '08 Obama mug that says "Now I don't have to move to Canada!" That said, utterly opposed as I was to GWB, I never seriously considered moving. And utterly repulsed as I am by Trump, I can only imagine moving over him. The fact is that most people have jobs and families and other social networks that make flight a less than optimal choice. Not to mention a desire to defeat such a person (such a desire carried me through the Bush years). I can imagine circumstances from which I'd flee, but it'd have to be some Syrian level shit. OTOH, this might be a great time to reprint The Plot Against America. Philip Roth will thank you if nothing else.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Jeb Bush using that gross word "warfighters."
posted by dhens at 6:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cruz threatening to leave the stage, lol...
posted by thefoxgod at 6:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Because they hurt his feelings, I guess
posted by thefoxgod at 6:30 PM on January 28, 2016

A debate, actually, is a policy issue. If you guys ask one more mean question...
posted by box at 6:30 PM on January 28, 2016

Megyyyyyn!
posted by box at 6:32 PM on January 28, 2016

Kasich is so desperate for approval.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:32 PM on January 28, 2016

Shut it, Kasich.
posted by homunculus at 6:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Pro-Guantanemo, anti-diner: Rubio 2016.
posted by box at 6:34 PM on January 28, 2016

How can Google endorse the debate with Fox News and still say it's motto is "Don't be Evil"?
posted by FJT at 6:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

How can Google endorse the debate with Fox News and still say it's motto is "Don't be Evil"?

How is a debate evil? The candidates are doing a great job of showing their evilness. I'm happy this is being shown to a wide audience.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:37 PM on January 28, 2016

We pause to bring you this musical interlude.


When the lights go out in the rest of the world, what do our cousins say?
They're playing in the sun and having fun, fun, fun, 'till daddy takes the gun away.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:38 PM on January 28, 2016

It'd be great if Google then came out with a fact check for every statement made while their logo was on screen.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:38 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

Civilization Jihad. I would buy that expansion.
posted by box at 6:38 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Carson is doing a good job of staying awake tonight.
posted by johnpowell at 6:39 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's best, with some of these things, not be said.
posted by box at 6:40 PM on January 28, 2016

Kasich: Don't talk about encryption and hacking and they'll go away.
posted by dhens at 6:40 PM on January 28, 2016

Kasich: we shouldn't talk about this because national security so I'm gonna talk about something completely different.
posted by homunculus at 6:40 PM on January 28, 2016

...is that bernie just over bears left shoulder...
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:41 PM on January 28, 2016

Noticeably little applause for Rand Paul's discussion of racial disparity in drug sentencing. Quelle surprise.
posted by dhens at 6:45 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

I kinda miss Trump. It's the difference between a car wreck instead of a demolition derby.
posted by peeedro at 6:46 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

This got posted to the front page a while back but the last few lines seem apropos:

Sanders: Look, Governor Bush, we're both going to lose but it feels really good knowing you're going to spend a lot more money doing it than I am.
Bush: Can I...can I respond to that?
Moderator: Yes, you don't have to ask me.
Bush: It's JEB! Call me JEB!

posted by A dead Quaker at 6:46 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]

Noticeably little applause for Rand Paul's discussion of racial disparity in drug sentencing.

Sorry, was getting some booze. Is he for or against?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:48 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

FUCK. YOU. CHRIS. CHRISTIE.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:50 PM on January 28, 2016 [11 favorites]

Noticeably little applause for Rand Paul's discussion of racial disparity in drug sentencing.

Sorry, was getting some booze. Is he for or against?

Against. He said that the war on drugs is destroying black families.

Meanwhile Chris Christie's response about cutting spending was OOGA BOOGA PLANNED PARENTHOOD.
posted by dhens at 6:50 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

I agree that a Trump presidency is fundamentally different than a Bush presidency, like fascist dictator different. People who have an easy exit strategy -- dual citizenship, spouse from another country -- will leave in droves. I wish I had something like that. My only option might be India and I don't see that happening even with Hitler coming to power. You don't uproot and go someplace completely foreign unless you are truly a refugee and God help us, if civil was breaks out, we won't be having this debate about whether it's worth it to leave or not. And absolutely, Trump will drag Canada down with the US, perhaps more so with Canada having less economic power than reasonable parts of the US like say California or New York State.

But this isn't happening, right? It's not really Trump right? I mean humans avoided nuclear Armageddon in the Cold War. They defeated Hitler, right? I'm finding it harder and harder to reassure myself that humans won't let Trump win, but they have to don't they?
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:51 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Delink health insurance from employment?
posted by box at 6:51 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

PUERTO RICANS ARE AMERICANS JACKHOLE
posted by dhens at 6:51 PM on January 28, 2016

If I was a Puerto Rican...
posted by box at 6:52 PM on January 28, 2016

(directed at moderator)
posted by dhens at 6:52 PM on January 28, 2016

What is Cruz talking about, opening up coverage across state lines? Who is asking for that? Am I understanding that right- how many people in the US are looking to seek care across state lines?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:53 PM on January 28, 2016

What is Cruz talking about, opening up coverage across state lines? Who is asking for that? Am I understanding that right- how many people in the US are looking to seek care across state lines?

This is a reference to buying insurance, not seeking providers (doctors/hospitals), across state lines. The idea is that being able to buy insurance across state lines will allow more competition and drive prices down. Not saying I think it's a good idea, but that's what it is.
posted by dhens at 6:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Kind of a weird play from the states-rights wing.
posted by box at 6:56 PM on January 28, 2016

He's talking about being able to buy coverage from insurance companies that don't operate in your state. If I understand correctly, insurance companies can't sell policies interstate. Probably is just a different way of saying that insurance companies don't want to be subject to state regulations.
posted by skewed at 6:57 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

So I guess I do understand his words, just not the idea. If you bought a plan from another state, would that plan be forced to cover you in the state where you live? I suppose the whole thing is just a dog whistle and not really something anyone wants to implement.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:00 PM on January 28, 2016

"Competing across state lines" is a perverse thing. It undermines States' rights (a right-wing absolute) in favor of corporate interests (a right-wing absolute). I don't know how someone disentangles this without having a change of heart about one, the other, or both.
posted by yesster at 7:01 PM on January 28, 2016

We need those new IRS agents--the ones we have now can't even manage to send instruction booklets to public libraries.
posted by box at 7:02 PM on January 28, 2016

Wow, even Jeb! is slamming Jeb!.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:02 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Marco-Bush is the fight we need.
posted by box at 7:03 PM on January 28, 2016

If you live in Virginia, you're not supposed to be able to buy an insurance policy from a California insurer. I think you could get away with it, and some insurers don't put any geographic restrictions on where you see a doctor. But you'd have to lie about your address. I don't know enough about the benefits of state regulation to say how important it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are a bunch. Otherwise it seems like a no-brainer, but I've been hearing about it since at least John McCain's presidential run, and it hasn't happened.
posted by skewed at 7:04 PM on January 28, 2016

If Barbara Bush had an ounce of compassion she would fake an illness to give Jeb! an excuse to leave the race. Unfortunately for Jeb! she does not.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:05 PM on January 28, 2016 [10 favorites]

ThePinkSuperHero, having a nationwide market for insurance is a big part of conservative reform proposals for health insurance. See here (from Forbes) and here (from a very right-wing source, The Federalist). Part of the idea is indeed a race to the bottom (pressuring states to remove regulations on insurance plans to make them more competitive nationwide).
posted by dhens at 7:07 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's an authenticity problem.
posted by box at 7:07 PM on January 28, 2016

If Barbara Bush had an ounce of compassion she would fake an illness to give Jeb! an excuse to leave the race. Unfortunately for Jeb! she does not.

True, more likely she'll get Jeb! to play a nice game of Solitaire and spend some time with the Queen of Diamonds.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

> FUCK. YOU. CHRIS. CHRISTIE.
> posted by Room 641-A

I'm not watching the debate, so I don't know what this is specifically in reference to, but I favorited it anyways, because I'm betting there are pretty good odds he deserved it.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [24 favorites]

Everyone else is a RINO.
posted by box at 7:09 PM on January 28, 2016

That bridge closure fiasco should be enough to tank Christie.
posted by yesster at 7:10 PM on January 28, 2016

"He said my name! He said my name! I get to talk!!"
posted by Room 641-A at 7:11 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Should be.
posted by box at 7:11 PM on January 28, 2016

While this is true, I think Trump is different than Bush. I never even considered such a move until Trump. Bush, to me, was a politician I strongly disagreed with who did some terrible things but ultimately was part of a system that at least had some sense of the future and keeping the country intact (if only to preserve the system that keeps them rich).

You know who I miss the hell out of? Dick Luger.

I disagreed on a lot with Dick Luger. He was very much an old-school Republican, of the stiff-suited Establishment variety, and as such we didn't have a hell of a lot to agree on. But he had a seriousness to him, and his work on securing loose nukes in the former USSR was so incredibly important that I worry his primarying by Richard Mourdock may one day prove to have horrible effects.

But Luger, unlike the modern Republicans, didn't deny that society should exist. He worked as a part of the system rather than trying to burn it down with gasoline so that my horrible Palin-loving relatives can fight in the army of Indiana's local Immortan Joe equivalent. Politically, yes, he was a foe, but he was a foe worth having, and one who you could disagree with with some degree of civility.

I'm no fan of the old-school Republicans, and I'm not blind to their wretchedness nor to that of the Democrats. But good god, give me Richard Luger a million times before Ted Cruz.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:12 PM on January 28, 2016 [31 favorites]

Everyone else is a RINO.

camera pans left to rocksteady
'megyn, can i speak?'
in the crowd, beebop clutches the armrest tight
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:12 PM on January 28, 2016 [11 favorites]

Ben Carson wakes up... and says that we can make immigrant entrepreneurs feel more secure by declaring war on ISIS.
posted by dhens at 7:12 PM on January 28, 2016

Dulce Candy? That's a Bond villain name.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:13 PM on January 28, 2016

I hope Jeb! calls the next guy from you tube "handsome."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:13 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

Dick Luger? Also a Bond villain name.
posted by box at 7:14 PM on January 28, 2016

box: "Kind of a weird play from the states-rights wing."

You're expecting logical consistency from the Republicans?
posted by octothorpe at 7:14 PM on January 28, 2016

I don't know how to link to the embedded video in this twitter but....

Mission Accomplished!
posted by rdr at 7:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

"DC Cartel"? I don't even speak the same language as these people.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:14 PM on January 28, 2016

He's really pushing tedcruz.org.
posted by box at 7:16 PM on January 28, 2016

It's Jesus Christ.
posted by box at 7:18 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jesus didn't get as much applause as I expected.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think Bernie Sanders is a good candidate for President.
posted by box at 7:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

BENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIIIII
posted by dhens at 7:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

Quick google on Dulce Candy. She's a formerly undocumented immigrant. Kind of convenient no one mentioned that. But all the right wing sites seem to be making hay about it.
posted by FJT at 7:19 PM on January 28, 2016

Rubio needs to work on making his quips more authentic
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:20 PM on January 28, 2016

Proven: I knew nothing.
posted by box at 7:20 PM on January 28, 2016

Was not expecting Rubio to endorse Bernie.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:20 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Shoutout to Jesus.
posted by homunculus at 7:21 PM on January 28, 2016

And Christie is going to set up a perimeter around the White House to keep away the Clintons.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:22 PM on January 28, 2016

Everytime a Republican candidate endorses Sanders instead of saying something positive about Trump or Cruz, take a drink.
posted by zippy at 7:23 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Josh Marshall is right. The Republicans are fully subscribed to "bitch-slap politics" now.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:24 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

Jesus likes me best

I am his favorite
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:27 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

No matter what your faith. Unless it's the wrong one.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:29 PM on January 28, 2016

Do they really think that ISIS's goal is to conquer America so they can stop us from eating pork? 'Cause that's what it sounds like.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:29 PM on January 28, 2016

If Rudio says "Judeo-" one more time I'm going to slap him.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:30 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

If Barbara Bush had an ounce of compassion she would fake an illness to give Jeb! an excuse to leave the race. Unfortunately for Jeb! she does not.

*walnut cracks*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:31 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]

Okay, I'm not going to be lectured to by Rand Paul. Please post the highlights here, you brave brave people.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Putin is a one horse country
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:34 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

One horse country? Does it have a shirt on?
posted by peeedro at 7:34 PM on January 28, 2016

A radical religious leader with an apocalyptic vision of the future? Is he highlighting that in a "we need to fight fire with fire" sense?
posted by thefoxgod at 7:36 PM on January 28, 2016

google "gop debate" to vote for the winner of this debate. The Internet has already decided we are all voting for Trump, so just do that.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:36 PM on January 28, 2016

I guess the verb to use with sanctions is slap?
posted by saul wright at 7:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

ISIS's goal is to conquer America so they can stop us from eating pork?

Mmmmm ... pork ...
posted by octobersurprise at 7:39 PM on January 28, 2016

Rubio has every single word of every answer scripted, and he's spurting them out as fast as he can. Sounds like he's trying to convince Cruz's evangelical supporters that he's sufficiently pious, but it comes off like he's trying to do a magic spell.
posted by skewed at 7:40 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

The Internet has already decided we are all voting for Trump, so just do that.

Trump is wise: The only winning move is not to play.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:44 PM on January 28, 2016

Will JEB! call Nabila beautiful too?
posted by dhens at 7:45 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

...what's with the beauty bloggers?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:45 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

CEO's get fired for having sex with young interns?
posted by skewed at 7:46 PM on January 28, 2016

Well, Nabila is apparently not beautiful :-(
posted by dhens at 7:47 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

*walnut cracks*

I honestly don't know if I should laugh or cry.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:47 PM on January 28, 2016

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this blend wall!
posted by dhens at 7:48 PM on January 28, 2016

A transatlantic natural gas pipeline ... what could possibly go wrong?!
posted by zebra at 7:51 PM on January 28, 2016

Trump's masterstroke is in giving the country an entire debate without him, like "miss me yet?"
posted by rhizome at 7:53 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

...what's with the beauty bloggers?

Not exactly the GOP's demographic. They should have taken a question from FailArmy instead.
posted by peeedro at 7:54 PM on January 28, 2016

ONE TRUE KING FISCAL CONSERVATIVE
posted by dhens at 7:55 PM on January 28, 2016

9/11 ... everybody drink!
posted by zebra at 7:56 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Chris Christie
posted by dhens at 7:57 PM on January 28, 2016

Ben Carson literally just quoting the preamble to the Constitution, while Rubio starts off with "The Bible."
posted by dhens at 7:58 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm imagining Trump's next move to be just to glob them all together, like "one of the guys at the debate last week, i forget who, but he said [strawman]" He can really fuck with the other contestants, misattributing them. "Ah, you all sound the same to me. AMIRITE PEOPLE"
posted by rhizome at 8:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]

BTW, there's no such thing as the president of Sweden.
posted by peeedro at 8:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

Rubio has every single word of every answer scripted, and he's spurting them out as fast as he can.

As somebody with sales experience I invite you to guess how well that works.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:27 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

So far Fox poll results show Rubio as winner followed by Trump, heh.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

What is Cruz talking about, opening up coverage across state lines? Who is asking for that? Am I understanding that right- how many people in the US are looking to seek care across state lines?

This is fancy code for "get rid of state insurance regulators," because some of the state insurance regulators have gone after the most egregious practices of health insurers and questioned particularly large rate increases. Except it sounds good, because who wouldn't want to open up coverage across state lines?
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]

I liked the part where Chris Wallace told Ted Cruz that no one liked him.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:03 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]

Cruz Threatens To Leave Fox News Debate Stage Over 'Mean Questions'

I thought Cruz sounded here like an obnoxious conservative college freshman who's upset at his liberal Ivy League professor and is threatening to walk out of class and go complain to the dean.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]

Well, when the winning move is to not show up, leaving looks like a lock-in for second place.
posted by yesster at 9:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ben Carson literally just quoting the preamble to the Constitution, while Rubio starts off with "The Bible."

I did feel compelled at Carson's reading to note that the bit about "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves" took "ourselves" very literally in that it didn't involve people liberty who looked like, say, Ben Carson.

On the other hand, I was saddened by Kasich, who while somehow less exciting than Jeb! and living the dream that Ohio is a great utopia where the streets are paved with gold, has managed to be an all around decent human being in these debates. As to the issue of backdoors in encryption, he seemed to indicate that this isn't something that should be up for public debate and stated it should be worked out secretly in the White House Situation Room. The idea that we can't talk about this, or that it can somehow be solved in secret, is profoundly disturbing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Putin is a one horse country

That's a description worthy of Sarah Palin.
posted by SisterHavana at 9:39 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

As to the issue of backdoors in encryption, he seemed to indicate that this isn't something that should be up for public debate and stated it should be worked out secretly in the White House Situation Room.

I wonder how he squares this with the concept of public corporations, which are being enlisted.

The government leaving everybody alone and doing its own work in situation rooms or whatever is a pretty good encapsulation of the pro-crypto position.
posted by rhizome at 9:51 PM on January 28, 2016

I'm convinced Donald has a faraday cage woven into his scalp.
posted by clavdivs at 9:59 PM on January 28, 2016

I thought Cruz sounded here like an obnoxious conservative college freshman who's upset at his liberal Ivy League professor and is threatening to walk out of class and go complain to the dea

That's seems to be the consensus, but I thought that was a jab at Trump for cancelling his appearance because of all the mean things Megyn Kelly said but it backfired and he couldn't start saying No No it's about Trump!
posted by Room 641-A at 10:07 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]

"I think if Trump was elected Congress would find a way to impeach him almost immediately. He would do something stupid and that would be it..... Of course then you would have whoever his VP was in charge..."


Trump / Palin

What could go wrong?
posted by mule98J at 11:42 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Putin is a one horse country.

Possibly the most un-fact-checkable statement of the debates so far.
posted by sour cream at 1:39 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump / Palin

"she's not vice president, she's my insurance policy"
posted by ennui.bz at 4:23 AM on January 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Aw, they got to ride in a choo-choo!

George H. W. Bush Reassures Jeb: ‘It Doesn’t Matter If You Win or Lose As Long as You Have Fun’
posted by JoeXIII007 at 5:01 AM on January 29, 2016

From the article about those mailed-out youtubes: As of June 30, the last time the group had to file a financial disclosure with the Federal Election Commission, it had more than $97 million cash on hand.

Christ that makes me want to weep.

~~~~~~~wavy lines~~~~~~~

"Hey, America, thanks for having me on this debate. Well, I've got a stupid amount of money behind me, and I've decided it's actually insane for me to spend that on a political campaign, so I'm gonna *[build 100 old folks' homes throughout the country and subsidise them for ten years]. Vote for me!"

~~~~~~wavy lines~~~~~~~~

Sigh.


*Substitute for literally anything even remotely sane.
posted by greenish at 6:45 AM on January 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh yeah, didn't Chris Wallace ask Jeb! a question about someone, or maybe some agency, blowing through a ton of money, wasting it on expensive hotels and stuff?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:00 AM on January 29, 2016

Competitive high-profile campaigns are all based upon a simple proposition: "Here's why I am the guy to solve this problem."

When that proposition is disrupted, you are in real trouble. McCain's Presidential campaign is a great example. His choice of Sarah Palin seriously disrupted the competence / experience / moderation messaging that he was using to distinguish himself from George W. Bush and Obama. Then the global financial crisis blew up what problem it was people wanted to solve.

Bush NEVER had a compelling proposition about being the guy. Governor of Florida ten years ago. Unlike GWB in 1999-2000, nobody under 40 remembers his dad, nobody over 40 has a fresh comparison of his dad's Yankee dignity in the White House versus Bill Clinton and his intern frolicking. And Bush's version of the problem -- we need to be more effective invaders abroad and have a double barreled domestic policy of corporate welfare and amnesty for illegal aliens -- was blown sky high by Trump and Cruz, and Bush had no way to respond. All the money in the world can't make up for that.
posted by MattD at 7:07 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

He's really pushing tedcruz.org

I noticed that too during the last debate. Apparently it's because someone else bought tedcruz.com and put up a single page that says:

SUPPORT PRESIDENT OBAMA.
IMMIGRATION REFORM NOW!

posted by metaphorever at 7:13 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bush NEVER had a compelling proposition about being the guy. Governor of Florida ten years ago. Unlike GWB in 1999-2000, nobody under 40 remembers his dad, nobody over 40 has a fresh comparison of his dad's Yankee dignity in the White House versus Bill Clinton and his intern frolicking. And Bush's version of the problem -- we need to be more effective invaders abroad and have a double barreled domestic policy of corporate welfare and amnesty for illegal aliens -- was blown sky high by Trump and Cruz, and Bush had no way to respond. All the money in the world can't make up for that.

tl;dr: To run as the Republican nominee you have to win the primary and have you see the people that vote in Republican primaries?
posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Here's my crackpot theory on why Trump walked from the debate: those flip-flop reels they played on Rubio and Cruz weren't a surprise. The videos were brought in for the discussion on immigration, they led to Rubio v Bush and a Cruz v Paul segments. So my guess is that since immigration was the issue that got the Trump train rolling, they also had a Trump flip-flop reel for that segment. Rubio and Cruz had a chance to prepare their answers, but Trump saw it as in insult and walked over it because he's not going to stand for somebody trying to use his words against him.
posted by peeedro at 7:37 AM on January 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Monday will be a real test. It still remains possible (not likely!) that Trump massively underperforms and the entire phenomenon dissipates.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Early ratings estimates have last night getting more viewers than the GOP debate that included Trump earlier this month. It was the 2nd lowest-rated of the 6 GOP debates, which fits a general decline in interest over time.

Fox News Channel’s debate from Iowa averaged an 8.4 household rating. This is up vs. the 7.4 overnight rating for the most recent GOP debate, on Fox Business Network earlier this month, but it stands as the second lowest-rated of the six Republican gatherings this cycle. The 8.4 does top three of the four Democratic debates to date.

Nielsen will issue total-viewer estimates later today, but it’s likely that last night’s debate on FNC averaged in the vicinity of 12 million viewers. By comparison, the combined viewership of CNN and MSNBC, which covered Trump’s competing Iowa event last night, appears to be about 3 million or so.
posted by mediareport at 7:56 AM on January 29, 2016

I think it's more likely that Trump outperforms his recent polling. Racists almost always turn out in larger numbers than pre-election poll numbers indicate, in my experience.
posted by mediareport at 8:00 AM on January 29, 2016

I don't think ratings will have anything to do with the actual vote.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:00 AM on January 29, 2016

Oh, of course. Those two comments weren't meant to be directly related.
posted by mediareport at 8:01 AM on January 29, 2016

Now that I've RTFA...I dunno, Bush never gave me the impression that he actually wanted to be President.

I have met Jeb and heard him speak to a small group and the difference between how he comes across that way versus his public campaigning is just mind boggling. I wouldn't vote for either guy, mind you, but the one in person comes across as competent and borderline reasonable and interested in governing. The one on tv... I don't even know what that one wants or does.

The only conclusion I have come to is that the real-ish Jeb knows he can't get elected by being only marginally full of nonsense about Obama and republican beliefs, so he tries to put on some other more extreme persona and is just unbelievably bad at it. So if anything he wants to be president too much.

Having suffered under his nonsense in Florida for eight years I can't believe I find myself preferring him over the bunch of other front-runners.
posted by phearlez at 8:24 AM on January 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Putin is a one horse country.

Vote Carson/Homsar 2016!
posted by FJT at 8:39 AM on January 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Huffington Post is adding an editor’s note to all of its future articles on Donald Trump, calling him a “serial liar” and “rampant xenophobe” for his comments against Muslims.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:47 AM on January 29, 2016

It's funny how Ted Cruz sounded like a tone deaf IT dude when he said "debating is a policy issue." Tech nerds (I am one) sometimes definitively say something is an "x" "issue" instead of "y" with an air of false authority to steer conversation. He just sounded like his mouth was full of ham, the words did not line up right in response to "in all fairness, this is a debate." He was definitely thinking on his feet with the "I might just have to leave" comment because he genuinely wanted people to feel that he felt he was being picked on, but also wanted to pick on Trump at the same time. Since you can't really pull off whining and picking on someone at the same time, it came across weak and he had to explain it later.

I like how everyone stole the signature "let me be clear" from Obama. Imitation and flattery baby.
posted by aydeejones at 8:51 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also, would someone tell the makeup guy, while he's about it, to put the orange stuff on the Donald's eyebags, too? He looks like a big Cheeto and it distracts me from his message.
posted by mule98J at 9:10 AM on January 29, 2016

Trump and Cruz Battle for Evangelical Hearts
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:35 AM on January 29, 2016

Everything is very grim, of course, but there's something oddly cheering about how unconvincing Trumps efforts to persuade people he gives a shit about the bible are.

I guess they'll give him points for trying though.
posted by Artw at 9:40 AM on January 29, 2016

The Huffington Post is adding an editor’s note to all of its future articles on Donald Trump, calling him a “serial liar” and “rampant xenophobe” for his comments against Muslims.

They tried something similar before by putting the "Entertainment" tag on all Trump related stories (and like now they got headlines at the time from other sites drawing attention to them). I think both instances are just Huffington Post trying to puff itself up and look good. They don't actually care about anything but page views and ad impressions.

God, I hate the Huffington Post. It's like Slate and Buzzfeed spawned a demon child together.
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:56 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump and Cruz Battle for Evangelical Hearts
According to Trump, "They are really delicious on crackers"
posted by Wolfdog at 10:26 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Huffington Post’s Anti-Trump Disclaimer Falsely Implies Other GOP Candidates Aren’t Also Xenophobes
posted by homunculus at 10:31 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

God, I hate the Huffington Post. It's like Slate and Buzzfeed spawned a demon child together.

Well, they have the same daddy. (Aunt Chelsea seems pretty cool, though!)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:33 AM on January 29, 2016

Obama's "Let me be clear" has thoroughly invaded and taken over American English; it is EVERYWHERE. It'd be more interesting if a candidate were deliberately avoiding it ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:35 AM on January 29, 2016

Krugman: Potemkin Ideologies - "On the Democratic side, the argument is about a theory of change: voters really do care about progressive priorities, and are torn between two candidates who broadly have similar ideologies but have different visions of the politically possible.

What we’re seeing on the Republican side, by contrast, is that almost nobody except a handful of pundits and think-tank hired guns cares at all about the official party ideology."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:42 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

That HuffPo disclaimer is HILARIOUS! Like: why is HuffPo getting in the business of keeping Trump away from the nomination?
posted by rhizome at 11:39 AM on January 29, 2016

What we’re seeing on the Republican side, by contrast, is that almost nobody except a handful of pundits and think-tank hired guns cares at all about the official party ideology

Krugman should do better than this when describing an authoritarian subculture.
posted by rhizome at 11:43 AM on January 29, 2016

I don't know, he seems to get to that at the end:

But I’d push it a bit further, and harsher. What’s really going on, I’d argue, is (justified) fear over the erosion of white patriarchy. (That’s what the attack on Planned Parenthood is really about too.) That is, it’s about authority, not virtue.

And so Trump’s lifestyle, his personal New York values, don’t matter, as long as he’s seen as someone who will keep Others in their place.

posted by OmieWise at 11:48 AM on January 29, 2016

I think it was a mistake for Trump to skip the debate. Just skimming through the usual RSS feeds and it feels like the first time in a while that Trump news isn't suffocating everything else. In addition, there is some backlash against last night's event:

Veterans blast Trump fundraiser for using them as ‘political props’

I'm not saying the spell has been broken or anything, but it feels like he lost a little mo last night.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:06 PM on January 29, 2016

I don't know, he seems to get to that at the end:

No, he's being narrow about it for some reason. I'm talking about the authoritarian mindset where people just want to be led, not specifically about white patriarchy, but about "tell me what to think."
posted by rhizome at 12:32 PM on January 29, 2016

Every time someone claims Trump has lost some mo his poll numbers go up 2%.
posted by Justinian at 1:31 PM on January 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah, I guess I thought he was writing about something different than the need some people have for authoritarianism. He was writing about the larger question of whether there is content to the platforms espoused by the two parties. Not every column is about every thing.
posted by OmieWise at 5:49 PM on January 29, 2016

I'm not speaking as a professional mo-sayer, my opinions don't count.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:49 PM on January 29, 2016

Jeb Bush, Hispanic? - "But the most important thing to know about Jeb is his family."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:46 PM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]