Vegan Butcher Shops: A global trend finally hitting the U.S.
February 16, 2016 10:35 AM Subscribe
At The Herbivorous Butcher, vegan meats are escaping the uncanny valley of meatless meat flavors. Although not the first vegetarian butcher shop in the world, they appear to be the first in the U.S., part of a global trend. Their grand opening was January 23rd.
The Herbaceous Butcher is owned by a dude named Kale?
Name is destiny, end the debate.
Oh, and I'm willing to wager one billion dollars I can identify the vegan ribs blindfolded ten times out of ten, I am a dad, and I will not be fooled.
posted by Keith Talent at 10:52 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Name is destiny, end the debate.
Oh, and I'm willing to wager one billion dollars I can identify the vegan ribs blindfolded ten times out of ten, I am a dad, and I will not be fooled.
posted by Keith Talent at 10:52 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
MetaFilter: meatless meat flavors
posted by Fizz at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 10:53 AM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Minneapolis has opened a vegan butcher shop.
Game, Portland. Game, set, and match.
posted by maxsparber at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Game, Portland. Game, set, and match.
posted by maxsparber at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Any help?
From what I can tell, it's an effort to trigger the particular flavor centers that meat most often hits - some combination of umami, saltiness, and whatever the one for fat is. It's just that it's kind of weird to develop a product that specifically does that without a specific analogous flavor to compare it to, for whatever reason.
posted by Think_Long at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
From what I can tell, it's an effort to trigger the particular flavor centers that meat most often hits - some combination of umami, saltiness, and whatever the one for fat is. It's just that it's kind of weird to develop a product that specifically does that without a specific analogous flavor to compare it to, for whatever reason.
posted by Think_Long at 10:55 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
MeatFilter
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I know where I'm going next time I visit family in the Twin Cities.
posted by larrybob at 10:59 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by larrybob at 10:59 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
In that way, I just can't understand why someone would want to turn their food into something they don't want to eat. If you aren't down with meat, like I'm not down with pork...why are you shaping and flavoring the food to make it look more like meat?
Or is this something for recent converts to veganism/vegetarianism that are still craving meat?
Okay, I'll answer this one and will assume you're asking in good faith.
For a lot of folks, it's a way of normalizing how and what you eat. For folks wanting to transition into being vegan or vegetarian, these products can be a good gateway into breaking the perception that as a vegan, I must either eat nothing but leaves, pulses and more leaves and be a sickly individual. No, I get to enjoy a burger/hot dog same as anyone else, just mine is made out of not-animals. This is especially handy when you go to cookouts during the summer and you might be the only herbivore there (you will still get shit though; you will always get shit). And brands like Beyond Meat, Gardein, Field Roast have made some amazingly tasty products that I have had omnivores enjoy. Just because I don't eat animals--and believe me, I do not crave meat--doesn't mean I don't occasionally want a meal that resembles something most everyone else chooses to eat. It is a way of saying "I can still eat this thing with you; it's just made of plants/soy/gluten."
I love this trend. It's great because it means I can try new things and buy new things and do it while eating how I choose to live and believe. It also shows my omni friends and family that I won't serve them what they assume vegan food is going to be. It gives them options that might make them feel less uncomfortable.
posted by Kitteh at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2016 [51 favorites]
Or is this something for recent converts to veganism/vegetarianism that are still craving meat?
Okay, I'll answer this one and will assume you're asking in good faith.
For a lot of folks, it's a way of normalizing how and what you eat. For folks wanting to transition into being vegan or vegetarian, these products can be a good gateway into breaking the perception that as a vegan, I must either eat nothing but leaves, pulses and more leaves and be a sickly individual. No, I get to enjoy a burger/hot dog same as anyone else, just mine is made out of not-animals. This is especially handy when you go to cookouts during the summer and you might be the only herbivore there (you will still get shit though; you will always get shit). And brands like Beyond Meat, Gardein, Field Roast have made some amazingly tasty products that I have had omnivores enjoy. Just because I don't eat animals--and believe me, I do not crave meat--doesn't mean I don't occasionally want a meal that resembles something most everyone else chooses to eat. It is a way of saying "I can still eat this thing with you; it's just made of plants/soy/gluten."
I love this trend. It's great because it means I can try new things and buy new things and do it while eating how I choose to live and believe. It also shows my omni friends and family that I won't serve them what they assume vegan food is going to be. It gives them options that might make them feel less uncomfortable.
posted by Kitteh at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2016 [51 favorites]
like I'm not down with pork...why are you shaping and flavoring the food to make it look more like meat?
Why do people make channa masala and not just eat chick peas straight out of the can?
Why do people make dozens of kinds of fruit juice and not just one since they're all more-or-less the same nutritional profile?
Why does anyone eat celery in any form considering it's basically just fiber?
Because people like different tastes and textures. Also fake meat is often (although not always) fairly high in protein and some vegetarians/vegans have trouble getting enough. (I know you don't actually need that much protein, but it's filling and some people want more and don't want to eat three cans of beans instead of one can to get there)
posted by GuyZero at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
Why do people make channa masala and not just eat chick peas straight out of the can?
Why do people make dozens of kinds of fruit juice and not just one since they're all more-or-less the same nutritional profile?
Why does anyone eat celery in any form considering it's basically just fiber?
Because people like different tastes and textures. Also fake meat is often (although not always) fairly high in protein and some vegetarians/vegans have trouble getting enough. (I know you don't actually need that much protein, but it's filling and some people want more and don't want to eat three cans of beans instead of one can to get there)
posted by GuyZero at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
Why does anyone eat celery in any form
This is a question to which I will never, ever know the answer.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
This is a question to which I will never, ever know the answer.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Any help?
(1) Mock meat tastes good when done well, just as a thing on its own, it's kind of texturally fun to fool around with and can do things other ingredients can't, as Chinese chefs have known for a long time (think about eg "mock duck" as a thing in its own right, it's not necessarily trying to fool people or just be a bad substitute for meat). And (2) it can be nice for vegetarians to participate in and adapt traditional cuisines and food cultures that they otherwise wouldn't really be able to get into because they're meat-centric (eg this incredible vegan barbecue truck is the only reason I understand why people like Carolina-style barbecue.)
posted by RogerB at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
(1) Mock meat tastes good when done well, just as a thing on its own, it's kind of texturally fun to fool around with and can do things other ingredients can't, as Chinese chefs have known for a long time (think about eg "mock duck" as a thing in its own right, it's not necessarily trying to fool people or just be a bad substitute for meat). And (2) it can be nice for vegetarians to participate in and adapt traditional cuisines and food cultures that they otherwise wouldn't really be able to get into because they're meat-centric (eg this incredible vegan barbecue truck is the only reason I understand why people like Carolina-style barbecue.)
posted by RogerB at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is especially handy when you go to cookouts during the summer and you might be the only herbivore there
Also, per Kitteh, meat has an immense place in meals culturally and for people raised on western diets it can be really hard to structure a nutritious meal without any meat.
People joke about tofurky - and I have to say, it's not the greatest name - but it makes Thanksgiving and Christmas much, much more enjoyable for my nearly-vegan wife and vegetarian daughter.
posted by GuyZero at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Also, per Kitteh, meat has an immense place in meals culturally and for people raised on western diets it can be really hard to structure a nutritious meal without any meat.
People joke about tofurky - and I have to say, it's not the greatest name - but it makes Thanksgiving and Christmas much, much more enjoyable for my nearly-vegan wife and vegetarian daughter.
posted by GuyZero at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Any help?
The siblings who run this business are from a very meat-centric culture. They are both converts to veganism. They wanted to retain important parts of the culture they grew up in, which was very food oriented and two or more meat dishes were common at meals.
I read a bunch of articles over the weekend. One of their goals is they hope to spread veganism by appealing to meat eaters.
I am kind of with you. I grew up in a meat and potatoes household. I am not vegetarian, but I eat a lot less meat than I used to and probably a lot less meat than most Americans. I enjoy vegetarian dishes that are unapologetically vegetarian.
But I liked that this shop is apparently doing this in a very appealing fashion. They get high praise for their flavors and they talk a lot about the importance of getting texture right. I am incredibly picky about meat quality and will eat a vegetarian dish before I will eat most cheap meats, like hamburgers or hot dogs. So this trend interests me in part as something I might be happy to eat.
posted by Michele in California at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
The siblings who run this business are from a very meat-centric culture. They are both converts to veganism. They wanted to retain important parts of the culture they grew up in, which was very food oriented and two or more meat dishes were common at meals.
I read a bunch of articles over the weekend. One of their goals is they hope to spread veganism by appealing to meat eaters.
I am kind of with you. I grew up in a meat and potatoes household. I am not vegetarian, but I eat a lot less meat than I used to and probably a lot less meat than most Americans. I enjoy vegetarian dishes that are unapologetically vegetarian.
But I liked that this shop is apparently doing this in a very appealing fashion. They get high praise for their flavors and they talk a lot about the importance of getting texture right. I am incredibly picky about meat quality and will eat a vegetarian dish before I will eat most cheap meats, like hamburgers or hot dogs. So this trend interests me in part as something I might be happy to eat.
posted by Michele in California at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Huh. I didn't even think actual butchers shops were doing that well these days.
FWIW Quorn still has the lead as the best meat substitute in my book, but its decidedly non-vegan (eggs used for texture and binding).
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
FWIW Quorn still has the lead as the best meat substitute in my book, but its decidedly non-vegan (eggs used for texture and binding).
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Any help?
As a kid, I resented being made to eat beans and weird neatloaf and visible vegetables, since this opened me up to ridicule. Soy dogs and veggie burgers let you eat something normal-seeming. I also appreciated the bizarreness of fake meat products (fake bacon strips are just Beggin' Strips for people, and that's hilarious because we're eating what the dog is eating.) AS an adult, I appreciate the convenience of microwaving a soy-based hockey puck rather than having to cook something for protein.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
As a kid, I resented being made to eat beans and weird neatloaf and visible vegetables, since this opened me up to ridicule. Soy dogs and veggie burgers let you eat something normal-seeming. I also appreciated the bizarreness of fake meat products (fake bacon strips are just Beggin' Strips for people, and that's hilarious because we're eating what the dog is eating.) AS an adult, I appreciate the convenience of microwaving a soy-based hockey puck rather than having to cook something for protein.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
When I'm in the UK, I love the Linda McCartney sausage rolls but I have yet to convince my in-laws to bring boxes and boxes of them back when they visit my SIL.
posted by Kitteh at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
hal_c_on, Many vegetarians will be familiair with people asking "why are you eating vegetables shaped like a burger" but those same questioners never stop to question why they're eating meat shaped like a disk or tube.
Lots of cultural norms, associations, convenience (patties fit buns so much better than lettuce does) come into play.
posted by davemee at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Lots of cultural norms, associations, convenience (patties fit buns so much better than lettuce does) come into play.
posted by davemee at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Huh. I didn't even think actual butchers shops were doing that well these days.
I think the market has bifurcated - regular butcher shops have been replaced by supermarket meat counters, but fancier high-end places still do OK. As long as there isn't a Whole Foods nearby, which in the suburbs seems to have become the only actual decent butcher counter around.
posted by GuyZero at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016
I think the market has bifurcated - regular butcher shops have been replaced by supermarket meat counters, but fancier high-end places still do OK. As long as there isn't a Whole Foods nearby, which in the suburbs seems to have become the only actual decent butcher counter around.
posted by GuyZero at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016
I am vegetarian and live in Minneapolis! This is relevant to my interests! I've only had their Korean ribs, but they are AMAZING. And it really is set up like a "butcher shop" complete with employees wearing aprons and little white hats.
As to "why:" It's really hard to get enough protein for me to feel satisfactorily full without meat. I eat a lot of eggs, black beans, tofu, and chickpeas, and am still often in that "full but not full" state. Having a big hunk of protein as the centerpiece of a meal is really nice as an occasional thing.
posted by miyabo at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
As to "why:" It's really hard to get enough protein for me to feel satisfactorily full without meat. I eat a lot of eggs, black beans, tofu, and chickpeas, and am still often in that "full but not full" state. Having a big hunk of protein as the centerpiece of a meal is really nice as an occasional thing.
posted by miyabo at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is timely! My HB starter kit is coming via FedEx tomorrow. I haven't been this excited to get food in the mail since my last order from Miyoko's Kitchen.
If you aren't down with meat, like I'm not down with pork...why are you shaping and flavoring the food to make it look more like meat?
I'm not vegan because I don't like the taste of meat -- I LOVE the taste of meat, I love it so much (or at least I did like a dozen years ago, I would for sure ralph if I ate it now). I'm also not vegan because I think vegan food is healthier or less processed or whatever. The only reason I'm vegan is because I think the industry and processes from which the overwhelming majority of meat is derived shock my conscience in such a way that I could not continue taking part in it and sleep soundly at night. With every ounce of sincerity I can muster: I could not live with myself if I ate meat or dairy. It just goes against everything I've ever believed in, and I'm fortunate enough to readily be able to buy, prep, and cook to the degree that my diet often requires. I also feel very fortunate to be able to thrive on a vegan diet because if a doctor was like, "Welp, you're either gonna have to eat meat or die," I would be like, "OK, so, about that..." But none of that means I didn't think meat tasted good.
I still want to eat steak as much as the next gal, but now my steaks are made of wheat gluten instead of dead animal. And I eat fresh fruits and veggies and beans and grains and legumes and quinoa and all that vegan shit like 85% of the time, but when I don't feel like doing an 8 AM Sunday mise en place so I can have a kale and red pepper tofu scramble for breakfast, and especially if I'm feeding hungry omnis, it's Smart Bacon and Field Roast breakfast sausage all the way.
Fellow vegans, I will raise a forkful of Porterhouse in your honor tomorrow.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2016 [40 favorites]
If you aren't down with meat, like I'm not down with pork...why are you shaping and flavoring the food to make it look more like meat?
I'm not vegan because I don't like the taste of meat -- I LOVE the taste of meat, I love it so much (or at least I did like a dozen years ago, I would for sure ralph if I ate it now). I'm also not vegan because I think vegan food is healthier or less processed or whatever. The only reason I'm vegan is because I think the industry and processes from which the overwhelming majority of meat is derived shock my conscience in such a way that I could not continue taking part in it and sleep soundly at night. With every ounce of sincerity I can muster: I could not live with myself if I ate meat or dairy. It just goes against everything I've ever believed in, and I'm fortunate enough to readily be able to buy, prep, and cook to the degree that my diet often requires. I also feel very fortunate to be able to thrive on a vegan diet because if a doctor was like, "Welp, you're either gonna have to eat meat or die," I would be like, "OK, so, about that..." But none of that means I didn't think meat tasted good.
I still want to eat steak as much as the next gal, but now my steaks are made of wheat gluten instead of dead animal. And I eat fresh fruits and veggies and beans and grains and legumes and quinoa and all that vegan shit like 85% of the time, but when I don't feel like doing an 8 AM Sunday mise en place so I can have a kale and red pepper tofu scramble for breakfast, and especially if I'm feeding hungry omnis, it's Smart Bacon and Field Roast breakfast sausage all the way.
Fellow vegans, I will raise a forkful of Porterhouse in your honor tomorrow.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2016 [40 favorites]
One of their goals is to hope to spread veganism by appealing to meat eaters.
It kind of seems like this is going to backfire.
I'm a die-hard meat eater but I'm perfectly happy not having meat in a meal as well. I eat plenty of dishes that I guess are vegan or at least vegetarian.
If someone were to serve me a dish and say "this is XYZ, and it just happens to be vegan" and I eat and enjoy that dish, I'll be fine. But if someone serves me the same thing and says "this tastes just like steak!" or "you can't even tell it's not real bacon!" and I eat it and I can tell, I'm probably not going to enjoy it as much as if it were not compared to actual steak or bacon.
And if there's one thing meat eaters love to do, it's point out how things that are supposed to taste like meat don't in any way compare to meat.
We occasionally make tacos with TVP instead of ground beef and they're very good, but if I were to serve them to someone I don't think I would try to compare them to beef or turkey tacos.
Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'm a rare (no pun intended) meat eater that way. I guess whatever works, works. I wish these businesses the best. I am all for tasty food in general, meat or no meat.
posted by bondcliff at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
It kind of seems like this is going to backfire.
I'm a die-hard meat eater but I'm perfectly happy not having meat in a meal as well. I eat plenty of dishes that I guess are vegan or at least vegetarian.
If someone were to serve me a dish and say "this is XYZ, and it just happens to be vegan" and I eat and enjoy that dish, I'll be fine. But if someone serves me the same thing and says "this tastes just like steak!" or "you can't even tell it's not real bacon!" and I eat it and I can tell, I'm probably not going to enjoy it as much as if it were not compared to actual steak or bacon.
And if there's one thing meat eaters love to do, it's point out how things that are supposed to taste like meat don't in any way compare to meat.
We occasionally make tacos with TVP instead of ground beef and they're very good, but if I were to serve them to someone I don't think I would try to compare them to beef or turkey tacos.
Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'm a rare (no pun intended) meat eater that way. I guess whatever works, works. I wish these businesses the best. I am all for tasty food in general, meat or no meat.
posted by bondcliff at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
More power to them. I wish their business success.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:18 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am very glad for fellow commenters because, as a WIP vegetarian, I didn't see the appeal of this place. I try to aim more for less processed foods, so this wasn't ticking my boxes. But I'm glad that this place exists and has customers to help support it.
posted by jillithd at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by jillithd at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2016
I was raised vegetarian, and meat has always squicked me out--I mean, it's made of body parts, ewwww. I often compare it to how the average American feels about eating bugs. But for some reason I really enjoy fake meat. I love Chinese Buddhist restaurants where the menu is exactly the same as regular Chinese restaurants but it's all cleverly fashioned out of gluten and soy. There's this chewy, substantial, umami sensibility in fake meat (and I presume real meat) that is hard to find in less-processed vegetables.
I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't eat fake meat. Most people who stop eating meat do it for ethical reasons, not because they dislike the experience of eating meat. So if they can still get some of that experience without the ethical quandaries, why wouldn't they?
posted by fermion at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't eat fake meat. Most people who stop eating meat do it for ethical reasons, not because they dislike the experience of eating meat. So if they can still get some of that experience without the ethical quandaries, why wouldn't they?
posted by fermion at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
If you aren't down with meat, like I'm not down with pork...why are you shaping and flavoring the food to make it look more like meat?
Meat is delicious, and the smell of a roast chicken never fails to make my mouth water. Just typing that sentence made my mouth water, in fact. I didn't stop eating meat because I don't like the taste, and I eagerly await the day that I can eat a vat-grown animal-death-free roast chicken.
posted by jesourie at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Meat is delicious, and the smell of a roast chicken never fails to make my mouth water. Just typing that sentence made my mouth water, in fact. I didn't stop eating meat because I don't like the taste, and I eagerly await the day that I can eat a vat-grown animal-death-free roast chicken.
posted by jesourie at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
I wish vegetarian jerky was more widely available.
Would love to try a fake steak some time, I've always had that on the list of things you probably can't do very satisfyingly but I'd love to try.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:24 AM on February 16, 2016
Would love to try a fake steak some time, I've always had that on the list of things you probably can't do very satisfyingly but I'd love to try.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:24 AM on February 16, 2016
But if someone serves me the same thing and says "this tastes just like steak!" or "you can't even tell it's not real bacon!" and I eat it and I can tell, I'm probably not going to enjoy it as much as if it were not compared to actual steak or bacon.
Yeah, people used to say that and I really don't know why because other than fake ground beef (and not always even that) I don't think this has ever been the case. I think that people are not saying that as much and are trying to get stuff to stand on it's own merits. Clearly I don't know ever vegetarian ever or speak for them, but I kind of get the vibe this was mostly wishful thinking and an attempt to woo meat-eaters with a little positive spin.
That said, the texture of beef vs chicken vs fish are known things, even to vegetarians, so it's a marketing shortcut to say "hey these chunks of soy and pea protein are kind of like chicken fingers!" when they're not that much like chicken fingers, but that's probably the closest thing to compare them to.
posted by GuyZero at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, people used to say that and I really don't know why because other than fake ground beef (and not always even that) I don't think this has ever been the case. I think that people are not saying that as much and are trying to get stuff to stand on it's own merits. Clearly I don't know ever vegetarian ever or speak for them, but I kind of get the vibe this was mostly wishful thinking and an attempt to woo meat-eaters with a little positive spin.
That said, the texture of beef vs chicken vs fish are known things, even to vegetarians, so it's a marketing shortcut to say "hey these chunks of soy and pea protein are kind of like chicken fingers!" when they're not that much like chicken fingers, but that's probably the closest thing to compare them to.
posted by GuyZero at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
bondcliff: They apparently have a dad just like you and he is a taste tester of their products.
Also, my short summary doesn't really do their work justice. You should go to their FAQ or About page or Google up interviews with them. They aren't trying to fool anyone. They are trying to make this appealing rather than lecture people, in essence. I think that is a very effective model. They believe this is good for our health, good for our ecosystem and they want it to be something people embrace enthusiastically because it just tastes so damn good. I think that beats the hell out of a lot of the lecture-y, scare-tactic ridden attempts I have seen by some people to try to get meat eaters to "convert" (or die, apparently).
posted by Michele in California at 11:26 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, my short summary doesn't really do their work justice. You should go to their FAQ or About page or Google up interviews with them. They aren't trying to fool anyone. They are trying to make this appealing rather than lecture people, in essence. I think that is a very effective model. They believe this is good for our health, good for our ecosystem and they want it to be something people embrace enthusiastically because it just tastes so damn good. I think that beats the hell out of a lot of the lecture-y, scare-tactic ridden attempts I have seen by some people to try to get meat eaters to "convert" (or die, apparently).
posted by Michele in California at 11:26 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've been a lifelong Muslim, and I have never eaten bacon or any other pork product (on purpose). I've never been interested in that. And when people have offered me "fakeon" or whatever, I've felt just as grossed out as if someone put a pork chop on my plate.
The food taboo around pork in Abrahamic faiths is specifically due to the uncleanness of the animal. I can think of at least two places in the Old Testament where pork is described as "unclean". The taboo about swine is culturally significant in many Muslim cultures; I remember a couple of little Bengali girls my sister was helping to learn English, getting very giggly and concerned when they came upon the warthogs at London Zoo. I recognise that Muslim cultures vary, but the idea of pork being disgusting is pretty ingrained for many Muslims.
Most vegetarians aren't vegetarian because of the uncleanness of animal flesh, but because of immorality of consuming it.
Different things are different, I guess?
posted by howfar at 11:28 AM on February 16, 2016
The food taboo around pork in Abrahamic faiths is specifically due to the uncleanness of the animal. I can think of at least two places in the Old Testament where pork is described as "unclean". The taboo about swine is culturally significant in many Muslim cultures; I remember a couple of little Bengali girls my sister was helping to learn English, getting very giggly and concerned when they came upon the warthogs at London Zoo. I recognise that Muslim cultures vary, but the idea of pork being disgusting is pretty ingrained for many Muslims.
Most vegetarians aren't vegetarian because of the uncleanness of animal flesh, but because of immorality of consuming it.
Different things are different, I guess?
posted by howfar at 11:28 AM on February 16, 2016
Mark me as another person who is excited for more meat-substitutes. I'm a terrible vegetarian, in that I only stopped eating beef, but still eat pork, chicken or fish each night for dinner. My wife is a thorough carnivore, and is happy to have a burger when we eat out.
But I think fewer people would eat meat if fake meats were closer to real meats. Why? Because meat is tasty, and that's a taste and texture most people don't want to give up. They're not super excited to be eating animals (many people are uncomfortable with butcher shops and meat processing), but it's not so abhorrent that they will stop.
That said, I also see the problem with trying to replicate meat - you have to get it right on, or you're lost in the uncanny valley of "this isn't right." Hand someone a tasty veggie patty and tell them it's a veggie patty, they will eat it with some expectation of taste, and probably won't be as disgusted or annoyed as if you gave them a veggie patty that looked like meat and told them it was a hamburger.
The most vivid experience I've had in the uncanny valley of taste was when I ate a date bar that looked like a chocolate chip cookie bar. It was the worst chocolate cookie bar I had ever eaten, because that's what I thought it was. I couldn't tell you how it was as a date bar, because I was so upset at being duped and I really wanted some chocolate at that point.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
But I think fewer people would eat meat if fake meats were closer to real meats. Why? Because meat is tasty, and that's a taste and texture most people don't want to give up. They're not super excited to be eating animals (many people are uncomfortable with butcher shops and meat processing), but it's not so abhorrent that they will stop.
That said, I also see the problem with trying to replicate meat - you have to get it right on, or you're lost in the uncanny valley of "this isn't right." Hand someone a tasty veggie patty and tell them it's a veggie patty, they will eat it with some expectation of taste, and probably won't be as disgusted or annoyed as if you gave them a veggie patty that looked like meat and told them it was a hamburger.
The most vivid experience I've had in the uncanny valley of taste was when I ate a date bar that looked like a chocolate chip cookie bar. It was the worst chocolate cookie bar I had ever eaten, because that's what I thought it was. I couldn't tell you how it was as a date bar, because I was so upset at being duped and I really wanted some chocolate at that point.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
In that way, I just can't understand why someone would want to turn their food into something they don't want to eat. If you aren't down with meat, like I'm not down with pork...why are you shaping and flavoring the food to make it look more like meat?
Here is what you do: Book a plane ticket to Pittsburgh. At the airport, take the 28X bus into downtown and then pick up the 87 or 88 for a ride to Penn Avenue at Winbiddie in Garfield. (You can also grab a ride share, but the cabs are terrible.) Walk over to the building catty corner from you, just past the empty park lot and the cool-looking wooden bench, the small brick place with the beat up sign saying SPAK BROTHERS. You'll know you're in the right spot if you can hear the pirate metal radio station playing and you're inside a pizza place. Go to the counter and get yourself a seitan pittsburgh cheesesteak with vegan mayo, plus a side of deep fried seitan wings. Wait. Maybe drink a ginger beer or play some pinball or read the mess of posters on the walls. When your food arrives eat it. And dang if that seitan won’t be juicier than the last roast beef sandwich you had, or those Seitan wings won't be wonderful nuggets of tender gluteny goodness.
Save half of the sandwich. It’s too much food for one meal.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Here is what you do: Book a plane ticket to Pittsburgh. At the airport, take the 28X bus into downtown and then pick up the 87 or 88 for a ride to Penn Avenue at Winbiddie in Garfield. (You can also grab a ride share, but the cabs are terrible.) Walk over to the building catty corner from you, just past the empty park lot and the cool-looking wooden bench, the small brick place with the beat up sign saying SPAK BROTHERS. You'll know you're in the right spot if you can hear the pirate metal radio station playing and you're inside a pizza place. Go to the counter and get yourself a seitan pittsburgh cheesesteak with vegan mayo, plus a side of deep fried seitan wings. Wait. Maybe drink a ginger beer or play some pinball or read the mess of posters on the walls. When your food arrives eat it. And dang if that seitan won’t be juicier than the last roast beef sandwich you had, or those Seitan wings won't be wonderful nuggets of tender gluteny goodness.
Save half of the sandwich. It’s too much food for one meal.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is America. We make a lot of things so that they look like something else, and act like something else, and we take pleasure in the artificiality, and we enjoy the new thing for its own characteristics and much as its ability to impersonate.
I don't know why it is so confusing when it comes to vegetarianism. You people drink vodka and call it martini, make ice cream flavored with bacon, swap out Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle as War Machine, listen to punk bands do covers of pop songs, play Rock Band on your Playstations, play Fantasy Football, and yet act perplexed when a vegetarian swaps out a vegetable-based umami patty for a meat-based umami patty?
posted by maxsparber at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
I don't know why it is so confusing when it comes to vegetarianism. You people drink vodka and call it martini, make ice cream flavored with bacon, swap out Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle as War Machine, listen to punk bands do covers of pop songs, play Rock Band on your Playstations, play Fantasy Football, and yet act perplexed when a vegetarian swaps out a vegetable-based umami patty for a meat-based umami patty?
posted by maxsparber at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
You people drink vodka and call it martini, make ice cream flavored with bacon, swap out Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle as War Machine, listen to punk bands do covers of pop songs, play Rock Band on your Playstations, play Fantasy Football, and yet act perplexed when a vegetarian swaps out a vegetable-based umami patty for a meat-based umami patty?
I do not do any of those things, particularly the first and the last.
I'm a happy omnivore, but I think I'll try this place.
posted by librosegretti at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2016
I do not do any of those things, particularly the first and the last.
I'm a happy omnivore, but I think I'll try this place.
posted by librosegretti at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2016
Its like taking a rolls royce and souping it up for a drag race to me. Its kinda a downgrade.
"Ninetey percent of everything is crap." I posted about this because these vegan butcher shops look like they might be in the 10% that isn't crap. :-)
posted by Michele in California at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Ninetey percent of everything is crap." I posted about this because these vegan butcher shops look like they might be in the 10% that isn't crap. :-)
posted by Michele in California at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
We're sending people to Pittsburgh for fake cheesesteaks? Oh no, not on my watch. Try one of these. I particularly like Monk's Cafe, try their house sour beer with it.
There have been times where I have went vegetarian (for a bit)...and I wasn't the least bit interested in eating non-meat items that had been processed like hamburgers and hot dogs.
I don't like tomatoes.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:36 AM on February 16, 2016
There have been times where I have went vegetarian (for a bit)...and I wasn't the least bit interested in eating non-meat items that had been processed like hamburgers and hot dogs.
I don't like tomatoes.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:36 AM on February 16, 2016
I wasn't the least bit interested in eating non-meat items that had been processed like hamburgers and hot dogs.
And I don't understand why people take advice from other people who have been dead for 2,000 years on whether or not to eat bacon, because bacon is amazing.
Different people like different things. Tibetan buddhists buy meat from Muslim butchers because they can't kill animals for food, but if someone else does it, well, it would be a waste to let the animal have died for nothing. People have all sorts of different odd attitudes about eating meat. You not getting it is not really an issue.
posted by GuyZero at 11:39 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
And I don't understand why people take advice from other people who have been dead for 2,000 years on whether or not to eat bacon, because bacon is amazing.
Different people like different things. Tibetan buddhists buy meat from Muslim butchers because they can't kill animals for food, but if someone else does it, well, it would be a waste to let the animal have died for nothing. People have all sorts of different odd attitudes about eating meat. You not getting it is not really an issue.
posted by GuyZero at 11:39 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
All of my love of seitan aside, I do rather wish that the place wasn’t calling itself a “butcher” shop. Nothing’s being butchered. They don’t need the affectation that they are. Just be, you know, the “Vegetarian Meat Store” or something, and style yourself for that. Embrace your difference, don’t kitsch it up.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I try to aim more for less processed foods, so this wasn't ticking my boxes. But I'm glad that this place exists and has customers to help support it.
This stuff is actually really good on the less processed front! Take a look at their nutritional info -- it's all regular pantry ingredients. I make stuff like this at home all the time with nothing more than wheat gluten, maybe some beans, some kind of liquid (broth, soy sauce, apple juice), and spices, kneaded together to form a dough and then steamed, baked, or simmered.
Here's a really good vegan sausage recipe that's very, very similar to what HB makes, nearly down to the letter, and Vegan Dad has great sausage and lunch meat recipes along the same lines.
The thing I'm most excited to tear into tomorrow is this gorgeous piece of work from HB. Louisville Vegan Jerky Co. owns my heart (bourbon smoked black pepper omg) but I am always in the market for MOAR JERKY.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
This stuff is actually really good on the less processed front! Take a look at their nutritional info -- it's all regular pantry ingredients. I make stuff like this at home all the time with nothing more than wheat gluten, maybe some beans, some kind of liquid (broth, soy sauce, apple juice), and spices, kneaded together to form a dough and then steamed, baked, or simmered.
Here's a really good vegan sausage recipe that's very, very similar to what HB makes, nearly down to the letter, and Vegan Dad has great sausage and lunch meat recipes along the same lines.
The thing I'm most excited to tear into tomorrow is this gorgeous piece of work from HB. Louisville Vegan Jerky Co. owns my heart (bourbon smoked black pepper omg) but I am always in the market for MOAR JERKY.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
You know where is NOT America and where they have an extensive and elaborate tradition of fairly realistic imitation meat and fish? China, that's where. You want your imitation chicken? Done and done. Imitation shrimp? Imitation fish meatballs for hot pot? Imitation pork strips for pork-in-the-style-of-fish? Also done, done and done. And on and on and on.
There's this irritating narrative that's all "oh, only Americans would do this dumb fake meat thing because they are gauche and gross", and it's really annoying.
Also, sometimes you just want something tasty and high-protein in a sandwich or with gravy or in a stir fry, and frankly unless you want to eat cheese or spoonfuls of peanut butter which are all unsatisfying in various applications, you get stuff like chickpea patties that are tasty but not that high in protein.
I personally will take all the delicious black pepper "beef" tofu jerky I can get from the local pan-Asian grocery place.
posted by Frowner at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
There's this irritating narrative that's all "oh, only Americans would do this dumb fake meat thing because they are gauche and gross", and it's really annoying.
Also, sometimes you just want something tasty and high-protein in a sandwich or with gravy or in a stir fry, and frankly unless you want to eat cheese or spoonfuls of peanut butter which are all unsatisfying in various applications, you get stuff like chickpea patties that are tasty but not that high in protein.
I personally will take all the delicious black pepper "beef" tofu jerky I can get from the local pan-Asian grocery place.
posted by Frowner at 11:40 AM on February 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
The Hegelian dialectic of veg(etari)anism:
Thesis: Vegetarianism as a subculture; meat is murder, save the Earth, don't defile the temple of your body eating corpses, &c., and a smug sense of superiority over the norms stuffing themselves with greasy burgers.
Antithesis: Carnicore/hipster carnivorism, and the backlash against a vegetarianism now partially accepted by the suburban bourgeoisie; being really into artisanal rare-breed steaks/exotic meat; food trucks selling takes on junk food made from expensive ingredients; pulled pork everywhere, and its nerd cousin: bacon as symbol of awesomeness
Synthesis: Vegan butcher shops. Also vegan sliders, vegan burger trucks, and probably vegan pulled pork soon enough.
posted by acb at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Thesis: Vegetarianism as a subculture; meat is murder, save the Earth, don't defile the temple of your body eating corpses, &c., and a smug sense of superiority over the norms stuffing themselves with greasy burgers.
Antithesis: Carnicore/hipster carnivorism, and the backlash against a vegetarianism now partially accepted by the suburban bourgeoisie; being really into artisanal rare-breed steaks/exotic meat; food trucks selling takes on junk food made from expensive ingredients; pulled pork everywhere, and its nerd cousin: bacon as symbol of awesomeness
Synthesis: Vegan butcher shops. Also vegan sliders, vegan burger trucks, and probably vegan pulled pork soon enough.
posted by acb at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
My current jam has been buying Phoney Baloney's coconut bacon and basically sprinkling it on everything, even things that really don't require it.
posted by Kitteh at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by Kitteh at 11:41 AM on February 16, 2016
Synthesis: Vegan butcher shops. Also vegan sliders, vegan burger trucks, and probably vegan pulled pork soon enough. now.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
probably vegan pulled pork soon enough
too late. have you not seen to jackfruit pulled "pork" at whole foods yet?
posted by GuyZero at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
too late. have you not seen to jackfruit pulled "pork" at whole foods yet?
posted by GuyZero at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Restaurant in Boston's chinatown advertises "vegetarian eel".
posted by sammyo at 11:44 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by sammyo at 11:44 AM on February 16, 2016
Basically, this is a Golden Age if you're vegan. The changes between what we can have/buy/eat now and just ten years ago is nuts!
posted by Kitteh at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:45 AM on February 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
sammyo: Restaurant in Boston's chinatown advertises "vegetarian eel".
Which one? I would *love* to try that.
posted by fader at 11:46 AM on February 16, 2016
Which one? I would *love* to try that.
posted by fader at 11:46 AM on February 16, 2016
There's this irritating narrative that's all "oh, only Americans would do this dumb fake meat thing because they are gauche and gross", and it's really annoying.
Yeah, pop by Loving Hut sometime - no meat and very definitely not American. I'm not sure what's up with the weird cult-like videos they play in there, but the notion of fake meat is definitely not just an American thing.
That said, I think modern food scientists have done a much better job than the old approach of blobs of boiled gluten covered in sauce.
posted by GuyZero at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, pop by Loving Hut sometime - no meat and very definitely not American. I'm not sure what's up with the weird cult-like videos they play in there, but the notion of fake meat is definitely not just an American thing.
That said, I think modern food scientists have done a much better job than the old approach of blobs of boiled gluten covered in sauce.
posted by GuyZero at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah, Soul Vegetarian in Chicago is veggie soul food and their "BBQ twists" sandwich is pulled pork-style heaven.
posted by misskaz at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by misskaz at 11:47 AM on February 16, 2016
Nothing’s being butchered.
To read this thread, apparently both good taste and the English language are being butchered.
posted by maxsparber at 11:48 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
To read this thread, apparently both good taste and the English language are being butchered.
posted by maxsparber at 11:48 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have only ever had Loving Hut food at a conference that was catered. It was really really good, IIRC.
I'd also love to give a quick shout-out to the TO MeFites who are really lovely about meeting up at veggie restaurants when I request a meet-up. I deeply deeply appreciate it.
(We need a meet-up do-over at Porter House.)
posted by Kitteh at 11:49 AM on February 16, 2016
I'd also love to give a quick shout-out to the TO MeFites who are really lovely about meeting up at veggie restaurants when I request a meet-up. I deeply deeply appreciate it.
(We need a meet-up do-over at Porter House.)
posted by Kitteh at 11:49 AM on February 16, 2016
I do rather wish that the place wasn’t calling itself a “butcher” shop
But it is butcher than your typical, non-butch vegan shops!
posted by explosion at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
But it is butcher than your typical, non-butch vegan shops!
posted by explosion at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
For Socal, it's hard to beat Southern Fried Vegan, if you can find them. Their faux fried chicken sandwiches are better than most real ones.
posted by zabuni at 11:52 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zabuni at 11:52 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
most Western fake-meat is fairly awful. the Morningstar corndogs get a pass because, even though the actual hotdog is terrible, just for childhood nostalgia - that, and you can easily make them in a regular toaster.
there is not a single retail fake-bacon out there that is remotely palatable. fake-sausage patties are better, esp. the maple-flavored ones.
living in Brooklyn, I could get truly amazing stuff from any corner convenience. mock duck with actually-crispy skin? oh, yes. or back before the old Veggie Castle closed, oxtail stew with actual fake bones.
Chinese fake-meats put everything to shame. these days, I wait and put together large orders at May Wah whenever they have good specials and/or coupons. the bacon that they (used to - they are looking for replacements for some reason) sell is so scarily realistic that I always have to wonder.
or whenever I'm in Boston and about to leave for home, put in a huge order at Sandwich 163 that will get consumed and shared with friends and frozen. (fader, 163 is definitely a place that has fake-eel on the menu, and I have actually seen it in their refrigerator-case - which I have always been so tempted but never tried, simply because their banh mi are beyond-amazing)
posted by dorian at 11:53 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
there is not a single retail fake-bacon out there that is remotely palatable. fake-sausage patties are better, esp. the maple-flavored ones.
living in Brooklyn, I could get truly amazing stuff from any corner convenience. mock duck with actually-crispy skin? oh, yes. or back before the old Veggie Castle closed, oxtail stew with actual fake bones.
Chinese fake-meats put everything to shame. these days, I wait and put together large orders at May Wah whenever they have good specials and/or coupons. the bacon that they (used to - they are looking for replacements for some reason) sell is so scarily realistic that I always have to wonder.
or whenever I'm in Boston and about to leave for home, put in a huge order at Sandwich 163 that will get consumed and shared with friends and frozen. (fader, 163 is definitely a place that has fake-eel on the menu, and I have actually seen it in their refrigerator-case - which I have always been so tempted but never tried, simply because their banh mi are beyond-amazing)
posted by dorian at 11:53 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Previously on Loving Hut, gets into some of the culty stuff.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:53 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Drinky Die at 11:53 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
have you not seen to jackfruit pulled "pork" at whole foods yet?
Hey, I'm not made of money, you know...
posted by acb at 11:55 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hey, I'm not made of money, you know...
posted by acb at 11:55 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
the only "butcher" I have been at is Underdog in Sunset, SF. they've been there for quite some time now, and they do a truly great job of various style sausage-links. I'd hope these other fake-butchers do similar justice to making their own non-retail products, and would be happy to give any a chance if I actually lived somewhere populated...
posted by dorian at 11:56 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dorian at 11:56 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Drinky Die, I have a serious love/hate for Loving Hut. the fake-meat is definitely in a strange other non-Chinese-traditional world of its own, and most of it is really quite good. the cult thing scares me. the fact they employ so many special-needs people makes me happy. but then scares me. the food makes me happy. but then scares me. it is a truly strange phenomenon all completely its own.
posted by dorian at 11:58 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by dorian at 11:58 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Basically, this is a Golden Age if you're vegan. The changes between what we can have/buy/eat now and just ten years ago is nuts!
Sing it! I am so happy at the grocery store now. Gardein was such a game-changer. But I remember when soy yogurt first came out (ewww), and when the only vegan cheeses were, I think, Tofutti and Follow Your Heart and that goddamn rice milk garbage (noooo), and I do not want to go back to those days no not ever.
If there are any other veg*n jerky fans in the house, please do check out this amazing shelf-stable meat substitute: Soy Curls, made from whole soybeans. Soak them in warm water with a few tablespoons of soy sauce and a dash of MSG or some Better Than Bouillon no-beef broth. Drain and squeeze out as much water as you can. Toss it in a bowl with your favorite spices and seasonings (teriyaki sauce is real good). Stick it in the oven at the lowest temperature it can go until it's reached a satisfactory texture. SO GOOD. Also BBQ: Soak, drain, squeeze, then fry it in a pan until it's all golden brown and crispy. Toss it in a bowl with a bunch of BBQ sauce and throw it on a cookie sheet under the broiler until it's all caramelized. Put it on a bun AND EAT IT FOREVER YEAH I LOVE VEGAN MEATS.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 12:00 PM on February 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Sing it! I am so happy at the grocery store now. Gardein was such a game-changer. But I remember when soy yogurt first came out (ewww), and when the only vegan cheeses were, I think, Tofutti and Follow Your Heart and that goddamn rice milk garbage (noooo), and I do not want to go back to those days no not ever.
If there are any other veg*n jerky fans in the house, please do check out this amazing shelf-stable meat substitute: Soy Curls, made from whole soybeans. Soak them in warm water with a few tablespoons of soy sauce and a dash of MSG or some Better Than Bouillon no-beef broth. Drain and squeeze out as much water as you can. Toss it in a bowl with your favorite spices and seasonings (teriyaki sauce is real good). Stick it in the oven at the lowest temperature it can go until it's reached a satisfactory texture. SO GOOD. Also BBQ: Soak, drain, squeeze, then fry it in a pan until it's all golden brown and crispy. Toss it in a bowl with a bunch of BBQ sauce and throw it on a cookie sheet under the broiler until it's all caramelized. Put it on a bun AND EAT IT FOREVER YEAH I LOVE VEGAN MEATS.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 12:00 PM on February 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Hey, I'm not made of money, you know...
Make yourself and shop at an Asian grocery and it's pretty cheap and delicious. I use this recipe.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:00 PM on February 16, 2016
Make yourself and shop at an Asian grocery and it's pretty cheap and delicious. I use this recipe.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:00 PM on February 16, 2016
You know where is NOT America and where they have an extensive and elaborate tradition of fairly realistic imitation meat and fish? China, that's where. You want your imitation chicken? Done and done. Imitation shrimp? Imitation fish meatballs for hot pot? Imitation pork strips for pork-in-the-style-of-fish? Also done, done and done. And on and on and on.
The conversation here hasn't actually made me want to go to the herbivorous butcher at all, but it has made me crave some Evergreen Chinese mock meat dishes like none other.
but they're closed on Tuesdays, harumph
posted by dinty_moore at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The conversation here hasn't actually made me want to go to the herbivorous butcher at all, but it has made me crave some Evergreen Chinese mock meat dishes like none other.
but they're closed on Tuesdays, harumph
posted by dinty_moore at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Meatless meat is an age-old buddhist tradition - at least I think it's age-old. Monasteries serve vegetarian roast-duck, roast-goose, wheat-gluten served sweet and sour style... they're all variations of dofu-curd, fried, marinated, simmered in some kind of sauce, and don't actually resemble meat at all, but they're #&%^$#& delicious.
Yeah, meat without the killing. So for it.
posted by Sallysings at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, meat without the killing. So for it.
posted by Sallysings at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
that goddamn rice milk garbage (noooo)
I love it when they advertise that the product melts and stretches! Like, great! This fake cheese meets two of the basic requirements for cheese! Great job!
I think I'd appreciate it more if the Vegan Butcher Store was actually "Deli where things look like other things." They could have cupcakes baked and frosted in waffle cones, and marzipan fruit.
posted by blnkfrnk at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I love it when they advertise that the product melts and stretches! Like, great! This fake cheese meets two of the basic requirements for cheese! Great job!
I think I'd appreciate it more if the Vegan Butcher Store was actually "Deli where things look like other things." They could have cupcakes baked and frosted in waffle cones, and marzipan fruit.
posted by blnkfrnk at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
there is not a single retail fake-bacon out there that is remotely palatable.
I don't understand why anyone finds this surprising. Bacon has a pretty singular texture and composition that isn't even replicated by other animals much less by man's attempts at playing God. Beef bacon? Not like bacon. Turkey bacon? Not within a million miles of bacon. And those are both made of meat!
posted by GuyZero at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't understand why anyone finds this surprising. Bacon has a pretty singular texture and composition that isn't even replicated by other animals much less by man's attempts at playing God. Beef bacon? Not like bacon. Turkey bacon? Not within a million miles of bacon. And those are both made of meat!
posted by GuyZero at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
In that way, I just can't understand why someone would want to turn their food into something they don't want to eat.
People are vegan typically for some combination of the following reasons:
Maybe eating meat substitutes is a little like watching taboo porn or entertaining kinky fantasies: you might not want to ever participate in that stuff for real, but pretending can be fun.
posted by pracowity at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
People are vegan typically for some combination of the following reasons:
- Raising animals for meat and dairy is cruel. (Eating meat and dairy is unethical.)
- Meat and dairy is bad for your health. (Eating meat and dairy is unwise.)
- Raising animals for meat and dairy is very bad for the environment compared to growing fruits and vegetables. (Eating meat and dairy is unethical and unwise.)
Maybe eating meat substitutes is a little like watching taboo porn or entertaining kinky fantasies: you might not want to ever participate in that stuff for real, but pretending can be fun.
posted by pracowity at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
What would be the market for a Carnivore Green Grocer store, that sold products that look and (sort of) taste like vegetables but are actually 100% made out of animal parts and milk products?
posted by signal at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by signal at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fake cheese is good if you're substituting for American cheese - if you can't eat dairy cheese and you yearn for a grilled cheese sandwich, I recommend it highly. I have had some of those "artisan" fake bries and stuff and while I really like a lot of fake meats, the fake cheeses are really, really not there yet. The fake brie did have this sort of mushroomy quality reminiscent of really cheap grocery-store brie, I grant you.
However, cashew spread "cheeses" are often very tasty in their own right. This is one instance where I really feel that calling a thing what it is helps - rosemary garlic cashew spread, for instance, sounds tasty, but "vegan goat cheese" does not inspire confidence. Cashew spreads made from raw cashews don't taste like roast cashews, and they really do have a very solid, fatty, creamy, rich flavor that makes them ideal as non-dairy replacements for cheese on crackers or spread on bread.
posted by Frowner at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
However, cashew spread "cheeses" are often very tasty in their own right. This is one instance where I really feel that calling a thing what it is helps - rosemary garlic cashew spread, for instance, sounds tasty, but "vegan goat cheese" does not inspire confidence. Cashew spreads made from raw cashews don't taste like roast cashews, and they really do have a very solid, fatty, creamy, rich flavor that makes them ideal as non-dairy replacements for cheese on crackers or spread on bread.
posted by Frowner at 12:12 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, the only good vegan gluten-free cake I've ever tasted was a very rich dark chocolate cake made with pulverized raw cashews.
posted by Frowner at 12:14 PM on February 16, 2016
posted by Frowner at 12:14 PM on February 16, 2016
Cashews are a vegan superstar. This pasta with lemon-cashew sauce is my go to dish when I'm trying to trick people into thinking I'm actually good at cooking.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:20 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 12:20 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Why does anyone eat celery in any form
This is a question to which I will never, ever know the answer.
posted by Faint of Butt
While not actually eponysterical, pure fiber might help with that.
posted by nevercalm at 12:21 PM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is a question to which I will never, ever know the answer.
posted by Faint of Butt
While not actually eponysterical, pure fiber might help with that.
posted by nevercalm at 12:21 PM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
If we're sending people to Pittsburgh for vegetarian meals (and the seitan wings at Spak Bros are truly delightful) might I suggest Yinzburgh BBQ where all the traditional barbecue sides are either vegan or vegetarian and they hot smoke blocks of tofu with the same rub they use on the meats? We did such a dance of joy when we found that place.
One thing we do mysteriously lack here, though, is vegetarian Chinese. That's the one cuisine I immediately seek out when traveling because it just does not exist in Pittsburgh. Total bummer. The mock general tso chicken I had in Philly was outstanding.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:23 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
One thing we do mysteriously lack here, though, is vegetarian Chinese. That's the one cuisine I immediately seek out when traveling because it just does not exist in Pittsburgh. Total bummer. The mock general tso chicken I had in Philly was outstanding.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:23 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Shepherd and I were so taken by soy curls that we ordered a HUGE amount from the supplier and well, we still have a ton of them after nearly two years.
I love them BBQ'd too but I also make a damn fine curry dish with them too.
posted by Kitteh at 12:26 PM on February 16, 2016
I love them BBQ'd too but I also make a damn fine curry dish with them too.
posted by Kitteh at 12:26 PM on February 16, 2016
The fake brie did have this sort of mushroomy quality reminiscent of really cheap grocery-store brie, I grant you.
Which one? I tried the Kite Hill one and while I'm never, ever going to stop eating real cheese, it was pretty good.
Now, if you're focusing on the distinction between OK brie and really high-end brie, sure, I guess so. But it was definitely in the ballpark of real brie.
posted by GuyZero at 12:28 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Which one? I tried the Kite Hill one and while I'm never, ever going to stop eating real cheese, it was pretty good.
Now, if you're focusing on the distinction between OK brie and really high-end brie, sure, I guess so. But it was definitely in the ballpark of real brie.
posted by GuyZero at 12:28 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I grew up in a household where we cooked traditional Chinese food and it's always it's weird to me how most people I know classify food
like, tofu/seitan = vegetarian/vegan food = liberal hippies while steak/bacon = popular and awesome food = successful d20 gender performativity roll. where, for me, all of that stuff is just normal food that you eat with your rice or your mantou
you see this attitude reflected in a lot of cooking, too. a lot of vegan/vegetarian recipes I've come across try to use seitan or tofu as a meat substitute instead of a thing in and of itself. this is wrong. there are Buddhist recipes specifically adapted for wheat gluten that mix it with a lot of other veggies. this is delicious. serving seitan by itself lathered in vegetarian gravy next to a plate of boiled greens is wrong. marinated wheat gluten with bamboo and peanuts served with a bowl of congee is excellent
posted by runt at 12:28 PM on February 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
like, tofu/seitan = vegetarian/vegan food = liberal hippies while steak/bacon = popular and awesome food = successful d20 gender performativity roll. where, for me, all of that stuff is just normal food that you eat with your rice or your mantou
you see this attitude reflected in a lot of cooking, too. a lot of vegan/vegetarian recipes I've come across try to use seitan or tofu as a meat substitute instead of a thing in and of itself. this is wrong. there are Buddhist recipes specifically adapted for wheat gluten that mix it with a lot of other veggies. this is delicious. serving seitan by itself lathered in vegetarian gravy next to a plate of boiled greens is wrong. marinated wheat gluten with bamboo and peanuts served with a bowl of congee is excellent
posted by runt at 12:28 PM on February 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
yeah the meatless thing is traditional, I think, because the buddhists wanted to convince young people to become monks but not have them entirely turned off by a vegetarian diet. so they became pretty danged good at it. that may be apocryphal, but this is the story I always heard.
GuyZero - I used to get short-plate when I lived in a Black Muslim neighborhood (and yeah before I was vegetarian lol) - and yeah, it is satisfying in its own way but yeah defs still not bacon. similarly turkey bacon (esp since it is so frequently processed-meat) - although fried slices of turkey spam used to be one of my favorite things ever.
this is the one I always bought and still have a bit left in the freezer. it doesn't dry out when cooking, like frozen retail junk does; it actually has true fatty streaks in it, unlike the disgusting retail ones that simply have like white printed stripes in it. it's unlike any fake version I have ever tried before.
I'm glad Artw mentioned Quorn, I meant to - that is basically one of my favoritest things ever - if you love below-average fast-food processed-chicken - aside from being breaded rather than battered, my niece and nephew really cannot tell the difference between that and Macca nuggets (and yes they have been informed so as not to be entirely cruel) - and the cutlet patty makes damn-near a standard mchicken. I can't get it in the local store for some absurd reason, nor even on spamazon - so I just get a boatload every time I go visit my niece.
I tried some pre-sliced vegan "american" cheese last month, simply because I do so about every other year, and also masochism. it was actually quite improved from previous years, but still not sure if edible.
on preview: no one should ever eat celery, ever.
posted by dorian at 12:28 PM on February 16, 2016
GuyZero - I used to get short-plate when I lived in a Black Muslim neighborhood (and yeah before I was vegetarian lol) - and yeah, it is satisfying in its own way but yeah defs still not bacon. similarly turkey bacon (esp since it is so frequently processed-meat) - although fried slices of turkey spam used to be one of my favorite things ever.
this is the one I always bought and still have a bit left in the freezer. it doesn't dry out when cooking, like frozen retail junk does; it actually has true fatty streaks in it, unlike the disgusting retail ones that simply have like white printed stripes in it. it's unlike any fake version I have ever tried before.
I'm glad Artw mentioned Quorn, I meant to - that is basically one of my favoritest things ever - if you love below-average fast-food processed-chicken - aside from being breaded rather than battered, my niece and nephew really cannot tell the difference between that and Macca nuggets (and yes they have been informed so as not to be entirely cruel) - and the cutlet patty makes damn-near a standard mchicken. I can't get it in the local store for some absurd reason, nor even on spamazon - so I just get a boatload every time I go visit my niece.
I tried some pre-sliced vegan "american" cheese last month, simply because I do so about every other year, and also masochism. it was actually quite improved from previous years, but still not sure if edible.
on preview: no one should ever eat celery, ever.
posted by dorian at 12:28 PM on February 16, 2016
I could really wish for more and better fake meat. It frustrates me, because some companies get it right -- my mother always has Morningstar Farms veggie sausage in the house, and they are delicious! Rich and meaty and the right texture. But I had veggie sausage the other day that was just awful. Dry, with a bitter taste, not good as an imitation sausage or as its own thing. And the fake-turkey I've had been thoroughly mediocre.
posted by tavella at 12:29 PM on February 16, 2016
posted by tavella at 12:29 PM on February 16, 2016
Since this seems to now be a thread about our favorite vegetarian/vegan places, I'll add in Veggie Galaxy in Cambridge, MA. It's also great proof that "vegan" doesn't have to mean "healthy" -- I've had meals that were delicious but as greasy and calorie-rich as any truck stop diner can provide.
Slightly more on topic, I'm personally thrilled to see this trend growing. I'm a vegetarian rather than a vegan, but I've been eating more and more vegan meals as the options become more widely available. While I don't eat fake meat all the time, sometimes it's nice to have a comfort food from my past without compromising my current values.
I think of it a bit like playing violent video games. I certainly don't want to harm anyone in real life but it can sometimes be cathartic to throw Halo 3 in and shoot some aliens into piles of green goo.
posted by fader at 12:30 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Slightly more on topic, I'm personally thrilled to see this trend growing. I'm a vegetarian rather than a vegan, but I've been eating more and more vegan meals as the options become more widely available. While I don't eat fake meat all the time, sometimes it's nice to have a comfort food from my past without compromising my current values.
I think of it a bit like playing violent video games. I certainly don't want to harm anyone in real life but it can sometimes be cathartic to throw Halo 3 in and shoot some aliens into piles of green goo.
posted by fader at 12:30 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
There have been times where I have went vegetarian (for a bit)...and I wasn't the least bit interested in eating non-meat items that had been processed like hamburgers and hot dogs.
I stopped eating meat and a lot of dairy because I don't like the flavor and texture, so I kind of get this. The one meat replacement item I do eat, though, is a veggie dog from the local hot dog place. I did find I missed eating something in a bun with mustard (and sauerkraut), and that really gives me a similar (but even better!) experience.
posted by JenMarie at 12:31 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I stopped eating meat and a lot of dairy because I don't like the flavor and texture, so I kind of get this. The one meat replacement item I do eat, though, is a veggie dog from the local hot dog place. I did find I missed eating something in a bun with mustard (and sauerkraut), and that really gives me a similar (but even better!) experience.
posted by JenMarie at 12:31 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Which one? I tried the Kite Hill one and while I'm never, ever going to stop eating real cheese, it was pretty good.
I'm afraid it was the Kite Hill one - I recognize the packaging. Rubbery, with a mushroom note to start and a really strange aftertaste. It did taste recognizably like brie. I don't know - maybe I just got a bad batch.
posted by Frowner at 12:36 PM on February 16, 2016
I'm afraid it was the Kite Hill one - I recognize the packaging. Rubbery, with a mushroom note to start and a really strange aftertaste. It did taste recognizably like brie. I don't know - maybe I just got a bad batch.
posted by Frowner at 12:36 PM on February 16, 2016
tavella: I could really wish for more and better fake meat. It frustrates me, because some companies get it right
I echo this a thousand times with places that aren't really vegetarian places but include a couple of token veggie options. I mean, on the one hand, I really appreciate places stocking the frozen veggie burger so that I can hang out with my friends and eat something like what they're having. But on the other hand, I often think they don't taste them before deciding on what to stock. Some veggie burgers are absolutely wonderful, but I've had way too many that I have to look to be sure the kitchen didn't accidentally put the cardboard box in a bun.
Every time I write a company to tell them this, I end up wimping out at the last moment and just thanking them for thinking of me at all rather than pointing them at why I subtly try to steer my friends somewhere else for dinner. So maybe I'm part of the problem here.
posted by fader at 12:37 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I echo this a thousand times with places that aren't really vegetarian places but include a couple of token veggie options. I mean, on the one hand, I really appreciate places stocking the frozen veggie burger so that I can hang out with my friends and eat something like what they're having. But on the other hand, I often think they don't taste them before deciding on what to stock. Some veggie burgers are absolutely wonderful, but I've had way too many that I have to look to be sure the kitchen didn't accidentally put the cardboard box in a bun.
Every time I write a company to tell them this, I end up wimping out at the last moment and just thanking them for thinking of me at all rather than pointing them at why I subtly try to steer my friends somewhere else for dinner. So maybe I'm part of the problem here.
posted by fader at 12:37 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
My veggie faux meat faves are Field Roast for sausages and their holiday roast (it beats Tofurky's pants off but really that's a low bar); Gardein for chicken tenders; this Montreal Asian veggie meat grocer for mock duck, spicy nuggets, and jerky.
posted by Kitteh at 12:38 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 12:38 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I did find I missed eating something in a bun with mustard (and sauerkraut), and that really gives me a similar (but even better!) experience.
.this.
your words are a wonderful nuance.
when in SF I *LOVED* going to in-n-out and get the "grilled cheese" with all of the toppings because that wasn't simply some cheese melt, it was over the top with everything we like to have on our sandwich. (and yes also because I was going to get fries, shut up.)
or why in summer days I used to love to have a not-dog because my partner and I had prepared and cut up all the toppings and dressings, and that is really the best way to enjoy a hotdog or not-dog.
posted by dorian at 12:40 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
.this.
your words are a wonderful nuance.
when in SF I *LOVED* going to in-n-out and get the "grilled cheese" with all of the toppings because that wasn't simply some cheese melt, it was over the top with everything we like to have on our sandwich. (and yes also because I was going to get fries, shut up.)
or why in summer days I used to love to have a not-dog because my partner and I had prepared and cut up all the toppings and dressings, and that is really the best way to enjoy a hotdog or not-dog.
posted by dorian at 12:40 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, if we are talking faux breakfast meats, I find only sausage patties are the best. The bacon and sausage link versions are rubbery & weird.
posted by Kitteh at 12:42 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:42 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can no longer honestly call myself a vegetarian because I do eat some meat, but I still "identify" as a vegetarian, and I actually eat very little meat at all. If given the choice between real meat and fake meat, I'll often go for the fake kind. It doesn't taste the same, no, but I know that I'm not going to have to deal with fat or gristle or any of the other stuff about meat that, personally, grosses me out. That peace of mind is, for me, worth the trade-off of authentic meatmeatmeat flavor.
So, I don't crave meat very often, and when I do, the fake kind frequently satisfies that craving. But it's usually not because I'm craving the actual meat. When I'm I'm craving "barbecue," often I'm just craving something slathered in barbecue sauce. When I'm craving a roast something-or-other, it's usually because I want to eat something drowning in gravy. In the end, I'm usually really craving the overall flavor of/experience of a dish, not the meat. I mean, I don't love tofu, and it's really hard to justify pouring barbecue sauce over vegetables.
I'm eating Field Roast baked with barbecue sauce for lunch right now. Does it taste like good brisket from Texas? No. But it's chewy, and it's protein, and it's a vehicle for barbecue sauce, and I am totally satisfied.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:47 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
So, I don't crave meat very often, and when I do, the fake kind frequently satisfies that craving. But it's usually not because I'm craving the actual meat. When I'm I'm craving "barbecue," often I'm just craving something slathered in barbecue sauce. When I'm craving a roast something-or-other, it's usually because I want to eat something drowning in gravy. In the end, I'm usually really craving the overall flavor of/experience of a dish, not the meat. I mean, I don't love tofu, and it's really hard to justify pouring barbecue sauce over vegetables.
I'm eating Field Roast baked with barbecue sauce for lunch right now. Does it taste like good brisket from Texas? No. But it's chewy, and it's protein, and it's a vehicle for barbecue sauce, and I am totally satisfied.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:47 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
You know where is NOT America and where they have an extensive and elaborate tradition of fairly realistic imitation meat and fish? China, that's where. You want your imitation chicken? Done and done. Imitation shrimp? Imitation fish meatballs for hot pot? Imitation pork strips for pork-in-the-style-of-fish? Also done, done and done. And on and on and on.
well, there's also centuries of Mahayana Buddhism teaching in China along with a significant Buddhist population. the cooking is a little better and people are way way way less attached to the idea of things having to be in the shape, texture, and flavor of meat.
I think modern trends of adopting 'meaty' versions of foods is more an economics thing than a cultural thing (cheaper in bulk, also keeps way way way longer) though, like I said above, I doubt most Chinese people have the same icked out factor about seitan that most USians do. there might also be an aspect of novelty to it like with the vegan lobster thing I saw at a Chinese grocery recently that was in the shape and color of a shelled lobster
posted by runt at 12:49 PM on February 16, 2016
well, there's also centuries of Mahayana Buddhism teaching in China along with a significant Buddhist population. the cooking is a little better and people are way way way less attached to the idea of things having to be in the shape, texture, and flavor of meat.
I think modern trends of adopting 'meaty' versions of foods is more an economics thing than a cultural thing (cheaper in bulk, also keeps way way way longer) though, like I said above, I doubt most Chinese people have the same icked out factor about seitan that most USians do. there might also be an aspect of novelty to it like with the vegan lobster thing I saw at a Chinese grocery recently that was in the shape and color of a shelled lobster
posted by runt at 12:49 PM on February 16, 2016
I am back--I just zipped over to the Herbivorous Butcher to check it out (only about 15 minutes away).
It's a nice shop--the door handles are made from cleavers--and clean, etc inside, with friendly staff. I saw the owners in the back consulting earnestly over what looked like works in progress, with canisters of powder and trial experiments. I sampled a few things and bought some cajun jerky.
My take on it: the products don't look quite like meat--they have more granular texture; the mouthfeel is also different, less resistant. Neither of these is a criticism--they aren't meat and don't mimic it exactly.
The taste is distinguishable also--but quite tasty and I would say in the "meat taste" zone.
The cajun jerky was very tasty indeed.
posted by librosegretti at 12:54 PM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's a nice shop--the door handles are made from cleavers--and clean, etc inside, with friendly staff. I saw the owners in the back consulting earnestly over what looked like works in progress, with canisters of powder and trial experiments. I sampled a few things and bought some cajun jerky.
My take on it: the products don't look quite like meat--they have more granular texture; the mouthfeel is also different, less resistant. Neither of these is a criticism--they aren't meat and don't mimic it exactly.
The taste is distinguishable also--but quite tasty and I would say in the "meat taste" zone.
The cajun jerky was very tasty indeed.
posted by librosegretti at 12:54 PM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
runt, I think that while Chinese Buddhists may be less attached to the "shape, flavor and texture" of meat, Chinese food preparers do a better job of actually emulating that shape, flavor and texture. The chicken tastes like (white meat) chicken. The duck actually tastes a lot like duck. They layer the tofu to simulate the layers of meat, and so on.
posted by me & my monkey at 1:05 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by me & my monkey at 1:05 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
fader: my solution for eating with vegetarians (and it's recently become an issue) has become the southern Indian restaurant that opened near me recently. Best vegetarian cusine in the world IMHO, and I can eat there every week without getting bored.
posted by tavella at 1:09 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tavella at 1:09 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think that while Chinese Buddhists may be less attached to the "shape, flavor and texture" of meat, Chinese food preparers do a better job of actually emulating that shape, flavor and texture. The chicken tastes like (white meat) chicken. The duck actually tastes a lot like duck. They layer the tofu to simulate the layers of meat, and so on.
Of course, there's always the the pork buns with cardboard filling ...
posted by Melismata at 1:16 PM on February 16, 2016
Of course, there's always the the pork buns with cardboard filling ...
posted by Melismata at 1:16 PM on February 16, 2016
sure, there's a lot of stuff that my food scientist friend went bananas over when we walked down the frozen imitation meat section. there are a lot of Chinese dishes that taste better vegetarian than they do with meat but I don't think normal people are selecting substitutes unless you're worried about quality control, freshness, or price or you happen to be Buddhist. most of the things that Frowner listed that came in imitation form were originally a meat product. like, the reason for imitation crab meat isn't that people wanted to eat pulverized fish flavored like crab, it's that the demand for real crab outstripped supply and so you get a cheaper and easily produced version of it
my gut feeling is that the demand for imitation meat in China is driven by something other than cultural forces like it is here in the US. protein is protein. you don't have to code switch every time you order a traditional meat dish with tofu when you eat Chinese (or vice versa) whereas me asking for an egg in my vegan sandwich at a local coffee/food joint near me produced quite a bit of contempt from the person who was taking my order
posted by runt at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
my gut feeling is that the demand for imitation meat in China is driven by something other than cultural forces like it is here in the US. protein is protein. you don't have to code switch every time you order a traditional meat dish with tofu when you eat Chinese (or vice versa) whereas me asking for an egg in my vegan sandwich at a local coffee/food joint near me produced quite a bit of contempt from the person who was taking my order
posted by runt at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've had a similar shift of opinion, MoonOrb. I think I was against fake meats because (a) it encourages the sort of misconception and faint derision you see to some extent even in this thread, (b) I was worried that it would serve to maintain the normalisation of eating actual meat, and (c) I personally disliked the taste and artificial ingredients of many fake meats. But there are many excellent reasons to champion increased offerings of fake meat, from simple variety in meal choice, to aiding transition to the vegan diet, to helping serve omni friends and family.
The first two complaints I held against fake meat were largely superficial, and recently addressing the third is a local vegan butcher which serves fake meat that is incredibly tasty and healthy. Their small goods are legit enough that my housemate's German mother was impressed with their sausages. I'm now someone who is keen to showcase (good) fake meat next time there's a family barbecue, which I didn't think would happen.
posted by nagemi at 1:25 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The first two complaints I held against fake meat were largely superficial, and recently addressing the third is a local vegan butcher which serves fake meat that is incredibly tasty and healthy. Their small goods are legit enough that my housemate's German mother was impressed with their sausages. I'm now someone who is keen to showcase (good) fake meat next time there's a family barbecue, which I didn't think would happen.
posted by nagemi at 1:25 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I remember back when I was a vegetarian (1973 to 1983) someone was giving out free samples of fake bologna and I thought: jeez, I became a vegetarian to get away from baloney.
Now I happen to eat everything but I stay away from the awful factory meat if possible...if anybody really cares what I eat and why...I'm sure nobody does, but, as is usual with these threads, we can't help but telling the world what we eat (and how we wipe our butts).
I'll tell you what I'd really like to see, though, if you're up for a challenge, you vegan butchers: vegan head cheese.
posted by kozad at 1:29 PM on February 16, 2016
Now I happen to eat everything but I stay away from the awful factory meat if possible...if anybody really cares what I eat and why...I'm sure nobody does, but, as is usual with these threads, we can't help but telling the world what we eat (and how we wipe our butts).
I'll tell you what I'd really like to see, though, if you're up for a challenge, you vegan butchers: vegan head cheese.
posted by kozad at 1:29 PM on February 16, 2016
I wish vegetarian jerky was more widely available.
I like to carry Primal Strips in my backpack as a rescue food in case I get hangry and need need a protein-based pick-me-up.
posted by larrybob at 1:45 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I like to carry Primal Strips in my backpack as a rescue food in case I get hangry and need need a protein-based pick-me-up.
posted by larrybob at 1:45 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Berkeley's getting its own vegan butcher shop in less than a week! The Butcher's Son opens on February 22. I'm excited. Their mozzarella is lovely. This has been a great couple of years for vegan meats and cheese. So many options, many of which are tasty on their own.
I'm happy to see a lot of comments pushing back on the "if you don't eat meat, why bother with fake meat?" stuff. Even the stuff that's genuine curiosity gets tiresome. I'm all for more options and people engaging flavors. This can be done with really well roasted veggies, fermented goodness, or fake meat. I'm happy to try things that taste good. What doesn't taste good is sanctimonious lecturing from people who like "real" and "authentic" food. I mean, if there's going to be a morality competition with food, isn't veganism more humane all around? Not that I usually engage in these arguments, but it seems like people like to start them.
posted by kendrak at 2:14 PM on February 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm happy to see a lot of comments pushing back on the "if you don't eat meat, why bother with fake meat?" stuff. Even the stuff that's genuine curiosity gets tiresome. I'm all for more options and people engaging flavors. This can be done with really well roasted veggies, fermented goodness, or fake meat. I'm happy to try things that taste good. What doesn't taste good is sanctimonious lecturing from people who like "real" and "authentic" food. I mean, if there's going to be a morality competition with food, isn't veganism more humane all around? Not that I usually engage in these arguments, but it seems like people like to start them.
posted by kendrak at 2:14 PM on February 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Ooooh, I drive past this on the way home. Maybe I'll stop in, if I can find parking.
posted by triggerfinger at 2:15 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 2:15 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
OMG, larrybob, I loooove Primal Strips but nowhere near me sells them so sad vegan tears.
posted by Kitteh at 2:16 PM on February 16, 2016
posted by Kitteh at 2:16 PM on February 16, 2016
Maybe I'll stop in, if I can find parking.
For their much anticipated grand opening, they put together a list of local parking options.
Let them know we all said "hi"! :-)
posted by Michele in California at 2:22 PM on February 16, 2016
For their much anticipated grand opening, they put together a list of local parking options.
Let them know we all said "hi"! :-)
posted by Michele in California at 2:22 PM on February 16, 2016
I am loving this era of vegan options and have so much hope for the future! My kid has a medical condition that requires a low-protein diet, and while most of these meat substitutes are still too high in protein for everyday eating, maybe he'll get to try them every once in a while. I'm particularly excited about fake eggs for when he reaches ravenous teenager stage. I can get vegan, dairy-free frozen pizzas in half a dozen varieties at any neighborhood coop or Whole Foods, which is fantastic.
Minneapolis is killing it lately in hipster vegan food options - an ice cream joint with tons of vegan and dairy-free ice cream flavors opened recently in Uptown, and I am SO PUMPED FOR MY KID.
posted by Maarika at 2:45 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Minneapolis is killing it lately in hipster vegan food options - an ice cream joint with tons of vegan and dairy-free ice cream flavors opened recently in Uptown, and I am SO PUMPED FOR MY KID.
posted by Maarika at 2:45 PM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
In the phrase "Vegan butcher shop," the first word can be most easily parsed as a synonym for "Not a."
I have a lifelong negative reaction to things pretending to be other things. Veneer on particleboard bugs me. Regular leather embossed to look like fancier hide is ridiculous to me. That carries over to most "veggie meat" products. I'm not a veggie or a vegan, but I've certainly made and consumed no small number of meatless meals. It can be done well without resorting to something that is explicitly pretending to be beef or chicken or whatever; I don't get why you wouldn't just go that route, but I also get that my quirks are not universal.
(My weirdo reaction doesn't extend to sausages, fwiw; those are already amalgams of stuff. Veggie versions just use other stuff. Seems reasonable to whatever weird little demon in my brain tells me these things.)
posted by uberchet at 2:47 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have a lifelong negative reaction to things pretending to be other things. Veneer on particleboard bugs me. Regular leather embossed to look like fancier hide is ridiculous to me. That carries over to most "veggie meat" products. I'm not a veggie or a vegan, but I've certainly made and consumed no small number of meatless meals. It can be done well without resorting to something that is explicitly pretending to be beef or chicken or whatever; I don't get why you wouldn't just go that route, but I also get that my quirks are not universal.
(My weirdo reaction doesn't extend to sausages, fwiw; those are already amalgams of stuff. Veggie versions just use other stuff. Seems reasonable to whatever weird little demon in my brain tells me these things.)
posted by uberchet at 2:47 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Walk over to the building catty corner from you, just past the empty park lot and the cool-looking wooden bench, the small brick place with the beat up sign saying SPAK BROTHERS.
My ex-coworker used to get the seitan sub from Spak whenever we ordered from there but it never actually occurred to me that they were good. I just figured that it was the only thing he could order and it didn't matter how it tasted. I may have to try it now.
posted by octothorpe at 4:36 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
My ex-coworker used to get the seitan sub from Spak whenever we ordered from there but it never actually occurred to me that they were good. I just figured that it was the only thing he could order and it didn't matter how it tasted. I may have to try it now.
posted by octothorpe at 4:36 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hal_c_on-I'm another vegetarian who is vegetarian primarily for environmental reasons, secondarily for animal rights issues. The issue was never that I didn't enjoy eating meat, it's that I didn't feel I could do so ethically. Getting to enjoy some of the foods I used to is nice.
In fact, I am hoping I'll be able to try some of their products! Pepperoni pizza was always a favorite of mine, and no veggie pepperoni I've tried comes close to the real thing.
amnesia and magnets-Would you be willing to come back to this thread tomorrow and post a review of that vegan porterhouse, by chance?
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 4:39 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
In fact, I am hoping I'll be able to try some of their products! Pepperoni pizza was always a favorite of mine, and no veggie pepperoni I've tried comes close to the real thing.
amnesia and magnets-Would you be willing to come back to this thread tomorrow and post a review of that vegan porterhouse, by chance?
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 4:39 PM on February 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I am always astounded by the number of people who assume I am either 1) extraordinarily disciplined or 2) extraordinarily depressed because I don't eat meat. I assure them that I am neither. I just don't like meat*. It's yuck. I don't want real meat and I sure as hell don't want fake meat. But I also really and truly don't care if you eat it. Chow down.
*Disclaimer: Does not apply to authentic, 100% Prosciutto di Parma, which I will eat by the pound.
posted by pjsky at 8:15 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
*Disclaimer: Does not apply to authentic, 100% Prosciutto di Parma, which I will eat by the pound.
posted by pjsky at 8:15 PM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I only eat ground beef, in wee fistfuls.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:39 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 8:39 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
What we need is a place that sells vegetable shaped meat.
posted by Carbolic at 8:41 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Carbolic at 8:41 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've often wondered why vegan food producers don't aim at the Kosher market. Most vegan foods are inherently kosher, and would only need the imprimatur of some kosher supervising agency to be welcomed by Jews who want to cook a cheesesteak (e.g.) without making their kitchen treif. There are other good reasons too. Coincidentally, in The Tablet today:
Life After Brisket
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:04 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Life After Brisket
Veganism in Israel is taking hold among the Orthodox, who use textual sources to argue against all meat consumptionSo there you go.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:04 PM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thanks for your response. I hope you eat bacon everyday.
heh. Sorry for being a jerk, hal. My point, such as it is, is that you probably also have some dietary idiosyncrasy that someone else finds as odd as you find eating fake meat. And I really am not trying to be a jerk when I say you don't really have to get it. A Muslim friend of mine came over with his family for a summer BBQ one time and he asked me to go to a halal butcher to get the chicken. So I went to the halal butcher. Which seemed like a regular butcher with more beards. I really don't get it. But he's my friend, he asked, I know it's a religious thing and I really don't have to get it. Am I going to slip the guy haram chicken? No. Am I really going to try to convince him there's zero difference between the halal place and the non-halal place? No.
Anyway, sorry for getting fighty about it.
posted by GuyZero at 11:08 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
heh. Sorry for being a jerk, hal. My point, such as it is, is that you probably also have some dietary idiosyncrasy that someone else finds as odd as you find eating fake meat. And I really am not trying to be a jerk when I say you don't really have to get it. A Muslim friend of mine came over with his family for a summer BBQ one time and he asked me to go to a halal butcher to get the chicken. So I went to the halal butcher. Which seemed like a regular butcher with more beards. I really don't get it. But he's my friend, he asked, I know it's a religious thing and I really don't have to get it. Am I going to slip the guy haram chicken? No. Am I really going to try to convince him there's zero difference between the halal place and the non-halal place? No.
Anyway, sorry for getting fighty about it.
posted by GuyZero at 11:08 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh man, in a hundred years once vegan butcher shops add newly developed religions to the equation there are gonna be some really bad vegan flame wars.
DO NOT MIX GLUTEN WITH NOOCH, UNCLEAN!
NEVER SERVE ALMOND MILK MIXED WITH CASHEW MILK, BLASPHEMY!
posted by Drinky Die at 2:43 AM on February 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
DO NOT MIX GLUTEN WITH NOOCH, UNCLEAN!
NEVER SERVE ALMOND MILK MIXED WITH CASHEW MILK, BLASPHEMY!
posted by Drinky Die at 2:43 AM on February 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
This reminds me that I need to resume my development of a delicious vegetarian scrapple, a project that had made substantial progress in my fits-and-starts periods of ovo-lacto vegetarianism. The ultimate failing was that it was a food with a microscopic audience, because vegetarians didn't want to have a thing to do with it, and scrappleologists didn't either, so my intense scholarship and experimental cookery was pleasing only to me.
I got pretty damn close, though. Oddly, using similar techniques to make a vegetarian goetta were even more successful, but goetta purists scowl at both my regular goetta and my veg goetta.
posted by sonascope at 5:07 AM on February 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I got pretty damn close, though. Oddly, using similar techniques to make a vegetarian goetta were even more successful, but goetta purists scowl at both my regular goetta and my veg goetta.
posted by sonascope at 5:07 AM on February 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
But the chicken is either Zabiha or non-Zabiha.
When I said I didn't get it I didn't mean it quite this literally. damnit.
posted by GuyZero at 10:19 AM on February 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
When I said I didn't get it I didn't mean it quite this literally. damnit.
posted by GuyZero at 10:19 AM on February 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: in a hundred years, vegan butcher shops add newly developed religions.
(the sad/scary/awesome/hilarious thing is how entirely possible this is)
posted by dorian at 4:43 PM on February 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
(the sad/scary/awesome/hilarious thing is how entirely possible this is)
posted by dorian at 4:43 PM on February 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
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