After Thirty Years of Guilt - "My Burden Has Been Reduced"
February 25, 2016 3:47 PM Subscribe
Last month NPR reported a story about Bob Ebeling, one of the NASA engineers who tried, and failed, to stop the Challenger launch thirty years ago. His guilt and depression touched the hearts of many listeners, who wrote Mr. Ebeling, telling him he did all he could and wasn't to blame. Those letters have finally helped him move past the guilt.
They do mention Robert Lund, Thiokol's then VP of engineering, in the second article. He sounds pretty guilt-ridden, but would not consent to be recorded. At least he called Ebeling after the first article was released.
posted by blurker at 3:59 PM on February 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by blurker at 3:59 PM on February 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was completely unaware of this aspect to what happened.
That poor man. I am deeply happy he has finally found some peace.
posted by Windigo at 4:03 PM on February 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
That poor man. I am deeply happy he has finally found some peace.
posted by Windigo at 4:03 PM on February 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm really not surprised at the amount of guilt these engineers still suffer. My entire department (materials engineers) were beside themselves knowing that it was a materials issue and they (we) weren't even directly involved. I still tear up thinking about the damned O-rings.
posted by blurker at 4:07 PM on February 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by blurker at 4:07 PM on February 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
It's good that he got relief from the guilt. It wasn't his fault.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:40 PM on February 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:40 PM on February 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
the burdens we carry are so enormous and sometimes what we need is time, reflection, and permission to put them down.
posted by nadawi at 5:09 PM on February 25, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 5:09 PM on February 25, 2016 [34 favorites]
I had heard about the O-rings, but I never realized that people *knew* those O-rings were going to have the problem. Every damned person who knew and had the authority to stop the launch but didn't should have been charged with manslaughter. Not this guy, this guy did what he could and made the right waves. But the people who ignored him, jesus christ. I hope they feel nothing but crippling guilt.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:39 PM on February 25, 2016
posted by jacquilynne at 5:39 PM on February 25, 2016
I met him.
It was about 15 years after STS-51-L. He was still hurting, but he told me it doesn't matter, if it's important, don't stop arguing. He was kicking himself because he thought he had. I didn't think he had, but he did.
I'm glad he found peace. Because unlike many, he tried, and if NASA hadn't been ignoring it's own rules, he wouldn't have need to try. He was clearly torn up at that time.
It sucks to be right and ignored. I've dealt with that -- but nothing like he had to.
posted by eriko at 5:52 PM on February 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
It was about 15 years after STS-51-L. He was still hurting, but he told me it doesn't matter, if it's important, don't stop arguing. He was kicking himself because he thought he had. I didn't think he had, but he did.
I'm glad he found peace. Because unlike many, he tried, and if NASA hadn't been ignoring it's own rules, he wouldn't have need to try. He was clearly torn up at that time.
It sucks to be right and ignored. I've dealt with that -- but nothing like he had to.
posted by eriko at 5:52 PM on February 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
This reminds me of something I read about Dragonfly in Amber--specifically the plot that Claire and Jamie are trying to head off Culloden. I think Diana Gabaldon said something like they only have as much ability to stop something as any one person would have in that situation. If everyone else is working against those aims, then there really isn't shit you can do. Same thing here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:55 PM on February 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:55 PM on February 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of my engineering professors back in '06 suggested that an engineer in this situation would still have blood on their hands - and part of me agrees with this - as awful as the situation was.
He was certain of the o-ring issue and the disaster that would result. Is there something he could have done to stop the launch? Could he not have gone over his superiors heads? When lives are on the line?
I'm glad he's finding some relief - what an extraordinarily awful, tragic event.
posted by alrightokay at 6:21 PM on February 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
He was certain of the o-ring issue and the disaster that would result. Is there something he could have done to stop the launch? Could he not have gone over his superiors heads? When lives are on the line?
I'm glad he's finding some relief - what an extraordinarily awful, tragic event.
posted by alrightokay at 6:21 PM on February 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ebeling *did* do something, according to the article -- he was the first one to raise the alarm that the O-rings were a problem.
Ebeling called his boss at the Kennedy Space Center, where the boss was Thiokol's representative at the launch, and his boss became the leader of the effort to try to get the launch postponed.
posted by virago at 6:47 PM on February 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Ebeling called his boss at the Kennedy Space Center, where the boss was Thiokol's representative at the launch, and his boss became the leader of the effort to try to get the launch postponed.
posted by virago at 6:47 PM on February 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also according to the article: NPR listeners asked why Ebeling didn't call NASA's launch director or the White House to stop the launch. Ebeling's boss told NPR that the launch director doesn't take outside calls so close to the time of the launch . . . And as for calling the White House, that would get you carted off as a security risk (my paraphrase).
posted by virago at 6:52 PM on February 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by virago at 6:52 PM on February 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It is every bit as much a study in organizational thinking and decisionmaking as it is in engineering.
Very touching, I'm glad he found some peace and that those involved are taking what may be their last chances to revisit it and mourn together.
posted by Miko at 7:29 PM on February 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Very touching, I'm glad he found some peace and that those involved are taking what may be their last chances to revisit it and mourn together.
posted by Miko at 7:29 PM on February 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I vividly remember when that happened. It was my generation's "Where were you when you heard Kennedy got shot?" moment.
I was a teen then and didn't understand anything about it at all, but I just had this feeling that America failed. In retrospect, I was more right than I knew when Sunny Johnson came around the corner and told us that the shuttle blew up and none of us believed her.
I hope you're doing okay, Sunny.
posted by Sphinx at 8:15 PM on February 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was a teen then and didn't understand anything about it at all, but I just had this feeling that America failed. In retrospect, I was more right than I knew when Sunny Johnson came around the corner and told us that the shuttle blew up and none of us believed her.
I hope you're doing okay, Sunny.
posted by Sphinx at 8:15 PM on February 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
It is every bit as much a study in organizational thinking and decisionmaking as it is in engineering.
This incident is in every organizational communication text I've ever looked at. It's even in the undergrad Intro to Communication text I'm teaching with this semester. It's the most common example of the need for clear lines of communication in potential crises.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:47 PM on February 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
This incident is in every organizational communication text I've ever looked at. It's even in the undergrad Intro to Communication text I'm teaching with this semester. It's the most common example of the need for clear lines of communication in potential crises.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:47 PM on February 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Anyone can call the White House, but doing so doesn't mean that one can directly speak to the president.
posted by brujita at 8:57 PM on February 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by brujita at 8:57 PM on February 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
This was nice to read after having listened to the interview with Ebeling's boss Allan McDonald I quoted in the recent Challenger thread. You could hear, after all these years, the frustration and sadness in his voice. I'm really glad he called Bob Ebeling and helped him move past the guilt.
This was a really touching article; thank you for posting it.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:05 PM on February 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
This was a really touching article; thank you for posting it.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:05 PM on February 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm glad Mr. Ebeling is feeling better, but that response from NASA is incredibly cold.
We honor them not through bearing the burden of their loss but by constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant...
Really? You don't bear the burden of their loss?
Mr. Ebeling is part of the NASA community. We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice and recognizing the differences their lives made, especially in NASA's approach to safety.
I just read this as saying "We don't like to think about the dead astronauts. Please acknowledge that we have paid lip service to your concerns by installing new bureaucracy as we were told to." Saying "We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice" just reads to me as "Mr. Ebeling is the bad guy, he's not honoring their sacrifice properly." Like it's backwards and wrong to be sad that people died. I just continue to get the sense that NASA as an organization did not and maybe continues to not care about the human aspects of what they're doing because they're afraid of the human aspects of what they're doing. I mean, to acknowledge that these were human beings who perhaps signed up to die for science but did not sign up to die because of a scheduling conflict. They're so afraid that the public will freak out and shut them down and that they don't have the time or the resources to do things right that they put everything ahead of caring for the human beings involved - even Mr. Ebeling and his colleagues. I really am uncomfortable with this aspect of NASA's organizational culture. It's like a complete vacuum of emotional labor.
posted by bleep at 10:39 PM on February 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
We honor them not through bearing the burden of their loss but by constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant...
Really? You don't bear the burden of their loss?
Mr. Ebeling is part of the NASA community. We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice and recognizing the differences their lives made, especially in NASA's approach to safety.
I just read this as saying "We don't like to think about the dead astronauts. Please acknowledge that we have paid lip service to your concerns by installing new bureaucracy as we were told to." Saying "We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice" just reads to me as "Mr. Ebeling is the bad guy, he's not honoring their sacrifice properly." Like it's backwards and wrong to be sad that people died. I just continue to get the sense that NASA as an organization did not and maybe continues to not care about the human aspects of what they're doing because they're afraid of the human aspects of what they're doing. I mean, to acknowledge that these were human beings who perhaps signed up to die for science but did not sign up to die because of a scheduling conflict. They're so afraid that the public will freak out and shut them down and that they don't have the time or the resources to do things right that they put everything ahead of caring for the human beings involved - even Mr. Ebeling and his colleagues. I really am uncomfortable with this aspect of NASA's organizational culture. It's like a complete vacuum of emotional labor.
posted by bleep at 10:39 PM on February 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Also it says "Your Letters Helped Challenger Shuttle Engineer Shed 30 Years Of Guilt" but it seems like they didn't:
Again, Ebeling wasn't moved. So I asked him if there's something more he wanted to hear.
"You aren't NASA. You aren't Thiokol," he said. "I hadn't heard any of those people."
Kathy noted that neither Thiokol nor NASA had contacted her dad since deep depression prompted his retirement shortly after the Challenger disaster.
"He's never gotten confirmation that he did do his job and he was a good worker and he told the truth," Kathy said.
posted by bleep at 10:47 PM on February 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Again, Ebeling wasn't moved. So I asked him if there's something more he wanted to hear.
"You aren't NASA. You aren't Thiokol," he said. "I hadn't heard any of those people."
Kathy noted that neither Thiokol nor NASA had contacted her dad since deep depression prompted his retirement shortly after the Challenger disaster.
"He's never gotten confirmation that he did do his job and he was a good worker and he told the truth," Kathy said.
posted by bleep at 10:47 PM on February 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
The night before, NASA had sent a statement and Ebeling hadn't heard it yet. The statement was emailed by a spokeswoman for NASA Administrator Charlie Bolden, a former astronaut. He flew on the shuttle flight just before Challenger, and later led the effort to resume shuttle flights safely.
"We honor [the Challenger astronauts] not through bearing the burden of their loss, but by constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant," the statement read. "And to listen to those like Mr. Ebeling who have the courage to speak up so that our astronauts can safely carry out their missions."
After hearing that, Ebeling clapped long and hard, and shouted, "Bravo!"
"I've had that thought many, many times," he said.
Ebeling is now more buoyant than at any time I've seen or talked to him in the past 30 years.
Facing the worst that can happen in order to prevent it and save lives. Eberling was tormented that he had failed at that for the Challenger astronauts
The NASA administrator told him that he had succeeded, but in a different way, by indirectly saving astronauts on subsequent missions.
posted by otherchaz at 11:58 PM on February 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
"We honor [the Challenger astronauts] not through bearing the burden of their loss, but by constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant," the statement read. "And to listen to those like Mr. Ebeling who have the courage to speak up so that our astronauts can safely carry out their missions."
After hearing that, Ebeling clapped long and hard, and shouted, "Bravo!"
"I've had that thought many, many times," he said.
Ebeling is now more buoyant than at any time I've seen or talked to him in the past 30 years.
Facing the worst that can happen in order to prevent it and save lives. Eberling was tormented that he had failed at that for the Challenger astronauts
The NASA administrator told him that he had succeeded, but in a different way, by indirectly saving astronauts on subsequent missions.
posted by otherchaz at 11:58 PM on February 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
here is a link to the case study about organizational communication failures before the launch. I read it in one if my poli sci classes. I hope that it's also taught in every business school.
posted by betsybetsy at 3:20 AM on February 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by betsybetsy at 3:20 AM on February 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I remember hearing the Zwerdling report, on the right hand side of this page, when it first aired. Was then, and remains, one of the best radio pieces I've ever heard. Dramatic and very emotional.
posted by young_simba at 5:29 AM on February 26, 2016
posted by young_simba at 5:29 AM on February 26, 2016
There's a film that recreates the whole debate almost verbatim based on records from the call between NASA and Thiokol; I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. There was intense pressure from Reagan to get the launch off on time, and the group think mentality was really against this guy. It's a great example that just because you're the only dissenting voice doesn't mean you're wrong. Reminds me a bit of an Ibsen play, actually.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:33 AM on February 26, 2016
posted by backseatpilot at 5:33 AM on February 26, 2016
I understand that there were engineers who warned NASA about possible problems with The Challenger and asked for a delay.
The question is how many times engineers and others warned about possible problems with other flights and various other experiments.
Was this warning unique?
posted by 2manyusernames at 5:53 AM on February 26, 2016
The question is how many times engineers and others warned about possible problems with other flights and various other experiments.
Was this warning unique?
posted by 2manyusernames at 5:53 AM on February 26, 2016
I heard the original interview on NPR when it aired, and it choked me up. I'm glad he's got some measure of relief from the burden he's felt he had to carry all these years. I also imagined there may have been many more engineers and other workers involved in the launch, living their non-interviews lives around the country, who perhaps also felt personal guilt for their part in a project that killed the astronauts, and I hoped they too would find the solace they needed from the positive response to Ebeling's story.
In a way I saw his dilemma as similar to the burden everyone involved in contemporary civilization might feel, since the industries and technologies that support and maintain all our lives in the "developed world" nearly always result in harm and death to innocents along the way.
posted by aught at 6:10 AM on February 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
In a way I saw his dilemma as similar to the burden everyone involved in contemporary civilization might feel, since the industries and technologies that support and maintain all our lives in the "developed world" nearly always result in harm and death to innocents along the way.
posted by aught at 6:10 AM on February 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just read this as saying "We don't like to think about the dead astronauts. Please acknowledge that we have paid lip service to your concerns by installing new bureaucracy as we were told to." Saying "We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice" just reads to me as "Mr. Ebeling is the bad guy, he's not honoring their sacrifice properly."
I'm no fan of bureaucracy at NASA or anywhere else, but rewriting people's words to turn them into caricatures of evil supervillains is problematic, it seems to me. Not that people don't do this constantly on MeFi when they think the evidence of original quotes isn't outrageous enough to sustain our collective hate. That doesn't make it a good practice, however.
posted by aught at 6:17 AM on February 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm no fan of bureaucracy at NASA or anywhere else, but rewriting people's words to turn them into caricatures of evil supervillains is problematic, it seems to me. Not that people don't do this constantly on MeFi when they think the evidence of original quotes isn't outrageous enough to sustain our collective hate. That doesn't make it a good practice, however.
posted by aught at 6:17 AM on February 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Was this warning unique?
Probably not, but that's a very unhelpful question. When missing an error is so expensive and catastrophic in terms of human lives, you want to err on the side of false positives when looking out for danger.
I'm no fan of bureaucracy at NASA or anywhere else, but rewriting people's words to turn them into caricatures of evil supervillains is problematic, it seems to me. Not that people don't do this constantly on MeFi when they think the evidence of original quotes isn't outrageous enough to sustain our collective hate. That doesn't make it a good practice, however.
Words have connotations. The connotation of the phrase "We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice" implies that he is not, in fact honoring the astronauts sacrifice, and the speaker is. Pointing that out is hardly "rewriting people's words" in any way that changes the meaning.
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:41 AM on February 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Probably not, but that's a very unhelpful question. When missing an error is so expensive and catastrophic in terms of human lives, you want to err on the side of false positives when looking out for danger.
I'm no fan of bureaucracy at NASA or anywhere else, but rewriting people's words to turn them into caricatures of evil supervillains is problematic, it seems to me. Not that people don't do this constantly on MeFi when they think the evidence of original quotes isn't outrageous enough to sustain our collective hate. That doesn't make it a good practice, however.
Words have connotations. The connotation of the phrase "We encourage him to join us in honoring their sacrifice" implies that he is not, in fact honoring the astronauts sacrifice, and the speaker is. Pointing that out is hardly "rewriting people's words" in any way that changes the meaning.
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:41 AM on February 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
In a way I saw his dilemma as similar to the burden everyone involved in contemporary civilization might feel, since the industries and technologies that support and maintain all our lives in the "developed world" nearly always result in harm and death to innocents along the way.
In his case it was inadvertent. I also wonder what the psychological toll is on those engineers who design weapons and the manufacturers who produce them.
posted by Miko at 6:53 AM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
In his case it was inadvertent. I also wonder what the psychological toll is on those engineers who design weapons and the manufacturers who produce them.
posted by Miko at 6:53 AM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Petition for the White House to officially honor Robert Ebeling. It would be a strong statement to honor the courage that he and others displayed at that level. I'd rather see it extended to the others who raised their objections as well and ideally it would be noted that they did their jobs properly as much as the structure and chain of command would allow. I'm all for discussing whether he or others should have been able to do more to scrub or hold the launch but blaming people like this for not doing enough only hurts them and makes others not speak out at all in fear of being blamed for knowing and not doing enough.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 7:01 AM on February 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 7:01 AM on February 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
bleep: Really? You don't bear the burden of their loss?
read the sentence again.
"We honor them not through bearing the burden of their loss but by constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant..."
We honor them not through [our] bearing the burden of their loss but by [our] constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant...
The subject of the sentence is 'how we honor them', not whether 'we bear a burden'. pretty basic.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:40 AM on February 26, 2016
read the sentence again.
"We honor them not through bearing the burden of their loss but by constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant..."
We honor them not through [our] bearing the burden of their loss but by [our] constantly reminding each other to remain vigilant...
The subject of the sentence is 'how we honor them', not whether 'we bear a burden'. pretty basic.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:40 AM on February 26, 2016
Also it says "Your Letters Helped Challenger Shuttle Engineer Shed 30 Years Of Guilt" but it seems like they didn't:
I don't think you can draw that conclusion. It was the listeners' letters that set in motion all the events in the story, concluding with NASA finally getting in touch with Eberling. And really, people's minds are usually changed by a long chain of events, not just one. You never know where you are in that chain that gets someone to change their mind about something. Here, the letters were links in the chain of events that got Eberling to the place where he could let go of his guilt. That the listeners' letters were in the earlier part of the chain doesn't make them any less important.
I have mixed feelings reading this story. Although I'm glad that his guilt has been assuaged, I think it's beyond awful that he had to live with it for 30 years, and at the end of his life. Sure would have been nice if someone at NASA had spoken to him before this.
posted by holborne at 8:14 AM on February 26, 2016
I don't think you can draw that conclusion. It was the listeners' letters that set in motion all the events in the story, concluding with NASA finally getting in touch with Eberling. And really, people's minds are usually changed by a long chain of events, not just one. You never know where you are in that chain that gets someone to change their mind about something. Here, the letters were links in the chain of events that got Eberling to the place where he could let go of his guilt. That the listeners' letters were in the earlier part of the chain doesn't make them any less important.
I have mixed feelings reading this story. Although I'm glad that his guilt has been assuaged, I think it's beyond awful that he had to live with it for 30 years, and at the end of his life. Sure would have been nice if someone at NASA had spoken to him before this.
posted by holborne at 8:14 AM on February 26, 2016
I agree, holborne. If I were his daughter or wife, I think I would have considered suing them for years of suffering and distress. I don't know if I would have had a case, but as a stranger I am so mad on his behalf.
I wonder what the days after the explosion were like. Did they didn't think about having a debriefing, a meeting to talk about what went wrong? was there any acknowledgement of their responsibility and the fact that the engineers had been right and willfully ignored?
posted by Tarumba at 8:53 AM on February 26, 2016
I wonder what the days after the explosion were like. Did they didn't think about having a debriefing, a meeting to talk about what went wrong? was there any acknowledgement of their responsibility and the fact that the engineers had been right and willfully ignored?
posted by Tarumba at 8:53 AM on February 26, 2016
Ah - the movie I was thinking of is actually called Challenger, and has Peter Boyle in it!
posted by backseatpilot at 9:38 AM on February 26, 2016
posted by backseatpilot at 9:38 AM on February 26, 2016
Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis. Requiescat in pace.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:55 PM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 6:55 PM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hope that the support from so many strangers brought him happiness in the last weeks of his life. I hope too that his family can appreciate even more what a special man they had in their lives.
.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:23 AM on March 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:23 AM on March 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
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