Unknown Man Dies For Unknown Reason

June 7, 2016 3:03 PM

Why did this man travel 200 miles to die in the Peak District? The BBC looks at the unsolved death in December of an unidentified man who travelled from London to Manchester by train only to be found on the moor. The article is a companion piece to a Radio 4 podcast.
posted by comealongpole (34 comments total)

Guardian: The mystery of Saddleworth Moor: who was 'Neil Dovestone'? (Covers the same ground as the BBC article, but with slightly more detail.)
posted by verstegan at 3:16 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]

Six months have now passed since the man on the moor lay down by the path and died, and still no-one has even the vaguest notion of who he is.

And we'll probably have to wait another six months for Sherlock's next season to find out.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:24 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]

Huh. That's serious mystery territory. Kind of reminds me of the Taman Shud case, though without the poetry.

I've got to think he came from Pakistan, if he had been living in the UK for long surely someone would have recognized him, since they have CCTV film of him. But if he entered the UK, why don't they have a record of that? And that's such a damn long way to come to kill yourself.

I don't imagine it really *matters* in the long run if they identify him, but I can't blame the detectives for wanting to spend the time, you seldom get such a challenge.
posted by tavella at 3:24 PM on June 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

Where is Miss Marple when you need her?
posted by infini at 3:31 PM on June 7, 2016

I'm really impressed with this article. At least the design and impressive use of html5. The content of the article is meh, but the design is cool. 5 out of 5.
posted by JJ86 at 3:36 PM on June 7, 2016 [9 favorites]

I thought the article was interesting, and it reminded me of the article posted a while back about the man (presumably a spy) found on a beach in Australia.

But I HATED the design. If you like it, you're obviously not a touch-screen scroller. If you're on a touch screen, you can only touch specific spots on the article to scroll, and which spot you have to touch keeps changing. I kept thinking I might be missing something in those diagrams that left elements off until you scrolled in particular spots.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:42 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

I usually find that sort of design more irritating than helpful, that's the first time I've where it added to the article.
posted by Bee'sWing at 3:47 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Curiously it works fine on my HP Touchsmart.
posted by JJ86 at 3:47 PM on June 7, 2016

So, he died of strychnine poisoning, which causes painful convulsions, but he was absolutely calmly-posed like that? Huh.
posted by destructive cactus at 3:54 PM on June 7, 2016 [14 favorites]

It's not clear to me that he actually died of the strychnine. They say 'traces of', not specifically that it was a lethal dose. It's hard to believe that it was what he died of, if he died where he was. Even if he just happened to fall into that peaceful position as he passed from convulsions into death, you'd expect a disturbed area around him, and quite possibly bruising and other damage to his body. From my understanding, strychnine convulsions are *very* violent.
posted by tavella at 4:10 PM on June 7, 2016

The most curious aspect is the link between this particular spot and Pakistan. Either the man had connections in England which made that spot meaningful to him or somehow it is known for a specific reason in Pakistan. I wonder if there has been any literature or film in Pakistan which featured the Peaks? Like somehow he got it into his mind this would be a fitting place to die. I dunno.

I thought the article was interesting, and it reminded me of the article posted a while back about the man (presumably a spy) found on a beach in Australia.

That's the Tamam Shud case mentioned by tavella.
posted by Emma May Smith at 4:24 PM on June 7, 2016

Well, now I know how I want to go...lying down gently out in nature, and befuddling the authorities.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:39 PM on June 7, 2016 [29 favorites]

Shades of Takako Konishi, a Japanese woman who died in the woods outside of Fargo.

befuddling the authorities

It does seem a pity to intentionally waste their time, if you could avoid it.
posted by BungaDunga at 4:49 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

It does seem a pity to intentionally waste their time, if you could avoid it.
posted by BungaDunga at 4:49 PM on June 7

These are presumably detectives...they need a challenge in detecting!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:51 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

Nothing they like better than a good round of detecting, really.

I do like this kind of mystery, although one feels a bit of a voyeur. Like the Taman Shud case upthread, and the case of the Isdal Woman, although she was almost certainly a spy.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 5:03 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

Hmm, no, it appears that specifically the coroner has strychnine as the cause of death. And I just don't see how someone dies of that on a patch of wet grass without leaving some sign of struggle. You have to wonder if someone was with him to tidy up the body; he acted as if he was killing time, waiting for someone at the station, and they haven't found a cab that gave him a ride to the pub. Yet he was apparently alone on the trail since he was seen by two RSPB members.

Very Taman Shud indeed.
posted by tavella at 5:06 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

They say that the way the plate was attached to his femur was "unusual."

I wonder if it was a botched surgery, and whether if he did kill himself, it was because the pain was simply too great.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:25 PM on June 7, 2016

Terribly fascinating and sad at the same time. Thoughtful of the editors to include at the end "Are you affected by this story?" with the Samaritans number.
posted by soakimbo at 6:56 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]

Adding my voice to everyone else's that this is very Taman Shud-like. I remember the first time I heard about that case (here on MeFi, I think) and disappeared down the rabbit hole reading about it. Fascinating and unsettling, just like this case.

It seems so odd to read of cases of unidentifiable people these days...seems so unlikely that not a single person would be able to come forward and ID someone.

I'm really impressed with this article. At least the design and impressive use of html5. The content of the article is meh, but the design is cool. 5 out of 5.
posted by JJ86 at 3:36 PM on June 7

Ha, my iPad was so impressed it expired in a fit of ecstasy--I had to read it on the desktop instead.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:56 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

barbara havers could solve this crime in a week, less if winnie ntaka was partnering.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:41 PM on June 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

According to Wikipedia, strychnine poisoning causes convulsions within approximately 15 minutes...but also, taken at a hight enough dose, can kill you dead as dead within 15 minutes. A bit of a stretch, but I guess if strychnine was the cause of death, old Neil may very well have taken a superdose of the stuff and died before the spasming could start?
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:29 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

This is blue sky speculation... but remember, we may not be getting the whole story. Initially, Boris Berezovsky was said to have died of natural causes. Alexander Peripechelnyy, Dr. David Kelly....there's a lot that the BBC may be omitting due to a letter from GCHQ.

This has the hall-marks of an intelligence operation, due to the extensive sanitization of the drop site. The man could have been on any side of the great game (ISI, Taliban/Lashkar, FSB, MI6). The site, and the unidentified transport to the site, could have been for a meet. That meeting didn't have the agenda that he was anticipating.

I think he was either a sleeper or a retired asset, and someone either tracked him down or found out he'd been playing a bit too favorably to another faction.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 9:45 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also! Hyperthyroidism (for which thyroxine sodium is prescribed) is apparently "commonly associated" with dystonia, which can cause opisthotonus (the violent spasming you go through with strychnine poisoning). Dystonia can be caused by "traumatic injury", which Neil appears to have suffered from at some point if the titanium rod in his leg is anything to go by. So maybe it's possible that Neil was dystonic (?), suffered from attacks of opisthotonus (is that how it works?) regularly, and had "greased the groove" for his spasms such that they occurred in a way that they would leave him in the position he was found in? Or something?
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:53 PM on June 7, 2016

OMG apparently you can actually build up a tolerance for strychnine and people who have nonketotic hyperglycinemia are apparently even more tolerant and nonketotic hyperglycinemia sufferers also can have spasms and and and maybe it's a conspiracy or something and Neil had been working up his tolerance to strychnine for years and years (depressed by his terrible accident?) so that he could one day take the fatal dose without having to go through the awful suffering and

*steps away from the Google*
posted by turbid dahlia at 10:03 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

... or it was just plain old mental illness.
posted by sour cream at 12:27 AM on June 8, 2016

Given that this man seems to have gone to considerable trouble to remain anonymous by buying his ticket with cash and disposing of all identification, couldn't we just respect his wishes and leave it at that?
posted by Paul Slade at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Given that this man seems to have gone to considerable trouble to remain anonymous by buying his ticket with cash and disposing of all identification, couldn't we just respect his wishes and leave it at that?

Because if he was doing that because he feared for his safety because he was in danger, and then someone murdered him, or if he was doing it because he was engaged in illegal activity, or if he was a spy, or if other people remain in danger, it's not okay to leave it at that. Law enforcement shouldn't just close cases because a potential victim might have just been a very private person.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

The most curious aspect is the link between this particular spot and Pakistan. Either the man had connections in England which made that spot meaningful to him or somehow it is known for a specific reason in Pakistan.

It's near some of the places with large populations who originated in Pakistan - wikipedia tells me that Oldham has 4% of the population of Pakistani origin; then you go over the Pennies and you're into Dewsbury, 10% of Pakistani origin. You're in a slice of the north of England where the main non-white immigration has been from Pakistan; if he'd lived in that area before being in London he could well have been familiar with the moor.
posted by Vortisaur at 10:14 AM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't imagine it really *matters* in the long run if they identify him, but I can't blame the detectives for wanting to spend the time, you seldom get such a challenge.

I'm glad the detectives are willing to spend the time. Hopefully they can make a positive ID, if only to say, "You were Mr. So-and-so, born at this time, died at that time; may you be at peace." Sucks for anyone to die alone; hopefully, if his identity is learned, that identification may grant some small measure of peace to his family in this life and to him in the next.
posted by xedrik at 12:16 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Death in Big Bend has the usual stories of people unprepared for the weather, one or two really scary encounters with psychopaths, and a surprising number of people who apparently committed suicide by wandering off into the back country, sometimes hiding themselves off the trail. They just wanted to disappear.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's near some of the places with large populations who originated in Pakistan - wikipedia tells me that Oldham has 4% of the population of Pakistani origin; then you go over the Pennies and you're into Dewsbury, 10% of Pakistani origin. You're in a slice of the north of England where the main non-white immigration has been from Pakistan; if he'd lived in that area before being in London he could well have been familiar with the moor.

The piece makes reference to the journey from Heathrow to central London being convoluted given he came through Ealing. Ealing is very close to Southall, which is another area with a very high South Asian population; I wonder if there's a connection there, i.e. he was staying in Southall or came via the Southall area for some reason.

The Pakistani connection seems to potentially link the start and end points of his journey, as well as the hip operation of course.
posted by plep at 11:48 PM on June 8, 2016

I wonder if there's a connection there, i.e. he was staying in Southall or came via the Southall area for some reason.

There is a direct train from Heathrow to Ealing Broadway via Southall, which is west of Ealing Broadway, but the piece points out that he didn't use it, he went to South Ealing, which is south of Ealing Broadway. There isn't a good way to get from the Piccadilly line to Southall, a motorway and some farms and a stately home get in the way. And he didn't stop in Hounslow either.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 3:30 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

RTFA it seems the South Ealing thing is a bit of a guess, so as you were.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 3:46 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Isdal Woman gives me the jeebies, mostly because of the hiking group passing the other way. Also because WTF, is like something from a Bond film.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 8:31 PM on June 9, 2016