"Traitor." "Too much make-up." "Dressed as a woman but a hawkish man."
August 1, 2016 8:27 AM Subscribe
Tokyo elects Yuriko Koike as first female governor Ms Koike is a member of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), but it did not endorse her so she ran as an independent. (SLBBC)
Mod note: One comment removed; "here's some additional good links about this" is great, but skip the needless gripey framing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 AM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 AM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Eh, she's a hardline conservative nationalist. She likes to compare herself to Thatcher and Clinton, but this doesn't sound like Clinton:
posted by zombieflanders at 9:19 AM on August 1, 2016 [43 favorites]
She opposes participation in regional elections by non-Japanese people, is against the system of Korean schools that operates in Japan and does not want to see foreign immigration into JapanNor does this:
Koike was endorsed for Tokyo governor by the Japan Society for History Textbook Reform, which promotes a revisionist, nationalistic view of Japanese history, particularly downplaying or whitewashing war crimes and the use of sex slaves by Japanese forces in WWII. In the past, she's written about the need for Japan to "take responsibility for the future, not obsess about the past."She also claimed that "Japan and Korea have not fought a series of wars against each other", unlike France and Germany. Strong support of revisionist history on the level of Holocaust denial or the neo-Confederate "Lost Cause" movement in the US isn't something either Clinton or Thatcher ever dallied in.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:19 AM on August 1, 2016 [43 favorites]
From NHK World TV, Japan's national overseas television broadcaster (in English):
- Tokyo elects first woman governor (July 31)
- Koike vows to push ahead with reforms for Tokyo (Aug 1)
-
Election results blow to political parties (Aug 1)
Some of the members of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party are calling for a tough stance against Yuriko Koike because she ran against the party's nominee...
- Koike to run without LDP recommendation (July 6)
"Of course, given that Japan and Korea have not fought a series of wars against each other"
That's breathtaking revisionism. It's like a neoconfederate claiming that the civil war never happened.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:05 AM on August 1, 2016 [15 favorites]
That's breathtaking revisionism. It's like a neoconfederate claiming that the civil war never happened.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:05 AM on August 1, 2016 [15 favorites]
on the level of Holocaust denial
That's being a bit hyperbolic. Besides, Japan, as do many other parts of the world, tends to defy the US concept of a liberal versus conservative dichotomy, but it's understandable why Americans would tend to view Japan through an American lens.
Anyway, she's the governor of Tokyo. Her ideas about nationalism are neither here nor there. As the last Shisaku blog post points out, she is going to have to deal with a deeply dysfunctional government that has literally consumed two of her predecessors (what are your opinions about Masuzoe's resignation, btw? Do you think he should have resigned?).
In a nutshell, the real story here is not right-wing signaling, but the fact that Tokyo, one of the world's largest economies, has a dysfunctional local government. The next Tokyo elections are scheduled to occur, by the way, during the 2020 Olympics. A big problem, I would say.
posted by My Dad at 10:29 AM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's being a bit hyperbolic. Besides, Japan, as do many other parts of the world, tends to defy the US concept of a liberal versus conservative dichotomy, but it's understandable why Americans would tend to view Japan through an American lens.
Anyway, she's the governor of Tokyo. Her ideas about nationalism are neither here nor there. As the last Shisaku blog post points out, she is going to have to deal with a deeply dysfunctional government that has literally consumed two of her predecessors (what are your opinions about Masuzoe's resignation, btw? Do you think he should have resigned?).
In a nutshell, the real story here is not right-wing signaling, but the fact that Tokyo, one of the world's largest economies, has a dysfunctional local government. The next Tokyo elections are scheduled to occur, by the way, during the 2020 Olympics. A big problem, I would say.
posted by My Dad at 10:29 AM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's being a bit hyperbolic.
Forced labor, conscription of sex slaves, and human experimentation all occurred under Japanese rule in Korea, and all are atrocities that are at least of the same genre as the Holocaust. Just because they don't have the same degree of popular awareness (in part thanks to conscious choices made in the postwar period, and continuing today, to allow Japan to bury its conduct in the war years and rehabilitate a lot of the participants) doesn't mean that they aren't comparably horrific.
posted by fifthrider at 10:34 AM on August 1, 2016 [42 favorites]
Forced labor, conscription of sex slaves, and human experimentation all occurred under Japanese rule in Korea, and all are atrocities that are at least of the same genre as the Holocaust. Just because they don't have the same degree of popular awareness (in part thanks to conscious choices made in the postwar period, and continuing today, to allow Japan to bury its conduct in the war years and rehabilitate a lot of the participants) doesn't mean that they aren't comparably horrific.
posted by fifthrider at 10:34 AM on August 1, 2016 [42 favorites]
Anyway, she's the governor of Tokyo. Her ideas about nationalism are neither here nor there
Tell that to Boris Johnson.
posted by Karaage at 10:36 AM on August 1, 2016 [22 favorites]
Tell that to Boris Johnson.
posted by Karaage at 10:36 AM on August 1, 2016 [22 favorites]
Besides, Japan, as do many other parts of the world, tends to defy the US concept of a liberal versus conservative dichotomy, but it's understandable why Americans would tend to view Japan through an American lens.
They seem to be hitting all the right beats for the wide-ranging global phenomenon of ethnic nationalism however.
posted by griphus at 10:40 AM on August 1, 2016 [31 favorites]
They seem to be hitting all the right beats for the wide-ranging global phenomenon of ethnic nationalism however.
posted by griphus at 10:40 AM on August 1, 2016 [31 favorites]
...aaaand before you start up on Americans And Their Ideas again: I can't live in the country I was born because of ethnic nationalism. That country is not America.
posted by griphus at 10:42 AM on August 1, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by griphus at 10:42 AM on August 1, 2016 [27 favorites]
a deeply dysfunctional government that has literally consumed two of her predecessors
This horrific act of cannibalism should definitely have made more headlines
posted by beerperson at 10:48 AM on August 1, 2016 [42 favorites]
This horrific act of cannibalism should definitely have made more headlines
posted by beerperson at 10:48 AM on August 1, 2016 [42 favorites]
Koike was endorsed for Tokyo governor by the Japan Society for History Textbook Reform, which promotes a revisionist, nationalistic view of Japanese history, particularly downplaying or whitewashing war crimes and the use of sex slaves by Japanese forces in WWII. In the past, she's written about the need for Japan to "take responsibility for the future, not obsess about the past."
She sounds like a far-right, radical nationalist. It's pretty telling, about Japan's political culture, that she is taking such positions and is still critiqued as a traitor.
posted by clockzero at 11:52 AM on August 1, 2016
She sounds like a far-right, radical nationalist. It's pretty telling, about Japan's political culture, that she is taking such positions and is still critiqued as a traitor.
posted by clockzero at 11:52 AM on August 1, 2016
She sounds like a far-right, radical nationalist. It's pretty telling, about Japan's political culture, that she is taking such positions and is still critiqued as a traitor.
A traitor to the party, right? Because she ran against their official candidate.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:26 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
A traitor to the party, right? Because she ran against their official candidate.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:26 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
"take responsibility for the future, not obsess about the past."
This is something I hear a lot in Japan. For lots of reasons, many people do not think the past is relevant to modern Japan. They are focused on now/future. And many of them would argue (rightfully, IMO) that modern Japan is much more peaceful and well-behaved than most first world countries (certainly US, England, France, etc who have been heavily involved in war in the last 2 decades, and Japan's neighbors Russia and China).
That said, the lack of political discussion and engagement in Japan means it is not at all certain that Japan will _remain_ that way, as many people are not really paying attention.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:28 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is something I hear a lot in Japan. For lots of reasons, many people do not think the past is relevant to modern Japan. They are focused on now/future. And many of them would argue (rightfully, IMO) that modern Japan is much more peaceful and well-behaved than most first world countries (certainly US, England, France, etc who have been heavily involved in war in the last 2 decades, and Japan's neighbors Russia and China).
That said, the lack of political discussion and engagement in Japan means it is not at all certain that Japan will _remain_ that way, as many people are not really paying attention.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:28 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ah, yes, my bad, that makes sense. Dōmo arigato, mr_roboto
posted by clockzero at 12:28 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by clockzero at 12:28 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, it will be interesting to see how Koike actually turns out. She's in a very different position now (than Defense Minister) and has burned her bridges with the LDP. She says she has distanced herself from Nippon Kaigi.
That could just be campaigning, or it could be a real shift. In theory she's less beholden to the LDP now and can reinvent herself in the vein of her campaign if she does really want to. I hope she does.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:52 PM on August 1, 2016
That could just be campaigning, or it could be a real shift. In theory she's less beholden to the LDP now and can reinvent herself in the vein of her campaign if she does really want to. I hope she does.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:52 PM on August 1, 2016
(The original article mentions it some, here's another). Promoting diversity and opportunities for women was a big part of her campaign. Her past gives reason to be skeptical, but it does seem she has given herself a political chance to make a turn if she wants it.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:55 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 12:55 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
...but it's understandable why Americans would tend to view Japan through an American lens.
In what sense, exactly, is noting the parallels of a Japanese official denying wars, atrocities and genocidal acts which were indeed committed by her countrymen against Koreans, to Holocaust denial, an "American" view?
posted by zarq at 1:01 PM on August 1, 2016 [12 favorites]
In what sense, exactly, is noting the parallels of a Japanese official denying wars, atrocities and genocidal acts which were indeed committed by her countrymen against Koreans, to Holocaust denial, an "American" view?
posted by zarq at 1:01 PM on August 1, 2016 [12 favorites]
I imagine I'm missing a lot of context because of my very limited understanding of Japanese politics, but I admit that some of the commentary about her bothers me. I totally agree that her politics seem disturbing, to put it mildly ... I mean seriously, "Japan and Korea have never fought a series of wars"?? This is some kind of bizarre parallel universe thinking. But comments like "too much make-up" or "dressed as a woman but a hawkish man" aren't people just disagreeing with her politics, they're sexist dismissals, and I'm mildly surprised that this hasn't had pushback in this thread already. It does come across as if folks aren't so bothered by sexism when the targets aren't nice people. But again, maybe I'm missing some context here.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 1:11 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 1:11 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
That brings up a question: is an article discussing her success as a woman in politics in a patriarchal/openly misgynist society that completely avoids talking about her actual (uncomfortable) politics sexist? Specifically in the sense that while gender is obviously playing a role, she is being elected for her politics, few (if any) of which are present in the article. We're given enough information to say "it is bad that sexist things are happening to her, and it is good that a woman has reached a position of power like this" but that's about it, reducing her from a person to a cypher with a particular gender.
posted by griphus at 1:32 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:32 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
There are plenty of other articles that do talk about her politics, however. Probably would have been helpful for framing (especially the contrast between some of her past positions and her campaign, which leaves her future a bit of an open question).
Here's another article. Daycare/childcare was a big issue and one that Koike seemed to do well on.
The Western press has mostly focused on (a) she's a woman, and (b) her past. I read some articles on NYT and other places that spent almost no time discussing the actual campaign / statements / positions. I suppose that part is less interesting to most non-Japanese, but its hard to have much of a conversation without it.
This article has some more info too. Another theme you see in the English-language Japanese papers is that the Tokyo Metropolitan Government has been seen as ineffective, and voters hoped she would have some positive effect on that.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:44 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's another article. Daycare/childcare was a big issue and one that Koike seemed to do well on.
The Western press has mostly focused on (a) she's a woman, and (b) her past. I read some articles on NYT and other places that spent almost no time discussing the actual campaign / statements / positions. I suppose that part is less interesting to most non-Japanese, but its hard to have much of a conversation without it.
This article has some more info too. Another theme you see in the English-language Japanese papers is that the Tokyo Metropolitan Government has been seen as ineffective, and voters hoped she would have some positive effect on that.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:44 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Compared to the second last governor of Tokyo, whose views included outright denial of the Rape of Nanking, she seems a lot more reasonable, to be honest.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 1:46 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 1:46 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
One last point and then I'll step away for a bit. The Western press has been really focusing on her foreign policy (and as a former Defense Minister there is plenty to know). Which makes sense because thats what non-Japanese care about and know.
But the saying "all politics is local" is useful here I think. Tokyo residents were not voting for her based on statements about Korea (North or South). They're voting for her based on economics and local government issues.
The intense focus in the Western press on her statements about the past (which I agree are pretty reprehensible) miscasts this a bit as some sort of referendum on those views, or tries to tie it into an overarching narrative about conservatism in the federal government. I don't think that was a major factor in this election, however. There's no suggestion that Tokyo citizens were voting for her based on those factors.
Her campaign was focused on reform, but what she will actually do remains to be seen.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:50 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
But the saying "all politics is local" is useful here I think. Tokyo residents were not voting for her based on statements about Korea (North or South). They're voting for her based on economics and local government issues.
The intense focus in the Western press on her statements about the past (which I agree are pretty reprehensible) miscasts this a bit as some sort of referendum on those views, or tries to tie it into an overarching narrative about conservatism in the federal government. I don't think that was a major factor in this election, however. There's no suggestion that Tokyo citizens were voting for her based on those factors.
Her campaign was focused on reform, but what she will actually do remains to be seen.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:50 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
I wouldn't let Clinton or especially Thatcher off the hook about bad political decisions and views, including interpretations of the past, so I wouldn't separate Koike so much from them, but I think claiming that political labels are just people having American or Western interpretations is unnecessary exoticising in a lot of places. I remember someone claiming that Pope Francis's Argentinian background meant that left right etc. labels didn't apply (this wasn't about Peronism, I think). Of the top three candidates in this election in Tokyo it was clear that one of them was the left-liberal coalition candidate and it wasn't hard to figure out.
posted by Gnatcho at 2:03 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by Gnatcho at 2:03 PM on August 1, 2016
Denying the past is certainly not a way forward. On the other hand, most of the major powers would need to hang their heads over their actions in East Asia (and Africa, and ...) in the 19th century.
So long as we are ruled by the past, we will be unable to extricate ourselves and create the world we all long for.
posted by Twang at 3:40 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
So long as we are ruled by the past, we will be unable to extricate ourselves and create the world we all long for.
posted by Twang at 3:40 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
griphus: "Specifically in the sense that while gender is obviously playing a role, she is being elected for her politics, few (if any) of which are present in the article."
Speaking from Kawasaki, across the river from Tokyo (think Jersey City with relation to New York City), she hasn't been elected for her politics in a general sense. From the reporting I've seen on TV it's mainly been about cutting waste, opening nursery schools, and curbing Olympic overspending. Her historical revisionist views may be items of public record, but I doubt they're really items of public knowledge, and they didn't come up in the run-up to the election, so they're certainly not the reason she was elected.
I mean, honestly, if you want to know what the election looked like on the ground floor, read the first article. That's the election people saw, and those were the positions they voted on, not anything to do with history or international relations.
posted by Bugbread at 6:36 PM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
Speaking from Kawasaki, across the river from Tokyo (think Jersey City with relation to New York City), she hasn't been elected for her politics in a general sense. From the reporting I've seen on TV it's mainly been about cutting waste, opening nursery schools, and curbing Olympic overspending. Her historical revisionist views may be items of public record, but I doubt they're really items of public knowledge, and they didn't come up in the run-up to the election, so they're certainly not the reason she was elected.
I mean, honestly, if you want to know what the election looked like on the ground floor, read the first article. That's the election people saw, and those were the positions they voted on, not anything to do with history or international relations.
posted by Bugbread at 6:36 PM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
the existence of stars below the horizon: "But comments like "too much make-up" or "dressed as a woman but a hawkish man" aren't people just disagreeing with her politics, they're sexist dismissals, and I'm mildly surprised that this hasn't had pushback in this thread already. It does come across as if folks aren't so bothered by sexism when the targets aren't nice people. But again, maybe I'm missing some context here."
I'm assuming there's no pushback because everyone here agrees that it's wrong? There's no pushback against Masuzoe's embezzlement, either, but I don't see that as MetaFilter not being bothered because they like Masuzoe, but because it's obvious that embezzlement is bad.
The article sublinked in the BBC article is also good. It points out that part of the problem was her opposition (nothing really going for Masuda, and Torigoe, who might have made a decent candidate a decade ago, really doesn't seem physically healthy or mentally alert enough to vote for), and that the sexist attacks actually helped her campaign, because saying shit like that isn't considered par-for-the-course in Japan anymore, and while out-of-touch old politicians may think that sexist attacks are a viable tactic, they've lost touch with what the values of the Japanese public of today. The English articles quote her as saying "I'm used to it," but her full quote (「日本の男性であのぐらいの方、直接そういうことおっしゃいません？私も、また言ってらぁ、という感じで。」) was more like "Japanese guys that age say things like that, right? It's like 'there he goes again'."
posted by Bugbread at 6:51 PM on August 1, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm assuming there's no pushback because everyone here agrees that it's wrong? There's no pushback against Masuzoe's embezzlement, either, but I don't see that as MetaFilter not being bothered because they like Masuzoe, but because it's obvious that embezzlement is bad.
The article sublinked in the BBC article is also good. It points out that part of the problem was her opposition (nothing really going for Masuda, and Torigoe, who might have made a decent candidate a decade ago, really doesn't seem physically healthy or mentally alert enough to vote for), and that the sexist attacks actually helped her campaign, because saying shit like that isn't considered par-for-the-course in Japan anymore, and while out-of-touch old politicians may think that sexist attacks are a viable tactic, they've lost touch with what the values of the Japanese public of today. The English articles quote her as saying "I'm used to it," but her full quote (「日本の男性であのぐらいの方、直接そういうことおっしゃいません？私も、また言ってらぁ、という感じで。」) was more like "Japanese guys that age say things like that, right? It's like 'there he goes again'."
posted by Bugbread at 6:51 PM on August 1, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also, the "hawkish man" comment deserves a lot more context. First, "hawkish" is referring to hawk/dove - that is, it means "militaristic." The person who made the comment is Mizuho Fukushima, also a female politician, also in her 60s. It wasn't a comment about appearance, but saying that Koike may be trying to appeal to women voters, but, to put it in MetaFilter parlance, she's "just another rich white dude inside". This did get blowback because Koike has had her ovaries removed, though it's not really clear if she was doing a transphobic thing or if Koike's medical history just didn't occur to her when she said the comment. Given that Fukushima has a history of supporting LGBT causes, it's more likely that it was unrelated to Koike's ovaries and wasn't meant as transphobia but as mild misandry.
The only super-sexist thing that got TV airplay was the "thick makeup" thing by Ishihara Shintaro, which doesn't require any additional context because the guy is feces that has somehow attained the ability to walk and talk.
posted by Bugbread at 7:24 PM on August 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
The only super-sexist thing that got TV airplay was the "thick makeup" thing by Ishihara Shintaro, which doesn't require any additional context because the guy is feces that has somehow attained the ability to walk and talk.
posted by Bugbread at 7:24 PM on August 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
... she hasn't been elected for her politics in a general sense. From the reporting I've seen on TV it's mainly been about cutting waste, opening nursery schools, and curbing Olympic overspending.
Yeah, to be clear, the cutting waste/nursery schools/etc. is what I meant by the politics that got her elected as mayor of Tokyo. Her platform and stances on Tokyo-relevant issues and all that. I def. didn't mean to imply that the people of Tokyo elected her because of her ethnic nationalist/revisionist views, regardless of whether they share them.
posted by griphus at 8:28 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, to be clear, the cutting waste/nursery schools/etc. is what I meant by the politics that got her elected as mayor of Tokyo. Her platform and stances on Tokyo-relevant issues and all that. I def. didn't mean to imply that the people of Tokyo elected her because of her ethnic nationalist/revisionist views, regardless of whether they share them.
posted by griphus at 8:28 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
(I mean, at least I hope they didn't. My list of locations electing explicitly ethnic nationalist leaders is growing at an uncomfortable pace.)
posted by griphus at 8:34 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 8:34 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
thefoxgod: "The Western press has mostly focused on (a) she's a woman, and (b) her past. I read some articles on NYT and other places that spent almost no time discussing the actual campaign / statements / positions."Usually when I go vote, I pay more attentions to politicians actions (aka "their past") than their statement-of-intent du jour.
posted by brokkr at 1:59 AM on August 2, 2016
Well, good for you. But keep in mind that that's not the case for most voters for local elections in Japan, so it would be a bad idea to look at her being elected as indicating that the Japanese voting public shares her historical revisionist beliefs. (I'm not saying you're doing that, but it's a fairly common phenomenon in the Western press.)
posted by Bugbread at 2:10 AM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Bugbread at 2:10 AM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
What you're telling me is that they don't necessarily share her appalling revisionist beliefs, they just don't care that she has them. As long as she makes the trains run on time, I guess.
posted by brokkr at 2:22 AM on August 2, 2016
posted by brokkr at 2:22 AM on August 2, 2016
What I'm telling you is that not only don't they necessarily share her appalling revisionist beliefs, for the most part I suspect they don't even know that she has them. That's why I said her historical revisionist views may be items of public record, but I doubt they're really items of public knowledge. And while people may delve deeply into the backgrounds of candidates for national elections, candidates for local elections are not scrutinized as closely or reported on as deeply.
You may consider it irresponsible that people don't go check out her past political history, and in that you may be right. But there's a big difference between "Japanese voters don't dig into the beliefs and past history of their local politicians enough" and "Japanese voted a historical revisionist into office because they share her beliefs or are aware of them but don't care about them."
posted by Bugbread at 2:32 AM on August 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
You may consider it irresponsible that people don't go check out her past political history, and in that you may be right. But there's a big difference between "Japanese voters don't dig into the beliefs and past history of their local politicians enough" and "Japanese voted a historical revisionist into office because they share her beliefs or are aware of them but don't care about them."
posted by Bugbread at 2:32 AM on August 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
Thank you, bugbread and thefoxgod for your local insight in this thread. Very interesting.
posted by smoke at 4:16 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by smoke at 4:16 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Bugbread: "You may consider it irresponsible that people don't go check out her past political history, and in that you may be right."Apparently it's not only the people but also the local media who didn't find it relevant, since you're saying her past is not a matter of public knowledge. Logic tells me it's not picked up by local media because they and their readership would find it completely uncontroversial - it's the kind of story political reporters elsewhere would love to run with.
Bugbread: "[W]hile people may delve deeply into the backgrounds of candidates for national elections, candidates for local elections are not scrutinized as closely or reported on as deeply."She's the elected governor for 13 million people. The annual budget of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government is somewhat larger than that of the government of Portugal. Even the small fact that the Guardian reports on the election should give the lie to any pretense of this being just "local".
posted by brokkr at 5:58 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
brokkr: "Logic tells me it's not picked up by local media because they and their readership would find it completely uncontroversial"
And experience tells me that's not it. The local media picked up (with glowing approval) the passing of Japan's first hate speech law earlier this year, and its use in shutting down an anti-Korean protest in June. But you're saying that this audience that finds anti-Korean protests controversial and enjoys watching several days of reporting of anti-Korean protests get smacked down would find Koike's position completely uncontroversial? And that's why the media didn't report on it? What happened to change the general public so completely in one month?
brokkr: "She's the elected governor for 13 million people. The annual budget of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government is somewhat larger than that of the government of Portugal. Even the small fact that the Guardian reports on the election should give the lie to any pretense of this being just "local"."
When I talk about it being "local" I'm not talking about it being locally broadcast, I'm talking about it being a local election for a person who only has power locally, as opposed to nationally or internationally. Torigoe said he was going to get the sales tax reduced and he got totally ridiculed for it because it's a national law, and if elected he would just be the mayor of Tokyo, with no say in national sales tax policy. He stammered a bit about applying soft pressure or trying to implement a system of compensation which would effectively lower the sales tax in Tokyo, but was seen as totally flailing because "he's just the mayor of Tokyo", not part of the national government. People outside of Tokyo are interested in it because of the drama (Masuzoe's spectacular crash and burn, Koike striking out on her own and running against her former party, Torigoe being a celebrity from the start), but they're not interested in any political implications because the mayor of Tokyo doesn't have that kind of power, whether or not Boris Jonson does and whether or not the Tokyo Metropolitan Government's budget makes you think it should.
posted by Bugbread at 6:39 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
And experience tells me that's not it. The local media picked up (with glowing approval) the passing of Japan's first hate speech law earlier this year, and its use in shutting down an anti-Korean protest in June. But you're saying that this audience that finds anti-Korean protests controversial and enjoys watching several days of reporting of anti-Korean protests get smacked down would find Koike's position completely uncontroversial? And that's why the media didn't report on it? What happened to change the general public so completely in one month?
brokkr: "She's the elected governor for 13 million people. The annual budget of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government is somewhat larger than that of the government of Portugal. Even the small fact that the Guardian reports on the election should give the lie to any pretense of this being just "local"."
When I talk about it being "local" I'm not talking about it being locally broadcast, I'm talking about it being a local election for a person who only has power locally, as opposed to nationally or internationally. Torigoe said he was going to get the sales tax reduced and he got totally ridiculed for it because it's a national law, and if elected he would just be the mayor of Tokyo, with no say in national sales tax policy. He stammered a bit about applying soft pressure or trying to implement a system of compensation which would effectively lower the sales tax in Tokyo, but was seen as totally flailing because "he's just the mayor of Tokyo", not part of the national government. People outside of Tokyo are interested in it because of the drama (Masuzoe's spectacular crash and burn, Koike striking out on her own and running against her former party, Torigoe being a celebrity from the start), but they're not interested in any political implications because the mayor of Tokyo doesn't have that kind of power, whether or not Boris Jonson does and whether or not the Tokyo Metropolitan Government's budget makes you think it should.
posted by Bugbread at 6:39 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Logic tells me it's not picked up by local media because they and their readership would find it completely uncontroversial"
Logic tells ME that when someone actually in the area, who has experience with the language and culture tries to explain something, it's a good idea to listen, rather than make ethnocentric comments.
posted by happyroach at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Logic tells ME that when someone actually in the area, who has experience with the language and culture tries to explain something, it's a good idea to listen, rather than make ethnocentric comments.
posted by happyroach at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Bugbread: "That's why I said her historical revisionist views may be items of public record, but I doubt they're really items of public knowledge."
Thanks Bugbread - I wouldn't have realised that just from looking at the foreign press.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 1:42 PM on August 2, 2016
Thanks Bugbread - I wouldn't have realised that just from looking at the foreign press.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 1:42 PM on August 2, 2016
The main reason this story got big traction outside Tokyo is the "woman elected mayor" story, especially for a country with very low numbers of women in elected office. Not because Tokyo mayors have some huge influence on national or foreign policy.
Even my friends/family in Japan were mainly interested for that reason (they don't live in Tokyo, they normally don't care about Tokyo politics at all, but my wife was interested because of the general difficult in women achieving any political office there).
I mean, I've never paid attention to NYC mayoral elections, and I doubt most other Americans pay attention to LA mayoral elections. The state of Texas has a higher budget than Tokyo, but I had to look up who is the current Governor (last I remembered it was Perry). People in Kyushu or Hokkaido don't care much about Tokyo governance, except that now some of them will say "Yay, a woman was elected!" (or, I'm sure, "Ugh, a woman was elected", depending on their gender views).
I wouldn't have realised that just from looking at the foreign press.
I suspect the foreign press picked up on the "first woman mayor" aspect, then filled in with what international readers would relate to (her views on foreign policy and history). No one in the US cares about daycare for Tokyo workers or municipal corruption or Olympic funding details.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:47 PM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Even my friends/family in Japan were mainly interested for that reason (they don't live in Tokyo, they normally don't care about Tokyo politics at all, but my wife was interested because of the general difficult in women achieving any political office there).
I mean, I've never paid attention to NYC mayoral elections, and I doubt most other Americans pay attention to LA mayoral elections. The state of Texas has a higher budget than Tokyo, but I had to look up who is the current Governor (last I remembered it was Perry). People in Kyushu or Hokkaido don't care much about Tokyo governance, except that now some of them will say "Yay, a woman was elected!" (or, I'm sure, "Ugh, a woman was elected", depending on their gender views).
I wouldn't have realised that just from looking at the foreign press.
I suspect the foreign press picked up on the "first woman mayor" aspect, then filled in with what international readers would relate to (her views on foreign policy and history). No one in the US cares about daycare for Tokyo workers or municipal corruption or Olympic funding details.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:47 PM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
thefoxgod: "No one in the US cares about daycare for Tokyo workers or municipal corruption or Olympic funding details."
I'm entirely sure you're right. It's a shame though - I feel like I've read so many iterations of the same "hey Westerner it's time for you to get outraged at an old foreign policy statement by some Japanese politician that you've never heard of" article that I just gloss over that stuff now. It always feels to me like the article is trying to do the "hey, remember that time when the Japanese bombed Darwin? Aren't you angry about a thing that happened decades before you were born?" thing, and it feels kind of gross. In contrast, a beginners guide to the politics and practicalities of the Tokyo childcare system would be awesome to read, but I guess those articles don't get written so often. Like, it was sort of clear from the articles I read that all the mayoral candidates felt that childcare was an important issue, but they didn't give enough context to understand why the candidates were offering different solutions, or what the underlying issues are, so I'm not really sure what to make of it.
Anyway, like smoke says, I really appreciate having perspective provided by folks who know more about Japanese politics. It adds a lot.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 2:25 PM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm entirely sure you're right. It's a shame though - I feel like I've read so many iterations of the same "hey Westerner it's time for you to get outraged at an old foreign policy statement by some Japanese politician that you've never heard of" article that I just gloss over that stuff now. It always feels to me like the article is trying to do the "hey, remember that time when the Japanese bombed Darwin? Aren't you angry about a thing that happened decades before you were born?" thing, and it feels kind of gross. In contrast, a beginners guide to the politics and practicalities of the Tokyo childcare system would be awesome to read, but I guess those articles don't get written so often. Like, it was sort of clear from the articles I read that all the mayoral candidates felt that childcare was an important issue, but they didn't give enough context to understand why the candidates were offering different solutions, or what the underlying issues are, so I'm not really sure what to make of it.
Anyway, like smoke says, I really appreciate having perspective provided by folks who know more about Japanese politics. It adds a lot.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 2:25 PM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Bugbread: "And experience tells me that's not it. The local media picked up (with glowing approval) the passing of Japan's first hate speech law earlier this year, and its use in shutting down an anti-Korean protest in June. But you're saying that this audience that finds anti-Korean protests controversial and enjoys watching several days of reporting of anti-Korean protests get smacked down would find Koike's position completely uncontroversial? And that's why the media didn't report on it? What happened to change the general public so completely in one month?"You're arguing Koike's position would have been interesting to Tokyo voters. Why, in your experience, was it not brought up then?
posted by brokkr at 7:59 AM on August 3, 2016
My personal suspicion is that the media selected "being a woman" as her narrative hook, since Tokyo's never had a female governor before. I think if there had been another woman frontrunner they would have picked up on her hawkishness to differentiate them.
(I keep seeing the election as the first 30 minutes of The Breakfast Club, where you establish that you've got The Brain, The Athlete, The Basket Case, The Princess, and The Criminal, but before you get any deeper than that.)
posted by Bugbread at 3:23 PM on August 3, 2016
(I keep seeing the election as the first 30 minutes of The Breakfast Club, where you establish that you've got The Brain, The Athlete, The Basket Case, The Princess, and The Criminal, but before you get any deeper than that.)
posted by Bugbread at 3:23 PM on August 3, 2016
Actually, I'm going to walk back my position a bit. While I do believe that she was elected by an electorate that was ignorant of her historical views, as opposed to supportive or uncaring, I will say that I suspect that even if the electorate had known about her historical views, she would have still been elected, but not with the 17% lead she did in this election. After all, Ishihara Shintaro was governor from 1999 to 2012, and he was far more right-wing than her. Her views would have created controversy, but not enough to keep her from winning. So, yes, in that sense while they don't necessarily share her appalling revisionist beliefs, if they knew about them they probably wouldn't have cared enough that she has them to keep her from gaining office. Possibly part of this is that Ishihara was in office for 13 years and nothing really changed as a result of it. I've heard about more blowback against foreigners in the U.S. from Trump just running for office than I've felt or heard about living in Tokyo during the entire period that Ishihara was actually in office.
And coming back to why they didn't report on her views, I suspect Ishihara may be one reason. From the media's point of view, that angle's been done. There's no novelty. If that was all they had to go with, then they probably would have gone with it, but they had a fresh angle, instead, her being a woman.
I guess what kind of set me off was the way it looked like this was being cast in the Western media as an example of an upsurge in right-wing imperialist militarism among the Japanese people. I do think that there is an upsurge in right wing militarism among Japanese politicians, but the Japanese people are still steadfastly pacifist. Yes, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but consider that the U.S. electorate strongly favors the middle class yet elects politicians that crush the middle class. There's a similar gap in Japan between the beliefs of the voters and the beliefs of the people they are electing.
posted by Bugbread at 4:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
And coming back to why they didn't report on her views, I suspect Ishihara may be one reason. From the media's point of view, that angle's been done. There's no novelty. If that was all they had to go with, then they probably would have gone with it, but they had a fresh angle, instead, her being a woman.
I guess what kind of set me off was the way it looked like this was being cast in the Western media as an example of an upsurge in right-wing imperialist militarism among the Japanese people. I do think that there is an upsurge in right wing militarism among Japanese politicians, but the Japanese people are still steadfastly pacifist. Yes, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but consider that the U.S. electorate strongly favors the middle class yet elects politicians that crush the middle class. There's a similar gap in Japan between the beliefs of the voters and the beliefs of the people they are electing.
posted by Bugbread at 4:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but consider that the U.S. electorate strongly favors the middle class yet elects politicians that crush the middle class. There's a similar gap in Japan between the beliefs of the voters and the beliefs of the people they are electing.
Yes, absolutely. And in my experience the amount of political discussion and engagement is much lower in Japan than the US, which makes this disparity even easier to achieve. The people I've talked to say they are used to very slow change in Japan, and thus are not really worried about the outcomes of elections having the kind of effect we're used to in the US (after all, Japan had a long period of revolving Prime Ministers where it did seem to not be a big deal). There does seem to be some reason to think maybe this time is different, but I think a lot of people are maybe not paying much attention to that.
(Of course, the US Presidential election is probably one of the longest and most visible political campaigns in the world, especially this year, so the contrast is pretty sharp)
posted by thefoxgod at 8:25 PM on August 3, 2016
Yes, absolutely. And in my experience the amount of political discussion and engagement is much lower in Japan than the US, which makes this disparity even easier to achieve. The people I've talked to say they are used to very slow change in Japan, and thus are not really worried about the outcomes of elections having the kind of effect we're used to in the US (after all, Japan had a long period of revolving Prime Ministers where it did seem to not be a big deal). There does seem to be some reason to think maybe this time is different, but I think a lot of people are maybe not paying much attention to that.
(Of course, the US Presidential election is probably one of the longest and most visible political campaigns in the world, especially this year, so the contrast is pretty sharp)
posted by thefoxgod at 8:25 PM on August 3, 2016
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posted by Fizz at 8:39 AM on August 1, 2016