There’s only one way for us to win this / Provoke outrage, outright
August 29, 2016 8:52 AM Subscribe

Donny is flopping about on immigration and his "deportation force," and the view of Donald as a bigot are solidifying, as Hillary's camp keeps up the race-themed attack on Donnie. Meanwhile, Donny bought $10 million in ads for this week, his biggest buy yet, focusing on the economy. Ads will air in battleground states, including Colorado and Virginia, where Clinton’s top aides — citing the growth in minority communities and college-educated white voters — feel confident enough to pull local ads. And to keep things lively, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton trade jabs over their health. With a bit more than 70 days to go, it's too soon for Hillary to run out the clock, so let's go, get back on your feet!
posted by filthy light thief (3415 comments total) 92 users marked this as a favorite

Is there a reason Trump has to have three different names here?
posted by psoas at 8:57 AM on August 29, 2016 [38 favorites]

Good post, but needs more @AP_Headlines:

Polls Tighten as Nation Struggles With Decision Between Non White Male and Global Crisis

Clinton Camp Unable to Disprove That Trump is God, Trump Doubles Down

Trump Doing Great With The Blacks, Per Trump Source

posted by tonycpsu at 8:57 AM on August 29, 2016 [70 favorites]

Thank you for the new thread, flt!

Found in the @rollcall photo archive: Sen. Paul Simon fixing @alfranken 's bow tie in 1991

So our answer to last thread's bow tie argument is Al Franken.
posted by stolyarova at 8:58 AM on August 29, 2016 [21 favorites]

My phone thanks you, flt.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:58 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Gah. I was just about to post a reminder about AP_Headlines.
Clinton Aide Marital Spat to be Campaign Issue When Donald Trump Gets Phone Back
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:59 AM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]

A Weiner is going to be an important part of this news cycle and not in a way I expected, that's for sure.
posted by Tevin at 9:00 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Sad!
posted by y2karl at 9:01 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

I went looking through the Twitter feed of Barbara Res, a former Trump Org Executive VP and author of Alone on the 68th Floor. Some particularly interesting tweets:

You heard it here first: Trump will fire KellyAnne, blame push back he is getting now on her. He will make Katrina Pierson campaign chief.

@Rebelicon Absolutely. He will not answer any questions, just attack Hillary, claim he won and have his trolls spin it, then avoid any more [debates]

Trump says "Hillary doesn't have the stamina . . believe me" Someone once said, "I wouldn't believe Trump if his tongue were notarized."

Trump will not read reports or take briefings. He is going to go with his gut. It's how he ran company but he USED to have good ppl not now.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:02 AM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]

A Weiner is going to be an important part of this news cycle and not in a way I expected, that's for sure.

I think a weiner has been an important part of the news cycle ever since he won New Hampshire.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Found in the @rollcall photo archive: Sen. Paul Simon fixing @alfranken 's bow tie in 1991

This is not the ~~droid~~ Paul Simon I was looking for.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Only ten weeks left of this insufferable bullshit. Or, you know... ten weeks and four to eight years.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

Is there a reason Trump has to have three different names here?

It's not an irrational notion that Trmp was going for the Gollum and Smeagol bad/evil thing and overshot to three forms of evil.
posted by meinvt at 9:04 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Is there a reason Trump has to have three different nicknames here?

Yeah, if we stopped using silly nicknames for Trump in these election threads, I wouldn't miss them.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 9:05 AM on August 29, 2016 [53 favorites]

My favorite joke I've read is that Anthony Weiner's continued existence is proof against all of those conspiracy theories that the Clinton's have people killed.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:06 AM on August 29, 2016 [96 favorites]

well now that Huma Abedin is getting divorced it's hypocritical for Democrats to go after Steve Bannon's DV history with his ex-wife, is probably a real talking point getting rolled out right now
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:06 AM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

> [from last thread] what exactly is his plan to curb gun violence in cities?

My guess
1) [Bill] Clinton-esque lots more cops
2) Guliani & Bratton stop & frisk [or Toronto carding for another example]
3) not suing police departments in federal court for civil rights violations and seeking consent decrees with federal oversight.
posted by morganw at 9:07 AM on August 29, 2016

"Is there a reason Trump has to have three different names here?"

He has only one true name and that is Dinild Trimp.
posted by komara at 9:07 AM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]

Anthony Weiner has serious impulse control problems around sex. The choices Huma Abedin has made are the right ones for her--she has nothing of which to be ashamed in this matter.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:07 AM on August 29, 2016 [54 favorites]

If Huma Abedin's personal life is off limits then so is Steve Bannon's.

posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

if we stopped using silly nicknames

Shitmittens was very popular for Romney in MeFi 4 years ago, so there is a bit of precedent here. Considering how much more nicknameable this over-ripe orange is, it's at least understandable.
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm actually just bothered by the Donnie/Donny consistency.

Also my yard sign has not yet arrived, c'mon Hilary people it's been three weeks.

I've had to fend off a fair number of donation calls too, look guys, I have a monthly donation going that's all I've got to give.
posted by emjaybee at 9:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Only ten weeks left of this insufferable bullshit. Or, you know... ten weeks and four to eight years.

I have some terrible news for you about every other election cycle after that until we finally come to our senses and elect giant meteor.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

btw if you're a fan of presidential candidate fan art, the Hillary Clinton subreddit banner is pretty cool right now
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [24 favorites]

Mind you, I fully expect Trump to complain about the election being stolen, not concede for a while and possibly even demand recounts in some places. Which is fine, but I do hope Hillary makes a comment about "Oh, is still saying President Obama isn't a citizen?" She won't do it, but in my fanfic she totally does.

The big questions is where the Senate will flip and if so, by how much?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:09 AM on August 29, 2016

Can we respect Huma Abedin's wishes, and not create our own derails and hot-takes on the matter?

He was a jerk. She's leaving him. The media will handle this poorly. End of story.
posted by schmod at 9:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [70 favorites]

psoas: Is there a reason Trump has to have three different names here?

Personal house style, in which I prefer to call him Donnie and Donny, in the same sentence if possible. Trump is his brand, and I'll let him keep that.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:11 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Still calling it for Hillary, and for it to be decided by midnight on election night.

Everything is just fretting and spending obscene amounts of money. The big question is what comes next, ie after Hillaru officially becomes President.

If there is a benevolent omnipresence to the universe, the landslide will be big enough to make Mitch McTurtle the Senate minority leader and end this damned Supreme Court appointment delay.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:11 AM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]

btw if you're a fan of presidential candidate fan art, the Hillary Clinton subreddit banner is pretty cool right now

Who's the artist?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:11 AM on August 29, 2016

if we stopped using silly nicknames for Trump in these election threads, I wouldn't miss them.

Yeah, it feels really juvenile. Adding an adjective to the beginning of his name a la Charles Pierce doesn't really bother me for some reason.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

@AP_Headlines

[fake], for those just joining us.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

I'm a person with a documented high tolerance for mockery of public figures, but we ought to be able to leave Abedin alone entirely, I would think.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

How likely is a Dem Senate?
posted by Monochrome at 9:12 AM on August 29, 2016

Who's the artist?

44757
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:13 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

That said I've had a WordReplacer turning his name into 'Turnip' for over a year now, to the point that I don't even see it. So I have no room to talk.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:13 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

end this damned Supreme Court appointment delay.

Democrats using the nuclear option? Bestill my beating heart.

If this happens I'll eat my left shoe.
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

That seems unfair to turnips, turnips are useful.
posted by emjaybee at 9:14 AM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

aspersioncast: Adding an adjective to the beginning of his name a la Charles Pierce doesn't really bother me for some reason.

Interesting. I prefer a minor diminutive to "Dishonest Donald," because it feels to me like you're trying to make a new nickname stick, whereas Donnie and/or Donny is a less formal version of his chosen Donald.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:14 AM on August 29, 2016

How likely is a Dem Senate?
posted by Monochrome at 9:12 AM on August 29 [+] [!]

Last time I checked Sam Wang's PEC thing a bare Dem majority was very likely, and that was maybe sometime after the DNC.

In my head right now it's motherfucking landslide time.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:15 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

I've had a WordReplacer turning his name into 'Turnip' for over a year now

Mine turns it into "some rich asshole."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:15 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

I like to go with plain old Trump. Sink the man, sink the brand. Sink it forever.
posted by mochapickle at 9:16 AM on August 29, 2016 [72 favorites]

If this happens I'll eat my left shoe.

What about your right shoe?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:17 AM on August 29, 2016

Democrats using the nuclear option? Bestill my beating heart.

If this happens I'll eat my left shoe.
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on August 29 [+] [!]

I would have said the same thing about calling out dogwhistles as racism and bigotry not that long ago. Hillary's incarnation of the Democratic Party seems decidedly more ass-kicking than previous iterations. I am...optimistic.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:17 AM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]

This WashPo article from last week has some good breakdowns of Virginia polling between different regions and demographic groups. The takeaway is that he is doing worse than Romney in every region of the state except in the rural central and western portions, and he's doing worse than Romney in every demographic group, including the white, non-college educated men and the military. But hey, keep buying those ads in a state where's you're polling 10 points behind.
posted by peeedro at 9:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Monochrome: How likely is a Dem Senate?

schadenfrau: Last time I checked Sam Wang's PEC thing a bare Dem majority was very likely, and that was maybe sometime after the DNC.

Today’s Senate seat-count histogram *snapshot* -- Senate snapshot (49 polls): Dem+Ind: 51, GOP: 49, Meta-margin: D +2.2%, Nov. win probability: Dem. 72%
posted by filthy light thief at 9:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Is there a reason Trump has to have three different names here?

Don't forget "Amnesty Don".
posted by Kabanos at 9:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here are the artist's imgur reuploads of several of the lovely sketches.
posted by stolyarova at 9:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

Still calling it for Hillary, and for it to be decided by midnight on election night.

Bruh, you still owe me cookies from the last election's bet. "Remember me, Mr. Blatcher? Mefi, November 6, 2012. If you're going to shoot cookies at a cashman, Mr. Blatcher, you'd better be prepared to finish the job."*

*this is a far side joke.
posted by cashman at 9:19 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

aspersioncast: "Adding an adjective to the beginning of his name a la Charles Pierce doesn't really bother me for some reason."

Oh, I find Pierce near unreadable because of that kind of thing.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:19 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

feels to me like you're trying to make a new nickname stick

Ugh that totally makes sense; it does feel like something right out of his playbook.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:19 AM on August 29, 2016

And here's the House polling margin.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:19 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I like to go with plain old Trump. Sink the man, sink the brand. Sink it forever.

Does he have anything that can be boycotted? His brand is on a lot of things, but it seems to be licensing deals only.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:20 AM on August 29, 2016

He licenses his name, and if his name becomes unappealing, those deals will stop.
posted by mochapickle at 9:21 AM on August 29, 2016 [24 favorites]

Bruh, you still owe me cookies from the last election's bet. "Remember me, Mr. Blatcher? Mefi, November 6, 2012. If you're going to shoot cookies at a cashman, Mr. Blatcher, you'd better be prepared to finish the job.

You've mentioned this before, but I though YOU owed *me* cookies for that 2012 call? Is there a comment you can link to?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:23 AM on August 29, 2016

I'd be willing to bet we see the nuclear option if we have a Dem senate.

No offers of footwear eating, though.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:23 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

He licenses his name, and if his name becomes unappealing, those deals will stop.

Ooooh, I would love to help! Except...I already avoided everything with is name on it.

Can I just contact the manufacturers who have these deals and tell them that I think their own image is diminished by their association with him? Or is there a better tack here?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:24 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

His name is already pretty unappealing to me, but I'm not part of the highly-coveted "gullible, angry racist" demographic.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:24 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Josh Marshall has a new piece about the coup within the PoT(T) being finished: Takeover Complete

Over the last few years, as 'government shutdown' went from being a crazy ass thing Newt Gingrich did twenty years ago - never to be tried again - to the top item on the Republican policy agenda, you could hear more and more Republicans saying something like this: We thought it was this great thing that we had our own cable news network as an arm of the GOP or the conservative movement, echoing talking points, spinning the news. But at a certain point we realized Fox News wasn't working for us. We're working for Fox News. [...]

Several months ago I described the build of 'nonsense debt' and 'hate debt' in the GOP which made Trump's takeover possible. Indeed, whether genuine or merely opportunistic, you now have more than a few Never Trump conservative media personalities stepping forward to explain how the rightwing media echo-chamber created a framework in which you are immediately discredited if you do not subscribe to a series of demonstrably false claims, non-facts and theories. And there you have it: Years of build up of fantastical conspiracy theories, completely unrealistic political goals, all leaving the party ungovernable and vulnerable to a takeover by someone like Donald Trump who was willing to satisfy the demand the institutional GOP had studiously cultivated but was both unwilling and unable to satiate.

As usual, Josh has a really insightful piece demonstrating support for his hypothesis of "nonsense debt" by highlighting points figures like Charlie Sykes have made. The PoT(T)'s propaganda arm became the party's body, while the so-called establishment are simply flailing, ineffectual limbs.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2016 [46 favorites]

Because this still hasn't been fixed yet: The GOP's Stealth War Against Voters (August 24, 2016)

The latest tool: Election officials in more than two dozen states have compiled lists of citizens whom they allege could be registered in more than one state – thus potentially able to cast multiple ballots – and eligible to be purged from the voter rolls.

The data is processed through a system called the Interstate Voter Registration Crosscheck Program, which is being promoted by a powerful Republican operative, and its lists of potential duplicate voters are kept confidential. But Rolling Stone obtained a portion of the list and the names of 1 million targeted voters. According to our analysis, the Crosscheck list disproportionately threatens solid Democratic constituencies: young, black, Hispanic and Asian-American voters – with some of the biggest possible purges underway in Ohio and North Carolina, two crucial swing states with tight Senate races.

From the post about their respective health records: Clinton was the first presidential candidate to release her medical records during the primary, presenting a detailed document from her physician that outlined medical conditions including hyperactive thyroid and seasonal allergies.

Finally, a politician who will represent my interests with respect to shitty thyroids and overactive immune systems.
posted by pie ninja at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

Democrats using the nuclear option? Bestill my beating heart.

If this happens I'll eat my left shoe.

At this point it's clear that McConnell is not dealing in good faith, but that he will simply work to obstruct whenever possible. I think the nuclear option on judicial appointments is one way out of this looming constitutional crisis, and hopefully we'll see Dems have the spine to use it.

It's been considered before.

Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., is irked that Democrats have used filibusters to block 10 of Bush’s choices for federal appeals courts.

He’s vowed not to let it happen this year, particularly with the possibility that there could soon be a Supreme Court nominee to consider. But to carry out that promise might require changing Senate rules that now allow just 41 members to block any judicial nominee.

posted by Existential Dread at 9:25 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

if his name becomes unappealing, those deals will stop.

Fingers, eyes, and legs all crossed.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:26 AM on August 29, 2016

That seems unfair to turnips, turnips are useful.

But when turned into Irish jack o lanterns, they do sort of look like Trump.
posted by maxsparber at 9:27 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

The fact that we got the nuclear option on non-SC judges already means it's a lower bar for a change.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 AM on August 29, 2016

Is there a reason Trump has to have three different names here?

Using nicknames avoids accidentally summoning him when calling his name three times.
posted by cazoo at 9:28 AM on August 29, 2016 [77 favorites]

You've mentioned this before, but I though YOU owed *me* cookies for that 2012 call? Is there a comment you can link to?

I'll memail you, so as not to derail the thread with the talk of delicious, delicious cookies.
posted by cashman at 9:30 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Oh man Diane Rehm is talking at length with a white supremacist caller and it's surreal.
posted by Taft at 9:33 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

She's what?!

Please tell me she's dismissive.
posted by stolyarova at 9:34 AM on August 29, 2016

Oh jesus he's a full-blown alt-righter.
posted by stolyarova at 9:35 AM on August 29, 2016

@realDonaldTrump: Inner-city crime is reaching record levels. African-Americans will vote for Trump because they know I will stop the slaughter going on!

@paulschwartzman: NYC homicides. 1990=2262 2015=352

DC homicides 1990=474 2015=119

Chicago homicides 1990=851 2015=488
posted by Existential Dread at 9:36 AM on August 29, 2016 [71 favorites]

I vote in the future we all refer to 2016 as "the gas leak season"
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:37 AM on August 29, 2016 [31 favorites]

It was Jared Taylor. WTF Diane Rehm why are you giving these people a platform?!
posted by stolyarova at 9:37 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

She's on with Jared Taylor, right?
posted by mochapickle at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2016

That Rehm guest is Jared Taylor, editor of American Renaissance which describes itself as a "race-realist, white advocacy organization".
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2016

Hillaru

Picturing a WRX with a big H logo on it...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

He's so gross.
posted by mochapickle at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2016

Has Donald Trump Released His Taxes?
posted by andoatnp at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Triple jinx.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just realized I've been confusing Huma Abedin with Amal Alamuddin for, like, months now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:45 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Can I just contact the manufacturers who have these deals and tell them that I think their own image is diminished by their association with him? Or is there a better tack here?

Maybe contact advertisers/sponsors of news shows Donald Trump frequently appears on and let them know how often (or how little) one sees their ads?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:45 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh man Diane Rehm is talking at length with a white supremacist caller and it's surreal.

It was Jared Taylor. WTF Diane Rehm why are you giving these people a platform?!

I'm on record as thinking Diane Rehm sucks, but isn't sunlight the best disinfectant with these assholes?

Let the cretin go on, spew bile, have the rest of the panelists and Ms. Rehm treat him with open contempt while simultaneously eviscerating him. I mean, it's NPR. I don't think they've got a large white nationalist listener base who would otherwise be amenable to his arguments.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:45 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

So we're pretty clear that the Trump campaign is assuming that his supporters have no more recent or direct experience of the inner city or African-Americans than throwing out their kid's copy of The Chronic on cassette and maybe, MAYBE an episode of Law & Order from before Lennie Briscoe died, right?
posted by Captain l'escalier at 9:46 AM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

He is going to go with his gut.

To paraphrase a wise man, his gut has shit for brains.
posted by jonmc at 9:46 AM on August 29, 2016 [50 favorites]

I may have mixed metaphors there. Clearly soap is the best disinfectant for assholes.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:47 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

isn't sunlight the best disinfectant with these assholes?

I would have thought so, but it really appears otherwise. It seems to be empowering them. I fear we are seeing the beginnings of openly racist or 'racialist' advocacy groups.
posted by readery at 9:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]

I'm on record as thinking Diane Rehm sucks, but isn't sunlight the best disinfectant with these assholes?

I'm inclined to say no, given what the Trump candidacy has done to embolden the collection of neo-nazis, MRA types, and other assorted assholes that constitute the alt-right. These people have every right to stand out on a corner and spew their hate speech, but I don't see boosting their signal by having them on an NPR program as a good thing.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm on record as thinking Diane Rehm sucks, but isn't sunlight the best disinfectant with these assholes?

I was wondering what the response was so I moseyed over to the post about it on her official Facebook page. It's a mix of people who are surprised and horrified that this kind of white supremacy still exists, people who are upset that she didn't call out Taylor's worst assertions (for example, about white people being genetically different), and a sliver of Trump supporters who insist they aren't racist.
posted by stolyarova at 9:50 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Personally, I think it's impossible to understand white supremacy without having some form of reporting/exposure to their thinking. Not pleasant, but a picture of reality.

people who are surprised and horrified that this kind of white supremacy still exists

That's exactly why it needs to be out there.
posted by Miko at 9:52 AM on August 29, 2016 [37 favorites]

Trump's African-American outreach...whoo boy.

My overall impression about the "pivot" is that someone on his new team sat him down and actually managed to convince him that he needs to improve his image among women and minorities if he actually wants to win. And he took that advice to heart, and he's going for it with gusto. Good news for his campaign, right? Nope, because of course he's incapable of accepting advice with any finer nuance than "make black people like you", and of course he's going to do it in the most clueless, tone-deaf, transparently pandering, cringeworthy, offensive way possible. He's too simple and ignorant to be Machiavellian.

And, I honestly think he's incapable of the kind of empathy and theory-of-mind that would be needed to understand why his style of outreach is not only ineffective, but actually insulting and counterproductive. He genuinely doesn't understand that other people have their own experiences and values and thought processes, which may not include exalting Donald Trump's every whim. He's never needed to understand that. It's evident in everything he does - people are just frustratingly uncooperative machines to him.

I'd feel sorry for him if he weren't one if the most dangerous people in the world right now.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:53 AM on August 29, 2016 [50 favorites]

Tablet ran an artcile recently by a Jewish guy who said he's alt right, and the comments filled up with, no you aren't, we hate Jews, and one guy saying we would kill you all if we could.

One of the Tablet editors argued it is important to see this stuff and know it exists. I argue that they gave an unmoderated forum for antisemties to clap each other on the back for trolling Jews.

Sometimes the best disinfectant is disinfectant. You know: Destroy the infection, rather than give it a place to grow.
posted by maxsparber at 9:54 AM on August 29, 2016 [28 favorites]

Emily Cahn: In which @realDonaldTrump says cheating men can't be trusted with national security.
posted by airish at 9:55 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Trump is going to win.
posted by charred husk at 9:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Tablet ran an article recently by a Jewish guy who said he's alt right

Is there a reason we're not calling them the alt-wrong?
posted by dersins at 9:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

Alt-reich has a better ring to it.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:58 AM on August 29, 2016 [51 favorites]

isn't sunlight the best disinfectant with these assholes?

Not in this election season. Ordinarily, yes, this would work because the media would (okay, might) call out the racism and other batshittery for what it is.

This year? This year most of the media is committed to false equivalencies in the name of "balance" or whatever. This year journalists are bending over backwards to continue the "both sides" narrative when that's demonstrably bullshit. The fact that we're even using a term like "alt right" to describe out-and-out white supremacists says a lot for how far that goes. Even Rachel Maddow is patting crazy Trump surrogates on the hand so they'll keep coming onto her show.

None of this is good. At all.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:59 AM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

Is there a reason we're not calling them the alt-wrong?

I refuse to call them the alt-right. Why let racists give themselves a hip-sounding rebranding?
posted by maxsparber at 9:59 AM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

That's exactly why it needs to be out there.

This thinking assumes that a majority of the people who don't already understand / haven't confronted white supremacy are going to witness it being talked about in the mainstream media and be taken aback by it, or express skepticism toward it. I think the more likely scenario is that this will normalize it, because the people on these shows aren't the hood-wearing types, they're people with some amount of academic credentials, sitting at think tanks with professional-sounding names. They're still spewing the same racist themes, but with bullshit statistics that have to suddenly be debunked on live radio/television instead of being shouted into the void as they ought to be. I just don't think it's a winning move to expect them to hoist themselves by their own petard.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on August 29, 2016 [17 favorites]

This year? This year most of the media is committed to false equivalencies in the name of "balance" or whatever. This year journalists are bending over backwards to continue the "both sides" narrative when that's demonstrably bullshit. The fact that we're even using a term like "alt right" to describe out-and-out white supremacists says a lot for how far that goes. Even Rachel Maddow is patting crazy Trump surrogates on the hand so they'll keep coming onto her show.

Can someone explain why this is happening, exactly? What happened to the press and the media's ability to act as a social antibody to unacceptable ideas?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:02 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

A done deal in August is death for ratings for the next few months. So they pretend it's still a race, and help it become one again.
posted by yellowbinder at 10:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [24 favorites]

leotrotsky you're the type of MeFite I would expect to have a reasonable, thoughtful answer to the question, not the one who's posing it.
posted by Tevin at 10:03 AM on August 29, 2016

Tablet ran an artcile recently by a Jewish guy who said he's alt right

I hope he's enjoying the company of his new friends in the comments section, and observing their loyalty to him as a member of the cause. If he's young and just sheltered, maybe this will help him and other young readers.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Stuart Stevens, chief strategist to Romney's 2012 campaign.
posted by Jacob G at 10:05 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Can someone explain why this is happening, exactly? What happened to the press and the media's ability to act as a social antibody to unacceptable ideas?

The Nation: How False Equivalence Is Distorting the 2016 Election Coverage
posted by tonycpsu at 10:05 AM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

NPR ran this piece this morning, which was mildly terrifying to say the least. Some choice quotes from Trump supporters they interviewed:

In regards to Trump's unclear message: "I listen to half of what Trump says," Callahan explains. "And then I move on because you have to get people's attention."

Does it matter whether Trump deports everyone or offers amnesty? (Fairly opposing viewpoints, I would say -ed): Boz says illegal immigration is a problem, but when it comes to policy, he trusts Trump to figure that out. "Whatever he wants to do, I'll back him. That's all I can say. It's tough," Boz says.

Again - amnesty, really? "That's a negotiating point," Kiefer says. "Remember, he wrote the book The Art of the Deal."

Why is Trump apparently changing his position? "Obviously people are telling him that he has to come more to the middle to not offend young white women like you, who are college-educated and just think he's an evil man," Delaberta says.

Does anything Trump do matter? "He could shoot someone on Broadway and I would still vote for him," says Judy Callahan.

Pressed on whether she meant that literally, Callahan laughs.

"Well, only if he just, if he just wounded them. We'll just let him wound 'em," Callahan jokes. "No, what I'm trying to say to you is, the people who are here today, they're going to vote for Trump."
posted by backseatpilot at 10:06 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

Can someone explain why this is happening, exactly? What happened to the press and the media's ability to act as a social antibody to unacceptable ideas?

Well, speaking as a member of the press, that's the myth we like to tell ourselves. But the truth is that there are a lot of myths in journalism, some of which actually wind up detracting from our ability to moderate discussion. One of them is the myth of fairness and impartiality, where we are not the arbiters of truth, but merely provide a forum for balancing viewpoints. This is easily gamed by people who want to push the overton window in their direction, so they just pick an extremist viewpoint in opposition to a moderate viewpoint and all of a sudden the press readjust the balance, treating both sides as equal.

The second is a desire to treat an election as a horse race. In this circumstance, the racist right is more interesting as potential Trump voters than as a social ill, and so they get a lot of media time. That media time might be somewhat disapproving, but for a right wing base that considers media disapproval to be a badge of honor, this actually helps authenticate them to fellow travelers. And so, without being prepared to engage in an in-depth look at the so-called alt-right, the media is actually benefiting them by acting as a slightly disapproving press organ.
posted by maxsparber at 10:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [64 favorites]

Can someone explain why this is happening, exactly? What happened to the press and the media's ability to act as a social antibody to unacceptable ideas?

If you haven't seen or read the Documentary/Book Merchants of Doubt, it's a good start on getting a handle on what happened over the last 30-40 years to create this media environment where absolute bullshit gets to play on the same field as well-established fact. The short answer is: a PR blitz in support of short-term profits at the expense of humanity has eliminated our ability to filter actual expertise from bullshitspertise.
posted by dis_integration at 10:10 AM on August 29, 2016 [29 favorites]

Whenever I read Trump claiming he'll keep us safe, I keep expecting his next sentence to be "do you have stairs in your house?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:15 AM on August 29, 2016 [28 favorites]

I wonder a lot about how much the slow death of journalism is impacting the way they're playing now. I wonder if they would have been this desperate for ratings if we still had paid classified ads, for example.
posted by corb at 10:17 AM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

Like many of us, I have a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic family member.
(from the last thread.)

Should we call them members of the RSHX community? I think they'd hate it, but we can do things like having symposiums around 'Mitigating harm in the RSHX community' and applying rigorous standards of fairness and equality to them, on the grounds that they're a vanishing part of our culture and need love and care in their twilight years.

Or they could be the Homophobic AntichoiceTransphobic Evangelical Racist Sexist community, but I think that would be an unfortunate acronym.
posted by Devonian at 10:17 AM on August 29, 2016 [43 favorites]

I say we just stop talking about details of the election, except on comedy shows, and otherwise discuss character motivations and minutia about or involving "Mr. Robot" for the next couple of months. I want to know what the hell Angela is up to, personally. She's a enigma.
posted by raysmj at 10:20 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

This thinking assumes that a majority of the people who don't already understand / haven't confronted white supremacy are going to witness it being talked about in the mainstream media

We have plenty of evidence that that is the case (viz, Facebook thread from the Rehm show mentioned above). Heck, I have it in my personal life.

I think MeFites, in particular the political animals who tend to inhabit these threads, don't really have the strongest sense for the wider popular conversation. If you step away and begin talking election with people who don't follow the news cycle much, don't hang out online, have never heard of Breitbart or 538, and so on, you might be surprised at how little a 'done deal' this is and how much less many Americans know about what's going on in this election than we and our cohort do. I used to hate it when people talked about MetaFilter having an 'echo chamber' effect, and I still disagree that it's an ideological echo chamber, but there is a real sense in which #internetoutrageoftheday has very little impact outside focused online channels with a strong political lean. That's one reason having these factions represented on radio - which has a much more diverse listener base - is a good thing.

I don't disagree that false equivalence is a problem, and I'm not going to go to the mat on this issue of the particular guy on the particular show, but I also think that if it's okay for us to talk about supremacists and know exactly who they are and what they have to say and what their web channels promulgate, it's ok for radio hosts to do so, too.
posted by Miko at 10:20 AM on August 29, 2016 [39 favorites]

Stuart Stevens, chief strategist to Romney's 2012 campaign.

Originally read this as Sufjan Stevens, and thought to myself
"No wonder Romney lost—that guy's 50 state strategy stalled out after only the first two."
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:21 AM on August 29, 2016 [112 favorites]

This election has done more to dissuade me from the vague, positive feelings I had about my far-flung relatives than any previous one. It's getting exhausting going to Fb and seeing that okay, my sweet Aunt Betty is fucking racist or aw, shit, cool Uncle Dave is going down with the right wing ship and will be posting memes the entire way down.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:23 AM on August 29, 2016 [37 favorites]

I don't disagree that false equivalence is a problem, and I'm not going to go to the mat on this issue of the particular guy on the particular show, but I also think that if it's okay for us to talk about supremacists and know exactly who they are and what they have to say and what their web channels promulgate, it's ok for radio hosts to do so, too.

In some ways Diane Rehm is doing a longer version of the Hillary ad with the KKK. "The reason a lot of Klan members like Donald Trump is that a lot of what he believes we believe in."

She's not raising this asshole up, she's dragging the rest of the right down.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:24 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Josh Marshall has a new piece about the coup within the PoT(T) being finished: Takeover Complete

The PoT(T)? I did RTFA and I still have no idea what this means. A Google web search brings up the Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan. Restricting the search to metafilter.com brings up only this comment in this thread.

Help me out here. Can anyone tell me what the PoT(T) is?
posted by Mothlight at 10:24 AM on August 29, 2016 [23 favorites]

This is a much larger discussion, but: after witnessing this shitshow so far, I'm interested in ideas about how we can improve the media's ability to fill its proper role in a democracy. Because it's obviously broken.

Part of that is up to the media themselves – but it's not always enough for a journalist to simply have the best intentions and make the best effort. Forces are exerted on the industry which are beyond any one outlet's control: profit motives, fragmentation of the media into ideological echo chambers (assisted by the Internet), a (partly deserved) lack of public trust in the media as a whole, innumerable game and sabotage the system toward their own ends, the general public's limited ability to digest nuance, etc. There are outlets out there who are still doing real, journalism – but .

There is no single solution. But to whatever extent the media was once able to illuminate truth and disinfect with sunlight, the Internet era has eviscerated it. We're gonna need new models, new principles and standards, entirely new ideas about what the media is and how it should work. Because the old ones clearly don't work in the web era.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:24 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

r involving "Mr. Robot" for the next couple of months. I want to know what the hell Angela is up to, personally. She's a enigma.

Totally onboard with any derail into dystopian scifi territory. Think of Angela as a black ops operative from the Bernie camp tunneling into a high level Trump corp executive position. (not that there is any similarity between T corp and E corp.)
posted by sammyo at 10:25 AM on August 29, 2016

>perhaps, then, overt white supremacy is no longer an entirely unacceptable idea, as wrong and bigoted as it is, and as terrible as it is, and as terrifying as it is.

Yeah, but if a newscaster said 'Let's be clear, Trump is the candidate of white supremacists, and the Republican Party is the party of white supremacists,' people would flip their shit. So it's not THAT overt. Yet.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'd link Jon Stewart's "STOP STOP STOP HURTING AMERICA" bit, but it didn't work the first time, so why bother again.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

I think cjelli's point is important. White supremacy has become more acceptable, in large part because the racist right has co-opted and mastered the language of social justice, and has found ways to present their stances as a legitimate, culturally based point of view; they've found ways to discuss their views without using the epithets and obviously extreme proposals that would get them disinvited to national media discussions. In the end, they have these views, and they have persuaded a lot of Americans to support them. It is absolutely palpable - it drives politics and policy even in my own city, let alone in this election.
posted by Miko at 10:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

Whenever I read Trump claiming he'll keep us safe, I keep expecting his next sentence to be "do you have stairs in your house?"

found the goon
posted by rorgy at 10:27 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

I figured PoT stood for Party of Trump, but I'm lost on the second T. Halp?
posted by palomar at 10:28 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

but I also think that if it's okay for us to talk about supremacists and know exactly who they are and what they have to say and what their web channels promulgate, it's ok for radio hosts to do so, too.

Of course it's "ok" for them to do it -- I'm not advocating some kind of gag rule here -- I'm just saying that I don't have the same optimism you seem to that it will lead to more people rejecting white supremacy. Some will, but some will find the ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to the newsletter.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:30 AM on August 29, 2016

I believe the idea was the "Party of Truman (and Trump)" -- or vice versa? -- in the last thread.

I admit I bailed out on Thursday.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:30 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Make the effort.
Vote.
It is important.
'nuff sed

(if you can add to this, memail me. I will include in the next posting)

-----
U.S. Election Assistance Commission: Resources for Voters (eac.gov)
-----
Can I Vote? National Association of Secretaries of State (canivote.org)
-----
Student Voting Guide - Brennan Center for Justice (brennancenter.org)
-----
Campus Vote Project (campusvoteproject.org)
-----
Voting and Elections - Find answers to common questions about voting in the US. (usa.gov)
-----
Early Voting Calendar (vote.org)
-----
Absentee and Early Voting - National Conference of State Legislatures (ncsl.org)
-----
Federal Voting Assistance Program (fvap.gov)
-----
Vote From Abroad Dot Org (votefromabroad.org)
-----
How to Vote in Every State (YouTube Channel | URL links on right side of page)
posted by lampshade at 10:31 AM on August 29, 2016 [39 favorites]

70 days is roughly the entire Canadian election campaign.

I'm so tired of election shit already.
posted by GuyZero at 10:33 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

to whatever extent the media was once able to illuminate truth and disinfect with sunlight

At the risk of continuing this journalism discussion which already pops up on MeFi with discouraging frequency, I think we also need to problematize our idea that the media was ever able to "illuminate truth and disinfect with sunlight." That's an ahistorical idealization of what "the media" has done - not least because "the media" is not monolithic. Today, the media includes everything from screedy ideological quasi-news websites and podcasts to major dailies in international and national circulation to newsmagazines with longform thinkpieces to light-news pubs like Time to massive cable networks to local outlets to national and local news and talk radio. Today as in the past, this "media" represents an incredibly wide range of levels of support for journalistic ideals and explicit or implict ideological bias. 100 years ago, major cities had sometimes a dozen or more competing papers - some union-driven, some anti-union driven, some lefty, some righty, some populist, some intellectual. Even in whatever ideal land people refer to when they speak of how great the media used to be, sure, we had a New York Times but also a Daily News and a New York Post. Television news was remarkable for its control by the few major broadcast networks and, because of their need to maintain market share, walked an incredibly mainstream line in terms of their reporting. We no longer have news outlets like that because market segmentatin rules the day. We live in an age of media fragmentation, and we won't be able to convince "the media," as a whole, to do anything collectively. I think we're only able to select certain outlets that we demand a higher standard from, and attempt, as [paying whenever possible] news consumers to hold them to that standard. But we won't be able to silence, or even influence, what goes on in markets driven by loyalty to a particular segment (e.g., Fox) as non-members of that segment; yet, we'll still have to live in a world in which they influence the views of millions of individuals.

It's that pretty tricky obstacle course we have to navigate, and there is no wholesale solution. I'm still glad to know whatever is being said in fringe outlets that is impacting the course of the nation and insinuating itself into individual views and state and city policies. In fact, it's essential not to pretend it doesn't exist.
posted by Miko at 10:34 AM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

Help me out here. Can anyone tell me what the PoT(T) is?

the potash people are...getting out of hand.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:34 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

AP: PoT(T) Interpretable in Many Different Ways, Experts Say

[fake]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:35 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Some will, but some will find the ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to the newsletter.

This is true, but I'd rather know who they are and who they're listening to. A polity that rests on keeping people in ignorance of particular political views, however offensive to stated national ideals, is not a secure one. The fight for democratic and pluralist values, in my view, has to happen at a different level, and that's not one of not allowing people access to bad ideas, it's assisting them in building the critical thinking skills, historical knowledge, and practices of empathy that will allow them to reject those views.
posted by Miko at 10:36 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

I refuse to call them the alt-right. Why let racists give themselves a hip-sounding rebranding?

I'm completely cool with letting them self-label. It just makes them easier to avoid, and will hopefully lead to more tribal infighting and destabilization of the "right". Kind of like libertarians and Tea Partiers.
posted by mayonnaises at 10:36 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Help me out here. Can anyone tell me what the PoT(T) is?

the potash people are...getting out of hand.

goddamn K Street lobbyists.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

We live in an age of media fragmentation, and we won't be able to convince "the media," as a whole, to do anything collectively. I think we're only able to select certain outlets that we demand a higher standard from, and attempt, as [paying whenever possible] news consumers to hold them to that standard. But we won't be able to silence, or even influence, what goes on in markets driven by loyalty to a particular segment (e.g., Fox) as non-members of that segment; yet, we'll still have to live in a world in which they influence the views of millions of individuals.

Sure -- accept the things you cannot change, but change the things you can. Public radio giving a platform to a white supremacist seems squarely in the latter category.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:37 AM on August 29, 2016

I thought it was "Party of Trump (Potty)." Josh Marshall humor.
posted by stolyarova at 10:37 AM on August 29, 2016

In some ways Diane Rehm is doing a longer version of the Hillary ad with the KKK. "The reason a lot of Klan members like Donald Trump is that a lot of what he believes we believe in."

It's a good plan to win an election, but, I think, a bad plan in the long run. There are people who will just never vote for Hillary. Never ever. And that's fine.

But if you cast the right wing as now really racist, I am not convinced you drive people away from the right. I am worried you let them know that racism is just something they are going to have to be okay with. And there are plenty of right wingers just champing at the bit to tell them why racism is okay.

I mean, the rise of ISIS didn't happen in a vacuum. Now, these are genuinely, insanely awful people, but that's a selling point for them. Because they position themselves as being at war with something worse -- the west -- and when you're at war with the best, it helps to present yourself as being the worst thing ever. The Nazis didn't shy away from imagery that made them terrifying, even though it made them look like baddies. And we're over here telling Muslims that they don't have a place here, which doesn't give them much choice.

People can get onboard with terrible ideas -- even take pride in how terrible they are -- if they think it is in service of defeating something even more terrible And the right has been demonizing liberals, and Clinton specifically, for so long that there are plenty of people who are willing to say, racism? So what? We're trying to halt the destruction of America.

I do not believe in the marketplace of ideas. I don't think there is any real evidence that good ideas beat bad idea, that more and better speech beats bad speech, that sunlight is the best disinfectant. I think the media's job is to act in service of truth, not some imagined idea of "balance," and until they do that, all they are doing is propping up a narrative, and acting as a mouthpiece, for people who are genuinely, actively trying to build a racist right wing. And the time is good for that. They have been wink wink nudge nudged by Trump, who has basically championed their ideas anyway, and now the left is saying "this is the right."

Sure, there will be some Republican moderates who jump ship and vote Democrat. But, in the meanwhile, for those that don't, racism is now officially part of the right wing platform. And many of them have just been waiting for this to finally happen, because, honestly, there are a fuck ton of racists in America who don't want to be polite any more, and everybody is giving them permission to say what they have been thinking all along without any real checks and balances.
posted by maxsparber at 10:37 AM on August 29, 2016 [61 favorites]

racism is now officially part of the right wing platform.

It always has been (and by always I mean post-1950s). I'm happier to know how it works then to have it rest in the whitepapers of political consultants, sold to the public under a veil about "crime" or "broken families" or "welfare dependency."
posted by Miko at 10:41 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

If you step away and begin talking election with people who don't follow the news cycle much, don't hang out online, have never heard of Breitbart or 538, and so on,

I suspect you are right, but it's still very weird for me to imagine this. One of my coworkers is broadly in the same political universe as me – in the sense that, at least, he doesn't like Trump. I don't really talk about politics at work, but I have mentioned a couple of things to him in passing, because it's hard to resist "have you heard about [bugshit insane thing that Trump just did]? what the actual fuck, right?" – and it's quickly become apparent that he's just not following the election at all. I assume that he absorbs stuff from social media, and has learned at least the broad outlines of Trumps odiousness that way. But he is decidedly not someone who is thinking about the election's long-term effects on the Supreme Court, or looking for expert opinion on the candidate's tax and immigration policies, or anything like that.

So, yeah. I do think that 90% of what we discuss here on MeFi is very much "inside baseball" to a lot of folks. It's kind of frustrating to me, because the actual political and legislative effects of our votes should not be considered wonkish and obscure.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:41 AM on August 29, 2016 [24 favorites]

well now that Huma Abedin is getting divorced it's hypocritical for Democrats to go after Steve Bannon's DV history with his ex-wife, is probably a real talking point getting rolled out right now

@maggieNYT: The problem for Clinton team - after Democrats repeatedly pointed to Bannon personal past, going to be hard to argue Weiner is off limits
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:46 AM on August 29, 2016

to whatever extent the media was once able to illuminate truth and disinfect with sunlight

1950s and 60s-era American mythology about larger-than-life heroes like Cronkite and Murrow leave aside that the larger press was mostly complicit with what the American government was doing to destabilize countries overseas, to secure natural resources and to fight a covert war with the Soviets. News reporting has always been a business venture. The goal has always been maintain the audience, and the narrative is often based on what makes a profit.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:46 AM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

Truth needs to make a comeback! I know it can do it.Philosophy aside, it's no big deal to assign truth values to plenty of stuff. Donald Duck, for example, is not the President of NATO. It would be false to argue that Crooked Hilary supports making all Americans get a tattoo of Ultra-Man. People who believe and repeat utter falsehoods do not have their own "reality"; they are either mendacious or dupes.
posted by thelonius at 10:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I do think that 90% of what we discuss here on MeFi is very much "inside baseball" to a lot of folks.

Oh god yeah. And we end up spoiled, too. Even the people who generally agree with us can be annoying. I have a coworker whose heart is in the right place, but their version of political discourse is basically clumsily recounting half-understood bits from last night's Daily Show, their takeaway from which is, "This fucking guy Trump!" And I mean, yeah, that fucking guy, but I'm painfully aware I'm talking to someone who could have blown either way with the wind but just happened to blow my way.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:51 AM on August 29, 2016 [23 favorites]

So what's the "truth" about the right that we're not hearing from the media? OR what's the "truth" about this election we're not hearing from the media? And how do we have access to that "truth"?
posted by Miko at 10:52 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The problem for Clinton team - after Democrats repeatedly pointed to Bannon personal past, going to be hard to argue Weiner is off limits

Or, it's a perfect point to highlight what women go through trying to manage a relationship with a toxic man, and note that sometimes it's women against men, and happens in same-sex relationships, too.

People should be supported when they leave physically and/or emotionally abusive partners. Bannon was one such partner, as was Weiner.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:53 AM on August 29, 2016 [39 favorites]

I'm happier to know how it works then to have it rest in the whitepapers of political consultants, sold to the public under a veil about "crime" or "broken families" or "welfare dependency."

I agree, but I don't think the best way to do that is to provide the so-called alt right with an unmoderated, uncritical mechanism for recruitment, which is what things like, say, comments sections for the media end up doing.
posted by maxsparber at 10:54 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Help me out here. Can anyone tell me what the PoT(T) is?

When I came up with that, I intended the Party of [Strom] Thurmond (and Trump). When Nixon et al. let Thurmond into the party, the GOP eventually went to PoT (as evidence by Racist Ronnie's Neshoba County Fair State's Rights address). When Donald Trump took over the party, I added his initial in parentheses to emphasize that he is a symptom of the Thurmondite faction in the Republican party; hence PoT(T).

I refuse to let the Republican party hear the end of Thurmond until they cop to the racism and hate they've been peddling for 50 years, and crucially do something constructive about it.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:54 AM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]

I'm painfully aware I'm talking to someone who could have blown either way with the wind

The flip side for me is tracking these threads in detail and then trying to bring them into conversation with folks like that, or even supporters of Trump: "Did you hear about #outrageousthingTrumpsaidyesterday?" And when their answer is "No," or "No but I don't care, still voting for him," then I realize how little this minutiae matters to the nation's imagination of the presidency, the candidates, the outcome. It's not a battle fought or won in minutiae, though in Trump's case, a lot of small things have started to add up to his abandonment by people for whom he went one bridge too far. But not, notably, by his base, who are saying clearly "there is no bridge too far, I'm onboard no matter what." And, similarly, there is no Clinton corruption issue I can imagine alienating me from her candidacy, simply because I'm an ideologue.
posted by Miko at 10:55 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

How much of the false equivalency we see in the media today was the direct result of Fox News and the threats that if other media outlets didn't play nice, conservatives would withhold access and go sulk in their own corner?

"No wonder Romney lost—that guy's 50 state strategy stalled out after only the first two."
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:21 PM on 8/29

Never has there been a joke so perfectly tailored to my sense of humor.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump's Effect On Down Ballot Candidates | Morning Joe | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:57 AM on August 29, 2016

Yeah, I'm just not sure that 1950s/60s-style "mainstream consensus truth/reality" is/was a better state of affairs than "false equivalency."
posted by Miko at 10:58 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can someone explain why this is happening, exactly? What happened to the press and the media's ability to act as a social antibody to unacceptable ideas?

I read a slew of articles about media coverage of this race on Friday, and deleted all the tabs in an attempt to steer myself back to sanity. Quickly Googling now, I cannot find the source to attribute this idea, but:

The media does not know how to handle an asymmetric contest.

The "fair and balanced" approach, the coverage of the horse-race, the false equivalence is all they know; it is their entire toolbox. They literally no longer know how to write about the asymmetric difference between the Clinton Foundation and Trump's bankrupt approach to business. They do not know to note, how to name, how to write that one is not the mirror image of the other. That Trump is orders-of-magnitude different from Clinton.

It's been a long time since we had such a truly asymmetric race, two asymmetric candidates. Truly, the conversation should be about the fact that Trump hasn't passed the prerequisites to be enrolled in the same course as Clinton. That Trump's rap sheet is 5 pages, compared to a single speeding ticket on Clinton's. But most media people can't even think of how to shed sunlight on those differences.
posted by Dashy at 11:01 AM on August 29, 2016 [45 favorites]

GhostintheMachine: "@maggieNYT: The problem for Clinton team - after Democrats repeatedly pointed to Bannon personal past, going to be hard to argue Weiner is off limits"

What? What role does Weiner play in the election?
posted by boo_radley at 11:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [29 favorites]

Mr Trump has at least 3 names according to what we read. Why not?
Isis, Islamic State, Isil, or Daesh?
posted by Postroad at 11:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The problem with the "fair and balanced" approach is that if the sun is directly overhead and one person says it's noon and a second person swears it's midnight, saying that maybe it's six o'clock doesn't make you wise and evenhanded, it just makes you another person who doesn't know what time it is.

It's not a system that is built to deal with total disregard for facts.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:05 AM on August 29, 2016 [101 favorites]

Metafilter definitely obsesses more over ALL THE ELECTION THINGS!!! than the wider public. I have a number of politically active friends who think the campaign should be ignored as so much theatre.
posted by bardophile at 11:05 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think we can look to the collapse of the Tea Party as a sign that giving people a public space to air their terrible opinions does not mean those ideas are going to take over the country.

America has done a pretty great job of defining racism as un-American over the last 50 years. Far right loonies aren't going to upend that overnight, and certainly not when faced with a strong headwind. Granted, as with the Tea Party, we might be stuck with them for the next decade, and they may do some ugly damage, but then again, the Tea Party was itself unusually successful, so these folks might get pushed back in the corners by January. I don't know if any national politician has yet claimed to embrace the alt-right, but if that doesn't happen, I don't expect them to get invited on many chat shows after the election.

Honestly, one of the great things about the label "alt-right" is that any vile kook with a cause can claim to be a part of it, and tar the rest by association. Racists, men's rights activists, gamergaters, Dominionists, sovereign citizens, chem-trailers, flat-Earthers, the more minimized they have been, the more they see "the rise of the alt-right" as their ticket to respectability, and the greater the millstone they hang around the necks of the larger, more organized bands of hate-fueled yahoos.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 11:07 AM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

The naming of Trumps is a difficult matter
It isn't just one of your election year games
You may think I'm as mad as a hatter
When I tell you D. Trump must have three different names.

posted by Death and Gravity at 11:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

What? What role does Weiner play in the election?

Exactly my thoughts. If Bannon's ex wife had been CEO of Trump's campaign, there would have been an equivalence. Bannon's character failings are relevant, as would Abedin's be.
posted by bardophile at 11:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

Trump has no problem weighing in on the Abedin/Weiner scandal.

"I only worry for the country in that Hillary Clinton was careless and negligent in allowing Weiner to have such close proximity to highly classified information," Trump said in a statement. "Who knows what he learned and who he told? It's just another example of Hillary Clinton's bad judgment."

posted by xyzzy at 11:10 AM on August 29, 2016

I do not believe in the marketplace of ideas. I don't think there is any real evidence that good ideas beat bad idea, that more and better speech beats bad speech, that sunlight is the best disinfectant. I think the media's job is to act in service of truth, not some imagined idea of "balance," and until they do that, all they are doing is propping up a narrative, and acting as a mouthpiece, for people who are genuinely, actively trying to build a racist right wing.

I have a slightly different take, which is that the "marketplace of ideas" approach has real benefits... and also has limits. It's been showing those limits for a while, but it's something a lot of media outlets have stuck to out of belief in the approach, out of habit, out of various incentives. This election cycle we're not just approaching the limits, we've blown past them. Habits and incentives are still in place, but belief in a lot of things has certainly been shaken, and so at least some voices (probably a plurality) are saying "Yeah, Trump is different. This is a new level of BS."

"Service of truth" is a hard standard because truth isn't always apparent and is often socially constructed. That's one of the reason why the marketplace of ideas is a good place to start. But it can't just be a mechanically applied format, there has to be a limit where outlets can also assume the authority to comment to call out mistakes, challenge fabrication, and make some judgment on relative strength/weakness of competing cases.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:10 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

So what's the "truth" about the right that we're not hearing from the media? OR what's the "truth" about this election we're not hearing from the media? And how do we have access to that "truth"?

Perhaps the "truth" is the emotional gap between what we feel about the right and what the media reports. And perhaps it is an emotional hunger that is harder to sate, lately, because the right keep stooping lower and uglier. As a result, the act of putting a white supremacist on NPR (for example) is reduced to being just another bite-sized outrage and not the centerpiece on an incomprehensible smorgasbord of irresponsibility.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:11 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

I've been taking a break from these threads since I already have a stress/anxiety diagnosis. And I keep away from Facebook for the same reason. But today I looked briefly at Facebook for a message I was expecting, and right at the top, there was a post from a Berner about Assange "killing" Hillary with some scandal. The post in itself was disgusting, but the comments below were terrifying. The language alone was really harsh. But what I don't get is why some far-left people prefer Trump?!?? It is absurd.
posted by mumimor at 11:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think we can look to the collapse of the Tea Party as a sign that giving people a public space to air their terrible opinions does not mean those ideas are going to take over the country.

The Tea Party collapsed? It seems to me that they got themselves a candidate for president. Sure, the fiscal-austerity die-hards might give Trump a little side-eye, but really the Tea Party was a white anxiety movement from the start.
posted by dis_integration at 11:13 AM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

I think we can look to the collapse of the Tea Party as a sign that giving people a public space to air their terrible opinions does not mean those ideas are going to take over the country.

Well, firstly, I am not convinced there actually has been a collapse. Tea Partiers have done shockingly well in local elections, and have gotten quite a few candidates into the House of Representatives.

But, secondly, American racism has a specific history, and I am one who firmly believes you can predict the future by looking at the past unless heroic efforts are made not to repeat the past. And that history is that defeated racists do not go home in a glum funk, but instead engage in extrajudicial acts of terrorism to promote their agenda.
posted by maxsparber at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2016 [44 favorites]

I think we can look to the collapse of the Tea Party as a sign that giving people a public space to air their terrible opinions does not mean those ideas are going to take over the country.

Actually, hear me out: I know this may sound crazy, but I'm not sure the Tea Party actually collapsed. I think it just decentralized and stopped holding Big! Rallies! - from what I have seen of the primary process, the beliefs behind the Tea Party are very much a part of discourse, and politicians have to account for and answer to them.

In similar vein, I think that the recent loud public space of Trumpists to air their opinions may "collapse" - as in, you're not going to see huge rallies for Trump forever - but pockets of those opinions may lie under the surface again - bigger and more coordinated than they ever were before, because now they know their neighbors agree with them.
posted by corb at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

I'm so tired of FB posts telling me that someone's statements will annihilate, destroy, murder, obliterate, kill, wipe out, or blow away someone else. Apparently, the way of people who get their news from FB is to assume that public figures spend 70% of their time dropping the mic.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]

Technical question y'all-

Is the election result decided by whoever gets to 270 electoral votes first OR is it necessary for the losing party to concede? Does a concession speech matter at all technically or it just an indication that the loser will not be challenging the vote at all?

There's a batch of cookies that depends on the answer!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:16 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

A Weiner is going to be an important part of this news cycle and not in a way I expected, that's for sure.

Ridiculous and not in a way we expekted.
posted by y2karl at 11:16 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Apparently, the way of people who get their news from FB is to assume that public figures spend 70% of their time dropping the mic.

Which may explain why people love Hamilton.

(I love it too.)
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

America has done a pretty great job of defining racism as un-American over the last 50 years.
I think this is true; most Americans do think racism is bad.
It's also true that most white Americans don't think they are racist at all.
posted by librosegretti at 11:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [36 favorites]

the marketplace of ideas

The problem with the marketplace of ideas is not that good ideas compete against bad ideas--it's that it is LITERALLY a marketplace. Horse races, conflict, and salacious scandal sell diapers, milk, and Viagra single-packs. I remain convinced that Edward R. Murrow was from the future.

Does a concession speech matter at all technically

No. It's a courtesy. As such, it is unlikely that Trump will give one.
posted by xyzzy at 11:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

New polls out from Emerson, Monmouth, and the LA Times.

Emerson:

Ohio: Clinton 43, Trump 43, Johnson 10, Stein 2
Ohio Senate: Portman 40, Strickland 25
Pennsylvania: Clinton 46, Trump 43, Johnson 7, Stein 2
Pennslyvania Senate: McGinty 39, Toomey 46
Michigan: Clinton 45, Trump 40, Johnson 7, Stein 3

Monmouth:

General Election: Clinton 49, Trump 42
General Election: Clinton 46, Trump 39, Johnson 7, Stein 2

LA Times/USC:
General Election: Clinton 44, Trump 44
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2016

Is the election result decided by whoever gets to 270 electoral votes first OR is it necessary for the losing party to concede? Does a concession speech matter at all technically or it just an indication that the loser will not be challenging the vote at all?

There's no concession clause in the constitution. It matters however that we have political institutions that seem legitimate in the eyes of the public. A refusal to concede and admit the legitimacy of the electoral process starts to move us closer to the kinds of conditions that cause crises of Presidential democracies and civil wars.
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on August 29, 2016 [29 favorites]

Is the election result decided by whoever gets to 270 electoral votes first OR is it necessary for the losing party to concede? Does a concession speech matter at all technically or it just an indication that the loser will not be challenging the vote at all?

Electoral College

The Twelfth Amendment mandates that the Congress assemble in joint session to count the electoral votes and declare the winners of the election.[43] The session is ordinarily required to take place on January 6 in the calendar year immediately following the meetings of the presidential electors.[44] Since the Twentieth Amendment, the newly elected House declares the winner of the election; all elections before 1936 were determined by the outgoing House instead.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:22 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Tea Partiers have done shockingly well in local elections, and have gotten quite a few candidates into the House of Representatives.

The Senate too. It was nauseating to see Rubio run as a "moderate Republican" when he explicitly ran for Senate in 2010 on a Tea Party platform. Ted Cruz, Jodi Ernst and Tom Cotton all embody the TP ethos as well.
posted by donatella at 11:22 AM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

Ok let's talk about the past and do a quick comparison. Huma is a good person married to an asshole who she is going to divorce. Bannon is an asshole who beat up and divorced a good person. Consider the kind of character that Trump chooses to hang out with vs. Hillary's choice.
posted by humanfont at 11:23 AM on August 29, 2016 [52 favorites]

How is he gaining in the polls? How is he POSSIBLY gaining in the polls? *explodes in a hail of fire*
posted by corb at 11:24 AM on August 29, 2016 [40 favorites]

Does a concession speech matter at all technically or it just an indication that the loser will not be challenging the vote at all?

Al Gore famously retracted his concession in 2000. It doesn't matter at all technically, or in any other way. As some have said, it legitimizes the process and the winner to a certain degree, but given how much birtherism has taken root, I'd say that it doesn't do that much.
posted by Etrigan at 11:25 AM on August 29, 2016

It matters however that we have political institutions that seem legitimate in the eyes of the public. A refusal to concede and admit the legitimacy of the electoral process starts to move us closer to the kinds of conditions that cause crises of Presidential democracies and civil wars.

Good point.

FINE, cashman you won, since Romney conceded around 1am, even though Obama reach 270 around 10ish in 2012.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

How is he gaining in the polls? How is he POSSIBLY gaining in the polls?

asinine false-equivalency we-report-you-decide complete and total horseshit about the Clinton Foundation being some kind of scandal or evidence of corruption and criminality
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

raysmj: I say we just stop talking about details of the election, except on comedy shows, and otherwise discuss character motivations and minutia about or involving "Mr. Robot" for the next couple of months.

Join us, jooooiiiin uuuusss ... because I'm thinking of joining Reddit just so I can geek out more on this show.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled program.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Never mind, Al Gore took his concession back, so I wish too!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:27 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

[ctrl-F "Biden"] no results, hope I'm not double-linking

I quite appreciated The Atlantic's piece on Biden (and also Hillary).

Clemons: It’s occurred to me that virtually no one can talk to the average man in America as well as you can, and then all of a sudden Donald Trump is doing it. He is communicating a message that A) you citizens have gone off to fight these battles around the world but you’re getting screwed in these relationships, other nations aren’t paying enough, and we’re not getting a good deal. When I talk to my relatives in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas, they’re hearing that. I’m just interested in what you think Americans need to hear that they’re not hearing about internationalism, international engagement, why it pays off for them in ways they are not sensing and feeling?

Biden: I absolutely think it is the key issue. It’s not only foreign, but it’s domestic. I was doing the interview on Morning Joe, and they asked the same question. And I said, “Look, the truth is we just haven’t paid enough attention to these people. We haven’t spoken to them.” And everybody went nuts going, “Aw Jesus! Hillary is going to think that’s an attack.” But I asked my team what did Hillary just say in her speech? She said we’re not paying enough attention—and the phrase I used that really upset them—I said, “We’re not showing them enough respect.” And she also said we’re not showing enough respect.

The truth is we are not showing enough respect. There is a new breed of Democrat that is represented by our administration, in my view, and the smart guys, the guys and gals who are Harvard, Yale, Penn graduates; the very, very well-informed, well-educated, elites of the party. They are the new version, if they don’t watch it, of the limousine liberals when I was coming up in the 60s. Because at its core there’s a disconnect with some really, really, really smart, good, decent people who are with us and part of the larger Democratic younger elite, the millennial elite who don’t understand the middle class anymore.

You may remember when I came in, [Biden’s then-Chief of Staff] Ron Klain said, “Look, ask to be able to do a middle class [task] force,” to focus on how can we administratively, by executive order, ease the pain of the middle class, which got clobbered, the bottom fell out with the Great Recession.

It has some great anecdotes and insight.
posted by fraula at 11:28 AM on August 29, 2016 [27 favorites]

> But if you cast the right wing as now really racist, I am not convinced you drive people away from the right. I am worried you let them know that racism is just something they are going to have to be okay with. And there are plenty of right wingers just champing at the bit to tell them why racism is okay.

Some thoughts on naming and visibility:

Yes, naming white supremacists as white supremacists in public speeches makes white supremacy more visible. And one of the worst things that Donald Trump has done in his miserable life is help signal-boost white supremacy, so that the white supremacists all know that they've got lots of compatriots out there.
BUT: they already knew that. There already existed a ton of ways for them to show each other that there exist a relatively large number of white supremacists. Even before Trump, and even before digital forums like /pol/ and stormfront, and, hell, even before the Internet, they knew that they had a lot of fellow-travelers out there. They have a flag, for chrissake. They put this flag on their cars. All they have to do is look around for the flag of the Confederacy. The more Confederate flags they see wherever they are, the more they know that their views are mainstream.
As such I'm not particularly worried about it being a bad move for Hillary Clinton to call out Trump's connections to white supremacists. If they didn't already know their own strength, it'd be a bad move. But they do know their own strength. They've known it for a while.
Best practice for referring to the Democratic Party candidate for President is referring to her as "Clinton," "Hillary Clinton," or "Secretary Clinton." Best practice for referring to the Republican nominee for President is referring to him as "Trump," "Donald Trump," or "Mr. Trump." Other names for either candidate are best avoided. Although, like everyone else, I really like the elaborate and surreal epithets that Jezebel and other former-Gawker-empire sites use when referring to Trump, it's best to leave the epithet-crafting to the professionals.
Best practice for referring to the white supremacist alt-right is to refer to them as the white supremacist alt-right. It's immature not to use the name that they've devised for themselves, but irresponsible not to explain what that name means when you use it.

posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:29 AM on August 29, 2016 [43 favorites]

corb: How is he gaining in the polls? How is he POSSIBLY gaining in the polls? *explodes in a hail of fire*

prize bull octorok: asinine false-equivalency we-report-you-decide complete and total horseshit about the Clinton Foundation being some kind of scandal or evidence of corruption and criminality

Exactly. Donny's coverage is softening as he "blurs*" on immigration, and Hillary hasn't done much of note [from what I've heard/ seen in the news].

* That was word used today on NPR, and I imagined that Donnie is flip-flopping so fast he's a blur on this particular topic.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Tea Party collapsed?

To my understanding, the Tea Party was two things: first, ultra-conservative policy positions (including the Grover pledges), but second and more importantly, Shut It All Down. Their main tactic was disruption, taking all their toys and going home, governing by government shutdown.

The former will always exist in some form, and it is the base of the current alt-right.

The latter ... didn't work out so well. You can point to some victories, and they certainly did some damage as well, but I actually think that some of the resurgence of progressive/Democratic causes and successes these days is due to the basic recognition that you can't just shut it all down, even when you're not getting your way. Roads have to be built. Schools have to be funded. Compromises must happen, and we can't elect people whose goal it is to read nursery rhymes or have a temper tantrum on C-SPAN.
posted by Dashy at 11:30 AM on August 29, 2016

Trump isn't going to give a concession speech and his hordes don't want him to, either. Remember when John McCain gave that very classy, hopeful concession speech emphasizing the legitimacy of the democratic process and the important of respect for the office of the presidency? And they booed and jeered at him for it?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:30 AM on August 29, 2016 [27 favorites]

But what I don't get is why some far-left people prefer Trump?!??

I talked to some Trump supporters recently (who were by all standards very intelligent people). They acknowledged that he didn't posses good judgement, that he didn't have the temperament for presidency, and that he didn't have any grasp of any policies at all. I don't think they were 'far-left' people, but I think their reasons for supporting Trump may be similar to far-left folks that support Trump...

1. A deep-seated hatred for Hillary (which may come for a variety of reasons, some somewhat rational, others deeply irrational).
2. Essentially a kind of political nihilism... The 'burn it all down' mindset... That Trump will essentially bring such chaos and discord that there will have to be a radical restructuring (revolution? who the fuck knows).

I was eager to discuss the matter because it was my first interaction with actual Trump supporters, but after about 10 minutes of discussion I had to leave the room.
posted by el io at 11:31 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Emerson poll is landline-only. Skews older.
posted by waitingtoderail at 11:31 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

How is he gaining in the polls? How is he POSSIBLY gaining in the polls? *explodes in a hail of fire

Relax. That LA Times poll is one that 538 has spoken about in specific last time it turned up. "This has been a fairly consistent difference between this poll and most others. Take the LA Times poll, add 6 points to Clinton, and you usually wind up with something close to the FiveThirtyEight or RealClearPolitics national polling average." That LA Times poll produced the same result last time.

And the Emerson poll? It's their first since the primary. It's worrying but not to panic about.
posted by Francis at 11:32 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Technical question y'all-

Is the election result decided by whoever gets to 270 electoral votes first OR is it necessary for the losing party to concede? Does a concession speech matter at all technically or it just an indication that the loser will not be challenging the vote at all?

What is your definition of "election result decided"?

The president and vice-president are not elected until the on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December, when the Electors cast their votes for president and vice-president.

While faithless electors have been a thing, it's unlikely, and since 270 is a true majority of (50% +1) of 538, once enough states have designated sufficient Electors for Party A to have at least 270, it can be assumed that Party A's candidates will be elected POTUS and VPOTUS.

States designate electors in a bunch of different processes, but generally speaking, once there is a certification of the popular vote, it can be assumed that the Electors for the party with the most votes will be designated as the Electors for the winner-take-all states (mutatis mutandis for proportional states)

Certifying the popular vote takes a state-dependent amount of time, but Math People can usually help the news media make a "call" of the winners in most states after some portion of votes has been reported.

tl;dr: conscession speech doesn't matter, "election result" in the constitutional sense of the world not decided until December.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:33 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

fraula, thanks for linking to that Atlantic piece. Fascinating and very informative.
posted by zarq at 11:34 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Romney conceded around 1am, even though Obama reach 270 around 10ish in 2012.

He had to write the concession speech (he was sure he wouldn't need one), so that's at least part of the delay there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Actually, another technical nightmare question: what if enough electors are knocked out that it's possible faithless electors could take the top polling candidate below 270? I know it gets kicked to the House, but what's the actual timeline for that? Could we be without a president? Would Obama just stay on until it was decided?
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

To my understanding, the Tea Party was two things: first, ultra-conservative policy positions (including the Grover pledges), but second and more importantly, Shut It All Down. Their main tactic was disruption, taking all their toys and going home, governing by government shutdown.

The Tea Party was always conservative Republicans, and it was never grassroots. It wasn't even really a separate demographic within the GOP. A bunch of former politicians and consultants from what is now referred to as "the establishment" got together and formed a network of organizations, funded them (with help from outside groups like the Kochs) based on set of issues like Obamacare and immigration, and voila, branding! In essence, they're pretty much the loudest bigots of the GOP with corporate sponsorship. And no, they haven't really gone away. In a lot of ways they created the environment that gave us Trump, although I doubt many of them expected or even wanted this outcome.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

How is he gaining in the polls? How is he POSSIBLY gaining in the polls?

He was always going to gain in the polls just because Clinton's convention bounce was going to wear off. This is a boring normal thing that happens mostly just because most Americans don't think very much, very hard, or very often about politics.

We should just be glad that, ojala, her bounce seems to have only been a point or so.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

>> But what I don't get is why some far-left people prefer Trump?!??
> […] Essentially a kind of political nihilism... The 'burn it all down' mindset... That Trump will essentially bring such chaos and discord that there will have to be a radical restructuring (revolution? who the fuck knows).

Probably this, I once saw a documentary on how in a similar situation someone in a Guy Fawkes mask saved civilization.
posted by farlukar at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Mind you, Hillary's chances of to win, as charted by 538, peaked at a high of 96 percent in the now-cast down to 74% in the polls-plus forecast, which shows less hyperbole than their now-cast. And PEC's history of meta-analysis makes everything loop pretty darned good for Hillary. As a bonus, there's a list of Notable dates in 2016:
July 18-21 – Republican National Convention, Cleveland, Ohio.
July 25-28 – Democratic National Convention, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (The beginning of Hillary's climb up, which has plateaued a bit, with a sizable lead of Donnie)
September 26 – First Presidential debate – Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY.
October 4 – Vice-Presidential debate – Longwood University, Farmville, VA.
October 9 – Second Presidential debate – Washington University, St. Louis, MO.
October 19 – Third Presidential debate – University of Nevada, Las Vegas
posted by filthy light thief at 11:41 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Remember when John McCain gave that very classy, hopeful concession speech emphasizing the legitimacy of the democratic process and the important of respect for the office of the presidency? And they booed and jeered at him for it?

The movie Game Change does not attempt to hide its bias against Sarah Palin, so I take most of the portrayals of any particular events with a grain of salt, but I appreciated what they showed of how things kinda-sorta-work in the losing party's campaign "headquarters" once it's clear that losing party is gonna lose.

Romney conceded around 1am, even though Obama reach 270 around 10ish in 2012.

Here's Romney working on his concession speech in MITT. I haven't seen the documentary, but it is my understanding that Romney didn't start writing the speech until the results were clear.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:42 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

peaked at a high of 96 percent in the now-cast down to 74% in the polls-plus forecast

Comparing these things makes baby Jesus cry!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:44 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

Comparing these things makes baby Jesus cry!

I did that only to highlight the fact that Hillary has had a significant lead for a while. Sorry baby Jesus!

He was always going to gain in the polls just because Clinton's convention bounce was going to wear off. This is a boring normal thing that happens mostly just because most Americans don't think very much, very hard, or very often about politics.

But he didn't. Really, Donny has kept flubbing and floundering. Check the 538 charts again. Depending on which you pick, Hillary has been maintaining more than 70% and Donny has been stuck in the 20% range
posted by filthy light thief at 11:45 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Comparing these things makes baby Jesus cry!

Really, so does paying any attention at all to the now-cast.
posted by dersins at 11:45 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

As long as Hillary Clinton is referred to as Hillary, I'll refer to her complete jerkhole of an opponent as Donald. Here in MefiLand, I may digress and call him Tiny Hands Donald, or just That Jerkhole, as I'm confident you all know who I mean

I live in Maine, where we have a complete jerkhole, as in racist gasbag, of a governor, so when I post to facebook or elsewhere, I have to specify which racist, vile, crude, nasty jerkhole I mean. It gets complicated, but I persevere.
posted by theora55 at 11:48 AM on August 29, 2016 [33 favorites]

I know it gets kicked to the House, but what's the actual timeline for that? Could we be without a president? Would Obama just stay on until it was decided?

The 12th amendment puts a deadline of March 4th following the election, but the 20th amendment states that January 20th is the last day of the presidency and vice presidency. But, sec. 3 of the 20th states that if no president has been chosen by the last day of the current presidents term, the vice president becomes president until the choice is made. So Biden would be president until the house selects a new president, which I think they still have to do by March 4th?

It's not really clear how to interpret the Jan 20-March 4 gap, but that's how I'm reading it.
posted by dis_integration at 11:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sorry, vice president elect. So not sure how that would work out since we vote for president/vice-president as a combo now. It just says: Congress decides, really.
posted by dis_integration at 11:50 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I live in Maine, where we have a complete jerkhole, as in racist gasbag, of a governor

About that... "Dear America: Maine here. Please forgive us – we made a terrible mistake. We managed to elect and re-elect a governor who is unfit for high office."
posted by peeedro at 11:51 AM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

Giuliani Blasts Beyoncé’s VMA Performance: ‘I Saved More Black Lives’ Than She Has
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

But I tell you, a Trump needs a name that's particular,
A name that's peculiar, and more full of gloss,
Else how can he keep up his wig perpendicular,
Or spread out his hatred, or light up his cross?
Of names of this kind, I can give you a line,
Such as Carrot Juice, Traffic Cone, or Melted Push-Pop,
Such as Squashed Jack-o-lantern, or Bad Clementine-
Names that never belong to more than one Trump.

posted by leotrotsky at 11:53 AM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

First off, the TV show Veep is wrong.

From the 12th Amendment, If nobody gets a majority, the House votes by state from the top 3, and keeps going until someone wins 26 states. Also, the Senate picks the VP (however they want).

Per the 20th, if there's no President by January 20, the newly-elected VP acts as President until the House picks a President.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:55 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Rudy, I wish she'd performed Freedom too, but there's no reason to make such a huge deal out of it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

(Under the old system, of course, the House would do a song and dance number until Hamilton decided who to support.)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

To my understanding, the Tea Party was two things: first, ultra-conservative policy positions (including the Grover pledges), but second and more importantly, Shut It All Down. Their main tactic was disruption, taking all their toys and going home, governing by government shutdown.

Uhh, that's the entire strategy of the Republican Party as a whole, and has been for 8 years at the minimum, and more like since 1992 with a 8 year interlude of preemptive wars and torture. Mitch McConnell has already promised absolutely nothing will change under Hilary if he still controls the Senate. They fundamentally do not acknowledge the legitimacy of democratic outcomes except to the extent Republicans win. they will not allow President Hilary to seat a SCOTUS judge, ever. And they'll continue to threaten to destroy the federal budget and/or world economy unless taxes for billionaires are eliminated entirely, and every woman is required to report her monthly cycle to the local pastor and police chief.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:57 AM on August 29, 2016 [35 favorites]

Per the 20th, if there's no President by January 20, the newly-elected VP acts as President until the House picks a President.

Right but in the modern era if there's no President, there's also no Vice-President, right? Nobody is voting for Kaine or Pence apart from Clinton and Trump. So if there's an electoral college tie and the house drags its feet till after Jan 20 then who is President?
posted by dis_integration at 11:58 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Apparently, the way of people who get their news from FB is to assume that public figures spend 70% of their time dropping the mic.

I honestly think there's a large percentage of Americans who are about to be shocked that sick burns and dank memes don't determine elections.
posted by bongo_x at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]

No. If there's no majority, the offices split: the new House picks the President (by state, from the top 3) and the new Senate picks the VP. So somebody will win.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2016

I believe that Article 29, Section 14, paragraph 11, Part 3 states that if there is no majority, the presidency will be decided by bofa.
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:04 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Mike Pence is Steve Carell's best character yet.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:06 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

Bofa who?
posted by pxe2000 at 12:06 PM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

They fundamentally do not acknowledge the legitimacy of democratic outcomes except to the extent Republicans win. they will not allow President Hilary to seat a SCOTUS judge, ever.

Which is why we'll immediately go nuclear on the filibuster for SCOTUS nominations.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:07 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

I believe that Article 29, Section 14, paragraph 11, Part 3 states that if there is no majority, the presidency will be decided by bofa.

It's not Facebook likes?
posted by bongo_x at 12:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

> So if there's an electoral college tie and the house drags its feet till after Jan 20 then who is President?

There won't be an electoral college tie. But if the government on the whole refuses to...government... there are no written rules to compel them. Moreover, there cannot possibly exist rules to compel them.

In reality (even if there were an electoral college tie, which there won't be), if the election goes to the house, the rules requiring that congressional members vote in state delegations rather than as individuals mean that in practice the Presidency will go to whoever the Republican Party wants. Presumably they'd give it to Paul Ryan, or someone equivalent to Paul Ryan.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:08 PM on August 29, 2016

Giuliani Blasts Beyoncé’s VMA Performance: ‘I Saved More Black Lives’ Than She Has

Jesus Christ, these people are vile.
posted by bibliowench at 12:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [37 favorites]

bofa DEEZ HOUSES OF CONGRESS OHHHHHHH SICK BURNNN
posted by infinitewindow at 12:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [49 favorites]

> No. If there's no majority, the offices split: the new House picks the President (by state, from the top 3).

Ohhh crap forgot about the "top three" part. This is top three among vote-getters in the Electoral College, right? So if there's a split, enough party loyalist (rather than Trump loyalist) electors in the Electoral College would faithlessly vote for the agreed-upon Paul Ryan equivalent to get him into third, and then the Republican Party would use their gerrymandered advantage in votes-by-state-delegation to select the Paul Ryan equivalent candidate.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

or someone equivalent to Paul Ryan.

that's an easy one, just take any random guy out of a gym who's doing curls in front of a mirror and staple a copy of The Fountainhead to his head
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [55 favorites]

Full text of the Constitution, with notes. Nobody is getting elected President unless they get enough electoral votes to finish in the top 3. If Henry Clay couldn't get elected in 1824/25, neither can Paul Ryan in 2017.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

How is he gaining in the polls? How is he POSSIBLY gaining in the polls?

just my two cents but i blame him supporters
posted by beerperson at 12:11 PM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

> that's an easy one, just take any random guy out of a gym who's doing curls in front of a mirror and staple a copy of The Fountainhead to his head.

This is both an accurate description of Paul Ryan and an accurate description of what San Francisco has become over the course of the 21st century.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [35 favorites]

In a split electoral college, as in the Olympics, the worst possible place to be is fourth.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:15 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bus to November: Bloomberg reporters Esmé E. Deprez and M. Scott Brauer traveled cross country from Philadelphia to Los Angeles this month, traversing over 3,041 miles through 11 states, in 15 buses driven by 17 drivers. They spent two weeks interviewing riders about the US Presidential candidates and upcoming election.
posted by zarq at 12:17 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

well that effectively steals the thunder from my Hot Air Balloon To November longread
posted by beerperson at 12:18 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

A few comments deleted. ennui.bz, just skip this thread, and in general stop it with the perpetual you-guys-are-all-dupes schtick about everything.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:24 PM on August 29, 2016 [40 favorites]

Only ten weeks left of this insufferable bullshit.

If only.

The day after the election is when the Republicans turn it up to eleven. For those of you who weren't around for the 90s, expect an endless series of congressional investigations, subpoenas, depositions, calls for independent prosecutors and frivolous lawsuits.

You really need to brace yourself for this now. It will be relentless, unending, exhausting attacks intended to wear you out until once again everyone is calling for her exit due to "Clinton fatigue." Buck up. There is no time to go wobbly. Don't let the bastards wear you down.
posted by JackFlash at 12:26 PM on August 29, 2016 [74 favorites]

Which is why we'll immediately go nuclear on the filibuster for SCOTUS nominations.

That presumes that the Democrats retake the Senate, only the majority can excercise the nuclear option. If the Republicans maintain control, they can block appointments for 4 years and there's nothing to stop them other than "norms". And we've seen how that has worked.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

A few comments were deleted, please reload before replying.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

For your daily schadenfreude needs, Politico has the story of how a self-described "registered genius, board certified hacker, and grape soda connoisseur" took advantage of both PAC fundraising loopholes and the Trump campaign's slowness to solicit money via email and advertise on Facebook:

Meet the man siphoning money from Donald Trump: A 25-year-old with no Trump ties raises $1 million by dangling 'dinner' with the GOP nominee

The best part is that the site, dinnerwithtrump.org, is still up, with only slight design changes since the story broke. It continues to invite ~~suckers~~ Trump supporters to "Enter for a chance for you and a guest to have dinner with Donald Trump." The dinner is defined, in the fine print, as "a Sponsor-selected fundraising evening event held with Donald Trump and other attendees", i.e. a rubber-chicken entree at whatever Trump rally the scam artist chooses.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:33 PM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

> Yeah, I'm just not sure that 1950s/60s-style "mainstream consensus truth/reality" is/was a better state of affairs than "false equivalency."

fwiw, re: media coverage and the alt-right...
OTM: Define "Normal" - "I'm pretty exited these days. What I've seen in many, many places the capacity to build things from the bottom up, to create your own network. Journalism is a shrinking wedge of this explosively growing pie of ways to share ideas and knowledge and be responsive, and that's where there's a lot of opportunity. And the media that persists will recognize that and facilitate it and draw on it as much as they will create it themselves." (28m)

Romney strategist on the "alt-right": "It's just rebranded racism. It's like calling slaves 'agrarian interns.'"
I disagree with this. Racism is much bigger and more varied; the alt-right is a specific, virulent manifestation.
They are trying to adopt a policy that disregards ideologically purity, to bring in more converts.
“The KKK had a very anti-Catholic element. It had a violent streak about it that no one on the alt-right has anything to do with,” says Mr Taylor [a leading member of the alt-right]
Jamelle Bouie is right: This is why I take the "alt-right" seriously. They are the vanguard for political conservatism and may well shape the GOP for a generation.
This is why I'm worried. Dems can't keep this up forever. And the next GOP prez will probably be alt-right.
“The GOP will remain in control in most states.”
The key point is that conservative elites recommended for the rubes a news diet they were unwilling to follow themselves... When conservative elites recommended a news diet they did not rely on themselves, that is when they lost touch with what they had done.

Michael Munger on Slavery and Racism: "We are going to take a look at a paper that you coauthored with Jeffrey Grynaviski that is forthcoming in the journal Social Philosophy and Policy, [working paper version is here] and the paper is called “Reconstructing Racism: Transforming Racial Hierarchy from Necessary Evil into Positive Good.” And we are going to use slavery as our jumping off point, but I’m sure we’ll get into general issues of ideology and norms. And of course emergent order... We’re trying to understand in this conversation, and you and your coauthor in the paper are trying to understand how a certain set of views came to be believed. Which is a form of an ideology — in this case, racism."
posted by kliuless at 12:34 PM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

I wonder how much of the polling is just Republicaks drifting back to him. Sure the "pivot" was a bust and he's still racist as hell, but they can live with that, and eat was actually driving them away was the infighting with other republicans, which he's somehow put a lid in.
posted by Artw at 12:36 PM on August 29, 2016

@AP_Headlines
Trump Touts Consistent Record of Wearing Pants to Calm Swing Voters

[fake] This Twitter account just keeps on giving.
posted by Talez at 12:37 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Ann Coulter Defends Donald Trump’s Consistency | Andrea Mitchell | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:38 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Thanks for that bus article. Yet again I find myself wondering why supporters of the wall truly think that it will have much of a long term effect on heroin trafficking into the US. A huge proportion of heroin entering the US currently comes in by sea and several tunnels and catapults have already been discovered and de-activated. Even if "the wall" is set up like the one that divided East and West Germany with guard towers every few meters, there's no chance that a border wall will stymie South American and Mexican drug lords for long. As a symbol it might have value, but that would be a pretty expensive symbol.

If the Republicans maintain control, they can block appointments for 4 years and there's nothing to stop them other than "norms".

There are some lawsuits floating around that attempt to force the Senate to hold SCOTUS confirmation hearings. The substance of most of these suits is a Constitutional argument that the President is obligated to nominate to fill vacancies and that the Senate is obligated to provide "advice and consent." The problem with such lawsuits is that courts generally require the litigant to show that they are being harmed by government action.
posted by xyzzy at 12:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ann Coulter Defends Donald Trump’s Consistency | Andrea Mitchell | MSNBC

"Trump has been pretty consistent from day one that we've always been at war with ~~Eurasia~~ Eastasia"
posted by Talez at 12:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

twitter.com/AP_Headlines
Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!

But this one does:
twitter.com/A_Headlines
They must have changed the name today since I found it at the first address this morning.
posted by soelo at 12:42 PM on August 29, 2016

The idea of Huma's freedom fills me with joy.
posted by angrycat at 12:43 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Democrats using the nuclear option?

belated: you know, since congress has the power to declare war and our country has an aging, but still terrifyingly viable nuclear capability, i really wish that we had chosen a different metaphor for ending the filibuster
posted by murphy slaw at 12:44 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yep, they updated it an hour ago.
posted by soelo at 12:45 PM on August 29, 2016

How the demise of her health-care plan led to the politician Clinton is today
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:48 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

My understanding was that the lack of a majority in the electoral college followed by a failure of the house to elect a President would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. The Supreme Court would have to rule on what happened next.

Theoretically they could decide to follow the line of succession where the Speaker of the House probably Ryan or Pelosi would be defacto President. It isn't clear if she would entitled to a full term or only be an interim President pending a decision by the House.

They might also decide that Biden is President on the basis of the fact that the President is sworn in before the VP and therefore Biden is still technically VP when the President's term end. Or if the house picked a VP but not a President; then Pence or Kaine could be President.

The Supreme Court could also decide to call a constitutional convention to consider the matter. Although this isn't outlined in the Consitition itself they could use their power to compel the appropriate public officials to do it.

The thing is that it is unprecedented and legal scholars with a partisan bent would claim that whatever they wanted was the true constitutional path.
posted by humanfont at 12:56 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

From The Guardian: Trump's slump in Nascar country deepens Republican fears of defeat

Election models put Hillary Clinton’s chances of victory in November’s presidential election at over 80% – in the words of the New York Times, her chance of losing is about the same as the probability that an NFL kicker makes a field goal from the 20-yard line. FiveThirtyEight statistician Nate Silver predicts a 28% chance of a landslide, in which she wins the popular vote by double digits.

Is it me, or did this paragraph flip things around? Isn't the probability of her losing the election the same as an NFL kicker missing a close field goal?
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:58 PM on August 29, 2016

@kept_simple, with a link to this article in Politico:

for the love of god don't start rethinking barry goldwater just because of donald trump

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:02 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

It seems to me that we've reached the point where no hard-right, racist, culture-warmongering Republican candidate will ever win the presidency again. That means that the only hope for the GOP to win the presidency is to nominate a moderate. But as we saw quite clearly, the Republican base is in no mood for compromise. That means that the Republican leadership needs to get their base in the mood for compromise, which means that somehow or other they have to assuage their base's feelings of dread, insecurity, and anger. Clearly, they can't pull that off through media messaging, so their only option is policy. But the only way that the GOP can produce any federal policy in pursuit of that goal is by... compromising with the Democrats, which is a one-way ticket to defeat in the primaries.

So, we have a Catch-22, and it's hard to see how it could end. Republican members of Congress seem content to collect their paychecks for playing at political theater in lieu of actual work, so they have no incentive to buck the gravy train. Perhaps the only way they'll approach the bargaining table is if the gravy train bucks them—if the Republican base becomes so unappeasable that they'll primary any incumbent, no matter what they do. But, then again, the mere fact of approaching that fanatical singularity would make the Republicans actually elected to Congress less willing or even able to make any compromise with the Democrats or do any legislating.

This is a lot of spitballing on my part, to be sure, and I'm no political scientist or historian, but it seems pretty consistent with what we've seen from the past few years. A few months ago I told some acquaintances, "Hillary's going to win in a landslide, but it is going to suck." I fear we're looking at the same story for the foreseeable future.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

I don't let myself read MeFi political threads until I've done some phone banking.

Also on my To Do list this week: donate to Senate candidates in swing states, with letters cc'd to the incumbent Republican Senators - and Mitch McConnell - explaining that my donation is entirely based on the Republicans' outright refusal to do their job and act on the Supreme Court nomination.
posted by kristi at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

Is it me, or did this paragraph flip things around? Isn't the probability of her losing the election the same as an NFL kicker missing a close field goal?

Yeah. It's a UK paper, so they might have misunderstood the metaphor.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2016

belated: you know, since congress has the power to declare war and our country has an aging, but still terrifyingly viable nuclear capability, i really wish that we had chosen a different metaphor for ending the filibuster

Yeah I hate this too. If anything the filibuster, whose essential purpose was always to ensure white supremacy (no, really), is the nuclear option that blows up our ability to govern. But in general martial metaphors seem dangerous when applied to democratic adjudication (or public speech for that matter, JON STEWART GOES NUCLEAR ON ... !!! )

I don't know, with Trump besieged in the battleground states, with moderate republicans under fire with their flanks exposed, and with Merrick Garland stranded in no-man's-land, the SCOTUS nominations are a powder keg and the new front lines. There's no chance of a ceasefire. We need to exploit their weak points, regardless of the firestorm it will cause. Triggering the nuclear option certainly wouldn't be the opening salvo in the ongoing attack on senate rules.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

I mean I think likely the Republicans will confirm Garland after Clinton wins, but I've underestimated the Republican Party's capacity for self-destructive idiocy before.

If there were any actual indication that the Republicans were to actually do this reasonable thing, what I'd like to see is Obama withdraw Garland's nomination so that the new incoming President could make her own nomination.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yeah. It's a UK paper, so they might have misunderstood the metaphor.

About the same odds as the Quarterback failing to ace the basket.
posted by bongo_x at 1:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

> About the same odds as the Quarterback failing to ace the basket.

Hotbox!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:11 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

If there were any actual indication that the Republicans were to actually do this reasonable thing, what I'd like to see is Obama withdraw Garland's nomination so that the new incoming President could make her own nomination.

He's too decent for that. Also, Garland isn't a bad choice for a justice, even if he's not a liberal as some of us would like.

That said, after we win the Senate, I've love to see Hillary nominate Goodwin Liu just to twist the knife.

Being an asshole needs to have consequences, or they'll never learn.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

It seems to me that we've reached the point where no hard-right, racist, culture-warmongering Republican candidate will ever win the presidency again.

Ha.
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

It seems to me that we've reached the point where no hard-right, racist, culture-warmongering Republican candidate will ever win the presidency again.

I am concerned about what happens when someone who has Trump's divisive beliefs but has a more media-friendly approach starts to gain momentum.
posted by pxe2000 at 1:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

You Can't Tip a Buick: I mean I think likely the Republicans will confirm Garland after Clinton wins, but I've underestimated the Republican Party's capacity for self-destructive idiocy before.

I've heard the idea kicked around that once Hillary is elected, she'll pull Garland and put someone in who is more liberal. Garland was the shoe-in moderate, and by blocking any frickin' discussion of his placement, Obama showed that the GOP isn't interested in being anything but obstructionists.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

This article has been linked multiple times in these threads already:

Mother Jones: I spent 5 years with some of Trump's biggest fans. Here's what they won't tell you.

If you haven't looked at it, I can reiterate that it's worth your time. Staggering stuff:

"Have you heard of the Illuminati? The New World Order?" Sharon asked so as to prepare me. "I'm tea party," Sharon said, "but I don't go along with a lot that my mom does." Whether they clung to such dark notions or laughed them off, tea party enthusiasts lived in a roaring rumor-sphere that offered answers to deep, abiding anxieties. Why did President Obama take off his wristwatch during Ramadan? Why did Walmart run out of ammunition on the third Tuesday in March? Did you know drones can detect how much money you have? Many described these as suspicions other people held. Many seemed to float in a zone of half-belief.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [17 favorites]

About the same odds as the Quarterback failing to ace the basket.

Or the silly mid on sweeping a sticky wicket.
posted by dersins at 1:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am concerned about what happens when someone who has Trump's divisive beliefs but has a more media-friendly approach starts to gain momentum.

Somebody with Trump's beliefs and a shred of discipline and the ability to appear superficially reasonable/civil is an incredibly dangerous person.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

that's an easy one, just take any random guy out of a gym who's doing curls in front of a mirror and staple a copy of The Fountainhead to his head.

Be realistic. The wikipedia summary of Fountainhead printed out is more likely to fit, be what they read, and be staple-able.
posted by srboisvert at 1:15 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yeah. It's a UK paper, so they might have misunderstood the metaphor.

About the same odds as the Quarterback failing to ace the basket.
posted by bongo_x at 4:09 PM on August 29 [1 favorite +] [!]

Ted Cruz, is that you?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2016

What is the Alt Right? A report by The Onion.
posted by rorgy at 1:18 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Can you imagine how depressing it must be to live in that alternate multiverse where Trump is leading?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:20 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Somebody with Trump's beliefs and a shred of discipline and the ability to appear superficially reasonable/civil is an incredibly dangerous person.

"Nixon with charisma? I COULD RULE THE UNIVERSE!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:21 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

The wikipedia summary of Fountainhead printed out is more likely to fit, be what they read, and be staple-able.

You know, I went through an anti-Establishment Objectivist Ayn Rand phase, too. When I was 13. Upon achieving adulthood I was able to recognize that I was an idiotic asshole. The reverence that Ryan and other politicians and business leaders have for Rand (or even SparkNotes Rand) would only be comprehensible to me if they were actually 13.
posted by xyzzy at 1:21 PM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

Somebody with Trump's beliefs and a shred of discipline and the ability to appear superficially reasonable/civil is an incredibly dangerous person.

rather than snark, I'll just say that I find the creation of hypothetical undefeatable candidates of doom to be sort of a perplexing exercise
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:29 PM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

rather than snark, I'll just say that I find the creation of hypothetical undefeatable candidates of doom to be sort of a perplexing exercise

yes, for good or for ill, so far all major party candidates have been human beings.

and how.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:33 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The majority of adults are stuck emotionally at the high school level.

I sometimes wonder what percentage of Very Serious types are just performing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:35 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

@onlxn TRUMP: "Hillary has no idea what happens in our inner cities. I have seen Robocop over 30 times! Perfect film. WHY did Obama allow remake?!" [fake]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:35 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

ZeusHumms, I read this line as placing the line of scrimmage on the kicker's team's own 20-yard line and asking him to kick what, 95 yards?, rather than placing the line of scrimmage on the other team's 20-yard line? The writer could possibly explained a little more clearly, or, as others here have said, mixed the sports example completely between sports.
posted by Silverstone at 1:37 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The majority of adults are stuck emotionally at the high school level.
posted by BentFranklin at 1:24 PM on August 29 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

Hush. We're supposed to tell them it gets better.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:38 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

document from her physician that outlined medical conditions including hyperactive thyroid

This quote from the journo is bugging me. Doesn't Hillary have hypothyroidism? That's an underperforming thyroid. But there are effective treatments for that.
posted by porpoise at 1:39 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure Trump's fundamental appeal to morons is really combinable with a more restrained approach, TBH.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yeah I think there's a statistical ceiling on the number of people willing and able to believe this much bullshit.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is why I'm worried. Dems can't keep this up forever. And the next GOP prez will probably be alt-right.

I'm going to disagree strongly here. Dems don't need to keep this up forever. They just need to keep it up longer than the GOP. And right now? Assume Clinton wins this one - and she gets her wish of making Texas competitive by bringing up Hispanic turnout (it doesn't matter if she wins or loses - just that she makes it competitive).

Throw a media-savvy version of Trump as the GOP candidate in 2020. They are still on an anti-immigrant platform. Texas demographics have shifted further against them and with the hispanic vote on its own now matching the white vote Texas lines up in the D column. This makes things very hard for the Republican who already has an uphill struggle to take on a sitting president.

And by 2024 they really really need to not be running on an anti-immigrant platform unless they want to lose Texas and Georgia as well as California and New York.

The next GOP President is IMO going to be a moderate Latino from what is going to be the Republican equivalent of the DLC.
posted by Francis at 1:44 PM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

the unhinged ranting of a violent narcissist, but y'know, nicer
posted by Existential Dread at 1:44 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Somebody with Trump's beliefs and a shred of discipline and the ability to appear superficially reasonable/civil is an incredibly dangerous person.

Fortunately the Republican Party primary electorate has decided that when faced with the choice between an undisciplined lunatic with reprehensible beliefs (Trump) and a disciplined lunatic with reprehensible beliefs (Cruz), they'd prefer the undisciplined lunatic.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:46 PM on August 29, 2016 [41 favorites]

ZeusHumms, I read this line as placing the line of scrimmage on the kicker's team's own 20-yard line and asking him to kick what, 95 yards?, rather than placing the line of scrimmage on the other team's 20-yard line?

That would be Jill Stein's chances.
posted by dfan at 1:50 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

I sometimes wonder what percentage of Very Serious types are just performing.

All of them.
posted by notsnot at 1:50 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Fortunately the Republican Party primary electorate has decided that when faced with the choice between an undisciplined lunatic with reprehensible beliefs (Trump) and a disciplined lunatic with reprehensible beliefs (Cruz), they'd prefer the undisciplined lunatic.

Well, as reprehensible as I find Trump, there is something about Cruz's neutral expression that would make me want to punch him, even if I knew nothing at all about his beliefs.
posted by Mooski at 1:50 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

That would be Jill Stein's chances.

Stein's not even in the stadium. She's back in Lexington at a meeting of the recycling committee.
posted by dersins at 1:51 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

The next GOP President is IMO going to be a moderate Latino from what is going to be the Republican equivalent of the DLC.

There are no moderate Latino GOP members. There's only a dozen GOP hispanics in Congress (I'm sorry but Bill Flores sure as hell ain't hispanic) and apart from Rubio and Cruz, who among them could really contest a GOP presidential nomination? Devin Nunes is just as batshit insane and sure as hell won't be a senator or governor of CA anytime soon.
posted by Talez at 1:54 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The next GOP President is IMO going to be a moderate Latino from what is going to be the Republican equivalent of the DLC.

See: Brian Sandoval.
posted by stolyarova at 1:55 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

More info, fwiw:

In June 2015, Sandoval signed several bills designed to overhaul Nevada's education system. The reforms substantially increased funding for public schools and grants, and created incentives to recruit more teachers and promote professional training. $10 million were appropriated for preschool programs and an expansion of full-day kindergarten across Nevada.

Sandoval is widely regarded as a moderate Republican, supporting abortion rights, Obamacare, immigration reform, and renewable energy.

posted by stolyarova at 1:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

I think the more interesting way to consider who will win future seasons of America's Next Top Fascist starts with the observation that we are in the middle of a major media shift, not at the end of one. 2008 was the first election where the Internet/social media was as important as television/mass media. But here in 2016, mass media still exists and is still relevant, even though it's no longer the only game in town. By 2024, television will likely have gone the way of AM radio; sure, a few old crazies will still be paying attention to it, but ultimately it will not be politically relevant compared to the Internet.

America's Next Top Fascist will doubtlessly come from the same alt-right sleazepool that Trump lives in these days, but unlike Trump he'll be a native of it. And he'll¹ be unspeakably weird by 20th century standards, even weirder than Trump.

We're in for a politically... let's say awkward time — digital media practices and institutions are making visible different tendencies than the ones that mass media made visible, but the parties haven't quite caught up with the new terrain, but the parties are the only game in town.

1: gendered language used deliberately here.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

Also possible is a split in the Republican party, with someone like Sandoval representing the non-shitstains and someone like Jason Miller representing the Party of Trump.
posted by stolyarova at 1:59 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mother Jones: I spent 5 years with some of Trump's biggest fans. Here's what they won't tell you.

If you haven't looked at it, I can reiterate that it's worth your time.

Definitely. The article is an excerpt from Arlie Russell Hochschild's forthcoming book, Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right. It distinguishes itself from this summer's various articles in which a liberal journalist heroically reported incredulously from their first Trump rally by its immersion in Trump supporters' lives and its empathy toward them. Its encapsulation of their worldview is worth quoting at length:

What the people I interviewed were drawn to was not necessarily the particulars of these [conspiracy] theories. It was the deep story underlying them—an account of life as it feels to them. Some such account underlies all beliefs, right or left, I think. The deep story of the right goes like this:

You are patiently standing in the middle of a long line stretching toward the horizon, where the American Dream awaits. But as you wait, you see people cutting in line ahead of you. Many of these line-cutters are black—beneficiaries of affirmative action or welfare. Some are career-driven women pushing into jobs they never had before. Then you see immigrants, Mexicans, Somalis, the Syrian refugees yet to come. As you wait in this unmoving line, you're being asked to feel sorry for them all. You have a good heart. But who is deciding who you should feel compassion for? Then you see President Barack Hussein Obama waving the line-cutters forward. He's on their side. In fact, isn't he a line-cutter too? How did this fatherless black guy pay for Harvard? As you wait your turn, Obama is using the money in your pocket to help the line-cutters. He and his liberal backers have removed the shame from taking. The government has become an instrument for redistributing your money to the undeserving. It's not your government anymore; it's theirs.

I checked this distillation with those I interviewed to see if this version of the deep story rang true. Some altered it a bit ("the line-waiters form a new line") or emphasized a particular point (those in back are paying for the line-cutters). But all of them agreed it was their story. One man said, "I live your analogy." Another said, "You read my mind."

These Trumpists aren't going to vanish into thin air on November 9, no matter what the election result.

Fun fact: Prof. Hochschild coined the term "emotional labor".
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:00 PM on August 29, 2016 [113 favorites]

See: Brian Sandoval.

He's a state governor who fucked up an entire industry in his state and has no experience on the national stage. Heller probably isn't retiring in 2018. His next chance to contest a senate seat would be 2022 which would give him the standing to even contest a presidential nomination.
posted by Talez at 2:00 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the solar thing is a stain on Sandoval's otherwise pretty decent tenure as governor. He's a huge improvement over Jim Gibbons, though, and it's hard (as a Nevada resident) not to like him better for not being Gibbons.
posted by stolyarova at 2:02 PM on August 29, 2016

the real danger is if they split the ticket to sweep up all factions of the futureGOP

Handsome Hispanic Business Dude/Incredibly Racist Hatsune Miku Avatar '24

guys we're so fucked, this is def what's gonna happen
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:03 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

At some point, the only way the Republicans can win the presidency on a white supremacist platform will be to split the left and middle of the Democrats - not entirely unlike what happened in Maine during these last two elections with LaPage.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:07 PM on August 29, 2016

I admit that I kind of have a crush on Sandoval. He's handsome!

also he recently adopted a desert tortoise which is the cutest thing
posted by stolyarova at 2:07 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think in 2020 the Republican Party will nominate an actual caterpillar for President — you know, that "nimble navigator" caterpillar that the Trumpists have inexplicably cathected onto — but will withdraw their support after it pivots into a butterfly.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

The only way the GOP is going to win is if the Eisenhower faction wrests control back from the white supremacist faction. Reasonable Republicans need to make themselves heard and not back Diet Batshit Insane (i.e. Cruz) and instead turn to someone like Bloomberg or Bush (if either of them could be convinced to come back to the party).

The qualifications for being a viable Republican candidate shouldn't be "hates abortion, hate immigrants, hates taxes".
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

the meme is for a centipede and those stay horrible and crawly until they die

in other words a much better symbol for D. Trump than a caterpillar, though with all this pivot talk they think they've got a caterpillar and it turns out to have been a nasty centipede all along
posted by stolyarova at 2:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

If there is a god I swear Grover Norquist better have a fucking lot to answer for.
posted by Talez at 2:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

Oh, it's a centipede. that makes so much more sense...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The problem with Merrick Garland is that he will be 64 years old in November. I would like to think that President Clinton and a Democratic Congress can get us a justice with a longer lasting influence.

At this point I'll take any liberal butt in the seat.

I am not looking forward to the government-function-threatening shit fit we can expect for the next n years
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 2:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

'Waiting for the centipede to turn into a butterfly' is a wonderfully apt metaphor for so many things about the American political process...
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:11 PM on August 29, 2016 [76 favorites]

Yeah. It's a UK paper, so they might have misunderstood the metaphor.

It's the Grauniad. They understood perfectly and then fucked it up.
posted by vbfg at 2:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

'Waiting for the centipede to turn into a butterfly'

Beautiful.
posted by stolyarova at 2:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

The next GOP President is IMO going to be a moderate Latino from what is going to be the Republican equivalent of the DLC.

It might take a while. The GOP continues to ignore its own demographic analysis (the so-called 2013 "autopsy"), and Trump has, in the meantime, burned a lot of bridges with the conservative part of the Latino community with talk about deportation squads and walls. Such a candidate would have to have a lot of bona fides to fix the damage done.

*

*
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:15 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

The GOP continues to ignore its own demographic analysis (the so-called 2013 "autopsy"),

In 2008 they had 17 and said "Hit me". In 2012 they had 19 and said "Hit me again". In 2016 they bust and say "Hit me again".
posted by bongo_x at 2:19 PM on August 29, 2016 [23 favorites]

It's the Grauniad

Oh, I thought it was The Guardian. Never noticed that they're anagrams.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:21 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The only way to find out if it is a caterpillar or a centipede is to wrap it tightly in an impenetrable silk cocoon and leave it alone in a dark place until it hatches.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 2:21 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

While I appreciate your thoroughness it is technically possible to tell a centipede from a caterpillar by looking at it.
posted by stolyarova at 2:23 PM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

Couple deleted; leeeet's ease back from joking about ways to harm Republican voters; even as a very very obviously-joking thing, not a good direction for us to go.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:27 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

Bus to November: Bloomberg reporters Esmé E. Deprez and M. Scott Brauer traveled cross country from Philadelphia to Los Angeles this month, traversing over 3,041 miles through 11 states, in 15 buses driven by 17 drivers. They spent two weeks interviewing riders about the US Presidential candidates and upcoming election.

I did almost that same route from Philly to L.A. in two weeks working on a webseries ad campaign for Miller Lite a couple years ago.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:27 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I could totally see the water-carriers of the Trump GOP arguing that we can't possibly know that centipedes never turn into butterflies, typical know-it-all ivory tower liberal elites arrogantly thinking they've got centipedes completely figured out
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

I find myself increasingly interested in what the GOP leadership will do if this election costs them both the White House and the Senate. In the last election, they held meetings to regroup, consider what they did wrong and what they needed to do. They did not change. Now, facing the same situation, they need to embrace demographic change, and yet, to do so is to alienate their base, the tea party leaning white people. How to resolve this? The future of the party is at stake.
posted by Postroad at 2:31 PM on August 29, 2016

>we can't possibly know that centipedes never turn into butterflies,

Is it too late for more 'you can't explain that' jokes?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:31 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh, I thought it was The Guardian. Never noticed that they're anagrams.
They're the same thing. The Grauniad is what the satirical magazine Private Eye calls The Guardian due to their large number of typos.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 2:31 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

Grauniad is like Drumpf, but for newspapers
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:35 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Grauniad is what the satirical magazine Private Eye calls The Guardian due to their large number of typos.

Oh, hah. I think I was thinking of Granta.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Now, facing the same situation, they need to embrace demographic change, and yet, to do so is to alienate their base, the tea party leaning white people. How to resolve this?

Through gerrymandering and vote suppression. And of that doesn't work, violence.
posted by happyroach at 2:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

on the down side, I started a derail about centipedes and caterpillars. On the up side, though, I am apparently kind of ignorant of the details of Trumpist symbolism. This indicates, I think, that there's still a chance I could come away from this election with some small shred of sanity intact. Sure, I've been exposed to how Trumpworld thinks, but I probably haven't taken a lethal dose...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Grauniad is like Drumpf, but for newspapers
Nah, it's a lot more affectionate.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 2:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

@darth:

"of course the actual wall is still the centerpiece of our campaign that has never changed it is a real concret..."
@noahcrothman: Trump backers Giuliani, Perry, and Chris Collins all now using “technological,” “digital,” and “virtual” to describe the wall.

followed by

"a digital and virtual wall is still a very effective wall no body is saying this is going to be a real wa..."
@aaronblake: Trump to CNN on Thursday: "This is going to be a real wall."

this tweetthread is solid gold
posted by Existential Dread at 2:44 PM on August 29, 2016 [38 favorites]

The Emerson poll is landline-only. Skews older.

Sure, but theoretically they compensate for that by increasing the weight of liberal respondents slightly and decreasing the weight of conservative respondents. Polling is more of an art than a science so the weighting may be off but the fact that it is landline-online in and of itself does not make the result wrong given the adjustments.

That said... they have Trump leading Clinton 45-33 among 18-34 year olds in Michigan. That can't possibly be right. Can it?
posted by Justinian at 2:45 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

followed by

"a digital and virtual wall is still a very effective wall no body is saying this is going to be a real wa..."

@aaronblake: Trump to CNN on Thursday: "This is going to be a real wall."

this tweetthread is solid gold

Remember when the thread briefly appeared to be rehashing the debate over original sin?

We've now moved along to the doctrine of the Real Presence.

I can't wait for pentecostalism to happen
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

HRC rolls out a new mental health policy agenda (WaPo):

"The plan, the Democratic nominee said, seeks to fully integrate mental health services into the nation’s health-care system during her tenure as president. Measures include a national suicide prevention initiative, higher payments for providers in the Medicaid program, an emphasis on treatment over jail for low-level criminal offenders with mental health issues and the creation of new housing and job opportunities."

I belong to the 40% of people who have been diagnosed with a serious mental illness and who are currently unable to find local treatment options, so I found her focus on community support to be germane to my interests.
posted by xyzzy at 3:01 PM on August 29, 2016 [63 favorites]

HRC rolls out a new mental health policy agenda

Headline: Clinton's New Mental Health Policy Fails to Address Trump's Virtual Walls
posted by nubs at 3:06 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

"Previously, I thought your policy proposal to build a wall was one of the most wrongheaded and idiotic ideas ever. Now I think it's virtually one of the most wrongheaded and idiotic ideas ever."
posted by defenestration at 3:11 PM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

O. Alan Noble @TheAlanNoble

realizing that every cliché about millennials is true about Trump.
1. Has no work experience in a field but expects to start at the top

2. Has terrible social media habits which endanger his employer
3. Suffers from acute entitlement syndrome
4. Doesn't know history

+ 8 more reasons. And the punchline?

O. Alan Noble @TheAlanNoble

And the BEST PART is that millennials see right through him! HAHAHAHAHA

posted by palindromic at 3:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [36 favorites]

> "Service of truth" is a hard standard because truth isn't always apparent

Indeed. And I have a gut-level fear of people who are sure that the truth is in fact always apparent because it obviously coincides with what they themselves believe. And I see a lot of that on MeFi. (Which, yes, is an echo chamber, though one that I love.)
posted by languagehat at 3:29 PM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

The AP's recent fuckwitted reporting on the Clinton Foundation are Specimins of Old Journalism:

CNN Reliable Sources host Brian Stelter recounts the difficulties the AP had getting Clinton’s meeting records and then asks his audience: “Did they just want to show they had done the work, did they just want to show they had found something, even if it didn’t amount to much?”

Carroll’s answer: “We didn’t say it amounted to the end of the world. We said this is an important and interesting thing that people should know about.”

posted by Dashy at 3:50 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump's Director of Minority Outreach Past Mark Burns tweets a really offensive cartoon of Clinton in blackface. No really. [real]
posted by chris24 at 3:55 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

Carroll’s answer: “We didn’t say it amounted to the end of the world. We said this is an important and interesting thing that people should know about.”

Uh huh. How about looking into Trump's "important and interesting" business dealings? Oh, right. Private sector. Free pass.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:56 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

guys what if all this time he has just been talking about dragging roger waters out of the home for old rockers for one more performance and sticking mexico with the tab
posted by entropicamericana at 3:56 PM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

From that Old Journalism article.

In other words, the AP found no evidence of quid pro quo, no smoking gun, nothing here that was wrong, no rock-solid reason to cast aspersions, no real conclusion. But they went with the story anyway because of the impression people might have — an impression the AP’s story gives them. Yet remember that Carroll says she “can’t be held responsible for the way that everybody thinks about and responds to” this story. Does not compute.

The story should have been that there was no evidence that contributions mattered, but--as was noted on the Keepin' it 1600 podcast-- the press default is that Clinton is guilty. The question is how is she guilty?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]

Trump's Director of Minority Outreach Past Mark Burns tweets a really offensive cartoon of Clinton in blackface. No really. [real]

WTF? That manages to be racist in ways I don't even understand. (Hot sauce?)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:02 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

really offensive cartoon of Clinton in blackface

Hoo, shit. That is...something. Gah.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

pastOR mark burns
posted by chris24 at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2016

Hillary's Hot Sauce Pandering
posted by monospace at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

waitingtoderail: “The Emerson poll is landline-only. Skews older.”

Funny story about that Emerson poll. This happened right in front of my eyes today on Twitter:

Polling Note: Good reason to think today‘s Emerson poll is oversampling GOPs. It was landline only poll. https://t.co/rJrg4UkHqB— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) August 29, 2016

@joshtpm Yes. As co-founder of Senior Votes Count! I can say only older people use land lines, and often vote against their own interests— Jon Bowzer Bauman (@JonBowzerBauman) August 29, 2016

Yes, the "real" Bowzer, apparently.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:06 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Pastor Mark Burns called into MSNBC to defend his tweet.

Its a bit a of a rant, in which he talks about Bill Clinton doing blackface, and about how he won't be PC, and he's pushing Trump's current talking point about how the Democratic party only treats black people as votes.
posted by airish at 4:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Good god, they're going to have that idiot Mark Burns on Hardball tomorrow. The media is going to wreck the country. If you have somebody posting cartoons of people in blackface, you do not invite them on your network! You ban them from it.

I feel like if you took the most despicable people throughout US history that hadn't committed a violent crime, networks today would give that person a forum to spread hate and bigotry and fear. It's just terrible. That pastor is an idiot. I mean it's no secret that many pastors are money-making scumballs who profit off the backs of their congregations, but this guy is out there doing the most ridiculous things.
posted by cashman at 4:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [29 favorites]

Yes, the "real" Bowzer, apparently.

Why does the Mushroom Kingdom think they have the right to meddle in this election
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

Oh, Mark Burns was referencing this photo, which was proven false by Snopes, which claims to show the Clintons in racist outfits.
posted by airish at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

Oh, Mark Burns was referencing this photo, which was proven false by Snopes, which claims to show the Clintons in racist outfits.

It was shit like this that finally made me ask the question: "Is it truly possible that every single thing they've said about this woman is complete and utter bullshit?"

Sadly, it took me a couple more years for the answer to become "Yes."
posted by Mooski at 4:19 PM on August 29, 2016 [38 favorites]

Why does the Mushroom Kingdom think they have the right to meddle in this election

Reminds me of a Twitter conversation I had with friends back in 2012.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:21 PM on August 29, 2016

So what's the "truth" about the right that we're not hearing from the media? OR what's the "truth" about this election we're not hearing from the media? And how do we have access to that "truth"?

Regarding the media supplanting truthseeking with horserace-tracking, the truth that is supplanted is stuff like actual policy details.
posted by rhizome at 4:25 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Jon Bowzer Bauman seems pretty awesome. His twitter picture roll is all kinds of charming.

Plus this:
Bauman tours extensively with his Bowzer and the Stingrays group at fairs, amusement parks, cruise ships, malt shoppes and conventions all over the world. They headline "Bowzer's Ultimate Milkshake Party ".

(I only know Sha Na Na from Andy Daly/Comedy Bang Bang so it was a pleasant surprise to me.)
posted by kittensofthenight at 4:25 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

As for Bannon vs. Weiner, the comparison makes no sense. Committing domestic violence is not the same as being slut-shamed.
posted by rhizome at 4:26 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's a stupid comparison and Weiner isn't involved in the campaign and it's a distraction from real issues.

But I think you water down the real phenomenon of slut-shaming by applying it to a dude sending sexts outside his marriage with his kids in bed with him while publicly embarrassing his wife.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

Now, facing the same situation, they need to embrace demographic change

But do they? I think they'll believe that they can filibuster away, run bullshit Clinton Rules scandals in the House, take back the Senate in 2018, and use that as a platform for 2020, which in turn creates possibilities to lock down the US House and state legislatures for another decade.

The base plus midterm turnout plus existing control of state governments plus the capacity to map districts' voting preferences down to the block makes for a potent balm against demographic change, especially if Trumpism remains part of the mainstream political discourse like the emissions from a toxic chemical plant.
posted by holgate at 4:31 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Criticize Colin Kaepernick but support Donald Trump? Think again

Wealthy people criticize America regularly without incurring the criticism Kaepernick did this weekend — and in fact, one of them is running for president.

Peter Wade articulated as much for Esquire: "And let's not forget we have a presidential candidate whose campaign slogan is Make America Great Again. The key word in that phrase is 'again,' meaning that America right now is not great."

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

Fired Manager Corey Lewandowski Still Involved in Donald Trump Campaign

a few weeks and a lucrative cable network contract later, Lewandowski is back in the fold, according to multiple campaign sources. They describe Lewandowski’s relationship with the candidate as “stronger than ever.”

Each day, Trump wakes up, usually in his Fifth Avenue penthouse, and has a routine round of calls, sources say, that includes his campaign leadership (which has changed in recent weeks), his children, some close allies and someone else quite frequently: Lewandowski.

“They talk almost every day,” one senior level campaign staffer said, requesting anonymity.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The base plus midterm turnout plus existing control of state governments plus the capacity to map districts' voting preferences down to the block makes for a potent balm against demographic change, especially if Trumpism remains part of the mainstream political discourse like the emissions from a toxic chemical plant.

There's a chance that gerrymandering is going to have SCOTUS review before the 2020 census. A pair of Maryland Democrats are suing on First Amendment grounds in a case about Democratic gerrymandering in MD's 6th district. The case was originally thrown out by a federal judge in 2014 but resurrected when SCOTUS determined that the case should have been reviewed by a three-judge panel. That review just occurred and the panel ruled that the case should go forward.
posted by xyzzy at 4:39 PM on August 29, 2016 [25 favorites]

Well, this is not going to help media consumers' ability to tell [real] and [fake] apart:

Facebook fires trending team, and algorithm without humans goes crazy
Module pushes out false story about Fox’s Megyn Kelly, offensive Ann Coulter headline and a story link about a man masturbating with a McDonald’s sandwich

Grauniad, [real] (I assume)

And yes, the sandwich in question was indeed chicken.
posted by Westringia F. at 4:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [25 favorites]

(I only know Sha Na Na from Andy Daly/Comedy Bang Bang so it was a pleasant surprise to me.)

Really? Never seen Woodstock, eh? Go take a look, and imagine what all those LSD-saturated heads made of them as they took the stage.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

WaPo: Trump enlists veteran Florida strategist Susie Wiles as communications adviser

Veteran Florida Republican strategist Susie Wiles is joining Donald Trump's campaign as senior adviser for battleground communications, the latest in a series of staffing moves with 10 weeks left until the election.

Wiles, who is a co-chair of Trump's Florida campaign, managed Florida Gov. Rick Scott's 2010 campaign for governor. During a career in politics and government that has spanned more than three decades, she also worked as a scheduler for Ronald Reagan.

Seems like an odd move on Wiles part. She obviously has a solid background and impressive CV so why would she sign on with the HMS Trumptanic?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on August 29, 2016

CNN Rocked By Report That Cory Lewandowski Is Still Working With Donald Trump

CNN had a problem after campaign finance documents revealed that Cory Lewandowski was still being paid by Donald Trump.

The problem has grown now that ABC News reported that Lewandowski is still closely involved with the Trump campaign[...]

The ABC report is especially damaging because it states that Trump has ordered that Lewandowski is given full security clearance at any rally he attends and that the former campaign manager was “running the show” at a recent Trump rally in New Hampshire.

CNN deserves to eat every bite of this shit sandwich of their own making.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on August 29, 2016 [68 favorites]

Media outlet lays with dogs, gets fleas.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:54 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Awwww, Jon Bowzer Bauman From Sha-Na-Na Campaigns With Hillary Clinton in Iowa (January, 2016).
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

Russian hackers breached a computer used by county elections officials in Arizona

The FBI says it has found breaches in voter registration systems in Illinois and Arizona, and it's urging states to increase their computer security ahead of the November presidential election. Hackers targeted voter registration systems in Illinois and Arizona, and the FBI alerted Arizona officials in June that Russian hackers were behind the assault on the election system in that state.

Source: WaPo [real]

Fucking fantastic.
posted by Westringia F. at 4:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [31 favorites]

How is CNN the last to know about this? It's been the topic of discussion in multiple news outlets ever since they hired him several months ago.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:58 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]

Seems like an odd move on Wiles part. She obviously has a solid background and impressive CV so why would she sign on with the HMS Trumptanic?

They'll pay her seven figures for 10 weeks work.

Who here wouldn't take that deal?
posted by Talez at 4:58 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

BREAKING: CNN discovers two months after everyone else already knew that they were carelessly violating pretty much every single journalistic ethics guideline possible.
posted by xyzzy at 5:00 PM on August 29, 2016 [53 favorites]

Seriously, how the fuck is CNN suprised by this?
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

CNN is shocked, shocked.

(that anyone noticed their slimy move)
posted by Yowser at 5:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Seriously, how the fuck is CNN suprised by this?

Maybe they'll rip a page right out of the Trump playbook and turn it around: "How the fuck are any of you surprised by this?"
posted by Mooski at 5:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Westringia, I saw the stock "cybercrime" photo in that article and for a moment I honestly thought the fingers in the photo were green because they were supposed to be Pepe's fingers. This is doubtful, although it would have been highly appropriate.

I wish to hell it was feasible to replace those systems with paper, or at least use only air-gapped machines and computers guarded at every step, the way ballots are. I bet if it were the Democratic candidate that the hackers are likely to interfere for, there'd be a lot more noise on this story.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:09 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Charles Pierce: We Just Got a Preview of What Hillary Clinton's Presidency Will Be Like: Jason Chaffetz debuts the next stage of the endless Clinton investigation.
posted by homunculus at 5:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Earlier quoted:
Election officials in more than two dozen states have compiled lists of citizens whom they allege could be registered in more than one state – thus potentially able to cast multiple ballots – and eligible to be purged from the voter rolls.
Which two dozen states? Would flipping ALL of them to Red win the election for Trump? I suspect maybe not, considering who is already in charge - Republicans.

Voter Suppression IS Voter Fraud. Pass it on.

As co-founder of Senior Votes Count! I can say only older people use land lines, and often vote against their own interests
I've told many times of my Young Republican experience of witnessing a deal between nursing home owners and Republican ops to have people come in to "help" older residents fill out absentee ballots in California. I never reported it because my GOP Activist Mother was too close to it, but I've never seen any news in the 44 years since of such a scheme being exposed, and I can't believe that this was the only place/time it happened. But it has explained much of the Republican advantage with really-older voters to me.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

Awwww, Jon Bowzer Bauman From Sha-Na-Na Campaigns With Hillary Clinton in Iowa

He did the pose!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Given the average retirement age for a Supreme Court Justice Garland would be likely to serve at least 20 years. That's certainly long enough to leave a mark on the court.
posted by humanfont at 5:15 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump Campaign Embeds Staff Member with the Media, But Clinton's Aide's Husband is a Jerk
posted by nubs at 5:18 PM on August 29, 2016 [24 favorites]

Fired Manager Corey Lewandowski Still Involved in Donald Trump Campaign

Watch for him on CNN, guy's a true believer (in Trump as president or Trump as eventual benefactor for his career, which is very likely the case as lover or hate him Businessman Trump seems loyal to "his people".)

(Lewandowski continued to revive "severance" at least as recently as a few weeks ago when there was a disclosure on a CNN interview)
posted by sammyo at 5:22 PM on August 29, 2016

Shitmittens was very popular for Romney in MeFi 4 years ago, so there is a bit of precedent here.

For the record, "shitmittens" has been part of the MeFi lexicon since 2003.
posted by homunculus at 5:23 PM on August 29, 2016

Can someone explain to this Canadian what the advantage of voting machines are, and why Americans don't just use the hack proof pencil and paper approach?
posted by peppermind at 5:23 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

the hack proof pencil and paper approach

There was a push after the 2000 election, where issues with paper ballots were the problem (although that was the "punch a hole" style). I suspect paper and pencil has the same kind of edge cases (marking outside the lines, not filling in enough, accidentally marking 2, etc --- pencil versions of "hanging chads")).

In theory voting machines would avoid those kinds of issues (no selecting 2 people for same office, no hanging chads, no "not filling in circle enough for machine" or whatever). But of course there are other issues.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:27 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Because we are voting on like 12 different things on one ballot, so it's way less error-prone to have some sort of automatic counting method.
There are also polling places that have to offer a bunch of different ballots (primaries and/or early voting), so a touch-screen is more likely to get you the right ballot than a volunteer poll worker is.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:28 PM on August 29, 2016

Upthread there's a discussion about false equivalencies in the media and why this happens. Here are my (somewhat late) thoughts:

There's (for lack of better words) a cognitive effort required to make the connection between what people say, what they do, and the outcomes that result from their words and actions. Someone has to make that cognitive effort in order for news to matter.

Media too often focuses on superficially reporting the words. Less often, they report actions. Even less, the context and results of actions.

The NYT has more resources to devote to news, so they often have better reporting. But when they take the shortcut of reporting without doing the in-depth cognitive effort, they can get hijacked by propagandists. Most media has fewer resources to offer and is correspondingly more likely to err.

IMHO, PBS Newshour does very well at balancing all steps of reporting. The NYT appears to rely on critical and informed readers to do the cognitive effort. Other outlets (FOX, Breitbart) appear to rely on consumers NOT to do the cognitive effort so that the media can promote a specific agenda.

MetaFilter election threads crowdsource reporting. I see raw news, I see opinion/commentary, and there's always interpretation/context available if someone asks politely.
posted by Emmy Noether at 5:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

Can someone explain to this Canadian what the advantage of voting machines are, and why Americans don't just use the hack proof pencil and paper approach?

First, pencil and paper isn't hack proof. It does take a physical heist however.

Second I think that the reason they do it is because (depending on state) they don't just elect political representatives but coroners, police chiefs, and judges. (And campaigns to become a judge are their own bundle of wrong).
posted by Francis at 5:29 PM on August 29, 2016

My amuse. I use Https Everywhere and when I follow Huffy Puffy's link, it redirects to an error message at
https://www.senate.gov. How can I be sure I'm not getting some injected corrupted version of the Constitution from the insecure connection? ;)

Request unable to be completed.

The submitted https request was not able to be completed at this time.

Please retry your request using http. This may require disabling some browser based plug-ins.

http://www.senate.gov

(Please don't go into solutions mode here guys, I am fully capable of jumping through the required hoop to pull up the link, I'm just WTF ... LOL that I have to hoop jump. I can't even)
posted by Autumn Leaf at 5:29 PM on August 29, 2016

Second I think that the reason they do it is because (depending on state) they don't just elect political representatives but coroners, police chiefs, and judges.

Don't forget direct voting on laws (propositions) in some states. In California this year we have 17 specific propositions to vote on in addition to all the candidate races. Our ballots are pretty big...
posted by thefoxgod at 5:31 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yes, paper ballots are harder to hack, but note that the hack in question wasn't targeting the voting machines per se; it was targeting the computers that contain voter registration records. If voters don't appear on the rolls, the question of whether the ballot is paper or electronic becomes immaterial. All those registration drives and handy registration-verifying links are only as strong as the security of their databases.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [21 favorites]

Dr. Jill Stein, pandering to single-issue Harambe voters:

The killing of Harambe 3 months ago today reminds us to be a voice for the voiceless.

posted by chrchr at 5:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

The twitter parody account AP_Headlines is gone. Well that was a lot of fun while it lasted.
posted by cashman at 5:33 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

They changed the handle to @A_Headlines.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:35 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hey, man, it's hard enough to fit the parchment through the tubes in the first place, and that's before scrambling it up with encryption. Just ask some random dude to lend you his copy.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Only the name has been changed to protect themselves, because AP pays their lawyers better than they pay their reporters.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:38 PM on August 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

CNN is shocked... SHOCKED that there is gambling in this establishment.
posted by drezdn at 5:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

... and meanwhile, hack attempts play right into legitimizing Trump's election-theft fearmongering. How long before we hear someone draw baseless parallels between unsecured voter registration databases and email servers?
posted by Westringia F. at 5:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

because AP pays their lawyers better than they pay their reporters.

It's crazy that we live in a world where a) this is true and b) it makes perfect sense.
posted by Mooski at 5:43 PM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

> Yes, paper ballots are harder to hack, but note that the hack in question wasn't targeting the voting machines per se; it was targeting the computers that contain voter registration records. If voters don't appear on the rolls, the question of whether the ballot is paper or electronic becomes immaterial. All those registration drives and handy registration-verifying links are only as strong as the security of their databases.

One of my (many, many) hobbyhorses is the idea that the use of computers should be strongly discouraged in anything connected to elections for any office that gives the officeholder real power. Every part of the process — registration, voting itself, tabulation — should be carried out on media big enough and clear enough to read with the naked eye. Once you start recording voting-related information as electronic charges on chips rather than as big, easily legible marks, you're opening up the possibility for all sorts of shenanigans.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:45 PM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

why Americans don't just use the hack proof pencil and paper approach?

Most Americans do in fact vote with pencil (or pen) and paper. Unlike Canada, the ballots are counted with optical scanners (like scantron tests), which are more accurate than hand-counting for complex forms or ballots in addition to being way-the-fuck faster.

Direct-recording voting machines like you're thinking of do have a few real advantages. If you're using voting machines, how many ballots are in English? All of them. How many are in Spanish? Also all of them. How many are in Russian? Chinese? Tagalog? Lakota? All of them are in every available language, in large type if needed. Voting machines can also be configured to prohibit overvotes instead of just spoiling that ballot.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:45 PM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

Steve
posted by drezdn at 5:50 PM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

Steve Stephenson cocked one ear, then his gun. "It's the dronebuggies" he growled, "Get in the trunk woman or I'll gong you unconscious and toss you in myself to protect you". Chelsea finally lowered the AR-15 and gulped raw fear. "Fine, but how did you find me anyway?"
"It was easy" spat-chuckled the ex-Coast Guard Ranger, itching his #NEVERTRUMP forehead tat, "you were cooking hummus. Bet you didn't even know it was illegal!"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:56 PM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

Put in a hot falafel-in-the-shower scene and you're gold. You'll be discounted at Sam's Club in a heartbeat.
posted by delfin at 5:56 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

the literary critics support me in MeMail
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:58 PM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]

Anyway fon't forget to vote for Tivalasvegas for President of Metafilter Election Threads this Election night folks. No running mate yet but I'm sure she'll announce one soon.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:59 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

He's a state governor who fucked up an entire industry in his state and has no experience on the national stage. Heller probably isn't retiring in 2018. His next chance to contest a senate seat would be 2022 which would give him the standing to even contest a presidential nomination.

Four of the past six presidents entered the race as governors.
posted by one_bean at 6:05 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

I know this is relevant to hours-ago in this thread, but hey, at least I did catch up to the thread. Can someone educate the poor foreigner about what is meant by "going nuclear" about the filibuster? Is there some way, that invokes very extraordinary powers or whatever, that can deny or stop a filibuster?
posted by seyirci at 6:08 PM on August 29, 2016

Shitmittens was very popular for Romney in MeFi 4 years ago, so there is a bit of precedent here.

For the record, "shitmittens" has been part of the MeFi lexicon since 2003.

And then there's this.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:10 PM on August 29, 2016

The filibuster is a procedure governed by the rules of the Senate. At the start of the Senate's term, Senators can change the rules governing the Senate through a simple majority vote. Which cannot be filibustered. So the nuclear option is the Senate voting with a majority vote to change the rules allowing the filibuster of judicial nominees.
posted by Justinian at 6:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

The fillibuster is a rule of the Senate, it isn't part of the constitution. The Senate can, by majority vote, change its own rules. If the Democrats have the majority, they could eliminate the fillibuster, if they so chose.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:12 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can someone educate the poor foreigner about what is meant by "going nuclear" about the filibuster? Is there some way, that invokes very extraordinary powers or whatever, that can deny or stop a filibuster?

Going nuclear means effectively eliminating the current filibuster rule. It's a long-standing tradition, so eliminating it is seen as drastic (plus it could come back and bite the party that did it in as little as two years.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

It is called the nuclear option because the Senate at least pretends to be a professional deliberative body capable of negotiation, compromise and statesmanship; reducing the threshold to 51 blows all of that away and turns it into simple we-have-more-people-so-we-pass-whatever-we-want partisanship.

It is also called that because, like nuclear weapons, it carries with it mutual assured destruction as a deterrent -- the majority party will be a minority someday and subject to the same treatment.
posted by delfin at 6:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

A sufficiently motivated programmer with moderate skills and a bit of political/monetary incentive can almost certainly program a computer based voting machine to wait till a reasonable number of votes are cast for each candidate, then bias the count for a favored candidate by randomly changing votes (if necessary) with a sufficient bias to produce a win. (Except perhaps precincts with a very heavy slant against the favored outcome.) A bit more skill may be required to obfuscate the code enough to make it hard to detect, but not too much.

But obfuscation doesn't really matter as the makers of the voting machines/software will not allow anyone to audit their code anyway.
posted by Death and Gravity at 6:14 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

At the start of each new Congress, each house approves its rules by majority vote. Anytime after that, it takes a supermajority (often 2/3) to change or suspend the rules.

Except. If there is a question of the rules, the President of the Senate will make a ruling, and that ruling can be overturned by a majority vote. This is standard in most deliberative bodies, but still puts the lie to the idea that it takes 2/3 to change the rules.

The "nuclear option" is to outlaw filibusters by a majority vote. It would destroy the collegiality, assumptions of good faith, etc. (You know, assuming they were there in the first place.)
It would result in retaliation; the Senate rules are burdensome enough that pretty much any actual functioning business requires unanimous consent to get to the voting part, and we would be kissing that goodbye.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:16 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

A good Wikipedia article about the Nuclear option. Though the explanations here are kinda better.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:17 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The supermajority requirement was removed for confirmations other than the Supreme Court in 2013. Things moved along fairly well for a while...
posted by Surely This at 6:18 PM on August 29, 2016

Of course, many of those other rules could be eliminated as well. Blue slipping has been trimmed back, but there are still secret holds and the like.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:19 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The real problem is that if the majority party actually gets all the power, Senators will be no better than mere Representatives. The minority party in the House might as well not show up, most of the time.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The minority party in the House might as well not show up, most of the time.

But isn't that how it is now? The Republicans are so hell-bent on obstructing the President that they have the Senate frozen in gridlock. Ask Mr. McConnell about that...
posted by Surely This at 6:34 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

It would destroy the collegiality, assumptions of good faith, etc. (You know, assuming they were there in the first place.)

I think the Merrick Garland situation has demonstrated there is zero good faith remaining. Its down to simple partisanship already. Might as well make it official. There is no real bipartisanship or collegiality left (its been on a slide for years, but the SC stuff this year is a clear-cut demonstration).
posted by thefoxgod at 6:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Former Romney strategist Stuart Stevens meets with independent candidate

This meeting with choke-architect Stuart Stevens could be just the thing the McMuffin campaign needs!
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:37 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is the McMuffin campaign still a thing? If you have less traction than Jill Stein maybe try something else as a hobby.
posted by Justinian at 6:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The 113th Congress (2013-2014) passed 212 substantive and 84 ceremonial laws. The 108th Congress (2003-2004) passed 368 substantive and 130 ceremonial laws. That is a phenomenal reduction in the People's business getting done.
posted by xyzzy at 6:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

This meeting with choke-architect Stuart Stevens could be just the thing the McMuffin campaign needs!

People are hungry for change!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:43 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

> The minority party in the House might as well not show up, most of the time.

I gotta admit, as a long-time admirer of the Westminster system, I actually kind of prefer it when legislative bodies are run along these lines. It clarifies the process of voting dramatically — if there is absolute party discipline among elected officials, you get to more or less vote for a party manifesto, rather than having to assess the individual qualities of individual candidates. In a real sense it's more small-d democratic than less partisan systems.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:44 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The trend in the last few years has been to return to paper ballots as equipment is replaced. According to The Hill 70% of voters used paper ballots in 2014 and the number is expected to be higher this year. The number of places using a pure computer solution with no paper audit is gradually going down.
posted by humanfont at 6:46 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Can someone explain to this Canadian what the advantage of voting machines are, and why Americans don't just use the hack proof pencil and paper approach?

This question gets asked a lot by Canadians and it is because they have no idea of the crazy political system in the U.S. in which voters are asked to cast ballots for dozens of various government officials at different levels as opposed to a parliamentary system. A typical ballot looks more like a three-hour SAT exam than a voting form. Here are some officials that might appear on the ballot.

U.S. President
U.S. Senator
U.S. Congressman
State Governor
State Lt. Governor
Secretary of State
State Treasurer
State Auditor
State Attorney General
State Commissioner of Public Lands
State Superintendent of Schools
State Insurance Commissioner
State senator
State legislator
State Supreme Court Judges
County Sheriff
County Commissioners
County judges
City Mayor
City council members
City school board members
City judges
A dozen tax levies and bond issues at state, county and city levels
A dozen state ballot initiatives to change or enact various laws
... and many more.

It it totally nuts. Most people have no idea what or whom they are voting for. Most of these should be appointed positions -- you vote for the person at the top and they make the appointments. Legal initiatives and taxes should be handled by the legislature, not individual votes.

From the Canadians you hear "Hey, we just mark a couple of X's on a piece of paper and then we hand count them before midnight."
posted by JackFlash at 7:02 PM on August 29, 2016 [22 favorites]

From the Canadians you hear "Hey, we just mark a couple of X's on a piece of paper and then we hand count them before midnight."

To be fair, it's probably a lot easier to hand count ~16 million votes than ~125 million.
posted by xyzzy at 7:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

It is, but not that much easier since the votes are counted locally. The real issue is as JackFlash says; we're voting for so many things, many of which people have no clue about.

It would be vastly easier to count 125 million ballots voting for one or two offices than 16 million ballots voting for 30 offices and 12 ballot propositions.
posted by Justinian at 7:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

>> the hack in question wasn't targeting the voting machines per se; it was targeting the computers that contain voter registration records

> Once you start recording voting-related information as electronic charges on chips rather than as big, easily legible marks, you're opening up the possibility for all sorts of shenanigans.

On my way home I was mulling over what I would do if I were a Bad Actor [NB, NSA & FBI: I am not], and it goes something like this:

1. Sloppily "attempt" to hack right-leaning states (like, say, Arizona above), not so sloppily as to be an obvious ruse, not so slyly as to escape notice. The purpose here is not to succeed, but to get caught. Bonus points* for making it look like the attack is trying to force a buffer overrun with a SQL query to gather information (or delete) specifically R-registered voters. Call this the Propaganda Decoy Hack.

2. In a real hack, rather than removing any data, plant fictitious voter records with common minority--associated names and let Crosscheck do the dirty work of canceling the registration of voters whose names collided with the plants as "fraudulent". (Note that this strategy does not require specifically targeting D-leaning states, and possibly not even targeting states themselves; it may be enough to man-in-the-middle the Crosscheck list and let states' reliance on it do the rest. Who is crosschecking Crosscheck?) Ideally*, this attack should be launched from a US IP address in a heavily blue state (and better* yet, from a .edu address) as an insurance policy: if it succeeds undetected, the hacker will have successfully disenfranchised voters who statistically lean left; if it fails and is caught, it feeds the right wing with "Dems are trying to throw the election with voter fraud" talking points aplenty.

So that's my nightmare variation for the evening: vote delegitimization by appearance alone.

* "Bonus", "ideal", "better", &c from the Bad Actor's perspective, not mine.
posted by Westringia F. at 7:16 PM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

To give outsiders an idea of what it can be like in the USA... here are the ballot propositions we in California will be voting on in November. Note that this is only the statewide ballot propositions. It does not include any of the offices (such as President) that we will be voting for, nor any local or county issues.

Proposition 51: Authorizes issuance and sale of $9 billion in bonds for education and schools
Proposition 52: Requires voter approval of changes to the hospital fee program
Proposition 53: Requires voter approval for projects that cost more than $2 billion funded by revenue bonds
Proposition 54: Prohibits the legislature from passing any bill until it has been in print and published on the Internet for 72 hours prior to the vote
Proposition 55: Extends the temporary personal income tax increases on incomes over $250,000 implemented by Proposition 30
Proposition 56: Increases the cigarette tax to $2.00 per pack
Proposition 57: Increases parole chances for felons convicted of non-violent crimes and gives them more opportunities to earn credits for good behavior
Proposition 58: Repeals Prop 227 of 1998, thus allowing for bilingual education in public schools
Proposition 59: Indicates whether voters approve of California State Legislators using what influence they have over federal issues to overturn Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission and "to make clear that corporations should not have the same constitutional rights as human beings."
Proposition 60: Requires the use of condoms in all pornographic films featuring sexual intercourse produced in California
Proposition 61: Prohibits state agencies from paying more for a prescription drug than the lowest price paid for the same drug by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs
Proposition 62: Repeals the death penalty in the state of California
Proposition 63: Prohibits possession of large capacity ammunition magazines and requires individuals to pass a background check and receive authorization from the Department of Justice in order to purchase ammunition
Proposition 64: Legalizes marijuana and hemp under state law and enacts certain sales and cultivation taxes
Proposition 65: Redirects money collected from the sale of grocery and retail carry-out bags to a special fund administered by the Wildlife Conservation Board
Proposition 66: Changes procedures governing state court appeals and petitions challenging death penalty convictions and sentences
Proposition 67: Ratifies SB 270, thus prohibiting plastic single-use carryout bags

It's insane. Do you know what "requires voter approval of changes to the hospital fee program" means? Of course you don't. Neither will 98% of people voting on it. And apparently it is a good use of the state's time and money for us to vote on whether people boning on camera have to wear jimmies. For fuck's sake.
posted by Justinian at 7:22 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

rorgy: "What is the Alt Right? A report by The Onion."

[ostensibly fake, but hard to disagree with them on any particular point]
posted by schmod at 7:22 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't live in a state with direct democracy, so my ballots are reasonably free of cruft. However, I can only thank states that allow their citizens to vote blatantly unconstitutional crap into law so that the rest of the country can benefit from the inevitable SCOTUS decisions.
posted by xyzzy at 7:23 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

At least I'm going to get to vote us some awesome weed so that I'm less depressed by the voting system.
posted by Justinian at 7:25 PM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]

According to The Hill 70% of voters used paper ballots in 2014 and the number is expected to be higher this year.

Unless they are counting punch-card type systems as "paper ballots," I find that 70% number hard to believe.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:25 PM on August 29, 2016

Why do Americans even bother electing officials, if you have so many fucking referendums (sorry, proposals)

You clearly aren't down with representative democracy.
posted by Yowser at 7:25 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

You clearly aren't down with representative democracy.

Forget it, Jake, it's California.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:26 PM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

I can see the point of the proposition system for things where the legislature has trouble, particularly controversial issues. Its a lot easier to let the public legalize marijuana than to vote on it yourself, from the point of view of a legislator. Broad questions like that or repealing the death penalty I can kind of get behind as propositions (admittedly largely because legislators are not very bold on changing these things out of fear, but I don't see a way to change that).

And these broad questions are fairly easy for voters to understand. Death penalty? I'm voting to repeal. Marijuana? Voting to legalize. Easy.

But voting on the amount of the cigarette tax? Or hospital fees? Thats what I elect my reps to do. I don't want to spend my time researching the details of hospital fee structures, I literally pay someone (representatives) to do that for me.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

> And apparently it is a good use of the state's time and money for us to vote on whether people boning on camera have to wear jimmies.

Harm-reduction measures that improve public health are a good use of the state's time and money. But more critically, this comment has now ruined sundaes for me forever.
posted by Westringia F. at 7:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

By the way, Pastor Mark Burns' twitter account (referenced up here, in regard to an apparently offensive and racist cartoon) has apparently now been deleted entirely.
posted by yhbc at 7:30 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

who calls them anything but "sprinkles"

really it's like you want to ruin america
posted by stolyarova at 7:30 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

If Prop 64 passes when does the Weedocalypse happen? Right away? Asking for a friend.
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Apparently.
posted by yhbc at 7:31 PM on August 29, 2016

So what I've done is set myself a reminder to check my voter registration status a little bit before early voting begins in my state. Here is a chart someone provided in the last thread, that shows early voting for each state. Don't let yourself get 'magically' unregistered!

I challenge everyone here to do these 3 simple things:

1) Right now, look up your state's deadline for registering for this election.

2) Set an alarm on your phone right now for 3 weeks before that date

3) When the alarm goes off, check your status on this website. If you're been invalidated, fight like hell to get squared away and let everybody know.
posted by msalt at 7:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

California is admittedly the worst example of ballot silliness. But it stems from early state history where the elected officials were caught in all kinds of corrupt shenanigans. And it's hard to undo because so much of it is constitutional now. :(
posted by R343L at 7:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Proposition 51: Authorizes issuance and sale of $9 billion in bonds for education and schools

The craptastic thing about putting these referendums to the voter is that the vast majority of said voters have no goddamn clue what shit costs on the scale that city, state and national governments have to operate at. They see a number like "$9 billion" and they go insane. It's illogical to ever put such issues to a popular vote.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

I wonder how many people will vote simultaneously to end the death penalty in CA (Prop 62) AND make it easier to kill people on death row by limiting due process (Prop 66). Also, would that be Order 66?
posted by xyzzy at 7:34 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Just a point of order, Prop 60 has the primary effect of making it super easy and rewarding to harass adult film workers
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:34 PM on August 29, 2016 [15 favorites]

Just a point of order, Prop 60 has the primary effect of making it super easy and rewarding to harass adult film workers.

Wasn't there a DFX shop working on digitally retouching the condoms out of the videos?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:38 PM on August 29, 2016

Thank you, Rainbo Vagrant! I didn't understand those ramifications before. (And here I serve as an example of why putting every last question to a popular vote is a horrible idea....)
posted by Westringia F. at 7:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Phone banking for the local congressional race tonight. Young staffers seemed down- lots of their volunteers going back to school, uphill climb to Election Day but they've already been working like dogs for a long time. Moral: give your local campaign some attention if you can. Even one night a week will really help them out.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yeah, amazingly the Democratic, Republican, and Libertarian parties ALL oppose Prop 60. Not sure how the polling looks but how often do all 3 agree on something?
posted by thefoxgod at 7:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh my god, Justinian. My face was just :| reading through that long ass list. I'm...I'm going to have to start reading up now if I want to be a Responsible Voter, aren't I.
posted by yasaman at 7:47 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Pastor Burns's Favorite Cartoonist is Consistently Terrible

This is what folks on the other end of the political spectrum think is brilliant political commentary. I throw up my hands.

posted by tonycpsu at 7:52 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Is the McMuffin campaign still a thing? If you have less traction than Jill Stein maybe try something else as a hobby.

Some really savvy Mefite whose name I unfortunately forget pointed out that Gary Johnson and Evan McMullin's vote, combined, approach near Hillary Clinton's share of the vote in Utah, where Trump is currently leading. If #neverTrump had only one combined candidate (Johnson), it would take something like I want to say 10% of the people currently voting for Clinton to flip the EV to Johnson, and take it away from Trump. I'm willing to buy this is a Deep Republican ploy to avoid Utah flipping.
posted by corb at 7:53 PM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

If you're in California, Vote by Mail is the only way to handle these long ballots. No extra requirements to sign up and you get to sit at home to figure out which propositions directly conflict with other ones. Still not a lot of fun, but better than making an uninformed decision at the polling place because both are worded as confusingly as possible.
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:56 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

I look at this piece by Pastor Burns's favorite cartoonist and I'm like "yeah! take that, eagle! take that, flag! the land itself rejects you! full geological communism now!" which is probably not the intended message.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]

It's not that bad - you take the info pamphlet they send you, read up on all the stuff that's not slam-dunk one way or the other and mark everything down ahead of time, take that to your polling place (you're kind of expected to anyway), and copy your marks from earlier. Having been out of California the last few years, I really miss those info pamphlets.
posted by LionIndex at 7:59 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Well I mean it's not like you have wait until you're at the ballot booth to decide, California even mails out sample ballots and the text of the propositions ahead of time.
posted by ckape at 8:00 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

And arguments for and against various propositions, and rebuttals to the arguments, and candidate info statements for all the waaaaay downballot folks you never heard of.
posted by LionIndex at 8:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wasn't there a DFX shop working on digitally retouching the condoms out of the videos?

That creates its own headache for the people involved because Prop 60 includes a rebuttable presumption that any film without visible condoms was in fact not using condoms and is therefore illegal. Anybody who uses that VFX would be subject to lawsuits where they'd have to prove they really did use condoms and VFX, over and over -- it's an invitation to nuisance suits.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:08 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

What's the procedure for an obvious invalid election? Like Westringia F. was saying, it seems like more long-term damage could be done by hacking badly and getting caught after the point of no return. What then? Same administration hangs over until a new election can be arranged? That might involve nuking the registration rolls completely and rebuilding from scratch, which would take a long time. Probably also involve many lengthy legal challenges.
posted by ctmf at 8:11 PM on August 29, 2016

What's the procedure for an obvious invalid election?

I think it goes like this:

Sue in the county/state where the problem occured -> take it to the supremes -> 4-4 deadlock -> constitutional crisis -> military coup -> war with russia
posted by dis_integration at 8:19 PM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

No, no, no, no. It's a Federal issue. You have to sue in the Federal district court for the district in which you reside.

Then proceed as above.
posted by yhbc at 8:23 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Mark Burns' twitter feed is alive and well. Although he's posted an 11-minute apology for the cartoon, which I cannot be bothered to listen to.
posted by mochapickle at 8:25 PM on August 29, 2016

Also, he called it a Twit instead of a tweet. So.
posted by mochapickle at 8:26 PM on August 29, 2016

From the inbox files...

[Name]--

Calling all young professionals and millennials!

You're invited to join DC for45 -- the group of young professionals and millennials for Hillary -- for a Happy Hour with Tim Kaine!

I hope you will join us the evening of September 10th in Washington, DC, in support of Hillary and the Hillary Victory Fund.

I can't promise Tim Kaine will play his harmonica, but we are very excited to announce that world-renowned DJ Cassidy will provide the tunes.

"Aw, dad...!! Not in front of DJ Cassidy!"
posted by zennie at 8:31 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yeah, amazingly the Democratic, Republican, and Libertarian parties ALL oppose Prop 60. Not sure how the polling looks but how often do all 3 agree on something?

Because the measure is fully funded by Michael Weinstein of AHF, the one douchebag to rule them all. Anti-PrEP, slut-shaming, sex negative, money grubbing son of a bitch.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

At the start of the Senate's term, Senators can change the rules governing the Senate through a simple majority vote. Which cannot be filibustered. So the nuclear option is the Senate voting with a majority vote to change the rules allowing the filibuster of judicial nominees.

This is one way. I'd need to go look at the Oleszek bible but IIRC the Senate doesn't normally vote on its own rules at the beginning of the session. As a "continuing body," it just keeps on with the existing rules unless someone changes them. So one way of using the nuclear option would be for someone to make a motion with respect to adopting the rules, even though this isn't normally done.

The way I've more commonly seen this described though is that the Senate would, basically, violate its own rules and then ex post declare that violation to be the rules. Because the Senate's rules mean whatever the Senate says they do, no matter how contrary-to-fact that is.

The way this would work is that someone would be filibustering and MajorityMember would make any of several different motions that would end the filibuster. The most obvious would be to move the previous question, which is parliamentary-ese for "Fuck it, let's vote." THEN MinorityMember would say, nicely, "Fuck you, that's against the rules and you can't do that." And the person presiding at the time would issue a ruling one way or the other. THEN THE NUCLEAR OPTION HAPPENS when that ruling is challenged. If the person presiding at the time said "You're right, that's against the rules," then a member of the majority party would challenge that ruling... and they would win, because the majority has more votes. If the person presiding said "No, MajorityMember's motion is totally in order and MinorityMember can go and perform anatomically impossible acts," then someone in the minority would challenge that ruling, and they would lose because a minority is less than a majority. Either way, a precedent gets established that the Senate can use $PROCEDURAL_TOOL against dilatory tactics.

I live for shit like this. Not this exact shit because state legislatures not Senate, but still, I am a bad person.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [29 favorites]

/disappointed at lack of Prop 69.
posted by Artw at 8:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can get to the @pastormarkburns timeline, but the Clinton blackface tweet URL posted earlier here returned "Sorry, you're not authorized to view these Tweets" hours ago (and still does). Maybe the tweet was deleted?
posted by salix at 8:38 PM on August 29, 2016

I believe Prop 69 is "Ferengi are not responsible for the stupidity of other races."

Prop is short for property, right?
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

re vote hacking :
So I guess the solution is that we need to vote twice, and compare the results. Once in the voting booths, once after the fact, and pinkie swear that we say the same thing. And then compare the difference.

(I'm in TX, and every election I've voted in here has been the completely-unverifiable digital vote with no receipt, since 2006. The first time I went into a voting booth, with my mom in 1988-- I'll always remember the billet stylus that satisfyingly punched through the selection on a paper ballot. (this was in Ohio) The fact that it's not that goddamn simple is infuriating.)
posted by rp at 8:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

The tweet was deleted, the account was not. There are copies of the original tweet out there, though, and it's pretty gross.
posted by mochapickle at 8:40 PM on August 29, 2016

He deleted the tweet and apologized after defending it on MSNBC or CNN or something.

“I’m apologizing for the offensive picture,” Burns said. “But I’m not apologizing for the message that it was carrying … I still believe that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party do pander at the black people.”

posted by xyzzy at 8:40 PM on August 29, 2016

/disappointed at lack of Prop 69.

Mark one:
[ ] Yea
[ ] Nay
[ ] Niiiiice.
posted by ctmf at 8:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

I apparently pointed that out earlier, but apparently I didn't know the difference between the twitter account and the specific tweet. Apparently.
posted by yhbc at 8:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

take it to the supremes -> 4-4 deadlock -> constitutional crisis -> military coup -> war with russia

Christ, is this the longgame for not confirming Garland? I'm never sleeping again, thanks.
posted by corb at 8:41 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yeah, unfortunately, Bush v. Gore was decided 5-4, so a 4-4 deadlock would not be out of the question.
posted by xyzzy at 8:44 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

He deleted the tweet and apologized after defending it on MSNBC or CNN or something.

And then retweeted the fake Hillary Clinton in blackface photo. Class act, this guy.
posted by dumbland at 8:46 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

In San Francisco, making sense of the local ballot propositions (which are often as numerous as the state ones) is simple: Go through your voter guide, find anything with an argument or a rebuttal by Terence Faulkner or the San Francisco Libertarian Party, and then vote the opposite way.

I for one am a Terence Faulkner superfan. Combined with bourbon on the rocks he makes going through the voter guide bearable. It is hard, however, to decide whether his greatest hit is "VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION J - IT'S JIVE LOGIC!" or the time he referred to the Broderick-Terry duel in an argument against the creation of an Office of Citizen Complaints to investigate police shootings (because Lord knows he couldn't possibly have found any recent, relevant examples to draw on for THAT one).
posted by sunset in snow country at 8:53 PM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Democratic caucus has 25 Senate seats up for reelection in 2018, to the Republicans' 8. If they nuke the filibuster, payback could be swift.

But, there's the chance to cement progressive control of SCOTUS for a generation, which could limit the damage of future GOP majorities.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 8:54 PM on August 29, 2016

/disappointed at lack of Prop 69.

We had Prop 69 in 2004. It authorized... ahem, collection of DNA samples... from people arrested for certain crimes (whether convicted or not).

(Terrible proposition, but amusing name/content at least)
posted by thefoxgod at 8:58 PM on August 29, 2016

Go through your voter guide, find anything with an argument or a rebuttal by Terence Faulkner or the San Francisco Libertarian Party, and then vote the opposite way.

Is that your Tim Eyman?
posted by Artw at 9:10 PM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]

Josh Marshall again: We're getting the first advance word about what's going to be included in Trump's big immigration policy speech on Wednesday. And it sounds like he's going Full Jeb!, or at a minimum Total Marco. ... It's nonsense on its own terms. But it also means Trump has adopted wholesale the position he won the nomination by ridiculing as "weak". I'm skeptical that this new position even makes it to the Wednesday speech ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:15 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

There's still 18 hours, plenty of Internet Time to send out trial balloons.
posted by rhizome at 9:44 PM on August 29, 2016

Well I mean it's not like you have wait until you're at the ballot booth to decide, California even mails out sample ballots and the text of the propositions ahead of time.

The way I do it is to fill out my sample ballot ahead of time, bring it in to the voting booth, and simply copy the sample ballot. After a brief check to make sure the sample ballot matches the election ballot of course.

I am able to vote very quickly that way. Preparing to vote takes rather longer.
posted by Justinian at 9:47 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Please, there might be only one thing, politically, that will make my blood boil more than reading about the Donald's assholery, and that's reading about Tim Eyman's assholery (he lives in my town).
I'm having trouble not envisioning a black hole swallowing Everett tomorrow if the two of them touch.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:51 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm still sad about Internet Time.
posted by bongo_x at 10:05 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

Oh, speaking of Tim Eyman, in case you missed it, the WA Attorney General has been investigating him for potential violation of state campaign finance laws. Here's a press release from a few weeks ago.

Kind of hoping some state AG's office somewhere is able to & similarly looking into that knockoff Trump PAC scam linked earlier.
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 10:05 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

There’s only one way for us to win this

Who is "us"? That's in the post title. *boggles*

I don't follow U.S. presidential politics much (or at all), but Donald Trump seems unelectable. Are "we" sure that the major media outlets (with a VERY vested interest in a close race) aren't pulling "our" chains here?

The best choice is not to look. Ever. If "we" just stopped looking at Donald Trump last year, he would be gone. Every Democratic Party Member who clicks on a Donald Trump story is also partly to blame for this sad sack of shit presidential race.

Those of "us" who know (the betting oddsmakers) and whose fortunes depend on knowing have Clinton at a huge advantage. Clinton has it wrapped unless she has actually ever done anything illegal (or sexual) and it is exposed ... and then whomever the Dems pick to replace Clinton (Biden?) should win easily as well.

Don't waste your time on it (he says futilely).
posted by mrgrimm at 10:10 PM on August 29, 2016

Irony is dead: Trump says that "if QB Colin Kaepernick doesn't like America, he should try to find a better country."

Called it.
posted by msalt at 10:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

this comment has now ruined sundaes for me forever.

There is almost certainly sundae/sprinkle porn

I mean, we could google for it, but that would almost be like insulting the internet, because of course there is
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:13 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Tim Eyman has cost us so much taxpayer money on his bullshit initiatives...

Couldn't he just be found guilty of something felonious and sent away?
posted by Windopaene at 10:27 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

How many millions of taxpayer money have been wasted by the House on their multiple Benghazi investigations, plus all of their wrangling against Obamacare, etc.

They continually rail against funding basic government operations, then also saddle those operations with the burden of frivolous expenditures.

The cost of government would be a hell of a lot lower if Republicans weren't constantly interfering with running it well.
posted by yesster at 10:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

Are "we" sure that the major media outlets (with a VERY vested interest in a close race) aren't pulling "our" chains here?

This is the horseracery mentioned above. I think it's the entire system that is pulling our chains. Trump doesn't want to get specific, Hillary will be fine to match him in slow-rolling her details (though she's certainly still producing policy talk), Congress is all "sure I'll answer some hard-hitting questions from US Magazine while evading the need for a Supreme Court Justice," and the media is fine to record the tick-tock and throw in their hot takes while they figure out how to make money on the Internet.
posted by rhizome at 10:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Who is "us"? That's in the post title. *boggles*

It's a Hamilton reference. It's a riff for titles of election threads this season.

> I don't follow U.S. presidential politics much (or at all), but Donald Trump seems unelectable. Are "we" sure that the major media outlets (with a VERY vested interest in a close race) aren't pulling "our" chains here?

The best choice is not to look.

Over the decades, "we" have elected any number of racist/sexist/nationalist demagogues. I would love it if "ignore the trolls" actually worked when it comes to people like that, but when they are white, male, wealthy, and have power, pretending they don't exist is really not an option. Or would you have "us" also pretend that the (many many) people who support people like them also don't exist?

I don't know what the silver bullet is - or if there is one - but silence in response to the kind of rhetoric they produce ain't it.

Also, if your disclaimer is ignorance of the process and you then proceed to give "advice," maybe...refrain from both disclaiming and advice-giving in future.
posted by rtha at 10:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]

Whoever runs the PPP twitter feed is ruthless.

@DrJillStein: The killing of Harambe 3 months ago today reminds us to be a voice for the voiceless.
@ppppolls: Harambe has more support for President than you
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:40 PM on August 29, 2016 [57 favorites]

> There's still 18 hours, plenty of Internet Time to send out trial balloons.

So I had forgotten about Swatch Internet Time. And like at the time I definitely made a lot of fun of Swatch Internet Time. But now, looking at the description? It seems... it seems...

it seems like a good idea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:42 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Those of "us" who know (the betting oddsmakers) and whose fortunes depend on knowing have Clinton at a huge advantage.

The "oddsmakers" called it for "Remain," right? I think I'll just keep trying to get Clinton elected.

They continually rail against funding basic government operations, then also saddle those operations with the burden of frivolous expenditures.

Like how the Republicans tried to attach measures that would massively defund Obamacare and prevent related funding from going to Planned Parenthood clinics to the Zika bill? Then the Republicans gleefully turned around and said that the first American microcephaly baby picture would feature in every single anti-Democratic political ad because the Democrats don't care about Zika babies.
posted by xyzzy at 10:43 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Jill Stein invoking Harambe is too perfect on the heels of Trump and Dwyane Wade.

Hillary for Meme Queen
posted by rhizome at 10:47 PM on August 29, 2016

One of my (many, many) hobbyhorses is the idea that the use of computers should be strongly discouraged in anything connected to elections for any office that gives the officeholder real power. Every part of the process — registration, voting itself, tabulation — should be carried out on media big enough and clear enough to read with the naked eye. Once you start recording voting-related information as electronic charges on chips rather than as big, easily legible marks, you're opening up the possibility for all sorts of shenanigans.

I nearly agree, except I think that tabulation may actually be better computerized, and there are some good use-cases for electronic voting (e.g., voters with certain disabilities). My version of this hobby horse is that as much as possible, votes should be cast on human-readable media, but counted electronically. I think that humans counting ballots actually introduces more opportunities for shenanigans and even simple errors than a computer system. But if questions arise, humans should always be able to recount ballots manually, and audit the voting process for accuracy. (My view on this is strongly influenced by my experience as a scientist dealing with both human and computer systems for quantifying animal behavior, which is subject to similar problems.)

Punch cards and optical scan systems seem like pretty much the idea voting systems to me, and black-box touchscreen systems (which I have voted on for almost every election since I turned 18) are basically the worst system possible. Optical scan systems have the advantage that at least two or three generations of Americans have been basically trained in their proper use for twelve years of schooling, thanks to Scan-Tron multiple choice tests, and so most voters are immediately familiar with their use.

Ideally, human audits of a randomized subset of precincts would be performed as a matter of course, as a two-factor method for confirming that the computerized systems are working properly and haven't been tampered with. If there are shenanigans due to hacked voting machines, these should be able to catch it and trigger a larger-scale manual recount. Also, any computer systems used for voting should be required to be open source code, and each system should be validated by the FEC (not Diebold or any other private company) as running the intended version of the software. (Actually I think this should be true for almost all software used by government.)
posted by biogeo at 11:17 PM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

A few comments deleted. Cut out the super dumb Harambe/bro slapfight, and seriously, take a break if this is how you think you should be participating here.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:20 PM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

In completely unrelated news, the new Wow expansion goes live tonight and both new faction leaders are more qualified than Trump, even though they're fictional rpg characters.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:26 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump visits Everett, WA tomorrow. Everett is about 30 mins north of Seattle, if traffic is decent. It's also easily accessible via Sound Transit public transit, from downtown Seattle.

They're expecting a packed house, as "Thousands of free tickets have been distributed for the event. In fact, far more are being given out than can fit in the arena. By Sunday, about 13,000 had been reportedly distributed. The maximum capacity inside the arena for Tuesday night's rally will be about 10,000, the arena's general manager said."

Well, *that* sounds like a recipe for success!

(I'm going to Everett to watch the shenanigans. There's also an anti-Trump rally/protest/march scheduled in Everett as well. DumpTheTrump: United Against Hate.)
posted by spinifex23 at 11:28 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Protesters are already there: Please, PLZ don't vote Trump PLZ.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

For Trump's Everett visit there's also a Clinton campaign-associated protest event which is likely to have a few speeches by local Dems then some kind of protest aspect.
posted by R343L at 11:34 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

By Sunday, about 13,000 had been reportedly distributed. The maximum capacity inside the arena for Tuesday night's rally will be about 10,000, the arena's general manager said.

Well sure; gotta keep up the "people being turned away at the doors" narrative.
posted by tzikeh at 11:36 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

If you go to Everett, I cannot recommend enough El Paraiso Mexican Grill. I used to live in Everett, and they have a decent sized Latinx community. This is some of the best Mexican food I've had in the entire Puget Sound region. It's at 2801 Colby Ave, and within walking distance to all the Trumpian goings on tomorrow.

It also may not be affected by street closures, like some of the closer places.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:39 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

... about 13,000 [free tickets] had been reportedly distributed. The maximum capacity inside the arena for Tuesday night's rally will be about 10,000, the arena's general manager said."

Well, *that* sounds like a recipe for success!

I think if you give out 10k+ free tickets, you should expect that not every single one of them will be used. Is it irresponsible to plan for 25% no-shows? It seems like it could be reasonable.
posted by aubilenon at 12:00 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

I tried to read that Mother Jones article (and I'm 200 comments behind, so pardon me if I'm repeating anyone) but I had to stop because I was getting so upset.

The problem with this whole "the government is letting people cut in line" idea is that it's NOT TRUE. Fundamentally untrue. Disability isn't being given to masses of able-bodied people. It's really hard to get. I should know, I'm freaking disabled and can't get approved for benefits, and I can SHOW you a picture of my disability. I also was a case worker for hundreds of severely mentally ill clients and I know how hard it is for them to get benefits. (If you'd like to get approved the same way my clients usually did, enjoy having multiple involuntary hospital stays at your friendly local state psychiatric hospital in a year.)

I don't know where this idea really comes from, because on the ground that's just not what things look like. I had someone complain to me that their cousin gets disability because they have allergies. FUCKING REALLY? YOU BELIEVE THAT?

But ok, let's just accept that the SSA approves people for disability based on nothing but their say-so. So someone who has never worked gets SSI, you know how much that is a month? About $700. $700 a month to live on. Who of these people in trailer parks with their teeth rotting out getting $700 a month are cutting in front of ANYONE? They are BARELY SUBSISTING. They are at the back of the fucking line. Fuck they're not even IN line. Meanwhile welders making $100K a year are complaining about these people.

It's not that there aren't real economic problems in the country. There are. Corporations have spent decades doing everything they possibly can to screw their workers over. But this idea that somehow WELFARE is to blame for the economy's state is just....the biggest con job of all time. This is an idea that has been SOLD to people and they've bought it.

I think I need to take a break from these threads and do something cheerful like shoot a bunch of monsters in a video game.
posted by threeturtles at 12:11 AM on August 30, 2016 [124 favorites]

Join me in Azeroth, threeturtles. The Legion looks terrifying.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:27 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Hello MetaFilter! I just got back from a day spent phonebanking. I'm an Australian, briefly passing through LA on my way to my brother's wedding in Mexico. Thanks to these threads, I realised there isn't anything I'd rather do during my One Day In America than make some calls for Hillary, meet some nice folks, and contribute (however microscopically) to defeating the racist pile of wet Cheetos.

Some of the people I called were slightly bemused that an Australian was volunteering for the campaign, but all was forgiven as soon as they realised how fun it is to hear an Australian call Donald Trump a fuckwit.

P.S. I've been a lurker here since 2007, and haven't commented since 2011. A lot of people have said that these threads help keep them sane, but I don't know that I can justifiably say the same thing, given that this isn't my country and the saner thing would probably involve being less obsessed with this election in general. But we cannot choose our obsessions, only find comrades with which to share them. Thanks to everyone who contributes to these threads; you are all delights.
posted by Rumpled at 12:28 AM on August 30, 2016 [207 favorites]

Rick Perry is joining Dancing with the Stars so I guess from now on the GOP standard for mounting a future presidential run is starring in a reality TV show. Can't wait to see Chris Christie and Marco Rubio sprinting through Jakarta on The Amazing Race.
posted by PenDevil at 12:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

Today is the day when I felt bad about myself because an Australian dude in the country for one day has done more to defeat Donald Trump than I have.
posted by Justinian at 1:31 AM on August 30, 2016 [49 favorites]

They have more experience dealing with venomous creatures.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:33 AM on August 30, 2016 [95 favorites]

But we cannot choose our obsessions, only find comrades with which to share them.

one of us, one of us
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:37 AM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

re: crowd control and tickets - I guess I was just surprised that venues were allowed to give out ticket amounts that were higher than the occupancy of the building.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:46 AM on August 30, 2016

angry turned-away supporters outside the venue
+ protestors from liberal city near the rally
= bloody media spectacle!
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 2:28 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

That creates its own headache for the people involved because Prop 60 includes a rebuttable presumption that any film without visible condoms was in fact not using condoms and is therefore illegal. Anybody who uses that VFX would be subject to lawsuits where they'd have to prove they really did use condoms and VFX, over and over -- it's an invitation to nuisance suits.

Surely they can just keep the original footage for audit purposes. They could even add it to the DVDs (as a bonus feature or camera angle), just so that they can laugh at the people who phone in the complaints.
posted by acb at 3:52 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Justinian, if you're in the US, the Clinton website makes it super-duper easy to find volunteer opportunities--even from home. Not too late!
posted by Sublimity at 4:22 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, Justinian, do it!

I've been feeling increasingly burnt out doing the volunteer thing, partly because after a week or two of showing up every day I've been hit with requests to show up virtually every day of the week. I left after two hours on Sunday and got a "Leaving already?" from somebody as I went, which... yeep, probably oughtta look into self–preservation a lil bit.

What I'm saying is, you should let us cheer you on into volunteering, so I can feel better about myself.
posted by rorgy at 4:25 AM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

The NYTimes has a piece about the candidates and their debate prep, there's not much new until the article ends with this pithy setup and punchline:

Around the Clinton campaign, the question of whom to cast as Mr. Trump has become something of a running parlor game. Mrs. Clinton’s allies have floated several options: Representative Joseph Crowley of New York, who is from Queens, where Mr. Trump grew up; James Carville, Mr. Clinton’s chief strategist in 1992, who has a gift for lacerating banter; or Mark Cuban, another billionaire businessman. All three are viewed as unafraid to say some humiliating things to Mrs. Clinton’s face, as Mr. Trump may.

At least a few old Clinton hands have suggested enlisting professional entertainers, like Jon Stewart or Alec Baldwin.

Mr. Trump’s search so far seems to be less exhaustive: He said his daughter Ivanka could end up playing Mrs. Clinton.

“Wouldn’t she be great at that?” Mr. Trump asked. “Maybe.”

So one candidate is going through a deliberate process with multiple qualified candidates, and the other candidate is seeking approval for nepotism.
posted by peeedro at 4:57 AM on August 30, 2016 [25 favorites]

I don't know where this idea really comes from, because on the ground that's just not what things look like. I had someone complain to me that their cousin gets disability because they have allergies. FUCKING REALLY? YOU BELIEVE THAT?

I don't know that it matters where it comes from--there are stupid, noxious ideas all over the place--just that when it comes into contact with a certain kind of person it finds a nurturing, welcoming place to take root and grow.

And that isn't a static quality; like it's not necessarily some deep, unchanging truth about that person that makes them feel , deep down, that ideas like that are true (although I suppose it can be). It's that at that moment it speaks to a way they feel, and a way they *want* the world to be, right now, in order to explain...well, something. The uncharitable interpretation is that they like these ideas because they explain what they perceive to be their failures and disappointments in a way that not only relieves them of any personal responsibility, but provides them with a convenient villain to blame -- "those people."

I know we've had discussions about people reacting to changing social norms with bewilderment and then anger, or disconnection -- things are so different now, and so much of their world view has become problematic in ways they don't understand, that they just shut down. But the thing is...that's not really the problem. I discover ways I've been an unintentional asshole with some frequency (thankfully decreasing), and my reaction when that happens isn't to throw up my hands and be like well I don't understand they must be wrong that I've been an asshole to them. It's to go, "oh shit, I have to work on that.

The problem is an unwillingness to face change, to admit mistakes, and to take responsibility for those mistakes and one's ability to adapt to change.

There's always going to be some number of people like that. I mean, what I just described is a lot of work. It's emotional labor. I view it as the ongoing labor you have to do to be a good and responsible person, but I also think it can be pretty emotional labor intensive, depending on where you start from, and people have limited reserves.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:19 AM on August 30, 2016 [29 favorites]

There's always going to be some number of people like that. I mean, what I just described is a lot of work.

This is something I wanted to comment on in the previous thread - doing this work is difficult, and I would argue that it's especially difficult for cis men because masculinity is all about not admitting that you are wrong.

Honestly, it took me quite a lot of internet reading to learn the emotional trick where you talk yourself down from being all "I'm sympathetic but this time [their!!!] complaints have gone too far!!!" And I observe that for different values of "they", this mindset is just as common on the left as on the right - any time a group marginlized in relation to you speaks up for itself, it can be very uncomfortable. I'm not saying I've got it down now, either, just that I can generally recognize and dial back the feeling.

This is why when someone says "I was wrong about [issue] and didn't realize it until [it affected someone I cared about]" I differ from many mefites - I think that's very good actually. For every parent who belted up and joined PFLAG or became an AIDS activist, for instance, there were probably ten who just disowned their kids and/or left them to die. For every person who changes their mind on abortion when their daughter needs one, there's lots who think "well, it's all right for my daughter because she's a good girl, but not for those awful slutty other women". Something affecting you personally doesn't mean that you always take it to heart or change.

This is particularly significant, I think, when the person is generous in their interpretation. Not just "I guess I can accept homosexuality, sort of, because I love my son" but "I was wrong, gay is good, proud parent of...." etc.

I'm not saying that someone who changes their mind deserves a trophy and their name in lights, but I also don't think that dismissing them reflects the choices they generally make.

Perhaps I am biased because it affects me personally - I am actually pretty proud of my dad, for instance, because he has found it in himself to become much more supportive of trans people after a family friend came out (and spontaneously dissed TERFs once I explained what they were) and also, after years of being casually against gay marriage, has changed his mind.

It's a metafilter truisim that people don't really change much, you can't change people, etc. So I actually think that when people do produce a real and measurable change in attitude and behavior, that is significant, no matter what prompts it.
posted by Frowner at 5:33 AM on August 30, 2016 [115 favorites]

So I actually think that when people do produce a real and measurable change in attitude and behavior, that is significant, no matter what prompts it.

People are fond of saying "garbage in, garbage out" without really absorbing the fact that the reverse is also true.
posted by Mooski at 5:52 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clinton should mock-debate half a dozen different Trumps. Let them do everything they can think of to rattle her.
posted by EarBucket at 5:54 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Clinton should mock-debate half a dozen different Trumps.

My brain just imagined a slew of funhouse mirror trumps. One short and squat, one large and lanky, one just a floating sentient toupee that each embody the six aspects of his personality.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:02 AM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm almost hesitant to post this because the interesting part isn't "but Colin Powell did it too!" but rather it's pretty telling how the idea that Clinton is guilty of something shapes the media's coverage both in the topics they choose to pursue to the context their stories are presented in: Colin Powell’s foundation and Hillary Clinton’s are treated very differently by the media.
posted by peeedro at 6:09 AM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

...doing this work is difficult, and I would argue that it's especially difficult for cis men because masculinity is all about not admitting that you are wrong.

This is even more true when you realize many of these people do not read at all. I mean they are capable of it, but don't read anything much beyond phone texts or facebook quips. They don't have a clue how to engage with alternative forms of information since no one they know of does that and it would require a whole new set of learning skills they've never developed. (This isn't that far off from some of the different conspiracy beliefs in minority communities in some regards, when there is a gulf in information processing.)

These kinds of people believe strange things because they are hearing it from people they have a trusting relationship of sorts with, people they know first hand basically. All the rest is noise since they have no good way to tell truth from fiction to a large extent since they haven't developed critical skills required to do so.

That doesn't make it all right, but it does require some level of understanding and engagement to combat should we wish for a better society.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:14 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

> How is CNN the last to know about this?

Me: About what?
*scrolls up*
Me: Russian hackers??
*scrolls up*
Me: Bowser?!
*scrolls up*
Me: Ah, here it is: Cory Lewand...smh.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:14 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

@GoAngelo: Trump's opening speaker calls on Sanders to convert to Christianity [real]
posted by zombieflanders at 6:18 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, the rise of ISIS didn't happen in a vacuum. Now, these are genuinely, insanely awful people, but that's a selling point for them. Because they position themselves as being at war with something worse -- the west -- and when you're at war with the best, it helps to present yourself as being the worst thing ever. The Nazis didn't shy away from imagery that made them terrifying, even though it made them look like baddies. And we're over here telling Muslims that they don't have a place here, which doesn't give them much choice.

posted by maxsparber

this is from a ways upthread, but i'm kind of at a loss here. what exactly does this say? muslims are forced to join isis because trump says offensive things?
posted by p3on at 6:24 AM on August 30, 2016

After all the horribly racist alt-right bull shit in the last few weeks from Trump. Let's pause and look at this photo of an old white lady getting help from some young black men as she tries to catch Pokemon in Memphis, TN.

[to self] Don't read the comments. Don't read the comments. Dammit, I read the comments.

Can't wait to see Chris Christie and Marco Rubio sprinting through Jakarta on The Amazing Race.

Thank you. Now I can't get the image of Christie sprinting - in the tropics - out of my head.
posted by zakur at 6:24 AM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thank you for that fantastic comment, Frowner. You've articulated so well something I've been struggling for years: A way to push back against... I guess I'll call it excessive self-righteousness on the progressive side of the fence. No, Uncle Herbert [1] does not “deserve a cookie” for, say, realizing that his decades-long unexamined racist assumptions were wrong. But Uncle Herbert very much does not deserve being viciously scorned for not having come to the realization earlier, nor still being lumped together with the thousands who have not come to the same realization and would actively double down on their bigotry if that realization became a possibility for them.

(Of course there's the question of Uncle Herbert's actions during the time of his previous beliefs and how much active harm they caused, and what, if anything, he's doing to make amends; and nothing is ever that straightforward; but at the end of the day Uncle Herbert isn't one of the Racist Sexist Uncles on Facebook Brigade [2] anymore, and that should make a difference.)

[1] With apologies to Actual Uncle Herberts and nephews/nieces of Actual Uncle Herberts.
[2] We'd come up with an acronym for this last thread, but I can't for the life of me remember it, or even what to search for...
posted by seyirci at 6:25 AM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

I guess I was just surprised that venues were allowed to give out ticket amounts that were higher than the occupancy of the building.

This is fairly standard for big political rallies. I can't find a news article to back me up, but when Obama came to Portland two years ago to campaign for the (failed gubernatorial) Mike Michaud campaign, there was a lot of grousing because people had tickets but ended up outside anyhow.
posted by anastasiav at 6:26 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

The "ticketing" for free events is at best just a way for organizers to get an approximate head-count/know in advance that they have woefully overestimated interest in the event, and more realistically just a way to drive clicks and engagement in the event. It's completely meaningless.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:32 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wouldn't "ticketing" also be an easy-peasy way for the campaign to collect people's contact info for fund raising or get out the vote drives?
posted by peeedro at 6:38 AM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

This is particularly significant, I think, when the person is generous in their interpretation. Not just "I guess I can accept homosexuality, sort of, because I love my son" but "I was wrong, gay is good, proud parent of...." etc

I think you may have missed the point that this is a qualitatively different thing from the "the only good abortion is my abortion" mindset because it requires that openness and willingness to do work and admit to having been wrong.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:45 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

WSJ: Donald Trump’s New Ad Reflects Uncertainty in Tax Plan

Besides deep tax cuts, what’s in Donald Trump’s tax plan? Mr. Trump hasn’t filled in all the details, and his own campaign ads don’t seem to know.

The Republican candidate released a 30-second spot on Monday that touts his proposed tax cuts and their economic benefits. But the footnotes in the ad cite Mr. Trump’s 2015 tax proposal, which he revised and left incomplete this month, along with a House Republican tax plan that he hasn’t fully embraced.

This is what happens when you don't bother with solid policy-- you wing it and then you have to keep winging it, changing whatever, whenever you like. I'm not sure why they bothered spending $10 million to run an ad that touts an economic plan that is so blurry but I guess they have nothing else positive to say. I wonder if this ad was test driven? Maybe it is based on "feelings" versus "facts."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:49 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump's opening speaker calls on Sanders to convert to Christianity

even if he did, he'd probably just convert back after the election
posted by ryanrs at 6:51 AM on August 30, 2016 [61 favorites]

Trump came up here to Burlington during the primaries. Presumably to try to stir up sh*t with Bernie supporters, because there is no other way Vermont could be considered in any way relevant. Our local venue (where I volunteer as an usher) is the Flynn Theater and only has a bit over 1,400 seats. Tickets were available and free.

Predictably, the first I heard of it was all my liberal friends 'snatching' up tickets to deny Trump a crowd. As noted above, the campaign didn't limit tickets. My understanding is that they electronically issued about 7,000 tickets. They did turn away obvious protesters/Bernie supporters, too-hippy or goth looking folks at the door, but mostly the Trump supporters stayed on their side of the street in line and pretty much all got inside and the protestors (under 1,000?) stayed on the other side of the street and felt very good about themselves for sending whatever message they had clearly sent. (There were a lot of political views on display on the protest-Trump side, most of which I mostly support.)

So, in the end, of the tickets issued, only about 1/3 even showed up at the venue. Again, this is Vermont and probably an extreme case of this, but I'd expect pretty par for the course.
posted by meinvt at 6:52 AM on August 30, 2016

Today there are Primaries in Florida and Arizona. John McCain, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Marco Rubio are fending off challengers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:54 AM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

No, Uncle Herbert [1] does not “deserve a cookie” for, say, realizing that his decades-long unexamined racist assumptions were wrong.

I mean, so much of how one responds to Uncle Herbert (and almost all of us will be Uncle Herberts about something) is about manners and appropriateness. It would be bad manners and inappropriate to expect that Uncle Herbert gets centered and treated better than actual marginalized people, or that marginalized people need to be extra nice to him, or that the Story of Uncle Herbert should eclipse actual stories of the people in question, or that he gets a pass on anything rude or wrong that he says. It would be rude and wrong to expect that people who were hurt by Uncle Herbert's previous wrongness should just forget about it and be best buddies like nothing happened.

But people who actually know Uncle Herbert personally are allowed to feel good about how he's changed, and IMO people shouldn't respond to the mere fact of "Uncle Herbert used to have a bad idea but he changed" with "well, fuck him, does he want a cookie". I think UH has to actually want a cookie before people get mad at him for wanting one, for one thing.

For another - look, when I'm talking to my dad about trans stuff, I positively reinforce. I am all about, "gee, it's so great that you've been supportive to Clelia, some of her friends have been such jerks" and "not everyone understands why TERFs are so wrong, unlike you!". I don't expect other trans people to dole out the delicious cookies of approval, but because he's my dad and I know him, I will provide cookies.

For a third: my dad isn't doing nothing but the bare minimum - every day when he's supportive, he's bucking the trend in his conservative town. I live around a bunch of groovy gender radicals of various kinds - it's easy for me to say "yes, I support sex workers" and "asexuality is a thing, actually" and so on. My dad lives in Trumpland.

The difficulty of changing your views depends a lot on who you are and where you live.

I guess I'd say that how we treat people who change their minds depends on the setting and the social relationships, basically.
posted by Frowner at 6:55 AM on August 30, 2016 [88 favorites]

It occurs to me that it must be much harder work now to reexamine and reject your previous beliefs as wrong because of social media. Like, I have had some dumbass beliefs in my time. And the people that I expressed those beliefs to I could probably count on one hand, there is no permanent record of it, and I don't have any contact with those people any more anyway (I unfacebook). But if you've spent 5 years on Facebook shitposting about gay people to your friends list of 100 people, it's a lot harder to be like, "Whoops actually guys I was totally wrong about that one, my bad." No one wants to be wrong in front of that many people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:56 AM on August 30, 2016 [31 favorites]

Chris Cousins: LePage on his 2nd term: "I'm not going say I'm going to finish it; I'm not going to say I am not going to finish it."

Well allrighty then. That clears things up.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:00 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

What will be interesting is what configuration Xfinity Arena is in this evening. See, you can set the stage up in back and use all 10,000 seats (including 2,000 on the floor). Or... you can set it up roughly at center ice and have around 6,000 seats.

Now, given Trump's appeal in the northwest part of the state, I think they can mostly fill the 10,000 seats, but if you really wanted to make it full, you'd use the smaller config and turn a few thousand away. The Everett press would notice, but no one else will.
posted by dw at 7:01 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Maybe LePage thinks he might not finish his 2nd term because D. Trump has said

"I’ll tell you what. I don’t know that he would want that but he is a very talented guy, he is also a great person, a tremendous person and if he were available I would certainly find something for Paul because he’s done a great job up here, he’s not only popular, he’s done an unbelievable job so I would certainly say that he would be a candidate."

So maybe LePage dreams of being Secretary of the Interior?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:06 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe it is based on "feelings" versus "facts."

This pretty much summarizes his entire campaign, right?

Anyone that's still ardently backing him at this point has convinced themselves that their feelings are basically as good as facts, so it doesn't matter if Trump switches his immigration plan 4 times in one week. As long as they feel like he's their guy that's enough to satisfy whatever political decision-making machinery they have left.

The wanton disregard for facts from his camp (and the media's failure to excoriate them for it) is rage-inducing.
posted by strange chain at 7:07 AM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

So maybe LePage dreams of being Secretary of the Interior?

We're talking about Paul LePage here. He probably dreams of being a fire truck.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:23 AM on August 30, 2016 [32 favorites]

WaPo: ‘Trump Revealed’: The reporting archive

The Post is making public today a sizable portion of the raw reporting used in the development of “Trump Revealed,” a biography of the Republican presidential nominee published August 23 by Scribner. Drawn from the work of more than two dozen Post journalists, the archive contains 397 documents, comprising thousands of pages of interview transcripts, court filings, financial reports, immigration records and other material. Interviews conducted off the record were removed, as was other material The Post did not have the right to publish. The archive is searchable and navigable in a number of ways. It is meant as a resource for other journalists and a trove to explore for our many readers fascinated by original documents.

The 397 documents can be filtered in a number of different ways such as "Fred Trump" and "Aberdeen Golf Course."

I am just skimming the "State of New Jersey Casino Control Commission 4/15/91 to 4/18/91. Report on the Financial Position of Donald J. Trump" On the last page his total assets are listed at $3.6 Billion and his total liabilities are listed at $3.4 Billion. The conclusion that the report reaches is that Trump has not provided clear and convincing evidence of his financial stability which he needs to do in order to renew his Taj Mahal casino license.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:24 AM on August 30, 2016 [42 favorites]

Today there are Primaries in Florida and Arizona. John McCain, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Marco Rubio are fending off challengers.

I hope McCain wins and then having fended off the challenge, he turns against Trump, but I'm not counting on it.

It would be such good popcorn to see Rubio lose his Senate seat.

(Indifferent to DWS. The focus should be shaving off GOP house seats, but primary challenges are good to keep long serving congresscritters on their toes)
posted by dis_integration at 7:24 AM on August 30, 2016

Mock debates - they should definitely get Melissa McCarthy to play Trump. Oh yes, she could go there. And well beyond.

*said in admiration*
posted by glasseyes at 7:24 AM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

Rick Perry is joining Dancing with the Stars so I guess from now on the GOP standard for mounting a future presidential run is starring in a reality TV show. Can't wait to see Chris Christie and Marco Rubio sprinting through Jakarta on The Amazing Race.

Join Chris Christie this week on "Taverns, Truckstops, and Tollbooths!"
posted by flarbuse at 7:27 AM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

Trump African-American Numbers Abysmal: Poll | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC

African Americans hold bubonic plague in better esteem. [real]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:29 AM on August 30, 2016 [21 favorites]

From yesterday morning's Politics in the News on NPR (now with a transcript):

GOLDBERG: ... I don't think [Donnie is] a devotee of this sort of hardcore racist, alt-right crowd. I think he just thinks a lot of his supporters are, and so he wants to play footsie with them, which is almost as bad.

Way to tap-dance around calling him a racist for pandering to racists. He's not flirting with hardcore racists, he's blowing their dogwhistles.

[And I'll call myself on it: PHRASING!]

The coverage of Hillary:

MONTAGNE: Well, let's turn to Hillary Clinton and - what else? - emails. Last week, a judge ordered the State Department to release more of them. And if there is indeed smoke but no fire, Cokie, as Donna Brazile just suggested, what will the effect be?

ROBERTS: I think just more of the same unless there's some, you know, really outrageous thing in there, which I suspect we would have seen by now, since the FBI has gone through these emails and said there's no basis for a charge. But it just adds to this sense of her as somebody who's untrustworthy. And those numbers keep going up, not down. And, you know, it is this troubling sense of both paranoia about the media and her opposition and entitlement. And people don't like that.

UGH! Listen, NPR: you're just as much a member of the media as other outlets. So by covering - what else? - Hillary's email non-scandal, you're feeding into the feelings of distrust. I get it, she really doesn't have any story the same level of Donny's flip-flop-flub on immigration, so you have to latch onto something, and this piece is specifically news commentary, which limits what you can say. Then why not do some more unique reporting in the rest of your program?

Instead, we hear more from Donnie's loyalists, including a nice seeming lady who supports him but only listens "to half of what Trump says." To which I say, if you only listen to half of what he says, why not find someone who doesn't disgust you 50% of the time.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:44 AM on August 30, 2016 [20 favorites]

Trump's opening speaker calls on Sanders to convert to Christianity

Yeah, that happened during the primaries.

Mark Burns: "Listen, Bernie got to get saved, he got to meet Jesus. I don't know, he got to have a coming of Jesus meeting."

Ironically, Bernie Sanders' life and career exemplifies Jesus' teachings far more than Trump's.

Or apparently Pastor Burns.
posted by zarq at 7:46 AM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

If they nuke the filibuster, payback could be swift.

Good thing the electorate, generally speaking, could give a shit about procedure.
posted by PMdixon at 7:53 AM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Of all the goofball black preachers they could have trotted out as obvious suckers but also sheisters themselves, I guess I didn't expect one this goofy.
posted by cashman at 7:55 AM on August 30, 2016

Of all the goofball black preachers they could have trotted out as obvious suckers but also sheisters themselves, I guess I didn't expect one this goofy.

The ones who are good at it know that most of their audience is made up of Democrats who are never going to vote for a Republican. To coin a phrase, Democrats buy shoes too.
posted by Etrigan at 8:00 AM on August 30, 2016

If they nuke the filibuster, payback could be swift.

Good thing the electorate, generally speaking, could give a shit about procedure.
posted by PMdixon at 7:53 AM on August 30 [+] [!]

SERIOUSLY. After the last gajillion years of Congress not doing their jobs *on purpose*, you could do away with the pretension to deliberation in the Senate entirely, get a bunch of shit done, and then just point to that record. "Democrats do the job."

No one outside of the political junkie sphere gives a flying fuck about Senate tradition.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:00 AM on August 30, 2016 [22 favorites]

No one outside of the political junkie sphere gives a flying fuck about Senate tradition.

You don't mind if I put this on a t-shirt, do you?
posted by Mooski at 8:09 AM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

you wing it and then you have to keep winging it, changing whatever, whenever you like

...and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
posted by kirkaracha at 8:12 AM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

The ones who are good at it know that most of their audience is made up of Democrats who are never going to vote for a Republican. To coin a phrase, Democrats buy shoes too.

I don't understand what you're saying here, but I don't understand why you drafted Kwame either.

Unrelated, I just learned that there's a senior advisor for the Trump campaign named Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Okay seriously, who's making this stuff up? This is all some kind of Truman show thing we're living through.
posted by cashman at 8:13 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

there's a senior advisor for the Trump campaign named Sarah Huckabee Sanders

That's just lazy writing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2016 [47 favorites]

There are treatments for bubonic plague.
posted by srboisvert at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders is the daughter of former-AZ governor Mike Huckabee.
posted by zarq at 8:17 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

African Americans hold bubonic plague in better esteem. [real]

Bubonic plague outbreaks often raised the wages for surviving workers in affected European countries. Trump has no such record of success.
posted by jaduncan at 8:18 AM on August 30, 2016 [30 favorites]

Sarah worked on Huckabee's campaign, and then switched to Trump's.
posted by zarq at 8:19 AM on August 30, 2016

Switching gears again, does anyone know when the moderator(s) for the debates will be announced?
posted by cashman at 8:21 AM on August 30, 2016

We're talking about Paul LePage here. He probably dreams of being a fire truck.

Because I live in Maine, we've all been discussing that radio interview all morning. I want to be clear up front that I think LePage is a terrible, terrible Governor and I'm embarrassed to have him representing my state.

That being said, Paul LePage is a land of contrasts. He survived an absolutely horrific, abusive childhood, and was a homeless teen. He had trouble getting into college because his first language was French and his English was poor until he was an adult.

I honestly, sincerely believe that LePage is a man who wants to do the right thing, but his childhood left him without a framework for healthy ways to deal with conflict, so we end up with this. His formative experience was as one of eighteen (yes really) children growing up in extreme poverty and abuse. In those kinds of situations, either the kids work together or its every kid for himself, and by all accounts this was an "every kid for himself" situation. He's stuck inside the cycle of abuse, and continues to perpetuate it because he just doesn't have the emotional tools to break out. He is the embodiment of the Republican "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" story, and (despite the fact that he alone of his surviving siblings managed to get out and build something of a middle class life for himself) can't understand why others can't do the same.

I'm not saying that he's fit to be Governor. He's an embarrassment, he doesn't have the right professional tools to do the job, and I pray he resigns, but there is more to his story than just "ignorant racist is ignorant." I have a tremendous amount of compassion for him and the very real pain I suspect drives pretty much his every action.

What really struck me in that radio interview is how sincerely contrite he sounds -- something we have not heard from him previously. There has been a longstanding rumor that he, like his father, drinks heavily (I have never met him, so I have no idea if this is truth or slander), and the public behavior you see does fit that pattern. With any luck, this will be a "rock bottom" moment for him, and will inspire him to -- somehow -- find within himself the courage to admit that he needs help, and the strength to go through the process of getting that help.
posted by anastasiav at 8:24 AM on August 30, 2016 [131 favorites]

Trump in everett: I live near everett, and I got out of town yesterday for a couple of weeks, purely coincidentally. This atheist is rethinking the existence of a benevolent diety.
posted by maxwelton at 8:25 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

anastasiav - thank you so much for that backstory. I did not know that and I know what kind of pain that kind of childhood can create. Thank you for creating a little space for compassion in his story. I'll be honest, I didn't have a shred of it previously.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:32 AM on August 30, 2016 [45 favorites]

anastasiav - thank you so much for that backstory. I did not know that [...]

Seconding that.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:33 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Thank you cjelli!
posted by cashman at 8:37 AM on August 30, 2016

Nthing Sophie1. Thank you, anastasiav. I never thought I'd feel any compassion for Paul LePage.
posted by zarq at 8:39 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

there is more to his story than just "ignorant racist is ignorant." I have a tremendous amount of compassion for him and the very real pain I suspect drives pretty much his every action.

I tend to find almost all cases of belligerent racism are built on childhood traumas; I don't think he's unique in this way.
posted by Miko at 8:54 AM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

I never thought I'd feel any compassion for Paul LePage.

From the "Even a stopped clock" files: Pretty much every progressive in Maine has extensive praise for LePage's work on domestic violence issues. Last year, he gave a program-changing $50,000 gift to a wonderful Teen Center that works hard to combat the very same issues that he faced as a child, and then spent hours with the kids there, talking with them personally and candidly about his own story and their lives, and letting them know that their future is theirs for the taking.

So, when you're wondering how 48% of Mainers could vote for him, this is why. He gets some things so right and then so many other things so very, very, VERY wrong.

PS: That same Teen Center ended up canceling his upcoming controversial post-voicemail town meeting because they couldn't withstand the impact of the media circus that would come with it, and they're taking some blow back for it. If you're inclined to break the cycle, throw them a few bucks. They'll put it to good use.
posted by anastasiav at 8:57 AM on August 30, 2016 [39 favorites]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders is the daughter of former-AZ governor Mike Huckabee.

Er (not to nitpick, but) that's former-AR governor Mike Huckabee.

Imagining Huckabee as gov of Arizona rather than Arkansas was just making my brain completely explode--can't exactly explain why. Both AZ and AR definitely have their share of nuts, but they are each a very distinct form of nut.

Huckabee is very definitely in the mold of an AR-nut, and just as definitely not AZ. Probably at least 90% of this is Southern U.S. vs Western U.S. thing, and Huckabee is very definitely Southern.
posted by flug at 9:02 AM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

You can listen to the LePage radio interview here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:03 AM on August 30, 2016

Who of these people in trailer parks with their teeth rotting out getting $700 a month are cutting in front of ANYONE? They are BARELY SUBSISTING.

That taps into the "secret welfare system" narrative that Atrios among others has discussed, epitomised by Craig T. Nelson's "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anyone help me out? No."

I found the MoJo article interesting because of how it focused on the difference between the person at the heart of the narrative -- a Tea Party true believer -- and the people attracted to Trump who essentially want a more expansive welfare state that is defined by excluding minorities and rewarding white people for their whiteness. It's a kind of travesty reparations argument -- "we'll take demographic change, but at a price" -- but at its core is a subconscious understanding of how America has always had generous forms of white-people welfare.
posted by holgate at 9:12 AM on August 30, 2016

Trump’s strategy has shifted to sabotaging Clinton’s eventual presidency

This is why Ryan/McConnell et al will never walk away, even a complete Trump wipeout works towards their goal for the next 2-4 years, which continues to be complete obstruction if not outright destruction of a Clinton presidency and functioning federal government.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:13 AM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Can someone please explain to me this obsession with press conferences?

I thought press conferences were to discuss news breaking events like, someone resigning, a plane goes missing, a bombing of a government place etc... And by that logic, as far as I can tell the reason Trump has so many is because his campaign is a dumpster fire with shit happening all the time that he has to explain. Hillary, not so much because she's just you know, running a campaign.

Is the media expecting her to have a press conference to just take random questions from the audience? Why is it a bad thing Trump has had 17 and she hasn't had one? And do people (that aren't Trump fans) actually care about this?
posted by like_neon at 9:19 AM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm not saying that he's fit to be Governor. He's an embarrassment, he doesn't have the right professional tools to do the job, and I pray he resigns, but there is more to his story than just "ignorant racist is ignorant." I have a tremendous amount of compassion for him and the very real pain I suspect drives pretty much his every action.

Without wanting to be too combative about this, the most I'll give you in this direction is that it would be cruel and churlish to make fun of him if he were just some guy on his porch or were the produce manager at your local supermarket. But he isn't. It would be cruel and churlish to make fun of him if his past had led him into a series of bad decisions that were trapping him in a dead-end life whose indignities fed another cycle of bitterness, anger, and self-defeat. But that's not where he is.

So, when you're wondering how 48% of Mainers could vote for him, this is why.

I really doubt that there are very many people who reluctantly support him because domestic violence is such an important issue for them. As in, I would be surprised if there were more than 100 adults in Maine for whom that were true. Just like very few people reluctantly voted for Rob Ford because children's physical fitness was so important to them and very few people will reluctantly vote for Trump because... shit, I don't even know what his "positive thing in spite of himself" thing is, but surely there's something.

Instead, I would put money that 48% of Mainers voted for him because they like that he's a violent, combative ignoramus whose antics are sort of entertaining if it's not your ox getting gored, just like Ford and Trump and Arpaio and so many others. Something seems to have gone wrong with conservatism more or less globally. This is a sad and terrible thing, and I wish we had reasonable and serious-minded conservatives back as an honorable opponent.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:19 AM on August 30, 2016 [21 favorites]

Can someone please explain to me this obsession with press conferences?

If she does press conferences and reporters keep asking her bullshit questions about why nobody likes her, maybe eventually one of those reporters will get to be the person who made Hillary Clinton cry on camera.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:20 AM on August 30, 2016 [39 favorites]

Welcome back, Rumpled!
posted by languagehat at 9:22 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Can someone please explain to me this obsession with press conferences?

Press conferences are the only time when presidential beat reporters get to be on TV. They like to be on TV.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:25 AM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

Surrogate Confirms Donald Trump ‘Will Build A Wall’ | MSNBC

Manages to slip in a blackface reference.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:26 AM on August 30, 2016

Can someone please explain to me this obsession with press conferences?

Keepin It 1600 covered this last week. Their view is that press conferences are more about the journalist asking the question than the question itself or the answer the candidate gives. It's an opportunity for individual journos to get on camera and be seen asking a question. So, journalists like them because it gives them a rare opportunity to be seen doing their job and looking like a badass confronting a powerful person with a deep question. But really as far as actually getting real information out of candidates, the one-on-one face-to-face interview with a single journalist is far, far superior.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

Or what T.D. Strange said.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:27 AM on August 30, 2016

Instead, I would put money that 48% of Mainers voted for him because they like that he's a violent, combative ignoramus whose antics are sort of entertaining

Well, I live here, and vote here, and volunteer in politics here, and I'd say it was a mix. Are some of his supporters Tea Party "burn it all down" racists? Sure. But a lot of the others are people who just see a reflection of their own lives in him and the things he says. I mean, I'm SURE there are people who voted for LePage in 2010 because Mike Michaud is gay and they "didn't want to condone that" but that isn't the whole story by a longshot.

In the article I linked above, LePage talks about how his own experiences in having his siblings think of him as "the Bank of America" have affected his view of what public assistance should look like:

“In generational poverty there is a mind-set that everyone wants to get what everyone else has as quick as possible. … So what they do, the minute they get a few bucks, they go buy a smartphone or they go buy something of status, and that stereo was an item of status,” LePage said. “If you help without tough love, they’re going to take advantage. And it’s my family. I’m not trying to be a ding-a-ling and be tough on people. I’m trying to do it the right way, because if you don’t do it the right way, and I have 50 years’ experience, it won’t work.”

In my experience, this resonates with a lot of rural Mainers who have lived this exact experience. They are the one kid in the family who made it out of poverty, and now are living with a constant pressure to provide for everyone who didn't make it out. That resonates. His entire story resonates with people living in rural, generational poverty. And so they voted for him, because they see their own stories reflected in him -- both in his successes and in his gaffes. You see them in the comments section even today "Well, he's trying" they say. Because that's what they see.

I think he's dead wrong, and they are dead wrong, but I understand how we got here.
posted by anastasiav at 9:39 AM on August 30, 2016 [30 favorites]

as far as I can tell the reason Trump has so many is because his campaign is a dumpster fire with shit happening all the time that he has to explain.

He has so many because he's a grotesque circus act / insult comic.

Basic test for journos who want a Clinton press conference: what would your question be? And no, you're not tipping off the candidate by letting us know: if it's that magnificent, then it'll survive a sneak preview.
posted by holgate at 9:41 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

James West: Former Models for Donald Trump's Agency Say They Violated Immigration Rules and Worked Illegally

Each of the three former Trump models said she arrived in New York with dreams of making it big in one of the world's most competitive fashion markets. But without work visas, they lived in constant fear of getting caught. "I was pretty on edge most of the time I was there," Anna said of the three months in 2009 she spent in New York working for Trump's agency.

"I was there illegally," she said. "A sitting duck."

According to three immigration lawyers consulted by Mother Jones, even unpaid employment is against the law for foreign nationals who do not have a work visa. "If the US company is benefiting from that person, that's work," explained Anastasia Tonello, global head of the US immigration team at Laura Devine Attorneys in New York. These rules for immigrants are in place to "protect them from being exploited," she said. "That US company shouldn't be making money off you."

Two of the former Trump models said Trump's agency encouraged them to deceive customs officials about why they were visiting the United States and told them to lie on customs forms about where they intended to live. Anna said she received a specific instruction from a Trump agency representative: "If they ask you any questions, you're just here for meetings."

posted by zombieflanders at 9:41 AM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

More or less by definition, the proportion of people who are the one in their extended family that made it out of poverty can only be a small minority.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I enjoy examples of the Clinton campaign's ruthless competence, such as that evinced in the NYT debate prep article that was linked above:

They contacted Tony Schwartz, the “Art of the Deal” co-author, to give them advice about Mr. Trump this summer — even though Mr. Schwartz’s 18-month immersion in Mr. Trump’s life and homes ended in the mid-1980s. But Clinton advisers said Mr. Schwartz and other writers who had observed Mr. Trump up close, as well as unnamed psychology experts they had spoken to, were critical to understanding how to get under Mr. Trump’s skin.

These Clinton advisers agree with Mr. Trump’s belief that the debate will not be remembered as pitting a policy expert against a Washington outsider. Instead, her campaign is preparing ways for her to unnerve Mr. Trump and provoke him to rant and rave.

The Clinton camp believes that Mr. Trump is most insecure about his intelligence, his net worth and his image as a successful businessman, and those are the areas they are working with Mrs. Clinton to target. [emphasis added]

posted by palindromic at 9:44 AM on August 30, 2016 [52 favorites]

Each of the three former Trump models said she arrived in New York with dreams of making it big in one of the world's most competitive fashion markets. But without work visas, they lived in constant fear of getting caught.

Annnnnd we're halfway to human trafficking, if not there already.
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on August 30, 2016 [22 favorites]

No, Uncle Herbert [1] does not “deserve a cookie” for, say, realizing that his decades-long unexamined racist assumptions were wrong.

For me it comes down to the fact that, in some cases, being right and being effective are mutually exclusive. Uncle Herbert doesn't deserve a cookie but if giving him one will cement that change in his heart while scorn for his past misdeeds or other, current, offensive views will walk that change back, you better believe that I'll give out those cookies and encourage continued development.

I don't really even care if the change is internal. If all I accomplish by giving Uncle Herbert his cookie is that he no longer says or supports racist things, even if he still thinks them, give him the damn cookie. Less racism in the world is always good and it should always be encouraged.
posted by VTX at 9:47 AM on August 30, 2016 [39 favorites]

Everybody deserves a cookie.
posted by maxsparber at 9:47 AM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

"made it out" is a relative term, though. Maybe they have a steady job and their siblings don't. Maybe they own a mobile home and their parents still rent. Again, my point is this: there is a lot more to the story than "terrible racist Mainers elect ignorant racist Governor."

People like LePage don't get elected in a vacuum. If we're more open about the reasons people might agree with LePage, then we'll go a lot farther in defeating people like him in the future.
posted by anastasiav at 9:48 AM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

Everyone needs a hug.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:50 AM on August 30, 2016 [14 favorites]

Everybody deserves a cookie.

Guaranteed minimum cookies
posted by beerperson at 9:51 AM on August 30, 2016 [54 favorites]

These Clinton advisers agree with Mr. Trump’s belief that the debate will not be remembered as pitting a policy expert against a Washington outsider. Instead, her campaign is preparing ways for her to unnerve Mr. Trump and provoke him to rant and rave.

yessssssssss

WRECK HIM.
posted by yasaman at 9:56 AM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

cookies from each according to their ability, cookies to each according to their need.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:58 AM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

>> Everybody deserves a cookie.
> Guaranteed minimum cookies.
Universal Basic Cookie Jar.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:59 AM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

For me it comes down to the fact that, in some cases, being right and being effective are mutually exclusive.

This sounds pretty closely related to the advice Tim Kaine attributed to his mom: if you want to be right, be a pessimist, if you want to do right, be an optimist.
posted by wildblueyonder at 9:59 AM on August 30, 2016 [31 favorites]

Again, my point is this: there is a lot more to the story than "terrible racist Mainers elect ignorant racist Governor."

Okay, but I don't know who you're arguing against because nobody in this thread has said that.

"made it out" is a relative term, though.

Sure, but the only way you can be the one in your extended family that did anything is that the other people in your extended family didn't. Which necessarily implies that you cannot be part of more than a small minority, because the number of people in an extended family is far more than 1.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:01 AM on August 30, 2016

A cookie in every jar and a cupcake in every lunchbox.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:01 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

I don't know who you're arguing against because nobody in this thread has said that.

Ok, that's fair.

Honestly, I'm arguing against all the people I've seen over the last few days who judge the entire state by this, and seem to assume that because we have a super high percentage of white people living here we're somehow all racist trolls. I'm getting sick of that.
posted by anastasiav at 10:04 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Can someone please explain to me this obsession with press conferences?

I thought press conferences were to discuss news breaking events like, someone resigning, a plane goes missing, a bombing of a government place etc...

Etc. includes seeing an interesting butterfly, eating a very good sandwich, or being disappointed that it is 2:00 already, at least if you're former mayor Pamela Winchell.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

This WaPo article provides the perspective of the creator of the cartoon portraying Sec. Clinton in blackface. About all I can say is that it's a viewpoint. He sounds as though he's rationalizing at this point.
posted by Silverstone at 10:07 AM on August 30, 2016

In other news: Meg Whitman, a Republican who had backed Chris Christie for president during the primaries, will take to the hustings in Denver today to campaign for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. (Fortune, 8/30/2016)

Whitman will meet with Colorado business leaders for breakfast at the Crawford Hotel to discuss Clinton’s jobs plan, which includes investing in technology companies and helping small businesses succeed. (Denver Post, 8/29/2016)

Whitman ran unsuccessfully for governor of California in 2010 and was a finance co-chairwoman for Mitt Romney’s presidential run in 2012. Like Romney, she has been one of Trump’s chief critics within his own party, likening him to a fascist who lacks the temperament to be president.

Clinton rolled out her jobs plan during with a speech in Denver on Aug. 3.

“Her vision for an America that is stronger together and her plans to create jobs and help businesses succeed comes as Trump continues to avoid discussing his long record of bankruptcies, failed businesses, and unpaid contractors,” the Clinton campaign stated Monday.

posted by filthy light thief at 10:09 AM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

Annnnnd we're halfway to human trafficking, if not there already.

As I've said in previous threads wrt Melania's visa status, it's more of a reflection on the institutional shittiness of the modelling industry. Trump Model Management was already one of the top applicants for model H-1Bs (that models ended up covered by that visa is a weird legislative anomaly) and though a civil suit was recently dismissed, it provides an insight into how H-1B models can end up in situations that are the functional equivalent of human trafficking.
posted by holgate at 10:13 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Clinton camp believes that Mr. Trump is most insecure about his intelligence, his net worth and his image as a successful businessman, and those are the areas they are working with Mrs. Clinton to target.

Oh no! The NYT shouldn't have printed this! This lays out Clinton's strategy in detail! If Trump or anyone from his campaign reads.........oh, never mind.
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:14 AM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

Clinton 2016: cookies for all, hugs for some
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:14 AM on August 30, 2016

“I haven’t been shot. I got an education,” said Donte, a 17-year-old high school student. “Or — I have an education. Just in case he hears this.”

Meta-code-switching!
posted by dersins at 10:15 AM on August 30, 2016 [88 favorites]

Ugh, why do Trump's chances keep going up on 538? I can't wait till this nightmare of an election season is over! But of course the shit that Trump has ridden/unleashed/exposed will still be around...
posted by overglow at 10:19 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

whitman knows also about jobs, she's eliminated thousands of them
posted by entropicamericana at 10:19 AM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

I can't wait till this nightmare of an election season is over!

Stay alive ‘til this horror show is past! We’re gonna fly a lot of flags half-mast.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:28 AM on August 30, 2016 [19 favorites]

Raise a glass!
posted by anastasiav at 10:29 AM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

The Clinton camp believes that Mr. Trump is most insecure about his intelligence, his net worth and his image as a successful businessman,

I think I know why.
posted by bongo_x at 10:29 AM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

Because of his freakishly tiny hands?
posted by dersins at 10:34 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Or is it because he's an idiot, a fraud and a failure?
posted by dersins at 10:36 AM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

So for all your Clinton Foundation concern trolls it is time to point out the absurd double standard in play.
-George W. Bush raised millions for his personal foundation during his Presidency
-Colin Powell had his spouse run his foundation during his term as Secretary of State.
-George Bush Sr had the Points of Light Foundation during his Presidency
-Reagan raised millions for his Presidential Library and immediately after his Presidency gave speeches for millions.
-The history of Presidential Charities goes back at least as far as FDR. In fact FDR's March of Dimes was so highly regarded that we put his face on the Dime.

All these charities took money from big donors, yet none of them resulted in the level of accusations we've seen against the Clintons.
posted by humanfont at 10:37 AM on August 30, 2016 [133 favorites]

More or less by definition, the proportion of people who are the one in their extended family that made it out of poverty can only be a small minority.

Well, see, that tiny minority escaped from New York City where LePage says all the drug dealers are, and then they all settled in Maine where they now form a majority of voters. It's just math.
posted by JackFlash at 10:38 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

None of those people was a woman.
posted by OmieWise at 10:38 AM on August 30, 2016 [27 favorites]

Can we give up on NPR now? They can't or won't do the right thing.
posted by petebest at 10:40 AM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

Guys that discussion about LaPage was fascinating, and then Hillary's debate prep trolling, and then kids in Philadelphia burning Trump, and now I'm gonna run out of goddamn favorites again, aren't I?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

None of those people was a woman.

IOKIYAM
posted by dersins at 10:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

So for all your Clinton Foundation concern trolls it is time to point out the absurd double standard in play.
-George W. Bush raised millions for his personal foundation during his Presidency
-Colin Powell had his spouse run his foundation during his term as Secretary of State.
-George Bush Sr had the Points of Light Foundation during his Presidency
-Reagan raised millions for his Presidential Library and immediately after his Presidency gave speeches for millions.
-The history of Presidential Charities goes back at least as far as FDR. In fact FDR's March of Dimes was so highly regarded that we put his face on the Dime.

My mom is furious about this.

I ordered a set of Hillary buttons on Jul 30 for her birthday (which was yesterday) and they still haven't come. :(

She also knows what the alt-right is (she's 83) and says there a lot of them in Arizona. She also thinks McCain will win a second term (she hates him).
posted by maggiemaggie at 10:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump will fire KellyAnne, blame push back he is getting now on her. He will make Katrina Pierson campaign chief.

Oh holy shit, that would definitely prove that his campaign has not hit rock bottom yet. Pierson would be worse than three kids in a trenchcoat.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:50 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also from the NYT debate prep article:

“I know who I am, and it got me here,” Mr. Trump said, boasting of success in his 11 primary debate appearances and in capturing the Republican nomination over veteran politicians and polished debaters. “I don’t want to present a false front. I mean, it’s possible we’ll do a mock debate, but I don’t see a real need.”

First, the Clinton campaign should imply that she's afraid of such a powerful and invincible debater. 11-and-0! He can't be beat!

Second, he did well in the primary debates because he could play off the crowd and he was one of 4-10 people on the stage. In a presidential debate it'll be one-on-one and the crowd will be told to be quiet during the debate.

Trump has no experience in one-on-one debates--ever?--and Clinton does, including some tough debates with Sanders. She handled Sanders' interruptions fine, she handled the 11-hour latest Benghazi hearing fine; she'll handle Trump.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:53 AM on August 30, 2016 [19 favorites]

Honestly, I'm arguing against all the people I've seen over the last few days who judge the entire state by this, and seem to assume that because we have a super high percentage of white people living here we're somehow all racist trolls.

Fair 'nuff. FWIW I don't think anglos in Maine are very different from anglos elsewhere in the US.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:53 AM on August 30, 2016

> Oh holy shit, that would definitely prove that his campaign has not hit rock bottom yet. Pierson would be worse than three kids in a trenchcoat.

Look I know Vincent - many people are talking about Vincent, and the wonderful work he has done with my business. My last manager was tremendous, but Vincent is at least three times better and look - nobody, and I'm serious, I mean nobody is better at relationships than Vincent. Really good, really incredible.
posted by Tevin at 10:55 AM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

"Clinton should mock-debate half a dozen different Trumps."

- My brain just imagined a slew of funhouse mirror trumps. One short and squat, one large and lanky, one just a floating sentient toupee that each embody the six aspects of his personality.
posted by C'est la D.C.

So it's like a sequel to Pixar's Inside Out?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Second, he did well in the primary debates because he could play off the crowd and he was one of 4-10 people on the stage. In a presidential debate it'll be one-on-one and the crowd will be told to be quiet during the debate

Eh, he'll try and do the same thing. Interaction with her or the moderator will be minimal, he'll just being doing his usual show. Nobody will notice he's not answering the questions, though if the moderator brings it up you'll be hearing about bias for weeks. Media will commend his strong performance and pay no attention to it being absolute nonsense.
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

“Her vision for an America that is stronger together and her plans to create jobs and help businesses succeed comes as Trump continues to avoid discussing his long record of bankruptcies, failed businesses, and unpaid contractors,” the Clinton campaign stated Monday.

Ahahaha I fucking love this. This is what I expect out of a Hillary Clinton presidency: ruthlessly parsing out endorsements to Republicans looking to flee the sinking ship in exchange for their taking her side and doing what she wants.

It's a vicious cycle—or a virtuous one, depending on how you look at it. The more Republicans side with her, the more effective she becomes—and the more her opponents look like they're on the wrong side of a losing proposition. Meanwhile, the ones who jump for her approval will be burdened with their public and prominent support of progressive and decidedly un–Republican policies, which means they'll have a vested interest in the country suddenly deciding they like those policies, and in deciding that politicians who work towards them ought to keep getting elected back in office.

This is how you play the game: reach across the aisle, yank out the opposing side's support, and make all the people you yank dependable allies. Mitch McConnell can oppose her all he'd like (and I'm even a bit skeptical that he'll continue that strategy once his party crumbles); it won't work and he can go fuck himself. When your party's fucking up as terribly as they are now, deadlock only serves to fuck you over more.

Riskier forecast: who wants to bet that Hillary pushes initiatives to loudly aid Trump's broadest demographic of supporters, in ways that take effect well before, oh, autumn of 2019? Early enough that she can use their benefits to fuck with the next wave of primary challengers? I wouldn't fully stake the future on it, but if she has it in her to break deadlock and pressure her opponents into bipartisan support, that seems like the smartest move going forward—and there's no way Hillary hasn't been thinking about the 2020 election since at least 2008.
posted by rorgy at 10:58 AM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

boasting of success in his 11 primary debate appearances

Out of 12. Remember that he skipped one because he's afraid of Megyn Kelly.
posted by Etrigan at 11:00 AM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

I sincerely hope that either the moderator or Hillary asks Trump to repeat an answer because it is incomprehensible and they can't parse what he is trying to say. Because I have the problem a lot when I'm listening to his word-curry.
posted by Tevin at 11:00 AM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

Consider this: Two-thirds of Hillary Clinton’s supporters think the next generation will be in better shape than we are today, or least the same, according to Pew Research. The reverse is true for Trump’s camp. Sixty-eight percent of his supporters think the next generation will be worse off. What’s more, the vast majority of Trump voters say life is worse today for people like them than it was 50 years ago. Only two percent —two!— think life is better now and that their children will also see improvement. [...] Rothwell’s work suggests it’s the communities that have seen the least societal change that are most likely to support the New York billionaire—by and large, they have fewer immigrants, fewer lost jobs, fewer impacts from global trade. People who have lost something aren’t voting for Trump, at least not uniformly. It’s the people who think they’re about to lose something.

Remember how Obama's optimistic "Hope" campaign was relentlessly mocked from the Right. That appeal may not work at all on a portion of the electorate because of purely psychosocial factors.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:01 AM on August 30, 2016 [32 favorites]

I mean not to make her sound like she's guiding us towards the Golden Path or anything but it WOULD explain why she covered her body in sandworms last week and readied that Tim Kaine axolotl tank post–convention
posted by rorgy at 11:02 AM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

@ppppolls: 31% of Trump supporters want a wall built along the Atlantic Ocean to keep Muslims out from the Middle East:

From the link:

It's widely known that Trump voters support building a wall on the border with Mexico to keep undocumented immigrants out of the country. We find that 31% of them also support building a wall along the Atlantic Ocean to keep Muslims from entering the country from the Middle East. 52% are opposed to that idea.

posted by Existential Dread at 11:03 AM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

"Why don't you just put the whole world in a bottle, ~~Superman~~Trump?"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:04 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

From the NYT article:
But Clinton advisers said ...
These Clinton advisers agree ...
The Clinton camp believes ...

This illustrates perfectly the worthlessness of today's journalism. This is all unsourced speculation -- he said, she said garbage.

Who are these unnamed advisors? Do they really know what they are talking about or are they outsiders just talking rumors? There is no way to know because they aren't named. There is no way for readers to evaluate these claims. There is no way to determine if people are just blowing smoke.

There is no excuse for the NYT using anonymous sources for this type of article. Get people on the record or ignore them. These aren't national secrets. These aren't whistle blowers at risk of prosecution. This is just useless rumor mongering and the NYT shouldn't be doing it.

And "the Clinton camp believes". What kind of garbage is that? How can a camp have beliefs? Even if there are certain individuals speaking those words, there is no way to know their true beliefs. You can only report what they say. You don't know what is in their heads. They may be lying. They may be deliberately misdirecting. They may be talking up their game. But you don't know their beliefs and shouldn't be reporting them as such. And certainly not anonymously.
posted by JackFlash at 11:05 AM on August 30, 2016 [35 favorites]

In completely unrelated news, the new Wow expansion goes live tonight and both new faction leaders are more qualified than Trump, even though they're fictional rpg characters.

Sylvanas is an undead atrocity against life itself with a history of murdering enemy civilians as a military recruiting strategy and she STILL is probably less dangerous to humanity than Trump.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:06 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

I hate to push on the tiny hands thing, but I happened to be at Madame Toussaud's in Hollywood over the weekend (yeah...) and they had a wall of hand impressions, and what do you know, Trump's was on there. I'm giving it to you first hand, so to speak: it's totally true. I had about a knuckle on him on each finger and I don't have unusually large hands. I seriously regret not taking a picture.
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:07 AM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

I customized the HuffPost Pollster general election chart to show composite polls since July 1. Clinton's had a slight decline from a high of 47.8% to her current 46.8%. Trump's had a slight increase from a low of 39.4% to his current 40.3%.

Only look at composite polls and stop freaking out about individual polls and 538's whackadoodle forecast.

If you are still experiencing anxiety, consult the NYT Upshot's simulator of possible outcomes. Clinton has 1,011 ways to win; Trump has 10 ways to win. Click Democratic on either Florida, Ohio, or Pennsylvania. She wins the election if she wins any one of those three. Switch all of them to Trump and she still has 115 ways to win and he has 10.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:07 AM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yeah, and 538's polls plus (most conservative) hasn't really moved from 26.0% chance of a Trump win. The Nowcast is useless and should be ignored.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:12 AM on August 30, 2016

but I happened to be at Madame Toussaud's in Hollywood over the weekend (yeah...) and they had a wall of hand impressions, and what do you know, Trump's was on there.

My husband works across the street. I might have to make him go, for research...
posted by Sophie1 at 11:13 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

For great good!
posted by filthy light thief at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can someone please explain to me this obsession with press conferences?

In the minds of many reporters, only they are the tough-minded, experienced interviewers who can press the candidate to admit or at least confront uncomfortable truths. And a candidate who does not willingly subject themselves to that is showing weakness, fear or must have something to cover up.

It's an outdated idea, since candidates have long since figured how to dance out of danger's way and reporters aren't nearly as skilled or aggressive as they think they are. As others have mentioned, it's also tied up with the ego of the questioner, appearing on TV and possibly showing off for their colleagues.

But it could happen and sometimes still does, though more often in non-political situations (notably sports). I'm biased because I am a sportswriter and press conference questioner, but I do think my colleagues fit this concept more than political writers as a rule.
posted by msalt at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

The handprint thing was covered in this delightful article.
posted by snofoam at 11:20 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

I hope Secretary Clinton calls the Trumpsterfire a "millionaire" and a "game show host" to his face in the debates.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:21 AM on August 30, 2016 [26 favorites]

candidates have long since figured how to dance out of danger's way

or you know, just duck that shoe.
posted by zutalors! at 11:23 AM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

The Clinton camp believes that Mr. Trump is most insecure about his intelligence, his net worth and his image as a successful businessman

Today in "Signs that your candidate is fundamentally unsuited to be President of the United States," we bring you:

#367. There is genuine debate as to which of his many insecurities he is most sensitive about (and thus leaves him most vulnerable to needling).
posted by dersins at 11:25 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Trump has no experience in one-on-one debates--ever?--and Clinton does, including some tough debates with Sanders. She handled Sanders' interruptions fine, she handled the 11-hour latest Benghazi hearing fine; she'll handle Trump.

I think she should be super nice. Like, at the start of their second debate say

"I think it's wonderful to have this opportunity to discuss the issues as respectful opponents. You know, after the last debate, Donald and I shook hands and it was a wonderful moment. You know what though? I think my hand was a little larger. (crowd reacts)
No, no, shame on you. Don't be like that. I don't believe for one second that my opponent would let a little thing like that bother him. That would be childish. No, no."
posted by msalt at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

Once Again, For the Media, “Working Class” Means White Men

The New York Times decided to run a long profile of workers in Youngstown to get at the appeal of Donald Trump. It’s the typical article of angry workers who see Trump as a way to lash out and angry workers who see Trump for what he is. But there’s one really big problem here. [...]

Once again, for the media, working class means white guy. Not only is this a huge blind spot that reinforces the idea of “real voters” as working class white men, but it also completely ignores Youngstown. That city is 47 percent white and 45 percent African-Americans. Are black people in Youngstown not working class? I think we know the answer to this question.

posted by tonycpsu at 11:28 AM on August 30, 2016 [57 favorites]

This is how you protect voting machines from Russian hackers
posted by ymgve at 11:31 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Riskier forecast: who wants to bet that Hillary pushes initiatives to loudly aid Trump's broadest demographic of supporters, in ways that take effect well before, oh, autumn of 2019?

I don't think that would be a good idea. Trump's supporters emphatically don't want aid from the government, or at least don't want to admit that they want aid from the government. Meanwhile, progressives and young people are still having a really difficult time trusting Hillary, and with her low favorables, she needs the Democratic base to turn out in 2018 and 2020. If she spends her energy and influence pandering to angry white people instead of pursuing the progressive goals of the Democratic platform, I think she will be trading votes she needs for votes she has no chance of getting anyway.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:32 AM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

humanfont, do you happen to have a single source for the Clinton Foundation "double standard" issue? I can think of a few people I would like to show those facts to, but I'd rather not link them to here, and would love to see whatever other contextual material may be around. Is there somewhere you found that collected? Thanks.
posted by Miko at 11:33 AM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

there's plenty of progressive goals whose benefits will extend to angry white people
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:34 AM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Trump's supporters emphatically don't want aid from the government, or at least don't want to admit that they want aid from the government.

I think that's been shown to be an incorrect assumption. They don't want anyone else getting aid from the government. They're more than happy to take it themselves. The shame is in getting the same aid that "those people" get. If there was White Guy Aid only for sooper speshul hardworking but down on their luck white dudes, they'd be all over it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:37 AM on August 30, 2016 [29 favorites]

No thay ain't 'causer ain't no truck-drivin'-Jesus in it.

Mmm hmm.
posted by petebest at 11:37 AM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't think that would be a good idea. Trump's supporters emphatically don't want aid from the government, or at least don't want to admit that they want aid from the government.

I think that's inaccurate- it's pretty easy to get right-wingers to be okay with government aid as long as you a) don't phrase it explicitly as a cash transfer and b) don't let black/Latin@ people have any.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:38 AM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

get your government hands off my medicare
posted by farlukar at 11:41 AM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

In a presidential debate it'll be one-on-one and the crowd will be told to be quiet during the debate.

If the audience does indeed stay quiet, that will definitely throw him off his game a bit. A lot of the crazy shit he says comes from responding to the crowd. The thing where he said Obama "literally founded ISIS" - if you watch the clip, he kinda throws it out there, obviously an off-the-cuff piece of hyperbolic speaking. But then the crowd reacts and it's like "oh, they liked that?" - so he repeats it. And again. And you can see the feedback loop and how his voice tone changed with each repetition until he's not using the "this is metaphoric speaking" tone anymore but "this is a factual statement" tone.

Without crowd feedback he could start flailing and tossing out any random thing in his head, unsure of which things are "sticking."
posted by dnash at 11:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

Once again, for the media, working class means white guy. Not only is this a huge blind spot that reinforces the idea of “real voters” as working class white men

Even worse, it reinforces the idea that white men do all the hard work while black folks just sit around sponging off the government.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:43 AM on August 30, 2016 [20 favorites]

get your government hands off my medicare

That's one of the big ones, yeah, but also guess how many people get a tax break for their mortgage and think they aren't using government aid?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:44 AM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

FTdelightfulA:

The bronze model of Trump’s hand is located near the exit of Madame Tussaud’s, opposite a penny-pressing machine. It is displayed next to a picture of a stern-looking Trump. As visitors flowed out of the wax museum only a few noticed the exhibit.

“Oh, look it’s this asshole,” said Maribel Ocampo, a 39-year-old New York City resident.

posted by wenestvedt at 11:44 AM on August 30, 2016 [27 favorites]

If Cliinton's hands are anywhere close in size they should take a picture of her with her hand over his handprint.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:47 AM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

Miko, Vox put out a detailed piece on the double standard.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:49 AM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

Riskier forecast: who wants to bet that Hillary pushes initiatives to loudly aid Trump's broadest demographic of supporters, in ways that take effect well before, oh, autumn of 2019? Early enough that she can use their benefits to fuck with the next wave of primary challengers?

I wouldn't count on this being too effective. Obamacare, and the Medicaid expansion in particular, is hugely helpful for this demographic, and they hate it and Obama with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.
posted by Aizkolari at 11:55 AM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

So for all your Clinton Foundation concern trolls it is time to point out the absurd double standard in play.

I'm sad for personal reasons about the attacks on the Clinton Foundation, because I know people who work or have worked for, this program or that under their umbrella - mostly Clinton Health Access Initiative folks. I had thought I might work with them at some point, as they have had a presence in every country where I have done research/public health work since 2010. Their office was next to ours on the grounds of a public hospital in rural Malawi, and the workers there seemed well-informed and interested in learning more about whichever particular health issue each was focused on.

I certainly understand arguments that the Clintons should have been prepared for this line of attack and shifted leadership of the foundation away from the family and this and that. I do think that even if they had done so, the attacks would have just become how stepping away was a sign of their corruption, or that the new leadership board is just a front for the Clintons, or...

The Clinton Foundation seems to be a good non-profit that is genuinely working to make the world a better place, and I can imagine that it would be hard to pre-emptively stop doing it just because some people will find wrong in literally anything they do. It would be even more difficult to make that decision if one was confident that she had genuinely done nothing unethical, let alone illegal, as is obviously the case in the non-stories about (the lack of) donor access to HRC as Secretary of State.
posted by palindromic at 12:03 PM on August 30, 2016 [19 favorites]

538's whackadoodle forecast.

Amen. I do not understand how their forecast (polls only) can use data to show that Clinton has well over 270 electoral votes, and then assign her a 80% chance of winning. I can't figure the reasoning out at all.
posted by OmieWise at 12:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

80%.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you are still experiencing anxiety, consult the NYT Upshot's simulator of possible outcomes.

The electoral map is still somewhere between 2008 and 2012.

Nate Silver recently noted the difference between a close election and a volatile one: 2012 was close (national polling more or less tied throughout) but the state polling consistently reflected the final result. A lot of additional volatility in 2016 comes from third-party candidates and the degree to which supporters may or may not "come home" in November, but on a state-by-state level, not much has changed even as the national numbers have tightened a little.

Still, it's August.
posted by holgate at 12:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Deleted a few comments. Yeah, for the sake of non-mouseover-enabled people, please label your links.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:14 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Amen. I do not understand how their forecast (polls only) can use data to show that Clinton has well over 270 electoral votes, and then assign her a 20% chance of winning

It's a probabilistic model. They run a theoretical election thousands of time within the confidence intervals for each state. Some state's confidence intervals tip over into red territory, so there are some model runs where Trump wins that state. So basically, given all those polls, weighted as 538 explains in detail, Trump wins in 20% of the model runs.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:15 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

80%.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:11 PM on August 30 [+] [!]

Fixed, thank you.

Nate Silver recently noted the difference between a close election and a volatile one: 2012 was close (national polling more or less tied throughout) but the state polling consistently reflected the final result. A lot of additional volatility in 2016 comes from third-party candidates and the degree to which supporters may or may not "come home" in November

I know there is some room to disagree with the choices analysts make, but Sam Wang just wrote about why he thinks this is not a year with high volatility. And I have to say that from a lay perspective, just looking at the RCP data, the polls are pretty consistent and haven't moved much at all, either nationally or at the state level.
posted by OmieWise at 12:17 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

How about a reassuring second opinion from Sam Wang, the Avis of election forecasters? ("We're #2 so we don't pundit.")

His Princeton Election Consortium currently gives Clinton a 92% chance of winning via the random drift method, 95% via Bayesian.
posted by msalt at 12:17 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

The Clinton Foundation seems to be a good non-profit that is genuinely working to make the world a better place, and I can imagine that it would be hard to pre-emptively stop doing it just because some people will find wrong in literally anything they do. It would be even more difficult to make that decision if one was confident that she had genuinely done nothing unethical, let alone illegal, as is obviously the case in the non-stories about (the lack of) donor access to HRC as Secretary of State.

There is actually a semi-legitimate appearance of corruption at The Clinton Foundation. This isn't because it's corrupt - anything but. It's because the whole of Washington is on Pay for Play (the DCCC says four hours a day fundraising, the RNCC thirty hours a week for Congresscritters) and Hillary Clinton basically did everything short of putting up a sign saying "If you want to try and bribe me put the money here." And then almost certainly made sure she didn't know who had actually donated.
posted by Francis at 12:18 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Do any of the other foundations (Powell's et. al.) provide the degree of transparency that the Clintons' does?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:18 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do any of the other foundations (Powell's et. al.) provide the degree of transparency that the Clintons' does?

Nope.
posted by Francis at 12:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

2016 has a way of making the most far-out, savage satires seem like they were actually just fortune telling.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

I do not understand how their forecast (polls only) can use data to show that Clinton has well over 270 electoral votes

Well, right now she has 0 electoral votes. Nobody has any electoral votes until after the polls close in November, which is still a depressingly long time away.
posted by Roommate at 12:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

I do not understand how their forecast (polls only) can use data to show that Clinton has well over 270 electoral votes, and then assign her a 20% chance of winning. I can't figure the reasoning out at all.

Because the polls show probabilities, not certainties (okay, except for DC). That's what the margin of error means: the latest Ipsos poll shows that Clinton will get 61% in California, but what that really is saying is that there is a 95% chance that she'll get somewhere between 58% and 64% (or whatever the margin of error is). That other 5% is because it's possible that Ipsos managed to talk to 518 people who aren't actually representative of all Californians.

So if you add up all the 5% chances that each of the various polls is wildly off (or rather, the slightly-less-than-2.5% chance that each of the various polls is wildly off in Clinton's favor), then there's still a 20% chance that a lot of them are off and Trump actually has more people who are going to end up voting for him in enough states that he'll get 270 electoral votes.

It's more complicated than that, based on individual poll's historical accuracy and some other home-brewed factors that 538 et al plug into their own algorithms, but it all pretty much comes down to "These polls are informed guesses, not actual vote counts."
posted by Etrigan at 12:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

It's a probabilistic model. They run a theoretical election thousands of time within the confidence intervals for each state. Some state's confidence intervals tip over into red territory, so there are some model runs where Trump wins that state. So basically, given all those polls, weighted as 538 explains in detail, Trump wins in 20% of the model runs.

Yes, thanks, that's an important way to make sure the description is accurate. I guess I am taking issue with the probabilities used. The chance for winning is very narrow for Trump, in part because the ways to win are narrow. If you look at PEC, which I understand uses different methodology, Clinton is above 90% just on random drift, let alone a bayesian model. Things skew the opposite in 538's model (polls +). It seems to me, again, untrained and just looking at the raw data, like 538's map does not very well describe the territory. This is not to say that Trump has no chance, but his major chance seems to be from an unexpected event, not something that is factored into the models.
posted by OmieWise at 12:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

2016 has a way of making the most far-out, savage satires seem like they were actually just fortune telling.

This year, cirrhosis has become an occupational hazard for Onion editors.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:23 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

> Things skew the opposite in 538's model (polls +). It seems to me, again, untrained and just looking at the raw data, like 538's map does not very well describe the territory.

From what I understand - based on listening to all the 538 podcasts and not any actual expertise - their model is conservative because it factors in Clinton's high unfavorability, the (supposedly) large number of undecided voters, and smoothing out Clinton's post convention bounce.

They also seem to think there is a good chance that something damning toward Clinton could be released in September (like the Romney video from 2012) though I'm not sure if some kind of surprise is actually built into the model or not.

Anyway, I think they learned a lesson from primaries and are doing their best to predict their reputation. They'll still be right if (or when, IMO) Hillary wins but they could still claim "well we said this was possible" if something truly insane happens and Tump comes out on top.
posted by Tevin at 12:29 PM on August 30, 2016

Part of Sam Wang's higher probability of Clinton winning is that he "sharpened" his forecast on August 21st, once the convention bounces had passed.

He concluded that this election fits the pattern typical of post-1996 elections, which are much more stable than those in the 1952-1992 period. Leads like this one are just not very likely to go away.
posted by msalt at 12:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

How about them downticket races? Any chance of unseating [disgusting Republican stooge] in [your state here]?
posted by petebest at 12:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

In the PA senate race, Toomey is slightly up over McGinty after a week of heavy advertising in the Philadelphia area. The TV ads were almost exclusively about reaching across the aisle to try and close firearms background check loopholes. McGiny hasn't aired any ads I've seen but at least one pro-choice PAC is airing anti-Toomey ads.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:41 PM on August 30, 2016

Do any of the other foundations (Powell's et. al.) provide the degree of transparency that the Clintons' does?

Here's a article from last year (when Jeb! was the presumed frontrunner) comparing the transparency between the Clintons' foundation and the Bush foundations. Short answer is what Francis said above, nope.
posted by peeedro at 12:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

OmieWise: The polls-plus model mixes the poll results with the pattern you'd expect based purely on economic statistics (with the weighting towards the economic forecast decreasing to zero as the election approaches). The main reason polls-plus has typically had a lower forecast success for Clinton is because that economic forecast isn't far from a 50-50 race.

Both the polls-only and polls-plus models incorporate the possibility of major changes in the race (an October Surprise or otherwise), based on what's happened in past elections. This is treated as having some probability for a swing that affects all states at once similarly (though not uniformly). That has a much larger effect on the win probability than independent drifts from all the states would.

For all the details, see this link.

Conveniently, Nate Silver recently posted a summary comparison of many of the poll-based forecasts out there.
posted by janewman at 12:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

New Monmouth Poll in Pennsylvania:

Clinton 48-40
McGinty 45-41
posted by you're a kitty! at 12:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Only look at composite polls and stop freaking out about individual polls and 538's whackadoodle forecast.

I don't think the anxiety is about how those forecasts relate to the actual outcome of the election, those numbers are pretty solid and have been for a good long while. The thing that the now-cast illustrates is that the people who are polled are capable of changing their minds about Trump.

Donnie bottomed out at 3.6% and from our perspective, I think that makes it look as though all but 3.6% people have finally figured out who Cheeto-Jebus really is, seen the light, and made their decision.

But the reality is that people are horrible. Some of the other 96.4% aren't okay with a total racist scumbag but they are okay with a mostly racist scum-pouch. Or maybe they're okay with a total racist scumbag, just not one who is so loud about it. So, as soon as he pivots just a little bit, those people are going to decide that he is now a palatable flavor awful that they can vote for.

Now-cast doesn't tell you much about the odds of various outcomes of the election but it does tell you a lot about how horrible people can be and the reminder that there is a wide spectrum of horribleness is a little sickening.
posted by VTX at 12:45 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Top House Dems Seek FBI Investigation of Possible Trump Connections to Cyber Attacks

Reps. Elijah E. Cummings, John Conyers, Jr., Elliot L. Engel, and Bennie G. Thompson, the Ranking Members of the House Committees on Oversight and Government Reform, Judiciary, Foreign Affairs, and Homeland Security, sent a detailed letter to FBI Director James Comey requesting that the FBI assess whether connections between Trump campaign officials and Russian interests may have contributed to cyber attacks against the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in order to interfere with the U.S. presidential election.

posted by Atom Eyes at 12:46 PM on August 30, 2016 [33 favorites]

New Monmouth Poll in Pennsylvania:

Clinton 48-40
McGinty 45-41

This, I like.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

"Donnie bottomed out at 3.6% and from our perspective, I think that makes it look as though all but 3.6% people have finally figured out who Cheeto-Jebus really is, seen the light, and made their decision."

I think those numbers are odds of winning, not percentage of votes.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:49 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Miko, Vox put out a detailed piece on the double standard.

Thanks - that was good, but it dealt only with the Powell foundation. I thought the argument was especially powerful with Points of LIght, etc., included. Maybe that was humanfont's compilation and it hasn't all been gathered together elsewhere.
posted by Miko at 12:51 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Clinton camp believes that Mr. Trump is most insecure about his intelligence, his net worth and his image as a successful businessman, and those are the areas they are working with Mrs. Clinton to target.

I'm guessing that Clinton's most effective tactics in the debates will be based on Trump's reaction to Secretary Clinton not having a penis and Donnie not being able to control the conversation. The debates will test how much awful misogyny America will tolerate. Knowing that will be useful for the Republicans' post-election plans for opposing President Clinton.
posted by rdr at 1:02 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

The debates will test how much awful misogyny America will tolerate.

I think I already know the answer to this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:07 PM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

This is even more true when you realize many of these people do not read at all.

A couple of stories from the depths of redneck territory. My husband was sitting outside on a lunch break reading a novel and one of his coworkers comes up and is all... "Reading, huh? We've got a book at my house . . . the phone book."

We had a yard sale that included a small pile of books. Trashy bestsellers, stuff we didn't even know how we had... So this woman comes up to pay for a stack of 3 books. "I have a friend who reads," she says in explanation for her purchase.
posted by threeturtles at 1:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [24 favorites]

I think those numbers are odds of winning, not percentage of votes.

My bad, you are 100% correct. But it is based on polling data so my point still stands. The idea that people would sour on Trump makes sense to us. As the majority of people who don't really pay that much attention are exposed to DJT, his odds go down. But then his numbers start going back up and we don't understand why. It's because some people are terrible.
posted by VTX at 1:13 PM on August 30, 2016

People. Enough with the stereotyping of people from certain geographic areas. We have had this discussion already and it is not cool.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

rdr: The debates will test how much awful misogyny America will tolerate.

soren_lorensen: I think I already know the answer to this.

More ... ~~weight~~ hate ... *dying breath*
posted by filthy light thief at 1:15 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

As the majority of people who don't really pay that much attention are exposed to DJT, his odds go down. But then his numbers start going back up and we don't understand why. It's because some people are terrible.

But this is assuming that either people were less terrible for a while, and now they'll get more terrible, or either candidate will do something to significantly narrow the probability gap.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:19 PM on August 30, 2016

More like the media will do something to significantly narrow the probability gap.
posted by dersins at 1:22 PM on August 30, 2016

For every example given to me of a rural, "redneck" person who doesn't read, I can counter with an anecdote of an affluent, educated person who does not read, or of a woman who smilingly encourages their young sons to harbor misogynistic beliefs, or any other shitty thing. So let's not go down that road, because number one, it's gross and classist and I'd like to believe that we can be better than that, and number two, I've got other things I'd rather be doing today.
posted by palomar at 1:23 PM on August 30, 2016 [78 favorites]

Hillary Clinton basically did everything short of putting up a sign saying "If you want to try and bribe me put the money here."

On what do you base this statement?

And then almost certainly made sure she didn't know who had actually donated.

How do you know that -- given that you, I and anyone else can find out who donated in three clicks of the mouse.

These seem to be some shaky suppositions. Any other thoughts from out of the blue?
posted by JackFlash at 1:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

On the "Uncle Herbert" thing...

I don't think we always fully recognize the extent to which attitudes have changed in the last few decades and how deep people's prejudices go in past generations.

My mom is in her 70s and so are her friends. But my mom's always been pretty hip, sexually liberal, she explored feminism and taught university, even if she voted Republican. So even she was fairly shocked when one of her best friends of almost thirty years confessed that she didn't have much contact with her son because he was gay. This woman told my mom this in strictest confidence because she felt my mom was one of the only people she knew who wouldn't judge her son. And she was considering trying to be more accepting and build a relationship with her son again. But she needed someone to hold her hand and actually go with her to meet with her son and his partner.

And my mom was pretty gobsmacked by the whole thing, but ended up becoming friends with the woman's son and helping her friend feel ok with having this relationship with her own son. (Her husband would NOT even see him.) And we're talking a not particularly religious woman who drank and partied and had a career, but this was still this deep shameful secret for her she couldn't tell any of her friends about.

So basically yes, I think it's important to support people who want to change their attitudes and ideas, even while judging them pretty hard for their past behavior. Changing is a difficult thing, especially when it means going against your peer group or family, so compassion is warranted.
posted by threeturtles at 1:29 PM on August 30, 2016 [46 favorites]

There is actually a semi-legitimate appearance of corruption at The Clinton Foundation. This isn't because it's corrupt - anything but. It's because the whole of Washington is on Pay for Play (the DCCC says four hours a day fundraising, the RNCC thirty hours a week for Congresscritters) and Hillary Clinton basically did everything short of putting up a sign saying "If you want to try and bribe me put the money here." And then almost certainly made sure she didn't know who had actually donated.

Wait a minute. I can't parse this. If there is a "semi-legitimate appearance of corruption" at Clinton Foundation because Congressmen/women have to spend x amount of time campaign fundraising, then every Congressman/woman who has a charity has a "semi-legitimate appearance of corruption". "Everyone is corrupt" is a lazy argument, and it certainly isn't an argument based on evidence.

You say she did "everything short of of putting up a sign...", but don't explain what you mean by "everything", leaving it purposefully vague. You say she worked to make sure she didn't know who donated, but how in the hell can you quid-pro-quo with people who donated if you don't know who they are?
posted by Groundhog Week at 1:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

will the debates be aired with a seven-second profanity delay in case Hillary's provoking is successful?
posted by strange chain at 1:32 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Now-cast doesn't tell you much about the odds of various outcomes of the election but it does tell you a lot about how horrible people can be and the reminder that there is a wide spectrum of horribleness is a little sickening.

So don't borrow trouble. We've had plenty enough evidence of people being terrible during this election--with more in the mail--without having to go looking for it.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:36 PM on August 30, 2016

will the debates be aired with a seven-second profanity delay in case Hillary's provoking is wildly successful?

She gets him beeped and I swear I'll cancel cable so I can donate fifty more a month.
posted by Mooski at 1:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

Well the point of my reading stories was (1) I think they're funny. And (2) when I lived in a major metropolitan area an hour from here I didn't ever hear these kinds of "oh you're a reader" comments. There really and truly is an anti-reading, anti-education pride in these rural areas. I mean, SOME people certainly read anyway. But reading a book is enough to mark you as "other" among the working class here in a way that never came up in a city.

Which is not to say that rural people are stupid or whatever. (And redneck is a term of pride people use about themselves here, in case people found that offensive.) But I think it's important to note that to a lot of people reading is one of those things other people do. It's almost to the point of what someone's reaction would be if you said your favorite music was opera and you have season tickets to the ballet. It's a class marker.
posted by threeturtles at 1:37 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm guessing that Clinton's most effective tactics in the debates will be based on Trump's reaction to Secretary Clinton not having a penis and Donnie not being able to control the conversation.

Friendly reminder that neither the lack of a penis nor the presence of a uterus makes one a woman.

Why does this small bit of wording matter? Because if a woman with a penis were running for President, she would be treated even worse than Hillary Clinton is now. #TransAndShameless

N.B. A penis is not a requirement for being a man. Sometimes men have uteri, as well.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:38 PM on August 30, 2016 [44 favorites]

shocked i am shocked that money gives one access to washington insiders
posted by entropicamericana at 1:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Team Trump is putting out these stories about lack of preparations for the debate in an attempt to lower his expectations. I'm not buying it for a minute.
posted by humanfont at 1:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

I love me the hell out of a good road trip, but "asphalt prairie" gives me a sad.
posted by dersins at 2:03 PM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

this finale always makes me cry
posted by theodolite at 2:04 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump hammers Clinton for FBI's discovery of 30 Benghazi emails

Donald Trump's campaign on Tuesday seized on revelations that the FBI has recovered an additional 30 emails from Hillary Clinton’s private server relating to the 2012 terrorist attack against the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, saying the alarming development makes one wonder “what is contained in the other emails she attempted to wipe from her server.”

WTF, Hills?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:06 PM on August 30, 2016

That's some grade A trolling from Boehner.
posted by octothorpe at 2:08 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

WTF, Hills?

"Using broad search terms, we have identified approximately 30 documents potentially responsive to a Benghazi-related request," spokesman John Kirby said in a statement to CNN. "At this time, we have not confirmed that the documents are, in fact, responsive, or whether they are duplicates of materials already provided to the Department by former Secretary Clinton in December 2014."
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

reading a book is enough to mark you as "other" among the working class here in a way that never came up in a city.

Must have been a nice city. I live in a Northeastern city and I could probably find five people meeting your description within 500 yards of me right now. Seriously, your perceptions are limited, this isn't a rural-only, South-only or "redneck"-only attitude, and you're feeding a systemic bias. It would be great not to do it.
posted by Miko at 2:11 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

"Using broad search terms

Let's discuss the relationship between precision and recall.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:18 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

WTF, Hills?

Media: Did someone say emails? Trump said EMAILS, did everyone hear him say emails? Oh they "found" more emails, EMAILS. CLINTON SENDS EMAILS. EMAILGHAZI! This means his campaign is back on track! Because of the emails.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:18 PM on August 30, 2016 [21 favorites]

Donald Trump's campaign on Tuesday seized on revelations that the FBI has recovered an additional 30 emails from Hillary Clinton’s private server relating to the 2012 terrorist attack against the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, saying the alarming development makes one wonder “what is contained in the other emails she attempted to wipe from her server.”

An impressive collection of half-truths and outright fabrications for a single sentence.

These are not "additional" newly recovered emails. They are part of the batch turned over to the FBI months ago, which formed the basis of Comey's report in July.

The State department got them from the FBI, and, in going through them, has recently found (as prize bull octorok notes above), that 30 of them might be related to Benghazi. They might also just be duplicates of the same old shit everybody's already beat to death in the, what, 8(?) investigations.
posted by dersins at 2:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [20 favorites]

> Without crowd feedback he could start flailing and tossing out any random thing in his head, unsure of which things are "sticking."

Maybe he'll wear an earpiece with a sound link to Breitbart HQ so he can hear all the bros hooting and hollering at his "zingers."
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:24 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Which is why the debates will be a wash. HC will win (so did Kerry) and El Cheeto's minions will whoop and woof at every available opportunity to the semi-anguished and ineffective flopitude of the MSM moderator.

Note to Jim Lehrer - you are on vacation. Whenever it is.
posted by petebest at 2:26 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Maybe found more emails, maybe not. Let's make a public announcement.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:26 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

10 weeks to the election? This is what we call"getting it out of the way". Not likely to be remembered by anyone not eager to hear juicy lies about Clinton, and they're long lost.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:26 PM on August 30, 2016

GOP senators running scared?
Grassley Says Lame Duck Hearings for Garland Are a Possibility
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

> "Team Trump is putting out these stories about lack of preparations for the debate in an attempt to lower his expectations. I'm not buying it for a minute."

With literally any other candidate, I would be certain of that as well, but ... Trump's Razor.
posted by kyrademon at 2:45 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

Trump doesn't have the attention span or the discipline to prepare for the debate. He figures he'll go in and play it by ear and trust his gut, same as everything else.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:50 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

> "Grassley Says Lame Duck Hearings for Garland Are a Possibility"

"Grassley Says All Stated Reason for Not Giving Garland a Hearing Are Obvious, Ludicrous Lies" [fake, but on the other hand, kind of what that actually means]
posted by kyrademon at 2:54 PM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

Flake explicitly stated that he would support lame duck hearings only if “we lose the election in November.” In that case, the senator explained, “we ought to approve [Garland] quickly” given his moderate record: “I’m certain that he’ll be more conservative than a Hillary Clinton nomination, come January.”

Flake might be closest to the fence of sanity, but forget that. He ought to have been saying this months ago when it was completely obvious that Garland was a perfectly acceptable nominee for the Republicans by any reasonable standard, but no, rather than accept any kind of reasonable compromise, they decided to screw around with the whole country. It's like it's a theme.

If the Senate goes blue, the best thing for the country is to simply give them what they thought they wanted: have the next President make the appointments. When they yell and scream about that (and they will) remind the country that they had close to an entire year in which they could have chosen another route.
posted by wildblueyonder at 2:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

GOP senators running scared?

Obama gave them a GIFT with Garland and they spat it back in his face. Now they're finally understanding that. I'm sure it's tough to figure these things out with their tiny brains.
posted by xyzzy at 2:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [27 favorites]

In other news: Meg Whitman, a Republican who had backed Chris Christie for president during the primaries, will take to the hustings in Denver today to campaign for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. (Fortune, 8/30/2016)

Well, given the rumors that she's about to sell HP Enterprise to private equity, maybe she's thinking of a job in a "unity" cabinet.
posted by dw at 3:11 PM on August 30, 2016

Provided that Hillary wins the election and the dems secure a Senate majority I would loving nothing more than GOP senators desperately trying to start hearings on Garland but then Garland suddenly withdraws from the nomination and Hillary nominates Obama instead as soon as she takes office.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [30 favorites]

Obama gave them a GIFT with Garland and they spat it back in his face. Now they're finally understanding that. I'm sure it's tough to figure these things out with their tiny brains.

I like the idea that Obama give them a deadline in mid-September. If they don't hold hearings by then and start moving the confirmation process forward, he withdraws the nomination.

Pick your poison -- certainty or risk. Can't have it both ways.
posted by msalt at 3:14 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

> Well, given the rumors that she's about to sell HP Enterprise to private equity, maybe she's thinking of a job in a "unity" cabinet.

When GWB took office after an election so close that the Presidency was awarded through a Supreme Court ruling split on partisan lines, the only Democrat he named to his cabinet was Norm Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

"THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!"
2012: omg please no
2016: are we doing this or not
posted by litleozy at 3:25 PM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

I kind of hope Garland withdraws himself and Obama nominates someone even more liberal.
posted by VTX at 3:25 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

I like the idea that Obama give them a deadline in mid-September. If they don't hold hearings by then and start moving the confirmation process forward, he withdraws the nomination.

Meh. Withdrawing the nom would be exactly what the Republicans want, and it will get spun as "Obama was never serious about Garland, and this proves it." or "Obama's playing cynical, divisive political games" or "Obama caves to Republican pressure" or somesuch. And the news orgs will lap it up and regurgitate it.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Poor Garland. I bet he's not exactly checking Zillow for nice homes in the DC suburbs these days.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

Selections from the 21 best exchanges in The Washington Post's Trump interviews:

The announcement 'speech' was more of an 'outline'
Speaking to Dan Balz and Jenna Johnson, Trump remarked that he did not necessarily want to do the speech that was sent out prior to his June 16, 2015, announcement at Trump Tower.

"Because I really view that, again, never having done this before, I viewed that as an outline, not necessarily something that I would have to follow. So I gave out to you what was called an outline. Little did I know that's very unusual that somebody would give out a speech and then go totally off speech," Trump said. "Because I didn't go off speech on Mexico; I want off speech on virtually everything."

Hanging up
Boburg: "Mr. Trump, we just have two more questions and then we’ll let you run. The story today about John Miller. Did you ever employ someone named John Miller as a spokesperson?"

Boburg: "I think he hung up. I’m pretty sure he hung up."

O’Harrow: "Yeah, he hung up. That’s the end of the interview with Donald Trump.

posted by kirkaracha at 3:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

I like the idea that Obama give them a deadline in mid-September. If they don't hold hearings by then and start moving the confirmation process forward, he withdraws the nomination.

Pick your poison -- certainty or risk. Can't have it both ways.

Problem is, the only reason this would work is because their nominee is a near lock to crash and burn in November. If Trump were winning, then McConnell's shitty obstructionism would be an unqualified success. There's still the unresolved issue of whether or not the Senate has the power to sit on nominations indefinitely. How does that get resolved?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:37 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

Er (not to nitpick, but) that's former-AR governor Mike Huckabee.

Oh, that's a really stupid typo on my part. Thanks for correcting me!
posted by zarq at 3:42 PM on August 30, 2016

They have been lining up all day in Everett. The rally starts at 7:00 pm. That's 10:00 EDT so I'll be tucked up in bed watching TV. But I will check the Blue before turning out my light to see if anything exciting was said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:45 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump's new DC Hotel could not find any celebrity Chefs to fill the restaurant space so he had to go with a chain.

Cathal Armstrong, Fabio Trabocchi, Stephen Starr, Richard Sandoval and Eric Ziebold were all named in the documents as chefs who liked the project, but considered the association with Trump to be “too much to swallow.”

“All the chefs know each other, and I think they were just staying away from it at the time this was all going down… They were all very politically correct and said, ‘We’re avoiding it for political reasons,’” said Jeffrey Pollak, the man charged whose company Streetsense was hired to help fill the space, in a deposition.

Ultimately, Trump settled for the high-end steakhouse chain BLT Prime to fill the space left by Andrés. That might look like a win until you consider that BLT already has restaurants in several of Trump’s properties (and has nowhere near the cachet of the celebs they were hoping to pull in), and they own a second BLT property just a few blocks away

Yes. Trump is "too much to swallow" and I certainly would not be able to choke down a meal in a building that he owned.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Wait Obama on the Supreme Court ? Is this real or fake?!?
posted by mgrrl at 3:53 PM on August 30, 2016

It's wishful thinking, mgrrl
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Wait Obama on the Supreme Court ? Is this real or fake?!?

I think it counts as [wish].
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

In case of a landslide I think it's actually a possibility.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:54 PM on August 30, 2016

Wait Obama on the Supreme Court ? Is this real or fake?!?
Not real, yet. I would love love love to see that happen though.
posted by Golem XIV at 3:55 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I remain convinced that Michelle Obama would wreak a terrible vengeance on anybody keeping her and Barack in DC a second longer than it takes for their kids to graduate.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:55 PM on August 30, 2016 [58 favorites]

Trump lifts ban on media outlets, at least for pool duty

Four of the news organizations that Trump has blacklisted from covering his campaign events -- The Post, BuzzFeed, Politico and Huffington Post -- are all listed on the September rotation for a new print press pool that will cover Trump.

"We are pleased to announce that after some start-and-stop negotiations with the Trump campaign, we are debuting our full print pool this week, starting with BuzzFeed today in Washington," read an email to the pool, first obtained by Politico.

News outlets use press pools to streamline the reporting process: Each day, a reporter from one outlet provides the others with a running summary of the candidate's activities and remarks on the campaign trail.

This year, Trump and his campaign have placed bans on Univision, BuzzFeed, Politico, The Daily Beast, The Huffington Post, The Washington Post and The Des Moines Register because he took issue with their reporting or believed they had an anti-Trump bias

Jesus, I hadn't realized the banned list had gotten that big.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

There's still the unresolved issue of whether or not the Senate has the power to sit on nominations indefinitely. How does that get resolved?

I hope that the blocking senators come to their senses or that they're replaced by senators with more sense. If the worst came to the worst you would have a constitutional crisis: no quorum for the Supreme Court and serious unresolved issues to be determined. In that case, I think the only way out would be for the President to force the Senate to confirm sufficient justices to fill a quorum. There's historical precedent for this sort of thing, and the alternative is basically civil war anyway, so …
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:57 PM on August 30, 2016

[whisper of a dream]
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:57 PM on August 30, 2016

Obama? Do you not have actual judges to appoint? Is it just a fantasy about sending a fuck you to the Republicans?
posted by knapah at 3:59 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

He was a Con Law professor at one of the top law schools in the country. He's got the chops.
posted by dersins at 4:00 PM on August 30, 2016 [19 favorites]

[Wish] will do for me. Barely resurfacing after brexit and I could do with some hope and dreams.
posted by mgrrl at 4:01 PM on August 30, 2016

I don't actually think Obama would be a liberal choice for the Supreme Court, given his views on execution and habeas corpus.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:02 PM on August 30, 2016 [14 favorites]

Nobody’s Buying Donald Trump’s Immigration Lies:

Every utterance and position that helped Trump win the primary is proving to be a complete and utter disaster for him in the general, because the voters who put Trump over the top in the primaries are a bunch of enraged white people with very deep suspicions and prejudices, while the bulk of Americans are fair-minded human beings who aren’t governed by fear and anger.

Romney almost convinced the latter group because, however conservative, he was fundamentally one of them. Trump is not.

Despite the fact that every word that comes out of his mouth is a lie, he nevertheless managed last year to tell us exactly who he is. We should believe him.

posted by kirkaracha at 4:03 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

I relish the thought of Scalia, somewhere deep down in Very Allegorically On-The-Nose Catholic Hell, being given the news that Barack Obama turned out to be his replacement.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:04 PM on August 30, 2016 [34 favorites]

Wouldn't he need to recuse himself from any cases involving decisions that he, as president, was involved in? Seems like a crazy idea.
posted by knapah at 4:06 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Obama would be a liberal choice for the Supreme Court, given his views on execution and habeas corpus.

I'm not sure we know what those views actually are. We know what Obama the President's views are, but those may well be different from the views of Obama the person or Obama the Justice.

I'm not trying to be cute. My reading of Obama, in which I could well be wrong, is that he's a thoughtful guy who is also a contextual realist. I really don't think that all of the choices he's made as President represent the positions he most deeply holds. I don't think that hypocritical, I think it relates to his pretty deeply held pragmatism.
posted by OmieWise at 4:09 PM on August 30, 2016 [47 favorites]

Wouldn't he need to recuse himself from any cases involving decisions that he, as president, was involved in? Seems like a crazy idea.

It is crazy and there are a whole lot of practical and perfectly rational reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea, including the likelihood that he just wouldn't want to do it.

From a purely fanfic, whatif speculation, it being an 'omg people would freak out and lose their minds' poke at the idiot Right and all the hilarity and schedufreude the would come from watching it all happen, it is an awesome idea.
posted by Jalliah at 4:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Regarding the Trump rally in Everett, WA: Apparently the protest demonstration is being led by none other than the mayor of Everett.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [29 favorites]

If we're doing fanfic about the justice that would freak out the republicans the most I would like to suggest an extremely socialist Pomeranian with a little bow tie

So, this guy?
posted by dersins at 4:23 PM on August 30, 2016

that is not a pomeranian he is not even nearly cute enough
posted by burgerrr at 4:27 PM on August 30, 2016

Pomeranian, Belgian, tomayto, tomahto.
posted by dersins at 4:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Con law professor and editor of Harvard Law Review. And 8 years as president. I'd say he has the bona fides.
posted by Sophie1 at 4:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Saturday morning Trump will be in Detroit to be interviewed by Bishop Wayne T. Jackson at the Great Faith Ministries Church. This interview will be aired on Christian Television Network.

"People have asked why hasn't he come to a black church or university and so forth and so on; why hadn't he come and spoke to us about what his policies are?" Jackson said. "He's going into white venues and talking about what he wants to do for black people and he needs to come to our neighborhood. He's doing that and people are criticizing that, so I don't know what you could do."

The bishop has already started preparing his questions for Trump.

"You saying you're going to make it better for us, then I want to know, and African-Americans want to know, well what are your policies? What are you going to do if you are elected?" Jackson said.

1. Make America great again
2. Bring Law and Order to the streets
3. Close the border so there will be more jobs for everyone
4. What have you got to lose?

Their interview will be private, and will be broadcast on the network about a week later.

Hmmm. Why does it need to be private and kept secret for a week?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Can I make a confession?

I have no idea what the BENGHAZI!!! thing is about. I mean, I could take a stab at explaining the very broadest outlines of the incident in question, and I'd probably get it at about half right. Something something Libya something embassy something people died (and it's Clinton's fault because she ignored someone's advice or something).

But I've failed to absorb anything beyond that, because my eyes glaze over as soon as I see the word. Because it's always, always part of some unhinged shrieking diatribe from someone who's obviously invested in smearing Clinton regardless of the merit (or lack thereof) of the smears.

Ditto for Vince Foster, or any of the other allegations of theatrically sinister acts by Clinton. For all I know, they're all true, and I'm just ignorant of the evidence because my eyes reflexively roll away from the spittle-flecked screeds it tends to come embedded in.

I'm not proud of myself for this. I'm just sayin'.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [41 favorites]

personally this dog would be my dream supreme court canine nominee
posted by burgerrr at 4:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kurt Eichenwald in Newsweek: How Donald Trump's Politics Will Gut The Republican Party for Decades
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:32 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why does it need to be private and kept secret for a week?
That's about the same amount of time NBC used to edit each episode of "The Apprentice" to make The Donald look halfway human. Sounds fair.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

escape, I feel the same way. How do I know what the hell Hillary might even have actually done wrong anymore? I read the Wikipedia article on Benghazi and called it a day.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:35 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Why does it need to be private and kept secret for a week?

That's about the same amount of time NBC used to edit each episode of "The Apprentice" to make The Donald look halfway human. Sounds fair.

Yeah that's what I thought. Someone is going to be monkeying around with the interview to make him more palatable or something but why? Why would Bishop Jackson want to do this for Trump? Big donation to the church?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Selections from the 21 best exchanges in The Washington Post's Trump interviews:

Trump: “And then I immediately thought of the Vatican with the massive walls. I said, well, wait a minute, he’s got the bigger walls. He's got walls like you couldn't even dream of. So it was sort of strange..."

It's an oldie but goodie. This is a google street view of the massive wall that separates Vatican City from Italy. Hint, it is the structure in the foreground. No word on a possible virtual wall.
posted by peeedro at 4:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

. . . would be exactly what the Republicans want, and it will get spun as . . .

Should the Democrats still care about spin? The GOP nom for POTUS is literally retweeting nazis and the MSM is still "Gosh these darned candidates, am I right white people?!?"

Let's not Tom Daschle around. Zig for great justice!
posted by petebest at 4:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do you not have actual judges to appoint?

There's a really, really good argument that "judges" are over-represented on the Court compared to other legal backgrounds. Some of the best Justices in history have been politicians, legal activists, public intellectuals, labor lawyers, and Senators. It's only in the last 40 years that being a federal appellate judge became a prerequisite for SCOTUS, not coincidentally at the same time the Court became the most hyper-partisan it's ever been, and a track record of voting according to the President's political alignments became more important than judicial ability, intellectual integrity or legal vision. Like most things, SCOTUS has suffered greatly from the hardening of American politics.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [31 favorites]

Yeah that's what I thought. Someone is going to be monkeying around with the interview to make him more palatable or something but why? Why would Bishop Jackson want to do this for Trump? Big donation to the church?

Maybe just waiting to see if the check actually clears.
posted by rp at 4:39 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

> If we're doing fanfic about the justice that would freak out the republicans the most I would like to suggest an extremely socialist Pomeranian with a little bow tie

One of the key factors to keep in mind when selecting a Supreme Court justice is how long you can expect them to stay on the court before they die or retire. Pomeranians, with their lifespans of 12 to 16 years, are therefore not a good choice.

A better choice might be an anarchosyndicalist Greenland shark. Given the Greenland shark's extremely long lifespan, an anarchosyndicalist Greenland shark could end up shaping American jurisprudence for literally centuries. The only tricky thing would be keeping them away from Icelanders, as they may try to gut, behead, and then eat them, after of course letting them ferment for several months to neutralize the antifreeze in their blood.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on August 30, 2016 [61 favorites]

Wouldn't he need to recuse himself from any cases involving decisions that he, as president, was involved in?

Nobody can force a Supreme Court Justice to recuse themselves. They only do so voluntarily.

Famously, for example, Scalia did not recuse himself from a case before the court involving Dick Cheney even though he rode with Cheney on his plane and spent a week with him on a duck hunt at a private resort in Louisiana while the case was pending.

Now that I mention it, the court ruled that news media were not entitled to a list of meetings Cheney had with oil industry CEOs for his Energy Task Force. Now the news media are given access to all of Clinton's meetings with private and government leaders. Funny how that works.
posted by JackFlash at 4:41 PM on August 30, 2016 [28 favorites]

I'm not proud of myself for this. I'm just sayin'.

In my case I have taken the time to listen and read the arguments they're making. I know at one time I read all about what the Vince Foster thing was about. None of it seems to have stuck over time. If someone asked I would only be able to talk in really broad terms. Probably because what they're saying is so obviously BS to me that my brain just doesn't bother to file it away as something important enough to stick around for the long term.

I probably should know enough to at least be able to have some good counters for the biggest snippets of BS but experience has also lead to feeling this is mostly a waste of time because people that spout this nonsense act like they're in a cult.
posted by Jalliah at 4:41 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

And Clarence Thomas did not recuse himself from the Obamacare cases, when his wife was deeply involved in lobbying against it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

I did at one time have a grasp on Benghazi and what happened but it has slowly leaked out of my brain. The only thing I can remember is that the Republican-controlled congress had refused to increase funding for Embassy security detail.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

I have no idea what the BENGHAZI!!! thing is about.

In fairness, neither do the people selling it as a big deal. Feelings over facts again, they just feel that she did something bad.
posted by Artw at 4:48 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

The only tricky thing would be keeping them away from Icelanders, as they may try to gut, behead, and then eat them, after of course letting them ferment for several months to neutralize the antifreeze in their blood.

Pronoun trouble...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:50 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

This whole derail about appointing an animal to the Supreme Court is really really dumb guys. Everyone knows if you have the choice you pick a tree, specifically a redwood or giant sequoia who will bring some much needed Native American perspective to the bench and whose knowledge of climatology is second to none.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:51 PM on August 30, 2016 [25 favorites]

don't you think it's a little gruesome to put a tree behind the bench, though? like, it might have been someone the tree knew...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:55 PM on August 30, 2016 [58 favorites]

threeturtles, the data on rural/urban book readers is not as stark as your anecdotes make out. According to http://libraries.pewinternet.org/2012/04/04/part-2-the-general-reading-habits-of-americans/ 71% rural vs 80% urban read at least 1 book per year. Strangely a later survey http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/01/16/a-snapshot-of-reading-in-america-in-2013/ narrowed that to 76% vs 77%.

(My own anecdotes: Little free libraries deep in hollers that also have eggs for sale, and country stores with their own little libraries and book clubs.)

You could still be right that lack of reading is being used as a class marker, but it's more strongly correlated with education level or ethnicity than location.
posted by joeyh at 4:55 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

No trees. No silent immovable ancient objects. We already have Justice Thomas.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

I have no idea what the BENGHAZI!!! thing is about.

Troops were poised to go in and rescue the Ambassador, but Clinton, in her role as Commander in Chief of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, called it off because her staff assistant is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. [Need I say Fake?]
posted by JackFlash at 4:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Wait a second, that is actually [Real] because that is actually what the Republicans are saying.
posted by JackFlash at 5:01 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

you know with that tree/bench joke I think I may have made myself very slightly more qualified to be the Democratic nominee for Vice President.

also I do a brilliant Trump impression. Brilliant. Believe me!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:05 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Wait a second, that is actually [Real] because that is actually what the Republicans are saying.

We need a word to describe this phenomenon.
posted by Jalliah at 5:07 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Benghazi also started up as a thing because there were initial mistakes about whether it was a riot over an offensive film or if, as it turned out, it was an actual planned attack. Statements and corrections up through the next cycle of Sunday morning talk shows were a little inconsistent. That's what started the whole narrative of it being some awful conspiracy or cover-up.

It's kinda like how the Clintons losing some money on a real estate deal before getting into the White House led to investigations, which in turn led to the discovery of Billl's affair with Monica Lewinsky. Mistakes and bad calls were made during the attack (none by HRC), but ultimately there was obviously nothing going on.

Republicans hyped Benghazi up so they could go on a fishing expedition in the hopes of finding something, anything to use against HRC. The mere existence of the investigations was damaging enough ("Where there's smoke, there's fire (so let's make lots of smoke)!!"). And later, several Republicans have been caught saying the whole thing was about dragging down HRC's numbers all along.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:08 PM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

Everyone knows if you have the choice you pick a tree, specifically a redwood or giant sequoia who will bring some much needed Native American perspective to the bench and whose knowledge of climatology is second to none.

I am proud to nominate this somehow-sentient lump of tellurium-128 with a half-life of around seven septillion years.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

We need a word to describe this phenomenon.
[kayfabe]?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [20 favorites]

There's still the unresolved issue of whether or not the Senate has the power to sit on nominations indefinitely.

Presidents can make recess appointments that are active until some point in the next session (I can't recall if it is the beginning or the end.) Chief Justice Warren was one of three recess appointments by Eisenhower, iirc. (Eisenhower later said that Warren was his greatest mistake as President.)
posted by xyzzy at 5:11 PM on August 30, 2016

Wait a second, that is actually [Real] because that is actually what the Republicans are saying.

We need a word to describe this phenomenon.

Kayfabe.
posted by dersins at 5:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Dammit, oneswellfoop.
posted by dersins at 5:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

And later, several Republicans have been caught saying the whole thing was about dragging down HRC's numbers all along.

No doubt, but cite plz? Would be handy.
posted by petebest at 5:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Presidents can make recess appointments that are active until some point in the next session

Not if the Senate never formally recesses.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:14 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Let's try not to get too cute with our [real/fake] tags, please. We seem to be slipping in that direction. it would rather undermine their purpose.

If a simple [real] or [fake] doesn't suffice, a brief aside (e.g. "not factually true of course, but this is what X faction claims") should do the trick.

my $0.02
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:15 PM on August 30, 2016 [21 favorites]

Not if the Senate never formally recesses.

That's true, but Presidents have some power to play games with the session themselves. I mean, it wouldn't be unheard of for these Republicans to do literally insane things, but I don't see them forcing a Constitutional crisis out of pique. There's plenty of room for me to be wrong.
posted by xyzzy at 5:19 PM on August 30, 2016

Republic Rep Kevin McCarthy:

“Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she’s untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened, had we not fought.”

posted by Joey Michaels at 5:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

No doubt, but cite plz? Would be handy.

Kevin McCarthy (R--Calif) "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she’s untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened, had we not fought.”

Richard Hanna (R--NY) "This may not be politically correct, but I think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton. After what Kevin McCarthy said, it's difficult to accept at least a part of it was not. I think that's the way Washington works. But you'd like to expect more from a committee that's spent millions of dollars and tons of time."
posted by chaoticgood at 5:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [27 favorites]

Three men stand in a field.

One always tells the truth and labels with [real].
One always lies and labels with [fake].
The third may lie or tell the truth, but will label with the opposite tag.

Whose tax returns do you need to figure out who is who?
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:25 PM on August 30, 2016 [14 favorites]

Whose tax returns do you need to figure out who is who?

Steve's.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [26 favorites]

As far as the SC recusal, it didn't prevent Taft from serving as president and then as Supreme Court justice.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Whose tax return? The cat with the brick in its mouth.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:29 PM on August 30, 2016

Kevin McCarthy (R--Calif) "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she’s untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened, had we not fought.”

Well Congressman, you're incompetent if you can't actually bring any charges or findings against someone who did such terrible harm, yet is the current front runner for President of the United States. Why do you even have your job?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:38 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

WikiLeaks offers reward for leaks relating to the US Presidential election.

But of course: At the time of writing, an online poll accompanying the WikiLeaks post showed a heavy leaning towards the leaking of material relating to the Democratic Party candidate.

This follows their reward offer for info on Seth Rich.

Assange says he is focused on Clinton because Trump gets too much attention: Most recently, fighting off criticism that the leaks are biased against the Democratic Party, Assange claimed WikiLeaks does indeed have data on Donald Trump but that it's difficult to make a splash with it due to the increasingly outspoken nature of the GOP nominee.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:39 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Most recently, fighting off criticism that the leaks are biased against the Democratic Party, Assange claimed WikiLeaks does indeed have data on Donald Trump but that it's difficult to make a splash with it due to the increasingly outspoken nature of the GOP nominee.

So a "I'm not trying to influence the election I'm just more interested in publicity than in what I'm actually publicizing" kind of defense.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

...Assange claimed WikiLeaks does indeed have data on Donald Trump but that it's difficult to make a splash with it due to the increasingly outspoken nature of the GOP nominee.

Oh, bullshit. All this really says is Assange is a gigantic publicity whore. That, or actively working in Trump's interest for some unfathomable reason.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [26 favorites]

As far as the SC recusal, it didn't prevent Taft from serving as president and then as Supreme Court justice.

Eight years later, not in the next Administration.
posted by Etrigan at 5:46 PM on August 30, 2016

Robert Costa: Standby... the Post has confirmed an explosive development in the campaign tonight... expected to happen, tho details still being sorted out

This could be literally anything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump considering last-minute meeting in Mexico with country’s president

I assume it's about their contributions for the Taj Mah Wall. Or the amnesty program he's announcing tomorrow ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:51 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Donald Trump is considering jetting to Mexico City on Wednesday for a meeting with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto...
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 5:51 PM on August 30, 2016

All this really says is Assange is a gigantic publicity whore. That, or actively working in Trump's interest for some unfathomable reason.

If you were a certain stripe of fight-the-power, disrupt-the-system, or even burn-the-whole-thing-down person, you might well be either supporting Trump in hopes that this is what really pushes things over the edge into chaos (out of which, of course, better order will will naturally spontaneously arise), or you might be already interested in undermining Clinton's legitimacy and political capital so as to limit the power of the executive when she wins.
posted by wildblueyonder at 5:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Augh! What a tease. A WaPo reporter wouldn't use the word "explosive" unless the news is, like, explosive, right?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:52 PM on August 30, 2016

Trump considering last-minute meeting in Mexico with country’s president

What the blazes?
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Robert Costa: Standby... the Post has confirmed an explosive development in the campaign tonight... expected to happen, tho details still being sorted out

This could be literally anything.

Including a tweet that doesn't exist. Interesting...
posted by Francis at 5:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

I don't know if "explosive development" is a good phrase to use this cycle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

If Trump does go to Mexico, how quickly could we get that wall up?
posted by DanSachs at 5:55 PM on August 30, 2016 [96 favorites]

Why does it need to be private and kept secret for a week?

To encourage church membership/as a benefit for current top donors. No other reason than that, and this sort of thing is done routinely for major speakers at private orgs.
posted by Miko at 5:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Isn't Pena Nieto the guy who said he wasn't going to pay for "his fucking wall"? And he's inviting Trump to a meeting? It's a trap.
posted by klarck at 5:59 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

He's going to Mexio?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:00 PM on August 30, 2016

I just...what?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:01 PM on August 30, 2016

Vicente Fox was the president who dropped the nope on DTs wall.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:02 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

I know Chris Hayes is no Joy Reid, but I'm loving him this cycle.

On Mexico: "Maybe they told him there are electoral votes there."
posted by zutalors! at 6:02 PM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

Well, that's the last time I believe Robert Costa when he tells me he has explosive news about something.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:03 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump considering last-minute meeting in Mexico with country’s president

time for mexican customs and immigration to practice their extreme vetting
posted by murphy slaw at 6:04 PM on August 30, 2016 [19 favorites]

I'm not caught up on the thread, but I just want to note that I'm in Everett, having dinner at El Paraiso per spinifex's recommendation. I'll report back if I manage to get into the rally (the line is several blocks long.) I'm wearing a light blue tshirt with a red octopus on it if any Mefites want to say hi.

I hope you enjoyed it!

The line is super long; I'm sitting by the end of it. They're definitely going to be over capacity.

I've also been giving Mexican restaurant recommendations to random Trump supporters all afternoon.
posted by spinifex23 at 6:05 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Most recently, fighting off criticism that the leaks are biased against the Democratic Party, Assange claimed WikiLeaks does indeed have data on Donald Trump but that it's difficult to make a splash with it due to the increasingly outspoken nature of the GOP nominee.

So Assange says he has Trump data and he's sitting on it? Says it all, doesn't it?
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:06 PM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

Is the trip to Mexico the "explosive development"?

Weaaak. I mean, it's weird, yes - but Trump has been vomiting seventeen flavors of weird before breakfast for months. This doesn't even make the top 10.

"Explosive" would be, like, hard evidence of Trump's complicity with Russia, or a leaked copy of his tax returns with clear evidence of shenanigans, or medical records showing that Clinton has terminal boneitis. By 2016 standards, an inexplicable last-minute trip to Mexico is just Tuesday. THANKS A LOT, ROBERT COSTA, NOW ALL THIS POPCORN IS GOING TO GET COLD AND STALE
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:09 PM on August 30, 2016 [21 favorites]

So I have a family member who's a US citizen but lives more or less permanently outside the country. Is she eligible to vote in the presidential election, and if so, where does she request a ballot from?
posted by arcolz at 6:09 PM on August 30, 2016

Washington Post: Trump Considers Meeting in Mexico
posted by kingless at 6:11 PM on August 30, 2016

By 2016 standards, an inexplicable last-minute trip to Mexico is just Tuesday.

Donald Trump is M. Bison? That explains so much!
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

The US consulate should be able to help with that, arcolz.
posted by peppermind at 6:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Rubio wins Florida Senate primary, but fight ahead to keep seat

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio won the Republican nomination for Senate on Tuesday night, a result that enhances Republicans chances of retaining that seat and the Senate majority.

The former presidential candidate easily beat businessman Carlos Beruff in early GOP returns and will face Democratic Rep. Patrick Murphy in November, according to Associated Press projections. Murphy dispatched fellow congressman Alan Grayson in the Democratic primary, the AP reported.

In the banner House primary, Florida Democratic Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was leading college professor Tim Canova in early returns. Canova raised $3.3 million in mostly small-dollar donations from supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign who were aggrieved over Wasserman-Schultz’s handling of the presidential race in her former role as Democratic national chairwoman.

Now might be a good time for Democratic leadership to start giving these newly minted Republican primary victors a nice heavy Donald shaped necklace.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Expats are eligible to vote, if they're American citizens. There's a mail-in process. No doubt somebody around here has first-hand experience to share. But yeah, visiting a consulate or embassy would be a good first step. Also, I bet Googling "American expatriate voting [location]" would get them a .gov with some information.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:16 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I suppose he's just keen to get some sort of Mexican agreement to even just talk about this wall, so he can make it sound something less than one hundred percent prime Trumpcray in his big immigration policy speech. Perhaps with a side order of 'doing prez things'.

Which is, um, well. mildly entertaining?
posted by Devonian at 6:17 PM on August 30, 2016

Expats are eligible to vote, if they're American citizens. There's a mail-in process.

Sometimes it's a web process. Which is worrying with the hacking, lately.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:18 PM on August 30, 2016

Now might be a good time for Democratic leadership to start giving these newly minted Republican primary victors a nice heavy Donald shaped necklace.

It's interesting. Here in Indiana, pretty much every ad for Republicans hang Hillary around the necks of their Democratic challengers. As far as I can tell, none of the Democrats' ads ever mention Trump.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hahahaha, the press probably killed his Big Presedential News Cycle by leaking the story of his trip before it was finalized, and now we've apparently killed a major Isis commander, and you just know that's gonna be the thing that sets him off into a temper tantrum.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:22 PM on August 30, 2016

arcolz, you piqued my curiosity so I poked around a little and found this government page on overseas voting, which seems like a good place to start poking more directedly.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:23 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

So someone who has never worked gets SSI, you know how much that is a month? About $700. $700 a month to live on. Who of these people in trailer parks with their teeth rotting out getting $700 a month are cutting in front of ANYONE? They are BARELY SUBSISTING. They are at the back of the fucking line. Fuck they're not even IN line. Meanwhile welders making $100K a year are complaining about these people.

So there's two things I think are really important to understand about this. First - at least when I was doing social service/homeless services work, the majority of people I saw who had SSI (who had regular social workers) were often able to get SSI for the kids as well. So more common than one person alone with 700$ SSI, was a family of three or four, collecting between 2K and 3K a month.

Why does that matter, you ask? Well, because it brings into the second point - 2-3K a month begins to approach not just entry but post-entry wages for the skilled blue collar professions. -25K to 35K a year. That welder who is making 100K a year didn't start out like that. While learning the trade, they get shit pay, and only if they jump through all the hoops the union demands and work for quite a while do they start seeing even working-class money, much less serious money.

So it's definitely not jumping the line straight to the 100K place, but it's jumping over that time of maybe making 1K a month while you learn the trade, straight to the "post immediate entry" wages area. And it's important to note that for a lot of people, those starvation wages while they learned the trade are an important part of their narrative - it's how they sacrificed and sweated and why they now feel they deserve to make what they're making.

So if you envision their narrative as a line - Step 1, starvation wages, Step 2, barely past dirt poverty wages, Step 3, comfortable working/middle class, it's more like jumping to Step 2, rather than cutting all the steps out. And even though there's no way to get from Step 2 to Step 3, I think it often seems like you're calling Step 3 Welder a shmuck for sacrificing through Step 1 and working hard for Step 2, because he could have got it, instead, in his eyes, by holding out his hand.

From what I've seen, at least it's not really the guys who went straight into 100K a year who have issues with people collecting SSI/welfare. Those guys know they live better, and the gulf feels huge. It seems to, largely, be the guys who are immediately above on the ladder, who clawed themselves out of poverty by the sweat of their brow, who are mortally offended more often.

And that's kind of the thing I don't really know how to describe about Trump voters. We've seen stuff that shows that they're not all working class now, but I'd love to see this broken down into things like "Have you ever made less than 35K in a job?"
posted by corb at 6:24 PM on August 30, 2016 [52 favorites]

Expat American here. I vote as an expat through the last place I was registered to vote in America. They send me a ballot and I do it by mail. I set it all up before leaving, though, and you're required to vote in the last place you were registered (for me that's Colorado, which luckily is a swing state, but if you were last in CA then that's where your vote will be counted).

If you hadn't set it up before you left America I'm sure there's a way to do so from overseas, but probably the thing to do would be to check with the embassy for how.
posted by forza at 6:24 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

And that's kind of the thing I don't really know how to describe about Trump voters

Huh. I hadn't thought of it this way before, but I think people are usually most contemptuous of the things closest to them--the last stage they out grew, the last bad relationship they avoided, the last obstacle they overcame.

Well, that's depressing.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

Wasn't somebody on these threads involved with campaigning in West Virginia?

If so, could you MeMail me?

I've tried searching the threads but can't find you.

Thanks!
posted by kristi at 6:29 PM on August 30, 2016

It's interesting. Here in Indiana, pretty much every ad for Republicans hang Hillary around the necks of their Democratic challengers. As far as I can tell, none of the Democrats' ads ever mention Trump.

It's a deliberate strategy from the Clinton campaign directed down. They want to make Trump into the other, uniquely terrible, so that "reasonable Republicans" have a reason to back her. Even now they're unwilling to tie Trump to every Republican policy that he's merely repeating with more stupider words, in hopes that someday, Paul Ryan will give her the bipartisan hug she's always wanted.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

kudos to those of you braving the rally tonight... i thought about it for a while and decided i'd rather tear off my own leg and beat myself to death with it.
posted by palomar at 6:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Also, I bet Googling "American expatriate voting [location]" would get them a .gov with some information.

Thanks, Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The, that was the perfect suggestion! I found the U.S. Embassy website for her location which linked to the Federal Voting Assistance Program. It has state by state links for absentee voting.
posted by arcolz at 6:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Everett Rally Livestream (I can't remember if this particular channel is the stream with the guitars or the Wagner...)
posted by mochapickle at 6:31 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh by the way guys - I had to go to the doctor today, and they were playing Fox News. It was legitimately horrifying. Things like "What will Hillary Clinton do? I mean, Trump is giving a speech on immigration, and she will have NO SPEECH ON IMMIGRATION, this is clearly a GAME CHANGER." Also a lot about fucking Huma Abedin, followed by talking heads saying why it's totally fair game, but also how Clinton will be hampered by it forever. Also a lot of shit about "PROVOCATIONS BY IRAN: Did Obama and Clinton endanger sailor's lives?"

I mean, I am pretty inoculated against this stuff, but I swear to you, if all I had was a diet of this crap and I didn't know it was bullshit, I would have come away with this convinced that Clinton was about to fail because she's basically Neville Chamberlain.
posted by corb at 6:31 PM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

Tomorrow's speech:

TRUMP: "My fellow Americans, I just got back from a trip and I have some disturbing news! Hillary doesn't want you to know this! Are you ready? Ya wanna hear it? OK, here goes, MEXICO REALLY EXISTS! Can you believe that? Yeah, I thought it was just a thing from cartoons, what's the guys name, I think he's a mouse or something, Speedy Gonzales? Well, it's not just a cartoon. It's a real place and you're not gonna like this, but I gotta tell ya... IT'S FULL OF MEXICANS! I talked to their President and guess what? HE'S A MEXICAN TOO!

CHANT: "Build that wall! Build that wall!"

[fake but I wouldn't be surprised]
posted by mmoncur at 6:32 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's a deliberate strategy from the Clinton campaign directed down. They want to make Trump into the other, uniquely terrible, so that "reasonable Republicans" have a reason to back her. Even now they're unwilling to tie Trump to every Republican policy that he's merely repeating with more stupider words, in hopes that someday, Paul Ryan will give her the bipartisan hug she's always wanted.

I'm expecting her to switch hard after the debates. I think she's playing to pull the Republican Party apart - and the first part of doing that is to give a lot of opportunities for people to jump ship. And then dropping the anchor on them - but not before you've grabbed the reachable ones.
posted by Francis at 6:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

It seems to, largely, be the guys who are immediately above on the ladder, who clawed themselves out of poverty by the sweat of their brow, who are mortally offended more often.

According to a Facebook screed from my personal Uncle Herbert figure, he's always seeing black people selling their EBT for cash, which proves his point that minorities "don't contribute as much" to this country as white people. He's doing okay for himself, but it's the nearness of the bitterness that seems to be inside him, since he lives in a white-minority area. Somehow it's just an affront to him personally. I'm working on practicing radical empathy for his views, which is just the kind of pampered grad-school liberal bullshit I would believe I needed to do, but nonetheless.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

I love Joe in Australia's comment here and love that it brought up the Supreme Court thread. Article link for full context.

I may have jumped out of some of the election threads too early (so many thousands of comments!), but this is not something I have seen seriously discussed until now.

“It only makes sense,” Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley wrote just hours after Scalia’s death, “that we defer to the American people who will elect a new president to select the next Supreme Court Justice.” With a Hillary Clinton presidency looming, however, Grassley has changed his mind—conceding on Monday that he might allow hearing for Obama nominee Merrick Garland during the post-election lame duck session.

Sens. Jeff Flake and Orrin Hatch have both supported hearings during the lame duck session.* Flake explicitly stated that he would support lame duck hearings only if “we lose the election in November.” In that case, the senator explained, “we ought to approve [Garland] quickly” given his moderate record: “I’m certain that he’ll be more conservative than a Hillary Clinton nomination, come January.”

I am sure this happens on both sides of the aisle, but saying a lame-duck president should not nominate an SC, despite the constitutional obligation to do so? And, that Obama chose a (from my limited understanding) fairly centrist candidate?

I cannot possibly see a "victory" for the Republicans, and can only see multiple ways the Dems can essentially (pardon my phrasing) stick it to them.

1. Repubs lose Senate and Obama agrees with their logic. "You are all lame-ducks now, too and you should not confirm our next SC justice. I withdraw my nomination."

2. Obama says, "I have given you twice the time to review this SC appointee. You have roadblocked. I withdraw the nomination and here is my next choice."

(Next choice being much more liberal. I don't have the exact dates, but come election day/inauguration it will be a pretty spell longer.)

3. "A 'lame-duck' president is still in charge for four years. Just as 'lame-duck' senators should legislate out their term instead of stalling on important work. In fact, earning a second term should be a sign that the POTUS is doing the job of the American People and they want the POTUS to do it for four more years. Confirm or deny, Senators. Do not hold up the process for partisan reasons.

(I am not a D.C. insider. I don't want to see it "stuck" to anyone. It just seems like politics are currently playing out this way, and I think Obama with his "rhymes with bucket" urge right now, has several ways to get discourse back on track.)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Wasn't somebody on these threads involved with campaigning in West Virginia?

I remember reading comments from someone in southwest Virginia?
posted by LionIndex at 6:38 PM on August 30, 2016

Wait corb your doctor's office plays Fox News?

Yes, but my doctor's office is my local military hospital, so it's both more and less terrifying.
posted by corb at 6:40 PM on August 30, 2016 [21 favorites]

Washington Post: Trump Considers Meeting in Mexico

hey does anyone know if Mexico has laws against hate speech
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wait corb your doctor's office plays Fox News?

Every doctor's office I ever go to has Fox News on. Dentists, too. Hell, damned near any business with a tv in the waiting room has Fox News on.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [20 favorites]

My dentist plays the Food Network.
posted by box at 6:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

Here in Mississippi, I have never been in a doctor's office of any kind that did NOT have Fox News on constantly. It's terrible.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Merrick Garland has been an absolute trooper in the face of appalling public treatment, he's a terrific jurist, and he has earned that damn seat. Pulling out the rug from under him now would be a lousy thing to do.
posted by EarBucket at 6:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

Wait corb your doctor's office plays Fox News?

This is super common in many parts of the US.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

So there's two things I think are really important to understand about this. First - at least when I was doing social service/homeless services work, the majority of people I saw who had SSI (who had regular social workers) were often able to get SSI for the kids as well. So more common than one person alone with 700$ SSI, was a family of three or four, collecting between 2K and 3K a month.

These numbers do not match the easily obtainable data on SSI income to multirecipient households shown in Table 1 (page 4) of this PDF. For three and four-recipient households, the annual SSI payments for the entire household in 2012 were ~$18k and $26k per year, nowhere near the $25-$35k range you're citing, and barely above federal poverty guidelines for households of that size.

Considering that non-couple multi-recipient households constitute just one in six households (numbers here), you appear to be grossly misrepresenting both the incidence of this kind of benefit arrangement and the actual benefits received by those who do have children/other family members drawing additional SSI benefits.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [44 favorites]

There's a shocking number of businesses that have a TV in the lobby or waiting room or whatever that are tuned 24/7 to Fox News. I think some of it is because a lot of business owners are (naturally) right-wing cranks and because if you're the sort of person to throw a public temper tantrum about what's on the TV in the waiting room, it's probably Fox News that you're upset about seeing something other than.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

My dentist just gives out the controller both in the waiting room and for the tvs on their ceilings.
posted by Jalliah at 6:44 PM on August 30, 2016

I'm increasingly glad Clinton got the nomination instead of Sanders. His organization has essentially collapsed and DWS just won her primary against their #1 guy, Tim Canova. I think Sanders is great where he is in the Senate but it's clear running a Presidential campaign, much less the actual Presidency, would have been out of his wheelhouse.

Still 100x better than Trump.

But Clinton is 500x better.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on August 30, 2016 [34 favorites]

spinifex23: I hope you enjoyed it!

It was delicious.

We're in line now but I'm guessing we won't get in. We did see GoodSpaceGuy in line (I think it was him, he had a nametag). I half expected there to be a significant minority of liberal spies like us, given the proximity of Seattle, but based on hats and tshirts I'd say it's at least 90% actual supporters.
posted by fermion at 6:49 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

His organization has essentially collapsed and DWS just won her primary against their #1 guy, Tim Canova.

I suspect there was some horse trading going on there. Bernie pulled out all his support for Canova at almost the exact same time Hillary went down to campaign for DWS. Maybe in a few years, when someone writes a book about this election and this period in the history of the DNC, we'll find out more about what actually went down.
posted by xyzzy at 6:51 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Watching livestream and there are empty seats.... They did the national anthem half an hour ago, not sure why they are not filling in more quickly.
posted by mochapickle at 6:51 PM on August 30, 2016

(Also, as a side note, I've been re-watching The West Wing. The episode I just finished was "Let Bartlet be Bartlet." Did Lewandowski get his political strategy from a tv show?)
posted by xyzzy at 6:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh God. I hadn't actually seen most of the LePage stuff, and then I just saw the segment on Maddow, and HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

I think this goes beyond "racially charged," Maddow.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:54 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm increasingly glad Clinton got the nomination instead of Sanders.

I don't know. Sanders would have flummoxed the usual suspects, been palatable to the base, and attractive to disaffected white voters.

It's a moot point, but he oddly has fewer narratives to dismiss (OK, not so odd since he represents a state that had fallen off R radar.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:54 PM on August 30, 2016

It's probably still empty due to screening. The line is still blocks long outside.
posted by spinifex23 at 6:55 PM on August 30, 2016

Watching livestream and there are empty seats.... They did the national anthem half an hour ago, not sure why they are not filling in more quickly.

The line is still very long, and moving pretty slow. Not sure why, maybe because of security?
posted by fermion at 6:55 PM on August 30, 2016

Heh, hi, spinifex! Are you at the turnaround point?
posted by fermion at 6:57 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I mean, I am pretty inoculated against this stuff, but I swear to you, if all I had was a diet of this crap and I didn't know it was bullshit, I would have come away with this convinced that Clinton was about to fail because she's basically Neville Chamberlain.

What a crock of shit. If you were on a diet of that crap and didn't know it was bullshit you'd have no fucking clue on who Neville Chamberlain actually was.

Hell, I only know who he is because my WW2 lesson was Churchill fighting Hitler rather than Pearl Habour.
posted by Talez at 6:57 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am sure this happens on both sides of the aisle, but saying a lame-duck president should not nominate an SC, despite the constitutional obligation to do so? And, that Obama chose a (from my limited understanding) fairly centrist candidate?

"Lame duck" always meant the final few months of a term between the presidential election and the new president's inauguration. Until Obama, when Republicans decided it meant at least the entirety of his second term, and possibly most of his first.
posted by one_bean at 6:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

If our new dealership has a lobby area with a TV tuned to Fox all goddamned day we're gonna have a FUCKING PROBLEM
posted by wallabear at 6:59 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Jeebus, it's hard to find a stream that's not just fucking annoying.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:01 PM on August 30, 2016

Tomorrow is Trump's big immigration speech, yes? What's the over-under on how long after the speech his says something which completely contradicts the speech. I'm going with 8 hours.
posted by Justinian at 7:02 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ha, I was just about to ask, CHT. This Right Side Broadcasting one is the one with the guitars.
posted by mochapickle at 7:03 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Thanks, one_bean. I am just now remembering that from decades ago in civics class in High School. I guess that is one of the reasons I was bothered by the SC nomination being ignored. Obama had a full year left in office or so? And they were claiming lame duck?

Something always sat wrong with me using that argument this year.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:03 PM on August 30, 2016

you appear to be grossly misrepresenting both the incidence of this kind of benefit arrangement and the actual benefits received by those who do have children/other family members drawing additional SSI benefits.

From what I saw - from my point of view, which I don't claim is universal - specifically working in homeless prevention services for families - the most common arrangement was unmarried families that could not afford to get married because they would lose their benefits. I know those numbers inside and out, because I was trying to find people housing on that income. I'm not saying people were living large on that money! I'm saying that those incomes were often equal or superior to those of the working poor, most often existing barely above minimum wage.

And God, we caught a lot of flak from what I am just realizing now are probably now Trump voters. White guys who would scream at us over the phone and call us racial slurs for not helping them - guys who were legitimately struggling, but also not legitimately as much as our clients. Like many social service agencies, we had prioritization based on additional factors that meant you were less likely to bounce back from homelessness - including structural and familial issues. White guys who had a house to go back to that they just didn't want to go back to were not as much of a priority as minority individuals with no familial support structure. Dudes who were like "I'm broke from all my child support" were not as much of a priority as women not receiving it.

There's a lot of people who aren't in poverty as the US defines it - which is ridiculously low when you account for rent prices and such - but who are still having a really hard time with things. Even if it's just by their own standards. That's a lot of resentment out there in this country.

I have, at least, the deluded hope that Clinton, when she wins, will try to reach an olive branch out to at least the people who can be reasoned with, and we'll all collectively try to put this toxic shit aside. I know people are kind of gleefully hoping she makes hay while the sun shines, but I just don't know how long we as a society can survive these things bleeding under the surface.
posted by corb at 7:04 PM on August 30, 2016 [58 favorites]

Re the upcoming debate...when was the last time Clinton and Trump were in the same room together? Will he call her "Crooked Hillary" to her face, or chicken out like a typical bully?

It's fascinating and bizarre that he said maybe Ivanka should play Clinton in debate prep. Trump seems to feel a visceral disgust for women he hates (e.g., the much maligned Rosie O'Donnell), in a way that I suspect would prevent him from ever even imagining Ivanka standing in for someone like that...weird.
posted by sallybrown at 7:05 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

This Right Side Broadcasting one is the one with the guitar

This dunce narrating for RSB is living "up" to all my worst stereotyped thoughts of Trump supporters.
posted by sallybrown at 7:07 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Tentatively offering this stream
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:07 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

And here's the one with the classical... I just could not with the Right Side Broadcasting one anymore.
posted by mochapickle at 7:09 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

RSB guy explained the music thing has to do with Youtube's strict music copyright enforcement
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hannity argharghargh my ears just burst and blood flew out like in an anime
posted by Yowser at 7:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

RSB guy explained the music thing has to do with Youtube's strict music copyright enforcement

Yes but there's no requirement to have hideous guitars. I'd even prefer him just humming the Battle Hymn of the Republic instead...
posted by mochapickle at 7:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

And here's yt the one with the classical...

I think that's the one that dubs Ride of the Valkyries when Trump enters. Still, one of the better choices if you're waiting.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:12 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

from my point of view, which I don't claim is universal

You didn't claim it it was universal, but you did use it to try to explain why people feel the way they do about people who draw government benefits:

Why does that matter, you ask? Well, because it brings into the second point - 2-3K a month begins to approach not just entry but post-entry wages for the skilled blue collar professions. -25K to 35K a year. That welder who is making 100K a year didn't start out like that.

For this scenario to make sense, they would have had to have seen the same numbers you did in your personal experience. Which is more likely, that, or that they're simply buying into the line-jumping "welfare queen" mythology that's been cooked up for decades by conservatives?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:14 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Warmup speaker at the rally is talking about Washington state going red this year. Like it has every year since 1988, except the opposite.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:14 PM on August 30, 2016

Here is a Fox stream. Not authorised, if it helps.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:16 PM on August 30, 2016

OH GOD THE WASHINGTON GOING RED THING. This is what the leaders of the Washington State Republican Party have sold out for - the promise that Eastern Washington is going to go red and save them from Seattle. It is not going to happen. Everyone sane knows it's not going to happen. But bless Susan Hutchinson's tiny deluded heart, she thinks it's going to happen and she's going to be the One Who Delivers It.

I will take a perverse joy when it goes blue as it was always going to go. YOU SOLD YOUR SOUL FOR NOTHING, FOOLS!
posted by corb at 7:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

Washington State is always red, outside of King County.

(Where all the people are)
posted by Artw at 7:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

Reince seems to have finally adapted to this most shameless version of himself.
posted by sallybrown at 7:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does Washington need to be protected from Oregon? I'm not sure what this guy is on about protecting our southern border.
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

I want to do an inverted remake of Rudy
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Reince Preibus - "Mike Pence and Donald Trump will tell you the truth."
Lol, fuck you Reince. His rhetoric about how the Republicans will save the country by electing Donald Trump is disgusting. I remember when he spoke in Wisconsin, Reince compared this election to the Revolutionary War. How delusional or shameless can you be?
posted by airish at 7:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Is it me, or does Giuliani get grinchier every time he makes an appearance?
posted by mochapickle at 7:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, joy. Sessions is next.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:22 PM on August 30, 2016

Does Washington need to be protected from Oregon? I'm not sure what this guy is on about protecting our southern border.

We're going to build a wall, and California is going to pay for it
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:24 PM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

Ahhhhh...according to Rudy, Trump is winning on enthusiasm, so the polls don't matter....
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:24 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

They're high on conspiracy

BENGHAZI. [real]

VINCENT FOSTER [real - 20 years ago]
posted by Yowser at 7:24 PM on August 30, 2016

Giuliani can keep 13 memos on his phone. Which doesn't leave his office.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:25 PM on August 30, 2016

"They'll protect our southern border" (coughfrombrownpeople)

Not a word about Lilly white Canucks
posted by Yowser at 7:26 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

We're going to build a wall, and California is going to pay for it

#PNWCampaignPromises
posted by corb at 7:26 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

I want to do an inverted remake of Rudy

*lays "Make America Great Again" hat on Coach Priebus's desk*
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 PM on August 30, 2016

Rudy is an ugly hate machine
posted by Yowser at 7:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Oh god, they brought Guiliani

he's gradually turning into a nosferatu, right? it's not just me?

is there a PredictIt.org pool on whether he'll instinctively eat a bug live on tv?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [32 favorites]

Not a word about Lilly white Canucks

Nobody has told Trump just how many Chinese are in Vancouver?
posted by Talez at 7:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

HILLARY IS A WARMONGER!
TRUMP WILL TAKE OUT THE AYATOLLAH IF THEY FUCK WITH US!
posted by Talez at 7:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Rudy is outright fucking delusional.
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm probably late to this, but doesn't Giuliani look like a kid who has been let loose in the candy shop? He's increasingly less tentative.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:30 PM on August 30, 2016

My stream just panned and showed Mario and Luigi in the back of the crowd. Princess Peach doesn't have time for this bullshit.
posted by airish at 7:31 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Rudy feasts on the corpse of 9/11
posted by Yowser at 7:31 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

....And he storms off to Ride of the Valkyries. Not even a wave to the crowd.
posted by mochapickle at 7:32 PM on August 30, 2016

There are less people at this rally than at an Everett Silvertips game, that's for sure
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Washington State is always red, outside of King County.

(Where all the people are)

Nah, it's more than just King County. Pretty much all counties west of the Cascades go for Democrats these days. Here are the county-by-county results from 2012, for example.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:34 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trimp to Mexico confirmed. Please keep him Mexico.
posted by cashman at 7:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump is going to Mexico.

ETA: like a horrible orange Ernest reboot.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Does he know the president of Mexico is Mexican? Someone should break it to him.
posted by mochapickle at 7:37 PM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

I can't liveblog this, so step up.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:38 PM on August 30, 2016

Thanks to these threads, I realised there isn't anything I'd rather do during my One Day In America than make some calls for Hillary, meet some nice folks, and contribute (however microscopically) to defeating the racist pile of wet Cheetos.

I stand inspired by my fellow Commonwealth member! I will be in New York City for a week next month and will spend a day making calls on behalf of Clinton. I will contribute my Canadian efforts to defeating the Yam That Walks Like A Man.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:39 PM on August 30, 2016 [17 favorites]

Trump is going to Mexico.

My eyes are rolling so much right now.

Remember when Mitt went to the UK and tried to be, like, a diplomat or some shit? (Or the last time Trump went abroad and pissed off the locals so much Samantha Bee had to get David Tennant to read the angry tweets?)

Me desculpa, Mexico.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:39 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

I just don't know how long we as a society can survive these things bleeding under the surface.

I agree with this and yet I don't know if it's politically fixable. I think it taps into what you might call American Civic Calvinism, which manifests itself in a few different ways, mostly around the common belief that poverty (and illness) is a marker of moral failure and affluence (and access to good healthcare) is aligned with righteousness. I mean, Trump basically has a black prosperity gospel preacher as his God-man right now.

Trumpism from Trump is a kind of extreme version, a bit like the splinter-Calvinists who decided that if they sincerely believed in predestination, they could live however the fuck they wanted and it'd be up to God how they spent eternity, but having that sincere belief was probably a marker that they were among the elect.
posted by holgate at 7:40 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

He's claiming the crowd is Yuge, just not inside yet, but he'd rather get on with it than wait for them to hear him
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:40 PM on August 30, 2016

Please keep him Mexico.

Please turn him back at border control as an undesirable, Mexico.
posted by holgate at 7:41 PM on August 30, 2016

Mexican media reporting president has no plans to meet with trump tomorrow?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Apparently, if he does try to negotiate any deals with Peña Nieto, he could be committing a felony under the Logan Act.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

Is Trump sure it was President Nieto who invited him? Maybe it's a trap.
posted by mmoncur at 7:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh please let him have an heretofore unbeknownst second citizenship, and that the U.S. border decides to send him there because of his 3500+ and counting lawsuits.

One can dream.
posted by Yowser at 7:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

He seems tired.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

DJT:
- We're going to win Washington state
- We're leading in FL and NC, that LA Times Poll
- Our victory is for the people, for every citizen not heard, not for the journalists (boooooo), lobbyists, special interests who are funding and controlling hillary
- We're going to create the "new american future" - jobs (quickly, believe me), infrastructure, "our country is going to hell!", welfare families will have jobs, gov't will be lean and mean "with a big fat beautiful heart"
posted by mochapickle at 7:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

does anyone in the trump campaign speak spanish
posted by murphy slaw at 7:45 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Infrastructure is crumbling, lean and mean government (with a warm heart) will put welfare families to work rebuilding our inner cities for the african american community that has been neglected....or soemething
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:46 PM on August 30, 2016

DJT:
- Border protected, children safe!
- Democrats have taken advantage of AA, taking their votes and giving nothing in return; will rebuild inner cities, safety and peace
- American values and culture will be celebrated!
- Insiders are liars! I KNOW them!
PROTESTER BREAK! I AM IMAGINING SOME SORT OF DANCE PARTY
posted by mochapickle at 7:47 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Looks like Trump found the remaining batch of quaaludes.
posted by Yowser at 7:47 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Via Katy Tur: Mexico's Presidential account confirms the meeting. Trump accepted the invitation and will meet w Nieto privately.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:47 PM on August 30, 2016

First protesters thrown out, into Oakes and Hewitt, to adoring crowd.
posted by spinifex23 at 7:48 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

Looks like Trump found the remaining batch of quaaludes.

Or his Dr. Feelgood is suddenly experiencing some extra scrutiny and he's temporarily out of his usual uppers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Why is he talking about inner city blight in Everett washington? and the plight of AA's? He's clueless
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:50 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why does he keep turning around?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 PM on August 30, 2016

DJT:
- Law enforcement and police (woooooo!)
- Millions of AAs have succeeded, done SO much! We should celebrate that success, but we must also talk about the millions suffering in disastrous conditions in inner cities - poverty, drugs, violence... No group in USA has been more harmed by people in power.
- HRC's immigration policy brings in illegal immigrants and refugees who take jobs away from AAs and hispanic citizens who want those jobs!
- We don't know where they come from!
- Asking for every AA and hispanic vote
posted by mochapickle at 7:50 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why does he keep turning around?

Twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
posted by mmoncur at 7:51 PM on August 30, 2016 [24 favorites]

Why would the president of Mexico entertain this hatemonger? This is terrible. I can only hope this backfires against Trump spectacularly. But I think we're all cringing at the thought that somehow he'll play along with Trump.

It's like when you read about an IRS scam and you warn your loved ones. Then you have a family member who picks up the phone and says "Oh it's the IRS" and starts reciting their social security number. You race over and hang up the phone before the scam artist can get the whole number. Somebody needs to beat Trump over there and tip off Nieto.
posted by cashman at 7:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

DJT:
- [Dang, CHT, this liveblogging is not easy!]
- Democratic policies have produced ONLY poverty joblessness broken schools rising crime. They don't care about you! They have used you for decades and will continue to use you!
- Litany of AA stats (poverty, employment, half of Detroit residents do not work, etc)
- War torn countries safer than our inner cities!
posted by mochapickle at 7:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Millions of AAs have succeeded, done SO much! We should celebrate that success, but we must also talk about the millions suffering in disastrous conditions in inner cities - poverty, drugs, violence... No group in USA has been more harmed by people in power.

Conway has been doing her job, I see. "Mr. Trump, this portrayal of communities of color as hell holes is not polling well. Can you, like, say something nice about black people?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

For real, what does Nieto possibly get out of this?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

seems like only yesterday that peña nieto compared trump to hitler and mussolini
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

He's going to go after the gangs, with police, to end poverty
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:54 PM on August 30, 2016

Why would the president of Mexico entertain this hatemonger? This is terrible.

You're not actually supposed to accept these sorts of invitations. Trump is being a gauche idiot. He is clearly Ask Culture.
posted by Justinian at 7:55 PM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

DJT:
- Will appoint best judges, prosecutors
- If you keep voting for same people, will keep getting same horrible results. HRC has been doing this for 35 years and NOTHING has happened (boooo)
- What do you have to lose? I will fix it. I will fix it. They won't fight for you. You will gain jobs, opportunity, security, safety, education and "many many other things"
posted by mochapickle at 7:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Nieto's approval ratings at 23%. What do you think he could get out of this meeting? /sarcasm
posted by Sophie1 at 7:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

seems like only yesterday that peña nieto compared trump to hitler and mussolini

What the hell. And then you meet with the guy?
posted by cashman at 7:56 PM on August 30, 2016

surely what the african american community has been crying out for is more aggressive policing
posted by murphy slaw at 7:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

For real, what does Nieto possibly get out of this?

A suitcase full of cash from Russia?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

Meanwhile on the HRC side:

Clinton names Warren ally to transition team

Hillary Clinton has named a progressive with close ties to Elizabeth Warren to her transition team in a move that seems aimed at mollifying liberals unhappy with earlier choices.

POLITICO has learned that Rohit Chopra, who battled for-profit colleges and loan servicers as the student loan ombudsman at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, has joined the team.

posted by Chrysostom at 7:56 PM on August 30, 2016 [15 favorites]

Why does he keep turning around?

It's finally the pivot. Literally.
posted by chris24 at 7:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

- War torn countries safer than our inner cities!
Soon to announce that Syria will begin accepting refugees from Detroit...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Nieto's approval ratings at 23%. What do you think he could get out of this meeting?

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE
posted by rp at 7:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [14 favorites]

DJT:
- Feed blip
- New article coming out: "Black Lives Matter to Donald Trump"
- School choice will make a difference - schools that parents believe will give kids the best shot at success. All children will be part of the american dream.
- "GOP is the party of Abraham Lincoln! Not bad! Not bad!"
- Democratic party is the party of slavery, jim crow, and opposition!
- WHAT A GREAT CROWD
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

"Is there anyplace better to be...than a Trump rally?" huh.
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:59 PM on August 30, 2016

he could be committing a felony under the Logan Act.

Didn't seem to hurt Tom Cotton.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

If Nieto plays this right and (figuratively) sucker punches Trump, he could be the most popular president in Mexico's history.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:01 PM on August 30, 2016 [30 favorites]

DJT:
- We will bring hope to every forgotten stretch of this country, one american nation, one united people, and we will have ONE REALLY GREAT FUTURE AGAIN.
- The great future will be built on JOBS JOBS JOBS. Manufacturing was hurt by hillary clinton's policies! We're not going to let jobs go to other countries anymore - there will be retribution, there will be a PRICE to pay!
- Renegotiating NAFTA and staying out of TPP (total disaster), stand up to China. "We're not going to be ripped off any longer." USA USA USA
posted by mochapickle at 8:02 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

- New article coming out: "Black Lives Matter to Donald Trump"

"We don't believe you, you need more people."
posted by cashman at 8:04 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm really glad no one but us nerds and the already Trump diehards watch these rallies because he's clearly pivoting to the part of the con where he just says any damn thing he thinks that someone somewhere wants to hear (spoiler: he's actually wrong and it's a trap). But I think there's probably a lot of people who are looking for any excuse to feel okay about pulling the R lever and just hearing the guy being like "I can do compassionate conservatism! Look! I'm doing it right now!!! (Is this how you do it? Am I doing the words right?)" might be enough to tip them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:05 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

"Black Lives Matter to Donald Trump"

Further evidence in the "Donald Trump is a narcissist who only regards the world as a reflection of himself" case file.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

DJT:
- PROTESTERS!
- Bernie's protesters were much better!
- Taxes: Massive tax relief to all working people, lower tax rate for small bix from 35% to 15%; low and mid income parents can deduct cost of childcare
- Identify and remove all job-killing regulations
- Trade deficit is now nearly 800bn. Who negotiates these deals? Political hacks and politicians!
- American energy revolution lifting regulations on coal and gas, will create millions of jobs and lower your electric bill ("and every other bill for the american household!")
- We will secure border and talk about that in AZ tomorrow
posted by mochapickle at 8:07 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wait, did he just do a promo for his big, big speech, tomorrow night in Arizona, tomorrow night, big speech on immigration?

What the fuck is this. This is only the second one of his things I've watched in its entirety. I just can't fucking believe it. And here comes "The Snake."
posted by rp at 8:08 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

DJT:
- Drugs pouring across border that most people haven't heard of!
- We are going to stop syrian refugees from entering; will build safe zone overseas
- Amazingly, HRC wants a 550% increase in syrian refugees coming in (booooooo)
- The SNAKE! Should I do it or not? OK, this has to do with people coming into our country, gov't says they have paperwork, they don't have paperwork. We have to help the people in syria, but look what's happening in Germany, what "she's" done to germany. Paris is no longer paris.
posted by mochapickle at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

DJT:
- "Bad, bad things are going to happen. It's just a matter of when."
- Did you see they announced today 10s of 1000s coming in and we have no idea where they are being relocated.
- SNAKE POEM
posted by mochapickle at 8:11 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

DJT:
- "OH SHUT UP, SILLY WOMAN" He pauses. (Cheeeeers)
posted by mochapickle at 8:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

2016: Bad, bad things are going to happen. It's just a matter of when.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Taxes: Massive tax relief to all working people
Isn't that in direct contradiction to his public Economic Policy white paper that was 100% trickle-down?

"Bad, bad things are going to happen. It's just a matter of when."
That's his ultimate out if he's elected - "I didn't cause all these bad bad things happening, I just couldn't stop them in time"
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:14 PM on August 30, 2016

This snake thing. It's gotta just be for the "oh shut up, silly woman" line.

"Bad deal, folks. Bad, bad deal."
posted by rp at 8:14 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Dang, CHT, this liveblogging is not easy!

No. No it's not. You're doing a yeoman's job.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:16 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Why hasn't every political cartoonist with a conscience done one of Trump IS The Snake? (That hair couldn't look any worse on a python)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:17 PM on August 30, 2016

DJT:
- Vote for me Nov 8, we're not taking 'em in (USA USA USA)
- Foreign policy: HRC has made one bad decision after another. I opposed Iraq. Most disastrous tenure in US history, she was horrible. World so much better before HRC was Sec of State (Iraq, Syria, ISIS, Iran, 400million cash ransom!) Legacy of HRC is death, destruction, terrorism, and weakness!
- We have crowds, people who love our country!

- That's yeowoman to you, CHT ;)
posted by mochapickle at 8:17 PM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

maybe now is not the time, but with how fast this thread moves I'm worried you will miss / going to second that one should re-read corb's thoughts on wages and resentment

I'm from Louisiana, I've worked in living wage movements and I can say that that analysis is right on, but something I've never heard put that simply. But when pushing for higher wages, I was often lectured by ceos and administrators about the dangers of "wage compression" lowering morale within corporations and universities.

basically the wage compression argument is that you can't increase wages for poor people, or the people just above the poorest will be very resentful and form unions to push for more pay or work out seniority, etc.

To which I always thought, "well great! rising tide and boats and all that"

But the resentment part is very real--I had never thought of it in terms of how it would inform reactionary politics.
posted by eustatic at 8:18 PM on August 30, 2016 [24 favorites]

That's yeowoman to you, CHT ;)

Just so long as you can bend a longbow.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

DJT:
- HRC is all status quo
- HRC/Bill SPEECH MONEY!
- Foreign money going to Clinton Foundation, pay for play! (boooo) UBS, Russian Uranium, money missing from Haiti!
- HRC's public corruption is marked by HRC's 30,000 deleted emails. They're gone. (LOCK HER UP! terrifying from whole arena)
- HRC bleached? so no one can ever see them
- FBI found 1000s of emails, another 15000 emails discovered a few weeks ago, another 30 discovered this week -- emails about BENGHAZI. It just never ends -- there's one way to get justice in this TOTALLY RIGGED SYSTEM (repeat 4x)
posted by mochapickle at 8:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

WAIT
Hillary bleached her emails now? WTF?
posted by rp at 8:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is this snake thing [real]? I can't watch Trump anymore and appreciate those of you who can.
posted by corb at 8:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

We got in, surprisingly. Saw a protester get arrested for allegedly punching someone in the arm. Lots of empty seats still behind Trump.
posted by fermion at 8:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

But the resentment part is very real--I had never thought of it in terms of how it would inform reactionary politics.

Oh, yes, the resentment is definitely a factor, but when it comes to people resenting those who avail themselves of government handouts, it's far too often uninformed / misinformed resentment based on falsehoods about these programs promulgated by American supply-side conservatives. Simply noting that the resentment exists without understanding why it exists is at best an incomplete picture, and when paired with anecdotes about beneficiaries who receive benefits far above average, a misleading one.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

DJT:
- HRC is powerful protecting the powerful, insiders protecting the insiders; I'm fighting for you

I have no idea about the bleach thing. That was weird
The snake poem is totally real and he's done it several times now
posted by mochapickle at 8:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

corb, the snake thing is real. Like he reads it from a piece of paper. It's bizarre.

And horrifying.
posted by rp at 8:23 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

The welfare-based argument is crap, though. The majority of benefit dollars go to people who are already employed.
posted by Miko at 8:23 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

...I don't think even one thing in any of these live updates is true.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

DJT:
- Better economy, future, jobs
- I want to be your champion in the white house
- Together we will make america WEALTHY/STRONG again; we will fix depleted military and take care of our vets; we will appoint the proper judges to the US Supreme Court; we will protect and save "our beautiful" second amendment; we will repeal and replace "the horror known as obamacare"
- We will make america PROUD/SAFE/GREAT again

You can't always get what you want.
posted by mochapickle at 8:25 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

For those of you who are interested, Angela Corey lost her reelection bid tonight.
posted by wittgenstein at 8:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

You can't always get what you want

*exhales*
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Well at least he seems to have stopped the foamboards for now.
posted by mochapickle at 8:29 PM on August 30, 2016

Corb's comment(s) are exactly dead-on accurate to an experience my own family members' have had, my own neighbors have had, and that I have had.

I used to be a hard-core rural republican until I met people who were not the (only white, only conservative) struggling people I grew up with, and who were not the barely above the water, still desperate people who were my 'goals' in life. I honest to fuck did not realize that there were people worse off than me, I grew up on food stamps, food banks and thrift stores and we called it 'hardiness' whenever we acknowledged we were on the dole. We DID NOT DO THAT, however. I bought my first new clothes at 16, with a paycheck that was finally able to both feed me and clothe me more than rice-a-roni and salvo could. I'd been working at least 17 hrs/wk (maximum allowed by law.) since I was 13, working steady in some way since I was 11.
I honest to god had never been to or seen a place in the US (besides Pine Ridge, but that's a whole other 50-gallon drum of worms) worse than where I grew up until I went to DC in college, staying in a not-great part of it. I honest to fuck had never met a person who was not worse off than me whose parents were not felons or too addicted to drugs to work. This excused their suffering when I was young, but not now, and it stopped then. I'd only know children till then, and that's when I realized that that shit carries over far more than I thought.
I was 19 when this realization occurred. Everyone in my family who had anything, anything at all had gotten there by working their asses off. They benefited from gov't programs, but that was not talked about, as they had also mostly subsisted on plain pasta and lived in shitholes to get there. That was the focus. I did not realize that they had actually had a hand up that was biased because they were white men because even with that, most slipped back into generational poverty, and it didn't seem like we had an edge, but we did. We had a thumbhold. A pitiful thumbhold.

It's largely just that I mostly know shit-poor SD country kids working for nothing with no safety net, nothing in the future for them, no real goals beyond 'have a steady place to live' and 'don't starve', but god-almighty do I understand where they are coming from.
I'm blessed, motherfucking blessed, with a mind that cannot sleep without trying to fully understand what's going on in the world. I read, I try to educate myself about whatever I hear about. I got myself out of where I was in part because of that. I had the chance to be educated, and to travel for my education. I got to meet people who were not like me. I was the first person in my family to leave the US for reasons other than war since we got here. I was the first of us to even leave the midwest in the 100 years since my first blood relative got to our now 'home'. I was able to travel, I met and learned from people, and I'm only the better from it. I am a very lucky man.
I have friends, dear friends of my entire life, hardworking, skilled and dedicated people, soldiers, firefighters, teachers, EMTs, social workers, police and nurses, many of whom are for Trump, most of whom were offered little other choice for upwards mobility than working for the gov't in some capacity while being told to hate it by almost every media choice available, none of whom ever had the the chances I had. I am only differentiated by the chances I had, the places I went, and the people I met. I am, not matter what I believe, the product of SD farmers and laborers, just a product that had a chance to get out.

I hate what they say, I hate what they think, I hate who they vote for, but I have a hard time bringing myself to hate them. I was them. I was exactly as bad as them, and if I had not had amazing parents who worked their asses off (and also got lucky) to get me the opportunities I had, I would still be like them.

Not all hatred is brought on by innate hatred. Not all bigotry is based in entirely in things other than pain misdirected (by those who do not feel that pain.). As much as I was trained, even once I was a liberal, to distrust and hate Clinton and Dems, these folks got more of it, and most of them never got the chance to get outside the bubble that I did. They don't really know what else is going on in the country, but they know that they are suffering, and that the (fox) news tells them that liberals and POC are to blame.

I get that Trump's main support comes from the wealthier, but for the poor people I know who like Trump, he's one of the few people who does not make them feel like dirt for working a manual labor job, or for not people educated. They are entirely incorrect, but that is how they feel. That is how Trump makes them feel. Uplifted. They have never felt uplifted, and have never been more than an assumed base for the GOP. Trump is a drug, a dangerous drug, one that makes them feel worthy and energetic. Trump is the political meth of the rural poor. I regard his followers about the same way. They are tragically under-served people being sold a thing that might lead them out of that pain, no matter how much it hurts the community, no matter how much it hurts them.

Pain, pain is a powerful drug, and hating on the rural poor for latching onto it only helps to ignore the puppet-masters who set up this tableau in the first place. The (money-wise) poor people latching onto his words (I started writing this before his speech tonight.) are scared, lied to, and weak. They are victims, just victims who take out their victim-hood on the people they are told are the ones taking it away from them. They are double-fucked.

Fuck this election. I never thought I'd feel pity and sympathy for these assholes, but fucked if Trump doesn't bring me to it.
posted by neonrev at 8:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [144 favorites]

When this election is over, Trump's reading of "The Snake" is going to go into the pantheon of terrible dramatic readings right up there with William Shatner's version of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds".
posted by Reverend John at 8:30 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Angela Corey lost her reelection bid tonight.
"but sometimes... you get what you need..."
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:31 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump likes to read "The Snake" at his rallies. The author's family wants him to stop.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Reince seems to have finally adapted to this most shameless version of himself.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

The snake poem as read by Trump, if anyone missed it before...

It goes on for a while. Its basically the frog and the scorpion but longer and about a snake and a woman.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Be a hell of a note if Trump had Montezuma's revenge

Be a hell of a note if Pena Nieto had Trump impounded in a Mexican jail for questioning when something reportedly happens at a hotel or something. Or even make a big stink about wanting to so the State Department has to rescue him. Trump would be an idiot to cross the border into territory he's been dissing right and left right now.
posted by ctmf at 8:35 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

It goes on for a while. Its basically the frog and the scorpion but longer and about a snake and a woman.

My guess is Trump likes it over the frog/scorpion because he gets to blame a woman for being stupid. Also there's something sexual about the whole thing, and I have no doubt it plays into the alt-rights fetishistic racist fantasies about cuckolding.
posted by dis_integration at 8:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [23 favorites]

Apparently we were just in time for the last five minutes. Shame. It's been interesting people watching, anyway. There's a small protest behind the arena marching along with an escort of a dozen bicycle cops.
posted by fermion at 8:38 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

The meeting will occur, despite concerns from both Mexican security services and the U.S. Secret Service.

Yeah...could get interesting.
posted by Miko at 8:39 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

My guess is Trump likes it over the frog/scorpion because he gets to blame a woman for being stupid

Yup. It's pretty clear in his reading that Hilary is the "stupid woman"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:39 PM on August 30, 2016

Hillary bleached her emails now? WTF?

I think the bleach thing is a reference to this (Slate), where Trey Gowdy said that she used a file-deletion tool called BleachBit to delete some of her emails.
posted by ectabo at 8:40 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

> I was often lectured by ceos and administrators about the dangers of "wage compression" lowering morale within corporations and universities.

Dang though that analysis is Marx af. Like whenever I make arguments in those terms I feel like I'm playing the Marx stuff up too hard. But nope, the managerial class is Marxist: they understand that maintaining their positions of privilege requires manufacturing poverty.

> I hate what they say, I hate what they think, I hate who they vote for, but I have a hard time bringing myself to hate them. I was them. I was exactly as bad as them, and if I had not had amazing parents who worked their asses off (and also got lucky) to get me the opportunities I had, I would still be like them.

God damn but this was a good post. Sounds so much like the southern branch of my family it makes my teeth ache.

Fortunately, though, most of my southern relatives don't vote, and fortunately we can still have useful/entertaining conversations about politics if I play the Bay Area "let's be very precise about the differences between liberalism and leftism" game. they bitch about liberals, I bitch about liberals, everyone's happy.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:41 PM on August 30, 2016 [18 favorites]

More cops biking in to the intersection where the protesters are, Trump supporters yelling "Go get them! Lock them up!"
posted by fermion at 8:41 PM on August 30, 2016

Mexico isn't going to create an international incident

However, Mexico often has rather poor control over things that happen in Mexico.
posted by Miko at 8:42 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

For real, what does Nieto possibly get out of this?

Just a note for fellow anglos from someone who is like just ultimate white-bread so, like, it's with love: If you're using just one name for him, it should probably be Peña.

Hispanic names that are Firstname Surname Surname are usually Firstname Father's-surname Mother's-surname and if you were only going to use two names you'd usually go with Firstname Father's-surname. As with all things there are exceptions.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

Mexico isn't going to create an international incident

I would. Everything is a negotiation - what do I get in advance for not doing that? Hey, I just can't ignore allegations that Trump smuggled drugs in on his plane. I have to investigate that shit. That takes a few days. Ok, I'm being facetious.

But it does raise the question again, what does Pena Nieto think he's going to get from this, especially considering Trump is most likely going to lose?
posted by ctmf at 8:46 PM on August 30, 2016

I don't get the Snake thing. That was weird.
posted by bongo_x at 8:47 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I suppose mobs could descend on the airport or something

..or outside (non-Mexican) actors could wish to interfere outside US borders. I can understand why the Secret Service has reluctance.
posted by Miko at 8:48 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, I was promised something explosive.
posted by ctmf at 8:52 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

> I don't get the Snake thing. That was weird.

I believe it is useful to introduce the concept of "fractal wrongness" to this conversation. Something that is fractally wrong is equally wrong at every scale of resolution. You know how when you zoom in on the Mandelbrot set, you just keep seeing smaller and smaller copies of the entire Mandelbrot set?

You zoom in on "The Snake," and you see that that one little poem has all of the wrongness of the Trump campaign packed into it. Likely if you focused on the poem and its delivery line by line, you'd discover that each line was as wrong as the poem as a whole, which is as wrong as the rally that it's delivered at, which is as wrong as the Trump campaign. It's wrongness all the way down, with no bottom to it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:53 PM on August 30, 2016 [39 favorites]

Washington State is always red, outside of King County.

(Where all the people are)

"My favorite part of the night here in Missouri - dragging my mouse over the map and reminding myself that all of those 60-70% Republican counties have as many votes total as the most psychotic third party candidates will get in St. Louis or Kansas City."
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:57 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

"The Snake" is Trump's Mirror at its purest essence. Ask most people who fell for his cons in the Private Sector. Donald "Snake" Trump.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:57 PM on August 30, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yeah, it's deeply odd and unsettling that he recites a poem announcing his own sinister intent at his rallies. but that's fractal wrongness for you...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:00 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

where Trey Gowdy said that she used a file-deletion tool called BleachBit to delete some of her emails.

Had she used DBAN, Dimwit Gowdy III would think she'd nuked the server.
posted by holgate at 9:06 PM on August 30, 2016

man. squick isn't the half of it. there's this "Archduke Ferdinand" feel to thinking about the fallout of Trump getting assassinated in Mexico. Like I'm picturing his supporters absolutely positively 100% militia-ing up. it's no good.

I sort of want to tweet "stay safe, idiot" at him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:07 PM on August 30, 2016 [14 favorites]

Oh, come on, narco gangs have survived dozens of US, Mexican and trans-latin-american efforts to dissolve them (legally? Sometimes?), and that's not because we're bad at this, they are actually quite smart and know fuck-damned-well that assassinating Trump would mean what is basically (even more) open warfare against them, who cares what local gov't thinks. They are not, you know, fucking complete and total idiots.
posted by neonrev at 9:08 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yeah, just to be clear, I think it would be a Really Bad Thing if anything happened to him on this trip. I'm just saying that the secret service is probably right in that this trip might actually be a danger, and he probably shouldn't have arranged it.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:08 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

neonrev: Trump is the political meth of the rural poor.

Quoting for the truth.

I grew up in rural Ohio. Farmland. But the farmers were, in our parents' and grandparents' generations, able to send their super-grounded (no pun), smart, educated and ambitious kids off to colleges that were the ones demonized in the 80s and 90s as "liberal bastions." And they were the 'upper class' there-- there were the farmers, and the 'trailer park people.' And a few outliers, the "industry" people. Which is a big part of my upbringing, a remnant of the WWII economy-- steel, machining, shops, fittings, components. Who were definitely like the nuveau-riche, even though the industry was dying in the 60s and 70s and would be a blackened husk by the turn of the century.

The thing that pisses me off the most about the "not making people feel like dirt for working a manual labor job" is that we all worked manual labor jobs, and HE NEVER HAS. I ran huge CNC lathes with bar stock in high school. I did landscaping (more like land-shaping) in middle school, high school, and college. I've said this before, but Hillary's Made in America thing is great. And it should be a clarion for all of those people who, for whatever reason, want to believe that we still have a chance to build real things here, meaning infrastructure, not just product. And don't get me started on infrastructure vis a vis ecosystems, because the only ecosystems most of those people are concerned about are the ones inside the walls they have, and you gotta start somewhere. And maybe if we focused more on figuring out how the big picture affects the personal, how good ideas that benefit people because they benefit the environment, too, maybe we could get some real traction. I think one of the big benefits of the Dems' outreach portion of this campaign has been to show people who, 20 years ago, were flapping their arms about the spotted owl being protected instead of opening up logging are starting to see that progress doesn't mean fucking up the world for the grandkids they have now. Maybe it took those 25 years to get them to a point where they're able to see that the fears that they had, that their kids had, is universal and knows no racial or cultural boundaries.

Or maybe I'm just typing at this point. tl;dr: shit's bad. It's been bad a long time. Maybe if we actually get to the point and talk about what's bad, we can start making it less bad. Or even good.
posted by rp at 9:09 PM on August 30, 2016 [43 favorites]

The optics are meant to be "Only Trump Can Go To Mexico", so let's see how that works out. As Josh Marshall just posted, ceding control over a situation is campaign anathema.
posted by holgate at 9:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I tweeted a lot about the event; my handle is @spinifex23. Listed as Hail Zorp!
posted by spinifex23 at 9:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

Wow, nice work, spinifex!
posted by mochapickle at 9:14 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

So is "Trump goes to Mexico" the new "Nixon in China?"
posted by rp at 9:17 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

basically the wage compression argument is that you can't increase wages for poor people, or the people just above the poorest will be very resentful and form unions to push for more pay or work out seniority, etc.

To which I always thought, "well great! rising tide and boats and all that"

But the resentment part is very real--I had never thought of it in terms of how it would inform reactionary politics.

One of my work colleagues will turn any mention of the $15/hr minimum wage into a rant about how unfair it is that "burger flippers" will eventually be making as much money as friends of hers with "real jobs." She has no intuition that increasing the minimum wage will ultimately push other wages upwards as well.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:17 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

I've tried to get my #undergroundhillary Facebook friends over but to no avail.

This is my sad butch face.
posted by blessedlyndie at 9:19 PM on August 30, 2016

So is "Trump goes to Mexico" the new "Nixon in China?"

Nope. Just Trump's Razor in action, per usual.
posted by mazola at 9:20 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

The thing that pisses me off the most about the "not making people feel like dirt for working a manual labor job" is that we all worked manual labor jobs, and HE NEVER HAS.

The other part of that is the deep cultural understanding that the more thankless varieties of manual work are a generational sacrifice, not a fucking glorious vocation to be valued in and of itself. That work is -- and has been since the beginning of the industrial revolution -- a means towards an end, and the end is making sure your kids don't do the exact same fucking job. There is dignity in that work, but the dignity belongs to the people doing the work.

FFS, the grand narrative of the post-war US is that the Greatest Generation got conscripted into war, travelling thousands of miles to shoot and not be shot, shared the spoils, their Boomer kids got college and cheap housing and optional drugs and sex (but also not-really-optional Vietnam) and then voted themselves tax cuts under Reagan and Medicare expansion under W Bush and are now Trump-curious because America's Changed. Well, fuck me, so it has.
posted by holgate at 9:21 PM on August 30, 2016 [61 favorites]

There is dignity in that work, but the dignity belongs to the people doing the work.

Thank you for saying it more focusedly than I did.
posted by rp at 9:22 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

One of my work colleagues will turn any mention of the $15/hr minimum wage into a rant about how unfair it is that "burger flippers" will eventually be making as much money as friends of hers with "real jobs."

See also: teachers' unions and "why do they get holiday time and a pension when I can get fired from my shitty job at a moment's notice and have to work unpaid overtime because my boss is a shithead?"

Well, the clue is in the question.
posted by holgate at 9:23 PM on August 30, 2016 [22 favorites]

Oh man, that TPM article:

Remember that the central force of Trump's political brand is dominance politics. Trump commands, people obey. Trump strikes, victims suffer. It will be extremely difficult for him to manage anything like this in the Mexican capital. He comes with a weak hand, no leverage and the look of a loser. All Peña Nieto needs to say is no.

posted by Existential Dread at 9:26 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

that josh marshall piece makes me think (hope?) that peña nieto's plan is to put trump on prime time televison and poke curiously at his hair and laugh uproariously
posted by murphy slaw at 9:27 PM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

See also: teachers' unions and "why do they get holiday time and a pension when I can get fired from my shitty job at a moment's notice and have to work unpaid overtime because my boss is a shithead?"

On the local-market call-in radio that I listen to sometimes, they were talking about this yesterday. And everyone, I mean everyone, supported raising teachers' salaries. Across the board. Recognizing all the hours that teachers put in, their own money they spend for kids. Granted, this is in an econimically-safe market, more or less, but it was heartening because it wasn't about taking sides on this, just about supporting the people who are supporting the people.
(sorry for the field report)
posted by rp at 9:28 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

I don't care who psychologically destroys Trump as long as someone does it. Make my dreams come true, Peña Nieto.

Seriously though, I'm boggling at Trump thinking this is a good idea. It screams TRAP, and like Josh Marshall says, Trump has zero leverage. Trump probably wants to go there and tell Peña Nieto he's going to make Mexico pay for the wall to his face, imagining that Peña Nieto will stammer and cower or something. I doubt that will happen.
posted by yasaman at 9:32 PM on August 30, 2016 [9 favorites]

> It will be extremely difficult for him to manage anything like this in the Mexican capital. He comes with a weak hand, no leverage and the look of a loser. All Peña Nieto needs to say is no.

He's going to go in and poke Peña Nieto in the chest and call him a motherfucker. Trump's Razor is in full effect with every aspect of this trip.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wonder why Pena is taking the meeting? Is he?
posted by Miko at 9:35 PM on August 30, 2016

I feel this deep sense of relief thinking about how apparently, in some parts of the country, if you play it right, you can sort of get enough from SSI to live off of.

It's no guaranteed basic income... but it's a start.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:36 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wow, wait. Pena invited him. According to the NYT, he extended invitations to both Trump and Clintom.
posted by Miko at 9:37 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

He's going to go there, shake hands, smile, get some pictures looking presidential, then go home. Then he'll say after having met the President of Mexico, who's a tremendous guy by the way - great ideas, going to make a great partner, the best partner, stopping illegal immigration, maybe we'll hold off on the wall thing for now.
posted by ctmf at 9:40 PM on August 30, 2016 [26 favorites]

TRAP TRAP IT'S A TRAP.

Win-win for Peña Nieto, no matter how it goes with either candidate, probably a net neutral for Clinton if not positive, but it's gotta be a loss for Trump no matter what. Like, barely knowing anything about Peña Nieto, I'm willing to bet he's smarter than Trump.
posted by yasaman at 9:41 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

it right, you can sort of get enough from SSI to live off of.

...you realize SSI is for disabled people (and old age with basically zero assets...but mainly disabled in practice), right? And it's $733/mo, or $8796/yr. Poverty line is $11880 for an individual. They don't just hand this stuff out, contrary to Republican talking points. You have to prove medical disability, with actual medical records. And then it's literally a pittance, below poverty line.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [7 favorites]

So is "Trump goes to Mexico" the new "Nixon in China?"

Or "Bonzo goes to Bitburg."
posted by dersins at 9:44 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

I wonder why Pena is taking the meeting? Is he?

It would be kinda great if he was too busy to see him.
posted by bongo_x at 9:46 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

And I think part of the cultural / ethnic issue is that some white Americans see second-generation immigrant kids who are the beneficiaries of their parents' generational sacrifice, and

But that shit's really hard. It's the diversity lottery winner who drives a cab in the small hours though he arrived in America with a professional degree because there's no easy way to convert his credentials; it's the overqualified woman working server shifts at a restaurant while she gets her language skills up to spec; it's even the aspiring model dumped in NYC on a precarious visa, living in a shitty dorm that's billed against most of what she earns.

It's perhaps easier, paradoxically, when you have fewer cultural ties and no expectations that America's going to give you anything. You've already given up everything you can fall back on. If you're rooted, then you're more likely to get stuck.

That's the noxious bind of Trumpism: it's promising economic change alongside cultural stasis: you (mainly white people, but maybe minorities if you get on board) can keep being just what you are and greatness will be rained down upon you. One thing that's gone largely unnoticed is that Trump doesn't really talk about a path out of shitty prospects in the way that it's usually understood: as befits a dolt who considers education a status symbol, there is no education policy. That, I think, is what chimes most with fascism.
posted by holgate at 9:47 PM on August 30, 2016 [12 favorites]

So is "Trump goes to Mexico" the new "Nixon in China?"

With Giuliani and Bannon, it's more like the Three Amigos.
posted by My Dad at 9:48 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Win-win for Peña Nieto

The guy is apparently at 23% in the polls. Who knows how good his political instincts are, and if he actually knows what he's signing up for. Extraordinary times in 2016.
posted by My Dad at 9:49 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump probably wants to go there and tell Peña Nieto he's going to make Mexico pay for the wall to his face, imagining that Peña Nieto will stammer and cower or something. I doubt that will happen.

I wonder whether he's convinced that everyone who'll show up in D.F. will speak only Mexican.
posted by holgate at 9:49 PM on August 30, 2016

More like Neville goes to Munich. Except I'm not sure which guy is Neville Chamberlin.
posted by humanfont at 9:54 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ah, found the article Trump was just crowing about: WSJ: Black Lives Matter to Donald Trump

You may remember the writer, Heather Mac Donald, defending Abu Ghraib as "torture lite" some years ago.
posted by mochapickle at 9:57 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

ugh, sack my typist: first graf should have been

"And I think part of the cultural / ethnic issue is that some white Americans see second-generation immigrant kids who are the beneficiaries of their parents' generational sacrifice, and wonder how they got ahead when they're stuck where they are."

But you got the gist.
posted by holgate at 9:57 PM on August 30, 2016

First - at least when I was doing social service/homeless services work, the majority of people I saw who had SSI (who had regular social workers) were often able to get SSI for the kids as well. So more common than one person alone with 700$ SSI, was a family of three or four, collecting between 2K and 3K a month.

What the heck are you even talking about? To collect SSI you must be disabled. Children do not get SSI unless they are disabled. If a family of three or four are all collecting SSI, they they must all be disabled. From tonyscpu's PDF from the Social Security Administration Inspector you will see that in the entire U.S. there are estimated to be less than 14,000 households in which four members are collecting SSI.

So I would have to say that your claim that families of three or four on SSI collecting 2K to 3K a month is common, is, how do we say this ... bullshit. This is Ronald Reagan Cadillac welfare queen level bullshit. No wonder Trump Republicans are angry. They are being showered with bullshit.
posted by JackFlash at 9:58 PM on August 30, 2016 [40 favorites]

Politico has this quote:

"“Trump realized this would be a brilliant time to do it and is trying to pull it together last minute,” according another person close to the campaign who has been briefed by a campaign staffer. “Would be a major power play. It’s like he’s already negotiating on behalf of America.” The person suggested that the meeting could, for example, allow Trump to agree to deport only criminals if the Mexican president offered some sort of concession in return."

Their notions of power plays clearly have disaster written all over them. Tomorrow should be interesting.
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:06 PM on August 30, 2016 [8 favorites]

If you're disabled, it's pretty likely you have expensive or hard to meet needs in terms of transit, shopping, help around the house, medical needs (even if treatment is fully covered, you still have to get to the office), etc. If you're disabled and have kids then I hazard to guess your "income" doesn't go near as far as the same income would for a non-disabled parent (what if you can't pick your kids up? what if you always have to use the bus because you can't drive?). Plus, my understanding of disability rules is you often aren't allowed to accumulate "wealth" where "wealth" means even a few months savings. The people I know on disability or similar aren't allowed more than a few hundred dollars in assets. One unexpected bill (e.g. a broken down car or having to move suddenly because your apartment becomes uninhabitable which actually happens if you're having to rent at the low end of the market) and you're screwed.

While I grant that there are probably a few people here and there who are scamming the system, the vast, overwhelming majority of people getting disability benefits are not living a truly stable and secure life. That some people believe that folks on disability are somehow unfairly getting benefits is entirely because those in power have routinely redirected anger at the system towards marginalized groups that aren't doing any better than those who are angry. It's just another version of blaming the misallocation of government resources on "welfare queens".
posted by R343L at 10:08 PM on August 30, 2016 [16 favorites]

Oh, and the SSA Inspector's report shows that the most common reason for households with four or more disabled members is mental retardation or other mental impairment. These are the families that Trump Republicans are so envious of for jumping ahead of them?
posted by JackFlash at 10:09 PM on August 30, 2016 [13 favorites]

Plus, my understanding of disability rules is you often aren't allowed to accumulate "wealth" where "wealth" means even a few months savings. The people I know on disability or similar aren't allowed more than a few hundred dollars in assets.

That's SSI, to be clear. SSDI is calculated as a fraction of your previous income and you can have savings. Neither is enough to live on.
posted by mochapickle at 10:10 PM on August 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

They are victims, just victims who take out their victim-hood on the people they are told are the ones taking it away from them. They are double-fucked.

Many of the rural poor are indeed victims of snake oil salesmen, but the logic by which you're describing them as victims is itself forbidden by their own ideology, which focuses on personal responsibility and a caveat emptor / victim-blaming approach to one's situation in life. This is a hard nut to crack, as the MoJo article linked above illustrates -- we can give them assistance, but they're certainly not going to extoll the virtues of that assistance to others, so everyone's secretly and shamefully soaking up the benefits while describing themselves as a rugged individualist, leading to the paradox of vanishing public support at the ballot box for the checks that the public desperately wants in their mailbox.

So what are we to do? We can't force-feed these communities benefits they don't want, so we try to bury them in the tax code, which further undermines the public case for their existence, even among other populations that aren't as hostile towards them. Or we try to use blunt instruments like the ACA's Medicaid Expansion, but the public mood in many states is so anti-government that even this free life-saving money is rejected. And as we watch so many of them struggling, sick, and dying, we're told to not be too mean to the ones who continue to crusade against the government assistance that they and their neighbors desperately need.

I don't know about you, but I don't have the stomach to give them what they want and pull away entirely to leave them to die. So I'll keep pushing for them to get the programs they need, but with that, I will retain my right to tell the ones that hate those programs to go fuck themselves, especially the ones who are simultaneously benefiting from them while undermining them.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 PM on August 30, 2016 [29 favorites]

As Donald Trump heads to Mexico today, a few of his greatest hits:
posted by Artw at 10:19 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

you'd discover that each line was as wrong as the poem as a whole, which is as wrong as the rally that it's delivered at, which is as wrong as the Trump campaign. It's wrongness all the way down, with no bottom to it.

Every word is wrong, every syllable, every phoneme, literally every molecule and atom of air that goes in and out of Trump's mouth while he's saying it.

It's like the absolute epitome of wrongness . . .
posted by flug at 10:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I read these election threads mainly to keep myself sane during this election season. But the dialogue over the past few hours between people like corb, Frowner, JackFlash, tonycpsu, R343L, holgate, rp (and others who I'm sure I'm missing) is really Best of Metafilter. I wish it wasn't buried at the bottom of such a long thread.

I feel like I'm getting a grad course in sociology here. A lot of what people are saying resonates strongly with my own experience having grown up fairly low-income in a rural red state and now returning home to visit occasionally as an evil lesbian ivory tower liberal. But y'all are saying it better than I ever have, and drawing links between phenomena that I hadn't perceived myself.
posted by forza at 10:33 PM on August 30, 2016 [30 favorites]

Ah, found the article Trump was just crowing about: WSJ: Black Lives Matter to Donald Trump

It's just an op/ed at that, not even journalism or reportage ffs.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:45 PM on August 30, 2016

All I can think of right now is Admiral Akbar piloting Trump's plane to Mexico but Trump ignoring Akbar's warning because his name sounds Muslim.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 11:25 PM on August 30, 2016 [11 favorites]

Can Trump legally negotiate policy with a foreign leader? That sounds completely illegal.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:34 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

They could chat about UFOs or whatever but none of it is legally binding. It's just a PR stunt. He's on record calling Mexicans rapists and so forth, so his visit is damage control with Latino voters.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:40 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

I suppose it could be a violation of the Logan Act, but I believe that Act specifies negotiating without autority with foreign nations who have a dispute with the United States. Either way, only one person has ever been indicted for such a violation, in the early 1800s. Many have grumbled about it. Reagan mumbled Rev. Jesse Jackson's activities in Cuba, for instance.
posted by xyzzy at 11:43 PM on August 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

DONALD IN MEXICO

President Peña Nieto: 	Mr Trump, it is a great pleasure to welcome you to our beautiful republic.

Donald Trump: 		[thinks: say something presidential say something presidential]
 
			So, what kind of tacos you get around here?

posted by Joe in Australia at 11:47 PM on August 30, 2016 [4 favorites]

that josh marshall piece makes me think (hope?) that peña nieto's plan is to put trump on prime time televison and poke curiously at his hair and laugh uproariously

No, he is going to rip the glowing orange slime mold from Aldebaran IX B from Trump's cortical cavity and beat it to death with a folding chair, thereby saving humanity and earning the Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by y2karl at 11:49 PM on August 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

But the dialogue over the past few hours between people like corb, Frowner, JackFlash, tonycpsu, R343L, holgate, rp (and others who I'm sure I'm missing) is really Best of .

To give credit where it's due? I'm reluctant to quote metafiler comments to my partner because *rolleyes*, but I had to read all of Corb's comment, the one that kicked of the discussion, and we had a long talk about it afterwards.

I may be on the opposite side of the political spectrum from Corb, but damn. The resulting conversation is the best of the internet. If metafilter gave Hugos, I would nominate her.
posted by happyroach at 12:15 AM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

Note: everyone needs a hugo
posted by aubilenon at 12:21 AM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

My dream Clinton opener at the first debate:

"Good evening, ladies and gentleman, etc. I'm disappointed tonight. Every four years, our country comes together to discuss the hopes we have for our country and the challenges we face. And the Republicans have always nominated men with strong visions for our future. We hold elections so that we can compare those competing visions. I was looking forward to debating a serious Republican candidate because I know that the Democratic vision for our future is the right one, and I will debate with anybody, any time, to prove it. Unfortunately, there won't be a real debate tonight. We can't compare visions for this country. We can't debate because Donald Trump doesn't have a vision FOR America, he only has a vision OF America. A bankrupt vision. A vision that says our cities are more dangerous than war torn areas. A vision that say immigrants are rapist and murderers. A vision of women incapable of real work. He doesn't have any ideas about how to fix our country, he only has problems. He says only he can fix them, but he won't say how. So I'm disappointed. There won't be a debate tonight because there is no serious Republican candidate for president. I will share with you how I will move the country forward. I know that's it the right vision. But I'm disappointed because you won't have much to compare it to - only mean spirited attacks and a side of exaggeration. Etc."
posted by one_bean at 12:26 AM on August 31, 2016 [35 favorites]

Note: everyone needs a hugo
but I think only MeFi's Own cstross and jscalzi have won one
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:30 AM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

I think the guy who wrote this amazing dystopia about Trump being the 2016 nominee needs a Hugo. Talk about great speculative fiction! I just need to figure out how to turn off this VR interface...
posted by corb at 12:37 AM on August 31, 2016 [32 favorites]

Well, it has a great opening and I'm sure the climax will totally be worth it, but the storyline really needs editing to tighten it up in the middle. It's taking entirely too long to develop its characters.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 12:45 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

the meeting could, for example, allow Trump to agree to deport only criminals if the Mexican president offered some sort of concession in return.

It's win-win, right? The US gets paid to get rid of just the people it doesn't want, and Mexico pays to get back just the people it's better off without. And the money from the deal all goes to BUILD THE WALL! Except for a small* annual stipend to Trump to pay him for the right to hang his name on the wall.

(* 10-15% of gross should do it.)
posted by Autumn Leaf at 12:54 AM on August 31, 2016

my hairdresser, who has had on a couple occasions to stop what she was doing because I was having painful spasms, told me that she is sick of people who can work receiving disability, but I was okay because I was in a wheelchair.

It's like, yaaaaaay, I won your approval, I need a new hairdresser.
posted by angrycat at 1:39 AM on August 31, 2016 [47 favorites]

A couple of earlier comments deleted. Please don't post specific how-to type assassination scenarios.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:43 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I genuinely want Trump to be safe in Mexico as I really don't want to do the moral calculus of deciding whether Los Zetas are better or worse than the alt-right.
posted by um at 3:27 AM on August 31, 2016

Has anyone else spotted the new PPP national poll? There's a spectacular cross-tab in there. "Trump Cares about African-Americans and Latinos Yes/No" Hispanic: 27%/67% African American: 2%/80% White: 51%/40%
posted by Francis at 3:34 AM on August 31, 2016 [27 favorites]

If Joe Arpaio gets his wish and manage to make it on the already hilarrible team of Jefferson Beauregard "A Racist Slave-Owning Traitor Is Literally My Middle Name" Sessions III and Rudy "9/11! I WAS THERE!" Guliani, we may actually deplete the emergency backup popcorn supplies.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:13 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have a question for those who are out volunteering for the Clinton campaign -- do you ever talk about downticket races? Or should I sign up specifically with those candidates to volunteer for them?

I ask because while I want to help Clinton to win Florida; I also want to help Patrick Murphy beat Marco Rubio. And I'm near a swing congressional district that could use a push towards the blue (Florida's 26).
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 4:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

The script we use does have a bit about downticket Democrats. And if I recall correctly, if the recipient is not enthusiastic about Clinton, you're supposed to ask them about supporting other Democrats on the ticket. I know that some of the HRC events in NH have been joint events to support Maggie Hassan as well.
posted by peacheater at 4:34 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, I know there was a bit specifically about Hassan in our script, because I had to ask the elderly lady sitting next to me exactly how to pronounce Hassan, given that I get all my news from the internet and newspapers.
posted by peacheater at 4:35 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think my dream result of Trump's trip to Mexico would be Peña Nieto sending an underling to the airport to tell Trump to go back home when he lands, and then holding a press conference to explain to everyone what an idiot Trump is, and a weak-willed one at that who will come running on a moment's notice. Just a straight up attack on his need for dominance.

A man can dream, right?
posted by tocts at 4:54 AM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Also in that PPP poll, 31% of Trump supporters favor building a wall across the Atlantic Ocean to keep Muslims from the Middle East from entering the United States. 12% off all poll respondents support the Atlantic wall.
posted by rdr at 4:54 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Maggie Haberman: Trump at moment is not planning to bring US media with him on trip. Anyone remember another nominee doing foreign trip w no press corps?

So the spin will belong to him entirely. No matter what actually happens the Three Amigos can announce that Trump was the dominant male and he made some fantastic deal.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:55 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ugh. Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio has trounced 3 Republican rivals to win the GOP nomination in his bid for a 7th term
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:58 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I can't help but think of the time Rob Ford flew down to appear on Jimmy Fallon's show and everyone worried it was going to be some sort of PR masterstroke and then Fallon just rubbed Ford's face in it for 20 minutes while he sat there sweating and grinning uncomfortably.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:11 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

A hint at what Trump's concession speech might sound like?

George Richards: .@tim_canova gives his concession speech: "I will concede Debbie Wasserman Shultz is a corporate stooge. There you go."

In other twitter news....

Roger Stone has tweeted a photoshopped picture of Hillary and Bill in full KKK regalia entitled "Who are the racists?"

Pastor Mark Burns retweeted the racist Hillary cartoon but this time without the black face. (She is still holding up signs that say "I ain't no ways tired of pandering to African-Americans" and "#@!* the police."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:14 AM on August 31, 2016

Trump at moment is not planning to bring US media with him on trip. Anyone remember another nominee doing foreign trip w no press corps?

Dangit foiled again! If only the Mexicans had media outlets of their own
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:18 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

So is "Trump goes to Mexico" the new "Nixon in China?"

Seems more like the new "John McCain suspends his campaign to negotiate a brilliant solution to the financial crisis."
posted by PlusDistance at 5:24 AM on August 31, 2016 [27 favorites]

Yes, and if only US news media outlets had access to these things called "airplanes" and "passports".
posted by tocts at 5:25 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

also,

NYT: Oh, oh, Mr. Trump sir *tugs on sleeve* is it true you are going to Mexico do you mind if we come too?

DJT: No you have to stay home

*sad trombone*

NYT: Oh well Mr. Trump sir will you please let us know how it went when you return sir?

DJT: maybe if you behave yourselves

NYT: will you bring us treats

DJT: we'll see
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:25 AM on August 31, 2016 [27 favorites]

the new "Nixon in China?"

More like Earnest Goes To Camp, except dumber.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:29 AM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

I also hear rumours that US media have correspondents in a place called 'abroad', where the fabled land of Old Mexico is widely thought to be.
posted by Devonian at 5:30 AM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

The Clinton camp believes that Mr. Trump is most insecure about his intelligence, his net worth and his image as a successful businessman, and those are the areas they are working with Mrs. Clinton to target.

In related news, Clinton camp believes water is wet, rocks hard.

It's not like Trump hasn't worn these things on his sleeve since this all began. If I was handling Trump, I'd run the limo back by Dr. Jacoby's office and get him a prescription for a heroic dose of Xanax prior to the debates. Sure, for anyone else trying to participate in a debate on a massive dose of sedatives would be insane, but for the Donald? The expectation is that he will morph into some twisted combination of The Red Skull and The Incredible Hulk. If he just stands there, throws out short, no substance answers and literally drools on himself a bit everyone will be talking about how presidential he looked last night.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:34 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I heard pretty much anybody can go to Mexico without Trump's permission. There are rumors that even teenagers do it during a fabled spring recreational holiday.
posted by maxsparber at 5:42 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio has trounced 3 Republican rivals to win the GOP nomination in his bid for a 7th term

The knowledge that Arpaio's personal fiefdom of brutality will continue for four more years is enough to make someone clinically depressed. We talk about theoretical oppression as a result of people getting elected but Sheriff Joe's everyday brutality has resulted in 24 years of minority oppression and terror with at least another four years to go.

Fuck the people of this country sometimes. We're well past the "we didn't know what he was doing" defense. The electorate of Maricopa County is half inhabited by bloodthirsty brutalists.
posted by Talez at 5:44 AM on August 31, 2016 [28 favorites]

There's mention of downticket races in the Clinton phonebanking scripts, but the best way to support individual candidates is to volunteer for their campaigns.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway: ‘Rape would not exist’ if women were strong enough

In a recently resurfaced video clip from the PBS program To the Contrary, Conway said that she objected to women in combat.

“Women are already making incredible contributions to the United Sates military and will continue to do so,” she opined. “But the military’s first and primary mission is to win wars and to be as completely as capable and efficient and uber-ready as it can be. But we also don’t want to put our women in harm’s way.”

After panel members pointed out that women who pass the physical exam should have the same rights as men, Conway brought up the topic of rape unprompted.

“If you are suggesting that physical fitness experts say it’s different, I’ll accept that,” she said. “Except to say that we should not have the girl’s version and the boy’s version of that physical fitness test.”

“But I’ll tell you,” Conway added. “If we were physiologically — not mentally, emotionally, professionally — equal to men, if we were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist. You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.”

posted by zombieflanders at 6:09 AM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

Trump just tweeted Former President Vicente Fox, who is railing against my visit to Mexico today, also invited me when he apologized for using the "f bomb." [real]

There's a @dril quality to that one.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:11 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

George Richards: .@tim_canova gives his concession speech: "I will concede Debbie Wasserman Shultz is a corporate stooge. There you go."

Proves to me he wasn't the right man for a job that's best performed by those skilled in collegiality, diplomacy, compromise, and a desire to serve others. What an immature dick.

This race plus Arpaio plus a lot of the House races where there is no credible opponent to incumbents...it seems like there's a lot of potential room for decent, mature, intelligent adults, but not a lot of decent, mature, intelligent adults who want these jobs or the experience of trying to get them. Is it the money thing? The way candidates get picked apart nowadays? The fact that Congress seems worse than useless?

Imagine the different kind of people we might get in our government if all campaigns were publicly financed...
posted by sallybrown at 6:12 AM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

“But I’ll tell you,” Conway added. “If we were physiologically — not mentally, emotionally, professionally — equal to men, if we were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist. You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.”

I'd feel sorry for her at how much she clearly hates herself (see also: Todd Akin campaign), except that she's hurting the rest of us, too. Seek therapy, Conway.
posted by sallybrown at 6:15 AM on August 31, 2016 [36 favorites]

Trump just tweeted Former President Vicente Fox, who is railing against my visit to Mexico today, also invited me when he apologized for using the "f bomb."

He's completely setting up the dominance narrative here. I hope Peña is savvy enough to pick up on this and react accordingly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:15 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

A caution about the danger of this election:

One of my favourite things from this election is the 'Vagenda of Manocide' thing. It's tickles my funny bone in all the right places and it's really fun to say out loud. Since it came to light I've been saying it out loud (mostly to myself) and having a good giggle.

Yesterday I was working on the books at our music festival office.

Me to our event manager: "So I have something I need to put on next weeks vagenda.'

Event manager: 'Eh wot? '

Me: o.0 'doh'
posted by Jalliah at 6:15 AM on August 31, 2016 [33 favorites]

Fuck the people of this country sometimes. We're well past the "we didn't know what he was doing" defense. The electorate of Maricopa County is half inhabited by bloodthirsty brutalists.

To be fair to the good people of Maricopa county, Arpaio only got 67% of the vote of the people who showed up for the GOP primary, where turnout is generally lower. He might still lose in the general election, maybe.
posted by dis_integration at 6:19 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I've said this before, but Hillary's Made in America thing is great. And it should be a clarion for all of those people who, for whatever reason, want to believe that we still have a chance to build real things here, meaning infrastructure, not just product.

These campaigns are explicitly prohibited by almost every trade agreement. It's been a part of NAFTA for ages. She can do it in a campaign because she isn't government yet. The moment she is president she has to drop it because it is illegal.
posted by srboisvert at 6:22 AM on August 31, 2016

George Richards: .@tim_canova gives his concession speech: "I will concede Debbie Wasserman Shultz is a corporate stooge. There you go."

Proves to me he wasn't the right man for a job that's best performed by those skilled in collegiality, diplomacy, compromise, and a desire to serve others. What an immature dick.

I'd assumed that that tweet was satire. No wonder DWS won.
posted by Francis at 6:24 AM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

To be fair to the good people of Maricopa county, Arpaio only got 67% of the vote of the people who showed up for the GOP primary, where turnout is generally lower. He might still lose in the general election, maybe.

Then there's the whole "criminal charges being considered by the Dept of Justice thing"...
posted by strange chain at 6:27 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Obama Pays Mexico Five Billion Dollars to Keep Donald Trump (fake, obvs)

“I have been assured by the government of Mexico that Mr. Trump will be well taken care of and, if he proves to be a productive member of their society, will be provided a pathway to Mexican citizenship,” Obama said.

The President bristled at the suggestion that paying Mexico to keep Trump was “reverse ransom” and an extravagant use of taxpayer money. “There is only one accurate word for this payment: a bargain,” he said.

Gold, Jerry.
posted by adamp88 at 6:31 AM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

rp: The thing that pisses me off the most about the "not making people feel like dirt for working a manual labor job" is that we all worked manual labor jobs...

My own vision of National Service is that everyone should spend a year working in a service job like waiting tables or in retail. Then everyone will get the experience of some kind of long hours, tiring work, and no thanks....but you also get an enormous lesson in empathy for others.

People who have never been in a service job give away that fact sooner or later, in the way they treat the ordinary people they deal with. Trump strikes me as someone who probably tips big, but does so unhappily because he wants to have a reputation as a big spender -- but he hates giving away his Precious Wealth to "just" someone with a service job.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:33 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

Can someone explain the whole DWS controversy from beginning to end to me? I honestly don't understand where it all came from. I guess I'm specifically interested in:
1. What she is supposed to have done
2. Whether she actually did what she is supposed to have done
3. What her appointment in Florida afterward was, and why it's so controversial
4. What her reputation was before all this brouhaha - it seems that many people have a long-standing dislike of her, I'd like to understand more about why
5. Who this Tim Canova chap is
posted by peacheater at 6:42 AM on August 31, 2016

1. What she is supposed to have done
2. Whether she actually did what she is supposed to have done
3. What her appointment in Florida afterward was, and why it's so controversial
4. What her reputation was before all this brouhaha - it seems that many people have a long-standing dislike of her, I'd like to understand more about why
5. Who this Tim Canova chap is

1. She's supposed to have used the DNC (the committee) as part of HRC's campaign, not as a neutral entity.
2. Sort of. There's no precise smoking gun but the emails certainly reveal a lack of concern for remaining neutral
3. Clinton took her on as a member of her campaign, which was controversial because the whole point was that she was supposed to be biased in favor of Clinton, instead of being neutral.
4. Much of her negative rep comes from her work to help out those poor, struggling, payday lenders.
5. After that bullshit concession, he's just some chucklefuck.
posted by dis_integration at 6:48 AM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Oh man please put him on live Mexican TV and proceed to humiliate him in both languages at once

Please please please
posted by schadenfrau at 6:49 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

Can someone explain the whole DWS controversy from beginning to end to me? I honestly don't understand where it all came from. I guess I'm specifically interested in:
1. What she is supposed to have done

She was in charge of the DNC - responsible for organising the Democratic Primary. Some Sanders supporters claim she rigged the election. She's also the representative for Florida's 23rd district.

2. Whether she actually did what she is supposed to have done

No. She didn't. There were some leaked emails from the DNC - which showed a couple of DNC staffers kicked round floating an anti-Sanders controversy that never materialised.

3. What her appointment in Florida afterward was, and why it's so controversial

Clinton made her her Honorary Campaign Chair and then sent her back to Florida. Emphasis on the word honorary - it was a kiss-off. The loopier Sanders supporters claim this was giving her a job.

4. What her reputation was before all this brouhaha - it seems that many people have a long-standing dislike of her, I'd like to understand more about why

A good fundraiser. Otherwise someone who was right in Clinton's camp in 2008 - and threw her over for Obama as soon as it was clear he was winning. Generally not very organised or good at much other than fundraising and she managed to annoy both Clinton and Obama.

5. Who this Tim Canova chap is

She's a member of the House from Florida. He was making her fight a primary because he wanted to become the Democratic candidate for the House in Florida's 23rd district. It's gerrymandered enough that the Primary is basically the election.
posted by Francis at 6:51 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

2. Sort of. There's no precise smoking gun but the emails certainly reveal a lack of concern for remaining neutral
Did she personally send any of these emails?

Also, was under the impression that the DNC did not actually organize any of the state primary elections. How is the rigging of the elections supposed to have taken place?
posted by peacheater at 6:53 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Did she personally send any of these emails?

No.

Also, was under the impression that the DNC did not actually organize any of the state primary elections. How is the rigging of the elections supposed to have taken place?

Your guess is as good as mine.
posted by Francis at 6:58 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Did she personally send any of these emails?

Well

“Do you all think it’s worth highlighting for CNN that her term ends the day after the inauguration, when a new D.N.C. Chair is elected anyway?” Mr. Miranda asked. Ms. Wasserman Schultz responded by dismissing the senator’s chances. “This is a silly story,” she wrote. “He isn’t going to be president.”

It's up to others to interpret things the way they want here. I'm just trying to answer the "what was she supposed to have done" and "did she do it" questions. The answer to the second is closer to "sort of" than it is to "not at all".
posted by dis_integration at 7:01 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

She wrote that towards the end of May though, right? It was pretty clear Sanders was not going to be President at that point.
posted by peacheater at 7:04 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

On mobile and can't read the link--what's the date on that email? IIRC it was after Sanders had no remaining mathematical path to the nomination.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:04 AM on August 31, 2016

The people who most often grouse about "rigged" elections lodge the complaint that the DNC was not an impartial party in the primary, as they claimed they would be*.

I don't think they had any good reason to be impartial, but I believe that DWS made statements from the beginning that the DNC wouldn't play favorites between any of the candidates. I think a lot of the "scandal" with the DNC's obvious preference for Clinton would have looked better if they had never pretended to do otherwise.

*citation needed, but I'm pretty sure I have read DWS quotes from that time saying as much
posted by Tevin at 7:04 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah, context matters if you care about, you know, the truth.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:05 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Awww none of these MSNBC correspondents have slept at all
posted by schadenfrau at 7:07 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

The date on the email is March 21. Sanders had just won 7 primaries in a row. He still had a path: by winning NY and CA by huge margins. An insane, improbable path, perhaps. But the primary was not over till it was over.
posted by dis_integration at 7:09 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Misread that. May 21. But still. I don't think it matters much to the question.
posted by dis_integration at 7:10 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

It matters a great deal to me. On March 21st, DWS would have been dismissing Sanders' chances when he had several plausible ways to still win. On May 21st the primary was over in all but name, and DWS is just saying what we all recognized as mathematically true at that point.
posted by peacheater at 7:12 AM on August 31, 2016 [41 favorites]

Kind of by definition, a miracle is not a path. It's the hand of God parting the waters to make a path where none existed before.

It seems incredibly disingenuous to claim this is evidence of even "sort of" bias, and is the kind of thing that, since it has no basis in reality, contributes to the sense that the attacks on DWS (like the attacks on Clinton) have to do with something else.

I wonder what it could be.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:12 AM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

Vicente Fox: 'I really apologize' for Trump's Mexico visit

"It's a very opportunistic move and I hope U.S. public opinion, U.S. citizens can see this and finally, and finally see what is behind Trump, this false prophet that is just cheating everybody," Fox said. "It's a desperate move and I don't see how it can work at all."

posted by mochapickle at 7:13 AM on August 31, 2016 [28 favorites]

Also, was under the impression that the DNC did not actually organize any of the state primary elections. How is the rigging of the elections supposed to have taken place?

Through the intangible bias of endorsements and other forms of intangible support.

The date on the email is March 21. Sanders had just won 7 primaries in a row. He still had a path: by winning NY and CA by huge margins. An insane, improbable path, perhaps. But the primary was not over till it was over.

If someone honest to god thought Sanders had even a sliver of a chance of a blowout in New York I'd like some of what they're smoking to get through the rest of the campaign season. It was over on March 15th. Hell, it was over on March 1st.
posted by Talez at 7:13 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

AP via NYT: Mexico Wonders Why Its President Is Meeting With Trump
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:13 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think the unbiased view of things is...

I think people here are disputing whether your view of what is "unbiased" is really unbiased.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Still reading the thread, but I found the ideal justice for the Supreme Court.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:16 AM on August 31, 2016

Much of her negative rep comes from her work to help out those poor, struggling, payday lenders.

My main beef with her is that she's sufficiently pally with her Miami-area House Republican colleagues (in competitive or even Obama-voting districts) that she's discouraged and refused to assist Dem challengers. That's not compatible with a role (DNC chair) that by definition should treat every GOP incumbent as a target, or at very least worthy of a challenge that reflects the chance of winning.
posted by holgate at 7:20 AM on August 31, 2016 [25 favorites]

>But I do think it's worth separating the 'controversy' about Debbie Wasserman-Schultz from critiques of the DNC.

I want to quote that and Nth it because I think it's a really terrific point.
posted by Tevin at 7:21 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I don't see the point in arguing about this again. I think the unbiased view of things is: the primaries weren't over. Winning was, in fact, still possible, if "mathematically" unlikely. Huge margins would've done it. Were they going to happen? Probably not. But does it look really bad if the ref stops making good calls even when the losing side needs 3 touchdowns in the last 5 minutes? Yes.

As of May 21 Sanders' chances of victory were down to "wins California by 60 points," which, come the fuck on.

Sports metaphors are kinda dumb, but, if it were a boxing match, the ref would have, yes, stopped the fight.
posted by dersins at 7:23 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

An insane, improbable path, perhaps. But the primary was not over till it was over.

This is what makes her unsuitable for any sort of leadership role. She didn't need to put her thumb on the scales at that point, and went ahead and did it anyway.

This is not a non-issue, as the resignations indicate, and her deep ties to Clinton is one of the two reasons I went from "Eh, I'll vote Sanders but I'll be happy with Clinton" to "Hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil."

Clinton and her allies' continual missteps prevarications would have doomed her campaign early Any. Other. Year. Fortunately she's up against an actual fascist lunatic and so has what looks like an ironclad lead.

Doesn't mean I have to be overjoyed I'm stuck with her as the D candidate - or any of the D candidates. The field was ludicrously weak this election, containing two(!) candidates who switched parties to run as Democrats.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:24 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

My main beef with her is that she's sufficiently pally with her Miami-area House Republican colleagues (in competitive or even Obama-voting districts) that she's discouraged and refused to assist Dem challengers.

1000 times this. Her and Steve Israel repeatedly withheld DNC support for progressive challengers in favor of incumbent Republicans, and/or chose the most loathesome corporate bluedog Dem available to back with party support over progressive candidates who might vote with the Democrats more than 33% of the time. See: ~~Republican~~ Democratic Candidate for Senate Patrick Murphy
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:25 AM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

This is what makes her unsuitable for any sort of leadership role. She didn't need to put her thumb on the scales at that point, and went ahead and did it anyway.

How did she actually put her thumb on the scale at that point? One internal email saying Sanders was not going to be President (which was true) and thus no response to his announcement was needed does not equate to putting the thumb on the scale to me.
posted by peacheater at 7:29 AM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

As of May 21 Sanders' chances of victory were down to "wins California by 60 points," which, come the fuck on.

Sports metaphors are kinda dumb, but, if it were a boxing match, the ref would have, yes, stopped the fight.

Indeed. This was about the point when my views of Sanders switched from "Yay! A progressive is running and dragging Clinton to the left" to "What an irresponsible prat. Taking things all the way to the convention? No wonder he can claim to be an outsider after 25 years in Washington. No one really wants him as an insider. Thank goodness Clinton is crushing him."
posted by Francis at 7:30 AM on August 31, 2016 [25 favorites]

I swear people see stuff in those DNC emails that I don't really see. I was annoyed as all hell by Sanders campaign by May, and I had been a supporter of him. I don't see how some snarky emails between DNC folks was 'tipping the scales'. I'm surprised there isn't worse.
posted by airish at 7:30 AM on August 31, 2016 [24 favorites]

So we should have supported the wife beating hedge fund manager instead, T. D. Strange?
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:31 AM on August 31, 2016

From the NYT/AP piece:Mexicans have already made — and beaten to pulp — pinatas of Donald Trump. They created a video game in which players can throw soccer balls, cactus leaves and tequila bottles at a cartoon image of Trump.

I can't help but see this as a new version of Breakout, with Donnie trying to build the wall against a fusillade of angry cultural detritus...
posted by Devonian at 7:31 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I realize An Election Thing Just Happened Regarding DWS, but unless something new actually happened happened regarding all the stuff back in the spring, I don't think there's much reason to once again have a long rehashed argument about folks' opinions about stuff back in the spring in here. The old threads are still there, there's basically zero new ground, maybe go re-read those instead.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [31 favorites]

Oh goodie, are we re-litigating the primaries again? That's always productive.
posted by Artw at 7:34 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

Esquire: Mr. Taco Bowl Goes to Mexico "This is a spectacular piece of campaign vaudeville."

Also, the Logan Act.
posted by mochapickle at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Has there been any discussion upthread I might have missed about a realistic "best case scenario" for Trump's Mexico visit?

I mean - he probably imagines that this will show doubters that he is intent on working with Mexico but I don't think anyone besides his supporters will be fooled.

And if it's a private meeting, how is anybody going to know what came of the meeting anyway?

To me, the realistic best case scenario for him is that everybody forgets it even happened by Friday and the worst case scenario is that he's run out of town on a rail with an entire country laughing at him.
posted by Tevin at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2016

Indeed, let's move on. Why the hell is Trump meeting Nieto? His campaign right now is so, so random I'm wondering if their agenda is getting generated by one of those origami fortune tellers we used to fold in grade school.
posted by dw at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I would guess he's going to talk about his actual agenda with them. I think Trump is pretty much telling his supporters what they want to hear, so he's lying through his teeth. What his actual agenda is, is unknown. That's probably what he's discussing.

Or he's hoping he can snow Nieto and get his support, but good luck.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:42 AM on August 31, 2016

If he gets a photo of a handshake and says nothing stupid I guess he gets to say he tried, which furthers whatever the hell his goal is with all this "outreach" he's been doing lately - mostly likely more to do with messaging to drifting white Republicans than anyone it's allegedly aimed at.
posted by Artw at 7:42 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

one of those origami fortune tellers we used to fold in grade school.

Cootie catchers. They're called "cootie catchers."
[real]

This is very important.
[pointlessly hyperbolic]
posted by dersins at 7:45 AM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

everytime I take a little sanity break from these threads you guys come up with newer acronyms. What's the (T) in PoT(T), I'm guessing PoT is party of trump?

I need a cheatsheet for all the terms from all the election threads
posted by numaner at 7:45 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

That is how Trump makes them feel. Uplifted. They have never felt uplifted, and have never been more than an assumed base for the GOP. Trump is a drug, a dangerous drug, one that makes them feel worthy and energetic. Trump is the political meth of the rural poor.

Early in the primaries, when Trump was quite rude and wouldn't apologize, my thought was "He has no shame. He's shameless." And then I realized that's a large part of his appeal to his followers. He's not just offering to soften the pain of poverty with promises of quick economic turn-arounds, he's offering to wash away the shame people feel about their lives and their thoughts and impulses. Since shame can be so painful and so enduring, this is quite a 'high' he is offering.
posted by puddledork at 7:46 AM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

The PoT(T) question has been much discussed. Here's an answer: Party of (Strom) Thurmond and Trump.
posted by dis_integration at 7:47 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is Trump's lame attempt at racking up "diplomatic experience" because he has a lot to catch up on since his rival was you know, Secretary of State. He will milk this as some sort of evidence of how much he is an ambassador and he knows all about them foreign countries. Believe me.
posted by like_neon at 7:47 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

I expect to be amazed that Trump gets over 40% of the popular vote on election day running a slipshod, clown-car-full-of-idiots campaign, reading song lyrics about cheatin' instead of offering any kind of real policy plans.

I hope it's no more than 44%, but damn it people what the hell.
posted by readery at 7:49 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

From now on I'm saying PO[S]T(T) and anyone who asks can blame Meredith's Steve.
posted by dis_integration at 7:52 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yes but you can pronounce POT(T) like potty.
posted by mochapickle at 7:52 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why the hell is Trump meeting Nieto?

If I thought the Trump campaign was about hardnosed political realism, my answer would be something along the lines of "they want to stimulate their voter base by letting them get angry when Trump gets viciously booed by the evil Mexican hordes." But I don't think that's their plan at all, partially because it would make at least a little sense and partially because I can never see Trump agreeing to be humiliated in such a fashion.

I think they're doing it because they were invited. People have noted that Trump keeps having rallies in places he is either not ever going to win or places he will definitively win, and the reason for that is because the Trump campaign isn't really organizing those rallies centrally: instead, supporters in those areas get together what's needed for a rally that Trump would like to attend, do the groundwork for the campaign, and then the campaign says "sure, you saved us some work" because it's a lazy campaign for a lazy candidate. I think the exact same thing happened here. Nieto invited Trump out and he and his campaign didn't think about it for longer than a minute, they just said "hey, the President of Mexico invited us to a thing, let's go!" and that's literally all that happened.

It's colossally stupid and incredibly lazy, given that Trump is giving control of a public appearance to someone with every incentive to hate and humiliate him, so it's the most likely way this transpired.
posted by mightygodking at 7:53 AM on August 31, 2016 [35 favorites]

> "'But I’ll tell you,' Conway added. 'If we were physiologically — not mentally, emotionally, professionally — equal to men, if we were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist. You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.'"

Ironically, four years ago Conway advised Republican candidates to never, ever discuss or bring up the subject of rape, because they're invariably so horrible on the subject. [real]
posted by kyrademon at 8:03 AM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

Why did Mexico's president Nieto invite Trump to visit?
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:06 AM on August 31, 2016

An Open Letter to Working Mothers From Hillary Clinton
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:08 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why did Mexico's president Nieto invite Trump to visit?

Honestly? I think he's going to do his best to embarrass Trump badly. Trump is quite understandably loathed in Mexico now, and Nieto is unpopular and needs to boost his approval rating. If they appear together, Trump blathers something stupid, and then Nieto does the diplomatic version of "no, fuck you" - that's gotta be worth some points in the next poll for him.
posted by mightygodking at 8:09 AM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Nieto invited Trump out and he and his campaign didn't think about it for longer than a minute, they just said "hey, the President of Mexico invited us to a thing, let's go!" and that's literally all that happened.

It's colossally stupid and incredibly lazy, given that Trump is giving control of a public appearance to someone with every incentive to hate and humiliate him, so it's the most likely way this transpired.

Can Trump Be This Stupid? (Not a Trick Question)

Trump's Razor - "Ascertain the stupidest possible scenario that can be reconciled with the available facts and that answer is likely correct." - beats Betteridge's Law of Headlines in this case.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:13 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

The logistics are also pretty crazy: there's a morning fundraiser in California (PDT), then a 3hrs-plus flight to Mexico City (CDT) then a 3hr flight back to Phoenix (MST) where the immigration speech rally is scheduled to start at 6pm. It's 8.11am in Phoenix and California right now: he's got ten hours and about seven of them are travel time.

Have they looked at a map of Mexico recently?
posted by holgate at 8:13 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm conflicted. As much as I enjoy the idea of Trump being humiliated, I feel like Mexico, Russia and any other country should not actively interfere in our elections. On the other hand, Trump made the decision to go there. But that line of argument assumes that Trump should be considered competent enough to be responsible for his own decisions.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:17 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Then he has to fly back to New York so he can sleep at home.
posted by maryr at 8:17 AM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

Another theory I've seen batted about on the Twitters is that Nieto invited both of them, but only Trump accepted. Clinton probably assumes that skirting the law when it comes to the Logan Act will be treated much differently by the press when it comes to her than it will to Trump, so no trip for her.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:19 AM on August 31, 2016 [24 favorites]

“But I’ll tell you,” Conway added. “If we were physiologically — not mentally, emotionally, professionally — equal to men, if we were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist. You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.”

Whaa..? Isn't this the same KellyAnne Conway who said that rape is "four letter word" for male Republican candidates?

Like, wow, no wonder Republican men in Congress keep putting their feet in their mouths regarding sexual assault.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:21 AM on August 31, 2016

"As much as I enjoy the idea of Trump being humiliated, I feel like Mexico, Russia and any other country should not actively interfere in our elections."

I don't know, is it really interfering? It just seems like Neito is being friendly and helpful and handing him some more rope.
posted by komara at 8:23 AM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

Then he has to fly back to New York so he can sleep at home.

According to Forbes, he owns a house in Beverly Hills, but also stays at the Beverly Hills Hotel from time to time.
posted by anastasiav at 8:24 AM on August 31, 2016

The logistics are also pretty crazy

He really has a fundraiser in the morning as well? It *is* kind of insane. Even with a private jet and bypassing security:

Fundraiser to LAX (assuming the fundraiser is in LA): 45 mins
LAX -> MEX: 4 hours
MEX to Nieto's... office?: I don't know, let's call it 1 hour.
Meeting: 1 hour - this is assuming Nieto is just waiting around for Trump to show up and can start as soon as he arrives.
Back to MEX: 1 hour
MEX -> PHX: 3 hours
PHX to rally: I don't know, let's call it an hour.

This is already 12 hours. This Phoenix rally is going to be really really late.
posted by like_neon at 8:26 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump In Mexico: Americans Not Okay With Influence Of Foreign Leader | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:27 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

According to Forbes, he owns a house in Beverly Hills, but also stays at the Beverly Hills Hotel from time to time.

That's probably where he was last night after the WA rally (refs to CA fundraiser here, but none are specific about location), but he's got an Ohio event at noon tomorrow, so it's probably back to NYC after Phoenix.

All of the campaign press covering Trump are in Phoenix already.
posted by holgate at 8:30 AM on August 31, 2016

From CHT's link, there's a very good point: Trump is going to be tired, and when he gets tired he goes off script and starts making mistakes. Not a great idea when he has the big immigration speech planned.
posted by mochapickle at 8:30 AM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Trump heard the invitation and got himself all excited about a chance to play at being a president. Presidents meet with leaders! Presidents are powerful! I am a powerful person. Now I get to show (and feel) all important and presidential.

He's a selfish nit and this visit is really at it's core about how it's gonna make Donald feel inside. Yes I'm sure that he has some idea about how it's good political strategy and likely some plan in his head of what he's gonna do to help his campaign but it's likely not logical and just stupid.

This visit is about stroking his ego and making him feel like a big man inside his head.
posted by Jalliah at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

Which all increases the chance of Trump going splendidly off-message: who knows what state he'll be in after whatever happens in Mexico followed by a few hours stewing in a low pressure cabin.
posted by Devonian at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is it necessarily certain that he would be meeting Pena Nieto in Mexico City? There's other decently sized cities in Mexico with commercial airports - why not TJ?
posted by LionIndex at 8:32 AM on August 31, 2016

The only plan (in a crazy world where Trump made plans) I can think of for the Mexico thing would be this:

1. Go to Mexico to be "diplomatic" and "Presidential"

2. A threat, real, or imagined, against the candidate arises.

3. Trump is whisked home and makes a speech about how dangerous Mexico is ("I barely made it out!") and how much we need a wall.
posted by mmoncur at 8:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

I hope Trump brings Peña Nieto some Play-Doh.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:33 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yeah, the chyron on MSNBC says the meeting is in Mexico City.
posted by mochapickle at 8:33 AM on August 31, 2016

I'd just like to see him eat the fruit out of the finger bowls like Pacino in Scarface.
posted by valkane at 8:34 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

An Open Letter to Working Mothers From Hillary Clinton

Thanks, Hills! (But ugh the comments what. the. hell. If we're not allowed to pay people more for their work because that will wreck the economy, and we're not allowed to have entitlement programs because lazy people, but it's bad that so many working people are in poverty then... what is the solution???)
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:35 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

Nieto is the president of Mexico. I would find it hard to believe Nieto would meet Trump in Tijuana when he's the one who invited Trump to meet him, no matter how nice the Holiday Inn conference rooms are.
posted by like_neon at 8:36 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump Zeroes In On Specific Hispanic Vote | Morning Joe | MSNBC

"Either it's rope-a-dope, or it's 'What does Peña Nieto have to lose?'"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:42 AM on August 31, 2016

I asked google if Trump has ever been to Mexico and turned up a nonexistent condo scam in Tijuana, whose investors sued him after believing, for some reason, that "Trump Ocean Resort Baja Mexico" was a project of the Trump organization. Spoiler: he settled for an 'undisclosed amount'. That's all great stuff but I'm still not sure if he's ever been to Mexico??
posted by theodolite at 8:43 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

That schedule timing is insane.

Either his campaign people are trying to show an even lower level of competence to plan it this way or what I think is even more likely is that Trump pitched an absolute fit about wanting to go to Mexico. Because his brain has immigration so tied with Mexico that it just has to be on the same day as his big speech because he'll be able to SHOW people how serious and important he is during the speech.

I'll bet that people tried to talk some sense about it and Trump pulled his angry man baby thing. I wonder how many people were threatened and yelled at. I expect quite a few.

"I wanna go to Mexico and I wanna go nooooooow." *stamps foot*
posted by Jalliah at 8:43 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I think one sociological aspect of Trump support that people are missing is that the Donald is the kind of boss that people know and experience regularly. Sure he is pretty much Boss Hogg but almost everyone has had a Boss Hogg or two in their lives. People understand a Boss Hogg. Boss Hoggs are everywhere.

Super-achievers like Barrack and Hillary are the kind of the people who rocket the hell out of the kind of places that most people experience day in and day out. They are pretty alien to the majority of the population.
posted by srboisvert at 8:44 AM on August 31, 2016 [27 favorites]

"Señor Trump, I have invited you here today so that I may show you the proper way to tie a necktie." [fake]
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

I hope that Trump has a reasonable, nuanced discussion with a Peña Nieto, but not the Peña Nieto who runs the country. Then at the end the real guy comes out and says "This idiot didn't even recognize me!"
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

There could also be a real possibility that Trump does not intend to actually visit Mexico and will scuttle the plans due to "security issues."
posted by Tevin at 8:49 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump's going to come back and talk about meeting the Mexican president, and pronounce his name "PEE-na NEE-toe."
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:51 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

If he calls him NEAT-O I'll eat Talez's leftover right shoe.
posted by mochapickle at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Talez: Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio has trounced 3 Republican rivals to win the GOP nomination in his bid for a 7th term The knowledge that Arpaio's personal fiefdom of brutality will continue for four more years is enough to make someone clinically depressed. We talk about theoretical oppression as a result of people getting elected but Sheriff Joe's everyday brutality has resulted in 24 years of minority oppression and terror with at least another four years to go.

I almost never jump in to answer before reading the full thread, so this may have been covered, but: don't despair yet! Paul Penzone is the Democratic challenger to Arpaio, and is well positioned this round. He lost the last race against Sheriff Joe, but this time the winds have shifted. I'm optimistic for November.
posted by Superplin at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Dear Mr. Trump,

As a Latino, I'd like to advise you that there is no better way to appeal to Mexicans than to dress as Bumblebee Man.

Por favor.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:58 AM on August 31, 2016 [69 favorites]

he's offering to wash away the shame people feel about their lives and their thoughts and impulses

I think this, combined wth the unspoken racism of the class and entitlement resentment discussed above, is the ball game -- that that shame comes from the two big American lies, one of the American Dream and one of racism. This is where those two lies meet to become something worse. Discussing one without the other is incomplete, at best, dishonest at worst.

And then there's the way the right has taken those lies and fed them through a Mad Men style messaging machine, where they've come out powerful and palatable, and on tv all the damn time.

We need our vast left wing conspiracy, at this point. So many years of lies to combat, so much messaging to undo.

Where the fuck IS Soros? I'm kind of kidding and kind of not.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:58 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

holgate: The logistics are also pretty crazy

like_neon: He really has a fundraiser in the morning as well? It *is* kind of insane. Even with a private jet and bypassing security

From ChurchHatesTucker's link: Donald Trump In Mexico: Americans Not Okay With Influence Of Foreign Leader | MSNBC

NBC News contributor and attorney, Raul Reyes: I would not want Trump tired from running down to Mexico for this high profile meeting. We know that when he's tired, he goes off-script, he gets very snappy, he acts out. I do not think this is was from that standpoint alone.

MSNBC’s Stephanie Ruhle: Charlie, Raul is worried about Donald Trump's stamina tonight, his cheeriness tonight....

Ooh, the shade of it all.

But then Stephanie went on to call Donnie a "charming, charming man in person" -- are we talking about the same Donny who said that Mexicans are coming to the US to rape people? Who talked about the blood coming out of Megyn Kelly because she was tough on him in a debate? Yeah, let's re-think that charm you mentioned.

At least Charlie Sykes, who is on Team NeverTrump, doesn't see this playing well. And for all of Stephanie's efforts to push a potential positive spin, both Raul and Charlie are not supporting the idea that Donnie has any chance of making this stunt work for anyone other than his existing fanbase. Raul even lays out how the "leave and come back" plan doesn't work, and that there's no clear way to identify "the good guy."

At least we get to laugh along at the Mexican polls of support, which put 77% behind Hillary and 3% behind Donnie. That's right - single digit support, 20 points lower than Nieto.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:00 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I also just realized that the phrasing about "big lies" is PROBLEMATIC AS FUCK

Goddammit, I just want less bullshit. And my dream job is to be the left wing feminazi Koch Bros, so if anyone wants to give me billions of dollars, I promise you will not regret it.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:01 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

I found three new articles touching on race and the election. Trump's talking about, rather than to, Black citizens to court white voters is nothing new: It's the gold standard for the PoT(T) and has been for years.

First up is the always insightful Jamelle Bouie's What Black People Hear When Donald Trump Asks for Their Vote. In this piece, Bouie discusses how the Republican candidate's "outreach" and revisionist history is par for the course in the PoT(T) and has been for years.

In this narrative, black Americans are mere objects—means to a partisan end. They do not choose or act as political agents. There are no black politicians or activists or leaders of any stripe. Instead, they are acted upon, tools of Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party. And worse, despite the horrors of Democratic governance, they don’t understand that they’ve been used and “betrayed.” They still vote for Democrats in overwhelming numbers. They are dupes.

Trump’s argument isn’t new. It is de rigueur among conservative personalities to blame the Republican Party’s poor performance with black voters on a “plantation mentality,” in which blacks are kept hopelessly dependent on government benefits and the Democratic Party that peddles them. The goal: to keep black Americans from grasping the truth that prosperity comes from “liberty” and free markets. You can hear this perspective throughout right-wing media, from Fox News and popular websites like Townhall, to films like Dinesh D’Souza’s Hillary’s America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party and Pritchett Cotten’s Runaway Slave, a documentary that claims to show how “people can break free from a form of modern slavery caused by relying on welfare,” and in which a black conservative—the Rev. C.L. Bryant—is the titular “runaway slave” who escapes the implied Democratic “plantation.”

In the second article, North Carolina Republicans Accused of Dodging Order to Fix Election Rules, the New York Times covers accusations that Republican controlled county elections boards in North Carolina are trying to do an end run around the recent court ruling striking down oppressive voting restrictions. With policies like these ones, is it any wonder Black people vote overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates?

“Does anybody think that Democrats did not select early voting sites and set hours to advantage their voters over Republicans?” Dallas Woodhouse, the executive director of North Carolina’s Republican Party, wrote this week, referring to the days when the statehouse was in Democratic hands. “We are just attempting to rebalance the scales.”

That statement was in a letter to The Raleigh News & Observer, which stirred a small sensation this month after it acquired an email that Mr. Woodhouse had sent to Republican election-board members and other party stalwarts after the court ruling that invalidated the 2013 law.

In it, he stated that Republican election officials “can and should make party-line changes” to the rules governing early voting periods, and urged them to oppose other measures — like Sunday hours for early voting sites, and polling places on college campuses — that are commonly said to aid Democratic turnout.

Finally, we'll turn to Brian Beutler's New Republic piece entitled Donald Trump Has Blown Up Republicans’ Racism Defense. Beutler details some of the false equivalence reporting around the candidates' positions on race and the PoT(T)'s historical response to people pointing out their racist policies and verbiage.

Before Trump came along, it was black-letter law on the right that racism was an overstated problem, minor when held up against the more prevalent sin of false accusations of racism. [...]

Trump’s counterpoint to Clinton’s basic view that Trump is racist isn’t some exotic “alt-right” concoction either. It’s an argument inflected with Trump’s distinct brashness, but one that has a long pedigree in mainstream conservative thought. [...]

Calling Clinton a bigot is Trump’s clumsy way of trying to muddy up the very clear question of which presidential candidate is racist. But he’s only using this tactic because he’s seen conservatives use it before, under dimmer spotlights, to uncontroversial effect.

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:02 AM on August 31, 2016 [28 favorites]

Catching up on the thread- a few remarks.

I swear people see stuff in those DNC emails that I don't really see.
I think people here are disputing whether your view of what is "unbiased" is really unbiased

Going back to our (much) earlier journalism discussion, the DWS issue is a great example of why it's useless to demand newspapers print "truth." In this case, there is no truth. There is a limited set of facts, and after that, it's all, and only, interpretation.

Another theory I've seen batted about on the Twitters is that Nieto invited both of them, but only Trump accepted.

Not a theory, it's been reported.

Re: SSDI - a few years ago, This American Life did an exceptionally good episode on the proliferation of SSDI claims. It is very much worth a listen. One of the conclusions Chana Joffe-Walt presents is that the SSDI program has, in part, been a fig leaf for a wider economic collapse than previously known - particularly in manufacturing centers. In other words, the program has in part become a coverup for the failures of the private market to generate jobs. So again, it's really interesting that the right is so eager to blame individuals for systemic failures.
posted by Miko at 9:03 AM on August 31, 2016 [29 favorites]

Where the fuck IS Soros? I'm kind of kidding and kind of not.

George Soros' quiet overhaul of the U.S. justice system: Progressives have zeroed in on electing prosecutors as an avenue for criminal justice reform, and the billionaire financier is providing the cash to make it happen.

Newsmax, Breitbart, etc. are predictably frothing at the mouth.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:04 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

(Also to clarify further, the other lie is the one about white supremacy and the justifications for it)
posted by schadenfrau at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2016

Trump’s argument isn’t new. It is de rigueur among conservative personalities to blame the Republican Party’s poor performance with black voters on a “plantation mentality,” in which blacks are kept hopelessly dependent on government benefits and the Democratic Party that peddles them.

This is another example of the right co-opting a concept originating in the left. The notion of a "plantation mentality," like "double consciousness" and lots of other rubrics, gained currency during the black power/liberation movements. A lot of my teachers in grade school used this term to urge students to work harder and desire conventional forms of success in work and academia. Oprah has used it. It's somewhat sickening to me to see it borrowed and twisted by a mostly-white right-wing ruling class to justify further oppression.
posted by Miko at 9:12 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Stephanie went on to call Donnie a "charming, charming man in person"

I'm sure he can be. I doubt it's sincere, but I'm sure it's a tool he has.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:14 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's a shame that Trump's tight timetable won't allow him to hang with his friend who builds all those factories in Mexico. Given how entertaining the revelations about his personal doctor was, I was hoping for more Coen Brothers character fun.
posted by Devonian at 9:17 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Excommunicated Cardinal: one of the lines at last night's trumpstump that drives home Bouie's point, while talking ostensibly about the alleged horrors of the inner city experience: "you see it every night when you turn on the news."
Like... how enragingly, insultingly tone-deaf, yet certainly intentional a phrase, delivered to a crowd of white people during his 'reaching out to African Americans' part of the speech. I mean... I get it, but, Jesus fuck.
posted by rp at 9:18 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

> "It's a shame that Trump's tight timetable won't allow him to hang with his friend who builds all those factories in Mexico."

Frankly, I mentally replace each of the dozens of unnamed acquaintances Trump brings up in his speeches whenever he wants to support a point with "my girlfriend who lives in Canada, you don't know her". They're equally real.
posted by kyrademon at 9:23 AM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

You can clearly see Bouie's point every time Trump uses a pronoun. When talking about the red meat white working class issues, he uses first person plural pronouns. We are going to do things for us. When talking about people of color, he uses second and third-person pronouns. You have things wrong with your community. He's definitely not talking to people of color. He may be talking at them, but mostly he's just giving white suburban Republicans a reason to not feel racist for voting for him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on August 31, 2016 [36 favorites]

So, Clinton has a speech in Cincinnati.

Live feed here.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:27 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think I need a documentary about the people who hang out in YouTube chat to repeat the same words over and over and over. Who are these people?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hey twitter how many days left until the election?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think I need a documentary about the people who hang out in YouTube chat to repeat the same words over and over and over. Who are these people?

Bots and paid Russian trolls?
posted by Existential Dread at 9:34 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

Hillary is speaking now.
posted by cashman at 9:39 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Atlantic on why Mexicos president might be meeting with Trump.

Based on that myguess is that there's some prearranged outcome they've decided on where EPN will announce he backed Trump down but Trump gets to look like he has negotiated some compromise. Neither will likely see much gain in popularity from a weak publicity stunt like that.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:41 AM on August 31, 2016

This off-to-Mexico thing reminds me of September 2008 when McCain made a surprise call to suspend the campaigns to handle the financial crisis bailout. McCain called Bush to propose he hold a conference, but Bush cautioned against it since it would inject campaign politics into the delicate negotiations with Congress underway. As soon as he hung up the phone, in direct contradiction to Bush's recommendation, McCain held a news conference demanding Bush announce a meeting.

So McCain and Obama suspend their campaigns and go to Washington to meet with Bush and Treasury Secretary Paulson along with congressional leaders. Obama peppered the Treasury Secretary with detailed questions for 40 minutes while McCain sat silent. Finally Obama, wondering about the point of the meeting asked McCain for his opinion on matters. McCain had nothing. Even Dick Cheney was brought to laughter by scene. The whole meeting was a pointless stunt by McCain in an attempt to save his failing campaign.

You can read the amusing first person account from Bush's Secretary Paulson by googling "When Mr. McCain Came to Washington" to get around the WSJ paywall.
posted by JackFlash at 9:47 AM on August 31, 2016 [40 favorites]

Who are these people?

Centipedes?
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 AM on August 31, 2016

Hillary at the American Legion National Convention (OH)

HRC: Person elected will be CinC. I will be president of all Americans. I spent for years as SofS, eight in Senate, six on Armed Services Comittee. We are the indispensable nation. OThers look to us. Actions affect billions of lives. Opponent thinks American exceptionalism is offensive. When we say America is exceptional we mean it has unique place, position to lead. America must lead, question is how. Our network of allies is part of exceptionalism. Often fight side by side. Threatening to walk away from allies is wrong, dangerous. Must bring world together. Fighting Isis, bringing Iran to the table. It's like building personal relationships, can't say one thing one day another the next.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:52 AM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

HRC talking about the international coalition, started by the US, to stop ISIS.

Also now talking about some of the operation to get Bin Laden.
posted by cashman at 9:53 AM on August 31, 2016

So McCain and Obama suspend their campaigns and go to Washington to meet with Bush and Treasury Secretary Paulson along with congressional leaders. Obama peppered the Treasury Secretary with detailed questions for 40 minutes while McCain sat silent.

My recollection was that only McCain suspended his campaign, and it was seen as a deeply bizarre move that only served to sink his candidacy further.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:54 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

During the Peña numero campaign I had to ignore most of my relatives and friends on Facebook.

I know, because they were proud to say it, that many of them voted for him because:

1- all candidates are the same, corrupt and evil.
2- Peña nieto is the best looking one.
3- Peña nieto has a hot wife/girlfriend.
4- I'd rather spend the next 6 years looking at good looking people on TV and presidential portraits than looking at ugly people.

Does any of this look familiar to anyone?

Maybe Peña nieto wants to show Trump an advance copy of his upcoming 'how to be a telegenic idiot with a hot wife and no platform and still make it to president' book.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 9:55 AM on August 31, 2016 [25 favorites]

Yeah, Obama's soundbite as I recall at the time was along the lines of not suspending his campaign to deal with the financial crisis because he "can do more than one thing at a time" or such.
posted by cortex at 9:55 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine will be in Cleveland on Monday at the 11th Congressional District Community Caucus Labor Day Festival.
Hillary will also be in Hampton, Illinois on Monday at the 49th Annual Salute to Labor.
posted by cashman at 9:59 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

HRC is hitting Trump on him saying the military was a disaster. She's running through a few different policies and talking about her positions.

'The last thing we need is a president who brings more name calling and temper tantrums to the White House'.
posted by cashman at 10:00 AM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

HRC: our diversity is our strength, look at our armed forces. I was part of the small group advising Obama when we killed Osama.

Details the raid.

HRC: opponent is wrong when he says America no longer great. Look at 2009, look where we are now. Withdrew troops, stopped Iran developing nukes, drew down nukes with Russia. Can't cosy dictators, need to destroy ISIS. We have better days ahead, but could get worse. Critical we get this right. Troops in harm's way as last resort, not first choice. I reject calling the military a disaster. Just not true. Give Pentagon stable, predictable funds. No sequester.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:00 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

HRC: One of the first things I will do as president is call for a full nuclear posture review.
posted by cashman at 10:01 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

@jorge_guajardo: This is how Mexico's best cartoonist, @CartonCalderon, sees the visit.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:02 AM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

I'm imagining a farce of a meeting that's just a battle of dominance signaling starting way before the meeting even happens. There's a hotel mix-up and EPN's personal phone call gets it sorted out. Trump needs the meeting time changed. EPNs people tell him the wrong conference room. Trump requests a certain bottled water he knows they don't have. EPN is 10 minutes late. Trump squeezes his hand too hard. Trumps chair is two inches shorter.
posted by ctmf at 10:03 AM on August 31, 2016 [22 favorites]

HRC saying America will respond to cyberattacks like any other attack.

HRC: I will never ever disrespect Gold Star families, or prisoners of war. To do so is wrong, and says something about the person doing it.
posted by cashman at 10:03 AM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

My recollection was that only McCain suspended his campaign.

Well, the "suspension" barely lasted 24 hours. Both McCain and Obama had to cancel scheduled campaign stops to attend the pointless meeting in Washington that McCain had embarrassed Bush into calling. Obama at the time said that when the President calls you to a meeting, you go.
posted by JackFlash at 10:04 AM on August 31, 2016

Brent Spiner has something to share.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2016 [22 favorites]

I'm watching the speech with CC and I'm seeing a lot of "applause" mentions. How is that translating? It sounds like a great speech but that's a tough crowd.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2016

Fred Clark at Slacktivist: Talking to Republican friends at the Trumpian crossroads:

I’m thinking here, instead, of all the Very Nice People I know in white evangelicalism, Republicans all, who find themselves at a crossroads — forced to choose whether they will follow this path even all the way to Donald Trump. I am not thinking here in the abstract, but of very specific individuals — people I know and like, people I respect despite our deep political disagreements, people I’ve learned from and people I admire. I’m thinking of friends, relatives, church-members, teachers, authors, writers and correspondents.

I don’t want to defeat these folks in a scorched-earth total victory, I want to help them make the right choice at this Trumpian crossroads. I don’t want to shame them, but to help them escape the potential shame they’re in jeopardy of acquiring.

posted by palindromic at 10:10 AM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

I'm watching the speech with CC and I'm seeing a lot of "applause" mentions.

It's light but appropriate applause. The things she's talking about are serious. A moment ago she was talking about traumatic brain injuries and helping vets through ptsd. But to my ear, a lot of the loudest applause is when contrasting herself against Trump. Mostly though, it's a solemn, strong speech. This is actually how these things should sound. Like we're adults, not grade school children.
posted by cashman at 10:11 AM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

HRC: modernize forces, reduce nukes, secure nuke material against terrorists. Secure cyberspace. I will make it clear we treat cyberattacks like any other attack. Most important thing is our people who serve. Work to attract and keep the best, provide for them and families. I'll never disrespect gold star families, POWs. I fought for guard, reserve family health care, veterans, hospitals. We're going to reform VA, not privatize it. Treat all wound, visible and invisible. too many lost to suicide. Serve them like they served us. Make easier for vets to get loans, credit for skills.

HRC listen to what I and opponent propose. Election is about who has experience and temperament. 50 Republican advisors said will not vote Trump. I have support on both sides of aisle. Stakes are as high as any election in our lives. I've laid out plans. No one will work harder for vets.

Talks about dad in navy
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:12 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Polite applause according to my stream. (In other news I hit See Chat by accident and the very first thing I saw was someone depicting shooting Hillary using emoji. Thanks 2016, I love you!)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:12 AM on August 31, 2016

HRC: I've worked with members as Senator and secretary. I expect Legion to be my partner in white house you deserve a country that honors your service. Thank you and God bless.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:15 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I expect Legion to be my partner in white house

Wait, what?

Yes, I know it's a typo.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:16 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

CLINTON/HERD OF DEVIL SWINE '16
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2016 [31 favorites]

Tim Kaine contains multitudes, guys.
posted by kalimac at 10:21 AM on August 31, 2016 [26 favorites]

Not a typo. Context was about being a partner in promoting veterans affairs.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:21 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Don't blame me; I voted for Pazuzu.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:22 AM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Aww hell I posted this in the last thread but it's even more apropos today:

El Corrido de Donald Trump yt . - Los Tres Tristes Tigres (Mexico City)

Translated by Google:

The Corrido of Donald Trump. - The Three Sad Tigers (Mexico City)

Lyrics:

Normally corridos
we write to people
not arrogant bastards
mented as that Donald
my respect for duck
that if it is cool

It is little old millionaire
I think his last name is French horn
it seems that betrays
because I never controls
I think that brings connected
with a tail artery

If the then crapped the embarró
cost that much foolishness
as it happens to be so hocicón
and nobody wants poor Donald Trump

Mexico sends says
Frenchy pal waste
we only crime
more problems and bitterness
that little mouth so flojita
you'll see how hard

Ah that disrespect
already fails the cerebellum
really it is very harmful
Nomás to see big falls
and hairstyle not fool me
pa me that lends hair

Now Univisión and fired
to NBC gas also gave
and Carlos Slim think I ran
and to recognize that apendejó

[It's not perfect, and didn't recognize that Los Tres Tristes Tigres was The Three Sad Tigers until I made Tristes and Tigres singular, but it gets you most of the way there]
posted by filthy light thief at 10:22 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cootie catchers. They're called "cootie catchers."

We never had cooties because we all got our cootie shots. Of course, this was a time before anti-vax people told us that circle-circle-dot-dot was GUARANTEED to give us autism.
posted by dw at 10:23 AM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

I was a poll worker for yesterday's state primaries here in Maricopa County. It was... excruciatingly dull, for the most part, since after March's fiasco lots more people have signed up for early voting by mail (we had quite a few drop-offs of early ballots), plus as a smaller, precinct-level primary there was never going to be a huge turnout. Still, less than 100 people over the course of 15 hours (during which the polls were ope for 13) makes for a very long day.

However, it did offer me the chance to get to know my fellow poll workers, who turned out to be very pleasant company overall. There were five of us: three retirees, myself, and a 22-year-old guy who was recruited the day before when he came into the room during setup to see what we were doing, and the team leader probed him about his voting status and availability since we were short-handed based on standard staffing requirements.

The young guy is a part-time custodian for the church we were assigned to and the rest of the time is a musician--apparently a successful one. His web site says he "raps for Jesus," but over the course of the day I learned he was kicked out of school for drugs and other shenanigans, swears like a sailor (or rapper, I guess), and is engaged to be married next year. I introduced him to Hamilton. We had a fun time talking and joking around. He is registered as a Republican, supports gun control, and has a "Hillary for Prison 2016" bumper sticker on the back of his car which he said he bought from InfoWars.

Our team leader was a lovely 72-year-old woman with a black belt in tai kwon do, who has lived here since 1962 but (like me) grew up in Missouri. She is registered as a Republican "so I can have a say in who actually gets on the ballot." She thinks we need stronger gun laws and is horrified that guns are now permitted in bars, and thinks our country is going downhill. "It's not what it used to be, 40, 50 years ago," she said. "I think it's becoming a police state." When she first moved to Arizona, she said, it was a Democratic state, but that all changed after Goldwater.

My fellow ePollbook worker is a retired Vet and devout Catholic in his 80s, a registered Republican who complained about whatshisname's flag protest early in the morning and later in the day expressed some surprise and disappointment when it emerged that I was the token registered Democrat of the group. (Some polling station duties require two people registered with different political parties to protect against actual, or the appearance of, partisan influence.) He said most of the state was glad when Janet Napoletano left the governorship to become Obama's head of Homeland Security. I responded that I had only just arrived at that point and didn't know much about Napoletano's record, but found it hard to believe anyone could be a worse state leader than Jan Brewer. We mostly didn't talk about politics.

The last poll worker in the group is the team leader's next-door neighbor, doing this for the first time like myself. Registered as an independent. He is in his early 60s and vocal about his distaste for most politics, especially the presidential candidates. He has spent his life working in specialized trades surrounding the automotive industry, and moved to Arizona six years ago. He and I talked about cars and music and confessed our shared lack of religiosity while placing the outside signs. He thinks politics are all about corrupt people wanting and abusing power, and scoffs at the idea of public service. He's excited about the new season of Dancing With The Stars because Maureen McCormick is going to be on it, and "the Brady Bunch is right in my wheelhouse, generation-wise," even though he shook his head over her "antics after the show ended."

All in all, it was a fascinating day, both in terms of seeing the mechanics of the electoral process up close, and getting to know some people with whom I normally wouldn't interact much. I'm hoping to do it again in November, which I'm sure will be a very different kind of experience.
posted by Superplin at 10:24 AM on August 31, 2016 [45 favorites]

I'm imagining a farce of a meeting that's just a battle of dominance signaling starting way before the meeting even happens.

I'm imagining like a national geographic special set to Benny Hill
posted by schadenfrau at 10:28 AM on August 31, 2016

Clearly she means David Haller, who had overcome great personal challenges to become one of the earths most powerful psychic mutants.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

“But I’ll tell you,” Conway added. “If we were physiologically — not mentally, emotionally, professionally — equal to men, if we were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist. You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.”

It's why every fight between dudes ends in a stalemate and a handshake.

We joke so we don't cry, but the reality is that she and her ilk are the kind of people who really are soaking in just-world fallacy and worship at the altar of power and machismo. There's not a doubt in my mind that a big part of her subconscious really believes that the person who wins the physical conflict is the one who deserved to win. When someone doesn't it's because they did something wrong (whydja wear that short skirt if you didn't want it?) or instigated a fight with their betters or they were thwarted by outside forces (they totally would have shot that dude and prevented the tragedy if you libs had allowed them to be armed/if they'd chosen to arm themselves).
posted by phearlez at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

Not a typo. Context was about being a partner in promoting veterans affairs.

Oh, like the American Legion. Where she's speaking. D'oh!
posted by zombieflanders at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I should have added: No one mentioned Trump's name all day. Not even once.
posted by Superplin at 10:31 AM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

Looking forwards to that becoming normal again.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on August 31, 2016 [35 favorites]

I was a poll worker for yesterday's state primaries here in Maricopa County....

Thanks, I love that kinda stuff. People's particularities are so interesting. (Although, coming from California, it kind of shocks and horrifies me how many states are wasting money on having two primaries this year - one for the presidential race and another for everything else downballot.)
posted by psoas at 10:38 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hey twitter how many days left until the election?

If Twitter's busy, ask Bill & Ted.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:38 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clinton hits Trump's Mexico trip: 'That is not how it works'

Clinton repeatedly mocked Trump and his ubiquitous “Make America Great Again” slogan. Thanking veterans in attendance for their service and putting their lives “on the line to protect the greatest country on earth,” Clinton noted, “Some may argue with that, but not around me.”

posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:39 AM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Here is another anti-Trump point: He's a national distraction.
Trump: Bad for business, terrible for productivity.

I am going to have to put all my work projects on hold just to keep up with his insanity. I'm 600 comments behind on this thread alone, not to mention my news feeds. I think we should try to measure national productivity since he has been on the scene - I bet it has plummeted, with a commensurate spike in tweets and cable news viewing.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

MEX to Nieto's... office?: I don't know, let's call it 1 hour.
Meeting: 1 hour - this is assuming Nieto is just waiting around for Trump to show up and can start as soon as he arrives.
Back to MEX: 1 hour

And that tight schedule alone gives Nieto plenty of opportunity to mess with Trump's head. For starters, ensure that Nieto is not just waiting around for Trump to show up and start as soon as he arrives. Make him wait. I know little of Nieto, but if he's clever, he can arrange to have the Mexico City security services slow-walk Trump's entourage so the trip there (and back) take a little longer than they should, and then, gosh darn it, he would have been ready for Trump but some important state business just came up, so would he kindly wait 20 minutes?

Nieto doesn't even have to extend a middle finger; just subtly fail to roll out the red carpet, and Trump will feel the slight. And have a busy schedule on an important campaign day shot to hell.
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

it kind of shocks and horrifies me how many states are wasting money on having two primaries this year

So, Maine has a caucus instead of a primary for presidental stuff, and this year's was a huge disaster -- very long lines on the D side, mostly driven by Sanders folks.

Afterwards, there was a lot of buzz about "why don't we convert to a primary" to the extent that the chair of the Maine Dems made a statement that said, in essence, that the party would need to pay the State around $1M to cover costs for a primary, because the primary is a party-sponsored activity and not required by the constitution. Which might explain why there are two ... one is essentially "held" by the parties, and the other is held by the State itself.
posted by anastasiav at 10:59 AM on August 31, 2016

Does any of this look familiar to anyone?

Does Nieto also engage in populist nationalist rabble-rousing or nativism or any other tactics like other leaders such as May, Duterte, Abe, Modi, Bibi, Erdoğan, Putin, etc.? Because this pattern has been reoccurring so many times in the last few years, maybe we're not just living in Late Capitalism, but Late Democracy.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:00 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

I don't know that we should be ascribing noble motives to Nieto's invitation:
Why Is Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto So Unpopular?

Seems more like the last grasp publicity stunt of a floundering politician. But prove me wrong, Nieto!
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:01 AM on August 31, 2016

To go back to Trump's original presidential campaign announcement; some of the parts relevant to Mexico, annotated.

When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. [Laughter has been replaced by horror.] And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically. [United States economic growth, 2015: 2.4%. Mexico: 2.5%. US GDP per capita: $55,837. Mexico: $9,009. (Numbers from World Bank.)]

The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.

Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. [Unclear who he means.] When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. [Trump seems to think Mexico is selecting who to send.] They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. [In case, for any reason, you thought he said "some are rapists."]

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. [Do you believe Trump actually spoke to border guards before his campaign?] And it only makes common sense. [Why is any of this common sense? I can't even figure why he would think it is common sense.] It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:02 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

And have a busy schedule on an important campaign day shot to hell.

Could Peña be doing this as a favor to Clinton, on an "enemy of my enemy" sort of basis?
posted by wenestvedt at 11:02 AM on August 31, 2016

Maybe one of the benefits to Dernald of this trip is that it will give him an excuse to cancel the immigration speech?
posted by DanSachs at 11:02 AM on August 31, 2016

"Trump advisor tells CNN "the photo opp" was one of the main reasons Trump went to Mexico."

posted by airish at 11:12 AM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: An Open Letter to Working Mothers From Hillary Clinton

Now, no one says it’s supposed to be easy. But surely it doesn’t need to be quite this hard. That’s why it’s so important for our next president to sweat the details — and do everything possible to make life a little easier for working parents. Raising a family shouldn’t prevent anyone from furthering their own education, starting a business, or following their dreams.
...
We need affordable child care and paid family leave. We need to expand access to health care so that you and your kids will always be covered. And we need to make certain that you will always be able to make your own healthcare decisions. This isn't easy, but it's no harder than what Liz [our campaign bus driver, who makes a living driving shifts on chartered buses] does all the time: getting on the road, driving for hours, and leaving her kids behind.

But if we're going to make it possible for Liz to worry less, we need to make sure Donald Trump never becomes president. A man who says that “putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing” has no business running our country. And a man who characterizes pregnancy as “an inconvenience for a business” has no business running a company. His advice to a woman who asked how she might raise money to start a small business? That she ought to find a rich husband. This isn't a guy who even pays attention to reality, much less the details.

Or as Rev. Al Sharpton asked, do we really know what are his plans? You can't slogan your way into people to vote for you (focusing on the issue of appealing to PoC in this case, but it applies across the board - what is your record, what is your plan?)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:16 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

ugh "optics"
posted by stolyarova at 11:17 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I found this BBC piece on the increasing poverty in America's suburbs to be an interesting complement to all of the stories resulting from the media's sudden Trump-inspired interest in rural poverty, or at least white rural poverty.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:19 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump heard the invitation and got himself all excited about a chance to play at being a president. Presidents meet with leaders! Presidents are powerful! I am a powerful person. Now I get to show (and feel) all important and presidential.

Is it weird that I find it 100% plausible (and actually more plausible than any other explanation I've seen put forward) that the nominee for the Republican presidential ticket is going on an ill-advised last-second trip to a country he has spent the last 12 months openly antagonizing, just because he wants to LARP POTUS? 2016, man.
posted by Mayor West at 11:21 AM on August 31, 2016 [30 favorites]

"Trump advisor tells CNN "the photo opp" was one of the main reasons Trump went to Mexico."

I suppose that's probably a surprise to... someone?

Though who is taking the photo if he is dry gulching the press?
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Trump advisor tells CNN "the photo opp" was one of the main reasons Trump went to Mexico."

The first thing I thought about was when Kimmy Schmidt made a fake wedding photo album. In my experience, if someone has good pictures and a glue stick, they can make it look like they dunked on Jesus, and some girls will believe it, for, like, 15 years. (Transcript link)

Cue Donny's international whirlwind tour with heads of state, so he can have his video slide-show of shaking hands and looking serious with world leaders, which will play behind him at future events when he talks about how he's forged relationships around the world.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:22 AM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hard feelings in AZ:

“After refusing to debate while running a slash and burn campaign devoid of actual ideas, I hope the senator can rest comfortably with his conscience as he continues to lecture others about civility.”
— Kelli Ward (R), quoted by the Arizona Republic, after losing her primary challenge to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).
posted by Chrysostom at 1:45 PM on August 31 [+] [!] [quote]

Season of the sore loser.
posted by spitbull at 1:51 PM on August 31 [+] [!] [quote]

Good. Here's hoping it sticks around. I'm not interested in everyone running a scorched-earth campaign for eternity and DWS's challenger's "corporate stooge" comment is unnecessarily obnoxious and empty of content. But I think elections matter and differences between candidates matter. I don't think everyone needs to just instantly drop their passions the second they lose an election.

I'd have a lot more respect for Marco Rubio - and I think this is a pretty common opinion here - if he'd have stuck with calling out Trump on his awfulness after he dropped out of the race. If Ward think there's a problem of substance with McCain (though I am sure she and I would disagree on what it would be) good on her for not bounding up to the net and shaking hands at the end as if the outcome meant nothing.

I'd sure as shit take a little grar and compromise to achieve things over what we currently get in the House and Senate where there's such reverence for comity but no willingness to actually be co-workers.
posted by phearlez at 11:30 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

"Trump advisor tells CNN "the photo opp" was one of the main reasons Trump went to Mexico."

After this, he'll be halfway to being able to convincingly say "my Latino friends" in a speech.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I would not want Trump tired from running down to Mexico for this high profile meeting. We know that when he's tired, he goes off-script, he gets very snappy, he acts out.

This sounds like how you describe a poorly mannered toddler, not someone with a 1/4 chance of becoming President of the United States.
posted by Justinian at 11:32 AM on August 31, 2016 [27 favorites]

I'd frankly prefer corporate stooges to governance by the campus left.

DWS's form of corporate governance will get you payday lenders running amok (at least until the media exposure gets too uncomfortable). Be careful what you ask for.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:33 AM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Joe Scarborough releases music video mocking Donald Trump [real]
posted by stolyarova at 11:35 AM on August 31, 2016

Do we know what time the meeting in Mexico is supposed to happen?
posted by diogenes at 11:37 AM on August 31, 2016

high noon?
posted by entropicamericana at 11:38 AM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

4PM local time = 5PM eastern
posted by Perplexity at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2016

I wish I could be in the room when Trump sees that Scarborough video!
posted by diogenes at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2016

high noon?

Could all just be a promo for the new Westworld reboot.

Donald Trump: [after Being Bitten By A Robotic Snake] The hell, god dammit, that's not supposed to happen!
posted by My Dad at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Man, that Scarborough video is kind of gross. ""He said he'd deport Mexicans before they raped our wives/And ban a billion Muslims before they took white lives/But then he won the primary, and his courage took a dive." So... he's pissed that Trump isn't calling Mexicans rapists and talking about banning Muslims any more? Why is this guy employed by MSNBC again?
posted by Roommate at 11:46 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Scarborough was among the first to call Trump's comments on Muslims disqualifying. He wants Trump to lose, guys, the music video is mocking Trump. Not actually a statement about policy. Being a music video and all.
posted by Justinian at 11:53 AM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why is this guy employed by MSNBC again?

MSNBC spokesman: "I like money."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:53 AM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mr. Trump will depart Mexico City by 5:30 p.m. local time (6:30 p.m. Eastern) en route to Phoenix to deliver his immigration speech.

= 3.30pm Arizona time, for a three-hour flight with the rally scheduled to start at 6pm. Oh.kay.

...ensuring, I suppose, that the speech is most going to be reported tomorrow morning, in whatever coherent 15-second snippets the editors can grab, unless he falls off the stage.
posted by holgate at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2016

Marquette released a poll today showing Clinton up by only 3 in Wisconsin. Their previous poll was only 3 weeks ago and had Clinton up by 15. Come on, Marquette, are we supposed to take you seriously with that kind of swing in 3 weeks? I'm just going to assume it's really Clinton +8 or +9 and one of their shit polls was a huge overestimation and the other a huge underestimation of Clinton's support.
posted by Justinian at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2016

He wants Trump to lose, guys, the music video is mocking Trump. Not actually a statement about policy. Being a music video and all.

I get that, but it's totally possible, and easy, to mock Trump from, you know, a sane point of view. Happens quite often in these threads! Instead Joe's taking the... creative... stance of singing the song as if he was a white supremacist disappointed in Trump's (nonexistent) pivot. I'm kind of surprised he didn't throw a "cuck" in there.
posted by Roommate at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2016

From NYTimes link: Mr. Trump landed in Mexico City. He will travel, with his Secret Service detail, to the presidential palace in two helicopters to avoid the frequent gridlock on the capital’s highways. (As a result, Mr. Trump will avoid roadside protesters of his visit.)

• The meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Peña Nieto is scheduled to start by 4 p.m. local time and last for approximately 50 minutes. The Mexican president, who will be joined by his foreign minister, is expected to speak English at the meeting.

• Mr. Trump will focus on the positive, Mr. Rubin said, seeing the meeting as the start of a dialogue about shared economic interests and security interests. Mr. Rubin said he believed Mr. Trump would only briefly mention his intention to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border and to get Mexico to pay for it — a deeply offensive proposal to many Mexicans.

• Mr. Trump will depart Mexico City by 5:30 p.m. local time (6:30 p.m. Eastern) en route to Phoenix to deliver his immigration speech.

[my bold]

He will only briefly mention it? As an aside maybe? By the way, I'm still building the Wall and you guys are paying for it and if I hear anything negative it will get 10 feet taller. So shut it. Smile for the cameras.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:02 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Gov. LePage has declared he will not resign as he hinted at yesterday.

LePage announced that he would seek “spiritual guidance” with his wife and children.

But he said he would not seek “professional help” as Democrats had been urging him to do.

“I’m not an alcoholic and I’m not a drug addict and I don’t have mental issues,” LePage said. “What I have is a backbone, and I want to move Maine forward.”

Speaking to reporters, LePage vowed that he would that he would never again speak to the media, whom he accused of stoking controversies.

“I will no longer speak to the press ever again after today,” he said.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

“I will no longer speak to the press ever again after today,” he said.

The name "le Page" is French for "the page" -- which will now presumably remain blank forevermore... Or perhaps it will be filled in by a rival? So hard to guess the future here.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ali Vitali: Trump campaign tells me to anticipate remarks with Nieto between 3:30 and 3:45pET. No questions.

Maggie Haberman: Am told by campaign sources that they deferred to Nieto's office on whether to take questions. CM @KellyannePolls had encouraged open press.

Bruce W: If you can't convince Mexico to take questions, how can you get them to pay for a wall? #itsrhetorical

Well there is nothing stopping Trump from talking to the press and answering questions once he is back in the USA. Interesting that Nieto's office is setting the agenda.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:15 PM on August 31, 2016

Interesting that Nieto's office is setting the agenda.

He probably has people working for him who know what the fuck they're doing.
posted by dersins at 12:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [31 favorites]

The Mexican president, who will be joined by his foreign minister, is expected to speak English at the meeting.

What a shame they missed the opportunity to address Mr Trump in his native tongue, Gibberish.
posted by Grangousier at 12:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [24 favorites]

There is no bigger hypocrite than Joe Scarborough. More than any other single media, he & his insipid little sidekick and gang of toadies were instrumental in Trump's rise. JS had call-ins from Trump almost every day for months and they sucked up to him in a truly embarrassing fashion. They loved him and what he did for their ratings. At the same time, Joe hosted the daily Hilary hate, dishing out vicious criticisms which he still mostly does. He didn't close the barn door until the Trump horse was out in the field. Joe loves to play the reasonable republican but there is rarely a day that goes by that the mask doesn't start slipping and the true ugliness that is Morning Joe emerges. I don't know what went on with the intern that was found dead in his office, but odious Joe has no call to throw stones at anyone.
posted by madamjujujive at 12:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

TPM: Mexican Officials Never Actually Expected Trump To Show Up:

Several top-level Mexican officials and diplomats told the Washington Post on Tuesday that they were never informed that Trump had even been invited, or that he had announced on Twitter that he had scheduled a last-minute visit.

“It took by surprise many of the high-level officials in the government. Many people didn’t know,” a senior official told the Post. “Someone thought it was a very good idea just to send this letter, and they didn’t expect one of the candidates would say yes.”

posted by palindromic at 12:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [29 favorites]

That sounds stupid enough to be true.
posted by mazola at 12:22 PM on August 31, 2016 [29 favorites]

I'm pretty pleased that my first real awareness of Hillary Clinton centers around her efforts to bring national healthcare to America.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:22 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I’m tired of being caught in the gotcha moments

"Caught in the gotcha moments" is Republican for "quoted."
posted by dersins at 12:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [120 favorites]

palindromic: “It took by surprise many of the high-level officials in the government. Many people didn’t know,” a senior official told the Post. “Someone thought it was a very good idea just to send this letter, and they didn’t expect one of the candidates would say yes.”

mazola: That sounds stupid enough to be true.

Yeah, sounds like an attempt for quick positive, national news coverage for Nieto in Mexico, neither candidate to actually attend.

Secret Life of Gravy: Interesting that Nieto's office is setting the agenda.

They invited Donnie to their house, so they can set the rules. But it'll be interesting to hear what they say about/ in response to paying for the wall. I like to imagine there will be some eye-rolling.

Has there been an official response to Nieto's invitation from Hillary's campaign? I've only found her comments and a handy compilation of Donnie's tweets about Mexico.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:27 PM on August 31, 2016

Someone thought it was a very good idea just to send this letter, and they didn’t expect one of the candidates would say yes.

As I read this, I found myself sad that we do not have interstellar travel, because I'm sure it'd be easy as hell to use the Golgafrincham Solution on Trump and his stupporters.

(The misspelling was unintentional, but I found it hilarious and left it.)
posted by Mooski at 12:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

"I'm tired of reporters saying what I said to other people verbatim!"

This reminds me of a brief conversation I had on Facebook with a Trump supporter who claimed my idea of Trump was only informed by the biased media. I kept saying "No, these are his actual words, I'm not implying anything! He's saying it!"

The only response was "Standard libtard, unable to see the truth."

Then I exploded into bats. These are bats typing now; it was difficult at first but with teamwork and gumption we've really figured out typing pretty good.
posted by Tevin at 12:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [111 favorites]

We got a picture. Donnie gets no flag behind his podium.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Ah, it's really the little things in life, isn't it? I'm dead certain they have an American flag lying around for EXACTLY this sort of event.
posted by neonrev at 12:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Did Obama get a flag on his various trips to meet world leaders?
posted by neonrev at 12:38 PM on August 31, 2016

Spoiler: Trump loves Mexico, loves the Mexican people, thanks the Mexican president for his hospitality and for a constructive conversation
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wouldn't a flag be for heads of state? Or at least people officially representing the government of a country? Trump is a private citizen meeting with a head of state. Therefore, no flag, right?
posted by mcduff at 12:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

So this Mexico paying for the wall thing - is that just initial construction, or is maintenance included? I mean, the reason most countries don't have nuclear submarines isn't that they don't know how or that they cost to much to build. It's that even if someone gave you one for free, they cost too much to own, every damn day.
posted by ctmf at 12:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure what protocol is. Most heads of state wouldn't meet with a candidate because it lowers their own standing. You'd never see a sitting POTUS have a meeting with a foreign candidate.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's that even if someone gave you one for free, they cost too much to own, every damn day.
The old adage about buying a boat (or a German car): if you can't afford three of them, you can't afford one.
posted by rp at 12:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Obama met with multiple heads of state (Merkel and a whole host of Israeli leaders, if I recall) during his candidacy, so I dunno.
posted by neonrev at 12:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

no matter how much you want to be "the cool uncle," never give kids pets or a nuclear submarine for their birthday
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

It's fascinating to me that the two most common things I hear from Trump supporters are one, that they like him because he always says what he thinks, and two, just because he said [X] doesn't mean that's what he actually thinks.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [62 favorites]

Obama met with multiple heads of state (Merkel and a whole host of Israeli leaders, if I recall) during his candidacy, so I dunno.

Obama's kind of sui generis, though.

I mean, not that Trump isn't. But still.
posted by dersins at 12:45 PM on August 31, 2016

They could put something back there, something that denotes there's a person while not being an official representative for the state. Suggestions for banner images behind the podium:

- #MAGA (repeated five times)
- A dozen Trump Steaks
- Pulsating masses of centipedes
- A middle finger
- Quotes of Trump's most heinous sayings*
- Enlarged portion of Mexico's official seal where the snake being captured by the eagle is Trump's smug face
- Vladimir Putin giving the thumbs up

Really a missed opportunity for the Mexican national social media team if you ask me.

*obviously size is an issue for this one
posted by Tevin at 12:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Suggestions for banner images behind the podium:

Life sized prints of his tiny hands
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

They really missed an opportunity to put a tiny, like drink-umbrella size flag on the lectern for him.
To make his hands look bigger
posted by rp at 12:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

So there's a stage with podiums and chairs... Is this going to be televised/streamed?
posted by mochapickle at 12:50 PM on August 31, 2016

CNN is streaming the podiums and waiting, so yes it should be on news stations.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2016

I found this stream.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2016

Obama was also an actual elected official so his meeting with other elected officials from other countries makes sense in at least that regard. It's not uncommon for senators to accompany the SoS in foreign meetings from time to time, no?

Yeah, but at least some of his trips were just him, and he was basically just a minor senator at the time. It's not like he was a leader of anything other than Illinois right then, and I don't see meeting with the junior senator from a single state as being any more legitimate than meeting with a potential future head of state.
posted by neonrev at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's fascinating to me that the two most common things I hear from Trump supporters are one, that they like him because he always says what he thinks, and two, just because he said [X] doesn't mean that's what he actually thinks.

Well, to his base, the important thing isn't what he says, but that whatever he says hurts / angers the right set of people.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

Fuuuuuuck this is such a strange time to be alive.
posted by My Dad at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

posted by y2karl at 12:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is LePage like, the American Rob Ford who will be 2020's equivalent to Trump?
posted by Apocryphon at 12:55 PM on August 31, 2016

I found this stream.

Oh, this is weird... It's Trump telling the snake poem, and the camera cuts to a bizarre puppet show with a snake.
posted by mochapickle at 12:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Suggestions for banner images behind the podium:

A picture of a Taco Bowl. Duh!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Fuuuuuuck this is such a strange time to be alive.

Oh, this is weird... It's Trump telling the snake poem, and the camera cuts to a bizarre puppet show with a snake.

No kidding. I just clicked on the live stream link just above, and although the press conference hasn't started yet, they're playing a previous press conference, yesterday's maybe. And I tuned in to see Trump doing his Snake poem schtick, and the video editor pasted in an animation by Bruce Bickford from Frank Zappa's "Baby Snakes" video (which is brilliant, by the way, don't miss it, it's just the greatest).
posted by vverse23 at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Maybe he could bring one of his famous Taco Bowls as a gift for Peña Nieto.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I found this stream.

Welp that was... something.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on August 31, 2016

This stream... there's putin superimposed in the corner, and for a bit there was a skeleton head talking, and then cutouts of Hillary drinking. Feels like a fever dream.
posted by mochapickle at 1:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

cmfletcher: I found this stream.

What's with the crazy drinking Hillary overlays? I'd totally drink with Hills. Looks like a fun time.

Oh, and now a Hillary as Joker image. And now a photo of her behind bars. Fuck that noise, I'm out.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

SNL Already Imagined Trump Meeting Mexico's President
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:02 PM on August 31, 2016

Suggestions for banner images behind the podium:

Pepe the Frog!
posted by PlusDistance at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Sorry guys. It was just a side by side of the speech and the empty podium when I first tuned in.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

CNN livestream
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

FUCK I just donated another $5 to Hillary's campaign because someone linked me to vagendaofmanocide.com and it redirects to her donations page. HOW COULD I IGNORE SUCH BRILLIANCE.

Sorry if this has been covered already.
posted by sunset in snow country at 1:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

CNN livestream

Thanks CHT.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:08 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

FUCK I just donated another $5 to Hillary's campaign because someone linked me to vagendaofmanocide.com and it redirects to her donations page.
I've mentioned this to so many people. Love it so much.
posted by rp at 1:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

CNN livestream summary: EPN - I work with President Obama, and I'll continue to work with the next US president, who will be selected by the robust US election process/ discussion. I invited both candidates. Donny is here today, and I hope Hillary will be here later.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:12 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Man Trump looks bored as hell standing there. Much serious. Very "presidential". Wow.
posted by dis_integration at 1:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

> Mexico paying for the wall thing

His plan [warning: goes to the candidate's actual website] is to freeze US -> Mexico money transfers (claimed $24 billion a year ) on day 1, hear whining about it on day 2 and get a fat check on day 3. He'd also re-negotiate tariffs to be more favorable to the US, cancel a bunch of visas, and charge more for visa processing. Those (crazy) ideas would be a continuous revenue stream, so could pay for maintenance, but would probably just go to debt service on the enormous bonds used to pay for the initial construction of the wall while it decomposes.
posted by morganw at 1:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well (from the earlier, cray-stream), that was the first time I'd heard Trump's overlong preschool snake poem, and, wow. Fear-mongering and racism against refugees. Refugees! The most vulnerable people in the world! From a millionaire in the most powerful, richest nation on Earth. Disgusting doesn't cover it.

Another similarity to Mr. Brexit, by the way, but Farage was rightly called on this anti-refugee poster. He refused to apologise, because he is a Nazi.

My suggestion for the Trump podium is to resurrect this.
posted by Quagkapi at 1:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trumps body language: Talk faster, I've got a plane to catch.
posted by DanSachs at 1:15 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

On the lack of an American flag, CNN indicated that this is a courtesy given to other heads of state. No word on whether Mexican officials had to explain to Trump that he was not yet a head of state or not.
posted by Silverstone at 1:15 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is it just me, or is this sounding like Nieto is taking this opportunity to tell Trump how great Mexico is, subtly telling Trump to go jump off his wall? So far there have been zero endorsements of Trump, and in fact there's no recognizance that he's even in the room.
posted by vverse23 at 1:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

As a reminder, The Snake is originally a song by Al Wilson. The question still stands: who feeds a snake milk and honey?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wonder whether Nieto will just use the entire time talking, and Trump will never get a word in? That would rule.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [24 favorites]

> Just a note for fellow anglos from someone who is like just ultimate white-bread so, like, it's with love: If you're using just one name for him, it should probably be Peña.

The Google search I just did suggests that he's referred to as Enrique Peña Nieto or Presidente Peña Nieto, so best not to use just one name. After all, we never abbreviate John Quincy Adams or John Foster Dulles.

By the way, I want to call attention to neonrev's fantastic comment if you haven't seen it. One of the best things I've seen in an election thread (or, really, anywhere on MeFi lately).
posted by languagehat at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Again with my questions about Chat. So, YT comments are known universally as the platonic ideal of trolly shitposting from the depths of the teenaged id and some genius over there was like, "I know! Let's enable a LIVE CHAT feature! That'll be awesome and not at all offputting and disgusting for actual adults."
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

The snake isn't a snake, flt.
posted by mochapickle at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe I missed one but EPN hasn't mentioned Trump's name yet. He's just saying "next president of the United States."
posted by theodolite at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Never mind
posted by theodolite at 1:19 PM on August 31, 2016

Trump looks so BORED. This is so great.
posted by mochapickle at 1:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

> This American Life did an exceptionally good episode on the proliferation of SSDI claims.
The reporting has been accused of overstating the case

the program is also a lot more stringent than that "This American Life" piece would have you believe. The fact is, the vast majority of applicants are denied, and there are qualified diagnoses that are very stringently applied.

posted by morganw at 1:20 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Am I hearing right that the Mexican President keeps referring to "the North American election"?
posted by DanSachs at 1:20 PM on August 31, 2016

EPN: My responsibility is to protect Mexicans wherever they may be. Mexicans in the US are honest people, working people, who respect family, community, and the law. Mexicans deserve respect.
posted by theodolite at 1:20 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Seems like EPN is really taking advantage of the American spotlight, and is kinda droning on for a bit.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Secret Life of Gravy: The meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Peña Nieto is scheduled to start by 4 p.m. local time and last for approximately 50 minutes. The Mexican president, who will be joined by his foreign minister, is expected to speak English at the meeting.

For anyone wondering about this, this CNN feed has Nieto speaking Spanish, probably because he's talking to the people of Mexico.

And now, for Donnie.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:21 PM on August 31, 2016

Low energy. Sad.
posted by PenDevil at 1:22 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump speaking right now & is the most subdued I have ever seen him. Did Kellyanne slip him a xanax?
posted by mochapickle at 1:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

> Seems like EPN is really taking advantage of the American spotlight, and is kinda droning on for a bit.

If Trump can't even handle that without looking bored, how is he going to deal with a woman droning on about policy in a one-on-one debate? Hillary may be able to bore him into spontaneous combustion!
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donnie is very low-key. Talks about all the Mexicans he employs in the US and all his respect for them and their hard work, faith and family values. Way to sell yourself to ... the Mexicans?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

The "how many people I employ" thing is weird to me.
posted by OmieWise at 1:24 PM on August 31, 2016

This is a BFD: Breaking: #SCOTUS 4-4 Tie in NC Voting Case Leaves Lower Court Ruling in Place and Shows Us Power of Appeals Courts Post-Scalia

This should kill off their Jim Crow-esque requirements for voter ID and removal of early voting for this election. Hopefully it'll apply to all the other similar cases (WI, TX, etc), and if Clinton gets elected and gets at least one SCOTUS appointment in, we could hopefully see these laws banned.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

Am I hearing right that the Mexican President keeps referring to "the North American election"?

That's how a lot of people in Mexico refer to the USA. "América" is out because it's seen as properly referring to all of North and South America, and "Estados Unidos" is out because it can also refer to the Estados Unidos Mexicanos, Mexico's official name.
posted by nebulawindphone at 1:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

In a few hours, in Arizona: "Can you believe the load of crap I said in Mexico? They'll believe anything, believe me!" [fake]
posted by mochapickle at 1:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am very glad Antonin Scalia was not able to cast his vote in that case. Retired would have been fine with me. But still, I am glad.
posted by Justinian at 1:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

EPN made sure to talk about arms trafficking across the border from the US into Mexico, which is a topic that hasn't been part of the campaign so far because NRA.
posted by holgate at 1:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Donnie is very low-key. Talks about all the Mexicans he employs in the US and all his respect for them and their hard work, faith and family values. Way to sell yourself to ... the Mexicans?

But wait, I thought they were coming here and TAKING JOBS FROM THE AFRICAN AMERICANS AND THE HISPANICS, Donnie. Now you're telling us that you're the one bringing them here to TAKE JOBS FROM THE AFRICAN AMERICANS AND THE HISPANICS?

Jesus fucking christ, this guy.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [26 favorites]

I remember being taught in Spanish class that the Spanish equivalent to "[USA] American" is "norteamericano", eg. "futbol norteamericano" is American NFL-style football.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

So we have fourth grader reading from a paper Trump back again.
posted by Talez at 1:28 PM on August 31, 2016

MetaFilter: Jesus fucking christ, this guy.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

5 shared goals:
1. End illegal immigration, not only between Mexico and US, but South American countries and beyond, into both countries
2. We respect the right for either country to build a wall on their territory. Cooperation towards this shared benefit is paramount
3. Close down drug cartels, only can be done with cooperation and intelligence sharing
4. Improving NAFTA, a 22 year old agreement that must be updated to address the realities of today; keep industry in our hemisphere. Workers in both countries need a pay raise, improve pay standards and working conditions
5. Keep manufacturing wealth in our hemisphere (Mexico, Central America and US)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Interesting to hear Trump do this super low-key reframing of his wall schtick. "Cooperation to achieve this shared objective—and it will be shared..." is a pretty thin polish job on "and they will pay for it...".

Also interesting that he's straight up said "hey, Mexico is getting the better end of this NAFTA deal". In his bullet points he instead just pushes on the idea that revising it will be better for everyone, but that earlier bit?
posted by cortex at 1:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Have they said they've done anything? Like agreed to anything? Talked about anything?

Indicated in any way what the ever loving point was?
posted by schadenfrau at 1:30 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am very glad Antonin Scalia was not able to cast his vote in that case. Retired would have been fine with me. But still, I am glad.

Open up his grave and hook a generator to the spinning racist fuck, I say.
posted by Artw at 1:30 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

That handshake was pretty cold and perfunctory. Hardly long enough for the camera to flash.
posted by mochapickle at 1:30 PM on August 31, 2016

I think Trump just really wanted to do the President thing where you come out and make a statement along with the other guy. Since he knows he's not going to be President, he just wants to use the playset a little longer.
posted by zutalors! at 1:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

Lots of "low-energy" jokes, a few suggesting he stopped off in Mexico to refill his Xanax prescription at a farmacia.
posted by holgate at 1:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donnie: We didn't discuss who would pay for the wall
posted by filthy light thief at 1:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

"We didn't discuss that. Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss"

Great start to those epic negotiations!
posted by dis_integration at 1:31 PM on August 31, 2016

Oh hell yes he's taking questions.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Reporters now asking about the idea of Mexico paying for the wall. Trump dodging it, saying that payment hasn't been discussed yet but leaving it out there that it being built is an inevitability.
posted by cortex at 1:32 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump - "Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss that."
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:32 PM on August 31, 2016

Trump: "Illegal immigration is a problem for Mexico as well as for us."

Is this true? I mean, I've never really thought about it, but how much does Mexico care about this?
posted by OmieWise at 1:32 PM on August 31, 2016

5 shared goals:
1. End illegal immigration

Without having seen it, I think this is going to be spun as a huge win for Trump so long as he holds it together tonight

No idea why Peña Nieto would help Trump
posted by schadenfrau at 1:33 PM on August 31, 2016

You know, at the rally yesterday, I don't remember him trotting out the usual line about the wall & how mexico would pay for it. Diplomacy!
posted by mochapickle at 1:33 PM on August 31, 2016

Peña Nieto is saying Donnie didn't really mean those terrible, terrible things he said about Mexicans.

The end.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016

So far he's managed not to vomit up word salad, so I'm guessing the American press is already preparing their "WOW HE'S SO PRESIDENTIAL" spin machine as we speak.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

"We didn't discuss that. Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss"

Great start to those epic negotiations!

Always never make the first move, to be sure you're the one who did or didn't set expectations for the final possibly binding or non-binding terms.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Since he knows he's not going to be President,

People keep saying this in here, but I don't think it's accurate. He will think he's going to turn it around until midnight on election eve. And then when results show he has lost, he will claim he really won and the election was stolen.

This bit today is a transparent attempt to give him a presidential photo-op to make up for his complete lack of foreign policy experience -- and it will work with some segment of the population.
posted by aught at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

That was weird.
posted by vverse23 at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

What is 2016
posted by schadenfrau at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [22 favorites]

Is this true? I mean, I've never really thought about it, but how much does Mexico care about this?

It's a huge issue. People coming to the US aren't just coming from Mexico, but through Mexico from other countries.
posted by mochapickle at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Speaking of immigrants from Central America, go watch Sin Nombre if you haven't already.
posted by ymgve at 1:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Since he knows he's not going to be President,

People keep saying this in here, but I don't think it's accurate. He will think he's going to turn it around

Well, he's not going to. Turn it around. I full on think he just wanted to recreate a moment that everyone has seen the President doing.
posted by zutalors! at 1:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump: "Illegal immigration is a problem for Mexico as well as for us."

Is this true? I mean, I've never really thought about it, but how much does Mexico care about this?

I think there's a lot of illegal immigration from Central/South American countries into Mexico on the way to the US. I seem to recall reading somewhere that most of the illegal immigrant traffic across the US/Mexico border is not Mexican.
posted by nubs at 1:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

CNN follow-up: this was an attempt for Donny to look less racist, despite saying racist things.

Pro-Hillary guy: Donnie flubbed the wall thing.
Pro-Donny lady: He didn't walk away from anything, but talked about the things they agreed on.

Both things are true.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:37 PM on August 31, 2016

Donald Trump knows that illegal immigrants are working in the U.S. because Donald Trump was the one hiring them.
posted by kyrademon at 1:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I've never really thought about it, but how much does Mexico care about this?

Not sure if this is what he meant, but Mexico has a problem on its southern border.

On preview, looks like that's what he meant.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is this true? I mean, I've never really thought about it, but how much does Mexico care about this?

Mexico is very concerned about escaped American convicts entering and stealing jobs in the lucrative sleepy-beach-town charter-boat industry
posted by theodolite at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2016 [30 favorites]

Illegal immigration to Mexico (Wikipedia)

Illegal immigration in Mexico has been a problem, especially since the 1970s. Although the number of deportations is declining with 61,034 registered cases in 2011, the Mexican government documented over 200,000 unauthorized border crossings in 2004 and 2005. [citation needed]

posted by filthy light thief at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2016

Ok, yes, there is illegal immigration into Mexico from Central and South American countries. I guess I was asking about whether Mexico has a big problem with Mexicans leaving for the US. I've read some stuff about depopulation in rural areas, that kind of thing, but I wasn't really sure.
posted by OmieWise at 1:38 PM on August 31, 2016

Calderon on CNN when asked about Trump today talking respectfully about Mexico after months of disparage on the campaign trail: "He's a hypocrite. He's lying."
posted by mochapickle at 1:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

CNN, in talking with former Mexican president Felipe Calderon, brought up the prior comments from Donnie, and Calderon thinks the first version of Donny is the real version, not this dull fellow who said nice words.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Out of his depth, physically weary, now back on a plane for three hours. It's 1.40pm in Phoenix.
posted by holgate at 1:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Frankly, if his behavior on the stage in Mexico is an example of his presidential behavior, he needs work before he does it again. He looked bored, he looked lifeless and his remarks were nothing to write home about.

Yeah, but he didn't start hurling racial slurs or have a tantrum or anything, so the media will definitely push the "HE'S SO PRESIDENTIAL BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SHIT HIMSELF!" storyline.
posted by dersins at 1:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

for those of us who aren't in front of cable news right now it would be cool to have more "here is what is actually being said" and less "here's what the stupid media is gonna say amirite," just a request, thank you
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [25 favorites]

I know they're not what you'd call "sticklers" for policy, but how does this embrace of Mexico, plus the coming capitulation to the Jeb!/Rubio "amnesty" plan possibly play well with his racist base? If he drives down the KKK turnout even a tiny bit, it offsets whatever small fraction of the #NeverTrumpers he cons back with this low energy pivot.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I heard the talking heads on CNN saying just that, talking about his presidential look. The bar for his public behavior must be so terribly low. It's appalling to imagine him as an elected official.
posted by Silverstone at 1:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Frankly, if his behavior on the stage in Mexico is an example of his presidential behavior, he needs work before he does it again. He looked bored, he looked lifeless and his remarks were nothing to write home about.

I'm just glad he found another way to completely dominate a news cycle without having to come up with some new outrageous thing to say or even do much of anything beyond show up.
posted by Copronymus at 1:49 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

The bar for his public behavior must be so terribly low.

Well, you know, his opponent is a woman.
posted by zutalors! at 1:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [24 favorites]

By "presidential look," the talking heads referred to his calm demeanor, just to be clear.
posted by Silverstone at 1:51 PM on August 31, 2016

Arpaio on CNN: Doesn't matter who pays for the wall. Today is a good day because Trump went "deep into the heart of Mexico" to talk to the president. Is sure Trump will stick by stance of immigrants not violating the law and deporting people who are violent.
posted by mochapickle at 1:51 PM on August 31, 2016

Slate's summary: American Businessman Visits Foreign Country Where His Products Are Manufactured by Low-Wage Workers

"Trump began his business career as a real estate developer, but his efforts in that field have been marred by a number of bankruptcies. He has found more success as a TV personality who sells personally branded lifestyle products that are manufactured inexpensively in countries such as Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Mexico. He also operates several businesses in the United States that rely on cheap immigrant labor.

He is visiting Mexico in connection with a political campaign premised on the idea that foreign manufacturing, free trade agreements, and immigrant labor are causing the destruction of the United States."
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [36 favorites]

Arpaio on CNN: Doesn't matter who pays for the wall.

Fine, he can pay for it.
posted by Artw at 1:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

how does this embrace of Mexico, plus the coming capitulation to the Jeb!/Rubio "amnesty" plan possibly play well with his racist base?

Yep, *nudge, nudge*, *wink, wink*, he's embraced Mexico and amnesty.

I mean, do you really think this will drive the racists to vote Clinton instead?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't see how this trip really hurts him, and it will probably help him.

People will say he looked all presidential and problem-solving.
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, do you really think this will drive the racists to vote Clinton instead?

No, but they might get disgusted and stay home.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 1:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Arpaio on CNN: Doesn't matter who pays for the wall. Today is a good day because Trump went "deep into the heart of Mexico" to talk to the president. Is sure Trump will stick by stance of immigrants not violating the law and deporting people who are violent.

Fuck these people. If you're going to be racist fucks own your rhetoric. Don't be yellow bellied little slimy fucks.
posted by Talez at 1:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile, over on Twitter, DJT is polling terribly vs. a murderous anime bear.
posted by rifflesby at 1:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

The bar for his public behavior must be so terribly low.

Well, you know, his opponent is a woman.

I think I've been pretty disciplined in these threads with not derailing but I just want to get some relevant personal butthurt out into the open here. I am the only woman in my department. We do technical training and recently gave a bunch of evaluation surveys to our clients. The correlation between "how much of a dudely turbonerd does the trainer come off as" to effusiveness of praise on the evaluations was just depressing. The bar for these dudes is so low, any time they go out of their way for a client in even the most minor way, they get heaped with personal using-first-names-like-we're-buds praise. But me? Well, I'm a lady. Caring about people and helping them is just expected. I get no special cookies for doing those things. I don't think anyone else on my team actually noticed this trend and I kept it to myself but it's fucking depressing. (To be fair to everyone, we're all quite competent and good at our jobs. It wasn't that they got praise at all that irked me, but how over the top and effusive the praise was whereas mine was just "yes the trainer was good.")
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [107 favorites]

I mean, do you really think this will drive the racists to vote Clinton instead?

No, but they might get disgusted and stay home.

That's why I said drive down turnout, not vote for Clinton.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:59 PM on August 31, 2016

> Meanwhile, over on Twitter, DJT is polling terribly vs. a murderous anime bear.

Black Mirror's Waldo again?
posted by farlukar at 2:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

>> Just a note for fellow anglos from someone who is like just ultimate white-bread so, like, it's with love: If you're using just one name for him, it should probably be Peña.

> The Google search I just did suggests that he's referred to as Enrique Peña Nieto or Presidente Peña Nieto, so best not to use just one name. After all, we never abbreviate John Quincy Adams or John Foster Dulles.

Well, no, I mean, you were right to google it and that is the correct way to refer to him, but it's weird to compare these different naming traditions and that's a particularly bad example for comparison. I'm pretty sure we would say "President Adams" (and then clarify that it's the later one) because Quincy is either the middle name or part of the first name, not the last name. And Peña Nieto is more like a two-part last name. Or at least that's how it would fit into the English framework.

But it's better to follow the lead of Spanish-language media, generally. Example here. Which is, yes, presidente Peña Nieto.

His twitter feed is kind of cute, if you like that sort of thing
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:08 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's taken me forever to even catch up to the current thread, jeeze. But i had two on-the-ground reports that aren't people saying super shitty things.

The first was from early in the year. On January 30th i went to a "trump supporter rally" at UW. I shot a whole bunch of video from this, which was bizarre(i can gdrive/dropbox it if anyone wants to watch... i never had the heart to bother editing it all together and put it up on youtube). The crowd was like, 90% protesters of basically every stripe you'd expect around here, including a big contingent from BLM. The unity of that crowd was awesome. Some of the people were 15, some of them were probably 70+.

The trump supporter crowd started out as JUST a bunch of alt right teenagers who were at most, 18. Some of them were definitely younger. And there was maybe 5-6 of them at the peak.

When it got weird, was when a bunch of the most generic Luke Wilson looking middle aged white guys imaginable in baseball caps and stuff showed up. Several of them were REALLY aggressive and trying to be physically intimidating and start big arguments. Several of them got in the face of young women of color being stupid, and the crowd basically descended on them. It turned in to young angry anarchist-y white guys vs old vaguely scary conservative white guys... Which is like the two most tiresome forms of aggression imaginable to me. I ended up eating a shit load of cheese puffs and soda with some of the chiller protesters and just bouncing because it was cold as fuck and had basically thinned out to a skeleton crew of those two. But, the scary take away which turned out to be a premonition was that trump supporters are just 4chan all-day-cuckers and scary aggressive older white guys trying to intimidate people.

Now, i grew up in Seattle. My mom grew up in rural washington, outside king county. My mom is brown, my dad is white. My mom fucking hates most of Washington and wont shut up about those damn crackers. The problem is, most of Seattle, and by which i mean most of white seattle, scapegoats the rest of washington as "the racist part" basically. Usually with some bonus comments about hicks or rednecks or whatever. And i mean, this is basically a red state with a big enough blue stripe to turn it blue just by population. Look at basically any presidential primary map.

But to tie that back in to this election, i knew that. My mom hates a lot of rural washington because of the super openly racist shit she's seen there. I have too. But what's new is the super menacingly patriotic or just like, confederate flag stuff i've seen over the past few months since that mini-rally-thing. Angry guys doing laps up and down streets downtown with ENORMOUS, mount-on-building sized flags bolted to the beds revving their engines at people and yelling stuff. Confederate flag trucks rolling coal through town, overhearing drunk assholes yelling go-back-to-where-youre-from type shit in my fucking neighborhood... Which is probably one of the leftiest areas in the entire state.

It's not any one instance of anything, it's just the general mood and tension ratcheting up everywhere. My moms called me a couple times asking her if i could walk her home from the grocery store(or from her house, to meet me) because people on the street were just being fucking aggressive and weird... and it's always white guys.

My friends who were around for shit like this say that outside seattle, it's only gotten weirder. Nothing specific, just that same tension.

Trump winning would obviously be a fucking disaster, but i have a feeling that all these white supremacists, and even the internet terrorism parenthesis types, are not going to just go "oh well, we lost" when he does. No, they're going to have blue balls. I think this is maybe an extinction burst, but i think the burst hasn't even started. Because no one i know has gotten their ass beat on the street for being brown recently.

Yet.
posted by emptythought at 2:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [74 favorites]

NPR had a commentator describing Trump's Mexican meeting as "presidential." Another commentator brought up the #twitmitt fiasco from that time Mitt Romney pretended to be important by visiting London. And I recall that Bernie Sanders endured a ton of snickering when he went to meet the Pope. I honestly don't see how this goes well for Trump no matter what the outcome is. Pretending to be a president is not the same as being presidential. It just looks silly and sad.
posted by xyzzy at 2:14 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

No, they're going to have blue balls.

I watched that video about Trump support the NYT did a few weeks ago, and one guy was so amped about the wall and shouting about the wall that he could seriously barely walk.
posted by zutalors! at 2:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Pretending to be a president is not the same as being presidential. It just looks silly and sad.

To you, yes. But you're definitely never going to vote for him. I believe that Trump is convinced that there really is a "silent majority" that wants to vote for him and is looking for the measliest of excuses, and "He looked pretty president-like in that Mexico trip" will do it for them.

It's the same reasoning that's behind his "Black people should vote for me because I'm going to help them!" shtick. He's not trying to get any black voters with that -- he's trying to get white voters who have heard that he's racist and want an excuse to believe he's not.
posted by Etrigan at 2:20 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Just a small data point:

90 people gradauted from my STEM focused high school in Mexico.

Of the top 10% (9 people), 2 are still in Mexico. One has his own company, and spends quite a bit of money on protection. The other has a decent job.

Of the remaining 7, 4 studied in the USA (MIT, upenn, Stanford, UCLA) and now legally work in the USA or Canada (Google, Bioware, a biotech startup, a hardware design company).

2 studied in Mexico and also work legally in the USA. I am one. My degree is in humanities, but I managed to get thru the visa process based on my experience as a programmer (over 12 years of experience was about equivalent to a 4 year degree for immigration purposes).

The remaining one could not come legally due to a possession charge from when he was 16, but he came anyway, and worked their way up from dishwasher to foreman in a construction company in Portland. After spending a lot of money in attorneys he is close to being legal.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 2:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [34 favorites]

My friends who were around for shit like this

Man, that sounds so familiar. I think that unless you're in that sort of vaguely youth/antifa/hippie milieu you just don't realize how much constant sorta-small activity of this kind is going on all the time. I don't think we've got that many of them here in MPLS right now, but there's plenty of overt neo-Nazi white supremacists around the state who provoke stuff as much as they can, and there's no shortage of the scary young and older white guys. I worry a little bit about what will happen in my neighborhood at the election given that where I live is known as the Muslim and immigrants-generally part of town.
posted by Frowner at 2:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Chuck Todd has already proclaimed this a Trump victory, is asking if Clinton should go too
posted by schadenfrau at 2:25 PM on August 31, 2016

It's obvious to me anyway that the president of Mexico is a complete lightweight who really has no idea what he's doing.
posted by My Dad at 2:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

he's trying to get white voters who have heard that he's racist and want an excuse to believe he's not.

Peña Nieto did Donny a solid by educating him about the guns and cash that flow south across the border. Expect to see that in tonight's speech. Possibly with something about Mexico wants the wall too.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Joy Reid's face is priceless tho
posted by schadenfrau at 2:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

On a lighter note, Trump and Hillary Debate Prep: A Closer Look
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think we should try to measure national productivity since he has been on the scene

In fact, I just listened to a Slate Money podcast about how US productivity has fallen for three straight quarters. This is the longest stretch of productivity decline since 1979, apparently. There were other theories though, like losing oil industry jobs.
posted by carolr at 2:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chuck Todd has already proclaimed this a Trump victory, is asking if Clinton should go too

If I had any evens left I still couldn't
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Chuck Todd has already proclaimed this a Trump victory, is asking if Clinton should go too

I'm starting to develop a real dislike for this guy. Is he, like, Republican? A misogynist? I mean, what is his deal? I don't know how his credentials got him into MtP anyway. He has graduated from nothing except high school, worked on a failed Presidential bid, then somehow became the editor-in-chief of The Hotline. I've never seen any indication that was particularly bright or dialed in.
posted by xyzzy at 2:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chuck Todd? No.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:40 PM on August 31, 2016

I think that we're going to see trump rise up in polls and maybe even take the lead through September. He seems to finally have found campaign staff competent enough to direct his energy. I do not think he will win, but this won't be a landslide victory that the country really need to repudiate the Republican party.

To you, yes. But you're definitely never going to vote for him. I believe that Trump is convinced that there really is a "silent majority" that wants to vote for him and is looking for the measliest of excuses, and "He looked pretty president-like in that Mexico trip" will do it for them.

It's the same reasoning that's behind his "Black people should vote for me because I'm going to help them!" shtick. He's not trying to get any black voters with that -- he's trying to get white voters who have heard that he's racist and want an excuse to believe he's not.

I agree with this, but I think it is actually true. All of this presidential stuff has been an effort to make the holding of the nose easier, and if they can continue to froth up Clinton Foundation level nothing-stories, then all the better. It's shitty, it's a misogynistic double standard, and it's left reality behind so long ago that the two don't even write any more, but I believe it to be the truth.
posted by codacorolla at 2:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Jon Favreau (Obama speechwriter, not the actor):
So, it looks like the rest of this election could be a contest between our collective memory and the media's attention span.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [57 favorites]

Clinton should not go to Mexico at this time. That is an absurd suggestion.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

> Well, no, I mean, you were right to google it and that is the correct way to refer to him, but it's weird to compare these different naming traditions and that's a particularly bad example for comparison. I'm pretty sure we would say "President Adams" (and then clarify that it's the later one) because Quincy is either the middle name or part of the first name, not the last name. And Peña Nieto is more like a two-part last name. Or at least that's how it would fit into the English framework.

Yes, I know all that, I lived in Argentina for years, but thanks for the condescension. I didn't "compare these different naming traditions" in any way other than to point out for those who don't know the Spanish system that we sometimes don't abbreviate English names either.

> But it's better to follow the lead of Spanish-language media, generally. Example here. Which is, yes, presidente Peña Nieto.

Well, gosh, that's exactly what I said.
posted by languagehat at 2:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Looks like I (or rather the Atlantic) was right. Totally meaningless meeting that both can spin as a win. Will Trump resist coming out tonight and piss off the few moderates that will be swayed by this obvious stunt by frothing off script about illegals and deportation and taco bowls and so on? We'll see. As usual the Swivel seems likely to lose in excitement what it gains in gullible Hillary-hating non-racists.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:45 PM on August 31, 2016

I mean, what is his deal?

This. This is his deal. Whenever a Republican says something beyond the pale, there's Chuck Todd ready to go with the "But what about the Democrats? BothsidesamIrite?" That's his only function, and he's a master of it. He also benefitted most from being the most Senior of the BothSidesDoIt-ers after Tim Russert died and left a gaping hole in the faux-credibly tough "journalist", but actually a complete sap for whatever the paid PR message is for today interviewer market.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

I'll be honest, this is the first time I've been worried. If he stays true to form he'll fuck something up royally tonight, but...Kellyanne Conway seems to know how to manage him. And he just has to hold it together.

I'm worried.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

After all, we never abbreviate John Quincy Adams or John Foster Dulles.

Yeah, we do all the time, President Adams or Secretary Dulles. But my comment was less about Pena Nieto himself -- I will just admit that I didn't bother looking up how he prefers to be called, so sincere thanks -- and more about avoiding easily avoidable look-at-the-stupid-gabacho level errors. And, unless you happen to know that's what they really do go by, which happens, going straight for the final name is a real pinche-gabacho move.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:48 PM on August 31, 2016

Deep breaths kids. He has to hold it together even to make it a little bit close. He won't but even if he does, he's got a Ever-shrinking amount of time in an every expanding amount of ground to cover. It's like Zenos Paradox.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Mr. Presidential has a not-so-surprising admirer in Europe.

Refaire de l'Amérique une grande nation!
posted by tonycpsu at 2:50 PM on August 31, 2016

Watch Hillary Clinton's full speech at American Legion convention
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

> And, unless you happen to know that's what they really do go by, which happens, going straight for the final name is a real pinche-gabacho move.

Yeah, absolutely.
posted by languagehat at 2:52 PM on August 31, 2016

Yes, but a close result is not a good result. A close Clinton win legitimizes neo-white supremacy as a political movement. It makes the alt-right THE right.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:52 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Also I hope they impeach this EPN dummy and President Hillary sends him a mean Somecard through her secret server.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes, but a close result is not a good result. A close Clinton win legitimizes neo-white supremacy as a political movement. It makes the alt-right THE right.

This will provide no comfort, but that ship has sailed. The alt-right is the right even as we write. A decisive Clinton victory isn't going to change this because they've already set up the "election was stolen" thing. We're going to be fighting them tooth and nail at the polls for years to come, but fight them we must.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [25 favorites]

Chuck Todd has already proclaimed this a Trump victory, is asking if Clinton should go too.

Ironically, Chuck Todd has a toddler's understanding of how the world works:

The big suit man made a talk on the TV.
The short hair lady stayed home.
Now the big suit man is the strongest!
The short hair lady better make a talk on the TV, too, or else the big suit man gets all the ice cream!

posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [37 favorites]

I'll take a close race and a democratic senate majority over a blowout with low turnout but it isn't up to me it's up to whoever wins the President of Metafilter Elections threads write in ballot contest in November
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:57 PM on August 31, 2016

So, it looks like the rest of this election could be a contest between our collective memory and the media's attention span.

The most insightful thing said about this whole facacta.

The electorate has shown time and again they have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to the complete fuckups of white, straight men. Foley nails a teenager paige and gets a fucking radio show and front row seats at a ~~klan~~ Trump rally.
posted by Talez at 3:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't know what I'm expecting from the "Yeah let's invade" media, but . . . Hitting the broadside of a barn, maybe?

#FuckChuck #NPRisdead #JoyRules
posted by petebest at 3:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think that we're going to see trump rise up in polls and maybe even take the lead through September.

Perhaps the media is going to keep shadowclouding Clinton for the sake of the horse race until the first debate, but I still think there's a ceiling to Trump's support, and stunts like today's can't be repeated ad nauseam.

September is when organising events on the Dem side give way to actual rallies. It's also when the Obamas and Biden and Bill start campaigning.

(Remember that the most valuable commodity to a candidate is time.)
posted by holgate at 3:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I have a lot of confidence that the Clinton team is focusing on stuff like their ground game, and not silly stunts that impress Chuck Todd, so I'm not worried
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [28 favorites]

I really hope Florida comes through for us this election. If Florida stays blue all the waffling among subconsciously racist white folks in Iowa and Wisconsin won't matter. Ohio as well, obviously, but I think Florida is considerably more likely to stay blue.
posted by Justinian at 3:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm worried, but I think that's part of the inevitable process. Trump's likely to regress towards the mean a bit as he tightens up on the gaffes, so the next month or so will be a bit nerve-wracking in the polls. The debates will be the next big opportunity for some serious separation between the candidates. It's still very very likely that Clinton will win, but it's going to be a bumpy ride until it's over.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I am baffled that the response to this, by anyone, is anything other than, "Trump did a pointless thing."

I think I don't understand politics.
posted by kyrademon at 3:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

MSNBC is giving Ann Coulter a soft, giggly interview right now. These people are sick.
posted by zutalors! at 3:38 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Sopan Deb: Reuters: A spokesman for Peña says that Peña told Trump that Mexico would not pay for Trump's border wall

I had an idea it might come down to a he said/he said. Trump said the topic of who would pay for the wall did not come up. I hope there is some evidence.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:38 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

If you're really worried by every little talking head's take or polls, go volunteer for the Clinton campaign.
posted by zutalors! at 3:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Field Report from poor Philly suburb:
because of social anxiety, I can't not talk to people who are sitting there looking at me as I set up for my community college campus class so today I was like
*How about that Donald Trump is going to Mexico*
*crickets*
*So I guess Chris Brown pulled a gun on somebody*
*excited babble including the following exchange:
Student: Some woman bring it on themselves.
Me (notice the editor slipping) What, like if they're really annoying?*
[in a desperate attempt to change the subject, I say]
*So how about that woman with the bowl of bugs on the subway*
*Excited/confused babble*

I also managed to let slip, to paraphrase, that Cameron fucked a pig. They are going to totally remember that and not whatever grammar thing I was teaching.
posted by angrycat at 3:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

If you're really worried by every little talking head's take or polls, go volunteer for the Clinton campaign.
posted by zutalors! at 3:40 PM on August 31 [+] [!]

You'll notice I said this was the first time I'd been worried

OR you could be dismissive, whichever
posted by schadenfrau at 3:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

It was general "you "
posted by zutalors! at 3:45 PM on August 31, 2016

Not all of us have sufficient time to donate (toddler twins suck up all my non-work hours these days) but donating to the campaign is another valuable way to help out, if one can afford it.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:47 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Full Speech: Tim Kaine Rally in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (August 31, 2016)

Highlights:
- The economy is growing, but some don't see the ladder they can climb. We've got plans.
- Moodys says our plan gains jobs, Trump's loses jobs, gains recession.
- Trump promised to release tax returns. Even Nixon did.
- How is Trump going to stand up to China when he owes them money?
- Trump claimed 120 deals in other countries. Potential conflict of interest.
- Campaign has ties to Russia.
- Trump and Putin have cozy bromance.
- Keeps tying all of this to tax returns being withheld.
- Hillary is strong, tough. What do we know of his health. Mocks the letter.
- Trump thinks we're suckers. It's the next big con.
- You gotta assume this is going to be tough.
- Ive run eight races, you are the underdog until you are the winner
- Voters may tune out TV, but believe people they trust. That's where you come in.
- Youve got time to volunteer. Text Together to 47246
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

wow, I can't believe the first debate isn't until Sept 26th. so much can happen by then.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Mexico disappointed at president's meeting with Trump

Trump "came to repeat his ideas without negotiating," Mexico City security analyst Raul Benitez said. "What a ridiculous visit."

News anchor Carlos Loret de Mola tweeted grimly, "Trump can leave in peace. The humiliation has been carried out."

And writer Angeles Mastretta wrote in her Twitter account, "what was expected: a president who isn't capable of demanding apologies ... how sad."[...]

But when the man himself came to Mexico, he was treated with kid gloves and given a warm reception at the presidential residence. The damage didn't accrue to Trump, but it may well hurt Pena Nieto, whose popularity is already at an all-time low near 20 percent, according to recent polls.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:49 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

It is a minor Trump victory in that he managed to wear his big boy pants for a full 24 hours without shitting himself.
posted by humanfont at 3:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Mexico disappointed at president's meeting with Trump

"Cancer Alley Voters Untroubled By Mexico's Disappointment"
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here's a question that's been bugging me:

A few Bernie Bros* of my acquaintance have been talking about Hillary's connection to Jeffrey Epstein and Bill's trips on the Lolita Express, and tend to mention Trump as a fig leaf of plausible deniability. I've read about Epstein and he sounds like a disgusting individual, but something about how this gets trotted out seems off to me. Is there anything I can say to these people to get them to change their tune?

(* I'm using the phrase "Bernie Bros" here as shorthand for the Bernie supporters who are still bitter that their candidate didn't get the nomination. I respect most of Sanders' supporters and thought he brought an important perspective to the race, but I also think that many of his supporters are behaving like sore losers.)
posted by pxe2000 at 3:54 PM on August 31, 2016

Apart from applying Occam's Razor (how massive of a conspiracy do you think there has to be that one of the most hated figures in the Democratic party gets away with sexually abusing underage sex slaves?) the Epstein theory has been thoroughly debunked. The short version of it is that Clinton was on the plane for fundraising that Epstein was doing, and the flight logs have him there at the same time as a number of other big-name fundraising celebrities. At this point they probably sputter and say that the logs were faked, or that it's all a coverup, or I don't know what else. Ask them what possible evidence would ever convince them otherwise, then, realize that it's "nothing", and suggest that maybe believing an unbelievable conspiracy about a person they hate is more important to them then actually engaging with reality.
posted by codacorolla at 4:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

AP: BREAKING: Pena Nieto says he told Trump that Mexico won't pay for border wall, contradicting Trump, who says it was not discussed. [Real]
posted by sporkwort at 4:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [29 favorites]

I think we got an insight into why Peña Nieto has a 23% approval rating.
posted by holgate at 4:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Yeah, which of these two is the liar? I wish Hillary hadn't already made fun of this on her Twitter account. If someone is pooping his pants, you shouldn't try to help him.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hard to say who to believe but just kidding obviously Trump couldn't even wait 30 seconds after the meeting before lying about it lol.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

@epn: Al inicio de la conversación con Donald Trump dejé claro que México no pagará por el muro.

jejeje
posted by theodolite at 4:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

Enrique Pena Nieto: Al inicio de la conversación con Donald Trump dejé claro que México no pagará por el muro.

Balls in your court, Trump

Amusingly HFA had put out a statement that Trump choked. They have now put out a correction

Correction: Trump choked and he lied. "It turns out Trump didn't just choke, got beat in the room and lied about it."

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

How fortunate is Trump that he happens to be running in the same year that both the Republican primary field and the president of Mexico are both unpopular, incompetent, and weak? And his Democratic challenger is unpopular to a certain fervent segment? How many black swan events did it take to get Trump to as far as he is now?
posted by Apocryphon at 4:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

He's so not going to stick to the script tonight.
posted by holgate at 4:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Steve Kornacki is really pushing back against this Trump surrogate (also Steve) who actually just called Trump "a humble man."
posted by Sophie1 at 4:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

And of course the Trump Campaign Statement:

"Today was the first part of the discussion and a relationship builder between Mr. Trump and President Peña Nieto. It was not a negotiation, and that would have been inappropriate. It is unsurprising that they hold two different views on this issue, and we look forward to continuing the conversation."
- Jason Miller, Senior Communications Advisor

posted by mochapickle at 4:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

@ddale8: Trump's campaign has issued a statement that does not deny or explain.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

So saying "it wasn't discussed" = "it wasn't discussed to my satisfaction"
posted by mochapickle at 4:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump has backed out of a scheduled speech at a black church in Detroit (The Hill)
posted by salix at 4:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Maggie Haberman: It's weird, people have these meetings w Trump and both sides often have different memories.

And she links to this CNN story from Sept. 3, 2015 The many versions of a Donald Trump meeting

The billionaire businessman has a private conversation with a prominent figure. Afterward, the two sides offer vastly — sometimes comically -- different versions of that interaction.
This routine was on display this week when Trump attacked the president of the Club for Growth for a meeting that took place earlier this year. And it could happen again Thursday, when Trump meets with Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus as the GOP quietly circulates a loyalty pledge to the party's presidential candidates.

Trump's approach illustrates how the real-estate mogul doesn't follow the normal rules of the political game — a stye that's thrilling many Republican primary voters and is helping rocket Trump to the top of national polls. But it's also starting to grate on some of the leaders he's meeting with.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

TRUMP LIED! THE WALL DIED!
posted by Talez at 4:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

A few Bernie Bros* of my acquaintance have been talking about Hillary's connection to Jeffrey Epstein and Bill's trips on the Lolita Express, and tend to mention Trump as a fig leaf of plausible deniability. I've read about Epstein and he sounds like a disgusting individual, but something about how this gets trotted out seems off to me. Is there anything I can say to these people to get them to change their tune?

Well, you could start by pointing out that Trump has been specifically accused of (and sued for) sexually assaulting one of the underage women under Epstein's influence and control, whereas Bill Clinton has merely been accused of knowing Epstein in some vague fashion. Also that it's pretty gross to attribute Bill's flaws to Hillary's character without some specific showing that she knew about issue x and also did something bad about it.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:30 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

How fortunate is Trump that he happens to be running in the same year that both the Republican primary field and the president of Mexico are both unpopular, incompetent, and weak? And his Democratic challenger is unpopular to a certain fervent segment? How many black swan events did it take to get Trump to as far as he is now?

See also the utter shitshow that was the Republican primary field and Jeb! turning out to be a dud even for a Bush.
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on August 31, 2016

OK, I want David Korn to be the guest against every Trump surrogate. He just screamed, "You're giving him credit for watering down his bigotry. Talk about low expectations! Are you kidding me?"
posted by Sophie1 at 4:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [46 favorites]

@mattdpearce: so that Mexico trip went pretty smoothly for Trump, right up until the part where the Mexican president called him a liar
posted by zombieflanders at 4:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [33 favorites]

Still worried y'all?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Perhaps this visit is like a slow acting hot sauce. first impression: mild, low energy. later: burning and proceeding to throw milk all over your face and maybe get some in your mouth.

One can hope, at least.
posted by localhuman at 4:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yes. I am still worried.

So, did Trump violate the Logan Act? If not, what's the technicality?
posted by cashman at 4:39 PM on August 31, 2016

I will be unless he blows it tonight.

But I really, really like the choke artist attack. Clinton's people are very good, and that does bring some comfort.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Still worried y'all?

Yes, still worried about all the crazy shit Republicans once Hillary is President.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

From 2015:

@realDonaldTrump: The leader and negotiators representing Mexico are far smarter and more cunning than the leader and negotiators representing the U.S.!
posted by Existential Dread at 4:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

Why would you ever meet with this man without multiple witnesses and a recording device?
posted by Artw at 4:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

I will be worried right up until the moment Florida gets called for Clinton.
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

I will be worried right up until the Democrats clinch their 50th Senate seat.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [25 favorites]

Why would you ever meet with this man without multiple witnesses and a recording device?

Why would the President of Mexico meet with this racist blowhard at all? If he wins, meet with him then. But this just dignified Trump by treating him as a statesman.

Especially since Nieto's approval ratings are so low. The smart thing to do would have been to meet with Trump and call him out on all his bullshit in a public press conference. Or at least go harder on him now, on the basis of Trump's lies. Why is everyone treating him with kid gloves?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

I really do not understand the free ride that everyone is compelled to give that motherfucker.
posted by Artw at 4:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [40 favorites]

Why would the President of Mexico meet with this racist blowhard at all?

I said it before; because he didn't actually expect the candidates to accept his invitation. It's a polite fiction. You're not supposed to accept it. Trump accepting it and flying down there was either a faux pas of massive proportions or a total dick move depending.
posted by Justinian at 4:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Why is everyone treating him with kid gloves?

Small hands.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [88 favorites]

Why would the President of Mexico meet with this racist blowhard at all? If he wins, meet with him then. But this just dignified Trump by treating him as a statesman.

So you can slag him later and make easy popularity points by mocking someone everyone hates. A strategy which is even more effective once Trump has come back here and talked about how well the meeting went.
posted by Mitrovarr at 4:50 PM on August 31, 2016

So, did Trump violate the Logan Act? If not, what's the technicality?

The Logan Act is basically dead letter, it's almost certainly unconstitutional and its definitely unenforceable. No one has been indicted under it since 1803, despite frequent accusations of breaking it. No sane prosecutor in the country would touch it to bring an indictment against a Senator, much less Trump. It would have to be The US Attorney, and Obama is not about to sign off on a pointless witchhunt that would add a metric fuckload of gasoline to what is currently a slowly dying dumpster fire.

Basically, the Logan Act is not a thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:51 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

If this lie becomes a huge embarrassment for Trump, which I'm guessing it might, maybe EPN, despite being from all reports a regressive tailpipe of a leader, deserves props for just getting him in the room and letting the self-ownage happen?
I could do Chukc Todds jobs so much better than him dammit I need a podcast.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is what the story is about now. And I don't expect a very tired Trump will respond well to this change of plans.
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I really do not understand the free ride that everyone is compelled to give that motherfucker.

Imagine if John Kerry (much less Obama) had stonewalled releasing tax returns on the grounds that 1) my shit is being audited, so I can't, but I will release them after the election, at some point and 2) they are too complicated for you to understand. You think the press would be cool with that? Hell no, it would be wall-to-wall "Returngate" on cable TV.
posted by thelonius at 5:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

It's nice that we live in an age where world leaders maintain the polite fiction of protocol while the cameras are rolling and then drop heavy shade on twitter later that day.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Maybe Trump canceled the Detroit church interview upon realizing that meeting in private doesn't mean his version of what happened will go unchallenged.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

And... Trump just landed in Phoenix (ABC15 live stream shows the motorcade assembled), as the undercard on the rally is about to begin.
posted by holgate at 5:04 PM on August 31, 2016

I'm a bit troubled at just how hard I'm wishing I could hear a recording of exactly how their conversation went.
posted by Jalliah at 5:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is definitely the Twitter election
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

I don't understand the view that the media is giving Trump a free ride. He's treated as a joke by everyone but his most dedicated supporters (and some of that support is drenched in a dozen layers of irony).
posted by R.F.Simpson at 5:09 PM on August 31, 2016

It is a minor Trump victory in that he managed to wear his big boy pants for a full 24 hours without shitting himself.

I love so much that he shit himself anyway. One of those sneaky shits where the toddler acts like they didn't shit themselves and you can't tell until you get close and you smell it.
posted by dis_integration at 5:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Still worried y'all?

YES.

I've never stopped being worried.

I'm worried about false equivalence and the expectations game, things that happen every day in the media. "Trump is presidential" now. And "Why didn't Clinton go to Mexico."

I'm worried about the short attention span and short memory of the media and the voters.

I'm worried about Trump turning it around and winning. I'm worried about Clinton making a mistake and losing. I'm worried about voter suppression and cheating and Russian hackers.

I'm worried about any number (greater than 0%) of Americans who think Trump is not only OK but should be the leader of the free world. And the ones who say things like "Both candidates are equally horrible."

I'm worried about the violence and violent rhetoric and sheer hatred that Trump enables every single day. I'm worried about how much worse it will become if Trump wins. I'm worried about how much worse it will become if Trump loses.

So... Yeah.

And yes I do have an anxiety disorder but I'm sure that's completely unrelated
posted by mmoncur at 5:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [71 favorites]

I love so much that he shit himself anyway.

trump's razor will not be denied
posted by murphy slaw at 5:14 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think it is more like he sharted.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oooo they are booing the mention of John McCain at the rally-- good thing he didn't show up.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:20 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

I don't understand the view that the media is giving Trump a free ride. He's treated as a joke

That's how you get Rob Ford, with non-joke consequences. They should treat the fucker seriously.
posted by Artw at 5:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

Headlines are now starting to read how either they didn't discuss the wall or that the mexican president disputes Trump about them not talking about the wall.

It's a wall of headlines about the wall.

Haha
posted by Jalliah at 5:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

"I pledge of allegiance..."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Dan Rather on Chris Hayes: I feel like we've been parachuted into the theatre of the absurd. Mondo bizarro.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:21 PM on August 31, 2016

Prediction: Trump will trump tonite and say something awful. Getting called a liar and a choke artist combined with being exhausted will make him go off script and insult EPN and probably Mexico. And just like with the Khans, it'll be the very people he attacks most who bring him down.
posted by chris24 at 5:22 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I won't link it, but the Breitbart headline right now is "Trump’s Triumph in Mexico: Wall Now, Payment Later".
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Google is pretty funny right now there are a bunch of stories talking about how Trump did alright and how he got want he wanted then about an hour ago it's like 'oops' now the story is now about the 'dispute' or the 'clash'.

One tweet can change everything.
posted by Jalliah at 5:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yep. I was just reading CNN: Mexican president disputes Trump over border wall payment discussion

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:24 PM on August 31, 2016

I'm reminded of that old joke - what's the difference between a car salesman and Donald Trump? The car salesman knows when he's lying. (original butt of joke - computer salesman).

I guess one of the things about meeting world leaders is that you can't put them under an NDA. And he realised that you can't put a bishop under one, either - I'll bet that the cancelled meeting was because the Trump camp was pushing for total control of messaging afterwards and the cleric didn't want to play that game. At least without a 'thou shalt not bear false witness' as clause two.
posted by Devonian at 5:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Wait. thaTs the Trump plane? What plane were they watching before?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:26 PM on August 31, 2016

Kyle Griffin: PENCE, asked in gaggle if Mexico will still pay for the wall: "Give me a couple hours & I’ll give you a real solid answer to that question."

So is there some question as to whether Trump has changed his stance? Does Pence have to hear Trump's speech with the rest of us before he knows what the boss is thinking?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

The control room on the ABC15 feed is screwing the pooch here, missing moments, having the wrong mics on... kind of interesting to see from a tech perspective.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Ducey" just sounds like an unpleasant euphemism.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Give me a couple hours & I’ll give you a real solid answer to that question."

…that will be good for at least a couple hours.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

I wish Nieto had corrected Trump right then and there. If he had just said, "Mr. Trump is mistaken, the first thing I told him is that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall," that would have shown Trump to be not presidential at all, and Trump's sputtering response would have been shown millions of times on TV, and Nieto would be able to say that that was the reason he invited Trump into the country in the first place, so he could tell Trump that Mexicans will not pay for Trump's damned wall. Nieto wouldn't have looked very diplomatic, but embarrassing Trump would have instantly boosted his standing in Mexico.
posted by Luminiferous Ether at 5:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

ABC15 left the interns in charge.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:32 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Does Pence have to hear Trump's speech with the rest of us before he knows what the boss is thinking?

That would be somewhat humiliating for him, so yes, of course.
posted by Artw at 5:32 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Pena Nieto is now saying he has witnesses to the wall talk.
posted by chris24 at 5:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

If Nieto said "we're not paying for the wall" and Dernald didn't respond then he's correct that they didn't discuss it.
posted by DanSachs at 5:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wait. thaTs the Trump plane? What plane were they watching before?

The 757 flew in ahead, the R plane is Trump, the small Trump/Pence plane is Pence.

And this is definitely Live Local Action Eyewitness Helicopter News at its finest.
posted by holgate at 5:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

under_petticoat_rule: "Ducey" just sounds like an unpleasant euphemism.

Accurate.
posted by Superplin at 5:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Washington Post : Donald Trump’s Mexico visit ends with Mexico basically accusing him of lying

NYT: Donald Trump and Mexican Leader Clash in Accounts of Meeting
posted by Jalliah at 5:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

EPN spox to @davidluhnow: EPN told Trump no wall $$, Trump didnt react. "Mr. Trump was not lying ... because there was no discussion."

Lol.
posted by chris24 at 5:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

So if Trump acts like Trump he's going to have to call Nieto a liar right back. Mirror and all that. He's going to want to very, very badly. Guess we'll see if his people can talk him out of it.

Diplomacy. It's hard.
posted by Jalliah at 5:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Sara Murry: I was told Trump & his advisers are concerned about making the wall feasible and ensuring it doesn't add to the budget deficit.

So the USA is paying for this hypothetical Wall. OK. Decades from now this will all be a weird blip in history and trivia books will say, "Did you know that in 2016 a Presidential candidate wanted to build a wall between Mexico and the USA? In the end no wall was built and no one ever really thought it would be but there was a lot of discussion as to who would pay for it."

I'm rolling my eyes now for future readers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Is everyone else's livestream audio cutting off and on?
posted by mochapickle at 5:43 PM on August 31, 2016

EPN spox to @davidluhnow: EPN told Trump no wall $$, Trump didnt react. "Mr. Trump was not lying ... because there was no discussion."

Yep. Kid gloves. Call him out as a lying racist, EPN! Come on, what have you got to lose?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:44 PM on August 31, 2016

Yup. ABC15 isn't usually this bad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:45 PM on August 31, 2016

mochapickle - yes. Someone in the control room probably spilled a red bull on a cord somewhere.

Looks like the crowd still really wants an actual wall.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:47 PM on August 31, 2016

Hrm. FOX 10 Is having issues too.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:49 PM on August 31, 2016

RealDonaldTrump: Hillary Clinton didn't go to Louisiana, and now she didn't go to Mexico. She doesn't have the drive or stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Hey Wall Boy, you took a short hop to Mexico City. Let's see how much "stamina" you have at the end of the evening.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:50 PM on August 31, 2016

Joe Arpaio is slagging TelePrompTers. [real]
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:52 PM on August 31, 2016

He tweeted that at 8:40 pm. I think it is a sign of stress that he is tweeting stuff right before going out on stage to speak.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:52 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Joe Arpaio is slagging TelePrompTers. [real]

Too bad Trump isn't there to hear.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on August 31, 2016

Nick Corasaniti: Arpaio: "I’m sure he probably made a few deals in Mexico City. But he’s not going to give away the United States of America."

He made a few deals in Mexico City? Someone does not understand what position Trump currently occupies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

RealDonaldTrump: Hillary Clinton didn't go to Louisiana, and now she didn't go to Mexico. She doesn't have the drive or stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

He only accuses her of what he's feeling in that moment, he's tired as hell right before the biggest speech of the general to date.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Speaking of Arpaio, while he won his primary he is currently polling below his challenger in the general. And he's possibly facing criminal charges. Hopefully both him and Trump will get rejected in November.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

On preview, what Secret Life of Gravy said.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:57 PM on August 31, 2016

Arpaio: It's very simple. Take away their foreign aid and use that to build the wall. [real]
posted by mochapickle at 5:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just to see what all the crazy looks like first hand, I turned on the O'Reilly Factor. Geraldo is fawning all over the Mexico trip. I want to have whatever drugs they've got there at Fox. Deeee. Luded.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:59 PM on August 31, 2016

Arpaio is an old man yelling at clouds.
posted by diogenes at 6:00 PM on August 31, 2016

He tweeted that at 8:40 pm.

Twitter for iPhone, though there was a (more anodyne) Twitter for Android post three minutes later, for those reading the Twitter client tealeaves.
posted by holgate at 6:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Arpaio: It's very simple. Take away their foreign aid and use that to build the wall. [real]

But that's only like $300 million. Where does the rest of the $15 billion come from, Joe? Are you going to sell your tank?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Eventually, Trump is going to accuse Hillary of erectile dysfunction.
posted by drezdn at 6:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [58 favorites]

Arpaio: "Lock 'em all up and throw 'em in jail. That's what you do!" As if that's a good thing.
posted by mochapickle at 6:02 PM on August 31, 2016

Lock 'em all up and throw 'em in jail.

Tautology jail?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [28 favorites]

Arpaio: "I’m sure he probably made a few deals in Mexico City.

Probably promised to put in a Trump putting green on the Presidential Palace grounds.
posted by JackFlash at 6:03 PM on August 31, 2016

Eventually, Trump is going to accuse Hillary of erectile dysfunction.

And ear hairs and nose hairs and old man smell.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

RealDonaldTrump: Hillary Clinton didn't go to Louisiana, and now she didn't go to Mexico. She doesn't have the drive or stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

And right on cue, Maddow leads off her show talking about how Trump said he was going to Israel. Then he backtracked, then backtracked again and didn't go. Then Trump said he was going to Ireland. .....and then he didn't go.
posted by cashman at 6:04 PM on August 31, 2016

aaaaahahahahaahahahahaha the reaction to Mexico in the right wing press delights me

Breitbart: goes with Trump’s Triumph in Mexico: Wall Now, Payment Later, which, let's ignore the part where lies in media are mega–distressing, is such a panicked attempt at spin

Red State: leads with NOT SO FAST, DONALD: Mexican Pres Says Actually We DID Talk About Who Would Pay for Wall; Not Us, because even people as vile as Eric Erickson can only swallow enough shit

Fox News: completely ignores the part where Mexico happened, and goes with a main news story of "not much happening right now", because the major thing that happened today is not something Fox wants to talk about

Fox Nation, the Fox News which is even fairer and balanceder: blurry photo of back of Donald Trump's head
posted by rorgy at 6:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Philip Rucker: “If Hillary wins, Bill’s probably gonna be running the government anyway,” predicts Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Oh fuck that noise.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

“If Hillary wins, Bill’s probably gonna be running the government anyway,” predicts Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
He just gave some misogynists cover to vote for Clinton. Good job, Joe!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:08 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Did I hear this right? Crappy laptop speakers:

Interstitial speaker asks the crowd "What are we going to do?" Crowd seems unsure, tentatively responds "Build the wall?" Speaker says "Make America Great Again!"

They can't get the chant right?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Why is anyone listening to this nutjob sherrif that needs a tank and Steven Seagal to deal with... chickens fighting?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Speaker claiming Trump's Louisiana trip was not a photo opp.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:10 PM on August 31, 2016

We'll hang on, how do we know Clinton herself wasn't in charge for the disasterous period of 1993 to 2001? Clearly she presided over the many tragedies of that time.
posted by Artw at 6:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump Visit to Mexico Was Result of Weeks of Work: Sources

Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner led the effort to secure a meeting, the sources said. With receptive signals coming back from Mexico, Team Trump waited for the formal invitation they had set in motion. Following decorum, Mexican officials extended an invitation to Hillary Clinton as well.

The sources acknowledged that Trump expressed concern that he could face criticism for appearing politically weakened by meeting the Mexican president. Trump began his campaign by accusing Mexico of sending criminals and rapists across the border, and has made building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border a key policy proposal.

According to sources, Trump agreed to make the Mexico trip only if he could deliver his immigration address in his way, the very same day.

They spent weeks setting this up? It wasn't a shambles exactly but it wasn't the triumph they were hoping for. Far better to put the time, money, and effort into a decent GOTV strategy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Speaker claiming Trump's Louisiana trip was not a photo opp.

Hey man, he unloaded that truck for almost 50 seconds.
posted by cashman at 6:12 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Why is anyone listening to this nutjob sherrif that needs a tank and Steven Seagal to deal with... chickens fighting?

It's Arizona, not like they're going to find anyone saner to talk to.
posted by Artw at 6:12 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Shocking how easy it was for Arpaio to fling out some vague innuendo and spin it into a frenzy of fear and anger. And how casually and naturally he did it.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:12 PM on August 31, 2016

Giuliani appears in a green cloud of smoke. [fake-ish]
posted by mochapickle at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rudy's coming up next. I'm not sure I can keep up in any way.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2016

Katherine Miller: News developments about who will pay for the wall feel a little like when everybody treats the Muppet characters like they're real
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [51 favorites]

Rudy: "Donald Trump's courageous trip to Mexico..."
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:14 PM on August 31, 2016

...a decent GOTV strategy.
That's what the Koch Brothers are paying for, not to specifically support Dirty Don, but for Republicans downticket, and as long as they're in the voting booth, it is on the top of the page.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:15 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Philip Rucker: Rudy Giuliani just put on a “MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN ALSO” hat at Trump rally. Yes, seriously.

No, wait. Seriously, seriously?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

Guiliani: "Washington is so rigged that Hillary will never be indicted, even though she should."
posted by mochapickle at 6:16 PM on August 31, 2016

We'll hang on, how do we know Clinton herself wasn't in charge for the disasterous period of 1993 to 2001? Clearly she presided over the many tragedies of that time.

Which recalls one of the Onion's classic headlines on the day of the Bush inauguration in 2001:

Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over'
posted by JackFlash at 6:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

He took it off
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:18 PM on August 31, 2016

Watching Giuliani speak literally makes me nauseous.
posted by diogenes at 6:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Apparently the Syrian terrorist registry was destroyed, so we can't tell them apart. [paraphrased]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on August 31, 2016

His head keeps shrinking further and further down. Soon, he'll just be an empty, flailing suit.
posted by mochapickle at 6:20 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ailes is the id, Trump is the ego, and Rudy is the superego?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:20 PM on August 31, 2016

I'm so confused. So Mexico is our friend and we are going to make them great and ourselves greater? But who will be GREATEST?

Does this have something to do with Mexico being the Eighth Wonder of the World?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Far better to put the time, money, and effort into a decent GOTV strategy.

This is Trump - he doesn't build things; he postures, blusters, and pretends to build things while making sure his name and face get plastered everywhere. Meeting the Mexican President was a branding opportunity; a GOTV strategy isn't.
posted by nubs at 6:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sessions now wearing the Mexico Great hat. [real]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:22 PM on August 31, 2016

Rudy Giuliani just put on a “MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN ALSO” hat at Trump rally.

am I hallucinating
posted by theodolite at 6:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [23 favorites]

Sessions is wearing the Make Mexico Great hat now. [real]
posted by chris24 at 6:23 PM on August 31, 2016

Does Sessions sound like that wolf from the Droopy Dog cartoons to anyone else or is it just me?
posted by sporkwort at 6:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is this real life?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

McCain just got some boos?
posted by mochapickle at 6:25 PM on August 31, 2016

You know how they've spent two weeks 'reaching out' to blacks even though it's not working with blacks and is just a lame, offensive attempt to recover white votes? I think we're about to see the same thing with Mexico/Mexicans.
posted by chris24 at 6:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Wow. the republicans got nuthin'. they just keep carting out Giuliani and Sessions for a limp-dick 1-2 spouting the same old tired talking points. They're both terrible, and suck the life out of the crowd, including Sessions getting boo'd for mentioning McCain. tee hee.
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

FFS, Pence?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on August 31, 2016

My jaw is literally dropped. Metaphorically on the floor.

So I'm guessing these "Make Mexico Great Again Also" hats are a preview of his upcoming speech. Something about working together with Mexico on immigration?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Artw: It's Arizona, not like they're going to find anyone saner to talk to.

Is this really necessary?
posted by Superplin at 6:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Whooooo... just made it in to the live stream. Sessions, uh, isn't exactly a great speaker. And, yeah, boos for McCain.

OH BOY. Pence is up. First time actually seeing/hearing him. Here to introduce, and I quote, "A man I've... come to know."

LET'S DO THIS
posted by rp at 6:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Shouldn't it be "Make Mexico Great Again, Also?"
posted by drezdn at 6:27 PM on August 31, 2016

Is Trump running for president of Mexico?
posted by drezdn at 6:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jeet Heer: This is the Taco Bowl of hats.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

OH BOY. Pence is up. First time actually seeing/hearing him

Hope you have the no-doze and pepto handy.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:29 PM on August 31, 2016

I just don't even know who this is supposed to be targeting, Cubans in Florida? Is there a huge faction of NeverTrump white suburban Republicans holding out hope for immigration reform in Arizona and New Mexico? This is just bizarre. It's too insincere to undo Trump's entire candidacy to date, and just far enough from his racist base that he's risking turning them off for no clear gains.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hillary Clinton: Trump just failed his first foreign test. Diplomacy isn't as easy as it looks. -H
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:30 PM on August 31, 2016 [50 favorites]

Shouldn't it be "Make Mexico Great Again, Also?"

Make Mexico Great Again, Thus
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm so disappointed that it's not a sombrero
posted by theodolite at 6:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [34 favorites]

The GOP is essentially promising military war on muslims, police war on blacks, and economic war on "Mexico" (as a catch-all for hispanic/latinx people and nations). Is that about right?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

What's with today's big emphasis on hemispheres?
posted by rp at 6:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do they, like, have a hat maker in their campaign office or something?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:32 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Joy Reid on Maddow saying that basically Trump did this trip just because he felt flattered by the invitation and wanted to stand at the podium and read stuff. Play with the Presidential Lego Playset, in other words.
posted by zutalors! at 6:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

What's with today's big emphasis on hemispheres?

It was on Trump's Word-a-day calendar.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

The left hemisphere of Trump's brain hasn't communicated with the right hemisphere in forty years...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Detailed policy address, comin' up...
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:34 PM on August 31, 2016

Tepid cheers, crowd has no idea where this is going
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 PM on August 31, 2016

Make the Aztec Triple Alliance Great Again!
posted by drezdn at 6:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the political calculus that resulted in the "Make Mexico Great Again" slogan. That just doesn't seem like a winner for energizing the Republican base.
posted by diogenes at 6:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

i guess we can count our lucky stars that Trump didn't hire Los Naked Mariachi to perform at the rally in the name of "cultural outreach"
posted by murphy slaw at 6:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Crowd is definitely not sure what it signed up for here.
posted by holgate at 6:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Called it. He leads with the problems going both ways across the border.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

When does the detailed policy start?
posted by Talez at 6:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Anticipating a tepid and insincere attempt to look Presidentially diplomatic; unhinged rage on the revanchist right; and intraparty accusations of cuckhood flying in both directions. Any time now, actually.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's the path to citizenship, very subdued cheer.

But now "not everyone will be able to successfully assimilate" and "we" get to choose who stays. Much louder cheers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:39 PM on August 31, 2016

He leads with the problems going both ways across the border.

But doesn't specify that the guns are going south.

And there's the usual right-wing elision from "illegal immigration" to "immigration".
posted by holgate at 6:39 PM on August 31, 2016

Do they, like, have a hat maker in their campaign office or something?

If only. According to the FEC so far Donald Trump's campaign has spent $400,000 on trucker hats.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

This cheering sounds super weird
posted by theodolite at 6:39 PM on August 31, 2016

It's the awkward ALSO that makes it. Like, it fucks up the phrase, but you kind of need it with this crowd?
posted by Artw at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sanctuary cities. So sad. So sad.
posted by rp at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2016

And here's the bloody shirt.
posted by holgate at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2016

Holy shit. The Clinton campaign already has a video out slamming Trump for being a lying choker on Mexico and the wall.
posted by chris24 at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

the whole "illegal immigrants kill" meme is so gross.
posted by zutalors! at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

"we" get to choose who stays.

He failed to say what this would be based on. Swimsuit? Congeniality?
posted by mochapickle at 6:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [22 favorites]

Daniel Dale: Donald Trump on Mexico: "In the end, we're all going to win: both countries." Thirty days ago, he promised to stop Mexico from winning.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Now he's citing the murder of Sarah Root, crowd boos enthusiastically. Blames her death on "the Obama-Clinton open border policy". Trotting out more victims.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 PM on August 31, 2016

Someone told Trump he had to provide more details, but he apparently thought they said to provide more demagoguery.
posted by diogenes at 6:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

The reason I mentioned upthread that people scared by what talking heads say should volunteer wasn't to make anyone feel bad or anything, it's that you can literally see how strong the Clinton campaign is.

The media wants page clicks, views, a horse race, ad sales, viewership. Even Maddow etc. The Clinton campaign wants to WIN. It shows. Volunteer and you won't worry about that asshole Chuck Todd.
posted by zutalors! at 6:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

Usual trump garbage + I went to Mexico and they agreed to everything I wanted. There, saved you from reading the rest of this live blog. Yw
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Gross shit like that is why you don't treat him as a clown.
posted by Artw at 6:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Illegal immigration costs us "113$ billion"...somehow.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

And here's the bloody shirt.

Shirts. More than he could wave with his tiny hands.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:44 PM on August 31, 2016

"illegal immigrants and other non-citizens" -- again, the bullshit conflation thrown up without context that feeds into the bullshit belief that if you're not a citizen in the US, you're an illegal immigrant.
posted by holgate at 6:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

throw in the vets!
posted by zutalors! at 6:45 PM on August 31, 2016

Jon Favreau: "Our right to choose immigrants who are the likeliest to love us"?? My God

Wut?! Wut?! Is this going to be part of the heavy vetting? Show us how much you love us.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe it's the slap-back echo effect, and the unadulterated hate speech and the frenzy of this crowd but I feel nauseated. It could be that the dog and I just split a whole rotisserie chicken, but I'm pretty sure it's the hate speech.
posted by goHermGO at 6:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Government has no idea, it's not 11mil, it's 30mil.

Still no "details" on whether they all can stay or go.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Dara Lind: "Note: this is rhetoric about LEGAL immigration hurting Americans. It is Sessions-school, not Conway-school."
posted by holgate at 6:47 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wait what?

Global warming?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:47 PM on August 31, 2016

...and now he says global warming is not an issue. [real].
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Global warming isn't real, says Trimp [real]
posted by Yowser at 6:47 PM on August 31, 2016

Wait what?

Global warming?

They think Obama said that global warming is a bigger threat than ISIS...

I don't know if he said it or not but it's true.
posted by zutalors! at 6:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

lots of gross anti-Clinton signs in the crowd shots
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:48 PM on August 31, 2016

For Capitalists like Trump, Global Warming is not a problem, it's a big future Profit Center!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:49 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is he making this up as he goes, or is it on the teleprompter? If it's on the teleprompter, why is it so incoherent?
posted by diogenes at 6:49 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Matt Mackowiak: "This is eight parts Stephen Miller, one part Kellyanne Conway. Needed to be the opposite."
posted by holgate at 6:49 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Global warming being a scam is totally detailed immigration policy, right?
posted by Talez at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2016

Maddow said people asked her on social media not to show the speech during her show but she said she didn't have a problem showing it because "it's policy"

what policy
posted by zutalors! at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Wow, so Trump's "detailed policy" is basically Willie Horton 2.0.
posted by Mothlight at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Here he goes, Hilary promises amnesty, he's trying to get worked up but I'm not sure he has it in him, he sounds really tired.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2016

For Capitalists like Trump, Global Warming is not a problem, it's a big future Profit Center!

Invest in Real Estate! They're not making any more of it! In fact, we're making less of it!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:51 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

He says he's going to tell us about his plan, maybe this is the details? Haven't heard any yet
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:51 PM on August 31, 2016

Benjy Sarlin: "So the pivot is from hard right to alt right."
posted by holgate at 6:52 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

"Clinton doesn't know what she's doing besides open our borders and let everybody come in -- and destroy our country, by the way."
posted by Mothlight at 6:52 PM on August 31, 2016

Bernie Sanders and Obama both said climate change is the biggest threat to national security, repeatedly and recently. So yes, that's true. Plus, it's true.
posted by Devonian at 6:52 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Benjy Sarlin: "So the pivot is from hard right to alt right."

And yet, people are cheering him.
posted by Talez at 6:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

He's met with the "top immigration officials. The best. So important."
posted by rp at 6:53 PM on August 31, 2016

I am so not ready.
posted by dis_integration at 6:53 PM on August 31, 2016

Policy #1. We will build a great wall along the southern border
And Mexico will pay for the wall. 100%!
posted by mochapickle at 6:53 PM on August 31, 2016

Ah now somebody in the crowd is holding up a defaced Hillary Clinton Halloween mask

and here comes insane superlative wall nonsense
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wonder how Mexico reacts to that wall bit.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016

"We will build a great wall along the southern border. And Mexico will pay for the wall. 100 percent. " His greatest hits.
"An impenetrable physical tall beautiful powerful southern border wall."
posted by Mothlight at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wow! So much for the partnering with Mexico for mutual benefit theory.
posted by diogenes at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sopan Deb: Instead of talking about whether he still supports mass deportations or not, it appears he is trying to minimize it as an issue.

So that's why there is all this talk about "maybe it is 3 million, maybe 30 nobody knows" and "the core issue is the well being of the American people." Also all the stories of murder. He is trying to make the immigrants appear meaningless and without need of consideration.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016

"They don't know it yet but they are gonna pay."
posted by mochapickle at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Aaaaaaaand here comes the wall. And Mexico will pay for it. "Believe me. Hundred percent." [real]
posted by rp at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sensors? This is insane.
posted by zutalors! at 6:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

So Policy #2 is concentration camps.
posted by zutalors! at 6:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

"They don't know it yet but they are gonna pay."

If only Trump had some opportunity with some sort of representative of the United States of Mexico to let them know...
posted by Talez at 6:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

#2: We are going to end catch and release. Anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained and removed to the country from which they came. And they will be brought great distances!
posted by mochapickle at 6:56 PM on August 31, 2016

For people who claim to respect the military so darned much, you'd think they'd have listened any of the dozens of times the Pentagon has described global warming as a major threat to national security.
posted by neonrev at 6:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [23 favorites]

Namedropped Eisenhower.
posted by rp at 6:56 PM on August 31, 2016

lmao what was that Eisenhower story?
posted by theodolite at 6:56 PM on August 31, 2016

Sensors? This is insane.

Above and below!

Can't go over it, can't go under it, can't go through it, better go around it!
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Another Operation Wetback wink and nod.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016

#3: "This is the one I think is so great! Zero tolerance for criminal aliens."
posted by mochapickle at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016

"They don't know it yet but they are gonna pay."

D I P L O M A C Y
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

So Policy #2 is concentration camps.

It'll be great! Illegal kids can finally get their homework done! We can solve the problem of ADHD! You'll want your own kids to be there!
posted by Talez at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

When he says "criminal aliens" I think: lizard people.
posted by dis_integration at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is amazing. He trolled us all. His detailed policy is the same shit he always says.
posted by diogenes at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

He does not define "criminal." Which could mean anything, even just crossing the border per Arpaio.
posted by mochapickle at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016

Wasn't this supposed to be a pivot? I WAS PROMISED PIVOTS
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can't go over it, can't go under it, can't go through it, better go around it!

Yeah, whats the solution for people using boats? Wall all along the Pacific coast and Gulf coast? Wall all the way around America?

I don't know, the rest of the world might actually appreciate America imprisoning itself behind a giant insane wall.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

is this the pivot
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Trump's plan
-was crafted with federal immigration offices (?)
-and lawmakers (Jeff Sessions)
1) build a Great Wall on the Southern Border (no word on if it's gold plated) [cue wild cheers from the crowd]
AND MEXICO WILL PAY FOR THE WALL. 100%. (They're great leader, but theyre going to pay)
(It's a beautiful wall, the best technology, above and below ground sensors, towers, area surveillance. And Mexico will work with us! After meeting the president!)
2) End catch and release. Remove them and send them back. Not right across, "great distances".
3) (he thinks this one is great) Zero tolerance for criminal aliens. 2 million criminals are here, we will move them out Day 1. Local State and Federal, the police know who they are. THE FIRST HOUR IN OFFICE, they are gone.
You can call it deported if you want. Whatever you want.

...this is Peak Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

So far this great Policy Speech on immigration is
1) Stupid hypothetical Wall
2) Who knows how many illegal immigrants there are and by the way they are murderers.
3) Yet weirdly "We are going to make Mexico Great Again Also."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wasn't this supposed to be a pivot? I WAS PROMISED PIVOTS

Don't worry the media will say it is
posted by zutalors! at 6:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Wasn't this supposed to be a pivot? I WAS PROMISED PIVOTS

You got at least two just today.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [21 favorites]

Don't worry the media will say it is

*deep sigh of relief*
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can we stop saying that white Trump supporters are poor people we should feel bad for? They are racists. This is all they want. Illegal immigration from Mexico is at historic lows and Obama is "Deporter in Chief."

They just want to see no more brown people. That's what this speech is about. it's not about jobs.
posted by zutalors! at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [62 favorites]

Trump does realize due process is a right in the constitution, right?
posted by Talez at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

He is pivoting toward madness. I don't see how the media is going to spin that into gold.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

This is grotesque.

"Criminal aliens" again conflating all non-citizens, never mind that this includes things like personal marijuana possession.
posted by holgate at 7:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

OK, so I'll get thrown into a deportation camp next time I visit the moment a cop gets annoyed at me?

I guess they'll have the time after he's thrown out TWO MILLION CRIMINAL ALIENS the first hour he's in office.
posted by Devonian at 7:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

360 degree pivot!
posted by mochapickle at 7:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

He's been pivoting all night; from one teleprompter to the other teleprompter and back again.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

He's gonna have a busy (hypothetical ) first day
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:02 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

at what point does pivot --> pirouette? That may be the end game here
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:02 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

-issue detainers, they will be placed into immediate removal proceedings (if we even have to do that)
-Obama has allowed 300k criminals back after deportation, because political correctness.
-restore local 280g partnerships for local jails, those worked (look! he cited a regulation! details!)
-Ask congress to pass "Kate's law", mandatory minimum sentences for illegal entry
-swiftly identified and removed, Believe me, they're going to go
-Triple ICE deportation officers
-create a new deportation task force
-MAYBE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DEPORT CLINTON

...it keeps getting crazier.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

MAYBE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DEPORT HER [real]
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [26 favorites]

At least he's finally living up to Tim Kaine's "Believe Me" schtick
posted by rp at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump does realize due process is a right in the constitution, right?

I don't believe he took up that offer to borrow a copy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [36 favorites]

Maybe they can deport Hillary WTF
posted by zutalors! at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

And then Trump declares his planned creation of the Gestapo.
posted by dis_integration at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

He is pivoting toward madness. I don't see how the media is going to spin that into gold.

Somewhere deep in the labyrinth, Chuck Todd cracks his knuckles.
posted by petebest at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [35 favorites]

Tacit approval for more Sheriff Joes to run racist rackets with impunity.
posted by holgate at 7:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

We dont have to put up with these thugs anymore, law enforcement will be able to clean up this mess [real]

And that's enough. There's your pivot. Sorry, Mexico. But he's still your friend!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:04 PM on August 31, 2016

Is it just that I haven't watched enough Trump rallies, or is this even crazier and scary than usual?
posted by diogenes at 7:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is everyone else feeling queasy?
posted by mochapickle at 7:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Is it just that I haven't watched enough Trump rallies, or is this even crazier and scary than usual?

CRAZIER/SCARIER 2016

Yeah, this is pretty bad.
posted by mochapickle at 7:05 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

He seems to be almost in darlek territory: I'm hearing the furious and faster "EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE"

This is woeful.
posted by honey-barbara at 7:05 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

this is some fucked up shit for real
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

"I hear that China already has a border wall, to protect themselves from Mongolians stealing their jobs. Big, beautiful, classy wall--you can see it from space. I'm sure no one ever got past this wall! My next trip will be to China, where I will personally negotiate and secure us the best--the BEST--deal on this slightly pre-owned wall!"

[fake... for now]
posted by rodeoclown at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2016

Bullshit like this is why the US can't have a proper political conversation about immigration.
posted by holgate at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

#4 Block funding for sanctuary cities. Cities that refuse to cooperate with federal authorities will not receive taxpayer dollars (!)
#5 Cancel "unconstitutional" executive orders, incl. amnesties
posted by mochapickle at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is it just that I haven't watched enough Trump rallies, or is this even crazier and scary than usual?

No this is way worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

"give amnity"

what
posted by rp at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I swear someone just yelled "STRING HER UP".
posted by dis_integration at 7:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

There's no downside to making up crazy shit! He's cracked the code!
posted by petebest at 7:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

"String her up!" (Crowd dude)

Well, that's new.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

"Don't forget the 2nd amendment"
posted by theodolite at 7:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

This horrible fucker must be stopped
posted by theodolite at 7:08 PM on August 31, 2016 [21 favorites]

he's just ranting now...crazy, frothing at the mouth ranting...wtf???
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:08 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Cancel "unconstitutional" executive orders, incl. amnesties

While introducing plenty of his own to empower vigilante local cops who wouldn't know federal law if it bit them on the backside.
posted by holgate at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

is he still looking presidential
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [38 favorites]

This is Trump's "detailed policy speech"? All I hear is an incoherent rant from a man pretending he didn't back down to Mexico hours ago.

McMuffin with the burn.
posted by chris24 at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [28 favorites]

Trump speech in Mexico - iPhone
Trump in speech Arizona - Android
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [35 favorites]

He must have napped on the plane.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016

He seems quite admirably concerned with public servants' not having adequate resources to do their jobs.

The nation's teachers and social workers would like a word
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

So, the police know who all the criminals are but can't touch them because... you have to find them guilty, right? So that's going away?

Jeez.
posted by Devonian at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

John Santucci: This speech is not the tone we've seen the last several weeks...it's a speech we would have heard several months ago

I get the feeling that Kellyanne Conway had no input into this-- this is all alt-Right. This speech is not going to take him to the White House-- I think he can give up on that idea right now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Kellyanne Conway is no moderate...I don't know where she is getting credit for not encouraging this kind of shit.
posted by zutalors! at 7:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

Maybe he is on drugs. This sounds like amphetamine ranting.
posted by frecklefaerie at 7:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

This sounds like amphetamine ranting.

Downers to get him to Mexico City, uppers on the flight home.
posted by holgate at 7:12 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

I know when I need something to take the edge off the downers I head down to Mexico and score some uppers too. *jinx*
posted by dis_integration at 7:12 PM on August 31, 2016

Concentration camps in Syria now.

We're also not going to pay for the concentration camps, Gulf States are. Because we spend too much.

BUT we are going to escort all illegal immigrants who are caught to their home country.
posted by zutalors! at 7:12 PM on August 31, 2016

It's not that Kellyanne Conway is a moderate, but that she knows how to say the quiet parts quiet, which is not happening right now.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

Idealogical certification!
posted by diogenes at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

If I don't share Trump's fucking values is he going to throw me out, too? Such horseshit. Fuck your ideological purity, bozo.
posted by Mothlight at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

What an angry little man.
posted by mazola at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Ideological certification!

(USA USA USA)
posted by Devonian at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

He's saying there will be an "ideological certification" for incoming people.
posted by mochapickle at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I mean, grrrrrrr.
posted by Mothlight at 7:13 PM on August 31, 2016

There is no other Donald Trump. This is it. Iwillvote.com

Clinton tweet two minutes ago.
posted by chris24 at 7:14 PM on August 31, 2016 [45 favorites]

Trump is ideologically certified.
posted by mazola at 7:14 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

If I don't share Trump's fucking values is he going to throw me out, too?

I was born in America to legal immigrants who are now citizens but I'm sure Trump will want to get rid of all of us.
posted by zutalors! at 7:15 PM on August 31, 2016

The gay and trans refugees I've worked with are respected? or barred? Clarification, please?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:15 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

Man this shit is just plain un-American
posted by theodolite at 7:15 PM on August 31, 2016 [52 favorites]

Clinton's digital director Jenna Lowenstein: I'm really sorry for anyone watching this monster and afraid for your family. We're better than this.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [72 favorites]

My family's been here since the 1700s and I'm not sure I would pass.
posted by mochapickle at 7:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

Coulter is dreaming of her book sales tonight
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kellyanne Conway is no moderate...I don't know where she is getting credit for not encouraging this kind of shit.

She may be just as extreme but she definitely had a softening effect on Trump because she knows that he needs to appear to be somewhat moderate in order to have a chance at being elected. He cannot win with this dark shit. In the past week he seemed to be moving in a different direction on immigration, even talking about amnesty and I'm pretty sure that was her influence.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:17 PM on August 31, 2016

So: mass deportation without process. Ideological certification. Establishment of camps.

Well, you can't say you weren't warned.
posted by Devonian at 7:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [55 favorites]

Trump just said that there were "probably a couple of [criminal aliens] in this room".

I mean, accusing your base of being criminals is not usally a good tactic...
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Were we expecting him to act Presidential? He doesn't do Presidential, he can only do Dictatorial.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

@DanaHoule: Bannon defeated Conway. She’ll be gone by October 1st.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

Space Reagan sheds single tear of joy.
posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

#8: Biometric entry/exit visa systems. Like Gattaca!
posted by mochapickle at 7:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

This is Bannon and Miller all over. It's Breitbart come to life.
posted by Talez at 7:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

#8: Biometric entry/exit visa systems. Like Gattaca!

Literally the apocalypse. [real?]
posted by dis_integration at 7:19 PM on August 31, 2016

When's the part about the midichlorians?
posted by petebest at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm not even watching this shitshow and I'm aghast.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Reading Metafilter and Twitter on this speech makes me think this is what fascism sounds like.
posted by vac2003 at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

In the past week he seemed to be moving in a different direction on immigration, even talking about amnesty and I'm pretty sure that was her influence

If she's really so in charge she would have seen this speech. We're now on racist policy point #9. If she's so hot on strategery she couldn't have had an effect on this?
posted by zutalors! at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016

#9: Turn off jobs and benefits
posted by mochapickle at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016

@DanaHoule: Bannon defeated Conway. She’ll be gone by October 1st.

Trump's Razor: Conway had the brilliant idea to kick off the pivot with a trip to Mexico, and Trump agreed reluctantly. It went OK for 15mins, then crashed and burned, and on the plane back he said fuck her, I have to let Trump be Trump, and called Bannon. It's Bannon's show now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

@DanaHoule: Bannon defeated Conway. She’ll be gone by October 1st.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Except I was thinking it will probably happen sooner.

On the other hand Ann Coulter is going to be ecstatic. He has promised to deport everybody which is all she ever dreamed of.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm going to go look up pivot, because I thinking something else.
posted by bongo_x at 7:22 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

#10: Reform legal immigration to serve best interests of american people and workers
posted by mochapickle at 7:23 PM on August 31, 2016

All my theories about why Trump went to Mexico today are now out the window. I thought the pivot was happening. The policy would be lukewarm and he'd try and win over the people who are afraid of an openly fascist candidate but kind of want a sekrit fascist. But now I have no idea what he was doing. Trump's razor, I guess.
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

The public-charge stuff: starve US citizen children and deport their parents.

This is pure fucking demagoguery.
posted by holgate at 7:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Trump is actively threatening companies that want to leave the US or Arizona. "There's going to be consequences".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is exactly what fascism sounds like.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [41 favorites]

"Assimilation." I think he means it in the Borg sense.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

CNN: "Trump lays out immigration policy in highly anticipated speech following Mexico visit"

lay out (v): to knock flat or unconscious
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Focus: "assimilation, integration, and upward mobility!"

So much for the melting pot.
posted by mochapickle at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

"To choose immigrants based on merit, skill and efficiency. Doesn't that sound nice?"
posted by Mothlight at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

The difference between this speech and the speech in Mexico is almost unsettling. How did both of those speeches happen? No normal human being could give those two speeches.

It's pretty clear which speech invigorates him more...
posted by diogenes at 7:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free…

NOT ANYMORE!!!
posted by mazola at 7:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

Someone tell Trump to go visit the Statue of Fucking Liberty. Trump you hateful little boy.
posted by Talez at 7:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [26 favorites]

Are the gold cord pompom thingies typically hanging so prominently in front of the US flags in this sort of situation? Is it a moonlaw dogwhistle?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Does this open jobs policy apply to Mar-a-Lago's (white) H-2B staff?
posted by holgate at 7:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Chuck Todd is happy he laid out a plan, so presidential! You know, the cattle cars and concentration camps aside.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

jesus fucking christ.

@Green_Footballs: Trump cites the Center for Immigration Studies, a far right think tank founded by white nationalists
posted by Existential Dread at 7:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [23 favorites]

I have a cousin here from India going to grad school, the "extreme vetting" suggestion makes me want to puke every time I hear it. It sounds like people like my cousin disappearing in detention.
posted by zutalors! at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

prize bull octorok: I have a lot of confidence that the Clinton team is focusing on stuff like their ground game, and not silly stunts that impress Chuck Todd, so I'm not worried

kyrademon: I am baffled that the response to this, by anyone, is anything other than, "Trump did a pointless thing." I think I don't understand politics.

This isn't just something to impress Chuck Todd and other similar folks who are impressed when Donnie steps over the ridiculously low bar he has set for himself. It's to get more free air time where he's discussed for anything short of fucking a pig or burning a cross. Air time, even in a 24/7 news cycle, is limited, and the more coverage, even dull coverage (strike that - especially dull coverage) Donny gets means that Hillary has that much less media presence.

People have a limited amount of time to watch or listen to things, and if the only thing they here or read is about Donny, they could even forget that Hillary is actually running, let alone running a competent campaign with actual plans to fix this shit.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I just went and barfed. And he keeps talking. I feel both better and worse.
posted by mochapickle at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

I can't think of a better Hillary for America advertisement than showing this speech in its entirety.
posted by DanSachs at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

"I write those checks" [to Trump companies]
posted by holgate at 7:28 PM on August 31, 2016

@jonfavs: Classic bully: Trump was too weak and cowardly to deliver say any of this to the Mexican president. Real tough behind his podium, though.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [57 favorites]

"Peace dividend" implies a war on immigrants.
posted by holgate at 7:29 PM on August 31, 2016

If she's really so in charge she would have seen this speech. We're now on racist policy point #9. If she's so hot on strategery she couldn't have had an effect on this?

Well that's the interesting point-- is she in charge anymore? For the approximately 2 weeks of time that Bannon and she were named as new co-chairs-- or whatever the hell they were called-- this was his period of softening. We all assumed that with Bannon at the helm he would go full-on racist, yet there were suddenly inclusions in his speeches of African-Americans and there was talk of amnesty. It got to the point were nobody could say for sure what his stance on immigration was. And now suddenly his speech at the African-American church in Detroit is canceled and this horrifically dark speech shows what his final word on immigration is.

You tell me. Is she is charge or has she been side-lined. I'm going with side-lined.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:30 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

So Trump's "legal immigration" pathway involves a practical effect of never ever getting a visa. Because there's never a surplus visa. The waiting lists for most capped visas is measured in years, decades for some.

This is basically the STATUS FUCKING QUO. Why would anyone do this voluntarily to get status?
posted by Talez at 7:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

I cannot begin to enumerate the number of things he's said in this speech that I know to be lies, because of the experiences of many of my friends with US immigration, naturalisation and citizenship, some of which I was directly involved in including talking to embassies and corporate HR departments.

And yes, this is what fascism sounds like, and there's a reason for that.

God knows how many frightened families there are in the US right now. I've seen what Brexit has done to my friends, and this is far, far worse.
posted by Devonian at 7:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [38 favorites]

Wait, he's going to spend the "peace dividend" on "the inner cities"? Just, what?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 PM on August 31, 2016

I keep thinking about my friend whose grandfather was executed by Mao and his parents fled to the US. It took years for him to become a citizen. I worry about those who will have no options as refugees.
posted by mochapickle at 7:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm going with she is in on the whole thing.

Me too. These people are appalling. All of them. They are garbage, and they support this.
posted by zutalors! at 7:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Immigration security: that is the only conversation we should be having at this time".

Literally nothing else. Nope. Nada. Nothing.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Everyone involved in this campaign should be spat at whenever they appear in public
posted by theodolite at 7:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [27 favorites]

This is gross.
posted by mazola at 7:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is basically the STATUS FUCKING QUO. Why would anyone do this voluntarily to get status?

I'd guess that in Trump's America, this would be their refuge from the death squads. I wish I were joking.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is so gross.>
posted by Sophie1 at 7:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

People, no one in this crowd knows any immigrants. They don't know what the status quo is wrt visas, immigration etc.
posted by zutalors! at 7:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

And I don't really give a fuck what some Border Patrol officers think about immigration law in the same way I don't care whether security at a gig likes the band.
posted by holgate at 7:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

It just keeps getting worse!
posted by diogenes at 7:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

Who's in charge of the campaign? Donald John Trump, the man who made Atlantic City what it is today.

Well, it's now put-up-or-shut-up time for the rest of the GOP. I suspect Gary Johnson and Evan McMillan are getting messages piling up on their phones (especially since the primaries for lower-ticket races are pretty much over). If you've been disappointed in the number of Republicans turning their backs on Dirty Don, this is when the real exodus SHOULD begin.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

The cynical use of these poor bereaved people is so shameless.
posted by dis_integration at 7:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

this "my child was killed by an illegal alien" thing is... terrifying. My God.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:40 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Please let this be the low point...
posted by diogenes at 7:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I don't understand the connection between car crashes involving illegal immigrants and voting Trump.
posted by zutalors! at 7:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fuck whether it's Bannon or Conway. It's Trump. He's a racist fascist full stop.
posted by chris24 at 7:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

“MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN ALSO”?

The Aztecs?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

For those not watching, it's literally a line of people listing the name and circumstances of their family member that was killed by an "illegal."
posted by diogenes at 7:41 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

It's interesting to me that festeringly stupid, kneejerk anger sounds exactly like fascism. Because I always felt that... fascism had a purpose? That people who sided with fascism, on some level, truly believed there was a good reason to buy into that system, beyond ignorance and choked–up emotion?

And I know there are people who write papers on why yay fascism that number hundreds of pages and dozens of blogposts, but Trump isn't one of those people. Trump is an idiot whose brain has just been pinballed through life. This is what he's reached after bouncing around for all those years, and it's indistinguishable from the real deal. (Possibly because the genocidal bastards who've come to define fascism are just as dimwitted as Trump.)

None of that's especially surprising, but a part of me did assume that there'd have to be either a tactical choice to push for this shit, or that there'd be a line that somehow couldn't be crossed—not in a "taking a stance" way, obviously, but maybe just one that wouldn't occur to Trump's dandruffy reptilian brain. Apparently not! That's neat.
posted by rorgy at 7:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

The cynical use of these poor bereaved people is so shameless.

Those bereaved people have agency. They support a white supremacist fascist. And they are using their personal tragedy to justify that fascism. They themselves are shameless.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [46 favorites]

Please let this be the low point...

Not a chance.
posted by bongo_x at 7:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

He's going on an hour after going all day, he's got to be on something
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm a legal immigrant and this speech absolutely scares the shit out of me.
posted by Talez at 7:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [37 favorites]

Pretty sure 1930s Germany was exactly as dumb as this.
posted by Artw at 7:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [42 favorites]

You heard the man, everyone. Get out and vote on November 8. The world is talking about it.
posted by Mothlight at 7:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm a legal immigrant and this speech absolutely scares the shit out of me.

Pretty sure that's by design.

Also, I'm sorry.
posted by zutalors! at 7:44 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

There's definitely a mania to him that seems ... even more pronounced than usual.
posted by penduluum at 7:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

The rally is sounding like a Hitler rally right fucking now.

This is not a joke.
posted by Yowser at 7:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [43 favorites]

"This horrible problem can be fixed quickly. This is a movement to take our country back."

Your actual fascism, ladies and gentlemen. This is exactly what it promises, and exactly how it promises it.
posted by Devonian at 7:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [35 favorites]

Please let this be the low point...

Best new campaign slogan contest winner.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 7:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

He's going on an hour after going all day, he's got to be on something

THIS IS
YOUR BRAIN
ON FASCISM
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Over/under on the percentage of those family members that turn out to be paid stock extras? Trump's razor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

You heard the man, everyone. Get out and vote on November 8.

One good point, I like to think more Dems watch his speeches than Repubs.
posted by bongo_x at 7:47 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe the censure of fact-checking news media even in the face of irresolvable contradiction is the modern book-burning.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

He's going on an hour after going all day, he's got to be on something

Hate's a hell of a drug
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm a legal immigrant and a naturalized citizen, and when Trump spews this kind of shit, that citizenship feels awfully precarious, and that's terrifying.

Like, I don't have anywhere else to go, okay. I was born in Germany, but Germany doesn't care about that in terms of citizenship when you emigrate at age 4. My family's from Afghanistan, and I've never been there, and I sure as shit wouldn't be safe there. America is it for me.

I truly appreciate that Clinton and her campaign understand that this kind of talk from Republicans is terrifying for people like me, but holy fuck, do I want a little more reassurance than that right now.
posted by yasaman at 7:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [77 favorites]

tbh that vagenda of manocide is sounding pretty goood right about now
posted by murphy slaw at 7:51 PM on August 31, 2016 [37 favorites]

I'm a legal immigrant and this speech absolutely scares the shit out of me.

Speaking as a naturalized citizen, Republicans have truly devolved into an absolute cancer that is eating away everything decent and good about this country. They clearly will not stop until their candidate is elected, no matter what.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 7:53 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

Thank you to everyone watching this train wreck so I don't have to. Reading the summary here is enough to make me drink.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

tbh that vagenda of manocide is sounding pretty goood right about now

When did it not sound good?
posted by dis_integration at 7:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

Well, if we are going to go after reducing deaths caused by car accidents we will have to deport all young men.

AND TOYOTA IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

I keep flashing back to an argument I once had with my uncle. He had been ranting about immigrants coming over to steal our jobs and all the other 'problems' with them, and I was trying my 'approach illegal immigration from a patriarchal, conservative-focused point of view' spiel on him, about hardworking fathers and husbands facing danger and loneliness to provide for their family, being 'real men'. It works sometimes, but not then. He kept his heels dug in and just kept with his "Well, they should come over the RIGHT way then" line. His intransigence eventually annoyed me to yelling/reminding him that his grandfather was an 'unofficial' immigrant from Germany who wasn't recognized by the government for a long while and who was an actual criminal who helped run a bootleg bar during prohibition, and that he needs to watch out for glass houses.

He got as puffed up as I've ever seen him and exploded back at me with how bad things were in Germany for our family (you know, being poor in a different place) and how he NEEDED to leave and how we wouldn't have a damned thing in the world if he hadn't done what he did and walked off a boat speaking not a word of English and that I need to have some GOD-DAMNED RESPECT! The anger in his face made it totally clear that the fact that our family comes from a man who did almost exactly what he was angry about, coming from a situation that closely parallels modern illegal immigrants, lives in an entirely different part of his brain than the part that thinks about others. He basically made my own points back to me, but it was okay when we did it. We're white Germans. That makes it all okay.
posted by neonrev at 7:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [131 favorites]

Is this longer than the convention speech?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:55 PM on August 31, 2016

Well, the KKK demo is pretty happy about the speech.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

This fucking guy in Hollister, MA was arrested with a bunch of weapons to kill police, muslims and Obama. WHY THE FUCK ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT ILLEGALS AGAIN?
posted by Talez at 7:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

I actually left the feed quite early on with the intention of going to bed, but the rising drumbeat of WTF on Metafilter got me back in.

And it's nearly 4AM, and I don't think I'll be able to sleep for a bit.

Because that speech from a Presidential candidate in 2016...

Ideological certification. Just those two words.

Think about those.

My god.

Is this longer than the convention speech?

It lasted eighty years, straight backwards in time.
posted by Devonian at 7:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [50 favorites]

If there's a specific policy to draw out of that barely-coherent grotesque show, it's that Trump -- the man who spent years promoting conspiracy nonsense that the president was not a US citizen -- wants to empower every podunk PD and sheriff's department to round up people who look or talk funny on Suspicion Of Immigrant.

If you're not repulsed and shocked, then you're not paying attention.
posted by holgate at 7:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [52 favorites]

LOLGOP - This was Trump's response to Clinton's Alt-Right/white nationalist speech:

You're damn right I ordered the Code Red.
posted by chris24 at 8:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [10 favorites]

There's no solution here to either illegal immigration or drunk driving, but one thing as a campaign issue makes the white people feel virtuous and even victimized, and the other makes them feel guilty for the number of times they've let their friends drive home after a couple too many beers, so one of those is okay, and the other isn't. More than two hundred people a year die of alcohol-related driving fatalities in the state of Nebraska. I don't ask Sarah Root's family to be able to work through their grief that way. I do have higher expectations of literally everybody who didn't themselves lose a family member that way. Grieving parents shouldn't get to set the nation's priorities; those of us who aren't grieving have to have more sense than that.
posted by Sequence at 8:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

theodolite: I'm so disappointed that it's not a sombrero

I was hoping for a nacho sombrero.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

It sounded better in the original German.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Peace Divided, per Wikipedia:

Peace dividend is a political slogan popularized by US President George H.W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the early 1990s, purporting to describe the economic benefit of a decrease in defense spending. It is used primarily in discussions relating to the guns versus butter theory. The term was frequently used at the end of the Cold War, when many Western nations significantly cut military spending (such as Britain's Options for Change defence review).

So I'm not sure he's using the phrase correctly (surprise).
posted by filthy light thief at 8:02 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Good news! Those flags have gold fringe, so this speech doesn't count!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

So what will be the Trump equivalent of the burning of the Reichstag?
posted by DanSachs at 8:04 PM on August 31, 2016

Journalists will literally be embeds in deportation cattle cars, covering mass removals, and they'll still be saying, "he's softening!"

Greg Sargent, the Plum Line, WaPo
posted by chris24 at 8:04 PM on August 31, 2016 [48 favorites]

Skimmed the last couple hundred comments in this thread to catch up, and now I'm seriously terrified. This sounds ... unhinged?
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

5 Points On The Nightmare Paul Ryan Faces Even If The GOP Keeps The House

tl;dr - concentrated batshit, POTUS dreams bite it.
posted by petebest at 8:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Welcome to 2016, RedOrGreen.
posted by mmoncur at 8:06 PM on August 31, 2016

The man's a complete and utter idiot, and I want for anyone who votes for him to end up with a pink capital T on their forehead so I can recognize them when I see them coming.
posted by Mooski at 8:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

#8: Biometric entry/exit visa systems. Like Gattaca!

He really said this? Like US visas haven't included biometrics for eons and as if US-VISIT weren't already that system and already (mostly?) in place?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

"Peace dividend"? You mean when we ran out of money fighting wars that never really ended and we had to cap our defense spending at its highest level of all time?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:07 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Talking head on MSNBC thinks it was a softening and that it was the best day of his career.

The fuck is he smoking?
posted by Talez at 8:10 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm a legal immigrant and this speech absolutely scares the shit out of me.

I'm a legal immigrant and a naturalized citizen, and when Trump spews this kind of shit, that citizenship feels awfully precarious, and that's terrifying.
Like, I don't have anywhere else to go, okay.

I'm a super-white person from a first-world English-speaking nation, living in the US on a legal non-immigrant visa, who could easily move back home to family and friends at any time, and it makes me pretty twitchy even though I'm carrying all those layers of privilege. I can't imagine how terrifying this must be for others.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

That's Hugh Hewitt, Talez. Pretty conservative.
posted by zutalors! at 8:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's Hugh Hewitt. He's been smoking it forever.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:11 PM on August 31, 2016

> 5 Points On The Nightmare Paul Ryan Faces Even If The GOP Keeps The House

He'll be having that nightmare lying in a bed he and his party made themselves.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

It sounded better in the original German.

You beat me to it.
posted by SisterHavana at 8:14 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Anyone want to make educated guesses here? Is this latest Trump stuff likely to boost his standings or lower them? I've become very confused. Time will tell, I guess.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 8:15 PM on August 31, 2016

I'm pretty sure the real takeaway from tonight is, who got preferential seating at a State dinner in 2009?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:16 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm guessing he's counting on everyone forgetting the Mexican debacle after this shit.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

He really said this? Like US visas haven't included biometrics for eons and as if US-VISIT weren't already that system and already (mostly?) in place?

Yeah, this struck me more as a big example of how he literally doesn't even know how immigration works than some crazy new policy thing. Other countries do this too (Japan and Korea are ones I can remember from recent travels). By itself this does not seem like a big deal, but like any time Trump references immigration it shows he has no idea what the current situation is.

Same with the vetting stuff where he implies we just let anyone in, which anyone who has been through the process of getting a non-tourist visa or green card or citizenship knows is very far from the truth.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Like others here, I am an immigrant non-citizen playing on Super Easy (white English-speaking oh-I-love-your-accent) and it still fucking terrifies me that a traffic cop could be empowered under a Trump administration to lock me in Deportation Jail for a broken tail light if I did what the USCIS officer advised and left my green card at home in a fire-resistant box. And maybe even if I carried it with me whenever I go out.

Is this latest Trump stuff likely to boost his standings or lower them?

The neverTrump GOP people seem to think that it will be catnip to the base, but won't win over the people that Trump needs to change the electoral map. That assumes that the combination of repeated fascist rants plus supine media complicity (this was 'pivot' week!) won't itself change the terms of political discourse in the US.
posted by holgate at 8:21 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

I keep thinking: this man is a "birther" and didn't believe the evidence that Obama was a citizen, so his idea of what counts as legal or not is based on who he likes... and he's saying that "illegal immigrants" will be rounded up and shipped out. In short, paperwork won't matter if Trump and his flying monkeys don't like you.

No wonder David Duke is so gleeful: Trump just declared open season on brown people, if he's elected.

Heartsick and furious.
posted by Sublimity at 8:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [56 favorites]

Peña Nieto: Trump's policy stances represent threats to Mexico.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [18 favorites]

Please don't forget MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN ALSO.
posted by bongo_x at 8:28 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

#8: Biometric entry/exit visa systems. Like Gattaca!

He really said this? Like US visas haven't included biometrics for eons and as if US-VISIT weren't already that system and already (mostly?) in place?

He said everything but the Gattaca bit.
posted by mochapickle at 8:29 PM on August 31, 2016

Do you think a Trump would have occurred had Obama lost in 2012 and the Republicans regained control of the presidency? Or do you think that just would have heated things up more quickly?

I'm not wondering this because I'm wondering if it's a problem having Dems in office (heavens, no!). But right now I'm thinking: thank God we have the president right now that we do. This demagoguery plus a man steering the White House in a direction that makes this demagoguery even a smidge more tempting would be stomach–curdling.

As it is, I think that having the Senate and House that we've got has done incalculable national damage, not just in terms of policies and things broken but in terms of encouraging the nation to see the world in absurdly dangerous ways.
posted by rorgy at 8:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

(Is he done speaking yet, btw?)
posted by rorgy at 8:29 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

He finished an hour ago.
posted by mochapickle at 8:30 PM on August 31, 2016

> He's been pivoting all night; from one teleprompter to the other teleprompter and back again.

I call that the Trump Three Step. He's so bad at speechifying from a teleprompter, and I miss the crazy, unscripted Trump of ten days ago. But it's funny to watch him pivot one way then the other to read from his teleprompters. His body language is so rigid and stiff; he doesn't turn his neck or torso. Is that his idea of toughness? His hand gestures are limited to pointing and the QB-spikes-the-ball movement. His physical movements are somewhere between McCain and Dole, but they both had valid and honorable reasons for being a little stiff. Maybe he needs some pillows.

His facial expression looks like he's eating lemons. He does this thing when he pauses for effect that like "here's my bottom teeth"; not quite a frown, but kinda a monster face a 4 year-old might make. It's the "do I have poppy seeds in my bottom teeth" face you make in the mirror, he does it all the time when pausing in a speech.

He grabs the podium and reads a sentence, then he lets go, does a three step shuffle to turn to the other side and grabs the podium again to read a sentence. And repeat. The only change-up is when he departs from the script and looks forward to deliver his ad-libs and repetitions.

I made a video of him making a speech in fast forward, but with the sound muted. The video was sped up to 4x speed and the only sound was Gymnopédie No.2, but I didn't put it online because I couldn't tell if it was too lame or too awesome to share.
posted by peeedro at 8:31 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

He finished an hour ago.

Wherever he is right now, I imagine he's still speaking. If he ever stops speaking, he risks hearing something.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Please don't forget MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN ALSO.
This morning's New Yorker Cartoon of the Day
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:33 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Same with the vetting stuff where he implies we just let anyone in, which anyone who has been through the process of getting a non-tourist visa or green card or citizenship knows is very far from the truth.

If you're not naturalized, you don't get to vote. And plenty of people simply have no exposure to immigrants as people. I still get "are you an illegal immigrant?" from educated people who do not understand what a green card is.

This is why immigration is such an ugly topic: during election season, it is invariably discussed from a position of ignorance.

There was a weird moment of truth in Trump's speech: the core of US immigration law really does date back to the height of the Cold War. That's why foreign journalists need special I visas, which were introduced in 1952, when the assumption was that reporters would arrive by ship and stay for months. There are many classes like the H-1B that fit uneasily with the modern job market. He was talking about rewriting the code (and introducing sunsets to force periodic revision) which sounds a fuck of a lot like "comprehensive reform", but you're not allowed to say that on the right.

And it's people like Trump and his bigot campaign team who stop comprehensive reform from happening.
posted by holgate at 8:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I believe you know the answer to that, peeedro. Cough it up.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [14 favorites]

Is this latest Trump stuff likely to boost his standings or lower them?

At this point, the more divisive he gets, the more it fucks him over in the election. He's not winning over anybody new, and he's sure as shit scaring a lot of people away.

The real scare here, meaning 2016 and not future trends, is what his supporters do when he loses. Even the optimist in me is thinking we're looking at dozens, if not hundreds of violent outbursts; the moderate in me is thinking there's a chance so much happens that we look back on this election as something approximating, if not actually, an outright war. The scared anxious voice in me wonders what leads to a violent overthrow of a government, and I'm much too ignorant to know if the odds of that are microslim or pretty okay.

(ignoring 2020 ignoring 2020 ignoring 2020 ignoring 2020 ignoring 2020)
posted by rorgy at 8:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do you think a Trump would have occurred had Obama lost in 2012 and the Republicans regained control of the presidency?

Not a chance. For most Republicans their team in office is good enough. Romney could have made every move Obama made and it would have been fine.
posted by bongo_x at 8:34 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Peña Nieto: Trump's policy stances represent threats to Mexico.

Maaaaybe would've been a good idea to say something when you have him captive on stage in your own country. Maybe.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

I'll have to wait for a better analysis of what he said about biometrics, but it sounded to me that he wanted to extend them to the social security system to be SURE that no illegals were eating. Because if you're going to be throwing everyone who isn't legal out, you have to have the power to check everyone. Starting with the brown people, of course, because they're the real threat, but - before Sweden joined the EU, a Swedish pal was deported in a dawn raid because she was living with her boyfriend in London. (The immigration officials who carted her off actually apologised - "You're not the sort of people we're really after, of course"). So no, white privilege will only take you so far.

And universal government biometric checks not so long ago was one of the End Times paranoia trips of what was to become the alt-right.

These are among the implications of setting up a police state to purify the nation quickly and cheaply, the "last chance to prevent total chaos and lawlessness" which he also promised - pretty much in exactly those words - should he not win.

He would have to make a bonfire of the Constitution to do these things, but if the country does go hard right and follows him, then I guess that's what you'll get.
posted by Devonian at 8:36 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

I hate this Boris guy they keep bringing on MSNBC. He is such an idiot.
posted by zutalors! at 8:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, there's the scenario where he gets to have his racist cake and eat it: he gets more and more extreme in his speeches, cementing the appeal to his base, while the media desperately scrambles to normalize it, securing votes from "moderates".
posted by Artw at 8:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

(Is he done speaking yet, btw?)
He is.
I committed myself (as it were) to actually watching the whole thing. I needed to see it, hear it. Thank you, technology that has made it possible to see this happen. I imagine people in my parents' generation, reading the synopses of shit like this in printed pieces of paper, and how that generated collective reaction. Or maybe, if they were lucky, seeing a bite of it on the evening news. And only getting the briefest, filtered glimpse of what happened.

Thank you again, technology. I got to see the whole, horrific thing, as it happened. It's honestly getting me into that infinite spiral of event>filter>regurgitation>anticipated audience reaction>dissection>rebuttal that, despite having lived through the Clinton I and Bush2 eras, leaves me so fucking exhausted just thinking about it that I'm gonna hit the shower and go to bed.
posted by rp at 8:42 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

FYI, if anyone wants a recent specific example of a "wave of muslim refugees" coming to the US and doing well, look no further to the Bosnians in St. Louis.

More information here, here and here.

Recent news from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch regarding community involvement of St. Louis Bosnians: 1 2 3 4 5 and so, so much more.
posted by Groundhog Week at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

(Oh yeah, the I visa. Won't derail, but it is very odd - and extremely liberal. Another time...)
posted by Devonian at 8:44 PM on August 31, 2016

On CNN I just saw a commercial for "All Business: The Donald Trump Story - Labor Day". The irony hurts.
posted by bongo_x at 8:44 PM on August 31, 2016

"Donald J. Trump made an audacious attempt on Wednesday to remake his image on the divisive issue of immigration, shelving his plan to deport 11 million undocumented people and suggesting that the United States and Mexico would solve the immigration crisis together.

In a spirited bid for undecided American voters to see him anew, Mr. Trump swept into Mexico City to make overtures to a nation he has repeatedly denigrated, then flew to Phoenix to outline his latest priorities on immigration — a stark turnaround from the “deportation force” and other severe tactics that helped win him the Republican nomination."

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the Times?
posted by chris24 at 8:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [26 favorites]

Thanks to all for giving me the opportunity to experience the horror at a slight remove. There's no way I could have watched this myself. I'm a brown American with a non-Anglo name who's already afraid to go places like Arizona (since I don't usually travel with proof of citizenship in my own damn country) and Trump is not helping me be less afraid. You all are, though. Thank you.
posted by rtha at 8:52 PM on August 31, 2016 [24 favorites]

Here's some fact checking of the speech
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

That NYT story is bizarre. Like they had a placeholder written pre-speech and forgot to fix it.
posted by theodolite at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2016 [47 favorites]

Like they had a placeholder written pre-speech and forgot to fix it.

I almost 100% sure that's exactly what happened. They have the narrative, and no amount of insane literal Nazi rhetoric is going to change it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [20 favorites]

Like, who needs the Trump News Network when you've got most of the mainstream media pivotwashing everything you say.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:57 PM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

Plus, NYT wrote that story at 5pm, his speech went till 1045pm EST, and deadline is 1155pm EST.

Real journalism is hard, why fucking bother?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [33 favorites]

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the Times?

If there was some evil genius plan in the Trump campaign to ensure they missed the deadline for the early editions and get boilerplate instead, the NYT fell for it big time.

Direct your attention to the Public Editor.
posted by holgate at 9:00 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Plus, NYT wrote that story at 5pm, his speech went till 1045pm EST, and deadline is 1155pm EST.

This will make for one hell of a correction tomorrow.
posted by mazola at 9:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

These are among the implications of setting up a police state to purify the nation quickly and cheaply, the "last chance to prevent total chaos and lawlessness" which he also promised - pretty much in exactly those words - should he not win.

If we assume that some people actually believe this, what happens when (I need to believe it's when) Trump loses? Those Trumpites that believed the spiel, that believe immigrants will tunnel up into their back yard to eat their children, and Hilliary will personally confiscate their guns, and the election was rigged by the Russian Lizard People and what have you... they surely just won't go quietly back to their lives, right?

People who genuinely believed this stuff would... go out and start murdering the people they have been told are their enemies, right? That's what Trump is setting up here? Does no one actually believe what Trump is selling? Or am I missing something?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:05 PM on August 31, 2016

Is anyone watching Maddow? She tweeted she was doing a new live show at midnight EST and that it would be a doozy. And I'm at 39,000 on my way to London and can't watch.
posted by chris24 at 9:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

They just changed “deportation force” and other severe tactics to mass deportations and other aggressive tactics. Neither of which describes a speech that called for the deportation of two million people in the first hour of the administration.
posted by theodolite at 9:06 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

not so much a softening as a Hitler-ing

I am truly in dismay for my country tonight...I can't stop hearing that crowd of people cheering for the Wall as if the rapture had arrived.
posted by sallybrown at 9:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is anyone watching Maddow?

She's replaying his speech in long supercuts right now. I imagine she'll take 25mins repeating herself to work up to calling him a fascist, that's her thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:14 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Maddow is talking about Know-Nothingism in American politics
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:17 PM on August 31, 2016

Plus, NYT wrote that story at 5pm, his speech went till 1045pm EST, and deadline is 1155pm EST.

I've come to expect everything about Trump's campaign to be amateur hour, but I can't believe that a newspaper that's been around for about 165 years wrote copy for an article about a major campaign speech six or seven hours before it was actually done being delivered. Couldn't they hold it until after the speech actually finished?
posted by xyzzy at 9:17 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

The WaPo managed to write an accurate story on the same deadline.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:18 PM on August 31, 2016 [23 favorites]

They changed the story again:

Donald J. Trump made an audacious attempt on Wednesday to remake his image on the divisive issue of immigration, shelving his plan to deport 11 million undocumented people and arguing that a Trump administration and Mexico would secure the border together.

In a spirited bid for undecided American voters to see him anew, Mr. Trump swept into Mexico City to make overtures to a nation he has repeatedly denigrated, then flew to Phoenix to outline his latest priorities on immigration.

Yet the juxtaposition of Mr. Trump’s dual performances was so jarring that his true vision and intentions on immigration were hard to discern. He displayed an almost unrecognizable demeanor during his afternoon in Mexico, appearing measured and diplomatic, while hours later he took the stage at his campaign rally and denounced illegal immigrants on the whole as a criminally minded and dangerous group that sows terror in communities and commits murders, rapes and other heinous violence.

Not as bad as before (nothing got 'shelved,' wtf), but I wonder what's in the print edition.
posted by theodolite at 9:19 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

And the Times just posted an editorial by the Times Editorial Board slamming the speech. Good job guys! Cuz that shitty Page 1 article won't influence people at all.
posted by chris24 at 9:20 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

I suspect one or two night-shifters at the NYT are not best pleased with Patrick Healy (an erstwhile theatre critic who has past form in slapdash campaign reporting) for dumping that piece in the CMS and tootling off home for an early night.
posted by holgate at 9:23 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Nate Silver: tfw you wrote your lede at 5pm and everything that happened after contradicts it but you gotta file on deadline.
posted by colt45 at 9:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [48 favorites]

I can't believe that a newspaper that's been around for about 165 years wrote copy for an article about a major campaign speech six or seven hours before it was actually done being delivered. Couldn't they hold it until after the speech actually finished?

This happens all the fucking time, that's exactly what they did. It's lazy as all hell, but people get tired, and they already have the narrative to push anyway, he's softening, didn't you see the memo?

If you think journalism works any other way in this country, I have no idea what to tell you.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Thanks for the Maddow info everybody.
posted by chris24 at 9:39 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

How race and identity became the central dividing line in American politics - "The racial divisions of the 2016 election are the culmination of a half-century-long political realignment."

Immigration has also contributed. It's important to understand that between 1990 and 2014, the share of foreign-born citizens in the United States went from 7.9 percent to 13.9 percent — a near doubling. The last time the share of foreign-born citizens got this high (about 100 years ago), it provoked enough nativist backlash in the 1920s to largely close the borders for four decades, until 1965...

One likely reason Republicans have turned much more anti-immigrant is probably because red states have generally seen a much greater percentage increase in immigration than blue states...

The great irony for Republicans is that what began as a clearly winning strategy in the 1960s now looks like a clear loser at its culmination in the 2010s. The racialized politics of 2016 have probably handed Democrats a winning issue in a year in which the election fundamentals probably slightly favored a Republican.

Had Trump run a more conventional campaign focusing on the economy and making the standard out-party case for change, he might now be winning. Instead, he tried to make it a campaign about the character and identity of the nation. He is now losing that contest...

It is now Democrats who appear benefit from culture and identity being the central issue in American politics, at least in a national election like the one for president.

And as the Democrats are increasingly split internally by class, this may now be the one issue that holds the party together. In the future, then, it will likely be Democratic Party leaders who want to keep culture and identity as the central dimension of conflict in American politics... it seems we are likely to have a politics dominated by race and identity for the near-term future.

Why race and identity will remain the dividing line in American politics for a while to come - "It's also important to point out that the last time we had a political system truly organized around race and identity, the country split apart and fought a civil war over the issue. That seems much less likely today for many reasons, but there are certainly some unsettling similarities between the 1850s and 2010s that I hope to examine in a future piece, with a particular eye toward what we can learn from that history in order to avoid repeating it."
posted by kliuless at 9:45 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Surely the NYT times knows that Trump basically wings his speeches; the whole teleprompter issue has been a recurring theme. Who persuaded them that they could put any reliance whatsoever on a prepared speech?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

Several of Trump's new Hispanic Advisory Board are pulling support after the speech.
posted by chris24 at 9:46 PM on August 31, 2016 [48 favorites]

Whole bunch o'diffs for that piece now, particularly this one, though we'll have to wait to see what ended up in print.
posted by holgate at 9:50 PM on August 31, 2016 [12 favorites]

Wow. In addition to the general wtf-ery of the content, that Times story is just seriously shitty writing on the stylistic level. Are all the editors at the Times taking early time off for Labor Day?
posted by kythuen at 9:51 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

And there's no acknowledgment on the story that it has been changed.
posted by chris24 at 9:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [7 favorites]

Holy fuck, NYT. That is just embarrassing.
posted by rorgy at 9:56 PM on August 31, 2016 [16 favorites]

We now know what appeared in print -- the original "stark turnaround" version -- and we also know that Kellyanne Conway pointed people to it very quickly, before the big rewrite came through.

Utter shit-tip.
posted by holgate at 9:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [13 favorites]

Add me to the list of "legal immigrant..."—the actual term that applies to me at this stage is "legal permanent resident," think about that for a minute—"...and utterly terrified."
posted by seyirci at 9:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [6 favorites]

Whole bunch o'diffs for that piece now, particularly this one,

That's a, um, stark turnaround.
posted by dersins at 10:01 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

Now that my upthread panic has subsided just a little bit, I think that was the speech people in this threat were gleefully anticipating once we heard that Trump was going to Mexico. He just fucked himself over royally with a lot of people, and opened himself up to the most literal Nazi comparisons imaginable.

This'll delight his terrifying asshole fanbase, but I'm still pretty willing to bet that the majority of Americans know enough about concentration camps to know that you're not supposed to advocate creating them if you're a presidential candidate. And this, more than anything to date, will tempt the media into saying something—gasp—critical of Donald Trump! Miracles have happened before.
posted by rorgy at 10:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

From Lee Drutman in Vox: One likely reason Republicans have turned much more anti-immigrant is probably because red states have generally seen a much greater percentage increase in immigration than blue states...

That's a weak-ass argument right there. "A greater percentage increase in immigration"? Like, going from one immigrant to two would be a 100% increase. In contrast, it would be very hard to have a large percentage increase in California, because that state already has almost a quarter of all immigrants in the USA. [source, well worth checking out]

Also, I don't see anyone complaining about immigrants from Canada, or Germany; they're complaining about Mexicans and Syrians and so forth. Maybe the reason Republicans have become more anti-immigrant is that they're susceptible to the racist rants of the Republican Presidential candidate?
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:03 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

"Mexico will pay for the wall - 100%!"

Trump is still up and tweeting (though it is an iPhone tweet.)
posted by chris24 at 10:09 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

what happens when (I need to believe it's when) Trump loses?
What would happen if the worst happens and Trump wins? He CAN'T do his "2 million deportations on day one" without legal challenges which will tie up everything he tries to do, and once they hit the courts, stop most of it in its tracks. Then Congress looks at the price tag (and he'll have to put money up front for The Great Wall of Trump before he can start charging Mexico or anybody for it) and fiscally prudent and non-racist Republicans are very likely to grudgingly team up with Democrats to kill it or at least stall it. And from his Bully Pulpit, the Big Bully will get angrier and angrier and so will his most ~~stupid~~loyal followers in the alt-right and NewKKK, and the violence possible when THAT boils over may be worse than the potential violence when he loses... And if the White Rageaholics among us explode when the sympathetic Donald is in the Oval Office, it'll just keep exploding... at least President Hillary would be willing to let out minor drug offenders to make room in the prisons for the Trumpist Terrorists, and there are likely plenty enough Congressional Republicans who won't stand in her way (at least until the mid-term elections).
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:11 PM on August 31, 2016 [3 favorites]

And more. "There will be no amnesty!"
posted by chris24 at 10:12 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]

This'll delight his terrifying asshole fanbase, but I'm still pretty willing to bet that the majority of Americans know enough about concentration camps to know that you're not supposed to advocate creating them if you're a presidential candidate.

Well, maybe Kellyanne Conway pwning the NYT might give the editors something to think about.

But this is about defining deviancy down. The wall is bullshit -- like that tweet said, it's like treating the Muppets as real -- and mass deportation is bullshit, but waving the bloody shirt and demonising millions of people indiscriminately takes a toll.

All it takes is for enough people to be exposed to enough filth over the next two months with the assistance of a media filter that treats filth as an equally-valid political perspective before filth becomes an acceptable choice on polling day. This is the Bannon/Miller strategy.
posted by holgate at 10:13 PM on August 31, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'd say it's a DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN moment except their version would have been Dewey, Truman Face Off In Historic Contest
posted by theodolite at 10:24 PM on August 31, 2016 [19 favorites]

I just wrote this email to the Times, which might be a bit too specific for other people to use as a template.

To whom it may concern—

The article you published tonight, about Donald Trump’s articulated immigration policy, was shamefully inaccurate, poorly written, and suggests your writer finished their article before the speech was finished. That you published it, then edited it without noting the egregious corrections necessary, is an embarrassment—both for the New York Times as an institution, and for the approach to journalism it emblemizes.

As our country threatens to plunge into fascism, it seems increasingly apparent that the stagnation of our media, and its inability to report correctly on the state of our union, is likelier than anything to tip our country towards that irreparable fate.

I am disgusted beyond my capacity to articulate.

Yours,
rorgy
the Internet

posted by rorgy at 10:26 PM on August 31, 2016 [93 favorites]

So it looks like Conway was seeding the press about "softening" while it was also known (at least to WaPo's Robert Costa, who is well-connected to GOP circles and not a repurposed fucking theatre reviewer) that Bannon/Miller provided most of the input. The entire day was a bait and switch.
posted by holgate at 10:35 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Well they sure fooled us and proved something-or-other, I'm sure.
posted by Artw at 10:37 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

Now the title is "Trump Resorts to Political Gymnastics on Immigration."
posted by eyesontheroad at 10:37 PM on August 31, 2016

Political Gymnastics?

I give it a 1.2...
...yeah, he stuck the landing - on some poor immigrant's face.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:43 PM on August 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

James Cook (BBC): Donald Trump says two million "criminal aliens" will be gone in the first hour of his presidency.

Does...does he think he's magic?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:54 PM on August 31, 2016 [15 favorites]

Not everyone thought the speech was bad:

Excellent speech by Donald Trump tonight. Deport criminal aliens, end catch and release, enforce immigration laws & America First.

—David Duke
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:58 PM on August 31, 2016 [9 favorites]

I think this is about the point where the main concern is that the dumpster fire might burn down the nearby building.
posted by jaduncan at 11:05 PM on August 31, 2016 [11 favorites]

Forgive the rant. My mother, who has in the last 8 years truly gone off the deep end into far right conspiracy theory pedaling, had no qualms today stating that, yes, racism has gotten worse, but it's only in the last 8 years, and it's all the Democrats' and Obama's fault (because as we all know, pointing out racism is far worse than the racism itself). She then followed this up with claims that George Soros is behind all the violent demonstrations (specifically the Dallas police assassinations), Hillary's true mentor is Saul Alinsky (who worshipped the devil, so therefore!), and that all it takes is a look back in history to see that Democrats are the real racists (when challenged, she stated that she is not aware of any racist Republican policies).

I just... I mean... what can even be said to that level of delusion/privilege/ignorance?

My family has a history intertwined with Nazi Germany. My mom's parents were members of the Polish underground smuggling Jews out of Poland. They were captured and imprisoned. My grandfather was tortured and escaped from a train bound for Auschwitz. He died when my mom was a teenager from emphysema, brought on in part from a lifetime of smoking but also no doubt thanks to having acid poured down his throat while under Nazi "care." Over the course of Obama's presidency, my mom has used this painful, traumatic history as a cudgel, browbeating us with the warning that her parents fought against the kind of dictatorial overreach that Obama (Obama!) represents. I have not heard one peep of worry about fascism from her regarding Trump. The silence is deafening.

My mother will vote for Trump. My mother, whose parents put their lives on the line to save others from fascism, is going to vote for a man who wants to bring fascism back in style in modern day America. And she just plainly does not see it. It's incredibly frustrating, and incredibly sad.
posted by adamp88 at 11:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [102 favorites]

The Supreme Court Won't Intervene in North Carolina's Voting Law

The justices voted not to stay a lower court’s ruling that extended early voting and restored same-day registration in the swing state.

posted by Joe in Australia at 11:27 PM on August 31, 2016 [5 favorites]

because as we all know, pointing out racism is far worse than the racism itself

I swear I'm not piling on your mother, but to anyone who thinks that just not discussing race is a solution to racism only has to look at France, which has some of the strictest law about compiling information on race, religion, and ethnicity in Western Europe. The government is literally prohibited from gathering statistics on this stuff, and this has done absolutely nothing to serve communities who are victims of prejudice in France. It's much easier to pretend to belong to a color-blind society when it's impossible to use science and statistics to prove otherwise.
posted by xyzzy at 11:49 PM on August 31, 2016 [17 favorites]

I'm trying to remember Trump's Razor, but I'm having a hard time sometimes separating incompetence from malice this week. I keep thinking "what if the end goal isn't winning but provoking an armed uprising?" But then I think how dreadful that would end for them and decide that even if that is the malicious goal, it's still incompetent.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:59 PM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]

One of Trump's economic advisors (not a Steve) was on BBC Radio 4 this morning and described the wall as: "symbolic", "real", and "hypothetical" in about 30 second span. The best words indeed.
posted by like_neon at 12:16 AM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

Oof, adamp88, for what it's worth you have all of my sympathy. The situation you describe with your mother has got to be hard to deal with, painful, and demoralizing.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump Staffer: "Wait, the Xanax are the little white pills? What are the orange and blue capsules? Uh oh."

[fake - well, I mean I have no evidence that someone confused Adderall with Xanax...other than the speech itself]
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:23 AM on September 1, 2016

Yesterday's New York Post front page read "HUMA CUTS OFF WEINER".

I just wanted to share that with you all.
posted by Itaxpica at 12:45 AM on September 1, 2016 [26 favorites]

One of Trump's economic advisors (not a Steve) was on BBC Radio 4 this morning and described the wall as: "symbolic", "real", and "hypothetical" in about 30 second span.

It can be hard for laypersons to comprehend, and the ill-educated may mock it, but the Wall is really, truly, and substantially present; and not symbolic. It has the substance of a barrier; it is only accidentally invisible.

This doctrine is called Trumpsubstantiation.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:47 AM on September 1, 2016 [60 favorites]

I'm having my own issues dealing with this election cycle. Years ago I had a job. It was a nice job before management of the group I worked in was handed over to a narcissistic liar. Projects failed, morale cratered, people were pitted against each other in a divide-and-conquer strategy, and by the time the smoke had cleared the most experienced and capable people had quit the organization (an extreme recourse, given that for most that involved leaving the community to find jobs elsewhere.) But if you've never dealt with somebody who lies as easily and reflexively as they breathe you really have no idea how destructive such a person can be or how little defense the average person has against someone who can be utterly convincing while peddling the most egregious bullshit.

Watching / listening to / reading Trump's amorphous, ever-shifting claims has been triggering anxiety and depression that I thought I had left behind me years ago, greatly magnified by the fear that we might be putting such a person in charge of not just one small company but the largest economy and most powerful military in the world. Back then I couldn't believe that people couldn't see through the lies. I eventually came to realize that for many it's not a matter of not being able to, it's that they just prefer not to. Being told what you already want to hear can be incredibly seductive and the pathological liars who instinctively exploit this are consequently incredibly dangerous.

If you're not attracted by Trump's lies, count yourself fortunate but don't for a minute underestimate their appeal to a dismayingly large number of people. And my experience suggests that those who have bought into the small lies and held onto them when challenged will more eagerly swallow ever more preposterous whoppers -- many of his deluded victims won't be able to admit they were wrong about him and they will do whatever mental contortions are necessary to avoid facing up to the fact that they eagerly bought into a load of rubbish. We're a long way from the worst of this and I shudder to think how bad it's going to get before it's over.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:53 AM on September 1, 2016 [65 favorites]

Didn't see this posted yet. WaPo has a transcript of Trump's speech with a plethora of helpful annotations. Some of them fairly amusing.
posted by threeturtles at 3:46 AM on September 1, 2016 [17 favorites]

HRC saying America will respond to cyberattacks like any other attack.

Well that's fucking terrifying.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:08 AM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Jake Sherman
‏@JakeSherman
HILLARY CLINTON going up with a 6-figure ad buy in Arizona after TRUMP speech.
posted by colt45 at 4:27 AM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

Yours,
rorgy
the Internet

Unfortunately, I doubt they'll care unless your email includes the phrase "and I'm cancelling my subscription" or, better yet, "I'm pulling my advertising space."
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:45 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

FiveThirtyEight conducted a chat the day before the speech, which I think says all the things I'd want to say about the speech itself but better.

harry: Trump has two problems. The first is that an unusually large segment of Republicans dislike him. The second is that an even larger segment of general election voters dislike him. And many general election voters have an unfavorable view of Trump because of his divisive comments on race and immigration — 59 percent, according to a recent Quinnipiac poll, for example, said “the way Donald Trump talks appeals to bigotry.” And so what happens is Trump is trying to play both sides, and to me seems like he’s playing none. He is losing the general electorate and getting a smaller percentage of Republicans than Clinton is of Democrats.

natesilver: And he’s also doubled and tripled and quadrupled down on bigotry — which is why he probably won’t convince anyone with this shift, if there’s even a shift.

There was no shift, of course, and Trump's sunk himself down further. Every news outlet is reporting yesterday as Trump being two–sided and hateful, except for Fox News, which is just reporting the "hateful" bit. And fine, whatever, Fox viewers love that shit, the general public sure as shit doesn't.

This, too, rings true:

natesilver: I think Trump is getting advice from five different people, and they’re all telling him different things, and he repeats the last thing about immigration he heard.

anna: I don’t think he’s just making a play for Latino voters, Micah. His build-a-wall-and-remove-11-million-people stance isn’t popular with a lot of voters.

harry: When someone is losing, they start throwing stuff up against the wall. That’s what’s going on, in my opinion.

micah: Yeah, it seems like even if he shits positions, Anna, voters won’t forget about his old one.

* “Shifts,” that should say.

natesilver: I think “shits” is more accurate tbh.

micah: We can’t publish that.

posted by rorgy at 4:50 AM on September 1, 2016 [28 favorites]

Yours,
rorgy
the Internet

Mine was just

Dear NYT,

Jump up my butt.

posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

New 538 article on why "live" polls are more trustworthy than online. (Conclusion: 🤔)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:05 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

HRC saying America will respond to cyberattacks like any other attack.
Well that's fucking terrifying.

It was more nuanced than that. If you get a chance, watch her speech to the American Legion. She talked about responding politically and economically, but watch the speech. Someone linked it in here.
posted by cashman at 5:07 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

My mother, whose parents put their lives on the line to save others from fascism, is going to vote for a man who wants to bring fascism back in style in modern day America. And she just plainly does not see it. It's incredibly frustrating, and incredibly sad.
posted by adamp88 at 11:27 PM on August 31 [22 favorites +] [!]

Thank you adamp88, you have my sympathy too. Although there may be other factors involved, on the face of it, that's a perfect summation of the failure of American media to do their jobs.

G.W. Bush can't happen any other way. Trump wouldn't exist without an utter failure to have a complete discussion about political views. The things that need to change the most are the calcified blathering corporate news organizations.
posted by petebest at 5:09 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

NYT paper version of the headline from Patrick Healy (at least in the Boston edition) ended up relatively accurate.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:18 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Mika on Morning Joe has been fidgeting with anger all morning, keeps saying they should stop talking about the "nothingness" and "stupidity" of the Mexico trip

No call out of fascism or concentration camps yet, but one can hope

The rest of those addle-brained, comfortable fucks keep trying to talk about a major political party's flirtation with fucking concentration camps like it's a process story
posted by schadenfrau at 5:19 AM on September 1, 2016 [26 favorites]

Also, for the record, I don't understand why anyone would think that acknowledging that Conway is responsible for making horror more palatable means you think she's somehow less evil? Anyone who's dealt with a covert abuser or narcissist or whatever knows she's the dangerous one. If it ever comes to power, it will come with a face like Conway's. She's terrifying.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:23 AM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

One of Trump's economic advisors (not a Steve) was on BBC Radio 4 this morning and described the wall as: "symbolic", "real", and "hypothetical" in about 30 second span.

"Yes, America, there is a wall. It exists as certainly as death panels and welfare queens and Muslim presidents exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life that highest beauty and joy you get when you watch Hannity. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no wall! It would be as dreary as if there were no Real America. There would be no reverse racism then, no Mexican ISIS, no wordless howling to make tolerable this existence."
posted by PlusDistance at 5:25 AM on September 1, 2016 [17 favorites]

What's terrifying about responding to a cyberattack as if it is as serious and worthy of a proportional response as a conventional attack? Depending on the context it actually is way more serious and could hurt a lot more people than one asshole with a bomb. Am I missing something particularly haunting here? or is it terrifying just because any aggressive posture from a president is offensive?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:31 AM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

I found the Arizona speech reassuring. For the first time I'm no longer scared that Dernald was going to morph into something electable. Self destruction can be a powerful thing. Time to watch the Senate.
posted by DanSachs at 5:35 AM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm going to a Clinton phone banking event tonight, where the special guest is my Congressman, Ruben Gallego. I really like him and the work he's done so far--he's especially focused on veterans' rights and immigration, but also campaigns on a platform of choice, environmental issues, and other progressive positions.

I cannot wait to hear what he has to say about this fascist pustule of a speech.
posted by Superplin at 5:45 AM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN ALSO

Did they translate English to Spanish then back into English or something?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:52 AM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

NYT paper version of the headline from Patrick Healy (at least in the Boston edition) ended up relatively accurate.

What were the changes? I just burned one of my free 10 monthly articles checking the online version, and see no sign of changes nor do I see any any note about updates or corrections.
posted by msalt at 5:56 AM on September 1, 2016

for nerdy Thomas Hardy "Convergence of the Twain" reasons, I can't hear the word "hemispheres" w/o the thinking of the sinking of the Titanic
posted by angrycat at 5:57 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bothwell Scarecrow Festival have an effigy of Trump with its finger over the nuclear button.

[true]

(contains bonus Spiderman)
posted by Devonian at 5:58 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Thinking a bit about the differing media expectations of Trump vs. Clinton:

What is with the media's obsession with "secret" Trump voters? I keep catching discussions that amount to, "this race is actually closer than it is, because some people don't want to admit they're voting Trump when asked!". And yet, I think I have not once seen a media person say "you know, maybe it's as likely (or more likely) that people are ashamed to admit they're voting for Clinton, since us people in the media have been depicting her as the literal devil for about 30 years".
posted by tocts at 5:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [18 favorites]

Don't believe this has been posted yet: The 2016 election, according to 8-year-olds. It's alarming to see how scared all the POC students are about deportation, of themselves and their friends. Two of the funnier highlights:

So we should build a wall?
Build a wall for water. I went to Mexico before and I tried the water and my stomach started hurting.

and:

Do you like Donald Trump’s hair?
I want it.

You want it?
But my mom won’t let me get it.

posted by R a c h e l at 6:01 AM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

New month, new Hillary donation. Let's say NO to fucking fascists.
posted by strange chain at 6:01 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Critics ream Trump immigration address. The head of the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce calls Trump a 'complete clown.'
posted by zarq at 6:08 AM on September 1, 2016 [20 favorites]

I've decided this morning that Trump knows he won't win the election. Instead, he and his campaign team are riling up his core supporters enough to try to bring about a revolution out of screaming, white-hot spite.
posted by mochapickle at 6:17 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I just burned one of my free 10 monthly articles

Pro tip: just open an incognito tab (or clear your cookies) to get around monthly article limits. #breakinthelaw
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [19 favorites]

I think the difficulty with high profile media folk labeling Trump a "fascist" is basically:

TRUMP: [Fascist policy proposal]
JOURNALIST: That is fascism!
TRUMP SURROGATE: How dare you! Everybody knows that the definition of fascism is "1930's Germany" and THIS is AMERICA!

And so you wind up accidentally putting out a message that Trump's policies might be harsh, but they're not fascism, and anyone who says otherwise is just name-calling.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 6:23 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

...Only if you let that paper thin fig leaf made out of spun bullshit go unchallenged, which is exactly the problem.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:28 AM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

Like of course they're not going to agree with you, they're not going to turn around and go "oh my gosh that is rather racist and fascist, I'm so sorry!" and then spontaneously develop the ability to feel shame. So what? You still call it out, you still name it, you still fight it, because it's the right thing to do.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:30 AM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

Pariahs for Donald Trump (nyt)
posted by zarq at 6:31 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Instead, he and his campaign team are riling up his core supporters enough to try to bring about a revolution out of screaming, white-hot spite

Revolutions don't make money. Trump News Network (headed by experienced newsman Roger Ailes!) will make money if millions of anti-immigration folks are watching it 24/7.

I think I've made the comment on here before, but it is worth repeating -- there are a LOT of folks who think Fox News has gotten too soft on this stuff in the past few years, especially because they're not spending every second pointing out illegal immigration/people with brown skin coming to rape and murder YOU - yes YOU - Daniel Richards of Muncie, Indiana. THEY ARE COMING and we NEED A WALL. Those are the folks who'd eat up TNN (or whatever) and Colonial Penn will pay big bucks to advertise there.
posted by splen at 6:32 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Wait until Trump discovers there is a New Mexico. His head will explode.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:32 AM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

And the Times just posted an editorial

I gotta give 'em credit for the line, "...by the time he got to Phoenix."
posted by notsnot at 6:33 AM on September 1, 2016 [18 favorites]

I've decided this morning that Trump knows he won't win the election.

I've decided that people who keep saying this are really hoping they can convince themselves Trump doesn't have a pretty good chance of being the next US President, because the thought is too horrific.

I get that it's disturbing to watch this man rise and rise, because the things he's saying are against everything we believed America stood for, but it's happening.

Maybe instead of a bunch of us thinking "Trump knows he won't win", and trying to contextualize his wild behaviors based on that, we do the opposite. Trump knows he will win, and everything he's done points to his presidency being one of the most brutal, destructive, chaotic times America has experienced in modern times. He'll go down in the history books. You know that not only does he not care how brutal he looks, he probably will revel in it. If he slaughters a million non-white people, he'll be happy that he can stamp TRUMP™ on the massacre.

Folks, Donald Trump not only has a good chance of winning this election, he is trying to win this election. Don't kid yourself into thinking you don't have to act, to stop it, because he isn't really trying. He is really trying. You do have to act.
posted by cashman at 6:43 AM on September 1, 2016 [83 favorites]

I get that it's disturbing to watch this man rise and rise...

Assumes facts not in evidence.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:55 AM on September 1, 2016

Yeah, I think the thing that gets me is that everyone (all the nice right-thinking good people) seem to be pretending this election is not really happening. My friends, even the ones who think that Trump is awful and a threat to our democracy, seem to be sitting back and relaxing and attending Our Revolution meetings rather than speaking out against the fascist horror that is Donald Trump.

At work, there are Trump jokes, but I swear Ryan Lochte's behavior has generated more outrage. If you talk to educated people, it's all: "Ugh, what an awful election, I hate all my choices". Why is it that I see more signs to save the whales in Somerville, Mass. than calls to recognize Donald Trump for what he is?

I feel like people think it's obvious that he's not going to win, it's obvious that people will recognize his rhetoric. It's not obvious at all, particularly when the media does everything they can to normalize this election and keep talking about process and strategy.

I understand why. I feel the reluctance myself. I don't want to put a Clinton bumper sticker on my car, because we are not bumper sticker kind of people. But if there was ever a time to burn a little of the social or cultural capital you've accumulated, this is it.
posted by peacheater at 6:56 AM on September 1, 2016 [36 favorites]

Man, the French were playing the long game sending us that statue
posted by thebrokedown at 6:58 AM on September 1, 2016 [27 favorites]

I for one will be very upset if my Chillary Clinton beer coozies do not arrive before my Labor Day cookout.
posted by palindromic at 6:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

I've decided this morning that Trump knows he won't win the election.

I've decided that people who keep saying this are really hoping they can convince themselves Trump doesn't have a pretty good chance of being the next US President, because the thought is too horrific.

Well I dunno. I don't think he really has much in the way of forward planning, he's just a mix of compulsion, momentum and reactive behaviour - all of which point him towards staying in the race, even if he really has no capacity for understanding what it would mean if he actually one. So dropping out is basically not going to happen, but also any kind of moderation in behaviour that may make him more likely to win isn't going to happen either. And he'll totally run his campaign in a weird cheap spammy way that makes him look like he's not serious because those are his compulsions.

And it may work. It already worked on Republicans.
posted by Artw at 6:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

So apparently, among Trump campaign head Steve Bannon's growing list of crimes, the man was a fucking goldseller.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think the Fivethirtyeight "26% chance" estimate is intuitively about right but in Russian roulette you only have a 16% chance of shooting yourself in the head, and most people aren't all "I like those odds!" 26% is still way too possible for any kind of complacency.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [55 favorites]

Folks, Donald Trump not only has a good chance of winning this election, he is trying to win this election.

Not only that, but if the way the GOP's leadership is reacting to him now is any indication, every hateful thought that fights its way to his lips will be treated as gospel from a crazed but implacable God.

I do not believe he will win, but the possibility must be fought tooth and nail, 'cause if he does get in there, I don't think we can comprehend how bad it will be.
posted by Mooski at 7:00 AM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

So apparently, among Trump campaign head Steve Bannon's growing list of crimes, the man was a fucking goldseller.

Hah, I totally thought that meant he ran one of those schemes to bilk goldbugs out of money, but that's too paleoconservative a kind of awful for the Gamergate age.
posted by Artw at 7:03 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Another way to look at it... 25% is the odds of flipping a coin twice and having it land heads up both times. Is that something where you feel like "That would never happen"? Or does that feel like a very plausible outcome of flipping a coin twice, to you? A Donald Trump presidency is about that plausible.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:05 AM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yeah, I still don't think Trump has much of a chance of winning if Hillary actually works to win, which she's doing.

But it's certainly still good to go out and volunteer for your candidate.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:08 AM on September 1, 2016

I do not believe he will win, but the possibility must be fought tooth and nail, 'cause if he does get in there, I don't think we can comprehend how bad it will be.

He already compares himself to Brexit, which is apt as voting him in would be a bad decision that would only become apparent to those who did it as the consequences of what they'd find began to stack up, but as awful as it was and as much as it was a nation voting to declare themselves racist shitheads Brexit didn't result in, say, Russian tanks rolling into the Balkans, which a Trump election surely does.

So yeah, don't drift into this one.
posted by Artw at 7:09 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Hah, I totally thought that meant he ran one of those schemes to bilk goldbugs out of money, but that's too paleoconservative a kind of awful for the Gamergate age.

It's definitely something that if you aren't part of MMO culture, you'll probably go "huh?"

And if you are, well...chances are this is just further evidence that he's evil.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:12 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Do the polls account for partisan voter rolls purging?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:15 AM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

That's the invisible voters the Trump team keeps talking about, Joe. Their thinking is that they don't have to have a ground game because all these people are just going to go vote for him, because it's destiny, or something.

Which is why the Clinton team can't worry about the Trump ground game and only about theirs.
posted by yhbc at 7:16 AM on September 1, 2016

schadenfrau: Mika on Morning Joe has been fidgeting with anger all morning, keeps saying they should stop talking about the "nothingness" and "stupidity" of the Mexico trip

Mika, in a video linked by ChurchHatesTucker in the prior thread: Donnie, you have no idea what your words mean. No idea. And no idea what you're doing to this country.

And then Mika continues to sigh the sigh of someone who is completely out of evens.

dances_with_sneetches: Wait until Trump discovers there is a New Mexico. His head will explode.

He knows where we are. When he visited as a GOP hopeful in May (WSJ), some protesters got violent (local reporting). And in June, Donnie switched his views on NM Governor Susana Martinez, saying "She's not doing the job," but then said he'd like her endorsement. She returned the snub, having one of the youngest GOP deligates pledge NM's 24 votes for Donny.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

From what I've read here, in normal elections you have lots of people working hard at getting people to vote. If that's not happening on the Republican side then they're going to lose a lot of potential votes, even if they start polling better.

Every ~~klan~~ Trump rally has the state Republican party leader (or other state party official where the leader won't show up out of disgrace) with the same anemic appeals to go out and volunteer to make phone calls. They're the only ones that mention it at all. Nobody else in the cavalcade of shit ever mentions the ground game.

Compare to the Clinton campaign where at every rally, at the end of every speaker's speech, is a call to get out there and help win this thing together.
posted by Talez at 7:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why is it that I see more signs to save the whales in Somerville, Mass. than calls to recognize Donald Trump for what he is?

Chuck Todd. NPR. MSNBC. Is one of them going out to say it? Is one of them saying "these are fascist sentiments"? "This supports the Klan"?

Nope.

I thought W would break them, I really did. 2004 was corporate news' Waterloo. I thought Sarah Palin would break them, I really did. Did they not just hear that?!?

And yet, here we are. Looking directly into a bad-spray-on-tanned, toupeé-wearing, lie-spouting, narcissistic, racist hate-monger GOP Presidential nominee talking about concentration camps. G*ddamn, y'all.
posted by petebest at 7:39 AM on September 1, 2016 [32 favorites]

NPR said Trump was going to Cinci to speak to the American Legion today. Anyone know what time?
posted by rp at 7:42 AM on September 1, 2016

A follow-up to the NYT's changes to the piece on Trump's immigration speech: Comparing: Trump Gambles on Immigration in Trip and Rally. Lots of red and green there.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:43 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Do the polls account for the GOP's lack of a ground campaign? From what I've read here, in normal elections you have lots of people working hard at getting people to vote. If that's not happening on the Republican side then they're going to lose a lot of potential votes, even if they start polling better.

My understanding is that this is the difference of polls that track likely voters (LV) versus registered voters (RV). Their sample selection for either gives you an indication of what the poll is modeling.
posted by codacorolla at 7:44 AM on September 1, 2016

Trump is scheduled for noon local time.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:45 AM on September 1, 2016

Mika: Donald Trump 'Couldn't Even Get This Right' | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Highlights:
- Mika refuses to read an Ann Coulter quote.
- The gang learns how to say "clown" in spanish
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:51 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

- The gang learns how to say "clown" in spanish

It's Always Hacky on Morning Joe
posted by tonycpsu at 7:52 AM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

Oof, adamp88, for what it's worth you have all of my sympathy. The situation you describe with your mother has got to be hard to deal with, painful, and demoralizing.

Thanks, and yes, it is. Did I mention that I'm going to down to visit my parents this weekend? I'm just going to have to impose a strict ban on politics as soon as we walk in the door, or else I could very much see myself getting so angry that I pack up the car and head home (7 hours away) early.
posted by adamp88 at 7:53 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump already spoke at the American Legion. It was sometime around 9:30ish this morning.
posted by cashman at 7:54 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, he must have a rally at noon. (Or his website messed up)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:56 AM on September 1, 2016

Mika: Donald Trump 'Couldn't Even Get This Right' | Morning Joe | MSNBC

"I gave him an A+ because he managed to not drool on himself while standing next to a world leader"
posted by Talez at 8:00 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump already spoke at the American Legion. It was sometime around 9:30ish this morning.

Well, poop. For those of us who missed it the full vid went up a few minutes ago.

Crowd already seems a lot more cheery than HRC's, yesterday. Unsurprsingly, a lot less substantive in actual speech-- "teach our children respect for our flag, you see what's happening, very, very sad."
posted by rp at 8:02 AM on September 1, 2016

ChurchHatesTucker: Highlights (from Morning Joe)

"He pulled off 25 minutes of looking different"

Lower the bar so that you can just hop over it. Bravo, Donnie.

HE WASN'T A DIPLOMAT. HE WAS A ORANGE BAG OF MEAT WITH FLUFF ON TOP. HE DID AND SAID NOTHING OF VALUE OR IMPORTANCE.

Also, his Arizona "return to primary mode" rally had ABSOLUTELY NO POLICIES. Right? Right? It was pitched as a policy presentation, but as Mika pointed out, it was full-on primary "please believe my hype" mode.

He made fools of everyone on his campaign ... AND "PARTNERS" IN MEXICO. His five shared goals weren't discussed in Phoenix, he just went back to "Mexico will pay for the wall, 100%. They don't know it yet, but they'll pay for the wall."

Those 5 points, as a reminder:
1. End illegal immigration, not only between Mexico and US, but South American countries and beyond, into both countries
2. We respect the right for either country to build a wall on their territory. Cooperation towards this shared benefit is paramount
3. Close down drug cartels, only can be done with cooperation and intelligence sharing
4. Improving NAFTA, a 22 year old agreement that must be updated to address the realities of today; keep industry in our hemisphere. Workers in both countries need a pay raise, improve pay standards and working conditions
5. Keep manufacturing wealth in our hemisphere (Mexico, Central America and US)

Phoenix:
1. Build a glorious wall, Mexico will pay for it 100%
2. Triple the ICE staffing
3. Deportation task force
And maybe they can deport Hillary.

#1 Rabble rouser, nothing more.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

I've posted this picture of my neighbor's house before. I now have a Hillary yard sign which is quite dwarfed by his massive display, but I'm not afraid for our safety, unless he notices the mezuzah on the door, which is highly unlikely.

What I am worried about is the street that backs ours. I live on an all one story residential home street, but the street that backs ours are all small apartment buildings (fourplexes and such) and they are almost exclusively Latinx families. They are folks who will wave and smile at you if you wave and smile first, but it seems like they mostly expect the homeowners to treat them with disdain. I see people hanging out in the alley all the time working on cars, teaching their kids how to ride bikes and shooting the shit. There was a bit of a gang problem about 5-7 years ago, but that seems to have gone away. Once in a while we get some graffiti in the alley separating our streets, which the city cleans up within 72 hours, and it seems to be far less than it used to be, maybe once a year now.

After last night, I am worried for these people. Specifically, I feel like this neighbor is just waiting for one of the men or boys to seem like he might be doing something suspicious and he "gets" to take matters into his own hands. And I worry that the police will back him up because he also has a Support Police sign in his yard. Ugh.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:07 AM on September 1, 2016 [22 favorites]

I don't know how the Mexico City to Phoenix farce will play out, but the polls _have_ tightened, folks. A non-significant number of people have weighed muck thrown at the Clinton Foundation more than her extortations against the alt-right. What this says about US in general I don't know, but what it says about the race isn't pleasant. Trump can still win.

Presidential elections are not won by popular vote, they're won by electoral votes. Anyway, you can start worrying if the Trump campaign *ever* gets around to setting up a ground campaign.

You can also check to see if the GOP has learned any lessons in 2016 from the much-tighter 2012 race.

[spoiler]

They haven't.
posted by My Dad at 8:07 AM on September 1, 2016

Why is the cheery crowd at Trump's American Legion appearance reminding me of this?
posted by pxe2000 at 8:10 AM on September 1, 2016

Donald Trump Jr. retweets psychologist who believes Jews manipulate society [real]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:17 AM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

wtf
posted by mazola at 8:18 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

More from Morning Joe's 20 minute segment: Mika opens the conversation with President and CEO of the US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Javier Palomarez by asking "is there a legitimate conversation to have..." and Joe cuts her off, asking instead "what's your take from yesterday."

"It makes for great television, but I agree with Mika, that there's nothing there."

Joe tries to bluster through the boring facts and figures, but then jokes [but isn't joking] "what did Donnie actually say in yesterday's events?"

Best lines from Javier: "The reality is, he hasn't done anything to help himself in growing the number [of supporters], and so I think he's done for with the Hispanic community, he's never going to see the White House if he doesn't get a significant portion of the Hispanic vote."

From early August, Latino Voice Florida Poll: Trump at 12.9% support among Hispanic voters (Romney had 39% in Florida).

Yeah, not gonna happen. And Javier went on to say there's nothing Donny can do to win Latin@s back in the 2 months.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:20 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

The psychologist in question has an extensive bio over at the SPLC.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:20 AM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

tl;dw/r: MIKA FOR THE FSKING WIN.

Why is this Joe's show? Bigger question, why is it that only the female journalists who ask the tough questions, say "fuck this noise" when it comes to reporting pointless noise. "People like that have no place, no place, in the mainstream media." #TeamMika. Male jouros, you're (mostly) an embarrassment.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:23 AM on September 1, 2016 [20 favorites]

Presidential elections are not won by popular vote, they're won by electoral votes. Anyway, you can start worrying if the Trump campaign *ever* gets around to setting up a ground campaign.

Sure. As a rule of thumb, a) state polls always lag national polls, and b) Clinton's national margin is roughly her advantage in OH & FL at least, c) except in VA, whatever movement there has been so far has been nationally.

I think we're about to see precisely how much advantage a good ground campaign can give a candidate in this election.
posted by the cydonian at 8:28 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Shorter clip: 'Payaso': Hispanic Leader Says Donald Trump A 'Clown' | Morning Joe | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:31 AM on September 1, 2016

Nate Silver: Election Update: As The Race Tightens, Don’t Assume The Electoral College Will Save Clinton

I can't decide if he's despondent or just overly cautious.
posted by anastasiav at 8:31 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

I can't decide if he's despondent or just overly cautious.

Silver is still reeling over his failure with Trump in the primaries.
posted by Twain Device at 8:33 AM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

My corner store is run by Spanish-speaking immigrants. We've gotten to know each other a bit through the years. We are hindered by our lack of a common, fluent language but they are neighbors I like and value. I've been thinking about them through this election season and in particular after last night. I want them to know that Trump does not represent my beliefs but I don't know what I can say that isn't awkward, intrusive or plain old weird. So I just found myself there buying a soda I don't really want and smiling a beat too long like a nut.

I think it's time I put a Clinton sign in my window.
posted by mcduff at 8:34 AM on September 1, 2016 [49 favorites]

LIVE Stream: VP Joe Biden Campaigns for Hillary Clinton in Warren, Ohio (September 1, 2016)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:39 AM on September 1, 2016

Ugh, why does YouTube open the chat feed by default?
posted by GameDesignerBen at 8:44 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

"When I use a word," Trumpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Hillary, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Trumpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:45 AM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

can't decide if he's despondent or just overly cautious.

Silver is still reeling over his failure with Trump in the primaries.

They might be paranoid that the discrepancy between online and in person polls actually does represent the shy Trump voter.
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Silver is still reeling over his failure with Trump in the primaries.

To be fair, I think a lot of people are reeling when it comes to Trump. This is the election where everyone's model of how things work is being tested.
posted by nubs at 8:52 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I can't decide if he's despondent or just overly cautious.

The meat of that article is "DON'T BLAME ME, THINGS CAN HAPPEN OK? I PREDICTED THIS TIGHTENING BUT STILL. ARGH"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:54 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is the Clinton campaign really desperate for cash? I get 5,000 emails a day with subject likes like "crisis!" and I don't know if there is a crisis or not. Frickin' Carole King emailed me the other day!
posted by Biblio at 8:55 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

I can't decide if he's despondent or just overly cautious.

I thought the headline was clickbait and did not match the article, which basically says that Clinton is still in the lead, just not as much of a lead. The article easily could have been "Clinton's convention bounce has receded, she still decisively leads the race."

I'm not very impressed by how Silver has had to contort 538 to make it stand-alone and pay salaries.
posted by OmieWise at 8:56 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Frickin' Carole King emailed me the other day!

you've got a friend.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:58 AM on September 1, 2016 [58 favorites]

Theory: Online polls poll people with frequent and convenient access to the internet. Those folks are more likely to be influenced by the daily news cycle INCLUDING other polls. Meanwhile the live polls are often more weighted towards people who have landlines, ie are older or at least more traditional and do not swing their opinions around like dead cats whenever their cool cousin who's still in college posts a dank meme. IMO 2 the latter group is more likely to vote, hence, Hillary Landslide Still In Play.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

They got this up last night: Donald Trump’s wall: a bad idea from an even worse negotiator | The Briefing
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:00 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

> They got this up last night: Donald Trump’s wall: a bad idea from an even worse negotiator | The Briefing

Matt Bors has this:

no illegals gonna take our jobs!
- honey, we dont have jobs.

posted by farlukar at 9:13 AM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

I thought the headline was clickbait and did not match the article...

Exactly this. The article pretty much says "Clinton is still in the lead, though things have tighten, so there's still a chance that Trump could win, but there's also a chance that that you'll see an airplane today, so we're just saying "For god sakes Hillary, don't coast," but yeah, she's still on track, just covering our asses here.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:14 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

To be fair, I think a lot of people are reeling when it comes to Trump. This is the election where everyone's model of how things work is being ~~tested~~ crumpled up and tossed in the bin.
posted by notyou at 9:17 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Theory: Online polls poll people with frequent and convenient access to the internet ... Meanwhile the live polls are often more weighted towards people who have landlines

Neither of these are particularly hard to work around, but at the same time that doesn't mean that any particular pollster did any of the things to do the working-around.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:19 AM on September 1, 2016

I want them to know that Trump does not represent my beliefs but I don't know what I can say that isn't awkward, intrusive or plain old weird.

"Trump es un pendejo" ?
posted by leahwrenn at 9:20 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

The thing is, all of the models and polls showed Trump with a commanding advantage through the entire primaries. It wasn't the models that were broken at all, it was the pollsters-turned-pundits who spent the entire primary seasons inventing reasons not to believe their own auguries.
posted by absalom at 9:20 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

To be fair, I think a lot of people are reeling when it comes to Trump. This is the election where everyone's model of how things work is being tested

I can't wait for the traditional after election reports that show what each campaign was going through in intimate detail. Fully intend to read the part about Trump while in the bathroom.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

"But he also showed himself to be the purest kind of bully and coward. If that point is pressed it'll get to him and he'll act out. The most effective folks to press the point is the opposing campaign. So watch closely whether they actually follow through." (TPM)

Anybody see an Hillary surrogates on the attack today?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:22 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I can't wait for the traditional after election reports that show what each campaign was going through in intimate detail. Fully intend to read the part about Trump while in the bathroom.

I wouldn't be surprised if some informal arrangements are already going on to get an HBO or Netflix movie ready for this time next year.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:23 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Some "quote a day" thing coughed up the following [real] A.Ham quote for me today:

“For my individual part my mind is made up. I will never more be responsible for him [Adams] by my direct support—even though the consequence should be the election of Jefferson. If we must have an enemy at the head of the Government, let it be one whom we can oppose & for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures. Under Adams as under Jefferson the government will sink. The party in the hands of whose chief it shall sink will sink with it and the advantage will all be on the side of his adversaries.”
posted by anastasiav at 9:24 AM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hey, has anyone read Hillary's Wikipedia page? I did last night and it's a frigging amazing account of her life and work. But I can't tell if its PR spin, because it almost sounds too good to be true and its the sort of thing I haven't heard much about in her campaign.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:28 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

The NY Times tracks eight presidential forecasts (scroll down to "How Other Forecasts Compare"). Seven of those are for-profit, including 538. They have the race as: "Leaning Dem", "Leaning Dem", "Likely Dem", 73% Dem, 77% Dem, 77% Dem, and 87% Dem.

Only one is not for profit, has no ads, and therefore has no need to pull in daily clicks - Princeton Election Consortium. 95% Dem.

Nate Silver has officially become the click-baiting pundit his initial rise was premised on counteracting.
posted by one_bean at 9:30 AM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

Too good to be true? Com'on now, Hillary always has been and continues to be a person who works hard and incredibly effectively. I can't wait for her to be President.
posted by agregoli at 9:30 AM on September 1, 2016 [26 favorites]

Wikipedia editors don't strike me as Clinton's natural fan base, so I'm inclined to trust the accuracy of anything positive that stays up on her page
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:33 AM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

Nate Silver is much less click baity and reasonable on the fivethirtyeight podcast than in the articles.
posted by zutalors! at 9:33 AM on September 1, 2016

Biblio: Frickin' Carole King emailed me the other day!

quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon: you've got a friend.

In need of cash, it seems.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:35 AM on September 1, 2016

538's articles (or at least the headlines) might be clickbaity, but he's always been very open about how the forecasts are calculated. To imply that PEC - by far the biggest outlier - is the most accurate because it's not-for-profit is just silly.
posted by Roommate at 9:37 AM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

~~STATISTICIANS~~ RESEARCH PHYSICISTS NEED PORSCHES TOO!
posted by petebest at 9:39 AM on September 1, 2016

Well, PEC was also the most accurate in 2012.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:40 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

In need of cash, it seems.

A friend indeed!
posted by notsnot at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

is there a name for the phenomenon where my brain interprets all probabilities above 70% as 100%
posted by murphy slaw at 9:44 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Murphy Slaw's Law?
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

murphy slaw: is there a name for the phenomenon where my brain interprets all probabilities above 70% as 100%

Optimism?
posted by Superplin at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

So apparently, among Trump campaign head Steve Bannon's growing list of crimes, the man was a fucking goldseller.

Total first world problem here but for those of you unfamiliar with how this works, here's a brief primer.

Gold has to be earned in World of Warcraft. Typically, you earn it via quests, slaying baddies, a trade, or via the auction house. While there's plenty of ways to earn gold, if you're impatient there is a temptation to want to earn it faster. There are certain items that require a ton of gold (I recently bought a yak that cost 120,000 gold and since I mostly play solo, that took me nine months) .

Gold sellers create characters that power grind content to earn gold. They then spam a link out in general or trade chat (and I suppose they have websites) where you pay them and they transfer a certain amount of gold to your character. It's not legal in the game and is generally looked down on as cheating and annoying. This being the internet, there is a greater than. zero number of people who are enraged about gold selling as if it's a high crime.

To counter this practice, WoW introduced game tokens. You can now buy a game time token from Blizzard (WoW's parent company) for cash and put it up for sale in the in-game auction house. Somebody in game will buy that token wirh gold which you get. It's a legal in-game process now so players are protected from scams and I've not seen gold sellers in trade chat since they introduced this.

On the grand scale of awfulness, this ranks somewhere around overcharging for weed because you claim there is a shortage but there's not really a shortage. It makes some of the smokers furious but nobody else gets the big deal.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

The meat of that article is "DON'T BLAME ME, THINGS CAN HAPPEN OK? I PREDICTED THIS TIGHTENING BUT STILL. ARGH"

What's disappointing is that, in 2008 and 2012, FiveThirtyEight did the opposite of this. Its tone was one of, "This literally always happens. Chill the fuck out."

And in both cycles, it nailed the results.

With Trump in the primary, their attitude was a similar "Chill the fuck out," but they adopted that in the face of polls that were overwhelmingly in Trump's favor. They put too much faith in the assumption that the polls would die down once people started paying attention—and that Republican voters valued polite veneers as much as Republican politicians do.

Now they're spooked, and, despite all the evidence pointing to a solid Clinton win, if not a ground–game–enabled landslide—and if you don't remember how Obama's superior ground game led to his decisive victory over Romney, please do keep that in mind, and remember that Trump's ground game makes Romney's look world–class—they publish article after article on why Trump still has a good chance. Not because there's evidence that he does, and in their conversations they go over all the possible arguments for Trump making a comeback, concluding always that those arguments are absurd before going back to their grind of fearmongering analyses.

Their much–touted "polls–plus" predictor, the one that does more than just analyze where the polls are going, has consistently given Trump better odds than their polls–only predictor. Keep in mind that their polls–only showed Trump winning the primaries all the way, and their polls–plus was the one telling everybody that Trump was sunk for sure. Meanwhile the Upshot has Clinton at 88%, and Sam Wang has her at 94%, which are as good as saying that, right now, something unpredecented would have to happen between now and November for Trump to even have a chance (but Hillary's got this if the chaos stays relatively on pace).

Panic gets us nothing. If you care about this election, volunteer. You can do that and go home feeling like you did something excellent and not freak the fuck out over the orange man saying the things he's dumb enough to say.
posted by rorgy at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2016 [23 favorites]

From the SPLC link above, Donald Jr.'s new twitbuddy is a man who

. . . produced two more volumes on the Jews, "Separation and its Discontents: Toward an Evolutionary Theory of Anti-Semitism" (1998), and "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements" (1998). Taken together, the trilogy provides a whole new justification for anti-Semitism . . .

[emphasis added]

Don't you worry, ol' Chuck Todd will not let this latest light on the ugly racist truth about Trump escape comparison to Hillary. Gingerballs is ON IT.
posted by petebest at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

is there a name for the phenomenon where my brain interprets all probabilities above 70% as 100%

Can you give me some of this this because my brain keeps interpreting any probability under 80% as 50%
posted by like_neon at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2016 [21 favorites]

I kinda want to join whatever analytics team Clinton’s campaign has. How do they decide amounts? I’m sure in aggregate it’s very effective. But I'm really not sure that someone who has a recurring donation and who responds to one of those "give $x now texts" and actually does two donations, is going to be swayed by "Hillary needs you now more than ever -- chip in $100 and receive a free sticker".

If they're anything like the Obama analytics team (and I strongly suspect they are), it's a windowless room full of folks with fancy computers and advanced degrees in math and social sciences from MIT, Princeton, and so forth. Whatever they're doing has either been A/B tested to hell and back, or you're part of the A/B test. They know what they're doing.
posted by dersins at 9:51 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

The comment from zombieflanders really bothers me from a family relationships standpoint. Jared Kushner, his brother in law, was born a Jew and Ivanka, his sister, converted to Judaism. You have to ask yourself if the Kushners are at all concerned for the safety of their family since her own brother seems to have drank the Kool-Aid of the alt-right.

This relates to the election as a whole in that we form families today in such different ways than the country did even fifty years ago. How many families exist today by blending races, religions, gender status and identity and cultures? Are we all going to sleep at night wondering if the alt-right is coming for our families, friends and neighbors tomorrow?

I'm quite certain the Kushners have the resources to avoid any unpleasantness, up to and including leaving the country with plenty of money, but what about the average family? If Trump's candidacy has empowered the alt-right enough to gain traction as a viable faction in the media, I can't imagine the people in it will just stand down when this interminable election cycle ends. I fear for all of us and I ask us all to remember this little piece as we go forward, regardless of how the election ends.

I don't mean to be overly emotional about this issue, but I think we've seen Trump's rally supporters in action enough to be concerned about what a mob mentality can do. You might say we have laws to deal with that stuff (now), but for how long? In addition,that ignores the potential loss of people to alt-right violence.

I'm not sure we get this genie back in the bottle.
posted by Silverstone at 9:53 AM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Joe Biden tried to do a sick burn on Trump and the result was adorably klutzy:
"[Trump] was born with a silver spoon in his mouth that he's now choking on because his foot's in his mouth along with the spoon." —Joe Biden

Somewhere, the ghost of Ann Richards slowly shakes her head and sighs "Oh, Joe..."
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:53 AM on September 1, 2016 [61 favorites]

is there a name for the phenomenon where my brain interprets all probabilities above 70% as 100%

It's probably related to the one that interprets 49% of one's life left to go as being pretty good, but if it's a phone battery, it causes a slight panic.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:55 AM on September 1, 2016 [17 favorites]

Well I liked the Biden burn.
posted by mazola at 9:55 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thanks Spaceman, that's just what I needed since I never know if my phone will die at 20% battery or 1%
posted by Yowser at 9:59 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

The big chart at the NYT is useful in that it makes clear that state polls currently give Clinton the edge for 273 EVs before even considering Florida and Ohio.

Now, to be clear, that's also a reflection of where the national race stands right now, and how it manifests itself across different states, so the map only really comes into play if things tighten further. As Mike Murphy said, "Show me a poll with Trump in upper 40's winning a swing state and I'll say race has changed." The latest round of PPP state polls is still showing H48 / T42 numbers for the swingiest states.

It's September. Labor Day has a lot of Clinton/Kaine stuff on the schedule. (Not so much right now for Trump/Pence, as Trump heads back to Mar-a-Lago for the weekend.) Kick-off time.
posted by holgate at 10:00 AM on September 1, 2016

Metafilter: I recently bought a yak that cost 120,000 gold
posted by DiscountDeity at 10:02 AM on September 1, 2016 [21 favorites]

Following on the heels of the petebest comment above:

From the psych professor's profile on SPLC: Neo-Nazi Victor Gerhard wrote in 2003 that MacDonald's (psych prof) The Culture of Critique "is completely true; that to rail against blacks and Hispanics without mentioning Jews is like complaining about the symptoms and not the disease."

There have also been multiple mentions of 1924 being a "solution" to 2016, 1924 referring to the Immigration Act of 1924 which effectively halted Jewish immigration to the US, but an odd reference choice because it did not limit Latin American immigration at all.

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?
posted by Sophie1 at 10:03 AM on September 1, 2016 [17 favorites]

is there a name for the phenomenon where my brain interprets all probabilities above 70% as 100%

Could be dyscalculia, perhaps a slight version of it.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:05 AM on September 1, 2016

AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO THE DEBATES!

As a reminder, poll movement is 'noisy' and shouldn't be watched too closely (2012 graph over 2008 graph).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

Call me sheltered but I am not used to seeing it come up at all outside of who does/doesn't approve of Israeli policies. It's come up enough that I'm suprised it's not getting more attention.
posted by Artw at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2016 [18 favorites]

Sophie1: Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

Worse as in more public? If so, that could be caused by the 24/7 news cycles that need new blood because like some sharks, if they stop moving they die.

Or worse as in they make less sense than they used to? If that's your point, I'd like to suggest that "alt-right" could also imply "alternative reality right," where they are not bound by your "logic" or your "history" and they bravely forge their own reality. (See also: Conservapedia, "correcting" the liberal bias of reality.)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:09 AM on September 1, 2016

I guess like the GOap nominee being a Russian asset his campaign being riddled with actual literal neo-Nazis is considered too extreme a thing to talk about even though both are true.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

i think anti-semitism is more fearless than it's been in a long time, but the wells of white nationalism that it bubbles up from have been full for much longer than that. stormfront is not a new phenomenon, many subcultures that i've participated in have had to deal with interactions with skinhead culture since at least the late 80's.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:12 AM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

No, I know that stormfront and the like have been around a long time and there have been various aryan/white/nationalist/odinist/skinhead/militia activities most active throughout the PNW and South and then spread around throughout the rest of the country, for ages.

What I mean is, they all seemed very chaotic, losing and gaining leadership and membership. Being sued out of existence, infighting, etc. and now, it just seems slightly more organized, a little less chaotic, a little more acceptable and so much more mainstream.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:18 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

The overall language used by right-wing elements lately — not just in the US, but also in the UK, France, Sweden, Austria and other Western nations — is of a decidedly more authoritarian kind, directed at singling out several minorities for violent subjugation (especially Muslims and GLBT). It seems to be part of a global trend of populist fascist movements that are on the rise, of late.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

part of it is that you have the GOP nominee standing up in front of crowds and saying things that allow white nationalists to say:

"that! that right there! that's what we've been saying all along!"
*pause*
"also there's an international zionist conspiracy to exterminate the white race"

but by the time they get to point two the media have usually turned off the microphone already
posted by murphy slaw at 10:24 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Techies donate to Clinton in droves
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:26 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I will raise my hand as someone who has been surprised by the overt anti-Semitism. I will confess that before this election cycle I did think that too much of a big deal was being made about anti-Semitism compared to anti-Muslim sentiment and general racism. I also thought that anti-Semitism was brought up too often when criticisms of Israel's policies were made. That battle was won, and Jews were now firmly in the American mainstream, I thought. Have to say, I was wrong about that. There's a lot more anti-Semitism out there than I imagined, and I can see why people have a hair-trigger sensitivity to it.
posted by peacheater at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2016 [44 favorites]

What I mean is, they all seemed very chaotic, losing and gaining leadership and membership. Being sued out of existence, infighting, etc. and now, it just seems slightly more organized, a little less chaotic, a little more acceptable and so much more mainstream.

They were chaotic because they weren't winning. They think they are now -- when Trump gets his ass kicked, the knives will come back out.
posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I shared the same perception of anti-Semitism until a powerful conversation with a more diverse group of American Jews last year - I thought the presence of those sort of attitudes here was pretty overstated, to be honest, and I had NO IDEA that the people from communities with far fewer Jewish people still faced so much anger and confusion about their religion from "normal people". Some of those Jewish people even used anti-Jewish slurs and antisemitic expressions - expressions that were a common part of their vernacular but I had literally never even heard of. Really surprising stuff.

But then I think about the fact that there are roughly the same number of Mormons and Jews in the US (the worldwide numbers are also very similar), and yet I can count all the Mormons I know on one hand. And unfortunately I've definitely heard some gross anti-Mormon comments. So I can see how a similar pattern would come up in communities where there are similarly few Jews and how ignorant those in other places would be of that.

As far as that whole sentiment, I'm not sure how much is coming to the surface vs. how much is just becoming more visible in the media. Either way, ugh.
posted by R a c h e l at 10:38 AM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

dersins: Agreed re their A/B testing all the communication. I get a lot of emails and texts and sometimes they are surprising or jar a bit, but I know that they have smart people working on it. It's like the non-intuitive results kind of thing where what we individually think should be the case surprisingly isn't.
posted by R343L at 10:41 AM on September 1, 2016

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

I'm going to say yes it does. I think the alt-right is a new group of antisemites, and they are public and vicious in a way I have not seen in my life. Everybody I know who is publicly Jewish online right now runs the real risk of being made a target for explicitly and sadistically antisemitic harassment, and I have never seen that before.

Yes, it's been around before. But this is new and it is real, and should not be underestimated.
posted by maxsparber at 10:43 AM on September 1, 2016 [28 favorites]

It's like the non-intuitive results kind of thing where what we individually think should be the case surprisingly isn't.

GOTV phonebanking and canvassing is like this, too: people always claim--believe, even--that it doesn't work on them, and that if they get any more calls or door-knocks it's just going to piss them off and maybe even make them not vote. Except that it's been demonstrated time and again that each contact results in a small but very real increase in turnout.
posted by dersins at 10:46 AM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

I think the alt-right is a new group of antisemites

New branding, anyways.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:47 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes, I did phonebanking again yesterday, and got a committed Hillary supporter in Provincetown who seemed genuinely excited about her and about the recent fundraiser they had there. But she did go on about the emails for fundraising and how tired she was of them (which I totally get, since I get them too). I sympathized with her on the phone. Ultimately, she agreed to volunteer for the campaign, but said she only wanted to receive phone calls from the campaign, since she's "filtering all those emails from now on."
posted by peacheater at 10:53 AM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Oh and I forgot to tell you my little bit of excitement: now have my own Votebuilder account! Feel like I get to sneak a peek into this massive data machine.
posted by peacheater at 10:54 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

From the Mother Jones Trump Files: Why Donald Called His 4-Year-Old Son a "Loser":

Seven o'clock in the morning, I'm going to school—hugs, kisses, and he used to say a couple things. 'No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.' I think a great lesson for any kid. But then he followed up with: 'Don't. Trust. Anyone. Ever.' And, you know, he'd follow it up two seconds later with, 'So, do you trust me?' I'd say, 'Of course, you're my dad.' He'd say, 'What did I just—' You know, he thought I was a total failure. He goes, 'My son's a loser, I guess.'

posted by palindromic at 11:01 AM on September 1, 2016 [24 favorites]

Hey, he had it good. Tiffany had to wait every year for a fax on her birthday calling her a loser.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:04 AM on September 1, 2016 [32 favorites]

Oh and I forgot to tell you my little bit of excitement: now have my own Votebuilder account!

The first thing everyone does--as soon as they have access to do so--is they look themselves up.

Amirite?
posted by dersins at 11:06 AM on September 1, 2016

peacheater: OMG yes. It's such an interesting system! There's especially the interesting bit that the data is heavily partitioned and your individual campaign (like we have a regional WA "coordinated" one that has its own dataset). You can import from other lists but only have access to some information. I've looked myself up to mark myself attending stuff (actually I need to mark myself attending a bunch of events) and our local WA dataset clearly doesn't have the full record that the national people must have. It's pretty neat.
posted by R343L at 11:07 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Gold sellers create characters that power grind content to earn gold.

As an aside to illustrate what a shitty process this is. They force inmates in Chinese prisons to play Wow and other games to grind the in-game currency and it's often considered the worst work detail one can be assigned to.

You can be certain that Bannon didn't actually farm the gold himself but had a bunch of people likely doing it for little pay while he treated them like shit. I mean, maybe there was profit sharing and he treated the employees/co-conspirators well but nothing in his past suggests that that would be the case.

The other thing that sucks about gold sellers is that they drive up inflation of the in-game currency because they get the gold by killing NPC enemies and that creates currency out of thin air. The player base does this naturally and it's a problem for a lot of games but a large influx of gold farmers will kick it into overdrive.
posted by VTX at 11:07 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump Is No Richard Nixon:

Even a quick-change artist like Nixon would have hesitated at all the pivots Trump has attempted. And even more so, Nixon would have realized that you can’t go the full George Wallace in the primaries, then transform into a respectable politician two months before election day. In 1968, Nixon and Wallace got a combined total of nearly 57 percent of the vote. Donald Trump is likely to get far less than that, because at the end of the day 2016 is not 1968.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:17 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I still can't believe that nobody in the press has latched onto the deport Hillary line.

WHERE WOULD WE DEPORT HER TO, DONNY?!?
posted by Talez at 11:21 AM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

I must have a less high-powered login than you all, because I can't actually look anyone up. Which is slightly annoying since I have to get the admin to enter in notes for me if someone calls me back or I have additional info to add.
posted by peacheater at 11:22 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bamboozled! What Made Everyone Think Trump Was Changing on Immigration?:

What we were left with was the Trump we have always known. He wants a border wall, he is certain Mexico will pay for it and he gave no indication that he wouldn't deport the 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the country.

So what happened? How did we come to believe Trump might reform his policies ahead of the general election? We didn't create this. Here are the clues over the last two weeks that set the stage for the big Trump speech in Phoenix that turned out not to be so big at all.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:23 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Once you've advocated assassination an illegal deportation seems like a "softening" "pivot".
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:23 AM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

WHERE WOULD WE DEPORT HER TO, DONNY?!?

Guantanamo, I would guess. For some of that relaxing and soothing waterboarding treatment he's so fond of.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:23 AM on September 1, 2016

peacheater: I'm doing data entry from sign up sheets and such from events (and sometimes manual call logs). It's very interesting trying to figure out if the person I find already in the system is the same as the info on the signup.
posted by R343L at 11:26 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ah got it, yes there was such a guy at the phone banking yesterday. He didn't want to make calls, so he was supposed to do data entry, but they were saying there wasn't much data entry for him to do since everything was digital, so they were going to put him to work compiling a one pager on the major issues.
posted by peacheater at 11:28 AM on September 1, 2016

Donald Trump has a total of one field office open in Florida. One.
posted by OmieWise at 11:28 AM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

I still can't believe that nobody in the press has latched onto the deport Hillary line.

From WaPo's annotated transcript (linked above):

Trump: Maybe they'll (ICE) be able to deport her.

WaPo: Probably not, since Clinton is an American citizen.

posted by zakur at 11:30 AM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

It's worth noting that the 20% or whatever is based on 'standard deviations' of statistical movement in a perfect environment, but the HISTORICAL record is that NO candidate since the 1948 "Dewey Beats Truman" polling screwup who has been this far behind for this long with 10 weeks left in the campaign has EVER come from behind to win. That's ZERO percent. Also, historically, we haven't had a 'landslide blowout' since 1984. And there is a lot of talk about this being a 'historically different' campaign year, with both candidate's 'negatives' and 'the twitter factor' etc., but if the courts neutralize enough of the vote suppression efforts (and remember that most of the places where they haven't been stopped are smaller, 'already red' states, so it looks like they have), the historically extreme fundraising imbalance (although a LOT of money NOT going to Trump is going to downballot Republicans so that could effect the Senate) and the Democratic Party GOTV effort is stronger than usual, it seems like a slam dunk. Of course, remember that last factor, the GOTV, which requires a lot of work, even more than money ... after all, you can't slam dunk until you have at least gotten yourself under the basket.
Ah, sports analogies... maybe I could apply for a job with Nate Silver
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:30 AM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

New branding, anyways.

No, I think it is more than new branding, in the same way that I think Gamergate is a new development, and not simply a bunch of old misogynists under a new name. I think this is a younger group, fanned by Milo and Breitbart, that treats hatred gleefully, as a sort of youth movement, and is both emboldened by Trump and savvy enough to weaponize social media, in the same way Gamergate weaponized it against women.
posted by maxsparber at 11:32 AM on September 1, 2016 [25 favorites]

Trump: Maybe they'll (ICE) be able to deport her.
WaPo: Probably not, since Clinton is an American citizen.

Not so fast! She's yet to pass her ideological certification test.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:33 AM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Donald Trump has a total of one field office open in Florida. One.

Apparently he has a bigger GOTV effort in illegal Israeli settlements in Palestine than he does in several states, including Florida.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Are there any good sites, similar to 538, for senate and house races across the country?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:41 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Not so fast! She's yet to pass her ideological certification test.

Wait wait wait wait wait.

You mean we can deport all the bigots, racists and homophobes to Haterstan and let the rest of us live in peace?

I'd almost vote for Trump for that. Almost.
posted by Talez at 11:41 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is there any good site, similar to 538, for senate and house races across the country?

I look at Larry Sabato for that sometimes.
posted by OmieWise at 11:47 AM on September 1, 2016

You mean we can deport all the bigots, racists and homophobes to Haterstan and let the rest of us live in peace?
No, Trump would deport us all to a better country and rename the U.S.ofA. Haterstan. Which would be more hassle, but pretty much the same result.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:47 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

palindromic: No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.' I think a great lesson for any kid. But then he followed up with: 'Don't. Trust. Anyone. Ever.' And, you know, he'd follow it up two seconds later with, 'So, do you trust me?' I'd say, 'Of course, you're my dad.' He'd say, 'What did I just—' You know, he thought I was a total failure. He goes, 'My son's a loser, I guess.'

This is also something that his supporters should be hearing. Don't. Trust. Donny. Ever. So, do you trust him? Of course! His followers are losers, I guess.

kirkaracha: Bamboozled! What Made Everyone Think Trump Was Changing on Immigration?:

Because that's what a rational candidate for POTUS would do, pivot from a more extreme stance in the primaries to something trending towards centrist in the general election. And because he was starting to do and say things that supported this idea of a pivot, there was hope for his campaign.

Instead Donnie stayed true to Donny.

Don't. Trust. Donnie. Ever.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on September 1, 2016 [21 favorites]

538's articles (or at least the headlines) might be clickbaity, but he's always been very open about how the forecasts are calculated. To imply that PEC - by far the biggest outlier - is the most accurate because it's not-for-profit is just silly.

No, he hasn't been "very open" about how the forecasts are calculated. If he were, we could all do the calculations. We can't, because his models are a black box. He describes in general terms what goes into each of them. PEC has all of their code online for anybody too look at. 538 does not.

The argument that media organizations have a need to generate revenue through clicks / ads and therefore have a vested interest in making the campaign appear closer than it really is is not "silly." It's completely obvious if you read any of the headlines, including at 538. Look back at 2012. The race was never close except, briefly, after the first debate. PEC had it all along. Same as 2008. He's the most accurate. You can disagree with the reasons he might be the most accurate if you like. For me, I think it's embarrassing that Silver is going to such great lengths to make people nervous.
posted by one_bean at 11:54 AM on September 1, 2016 [22 favorites]

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

I imagine with the 24 hour news cycle plus nearly instant communication, it feels very different now then it did ten or twenty years ago.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:57 AM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

On Immigration, Trump Chose His Base Over Electability:

Donald Trump faced a choice Wednesday night between disappointing the anti-immigrant base that carried him through the Republican primary or the moderates he needs to sway to win the election. He chose to disappoint the moderates.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:59 AM on September 1, 2016

Parting shot from Jacob Monty, former Trump Hispanic adviser h/t Ari Melber

Wow former Trump Hispanic adviser Jacob Monty, who resigned, says it's now clear Trump "doesn't want to win," campaign just a "media play."

posted by ZeusHumms at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

The internet has just amplified everything.

I live a very sheltered life. I'm white. I live in a liberal, diverse city, liberal friends, liberal (socially, at least) family on all sides, liberal co-workers, I'm basically soaking in Blue at all times. And while I'm a woman, I'm over 40, married and have a child, so pretty much invisible at this point. If I never went on the internet, I'd have no idea the degree of hatred that is out there.

But by that same token, I have been on the internet for a long time. 20 years at this point. Social media (and its unholy alliance with news media and "content creators") really changed everything about my internet experience. And I don't even use social media! It's just in the water now, permeating everything. It follows you home, it comes right in your own front door, it hangs out on every street corner, it's everywhere.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:11 PM on September 1, 2016 [32 favorites]

the HISTORICAL record is that NO candidate since the 1948 "Dewey Beats Truman" polling screwup who has been this far behind for this long with 10 weeks left in the campaign has EVER come from behind to win. That's ZERO percent.

Not to pick on you, oneswellfoop, but I feel like we see a lot of this general kind of thing from the pundit class (hasn't happened since 19xx!!!), and I'm not convinced it's really all that meaningful.

I mean, certainly my first reaction is "wow, that's almost 70 years of precedent--it's gotta be important!" And then I feel better.

But here's the thing: there have only been 16 presidential elections in that time period, a not-insignificant percentage of which do not fit the "this far behind for this long with 10 weeks left in the campaign" description.

That leaves a very, very small sample size.

Given that--and that this year has seen a whole raft of unprecedented, outlier-y shit go down--I'm not really feeling all that complacent.
posted by dersins at 12:12 PM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

what exactly has been unprecedented and outliery? I keep seeing "unprecedented" but it's mostly about feelings.
posted by zutalors! at 12:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

>Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

I'm going to say yes it does. I think the alt-right is a new group of antisemites, and they are public and vicious in a way I have not seen in my life. Everybody I know who is publicly Jewish online right now runs the real risk of being made a target for explicitly and sadistically antisemitic harassment, and I have never seen that before.

Yes, it's been around before. But this is new and it is real, and should not be underestimated.

This strikes me as another iteration of the continuity vs. change opposition that comes up so frequently in historiography.

Consider, say, the Enlightenment. On the one hand, you can look through a change lens and discuss the rediscovery of classical texts, advances in architecture and cultural evolution, etc., and on the other hand, you can pay attention to the ways in which trends that have been identified as "enlightenment" had direct precursors from earlier times.

So yes. We can say that nothing is new -- that Trumpism is merely surfacing some of the ongoing themes of exclusion, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism and so on that have been extant since the beginning of Euro-American civilization 500 years ago. And simultaneously, we can identify ways in which these phenomena are significantly new or different and talk about how and why and when changes have occurred -- for example, analyzing the effects of hyper-fast global communications, demographic tipping points, reactions to secularism....

I think we have to do both.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:19 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

A little sunshine for everyone: John Lewis Crowd Surfs on Colbert.
posted by palindromic at 12:20 PM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

> what exactly has been unprecedented and outliery? I keep seeing "unprecedented" but it's mostly about feelings.

Yeah, this. If you strip away all the noise (and there's a LOT of it, I'll grant that), it's a standard Republican Racist coalition with very low (single-digit in some cases) black and Hispanic support and rapidly shrinking female support. The test is whether boosting racist white male turnout can compensate for that, and so far, all indications are that it isn't a winning proposition.

I know I could be eating my words come November, but for now, at least, the only unprecedented aspect is Trump's Razor. I couldn't have imagined such a self-sabotaging campaign.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:21 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

what exactly has been unprecedented and outliery? I keep seeing "unprecedented" but it's mostly about feelings.

Well, to start with, a reality TV star and complete political novice managed to secure the presidential nomination of a major party while alienating the entire party establishment (many of whom have cravenly chosen to support him anyway).

So that's a thing.
posted by dersins at 12:21 PM on September 1, 2016 [18 favorites]

Guardian: Trump pledges to promote American 'patriotism' in schools as president

"The Republican nominee said he would work with veterans’ group to ‘teach respect’ for the flag and pledge of allegiance after anti-immigration speech." Am skimming article to see if he mentions respect for students, teachers, parents, principals, school staff, etc...
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:21 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

A Mexican friend shared this throwdown from Vicente Fox on facebook: Señor Trump, usted no es bienvenido en México
posted by maggiemaggie at 12:22 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

D'jever notice on the football games they'll announce so-and-so hasn't been intercepted in nearly fifty-sevenOMG! Interception!!!

So, yeah, feelings. Nothing more than . . feelings.
Trying to forget myyyyyyyy
Feelings of Truuuuuuuuuuuuump

[sorry]
posted by petebest at 12:22 PM on September 1, 2016

No, I think it is more than new branding, in the same way that I think Gamergate is a new development, and not simply a bunch of old misogynists under a new name. I think this is a younger group, fanned by Milo and Breitbart, that treats hatred gleefully, as a sort of youth movement, and is both emboldened by Trump and savvy enough to weaponize social media, in the same way Gamergate weaponized it against women.

You're talking about the leaders of the movement -- I'm talking about the followers. Just as the "Tea Party" label meant one thing when it was cooked up by a bunch of libertarian-leaning Republicans but became another thing when it was co-opted by traditional GOP power-brokers for the purposes of branding, I believe the alt-right label is quickly outgrowing 4chan/meme culture as it's leaders have sought to increase their political power. To wit:

“Natural Conservatives”: The next constituency of the alt-right is described as “mostly white, mostly male middle-American radicals, who are unapologetically embracing a new identity politics that prioritizes the interests of their own demographic.” They are said to have “a preference for homogeneity over diversity, for stability over change, and for hierarchy and order over radical egalitarianism,” with their chief concern being “the preservation of their own tribe and its culture.”

In other words—racists? No, insists Breitbart—because they “eschew…bigotry on a personal level.” (Yiannopoulos and Bokhari seem to place a lot of weight on the fact that “Jewish gays and mixed-race Breitbart reporters” like themselves get invited to alt-right dinner parties.) But the “natural conservatives” are “frightened by the prospect of demographic displacement represented by immigration.” And “many of them instinctively feel that once large enough and ethnically distinct enough groups are brought together, they will inevitably come to blows.”

This makes the “natural conservatives” natural allies with the theorists of racist pseudo-science:
The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race. The alt-right believe that some degree of separation between peoples is necessary for a culture to be preserved.

In other words, they’re racists.

The same Breitbart piece takes great care to point out how young the alt-right movement is, but when you look at the way they are describing this "natural conservatives" segment of their movement, you can't tell me that's not a pitch designed to appeal to older aggrieved white guys who wouldn't know a dank meme if it were spray-painted on their rascal scooter. They're not in it "for the lulz" as far as I can tell.

Now, just because Milo and friends are describing their movement this way doesn't mean that any of the people in their target demographic think of themselves as part of the alt-right, but they probably thought of themselves as Tea Partiers before, but now this shiny new Trumpism thing has come along where they can believe the same things, with a little less focus on small government and a lot more focus on the bigotry, and I think it holds currency with them in a way the Tea Party doesn't anymore. It remains to be seen whether alt-right will catch on as a label for the Trump-ist wing of the GOP, but that looks where things are heading right now with people like Bannon and Milo involved.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:22 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Here's a good trivia question: Who was the most recent major party nominee who did not previously hold a title of Senator, Governor, Representative, Vice President, or General?
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

TPM has an incredible timeline of the last 10 days leading up to Trump's "pivot" speech.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

I guess Woodrow Wilson
posted by thelonius at 12:26 PM on September 1, 2016

William Jennings Bryan?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:27 PM on September 1, 2016

what exactly has been unprecedented and outliery? I keep seeing "unprecedented" but it's mostly about feelings.

Well, to start with, a reality TV star and complete political novice managed to secure the presidential nomination of a major party while alienating the entire party establishment (many of whom have cravenly chosen to support him anyway).

So that's a thing.

Well, the frontrunner of each major party won their party's nomination. There were no contested conventions. Both candidates have party support.

One thing that's a bit of an outlier is that no outgoing President in recent history has campaigned as actively for their possible successor.

Also an outlier that we have our first female major party nominee in history.

But the only outlier we seem to ever focus on is the whole Trump thing, which is quickly losing steam, as has been predicted.
posted by zutalors! at 12:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Mexican Prez Won't Back Down: I Was ‘Clear’ With Trump We'd Never Fund Wall:

Soon after Donald Trump crowed on Twitter on Thursday morning that “Mexico will pay for the wall,” embattled Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto published an op-ed saying he was “clear” with Trump that his country would do no such thing.

posted by kirkaracha at 12:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

It also should not be necessary to point out that John Lewis is the greatest living American and that the competition is not even close.

Approved.
posted by petebest at 12:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Who was the most recent major party nominee who did not previously hold a title of Senator, Governor, Representative, Vice President, or General?

Wendell Willkie, 1940.
posted by Etrigan at 12:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I guess Woodrow Wilson

Wilson was governor of New Jersey.
posted by dersins at 12:29 PM on September 1, 2016

Here's a good trivia question: Who was the most recent major party nominee who did not previously hold a title of Senator, Governor, Representative, Vice President, or General?

Donald Trump, 2016. :)
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [20 favorites]

Wendell Willkie, 1940. Ding!

You'll also find him listed under the question: Along with Herbert Hoover and "Alf" Landon, which other man defeated by FDR had a name that sounds like a comic book character's secret identity?
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

ok but tivalasvegas is technically correct
posted by zutalors! at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

I posted the results of an extensive analysis of US crime statistics on my blog.

Although violent crime has gone way down, since the early 1990s, violent crime is up in the border states: the Canadian border states. It's way down in the Mexican border states. I explore various theories for this.

Enough effort went into this that I'm tempted to post it in MeFi projects, but it has that warning about blog posts. . .
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:34 PM on September 1, 2016 [20 favorites]

Sorry but the 0xFCAF trivia cards were printed in 2014 and the new edition isn't out yet.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:35 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

ok but tivalasvegas is technically correct

the best kind of correct!
posted by Existential Dread at 12:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [25 favorites]

In other words—racists? No, insists Breitbart—because they “eschew…bigotry on a personal level.” (Yiannopoulos and Bokhari seem to place a lot of weight on the fact that “Jewish gays and mixed-race Breitbart reporters” like themselves get invited to alt-right dinner parties.)

What Yiannopoulos and Bokhari don't realize is that they are leading a movement that will thank them heartily for their efforts as they escort them to the gallows.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:38 PM on September 1, 2016 [35 favorites]

Sorry but the 0xFCAF trivia cards were printed in 2014 and the new edition isn't out yet

I have tivalasvegas' expansion pack
posted by zutalors! at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

> Sorry but the 0xFCAF trivia cards were printed in 2014 and the new edition isn't out yet.

I was going to say "Moops!" but I fear that very few people would get it. And now I suddenly feel old.

> ok but tivalasvegas is technically correct

You are required by internet law to add the phrase "Which is the best kind of correct".
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

I was going to say "Moops!" but I fear that very few people would get it. And now I suddenly feel old.

My wife's freshman undergrad students make Seinfeld jokes all the time. You can stream it now. Seinfeld and chill?
posted by dis_integration at 12:46 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

via Jami Attenberg's Twitter:

Like sometimes I think about what exact medication Ivanka must take to sleep at night and how I can get my hands on it.

posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:49 PM on September 1, 2016 [21 favorites]

Well, here's something downballot Democrats won't be thrilled about: Most Clinton voters say they'll split their ticket". A full third say they're "very likely" to split. Obviously there are a lot of races on a ballot and voting for your Republican cousin for dog-catcher or whatever isn't going to cause the end of the republic, but another 4-8 years of divided government where nothing gets through Congress would not be great.
posted by Copronymus at 12:54 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Penn Jillette's 'Trump' Card Trick
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:56 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

maybe focusing on fundraising during the Great Pivot Saga wasn't a bad plan after all
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:58 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Am I wrong to think that maybe the ticket-splitting thing is more a result of "Clinton voters" suddenly including a lot of moderate independents and Republicans, meaning many of them were never likely to vote for Democrats for down-ballot races anyway? Hillary's lead in the polls isn't just coming from the base, it's probably coming from some GOP-leaners who are holding their nose, and I'd expect them to split the ticket.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:58 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

Plus, I think there's a bit of a stigma attached to party-line voting, like you're just not keeping your mind open or something. I haven't looked into this at all, but I wouldn't be shocked if there's a "Bradley effect" thing going on where people say they're more likely to split the ticket than they actually are.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:00 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

right. "I'm an INDEPDENDENT, unlike those sheep who vote for the party that consistently represents their values!"
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [30 favorites]

Like sometimes I think about what exact medication Ivanka must take to sleep at night and how I can get my hands on it.

I see sentiments like this often. Is there compelling evidence to believe Ivanka isn't equally as monstrous as the father she is actively campaigning for? (I know nothing about her personally, having never watched The Apprentice.) Why do we give her the benefit of the doubt that we (rightfully) are unwilling to extend to her brothers?
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Plus, I think there's a bit of a stigma attached to party-line voting,

Yeah,I have to confess that I straight-ticket vote 99.9% of the time but I still don't like pushing the button for a straight ticket (we have that on our machines) because it makes me feel like a sheeple. I manually tick every box, even though it's the exact same result as just doing the one straight ticket vote.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [22 favorites]

I think I voted for Arlen Specter once when he was still nominally a Republican, but yeah, I do the same thing. I'd outlaw the straight-ticket button if I were in charge.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:08 PM on September 1, 2016

@EllenLWeintraub: The @FEC has no opinion on the existence of God. But if she wants to run for U.S. President, she has to fill out her forms like anyone else.

BTW Weintraub is one of the FEC's Commissioners.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:08 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'd outlaw the straight-ticket button if I were in charge.

Automatic straight-ticket voting is good for people who have less time to vote (e.g., people who are taking time off of their hourly-wage job to vote, or people who are paying for childcare by the hour) and does not appreciably affect whether people vote straight tickets.
posted by Etrigan at 1:11 PM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

I manually tick every box, even though it's the exact same result as just doing the one straight ticket vote.

Because Michigan's Attorney General, Bill Schuette, keeps fighting to remove straight-ticket voting, this year I plan on using it.

Who was fighting to keep straight-ticket voting? FTA:

A lawsuit filed in the wake of Michigan's new law led to a federal judge striking down the state's ban on straight ticket voting.

The lawsuit, filed in May by the A. Philip Randolph Institute, a black labor organization labor, argued the law disproportionately impacts African-Americans, who are more likely to vote a straight-party ticket.

posted by palindromic at 1:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

I can't remember the last time I thought a Republican was the better choice for anything, but if there is a candidate who is more progressive than the Democratic, I will vote for that person (if they are any good).
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Plus, I think there's a bit of a stigma attached to party-line voting, like you're just not keeping your mind open or something. I haven't looked into this at all, but I wouldn't be shocked if there's a "Bradley effect" thing going on where people say they're more likely to split the ticket than they actually are.

I know when I was younger I totally voted party-line but claimed not to.
posted by palomar at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rick Hasen: Buried Deep in the Republican Party Platform, a Slam on Latino Voting Power That’s At Odds with the Constitution

Going mostly (but not completely) unnoticed is the following statement in the Republican Party platform: “In order to preserve the principle of one person, one vote, we urge our elected representatives to ensure that citizenship, rather than mere residency, be made the basis for the apportionment of representatives among the states.”

Currently, congressional districts are apportioned based upon total population. If Republicans were able to actually follow through on this, it would mean that areas with large Latino populations, where there are more non-citizens, would lose representation compared to whiter, more Republican districts. It would shift more power in Congress to the Republicans.

But there’s a problem with this aspirational plan, something called the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides in Section 2 that “Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed.” Last time I checked, non-citizens were still “persons.” So maybe this part of the platform is an oblique call for a constitutional amendment?

posted by zombieflanders at 1:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [27 favorites]

From prize bull octorok's link:

In August, Hillary Clinton raised $62 million for her campaign, $81 million for DNC & state parties. Campaign starts Sept with $68m on hand.

That's a chunk more than Obama raised in August 2012. Imagine what she could do if she had the stamina?
posted by holgate at 1:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

I know when I was younger I totally voted party-line but claimed not to.

I'm a Tammany Democrat. I vote a straight ticket and will until I die, and probably for many years after that.
posted by maxsparber at 1:19 PM on September 1, 2016 [51 favorites]

Lived in Illinois during Blagojevich. Traumatized by it (you can probably tell from the number of times I bring up Blagojevich.) Now feel the need to do enough internet research to verify that my local Democrats aren't cartoonish villains before voting straight ticket.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:23 PM on September 1, 2016 [23 favorites]

I've voted for a republican or two over the years. The previous mayor of my city was so terrible that I voted for the republican challenger against him even though I knew that he had no chance.
posted by octothorpe at 1:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I mean in 1990 Trump said that if he ever ran for president, he would probably run as a Democrat... If he had, that wouldn't make voting for Trump okay.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm a Tammany Democrat. I vote a straight ticket and will until I die, and probably for many years after that.

I'm an Albany Democrat. My dead dogs have voted the straight party in the last 12 elections.
posted by mikelieman at 1:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

I can't remember the last time I thought a Republican was the better choice for anything

I can honestly say it happened to me once. Only once. I voted for the Republican candidate for mayor several years ago because the Dem incumbent--referred to by everyone as our Boy Mayor--got the job in the first place by being deputy mayor when the mayor died unexpectedly, was the scion of a local political family and just so at the behest of the local party establishment. Which in Pittsburgh is like, yay they are Democrats but often only because their parents and grandparents were and they like unions because their daddy was in one. The Republican candidate that year was socially liberal and economically his conservatism was of the most mild sort. He could have run as a Democrat and no one would have blinked an eye. He was actually outside my polling place after I voted and I told him that was the first time I'd ever voted for a Republican. He didn't win, but he did come respectably close given we haven't had a Republican mayor since the 30s.

When you live somewhere with an entrenched Democratic establishment, sometimes you need to check yourself before voting the straight ticket.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [19 favorites]

The previous mayor of my city was so terrible that I voted for the republican challenger against him even though I knew that he had no chance.

lol jinx
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:26 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Man, some days I miss the consistency of Mayor Corning....
posted by mikelieman at 1:27 PM on September 1, 2016

D.W. Griffith's "Birth of a Nation" had captured the imagination of the country and had capitalized on the anxiety of whites over the inclusion of African Americans into society.

President Woodrow Wilson hosted a screening of the film in the White House and worked diligently to resegregate Federal workers. He also justified the presence of the Ku Klux Klan as defenders of their way of life and was illustrative of the racial sentiment of the time.

via NBC (op-ed) via zombieflanderses link above.
posted by petebest at 1:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

I reduce the guilt over voting straight-ticket in the General Elections by ALWAYS voting in the Primaries... it just depresses me some when more times than not my choice in the Primary doesn't make it to the General. Still, it's a kind of a guilty delight to have the California Senate Race where both of the final candidates are Democrats, women AND POC.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:30 PM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

The kind of republican that I might have voted for in the past doesn't exist now. There are no moderates like Kean or Specter left in that party and they're unlikely to return.
posted by octothorpe at 1:36 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

Can you vote straight-ticket in CA still? And if so, how does it work with the top-two process?
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:37 PM on September 1, 2016

I'm probably 7-40 ridiculous things behind, but

MAYBE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DEPORT HER [real]

Like, broke my cant-evener. I thought the Jill Stein Harambe thing was going to be peak ridiculousness for this year.

I still can't decide if these writers deserve an Emmy or a pink slip... holy shit.
posted by emptythought at 1:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

I mean in 1990 Trump said that if he ever ran for president, he would probably run as a Democrat... If he had, that wouldn't make voting for Trump okay.

No. But he wouldn't have gotten the nomination, and if he even came close, it would have been by running a very different kind of campaign.
posted by OmieWise at 1:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I tend to vote straight ticket....although, a couple times, I've eschewed the Democratic ticket and voted for the Green Party candidate. Most notably, I did so in New York's 2006 Gubernatorial election - mainly because I wasn't all that impressed with Elliot Spitzer, and I realized that going into the polling station that I couldn't remember the Republican candidate's name, even after having just seen it on a flyer one block away. But the Green Party candidate was Malachy McCourt, an actor with whom I'd worked briefly in 1992 and an all-around neat guy, and even though he wasn't going to win the thought of Malachy as governor amused.

Elliot Spitzer won, of course; and then a year later, he got slammed for hitting up prostitutes and resigned. And at the time, I was very pleased to be able to smugly tell people, "hey, I didn't vote for the guy...."

that is what voting for the Green Party got me, the end.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:38 PM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

The GOP has spent the last fifty years making itself The Party of Assholes. I wouldn't vote for a Republican coroner. Anybody with little enough decency and sense as to be able to get to a general election on the Republican ticket is somebody I do not and cannot trust.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:38 PM on September 1, 2016 [31 favorites]

When you live somewhere with an entrenched Democratic establishment, sometimes you need to check yourself before voting the straight ticket.

And when you live in deep red territory, you frequently don't have Democrats to vote for at all so you have to figure out which Republican is the most moderate.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

octothorpe, soren_lorenson: I can add to the evidence for a Metafilter hivemind: I, too, voted for a Republican over Ravenstahl. I believe that's the only time I've ever voted for a non-Democrat.
posted by janewman at 1:42 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

My family's been here since the 1700s and I'm not sure I would pass.

Joke credit goes to my mom, but my families been here since arguably when there were woolly mammoths... and i think they'd probably still tell us to "go home".

"I'm pretty sure he just doesn't want us to exist", were her next words :(
posted by emptythought at 1:42 PM on September 1, 2016 [28 favorites]

Wow, Pittsburgh represent in this thread today.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:43 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ivanka Trump, like Don Draper, sleeps on a bed made of money.
posted by zutalors! at 1:44 PM on September 1, 2016

We may is well get this out there because you are going to see it soon. Politico has created another "Clinton scandal" hatchet job. I refuse to link to it but you can find it easily enough.

It starts out with the screaming headline "Bill Clinton aides used tax dollars to subsidize foundation, private email support." Of course that would be illegal. Clinton must be breaking the law! He's stealing from taxpayers!

But buried in the article is "This investigation, which is based on records obtained from the General Services Administration through the Freedom of Information Act, does not reveal anything illegal."

So from the very start, the headline is in direct contradiction with the facts in the article, but a headline "Spent hundreds of hours examining GSA documents and found nothing out of the ordinary" does not get clicks.

What this story is about is the Former Presidents Act which goes back to 1958. The act provides pensions and staff support for ex-Presidents. It is nothing new. It has been around for almost 60 years. Every ex-President over that time has had pensions and staff support as provided by the law.

The "subsidy" angle comes from the fact that some of the people being paid as Clinton staff members also are employees of the Clinton charity. Clinton has 10 staff members who receive an average of $10,000 a year while working for Clinton part time and the rest of their salaries come from their work on the charity.

This is perfectly normal. Anyone who works for a services organization is accustomed to billing different activities to different accounts. As the GSA reports show, the employees meticulously document the number of hours they work for Clinton personally and the number of hours working for the charity. There is no subsidy to the charity. They are different jobs paid by different accounts. All of the Presidents have done the same.

The next "bombshell" is that spendthrift Clinton has 10 employees on the payroll while Bush only has 4. Well it turns out that both Clinton and Bush are by law allocated $96,000 per year for personal assistants. Bush happens to give $24,000 each to four employees working for him 25% to 50% time, while Clinton gives $10,000 each to 10 employees working for him 10% to 20% of the time. But both Clinton and Bush are given the exact same $96,000 to spend as they see fit but Clinton just divvies it up among more people.

Next they go on to OMG! looking at records Clinton has gotten 16 meeelion dollars! while Bush as gotten only half! of that. What a spendthrift! If you do the difficult high-level arithmetic you will realize that in the years since 2001, Clinton has been collecting his ex-President benefits for 16 years while Bush has been collecting his ex-President benefits for only 8 years. Clinton has received twice as much as Bush! Scandalous!

This is embarrassing garbage from Politico, but if you have spent hundreds of hours poring through boring documents, you can't just let it go to waste.

This is how the "Clinton scandals" work. They just keep dumping them on you, an endless stream of garbage until you want to put your hands over you ears and scream "Please make it stop. Just make the Clintons go away."

Even in these threads we have heard supposedly well-informed people say "It must be true or else it wouldn't be newsworthy" [Fact] and "WTF Hillary" [Fact] when yet another "scandal" article comes out.

The idea is to wear you down with "Clinton fatigue" and make you surrender to the crookedness of the Clintons. Get used to it. It's not going to stop when Hillary is elected.
posted by JackFlash at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [151 favorites]

I happily voted for a GOP incumbent I knew personally to a be a decent guy over his Democratic challenger who had a reputation for being an aggro hothead, for a county-level position that had basically no policy-making power. And I'd do it again!
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

The kind of republican that I might have voted for in the past doesn't exist now. There are no moderates like Kean or Specter left in that party and they're unlikely to return.

I used to think my dad was one of those mythical moderate Republicans, but his cheerful privileged-white-guy obtuseness on social issues (he regularly repeats the story of how he listed "human race" on his census form and fought with a census guy about it) as well as his fondness of saying things in a "debate" in poor faith specifically to make me angry really took the shine off for me

I guess what I'm trying to say is even the most moderate of Republicans will inevitably do or say something that makes me not want them anywhere near public office

even my dad. sorry, dad!
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 1:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Donald Trump's Trip to Mexico Was an Embarrassment for Our Nation's Media. Newspapers, television, everything.
posted by homunculus at 1:48 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

People, no one in this crowd knows any immigrants.

Oh, I'd about guarantee that a lot of the ones from rural areas do, they just don't realize that their doctors count. In rural areas, lots of doctors are immigrants, it's sometimes the only way to get anyone in there.

Sorry to refer so far back up the thread but I do keep kind of vaguely wondering what all this anti-immigrant noise will do to medical care in this country.
posted by dilettante at 1:49 PM on September 1, 2016 [18 favorites]

Christ, will the nothingburgers never end?
posted by Artw at 1:51 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

No, doctors don't count. I mean friends, romantic partners, family, people you are close to.

I'm sure there's that one good guy who works in the deli or whatever but that doesn't count either.
posted by zutalors! at 1:51 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump's Trip to Mexico Was an Embarrassment for Our Nation's Media. Newspapers, television, everything.
posted by homunculus at 1:48 PM on September 1

Of course, it's by Charles Pierce.

SPOILER ALERT "Here's the whole speech. Judge for yourselves. I'll be back after I make sure they've fireproofed the Reichstag."
posted by Sophie1 at 1:53 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Christ, will the nothingburgers never end?

No. No, they will not ever. Get used to it. It's the Republican way.
posted by JackFlash at 1:54 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump's Trip to Mexico Was an Embarrassment for Our Nation's Media.

huh. for my money, nothing has been able to embarrass the media since they sat around with their fingers up their noses while bush/cheney marched into iraq.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:54 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

As far as straight ticket voting goes I've been thinking a lot about shame and politics, and how we take our political ideals into our public life.

I've talked here a lot about how I've volunteered for Hillary, and I'm not ashamed at all. But to people in real life I think I have only talked about it once or twice. I did pointedly say something about it on Facebook, but only once, and made sure to make the message a very upbeat "I'm volunteering and I encourage you to volunteer because it's good for Democracy!" and I tried to do it with as little partisanship as possible.

And I realized I'm far more guarded about my inner political life than any other part. I'm not ashamed of my beliefs, but the amount of agonizing I go through when even bringing up a whiff of political anything in public takes me back to my teen years when I might accidentally let slip that I had a crush on the girl I was talking to.

Now that I'm typing it feels to me like talking politics "in the open" when you're not with close friends who understand you has become - not just impolite - but taboo. Speaking too directly to my political beliefs in public outside a very particular context feels, to me, like a violation of some kind.

I don't know if other people feel that way, but based on the caginess I sense around anyone who isn't a co-volunteer (or on semi-anonymous web fora) for discussing politics makes me think I'm not alone. I'd like to be able to discuss politics with the frankness that I discuss the weather or Stranger Things but I just don't see that happening any time soon.
posted by Tevin at 1:55 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

In Texas you don't register by party, and primaries are open. I regularly vote in the republican primary to stop teahadists from taking out less crazy incumbents. In the real elections, I'm a yellow dog democrat, forall my vote matters in the sea of blue.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

My redneck brother likes to bring up his lesbian friend (who is conservative) as some sort of I'm-no-bigot card, despite being a Fox News Republican. I imagine he would do the same if he had an immigrant doctor. It would change nothing.
posted by emjaybee at 2:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Does anybody have what Trump said re: camps in his speech last night to hand? I can't find it.
posted by stolyarova at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Like, broke my cant-evener. I thought the Jill Stein Harambe thing was going to be peak ridiculousness for this year.

I still can't decide if these writers deserve an Emmy or a pink slip... holy shit.

I did not believe that the hat actually said 'Make Mexico Great Again Also.' Although it seemed to be an obvious photoshop job for a Fallon monologue, Rudolph Giuliani, in real life, wore a hat that said 'Make Mexico Great Again Also.' I had to look that picture up, yet remain incredulous.
posted by palindromic at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

This was an actual tweet from Dylan Byers today: "Hi, guys, fact that Trump hasn’t released his tax returns, which is a big problem, doesn’t negate fact that HRC hasn’t held press conference."
I'm surprised there wasn't a continuation in another tweet: "And sent emails, and has a foundation."
posted by SisterHavana at 2:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'd like to be able to discuss politics with the frankness that I discuss the weather or Stranger Things but I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Politics has always been a sensitive subject, like sex and religion (and very culturally bound up with sex and religion.)

Just like you can talk about your sex life pretty freely with people of your same gender, orientation, and cultural norms, and you can talk religion pretty freely with your co-religionists, you can talk politics pretty freely with those who share your political views.

But discussing any of the above at cocktail parties is rude because of the potential for strong disagreements and hurt feelings. I think it's always been that way and always will be, though maybe our current polarization makes people even more shocked when they do find out someone disagrees with them?

I definitely feel like I'm being rude when I discuss politics with people in real life or on Facebook (since I have Facebook friends of mixed political persuasions) but I do it anyone, 'cause I guess I'm rude like that. I just word it very carefully to avoid hurting people's feelings if possible.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:05 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Politico has created another "Clinton scandal" hatchet job.

[deafening rattle of deportation cattle cars]
Journalist: BUT AREN'T YOU GLAD I BROUGHT UP QUESTIONS ABOUT BILL CLINTON'S CHARITY WORK?
[wailing cries of immigrants being loaded]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:05 PM on September 1, 2016 [46 favorites]

Only one is not for profit, has no ads, and therefore has no need to pull in daily clicks - Princeton Election Consortium. 95% Dem.

It's down to 94% Dem now. WE ARE DOOMED. ALL IS LOST.
posted by Justinian at 2:10 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

tbh if there were a 6% chance of GIANT METEOR 2016 people would be upset

why aren't they upset

the TRUMP METEOR is coming and it's the best, biggest meteor, believe me
posted by stolyarova at 2:12 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

And I realized I'm far more guarded about my inner political life than any other part. I'm not ashamed of my beliefs, but the amount of agonizing I go through when even bringing up a whiff of political anything in public takes me back to my teen years when I might accidentally let slip that I had a crush on the girl I was talking to.

Yeah, this is tough. There are times when the prospect of talking in detail about politics with someone or in a group setting is all downside with very little upside -- the one time a couple of months ago a conversation with my boss deviated toward him defending Trump and criticizing Hillary was not at all enjoyable. At the same time, I don't hide my beliefs or affiliation as much as I used to. For one thing, "liberal" isn't the dirty word it was in the 80s and 90s. More importantly, though, I guess I'm sort of okay if revealing my politics puts a ceiling on my relationships with certain people, be they family, friends, coworkers, or random acquaintances.

I'm friends with plenty of former Bush, McCain, and Romney voters, but not the closest of friends as it turns out, and I doubt that's coincidental -- birds of a feather and all that. Meanwhile, I can't think of a single person in my circle of people I'd call a friend who is voting for Trump, and if anyone was, I have to say it would cause me to re-evaluate that relationship. It's not the party label, but the brand of know-nothing-ism and bigotry that Trump represents isn't something I want to be associated with.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:16 PM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm way behind on this thread, but urgently need to post that I must have a Vagenda of Manocide to-do list notepad that I can pay money for and own IMMEDIATELY. Is this a thing? Someone tell me when this is a thing.
posted by medusa at 2:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

"best, biggest meteor, believe me"

"believe me," is also something You Know Who was saying a gazillion times during last night's speech.
So, who is gonna pay for that meteor?
posted by Namlit at 2:18 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I did not believe that the hat actually said 'Make Mexico Great Again Also.' Although it seemed to be an obvious photoshop job for a Fallon monologue, Rudolph Giuliani, in real life, wore a hat that said 'Make Mexico Great Again Also.' I had to look that picture up, yet remain incredulous.

I'm still wonderng if anyone has told Frank from 30 Rock that Giuliani stole his new hat.
posted by maryr at 2:20 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm way behind on this thread, but urgently need to post that I must have a Vagenda of Manocide to-do list notepad that I can pay money for and own IMMEDIATELY. Is this a thing? Someone tell me when this is a thing.

GetBullish has pens that I am trying reeeeallllly hard to resist
posted by sunset in snow country at 2:21 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

"And sent emails, and has a foundation."
Trump has a Foundation which he has personally given about 1/100th as much to as the Clintons have done to theirs. (figure from memory... look it up)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:22 PM on September 1, 2016

Trump Jr. pushes back on idea his dad 'choked' during Mexico meeting

Part that struck me was

Kaine appeared on multiple networks Thursday morning (Fox News Channel excluded)

Umm. Good to know?

Meanwhile, AFAICT Junior only talked to Fox, which goes unremarked.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:24 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Being born in Mississippi with a mama who always talked fondly of Jewish people (and reading All The Books) made anti-semitism weird for me. As a nerdy child, I couldn't understand how you knew who to hit on the playground if they weren't a different color.
posted by thebrokedown at 2:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

"The Republican nominee said he would work with veterans’ group to ‘teach respect’ for the flag and pledge of allegiance after anti-immigration speech."

After his anti immigration speech? Or is that a proposal to tack an anti immigration speech on the front of the pledge of allegiance? [half-serious question]
posted by vbfg at 2:26 PM on September 1, 2016

After his anti immigration speech?

At the American Legion this morning.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:29 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, who is gonna pay for that meteor?

The Martians, presumably. Fuckin' aliens.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

From the Charles Pierce article above, Journalism is flummoxing itself because it is incapable of confronting what it must confront.

Not the wording I'd use, but yeah. I'm listening for the snap. Nothing yet.
posted by petebest at 2:38 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sometimes I doubt Trump's commitment to Sparkle Motion.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump's Trip to Mexico Was an Embarrassment for Our Nation's Media. Newspapers, television, everything.

I kind of miss Gawker.
posted by nicodine at 2:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yeah, the whole thing about not talking about politics is really tough for me.

Growing up in India, we talked politics all the time. It was the main discussion at almost every dinner party and we had people from all ends of the political spectrum. Things got argumentative. But there was generally a consensus that we would argue like that and then go back to cracking jokes over dinner. It did not feel as polarized as it does here. Part of it may have been that I was part of the most privileged part of society over there, so very little could personally affect me. It was all mostly theoretical. Still, I thought less of people who supported the BJP, particularly after what happened during the Gujarat riots.

I'm not sure that I really understand why it felt different. Some of our family friends there had views that I truly consider reprehensible (one good family friend, a woman, said that upper class women were to blame for the rape of the lower class women because they walked around in such revealing clothes that lower class men were so titillated that they took it out on their wives). I could call that out, tell them they were wrong, and still not destroy our relationship.

It's not a trick that I understand how to do here. Perhaps we develop a weird sort of immunity to the reprehensible viewpoints we grow up with? Sometimes when I imagine an older Trump voter, I try to think about my grandfather. He was a wonderful man, but also definitely bigoted against Muslims. He sometimes called black people Negros. I am not sure, but I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't have been keen on LGBT rights, though I think he had a live and let live attitude which would have let him come to terms with it ultimately. I can trace the path of his life story to understand how he comes to have those views, and so he still appears a whole, though flawed, person to me.

Over here, the prejudices are stranger (to me). Harder to understand how people came to have these views.
posted by peacheater at 2:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

Something I found during the Brexit campaign, which also had plenty of outright lies, fabricated scandals and consistent fraud by the participants, is that if you can get someone enthusiastically supporting the worst liars, fibbers and fraudsters to enter into a dialogue, it goes something like this.

Me: Why are you supporting those people?
They; Because (recites list of blatant rubbish)
Me: But none of that's true
They: Yes it is!
Me: Well, here's the thing (recites list of true things countering first list), and if you don't believe me, look it up.
They: Well, it doesn't matter/
Me: Why not?
They: Because the other side are worse.
Me: They're not, because...
They: Oh, shut up, that doesn't matter
Me: Why not?
They: They're all liars, but my side is right anyway.

And so it goes. It doesn't matter to them. One of the worst things about being a journalist is that most readers don't care whether you're right, they care whether you agree with them. And if you don't, they don't read your stuff.

There is no market in changing people's minds, you have to give them something else they want while you're doing it. And tighteous indignation while bolstering prejudice (Europe is taking our money and our freedom, and we're better off out!) is really good at that. You have to have a really top-notch feelgood story to pitch in return, but it's rarely a fair fight.
posted by Devonian at 2:42 PM on September 1, 2016 [31 favorites]

I kind of miss Gawker.

ashley feinberg is now doin her thing just as wonderfully as usual over at deadspin's the concourse (along with hamno and some other gawker folks)
posted by burgerrr at 2:44 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

The mention of Gawker rebounds me if the other theory I have for why the media is reporting things so badly.

I think the news agencies have taken the demise of Gawker to heart, and are afraid that if they do any reall reporting on Trump, that the Right will find an excuse to try to sue them out of existence, and have the deep pockets to succeed. So they do mealy-mouthed "on the other hand" reporting and attacks on Clinton, in the hope that after Trump takes power he'll allow them to survive
posted by happyroach at 2:51 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Eh. I think it's just the media being the media. They are lazy.
posted by Justinian at 2:55 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

LIVE: Vice President Joe Biden campaigning for Hillary Clinton in Parma, OH
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:59 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

There is no market in changing people's minds

SO TRUE.
posted by petebest at 2:59 PM on September 1, 2016

I designed a quick, lazy 3x4 Vagenda of Manocide template (eps here) for anybody inclined to upload it to Vistaprint and order their own. Happy to make other sizes.
posted by stolyarova at 3:00 PM on September 1, 2016 [20 favorites]

Thanks, stolyarova!
posted by agregoli at 3:03 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Daily 202: Trump triples down on a losing immigration position in Phoenix:

Republicans facing four more years in the wilderness will long recall the raucous rally in Phoenix as a low point of the Trump campaign, perhaps even as the moment that he definitively extinguished his hopes of becoming president.

That feeling will be particularly pronounced because it came at the end of a whirlwind day that might otherwise have been remembered as a triumph.

posted by kirkaracha at 3:08 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

More than 6 million immigrants could be deported under latest Trump plan:

Donald Trump’s latest deportation priorities could target more than 6 million individuals for immediate removal, according to a Washington Post analysis.

posted by kirkaracha at 3:09 PM on September 1, 2016

fwiw, I tried to muscle through the Trump speech but didn't hear anything about detention camps. If anyone has that cite, it would be of interest.

I did hear the String Her Up guy. Not violent at all. (Well, not immigrant violent, apparently.) Also heard Trump and his 10,000 watt PA and magic word sticks bludgeon the audience into tired submission. Wall! (Yaaay) Border patrol! (-aaayy) Supreme Court! (-eehh) Emails! (-rrrrrr) Vets! (Hhuurrr) It's a mess! A mess! (-. . . ? Huu) Gotta straighten out or it's a disaster! (-nnggh)
posted by petebest at 3:09 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

fwiw, I tried to muscle through the Trump speech but didn't hear anything about detention camps. If anyone has that cite, it would be of interest.

I'm not the OP but there's nowhere near enough jail space for the amount of people Trump is talking about rounding up and deporting while Sheriff Joe has his head so far up Trump's ass that he can see what Trump had for lunch.

The educated guess is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by Talez at 3:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

LIVE: Vice President Joe Biden campaigning for Hillary Clinton in Parma, OH

I've heard both NPR and my mother tell me today that Hillary has disappeared from her own campaign. Is this a thing?
posted by xyzzy at 3:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Uh she gave a speech yesterday so no?
posted by stolyarova at 3:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

N.B. My assumption on the not enough space is that the Supreme Court stops Trump in his tracks and says "no, due process does still exist. It's one of the amendments".
posted by Talez at 3:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Uh she gave a speech yesterday so no?

But she hasn't held a press conference in ages! She's practically a recluse! [sarcasm]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?
Oh, yeah. Or, as others have said, if not "leagues worse," then certainly more willing to speak itself aloud.

Anecdotally, I blame two things: the persistent failure, particularly but not exclusively on the left, to adequately police the moment at which anti-Zionism (which I share) shades into anti-Semitism. There's a whole lot of people emboldened to say shitty things under the cover of criticizing the criminal behavior of the Israeli state, and I feel like that, in turn, gave everyone else who'd harbored Jew-hate the license to speak up a little louder.

And, weirdly, the other thing that felt like a turning point in my lifetime was South Park. It doesn't matter if you put those sentiments in the mouth of a character who's supposed to be reprehensible — they still get spoken, and to that extent normalized. (This is something I've noticed in a few episodes of Sunny in Philadelphia, too.) Scriptwriters get to have their edgelordy cake and eat it too.

I don't know what the answer is, in either case. I don't think there's much of anything off-limits in comedy, and I don't think comedy profits in any event by pretending (some) people don't believe the things they so obviously do. All I know is that whenever I see anti-Semitism of the rare-pepe sort being expressed, I hear it in the voice of the fat kid from South Park. And, well, Israel...if I had any good ideas at all about that shaming situation, I'd share them.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [25 favorites]

I've heard both NPR and my mother tell me today that Hillary has disappeared from her own campaign. Is this a thing?

Yeah it's a thing. By thing I assume you mean another bullshit lie to pin on Clinton. "She didn't go to Louisiana," "She didn't go to Mexico," "She doesn't give press conferences"..
posted by zutalors! at 3:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

> "liberal" isn't the dirty word it was in the 80s and 90s

counterpoint: Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed! published in 2004

It was during Bush II's reign that my mom asked me to start a line of scarlet-L liberal wear. I let her down :-(
posted by morganw at 3:19 PM on September 1, 2016

It's erasure. She's RIGHT THERE, they just don't want to see her - so they don't.
posted by stolyarova at 3:20 PM on September 1, 2016 [25 favorites]

Trump is usually so loud and obvious that I don't try to dissect his words carefully. But yesterday's reference to assimilation and picking immigrants in part based on how well they will assimilate is a dog whistle to the idea that white Christian immigrants are the 'desirable' kind of immigrants.
posted by puddledork at 3:20 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think there were two mentions of camps, one implicit ("we'll round them up then try to get them out of the country as quickly as possible") and one explicit of 'safe areas' in other countries that the US would run but make other countries pay for. It wasn't clear who those were going to be used for, presumably pre-'intense vetting, ideologically certified' immigrants who hadn't actually done anything wrong or broken any rules, but your guess is as good as mine. (I have a pretty good guess, btw.)

But I could be wrong on both; my cpu was saturated trying to parse the stuff as it poured in, so the deeper analytical layers were being booted off the task list. 1201 alarm...
posted by Devonian at 3:20 PM on September 1, 2016

Erasure? Whoops, I actually meant:

BREAKING NEWS: HILLARY CLINTON DRINKS ENSURE - OSTEOPOROSIS SCARE? ARE HER BONES STRONG ENOUGH TO BE PRESIDENT?
posted by stolyarova at 3:21 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

"liberal" isn't the dirty word it was in the 80s and 90s

Right, because they don't call us "liberals," they calls us "cucks" and "libtards."

Because the discourse has gotten more classy, you see.
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:22 PM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

I wish everyone would stop saying HOW It--wall, deportation, whatever--would happen and just say "This is ridiculous. This is never going to happen, Sillies." Why are we debating the practicalities of ridiculousness?
posted by thebrokedown at 3:23 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I don't know what the answer is, in either case.

Firmly and politely call it out any time you see it. If the response is an apology, let it go. Since it won't be, engage as much or as little as you see fit.

Then take some solace in the fact that "political affiliation" is NOT a protected class. If someone posts racist comments on facebook or whatever is a perfectly acceptable reason not to hire someone.

It's still a shrinking portion of society so they'll at least learn to keep it to themselves if they want to engage with other people and/or keep their jobs.
posted by VTX at 3:26 PM on September 1, 2016

I don't know. It could happen. The human and monetary costs would be enormous, but sure, you could do it. I would rather they take it seriously and actually start ask nitty-gritty questions to actually expose how ridiculous of an idea this is. Maybe that's expecting too much of the American public though.
posted by peacheater at 3:26 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I was listening in the car, so I have no idea who was talking, but someone on MSNBCs Meet The Press daily just outright said that while trump was in Mexico getting presidential optics, Hillary was nowhere to be seen yesterday, and no one corrected her.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Thank goodness you guys are filtering all this bullshit for me, because I'm about to have a conniption fit in my tub reading just this.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

The idea is to wear you down with "Clinton fatigue" and make you surrender to the crookedness of the Clintons. Get used to it. It's not going to stop when Hillary is elected.
posted by JackFlash at 1:45 PM on September 1 [48 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

What I would give to see concerted pushback on this. You need ten words for a sound bite, and you can't refute bullshit of this caliber in ten words unless you can refer to a Known Thing, and that Known Thing needs to be how Clinton coverage works.

Where is our Karl Rove
posted by schadenfrau at 3:29 PM on September 1, 2016

Hillary spoke to a veteran's group yesterday, yeah?
posted by puddledork at 3:29 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump promises 'quite a bit of softening' on immigration:

“You’re going to be asked this, so I might as well ask it,” Ingraham said to Trump during a radio interview. “The line last week [was] you were softening on immigration, then you come out with a very specific, very pro-enforcement plan last night. Where’s the softening?”

Passing on the chance to disavow the prior “softening” narrative, Trump insisted instead, "Oh, there’s softening. Look, we do it in a very humane way, and we’re going to see with the people that are in the country. Obviously I want to get the gang members out, the drug peddlers out, I want to get the drug dealers out. We’ve got a lot of people in this country that you can’t have, and those people we’ll get out."

This is today, if you're scoring at home. Does Obamacare cover whiplash from all the softening/hardening switchbacks?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:29 PM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

Are we not doing "phrasing" any more?
posted by dersins at 3:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Ten points for whoever it was that guessed this.

Jeet Heer: Really looks like Kellyanne Conway is on the way out.

posted by stolyarova at 3:32 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Trump just hired the (former, as of this week) president of Citizens United as a deputy campaign manager.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:33 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

also uggghhhh David Bossie
posted by stolyarova at 3:33 PM on September 1, 2016

Robert Costa: Trump reveals in phone call w/ @washingtonpost that he has hired DAVID BOSSIE as deputy campaign manager
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on September 1, 2016

jinx!
posted by stolyarova at 3:33 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Leaked Script Shows What Advisers Want Donald Trump to Say at Black Church

Instead of speaking to the congregation at Great Faith Ministries International, Mr. Trump will be interviewed by its pastor in a session that will be closed to the public and news media, with questions submitted in advance. And instead of letting Mr. Trump be his freewheeling self, his campaign has prepared lengthy answers for the submitted questions, consulting black Republicans to make sure he says the right things.

I'm shocked. Shocked. This is so shocking.
posted by Talez at 3:34 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Longer career lifespan: Trump surrogate or Spinal Tap drummer?
posted by tonycpsu at 3:35 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

Drug peddlars? Has anyone peddled drugs since Tom Lehrer? I did once get accosted late at night in East London by a young man on a pushbike offering pharmaceutical services, so I guess it's still a thing.

It doesn't matter to anyone except me, but I would like to know how many 'gang members' and drug dealers are non-citizens, compared to those who don't bother Trump because they've got a birth certificate. (* Contiguous US only).
posted by Devonian at 3:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

his campaign has prepared lengthy answers for the submitted questions, consulting black Republicans to make sure he says the right things.

"Shiiiiit, maaaaan. That honky muf' be messin' mah old lady... got to be runnin' cold upside down his head, you know?"
posted by kirkaracha at 3:38 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Longer career lifespan: Trump surrogate or Spinal Tap drummer?

These aren't just surrogates--this is his actual campaign management structure.

More layering than Seattle in the 90's.
posted by dersins at 3:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Kellyanne is already on the way out? I mean, I'd be tempted to give her props except for the fact that I'm fairly certain that Trump is dumping her and she isn't dumping him. How many campaign managers can one campaign go through before more independents and rational Republicans dump Trump?
posted by xyzzy at 3:39 PM on September 1, 2016

Standard reality show mechanics.
posted by stolyarova at 3:40 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

From that Leaked Script link:

Mr. Trump is well known for veering from prepared remarks or throwing them away entirely. That could happen on Saturday: Many of the answers being prepared for him do not sound much like Mr. Trump as his usual self.[...]

To the first question, “Are you a Christian and do you believe the Bible is an inspired word of God?” the scriptwriters have a response they hope will keep Mr. Trump from repeating previous stumbles when asked about his faith.

“As I went through my life, things got busy with business, but my family kept me grounded to the truth and the word of God,” the script has Mr. Trump saying. “I treasure my relationship with my family, and through them, I have a strong faith enriched by an ever-wonderful God.”

That is some version of Donald J. Trump I have never met-- are his script writers inventing an entirely new character? And do they think their proposed audience will buy it?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

I don't think Conway is going anywhere:

@costareports: Bossie hire was in the works for weeks. Some GOP leaders were uneasy about him getting a top job. But Trump/Bannon/Conway hired him anyway.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:41 PM on September 1, 2016

For those of you who want something beautiful, Garrison Keillor has written a magnificent takedown of Donnie.
posted by stolyarova at 3:42 PM on September 1, 2016 [39 favorites]

Standard reality show mechanics.

I'm surprised he hasn't recognized this as a good tie-in for his brand and done some sort of public YOU'RE FIRRRRRRRED shenanigans.

Or perhaps this is all being filmed in secret and will become the next season of The Apprentice: Campaign Edition.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:42 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

I've heard both NPR and my mother tell me today that Hillary has disappeared from her own campaign. Is this a thing?

It's a thing, but it's a bullshit thing. It's entirely grading on the Trump Curve, where choosing how to allocate field offices and raising money and, y'know, planning an actual campaign don't count but media stunts and random rallies do.

For reference purposes: this time in 2008 and 2012, the conventions hadn't even finished.
posted by holgate at 3:43 PM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

Someone said yesterday here that they were surprised people say that the media is soft on Trump because people think of him as a joke - they just had some guy on MSNBC saying that he had "no idea" what Hillary Clinton's views on immigration are - "does she just want to let everyone in? that would be bad" and it went unchallenged until the Clinton supporter answered.

Like, the hosts never call out any of the bullshit. And if there is no Clinton supporter, it just goes unanswered.
posted by zutalors! at 3:43 PM on September 1, 2016 [29 favorites]

That is some version of Donald J. Trump I have never met-- are his script writers inventing an entirely new character? And do they think their proposed audience will buy it?

Jesus-Trump is the most unbelievable version of Trump. He can't even do it with a straight face, which is surprising because of how many other things that never happened he can claim to be true without flinching. Twenty seconds into I'm the Dictator you get a sense of this man's religion.
posted by dis_integration at 3:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Jeet Heer: Really looks like Kellyanne Conway is on the way out.

Can I call bad strategy now on Rachel Maddow's softball interview with her? It was supposed to be some sort of route to get Trump on Maddow's show.
posted by zutalors! at 3:47 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm surprised he hasn't recognized this as a good tie-in for his brand and done some sort of public YOU'RE FIRRRRRRRED shenanigans.

I'm surprised that, for all his "you're fired!" bluster, he doesn't seem to actually fire anyone. Most of the people fired from the campaign have been asked to resign. (I know, same diff, but it's just another example of him talking the talk but not walking the walk.)
posted by kirkaracha at 3:48 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do you remember when Clinton was actually giving a speech and CNN cut away from her to a live feed of a podium where Trump was going to speak in a moment? That's the media coverage in a nutshell. Yes, HRC gave a speech yesterday to the American Legion in Cincinnati on "American Exceptionalism. Yet there are plenty of so-called journalists on air today acting like she has completely disappeared.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:51 PM on September 1, 2016 [45 favorites]

in the hope that after Trump takes power he'll allow them to survive
He has already declared that he'll change the Libel Laws if elected. But even losing, the Thiel example shows that every news media entity is threatened by spiteful billionaires. The bad news: Trump is notoriously litigation-addicted already. The good news: he doesn't have all that much money, remember? AND the owner of the Washington Post has more (but it may raise some prices on Amazon).
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

WaPo: Trump enlists veteran operative David Bossie as deputy campaign manager

Conway said Bossie would be assisting her with managing day-to-day operations and with strategic planning.

"He's a battle-tested warrior and a brilliant strategist," Conway said. "He's a nuts-and-bolts tactician as well, who's going to help us fully integrate our ground game and data operations, and help with overall strategy as my deputy."

Bossie will also work on crafting attacks against Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, mining past controversies involving her and former president Bill Clinton, and cultivating Trump’s bond with conservative activists.

The addition of Bossie, who first gained notice in the 1990s as the Republican congressional staffer who aggressively delved into the Clintons’ finances and dealings, is the latest sign that the Trump campaign’s new leadership team is embracing right-wing figures whose ties to the party’s elected leadership have been tenuous or even hostile.{...}

Bossie first began looking into the Clintons as a staffer on the Senate’s special committee on the Whitewater real estate affair. His work there was noticed by then House speaker Newt Gingrich, who approved tapping him to be the chief investigator for the House’s Government Reform and Oversight Committee.

Great. Whitewater. I can only imagine that HRC is clenching her jaw and trying not to breathe fire.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

That Garrison Keillor piece is really good. I actually felt bad for Donnie at the end.
posted by OmieWise at 3:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hadas Gold: Daily Mail, sued today for $150M by Melania Trump RETRACTS and apologizes for its story it was sued over

So does this mean the lawsuit will be dropped or will it continue? Trump loves to sue and he is particularly vengeful. How much danger is the Daily Mail in? I mean I know they are a British Rag but they must have weathered many lawsuits, right?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on September 1, 2016

> Great. Whitewater. I can only imagine that HRC is clenching her jaw and trying not to breathe fire.

Probably more like "Whitewater? LOL that's all you got?"
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Or perhaps this is all being filmed in secret and will become the next season of The Apprentice: Campaign Edition.

You know, some of his antics do make more sense if you imagine them being planned by competing teams of contestants working under goofy contrived rules.
posted by contraption at 4:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Here's the retraction.

The article, which was also published online by the Mailonline/DailyMail.com website under the headline 'Naked photoshoots, and troubling questions about visas that won't go away: The VERY racy past of Donald Trump's Slovenian wife' did not intend to state or suggest that these allegations are true, nor did it intend to state or suggest that Mrs. Trump ever worked as an 'escort' or in the 'sex business.'

To the contrary, The Daily Mail newspaper article stated that there was no support for the allegations, and it provided adamant denials from Mrs. Trump's spokesperson and from Mr. Zampolli.

The point of the article was that these allegations could impact the U.S. presidential election even if they are untrue.

Mrs. Trump's counsel in the U.S. and the U.K., have stated unequivocally that the allegations about the modeling agencies are false.

To the extent that anything in the Daily Mail's article was interpreted as stating or suggesting that Mrs. Trump worked as an 'escort' or in the 'sex business,' that she had a 'composite or presentation card for the sex business,' or that either of the modeling agencies referenced in the article were engaged in these businesses, it is hereby retracted, and the Daily Mail newspaper regrets any such misinterpretation.

The Daily Mail newspaper and MailOnline/DailyMail.com have entirely separate editors and journalistic teams.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

That Garrison Keillor piece is really good. I actually felt bad for Donnie at the end.

Minnesota Nice.
posted by chaoticgood at 4:05 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

holgate: "It's entirely grading on the Trump Curve"

Speaking of which, from today's (9/1) Washington Post, "Trump pays IRS a penalty for his foundation violating rules with gift to aid Florida attorney general":

Donald Trump paid the IRS a $2,500 penalty this year, an official at Trump's company said, after it was revealed that Trump's charitable foundation had violated tax laws by giving a political contribution to a campaign group connected to Florida's attorney general.

The improper donation, a $25,000 gift from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, was made in 2013. At the time, Attorney General Pam Bondi was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against Trump University. She decided not to pursue the case.

Also, was it ever cleared up if the various Trump charities actually did any, y'know, charitable works?
posted by mhum at 4:10 PM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

Wow, a $2500 fine for a $25,000 illegal donation. Who says the IRS doesn't go after the big guys?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [12 favorites]

Robert Costa: Just got a phone call that began with "I can't talk to you because we've taken away your press credentials but... " What an election.

Costa is the one who got the phone call about Bossie. He is a National Political Reporter for the Washington Post, and the Washington Post has been blackballed by Trump for quite a while now. Since before the primaries ended anyway. He also reports that Bossie has ties to the Mercer family along with Bannon and Conway.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

A donation that tanked an investigation .
posted by OmieWise at 4:18 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jesus. If this election doesn't end in a flaming ball of shit, I'm going to be stunned.
posted by Sophie1 at 4:18 PM on September 1, 2016

Biden's speech is worth watching. He's not just trying to tie Trump to the Republicans, he's making a case for why all Republicans should be voted out. And he's getting a little angry while doing it. Making the point that Republicans have already voted for budgets that would cut Social Security and Medicare, six times, while in Congress.
posted by peacheater at 4:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [17 favorites]

Garrison Keillor has written a magnificent takedown of Donnie.

OMG. I never had time for Keillor, but now I understand why "sarcasm" literally means "tearing flesh".
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:26 PM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

what exactly has been unprecedented and outliery? I keep seeing "unprecedented" but it's mostly about feelings.

I was just watching a documentary on the shooting of JFK and they mentioned that Adlai Stevenson, US ambassador to the UN, had been beat up in Dallas by conservatives over civil rights 'disagreements' before the assassination.

Crazy shit has been going on in election season since forever in America.
posted by srboisvert at 4:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

The lawyer who sued Gawker and won is the same one now suing the Daily Mail. Oh noes. I love Daily Mail's zany animal videos and pictures in my newsfeed every morning. They have a lot of amateur videos shot on vacation.

... You're not a Brit, are you? The Daily Wail might have been the newspaper Fox News was modelled on. And it has about as much chance of letting truth get in the way of a story that supports its editorial line as Fox News does.
posted by Francis at 4:29 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah, I think the thing that gets me is that everyone (all the nice right-thinking good people) seem to be pretending this election is not really happening. My friends, even the ones who think that Trump is awful and a threat to our democracy, seem to be sitting back and relaxing and attending Our Revolution meetings rather than speaking out against the fascist horror that is Donald Trump.

Yes this. I feel like all my so-called activist friends are just TIRED of the election and would rather talk about whatever cause is indie-cool, meanwhile there's a freaking fascist running for president. Speaking out against Trump doesn't give them the kind of cred they are looking for, I guess, but seriously, I feel like people are starting to forget how offensive he is. If people get bored of denouncing Trump, I'm afraid a lot of people who stopped supporting him due to the negative social pressure may just decide he's not so bad.

So yeah, I'm disturbed by how little attention I see being given him among my normal social circles.
posted by threeturtles at 4:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

Well, to start with, a reality TV star and complete political novice managed to secure the presidential nomination of a major party while alienating the entire party establishment (many of whom have cravenly chosen to support him anyway

Remember that time when the United States elected an actor who had worked with chimpanzees president? That happend twice and once while he was starting to go senile.
posted by srboisvert at 4:36 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Garrison Keillor has written a magnificent takedown of Donnie.

And unfortunately, from perusing the comments, it looks like this has only solidified some Trump fans' loyalty.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 PM on September 1, 2016

sorry if this was posted earlier (did a quick search for "shift" but found nothing). voter shift from 2012 to 2016.
posted by andrewcooke at 4:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Crazy shit has been going on in election season since forever in America.

Party national conventions were invented in the early 19th century by a fringe group that were against the spread of Masonic influence in the country, so
posted by Apocryphon at 4:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Remember that time when the United States elected an actor who had worked with chimpanzees president? That happend twice and once while he was starting to go senile.

Are you by any chance referring to the two-term governor of the most populous state in the country?
posted by dersins at 4:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Rude Pundit: Donald Trump Decides to Dance With Them What Brung Him
posted by gaspode at 4:45 PM on September 1, 2016

I follow a lot of comedians on Twitter, and I get the sense that for a lot of them—especially younger white males—it's considered almost 'hacky' to aggressively go after Trump.

Like, it scores you no internet cool points to go hard at the obviously evil Voldemort—not when you've got goody-two-shoes Dumbledore sitting over there just begging to have his dumb old hat and beard made into a meme.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:48 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Who exactly is Dumbledore in this analogy?
posted by dersins at 4:49 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Like, it scores you no internet cool points to go hard at the obviously evil Voldemort

Well, yeah - it's low-hanging fruit, to be sure, but there's a lot of satisfaction to be had in poking a bear that ain't used to being poked. I mean, they go batshit insane.

And do I cackle? I guess I do.
posted by Mooski at 4:52 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

(I guess this is the part where I confess I've never read or seen any of the Harry Potter books or movies.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:53 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wow, a $2500 fine for a $25,000 illegal donation.

Technically it is a 10% excise tax for an improper expenditure.

The Trump Foundation and the Clinton Foundation are both 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. But the Trump Foundation is a private foundation while the Clinton Foundation is a public charity.

By default a 501(c)(3) is a private foundation which means that it has a limited number of donors and is closely controlled by the founder. An example would be the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. In order to be declared a public charity like the Clinton's, a foundation must pass much more stringent requirements on transparency and it generally has a much wider, public source of donations.

A private foundation like Trump's is subject to more tax rules and tighter oversight because of the potential for abuse and self-dealing. Expenditure of funds for improper purposes, such as a political contribution, would be subject to an excise tax as determined by the IRS. That seems to be the case for the Trump Foundation.
posted by JackFlash at 4:53 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

>Wow, a $2500 fine for a $25,000 illegal donation.

Technically it is a 10% excise tax for an improper expenditure.

Is it a deductable business expense tho
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm sure that HRC expected whoever got the GOP nom to scrape the shit from the bottom of the barrel, though having that shit in human form work for the campaign is more novel.

How many votes does a combination of re-litigating the 90s and rank misogyny gain Trump?

But Bossie, like Stone (who I'm sure is working in the background) is pure dirty tricks. Expect to see random long-dormant orgs with names like "Americans For Stuff" registered to postal box addresses spun up for flyers and radio ads that break the law but can't be traced or punished -- and maybe social media shit and voter suppression work. Maybe one of those one-hour ad buys for 'Killary Benghazi: The Movie'. DDOS strategy.
posted by holgate at 4:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

and if improperly deducted, is the fine $250?
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:58 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I, for one, wish I was unethical enough to start a Pac to fleece the stupid andthe racists. There's gold in them there hills.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:00 PM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yes this. I feel like all my so-called activist friends are just TIRED of the election and would rather talk about whatever cause is indie-cool,

That assumes they gave a shit at any point. One of the common refrains I've heard is that there is no difference between Temp and Clinton, or even that Clinton would be worse, because she would get us into war.

So if they've been buying into the refrain "There is no difference", it's going to be really hard to get people to switch course and admit that Trump is actually the real threat.

This is why I've pretty much stopped reading the ontd-political community; all the very very liberal people there are busy reposting articles about how corrupt Clinton is, and saying how they'd like for her to barely scrape it a victory, to show "You can't take the Left for granted." That sort of idiocy just isn't good for my blood pressure.
posted by happyroach at 5:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [24 favorites]

I, for one, wish I was unethical enough to start a Pac to fleece the stupid andthe racists.

I dunno - wouldn't that be sorta like whipping the money changers? I think you might get a pass on that one.
posted by Mooski at 5:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

sorry if this was posted earlier (did a quick search for "shift" but found nothing). voter shift from 2012 to 2016.

So 7% of the 2012 electorate who voted for Obama is now voting for Trump?
That's... surprising to the point of being hard to believe.
posted by Superplin at 5:09 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

I have just started an organizing job with a certain nonpartisan Association that does issue advocacy for Retired People, and part of the job is organizing members to go to presidential candidate rallies and have a good visible presence in the hopes that the candidates will address our issues. Next week in Florida I will be attending my first Trump rally in an area where many of the people I am organizing will likely be Trump supporters. Wish me luck! And a Valium hookup. Wish me one of those too.
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [17 favorites]

So 7% of the 2012 electorate who voted for Obama is now voting for Trump?

Obama -> Bernie -> Buster

is my guess
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think it's comparing current polling to actual 2012 results so... interesting idea but kind of apples and cantaloupes in implementation.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:19 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I was just watching a documentary on the shooting of JFK and they mentioned that Adlai Stevenson, US ambassador to the UN, had been beat up in Dallas by conservatives over civil rights 'disagreements' before the assassination.

There is a reason that Dallas, led by the red-baiting of the Dallas Morning News, was known as The City of Hate long before the assassination of JFK. The editorial page referred to JFK as a crook, a Communist sympathizer, a thief, and “fifty times a fool.”

Sound familiar? Are you scared yet?
posted by JackFlash at 5:19 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

So 7% of the 2012 electorate who voted for Obama is now voting for Trump?

The percentages on the left and right don't match up; they are applied to different totals. So, for example, 1% on the left might equal 0.7% on the right. I didn't work out the details, it just pissed me off and I wrote it off.
posted by Quonab at 5:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think it's comparing current polling to actual 2012 results

Much more likely that it's just asking respondents "Who did you vote for in 2012?" and "Who would you vote for if the election were today?" Which is still apples and cantaloupes. A lot of those notionally undecided or third-party people will vote for Clinton or Trump in the end, and at least a few of those people who said they voted for Obama or Romney are... mis-remembering, he says charitably... their vote.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

MSNBC is making up for all its Chuck Todd by letting Joy Reid fill in for Chris Hayes.

By the way, she's not a shark or a killer or anything else people were saying when comparing her to the "more strategic" Maddow - she just calls out the bullshit as soon as she hears it. She isn't shouting at anyone. It's not hardball.
posted by zutalors! at 5:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

It's a known phenomenon that the number of people who self-report having voted for the previous winner is larger than the number of people who actually voted for the previous winner. People don't like to admit having voted for a losing candidate.
posted by Justinian at 5:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

For the "there is no difference between Trump and HRC" crowd I always use the John Oliver line, "Congratulations on your white penis!"
posted by phliar at 5:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [25 favorites]

She isn't shouting at anyone. It's not hardball.

Shouting isn't hardball, it's Hardball.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yea, I just felt there was a weird racial tone to saying that Maddow was being strategic and tactful with Kellyanne Conway and Joy Reid would have been too aggressive. I've never seen her be anything I would call aggressive.
posted by zutalors! at 5:38 PM on September 1, 2016

I just felt there was a weird racial tone to saying that Maddow was being strategic and tactful with Kellyanne Conway and Joy Reid would have been too aggressive.

Are you talking about my comments?
posted by cashman at 5:41 PM on September 1, 2016

I don't know, I don't remember who made what comment.
posted by zutalors! at 5:44 PM on September 1, 2016

I just felt there was a weird racial tone to saying that Maddow was being strategic and tactful with Kellyanne Conway and Joy Reid would have been too aggressive.

Mika(!) got accused of being unfair when she pressed a Trump surrogate on a question, so more likely sexist (although the Trump camp are notorious victims, so IDK.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't know, I don't remember who made what comment.

This one?
posted by cashman at 5:48 PM on September 1, 2016

she just calls out the bullshit as soon as she hears it. She isn't shouting at anyone. It's not hardball.

It sounds like she's accurate. And in this season of fail it's startling that any journalists and commentators are even trying to be accurate and trying to interrupt the flow of pure garbage that is coming from candidates (R) and surrogates (R).
posted by puddledork at 5:52 PM on September 1, 2016

Thank God for Joy Reid. At this point it feels like she's the personal guardian of my sanity.

(And thank God for Rev Barber too)
posted by schadenfrau at 5:55 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Joy-Ann is talking about the outreach thing now (the script).
posted by cashman at 5:57 PM on September 1, 2016

Sopan Deb: Peak Trump alert: Telling @ericbolling that his Mexico trip was one of the best covered trips, well, ever

Transcript is from tonight when Trump was on FOX.

"I think we had a great meeting . It was well covered by I guess as much as anyone has ever been covered in one of these meetings. And you know, I'm not even a President. I guess it was pretty unusual, because as a President you get this kind of coverage. Although they didn't get as much."

What a preening little prick he is to be sure.

In the same interview he gave attendance figures for the Phoenix rally at 15 thousand. My husband and I were wondering how many showed up so we googled it this morning. Seating capacity is 4,500. So I don't know. Does attendance include all the loonies and protesters and vendors outside?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [19 favorites]

Is there some weird left-wing wackiness going around about bees? I know there are some conspiracy theories regarding disappearing bees, but I'm seeing stuff on Facebook from left-wing friends about the zika-spraying in SC killing bees. I guess I'm ok with a few bees dying if that lowers the chances of zika spreading, but I'd like to know what people here think about that whole situation (since I trust you all more than my Facebook friends).
posted by peacheater at 5:58 PM on September 1, 2016

Joy Reid had a Latino Trump supporter who said "You don't know these Mexicans, there will be a taco truck on every corner" and she was like what no you can't. I almost feel like PoC Trump supporters get more outrageous with her because they feel like they can.
posted by zutalors! at 5:58 PM on September 1, 2016

haha she is replaying the taco truck thing now.
posted by zutalors! at 5:59 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

That Garrison Keillor article is weak sauce folks. It bears as much likely relevance to reality as Michael Moores hot hairdresser gossip. Trump isn't some fun lonely cartoon version of a tragic flaw male like Bojack Horseman. He's a vicious demagogue that is really close to destroying democracy on earth. Stick your whimsical fantasy back in your mosquito clogged lake and get to work on the phone or something Garry.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:59 PM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

I felt like there was a racial tone to saying that Joy Reid is aggressive while Rachel Maddow is strategic, not scare quote "racial." I think you're missing my point in a weird way, spitbull.

And Rachel rolled over on Conway by letting lots of bullshit get over the transom.

Yes, I agree with that. That's why I didn't think it was strategic.
posted by zutalors! at 6:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Scott Wooledge:"You're going to have taco trucks on every corner," #Latinos4Trump founder warns if @realDonaldTrump loses. #Inners

Yeah I don't know what that means. I think it is some sort of weird threat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Is there some weird left-wing wackiness going around about bees?

No, SC used aerial spraying to stop zika (which hasn't been found in the state) and killed millions of bees as well. /derail
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

esp because lots of taco trucks are run by white people.
posted by zutalors! at 6:02 PM on September 1, 2016

Taco trucks are a threat? Have these people ever eaten at a taco truck? Having one on your corner is kind of the opposite of a bad thing, except possibly with regard to your obesity.
posted by Mitrovarr at 6:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [38 favorites]

Yes but are they going to be Taco BOWL Trucks? Asking for a friend.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am so confused by the taco truck thing. Is this a thing that people, like, fear?

I would fucking love it if we had taco trucks on every corner.
posted by dersins at 6:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [38 favorites]

there will be a taco truck on every corner

Like it's a bad thing?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:04 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Joy was like "i don't know what that means, I don't want to know."
posted by zutalors! at 6:06 PM on September 1, 2016

Yeah, bring on the taco trucks sez I. Taco trucks are fucking great, I miss living somewhere where they're common. They're cheap and delicious.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:06 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Scott Wooledge:"You're going to have taco trucks on every corner," #Latinos4Trump founder warns if @realDonaldTrump loses. #Inners

So...he's campaigning against Trump?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:07 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think those rare POC Trump Spokescritters are free to use racist stereotypes against themselves, and it may be rather comforting (and lucrative... remember Steppin Fetchit was one of the highest paid actors in his time).
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:07 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

We have no taco trucks here in Garner, NC. :(

Instead I, the chief chef and bottle-washer, have to make our tacos myself for Taco Thursday.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

They just made taco trucks legal here; they can't take them away now.
posted by octothorpe at 6:08 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Also "taco trucks on every corner" are a serious threat to the Taco Bell and Chipotle franchise owners, a vital Trump demographic.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:09 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can the HRC campaign open a taco truck now
posted by zutalors! at 6:10 PM on September 1, 2016 [29 favorites]

Clinton 2016: a taco on every corner, guacamole in every pot.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:10 PM on September 1, 2016 [28 favorites]

Yeah. L.A. has taco trucks on every corner and this is so not a bad thing. I wish there was one in the middle of the block, too.

Also re: bees, yeah. I'm a beekeeper. Spraying for Zika in SC did a number on a couple of large-ish apiaries.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:11 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Superplin/Guacamole for Metafilter President!
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:11 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

May I FTFY, my friend?

Yeah I don't know what ["taco trucks on every corner"] means. I think it is some sort of ~~weird~~ threat.

Mmmmmm, truck tacos.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:12 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

That guy also said Mexicans are a "dominant culture"
posted by zutalors! at 6:12 PM on September 1, 2016

Here's footage of the 'taco truck on every corner' line, and Joy Reid's reaction to it.
posted by airish at 6:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Tim Kaine was barnstorming NH today. Here's his short campaign speech: Senator Tim Kaine Rally in Nashua, New Hampshire (9-1-16)

Note proper tie length
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

zutalors!, you seem to be referring to what I was talking about, because I was the one that couched things in those terms to start with. What you may have not seen prior to that was me saying that I operate like Joy-Ann. Aggressive. Direct. I love Joy-Ann's style, because it's like my own. That's how I know the pitfalls of it firsthand. Other people I'm close with adopt a more Maddow-like style and so many times that works.

There is no racial angle in my comments. I can't speak for others. Again, Joy-Ann's style is my style. When I watch people on these networks saying contradictory or ridiculous things, I react like Joy-Ann does. I'm incensed. I would be just like her, and just keep pressing the point until the person gave me an actual answer, whereas so many of these hosts just let it slide and move to the next point. So many of the things Joy-Ann says and does, whether it's telling her guests that policies would personally affect them, or saying "that's a no then" when a guest just dances around a question for minutes on end. Joy-Ann is awesome.
posted by cashman at 6:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

We have no taco trucks here in Garner, NC. :(

I am actually surprised by that
posted by thelonius at 6:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Man now I really want tacos.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Also, new Joy-Ann Reid at 11:00pm! Whee!
posted by cashman at 6:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't think Joy Reid is aggressive and I think it can be problematic to describe African Americans as aggressive compared with strategic whites. It happens a million times with NFL quarterbacks, it's not something I just made up right now.

It's not the hugest deal ever, but I feel like we can avoid that sort of thing.

Like if you don't want to avoid it, don't, but I've been trying not to engage with this thing and wasn't even calling any one comment out directly.
posted by zutalors! at 6:19 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

We have no taco trucks here in Garner, NC. :(

I am actually surprised by that

It's pretty whitebread around here. We just had a big strip mall development expansion and now at White Oaks we have a Red Robin, Five Brothers, Panera, Zaxby, TGIFriday, Buffalo Brothers, Logans, Buffalo Wings, Carolina Ale House, and a bunch of other places where they serve you food that was previously frozen. Very few ethnic restaurants and most of those are little takeout places in grocery store strip malls.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:21 PM on September 1, 2016

I get your reservations about the description. I understand how that can be problematic and I certainly don't think you made anything up. I recognize that you weren't attempting to call out any one comment. However, I was the one that introduced that entire thing, so though that wasn't your intent, it pointed pretty directly at me. I wanted to add the context from a comment before that one, that Joy's style is my style. That's why I literally, though playfully suggested they get rid of almost all of their hosts, and replace them all with Joy. At any rate, I hope we can end agreeing that the best thing about 90 minutes from now, is more Joy.
posted by cashman at 6:26 PM on September 1, 2016

"My candidate will make it less convenient to buy tacos!"

THIS IS NOT A WINNING ARGUMENT
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:29 PM on September 1, 2016 [54 favorites]

I thought it was supposed to be Taco Tuesday and Throwback Thursday. Today I ate an old Stouffer's Lasagna that had been in the back of my freezer for years... sigh, I just keep getting it wrong... and getting indigestion.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:16 PM on September 1

Taco Thursday has been celebrated at the Gravy house for at least 10 years. Friday is Cheeseburger and Onion Rings Day. My husband likes his meals....pre-planned and consistent. For those of you taking notes the condiments for Cheeseburger and Onion Ring day are: Lettuce, dill pickles, bread and butter pickles, banana peppers, ketchup, yellow mustard, and Barbecue sauce. I haven't eaten a cheeseburger in probably 5 years so for me Friday is more of a Taco Bowl Salad redux.

Back to the election...

Mashable: Mexico's president is now feuding with Donald Trump on Twitter

It is so very presidential to feud on twitter. Why is Obama such a sad sack? Think of the arguments he could have with Putin!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

Are there anti-taco people!?

Trump never liked Puttin' on the Ritz. No sir.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:32 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump never liked Puttin' on the Ritz. No sir.

I have no doubt he thought the blackface bit in the video was hilarious.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:36 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just to acknowledge: the taco truck thing is mind-boggingly racist no matter who said it in addition to being bizarrely unaware of how popular tacos actually are.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:36 PM on September 1, 2016 [20 favorites]

To sum

Speech in Mexico - Twitter for iPhone.
Speech in Arizona - Twitter for Android.

— Brendan Nyhan (@BrendanNyhan) September 1, 2016

posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump never liked Puttin' on the Ritz. No sir.

He's more like, "Putin is the shizz."
posted by donatella at 6:43 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Putin on the Ritz
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:46 PM on September 1, 2016 [11 favorites]

We have no taco trucks here in Garner, NC. :(

I am actually surprised by that

It's pretty whitebread around here. We just had a big strip mall development expansion

That's what's surprising. Usually where there's construction, there's taco trucks. It was one of the few things that made life in exurban Charlotte, NC tolerable.
posted by Daily Alice at 6:50 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

MeFites who are semi-reluctant volunteers for Clinton, I need a pep talk.

I live in a battleground county in Ohio, and I feel like it's my moral duty to log some volunteer hours for Clinton, even though I am sort of lukewarm on her (see standard leftist complaints). However I 10000% would rather have her in office and a Congress full of blue dog Democrats than the idea of Trump getting anywhere within even county dog catcher. I will not be able to live with myself if a worst case scenario takes place in November and I know I didn't get off my ass for at least a few hours in my swing state to do some work on her behalf (especially because a campaign office is LITERALLY up the street from me).

I just signed up to do some door knocking in my neighborhood this weekend through the campaign website. Last time I did this in 2008 was for Obama who I ~*~believed~*~ in and loved, and it was easy to feel fired up knocking on doors and marking down the clipboard sheets. Will I need to fake full-on passion for Clinton? The whole "I'm With Her" thing has always felt weird and forced to me.

Sorry if this sounds whingey, I would really appreciate some earnest answers about best way to approach it this weekend. When I need to turn it on, I can be very diplomatic and gregarious, so that's why I'm okay doing door knocking as opposed to just data entry.
posted by mostly vowels at 6:50 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Mexico's president is now feuding with Donald Trump on Twitter

Trump manages to mess up international relations between the US and Mexico without even holding elected office.

I wonder what kind of phone calls the actual, say, US ambassador to Mexico had to make today.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 6:51 PM on September 1, 2016 [23 favorites]

Mexico's president is now feuding with Donald Trump on Twitter

Is that eligible for a Hugo? The Campbell, maybe?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:54 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

MeFites who are semi-reluctant volunteers for Clinton, I need a pep talk.

Pretend she's Obama. Seriously. No one has made a convincing case that she's going to do anything much different than what he's been doing for 8 years, they're even attacking her as Obama's 3rd term...so? Would you campaign for a third term of Obama? Go out and do that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:55 PM on September 1, 2016 [36 favorites]

He's more like, "Putin is the shizz."

If you're blue and you don't know
Where to go to, why don't you go
Where fascism sits? Putin' is the shizz
Different types don't wear a damn
top/ pants with camo, cross-a-bow
bolts/ perfect hits, Putin' is the shizz
Dressed up like a million-dollar dictat'r
Tryin' hard to look like muscled Hitler
(Super tripper!)
...etc.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:55 PM on September 1, 2016 [27 favorites]

It's pretty whitebread around here.

I haven't been in Garner in a long time and I would be extrapolating from Orange County, which has plenty of taco trucks.
posted by thelonius at 6:56 PM on September 1, 2016

(Thank you for taking the Taco joke and running with it!)
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:57 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Re: Taco Trucks. My house was pretty destroyed by storms this spring, and rebuilding has taken a lot more time than anticipated. Mostly because there's a real shortage in construction workers, especially skilled workers like carpenters and qualified roofers. Anyway, I finally got a crew up on my roof a couple weeks ago, and like magic, the food truck appeared outside my house at lunch time. The roofers seemed confused because I came out for the truck, but then I bought lunch for everyone, and brought out folding tables and chairs for them to set up under the trees so they had somewhere to sit, and they officially declared my house to be the best house ever. (For the record, I asked the crew boss if that was something the guys would like, or if they'd rather go sit in AC at fast food joint, but he said most of the local businesses were being snooty about dirty workers. Unspoken was the belief that if those dirty workers had been white, it wouldn't have been a problem.) But every day they were on my roof, the truck would show up, and I would go buy lunch. I was almost sad when they were done, because the truck hasn't been back since they left. I'm hoping it comes back when I hire drywallers and painters. That truck had the best tamales I've ever had.

So I say, more taco trucks for all!
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:00 PM on September 1, 2016 [116 favorites]

I just signed up to do some door knocking in my neighborhood this weekend through the campaign website. Last time I did this in 2008 was for Obama who I ~*~believed~*~ in and loved, and it was easy to feel fired up knocking on doors and marking down the clipboard sheets. Will I need to fake full-on passion for Clinton? The whole "I'm With Her" thing has always felt weird and forced to me.

I don't think you need to fake full-on passion or say "I'm With Her" or anything that feels forced. You'll need to be able to sincerely ask if the person you're talking to is going to support Hillary Clinton in November and you'll need to ask it in a warm way. But the canvassing seems to be more about trying to figure out who are dedicated Clinton supporters, who are undecideds, who are Trump supporters, not about trying to persuade people on their doorsteps. I think that would be unproductive, you're far better off finding the supporters so we can target them with GOTV efforts. I think there's a place for every kind of Clinton supporter in the campaign. I'm sure there will be people you talk to who will find it easier to relate to you than someone who was supporting Clinton from the beginning and that could be very valuable.
posted by peacheater at 7:00 PM on September 1, 2016 [21 favorites]

In response to West Virginia's Senators' dismissive statements on Obama's $16m in infrastructure and other spending to improve employment in the state, the Charleston Gazette-Mail published this editorial: It’s bad manners to bite the hand:

The coal jobs are going to disappear, whether people choose to protect their air and water or not. Why shouldn’t West Virginians have something left of their Almost Heaven when coal is done?

Sometimes, we wonder why President Obama bothers with places like West Virginia, which seem to give him nothing but grief, even when he is looking after the people’s needs and best interests. It’s because he is the bigger person.

posted by palindromic at 7:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [59 favorites]

I think I'm going to have to stop phone banking. Maybe I can do data entry or something.

In one hour, the only people who were home were older women who--coincidentally, I guess--immigrated to the US decades ago (from various countries). They were all (understandably) extremely upset after last night's speech, perhaps especially so because it was here, and talking to them made me cry. Which, you know, does not make it easy to hold productive volunteer recruitment conversations.

I left early tonight. Not for the first time, I suspect I am too emotional for politics.
posted by Superplin at 7:05 PM on September 1, 2016 [37 favorites]

"he's an extremely cloistered rich guy, who wears and sells neckties, who desperately wants you to believe he's tough."

-- Lawrence O'Donnell on Donald Trump.
posted by zutalors! at 7:06 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

The softening is real.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:07 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

MeFites who are semi-reluctant volunteers for Clinton, I need a pep talk.

Clinton isn't Obama or Sanders. Obama and Sanders were knights in shining armour. Clinton is a knight in battered armour, covered in mud, blood, and pieces of dragon. If she can face down the Republican smear machine for about 25 years you can do this.
posted by Francis at 7:09 PM on September 1, 2016 [133 favorites]

How race and identity became the central dividing line in American politics has been linked before but I thought I would boost it. It's a really, really good read. This other piece also has some neat charts showing the racial alignment that has taken place.

It sort of validates something I've been thinking this year, which is: Have the Democrats always been this cool (/strongly decisively supportive of racial equality)? And the answer is no, they have not. The two parties started diverging on racial issues around '04.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:11 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clinton is Brienne.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:11 PM on September 1, 2016 [31 favorites]

Dwyane Wade's response to Trump's tweet is remarkably circumspect. What a position to be in.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:12 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Binyamin Appelbaum of the NYTimes on Twitter: Today we learned there are two Americas: One that thinks "taco trucks on every corner" is terrifying, and one that thinks: delicious.
and then:
There will be no taco trucks in Cambridge, MA, however, because there all the corners have been declared to be "squares."

posted by peacheater at 7:16 PM on September 1, 2016 [15 favorites]

Next Trump rally needs a segment with people who tell their tragic stories about eating at taco trucks.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 7:16 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

ChurchHatesTucker: I liked Brendan Nyhan's tweet better when I saw it first from T. D. Strange in this thread.
posted by holgate at 7:19 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Dwyane Wade's response to Trump's tweet is remarkably circumspect. What a position to be in.

A minute of video covering the exchange.
posted by cashman at 7:22 PM on September 1, 2016

Clinton is Brienne.

Oh Gods of Metafilter, hear this my supplication in our hour of need.

I will eat all my beans and pancakes and take good care of the pony, just please, oh please, make this into some kind of epic meme that takes over the internet and wins hearts and minds everywhere.

Please oh please.
posted by anastasiav at 7:26 PM on September 1, 2016 [30 favorites]

I liked Brendan Nyhan's tweet better when I saw it first from T. D. Strange in this thread.

...full discourse I cribbed that from Twitter. I'm the George Lopez of election threads, sorry.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

The internet is an ourobouros of content (or, in certain circles, a human centipede). Joy matters most. No worries.
posted by stolyarova at 7:30 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

I did once have a fish taco in some San Fran joint close to, I think, 2nd and Market, and it was delicious.

I also got the collywobbles, which made my first day covering some tech baloney at the Moscone a bit more challenging than normal.

So: tacos at every corner? They threaten the free press and the tech industry, but not in a way that adequate restrooms and Imodium can't counteract. I say - take that risk.

(The next day, I stuck to gins at the House of Shields, and all was fine. Let any candidate come out against gin, and I will rain fire upon them.)
posted by Devonian at 7:34 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

"He wears and sells neckties" was just one of the sickest burns since the small hands thing.
posted by zutalors! at 7:38 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Clinton is a knight in battered armour, covered in mud, blood, and pieces of dragon

I'll bite your legs off!
posted by rtha at 7:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yamiche Alcindor was just on Lawrence, talking about the script for Trump's "outreach" to black people.

I didn't even get into it before because it's just so preposterous, but I just think it's hilarious that the supposed black republicans that wrote up Trump's answers, wanted him to say the part about how we need to not talk about race and it will all just magically fix itself. Okay I may have added the magically part, but that's pretty much Trump's mo. I mean I guess that is how some of these guys think about this stuff, so it makes sense. But no, that is not the way to do outreach. I hope somebody on MSNBC runs the black republicans skit from Key & Peele. I laughed at that so hard when it aired, and replayed it a good fifty times.
posted by cashman at 7:42 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hilary of the House Clinton
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:43 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Or even: a millionaire who wears and sells neckties.
posted by phliar at 7:43 PM on September 1, 2016

Come to think of it, Taco Thursday is really more of a weekly condiment festival. The table has bowls of cheese, lettuce, sour cream, guacamole, chopped tomatoes, pickled jalapenos, olives, 3 kinds of hot sauce, and 3 kinds of salsa. It's a ridiculous amount of food for two people and so very tasty.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:13 PM on September 1

So... would it be OK if I popped over every Thurs to your place? And, while I'm at it, being far too presumptuous, what else is on your household's menu? I would like to subscribe to your ~~newsletter~~ menu.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 7:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [19 favorites]

Ehhhh I like her as Brienne better than as Daenerys.
posted by stolyarova at 7:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

Steve Kornacki just replayed Rachel Maddow's beautiful rant from last night after the immigration speech. I really would love a transcript of it. It's entirely worth watching. She called the nationalism anthrax sitting dormant in the soil until a wind blows and there is a weak host. I hope when she comes back she is tougher on Trump surrogates.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:45 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

What the hell. It wouldn't be "Hillary, Stormborn of the House Clinton". It would be "Hillary Stormborn, of the House Clinton." Jesus people, get it together.
posted by Justinian at 7:46 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

'My friends died,' heckler shouts. 'So did my son,' Joe Biden shoots back
posted by vac2003 at 7:47 PM on September 1, 2016 [28 favorites]

non-readers grumble mumble ruining my nice books hrmph grmph

/book purist
posted by stolyarova at 7:48 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

I've been twitchy about volunteering for Clinton - I really want to, but I live in New Jersey, so I've been trying to just chill out instead - so I went and looked up my congresspeople. And it turns out that one of the dudes I can vote for this year is Peter Jacob, challenging the NJ-7 seat, one of the lucky few to get endorsed by Sanders and his revolution thingy! So now I have a campaign to volunteer for.

I can't vote for Cory Booker again until 2020, sadly.

'My friends died,' heckler shouts. 'So did my son,' Joe Biden shoots back
holy shit
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:52 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Brienne gets her ass kicked, and often, because she simply cannot bend to reality. She's mega-tough, so that's OK. She can take an ass-kicking that would flat out murder most men in the series. Not her. She'll go be dumb and unkillable at someone else for a while. Ideally she'd wind up as Tyrion's personal guard, "I'll need you to go and kill honorably this particular army, don't make it too quick, we have to impress the locals without terrifying them. Please keep surviving horrifying injuries to a minimum, hmm?"
Brienne: "Of course, good ser" she says as she goes out and does it.

Clinton is the Queen of Thorns, or needs to be if we want to win this.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:52 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Tomorrow's hot takes:
@voxdotcom: Taco trucks, explained
@TheFix: Taco trucks in 17 graphs
@RalstonReports: Tacos big in #NV, #wematter
posted by stolyarova at 7:56 PM on September 1, 2016 [7 favorites]

About journalism:

Thanks to a lot of the Mother Jones links in these election threads recently, I've been browsing around their website more often, which reminded me that they're a non-profit operation. I'm not too familiar with their day-to-day output, but from what I've seen, I appreciate that they seem to have actual journalists on staff who are trying to do actual, fact-based journalism.

They're currently asking for people to donate $15/month, to help with funding their work. That's more than I can do, but I chipped in a few bucks for a one-time contribution.
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 7:59 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

'My friends died,' heckler shouts. 'So did my son,' Joe Biden shoots back

“Look let me answer your question. Come back after and talk to me about this. OK? You have my permission,” finished Biden.

Shortly afterwards the man could be seen talking to secret service agents and appearing to head to a backstage area.

The protestor was referencing a controversial US decision to force the victorious Kurdish YPG forces to withdraw from the captured town of Manbij to the other side of the Euphrates river – a move aimed a placating Turkey, which views them as terrorists.

“Why did you tell the YPG to go back?” he shouted at Biden, who intervened during a recent visit to Turkey.

“Because the deal was to get them into Manbij – and to work – was that they would go back across the Euphrates so we could have [US] special forces move in. That’s why,” responded the vice-president.

Trump you motherfucker take notes because this is how you look like an adult connecting with people. I know it's misogyny but if Diamond Joe was the candidate this would be 1964 level landslide.
posted by Talez at 8:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [37 favorites]

Has anyone else been following J K Rowling's Twitter account? She's been really getting into it with a number of Corbyn supporters. I find the parallels between the left vs. liberal situation there and the one in the US really fascinating.
posted by peacheater at 8:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

I find the parallels between the left vs. liberal situation there and the one in the US really fascinating.

The left want to eat the rich. Liberals just want everyone to get a fair slice of the pie.
posted by Talez at 8:05 PM on September 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Hell, I only started voting Greens in Australian elections when the Australian Democrats were truly dead and buried because The Greens were so batshit left under Brown.
posted by Talez at 8:06 PM on September 1, 2016

The real news story to merge from Trump's Mexico trip: Donald Trump Had Visible Bobby Pins Holding His Hair Still at Mexico Press Conference.

Commentary from Wayne Bennett at field negro:

If you are a trumpster, you will justify the hairpin by saying that he needed it in his hair because he didn't want to give the Mexican president the impression that he is unkempt. Or, if you are prone to conspiracy theories, you believe the story that it was really a tiny radio to translate what the Mexican president was saying and to give him talking points while he stood there looking "presidential". If you are trump himself, though, you are calling your lawyers right now to start drawing up the papers for that Hair Club For Men lawsuit.

Friend of mine earlier today: "I am sorry dog, I am not voting for a man who wears a bobby pin in public. Period."

posted by palindromic at 8:08 PM on September 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Diamond Joe is a doofus. He says things he feels rather than thinks about. He feels deeply on complicated things that he has actually talked about. He sounds like the "drunk uncle" everyone gathers around at the firepit on Family Reunion Campout, because he actually knows what he's talking about, knows everyone's name, and will personally make sure everyone winds up at their tent, RV or trailer before the fire goes out.

Of course he knows every faction fighting in Syria by their perfectly pronounced name. It's his job. He is very good at it. He's with Her.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

Right? Diamond Joe is fantastic. He's Mr. Congeniality. But HRC is the goddamned valedictorian.
posted by stolyarova at 8:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [19 favorites]

Just now watching Biden's stop in Parma OH now. He's just layin it out. Handled the shouter so well-- "come back here after and talk to me about this." Riled up about Republicans' anti-education efforts. Audio gets out of sync on this one, though.
He really landed this one, compared to the one in Warren earlier.
posted by rp at 8:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

So .. Uh. It's perfectly reasonable for a man to use a hairpin to keep hair in place. So maybe lets bucket that into other body policing we're not going to do.
posted by R343L at 8:18 PM on September 1, 2016 [26 favorites]

So .. Uh. It's perfectly reasonable for a man to use a hairpin to keep hair in place.

Nope. Ultra clutch hairspray or nada.
posted by Talez at 8:22 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Eh. He can use what he wants to do what he wants with his hair.
posted by R343L at 8:25 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Glenn Beck: "All of us feel like we're trapped in a barn fire"

That reminds me, I'm out of popcorn.
posted by mmoncur at 8:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems the protestor had an actual, specific grievance related to the conduct of the US in a war that, well, we're not-so-covertly involved in.

I don't think a high-ranking American government official should deflect from a critique of secret-ish US military policy by pivoting to his own personal tragedy, however horrific. Even if they're a Democrat.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:27 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't agree with the shouting protests that have become so commonplace. Even at a Trump rallies.
posted by zutalors! at 8:33 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

I don't feel that he deflected. He actually offered an explanation for the actions, but the protestor kept talking over him by shouting that his friends and died and not really listening to what he was saying. At that point, he said, look, my son died too, and then offered to have him come up after the event to talk to him in person. I thought it was handled about as well as these things can - it's not reasonable to expect Biden to divert his entire speech to responding to one protestor's grievance.
posted by peacheater at 8:33 PM on September 1, 2016 [54 favorites]

I cannot with my own eyes spot that as a bobby pin. I get that it puts a dent in his performance of tough-guy masculinity. But I'd rather we got rid of the appeal of insensitive tough-guys and their silverback aggression, instead of this roundabout way of saying that Trump, despite his attempts to be otherwise, is actually pretty girly. That attack only confirms the power of the tough-guy performance. We have other ways of showing he's a coward and a narcissist besides pointing out he makes use of a traditionally feminine beauty/makeup tool. I dunno. All men on TV wear makeup. Some men wear makeup not on tv. Ja, und?
posted by dis_integration at 8:34 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Sounds like Biden handled this protester about as well as one can, but dropping the mic by invoking his son wasn't why.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:36 PM on September 1, 2016

Are there anti-taco people!?

I thought anti-taco legislation wasn't supposed to pass for another 1,000 years.
posted by furtive at 8:37 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ugh I went and read that Nate Silver piece about how if the race tightens the electoral college won't save Clinton. And first, he never actually supports that statement. It's just a headline and then a bunch of crap about how polls have tightened since the Democratic convention. It's ugly what he has become. Compare these two articles and tell me that 2016 Silver isn't trying to get readers to click on his articles:

2008: The Momentumless Primary ("Obama's winning, he's been winning, he will win, but polls can fluctuate")
2016: As Race Tightens... ("There are a few polls I'd like to cherry pick where Clinton isn't doing as well as the week after her convention")

You know what the dumbest part of 538 this cycle is? That Now-cast. They claim that if the race were held today, Trump would have a 1/4 chance of winning. If the election were held today. Going off HuffPo's poll tracker, there have been 41 national polls since July 26. Clinton has led in 41 of them. Since July 11, there have been 11 polls in Florida. Clinton led in 10 of them. 5 polls in Ohio, 5 Clinton leads. 9 in Pennsylvania, 9 Clinton leads. 10 in Virginia, 9 Clinton leads. But Nate Silver wants you to think he's created a meaningful model that currently says if the election were held today, Trump would have a 25% chance of winning. Look, a lot can happen over the next few months. Maybe there really is some October surprise that Roger Stone is planning. Or Trump could magically soften. Whatever. Don't get complacent, keep working. I can entertain notions that Sam Wang's estimate of the S.D. from previous elections is too aggressive. But Nate Silver has lost all credibility as a serious data journalist. He wants you to look at his webpage.
posted by one_bean at 8:44 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

I just signed up to do some door knocking in my neighborhood this weekend through the campaign website. Last time I did this in 2008 was for Obama who I ~*~believed~*~ in and loved, and it was easy to feel fired up knocking on doors and marking down the clipboard sheets. Will I need to fake full-on passion for Clinton? The whole "I'm With Her" thing has always felt weird and forced to me.

I was pretty worried until I reviewed the handout they sent me a couple days in advance. The bottom line is - you do not argue with the person you're talking to. You open by asking whether Hillary can count on their support (this could change depending on what cohort of people you're talking to, I guess). If the person says No, Trump, you make a polite and quick exit. If the person is undecided, you explore that by focusing on particular issues. This part is especially not hard because the other alternative is always Trump.

You will encounter some very excited Clinton people, but for the most part, not a lot of people come off as super-psyched. Most of the reaction I got was "yes, I guess I'll vote for her...I just HATE Donald Trump." Which I can always react to with enthusiasm.
posted by sallybrown at 8:47 PM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

It's funny, my wife and I are in bed and I'm watching an episode of The Simpsons, "Saddlesore Galactica" and one of the last lines is a fictional Bill Clinton saying "I'm a pretty lousy president" and my wife exclaimed "what?". She didn't realize it was from 2000.

How naive we were as a country back then.
posted by Talez at 8:48 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Someone upthread asked about attendance at Trump's Phoenix rally. Rory Carroll of the Guardian was tweeting photos last night, and here's a sample.

To be fair, it is a large hall, but Carroll says the TV cameras made everything look far more electric than the reality.
posted by salix at 9:02 PM on September 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fwiw I talked to a lot of passionate Clinton people when volunteering. They didn't all want to commit to a shift but they were like "go you guys though!"

Even the angry people were like "I donate monthly!!!"
posted by zutalors! at 9:07 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Wow, that's not even enough people to fill a Golden Corral at 4pm.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 PM on September 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

"You're going to have taco trucks on every corner"

So, a wave of entrepreneurs starting their own small businesses, creating jobs and serving delicious low-cost food? I think the country could survive that.
posted by PlusDistance at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2016 [40 favorites]

that's not even enough people to fill a Golden Corral at 4pm

Good.
posted by porpoise at 9:17 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Metafilter's own Scott Adams delights and entertains with an interview by Infowars!
posted by Yowser at 9:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

But Nate Silver wants you to think he's created a meaningful model that currently says if the election were held today, Trump would have a 25% chance of winning.

538 definitely seems to be pushing the 'don't count out trump' angle to the point of seeming to support him, yeah. But I think that 25% isn't meant to say 'polls give him a 25% chance'. It's more like 'polling itself is kind of fuzzy'

I'm a lot more skeptical of his polls-plus model. There seem to be a whole lot of assumptions applied to get the 'corrected' value - convention bounce, tendency for the margin to narrow, economic factors, etc. I'd just as soon take 'polls only' with a grain of salt than get too comfortable with SWAG ~~unskewing~~ correction factors.
posted by ctmf at 9:28 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

ugh pls no
posted by stolyarova at 9:29 PM on September 1, 2016 [6 favorites]

Josh Marshall: Trump's Blood Libel & Press Failure

The New York Times is on the receiving end of a storm of criticism at the moment for their botched story on Trump's whirlwind Wednesday from Mexico City to Phoenix. And they deserve it. But the offense is mainly one of laziness and sloppiness - offenses which the Times' privileged position makes it again and again vulnerable to. You write the story about the arc of the day, file it to edit and production. But while the piece is on autopilot in those later stages of the journalistic process the reality of the day changes radically and you end up publishing a story that is night and day of the reality everybody has just seen. But this embarrassment is a pedestrian stumble. The far greater offense is the one almost every news organization committed with the Times. This isn't 'tough' or 'hard edged' speechifying. This is hate speech. [...]

I've discussed the matter a few times in these pages. But I'm stunned at how little reaction or discussion we see of how sick and dangerous it is to parade these victimized families around like props. McClatchy has a good piece of journalism out tonight looking up the actual stories behind these testimonies. Some are more complicated than they're presented. But the family members aren't any less dead. [...]

There is a legitimate public policy question about how aggressive we should be in deporting those who our laws say should not be in the country in the first place. But the fact that some of them commit crimes is not relevant to the discussion. This is simply a way of whipping up irrational fear and hatred. Though I wouldn't use the word 'demonize', one could fairly argue that groups like MADD spent decades demonizing drunk drivers. But of course this is demonizing a specific activity which has caused thousands of deaths. There is no comparable argument to be made about immigration status. It is simply blood libel and incitement. [...]

posted by tonycpsu at 9:31 PM on September 1, 2016 [28 favorites]

Clinton is a knight in battered armour, covered in mud, blood, and pieces of dragon.

I'm pretty tired of the apologizing for supporting Clinton. I don't think I've ever been so excited about a candidate. Nothing tepid here, I've got stickers all over my car.

He can use what he wants to do what he wants with his hair.

Obviously. He's trying to prove that.
posted by bongo_x at 9:41 PM on September 1, 2016 [14 favorites]

MeFites who are semi-reluctant volunteers for Clinton, I need a pep talk.

My favorite thing about Bill Clinton's years as president is Ruth! Bader!! Ginsburg!!!
posted by puddledork at 10:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [23 favorites]

(Psst: #TacoTrucksOnEveryCorner is a thing on Twitter right now.)
posted by salix at 10:01 PM on September 1, 2016 [10 favorites]

I'm a little distressed that we haven't considered that the nice Trump man might have meant that these foreign interlopers were going to try to build trucks out of tacos. That would just not be safe!

It's all about ethics in highway safety, is what I am saying.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:10 PM on September 1, 2016 [5 favorites]

Nate Silver explained in a recent podcast that the point of the Nowcast is to get a day-to-day read on how recent events have affected public perceptions. It is explicitly not meant to predict who is going to win...

538 definitely seems to be pushing the 'don't count out trump' angle to the point of seeming to support him, yeah. But I think that 25% isn't meant to say 'polls give him a 25% chance'. It's more like 'polling itself is kind of fuzzy'

I mean, don't take my word for it. I'll quote from his website:

"Now-cast. Who would win an election today. Chance of winning: Donald Trump, 24.4%."

He's welcome to spin that however he wants elsewhere to maintain credibility. But this is what his website claims and it's what people link to. And I'm sure his model will become much, much more certain as we get to November so he can claim victory. But there's simply no chance that Trump would win if the election were held today. Period. He's not winning in any polls in any of the dozen or so states that could put Clinton over the electoral edge. Silver can claim that individual polls can tell us about how public perceptions are shifting, but that notion was itself rejected by Silver's own words from 2008. He's a hack.
posted by one_bean at 10:13 PM on September 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Everybody I know who is publicly Jewish online right now runs the real risk of being made a target for explicitly and sadistically antisemitic harassment, and I have never seen that before.

I can attest to this. I'm Jewish, and a couple months ago, I tweeted that I wondered if Donald Trump realized his son-in-law, daughter, and grandchildren are Jewish. (It was in response to a news story, I think.) You should see some of the anti-Semitic replies I got on that one - including multiple suggestions that I needed to take a one-way trip into the ovens. There was some scary stuff!
posted by SisterHavana at 10:14 PM on September 1, 2016 [16 favorites]

Is there some weird left-wing wackiness going around about bees?

I've been saying from the beginning that wicker men don't do squat.
posted by um at 10:41 PM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clinton is Brienne.

Oh Gods of Metafilter, hear this my supplication in our hour of need.

Once I got the idea I couldn't resist, and it turns out Hillienne of New Tarth is surprisingly awesome.

One | Two | Three

I'm not the best computer graphics person, but I'm pretty proud of these!!
posted by Deoridhe at 10:47 PM on September 1, 2016 [73 favorites]

I'm not the best computer graphics person, but I'm pretty proud of these!!

Oh my god. That last one has killed me dead.

*applauds*
posted by Salieri at 11:39 PM on September 1, 2016 [13 favorites]

So, i just removed ONTD-Politic as l from my LJ feed; at this point it just regurgitates anti-Clinton propaganda from a Leftist stance. I don't have either the time or energy to follow my impulse to argue their talking points.

It all makes me depressed and pessimistic about the future. She's being attacked by people on the Right AND Left, who personally hate her and want her to fail. I see the optomism here and wonder if we're just fooling ourselves.
posted by happyroach at 12:20 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

OH MY GOD, TIM KAINE IS SO PODRIC!!!
posted by threeturtles at 12:25 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Are most readers of ONTD even old enough to vote?
posted by Justinian at 12:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

No, we're not fooling ourselves! I refuse to believe it. My optimism is still optimizing! In fact, tonight, because of this Metafilter thread, I bought cheap, delicious tacos for dinner, and fantasized about a future where there would be a taco truck on every corner. Viva Hillary! Viva Metafilter!
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 12:35 AM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

Now-cast. Who would win an election today. Chance of winning: Donald Trump, 24.4%."

But there's simply no chance that Trump would win if the election were held today. Period. He's not winning in any polls in any of the dozen or so states that could put Clinton over the electoral edge

But polls have margins of error, often plus or minus 4% or so. So, what are the chances that some polls are off by just 1% or 2% in enough states (maybe five or six of them?) to barely tip them and thus the electoral college? But then you have to take into account the number of different ways in which this could happen. What if it's these five states that are off? What if it's these five other states?

I'm pretty confident Silver understands stats, and that the Nowcast is the least questionable of his models, because all he is doing us carefully adding up the uncertainties on the individual polls to tell you the uncertainty on the final result. He's explcitly not making a prediction about the future, but telling us about the uncertainty in the data we have right now, using well understood mathematical priciples.

And indeed when Clinton was ahead in the polls nationally by 8%, the Nowcast said there was only a five percent likelihood that enough polls were wrong by enough for Trump to be actually leading by a tiny amount, and pollsters to have missed that by not talking to enough people.

However, her national lead is down to about 4% now, which makes that scenario more plausible.

The point of the "don't assume the electoral college will save Clinton" article was "As goes the nation, so go the swing states." In other words, when Clinton's lead tightens nationally, it also tightens in the swing states (kind of by the nature of "swing states") So then it starts to be within-the-margin-of-error on the polls in critical states, and the chances that it's wrong by enough in enough states for Trump to barely eek out a win have gone up... and now stand at 25% instead of 5% back when she had beyond-the-margin-of-error leads in more places.

Tl;dr, it's not "the polls are tight nationally but she's leading un the swing states so she can't lose." It's "when the polls are tight nationally there's a decent chance she's actually not leading in the swing states because polls aren't perfect."
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:49 AM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

I find the parallels between the left vs. liberal situation there and the one in the US really fascinating.

The really interesting part to me is that Corbyn seems to be everything his supporters claim Sanders is (no you aren't a Washington outsider if you've been chair of one committee and are minority leader of another) and the Labour Party NEC really is trying hard to rig the ballot against him by changing the rules of the contest after it has started and by purging voter rolls while his opponent is an empty suit of a corporate insider who has broken ranks with his party once in his entire time in the commons and whose previous job was as a drug company lobbyist.
posted by Francis at 2:13 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Guys I woke up this morning and scrolled through Twitter like usual and was super confused about this "taco trucks on every corner" thing:

"Jeez what have Trump's supporters said now..."
"'Taco trucks on every corner'? Sounds pretty good, is this guy saying Trump is going to give Mexicans jobs through entrepreneurship? Using taco trucks as an example is kind of racist, but I like taco trucks hmmm..."
"Wait a minute, he's actually using this as an example of a bad thing? But... but... tacos!"
posted by like_neon at 2:18 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

Damnit, like_neon, now I want tacos again
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 2:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

It dawns on me that this year's Republican party has shifted slightly from "fuck you, I've got mine" to the more threatening "fuck you, you'll get yours ."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [102 favorites]

I'm not the best computer graphics person, but I'm pretty proud of these!!

These election threads--and specifically the awesome, talented, very smart, funny people in these election threads--are the absolute best. What would I be doing without you all??? (Other than like, having the extra time to clean my house and such.)

the concept of Kaine as Podric is making me laugh/cringe at the thought of Kaine being some secret sex god
posted by sallybrown at 4:36 AM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

Guys I woke up this morning and scrolled through Twitter like usual and was super confused about this "taco trucks on every corner" thing

I'm sorry you had to go through that but maybe next time you'll be smart and catch up on the Metafilter thread first before doing something silly like wandering unwarily into the twitters.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:42 AM on September 2, 2016 [25 favorites]

another note from door-to-door campaigning for anyone worried - most of the discussions I had were very short - people are busy, people are dealing with keeping kids and dogs away from the open door (you're not supposed to enter anyone's homes if invited, for safety reasons), people are shy or don't have a lot of interest in a prolonged discussion with strangers at their door (especially two also-shy newbie volunteer young ladies), and we had language barriers with a few of the people we talked to (we weren't able to speak their primary language well and same with them).
posted by sallybrown at 4:45 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Do you think maybe Trump's afraid of "taco trucks on every corner" because maybe he only trusts the "taco bowls at Trump Tower?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:54 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, Hillary does carry hot sauce with her, so this whole taco thing should be a day one priority.

Look, Americans, you're getting something on Day One. Either deportations or tacos. Your choice.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:19 AM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]

Passing on the chance to disavow the prior “softening” narrative, Trump insisted instead, "Oh, there’s softening. Look, we do it in a very humane way, and we’re going to see with the people that are in the country. ...

Translation: "My original intention was to kick them immigants out of the country in an inhumane and cruel way. So getting rid of them in a humane way is a softening, innit?"

I have no idea what the second half of the sentence ("... we’re going to see with the people that are in the country...") might possibly mean. We're going to see if they let us kick them out? We're going to see if we can do it humanely? Help, anyone?
posted by sour cream at 5:21 AM on September 2, 2016

He's a hack.

Nate Silver is very explicit about what his models do, what they're based on, and how they work. He also has forgotten more about statistics than most of us will ever know. Calling him "a hack" because you don't agree with what his work is showing right now is about as sensible as denying global warming because someone bought a snowball to the senate floor. Your claim that Trump could not win today is not based on any certainty in the polls; it's based on your gut feeling, and your gut is not a scientist.
posted by phooky at 5:21 AM on September 2, 2016 [24 favorites]

Am I the only person who hears Trump talk about doing something to others in "a very humane way" and can't help but feel like he's talking about putting them down like you would an animal?
posted by tocts at 5:29 AM on September 2, 2016 [27 favorites]

His job is not to make democrats feel better.

It's to sell pageviews.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

> Am I the only person who hears Trump talk about doing something to others in "a very humane way"

It's the kind of phrase a restaurant uses in their menu description when they're trying to assure you the cows did not suffer in their transformation from whole animal into delicious cheeseburger.
posted by Tevin at 5:32 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

His job is not to make democrats feel better.

It's to sell pageviews.

Agreed, to a point. A man I know who works in the medical billing business is very fond of telling his client doctors "you do medicine as a public service, but you do documentation to get paid."

I'm sure the same basic situation exists for Nate Silver, where he provides the best information he can, but necessarily frames it for maximum page view impact.
posted by Mooski at 5:37 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

It's to sell pageviews.

Indeed. Over time Nate Silver has morphed from one of the very few people using good statistics to predict the Presidential race to a pundit with some statistical backing. He's messed up fairly seriously by being a pundit over a statistician a few times - first over Climate Change and then by ignoring the data saying Trump was a strong contender as Republican nominee.

When he sticks to the data he's still good but he's been corrupted by the lure of punditry.
posted by Francis at 5:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump just tweeted, "People will be very surprised by our ground game on Nov. 8. We have an army of volunteers and people with GREAT SPIRIT! They want to #MAGA!"

I'm afraid this is true. I've been intending to write letters to officials warning about the possibility of a Trump "ground game" with "GREAT SPIRIT" on Election Day, and the need to protect voters from it, but I'm not sure who I should write to or whether to bother.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:41 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just heard that crazy and very dumb @morningmika had a mental breakdown while talking about me on the low ratings @Morning_Joe. Joe a mess!

Make this man President and get him the nuclear codes!
posted by chris24 at 5:42 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Mika, like a lot of us, has just fucking HAD IT with Trump. (I've noticed a lot of short fuses at work and with friends lately...) Joe did kind of have a weird meltdown yesterday or the day before centered around mocking an old Obama speech. I think he's in some turmoil over his perception of what's happening to the Republican Party. That and his rock aspirations has him in a bit of a teenage existentialist mood. (Which is also annoying Mika.)
posted by sallybrown at 5:46 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Morning Joe also played a really effective Joe Biden clip this morning--a refinement of his point in his DNC Convention speech about how there's nothing noble about Donald's bragging about firing people. I hope that's the center of a campaign ad to come, because it's an excellent point and strikes at the very heart of Trump's public image: what kind of a person enjoys firing someone? Who out there hasn't been fired or sat around a table with a parent or partner or friend worrying about what will happen after they've been fired?
posted by sallybrown at 5:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Countess Elena, a "Trump 'ground game' with 'GREAT SPIRIT' on Election Day" sounds very Mao-ist.

We've all been warned of the purges to come should Trump win, but I think that only Max Sparber among all MeFites has been properly preparing with the appropriate headgear. All he needs is a little star pin and a dunking in some green Rit dye to have safe passage after The Fall.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:56 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

It just occurred to me, thanks to Biden, how utterly miserable it would be having Trump as your boss - from line manager up .

That would be a message that would resonate. Who hasn't had a really shitty boss, and who couldn't see that in Trump? "And you want him to be the CEO of the whole country?".
posted by Devonian at 5:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

How do you become “white” in America?

Trump does not offer a coherent view of white identity, but instead heavily emphasizes threats to America from non-white people. Ethnic groups like Mexicans are characterized as “rapists”; religious groups like Muslims are designated “terrorists”, and white supremacist groups have embraced these characterizations. Trump’s emphasis on “the other” allows white people who do not fit into these categories to bond over a perceived common enemy.

Quite a treasure trove from the author on her page.
posted by klarck at 5:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

> But she hasn't held a press conference in ages! She's practically a recluse! [sarcasm]

[BREAKING] DAILY BUGLE: "Unnamed Oscorp source says menace Spider-Clinton may have Recluse RNA in addition to previously suspected Widow RNA splicing, eight limbs more efficient for sending & deleting emails. In related news, Cloneghazi investigations continue." [fake]

> Standard reality show mechanics.

Hey Marvel, how are the Advanced Reality Show Mechanics not a thing? You already have M.O.D.A.A.K. (the Mental Organism Designed As America's King).
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 5:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

OH MY GOD, TIM KAINE IS SO PODRIC!!!

Egg McMuffin is Hot Pie, obvs - a minor character that was good for a laugh or two whose real name nobody remembers.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:09 AM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

Make this man President and get him the nuclear codes!

"Crazy," "dumb," and "mental breakdown." Nope, not gendered language that he's used against other women in media at all. No sireebob.

But she hasn't held a press conference in ages! She's practically a recluse! [sarcasm]

It's true, if you don't count African-American and Latin@ journalists, as CNN's Dylan Byers apparently does.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:11 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

He can use what he wants to do what he wants with his hair.

This finding is not in evidence – that it is his (or indeed, hair).
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:13 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

So who's Gendry in the rowboat?
posted by Roommate at 6:15 AM on September 2, 2016

The moderators are out for the debates. "Lester Holt, Elaine Quijano, Anderson Cooper, Martha Raddatz, Chris Wallace moderating this fall's debates"
posted by cashman at 6:18 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

Ooooh YESSSSSSSS. I call that a slam dunk.
posted by sallybrown at 6:21 AM on September 2, 2016

Here is the official announcement from the Commission on Presidential Debates.

First presidential debate:
Lester Holt, Anchor, NBC Nightly News Monday, September 26, Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY

Vice presidential debate:
Elaine Quijano, Anchor, CBSN and Correspondent, CBS News Tuesday, October 4, Longwood University, Farmville, VA

Second presidential debate (town meeting):
Martha Raddatz, Chief Global Affairs Correspondent and Co-Anchor of "This Week," ABC
Anderson Cooper, Anchor, CNN Sunday, October 9, Washington University in St. Louis, St. Louis, MO

Third presidential debate:
Chris Wallace, Anchor, Fox News Sunday Wednesday, October 19, University of Nevada, Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

The CPD also announced that Steve Scully, Senior Executive Producer, White House and Political Editor for C-SPAN Networks, will serve as backup moderator for all the debates.

Fahrenkopf and McCurry said that, "These journalists bring extensive experience to the job of moderating, and understand the importance of using expanded time periods effectively. The formats chosen for this year's debates are designed to build on the formats introduced in 2012, which focused big blocks of time on major domestic and foreign topics. We are grateful for their willingness to moderate, and confident that the public will learn more about the candidates and the issues as a result."

The format for the first debate:

First presidential debate

The debate will be divided into six time segments of approximately 15 minutes each on major topics to be selected by the moderator and announced at least one week before the debate.

The moderator will open each segment with a question, after which each candidate will have two minutes to respond. Candidates will then have an opportunity to respond to each other. The moderator will use the balance of the time in the segment for a deeper discussion of the topic.

The format for the other debates is described at the link.
posted by cashman at 6:24 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

OK, here's the part of Nate Silver's methodology which I give the side-eye to: pretty much every poll has suggested Clinton is favored in OH, FL, and PA. There is no path to victory for Trump that doesn't include those three states. Let's "unskew" the polls and suppose all three are tossups. The advantage of doing that (from a back-of-the-envelope calculation standpoint) is that, if they're authentic tossups, then the probabilities each falls either way are essentially independent (and exactly 50%). So a Trump victory in such a (redder-than-reality) scenario is 1/2×1/2×1/2=12.5%, which is lower than anything Nate Silver is predicting. And that's assuming the polls are significantly off to begin with! If we presume polls have predictive power, then surely those three states are not quite tossups, and even if the probabilities aren't independent (which they aren't—if there's a methodological flaw in the polls or a shift in public perception, it'll probably affect multiple states) the aggregate probability should be at most 12%.

I mean yes, if you add in low-probability scenarios like "Clinton loses Wisconsin" you manybe push those numbers around, but, again, we're not looking at independent events here: for WI to flip there'd need to be a fundamental future shift in the electorate or a flaw in the polls so extraordinary that we're assuming the predictive power of polls is nil. I suppose Nate Silver might assign that event some high probability but if so, how was he ever giving Hillary 90% confidence, if he didn't have 90% confidence in the polls' predictive power?
posted by jackbishop at 6:25 AM on September 2, 2016

Okay, I'm here visiting London - John Cleese is literally sitting two tables away from me right now eating lunch - and I'm still checking this thread. I may have withdrawal come Nov 9.
posted by chris24 at 6:28 AM on September 2, 2016 [55 favorites]

So... Which of the debates will he skip? I'm thinking minimum one.
posted by Artw at 6:28 AM on September 2, 2016

we need a John Cleese guest comment!

I do so want to go up and ask "Quick thought on Trump, Mr. Cleese?" Just for the priceless expression.
posted by chris24 at 6:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

The advantage of doing that (from a back-of-the-envelope calculation standpoint) is that, if they're authentic tossups, then the probabilities each falls either way are essentially independent (and exactly 50%). So a Trump victory in such a (redder-than-reality) scenario is 1/2×1/2×1/2=12.5%, which is lower than anything Nate Silver is predicting.

My understanding is that the 538 model doesn't assume the state-by-state probabilities are independent.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:32 AM on September 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

Trump just tweeted, "People will be very surprised by our ground game on Nov. 8. We have an army of volunteers and people with GREAT SPIRIT! They want to #MAGA!"

That's not great spirit. It's just leftover Trump Vodka he couldn't sell.
posted by Francis at 6:34 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

"Excuse me, Mr. Cleese but I spend way too much of my time talking about the American election on a web discussion site. We are all pretty horrified at the Trump campaign. I foolishly just told them you were in this cafe and they are insisting I ask you about the election."

withering British insult of us all
posted by R343L at 6:36 AM on September 2, 2016 [32 favorites]

Trump doesn't have a ground game at the moment and the dumpster fire is still polling in the low 40s.

Even if he loses he must be pretty smug about spending next to nothing and just going on TV to stay within a couple of points.
posted by Talez at 6:36 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

There are zero straight white Gentile men moderating the debates.

Cueing up the crocodile tears in five... four...
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [14 favorites]

Just quietly tell him you're a big fan as you pass by or maybe just give him a note. If he wants to engage with you more than that, ask him for a comment to audience that thinks Trump is the worst.

Some celebrities can spend their day like normal people until someone draws attention to them. I have it on good authority that David Chappelle rides the city bus in Washington D.C. but refuses to take pictures with fans because, "Once [he] gets recognized, it ruins [his] whole day."
posted by VTX at 6:41 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

BTW my comment was not intended to encourage bothering Cleese. More of a fan fantasy so that we all can leave him be.
posted by R343L at 6:42 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

My understanding is that the 538 model doesn't assume the state-by-state probabilities are independent.

The comment you're responding to got there two sentences later:

If we presume polls have predictive power, then surely those three states are not quite tossups, and even if the probabilities aren't independent (which they aren't—if there's a methodological flaw in the polls or a shift in public perception, it'll probably affect multiple states) the aggregate probability should be at most 12%.

I guess it could get as high as 40% if all three states are 60-40 and perfectly correlated, but even so 25% seems pretty high.
posted by dfan at 6:43 AM on September 2, 2016

My understanding is that the 538 model doesn't assume the state-by-state probabilities are independent.

Of course not, and they aren't. But if we look at a Trumpier-than-reality scenario where all three are in an actual dead heat among voters, they become functionally independent, because each ends up completely dependent on vagaries of voter turnout, ballot spoilage, etc.

So the "all three are independent and 50-50" scenario is actually far more generous to Trump than the real world is. I mean, yes, you can add to the Trump probability with the nonindependent "all the polls are wrong and Trump is actually going to take states which have consistently polled with a Clinton lead" factor, but that's what I alluded to at the end with my "predictive power is nil" consideration.

(Also, if you consider a "polls have no predictive power" case, surely part of the event space for that particular presumption is that Clinton is doing much better than the polls indicate)
posted by jackbishop at 6:43 AM on September 2, 2016

So the update on Scripted Trump's Script for his private interview with no media present, is that Trump is now going to talk to a congregation for 5 to 10 minutes.

This guy is pathetic. He's apparently scared to death of black people. He's seriously clueless. Which is a good thing, because if he wasn't, he could make it work. But the more he hems and haws and closes off this appearance and gets scripts, and changes things, the more it's clear he's just woefully out of touch. I mean based on his speeches about the plight of black people in this country it's clear he may have gotten most of his opinion from things he's watched on television, but it's almost painful watching someone screw this up this badly. Almost, but not quite.
posted by cashman at 6:44 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

One of the other big things holding down Clinton in the 538 models is the large third-party vote. They have Johnson with 7.5% right now, which is keeping Clinton under 50% overall. If those voters move, it's a big potential swing that's not as easy to model. It's a source for new voters to flow to one candidate without coming from the other one.

It's one thing to be up 53-47. It's another thing to be up 48-43-8.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:48 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

jackbishop:

So a Trump victory in such a (redder-than-reality) scenario is 1/2×1/2×1/2=12.5%, which is lower than anything Nate Silver is predicting. And that's assuming the polls are significantly off to begin with! If we presume polls have predictive power, then surely those three states are not quite tossups,

538's polls-plus model assumes that the polls will tighten as Election Day approaches, which is what usually happens.

and even if the probabilities aren't independent (which they aren't—if there's a methodological flaw in the polls or a shift in public perception, it'll probably affect multiple states)

538's model accounts for this. It's discussed in a recent episode of their elections podcast (the episode is titled "Forecast Update - Correlated States", from 8/26, although for some reason it's not listed on the page I just linked - you should be able to find it in your favorite podcast app). In fact, this episode is the second of a new series of special episodes, published every other Friday, explaining how their models work, and answering questions and criticisms such as yours.

Nate Silver is by no means infallible, and it's totally fair to criticize specific aspects of his methodology. However, it's probably better to understand what that methodology is before just multiplying a few numbers together and announcing that you've outsmarted a professional statistician.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:51 AM on September 2, 2016 [26 favorites]

Cleese made a remark in 2008 on Michael no longer being the funniest Palin.
posted by farlukar at 6:53 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

There are zero straight white Gentile men moderating the debates.

Chris Wallace is Jewish? TIL.

I hope he presses Trump on the anti-Semitic stuff that he and his children pass around/retweet. Well, I hope all of them do, but I'd especially like to see him squirm in front of a member of the tribe.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:53 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

So who's Gendry in the rowboat?

Jeb! Bush, obviously.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:57 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm a professional statistician and I strongly prefer PEC to 538, FWIW.
posted by palindromic at 7:01 AM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]

Chris Wallace is Jewish? TIL.

Yeah I just learned that as well, thanks Wikipedia!
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:02 AM on September 2, 2016

stolyarova: the TRUMP METEOR is coming and it's the best, biggest meteor, believe me

Namlit: "believe me," is also something You Know Who was saying a gazillion times during last night's speech.

palindromic: " 'No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.' I think a great lesson for any kid. But then he followed up with: 'Don't. Trust. Anyone. Ever.' And, you know, he'd follow it up two seconds later with, 'So, do you trust me?' I'd say, 'Of course, you're my dad.' He'd say, 'What did I just—' You know, he thought I was a total failure. He goes, 'My son's a loser, I guess.' "

"Believe me" is something of the unofficial slogan of Donny's campaign, but he's also the guy who told his 4 year old son 'Don't. Trust. Anyone. Ever.' I'll stick with not believing him.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:06 AM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

I take solace in the fact that 538 and PEC disagree about how high Clinton's chances of winning are, not that they're very good.

Don't worry so much about a single organization, when nearly all of the decent analysts agree about something, the certainty that they're right goes up.

I'll worry about which one I prefer if and when they totally disagree about the outcome, rather than the prediction methodology.
posted by VTX at 7:07 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

One of the other big things holding down Clinton in the 538 models is the large third-party vote. They have Johnson with 7.5% right now, which is keeping Clinton under 50% overall.

But how many of those Johnson voters are Republicans giving the thumbs-down/middle-fingers-up to Trump? I don't see why any of Johnson's policies would be an appealing alternative to Democratic voters who aren't jazzed about Clinton.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:07 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Honestly, regardless of accuracy, if seeing Trump with a 30% chance of winning keeps people from becoming complacent and gets them out to the polls, then I am not about to complain.

Also, Nate's sniping at Trump on Twitter warms my cold, gay heart.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:09 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

Wikipedia also says he is a Democrat.

dammit this will teach me to vomit forth the hottest of takes

haha just kidding I'll never learn
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:11 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think it's half statisticians.

What's the margin of error on that though
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:14 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

One of the other big things holding down Clinton in the 538 models is the large third-party vote. They have Johnson with 7.5% right now, which is keeping Clinton under 50% overall. If those voters move, it's a big potential swing that's not as easy to model.

Just look at the two party polls. If those voters break, they'll mostly head Clinton's way.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:18 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

The New York Times’ latest Clinton Foundation “scandal” may be the dumbest one yet

It’s common at this point in the Clinton Foundation pseudo-scandal cycle for the person in my position to point out that there’s no quid pro quo and no evidence of wrongdoing, and then for the skeptics to say that corruption can take more insidious forms than a quid pro quo. But honestly, what questions does this raise?

It certainly doesn’t raise the question of whether Clinton Foundation staff got special access to passports from the State Department. It answers the question. They didn’t, as the story says.

Nor does this raise any questions about conflicts of interest with donors or use of foundation resources for private gain. Bill Clinton was doing a little statesman-like work. His staff hoped that, in light of his close personal ties to the secretary of state, he could do that work with official diplomatic credentials. They were told no.

There is no scandal. There is no question. There’s only the presumption of guilt and the Clinton Rules.

posted by tonycpsu at 7:18 AM on September 2, 2016 [31 favorites]

I'm sure we all remember how those Nader 3% totally came home to Al Gore, so...
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:22 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

stolyarova: For those of you who want something beautiful, Garrison Keillor has written a magnificent takedown of Donnie.

OmieWise: That Garrison Keillor piece is really good. I actually felt bad for Donnie at the end.

chaoticgood: Minnesota Nice.

The cap does not look good on you, it's a duffer's cap, and when you come to the microphone, you look like the warm-up guy, the guy who announces the license number of the car left in the parking lot, doors locked, lights on, motor running. The brim shadows your face, which gives a sinister look, as if you'd come to town to announce the closing of the pulp factory. Your eyes look dead and your scowl does not suggest American greatness so much as American indigestion. Your hair is the wrong color: People don't want a president to be that shade of blond. You know that now.

That's just the opening paragraph. Minnesota mean, which soothes this liberal soul, and was a surprise from Keillor, but wont' sway anyone.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

The New York Times’ latest Clinton Foundation “scandal” may be the dumbest one yet

Could you imagine if Trump did something like this? But instead of a nothingburger it was actual pay-for-play with a high-ranking GOP official that resulted in him getting out of criminal or civil charges? I bet it would make the headlines of most newspapers and be the lead story on all the networks, right?

What's that you say? He actually did that and has to pay a fine? It didn't even make it to the front page in most papers and got almost zero coverage? But-but the liberal media!
posted by zombieflanders at 7:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [53 favorites]

Honestly I don't understand PEC's methodology yet. Their version of the NowCast says "At nearly all times, this snapshot shows a very likely win for one candidate or the other. The Princeton Election Consortium does not report this probability, which is usually greater than 99%."

Trying to understand PEC's model, I ended up at this page where Sam Wang gets into a Twitter fight with Nate Silver, from 2014. Silver says "Problem with overconfident models: Yesterday, Sam Wang's snapshot had Begich as a 99% favorite in Alaska. Today it gives him a 23% chance." Wang's response is "Of course these daily outcomes fluctuate – as they should." But that seems counter-intuitive to me. I mean, yes, they should fluctuate more than the predictive models, and for sure the FiveThirtyEight NowCast (which should be an apples-to-apples comparison with Wang's "snapshot") also fluctuates a lot more than its "polls only" or "polls plus" models, but if your "NowCast" is "usually greater than 99%" does that mean that when the polls are close and even trading off, you're switching from a 99% probability that Clinton would win on one day to a 99% probability that Trump would win on the next day? Wouldn't it make more sense for your NowCast/Snapshot to report odds closer to 50% when the polls are relatively close?

Since I posted my earlier comment I tried to dig into both a little more to understand the differences, and I think I'm getting the impression that FiveThirtyEight actually assigns larger error probabilities to the polls than a purely sample-size-based margin of error would suggest. They say "When we say a candidate has a 30 percent chance of winning despite being down in the polls, we’re not just covering our butts. Those estimates reflect the historical uncertainty in polling."

"Historical uncertainty" is a different thing than just pure sample size "margin of error," and maybe larger? So maybe that accounts for the difference in their "NowCasts"? Those should really

The other relevant points from that explanation of FiveThirtyEight methodology are, yes "Errors are correlated. But while the election is contested at the state level, the error is correlated from state to state. If a candidate beats his polls to win Ohio, there’s a good chance he’ll also do so in Pennsylvania." And "It’s mostly the same model as the one we used to successfully forecast the 2008 and 2012 elections."
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

As Team Clinton talks up potential landslide, please remember that this is the defining clip of the 2016 election
posted by Roommate at 7:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [25 favorites]

Team Clinton is incapable of saying "landslide." Tim has been repeating "you're an underdog until you're a winner" on the campaign trail.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 AM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

"Don't trust anyone ever" is a terrible thing to teach a child! Even when I have trusted people and they have not lived up to that trust, I have no regrets.
posted by thelonius at 7:47 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

As Team Clinton talks up potential landslide,

I have not seen this happening. Is this a thing that is happening? Because it really does not seem like this is a thing that is happening.
posted by dersins at 7:50 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

There was an article in Politico that said paid consultants are telling Clinton to prep for a landslide. Which given her experience slogging through every single thing, I doubt she is doing.
posted by zutalors! at 7:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

I did not and would not bother Mr. Cleese. Even for a MeFi election thread.
posted by chris24 at 7:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

That Bullshitico headline is clickbaity, when the meat of the piece is that the Clinton campaign has multiple options to focus on clusters of states that will deliver 270 EVs, and enough money and staff to not have to choose between those options for the moment, which preserves the possibility of winning more of them. That's the opposite of complacency: it's competing hard for every EV that's within reach.
posted by holgate at 7:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [18 favorites]

Two fun things to read this morning:

NYMag: The Revenge of Roger's Angels
"How Fox News women took down the most powerful, and predatory, man in media."

Which is a gripping read about Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch and the horrifyingly toxic atmosphere at FOX News.

And

NYTimes Mag: Tuesdays with Reince, Episode 2: The San Francisco Affair which is ongoing series where Mark Leibovich calls Reince Priebus to talk about what is happening in the world of the RNC. It is rather casual and personal.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:54 AM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

Polls are very unnecessary. They can only do harm.

If you care about the election, you should be doing everything you can to make it go your way. That shouldn't be dependent on polls. If you're making whatever effort you can, that's good. If you're not, that's bad. That equation does not include a polling factor. The numbers can make your complacent or despairing, both of which will hurt your motivation, but they can't really help it - that should come from elsewhere.

(This doesn't apply if you're a strategist managing resources and focus for a campaign, when you better watch those numbers and know what they mean, but we're not those people.)
posted by Devonian at 7:55 AM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

How Republicans Campaign With Donald Trump Leading Ticket | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Leads off with a couple great Biden clips, including one that puts the "silver spoon" remark into context.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:58 AM on September 2, 2016

Which given her experience slogging through every single thing, I doubt she is doing.

More likely she is preparing for every reasonably possible outcome and probably some less possible ones just be safe.

As much as we wring our hands around here about not getting complacent, I haven't seen a sign that the Clinton campaign has been bringing or intends to do anything other than bring their A-game regardless of what Trump or anyone else does.
posted by VTX at 7:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

I think Wang does a good job of getting into some of the conceptual differences between the 538 model and his in this post about why the PEC forecast is so stable. I'm not sure it matters what his "nowcast" says because he doesn't think it matters to his forecast.
posted by OmieWise at 7:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

e.g. Trump's scheduled for NC on Tuesday while Pence is in MO, both 2012 red states. Clinton doesn't need to win either of them.

(And neither Trump nor Pence has anything down for Labor Day, which the Clinton campaign is clearly heralding as the start of the real campaign, including allowing the travelling press corps to ride on the campaign plane.)
posted by holgate at 8:00 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

And neither Trump nor Pence has anything down for Labor Day

They're really more Capital Day kinda guys.
posted by dersins at 8:02 AM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

Donald Trump volunteers are signing a lifelong contract never to criticize him
posted by tonycpsu at 8:02 AM on September 2, 2016 [55 favorites]

Christing fuck. I didn't have to sign anything even near that onerous to be an actual employee of the Obama campaign.

Volunteers signed literally nothing except the attendance sheets for events, and maybe a nonbinding pledge of support--but only if they felt like it.

This is insane. Good luck with that ground game, guys.
posted by dersins at 8:08 AM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]

He obviously doesn't trust those losers, so he's no loser, even if he loses. Now who's the loser, loser?
posted by palindromic at 8:08 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Devonian: It just occurred to me, thanks to Biden, how utterly miserable it would be having Trump as your boss - from line manager up .

That would be a message that would resonate. Who hasn't had a really shitty boss, and who couldn't see that in Trump? "And you want him to be the CEO of the whole country?".

Except just like poor conservatives who vote against their self-interest because some day they could be rich, Donnie fans like Donny because he could be their friend and they'd fire the jerks and bad people together.

It feels similar to people who liked Dubya because "he's someone I could see as a drinking buddy." I don't want a president who is my intellectual equal and a pal, but someone who is smarter and more worldly than I am, because I would not make a good president.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:09 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

But polls have margins of error, often plus or minus 4% or so. So, what are the chances that some polls are off by just 1% or 2% in enough states (maybe five or six of them?) to barely tip them and thus the electoral college? But then you have to take into account the number of different ways in which this could happen. What if it's these five states that are off? What if it's these five other states?

I'm pretty confident Silver understands stats, and that the Nowcast is the least questionable of his models, because all he is doing us carefully adding up the uncertainties on the individual polls to tell you the uncertainty on the final result. He's explcitly not making a prediction about the future, but telling us about the uncertainty in the data we have right now, using well understood mathematical priciples...

Statistical models of future social behavioral events based on prior ones yield probabilities, not certainties. If you don't like that don't read social statisticians' work. You do not know who would win if the election were held today. No one does.

Here's the thing, and then I'll let it drop. Nate Silver is taking advantage of people who have taken an introductory stats class and who "know" that polls have margins of error and that means polls are messy or they can be wrong or whatever. That is absolutely true with individual polls, and it's what poblano's entire run in 2008 was premised on (I was reading him then, too). What is NOT true is the idea that if one poll is messy, ten polls are ten times as messy. It's exactly the opposite.

The more polls you can combine, the less noise you have. If you take ten polls, each with 2,500 participants, suddenly you've sampled 25,000 people. But in our case it's actually better than that because the ten polls are conducted independently. But how do you go about combining multiple polls to get a snapshot of what's really happening? There are statistical techniques to do so. It's a field that was developed mostly by medical folks because they wanted to combine multiple studies on the same treatment. If you really want the nitty gritty on this, you can go download Sam Wang's code because he does it correctly. And as somebody pointed out up thread, Wang's version of the Nowcast almost always has one or the other candidate winning. Because when you draw on hundreds of polls, those polls (historically, in the elections that Silver and Wang have been doing this) very accurately describe the state of the electorate right now.

That's what's happening today. We can't predict the future. That's where the noise comes in. There are going to be events that we simply can't build into a model. But we have a shitton of data right now, and all of that data strongly shows that Clinton would win if the election were held today. I don't want to pull rank here, but I do this stuff for a living. I have taught graduate level classes on the techniques that Sam Wang uses correctly and Nate Silver has stopped using in his Nowcast. I'm trying to tell you that what he is doing is relying on his professional reputation to come up with a bullshit metric to pretend like Trump, right now, is doing far, far better than he actually is.

Statistics are a magic trick. We use them to claim or know things that are seemingly unknowable. How could we possibly predict how millions of people are going to vote by just calling a few thousand, anyway? Well, like most magic tricks, if you know how it works, the magic wears off. And whatever Nate Silver is doing with the Nowcast is a lie. He's a good statistician, which makes it worse. It means he knows what he's doing - and what he's doing is juking the numbers in the Nowcast so that people will visit every day and watch the little numbers go up and down. And it won't matter in the end because, like I said, he will tighten that uncertainty in the Nowcast so that by Election Day, Clinton's probability will be close to 100 and everyone will give three cheers to Nate Silver for being better than the rest of the MSM. And Sam Wang will go on being a talented neuroscientist.
posted by one_bean at 8:09 AM on September 2, 2016 [36 favorites]

I'm not sure it matters what his "nowcast" says because he doesn't think it matters to his forecast.

But the post you link says that both FiveThirtyEight and PEC use a model that "Estimates an uncertainty of our knowledge of the current state" and then "Projects that that current state of the race will drift away from its current state in some Brownian-motion like process."

But here is the PEC's histogram capturing the current state and the uncertainty in it...

And you can see what should be the exact same graph on FiveThirtyEight here under the heading "What to expect from the Electoral College."

Those histograms are based on the same polling data, yet the probability distribution for "number of possible Clinton electoral votes" is much, much wider on FiveThirtyEight's version.

Since FiveThirtyEight assumes a lot more uncertainty on the "current state" of the election, it's no surprise that they end up with more uncertainty in their forecast too. But since it should be pretty straightforward (if tedious) to come up with those histograms showing what would happen today based on current polling data, why are they so different?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:11 AM on September 2, 2016

> Donald Trump volunteers are signing a lifelong contract never to criticize him.

Are we certain Trump doesn't have a sekrit Sea Org and Freewinds equivalent?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:11 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

So, I looked at the non-disclosure agreement and I'm wondering if they just modified his standard non-disclosure agreement and are having everyone sign it, because that's just how he rolls (deep paranoia and control), or because they don't understand that's not how volunteering works, or...I'm trying to apply Trump's Razor here. I guess I already understood that he does his best to keep a tight lid on anything former employees or partners have to say about him, but yet I felt like the language was very revealing.
posted by dawg-proud at 8:15 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

This is insane. Good luck with that ground game, guys.

The stuff about preventing volunteers' employees from supporting Clinton or saying rude things about Trump is astonishing, an insight into how Trump does business, and I'd love to see that end up in court.

(This is surely copypasta from a TrumpOrg NDA for contractors.)
posted by holgate at 8:15 AM on September 2, 2016 [18 favorites]

During the term of your service and at all times thereafter

At least the Sea Org contracts end after a billion years.
posted by cmfletcher at 8:16 AM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

Nominees owning volunteers souls for 1000 years is perfectly normal.
posted by Artw at 8:17 AM on September 2, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm watching Biden's speech from yesterday and he's talking about the UAW. I just need to interject that the quality of American automobiles and imports has nothing at all to do with American workers.

The big three from Japan (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) build most of the cars they sell in the US right here in the US. They aren't made by UAW employees but they're American workers just the same. They have build both excellent and reliable vehicles as well as terrible ones. In a training class I was in when I sold cars for a living, the trainer (who had an f-ing TON of experience in the car business both from the dealership angle and the manufacturer's) told us that you can see the difference between Honda and GM's manufacturing methods by the fact that GM has acres of space for brand new cars straight off the assembly line that need some manner of repair or correction. Honda has six stalls for the same purpose. The problem with American automobiles is a problem with management and there is maybe an argument to be had that the UAW overreached on some contracts, but it has nothing to do with the quality of the workers themselves.
posted by VTX at 8:18 AM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

Nate Silver doesn't put his code up for public review. I'm a Free software chick, so that irks me and induces me to trust his analysis less.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:19 AM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

Statistics are a magic trick. We use them to claim or know things that are seemingly unknowable. How could we possibly predict how millions of people are going to vote by just calling a few thousand, anyway?

How can we ever truly know anything, right? Guess it's not worth trying.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:22 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Fucking epistemology. How does that work?
posted by dersins at 8:24 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

I don't want a president who is my intellectual equal and a pal, but someone who is smarter and more worldly than I am.

8 years ago, during the first Obama election, my neighbor (not the Trump guy) and I were talking about the candidates. This guy knows what I do and has a fair amount of respect for my work. At one point he said, almost sneering, "Do you think Obama's smarter than you are?" Like he was some naif. I responded that I couldn't get into Harvard, and that he would have to have been fairly smart to have been made editor of the law review.

It was like he was struck by lightning. "Huh. Hadn't thought of it like that..."
posted by Sophie1 at 8:24 AM on September 2, 2016 [35 favorites]

Statistics are a magic trick.

I think you could maybe call polling a magic trick, but statistical analyses are how scientists know whether their hypotheses have been confirmed or refuted.
posted by xyzzy at 8:26 AM on September 2, 2016

But since it should be pretty straightforward (if tedious) to come up with those histograms showing what would happen today based on current polling data, why are they so different?

I think it's because Silver handles the data differently, ie, manipulates it based on his assumptions about the polling firms.
posted by OmieWise at 8:27 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think you could call "Statistics are a magic trick" a sarcastic statement coming from a statistician.
posted by OmieWise at 8:28 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

Statistics are a magic trick.

"Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money..."

OTOH...
posted by mikelieman at 8:29 AM on September 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

Oh, oh, and I meant to say, so how many people will he sue afterwards? Would he try and drag a volunteer into court over a Facebook post? The lawyers will have a field day with that agreement! And now I wonder what will come of the tell-all books I've been promised in lo these many threads of Metafilter, I want the wailing and gnashing. Though law suits, depositions, and the like could be pretty revealing, too.
posted by dawg-proud at 8:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump volunteers are signing a lifelong contract never to criticize him

It's not an NDA, it's an ideological certification.
posted by schoolgirl report at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

Also this:
There is virtually no chance that Trump would win if the election were held today.

is somewhat absurd. There's a small "chance" your plane will crash, so negligible most people don't think about it. But every once in a while a plane does crash, so there's not "no chance."

That's why the "virtually" is used there.

vir·tu·al·ly
ˈvərCH(əw)əlē/
adverb
1. nearly; almost.
posted by zakur at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Donald Trump volunteers are signing a lifelong contract never to criticize him

And there are enough suckers who sign it!
That just shows you what a masterful negotiator he is.
posted by sour cream at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2016

"Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money..."

Or candy.
posted by maxsparber at 8:37 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

At one point he said, almost sneering, "Do you think Obama's smarter than you are?" Like he was some naif. I responded that I couldn't get into Harvard, and that he would have to have been fairly smart to have been made editor of the law review.

It astounds me that somebody who had so much as heard Obama speak would even bring up his intelligence as a shortcoming worthy of criticism. Let alone anyone who was aware of his academic and professional careers. It's not like he'd gotten into an Ivy League school on legacy and cruised through with gentleman's C's, like certain Chief Executives I could name.

Even after 8 years of hearing people's disingenous arguments, I'm still bowled over by how most of the popular right-wing critiques of Obama basically reduce to simple, stupid racism.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:38 AM on September 2, 2016 [37 favorites]

I'm wondering if one of the others reasons Trump hasn't seemed to care much about working on his 'ground game' is because he's so paranoid about people that work for him. Like in his mind it's a dangerous and signals a potential loss of control, hence we have this insane volunteer contract which I'm betting is entirely because it's the only way he would agree to have people volunteer for him and his general lack of motivation to get people to volunteer in the first place.
posted by Jalliah at 8:41 AM on September 2, 2016

Nope, he's going to be convicted by the Holy Spirit and be born again right there in front of everyone.

/cue speaking in tongues

/cue "how could you tell the difference" joke
posted by chonus at 8:42 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

I wonder now if Pence also had to sign the contract? And if he did so, did he even read it?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:44 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

/cue "how could you tell the difference" joke

Real glossolalia is 100% sincere, but Trump doesn't mean more than 50% of what he says.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

fecalalia
posted by ian1977 at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Okay, so I've never really understood the fascination with getting a win probability, instead of actually treating the race as it is. When you watch a sports match, you look at the actual score, and see how ahead or behind your team is. You don't typically try to see the win probability.

Second, this unnecessary portmanteau called a "now-cast" is purely a Nate Silver fixation. Everyone else would call it, I don't know, current combined polling or something. You don't forecast something that's happening now!

Third, forecasts (not necessarily a specific probability) are interesting in that you can think about _ranges_ of outcomes. I like Sam Wang's work precisely for that reason; he has this wriggly worm with headlights, where each point is how the race is currently, and how much space it to wriggle before Nov 6. It's a very straightforward graph, done very simply, through an average (or something) of the last five state polls taken together. No weighing of individual polls, no external factors, no secret sauce voodoo.

I've followed Nate Silver for years, way before he even bought the domain, fivethirtyeight. I think he's gotten bored now, and tends to complicate his once simple explanations with all kinds of unnecessary points. His real talent has always been in explaining qualitative hypotheses with a quantitative explanation. Unfortunately, he's somehow doing the opposite this year, explain quantitative observations through qualitative reasoning. That's always problematic, and had resulted in him ignoring the rise of Trump, among others.
posted by the cydonian at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't think Nate Silver is "bored," he's running a media group now and has different priorities than he had earlier.
posted by zutalors! at 8:58 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

It looks like there's 3 to 1 odds in Irish betting. I don't know much about betting services, but my sister sent me this Irish billboard touting Orange as the new Black.
posted by readery at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, everyone, in a few hours I'll be flying to Japan. I've been following the election threads pretty religiously since the conventions, and I've been happy to sacrifice my productivity on the altar of that cause. But, my weeaboo heart loves two things: Japan and my nerdy boyfriend, and it will not let anything get in the way of seeing the sights of the former by day and making out with the latter by night. I'll be back just in time for the first debate, though, and I'm looking forward to what you all have to say.

Take care. Be nice. Stay sane.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]

The wiggly worm with headlights graphs are great!
posted by diogenes at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

MSNBC's "Taco Truck" segment
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:05 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think it's because Silver handles the data differently, ie, manipulates it based on his assumptions about the polling firms.

That's what I'm starting to think too. This recent post at FiveThirtyEight says "Everyone talks about the margin of sampling error — the error introduced by not surveying every voter. But polls are also subject to all kinds of other errors" with a link to a Nate Silver post about house effects and so on. It also says, "Margin of error and sample size matter less than who’s in the sample, though be wary if the sample size is smaller than 400."

I don't think this means Nate Silver is deliberately deceiving people, though, trying to make it sounds like more of a horse race than it is, for the clicks. I think there are legitimate reasons to calculate error bars based on the measured variations in your polling data ("historical" error rates? which I think they're saying are higher than the pure sample size errors would imply, because of these other error sources?) I think the more conservative approach produces more sensible results, because I really don't think a 4% lead in the national polls justifies greater than 99% certainty in the outcome of an election held today. Look what happened with Michigan in the primaries, for instance. I think the point about correlated errors is a good one (if you outperform your polls, it's probably because some underpolled demographic showed up in or force or some overpolled one didn't, and they probably did that everwhere...) And I believe that it is really pretty much the same model 538 used in 2008 and 2012.

And arguments from authority are stupid, because we have enough info here to critique the actual methods, but for what it's worth I'm a physicist and I don't feel like I'm so mathematically naive that it would be trivial for Nate Silver to put one over on me.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:10 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm wondering if one of the others reasons Trump hasn't seemed to care much about working on his 'ground game' is because he's so paranoid about people that work for him.

Perhaps, but if you look at how Trump does business with suppliers and contractors -- hire them with grand promises, stiff them on the bill with accusations of shoddy work, tell them to settle or they'll be fought (expensively) in court all the way -- then loading up contracts with non-disclosure and non-disparagement language (however legally dubious) is a way to intimidate people into settling, or to drag out litigation if a case goes to court. It's all part of the grift.
posted by holgate at 9:15 AM on September 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

(Though I admit I did originally assume that sampling error was the dominant error source in the FiveThirtyEight model, and I now think I was wrong about that, I think the basic approach still makes sense and don't feel deeply deceived.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:17 AM on September 2, 2016

So I would agree that if you held the election today and repeated this across a zillion timelines, far fewer than whatever-the-nowcast-says percent of them would have Trump winning. I expect, though, that this is just Silver being conservative and putting more weight on the lower-probability event.

Because when you draw on hundreds of polls, those polls (historically, in the elections that Silver and Wang have been doing this) very accurately describe the state of the electorate right now.

BUT, what the current sets of polls allow us to accurately (and precisely!) say about the electorate is, at best, "How would the population of American likely voters answer the question 'If the election were held today, who would you vote for?'" This isn't the same thing as how many of those people would actually go to the polls or who they would actually vote for if they did, and there is random and systematic error in both of those points of slippage.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:20 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

For your palate cleanser/ geekery/ fabulousness of the day, i give you @joyannreid
With my fellow Uhuras at Star Trek: Mission New York. Yass! #geekingout
posted by Sophie1 at 9:22 AM on September 2, 2016 [20 favorites]

MSNBC has someone from the Annenberg Public Policy center saying Clinton's policy is "mush," but we know what Trump wants to do.

I mean, this is just clear malpractice of some sort, right? "She needs to talk about what she wants to do, people don't know"

THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T REPORT ON IT EVER, TEE VEE.
posted by zutalors! at 9:24 AM on September 2, 2016 [40 favorites]

Seriously a high school newspaper team would do a better job covering this election.
posted by zutalors! at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2016 [25 favorites]

Taco trucks on every corner, lesbian farm takeovers, and vagendas of manocide just remind me of Kate Beaton's comment on the political cartoons that inspired her velocipedestrienne comic. They're supposed to be shocking and scandalous, but just come off as awesome and badass.
posted by ckape at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2016 [21 favorites]

They're supposed to be shocking and scandalous, but just come off as awesome and badass.

...and a tacit reminder that the only people who want things to go back to how they were in the 'good ol days' probably have at least one confederate battle flag in their possession.
posted by Mooski at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wow, two major stories (not counting the taco trucks, which, is more of an ethos):

Trump Foundation Busted, Fined for Corrupt Dealings
Trump Volunteer Form's Incredible Overreach for a Lifetime

So now I'll just do a quick circle around the ol' blockeroo and get the MSM versions.

WaPo: New Polling Shows (Slightly) Closer Race / Trump Doesn't Pivot on Immigration

NYT: Trump Wants to Deport People / Trump Q&A at Black Church / Clinton Emails [FFS]

MSNBC: Chuck Todd: Clinton Camp Frustrated by Coverage / Latinos Mad at Trump

CNN: CNN Poll: Clinton's Lead Cut in Half / House GOP Succeeds Without Trump / Taco Trucks

Yeah. You "news" organizations aren't . . good. You have no shame and no goals but money. F**k you.

In conclusion, Viva MetaFilter Mega-threads!
posted by petebest at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2016 [33 favorites]

BUT, what the current sets of polls allow us to accurately (and precisely!) say about the electorate is, at best, "How would the population of American likely voters answer the question 'If the election were held today, who would you vote for?'" This isn't the same thing as how many of those people would actually go to the polls or who they would actually vote for if they did, and there is random and systematic error in both of those points of slippage.

That's literally what likely voter models are designed to account for. Each poller has its own approach. A meta-analysis, appropriately conducted, has proven incredibly effective at predicting exactly what voters are going to do. Michigan is the exception that proves the rule. I like the the cydonian's sports metaphor. The Dodgers are up 5-2 in the bottom of the seventh. We have two questions: who's going to win (the forecast) and who would win if the umps called it right now (the nowcast). Silver has the same probabilities for both. That doesn't make any sense. If he truly thinks polls are so noisy that Trump would have a 25% chance of winning today, how can he possibly say that he'd have a 25% chance of winning two months from now? How on earth is he partitioning the noise? Forget the stats. Does that pass the smell test?

But he's Nate Silver and the closest thing to a nerd superstar this side of Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

Um... Exactly.
posted by one_bean at 9:29 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

When you watch a sports match, you look at the actual score, and see how ahead or behind your team is. You don't typically try to see the win probability.

Somebody doesn't follow FanGraphs? There are dozens of sites that project win probability for most major sports, sometimes in-game but ordinarily season-long. I'd imagine most sports fans are interested in projections that calculate the odds of their favourite team winning the championship (Blue Jays currently 59.4% chance of winning the division, 93.9% chance of making the playoffs, 11.6% chance of winning World Series according to FG - Nate has them at 60%, 91%, and 12%).

I can't picture a fan seeing their team behind early in a match and thinking, "well, I guess they've lost", or turning off the game as soon as their team takes a lead assuming that means they've won. Is there a contest out there with an end point that doesn't have its followers trying to figure out their chances of winning based on the current situation and a reasonable view of what could happen next?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 9:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Seriously a high school newspaper team would do a better job covering this election.

You know how there is a subversive device that let's you turn off television in public places? I'm fantasizing hard about a magical channel changer that switches Fox and CNN over to an earnest high school newspaper crew reading from their notebooks. It would be a refreshing change. I'd donate if we could find a plausible kickstarter.
posted by puddledork at 9:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm annoyed that there are so many cable hews people moderating the debate. We have Chris "apple fell far from the tree" Wallace and Anderson "my network hired Corey Lewandowski" Cooper.
posted by zutalors! at 9:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

But he's still Nate Silver and the closest thing to a nerd superstar this side of Neil deGrasse Tyson.

But like anyone he has his blind spots. The chapter on climate change in his book was an embarrassment and was multiplied by his hiring of climate change denier Roger Pielke. It's a classic example of engineer's disease, an unwarranted belief in competence outside of one area of expertise.
posted by JackFlash at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Where has Joy Ann Reid been? A truly happy discovery, her.

And when did the Annenberg Center equate with horribleness?

I missed both of those events apparently.
posted by petebest at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

You know how there is a subversive device that let's you turn off television in public places? I'm fantasizing hard about a magical channel changer that switches Fox and CNN over to an earnest high school newspaper crew reading from their notebooks. It would be a refreshing change.

Oh to have this device in every airport I've transited through and every hotel lobby I've waited in. I've had to get up and change seats at airports because even though I sat down with my back to the screen, it turned out that I was sitting too close to a hidden speaker tuned to the Fox News bobbleheads.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:36 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

'Here's Your Electoral Problem, Mr. Trump' | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC

Election map breakdown
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

ckape: "Taco trucks on every corner, lesbian farm takeovers, and vagendas of manocide just remind me of Kate Beaton's comment on the political cartoons that inspired her velocipedestrienne comic. They're supposed to be shocking and scandalous, but just come off as awesome and badass."

I missed out on Lemonade tour tickets so I am totally looking forward to the activation of the Beyoncés.
posted by mhum at 9:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

When you watch a sports match, you look at the actual score, and see how ahead or behind your team is. You don't typically try to see the win probability.

I do, both at the game level and the odds-of-making-the-playoffs level. There are plenty of web sites that provide this information, so other people must be interested as well. There's been a lot of recent strategic advances in football, for instance (not that they have filtered down to the field, for various reasons), that have come from analyzing win probability, most obviously the New York Times 4th Down Bot.
posted by dfan at 9:40 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

If he truly thinks polls are so noisy that Trump would have a 25% chance of winning today, how can he possibly say that he'd have a 25% chance of winning two months from now?

If you toggle back and forth between the polls only forecast and the nowcast, you'll see they track pretty closely with each other. I think this means that Silver is assuming more uncertainty up front and predicting that if the polls move it will mostly be within those generous error bars, and Wang is assuming smaller uncertainty upfront, but expecting that the center of that narrower distribution of outcomes could drift quite a bit?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:45 AM on September 2, 2016

> I missed out on Lemonade tour tickets so I am totally looking forward to the activation of the Beyoncés.

I, for one, welcome our new astonishingly hard-working and talented over~~lords~~divas.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 9:45 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

There's a reason why so many politics nerds are also sports nerds, y'all. (You may notice that 538 is also a sports site, and that John Favreau's excellent podcast about the election is run out of a sports site. The horse race metaphor is kind of a bit more than a metaphor.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:46 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

holgate: That Bullshitico headline is clickbaity

Actually, the subtitle is what ruins things:
Clinton’s advisers tell her to prep for a landslide
Displaying unchecked confidence, the Democrat’s paid consultants see plenty of paths to the White House.

Underlined for emphasis by me. Unchecked confidence? Bullshit. Also "paid consultants" is stupid shade, as if Donny's team is all on board out of the goodness of their hearts and the support for his [dark, apocalyptic] vision for America's future.

The rest is accurate, but perhaps not in the way they intended. From the article:

Clinton allies see an East Coast path, for instance, which would guarantee 317 electoral votes by picking up New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida; a wholly separate Latino strategy that would put her at 295 electoral votes just with victories in Florida, Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico; and a path through the Rust Belt that would focus on Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa and put her at 293 electoral votes without North Carolina, Georgia, Florida or Nevada.

So far, the campaign has not privileged any one option over another. The only downside to the strategy is spreading the campaign too thin and running out of money — but Clinton’s August fundraising haul was a massive $143 million, by far her best month to date. And Priorities USA, the super PAC backing her campaign, is on track to raise more than double what it brought in for President Obama last cycle.

So, she is preparing to make this a landslide victory, instead of resting on her comfy, comfy pillows and idly watching as Donny keeps launching torpedoes into his own campaign. And instead of banking on one path to victory, they're looking to diversify and expand the momentum.

Her campaign is building up a serious war chest to make sure she wins, and with her win, potentially spread the wealth to down-ticket Dems, increasing her potential for change once in office.

Please Hillary, keep preparing for a landslide. We need it.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:49 AM on September 2, 2016 [28 favorites]

I'm fantasizing hard about a magical channel changer that switches Fox and CNN over to an earnest high school newspaper crew reading from their notebooks. It would be a refreshing change

"We're getting reports in from the field that Donald Trump is a total butt head."
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:49 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

The same people who somehow imagine Obama is dumb also talk about what an angry hothead he is. That is downright delusional. In the face of the most maddening ignorance and do-nothingism, Obama has never once lost his cool. The times he's brought anger to a speech, it was purposeful and crafted. I can only come to the conclusion that hatred of a Black man as president has made some folks literally mentally ill.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2016 [48 favorites]

I can only come to the conclusion that hatred of a Black man as president has made some folks literally mentally ill.

Obama and Clinton Derangement Syndromes aren't mental illnesses but they are definitely real things. People are nonclinically bonkers out there.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:58 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Also "paid consultants" is stupid shade, as if Donny's team is all on board out of the goodness of their hearts and the support for his [dark, apocalyptic] vision for America's future.

Not as stupid as you think, because guess who's stiffing his senior staff?
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]

Also, can I just say that Ron Fournier's farewell is one of the least self-aware things the man's ever written?
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:01 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Not as stupid as you think, because guess who's stiffing his senior staff?

Gonna need to invest in popcorn futures here. Can you imagine the lawsuits headed ol' Trimp's way from Manafort and others after his November defeat? This isn't the same as stiffing sole proprietor small biz, these folks will have the deep pockets needed for a strong legal team.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:04 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can only come to the conclusion that hatred of a Black man as president has made some folks literally mentally ill.

Note that many police officers are unable to look at a teenage black male without seeing a superhuman murder machine. Many white racists automatically read negative qualities into the faces of black men no matter what. Racism isn't so much a mental illness as a learned incorrect way of perceiving the world.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:06 AM on September 2, 2016 [31 favorites]

No Gwen Ifill moderating anything?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:11 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

If you toggle back and forth between the polls only forecast and the nowcast, you'll see they track pretty closely with each other. I think this means that Silver is assuming more uncertainty up front and predicting that if the polls move it will mostly be within those generous error bars, and Wang is assuming smaller uncertainty upfront, but expecting that the center of that narrower distribution of outcomes could drift quite a bit?

That's how you would have to interpret their model results, I agree. But if you read how Nate Silver writes about his models (especially the forecast), he doesn't believe that the polls will be stable over the next two months. And he shouldn't, because it's an untenable position. It's exactly the opposite of what all the previous elections tell us - polls are very good at saying what's happening right now. Election eve polls, taken together, are almost always right. But there's a lot of noise in the months before the election. And in fact, Silver says that the forecast includes an estimate of that noise. The fact that the "polls only" forecast and the "nowcast" are similar means that (1) Silver is being misleading about how his models work and (2) his models have contradictory assumptions built into them.
posted by one_bean at 10:13 AM on September 2, 2016

Obama and Clinton Derangement Syndromes aren't mental illnesses but they are definitely real things. People are nonclinically bonkers out there.

And, of course, it's not taking place in a vacuum. Much of the blame can be attributed to the relentless 25+ year efforts of the right wing media machine (initially talk radio and later Fox News) to basically gaslight their entire audience into believing its rumors, innuendo, and outright lies about a Grand Conspiracy being waged against them by a ruthless Enemy of a Thousand Faces who will stop at nothing to tear down God, Country, Family and everything that they hold dear.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:14 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

He got really burned on his Trump call by not following what the numbers told him. His model was more right than his intuition. He's skittish now and has evolved from "the nervous optimist's best friend" to Debbie Downer since 2008 and 2012.

In the same way that Obama's success in 2008 was unduly seen as a validation of Nate Silver's methods, Trump's candidacy in 2016 has been used unfairly -- including by Nate himself -- as a criticism of those methods. The conceptual error in both cases is the premise that a probabilistic forecast can be "right" or "wrong." The probability expresses a degree of uncertainty based on available information. What exactly did he get "wrong" by assigning a low probability to the event that Trump would be the nominee? Maybe given the available information, e.g., that a major party had never nominated someone as ludicrously unqualified as Trump in modern history, that low probability assignment was warranted. Maybe it just happened that a number of unprecedented events needed to transpire and they did. Maybe we just rolled the hard eight.

We'll never know. But the desire to be "right" and have some way of measuring just how right you were is extremely tempting, I suppose. Nate rode high on a wave of claiming to have been right about all those races in the past, and now I agree that the Trump experience has humbled him a bit and caused him to be a little more circumspect in calling the race for Hillary to the extent he might have previously.
posted by albrecht at 10:19 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

Michele Bachmann: This Will Be 'Last Election' If Hillary Wins Presidency

"Hillary Clinton will ensure it won't happen because she's going to change the demographics of the United States so that no Republican will ever win again," Bachmann tells me.

Therefore, Bachmann has a message for all the anti-Trump folks:

"I say get over it! All the 'Never Trumpers,' all the establishment Republicans that are out there saying,'We'll just take our chances and four years from now we'll have a better candidate, then we can take the White House.' It's not going to happen."

Well the lunatic fringe are starting to pop their heads back up.
posted by Talez at 10:24 AM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

No Gwen Ifill moderating anything?

I was hoping for Megyn Kelly.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:26 AM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

"Hillary Clinton will ensure it won't happen because she's going to change the demographics of the United States so that no Republican will ever win again,"

Wait, wait, this isn't right at all, it's only supposed to be 14 words.
posted by Copronymus at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2016 [34 favorites]

"Hillary Clinton will ensure it won't happen because she's going to change the demographics of the United States so that no Republican will ever win again," Bachmann tells me.

I wonder what Bachman thinks that demographics actually are. Or how Hillary herself could change them.
posted by Francis at 10:28 AM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

Michele Bachmann: This Will Be 'Last Election' If Hillary Wins Presidency

Remember: everything with these guys is about projection.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on September 2, 2016 [16 favorites]

But he's still Nate Silver and the closest thing to a nerd superstar this side of Neil deGrasse Tyson.

That's a really, really, really mean thing to say about Nate Silver.
posted by rorgy at 10:29 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

Maybe we just rolled the hard eight.

I think Nate made a compelling case against this in his mea culpa. Luck is obviously a factor, but he specifically calls out places he and his team screwed up. It's not that the hard eight came up, it's that he made a bunch of mistakes that led to him not hedging his bets as much as he should have.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:29 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wonder what Bachman thinks that demographics actually are. Or how Hillary herself could change them.

She's going to legalize all the illegals so they can vote Democrat.
posted by Talez at 10:30 AM on September 2, 2016

She's going to legalize all the illegals so they can vote Democrat.

From your mouth....
posted by chonus at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

Labor Day news dump: The FBI on Friday publicly released documents from its now-closed criminal investigation into Clinton’s use of a personal email server during her tenure as secretary of state, providing a glimpse into the probe that Republicans have said reached the wrong conclusion.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump 'Drunk On The Applause' At Rallies | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Opening clip: Donnie's special deportation squad, then Donny's "humane" deportations as his softening.

Best dumb joke on Donny's method: If your position last more than 4 hours, consult a physician.

Mika, I feel for you. You're surrounded by silly talking heads who can't just say "Donnie is terrible at all of this, and terrible for the country, the end."

She also defended Hillary's lack of media presence. "She can let [Donny] roll around in his own mess." There it is, the best tactic for dealing with a pig - let everyone see it being a pig, rolling around in it's own mess, and don't jump in there to wrestle with it.

An interesting idea: if Gary Johnson joins the debates, instead of hurting Donny, perhaps it'll hurt Hillary, so Donny should advocate for Gary to join the debates.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wonder what Bachman thinks that demographics actually are. Or how Hillary herself could change them.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:34 AM on September 2, 2016 [21 favorites]

The RNC crows about hiring 392 staffers for ground support.

I'm pretty sure Clinton has that many in the swing states alone.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2016

I was noticing an uptick in email nothingburgers articles, guess that's why.
posted by Artw at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2016

> "Hillary Clinton will ensure it won't happen because she's going to change the demographics of the United States so that no Republican will ever win again," Bachmann tells me.

If Bachmann means by her kind of Republicans, then great. Would love to never see a party based on bigotry, hatred, sexism, and xenophobist conspiracy theories dog whistled to the corporate agenda on the ballots.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

New emails raise questions of whether Clinton dined and dashed at insider D.C. restaurant

WASHINGTON, DC. (AP) - A new series of emails released from Hillary Clinton's private server reveal questions about the Democratic nominee's history of not paying for meals, possibly stiffing restaurants on the bill. The private conversations cast a cloudy shadow over her consistency in properly accounting for restaurant bills over a career spanning many decades.

An email exchange from late 2013 reveals that after dining at an exclusive restaurant located near her Secretary of State office, Clinton and aides consulted one another over which person in particular would be handling paying for the meal, indicating doubts over whether Clinton consistently paid for food or possibly left without settling charges.

Financial records released show a charge to a "Panera" matching the nearby bakery/cafe for an amount of $38.73, but it is not clear if this was in exchange for food, or was used to gain access to high-up officials in the popular chain's hierarchy. Rumors inside the beltway have long circulated about possible links between the Clinton foundation and soup-and-sandwich lunch deals.

"Did Anne [Nabson] or Jane [Metter] pick up the check on the expense account card when we were at Panera?" reads the first email in the exchange, indicating there may be chain of command issues in the Clinton staff.

The response from Nabson reads "I picked up the bill. Thanks! -A". Typical of emails exchanged between staffers, the signed response did not indicate whose proper responsibility was the payment to the restaurant, or whether all restaurant payments occurred. Clinton has long insisted that all meals were properly paid for, but no direct evidence of this is seen in the more than 30,000 emails published as part of the Benghazi investigation.

Clinton's long history of paying for restaurant meals only after food is delivered and consumed has long raised questions about whether she engaged in "pay for play" horse trading when working as Secretary of State.

[fake, for now]
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:44 AM on September 2, 2016 [33 favorites]

> [fake, ...
Thank you! It had me going.

... for now]
:(
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:46 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

I think Nate made a compelling case against this in his mea culpa. Luck is obviously a factor, but he specifically calls out places he and his team screwed up.

Right, and I think he's being too hard on himself (in this way but not others). No doubt there will be many interesting lessons to come out of this election season, most notably that several key assumptions about the ways the party elders decide their nominees may be inapplicable when there's (1) an overcrowded field, and (2) a populist demagogue grabbing an outsized proportion of the media market share. But those things might never happen again, and it might have been totally legitimate to say it was unlikely to happen this year.

The fact that he assigned a low probability to Trump's nomination isn't prima facie evidence that something went wrong. His post-mortem analysis just deepens the conceptual problem, though, when he says things like (paraphrasing) "We didn't have enough data to make a probability model." The lack of data and the uncertainty it brings is precisely why probabilities are needed in the first place. His problem is not that he sometimes acts like a pundit but that he pretends like he ever didn't.
posted by albrecht at 10:47 AM on September 2, 2016

From your mouth....

No... it's one of those, "this is what the lunatic right actually believes" things.
posted by Talez at 10:48 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Her campaign is building up a serious war chest to make sure she wins, and with her win, potentially spread the wealth to down-ticket Dems, increasing her potential for change once in office.

> "Hillary Clinton will ensure it won't happen because she's going to change the demographics of the United States so that no Republican will ever win again," Bachmann tells me.

holgate: "I think they'll believe that they can filibuster away, run bullshit Clinton Rules scandals in the House, take back the Senate in 2018, and use that as a platform for 2020, which in turn creates possibilities to lock down the US House and state legislatures for another decade.

"The base plus midterm turnout plus existing control of state governments plus the capacity to map districts' voting preferences down to the block makes for a potent balm against demographic change, especially if Trumpism remains part of the mainstream political discourse like the emissions from a toxic chemical plant."

Polyarchy: "Party leaders can also point to the fact that they still control the majority of state legislatures and will likely still hold a majority in the House. And even if they lose the Senate in 2016, they should be able to retake it in 2018.* And while the demographics in the long term are against them in a party cleavage organized around race and identity, about 75 percent of the electorate is still white (though that's declining)... if Republicans can hold together to make Hillary Clinton's presidency a disaster by making opposition to her the organizing principle of their party, they should be in a prime position for 2018-'20."

> Obama and Clinton Derangement Syndromes aren't mental illnesses but they are definitely real things.

first a black president and then a woman, what is the world coming to?

---
*/em added; cite?
posted by kliuless at 10:49 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Michelle O'Bachmann's comments are always helpful and well-grounded in reality.
posted by petebest at 10:50 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

I've come from the future just to share this from our history books: George W Bush was the last white male president of the United States.
posted by DanSachs at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2016 [26 favorites]

Michelle O'Bachmann

Is Michelle O'Bachmann the Irish-German Tea Party Republican clone of Michelle Obama?
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:56 AM on September 2, 2016

DanSachs: I've come from the future just to share this from our history books: George W Bush was the last white male president of the United States.

You have to be more specific! Is it because the Orange One is now some kind of God-King in a post-apocalypse hellscape, or because Hillary has Changed Politics Forever?
posted by filthy light thief at 10:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

Michelle O'Bachmann was a running Letterman thing. Usually with Paul intoning immediately after, "Michelle Bachmann."
posted by petebest at 11:03 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

I've come from the future just to share this from our history books: George W Bush was the last white male president of the United States.

You have to be more specific!

By "the future", he means "tomorrow".
posted by Etrigan at 11:10 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

No Kissinger endorsement for either candidate. (George Schulz also nopes his way out of the dilemma.)
posted by maudlin at 11:12 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

NoxAeternum: Not as stupid as you think, because guess who's stiffing his senior staff?

Interestingly, Lewandowski doesn't appear to be among those stiffed. So his dual salary is real, not honorary.
posted by Superplin at 11:13 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

/cue speaking in tongues

RIN DIK MORTAR FORKERS
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:13 AM on September 2, 2016

if Republicans can hold together to make Hillary Clinton's presidency a disaster by making opposition to her the organizing principle of their party, they should be in a prime position for 2018-'20.

Fart.

I do expect this to be the plan, if they can hold on to their PO[S]T(T) majority. But if we get 4-8 more years of this kind of obstruction, the Presidential system will almost certainly break down.
posted by dis_integration at 11:14 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

The most famous of Pittsburgh's taco trucks has been enjoying the publicity today.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [14 favorites]

No Kissinger endorsement for either candidate.

Who wants that war criminal's endorsement anyway?
posted by dnash at 11:30 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

The organization headed by the guy who warned of rampant Taco Trucks has issued a statement blaming the response to the comment on "Thought Police" who deemed it "unacceptable". [real]
posted by kyrademon at 11:38 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

wasn't that guy the head of Latinos for Trump?
posted by zutalors! at 11:40 AM on September 2, 2016

The organization headed by the guy who warned of rampant Taco Trucks has issued a statement blaming the response to the comment on "Thought Police" who deemed it ~~"unacceptable"~~ "hilarious".

Fixed that for him.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:41 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]

My favorite part of tacotruckgate is imagining the facial expressions of alt-right idiots as they go from scoffing at the PC police to realizing that the taco trucks are part of the "dominating" culture. I imagine lots of puppy-like head tilts.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:43 AM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

Who the hell doesn't like taco trucks?
posted by stolyarova at 11:44 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

The organization headed by the guy who warned of rampant Taco Trucks has issued a statement blaming the response to the comment on "Thought Police" who deemed it "unacceptable". [real]

The statement itself? Or the notion of taco trucks on every corner? The statement was idiotic, and taco trucks are obviously awesome.
I guess I shouldn't really try to parse this fully, right now.
posted by rp at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2016

I would have gone with "taco police" and "delicious" myself.

It's hard to fathom that we share a country with people (besides restaurant owners, who don't like competition who can pay their rent in quarters into the parking meter) who see ready availability of tacos to be anything other than wonderful.
posted by zachlipton at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I know, right? Or who would discourage small business owners providing a yummy and valuable service to the community.

I wish my neighborhood had a taco truck. Massachusetts suffers a dearth of good Mexican food.
posted by Sublimity at 11:48 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Like the guy is not saying that tacos taste bad. He's saying "these people are going to take over our culture, something essential about America will be getting lost." Plus all the fear of brown people, fear of crime.
posted by zutalors! at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

But if we get 4-8 more years of this kind of obstruction, the Presidential system will almost certainly break down.

Yeah. If divided government continues, at some point there will be a crisis (an actual crisis, not like the own-goal that is America, 2016). A major terrorist attack, a severe economic downturn, a war in a place our country actually cares about, etc.

And then one of four things will happen:

1) Congress and the President are able to work out a mutually satisfactory political response to the crisis

2) Congress overrules the President with a supermajority, essentially subordinating the executive to the legislature and making the US a quasi-parliamentary government, something vaguely like the French system

3) The president asserts emergency powers, with varying degrees of bad long-term consequences

4) political chaos followed by ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really really hope someone swapped out all the nuclear material in our nukes with something more harmless like packing peanuts or confetti. I can see Obama quietly making that happen on his way out the door
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

> Is Michelle O'Bachmann the Irish-German Tea Party Republican clone of Michelle Obama?

With MxyPriebus banished back into his puzzle-box, Cruz suggested the Legion of Dumb clone Michelle Obama for their schemes... before realizing it wasn't necessary and they could just plagiarize the transcript of her speech. They then ran CloneMichelle backwards through Superman's transformation machine and WitSec relocated her as Michelle O'Bachmann. [Fake, but no dumber than any of their other supervillain-dickery this year]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:50 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

I really really hope someone swapped out all the nuclear material in our nukes with something more harmless like packing peanuts or confetti

Glitter or gtfo.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

Oops: Green Party presidential candidate's Capital University speech delayed after she flies to wrong city

Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was scheduled to speak at Capital University in Bexley at noon today but it looks like she's running a little late.

That's because instead of flying into Columbus, she accidentally went to Cincinnati instead, according to the Capital University Greens Student Organization who is sponsoring the event.

(HT: TPM)
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 AM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

Glitter should be banned under the Geneva Conventions. It's impossible to eradicate once you've been exposed.
posted by stolyarova at 11:54 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]

No Kissinger endorsement for either candidate.

I am furious. Getting this elder statesman's endorsement was absolutely critical. People love Henry Kissinger.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:54 AM on September 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

you people aren't even worried that once a critical mass of taco trucks assemble within our borders they'll be able to form Tacotruckasaurus
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:55 AM on September 2, 2016 [32 favorites]

Tacotruckasaurus

Best Transformer EVER.
posted by stolyarova at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2016 [12 favorites]

Election day. Tuesday.

Taco Tuesday.

_{we're through the looking-glass here, people...}
posted by mikelieman at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]

tivalasvegas: I really really hope someone swapped out all the nuclear material in our nukes with something more harmless like packing peanuts or confetti

I'm hoping for something quickly biodegradable.

WOODHOUSE: It's not garbage sir, it's --
ARCHER: Scraps of paper, Woodhouse, which by any definition, yes, is garbage.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

I for one welcome our new robotic taco generating overlord.
posted by Roommate at 11:58 AM on September 2, 2016

Election day. Tuesday.

Taco Tuesday.

Would taco trucks at polling stations help one candidate over another? Because I think that would be awesome.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

It's still a terribly racist comment that equates a people with their food. As much as I find the jokes hilarious, it does kind of remind me of all the comments like, "Why would I hate Chinese people? Dim sum is so yummy! This is why racism is bad!"

I see what you're saying, but most of the jokes that I've seen in response to the original comment (which was undeniably racist) were more along the lines of "Sounds delicious! Let's make this happen!" Which to me is way more about people truly embracing the everyday reality of multiculturalism, than about people whose acceptance of other cultures extends primarily/solely to their cuisine.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

stolyarova: Glitter should be banned under the Geneva Conventions. It's impossible to eradicate once you've been exposed.

Exactly.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Seriously what is more American than a taco truck?

Their virtues outlined thusly:

1) Entrepreneurs
2) In an AUTOMOBILE
3) Selling unhealthy food
4) To people of all classes
5) That travels to hungry bellies (ie, requires little consumer effort)

It's like America on Wheels and Jesus almighty I want a taco right this minute.
posted by Tevin at 11:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [58 favorites]

He's saying "these people are going to take over our culture, something essential about America will be getting lost."

The puffy taco and the breakfast taco were invented in America!

Both are essential to my diet!
posted by maxsparber at 12:00 PM on September 2, 2016

Glitter or gtfo

That's worse than the nukes!
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:00 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

That's because instead of flying into Columbus, she accidentally went to Cincinnati instead, according to the Capital University Greens Student Organization who is sponsoring the event.

The airline probably thought she wanted to visit Harambe's family.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:00 PM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]

Glitter should be banned under the Geneva Conventions. It's impossible to eradicate once you've been exposed.

We left housekeeping an extra fifty after NYE2K in Atlanta because we felt so bad.
posted by mikelieman at 12:01 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

He's saying "these people are going to take over our culture, something essential about America will be getting lost."

The puffy taco and the breakfast taco were invented in America!

Ok, so he's not using "taco truck" as a dogwhistle?
posted by zutalors! at 12:01 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

you people aren't even worried that once a critical mass of taco trucks assemble within our borders they'll be able to form Tacotruckasaurus

Molétron
posted by cortex at 12:02 PM on September 2, 2016 [30 favorites]

Ok, so he's not using "taco truck" as a dogwhistle?

Can a dog-whistle be tone-deaf?
posted by mikelieman at 12:03 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Taco Bell Election Day Promo in 5... 4... 3...
posted by mikelieman at 12:03 PM on September 2, 2016

Glitter is the herpes of craft supplies.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

Truthfully, I just think that guy is a moron.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

The morning after my (same-sex) wedding I woke up on the back porch covered in glitter, I still have no idea how this happened as to my knowledge I had not interacted with glitter in any way.

it is the gayest of mysteries
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:07 PM on September 2, 2016 [79 favorites]

Truthfully, I just think that guy is a moron.

He's putting a different face on the same Trumpian ugliness and fear of nonwhite immigration.
posted by zutalors! at 12:10 PM on September 2, 2016

Oh, it's a dog whistle. To people who don't know their taco history!
posted by maxsparber at 12:10 PM on September 2, 2016

the spanish were never able to conquer us irish either but you don't see me raising the specter of corned beef and cabbage trucks on every corner.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

New branding, anyways.

I don't buy that this is all or even most of it. I think it's literally new people. I've posted it on here before, but i was around for the genesis of 4chan, the high school freshmen age neocons/proto alt-right boys who infested it.

Then, this election season i met at aforementioned trump rally, encountered online, and heard through meatspace acquaintances of many other not-even-voting-age alt right trollbois.

I think it's not just new branding, i think that like anonymous and gamergate the older(but still like late 20s-30s) superbigots have concocted a new scheme in which their footsoldiers are mostly angry teenage boys. You could call that branding, but it's an entire new audience for that garbage.

The question is how many burn out and disavow it by college, and how many stick around. I want to believe the numbers aren't great... but i'm just not so sure.

Also, for the record, I don't understand why anyone would think that acknowledging that Conway is responsible for making horror more palatable means you think she's somehow less evil? Anyone who's dealt with a covert abuser or narcissist or whatever knows she's the dangerous one. If it ever comes to power, it will come with a face like Conway's. She's terrifying.

Tbh i think a lot of people here are so pre-loaded against the woman-being-evil concept by all the garbage anti hillary rhetoric that they just snap back away from it. I mean, my halfway shitty two cents, but i really think the bar is so high now that even literally-nazi would result in 🤔. It's like it went "is all criticism of a woman partially misogynistic and therefor questionable" and the answer was collectively "hmm probably".

I'm not even saying i disagree with that, i just think that there's a general shying away from it.
posted by emptythought at 12:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

He's putting a different face on the same Trumpian ugliness and fear of nonwhite immigration.
posted by zutalors! at 12:10 PM on September 2 [+] [!]

Yeah but I think the worldview that he shares with those people, the thing that leads to saying "my culture is a dominant culture," is what makes them all kinda moronic
posted by schadenfrau at 12:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

So the danger is they'll eliminate native street food such as ???????
posted by Artw at 12:15 PM on September 2, 2016

>Then, this election season i met at aforementioned trump rally, encountered online, and heard through meatspace acquaintances of many other not-even-voting-age alt right trollbois.

Hey wait could this explain why Trump performs better in online polls rather than person-to-person polls? I'm guessing on the assumption that the online polls in question are not targeted to registered voters, I do not know if they are or not.
posted by Tevin at 12:16 PM on September 2, 2016

Seven o'clock in the morning, I'm going to school—hugs, kisses, and he used to say a couple things. 'No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.' I think a great lesson for any kid. But then he followed up with: 'Don't. Trust. Anyone. Ever.' And, you know, he'd follow it up two seconds later with, 'So, do you trust me?' I'd say, 'Of course, you're my dad.' He'd say, 'What did I just—' You know, he thought I was a total failure. He goes, 'My son's a loser, I guess.'

I don't know why, but this was finally the point at which i started to tear up. I know several people who had parents like this and it fucked them up. Even the ones who turned out mostly ok still have had tons of fucked up interpersonal relationships, and are still well... totally fucked up from it.

Even if he's trying to court our entire country into an abusive relationship, i still feel really bad for his kids. Hell, even his adult kids who are complicit in his shit... at least a little.

What a fucked up way to grow up. What a bunch of sad, heavy, messed up shit to have to carry around and sift through. I mean i don't know what i expected but just... fuck, that was almost too much.
posted by emptythought at 12:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [48 favorites]

Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was scheduled to speak at Capital University in Bexley at noon today but it looks like she's running a little late.

That's because instead of flying into Columbus, she accidentally went to Cincinnati instead, according to the Capital University Greens Student Organization who is sponsoring the event.

Way to present yourselves as plausibly capable of running the country, Greens.

Definitely a credible alternative to the major parties.
posted by dersins at 12:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

For your taco pleasure:

The Food Lab: Sorry, Pulled Pork, It's Cochinita Pibil's Moment

...serve it with a stack of small tortillas and some Seville orange–pickled red onions and crazy-spicy salsa.

posted by mikelieman at 12:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

it is the gayest of mysteries

Unicorns.
posted by Artw at 12:17 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

That Trump Volunteer NDA is insane. So if you sign it no one in your family is allowed to disparage Trump, Trump family, Trump products, etc. How is that enforceable? Or for that matter your employees? I know that the section declaring no employee or family member of the signer can volunteer for Clinton's campaign is illegal-- why would they add that? Is it possible that they believe their volunteers are so dumb they won't know that is it unenforceable?

I don't know anything about legal contracts but can you enforce a contract where one side gets payment or labor or goods and the other side gets nothing?

I have seen a number of Trump ads while at the gym and they always end with "Call and sign the pledge to support Donald Trump." Now I'm wondering if the NDA is included in "The Pledge"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:18 PM on September 2, 2016

So the danger is they'll eliminate native street food such as ???????

No, the danger is that Real Americans will have to send their children to schools with kids who speak Spanish, live differently, believe differently, possibly commit crimes, and that this is part of an unprecedented wave of nonwhites whose mission is to destroy the American way of life.
posted by zutalors! at 12:18 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would have gone with "taco police"

[sings]

Carnitas Police
Arrest this man
He talks in code
He whistles for the dogs
He makes his guac with mayonnaise

This is what you'll get
This is what you'll get
This is what you'll get
When you vote for Trump
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on September 2, 2016 [35 favorites]

He makes his guac with mayonnaise

NO.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:20 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Unicorns.

Dieting rhinos. Next mystery, please.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:21 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

All the finest taco bowls mix guac with mayonnaise, what are you complaining about?
posted by Artw at 12:22 PM on September 2, 2016

Oh to have this device in every airport I've transited through and every hotel lobby I've waited in. I've had to get up and change seats at airports because even though I sat down with my back to the screen, it turned out that I was sitting too close to a hidden speaker tuned to the Fox News bobbleheads.

If your phone has an IR function you can turn the volume down yourself.Oh to have this device in every airport I've transited through and every hotel lobby I've waited in. I've had to get up and change seats at airports because even though I sat down with my back to the screen, it turned out that I was sitting too close to a hidden speaker tuned to the Fox News bobbleheads.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:23 PM on September 2, 2016

He makes his guac with mayonnaise

NO.

I know farmers in Southern California who grow avocados for a living and make their guacamole with mayo. Personally, think it's fucking gross (avocados are nature's mayonnaise, dammit!), but it's, like, a legit thing for a non-trivial number of people.
posted by dersins at 12:24 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

No its an illegit thing for trivial people.
posted by ian1977 at 12:25 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

No Kissinger endorsement for either candidate. (George Schulz also nopes his way out of the dilemma.)

I'm guessing that they are both preoccupied commiserating over their sudden loss of wealth from worthless Theranos stock.
posted by JackFlash at 12:26 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Do you like street corner tacos?
And you don't prefer crepes
If you're not into Jesus
Immigration's too much red tape

If you like like crossing the border at midnight
In this beautiful landscape
This country of Trump's all fucked up!
To Canada we'll escape!
posted by Talez at 12:26 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

the only thing better than taco trucks on every corner would be taco trucks alternating corners with falafel/shawarma trucks
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:27 PM on September 2, 2016 [47 favorites]

I used to make guacamole with mayonnaise, because that's how my mom did it, and I found that gross but figured it was a necessary evil. The day I discovered that guacamole doesn't need mayo at all was the day I became a grown-up.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:29 PM on September 2, 2016 [20 favorites]

Canada is seriously behind the US in terms of quality Hispanic food options, there's just not a big enough Latinx population. At least I found that to be the case 10 years ago.

jamaican meat patties though. I haven't had one of those since I moved back to the states.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:30 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, I'm just curious. Some folks are saying (and I believe them) that certain provisions in Trump's NDA are illegal. If it ends up in court, and the court rules that those provisions are in fact illegal, and thus unenforceable – does that render the entire contract null and void?

Another question that I have is if you are a salaried employee but never receive your salary (as his communications director, Michael Caputo has claimed) does the NDA hold up?

I'm guessing that most people will never willingly break this agreement because they don't have the money to fight off a Trump lawsuit but I think it's a pretty horrific idea that Trump can just browbeat people into submission just by threatening them with legal action.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

the only thing better than taco trucks on every corner would be taco trucks alternating corners with falafel/shawarma trucks

What about trucks with Cornish pasties? And I would like at least one truck with baozi. Maybe one of those guys with an oil drum stove selling jianbing, too. I would vote for someone if they brought jianbing.
posted by Frowner at 12:32 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Clinton campaign needs to have Bill release his taco recipe a la the cookie bake bullshit.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:33 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Or Arepas. That would be awesome.
posted by mrzarquon at 12:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

Joy is on MSNBC explaining this right now. Saying that Marco Gutierrez, himself a Mexican immigrant, and founder of Latinos for Trump is articulating the fear that we are being "overrun by people who are not of our culture, not part of our culture, not assimilating."

The Great American Melting Pot by Schoolhouse Rock

When you melt different cultures together, you don't melt away parts of the other cultures. Parts of the other cultures all survive and mix together. Its wonderful and glorious. There are so many different ways to live and do things and experience things. I live in Hawaii and we follow traditions from a half dozen different cultures every single day without even thinking about it. I don't feel any less American when I do those things - indeed, I feel more American because in America is made of people of dozens of cultures.

Its not just food, but holy cats there is some amazing food out there that you'll never, ever experience if you don't make friends with real human beings who cook it. If you've never had a variety of homemade Filipino dishes, for instance, you are missing out on one of the most amazing sensory sensations you can experience.

When I try to muster up some sympathy for racists, most of its comes down to "they don't know what a remarkable world they're missing completely by insisting they remain in their little WASP bubble."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [30 favorites]

taco trucks alternating corners with falafel/shawarma trucks

What would be more American than a bison shawarma truck? Soooo hungryyy...
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:39 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hey guys.

I'd like to point out that it's almost as if Clinton has anticipated the possible obstructionist house and senate plays by the GOP, which is why she is using the GOTV actions to also push for local and congressional races, including the anti-gerrymandering governors movement.

That foresight is really what swung me to her. Bernie had no plans on how to actually undo the systemic disenfranchisement that has been going on, besides a lot of speeches (since again, a lot of those systems are actually outside the realm of direct presidential influence).
posted by mrzarquon at 12:41 PM on September 2, 2016 [57 favorites]

A bison shwarma monster truck
posted by ian1977 at 12:41 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

> A bison shwarma monster truck

BBQed bison shwarma monster truck, with cheese
posted by mrzarquon at 12:41 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

How is that enforceable? Or for that matter your employees? I know that the section declaring no employee or family member of the signer can volunteer for Clinton's campaign is illegal-- why would they add that? Is it possible that they believe their volunteers are so dumb they won't know that is it unenforceable?

Actually there is no federal law prohibiting an employer from firing you for your political activities. Your boss can fire you for having the wrong bumper sticker on your car or what you say on your blog. California and New York provide some protections, but in general an employer can fire you for political activity.
posted by JackFlash at 12:42 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

WASP bubble

I'm picturing something like a rat king (*click at own risk*) except instead of rats: thousands upon thousands of angry, writhing wasps.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:42 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

What would be more American than a bison shawarma truck? Soooo hungryyy...

Roasted turkey legs, obvs. I still think we made a mistake making the Bald Eagle our national bird instead of the turkey (as Ben Franklin wanted).
posted by stolyarova at 12:42 PM on September 2, 2016

First day volunteering! I was on phones calling to confirm support for Clinton and our state senator, Michael Bennet. It's surprisingly fun and I encourage anyone considering it to give it a try! There's a script and everything.

And I just happened to be there when two guests stopped by our supertiny Colorado Springs campaign office within an hour of each other:

1. Kathleen Sebelius!
2. And then Donna Brazile!!! Who had been on the road for a while and was down to her last pair of socks. She stuck around for a bit and posed for selfies.

Both spoke and Donna also left us some cookies! It was awesome.
posted by mochapickle at 12:42 PM on September 2, 2016 [48 favorites]

(if we wanted the "ruined by TGIFridays" version)
posted by mrzarquon at 12:43 PM on September 2, 2016

escape from the potato planet: "If it ends up in court, and the court rules that those provisions are in fact illegal, and thus unenforceable – does that render the entire contract null and void?"

My completely non-lawyerly, layperson's understanding is that normally the answer would be "not necessarily", because a normal contract would have a severability clause for exactly that reason. However, because obviously nothing related to the Trump campaign can be assumed normal, apparently this contract does not have a severability clause. So, who knows? Maybe yes?
posted by mhum at 12:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

> I'd like to point out that it's almost as if Clinton has anticipated the possible obstructionist house and senate plays by the GOP, which is why she is using the GOTV actions to also push for local and congressional races, including the anti-gerrymandering governors movement.

At least in my experience, the first question we ask is "Can we count on your support for the Democrats in this upcoming election?" And then drill down to Hillary, then specifically about (more) local races if it allows.

I haven't volunteered in any other elections so I can't tell if that's unique to Hillary or just SOP.
posted by Tevin at 12:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

We have a Native American taco truck herein Seattle, I wonder how that stacks up.

(It's tasty but a tiny bit overpriced and pretentious. )
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on September 2, 2016

> However, because obviously nothing related to the Trump campaign can be assumed normal, apparently this contract does not have a severability clause. So, who knows? Maybe yes?

I would assume this wasn't even vetted by a lawyer, and just made up by one of his kids as a way to protect their dad?
posted by mrzarquon at 12:45 PM on September 2, 2016

Ari Melber (Sr. legal analyst) says it's unenforceable because they're not being paid.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:48 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

jamaican meat patties though. I haven't had one of those since I moved back to the states.

You need to get to Brooklyn, stat. There are about a million awesome Jamaican patty places (and a bunch of shitty ones, too), but if you go, like, today, you can be there for this.
posted by dersins at 12:48 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ari Melber (Sr. legal analyst) says it's unenforceable because they're not being paid.

Good to know.

I was looking for information on the legality of an employer preventing you from working on a campaign in your own time. It does appears to vary from state to state.* It is shame that this can't be made into Federal Law. It seems like such a basic right to me.

*I think what was most surprising to me is that not all states require employers to let you take time off to vote. How is that not a Federal Law?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:56 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

If it ends up in court

That's a pretty big if in light of the binding arbitration clause:

Without limiting the Company’s or any other Trump Person’s right to commence a lawsuit in a court of competent jurisdiction in the State of New York, any dispute arising under or relating to this agreement may, at the sole discretion of each Trump Person, be submitted to binding arbitration in the State of New York pursuant to the rules for commercial arbitrations of the American Arbitration Association, and you hereby agree to and will not contest such submissions. Judgment upon the award rendered by an arbitrator may be entered in any court having jurisdiction.

It would be a fight just to get your day in court instead of having the whole thing decided on by the American Arbitration Association.
posted by metaphorever at 1:02 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ari Melber (Sr. legal analyst) says it's unenforceable because they're not being paid.

NDAs and other restrictive covenants need consideration to be enforceable.

I suspect getting to work for free is not adequate consideration.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:02 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

You need to get to Brooklyn, stat. There are about a million awesome Jamaican patty places (and a bunch of shitty ones, too)

Or DC.
posted by OmieWise at 1:04 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

BBQed bison shwarma monster truck, with cheese

Deep-fry that fucker, FTW!
posted by mikelieman at 1:05 PM on September 2, 2016

Billy West has released the Trump medical letter, as read by Zoidberg.

This is amazing.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:05 PM on September 2, 2016 [43 favorites]

Roasted turkey legs, obvs. I still think we made a mistake making the Bald Eagle our national bird instead of the turkey (as Ben Franklin wanted).

Wha? Then we'd be eating roasted eagle legs.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:09 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

No, we'd still eat the turkeys, it's just be sort of a patriotism-via-transubstantiation deal as a bonus.
posted by cortex at 1:10 PM on September 2, 2016 [20 favorites]

bison shwarma monster truck

Princess Bison Shwarma Monster Truck.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 1:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Billy West has released the Trump medical letter, as read by Zoidberg.

WHY NOT?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

@HillaryClinton: When Ruline was born in 1913, women couldn't vote.

In 2016, she'll cast her vote to elect the 1st woman president.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [25 favorites]

He's saying "these people are going to take over our culture, something essential about America will be getting lost."

Just like our nation's ill-fated experiments with pizza, frankfurters, hamburgers, and bagels.
posted by PlusDistance at 1:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [21 favorites]

zutalors!: Can the HRC campaign open a taco truck now
ftl: Election day. Tuesday.

Taco Tuesday.

Would taco trucks at polling stations help one candidate over another? Because I think that would be awesome.

free taco for every "Yo Voté" sticker after you come out!
posted by numaner at 1:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Sophie1: Glitter is the herpes of craft supplies.

Related: Clitter, glitter for your vagina. (YT, NSFW, but not obscene.)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:21 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Early voting already: Trump chances may hinge on non-whites

National Republican officials say they now have 1,000 paid staffers and 5,000-plus trained organizers and other volunteers in 11 states assigned to help mobilize voters for both Trump and down-ballot GOP candidates. Heavy focus will be on boosting absentee mail-in balloting in Florida, North Carolina, Ohio and Iowa, using the party's own massive data analytics program.

The Clinton campaign has more than 250 field offices in nine states compared to Trump's 133 nationwide, though Trump adviser Karen Giorno says his number will increase, especially in Florida. The Clinton team declined to reveal personnel details, but the 2012 mobilization involved thousands of paid staffers — including 500 in Florida alone — and 50,000-some trained organizers and other volunteers, according to Jen O'Malley Dillon, Obama's top field director in 2012 and now a senior adviser to the Democratic National Committee.

Absentee ballots in NC go out in one week. You can request an absentee ballot for any reason.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:22 PM on September 2, 2016

off-topic but my pedantry makes me irritated when people say 'vagina' when they mean 'vulva'

seriously unless there's a speculum involved you're probably not seeing much vagina
posted by stolyarova at 1:22 PM on September 2, 2016 [24 favorites]

I think y'all arguing over whether Silver's 26% for Trump is being too credulous about his chances are missing the forest for the trees. The polling average advantage for Clinton is down to +3 with the last five polls being Tie, Clinton + 2, Trump +1, Clinton +5, and Clinton +2 (which averages to Clinton + 1.6). Trump is ahead in Iowa. While the polling average in VA still looks good the last two polls there are Clinton +1 and Clinton +2. Wisconsin looks real shaky though with a small Clinton advantage.

Is Clinton currently ahead? Yes. But it's a far narrower margin than it was two weeks ago. I fully expect the race to be tied going in to the first debate.
posted by Justinian at 1:25 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

(Sorry, that was the slogan in the video)

Back on topic -- Early voting already: Trump chances may hinge on non-whites

Poll: Millennials Go for Clinton; Trump Can’t Buy an Older Minority Vote (Morning consult, July 21, 2016)

And Race and racism in the 2016 campaign (CNN, Sept. 1, 2016)

A Quinnipiac poll released last week found that a majority of likely voters -- 59% -- think that the way Trump talks appeals to bigotry. Some 29% of Republicans think that way and 72% of non-whites have the same view.

Increase in minority voters poses problem for Trump in Florida (Politico, August 15, 2016)

Donald Trump is getting ZERO percent of the black vote in polls in Pennsylvania and Ohio (WaPo, July 13, 2016)

If Donny's hopes hinge on non-whites, it's not gonna happen. Unless you mean non-whites not showing up.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:29 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

seriously unless there's a speculum involved you're probably not seeing much vagina

I found myself reading this in a Jeff Foxworthy cadence (with an ellipsis after "involved") and am now both trying to and trying not to imagine a whole standup routine on that theme.
posted by cortex at 1:29 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

WaPo: If this new poll is right, Trump is absolutely shredding the GOP brand with Latinos

The poll, which was commissioned by America’s Voice and conducted by Latino Decisions, finds Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by 70-19 among Latinos. That’s worse than Mitt Romney’s 27 percent in 2012.

But buried in the crosstabs are these findings that suggest Trump may also be damaging the GOP’s image among them pretty badly:

* 70 percent of Latinos say that Trump has made the Republican Party “more hostile” to them. By contrast, 58 percent of Latinos say Hillary Clinton has made the Democratic Party “more welcoming” to them.

* 68 percent of Latinos say Trump’s views about immigrants and immigration make them less likely to vote for Republican candidates this November — with 58 percent saying those views have made them much less likely to do that. By contrast, 64 percent of Latinos say Clinton’s views make them either much more likely (43) or somewhat more likely (21) to vote for Dem candidates.

This poll was conducted before Trump's Immigration speech.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [18 favorites]

It looks like Reuters is trying to out-AP the AP.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

WaPo: If this new poll is right, Trump is absolutely shredding the GOP brand with Latinos

Burn baby burn!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:36 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

> @HillaryClinton: When Ruline was born in 1913, women couldn't vote.
In 2016, she'll cast her vote to elect the 1st woman president.

Fun fact: in a good handful of countries, women had passive voting rights before active (ie. you could vote for a woman, but women could not vote)
posted by farlukar at 1:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Clinton campaign has more than 250 field offices in nine states compared to Trump's 133 nationwide, though Trump adviser Karen Giorno says his number will increase, especially in Florida. The Clinton team declined to reveal personnel details, but the 2012 mobilization involved thousands of paid staffers — including 500 in Florida alone — and 50,000-some trained organizers and other volunteers...

This is phrased in a super weird and confusing way, so as to make it unclear which numbers refer to Florida, which to the "nine states," and which are supposed to be national totals.

Not sure what the 50K number is supposed to refer to, but the Obama campaign had more than 2 million volunteers nationwide in 2012. Though I don't know state-by-state vol numbers (aside from the state I worked in), there were very likely more than 50,000 volunteers in Florida alone.
posted by dersins at 1:43 PM on September 2, 2016

GOTV efforts could do worse than to have taco trucks hang out with them, perhaps registering voters as they place their orders.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Who the hell doesn't like taco trucks?

Today's front page survey on YouGov asks 'Do you like or dislike Mexican food?' As of 2 minutes ago when I submitted my response ("Like it a lot"), 9% of people dislike it a little or a lot.

A data-based answer to your enquiry!
posted by palindromic at 1:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

GOTV efforts could do worse than to have taco trucks hang out with them, perhaps registering voters.

Maybe a free taco with registration? Surely the campaign could fund that, right?

Fox News 2017: More Hearings on the Taco Pot Dome Scandal.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm just kidding, like they'd know enough history to make that reference. It'd be TacoGate.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Justinian current panic level: moderate.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on September 2, 2016 [12 favorites]

Or Taco Bell should give out free tacos based on voter turnout.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:56 PM on September 2, 2016

A turkey in every pot! A taco truck on every corner!
posted by PenDevil at 2:01 PM on September 2, 2016

leotrotsky: WaPo: If this new poll is right, Trump is absolutely shredding the GOP brand with Latinos Burn baby burn!

One of our local field organizers is a self-described "Dream Act kid." At every phone banking event I've attended, she's emphasized how hostile the GOP is to people like her and their families. How they have been made to feel inferior, endangered, less than human.

From her and many conversations I've had with constituents*, I can tell you there are a LOT of voters in Arizona who either fall into the same category, or who are appalled to see what's happening to others. And if it's like this here, I have to imagine that this effect is magnified across the country.

*See above about how I have to stop making calls because I always end up crying.
posted by Superplin at 2:03 PM on September 2, 2016 [16 favorites]

tonycpsu: It looks like Reuters is trying to out-AP the AP.

Remember when Chuck Todd said Donnie and Hillary were having a "race to the bottom" that was generally mocked in a prior thread? Perhaps Chuck mis-spoke and it was the journalists themselves who are projecting here.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:04 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Taco Bell should give out free tacos

How dare you equate delicious taco truck tacos with ::shudder:: Taco Bell ::shudder::
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

Delicious taco truck tacos for some, Taco Bell tacos for others!

Always twirling, twirling, twirling towards obesity!
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:10 PM on September 2, 2016 [12 favorites]

Politico: Inside Trump Tower: Facing Grim Reality

The absence of a clear plan has spread to something even more fundamental — the campaign’s path to 270 electoral votes.

In mid-August, Trump’s campaign team gathered with RNC officials at the candidate’s Washington, D.C.-area office to discuss the swing-state map and a deployment plan that would make their difficult Electoral College math work.

According to three people present, Trump’s chief pollster, Tony Fabrizio, laid out a path that required the team to divide states into four tiers — with Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania sitting in Tier One. In the next were Arizona and North Carolina, which Mitt Romney carried but where Democrats are hoping to compete this time around. There were also Nevada and Iowa, which Democrats won in 2012 but where Trump is running competitively.[...]

To those present, the plan was persuasive — and seemed to offer a coherent blueprint for the campaign to allocate resources. Yet, two weeks later and 20 days from the start of early voting, it’s not clear the plan is being implemented. In recent days, Trump has campaigned in Mississippi and Washington state — neither of which are seen as remotely competitive.

The article goes on to say that the RNC is still in debt for the convention because the big money donors are not interested, the campaign staff find the work environment "confusing" and people keep quitting.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:10 PM on September 2, 2016 [27 favorites]

BBQed bison shwarma monster truck, with cheese

Deep-fry that fucker, FTW!

I'd prefer slow roll over coal.
posted by srboisvert at 2:12 PM on September 2, 2016

I'm just kidding, like they'd know enough history to make that reference

Trump was comparing the emails to Teapot Dome last week. I think he droped it because the crowd was confused by it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:12 PM on September 2, 2016

Secret Life of Gravy: WaPo: If this new poll is right, Trump is absolutely shredding the GOP brand with Latinos

And he's not doing GOP any favor with African Americans. You don't even have to mention Muslims.

So the last broad-brush minority group he hasn't attacked are Asians. Back in the mists of time, way back in May of the year Two Thousand and Sixteen, Donny was polling miserably with Asian Americans. At that time "Only 19 percent of Asian Americans hold a favorable view of the presumptive Republican nominee, according to a survey of more than 1,000 registered Asian Americans conducted by three Asian-American NGOs, while 61 percent view him unfavorably."

So yeah, he's got his limited base of angry white dudes.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:12 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

Delicious taco truck tacos for some, Taco Bell tacos for others!

by "others" i'm assuming you mean folks who are drunk and not in the vicinity of a taco truck
posted by burgerrr at 2:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

I found myself reading this in a Jeff Foxworthy cadence (with an ellipsis after "involved") and am now both trying to and trying not to imagine a whole standup routine on that theme.

There was a guy on Conan who did this exact routine. Child of a gynecologist who would get pedantic about it and the wrong time...Can't remember his name though.
posted by srboisvert at 2:13 PM on September 2, 2016

Secret Life of Gravy: The article goes on to say that the RNC is still in debt for the convention because the big money donors are not interested, the campaign staff find the work environment "confusing" and people keep quitting.

News like this makes my heart grow. Maybe they can have a bake sale, or sell off surplus military gear.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:14 PM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

Delicious taco truck tacos for some, Taco Bell tacos for others!

Taco Bell for FEMA camp detainees.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:14 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

New Yorker: Introducing a New Series: Trump and the Truth

But sometimes there really is something new under the political sun. Donald Trump, the Republican nominee for President, does not so much struggle with the truth as strangle it altogether. He lies to avoid. He lies to inflame. He lies to promote and to preen. Sometimes he seems to lie just for the hell of it. He traffics in conspiracy theories that he cannot possibly believe and in grotesque promises that he cannot possibly fulfill. When found out, he changes the subject—or lies larger.[...]

In recent weeks, reporters and the fact-checking department at The New Yorker have put their efforts into a series of reported essays about Trump and lying. No one here is suggesting that Trump is the only politician ever to unleash a whopper. In fact, Hillary Clinton has had her bald-faced moments—moments that are too kindly described as “lawyerly.” But, in the scale and in the depth of his lying, Donald Trump is in another category; this effort, which begins with Eyal Press’s essay on Trump and immigration and will continue every week through the election, is by way of keeping track of a record that appears to know no bounds, and certainly no shame.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [48 favorites]

Vegan Electric Taco Truck is either a band or the only future worth having.
posted by petebest at 2:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm guessing that most people will never willingly break this agreement because they don't have the money to fight off a Trump lawsuit but I think it's a pretty horrific idea that Trump can just browbeat people into submission just by threatening them with legal action.

It discourages people from asserting their rights even before it goes to court, like those signs at a business "Management not responsible for X". Even if it is false, many readers believe it to be true and don't take further action.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:19 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Right or those gravel trucks that post "Not responsible for damage from flying gravel."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:22 PM on September 2, 2016

Thank you SLoG and New Yorker! Thank you Jeebus.

“The homicides committed by illegal aliens in the United States are reflected in the data just like for everyone else,” he wrote to me. “The bottom line is that as immigrants poured into the country, homicides plummeted.”
posted by petebest at 2:26 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

On man, Richard Burr, my NC Senator up for reelection just went on a twitter rant.:

Those sending the emails refuse to take any responsibility for it, and instead blame others in the State Department. #ClintonEmail

The emails contained classified information, and those sending the emails knew they contained classified information #ClintonEmail

The excuses never end, and no one is ever held responsible. #ClintonEmail

And several more.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:27 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Heavy focus will be on boosting absentee mail-in balloting in Florida, North Carolina, Ohio and Iowa, using the party's own massive data analytics program.
If they're using the same kind of "data analytics" that I saw in the Nixon Campaign in 1972, they have deals with the owners of nursing homes to send out volunteers to "help" senile residents fill out their absentee ballots. Which to me explained much of the "Republican advantage" with the 65+ demographic. I cannot imagine the GOP not continuing their proud tradition of Voter Fraud in newer and more creative ways...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:28 PM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

I looked back through, but didn't see any discussion of it, anyone have any thoughts about the release of the details of the FBI investigation? I haven't seen reports of anything big but I haven't exactly combed through them. Here's the link
posted by R.F.Simpson at 2:30 PM on September 2, 2016

Taco Bell for FEMA camp detainees.
I'd say that would be cruel and unusual punishment, but since apparently we're ignoring the rest of the constitution...
posted by une_heure_pleine at 2:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

And I'm fairly certain that, in a hilariously clumsy way, the "Taco Truck" was considered an analogy to employing immigrants illegally, since the Restaurant Industry considers Food Trucks of all types as the equivalent of "paying somebody under the table" (only THEY aren't the ones doing it, it's the CUSTOMERS), and the Taco part just connects it to the assumed ethnicity. Are there any Food Trucks selling Eastern-European cuisine?
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:33 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Seeing the field office map where Trump has 22 Wisconsin field ofices made me wonder if it was considered one of the "secret states" he talked about: GOP governor and legislature, sufficiently strong party infrastructure. However, Russ Feingold's Senate run against empty suit Ron Johnson surely has up-ballot benefits, and it's not mentioned in the Bullshitico piece. This, though:

“We are having too many issues of surrogates booking their media hits independently,” Lanza wrote, adding that surrogates now needed to contact him before going on air. “I will take care of all your booking needs. PLEASE DO NOT BOOK ON YOUR OWN ANYMORE.”

Problem is, when you've drained down your surrogate pool to the sludge on the bottom, you're more likely to end up with Mr Taco Truck.
posted by holgate at 2:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

A quote from the New Yorker article I linked to earlier by Eyal Press

“If you look at the statistics of people coming . . . you look at the statistics on rape, on crime, on everything coming in illegally in this country, it’s mind-boggling!” Trump declared during an interview on CNN last year, citing as evidence a 2014 story published by Fusion that investigated the prevalence of sexual assaults against migrant women and girls en route to the United States. When Don Lemon, the CNN host, responded by pointing out that the Fusion story was about migrants who were raped, not hordes of criminals crossing the border, Trump snapped, “Well, somebody’s doing the raping, Don! . . . Who’s doing the raping?” A few days later, Trump was interviewed by the NBC News correspondent Katy Tur, who pointed out to him that the incarceration rate for both documented Mexican immigrants and undocumented immigrants over all was lower than that for native-born Americans. “It’s a wrong statistic,” Trump insisted. “Take a look at all the crime that’s being committed.” When Tur noted that the research “does not match what you’re saying,” Trump replied, “Don’t be naïve. You’re a very naïve person.”

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [28 favorites]

Are there any Food Trucks selling Eastern-European cuisine?

Yup
posted by theodolite at 2:36 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

, the "Taco Truck" was considered an analogy to employing immigrants illegally, since the Restaurant Industry considers Food Trucks of all types as the equivalent of "paying somebody under the table" (only THEY aren't the ones doing it, it's the CUSTOMERS),

How does this play out when it's a Brick and Mortar BBQ place running a truck for lunchtime downtown?

and the Taco part just connects it to the assumed ethnicity. Are there any Food Trucks selling Eastern-European cuisine?

I think my native Pierogi qualifies.
posted by mikelieman at 2:36 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

JINX, you owe me pierogi!
posted by mikelieman at 2:37 PM on September 2, 2016

Are there any Food Trucks selling Eastern-European cuisine?
There's at least one Russian food truck in DC, though it's one of the fancy hipster ones, not a street-corner type.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 2:37 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

From the Trump Tower article:

But with just over two months until the election, Trump’s campaign remains transitory and unstable. Staffers describe a confusing work environment, with a constant lack of clarity about who’s in charge. To some, it's campaign manager Kellyanne Conway and CEO Steve Bannon. Others say it's Kushner and other members of the Trump family. Others say that, in the end, it’s Trump himself who’s calling the shots.

It's a disaster, folks. It's a disaster. A disaster. What have you got to lose?
posted by petebest at 2:38 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

I can never parse discussions of food trucks in other cities because in Portland the answer to "but is there a food cart that sells x cuisine" is to cut you off mid-sentence to ask whether you mean the one downtown on 5th or the one downtown on 3rd or the one in SE or—
posted by cortex at 2:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

And I'm fairly certain that, in a hilariously clumsy way, the "Taco Truck" was considered an analogy to employing immigrants illegally, since the Restaurant Industry considers Food Trucks of all types as the equivalent of "paying somebody under the table" (only THEY aren't the ones doing it, it's the CUSTOMERS), and the Taco part just connects it to the assumed ethnicity. Are there any Food Trucks selling Eastern-European cuisine?

I don't know if this counts, but in Manhattan I've seen a few "falafel trucks". I don't remember what all they actually sell.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:41 PM on September 2, 2016

AZ Dems: Pro Taco Truck.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]

#ReadyForTortillary
posted by tonycpsu at 2:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [25 favorites]

and in Philly there's a whole murderer's row of different food trucks that hang around University City. Literally there'd be five of them lined up in a back alley behind Drexel. there's even a truck that sells just cookies. nothing else. it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't know if this counts, but in Manhattan I've seen "falafel trucks". I don't remember what all they actually sell.

I wonder if the one by the Fox News HQ sells loofahs?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:46 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't know if I need a taco truck on every corner. Gotta leave some room for empanadas!
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 2:46 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Food truck report. If you ever come to Oahu, you have to eat at the shrimp trucks on the North Shore. Every one of them has a name like "the Original Shrimp Truck" or "the Genuine First Shrimp Truck" or "The Real Genuine Original First Shrimp Truck." They serve garlic shrimp (and other shrimp) that is so good. Bring wet wipes.

To tell the truth, if it weren't for the diabetes, I'd eat plate lunches from the different Honolulu food trucks every single day. So. Good.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:47 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

seem to be sitting back and relaxing and attending Our Revolution meetings

You have a strange idea of relaxing. Our Revolution is an electoral movement, focused on electing democrats this november. How is Our Revolution not a movement against Trump?
posted by eustatic at 2:50 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I used to make guacamole with mayonnaise

man i am so safely ensconced deep in the Taco Belt that i didn't even know that this was a thing
posted by murphy slaw at 2:55 PM on September 2, 2016 [20 favorites]

there's even a truck that sells just cookies

We have the Flavor Cupcake Food Truck
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:59 PM on September 2, 2016

The scariest possibility is that Trump could win in spite of his lack of organization, but then, my greatest fear of a President Trump is not his fascism, it's his proven incompetence and his desire to make a cheap - and dishonest - dollar on everything being the true driving force of his administration. Remember, before he started running, he bragged that he could make money on a Presidential campaign, and I have no doubt that he is doing just that. Of course, the good news is his dishonesty and disorganization would likely undermine his most fascistic desires... he can't personally profit from deportations, but that wall... I assumed from the first time he declared his desire to "build a wall" that he had ways in mind to personally make yuge money from its construction. Nothing legal or constitutional, of course.

we have a fascist to defeat and the polls are tightening.
I am eagerly but patiently awaiting the first polls to come out covering the period since Trump's Mexico Day... if he doesn't lose at least a couple points immediately, THEN we have something to worry about.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:00 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

I have been wondering why the Republican party is willing to sit idly by while Trump picks up all these unsavory advisors, whether paid or unpaid. I can't even name all of the characters who should have been called out, but I'll start with Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes. The press has done some really good work on the shady backgrounds of these people, though I've seen none on the advisors' group as a whole and what that might say about Trump, the campaign or the effect of these people on the election. The Republcans should be getting more than a little concerned after this trainwreck of a campaign. It seems as though there will be nowhere for them to go. Not that this upsets me, but I used to think they had at least half a brain amongst them. I realize they've spent the last fifty years creating this monster, but I wonder if no one was watching its development along the way and thinking it would be a good idea to make a stand against the vile underbelly before it got out of hand.

This article from Slate talks a little about the lack of press outrage. While the press seems good about giving us the backgrounds, I've not seen much editorial discussion about his advisors.
posted by Silverstone at 3:02 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

How is Our Revolution not a movement against Trump?

Because Jeff Weaver is at the helm?
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

... if he doesn't lose at least a couple points immediately, THEN we have something to worry about.

I'm not sure he will. There's a lot of fresh ink in the water about the email server today.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can only judge from the emails from Bernie Sanders that I continue to get. His last one was entitled "3 out of 5" and focused on 5 Democratic primary campaigns rather than the general election. Forgive me if I think they should not be the priority when we have a fascist to defeat and the polls are tightening.

If there are people who can't stomach supporting Hillary, then directing them to Senate and House races is a very good use of their efforts. She's doing fine without those people so far. And House races deserve attention.

We have the Flavor Cupcake Food Truck

yo we got a cupcake truck too
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:08 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Not that this upsets me, but I used to think they had at least half a brain amongst them. I realize they've spent the last fifty years creating this monster, but I wonder if no one was watching its development along the way and thinking it would be a good idea to make a stand against the vile underbelly before it got out of hand.

Who would have guessed that Mel Brooks would be the one who accurately predicted the process of creating the modern Republican party?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:08 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can only judge from the emails from Bernie Sanders that I continue to get. His last one was entitled "3 out of 5" and focused on 5 Democratic primary campaigns rather than the general election. Forgive me if I think they should not be the priority when we have a fascist to defeat and the polls are tightening.

If there are people who can't stomach supporting Hillary, then directing them to Senate and House races is a very good use of their efforts. She's doing fine without those people so far. And House races deserve attention.

That's not quite the point. Focussing on a primary election means getting people who align with Bernie into the general election, not necessarily defeating the Republican candidate.
posted by LionIndex at 3:10 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

AZ Dems: Pro Taco Truck.

If you don't know AZ; in Tucson if you count trucks, stands, and shops, "on every corner" is not much of an exaggeration, if any. If there's not a already a taco place on the corner someone will set up a truck there. As it should be.
posted by bongo_x at 3:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

What The FBI's Hillary Clinton Notes Reveal | MSNBC

Spoiler: not much
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:22 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

My partner runs a food truck in Seattle selling New Zealand-style savory pies, so every day he gets to trade some of his wares for lunch from one of the other food trucks. It is an enviable existence. (Of course, today he traded with a taco truck in honor of our coming Tacotopia.)
posted by fermion at 3:22 PM on September 2, 2016 [12 favorites]

Dog Food Trucks are now a thing.

I have been wondering why the Republican party is willing to sit idly by while Trump picks up all these unsavory advisors, whether paid or unpaid. I can't even name all of the characters who should have been called out, but I'll start with Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes.

This Politico article from May claims that the RNC is being taken over by Trump supporters. Win or lose in November, his supporters have already won key positions within the party that ensure their influence will extend well past 2016.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:26 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kyle Griffin: Colorado Democrats are trolling Trump by parking a taco truck outside his Denver campaign office to register voters:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on September 2, 2016 [66 favorites]

I'm having tacos for dinner, because I am susceptible to repetition and because all the taquerias in Chicago deliver.
posted by tzikeh at 3:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

That's not quite the point. Focussing on a primary election means getting people who align with Bernie into the general election, not necessarily defeating the Republican candidate.

I think "getting people who agree with me into office" is a valid goal, especially if it's not actually taking people away from Clinton. It's only a problem if he's primarying an incumbent Democrat in a competitive seat. If it's a solid blue district, the primary is the general. If the incumbent is an R, any D will be on almost equally poor footing.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

the RNC is being taken over by Trump supporters

I mean, how could you even tell? Every last Republican in the RNC and in Congress has endorsed him, there's no possible way to separate "Trump supporters" from every other Republican.

This idea that Trump is uniquely bad and a new phenomenon is just wrong. It's not and has never been Trump. Trump is the Republican party. Hilary is doing a disservice by refusing to knowledge that and appealing to nonexistent "moderate Republicans" like John McCain and Meg Whitman rather than tie every last downballot race to the worst things Trump has said and done.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

For the youngsters: Hillary Clinton As First Lady | Flashback | NBC News
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:35 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sure, it's totally a valid goal, but the original question is whether he's helping flip the Senate and House to the Democrats. Campaigning against Democrats in the primary isn't exactly doing that, neither is focusing on primary races in solid blue districts.
posted by LionIndex at 3:35 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

From the Reuters hit piece, verbatim:
"However, in December of 2012, Clinton suffered a concussion and then around the New Year had a blood clot (in her head). Based on her doctor’s advice, she could only work at State for a few hours a day and could not recall every briefing she received," the report said.

Except that is not what the report said. I went and looked. You always have to go to the source. Never believe the press about anything.

See those words "in her head"? They were inserted by into the quote by Reuters as an insinuation and did not come out of the mouth of the FBI agent writing the report.

A most basic rule of editing is that you never put words inside quotes that did not come out of the mouth of the quotee. If you need to add clarification you use square brackets and an editor's indication such as:
[in the head -- Ed.] Reuters did not do this properly because they intentionally wanted to lead the readers down the garden path to their bogus conclusion.

If you read the entire quote in context, it is clear that the FBI agent wrote a typical run-on sentence. It does not imply that the concussion and the briefings were related in any way. The agent was only indicating that Clinton was not working full time at the office during this period.

Yet another example of Clinton Rules in the media for you.
posted by JackFlash at 3:42 PM on September 2, 2016 [60 favorites]

Senator Klobuchar On Hillary Clinton ‘Laying Low’ From Press | Andrea Mitchell | MSNBC

She actually mostly talks about Mylan. She's good.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:45 PM on September 2, 2016

wait, is that 3 out of 5 email the one talked about in this article? Talking about primaries that they already won doesn't seem problematic to me. It leads straight into "support these guys in the general".
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:46 PM on September 2, 2016

I live in L.A. Roy Choi Kogi truck land. Home of more gourmet food trucks, roach coaches, craft service trucks and taco trucks and carts than is necessary. I have Coolhaus, the architectural ice cream sandwich truck [real] Yalla and the Hungry Nomad for my favorite middle eastern, about a billion Japanese and Thai fusion trucks, pupusas, empanada, sopes, BBQ, Greek, cupcakes, waffles, ice cream, at least 4 grilled cheese, creperies, donut, and anything else you might think of. I follow 3 aggregators on Twitter because I can't keep up with who will be where! But really, I'd be OK with more taco trucks.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

I really hate the food truck thing, but tacos are good. (I'm also in LA, and food trucks get in the way, create tons of mess because no one throws away their trash, crowd up sidewalks, etc). A taco truck on every corner sounds like a nightmare, but not because tacos :)
posted by thefoxgod at 3:53 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Donald Trump Supporter's 'Taco' Remarks Take Heat Online | MSNBC
🌮 🚐
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:59 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

If the incumbent is an R, any D will be on almost equally poor footing.

That's...not how picking up seats works.

And there's the opportunity cost. Sanders' priority is clearly advancing his primary picks, which, yes, means running against Dems. So he's prioritizing running against Dems over running against Republicans.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:59 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

All this talk about food trucks.
*sigh*
*drool*

... at least we have viskramen (mobile fish shops) and oliebollenkramen (mobile sales points of traditional sweet baked goods).
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:59 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

'Not a bigot,' Trump tells blacks; no Brotherly Love outside luncheon

GOP Presidential candidate Donald Trump told a handful of African Americans in North Philadelphia on Friday that the perception that he is a racist is because the media has interpreted his comments that way.[...]

"This whole thing about 'make America great,' that little stupid hat that he's walking around with, that's all about turning back the clock," said Clarke. "And us as minorities in these communities understand what it used to be like when there were really no opportunities for us in the workforce, really no opportunities for us for education. That's what that's about."

Clarke accused Trump of waiting to age 70 to begin a dialogue with African Americans.

Heh. Little stupid hat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:01 PM on September 2, 2016 [52 favorites]

That oliebollenkramen is crazy!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:02 PM on September 2, 2016

I found myself reading this in a Jeff Foxworthy cadence (with an ellipsis after "involved") and am now both trying to and trying not to imagine a whole standup routine on that theme.

There was a guy on Conan who did this exact routine. Child of a gynecologist who would get pedantic about it and the wrong time...Can't remember his name though.

Matthew Brousard. Here is the routine in its awkward dude glory for all those vagina/vulva peever/pedants.
posted by srboisvert at 4:04 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Kyle Griffin: On August 9, Trump said Melania would hold a presser to answer Qs about her immigration status. Still no presser.

I had forgotten about that. No presser but she is suing The Daily Mail which printed a retraction yesterday And a US Blogger.

For Melania Trump to succeed in a defamation action in the US she would have to prove that the Daily Mail acted maliciously.

In other words, she would have to provide evidence that the British newspaper was aware that the allegations were false and yet went on ‒ deliberately and maliciously ‒ to publish them.

That would be a very difficult task, especially as it is clear that the paper had sources for the story. So the chances of a successful claim in the US are remote.

However, the position would be different if Mrs Trump sued here. She clearly has a reputation in the UK ‒ she is a global figure and is entitled to bring a claim.

If she could prove that the published allegations were defamatory and that she had suffered serious harm as a result, it would be hard for the Daily Mail to defend an action. Also, in light of its retraction it could not argue that it was justified in publishing.

The big difference is that the maximum damages for a defamation claim here would be about £300,000 ‒ a fraction of the $150m (£112m) Mrs Trump's lawyers say the claim is worth.

The unnamed Blogger in the BBC report is Webster Griffin Tarpley, who runs the blog Tarpley.net

The suit says Trump is going after both publications for "in excess of $75,000" but Harder said in his statement that the "Defendants' actions are so egregious, malicious and harmful to Mrs. Trump that her damages are estimated at $150 million dollars."

Tarpley removed the blog in question and published an apology and retraction on or about August 22, according to the suit.

But Tarpley also issued a response to the legal filing saying, "Melania Trump's lawsuit against me is without merit. Mrs. Trump is a public figure actively engaged in the Trump for president campaign. We are confident that Mrs. Trump will not be able to meet her high burden of proving the statements published about her on my website were defamatory in any way. Her lawsuit is a blatant attempt to intimidate not only me but journalists of all stripes into remaining silent with regard to public figures. This lawsuit is a direct affront to First Amendment principles and free speech in our democratic society."

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

NYTimes: Tensions Deepen Between Donald Trump and R.N.C.

The Republican National Committee had high hopes that Donald J. Trump would deliver a compassionate and measured speech about immigration on Wednesday, and prepared to lavish praise on the candidate on the party’s Twitter account.

So when Mr. Trump instead offered a fiery denunciation of migrant criminals and suggested deporting Hillary Clinton, Reince Priebus, the party chairman, signaled that aides should scrap the plan, and the committee made no statement at all.[...]

When Mr. Trump’s immigration speech this week spurred resignations from the National Hispanic Advisory Council for Trump, a party-backed group, one of Mr. Trump’s top advisers lashed out at Mr. Priebus in an email to the campaign staff.

“The RNC needs to take control of this situation and quickly,” wrote Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, who often travels with the candidate.

Describing the Hispanic Republicans who resigned in dismay as “professional amnesty lobbyists,” Mr. Miller asked: “Can Reince do his job?”

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:21 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Describing the Hispanic Republicans who resigned in dismay as “professional amnesty lobbyists,” Mr. Miller asked: “Can Reince do his job?”

well Trump is the nominee so clearly no he can't
posted by dersins at 4:32 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

NYT: "If We Keep Saying Emails It Sounds Nefarious"
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:47 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Hillary Clinton scandal of the moment - her office lost a laptop full of classified information in the mail when she was Secretary of State.

This, on top of all the other email debacle crap would flat out kill any Presidential campaign, except...

Donald Trump scandal of the moment - He hates food trucks, and taco trucks in particular. Because there might be hardworking immigrant entrepreneurs inside.

I'm sorry. Trump isn't running a campaign for president as much as he is living out a Will Ferrell movie.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:52 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Please don't use fake "quotes" without a [fake] tag. It's hard enough to parse things this cycle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:54 PM on September 2, 2016 [14 favorites]

Will Ferrell? Trump wishes it were that good. Trump is a Shooter McGavin-as-protagonist in an Adam Sandler direct-to-video movie.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:59 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's still a terribly racist comment that equates a people with their food.

Well the person making the equation was the original dude who said it. Saying "More Mexicans means more tacos!" is obviously gross and racist. Everyone else is just basically saying "well IF that were true, it would just be more awesome because yum tacos!" I mean, reducing people to their ethnic cuisine is problematic, but enjoying the diversity of food options that immigrants bring is part of the great thing about America, IMO.
posted by threeturtles at 5:00 PM on September 2, 2016 [18 favorites]

WaPo's The Fix: 12 things I learned from the FBI report on Hillary Clinton’s private email server
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:00 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

The New York Times is just reliving the glory of its run-up to Bush's Iran War. They're still in Deep Denial about the decades that Trump ran so many scams in their prime readership area and they treated him as a "character". The Paper of Record? Yeah, as obsolete as 78s.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:03 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bloomberg on the missing laptop
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:03 PM on September 2, 2016

I hope that the DailyMail and Tarpley are able to use anti-SLAPP laws and take everything from the Trumps over this bullshit.
posted by humanfont at 5:05 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hillary Clinton scandal of the moment - her office lost a laptop full of classified information in the mail when she was Secretary of State.

Lotta straight up falsehoods in that sentence.

It wasn't classified information, it was an archive of...wait for it...emails.

The laptop was not lost when she was Secretary of State. In fact, the email archive wasn't even created until after she left the Obama administration.

The laptop was lost not by her office, but by an employee of a technology vendor who had transferred the (non-classified) emails to a server (using a totally stupid process involving gmail because the employee was apparently a moron), and who then deleted the emails (but failed to wipe the machine) before mailing the laptop back to Clinton's office, where it never arrived.

So bunch of dumb shit was done, but literally none of it was what you are claiming.

Were you careless, misinformed, or intentionally trying to mislead us when you wrote that?

[cite cite]
posted by dersins at 5:09 PM on September 2, 2016 [84 favorites]

reducing people to their ethnic cuisine is problematic, but enjoying the diversity of food options that immigrants bring is part of the great thing about America, IMO.

Yes, reducing people to their food is the problem. Immigrants are not coming to the US just to cook their food for white people. This happens all the time in appropriation threads etc and people being like "immigration is awesome because their food is yummy!" grosses me out after a while.
posted by zutalors! at 5:10 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does the UK have anti-SLAPP laws? The US doesn't have a federal one (some states do.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:11 PM on September 2, 2016

The Search for General Tso came to mind lately. It reminded me that few things bring Americans of all kinds together like delicious food from all over. The taco truck thing may well turn out to be the equivalent of an "I can see Russia from my house" or "47%" moment for the Trump campaign, as well it should. At the very least, that kind of ridiculous language makes it harder and harder for the right-wing to try to use dog whistles, without getting themselves laughed out of the room.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 5:21 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

The Search for General Tso came to mind lately. It reminded me that few things bring Americans of all kinds together like delicious food from all over.

And, like Gen. Tso's chicken, the cultural interaction produces great things. Corned beef is an Irish American thing because they shopped at Jewish delis. Spaghetti and meatballs was the invention of NYC Italian Americans utilizing local food (an Italian chef who toured America recommended they adopt it.) Now we have breakfast burritos and Korean BBQ tacos.

The taco truck thing may well turn out to be the equivalent of an "I can see Russia from my house" or "47%" moment for the Trump campaign, as well it should.

It wasn't one of the top dogs who said it so it'll probably not have as much impact, but it does give an avenue for ridicule, which is valuable.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:39 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

Who on earth would archive their emails on a laptop? I'm really confused by this.

Both the articles I linked above explain with great specificity what was done and the reasons that were given to the FBI for so doing.
posted by dersins at 5:39 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

#ReadyForTortillary

Oh no, now we'l get the Tortilla Wars, people claiming factions of Corn vs Flour, even #TeamBlueCorn and Gluten Free.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:46 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

This wonderful very safe for work gif sums up the nation's feelings about taco trucks.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:48 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

The last time I was in Brazil I was in Araçatuba, which is known for its cupim (the hump of a zebu cow). It is very tasty. And I saw a cupim truck. We need to save a few corners for those, too.
posted by wintermind at 5:48 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

This thing that this Latinos for Trump guy is trying to say, about how Mexican culture won't integrate. The white Republican establishment idea of integration was that everybody should eat peanut butter sandwiches on white bread. You have to dress like us and eat like us and do all the same stuff we do. Mexicans have indeed held onto a lot of our culture while in the US--but it's not like Mexican people don't watch TV and drink a ton of soda and listen to pop music. If we think of Mexican food as normal, we're approaching the point where literally the only "weird" thing about Mexicans is that they speak Spanish, and while that does still make some people uncomfortable, I don't think that alone is enough--when most of the immigrant population is capable of speaking enough English to get along--to keep claiming that Mexicans are a threat to the American way of life.

We did integrate. But we didn't sublimate. Most white people are pretty okay with the current role of Mexican-Americans in US culture. Trump's still trying to trot this out like it's the same sort of weird and scary that people thought it was in 1950.
posted by Sequence at 5:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [47 favorites]

The last time I was in Brazil I was in Araçatuba, which is known for its cupim (the hump of a zebu cow). It is very tasty. And I saw a cupim truck. We need to save a few corners for those, too.

#NotAllCorners
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Were you careless, misinformed, or intentionally trying to mislead us when you wrote that?

Knock it off. Where does the buck stop? She is responsible for her office while being the Secretary of State. For one reason or another, she felt infosec, in the late 2000's, was something she shouldn't worry about.

Emails! Simply emails. To and from the STATE DEPARTMENT of these Unites Stares of America. I am sure they were all scrupulously scrubbed of classified info. Completely. Sure.

And, as anyone in IT can tell you, of course there were no documents on this laptop, from the State Department, that could have been of any interest to hostile powers domestic or abroad.

She allowed her office to send laptops through the US mail, or hired a security officer who thought this was fine and dandy. And lost one.

If you are in any way connected with IT or Infosec, or have a security clearance, you have lost all sympathy for Clinton in all this.

I am sorry you are not proficient enough in IT to understand the complete blunder this was, that happened on her watch, that she kicked under the carpet until the FBI admitted it just now after investigation.

Mannn, I don't even like Bernie as a candidate. He's too old, too radical, to make a realistic president. We deserved better. We'll work with what we've got, because she, unlike The Donald, can and will learn from mistakes, and already has (her Infosec speech was cool).

She is still lightyears better than trump, and as soon as I get it, I will have a Hillary sign in my yard.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:55 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I am sorry you are not proficient enough in IT to understand the complete blunder this was,

I understand precisely what the blunder was. It's not clear that you do, however, given that you are repeating the same untruths as in your initial comment.

You are correct to be angry about what happened. However, you should be angry--as I am--at what actually happened, not what you are inventing, misunderstanding, or fantasizing happened.
posted by dersins at 6:02 PM on September 2, 2016 [18 favorites]

That kind of criticism would be a lot more relevant if the FBI hadn't already told us that the sum total of classified information that passed through her servers was what time she was going to make a couple of phone calls.

At this point the email scandal has become another Benghazi. The actual FBI report cleared her of any wrongdoing, and was wildly irregular in calling her "careless" and releasing the investigation materials to Republican Congressmen for no logical reason. It's impossible to parse because there's nothing there. Some IT guidelines were not followed, but no one has shown any harm whatsoever came of it, and the "classified" information was either a) publicly known anyway or b) only retroactively classified after the fact. Oh, and apparently someone may have gotten seated at Table 3 instead of Table 13 at a dinner. That's the extent of the wrongdoing here. Hell, during the same period basically the entire rest of the government got hacked, except for her secret sever no one knew to try and hack. But Bernie Bros, FAUX News, NYT reporters desperate to recapture the glory days of 1996-7, and everyone who relies on clicks to sell ads have an interest in renting smoke machines and shouting "fire"!
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:08 PM on September 2, 2016 [60 favorites]

Blackberry Bush

The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available.

Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978.[1] Over 5 million emails may have been lost.[2][3] Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove emails, leading to damaging allegations.[4] In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost.[5]

22 MILLION
posted by petebest at 6:08 PM on September 2, 2016 [54 favorites]

If taco trucks on every corner became problematic, the government could convene an International Food Court to resolve disputes.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:17 PM on September 2, 2016 [40 favorites]

The gift Joey Michaels linked to really is fantastic and has made me laugh each and every time I've gone back to look at it (which I've done four times in the space of the last five minutes).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:25 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

tzikeh: I'm having tacos for dinner, because I am susceptible to repetition and because all the taquerias in Chicago deliver.

I'm OK if we take a break from insta-polls on the candidates, and get an insta-poll on what people are ordering for dinner. Maybe we're all dupes in the plots of Big Taco!
posted by filthy light thief at 6:28 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maddow is covering the background of new deputy campaign chief, David Bossie. Yikes, this guy is a seriously bad guy. He was caught sneaking around the house and invading the hospital room of the parents of a woman who committed suicide to try to pin the suicide on Bill Clinton. He faked taped conversations between Gennifer Flowers and Bill Clinton. He basically spent the 90s getting paid by Republicans to stalk and destroy both of the Clintons. Dan Rather, who covered the scandal in the 90s about the suicide being pinned on Bill just said, "This guy is a professional political hit man. I've been saying for some time that this campaign is going to be as nasty as a frat house bathroom on New Years Eve and here's further proof."
posted by Sophie1 at 6:29 PM on September 2, 2016 [30 favorites]

I also had tacos for dinner (as how can I not), and on our five block walk to the taqueria we passed four other taquerias . . . and a taco bell.

So there's still a market for taco bell even if there are far more authentic options available (even some that are open 24/7)

In other taco truck news: Democrats set up a taco truck outside of Trump's campaign office that will register voters in Colorado.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:37 PM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]

I'm OK if we take a break from insta-polls on the candidates, and get an insta-poll on what people are ordering for dinner.

La Casa Tucker has some Meze awaiting.

In other taco truck news: Democrats set up a taco truck outside of Trump's campaign office that will register voters in Colorado.

Yes! I was hoping something like this would sprout up!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:39 PM on September 2, 2016

It turns out that Mr. Taco Trucks is a real estate scammer

Also, Michelle Bachmann is nuts but she's talking about something real. There's a reason that Republicans put together an autopsy in 2012 recommending that they open up the party. It's the same reason that they worked so hard on gerrymandering after the last census. Long term, the numbers are against the Republicans.
posted by rdr at 6:46 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Democrats Troll Donald Trump With a Taco Truck in Colorado That Also Registers Voters
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

Couple of comments deleted. Slap*Happy, please take a step back in here, and everyone else maybe let that whole exchange just cool off a bit.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

I've also been a little disappointed that my local taco trucks (and local hipster taco delivery by bicycle) didn't have some sort of anti-Trump discount or deal to help cash in on everyone talking about tacos. Maybe the tacos just speak for themselves.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:52 PM on September 2, 2016

Wow Mr. Founder-of-Latinos-for-Trump is exactly the kind of guy who would found Latinos-for-Trump.

Apparently Mr. Gutierrez is also a serial bankruptcy filer. According to court documents from 2014, Gutierrez has filed bankrutpcy at least 14 times. A potential creditor and former friend explained how they used bankruptcy filings as sort of a pyramid scheme:

"During the time I was working with [Debtors] they explained to me how they were using the bankruptcy court to prevent foreclosure on their home and to prevent other collection efforts, since they had no money. Mrs. Gutierrez explained to us that the way they were preventing a foreclosure was by filing for bankruptcy and then not following up on a legal requirement and the case would be dismissed. She explained to us that sometimes there was a three month period between the filing and the dismissal and that interfered with the foreclosure."

The best.
posted by petebest at 6:53 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Junior has tweeted this fresh-faced ad, which . . . Well, Trump has shown his ability to blow straight through what would be Dukakis moments for any other candidate, because of the sheer brazenness and profusion of his fuckups. But I believe this may be the defining image of the gens Trump.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:59 PM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

Wow that's a really good way to provoke a judge to set aside the automatic stay.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 PM on September 2, 2016

I think we've found the pod people, Countess.
posted by Yowser at 7:01 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

That ad is creepy as FUCK!
posted by Sophie1 at 7:05 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Also, nothing more outsider-y than 3 white scions of a billionaire (or millionaire, whatever).
posted by Sophie1 at 7:07 PM on September 2, 2016 [14 favorites]

What the hell is that ad even supposed to represent? They look like some sort of genetically-enhanced star chamber from a young adult dystopian franchise. Like Jennifer Lawrence is going to take them out in the third act.
posted by bibliowench at 7:08 PM on September 2, 2016 [71 favorites]

yea I don't know what that ad is about.
posted by zutalors! at 7:09 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wait, they actually made that? About themselves? Deliberately?
posted by Artw at 7:12 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

Men's fashion tip: for a warm, casual look, take a good handful of Dep and comb your hair straight back from your widow's peak
posted by Countess Elena at 7:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [24 favorites]

In that ad, Eric Trump looks like Tyrell Wellick from Mr. Robot. Which kinda fits.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 7:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [16 favorites]

They are just sooo full of themselves. Including Ivanka. Especially Ivanka. I'm done giving her a pass on anything and cringe whenever I see a dress of hers on Zappos or similar.
posted by zutalors! at 7:14 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

That ad delicately straddles the line between an Uber ad and an Aryan Youth spot.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:14 PM on September 2, 2016 [33 favorites]

Does it feel to anyone else like the anti-Semitism is leagues worse than it has been in our lifetimes?

Yes. Anti-Semitism is definitely on the rise and has been for some time now. I believe misogyny, transphobic, homophobia and anti-gay bigotry, and racism are as well. White nationalists are growing their ranks rapidly on social media.
posted by zarq at 7:14 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

The subtext is clearly 'We want to suck your blood'.
posted by mazola at 7:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Ann Kirkpatrick campaign says they have a poll showing her even with McCain. That's good news. I've mostly thought McCain was a good politician even if I disagree. But he's been way to compliant with obstructionist nonsense plus not clearly rejecting Trump.
posted by R343L at 7:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

What the hell is that ad even supposed to represent?

GATTACA, AFAICT.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Eric Trump looks like Tyrell Wellick from Mr. Robot.

Thank you! That was driving me crazy.

Bonsoir, Hillary.
posted by bibliowench at 7:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Also, don't piss off Smashmouth or Pokemon fans....
posted by zarq at 7:22 PM on September 2, 2016

What the hell is that ad even supposed to represent?

It's the ultimate 80s mashup remake: American Psycho Vampires On Wall Street.
posted by holgate at 7:29 PM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

The irritating thing is the play never really makes it clear which one is The Cursed Child.
posted by Artw at 7:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

It took me 10 minutes to realize that the rich, expensively-dressed people in that picture were supposed to be the "Outsiders".
posted by mmoncur at 7:33 PM on September 2, 2016 [40 favorites]

DJT, the born rich outsider who always wanted to be an insider. When you're gifted millions from your father, but you can't be an insider, apparently everyone has to pay.
posted by mollweide at 7:37 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

Even if he's trying to court our entire country into an abusive relationship, i still feel really bad for his kids. Hell, even his adult kids who are complicit in his shit... at least a little.
What a fucked up way to grow up. What a bunch of sad, heavy, messed up shit to have to carry around and sift through. I mean i don't know what i expected but just... fuck, that was almost too much.

I am sympathetic to 4-year-old Donald Trump Junior, but I have very little patience for grown-up Donald Trump Junior. Same with Paul LePage, who garnered some sympathy farther upthread. Own Your Shit, deal with it, process it in a way that doesn't splatter giant swathes of people with it.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:43 PM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

Hillary Clinton at the DNC: "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons."

Donald Trump, August 31: "We did discuss the wall. We didn’t discuss payment of the wall."

Later that same day the president of Mexico tweets: "At the start of the conversation with Donald Trump, I made it clear Mexico will not pay for the wall."

Later that same evening, Trump edits his speech to insist that Mexico will pay for the wall. "'I had no choice,' Mr. Trump said in an interview on Thursday." In immigration speech, Donald Trump spurns softened tone and threatens Republican future

Trump and Mexican president battle on Twitter

It was as she had foretold.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:50 PM on September 2, 2016 [34 favorites]

It was as she had foretold.

I cannot handle this twitter election any longer. Only 66 days until the bandaid is finally pulled off.
posted by dis_integration at 7:56 PM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

I thought this was an interesting breakdown on the gap between mere factual accuracy and truthful journalism.Tom Levenson at Balloon Juice: Dear New York Times:

It seems to me that it would be useful for the Times as a standard matter to note in its own voice that its reporting is based on Judicial Watch’s original work (which it does not do before the Clinton campaign quote) and to describe, again in its own terms and voice, what Judicial Watch is. Putting the argument in quotes from one side or the other is a he-said-she-said tactic. I’m not saying how the Times should describe one of the two adversaries in this story, just that it should do so in a way that allows the reader to draw a more nuanced understanding of the terms of this argument.

All of the above is a dissection of a story that I concede is accurately reported. There are no wrong facts in it, as far as I can tell on a quick review – except, perhaps, for the implication that Band’s connection to the Foundation is as a donor.

But even that’s suggestion by juxtaposition rather than an outright error. And yet it all adds up to a deeply misleading account, one that hints at and suggests corruption through “questions.” It thus adds up to a deeply misleading account, an outcome that emerges from editorial choices (like the headline) and from the way facts that don’t support the headline are placed next to suggestions or queries that reinforce the sense or smell of corruption – which just in case anyone missed it was made explicit in the closing quote from Trump.

posted by palindromic at 8:11 PM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]

White nationalists are growing their ranks rapidly on social media.
Twitter and other 'social media' have certainly provided places for 'White nationalists' and other bad white dudes to gather safely and amplify their voices. Maybe a good recruiting tool, maybe not. But there is no doubt that their collective 'influence' exceeds their numbers: "25,406 white nationalists as of the study's publication"... out of 313 million monthly active Twitter users. Membership of the Ku Klux Klan peaked at about 4 million members (including a Supreme Court Justice) 90 years ago.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:17 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

That's basically what's going on: 25,000 people, scattered across the country, couldn't be a real movement with a voice and an effect before. But the Internet, for better and for worse, makes this possible.
posted by mmoncur at 8:32 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Washington Post: Trump pays IRS a penalty for his foundation violating rules with gift to aid Florida attorney general reporter on MSNBC right now.
posted by morganw at 8:35 PM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops: TRUMP USES HIS FOUNDATION TO BRIBE POLITICIANS TO GET HIM OUT OF LEGAL TROUBLE. (AND covers it up)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:39 PM on September 2, 2016 [50 favorites]

I briefly went through the new FBI release and there is nothing much new regarding Clinton that wasn't in the previous OIG and FBI reports ...

except this report talks about an email from Colin Powell to Clinton in which he confesses to breaking a federal law.

According to the report "Powell send an email warning Clinton that if it became "public" that Clinton had a Blackberry and she used it to "do business", her e-mails could become "official record[s] and subject to the law." Powell further advised Clinton "Be very careful. I got around it by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data." "

Clinton ignored that blatantly illegal advice and became the first Secretary of State in history to turn over her work-related email as required by law.

Wow. Here is a smoking gun in which Powell confesses in writing to a deliberate violation of the FOIA and instead they are investigating Clinton who fully complied with the law.
posted by JackFlash at 8:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [66 favorites]

Clinton rules, and IOKIYAR.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:43 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean they played the clip on MSNBC, where Trump, in August of last year, flat out said during the republican debates, that he paid politicians, and then a year or two down the line when he needed something from them, they came through.

Literally pay for play, broadcast on national television. And somehow that isn't run by the media each and every time he says "pay for play" like that's something he can use against someone else.
posted by cashman at 8:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [23 favorites]

If you are in any way connected with IT or Infosec, or have a security clearance, you have lost all sympathy for Clinton in all this.

Counter-example here, thanks.

Information security practices have been so ridiculousized and watered-down with over-marking for so long it's nearly impossible to go for any length of time without a violation of some sort. Our office has several a month, all on the same level of seriousness as scheduling a phone call or emailing a blank form marked as classified without the "when filled in" common-sense caveat. I've had one or two. I'd bet a lot you have too, but nobody is watching everything you do with a microscope. Holding the Secretary of State personally responsible for every incident would be like saying obviously she doesn't value safety because someone in a thousands-strong agency got injured on her watch.
posted by ctmf at 8:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [28 favorites]

Wow. Here is a smoking gun in which Powell confesses in writing to a deliberate violation of the FOIA and instead they are investigating Clinton who fully complied with the law.

Well, because it makes her easier to investigate, you see.
posted by Artw at 8:44 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Holding the Secretary of State personally responsible for every incident would be like saying obviously she doesn't value safety because someone in a thousands-strong agency got injured on her watch.
That's the exact argument behind "BENGHAZI!!!!"
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:46 PM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

> Polls are very unnecessary. They can only do harm.

If you care about the election, you should be doing everything you can to make it go your way.

I'll agree mostly except to say that my volunteer time is limited so looking at the polls lets me know where my effort is best spent. In the past two weeks I've volunteered three half-days with the Clinton campaign. I did a shift phone banking and two events registering voters. This is a brand new thing for me but I think I'm done volunteering for Hillary Clinton.

I was pretty excited about Obama, but because I was in deep blue Maryland I never thought I should put any effort into making it happen. I just snarked on Metafilter and tracked the polls on fivethirtyeight.com and went to election and inauguration parties in 2008 and 2012. I patted myself on the back both times because my side was winning.

Now it's different. I'm back in Virginia, formerly known as a swing state. Hillary is at least a solid, consistent six points ahead of Trump, plus the Tim Kaine effect: Virginia is a lock, believe me. But Va's 13 electoral votes are not enough, I want either a landslide or a downticket tidal wave.

I want my effort to make a difference so today I had my first shift phone-banking for LuAnn Bennett for Va's 10th Congressional district, a Republican-leaning but totally winnable district. I'm doing this because the down-ticket races matter. If you live within the sound of my voice, do you have a few minutes to talk about our congressional representation?

If the Clinton campaign offered me starvation wages to work the ground for the next 9 weeks in PA, OH, FL, NC, or GA tomorrow, I'd jump at the chance. I know how to live out of a backpack and get shit done. Otherwise, I'll work my day job and give a couple of hours a week to try to win this House seat.

And for full disclosure, I learned today that I've been flagrantly misusing the expression "Netflix and chill." I thought it was literal, like I'm going home to watch some teevee and fall asleep. So thank you to the millennial volunteer with the least indiscreet sotto voce ever. I guess I am officially now an olds; an embarrassed olds, thanks! But they still invited me back to phone-bank next week. And I'll keep showing up until we win this thing.
posted by peeedro at 8:48 PM on September 2, 2016 [40 favorites]

So, J.D. Vance is going to be on Morning Joy.

This.

Guy.

Has been on every freaking television show. MSNBC (3 or 4 shows now), CNN, Meet the Press, Face the Nation, I could almost swear I saw him on Sportscenter. Vance is the author of Hillbilly Elegy and he seems to be offering up his version of the story everybody wants to seem to run with about white people who presumably have been lured into the Trump/Republican view of things.

I was interested in the book at first, since I have some experience with many things he was talking about. But then he started saying weird things talking about how white guys like him have it hard, and he got on this note that just reminded me of Chris Rock's "we're losin the country" thing. Not precisely, but broadly. It just didn't sit right with me, and I'm just over this guy appearing on a show every other five seconds.

I am glad he's appearing on AM Joy on Sunday, because I know if anybody will bring these issues to him, she will. Seeing Joy covering issues is about all I can take lately. Everybody else is sometimey lately.
posted by cashman at 8:52 PM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]

And for full disclosure, I learned today that I've been flagrantly misusing the expression "Netflix and chill." I thought it was literal, like I'm going home to watch some teevee and fall asleep.

Oh my god, you poor thing.
posted by cashman at 9:00 PM on September 2, 2016 [40 favorites]

One thing I learned from the Twitter response to the Trump: The Next Generation "outsider" ad is that way more people are familiar with Gattaca than I expected.

Also, I made vegan faux taco meat for dinner tonight.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:11 PM on September 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

Cashman, the funny thing is, I'd been doing the exact same thing, and I only discovered this until a friend of mine (an NYC editor a few years younger than me!) posted a humorous FB post how he'd been so mortified when he just discovered he'd been misusing the expression for ages. My reaction was... "oops."

I ran it by another younger friend, and she was also mortified. Apparently she'd been misusing the expression as well. So I guess the literal version of 'Netflix and chill' is not so uncommon a usage...

Oops!
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 9:12 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

it's nearly impossible to go for any length of time without a violation of some sort.

My latest one, for example: I have a thing in a locked locker. I'm required by an instruction to post a map of where the thing can be handled. This instruction contains sensitive information, so the whole thing is marked, and therefore the map it requires is also marked.

That's not the silly part. The room is still under construction, accessible by contractors. So when my people, trying to do the right thing, posted the map, it became sensitive information in a non-secure area until discovered a few hours later. It was a map of the room you had to be standing in to see the map.

So yeah, I have some sympathy.
posted by ctmf at 9:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [42 favorites]

It turns out that Mr. Taco Trucks is a real estate scammer

Gee, who would have guessed a guy with Business Ethics for Dummies on his bookshelf would have a problem with business ethics?
posted by one_bean at 9:15 PM on September 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Wow. Here is a smoking gun in which Powell confesses in writing to a deliberate violation of the FOIA and instead they are investigating Clinton who fully complied with the law.

Powell didn't go to prison for his clear violation of 18 USC 371 and 18 USC 1001 in defrauding Congress of their lawful oversight in the run up to the AUMF-Iraq, ( and neither did any of the other players ), so I have little confidence that any of the Ruling Class is going to be held to these standards going forward.
posted by mikelieman at 9:21 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

#Trumplings #CreepyAsFuck
posted by petebest at 9:28 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Vance is the author of Hillbilly Elegy

i read it, it was an interesting story but the gist of it was 'i come from a long line of crazy fuckers who believe one thing yet live another while blaming whoever is handy, loudly and violently.' meh.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:31 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

#CreepyAsFuck ?

Trump "War Room". ( Play "Find the non-caucasian for extra funs! )
posted by mikelieman at 9:34 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

No, this is the War Room
/obvious
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:41 PM on September 2, 2016

Polls are very unnecessary. They can only do harm.

I wanted you to know I saw what you did there in case you were hoping someone would.

Although it's possible you were enjoying the silence.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:46 PM on September 2, 2016 [35 favorites]

I'm just over this guy appearing on a show every other five seconds.

He got his own thread in the blue. It's a good thread and covers some of the weaknesses in his central thesis.
posted by holgate at 9:47 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

And this is Trump HQ.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:48 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

This piece is a good rejoinder to all of the various Clinton Foundation nothingburgers that the AP, NYT, Politico, and friends have been running lately:

How the Press is Making the Clinton Foundation into the New Benghazi

Over the last two weeks, Hillary Clinton’s campaign has taken a hit in the polls, much of it pretty clearly due to aggressive press investigations involving her relationship with the Clinton Foundation when she was Secretary of State. Even Hillary fans should see that these investigations are warranted. After all, Clinton is running for the most powerful office in the world. While she was Secretary of State, her husband was overseeing a $2 billion a year charity. That charity took in donations from foreign governments and individuals with international interests. These facts raise legitimate questions. Did donors to the Foundation get special access to the secretary and the department as a result of their donations? If they did get special access, did they receive any favors? Did Hillary or her staff do anything illegal, unethical, or contrary to U.S. interests or administration policy?

The good news is that as a result of these investigations we can now answer those questions pretty definitively: no, no, and no. The bad news is that the press doesn’t seem to want to take “no” for an answer, even if the answer is based on the evidence of its own reporting.

[...]

Thanks to the publishing of these investigations—most of which took many months of dogged effort to produce—we now have a tremendous amount of granular information about the Clinton Foundation’s relationship with the State Department and with the federal government generally. In virtually every case we know of, it’s clear that Hillary and her staff behaved appropriately.

Yet instead of accepting the evidence of their own investigations, much of the mainstream media expresses the attitude that these are still wide open questions. In its recent lead editorial calling for the Clintons to cut their ties to the Foundation immediately (the Clintons have said they’ll do so if she wins), The New York Times concedes that the latest batch of emails does not “so far” show that Hillary gave any special favors to Clinton donors while at state. On the cable shows, even the few journalists who acknowledge the lack of any evidence that Hillary and her staff did anything untoward feel the need to insist that the next batch of emails could prove otherwise.

And of course in theory it could. But as Nancy LeTourneau has observed, there is phrase for those who insist on keeping a controversy going long after enough facts are in to draw reasonable conclusions: “Merchants of Doubt.” The label comes from the book about a loose group of scientists who helped corporate and conservative political interests sow doubt in the public’s mind regarding the certainty of the science linking tobacco to lung cancer and fossil fuels to global warming. It’s the same strategy creationists use when they lobby school boards about gaps in the fossil record and how it’s important and fair-minded to “teach the controversy” about evolution.

posted by tonycpsu at 11:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [86 favorites]

I like Nate Silver and look forward to the FiveThirtyEight Podcast every week. That is all.
posted by SarahElizaP at 11:32 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm just here for the taco truck memes.
posted by clorox at 1:50 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

So, recent reactions on Twitter to the Trump Children Ad include: this, this, this and this.
posted by happyroach at 1:59 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

This happens all the time in appropriation threads etc and people being like "immigration is awesome because their food is yummy!" grosses me out after a while.

Yes, and it also confines immigrants in the culinary industry to the narrow box of their "regional cuisine," which is, more often than not, largely an American invention with a tenuous connection to their homeland. Tacos, burritos, and enchiladas are Tex-Mex creations that have only a remote connection to the vast world of Mexican and Latin-American cuisine, which includes a mind-bendingly wide array of local dishes.

The eating customs of Latin America are also cosmopolitan, with French, Italian, Japanese and other cuisines represented with aplomb. Latin Americans working in the US food industry are just as likely to be slinging pasta, spaetze and vichyssoise as they are tacos and enchiladas, and often arrive in the States after apprenticing at European or Asian restaurants in their homecountries.
posted by Gordion Knott at 2:11 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

So, recent reactions on Twitter to the Trump Children Ad include: this, this, this and this.

also this
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:13 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

The most straight-forward way to treat that ad is by changing the caption to "THIS IS ABOUT INHERITED WEALTH VERSUS ALL OF US WHO EARNED IT" #SPOILEDCHILDRENFORTRUMP
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

tonycpsu that link is a great summary of the "Clinton Foundation Situation." As someone who has previously fretted over the opportunity for corruption and for the appearance of corruption (thinking about what I'd say and feel if a Republican were in the same position) I resolve to stop fretting, now. And to point other people who are fretting to that article. The questions have been raised... and answered.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:26 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thanks for the article tonycpsu, that's perfect.

The GOP at least had an obvious political motive for refusing to admit the obvious on Benghazi. Why the mainstream press is refusing to concede the facts of its own investigations on Hillary and the Clinton Foundation is not so clear. But unless it stops that behavior and starts speaking honestly, and soon, there’s a very real chance it could throw the election to Donald Trump.. [emphasis added]

*beep**beep**beep*

What is . . Naked greed and arrogance over a real, tangible, and identified threat to America and democracy?
posted by petebest at 4:45 AM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

And for full disclosure, I learned today that I've been flagrantly misusing the expression "Netflix and chill." I thought it was literal, like I'm going home to watch some teevee and fall asleep.

Still pretty good, tbh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Jesus. That Trump kids poster is insane. I can only begin to imagine the conversation about it at Trump HQ:

TRUMP: Nice. Like the photo. Looks like the last thing a poor guy sees before he wakes up in an ice bath with no kidneys.
TRUMP KIDS: Isn't that a bad thing?
TRUMP: Nah. Rich guys needs kidneys.
posted by garius at 5:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [19 favorites]

it's possible you were enjoying the silence.

The major problem with this election cycle is the broken framing.
posted by Devonian at 5:17 AM on September 3, 2016

DNC Expands Footprint in Arizona, Georgia, Utah

. . . for some reason.
posted by petebest at 5:20 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm part of a local Our Revolution group in VA. My normally purple state looks like pretty safe Hillary territory this cycle, and we have two Democratic Senators, so our focus is on Congressional races. Currently we have three Democrats in Congress to eight Republicans. Court ordered redistricting in south-eastern VA created another likely Democratic seat, another looks very promising, and an additional district (mine) is winnable but difficult. I'm hoping we can go from R-8 D-3 to R-5 D-6 in this election. I think where Our Revolution, the former Bernie groups, can make the most difference is in GOTV efforts in off-year elections – an area where the Democrat Party needs to do a lot better – but we're not sitting out this cycle when there are competitive down-ticket races to win.

If you think working to retake congress is equivalent to 'trying to destroy the Democratic Party' and electing Trump, or that involvement in Our Revolution is just a matter of going to meetings, then so be it. But I wish you'd realize progressive Democrats who supported Bernie during the primaries are part of the Party, and we share a lot of common values, even though there are economic issues we disagree about. We have a common interest in taking the House and Senate, and holding them in 2018, and in getting more Dems elected to state legislatures.

Thanks, peeedro, for volunteering for LuAnn Bennett in the 10the district. If you live in VA, and you're in or near competitive district, that's exactly what you need to be doing.
posted by nangar at 5:26 AM on September 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

South Carolina preacher Mark Burns, who regularly introduces Trump at his campaign events, had listed on his church's website that he had a Bachelor of Science degree and served six years in the Army Reserve.

Wait for iiiit . . .

Burns, however, was never in the Army Reserve. He was in the South Carolina National Guard, from which he was discharged in 2008, CNN found.
As far as a Bachelor's degree, North Greenville University told CNN he only attended the school for one semester. Burns admitted that he did not finish his degree when CNN asked him about it.

Okay, who had,"Claims his website was 'obviously hacked'" as the excuse? Come claim your winnings.
posted by petebest at 5:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [19 favorites]

The Cylons were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many copies. And they have a plan.
posted by guiseroom at 5:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [20 favorites]

We're going to have an odd ending that people pretend to be okay with, aren't we?
posted by vbfg at 5:48 AM on September 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

That ad makes so much more sense with the millennials to snake people plugin
posted by dinty_moore at 5:55 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

Is there not a single soul in the Trump campaign that is not completely morally bankrupt? It's a cartoonish kakistocracy.
posted by thebrokedown at 5:57 AM on September 3, 2016 [18 favorites]

Trump Foundation Fined In REAL 'Pay To Play' Scheme, NYT Whiffs On Reporting It

Incorrect. Because "whiffs" implies making an attempt. At the moment NYT front page (*cyber* edition) has three stories using "FBI" and "email" together in the title. One story on that terrible Colin Kaepernick, and - hey look! - the Taco Truck story just rolled up. Ah that's great NYT. On top of things, yes.

Hey how's Judith Miller doing? Long time no see!
posted by petebest at 6:18 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Once I got the idea I couldn't resist, and it turns out Hillienne of New Tarth is surprisingly awesome.

One | Two | Three

So if Hillary's Brienne, Tim Kaine is Podrick, Chris Christie is Reek and Jeb! is Gendry, who is Trump?

I vote Cersei. They both:

Are total narcissists
Care about no one but themselves and their children
Vastly overrate their own abilities
Have no overarching strategy, just do whatever occurs to them in the moment that makes them feel good or hurts an enemy
Are excellent at holding grudges
Have flowing, golden locks of hair

posted by mosessis at 6:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

"F.B.I. Papers Offer Close Look at Hillary Clinton Email Investigation"
"6 Things We Learned in the Clinton Email Investigation"
and
"The F.B.I.'s Summary of It's Investigation of Hillary Clinton's Emails"

for those of you scoring at home.
posted by petebest at 6:29 AM on September 3, 2016

Working to retake congressional seats from the GOP is awesome and I hope that's where Sanders himself takes his messaging in the next few months.

The Clinton Rules are so dumbfuck awful I honestly don't know where to start except to ask, entirely earnestly, what can we do about it?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:35 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Idiotic news coverage is not limited to US media, apparently.

Trump ex-staffer shares secret on his core supporters: They're not who you think, from Canadian Press.

They're not who you think... they're (hold your hats)... Authoritarians! Imagine! I had NO IDEA.

Story also contains this breathless gem: "A former Donald Trump campaign insider wants to set the record straight on a major story..." followed by "He won’t discuss it in detail, but offers hints."

I'm incredibly disappointed that the media is not eviscerating the candidate who wants to limit freedom of the press.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:46 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile, ABC decides to give the dangerous f----t himself a podium.
posted by Talez at 6:47 AM on September 3, 2016

Meanwhile, ABC decides to give the dangerous f----t himself a podium.
It's OK, Talez, you can say "fascist" out loud.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:52 AM on September 3, 2016 [21 favorites]

Politico has 5 front page articles on Clinton Emails, and further down, the unctuously-titled, Steve Bannon’s ‘tough love’ in which we read,

. . . [the] CEO of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, has been accused of making inappropriate and sexually charged comments, describing subordinates with words like “c-nt.”
Former Breitbart editor-at-large Ben Shapiro called his ex-boss a “nasty” man known for “verbally abusing supposed friends and threatening enemies”

Such as
Bannon’s use of nicknames for his staff -- cruel pejoratives that implied they were “expendable, low-life creatures,” as one former employee characterized it. “Grundoon," the gibberish-speaking diapered groundhog from the comic strip Pogo, was a favorite, one former staffer said: “It refers to a low-life, a low-intelligence worker."

But then - Ah! The foreshadowing!
"It’s plain to see that the site is used as a grievance tool of Steve Bannon, irrelevant of primary politics. I only hope Trump doesn’t anger Bannon in some way and find himself in Bannon’s crosshairs, as has occurred with so many others.”
posted by petebest at 6:55 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

And while we're on the subject of Milo, someone should reacquaint him with the story of Herr Ernst Röhm. This is what happens to useful bullies once they've outlasted their utility, always.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:01 AM on September 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

Side Note to Steve Bannon's Stylist: "Woke up drunk on the floor" is not a good look for him. You may want to invest in some Visine.
posted by petebest at 7:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Bannon read Pogo? That's a hell of a note, it's left-wing by his standards. "Grundoon" is what we call little kids in our family.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:07 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

More Trump Kids at HuffPo.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:14 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm just eating up AM Joy like it's manna.
posted by cashman at 7:16 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

OK, so, all you people who are echoing "I, too, was so embarrassed to learn I had been misusing the phrase 'Netflix and chill' go mean going home, watching Netflix, and falling asleep", none of you are going to step up and explain its actual meaning to the rest of us who are similarly confused?

Its sex, isn't it?
posted by Reverend John at 7:18 AM on September 3, 2016 [18 favorites]

I don't know if anyone else is currently watching, but AM Joy is the realest real that ever realed. She is outstanding.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:18 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm watching Morning Joy for my sanity, and oh man, the black Trump surrogate just looks like an unhappy man. They haven't given him good lighting, but even beyond that Paris Dennard looks like he's on the verge of angry tears.

This fucking election.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:19 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Defending Trump is Hard, Y'all
posted by petebest at 7:20 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

This has me thinking -- I think I've seen more emotion from talking heads this election than ever before. And no matter how hateful his beliefs I still just really want to give Paris Dennard a hug.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:21 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

THE EXTENDED BLEEP.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:22 AM on September 3, 2016

Washington Post: Republican Creation of North Carolina's Monster Law

A good summary with some information on nasty Republican moves since the decision.
posted by kingless at 7:23 AM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Burns, however, was never in the Army Reserve. He was in the South Carolina National Guard, from which he was discharged in 2008, CNN found.
As far as a Bachelor's degree, North Greenville University told CNN he only attended the school for one semester. Burns admitted that he did not finish his degree when CNN asked him about it.

So delicious. Just so yummy. When he was just sitting there blinking into the camera I just lost it. That was so great. He was so strident and vocal over that blackface twitter thing, and to watch him just get served....oh so tasty.
posted by cashman at 7:23 AM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm enjoying the Trumpkinder memes a lot, but the V one has made it impossible for me to look at Ivanka without imagining her unhinging her jaw and swallowing a live rat.
posted by um at 7:25 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

FUCK YES JOY. Calling out Republican obstruction of immigration reform and talking about down ballot races. I swear to God she is better than anti-depressants.

Is there a petition to get her on primetime
posted by schadenfrau at 7:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

Some trivia about V: it was developed as an less-controversial alternative to a script about the rise of American fascism. Alien invaders were all very well, but as for fascism, it can't happen here.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

#FuckYesJoy hashtag? Seems to occupy an unwarranted amount of press attention anyway . . .
posted by petebest at 7:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

[HuffPo] Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.

That's a start, NYT. Now you try it.
posted by petebest at 7:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

"How do you prepare for a debate when one of the participants is as unpredictable as a white walker?"
posted by schadenfrau at 8:03 AM on September 3, 2016

I do want to call this now -- I think Trump is terrified of a grueling, long, one on one debate because I genuinely don't think he has the stamina. So he'll take speed. (I used to take speed; dude seems like someone who takes speed; I assume he takes speed or something speed-like.) And then we'll get red-faced, angry, aggressive Trump, and that will play in a really, really interesting way against Hillary.

I am not going to watch sober, or alone.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:09 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

So if Hillary's Brienne, Tim Kaine is Podrick, Chris Christie is Reek and Jeb! is Gendry, who is Trump?

I vote Cersei.

Absolutely not. Cersei's an awful, mostly-evil narcissist, to be sure, but she also has a genuine core of fierce strength that Trump could only dream of having.

Trump is a sadistic, petulant bully who uses cruelty to cover up his own weakness and fear. He only achieved his place in the world because of an accident of birth, but likes to pretend that he earned it.

He is quite clearly grown-up Joffrey.
posted by dersins at 8:13 AM on September 3, 2016 [61 favorites]

Yup. When Stannis Baratheon sails his fleet into New York Harbor, Donald's gonna be holed up in Trump Tower with Ivanka and Melania.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:20 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Without a valiant Tyrion to lead his defense.
posted by nubs at 8:24 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

We hope.
posted by dersins at 8:25 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Which is a shame - if there was going to be a Hand of the King, they'd have to be a small Hand.
posted by Devonian at 8:25 AM on September 3, 2016 [19 favorites]

Its sex, isn't it?

Yes.
posted by frimble at 8:50 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm not a fire-and-brimstone type Christian ordinarily, but when I hear Donald Trump quoting Biblical passages about loving one another I find myself expecting to see lightning from heaven
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:00 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

(He just quoted 1 John 4 to a black congregation in Detroit)
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:01 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

[real]
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

In a tone that several witnesses described as imperious and aggressive, Mr. Kushner suggested that the national committee might not be giving Mr. Trump all the support he was due.

Ms. Walsh pushed back strongly, telling Mr. Kushner, who has no background in politics, that the committee’s fund-raising and spending are disclosed in detail to the Federal Election Commission, according to the witnesses who were in the room and two people briefed by them afterward.

Hm. That's very . . generous? . . writing.
posted by petebest at 9:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

That was painful to listen to.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:06 AM on September 3, 2016

Great Photo on the Philadelphia Inquiry front page
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:19 AM on September 3, 2016 [52 favorites]

Trump Foundation Investigation | All In | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:23 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

From the article linked here...

"Burns said he did not know if he had been vetted by the Trump campaign."

Oh, you'd know if you had. Because it would have been extreme. Right? Or has there been a softening?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:25 AM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

He took Omarosa to the church. Dear God. And there was dancing!? I need video. Stat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:26 AM on September 3, 2016

Egg McMuffin (@Evan_McMullin):

Taco vendors like this at #MNStateFair are entrepreneurs who power the American economy. 🌮#TacoTrucksOnEveryCorner
posted by salix at 9:29 AM on September 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

And why is he wearing a tallit?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:30 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

@CNNPolitics: Donald Trump in Detroit: "I fully understand that the African American community has suffered from discrimination"

Hmm... I wonder how he knows that.
posted by dersins at 9:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

OK, I just woke up. Turned on the TV. Trump is at a church. With... Omarosa?! Ha. Hahah. Haaaaahhaaaaahhaaaa. HAAAAAHAAAAAAAHHAAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAA oh my head ouch

not really capable of analysis at the moment, sorry
posted by wallabear at 9:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I need to get back to work-- those seedlings aren't going to transplant themselves-- but I'm dying here with the church business.

Trump: “Let us turn again to our Christian heritage to lift up the soul of our nation”

.@realDonaldTrump tells church: "I believe we need a civil rights agenda for our time."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:35 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Livestream from the church.
posted by valetta at 9:41 AM on September 3, 2016

And why is he wearing a tallit?

I...don't understand this. I know what a tallit is, but why is he wearing one at church?
posted by zachlipton at 9:42 AM on September 3, 2016

Just got a note from Planet Chutzpah - it's completely out of chutzpah, because Donald has used all the chutzpah.
posted by Devonian at 9:42 AM on September 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

The tallit was a gift from the pastor of the church.
posted by mochapickle at 9:46 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Canadian cafe serves Trump Sandwich.
posted by valetta at 9:53 AM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Whoever does the LIVE SATELLITE NEWS channel has too much fun with it. Applauding Putin invariably shows up for Trump appearances. Sometimes one of the They Live monsters is inserted over Donny.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

oh there is a horrifying strand of evangelicalism that has a weird fetish for Jewish religious paraphernalia. It's mostly a white charismatic/Pentecostal thing but I guess there is some overflow into the black church as well.

I submit that you haven't truly cringed until you've seen a very very white guy standing in the middle of a evangelical church service blowing a shofar
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:03 AM on September 3, 2016 [28 favorites]

Shabbat shalom to Trump I guess?! A lot of things this campaign have left me scratching my head, but this is one of the few where I'm quite speechless.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on September 3, 2016

Here's what I don't get about the mainstream newspapers' "whiffing" of election coverage: in what way would they benefit from a Trump presidency? TV news, I can understand, but why the New York Times?

- Trump has made it clear that he doesn't care or doesn't understand the First Amendment and is perfectly ok with pissing all over the concept of freedom of the press.
- Several prominent economists have warned that Trump's economic and immigration policies would be financially ruinous. Wouldn't the monied elite who invest in/run/control the press would prefer to preserve the financial status quo?
- The Times' readership is over half college-grads, a demographic strongly in favor of Clinton. I would imagine that many of the other metropolitan newspapers are the same.

So why give Trump such an obvious pass so many, many times, especially when his fallacies and self-contradictions are as glaring as they are? Yes, horse race and all that, but do you think Fell Beast you helped to victory is going to bring you anything but ruin?

Note: I do not understand how money, influence, and world domination work at all. So my questions are more in the "I honestly don't understand" and less in the Seinfeldian "What's the deal with" vein.
posted by bibliowench at 10:07 AM on September 3, 2016 [21 favorites]

So why give Trump such an obvious pass so many, many times, especially when his fallacies and self-contradictions are as glaring as they are? Yes, horse race and all that, but do you think Fell Beast you helped to victory is going to bring you anything but ruin?

Because they don't think he's going to win anyway, and don't take the threat of rising white supremacist fascism seriously, so what's the harm?

I mean, obviously, there's a lot of harm. But not in their world.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:11 AM on September 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

> So if Hillary's Brienne, Tim Kaine is Podrick, Chris Christie is Reek and Jeb! is Gendry, who is Trump?

I vote Cersei.

This immediately made me flash to Trump's previous Lannister-iffic comments about Ivanka and his physical "friendliness" with her during the RNC. And now I need ~~some~~ much alcohol to kill the mental image.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 10:12 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Cylons were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many copies. And they have a plan.

And, just like the Cylons, they kinda don't, really.
posted by rp at 10:15 AM on September 3, 2016 [24 favorites]

Guys I know it's tempting to make the Trump campaign a Game of Thrones or a BSG thing but really please do remember that it is actually a RL version of Arrested Development.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [23 favorites]

Here's what I don't get about the mainstream newspapers' "whiffing" of election coverage: in what way would they benefit from a Trump presidency? TV news, I can understand, but why the New York Times?

This is explained, in part, by them being incredibly lazy and bad at their jobs, so if they are going to get Clinton email stories handed to them on a plate and that sells well enough then that is what they will run instead of something with actuall substance. It confers to a narrative they are used to and they don't have to think about it much or pull away from well loved narratives.
posted by Artw at 10:21 AM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

I didn't notice Putin applauding in the corner of that LIVESTREAM from the church till smiling Maggie Thatcher came bouncing down-screen. Nigel Farage popped in for a laugh, and later ... Putin acquired Gene Wilder's head? Made me even more queasy-uneasy than I already was.
posted by valetta at 10:26 AM on September 3, 2016

Artw: We have a Native American taco truck herein Seattle, I wonder how that stacks up. (It's tasty but a tiny bit overpriced and pretentious. )

If you're not near any place where Native Americans (or others) make frybread, here's a recipe to make your own Navajo tacos.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

- Trump has made it clear that he doesn't care or doesn't understand the First Amendment and is perfectly ok with pissing all over the concept of freedom of the press.

They're not thinking that far ahead - treating the vulgar talking yam as a legit candidate and the Presidential contest as "close" gets them ad dollars and page-views and therefore money now. What happens to them in a Trump presidency is a problem for next financial quarter. (This focus on immediate profit rather than long-term financial health is, arguably, a general problem with late-20th/early-21st century capitalism.)

- Several prominent economists have warned that Trump's economic and immigration policies would be financially ruinous. Wouldn't the monied elite who invest in/run/control the press would prefer to preserve the financial status quo?

Lots of Trump's economic policies are really not much different from "standard mainstream" Republican economic plans, which means the moneyed elites don't really lose that much, if anything - hell, they might wind up even richer. And Republicans have spent 50 years ignoring prominent economists and economic facts. Free-market-low-tax ideology wins over actual evidence. As in, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

- The Times' readership is over half college-grads, a demographic strongly in favor of Clinton. I would imagine that many of the other metropolitan newspapers are the same.

Not many Times readers, regardless of their dislike of Trump, are going to unsubscribe or quit reading the website over this. If anything, they might check it out more often just to see what outrageous thing The Donald has done in the last 24 hours.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:28 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Countess Elena: Junior has tweeted this fresh-faced ad, which . . .

The ad includes the #MillenialsForTrump and #StudentsForTrump. They're definitely millennials, but are any of the three Don-spawn still students?

Anyway, I love that the ad is just three of Donny's kids - not even a token intern or volunteer of color. The photo doesn't look like anything fancy - just the three of them in some office space. Wasn't there anyone else on hand to include in the photo? I don't know if it's better or worse than Paul Ryan's oh-so-white collection of interns (compared there with Democratic interns, for a stark contrast).

Back to the Don-spawn ad: the two reply tweets are currently:
christine teigen ‏@chrissyteigen
.@DonaldJTrumpJr yes I want a super outsider like someone who knows nothing about politics at all. My neighbor, Carl. He's super outside.

John Legend ‏@johnlegend
@chrissyteigen @DonaldJTrumpJr #neighborcarlforpresident. #outsider

#neighborcarlforpresident doesn't have much traction yet. (Get back in the (white) house, Coral! was my next thought)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:37 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

If you're not near any place where Native Americans (or others) make frybread, here's a recipe to make your own Navajo tacos.

Except it leaves out the recipe for fry bread. Here you go.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:47 AM on September 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump flashes humility in first ever black church visit:

Trump's first visit to a black church, which required tickets for entry and was heavily hyped, but did not draw a full crowd, There were rows and rows of empty seats in the back half of the church, even as the Trump campaign did not provide an opportunity for some local reporters to attend.
...
Trump left with his security detail after receiving the gift and before the service was over.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

He left before the service was over? Manners aside, if you're trying to convince a group of people you're one of them, grit your teeth and sit through the whole meeting.
posted by EarBucket at 11:07 AM on September 3, 2016 [48 favorites]

Trump surrogate confronted about faked biographical claims

tl;dw, Pastor Burns lied about fraternity membership, Army Reserve service, college degree, and seminary attendance.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:09 AM on September 3, 2016 [21 favorites]

But he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

No, wait, he lied about that, too -- it was actually a Super 8.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:14 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

The saddest thing about that Trump kids poster is that Tiffany isn't in it - she's much more in the millennial demo than the 30 something older kids, and just graduated college. Poor Tiff.
posted by zutalors! at 11:14 AM on September 3, 2016 [25 favorites]

bibliowench: Here's what I don't get about the mainstream newspapers' "whiffing" of election coverage: in what way would they benefit from a Trump presidency?

You're assuming they think Donny should or would win. I think papers benefit from a more competitive race, so when Donnie does Donny and Hillary is heading towards a landslide, the media narrative is boring. "Donny says something dumb again, pisses off more people" isn't a zinger after a while.

At least, that's my take. Because when Donny crows chant "lock them up" in response to comments on reporters and MSM, I don't think the major media owners are ignoring that.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on September 3, 2016

We now have a tremendous amount of granular information about the Clinton Foundation’s relationship with the State Department and with the federal government generally. In virtually every case we know of, it’s clear that Hillary and her staff behaved appropriately. Yet instead of accepting the evidence of their own investigations, much of the mainstream media expresses the attitude that these are still wide open questions.

The same goes for the email investigation. The lastest release of the FBI documents is a complete exoneration of Clinton on the email issue. Yet the press just won't let it go.

The FBI documents indicate that Clinton has been telling the complete and honest truth from the very beginning. It indicates that she was in full compliance with the Freedom of Information Act regarding records retention (in contrast to the advice given to her by Colin Powell to illegally conceal records). She never sent one single classified document in her email. She had received some emails from others that were later classified after she had left office, but those are subjective classifications after the fact and subject to debate. They were not anything marked as classified. They were simply discussions about topics that were later determined to be sensitive.

"Authors of the e-mails [to Clinton] stated that they used their best judgment in drafting the messages and that it was common practice at State to carefully word e-mails on UNCLASSIFIED networks so as to avoid sensitive details or "talk around" REDACTED classified information." In contradiction to Comey's opinion that they were extremely careless, they were in fact extremely cautious regarding classified information. In other words, they were just doing their effing jobs.

Keep in mind that all of the email accounts at the State Department at .GOV are unclassified. Everyone in government does their daily work over unclassified networks. Very few high level people have access to the special classified computers.

There was nothing illegal about using her private server or personal email. In fact is was common practice in the previous administration and there still is no prohibition on it.

The FBI source documents are quite enlightening. They indicate that FBI Director Comey did a political hatchet job in his personal report that is contradicted by the actual source documents in the FBI investigation. Keep in mind that Comey made political contributions to both McCain and Romney. (Aside)-- Why Democratic Presidents always seem to pick Republican political opponents for directing departments of defense and law enforcement is a mystery.

So in spite of the complete exoneration regarding emails, just like the complete exoneration regarding the Clinton Foundation, the press will continue to push it.

That's the Clinton Rules of media.
posted by JackFlash at 11:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [84 favorites]

Tiffany is the only one that's not actively inserting herself into the campaign spotlight and kind of seems like she wishes it would all just go away and she had a normal family instead.

I disagree with that, since Tiffany gave a speech at the convention.
posted by zutalors! at 11:31 AM on September 3, 2016

The saddest thing about that Trump kids poster is that Tiffany isn't in it

Melania Trump:

Now she found herself warming to Tiffany, perhaps more because the girl was leaving today. Tiffany was nice. Tiffany courted her. Tiffany acknowledged her power. Tiffany was different from that Czech woman’s children — she never disputed, with her manner, the primacy of Melania’s place in Donald’s life.

'The Arrangements’: A Work of Fiction, by novelist Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Maybe the press is like the Crays, they're just playing both sides buying for time until they're certain who the winner will be.

Like, if I were being charitable, maybe they're just hedging in case they don't really need to make a stand. If Trump were running a better campaign, we might see the press be more aggressive against Trump.

Neither of those more charitable hypothesis paint the press in a particularly good light.
posted by VTX at 11:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ah damn I forgot she did speak at the convention. Nevermind, it's malevolent sociopaths all the way down.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:34 AM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

You say the "rest are all little mini malevolent sociopaths' but are you including Barron in that group? I haven't seen much of him.

I wonder if Tiffany is stuck on the West Coast and just doesn't get to hang much with the East Coast spawn. Maybe that's why she isn't included in that poster.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:35 AM on September 3, 2016

Barron is an actual child so I'd consider him off limits. He couldn't take a stand even if he wanted to.
posted by zutalors! at 11:38 AM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Well he's 10, give him 8 more years and then we can decide whether he's a sociopath or not. I suppose there's always a chance he won't be, but the odds don't seem great. Just as long as those 8 years are no where near the White House family living quarters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:38 AM on September 3, 2016

Given the Iraq War, Iraq War II: The Shittening, Iran-Contra, Reagan, Sarah Palin, a fried egg on top and Spam, there are absolutely zero reasons to provide a charitable hypothesis for MSP.

Toadying incompetent f**kery hypothesis, yeah.
posted by petebest at 11:40 AM on September 3, 2016

Although if they whiff on the tallit, they're missing . . something. It's very . . I don't . . can we go back to the tacos a little bit longer?

Is it a . . rrrreference tooooo . . aaaaa . . Jewish . . holiday? Maybe?
posted by petebest at 11:51 AM on September 3, 2016

Melania Trump:

Barron had told her last night that he would not join them at dinner. “Too boring, Mom,” he had said in Slovenian. She missed his delicious younger days, when he was pliable and happy to go everywhere with her, when she would brush his hair and hold his perfect little body close and feel it almost one with hers. Now, he had an individual self, separate and wise, with knowledge of golf and video games; when she kissed him he twisted away. At least she had persuaded him to come down and say hello to the guests after they arrived.

''The Arrangements’: A Work of Fiction, by novelist Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:51 AM on September 3, 2016

Nevermind, it's malevolent sociopaths all the way down.

Oh, be kind. Her speech was more about the idea of having a decent father than any extensive experience with him. She's not an active part of the elephant-murdering, tax-dodging, contractor-stiffing family syndicate.
posted by holgate at 11:51 AM on September 3, 2016 [20 favorites]

Yet.
posted by Yowser at 11:54 AM on September 3, 2016

She doesn't get to be an Insider.
posted by Artw at 11:58 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

OK I'm reporting back from my upthread comment about being a reluctant Clinton volunteer! And thank you to those of you who answered -- the one about pretending it's a continuation of Obama's third term was the most helpful, especially because my favorite snarky political joke is about how FDR's progressive record was so popular the Republicans had to enact term limits before he could get any more done.

After signing up through the Clinton website, I showed up at the local Clinton campaign office for my 2:00 door knocking shift. Which turned out to not actually be happening. I suspect there is a slight disconnect between what is advertised on the campaign website for events in my area versus what is actually happening on the ground. But the organizer on duty in the office was very nice and personable, and now I'm signed up to do voter registration at an event on Monday I was already planning to attend anyway. I also did a bit of office paperwork while I was there. I honestly think this disconnect between what I signed up for online and the other events is more of a quirk of my neighborhood than a reflection of the campaign as a whole - I think volunteer recruitment in my neighborhood is still very face to face and done via phone.

Despite that, I'm really glad I showed up anyway. I'm a young white person who lives on the edge of a neighborhood that is very rapidly gentrifying, and virtually all of the people who came in and out of the office while I was briefly there were people of color, the majority of whom were older women. It was a good reminder that this election is not about me-me-me. And a group of church ladies stopped by the office and started an impromptu prayer circle, and it was incredibly beautiful and moving and kinda exactly what I needed with feeling like a mopey sad sack about this election.

I still think the whole "I'm With Her" motto is cheesy AF and I have major issues with Clintonian politics, but my own reservations need to take a big backseat to the non-zero percent chance that America is faced with the very serious threat of fascism. So I'm definitely planning to put in more volunteer hours on behalf of Clinton between now and November.

Thanks for the pep talk, MetaFilter.
posted by mostly vowels at 12:05 PM on September 3, 2016 [70 favorites]

Via CNN:
After Trump finished speaking, the church's pastor, Bishop Wayne Jackson, draped a prayer shawl over Trump's shoulders, much to the crowd's delight, and handed him a Jewish Heritage Study Bible.

"This is a prayer shawl straight from Israel. Whenever you're flying from coast to coast -- I know you just came back from Mexico and you'll be flying from city to city -- there is an anointing. And anointing is the power of God," Jackson said. "It's going to be sometimes in your life that you're going to feel forsaken, you're going to feel down, but the anointing is going to lift you up. I prayed over this personally and I fasted over it and I wanted to just put this on you."

Later, Trump swayed along with the music as the congregation's chorus sang.

So. There we go. If you have other questions regarding wtf, please check with your local Trump campaign office*.

*Office may not exist.
posted by petebest at 12:06 PM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

Tiffany is the only one that's not actively inserting herself into the campaign spotlight and kind of seems like she wishes it would all just go away and she had a normal family instead. She's more of the traditional idea of the candidate's children, whereas the rest are all little mini malevolent sociopaths just like Trump himself.

God, the Trump sons are every single Self–Important White Dude I’ve ever met in college or at a workplace. The sort which doesn’t hold opinions particularly strongly, and doesn’t necessarily feel the need to articulate their opinions out loud—but all that means is that they’ve never been challenged, so they assume that all their thoughts are all fantastically smart, and when they hear other people speak, you can tell that they’re thinking to themselves, “What a smart–sounding person! I bet they’d be impressed if I said something too.”

Ironically, considering who they are, this is a kind of person you can only become if you aren’t used to hard work, and thus can’t anticipate the serious efforts that thought and opinion can require of you. I find it infuriating, much more so than the angry, bitter person who refuses to see their own privilege, and even more than the wannabe intellectual sort who fails to realize their own wordiness gets in the way of people engaging them in a meaningful, fair way (or who realizes is and uses their wordiness as a weapon to keep would–be detractors down). Assuming that the only thing separating you from the world’s best and brightest is that you simply haven’t tried is… well, not wrong whatsoever! But it so devalues the importance of effort that it winds up infuriating the hell out of me. They’re too stupid to realize they’re spitting in somebody else’s face.

It’s the ultimate privilege, because you only come to it by being so well–off, and having so little inclination to test yourself despite whatever advantages you might have begun with, that you never learn to engage with another person in earnest—and you reveal that in all likeliness you’ve never been asked to. That bothers me much more than Donald Trump himself does, because—for all his wretchedness, and he is much more wretched than his sons—his blatant insecurities humanize him for me. The transparency with which he surrounds himself with sycophants, and says nasty horrible things only when he has a crowd to immediately affirm for him that it was okay to do so, is so relatable: the dude is a walking morality play teaching you how not to act. His sons, though, give me the heebie–jeebs far beyond their actions: it’s like they’re walking examples of what you shouldn’t let yourself become. Just by existing in a room they piss me off.
posted by rorgy at 12:11 PM on September 3, 2016 [27 favorites]

I may be confused on the innie/outie distinction. Which one is the vampire cult?
posted by Artw at 12:12 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I can't decide which of the Trump Boys I find more punchable. Fortunately I'm ambidextrous enough that I wouldn't have to choose.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:17 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Erik Trump all the way.

His eyes are like two despairing craters.
posted by rorgy at 12:20 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

oh my god I just realized what Erik's face reminds me of
posted by rorgy at 12:20 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Erik looks like a DJT Senior clone that just didn't work out as hoped.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 12:23 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

This is the only thing the Majora's Mask moon says in Majora's Mask and now I want to photoshop it on top of every photo of Erik Trump I can find
posted by rorgy at 12:26 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

I can't decide which of the Trump Boys I find more punchable.

If you believe in karmic retribution, then you just choose between "trampled by elephants" and "hunted down by leopards".
posted by holgate at 12:30 PM on September 3, 2016 [14 favorites]

I just realized there were two Trump sons.
posted by bongo_x at 12:34 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

WaPo: Inside the Republican creation of the North Carolina voting bill dubbed the ‘monster’ law

When the appellate court restored that week of early voting previously eliminated by HB 589, the judges did not specify what times or places the early voting would take place. Now, Republicans in many counties appear to be using that opening to carry out the intended cuts of HB 589 anyway.

In recent weeks, after the 4th Circuit’s ruling, the election board in Guilford County tried to cancel Sunday voting and slash the number of polling sites, especially in black and student-heavy neighborhoods. After hundreds disrupted a meeting with chants and protest songs, the board passed a scaled-back compromise plan. Soon after, the election board in Wake County — which includes the state capital, Raleigh — tried a similar move by restricting the restored early voting days to a single location with limited parking. And in heavily African American Lenoir County, Republican election board members are trying to eliminate Sunday voting and evening hours and slash polling sites from four to one.

When the Republican governor asked the Supreme Court to temporarily reinstate the restrictions of HB 589, he argued that the 4th Circuit struck down the law too close to Election Day, which threatened to create confusion.

He was worried, he said, about the harmful effect it could have on voters.

posted by valetta at 12:42 PM on September 3, 2016 [19 favorites]

Great Photo on the Philadelphia Inquiry front page

That photo should be the "Michael Dukakis in a tank" of this election.
posted by drezdn at 12:47 PM on September 3, 2016 [21 favorites]

It’s the ultimate privilege, because you only come to it by being so well–off, and having so little inclination to test yourself despite whatever advantages you might have begun with, that you never learn to engage with another person in earnest—and you reveal that in all likeliness you’ve never been asked to.

That's a great description of that specific kind of privilege. I've been thinking about that word, 'privilege,' lately, and how to describe the concept in its current, salient social context, especially because I'm a white dude and occasionally have to suffer some other white guy bitching about how other people "whine about privilege" while he "worked hard for what he has" and "nothing was handed to him." (And more than a few Latino dudes, wtf.)

It took me a while to find how to square that particular circle, a way to both acknowledge (and validate) to that archetypal-middle-class-white-guy that he has in fact worked hard in his life and earned what he has, while also pointing out that he didn't exactly have to start from nothing to do so. Simply saying that, 'you started with more than many people do,' has never really seemed to land in these conversations, because in my experience--even if our archetype recognizes and accepts that--it still won't strike him as unfair, because, well, that just means that his parents also worked hard, etc.

So how to frame it so that my casually indifferent, materially-stable, majority-appearing synecdoche of a conversational partner may both feel proud of his own efforts and see his own head start, but also trigger empathy and compassion for those who not only start with less but have much more in their way? A while back, it struck me: privilege, in our contemporary social context, is much more about what you have been lucky to never have to deal with rather than what you may or may not have or have been given through no effort of your own.

That's why facile dismissals of, say, poor people ('well, they just need to work harder!') are obviously stupid to anyone with any experience outside of their own, native social milieu: it's not just about effort, dumb ass, it's about obstacles and hostility and violence and systemic blocks to your success, and so much more that is beyond any individual's control: just like anyone's success. The truth is, so much of our success or failure in life is beyond our control, but many people simply have to deal with a bunch of shit that some of us do not, and wow is it way beyond time for that to be just obviously common knowledge.

(These are the things in my life that have made me feel most stupid, I think, that it took me a while to pay attention to other people in a genuine, substantial way, that I had to work to see outside of myself and my own life experience. But then I remember that it's one of those things that is so obvious and simple once you get it, but really can be deceptively difficult to get to, because feelings and egos and human beings and stuff, and since I work with young adults, I'm constantly looking for more effective ways to express this stuff, to really stick in their brains, to plant a seed that will germinate.)

I know: a big pile of 'duh' to anyone not born with privilege. And when I see that picture of those Trump kids, that's all I see: three young adults who have no idea how much shit they have never had to deal with, and who have mistaken that extraordinary luck for personal excellence or superiority. They just look stupid. But I will never displace those mistaken assumptions in anyone's head by calling them stupid, or by throwing anger and resentment at them, so I keep looking for those really effective and pithy stealth framings, ones short (so they stick), banal-seeming (so they don't trip talking-points defenses), but shocking (because it inserts an empathetic perspective in their brains). For privilege, that one has been working: it's mostly about those things that you are lucky never to deal with.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:55 PM on September 3, 2016 [24 favorites]

WaPo: Inside the Republican creation of the North Carolina voting bill dubbed the ‘monster’ law

I'm just glad the staffers were caught red handed, in writing, asking about race. Without the explicit calls about race you risk getting a McCleskey v. Kemp of voting rights. This isn't just circumstantial. Like the federal appeals court judges said, it was surgical precision.
posted by Talez at 1:09 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is just one man's opinion but:

Dennis Reynolds + Odo = Eric Trump
posted by komara at 2:04 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

valetta, thank you for that WP link. I have a sister in Asheville to whom I immediately forwarded the snippet..my question to her, in liberal, White Asheville, was, Is this making the news there? Secret Life, how about in your part of NC? Is anyone talking publicly about this?

LooseFilter, is the way in, then, to talk about the blockades? If ignorance is the first hurdle maybe it's best to attempt basic education in a gentle way, I mean if conversion is the goal. I am so glad to have read your thoughts as they mirror my experience in many ways.
posted by bird internet at 2:08 PM on September 3, 2016

Well he's 10, give him 8 more years and then we can decide whether he's a sociopath or not.

Or just give him 2 more years, and see whose campaign headquarters he's running.
posted by kythuen at 2:10 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Religious Jews probably won't care about a Christian pastor draping Donald Trump in a tallis. They may however, eyeroll hard at him being given a Messianic Christian "Jewish Heritage" Bible. It's unlikely to win him new Jewish votes.
posted by zarq at 2:19 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

where Has Hillary Clinton Been? Ask the Ultrarich

At a private fund-raiser Tuesday night at a waterfront Hamptons estate, Hillary Clinton danced alongside Jimmy Buffett, Jon Bon Jovi and Paul McCartney, and joined in a singalong finale to “Hey Jude.”

“I stand between you and the apocalypse,” a confident Mrs. Clinton declared to laughs, exhibiting a flash of self-awareness and humor to a crowd that included Calvin Klein and Harvey Weinstein and for whom the prospect of a Donald J. Trump presidency is dire.

Mr. Trump has pointed to Mrs. Clinton’s noticeably scant schedule of campaign events this summer to suggest she has been hiding from the public. But Mrs. Clinton has been more than accessible to those who reside in some of the country’s most moneyed enclaves and are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to see her. In the last two weeks of August, Mrs. Clinton raked in roughly $50 million at 22 fund-raising events, averaging around $150,000 an hour, according to a New York Times tally

You . . dicks! [/Spicoli]
posted by petebest at 2:26 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

WaPo's Comic Riffs: Can a cartoon skewer Donald Trump’s trip to Mexico? Sí se puede.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:35 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm in Asheville, and the state has been so obviously trying to wreck our city its not even funny. But it is a very white city now because the influx of people moving here has been so white. There are old wounds of urban renewal and school integration that have never been reckoned with, and a recent police shooting that is not being dealt with well by the chief who just replaced the previous chief, who was black and got pushed out because the force didn't respect him.

But we are starting to have conversations about race. I don't love the term "privilege" because privileges are good things and parents often talk about earning them. I know the term "white supremacy" is very loaded, and the first time someone hears it they shut down, get defensive, think it just means the KKK. But talking about the system being rigged in terms of white supremacy is shocking and true. It was built with intent and patched and revised but never fully torn down and reconstructed on foundations of equality. It's a system that's bad for everyone in different ways, and worst for the people who have the least.
posted by rikschell at 2:39 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

"You talk about civil rights when you engage in civil wrongs"

President of Detroit NAACP Rev. Wendell Anthony on CNN with a long, glorious, multi-dimensional response to Trump's day in church.

And on that stirring note I slide to my bed in the Australian dawn. I thank you lovely MeFites for yet another instructive and scintillating thread on your awesome election.
posted by valetta at 2:49 PM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

> I just realized there were two Trump sons.

Then this'll blow your mind. Barron's a boy-child.
posted by porpoise at 2:54 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

So many tiny hands in those WaPo cartoons. heh
posted by maggieb at 2:54 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I just realized there were two Trump sons.

Before the campaign, the only Trump progeny I had heard of was Ivanka. Eventually I came across something talking about his son, Eric, and I immediately thought, "Huh, I always pegged Trump as the sort who would go with Donald, Jr."
posted by ckape at 2:58 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Huh, I always pegged Trump as the sort who would go with Donald, Jr."

Eric should probably thank his lucky stars that he didn't get named "Donald Jr. Jr.".
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 3:03 PM on September 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

Then this'll blow your mind. Barron's a boy-child.

They just won't stop. Are there more locked up in a secret room?
posted by bongo_x at 3:05 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

"You talk about civil rights when you engage in civil wrongs"

"This is the man who went to Mexico and said one thing, and hours said something else. Will the real Donald Trump please stand up ... this is nothing but a ruse, a scam.... Old southern strategy wrapped up in a new suit."

Miss Whitfield, way to make the case for "Hillary's just as untrustworthy as Donny, what with her ongoing FBI investigations, and he has two black friends."

Yup, Dr. Ben Carson and Amarosa, and ... other notable black people.

Luckily, Rev. Wendell Anthony, President, Detroit Branch NAACP, had plenty of facts about Donnie to reset the balance of issues. He didn't have anything to say about Hillary, but the Detroit Branch of the NAACP has a website with a Hillary Clinton tag to sort related posts.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:07 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Justinian Current Panic Level: Moderate-High.
posted by Justinian at 3:24 PM on September 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

Regarding petebest's article, I've been trying to remember that Secretary Clinton is running a more traditional campaign and that she will hit the campaign trail in earnest after Labor day. That she's putting her time to better use gathering donations at fundraisers in August which can translate to more funds for all Democratic candidates to use on advertising and staff as we move closer to the election and the electorate becomes more engaged. Trying.

The constant drip drip drip of the name your Clinton Rules wannabe scandal articles is getting tiresome even for me, so it's no wonder the polls are tightening. I understand the press wants viewers and page clicks, so they've set the Trump bar low, assuming everyone will see their ridicule in the muted language they're using about him. I don't know that US citizens don't need to be more forcibly reminded of the stark differences between these candidates, though. We'll see if the press and electorate start paying attention this fall, I guess, once both candidates are traveling and the debates start. I imagine there are different debate bars for Clinton and Trump since she's experienced and intelligent while he is neither. Unfair, but I expect true.

This Atlantic piece might have been cited upthread, but it fits in here as well, since I would like to know if Secretary Clinton gets more positive coverage once she's actively campaigning again--and if anyone starts picking up on Trump's and surrogates' massive foibles. It seems that the press has been settling for the low hanging fruit of the investigation releases to fill their Clinton news coffers and not doing much else about her, while every move Trump makes is well-covered. I want them to be fair to both candidates in their coverage and maybe it will improve after Labor Day.
posted by Silverstone at 3:37 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Eric should probably thank his lucky stars that he didn't get named "Donald Jr. Jr.".

Donald, Jr. #2
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:42 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

George Foreman named all FIVE of his sons George (referred to as Jr. and III through VI). Trump isn't really trying.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:46 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Eric should probably thank his lucky stars that he didn't get named "Donald Jr. Jr.".

Even better would have been if "Donald Jr." was the younger brother.
posted by rhizome at 3:46 PM on September 3, 2016

is the way in, then, to talk about the blockades?

I think so, anything that can be a catalyst to reduce otherizing, which is so reflexive in our discourse generally. I find that ways that do not diminish any person's hard work or success to be more persuasive than those that, e.g., imply that a person did not earn what they've worked for because they were privileged to start with more (or, conversely, didn't work extraordinarily hard for what little they have); it's sort of like pointing out the difference between being smart and being thoughtful, attentive, or educated: one is an accident of birth, unearned, and the others are habits and skills and outcomes that must be earned in some way. The former is lucky, and one really should be grateful and humble if you've been lucky in that way; the latter are the result of consistent effort, and one should have pride in that no matter the starting point.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:54 PM on September 3, 2016

I think - OK, hope, but with some arguable justification - that August has been the time of assembling and testing, and we will shortly witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Battle Clinton.

Because, really. If us motley crew can see all the fragile nonsense going on in Team Trumpton, how much better would it to be on the Democratic bridge, with seasoned veterans at the controls, a war chest the size of Donnie's wildest fantasies, and O-BAM!-ah and Diamond Joe suiting up next to the flight deck?

(Subtext - any time you're ready, guys, feel free to push the button)
posted by Devonian at 4:00 PM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

Donald Tunior
posted by kirkaracha at 4:00 PM on September 3, 2016

The Clinton Rules might be partially responsible for the massive fundraising haul. Frightened donors are generous donors.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:07 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

we will shortly witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Battle Clinton.

That's been my assumption. I mean, if Trump had at any point looked like he might start becoming a credible candidate building a serious campaign, I might blink, but as long as your opponent and everyone around him are doing a virtuosic job of making him look hateful and foolish, why spend time, money, and effort trying to help?
posted by LooseFilter at 4:11 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Absolutely. Trump's caption would be "witless the firepower."
posted by rhizome at 4:56 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

The thing with the tallit is pretty crappy and appropriative; but that's down to the church more than Trump, who doesn't have a sincere bone in his body. I can't imagine Hillary doing it, though: if only Trump had a Jewish friend or associate who could have told him how bad this would make him look.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:00 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Just got a confirmation email for my canvassing stint tomorrow. My husband told me about an encounter he had with some kindly retiree neighbors who are stalwart poll workers and one of them kept talking about how scary this election is and how she can't decide who to vote for because they're both "scary". I might have to pay her a personal visit because omfg.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:10 PM on September 3, 2016 [23 favorites]

soren_lorensen: one of them kept talking about how scary this election is and how she can't decide who to vote for because they're both "scary".

I had a similar encounter a couple of months ago with someone online. It was a friend of a friend, so I couldn't do too much, but the framing blew my mind.
posted by Superplin at 5:16 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

@A_Headlines:
Did You Know? When A Candidate Standing Near African Americans Is Major News, That Candidate Is The Bigot
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:26 PM on September 3, 2016 [52 favorites]

Justinian Current Panic Level: Moderate-High.

Huh? How did the JCPL go from moderate --> moderate-high in a day? Nothing notably horrible happened....
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:44 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

if only Trump had a Jewish friend or associate who could have told him how bad this would make him look.

Or like, the guy his kid married? It's mindboggling.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:52 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

The longer that nothing notably horrible happens, the more MY anxiety, at least, builds that the next horrible thing will be even more horrible than expected.
posted by thebrokedown at 5:53 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed the change in the JCPL.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:59 PM on September 3, 2016 [26 favorites]

It's a key leading indicator, though somewhat volatile.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:59 PM on September 3, 2016 [28 favorites]

Hillary is having a rally on Tuesday in Tampa, Florida.

Hillary will be in Charlotte, NC on Thursday for a voter registration event.
posted by cashman at 6:00 PM on September 3, 2016

Yeah, give Trump his phone so he can tweet something insane!
posted by Windopaene at 6:01 PM on September 3, 2016

It's a key leading indicator, though somewhat volatile.

I maintain it's a click-bait feature for bed-wetters
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:03 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's going to be slow news until Labor Day, so we might as well start gathering for Monday's post.

Team Clinton goes into high gear on Labor Day, including a NH organizing event with Sanders. Team Trump is taking off until Tuesday.

For the roundup, I'm not sure what should be included. Here's some obvious ones.

- A Trump surrogate warned against taco truck on every corner.
- The FBI released their notes on the investigation of Secretary Clinton's emails.
- Trump spoke to an African-American congregation.

Include #nextpost with your suggestions to help whoever makes the next post round them up.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:15 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Team Clinton goes into high gear on Labor Day, including a NH organizing event with Sanders.

Genuinely glad to see this.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:22 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Bernie Sanders is campaigning for Hillary in New Hampshire on Labor Day and is likely to visit more states later this month. Barack Obama and Joe Biden have events this month.

Hillary Clinton to Unleash Her Secret Obama Weapon to Devastate Trump In October:

CNN Jeff Zeleny reported, “President Obama is on the verge of returning back to the campaign trail on September 13 in Philadelphia for Hillary Clinton, but that is not all. Democrats familiar with his schedule tell me that he is going to devote nearly all of October to campaigning for Hillary Clinton. He’s going to be, of course, trying to fire up black voters in North Carolina and in other states, but also setting his sights on Iowa and Nevada. Those are two states with more white populations, particularly Iowa, where he won, and she is struggling mightily, so look for him to be all in in October as well as Joe Biden and Michelle Obama.”

posted by kirkaracha at 6:29 PM on September 3, 2016 [18 favorites]

Huh? How did the JCPL go from moderate --> moderate-high in a day? Nothing notably horrible happened....

Some people might claim that my default panic level is moderate-high, and the month-long panic level below default was actually artificially depressed by Trump's Worst Two Weeks Ever. Some might claim that.

In any case, the last couple days of polling have not been good and when I got up today the Teevees were going on and on about how many times Clinton answered "I don't recall" in her FBI transcripts. So my panic level kicked up a notch. I need a national poll showing Clinton +6 or something to talk me down. Or perhaps some Virginia and Florida polling.

Buckle up chaps, it's going to be a bumpy ride. I will update the JCPL as necessary.
posted by Justinian at 6:31 PM on September 3, 2016 [26 favorites]

Genuinely glad to see this.

Eh, there was bickering about this upthread, but Sanders' goal is to make Congress more progressive. That puts him on the D team often, just not always.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:33 PM on September 3, 2016

Of course I'm looking at Joy Reid's twitter because there's 12 hours until AM Joy airs tomorrow. Check out what she retweeted. More Trump nonsense speak.

How is Trump going to bring back jobs? By bringing back jobs.

Source, an interview with Trump, by NBC's Dave Bondy in Michigan.

Bondy asked, "You said that you have a plan - you have a plan for African Americans. Is that something you have formalized? A lot of people, as you know, the argument, they say you talk, but you don't talk about the plans. Is there a specific plan?"

"Well, politicians talk, they don't talk," Trump answered. "I do have a plan. We're bringing our jobs back. You look at all the empty factories, all the empty warehouses you have all over this area."

"Is there an exact plan how to do that?" Bondy asked.

“Yeah, sure. I mean, but basically, we have to bring our jobs back. I mean, the real plan is we have to negotiate trade deals that are good deals, not bad deals. And we're gonna renegotiate these horrible trade deals that have been made by people that don't know what they're doing," Trump said. "And we're going to bring our jobs back. I mean, you look at the African-American community, there are no jobs - there's nothing you can do - there are no jobs. And we're gonna bring our jobs back from Mexico and from lots of other places that have taken them. And we're gonna get people that have, not only jobs, but really good-paying jobs."

posted by cashman at 6:34 PM on September 3, 2016 [24 favorites]

What good is having a bunch of press availability or whatever, and saying you're having press conferences and taking questions, when you're really just blathering tautologies and complete and utter nonsense with a side of your same old talking points.
posted by cashman at 6:37 PM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]

So no, no plan.
Just like the Cylons.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:37 PM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

Dude can you imagine if we got to watch Joy every morning instead of the Scarborough douche

(Mika can stay bc of the rage fidgeting)
posted by schadenfrau at 6:39 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

#NextPost
- Obama Surprise
- @joshgreenman How is Trump going to bring back jobs? By bringing back jobs.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:42 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Based on his expressed 'jobs plan', he's going to re-read "The Art of the Deal" to get some instructions from his old ghost-writer how to 'renegotiate' deals that are written into binding treaties with world leaders who can't be in the same room with him without breaking out laughing. It's totally a plan. More a Wile E. Coyote plan than a Cylon plan, but with the brand name TRUMP instead of ACME.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:46 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

It's the same way he 'renegotiated' to avoid paying contractors so many times in the past, except his 'Army of Lawyers' will be captured upon entering the foreign country and sent to the Hague for a War Crimes trial (because an Army of Lawyers breaks ALL the International Laws).
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:53 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

#NextPost
Who loses money on casinos?

Perhaps the insane bigotry and violence aren't a deterrent. Perhaps one thinks Trump is a good businessman, or investor, or whatever it is that he does outside of pretending to fire people on TV.

Military advisor? Himself and TV.
Hire smarter than oneself? Buncha crap.
Trump Shuttle? Vvrrrt.
Atlantic City casino? *Bzzzt*
Trump Plaza Hotel? Busted.
Trump Casinos and Resorts? Bankrupt again.
Presidential campaign?

Politico reported that as of September 1, some campaign staffers don't know who makes decisions and what the overall strategy for winning is.
posted by petebest at 7:09 PM on September 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

we might as well start gathering for Monday's post.

Hamiltitle: Honestly, its kinda draining.
posted by anastasiav at 7:11 PM on September 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

Monday is American Labor Day so that post will be our last chance to wear white.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:13 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

For MSNBC viewers, from a few days ago - Brian Williams is getting an election themed show that will air after Lawrence O'Donnell:

Brian Williams’ new, late-night newscast for MSNBC will start Tuesday. The half-hour wrap-up of the day’s presidential campaign coverage will be called “The 11th Hour with Brian Williams,” airing live Monday thru Thursday at 11 p.m. Eastern time on the NBC-owned cable news channel. It will repeat three hours later at 11 p.m. Pacific.

The program will be the first venue where viewers can find Williams on a nightly basis since he joined MSNBC in September 2015. The former “NBC Nightly News” anchor has been exclusively handling breaking news and special event coverage for the channel."
...
There no current plans to extend “The 11th Hour” beyond the presidential election in November.

posted by cashman at 7:15 PM on September 3, 2016

Who loses money on casinos?
A dishonest, incompetent son-of-a-millionaire who uses most of his energies to skim off the top and promote himself to a "MainStream Media" that never thought he was doing something wrong until he started getting cheering crowds with a racist, fascist message.

Meanwhile: “The 11th Hour with Brian Williams,” airing live Monday thru Thursday at 11 p.m. because nothing important ever happens in the campaigns Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Or did he insist on a "Daily Show" schedule because his reporting is just as much a joke, only less intentionally?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:20 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

#NextPost
Guess Who's Gonna Pay For Trump's Campaign?
(It's not Mexico.)

Again, Trump borrowed at least $160 million last year. If he borrowed this for personal reasons -- including to finance a presidential election run (which would be nondeductible) -- he should not be deducting the interest.

Trump may be claiming the loans are business ones, and the IRS may be challenging that fact. If the IRS were correct, Trump could be using an interest tax break to get all taxpayers to help finance his campaign.

Of course, there's a real easy way to put such speculation to rest. Release his tax returns.

Not gonna happen folks. . . Not gonna happen. . . Not gonna happen.
posted by petebest at 7:27 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Monday is American Labor Day so that post will be our last chance to wear white.

Professional white.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:43 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Professional white.

And NOT Supremacist White.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:54 PM on September 3, 2016

And NOT Supremacist White.

Damn PC liberals saying we can't dress up as ghosts for halloween.
posted by Talez at 7:58 PM on September 3, 2016

If Charlie Brown's ghost costume had had less eye holes, would he have looked like a Klansman? But I digress.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:03 PM on September 3, 2016

If Charlie Brown's ghost costume had had less eye holes, would he have looked like a Klansman? But I digress.

tfw you're a Conehead and just want to dress up as a ghost for Halloween.
posted by Talez at 8:13 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Jonathan Capehart, WaPo:

Stein’s excuse-making for Baraka’s “very blunt and inflammatory language” makes her no better than Trump. As is her unwillingness to not ask Baraka to apologize to the president. That is no way to talk about any African American, especially the president of the United States.

posted by salix at 8:41 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

How the press reports Clinton on Labor Day will be a good indication of whether they are locked in on a toxic combination of Clinton Rules and Gore Standards for the next couple of months.

I'd expect Trump to come up with some short-notice "squirrel!" distraction involving middle-aged white guys with moustaches (maybe some miners forced to show upbecause their rich boss forced them to give up their holiday) even though there's nothing on the schedule for either him or Pence until Tuesday.
posted by holgate at 8:51 PM on September 3, 2016

Monday is American Labor Day so that post will be our last chance to wear white.

The white clothes in my closet are angry about their diminishing role in my wardrobe. They've nominated a dirty T-shirt to speak for them, which is worrisome. And I think the shirt is working with the group of torn socks on the closet floor that wants to just burn down my whole bedroom.

My cleaning lady tells me that the white clothes' concerns are real, and I just need to better engage with them. But really, I can only wear my white tuxedo so many times a week.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:52 PM on September 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

we will shortly witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Battle Clinton.

I think we're witnessing it via the field reports in this thread. It would be nice to see Trump show up at the first debate a twitching mess because Conway supplied the downers and Bannon the uppers, but knowing that the work of contacting and engaging with millions of voters has begun in earnest matters more.
posted by holgate at 9:13 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

U.S., China Ratify Climate Deal, Making it Difficult for Trump to Scrap Agreement
The United States and China put differences aside for a few hours on Saturday as President Obama and President Xi Jinping formally committed their economies to adhere to the Paris climate deal. The move means the world’s two biggest carbon emitters have agreed to join the deal in a move that could accelerate implementation of the landmark Paris agreement before the end of the year.

posted by Joe in Australia at 9:16 PM on September 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

The white clothes in my closet are angry about their diminishing role in my wardrobe. They've nominated a dirty T-shirt to speak for them, which is worrisome. And I think the shirt is working with the group of torn socks on the closet floor that wants to just burn down my whole bedroom.

My cleaning lady tells me that the white clothes' concerns are real, and I just need to better engage with them. But really, I can only wear my white tuxedo so many times a week.

The problem isn't the clothes. The problem is society's expectations about clothes mixing in the wash and the resulting segregation of white and colored clothes that has become endemic in the fabric of our society. Separate but equal is not equal! End the segregation of white and colored clothes! Color mixing is not wrong! I dream of an America where clothes are not judged by the color of their dye but the content of their fibre!
posted by Talez at 9:17 PM on September 3, 2016

Color mixing is not wrong!
I agree and so do my pink briefs.

I dream of an America where clothes are... judged by... the content of their fibre!
No, that's not right either. Cotton is not better than nylon is not better than wool... we should only judge them by the quality of their stitching (and not by the brand names and countries on their tags).
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:23 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wash all of my clothes together but I never wear white (black cats) so it doesn't really matter. Libertarian laundry ethos or just lazy?
posted by stolyarova at 9:26 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

anastasiav: Hamiltitle: Honestly, its kinda draining.

Too Soon (still more than 60 days to go)

cashman: "Is there an exact plan how to do that?" Bondy asked. “Yeah, sure. I mean, but basically, we have to bring our jobs back. I mean, the real plan is we have to negotiate trade deals that are good deals, not bad deals. And we're gonna renegotiate these horrible trade deals that have been made by people that don't know what they're doing," Trump said.

Emphasis mine - people are missing the real plan: negotiate trade deals that are good deals, not bad deals.

Actually, has he laid out any real plans that are more than a soundbite long, and which he hasn't flipped on or undermined at a later time?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:34 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Sorta tangential, maybe, but it's a holiday weekend in the US: Labor Day. According to the US Dept of Labor, it's: the first Monday in September, a creation of the labor movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and well-being of our country.

And it's sorta been stewing in my head for a long time that the people who are so anti-labor (unions, straight-up rights, benefits, everything) celebrate this holiday without a peep, like the coda of summer. Some wan sendoff of another halcyon season of sailing thanks to peoples' actual work that goes unacknowledged except when profits are too low. (And it's a very NY-NE image in my head, for sure, but I don't think that's changed, just decentralized.) I'm well sure that this isn't an original thought, it's just hitting me pretty hard, this year.
Not sure where I'm going with this, or what to do with it. Like it's a day off work that's supposed to be the people who do the work saying "we're taking this day off because fuck you." Which is great. I just want to see all those assholes who want to deny that day-in-day-out work railing against this communistical holiday the way they bray about the "war on Christmas" or whatever. For no reason other than to have the high ground.
posted by rp at 9:38 PM on September 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

people are missing the real plan: negotiate trade deals that are good deals, not bad deals.
That's why I made the snarky comments about re-reading "The Art of the Deal"and sending in his Army of Lawyers... his plan is to handle international trade agreements like he handles workers at Mir A Lago. Which is like saying "My plan is to do a high dive like I do from my swimming pool's diving board.. but from a height of 500 yards. And instead of a swimming pool, I'll have a five-gallon bucket." It's a plan, all right. Physically impossible to accomplish without killing himself (and the three guys he hired to hold the bucket), but definitely a plan.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:47 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just want to see all those assholes who want to deny that day-in-day-out work railing against this communistical holiday the way they bray about the "war on Christmas" or whatever. For no reason other than to have the high ground.

Well, there was this a few years back, but they're usually smart enough to pretend they give a shit about the people who sign the backs of paychecks instead of the front.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:55 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Completely missed that at the time. Wow, who else hasn't thought about Cantor in a while? It's great when they go, and they're forgotten.
posted by rp at 10:06 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

mother of god, if this zombified clickbait carnival of "emails?? emails?? emails?? emails?? emails?? emails?? emails?? emails??" ends up helping to put Trump in the oval office,

i don't even have a then for that if
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 11:23 PM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

It's the email -- the email -- what-what - the email
posted by tonycpsu at 11:36 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Since we're approaching the end of this week's election thread, let me take a moment to say that this week was maybe the stupidest week in US election history. Between the Mexico visit, the taco truck stuff, the Trump children of the damned image and the press' relentless focus on Clinton nothing burgers, we've really reached a new low. There seems to be no bottom for how stupid things can get, though, so let's all brace ourselves for even greater stupidity in the coming weeks. Cry havoc and loose the dogs of dumb.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:48 AM on September 4, 2016 [30 favorites]

Oh good. Can't wait for Trump and the idiots to run with this. (Guardian)
posted by schadenfrau at 1:20 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm sure they will run with that story if only to distract from the fact that their candidate was called a liar by a nation's leader on twitter 1 hour after his first foreign visit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:56 AM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Considering how much Dishonest Donald owes the Bank of China, it's obvious that Xi Jinping is going to work just as hard to get him elected as Vlad Putin is, just to get a return on their investment.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:44 AM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

From that Guardian article:

Obama suggested his Chinese hosts might have found the size of the US delegation “a little overwhelming”.

“We’ve got a lot of planes, a lot of helicopters, a lot of cars and a lot of guys. If you are a host country, sometimes it may feel a little bit much.”

A good reply. Clearly implying that yes, the US is a world superpower with more resources and prestige than China, but in a deniable way. It works as a response to a deliberate snub or as a way of shrugging off an honest mistake. If Trump supporters read this as Obama being a weak president, they're just looking for what they want to see.
posted by Rangi at 3:59 AM on September 4, 2016 [14 favorites]

they're just looking for what they want to see

Trump supporters?! Heavens, no!
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:29 AM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

OHEY GUYS! The hillaryclinton.com/events page has heard our pleas and is now filterable on several different parameters! It's no longer a jumbled up mess of a hundred different events in no particular order! Go forth and volunteer, friends!
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:59 AM on September 4, 2016 [21 favorites]

Trump dances the same way in church that he did in the mysteriously-hard-to-find SNL skit from 2003, Trump's House of Wings.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:13 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

White supremacists raise their ugly heads in Canada.

Is this really 2016? Did we just accidentally set the clock back 50 years?
posted by Talez at 5:16 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is this really 2016? Did we just accidentally set the clock back 50 years?

I wouldn't say accidentally.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 5:23 AM on September 4, 2016 [18 favorites]

Actually, has he laid out any real plans that are more than a soundbite long, and which he hasn't flipped on or undermined at a later time?

Nope. You'd think that would be a story. At *some* point.

Also, could we get a Strongbad for Hillary animation up in this Interweb? I can't think of a good premise at the moment but there must be something . . .
posted by petebest at 5:46 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, it's something. Thank you Internets!
posted by petebest at 5:52 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

The only thing dumber than someone flying a confederate flag* in rural Michigan is flying it in rural Ontario. Quite the sideeye doubletake WTF moment. Unless, you know, maybe it isn't actually about SOUTHERN HERITAGE at all

*I refuse to say "battle flag" because really now
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:56 AM on September 4, 2016 [23 favorites]

Will he or won't he? (Debate.)

Somehow I thought he'd already committed, but it says not.
posted by petebest at 6:19 AM on September 4, 2016

What Trump's "Law and Order" America would probably look like.

After Mr. Huy sold seven grams of heroin to an undercover officer, he was sentenced to serve 35 years.

Lawyers here have a term for when defendants like Mr. Huy realize the geographic disparity: “sticker shock.”

Defense lawyers outside Dearborn County respond with disbelief as well.

“That is so far out of line with the crime itself and any common notion of decency,” Jeff Adachi, San Francisco’s public defender, said of Mr. Huy’s sentence.

posted by Talez at 6:39 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

[M]y mom asked me to design a line of scarlet-L liberal wear.

Guys! Clothing bearing the scarlet "L" exists, worn here by a worker in swing state Wisconsin's beverage industry!
posted by carmicha at 7:11 AM on September 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

Ah yes. The Hasenpfeffer Incorporated line of clothing.
posted by Talez at 7:18 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

Too Soon (still more than 60 days to go)

That's about 10 more weekly election threads, with the last one mostly being a doozy of an election night thread.

I would totally buy a shirt that says something like "I survived the 2016 Metafilter election threads."
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:24 AM on September 4, 2016 [37 favorites]

Seeing rumors on facebook that the mandatory taco trucks may just be the first step toward national sangria law, can anyone confirm/deny?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:27 AM on September 4, 2016 [48 favorites]

Joy Reid is talking about that crosscheck system that Rolling Stone reported on.
posted by cashman at 7:37 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Paris Dennard is back on AM Joy. She is really pushing on Trump atoning for his wrongs against the black community (housing discrimination, etc.). She is detailing all of the times the Clintons have had to "affirmatively" apologize for policies that they have supported and things they have said. He is literally responding that Trump has said he is sorry if people were offended by some of the things he said. Nice.

For those that haven't tuned in yet, she is teasing Star Trek and changing the rules of the game. I'm pretty sure she's hinting at Kobayashi Maru.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:38 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

More Malcolm Nance, less Paris Dennard. Think less Dennard, and no Dennard.
posted by cashman at 7:42 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Not gonna lie, glad I missed the Paris Dennard segment. And love the nerd crush Joy has on John McWhorter.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:58 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

First Lady Hillary Clinton on Letterman (Jan 2000)

She did the Top 10, which was "reasons [she] finally decided to appear on the Late Show." Number five was "I needed an excuse to get out of dinner with Donald Trump."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:58 AM on September 4, 2016 [39 favorites]

Joy is about to address how the media is trying too hard to make Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton equal. Oh I hope this is good.
posted by cashman at 8:01 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

And with JD Vance and Hillbilly Elegy about to get the critical treatment it hasn't gotten from, say, Chris Matthews.

Well, maybe.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:05 AM on September 4, 2016

So, I was just at Target and they have these election themed greeting cards that I just found utterly baffling. Like, one of them on the front says "VOTE DEMOCRAT" and on the inside says "Because 'climate change' is 'real.'" Yes, with the scare quotes. But there's another that says "VOTE REPUBLICAN" and on the inside says "Because tax cuts are more important than people!"

The rest just seemed to be along the lines of "Ugh Democracy, so tedious, amirite?"

Has anyone else encountered these? I took some pictures just to prove I want hallucinating, but I'm just... what?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:14 AM on September 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

Tablet: The Five Best Explanations for Why Donald Trump Wore a Jewish Prayer Shawl at a Church Event on Saturday

I'm fond of this one:

1. Trump wanted to put on tefillin (phylacteries), but they didn’t have any that fit his tiny, tiny hands.

posted by zachlipton at 8:18 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Has anyone else encountered these?

My local supermarket in bluest Brooklyn had Hillary and Trump branded chocolate bars. The labels were printed to look like money, with each candidate's face on the...well, fake money. The Clinton money bar was for a $10 bill; the Trump one for a $1,000,000 bill.

I stared at them for a while and then went, well one of them is obviously fraudulent, sounds about right, and moved on.

I think it's just that people in the fast private label business / novelty item business jump on trends quick.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:28 AM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

14 Excerpts From the FBI's Report on Hillary Clinton's Email:

...this report is pretty much an almost complete exoneration of Hillary Clinton. She wasn't prohibited from using a personal device or a personal email account, and others at [S]tate did it routinely. She's told the truth all along about why she did it. Colin Powell did indeed advise her about using personal email shortly after she took office, but she chose to follow the rules rather than skirt them, as Powell did. She didn't take her BlackBerry into her office. She communicated with only a very select group of 13 people. She took no part in deciding which emails were personal before handing them over to State. She had nothing to do with erasing information on the PRN server. That was a screw-up on PRN's end. She and her staff all believed at the time that they were careful not to conduct sensitive conversations over unclassified email systems. And there's no evidence that her server was ever hacked.

posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on September 4, 2016 [66 favorites]

Although, come to think of it, I'm interested in whether partisan conservative items typically outsell partisan liberal items, and what styles of partisan declaration are most profitable. If I had to guess just based on the cursorily apparent size of the markets, I'd say that tribal conservatives by a lot more stuff meant to declare their affiliation by poking fun at or otherwise annoying liberals. Like tribal declaration + humor = $ for this particular group.

For the most part, I'm not sure liberals support these types of markets? Like we seem to be more earnest? Huh.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:34 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Guys, it's official - Snow/Mormont won.
posted by zakur at 8:37 AM on September 4, 2016

"If Trump gets elected, which I don't think will happen, a lot of people in the media will have a long, dark night of the soul."

She didn't say it, but she set it up. Is there anywhere I can pledge fealty to Joy Reid
posted by schadenfrau at 8:40 AM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

So, I was just at Target and they have these election themed greeting cards that I just found utterly baffling. Like, one of them on the front says "VOTE DEMOCRAT" and on the inside says "Because 'climate change' is 'real.'" Yes, with the scare quotes. But there's another that says "VOTE REPUBLICAN" and on the inside says "Because tax cuts are more important than people!"

Living in rural Trumpistan, we only get the anti-Democrat-themed merchandise.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:40 AM on September 4, 2016

Went to the Evergreen State Fair yesterday and the was a sad looking Trump stand outside it, and we saw one guy in a Trump T-shirt, but overall less of a depressing presence than might be expected.
posted by Artw at 8:51 AM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh. My. God! Jamil Smith and Joy Reid talking Trek!
posted by Sophie1 at 8:54 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's a shame Joy couldn't have had Chuck Todd on during that false equivalency segment. I'm sure he has some interesting thoughts on the matter.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:59 AM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

From the 14-reasons article linked above:

I'm only including this because, WTF? How often did Hillary's BlackBerries malfunction? If she had eight in four years, it means they each lasted about six months. Why were they so fragile? Did they just buy a new BlackBerry every time there was some kind of bug they couldn't figure out how to resolve?

Point of comparison. About 5 years ago I was a direct report of a C-level executive at a small-to-medium sized company (around 450 employees). She was warm, kind, incredibly tough and incredibly busy. Later she became president of this organization (where I still work, just in a different role. She used, and still uses, a Blackberry for her email.

During the time I worked for her, which was just under 2 years, she replaced her Blackberry at least 3-4 times. She didn't have time or inclination to deal with having it checked out or replaced if there was a problem. Her calendar was insane - there was never a free block during the work day. If she thought something was wrong with her Blackberry, she'd call IT and have someone come up from the service desk and take hers away, leaving a new one which had been set up for her and which she could start using immediately.

She's not the most tech-savvy person; that's not where her strengths lie. She might ask for a new one because she dropped hers and cracked the screen; she might ask for a new one because she felt like emails were "delayed" getting to the device. I know at one point she got one replaced during a huge Blackberry outage - there was nothing wrong with her actual Blackberry, but she didn't know it, so she called IT and they brought her a new one.

And she was just a C-level exec at a mid-sized business, not Secretary of State for the United States of America. Hillary Clinton, I would imagine, could only be even busier and even LESS inclined to go without her Blackberry while IT tried to figure out if it was broken and if they could fix it.
posted by kythuen at 9:24 AM on September 4, 2016 [42 favorites]

Special 2 hours of Joy Reid tomorrow from 5pm-7pm!

It wasn't listed on there previously, and is currently just billed as the place for politics on MSNBC for the 5pm-6pm time block and the 6pm-7pm time block. So if you're setting a recording, you may have to set two.

I say this to say that what I hope is happening is that she's getting more of an audience and as a result she's getting more prime time air, and the more people that tune in, hopefully the more chance she gets her own permanent prime time slot. Some times her show is the only thing that keeps me sane, and it's the only place I consistently see the concerns and issues we raise in this thread appearing on national television. She's doing it right in so many ways.
posted by cashman at 9:24 AM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

She played a Chuck Todd clip to open the false equivalency / Clinton Rules segment. My love for her grows every time she does anything, at this point. She's definitely the main reason I watch MSNBC.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:36 AM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

On Twitter, Norm Ornstein has been all over the media's biased coverage of Clinton and shoddy accounting of Trump. Here's a Twitter exchange between Ornstein and Roger Cohen of the NYT.
posted by madamjujujive at 9:39 AM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

I wonder if it has occurred to the Times management that 30 years of anti-Clinton and pro-Republican bias has anything to do with their shrinking subscriber base. I should be a Times subscriber, but I grew up with the Clinton scandals, came of age during the W years with their Iraq bullshit, and now we get Clinton 2: The Misogyning.

I'm a mid-thirties New Yorker, single, female, live alone, and make enough to be comfortably middle class in NYC. I would like to subscribe to a Times-like paper, but the Times? Not in a million years will I pay to be this pissed off, this frequently. I don't know how representative I am, but I'm probably not a total outlier.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:53 AM on September 4, 2016 [31 favorites]

Sanders on MTP on the Clinton Foundation: "At the very least she should not be involved. At the very least."

She's not involved now Bernie! Jesus, with surrogates like this....
posted by chris24 at 9:47 AM on September 4 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

For like five minutes I wasn't annoyed

AM Joy needs an extended release form
posted by schadenfrau at 9:57 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

The NYT was a prime cheerleader in smoothing the way to the Iraq war. They are in the process of doing the same for Trump.
posted by madamjujujive at 9:59 AM on September 4, 2016 [15 favorites]

The story the media wants to write about the Clintons exists, but it looks more and more like it won’t be written, because it’s about Trump.
posted by miorita at 10:24 AM on September 4, 2016 [37 favorites]

"The Times uniquely, though only as a leading example for the rest of the national press, has a decades' long history of being lead around by rightwing opposition researchers into dead ends which amount to journalistic comedy - especially when it comes to the Clintons."

They really are just credulous to the point of...tiddlywinks clown shoes, idek. It's a gd farce, and if we're stuck with it I wish Democratic operatives would get better at it.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:27 AM on September 4, 2016 [10 favorites]

petebest: Will he or won't he? (Debate.)

More details, from an interview that Donny did with TIME Magazine: Donald Trump Says ‘I Want to Debate Very Badly.’ But He Has Conditions

“I will absolutely do three debates,” Trump told TIME in a phone interview. “I want to debate very badly. But I have to see the conditions.”

...

“I renegotiated the debates in the primaries, remember? They were making a fortune on them and they had us in for three and a half hours and I said that’s ridiculous,” Trump said. “I’m sure they’ll be open to any suggestions I have, because I think they’ll be very fair suggestions. But I haven’t [seen the conditions] yet. They’re actually presented to me tonight.”

Trump said he reserved the right to object to the commission’s choice of moderators, which have not yet been announced. The choice has stirred controversy before. In 2012, Republicans bristled after CNN’s Candy Crowley inserted herself into an exchange between Presidential Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney.

“I’ll have to see who the moderators are. Yeah, I would say that certain moderators would be unacceptable, absolutely,” Trump said. “I did very well in the debates on the primaries. According to the polls, I won all of them. So I look forward to the debates. But, yeah, I want to have fair moderators … I will demand fair moderators.”

Because you wouldn't want that mean Megyn Kelly, who asked Donny about the things he said in the past regarding women and his politics (he has previously registered as a Democrat and independent). That wasn't fair, bringing up things Donny said previously.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:31 AM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump Says ‘I Want to Debate Very Badly.’

Don't worry, Donald -- you will.
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on September 4, 2016 [87 favorites]

Some "old" news: Clinton-Trump debate sites plan for a third podium
With third-party candidates hovering near the threshold, the debate commission advises hosts to consider a bigger stage. (Politico, August 9, 2016)

“With [former Gov.] Gary Johnson polling in some places more than double digits, they might have, some of our production people may have said, ‘Just in case, you need to plan out what that might look like,’” Commission on Presidential Debates co-chair and former Bill Clinton White House Press Secretary Mike McCurry told POLITICO. "We won’t know the number of invitations we extend until mid-September."

posted by filthy light thief at 10:36 AM on September 4, 2016

Aaaahhh soren_lorensen I saw them too last night! There was one that said something to the effect of "A woman?! In the White House?!" and then inside said "finally, something's going to get done!" (Terrible paraphrase, but still.) I honestly can't think of an occasion that would warrant such cards. Maybe a death?
posted by mynameisluka at 10:44 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

“With [former Gov.] Gary Johnson polling in some places more than double digits, they might have, some of our production people may have said, ‘Just in case, you need to plan out what that might look like,’” Commission on Presidential Debates co-chair and former Bill Clinton White House Press Secretary Mike McCurry told POLITICO. "We won’t know the number of invitations we extend until mid-September."

There are five specific polls the debates are going to take. Johnson needs an average of 15% between the five of them and as at the end of August hadn't broken the 11% mark on any of them.
posted by Francis at 10:52 AM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

If she thought something was wrong with her Blackberry, she'd call IT and have someone come up

I totally identify with that now. It me. I laugh, because at one time I was all computer-guy, slackware linux at home, volunteer IT guy for my org. Now I can't be assed to even screw around with my outlook settings. One of my network drives not mapping properly in the logon script? Someone get IT on it. That's what they're for.

And I'm not even tempted to pick at their explanations when they fix it. "You must have corrupted your hosts file?" Ok, then it's fixed now? Thanks bye.

I'm probably an IT customer service desk nightmare. That used to bother me, but *shrug*
posted by ctmf at 10:57 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

CNN: Ariz. GOP Sen. Flake warns Clinton could carry the state
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:59 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Driving around doing errands yesterday in Fairbanks AK, I heard two or three radio ads for Gary Johnson in the commercial breaks.

(And apparently Alaska has been polled a grand total of...once)
posted by leahwrenn at 11:02 AM on September 4, 2016

Francis, thanks for the clarification. Here's a newer Politico piece (Sept. 1, 2016), which averages his latest polls with ABC News/Washington Post, CBS News/New York Times, CNN/ORC, Fox News and NBC News/Wall Street Journal at 9.2 percent, down from a pre-convention high of 10.8 percent, and he has a number of issues against him increasing that percentage.

First, most of those polls will shift to "likely voters" in their next polls, so he and Jill Stein are likely to see their percentages drop, plus his limited funding is focused on radio ads, which don't have the same coverage or traction as (more expensive) television ads.

Driving around doing errands yesterday in Fairbanks AK, I heard two or three radio ads for Gary Johnson in the commercial breaks.

I don't have a lot of car time, and rarely do I listen to the radio beyond local community/ college stations, so I haven't heard those here in his home state of New Mexico, but I'm seeing a lot of Gary Johnson ads online, though I'm also seeing ads for Donny and Hillary.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:05 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Joy going in on Rudy Giuliani on Twitter right now. There's 5 tweets so far.

On Preview: 6 tweets.
posted by cashman at 11:16 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

While watching Fox News in the on-base gym, I saw a TV ad for Johnson, with the tag line, "Make the Honorable Choice." His military support is pretty high. I think he's just spending his money carefully in targeted buys.
posted by corb at 11:17 AM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

As long as we're nearing the end of this thread, may I vent?

Hillary, I've already sent you lots of money. Just send me the damn stickers.

Thank you. Vent complete.
posted by DanSachs at 11:23 AM on September 4, 2016 [17 favorites]

For real, has anyone down here in the thread gotten any Clinton merch in the last month? I emailed customer service earlier this week about my Aug. 1 order and have heard only crickets.
posted by Mothlight at 11:30 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

With [former Gov.] Gary Johnson polling in some places more than double digits...

So... triple digits?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:34 AM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

In "could this election get any stupider" news, I present:

In case anyone is unsure as to who will be our next #POTUS, the Lord has chosen the people's messenger. [picture of Trump-shaped cloud]

(Since this came from @MichaelCohen212, the correct response is "says who?" Several Twitter users have already done so.)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:35 AM on September 4, 2016 [10 favorites]

For real, has anyone down here in the thread gotten any Clinton merch in the last month?

My bumper stickers arrived early last week, about a month after I ordered them.
posted by carmicha at 11:37 AM on September 4, 2016

also, the correct answer is always "yes, it can get stupider."
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:39 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

Field report!

Just finished up my canvassing packet and have stopped at Starbucks to cool off and reward myself for doing something waaaay outside my comfort zone before heading back to turn my papers in.

Mostly people just aren't home/not answering the door. I had two really positive contacts, one with an old lady who was just over the moon about a woman president in her lifetime. A couple undecided *close door*, one "I'm a republican." And before I even started I stopped at a gas station to get some breath mints and the young lady there asked me why I had a clip board and I said I was canvassing for Hillary and she trotted out that same baffling "I'm scared of both of them" line. Who is peddling this talking point? Is this Bernie residue? I just asked what she found scary about Hillary and she immediately pivoted to how scary Trump is, which was a point we could agree on. I just wanted to leave her with the impression that yes, Virginia, there are enthusiastic loud and proud Hillary voters out there and for the love of Pete she's not scary.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:40 AM on September 4, 2016 [40 favorites]

I got my bumper stickers about two weeks ago. I ordered them during the DNC.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:40 AM on September 4, 2016

My t-shirt came two weeks or so after I ordered it at the end of the convention! Admittedly, for a less-popular state. But I'm still waiting for some buttons.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:45 AM on September 4, 2016

My Clinton swag hasn't appeared either. Also, thread too long for tablet to respond easily.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:50 AM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I've learned that using Safari is best if you're on iOS for these mega streams.
posted by Yowser at 11:57 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

ChurchHatesTucker: CNN: Ariz. GOP Sen. Flake warns Clinton could carry the state

I and many others are working hard to make this come true.
Probably the first and last time I can say that about any statement by Jeff Flake.
posted by Superplin at 12:05 PM on September 4, 2016 [19 favorites]

Reminder: using the classic theme helps on mobile devices. You can set it in your Preferences page.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:06 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I got my buttons two weeks ago and have rocked them while busking.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:07 PM on September 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

I ordered my Clinton t-shirt during Trump's RNC speech and got it last Friday. I had emailed them a few days before asking for a status update--apparently (some?) shipping notifications aren't going out. Still no sign of stickers, though they seem to have started popping up in parking lots around here (Atlanta) in the past week.
posted by lemonadeheretic at 12:13 PM on September 4, 2016

Driving around doing errands yesterday in Fairbanks AK, I heard two or three radio ads for Gary Johnson in the commercial breaks.

He's doing a ton of spots on the sports radio show that I stream daily, which is based in Kentucky but reaches a substantial audience in Indiana and southern Ohio.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on September 4, 2016

Soledad O’Brien: "You have normalized" white supremacy with shoddy Trump reporting

“I’ve seen on-air, white supremacists being interviewed because they are Trump delegates,” she noted. “And they do a five minute segment, the first minute or so talking about what they believe as white supremacists. So you have normalized that.”

“And then Donald Trump will say, ‘Hillary Clinton, she’s a bigot.’ And it’s covered, the journalist part comes in, ‘They trade barbs. He said she’s a bigot and she points out that he might be appealing to racists.’ It only becomes ‘he said, she said.’ When in actuality, the fact that Donald Trump said she’s a bigot without the long laundry list of evidence, which if you looked at Hillary Clinton’s speech, she actually did have a lot of really good factual evidence that we would all agree that are things that have happened and do exist. They are treated as if they are equal.”

posted by tonycpsu at 12:45 PM on September 4, 2016 [79 favorites]

she trotted out that same baffling "I'm scared of both of them" line. Who is peddling this talking point?

Chuck Todd.
posted by petebest at 12:57 PM on September 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

That Giuliani take down is simple, direct, truthful, and long overdue.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:06 PM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, an adviser for Donald Trump’s campaign, on Sunday called on Democrats to apologize for calling the GOP nominee racist over his claim that President Barack Obama was born in Africa.

Well, we should probably just let that one go I mean. Who's really right in all this, right Chuck Todd? So confusing! They're both so terrible.
posted by petebest at 1:12 PM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

Trump could use the fucking phrase "chimping out" and Ghouliani would be out there spewing vomit on cable news on how Trump wasn't being racist.
posted by Talez at 1:46 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Spathe Cadet: In "could this election get any stupider" news, I present: In case anyone is unsure as to who will be our next #POTUS, the Lord has chosen the people's messenger. [picture of Trump-shaped cloud]

The Lord is as fickle as Donny, because said cloud turned into a cheeseburger within 20 minutes, then a bunny or maybe a dragon, and then a weird looking tree.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:32 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Soledad actually has her own show, called Matter of Fact, that is airing season 2 starting next week. I saw it last night when I saw the news about Brian Williams' show but some of the characterization of the show left me wondering. But I love her comments about current journalism on stations like CNN and MSNBC (I can only assume Fox is much, much worse). In Broadcasting & Cable, there's an interview with her related to the show:

How are you going to get people to watch another Sunday talk show? The Sunday morning shows are very D.C.-heavy, and I don't want to cover the inside baseball in politics. You have to illuminate important issues and elevate the voices of people who are knee-deep into those issues. On poverty, rarely do you actually get to hear from someone who is poor, who can say, ‘Let me explain why I make bad choices. Let me explain to you about where my money goes and how this works.’

Aren't viewers pretty burned out on politics at this point? I would like to expand the definition of politics and look at it in a more interesting way. Politics is the school your kids go to, your job and whether it's going to leave the country. We have a very thin definition of politics, which is what Hillary and Trump say. People actually care more about how their son is going to pay for college.

Does being a big proponent of racial and gender equality influence your work? I've never thought of myself as an advocate of social change. I think of myself as elevating stories that show different versions of the issues. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't happen in this country around social change because people don't talk about it. If I'm an advocate for anything, it's for having those conversations. I love unfolding those conversations to the point where people are very uncomfortable, and are trying to understand what is really being discussed.

How is the broadcasting industry doing on addressing diversity? We are doing terribly. The only category that's grown dramatically is Hispanics, and that's because it was so small to begin with. You can grow from 1% to 2%. And the number of African-Americans is quite poor, quite depressing. It's really a great loss, especially when race is an issue we should be having more conversations about. It's the same around gender. I see it running my production company. You have to be intentional about these things. You have to sit down and think about the makeup of your company if you don't want to look up one day and see you are not where you want to be.

How is your foundation working on these issues? If you want to have access to young people in poverty, you have to do something to help. We had six interns stay in my apartment this summer. If they can't afford a place to live, they're stuck. If a girl is in a stable, middle-class family, writing them a check is really great. But if they are not, that check won't get them through college. It's very hard to overcome all the things that trip you up.

In that same interview, she also says she's addicted to Twitter.
posted by cashman at 2:49 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

YES. CBS released some good polls out of PA and NC. Now give me a decent poll out of FL or VA, plus at least an OK national poll and perhaps things will settle down.

JCPL: Moderate.
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on September 4, 2016 [22 favorites]

They are treated as if they are equal

I have recommended James Fallows' Breaking the News in the past, and his observations on why this happens seem more prescient than ever. Clinton has serious, problematic issues as a supposed left-wing candidate, especially around militarism and corporate influence, but on the issues of racism and race relations, Trump and Hillary are factually, objectively worlds apart. It is clear that the media has an agenda when its outlets decide to minimize Trump's connections to white supremacy movements in this way: falsely equating the two candidates keeps media consumers engaged.

By not dealing with the history of Republicans and white power movements in an honest manner, the media helps prop up a two-party system that they can treat as an ongoing feud of equals, feeding advertisers a fresh supply of news consumers who keep tuning in to an empty, substance-free drama. "How dare they smear my preferred candidate!"

I'm not sure what the solutions are. The free market economy created the media in its current incarnation; any kind of (legal) intervention would get treated as a First Amendment issue, when it isn't about freedom of speech, but about interfering with a fat advertising revenue stream. The real substance of what makes political candidates problematic goes undiscussed and everyone keeps collecting a paycheck or keeps tuning in.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [13 favorites]

The free market economy created the media in its current incarnation

I disagree, and point to Avenger's great comment from 8 years ago.

See, for a long time, journalism was an extremely important, respected profession. Not always of course (see Yellow Journalism in America 1776-1914), but I think its safe to say that for the latter half of the 20th century, journalism was understood as a means of providing the facts about the world around us to the American people.

And right-wingers hated it. Hated it.

Not that journalism as a whole was ever "left-wing" (you'd be hard pressed to find actual Marxists at the NYT within the past 50 years, I bet), but that journalism generally strived to tell the truth about what was happening, no matter what. That kind of behavior just isn't conductive to creating an authoritarian-nationalist state -- the kind of state which, by it's very nature, is founded upon comfortable lies and unquestioned propaganda -- so right-wingers hated journos with a passion.

So they set about trying to destroy journalism itself. And I'd have to admit, it seems that they have been largely successful. Their strategy was simple: slowly turn journalism back from a serious and respected profession into a yellow tabloid-entertainment-propaganda machine like it was in the 1800's. Then it won't matter that the "liberal media" exposes (say) the President stealing money from the public treasury to fund right-wing dictators in South America, because, look, here's a picture of Olbermann with a funny Jew-nose! See! He must be some kind of commie! Ha ha!

And people buy it. People come away with the feeling that all news is just lies told by various political factions, that something approaching objectivity is impossible and that it's useless to get involved, get angry and start voting these fuckers out of office, because we'll just be electing a new liar-in-chief with his own friendly journos to support him.

And thats exactly what they want. Thats what all fascists want. They want to discredit democracy and journalism to the point where people won't be sad when both of those institutions are finally swept away, either officially or otherwise.

And eight years later, that's exactly where we're at. The white supremacist alt right trying to discredit democracy itself, and Trump saying journalists are the lowest form of life.
posted by cashman at 3:01 PM on September 4, 2016 [96 favorites]

I didn't see this Joy Reid moment mentioned: Yesterday she had a Southern R on and he started to say something about "the Democrat party" and she interrupted him and said, "We say Democratic here." 😍

Frank Luntz is a bad man.

Ben Carson Abandons CNN In The Middle Of An Interview To Go Find His Luggage

Re Giuliani, wasn't he reviled in NYC before 9/11 for trying to move his mistress into Gracie Mansion?
posted by Room 641-A at 3:02 PM on September 4, 2016 [17 favorites]

VERY relevant, re: The Media
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:09 PM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

I would be totally scared of Clinton if I was her employee and I fucked something up for her.

If I wasn't her employee, I would so totally trust her to make sure I drank water with my whiskey, that I got enough sleep, remind me that protein is important, express great interest in the book about the Mexican-American war I'm reading, and maybe she'll have picked up a sweet little skirt that she saw and knew would look perfect on me.

I guess I'm saying I see HRC as my dearly departed Grams, whom I loved fiercely and would follow into battle if she said a word.

So why are people scared of her? Did they have evil Grams? Do they just need a hug?
posted by angrycat at 3:30 PM on September 4, 2016 [20 favorites]

Yeah, I've definitely come to see the discrediting of democracy, all institutions and facts themselves as the ultimate goal of the right wing, and they've succeeded in a disturbingly large segment of the population. Including leftists, unwittingly.

My husband and I were having good three minutes hate on Trump in the car yesterday and he said something to the effect that Hillary is a bourgeois liberal (won't dispute that) but somehow she has a higher bar even in the left than all the other bourgeois liberals, which are legion. Anyway, he's totally right about all of that but it really made me want to take him and all his leftist too cool for democracy armchair radical brethren and be like OH BY THE WAY YOU ARE ALSO BOURGEOIS, EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU. You're holding the institutions of government to a different standard than you hold yourselves because it's easier than either confronting your own bougie life choices or getting serious what solutions you do believe are workable rather than spending all your time talking poo pooing bourgeois liberals. They are carrying water for the Right every time they lazily blow galoise smoke and talk about how all politics is bourgeois nonsense and all political institutions are the tool of the Man and voting is useless and pointless while simultaneously benefiting from massive amounts of privilege afforded to them by dint of having no barrier to their own franchise ever in their entire lives. Tell a poor person of color in North Carolina that voting doesn't matter, I fucking dare you.

/tail end of thread rant
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:31 PM on September 4, 2016 [55 favorites]

AP: Greg Abbot Fiven 35k Campaign Donation by Trump after Trump University Probe Dropped

That's two.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:35 PM on September 4, 2016 [35 favorites]

Their strategy was simple: slowly turn journalism back from a serious and respected profession into a yellow tabloid-entertainment-propaganda machine like it was in the 1800's.

To be fair to the right, when CNN and MSNBC fall over themselves and each other to race to become the next FOX News, that isn't the fault of the right. It seems like we should be able to grant some agency to the people who choose to turn the latest celebrity event, say, into a Breaking News event on the level of a 9/11.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:37 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

That's two.

Media: Yes, but why won't HRC give a press conference?
posted by PenDevil at 3:39 PM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yesterday she had a Southern R on and he started to say something about "the Democrat party"

Y'know, I have never understood the underlying message of that particular dogwhistle. Is there some sort of cryptogrammatical cabal which denies the existence of adjectives or something?
posted by jackbishop at 3:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Unless, you know, maybe it isn't actually about SOUTHERN HERITAGE at all

Yeah I had that moment listening to a podcast of a guy going into rural Canada for a story and describing the confederate flag in a window. I was BOGGLED. Like, wait, what the fuck is that supposed to be saying? I'm celebrating the heritage of some people 2000 miles away in another country? Or maybe it's just "I hate non-white people." Like, seriously, this is not looking good for all the confederate flag apologists. (Of which I know a few, mostly civil war reinactors.)
posted by threeturtles at 3:53 PM on September 4, 2016

Very different place, very different context, but: I have seen the Confederate flag on a housing estate in Bradford in the north of England.
posted by vbfg at 3:55 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

A (male) Attorney General in Texas was given $35,000 to make an investigation against Trump University go away, while a (female) Attorney General in Florida was given $25,000 to make an investigation against Trump University go away.

Hell, even in his bribes women only get 70 cents for every dollar he pays men.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:59 PM on September 4, 2016 [152 favorites]

Yesterday she had a Southern R on and he started to say something about "the Democrat party"

Y'know, I have never understood the underlying message of that particular dogwhistle. Is there some sort of cryptogrammatical cabal which denies the existence of adjectives or something?

It's because they don't want to cede the ground of being "democratic", because they see the Democratic Party as the party of "special interests" (e.g., black people who don't want to be redlined and killed; LGBTQ people who want to be able to oppress good Christians into baking them cakes). Real democracy, after all, is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.
posted by Etrigan at 4:05 PM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

Is there some sort of cryptogrammatical cabal which denies the existence of adjectives or something?

Media Matters: The ungrammatical conversion of the noun "Democrat" to an adjective was the brainchild of Republican partisans, presumably an attempt to deny the opposing party the claim to being "democratic" -- or in the words of New Yorker magazine senior editor Hendrik Hertzberg, "to deny the enemy the positive connotations of its chosen appellation." In the early 1990s, apparently due largely to the urging of then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) and Republican pollster Frank Luntz, the use of the word "Democrat" as an adjective became near-universal among Republicans.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:06 PM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

It's because they don't want to cede the ground of being "democratic", because they see the Democratic Party as the party of "special interests" (e.g., black people who don't want to be redlined and killed; LGBTQ people who want to be able to oppress good Christians into baking them cakes). Real democracy, after all, is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.

This, but also a lot of Democrats don't like it. So, say you're twelve years old and you find out your classmate named James hates being called Jimbo. So that's what you call him.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:09 PM on September 4, 2016 [22 favorites]

Yeah I had that moment listening to a podcast of a guy going into rural Canada for a story and describing the confederate flag in a window. I was BOGGLED. Like, wait, what the fuck is that supposed to be saying? I'm celebrating the heritage of some people 2000 miles away in another country? Or maybe it's just "I hate non-white people." Like, seriously, this is not looking good for all the confederate flag apologists. (Of which I know a few, mostly civil war reinactors.)

I've got pictures from 10 years ago of known Canadian white power people at a protest with confederate flag symbols. At least one had it as a patch on his jacket. In this case they were protesting a First Nations group that was protesting a land issue. It's symbolism is pretty obvious when seen in this context.

Honestly after several occasions of facing off with those dudes the flag give me the same feeling that the Nazi flag does, probably because these dudes displayed them together.
posted by Jalliah at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh before I forget:

ATTN PITTSBURGH MEFITES! I was told today that tomorrow morning bright and early at 7 AM at the street of the parade route at like Liberty and 11th near the bus station YOU CAN MEET DIAMOND JOE AND THE NATION'S DAD, TIM KAINE. They'll be meeting and greeting volunteers doing voter registration along the parade route.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2016 [35 favorites]

Ben Carson was on FOX yesterday and explained that The Wall will not need to be paid for by Mexico because it will pay for itself. Yes. After it is built we will be saving vast sums of money by not having to give illegal immigrants any benefits.

Also I took a walk on the darkside this morning and read a few Right Wing Rags and was astonished to find out that a "unnamed source inside the Clinton campaign" is reporting that Clinton sleeps 18 hours a day! It is amazing how much that woman can get done in 6 hours-- especially considering she also has to groom and feed herself. Although why a woman who needs to sleep 18 hours a day would want to take on such an enormously complicated and stressful job as POTUS is something I cannot figure out. Maybe she is planning on Bill doing all the work while she slumbers away like Sleeping Beauty.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:13 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

@RealDonaldTrump:

6:15 The Republican Party needs strong and committed leaders, not weak people such as @JeffFlake, if it is going to stop illegal immigration.

7:05 The Great State of Arizona, where I just had a massive rally (amazing people), has a very weak and ineffective Senator, Jeff Flake. Sad!

Now what brought that on? Ah, yes. Arizona GOP senator: "I just don't see how I can" back Donald Trump
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:22 PM on September 4, 2016 [17 favorites]

No stickers yet, but I did get my t-shirt and H logo socks.
posted by emelenjr at 4:28 PM on September 4, 2016

Sanders on MTP on the Clinton Foundation: "At the very least she should not be involved. At the very least."

You know, this is exactly the thing that soured me on Sanders. He seems to feel an obligation to parrot whatever his followers are saying on social media. Like, when people are saying Hillary stole an election, even though there's no evidence, he says something like "Well these are serious questions and we need to get to the bottom of them." He panders to the fringe in a way I find really smarmy. It's always just on the side of deniability, but they feel like dogwhistles for the left.
posted by threeturtles at 4:29 PM on September 4, 2016 [46 favorites]

And it's been I think three weeks and I haven't received my buttons yet. But I know I ordered after a lot of folks here.
posted by threeturtles at 4:31 PM on September 4, 2016

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
The polls are close so Crooked Hillary is getting out of bed and will campaign tomorrow.Why did she hammer 13 devices and acid-wash e-mails?

[real]

Acid-washing emails?!? Has he completely lost the fucking plot?
posted by Talez at 4:34 PM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

No, Trump's just distracted, wishing he was back home and wearing his comfy, acid-washed, three-legged jeans.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:41 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

brain fart? He meant to write "bleach" as in BleachBit but maybe he thinks the bleach people are talking about is Clorox. As in, she needed so many Blackberrys because she was soaking them in bleach.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

Maybe he tried to use a thesaurus to expand his vocabulary.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:49 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

Personally, I think he thought this would be a way to appeal to the cool kids without knowing a thing about his subject. He looks pretty dumb to anyone who knows about the various tools available for file deletion and destruction, but how many of those are Republicans? What a tool!
posted by Silverstone at 4:51 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Worth noting that neither Trump nor Pence have anything scheduled tomorrow.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

And which of your known multiple devices did you use to tweet about your opponent's alleged use of multiple devices?
posted by riverlife at 4:53 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

> Yeah I had that moment listening to a podcast of a guy going into rural Canada for a story and describing the confederate flag in a window.

My sister lives in Point Edward, Ontario (across the river from Port Huron, Michigan) and someone a few doors down from her has a confederate flag license plate nailed above his garage door. Who knows why, but none of the possible answers are good ones.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:56 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, an adviser for Donald Trump’s campaign, on Sunday called on Democrats to apologize for calling the GOP nominee racist over his claim that President Barack Obama was born in Africa.

Without even knowing the particulars of his career as a federal prosecutor I am nevertheless utterly convinced that the likelihood is that Rudy Giuliani sent people to prison on weaker evidence than exists to support the contention that racism was a significant element of Donald Trump's motivation for his "birther" claims.

It'll never happen but I would love to see someone successfully press him to explain what standard of proof he would accept and then mercilessly demonstrate, using examples from his own career, the times that people who were not politically ambitious authoritarian white men did not benefit from the same remarkable level of skepticism on Giuliani's part.
posted by Nerd of the North at 5:04 PM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

Toronto Star: Educated women pose big problem for Donald Trump in key suburbs

Trump almost certainly needs to win Pennsylvania if he is going to win the election. His popularity in its rural and industrial areas gives him a passing chance. But he is getting trounced in the prosperous suburban communities that are home to far more voters.

Polls show that educated white women, in particular, appear to be rejecting Trump in favour of the educated white woman running against him.

For all the talk of Trump’s toxicity with racial minorities, it is easy to forget that he is poisonous to much of the white population, too. In fact, because he has alienated white women and white people with college degrees, he is actually doing worse with whites than Mitt Romney did in 2012.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:25 PM on September 4, 2016 [15 favorites]

I was in Stockholm a few weeks back and there was what looked to be a classic car parade. Except for all the Confederate flags on display. There were a few US flags mixed in as well, but it feels like they were vastly outnumbered by Confederate ones. I don't know what was going on that evening, but I'm just not used to seeing that many of those things all together. Creeped me out. I think the Confederate flag has become the flag of racist assholes the world over.
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:30 PM on September 4, 2016 [21 favorites]

I think the Confederate flag has become the flag of racist assholes the world over.

Definitely. In places like Germany, where the Nazi flag is banned, it's a popular substitute.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:33 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Democrat Party (epithet):

"Democrat Party" is a political epithet used in the United States for the Democratic Party. The term has been used in negative or hostile fashion by conservative commentators and members of the Republican Party in party platforms, partisan speeches and press releases since at least 1940.

posted by kirkaracha at 5:35 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

The damnedest thing is, well, I've always liked the look of Ole Miss colors. When I was a kid, girls all around me wore ribbons of Ole Miss colors in their hair, unless of course they came from a Bulldog family or an Auburn family. What are Ole Miss colors? Red and blue. And why?

Sometimes in the South it's like there's lead paint everywhere, and not only is there no money for remediation, people riot if you try using latex.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:39 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

If my point is obtuse and poorly made: This guy, after all that has gone before, who knows next-to-nothing (being generous) about deletion software (I mean, *really*?!?) is using the most toxically-spun version fundamentally NON-ISSUE mundane public information (Hillary Clinton's use of Blackberries) to go after her for...for what??? Hammering Blackberries? Hammering Blackberries?!?!? What in the even??? The only purpose in such an insinuation, after all that has gone before, is to project a vague but direct, violent incompetence upon Hillary Clinton. The accusation, like that against Megyn Kelly, is inchoate but vituperatively well-formed-enough to add another ember to the long-burning fire of straight-up mysogyny generally and also add another log to the Republican-set Hillary arson of 1992. Such a gross insult, such a stupid insult, such a lazy insult. This is not, ahem, presidential behavior.

And this borne upon the wings of the hypocrisy that he clearly has multiple devices which multiple people use to tweet in his name--he blatantly allows OTHER PEOPLE to speak for his precious brand--this tremendously dilutes your brand, sir!!--and yet he'd have us soil our shorts over the the fiction of Mrs. Clinton sledgehammering PDAs. Was this latest ball of slimefuckery the product of his own tiny reptilian claws or the ham-fisted alt-thumbing of hired (but not paid lol!) alt-right douchbros?

Among his many, many, pretty-much-Platonic-form-of-MANY issues, the man has yuge credibility issues when it comes to cellphone transparency, and thus, cellphones. He cannot credibly go after anyone else's cellphone ANYTHING when his own use of cellphones is so compromised. Substitute nearly any noun for cellphone in the previous sentences and you will find a correct reading.

Shitting out a tweet that trades on technical know-nothingness and an ignorant self-righteousness rarely seen, along with blatant, wholly unnecessay misogyny, is something that everyone's avoiding doing, all the best people, believe me! and it's so sad to see yet another instance of a presidential candidate wrapping himself in the poisonous dysentery effluvium of misogyny and hate. Sad!

This doesn't even begin to consider the stunning levels of projection involved, levels that sickeningly astound. Also, I would very much like to attend a Hammering Blackberries show.

posted by riverlife at 5:45 PM on September 4, 2016

> I was in Stockholm a few weeks back and there was what looked to be a classic car parade. Except for all the Confederate flags on display.

Raggare
posted by Monochrome at 5:46 PM on September 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

Thanks, monochrome! Interesting! Still kinda creeped out about the flag... But interesting!
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:50 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think there's a fair number of right wing weirdos in Southern Ontario. In Dunnville last summer, I saw a pickup truck with a confederate flag, i.e.- it had a flagpole mounted behind the cab.
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:57 PM on September 4, 2016

For whomever does the #NextPost tomorrow, what is an appropriate Hamilton lyric that hasn't been used already?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:01 PM on September 4, 2016

Why did she hammer 13 devices?

Burner phones for coordinating with the cocaine smugglers at the Little Rock airport and for arranging hits on whistleblowers.

Mini-mart burners are for losers. Only elites can afford burner Blackberries.
posted by JackFlash at 6:06 PM on September 4, 2016 [10 favorites]

"Southern motherfucking Democrat Republicans?"
posted by stet at 6:07 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

what is an appropriate Hamilton lyric that hasn't been used already?

I'd love an actual title, but I know this election is too weird for people to get serious just yet.
posted by cashman at 6:08 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

what is an appropriate Hamilton lyric that hasn't been used already?

"It's hard to listen to you with a straight face"
posted by bibliowench at 6:10 PM on September 4, 2016 [11 favorites]

Southern motherfucking Democrat Republicans?

Democratic. *sigh*
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:10 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

> For all the talk of Trump’s toxicity with racial minorities, it is easy to forget that he is poisonous to much of the white population, too. In fact, because he has alienated white women and white people with college degrees, he is actually doing worse with whites than Mitt Romney did in 2012.

And yet, and yet...he's still apparently got a shot at this thing despite the fact that he is losing - by vast margins in some cases - with seemingly every demographic except non-college educated whites. It seems like every polling-related article I read about Trump falls into one of two categories; "Trump is in big trouble with [large, important demographic]" or "Trump pulls to within 1-5% of Hillary in [State]."
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:15 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

#nextpost
Possible Hamiltitle: "You're openly campaigning? Sure!" (To celebrate the official start of the open campaigning, and all...)
posted by current resident at 6:18 PM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

Things have gotten too dumb to justify using Hamilton quotes anymore. I think post titles from this point out should not quote anything more intellectual than Jersey Shore .
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:26 PM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

Possible #nextpost Hamiltitles, by theme (all from "The Election of 1800"):
"Ev'ry action has an equal, opposite reaction" (false equivalency)
"You need to change course, a key endorsement might redeem you" (still waiting for a "pivot")
"Burr, is there anything you wouldn't do?" (Trump and/or media absurdity)

My favorite ("But when all is said and all is done / Jefferson has beliefs. Burr has none") was already used during the RNC. Still apt, though.
posted by Superplin at 6:28 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think post titles from this point out should not quote anything more intellectual than Jersey Shore .

I see your weiner!
– Snooki

Happy?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:48 PM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Whatever quote is used, there should probably be a link to that song at the end of the post. Either on its own or within a playlist of the whole thing. Not everyone knows every word yet.
posted by fomhar at 6:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

Here's another reason the republicans like to say DemocRAT. You commonly see reference to the 'RATs on right wing discussion sites.
posted by madamjujujive at 6:54 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have been blessed enough to never stumble on that darkened alley of the Internet.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:56 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

Hamiltitles: He's Not Forthcoming on Any Particular Stances

Or the following line: Ask him a question: it glances off, he obfuscates, he dances

OR: I get no satisfaction witnessing his fits of passion

OR OR: Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him
posted by threeturtles at 6:58 PM on September 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

I ordered a tshirt near the end of July, it shipped the next day and I got it 4 days later. I ordered bumper stickers a month ago and they took 2-3 weeks to arrive.

I would bet it depends on the item you order. Some may not be in stock.
posted by bongo_x at 7:14 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

"So, uh, that's the situation."
-Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:20 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why did she hammer 13 devices?
Trump's Mirror: We can only guess how many devices Dishonest Don has broken since he started campaiging by Twitter. I'd guess he goes through 3-4 a month just from all the times he drops them with his small hands.

The Democrat Party
By Election Day, it will be much more valid to refer the other major party as the Trumpublicans. After all, he slaps his name on everything else.

"Trump is in big trouble with [large, important demographic]" or "Trump pulls to within 1-5% of Hillary in [State]."
The "Likely Voters" category is badly overrepresented by White Males. Based on past elections, all other groups are less likely to vote, except those elections were not Donald Trump Reality Shows. There may also be something like a Bradley Effect, named for the black candidate for California who many people told pollsters they would vote for just to be 'politically correct'. Only this year, it's cool to be 'politically INcorrect'. A Reverse Bradley. A Badley Effect.

And the Hillary Merch that's taking the longest to arrive is apparently the Bumper Stickers. Expect the next SCANDAL the press focuses on to involve the sticker printer...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:33 PM on September 4, 2016

Officially over a month, now, since I ordered the shirts. No shipment email, no surprise delivery.

Quoting Joe: C'mon!
posted by rp at 7:44 PM on September 4, 2016

Clinton has serious, problematic issues as a supposed left-wing candidate, especially around militarism and corporate influence,

Setting "militarism" aside, because on the left anyway, one persons "warmongering" is another person's "interventionism" -- what is the critique that Clinton is unduly influenced by corporations? I've never seen anything more meaningful than "she takes money from banks for speeches, so obviously she doesn't care about poor people."
posted by pocketfullofrye at 7:46 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Clinton has serious, problematic issues as a supposed left-wing candidate, especially around militarism and corporate influence

yah, but the incoherent rage she inspires in republicans at the mere mention of her name guarantees her my vote.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [17 favorites]

Jefferson has beliefs. Burr has none

Hillary has beliefs, Trump has none scans.

This tho: Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him
posted by anastasiav at 7:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

I don't think it would be inappropriate to draw on the rich tradition of American protest music for a Labor Day new-thread. But I'm also a #NeverHamilton
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:11 PM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

what is the critique that Clinton is unduly influenced by corporations?

It's fortunate that she, like all politicians, is immune from being influenced by money

Otherwise stuff like Citizens United would be really dangerous and we'd have to do something about it!

what a pain in the ass that would be
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:25 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

> I don't think it would be inappropriate to draw on the rich tradition of American protest music for a Labor Day new-thread.

"I want to turn the clock back to when people lived in small villages and took care of each other." is too long. Maybe "Waist deep in the big muddy"?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:26 PM on September 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Otherwise stuff like Citizens United would be really dangerous and we'd have to do something about it!

And how terrible that she actually said that she would work to overturn it!
posted by rp at 8:28 PM on September 4, 2016 [13 favorites]

FriendsDontLetFriendsRehashInterminablePrimaryDebates.gif
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:35 PM on September 4, 2016 [20 favorites]

This just in: lefties wary of Clinton, liberals think it's overblown. An orange menace on the horizon.
posted by dis_integration at 8:36 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Most Ludicrous Parts of Breitbart’s Fawning Trump “Exclusive"

Trump offered policy specifics for the inner cities: he called for a revitalized Motor City, with “factories everywhere” and “new roads and bridges” as well as “new schools—especially schools.”

Ah yes, noted policy wonk Donald Trump finally gave us the specifics we’ve been begging for. How’s he going to bring back jobs? Build nonspecific factories somewhere. Crumbling infrastructure? Fix it somehow. Ok, but what about our nightmare education system? Build more schools, hopefully for free.

Hillary, your move.

posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 PM on September 4, 2016 [20 favorites]

#nextpost

Protest songs also awesome! How about "Every state in this Union, migrants have been" ? (From Woody Guthrie's Pastures of Plenty, sung here by Odetta.)
posted by current resident at 8:37 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

And how terrible that she actually said that she would work to overturn it!

Huh, I wonder what for

That would only make sense if you thought corporate money was dangerous

so weird
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:45 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

so weird.
posted by rp at 8:46 PM on September 4, 2016

Pragmatism: the ability to succeed in a corrupt system while making long-term plans to change it.
Suspicious Behavior: claiming to wish to change a corrupt system in which one has had major success.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:57 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

Build nonspecific factories somewhere

To be fair, he wants to build them everywhere!
posted by rhizome at 9:02 PM on September 4, 2016

So Clinton is clearly under the influence of corrupt corporate money because she acknowledged its possible corrupting nature by pledging to get rid of it? Alrighty then.
posted by chris24 at 9:03 PM on September 4, 2016 [16 favorites]

Everyone is saying the polls are going to narrow over the next couple of months because that's what always happens. Because this election is so weird I'm going to predict the opposite: Clinton will have a clear, convincing, and indisputable polling lead by Election Day.
posted by um at 9:05 PM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

Ah yes, noted policy wonk Donald Trump finally gave us the specifics we’ve been begging for.

I'd like to pitch a reality show with Trump, here's the premise - Trump sits in on a project management meeting. Every week there's a new thing that Trump has to help solve.

Episode 1 - Trump and the architecture firm
Project manager: "We have a $1millon budget, a 6 month deadline, and our typical design process takes 8 months and costs 1.25mil, how are we going to pull this one off?
Trump: "Huge, just huge. We'll build the best building, under budget. Under budget, and on time. Early even!"
Project manager: "...ok, yes, that's the idea, but how?"
Trump: "On time, under budget, you'll see!"
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 PM on September 4, 2016 [23 favorites]

what is the critique that Clinton is unduly influenced by corporations?

If her positions on minimum wage raises and health insurance reforms are not influenced by her relationships with corporate donors, those positions are still friendly to their bottom line. Nonetheless, the point is not to rehash what is openly known about her positions on these issues, but to point out that the press does not openly discuss these objective facts — what candidates are on record for saying in public — and instead presents false equivalences on, say, race relations, so as to bait people into consuming the media's product, for reasons discussed in the excellent book by Farrows, which I recommended to people interested in the larger subject.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:16 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

#nextpost

Here Comes the General (election)!

[meet me inside]
posted by Hlewagast at 9:22 PM on September 4, 2016 [16 favorites]

Politicians always make less-than-specific promises to be filled in later. Dumb Donald has just raised the bar for such promises ad absurdum. Probably exactly what he has done all his business life, considering how many products with his name have failed and businesses he has bankrupted. But then pretty much everything in his campaign is raised ad absurdum, which is what appeals to "low information voters". I like to believe that most Trumpists aren't racist, fascist, alt-wrongers, just embarrassingly gullible. But nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public... except some people who partnered with Trump.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:22 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

If her positions on minimum wage raises and health insurance reforms are not influenced by her relationships with corporate donors, those positions are still friendly to their bottom line.

You mean her position that the federal minimum wage should be raised at least 65.5% (and up to 107% in some locations)? That's what you got for corporate-friendly?

*eyeroll.gif*
posted by dersins at 9:24 PM on September 4, 2016 [26 favorites]

You mean her position that the federal minimum wage should be raised at least 65.5% (and up to 107% in some locations)? That's what you got for corporate-friendly?

It's the Left version of the republican's "Anything she says or does is evidence of corruption." Anything she says or does, is evidence that she's a tool of corporate interests, no matter how farfetched the relationship. It's really annoying, and one of the reasons I left ontd-political.
posted by happyroach at 9:55 PM on September 4, 2016 [17 favorites]

If corporate money had no influence on Clinton, then why would she want to repeal Citizens United? If you can bathe in a river of corporate donations without coming away from it influenced in any way, then there's no problem with Citizens United. It's just money after all. Oceans of money.

As Barney Frank, who would say something totally different now, I'm sure, said back in 2012:

"People say, 'Oh, it doesn't have any effect on me,'" he says. "Well if that were the case, we'd be the only human beings in the history of the world who on a regular basis took significant amounts of money from perfect strangers and made sure that it had no effect on our behavior."

Definitely. In places like Germany, where the Nazi flag is banned, it's a popular substitute.

I call the Confederate Flag the "Southern Swastika" for a reason.
posted by mikelieman at 9:58 PM on September 4, 2016 [15 favorites]

Constantly asking for specific instances where this influence seems in evidence (and then beanplating when specific instances are pointed to) is basically sealioning.

It really, really isn't.
posted by dersins at 10:33 PM on September 4, 2016 [15 favorites]

A couple of comments deleted. If you just feel like real-time chatting, please take advantage of Chat or any other venue actually suited to the purpose to do that. Otherwise let's try to stay more or less on topic in these threads.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:56 PM on September 4, 2016

he called for a revitalized Motor City, with “factories everywhere”

And where will all those factory workers eat? If only mobile units producing portable delicious taco goodness could be deployed "everywhere" (one on every corner perhaps) to satisfy the demand?
posted by zachlipton at 11:01 PM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

I think perhaps the supreme irony of it all is that the immigrant group who have actually displaced and obliterated an existing culture are good old European whites. Fear of immigration when immigrants are brown is another interestingly obvious combination of open denial that white supremacy exists while implicitly (and in an unexamined way) accepting it as the desired state of affairs and wanting to make absolutely sure it's never threatened.
posted by jaduncan at 11:35 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

I guess the depressing side of that is the amount of people who are getting close to acknowledgement and approval of plain and open white supremacist views.
posted by jaduncan at 11:41 PM on September 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

The "Latinos for Trump" guy's Taco Trucks comment called Mexico a "dominant culture", essentially admitting that "White American Culture" is really inferior and can only retain its status in America by putting up barriers (WALLS!). The whole White Supremacist movement is in essence acting out from the knowledge of their own inferiority at anything other than bullying.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:58 AM on September 5, 2016 [14 favorites]

And he skipped over the immediate implication of his evil and stupid statement which is that he, as a Latino should stripped of his citizenship be run out of town on a rail.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:04 AM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

If corporate money had no influence on Clinton, then why would she want to repeal Citizens United?

You know, honestly, at this point, this argument makes no fucking sense at all. If you dislike Clinton, if you want to bring her down, fine. But dont even try to justify it with nonsensical, Catch-22 arguments like this.
posted by happyroach at 1:46 AM on September 5, 2016 [39 favorites]

I think perhaps the supreme irony of it all is that the immigrant group who have actually displaced and obliterated an existing culture are good old European whites.

I don't think that is entirely true. Some examples in more recent history, off the top of my head:

- Chinese expansion into Tibet, Taiwan and Xinjiang.
- Japanese expansion into Hokkaido and northern Honshu (previously inhabited by Ainu people).

Of course, you could argue that those aren't examples of "immigration", but rather invading and conquering the other culture, but I believe the same is true for the examples of European whites that you seem to have in mind.
posted by sour cream at 2:17 AM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

Ah, sorry. I meant that in the context of modern North America and resultant US cultural views around racial domination, and I should have been more explicit about that. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt the Trump base spends much time thinking about the invasion of Tibet.
posted by jaduncan at 2:20 AM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Clinton campaign is awash in wall-street cash. Nobody denies that. How could it not influence her? Constantly asking for specific instances where this influence seems in evidence (and then beanplating when specific instances are pointed to) is basically sealioning. The way these things work is more subtle than taking a donation from Coca-Cola and then giving them a corn syrup subsidy.

We've just had the Clinton Foundation fiasco. In which what was happening was that Clinton knew that Washington was awash in Pay to Play (seriously when new congresscritters on both sides are told to spend 30 hours/week fundraising of course it's pay to play) and the Clintons were basically using this to scam people trying to bribe Hillary Clinton. Imagine the conversation:

"I gave the Clintons over a million dollars and I still can't even get a meeting with Hillary Clinton. Is there anything I can do like sue them?"
"Did you give the money to her personally?"
"No. I gave it to her charity of course."
"Did it the money actually go to the Clintons?"
"No. It went to AIDS work in Africa."
"So you want to sue the Clintons because you tried to illegally bribe them, gave money for AIDS work in Africa and they used it for that purpose? And didn't treat it as a bribe. Write it off, man. Seriously. Write that one off."

That is neither the status quo nor the Clintons not letting themselves be influenced by the factor of money in politics. It is subtly but effectively standing against all the money in politics and doing something both with and about it. And it's also why she wants to get rid of Citizens' United. You don't scam people like that unless at some fundamental level you dislike them.

After the Clinton Foundation exposures saying "The Clintons must be corrupt. They have money swirling around them" is as much textbook sealioning as attacking her over Benghazi is after eight separate congressional investigations.
posted by Francis at 2:33 AM on September 5, 2016 [60 favorites]

Clinton is polling at 90% with blacks, and Trump at or near zero, but the lead story online and in print at the Times is how in some focus groups, young blacks were skeptical of Clinton.

Meanwhile, Trump's payment to Florida AG Bondi is nowhere to be found. In fact they've never ever even mentioned it in any previous reporting. But that liberal media...
posted by chris24 at 3:37 AM on September 5, 2016 [21 favorites]

From Electoral Vote, FiveThirtyEight: An Assessment
posted by octothorpe at 5:12 AM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

#hamiltitles:
"I Probably Shouldn't Brag but Dag, I Amaze and Astonish"
"You Achieve Nothing; You Aggravate Our Allies to the South"
"Most Disputes Die and No One ~~Shoots~~ Resorts to Second Amendment Remedies"
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:45 AM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Times has never published anything about Trump's probable bribe to the Florida AG.

NOT A DAMN THING.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:46 AM on September 5, 2016 [52 favorites]

Definitely. In places like Germany, where the Nazi flag is banned, it's a popular substitute.

I call the Confederate Flag the "Southern Swastika" for a reason.

I think this is definitely true world wide in 2016. There is simply no excuse for not understanding what that flag means.

However, as a Canadian kid I had no real clue other than that it was on the roof top of the General Lee in the Dukes of Hazard.

Now I recognize that that show was part of a major long term concerted push to re-legitimize the confederacy but back then it was car chases, Daisy Duke's ass and Rocoe P. Coltrane slapstick.
posted by srboisvert at 6:49 AM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]

So Clinton is clearly under the influence of corrupt corporate money because she acknowledged its possible corrupting nature by pledging to get rid of it? Alrighty then.

I work in underwriting QA at a bank. The main part of my job used to be reviewing loans that our underwriters processed to make sure that they followed procedure and complied with all regulations. Since the scores from my review were used as part of the calculations that went into quarterly incentives/bonuses, it was important to me that I be kept in the dark as to what those calculations were because I was afraid that knowing would bias my scoring.

It's not that I thought it would corrupt me, I work hard to maintain my objectivity, the problem is that it's hard to know if that knowledge ever biased my scores without some deeper analysis.

Hillary might not think that she is being corrupted by corporate money but I would totally buy that since she can't prove to herself that she isn't being corrupted, she wants to get rid of the possibility.

Or who knows, maybe there was something that happened that got to close to corruption for her comfort and she didn't realize until afterwords how close it was. Hell a super cynical hypothesis would be that she is half in someone's pocket and sees it as a way to remove their leverage.
posted by VTX at 6:59 AM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

To be clear though, I'd bet good money on reality being something like the scenario that Francis outlines above.
posted by VTX at 7:03 AM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

Clinton's wife must be above suspicion.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:30 AM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

My expectation would be that Clinton would be against CU because it disproportionately benefits Republicans, or else because she sees that as a useful posture to take to win center-progressive votes, or both. But honestly, does it even matter what her reasoning is? All this havering about the innermost souls of members of the political class seems pointless. What matters is what they feel they have to do to please their constituency, not the truth of their hearts. If Clinton wants to get rid of CU, and we have a reasonable belief that she might actually have a shot at it, we should all cheer. Do we really seriously believe that most social reform has come about because elites are nice people? Frederick Douglas would roll in his grave, poor guy.
posted by Frowner at 7:37 AM on September 5, 2016 [37 favorites]

LIVE Stream: Tim Kaine & Joe Biden Speech at Pittsburgh Labor Day Parade in Pennsylvania (9/5/2016)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:52 AM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

WaPo: Intelligence community investigating covert Russian influence operations in the United States

Also: Where did Donald Trump get his racialized rhetoric? From libertarians.

The NYT's silence on the Bondi thing is also weird as heck.
posted by schmod at 8:09 AM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

Folks waiting on Hillary swag: I, too, ordered some sweet gear during the DNC. As of a couple weeks ago, it still hadn't arrived. I called the customer service line and chatted with a very nice, enthusiastic person and she said that two items were holding up shipping and offered to ship the things in stock and the others later. I said that yes please this would be desirable and about a week later the non-backlogged portion of my order arrived. Give them a ring and you will probably be able to get some of your stuff on the sooner side.

(The H-logo shirt and one of my button sets were the problems, fwiw. My "A woman's place is in the White House" tank and other button sets arrived just fine. I also just got my woman card last week, although I didn't talk to them about it.)
posted by athenasbanquet at 8:13 AM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

I thought a new post would be up by now. I'll start putting one together.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:29 AM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

Another reason the Foundation (and even the speech) stuff is weird is because the bloody NYT already knows how this game works, because they report on it in the society pages.

Charitable giving is a peer status marker among the ultrarich, far more than it is an influence-buyer. Yeah, you'll get into the best shows and receptions at the Met Opera by making a hefty donation, but what's important is to be seen there by all the other kajillionaires to confirm your philanthropic bona fides. Hiring Hillary to give a speech is a marker to all the other finance corps that you can afford her fee.

And as the NYC papers have written, Trump has a long-standing habit of showing up to the summer galas and glitzy philanthropic receptions but never making an actual donation. Which is why Bloomberg and the actually-megarich treat him as the low-rent bullshitting grifter he is.
posted by holgate at 8:32 AM on September 5, 2016 [53 favorites]

The NYT's silence on the Bondi thing is also weird as heck.

Paul Krugman weighs in: Hillary Clinton Gets Gored

True, there aren’t many efforts to pretend that Donald Trump is a paragon of honesty. But it’s hard to escape the impression that he’s being graded on a curve. If he manages to read from a TelePrompter without going off script, he’s being presidential. If he seems to suggest that he wouldn’t round up all 11 million undocumented immigrants right away, he’s moving into the mainstream. And many of his multiple scandals, like what appear to be clear payoffs to state attorneys general to back off investigating Trump University, get remarkably little attention.

Meanwhile, we have the presumption that anything Hillary Clinton does must be corrupt, most spectacularly illustrated by the increasingly bizarre coverage of the Clinton Foundation.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:37 AM on September 5, 2016 [48 favorites]

Why did she hammer 13 devices?

Have you seen Office Space?
posted by krinklyfig at 8:38 AM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

What makes that NYT Krugman column an awesome piece of shade is that the "payoffs to state attorneys general" from the above quote is a link to the Washington Post reporting.
posted by nubs at 8:48 AM on September 5, 2016 [37 favorites]

Why did she hammer 13 devices?

Dishonest Donnie needs to read this comment upthread, which goes someway to explain how it's possible
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:54 AM on September 5, 2016

Matt Lauer is hosting the Commander-in-Chief Forum this Wednesday, September 7, on NBC News and MSNBC:

It will be a one-hour forum where Clinton and Trump will answer questions about national security, military affairs and veterans issues in front of an audience mainly made up of members of the military. The two candidates will not be on the stage at the same time, but will instead go back to back.

posted by kirkaracha at 8:57 AM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can the "Know Nothings" video from Maddow be part of the new post? It was a great segment and when Fareed Zakaria interviewed President Obama over the weekend about Trump, Obama referenced the Know Nothings.
posted by cashman at 9:12 AM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

cashman, which one is it?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:15 AM on September 5, 2016

Why did she hammer 13 devices?

From 14 Excerpts From the FBI's Report on Hillary Clinton's Email:

This has become a big talking point on the right for some reason. Hillary didn't have one device for convenience, she had 13! This is ridiculous. Over time, she had 13 devices, but the report makes it clear that she always had just one device at a time.

Also, Hammer Time!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

NYTIMES: Where there is the possibility of smoke there must be fire! Where there is raging fire we can't detect any smoke.
posted by srboisvert at 9:50 AM on September 5, 2016 [27 favorites]

From what I've seen of government IT, and the quality of BlackBerry's hardware during that period, 13 seems like it's on the low side.
posted by schmod at 9:52 AM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]

new campaign event - contribute to win a chance to hammer a mobile phone. IT staff everywhere donate like mad.
posted by theora55 at 9:53 AM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

You strike me as an electorate that's never been satisfied.

I mean, yes, but if the electorate is ever truly satisfied you might be doing democracy wrong. We can always do better, right?
posted by dersins at 10:11 AM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

cashman, which one is it?

Donald Trump Nativist Speech Follows Dark US Pattern
posted by cashman at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

> Trump's payment to Florida AG Bondi is nowhere to be found. In fact they've never ever even mentioned it in any previous reporting.

What do you mean by "previous" and "they"? Are you talking about the NY TImes in particular? The Washington Post and MSNBC covered it. The Post's David A. Fahrenthold is the one that discovered the irregularities in tax returns & reported it to the IRS, resulting in the fine. There wasn't much known previously except that Bondi was cozy with lawyers involved with litigation against other states, reported on by the NY Times back in April.

The Times previously on lobbying (without being registered as lobbyists) of state AG, including a document dump.

The New York Times hasn't reported on the fine and in one of the few articles that mentions both Bondi & Trump, they didn't take the opportunity to mention the investigation into her. (like these folks did "Bondi stumps for Trump amid calls for an investigation")
posted by morganw at 10:25 AM on September 5, 2016

Oops- in the comment I quoted from chris24, they did mention "The Times", so it was NY Times-specific complaint. I haven't seen much secondary reporting on the donation "mix up" or fine from leading papers, though. When a story is so connected to investigation by a single journalist, what's normal for other papers to report? Just the facts? Call everyone for comment? Check all the details?
posted by morganw at 10:32 AM on September 5, 2016

Media Matters "CBS’ John Dickerson Is Only Sunday Host To Cover Trump Foundation’s Proven Lawbreaking"

Other newspapers-of-record aren't reporting this yet, either. LA TImes, SF Chron, Boston Herald, Chicago Tribune, nada. SF Chron's search finds a Business Insider reprint in SF Gate: "Clinton campaign rips the Trump Foundation over alleged 'illegal campaign donations'"
posted by morganw at 10:44 AM on September 5, 2016

Yes the Times. And as detailed in schadenfrau's link above, they have not only not covered the recent fine, they've never mentioned the 25,000 donation to Bondi which has been known for half a year.
posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

This "Commander-in-Chief" forum:

... taking questions on national security, military affairs and veterans issues from NBC News and an audience comprised mainly of military veterans and active service members.

Active service members? That's... ethically difficult, though not automatically wrong.
posted by ctmf at 10:47 AM on September 5, 2016 [10 favorites]

I am pretty sure this is [real] and not [satire]: the New Yorker is rolling out a new series about "Trump and the Truth": http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/introducing-a-new-series-trump-and-the-truth
posted by wenestvedt at 10:47 AM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

Looks like Trump & Pence are trying to bigfoot Clinton's Labor Day pitch by showing up at a county fair in Ohio after a union roundtable.

When a story is so connected to investigation by a single journalist, what's normal for other papers to report? Just the facts? Call everyone for comment? Check all the details?

It depends. Sometimes it's Not Reported Here Syndrome, and that seems to be the case with the NYT's treatment of Fahrenthold's assignment at the WaPo. Sometimes there's a desire to challenge the competition -- consider Barton Gellman's WaPo work on supposed WMD sites in Iraq while Judith Miller was gallivanting around with senior officers away from the rest of the NYT bureau. Sometimes there are bruised egos that their own heavily-reported work -- such as the long piece on Trump's Atlantic City failure -- aren't picked up and given traction, so why extend the privilege to other outlets?
posted by holgate at 10:49 AM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

I've just had to do a complete system wipe (lenovo ideapad + windows 10 boot file corruption issue of some inscrutible black screen sort - resolved with Ubuntu 16.04 LTS which can now get past the formerly confounding UEFI boot issues - only took me 2 years to get what I wanted on my machine but enough about all that!).

As a result I haven't yet changed all my settings and ctrl zoomed all of my frequent websites to my optimal reading size. So reading twitter with small fonts resulted in my reading this:

"The media creates false equivalences in a desperate grab for clicks!" argues this article that I screengrabbed instead of linking to.

as "a desperate grab for dicks."

Which suggests a greasemonkey script.
posted by srboisvert at 10:51 AM on September 5, 2016 [9 favorites]

@VP with @timkaine: "My name is Joe Biden and I work for @HillaryClinton and whatever the hell this guy's name is." [Real]
posted by Sophie1 at 10:58 AM on September 5, 2016 [24 favorites]

I'm going to try to aspire to Biden's joie de vivre. Damn the guy's been through shit, and he still seems like he's happy everywhere he goes
posted by angrycat at 11:04 AM on September 5, 2016 [13 favorites]

Ah, that time of year again where Republicans pretend Labor Day is about something else.
posted by ctmf at 11:19 AM on September 5, 2016 [27 favorites]

On the up side, the replies to Abbott's tweet are giving me life.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:27 AM on September 5, 2016 [15 favorites]

Anyone else annoyed by NPR's promo that has Clinton and Trump talking over each other as if they were debating?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:31 AM on September 5, 2016

Every other day in 21st Century America wasn't good enough, apparently.
posted by Etrigan at 11:31 AM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

DTMFNPRA
posted by petebest at 11:47 AM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

New article from Charles Blow. Brutal and perfect.

You will never shake the essence of yourself. Your soul is dark, your character corrupt. You are a reprobate and a charlatan who has ridden a wave of intolerance to its crest.

posted by Sophie1 at 12:25 PM on September 5, 2016 [24 favorites]

New article from Charles Blow. Brutal and perfect.

Strong words, but true ones:

[Trump] spoke Friday to a handful of African-Americans in North Philadelphia, and as described on philly.com, told them that “he is not a bigot, and blamed the media for portraying him that way, according to people who attended a private event.”

No sir, stop right there. We are not going to allow any deflection or redefining of words here. You are a bigot. That is not a media narrative or a fairy tale. That is an absolute truth. No one manufactured your bigotry; you manifested it.

!!!

If only the Times' news division were as willing to speak truth as (some of) its editorial voices are.
posted by dersins at 12:36 PM on September 5, 2016 [19 favorites]

What, when they've got strong stories like Young Blacks Voice Skepticism on Hillary Clinton, Worrying Democrats?
posted by Artw at 12:38 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

What does the M-in-a-circle logo on some of the responses to Abbot's Labor Day tweet mean?
posted by pxe2000 at 12:39 PM on September 5, 2016

Brutal and perfect.

You weren't kidding.

You are a prime example of the worst of humanity. You are what happens when incuriosity meets intolerance.
You can’t earnestly court the black vote while at the same time your party is enacting laws in multiple states to suppress the black vote.

Very nice.
posted by cashman at 12:40 PM on September 5, 2016 [10 favorites]

Roger Ailes turns to Hulk Hogan lawyer Charles Harder in dispute with @gabrielsherman and NYMag
posted by PenDevil at 12:44 PM on September 5, 2016

Is there really a new thread in the works? It took me like eleventy million years to type this
posted by schadenfrau at 12:51 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

What does the M-in-a-circle logo on some of the responses to Abbot's Labor Day tweet mean?

That's Egg McMuffin's (Evan McMullin) logo.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:51 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

Putting together a new FPP now
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:53 PM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

This time can we not immediately flood the new thread with dozens of comments thanking the author for making a new thread
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [17 favorites]

What! Tivalasvegas, that's the best part!

*twiddles thumbs, waits*
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 12:57 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

Instead, let's flood it with comments asking each other not to flood it with comments.
posted by dersins at 12:57 PM on September 5, 2016 [14 favorites]

Well not immediately but after a decent interval.
posted by kingless at 12:59 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

The important thing is that there's a flood. Gotta break it in
posted by schadenfrau at 12:59 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]

Instead, let's flood it with comments asking each other not to flood it with comments.

No.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:01 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

*loads main page, finds no new FPP, returns to this thread, grabs MacBook as it lurches off desk while loading this enormous damn web page, apologizes to computer and whispers, "Ssshhhh, it's OK -- it won't be too long before the thread is light and small."*
posted by wenestvedt at 1:01 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

Also, for the record - PEC/Sam Wang has it as Clinton 91/95% chance (it was 90/94 a few days ago) of winning the election.
posted by cashman at 1:02 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure anyone reads the comments down here, actually.

Well, maybe Tehund. And Egg.
posted by petebest at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]

Fox's Chris Wallace, moderator for the October 19th debate in Las Vegas, won't bother with whether or not candidates are making shit up:

“What do you do if they make assertions that you know to be untrue?”

“That’s not my job,” Wallace replied, without skipping a beat. “It’s not my job to be a truth squad.”

posted by cashman at 1:19 PM on September 5, 2016 [13 favorites]

New article from Charles Blow. Brutal and perfect.

Daaaaaaaaaaaamn. That was beautiful.
posted by petebest at 1:21 PM on September 5, 2016

Also, for what often, and lets be real, usually is a festering pile of nonsense and shit, reddit's politics community has been on point the last month. All sorts of articles that are just like the ones posted here, and a good level of outrage and disbelief at Trump. I don't imagine it'll last too long, but for a while now there have been some really good links.
posted by cashman at 1:22 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wallace said that he was “very proud to be a representative of Fox” in his role as debate moderator. He agreed with Kurtz that his selection dispelled the notion that Fox was a “right-wing network” that “favors Republicans.” [emphasis added]
[real, at least to Chris Wallace]
posted by petebest at 1:25 PM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cashman, that is incredible. I don't even know what to say.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:29 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]

#NextPost
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:21 PM on September 5, 2016 [17 favorites]

NYTIMES: Where there is the possibility of smoke there must be fire! Where there is raging fire we can't detect any smoke.

Joy Reid is going over this on MSNBC right now. It's great.

I wonder how long before Trump tries say something negative about Joy. Because she's crushing it, and I really hope a primetime show is in order for her quite soon.
posted by cashman at 2:22 PM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]

“That’s not my job,” Wallace replied, without skipping a beat. “It’s not my job to be a truth squad.”

I'm torn between #SquadNonGoals and #SquadOwnGoals.
posted by srboisvert at 3:18 PM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]

What is this "Trump can't swim" thing?
posted by drezdn at 3:27 PM on September 5, 2016

#DoodleySquad
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:33 PM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

#Trumpcantswim
And he had built for him (using contractors he cheated on paying) this Mir A Lago palace on the Florida coast and he never goes in the water. Sad!

The only times I think Rising Sea Levels would be a good thing are when I think of a scenario of Trump retiring in disgrace and becoming a hermit in his Mir A Lago palace while the ocean reclaims it. A fitting fate for a Climate Change Denialist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:05 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Despite What Trump Tweets, FiveThirtyEight Isn’t A Pollster"
posted by box at 4:23 PM on September 5, 2016

And he had built for him (using contractors he cheated on paying) this Mir A Lago palace on the Florida coast

Well, he renovated it. It was built in the 20s for Marjorie Merriweather Post.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:48 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]

And he had built for him (using contractors he cheated on paying) this Mir A Lago palace on the Florida coast and he never goes in the water. Sad!

His double-reverse combover can't survive immersion in water - it'd be his Dukakis's tank moment.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:05 PM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]

Originally read this as Sufjan Stevens, and thought to myself
"No wonder Romney lost—that guy's 50 state strategy stalled out after only the first two."

I know it's been weeks and we've moved on to another thread and everything, but I have to come back here Atom Eyes, because this is the funniest thing I've read in a while, and I can't stop chuckling about it.
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on September 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm not sure anyone reads the comments down here, actually.

This is where the sausage gets made.
And the eggses. Yummy yummy eggses.
posted by rokusan at 5:45 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

>> I'm not sure anyone reads the comments down here, actually.

> This is where the sausage gets made.

We just assume that it happens
But no one else is in
The room where it happens.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:03 PM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can Donald Trump see his own sausage?
posted by humanfont at 3:43 PM on September 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hey! What are you kids doing in here?
posted by bongo_x at 6:22 PM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

Help guys I'm lost and can't find newest thread anymore.
posted by corb at 7:24 PM on September 22, 2016 [11 favorites]

Help guys I'm lost and can't find newest thread anymore.

Here. The "politics" and "election" tags are useful.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:39 PM on September 22, 2016

There's also the Posts with Recent Comments page; continuously-active threads will keep bubbling up to the top of the list.
posted by XMLicious at 11:31 AM on September 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

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