Alexander Hamilton's beany guacamole dip: 18 days to go
October 21, 2016 2:15 PM Subscribe
With the final debate behind us (MetaFilter), many people registered and many states now voting, we're into the last few weeks of this increasingly globally watched 2016 US election. These are unhappy days for Donald, with that debate not going well for him and launching a hundred t-shirt designs, the map shrinking, likely voters not helping, and being booed at a charity dinner; sad! Hillary, at increasingly shorter odds to win, seems to be having a better time, while Joe has a hot car (MetaFilter) and Evan McMullin (who) (twitter) continues to make the presidential vote in Utah more interesting. But it's not just the presidency up for election; there's the Senate (538 forecast), House, and various measures such as the minimum wage, and 17 propositions in California (also on MetaFilter), plus a crucial vote in Westport.
Resources
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* Plan your election day; again from Ballotpedia, state-by-state poll opening and closing times.
* Voter information by lampshade.
* The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool. n.b. searched but could not find similar for other POTUS candidates; comment if you know/find similar.
* How to vote in every state by NoxAeternum.
* Voter Registration Deadlines, by Rock The Vote.
Voting accessibility, and voter ID, registration and suppression continue to be concerns on many fronts. For example, in Indiana, the VP candidate Mike Pence is accused of such suppression (more), while in Wisconsin yet more rule changes make voting trickier, in North Carolina early voting is hindered by long lines and in Texas, ads are now running including the word 'reasonably'. Various states ignore orders to restore voter rights, and a myriad of other problems could cause problems on election day, while Snopes has some clarity on the widely-circulated images of responding to poll watchers.
Stop the election I want to get off
- AskMeFi: Wanted: distracting internet stuff, NOT politics or current events
- ...it's really important for you to give yourself a break from this if it's negatively affecting your life (by Deoridhe)
- Best of MetaFilter (contains occasional election links).
- Southern California Public Radio: How to avoid getting stressed by the election.
- A collection of Slow TV videos.
- To see The Blue without certain posts, edit your MeFi Preferences to exclude tags such as Election2016, Trump, Clinton, EvanBecomesPOTUS etc.
As Europe watches goings-on, people trying to influence the outcome include a fugitive (not murdered) and his leaks, a Whitewater Committee special counsel, a fan of both Tolkien and Ayn Rand, the creator of Power Rangers and a TV host who never claimed to be a journalist. However, Vladimir denies trying to influence the result, but would like his people to go monitor the election.
Take it to MetaTalk:
- October 19th: Mefite Election Volunteering.
- October 15th: Can we stop attacking left-of-Clinton/anti-establishment folks on here?
- October 14th: [some appropriate and witty Hamilton post title here] (death of MetaFilter, 2016 edition).
- September 26th: The Election Debate Logistics Thread.
MetaFilter nostalgia: the 2014 US midterm election (please ignore the final paragraph).
Suggested election night cuisine:
- Pro-Trump voters.
- Anti-Trump Republican voters.
- Democrats.
- Greens.
- Evan McMullin supporters.
- Gary Johnson supporters (because).
- People who write in the current POTUS for a third term.
Post title because MeFites.
Resources
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* Plan your election day; again from Ballotpedia, state-by-state poll opening and closing times.
* Voter information by lampshade.
* The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool. n.b. searched but could not find similar for other POTUS candidates; comment if you know/find similar.
* How to vote in every state by NoxAeternum.
* Voter Registration Deadlines, by Rock The Vote.
Voting accessibility, and voter ID, registration and suppression continue to be concerns on many fronts. For example, in Indiana, the VP candidate Mike Pence is accused of such suppression (more), while in Wisconsin yet more rule changes make voting trickier, in North Carolina early voting is hindered by long lines and in Texas, ads are now running including the word 'reasonably'. Various states ignore orders to restore voter rights, and a myriad of other problems could cause problems on election day, while Snopes has some clarity on the widely-circulated images of responding to poll watchers.
Stop the election I want to get off
- AskMeFi: Wanted: distracting internet stuff, NOT politics or current events
- ...it's really important for you to give yourself a break from this if it's negatively affecting your life (by Deoridhe)
- Best of MetaFilter (contains occasional election links).
- Southern California Public Radio: How to avoid getting stressed by the election.
- A collection of Slow TV videos.
- To see The Blue without certain posts, edit your MeFi Preferences to exclude tags such as Election2016, Trump, Clinton, EvanBecomesPOTUS etc.
As Europe watches goings-on, people trying to influence the outcome include a fugitive (not murdered) and his leaks, a Whitewater Committee special counsel, a fan of both Tolkien and Ayn Rand, the creator of Power Rangers and a TV host who never claimed to be a journalist. However, Vladimir denies trying to influence the result, but would like his people to go monitor the election.
Take it to MetaTalk:
- October 19th: Mefite Election Volunteering.
- October 15th: Can we stop attacking left-of-Clinton/anti-establishment folks on here?
- October 14th: [some appropriate and witty Hamilton post title here] (death of MetaFilter, 2016 edition).
- September 26th: The Election Debate Logistics Thread.
MetaFilter nostalgia: the 2014 US midterm election (please ignore the final paragraph).
Suggested election night cuisine:
- Pro-Trump voters.
- Anti-Trump Republican voters.
- Democrats.
- Greens.
- Evan McMullin supporters.
- Gary Johnson supporters (because).
- People who write in the current POTUS for a third term.
Post title because MeFites.
I finally made it to the bottom of an election thread!
posted by carsonb at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [41 favorites]
damnthispostisgood.org
posted by zutalors! at 2:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 2:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
Told someone I would eat a shoe if Clinton won the second district in Maine and now she's ahead there.
Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
posted by selfnoise at 2:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
posted by selfnoise at 2:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
For God's sake give Hillary the presidency now and spare us the next three weeks, okay? Just get this shit over with for crying out loud.
posted by spoobnooble II: electric bugaboo at 2:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by spoobnooble II: electric bugaboo at 2:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
It's all in the sauce
posted by From Bklyn at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Post title because MeFites.
#NextPost "Farmer Refuted"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
#NextPost "Farmer Refuted"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
Or you could play Civilization VI instead. That's where I'll be hiding for the remainder of this month. Good luck America. This Canadian hopes you make the right choice. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to declare war on Harald Hardrada of Norway, that bastard thinks he can renege on an open borders treaty....
posted by Fizz at 2:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 2:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
The ballot propositions in California are a lot to swallow. I had some help from a fellow MeFite on Faceboobs, who helpfully provided clear-eyed analysis from a lefty, liberal, schoolteacher's perspective.
posted by carsonb at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
Programming announcement: the Hamilton Documentary: "Hamilton's America" is on PBS tonight (9pm for me, but check your local listing to be safe) and streaming on Facebook at 9pm Eastern.
I'll try to see if we can get a FanFare thread for it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'll try to see if we can get a FanFare thread for it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
Things have been getting kind of out of hand so everyone, please read all the links in the post before commenting so we can have an informed discussion
posted by beerperson at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
you can make one out of fruit leather, im almost 100% sure i have seen the instructables for it
posted by poffin boffin at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]
you can make one out of fruit leather, im almost 100% sure i have seen the instructables for it
posted by poffin boffin at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]
Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Chrysostom at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016
damnthispostisgood.org
Now redirects to hillaryclinton.com! Wow her team is great!
cf. thatmexicanthing.com, nastywomengetshitdone.com
posted by phunniemee at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Now redirects to hillaryclinton.com! Wow her team is great!
cf. thatmexicanthing.com, nastywomengetshitdone.com
posted by phunniemee at 2:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
We're now in fifth place? Where did H and AFT come from?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.
It's already had an effect here. When I went to renew my medical use card the doctor was extra strict about declaring the need and documenting the traditional treatments I'd rejected.
posted by carsonb at 2:28 PM on October 21, 2016
Chrysostom, if my social circle is any kind of representation, it will increase turnout among stoners, most of whom I would like to think are lefty types. Some of them will vote third party though, because by and large we're a pretty disaffected bunch.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
i want to travel back in time wearing an alexander hamilton costume to terrify baby lin-manuel in his crib, thus saving us all from the endless horrors of hamilmania
posted by poffin boffin at 2:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [44 favorites]
For God's sake give Hillary the presidency now and spare us the next three weeks, okay?
*vibrates*
It's not three weeks; it's only 18 days, OK? That's 72 fewer hours of misery. I couldn't stand three more weeks.
*breathes into bag*
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [24 favorites]
*vibrates*
It's not three weeks; it's only 18 days, OK? That's 72 fewer hours of misery. I couldn't stand three more weeks.
*breathes into bag*
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [24 favorites]
Edible (mostly chocolate) footwear
Pointers on how to eat one's shoe.
posted by porpoise at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Pointers on how to eat one's shoe.
posted by porpoise at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
i want to travel back in time wearing an alexander hamilton costume to terrify baby lin-manuel in his crib, thus saving us all from the endless horrors of hamilmania
Last night, Darth Vader came down from Planet Vulcan and told me that if I write a musical about Alexander Hamilton that he'd melt my brain!
posted by beerperson at 2:34 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
Last night, Darth Vader came down from Planet Vulcan and told me that if I write a musical about Alexander Hamilton that he'd melt my brain!
posted by beerperson at 2:34 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
OMG it's my first election thread where I come to the new thread before it's already too long to even bother reading in full!
posted by Sara C. at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
The National Review's David French on how be an early #NeverTrumper has led to his family expericing a full year of toxic harrassment.
I vaguely remember hearing that rumor that he was thinking of running for President himself, and he struck me as more than a little vainglorious at the time. But the experience he recounts here is nothing short of horrifying, though I can't quite call it surprising either. I wonder if his opening up about this will do anything the change the conversation in the GOP after the election...
posted by Diablevert at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
I vaguely remember hearing that rumor that he was thinking of running for President himself, and he struck me as more than a little vainglorious at the time. But the experience he recounts here is nothing short of horrifying, though I can't quite call it surprising either. I wonder if his opening up about this will do anything the change the conversation in the GOP after the election...
posted by Diablevert at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
I have 99 problems.
48 are related to my work and personal life.
HAMILTON IS
THE OTHER 51!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [118 favorites]
48 are related to my work and personal life.
HAMILTON IS
THE OTHER 51!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [118 favorites]
Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [38 favorites]
Something I forgot to mention in the previous thread; early this morning I was listening to a couple guys who were reading the headlines of USA Today about the debate. One of the guys got this look of disgust on his face and asked the other one if he watched the debate. His pal said no, he wasn't interested, and the first guy said it was so damn annoying he couldn't stand it. He said "He had liked Donald better, but..." and his look just soured as he dropped the topic.
Looks like even some of Donald's fans are starting to get a little tired of him now. These guys really don't like a loser.
Oh, and bookmark!
posted by gusottertrout at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Looks like even some of Donald's fans are starting to get a little tired of him now. These guys really don't like a loser.
Oh, and bookmark!
posted by gusottertrout at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
WA Voting Update: I'm filling out my ballot in Seattle, WA right now even as you read this comments thread!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
beerperson: Things have been getting kind of out of hand so everyone, please read all the links in the post before commenting so we can have an informed discussion
This was one of the jokes that Clinton decided not to tell at the Al Smith dinner.
posted by clawsoon at 2:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]
This was one of the jokes that Clinton decided not to tell at the Al Smith dinner.
posted by clawsoon at 2:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]
Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height
posted by melissasaurus at 2:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [51 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 2:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [51 favorites]
I want more Hamilton and am frankly unhappy we have moved away from Hamilton titles. Yes, I am the cancer killing metafilter but I am okay with that.
posted by asteria at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]
posted by asteria at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]
Stop the election I want to get off
Another option for absorbing yourself in something non-election-related: Civilization VI is out today.
posted by asperity at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Another option for absorbing yourself in something non-election-related: Civilization VI is out today.
posted by asperity at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
While the political pundits have reached a consensus on how Clinton's debate strategy outplayed Trump at the debates, Vox's TV critic has an interesting interpretation on why Trump's own tactics flopped:
Trump’s “Winners and Losers” Mentality Made Him a Hit on Reality TV But a Flop in the Debates
(Once this election is over, media critics are, I predict, going to have a field day dissecting Trump's campaign as the worst season of reality TV ever.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
Trump’s “Winners and Losers” Mentality Made Him a Hit on Reality TV But a Flop in the Debates
(Once this election is over, media critics are, I predict, going to have a field day dissecting Trump's campaign as the worst season of reality TV ever.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
> Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
Lucky for you this is apparently a thing.
posted by ardgedee at 2:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lucky for you this is apparently a thing.
posted by ardgedee at 2:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.
Shoes are gonna look even more delicious, I'm guessing.
posted by ardgedee at 2:48 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
Shoes are gonna look even more delicious, I'm guessing.
posted by ardgedee at 2:48 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
But the experience he recounts here is nothing short of horrifying, though I can't quite call it surprising either
Pretty sure his magazine didn't care when the targets were women daring to talk critically about video games. It was okay then, apparently. But when the target is a conservative pundit, then well! Gloves are off!
posted by suelac at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Pretty sure his magazine didn't care when the targets were women daring to talk critically about video games. It was okay then, apparently. But when the target is a conservative pundit, then well! Gloves are off!
posted by suelac at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Know what? I'm gonna buy Civ VI and get it loading on my computer right now as a reward for voting.
Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes. Like I'm filling it in with the Ink of Disdain!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes. Like I'm filling it in with the Ink of Disdain!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
Trump flopped at the debates with Cinton because the events didn't have Mark Burnett's Fake Reality TV Crew editing his performance to make him look less like a blathering idiot.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.
i'm a reasonably accomplished vegan home cook and pretty sure i could turn out some vegan meatloafers. anyone feel free to memail me if they need to consult about crafting a pair
posted by Gymnopedist at 2:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
i'm a reasonably accomplished vegan home cook and pretty sure i could turn out some vegan meatloafers. anyone feel free to memail me if they need to consult about crafting a pair
posted by Gymnopedist at 2:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Lot of marijuana initiatives on ballots, I wonder what effect that will have.
I'm not sure how it will impact my co-op.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2016
I'm not sure how it will impact my co-op.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2016
Diablevert: "I wonder if his opening up about this will do anything the change the conversation in the GOP after the election..."
SPOILER: Nope.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
SPOILER: Nope.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
I feel like I can distantly sense Sopan Deb slipping into sympathetic madness just looking at this tweet:
Trump on bridges: "You almost don’t want to ride across. Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?"
Uh, is Trump going to be...okay for the next 18 days? I guess I understand what he's saying here? But it's also somewhat concerning.
posted by yasaman at 2:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump on bridges: "You almost don’t want to ride across. Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?"
Uh, is Trump going to be...okay for the next 18 days? I guess I understand what he's saying here? But it's also somewhat concerning.
posted by yasaman at 2:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Alaska: Hillary Commit Calls
Team Alaska needs 3 calls from each member of Hillary's Call Team today!
Georgia: Hillary Commit Calls
Team GA needs 27 calls from each member of Hillary's Call Team today to keep Georgia in play!
GA is needy!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Another option for absorbing yourself in something non-election-related: Civilization VI is out today.
True, this election has very little to do with civilization in any form.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
True, this election has very little to do with civilization in any form.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Pretty sure his magazine didn't care when the targets were women daring to talk critically about video games. It was okay then, apparently. But when the target is a conservative pundit, then well! Gloves are off!
I have no idea what, if anything, the National Review ever published on the subject of gamergate, and I'm not going to spend any time filling that gap in my knowledge. I'm sure they weren't leading the charge against. But that's why I found the article interesting: The rabid dog is locked in the house with them. It's one thing for relatively sane GOPers not to call out this shit when it happens to other people because they fear losing votes from Trump supporters. It's another thing to try and hold a party together when the threat of this kind of treatment is hanging over their own heads like the Sword of Damocles. The Reagan rule was no enemies to my right; can any sane pol look at these guys and call them friend? Trump is the iceberg, the GOP's the Titanic.
posted by Diablevert at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have no idea what, if anything, the National Review ever published on the subject of gamergate, and I'm not going to spend any time filling that gap in my knowledge. I'm sure they weren't leading the charge against. But that's why I found the article interesting: The rabid dog is locked in the house with them. It's one thing for relatively sane GOPers not to call out this shit when it happens to other people because they fear losing votes from Trump supporters. It's another thing to try and hold a party together when the threat of this kind of treatment is hanging over their own heads like the Sword of Damocles. The Reagan rule was no enemies to my right; can any sane pol look at these guys and call them friend? Trump is the iceberg, the GOP's the Titanic.
posted by Diablevert at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax?
yeah, but someone's small little hands keep reaching for things that aren't his
posted by pyramid termite at 3:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
yeah, but someone's small little hands keep reaching for things that aren't his
posted by pyramid termite at 3:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump flopped at the debates with Cinton because the events didn't have Mark Burnett's Fake Reality TV Crew editing his performance to make him look less like a blathering idiot.
He probably figured, I crushed at the primary debates, no problem, I got this. TRUMP has got this! He certainly seems to have winged them, assuming it wasn't disinfo from his campaign about how he didn't do hard prep work. I don't think it was.
posted by thelonius at 3:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
He probably figured, I crushed at the primary debates, no problem, I got this. TRUMP has got this! He certainly seems to have winged them, assuming it wasn't disinfo from his campaign about how he didn't do hard prep work. I don't think it was.
posted by thelonius at 3:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would just like to confess that I have failed to meet the Tehhund standard and now heave such a giant sigh of relief when I see [637 new comments] on the old election thread and then before I click on them I open up MF in a new tab and hop straight to the new election thread instead.... In short: Tehhund, I salute you.
posted by TwoStride at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]
No, I really can't think of a situation where I've come across a bridge large enough to qualify as "infrastructure," even a structurally deficient one, and thought "yeah, it would be way more relaxing to swim this one," somehow dragging a car and personal belongings behind me.
And I know how very much not relaxing "ford the river" is as an option.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
And I know how very much not relaxing "ford the river" is as an option.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
A few weeks back I was in the Bay and happened to pick a dress off a sale rack to have a closer look at the rather interesting fabric. I caught sight of the "Ivanka Trump" tag in the back and put the dress back as quickly as though it had burnt my fingers. A solid majority of North Americans are going to be unwilling to patronize Trump businesses post-election on principle, businesses and organizations that might otherwise not care are going to avoid associating themselves with the Trump name because it'll be a PR nightmare and/or because they now know that Trump doesn't pay his bills, and well, marketing and licensing of the Trump name is the core of the Trump empire.
Trump's defeat at the polls will only be the beginning of a final downward spiral. He faces civil trials for the alleged sexual assault of a 13-year-old and for his Trump University fraud. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the increased media scrutiny and publicity ultimately leads to more civil and even criminal trials. (And you know he'll commit perjury during the trials.) His debt load has been increasingly dramatically in recent years and bankers have become generally unwilling to loan him money because of his atrocious business record and his tendency to not pay his bills if he thinks he can get away with it. Given the way he's basically destroyed his own brand and the fact that he's an incompetent businessman as well as a horrible person at the best of times... he's going nowhere but down. I'm pretty sure Melania will bail at some point too. I'd be very surprised if he manages to marry again after that with his finances in ruins.
Trump reminds me of the Aesop's fable about the dog that was crossing a bridge with meat in its mouth, saw its own reflection in the water, and dropped its meat into the water in an effort to get the "other" dog's meat. His narcissism made him think he could become president despite his complete lack of experience and qualifications for the job, and now he's going to lose what he had. And I'm imagining Hillary watching TV in her living room at the White House, feet propped up after another long and productive day as president, and smiling a little to herself as she sees the next news item about the gradual and total financial and personal disintegration of the man who slandered her, threatened to jail her, incited violence against her, and took it upon himself to criticize her ass.
posted by orange swan at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [160 favorites]
Trump's defeat at the polls will only be the beginning of a final downward spiral. He faces civil trials for the alleged sexual assault of a 13-year-old and for his Trump University fraud. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the increased media scrutiny and publicity ultimately leads to more civil and even criminal trials. (And you know he'll commit perjury during the trials.) His debt load has been increasingly dramatically in recent years and bankers have become generally unwilling to loan him money because of his atrocious business record and his tendency to not pay his bills if he thinks he can get away with it. Given the way he's basically destroyed his own brand and the fact that he's an incompetent businessman as well as a horrible person at the best of times... he's going nowhere but down. I'm pretty sure Melania will bail at some point too. I'd be very surprised if he manages to marry again after that with his finances in ruins.
Trump reminds me of the Aesop's fable about the dog that was crossing a bridge with meat in its mouth, saw its own reflection in the water, and dropped its meat into the water in an effort to get the "other" dog's meat. His narcissism made him think he could become president despite his complete lack of experience and qualifications for the job, and now he's going to lose what he had. And I'm imagining Hillary watching TV in her living room at the White House, feet propped up after another long and productive day as president, and smiling a little to herself as she sees the next news item about the gradual and total financial and personal disintegration of the man who slandered her, threatened to jail her, incited violence against her, and took it upon himself to criticize her ass.
posted by orange swan at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [160 favorites]
> The ballot propositions in California are a lot to swallow. I had some help from a fellow MeFite on Faceboobs, who helpfully provided clear-eyed analysis from a lefty, liberal, schoolteacher's perspective.
carsonb, you can peruse this fpp from a few days ago, too.
posted by rtha at 3:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
carsonb, you can peruse this fpp from a few days ago, too.
posted by rtha at 3:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?
INT. LIMOUSINE - DAY - TRAVELING
Trump gazes across the Allegheny River. As we zoom in on a single sailboat, its sail barely fluttering, we hear Lou Reed's "Perfect Day".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
INT. LIMOUSINE - DAY - TRAVELING
Trump gazes across the Allegheny River. As we zoom in on a single sailboat, its sail barely fluttering, we hear Lou Reed's "Perfect Day".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
I have been amazed to see how good HRC is at manipulating the Donald. He is putty in her hands.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
After this:
> Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.
And this (previous thread):
>>Trump’s roast
>Mmmmm ... Trump roast.
I am now definitely making rump roast on election night. Mmmmm...
Recipe for "Trump Roast with Bed-wetter's Risotto" coming up.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
> Unless you are a vegetarian, you could make meatloafers.
And this (previous thread):
>>Trump’s roast
>Mmmmm ... Trump roast.
I am now definitely making rump roast on election night. Mmmmm...
Recipe for "Trump Roast with Bed-wetter's Risotto" coming up.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Re: edible shoes: how about making huaraches?
posted by janewman at 3:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by janewman at 3:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Economist has still not offered its endorsement, but does refer to Clinton as "America's probable next President" in an article about why so many people seem to hate her (most, it concludes, irrationally) and offers a comparison of Clinton '16 vs Obama '12 - it asserts she's actually ahead more broadly than he was four years ago.
Also, from 1992: "The central point about Mrs Clinton, however, is that she is being judged by an absurd double-standard." Well!
posted by psoas at 3:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also, from 1992: "The central point about Mrs Clinton, however, is that she is being judged by an absurd double-standard." Well!
posted by psoas at 3:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height
A Republican flirting with, then betraying Hayek when it didn't work out? We used to call that Reaganomics.
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [155 favorites]
A Republican flirting with, then betraying Hayek when it didn't work out? We used to call that Reaganomics.
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [155 favorites]
I just want it over just so I'm not subjected to these endless ads for local races. I saw one last night from a guy running for Attorney General, promising to "curb Washington's overreach." WTF does that even mean? "I'm not going to enforce any laws I don't care for?"
posted by Thorzdad at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I saw Trump touch Hillary at least four times last night. Wapo had a picture with him with his hand on her, front page today. What a clueless knucklehead.
posted by Oyéah at 3:14 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 3:14 PM on October 21, 2016
I've been living this election for the past 18 months and am honestly a little lost about what to do once it's over (other than start salivating for the 2020 GOP primary debates). Will I find a new hobby? Will I start doing audiobooks again once the explosion of election-related podcasts subsides? I knew this day would come eventually, but I fear I have become a man of a dying era. Whispered stories will tell of the madman who never stopped thinking about the 2016 election. Was Sammy Jenkins the running mate, or the candidate?
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Trump's got new policy everyone: "I will work with Congress to require for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be immediately eliminated."
First, we've got 17 days to go. Who the hell decides to roll out new policy at this point in the game?
But how does this even work? Do the regulations have to be equivalent, either in scale or in topic? If we want to, I don't know, limit the amount of a dangerous chemical in drinking water, do we have to allow arsenic or can we repeal the regulation that says that locomotive engineers need access to an operable restroom on their train (this is actually considered a safety regulation, with good reason)? We just issued an emergency regulation banning the Galaxy Note 7 on planes; would we have to delay that effort while someone combed through the CFR looking for something that sounds stupid so they can repeal it?
Anyway, I know what regulation Trump would start with: 42 USC §6928 & 40 CFR §257.3–7(a) make it a federal crime to start an uncontrolled toxic garbage fire.
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [52 favorites]
First, we've got 17 days to go. Who the hell decides to roll out new policy at this point in the game?
But how does this even work? Do the regulations have to be equivalent, either in scale or in topic? If we want to, I don't know, limit the amount of a dangerous chemical in drinking water, do we have to allow arsenic or can we repeal the regulation that says that locomotive engineers need access to an operable restroom on their train (this is actually considered a safety regulation, with good reason)? We just issued an emergency regulation banning the Galaxy Note 7 on planes; would we have to delay that effort while someone combed through the CFR looking for something that sounds stupid so they can repeal it?
Anyway, I know what regulation Trump would start with: 42 USC §6928 & 40 CFR §257.3–7(a) make it a federal crime to start an uncontrolled toxic garbage fire.
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [52 favorites]
orange swan: A solid majority of North Americans are going to be unwilling to patronize Trump businesses post-election on principle, businesses and organizations that might otherwise not care are going to avoid associating themselves with the Trump name because it'll be a PR nightmare and/or because they now know that Trump doesn't pay his bills, and well, marketing and licensing of the Trump name is the core of the Trump empire.
Aye, but he has also created a solid minority of rabid followers who may be willing to pay good money for pure bullshit, a resource which Trump has proven he is able to supply in great abundance.
posted by clawsoon at 3:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Aye, but he has also created a solid minority of rabid followers who may be willing to pay good money for pure bullshit, a resource which Trump has proven he is able to supply in great abundance.
posted by clawsoon at 3:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I'm subscribed to three election related podcasts right now.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2016
Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height
Based on the headline alone, I thought this was going to be some kind of petty vengeance thing, which was bad enough. But then I read the story and realized it was an epic attempt at negging on the grandest scale.
Yuck. Trump was the original PUA.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Based on the headline alone, I thought this was going to be some kind of petty vengeance thing, which was bad enough. But then I read the story and realized it was an epic attempt at negging on the grandest scale.
Yuck. Trump was the original PUA.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
i want to travel back in time wearing an alexander hamilton costume to terrify baby lin-manuel in his crib
And that little boy grew up to write America's favorite musical, The Hambeast.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
And that little boy grew up to write America's favorite musical, The Hambeast.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
Trump's got new policy everyone: "I will work with Congress to require for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be immediately eliminated."
There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
Huh. Salma Hayek Is ridiculously out of Trump's league in every conceivable way.
posted by Artw at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height
He didn't just ask her out, he befriended her boyfriend so he could get her phone number.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th? I want to choose 9:38 Central Time as when the first major network calls the Presidential race.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Midnight Skulker at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump on bridges: "You almost don’t want to ride across. Does anybody ever want to swim and just relax? Know you’re going to be alive?"
OMG I am learning to speak Trump. I read the whole thing and understand what he is trying to say.
Help me..
posted by Jalliah at 3:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
OMG I am learning to speak Trump. I read the whole thing and understand what he is trying to say.
Help me..
posted by Jalliah at 3:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
I would just like to confess that I have failed to meet the Tehhund standard and now heave such a giant sigh of relief when I see [637 new comments] on the old election thread and then before I click on them I open up MF in a new tab and hop straight to the new election thread instead.... In short: Tehhund, I salute you.
Yeah, I used to read every comment in every thread. Then I got really busy at work and couldn't slack it as much. Now I'll read through what I can, but generally skip over anything between the hours of midnight to 6AM. And skimming past derails. And taking hour or so sanity breaks when it all gets too ridiculous. Gotta triage these things.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I used to read every comment in every thread. Then I got really busy at work and couldn't slack it as much. Now I'll read through what I can, but generally skip over anything between the hours of midnight to 6AM. And skimming past derails. And taking hour or so sanity breaks when it all gets too ridiculous. Gotta triage these things.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump's got new policy everyone: "I will work with Congress to require for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be immediately eliminated."
Repealing regulations is subject to the same "can't be arbitrary and capricious" standard as adopting regulations. So, good luck with that.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
> Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th? I want to choose 9:38 Central Time as when the first major network calls the Presidential race.
(overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.
posted by ardgedee at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
(overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.
posted by ardgedee at 3:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th?
A friend of mine has been saying "Nine Forty."
When pressed he'll explain; 9PM, 40 states.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
A friend of mine has been saying "Nine Forty."
When pressed he'll explain; 9PM, 40 states.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Repealing regulations is subject to the same "can't be arbitrary and capricious" standard as adopting regulations. So, good luck with that.
If only this standard also applied to being President.
posted by No-sword at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
If only this standard also applied to being President.
posted by No-sword at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
I caught sight of the "Ivanka Trump" tag in the back and put the dress back as quickly as though it had burnt my fingers
My mom called me the other day to bemoan how she'd been at the mall and seen several dresses that she really liked and wanted to try on... until she saw the Ivanka Trump label and refused. She was disappointed at not being able to buy the dress, but said there was no way she could imagine supporting that family in any way, no matter how faint...
posted by TwoStride at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
My mom called me the other day to bemoan how she'd been at the mall and seen several dresses that she really liked and wanted to try on... until she saw the Ivanka Trump label and refused. She was disappointed at not being able to buy the dress, but said there was no way she could imagine supporting that family in any way, no matter how faint...
posted by TwoStride at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
Erick Erickson is calling 9:05.
Networks may hold off a little while longer. But we'll know it's over.
(Still we cling... We don't know where else we can go...)
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Networks may hold off a little while longer. But we'll know it's over.
(Still we cling... We don't know where else we can go...)
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
By 10:25 Central, Hillary will not only have had the Presidential race called for her, but she will also have been awarded the Prime Ministership of Spain, the Lady Byng Trophy, the title of Human Tornado and the DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight championship belt.
posted by delfin at 3:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by delfin at 3:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
Trump translation: Pennsylvania has a problem with bridge infastructure. Many of them are structurally deficient. Some are so bad that it's scary to drive over them. So bad that you'd feel safer and more relaxed swimming instead of driving on them. My plan is to fix these bridges.
posted by Jalliah at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
“What a waste of time if we don’t pull this off,” Trump said. “You know, these guys have said: ‘It doesn’t matter if you win or lose, there’s never been a movement like this in the history of this country.’ I say: It matters to me if we win or lose. So, I’ll have over $100 million of my own money in this campaign."Stimulate your schadenfreude gland with this WaPo article: Donald Trump is in a funk: Bitter, hoarse and pondering, ‘If I lose. . .’
“So, if I lose,” Trump continued, as the crowd remained unusually quiet. “If I lose, I will consider this. . .”
Trump didn’t finish his sentence, but he didn’t really need to. After weeks of controversy and declining poll numbers, Trump and his campaign have settled into a dark funk. Even as he vows to prevail in the race, the GOP nominee’s mood has soured with less than three weeks to go until Election Day.
posted by glhaynes at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height
A Republican flirting with, then betraying Hayek when it didn't work out? We used to call that Reaganomics.
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on October 21 [10 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
You win this thread.
posted by chavenet at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [19 favorites]
A Republican flirting with, then betraying Hayek when it didn't work out? We used to call that Reaganomics.
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on October 21 [10 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
You win this thread.
posted by chavenet at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [19 favorites]
Aye, but he has also created a solid minority of rabid followers who may be willing to pay good money for pure bullshit, a resource which Trump has proven he is able to supply in great abundance.
While this is true, he would still have to have to get the funding and hire designers, manufacturers, marketing/sales and distributors in order to get his products to his market. (Can you imagine any major chain store being willing to stock his products? Even Wal-Mart?) All of that will be an uphill battle, and then it's all to get products to people who don't have much money as his supporters tend to be low-income. And let's remember, he had a long list of failed business products even before he destroyed his own brand.
posted by orange swan at 3:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
While this is true, he would still have to have to get the funding and hire designers, manufacturers, marketing/sales and distributors in order to get his products to his market. (Can you imagine any major chain store being willing to stock his products? Even Wal-Mart?) All of that will be an uphill battle, and then it's all to get products to people who don't have much money as his supporters tend to be low-income. And let's remember, he had a long list of failed business products even before he destroyed his own brand.
posted by orange swan at 3:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
You people are all tempting the wrath from high atop the thing.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [107 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [107 favorites]
You want to watch this. A new video about Clinton's impact with the Children's Defense Fund and Children's Health Insurance.
Martha and Sara
posted by chris24 at 3:38 PM on October 21, 2016 [28 favorites]
Martha and Sara
posted by chris24 at 3:38 PM on October 21, 2016 [28 favorites]
Not to rehash the Russia conversation from the other thread, but bringing up McCarthy is interesting- is Trump basically the McCarthy of our times not just in terms of accusing American citizens and inspiring witch hunts, but by flaming out in the worst of ways after having shaken American politics to their core, causing society to simply shrug, "Well, that was weird" and move on?
Because the Trump campaign will either be McCarthy, where millions of Americans leave the bad dream, or he'll be Nixon, where his actions and character will poison the political atmosphere for decades. This might be a simplistic dichotomy so I'm open to suggestions on revising this model.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
Because the Trump campaign will either be McCarthy, where millions of Americans leave the bad dream, or he'll be Nixon, where his actions and character will poison the political atmosphere for decades. This might be a simplistic dichotomy so I'm open to suggestions on revising this model.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
Is it too soon to start a pool on when the election will be called on Tuesday night, the 8th?
Going through the 538 current electoral map, she only gets to 266 by 9PM EST, even if every swing state is called right away and she definitely takes "light blue" states like Ohio and Iowa (where polls don't close till 10PM EST anyhow).
Oregon* closes in the 10PM EST hour, however, which should put her easily over 270. So I'm saying 10PM EST assuming there are no "too close to call" states and/or she doesn't take either Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, or Utah.
Poll closing information from here.
*Oregon is exclusively vote-by-mail, though, right? So what does that 10PM time constitute? Can Oregon be called before then?
posted by Sara C. at 3:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Going through the 538 current electoral map, she only gets to 266 by 9PM EST, even if every swing state is called right away and she definitely takes "light blue" states like Ohio and Iowa (where polls don't close till 10PM EST anyhow).
Oregon* closes in the 10PM EST hour, however, which should put her easily over 270. So I'm saying 10PM EST assuming there are no "too close to call" states and/or she doesn't take either Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, or Utah.
Poll closing information from here.
*Oregon is exclusively vote-by-mail, though, right? So what does that 10PM time constitute? Can Oregon be called before then?
posted by Sara C. at 3:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
My plan is to fix these bridges.
Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something. Like, why is this a national election issue?
posted by Sara C. at 3:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something. Like, why is this a national election issue?
posted by Sara C. at 3:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, then yeah, barring a red state miracle or swing states being too close to call when the polls close, my prediction is somewhere in the 10PM EST/7PM PST hour.
posted by Sara C. at 3:48 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Sara C. at 3:48 PM on October 21, 2016
You won't be able to go to bed then, though. Stay up and see how blue we can make Congress.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Salma Hayek: I Denied Trump A Date, So He Planted A National Enquirer Story About My Height
I'm in fear that even one person in this thread will fail to click through to read this stupendous story:
And now Salma is married to an actual billionaire.
posted by sallybrown at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [90 favorites]
I'm in fear that even one person in this thread will fail to click through to read this stupendous story:
“When I told him I wouldn’t go out with him even if I didn’t have a boyfriend, [which he took as disrespectful], he called — well, he wouldn’t say he called, but someone told the National Enquirer,” Hayek continued, adding that she never went out with him."Oh Salma, I would hate to think people thought you failed to land Trump because despite being one of the most beautiful women on Earth and a talented actress, you're on the shorter side. Thankfully I have just the solution, one that only I can provide: a date with Trump!"
“Someone told the National Enquirer — I’m not going to say who, because you know that whatever he wants to come out comes out in the National Enquirer. It said that he wouldn’t go out with me because I was too short,” she said.
“Later, he called and left me a message. ‘Can you believe this? Who would say this? I don’t want people to think this about you,’” she said. “He thought that I would try to go out with him so people wouldn’t think that’s why he wouldn’t go out with me.”
And now Salma is married to an actual billionaire.
posted by sallybrown at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [90 favorites]
PA gov election not until 2018.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Chrysostom at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016
All I want for Christmas is Arizona blue.
@chrislhayes
Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’ [Hillary Clinton leads Democratic charge into red states]
posted by chris24 at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
@chrislhayes
Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’ [Hillary Clinton leads Democratic charge into red states]
posted by chris24 at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
You won't be able to go to bed then, though.
That's fine, I don't think I've slept since the Republican National Convention.
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
That's fine, I don't think I've slept since the Republican National Convention.
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something.
New Jersey might have an opening soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
New Jersey might have an opening soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
My dumb* fiancé is in a dumb* comedy show (about this election, natch) at 8PM PST on election night, so as long as I know we're spared a Trump administration, I can handle the rest after the house lights come back up.
*Used for effect because HOW CAN HE NOT KNOW WHY THIS ELECTION NIGHT IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER ELECTION NIGHTS
posted by Sara C. at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
*Used for effect because HOW CAN HE NOT KNOW WHY THIS ELECTION NIGHT IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER ELECTION NIGHTS
posted by Sara C. at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Tom Wolf is most certainly not the reason we're not fixing the bridges here.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Going through the 538 current electoral map, she only gets to 266 by 9PM EST, even if every swing state is called right away and she definitely takes "light blue" states like Ohio and Iowa (where polls don't close till 10PM EST anyhow).
Yeah but we'll know California is on its way. The nets may not call it, but if the 9pm states generally go decently for her, it'll all be over but the whining.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah but we'll know California is on its way. The nets may not call it, but if the 9pm states generally go decently for her, it'll all be over but the whining.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
My dumb* fiancé is in a dumb* comedy show (about this election, natch) at 8PM PST on election night, so as long as I know we're spared a Trump administration, I can handle the rest after the house lights come back up.
Wow… if we aren't done by then, are they just going to MST3K CNN or something?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:57 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow… if we aren't done by then, are they just going to MST3K CNN or something?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:57 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’
This will be perfect for the 2050 U.S. History textbook chapter on how the GOP ceased to exist because they persisted in racism and xenophobia in the face of obvious demographic evidence and the efforts of many inside and outside their party.
posted by sallybrown at 3:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [52 favorites]
This will be perfect for the 2050 U.S. History textbook chapter on how the GOP ceased to exist because they persisted in racism and xenophobia in the face of obvious demographic evidence and the efforts of many inside and outside their party.
posted by sallybrown at 3:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [52 favorites]
Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’
That needs to be on every fucking taco truck in the state
posted by ocschwar at 4:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [69 favorites]
That needs to be on every fucking taco truck in the state
posted by ocschwar at 4:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [69 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen, I can only hope. Also, it's topical comedy and everyone involved in the show are liberal political dorks like us (SERIOUSLY HOW CAN THEY HAVE SCHEDULED A SHOW FOR ELECTION NIGHT), so either that or we repair to a bar to watch the returns stream in and party along with our fellow west coast liberal elites.
posted by Sara C. at 4:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sara C. at 4:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
“So, if I lose,” Trump continued, as the crowd remained unusually quiet. “If I lose, I will consider this. . .”...Treason! I have been betrayed and deceived from the very beginning! What a monstrous betrayal of the American people. But all these traitors will pay. They will pay with their own blood! They shall drown in their own blood! [Tiffany, please calm yourself.] My orders have fallen on deaf ears. Under these circumstances, it is impossible to lead. It's over. The election is lost. But gentlemen, if you believe I am going to leave Trump Tower, you are seriously mistaken. I'd rather blow my brains out.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 4:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
I am currently not employed, and my wife is taking the day off. So my plan is to vote when the polls open, then drink all day and fret.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Maybe Trump should just run for governor of Pennsylvania or something. Like, why is this a national election issue?
It's not just Pennsylvania. There are serious infrastructure problems throughout the country.
It's Time to Fix America's Infrastructure. Here's Where to Start
The American Society of Civil Engineers says the US needs massive investments in all essential infrastructure, from bridges and airports to dams and railways. According to the society’s most recent infrastructure report card, the US earns a D+ for its infrastructure. It is, in a word, a mess. This is about much more than potholes. This is about keeping the economy, literally and figuratively, moving. Much of the economic boom the United States has experienced over the last 50 years is because the network of highways makes it easy to ship goods. If it continues into a state of disrepair, the long-term hit to our economy could be catastrophic.System Overload
From the crumbling bridges of California to the overflowing sewage drains of Houston and the rusting railroad tracks in the Northeast Corridor, decaying infrastructure is all around us, and the consequences are so familiar that we barely notice them—like urban traffic congestion, slow-moving trains, and flights that are often disrupted, thanks to an outdated air-traffic-control system. The costs are significant, once you reckon wasted time, lost productivity, poor public-health outcomes, and increased carbon emissions.posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
...
Today, we spend significantly less, as a share of G.D.P., on infrastructure than we did fifty years ago—less, even, than fifteen years ago. As the economist Larry Summers has pointed out, once you adjust for depreciation, the U.S. makes no net investment in public infrastructure.
My election night plans: a massive all-girl street party in front of the White House, which Obama wisely lights up pink. I feel like that could happen?
posted by sallybrown at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [36 favorites]
So my plan is to vote when the polls open, then drink all day and fret.
I asked to take the day after off because I will likely be hung over one way or the other.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
>It's Time to Fix America's Infrastructure. Here's Where to Start
...by spending $25B on a wall between us and Mexico.
Or does it not say that for some reason?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
...by spending $25B on a wall between us and Mexico.
Or does it not say that for some reason?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes. Like I'm filling it in with the Ink of Disdain!
One of the best things about my political science 101 class last fall was that the author who wrote our textbook HATED Tim Eyman and took a lot of pains to rip on him several times. It was great.
No ballot here yet. I know it's in the mail and will be here soon but I want it now. It's a blustery afternoon turning into a blustery evening and I can think of no better way to spend my evening than cozied up on my couch in front of a fire with a bottle of Sea Cider and watching that Hamilton thing on PBS while I fill out my ballot. Why yes, I am single, thanks for asking.
posted by palomar at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
One of the best things about my political science 101 class last fall was that the author who wrote our textbook HATED Tim Eyman and took a lot of pains to rip on him several times. It was great.
No ballot here yet. I know it's in the mail and will be here soon but I want it now. It's a blustery afternoon turning into a blustery evening and I can think of no better way to spend my evening than cozied up on my couch in front of a fire with a bottle of Sea Cider and watching that Hamilton thing on PBS while I fill out my ballot. Why yes, I am single, thanks for asking.
posted by palomar at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
And yet, with interest rates at record lows, with investors basically begging us to hold on to their money and spend it on whatever, we spend Presidential debates talking about how big the debt is rather than what we can buy to improve the nation.
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [34 favorites]
Oregon is exclusively vote-by-mail, though, right? So what does that 10PM time constitute? Can Oregon be called before then?
You can't mail in your ballot after a certain date and be sure it will arrive in time. (Qualification is by date received, not postmark.)
But you can drop off your ballot in person at the county election HQ on election day, and maybe some other locations, until 7pm. Even though most ballots will be counted by then, they won't announce any results until no one's vote can be affected.
posted by msalt at 4:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
You can't mail in your ballot after a certain date and be sure it will arrive in time. (Qualification is by date received, not postmark.)
But you can drop off your ballot in person at the county election HQ on election day, and maybe some other locations, until 7pm. Even though most ballots will be counted by then, they won't announce any results until no one's vote can be affected.
posted by msalt at 4:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jan Brewer says she's not worried Latino voters in AZ will boost Clinton: “Nah...They don’t get out and vote.’’
I love how the GOP's own 2012 campaign "autopsy report" boiled down to "Guys, we seriously need to stop being (or at least appearing) so racist or we're really fucked in the future'" and the base's response was "HA HA YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW FUCKED WE CAN MAKE THINGS!!111".
posted by Sangermaine at 4:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [110 favorites]
I love how the GOP's own 2012 campaign "autopsy report" boiled down to "Guys, we seriously need to stop being (or at least appearing) so racist or we're really fucked in the future'" and the base's response was "HA HA YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW FUCKED WE CAN MAKE THINGS!!111".
posted by Sangermaine at 4:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [110 favorites]
There are serious infrastructure problems throughout the country.
Sure, but as a Republican and general plutocrat, Trump doesn't actually want to spend money on that stuff. This is red meat "why are poor people supporting this guy when he represents everything that is against their interests" territory.
Rational people should be electing a Democrat who actually believes in addressing this stuff at the federal level, and then elect people to congress and the senate who won't obstruct federal infrastructure spending initiatives.
posted by Sara C. at 4:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sure, but as a Republican and general plutocrat, Trump doesn't actually want to spend money on that stuff. This is red meat "why are poor people supporting this guy when he represents everything that is against their interests" territory.
Rational people should be electing a Democrat who actually believes in addressing this stuff at the federal level, and then elect people to congress and the senate who won't obstruct federal infrastructure spending initiatives.
posted by Sara C. at 4:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
and then elect people to congress and the senate who won't obstruct federal infrastructure spending initiatives.
That would involve getting off our lazy asses and voting on mid-term elections, so no.
posted by Mooski at 4:13 PM on October 21, 2016
That would involve getting off our lazy asses and voting on mid-term elections, so no.
posted by Mooski at 4:13 PM on October 21, 2016
Or remember in January 2013 when then-Louisiana Governor Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?
I guess they decided doing the opposite was the better choice.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
I guess they decided doing the opposite was the better choice.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCMENT:
The Bad Lip Reading of the second debate is an extremely good diversion from the sordid details of reality. Satire may be dead, but absurdism is not.
posted by jeremias at 4:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
The Bad Lip Reading of the second debate is an extremely good diversion from the sordid details of reality. Satire may be dead, but absurdism is not.
posted by jeremias at 4:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?
What? Democrats are the stupid party. Republicans are the evil party.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
What? Democrats are the stupid party. Republicans are the evil party.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
@seanhannity
In 10 yrs @wikileaks has gotten nothing wrong & no one's been killed bc of the info released. #freejulianassange #freeinternet for all.
@TVietor08 Tommy Vietor Retweeted Sean Hannity
Wikileaks practices are now criticized by Glenn Greenwald and praised by Hannity. Time for you to go, 2016.
posted by chris24 at 4:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [36 favorites]
In 10 yrs @wikileaks has gotten nothing wrong & no one's been killed bc of the info released. #freejulianassange #freeinternet for all.
@TVietor08 Tommy Vietor Retweeted Sean Hannity
Wikileaks practices are now criticized by Glenn Greenwald and praised by Hannity. Time for you to go, 2016.
posted by chris24 at 4:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [36 favorites]
Paul Ryan attacked Bernie Sanders. It backfired spectacularly.
Ryan’s hit on Sanders backfired, badly. Citing Ryan’s comments in a fundraising blast, Sanders was able to raise just under $2 million in two days for about a dozen Democratic Senate and House candidates — furthering his chances of actually becoming budget committee chair.posted by xyzzy at 4:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [101 favorites]
My prediction is that, in a weird bit of synchronicity with all the Hamilton thread titles, Trump hatches a crazy scheme to invade Mexico and install himself as emperor after he loses, like crazy post-duel Burr did.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
I just finished my ballot and drove it straight to the post office to drop it in the box, having triple-checked to make sure I affixed a stamp.
In 2008, I supported HRC in the WA caucus even though it was clearly a done deal for Obama here. I don't regret his victory. At no point did I feel like I was settling for the lesser of evils or any of that nonsense and I was thrilled when he won the election. Eight years later, I still feel that way. This year, I supported HRC in the WA caucus again, even though WA was a done deal for Sanders...and while I wasn't all that thrilled with Sanders, he had real merit and I'd have gladly voted for him in the general if he'd won the nomination.
But I'm not afraid to admit I got a little bit choked up putting that ballot in the mailbox for Hillary Clinton.
Also fuck everything about Donald Trump forever. And fuck Tim Eyman, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [35 favorites]
In 2008, I supported HRC in the WA caucus even though it was clearly a done deal for Obama here. I don't regret his victory. At no point did I feel like I was settling for the lesser of evils or any of that nonsense and I was thrilled when he won the election. Eight years later, I still feel that way. This year, I supported HRC in the WA caucus again, even though WA was a done deal for Sanders...and while I wasn't all that thrilled with Sanders, he had real merit and I'd have gladly voted for him in the general if he'd won the nomination.
But I'm not afraid to admit I got a little bit choked up putting that ballot in the mailbox for Hillary Clinton.
Also fuck everything about Donald Trump forever. And fuck Tim Eyman, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [35 favorites]
Yeah, I'm subscribed to three election related podcasts right now.
Hah! Slacker. I'm subscribed to 11 election related podcasts if you don't count Ciquizza which is a quiz show that mostly sticks to politics.
(Can you imagine any major chain store being willing to stock his products? Even Wal-Mart?) All of that will be an uphill battle, and then it's all to get products to people who don't have much money as his supporters tend to be low-income. And let's remember, he had a long list of failed business products even before he destroyed his own brand.
posted by orange swan at 6:29 PM
His supporters tend to make more than average salaries-- this is a topic that keeps coming up because we all want to believe that it is the impoverished who are lashing out in anger. But it is actually the comfortable who are lashing out because they don't like change and feel their rights as the White Elite are slipping away.
Also, I would not be surprised at all to see WalMart carry some new line of Trump stuff-- they can shelve it right next to the Duck Dynasty products. However in order to do this Trump would have to bring his name to a downmarket line of goods-- rather than expensive steaks and vodka it would have to be beef jerky and cheesepuffs.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Hah! Slacker. I'm subscribed to 11 election related podcasts if you don't count Ciquizza which is a quiz show that mostly sticks to politics.
(Can you imagine any major chain store being willing to stock his products? Even Wal-Mart?) All of that will be an uphill battle, and then it's all to get products to people who don't have much money as his supporters tend to be low-income. And let's remember, he had a long list of failed business products even before he destroyed his own brand.
posted by orange swan at 6:29 PM
His supporters tend to make more than average salaries-- this is a topic that keeps coming up because we all want to believe that it is the impoverished who are lashing out in anger. But it is actually the comfortable who are lashing out because they don't like change and feel their rights as the White Elite are slipping away.
Also, I would not be surprised at all to see WalMart carry some new line of Trump stuff-- they can shelve it right next to the Duck Dynasty products. However in order to do this Trump would have to bring his name to a downmarket line of goods-- rather than expensive steaks and vodka it would have to be beef jerky and cheesepuffs.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
The real question now is, who is going to play Donald Trump in Game Change 2: The Facepalming? . Jon Voight with a wig?
posted by elgilito at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by elgilito at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ryan’s hit on Sanders backfired, badly
Yeah what was he thinking? Sanders almost won the Democratic nomination and is at the height of his popularity. Millions of people want him to have power. Most people, even Republicans, want Ryan to go suck an egg.
posted by dis_integration at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [30 favorites]
Yeah what was he thinking? Sanders almost won the Democratic nomination and is at the height of his popularity. Millions of people want him to have power. Most people, even Republicans, want Ryan to go suck an egg.
posted by dis_integration at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [30 favorites]
I want more Hamilton and am frankly unhappy we have moved away from Hamilton titles.
for your crimes you will be made to suffer the procession of shame
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
for your crimes you will be made to suffer the procession of shame
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
ardgedee: (overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.
Heh, I guessed without even looking which company that would be. They are very well-known for declaring winners and paying out early. They do it as a publicity stunt when one contender is well ahead, more than a sense that the race is truly over. In one case, they paid out on Manchester United to win the Premier League, and United subsequently didn't. If I knew literally nothing about the election other than the fact that they'd paid out, I'd guess that Clinton was about 1/4, 1/5 favourite at this point.
posted by Pink Frost at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016
Heh, I guessed without even looking which company that would be. They are very well-known for declaring winners and paying out early. They do it as a publicity stunt when one contender is well ahead, more than a sense that the race is truly over. In one case, they paid out on Manchester United to win the Premier League, and United subsequently didn't. If I knew literally nothing about the election other than the fact that they'd paid out, I'd guess that Clinton was about 1/4, 1/5 favourite at this point.
posted by Pink Frost at 4:27 PM on October 21, 2016
Yeah what was he thinking? Sanders almost won the Democratic nomination and is at the height of his popularity. Millions of people want him to have power. Most people, even Republicans, want Ryan to go suck an egg.
I really want to see him cry on camera John Boehner style.
Not as much as I want to see him lose reelection, or lose the Speakership to the Democrats, but Paul Ryan's tears of "Why did I forsake Jesus? I got nothing for it!" are on my wish list.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I really want to see him cry on camera John Boehner style.
Not as much as I want to see him lose reelection, or lose the Speakership to the Democrats, but Paul Ryan's tears of "Why did I forsake Jesus? I got nothing for it!" are on my wish list.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
@AliVitali I'm told Trump's speech tomorrow in Gettysburg will be a preview of his first 100 days and offer a positive forward vision.
That actually might be very interesting to hear. He has promised to do so many things "On Day One" that I would love to hear what his fantasy Presidential term would be like. I mean Day One is "Crime will end" so where do you go from there (fakish, it is not the exact wording but it is close.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
That actually might be very interesting to hear. He has promised to do so many things "On Day One" that I would love to hear what his fantasy Presidential term would be like. I mean Day One is "Crime will end" so where do you go from there (fakish, it is not the exact wording but it is close.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
>>I want more Hamilton and am frankly unhappy we have moved away from Hamilton titles.
> for your crimes you will be made to suffer the procession of shame
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 21 [+] [!]
since when are you a democratic-republican?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:31 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
> for your crimes you will be made to suffer the procession of shame
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 21 [+] [!]
since when are you a democratic-republican?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:31 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet
posted by poffin boffin at 4:34 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 4:34 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
Erick Erickson is calling 9:05.
No. I'm going to be in class until 9 on election day, it'll all be over when I get home.
Last presidential election we were at a Madonna concert on election day and we found out that Obama had won the election from the Material Girl herself. She then stripped down to her underwear in celebration.
posted by octothorpe at 4:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [42 favorites]
No. I'm going to be in class until 9 on election day, it'll all be over when I get home.
Last presidential election we were at a Madonna concert on election day and we found out that Obama had won the election from the Material Girl herself. She then stripped down to her underwear in celebration.
posted by octothorpe at 4:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [42 favorites]
scaryblackdeath: "Also, as I imagine most Washingtonians on MeFi can appreciate: Every time I fill in the bubble on a ballot initiative, I like to imagine I'm rubbing a pen in Tim Eyman's stupid eyes."
So, what did you do on I-732?
posted by Chrysostom at 4:36 PM on October 21, 2016
So, what did you do on I-732?
posted by Chrysostom at 4:36 PM on October 21, 2016
Richard Branson's latest blog post:
Even before the starters arrived he began telling me about how he had asked a number of people for help after his latest bankruptcy and how five of them were unwilling to help. He told me he was going to spend the rest of his life destroying these five people.posted by Room 641-A at 4:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
The real question now is, who is going to play Donald Trump in Game Change 2: The Facepalming? . Jon Voight with a wig?
I want a Game Change directed by the Coen Brothers, starring John Carroll Lynch as Trump and Frances McDormand as Clinton. Even without the Fargo-ness, I think these people would be *perfectly* suited to their roles. But the Fargo-ness adds to it because of how 90stalgic this election is. And it's a surreal and strange idea that seems wrong and implausible, like this year.
posted by sallybrown at 4:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I want a Game Change directed by the Coen Brothers, starring John Carroll Lynch as Trump and Frances McDormand as Clinton. Even without the Fargo-ness, I think these people would be *perfectly* suited to their roles. But the Fargo-ness adds to it because of how 90stalgic this election is. And it's a surreal and strange idea that seems wrong and implausible, like this year.
posted by sallybrown at 4:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump Hotels Ditching Name For New Hotels
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Nightly rates at the newly-opened Trump International Hotel in D.C. plummeted below $500 while practically every other five-star property was sold out for the International Monetary Fund conference two weeks ago. And after his remarks about Mexican immigrants, two celebrity chefs backed out of their contracts to open a restaurant in the hotel.The new name is Scion which we previously discussed in these threads. They are claiming they wanted a distinction between the luxury brand and the lifestyle brand.
According to Hipmunk, bookings at Trump Hotels plummeted 59 percent during the first half of 2016 and data from Foursquare shows a 17 percent drop in foot traffic at Trump properties since June 2015, when the reality TV star announced his presidential bid.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Dropped my ballot off at a drop box on my way to work yesterday. Got a text confirming it had been received by my county elections department that evening.
I've been looking hard for silver linings in this election, so I was "glad" to learn that my town's mayor (an officially nonpartisan office), has enthusiastically signed on to the Koch-funded campaign against my progressive state house rep.
The mayor's endorsement was a little galling, though, implying that by not supporting the candidate, who is a woman, voters would not be supporting women in general. I was tempted to write her asking snarkily if she was supporting Clinton, Morgan Carroll, Misty Plowright and the other women running here in CO.
posted by audi alteram partem at 4:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
I've been looking hard for silver linings in this election, so I was "glad" to learn that my town's mayor (an officially nonpartisan office), has enthusiastically signed on to the Koch-funded campaign against my progressive state house rep.
The mayor's endorsement was a little galling, though, implying that by not supporting the candidate, who is a woman, voters would not be supporting women in general. I was tempted to write her asking snarkily if she was supporting Clinton, Morgan Carroll, Misty Plowright and the other women running here in CO.
posted by audi alteram partem at 4:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
Atlantic No, Most Black People Don’t Live in Poverty—or Inner Cities
There might have been a time when conflating inner cities and African Americans was appropriate shorthand, but it’s just not accurate anymore. The majority of African Americans are living both above the poverty line and outside of the inner cities, rendering Trump’s comments misleading and factually inaccurate.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
Elizabeth Kneebone, a fellow at the Metropolitan Policy Program at the Brookings Institution, looked at numbers from the 2010 to 2014 American Community Survey and found that 39 percent of African Americans live in the suburbs, 36 percent live in cities, 15 percent live in small metropolitan areas, and 10 percent live in rural communities. That’s a noticeable shift from 2000, when 41 percent of African Americans lived in cities, 33 percent lived in suburbs, 15 percent lived in small metro areas, and 11 percent lived in rural communities.
Received my ballot in the mail yesterday, filled it out last night, and put it in the drop box this morning. Voting in Washington is so civilized.
So, what did you do on I-732?
I ultimately voted no, but at least one person I know voted yes so... they cancel?
Also, fuck Tim Eyman.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 4:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
So, what did you do on I-732?
I ultimately voted no, but at least one person I know voted yes so... they cancel?
Also, fuck Tim Eyman.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 4:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
The new name is Scion which we previously discussed in these threads. They are claiming they wanted a distinction between the luxury brand and the lifestyle brand.
Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant.
posted by ocschwar at 4:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant.
posted by ocschwar at 4:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
By 10:25 Central, Hillary will not only have had the Presidential race called for her, but she will also have been awarded the Prime Ministership of Spain, the Lady Byng Trophy, the title of Human Tornado and the DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight championship belt.
Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [54 favorites]
Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [54 favorites]
@AliVitali I'm told Trump's speech tomorrow in Gettysburg will be a preview of his first 100 days and offer a positive forward vision.
It's silly of me because it's a very real town and not just a battlefield, and tourists from all over come there (including me on many field trips!) so it's not just some untouched, sacred space, but it makes me feel sick that he will be giving a speech there. Thinking of who he is, what he represents, what he's done to this country, how he's spent his life, compared to what happened there and the speech that happened there. He's such a shame on our country, my god.
posted by sallybrown at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
It's silly of me because it's a very real town and not just a battlefield, and tourists from all over come there (including me on many field trips!) so it's not just some untouched, sacred space, but it makes me feel sick that he will be giving a speech there. Thinking of who he is, what he represents, what he's done to this country, how he's spent his life, compared to what happened there and the speech that happened there. He's such a shame on our country, my god.
posted by sallybrown at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
‘I Don’t Speak for Jews’: Jake Tapper’s Interview with Curt Schilling Took a Strange Turn
And Schilling now is saying his decision to run in 2018 "hasn't been finalized yet" because he has to talk to his family.
posted by zachlipton at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
CNN’s Jake Tapper interviewed Curt Schilling today and it was going pretty well until Schilling started asking Tapper some personal questions…Then it got weird, with Tapper tell us he doesn't vote in Presidential elections, Schilling telling Tapper he doesn't understand how Jews can vote for Democrats because they're anti-Israel, and Tapper being like "Well, I don’t speak for Jews." It's weird.
Schilling spoke with Tapper about his plans to consider a run for Senate against Elizabeth Warren in 2018, which he made clear would have to be a family decision.
But then Tapper confronted Schilling on sharing memes in the past that ridiculed trans people and likened Muslims to Nazis. Both of those things got Schilling in hot water with ESPN––the anti-trans meme got him fired––but Schilling said it was unfair to 1) judge him on a meme someone else made that he shared, and 2) to think he was attacking all Muslims and not just the extremists.
And Schilling now is saying his decision to run in 2018 "hasn't been finalized yet" because he has to talk to his family.
posted by zachlipton at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump, in Newtown, mixes up analogies here, calls Syrian refugees the "great white horse" rather than a "Trojan horse" like he usually does:
He's crackin up folks.
posted by Talez at 4:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
He's crackin up folks.
posted by Talez at 4:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
And let's not understate how good Clinton has been in the debates. She's fantastic: smart, informed, calm; and all that in the face of such disgusting behavior.
posted by persona au gratin at 4:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 4:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]
The Republican Party Owns Donald Trump’s Actions on Election Day
Most weeks, New York Magazine writer-at-large Frank Rich speaks with contributor Alex Carp about the biggest stories in politics and culture. Today: Trump’s dangerous rhetoric, the last presidential debate, and the potential future of the GOP.posted by kirkaracha at 4:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
@RosieGray Trump has described his campaign at different points today as "beyond Brexit," then "Brexit Plus," and now "Brexit times five"
Brexit times 5? Five times the anguish and regret? Five times the financial meltdown? Five times the lack of leadership and confusion? Or does he mean it will be 5 times as surprising when he confounds all expectations and wins the Presidency? Because I'm pretty sure even he know longer believes he has a chance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
Brexit times 5? Five times the anguish and regret? Five times the financial meltdown? Five times the lack of leadership and confusion? Or does he mean it will be 5 times as surprising when he confounds all expectations and wins the Presidency? Because I'm pretty sure even he know longer believes he has a chance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
ocschwar: "Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant."
I don't know, the word makes me think "Cheap boxy Toyota", not luxury hotel brand.
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 PM on October 21, 2016 [41 favorites]
I don't know, the word makes me think "Cheap boxy Toyota", not luxury hotel brand.
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 PM on October 21, 2016 [41 favorites]
By 10:25 Central, Hillary will not only have had the Presidential race called for her, but she will also have been awarded the Prime Ministership of Spain, the Lady Byng Trophy, the title of Human Tornado and the DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight championship belt.
Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
I would not be too surprised if she won the Nobel Peace prize-- if they can give it to Obama for not being George Bush then they can award it to her for keeping Trump out of the White House.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
I would not be too surprised if she won the Nobel Peace prize-- if they can give it to Obama for not being George Bush then they can award it to her for keeping Trump out of the White House.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
> "Brexit times 5?"
Well, I literally cried when Brexit won, so I imagine if Trump wins I'll just start spontaneously bleeding from the eyeballs.
posted by kyrademon at 4:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
Well, I literally cried when Brexit won, so I imagine if Trump wins I'll just start spontaneously bleeding from the eyeballs.
posted by kyrademon at 4:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
I just sat down to get started on my phone banking for the night and the site is down. Isitdownorjustme says it's down.
posted by HotToddy at 4:57 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by HotToddy at 4:57 PM on October 21, 2016
Could we just tell Trump that he's getting an American Brexit; the US is withdrawing from the European Union? Would that be enough to make him go away?
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
I just sat down to get started on my phone banking for the night and the site is down. Isitdownorjustme says it's down.
I can get to the site, but it says "Problem accessing phone banks" where it normally lists all the open states. So much for trying to get in some calls pre-Hamildoc.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on October 21, 2016
I can get to the site, but it says "Problem accessing phone banks" where it normally lists all the open states. So much for trying to get in some calls pre-Hamildoc.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on October 21, 2016
He's crackin up folks.
He needs to get down off his high great white horse. Or maybe the thin white duke. Or... stop putting his dukes up... letting the dogs out? I mean... some metaphor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
He needs to get down off his high great white horse. Or maybe the thin white duke. Or... stop putting his dukes up... letting the dogs out? I mean... some metaphor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I like voting at the polling place. It's a civic ritual I find really meaningful. So I'm gonna vote on Election Day.
LA Peeps: Measure M--more rail!
CA Peeps: Prop 55--keep taking money from the rich and giving it to universities!
posted by persona au gratin at 5:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
LA Peeps: Measure M--more rail!
CA Peeps: Prop 55--keep taking money from the rich and giving it to universities!
posted by persona au gratin at 5:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Brexit times 5?
He's going to take the US out of the EU! And make them pay for it!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
He's going to take the US out of the EU! And make them pay for it!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
if only there was a song about messing up horse metaphors. (Katy Perry parody)
posted by Yowser at 5:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 5:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
The next Emmys will include a special one-time category: Best Debate Performance Against Donald Trump in a Presidential General Election.
posted by ckape at 5:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by ckape at 5:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [44 favorites]
My prediction is that, in a weird bit of synchronicity with all the Hamilton thread titles, Trump hatches a crazy scheme to invade Mexico and install himself as emperor after he loses, like crazy post-duel Burr did.
Meme magic.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meme magic.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would not be too surprised if she won the Nobel Peace prize-- if they can give it to Obama for not being George Bush then they can award it to her for keeping Trump out of the White House.
No no no. If the winner gets it for keeping Trump out of the White House, they have to award it to everyone who voted for a candidate other than Trump. And we should all get to go to the ceremony.
posted by sallybrown at 5:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
No no no. If the winner gets it for keeping Trump out of the White House, they have to award it to everyone who voted for a candidate other than Trump. And we should all get to go to the ceremony.
posted by sallybrown at 5:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sometimes reddit is okay:
Let me tell you about what's going to happen on January 20th.posted by Rhaomi at 5:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [88 favorites]
After her win over Donald Trump, the US is about to inaugurate its first female commander in chief. A large crowd gathers outside the Capitol. The crowd is about as big as Obamas, but with fewer black people and more lesbians. Notable absences include Donald Trump, who is busy filming a reality show about his divorce; Louie Gohmert, who is stuck inside a jungle gym; and Ted Cruz, who is stuck inside Mike Lee.
Ruth Bader Ginsberg delivers the oath of office to Mrs. Clinton who swears with her hand on a copy of The Art of the Deal, because that's hilarious. Not 3 seconds after she recites the oath and is officially POTUS, RBG retires on the spot, President Clinton nominates Obama, and before Hillary can let go of the fart she's been holding in the entire ceremony, Barack AND Garland are confirmed by the Dem majority senate. Historians will call it "The Double Tap."
Should be a fun weekend.
In 10 yrs @wikileaks has gotten nothing wrong & no one's been killed bc of the info released.
I guess the fact that we had a diplomatic mission in Libya as a direct result of the Arab spring which was largely due to our docs appearing on Wikileaks doesn't count.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess the fact that we had a diplomatic mission in Libya as a direct result of the Arab spring which was largely due to our docs appearing on Wikileaks doesn't count.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
persona au gratin: "And let's not understate how good Clinton has been in the debates. She's fantastic: smart, informed, calm; and all that in the face of such disgusting behavior."
This is why the emerging GOP meme of, "Well, sure she beat TRUMP. Any competent Republican would have leveled her," pisses me off so much. Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination - I feel pretty good that she could have beat whomever they put up. She has her flaws, but she's run a great race.
The only way to shut them up is re-elect her in '20, I guess.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
This is why the emerging GOP meme of, "Well, sure she beat TRUMP. Any competent Republican would have leveled her," pisses me off so much. Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination - I feel pretty good that she could have beat whomever they put up. She has her flaws, but she's run a great race.
The only way to shut them up is re-elect her in '20, I guess.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
Chrysostom: So, what did you do on I-732?
I looked at a whole bunch of arguments for & against (including the linked MeFi FPP) and eventually wrestled myself into voting yes. That bill is kinda hosed but I figure we gotta do something about climate change and more such bills passing will hopefully get things moving in the right direction.
I linked it in the last election thread, but by and large my thoughts line up with The Stranger's election endorsements. I gotta say a few things in WA aren't totally cut and dried. I-1491, for instance, allows cops, families, housemates, and intimate partners to get court orders to remove guns from people in mental crisis, and that seems like a no-brainer until you consider the argument that the language in the bill paints people with mental health problems with way too broad of a brush. I voted yes on that one, but I didn't feel good about it. A couple of other things left me feeling that way, too, but that's how democracy goes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I looked at a whole bunch of arguments for & against (including the linked MeFi FPP) and eventually wrestled myself into voting yes. That bill is kinda hosed but I figure we gotta do something about climate change and more such bills passing will hopefully get things moving in the right direction.
I linked it in the last election thread, but by and large my thoughts line up with The Stranger's election endorsements. I gotta say a few things in WA aren't totally cut and dried. I-1491, for instance, allows cops, families, housemates, and intimate partners to get court orders to remove guns from people in mental crisis, and that seems like a no-brainer until you consider the argument that the language in the bill paints people with mental health problems with way too broad of a brush. I voted yes on that one, but I didn't feel good about it. A couple of other things left me feeling that way, too, but that's how democracy goes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Based on past performance, it'll just be "Trump BREAKS it" X 5
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:11 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
He needs to get down off his high great white horse. Or maybe the thin white duke. Or... stop putting his dukes up... letting the dogs out? I mean... some metaphor.
He needs to stop being the horse Vladimir Putin rides around on.
posted by XMLicious at 5:12 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination
That's like saying "eighteen of the smartest eggs in the ENTIRE SUPERMARKET."
posted by delfin at 5:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
That's like saying "eighteen of the smartest eggs in the ENTIRE SUPERMARKET."
posted by delfin at 5:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
That's like saying "eighteen of the smartest eggs in the ENTIRE SUPERMARKET."
no, it's not - you have to break eggs to make them scramble
posted by pyramid termite at 5:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
no, it's not - you have to break eggs to make them scramble
posted by pyramid termite at 5:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
He'll never realize that the High Horse he thinks he's on is really a Short Ass.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
The "dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest" was more like the casting choices for a bad Reality Competition show. And you thought Burnett was NOT helping him.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:18 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:18 PM on October 21, 2016
Well, when you're talking about possible GOP candidates, you've pretty much excluded the rocket scientists....
posted by Chrysostom at 5:20 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Chrysostom at 5:20 PM on October 21, 2016
Yeah, they only consider brain surgeons.
posted by jferg at 5:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by jferg at 5:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Credit where it's due: "Scion" as a brand for Trump owned businesses is fucking brilliant.
scion
/ˈsʌɪən/ noun
/ɡrɑːft/ noun
scion
/ˈsʌɪən/ noun
- a young shoot or twig of a plant, especially one cut for grafting or rooting. synonyms: cutting, graft, slip
/ɡrɑːft/ noun
- bribery and other corrupt practices used to secure illicit advantages or gains in politics or business. synonyms: corruption, bribery, bribing, dishonesty, deceit, fraud, fraudulence, subornation, unlawful practices, illegal means, underhand means antonyms: honesty • advantages or gains secured as a result of corrupt practices.
- make money by shady or dishonest means.
> Not to rehash the Russia conversation from the other thread, but bringing up McCarthy is interesting- is Trump basically the McCarthy of our times not just in terms of accusing American citizens and inspiring witch hunts, but by flaming out in the worst of ways after having shaken American politics to their core, causing society to simply shrug, "Well, that was weird" and move on?
Alas, that's not true. McCarthyism didn't end with McCarthy (who was censured in 1954 and died in 1957), it kept going for years, its effects gradually fading as judicial and political support ended but still hurting people. Take the blacklist; as Wikipedia says, "John Henry Faulk won his lawsuit in 1962. With this court decision, the private blacklisters and those who used them were put on notice that they were legally liable for the professional and financial damage they caused. This helped to bring an end to publications such as Counterattack. Like Adrian Scott and Lillian Hellman, however, a number of those on the blacklist remained there for an extended period—Lionel Stander, for instance, could not find work in Hollywood until 1965." And open avowal of truly leftist positions made political life impossible in most of the country for decades; McGovern was called a commie, for god's sake. It's amazing to me that we've finally gotten to the point that Bernie Sanders can be an avowed socialist and not be automatically rejected for it by the national electorate. It takes a long, long time for the ripples to fade.
posted by languagehat at 5:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
Alas, that's not true. McCarthyism didn't end with McCarthy (who was censured in 1954 and died in 1957), it kept going for years, its effects gradually fading as judicial and political support ended but still hurting people. Take the blacklist; as Wikipedia says, "John Henry Faulk won his lawsuit in 1962. With this court decision, the private blacklisters and those who used them were put on notice that they were legally liable for the professional and financial damage they caused. This helped to bring an end to publications such as Counterattack. Like Adrian Scott and Lillian Hellman, however, a number of those on the blacklist remained there for an extended period—Lionel Stander, for instance, could not find work in Hollywood until 1965." And open avowal of truly leftist positions made political life impossible in most of the country for decades; McGovern was called a commie, for god's sake. It's amazing to me that we've finally gotten to the point that Bernie Sanders can be an avowed socialist and not be automatically rejected for it by the national electorate. It takes a long, long time for the ripples to fade.
posted by languagehat at 5:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
Show that you participated this election: I rigged.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:25 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump Is No Freak Accident, and Paul Ryan Is No Solution. It won't end well if Republicans get away with this.
Plato wrote, "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by fools." Mr. Madison, who read Plato and understood the hell out of what he read, famously wrote, "A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both." God knows we've seen the farce. The object now is to avert the tragedy, and the one way to do that is not to wave off the Trump phenomenon as a one-off trick of political nature—a freak May snowstorm that came upon the lovely garden of the Republican intellect. It has been a steady blizzard of nonsense for going on four decades.posted by homunculus at 5:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [47 favorites]
...
If Paul Ryan is going to be the person who puts the party back together, then the party's platform is going to be privatizing Social Security, voucherizing Medicare, a further investment in the ridiculous notion of supply-side economics, the deregulation on the federal level of just about everything from the stock market to canned tuna, the sell-off and pillage of public lands, the revival of block-grants so that the governors and state legislatures can have a feeding frenzy on the federal tab, and the continued refusal to do anything about the climate crisis.
But Paul Ryan has never advised anyone to grab someone by the pussy, so that makes him Pericles, I guess.
Vanity Fair: What the Third Debate Felt Like
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Random pantsuit trivia: up to 1993 the dress code of the US Senate forbade women from wearing pants onto the senate floor; it was only skirts and dresses and pantyhose for senators and senate staffers. There was a coordinated protest by Senators Carol Moseley Braun and Barbara Mikulski that led to a change in the rules that allowed women to wear pants in the senate.
posted by peeedro at 5:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [120 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 5:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [120 favorites]
David Duke qualifies for Louisiana Senate debate
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke has qualified for a televised debate in Louisiana's Senate race after a new poll showed him drawing 5 percent of the vote.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Duke, a white supremacist, announced he was running late this summer, saying GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump had inspired him and drawn more followers to his cause. Other Republicans in the state have disavowed him and the Republican National Committee and Louisiana GOP explored booting him out of the party.[...]
Louisiana hold its all-party primary on Election Day. A candidate can win the seat with a majority of the vote, but the Senate seat looks almost certain to go to a Dec. 10 runoff between the two top vote-getters that day. GOP State Treasurer John Kennedy led the poll with 24 percent of the vote, followed by Democratic Public Service Commissioner Foster Campbell with 19 percent and Democratic attorney Caroline Fayard with 12 percent. Republican congressmen Charles Boustany and John Fleming earned 12 and 11 percent of the vote, respectively.
Duke has had little presence on the campaign trail and has raised little money so far. He previously served as a state representative in the late 1980s and lost the 1991 gubernatorial election.
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke has qualified for a televised debate in Louisiana's Senate race after a new poll showed him drawing 5 percent of the vote.
If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.
posted by dis_integration at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.
posted by dis_integration at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
After her win over Donald Trump, the US is about to inaugurate its first female commander in chief.
No. The president is "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." I really dislike the use of title being used in other contexts because it's symbolic of the increased militarization of American society.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [33 favorites]
Yeah, I'm subscribed to three election related podcasts right now.
Six here. I rage run to them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Six here. I rage run to them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Plato wrote, "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by fools."
(it would make a great Election Day status update, but no, Plato did not write that)
posted by sallybrown at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
(it would make a great Election Day status update, but no, Plato did not write that)
posted by sallybrown at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.
I can say some hateful things about David Duke in German if that helps. Er ist ein riesiges Arschloch, for instance.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States."
Or just Commander in Chief, as General Washington was known. It's an easy shorthand. It's not confused for Dictator or Imperator.
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Or just Commander in Chief, as General Washington was known. It's an easy shorthand. It's not confused for Dictator or Imperator.
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
If there was ever a case for why we needed German-style hate-speech legislation, this is it.
Nah. Very little of Duke's rhetoric would cross that line. Dogwhistles are more comfortable.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Nah. Very little of Duke's rhetoric would cross that line. Dogwhistles are more comfortable.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Rigged, this mirror is rigged. Earth to Donald.
posted by Oyéah at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Former Ku Klux Klan leader and Assange fanboy David Duke has qualified for a televised debate
FTFY.
posted by effbot at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
FTFY.
posted by effbot at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump translation: Pennsylvania has a problem with bridge infastructure. Many of them are structurally deficient. Some are so bad that it's scary to drive over them. So bad that you'd feel safer and more relaxed swimming instead of driving on them. My plan is to fix these bridges.
Oh stewardess? I speak jive.
posted by PlusDistance at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh stewardess? I speak jive.
posted by PlusDistance at 5:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
If the LA Senate debate is going to have every candidate polling over 5%, it doesn't need David Duke to be a 💩💩💩💩💩show.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, the Stormborn, the Unburnt, Commander of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Queen of Meereen...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [34 favorites]
Or just Commander in Chief, as General Washington was known. It's an easy shorthand. It's not confused for Dictator or Imperator.
Right, but the president is Commander in Chief of the military, not the country.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is why the emerging GOP meme of, "Well, sure she beat TRUMP. Any competent Republican would have leveled her," pisses me off so much. Setting aside the fact that near a dozen and a half of the GOP's best and brightest couldn't even get past Trump to the nomination - I feel pretty good that she could have beat whomever they put up. She has her flaws, but she's run a great race.
Good morning, the competent Republican in military intelligence is clearly confused, saying it is an open secret that our only choice for this weirdly normal election is the unpopular celebrity, but he is a big baby and bankrupt millionaire with consistent discrepancies whose support is growing smaller and turning pretty ugly. It is a real fantasy that future history will celebrate quitely the happy demise of our loyal opposition.
Jumbo shrimp.
posted by ckape at 6:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Good morning, the competent Republican in military intelligence is clearly confused, saying it is an open secret that our only choice for this weirdly normal election is the unpopular celebrity, but he is a big baby and bankrupt millionaire with consistent discrepancies whose support is growing smaller and turning pretty ugly. It is a real fantasy that future history will celebrate quitely the happy demise of our loyal opposition.
Jumbo shrimp.
posted by ckape at 6:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Wikileaks and Project Veritas bullshit are going to be giving us all heartburn for the next few weeks. Without debate meltdowns I worry Trump might pop back up.
posted by humanfont at 6:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 6:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
TERRY TATE MAKIN AMERICA GREAT
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
Really the only way sensible to resolve this "commander in chief" problem is to abolish the office of the Presidency altogether and move to something more like the Westminster system, wherein the executive cabinet is part of the legislature and wherein the roles of head of state and head of government (and, for that matter, head of military) are clearly separated.
Maybe the only reason we're saddled with the institution of the Presidency instead of a more modern system is because a certain a-l-e-x-a-n-d-e-r was basically a monarchist deep down.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Maybe the only reason we're saddled with the institution of the Presidency instead of a more modern system is because a certain a-l-e-x-a-n-d-e-r was basically a monarchist deep down.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:04 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States
...Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor, Fellow of the Royal Society, Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Drapers, Duke of Normandy, Lord of Mann...
posted by Chrysostom at 6:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
...Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor, Fellow of the Royal Society, Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Drapers, Duke of Normandy, Lord of Mann...
posted by Chrysostom at 6:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hey, if you're disappointed that the majority party of one house of the national legislature doesn't have absolute power, you should be blaming Madison, what with his "checks" and "balances" and "independent branches of government".
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:08 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Because the Trump campaign will either be McCarthy, where millions of Americans leave the bad dream, or he'll be Nixon, where his actions and character will poison the political atmosphere for decades. This might be a simplistic dichotomy so I'm open to suggestions on revising this model.
posted by Apocryphon
I have observed my mothers political involvement over 50 years. She's 97 now, always making a vow to stay alive for the next election cycle. She has always been far-right and active in pro-life movement pre-Roe v. Wade. I grew up in a house of John Birch texts, National Review, and Phyllis Schlafley newletters. One of my early memories was looking at a portrait of Harry Truman and thinklng, "why is this man so evil" The names and idealogues have changed. Her position and beliefs have never evolved. I see them having always been rooted in 1948 and around the time she began having children. The language has changed. The root belief remains the same.
With that in mind I've never connected Trump to Nixon. Only to McCarthy. His power was gained by a traditional political process and structure that, at it's worse, condones obsufcation for political gain and survival. Both played zero-sum games and both, to me, seem to have had/have a weird-ass death wish. Nixon, on the other hand was a junkyard dog. He had the presence to rebuild his ground game after his loss for CA Governorship in 1962. Many political historian still consider this one of the great political comebacks.
My mom had 10 kids. I have a around 25 nieces and nephews and now they are having children. I bet that maybe 1 or 2 might be voting for Clinton. I see their political viewpoints coming from a generational bias. Thus their beliefs, while seemingly modern for them, are McCarthy era based
I was once pickpocketed. I could feel the man sliding the twenty out of my pocket at a crowded basketball game. I also felt like I had been paralyzed by the subtlety of the lifters movement and how he entered my space. Then he was gone. What just happened? This didn't just happen? I knew it did. I did not want to tell anyone what had happened out of embarrassment. So I lost the twenty and reveled in the experience of what it was like to feel myself being stunned without being touched and made temporarily helpless and disbelieving of a process as it was actually happening.
posted by goalyeehah at 6:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon
I have observed my mothers political involvement over 50 years. She's 97 now, always making a vow to stay alive for the next election cycle. She has always been far-right and active in pro-life movement pre-Roe v. Wade. I grew up in a house of John Birch texts, National Review, and Phyllis Schlafley newletters. One of my early memories was looking at a portrait of Harry Truman and thinklng, "why is this man so evil" The names and idealogues have changed. Her position and beliefs have never evolved. I see them having always been rooted in 1948 and around the time she began having children. The language has changed. The root belief remains the same.
With that in mind I've never connected Trump to Nixon. Only to McCarthy. His power was gained by a traditional political process and structure that, at it's worse, condones obsufcation for political gain and survival. Both played zero-sum games and both, to me, seem to have had/have a weird-ass death wish. Nixon, on the other hand was a junkyard dog. He had the presence to rebuild his ground game after his loss for CA Governorship in 1962. Many political historian still consider this one of the great political comebacks.
My mom had 10 kids. I have a around 25 nieces and nephews and now they are having children. I bet that maybe 1 or 2 might be voting for Clinton. I see their political viewpoints coming from a generational bias. Thus their beliefs, while seemingly modern for them, are McCarthy era based
I was once pickpocketed. I could feel the man sliding the twenty out of my pocket at a crowded basketball game. I also felt like I had been paralyzed by the subtlety of the lifters movement and how he entered my space. Then he was gone. What just happened? This didn't just happen? I knew it did. I did not want to tell anyone what had happened out of embarrassment. So I lost the twenty and reveled in the experience of what it was like to feel myself being stunned without being touched and made temporarily helpless and disbelieving of a process as it was actually happening.
posted by goalyeehah at 6:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [43 favorites]
Wikileaks and Project Veritas bullshit are going to be giving us all heartburn for the next few weeks. Without debate meltdowns I worry Trump might pop back up.
Trump might gain back a few points in the polls over the next 17 days, but there's almost 0.0 chance of him regaining enough lost ground to win this. And we've still got plenty of time for another video-bomb to drop.
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump might gain back a few points in the polls over the next 17 days, but there's almost 0.0 chance of him regaining enough lost ground to win this. And we've still got plenty of time for another video-bomb to drop.
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
My election night plans: a massive all-girl street party in front of the White House, which Obama wisely lights up pink. I feel like that could happen?
I had a dream that I dressed up as a suffragette for the inauguration. I'm now researching ginormous hats.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
I had a dream that I dressed up as a suffragette for the inauguration. I'm now researching ginormous hats.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.
posted by rebent at 6:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by rebent at 6:23 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well this is terrifying: "If Today’s Internet Outage/Hacking Was a Dry Run for Election Day, Things Could Get Very Bad"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Not sure if this has been published yet but Time has a terrific selection of portraits of Clinton over the last twenty-three years. The last one is just a stunner.
posted by octothorpe at 6:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
The next Emmys will include a special one-time category: Best Debate Performance Against Donald Trump in a Presidential General Election.
And the Emmy goes to... Donald J. Trump!
posted by tonycpsu at 6:32 PM on October 21, 2016 [54 favorites]
And the Emmy goes to... Donald J. Trump!
posted by tonycpsu at 6:32 PM on October 21, 2016 [54 favorites]
So, according to Rachel Maddow, Donald Trump's best joke at the Al Smith dinner, the one about plagiarism, was plagiarized. She showed a cartoon from over the summer that was in a paper popular on the Hill.
posted by xyzzy at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
“I want to ask Mr. Trump, would my son have a place in your America?” Captain Khan, new Clinton campaign ad.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Martin Schoeller, photographer, who shot Clinton in Washington for The New Yorker in 2011: “When I photographed Hillary Clinton, she was a little nervous. I said, ‘You will not look as bad as the Chuck Close portrait,’ and she laughed and trusted me. In this photograph, I think she looks authentic and unposed.”
I liked the Chuck Close one, I think because it felt natural. It's definitely posed, but somehow in a different way to the others. That said, she also looks a bit like Emma Thompson in it, and I don't normally think they look alike. That said, I'm sometimes astonishingly bad at knowing what people look like.
posted by hoyland at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
I liked the Chuck Close one, I think because it felt natural. It's definitely posed, but somehow in a different way to the others. That said, she also looks a bit like Emma Thompson in it, and I don't normally think they look alike. That said, I'm sometimes astonishingly bad at knowing what people look like.
posted by hoyland at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Really the only way sensible to resolve this "commander in chief" problem is to abolish the office of the Presidency altogether and move to something more like the Westminster system, wherein the executive cabinet is part of the legislature and wherein the roles of head of state and head of government (and, for that matter, head of military) are clearly separated.
Speaking from a country where we currently have an unelected Prime Minister who intends to hold no general election until 2020, this is a terrible idea.
What you get under the Westminster system is at best a leader who was voted for by the people of one borough, plus the members of their Parliamentary party. May didn't even have to stand for a leadership contest-- she was appointed after all the other candidates imploded.
At least in the US, the entire country gets to participate in choosing the President.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
Speaking from a country where we currently have an unelected Prime Minister who intends to hold no general election until 2020, this is a terrible idea.
What you get under the Westminster system is at best a leader who was voted for by the people of one borough, plus the members of their Parliamentary party. May didn't even have to stand for a leadership contest-- she was appointed after all the other candidates imploded.
At least in the US, the entire country gets to participate in choosing the President.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
once you adjust for depreciation, the U.S. makes no net investment in public infrastructure.
Once you reach salvage value, depreciation becomes zero. Checkmate, economists!
posted by ctmf at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Once you reach salvage value, depreciation becomes zero. Checkmate, economists!
posted by ctmf at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.
I disagree. Why are you pretty confident?
posted by cashman at 6:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I disagree. Why are you pretty confident?
posted by cashman at 6:44 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
What's the advantage to separating the head of state and head of government? Running through (an admittedly short list of) countries in my head, it seems like, if you do, one ends up with power and the other one ends up fairly inconsequential, aside from the occasional scandal.
(It does open up silly scenarios like whether you could try Tony Blair for war crimes without trying the Queen. So that's amusing, I suppose.)
posted by hoyland at 6:46 PM on October 21, 2016
(It does open up silly scenarios like whether you could try Tony Blair for war crimes without trying the Queen. So that's amusing, I suppose.)
posted by hoyland at 6:46 PM on October 21, 2016
That said, she also looks a bit like Emma Thompson in it, and I don't normally think they look alike
Well, Emma Thompson did basically play her in the movie version of Primary Colors.
posted by Sara C. at 6:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well, Emma Thompson did basically play her in the movie version of Primary Colors.
posted by Sara C. at 6:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
From a billion comments earlier:
His narcissism made him think he could become president despite his complete lack of experience and qualifications for the job, and now he's going to lose what he had.
He should have been Governor of Texas first, as that would have guaranteed him a two term presidency.
posted by zippy at 6:51 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
His narcissism made him think he could become president despite his complete lack of experience and qualifications for the job, and now he's going to lose what he had.
He should have been Governor of Texas first, as that would have guaranteed him a two term presidency.
posted by zippy at 6:51 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Another video featuring Donald Trump talking about how his attraction to hot women 17-18 year olds especially is his alcoholism.
posted by humanfont at 6:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 6:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.
Don't get blood on your pantsuit when you rip his heart out and hold it beating before his eyes, Hillary
posted by XMLicious at 6:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
She has a special pantsuit exactly the color of blood just for that occasion.
posted by emjaybee at 6:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 6:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [39 favorites]
Right, but the president is Commander in Chief of the military, not the country.
So, the country having a Commander in Chief of the military, and the country being our country, the President can be our Commander in Chief (of the military). This is not the same thing as Commander in Chief of us.
I mean, I get your point, but being mad about that shorthand title is being as willfully nitpicky about language as I'm being now with yours. I don't think anyone is literally advocating the President as a military-style dictator by saying that.
posted by ctmf at 7:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
So, the country having a Commander in Chief of the military, and the country being our country, the President can be our Commander in Chief (of the military). This is not the same thing as Commander in Chief of us.
I mean, I get your point, but being mad about that shorthand title is being as willfully nitpicky about language as I'm being now with yours. I don't think anyone is literally advocating the President as a military-style dictator by saying that.
posted by ctmf at 7:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
shhhhh don't mind that sound, it's just me intoning FINISH HIM with all the guttural ceaseless rage of all of us nasty women
posted by yasaman at 7:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [49 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 7:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [49 favorites]
Those voting machines are plugged into the wall. They operate independently of the web. They make a verifiable paper printout of every vote that goes in the machine. Then they print a results ticket for each machine. The machines are returned to the county clerks, and then tallied. I am not sure the machines are turned on again after the voting. I think the paper is where the tally is done. I ran a busy polling place for years. It was very tightly controlled, with people waiting in the parking lot for us to arrive, with phone calls in between the polling place and the clerks office. So the web isn't really where the vote happens.
posted by Oyéah at 7:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 7:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Donald Trump just hugged the American flag as people chanted "drain the swamp" and the crowd went wild
posted by porn in the woods at 7:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 7:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Another video featuring Donald Trump talking about how his attraction to hot women 17-18 year olds especially is his alcoholism.
*shudder* God, he sounds like Andy Daly as Don DiMello. "I hire the beautiful girls and I always get a little something for daddy."
posted by glhaynes at 7:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
*shudder* God, he sounds like Andy Daly as Don DiMello. "I hire the beautiful girls and I always get a little something for daddy."
posted by glhaynes at 7:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Fucking flag groper. I'm not the world's most symbolically-patriotic guy, but every time he pulls that shit, I want him off my flag.
posted by glhaynes at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by glhaynes at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
"you misspelled groped. He groped the American flag."@twitter
posted by Oyéah at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Today I took off Nov. 8 & 9. Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 7:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
I took off the 7th so I can spend all day canvassing so I am exhausted by the end of the day and I can maybe sleep that night.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
HOLLLLLLLLLAAAAA, I get Election Day every year and took the day after- one day for worrying and one day for the hangover
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
So early voting In Texas starts Monday, and I'm champing at the bit to get down there but I've been working so much the last six weeks I have no idea what is even going on in the local school board/city council elections & I've got to cool my jets enough to get an idea of what all is important there ( we have a 750 million transportation bond package for instance that I'm ambivalent about, but may be misinformed) before I go racing down to the first polling place I can find to cast what feels like 2 great favors wrapped in one -- a historic vote for a very worthy and capable woman, and a chance to repudiate the most vile candidate I've witnessed these 50-odd years, and they've been odd.
I don't see Texas as a whole turning blue, but am really looking forward to the county by county map so I can compare/contrast it with 2012, which had all the urban centers & the Rio Grande valley all lit up pretty blue. Very excited to see how that blue has radiated out in the last 4 years.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
I don't see Texas as a whole turning blue, but am really looking forward to the county by county map so I can compare/contrast it with 2012, which had all the urban centers & the Rio Grande valley all lit up pretty blue. Very excited to see how that blue has radiated out in the last 4 years.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
I wanted Hillary to slap Trump silly but thinking back, I appreciate more and more how "together" Hillary was and how well she paced herself in those debates. First of all, she's under immense pressure. She was put into the position of being the savior of humanity - and I'm not joking about that - facing off against a conniving megalomaniac who's aligned himself with the very darkest impulses of human nature and who seeks to rule the free world. Second, she's a woman - so to appease the "undecideds" and the wishy-washy component of her own party, she has to better him without any showing any hint of guile herself. Lastly, he's such a goddamn loon that it's not a proper fight; more like battling an ostrich; a dangerous animal that can rip your stomach out but is difficult to fight without looking awkward yourself, and if you beat it too bad, you risk engendering sympathy for it.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
Michael Moore being interviewed on MSNBC called Trump the "human Molotov cocktail" of the ex-middle-class.
posted by XMLicious at 7:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 7:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Today I took off Nov. 8 & 9. Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?
Yup. They're the Hillarydays.
posted by petebest at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Yup. They're the Hillarydays.
posted by petebest at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
is Trump basically the McCarthy of our times
From the Wikipedia page on the film Good Night and Good Luck:
ETA: [currently fake]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [71 favorites]
From the Wikipedia page on the film Good Night and Good Luck:
One complaint about the film among test audiences was their belief that the actor playing McCarthy was too over the top, not realizing that the film used actual archive footage of McCarthy himself.Let us ponder for a moment the viewers in 2065 watching the acclaimed holomicro story of the 2016 election, dismissing this invented 'Trump' character as an absurd and clumsy fiction. "First of all, look at the terrible rendering of his hair! Even in 2016 they could do better than that."
ETA: [currently fake]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [71 favorites]
My husband and I have seen the best yard sign yet in our corner of Cincinnati, at a house around the corner:
"TACO TRUCKS, 2016"
posted by mostly vowels at 7:33 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
"TACO TRUCKS, 2016"
posted by mostly vowels at 7:33 PM on October 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
Donald J. Trump has done one good thing. He has galvanized a conflicted and diverse community. For years, activists and politicians have struggled to get Latinos to vote and show their power. But not until Mr. Trump’s racist rhetoric shone a light on anti-Latino sentiment did we feel the need to make our voices heard on the issues that matter to us: from proper funding for our schools, better infrastructure in our communities and financial aid, to health care that doesn’t consider poverty a pre-existing condition.
There are around 56 million of us. We are the largest ethnic minority in the United States, at almost 18 percent of the country’s population. And yet Latino students drop out of high school at a higher rate than members of any other minority. We are victims of neglect, discrimination and ignorance. We have grown up amid an entrenched disrespect for Latin culture, and we have often internalized that disrespect.
...
Almost every immigrant is just here to make a better life for himself.
That can be hard to do when the states where many immigrants live — Texas and Arizona in particular — gerrymander Latino communities out of political power and limit funding to their neighborhoods. Latinos aren’t uniformly liberal; some are conservative because of their religious beliefs or fiscal views. And yet if all of the eligible Latinos voted, a number of states would turn from red to blue.
We need a Latino Spring in this country. We need to demand power and equal opportunity.
Great NYT op-ed by John Leguizamo.
posted by joedan at 7:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [62 favorites]
There are around 56 million of us. We are the largest ethnic minority in the United States, at almost 18 percent of the country’s population. And yet Latino students drop out of high school at a higher rate than members of any other minority. We are victims of neglect, discrimination and ignorance. We have grown up amid an entrenched disrespect for Latin culture, and we have often internalized that disrespect.
...
Almost every immigrant is just here to make a better life for himself.
That can be hard to do when the states where many immigrants live — Texas and Arizona in particular — gerrymander Latino communities out of political power and limit funding to their neighborhoods. Latinos aren’t uniformly liberal; some are conservative because of their religious beliefs or fiscal views. And yet if all of the eligible Latinos voted, a number of states would turn from red to blue.
We need a Latino Spring in this country. We need to demand power and equal opportunity.
Great NYT op-ed by John Leguizamo.
posted by joedan at 7:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [62 favorites]
Today I took off Nov. 8 & 9. Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?
And the 7th too, because who am I kidding? No way am I getting any work done that day.
posted by invincible summer at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
And the 7th too, because who am I kidding? No way am I getting any work done that day.
posted by invincible summer at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Show of hands: anyone else home either/both days?
I thought about becoming a pollworker this year, but there's an unavoidable work committment.
Although -
Said commitment is kind of being the "stage manager" for new-employee orientations where I work. And we usually have a guest speaker at these things - someone kinda high-up to come and talk about how their career went, what their department does, that kinda thing. When I reached out to someone to be our speaker this time, he graciously agreed. But then he looked at his calendar and remarked, "oh. That's Election Day."
"Ah, I didnt' know that!" I said.
He nodded, then looked at me with a bit of a twinkle in his eye. "I think I'll start by asking everyone if they voted yet," he said, grinning, "and if they haven't, I'll take everyone to do that instead."
I should probably explain that one of the things my workplace does is work with refugees who are resettling in the US, and so we are all watching this election VERY closely
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
I thought about becoming a pollworker this year, but there's an unavoidable work committment.
Although -
Said commitment is kind of being the "stage manager" for new-employee orientations where I work. And we usually have a guest speaker at these things - someone kinda high-up to come and talk about how their career went, what their department does, that kinda thing. When I reached out to someone to be our speaker this time, he graciously agreed. But then he looked at his calendar and remarked, "oh. That's Election Day."
"Ah, I didnt' know that!" I said.
He nodded, then looked at me with a bit of a twinkle in his eye. "I think I'll start by asking everyone if they voted yet," he said, grinning, "and if they haven't, I'll take everyone to do that instead."
I should probably explain that one of the things my workplace does is work with refugees who are resettling in the US, and so we are all watching this election VERY closely
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [26 favorites]
> What's the advantage to separating the head of state and head of government? Running through (an admittedly short list of) countries in my head, it seems like, if you do, one ends up with power and the other one ends up fairly inconsequential
The chief advantage of separating the two is that the head of state sort of acts as a sponge to collect and neutralize excess patriotism among the population. Instead of having a situation where patriots feel emboldened to denounce opposition of the President (as both head of state and head of government) as being unpatriotic, everyone gets together and agrees that all the patriotism should be directed at the head of state, who has no real power, thereby letting people say whatever they want about the head of government and their policies without running the risk of seeming unpatriotic.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
The chief advantage of separating the two is that the head of state sort of acts as a sponge to collect and neutralize excess patriotism among the population. Instead of having a situation where patriots feel emboldened to denounce opposition of the President (as both head of state and head of government) as being unpatriotic, everyone gets together and agrees that all the patriotism should be directed at the head of state, who has no real power, thereby letting people say whatever they want about the head of government and their policies without running the risk of seeming unpatriotic.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
Wow, Rubio and Murphy are within the margin of error and the DNC pulled his funding?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???
posted by xyzzy at 7:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 7:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Internal polling, perhaps, xyzzy?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:52 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Those portraits of Clinton are great--I really like the ones from Mary Ellen Mark and Andrew Eccles.
"The Statue Delivery." I don't think I can call it anything else again.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:53 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
"The Statue Delivery." I don't think I can call it anything else again.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:53 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow, Rubio and Murphy are within the margin of error and the DNC pulled his funding?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???
Because he hasn't been able to move in on Rubio's 4 point lead at all for two months while Trump has been self-destructing. Every other D Senate candidate with a chance has been pushing hard and has pulled ahead. Kander can get it over the line, McGinty can get it over the line, Hassan has finally started to pull ahead of the otherwise popular Kelly Ayotte, Masto will get it over the line with help, and Ross is ridiculously close to turning NC.
There are way more important places to put money than a ho-hum candidate who literally can't move the needle at all.
posted by Talez at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Because he hasn't been able to move in on Rubio's 4 point lead at all for two months while Trump has been self-destructing. Every other D Senate candidate with a chance has been pushing hard and has pulled ahead. Kander can get it over the line, McGinty can get it over the line, Hassan has finally started to pull ahead of the otherwise popular Kelly Ayotte, Masto will get it over the line with help, and Ross is ridiculously close to turning NC.
There are way more important places to put money than a ho-hum candidate who literally can't move the needle at all.
posted by Talez at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Don't get blood on your pantsuit when you rip his heart out and hold it beating before his eyes, Hillary
I bet I'm not the only person that sees clips of that last debate and keeps hearing a deep gravelly voice growl out: "Finish him!"
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I bet I'm not the only person that sees clips of that last debate and keeps hearing a deep gravelly voice growl out: "Finish him!"
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Those voting machines are plugged into the wall. They operate independently of the web.
If this is in reference to the link Potomac Avenue posted up-thread, that post was not about voting machines. It was about how a similar attack to the one today could throw the following things off-kilter. The list from the link:
1. Emails, messages, and telephone calls (over VOIP, at least) to and from election officials and volunteers dealing with problems at polling places that inevitably pop up (ballot problems, polling place problems)
2. Voters obtaining correct information on where and when to vote, and polling place problems
3. Accurate journalistic reports of voting, vote totals, problems at the polls
4. Law enforcement activities that may be necessary if there are acts of voter intimidation or other problems
5. Lots of everyday other features of daily life, from electricity, to traffic control, to emergency services, and to the rest of what is connected to the internet grid
2 and 3 easily seem the most likely. I had to research lots of random things today from various local news outlets across the US, and many local news websites were down (including, ahem, Cleveland.com). As a swing state voter, I can easily see this being a huge issue and a potential headache.
Which is why early voting is all the more important!
posted by mostly vowels at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
If this is in reference to the link Potomac Avenue posted up-thread, that post was not about voting machines. It was about how a similar attack to the one today could throw the following things off-kilter. The list from the link:
1. Emails, messages, and telephone calls (over VOIP, at least) to and from election officials and volunteers dealing with problems at polling places that inevitably pop up (ballot problems, polling place problems)
2. Voters obtaining correct information on where and when to vote, and polling place problems
3. Accurate journalistic reports of voting, vote totals, problems at the polls
4. Law enforcement activities that may be necessary if there are acts of voter intimidation or other problems
5. Lots of everyday other features of daily life, from electricity, to traffic control, to emergency services, and to the rest of what is connected to the internet grid
2 and 3 easily seem the most likely. I had to research lots of random things today from various local news outlets across the US, and many local news websites were down (including, ahem, Cleveland.com). As a swing state voter, I can easily see this being a huge issue and a potential headache.
Which is why early voting is all the more important!
posted by mostly vowels at 7:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [15 favorites]
Shoulda kept reading. Yasaman beat me to it.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:55 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:55 PM on October 21, 2016
So, according to Rachel Maddow, Donald Trump's best joke at the Al Smith dinner, the one about plagiarism, was plagiarized. She showed a cartoon from over the summer that was in a paper popular on the Hill.
Here's the clip.
In this case, I'd say that it's possible that it was written independently.
posted by zachlipton at 7:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Here's the clip.
In this case, I'd say that it's possible that it was written independently.
posted by zachlipton at 7:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Donald Trump just hugged the American flag as people chanted "drain the swamp" and the crowd went wild
Forget it, Donald, America's just not that into you.
posted by emjaybee at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Forget it, Donald, America's just not that into you.
posted by emjaybee at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
She has a special pantsuit exactly the color of blood just for that occasion.
Yes, but does Trump own a brown suit?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
Yes, but does Trump own a brown suit?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:01 PM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
I might be a little over invested in seeing Rubio get spanked. My parents will be first time FL voters this year and I CANNOT WAIT for them to get their NY liberal butts to the polls and spray blue all over those ballots.
posted by xyzzy at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, I can't take the day off, as I return on Saturday from two weeks of travel and meetings (hey, Boston!), but I'll probably have MeFi open all day. And I'll likely go home early. And I have every intention of wearing my Nasty Women Vote hoodie that I bought for the occasion!
posted by Sophie1 at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Sophie1 at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2016
Susan Chira writes in the NYT: Thank You, Donald Trump
Donald J. Trump could well go down in history as a feminist hero.posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]
For decades, feminists have tried to stir outrage about how women are routinely groped, belittled, and weight-shamed. Yet Mr. Trump’s words and boasts have shown millions of voters, including people who believe feminism is a dirty word, what women endure every day.
This was supposed to be an election where Hillary Clinton had to convince voters that a woman had the fitness and temperament to be president.
Yet instead of worrying whether a woman is too emotional, impulsive and unqualified for high office, voters have been weighing whether that’s true of the man running to be president.
So, according to Rachel Maddow, Donald Trump's best joke at the Al Smith dinner, the one about plagiarism, was plagiarized. She showed a cartoon from over the summer that was in a paper popular on the Hill.
Wait, so a joke about plagiarism was plagiarized? This election gets more meta by the hour...
posted by mochapickle at 8:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Wait, so a joke about plagiarism was plagiarized? This election gets more meta by the hour...
posted by mochapickle at 8:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Susan Chira writes in the NYT: Thank You, Donald Trump
I'm not super duper fond of the "thank a piggish man for a woman's success" framing here, but I figured it's worth sharing.
posted by zachlipton at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm not super duper fond of the "thank a piggish man for a woman's success" framing here, but I figured it's worth sharing.
posted by zachlipton at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
David Malki subscribed to every candidate's mailing list back in February. He's crunched the numbers and gives a lot of examples.
I had no idea that Infowars sold its own brand of male enhancement pills, but it makes perfect sense.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
I had no idea that Infowars sold its own brand of male enhancement pills, but it makes perfect sense.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [21 favorites]
You could say Trump labeoufed it.
posted by Yowser at 8:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 8:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump, in Newtown, mixes up analogies here, calls Syrian refugees the "great white horse" rather than a "Trojan horse" like he usually does
Yes, he is cracking up, or rather, the cracks are really starting to show: "Madame President when you're nasty" really struck home with this one
Makes me regret a bit less that she didn't shoot right back in #2 with "YOU, sir, are NO gentleman!"
/inMyDreams
posted by goinWhereTheClimateSuitsMyClothes at 8:06 PM on October 21, 2016
Yes, he is cracking up, or rather, the cracks are really starting to show: "Madame President when you're nasty" really struck home with this one
Makes me regret a bit less that she didn't shoot right back in #2 with "YOU, sir, are NO gentleman!"
/inMyDreams
posted by goinWhereTheClimateSuitsMyClothes at 8:06 PM on October 21, 2016
LA Times: "Indiana State Police chief reports cases of voter fraud"
Indiana’s top cop suggested Friday that investigators had uncovered many instances of voter fraud in the state, an allegation that adds fuel to a fiery debate over whether elections are “rigged” and subject to abuse.posted by Celsius1414 at 8:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Indiana State Police Supt. Douglas Carter said in a local TV interview that Gov. Mike Pence “absolutely did not misspeak” this week when he warned supporters of potential voter fraud during a campaign stop in Nevada. Carter said he believed there was voter fraud in “every state,” including Indiana.
Carter refused to provide details about how many instances of voter fraud police have found, or the exact nature of the fraud — whether investigators found, for example, cases of people registering to vote multiple times or whether those ineligible to vote tried to register.
>Carter refused to provide details about how many instances of voter fraud police have found, or the exact nature of the fraud
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [61 favorites]
My first meme ever: http://i.imgur.com/mXyrSLO.jpg
posted by goinWhereTheClimateSuitsMyClothes at 8:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by goinWhereTheClimateSuitsMyClothes at 8:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
I am pretty confident that trump's tax returns will drop about a week before the election.
I disagree. Why are you pretty confident?
posted by cashman at 9:44 PM on October 21 [1 favorite +] [!]
I think the impact of leaking such a powerful bit of information will entice someone, somewhere in the chain to let them slip. It's a scandal that everyone knows exists, but because it hasn't been revealed, we can't actually act on. Like when police misconduct forces prosecutors to not use certain bits of evidence. I think everyone in america *knows* trump's taxes are filthy. But until it's proven...
posted by rebent at 8:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I disagree. Why are you pretty confident?
posted by cashman at 9:44 PM on October 21 [1 favorite +] [!]
I think the impact of leaking such a powerful bit of information will entice someone, somewhere in the chain to let them slip. It's a scandal that everyone knows exists, but because it hasn't been revealed, we can't actually act on. Like when police misconduct forces prosecutors to not use certain bits of evidence. I think everyone in america *knows* trump's taxes are filthy. But until it's proven...
posted by rebent at 8:15 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Every high ranking Republican official knows there's voter fraud going on... because they're the ones doing it. After the "Chicago Problem" in 1960, the GOP pledged NEVER to be out-frauded by anybody in any election.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:16 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Donald J. Trump could well go down in history as a feminist hero.
I think it will more along the lines of, "if you can't be a good example, at least you can serve as a horrible warning."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
I think it will more along the lines of, "if you can't be a good example, at least you can serve as a horrible warning."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
A little late, but:
Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
I bought a pair a shoes from a drug dealer once. I don't know what he laced them with, but I was tripping all day.
posted by twirlypen at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [95 favorites]
Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
I bought a pair a shoes from a drug dealer once. I don't know what he laced them with, but I was tripping all day.
posted by twirlypen at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2016 [95 favorites]
HOT DAMN my ballot just arrived
I am going to vote for I-732 because climate change is already here and I don't trust the 'alliance' to get a bill together by 2018, if they couldn't get something together for 2016. I hope that we can use the momentum to get better things passed in the future. And I'm stoked to vote for Pramila Jayapal to get more leftist women into Congress.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
I am going to vote for I-732 because climate change is already here and I don't trust the 'alliance' to get a bill together by 2018, if they couldn't get something together for 2016. I hope that we can use the momentum to get better things passed in the future. And I'm stoked to vote for Pramila Jayapal to get more leftist women into Congress.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:21 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Carter refused to provide details about how many instances of voter fraud police have found, or the exact nature of the fraud
Put up or shut up, asshole.
posted by rtha at 8:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]
Put up or shut up, asshole.
posted by rtha at 8:22 PM on October 21, 2016 [25 favorites]
Makes me regret a bit less that she didn't shoot right back in #2 with "YOU, sir, are NO gentleman!"
I get where you're coming from, but the fact that she didn't is an example of what made her performances so impressive. She resisted the temptation, and just stepped back and let him hang himself.
(Surely already posted here in a previous thread, but if you haven't read Ezra Klein at Vox on this, it's great: "The result has been a political achievement of awesome dimensions, but one that Clinton gets scarce credit for because it looks like something Trump is doing, rather than something she is doing — which is, of course, the point.")
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]
I get where you're coming from, but the fact that she didn't is an example of what made her performances so impressive. She resisted the temptation, and just stepped back and let him hang himself.
(Surely already posted here in a previous thread, but if you haven't read Ezra Klein at Vox on this, it's great: "The result has been a political achievement of awesome dimensions, but one that Clinton gets scarce credit for because it looks like something Trump is doing, rather than something she is doing — which is, of course, the point.")
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:24 PM on October 21, 2016 [23 favorites]
mattdidthat: "SECRET SERVICE AGENT SMITH: All posts, election is over. Prepare to stand down. Where is Pumpkin?"
Reading this made me curious about what everyone's actual Secret Service codenames were. According to Wikipedia:
1) The biggest lol is Mike Pence's. Like, his only distinguishing characteristic is that he's from Indiana.
2) The biggest wtf is Tim Kaine's. Is there something the Secret Service knows that we don't? Has Tim Kaine been spotted between 34th St. and 59th St. dispensing justice? Does he have big plans for Snake River Canyon?
3) Of course, Bill gets a bad-ass nickname, although Bernie's is also pretty cool.
posted by mhum at 8:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [49 favorites]
Reading this made me curious about what everyone's actual Secret Service codenames were. According to Wikipedia:
Ben Carson - EliA few notes:
Hillary Cllinton - Evergreen
Bill Clinton - Eagle
Bernie Sanders - Intrepid
Donald Trump - Mogul
Melania Trump - Muse
Mike Pence - Hoosier
Karen Pence - Hummingbird
Tim Kaine - Daredevil
1) The biggest lol is Mike Pence's. Like, his only distinguishing characteristic is that he's from Indiana.
2) The biggest wtf is Tim Kaine's. Is there something the Secret Service knows that we don't? Has Tim Kaine been spotted between 34th St. and 59th St. dispensing justice? Does he have big plans for Snake River Canyon?
3) Of course, Bill gets a bad-ass nickname, although Bernie's is also pretty cool.
posted by mhum at 8:27 PM on October 21, 2016 [49 favorites]
Well, that's just more proof that Bernie is a secret Canadian.
posted by maudlin at 8:31 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by maudlin at 8:31 PM on October 21, 2016
The campaigns don't take the weekend off and neither do the women accusing Donald Trump. Another woman will hold a press conference Saturday with, you guessed it, Gloria Allred to accuse Trump "of victimizing her with inappropriate sexual conduct."
posted by zachlipton at 8:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 8:35 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
They were going to give Tim Kaine the name "Eyebrows" but it was already taken by MeFi's own.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
Gloria Allred is having a press conference tomorrow for #11 to come forward.
posted by Talez at 8:36 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by Talez at 8:36 PM on October 21, 2016
Bill and Hillary's code names are being reused from their time in the White House in the 90s.
posted by xyzzy at 8:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump - MogulThat makes sense:
noun: mogul; plural noun: moguls
a bump on a ski slope formed by the repeated turns of skiers over the same path.
He's a bump on the downward slope of the Republican party, caused by the repeated turns of Republicans over the same path.
posted by notbuddha at 8:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [27 favorites]
Come for the great analysis of the shifting electoral situation, stay for Lisa Desjardins nerding out over maps. (SLYT)
posted by coolname at 8:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by coolname at 8:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I want to like WA Initiative 735 (the anti-Citizens United constitutional amendment bill) but the drafters got a little too excited and decided to remove spending money as protected political speech from individuals as well as corporations. That troubles me.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Existential Dread at 8:42 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Any cynics out there find this breathless Ezra Klein article hilarious? Like it takes some kind of debate genius to outsmart Trump.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, none of the Republican challengers managed to come up with a successful strategy.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
In other upcoming events, James 'selectively edited' O'Keefe has a Part III coming out Monday, and he's making himself sound overly important again:
posted by zachlipton at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Anything happens to me, there's a deadman's switch on Part III, which will be released Monday. @HillaryClinton and @donnabrazile implicated.Nothing like the old "the secrets they don't want you to know" trick to hype something up.
posted by zachlipton at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I want to be president so I can have a cool codename.
posted by Jalliah at 8:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Husband/wife pairs have the same starting letter. What's Anne's code name?
posted by ctmf at 8:48 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 8:48 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mother Jones has a good piece on the Clinton campaign's strategy for spending in red states that are pretty unlikely to go blue:
Arizona could serve a strategic purpose that Indiana did not. Unlike the Hoosier State, it has a large and increasingly politically active Latino population. Tellingly, when Clinton campaign manager Robbie Mook announced the investments in Arizona, he also announced an ad buy in Texas, another state with a large Latino population that was thought to be out of play for Democrats until the Donald Trump campaign began its recent implosion. If she wins Arizona, Clinton could bring Republicans to the table on immigration reform by proving to them that they have no shot at the White House—that even formerly safe red states will turn blue—if they continue to hold the Trump line on immigration.posted by gladly at 8:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
Each family has its own starting letter. Chelsea Clinton was "Energy." The Obamas are Renegade, Renaissance, Radiance, and Rosebud. I don't think Mrs. Kaine's code name has been released yet. (On post: Dogwood? That's so bad it's good.)
posted by xyzzy at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Husband/wife pairs have the same starting letter. What's Anne's code name?
Dogwood.
edit: Not being facetious. Totally serious.
posted by Talez at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dogwood.
edit: Not being facetious. Totally serious.
posted by Talez at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anne is apparently "Dogwood" - state flower of Virginia.
posted by tavella at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by tavella at 8:54 PM on October 21, 2016
Tellingly, when Clinton campaign manager Robbie Mook announced the investments in Arizona, he also announced an ad buy in Texas, another state with a large Latino population that was thought to be out of play for Democrats until the Donald Trump campaign began its recent implosion.05/30/2016, from an interview undoubtedly conducted some time earlier -
So which states do you think Trump puts in play? I asked, mentioning the possibility of Georgia, which some think could go Democratic for the first time since her husband won it in 1992.
“Texas!” she exclaimed, eyes wide, as if daring me to question this, which I did. “You are not going to win Texas,” I said. She smiled, undaunted. “If black and Latino voters come out and vote, we could win Texas,” she told me firmly, practically licking her lips.
posted by carsonb at 8:56 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Point being, the Clinton campaign has considered Texas 'in play' for quite some time.
posted by carsonb at 8:57 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 8:57 PM on October 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
The real question now is, who is going to play Donald Trump in Game Change 2: The Facepalming? Jon Voight with a wig?
Nobody but Alec Baldwin shall be permitted to portray Trump ever again. In the third debate, Trump himself was reduced to doing an Alec-Baldwin-doing-an-impression-of-Trump impression.
posted by dersins at 9:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [30 favorites]
Nobody but Alec Baldwin shall be permitted to portray Trump ever again. In the third debate, Trump himself was reduced to doing an Alec-Baldwin-doing-an-impression-of-Trump impression.
posted by dersins at 9:03 PM on October 21, 2016 [30 favorites]
Mike Pence - Hoosier
As a St. Louisan, I find this hilarious.
posted by saul wright at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
As a St. Louisan, I find this hilarious.
posted by saul wright at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Please forgive me if this is a derail, but why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?
posted by kalimac at 9:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by kalimac at 9:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Phoenix" may he fittingly poetic, but it's also just where McCain is from. Category 2.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:19 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
An old DC joke: Jimmy Carter's code name
was Key Bridge because it goes in and out of Rosslyn.
posted by humanfont at 9:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
was Key Bridge because it goes in and out of Rosslyn.
posted by humanfont at 9:20 PM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm taking the day after the election off, definitely. I went to put it on our vacation calendar at work and discovered I'd previously signed up for an industry breakfast at 7 am that morning, not realizing what day it was. Hahaha no. I've already gotten my money back for the ticket; I'm not planning on being conscious at 7 am the day after the election, but whether I'll be curled in the fetal position sobbing or just blissfully hungover remains to be seen.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:26 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Please forgive me if this is a derail, but why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?
They're words that are brief and easily recognizable when you're in a crowded space or the channel might not be 100%. Same deal behind NATO phonetics.
posted by Talez at 9:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
They're words that are brief and easily recognizable when you're in a crowded space or the channel might not be 100%. Same deal behind NATO phonetics.
posted by Talez at 9:29 PM on October 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
Hannity has his head so far up Trump's ass that, when he's supposed to be conducting an interview, he instead does Trump's job and attempts to refute allegations of sexual assault for him.
posted by zachlipton at 9:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 9:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
"They were going to give Tim Kaine the name "Eyebrows" but it was already taken by MeFi's own."
Tim Kaine is cool enough that I'll share! Not everyone can achieve a wicked awesome eyebrow game like me and Mr. Kaine.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [39 favorites]
Tim Kaine is cool enough that I'll share! Not everyone can achieve a wicked awesome eyebrow game like me and Mr. Kaine.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:37 PM on October 21, 2016 [39 favorites]
And I'm stoked to vote for Pramila Jayapal to get more leftist women into Congress.
This race (for retiring Jim McDermott's seat in the House) was a relief from the start, since the two candidates to come out of the primary were both Democrats. I voted for Jayapal, too, but I'm frustrated that I couldn't also vote for her opponent. They both look really good.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:39 PM on October 21, 2016
This race (for retiring Jim McDermott's seat in the House) was a relief from the start, since the two candidates to come out of the primary were both Democrats. I voted for Jayapal, too, but I'm frustrated that I couldn't also vote for her opponent. They both look really good.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:39 PM on October 21, 2016
Favorite code name joke: "Al Gore is so boring his Secret Service code name is Al Gore." --Al Gore
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:40 PM on October 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
I'm still a day behind on the last thread. Busy week!
Before I start catching up, wanted to add a quick PSA that bears repeating as we get near the end of this crazy ride:
Please start marking your calendars for 2018! I can't stomach the idea of another 2010 Tea Party midterm takeover. Regardless of whatever happens with redistricting, we can all do better with GOTV for the midterms!
posted by p3t3 at 9:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
Before I start catching up, wanted to add a quick PSA that bears repeating as we get near the end of this crazy ride:
Please start marking your calendars for 2018! I can't stomach the idea of another 2010 Tea Party midterm takeover. Regardless of whatever happens with redistricting, we can all do better with GOTV for the midterms!
posted by p3t3 at 9:43 PM on October 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
Favorite code name joke: "Al Gore is so boring his Secret Service code name is Al Gore." --Al Gore
Speechwriter Mark Katz has a great story for The Moth about the time he stole this joke and got it into an actual Al Gore speech and then dreaded admitting it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Speechwriter Mark Katz has a great story for The Moth about the time he stole this joke and got it into an actual Al Gore speech and then dreaded admitting it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not only is Dogwood the state flower of Virginia, but it's a lovely flower, and it's a common piece of Catholic symbolism (the dogwood is claimed in legend to be the wood of the cross, so God made its flowers extra beautiful and the cruciform flowers are tipped with rusty red holes for the stigmata, and they tremble in every breeze in awe and wonder), which is really nice for Ms. Holton, a Virginian who is a devout Catholic like her husband.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [57 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:54 PM on October 21, 2016 [57 favorites]
Another part of that story, sometimes anyhow, is that El Queso Grande twisted its branches so it would never have to be used for crucifixion again.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
"is that El Queso Grande twisted its branches so it would never have to be used for crucifixion again."
Yeah, definitely part of the story! (Of course there are no dogwoods in the Middle East, but it's still a pretty just-so story and a lovely flower and a popular blossom for Easter decorations in the US.)
This campaign is sort of a liturgist's secular dream, because Hillary's campaign is so attentive to symbolism, like her white suits (for the suffragettes) and the "Dogwood" code name and so on. These are people who are really attentive to detail and know a lot about the resonances of symbols! It's like a whole ritualization and celebration of American symbols and history.
I studied liturgy in grad school.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
Yeah, definitely part of the story! (Of course there are no dogwoods in the Middle East, but it's still a pretty just-so story and a lovely flower and a popular blossom for Easter decorations in the US.)
This campaign is sort of a liturgist's secular dream, because Hillary's campaign is so attentive to symbolism, like her white suits (for the suffragettes) and the "Dogwood" code name and so on. These are people who are really attentive to detail and know a lot about the resonances of symbols! It's like a whole ritualization and celebration of American symbols and history.
I studied liturgy in grad school.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:09 PM on October 21, 2016 [53 favorites]
Please forgive me if this is a derail, but why do they use codenames if they're public knowledge? What does it make easier?
Codenames are unique. Having codenames for Obama's daughters means not having the awkwardness of multiple "Miss Obama"s, and not falling back on the informality of first names--which may not be unique in any particular gathering. "Evergreen" means Hillary Clinton, whereas "Mrs. Clinton" could've formerly referred to Bill's mom (deceased in 94), Chelsea (I don't think she's taken her husband's name), or Roger's wife.
They're a matter of expediency, not secrecy. They serve as a very mild short-term veil of secrecy, in that most people who overhear a fragment of conversation won't know the names off-hand, but that won't preserve any privacy from the press.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:14 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
Codenames are unique. Having codenames for Obama's daughters means not having the awkwardness of multiple "Miss Obama"s, and not falling back on the informality of first names--which may not be unique in any particular gathering. "Evergreen" means Hillary Clinton, whereas "Mrs. Clinton" could've formerly referred to Bill's mom (deceased in 94), Chelsea (I don't think she's taken her husband's name), or Roger's wife.
They're a matter of expediency, not secrecy. They serve as a very mild short-term veil of secrecy, in that most people who overhear a fragment of conversation won't know the names off-hand, but that won't preserve any privacy from the press.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:14 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
Unidentified white powder mailed to Clinton HQ in Brooklyn. It's the anthrax scare all over again?
posted by dis_integration at 10:29 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by dis_integration at 10:29 PM on October 21, 2016
Unidentified white powder mailed to Clinton HQ in Brooklyn. It's the anthrax scare all over again?
Or Trump's surplus cocaine.
(well, SOMEBODY was going to say it)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:32 PM on October 21, 2016
Or Trump's surplus cocaine.
(well, SOMEBODY was going to say it)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:32 PM on October 21, 2016
Someone mailed white powder to Trump back in April, so not unprecedented this season.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on October 21, 2016
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on October 21, 2016
> I think he thinks Brexit is horse food perhaps...
He's close. It's actually a dog's breakfast.
posted by vbfg at 11:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
He's close. It's actually a dog's breakfast.
posted by vbfg at 11:50 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
The "Trump is Brexit" narrative has filtered down to Trump's surrogates. That is the bill of goods they were selling to Anderson Cooper this evening while the Dems sort of chuckled and then watched a McMuffin news package together. They were dismissive of his campaign and what signal Utah is sending with those polling numbers. I hope the dismissiveness of his surrogates isn't representative of the GOP as a whole.
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I requested Nov 8th and 9th off from work months ago, knowing that I would be dreadfully hungover following the election but not knowing whether it would be from champagne or whiskey on the rocks.
posted by pupperduck at 1:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by pupperduck at 1:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
For my money, the DNC actually does deserve one. Top quality on all levels, really mesmerizing television.
And, for the heck of it, they should give Hillary the award for Best Reality Host too. 'Cause you aren't gonna get anything better or more real than what she's had to go through this, um, season.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:08 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
For my money, the DNC actually does deserve one. Top quality on all levels, really mesmerizing television.
And, for the heck of it, they should give Hillary the award for Best Reality Host too. 'Cause you aren't gonna get anything better or more real than what she's had to go through this, um, season.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:08 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Btw, I should say, Clinton for me isn't the lesser of two evils. I think she's going to be a great president. And I'm excited to vote for her.
posted by persona au gratin at 2:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 2:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
Another thing about the codenames (like international callsigns) seems to be that even if communications are mangled they're easy to tell apart from the rhythm of the word and disposition of the vowels. I wonder if anyone's ever done a study of the particular dialect of English security operatives use.
posted by Grangousier at 2:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 2:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thanks to early voting, I've already done my part to rig the election for Clinton. It would be cool if my state of GA goes for her. Unlikely, but things are tightening up. With early voting so common now, I wonder what percentage of voters actually vote on Election Day anymore? It seems that the results will be more and more inevitable as more early votes are cast.
Based on my Facebook feed and snippets of conversations I hear, there are an awful lot of people who think that Clinton is the biggest criminal to ever run for public office and that a Trump win is inevitable. Assuming the unthinkable doesn't happen, I wonder what their reactions will be on November 9th? It would be nice if they were shocked back into some sort of reality based politics, but that is probably too much to ask for.
posted by TedW at 3:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Based on my Facebook feed and snippets of conversations I hear, there are an awful lot of people who think that Clinton is the biggest criminal to ever run for public office and that a Trump win is inevitable. Assuming the unthinkable doesn't happen, I wonder what their reactions will be on November 9th? It would be nice if they were shocked back into some sort of reality based politics, but that is probably too much to ask for.
posted by TedW at 3:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm getting the feeling from the discussion here that there's a growing sense that Hillary only needs to win, and not by much, to be president - that the big prize is all the smaller races, where a broad tide of change will restore functionality to government, deflate any vote tampering complaints and diffuse the hatred that's all focused on Hillary. This Canadian sends his best wishes to all you down-ticket Democrats.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
> ...a broad tide of change will restore functionality to government, deflate any vote tampering complaints and diffuse the hatred that's all focused on Hillary.
Yeah, that would be nice. We should be this hopeful.
posted by ardgedee at 4:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that would be nice. We should be this hopeful.
posted by ardgedee at 4:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I plan to take the day of election off and get my head examined. The eyes, specifically.
I tried to talk the office mananager to schedule our office relocation for that day but failed ...
posted by tilde at 4:29 AM on October 22, 2016
I tried to talk the office mananager to schedule our office relocation for that day but failed ...
posted by tilde at 4:29 AM on October 22, 2016
Anyone know of any particularly edible footwear?
Sam Simmons has you covered.
posted by flabdablet at 4:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sam Simmons has you covered.
posted by flabdablet at 4:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
She Never Spoke of It to Her Husband. Then She Heard the Trump Tape. (NYT)
Far from the campaign trail, the shock waves about Mr. Trump’s crude language, captured in a recording, and accusations against him of sexual assault by numerous women are reverberating through marriages and relationships across the country. Couples say they are talking to each other about the degradation of women in new ways and revealing assaults that had been buried for years.
posted by petebest at 5:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
Far from the campaign trail, the shock waves about Mr. Trump’s crude language, captured in a recording, and accusations against him of sexual assault by numerous women are reverberating through marriages and relationships across the country. Couples say they are talking to each other about the degradation of women in new ways and revealing assaults that had been buried for years.
posted by petebest at 5:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
I'm getting the feeling from the discussion here that there's a growing sense that Hillary only needs to win, and not by much, to be president - that the big prize is all the smaller races,
That's not how American politics works. Success in downticket races is always pegged tightly to the popular vote. There are exceptions but, that's the path to success. The better Clinton does in a state, the more she promotes her own campaign there, the better off the other D candidates will do. And vice versa which is why Rs, even those who hate him, feel pressure to support him since there's no good way to distance yourself from the Presidential contender.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:07 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
That's not how American politics works. Success in downticket races is always pegged tightly to the popular vote. There are exceptions but, that's the path to success. The better Clinton does in a state, the more she promotes her own campaign there, the better off the other D candidates will do. And vice versa which is why Rs, even those who hate him, feel pressure to support him since there's no good way to distance yourself from the Presidential contender.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:07 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
As a furriner, all I can ask is that you get out and vote.
Please.
Just vote.
posted by flabdablet at 5:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Please.
Just vote.
posted by flabdablet at 5:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Paul Ryan Nosedives
If Trump were to lose the election, 24 percent of Republicans surveyed would still want him to be the face of the party, while only 15 percent would like his supporter Ryan for that role.
Wow, in this poll a quarter of people who admit to being part of the GOP still want Trump to hang around as "the face of the party".
. . . Having some conflicted feelings on how badly I want the GOP to implode.
posted by petebest at 5:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
If Trump were to lose the election, 24 percent of Republicans surveyed would still want him to be the face of the party, while only 15 percent would like his supporter Ryan for that role.
Wow, in this poll a quarter of people who admit to being part of the GOP still want Trump to hang around as "the face of the party".
. . . Having some conflicted feelings on how badly I want the GOP to implode.
posted by petebest at 5:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Speaking of Arizona, looks like known racist asshole Joe Arpaio is going to be turning in his badge.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [78 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [78 favorites]
If Trumpism had a politically competent leader, I'd think it's possible that this ends with a far-right splinter party emerging as a genuine part of American politics, winning a small but significant number of elections in deep-red states/districts and in some cases forcing Republicans to work either with them or the Democrats to win legislative majorities on anything -- an American UKIP, in other words. As is, it's going to be a popcorn-worthy clusterfuck.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
That 24% that still hearts Trump is the greatest gift to the democrats. Republicans are so stuck aren't they? They can't appeal to their deplorables without turning off their respectables and they can't appeal to the respectables without turning off the deplorables.
Win win for America I say.
posted by ian1977 at 5:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Win win for America I say.
posted by ian1977 at 5:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Quite. In retrospect, Republicans probably should have spent less of the Obama presidency worrying about the ACA death spirals....
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Via PEC Senate Races
Columns are:
1- Democratic win probability today (%)
2- current median polling margin (Democratic>0)
3- win probability adding 2% to Democratic nominee
4- win probability adding 2% to Republican nominee
5- two-letter state code
6- November win probability (random-diffusion model)
0 -20 0 0 AL 0
9 -4 25 2 AK 11
50 0 75 25 AZ 50
0 -15 0 0 AR 0
100 26 100 100 CA 100
95 5 99 84 CO 93
100 13 100 100 CT 100
100 83 100 100 DC 100
100 14 100 100 DE 100
91 4 98 75 FL 89
9 -4 25 2 GA 11
100 31 100 100 HI 100
0 -24 0 0 ID 0
100 25 100 100 IL 100
0 -8 2 0 IN 1
16 -3 37 5 IA 18
0 -16 0 0 KS 0
0 -20 0 0 KY 0
0 -14 0 0 LA 0
100 13 100 100 ME 100
100 22 100 100 MD 100
100 19 100 100 MA 100
100 9 100 99 MI 100
95 5 99 84 MN 93
0 -11 0 0 MS 0
2 -6 9 0 MO 4
0 -13.5 0 0 MT 0
0 -16 0 0 NE 0
84 3 95 63 NV 82
98 6 100 91 NH 96
100 15 100 100 NJ 100
100 11 100 100 NM 100
100 24 100 100 NY 100
75 2 91 50 NC 73
0 -19 0 0 ND 0
50 0 75 25 OH 50
0 -20 0 0 OK 0
100 9 100 99 OR 100
98 6.5 100 93 PA 98
100 14.5 100 100 RI 100
9 -4 25 2 SC 11
0 -13 0 0 SD 0
0 -15 0 0 TN 0
12 -3.5 31 3 TX 15
2 -6 9 0 UT 4
100 28 100 100 VT 100
100 10.5 100 100 VA 100
100 17 100 100 WA 100
0 -22 0 0 WV 0
99 7 100 95 WI 98
0 -35 0 0 WY 0
posted by petebest at 5:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Columns are:
1- Democratic win probability today (%)
2- current median polling margin (Democratic>0)
3- win probability adding 2% to Democratic nominee
4- win probability adding 2% to Republican nominee
5- two-letter state code
6- November win probability (random-diffusion model)
0 -20 0 0 AL 0
9 -4 25 2 AK 11
50 0 75 25 AZ 50
0 -15 0 0 AR 0
100 26 100 100 CA 100
95 5 99 84 CO 93
100 13 100 100 CT 100
100 83 100 100 DC 100
100 14 100 100 DE 100
91 4 98 75 FL 89
9 -4 25 2 GA 11
100 31 100 100 HI 100
0 -24 0 0 ID 0
100 25 100 100 IL 100
0 -8 2 0 IN 1
16 -3 37 5 IA 18
0 -16 0 0 KS 0
0 -20 0 0 KY 0
0 -14 0 0 LA 0
100 13 100 100 ME 100
100 22 100 100 MD 100
100 19 100 100 MA 100
100 9 100 99 MI 100
95 5 99 84 MN 93
0 -11 0 0 MS 0
2 -6 9 0 MO 4
0 -13.5 0 0 MT 0
0 -16 0 0 NE 0
84 3 95 63 NV 82
98 6 100 91 NH 96
100 15 100 100 NJ 100
100 11 100 100 NM 100
100 24 100 100 NY 100
75 2 91 50 NC 73
0 -19 0 0 ND 0
50 0 75 25 OH 50
0 -20 0 0 OK 0
100 9 100 99 OR 100
98 6.5 100 93 PA 98
100 14.5 100 100 RI 100
9 -4 25 2 SC 11
0 -13 0 0 SD 0
0 -15 0 0 TN 0
12 -3.5 31 3 TX 15
2 -6 9 0 UT 4
100 28 100 100 VT 100
100 10.5 100 100 VA 100
100 17 100 100 WA 100
0 -22 0 0 WV 0
99 7 100 95 WI 98
0 -35 0 0 WY 0
posted by petebest at 5:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Texas, Missouri, Alaska, Georgia!
Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote!
posted by petebest at 5:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote!
posted by petebest at 5:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Alas, Kansas, Kentucky, and Louisiana - feels bad man.
posted by petebest at 5:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by petebest at 5:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wait -- he thinks Murphy has an 89% chance of beating Rubio after the Dems pulled money out of the race?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:04 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by schadenfrau at 6:04 AM on October 22, 2016
WTF MN? 95? We are gonna let PA beat us??!?!??
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait -- he thinks Murphy has an 89% chance of beating Rubio after the Dems pulled money out of the race?
He's got an error in his data. FL should be -4 not +4 so assume all numbers are for Rubio.
posted by Talez at 6:09 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's got an error in his data. FL should be -4 not +4 so assume all numbers are for Rubio.
posted by Talez at 6:09 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
They can't appeal to their deplorables without turning off their respectables and they can't appeal to the respectables without turning off the deplorables.
The "respectable" Republicans are only reaping the whirlwind their fathers sowed in the 1960's. They're only "respectable" because they control a lot of money, and they began to realize that they didn't have the numbers to push the policies they really wanted in an honest vote, because you'd have to be an idiot to vote for people who clearly want to plunder the poor and middle class to make themselves even richer.
So they needed more voters, and to get more voters they turned to the deplorables -- two groups of them actually, the racists and the theocracy-yearning evangelicals. Both groups are more prominent in the south, thus the "southern strategy." There's some overlap but they respond to slightly different carrots, which the "responsible" Republicans have been dangling in front of them on a long stick for roughly my entire life.
Thing is, even a very stupid horse will eventually realize that it never quite reaches the goddamn carrot, and one of the things Trump has done this year is blow the illusion that the Republican elite will ever give the deplorables what they really want. They can't, even if they don't mind living in a country themselves where blacks use separate bathrooms and sex outside of married reproduction is illegal, because the minute they let those single-issue groups have their issue, poof! They have no reason to ever vote again.
So for practical purposes at the moment there are about five parties in the US. The Democrats are still a coalition but as we saw it's an uneasy one between the actual left and our own "respectable" elites, who bear a striking resemblance to the Republican "respectables," who in turn have exactly nothing in common with the great-againers and the evangelicals who used to be part of their party coalition. History teaches that these five groups will somehow coalesce into two major parties again, because they have to in order for first past the post governance to function. But other than the Republican and Democratic elites coming together, which seems quite likely to me at this point, it's hard to see how the other three groups will align.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
The "respectable" Republicans are only reaping the whirlwind their fathers sowed in the 1960's. They're only "respectable" because they control a lot of money, and they began to realize that they didn't have the numbers to push the policies they really wanted in an honest vote, because you'd have to be an idiot to vote for people who clearly want to plunder the poor and middle class to make themselves even richer.
So they needed more voters, and to get more voters they turned to the deplorables -- two groups of them actually, the racists and the theocracy-yearning evangelicals. Both groups are more prominent in the south, thus the "southern strategy." There's some overlap but they respond to slightly different carrots, which the "responsible" Republicans have been dangling in front of them on a long stick for roughly my entire life.
Thing is, even a very stupid horse will eventually realize that it never quite reaches the goddamn carrot, and one of the things Trump has done this year is blow the illusion that the Republican elite will ever give the deplorables what they really want. They can't, even if they don't mind living in a country themselves where blacks use separate bathrooms and sex outside of married reproduction is illegal, because the minute they let those single-issue groups have their issue, poof! They have no reason to ever vote again.
So for practical purposes at the moment there are about five parties in the US. The Democrats are still a coalition but as we saw it's an uneasy one between the actual left and our own "respectable" elites, who bear a striking resemblance to the Republican "respectables," who in turn have exactly nothing in common with the great-againers and the evangelicals who used to be part of their party coalition. History teaches that these five groups will somehow coalesce into two major parties again, because they have to in order for first past the post governance to function. But other than the Republican and Democratic elites coming together, which seems quite likely to me at this point, it's hard to see how the other three groups will align.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
I get Election Day off from work, so I'm going to be a Poll Watcher, which is a long day. Then, I'll be up late watching election results.
And I was planning to use cocktails to get through Election Night, but I just realized that the presentation that I'm giving at a professional conference is on Nov. 9th. Fuuuuu---
I might have to take Nov. 10th off just to recover from everything.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
And I was planning to use cocktails to get through Election Night, but I just realized that the presentation that I'm giving at a professional conference is on Nov. 9th. Fuuuuu---
I might have to take Nov. 10th off just to recover from everything.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Crap - sorry folks, even though I linked off the Senate polls those appear to be Presidential race numbers. My apologies.
FWIW senate snapshot for some races here:
State Margin Power
NH Hassan +2.5% 100.0
NV Cortez Masto +3.0% 58.8
PA Toomey +0.5% 17.3
NC Burr +1.5% 16.2
MO Blunt +4.0% 9.8
WI Feingold +5.5% 4.5
IN Bayh +6.0% 3.9
LA TBD +8.0% 3.6
AZ McCain +10.0% 1.9
FL Rubio +6.0% 1.5
IL Duckworth +7.0% 1.2
IA Grassley +17.0% 0.7
CO Bennet +12.5% 0.4
AK Murkowski +38.0% 0.4
OH Portman +15.0% 0.3
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
FWIW senate snapshot for some races here:
State Margin Power
NH Hassan +2.5% 100.0
NV Cortez Masto +3.0% 58.8
PA Toomey +0.5% 17.3
NC Burr +1.5% 16.2
MO Blunt +4.0% 9.8
WI Feingold +5.5% 4.5
IN Bayh +6.0% 3.9
LA TBD +8.0% 3.6
AZ McCain +10.0% 1.9
FL Rubio +6.0% 1.5
IL Duckworth +7.0% 1.2
IA Grassley +17.0% 0.7
CO Bennet +12.5% 0.4
AK Murkowski +38.0% 0.4
OH Portman +15.0% 0.3
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
3) Of course, Bill gets a bad-ass nickname, although Bernie's is also pretty cool.
During the campaign, Sanders has flown coach, taking a middle seat between strangers, gone on Amtrak, and as always, walked unescorted around DC. I suspect the code name is a reminder to the agents not to expect him to retreat towards them when he's in a crowd.
posted by ocschwar at 6:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
During the campaign, Sanders has flown coach, taking a middle seat between strangers, gone on Amtrak, and as always, walked unescorted around DC. I suspect the code name is a reminder to the agents not to expect him to retreat towards them when he's in a crowd.
posted by ocschwar at 6:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
Trump is practically a warrior priest apparently...
posted by ian1977 at 6:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ian1977 at 6:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anne is apparently "Dogwood" - state flower of Virginia.
Actually it's a tree and a flower.
posted by jon1270 at 6:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Actually it's a tree and a flower.
posted by jon1270 at 6:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
So the campaign is tightening.
Trump has three events. One of which is in Virginia. Clinton and her team have 11 GOTV events in six locations in five states. The ground game difference is utterly unbelievable. They are not resting on their laurels. They are just obliterating him on the ground.
Trump on the other hand has pulled in his VP and has nobody else campaigning for him. They come for Trump or not at all I guess.
posted by Talez at 6:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump has three events. One of which is in Virginia. Clinton and her team have 11 GOTV events in six locations in five states. The ground game difference is utterly unbelievable. They are not resting on their laurels. They are just obliterating him on the ground.
Trump on the other hand has pulled in his VP and has nobody else campaigning for him. They come for Trump or not at all I guess.
posted by Talez at 6:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump is speaking in Gettysburg today to lay out his first 100 days. Gettysburg. Cuz Lincoln? Give me a break.
posted by ian1977 at 6:31 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:31 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I wouldn't get too cocky about the plight of the Republicans. Think of this election as potentially being the Reagan/Mondale election, where the Dems got slaughtered. It only took eight years for Bill to "triangulate" and piss off the Republicans by stealing the middle.
Right now, that's almost exactly McMullin's goal, to triangulate from the right, putting a stake in Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy and reach in to steal back some votes from the Dems by use of moderate or even liberal social policy and conservative monetary policy and state rights. If McMullin, or someone like him, could win over some of the Republican "respectables" there are some good reasons to think they might be able to succeed in coercing voters to a "new" more moderate conservative party.
Things like the decline in power of unions and changes in social landscape since Reagan's time matched with some inconsistent messaging of the main branch of the Democratic party which will also be facing a pull to the left from within their ranks, could open some space for a Clinton from the right if they can deliver a message that resonates with moderate voters. If the candidate is sufficiently strong on racial and social issues, I could see the Dems even losing some of their base if they aren't careful. Expecting more than 16 years of Democratic rule in the White House is a lot to ask, and I'm doubtful it'll happen unless the Republicans are complete morons, which,as much as we might like to believe that seems unlikely given how effectively they've managed to corral Democrats over the years around everything but the presidency.
How gerrymandering will be addressed and where that leaves both parties is the unknown factor. If that isn't brought in line, then the Republicans could still be stuck with their nutty fringe holding them back and the party could splinter, which would make the next census election a real nightmare. The Democrats might not be much better off though if they are seen as being in control of the country by dint of having the presidency, but are unable to do much with it due to the usual wrangling in congress. It looks a lot like a major shift is about to happen, but it's hard to predict exactly how it will all turn out.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [31 favorites]
Right now, that's almost exactly McMullin's goal, to triangulate from the right, putting a stake in Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy and reach in to steal back some votes from the Dems by use of moderate or even liberal social policy and conservative monetary policy and state rights. If McMullin, or someone like him, could win over some of the Republican "respectables" there are some good reasons to think they might be able to succeed in coercing voters to a "new" more moderate conservative party.
Things like the decline in power of unions and changes in social landscape since Reagan's time matched with some inconsistent messaging of the main branch of the Democratic party which will also be facing a pull to the left from within their ranks, could open some space for a Clinton from the right if they can deliver a message that resonates with moderate voters. If the candidate is sufficiently strong on racial and social issues, I could see the Dems even losing some of their base if they aren't careful. Expecting more than 16 years of Democratic rule in the White House is a lot to ask, and I'm doubtful it'll happen unless the Republicans are complete morons, which,as much as we might like to believe that seems unlikely given how effectively they've managed to corral Democrats over the years around everything but the presidency.
How gerrymandering will be addressed and where that leaves both parties is the unknown factor. If that isn't brought in line, then the Republicans could still be stuck with their nutty fringe holding them back and the party could splinter, which would make the next census election a real nightmare. The Democrats might not be much better off though if they are seen as being in control of the country by dint of having the presidency, but are unable to do much with it due to the usual wrangling in congress. It looks a lot like a major shift is about to happen, but it's hard to predict exactly how it will all turn out.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [31 favorites]
“Later, he called and left me a message. ‘Can you believe this? Who would say this? I don’t want people to think this about you,’” she said. “He thought that I would try to go out with him so people wouldn’t think that’s why he wouldn’t go out with me.”
Not for the first time the thought that one of Trump's motivation for running is that he can set up a juvenile end of world might as well fuck while we have the chance situation.
Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?
Jindal does not lead by example.
posted by juiceCake at 6:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Not for the first time the thought that one of Trump's motivation for running is that he can set up a juvenile end of world might as well fuck while we have the chance situation.
Jindal declared that Republicans "must stop being the stupid party"?
Jindal does not lead by example.
posted by juiceCake at 6:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't think it's Trump's idea but the lack of a ground game does lend some credence to the belief of a rigged election. If he gets beaten soundly then some of the non-trumpers would be swayed by such a wide gap. We already know that many people on all sides are abandoning facts so regardless of how much press there was about no ground game and terrible resource allocation by Trump they could possibly be drawn to a broken democracy narrative. This is only helped by the really significant lack of Clinton enthusiasm on social media. After all how could she win when all anyone sees is negative stuff about her?
Sure, we see all of these things but the average American doesn't pay that much attention.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sure, we see all of these things but the average American doesn't pay that much attention.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump is speaking in Gettysburg today to lay out his first 100 days. Gettysburg. Cuz Lincoln? Give me a break.
To be fair, Gettysburg is deep red Trump country in an extremely important swing state.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
To be fair, Gettysburg is deep red Trump country in an extremely important swing state.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
even if some people think it's rigged, so what? Some people believe in chemtrails and lizard people. If they also believe that politics is rigged and they won't vote for trump 2.0 so be it. They can stay home and shake their fists for a few cycles.
posted by ian1977 at 6:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm worried they won't stay home when they shake their fists.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
So do we need to have a trump supporter outreach program? A hug for every bigot? They're gonna do what they're gonna do.
posted by ian1977 at 6:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
If McMuffin wants to triangulate he's gonna need to polish up his appeal to women. And somehow I don't see that happening.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:47 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by schadenfrau at 6:47 AM on October 22, 2016
Right now, that's almost exactly McMullin's goal, to triangulate from the right, putting a stake in Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy and reach in to steal back some votes from the Dems by use of moderate or even liberal social policy and conservative monetary policy and state rights. If McMullin, or someone like him, could win over some of the Republican "respectables" there are some good reasons to think they might be able to succeed in coercing voters to a "new" more moderate conservative party.
Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.
If Egg, or any Republican, is going to threaten in a Presidental again, they're either going to have to change something, anything, about their message to expand the party, or turnout every white person in America. Trump is trying the later, and it's (likely) not working. Egg isn't trying either, he's living in Paul Ryan's Earth 2 "better way", meaning the same way as every other time they lost.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.
If Egg, or any Republican, is going to threaten in a Presidental again, they're either going to have to change something, anything, about their message to expand the party, or turnout every white person in America. Trump is trying the later, and it's (likely) not working. Egg isn't trying either, he's living in Paul Ryan's Earth 2 "better way", meaning the same way as every other time they lost.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
A blow out generally defuses emotions, it doesn't stoke them up. So while some of his supporters might go stupid and try and lash out, most, I think, will simply slink back into the shadows until the next would be dictator comes along.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:49 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 6:49 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Each family has its own starting letter.
Ben Carson - Eli
Hillary Cllinton - Evergreen
Bill Clinton - Eagle
I mean, there are only 26 letters so there's sure to be some repetition, but this is still pretty funny.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:50 AM on October 22, 2016
Ben Carson - Eli
Hillary Cllinton - Evergreen
Bill Clinton - Eagle
I mean, there are only 26 letters so there's sure to be some repetition, but this is still pretty funny.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:50 AM on October 22, 2016
> I don't think it's Trump's idea but the lack of a ground game does lend some credence to the belief of a rigged election.
It's worth rereading Scott Shapiro's I went undercover into the Trump campaign... and couldn't believe what I found.
Essentially, the problem is only half that Trump has no ground game. The other half of the problem is that Trump's base is slacktivist: They all want to rant online, they're all available for the parties and gatherings, but very few of them are willing to help with the day-to-day gruntwork a campaign requires.
posted by ardgedee at 6:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [47 favorites]
It's worth rereading Scott Shapiro's I went undercover into the Trump campaign... and couldn't believe what I found.
Essentially, the problem is only half that Trump has no ground game. The other half of the problem is that Trump's base is slacktivist: They all want to rant online, they're all available for the parties and gatherings, but very few of them are willing to help with the day-to-day gruntwork a campaign requires.
posted by ardgedee at 6:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [47 favorites]
Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.
Romney lost that election because he revealed himself to be the corporate stooge that he was and the total contempt for half of the electorate that it exposed. With a friendlier face fucking the poor under a veneer of public service or veteran status it could have quite easily gone the other way.
posted by Talez at 6:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Romney lost that election because he revealed himself to be the corporate stooge that he was and the total contempt for half of the electorate that it exposed. With a friendlier face fucking the poor under a veneer of public service or veteran status it could have quite easily gone the other way.
posted by Talez at 6:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is only helped by the really significant lack of Clinton enthusiasm on social media
But don't people only see the social media updates from their friends and peer group anyway? I mean, my Facebook is full of super enthusiastic Clinton supporters. And I only have 1 distant relative who is a Trump supporter who rarely posts. So if I personally went by Facebook, it looks like everyone loves Clinton.
Trump supporters will likely see an overwhelming pro-Trump message on social media, but that would be true regardless of what level of Clinton support is out there.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
But don't people only see the social media updates from their friends and peer group anyway? I mean, my Facebook is full of super enthusiastic Clinton supporters. And I only have 1 distant relative who is a Trump supporter who rarely posts. So if I personally went by Facebook, it looks like everyone loves Clinton.
Trump supporters will likely see an overwhelming pro-Trump message on social media, but that would be true regardless of what level of Clinton support is out there.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Except McMuffin isn't "triangulating", he's running a rehash of the Romney campaign with bog standard Republican positions, specifically targeting a relatively small religious group in states that can't possibly win an election. Hard to see how that scales up into anything other than Mitt Romney in Egg's wildest dreams. And Romney lost the election.
That isn't quite true, many of his stated positions are fairly to quite liberal. He, for example, had a stronger black lives matter response than Clinton, wants to end mass incarceration, he's advocating for immigrants in the US to gain citizenship, his pro-life position is about lowering abortion rates in part through helping prevent unwanted pregnancies and in general is espousing views not all that far off many moderate Dems on a range of social issues. His conservative kick, is, as you say, Romneyesque, but I'm not sure that is a killer if the other things line up well and they can be sold effectively if the Democrats aren't able to get things done on their side. He definitely ain't FDR, but he isn't Trump or GW either.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]
That isn't quite true, many of his stated positions are fairly to quite liberal. He, for example, had a stronger black lives matter response than Clinton, wants to end mass incarceration, he's advocating for immigrants in the US to gain citizenship, his pro-life position is about lowering abortion rates in part through helping prevent unwanted pregnancies and in general is espousing views not all that far off many moderate Dems on a range of social issues. His conservative kick, is, as you say, Romneyesque, but I'm not sure that is a killer if the other things line up well and they can be sold effectively if the Democrats aren't able to get things done on their side. He definitely ain't FDR, but he isn't Trump or GW either.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]
I'm really curious about what we can learn from this election. Specifically, does campaigning matter? Does GOTV, messaging, data, canvassing, advertising, campaign stops -- does that collective activity actually affect the outcome? We've never had a test case in which one campaign simply abdicates or grossly mishandles most of what goes into modern campaigning. Of course, that candidate is historically odd for many reasons, so we still may not know.
posted by argybarg at 6:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 6:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
> If Egg, or any Republican, is going to threaten in a Presidental again, they're either going to have to change something, anything, about their message to expand the party, or turnout every white person in America. Trump is trying the later, and it's (likely) not working.
Utah this year is, in a twisted way, a recapitulation of the 1992 general election, only with a different Clinton and the wild-eyed upstart businessman is the establishment candidate and the conventional conservative option is the third-party outsider.
posted by ardgedee at 6:57 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Utah this year is, in a twisted way, a recapitulation of the 1992 general election, only with a different Clinton and the wild-eyed upstart businessman is the establishment candidate and the conventional conservative option is the third-party outsider.
posted by ardgedee at 6:57 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
This campaign is sort of a liturgist's secular dream, because Hillary's campaign is so attentive to symbolism,
Something I've loved about both the Obama and Clinton teams is the depth of their knowledge of American cultural history - if you know your civil rights history and the history of the black church in America, you can pick up on so many callbacks in Obama's speeches and imagery, things that cannot be faked or just tossed in there! Same thing with Clinton's and the women's rights movement (the white suits are the perfect example) and Kaine's and Biden's strand of American Catholicism. Not only because these four peoples' connection to these American subcultures is authentic and lifelong, but also because they clearly take care to hire people who know their stuff.
This is partly why I found that Jennifer Palmieri email about Catholics so interesting and complicated. There's been a gap widening between conservative/very strict and liberal/more relaxed Catholics in America for a long time, since Vatican II dramatically "modernized" the Church, all through the Reagan revolution and the rise of the Moral Majority. This is less a black-and-white split and more a spectrum, from Catholics who still cling to the Latin Mass all the way through "cafeteria" Catholics (choose what parts you want to practice.)
Sometimes this has resulted in whole parishes or even whole dioceses that are conservative (Arlington, where Scalia's family worships, and which was one of the last in the country to allow girls to serve at the altar), but mostly you get parishes that are mixed. And there have also been mixed messages about who is right and the right direction of the church from the top down - we went from Pope John Paul II (who built a cultural reputation as with-it and lax but was actually conservative in practice) to Benedict (very conservative) to Francis (the ultimate Jesuit). Nuns in America generally tended to be more open-minded and less conservative/strict than many bishops/parish priests (although there really are many open-minded priests out there), not to mention less tainted by the priest abuse scandal, and then Pope Benedict called for his McCarthy-esque investigation of American nuns, which disgusted a lot of the liberal/lax Catholic wing. Through it all, the liberal/lax Catholic wing has been trying to move this elephantine, ancient Church in the right direction, and every time it budges a millimeter (like the recent plans for female deacons), the conservatives throw a fit about it.
It has felt a bit like the conservative camp sees liberal Catholics watering down their faith, slowly erasing all the difficult, meaningful parts of Catholicism; and the liberal camp sees conservative Catholics not just clinging to retrograde, unnecessary parts of the Church, but also kind of cosplaying this make-believe version of Catholicism that never really existed, as if they're trying to copy the evangelicals they have political affiliations with. From a liberal perspective, Scalia's practice of Catholicism seemed not just outdated, but also inauthentic--for show, and for political convenience. Someone like Pence who actually seems to have left the Church to become an evangelical - that's just "um what??? why???" territory. (Despite Catholicism's reputation for bells and whistles and decked-out churches, liberal Catholic culture, at least in the U.S., and at least the liberal/Jesuit strand I was raised in, doesn't have the same appreciation for the show of religiosity that evangelical faiths in the U.S. do - it's read as phony and try-hard.)
So seeing people who were not raised in the Church join the Church as adults specifically to practice this conservative/strict/cosplay type of American Catholicism where they go to the Latin Mass and back Benedict-style policy and try and push back against reforms that some liberal American Catholics have been asking for and working for all their lives - that's where Palmieri's email is coming from. It's about how these politically conservative converts are borrowing the cultural capital of American Catholicism as more socially acceptable and normal, or at least closer to WASP, than sincere/wacko/lower-class evangelicalism (an acceptability owing at least in part to the liberal wing of American Catholics like the Kennedys), and using this faith they weren't raised in to help along a political conservatism disdained by a large wing of the Church in America.
Cardinal Dolan can bullshit all he wants about "oh Hillary should apologize" but he knows exactly what that email is about, because he's been taking potshots at the liberal Catholics for his entire showboating career.
posted by sallybrown at 7:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [151 favorites]
Something I've loved about both the Obama and Clinton teams is the depth of their knowledge of American cultural history - if you know your civil rights history and the history of the black church in America, you can pick up on so many callbacks in Obama's speeches and imagery, things that cannot be faked or just tossed in there! Same thing with Clinton's and the women's rights movement (the white suits are the perfect example) and Kaine's and Biden's strand of American Catholicism. Not only because these four peoples' connection to these American subcultures is authentic and lifelong, but also because they clearly take care to hire people who know their stuff.
This is partly why I found that Jennifer Palmieri email about Catholics so interesting and complicated. There's been a gap widening between conservative/very strict and liberal/more relaxed Catholics in America for a long time, since Vatican II dramatically "modernized" the Church, all through the Reagan revolution and the rise of the Moral Majority. This is less a black-and-white split and more a spectrum, from Catholics who still cling to the Latin Mass all the way through "cafeteria" Catholics (choose what parts you want to practice.)
Sometimes this has resulted in whole parishes or even whole dioceses that are conservative (Arlington, where Scalia's family worships, and which was one of the last in the country to allow girls to serve at the altar), but mostly you get parishes that are mixed. And there have also been mixed messages about who is right and the right direction of the church from the top down - we went from Pope John Paul II (who built a cultural reputation as with-it and lax but was actually conservative in practice) to Benedict (very conservative) to Francis (the ultimate Jesuit). Nuns in America generally tended to be more open-minded and less conservative/strict than many bishops/parish priests (although there really are many open-minded priests out there), not to mention less tainted by the priest abuse scandal, and then Pope Benedict called for his McCarthy-esque investigation of American nuns, which disgusted a lot of the liberal/lax Catholic wing. Through it all, the liberal/lax Catholic wing has been trying to move this elephantine, ancient Church in the right direction, and every time it budges a millimeter (like the recent plans for female deacons), the conservatives throw a fit about it.
It has felt a bit like the conservative camp sees liberal Catholics watering down their faith, slowly erasing all the difficult, meaningful parts of Catholicism; and the liberal camp sees conservative Catholics not just clinging to retrograde, unnecessary parts of the Church, but also kind of cosplaying this make-believe version of Catholicism that never really existed, as if they're trying to copy the evangelicals they have political affiliations with. From a liberal perspective, Scalia's practice of Catholicism seemed not just outdated, but also inauthentic--for show, and for political convenience. Someone like Pence who actually seems to have left the Church to become an evangelical - that's just "um what??? why???" territory. (Despite Catholicism's reputation for bells and whistles and decked-out churches, liberal Catholic culture, at least in the U.S., and at least the liberal/Jesuit strand I was raised in, doesn't have the same appreciation for the show of religiosity that evangelical faiths in the U.S. do - it's read as phony and try-hard.)
So seeing people who were not raised in the Church join the Church as adults specifically to practice this conservative/strict/cosplay type of American Catholicism where they go to the Latin Mass and back Benedict-style policy and try and push back against reforms that some liberal American Catholics have been asking for and working for all their lives - that's where Palmieri's email is coming from. It's about how these politically conservative converts are borrowing the cultural capital of American Catholicism as more socially acceptable and normal, or at least closer to WASP, than sincere/wacko/lower-class evangelicalism (an acceptability owing at least in part to the liberal wing of American Catholics like the Kennedys), and using this faith they weren't raised in to help along a political conservatism disdained by a large wing of the Church in America.
Cardinal Dolan can bullshit all he wants about "oh Hillary should apologize" but he knows exactly what that email is about, because he's been taking potshots at the liberal Catholics for his entire showboating career.
posted by sallybrown at 7:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [151 favorites]
Great NYT op-ed by John Leguizamo.
I had the privilege of shooting John last year for a magazine feature about him and the release of his graphic novel Ghetto Klown and he's as awesome, cool, and nice as you'd hope for.
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
I had the privilege of shooting John last year for a magazine feature about him and the release of his graphic novel Ghetto Klown and he's as awesome, cool, and nice as you'd hope for.
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Trump is practically a warrior priest apparently...
The only question is his alignment: Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
The only question is his alignment: Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a furriner, all I can ask is that you get out and vote.
Wait, so you want us to vote AND buy new horseshoes?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Wait, so you want us to vote AND buy new horseshoes?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Jindal does not lead by example.
I've often thought that Jindal is the most depressing prominent political actor in the US. Watching this guy who graduated from Brown and who is only a Rhodes Scholar because he decided to go to Oxford instead of taking his acceptances at Harvard Medical or Yale Law stand up and do his "something called volcano observatories" schtick, watching this transparently brilliant man pretending to be a dipshit, just stabs me right in the heart.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [52 favorites]
I've often thought that Jindal is the most depressing prominent political actor in the US. Watching this guy who graduated from Brown and who is only a Rhodes Scholar because he decided to go to Oxford instead of taking his acceptances at Harvard Medical or Yale Law stand up and do his "something called volcano observatories" schtick, watching this transparently brilliant man pretending to be a dipshit, just stabs me right in the heart.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [52 favorites]
In the "so random it is funny" dept:
@ thomaskaplan Pence talks up Indiana agriculture at the @NationalFFA convention: "We're proud of the fact we're No. 1 in commercial duck production."
We're # 1! In commercial duck production Which means I guess that some other state is #1 in non-commercial duck production i.e. ducks having ducklings for no good reason other than they want to have fun.
The New Yorker Making Peace with Trump’s Revolutionaries
@ thomaskaplan Pence talks up Indiana agriculture at the @NationalFFA convention: "We're proud of the fact we're No. 1 in commercial duck production."
We're # 1! In commercial duck production Which means I guess that some other state is #1 in non-commercial duck production i.e. ducks having ducklings for no good reason other than they want to have fun.
The New Yorker Making Peace with Trump’s Revolutionaries
He felt that most of his classmates would vote for Trump, but their commitment was shallow, in his opinion. After his time in the Middle East, he had concluded that Americans don’t really understand what an uprising is. “They’re talking about a revolution,” he said, of Trump supporters. “But they’re too lazy. Americans are too lazy. They’re fine with a rally. But they’re not up for a real revolution.”[...]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [63 favorites]
Most of the time, Trump ranted about Clinton or Obama, and the crowd responded in set ways. They booed any reference to Obamacare; the e-mail scandal prompted chants of “Lock her up! Lock her up!” People seemed to enjoy venting, but these targets were distant and somewhat abstract, and I sensed that the routine would have become boring without the more immediate presence of the media[...] he made a media reference every few minutes, pausing to give the crowd time to react. Eventually, people started leaning over the barrier to shout, “Crooked press! Crooked press!,”
eventually his conspiracy theories will probably serve another purpose. In Egypt, as the revolution collapsed, and the dreams of Tahrir faded away, the talk of international plots became darker and more frequent. It was a way of coping with frustration and lack of control, but it was also a way of disengaging. As the veteran had told me on the college campus, a real revolution requires commitment—if you’re determined to overthrow Mubarak, then you have to stay on the square and fight his minions until it’s finished. But there’s no way to fight the vast international conspiracies of the Jews, the Turks, and the Americans. In the same way, when Trump talks about how the election is fixed, and how the State Department covers up scandals, and how the media spreads lies, he’s not necessarily preparing his followers for resistance or violence after November 8th. He’s showing them how to give up without giving in.
More Utah thinking. Courtesy of Pat Bagley. We are not dead yet, not even sleeping.
posted by Oyéah at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Excellent observations, sallybrown. I'm not Catholic, but I'm Catholic-educated, living in a heavily ethnic liberal Catholic city and my husband is the classic Catholic hybrid (Italian on his dad's side, Irish on his mom's) and raised in the Church. I grew up around liberal Catholics who were mainly Catholic through an ethnic identity rather than deep religious feeling, and attended a Catholic school effectively run by liberation theologist laity. Sooo it was pretty effin' weird when we moved to rural Maryland, which also has a deep, strong Catholic identity (though Catholics are still in the minority) but the Catholics there were nearly indistinguishable from the majority evangelicals.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yesterday in Utah the polls were Clinton 26%, Trump 26%, McNugget 22%
posted by Oyéah at 7:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 7:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Breitbart's headline this morning: He's with her: Inside Paul Ryan's months-long campaign to elect Hillary Clinton President.
I've been reading that Steve Bannon has decided to take Ryan out of the game. I wouldn't mind since I think Ryan is a spineless weasel who would starve his own grannie if he thought it would give him a chance at the White House but on the other hand I don't want Bannon to get too cocky either. Maybe they will butt heads hard enough to knock each other out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
I've been reading that Steve Bannon has decided to take Ryan out of the game. I wouldn't mind since I think Ryan is a spineless weasel who would starve his own grannie if he thought it would give him a chance at the White House but on the other hand I don't want Bannon to get too cocky either. Maybe they will butt heads hard enough to knock each other out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
Trump is practically a warrior priest apparently...
Isn't he more akin to Witch-king of Angmar? Leader of a band of evil soul-sucking wraiths, in thrall to a Lord from a faraway land, and seemingly invulnerable throughout the entire primary season. But soon to learn the true meaning of "not by the hand of man will he fall."
posted by xigxag at 7:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [45 favorites]
Isn't he more akin to Witch-king of Angmar? Leader of a band of evil soul-sucking wraiths, in thrall to a Lord from a faraway land, and seemingly invulnerable throughout the entire primary season. But soon to learn the true meaning of "not by the hand of man will he fall."
posted by xigxag at 7:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [45 favorites]
That 24% that still hearts Trump is the greatest gift to the democrats. Republicans are so stuck aren't they? They can't appeal to their deplorables without turning off their respectables and they can't appeal to the respectables without turning off the deplorables.
Win win for America I say.
I'd say no. In the long run democracy requires a competent opposition party.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Win win for America I say.
I'd say no. In the long run democracy requires a competent opposition party.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Bannon's is the job to have, I guess. A great big funnel of money ends at your mouth, your lips move according to the money game plan, and then you get some of it. Then people listen to him, because like Oz, behind the green curtain, he makes the cartoon illusions the marks like to enjoy. These illusions in turn, make the marks feel good, while they empty their pockets, which fills the money funnel. Wow! It is relevant but, only like a talking vacuum cleaner would be, people love their clever appliances.
posted by Oyéah at 7:59 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 7:59 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'd say no. In the long run democracy requires a competent opposition party.
I used to say that, and I have a personal stake in it as I'm probably the most right-leaning person on MeFi.
But...
If the opposition is just a well-organnized wing within the Democratic party, the system can still work. At least for a while. In the meantime, the current staff of K-street douchebags and spreadsheet obsessives in the GOP needs to be retired before we can have a good GOP again.
posted by ocschwar at 8:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
I used to say that, and I have a personal stake in it as I'm probably the most right-leaning person on MeFi.
But...
If the opposition is just a well-organnized wing within the Democratic party, the system can still work. At least for a while. In the meantime, the current staff of K-street douchebags and spreadsheet obsessives in the GOP needs to be retired before we can have a good GOP again.
posted by ocschwar at 8:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
In my misspent youth, I may have read one or two of the early books in L. Ron Hubbard's "Mission Earth". In my defense, I was not aware at the time of the clusterfuck that is Scientology, and the books were tedious enough that I soon gave up.
Every time I hear "Steve Bannon" my mind automatically replaces it with "Soltan Gris".
posted by Slothrup at 8:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Every time I hear "Steve Bannon" my mind automatically replaces it with "Soltan Gris".
posted by Slothrup at 8:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Reporters grow testy on late night Trump conference call:
The reporter interjected to say, "I'm trying to figure out what's new and what we should be paying attention to."posted by sallybrown at 8:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [27 favorites]
"I don't want to say what it will be," the Trump staffer replied.
"Okay, then why are we on this call?" the reporter asked.
There was a brief pause, and the Trump staffer referred the question to another unnamed Trump aide.
That senior staffer explained that the tour kickoff tomorrow is important and newsworthy because it'll offer a "roadmap of what Mr. Trump's first 100 days in office would look like and what the key focal points would be."
The only concrete piece of new information during the nearly 30-minute call came at the very end — when Trump's team revealed Gettysburg had been chosen as the location of the tour kickoff because the candidate believes Abraham Lincoln is an important figure in GOP history.
To be fair, Gettysburg is deep red Trump country in an extremely important swing state.
Yeah, but he's losing in Pennsylvania. And Virginia. He's wasting time in states he's going to lose.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:07 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, but he's losing in Pennsylvania. And Virginia. He's wasting time in states he's going to lose.
Exactly. Before you even get to VA you have to go through WI and MI and Trump is MIA from there the next four days. When Trump is letting Pence off the leash he's still busy defending Ohio.
posted by Talez at 8:11 AM on October 22, 2016
Exactly. Before you even get to VA you have to go through WI and MI and Trump is MIA from there the next four days. When Trump is letting Pence off the leash he's still busy defending Ohio.
posted by Talez at 8:11 AM on October 22, 2016
sallybrown, I am forever in your debt for "cosplaying Catholics".
posted by donnagirl at 8:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by donnagirl at 8:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
It's interesting to me as a high-church Episcopalian to hear Roman Catholic perspectives. We tend to look at the RCC as kind of the older sibling that's turned out to be not so great at adulting. Like, we remember looking up to you back in the day but wtf, get your shit together already.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:35 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:35 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Still waiting for the Trump speech to start. In the mean time Pence is droning on to the Faith & Freedom Coalition.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2016
I reread this this morning, and there's never a bad time for it:
Pericles' Funeral Oration from Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War:
posted by sallybrown at 8:43 AM on October 22, 2016 [69 favorites]
Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.And from some of the sources that we think influenced Lincoln:
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Pericles' Funeral Oration from Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War:
The sacrifice which they collectively made was individually repaid to them; for they received again each one for himself a praise which grows not old, and the noblest of all tombs, I speak not of that in which their remains are laid, but of that in which their glory survives, and is proclaimed always and on every fitting occasion both in word and deed. For the whole earth is the tomb of famous men; not only are they commemorated by columns and inscriptions in their own country, but in foreign lands there dwells also an unwritten memorial of them, graven not on stone but in the hearts of men.Daniel Webster, "Second Reply to Hayne" (1830):
No State law is to be valid which comes in conflict with the Constitution, or any law of the United States passed in pursuance of it. But who shall decide this question of intereference? To whom lies the last appeal? This, Sir, the Constitution itself decides also, by declaring, "That the judicial power shall extend to all cases arising under the Constitution and laws of the United States." These two provisions cover the whole ground. They are, in truth, the keystone of the arch! With these it is a government; without them it is a confederation. . . . When my eyes shall be turned to behold for the last time the sun in heaven, may I not see him shining on the broken and dishonored fragments of a once glorious Union; on States dissevered, discordant, belligerent; on a land rent with civil feuds, or drenched, it may be, in fraternal blood! Let their last feeble and lingering glance rather behold the gorgeous ensign of the republic, now known and honored throughout the earth, still full high advanced, its arms and trophies streaming in their original lustre, not a stripe erased or polluted, not a single star obscured, bearing for its motto, no such miserable interrogatory as "What is all this worth?" nor those other words of delusion and folly, "Liberty first and Union afterwards"; but everywhere, spread all over in characters of living light, plazing on all it sample folds, as they float over the sea and over the land, and in every wind under the whole heavens, that other sentiment, dear to every true American heart, - Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseperable!Theodore Parker, "Discourses of Slavery" (1850):
There is what I call the American idea. I so name it, because it seems to me to lie at the basis of all our truly original, distinctive, and American institutions. It is itself a complex idea, composed of three subordinate and more simple ideas, namely: The idea that all men have unalienable rights; that in respect thereof, all men are created equal; and that government is to be established and sustained for the purpose of giving every man an opportunity for the enjoyment and development of all these unalienable rights. This idea demands, as the proximate organization thereof, a democracy, that is, a government of all the people, by all the people, for all the people; of course, a government after the principles of eternal justice, the unchanging law of God; for shortness' sake, I will call it the idea of freedom. That is one idea; and the other is, that one man has a right to hold another man in thraldom, not for the slave's good, but for the master's convenience; not on account of any wrong the slave has done or intended, but solely for the benefit of the master. This idea is not peculiarly American. For shortness' sake, I will call this the idea of slavery. It demands for its proximate organization, an aristocracy, that is, a government of all the people by a part of the people—the masters; for a part of the people—the masters; against a part of the people—the slaves; a government contrary to the principles of eternal justice, contrary to the unchanging law of God. . . . In the turmoil of party politics, and of personal controversy, let us not forget continually to move the previous question, whether freedom or slavery is to prevail in America. There is no attribute of God which is not on our side; because, in this matter, we are on the side of God.Trump has not even begun to understand what Lincoln was saying.
posted by sallybrown at 8:43 AM on October 22, 2016 [69 favorites]
Pence has jumped on the rigged election crazy train but bathing it in reasonableness.
posted by Talez at 8:44 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by Talez at 8:44 AM on October 22, 2016
Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
If anyone's still reading: I Waited 96 Years (.com)
I don't usually comment on people's voting decisions, but I guess I'm just a sucker for patience and long-deferred hopes and old people.
posted by d. z. wang at 8:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
I don't usually comment on people's voting decisions, but I guess I'm just a sucker for patience and long-deferred hopes and old people.
posted by d. z. wang at 8:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers
So they want to rig the election by bussing people?
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]
So they want to rig the election by bussing people?
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]
Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers
"Your honor all we want to do is send old racists into the cities to challenge every voter and exacerbate the lines!"
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
"Your honor all we want to do is send old racists into the cities to challenge every voter and exacerbate the lines!"
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
Yeah, but he's losing in Pennsylvania. And Virginia. He's wasting time in states he's going to lose.
At this point, his only possible path to 270 involves a good solid national swing toward him; he can fight for the marginals over the next two weeks, but even if he pushes hard in FL, NC, NH & the swing district northern ME and squeaks out victories in those places, he only gets to 267. He needs all those plus either PA, OH or both VA and WI. So he might as well go for broke in PA (though Ohio is easier for him probably) and assume he'll carry the bluish-purple states through some externally-caused swing.
This isn't the reasoning behind their strategy of course; they're convinced that the polls are skewed and that they're actually in a tight race. But a legit analysis leads to the same results.
TL;DR: The Republicans need Ohio (or PA, or VA+WI) to win the White House, so they might as well play there and hope for the best.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
At this point, his only possible path to 270 involves a good solid national swing toward him; he can fight for the marginals over the next two weeks, but even if he pushes hard in FL, NC, NH & the swing district northern ME and squeaks out victories in those places, he only gets to 267. He needs all those plus either PA, OH or both VA and WI. So he might as well go for broke in PA (though Ohio is easier for him probably) and assume he'll carry the bluish-purple states through some externally-caused swing.
This isn't the reasoning behind their strategy of course; they're convinced that the polls are skewed and that they're actually in a tight race. But a legit analysis leads to the same results.
TL;DR: The Republicans need Ohio (or PA, or VA+WI) to win the White House, so they might as well play there and hope for the best.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pennsylvania Republicans are suing to allow out of county poll watchers
Remember shit like this in a couple weeks when Paul Ryan is holding a press conference to talk about that whole Donald Trump thing that happened, and how it had nothing to do with the core values of the Grand Old Party.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [64 favorites]
Remember shit like this in a couple weeks when Paul Ryan is holding a press conference to talk about that whole Donald Trump thing that happened, and how it had nothing to do with the core values of the Grand Old Party.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [64 favorites]
A high school friend just posted a picture of her grandma on Twitter, with the message "When she was born, women didn't have the right to vote. Today my 102 year old grandma cast a historic ballot."
Pretty awesome stuff.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]
Pretty awesome stuff.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]
I don't usually comment on people's voting decisions, but I guess I'm just a sucker for patience and long-deferred hopes and old people.
My grandmother was born in 1914; I remember her talking about taking the horse and buggy to church as a child. I wasn't quite able to convince her to vote for Obama, unfortunately (the Midwestern Republican heritage was strong in that one), but she was definitely awed by the fact that in her lifetime the country had elected a black man as President.
Grandma graduated from Western Michigan University in 1934 -- her mother had always wanted to go to college but of course wasn't able to, and was determined that her daughters would, misogyny and Great Depressions be damned. I wish she were still here to see the first woman president.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
My grandmother was born in 1914; I remember her talking about taking the horse and buggy to church as a child. I wasn't quite able to convince her to vote for Obama, unfortunately (the Midwestern Republican heritage was strong in that one), but she was definitely awed by the fact that in her lifetime the country had elected a black man as President.
Grandma graduated from Western Michigan University in 1934 -- her mother had always wanted to go to college but of course wasn't able to, and was determined that her daughters would, misogyny and Great Depressions be damned. I wish she were still here to see the first woman president.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
Trump meeting: We're tripling down on voter fraud now.
posted by Talez at 9:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 9:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump meeting: Hillary shouldn't have been allowed to run but FBI and DOJ both covered up lying to FBI and Congress.
posted by Talez at 9:12 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:12 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump meeting: James Cartwright, a four star general, is our martyr!
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump: Why is Hillary allowed to run? Media is a major part of this corruption.
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here I thought this was going to be a dangerous speech because Trump was sounding reasonable with his fake and/or misleading statistics about fraudulent voting, and then he leads right into his "Hillary should have been banned from running because she lied and/or broke the law," something that would only seem accurate to the lowest of low education voters. I would love to know whether he understands that even accepting every allegation he's made against Hillary wouldn't bar her from running for President under our Constitution? I think he really might not know that.
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Drew Magary is my favorite fool sportswriter. I almost understood years of my dad calling into sports talk shows when one of my letters of complaint against the Detroit Lions made it into this year's 'Why Your Team Sucks.' Given the annoyingly conservative tenor of most sportsfolk, I am so, so happy he's been a staunch, consistent opponent of Trump.
The 2016 Election Will Never End:
The 2016 Election Will Never End:
As much as the GOP establishment wants to treat Trump like a fart in an elevator, come November 8th they will share the exact same goal, and utilize the same truther news outlets to achieve it. It’s been discouraging to watch the GOP stymie Obama at every turn for the last eight years (with Obama, at times, being far too deferential to them), and it’s not like they’re gonna magically grow a heart once Hillary Clinton takes office. I promise you that dipshits like Mitch McConnell will declare it their mission to thwart Clinton, and then sit on their dicks for the duration of her stay in the White House.If You're a Republican, You Have No Right To Bitch About America:
That’s how the GOP works. They deserve to go down with Trump and yet, somehow, they’ll survive all this, without being forced to learn a thing. Even if they lose control of Congress, they’ll find a way to regenerate and then fuck everyone. Everything Trump does in practice, they do in policy. And they’ll have the support of both their donors AND the pig voters they have nurtured for years (who have been granted more anthropological empathy than virtually any other segment of society), the ones who flocked to Trump this year but will gladly stick by the Republican party because they’ve been conditioned for the past three decades to cry out "BITCH!" any time anyone says the name Hillary out loud. These people are in each other’s thrall forevermore.
It’s always a mistake to attempt to psychoanalyze Trump and his supporters, given that Trump is history’s greatest imbecile, and given his campaign is little more than a 16-month outburst of childish irrationality. You can blame it on the economy, or sexism, or racism, or all three… but that undercurrent of unhappiness girds all of them. As explained by this Cracked essay that people have been passing around as if it’s good (it is not), people in rural Trump Country are tired of being sneered at. They believe they’ve been disenfranchised, spiritually if not literally. They believe no one cares about them. They believe that their voices have not been heard. “Deplorables,” etc. They are voting for Trump to give a proverbial middle finger to the establishment.Inside Trump TV, The Best Network Yet:
Now, here’s an unsurprising twist: These people are goddamn deluded. That anti-establishment pose that Trump is riding is the same line of bullshit that Republicans have coasted on for decades. And it’s worked. Look around you, rural America. You already live in Donald Trump’s idealized version of this country. Love guns? We have more guns than people. Hate abortion? Multiple states, probably including yours, have already made abortions illegal in most instances and virtually impossible to obtain otherwise. Want a border wall? Yup, we’ve got one of those, too (NOTE: it doesn’t work). Tired of activist justices making up laws as they go along? Well, you’re in luck! Because judicial vacancies are at an all-time high. Support the cops? We gave them TANKS. Don’t want your tax money going to imaginary lazy poor people? America’s tax rate is below average for the developed world. Want Trump to bomb the hell out of Muslims? We’re way ahead of you on that.
Try not to think of Election Day as the end of Donald Trump's presidential fantasies. That's so sad! Instead, think of it as the beginning of Trump TV! It's gonna be the BEST (worst) network. Millions (hundreds) will watch it. Every cable provider (one in Montana) will carry it. Prepare your eyeballs for luxury with a sneak peek at what we assume will be the launch lineup for Trump TV.posted by palindromic at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [78 favorites]
Trump: The media never try to show or mention our large crowd size. In fact, they talk about Hillary's crowd size which is very small.
Three national polls put us in front. Most accurate polls in 2012. Media refuses to talk about it.
AT&T buying TWC is a big no-no for Trump.
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Three national polls put us in front. Most accurate polls in 2012. Media refuses to talk about it.
AT&T buying TWC is a big no-no for Trump.
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump is speaking in Gettysburg right now and is in full teleprompter mode with his serious quiet voice on. He's still saying that the election is rigged and the FBI and justice department covered up Hillary's crimes. Also, "every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. Total fabrication. "
posted by Sophie1 at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by Sophie1 at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2016
Trump: Washington Post owner Amazon should be paying massive taxes but is not paying. Comcast purchase of NBC concentrates too much power in one massive entity. Trump wants to break them up. They're trying to poison the mind of the American voter.
What the fuck is going on?
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
What the fuck is going on?
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
All right, he's scaring me again. Because this whole "the media is lying, the women are lying, they're all lying to you because I would break up the AT&T deal and the comcast deal" and "i'll break up all the power at the top and fix everything" is just some straight up Hitler shit.
But it's Hitler setting up for failure after the election, like if he'd been able to plan for the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch.
"Look at what they've done to you."
posted by schadenfrau at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
But it's Hitler setting up for failure after the election, like if he'd been able to plan for the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch.
"Look at what they've done to you."
posted by schadenfrau at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over.
posted by Talez at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
He says he's going to sue all of the women who made accusations. And he's tying it to the media. If they can do that to me, they can do this to you. Your jobs, your lives, your children.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
This was supposed to be first hundred days. Media must be pissed right now that they're being taken for a ride again.
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Read that as "Trump is going to sue the electors after the election is over." Still believable.
posted by Archelaus at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's expanded to "everything is rigged, the entire system is rigged."
Like, poisoning political institutions isn't cool. You know what's cool? Poisoning the social contract at the root.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Like, poisoning political institutions isn't cool. You know what's cool? Poisoning the social contract at the root.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump: Washington Post owner Amazon should be paying massive taxes but is not paying. Comcast purchase of NBC concentrates too much power in one massive entity. Trump wants to break them up. They're trying to poison the mind of the American voter.
What the fuck is going on?
"I will use our civil servants in the Antitrust Division to exact personal revenge on the media, I promise you that!"
posted by sallybrown at 9:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
What the fuck is going on?
"I will use our civil servants in the Antitrust Division to exact personal revenge on the media, I promise you that!"
posted by sallybrown at 9:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
This was supposed to be first hundred days. Media must be pissed right now that they're being taken for a ride again.
Any media entity foolish enough to believe Trump wasn't going to pull something like this only has themself to blame. He does this *every time*.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 9:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
Any media entity foolish enough to believe Trump wasn't going to pull something like this only has themself to blame. He does this *every time*.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 9:20 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
This was supposed to be first hundred days.
This is the first hundred days and all the days after.
posted by kingless at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is the first hundred days and all the days after.
posted by kingless at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump just suckered cable news into giving wall to wall coverage of his latest stump speech.
posted by Talez at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can yall do longer digests so it's not just his speech line by line by line?
posted by cashman at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 9:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump has not even begun to understand what Lincoln was saying.
I can't get past that line from the Second Inaugural:
Can you imagine the hurricane of a shitstorm that would ensue on Morning Joe et al. if Obama said that? It's basically Wright's "God damn America" (and he was right to say that, and it was shitty of Obama to throw him under the bus although I understand why he had to do it).
Party of Lincoln my ass. None of those people have even begun to understand what he was saying. And he was a moderate liberal for his time, frequently dealing with opposition from the radical wing of his own party.
We've come such a long way since then in practical terms, to be sure; but in some disturbing ways, our political discourse is not even as progressive.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:22 AM on October 22, 2016 [70 favorites]
I can't get past that line from the Second Inaugural:
Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."Paraphrased: "If the Civil War continues until every dollar of capital that originated in the stolen labor of black bodies is destroyed -- that's fair."
Can you imagine the hurricane of a shitstorm that would ensue on Morning Joe et al. if Obama said that? It's basically Wright's "God damn America" (and he was right to say that, and it was shitty of Obama to throw him under the bus although I understand why he had to do it).
Party of Lincoln my ass. None of those people have even begun to understand what he was saying. And he was a moderate liberal for his time, frequently dealing with opposition from the radical wing of his own party.
We've come such a long way since then in practical terms, to be sure; but in some disturbing ways, our political discourse is not even as progressive.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:22 AM on October 22, 2016 [70 favorites]
Programming notes - Joy Reid will be hosting MSNBC today from 5:00pm-7:00pm.
Also, tomorrow 60 minutes is finally doing an election-related story. It's on the election, and Ohio.
posted by cashman at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2016
Also, tomorrow 60 minutes is finally doing an election-related story. It's on the election, and Ohio.
posted by cashman at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2016
The "she shouldn't have been allowed to run" bit has been in heavy rotation, I think because this will remain his crazypants justification that the election was "rigged" regardless of what happens at the polls, at all.
posted by thelonius at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
This list of idiotic Trumpmas gifts is going alientate anyone who knows the barest amount about how our government works. It's impossible to achieve a constitutional amendment in a single day, to start with. This is on the level of suggestions for government change that a second-grader might propose. "Erase that law and put another one!"
posted by sallybrown at 9:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:25 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
tomorrow 60 minutes is finally doing an election-related story. It's on the election, and Ohio.
Trump voters: what do they really want?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump voters: what do they really want?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
His 100 day action plan is what we all knew before.
This is a slightly less digressive and distracted stump speech.
posted by Talez at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a slightly less digressive and distracted stump speech.
posted by Talez at 9:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
So he suckered the media into paying close attention to him telling the media that he's going to destroy them and make them pay.
Yeah that will get them to be sympathetic Donald!
posted by Jalliah at 9:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
New York Daily News has a 14-part editorial: Bury Trump in a Landslide. This is a paper that endorsed George W. Bush in 2004.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:27 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
He seems paled and defeated, but quiet Trump sometimes scares me more.
posted by bluecore at 9:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 9:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
but quiet Trump sometimes scares me more
Because it covers the lunacy in a thin veneer of respectability.
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Because it covers the lunacy in a thin veneer of respectability.
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Talez: Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over.
Trump is destroying his future for after he loses the election. Promises like that give his enemies specific reason to work to destroy him after the election is over. If he just conceded and shut up, he could be left alone. However, if he's going to do damage all over - undermining our democracy, attempting to harm the women he's abused - he gives the government a legitimate reason to shut him down.
And it's not like he's invulnerable; all of this election has shown that it would not be really difficult to find totally legitimate charges to arrest him on (charity misconduct, tax evasion, sexual assault, possibly actual espionage if he's personally working with Russia...)
If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Trump is destroying his future for after he loses the election. Promises like that give his enemies specific reason to work to destroy him after the election is over. If he just conceded and shut up, he could be left alone. However, if he's going to do damage all over - undermining our democracy, attempting to harm the women he's abused - he gives the government a legitimate reason to shut him down.
And it's not like he's invulnerable; all of this election has shown that it would not be really difficult to find totally legitimate charges to arrest him on (charity misconduct, tax evasion, sexual assault, possibly actual espionage if he's personally working with Russia...)
If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:32 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.
posted by Talez at 9:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over.
Guaranteed to help his polling with women. And CNN just sent out a breaking news push notice about it. Well done.
posted by chris24 at 9:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Guaranteed to help his polling with women. And CNN just sent out a breaking news push notice about it. Well done.
posted by chris24 at 9:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
but quiet Trump sometimes scares me more
It reminds me so much of my abusive father. When he was really, really angry, his voice would get very quiet and growly. Terrifying. Everything about Trump is the textbook of malignant narcissism.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
It reminds me so much of my abusive father. When he was really, really angry, his voice would get very quiet and growly. Terrifying. Everything about Trump is the textbook of malignant narcissism.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
Who will be Trump's enemies when this is all over? Like, serious "i will destroy you and salt the earth" enemies? And who will just keep on humoring him so as not to anger his fans.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on October 22, 2016
And I expect Gloria Allred is smiling and motioning 'bring it bucko'
posted by Jalliah at 9:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Can we find a way to also give her an Emmy?
Yeah, and she already has a Grammy... Hillary for EGOTP! (PEGOT? no. EGOTUS! That's it.)
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, and she already has a Grammy... Hillary for EGOTP! (PEGOT? no. EGOTUS! That's it.)
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump wants two years in prison for attempting illegal reentry, five years if you're a previous felon. Holy shit.
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
@KevinMKruse: Right off the bat, Trump refers to Gettysburg as "hollowed ground." Perfect.
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on October 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.
I wish they would throw this stuff up on the green screen, turn down the lights, sit with their backs to the camera watching the rally/conference/rant whatever and just give live MST3K-style color commentary.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
I wish they would throw this stuff up on the green screen, turn down the lights, sit with their backs to the camera watching the rally/conference/rant whatever and just give live MST3K-style color commentary.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Would a sitting President even be able to sue as a private citizen? Or are these more actions that he would appoint special prosecutors for?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on October 22, 2016
I think exacting revenge would be Trump's top priority in or out of office. He sounds like he would try to purge the government and attempt some sort of restructuring. I believe he will take action on the mass deportations, mass incarcerations, extreme vetting, religious persecution, use of violence as a means at home and abroad, build the stupid wall. I don't believe for one second he will enact any kind of economic reforms.
All his fear mongering and rhetoric on security, law and order, endorsement of violence and incarceration coupled with his dismissal of the democratic process is truly terrifying. Its like he's a mish-mash of every Marvel comic villain. How can people be so stupid not to vote against this guy?
posted by angrybear at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
All his fear mongering and rhetoric on security, law and order, endorsement of violence and incarceration coupled with his dismissal of the democratic process is truly terrifying. Its like he's a mish-mash of every Marvel comic villain. How can people be so stupid not to vote against this guy?
posted by angrybear at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
Did anyone else catch this - Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us. This =/= "Mexico will pay for the wall." That's new...not that that wasn't his plan all along (to the extent he has any plan at all), but that he's presenting it to his crowd this way.
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
OK that was fucking weird. He talked about cyber attacks. He started his topic sentence and mid-paragraph, immediately pivoted to immigration, then went back to ethics before MAGA.
The fuck was that?
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016
The fuck was that?
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2016
Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.
No, we need footage of this as an example of how unhinged he's become to tie to people like Ryan for the rest of their lives, if not for suits and counter-suits against him after the election.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:48 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
No, we need footage of this as an example of how unhinged he's become to tie to people like Ryan for the rest of their lives, if not for suits and counter-suits against him after the election.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:48 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison
This should happen even if he did somehow stop the temper tantrum. He's a habitually exploitive cheater, and there's good evidence that he's broken several laws in several jurisdictions. I hope the NY and CA AGs don't give a flying fuck about whether he starts to play nice or not.
And cmon. He's not capable of backing off.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:48 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
This should happen even if he did somehow stop the temper tantrum. He's a habitually exploitive cheater, and there's good evidence that he's broken several laws in several jurisdictions. I hope the NY and CA AGs don't give a flying fuck about whether he starts to play nice or not.
And cmon. He's not capable of backing off.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:48 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
@KevinMKruse: Trump's closing argument: He'll use the presidency's powers to settle grudges vs Clinton, media & women who accused him of sexual assault.
posted by chris24 at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [38 favorites]
If he keeps making threats like this, look for charges to be laid within a month or two of the end of the election, with more and more piled on from all directions until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.
In my happy place world, Eric Schneiderman creates a special division of the NY AG's office dedicated specifically to pursue Trumpian crimes. Law & Order: Special Donald Unit.
I know, I know, it's kind of a persecution fantasy and I should feel bad about it. Still it is quite a cathartic daydream.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
In my happy place world, Eric Schneiderman creates a special division of the NY AG's office dedicated specifically to pursue Trumpian crimes. Law & Order: Special Donald Unit.
I know, I know, it's kind of a persecution fantasy and I should feel bad about it. Still it is quite a cathartic daydream.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
No, really it's a nice balance to my suspicion that nothing will happen or he'll actually be rewarded for this shit.
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us.
Applying the Razor: Someone on FNC used the word 'reimburse' and Trump thought it sounded smart.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Applying the Razor: Someone on FNC used the word 'reimburse' and Trump thought it sounded smart.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us. This =/= "Mexico will pay for the wall." That's new
That isn't really new, but it was probably lost in the miasma of his previous bubbleguts. He mentioned once that one way he would try to get the money back for the wall would be to seize or tax or something, the money some immigrants send to family members out of the country. I think he also mentioned tariffs or some other after-the-fact way of getting the money.
posted by cashman at 9:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
That isn't really new, but it was probably lost in the miasma of his previous bubbleguts. He mentioned once that one way he would try to get the money back for the wall would be to seize or tax or something, the money some immigrants send to family members out of the country. I think he also mentioned tariffs or some other after-the-fact way of getting the money.
posted by cashman at 9:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
So the lede on this speech will be him suing the women, which just continues and expands the coverage of this terrible topic for him. Genius.
posted by chris24 at 9:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
No, really it's a nice balance to my suspicion that nothing will happen or he'll actually be rewarded for this shit.
Yeah, I guess in my real happy place world, white collar crimes are treated as the crimes of systemic exploitation that they are.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I guess in my real happy place world, white collar crimes are treated as the crimes of systemic exploitation that they are.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
expands the coverage of this terrible topic for him. Genius.
Oh, but he needs to reassure his people that he's tough, no?
posted by Namlit at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2016
Oh, but he needs to reassure his people that he's tough, no?
posted by Namlit at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2016
> "Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on."
Why were they covering it this way in the first place? Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.
posted by kyrademon at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Why were they covering it this way in the first place? Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.
posted by kyrademon at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.
rigged!!!
posted by Namlit at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
rigged!!!
posted by Namlit at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
@KatyTurNBC: Dear American voters,
In my first 100 days I will bring lawsuits against those who have criticized me.
Best,
Donald J Trump
posted by chris24 at 9:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [50 favorites]
In my first 100 days I will bring lawsuits against those who have criticized me.
Best,
Donald J Trump
posted by chris24 at 9:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [50 favorites]
One last nod to the good old days of Trumpmania, I guess.
posted by Artw at 9:59 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by Artw at 9:59 AM on October 22, 2016
Clinton doesn't get this kind of coverage when she announces a policy speech.
To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
> "Trump is going to sue all of his accusers after the election is over."
And yet his surrogates are still going to be all over TV asking, "But why didn't they come forward sooner?", as if there were some pile of sweet sweet sexual assault dollars just sitting there ready for the taking instead of this depressingly predictable result.
posted by kyrademon at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [55 favorites]
And yet his surrogates are still going to be all over TV asking, "But why didn't they come forward sooner?", as if there were some pile of sweet sweet sexual assault dollars just sitting there ready for the taking instead of this depressingly predictable result.
posted by kyrademon at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [55 favorites]
With that in mind I've never connected Trump to Nixon. Only to McCarthy. His power was gained by a traditional political process and structure that, at it's worse, condones obsufcation for political gain and survival. Both played zero-sum games and both, to me, seem to have had/have a weird-ass death wish. Nixon, on the other hand was a junkyard dog. He had the presence to rebuild his ground game after his loss for CA Governorship in 1962. Many political historian still consider this one of the great political comebacks.
I'm connecting the all-out nastiness of the current election cycle to how Watergate led to the disillusionment in American political culture, but I guess the latter is an oversimplification because the antiwar and Civil Rights movements, the assassination of JFK, and the general turmoil of the '60s were all important, Nixon and Watergate was just a nadir for the American public's trust in its government institutions. Perhaps we'll look back at Trump as an exclamation mark on everything that had led to this point- the Tea Party, the factions that empowered the Bush administration, the anti-gov't movements during Bill Clinton's administration, and the reign of Reagan.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm connecting the all-out nastiness of the current election cycle to how Watergate led to the disillusionment in American political culture, but I guess the latter is an oversimplification because the antiwar and Civil Rights movements, the assassination of JFK, and the general turmoil of the '60s were all important, Nixon and Watergate was just a nadir for the American public's trust in its government institutions. Perhaps we'll look back at Trump as an exclamation mark on everything that had led to this point- the Tea Party, the factions that empowered the Bush administration, the anti-gov't movements during Bill Clinton's administration, and the reign of Reagan.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'll happily donate to a legal fund for trump's accusers. Hopefully as they're suing him for defamation, though. As a side effect, there would also be the discovery process and wall-to-wall media coverage reminding America that this was the GOP presidential candidate.
posted by codacorolla at 10:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 10:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
@justinjm1: By calling accusers liars in public, Trump opens himself to defamation lawsuits where his words ("grab them by the pussy") would be evidence
@RadioFreeTom: Trump just said he's going to sue all his accusers as liars.
Here's an idea: they should now sue him *first*, right *now*, for defamation.
posted by chris24 at 10:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]
@RadioFreeTom: Trump just said he's going to sue all his accusers as liars.
Here's an idea: they should now sue him *first*, right *now*, for defamation.
posted by chris24 at 10:13 AM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]
Wouldn't a whole lot of other video tape currently protected by NDAs also be discoverable?
On preview, what Burhanistan said.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
On preview, what Burhanistan said.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:18 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is partly why I found that Jennifer Palmieri email about Catholics so interesting and complicated. There's been a gap widening between conservative/very strict and liberal/more relaxed Catholics in America for a long time, since Vatican II dramatically "modernized" the Church, all through the Reagan revolution and the rise of the Moral Majority. This is less a black-and-white split and more a spectrum, from Catholics who still cling to the Latin Mass all the way through "cafeteria" Catholics (choose what parts you want to practice.)
I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, which are heavily Catholic (if everyone didn't already know that). I was actually taken aback when I went to college (in California, which is not exactly lacking in Catholics) and really exposed to American anti-Catholicism for the first time. I don't doubt there are people in Chicago who think Catholics aren't "real" Christians, but they don't go about telling you to your face. Over time, I've become increasingly convinced that American culture as whole has no idea about pretty much anything to do with Catholicism. (Sometimes, when people ask about my politics, I'm tempted to say "my dad's a Catholic from Chicago, how do you think I vote?" I wonder how long it would take until someone took that to mean I was a Republican.)
posted by hoyland at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, which are heavily Catholic (if everyone didn't already know that). I was actually taken aback when I went to college (in California, which is not exactly lacking in Catholics) and really exposed to American anti-Catholicism for the first time. I don't doubt there are people in Chicago who think Catholics aren't "real" Christians, but they don't go about telling you to your face. Over time, I've become increasingly convinced that American culture as whole has no idea about pretty much anything to do with Catholicism. (Sometimes, when people ask about my politics, I'm tempted to say "my dad's a Catholic from Chicago, how do you think I vote?" I wonder how long it would take until someone took that to mean I was a Republican.)
posted by hoyland at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
He ain't suing shit because he's terrified of discovery.
The great thing now is that having called them liars while threatening them, a lawsuit is no longer only his call. Paging Gloria Allred.
posted by chris24 at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]
The great thing now is that having called them liars while threatening them, a lawsuit is no longer only his call. Paging Gloria Allred.
posted by chris24 at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [23 favorites]
until he's ruined and powerless and possibly in prison.
It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.
posted by philip-random at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.
posted by philip-random at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.
Gilt-y as charged?
*taps mic*
"Is this thing on?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Gilt-y as charged?
*taps mic*
"Is this thing on?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.
So the Clinton campaign needs to announce a speech where she'll threaten unholy vengeance against all who've wronged her. Then, once the cameras are rolling, she spends 90 minutes discussing specific legislative changes to the Affordable Care Act.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [160 favorites]
So the Clinton campaign needs to announce a speech where she'll threaten unholy vengeance against all who've wronged her. Then, once the cameras are rolling, she spends 90 minutes discussing specific legislative changes to the Affordable Care Act.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [160 favorites]
"{Republicans] now feel like outsiders in a country they once felt like home," Bill Clinton said, noting that those feelings were once shared with "gays immigrants, African-Americans, women, people with disabilities" and added we need to find a way to bring them back in and raise everyone back up (Bill Clinton in his Broadway for Hillary speech). I'm trying to keep that in mind. Also trying to go high, when they go low.
posted by beaning at 10:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by beaning at 10:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
@ddale8
Trump: "Who's gonna pay for the wall?"
Crowd: "Mexicooo at some point after we fully fund it ourselves."
posted by chris24 at 10:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Trump: "Who's gonna pay for the wall?"
Crowd: "Mexicooo at some point after we fully fund it ourselves."
posted by chris24 at 10:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.
Then on day 2 he'll start an argument with that asshole in the next room and the screaming will last into eternity.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Then on day 2 he'll start an argument with that asshole in the next room and the screaming will last into eternity.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Right off the bat, Trump refers to Gettysburg as "hollowed ground."
Please, everyone, for the love of all that is unholy, remember this before going around saying "Happy Holloween."
/pet peeve
posted by Sys Rq at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Please, everyone, for the love of all that is unholy, remember this before going around saying "Happy Holloween."
/pet peeve
posted by Sys Rq at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
The other half of the problem is that Trump's base is slacktivist: They all want to rant online, they're all available for the parties and gatherings, but very few of them are willing to help with the day-to-day gruntwork a campaign requires.
That's because turning out the grunt work requires a talented, inspiring, engaged leader. Consistently successful managers know. That's what i meant earlier; one of the most telling things about his ability to lead a large organization like the whole fucking country is his inability to get the right people on his side as his top managers. Or ignorance that he should be doing that. You can't even run a competent campaign organization, Trump, you want us to give you the country? It's not (just) the crazy/absent policy, it's about your complete ineffectiveness and incompetence as a leader.
posted by ctmf at 10:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
That's because turning out the grunt work requires a talented, inspiring, engaged leader. Consistently successful managers know. That's what i meant earlier; one of the most telling things about his ability to lead a large organization like the whole fucking country is his inability to get the right people on his side as his top managers. Or ignorance that he should be doing that. You can't even run a competent campaign organization, Trump, you want us to give you the country? It's not (just) the crazy/absent policy, it's about your complete ineffectiveness and incompetence as a leader.
posted by ctmf at 10:30 AM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
Heer Jeet: Could've been worse. Trump could've meditated on how Gettysburg would make a hell of a golf coarse [sic].
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well, hollowed ground is likely nicely aerated and would make for lush fairways.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
And yet Trump campaigns against him as much as Clinton.
@Nate_Cohn
Obama's approval rating hits 57% in the Gallup tracker--the highest figure since late Dec. 2012.
posted by chris24 at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
@Nate_Cohn
Obama's approval rating hits 57% in the Gallup tracker--the highest figure since late Dec. 2012.
posted by chris24 at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
The witch hunt against - mostly female and POC - journalists who were on a conference call with the Clinton call reminds me why I think The Intercept is about as useless and self-important as Wikileaks.
posted by asteria at 10:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by asteria at 10:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
He ain't suing shit because he's terrified of discovery.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:16 AM on October 22
Fascinatingly, this is both false and true. Trump has taken himself hostage.
"Everybody better call these women liars, or the Cheeto gets it!"
"You'd better do what he says- this guy's seriously crazy!"
*crowd cheers*
posted by petebest at 10:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Burhanistan at 10:16 AM on October 22
Fascinatingly, this is both false and true. Trump has taken himself hostage.
"Everybody better call these women liars, or the Cheeto gets it!"
"You'd better do what he says- this guy's seriously crazy!"
*crowd cheers*
posted by petebest at 10:42 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I had to look up the crazification factor.
I'd forgotten that we have Seven of Nine's divorce to thank for ensuring Obama's ascendancy.
posted by Yowser at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
I'd forgotten that we have Seven of Nine's divorce to thank for ensuring Obama's ascendancy.
posted by Yowser at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
@KevinMKruse: Trump's closing argument: He'll use the presidency's powers to settle grudges vs Clinton, media & women who accused him of sexual assault.
So that's his big 'first 100 days' plan?
posted by mazola at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
So that's his big 'first 100 days' plan?
posted by mazola at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
How's that lawsuit against the New York Times coming along, Mr. Trump?
posted by kyrademon at 10:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 10:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Trump vows to sue assault accusers in speech outlining 1st 100 days
Capital editing from tronc which notes in the story that the speech had nothing to do with Dohnald's imagined first 100 days. The threat "overshadowed his intended focus", per tronc. I can think of at least three things wrong with that 'report'.
tronc.
posted by petebest at 10:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Capital editing from tronc which notes in the story that the speech had nothing to do with Dohnald's imagined first 100 days. The threat "overshadowed his intended focus", per tronc. I can think of at least three things wrong with that 'report'.
tronc.
posted by petebest at 10:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
How did I manage to hit my article limit for the Chicago Tribune?
posted by Yowser at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2016
posted by Yowser at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2016
The world will little note, nor long remember what he says here.
posted by kyrademon at 11:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [48 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 11:03 AM on October 22, 2016 [48 favorites]
How did I manage to hit my article limit for the Chicago Tribune?
You didn't go "Incognito" (Chrome) or "New Private Window" (Firefox)?
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You didn't go "Incognito" (Chrome) or "New Private Window" (Firefox)?
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just sent out a tweet criticizing Dernald Trump. I'll let you all know how it goes.
posted by DanSachs at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DanSachs at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just realized that beyond all of reasons that Trump is horrible person and unfit in so many ways I really don't like him because he and his campaign is just so bad at politics.
It's just pathetic and should be embarassing how bad they are at it. It's good and great he's bad of course but boy is it just annoying to watch.
They wanted this speech to be 100 days, policy and whatnot, show that side of him and his campaign. So what does he do? Starts with suing everyone and focusing on his revenge crap. And now that is what is dominating the headlines. Are you guys that clueless? Still? You haven't figured out how it works yet? No, now you're just going to belly ache and whine more about the press focusing on this part of your speech.
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [64 favorites]
The world will little note, nor long remember what he says here.
This is probably true. But it's the sediment he's been dredging up as he's flailed around while drowning that will pollute the political water for a long time. Sarah Posner, in a series of tweets about the response to her Rolling Stone piece, "Meet the Alt-Right 'Spokesman' Who's Thrilled With Trump's Rise," says this:
There's a lot of denial in my mentions today, after my piece yesterday @RollingStone that the alt right is a movement that will have any continuing resonance or influence if Trump loses. This would be a major error on the part of liberals to assume a movement's demise because of the loss of its favored presidential candidate. Movements are more intensely felt and resilient than one presidential campaign (even one that is so clearly driven by a movement that was, for many Americans, invisible before Trump.) For example, how many times was the premature obituary of the religious right written?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is probably true. But it's the sediment he's been dredging up as he's flailed around while drowning that will pollute the political water for a long time. Sarah Posner, in a series of tweets about the response to her Rolling Stone piece, "Meet the Alt-Right 'Spokesman' Who's Thrilled With Trump's Rise," says this:
There's a lot of denial in my mentions today, after my piece yesterday @RollingStone that the alt right is a movement that will have any continuing resonance or influence if Trump loses. This would be a major error on the part of liberals to assume a movement's demise because of the loss of its favored presidential candidate. Movements are more intensely felt and resilient than one presidential campaign (even one that is so clearly driven by a movement that was, for many Americans, invisible before Trump.) For example, how many times was the premature obituary of the religious right written?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Oh and you wanted to create this modern Gettysburg address moment. Yeah yeah we get that.
So now you got Gettysburg Address 2016, a great speech of the modern era! "Sue and destroy all the lyin' media and wimmons!!!"
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
So now you got Gettysburg Address 2016, a great speech of the modern era! "Sue and destroy all the lyin' media and wimmons!!!"
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Mr. Trump's plan to have Mexico pay for the wall is to have the illegal Mexicans build it on their way out of the country. I see no reason slavery is incompatible with his personal views. (Might even be legal if he can get them sentenced to it.)
posted by bigbigdog at 11:10 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by bigbigdog at 11:10 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Its like he's a mish-mash of every Marvel comic villain. How can people be so stupid not to vote against this guy?
Y'know what?
Doom is a competent leader of a nation with universal health care, one of the highest literacy rates in the world, and basically no crime.
Mystique successfully negotiated her team's way from criminal activity--to the point where they literally had the word "Evil" in their name--and into government service.
Wilson Fisk is a genuinely successful business entrepreneur. How many civil suits has he lost? Same goes for Norman Osborn, while we're at it.
Kang has successfully conquered many, many different eras of history.
Even MODOK has shown incredible administrative chops just by holding AIM together, especially in light of his handicaps. I mean I don't want to sound calloused toward the disabled, but look at that dude. Seriously. And yet he's got followers and actionable plans.
And Magneto made some valid points.
I'm really, really sick of seeing people insult comic book villains by comparing them to Donald Trump. That's just not fair.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [124 favorites]
Y'know what?
Doom is a competent leader of a nation with universal health care, one of the highest literacy rates in the world, and basically no crime.
Mystique successfully negotiated her team's way from criminal activity--to the point where they literally had the word "Evil" in their name--and into government service.
Wilson Fisk is a genuinely successful business entrepreneur. How many civil suits has he lost? Same goes for Norman Osborn, while we're at it.
Kang has successfully conquered many, many different eras of history.
Even MODOK has shown incredible administrative chops just by holding AIM together, especially in light of his handicaps. I mean I don't want to sound calloused toward the disabled, but look at that dude. Seriously. And yet he's got followers and actionable plans.
And Magneto made some valid points.
I'm really, really sick of seeing people insult comic book villains by comparing them to Donald Trump. That's just not fair.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:11 AM on October 22, 2016 [124 favorites]
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
The (relatively) sane part of campaign team (Jim Murphy, Kellyanne Conway) has lost complete control of the situation. Trump and Bannon are 100% in the driver's seat egged on by Rudy and it shows. All Kellyanne can do at this point is walk into a cable news station, pretend the egregious parts of Trump's performances never happened and spin the hell out of any positive thing she can take from the "performance" that Trump gives. If an anchor decides to ask about the stuff she wants to pretend doesn't exist she just deflects back to a Hillary failing. Almost no anchors actually call her on it. When one actually does call her on it she says she wants to "talk about the issues" and starts spinning the positives again.
It's pretty much her only MO now.
posted by Talez at 11:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
The (relatively) sane part of campaign team (Jim Murphy, Kellyanne Conway) has lost complete control of the situation. Trump and Bannon are 100% in the driver's seat egged on by Rudy and it shows. All Kellyanne can do at this point is walk into a cable news station, pretend the egregious parts of Trump's performances never happened and spin the hell out of any positive thing she can take from the "performance" that Trump gives. If an anchor decides to ask about the stuff she wants to pretend doesn't exist she just deflects back to a Hillary failing. Almost no anchors actually call her on it. When one actually does call her on it she says she wants to "talk about the issues" and starts spinning the positives again.
It's pretty much her only MO now.
posted by Talez at 11:14 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump has managed not to threaten to sue a journalist or critic in the last:
0 days
2 hours
2 minutes
18 seconds
posted by petebest at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
0 days
2 hours
2 minutes
18 seconds
posted by petebest at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.
American cable channels should bring in a UK interviewer the next time Conway is on.
There would be nothing left but a pile of ash, which would promptly be swallowed by a vaguely glowing hole in the ground.
posted by Yowser at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]
American cable channels should bring in a UK interviewer the next time Conway is on.
There would be nothing left but a pile of ash, which would promptly be swallowed by a vaguely glowing hole in the ground.
posted by Yowser at 11:17 AM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]
The (relatively) sane part of campaign team (Jim Murphy, Kellyanne Conway)
Jim Murphy, head of GOTV, left the campaign Thursday.
Conway has been tweeting like a hostage blinking SOS in a video statement.
posted by chris24 at 11:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
Jim Murphy, head of GOTV, left the campaign Thursday.
Conway has been tweeting like a hostage blinking SOS in a video statement.
posted by chris24 at 11:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
@KellyannePolls
In first 100 days as President, Trump says he will start job creation, tax reduction, school choice, secure borders, better healthcare plan
Huh. Missed that SOMEHOW.
posted by petebest at 11:21 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
> To be fair, "Trump gives policy speech" is kind of a man-bites-dog story, while "Clinton gives policy speech" is up there with "This is a day ending in 'y'" on the newsworthiness scale.
To be fair to whom though? That's only "fair" to a media model in which ratings are the safe-haven currency. But that media model is deeply "unfair" to our society, assuming one accepts the principle that a well-informed public is essential to the health of a democracy.
Among my wildest hopes that nevertheless reside within sight of the bounds of the possible, I dream that the backlash from the Trump effect brings about such an electoral landslide that it ushers in a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress, AND that the scars and recent memories from the utter, unmitigated river of media catastrophuckery that we've all been awash in throughout this election cycle might, might, might together be enough of a kick in the teeth to spur a sustained fear of the possibility of the failure of the Grand Experiment.
In such an apprehensive political environment, the Democratic congress produces a legitimate and improved successor to the Fairness Doctrine, which would formally establish that the quality of information that the public receives regarding matters of state, being critical to the functioning of our society, is subject to regulation, in very much the same way that public utilities are regulated. The architecture of information delivery systems would thereby be deemed critical infrastructure, and the content of the information they deliver would be monitored for quality.
Heightened regulations would kick in on a given information source when independent data collection & analysis demonstrates that a benchmark percentage of the public or raw number of citizens is receiving information from an unregulated source.
The media could continue to operate as private enterprises when they are not conducting state business. Crackpots would continue to fret about the informational equivalent of fluoride in their drinking water, and dig wells next to septic tanks to consume within their families. But they would be fined out of existence if they tried to poison the public.
Media, being required to cover matters of state responsibly or pay dearly for their failure to do so, would generate models for interviewing and conducting panel discussions that would prevent bad-faith actors from speaking on matters of state, since a pattern of this would trigger legal interventions. The KellyAnne Conways and Katy Piersons of the political universe would be stopped before they could build up heads of steam, and required to produce evidence for their claims, or have their mics cut and/or not be asked back. They certainly would not be paid by the networks to poison the wells.
And then, in my last thought before turning back to see that I've strayed far beyond sight of the realm of the possible, I dream that the regulations would also apply to elected representatives, who, having an even higher duty to the public, would be personally subject to fines for outright deceiving the public about the content of specific legal documents.
posted by perspicio at 11:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
To be fair to whom though? That's only "fair" to a media model in which ratings are the safe-haven currency. But that media model is deeply "unfair" to our society, assuming one accepts the principle that a well-informed public is essential to the health of a democracy.
Among my wildest hopes that nevertheless reside within sight of the bounds of the possible, I dream that the backlash from the Trump effect brings about such an electoral landslide that it ushers in a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress, AND that the scars and recent memories from the utter, unmitigated river of media catastrophuckery that we've all been awash in throughout this election cycle might, might, might together be enough of a kick in the teeth to spur a sustained fear of the possibility of the failure of the Grand Experiment.
In such an apprehensive political environment, the Democratic congress produces a legitimate and improved successor to the Fairness Doctrine, which would formally establish that the quality of information that the public receives regarding matters of state, being critical to the functioning of our society, is subject to regulation, in very much the same way that public utilities are regulated. The architecture of information delivery systems would thereby be deemed critical infrastructure, and the content of the information they deliver would be monitored for quality.
Heightened regulations would kick in on a given information source when independent data collection & analysis demonstrates that a benchmark percentage of the public or raw number of citizens is receiving information from an unregulated source.
The media could continue to operate as private enterprises when they are not conducting state business. Crackpots would continue to fret about the informational equivalent of fluoride in their drinking water, and dig wells next to septic tanks to consume within their families. But they would be fined out of existence if they tried to poison the public.
Media, being required to cover matters of state responsibly or pay dearly for their failure to do so, would generate models for interviewing and conducting panel discussions that would prevent bad-faith actors from speaking on matters of state, since a pattern of this would trigger legal interventions. The KellyAnne Conways and Katy Piersons of the political universe would be stopped before they could build up heads of steam, and required to produce evidence for their claims, or have their mics cut and/or not be asked back. They certainly would not be paid by the networks to poison the wells.
And then, in my last thought before turning back to see that I've strayed far beyond sight of the realm of the possible, I dream that the regulations would also apply to elected representatives, who, having an even higher duty to the public, would be personally subject to fines for outright deceiving the public about the content of specific legal documents.
posted by perspicio at 11:23 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
It's pretty much her only MO now.
Kurtz: Did they say why, Willard, why they want to terminate my command?
Willard: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.
Kurtz: It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?
Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
posted by valkane at 11:24 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
It's pretty much her only MO now.
Kurtz: Did they say why, Willard, why they want to terminate my command?
Willard: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.
Kurtz: It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?
Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
posted by valkane at 11:24 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Yes it has gotten worse. Even when Conway seemed that she had more control it was still bad, or at least bad if the goal was getting enough people to elect him. I guess it just really comes down to Trumps ego. His ego wants to win but he is totally unable to separate his ego from the big picture to allow himself to have an actual chance at winning. It's been going on for months but I still find it astounding to watch it play out.
posted by Jalliah at 11:26 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald likes to threaten lawsuits, but I see he still hasn't filed his suit against the Times.
It's like threatening to go and tell mom because he isn't getting his way. Trump's Razor totally applies here. Their big media event is a last-minute, cobbled-together example of what they've been doing since he started losing bigly in the debates.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:27 AM on October 22, 2016
It's like threatening to go and tell mom because he isn't getting his way. Trump's Razor totally applies here. Their big media event is a last-minute, cobbled-together example of what they've been doing since he started losing bigly in the debates.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:27 AM on October 22, 2016
He says he's going to sue all of the women who made accusations. And he's tying it to the media. If they can do that to me, they can do this to you. Your jobs, your lives, your children.
This brings to mind the MRA obsession with the idea that every woman is just looking for a man to falsely accuse of rape in order to destroy for, uh, reasons.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]
This brings to mind the MRA obsession with the idea that every woman is just looking for a man to falsely accuse of rape in order to destroy for, uh, reasons.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]
So, Trump was not only a protege of Roy Cohn's, but from that article ian1977 linked above, he was also a longtime disciple of Norman Vincent Peale's? Truly a perfect shitstorm of mid-century Americana. He's like a character out of collaborative novel by Ira Levin and James Ellroy.
posted by nikitabot at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by nikitabot at 11:28 AM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.
Gawd, yes. They all need to see Jeremy Paxman at work: Why Jeremy Paxman IS God
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Gawd, yes. They all need to see Jeremy Paxman at work: Why Jeremy Paxman IS God
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
He's like a character out of collaborative novel by Ira Levin and James Ellroy.
I'd throw a little Philip Roth in there, too. Memo to Kellyanne Conway: The Plot Against America is not a how-to manual.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'd throw a little Philip Roth in there, too. Memo to Kellyanne Conway: The Plot Against America is not a how-to manual.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.
Piers Morgan has been quiet lately.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Piers Morgan has been quiet lately.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump’s blunders are giving Republicans a roadmap to the White House in 2020
We have learned, to great horror, that O’Brien’s “Trump virus” flourishes in our body politic more than we care to imagine. Having self-immolated at a third debate, Trump seems likely to lose the race, but about 40% of the country will still vote for him on Election Day. Celebrate that if you choose, but consider this: his showing has already made presidential wannabes think through what kind of Trumpist Republican might drive that number to 51% in a future election... “Real worry is that [Trump’s] banner will be picked up by someone much smarter and more self-disciplined next time,” Fukuyama tweeted after the debate...posted by kliuless at 11:34 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
A cliche, but true: you learn more from defeat than victory. Trump having made every possible wrong step in the general, they know what not to do. The nomination process clued Republicans in on what their base really wants to hear. And the bar has been set distressingly low for a future Republican nominee’s affect and style. If you avoid grievous insults to Hispanics, African-Americans, Muslims, Gold Star families, don’t brag about pawing genitals, and don’t question the legitimacy of elections—honestly, Donald—you’ve come out ahead.
It always amazes me how bad American news interviewers are.
American cable channels should bring in a UK interviewer the next time Conway is on.
There would be nothing left but a pile of ash, which would promptly be swallowed by a vaguely glowing hole in the ground.
You're not wrong, of course, but more than a few American news anchors could do the same thing. They don't, however, because they're afraid she'll stop coming on their shows. They're afraid of losing "access." And it's a stupid fear, because if Conway (or other surrogates) stopped coming on the shows, they would lose a vital outlet for their message, so really the news networks are willingly letting the power dynamic in their relationship get reversed because they're afraid they'll fall behind the competition...except it's a competition for providing non-news and toothless interviews.
The whole thing is fucking infuriating.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:35 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
American cable channels should bring in a UK interviewer the next time Conway is on.
There would be nothing left but a pile of ash, which would promptly be swallowed by a vaguely glowing hole in the ground.
You're not wrong, of course, but more than a few American news anchors could do the same thing. They don't, however, because they're afraid she'll stop coming on their shows. They're afraid of losing "access." And it's a stupid fear, because if Conway (or other surrogates) stopped coming on the shows, they would lose a vital outlet for their message, so really the news networks are willingly letting the power dynamic in their relationship get reversed because they're afraid they'll fall behind the competition...except it's a competition for providing non-news and toothless interviews.
The whole thing is fucking infuriating.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:35 AM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
OFFICIAL - TERRY TATE MAKES AMERICA GREAT
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Ha ha ha.
Mister Bijou's link to Jeremy Paxman is worth watching for Paxman getting all up in Boris Johnson's grill at 1:30 alone.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mister Bijou's link to Jeremy Paxman is worth watching for Paxman getting all up in Boris Johnson's grill at 1:30 alone.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:36 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
You're not wrong, of course, but more than a few American news anchors could do the same thing. They don't, however, because they're afraid she'll stop coming on their shows. They're afraid of losing "access." And it's a stupid fear, because if Conway (or other surrogates) stopped coming on the shows, they would lose a vital outlet for their message, so really the news networks are willingly letting the power dynamic in their relationship get reversed because they're afraid they'll fall behind the competition...except it's a competition for providing non-news and toothless interviews.
I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though. I've also noticed that American news interviewers lack teeth, but surely people in other parts of the world can hand out the same threats of loss of access to interviewers? Why should it matter more in America? I would have thought networks here were more powerful and more capable of withstanding such threats.
posted by peacheater at 11:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though. I've also noticed that American news interviewers lack teeth, but surely people in other parts of the world can hand out the same threats of loss of access to interviewers? Why should it matter more in America? I would have thought networks here were more powerful and more capable of withstanding such threats.
posted by peacheater at 11:38 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you were worried about what Wikileaks still might have to get Clinton with, I think this tweet basically tells us they got nothing. So please send something. Quickly.
@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.
posted by chris24 at 11:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.
posted by chris24 at 11:39 AM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you avoid grievous insults to Hispanics, African-Americans, Muslims, Gold Star families, don’t brag about pawing genitals, and don’t question the legitimacy of elections—honestly, Donald—you’ve come out ahead.
On the one hand, yeah, the GOP are going to nominate a much more self-possessed and calm fascist next time. On the other hand, most of those things are what the GOP's base wants to hear anyway, so good luck appealing to the now awakened fascists without dabbling in fascism.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
On the one hand, yeah, the GOP are going to nominate a much more self-possessed and calm fascist next time. On the other hand, most of those things are what the GOP's base wants to hear anyway, so good luck appealing to the now awakened fascists without dabbling in fascism.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:40 AM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump is also falling straight into an Allred trap. Actually not falling he's saying here I am and jumping into it.
posted by Jalliah at 11:41 AM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
> I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though. I've also noticed that American news interviewers lack teeth, but surely people in other parts of the world can hand out the same threats of loss of access to interviewers? Why should it matter more in America?
That's a good question; I never thought of that. Why indeed?
posted by languagehat at 11:44 AM on October 22, 2016
That's a good question; I never thought of that. Why indeed?
posted by languagehat at 11:44 AM on October 22, 2016
As the Trump Effect filters through the classroom, a small child practices making smart choices.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 11:44 AM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]
I'm not really interested in doing it, so maybe there's the answer, but why does wikileaks not just get DOSed by crapflood of uninteresting mundane garbage? Do they really have the staff to filter out the Treaty of Westphalia or the storage to repost the entire digital content of the internet so someone else can?
posted by ctmf at 11:45 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 11:45 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump is also falling straight into an Allred trap. Actually not falling he's saying here I am and jumping into it.
I've seen one or two mentions of this...there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?
Also, unrelated, but why not: Emma Loop is following Miley Cyrus around as she door knocks for HRC at George Mason University.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:46 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've seen one or two mentions of this...there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?
Also, unrelated, but why not: Emma Loop is following Miley Cyrus around as she door knocks for HRC at George Mason University.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:46 AM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Access" is a race to the bottom -- journalists can be fierce only if they all are...
We have to hope that shifting demographics will do what the media cannot.
posted by phliar at 11:46 AM on October 22, 2016
We have to hope that shifting demographics will do what the media cannot.
posted by phliar at 11:46 AM on October 22, 2016
@mattduss: Gotta hand it to Trump. As campaign promises go, “I will immediately embroil the country in my sex scandal” is pretty outside the box.
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [77 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on October 22, 2016 [77 favorites]
there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?
Not to dismiss Allred or anything, but if you wanted to get attention for something even in the digital age, 5pm on a Saturday is the worst time I can possibly think of.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2016
Not to dismiss Allred or anything, but if you wanted to get attention for something even in the digital age, 5pm on a Saturday is the worst time I can possibly think of.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2016
I've seen one or two mentions of this...there's another Allred announcement at 5:00 p.m. ET today?
Yes there is another one today. Not sure what time, i think it may have happened already.
If you look at some of the Cosby suits she's pursuing they are defamation suits filed by 30+ women based on Cosby calling them liars.
Now we get Donald Trump, calling all the women liars, on a national stage, in the international media, calling them liars over and over and over.
She's not stupid. It's a trap.
posted by Jalliah at 11:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yes there is another one today. Not sure what time, i think it may have happened already.
If you look at some of the Cosby suits she's pursuing they are defamation suits filed by 30+ women based on Cosby calling them liars.
Now we get Donald Trump, calling all the women liars, on a national stage, in the international media, calling them liars over and over and over.
She's not stupid. It's a trap.
posted by Jalliah at 11:54 AM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Neither MSNBC or CNN is cutting their coverage. They're just letting Trump get away with this. I'm not sure why they didn't just pull the pool coverage the second they were being led on.
Remember when he punked the media into letting him to an infomercial about his hotel in DC? And the media was pissed?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:55 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not to dismiss Allred or anything, but if you wanted to get attention for something even in the digital age, 5pm on a Saturday is the worst time I can possibly think of.
These days that might be the only time to guarantee air time or attention.
posted by mazola at 11:55 AM on October 22, 2016
These days that might be the only time to guarantee air time or attention.
posted by mazola at 11:55 AM on October 22, 2016
I'm getting the impression that the old rules about slow news moments, Friday afternoon and so forth, no longer hold in these tweeting times, and that the formerly slow news times may actually be good for dropping bombshells now, as many of the chief flacks are at home trying to have some semblance of a family life, or at least to sleep.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 11:58 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
These days that might be the only time to guarantee air time or attention.
And it could also be that there are so many that she's just spacing them out time wise. Every couple of days sort of thing. *drip, drip drip*
I'm wondering if the plan is to eventually do a Cosby type thing where once there are so many they do a group thing just to make it clear. Give each their own time and then bamm, look at them all.
posted by Jalliah at 11:59 AM on October 22, 2016
And it could also be that there are so many that she's just spacing them out time wise. Every couple of days sort of thing. *drip, drip drip*
I'm wondering if the plan is to eventually do a Cosby type thing where once there are so many they do a group thing just to make it clear. Give each their own time and then bamm, look at them all.
posted by Jalliah at 11:59 AM on October 22, 2016
Piers Morgan has been quiet lately.
Not really following his adventures, but he's been yelling at british racists lately, especially certain remarkably stupid Tory MPs (some background to the latter). He also seems to be in some kind of Twitter war with India's cricket team, but that's beyond my scope of interest.
posted by effbot at 12:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not really following his adventures, but he's been yelling at british racists lately, especially certain remarkably stupid Tory MPs (some background to the latter). He also seems to be in some kind of Twitter war with India's cricket team, but that's beyond my scope of interest.
posted by effbot at 12:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess I don't understand why that applies more in the US than in other places though.
I suspect it's the existence of robust, state-funded but editorially independent media who has a mandate to do more than chase eyeballs. In Australia, you see this kind of interview mostly on the ABC. I associate the UK interviewers who do it with the BBC. There's really no US equivalent.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
I suspect it's the existence of robust, state-funded but editorially independent media who has a mandate to do more than chase eyeballs. In Australia, you see this kind of interview mostly on the ABC. I associate the UK interviewers who do it with the BBC. There's really no US equivalent.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
If you watched the Al Smith dinner, you watched Trump touch Hillary Clinton as often as he could. That creeped me out completely, and though it seem innocuous, it was a very clear statement. I own this, I am blameless, see it is polite to touch married women in a social situation, after continuously defaming them over months. I abuse, I touch, it is my privilege.
posted by Oyéah at 12:03 PM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 12:03 PM on October 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
MetaTalk: Get Yer Voting Stories Here!
posted by Wordshore at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think typically you can bury news on the weekend, but Trump doesn't know how to shut up and let it stay buried, indeed he'll be ranting and foaming at the mouth about it by Monday, keeping it fresh to start off the weekly news cycle.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 12:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.
"YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS"
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
"YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS"
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
If you were worried about what Wikileaks still might have to get Clinton with, I think this tweet basically tells us they got nothing. So please send something. Quickly.
He's busy ranting about evil Sweden and how the Rothschilds control media, so probably has no time to check the submissions.
posted by effbot at 12:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's busy ranting about evil Sweden and how the Rothschilds control media, so probably has no time to check the submissions.
posted by effbot at 12:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Tens of people at Curt Schilling's Trump Rally! Must be the weather!
posted by tonycpsu at 12:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
@wikileaks: Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.
We seeko the leakos
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
We seeko the leakos
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Nice use of the poking stick there, WaPo: Donald Trump, officially out of ideas, says he will sue his female accusers.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 12:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
So a more stupid incoming warning. Not sure when it's going to drop but James O'Keefe says he's publishing a video that proves the Clinton personally directed what happens at Trump rallies.
The next two weeks can't end soon enough...
posted by Jalliah at 12:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
CNN Panel Laughs When Trump Backer Says No Evidence to Call Him Racist
posted by kirkaracha at 12:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Things really dissolved when [panelist Symone] Sellers asked [Trump supporter Gina] Loudon to name senior black staffers advising Trump’s campaign.The clip also features Loudon claiming that Trump had nothing do with taking out full-page ads calling for the Central Park Five to be executed and then being presented with the ad.
“You named Katrina Pierson. I bet you can’t name two,” he challenged.
“I could go on all day,” Loudon replied. “Omorosa. I mean I could go on all day. I’m not going to play into your little tester—”
Lemon and the rest of the four-person panel burst into laughter, and apparently some CNN staffers did as well.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
"All of these liars will be sued after the election is over."
Why can't he sue them now?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why can't he sue them now?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
The architecture of information delivery systems would thereby be deemed critical infrastructure, and the content of the information they deliver would be monitored for quality.
This works for state-funded media; it clashes horribly with first-amendment rights of the press run by private citizens. Also, it's a technical nightmare - are Twitter and Facebook part of that critical infrastructure?
I can see a good case for state-funded and nonprofit media organizations being held to standards. I'm not sure what those standards should be - or rather, whom I'd trust to establish and enforce them. I do suspect that this, like "let's set up gun laws like the UK or Japan," is a fantasy concept even aside from 2nd amendment issues. It's impossible to implement in the US; you can't put that toothpaste back into the tube.
I could, however, see a potential economic solution - the downslide of quality journalism has been noted for years, and it'd be nice to see an organization announce, "we're going to cover that," and have serious quality journalism in several media. But that would need a lot of startup money and a lot of income for news that's not nearly as entertaining as "Trump: Douchebag or Asshat?" vs "Hillary: Threat or Menace?" articles. And whoever paid for it, there'd be massive accusations of bias and partisanship.
I'm not sure such a thing as "unbiased, objective, non-partisan news" exists, much less in the political realm. Coming up with standards for that means establishing what is considered "normal" and therefore not-newsworthy, and that usually means putting straight-white-christian-cis-men firmly in the center.
"New Baptist church opens in Arkansas" is not, by any reasonable standard, news; "new Wiccan church opens in Arkansas" may be national news. But is that pandering to Pagans by giving them attention, or pandering to Christians by normalizing them?
News media have shifted to the tumblr-esque approach of "lookit lookit lookit!" instead of analysis, in part because there's no such thing as unbiased analysis. Normally, that works tolerably well, but when one side of an issue is running on a campaign of "everyone who disagrees with me is a criminal liar," it falls apart. But I don't see any simple solution.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
This works for state-funded media; it clashes horribly with first-amendment rights of the press run by private citizens. Also, it's a technical nightmare - are Twitter and Facebook part of that critical infrastructure?
I can see a good case for state-funded and nonprofit media organizations being held to standards. I'm not sure what those standards should be - or rather, whom I'd trust to establish and enforce them. I do suspect that this, like "let's set up gun laws like the UK or Japan," is a fantasy concept even aside from 2nd amendment issues. It's impossible to implement in the US; you can't put that toothpaste back into the tube.
I could, however, see a potential economic solution - the downslide of quality journalism has been noted for years, and it'd be nice to see an organization announce, "we're going to cover that," and have serious quality journalism in several media. But that would need a lot of startup money and a lot of income for news that's not nearly as entertaining as "Trump: Douchebag or Asshat?" vs "Hillary: Threat or Menace?" articles. And whoever paid for it, there'd be massive accusations of bias and partisanship.
I'm not sure such a thing as "unbiased, objective, non-partisan news" exists, much less in the political realm. Coming up with standards for that means establishing what is considered "normal" and therefore not-newsworthy, and that usually means putting straight-white-christian-cis-men firmly in the center.
"New Baptist church opens in Arkansas" is not, by any reasonable standard, news; "new Wiccan church opens in Arkansas" may be national news. But is that pandering to Pagans by giving them attention, or pandering to Christians by normalizing them?
News media have shifted to the tumblr-esque approach of "lookit lookit lookit!" instead of analysis, in part because there's no such thing as unbiased analysis. Normally, that works tolerably well, but when one side of an issue is running on a campaign of "everyone who disagrees with me is a criminal liar," it falls apart. But I don't see any simple solution.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
> "Why can't he sue them now?"
He can't sue them now because all of his sexual assaults are being audited by the IRS, and he will release evidence for this at the appropriate time, along with other long-promised information such as a list of his creditors, the secret information from Hawaii about Obama's birth certificate, Melania's immigration documents, his medical records, and his tax returns.
posted by kyrademon at 12:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [67 favorites]
He can't sue them now because all of his sexual assaults are being audited by the IRS, and he will release evidence for this at the appropriate time, along with other long-promised information such as a list of his creditors, the secret information from Hawaii about Obama's birth certificate, Melania's immigration documents, his medical records, and his tax returns.
posted by kyrademon at 12:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [67 favorites]
@jbview: Last Gallup approval before election, outgoing two-termers:
DDE 58%
RWR 51
WJC 57
GWB 25
Today:
BHO 57
posted by chris24 at 12:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
DDE 58%
RWR 51
WJC 57
GWB 25
Today:
BHO 57
posted by chris24 at 12:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
"All of these liars will be sued after the election is over."
Why can't he sue them now?
His litigiousness is under audit. ON preview, dammit.
posted by dis_integration at 12:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why can't he sue them now?
His litigiousness is under audit. ON preview, dammit.
posted by dis_integration at 12:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump has a unique view of the Bill of Rights. Here’s how it might look under his presidency.
The president of the United States takes an oath to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.”posted by kirkaracha at 12:33 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump, who is one of two people who might take that oath next, promises to staunchly defend “Article XII” of the Constitution (there is no Article XII) while threatening to undo the fundamental principles of American democracy that are laid out in it—principles that have set us apart for the past 240 years and give us hope for a brighter future.
...
Here’s our best guess at what the Bill of Rights would look like under a Trump presidency.
Why can't he sue them now?
He's got to wait for them all to come forward first.
posted by zarq at 12:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
He's got to wait for them all to come forward first.
posted by zarq at 12:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Despite what I learned in school, I've been coming around to the view that an unbiased media is a chimera. It's impossible; bias in the context of journalism is totally subjective, so there's no way to ensure agreement in terms of what would constitute an "unbiased" news organization. It creates the situation we have now where we have competing news organizations, all of which have their house biases pitched to the segment of the market that they're targeting, but which purport to be unbiased in order to pander to those same market segments and maintain a veneer of respectability.
It also leads to false balance and false equivalency situations, and to an unwillingness to call out obvious bullshit for fear of being accused of bias. It also leads consumers to be inappropriately credulous, because the media presents itself as an arbiter of objective truth even when it is making constant editorial decisions about what to present, how much resources to devote to various topics, what the appropriate wording is when discussing things, who should be consulted to bring expert perspective to their coverage, and on and on. There's bias all right, but it's kept under the surface and we try to pretend that it doesn't exist.
What we need are news organizations that wear their biases on their sleeves. We need a media that is willing to own its bias openly, to talk about the philosophies that inform its coverage, to let us in on what its vision for the world is. Given that bias is impossible to avoid, it should at least be acknowledged so that people can calibrate their interpretations to suit rather than feeling like they're expected to take the news at face value. It would also open the door to a much more activist press, one that understands it has a duty not just to report on events in the world but to shape them as well, to discourage certain things and encourage others. This is a role that the media already plays, but they deny responsibility for it and hence it happens haphazardly and in secret rather than in an open, coordinated fashion.
The facade of objectivity puts a barrier between the news and the consumer of news, by hiding what should be put in plain sight. We need a media that acknowledges and accepts the full extent of its role in society. This chickenshit claim of "unbiasedness" has got to go.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
It also leads to false balance and false equivalency situations, and to an unwillingness to call out obvious bullshit for fear of being accused of bias. It also leads consumers to be inappropriately credulous, because the media presents itself as an arbiter of objective truth even when it is making constant editorial decisions about what to present, how much resources to devote to various topics, what the appropriate wording is when discussing things, who should be consulted to bring expert perspective to their coverage, and on and on. There's bias all right, but it's kept under the surface and we try to pretend that it doesn't exist.
What we need are news organizations that wear their biases on their sleeves. We need a media that is willing to own its bias openly, to talk about the philosophies that inform its coverage, to let us in on what its vision for the world is. Given that bias is impossible to avoid, it should at least be acknowledged so that people can calibrate their interpretations to suit rather than feeling like they're expected to take the news at face value. It would also open the door to a much more activist press, one that understands it has a duty not just to report on events in the world but to shape them as well, to discourage certain things and encourage others. This is a role that the media already plays, but they deny responsibility for it and hence it happens haphazardly and in secret rather than in an open, coordinated fashion.
The facade of objectivity puts a barrier between the news and the consumer of news, by hiding what should be put in plain sight. We need a media that acknowledges and accepts the full extent of its role in society. This chickenshit claim of "unbiasedness" has got to go.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
BTW, just in case you weren't aware, the other lawyer representing the accusers, Lisa Bloom, is Gloria Allred's daughter.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
OMG WAKE UP SHEEPLE
Some of my favorite results so far.
And apparently one of the source images it's pulling in is already a crazypants conspiracy meme that it just lays more mumbo-jumbo over. Poe's Law, you're on notice.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some of my favorite results so far.
And apparently one of the source images it's pulling in is already a crazypants conspiracy meme that it just lays more mumbo-jumbo over. Poe's Law, you're on notice.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here’s our best guess at what the Bill of Rights would look like under a Trump presidency.
Mainstream Media replaced by Twitter Trolls. Got it.
The biggest news of Trump's "First 100 Days" speech is that he has turned against Comcast. This is very good news since the 'Cast's ownership has allegedly been the reason some NBC/MSNBC people had actually been nice to Trump, because they wanted his FCC to let them become even more monopolistic. But this may result in everyone who worked on "The Apprentice" being released from their NDAs before Election Day and a the long-term benefit of preventing anybody who ever gained fame from "Reality TV" ever having any political future again! Yay!
Also notable: I don't know if he misspoke about AT&T merging with TWC or if it was just the commenters here, but the fact that Time Warner Cable and Time Warner Media had un-merged years ago without either changing names still causes confusion. TWC has already merged with Charter Cable and the AT&T deal is to acquire Time Warner, the "content producers" (HBO, Warner Bros. Studio, CNN), like Comcast acquired NBCUniversal. Which is a whole 'nother problem.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Mainstream Media replaced by Twitter Trolls. Got it.
The biggest news of Trump's "First 100 Days" speech is that he has turned against Comcast. This is very good news since the 'Cast's ownership has allegedly been the reason some NBC/MSNBC people had actually been nice to Trump, because they wanted his FCC to let them become even more monopolistic. But this may result in everyone who worked on "The Apprentice" being released from their NDAs before Election Day and a the long-term benefit of preventing anybody who ever gained fame from "Reality TV" ever having any political future again! Yay!
Also notable: I don't know if he misspoke about AT&T merging with TWC or if it was just the commenters here, but the fact that Time Warner Cable and Time Warner Media had un-merged years ago without either changing names still causes confusion. TWC has already merged with Charter Cable and the AT&T deal is to acquire Time Warner, the "content producers" (HBO, Warner Bros. Studio, CNN), like Comcast acquired NBCUniversal. Which is a whole 'nother problem.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Kellyanne wing of the Trump campaign has put out a press release with the 100 day agenda. Curiously absent are the plans to sue his accusers and direct federal regulators to target media firms he believes have wronged him. Some of the lowlights include:
Other lowlights include a tax plan that sends the deficit spiraling, building the wall on credit with Mexico to reimburse us later, a childcare tax deduction that is presumably useless if you already pay little to no federal income tax, replacing Obamacare with HSAs, and all kinds of other nonsense.
posted by zachlipton at 1:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]
SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);So in a massive and varied workforce, we can just reduce everything through attrition and I'm sure that will work out? Ignoring the vagueness of these categories, there's no chance we'll need more air traffic controllers or caretakers at the National Zoo or postal workers or census takers anytime soon?
THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;We discussed why this is stupid above.
SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forwardMany such "roadblocks" are regulations and you can't just repeal those arbitrarily on day 1.
THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary CitiesThis is not an executive power except for certain grants from Justice.
FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.What does this mean? Does "will be considered" just mean we slap the label "extreme" in front of the current visa application process and call it a day?
2. End The Offshoring Act Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.So, you mean a massive tax? On ordinary consumer products? That people depend on?
4. School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to gives parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.Yeah, because nobody's going to have a problem funding religious schools with government funds, right? And way to offer some specifics on making college more affordable. Very detailed plan. The most detailed.
8. Restoring Community Safety Act. Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a Task Force On Violent Crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.The big plan from a guy who promised to end crime on day 1 is now to get Congress to pass a law creating a task force and spending an unspecified additional amount of money on unspecified things that have something to do with the police? This is straight "crime, boy, I don't know" level leadership here.
Other lowlights include a tax plan that sends the deficit spiraling, building the wall on credit with Mexico to reimburse us later, a childcare tax deduction that is presumably useless if you already pay little to no federal income tax, replacing Obamacare with HSAs, and all kinds of other nonsense.
posted by zachlipton at 1:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [53 favorites]
The farthest point reached by Confederate forces during Pickett's Charge at the Battle of Gettysburg is often called the high-water mark of the Confederacy, as close as they came to winning the battle (and theoretically* the war).
I believe Trump's campaign and loss will be the high water mark of the Republicans trying to win the presidency by harnessing racist, populist anger. Through continuing demographic change and old people dying, the electorate in 2020 is going to be more diverse. There aren't enough angry old white people to win this election, and there will be even fewer of them in four years.
* The Confederacy would probably have lost the war even if Lee won at Gettysburg. Pickett's Charge was on July 3, 1863. The next day Vicksburg surrendered to US Grant, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River and cutting the Confederacy in half.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
I believe Trump's campaign and loss will be the high water mark of the Republicans trying to win the presidency by harnessing racist, populist anger. Through continuing demographic change and old people dying, the electorate in 2020 is going to be more diverse. There aren't enough angry old white people to win this election, and there will be even fewer of them in four years.
* The Confederacy would probably have lost the war even if Lee won at Gettysburg. Pickett's Charge was on July 3, 1863. The next day Vicksburg surrendered to US Grant, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River and cutting the Confederacy in half.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
"YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS"
"We need a non-politician, a successful outsider businessman" has been an enduring myth since at least 1980. Hopefully Trump's disaster should start to undermine that.
There is something deeply undemocratic and authoritarian (not to mention racist) underneath all of this "stop playing political games and just say what you think" rhetoric, and Trump has exposed it.
Politics is hard, damned hard. Building coalitions and including all the different groups in society, those are good things and no one should apologize for them. I also think this is somewhat gendered, at least in our current social context. Coalition building and taking care of people's feelings has been assigned to women for some reason, while being a loner asshole who breaks all the rules has been strangely celebrated.
Hopefully after this trainwreck, men who are actually considerate and women who break shit, piss people off and get stuff done become equally possible.
posted by msalt at 1:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [41 favorites]
"We need a non-politician, a successful outsider businessman" has been an enduring myth since at least 1980. Hopefully Trump's disaster should start to undermine that.
There is something deeply undemocratic and authoritarian (not to mention racist) underneath all of this "stop playing political games and just say what you think" rhetoric, and Trump has exposed it.
Politics is hard, damned hard. Building coalitions and including all the different groups in society, those are good things and no one should apologize for them. I also think this is somewhat gendered, at least in our current social context. Coalition building and taking care of people's feelings has been assigned to women for some reason, while being a loner asshole who breaks all the rules has been strangely celebrated.
Hopefully after this trainwreck, men who are actually considerate and women who break shit, piss people off and get stuff done become equally possible.
posted by msalt at 1:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [41 favorites]
"All of these liars will be sued after the election is over."
Given Trump's own record of being a liar, perhaps he feels his mountain of lies will be given a pass over the anthill of lies (that aren't lies of course) in much the same way banks will forgive millions of dollars in loans but scorch the Earth to collect $10 from someone whose been put out of their home and lives on the street.
posted by juiceCake at 1:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Given Trump's own record of being a liar, perhaps he feels his mountain of lies will be given a pass over the anthill of lies (that aren't lies of course) in much the same way banks will forgive millions of dollars in loans but scorch the Earth to collect $10 from someone whose been put out of their home and lives on the street.
posted by juiceCake at 1:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Former Ku Klux Klan leader and Assange fanboy David Duke has qualified for a televised debate
FTFY.
For those who did not wish to click through to David Duke's Twitter account, here's a post where you can see the WikiLeaks tweet that prompted David Duke's praise of Julian Assange via a Shepard Fairey-esque Assange with the word HERO instead of HOPE, and also "America owes you, bigly! Thank you and God bless you!"
I would feel like a real piece of shit if Duke was that into my work, but I suspect Assange and I may just be very different people.
posted by palindromic at 1:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
FTFY.
For those who did not wish to click through to David Duke's Twitter account, here's a post where you can see the WikiLeaks tweet that prompted David Duke's praise of Julian Assange via a Shepard Fairey-esque Assange with the word HERO instead of HOPE, and also "America owes you, bigly! Thank you and God bless you!"
I would feel like a real piece of shit if Duke was that into my work, but I suspect Assange and I may just be very different people.
posted by palindromic at 1:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
The farthest point reached by Confederate forces during Pickett's Charge at the Battle of Gettysburg is often called the high-water mark of the Confederacy, as close as they came to winning the battle (and theoretically* the war).
I believe Trump's campaign and loss will be the high water mark of the Republicans trying to win the presidency by harnessing racist, populist anger. Through continuing demographic change and old people dying, the electorate in 2020 is going to be more diverse. There aren't enough angry old white people to win this election, and there will be even fewer of them in four years.
Dixieland:
"I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine...
And I damn all gentlemen
Whose only worth is their father's name
And the sweat of a workin' man
Well we come from the farms
And the city streets and a hundred foreign lands
And we spilled our blood in the battle's heat
Now we're all Americans."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
I believe Trump's campaign and loss will be the high water mark of the Republicans trying to win the presidency by harnessing racist, populist anger. Through continuing demographic change and old people dying, the electorate in 2020 is going to be more diverse. There aren't enough angry old white people to win this election, and there will be even fewer of them in four years.
Dixieland:
"I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine...
And I damn all gentlemen
Whose only worth is their father's name
And the sweat of a workin' man
Well we come from the farms
And the city streets and a hundred foreign lands
And we spilled our blood in the battle's heat
Now we're all Americans."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward.Yes. The vital Canadian infrastructure project that would allow them to move shale oil, extracted by environmentally devastating means, through the US to be refined and sold to other countries in a way that US oil companies are still prohibited from doing. I love my brothers and sisters just a few miles to the north, but no thanks.
posted by xyzzy at 1:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I love my brothers and sisters just a few miles to the north, but no thanks.
Hey now. A bunch of us Canadians don't think it's such a great idea, either.
But your point absolutely stands.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
Hey now. A bunch of us Canadians don't think it's such a great idea, either.
But your point absolutely stands.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 1:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also notable: I don't know if he misspoke about AT&T merging with TWC
But Spectrum just bought TWC?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2016
But Spectrum just bought TWC?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2016
Spy: How Much Patriotic Crap Can We Order Poolside at Trump's Vegas Hotel?
SPY 1: We're just trying to have a real American party here. Is there like an American flag around?posted by kirkaracha at 1:39 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Waiter: I can look.
SPY 1: Thank you very much.
Our waiter returns with five miniature American flags. The plastic white sticks say "MADE IN CHINA."
SPY 1: Thank you!
AM Joy had an analyst on this morning who had a more nuanced explanation of the Murphy funding withdrawal. He's currently within 2 points of Rubio and the idea is that his only chance is to be carried on a Clinton wave, so individually funding his campaign is a waste of resources that could be better spent on top ticket GOTV and advertising.
On preview: Spectrum bought TWC, but the media arm that owns CNN and friends is on the block.
posted by xyzzy at 1:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
On preview: Spectrum bought TWC, but the media arm that owns CNN and friends is on the block.
posted by xyzzy at 1:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
apologies if this eerily prescient Onion bit from (almost) four years ago has already been posted ...
After Obama Victory, Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage Early GOP Front-Runner For 2016
posted by philip-random at 1:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [52 favorites]
After Obama Victory, Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage Early GOP Front-Runner For 2016
posted by philip-random at 1:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [52 favorites]
He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.
I thought 'hee hee' And not that didn't believe you I wondered who else heard this. So I searched 'trump boners' on Twitter and it's pretty funny. "Did I hear that right?"... "I think I just heard big boners has this election driven me around the bend?"
posted by Jalliah at 1:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought 'hee hee' And not that didn't believe you I wondered who else heard this. So I searched 'trump boners' on Twitter and it's pretty funny. "Did I hear that right?"... "I think I just heard big boners has this election driven me around the bend?"
posted by Jalliah at 1:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because of course he was.
Lobbyist-bashing Trump was once a lobbyist
"Before Donald Trump proposed new restrictions on lobbyists, he was one.
Trump was a registered lobbyist in Rhode Island from April 2006 through the end of that year, according to state records reviewed by POLITICO.
The businessman was registered to lobby on behalf of Trump Entertainment Resorts Holdings, the casino operator in which he was then a minority shareholder, and received $4,000 per month for the work, according to state records."
posted by chris24 at 1:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lobbyist-bashing Trump was once a lobbyist
"Before Donald Trump proposed new restrictions on lobbyists, he was one.
Trump was a registered lobbyist in Rhode Island from April 2006 through the end of that year, according to state records reviewed by POLITICO.
The businessman was registered to lobby on behalf of Trump Entertainment Resorts Holdings, the casino operator in which he was then a minority shareholder, and received $4,000 per month for the work, according to state records."
posted by chris24 at 1:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.Schadenfreudian slip.
posted by jferg at 1:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Does "will be considered" just mean we slap the label "extreme" in front of the current visa application process and call it a day?
Look, do you want pre-teens from the 90's to find immigration exciting, or not?
posted by jackbishop at 1:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
Look, do you want pre-teens from the 90's to find immigration exciting, or not?
posted by jackbishop at 1:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
He literally just said "we're going to take on big boners." I rewinded and watched it 3 times.
Schadenfreudian slip.
So! They laugh at my boner, will they?! I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners The Joker can make!
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Schadenfreudian slip.
So! They laugh at my boner, will they?! I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners The Joker can make!
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
In my affluent suburb of Seattle, a handful of Trump * Pence signs have sprung up in the last few days. They look decidedly amateurish. Meanwhile, our Republican state rep is sending out flyers touting how "progressive" he is. The most recent one actually says "#NeverTrump" on it.
posted by Slothrup at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Slothrup at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
phillip-random, my favorite bit at the end of the Shrieking White-Hot Ball of Rage clip is the chyron at the very end that says "Hillary Clinton says she has 'not ruled out' a run in 2016; orb instantly quadruples in size."
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [42 favorites]
I'm not really interested in doing it, so maybe there's the answer, but why does wikileaks not just get DOSed by crapflood of uninteresting mundane garbage? Do they really have the staff to filter out the Treaty of Westphalia or the storage to repost the entire digital content of the internet so someone else can?
Maybe their russian handlers keep using the same email address as the last time to let them know they've uploaded yetmorepoorlysecuredemails.tar.gz to the server.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe their russian handlers keep using the same email address as the last time to let them know they've uploaded yetmorepoorlysecuredemails.tar.gz to the server.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mousa Abusaif, 20, tells Miley [Cyrus] that Trump tried to have him fired from his Washington country club.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's so weird it needs a [real] tag. What the hell, 2016?
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Gloria Allred can barely hold back her smile as she describes all the lawsuits she can now file, and all the people who have offered to help pay the accusers' legal fees.
"Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Trump."
I like her.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
"Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Trump."
I like her.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
It's about how these politically conservative converts are borrowing the cultural capital of American Catholicism as more socially acceptable and normal, or at least closer to WASP
e.g. Newt Gingrich, who had two marriages ended by his adultery wiped off the slate so that he could convert. (That's a hilarious headline, and sallybrown's "cosplay Catholicism" is a wonderful phrase.)
American Catholicism is in generational transition now, with a hierarchy of "white ethnic" bishops, a middle-aged congregation that includes both suburban conservatives and those with Jesuit backgrounds and/or exposed to liberation theology, and a rapidly-growing group that treats the 12th of December as the biggest feast day outside of the holy days of obligation and not the 17th of March.
(I got to see a version of the class/politics breakdown in the UK, comparing the working-class immigrant-built parishes of my industrial home town to the posher and more conservative Oratory / Cardinal Newman parishes of my university days.)
posted by holgate at 2:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
e.g. Newt Gingrich, who had two marriages ended by his adultery wiped off the slate so that he could convert. (That's a hilarious headline, and sallybrown's "cosplay Catholicism" is a wonderful phrase.)
American Catholicism is in generational transition now, with a hierarchy of "white ethnic" bishops, a middle-aged congregation that includes both suburban conservatives and those with Jesuit backgrounds and/or exposed to liberation theology, and a rapidly-growing group that treats the 12th of December as the biggest feast day outside of the holy days of obligation and not the 17th of March.
(I got to see a version of the class/politics breakdown in the UK, comparing the working-class immigrant-built parishes of my industrial home town to the posher and more conservative Oratory / Cardinal Newman parishes of my university days.)
posted by holgate at 2:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
11th accuser: Adult performer & director Jessica Drake accusing Trump of sexual assault: "I am a feminist & advocate for LGBT & sex workers."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm sure Trump will be measured and completely non-insulting in his response to Jessica Drake.
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
11th accuser is adult film star and sex education advocate Jessica Drake. When she turned him down he said, "What do you want? How much?"
He offered her 10k and the use of his private plane.
She's come forward in support of the other women and because of Trump's misogyny.
This is amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]
He offered her 10k and the use of his private plane.
She's come forward in support of the other women and because of Trump's misogyny.
This is amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [68 favorites]
That was really powerful. "I may be but a grain of sand, but clearly this is an enormous beach."
posted by Room 641-A at 2:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 2:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]
Jessica Drake might be a fucking badass.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 2:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
just a warning, googling Jessica Drake is a decidedly NSFW venture. I admire her courage. Sex workers and pornographic performers face extra resistance to assault claims
posted by dis_integration at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
2006, after his third marriage.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I can neither confirm nor deny that I didn't have to google Jessica Drake.
posted by Justinian at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Gloria Allred giving the press a mini-seminar on consent.
It is so very weird to feel happy, watching this, and yet holy shit! A sex worker has star powered representation and is able to come forward to make an accusation against the Republican nominee? Without apologizing for her work, and while explicitly talking about consent?
That is amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [102 favorites]
It is so very weird to feel happy, watching this, and yet holy shit! A sex worker has star powered representation and is able to come forward to make an accusation against the Republican nominee? Without apologizing for her work, and while explicitly talking about consent?
That is amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [102 favorites]
> He can't sue them now because all of his sexual assaults are being audited by the IRS, and he will release evidence for this at the appropriate time, along with other long-promised information such as a list of his creditors, the secret information from Hawaii about Obama's birth certificate, Melania's immigration documents, his medical records, and his tax returns.
Please, people, remember your [fake] tags! It's the 2016 election and all bets are off!
posted by languagehat at 2:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Please, people, remember your [fake] tags! It's the 2016 election and all bets are off!
posted by languagehat at 2:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Mousa Abusaif, 20, tells Miley [Cyrus] that Trump tried to have him fired from his Washington country club.
I feel the scriptwriters for 2016 just aren't even trying anymore.
posted by tavella at 2:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I feel the scriptwriters for 2016 just aren't even trying anymore.
posted by tavella at 2:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
James O'Keefe says he's publishing a video that proves the Clinton personally directed what happens at Trump rallies
If he had proof he would've led with that. Although it's possible he may be attempting a rope-a-dope with his first video release, provoking a strong denial from the Clinton campaign that could be contradicted by his upcoming clip. Clinton did in fact respond, "I know nothing about this." If his second video indicates that she did know about Foval's scheme, even if she was completely opposed to it, being caught in a lie could prove damaging.
posted by xigxag at 2:27 PM on October 22, 2016
If he had proof he would've led with that. Although it's possible he may be attempting a rope-a-dope with his first video release, provoking a strong denial from the Clinton campaign that could be contradicted by his upcoming clip. Clinton did in fact respond, "I know nothing about this." If his second video indicates that she did know about Foval's scheme, even if she was completely opposed to it, being caught in a lie could prove damaging.
posted by xigxag at 2:27 PM on October 22, 2016
Regardless of what O'Keefe shows, his dishonest editing casts everything in doubt. Trump's supporters will buy it hook, line, and sinker. But responsible journalists seem to just dismiss Project Veritas as a matter of course. This is what happens when you poison the well and cry wolf.
posted by xyzzy at 2:33 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 2:33 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Whelp I'm guessing that Jessica Drake may be one of the woman the Republican strategy guy was referencing in a tweet a number of days ago. I can't remember which one it was. Does anyone? It may have been posted here.
It was in reference to Trump using the 'look at them, I wouldn't touch them cause they're not attractive' defense. The strategy guy said something along the lines of this 'just remember this and wait, you'll see".
posted by Jalliah at 2:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Republican strategist and NeverTrumper Rick Wilson:
@TheRickWilson
"Remember this story. Soon.
Trump's Atty : His sexual assault accusers 'aren't even women he'd be attracted to'"
posted by chris24 at 2:37 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
@TheRickWilson
"Remember this story. Soon.
Trump's Atty : His sexual assault accusers 'aren't even women he'd be attracted to'"
posted by chris24 at 2:37 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
If O'Keefe had as good an editor as Weird Al (and his Songified Debate is awesome), the most damning thing he could cook up would be Hillary 'saying': "I want you people to infiltrate the crowd and lead cheers of 'LOCK HER UP'".
in honor of today's semi-holiday: "CAPSLOCK HER UP"
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
in honor of today's semi-holiday: "CAPSLOCK HER UP"
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
By announcing that he will sue these women after the election is he admitting that he knows he will lose the election, or is he planning on filing these lawsuits as president?
posted by Room 641-A at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing not this Jessica Drake.
No. This one. Jessica Drake wikipedia (SFW)
posted by Jalliah at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
No. This one. Jessica Drake wikipedia (SFW)
posted by Jalliah at 2:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
He wants to wait til they all come forward so it can be a reverse class action?
posted by ian1977 at 2:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
(Sorry, that was needlessly rhetorical. I think he knows he is going to lose.)
posted by Room 641-A at 2:45 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 2:45 PM on October 22, 2016
is he planning on filing these lawsuits as president?
He's assuming he can, just after he appoints the judges to hear the cases. Because he is More Than Fascist, he's Trumpist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
He's assuming he can, just after he appoints the judges to hear the cases. Because he is More Than Fascist, he's Trumpist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
He isn't going to sue jack. He's a bully and a coward.
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
...but once he gets Ultimate Power over everybody as SuperPresident, then he'll do everything he ever wanted.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
He isn't going to sue jack. He's a bully and a coward.
but throwing around malicious lawsuits is precisely what bullying cowards do
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
but throwing around malicious lawsuits is precisely what bullying cowards do
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Since she's a sex worker, can we assume that Trump and fans are about to crank up their misogyny to unprecedented levels?
posted by Yowser at 3:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 3:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Since she's a sex worker, can we assume that Trump and fans are about to crank up their misogyny to unprecedented levels?
How close will Trump and the surrogates coming to using the word "whore" without actually saying it.
posted by Talez at 3:24 PM on October 22, 2016
How close will Trump and the surrogates coming to using the word "whore" without actually saying it.
posted by Talez at 3:24 PM on October 22, 2016
What are you talking about? Of course they'll say it. By Tuesday.
posted by LionIndex at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]
I would bet a piping hot pizza that either he or one of his surrogates will call her just that before this is all over.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Since she's a sex worker, can we assume that Trump and fans are about to crank up their misogyny to unprecedented levels?
Yes. With the added bonus that there are some fans that know who this woman is. So we may get some interesting cognative dissonance stuff going on as well.
posted by Jalliah at 3:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yes. With the added bonus that there are some fans that know who this woman is. So we may get some interesting cognative dissonance stuff going on as well.
posted by Jalliah at 3:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm not aware of a stimulus that doesn't crank their misogyny up?
Actually, and this is genuinely deplorable even though I have no love for her, but Kellyanne Conway probably has to take her personal safety from stochastic misogynistic violence into consideration as part of her jumping-ship calculus. And while she deserves a lot of things, she doesn't deserve that.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:29 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Actually, and this is genuinely deplorable even though I have no love for her, but Kellyanne Conway probably has to take her personal safety from stochastic misogynistic violence into consideration as part of her jumping-ship calculus. And while she deserves a lot of things, she doesn't deserve that.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:29 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
That alt-right conspiracy generator just captured my feelings over the past few months pretty accurately.
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
SFW [no nude/porn images, though discusses the assault (unwanted kissing), proposition and Drake's career] article about Jessica Drake's accusation. Has a photo of Drake & Allred with Allred holding a photo of Trump & Drake at a 2006 Lake Tahoe, CA golf tournament.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Daffy Donald: Ha! That’s it! Hold it right there! (Pronoun trouble!) It’s not that I don’t have sue YOU now, it’s YOU don’t have to sue ME now! Well I say you DO have to sue me now! SO SUE ME NOW!
posted by SPrintF at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't know where else to post this, and it's tangentially election-related so here goes.
I was driving around today and started skipping through AM radio stations to check the pulse of the local branch of the conservative industrial complex (I live in the deep south). I recognized a voice from my childhood on the air and realized it was a friend of the family from way back. I had heard that he had gotten some air time on a local radio station but I had never actually heard his show before (let's call him Mark). For a laugh, I figured that I'd call in and antagonize him a bit. We had always had a jovial relationship in the past. He was close friends with my recently deceased father and they always had polite but good-natured political/religious arguments. My father was the type to not get involved in anything political, while Mark was a silent-majority Limbaugh Republican from way back.
By the time I finally got through to the radio show, I only had a few minutes to talk, so we agreed that I would call him back on his personal line and we would catch up.
So I did and boy was it something. I didn't bring up any leftist ideas (I lean towards the Hillary-hating hardcore Left), but just the idea that I was not voting for Trump sent him into conniptions. He called me an idiot, told me I was insane, said he was ashamed of me, and spewed all kinds of vitriol and hate. This was directed at me, not my ideas. I was a devious, devil-worshiping, baby-killing person because I wasn't supporting Trump. He yelled and screamed and cursed until I was almost to the point of tears. Then, he put his son on the phone.
His 18 year-old son (let's call him James) began to eviscerate me in the same way that his father did. His son said that he always looked up to me in the past (I'm ten years older than him and had been his Sunday School teacher at one point) , but now he couldn't believe what a filthy disgusting Democrat I was. I kept trying to ask him about his life and what was going on but he kept up with the vitriol.
Eventually, I pulled out of him that he joined the Army last week and ships out for basic training in a few weeks. He railed about Hillary's hawkishness and since we found something to agree on, he calmed down and we began to talk.
He began to tell me what a terrible person he was and all the horrible things that he had done. (his words, not mine. This kind of self-hating guilt is common in conservative Christian circles). He told me about his intravenous drug use (that his parents didn't know about) and the fact that he curses and sometimes hates God for his poor family life (he was adopted out of even-worse circumstances).
He told me that he originally was unkind to me on the phone because his Dad was around but that he didn't agree with his Dad on all the issues, specifically Gay people. He asked me what I thought about Gays and I told him (but not revealing that I'm Bi) and he said he doesn't have any problem with them. Then, he asked me what I thought about Furries. Thankfully, I didn't poke fun because he admitted that he likes to dress up like a furry with his girlfriend when he can sneak away at night.
He recounted a story about when the Army recruitment officer told him that officers couldn't fraternize with enlisted men and he responded "I'm too ugly for you guys anyways" and they all laughed. (yes, I think he may have same-sex desires).
Then, he opened up about his life that he hates. He lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere and joined the army because he said he was too dumb to go to school (he has a GED). He said that he hates his life and that no matter who gets elected he's going to die in a war soon anyways.
He doesn't have a cell phone but he has my number and he promised to call me when he gets a phone next week. I think he just needs someone to talk to. I haven't been in his exact situation, but I know what he's going through. I'm trying to be a friend to him, so I guess we'll see where it goes. Hopefully we can connect and he can breathe some fresh air, but I'm not holding my breath, most people don't make it out.
Normally I'm the one that is snarky about all these too-convenient-to-be-true Liberal feel-good stories like "my kid said that trump is bad" etc. But man I'm so sick of the hatred and intolerance that I just want to fucking scream. It's exhausting to just be myself (white, male-presenting, queer, and liberal) in this environment and the fact that it's even worse for most people is too much to bear.
I didn't know where else to post this, but I needed to share it with someone. I'm not sure what the relevant take-away is (of if there is one) but holy shit was it devastating.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 3:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [236 favorites]
I was driving around today and started skipping through AM radio stations to check the pulse of the local branch of the conservative industrial complex (I live in the deep south). I recognized a voice from my childhood on the air and realized it was a friend of the family from way back. I had heard that he had gotten some air time on a local radio station but I had never actually heard his show before (let's call him Mark). For a laugh, I figured that I'd call in and antagonize him a bit. We had always had a jovial relationship in the past. He was close friends with my recently deceased father and they always had polite but good-natured political/religious arguments. My father was the type to not get involved in anything political, while Mark was a silent-majority Limbaugh Republican from way back.
By the time I finally got through to the radio show, I only had a few minutes to talk, so we agreed that I would call him back on his personal line and we would catch up.
So I did and boy was it something. I didn't bring up any leftist ideas (I lean towards the Hillary-hating hardcore Left), but just the idea that I was not voting for Trump sent him into conniptions. He called me an idiot, told me I was insane, said he was ashamed of me, and spewed all kinds of vitriol and hate. This was directed at me, not my ideas. I was a devious, devil-worshiping, baby-killing person because I wasn't supporting Trump. He yelled and screamed and cursed until I was almost to the point of tears. Then, he put his son on the phone.
His 18 year-old son (let's call him James) began to eviscerate me in the same way that his father did. His son said that he always looked up to me in the past (I'm ten years older than him and had been his Sunday School teacher at one point) , but now he couldn't believe what a filthy disgusting Democrat I was. I kept trying to ask him about his life and what was going on but he kept up with the vitriol.
Eventually, I pulled out of him that he joined the Army last week and ships out for basic training in a few weeks. He railed about Hillary's hawkishness and since we found something to agree on, he calmed down and we began to talk.
He began to tell me what a terrible person he was and all the horrible things that he had done. (his words, not mine. This kind of self-hating guilt is common in conservative Christian circles). He told me about his intravenous drug use (that his parents didn't know about) and the fact that he curses and sometimes hates God for his poor family life (he was adopted out of even-worse circumstances).
He told me that he originally was unkind to me on the phone because his Dad was around but that he didn't agree with his Dad on all the issues, specifically Gay people. He asked me what I thought about Gays and I told him (but not revealing that I'm Bi) and he said he doesn't have any problem with them. Then, he asked me what I thought about Furries. Thankfully, I didn't poke fun because he admitted that he likes to dress up like a furry with his girlfriend when he can sneak away at night.
He recounted a story about when the Army recruitment officer told him that officers couldn't fraternize with enlisted men and he responded "I'm too ugly for you guys anyways" and they all laughed. (yes, I think he may have same-sex desires).
Then, he opened up about his life that he hates. He lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere and joined the army because he said he was too dumb to go to school (he has a GED). He said that he hates his life and that no matter who gets elected he's going to die in a war soon anyways.
He doesn't have a cell phone but he has my number and he promised to call me when he gets a phone next week. I think he just needs someone to talk to. I haven't been in his exact situation, but I know what he's going through. I'm trying to be a friend to him, so I guess we'll see where it goes. Hopefully we can connect and he can breathe some fresh air, but I'm not holding my breath, most people don't make it out.
Normally I'm the one that is snarky about all these too-convenient-to-be-true Liberal feel-good stories like "my kid said that trump is bad" etc. But man I'm so sick of the hatred and intolerance that I just want to fucking scream. It's exhausting to just be myself (white, male-presenting, queer, and liberal) in this environment and the fact that it's even worse for most people is too much to bear.
I didn't know where else to post this, but I needed to share it with someone. I'm not sure what the relevant take-away is (of if there is one) but holy shit was it devastating.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 3:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [236 favorites]
Oh dear. It looks like there may be more to this story.
It's possible tabloidy gossip but part of it does provide some corroboration to Drakes story. Plus the added bonus that the story is actually about a rumored affair with another woman that may be one of the ones with Drake. The outfit in the Clifford photo apparently appears to be the same one in the photo that Allred had.
Though Trump finished in the tournament’s lower reaches, the weekend was not a total loss. While the billionaire’s wife was at home with the couple’s four-month-old son, Trump struck up an acquaintance with a female celebrity who did not tee off, but rather worked the event.
In a gifting suite stocked with freebies for the celebrity golfers, Trump met Stephanie Clifford, a porn actress known professionally as “Stormy Daniels.” Clifford, 27 at the time, had appeared in scores of X-rated films and, owing to her status as a “contract girl” with Wicked Pictures, was a household name in the adult film industry.
As part of her deal with Wicked, Clifford would occasionally make promotional appearances on behalf of the film studio, which had launched the career of Jenna Jameson. At the Lake Tahoe tournament, Clifford (and fellow actress Jessica Drake) greeted players, sponsors, and tournament officials at a booth stocked with Wicked swag.
posted by Jalliah at 3:50 PM on October 22, 2016
Win win for America I say.
I was talking with another Mefite about how there are two levels I see for "what's good for America", and on how on one axis, Hillary Clinton and I actually agree.
The first level, that agreement level, is that we want the country to not actively be on fire. We want the government to be functioning on at least a minimal level, no revolution in the streets, no roving gangs harassing POC, etc. We want the country to just kind of work, which is Good For America.
Then there's the second level, the policy level. Here we differ. We each want a different "Good For America" policy layout of changes. But the thing is - both of those second levels are predicated on the first. You can't get to solidly pushing either conservative or liberal aims when the country is on fire. The country needs to be relatively stable first.
So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.
But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.
I could be wrong, but I believe in my heart that at least a substantial portion of Democrats wouldn't be willing to let the country be set on fire just to get their policies passed. I wish it were all of them.
posted by corb at 3:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [46 favorites]
I was talking with another Mefite about how there are two levels I see for "what's good for America", and on how on one axis, Hillary Clinton and I actually agree.
The first level, that agreement level, is that we want the country to not actively be on fire. We want the government to be functioning on at least a minimal level, no revolution in the streets, no roving gangs harassing POC, etc. We want the country to just kind of work, which is Good For America.
Then there's the second level, the policy level. Here we differ. We each want a different "Good For America" policy layout of changes. But the thing is - both of those second levels are predicated on the first. You can't get to solidly pushing either conservative or liberal aims when the country is on fire. The country needs to be relatively stable first.
So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.
But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.
I could be wrong, but I believe in my heart that at least a substantial portion of Democrats wouldn't be willing to let the country be set on fire just to get their policies passed. I wish it were all of them.
posted by corb at 3:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [46 favorites]
On a lighter note...
REPORTER: Mr. President, what's your favorite Wu Tang album?
OBAMA: What kind of question is --
[biden grabs podium]
BIDEN: LIQUID SWORDS
posted by chaoticgood at 3:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [98 favorites]
REPORTER: Mr. President, what's your favorite Wu Tang album?
OBAMA: What kind of question is --
[biden grabs podium]
BIDEN: LIQUID SWORDS
posted by chaoticgood at 3:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [98 favorites]
Who gives a crap what democrats wish tho? We have no effect on these folks, at least not en masse. It on you corb, and your fellow rational republicans, to convince the deplorables to come back to reality. We have a country to run.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.
I hope to hell this happens but I remember Obama's first two years and the foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling. I'm all but praying that Schumer and Pelosi have a plan, and the discipline, to ram through what needs to passed. The obstructionists on the right aren't going to let up. Fuck them. This is not a time to hope for compromise. Obama tried that. McConnell and Ryan have given us nothing for eight years. It's time to kick them in the balls and take names. The window is going to be a couple years at best so they'd better hit the ground running. Fuck them.
posted by Ber at 4:03 PM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
I hope to hell this happens but I remember Obama's first two years and the foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling. I'm all but praying that Schumer and Pelosi have a plan, and the discipline, to ram through what needs to passed. The obstructionists on the right aren't going to let up. Fuck them. This is not a time to hope for compromise. Obama tried that. McConnell and Ryan have given us nothing for eight years. It's time to kick them in the balls and take names. The window is going to be a couple years at best so they'd better hit the ground running. Fuck them.
posted by Ber at 4:03 PM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
So it's understandable that Democrats are enjoying the GOP in moderate chaos. Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.
Maybe some people are but I sure as hell don't enjoy it. A few states have already been destroyed for a generation, another dozen are about to plunge into the abyss. The federal government is gridlocked so we can't even save people at a federal level. There are millions of poor people, POC, LGBT who are going to struggle to tread water over the next decade and more than a few are going to drown. I'm not gleefully enjoying the GOP in its chaos because the chaos is the lunatics operating the asylum right now and we're watching flyover country vote to cut its nose off to spite its face.
I mean it's easy to write it off as "you did it to yourself" but there's a whole bunch of people who didn't vote for libertarian dystopia and can't afford to get out.
posted by Talez at 4:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]
Maybe some people are but I sure as hell don't enjoy it. A few states have already been destroyed for a generation, another dozen are about to plunge into the abyss. The federal government is gridlocked so we can't even save people at a federal level. There are millions of poor people, POC, LGBT who are going to struggle to tread water over the next decade and more than a few are going to drown. I'm not gleefully enjoying the GOP in its chaos because the chaos is the lunatics operating the asylum right now and we're watching flyover country vote to cut its nose off to spite its face.
I mean it's easy to write it off as "you did it to yourself" but there's a whole bunch of people who didn't vote for libertarian dystopia and can't afford to get out.
posted by Talez at 4:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]
I'm not sure what the relevant take-away is (of if there is one) but holy shit was it devastating.
That despite all of our differences, we're human and deserve respect. Thanks for sharing your story.
posted by Fizz at 4:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
That despite all of our differences, we're human and deserve respect. Thanks for sharing your story.
posted by Fizz at 4:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Moderate chaos means the country isn't on fire, and they can achieve their aims without resistance.
But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.
I agree that it would be horrible for the Trumpist right to attain a permanent foothold in American politics. I'm not sure the long-term damage they could inflict on women, people of color, our national discourse, and the fabric of our society would be worth any electoral benefit. But I think something you're missing, corb, is that for most Democrats, the Republican obstructionism and rapacious state-level governance over the last eight years was itself country-on-fire chaos. If the Republicans are too weak and splintered to effectively oppose the Democrats, we can actually do something to put out those fires that the Republicans left smoldering or deliberately started.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [46 favorites]
But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.
I agree that it would be horrible for the Trumpist right to attain a permanent foothold in American politics. I'm not sure the long-term damage they could inflict on women, people of color, our national discourse, and the fabric of our society would be worth any electoral benefit. But I think something you're missing, corb, is that for most Democrats, the Republican obstructionism and rapacious state-level governance over the last eight years was itself country-on-fire chaos. If the Republicans are too weak and splintered to effectively oppose the Democrats, we can actually do something to put out those fires that the Republicans left smoldering or deliberately started.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [46 favorites]
foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling
note that this was entirely in the Senate, where there were lots of Democratic senators in "red" states, Senators not enjoying their offices very much longer.
Legislation would have been much different if it only had had to go through Pelosi's majority 2009-2010.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 4:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
note that this was entirely in the Senate, where there were lots of Democratic senators in "red" states, Senators not enjoying their offices very much longer.
Legislation would have been much different if it only had had to go through Pelosi's majority 2009-2010.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 4:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos
they never left; they spent the '68 -'72 period voting Wallace etc. and then were welcomed into the GOP.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/12/12/lott-apologizes-for-remark.html
Waco, Ruby Ridge, OKC bombing, "DittoHeads", FNC -- the insanity of the right has always been with us (even when it was hosted in the old-timey Democratic Party in the 50s and earlier).
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 4:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
they never left; they spent the '68 -'72 period voting Wallace etc. and then were welcomed into the GOP.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/12/12/lott-apologizes-for-remark.html
Waco, Ruby Ridge, OKC bombing, "DittoHeads", FNC -- the insanity of the right has always been with us (even when it was hosted in the old-timey Democratic Party in the 50s and earlier).
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 4:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm so proud of Jessica Drake. The courage to come forward dispite the judgement for her job, and activism is hugely brave.
It is also a powerful reminder to everyone that it doesn't matter about your past, that sexual assault is assault.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]
It is also a powerful reminder to everyone that it doesn't matter about your past, that sexual assault is assault.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:16 PM on October 22, 2016 [58 favorites]
If the Republicans are too weak and splintered to effectively oppose the Democrats, we can actually do something to put out those fires that the Republicans left smoldering or deliberately started.
But the thing is, the Republicans have quietly set things up for themselves so well that less than half the country can still vote in a branch of government that, while not actively trying to further Trumpism, is quietly complicit in others furthering Trumpism's goals or stopping Trumpism's enemies in order to not attract attention and be "Cantored" out of government.
2018 we're mostly fucked. Post-2018, Hillary will be a bulwark against all the crazy Trumpist shit congressional Rs keep trying to push down the pipeline. Then we fight another crazy fucking war in 2020 in an attempt to keep that final bulwark standing because there sure as hell isn't any other conceivable way to stop it.
The next decade is not going to be fun.
posted by Talez at 4:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
But the thing is, the Republicans have quietly set things up for themselves so well that less than half the country can still vote in a branch of government that, while not actively trying to further Trumpism, is quietly complicit in others furthering Trumpism's goals or stopping Trumpism's enemies in order to not attract attention and be "Cantored" out of government.
2018 we're mostly fucked. Post-2018, Hillary will be a bulwark against all the crazy Trumpist shit congressional Rs keep trying to push down the pipeline. Then we fight another crazy fucking war in 2020 in an attempt to keep that final bulwark standing because there sure as hell isn't any other conceivable way to stop it.
The next decade is not going to be fun.
posted by Talez at 4:26 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us.
Called it back in Feb.- "My theory is that he's going to quietly use a bunch of State dept. agencies, front companies, and so forth to deliver the necessary funds to the corresponding Mexican government organizations, maybe cut some backroom deals, and then publicly claim victory. No one look closely at the sudden increase in foreign aid to Mexico for that fiscal year!"
That's right, the man is such a con artist he's not even going to work hard to execute the central plank of his xenophobic populist platform.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Called it back in Feb.- "My theory is that he's going to quietly use a bunch of State dept. agencies, front companies, and so forth to deliver the necessary funds to the corresponding Mexican government organizations, maybe cut some backroom deals, and then publicly claim victory. No one look closely at the sudden increase in foreign aid to Mexico for that fiscal year!"
That's right, the man is such a con artist he's not even going to work hard to execute the central plank of his xenophobic populist platform.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Does anyone recall a comment that was posted in one of the election threads, regarding how we understand the bigotry of those close to us in a different way from those distant from us?
I think it's about how we tend to see the bigotry of familiar people as one piece in a larger whole and contextualize it (and I'm sure tend to excuse it away, on the flip side). I was thinking about that with respect to my reaction to American bigots vs. Indian bigots. I think because in this country, I don't have many friends who are bigoted, and have no extended family, I don't really run into people in real life (except unknowingly of course), who are bigoted and feel free to tell me about their bigotry. So for me Trump supporters seem very scary and crazy and ununderstandable. Whereas this recent Trump-Hindu event reminds me that I know plenty of bigots in India, some quite anti-Muslim. And while I'll still get into slanging matches with them on Facebook, I still run into them on social occasions and somehow survive. And their bigotry is of a kind that I understand. Not excuse, but I do get where they come from.
Which is a long-winded way of saying - if anyone could point me to that comment, I would be very grateful.
posted by peacheater at 4:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think it's about how we tend to see the bigotry of familiar people as one piece in a larger whole and contextualize it (and I'm sure tend to excuse it away, on the flip side). I was thinking about that with respect to my reaction to American bigots vs. Indian bigots. I think because in this country, I don't have many friends who are bigoted, and have no extended family, I don't really run into people in real life (except unknowingly of course), who are bigoted and feel free to tell me about their bigotry. So for me Trump supporters seem very scary and crazy and ununderstandable. Whereas this recent Trump-Hindu event reminds me that I know plenty of bigots in India, some quite anti-Muslim. And while I'll still get into slanging matches with them on Facebook, I still run into them on social occasions and somehow survive. And their bigotry is of a kind that I understand. Not excuse, but I do get where they come from.
Which is a long-winded way of saying - if anyone could point me to that comment, I would be very grateful.
posted by peacheater at 4:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump in an interview with WLOS:
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
"I’ve always had the best temperament. My temperament is the thing that’s the best. You know they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on tempeament. And I've always had a winning temperament. We want to win. Our country doesn't win anymore."He goes on to discuss the Philippines, Obama campaigning, and competence, all in an answer to can the American people trust you.
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
ardgedee: (overseas) betting companies are already calling Clinton the winner, and they have skin in that game.
But it makes sound financial sense, and does indicate that the bookmaker thinks the odds of (in this case) a Clinton victory are very high, and is willing to bet their own money on that prospect.
posted by msalt at 4:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Heh, I guessed without even looking which company that would be. They are very well-known for declaring winners and paying out early. They do it as a publicity stunt when one contender is well ahead, more than a sense that the race is truly over.Why are you so sure it's a publicity stunt? They pay off the bets at a discount, hedging their losses. Of course it's possible that the expected outcome doesn't happen; other than getting your money earlier, or just sheer nervousness about losing a big payout, that's the only reason that anyone would take the deal.
But it makes sound financial sense, and does indicate that the bookmaker thinks the odds of (in this case) a Clinton victory are very high, and is willing to bet their own money on that prospect.
posted by msalt at 4:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on tempeament.
The Republicans are so fucked. They are so fucked. It's really kinda nice to see.
posted by valkane at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Republicans are so fucked. They are so fucked. It's really kinda nice to see.
posted by valkane at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am going to go out there and say that Ivanka Trump has some pretty dresses. It is too bad that
Ivanka Trump is a surrogate of FakeCheeseHitler, because no way am I buying that shit. It's a weird feeling; a delight in knowing that I would totally buy this product that I would enjoy but for the political inclinations of the owner of the line.
I don't know; it's satisfying somehow to say, *oh pretty dress* wait *puts it back, vomits*. Then again, it wouldn't be fun if Trump were winning, so this is some weird punching down shit that is at the same time punching upward and if any of the Trumpers had shown maybe a presence of a soul I wouldn't feel so gleeful about metaphorical barfing all over their brand.
posted by angrycat at 4:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ivanka Trump is a surrogate of FakeCheeseHitler, because no way am I buying that shit. It's a weird feeling; a delight in knowing that I would totally buy this product that I would enjoy but for the political inclinations of the owner of the line.
I don't know; it's satisfying somehow to say, *oh pretty dress* wait *puts it back, vomits*. Then again, it wouldn't be fun if Trump were winning, so this is some weird punching down shit that is at the same time punching upward and if any of the Trumpers had shown maybe a presence of a soul I wouldn't feel so gleeful about metaphorical barfing all over their brand.
posted by angrycat at 4:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
"I’ve always had the best temperament. My temperament is the thing that’s the best. You know they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on temperament. And I've always had a winning temperament. We want to win. Our country doesn't win anymore."
Trumptranslation: Yes to answer your question, the American people can trust my decision making ability. I have a the best temperament for making sound decisions. I repeat my temperament is top-notch and so good that Clinton needs to attack it. They are spending hundreds of millions on ads attacking it. They are wrong.
I want to win, I've always been about winning, just like America. America is about winning and lately our track record hasn't been great.
posted by Jalliah at 4:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Trumptranslation: Yes to answer your question, the American people can trust my decision making ability. I have a the best temperament for making sound decisions. I repeat my temperament is top-notch and so good that Clinton needs to attack it. They are spending hundreds of millions on ads attacking it. They are wrong.
I want to win, I've always been about winning, just like America. America is about winning and lately our track record hasn't been great.
posted by Jalliah at 4:45 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Trump says the U.S. will pay for "the wall" and Mexico will reimburse us.
I always assumed he never really cared if he broke his promise to "make Mexico pay for it"; there is one and only one reason "Build That Wall" is the one part of his rant that has never changed. And he tipped his hand on it at the beginning, saying "my companies have built great buildings, we can build the wall". He intends to make himself the Prime Contractor and make a few billion dollars off the project, even if it never comes to more than a few miles in the desert.
He has three motivations for running for President: (1) to make the kind of Big Money he never succeeded at before by feeding off the Federal trough; (2) to make all his Legal Problems go away by Presidential Fiat; (3) to use his Massive Presidential Power to punish his enemies, real and imagined... it was an odd coincidence that one of the things that gave momentum to his campaign was his "Anti-Big-Bank" stances (since muted) which were primarily motivated by the fact that America's Big Banks didn't want to do business with him anymore. (And as I've said before, when you're too dirty for Wells Fargo to make money off of, you're DAMNED dirty.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
I always assumed he never really cared if he broke his promise to "make Mexico pay for it"; there is one and only one reason "Build That Wall" is the one part of his rant that has never changed. And he tipped his hand on it at the beginning, saying "my companies have built great buildings, we can build the wall". He intends to make himself the Prime Contractor and make a few billion dollars off the project, even if it never comes to more than a few miles in the desert.
He has three motivations for running for President: (1) to make the kind of Big Money he never succeeded at before by feeding off the Federal trough; (2) to make all his Legal Problems go away by Presidential Fiat; (3) to use his Massive Presidential Power to punish his enemies, real and imagined... it was an odd coincidence that one of the things that gave momentum to his campaign was his "Anti-Big-Bank" stances (since muted) which were primarily motivated by the fact that America's Big Banks didn't want to do business with him anymore. (And as I've said before, when you're too dirty for Wells Fargo to make money off of, you're DAMNED dirty.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
I know it's awfully late to be asking this, but I don't get Trump's (attempted) carpenter joke at the Al Smith dinner. Surely he never worked as an actual carpenter. Is he equating developing real estate with carpentry? Am I missing something really obvious?
posted by HotToddy at 4:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 4:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jalliah ... how ... how do you DO that?
posted by kyrademon at 4:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 4:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
Jesus was a carpenter. He was comparing himself to the son of the Christian God.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:50 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:50 PM on October 22, 2016
Yes, but was Trump ever actually a carpenter? Ever? In his life?
posted by kyrademon at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know Jesus was a carpenter. But he was equating himself to Jesus by saying he started out as a carpenter . . .?
posted by HotToddy at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by HotToddy at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2016
It is a megalomaniac joke.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
He was comparing himself to the son of the Christian God.
At some point last week, he said that the "media" of the day crucified Jesus. No word on when he is going to openly rant about ZOG.
posted by thelonius at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
At some point last week, he said that the "media" of the day crucified Jesus. No word on when he is going to openly rant about ZOG.
posted by thelonius at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
As part of the carpenter joke, he said: "True. Not for a long period of time but I was. For about three weeks."
So assuming he's not lying about that (and with him, that's not a safe assumption), his dad made him carry around a hammer for a couple weeks or something. No evidence that he "worked" as a carpenter, but he was briefly assigned to something resembling the role.
posted by zachlipton at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
So assuming he's not lying about that (and with him, that's not a safe assumption), his dad made him carry around a hammer for a couple weeks or something. No evidence that he "worked" as a carpenter, but he was briefly assigned to something resembling the role.
posted by zachlipton at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Jalliah ... how ... how do you DO that?
Over the course of this election I seem to have learned to speak Trump.
It does freak me out.
posted by Jalliah at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]
Over the course of this election I seem to have learned to speak Trump.
It does freak me out.
posted by Jalliah at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]
Here's the full text of the joke:
"I do recognize that I come into this event with a little bit of an advantage. I know that so many of you in the archdiocese already have a place in your heart for a guy who started out as a carpenter working for his father. I was a carpenter working for my father. True, not for a long period of time, about three weeks."
posted by HotToddy at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016
"I do recognize that I come into this event with a little bit of an advantage. I know that so many of you in the archdiocese already have a place in your heart for a guy who started out as a carpenter working for his father. I was a carpenter working for my father. True, not for a long period of time, about three weeks."
posted by HotToddy at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016
The Sanhedrin trial was rigged, folks!
posted by tonycpsu at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
That "lighter note" link is gold.
[Writing the State Of The Union]posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
OBAMA: So I'll say the state of the union is...
BIDEN: On fleek. Say it's on fleek.
Yeah, it occurred to me that maybe his dad made him do some scut work before loaning him the million dollars, just so he could say he worked his way up. I've just never heard anything about it before this joke.
posted by HotToddy at 4:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 4:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
If we win back the majority in the Senate it is with a much more progressive group than we've seen before. No Joe Leiberman and we have Bernie Sanders running the budget committee, not Max Bachus
posted by humanfont at 5:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 5:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, it occurred to me that maybe his dad made him do some scut work before loaning him the million dollars, just so he could say he worked his way up.I don't think that being a carpenter is something you can just do for three weeks without any training, though. At the very least, you need to serve an apprenticeship. Maybe he was a carpenter's helper or something?
Just got back from GOTV dry run number 2. I feel like I need some sort of "today in election insanity" thing to let me know what happened when I was too busy to follow twitter. Although I guess that it's safe to assume that every day until election day the answer will probably be "Trump said something wacky and a woman came forward to accuse him of sexual assault."
Dry run number 2 seems to be going much better than dry run number 1, knock wood.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hey, you know the guy who does the big paintings of like the Founding Fathers with a single tear rolling down their faces as Obama and Bill Clinton roll a doobie with the Constitution and laugh while they watch a mass forced gay marriage ceremony? I wonder if he's making any Trump paintings. Trump driving the moneylenders out of the White House, media executives throwing dice for his garments, stuff like that.
posted by thelonius at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Trump in an interview with WLOS
WeLOSt
posted by kirkaracha at 5:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hey, you know the guy who does the big paintings of like the Founding Fathers with a single tear rolling down their faces as Obama and Bill Clinton roll a doobie with the Constitution and laugh while they watch a mass forced gay marriage ceremony? I wonder if he's making any Trump paintings. Trump driving the moneylenders out of the White House, media executives throwing dice for his garments, stuff like that.
Is this the guy? Jon McNaughton. If so for the low price of 20 bucks you can get lots of sketches of Trump with quotes!
posted by Jalliah at 5:11 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
If so for the low price of 20 bucks you can get lots of sketches of Trump with quotes!
SAIT!
posted by cashman at 5:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
SAIT!
posted by cashman at 5:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Random pantsuit trivia: up to 1993 the dress code of the US Senate forbade women from wearing pants onto the senate floor; it was only skirts and dresses and pantyhose for senators and senate staffers.
I worked at EDS, climbing around supercomputers. I got a memo in 1998 telling me that I was supposed to wear a dress and heels and hose. I made HR come to the servers and said that if they tried to force me to wear a dress on open grate floors, or heels on same floor, that the lawsuit I would bring would be national news.
Two weeks later, EDS stopped having a gendered dress code. Three weeks later I was fired, but whatever.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [215 favorites]
I worked at EDS, climbing around supercomputers. I got a memo in 1998 telling me that I was supposed to wear a dress and heels and hose. I made HR come to the servers and said that if they tried to force me to wear a dress on open grate floors, or heels on same floor, that the lawsuit I would bring would be national news.
Two weeks later, EDS stopped having a gendered dress code. Three weeks later I was fired, but whatever.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [215 favorites]
Jalliah, that's the guy....check out "Patriotic->Political"
posted by thelonius at 5:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 5:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue....
If it makes you feel better, recently, I was in a discussion on the Book of Face that was kicked off by a meme that was a picture of a bunch of Malheur Refuge types captioned with some sort of "we're going to overthrow the government"comment, followed by a picture of a soldier in full tactical gear captioned "awww, that's cute." Which really, is kind of how I think most people on the left feel about these nuts - that they've been talking violent insurrection for years but IRL they have not clue one (e.g. send snacks).
But the discussion went real damn serious real damn fast. Are these guys really going to try something like that? Will it manifest as attacks on government buildings, or lone nuts shooting the mailman, or what? Is this graph going to suddenly grow a shoulder when, after murdering some minority or another in the street, Aryan Nation types are surprised that the police aren't there to help 'em out? Nobody I've encountered wants any of that. So I don't think there is a strong "Go Deplorables!" faction on the left. OTOH, there have been a voices on the right who have been consistently ringing the dinner bell for every wannabe klansman and neonazi for, well, ever since the Southern Strategy was first a thing.
But here's the issue - the right has reveled in these guys support for decades and now that the dog whistles are actually audible to the human ear, the left is supposed to feel all bad and run over and put out the fire they started? First, how? There's not going to be any peace offering that's going to make these guys into rational centrists, or even stop Rush Limbaugh and his ilk from stoking their fears for two hours a day on AM radio. "Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome" is not going to cut it here. Second, what's in it for the left? The right has enjoyed these bastard's support for a decade or two now, and has used that to shove as much as possible down the nation's gullet when they could, or to be as obstructionist as possible when they couldn't. This really is a sow the wind, reap the whirlwind kind of situation. Is the right suddenly going to behave like adults again? Or is this just a ploy to get the left to spend their moment on top cleaning u the right's mess until they can get back into power and reboot the K Street Project?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [27 favorites]
If it makes you feel better, recently, I was in a discussion on the Book of Face that was kicked off by a meme that was a picture of a bunch of Malheur Refuge types captioned with some sort of "we're going to overthrow the government"comment, followed by a picture of a soldier in full tactical gear captioned "awww, that's cute." Which really, is kind of how I think most people on the left feel about these nuts - that they've been talking violent insurrection for years but IRL they have not clue one (e.g. send snacks).
But the discussion went real damn serious real damn fast. Are these guys really going to try something like that? Will it manifest as attacks on government buildings, or lone nuts shooting the mailman, or what? Is this graph going to suddenly grow a shoulder when, after murdering some minority or another in the street, Aryan Nation types are surprised that the police aren't there to help 'em out? Nobody I've encountered wants any of that. So I don't think there is a strong "Go Deplorables!" faction on the left. OTOH, there have been a voices on the right who have been consistently ringing the dinner bell for every wannabe klansman and neonazi for, well, ever since the Southern Strategy was first a thing.
But here's the issue - the right has reveled in these guys support for decades and now that the dog whistles are actually audible to the human ear, the left is supposed to feel all bad and run over and put out the fire they started? First, how? There's not going to be any peace offering that's going to make these guys into rational centrists, or even stop Rush Limbaugh and his ilk from stoking their fears for two hours a day on AM radio. "Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome" is not going to cut it here. Second, what's in it for the left? The right has enjoyed these bastard's support for a decade or two now, and has used that to shove as much as possible down the nation's gullet when they could, or to be as obstructionist as possible when they couldn't. This really is a sow the wind, reap the whirlwind kind of situation. Is the right suddenly going to behave like adults again? Or is this just a ploy to get the left to spend their moment on top cleaning u the right's mess until they can get back into power and reboot the K Street Project?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [27 favorites]
To the point of whether Democrats hope the Republicans stay in chaos and in thrall to the 'deplorables':
I don't. Certainly, from a pragmatic political standpoint, I'd love for there to be a window during which Clinton (assuming she wins) can pass real legislation. So sure, if the current divisions help Clinton gain a mandate in the short term, I'm game.
But the longer term picture is better for America if the Republicans get their house in order. Not just for the abstraction of the country benefitting from a real opposition party. But because a Republican party that shuts out the voices of hatred will be better for those who are targets of the hatred.
A week ago, a friend of mine had a conversation with his parents that began with "Tell us why you're voting for Clinton" and ended with him being disowned. His answer was truthful: "When it gets right down to it, Hillary will protect my right to get married."
My friend had worked hard to try to keep the lines of communication open with his family - they being conservatives in the South, he being a gay escapee to the north who is now engaged to a wonderful guy. For the last couple years, I'd been happy that his family, despite being Christian conservatives, had at least continued to welcome him home and even met his partner.
But the election proved to be the flash point. My friend's family - these people now feel legitimized in their hatred and righteousness to the point that they can tell their own son that he is no longer welcome in the family. An America in which the Republican party can nominate Trump or the next fascist is an America in which those people can feel justified in enacting hatred against their own child. I do not want that for my country, no matter what the national political upsides for the Democratic Party.
posted by Chanther at 5:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [95 favorites]
I don't. Certainly, from a pragmatic political standpoint, I'd love for there to be a window during which Clinton (assuming she wins) can pass real legislation. So sure, if the current divisions help Clinton gain a mandate in the short term, I'm game.
But the longer term picture is better for America if the Republicans get their house in order. Not just for the abstraction of the country benefitting from a real opposition party. But because a Republican party that shuts out the voices of hatred will be better for those who are targets of the hatred.
A week ago, a friend of mine had a conversation with his parents that began with "Tell us why you're voting for Clinton" and ended with him being disowned. His answer was truthful: "When it gets right down to it, Hillary will protect my right to get married."
My friend had worked hard to try to keep the lines of communication open with his family - they being conservatives in the South, he being a gay escapee to the north who is now engaged to a wonderful guy. For the last couple years, I'd been happy that his family, despite being Christian conservatives, had at least continued to welcome him home and even met his partner.
But the election proved to be the flash point. My friend's family - these people now feel legitimized in their hatred and righteousness to the point that they can tell their own son that he is no longer welcome in the family. An America in which the Republican party can nominate Trump or the next fascist is an America in which those people can feel justified in enacting hatred against their own child. I do not want that for my country, no matter what the national political upsides for the Democratic Party.
posted by Chanther at 5:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [95 favorites]
I remember Obama's first two years and the foot-dragging/compromises/cowardice of the Democratic majority was appalling.
Oh, come on. That's partly selective memory and partly Green Lantern theory of politics.
McConnell made his "one-term president" declaration in January 2009 and embarked upon a policy of filibustering everything. The Senate didn't get 60 Dems until July 2009, when Al Franken was sworn in. Ted Kennedy died in late August 2009. Ted Kirk was appointed as a replacement in September, and Scott Brown won the special election in January 2010. That was also the summer of Tea Party and birther types taking AR-15s to town hall meetings.
I won't dispute that the 2010 campaign was a mess, because it lacked a coherent national message to accommodate House Blue Dogs and other elected Dems who felt the need to run away from the party. And I won't dispute that the consequences of 2010 persist to this day. But I've never seen a credible alternative timeline that accommodated the red-state needs of Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, Blanche Lincoln and so on, or the preening (and spousal lobbying interests) of Joe Lieberman.
The carpenter part was necessary for setup since he was in a room full of people who believe in Jesus.
Well, Frederick Christ Trump was a carpenter, and I can easily imagine him sending Young Don out for a few weeks of "start working for me by doing the stuff I did", just as he sent Young Don to military school for discipline. Lots of daddy issues there.
posted by holgate at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [24 favorites]
Oh, come on. That's partly selective memory and partly Green Lantern theory of politics.
McConnell made his "one-term president" declaration in January 2009 and embarked upon a policy of filibustering everything. The Senate didn't get 60 Dems until July 2009, when Al Franken was sworn in. Ted Kennedy died in late August 2009. Ted Kirk was appointed as a replacement in September, and Scott Brown won the special election in January 2010. That was also the summer of Tea Party and birther types taking AR-15s to town hall meetings.
I won't dispute that the 2010 campaign was a mess, because it lacked a coherent national message to accommodate House Blue Dogs and other elected Dems who felt the need to run away from the party. And I won't dispute that the consequences of 2010 persist to this day. But I've never seen a credible alternative timeline that accommodated the red-state needs of Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, Blanche Lincoln and so on, or the preening (and spousal lobbying interests) of Joe Lieberman.
The carpenter part was necessary for setup since he was in a room full of people who believe in Jesus.
Well, Frederick Christ Trump was a carpenter, and I can easily imagine him sending Young Don out for a few weeks of "start working for me by doing the stuff I did", just as he sent Young Don to military school for discipline. Lots of daddy issues there.
posted by holgate at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [24 favorites]
Has anyone used this electoral map app?
Just got it. What do you want to know? It corresponds roughly to the Princeton map, i.e., it has 341-197 and Princeton has 336-202.
posted by kingless at 5:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just got it. What do you want to know? It corresponds roughly to the Princeton map, i.e., it has 341-197 and Princeton has 336-202.
posted by kingless at 5:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Today in West Virginia, a little boy about 8 years old told me he used to want to be president, but now he knows elections are rigged. 2016." --@JulieZauzmer
In lighter news, Buoyed by rising polls, Clinton shifts to a new target: the House and Senate:
In lighter news, Buoyed by rising polls, Clinton shifts to a new target: the House and Senate:
Hillary Clinton is pouring $1 million into Indiana and Missouri in the campaign’s final weeks — not because the Democratic presidential nominee thinks she can carry those reliably Republican states, but because she believes that, with an extra push, Democrats can win the Senate and governors’ races there.posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
In Michigan, the Clinton campaign is propelling a late surge by Democratic state legislative candidates to regain their House majority. In parts of Maine, Nebraska, Virginia and other states, Clinton volunteers are touting Democratic congressional candidates in their phone calls and fliers to voters. And as Clinton rallied supporters across Pennsylvania on Saturday with running mate Tim Kaine, she touted Senate hopeful Katie McGinty and attacked her GOP opponent, Sen. Patrick J. Toomey, as beholden to presidential nominee Donald Trump.
Who gives a crap what democrats wish tho?
This is hard to explain, but - I remember the 2004 election, back when I was a liberal. I hated GWB so much that I took my block leave from deployment, that I was supposed to use for R&R, and I used it as a Dem precinct captain going door to door. I was convinced the country was going to vote him out. All the volunteers met up at a bar, prepared to cheer. And - it didn't happen. The night and terrible concession morning were horrible. But we weren't just grieving that Bush would still be in power. The next day, one of my friends put it best: "I feel like half of America has just broken up with me."
Likewise, this election, I already feel like 35% of the electorate has broken up with me. I don't know which of the people around me just want to tell me I have to go back, as some people already have to my face. I know a lot of people feel like it was always there, but it was never, never nakedly on display like this. Like David French suddenly getting stuff talking about putting his seven year old daughter in a gas oven. This stuff was and is like a hidden cancer. I don't know who is cool with Trump increasing hatred for people like me, and other groups I empathize with, just to get a Supreme Court Justice on their side - but I know they are there, in the streets, in my supermarket, in my church.
I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something. Because I don't know if I am strong enough to go out every day and keep my head up and dream of a better life if 70% of the country is willing to tolerate this just to get their policies through. I don't know if I can believe in the hope of America if the numbers are that high.
So yeah, I care. I care a lot. I'll keep fighting regardless of whether or not anyone is fighting with me or even just hoping with me that I can win and beat these bastards back - but it's not like my mind has somehow excised Democrats from America so somehow what they think can't hurt me.
posted by corb at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [51 favorites]
This is hard to explain, but - I remember the 2004 election, back when I was a liberal. I hated GWB so much that I took my block leave from deployment, that I was supposed to use for R&R, and I used it as a Dem precinct captain going door to door. I was convinced the country was going to vote him out. All the volunteers met up at a bar, prepared to cheer. And - it didn't happen. The night and terrible concession morning were horrible. But we weren't just grieving that Bush would still be in power. The next day, one of my friends put it best: "I feel like half of America has just broken up with me."
Likewise, this election, I already feel like 35% of the electorate has broken up with me. I don't know which of the people around me just want to tell me I have to go back, as some people already have to my face. I know a lot of people feel like it was always there, but it was never, never nakedly on display like this. Like David French suddenly getting stuff talking about putting his seven year old daughter in a gas oven. This stuff was and is like a hidden cancer. I don't know who is cool with Trump increasing hatred for people like me, and other groups I empathize with, just to get a Supreme Court Justice on their side - but I know they are there, in the streets, in my supermarket, in my church.
I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something. Because I don't know if I am strong enough to go out every day and keep my head up and dream of a better life if 70% of the country is willing to tolerate this just to get their policies through. I don't know if I can believe in the hope of America if the numbers are that high.
So yeah, I care. I care a lot. I'll keep fighting regardless of whether or not anyone is fighting with me or even just hoping with me that I can win and beat these bastards back - but it's not like my mind has somehow excised Democrats from America so somehow what they think can't hurt me.
posted by corb at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [51 favorites]
for most Democrats, the Republican obstructionism and rapacious state-level governance over the last eight years was itself country-on-fire chaos.
Or if it's not actually already on fire, the gas tanks are leaking and all the "No Smoking" and "Caution: Hazardous Materials" signs have rusted and fallen down and there's some people leading crowds armed with matches towards the puddles talking up how pretty fire is.
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Or if it's not actually already on fire, the gas tanks are leaking and all the "No Smoking" and "Caution: Hazardous Materials" signs have rusted and fallen down and there's some people leading crowds armed with matches towards the puddles talking up how pretty fire is.
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Just got it. What do you want to know? It corresponds roughly to the Princeton map, i.e., it has 341-197 and Princeton has 336-202.
Wow, thank you. Is it worth $3? Is the lookback function from previous elections good? Is it something you'd recommend having?
posted by cashman at 5:47 PM on October 22, 2016
Wow, thank you. Is it worth $3? Is the lookback function from previous elections good? Is it something you'd recommend having?
posted by cashman at 5:47 PM on October 22, 2016
On the broader question of what to do with the deplorables:
Do McConnell and Ryan decide that they are necessary for midterm victory in 2018 and that they should be kept inside the tent pissing out, or that they have enough of a buffer in the Senate election rotation and the House gerrymander to push on without them, and create a better platform for 2020?
I think that's in the balance right now, and it could easily start to resemble Netanyahu's approach of shuffling factional alliances and policy positions just to get through the next election.
Do a Clinton White House and Dem leadership in Congress think it's politically expedient to keep treating the GOP leadership as accountable for the deplorables, in the hope that the 2018 GOP Senate primaries deliver up far-right candidates? Honestly, I don't think so: keeps things unstable, takes you too close to the "smarter demagogue" scenario. And things like immigration reform need to be addressed in 2017 before campaign season once again kicks in.
posted by holgate at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Do McConnell and Ryan decide that they are necessary for midterm victory in 2018 and that they should be kept inside the tent pissing out, or that they have enough of a buffer in the Senate election rotation and the House gerrymander to push on without them, and create a better platform for 2020?
I think that's in the balance right now, and it could easily start to resemble Netanyahu's approach of shuffling factional alliances and policy positions just to get through the next election.
Do a Clinton White House and Dem leadership in Congress think it's politically expedient to keep treating the GOP leadership as accountable for the deplorables, in the hope that the 2018 GOP Senate primaries deliver up far-right candidates? Honestly, I don't think so: keeps things unstable, takes you too close to the "smarter demagogue" scenario. And things like immigration reform need to be addressed in 2017 before campaign season once again kicks in.
posted by holgate at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jalliah, that's the guy....check out "Patriotic->Political"
that guy's a real asshole.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
that guy's a real asshole.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is it worth $3? Is the lookback function from previous elections good? Is it something you'd recommend having?
I think so, but of course YMMV. The historical section goes back to 1789. Swipe l2r to go back in time and r2l to go forward, or use the list to go straight to whatever year you like. There's a day-by-day calendar for this year. Settings allow inclusion/exclusion of 3rd-party candidates.
I'm sure there's nothing in the app that you can't find for free online. Even so, it's convenient and I'm glad to have it. Thanks for mentioning it.
posted by kingless at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think so, but of course YMMV. The historical section goes back to 1789. Swipe l2r to go back in time and r2l to go forward, or use the list to go straight to whatever year you like. There's a day-by-day calendar for this year. Settings allow inclusion/exclusion of 3rd-party candidates.
I'm sure there's nothing in the app that you can't find for free online. Even so, it's convenient and I'm glad to have it. Thanks for mentioning it.
posted by kingless at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
LIVE Stream: Hillary Clinton & Tim Kaine Rally in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (10/22/2016)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
Just to come back to how awful an idea this is, Carter and Reagan already tried it in the late 70s and early 80s. Here's what the GAO said about it:
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [50 favorites]
Just to come back to how awful an idea this is, Carter and Reagan already tried it in the late 70s and early 80s. Here's what the GAO said about it:
Government-wide hiring freezes, regardless of how well they are managed, are not an effective means of controlling federal employment. The government-wide hiring freezes had little effect on federal employment levels and it is not known whether they saved money. Because they ignored individual agencies' missions, workload, and staffing requirement, these freezes disrupted agency operations and, in some cases, increased costs to the government. Since these hiring freezes disregarded agency workload requirements and did not cover all personnel resources used by the government, they created an incentive for managers to use alternative sources of labor. Any potential savings produced by these freezes would be partially or completely offset by increasing overtime, contracting with private firms, or using other than full-time permanent employees. Decreased debt and revenue collections also occurred as a result of hiring freezes. Government-wide hiring freezes bear no relationship to the workload that agencies are responsible for carrying out. However, GAO recognizes that there may be unique circumstances which may be beyond an individual agency's control. GAO believes employment reduction should be targeted where it can best be absorbed. Improved workforce planning and use of the budget as a control on employment, rather than arbitrary across-the-board hiring freezes, is a more effective way to insure that the level of personnel resources is consistent with program requirements.In short, the departments that needed to hire couldn't and there's no evidence that this saved any money. If you want to reduce the size of the federal government, use the budget process to cut programs based on priorities instead of pretending you can issue a magic decree and solve all your problems. I'm sure it's great for federal contractors though.
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [50 favorites]
Hiring freezes are also terrible because you disproportionately lose your best people - they're the ones with good outside options, and they'll take them as their workplace becomes increasingly dysfunctional. You're left with mostly people who know they're not going to get a better deal elsewhere.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [69 favorites]
posted by une_heure_pleine at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [69 favorites]
I am so excited! My younger son and I are going to see Hillary and Liz in NH on Monday! I knew I couldn't miss this. Anyone know if they will let me bring knitting needles into the arena? I have a feeling we're going to be waiting a lot.
posted by Biblio at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Biblio at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Clinton: ‘I don’t even think about responding’ to Trump anymore
"Using some of her most dismissive language of the campaign, Clinton said aboard her campaign plane on Saturday that, “I don’t even think about responding to him anymore” after their third and final debate earlier this week.
Leading in the polls both nationally and in battleground states, Clinton signaled that she and running mate Tim Kaine instead would be focused on making gains for congressional Democrats in the closing stretch of the campaign. Democrats hope to win back the majority in the Senate and some are even dreaming of taking control of the House despite what is currently a historically large Republican majority.
“As we’re traveling in these last 17 days we’re going to be emphasizing the importance of electing Democrats down the ballot,” Clinton said."
posted by chris24 at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
"Using some of her most dismissive language of the campaign, Clinton said aboard her campaign plane on Saturday that, “I don’t even think about responding to him anymore” after their third and final debate earlier this week.
Leading in the polls both nationally and in battleground states, Clinton signaled that she and running mate Tim Kaine instead would be focused on making gains for congressional Democrats in the closing stretch of the campaign. Democrats hope to win back the majority in the Senate and some are even dreaming of taking control of the House despite what is currently a historically large Republican majority.
“As we’re traveling in these last 17 days we’re going to be emphasizing the importance of electing Democrats down the ballot,” Clinton said."
posted by chris24 at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
LIVE Stream: Hillary Clinton & Tim Kaine Rally in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (10/22/2016) yt
Looks like a huge crowd. Good to see.
posted by dis_integration at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Looks like a huge crowd. Good to see.
posted by dis_integration at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
corb -- Personally, I want him ignored, forgotten, his stances repudiated, his ideas disregarded, his name little more than a trivial pursuit question. I want him to lose in a landslide. I want voting for him to be regarded as an embarrassment. I want his alt-right and hardcore racist and misogynist supporters to crawl back down the memory hole. I want them to be nothing but the punchlines to jokes.
I want this election to be such a historic shellacking that the Republican party takes a good hard look at itself and says, "Wow, OK, we cannot continue with the politics of xenophobia, of voter suppression, of obstructionism, of lies, of anti-intellectualism, of the delegitimization of experts, of the delegitimization our opponents, and of the delegitimization of the democratic process. It can win a primary, but the American people as a whole will no longer stand for it in a general election." If they can't or won't evolve beyond those evils, then I want the party to collapse, quickly and utterly, and a new, sane party to take its place. I want the entire strain of American nationalistic conspiracy-theory bullshit strongman politics that is Trumpism to be gone, gone and never to return.
That's what I want. I don't expect to get it, at least not on a timescale that isn't measured in decades. But I have NO INTEREST in seeing this virus in U.S. politics persist, even if the result would be short-term political gain for "my side". It's too dangerous and too frightening.
posted by kyrademon at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [73 favorites]
I want this election to be such a historic shellacking that the Republican party takes a good hard look at itself and says, "Wow, OK, we cannot continue with the politics of xenophobia, of voter suppression, of obstructionism, of lies, of anti-intellectualism, of the delegitimization of experts, of the delegitimization our opponents, and of the delegitimization of the democratic process. It can win a primary, but the American people as a whole will no longer stand for it in a general election." If they can't or won't evolve beyond those evils, then I want the party to collapse, quickly and utterly, and a new, sane party to take its place. I want the entire strain of American nationalistic conspiracy-theory bullshit strongman politics that is Trumpism to be gone, gone and never to return.
That's what I want. I don't expect to get it, at least not on a timescale that isn't measured in decades. But I have NO INTEREST in seeing this virus in U.S. politics persist, even if the result would be short-term political gain for "my side". It's too dangerous and too frightening.
posted by kyrademon at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2016 [73 favorites]
Looks like a huge crowd.
On a chilly Sat. night.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2016
On a chilly Sat. night.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2016
I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something.
Are there Dems actually expressing this opinion? Because every Hillary supporter I've talked to is terrified that there will be violence. I did GOTV today, and we were told to remind people to vote by mail so as to avoid any potential election day confrontations.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]
Are there Dems actually expressing this opinion? Because every Hillary supporter I've talked to is terrified that there will be violence. I did GOTV today, and we were told to remind people to vote by mail so as to avoid any potential election day confrontations.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [33 favorites]
I'm watching Game 6 of the NLCS and they've shown at least two attack ads on Clinton. In California. Where if you volunteer for the Clinton campaign they ask you to call Georgia or travel to Nevada. Nice strategy. (Are the ads national?)
Attention Dodgers: Giving up a double every inning probably isn't going to get you to the World Series.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Attention Dodgers: Giving up a double every inning probably isn't going to get you to the World Series.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Those are national buys.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2016
corb part of what might underlie some of the sentiment about people continuing to be deplorable is the practical reality that meaningful change for virulent racism, sexism, and xenophobia isn't likely. These people will die before they will change.
I'm not sure this is true. It may well be for some of the Trump voters, but I think like every other movement, the Deplorables have their squishy middle. I find it dangerous for everyone to hope they persist. I still hope they can be reached.
One of my Trump supporting high school friends is an adoptee from Korea who now lives in Indiana. She once took on a Klan rally single handed because she's so fiercely anti-racist. However, literally everyone in her small town is supporting Trump. The most progressive news source she has access to is Fox news. She doesn't believe Trump is racist because the people she loves wouldn't support a racist and everyone in her town loves her. She believes that HRC is a liar who will further break down the small town life she loves and shove her family even closer to the edge of uncertainty. She will vote for Trump no matter what comes out and no matter what happens because everyone around her is doing the same. She's extreme in one way because she's literally the only PoC I know supporting Trump, but she is very typical in others. We really need to strengthen the fourth estate and we need to start to pay attention to the damage that sensation-driven media is doing to our country.
I don't feel sorry for the Republican party-- they decided to dance with the Racism Devil and now he's taken the lead in the waltz, but I do feel sorry for the ordinary people swept away in the moment. For every hard core racist, I believe there is one other person next to him who just can't believe everyone around them can be so wrong.
posted by frumiousb at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm not sure this is true. It may well be for some of the Trump voters, but I think like every other movement, the Deplorables have their squishy middle. I find it dangerous for everyone to hope they persist. I still hope they can be reached.
One of my Trump supporting high school friends is an adoptee from Korea who now lives in Indiana. She once took on a Klan rally single handed because she's so fiercely anti-racist. However, literally everyone in her small town is supporting Trump. The most progressive news source she has access to is Fox news. She doesn't believe Trump is racist because the people she loves wouldn't support a racist and everyone in her town loves her. She believes that HRC is a liar who will further break down the small town life she loves and shove her family even closer to the edge of uncertainty. She will vote for Trump no matter what comes out and no matter what happens because everyone around her is doing the same. She's extreme in one way because she's literally the only PoC I know supporting Trump, but she is very typical in others. We really need to strengthen the fourth estate and we need to start to pay attention to the damage that sensation-driven media is doing to our country.
I don't feel sorry for the Republican party-- they decided to dance with the Racism Devil and now he's taken the lead in the waltz, but I do feel sorry for the ordinary people swept away in the moment. For every hard core racist, I believe there is one other person next to him who just can't believe everyone around them can be so wrong.
posted by frumiousb at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [21 favorites]
Yeaaaah, I am not seeing a lot of glee about Trump among the Democrats I'm talking to, and I am also deeply involved in GOTV. I'm seeing a lot of horror at the possibility of a Trump presidency, resolve to try to prevent it, fear about what this all means for the future of the country, and relief that it looks like we'll be able to avert armageddon, at least for now.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
I can't organise from Hong Kong, but I am trying to do my bit by finally paying for subscriptions to a lot of publications I read online who are fighting the good fight. This much I can do. And also try to get my friends abroad to be sure to vote.
A desperate "please" to those of you in the US to GOTV among your friends! I'm hearing a depressing number of progressive voters on FB saying that they're relieved that "now I don't need to vote for a Clinton because Trump won't win anymore". We can't relax until it's over. Vote!
posted by frumiousb at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
A desperate "please" to those of you in the US to GOTV among your friends! I'm hearing a depressing number of progressive voters on FB saying that they're relieved that "now I don't need to vote for a Clinton because Trump won't win anymore". We can't relax until it's over. Vote!
posted by frumiousb at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
For every hard core racist, I believe there is one other person next to him who just can't believe everyone around them can be so wrong.
That used to be me, more or less. Dogwhistles are really hard to point out without looking like a nutter, which is why they're so effective. Deplorables hear them, the more rational base just doesn't, and assume you're hearing voices.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
That used to be me, more or less. Dogwhistles are really hard to point out without looking like a nutter, which is why they're so effective. Deplorables hear them, the more rational base just doesn't, and assume you're hearing voices.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
Hill introduced!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2016
Hill just seems genuinely delighted by Tim all the time.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pence is like the guy who follows the circus parade and sweeps up all the elephant shit.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, my fantasy outcome is that Trump gets demolished in the vote (repudiating as best we can at this point his mesage), then Republicans move away from xenophobia and racism in the future to avoid a future landslide defeat, but that they still lose because the country prefers the ideas of the Democrats (on issues like the economy, healthcare, etc).
As others have said, the mere presence of Trump or any significant political faction espousing those kinds of views legitimizes hatred and violence in a way that is very dangerous. So I really hope the GOP does course correct away from that. I still want them to lose, obviously, because I'm a pretty solid Democrat, but a country where Democrats win but a significant minority party continues to advocate for racism and xenophobia is not a "win".
posted by thefoxgod at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
As others have said, the mere presence of Trump or any significant political faction espousing those kinds of views legitimizes hatred and violence in a way that is very dangerous. So I really hope the GOP does course correct away from that. I still want them to lose, obviously, because I'm a pretty solid Democrat, but a country where Democrats win but a significant minority party continues to advocate for racism and xenophobia is not a "win".
posted by thefoxgod at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm already on the Kaine Train. 2024!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm afraid the deplorables are unreachable. Today two were interviewed on MSNBC and they cited Alex Jones and Project Veritas as reliable sources. Unless you learn in school how to evaluate the objectivity of a source, you will never be able to look at Alex Jones raving about demons and go, "hmm, that guy seems not ok." This is even true of slightly less deplorable people. I once heard a story on NPR where a leading climate change scientist used her absolute best pitch to convince a climate change denier that the whole thing wasn't a conspiracy made up by liberals. At the end of the pitch, the woman said something like, "I'm sure you believe what you're saying, but I don't believe you."
The deplorables need to be educated out of this nonsense, and a significant portion can't be because they're either too set in their ways or have adopted an almost cult-like mentality. The best we can do is improve child education and hope that the next generation is less susceptible to Breitbart, Fox News, and Alex Jones. But Republicans in general have been convinced by their own establishment to vote against their own interests for decades--union busting, crappy education reforms, tax breaks for the rich, crappy health care reforms, etc.
posted by xyzzy at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
The deplorables need to be educated out of this nonsense, and a significant portion can't be because they're either too set in their ways or have adopted an almost cult-like mentality. The best we can do is improve child education and hope that the next generation is less susceptible to Breitbart, Fox News, and Alex Jones. But Republicans in general have been convinced by their own establishment to vote against their own interests for decades--union busting, crappy education reforms, tax breaks for the rich, crappy health care reforms, etc.
posted by xyzzy at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
I didn't know where else to post this, but I needed to share it with someone. posted by R.F.Simpson
I would hug you across the Internet were it possible--
We're gonna get through this thing & we're gonna win. Stand up for that kid & don't let the fucks get you down.
Glad you felt able to share that here. The personal stories about what's at stake in this deal for ordinary people are important stories to see and hear and know - it brings the immediacy of the situation home. Thanks.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
I would hug you across the Internet were it possible--
We're gonna get through this thing & we're gonna win. Stand up for that kid & don't let the fucks get you down.
Glad you felt able to share that here. The personal stories about what's at stake in this deal for ordinary people are important stories to see and hear and know - it brings the immediacy of the situation home. Thanks.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
OK, Hill is up.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2016
And it begins...
@brithume
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
posted by chris24 at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
@brithume
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
posted by chris24 at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Fucking consent. How does it work?
posted by tonycpsu at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [82 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [82 favorites]
Lots of national ads during the game. A TV doctor just told me to vote no on California prop 61. I'm in Tennessee.
Update: Now they've told me twice.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Update: Now they've told me twice.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm watching Game 6 of the NLCS and they've shown at least two attack ads on Clinton. In California.
Same in Oregon. And tired Benghazi ads, too. I guess the ads are national but guess what else?
The game is on Fox Sports 1. So the money's going to Rupert Murdoch. My guess is, some campaign strategiests are setting up their post-Trump employment prospects.
posted by msalt at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Same in Oregon. And tired Benghazi ads, too. I guess the ads are national but guess what else?
The game is on Fox Sports 1. So the money's going to Rupert Murdoch. My guess is, some campaign strategiests are setting up their post-Trump employment prospects.
posted by msalt at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Some people are just poor losers when they look at those debates" [real, Hillary]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2016
Jessica Drake is so brave to put herself out there. They're going to come at her with everything they have.
posted by frumiousb at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by frumiousb at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
Lots of national ads during the game. A TV doctor just told me to vote no on California prop 61. I'm in Tennessee.
Yeah, they just have to dump money at this point.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016
Yeah, they just have to dump money at this point.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016
> @brithume Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
Dear Brit Hume: She does a more honorable and honest job than you do, and deserves far more respect. Please go the fuck away.
posted by rtha at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [72 favorites]
Dear Brit Hume: She does a more honorable and honest job than you do, and deserves far more respect. Please go the fuck away.
posted by rtha at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [72 favorites]
Prop 61 is the one to control drug prices in California. Of course, Big Pharma is in bed with Fox and the MLB.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2016
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
You'd think that the die-hard capitalists would at least understand the notion that selling something is explicitly NOT an offer to give it away for free. It's the OPPOSITE of an offer to give it away for free. And they all quite explicitly support the right for businesses to turn away customers who're willing and able to pay, for any reason, for example to avoid selling wedding cakes to queer people. But suddenly we're talking about a woman and her actual bodily integrity and agency and not just a damn cake, well, her, she is obligated to make herself available to anybody who wants her, apparently. Funny thing, that.
posted by Sequence at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [132 favorites]
You'd think that the die-hard capitalists would at least understand the notion that selling something is explicitly NOT an offer to give it away for free. It's the OPPOSITE of an offer to give it away for free. And they all quite explicitly support the right for businesses to turn away customers who're willing and able to pay, for any reason, for example to avoid selling wedding cakes to queer people. But suddenly we're talking about a woman and her actual bodily integrity and agency and not just a damn cake, well, her, she is obligated to make herself available to anybody who wants her, apparently. Funny thing, that.
posted by Sequence at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2016 [132 favorites]
Pence is like the guy who follows the circus parade and sweeps up all the elephant shit.
That would be honest labor. But Pence is advocating that women seeking abortions be subjected to transvaginal ultrasound wands.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
That would be honest labor. But Pence is advocating that women seeking abortions be subjected to transvaginal ultrasound wands.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
So. I am going to vote. The Trump yard-signs have been most helpful in identifying downticket candidates I should not be voting for.
After I go to vote, in my sleepy little seaside New England town, I will either be in a fist fight or be shot or arrested or all three.
There's this asshole who shows up for every election with a drill-rifle, a mock M1-A1 Garand. It has a little orange bit at the muzzle to indicate it's a fake. Most folks won't know it's a fake, and I have seen my fellow townspeople nope the fuck out of there at a huge, hairy biker-dude with an olive-drab shovel-head Harley and that goddamn fake battle-rifle on election day.
This time, I'm with her, voting in a credible D at the top spot of the ballot, and then I will march out and ask him to stow the gun out of sight.
If he refuses? I'm huger and hairier. I will bust that drill rifle into bits and pieces on the spot like Pete Townshend. I'll stop when I'm knocked out, shot or arrested.
I am completely sick of their shit. It's impacting my kid's education and the goddamn library, because they bring awful people to scare away reasonable voters.
There's a bit of time between then and now, and I am sure I will talk myself down, but on election day, check the headlines. I will be headlining them by smashing a realistic-looking drill rifle to shit.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [101 favorites]
After I go to vote, in my sleepy little seaside New England town, I will either be in a fist fight or be shot or arrested or all three.
There's this asshole who shows up for every election with a drill-rifle, a mock M1-A1 Garand. It has a little orange bit at the muzzle to indicate it's a fake. Most folks won't know it's a fake, and I have seen my fellow townspeople nope the fuck out of there at a huge, hairy biker-dude with an olive-drab shovel-head Harley and that goddamn fake battle-rifle on election day.
This time, I'm with her, voting in a credible D at the top spot of the ballot, and then I will march out and ask him to stow the gun out of sight.
If he refuses? I'm huger and hairier. I will bust that drill rifle into bits and pieces on the spot like Pete Townshend. I'll stop when I'm knocked out, shot or arrested.
I am completely sick of their shit. It's impacting my kid's education and the goddamn library, because they bring awful people to scare away reasonable voters.
There's a bit of time between then and now, and I am sure I will talk myself down, but on election day, check the headlines. I will be headlining them by smashing a realistic-looking drill rifle to shit.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2016 [101 favorites]
I'm going to draw the wrath of the mods (or at least an eyeroll) by dredging up a discussion from the previous thread. Please indulge me (or not), but I didn't get to read the discussion until after it had been shut down by the mods, and I would respectfully submit that there's still something to be said.
Back in March when Nancy Reagan died, I remember seeing expressions of horror that Hillary Clinton had made that ill-advised statement about Nancy Reagan caring about AIDS issues. Clearly, anyone who had watched what the Reagan administration did during the AIDS crisis would have been horrified at that notion. So, Hillary Clinton tried to say something positive about Nancy Reagan, and it backfired. Good intentions, horrible results.
I heard about the whole sordid affair via Peter Staley's Facebook page. He was and is a big Hillary Clinton supporter, but the Reagan thing really shook him. Facebook search functions suck, so I can't quote him directly, but basically he was freaked out that she would say something like that. He also quoted Larry Kramer, another AIDS activist, to much the same effect. When the Clinton campaign issued their apologia, Staley and the other AIDS activists took it as a positive sign, but still didn't think it was enough.
Here's the thing though: The Clinton campaign didn't just tweet out a mea culpa. They set up a meeting with AIDS/HIV activists, and Clinton herself attended and engaged. I honestly don't care who crafted the initial statement. Whether it came from Clinton's own hand (keyboard), or was the result of a consensus response to the community, I take it at face value. She was genuinely contrite about the initial "gaff", and was sincerely apologelic.
posted by Surely This at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
Back in March when Nancy Reagan died, I remember seeing expressions of horror that Hillary Clinton had made that ill-advised statement about Nancy Reagan caring about AIDS issues. Clearly, anyone who had watched what the Reagan administration did during the AIDS crisis would have been horrified at that notion. So, Hillary Clinton tried to say something positive about Nancy Reagan, and it backfired. Good intentions, horrible results.
I heard about the whole sordid affair via Peter Staley's Facebook page. He was and is a big Hillary Clinton supporter, but the Reagan thing really shook him. Facebook search functions suck, so I can't quote him directly, but basically he was freaked out that she would say something like that. He also quoted Larry Kramer, another AIDS activist, to much the same effect. When the Clinton campaign issued their apologia, Staley and the other AIDS activists took it as a positive sign, but still didn't think it was enough.
Here's the thing though: The Clinton campaign didn't just tweet out a mea culpa. They set up a meeting with AIDS/HIV activists, and Clinton herself attended and engaged. I honestly don't care who crafted the initial statement. Whether it came from Clinton's own hand (keyboard), or was the result of a consensus response to the community, I take it at face value. She was genuinely contrite about the initial "gaff", and was sincerely apologelic.
posted by Surely This at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
She's gotten to be a way more effective speaker in the last few months. The SNL character is lagging there.
She also clearly appreciates Tim's chops. (Seriously, find me a picture where she's happier)
This is a person who's on top of her game, knows there are betters, and knows she just hired him.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
She also clearly appreciates Tim's chops. (Seriously, find me a picture where she's happier)
This is a person who's on top of her game, knows there are betters, and knows she just hired him.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just to come back to how awful an idea this is, Carter and Reagan already tried it in the late 70s and early 80s
We've also had de facto hiring freezes for long stints under Obama (not because of him) as a result of the sequester and constant continuing resolutions.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
We've also had de facto hiring freezes for long stints under Obama (not because of him) as a result of the sequester and constant continuing resolutions.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Any scientists in this thread who relies on NIH funding?
Zero data and candidate inconsistency makes it difficult to make projections, but any feelings for what might happen to science funding if each candidate?
posted by porpoise at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Zero data and candidate inconsistency makes it difficult to make projections, but any feelings for what might happen to science funding if each candidate?
posted by porpoise at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hillary is just killing it here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2016
"Its a crossroads election, because there are no more different visions than me and Donald Trump's."
47246 to get involved...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
47246 to get involved...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lots of national ads during the game. A TV doctor just told me to vote no on California prop 61. I'm in Tennessee.
Yeah, they just have to dump money at this point.
Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, they just have to dump money at this point.
Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Prop 61 is the one to control drug prices in California. Of course, Big Pharma is in bed with Fox and the MLB.
You know, if big pharma could get a guarantee that formularies would include new clinically proven drug in a field were current standard of treatment is palliative care they might actually go for some level of price control. Depressing, no? (Meetings with clinicians were a lot more enjoyable.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2016
You know, if big pharma could get a guarantee that formularies would include new clinically proven drug in a field were current standard of treatment is palliative care they might actually go for some level of price control. Depressing, no? (Meetings with clinicians were a lot more enjoyable.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2016
We've also had de facto hiring freezes for long stints under Obama (not because of him) as a result of the sequester and constant continuing resolutions.
I read a book recently which was interviewing conservatives in the US South, and one of the questions they asked their subjects was what percentage of people in the US they thought worked for the federal government. The answers were uniformly above 30% and many people thought it was more like 40% of workers who work at the federal level. (the truth is something like 1.9%). There also appeared to be a great deal of anger that these federal government workers had much better job protection and pension than the people in the "free market". So I suppose the nonsense about hiring freezes isn't about hiring freezes-- it's playing into the fears that the political class is huge, and has access to protections not available to all, and is essentially only protecting itself in national elections. A kind of coded shout out which will sincerely play very well to the target audience.
posted by frumiousb at 7:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
I read a book recently which was interviewing conservatives in the US South, and one of the questions they asked their subjects was what percentage of people in the US they thought worked for the federal government. The answers were uniformly above 30% and many people thought it was more like 40% of workers who work at the federal level. (the truth is something like 1.9%). There also appeared to be a great deal of anger that these federal government workers had much better job protection and pension than the people in the "free market". So I suppose the nonsense about hiring freezes isn't about hiring freezes-- it's playing into the fears that the political class is huge, and has access to protections not available to all, and is essentially only protecting itself in national elections. A kind of coded shout out which will sincerely play very well to the target audience.
posted by frumiousb at 7:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?
You have no idea what's in play at this point. Do a national ad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:22 PM on October 22, 2016
You have no idea what's in play at this point. Do a national ad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:22 PM on October 22, 2016
I started working for the I.R.S. as a tax examiner; I was there during the Reagan years and benefitted directly from the hiring freeze. PCs were infiltrating the organization and nobody knew what to do with them. Thanks to Reagan they couldn't hire anyone who did. There was a scramble to turn "smart white boys" into technicians. I was one of them. I ended up having a long and profitable career in IT, but every bit of training I received was paid for by the organization and everything I learned was learned just in time.
posted by teirnon at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by teirnon at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?
This series has had massive ratings. I bet more CA residents are watching this than anything else right now, and cable networks don't do local ads, so...
posted by dirigibleman at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
This series has had massive ratings. I bet more CA residents are watching this than anything else right now, and cable networks don't do local ads, so...
posted by dirigibleman at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
porpoise
Arstechnia has an article on this: Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump on science, energy, and the climate. Also: The next President will take power with significant space decisions looming
posted by michswiss at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Arstechnia has an article on this: Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump on science, energy, and the climate. Also: The next President will take power with significant space decisions looming
posted by michswiss at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why the hell not. Knock yourselves out.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Can you elaborate? I understand the idea of spending everything you've got for the end of the race, but are there really no better ways to target your actual voters?
For California, which is so huge it probably has two if not three distinct TV markets for ad buys, it might actually be easier to just buy a national spot for a program that you know is playing in all states if you have the cash to burn, than trying to buy spots for the same add in all the different markets. Or just that they couldn't get any local spots last minute and had the money to go national instead.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
For California, which is so huge it probably has two if not three distinct TV markets for ad buys, it might actually be easier to just buy a national spot for a program that you know is playing in all states if you have the cash to burn, than trying to buy spots for the same add in all the different markets. Or just that they couldn't get any local spots last minute and had the money to go national instead.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
...on election day, check the headlines. I will be headlining them by smashing a realistic-looking drill rifle to shit.
Slap*happy, please do not initiate violence at a polling place. In addition to all the usual arguments against violence, you may prevent people from voting.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Slap*happy, please do not initiate violence at a polling place. In addition to all the usual arguments against violence, you may prevent people from voting.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
There's this asshole who shows up for every election with a drill-rifle, a mock M1-A1 Garand. It has a little orange bit at the muzzle to indicate it's a fake. Most folks won't know it's a fake, and I have seen my fellow townspeople nope the fuck out of there at a huge, hairy biker-dude with an olive-drab shovel-head Harley and that goddamn fake battle-rifle on election day.
Stand next to him with a big sign that says 'Don't mind him, he's trying to intimidate you with a fake gun'. And then never engage with him.
posted by BlueDuke at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [120 favorites]
Stand next to him with a big sign that says 'Don't mind him, he's trying to intimidate you with a fake gun'. And then never engage with him.
posted by BlueDuke at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2016 [120 favorites]
Yeah, don't get eponysterical. We want you here with us. Enjoy the fall air, enjoy your vote, you'll feel better when you've done your part in the booth.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Any scientists in this thread who relies on NIH funding?
I am 100% NIH funded. My 5 year competitive renewal is next year. I'm not the slightest bit worried if HRC is elected, she has already given her plan for increased funding in my area. Also, I'm pretty sure that the novel work we're doing is exactly what they are looking to fund and expand. If DJT had a chance, I'd be looking for something new very quickly.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
I am 100% NIH funded. My 5 year competitive renewal is next year. I'm not the slightest bit worried if HRC is elected, she has already given her plan for increased funding in my area. Also, I'm pretty sure that the novel work we're doing is exactly what they are looking to fund and expand. If DJT had a chance, I'd be looking for something new very quickly.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Page Six: Trump advisers went to strip club night before last debate
Sources said that Trump campaign senior communications adviser Jason Miller — along with female colleagues including senior adviser and surrogate A.J. Delgado and deputy communications director Jessica Ditto — went with several members of the media from networks, including CNN, NBC and ABC, to Sapphire Las Vegas Strip Club before the big night. With “70,000 square feet of topless entertainment and serving the finest variety of cocktails,” Sin City’s Sapphire bills itself as the largest strip club in the world.posted by acidic at 7:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
The group that went out with the Trump aides included CNN producer Noah Gray, NBC News reporter Anthony Terrell and a “camerman” from ABC News, sources said. Before the field trip with the media, Miller tweeted, “Yet more evidence of a media-rigged election,” with a link about WikiLeaks and Clinton.
Slap*happy, please do not initiate violence at a polling place.
This is why I love Metafilter! OK. I'll do theft instead. I'll pick it up and take it with me as I leave, as casual as you please. Much better plan.
I'll dump it in the bay while strolling on the very nice bike-and-pedestrian-path over the bridge halfway between here and the Island, provided I am allowed to make it that far.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is why I love Metafilter! OK. I'll do theft instead. I'll pick it up and take it with me as I leave, as casual as you please. Much better plan.
I'll dump it in the bay while strolling on the very nice bike-and-pedestrian-path over the bridge halfway between here and the Island, provided I am allowed to make it that far.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I know this is not a novel sentiment, but seriously, fuck those hypocrites.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Why would these tv news purple think it's a good idea to go to a strip club with Trump campaign staffers? Are they...stupid?
posted by medusa at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by medusa at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
> This time, I'm with her, voting in a credible D at the top spot of the ballot, and then I will march out and ask him to stow the gun out of sight.
Slap*Happy, please make yourself a big ole sign that says THIS GUN IS FAKE AND THIS MAN IS HERE TO INTIMIDATE YOU OUT OF EXERCISING YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and stand near him (out of punching range. Please do not speak to him or look at him or initiate any contact with him). And before you do this, call your local election board or even your state's National Lawyers Guild and ask them about the process for reporting interference with voters.
posted by rtha at 7:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
Slap*Happy, please make yourself a big ole sign that says THIS GUN IS FAKE AND THIS MAN IS HERE TO INTIMIDATE YOU OUT OF EXERCISING YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and stand near him (out of punching range. Please do not speak to him or look at him or initiate any contact with him). And before you do this, call your local election board or even your state's National Lawyers Guild and ask them about the process for reporting interference with voters.
posted by rtha at 7:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
> Why would these tv news purple think it's a good idea to go to a strip club with Trump campaign staffers? Are they...stupid?
Yes?
posted by mrzarquon at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Yes?
posted by mrzarquon at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Free Booze is a hell of a drug.
posted by mikelieman at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Stand next to him with a big sign that says 'Don't mind him, he's trying to intimidate you with a fake gun'. And then never engage with him.
Yeah, this is a much better idea. A struggle or a fight or destruction of property is fun for people like that, plus he gets to play the victim. Public ridicule for carrying a child's toy around as if it were real, that's the kind of thing that'll sting for years.
posted by No-sword at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
Yeah, this is a much better idea. A struggle or a fight or destruction of property is fun for people like that, plus he gets to play the victim. Public ridicule for carrying a child's toy around as if it were real, that's the kind of thing that'll sting for years.
posted by No-sword at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
> This series has had massive ratings. I bet more CA residents are watching this than anything else right now, and cable networks don't do local ads, so...
BEAT L.A.!!!
/Giants fan
posted by rtha at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
BEAT L.A.!!!
/Giants fan
posted by rtha at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
corb: But I flat-out do not understand people who actually say they hope the deplorables continue, or they hope they continue to make up 25% of the GOP, because if the deplorables as they stand become an open, permanent part of American politics, that isn't moderate chaos, that's country-on-fire chaos, resurgence-of-KKK chaos, horrible-for-everyone chaos.
[...]
I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something. Because I don't know if I am strong enough to go out every day and keep my head up and dream of a better life if 70% of the country is willing to tolerate this...
Firstly, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to come at you, and I think I understand your feeling of -- despondency? Is that a fair word to use? about the possibility that significant numbers of liberals/Democrats are just pretty happy to watch the GOP burn and damn the consequences for both non-Deplorable GOPers and for minorities and others who are threatened by the open Trumpism that's been unleashed.
That being said: You said that "they hope the Deplorables continue". My view is that hope has not much to do with it; there's a significant bloc of voters in this country that genuinely hold these views and they seem to be relatively impervious to any appeal to logic, reason, faith, emotion, authority, justice, loving-kindness or shared humanity as far as I can see [1]. So the question is, how can we have a functional politics in this situation?
Percentages are important here, precisely because our system of government distributes authority by a series of winner-take-all elections -- somewhat roughly speaking, a winner-take-all election for President [2]; 100 elections for the upper house; 435 elections for the lower house, etc.
If Deplorables made up, say, 5-10% of the population, we could safely ignore them. They'd maybe be marginally relevant behind the scenes or in House races in specific regions, but in order for them to significantly influence policy they would need to be able to win quite a lot of non-Deplorables to their cause. Even if they all gravitated to one political party, they would still only make up 10-20% of the party [3].
But the Deplorables are more like 27% (I think it’s more like 20%, actually, but the exact number isn’t necessary for my argument). The key is, it’s enough for them to control one party if
George W. Bush turned the lights out on this political era inaugurated by Richard Nixon. I think he came into office genuinely wanting to build a durable, “compassionate conservative” permanent majority that could continue to bring Latinos and Catholics into the Republican fold. But the failures of the Iraq War, the Hurricane Katrina disaster and (in ’07) the defeat of comprehensive immigration reform led to consecutive Democratic victories in ’06 and ’08. The Deplorables were now all stranded in opposition. It’s not a coincidence that this emerging Democratic majority coalition was led by the first female Speaker of the House and the first African-American president.
From there, the trend lines lead directly to a Donald Trump. With each passing year, more and more moderates have walked away from the Republican Party; traditional elites were replaced by hardline ideologues (a process that began in 1994, actually), and even that cohort of ideologues (Boehner, Ryan) have now been flanked by leaders who are tossing aside the dogwhistles of yesteryear to echo more fully the bellowing of their Deplorable base. The only possible opposition in the GOP, the Evangelical wing, has now been neutered, too. How long will the GOP take to come back now? And can the country, now fully aware that its visor shields the gaze of fascism, gallantly afford to step back and to let the once-great Party of Lincoln grope to its feet?
The Republican Party is now the party of fascists and fascist-enablers. I don’t know what happens next, but I believe we need a government of national unity, and that means a Democratic victory that’s as broad and deep and durable as is possible.
[1] My philosophical and religious presuppositions don't actually allow me to consider the 'deplorables' utterly beyond the reach of grace; but I have to confess that I don't know how to make that happen.
[2] I know, I know. I don't need to mansplain the Electoral College here, ok? :)
[3] Assuming Duverger’s Law -- that winner-take-all electoral democracies system tend toward a two-party system.
[4] Though from 1968 on, this bloc was often able to stop forward progress on these issues by legislative means; most of the progress we’ve seen since then came through the courts and through the typically slower processes of cultural change.
[5] The first being the election of 1860.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]
[...]
I am hoping desperately that if there are Democrats excited to have Trump in public life, increasing racial hatred and violence by the day, as long as the Republicans choke on it, that they are a tiny minority, not like another secret 35% lying in wait or something. Because I don't know if I am strong enough to go out every day and keep my head up and dream of a better life if 70% of the country is willing to tolerate this...
Firstly, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to come at you, and I think I understand your feeling of -- despondency? Is that a fair word to use? about the possibility that significant numbers of liberals/Democrats are just pretty happy to watch the GOP burn and damn the consequences for both non-Deplorable GOPers and for minorities and others who are threatened by the open Trumpism that's been unleashed.
That being said: You said that "they hope the Deplorables continue". My view is that hope has not much to do with it; there's a significant bloc of voters in this country that genuinely hold these views and they seem to be relatively impervious to any appeal to logic, reason, faith, emotion, authority, justice, loving-kindness or shared humanity as far as I can see [1]. So the question is, how can we have a functional politics in this situation?
Percentages are important here, precisely because our system of government distributes authority by a series of winner-take-all elections -- somewhat roughly speaking, a winner-take-all election for President [2]; 100 elections for the upper house; 435 elections for the lower house, etc.
If Deplorables made up, say, 5-10% of the population, we could safely ignore them. They'd maybe be marginally relevant behind the scenes or in House races in specific regions, but in order for them to significantly influence policy they would need to be able to win quite a lot of non-Deplorables to their cause. Even if they all gravitated to one political party, they would still only make up 10-20% of the party [3].
But the Deplorables are more like 27% (I think it’s more like 20%, actually, but the exact number isn’t necessary for my argument). The key is, it’s enough for them to control one party if
(a) the vast majority participate in one party andFor most of modern (say, post-WWII) history, these two conditions haven’t obtained. They transitioned from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party over the course of the 60s and 70s, but even as they consolidated in the GOP, traditional Republican elites were able to maintain control of the party by pandering just enough to them (and to the reactionary Christian right) to get their votes, while not actively moving the country backwards on race and gender equality issues. [4] Or to put it more bluntly, there were always enough people in the GOP who didn’t agree with the Deplorables, or who understood that open Deplorability was electoral suicide, to keep them in check.
(b) they are able to exercise a veto over the actions of the entire party.
George W. Bush turned the lights out on this political era inaugurated by Richard Nixon. I think he came into office genuinely wanting to build a durable, “compassionate conservative” permanent majority that could continue to bring Latinos and Catholics into the Republican fold. But the failures of the Iraq War, the Hurricane Katrina disaster and (in ’07) the defeat of comprehensive immigration reform led to consecutive Democratic victories in ’06 and ’08. The Deplorables were now all stranded in opposition. It’s not a coincidence that this emerging Democratic majority coalition was led by the first female Speaker of the House and the first African-American president.
From there, the trend lines lead directly to a Donald Trump. With each passing year, more and more moderates have walked away from the Republican Party; traditional elites were replaced by hardline ideologues (a process that began in 1994, actually), and even that cohort of ideologues (Boehner, Ryan) have now been flanked by leaders who are tossing aside the dogwhistles of yesteryear to echo more fully the bellowing of their Deplorable base. The only possible opposition in the GOP, the Evangelical wing, has now been neutered, too. How long will the GOP take to come back now? And can the country, now fully aware that its visor shields the gaze of fascism, gallantly afford to step back and to let the once-great Party of Lincoln grope to its feet?
The Republican Party is now the party of fascists and fascist-enablers. I don’t know what happens next, but I believe we need a government of national unity, and that means a Democratic victory that’s as broad and deep and durable as is possible.
[1] My philosophical and religious presuppositions don't actually allow me to consider the 'deplorables' utterly beyond the reach of grace; but I have to confess that I don't know how to make that happen.
[2] I know, I know. I don't need to mansplain the Electoral College here, ok? :)
[3] Assuming Duverger’s Law -- that winner-take-all electoral democracies system tend toward a two-party system.
[4] Though from 1968 on, this bloc was often able to stop forward progress on these issues by legislative means; most of the progress we’ve seen since then came through the courts and through the typically slower processes of cultural change.
[5] The first being the election of 1860.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [35 favorites]
Public ridicule for carrying a child's toy around as if it were real, that's the kind of thing that'll sting for years.
Yesssssssss....
"FAKE GUN. CRAP HARLEY, WORSE PAINT. VOTE D AND VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY."
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Yesssssssss....
"FAKE GUN. CRAP HARLEY, WORSE PAINT. VOTE D AND VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY."
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
Yeah, the game that could send the Cubs to the WS or keep the Dodgers alive is going to get a big CA audience and a big national audience. (It's not going directly to Murdoch, is it? It's going to cable providers like -- oh noes! -- Comcast who pay a fixed fee to carry Fox Sports 1. Please correct me if you know this stuff.)
I'm more curious if there are national buys during SNL.
Picking up on what happens to the deplorables. If you go with the cult model, which I think applies here, then some will be revising their Twitter bios and names, but others will double down. There'll also be lots of direct blame at the institutional GOP leadership, even though it's state and local parties who are carrying the GOTV load because Trump couldn't be bothered. Then there'll be those who abandon Fox News for Breitbart and InfoWars and maybe a hypothetical TrumpTV.
That possibly gives the institutional GOP the space to say "you hate us even though we carried most of the burden for Trump, so STFU."
That's where it gets really interesting, because do Jones and the head Breitbarters sign on with Trump, knowing exactly what he is in terms of offloading the risk on joint ventures and stiffing the people who sign on with him?
posted by holgate at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm more curious if there are national buys during SNL.
Picking up on what happens to the deplorables. If you go with the cult model, which I think applies here, then some will be revising their Twitter bios and names, but others will double down. There'll also be lots of direct blame at the institutional GOP leadership, even though it's state and local parties who are carrying the GOTV load because Trump couldn't be bothered. Then there'll be those who abandon Fox News for Breitbart and InfoWars and maybe a hypothetical TrumpTV.
That possibly gives the institutional GOP the space to say "you hate us even though we carried most of the burden for Trump, so STFU."
That's where it gets really interesting, because do Jones and the head Breitbarters sign on with Trump, knowing exactly what he is in terms of offloading the risk on joint ventures and stiffing the people who sign on with him?
posted by holgate at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is why I love Metafilter! OK. I'll do theft instead.
I'm hoping to bargain you down to jaywalking.
This is why we have real/fake tags, people.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm hoping to bargain you down to jaywalking.
This is why we have real/fake tags, people.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
For California, which is so huge it probably has two if not three distinct TV markets for ad buys
Los Angeles, 5.5milion TV households; San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, 2.4million; Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, 1.2million; San Diego, 1million and seven other "TV markets" separate enough to have their own affiliates for ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC. California has 12% of the American population (38 million of 318 million). A lot of audience split up a lot of ways. Considering that well over half the audience of any political TV spot is not going to vote (underage, non-citizens, apathetic), it's not that bad a deal for California (and Big Pharma runs a LOT of TV spots for products 90% of the audience never use). For other states, less so. Tell me if you see something for a proposition in North Dakota.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:51 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Los Angeles, 5.5milion TV households; San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, 2.4million; Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, 1.2million; San Diego, 1million and seven other "TV markets" separate enough to have their own affiliates for ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC. California has 12% of the American population (38 million of 318 million). A lot of audience split up a lot of ways. Considering that well over half the audience of any political TV spot is not going to vote (underage, non-citizens, apathetic), it's not that bad a deal for California (and Big Pharma runs a LOT of TV spots for products 90% of the audience never use). For other states, less so. Tell me if you see something for a proposition in North Dakota.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:51 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
There are fireworks going off across Chicago right now.
Not to tempt fate, but oddly on topic: historically years in which the Cubs went to the World Series were also not good years for fascists....
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]
Not to tempt fate, but oddly on topic: historically years in which the Cubs went to the World Series were also not good years for fascists....
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2016 [29 favorites]
What happens in Vegas, stays on the historical record of the Hillary Clinton landslide.
This plays into both sides' narratives, kinda. (Sheesh.) What an election this has been. Here's hoping the next one is boring and normal.
posted by notyou at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2016
This plays into both sides' narratives, kinda. (Sheesh.) What an election this has been. Here's hoping the next one is boring and normal.
posted by notyou at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2016
You've got to be rooting for Chicago. The last time they won a WS, women couldn't vote. It's just fitting that their next one will be the week before we elect a woman to the White House, right?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Not to tempt fate, but oddly on topic: historically years in which the Cubs went to the World Series were also not good years for fascists....
I'm pretty sure the sample size is too small to be statistically significant. My dad has been a big Cubs fan for a least fifty years. I expressed concern that them actually going to the World Series might ruin the whole essence of Cubbie fandom. He seems to have made peace with that risk.
posted by msalt at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the sample size is too small to be statistically significant. My dad has been a big Cubs fan for a least fifty years. I expressed concern that them actually going to the World Series might ruin the whole essence of Cubbie fandom. He seems to have made peace with that risk.
posted by msalt at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
And you have to be rooting against the Cleveland Racist Images, no matter how much a swing state Ohio is.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Who put this baseball in my politics?
posted by medusa at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by medusa at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Last baseball derail from me, via Twitter: Its been 108 years since Cubs won the World Series. 108 years before that, Jefferson defeated Adams to become our third President.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
expressed concern that them actually going to the World Series might ruin the whole essence of Cubbie fandom. He seems to have made peace with that risk.
Red Sox fan here. Trust me, it doesn't. At least not enough to matter.
posted by anastasiav at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Red Sox fan here. Trust me, it doesn't. At least not enough to matter.
posted by anastasiav at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
Yeah, the game that could send the Cubs to the WS or keep the Dodgers alive is going to get a big CA audience and a big national audience.
California D +25%
Illinois D +17%
I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:01 PM on October 22, 2016
California D +25%
Illinois D +17%
I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:01 PM on October 22, 2016
Adorable pic of Hillary watching the Cubs win!
@NickMerrill
That look when you cap off a day on the trail by watching the @Cubs cement their trip to the #WorldSeries. #FlyTheW pic.twitter.com/94KMWpKHwe
posted by acidic at 8:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
@NickMerrill
That look when you cap off a day on the trail by watching the @Cubs cement their trip to the #WorldSeries. #FlyTheW pic.twitter.com/94KMWpKHwe
posted by acidic at 8:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
Theo vs. Tito. As a Sawx die-hard, this is very cool.
I want them both back.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I want them both back.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.
The audience wanting to see if the Cubs won the pennant is... not confined to IL and CA. And we're also talking about some CA-specific ads for propositions that have nothing to do with the horserace.
The Cubs' owners are the Ricketts family which includes the GOP governor of Nebraska (though not his wife) and other prominent donors to the GOP and Trump. On the other hand, Trump said earlier this year that the Cubs sucked when various Ricketts family members were funding other GOP primary candidates. "Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party) so, anyway, yay Cubs fans who are not mega-rich Republicans.
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The audience wanting to see if the Cubs won the pennant is... not confined to IL and CA. And we're also talking about some CA-specific ads for propositions that have nothing to do with the horserace.
The Cubs' owners are the Ricketts family which includes the GOP governor of Nebraska (though not his wife) and other prominent donors to the GOP and Trump. On the other hand, Trump said earlier this year that the Cubs sucked when various Ricketts family members were funding other GOP primary candidates. "Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party) so, anyway, yay Cubs fans who are not mega-rich Republicans.
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know that I'd have plowed a lot of money into the Dodgers-Cubs game.
Well they're talking about a CA prop so it's probably one of the better ones.
posted by Talez at 8:21 PM on October 22, 2016
Well they're talking about a CA prop so it's probably one of the better ones.
posted by Talez at 8:21 PM on October 22, 2016
"Red Sox fan here. Trust me, it doesn't. At least not enough to matter."
Mariners fan here would like to verify that someday.
Anyway. On topic. I voted this week! I moved to Georgia less than a month ago, immediately registered, and did early voting this week. I think this is the proudest and most excited I have been about voting since my very first election [mumble] years ago. I even got a cute little peach sticker that says "I'm a Georgia Voter."
I just moved away from Seattle, so I don't get to blacken Tim Eyman's eyes metaphorically via my votes any more... but I may get to help swing a red state to blue, which is probably more satisfying. ;) Washingtonians, fight the good fight for me... Georgians, let's turn this place deep blue!
posted by litlnemo at 8:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Mariners fan here would like to verify that someday.
Anyway. On topic. I voted this week! I moved to Georgia less than a month ago, immediately registered, and did early voting this week. I think this is the proudest and most excited I have been about voting since my very first election [mumble] years ago. I even got a cute little peach sticker that says "I'm a Georgia Voter."
I just moved away from Seattle, so I don't get to blacken Tim Eyman's eyes metaphorically via my votes any more... but I may get to help swing a red state to blue, which is probably more satisfying. ;) Washingtonians, fight the good fight for me... Georgians, let's turn this place deep blue!
posted by litlnemo at 8:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Tom Hanks as Chris Wallace in another debate SNL cold open.
posted by chris24 at 8:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:30 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Tom Hanks as Chris Wallace for the cold open of SNL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
NBC Chicago is delaying SNL to show the Cubs celebration. They promise to show the episode in its entirety, I'm happy to be able to see both!
posted by slmorri at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by slmorri at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
along with female colleagues including senior adviser and surrogate A.J. Delgado and deputy communications director Jessica Ditto — went with several members of the media from networks, including CNN, NBC and ABC, to Sapphire Las Vegas Strip Club before the big night. With “70,000 square feet of topless entertainment and serving the finest variety of cocktails,” Sin City’s Sapphire bills itself as the largest strip club in the world.
I'm having one of those moments of *aren't those women colleagues freaked out by this shit? can they not get better jobs* moments that I've had frequently w/r/t the Trump campaign. I mean, I don't have any anger at topless bars, really, but having to work in that highly sexualized environment? Ugh. Phhht.
posted by angrycat at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm having one of those moments of *aren't those women colleagues freaked out by this shit? can they not get better jobs* moments that I've had frequently w/r/t the Trump campaign. I mean, I don't have any anger at topless bars, really, but having to work in that highly sexualized environment? Ugh. Phhht.
posted by angrycat at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hey, I can be delighted by the dismantling of the political party that has targeted me and my family my entire life AND terrified by the fast-zombie horror that is doing the dismantling AND incredibly sad for all the people being hurt by said fast-zombie horror, all at the same time, because I am a complex human person and I contain multitudes.
And I'm damn well going to cling to any shitty little excuse for a silver lining I can find in 2016.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
And I'm damn well going to cling to any shitty little excuse for a silver lining I can find in 2016.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [17 favorites]
SNL cold open focuses on the third debate. Baldwin doubles down on the sniffles and gets some truly glurgy ones in.
posted by mochapickle at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mochapickle at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
roomthreeseventeen: “Last baseball derail from me, via Twitter: Its been 108 years since Cubs won the World Series. 108 years before that, Jefferson defeated Adams to become our third President.”“Direct quote from Nostradamus: "When the small bears from the windy place take the flag, woe unto all, for the end is nigh." #EndTimes”— AWhitneyBrown (@TheWhitneyBrown) October 12, 2016
posted by ob1quixote at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Mediaite has the SNL Cold Open video.
While you're there, read 'You Look Like a Woman!’: Mob of Trump Supporters Hurls Abuse at CNN’s Jim Acosta. Sopan Deb would like to be clear that these are grown adults yelling these kinds of insults.
posted by zachlipton at 8:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
While you're there, read 'You Look Like a Woman!’: Mob of Trump Supporters Hurls Abuse at CNN’s Jim Acosta. Sopan Deb would like to be clear that these are grown adults yelling these kinds of insults.
posted by zachlipton at 8:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder if Clinton's reference to "disagreeing without being disagreeable" was a callout to the Suzette Haden Elgin book.
posted by Lexica at 8:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 8:56 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think the Black Jeopardy skit was better (and cleverer) than the cold open.
posted by holgate at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by holgate at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
"Yeah, it's something, huh? Who would've thought? 100 to 1 shot! I wish I could go back to the beginning of the season, and put some money on the Cubs."
posted by leotrotsky at 9:05 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 9:05 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
One thing that is giving me hope is that Obama has quietly announced his post-Presidential focus will be a 50 State response to take back states which Democrats have mostly given up on in anticipation of 2020 and drawing new boundaries. Clinton's already included nationwide automatic voter registration as one of her planks, and an anti-gerrymandering move would dovetail perfectly with that.
What gives me hope is that Obama will be at the head, because he's demonstrated numerous times that he is a centrist, and what a "fix the voting system" project needs is a real centrist who won't try to weight the voting for any side, but rather to weight it toward Truth. To make is a true reflection of the country. Democrats have as much a history of gerrymandering as Republicans, but if we can come up with an algorithmic means of dividing up the country so that it resists gerrymandering, than maybe we can re-enfranchise the half of the population who have given up on voting.
I can't see Republicans, as they are now, cooperating with that. I hope it changes.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
What gives me hope is that Obama will be at the head, because he's demonstrated numerous times that he is a centrist, and what a "fix the voting system" project needs is a real centrist who won't try to weight the voting for any side, but rather to weight it toward Truth. To make is a true reflection of the country. Democrats have as much a history of gerrymandering as Republicans, but if we can come up with an algorithmic means of dividing up the country so that it resists gerrymandering, than maybe we can re-enfranchise the half of the population who have given up on voting.
I can't see Republicans, as they are now, cooperating with that. I hope it changes.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
Why would these tv news purple think it's a good idea to go to a strip club with Trump campaign staffers? Are they...stupid?
Next thing you know, the tv news people will be caught going to a furniture store with Trump campaign staffers.
posted by juiceCake at 9:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Next thing you know, the tv news people will be caught going to a furniture store with Trump campaign staffers.
posted by juiceCake at 9:10 PM on October 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
Free Booze is a hell of a drug.
I'm sure there's a weird Stockholm Syndrome thing between certain campaign people and news people who've been on the Trump beat for a year -- especially crew, producers, etc. -- or it's like the wolf and the dog in the cartoon. Or Dog Day Afternoon. Stupid, but perhaps predictably stupid?
posted by holgate at 9:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sure there's a weird Stockholm Syndrome thing between certain campaign people and news people who've been on the Trump beat for a year -- especially crew, producers, etc. -- or it's like the wolf and the dog in the cartoon. Or Dog Day Afternoon. Stupid, but perhaps predictably stupid?
posted by holgate at 9:14 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thank you, MeFites, for being a clear stream in year of incredible hubris.
My post upthread got me thinking how I got from the political environment I was raised to this point where it looks as if the first female president is going to be elected. I feel compelled to share as I am realizing how pivotal for all of us. And to honor one woman who I was raised to believe was evil.
My post upthread tells I was raised in a "pro-life" family. In the 70's We would march on the state capitol in Sacramento every January 22, picket local Planned Parenthood events, have booths at county fairs and offer last second counsuling to women about to have an abortion. (The Catholic Charities office was next door to the local abortion clnic. My mom would have a sandwich board outside offering her services every Tuesday evening)
The de facto feminist and Planned Parenthood leader at that time was a woman named Beverly Fitch McCarthy. She was the focus of our picketing and invective. She was our Hillary
The first major crack came in 1982. I was 19. Gore Vidal's run for U.S. Senate broke the trance. First time I heard truth being spoken to power and that my "questioning" was being a met by a politician.
In 1983, I became friends with a vietnam vet at a local club. He was a guy's guy. Sweet man. One night he invited my best friend and I to dinner. They were late and apologize. They were members of the board for the local Planned Parenthood and the meeting had run late. It was a Studs Turkel moment. "Wait. These people aren't evil. I like them"
My first election was 1984. I voted for Reagan. I tipped more in 1986 via an excellent sociology class at UCLA and a relationship with an activist actress.
I graduated with a BA in history from UCLA in 1987. In 1988, a cycling accident and major head injuries was the final wake-up call. I broke with my family, left the church, dropped out, became a yogi and spent the next 3-4 years studying progressive and feminist history and theory.
In 2000, I went "dark" politically. I was fed up with my democratic friends as the tone of their argument against my thoughts on how the Nader could be recognized and not at the expense of Gore. I vowed never to tell an adult who I voted for. Only children if they asked as they were the ones who deserved to know. I voted because I still believed it is a powerful act. Republicans thought I was Republican. Democrats thought I was Democrat.
This cycle I outed myself. I said I was voting the court and not the candidate. The constitution and not the ideology. This meant Clinton as it would be a Democratic president that would appoint the liberal judges to keep the the government as close to center as possible based on the tendency for governors/house go RED, senate/prez go Blue.
The RNC sickened me. While raised in Birch/Tea Party mindset and having separated from it long ago. There was also the Republicanism I knew when I was 6 years old. The party that started with Lincoln and was the party of my hero, Teddy Roosevelt. It was sad and embarrassing.
Since my accident in 88' I have had good, strong woman as partners. I stood by 2 of them as they went through cancer. One made it. One didn't. I honestly say that I improved with each relationship, became more open, less angry and absolute, a better partner and a better man.
I read this thread last night. There was a post about HRC's team masterful use of symbology that harkened to suffragette history and along with overt references to the Catholic Church. Even if one is a lapsed catholic, ritual and symbology still have great meaning. I thought of Beverly Fitch McCarthy, how I and my family treated her. I googled her. I found her page on the Veterans Feminists of America. She is still alive, 81 YO, living in the same town and is as vibrant and as active as ever. It became crystal clear. This woman fought in the trenches for 60 years in a conservative city for woman's rights. I and my family were Trump to her Hilary Clinton.She was one in a long list of fighters, including (in her own aberrated way) my mom. I felt how deeply powerful and meaningful it will be it when Hillary gets elected. I can feel incredible appreciation for the feminist movement for having built structures and support so that I can become a better man, partner, friend and human being.
I am going to contact her after election day to tell her who I am, thank her for all the devotion, work and consciousness raising she brought to the community and how happy I am she got to see this day.
Her story is here. She is truly a lovely woman http://www.vfa.us/Beverly_Fitch_McCarthy.htm
posted by goalyeehah at 9:21 PM on October 22, 2016 [115 favorites]
Anyway, Mediaite put up 'Black Jeopardy', and if you missed it, do take a peek, because it taps into something profound. (It reminds me of Charles Barkley's conversation with Isaac Chotiner back in 2007.)
And Leslie Jones on Weekend Update about hacking is incredible.
posted by holgate at 9:27 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
And Leslie Jones on Weekend Update about hacking is incredible.
posted by holgate at 9:27 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.
Double check the local laws about politicking outside polling places first, or at least have a second sign ready with just the first two parts.
posted by ckape at 9:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Double check the local laws about politicking outside polling places first, or at least have a second sign ready with just the first two parts.
posted by ckape at 9:28 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I feel like 'Black Jeopardy' could require a 400 page thesis to properly explain why it is and isn't funny and the ways in which it plays with themes of race, class, and politics. I come away from it feeling weird, which I think is a good thing, right?
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
I come away from it feeling weird, which I think is a good thing, right?
That's a major part of my definition of Art as opposed to TV. I think part of it is that it's a truly funny mirror image of something that's truly not funny. Should be required viewing with a discussion guide as part of the post-elections lessons learned.
posted by mikelieman at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's a major part of my definition of Art as opposed to TV. I think part of it is that it's a truly funny mirror image of something that's truly not funny. Should be required viewing with a discussion guide as part of the post-elections lessons learned.
posted by mikelieman at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I felt like I only “got” about 80% of Black Jeopardy when they first did it last season, but this iteration of it was goddamn brilliant, and went in a refreshing direction. So many SNL sketches are mediocre on paper and require stellar performances to land properly, but this one would've been nearly as funny to read as to watch.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
My favorite part of the Mr Robot sketch is that she's 4th wall aware. Leslie Jones + Deadpool + She-Hulk would be EPIC.
posted by Deoridhe at 10:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Deoridhe at 10:01 PM on October 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
And it begins...
@brithume
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
Firstly, Trump didn't "just" do that; he did touch her inappropriately as well.
Secondly, if you went out and punched a professional boxer while he was walking down the street, that would still be assault, even though he gets paid to trade punches with people.
posted by dhens at 10:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [77 favorites]
@brithume
Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
Firstly, Trump didn't "just" do that; he did touch her inappropriately as well.
Secondly, if you went out and punched a professional boxer while he was walking down the street, that would still be assault, even though he gets paid to trade punches with people.
posted by dhens at 10:02 PM on October 22, 2016 [77 favorites]
I still don't get Black Jeopardy. What.
C'mon, make an effort.
Meanwhile, the best part of the cold open may have been the line that Trump had the support of Sarah Palin, Chachi, and Stephen Baldwin, "the best Baldwin." Heeeee.
posted by TwoStride at 10:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
C'mon, make an effort.
Meanwhile, the best part of the cold open may have been the line that Trump had the support of Sarah Palin, Chachi, and Stephen Baldwin, "the best Baldwin." Heeeee.
posted by TwoStride at 10:06 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.
"Toy gun," not "fake gun," for maximum humiliation. Fake/replica is somewhat respectable; let other people know he's being childish by trying to scare them with a toy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
"Toy gun," not "fake gun," for maximum humiliation. Fake/replica is somewhat respectable; let other people know he's being childish by trying to scare them with a toy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
> This works for state-funded media; it clashes horribly with first-amendment rights of the press run by private citizens.
Well, first, remember that my speculative future history began "within sight of the bounds of the possible...."
But that said, the bare constitutional bones of our society, superposed upon living itself, cannot help but produce endless situations in which rights clash with each other. If that was going to stop American statecraft, it never could have gotten started in the first place. Various bodies of law are continually being generated, reviewed, revised, appended, rescinded, and so forth, to negotiate these conflicts.
Also, it's a technical nightmare - are Twitter and Facebook part of that critical infrastructure?
What nightmare? I see nothing especially controversial here. For energy we already have the FERC, even while private industry creates, operates, and maintains energy services. For communications, we have the FCC. While there's certainly room for improvement, we already accept the idea of regulation. I just speculated that revisiting the governing principles upon which such regulation operates could produce a more coherent framework for ensuring that the dissemination of information critical to the health and continued functioning of our society as legally constituted is done in a responsible and accountable fashion.
Coming up with standards for ["unbiased, objective, non-partisan news"] means establishing what is considered "normal" and therefore not-newsworthy, and that usually means putting straight-white-christian-cis-men firmly in the center.
Well, we should most certainly take stock of the flaws and shortcomings of existing systems while we're speculating about how to take a fresh approach. That's the very first step in systems development. But we certainly don't need to shackle ourselves to those flaws going forward. And we needn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, either.
For example, we mitigate public health risks in the air and water by applying statistical quality control methods, such as periodic and prescribed sampling to measure concentrations of physical pollutants in them. But we never imagine they are going to be absolutely pure. Why assume we must treat information in a fundamentally different manner? Is it because when the substance is conceptual, we are tempted to think in absolutist terms - truth, as opposed to information?
We know what to do to protect ourselves from the most common and severe risks to water and air quality. In the case of water, we also know how to ensure that people have access to it. The principles are simple, and few, even though the specific protocols for handling different kinds of situations may be very complicated. As long as the protocols are derived from the guiding principles, while also taking into account the complexities of living in the world, we can and do get the job done.
I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure a reliable and safe source for a class of information that is essential to the health and function of our society as well.
tl;dr: a media required to uphold reasonable civic standards would produce better mods!
posted by perspicio at 10:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, first, remember that my speculative future history began "within sight of the bounds of the possible...."
But that said, the bare constitutional bones of our society, superposed upon living itself, cannot help but produce endless situations in which rights clash with each other. If that was going to stop American statecraft, it never could have gotten started in the first place. Various bodies of law are continually being generated, reviewed, revised, appended, rescinded, and so forth, to negotiate these conflicts.
Also, it's a technical nightmare - are Twitter and Facebook part of that critical infrastructure?
What nightmare? I see nothing especially controversial here. For energy we already have the FERC, even while private industry creates, operates, and maintains energy services. For communications, we have the FCC. While there's certainly room for improvement, we already accept the idea of regulation. I just speculated that revisiting the governing principles upon which such regulation operates could produce a more coherent framework for ensuring that the dissemination of information critical to the health and continued functioning of our society as legally constituted is done in a responsible and accountable fashion.
Coming up with standards for ["unbiased, objective, non-partisan news"] means establishing what is considered "normal" and therefore not-newsworthy, and that usually means putting straight-white-christian-cis-men firmly in the center.
Well, we should most certainly take stock of the flaws and shortcomings of existing systems while we're speculating about how to take a fresh approach. That's the very first step in systems development. But we certainly don't need to shackle ourselves to those flaws going forward. And we needn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, either.
For example, we mitigate public health risks in the air and water by applying statistical quality control methods, such as periodic and prescribed sampling to measure concentrations of physical pollutants in them. But we never imagine they are going to be absolutely pure. Why assume we must treat information in a fundamentally different manner? Is it because when the substance is conceptual, we are tempted to think in absolutist terms - truth, as opposed to information?
We know what to do to protect ourselves from the most common and severe risks to water and air quality. In the case of water, we also know how to ensure that people have access to it. The principles are simple, and few, even though the specific protocols for handling different kinds of situations may be very complicated. As long as the protocols are derived from the guiding principles, while also taking into account the complexities of living in the world, we can and do get the job done.
I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure a reliable and safe source for a class of information that is essential to the health and function of our society as well.
tl;dr: a media required to uphold reasonable civic standards would produce better mods!
posted by perspicio at 10:17 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ya I get the "we're all the same" moral tale.
The part where the entire skit is holy fuck watching this makes me feel dirty this is so racist omg omg omg part is the part I'm not feeling.
posted by Yowser at 10:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The part where the entire skit is holy fuck watching this makes me feel dirty this is so racist omg omg omg part is the part I'm not feeling.
posted by Yowser at 10:24 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Actually, "FAKE BIKER, FAKE GUN, VOTE FOR A LIBRARY OPEN ON SATURDAY" on cheap poster-board may well do the trick.
I would go with the full Pekingese mascot costume and a sign reading BAN TOY GUNS.
posted by carsonb at 10:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would go with the full Pekingese mascot costume and a sign reading BAN TOY GUNS.
posted by carsonb at 10:41 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Utah I considering going with a system that gives the candidate with the most votes, all the electoral votes. They say they are going for relevance. I say they are just making it that it will always give all 6 electoral votes to republicans, or in the case of this year...just a new wrinkle.
posted by Oyéah at 10:44 PM on October 22, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 10:44 PM on October 22, 2016
> I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure a reliable and safe source for a class of information that is essential to the health and function of our society as well.
On reread, I misstated. I meant to say that I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure that any significant sources of such information are reliable and safe. This implies both that any source could fall under the purview of the regulations, and that we would clean up or eliminate unsafe sources as a matter of course.
posted by perspicio at 10:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
On reread, I misstated. I meant to say that I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure that any significant sources of such information are reliable and safe. This implies both that any source could fall under the purview of the regulations, and that we would clean up or eliminate unsafe sources as a matter of course.
posted by perspicio at 10:47 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Utah I considering going with a system that gives the candidate with the most votes, all the electoral votes.
But that, like, is the system, literally everywhere but Nebraska and Maine.
posted by dersins at 10:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
But that, like, is the system, literally everywhere but Nebraska and Maine.
posted by dersins at 10:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I still don't get Black Jeopardy. What.
I live in a pretty white part of the south -- not the whitest part by far, but definitely up there -- and as an outsider (though white and thus playing on Easy level) it hit me hard. I was mapping out the distance between the African-American bits of town, with their "I'll fix it for 40 bucks" guys, and the rural and isolated and very white bits of the county and their "I'll fix it for 40 bucks" guys, and it's probably no more than a half-hour drive. If you only drive for 20 minutes, you get to the places where poorer people of all races, creeds and colours co-exist, not necessarily amicably all the time or on the same trajectories, but with the same fundamental needs and desires and aspirations.
(There's a big flea market in Fletcher, where Trump sorta-kinda-spoke on Friday -- he went to the Ag Center because it's opposite the airport, not the bit a few miles further south -- and it's a melting pot of lower-income white people selling old Americana and assorted groceries and knick-knacks, and lower-income Latinx people selling leather items and western wear and cheap produce and empanadas and churros, and African-Americans selling sneakers and sunglasses, and middle-class people awkwardly buying that stuff. Fletcher is messy America, unresolved America, transitional America, because the kids brought up in Fletcher probably aren't going to stay there, but they're going to get to where they need to be because of what their parents are doing right now.)
So what I took from the Black Jeopardy bit isn't so much "this makes me feel dirty this is so racist omg omg" as the accuracy of Charles Barkley's articulation of class consciousness nearly a decade ago, a class consciousness rendered sclerotic by racial difference, which I think is mostly consistent with his position today. (Which isn't to say that I'd vote for him if I were a citizen and he ran for office.)
One of the ongoing conversations I have with my dad back in the UK is that there isn't really that much to separate the economic position and aspirations of the white Catholic immigrant community he grew up in with the South Asian Muslim community that lives on the streets he grew up on: that the differences that cause him the most problems (skin colour, mosques, hijab) are mostly superficial. When he says that he doesn't recognise the parts of town he was raised in because South Asians and black Africans and Eastern Europeans now live there, I ask whether he'd want to move back (to a cramped terraced house) from the suburbs to which lots of white Catholic families moved in the 70s, and of course he wouldn't. But he'll still drive down there because there are Asian-run tyre shops that will repair a puncture for cheap.
posted by holgate at 10:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
I live in a pretty white part of the south -- not the whitest part by far, but definitely up there -- and as an outsider (though white and thus playing on Easy level) it hit me hard. I was mapping out the distance between the African-American bits of town, with their "I'll fix it for 40 bucks" guys, and the rural and isolated and very white bits of the county and their "I'll fix it for 40 bucks" guys, and it's probably no more than a half-hour drive. If you only drive for 20 minutes, you get to the places where poorer people of all races, creeds and colours co-exist, not necessarily amicably all the time or on the same trajectories, but with the same fundamental needs and desires and aspirations.
(There's a big flea market in Fletcher, where Trump sorta-kinda-spoke on Friday -- he went to the Ag Center because it's opposite the airport, not the bit a few miles further south -- and it's a melting pot of lower-income white people selling old Americana and assorted groceries and knick-knacks, and lower-income Latinx people selling leather items and western wear and cheap produce and empanadas and churros, and African-Americans selling sneakers and sunglasses, and middle-class people awkwardly buying that stuff. Fletcher is messy America, unresolved America, transitional America, because the kids brought up in Fletcher probably aren't going to stay there, but they're going to get to where they need to be because of what their parents are doing right now.)
So what I took from the Black Jeopardy bit isn't so much "this makes me feel dirty this is so racist omg omg" as the accuracy of Charles Barkley's articulation of class consciousness nearly a decade ago, a class consciousness rendered sclerotic by racial difference, which I think is mostly consistent with his position today. (Which isn't to say that I'd vote for him if I were a citizen and he ran for office.)
One of the ongoing conversations I have with my dad back in the UK is that there isn't really that much to separate the economic position and aspirations of the white Catholic immigrant community he grew up in with the South Asian Muslim community that lives on the streets he grew up on: that the differences that cause him the most problems (skin colour, mosques, hijab) are mostly superficial. When he says that he doesn't recognise the parts of town he was raised in because South Asians and black Africans and Eastern Europeans now live there, I ask whether he'd want to move back (to a cramped terraced house) from the suburbs to which lots of white Catholic families moved in the 70s, and of course he wouldn't. But he'll still drive down there because there are Asian-run tyre shops that will repair a puncture for cheap.
posted by holgate at 10:59 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
we mitigate public health risks in the air and water by applying statistical quality control methods, such as periodic and prescribed sampling to measure concentrations of physical pollutants in them. But we never imagine they are going to be absolutely pure. Why assume we must treat information in a fundamentally different manner?
Because information, unlike air and water purity, is entirely subjective. Facts are not subjective, but information is not raw data; a news report is not a string of facts.
A news report is curated data, almost always offered with analysis of some sort. Curation itself is a skew; any opinion-based language in the reporting adds to that. This is most obvious during high-profile elections, but it also exists during daily local news and science news.
I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure that any significant sources of such information are reliable and safe.
I would love to have one or more official gov't media sources - tv, newspaper, website, whatever. However, I suspect an "unbiased" one would just wind up hated and distrusted by most people in both the main political parties; we're used to at least our local news affirming our general outlook. (I have no idea what unbiased, neutral reporting about the Occupy movement would look like.)
For rules related to all media outlets distributing info related to the health and function of society... 1st amendment says that we can't make laws about that.
The gov't isn't allowed to say, "news reporting that doesn't include fact-checking isn't permitted." Nor is it allowed to demand that all reporting implies that men and women should have the same rights, nor that there are more than two genders, nor that crime is caused more by poverty than race.
This is the price we pay for our free speech rights. The gov't cannot mandate that information distributed to the public be useful or accurate - it can only allow the recourse of a lawsuit (or criminal charges) if harm is caused by that speech. And so far, "lotsa people want to elect an incompetent, petulant narcissist" is not considered actionable harm.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
Because information, unlike air and water purity, is entirely subjective. Facts are not subjective, but information is not raw data; a news report is not a string of facts.
A news report is curated data, almost always offered with analysis of some sort. Curation itself is a skew; any opinion-based language in the reporting adds to that. This is most obvious during high-profile elections, but it also exists during daily local news and science news.
I know of no reason why, with thoughtful consideration, we wouldn't be able to ensure that any significant sources of such information are reliable and safe.
I would love to have one or more official gov't media sources - tv, newspaper, website, whatever. However, I suspect an "unbiased" one would just wind up hated and distrusted by most people in both the main political parties; we're used to at least our local news affirming our general outlook. (I have no idea what unbiased, neutral reporting about the Occupy movement would look like.)
For rules related to all media outlets distributing info related to the health and function of society... 1st amendment says that we can't make laws about that.
The gov't isn't allowed to say, "news reporting that doesn't include fact-checking isn't permitted." Nor is it allowed to demand that all reporting implies that men and women should have the same rights, nor that there are more than two genders, nor that crime is caused more by poverty than race.
This is the price we pay for our free speech rights. The gov't cannot mandate that information distributed to the public be useful or accurate - it can only allow the recourse of a lawsuit (or criminal charges) if harm is caused by that speech. And so far, "lotsa people want to elect an incompetent, petulant narcissist" is not considered actionable harm.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:00 PM on October 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
So, today we get the Getevensburg Address -- this guy is folding like a cardboard card table under a broken water main. Soggy!
posted by y2karl at 11:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 11:12 PM on October 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
RE: the issue of whether the Republican Party in the future needs to focus on the 25% (or whatever) of "deplorables" - I would make three related points:
#1. Even though it true that racists, misogynists, homophobes, people who are against foreigners, etc etc etc all exist, that does NOT mean it is necessary to base a political party and political movements around these things. They have existed before, probably throughout all time, but in recent years in the U.S. they have been fringe, and for good reason. They should stay fringe. Major parties should not debase themselves by running to these things. (And it is something of a sign of desperation when political parties do start running to these things IMHO.)
A healthy democracy minimizes the crazies. It doesn't put them front and center.
#2. Don't feed the trolls. They only grow larger and stronger the more they are fed. Yeah, a lot of people in the U.S. harbor some racist feelings (just for example--the same goes for misogynist, anti-foreigner, and all the other deplorable traits). But when it is socially unacceptable to display these traits, people background them. When it becomes socially acceptable to let your asshole flag fly high and proud, people will do that instead.
That's one big reason responsible political movements spend time tamping down this kind of anti-social behavior, not encouraging and promoting it.
#3. Parties don't actually need to reach out to the lowest and basest elements in human behavior in order to survive. It is possible to reach the same people--the same demographic groups--using other issues that are not so toxic to our democracy and to our social contract.
In many ways, the type of issues that Trump continually reaches for are the easy way out--the lazy way out. But there are other issues that motivate people, and political parties--even the Republicans--should consciously move in that direction.
Constantly appealing the lowest common denominator and the basest human emotions is not a recipe for the long-term health of a democratic nation.
posted by flug at 11:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
#1. Even though it true that racists, misogynists, homophobes, people who are against foreigners, etc etc etc all exist, that does NOT mean it is necessary to base a political party and political movements around these things. They have existed before, probably throughout all time, but in recent years in the U.S. they have been fringe, and for good reason. They should stay fringe. Major parties should not debase themselves by running to these things. (And it is something of a sign of desperation when political parties do start running to these things IMHO.)
A healthy democracy minimizes the crazies. It doesn't put them front and center.
#2. Don't feed the trolls. They only grow larger and stronger the more they are fed. Yeah, a lot of people in the U.S. harbor some racist feelings (just for example--the same goes for misogynist, anti-foreigner, and all the other deplorable traits). But when it is socially unacceptable to display these traits, people background them. When it becomes socially acceptable to let your asshole flag fly high and proud, people will do that instead.
That's one big reason responsible political movements spend time tamping down this kind of anti-social behavior, not encouraging and promoting it.
#3. Parties don't actually need to reach out to the lowest and basest elements in human behavior in order to survive. It is possible to reach the same people--the same demographic groups--using other issues that are not so toxic to our democracy and to our social contract.
In many ways, the type of issues that Trump continually reaches for are the easy way out--the lazy way out. But there are other issues that motivate people, and political parties--even the Republicans--should consciously move in that direction.
Constantly appealing the lowest common denominator and the basest human emotions is not a recipe for the long-term health of a democratic nation.
posted by flug at 11:22 PM on October 22, 2016 [18 favorites]
Constantly appealing the lowest common denominator and the basest human emotions is not a recipe for the long-term health of a democratic nation.
That's the thing with a candidate who's a self-defined "outsider" from the Political Process. He's never invested anything in the long-term health of a democratic nation, and he likely never will.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:28 PM on October 22, 2016
That's the thing with a candidate who's a self-defined "outsider" from the Political Process. He's never invested anything in the long-term health of a democratic nation, and he likely never will.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:28 PM on October 22, 2016
Something to reflect on for after Nov 8. From Linda Sarsour's Facebook page, a post where she describes an elderly Muslim gentleman's thinking about the election:
When you canvas, you only knock on the doors of the people on your list. As I was walking I passed by a home where I saw an old woman in hijab open the door and pass a glass of water to an old man sitting on the porch. I stopped in my tracks because they had a Trump sign on their lawn. They weren't on the list, so I walked up to the porch and said "Asalamu Alaykum". The old man was surprised to see me but nonetheless greeted me warmly. He asked my name and what I was doing and I responded. We engaged in a great conversation and then I mustered up the courage to ask him why he had a Trump sign outside of his home and he responded in Arabic "its safe. I feel safe with it in front of my home." He sounded sad but reassured by his own words.posted by bardophile at 11:39 PM on October 22, 2016 [182 favorites]
I was so taken a back by his answer, but it made sense. It made sense for him. I challenged myself to not judge and continue to listen. I then asked, "but you are not voting for him, right? This doesn't mean you are necessarily voting for him?" He looked away from my eyes and he said, "I don't know, I want to vote for him because what happens if he doesn't win? Do you think we will be safe? Who do you think they will take revenge on? Us, you and me." I said who, " he said, "I don't know, some of his supporters. They will blame us for his loss. Maybe they will hurt more people." I wanted to say NO, that won't happen. No we can't let them win. No, this is not the right way to think. But I couldn't. I was too sad, too devastated, too frozen to speak. He asked me if I wanted something to drink, I said no thank you. I said, it was nice to meet you. May God bless and protect you and your family. He said "you too my daughter."
Wait, was I supposed to be offended by Black Jeopardy and think it was super racist? Did I somehow commit a grievous social error by finding a ton of humor and truth in it?
posted by palomar at 11:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by palomar at 11:40 PM on October 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
RE: the issue of whether the Republican Party in the future needs to focus on the 25% (or whatever) of "deplorables" [...]
I think this is a category error. The Republican party presently consists of these deplorables. That is, there are enough deplorable people who are well enough organised to challenge pretty much any sitting Republican politician. Consequently, these politicians are scared to do anything (e.g., pass a budget, vote on a Supreme Court nominee) because any action can be taken as an affront. So it's not a matter of them choosing to go after the votes of the 25%. The Republican Party is really locked into a course that avoids confronting the deplorables, and there's no way at present it can exclude them. It's a vicious cycle and I don't know how the Party can break out of it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think this is a category error. The Republican party presently consists of these deplorables. That is, there are enough deplorable people who are well enough organised to challenge pretty much any sitting Republican politician. Consequently, these politicians are scared to do anything (e.g., pass a budget, vote on a Supreme Court nominee) because any action can be taken as an affront. So it's not a matter of them choosing to go after the votes of the 25%. The Republican Party is really locked into a course that avoids confronting the deplorables, and there's no way at present it can exclude them. It's a vicious cycle and I don't know how the Party can break out of it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:50 PM on October 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Maybe I'm just looking at Black Jeopardy through a Canadian lens, but man does it ever look racist to my biased eyes.
posted by Yowser at 12:00 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by Yowser at 12:00 AM on October 23, 2016
Can you point to what was racist? I'm watching it again and I'm seeing a sketch that indicates that the average Trump-supporting white person has a lot more in common with the average Black American than they personally believe, but there are still major hurdles to complete empathy and acceptance... I'll admit I do have a cringe moment, but it only happens when Doug starts to voice support for the All Lives Matter movement.
posted by palomar at 12:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by palomar at 12:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think the sketch is deliberately classist, and because of the ways in which class and race are intertwined in America, that can come across as racist. I also think that's the entire point of the sketch.
I'm glad it exists, but it does feel like the kind of thing that calls for a lengthy discussion about race and class with professional facilitation after. It does rely a lot on stereotypes in a way I'm not entirely comfortable with.
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm glad it exists, but it does feel like the kind of thing that calls for a lengthy discussion about race and class with professional facilitation after. It does rely a lot on stereotypes in a way I'm not entirely comfortable with.
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I live in a pretty white part of the south
As someone from a far less white part of the south, my read of this sketch is that the whole point was that all the racist redneck assholes actually have way more in common with black culture than they are willing to admit. Which is something I've noticed before, as a white southerner. Like, it's kind of fucked up how racist southern white people are considering that, culturally, we have way more in common than not. Sometimes I think that cultural commonality is one of the foundational reasons for southern white supremacy. Like the truly terrifying thing for racists is admitting that we all put a ham bone in everything.
As for whether this sketch is certifiably Racist, it had some WTF moments (broom on the ceiling downstairs, really?) but overall made a worthwhile point that is often not acknowledged.
posted by Sara C. at 12:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
As someone from a far less white part of the south, my read of this sketch is that the whole point was that all the racist redneck assholes actually have way more in common with black culture than they are willing to admit. Which is something I've noticed before, as a white southerner. Like, it's kind of fucked up how racist southern white people are considering that, culturally, we have way more in common than not. Sometimes I think that cultural commonality is one of the foundational reasons for southern white supremacy. Like the truly terrifying thing for racists is admitting that we all put a ham bone in everything.
As for whether this sketch is certifiably Racist, it had some WTF moments (broom on the ceiling downstairs, really?) but overall made a worthwhile point that is often not acknowledged.
posted by Sara C. at 12:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Ivanka and Eric Trump didn't register in time to vote for their father in N.Y.
Two more people that will benefit from Clinton's proposed nationwide automatic voter registration.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [68 favorites]
Two more people that will benefit from Clinton's proposed nationwide automatic voter registration.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [68 favorites]
Mod note: The SNL thing is beginning to be an extended derail from actual election discussion. Maybe better to get into a more in-depth discussion of the show over in FanFare when it's posted (anyone can post it now), and stick to directly election-pertinent aspects here.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:27 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by taz (staff) at 12:27 AM on October 23, 2016
OMG STILL? They slept on this shit back in the primaries and STILL DIDN'T GET AROUND TO REGISTERING? WTActualF
Let us hope most other Trump supporters are as stupid.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Let us hope most other Trump supporters are as stupid.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
It kinda makes me wonder if they were being deliberate about "forgetting" to register. Passive-aggressiveness at its finest?
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
I think that's a misreading. It seems like they won't be able to vote as Republicans, but if they're registered as independents or whatever, they can vote in the presidential election.
That means any voters who wanted to change their party enrolment in time to vote in the presidential primaries would have had to do so by that date. Enrollment changes submitted after that date won't take effect until the first Tuesday after the 2016 general election in November
posted by bardophile at 12:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
That means any voters who wanted to change their party enrolment in time to vote in the presidential primaries would have had to do so by that date. Enrollment changes submitted after that date won't take effect until the first Tuesday after the 2016 general election in November
posted by bardophile at 12:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
And to make it election-pertinent, especially in the context of "what do we do about the deplorables?" I thought it was a really good (because funny!) examination of how the soft boundaries between people in similar economic circumstances run into the hard boundaries of racial politics.
posted by holgate at 12:33 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by holgate at 12:33 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
OMG STILL? They slept on this shit back in the primaries and STILL DIDN'T GET AROUND TO REGISTERING? WTActualF
Let us hope most other Trump supporters are as stupid.
It's the story from the primaries (dateline April 2016), not a new story.
posted by dhens at 12:33 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Let us hope most other Trump supporters are as stupid.
It's the story from the primaries (dateline April 2016), not a new story.
posted by dhens at 12:33 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
I don't know whether to be relieved or not
posted by Sara C. at 12:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 12:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's the story from the primaries (dateline April 2016), not a new story.
/r/politics/new may be that swamp that Trump is going on about.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
/r/politics/new may be that swamp that Trump is going on about.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not a huge fan of journalism based on Wikileaks, but I did find this Politico article on all the oppo Clinton didn't use against Sanders during the primary quite fascinating.
posted by xyzzy at 1:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 1:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
It was quite clear that Clinton was going exactly as soft as possible while still being assured of victory. If she'd gone any softer she would have been campaigning for him.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [42 favorites]
That was my feelinng as well. And now that we're seeing Bernie oppo, I find the lack of Trump oppo conspicuous.
posted by xyzzy at 3:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 3:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK, so I only read a few paragraphs of the Politico article. But can I just say how much I love that photo at the top? Hillary's face, serious, listening, thinking, not smiling, and those unapologetic lines and wrinkles, even the bags under her eyes. How often do we get to see a 69-year-old woman doing her job (and doing it so well) portrayed like that? Looking forward to heaps more of those pics in the next four years, America.
posted by moody cow at 3:06 AM on October 23, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by moody cow at 3:06 AM on October 23, 2016 [21 favorites]
Fuzzy, I'm pretty sure they have tons of Trump oppo, but figured here's doing a fine job of self deducting without it. Besides, exposing it might invigorate the deplorables.
posted by peppermind at 4:05 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by peppermind at 4:05 AM on October 23, 2016
I'm not a huge fan of journalism based on Wikileaks, but I did find this Politico article on all the oppo Clinton didn't use against Sanders during the primary quite fascinating.
Really? YMMV but I mostly felt bad for the Politico interns that had to trawl through all that oppo only to find a bunch of weak attack lines like:
“Anonymous Sources Who Claimed To Have Previously Worked For Sanders Said That, As An Employer, He Often Mistreated His Employees,” reads the header.Some of the lines of attack quietly made it into the primary fight, like the Jane Sanders college thing, but really there's nothing new or newsworthy here.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm pretty sure they have tons of Trump oppo, but figured here's doing a fine job of self deducting without it.
The insinuation was that the hacker who acquired the emails had removed anything damaging about Trump.
posted by Slothrup at 4:13 AM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
The insinuation was that the hacker who acquired the emails had removed anything damaging about Trump.
posted by Slothrup at 4:13 AM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
The other thing with Trump oppo dumps is that they get buried so fast by the pace of idiocy from Trump & Co. I imagine there are a few more juicy things that will come out a few days before the election for maximum effect.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:17 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:17 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Clinton's already included nationwide automatic voter registration as one of her planks, and an anti-gerrymandering move would dovetail perfectly with that.
Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.
posted by hoyland at 4:47 AM on October 23, 2016
Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.
posted by hoyland at 4:47 AM on October 23, 2016
What are the GOTV rallies like in terms of crowds, length, etc? I have some contacts on the ground in Bucks County and have been thinking about going down for Tim's GOTV rally (especially since the rumored NH dates haven't been announced yet), but I also want to know what to expect.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:54 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by pxe2000 at 4:54 AM on October 23, 2016
Here is Clinton's fact sheet on voting rights. It calls for "universal, automatic voter registration, where every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote when they turn eighteen – unless they actively choose to opt out." I don't know what the plan for implementing that is though, or getting the states to sign on.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:12 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
Half credit to Mark Cuban, though he's really a #NeverTrump Republican.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Half credit to Mark Cuban, though he's really a #NeverTrump Republican.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump supporters seem to know the word "Lugenpresse", a word Nazis used to disparage the press.
Funny that. No wait. Not funny. Horrifying.
posted by Talez at 5:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [42 favorites]
Funny that. No wait. Not funny. Horrifying.
posted by Talez at 5:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [42 favorites]
Mark Attanasio the owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, is a Democrat.
posted by drezdn at 5:38 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 5:38 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, folks, when your city or state wants you to vote for a sports stadium bond or tax abatement remember they are almost always asking you to make a large donation, via your own taxes, to the party of Trump.
Major league team owners tend to be among the most retrograde of right wingers with endless money to throw at candidates.
Making it somewhat painful to cheer the Ricketts family Cubs.
It's a weird situation as Laura Rickets is the first openly gay part owner of a MLB team and also a major democratic party donor.
But the family have been hugely criminal tax shelterers, bank fraudsters, and big time republican donors including to Trump even after the sex tape release (despite openly opposing him during the primaries) and anti-gay marriage campaigners.
posted by srboisvert at 5:58 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Major league team owners tend to be among the most retrograde of right wingers with endless money to throw at candidates.
Making it somewhat painful to cheer the Ricketts family Cubs.
It's a weird situation as Laura Rickets is the first openly gay part owner of a MLB team and also a major democratic party donor.
But the family have been hugely criminal tax shelterers, bank fraudsters, and big time republican donors including to Trump even after the sex tape release (despite openly opposing him during the primaries) and anti-gay marriage campaigners.
posted by srboisvert at 5:58 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, the total of all newspapers, magazines, and periodicals endorsing Hillary Clinton now stands at: 268, including a number which have never or almost never endorsed a Democrat and a number which have never endorsed anyone at all.
The total of all endorsing ANYONE OTHER THAN DONALD TRUMP stands at: 16
The total of all endorsing Trump stands at: 4
Of those endorsing Trump, none are in the top 100 by circulation. His endorsements include one from The Santa Barbara News-Press, a paper from which most of the editorial staff and news reporters resigned or were fired in 2006 amid allegations that the owner was imposing her personal opinions on the reporting and publishing of news, and The Las Vegas Review-Journal, owned by Trump donor Sheldon Adelson.
posted by kyrademon at 6:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
The total of all endorsing ANYONE OTHER THAN DONALD TRUMP stands at: 16
The total of all endorsing Trump stands at: 4
Of those endorsing Trump, none are in the top 100 by circulation. His endorsements include one from The Santa Barbara News-Press, a paper from which most of the editorial staff and news reporters resigned or were fired in 2006 amid allegations that the owner was imposing her personal opinions on the reporting and publishing of news, and The Las Vegas Review-Journal, owned by Trump donor Sheldon Adelson.
posted by kyrademon at 6:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
ABC News / Washington Post poll:
Clinton 50
Trump 38
Johnson 5
Stein 2
Clinton 50
Trump 38
Johnson 5
Stein 2
Likely voters by a vast 69-24 percent disapprove of Trump’s response to questions about his treatment of women. After a series of allegations of past sexual misconduct, the poll finds that some women who’d initially given him the benefit of the doubt have since moved away.posted by sallybrown at 6:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]
Fifty-nine percent of likely voters, moreover, reject Trump’s suggestion that the election is rigged in Clinton’s favor, and more, 65 percent, disapprove of his refusal to say whether he’d accept a Clinton victory as legitimate. Most strongly disapprove, a relatively rare result.
The results mark a dramatic shift from Clinton’s +4 points in the last ABC/Post poll Oct. 13. . . .This inaugural 2016 ABC News tracking poll, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates, was conducted Thursday through Saturday among 1,391 adults, including 874 likely voters.
I don't know what the fuck to make of the fact that 41% of likely voters don't reject the idea that the election is rigged and 35% don't disapprove of his refusal to say he'd concede if he lost. And that's likely voters!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's probably some undecideds on those issues in there as well, so it's less than just 100-n.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2016
Correction -- the Las Vegas Review Journal actually is in the top 100 newspapers by circulation, coming in at number 61, although the others endorsing Trump are not. And 25% of his total endorsements come from the Waxahachie Daily Light (circulation 4,787).
6 newspapers have endorsed Gary Johnson. In most if not all cases, they appear to be Republican-leaning newspapers which have never endorsed a Libertarian candidate before, so I suspect this is the editorial equivalent of throwing up your arms and saying, "screw it". Interestingly, the one daily newspaper that endorsed Gary Johnson in 2012, the Chattanooga Times Free Press, declined to make an endorsement this year.
posted by kyrademon at 6:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
6 newspapers have endorsed Gary Johnson. In most if not all cases, they appear to be Republican-leaning newspapers which have never endorsed a Libertarian candidate before, so I suspect this is the editorial equivalent of throwing up your arms and saying, "screw it". Interestingly, the one daily newspaper that endorsed Gary Johnson in 2012, the Chattanooga Times Free Press, declined to make an endorsement this year.
posted by kyrademon at 6:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Those poll numbers are devastating for trump.
posted by medusa at 6:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by medusa at 6:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Did we ever do the Donald comparison jokes?
"What's the difference between Donald Trump and Donald Duck? One's an incoherent, perpetually angry lunatic and one's a duck."
posted by Talez at 6:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
"What's the difference between Donald Trump and Donald Duck? One's an incoherent, perpetually angry lunatic and one's a duck."
posted by Talez at 6:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
Trump supporters seem to know the word "Lugenpresse", a word Nazis used to disparage the press.
Funny that. No wait. Not funny. Horrifying.
It should be way more surprising than it is.
posted by Artw at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Funny that. No wait. Not funny. Horrifying.
It should be way more surprising than it is.
posted by Artw at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
That is, there are enough deplorable people who are well enough organised to challenge pretty much any sitting Republican politician.
The true catastrophe for the Republicans is that the deplorables have finally realized that they are in fact a majority within the Republican party. And while their deplorable ideals are losers in any state or national general election, the deplorables are used to not getting their way because of sixty years of their Republican "friends" telling them too bad, so sad, can't do what you want again this year. So now they've realized that if they're not going to get what they want anyway, they might as well not get what they want loudly instead of as meek partners of people who are getting a lot of what they want.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:52 AM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
The true catastrophe for the Republicans is that the deplorables have finally realized that they are in fact a majority within the Republican party. And while their deplorable ideals are losers in any state or national general election, the deplorables are used to not getting their way because of sixty years of their Republican "friends" telling them too bad, so sad, can't do what you want again this year. So now they've realized that if they're not going to get what they want anyway, they might as well not get what they want loudly instead of as meek partners of people who are getting a lot of what they want.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:52 AM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
If this continues I am stating to believe we can get the House back.
Those poll numbers are devastating for trump.
If you want some joy for today, look at the beautiful trumpet shape opening up on the right side of the graph in the detailed results of the poll (PDF).
Also:
posted by sallybrown at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
Those poll numbers are devastating for trump.
If you want some joy for today, look at the beautiful trumpet shape opening up on the right side of the graph in the detailed results of the poll (PDF).
Also:
Clinton's also ahead numerically (albeit not significantly) among men, 44-41 percent, a first in ABC News and ABC/Post polling.I want to see that + in the white vote go - so so so so badly.
Trump is just +4 among whites overall, 47-43 percent
While 71 percent of women disapprove of his handling of questions about his treatment of women, so do 67 percent of men. And 57 percent overall disapprove “strongly” – 60 percent of women, but also 52 percent of men. By partisan group, 41 percent of Republican likely voters disapprove of Trump on this question, a heavy loss in one’s own party. That grows to 70 percent of independents and nearly all Democrats, 92 percent
posted by sallybrown at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
I don't know what the fuck to make of the fact that 41% of likely voters don't reject the idea that the election is rigged.
Well, for my part it would honestly depend on how the question was phrased, and I can certainly see phrasings where I'd want to answer with something more ambiguous than "I reject the idea that the election is rigged." I mean, there's good reason to suspect that past elections have indeed seen at least attempts at rigging, albeit not in ways that would benefit Trump. And then there's the attempt by Republicans to rig the election in favor of themselves by passing laws that disenfranchise their opponents' voter base. Not to mention the electoral college, the first-past-the-post, winner-take-all election system, gerrymandering in the House, and the dominance of just two political parties to begin with. All of that stuff is undemocratic and tilts power away from the voter and toward the political elite, and I do sort of think of it in terms of "the system is rigged."
Now, I don't think that's what the pollsters were trying to get at with that question, but such are the perils of polling that depending on how the question about rigging was worded, my honest answer might have had to have been something like "Yeah, kinda." It's also very much not what Donald Trump is saying when he says the election is rigged against him; if anything, I think the system is set up in a way that should unfairly benefit Trump. But again, my answer would depend on the exact wording of the question. Are there a lot of voters like me? I dunno, but you expressed bafflement at how one could fail to reject the idea that our elections are rigged and that is one way that someone might get to that place without being an uncritical Trump follower.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Well, for my part it would honestly depend on how the question was phrased, and I can certainly see phrasings where I'd want to answer with something more ambiguous than "I reject the idea that the election is rigged." I mean, there's good reason to suspect that past elections have indeed seen at least attempts at rigging, albeit not in ways that would benefit Trump. And then there's the attempt by Republicans to rig the election in favor of themselves by passing laws that disenfranchise their opponents' voter base. Not to mention the electoral college, the first-past-the-post, winner-take-all election system, gerrymandering in the House, and the dominance of just two political parties to begin with. All of that stuff is undemocratic and tilts power away from the voter and toward the political elite, and I do sort of think of it in terms of "the system is rigged."
Now, I don't think that's what the pollsters were trying to get at with that question, but such are the perils of polling that depending on how the question about rigging was worded, my honest answer might have had to have been something like "Yeah, kinda." It's also very much not what Donald Trump is saying when he says the election is rigged against him; if anything, I think the system is set up in a way that should unfairly benefit Trump. But again, my answer would depend on the exact wording of the question. Are there a lot of voters like me? I dunno, but you expressed bafflement at how one could fail to reject the idea that our elections are rigged and that is one way that someone might get to that place without being an uncritical Trump follower.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Hooray! Today I get to go to my first Hillary Clinton rally! I'm very excited! I'm bringing my Mom and Uncle (Uncle is kind of a right-winger and probably a Trump supporter, but he will be on his best behavior.)
This is such a relief. My job involves going to political rallies from both campaigns. I've been to three Trump rallies, each more pathetic and depressing than the last. I've seen Chelsea Clinton and Michelle Obama once each, and Tim Kaine, like, three times. And now I finally get to see Sec. Clinton, whom I've been wanting to see for awhile.
I was afraid I'd go the whole campaign and never see Sec. Clinton. This campaign has upped my admiration for her 1000%. I always thought of her as competent and intelligent, but apparently, based on her debate performance (remember how the media was criticizing her for over-preparing for the third debate? Hahahahaha!) she's actually a superstar politician. I'm stoked!
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]
This is such a relief. My job involves going to political rallies from both campaigns. I've been to three Trump rallies, each more pathetic and depressing than the last. I've seen Chelsea Clinton and Michelle Obama once each, and Tim Kaine, like, three times. And now I finally get to see Sec. Clinton, whom I've been wanting to see for awhile.
I was afraid I'd go the whole campaign and never see Sec. Clinton. This campaign has upped my admiration for her 1000%. I always thought of her as competent and intelligent, but apparently, based on her debate performance (remember how the media was criticizing her for over-preparing for the third debate? Hahahahaha!) she's actually a superstar politician. I'm stoked!
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]
I want to see you defend in court that Donald Duck is actually a Duck.
posted by Namlit at 6:55 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Namlit at 6:55 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I want a free press. I want a press that provides both facts and context. I want journalists who are aware of history. I want journalists who report things that I would not otherwise be aware of. I want a press that can make me uncomfortable by challenging my assumptions. I want reporting that is aware of causality and calls out magical thinking.
As it turns out, I want to be back in college!
posted by Emmy Noether at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
As it turns out, I want to be back in college!
posted by Emmy Noether at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hillary Clinton is going to be in Raleigh today, so my wife and I are taking our 9 mo. old daughter to the event. The Mothers of the Movement will be there, so it will be a nice change of pace from dealing with my family in St. Louis who's response to all police brutality conversations is "what about black on black crime". [Next time that happens, I want to ask my older brother if he thinks we would have never gained independence if King George III responded to the Boston Massacre with "but what about colonial on colonial crime", rhetorically defeating the founding fathers forever.]
Quick question to those who've attended these types of events... my wife rsvp'd and they sent her an email saying "no large bags", does that include diaper bags the size of a laptop bag, or are those okay?
posted by Groundhog Week at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Quick question to those who've attended these types of events... my wife rsvp'd and they sent her an email saying "no large bags", does that include diaper bags the size of a laptop bag, or are those okay?
posted by Groundhog Week at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Joy Reid opening with Lugenpresse! God I love her so much. It's so weird and refreshing to know there is always someone on tv saying things that are actually true.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]
Donald Trump, unlike Donald Duck, wears pants?
disputed by some
posted by Namlit at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
disputed by some
posted by Namlit at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
What's the difference between Donald Trump and the Hindenberg?
One is a flaming Nazi gasbag and the other was an airship.
posted by bardophile at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [41 favorites]
One is a flaming Nazi gasbag and the other was an airship.
posted by bardophile at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [41 favorites]
Terrible news, everyone: Bill Kristol has just predicted that Trump will lose the election.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
Johnathan Alter looks like a man who keeps realizing that Bush and the Iraq war was not the worst shitshow he'd ever live through.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ok, just for the files: Hindenburg. Lügenpresse.
posted by Namlit at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
The Log Cabin Republicans, one of the country's most influential LGBT Republican groups, announced Saturday that it would not back the party's presidential nominee, Donald Trump.
posted by Artw at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2016 [31 favorites]
ABC News:
The previous ABC/Post poll found a sharp 12-point decline in enthusiasm for Trump among his supporters, almost exclusively among those who’d preferred a different GOP nominee. Intended participation now has followed: The share of registered Republicans who are likely to vote is down 7 points since mid-October.posted by octothorpe at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
The share of registered Republicans who are likely to vote is down 7 points since mid-October.
Can we call this the Senate killer?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Can we call this the Senate killer?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
I want a free press. I want a press that provides both facts and context. I want journalists who are aware of history. I want journalists who report things that I would not otherwise be aware of. I want a press that can make me uncomfortable by challenging my assumptions. I want reporting that is aware of causality and calls out magical thinking.
As it turns out, I want to be back in college!
Or even high school! Here in the super-red Colorado Springs area, pro-DJT parents freaked out when a student editorial board at a local high school paper endorsed Clinton.
Responses from pro-DJT parents:
- It's inappropriate for a student publication!
- DJT should be given equal space!
- The newspaper staff should be suspended!
- The newspaper adviser is a "communist" and a "socialist" and should be fired!
- "No one should force their beliefs and opinions on anyone"
- "I am in complete and utter disgust at this blatant attempt to sway the minds of impressionable young voters"
The good news is that the school district is 100% standing firmly behind the students and the newspaper advisor, citing first amendment rights.
posted by mochapickle at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [81 favorites]
As it turns out, I want to be back in college!
Or even high school! Here in the super-red Colorado Springs area, pro-DJT parents freaked out when a student editorial board at a local high school paper endorsed Clinton.
Responses from pro-DJT parents:
- It's inappropriate for a student publication!
- DJT should be given equal space!
- The newspaper staff should be suspended!
- The newspaper adviser is a "communist" and a "socialist" and should be fired!
- "No one should force their beliefs and opinions on anyone"
- "I am in complete and utter disgust at this blatant attempt to sway the minds of impressionable young voters"
The good news is that the school district is 100% standing firmly behind the students and the newspaper advisor, citing first amendment rights.
posted by mochapickle at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [81 favorites]
The New York Review of Books has a series of essays on the current election and the state of politics and its worth taking a look at for anyont interested:
On the Election—Iposted by Fizz at 7:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
Russell Baker, G.W. Bowersock, and David Bromwich
What is to be done about the Republican Party?
On the Election—II
Mark Danner, Andrew Delbanco, and Elizabeth Drew
A struggle for political power in which, for once, all is at stake
On the Election—III
Benjamin M. Friedman, Diane Johnson, and Nicholas Lemann
This year’s election is not about economics. Yet economics is at the heart of the matter.
On the Election—IV
Jessica T. Mathews, Darryl Pinckney, Marilynne Robinson, and Garry Wills
One way to evaluate people, a way not often given enough importance, is by a human test of the company they keep.
One is a flaming Nazi gasbag and the other was an airship.
One is a flaming Nazi gasbag that made onlookers weep for humanity, ultimately becoming an iconic symbol of total disaster...and the other was an airship.
posted by BlueDuke at 7:37 AM on October 23, 2016 [52 favorites]
One is a flaming Nazi gasbag that made onlookers weep for humanity, ultimately becoming an iconic symbol of total disaster...and the other was an airship.
posted by BlueDuke at 7:37 AM on October 23, 2016 [52 favorites]
The Log Cabin Republicans, one of the country's most influential LGBT Republican groups, announced Saturday that it would not back the party's presidential nominee, Donald Trump.
Wow, only 3 months after he named Governor No Pizza For The Gays his running mate and after you said the GOP platform was the most anti-LGBT ever. Good job guys!*
(* Not doing a gendered exclusion here; there may be lesbians in the Log Cabin Republicans but I've never seen one in a position of power.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:37 AM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Wow, only 3 months after he named Governor No Pizza For The Gays his running mate and after you said the GOP platform was the most anti-LGBT ever. Good job guys!*
(* Not doing a gendered exclusion here; there may be lesbians in the Log Cabin Republicans but I've never seen one in a position of power.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:37 AM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
When you protest a Trump rally but no one realizes your shirt says "Latinas AGAINST trump" so they take pics w/ you like you're supporters
posted by tonycpsu at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [91 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [91 favorites]
I've also never met a lady log cabin member, and in fact my overall impression of the Log Cabin republicans is "wealthy white men who don't want to lose that sweet wealthy white man privilege at the expense of standing up for anyone else," so, you know...fuck those dudes.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party)I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
As an owner of one five-millionth of the Green Bay Packers, I offer myself as counterexample, along with many of my fellow shareholders in the nation's only truly publicly-owned major sports franchise.
posted by dersins at 7:40 AM on October 23, 2016 [48 favorites]
This is a great roundup of Trump's folly.
posted by h00py at 7:45 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by h00py at 7:45 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
one of the country's most influential LGBT Republican groups
Has anyone ever been damned with fainter praise?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
Has anyone ever been damned with fainter praise?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
None more faint.
posted by Sublimity at 8:00 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Sublimity at 8:00 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow, only 3 months after he named Governor No Pizza For The Gays his running mate and after you said the GOP platform was the most anti-LGBT ever. Good job guys!
Some individual members of the log cabin republicans still have a hard on for Trump. I still can't wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance needed for them to support Trump or to even be a part of that group.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:01 AM on October 23, 2016
Some individual members of the log cabin republicans still have a hard on for Trump. I still can't wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance needed for them to support Trump or to even be a part of that group.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:01 AM on October 23, 2016
New @CBSNews Battleground Tracker polls:
FL:
Clinton 46
Trump 43
TX:
Trump 46
Clinton 43
C'mon Texas! While losing AZ would hopefully be a wakeup call, losing Texas is an existential crisis for the GOP. And even if they don't lose it, Texas becoming like Pennsylvania is for Dems where they win it but always have to defend it is huge damage to them.
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
FL:
Clinton 46
Trump 43
TX:
Trump 46
Clinton 43
C'mon Texas! While losing AZ would hopefully be a wakeup call, losing Texas is an existential crisis for the GOP. And even if they don't lose it, Texas becoming like Pennsylvania is for Dems where they win it but always have to defend it is huge damage to them.
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
> Not doing a gendered exclusion here; there may be lesbians in the Log Cabin Republicans but I've never seen one in a position of power.
http://www.logcabin.org/about-us/leadership/
posted by andrewcooke at 8:04 AM on October 23, 2016
http://www.logcabin.org/about-us/leadership/
posted by andrewcooke at 8:04 AM on October 23, 2016
NYT Interactive: ‘Not a Regular Day’: What a Trump Rally Clash Reveals About a Divided Nation
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I still can't wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance needed for them to support Trump or to even be a part of that group
if you've got enough money, laws are for the little people
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:13 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
if you've got enough money, laws are for the little people
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:13 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The New Yorker Endorses Hillary Clinton
On November 8th, barring some astonishment, the people of the United States will, after two hundred and forty years, send a woman to the White House. The election of Hillary Clinton is an event that we will welcome for its immense historical importance, and greet with indescribable relief. It will be especially gratifying to have a woman as commander-in-chief after such a sickeningly sexist and racist campaign, one that exposed so starkly how far our society has to go. The vileness of her opponent’s rhetoric and his record has been so widely aired that we can only hope she will be able to use her office and her impressive resolve to battle prejudice wherever it may be found.posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
How long until Trump fires here or slams her on Twitter?
@SopanDeb
.@KellyannePolls goes rogue to @chucktodd, admits something Trump won't - that he is losing right now: [screenshot of full transcript]
posted by chris24 at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
@SopanDeb
.@KellyannePolls goes rogue to @chucktodd, admits something Trump won't - that he is losing right now: [screenshot of full transcript]
posted by chris24 at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Demographics are coming for Texas whether it goes blue this year or not.
@williamjordann
Texas likely voters by age:
65+: Trump +22
45-64: Trump +14
30-44: Clinton +8
18-29: Clinton +21
Battleground polls
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
@williamjordann
Texas likely voters by age:
65+: Trump +22
45-64: Trump +14
30-44: Clinton +8
18-29: Clinton +21
Battleground polls
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
I'm not sure that "we are behind" can in any way be constituted as an admission of "losing."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure that "we are behind" can in any way be constituted as an admission of "losing."
Yeah.. She's been calling him an underdog for a while now.
posted by mochapickle at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah.. She's been calling him an underdog for a while now.
posted by mochapickle at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you are behind in the polls then you are losing the race, no?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure that "we are behind" can in any way be constituted as an admission of "losing."
I'm not sure it can be interpreted any other way. When you're ahead you're winning, when you're behind you're losing.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure it can be interpreted any other way. When you're ahead you're winning, when you're behind you're losing.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
From a PR perspective, being behind in the polls can mean a lot of things that don't necessarily add up to losing. Polls can be, and have been, very wrong, because they sample the wrong populations, which happens quite often. I don't think Conway will get dinged for the comment. The Trump campaign's entire modus seems to be that the media is misreporting their majority. I don't think that's the case, but that's what they believe.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on October 23, 2016
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
Jeannie Buss (Lakers) and Magic Johnson (Dodgers, Sparks) but there are others in the NBA. Magic even had a big fundraiser for Hillary this year.
Big league team owners
Bigly team owners, surely.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Jeannie Buss (Lakers) and Magic Johnson (Dodgers, Sparks) but there are others in the NBA. Magic even had a big fundraiser for Hillary this year.
Big league team owners
Bigly team owners, surely.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
The party that started with Lincoln and was the party of my hero, Teddy Roosevelt.
Hold up -- TR bailed from the big-money screw-the-little-guy GOP in 1912 and ran for a third-ish term as a Progressive, putting the sitting do-nothing ur-conservative Taft in third in the popular vote and EC (Taft won just Utah and VT)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hold up -- TR bailed from the big-money screw-the-little-guy GOP in 1912 and ran for a third-ish term as a Progressive, putting the sitting do-nothing ur-conservative Taft in third in the popular vote and EC (Taft won just Utah and VT)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Here is Clinton's fact sheet on voting rights. It calls for "universal, automatic voter registration, where every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote when they turn eighteen – unless they actively choose to opt out." I don't know what the plan for implementing that is though, or getting the states to sign on.
My understanding is that Congress has a couple of avenues for directly regulating elections:
- The Elections Clause, art. I, § 4, allows Congress to regulate the "time, places and manner" of federal elections. So you write the law to specify registration rules just for federal elections. In theory states could run parallel registration and voting systems for state elections that don't comply with federal law, but they don't seem to do that -- probably because it would be expensive and embarrassing, and set up a weird divide between state and federal-level politicians that would be hard to sustain.
- The congressional enforcement power under the 14th and 15th Amendments allows Congress to stop states from violating equal protection or due process or abridging voting rights on the basis of race. So you write the law to include findings that the following provisions will protect voters from discriminatory voting procedures, and it remains good law unless a state manages to convince a court that you haven't met that standard.
You can see both of these approaches being used in the National Voter Registration Act aka Motor Voter [pdf], for example.
(Interesting side note -- Motor Voter also requires states to offer the "register to vote" checkbox on applications for public assistance, to help address the problem that poorer people are less likely to apply for a driver's license. States seem to have no trouble with the driver's license part, but are not great at following this part of the law. [Link to testimony from Demos, an organization that does awesome work on this stuff.] This is one example of how the shape of our electorate is structural -- not coincidental, and not because of differences in civic engagement or responsibility. It also goes to show that "getting the states to sign on" is more than just creating a legal requirement for them to do something.)
Both the scope of the Elections Clause and of the 14th+15th enforcement power are hotly contested, of course -- here's SCOTUSBlog coverage of the Court knocking them around in Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona and Shelby County v. Holder. The more reform we put on the table, the hotter this contest is going to get.
As the SCOTUSBlog writeups show, the federal ability to provide for fair elections is uncertain -- Shelby was 5-4 with Scalia in the majority, and Arizona was 7-2 but with a lot of hard questions left undecided to reach that level of consensus. The writeups also show that these rights depend on a functioning Congress -- laws are struck down not necessarily because they're bad, but because Congress can't keep them up to date or patch holes in them.
So the plan depends on: you need a Supreme Court that recognizes Congress's ability to provide for better elections. You need a Congress that is able to pass workable legislation. You need enforcement of the laws from the executive branch and from outside organizations like Demos. I'm looking out my window this sunny Sunday morning and somehow all of that feels possible right now.
posted by john hadron collider at 8:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [33 favorites]
My understanding is that Congress has a couple of avenues for directly regulating elections:
- The Elections Clause, art. I, § 4, allows Congress to regulate the "time, places and manner" of federal elections. So you write the law to specify registration rules just for federal elections. In theory states could run parallel registration and voting systems for state elections that don't comply with federal law, but they don't seem to do that -- probably because it would be expensive and embarrassing, and set up a weird divide between state and federal-level politicians that would be hard to sustain.
- The congressional enforcement power under the 14th and 15th Amendments allows Congress to stop states from violating equal protection or due process or abridging voting rights on the basis of race. So you write the law to include findings that the following provisions will protect voters from discriminatory voting procedures, and it remains good law unless a state manages to convince a court that you haven't met that standard.
You can see both of these approaches being used in the National Voter Registration Act aka Motor Voter [pdf], for example.
(Interesting side note -- Motor Voter also requires states to offer the "register to vote" checkbox on applications for public assistance, to help address the problem that poorer people are less likely to apply for a driver's license. States seem to have no trouble with the driver's license part, but are not great at following this part of the law. [Link to testimony from Demos, an organization that does awesome work on this stuff.] This is one example of how the shape of our electorate is structural -- not coincidental, and not because of differences in civic engagement or responsibility. It also goes to show that "getting the states to sign on" is more than just creating a legal requirement for them to do something.)
Both the scope of the Elections Clause and of the 14th+15th enforcement power are hotly contested, of course -- here's SCOTUSBlog coverage of the Court knocking them around in Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona and Shelby County v. Holder. The more reform we put on the table, the hotter this contest is going to get.
As the SCOTUSBlog writeups show, the federal ability to provide for fair elections is uncertain -- Shelby was 5-4 with Scalia in the majority, and Arizona was 7-2 but with a lot of hard questions left undecided to reach that level of consensus. The writeups also show that these rights depend on a functioning Congress -- laws are struck down not necessarily because they're bad, but because Congress can't keep them up to date or patch holes in them.
So the plan depends on: you need a Supreme Court that recognizes Congress's ability to provide for better elections. You need a Congress that is able to pass workable legislation. You need enforcement of the laws from the executive branch and from outside organizations like Demos. I'm looking out my window this sunny Sunday morning and somehow all of that feels possible right now.
posted by john hadron collider at 8:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [33 favorites]
Texas likely voters by age: 18-29: Clinton +21
The kids are all right.
posted by Slothrup at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
The kids are all right.
posted by Slothrup at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
Politico has an article on the disparity between the McCrory and Trump messages on the economy.
It starts like this:
It starts like this:
North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory is desperate to talk about his economic achievements after a year mired in contentious debate over social issues, including the state’s transgender “bathroom law.”posted by kingless at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
The only problem? Donald Trump keeps coming to town and telling voters how terrible the economy is.
Joy Reid talking with David French about his article yesterday. Joy asking about the nazification of the trump movement. Really good discussion but so scary how people who support him could be led into fascism so easily and so fully.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:03 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.
In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?
posted by one_bean at 9:05 AM on October 23, 2016
In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?
posted by one_bean at 9:05 AM on October 23, 2016
In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?
The driver license applications in TN specifically ask you if you wish to register to vote. People can mark no. For example, if you just voted, but haven't moved, you have no reason to register or change your registration. So the option is always given, but can be declined.
Edit for clarity: marking no does not cancel your registration.
posted by Groundhog Week at 9:13 AM on October 23, 2016
The driver license applications in TN specifically ask you if you wish to register to vote. People can mark no. For example, if you just voted, but haven't moved, you have no reason to register or change your registration. So the option is always given, but can be declined.
Edit for clarity: marking no does not cancel your registration.
posted by Groundhog Week at 9:13 AM on October 23, 2016
In what way is motor voter not mandatory right now?
In the way that the vast majority of states don't automatically register you to vote when you obtain or change your driver's license?
Under the Voter Registration Act of 1993, states are required to offer the opportunity to register under those circumstances, but are not mandated to actually register folks to vote unless they opt in.
An opt-out system (like Oregon's) results in many more registered voters. We'll see in November whether it results in more actual voters, but I suspect it will.
posted by dersins at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the way that the vast majority of states don't automatically register you to vote when you obtain or change your driver's license?
Under the Voter Registration Act of 1993, states are required to offer the opportunity to register under those circumstances, but are not mandated to actually register folks to vote unless they opt in.
An opt-out system (like Oregon's) results in many more registered voters. We'll see in November whether it results in more actual voters, but I suspect it will.
posted by dersins at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, if you have a disability that prevents you from driving, but does not require you to apply for public assistance, you are basically exempt from motor voter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Got it, thanks. I was reading that as states had the option of implementing the law.
posted by one_bean at 9:17 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by one_bean at 9:17 AM on October 23, 2016
The Gettysburg Challenge: Lincoln or Trump?
- “Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”
- “It is my privilege to be here in Gettysburg, hallowed ground where so many lives were given in service to freedom — amazing place”
- “It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.”
- “At my rallies, they never show or talk about the massive crowd size and try to diminish all of our events.”
- “…that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth”
- “Every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. Total fabrication. The events never happened. Never. All of these liars will be sued after the election is over.”
Jesus Christ I'm on /pol/ and one mob thinks the "redpill polls" are right and they're taking 7-1 odds on Trump. One guy put down $22K in savings and another is taking about putting down cash advances, payday loans, and basically everything he owns.
My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
posted by Talez at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
posted by Talez at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
It is my privilege to be here in Gettysburg, hallowed ground where so many lives were given in service to freedom — amazing place
He said "hollowed" btw
posted by tzikeh at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
He said "hollowed" btw
posted by tzikeh at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
The new CBS poll also has Rubio at only +2. I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.
The answer is up the thread a ways but basically they're thinking it's coattails from here on out in FL. Get out the vote for HRC and Murphy will get enough to go over the top on Rubio.
posted by Ber at 9:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
The answer is up the thread a ways but basically they're thinking it's coattails from here on out in FL. Get out the vote for HRC and Murphy will get enough to go over the top on Rubio.
posted by Ber at 9:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
2009-2014 I didn't want the Dem Senate doing the GOP's dirtywork for them in jettisoning the filibuster (clearly the GOP strategy was to force the majority to make this change by opposing everything)
With the Garland thing there's no line the GOP won't cross to fuck with our democracy so it's gotta be best [less worse] to just move the Senate to 50+1, should Dems retake it this year.
I'm pretty certain if the [current shithead] GOP ever wins the presidency and Senate they'd ditch it forthwith anyway.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
With the Garland thing there's no line the GOP won't cross to fuck with our democracy so it's gotta be best [less worse] to just move the Senate to 50+1, should Dems retake it this year.
I'm pretty certain if the [current shithead] GOP ever wins the presidency and Senate they'd ditch it forthwith anyway.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The new CBS poll also has Rubio at only +2. I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.
The explanation I saw (maybe in the last election thread, maybe on Twitter) is that Murphy is close but probably wouldn't make it without riding a Clinton wave because Rubio is outperforming Trump with Hispanic voters. So, the DSCC probably pulled out because Murphy would probably benefit more from the Clinton campaign's work there than anything DSCC could do anyway, and are putting the money into tighter races.
posted by donatella at 9:27 AM on October 23, 2016
The explanation I saw (maybe in the last election thread, maybe on Twitter) is that Murphy is close but probably wouldn't make it without riding a Clinton wave because Rubio is outperforming Trump with Hispanic voters. So, the DSCC probably pulled out because Murphy would probably benefit more from the Clinton campaign's work there than anything DSCC could do anyway, and are putting the money into tighter races.
posted by donatella at 9:27 AM on October 23, 2016
My heart breaks for these people.
Mine doesn't.
They're betting it all on a racist, sexist fascist who promises to punish all the people these dudes hate. My sympathy cupboard is pretty fucking bare.
I can only hope the person taking their money is some flinty-eyed WOC feminist.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
Mine doesn't.
They're betting it all on a racist, sexist fascist who promises to punish all the people these dudes hate. My sympathy cupboard is pretty fucking bare.
I can only hope the person taking their money is some flinty-eyed WOC feminist.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
My heart breaks for these people.
Mine doesn't.
Yeah, how do I get in on that? I think I need to find that one dude who unfriended me on FB and see if I can set something up.
posted by tclark at 9:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mine doesn't.
Yeah, how do I get in on that? I think I need to find that one dude who unfriended me on FB and see if I can set something up.
posted by tclark at 9:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Jesus Christ I'm on /pol/ and one mob thinks the "redpill polls" are right and they're taking 7-1 odds on Trump. One guy put down $22K in savings and another is taking about putting down cash advances, payday loans, and basically everything he owns.
My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
That reminds me of the people who stake everything on making it big (bigly?) through multi-level marketing scams. Or winning the lottery. I recall reading somewhere - on CNN or another mainstream news site - that people who get involved in MLMs tend to be uneducated, unskilled, and unable to leverage themselves into earning decent money at a real job - so they grasp at scammy straws. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
That reminds me of the people who stake everything on making it big (bigly?) through multi-level marketing scams. Or winning the lottery. I recall reading somewhere - on CNN or another mainstream news site - that people who get involved in MLMs tend to be uneducated, unskilled, and unable to leverage themselves into earning decent money at a real job - so they grasp at scammy straws. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:35 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
I was a gathering last night of professional people who work in medical, a Halloween costume party. They ran Fox News on the large TV as part of the costuming for their house, calling it a Horror Show.
posted by Oyéah at 9:36 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 9:36 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I probably wouldn't invest a lot of energy in setting up wagers with people who are fans of a man whose business strategy is to never pay his debts.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:39 AM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
I've mentioned it before but this is a popular shirt in my Native American activist friends' circles these days.
That's a thought provoking shirt. If I (white guy) wore it, would I be supporting or offending the Native American community?
posted by ctmf at 9:40 AM on October 23, 2016
That's a thought provoking shirt. If I (white guy) wore it, would I be supporting or offending the Native American community?
posted by ctmf at 9:40 AM on October 23, 2016
One guy put down $22K in savings and another is taking about putting down cash advances, payday loans, and basically everything he owns.
At first I winced in sympathy, but then I remembered if I lose my Obamacare due to a Trump victory, my 3-person family will pay more than that per year for our health insurance, given our pre-exisiting conditions. So, yeah, this election is costly for me.
posted by puddledork at 9:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [56 favorites]
At first I winced in sympathy, but then I remembered if I lose my Obamacare due to a Trump victory, my 3-person family will pay more than that per year for our health insurance, given our pre-exisiting conditions. So, yeah, this election is costly for me.
posted by puddledork at 9:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [56 favorites]
one mob thinks the "redpill polls" are right
It is always kind of shocking to me when I'm reminded that people actually believe this stuff, instead of just using it as some kind of troll/shock position in argument.
posted by thelonius at 9:44 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
It is always kind of shocking to me when I'm reminded that people actually believe this stuff, instead of just using it as some kind of troll/shock position in argument.
posted by thelonius at 9:44 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.
and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if, assuming he loses the election as badly as it looks like he might, he takes his tarnished brand out of the mainstream altogether and plants it firmly in the sub-stream of late late night TV (or whatever the near future equivalent shall be) and uses it to front an ongoing and lucrative get-rich-QUICK-is-the-only-way-you-can-get-rich scam. It will probably even become its own noun. Trumping ... or whatever.
posted by philip-random at 9:48 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if, assuming he loses the election as badly as it looks like he might, he takes his tarnished brand out of the mainstream altogether and plants it firmly in the sub-stream of late late night TV (or whatever the near future equivalent shall be) and uses it to front an ongoing and lucrative get-rich-QUICK-is-the-only-way-you-can-get-rich scam. It will probably even become its own noun. Trumping ... or whatever.
posted by philip-random at 9:48 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'd be interested in knowing what the DSCC saw internally that made them pull out of the FL Senate race.
Keepin' It 1600 talked a little about this, and I think it was mentioned in the last thread: Florida is a large state with some of the nation's most expensive media markets; the DSCC's job is to get to 50. So if it's a choice between ads in FL (where strong GOTV and lots of rallies may help downticket) or both MO and IN (states where it's cheaper to advertise, Trump has the advantage, but the Dem Senate candidates are performing better than Clinton) then you try to spend the money there.
the disparity between the McCrory and Trump messages on the economy.
This is why I've always considered NC a surer bet than somewhere like Ohio for the Dems: the political climate was bad enough for McCrory thanks to the locked-in state-leg majority -- all Cooper has to say is that he'll veto shit like HB2 and make Duke Energy clean up its shit -- and the only way to pull in the white-collar suburban business types is to talk about the economy. Then Trump shows up in former mill and furniture towns and says it's all terrible. (In passing, it'd be good never to have to read Ricky Diaz flacking for McCrory again.)
posted by holgate at 9:49 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Keepin' It 1600 talked a little about this, and I think it was mentioned in the last thread: Florida is a large state with some of the nation's most expensive media markets; the DSCC's job is to get to 50. So if it's a choice between ads in FL (where strong GOTV and lots of rallies may help downticket) or both MO and IN (states where it's cheaper to advertise, Trump has the advantage, but the Dem Senate candidates are performing better than Clinton) then you try to spend the money there.
the disparity between the McCrory and Trump messages on the economy.
This is why I've always considered NC a surer bet than somewhere like Ohio for the Dems: the political climate was bad enough for McCrory thanks to the locked-in state-leg majority -- all Cooper has to say is that he'll veto shit like HB2 and make Duke Energy clean up its shit -- and the only way to pull in the white-collar suburban business types is to talk about the economy. Then Trump shows up in former mill and furniture towns and says it's all terrible. (In passing, it'd be good never to have to read Ricky Diaz flacking for McCrory again.)
posted by holgate at 9:49 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't know what the fuck to make of the fact that 41% of likely voters don't reject the idea that the election is rigged.
Well, for my part it would honestly depend on how the question was phrased, and I can certainly see phrasings where I'd want to answer with something more ambiguous than "I reject the idea that the election is rigged"
From the poll results that sallybrown linked above, the actual wording was:
Well, for my part it would honestly depend on how the question was phrased, and I can certainly see phrasings where I'd want to answer with something more ambiguous than "I reject the idea that the election is rigged"
From the poll results that sallybrown linked above, the actual wording was:
9. (ASKED OF LIKELY VOTERS) Trump has said he thinks the election might be rigged so that Clinton could be elected through vote fraud. Do you think (this is a legitimate concern), or do you think (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election)?posted by alleycat01 at 9:49 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Jeannie Buss (Lakers) and Magic Johnson (Dodgers, Sparks) but there are others in the NBA. Magic even had a big fundraiser for Hillary this year.
To nitpick: Magic is a 1% owner, so he's more of the "Face of the Dodger Ownership". Guggenheim Partners, an investment firm, is the main owner.
But, 1% of a multi-billion dollar franchise is pretty sweet. Also 117 days until pitchers and catchers report!
posted by sideshow at 9:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
To nitpick: Magic is a 1% owner, so he's more of the "Face of the Dodger Ownership". Guggenheim Partners, an investment firm, is the main owner.
But, 1% of a multi-billion dollar franchise is pretty sweet. Also 117 days until pitchers and catchers report!
posted by sideshow at 9:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
These threads move so fast that I've had to skip a few so sorry if this question has been asked already: When are the debates?
posted by guiseroom at 9:59 AM on October 23, 2016 [40 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 9:59 AM on October 23, 2016 [40 favorites]
alleycat01: From the poll results that sallybrown linked above, the actual wording was:
9. (ASKED OF LIKELY VOTERS) Trump has said he thinks the election might be rigged so that Clinton could be elected through vote fraud. Do you think (this is a legitimate concern), or do you think (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election)?
Yeah, there's a mile of difference between thinking "the election is rigged" and "there is a legitimate concern that the election might be rigged". One is a conclusive opinion, and the other is an easy fallback position if you don't know but have some distrust in the system.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:01 AM on October 23, 2016
9. (ASKED OF LIKELY VOTERS) Trump has said he thinks the election might be rigged so that Clinton could be elected through vote fraud. Do you think (this is a legitimate concern), or do you think (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election)?
Yeah, there's a mile of difference between thinking "the election is rigged" and "there is a legitimate concern that the election might be rigged". One is a conclusive opinion, and the other is an easy fallback position if you don't know but have some distrust in the system.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:01 AM on October 23, 2016
The IBD poll that Trump is now quoting all the time since he leads in it? It had Romney up by 5% in October of 2012.
So the 3 polls he leads in are very right leaning Rasmussen, the crazy LAT/USC, and the IBD.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
So the 3 polls he leads in are very right leaning Rasmussen, the crazy LAT/USC, and the IBD.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Guiseroom:
John Cage wrote a musical piece titled "0'00"" (as in, zero minutes zero seconds) and said it was "to be played by anyone, anywhere." The remaining debates are like that.
posted by argybarg at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
John Cage wrote a musical piece titled "0'00"" (as in, zero minutes zero seconds) and said it was "to be played by anyone, anywhere." The remaining debates are like that.
posted by argybarg at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
(this is a legitimate concern), always. And being a legitimate concern, it is closely watched and guarded against. There is no evidence that we are in danger of that so far. Also, (Trump is trying to make excuses in case he loses the election).
So, b I guess?
posted by ctmf at 10:09 AM on October 23, 2016
So, b I guess?
posted by ctmf at 10:09 AM on October 23, 2016
I'm glad I don't have to worry so much about Trump winning anymore but I'm baffled by the views of (mostly) twenty- and thirtysomething dudes in my small local lefty ethnic community. I was having a conversation with a good friend last night and found out that he believes that the winner (in either case) will immediately be impeached. I was like, "Uhh, setting Trump aside for a second, why the heck do you think Hillary would be impeached?" Answer: 1. Emails!!!! 2. Something about her accepting money to stop supporting single-payer healthcare. I am not sure if he had noticed the multiple Hillary buttons on my bag when he started in on this line of reasoning, but I don't do well with in-person political disagreements so I simply picked the bag up, stroked it thoughtfully, and then fled.
The worst part? The reason this even came up is because earlier in the day, walking down my street with no one else around, I saw a prop plane flying overhead with a banner reading, I shit you not, "CA Chinese Americans for Trump." I live in San Francisco and I actually burst out laughing when I realized what it said, and thought about how much money someone paid to gain exactly zero votes. But then I thought, if the people behind this are not stupid (a big if, I know) and realize that their banner will not actually affect the electoral outcome in California, what ARE they trying to say? Just fuck you to the world? It was a little unsettling.
Anyway, there are about four other dudes on my Facebook who make a big point of not supporting Hillary, and talk about her being "corrupt" and the election being "rigged." It's so disturbing to me the way they're mirroring the language of Trump supporters. (Again, we're all POC in San Francisco; actual Trump supporters are basically mythical creatures to us.) And it really bothers me that we finally have a candidate who really speaks to me, and the misogynist hate machine has already begun its work.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [28 favorites]
The worst part? The reason this even came up is because earlier in the day, walking down my street with no one else around, I saw a prop plane flying overhead with a banner reading, I shit you not, "CA Chinese Americans for Trump." I live in San Francisco and I actually burst out laughing when I realized what it said, and thought about how much money someone paid to gain exactly zero votes. But then I thought, if the people behind this are not stupid (a big if, I know) and realize that their banner will not actually affect the electoral outcome in California, what ARE they trying to say? Just fuck you to the world? It was a little unsettling.
Anyway, there are about four other dudes on my Facebook who make a big point of not supporting Hillary, and talk about her being "corrupt" and the election being "rigged." It's so disturbing to me the way they're mirroring the language of Trump supporters. (Again, we're all POC in San Francisco; actual Trump supporters are basically mythical creatures to us.) And it really bothers me that we finally have a candidate who really speaks to me, and the misogynist hate machine has already begun its work.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [28 favorites]
so I simply picked the bag up, stroked it thoughtfully, and then fled.
'Treat them exactly as I would if they had started talking about contrails' is the strategy I use, too.
posted by ctmf at 10:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
'Treat them exactly as I would if they had started talking about contrails' is the strategy I use, too.
posted by ctmf at 10:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
I wouldn't even take odds that these are real people. I'd bet that they are 'confederates' trying to pump the confidence of smaller fry rubes.
posted by srboisvert at 10:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
I wouldn't even take odds that these are real people. I'd bet that they are 'confederates' trying to pump the confidence of smaller fry rubes.
posted by srboisvert at 10:18 AM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
I know a lot of affluent white lefties who find Hillary "corrupt" and the election "rigged" because they can't fathom the world not bending to their White Man Spirit Journey and not having Bernie/whoever they choose. To them, the most important thing they can do is vote Jill Stein (or write in Bernie) to show that nothing will ever take away their right to have their emotive fantasies catered to.
posted by argybarg at 10:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [65 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 10:21 AM on October 23, 2016 [65 favorites]
Yeah, as much as I firmly believe due to polling that Millennials* are on board with Clinton, likely Democratic voting men are on board with Clinton, etc, I continue to have Facebook arguments on a daily basis with male friends who are quick to criticize her, often on issues that they are woefully uninformed about. I suppose it's possible that these friends would be criticizing any Democratic presidential candidate, but it just feels so fucking gendered to me. The core issue seems like an inability to sit down and accept a female President.
And, yes, despite the fact that many of them claim to be criticizing Clinton from the left, it's surprising how often their arguments mirror those of Trump supporters, and of the far-right early 90s Republicans who would do anything in their power to discredit the Clintons.
* I mention Millennials because, as a 30-something, I'd peg a solid half or more of my male friends fall into that demographic. I'm sure there are older dudes doing this, too.
posted by Sara C. at 10:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
And, yes, despite the fact that many of them claim to be criticizing Clinton from the left, it's surprising how often their arguments mirror those of Trump supporters, and of the far-right early 90s Republicans who would do anything in their power to discredit the Clintons.
* I mention Millennials because, as a 30-something, I'd peg a solid half or more of my male friends fall into that demographic. I'm sure there are older dudes doing this, too.
posted by Sara C. at 10:22 AM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
Remind them that to remove the President after the House votes for impeachment the Constitution requires a 2/3 majority to vote to convict in the Senate.
posted by humanfont at 10:25 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 10:25 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I recall reading somewhere - on CNN or another mainstream news site - that people who get involved in MLMs tend to be uneducated, unskilled, and unable to leverage themselves into earning decent money at a real job - so they grasp at scammy straws. Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.
This of course was absolutely the MO of Trump University, sorry, "Trump Entrepreneur Initiative" (it later had its name changed since it did not actually have an educational license). The good news is that should Trump - in the ultimate worst-case scenario - win in November, the three cases of fraud and racketeering he currently has against him in federal court are arguably impeachable offences.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
This of course was absolutely the MO of Trump University, sorry, "Trump Entrepreneur Initiative" (it later had its name changed since it did not actually have an educational license). The good news is that should Trump - in the ultimate worst-case scenario - win in November, the three cases of fraud and racketeering he currently has against him in federal court are arguably impeachable offences.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:27 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump Place residents are petitioning to change the name on their building
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
I get the "white man is special snowflake" thing, and really there's not SO much difference in the modern world between affluent Japanese American lefties and affluent white lefties, but having worked with these guys over the years on community building, I guess I just hoped they would know better. I cannot believe that men whose grandparents were in the internment camps would think Hillary is "the same" as Trump.
It's weird. I don't know that it's Hillary's femaleness that stops them from accepting her (although all their talking points come from people who hate her for that reason, which is a small but significant difference IMO). But the fact that I and other women support Hillary, and that these guys don't think that's worth listening to, is what's most disappointing to me.
Remind them that to remove the President after the House votes for impeachment the Constitution requires a 2/3 majority to vote to convict in the Senate.
I actually said "Uh you think Congress is going to vote to impeach Hillary Clinton" and he seemed convinced that the process would be initiated by the Supreme Court, and he also insisted that Bill Clinton had actually been convicted but reached the end of his term before he would have been removed from office, so, we're not actually working with a great deal of knowledge or basis in reality here. I stand by my response of fleeing at the first opportunity.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
It's weird. I don't know that it's Hillary's femaleness that stops them from accepting her (although all their talking points come from people who hate her for that reason, which is a small but significant difference IMO). But the fact that I and other women support Hillary, and that these guys don't think that's worth listening to, is what's most disappointing to me.
Remind them that to remove the President after the House votes for impeachment the Constitution requires a 2/3 majority to vote to convict in the Senate.
I actually said "Uh you think Congress is going to vote to impeach Hillary Clinton" and he seemed convinced that the process would be initiated by the Supreme Court, and he also insisted that Bill Clinton had actually been convicted but reached the end of his term before he would have been removed from office, so, we're not actually working with a great deal of knowledge or basis in reality here. I stand by my response of fleeing at the first opportunity.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:34 AM on October 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
The House GOP probably will try try to start impeachment over teh emailz.
posted by thelonius at 10:36 AM on October 23, 2016
posted by thelonius at 10:36 AM on October 23, 2016
we're not actually working with a great deal of knowledge or basis in reality here.
This seems to typify all these types of exchanges that I have, which is part of what connects it to me to things like mansplaining, men who assume they are right about everything by default, men who assume all women are wrong/corrupt/liars by default, etc.
posted by Sara C. at 10:38 AM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
This seems to typify all these types of exchanges that I have, which is part of what connects it to me to things like mansplaining, men who assume they are right about everything by default, men who assume all women are wrong/corrupt/liars by default, etc.
posted by Sara C. at 10:38 AM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
The House GOP probably will try try to start impeachment over teh emailz.
I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment. They can't just go find some crime committed years ago and try them for it - they certainly would have done so for Obama by now if that was possible.
posted by LionIndex at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment. They can't just go find some crime committed years ago and try them for it - they certainly would have done so for Obama by now if that was possible.
posted by LionIndex at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
When you protest a Trump rally but no one realizes your shirt says "Latinas AGAINST trump" so they take pics w/ you like you're supportersJeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
posted by xyzzy at 10:44 AM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
The GOP starting a new nothingburger shitstorm every five minutes is pretty much a given at this point though. Getting anything done is going to be very much a matter of working around that.
posted by Artw at 10:47 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:47 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment.
I really don't know, come to think of it, and was assuming that charges related to previous office were relevant - it's a good question.
Article 2, Section 4 says "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." which seems to leave it an open issue as to when those offenses must have been done.
posted by thelonius at 10:52 AM on October 23, 2016
I really don't know, come to think of it, and was assuming that charges related to previous office were relevant - it's a good question.
Article 2, Section 4 says "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." which seems to leave it an open issue as to when those offenses must have been done.
posted by thelonius at 10:52 AM on October 23, 2016
I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.
posted by Sara C. at 10:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 10:53 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's not like they're even going to be starting something new up, just resuming their current holding pattern, actual governance be damned.
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's also going to be VERY hard to gin up support for the idea that emailgate constitutes "high crimes" since they've held numerous investigations at this point and the FBI says there's nothing there.
I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her, there has to be some reason to suspect that Clinton is actually guilty of a crime.
Right?
posted by Sara C. at 10:56 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her, there has to be some reason to suspect that Clinton is actually guilty of a crime.
Right?
posted by Sara C. at 10:56 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.
lol best part about that is that they only found out about those because he paid em. That was probably the only skeleton he had in his closet.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
lol best part about that is that they only found out about those because he paid em. That was probably the only skeleton he had in his closet.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are we drifting back into fighting straw Berniebros again? Come on folks if you see one in the wild just ignore them. They aren't statistically relevant and soon they won't be culturally relevant either. Deep, healing breaths.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:59 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:59 AM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her
Erp. Well, yeah, you'd think so.
posted by thelonius at 11:00 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Erp. Well, yeah, you'd think so.
posted by thelonius at 11:00 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
In general I agree with that, but the confluence of sexist attitudes and the coming reality of a female president makes me feel like this is a battle we'll be fighting for a long time to come. This feels different from the "berniebros" phenomenon, though it is related and tends to involve some of the same individuals.
I definitely don't think the ways that sexism in the general public will influence the Hillary Clinton administration should be off the table for discussion. Especially because that in itself feels pretty sexist.
posted by Sara C. at 11:01 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I definitely don't think the ways that sexism in the general public will influence the Hillary Clinton administration should be off the table for discussion. Especially because that in itself feels pretty sexist.
posted by Sara C. at 11:01 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I would assume that they can't just throw a show trial because 2/3 of congresscritters hate her, there has to be some reason to suspect that Clinton is actually guilty of a crime.
This is exactly what they did to Bill, the only thing stopping them from doing it again is whether or not they remember public opinion against the first kangaroo impeachment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is exactly what they did to Bill, the only thing stopping them from doing it again is whether or not they remember public opinion against the first kangaroo impeachment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:04 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure, but I think they're only limited to stuff that occurs while the target is a sitting President for impeachment.
[puts on professional nerd hat]
The House can impeach for anything it wants to. The only appeal from an impeachment that seemed to lack proper grounds would be that the Senate would vote down the charge with an explicit dismissal rather than an acquittal. This actually happened, sort of, in the early days of the Republic when the House impeached a Senator, which is of course haram. The Senate received the impeachment, dismissed the case because you can't do that, and promptly expelled the offending member on their own. There is no appeal whatsoever from the Senate's decisions in an impeachment trial. So yeah, the House could impeach Obama explicitly for being black and the Senate could convict and remove him from office for being black and that would be that until the second civil war started.
If it were someone less serious-minded than Clinton, I would kinda hope that the House did impeach on some dumbass grounds just so they could actually hire Joe Pesci to run the defense as Vinnie. He would just sit there scowling and his entire defense would be "Everything those other guys said is bullshit." But Clinton would probably dignify it with a serious defense instead of that, or having counsel be a wizard who only speaks pig latin.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
[puts on professional nerd hat]
The House can impeach for anything it wants to. The only appeal from an impeachment that seemed to lack proper grounds would be that the Senate would vote down the charge with an explicit dismissal rather than an acquittal. This actually happened, sort of, in the early days of the Republic when the House impeached a Senator, which is of course haram. The Senate received the impeachment, dismissed the case because you can't do that, and promptly expelled the offending member on their own. There is no appeal whatsoever from the Senate's decisions in an impeachment trial. So yeah, the House could impeach Obama explicitly for being black and the Senate could convict and remove him from office for being black and that would be that until the second civil war started.
If it were someone less serious-minded than Clinton, I would kinda hope that the House did impeach on some dumbass grounds just so they could actually hire Joe Pesci to run the defense as Vinnie. He would just sit there scowling and his entire defense would be "Everything those other guys said is bullshit." But Clinton would probably dignify it with a serious defense instead of that, or having counsel be a wizard who only speaks pig latin.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:05 AM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
They can't just go find some crime committed years ago and try them for it
"The House... shall have the sole power of Impeachment" makes it nonjusticiable under the political question doctrine. They could impeach her for being a woman because all references to the president in Article II say "he".
posted by holgate at 11:08 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
"The House... shall have the sole power of Impeachment" makes it nonjusticiable under the political question doctrine. They could impeach her for being a woman because all references to the president in Article II say "he".
posted by holgate at 11:08 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I feel like they'd have nailed Obama on unpaid Boston parking tickets if they could.
They could do that if they wanted to. They don't because (a) they know they'd nevvvvv-ar get 67 votes to convict in the Senate, and (b) enough of them still remember what happened when they bullshit-impeached Bill Clinton (tl;dr: it only made him stronger than they could possibly imagine) to recognize it as a Bad Idea.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:09 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
They could do that if they wanted to. They don't because (a) they know they'd nevvvvv-ar get 67 votes to convict in the Senate, and (b) enough of them still remember what happened when they bullshit-impeached Bill Clinton (tl;dr: it only made him stronger than they could possibly imagine) to recognize it as a Bad Idea.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:09 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
From liberal beacon to a prop for Trump: what has happened to WikiLeaks? A series of hacked emails appear designed to aid Donald Trump fight back against Hillary Clinton, while raising questions about Russian involvement
Why WikiLeaks hacks haven't hurt Clinton: The Guardian's David Smith says recent WikiLeaks hacks contain more "beltway gossip" than "smoking gun," and so have been overshadowed by Trump scandals.
posted by homunculus at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Why WikiLeaks hacks haven't hurt Clinton: The Guardian's David Smith says recent WikiLeaks hacks contain more "beltway gossip" than "smoking gun," and so have been overshadowed by Trump scandals.
posted by homunculus at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Julia Ioffe: Trump Won’t Inherit the Land, So He’s Sowing It with Salt. It's a tactic straight out of Putin's playbook.
posted by homunculus at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
"How people will react to a HRC administration" seems as impossible to truly predict without relying on as many stereotypes as "What will a HRC administration actually do". A lot of leftists are already predicting dire centrism and neoliberal deregulation from her White House, which is possible but hasn't happened yet so is just fight-picking at this stage. We'll see what happens. I'm hopeful that the left on the whole (outside of the extreme fringe) will be as fair with her mistakes and actions that people disagree with as they were with Obama. And I'm hopeful that she will attempt to do as much as she can to enact her platform. Beyond that, why dig trenches?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:11 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Onion: Trump Campaign Training Poll Watchers To Spot Any Suspicious Skin Colors On Election Day
posted by chris24 at 11:19 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 11:19 AM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
>> When you protest a Trump rally but no one realizes your shirt says "Latinas AGAINST trump" so they take pics w/ you like you're supporters
> Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
Methinks you're misoverestimating people's memory and/or interest
posted by farlukar at 11:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
> Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
Methinks you're misoverestimating people's memory and/or interest
posted by farlukar at 11:24 AM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I do think some of misogynistic foundations of people disliking her both conscious and most importantly unconscious will dissipate over Clinton's time as President. The office of President, the mythos of President, the social culture and symbolism behind the office of the "Leader of the Free World" has been up until now male and while many have no problem imagining a woman in the office many people have problems of imagination. There are just certain types of people that are uncomfortable and push back against thing that are different but are fine once it happens and they can actually see it.
I am very excited to have Hillary and a woman finally make it to this position but even I will admit that it's going to be a bit surreal for me at first. Not bad surreal but just the nature of having no basis of comparison of what it potentially will look and feel like emotionally. She is the first and it is big deal.
In no time though, just like what happened with Obama it will be completely normal. Totally and awesomely normal. I can't wait!
posted by Jalliah at 11:30 AM on October 23, 2016 [22 favorites]
I'd like to see research studies at some point in the future about how this election has affected tertiary aspects of people's lives: productivity at work, heart health, binge drinking, road rage, domestic disputes, general outlook on life.
I'd bet that it's way, way down all across the board. It's taken a vital part of our democracy and basically made it into an albatross around everyone's neck. Making day-to-day life so much worse, and so much meaner in the process. trump has a lot to answer for.
edit: Well, drinking, road rage, and domestic disputes would rise, I more mean "made worse".
posted by codacorolla at 11:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'd bet that it's way, way down all across the board. It's taken a vital part of our democracy and basically made it into an albatross around everyone's neck. Making day-to-day life so much worse, and so much meaner in the process. trump has a lot to answer for.
edit: Well, drinking, road rage, and domestic disputes would rise, I more mean "made worse".
posted by codacorolla at 11:31 AM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
If the house overreaches and attempts to impeach Clinton out of the gate, all historical evidence suggests they would be risking their predicted midterm gains.
Also the future of the United States as a functioning democracy, scant as the evidence is that this is a motivating factor for House Republicans.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also the future of the United States as a functioning democracy, scant as the evidence is that this is a motivating factor for House Republicans.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:32 AM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Clinton's already included nationwide automatic voter registration as one of her planks, and an anti-gerrymandering move would dovetail perfectly with that."
hoyland: Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.
I think they'd have to mandate motor vehicle, as that's how a bunch of states are doing it now; I waffle on the idea of a national ID system due to how we (miss)use Social Security Numbers, which are denied any actual protections because they aren't supposed to be used as IDs. Unfortunately, the whole "number of the beast" think has made advancing any national ID nearly impossible and I don't know how the current Democratic Coalition would handle it. We really DO need some sort of national system of identifying people, though; the current system is cobbled together and a thorough mess. Doing it without ending up in a "papers please" situation given the gutting of the Fourth Amendment, though.... uuuuughuuuu. Not even on the table right now, but it's so important.
The Clinton Plank is: "Automatically register voters. Hillary will work so that every citizen is automatically registered to vote when they turn 18, unless they opt out, and make sure that voter registration rolls are accurate and secure." This is combined with repairing the Voter's Rights Act, expanding Early Voting, suffrage for ex-prisoners (I wish this was suffrage for everyone), and implementing the president’s bipartisan commission to improve voting.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
hoyland: Is this actually feasible? Given that elections are run on the county(?) level? I suppose voter registration is (often?) handled at the state level, so why not? I guess you can mandate motor voter.
I think they'd have to mandate motor vehicle, as that's how a bunch of states are doing it now; I waffle on the idea of a national ID system due to how we (miss)use Social Security Numbers, which are denied any actual protections because they aren't supposed to be used as IDs. Unfortunately, the whole "number of the beast" think has made advancing any national ID nearly impossible and I don't know how the current Democratic Coalition would handle it. We really DO need some sort of national system of identifying people, though; the current system is cobbled together and a thorough mess. Doing it without ending up in a "papers please" situation given the gutting of the Fourth Amendment, though.... uuuuughuuuu. Not even on the table right now, but it's so important.
The Clinton Plank is: "Automatically register voters. Hillary will work so that every citizen is automatically registered to vote when they turn 18, unless they opt out, and make sure that voter registration rolls are accurate and secure." This is combined with repairing the Voter's Rights Act, expanding Early Voting, suffrage for ex-prisoners (I wish this was suffrage for everyone), and implementing the president’s bipartisan commission to improve voting.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
"every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote" ... I don't know what the plan for implementing that is though, or getting the states to sign on.
Off the top of my head: tie it to the Social Security Number - if you're registered as a dependent on someone's taxes growing up, you're registered to vote when you turn 18. Providing ID/verification of that is still an issue, but you don't have to register, just prove that you are who you claim to be and you live where you claim to live - one less step, and the presumption starts with "you are allowed to vote."
"Am I registered?" becomes "where am I registered, and with which party?"
With better data organization, they could remove the need to pre-register in a specific location; the need for regional lists predates computer tech. I like the ability to rely on analog tech, but it'd be nice if a person whose name didn't appear on their local list could call in to state central and have that fixed on election day.
Also, if you have a disability that prevents you from driving, but does not require you to apply for public assistance, you are basically exempt from motor voter.
I don't drive, but I have a state ID card; applying for/renewing that has the same motor voter checkbox. I wish more people, especially teenagers, realized they can get one of those even if they can't/don't drive.
There's no age limit on state ID cards. I got one for my daughter when she was two, because we were looking at the possibility of her doing commercials and that made it much easier for her to have a bank account.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:46 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Off the top of my head: tie it to the Social Security Number - if you're registered as a dependent on someone's taxes growing up, you're registered to vote when you turn 18. Providing ID/verification of that is still an issue, but you don't have to register, just prove that you are who you claim to be and you live where you claim to live - one less step, and the presumption starts with "you are allowed to vote."
"Am I registered?" becomes "where am I registered, and with which party?"
With better data organization, they could remove the need to pre-register in a specific location; the need for regional lists predates computer tech. I like the ability to rely on analog tech, but it'd be nice if a person whose name didn't appear on their local list could call in to state central and have that fixed on election day.
Also, if you have a disability that prevents you from driving, but does not require you to apply for public assistance, you are basically exempt from motor voter.
I don't drive, but I have a state ID card; applying for/renewing that has the same motor voter checkbox. I wish more people, especially teenagers, realized they can get one of those even if they can't/don't drive.
There's no age limit on state ID cards. I got one for my daughter when she was two, because we were looking at the possibility of her doing commercials and that made it much easier for her to have a bank account.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:46 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
Those few Trumpers who remember anything at all about that, may well remember little more than that the Contras were "the good guys." Odds of them knowing the actual meaning of the word seem as slim as their knowing the meaning of "Sandinista."
posted by dersins at 11:51 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Those few Trumpers who remember anything at all about that, may well remember little more than that the Contras were "the good guys." Odds of them knowing the actual meaning of the word seem as slim as their knowing the meaning of "Sandinista."
posted by dersins at 11:51 AM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
#NextPost (or the election one) This handy chart of Trump's excuses.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had a thought today about Trump supporters, after reading about how Hillary Clinton will no longer address him. Well that, and watching some interviews with Trump supporters in their own homes.
So many folks out there in the Midwest and similar areas are pro-Trump because living where they live, a middle-class life is increasingly unsustainable. Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore. Maybe they should be questioning their ideal lifestyles. If you want to live in a rural area, or in low-density towns and suburbs where there is only one primary industry, and the maintenance of all your land, housing and belongings is expensive, then maybe that is the real problem.
The old incarnation of the American dream is to live in a socially isolated, greedy [often mono-ethnic] harmony, surrounded by the kitschy opulence of "simple pleasures". These pleasures themselves are defined by unreasonable and unsustainable abundance; having two cars "for convenience", a huge house for a family of only four, etc. It's the richesse of racism and waste.
You can't fucking have that anymore. No one should.
To the sort of folks who support Trump, my thinking might come off as tantamount to calls of [white] genocide. I don't know what the solution is, here. The obvious one is a great migration. Also perhaps a serious education on the pitfalls and long term impracticality and stability of the American dream is necessary.
posted by constantinescharity at 12:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
So many folks out there in the Midwest and similar areas are pro-Trump because living where they live, a middle-class life is increasingly unsustainable. Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore. Maybe they should be questioning their ideal lifestyles. If you want to live in a rural area, or in low-density towns and suburbs where there is only one primary industry, and the maintenance of all your land, housing and belongings is expensive, then maybe that is the real problem.
The old incarnation of the American dream is to live in a socially isolated, greedy [often mono-ethnic] harmony, surrounded by the kitschy opulence of "simple pleasures". These pleasures themselves are defined by unreasonable and unsustainable abundance; having two cars "for convenience", a huge house for a family of only four, etc. It's the richesse of racism and waste.
You can't fucking have that anymore. No one should.
To the sort of folks who support Trump, my thinking might come off as tantamount to calls of [white] genocide. I don't know what the solution is, here. The obvious one is a great migration. Also perhaps a serious education on the pitfalls and long term impracticality and stability of the American dream is necessary.
posted by constantinescharity at 12:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
> I continue to have Facebook arguments on a daily basis with male friends who are quick to criticize her, often on issues that they are woefully uninformed about. I suppose it's possible that these friends would be criticizing any Democratic presidential candidate, but it just feels so fucking gendered to me. The core issue seems like an inability to sit down and accept a female President.
It's definitely gendered and it's definitely sexism, even though they'd doubtless indignantly deny it. It's one thing to accept intellectually that women are "just as good" as men, but it's very different to claw your way out of the deep well of sexism that (unless you were very lucky) you were steeped in from the moment you first opened your eyes and hollered. I know this from personal experience; I've been "progressive" for almost half a century, but it took me decades to really accept women as equals even subconsciously (I could tell this was happening when, for instance, it stopped seeming a little off to me to hear women's voices giving the news).
And even though I knew consciously that America was still steeped in sexism and racism, it's been a brutal shock to see it coming out into the open lately. May Hillary's victory, and increasing numbers of women in high places, change the minds that can be changed, and may the others rest content with grumbling!
posted by languagehat at 12:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
It's definitely gendered and it's definitely sexism, even though they'd doubtless indignantly deny it. It's one thing to accept intellectually that women are "just as good" as men, but it's very different to claw your way out of the deep well of sexism that (unless you were very lucky) you were steeped in from the moment you first opened your eyes and hollered. I know this from personal experience; I've been "progressive" for almost half a century, but it took me decades to really accept women as equals even subconsciously (I could tell this was happening when, for instance, it stopped seeming a little off to me to hear women's voices giving the news).
And even though I knew consciously that America was still steeped in sexism and racism, it's been a brutal shock to see it coming out into the open lately. May Hillary's victory, and increasing numbers of women in high places, change the minds that can be changed, and may the others rest content with grumbling!
posted by languagehat at 12:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
Curt Schilling's weirdo interview with Jake Tapper and his pathetic Trump rally have already paid off: Curt Schilling Joins Breitbart. He'll have a daily hourlong call-in political show after being kicked off ESPN for sharing a transphobic meme on Facebook.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Talking Points Memo has an article about the abused suffered by David French and his family because he is a never-Trumper. French's article for the National Review was discussed upthread, but TPM has some more info about the Trump family's response to the abuse. Excerpts:
posted by flug at 12:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
David French, a columnist for National Review, and his wife Nancy French, a columnist for the Washington Post, have come under what French called “an unending torrent of abuse that I wouldn’t wish on anyone” in a column published Friday. He describes how, more than a year ago, he began seeing images of his daughter’s face photoshopped into gas chambers or slave ships, and how the comment section of his wife’s blog on Patheos filled with images of extreme violence. . . .The vileness of Gamergate writ large . . .
In May, after journalist Julia Ioffe published a profile of Melania Trump that she says led to a barrage of anti-Semitic death threats, Trump said that while she disagreed with the abuse, “I don’t control my fans,” and, referring to Ioffe, “She provoked them.”
A month later, after New York Observer entertainment writer Dana Schwartz wrote “An Open Letter to Jared Kushner, From One of Your Jewish Employees,” asking Kushner to speak out against the anti-Semitic abuse propagated by some supporters of his father-in-law’s campaign, Kushner responded in the publication. He wrote of Schwartz’s letter, “As always, there are thoughtful points but journalists, even those who work for me at the Observer, are not always right."
posted by flug at 12:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
In Canada you tick a box to affirm you want your voter registration updated with your new info when you file your taxes.
My understanding is that government bodies usually can't share personal info like that without consent, so it's not automatic. Taxes here are bundled, you fill out the federal and provincial at the same time... so I guess the info is shared with both elections oversight bodies when you say "yes".
Anyway, works well, and kind of adds this warm yay citizenry! moment to the tax process.
The one problem is that many poorer people don't file every year (not obliged if you owe no tax) so there can be gaps.
I think it's great that Clinton is looking to make voter registration easy and automatic for the USA.
posted by chapps at 12:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
My understanding is that government bodies usually can't share personal info like that without consent, so it's not automatic. Taxes here are bundled, you fill out the federal and provincial at the same time... so I guess the info is shared with both elections oversight bodies when you say "yes".
Anyway, works well, and kind of adds this warm yay citizenry! moment to the tax process.
The one problem is that many poorer people don't file every year (not obliged if you owe no tax) so there can be gaps.
I think it's great that Clinton is looking to make voter registration easy and automatic for the USA.
posted by chapps at 12:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I voted today - gorgeous weather, no line, and volunteers who were excited to be there and excited we were there.
I vividly remember my Kindergarten class in which Mrs. O asked us to help her put the right velcro labels on a list of who the President can be - A grown-up? Yes! Kid? No! Horse? No! American? Yes! Canadian? No! Farmer? Yes! Teacher? Yes! Man? Yes! Woman?...we weren't sure. And she said, "Yes, a woman can be President, we just haven't had one yet!"
posted by sallybrown at 12:31 PM on October 23, 2016 [78 favorites]
I vividly remember my Kindergarten class in which Mrs. O asked us to help her put the right velcro labels on a list of who the President can be - A grown-up? Yes! Kid? No! Horse? No! American? Yes! Canadian? No! Farmer? Yes! Teacher? Yes! Man? Yes! Woman?...we weren't sure. And she said, "Yes, a woman can be President, we just haven't had one yet!"
posted by sallybrown at 12:31 PM on October 23, 2016 [78 favorites]
I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.
Which is funny enough, until you recall that the guy is using this tactic in Trump's home town - the guy knows that the people who have known Trump the best can be relied upon to despise him the most.
And THEN it's hilarious.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 12:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [47 favorites]
Which is funny enough, until you recall that the guy is using this tactic in Trump's home town - the guy knows that the people who have known Trump the best can be relied upon to despise him the most.
And THEN it's hilarious.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 12:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [47 favorites]
Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore.I think you have to tread very carefully with this argument. Remember the backlash against scientists who argued against the existence of New Orleans after Katrina? Even if it isn't meant that way, it comes off as dismissive of the very real concerns of a community. If I just look at my own personal situation, I find it literally impossible to improve my quality of life. I live in a mental health care desert without the resources to move, so I'm stuck with my suffering without the means to address it. I can guarantee that a huge number of rural folks don't have the means to change their circumstances and feel stuck and abandoned as a result.
posted by xyzzy at 12:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [47 favorites]
I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.
In Florida, there's a non-zero chance he could be worth more than Trump inside of a week.
posted by Mooski at 12:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
In Florida, there's a non-zero chance he could be worth more than Trump inside of a week.
posted by Mooski at 12:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
> I might be a little over invested in seeing Rubio get spanked. My parents will be first time FL voters this year and I CANNOT WAIT for them to get their NY liberal butts to the polls and spray blue all over those ballots.xyzzy (and anyone else in Florida): one of Trump's SCotUS picks, the very conservative, Charles T. Canady, is up for retention on the ballot... if, you know, you wanted to send a message about everyone with Trump's stink on them. :)
(My own mail-in ballot is sitting on the shelf by the front door--filled out, sealed, and signed on the envelope--and will go out Monday.)
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Because information, unlike air and water purity, is entirely subjective. Facts are not subjective, but information is not raw data; a news report is not a string of facts.
So...I just want to point out that this seems to be completely incoherent. You state that (a) information is entirely subjective, (b) facts are not subjective, and (c) information is not raw data. In order to reconcile (a) and (b), we must accept that (d) facts are not information, otherwise the subjectivity element is in contradiction. And in order to accept the "entirely" part of (a), we must go even further and accept that (e) information cannot consist of facts, even in part. But you seem to be equating facts with raw data in (c), which would then mean (e) could not be true.
For rules related to all media outlets distributing info related to the health and function of society... 1st amendment says that we can't make laws about that.
Nonsense. Precedent? The Fairness Doctrine itself. And while it has been rolled back, we nevertheless still have rules that abridge the 1st amendment that relates to all media outlets already. They've been argued in court, and are settled law. The Supreme Court has
Just to bring this back around to election-related subject matter for anybody who has not been following this minor subthread, the idea being explored is whether a philosophical successor to the Fairness Doctrine could be founded on more narrowly defined principles to regulate communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes, to limit misinformation and malinformation to acceptable levels.
Because, you know, it might be nice to see what can be done about the decades-long war on the very concept of consensual, fact-based reality, which does ongoing harm to our society and has made the idea of a Trump presidency conceivable.
posted by perspicio at 12:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
So...I just want to point out that this seems to be completely incoherent. You state that (a) information is entirely subjective, (b) facts are not subjective, and (c) information is not raw data. In order to reconcile (a) and (b), we must accept that (d) facts are not information, otherwise the subjectivity element is in contradiction. And in order to accept the "entirely" part of (a), we must go even further and accept that (e) information cannot consist of facts, even in part. But you seem to be equating facts with raw data in (c), which would then mean (e) could not be true.
For rules related to all media outlets distributing info related to the health and function of society... 1st amendment says that we can't make laws about that.
Nonsense. Precedent? The Fairness Doctrine itself. And while it has been rolled back, we nevertheless still have rules that abridge the 1st amendment that relates to all media outlets already. They've been argued in court, and are settled law. The Supreme Court has
decided that the First Amendment provides no protection for obscenity, child pornography, or speech that constitutes what has become widely known as “fighting words.” The Court has also decided that the First Amendment provides less than full protection to commercial speech, defamation (libel and slander), speech that may be harmful to children, speech broadcast on radio and television (as opposed to speech transmitted via cable or the Internet), and public employees’ speech.Maybe you have deeper knowledge of these matters than I do, and are casting your views in simplified terminology, but in general your arguments come across to me as, "It can't ever be that way because it isn't already that way and changes of this sort are entirely impermissible by law." But no matter how improbable the actual implementation of the ideas I'm putting forth may be, the legal aspect appears to be entirely within the realm of the plausible, and indeed the effort to bring about such changes would enjoy the advantage of clear legal precedent.
Even speech that enjoys the most extensive First Amendment protection may be subject to “regulations of the time, place, and manner of expression which are content-neutral, are narrowly tailored to serve a significant government interest, and leave open ample alternative channels of communication.” Furthermore, even speech that enjoys the most extensive First Amendment protection may be restricted on the basis of its content if the restriction passes “strict scrutiny” (i.e., if the government shows that the restriction serves “to promote a compelling interest” and is “the least restrictive means to further the articulated interest”).
Just to bring this back around to election-related subject matter for anybody who has not been following this minor subthread, the idea being explored is whether a philosophical successor to the Fairness Doctrine could be founded on more narrowly defined principles to regulate communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes, to limit misinformation and malinformation to acceptable levels.
Because, you know, it might be nice to see what can be done about the decades-long war on the very concept of consensual, fact-based reality, which does ongoing harm to our society and has made the idea of a Trump presidency conceivable.
posted by perspicio at 12:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
You can't fucking have that anymore. No one should.
This is what the peak-oil climate change activists have been saying for years: the only real solutions, ones that involve a future that doesn't mean "billions of people die over the course of a few decades," doesn't involve tidy tricks like "solar power for everyone" (we really have been trying to make that work for decades), but cutting back on consumption. Change from 2.2 cars per family to 0.1 cars per family; change from 900 kwh/month to 100 kwh on average, and so on.
This is a drastic change in lifestyle, and of course any politician who promotes it is soundly rejected. And while loss of the middle-class dream of owning a house and two cars, kids off at college, 40+ year job with a single employer with retirement plan is not as drastic - telling people that no, that is no longer viable; you can't have it, and I'm not going to work toward legislation that lets you have it - gets politicians rejected.
It doesn't matter that that dream was founded on oppression of women and minorities that is becoming visible now; the people who want it, sometimes still don't see it - and certainly when they look back at the 50s, they don't see how the infrastructure was based on hidden oppressions.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is what the peak-oil climate change activists have been saying for years: the only real solutions, ones that involve a future that doesn't mean "billions of people die over the course of a few decades," doesn't involve tidy tricks like "solar power for everyone" (we really have been trying to make that work for decades), but cutting back on consumption. Change from 2.2 cars per family to 0.1 cars per family; change from 900 kwh/month to 100 kwh on average, and so on.
This is a drastic change in lifestyle, and of course any politician who promotes it is soundly rejected. And while loss of the middle-class dream of owning a house and two cars, kids off at college, 40+ year job with a single employer with retirement plan is not as drastic - telling people that no, that is no longer viable; you can't have it, and I'm not going to work toward legislation that lets you have it - gets politicians rejected.
It doesn't matter that that dream was founded on oppression of women and minorities that is becoming visible now; the people who want it, sometimes still don't see it - and certainly when they look back at the 50s, they don't see how the infrastructure was based on hidden oppressions.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
GOP internal polling even worse than public polling.
@JohnJHarwood
senior GOP Senate strategist: "Trump now tied in Indiana. down 11 in PA and 14 in NH. going down hard"
posted by chris24 at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
@JohnJHarwood
senior GOP Senate strategist: "Trump now tied in Indiana. down 11 in PA and 14 in NH. going down hard"
posted by chris24 at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
Hillary Clinton's team put together a list of 140 terrible things Trump has said about women, with sources linked for most items:
A running list of all the worst things Donald Trump has said about women. It’s long.
He's overwhelmingly terrible as a human being.
posted by airish at 12:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
A running list of all the worst things Donald Trump has said about women. It’s long.
He's overwhelmingly terrible as a human being.
posted by airish at 12:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
> I'd like to see research studies at some point in the future about how this election has affected tertiary aspects of people's lives: productivity at work, heart health, binge drinking, road rage, domestic disputes, general outlook on life.
Well, I did a quick back-of-the-envelope based just on roughly how much time people on the MeFi 2016 election threads might have spent reading & writing them. Came up with something on the order of one millionth of the US annual GDP. So there's a start.
(Didn't try to factor in binge drinking, road rage, lost friendships, ruined relationships, etc - all that's well reported here and the total would undoubtedly be several times higher with it included, but so much harder to quantify on the back of my envelope . . . )
posted by flug at 12:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, I did a quick back-of-the-envelope based just on roughly how much time people on the MeFi 2016 election threads might have spent reading & writing them. Came up with something on the order of one millionth of the US annual GDP. So there's a start.
(Didn't try to factor in binge drinking, road rage, lost friendships, ruined relationships, etc - all that's well reported here and the total would undoubtedly be several times higher with it included, but so much harder to quantify on the back of my envelope . . . )
posted by flug at 12:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Aren't the Midwest, South, and Rust Belt the only parts of the US where it's relatively easy to live a middle class lifestyle (single income family, home ownership, etc) on roughly the American median income?
As someone living paycheck to paycheck in a major city, who will probably never own my own home and who is fucking boggled at how my partner and I will be able to afford one kid (let alone 3 or 4), I play the world's tiniest violin for these whiners.
posted by Sara C. at 12:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
As someone living paycheck to paycheck in a major city, who will probably never own my own home and who is fucking boggled at how my partner and I will be able to afford one kid (let alone 3 or 4), I play the world's tiniest violin for these whiners.
posted by Sara C. at 12:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
whether a philosophical successor to the Fairness Doctrine could be founded on more narrowly defined principles to regulate communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes, to limit misinformation and malinformation to acceptable levels.
Who defines "communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes?" Does that communication include private conversations between individuals? Does that include public Facebook posts? What about blog posts locked to a limited readership?
Does it include political content, but not science news? If the science news is about new encryption technology that might be used for electronic vote tallying, does it become political content?
If a news editorial says "[Donald Trump/Hillary Clinton] is a demagogue and displays many traits of a classic narcissist," whose responsibility is it to decide if that's accurate enough? Does it change if the statement is, "may display many traits" or "is alleged [by random doctor] to display...?"
I agree with the goal; I think implementation would be a nightmare that runs into too many freedom of speech issues, even if you could get enough legislators to support the idea.
Because, you know, it might be nice to see what can be done about the decades-long war on the very concept of consensual, fact-based reality
It would indeed. But I don't think that can be done by legislating the content of news reports and editorials; it has to start with education of the young and teaching critical thinking skills. That's the area where we should have stricter laws about what is and isn't acceptable - and that's an area where the first amendment is less applicable, because the courts have agreed that a useful education overrides parents' and communities' wishes to keep their kids enveloped in dogma. (In theory. Practice varies a lot.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Who defines "communication that is vital to the health and functioning of our democratic processes?" Does that communication include private conversations between individuals? Does that include public Facebook posts? What about blog posts locked to a limited readership?
Does it include political content, but not science news? If the science news is about new encryption technology that might be used for electronic vote tallying, does it become political content?
If a news editorial says "[Donald Trump/Hillary Clinton] is a demagogue and displays many traits of a classic narcissist," whose responsibility is it to decide if that's accurate enough? Does it change if the statement is, "may display many traits" or "is alleged [by random doctor] to display...?"
I agree with the goal; I think implementation would be a nightmare that runs into too many freedom of speech issues, even if you could get enough legislators to support the idea.
Because, you know, it might be nice to see what can be done about the decades-long war on the very concept of consensual, fact-based reality
It would indeed. But I don't think that can be done by legislating the content of news reports and editorials; it has to start with education of the young and teaching critical thinking skills. That's the area where we should have stricter laws about what is and isn't acceptable - and that's an area where the first amendment is less applicable, because the courts have agreed that a useful education overrides parents' and communities' wishes to keep their kids enveloped in dogma. (In theory. Practice varies a lot.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Isn't there a conflict between the idea of a "great migration" of the exurban/rural middle class/lower middle class and the high and rising costs of urban life as the children of white flight flood back into cities? Where are these people who can afford a spacious house and two cars in the middle of nowhere supposed to migrate to that's less energy-wasteful and has access to public transport when DINK middle class/upper middle class couples are struggling to afford to buy in the city? What about struggling communities within cities - wouldn't migrating these more rural people increase the displacement and gentrification we're already concerned about?
posted by sallybrown at 1:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 1:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
xyzzy:
I'm not saying that they should move away on their own. I'm suggesting that the government should help. A lot of people should be resettled, gradually, via positive incentivization. I'm not talking Stalin-esque resettlement and "re-education". Offer grants or tax credits for moving away. Whatever it takes. It would cost a lot of taxpayer money now, and save a lot of taxpayer money 50+ years from now.
We keep talking about infrastructure this election. So much of that infrastructure is there to support people who, out of this intoxicating mix of racism and near-religious wastefulness, choose to live in places where the cost vs. returns of infrastructure is embarassingly low. Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement? It is a government subsidy. It's middle-class redneck welfare of a scale and cost as great, if not greater, than any of the programs that these same people likely rail against( i.e. Planned Parenthood).
And when these places are abandoned, as many small midwestern towns will be soon enough, they will leave behind tremendous environmental hazards and damages.
Sallybrown: I didn't make that connection and that is a good point. I'm not advocating for the displacement of communities of colour and further gentrification. I think land-ownership and property need to undergo some reform of their own.
posted by constantinescharity at 1:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying that they should move away on their own. I'm suggesting that the government should help. A lot of people should be resettled, gradually, via positive incentivization. I'm not talking Stalin-esque resettlement and "re-education". Offer grants or tax credits for moving away. Whatever it takes. It would cost a lot of taxpayer money now, and save a lot of taxpayer money 50+ years from now.
We keep talking about infrastructure this election. So much of that infrastructure is there to support people who, out of this intoxicating mix of racism and near-religious wastefulness, choose to live in places where the cost vs. returns of infrastructure is embarassingly low. Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement? It is a government subsidy. It's middle-class redneck welfare of a scale and cost as great, if not greater, than any of the programs that these same people likely rail against( i.e. Planned Parenthood).
And when these places are abandoned, as many small midwestern towns will be soon enough, they will leave behind tremendous environmental hazards and damages.
Sallybrown: I didn't make that connection and that is a good point. I'm not advocating for the displacement of communities of colour and further gentrification. I think land-ownership and property need to undergo some reform of their own.
posted by constantinescharity at 1:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
The row of houses in back of me get into this decoration escalation during the holidays. Now all the houses are spooky scary Halloween themed with ghostly lights and all that. Except for one house. This one house has a Trump Pence sign and a giant flag. Nothing more.
I imagine having a dream where every time I look out that window, that Trump sign has come a little closer.
posted by angrycat at 1:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
I imagine having a dream where every time I look out that window, that Trump sign has come a little closer.
posted by angrycat at 1:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
Aren't the Midwest, South, and Rust Belt the only parts of the US where it's relatively easy to live a middle class lifestyle (single income family, home ownership, etc) on roughly the American median income?
Getting: a) a job that b) pays enough income is the tricky part, especially in places that aren't big cities. I just spent 2 years in a town of 65K that's doing pretty well, and is actually sort of expanding its economic base, but with 18 years of experience in my field I was making under $20/hr and oversaw 8 people who all made under $15 for skilled office work requiring an associate's degree. So, you can imagine how much people are making without even that level of education.
posted by LionIndex at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Getting: a) a job that b) pays enough income is the tricky part, especially in places that aren't big cities. I just spent 2 years in a town of 65K that's doing pretty well, and is actually sort of expanding its economic base, but with 18 years of experience in my field I was making under $20/hr and oversaw 8 people who all made under $15 for skilled office work requiring an associate's degree. So, you can imagine how much people are making without even that level of education.
posted by LionIndex at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.
One of the guys selling bottled water at the Union Square farmers' market during the heat wave sometime this summer or fall was yelling "Ice cold water here, colder than Donald Trump's heart!" as his barker spiel.
posted by oh yeah! at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
One of the guys selling bottled water at the Union Square farmers' market during the heat wave sometime this summer or fall was yelling "Ice cold water here, colder than Donald Trump's heart!" as his barker spiel.
posted by oh yeah! at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
But yeah, housing was ridiculously cheaper than Southern California. We moved to Grand Rapids, where incomes are a bit better, and were able to get a 3BR/2BA house for under 200K based solely on my wife's employment contract, with a salary a bit under 60K.
posted by LionIndex at 1:14 PM on October 23, 2016
posted by LionIndex at 1:14 PM on October 23, 2016
I happened to be in Times Square yesterday, and saw a homeless guy who had a sign that read: UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ONE DOLLAR I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.
Pretty sure that guy will end up richer than Donald Trump.
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Pretty sure that guy will end up richer than Donald Trump.
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
> Does that communication include private conversations between individuals? Does that include public Facebook posts? What about blog posts locked to a limited readership?
I appreciate the wrinkles & challenges you raise. I wish I had time for a more sussed out response. But for now, as I said in my original comment,
posted by perspicio at 1:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I appreciate the wrinkles & challenges you raise. I wish I had time for a more sussed out response. But for now, as I said in my original comment,
Heightened regulations would kick in on a given information source when independent data collection & analysis demonstrates that a benchmark percentage of the public or raw number of citizens is receiving information from an unregulated source.If we're having this conversation on the premise that it might be possible although difficult, that's one thing. It can be approached methodologically in that case. If the goal is to throw up obstacles at every turn to prove it can't be done, then that's not a discussion I care to have. Smacks of Republican "Government can't work, elect us and we'll prove it"-ism.
posted by perspicio at 1:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's not about whether it can be done, it's how vulnerable it is to bad actors. And contrary to the situation with welfare, suppressing political speech can do widespread damage.
posted by Zalzidrax at 1:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 1:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Quick follow-up via mobile. I like your positive ideas about education. I'm also interested in rock solid reasons the idea cannot work. "Sounds really hard" and "what about these six things therefore no way" don't quite do it for me though.
posted by perspicio at 1:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by perspicio at 1:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
sunset in snow country: I cannot believe that men whose grandparents were in the internment camps would think Hillary is "the same" as Trump.
One of the things I've really been startled with is how difficult it is for people to internalize Martin Niemöller's words when a generation has passed from the terror at hand, or the initial targets have changed.
I'm becoming more aware that a lot of people don't believe there's a line. Or they think there is a line, but they're not in it. Or they think there should be a line that they pick. I can recognize it as a line of thinking with assumptions and outcomes, but I really can't understand it.
xyzzy: Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
*hangs head* I assumed that was the name of something involved in it... I mean, I was a child when it was going on, but the idea "contra" was a Spanish word honestly never occurred to me. (Further shamefaced realizations upon looking up details deleted out of embarrassment.)
ErisLordFreedom: Off the top of my head: tie it to the Social Security Number - if you're registered as a dependent on someone's taxes growing up, you're registered to vote when you turn 18.
There are no protections for them because it was meant to just be a tax thing, not used as National ID the way it is now. The SSA has as their best practices that SSIs should not be used as identifiers in any transaction. It's hard to contest things done to them, and they're central to identity theft.
A national ID system should include biometrics, be free, and have contingencies for everyone who is in the country (which SSIs don't have). Linking it through the Post Office (and adding in banking functions of the Post Office which exists in other countries) would revitalize those as well - a change of address could also serve as a change of voters registration with relative ease, centralize the Post Office around mail, identity, and basic services to help meet the needs of the poorest people in the country.
It also should still fall under the Fourth Amendment, where you're not required to produce it unless charge with a crime (which is more than the "crime" of not producing your ID or "resisting arrest" / "suspicious activity"). This is where a lot of the gutting of the fourth amendment stuff comes in. Right now it is legal for cops to arrest someone without naming the crime then charge them with "resisting arrest" which is nonsense. Making asking "why are you arresting me" a basic human right is literally why the Fourth Amendment exists. Fixing the Fourth Amendment is central to Racial Justice, though, so it might take a long while; pushing back against it currently isn't even discussed, much less taken seriously.
constantinescharity: Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement? It is a government subsidy.
1) r~ is a class-based slur
2) One advantage to improving the infrastructure is to decrease costs not only of moving between cities (i.e. high speed rail) but also improving the chances people can make a living outside of cities via remote work. Our current concentration in cities is making things unsustainable and leading to property bubble after bubble; spreading out more can help with that, especially with how huge our country actually is. Other infrastructure investments do the same thing - by making high speed internet universal, one forms the basis of more reliable trade, for example. The Highway system drives commerce, literally. We're losing tons of money because of the issues with our rail and pipe systems, both in the costs of accidents and in the cost of lost time.
3) We're already subsidizing the country from the cities, via both things we call benefits and things we don't. Farm subsidies, corn subsidies, etc... are all currently making money flow from the government to businesses without any advantages for the residents in those areas as they were mechanized out of jobs. We need to fix this, but it's hard and complicated.
4) The argument that benefits are good only when they go to people I approve of is never a good look. Everyone should benefit from living in the US.
5) Clinton has been quietly setting up the pieces to hire a ton of people in the middle of the country to work on infrastructure, and what infrastructure work means is jobs and the development of skills in local populations. This has a dual benefit of bringing hope and money to places without it, and addressing some of the structural pressures around the proliferation of drug use in the middle of the country (despair and poverty often drive drug use).
posted by Deoridhe at 1:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [40 favorites]
One of the things I've really been startled with is how difficult it is for people to internalize Martin Niemöller's words when a generation has passed from the terror at hand, or the initial targets have changed.
I heard this as a child and this is so central to how I view the world; I'm always looking for the easy targets - who are the people who want to subjugate most of us going to go for first. They've already gone for "the illegals" while targeting LatinX people, and "the criminals" while targeting Black people, so their rhetoric has become more complex, but the basic structure of "when people start saying these people should be locked up, you're in line" remains. I'm far back in the line, being white and relatively affluent, but I'm still in this line."First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. "
I'm becoming more aware that a lot of people don't believe there's a line. Or they think there is a line, but they're not in it. Or they think there should be a line that they pick. I can recognize it as a line of thinking with assumptions and outcomes, but I really can't understand it.
xyzzy: Jeez, you'd think that Republicans would know the word "contra." We had this whole hearing with Oliver North that one time.
*hangs head* I assumed that was the name of something involved in it... I mean, I was a child when it was going on, but the idea "contra" was a Spanish word honestly never occurred to me. (Further shamefaced realizations upon looking up details deleted out of embarrassment.)
ErisLordFreedom: Off the top of my head: tie it to the Social Security Number - if you're registered as a dependent on someone's taxes growing up, you're registered to vote when you turn 18.
There are no protections for them because it was meant to just be a tax thing, not used as National ID the way it is now. The SSA has as their best practices that SSIs should not be used as identifiers in any transaction. It's hard to contest things done to them, and they're central to identity theft.
A national ID system should include biometrics, be free, and have contingencies for everyone who is in the country (which SSIs don't have). Linking it through the Post Office (and adding in banking functions of the Post Office which exists in other countries) would revitalize those as well - a change of address could also serve as a change of voters registration with relative ease, centralize the Post Office around mail, identity, and basic services to help meet the needs of the poorest people in the country.
It also should still fall under the Fourth Amendment, where you're not required to produce it unless charge with a crime (which is more than the "crime" of not producing your ID or "resisting arrest" / "suspicious activity"). This is where a lot of the gutting of the fourth amendment stuff comes in. Right now it is legal for cops to arrest someone without naming the crime then charge them with "resisting arrest" which is nonsense. Making asking "why are you arresting me" a basic human right is literally why the Fourth Amendment exists. Fixing the Fourth Amendment is central to Racial Justice, though, so it might take a long while; pushing back against it currently isn't even discussed, much less taken seriously.
constantinescharity: Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement? It is a government subsidy.
1) r~ is a class-based slur
2) One advantage to improving the infrastructure is to decrease costs not only of moving between cities (i.e. high speed rail) but also improving the chances people can make a living outside of cities via remote work. Our current concentration in cities is making things unsustainable and leading to property bubble after bubble; spreading out more can help with that, especially with how huge our country actually is. Other infrastructure investments do the same thing - by making high speed internet universal, one forms the basis of more reliable trade, for example. The Highway system drives commerce, literally. We're losing tons of money because of the issues with our rail and pipe systems, both in the costs of accidents and in the cost of lost time.
3) We're already subsidizing the country from the cities, via both things we call benefits and things we don't. Farm subsidies, corn subsidies, etc... are all currently making money flow from the government to businesses without any advantages for the residents in those areas as they were mechanized out of jobs. We need to fix this, but it's hard and complicated.
4) The argument that benefits are good only when they go to people I approve of is never a good look. Everyone should benefit from living in the US.
5) Clinton has been quietly setting up the pieces to hire a ton of people in the middle of the country to work on infrastructure, and what infrastructure work means is jobs and the development of skills in local populations. This has a dual benefit of bringing hope and money to places without it, and addressing some of the structural pressures around the proliferation of drug use in the middle of the country (despair and poverty often drive drug use).
posted by Deoridhe at 1:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [40 favorites]
Why should the rest of the country pay large sums to maintain roads and electrical lines to places that have no reason to exist, other than out of a sense of entitlement?I remember trekking into the Rockies to help set up internet points of presence for my company for communities that still didn't have plain old telephone service in the mid-90s. The government wasn't paying us; the residents were. Locally our rather remote Indian Reservation uses the output from its casino to subsidize infrastructure for the rest of the area in addition to its own. I also consulted for a millionaire who lived in the middle of nowhere who had to personally pay the county for road, sewage, and electricity expansion to his remote home. But my experiences are only anecdotal--I would welcome hard data that US infrastructure expenditure is an entitlement to privileged ruralites.
posted by xyzzy at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
Our current concentration in cities is making things unsustainable and leading to property bubble after bubble; spreading out more can help with that, especially with how huge our country actually is.
I'd clarify that we're trying to concentrate too much in too few cities rather than increasing transportation and housing density in other cities to achieve the same sustainability benefits that those few cities offer.
posted by LionIndex at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'd clarify that we're trying to concentrate too much in too few cities rather than increasing transportation and housing density in other cities to achieve the same sustainability benefits that those few cities offer.
posted by LionIndex at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
the idea "contra" was a Spanish word honestly never occurred to me
It's Latin, and thus appears in many, many languages. Including English.
posted by effbot at 1:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's Latin, and thus appears in many, many languages. Including English.
posted by effbot at 1:43 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Aren't the Midwest, South, and Rust Belt the only parts of the US where it's relatively easy to live a middle class lifestyle (single income family, home ownership, etc) on roughly the American median income?
Ish. If you go out into the burbs or live in a small town, then you need a car. Probably two cars. You'll probably need to commute or work remotely. Childcare remains an issue. There are a lot of pleasant and cheapish places to live that are also very much BYOJ.
I'm suggesting that the government should help. A lot of people should be resettled, gradually, via positive incentivization.
There were New Deal plans to reduce the population of the Great Plains though planned resettlement and prevent another Dust Bowl. Didn't go down well at all. The places you're talking about are sometimes ones with history going back multiple generations. The TVA's dammed reservoirs flooded out entire towns: there's been a long kerfuffle in Swain County, NC about the Road to Nowhere, meant to provide access for the displaced to their family cemeteries.
Dealing with contraction, major infrastructure changes or long-term economic shifts is a Hard Problem, whether it's in a big city like Detroit or small cities built around core industries or small rural towns: all of that pushes against the grand American narrative of turning landless immigrants into landowning (and land-improving) citizens.
The potential decay of the suburbs and especially exurbs will add to that, as residents age and become less independent. I think about the Sun Belt and huge Florida retirement communities like The Villages, which operate under strict HOA-style regulations, and it's not the pleasantest idea of voluntary resettlement.
So, resettlement... to where and to what? I don't think it's massively helpful to call it by the terms you're using.
posted by holgate at 1:45 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ish. If you go out into the burbs or live in a small town, then you need a car. Probably two cars. You'll probably need to commute or work remotely. Childcare remains an issue. There are a lot of pleasant and cheapish places to live that are also very much BYOJ.
I'm suggesting that the government should help. A lot of people should be resettled, gradually, via positive incentivization.
There were New Deal plans to reduce the population of the Great Plains though planned resettlement and prevent another Dust Bowl. Didn't go down well at all. The places you're talking about are sometimes ones with history going back multiple generations. The TVA's dammed reservoirs flooded out entire towns: there's been a long kerfuffle in Swain County, NC about the Road to Nowhere, meant to provide access for the displaced to their family cemeteries.
Dealing with contraction, major infrastructure changes or long-term economic shifts is a Hard Problem, whether it's in a big city like Detroit or small cities built around core industries or small rural towns: all of that pushes against the grand American narrative of turning landless immigrants into landowning (and land-improving) citizens.
The potential decay of the suburbs and especially exurbs will add to that, as residents age and become less independent. I think about the Sun Belt and huge Florida retirement communities like The Villages, which operate under strict HOA-style regulations, and it's not the pleasantest idea of voluntary resettlement.
So, resettlement... to where and to what? I don't think it's massively helpful to call it by the terms you're using.
posted by holgate at 1:45 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
If we're having this conversation on the premise that it might be possible although difficult, that's one thing. It can be approached methodologically in that case.
I'm assuming it might be possible to put some kind of framework on political speech to require more fact-checking - maybe marking the difference between "we checked the details" and "this is an editorial," with different standards for paid and unpaid speech: if you're talking on your own dime, say whatever you like, within legal bounds; if you're being paid to say something, declare up front what biases could be influencing it - just like reviewers have to say if they received a product for free.
I don't think there's any way to actually require more facts, less drama-incitement in political news without gutting the first amendment. We have no foundation for deciding what counts as "news," and while 50 years ago, we might've decided what a "news outlet" is, once the internet is part of that equation it's a ridiculous mess.
As egregious as Trump's whole campaign is, I don't want us to enact laws against lying in public; I would expect those to be used to support established privilege more than challenge it. And that's a lot of the problem with the current campaign: Trump says something false and outrageous, he gets called on it, and says "that's what I believe" or "that's what I plan to do" or, in the case of offensive things, "that's not what I really meant." While there's been some false-equiv reporting, the media orgs are not the reason he's got 20-40% of the country voting for him, and fixing news requirements won't change their minds - that block of voters will just go back to barely-visible, reached only with dog whistles.
I think we could work toward laws that require different metadata: corporate ownership of an outlet might need to be declared; names of board members for public orgs and various bits of info about private ones; fact-check details about the article available on demand. (Not names of informers, but info about whether there actually are informers, whether the piece was investigated or put together from other news sources, etc.)
And if that were combined with better education requirements, such that everyone with an 8th grade education had some basic critical thinking skills and the ability to spot a handful of logical fallacies, we'd have much more policy-based, less emotion-driven political campaigns.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm assuming it might be possible to put some kind of framework on political speech to require more fact-checking - maybe marking the difference between "we checked the details" and "this is an editorial," with different standards for paid and unpaid speech: if you're talking on your own dime, say whatever you like, within legal bounds; if you're being paid to say something, declare up front what biases could be influencing it - just like reviewers have to say if they received a product for free.
I don't think there's any way to actually require more facts, less drama-incitement in political news without gutting the first amendment. We have no foundation for deciding what counts as "news," and while 50 years ago, we might've decided what a "news outlet" is, once the internet is part of that equation it's a ridiculous mess.
As egregious as Trump's whole campaign is, I don't want us to enact laws against lying in public; I would expect those to be used to support established privilege more than challenge it. And that's a lot of the problem with the current campaign: Trump says something false and outrageous, he gets called on it, and says "that's what I believe" or "that's what I plan to do" or, in the case of offensive things, "that's not what I really meant." While there's been some false-equiv reporting, the media orgs are not the reason he's got 20-40% of the country voting for him, and fixing news requirements won't change their minds - that block of voters will just go back to barely-visible, reached only with dog whistles.
I think we could work toward laws that require different metadata: corporate ownership of an outlet might need to be declared; names of board members for public orgs and various bits of info about private ones; fact-check details about the article available on demand. (Not names of informers, but info about whether there actually are informers, whether the piece was investigated or put together from other news sources, etc.)
And if that were combined with better education requirements, such that everyone with an 8th grade education had some basic critical thinking skills and the ability to spot a handful of logical fallacies, we'd have much more policy-based, less emotion-driven political campaigns.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
In 1947 there was a movie with Jimmy Stewart and Jane Wyman (at that time the wife of Ronald Reagan) called Magic Town. Hillary was born the same month as when it came out. This is a partial summary of the plot from IMDB:
Rip Smith's opinion-poll business is a failure...until he discovers that the small town of Grandview is statistically identical to the entire country. He and his assistants go there to run polls cheaply and easily, in total secrecy (it would be fatal to let the townsfolk get self-conscious).
The townspeople do discover the importance of their opinions and in one of the next surveys, they declare a woman can become president. Jimmy Stewart cites this as proof that the town's opinions are now worthless.
Otherwise, kind of a fun, hokey old movie.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Rip Smith's opinion-poll business is a failure...until he discovers that the small town of Grandview is statistically identical to the entire country. He and his assistants go there to run polls cheaply and easily, in total secrecy (it would be fatal to let the townsfolk get self-conscious).
The townspeople do discover the importance of their opinions and in one of the next surveys, they declare a woman can become president. Jimmy Stewart cites this as proof that the town's opinions are now worthless.
Otherwise, kind of a fun, hokey old movie.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Curt Schilling's weirdo interview with Jake Tapper and his pathetic Trump rally have already paid off: Curt Schilling Joins Breitbart. He'll have a daily hourlong call-in political show after being kicked off ESPN for sharing a transphobic meme on Facebook.
Well I just found out what I'm doing in 2018. Fighting this asshole tooth and nail so that he bombs in MA so hard he'll never want to be seen in politics again.
posted by Talez at 1:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
Well I just found out what I'm doing in 2018. Fighting this asshole tooth and nail so that he bombs in MA so hard he'll never want to be seen in politics again.
posted by Talez at 1:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
Curt Schilling couldn't get too far in normal MA politics, imho. Read into his history of bilking Rhode Island to make a failed video game. That's rich, publically available oppo that I think even Republican donors would shy away from. Look how long it took Trump to get traditional donor support.
posted by xyzzy at 2:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 2:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
> I've mentioned it before but this is a popular shirt in my Native American activist friends' circles these days.
Ha, it should probably say "Colonialists" though
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 2:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ha, it should probably say "Colonialists" though
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 2:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was working on a long comment about the future of The Deplorables Movement and how they'll have to find as a leader another celebrity with a lack of political experience. Curt Schilling is obvious the leading candidate there.
But then, maybe Terry "My Stage Name Is Stolen From Marvel Comics" Bollea might use some of his lawsuit winnings to build a campaign. (And there are always more Fake Wrestler Personalities in the pipeline)
One of the "Quiet" Hollywood Republicans who isn't getting work right now might decide this is his dream role. I noticed James Woods is currently being a public asshole with Lisa Bloom, one of the lawyers working with Trump's accusers (It's a totally separate case, but this could be his 'Birther' in-road)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
But then, maybe Terry "My Stage Name Is Stolen From Marvel Comics" Bollea might use some of his lawsuit winnings to build a campaign. (And there are always more Fake Wrestler Personalities in the pipeline)
One of the "Quiet" Hollywood Republicans who isn't getting work right now might decide this is his dream role. I noticed James Woods is currently being a public asshole with Lisa Bloom, one of the lawyers working with Trump's accusers (It's a totally separate case, but this could be his 'Birther' in-road)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I voted early in Durham today! The early voting lines here have been very long. I waited in line for over an hour, and early voting has been open for a few days and will remain open until November 5.
I moved to North Carolina less than two months ago, and I'll say that the Democrat/liberal groups here have really worked to educate people on who to vote for all down the ballot if you're a left-leaning person. There were about 30 different offices to vote for, along with four referenda, so I really appreciated that.
posted by bananana at 2:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
I moved to North Carolina less than two months ago, and I'll say that the Democrat/liberal groups here have really worked to educate people on who to vote for all down the ballot if you're a left-leaning person. There were about 30 different offices to vote for, along with four referenda, so I really appreciated that.
posted by bananana at 2:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
Hillary Clinton's team put together a list of 140 terrible things Trump has said about women
Number 30: On a comedian: “[She’s] disgusting, I mean, both inside and out. You take a look at her, she’s a slob. She talks like a—like a truck driver. She doesn’t have her facts. She’ll say anything that comes to her mind.”
Replace she with he and Trump provides an honest description of himself.
posted by juiceCake at 2:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Number 30: On a comedian: “[She’s] disgusting, I mean, both inside and out. You take a look at her, she’s a slob. She talks like a—like a truck driver. She doesn’t have her facts. She’ll say anything that comes to her mind.”
Replace she with he and Trump provides an honest description of himself.
posted by juiceCake at 2:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I moved to North Carolina less than two months ago, and I'll say that the Democrat/liberal groups here have really worked to educate people on who to vote for all down the ballot if you're a left-leaning person.
Do you know of any good guides to the NC nonpartisan judge candidates?
posted by thelonius at 2:18 PM on October 23, 2016
Do you know of any good guides to the NC nonpartisan judge candidates?
posted by thelonius at 2:18 PM on October 23, 2016
I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.
posted by Ber at 2:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 2:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Very fun Pantsuit Flashmob in NC this morning
posted by colt45 at 2:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by colt45 at 2:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Doeridhe:
1) You're right. I was maybe speaking with a bit of frustration. Truth be told, I don't think a lot of people out there in the boonies are actually all that poor. While poverty is a big factor in some places, in others, as was pointed out elsewhere, these people live comfortably, wage-wise. Not rich, but not poor. It's also different when their cost of living can be much lower. I think some of the anger in rural areas is actually one of having their frivolous, relatively-privileged lifestyle threatened, not one of destitution. That and racism. I'm convinced both from personal experience and second-hand experience that it is a primary factor.
2) Living in cities is mostly unsustainable due to the way property is controlled. Public housing is one answer. Reforming the way landholding works, and introducing rent controls can help. Maybe we need to recognise that living space, at least in its basest form as a small apartment, is a utility. These are human and policy issues not material ones. Not efficiency ones. Huge problems that, as a young person, maybe I have naively strong opinions about. Nonetheless I think there are easier solutions in that case.
ex: Rent control, or so I saw on another MeFi thread, is actually one of the things that makes Tokyo livable on a median wage.
Living in the boonies is unsustainable on monetary, material and energy grounds. It simply costs more, in absolute terms, to support communities out there. It is, in essence, an overvaluation of their lives vs. people in the cities. While welfare and other programs are undermined, we are expected to blow cash on those folks so that they can live in profligate defiance of heterogenous society? We are supposed to subsidize holding land for no reason other than to have lots of tree-cleared, useless fields to gloat over? I'm supposed to let my tax dollars pay for what are sometimes essentially refuges of segregation, where a significant factor is their not wanting to live near any city involves the invocation of racist stereotypes? The only reason people live out there in such numbers in the first place is because of a unique, one-time (though admittedly long-winded) boom in the local economies.
That land could be left to perform one of the simplest methods of carbon capture available - reforestation/return of grasslands. Just because there is lots of land out there doesn't mean that we should waste it. That is exactly what I am getting at in being critical of the kind of land usage one sees in these communities. They apply a philosophy of land misuse and arbitrary appropriation.
Why should we pave more of it over, and continue to emphasize inefficient methods of transportation with serious weaknesses, like cars? Cars require so much infrastructure, and then subsequent support. Getting between major cities could be, for the most part, eventually replaced by high capacity, high speed rail or other methods. The money that would otherwise be going to projects like that could be better spent on improving city infrastructure. If transport in major cities is shit right now, why should we prioritize handfuls of people over the millions in need? A city with fewer cars, more light rail/buses, and huge parks/public spaces (on the scale of dozens of acres) sounds much more amicably quiet and livable to me.
And projects to build huge infrastructure like that will set us up for the same problem in another few decades. We'll feel reluctant to maintain these structures, and then need to replace them again at high cost.
Or we'll be blowing countless millions on upkeep for strings of dwindling towns with populations that number under five thousand.
What you're talking about is ditch-digging to sustain these communities. The government shouldn't be paying for work on their own communities. If they want these roads, they should pay themselves with that money they don't have. I don't want to pay the wages of recalcitrant borderline white separatists/nationalists.
And for those that remain, maybe sections of reclaimed areas could be devoted to managed forestry. That way those few that do really love rural areas might be able to stay.
3) I agree, that's an issue. Corn subsidies are terrible and do rob the locals of that money. That being said, agricultural jobs aren't going to reappear in the absence of those subsidies. Even in the scenario of a farming boom, those jobs would continue to be mechanized. De-mechanizing those jobs would increase costs and cause food supply issues.
A lot of farmland in the Midwest is going to dry up in the next 50-80 years anyways, thanks to our over-use of fossil water. We've already set so many of these areas on track to be unlivable in the coming century, so why hand them an IV of cash and infrastructure?
4) This is not what I am saying. Yes, I don't like the habits and ideologies of folks in these places. I see them as sad, and in need of outreach. I do not want to punish them. Rather, I want to better integrate them into our society by bringing them physically closer while reducing the drain that they place on our nation's coffers. To riff on Hillary's slogan, I think we really are stronger together.
Beyond that, I want to restate that they are an environmental disaster waiting to happen. Many small towns and cities will clear out, and all that will be left behind is contaminated ground and water; rows of decaying structures too polluted to be reclaimed by nature alone. Cleaning that up will take a tremendous cost. If we dismantle these places now, it will save us from having the middle of the country look like the settings of post-apocalyptic fiction.
posted by constantinescharity at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
1) You're right. I was maybe speaking with a bit of frustration. Truth be told, I don't think a lot of people out there in the boonies are actually all that poor. While poverty is a big factor in some places, in others, as was pointed out elsewhere, these people live comfortably, wage-wise. Not rich, but not poor. It's also different when their cost of living can be much lower. I think some of the anger in rural areas is actually one of having their frivolous, relatively-privileged lifestyle threatened, not one of destitution. That and racism. I'm convinced both from personal experience and second-hand experience that it is a primary factor.
2) Living in cities is mostly unsustainable due to the way property is controlled. Public housing is one answer. Reforming the way landholding works, and introducing rent controls can help. Maybe we need to recognise that living space, at least in its basest form as a small apartment, is a utility. These are human and policy issues not material ones. Not efficiency ones. Huge problems that, as a young person, maybe I have naively strong opinions about. Nonetheless I think there are easier solutions in that case.
ex: Rent control, or so I saw on another MeFi thread, is actually one of the things that makes Tokyo livable on a median wage.
Living in the boonies is unsustainable on monetary, material and energy grounds. It simply costs more, in absolute terms, to support communities out there. It is, in essence, an overvaluation of their lives vs. people in the cities. While welfare and other programs are undermined, we are expected to blow cash on those folks so that they can live in profligate defiance of heterogenous society? We are supposed to subsidize holding land for no reason other than to have lots of tree-cleared, useless fields to gloat over? I'm supposed to let my tax dollars pay for what are sometimes essentially refuges of segregation, where a significant factor is their not wanting to live near any city involves the invocation of racist stereotypes? The only reason people live out there in such numbers in the first place is because of a unique, one-time (though admittedly long-winded) boom in the local economies.
That land could be left to perform one of the simplest methods of carbon capture available - reforestation/return of grasslands. Just because there is lots of land out there doesn't mean that we should waste it. That is exactly what I am getting at in being critical of the kind of land usage one sees in these communities. They apply a philosophy of land misuse and arbitrary appropriation.
Why should we pave more of it over, and continue to emphasize inefficient methods of transportation with serious weaknesses, like cars? Cars require so much infrastructure, and then subsequent support. Getting between major cities could be, for the most part, eventually replaced by high capacity, high speed rail or other methods. The money that would otherwise be going to projects like that could be better spent on improving city infrastructure. If transport in major cities is shit right now, why should we prioritize handfuls of people over the millions in need? A city with fewer cars, more light rail/buses, and huge parks/public spaces (on the scale of dozens of acres) sounds much more amicably quiet and livable to me.
And projects to build huge infrastructure like that will set us up for the same problem in another few decades. We'll feel reluctant to maintain these structures, and then need to replace them again at high cost.
Or we'll be blowing countless millions on upkeep for strings of dwindling towns with populations that number under five thousand.
What you're talking about is ditch-digging to sustain these communities. The government shouldn't be paying for work on their own communities. If they want these roads, they should pay themselves with that money they don't have. I don't want to pay the wages of recalcitrant borderline white separatists/nationalists.
And for those that remain, maybe sections of reclaimed areas could be devoted to managed forestry. That way those few that do really love rural areas might be able to stay.
3) I agree, that's an issue. Corn subsidies are terrible and do rob the locals of that money. That being said, agricultural jobs aren't going to reappear in the absence of those subsidies. Even in the scenario of a farming boom, those jobs would continue to be mechanized. De-mechanizing those jobs would increase costs and cause food supply issues.
A lot of farmland in the Midwest is going to dry up in the next 50-80 years anyways, thanks to our over-use of fossil water. We've already set so many of these areas on track to be unlivable in the coming century, so why hand them an IV of cash and infrastructure?
4) This is not what I am saying. Yes, I don't like the habits and ideologies of folks in these places. I see them as sad, and in need of outreach. I do not want to punish them. Rather, I want to better integrate them into our society by bringing them physically closer while reducing the drain that they place on our nation's coffers. To riff on Hillary's slogan, I think we really are stronger together.
Beyond that, I want to restate that they are an environmental disaster waiting to happen. Many small towns and cities will clear out, and all that will be left behind is contaminated ground and water; rows of decaying structures too polluted to be reclaimed by nature alone. Cleaning that up will take a tremendous cost. If we dismantle these places now, it will save us from having the middle of the country look like the settings of post-apocalyptic fiction.
posted by constantinescharity at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Do you know of any good guides to the NC nonpartisan judge candidates?
Indy Week's endorsements were the most thoroughly explained I saw.
The Durham Democratic Women posted this blue card, which basically agrees with Indy Week aside from not endorsing a district court judge for district 14 because both candidates are Democrats.
posted by bananana at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Indy Week's endorsements were the most thoroughly explained I saw.
The Durham Democratic Women posted this blue card, which basically agrees with Indy Week aside from not endorsing a district court judge for district 14 because both candidates are Democrats.
posted by bananana at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma.
Deplorables don't trust the party, which is why they went for Trump in the first place. To the extent they trust anyone inside the party (unlikely), and to the extent they remain a cohesive bloc in four years (who knows), they won't trust anyone who worked against Trump.
Meanwhile, the GOP, to the extent it exists in national form in 4 years, won't trust anyone who worked for Trump, and will be at the ready for outsiders.
These two groups will continue to have clashing motivations. They're not going to be able to back the same person, I don't think.
posted by sallybrown at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Deplorables don't trust the party, which is why they went for Trump in the first place. To the extent they trust anyone inside the party (unlikely), and to the extent they remain a cohesive bloc in four years (who knows), they won't trust anyone who worked against Trump.
Meanwhile, the GOP, to the extent it exists in national form in 4 years, won't trust anyone who worked for Trump, and will be at the ready for outsiders.
These two groups will continue to have clashing motivations. They're not going to be able to back the same person, I don't think.
posted by sallybrown at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.
I wouldn't worry too hard about this.
1. The next guy will have demographics even further against him.
2. You can't really have a deplorable with no skeletons. A big part of Trump's appeal to his followers is that he speaks his mind, all the time. You don't get that attitude together with a lifetime of good behavior. Essentially, you'd have to lack all self-control and have it at the same time.
3. In four years, they're trying to unseat an incumbent. In eight years, they don't get to benefit from Clinton derangement syndrome.
posted by Mitrovarr at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
I wouldn't worry too hard about this.
1. The next guy will have demographics even further against him.
2. You can't really have a deplorable with no skeletons. A big part of Trump's appeal to his followers is that he speaks his mind, all the time. You don't get that attitude together with a lifetime of good behavior. Essentially, you'd have to lack all self-control and have it at the same time.
3. In four years, they're trying to unseat an incumbent. In eight years, they don't get to benefit from Clinton derangement syndrome.
posted by Mitrovarr at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma.
I totally agree with you but reading it was chilling. I really hope I don't end up in the 2020 election thread feeling the "You thought you knew Hitler 2.0 in 2016 but you didn't even know..."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I totally agree with you but reading it was chilling. I really hope I don't end up in the 2020 election thread feeling the "You thought you knew Hitler 2.0 in 2016 but you didn't even know..."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Had my GOTV canvassing "date" this morning. It was pretty fun: we went to an area of town with a lot of Middle Eastern immigrants, including a number of former refugees who are now citizens, so it was very multicultural. He was surprised and intrigued, since he had no idea such neighborhoods even existed in Phoenix, although he was born and raised here.
Volunteering is educational!
Several people had already mailed in their ballots, so I made sure they knew how to check the status. We handed out information on county-level candidates and early voting locations and ended up walking about four miles, which isn't much in my experience (a side effect of doing only apartment complexes, I guess). He didn't hold it against me when I refused to allow him to pretend we were not just gathering and sharing voting information, but also investigating a murder, "to up the stakes."
He's coming along again next weekend, so I guess our canvassing operation was an overall success.
posted by Superplin at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [49 favorites]
Volunteering is educational!
Several people had already mailed in their ballots, so I made sure they knew how to check the status. We handed out information on county-level candidates and early voting locations and ended up walking about four miles, which isn't much in my experience (a side effect of doing only apartment complexes, I guess). He didn't hold it against me when I refused to allow him to pretend we were not just gathering and sharing voting information, but also investigating a murder, "to up the stakes."
He's coming along again next weekend, so I guess our canvassing operation was an overall success.
posted by Superplin at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [49 favorites]
In eight years, they don't get to benefit from Clinton derangement syndrome.
It's been a long, long time since 1992, and the end of our long national nightmare of CDS is in sight... I worry about where all the free-form rage will end up however, but that's a worry for another day.
posted by mikelieman at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's been a long, long time since 1992, and the end of our long national nightmare of CDS is in sight... I worry about where all the free-form rage will end up however, but that's a worry for another day.
posted by mikelieman at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I do think some of misogynistic foundations of people disliking her both conscious and most importantly unconscious will dissipate over Clinton's time as President.
America loves women like Hillary Clinton–as long as they’re not asking for a promotion
Public opinion of Clinton has followed a fixed pattern throughout her career. Her public approval plummets whenever she applies for a new position. Then it soars when she gets the job. The wild difference between the way we talk about Clinton when she campaigns and the way we talk about her when she’s in office can’t be explained as ordinary political mud-slinging. Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power.posted by kirkaracha at 2:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
Accepting for the moment that Trump's appeal to a certain chunk of humanity can be accurately described as charisma, was there anyone running for office under the Republican banner this year who had either actual charisma or Trumpian charisma?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
constantinescharity
Nebraska (not boonie) resident here. Let me know before you send the bulldozers in so I can get my Clinton-voting tax-paying liberal Democrat family out of your way. Maybe I'll even warn some of my conservative neighbors who are in fact all real people, not NPCs in whatever world designing video game you think this is.
(Midwesterner for life.)
posted by that's how you get ants at 2:44 PM on October 23, 2016 [91 favorites]
Nebraska (not boonie) resident here. Let me know before you send the bulldozers in so I can get my Clinton-voting tax-paying liberal Democrat family out of your way. Maybe I'll even warn some of my conservative neighbors who are in fact all real people, not NPCs in whatever world designing video game you think this is.
(Midwesterner for life.)
posted by that's how you get ants at 2:44 PM on October 23, 2016 [91 favorites]
Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power.
That may be the most succinct I've ever heard that put. Just mentioned it to the wife, who said, "hmpf. Maybe we should stop asking, then."
posted by Mooski at 2:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
That may be the most succinct I've ever heard that put. Just mentioned it to the wife, who said, "hmpf. Maybe we should stop asking, then."
posted by Mooski at 2:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
I got my call from a phonebanker today...I feel kind of bad because I could tell she was nervous and I totally threw her off her script.
"Hi, I'm calling from Hillary for America and"
"Oh cool, hi!"
"I'm call...um hi. I'm calling [etc about upcoming voting date, hope we can count on your support, etc.]"
"I've already voted by mail and you guys got my vote!"
"That's great! Thank you for your support, have a nice day"
"Thank you for volunteering!"
"Good b...oh thank you um thanks. Good bye."
posted by phunniemee at 2:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [46 favorites]
"Hi, I'm calling from Hillary for America and"
"Oh cool, hi!"
"I'm call...um hi. I'm calling [etc about upcoming voting date, hope we can count on your support, etc.]"
"I've already voted by mail and you guys got my vote!"
"That's great! Thank you for your support, have a nice day"
"Thank you for volunteering!"
"Good b...oh thank you um thanks. Good bye."
posted by phunniemee at 2:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [46 favorites]
I'm thinking that the next leader of The Deplorables is going to be someone from inside politics with more savvy than Trump and far less skeletons. Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.
Tom "Terriying Apparition" Cotton
posted by schadenfrau at 2:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Tom "Terriying Apparition" Cotton
posted by schadenfrau at 2:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I really hope I don't end up in the 2020 election thread feeling the "You thought you knew Hitler 2.0 in 2016 but you didn't even know..."
You will. Peak Wingnut, from those heady days of October 2008, is a nice reminder this hope will not come to pass anytime soon.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:54 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
You will. Peak Wingnut, from those heady days of October 2008, is a nice reminder this hope will not come to pass anytime soon.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:54 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nebraska (not boonie) resident here. Let me know before you send the bulldozers in so I can get my Clinton-voting tax-paying liberal Democrat family out of your way. Maybe I'll even warn some of my conservative neighbors who are in fact all real people, not NPCs in whatever world designing video game you think this is.
(Midwesterner for life.)
Thank you. Your snark saved my head from exploding after reading that.
Hey, constantinescharity, maybe think about spending some time in the "boonies" before determining we are all out here " liv(ing) in profligate defiance of heterogenous society?"
posted by Preserver at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [54 favorites]
(Midwesterner for life.)
Thank you. Your snark saved my head from exploding after reading that.
Hey, constantinescharity, maybe think about spending some time in the "boonies" before determining we are all out here " liv(ing) in profligate defiance of heterogenous society?"
posted by Preserver at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [54 favorites]
Truth be told, I don't think a lot of people out there in the boonies are actually all that poor.Statistically speaking, rural poverty outpaces national poverty.
posted by xyzzy at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Trump in Naples, FL just now:
posted by XMLicious at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
This Podesta is a nasty guy. I wouldn't want someone talking like me... [realizes his slip] ...about me, behind my back.This guy is such a walking psychological case study.
posted by XMLicious at 2:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
So many folks out there in the Midwest and similar areas are pro-Trump because living where they live, a middle-class life is increasingly unsustainable. Maybe they shouldn't be living there anymore. Maybe they should be questioning their ideal lifestyles. If you want to live in a rural area, or in low-density towns and suburbs where there is only one primary industry, and the maintenance of all your land, housing and belongings is expensive, then maybe that is the real problem.I mean, I actually moved to the non-big-city Midwest for purely economic reasons, and part of the reason that I'm staying here is that I'm not at all convinced that I could earn enough to live on if I moved back to a big city. The other part is that I like it here. There are some pretty awesome things about living here.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:01 PM on October 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
Speaking of how far the Republican Party has fallen, here's a debate on illegal immigration between Trump, Reagan, and George H.W Bush.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by honestcoyote at 3:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
that's how you get ants:
I said that I wanted it to be a gradual process, through positive incentives. Bribe people, essentially. It would take several decades, I imagine. You'd have to provide a hell of a sweet deal, too. Really, it is the desire to streamline and ease a process that will take place naturally.
If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition. If they don't, then that's okay. I did not and would never suggest force. Without government capitulating into giving them ridiculous ditch-digging jobs, the population won't rebound.
Dismantling homes and other edifices as folks leave prevents contamination of the ground. The alternative is letting things rot and leach all sorts of lovely things into the soil. Then the government takes the land and bars agribusiness from eating it up. Finally, maybe 150 years from now, it can be a national park. Or huge swaths of connected parkland that snake across the country, sequestering carbon and providing beautiful places for anyone and everyone to visit. True wilderness.
posted by constantinescharity at 3:04 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I said that I wanted it to be a gradual process, through positive incentives. Bribe people, essentially. It would take several decades, I imagine. You'd have to provide a hell of a sweet deal, too. Really, it is the desire to streamline and ease a process that will take place naturally.
If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition. If they don't, then that's okay. I did not and would never suggest force. Without government capitulating into giving them ridiculous ditch-digging jobs, the population won't rebound.
Dismantling homes and other edifices as folks leave prevents contamination of the ground. The alternative is letting things rot and leach all sorts of lovely things into the soil. Then the government takes the land and bars agribusiness from eating it up. Finally, maybe 150 years from now, it can be a national park. Or huge swaths of connected parkland that snake across the country, sequestering carbon and providing beautiful places for anyone and everyone to visit. True wilderness.
posted by constantinescharity at 3:04 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Picture a Mike Pence with more smarts and charisma. That's what we're going to have to watch for on the horizon.
Seriously, it's gonna be Rubio.
I'm not sure how they get around the racism/anti-immigrant angle, but my nightmare is that Rubio is taking notes on what worked about the Trump campaign, and that he's going to add all that to his telegenic and competent exterior to create a true fascist who actually has a chance of winning an election.
All the more reason to unseat him now.
posted by Sara C. at 3:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Seriously, it's gonna be Rubio.
I'm not sure how they get around the racism/anti-immigrant angle, but my nightmare is that Rubio is taking notes on what worked about the Trump campaign, and that he's going to add all that to his telegenic and competent exterior to create a true fascist who actually has a chance of winning an election.
All the more reason to unseat him now.
posted by Sara C. at 3:05 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Peggy Noonan had an op-ed in the WSJ yesterday (may be pay walled) considering a sane Donald Trump. I found her rosey view of his support interesting.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mr. Trump’s great historical role was to reveal to the Republican Party what half of its own base really thinks about the big issues. The party’s leaders didn’t know! They were shocked, so much that they indulged in sheer denial and made believe it wasn’t happening.Note the 'invite the world' that is slipped in there out of nowhere. That's how you do racism, but it's not going to fire up the crowd.
The party’s leaders accept more or less open borders and like big trade deals. Half the base does not! It is longtime GOP doctrine to cut entitlement spending. Half the base doesn’t want to, not right now! Republican leaders have what might be called assertive foreign-policy impulses. When Mr. Trump insulted George W. Bush and nation-building and said he’d opposed the Iraq invasion, the crowds, taking him at his word, cheered. He was, as they say, declaring that he didn’t want to invade the world and invite the world. Not only did half the base cheer him, at least half the remaining half joined in when the primaries ended.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess I don't know enough about voter rights legislation but I thought this kind of stuff was illegal.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:07 PM on October 23, 2016
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:07 PM on October 23, 2016
LIVE Stream: Hillary Clinton Rally in Charlotte with Mothers of the Movement, NC (10/23/2016)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
My family has lived in the same place since we moved here from wales more than three hundred years ago.
You think they're going to move?
posted by winna at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [23 favorites]
You think they're going to move?
posted by winna at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [23 favorites]
constantinescharity
If your job involves sitting in a chair in front of a computer, it doesn't actually matter in what part of the country you live.
posted by teirnon at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
If your job involves sitting in a chair in front of a computer, it doesn't actually matter in what part of the country you live.
posted by teirnon at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
constantinescharity
I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the part where all the food and energy production for this cities-and-forests future is coming from. Not to mention the very real ties to land that people have out there. It's not all just suburban strip malls or whatever. (*waves* Hi, Midwestern-ex-pat here. I grew up in a city where cornfields were at the end of the block and ten miles out was farm country. The problems back there are way more complicated than this and honestly, talk like this only exacerbates the rural-urban divide that's really common.)
The infrastructure that's currently crumbling out there was built for a reason. Hell, I'd love to see how we'd just do transport and freight across the country, without the settled rural areas to actually support that.
posted by ultranos at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the part where all the food and energy production for this cities-and-forests future is coming from. Not to mention the very real ties to land that people have out there. It's not all just suburban strip malls or whatever. (*waves* Hi, Midwestern-ex-pat here. I grew up in a city where cornfields were at the end of the block and ten miles out was farm country. The problems back there are way more complicated than this and honestly, talk like this only exacerbates the rural-urban divide that's really common.)
The infrastructure that's currently crumbling out there was built for a reason. Hell, I'd love to see how we'd just do transport and freight across the country, without the settled rural areas to actually support that.
posted by ultranos at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
Trump, or, as a dear friend calls him, The Human Colostomy Bag, is an MLM scamster at heart.
Too right, and even more true if you leave out "at heart" - he just is. I was unemployed/underemployed for over a year during our lovely Great Recession, going to regular career fairs and workshops to brush up on networking skills and learn how to compete for the quickly dwindling pool of available jobs. Like you do.
One of the meetings I went to pretty much every week was held at a church in an affluent suburb. They had good guest speakers and free baked goods to take home, so why not? While there I had the misfortune to be pitched by someone trying to climb the money ladder at ACN (I'll let Wikipedia fill you in). While I had serious misgivings, he kept insisting it wasn't a pyramid scheme and that I could learn more at a Saturday workshop. I told him I'd think about it.
Saturday rolled around, and hey, I wasn't doing anything else. I drove downtown to the meeting, which was in a conference room in some nondescript under-rented (hey, Great Recession) office building. The whole room just dripped with grease and snake oil. The main speaker was a preacher who had seen the light about ACN, had joined, and now was making lots of money. (In my head: "nice new god you've got there, buddy! How's the old one feel about that?") Then we watched a video that made clear that the product we were selling was secondary in importance to getting people under your wing so you could rack up the sweet sweet residuals. (As an aside: the thought of inviting friends over to my house for "no reason in particular" and then springing a sales pitch on them makes me a bit queasy.)
After the video came the punchline: the top salesmakers in each region got to go to ACN's annual conference, and this year the keynote speaker was Donald Trump! Isn't that EXCITING? The man himself! The adoration was intense.
It wasn't the most fun I've ever had on a Saturday morning, but I sure learned a lot.
Finally: Some light reading. [WSJ]
posted by pianoblack at 3:15 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Too right, and even more true if you leave out "at heart" - he just is. I was unemployed/underemployed for over a year during our lovely Great Recession, going to regular career fairs and workshops to brush up on networking skills and learn how to compete for the quickly dwindling pool of available jobs. Like you do.
One of the meetings I went to pretty much every week was held at a church in an affluent suburb. They had good guest speakers and free baked goods to take home, so why not? While there I had the misfortune to be pitched by someone trying to climb the money ladder at ACN (I'll let Wikipedia fill you in). While I had serious misgivings, he kept insisting it wasn't a pyramid scheme and that I could learn more at a Saturday workshop. I told him I'd think about it.
Saturday rolled around, and hey, I wasn't doing anything else. I drove downtown to the meeting, which was in a conference room in some nondescript under-rented (hey, Great Recession) office building. The whole room just dripped with grease and snake oil. The main speaker was a preacher who had seen the light about ACN, had joined, and now was making lots of money. (In my head: "nice new god you've got there, buddy! How's the old one feel about that?") Then we watched a video that made clear that the product we were selling was secondary in importance to getting people under your wing so you could rack up the sweet sweet residuals. (As an aside: the thought of inviting friends over to my house for "no reason in particular" and then springing a sales pitch on them makes me a bit queasy.)
After the video came the punchline: the top salesmakers in each region got to go to ACN's annual conference, and this year the keynote speaker was Donald Trump! Isn't that EXCITING? The man himself! The adoration was intense.
It wasn't the most fun I've ever had on a Saturday morning, but I sure learned a lot.
Finally: Some light reading. [WSJ]
posted by pianoblack at 3:15 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
I said that I wanted it to be a gradual process, through positive incentives. Bribe people, essentially. It would take several decades, I imagine. You'd have to provide a hell of a sweet deal, too. Really, it is the desire to streamline and ease a process that will take place naturally.
If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition. If they don't, then that's okay. I did not and would never suggest force. Without government capitulating into giving them ridiculous ditch-digging jobs, the population won't rebound.
I'm not sure you've actually thought this plan through. OK. So you want to take people away from a regional area and send them towards urban areas. Who's going to buy their old houses? They can't sell them. The government? Are you going to screw them by paying market? Or are you going to give them a price that lets them establish themselves in a high priced urban area? If you're going to give people half a million to let them get started in an urban area that 2000 people just cost you a billion bucks to move. Either that or you can send the people into the city with $80K in their pockets and say "good luck".
Then once people cotton on to the plan do you have a way to stop speculators? They'll pick up cheap houses, wait for the government to come along and buy their "residence" and then take the profits back to the city.
This is before you get started triggering all the Agenda 21 bullshit that these people are terrified about.
This is the know-it-all technocratic liberalism that gets a bad name for itself in rural/conservative circles. There are no easy answers to these problems. Please stop for the good of the left.
posted by Talez at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [94 favorites]
If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition. If they don't, then that's okay. I did not and would never suggest force. Without government capitulating into giving them ridiculous ditch-digging jobs, the population won't rebound.
I'm not sure you've actually thought this plan through. OK. So you want to take people away from a regional area and send them towards urban areas. Who's going to buy their old houses? They can't sell them. The government? Are you going to screw them by paying market? Or are you going to give them a price that lets them establish themselves in a high priced urban area? If you're going to give people half a million to let them get started in an urban area that 2000 people just cost you a billion bucks to move. Either that or you can send the people into the city with $80K in their pockets and say "good luck".
Then once people cotton on to the plan do you have a way to stop speculators? They'll pick up cheap houses, wait for the government to come along and buy their "residence" and then take the profits back to the city.
This is before you get started triggering all the Agenda 21 bullshit that these people are terrified about.
This is the know-it-all technocratic liberalism that gets a bad name for itself in rural/conservative circles. There are no easy answers to these problems. Please stop for the good of the left.
posted by Talez at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [94 favorites]
constantinescharity
If what you mean to say is "we should incentivize moving to coastal cities" you can do that without disparaging the millions of Americans between NYC and LA. And meanwhile, we'll be here holding down the fort, maintaining the infrastructure, and growing the food for when those same coastal cities are underwater. See you then.
From sea to shining sea.
posted by that's how you get ants at 3:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
If what you mean to say is "we should incentivize moving to coastal cities" you can do that without disparaging the millions of Americans between NYC and LA. And meanwhile, we'll be here holding down the fort, maintaining the infrastructure, and growing the food for when those same coastal cities are underwater. See you then.
From sea to shining sea.
posted by that's how you get ants at 3:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
The battle for the Senate has narrowed to these 6 states
The Senate will be won, insiders say, in a half-dozen states that could go either way on Election Day: The traditional swing states of Nevada, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire, and the newly competitive states of North Carolina, Missouri and Indiana, which historically lean Republican.posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
constantinescharity
you know all the paranoid talk from fringers about agenda 21? - the wacko thought that the u n and the u s are plotting to depopulate rural areas by force?
here you are actually arguing FOR such a thing
do you realize there's people out there already arming themselves against your idea?
also, looking over the news of the day, it's not the midwest that seems to be falling apart in this country or becoming unworkable to live in due to economics
maybe you guys should move HERE
posted by pyramid termite at 3:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [23 favorites]
you know all the paranoid talk from fringers about agenda 21? - the wacko thought that the u n and the u s are plotting to depopulate rural areas by force?
here you are actually arguing FOR such a thing
do you realize there's people out there already arming themselves against your idea?
also, looking over the news of the day, it's not the midwest that seems to be falling apart in this country or becoming unworkable to live in due to economics
maybe you guys should move HERE
posted by pyramid termite at 3:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [23 favorites]
"solar power for everyone" (we really have been trying to make that work for decades),
"We" who? Not the oil and coal companies, who to this day are pushing ways to throw sand in the gears of all non-fossil-fuel energy sources. If we had really gone after solar from the beginning, we'd have it by now. Or don't you know about the ugly celebrating when Reagan took the solar panels off the White House because it pleased the oil interests? The coal-rolling attitude isn't new.
Solar power generation/transmission (with remote places having their own units/small plants) + cheap wifi infrastruture build up (instead of being hamstrung by the big telco companies) would make living in rural areas much easier for lots of people. And they could live more sustainably and drive less and drive electric cars that polluted less, if we pushed for it.
If we focused on energy independence and reducing pollution like we did on the moon landing, we'd be a lot further ahead. We still can do that, if we have the will.
I don't believe that we can or should aim for everyone in giant cities with the middle of the country depopulated. We can aim for better ways of living that don't poison the planet. That's where we need to start.
posted by emjaybee at 3:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
"We" who? Not the oil and coal companies, who to this day are pushing ways to throw sand in the gears of all non-fossil-fuel energy sources. If we had really gone after solar from the beginning, we'd have it by now. Or don't you know about the ugly celebrating when Reagan took the solar panels off the White House because it pleased the oil interests? The coal-rolling attitude isn't new.
Solar power generation/transmission (with remote places having their own units/small plants) + cheap wifi infrastruture build up (instead of being hamstrung by the big telco companies) would make living in rural areas much easier for lots of people. And they could live more sustainably and drive less and drive electric cars that polluted less, if we pushed for it.
If we focused on energy independence and reducing pollution like we did on the moon landing, we'd be a lot further ahead. We still can do that, if we have the will.
I don't believe that we can or should aim for everyone in giant cities with the middle of the country depopulated. We can aim for better ways of living that don't poison the planet. That's where we need to start.
posted by emjaybee at 3:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
From the "light reading" link:
“I think the ACN video phone is amazing,” Mr. Trump said in an ACN news release just before a two-hour, prime time Sunday night Celebrity Apprentice episode on the product in 2011. “I simply can’t imagine anybody using this phone and not loving it.”posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:27 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Even before the show aired, the ACN video phone was in trouble. It sold poorly in part because it only worked with other ACN video phones, unlike Skype’s video-calling technology. The company had slashed orders for the phone from its supplier, which laid off 70% of its staff just before the show aired and later filed to liquidate in federal bankruptcy court, according to regulatory filings.
constantinescharity
I'm sorry. I make it a point not to snark or pile on but I had a dose of migraine medicine go strange on me today and I'm feeling weird. I still disagree with you but here is a real Miswestern apology from me to you.
posted by that's how you get ants at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry. I make it a point not to snark or pile on but I had a dose of migraine medicine go strange on me today and I'm feeling weird. I still disagree with you but here is a real Miswestern apology from me to you.
posted by that's how you get ants at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
"we should incentivize moving to coastal cities"
But we already are doing that! The major problem of rural America is that the lack of jobs there, the availability of jobs in coastal cities, and the increased opportunities that go along with those jobs, have created a brain drain.
I suppose that one possible solution to that brain drain is just to move everyone en masse to the cities, but that seems hideously inefficient compared to the many other options that exist.
Rural Ohio isn't an inherently unlivable waste that people need to be evacuated from. It's just that it's hard to find a job there.
posted by Sara C. at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
But we already are doing that! The major problem of rural America is that the lack of jobs there, the availability of jobs in coastal cities, and the increased opportunities that go along with those jobs, have created a brain drain.
I suppose that one possible solution to that brain drain is just to move everyone en masse to the cities, but that seems hideously inefficient compared to the many other options that exist.
Rural Ohio isn't an inherently unlivable waste that people need to be evacuated from. It's just that it's hard to find a job there.
posted by Sara C. at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Or huge swaths of connected parkland that snake across the country, sequestering carbon and providing beautiful places for anyone and everyone to visit.
And will there be gas stations, hotels, campgrounds, restaurants, visitor centers, ski lodges, etc. within this continent-wide swath of wilderness across four time zones? And if so... who, exactly, will staff them and supply them, and provide them with water and power, and maintain the roads?
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 3:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]
And will there be gas stations, hotels, campgrounds, restaurants, visitor centers, ski lodges, etc. within this continent-wide swath of wilderness across four time zones? And if so... who, exactly, will staff them and supply them, and provide them with water and power, and maintain the roads?
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 3:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [17 favorites]
If your job involves sitting in a chair in front of a computer, it doesn't actually matter in what part of the country you live.
I've been freelance for years using a computer but it still very much matters what part of the country I live in because only the cities, and a select few, offer affordable high speed Internet, particularly high upload speeds.
posted by juiceCake at 3:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've been freelance for years using a computer but it still very much matters what part of the country I live in because only the cities, and a select few, offer affordable high speed Internet, particularly high upload speeds.
posted by juiceCake at 3:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
pianoblack:
After the video came the punchline: the top salesmakers in each region got to go to ACN's annual conference, and this year the keynote speaker was Donald Trump! Isn't that EXCITING? The man himself! The adoration was intense.
It wasn't the most fun I've ever had on a Saturday morning, but I sure learned a lot.
Oh man. Even the National Review (National Review!) said, back in March:
Trump’s Multi-Level Marketing Telecom Endorsement Is Another Example of His Terrible Judgement
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
After the video came the punchline: the top salesmakers in each region got to go to ACN's annual conference, and this year the keynote speaker was Donald Trump! Isn't that EXCITING? The man himself! The adoration was intense.
It wasn't the most fun I've ever had on a Saturday morning, but I sure learned a lot.
Oh man. Even the National Review (National Review!) said, back in March:
Trump’s Multi-Level Marketing Telecom Endorsement Is Another Example of His Terrible Judgement
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The stereotype of rural residents as uniformly white, conservative, racist, "deplorables" if you will, is false. Many rural residents are liberal, others are conservative but would never consider voting for Trump, and, most of all, there are many people of color in rural America. From the link: "more than half of all Native Americans reside in rural or small town areas." Especially for the Native rural people, this is their land, and has been their land for hundreds of years. The Native American Relocation Acts in the 1950's didn't really go well - displaced Native Americans went from rural poverty to urban poverty on top of having their cultures stripped away from them.
I think people should be free to move, and, if moving to the nearest city will help some people find jobs and a better life, that's great, and it wouldn't hurt to help them move. But "relocating" people willy-nilly is so fraught with potential for abuse that I think it's a terrible idea. I'm more in favor of seeing opportunities and infrastructure (and a guaranteed basic income!) move to where the people are. Many people have legitimate reasons for staying.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]
I think people should be free to move, and, if moving to the nearest city will help some people find jobs and a better life, that's great, and it wouldn't hurt to help them move. But "relocating" people willy-nilly is so fraught with potential for abuse that I think it's a terrible idea. I'm more in favor of seeing opportunities and infrastructure (and a guaranteed basic income!) move to where the people are. Many people have legitimate reasons for staying.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:39 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]
HRC just mentioned Hamilton in her speech!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
thats how you get ants: Thank you from my Midwest, suburb-living, 2-car having, Clinton voting and volunteering, left-wing family for pointing out that we're not all caricatures of Billy Hayseed out here. While constantinecharity's Cascadiaopolis urban utopia might work in a game or a sci-fi novel, in reality, there are advantages and disadvantages to living just about anywhere, and to say that all Midwesterners are simply a drain on the tax dollars of the upstanding urbanites seems highly short-sighted. (Not to mention that there ARE actually urban areas out here in flyover country, regardless of what vision you may have in your head of cows and cornfields.). In short, don't apologize. :-)
posted by jferg at 3:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by jferg at 3:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
> If you're in a town of five thousand people, and two thousand take the deal, I'm hoping it wouldn't be long before the rest leave of their own volition.
The citizens of Centralia, PA were ordered to leave, and bribed to leave, their land has been claimed by eminent domain, the Post Office has invalidated their zip code, and are literally living on top of a toxic coal fire and there are still a bunch that flatly refuse to leave.
Do not ever underestimate the intransigence of people who feel emotional attachment to a place that's stronger than all material evidence regarding its livability. Or are so firmly entrenched in their conspiracy theories that they will compromise their own lives out of sheer cussedness.
posted by ardgedee at 3:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
The citizens of Centralia, PA were ordered to leave, and bribed to leave, their land has been claimed by eminent domain, the Post Office has invalidated their zip code, and are literally living on top of a toxic coal fire and there are still a bunch that flatly refuse to leave.
Do not ever underestimate the intransigence of people who feel emotional attachment to a place that's stronger than all material evidence regarding its livability. Or are so firmly entrenched in their conspiracy theories that they will compromise their own lives out of sheer cussedness.
posted by ardgedee at 3:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
An insightful comparison of Trump to horrible 90's television. I had completely forgotten that Dinosaurs ever existed. Can I have the same hope for my memories of this election cycle?
posted by meinvt at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by meinvt at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Waitaminute, I ENJOYED "Dinosaurs" (just not the Trumpian boss, and he was actually funny, unlike Deplorable Donald). It was one of the last Henson Productions that Jim Henson had a creative role in before his untimely death. And when it was cancelled, it had a final episode in which the entire dinosaur society went extinct, NOT due to a giant meteor, but due to their own environmental destruction. One of the greatest not-very-successful series in the history of TV. Not The Mama.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:51 PM on October 23, 2016 [53 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:51 PM on October 23, 2016 [53 favorites]
Rural Ohio isn't an inherently unlivable waste that people need to be evacuated from. It's just that it's hard to find a job there.Also, a lot of the Midwest isn't rural. It's not like there's New York, LA, and an endless mass of farmland in between.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:52 PM on October 23, 2016 [26 favorites]
Yeah, you're not going to get people to move, and we shouldn't abandon people who can't, in either our hearts, minds, or just...reality.
But most of the western US is actually inherently uninhabitable. Our water policy is basically insane amounts of water welfare to states that were developed around the existence of said welfare, and is totally unsustainable. And we coastal city people have been lectured for basically ever about how those otherwise uninhabitable places where we send our tax dollars are the REAL America, with REAL values that just happen to shit all over the people in the cities who pay for them.
It's not really a great arrangement. And it's definitely not sustainable. I don't have any solutions, but it seems like sustainable development and infrastructure has got to be part of anything that even looks like a solution.
(I have no idea what to do about the western water welfare states. That is...oh man that is an intractable problem.)
posted by schadenfrau at 3:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
But most of the western US is actually inherently uninhabitable. Our water policy is basically insane amounts of water welfare to states that were developed around the existence of said welfare, and is totally unsustainable. And we coastal city people have been lectured for basically ever about how those otherwise uninhabitable places where we send our tax dollars are the REAL America, with REAL values that just happen to shit all over the people in the cities who pay for them.
It's not really a great arrangement. And it's definitely not sustainable. I don't have any solutions, but it seems like sustainable development and infrastructure has got to be part of anything that even looks like a solution.
(I have no idea what to do about the western water welfare states. That is...oh man that is an intractable problem.)
posted by schadenfrau at 3:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
My view is that hope has not much to do with it; there's a significant bloc of voters in this country that genuinely hold these views and they seem to be relatively impervious to any appeal to logic, reason, faith, emotion, authority, justice, loving-kindness or shared humanity as far as I can see
That honestly hasn't been my experience. From what I've seen, Trump voters can be converted, it just needs an exhausting amount of effort to do so and so it's slow going.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
That honestly hasn't been my experience. From what I've seen, Trump voters can be converted, it just needs an exhausting amount of effort to do so and so it's slow going.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
Not The Mama.
Literally the only thing I remember about that show. Hopefully "Build that wall" will become the equivalent for this one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Literally the only thing I remember about that show. Hopefully "Build that wall" will become the equivalent for this one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've been freelance for years using a computer but it still very much matters what part of the country I live in because only the cities, and a select few, offer affordable high speed Internet, particularly high upload speeds.
Plus the geeks in a city can go to endless meetups - I could get about half my meals gratis at meetups if I really dedicated myself to learning everything about computers, webdev and sysadmin. Plus I get all of the in person networking opportunities you could ever want (or not want if you're introverted). At every talk I go to there is active recruiting.
You don't get that when you are rural.
posted by srboisvert at 3:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Plus the geeks in a city can go to endless meetups - I could get about half my meals gratis at meetups if I really dedicated myself to learning everything about computers, webdev and sysadmin. Plus I get all of the in person networking opportunities you could ever want (or not want if you're introverted). At every talk I go to there is active recruiting.
You don't get that when you are rural.
posted by srboisvert at 3:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
that's how you get ants:
I apologise myself. I don't comment that often because I'm not the greatest writer. Haven't really been that together since I fell on my head last year (literally).
I don't feel this way solely out of a technocratic liberalism. I do have a very serious environmentalist streak in me and I think that the kind of wastefulness that exists in a lifestyle that involves huge land holdings and rampant consumerism enabled by high wages is bad. The impression I get is that a significant segment of people who live in rural areas, especially those once supported by factories and mills, do yearn for that.
Our attitude towards land use in general is god-awful and it makes me truly angry. We don't have all this space to waste, and we destroy the land by paving it over and covering it with things that we will probably leave to rot. Cities are dumps for human beings. That's my approach. We're a horrid thing, and the least we can do is concentrate the majority of us, our byproducts and garbage, into small spaces where those things are manageable, or, in the best cases, recyclable. Spreading ourselves, our inevitably decaying buildings, and our garbage across the US in a thin screen makes me feel sad.
It's a privilege, too. A profound one; to think that wide tracks of land belong to you and not those who were murdered to give it to your great grandfather a meagre hundred years before. I think taking that away does a lot to dispelling white supremist myths. Get rid of the hall of worship for those that indirectly celebrate indigenous genocide. So much of rural America is wildly racist, and it's no coincidence. Foundations of genocide lead to fantasies of defending oneself from "urban youths" that are invariably of non-white backgrounds.
I want to repatriate a lot of that land to Americans at large, instead of letting it be carved up and polluted. It's a matter of 50-80 years before half the midwest is destroyed by environmental degradation and natural population movement, probably. I'm just suggesting we anticipate that, and clean up as we move out. Put the land into public trust and prevent its further exploitation. Turn those shrines of "kitschy opulence in abundance"; nostalgia for the unspoken opression of the American Dream, into national parks and treasures. Bonus points for carbon capture.
posted by constantinescharity at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I apologise myself. I don't comment that often because I'm not the greatest writer. Haven't really been that together since I fell on my head last year (literally).
I don't feel this way solely out of a technocratic liberalism. I do have a very serious environmentalist streak in me and I think that the kind of wastefulness that exists in a lifestyle that involves huge land holdings and rampant consumerism enabled by high wages is bad. The impression I get is that a significant segment of people who live in rural areas, especially those once supported by factories and mills, do yearn for that.
Our attitude towards land use in general is god-awful and it makes me truly angry. We don't have all this space to waste, and we destroy the land by paving it over and covering it with things that we will probably leave to rot. Cities are dumps for human beings. That's my approach. We're a horrid thing, and the least we can do is concentrate the majority of us, our byproducts and garbage, into small spaces where those things are manageable, or, in the best cases, recyclable. Spreading ourselves, our inevitably decaying buildings, and our garbage across the US in a thin screen makes me feel sad.
It's a privilege, too. A profound one; to think that wide tracks of land belong to you and not those who were murdered to give it to your great grandfather a meagre hundred years before. I think taking that away does a lot to dispelling white supremist myths. Get rid of the hall of worship for those that indirectly celebrate indigenous genocide. So much of rural America is wildly racist, and it's no coincidence. Foundations of genocide lead to fantasies of defending oneself from "urban youths" that are invariably of non-white backgrounds.
I want to repatriate a lot of that land to Americans at large, instead of letting it be carved up and polluted. It's a matter of 50-80 years before half the midwest is destroyed by environmental degradation and natural population movement, probably. I'm just suggesting we anticipate that, and clean up as we move out. Put the land into public trust and prevent its further exploitation. Turn those shrines of "kitschy opulence in abundance"; nostalgia for the unspoken opression of the American Dream, into national parks and treasures. Bonus points for carbon capture.
posted by constantinescharity at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not going to pile on the "KonMari your country" thing.
Solar power generation/transmission (with remote places having their own units/small plants) + cheap wifi infrastruture build up (instead of being hamstrung by the big telco companies) would make living in rural areas much easier for lots of people.
Wifi infrastructure (and internet in general) is a problem in certain places because of the terrain. It's a problem in other places because of laws preventing a Chattanooga-style public utility provider, thanks to state-level telco lobbying. That stuff will need to be addressed on a federal level, especially if telco consolidation continues at its current pace.
There's something wicked about how climate change denialism has fed the ideological resistance towards non-carbon-based energy sources: treating solar as a scam, hoarding incandescent bulbs, running the A/C to piss off liberals, rolling coal. I think a Dem administration could throw billions at energy-efficient homes and residential solar -- training up installers, subsidising the installation cost -- and there'd still be people (and state govts) who'd refuse it point-blank.
But: this is not a problem that can be addressed by focusing on places that are in slow contraction. It is fundamentally a (sub)urban planning problem for people who have chosen to move to places that are growing. I think about how much farmland between Atlanta and Athens over the past 15 years has been turned into sprawly subdivisions, and how that translates into massive jams on GA 316. This in turn creates the emotional push-pull among white-flighters who'd benefit from commuter rail or some kind of reliable public transportation, but still worry that it would bring Those People From The City to their doorstep. Those places are far less self-sustaining than any of the Appalachian or Midwest towns that got their own newspaper profile this election season, because they come with the expectations of an ever-higher standard of living.
posted by holgate at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Solar power generation/transmission (with remote places having their own units/small plants) + cheap wifi infrastruture build up (instead of being hamstrung by the big telco companies) would make living in rural areas much easier for lots of people.
Wifi infrastructure (and internet in general) is a problem in certain places because of the terrain. It's a problem in other places because of laws preventing a Chattanooga-style public utility provider, thanks to state-level telco lobbying. That stuff will need to be addressed on a federal level, especially if telco consolidation continues at its current pace.
There's something wicked about how climate change denialism has fed the ideological resistance towards non-carbon-based energy sources: treating solar as a scam, hoarding incandescent bulbs, running the A/C to piss off liberals, rolling coal. I think a Dem administration could throw billions at energy-efficient homes and residential solar -- training up installers, subsidising the installation cost -- and there'd still be people (and state govts) who'd refuse it point-blank.
But: this is not a problem that can be addressed by focusing on places that are in slow contraction. It is fundamentally a (sub)urban planning problem for people who have chosen to move to places that are growing. I think about how much farmland between Atlanta and Athens over the past 15 years has been turned into sprawly subdivisions, and how that translates into massive jams on GA 316. This in turn creates the emotional push-pull among white-flighters who'd benefit from commuter rail or some kind of reliable public transportation, but still worry that it would bring Those People From The City to their doorstep. Those places are far less self-sustaining than any of the Appalachian or Midwest towns that got their own newspaper profile this election season, because they come with the expectations of an ever-higher standard of living.
posted by holgate at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
That Trump/Dinosaurs comparison if fantastic.
I was shocked and pleased that 'they went there' for the show's finale (dinotropic climate change).
posted by porpoise at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was shocked and pleased that 'they went there' for the show's finale (dinotropic climate change).
posted by porpoise at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I would also like to extend the offer to constantinecharity to come to Kansas City and experience the Midwest for him or herself. Just send me MeMail.
posted by jferg at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by jferg at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
(I have no idea what to do about the western water welfare states. That is...oh man that is an intractable problem.)
If it's anything like my hometown of Perth it's going to be a mix of conservation, water recycling and desal plants running on renewable energy but on a massive scale. It's really difficult when you need the buyin of all these private and public entities to properly do it at scale.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
If it's anything like my hometown of Perth it's going to be a mix of conservation, water recycling and desal plants running on renewable energy but on a massive scale. It's really difficult when you need the buyin of all these private and public entities to properly do it at scale.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I guess I don't know enough about voter rights legislation but I thought this kind of stuff was illegal.
I am not authorized to see that tweet. What does it say?
posted by Room 641-A at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am not authorized to see that tweet. What does it say?
posted by Room 641-A at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the part where all the food and energy production for this cities-and-forests future is coming from.
Don't forget the places where people from cities want to go on vacation. Those always turn out to be worthy of existing and having convenient transportation.
Of course, if all of the food and energy production were moved inside cities, all of the GHG release that happens outside of cities for that production couldn't be subtracted from the per-capita for city denizens doing the consumption, and we wouldn't be able to pretend rural living is so ideologically inferior.
posted by XMLicious at 4:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Most of Trump’s charts skew the data. And not always in his favor.
Donald Trump’s campaign is obsessed with favorable poll results, as evidenced by a graphic deluge on official social media channels. It’s a marked difference from their Democratic rival who has led polling averages throughout most of the campaign. And while neither candidate has a perfect record when it comes to spinning the data, only the Trump campaign has used a combination of cherry-picked polls and misleading data visualization to paint a cheerier picture of its prospects on Election Day.posted by kirkaracha at 4:04 PM on October 23, 2016
Here’s What I Learned About Julian Assange While Working Alongside Him
To an outsider, the WikiLeaks of 2016 looks totally unrelated to the WikiLeaks of 2010. Then it was a darling of many of the liberal left, working with some of the world’s most respected newspapers exposing the truth behind drone killing, civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq, and surveillance of the top UN officials.
Now it is the darling of the alt-right, revealing hacked emails seemingly to influence a presidential contest, claiming the US election is “rigged”, and descending into conspiracy. Just this week on Twitter, it has described the deaths by natural causes of two of its supporters as a “bloody year for WikiLeaks”, and warned of media outlets “controlled by” members of the Rothschild family – a common anti-Semitic trope.
The questions asked about the organisation and its leader are often the wrong ones: how has WikiLeaks changed so much? Is Julian Assange the catspaw of Vladimir Putin? Is WikiLeaks endorsing a president candidate who has been described as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, and more?
These questions miss a broader truth: neither Assange nor WikiLeaks (and the two are virtually one and the same thing) has changed – the world they operate in has. WikiLeaks is in many ways the same bold, reckless, paranoid creation that once it was, but how that manifests, and who cheers it on has changed.
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
To an outsider, the WikiLeaks of 2016 looks totally unrelated to the WikiLeaks of 2010. Then it was a darling of many of the liberal left, working with some of the world’s most respected newspapers exposing the truth behind drone killing, civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq, and surveillance of the top UN officials.
Now it is the darling of the alt-right, revealing hacked emails seemingly to influence a presidential contest, claiming the US election is “rigged”, and descending into conspiracy. Just this week on Twitter, it has described the deaths by natural causes of two of its supporters as a “bloody year for WikiLeaks”, and warned of media outlets “controlled by” members of the Rothschild family – a common anti-Semitic trope.
The questions asked about the organisation and its leader are often the wrong ones: how has WikiLeaks changed so much? Is Julian Assange the catspaw of Vladimir Putin? Is WikiLeaks endorsing a president candidate who has been described as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, and more?
These questions miss a broader truth: neither Assange nor WikiLeaks (and the two are virtually one and the same thing) has changed – the world they operate in has. WikiLeaks is in many ways the same bold, reckless, paranoid creation that once it was, but how that manifests, and who cheers it on has changed.
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
Fun fact: Assange makes Wikileaks people sign an NDA.
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [37 favorites]
Reading coastal MeFi's comments about the West and Midwest is kinda like listening to nuns talking about sex.
posted by Ber at 4:14 PM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]
posted by Ber at 4:14 PM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]
Reading coastal MeFi's comments about the West and Midwest is kinda like listening to nuns talking about sex.
Go on . . .
posted by jeremias at 4:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
On the other hand, at least some nuns probably have had sex before they entered the vocation...
On topic: perhaps the most depressing thing on my FB feed are the people delighted that their teenage daughters are Trump supports. I just--what? how? why? Why are these people such terrible parents?
posted by TwoStride at 4:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
On topic: perhaps the most depressing thing on my FB feed are the people delighted that their teenage daughters are Trump supports. I just--what? how? why? Why are these people such terrible parents?
posted by TwoStride at 4:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Even the MeFites who hail from the Midwest but now live on the coasts? Come on. Reducing more groups and areas to stereotypes doesn't help.
posted by palomar at 4:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by palomar at 4:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Reading coastal MeFi's comments about the West and Midwest is kinda like listening to nuns talking about sex.
Or like visiting a foreign country and the first thing someone asks you when they find out you're American is, "Wow, how many guns do you own? Have you ever killed somebody??"
posted by indubitable at 4:18 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Or like visiting a foreign country and the first thing someone asks you when they find out you're American is, "Wow, how many guns do you own? Have you ever killed somebody??"
posted by indubitable at 4:18 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Can we please drop the regional derail now?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:18 PM on October 23, 2016 [58 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:18 PM on October 23, 2016 [58 favorites]
Selfishly speaking, I'd rather not have a bunch of angry displaced rural folks forcibly migrated to my city thank you very much.
posted by localhuman at 4:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 4:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
On topic: perhaps the most depressing thing on my FB feed are the people delighted that their teenage daughters are Trump supports. I just--what? how? why? Why are these people such terrible parents?
Did they also take the girls to a daddy-daughter ball? Did the girls sign any pledges? The kids, at least, have a chance to grow up and find new thoughts to put in their heads, and when I see this happen, I try to be charitable and assume that they will, and might have in secret already.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Did they also take the girls to a daddy-daughter ball? Did the girls sign any pledges? The kids, at least, have a chance to grow up and find new thoughts to put in their heads, and when I see this happen, I try to be charitable and assume that they will, and might have in secret already.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think I'm not totally sure what people are objecting to. Rural areas are more conservative. "Heartland values" has been a Thing in politics as long as I've been paying attention. Western states do depend on an unsustainable water policy funded by the federal government. Unsustainable land use policies are likely gonna get a lot worse because of climate change (and of course the coasts are fucked too). I'm not going to pretend to be as knowledgeable as some of the policy wonks in these threads about possible solutions, but the tensions here are real.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
On topic: perhaps the most depressing thing on my FB feed are the people delighted that their teenage daughters are Trump supports. I just--what? how? why? Why are these people such terrible parents?
Teen daughters don't have a lot of autonomy. If they're under 18 they ain't voting, and if they're over, they might be saying what Mom and Dad want to hear. Give 'em a few years, especially when they're not living at home anymore.
posted by emjaybee at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Teen daughters don't have a lot of autonomy. If they're under 18 they ain't voting, and if they're over, they might be saying what Mom and Dad want to hear. Give 'em a few years, especially when they're not living at home anymore.
posted by emjaybee at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
WaPo If Trump loses, the news media should break the addiction. But can they?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Michael Dukakis looks around in wonderment at the scene outside his Massachusetts home less than 24 hours after his crushing 1988 loss to George H.W. Bush.Boy it sure would be nice to imagine that the LOSER loses all of the attention-- no more press releases, no more surrogates, no more rallies, no more Secret Service, nothing but bills to pay and lawsuits to settle. Probably won't happen this time but I love to imagine him wanting that sweet, sweet free publicity and all of the networks turning him down, walking away, uninterested.
“The barricades were gone. And the agents. And the cop cars, the van, the people — that block had been wall-to-wall demonstrations,” Cramer wrote. No TV trucks, photographers, microphones. The only sound: birds.
“Nobody,” Dukakis says with relief to top aide John Sasso. And Sasso smiles and agrees: “Yeah.”
It’s what happens to losing presidential candidates: Mitt Romney, Al Gore, the elder Bush himself in 1992, after his loss to Bill Clinton.[...]
That welcome relief from the madness, though, seems almost an impossibility if Donald Trump loses on Nov. 8. Trump won’t want it to happen, and I’m afraid that media will be equally reluctant to let go.
American news organizations may complain of Trump Fatigue.
But whether or not we’ll admit it, we have a far worse condition: Trump Addiction. Combined with the candidate’s own need for attention, and his skill at keeping all eyes riveted on him, it’s going to be a hard habit to break.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Yeah, I feel like constantinescharity has pretty firmly established he has no idea what he's talking about w/r/t infrastructure, transit, agriculture, or rural demographics and lifestyles, and we can probably move on from a derail about land use planning for a hypothetical Midwest that exists solely in his own head.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [60 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [60 favorites]
constantinescharity: I'm responding to some of the issues I see with what you raised, but I think responding to it all is rapidly becoming unsustainable.
I'm supposed to let my tax dollars pay for what are sometimes essentially refuges of segregation, where a significant factor is their not wanting to live near any city involves the invocation of racist stereotypes?
Not everyone in the country is white, and responding as if they were elevates the importance of white people in your argument while concealing everyone else. This might be a useful map to recalibrate your sense of the uniformity of race. A decent chunk of the people given the fewest resources and in need of the most infrastructure support are Native Americans, for example, and I think asking them to leave their sovereign nations, which are their sovereign nations due to centuries of relocation and genocide, helps no one.
What you're talking about is ditch-digging to sustain these communities.
No, what I'm talking about is establishing infrastructure and building in the maintenance of it - something we didn't do with the New Deal (and are now reaping the benefits from it). I'm also betting that as that infrastructure maintenance comes into place, cities will grow out of the existing towns and help to sustain those people and give them opportunities. LA is where it is literally because they were fleeing a patent monopoly; cities grow for weird reasons we can't predict.
I'm assuming based on your response that trains are good. Rail lines, those needed for high speed rail, are infrastructure we need built and would really help the country as a whole. Run the rail lines through existing towns and you have the basis of new cities spread out across the country with easier access to everywhere and a way to make it easier for people to get jobs. It would also give us means for decreasing car dependence and shifting culturally to emphasize public transportation.
Another issue is the aging water pipes, many of which are leeching lead into drinking water. This was accelerated in Flint MI via racist policies, but it's a much more widespread problem than people seem to realize. Set up a massive replacement-project in Flint and people there can become the leaders for similar projects all over, build the skills of plumbers and then support themselves outside of government programs. Similar things can happen via other trade skills, though I'd identify plumbing and bridge/overpass construction as the top two priorities, with rail lines a close third. If the programs are built so some of the builders are retained for maintenance and repairs and you have a sustained infrastructure project which can be improved over time as technology improves instead of a New Deal which builds a lot of things and then leaves them to decay.
Part of what Clinton is recommending is ongoing investment in infrastructure like the military reserve, which I think is really smart. I also think it could give opportunities for people from all over to work all over the US, breaking down barriers between us as we work for each other.
Yes, I don't like the habits and ideologies of folks in these places. I see them as sad, and in need of outreach. I do not want to punish them. Rather, I want to better integrate them into our society by bringing them physically closer while reducing the drain that they place on our nation's coffers.
I hear what you think you're saying. I counter with the historical evidence that forced mass migration of communities is not a good idea, especially when it is accompanied with "I see them as sad and in need of outreach" and "a drain".
There will always be parts of our community who take more than they give, and other parts who give more than they take. The reason why so many government benefits cost so much is because they have to take everyone into account and that is expensive. The narrative that people who are a "drain" should be given limited or no choices is pernicious in the US and underpins a lot of peoples' opinions about benefits - those opinions which have led us to calling them "entitlements". I don't think that language is helpful at all, and I think having that mindset leads to circumstances where the people being acted upon are devalued and their knowledge is disregarded.
Add in that several of the communities you want to move are ones which have been moved multiple times, had their children stolen, had their food sources befouled and killed, and I just don't see forced relocation as anything which should be considered. LatinX people, Black people, and Native Americans have a long history of outsiders coming in and destroying what they create, and I can't agree with you that repeating that is the best choice under any circumstances. The problems of the poorer areas of the US are complicated and multilayered, and they need nuanced and careful responses which include members of the communities and center the needs they have identified. We also need to figure out how to correct for the racism inherent in the system - the Emergency Manager driven disasters in Michigan show that laws will be applied disproportionately, and writing as if race isn't a factor in all of this is ignoring the realities of the US being a very racist country.
I see midwesterners have already spoken up while I typed! Hi guys! I, uh... brought corn souffle? (I'm technically a small town girl now, one generation removed Midwesterner, but I get the whole "shut up on the coasts" thing, so sorry! Shutting now. ^.^)
posted by Deoridhe at 4:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
I'm supposed to let my tax dollars pay for what are sometimes essentially refuges of segregation, where a significant factor is their not wanting to live near any city involves the invocation of racist stereotypes?
Not everyone in the country is white, and responding as if they were elevates the importance of white people in your argument while concealing everyone else. This might be a useful map to recalibrate your sense of the uniformity of race. A decent chunk of the people given the fewest resources and in need of the most infrastructure support are Native Americans, for example, and I think asking them to leave their sovereign nations, which are their sovereign nations due to centuries of relocation and genocide, helps no one.
What you're talking about is ditch-digging to sustain these communities.
No, what I'm talking about is establishing infrastructure and building in the maintenance of it - something we didn't do with the New Deal (and are now reaping the benefits from it). I'm also betting that as that infrastructure maintenance comes into place, cities will grow out of the existing towns and help to sustain those people and give them opportunities. LA is where it is literally because they were fleeing a patent monopoly; cities grow for weird reasons we can't predict.
I'm assuming based on your response that trains are good. Rail lines, those needed for high speed rail, are infrastructure we need built and would really help the country as a whole. Run the rail lines through existing towns and you have the basis of new cities spread out across the country with easier access to everywhere and a way to make it easier for people to get jobs. It would also give us means for decreasing car dependence and shifting culturally to emphasize public transportation.
Another issue is the aging water pipes, many of which are leeching lead into drinking water. This was accelerated in Flint MI via racist policies, but it's a much more widespread problem than people seem to realize. Set up a massive replacement-project in Flint and people there can become the leaders for similar projects all over, build the skills of plumbers and then support themselves outside of government programs. Similar things can happen via other trade skills, though I'd identify plumbing and bridge/overpass construction as the top two priorities, with rail lines a close third. If the programs are built so some of the builders are retained for maintenance and repairs and you have a sustained infrastructure project which can be improved over time as technology improves instead of a New Deal which builds a lot of things and then leaves them to decay.
Part of what Clinton is recommending is ongoing investment in infrastructure like the military reserve, which I think is really smart. I also think it could give opportunities for people from all over to work all over the US, breaking down barriers between us as we work for each other.
Yes, I don't like the habits and ideologies of folks in these places. I see them as sad, and in need of outreach. I do not want to punish them. Rather, I want to better integrate them into our society by bringing them physically closer while reducing the drain that they place on our nation's coffers.
I hear what you think you're saying. I counter with the historical evidence that forced mass migration of communities is not a good idea, especially when it is accompanied with "I see them as sad and in need of outreach" and "a drain".
There will always be parts of our community who take more than they give, and other parts who give more than they take. The reason why so many government benefits cost so much is because they have to take everyone into account and that is expensive. The narrative that people who are a "drain" should be given limited or no choices is pernicious in the US and underpins a lot of peoples' opinions about benefits - those opinions which have led us to calling them "entitlements". I don't think that language is helpful at all, and I think having that mindset leads to circumstances where the people being acted upon are devalued and their knowledge is disregarded.
Add in that several of the communities you want to move are ones which have been moved multiple times, had their children stolen, had their food sources befouled and killed, and I just don't see forced relocation as anything which should be considered. LatinX people, Black people, and Native Americans have a long history of outsiders coming in and destroying what they create, and I can't agree with you that repeating that is the best choice under any circumstances. The problems of the poorer areas of the US are complicated and multilayered, and they need nuanced and careful responses which include members of the communities and center the needs they have identified. We also need to figure out how to correct for the racism inherent in the system - the Emergency Manager driven disasters in Michigan show that laws will be applied disproportionately, and writing as if race isn't a factor in all of this is ignoring the realities of the US being a very racist country.
I see midwesterners have already spoken up while I typed! Hi guys! I, uh... brought corn souffle? (I'm technically a small town girl now, one generation removed Midwesterner, but I get the whole "shut up on the coasts" thing, so sorry! Shutting now. ^.^)
posted by Deoridhe at 4:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
I'm thrilled that wikileaks released all this during the campaign. If they'd waited then the GOP would've called them partisan hacks and ignored them. This way, the GOP makes a big deal out of anything they can find, so maybe they cannot ignore it quite so easily after Clinton inevitably wins.
That is a good thing because it might prevent Clinton from appointing, or the GOP from approving, certain important but really problematic people, like oh say Podesta himself.
In fact, the best case scenario for the Democrats as a party, and for American citizens, would be that the wikileaks releases clear away a some of the Democrats old guard, force Clinton to appoint younger people who helped with her campaign, and brings in more modern ideas.
As a tamer example, this cannot hurt anyone as powerful as Clinton, but could easily prompt the GOP to pass some government email security and retention laws, which could easily ensure that some future Bush's emails do not just disappear, send some GOP sysadmins to jail for hiding their bosses emails, etc.
Let the GOP make noise about Clinton's emails now. It won't change anything during the election. After the election it'll almost surely be a net benefit for the left.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
That is a good thing because it might prevent Clinton from appointing, or the GOP from approving, certain important but really problematic people, like oh say Podesta himself.
In fact, the best case scenario for the Democrats as a party, and for American citizens, would be that the wikileaks releases clear away a some of the Democrats old guard, force Clinton to appoint younger people who helped with her campaign, and brings in more modern ideas.
As a tamer example, this cannot hurt anyone as powerful as Clinton, but could easily prompt the GOP to pass some government email security and retention laws, which could easily ensure that some future Bush's emails do not just disappear, send some GOP sysadmins to jail for hiding their bosses emails, etc.
Let the GOP make noise about Clinton's emails now. It won't change anything during the election. After the election it'll almost surely be a net benefit for the left.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think I'm not totally sure what people are objecting to.
the usual liberal/elite/bicoastal people telling flyover/workingclass/rural people what's best for them without knowing much about them or listening to what they say
that's how votes are lost
posted by pyramid termite at 4:27 PM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
the usual liberal/elite/bicoastal people telling flyover/workingclass/rural people what's best for them without knowing much about them or listening to what they say
that's how votes are lost
posted by pyramid termite at 4:27 PM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
Did they also take the girls to a daddy-daughter ball? Did the girls sign any pledges?
Nope, they're just multi-generational rich who somehow believe they bootstrapped themselves to their 1% status and are woefully uninformed about anything outside of that bubble. Sigh. It used to be kind of fun to follow them to see what life is like when you own multiple vacation properties and are, like, hardcore in yachting, but I just can't with the kids wanting Trump swag to wear to school.
posted by TwoStride at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2016
Nope, they're just multi-generational rich who somehow believe they bootstrapped themselves to their 1% status and are woefully uninformed about anything outside of that bubble. Sigh. It used to be kind of fun to follow them to see what life is like when you own multiple vacation properties and are, like, hardcore in yachting, but I just can't with the kids wanting Trump swag to wear to school.
posted by TwoStride at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2016
On linguistical subjects - I finding myself distressed that "bigly" seems to be moving into common parlance both ironically and non-such. It doesn't help encourage the idea of a big fadeout.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
My Visit to the Trump Dump.... Sorry, Trump Tower: Before he makes America great again, can he at least clear the trash out of the Tower's public garden?
"On the fourth floor tower two trophy cases—each empty. Doesn't Barron at least have a snow globe collection that he could stick in one of these? There's another case on the fifth floor that showcases a perfectly lit….nothing. Seriously, this building is like a giant metaphor museum."
posted by chris24 at 4:33 PM on October 23, 2016 [21 favorites]
"On the fourth floor tower two trophy cases—each empty. Doesn't Barron at least have a snow globe collection that he could stick in one of these? There's another case on the fifth floor that showcases a perfectly lit….nothing. Seriously, this building is like a giant metaphor museum."
posted by chris24 at 4:33 PM on October 23, 2016 [21 favorites]
Once the election is over, in happy to add Trump to my "Scott Adams List of People I Need Never Hear From Again. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
@SopanDeb Peak Trumpism here in Naples on the Everglades: "When you fly over the Everglades...you say, “I better have a good helicopter.”
"Peak Trumpism" = word salad plus fear mongering plus egocentrism.
"Peak Trumpism" = word salad plus fear mongering plus egocentrism.
When you fly over the Everglades and you look at those gators and you look at those water moccasins going-- you say "I better have a good helicopter." I told the pilot, "You sure we're OK?" Those are big-- came in from Palm Beach to here and I'm saying, "Let's go get over those" -- cause that's a rough looking sight down there. You don't wanna be down there, right? I've heard for a long time. "Go around the Everglades, it'll take you longer, but they're not good."posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm thrilled that wikileaks released all this during the campaign. If they'd waited then the GOP would've called them partisan hacks and ignored them. This way, the GOP makes a big deal out of anything they can find, so maybe they cannot ignore it quite so easily after Clinton inevitably wins.
That is a good thing because it might prevent Clinton from appointing, or the GOP from approving, certain important but really problematic people, like oh say Podesta himself.
In fact, the best case scenario for the Democrats as a party, and for American citizens, would be that the wikileaks releases clear away a some of the Democrats old guard, force Clinton to appoint younger people who helped with her campaign, and brings in more modern ideas.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Clintons are (1) notoriously loyal and (2) do not give a shit about the appearance of impropriety. Whether this is a response to or a cause of the uncomfortable relationship they have with the media and political adversaries is probably unanswerable at this point. I think HRC is going to be a very good president. But everybody should be strapped in for a very bumpy four years as Republicans and The NY Times conjure up "appearance" scandals and the Clintons refuse to acknowledge anything might be wrong. See: the reassignment of Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Podesta is going to have a very important role in the next administration.
posted by one_bean at 4:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
That is a good thing because it might prevent Clinton from appointing, or the GOP from approving, certain important but really problematic people, like oh say Podesta himself.
In fact, the best case scenario for the Democrats as a party, and for American citizens, would be that the wikileaks releases clear away a some of the Democrats old guard, force Clinton to appoint younger people who helped with her campaign, and brings in more modern ideas.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Clintons are (1) notoriously loyal and (2) do not give a shit about the appearance of impropriety. Whether this is a response to or a cause of the uncomfortable relationship they have with the media and political adversaries is probably unanswerable at this point. I think HRC is going to be a very good president. But everybody should be strapped in for a very bumpy four years as Republicans and The NY Times conjure up "appearance" scandals and the Clintons refuse to acknowledge anything might be wrong. See: the reassignment of Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Podesta is going to have a very important role in the next administration.
posted by one_bean at 4:41 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
My Visit to the Trump Dump.... Sorry, Trump Tower: Before he makes America great again, can he at least clear the trash out of the Tower's public garden?
Oddly, I remember the Trump Tower as one of the Sights that I saw the first time I went to NYC. I was an eleven-year-old from the South, and it was all brass and pink marble, and I was duly impressed. Mainly I was impressed by the ladies' room, which seemed super luxe, and which I badly needed. Trump was just a picture in the tabloids then, a part of the New York landscape, and the worst thing I knew about him was that Bloom County made fun of him all the time.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oddly, I remember the Trump Tower as one of the Sights that I saw the first time I went to NYC. I was an eleven-year-old from the South, and it was all brass and pink marble, and I was duly impressed. Mainly I was impressed by the ladies' room, which seemed super luxe, and which I badly needed. Trump was just a picture in the tabloids then, a part of the New York landscape, and the worst thing I knew about him was that Bloom County made fun of him all the time.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
LIVE Stream: Hillary Clinton Rally in Charlotte with Mothers of the Movement, NC (10/23/2016)I was really disappointed when I read it the second time and realized it was -not- Hillary Clinton and the Mothers of Invention.
posted by jferg at 4:47 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
@SopanDeb In Naples, Trump revived a primary season greatest hit: The John Kerry Bike Crash.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on October 23, 2016
And we gave them [Iran] all this money. We gave them all this power. And no matter what, Kerry, who took Crooked Hillary's place, this guy never walked. The only time he ever walked was to be in a bicycle race when he fell and broke his leg, right? Then he walks in 3 weeks later in crutches. What a group, what a group we have, a group of real losers. That's what we've gotTrump: I only like politicians who don't break their legs (fake)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on October 23, 2016
When you fly over the Everglades and you look at those gators and you look at those water moccasins going-- you say "I better have a good helicopter." I told the pilot, "You sure we're OK?" Those are big-- came in from Palm Beach to here and I'm saying, "Let's go get over those" -- cause that's a rough looking sight down there. You don't wanna be down there, right? I've heard for a long time. "Go around the Everglades, it'll take you longer, but they're not good."
Trumptranslation: So about those Everglades. I will help you keep them all nice and clean and good but, I WAS SO SCARED flying over them. Man, thought I was going to crap myself. No siree you won't make me do that again. I'll fly around them next time.
posted by Jalliah at 4:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trumptranslation: So about those Everglades. I will help you keep them all nice and clean and good but, I WAS SO SCARED flying over them. Man, thought I was going to crap myself. No siree you won't make me do that again. I'll fly around them next time.
posted by Jalliah at 4:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
> "Or like visiting a foreign country and the first thing someone asks you when they find out you're American is, 'Wow, how many guns do you own? Have you ever killed somebody??'"
I was working with a theater troupe in Germany once and a question about guns related to the play came up so everyone turned to look at me, the American. I grumpily lectured them on stereotypes for a little while.
And then answered the question, because, duh, of course I knew. I'm an American.
posted by kyrademon at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
I was working with a theater troupe in Germany once and a question about guns related to the play came up so everyone turned to look at me, the American. I grumpily lectured them on stereotypes for a little while.
And then answered the question, because, duh, of course I knew. I'm an American.
posted by kyrademon at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
The reason this even came up is because earlier in the day, walking down my street with no one else around, I saw a prop plane flying overhead with a banner reading, I shit you not, "CA Chinese Americans for Trump." I live in San Francisco and I actually burst out laughing when I realized what it said, and thought about how much money someone paid to gain exactly zero votes.
In some ways it's the opposite down here in Orange County, CA (only seen one plane recently, and was a little relieved that it was advertising Geico). I work with a couple of college students that supported Sanders, because I noticed once that they had Bernie buttons on their packs. After the primaries the buttons weren't there, but I still hoped they would come around and support Clinton. But a couple of weeks ago I was dismayed that the students and a few of my coworkers (who leaned Trump) were talking about how corrupt the Democrats and HRC was, and used the recent O'Keefe story as an example. My speculation is that the folks who think both sides are bad and the folks who support Trump find common ground in talking about how terrible the Democrats/HRC are. When those conversations happen, I always want to say something but don't because I have a feeling I'm the only pro-Democrat/pro-HRC person there.
posted by FJT at 4:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
In some ways it's the opposite down here in Orange County, CA (only seen one plane recently, and was a little relieved that it was advertising Geico). I work with a couple of college students that supported Sanders, because I noticed once that they had Bernie buttons on their packs. After the primaries the buttons weren't there, but I still hoped they would come around and support Clinton. But a couple of weeks ago I was dismayed that the students and a few of my coworkers (who leaned Trump) were talking about how corrupt the Democrats and HRC was, and used the recent O'Keefe story as an example. My speculation is that the folks who think both sides are bad and the folks who support Trump find common ground in talking about how terrible the Democrats/HRC are. When those conversations happen, I always want to say something but don't because I have a feeling I'm the only pro-Democrat/pro-HRC person there.
posted by FJT at 4:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree that "Podesta is going to have a very important role in the next administration", but maybe not one that needs senate approval, ala Kitchen Cabinet.
Anyways, there are many many ways the Podesta emails could benefit the left even if they do not push any right-wing democrats into early retirement. And almost no way they could derail Clinton's election.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyways, there are many many ways the Podesta emails could benefit the left even if they do not push any right-wing democrats into early retirement. And almost no way they could derail Clinton's election.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Peak Trumpism" = word salad plus fear mongering plus egocentrism.
Lots of those scaaaaarrrrrry racial minorities living in the Everglades, too, for what it's worth.
posted by indubitable at 5:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lots of those scaaaaarrrrrry racial minorities living in the Everglades, too, for what it's worth.
posted by indubitable at 5:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
@wpjenna Button for sale outside the rally of Donald Trump (who possibly didn't pay income taxes for years) says: "Don't tax me bro!"
Yesterday I was talking up Hillary among my pro-Trump family when my wastrel nephew piped up, "Hillary will raise our taxes." Later in the car my husband was fuming, "Like that little shit will ever pay taxes." Said nephew has been in several car wrecks, OD'ed on heroine, is on probation for a felony, been to rehab and has never worked full time. So thanks to all of you folks who paid your taxes so that the ambulances, hospitals, first responders, rehab, courts, court-appointed legal council, probation officers, etc. were there for his use.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]
Yesterday I was talking up Hillary among my pro-Trump family when my wastrel nephew piped up, "Hillary will raise our taxes." Later in the car my husband was fuming, "Like that little shit will ever pay taxes." Said nephew has been in several car wrecks, OD'ed on heroine, is on probation for a felony, been to rehab and has never worked full time. So thanks to all of you folks who paid your taxes so that the ambulances, hospitals, first responders, rehab, courts, court-appointed legal council, probation officers, etc. were there for his use.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:06 PM on October 23, 2016 [45 favorites]
@wpjenna Button for sale outside the rally of Donald Trump (who possibly didn't pay income taxes for years) says: "Don't tax me bro!"
Which makes me think about tax compliance all along the manufacturing and distribution chain all the way down to the parking lot vendors who are selling this stuff at the rallys....
posted by mikelieman at 5:27 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Which makes me think about tax compliance all along the manufacturing and distribution chain all the way down to the parking lot vendors who are selling this stuff at the rallys....
posted by mikelieman at 5:27 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Freelance investigative journalist Murray Waas has a lengthy story up (warning: link contains the photographs, albeit with pixelated nipples) about a set of photographs of a woman exposing herself to Trump so that he might sign her breasts, but more importantly, efforts by Trump's lawyer, the National Enquirer, and its CEO David Pecker, to cover it up, an issue that raises important questions given the Enquirer's role in supporting Trump and spreading significant dirt on his opponents.
It's a long and sordid story, some of the connections are a bit tenuous, and there's a reason it's posted on Waas's crooksandliars blog instead of published by a well-known outfit, but it's starting to make the rounds and Waas has a longstanding reputation for his investigative reporting.
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's a long and sordid story, some of the connections are a bit tenuous, and there's a reason it's posted on Waas's crooksandliars blog instead of published by a well-known outfit, but it's starting to make the rounds and Waas has a longstanding reputation for his investigative reporting.
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
That Trump/Dinosaurs comparison if fantastic.
It is pretty good.
A couple of weeks ago I was wondering if Trump was comparable to Archie Bunker. I'm too young to have watched All in the Family, so I just knew about the character's stereotype. I watched a bunch of old clips on Youtube and was surprised to find that Archie Bunker was far more progressive and nice even compared to Trump.
posted by peeedro at 5:33 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
It is pretty good.
A couple of weeks ago I was wondering if Trump was comparable to Archie Bunker. I'm too young to have watched All in the Family, so I just knew about the character's stereotype. I watched a bunch of old clips on Youtube and was surprised to find that Archie Bunker was far more progressive and nice even compared to Trump.
posted by peeedro at 5:33 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
From zachlipton's link above: As it turned out, Pecker and Frommer had done business of this sort before. Three years earlier, Frommer had been trafficking in pornographic photos of Arnold Schwarzenegger.
This whole piece is one big dirty limerick.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
This whole piece is one big dirty limerick.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:35 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Archie Bunker was far more progressive and nice even compared to Trump.
For all his problems, Archie was a human being.
posted by mikelieman at 5:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
For all his problems, Archie was a human being.
posted by mikelieman at 5:36 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
When you fly over the Everglades
and you look at those gators
and you look at those water moccasins going
you say: I better have a good helicopter
I told the pilot: You sure we're okay?
Those are big: came in from Palm Beach to here
and I'm saying: Let's go get over those
'cause that's a rough-looking sight down there.
You don't wanna be down there, right?
I've heard for a long time: Go around the Everglades
It'll take you longer
but they're not good.
posted by salix at 5:42 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
and you look at those gators
and you look at those water moccasins going
you say: I better have a good helicopter
I told the pilot: You sure we're okay?
Those are big: came in from Palm Beach to here
and I'm saying: Let's go get over those
'cause that's a rough-looking sight down there.
You don't wanna be down there, right?
I've heard for a long time: Go around the Everglades
It'll take you longer
but they're not good.
posted by salix at 5:42 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Archie Bunker was portrayed as out-of-touch; his whole family, all his friends and neighbors, pretty much everyone thought he was outdated and wrong. Every episode was pretty much "Archie's prejudice about X hilariously blows up in his face, he grouses and subsides." Toward the end of the series, he had softened up almost completely and had only token outbursts.
It's in some ways a reflection of Norman Lear's over-optimism, that Archie was portrayed ultimately as an old dinosaur getting swept away. Lear underestimated/didn't foresee the Reagan backlash and resurgence of people who thought just like Archie and were much nastier about it than he ever was. Very possibly because, unlike Archie, they did not have a parade of Very Special Guests coming through their house to directly disprove all their prejudices.
My dad watched the show religiously but I could never be sure if he thought Archie was the joke or the hero of the series. He certainly had a lot in common with him.
posted by emjaybee at 5:44 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
It's in some ways a reflection of Norman Lear's over-optimism, that Archie was portrayed ultimately as an old dinosaur getting swept away. Lear underestimated/didn't foresee the Reagan backlash and resurgence of people who thought just like Archie and were much nastier about it than he ever was. Very possibly because, unlike Archie, they did not have a parade of Very Special Guests coming through their house to directly disprove all their prejudices.
My dad watched the show religiously but I could never be sure if he thought Archie was the joke or the hero of the series. He certainly had a lot in common with him.
posted by emjaybee at 5:44 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
My dad watched the show religiously but I could never be sure if he thought Archie was the joke or the hero of the series.
Likely both. Conservatives know they're being made fun of, so develop a studied suspension of irony to enjoy liberal media (Then switch over to watch 24 or whatever.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Likely both. Conservatives know they're being made fun of, so develop a studied suspension of irony to enjoy liberal media (Then switch over to watch 24 or whatever.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:50 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump v Trump
They're equally bad!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
They're equally bad!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty much done with my ballot, I need to research some more of the down ballot things.
And of course, pickup some Wonder Woman stamps to mail the envelope in.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
And of course, pickup some Wonder Woman stamps to mail the envelope in.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:58 PM on October 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
mrzarquon: I put a Shirley Chisholm stamp on mine!
posted by R343L at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by R343L at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
(in meta commentary, you can buy a stamp celebrating the repeal of the stamp act)
posted by mrzarquon at 6:09 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 6:09 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Lugenpresse" or "lying press" is the term Hitler used to discredit press in Nazi Germany. Trump supporters yelled it at journalists tonight
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm pretty much done with my ballot, I need to research some more of the down ballot things.
I'm getting pretty good at reading for/against statements for initiatives in the voter guide. I don't even have to read the title or the summary, just look at which side has the specious bullshit in it and choose the other. In a pinch, look at the endorsements. Eyman? Bzzzt.
I only got stumped on one that I'll have to look into a little further because both 'for' and 'against' sounded like reasonably adult arguments.
posted by ctmf at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm getting pretty good at reading for/against statements for initiatives in the voter guide. I don't even have to read the title or the summary, just look at which side has the specious bullshit in it and choose the other. In a pinch, look at the endorsements. Eyman? Bzzzt.
I only got stumped on one that I'll have to look into a little further because both 'for' and 'against' sounded like reasonably adult arguments.
posted by ctmf at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why can't he sue them now?He's got to wait for them all to come forward first.
Yeah, he's not got enough accusers yet to form a certified class.
posted by tilde at 6:17 PM on October 23, 2016
The Atlantic on "Lugenpresse", last year.
The coronation [as "worst word of the year"] of Lügenpresse represents a troubling trend. The phrase, which means "lying press" and found most recent use in the Nazi era, has become something of a watchword among Germany's increasingly vociferous anti-immigrant (and largely anti-Muslim) activists. In recent months, these demonstrators have called on the media to "tell the truth" about what immigrants are doing to Germany.posted by thelonius at 6:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure if I'm looking forward to the asbestos-style "Have you been sexually harassed by Donald Trump?" class-action lawyer commercials that are inevitably coming...
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Here's Frommer's side of the story about acquiring the Guccione collection (warning: no explicit content, but some risque photos and the site itself isn't really SFW) which describes someone who I assume to be Waas ("the journalist") pitching the story to various orgs, and having them show interest only to walk away once they'd been in contact with TrumpOrg and particularly Michael "Says who?" Cohen. [*]
But: everybody's an unreliable narrator on this one, apart perhaps from Waas.
It's really a story about: a) Trump's use of the National Enquirer for political dirty tricks; b) how Cohen's job isn't apparently to litigate but to intimidate the press.
Sarah Kendzior has speculated for a while that Trump either has dirt on various news orgs or intimidates them into dropping stories or offers access in exchange for soft coverage. I'm not entirely convinced by this, but we have seen glimpses of the carrot (press access to Trump and especially Melania or Ivanka) and the stick (Cohen calling and threatening to fuck you up.)
* Cohen is definitely not like a typical chief counsel and apparently got his law degree from the equivalent of Hollywood Upstairs Medical College.
posted by holgate at 6:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
But: everybody's an unreliable narrator on this one, apart perhaps from Waas.
It's really a story about: a) Trump's use of the National Enquirer for political dirty tricks; b) how Cohen's job isn't apparently to litigate but to intimidate the press.
Sarah Kendzior has speculated for a while that Trump either has dirt on various news orgs or intimidates them into dropping stories or offers access in exchange for soft coverage. I'm not entirely convinced by this, but we have seen glimpses of the carrot (press access to Trump and especially Melania or Ivanka) and the stick (Cohen calling and threatening to fuck you up.)
* Cohen is definitely not like a typical chief counsel and apparently got his law degree from the equivalent of Hollywood Upstairs Medical College.
posted by holgate at 6:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party)
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
Orioles owner Peter Angelos is a Democrat.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
Orioles owner Peter Angelos is a Democrat.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Racketeer and owner of the Minnesota Vikings Zygi Wilf leans Democrat
posted by Ber at 6:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 6:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
* Cohen is definitely not like a typical chief counsel and apparently got his law degree from the equivalent of Hollywood Upstairs Medical College.
"You don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a *criminal* lawyer."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
"You don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a *criminal* lawyer."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:25 PM on October 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
@LOLGOP
Trump says every attack should be a sneak attack and so far we have evidence from about ten women that suggests that's true.
posted by chris24 at 6:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
Trump says every attack should be a sneak attack and so far we have evidence from about ten women that suggests that's true.
posted by chris24 at 6:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
I learned from the SL Tribune today, that McNugget is 40, and though you see him pictured holding a child, he has never been married, and has no children. He has little personal history.
posted by Oyéah at 6:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 6:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I learned from the SL Tribune today, that McNugget is 40, and though you see him pictured holding a child, he has never been married, and has no children. He has little personal history.
Yeah. Because he's a spy. CIA man through and through.
posted by anastasiav at 6:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
Yeah. Because he's a spy. CIA man through and through.
posted by anastasiav at 6:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
Orioles owner Peter Angelos is a Democrat
So is Warren Brown. That's why we have a Republican Governor.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:46 PM on October 23, 2016
So is Warren Brown. That's why we have a Republican Governor.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:46 PM on October 23, 2016
Racketeer and owner of the Minnesota Vikings Zygi Wilf leans Democrat
Boo doo!
posted by kirkaracha at 6:51 PM on October 23, 2016
In 2004, Red Sox owners John Henry and Tom Werner campaigned in New Hampshire along with then-Sox GM Theo Epstein for John Kerry after their team broke the Curse. One guess whom Curt "Bloody Sock" Schilling campaigned for.
posted by adamg at 6:54 PM on October 23, 2016
posted by adamg at 6:54 PM on October 23, 2016
@SteveSilberman: RE: Trump followers using the term "Lügenpresse." These Hitler comparisons are getting tired. EXCEPT THEY'RE ACTUALLY QUOTING HITLER.
posted by Lexica at 6:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 6:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [44 favorites]
Op-ed: Why McMullin is a mirage in the Utah desert
Considering he's a Mormon, that's very strange he's not already married. Especially at age 40. There's a lot of pressure. Usually starts when the guy returns from his mission. Plus you'd think he'd want to escape the purgatory of singles wards as quickly as possible.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Considering he's a Mormon, that's very strange he's not already married. Especially at age 40. There's a lot of pressure. Usually starts when the guy returns from his mission. Plus you'd think he'd want to escape the purgatory of singles wards as quickly as possible.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am hearing from my Idaho brother, the cities will be destroyed and only the country folk will be left. He picks this up somewhere.
posted by Oyéah at 6:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 6:59 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mod note:
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 7:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
efforts by Trump's lawyer, the National Enquirer, and its CEO David Pecker, to cover it up
Indeed, Cohen told me initially when I first spoke to him that the person in the photographs was not Donald Trump, but "another New York businessman who looks like Trump." Cohen further said, "The photos are not of Mr. Trump. They were of another pubic figure other than Mr. Trump.""And then Billy Bush made trump sign the woman’s breasts." fake
...
Yet, very much later during the same conversation, Cohen did concede that the photographs were indeed of Donald Trump...Cohen said the woman bared her breasts with no advance warning, and that someone else put a pen in Trump’s hand to sign the woman’s breasts, also without warning.
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 7:00 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I just skimmed the story, but some woman had Trump autograph her breasts? So what? Did he make her do it against her will?
posted by ctmf at 7:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 7:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah. Because he's a spy. CIA man through and through.
And somehow, Trump's the only guy who gets knocked as the product of an intelligence operation.
posted by indubitable at 7:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
And somehow, Trump's the only guy who gets knocked as the product of an intelligence operation.
posted by indubitable at 7:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I marginally would prefer someone who knows they're a spook over someone who is too stupid to realize they're being used as an unwitting asset.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
Trump's the only guy who gets knocked as the product of an intelligence operation.
I'm sorry, but I have trouble with putting "Trump" and "intelligence" in the same sentence. Try "counter-intelligence".
(It was 41 years ago on the debut of SNL that George Carlin gave the first two classic examples of Oxymorons... "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence". Times were so much simpler then.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry, but I have trouble with putting "Trump" and "intelligence" in the same sentence. Try "counter-intelligence".
(It was 41 years ago on the debut of SNL that George Carlin gave the first two classic examples of Oxymorons... "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence". Times were so much simpler then.)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:19 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, I just read "intelligence operation" in the same way one might read "appendix operation".
posted by nat at 7:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by nat at 7:21 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not brain surgery.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:24 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, my take on McMullin is that while Trump was doing a bit better in the polls the deep state sent him to snipe a few EVs with the LDS assist and help reestablish control over the GOP...
I say this to my friend and he, having read the 538 article on McMullin says, "so the CIA's trying for a coup in the house?" and I laughed, "no, they'll get along just great with Hillary." (I then informed my friend that Sam Wang is the real Nate Silver.)
two classic examples of Oxymorons... "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence"
CIA isn't military intelligence though. They're greasier than that.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I say this to my friend and he, having read the 538 article on McMullin says, "so the CIA's trying for a coup in the house?" and I laughed, "no, they'll get along just great with Hillary." (I then informed my friend that Sam Wang is the real Nate Silver.)
two classic examples of Oxymorons... "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence"
CIA isn't military intelligence though. They're greasier than that.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not brain surgery.
Apparently that's Carson's job. Which just scares the crap out of me now.
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Apparently that's Carson's job. Which just scares the crap out of me now.
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
By all accounts he is a brilliant neurosurgeon. I'd let him operate on my brain. I wouldn't let him do literally anything else for me.
posted by Justinian at 7:34 PM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:34 PM on October 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm thrilled that wikileaks released all this during the campaign.... That is a good thing because it might prevent Clinton from appointing, or the GOP from approving, certain important but really problematic people...I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Clintons are (1) notoriously loyal and (2) do not give a shit about the appearance of impropriety.
(1) is certainly true, but the Podesta emails suggest (2) is much less so. Dozens of those emails are concerned explicitly and unapologetically with political appearance, and many of them (eg, the Goldman Sachs emails) are explicitly worrying about the appearance of impropriety. Major decisions are made in response to external pressure (eg, the email exhorting Clinton to disavow TPP or lose various unions, or the one arguing against Bill doing a paid speech three days after the HRC campaign kickoff). These people are unapologetic realists -- they react to external political pressures and appearances, and make no bones about it. Which is what many people praise them for! But it does mean they are quite amenable to political pressure.
One of the sad things about this ridiculous and terrifying campaign season is that the Podesta emails have been almost entirely eclipsed by the Trump BS, including the idiotic email server business which happens to share the word "email" and thus leads many on the left to ignore the Podesta emails as more of the same. But the Podesta emails are actually some of the most important leaks to emerge in modern Washington -- not because they reveal any great impropriety, but because they show how a modern mainstream political campaign navigates the treacherous waters of Washington politics. They are a gold mine for those already strategizing about how to pressure the Clinton administration into the doing the right things, and it's a shame that they have gotten only glimmers of discussion here and elsewhere amid the torrent of crap coming from Trump. Hopefully once this is over -- but before the Clinton hiring and policy pillars have solidified -- we might have a little more time to delve into these things in a stand-alone discussion, without getting drawn into electoral accusations that such things are pro-Trump or relitigating the primaries.
posted by chortly at 7:44 PM on October 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
I just skimmed the story, but some woman had Trump autograph her breasts? So what? Did he make her do it against her will?
Yeah I don't care a whole lot, other than the fact that having it out there during the primaries might have moved the "how Trump treats women" conversation to an earlier stage. The bigger issue is the role of his lawyer and the National Enquirer later. The Enquirer, as noted in the story, ran all sorts of increasingly crazed rumors about everyone but Trump (claiming Ted Cruz had five affairs, attacking Heidi Cruz over having depression, Rubio fathering a "love child", Hillary Clinton having a a variety of serious medical conditions at once), yet has been rather uninterested in digging up any dirt on Trump, who has quite the past to mine through. Waas's report has people at the Enquirer attributing the source of some of these stories to Roger Stone and others from the Trump campaign.
The Enquirer's role in the primaries was something that was discussed well before this story came out. Trump personally brought it up a few times, citing the tabloid for the utterly unproven link between Cruz's father and the Kennedy assassination and questioning why they never received a Pulitzer Prize for their John Edwards stories. The other day, Salma Hayek said Trump once planted a story about her in the National Enquirer because she wouldn't go out with him.
Having a major Presidential candidate use the National Enquirer, of all publications, as a political tool is a significant matter.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yeah I don't care a whole lot, other than the fact that having it out there during the primaries might have moved the "how Trump treats women" conversation to an earlier stage. The bigger issue is the role of his lawyer and the National Enquirer later. The Enquirer, as noted in the story, ran all sorts of increasingly crazed rumors about everyone but Trump (claiming Ted Cruz had five affairs, attacking Heidi Cruz over having depression, Rubio fathering a "love child", Hillary Clinton having a a variety of serious medical conditions at once), yet has been rather uninterested in digging up any dirt on Trump, who has quite the past to mine through. Waas's report has people at the Enquirer attributing the source of some of these stories to Roger Stone and others from the Trump campaign.
The Enquirer's role in the primaries was something that was discussed well before this story came out. Trump personally brought it up a few times, citing the tabloid for the utterly unproven link between Cruz's father and the Kennedy assassination and questioning why they never received a Pulitzer Prize for their John Edwards stories. The other day, Salma Hayek said Trump once planted a story about her in the National Enquirer because she wouldn't go out with him.
Having a major Presidential candidate use the National Enquirer, of all publications, as a political tool is a significant matter.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I must be older and more cynical than I thought because the Podesta emails don't elicit more than a shrug from me. That's how I always thought the sausage was made. A good candidate and campaign is in part a major marketing product. The Podesta emails sort of reassure me that the campaign is very competent - both in terms of what was discussed and in terms of what they ultimately decided to do publicly.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:52 PM on October 23, 2016 [63 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:52 PM on October 23, 2016 [63 favorites]
Dishonest Donnie reportedly has a longtime friendship with the publisher of the Enquirer and was "off limits" to their scandal machine well before he started running. Which has a lot to with his appeal to a certain segment of the Deplorables (and a lot of the "not deplorable, just dumb").
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:55 PM on October 23, 2016
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:55 PM on October 23, 2016
chortly is right. Decades from now, political historians will be mining the Podesta emails for insights into what it was like to be an elite politicial team in the USA in the mid-teens. They're not scandalous, but they are a trove for strategists, journalists, historians, political scientists, anthropologists, even novelists. They offer a closer look at the sausage-making process than the public often gets, and even though they pretty much just confirm everyone's assumptions they are still of great interest.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I must be older and more cynical than I thought because the Podesta emails don't elicit more than a shrug from me. That's how I always thought the sausage was made.
It turns out that there are actually a lot of ways to make sausage. For those engaged in Washington politics, it's not the fact that sausage-making exists that is interesting, but how Podesta et al specifically go about it -- what sort of pressures and constituencies they respond to, what motivates them internally vs externally, how they decide to respond or draw the line, etc. Washington insiders care about this stuff not (just) because it's gossip, but because what may look to many on the outside like just more sausage, is actually a pretty elaborate system, the minute details of which can vary quite a lot between administrations, and which can affect the lives of millions. But it would probably be a waste to dive into all that here in the middle of thousands of posts, which is why I hoped there might be more time after things have cooled off in a few weeks.
posted by chortly at 8:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
It turns out that there are actually a lot of ways to make sausage. For those engaged in Washington politics, it's not the fact that sausage-making exists that is interesting, but how Podesta et al specifically go about it -- what sort of pressures and constituencies they respond to, what motivates them internally vs externally, how they decide to respond or draw the line, etc. Washington insiders care about this stuff not (just) because it's gossip, but because what may look to many on the outside like just more sausage, is actually a pretty elaborate system, the minute details of which can vary quite a lot between administrations, and which can affect the lives of millions. But it would probably be a waste to dive into all that here in the middle of thousands of posts, which is why I hoped there might be more time after things have cooled off in a few weeks.
posted by chortly at 8:03 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
They are a gold mine for those already strategizing about how to pressure the Clinton administration into the doing the right things, and it's a shame that they have gotten only glimmers of discussion here and elsewhere amid the torrent of crap coming from Trump.We shouldn't avoid discussing them. They're out there and it would be ridiculous to pretend that they don't exist. But referring to the mass dump of a person's private correspondence before they're dead as a "gold mine" feels incredibly gross to me. Transparency is one thing, but it feels wrong to violate a person's privacy and then use the fruits of that violation as a tool to force them to take certain actions for your own benefit. Hillary might have been able to start off on solid ground with progressives if not for this email leak; now the relationship will begin with more contentiousness than may have been necessary.
posted by xyzzy at 8:04 PM on October 23, 2016 [33 favorites]
Or don't you know about the ugly celebrating when Reagan took the solar panels off the White House because it pleased the oil interests?
these were those dodgy 1970s solar water heaters actually . . .
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
these were those dodgy 1970s solar water heaters actually . . .
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:10 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thanks for that comment Heywood, it led me to research and I found this interesting piece about what happened to the panels themselves. And also this tidbit:
By 1986, the Reagan administration had gutted the research and development budgets for renewable energy at the then-fledgling U.S. Department of Energy (DoE) and eliminated tax breaks for the deployment of wind turbines and solar technologies—recommitting the nation to reliance on cheap but polluting fossil fuels, often from foreign suppliers.
...And in 1986 the Reagan administration quietly dismantled the White House solar panel installation while resurfacing the roof. "Hey! That system is working. Why don't you keep it?" recalls mechanical engineer Fred Morse, now of Abengoa Solar, who helped install the original solar panels as director of the solar energy program during the Carter years and then watched as they were dismantled during his tenure in the same job under Reagan. "Hey! This whole [renewable] R&D program is working, why don't you keep it?"
I feel pretty safe in saying that the panels coming down were part of a larger signal to oil/coal interests and a middle finger to the hippies. Not like there wasn't a lot of other anti-environmentalist sentiment at the time.
posted by emjaybee at 8:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
By 1986, the Reagan administration had gutted the research and development budgets for renewable energy at the then-fledgling U.S. Department of Energy (DoE) and eliminated tax breaks for the deployment of wind turbines and solar technologies—recommitting the nation to reliance on cheap but polluting fossil fuels, often from foreign suppliers.
...And in 1986 the Reagan administration quietly dismantled the White House solar panel installation while resurfacing the roof. "Hey! That system is working. Why don't you keep it?" recalls mechanical engineer Fred Morse, now of Abengoa Solar, who helped install the original solar panels as director of the solar energy program during the Carter years and then watched as they were dismantled during his tenure in the same job under Reagan. "Hey! This whole [renewable] R&D program is working, why don't you keep it?"
I feel pretty safe in saying that the panels coming down were part of a larger signal to oil/coal interests and a middle finger to the hippies. Not like there wasn't a lot of other anti-environmentalist sentiment at the time.
posted by emjaybee at 8:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
It will probably be a private and luxurious asylum. His "cell" will be a room full of mirrors. He'll think he's died and gone to heaven.
Holy shit the US election is a re-telling of Le Balcon and Trump is playing the role of The Chief of Police.
posted by um at 8:18 PM on October 23, 2016
Holy shit the US election is a re-telling of Le Balcon and Trump is playing the role of The Chief of Police.
posted by um at 8:18 PM on October 23, 2016
Our current concentration in cities is making things unsustainable and leading to property bubble after bubble; spreading out more can help with that, especially with how huge our country actually is.
On a GDP per infrastructure $ basis the density of cities can't be beat.
But the bubble aspect is simply real estate *always* being bid up to the point of pain and beyond, since it generally only goes up, up, up.
The real estate bubble of the previous decade washed over this land from Santa Barbara to Ft Lauderdale and all points in between -- other than Texas since having been burned by the S&L Crisis they actually and actively prevented the primary mechanism of fraud, easy cash-out home refinancing.
But there's no reason we can't have gleaming supercities in every area code. The main stupidity is thinking investment is limited by available capital, but the Fed pushed $3.6T worth of new chips into the casino 2009-2013 and they can do it again whenever they want / are forced to.
What are the actual hard limits on the economy is the really interesting question. Construction labor?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS
Copper?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCOPPUSDM
This is a prison planet run by pea-brains.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
On a GDP per infrastructure $ basis the density of cities can't be beat.
But the bubble aspect is simply real estate *always* being bid up to the point of pain and beyond, since it generally only goes up, up, up.
The real estate bubble of the previous decade washed over this land from Santa Barbara to Ft Lauderdale and all points in between -- other than Texas since having been burned by the S&L Crisis they actually and actively prevented the primary mechanism of fraud, easy cash-out home refinancing.
But there's no reason we can't have gleaming supercities in every area code. The main stupidity is thinking investment is limited by available capital, but the Fed pushed $3.6T worth of new chips into the casino 2009-2013 and they can do it again whenever they want / are forced to.
What are the actual hard limits on the economy is the really interesting question. Construction labor?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS
Copper?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCOPPUSDM
This is a prison planet run by pea-brains.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:20 PM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
But referring to the mass dump of a person's private correspondence before they're dead as a "gold mine" feels incredibly gross to me.
I personally believe that, like various types of campaign spending, much of campaign-related work (including emails) should be subject to public transparency in the same way other aspects of government are subject to FOIA. If there are personal emails in there, then of course they should be redacted or (assuming wikileaks lacks the ethics to do it themselves) ignored. But leaks of essential government documents -- the pentagon papers, NSA docs, etc -- are morally different from exposing personal matters. We will of course all argue about the proper bounds of FOIA and related transparency issues, mostly regarding the duration of embargoes for different categories of communication, but I don't think there is anything especially unethical about rejoicing in leaked government information, particularly information that one believes should be public. If I were writing FOIA law, I would certainly allow campaign emails to be embargoed at least until after the campaign is over for obvious reasons, but other than that slight violation that by all accounts will not affect this election one iota, I think it's ok to celebrate the appearance of information like this that is so potentially invaluable for civil society.
But the fact that this discussion is coextensive with at least three totally unrelated conversations shows how impossible it is to have this particular discussion in a general election thread.
posted by chortly at 8:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I personally believe that, like various types of campaign spending, much of campaign-related work (including emails) should be subject to public transparency in the same way other aspects of government are subject to FOIA. If there are personal emails in there, then of course they should be redacted or (assuming wikileaks lacks the ethics to do it themselves) ignored. But leaks of essential government documents -- the pentagon papers, NSA docs, etc -- are morally different from exposing personal matters. We will of course all argue about the proper bounds of FOIA and related transparency issues, mostly regarding the duration of embargoes for different categories of communication, but I don't think there is anything especially unethical about rejoicing in leaked government information, particularly information that one believes should be public. If I were writing FOIA law, I would certainly allow campaign emails to be embargoed at least until after the campaign is over for obvious reasons, but other than that slight violation that by all accounts will not affect this election one iota, I think it's ok to celebrate the appearance of information like this that is so potentially invaluable for civil society.
But the fact that this discussion is coextensive with at least three totally unrelated conversations shows how impossible it is to have this particular discussion in a general election thread.
posted by chortly at 8:22 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
@AdamSmith_usa:
That awkward moment when Russian state media reports on a new Wikileaks dump 30 minutes before Wikileaks releases itposted by salix at 8:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [64 favorites]
According to responses, the dump went up on the WL site over a half hour before the official tweet, but I'm not sure how to verify that.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:33 PM on October 23, 2016
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:33 PM on October 23, 2016
Reading the most recent Nate Silver piece... If Reno is +10 Hill Dawg in early voting, wait. I mean, this is one of those big cities that always vote R, and they're counting the entire County and not just the metro-area...
Clinton plus ten? Based on ballots actually cast?
Oshit.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:33 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Clinton plus ten? Based on ballots actually cast?
Oshit.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:33 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it seems like this is not so much "leaked government information" as it is "foreign intelligence operation," which, really, not so much rejoicing over here, tbh.
posted by dersins at 8:34 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by dersins at 8:34 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Of import on the emails, it turns out some can be verified unaltered as the raw messages contain the DKIM anti-spam/anti-phishing signatures. They're not quite meant for this usage so failure to verify doesn't mean there was malicious alteration, but some can be shown real assuming no one's broken asymmetric encryption...
I've only seen one e-mail specifically denied. When Donna Brazile got got giving the primary debate question to Hillary, she claimed alteration after babbling about the persecution of Christians. That one verifies.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've only seen one e-mail specifically denied. When Donna Brazile got got giving the primary debate question to Hillary, she claimed alteration after babbling about the persecution of Christians. That one verifies.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Guys? At this stage of the game, Wikileaks could oppo-drop that HRC drinks the blood of babies, and she'd still poll higher. We understand they're jew-hating Tsarist mouthpieces. The entirety of the Trump campaign on social media is a smorgasbord of worn out conspiracy theory tropes and a variety of goldbuggery scams.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:40 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
the panels coming down were part of a larger signal to oil/coal interests and a middle finger to the hippies
FWIW, I was fourteen in 1980 and accurately understood this, and basically every aspect of the Reagan administration, as a middle finger directed at me, personally. Fuck that shithead and his legacy.
posted by mwhybark at 8:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
FWIW, I was fourteen in 1980 and accurately understood this, and basically every aspect of the Reagan administration, as a middle finger directed at me, personally. Fuck that shithead and his legacy.
posted by mwhybark at 8:46 PM on October 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
Yeah, it seems like this is not so much "leaked government information" as it is "foreign intelligence operation," which, really, not so much rejoicing over here, tbh.
If it turns out Ellsberg was a double agent after all, it wouldn't change my view of the value of the pentagon papers. Appreciating information is separate from rejoicing over the specific origin of that information. It doesn't make us Reds to appreciate the knowledge.
posted by chortly at 8:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
If it turns out Ellsberg was a double agent after all, it wouldn't change my view of the value of the pentagon papers. Appreciating information is separate from rejoicing over the specific origin of that information. It doesn't make us Reds to appreciate the knowledge.
posted by chortly at 8:49 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think the Dems come very close to carrying the House and Clinton gets more EVs than Obama 08. They may even carry it with her ground game and depressed GOP turnout.
posted by persona au gratin at 8:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 8:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
If it turns out Ellsberg was a double agent after all, it wouldn't change my view of the value of the pentagon papers. Appreciating information is separate from rejoicing over the specific origin of that information. It doesn't make us Reds to appreciate the knowledge.
I mean, sure, great congrats on not being a "Red," except also there's this whole assess the reliability and bias of your sources thing.
posted by dersins at 9:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I mean, sure, great congrats on not being a "Red," except also there's this whole assess the reliability and bias of your sources thing.
posted by dersins at 9:11 PM on October 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Guys? At this stage of the game, Wikileaks could oppo-drop that HRC drinks the blood of babies, and she'd still poll higher.
The GOP have spent so much time spouting ridiculousness that all kinds of bad truths about Hillary could strut around naked shouting "Look at me!" and go completely unnoticed by any but their party faithful at this point.
posted by srboisvert at 9:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
The GOP have spent so much time spouting ridiculousness that all kinds of bad truths about Hillary could strut around naked shouting "Look at me!" and go completely unnoticed by any but their party faithful at this point.
posted by srboisvert at 9:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've only seen one e-mail specifically denied. When Donna Brazile got got giving the primary debate question to Hillary, she claimed alteration after babbling about the persecution of Christians. That one verifies.
The Clinton campaign hasn't been verifying or denying any specific emails, and really how could they? Wikileaks is releasing several thousand emails every 2-3 days. There is no way anyone could go through each one, check it against the original (if that even still exists) and verify or disprove accuracy.
And that of course is precisely as wikileaks has planned it. Why else hold back release until right before the election, instead of releasing them all at once a month ago?
posted by msalt at 9:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
The Clinton campaign hasn't been verifying or denying any specific emails, and really how could they? Wikileaks is releasing several thousand emails every 2-3 days. There is no way anyone could go through each one, check it against the original (if that even still exists) and verify or disprove accuracy.
And that of course is precisely as wikileaks has planned it. Why else hold back release until right before the election, instead of releasing them all at once a month ago?
posted by msalt at 9:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Tonight's heading for the election from John Oliver: "I honestly don't even know if I can make it another two-and-a-half weeks I've been drinking a lot and lashing out and frankly my family is worried 2016."
Oliver with regard to the Al Smith dinner: "Henry Kissinger thought Trump bombed horrifically, and Henry Kissinger is pretty much the world's leading authority on horrific bombings."
"Of course he wants an Emmy. It's a woman, it's gold, and it's proportionate to his tiny hands [photoshopped image of a tiny hand in a sleeve with french cuffs grabbing an Emmy]. It's basically Trump's ideal mate."
Oliver proposes a bet where he bets his Emmy award ("you don't even have to take her furniture shopping") on the outcome of the election. Oliver bets on a Trump win and Trump bets on a Trump loss, so "if you lose, you still win," thus ensuring a proper concession speech from Trump.
The main story is on drugs and opioid addiction.
posted by zachlipton at 9:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Oliver with regard to the Al Smith dinner: "Henry Kissinger thought Trump bombed horrifically, and Henry Kissinger is pretty much the world's leading authority on horrific bombings."
"Of course he wants an Emmy. It's a woman, it's gold, and it's proportionate to his tiny hands [photoshopped image of a tiny hand in a sleeve with french cuffs grabbing an Emmy]. It's basically Trump's ideal mate."
Oliver proposes a bet where he bets his Emmy award ("you don't even have to take her furniture shopping") on the outcome of the election. Oliver bets on a Trump win and Trump bets on a Trump loss, so "if you lose, you still win," thus ensuring a proper concession speech from Trump.
The main story is on drugs and opioid addiction.
posted by zachlipton at 9:28 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Clinton campaign hasn't been verifying or denying any specific emails, and really how could they?
That's what I meant I've only seen one denied. The only one the DNC Chair said was fake checked out cryptographically as real. Gonna need another new interim chair...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's what I meant I've only seen one denied. The only one the DNC Chair said was fake checked out cryptographically as real. Gonna need another new interim chair...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
In Naples, Trump revived a primary season greatest hit: The John Kerry Bike Crash.
This was also a Metafilter greatest hit. It was here that I learned the John Kerry is a seriously bad-ass cyclist.
posted by srboisvert at 9:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
This was also a Metafilter greatest hit. It was here that I learned the John Kerry is a seriously bad-ass cyclist.
posted by srboisvert at 9:56 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am disturbed to report that Conway says Trump would and should do another debate with Clinton.
Perhaps they just have an even more ridiculous lineup of special guests ready and are disappointed they can't use them?
posted by zachlipton at 10:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Perhaps they just have an even more ridiculous lineup of special guests ready and are disappointed they can't use them?
posted by zachlipton at 10:02 PM on October 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
I am disturbed to report that Conway says Trump would and should do another debate with Clinton.
Well, obviously Trump forgot to shout the magic word 'BENGHAZI' during any of the previous debates. I think he actually planned on doing that in the 3rd debate, but he was too distracted by the microphone in front of his face. If you get Hillary to say 'BENGHAZI' backwards, she has to reveal her real form!
posted by airish at 10:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Well, obviously Trump forgot to shout the magic word 'BENGHAZI' during any of the previous debates. I think he actually planned on doing that in the 3rd debate, but he was too distracted by the microphone in front of his face. If you get Hillary to say 'BENGHAZI' backwards, she has to reveal her real form!
posted by airish at 10:07 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I am disturbed to report that Conway says Trump would and should do another debate with Clinton.
NO. Just no. I didn't even survive the other three, this is just a recording from a dried out husk of a political junkie. And, what are they going for, best 5 out of 7? Would it help if we pointed out he will lose those debates, too?
posted by dawg-proud at 10:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
NO. Just no. I didn't even survive the other three, this is just a recording from a dried out husk of a political junkie. And, what are they going for, best 5 out of 7? Would it help if we pointed out he will lose those debates, too?
posted by dawg-proud at 10:08 PM on October 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
"WHY WON'T HILLARY DEBATE GOD EMPEROR TRUMP AGAIN?" Right wing reddit erupts.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:12 PM on October 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I mean, sure, great congrats on not being a "Red," except also there's this whole assess the reliability and bias of your sources thing.
This "thing" perhaps needs a bit more spelling out. If the emails are false or riddled with modifications, then yeah, all of us who are interested in the info should be wary. But as others have pointed out, so far there has been very little denial of their veracity, and if nothing else, the Clinton team plays by Washington rules, where (with the possible exception of classified info), a non-denial is taken as tacit verification. Sure, maybe they've decided to rewrite the entire standard operating procedure in the DC government/media world, but given everything thing we know about them, that's unlikely, and they certainly know that non-denial will be taken by everyone else in Washington as tacit acceptance, particularly since the disproof of any especially noteworthy email would be fairly straightforward (release the true, unmodified email; many of these had multiple recipients who could corroborate each others' stories). So for the time being, it seems fairly safe to go with the position of the vast majority of the Washington establishment (including, tacitly, most professional Democrats) and accept that most if not all of these emails are real.
And while it's certainly plausible that the hackers who released them had nefarious motives, it's not clear to me how that affects the inferences we draw from the info about how the Clinton campaign worked, how their administration may work, and how we might use that info to nudge the administration further towards social justice. Regardless of the hackers' motivations, I really doubt that using the Podesta emails to nudge the Clinton administration a few microns leftward after they are elected is playing right into the hands of Russia or Wikileaks.
posted by chortly at 10:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
This "thing" perhaps needs a bit more spelling out. If the emails are false or riddled with modifications, then yeah, all of us who are interested in the info should be wary. But as others have pointed out, so far there has been very little denial of their veracity, and if nothing else, the Clinton team plays by Washington rules, where (with the possible exception of classified info), a non-denial is taken as tacit verification. Sure, maybe they've decided to rewrite the entire standard operating procedure in the DC government/media world, but given everything thing we know about them, that's unlikely, and they certainly know that non-denial will be taken by everyone else in Washington as tacit acceptance, particularly since the disproof of any especially noteworthy email would be fairly straightforward (release the true, unmodified email; many of these had multiple recipients who could corroborate each others' stories). So for the time being, it seems fairly safe to go with the position of the vast majority of the Washington establishment (including, tacitly, most professional Democrats) and accept that most if not all of these emails are real.
And while it's certainly plausible that the hackers who released them had nefarious motives, it's not clear to me how that affects the inferences we draw from the info about how the Clinton campaign worked, how their administration may work, and how we might use that info to nudge the administration further towards social justice. Regardless of the hackers' motivations, I really doubt that using the Podesta emails to nudge the Clinton administration a few microns leftward after they are elected is playing right into the hands of Russia or Wikileaks.
posted by chortly at 10:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I voted today, dropped the ballot into one of Island County's drop boxes. Pretty much straight D (phrasing!), though I followed the Stranger's advice on the Superintendent of Public Schools--less religious whack-jobs in office is more important than the letter after their name. (Sad!)
And, yes, in Washington state sensible voting is very much "fuck Tim Eyman." I am a proud member of that cadre.
posted by maxwelton at 10:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
And, yes, in Washington state sensible voting is very much "fuck Tim Eyman." I am a proud member of that cadre.
posted by maxwelton at 10:16 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
This talk of saying Benghazi backwards reminds me of the best precedent we have for the Trump campaign: the character Jimmy James from TV's Newsradio, except that Jimmy James didn't sexually assault anyone during the show.
Someone has already made that case in this video, and there's this tweet: "Every Trump speech reminds me of Jimmy James reading his autobiography."
For the alternate history version of this election, you can watch S3E2: President in which James, well, attempts to run for President.
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Someone has already made that case in this video, and there's this tweet: "Every Trump speech reminds me of Jimmy James reading his autobiography."
For the alternate history version of this election, you can watch S3E2: President in which James, well, attempts to run for President.
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 PM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
@HillaryClinton vs. @realDonaldTrump
A comparison of the words unique to the candidates on Twitter.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:18 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
A comparison of the words unique to the candidates on Twitter.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:18 PM on October 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Every Trump speech reminds me of Jimmy James reading his autobiography."
I actually thought of this scene after the last debate when Trump did that "Aleppo is a fallen city" ramble.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I actually thought of this scene after the last debate when Trump did that "Aleppo is a fallen city" ramble.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am disturbed to report that Conway says Trump would and should do another debate with Clinton.
"And this time with Alex Jones as moderator!" [fake]
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
"And this time with Alex Jones as moderator!" [fake]
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:37 PM on October 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Regardless of the hackers' motivations, I really doubt that using the Podesta emails to nudge the Clinton administration a few microns leftward after they are elected is playing right into the hands of Russia or Wikileaks.That's not the point. The point is that fear of spying or exposure, even of non-nefarious activities, has a chilling effect on communication and work. A dumb idea shared with three colleagues and rebuked for being impolitic or unethical is just a minor work embarrassment; now take that same idea and expose it to millions. If you can't see how fear of leaks stifles creativity and openness, I don't know what to tell you.
posted by xyzzy at 10:38 PM on October 23, 2016 [80 favorites]
If you can't see how fear of leaks stifles creativity and openness, I don't know what to tell you.
Sometimes transparency is more important than protecting creativity and privacy in the workplace. These were the standard arguments against FOIA and its many predecessors -- that transparency stifles deal-making and creativity. Broadly speaking, over the last century or so, most democracies have gradually decided that it is better for the citizens to know increasingly more of what is going on behind the scenes, even if that costs a certain amount of freedom and discomfort by the elected. If nothing else, the latter, if they want complete privacy, can just decide to take non-governmental work. (And of course no one is arguing against privacy for personal stuff, just work stuff.) We've collectively decided that democracy requires transparency, even though that transparency has the costs you enumerate.
Leaks are somewhat, but not entirely, different. Leaks like Snowden, Ellsberg, Manning, and whistleblowers more generally have of course been debated for decades, but generally the left at least has supported transparency over protecting the work privacy of the folks who choose to work in government. The reason is not that we don't care about their comfort, but because with many of these issues (Vietnam, Iraq, NSA, etc), millions of lives are at stake, which far outweigh the privacy of the work being revealed. Presumably we disagree about whether presidential campaign work counts as sufficiently important to require transparency; I've stated above that, like campaign finance, campaign activities are sufficiently important that the public deserves to know what's going on, at least after the fact. But regardless of that disagreement, the general argument -- "fear of spying or exposure, even of non-nefarious activities, has a chilling effect on communication and work" -- is not sufficient on its own, since that is a general argument against all transparency. Yes, freedom of information and leaks have a chilling effect. The question is whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Most of us tend to believe so for FOIA, the pentagon papers, and possibly for Snowden, Manning and other whistleblowers. And like many others, I personally feel that work emails related to important matters of state, including campaigns, should be included in this, and am prepared to pay the cost of "stifling" in order to get the benefit of transparency. But again, agree or not, we all most certainly understand the costs, since those arguments have been the standard ones against transparency for decades now.
posted by chortly at 11:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sometimes transparency is more important than protecting creativity and privacy in the workplace. These were the standard arguments against FOIA and its many predecessors -- that transparency stifles deal-making and creativity. Broadly speaking, over the last century or so, most democracies have gradually decided that it is better for the citizens to know increasingly more of what is going on behind the scenes, even if that costs a certain amount of freedom and discomfort by the elected. If nothing else, the latter, if they want complete privacy, can just decide to take non-governmental work. (And of course no one is arguing against privacy for personal stuff, just work stuff.) We've collectively decided that democracy requires transparency, even though that transparency has the costs you enumerate.
Leaks are somewhat, but not entirely, different. Leaks like Snowden, Ellsberg, Manning, and whistleblowers more generally have of course been debated for decades, but generally the left at least has supported transparency over protecting the work privacy of the folks who choose to work in government. The reason is not that we don't care about their comfort, but because with many of these issues (Vietnam, Iraq, NSA, etc), millions of lives are at stake, which far outweigh the privacy of the work being revealed. Presumably we disagree about whether presidential campaign work counts as sufficiently important to require transparency; I've stated above that, like campaign finance, campaign activities are sufficiently important that the public deserves to know what's going on, at least after the fact. But regardless of that disagreement, the general argument -- "fear of spying or exposure, even of non-nefarious activities, has a chilling effect on communication and work" -- is not sufficient on its own, since that is a general argument against all transparency. Yes, freedom of information and leaks have a chilling effect. The question is whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Most of us tend to believe so for FOIA, the pentagon papers, and possibly for Snowden, Manning and other whistleblowers. And like many others, I personally feel that work emails related to important matters of state, including campaigns, should be included in this, and am prepared to pay the cost of "stifling" in order to get the benefit of transparency. But again, agree or not, we all most certainly understand the costs, since those arguments have been the standard ones against transparency for decades now.
posted by chortly at 11:23 PM on October 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
I am disturbed to report that Conway says Trump would and should do another debate with Clinton.
I'm not. If you call for more debates, you're: a) losing; b) know you're losing; c) okay with everybody else knowing that you know you're losing, because it's now down to Hail Mary plays and deus ex machina stuff.
Hillary just has say "Sorry, all booked up for the next two weeks getting people out to vote. You keep doing the rallies."
posted by holgate at 11:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
I'm not. If you call for more debates, you're: a) losing; b) know you're losing; c) okay with everybody else knowing that you know you're losing, because it's now down to Hail Mary plays and deus ex machina stuff.
Hillary just has say "Sorry, all booked up for the next two weeks getting people out to vote. You keep doing the rallies."
posted by holgate at 11:30 PM on October 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
If nothing else, the latter, if they want complete privacy, can just decide to take non-governmental work.Remember the Sony hack? It worked. They caved to external pressure and changed their plans to release a stupid comedy to movie theatres. Remember how Wikileaks helped set back climate science buy-in by governments and the public by years because laymen didn't understand what was going on in those private emails?
I certainly expect people under FOIA to conduct themselves as if they were communicating in public at all times. But John Podesta's email account, whether you agree with this or not, was not under FOIA at the time he was composing, receiving, and sending those emails. Therefore, he and everyone else writing to him had a reasonable expectation of privacy.
If it matters, I am a huge proponent of government transparency and have rather aggressively angry feelings about the increasing efforts to classify ever more information. But it should be pretty clear that inane stuff can be twisted and used against people when taken out of context, and I don't like the idea of me or any other private citizen living in the technological equivalent of East Berlin where I always have to be concerned about someone "telling on me" because of my thought crimes.
posted by xyzzy at 11:55 PM on October 23, 2016 [102 favorites]
I think there are two important distinctions though. First, a lot of the information in the Podesta emails are the sort of things that wouldn't be disclosed through the FOIA laws we have now. The White House itself has generally been exempt from FOIA. You can't ask them for drafts of the State of the Union that were considered or lists of cabinet members and ambassadors that were rejected, yet the emails contain many such deliberative matters. Deliberative process is broad and often stretched to the limits to withhold information, but I do think it's pretty reasonable for a Presidential campaign to privately discuss and debate courses of action. So what you're proposing is not just to expand such laws to cover campaigns, which are the efforts of private citizens being paid with private money, but also to require campaigns to be much more transparent than Presidential administrations. While there are extremely good arguments to be made that the White House should be more transparent than it currently is, arguments I tend to support, opening up every deliberative matter is a big step, and I question how effective it would be, since it would likely just shift more such decisions to meetings and phone calls.
The other distinction is that the Podesta emails weren't leaked by a whistleblower; they were hacked. One of the constraints on any secretive effort to do evil has always been that someone on the inside could, no matter the consequences, become a whistleblower if they could not stand the harm being done by staying quiet. Leakers risked everything (including their lives in the case of treason charges) and worked with responsible journalists to inform the public, generally while minimizing harm by withholding or redacting sensitive or irrelevant information, because they felt it to be just and necessary to right a wrong. The Podesta emails are not, say, the Snowden documents. They were stolen and released in giant unredacted bundles not because anybody was blowing the whistle on any particular act of wrongdoing, but solely for the goal of allowing outside forces to try to influence the election.
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [90 favorites]
The other distinction is that the Podesta emails weren't leaked by a whistleblower; they were hacked. One of the constraints on any secretive effort to do evil has always been that someone on the inside could, no matter the consequences, become a whistleblower if they could not stand the harm being done by staying quiet. Leakers risked everything (including their lives in the case of treason charges) and worked with responsible journalists to inform the public, generally while minimizing harm by withholding or redacting sensitive or irrelevant information, because they felt it to be just and necessary to right a wrong. The Podesta emails are not, say, the Snowden documents. They were stolen and released in giant unredacted bundles not because anybody was blowing the whistle on any particular act of wrongdoing, but solely for the goal of allowing outside forces to try to influence the election.
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 PM on October 23, 2016 [90 favorites]
Well, I'd beter bow out at this point, but I'll just say that yes, I strongly support FOIA for the executive branch, which is far too non-transparent given its immense power; nor do I think leakers necessarily need to confess to be moral (most don't, including the zillions in anonymous Post and Times articles, DC books, etc); nor do I think it matters much if important info comes from someone on the inside or outside, or whether "hacking" makes a moral difference (Snowden hacked from the inside); nor does it particularly matter what "the goal" of the leaker was if the information truly belongs in the public sphere; nor does it matter if the stuff can be "twisted" by someone, or whether the ones who release it are badguys or not. The position is that information that belongs in the public domain should be in the public domain, and this includes (IMHO) executive deliberations and major campaign work. I of course don't think private stuff should be mixed in, and don't think that it should be released midcampaign, so this release is definitely as screwed up as anything from wikileaks. But my original post was just that, drawbacks notwithstanding, it's important and useful information, whose benefits may or may not outweigh the drawbacks, but in any case is worth discussing. But apparently the view here is that the moral position is to ignore the content, and I'm certainly not up to disputing that single-handedly.
posted by chortly at 12:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by chortly at 12:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
But apparently the view here is that the moral position is to ignore the content, and I'm certainly not up to disputing that single-handedly.I don't think the content can or should be ignored; I just took issue with the implicit assumption that leaks are always a moral good and that the outcome is necessarily a net-positive for the public.
posted by xyzzy at 12:34 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
for reference: the foia exemptions
posted by j_curiouser at 12:45 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by j_curiouser at 12:45 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
In a world where Deep Throat's leaks are still at the forefront of everyone's minds, and the USSR has just fallen at the end of the Cold war, that view isn't so ridiculous.
That the game has changed since the 90's shouldn't surprise anyone. Edward Snowden releasing classified information is one thing, but Russian Intelligence hacking the DNC's computers and strategically leaking that material makes it a whole other ballgame. Personally, Snowden's leaks, Trump's tax returns, and Clinton's emails in the same ideological category, but the reason for ignoring Clinton email drops isn't some idealogical privacy reason, but because the leaks have effectively cried "wolf!" one too many times.
posted by fragmede at 1:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
That the game has changed since the 90's shouldn't surprise anyone. Edward Snowden releasing classified information is one thing, but Russian Intelligence hacking the DNC's computers and strategically leaking that material makes it a whole other ballgame. Personally, Snowden's leaks, Trump's tax returns, and Clinton's emails in the same ideological category, but the reason for ignoring Clinton email drops isn't some idealogical privacy reason, but because the leaks have effectively cried "wolf!" one too many times.
posted by fragmede at 1:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
For me the problem is that no matter how you try to define it, unless you say there is no right for any private communication for people in or seeking government office, then there is always going to be some layer of communication that will be treated as inaccessible, and the rest will become effectively for show, if the demand to release remains constant.
It's the same as all the rest of the election cycle, events that were once not treated as germane to public understanding and allowed some freedom of communication are now open to public view and effectively treated as campaign events. Peel back one layer of emails and people will rely on a second layer, peel that back, a third, and on and on. Complete transparency is only available with complete surveillance. It's almost better to have random leaks or unexpected breaches of security since that at least provides some measure of validation that conversations believed to be private have followed reasonable protocols we'd expect from government officials. That isn't to say I support the hacking, just that looking for "real" transparency is always going to be something of a fool's errand I fear.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's the same as all the rest of the election cycle, events that were once not treated as germane to public understanding and allowed some freedom of communication are now open to public view and effectively treated as campaign events. Peel back one layer of emails and people will rely on a second layer, peel that back, a third, and on and on. Complete transparency is only available with complete surveillance. It's almost better to have random leaks or unexpected breaches of security since that at least provides some measure of validation that conversations believed to be private have followed reasonable protocols we'd expect from government officials. That isn't to say I support the hacking, just that looking for "real" transparency is always going to be something of a fool's errand I fear.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Iceland, the Pirate Party is ahead in the polls as they head towards Saturday's election.
posted by kyrademon at 2:31 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 2:31 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
@JesseFFerguson:
NEWS in IOWA...
HRC endorsed by former GOP Lt. Governor, frm GOP State Rep (x2), frm GOP state Senator
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/readers/2016/10/23/stand-up-bigotry-and-division/92414224/
posted by chris24 at 3:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
NEWS in IOWA...
HRC endorsed by former GOP Lt. Governor, frm GOP State Rep (x2), frm GOP state Senator
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/readers/2016/10/23/stand-up-bigotry-and-division/92414224/
posted by chris24 at 3:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've only seen one e-mail specifically denied. When Donna Brazile got got giving the primary debate question to Hillary, she claimed alteration after babbling about the persecution of Christians. That one verifies.
On "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" this week they claimed there was also a denial of an email where it says that John Podesta "was on 'some NPR comedy show'." Podesta was indeed on WWDTM.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
On "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" this week they claimed there was also a denial of an email where it says that John Podesta "was on 'some NPR comedy show'." Podesta was indeed on WWDTM.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Making campaign work public domain is taking PRIVATE non-government citizens information and forcing it public. You seem to forget that political parties are not government entities. There is no difference in your request than asking that your own emails be public record too.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 3:55 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by JakeEXTREME at 3:55 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
It just strikes me as kind of stupid to compare freedom of information laws to email hacking. I'm subject to freedom of information laws on my work email, but it's different from this in several ways. It's equally applied to everyone in my position. I'm not being singled out for freedom of information purposes as some sort of punishment for being an evil neoliberal hack who is insufficiently deferential to Vladimir Putin. That's not really what "freedom of information" means. I've always known that the public could get access to my email, which gave me a chance to make choices about how I used my work email. And finally, in the unlikely event that someone were to request access to my emails, they wouldn't just be granted full, unvetted access. They would have to pay for lawyers to go through my email and redact anything to which the public shouldn't have access, which in my case would be anything that would violate someone else's privacy. I think that freedom of information is valuable and important, but other things are also valuable and important, and freedom of information laws typically have to balance several competing values, rather than just saying "go ahead and dump everything on the internet."
So I could make a case for saying that political campaigns should be subject to freedom of information laws, but that seems completely separate from the merits of this particular hack.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:30 AM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
So I could make a case for saying that political campaigns should be subject to freedom of information laws, but that seems completely separate from the merits of this particular hack.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:30 AM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
The best part of the slow motion WikiLeaks train wreck is that it has been such a complete non-factor. Worse. It's been a net negative for Team R - there are four subreddits devoted to scouring each fresh batch, and all the little centipedes capslock their nothing-burger "finds" at each other at a rate of two or three a day. So now the republicans all look like unhinged and desperate conspiracy theory fans, and the old line Eisenhower R's and the center right undecideds get to see the emperor garbed in the finest imaginary clothes.
I don't think a state sponsored hack will be used like this again. Russia is screwed, Clinton is no joke as a diplomat and ruthless as a politician. They'll get a little taste of the North Korean life for their troubles, and it may last a decade if Putin doesn't decide to spend more time not wearing a shirt in retirement.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:36 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't think a state sponsored hack will be used like this again. Russia is screwed, Clinton is no joke as a diplomat and ruthless as a politician. They'll get a little taste of the North Korean life for their troubles, and it may last a decade if Putin doesn't decide to spend more time not wearing a shirt in retirement.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:36 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Fantastic episode of the fantastic investigative journalism podcast Reveal on voting technology and why it's essentially impossible to rig.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Today's @nytimes features a 2-page spread of all the people, places & things Trump has insulted on Twitter since declaring his candidacy
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
On November 8th, barring some astonishment, the people of the United States will, after two hundred and forty years, send a woman to the White House. The election of Hillary Clinton is an event that we will welcome for its immense historical importance, and greet with indescribable relief. It will be especially gratifying to have a woman as commander-in-chief after such a sickeningly sexist and racist campaign, one that exposed so starkly how far our society has to go. The vileness of her opponent’s rhetoric and his record has been so widely aired that we can only hope she will be able to use her office and her impressive resolve to battle prejudice wherever it may be found.The Choice: The New Yorker Endorses Hillary Clinton
posted by y2karl at 5:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
On "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" this week they claimed there was also a denial of an email where it says that John Podesta "was on 'some NPR comedy show'." Podesta was indeed on WWDTM.
Was joke. They said they denied "NPR comedy" was a thing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Was joke. They said they denied "NPR comedy" was a thing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
"And this time with Alex Jones as moderator!" [fake]
Sure. And Jon Stewart as the other moderator. Each moderator gets to ask follow up questions to the candidate's answers while the asking moderator and opposing candidate's mics are turned off.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:45 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sure. And Jon Stewart as the other moderator. Each moderator gets to ask follow up questions to the candidate's answers while the asking moderator and opposing candidate's mics are turned off.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:45 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I want to hear more from the Log Lady Republicans.
posted by Mocata at 5:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by Mocata at 5:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
My heart breaks for these people. Not because Hillary is a sure win. But to put so much on the line so recklessly and out of delusion is just, I'm not sure, it's the same depressing feeling I get walking through a casino in Vegas and seeing all the pensioners hitting the slot machine play button over and over.
Back in August when the trend lines were headed the other way and it looked like the election was going to be a coin-toss, my wife and I mused about the possibility of betting our life savings on Hillary. The way I see it, there are two outcomes to that: either we double our life savings, or we divest ourselves of the dollar position shortly before its value craters and the medium of exchange becomes ammunition and Hershey bars.
posted by Mayor West at 6:06 AM on October 24, 2016 [23 favorites]
Back in August when the trend lines were headed the other way and it looked like the election was going to be a coin-toss, my wife and I mused about the possibility of betting our life savings on Hillary. The way I see it, there are two outcomes to that: either we double our life savings, or we divest ourselves of the dollar position shortly before its value craters and the medium of exchange becomes ammunition and Hershey bars.
posted by Mayor West at 6:06 AM on October 24, 2016 [23 favorites]
I want to hear more from the Log Lady Republicans.
"We must create a national strategic garmonbozia reserve."
"Stop federal government agents coming into our Black Lodges!"
"The polls are not what they seem."
posted by jason_steakums at 6:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
"We must create a national strategic garmonbozia reserve."
"Stop federal government agents coming into our Black Lodges!"
"The polls are not what they seem."
posted by jason_steakums at 6:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
"Every Trump speech reminds me of Jimmy James reading his autobiography."
I would consider voting for him if he would change his campaign slogan to "Feel My Skills, Donkey Donkey Donkey Donkey Donkey".
posted by middleclasstool at 6:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
I would consider voting for him if he would change his campaign slogan to "Feel My Skills, Donkey Donkey Donkey Donkey Donkey".
posted by middleclasstool at 6:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
"But Donny had fancy plans, and pants to match."
posted by bibliowench at 6:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 6:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
On November 8th, barring some astonishment, the people of the United States will, after two hundred and forty years, send a woman to the White House.
The only feasible astonishment I can see is substantial numbers of Americans believing that Clinton is such a sure thing that they don't need to bother heading down to the polling place.
Remember Brexit, and get out and VOTE.
posted by flabdablet at 6:18 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
The only feasible astonishment I can see is substantial numbers of Americans believing that Clinton is such a sure thing that they don't need to bother heading down to the polling place.
Remember Brexit, and get out and VOTE.
posted by flabdablet at 6:18 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
I think a lot of people are going to vote because they really hate what Trump has come to stand for. A less socially repulsive Republican wouldn't have the same effect - but think about how many people really personally want to vote no on Trumpism. (I wish people would be as repulsed by American foreign policy, gotta admit.) People want to vote Trump down.
And there will be many people who will want to vote for the first woman president - that's been very important for people on mefi and while we're a bunch of weirdos we're not that weird.
I think this may not be as motivating an election as 2008, but it will be pretty close.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
And there will be many people who will want to vote for the first woman president - that's been very important for people on mefi and while we're a bunch of weirdos we're not that weird.
I think this may not be as motivating an election as 2008, but it will be pretty close.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Remember Brexit, and get out and VOTE.
[balloons and streamers released as i become the one billionth person to point out the difference between brexit and this election]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:25 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
[balloons and streamers released as i become the one billionth person to point out the difference between brexit and this election]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:25 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Remember Brexit, and get out and VOTE.
REMEMBER BREXIT AND GET OUT AND VOTE, MOFOS!
REMEMBER BREXIT AND GET OUT AND VOTE, MOFOS!
REMEMBER BREXIT AND GET OUT AND VOTE, MOFOS!
ftfy
posted by Devonian at 6:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
REMEMBER BREXIT AND GET OUT AND VOTE, MOFOS!
REMEMBER BREXIT AND GET OUT AND VOTE, MOFOS!
REMEMBER BREXIT AND GET OUT AND VOTE, MOFOS!
ftfy
posted by Devonian at 6:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
How about "Down ballots matter! Remember there is an empty chair on the Supreme Court right now and at least two more coming up soon, and get out and VOTE"
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
It's weird to me that when Bush II was in office and electronic ballot machines were just becoming a big thing, I remember hearing a lot about how insecure they were and how easy it would be for the Republicans to falsify their records. Indeed, there was some thought in 2004—never really substantiated—that this might have happened in Ohio. Now it's about 13 years later, we're using similar machines (in many cases the same ones, full of bugs and known, unpatched vulnerabilities) and we're all 100% certain that it would be impossible to manipulate the election because of the decentralized way that the machines are set up.
Which is it? Or, what's changed? Is it not the case that at least in a close election (unlike what this one looks like it's going to be) a little illegal fuckery with the machines in a few ultra-close counties might make all the difference? Was I just paying too much attention to Slashdot back in '03? I don't know enough of the details to know whether I was misinformed at the time or whether the fact that it's our candidate on top this time might be coloring our views, or both. Or maybe it's something else that I hadn't thought of. I've been chewing on this thought for a few days without coming up with an explanation that I can easily swallow.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [25 favorites]
Which is it? Or, what's changed? Is it not the case that at least in a close election (unlike what this one looks like it's going to be) a little illegal fuckery with the machines in a few ultra-close counties might make all the difference? Was I just paying too much attention to Slashdot back in '03? I don't know enough of the details to know whether I was misinformed at the time or whether the fact that it's our candidate on top this time might be coloring our views, or both. Or maybe it's something else that I hadn't thought of. I've been chewing on this thought for a few days without coming up with an explanation that I can easily swallow.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [25 favorites]
My limited and self selected canvassing experience is that people are still pretty fired up about voting. Like, visibly excited to push the button.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
(It's not the differences between Brexit and GE2016 that matter - it's the similarities)
posted by Devonian at 6:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 6:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
(It's not the differences between Brexit and GE2016 that matter - it's the similarities)
Okay, I'll play along. What are the similarities?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:31 AM on October 24, 2016
Okay, I'll play along. What are the similarities?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:31 AM on October 24, 2016
There's still significant risk with respect to voting machines. People don't seem to like hearing about it, though.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 6:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 6:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's not brain surgery.
Apparently that's Carson's job. Which just scares the crap out of me now.
Why? I wouldn't vote for him in a million years, but the skill set of thoughtful politician and neurosurgeon wouldn't necessarily overlap much. I'm sure there are plenty of surgeons (like anything else, especially in high-paying professions) whose politics you'd find unpleasant.
posted by aught at 6:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Apparently that's Carson's job. Which just scares the crap out of me now.
Why? I wouldn't vote for him in a million years, but the skill set of thoughtful politician and neurosurgeon wouldn't necessarily overlap much. I'm sure there are plenty of surgeons (like anything else, especially in high-paying professions) whose politics you'd find unpleasant.
posted by aught at 6:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Unless the margin of error in every one of the dozens of current polls is over 10% then it really isn't comparable, no.
I mean if everyone stayed home except for Jill Stein voters then we'd wind up with President Stein, too, but that is also not super likely because we have lots and lots of historical data about how people behave in American elections. It would be literally unprecedented for millions upon millions of Clinton voters, who have remained firm in their resolve for a couple of months now and have only been increasing in number, to suddenly decide to stay home while Trump voters were impacted not at all, and honestly can we just ban the word Brexit from this thread (while still obviously encouraging people to GOTV)?
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:34 AM on October 24, 2016
I mean if everyone stayed home except for Jill Stein voters then we'd wind up with President Stein, too, but that is also not super likely because we have lots and lots of historical data about how people behave in American elections. It would be literally unprecedented for millions upon millions of Clinton voters, who have remained firm in their resolve for a couple of months now and have only been increasing in number, to suddenly decide to stay home while Trump voters were impacted not at all, and honestly can we just ban the word Brexit from this thread (while still obviously encouraging people to GOTV)?
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:34 AM on October 24, 2016
I would say that the mobilization of xenophobic, anti-immigrant sentiment in service of a self-destructive, white nationalist, authoritarian cause would be a big similarity, Arsenio. Also, said white nationalist authoritarian cause's liberal use of flagrant lies, conspiracy mongering, and made-up statistics to misinform and misguide voters.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
But how does that affect the likelihood or accuracy of polls? Isn't the implicit argument: "remember Brexit and vote, because maybe the polls are wrong!" which is not right, as has been pointed out endlessly, and here I am, doing it again.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:36 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:36 AM on October 24, 2016
There were far fewer polls of Brexit, from far fewer polling companies, polling companies which are less sophisticated than US polling companies, for an event which was much less well-understood than a routine presidential election, and the Brexit polls were within the margin of error while Clinton's polls are not.
Based on every American presidential election we have polling data for, no candidate with a lead like Clinton's this far out from the election has lost, ever. And as far as I know the very notion of "people think their candidate will win so they stay home" is basically made-up - in fact the opposite tends to be true, people tend to like voting for perceived winners and not like voting for perceived losers.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
Based on every American presidential election we have polling data for, no candidate with a lead like Clinton's this far out from the election has lost, ever. And as far as I know the very notion of "people think their candidate will win so they stay home" is basically made-up - in fact the opposite tends to be true, people tend to like voting for perceived winners and not like voting for perceived losers.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
> @SteveSilberman: RE: Trump followers using the term "Lügenpresse." These Hitler comparisons are getting tired. EXCEPT THEY'RE ACTUALLY QUOTING HITLER.
Yes, and it's pretty clear that a substantial number of Trump supporters would be delighted to actually give the Nazi salute and shout "HEIL TRUMP!" if Der Trump demanded it. I deprecate leaping to Nazi comparisons in general, but I don't see any way to avoid it here. What an awful election season.
posted by languagehat at 6:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Yes, and it's pretty clear that a substantial number of Trump supporters would be delighted to actually give the Nazi salute and shout "HEIL TRUMP!" if Der Trump demanded it. I deprecate leaping to Nazi comparisons in general, but I don't see any way to avoid it here. What an awful election season.
posted by languagehat at 6:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
It's not just Carson's politics aught, it's his uninformedness, misinformedness, and adherence to some truly whacko conspiracy woo that makes the stuff coming out of the Trump campaign look downright plausible. Also he seems to have told a lot of howlers about his life story, which is just weird because it seems so unnecessary and they would reflect badly on him even if true. When combined with the fact that he always seems to act like he had a few too many Benadryl last night and is having a hard time waking all the way up, it gives the impression of a person who is really pretty disconnected from reality.
That is not what I would want in a brain surgeon—I would want someone alert, focused, and well-grounded in evidence-based thinking. I would find it terrifying to be operated on by Ben Carson; I would wonder if maybe he used to be good, but has been suffering some kind of early-onset dementia or something and just nobody has gotten around to pulling his license yet.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
That is not what I would want in a brain surgeon—I would want someone alert, focused, and well-grounded in evidence-based thinking. I would find it terrifying to be operated on by Ben Carson; I would wonder if maybe he used to be good, but has been suffering some kind of early-onset dementia or something and just nobody has gotten around to pulling his license yet.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
Here's why the majority of Brexit polls were wrong
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
According to SurveyMonkey's Chief Research Officer, Jon Cohen, young voter turnout and the death of Lawmaker Jo Cox are the likely largest factors in the discrepancy between polls and the final outcome.
"The Remain campaign was heavily dependent on support among younger voters and they simply didn't show up," Cohen told CNBC.
The murder of Cox in the days leading up to the vote, triggered new challenges in polling, even though it was difficult to determine how the tragedy would influence polling.
"After the assassination, the Remain side became more vocal and were willing to share their opinions about Brexit than were leave voters," Cohen said. "It was a very difficult environment to gauge an opinion in."
Big league team owners mega-rich political donors" is a dog-bites-man story (regardless of party)
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
The Steeler's owners, Dan and Pat Rooney are Clinton supporters and were up on stage with her during her rally here this weekend. Dan was also Obama's ambasador to Ireland for four years, a position which made Clinton his boss in the State Department.
We often get to see the Rooneys vote because we live in the same precinct and we both seem to show up before eight AM on election days. The little old ladies who run the polling place all know him and everyone in the place says "Hi, Mr Rooney" at once when he comes in.
posted by octothorpe at 6:46 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm trying to think of an example of one who is NOT a republican of any flavor. Nope, not yet.
The Steeler's owners, Dan and Pat Rooney are Clinton supporters and were up on stage with her during her rally here this weekend. Dan was also Obama's ambasador to Ireland for four years, a position which made Clinton his boss in the State Department.
We often get to see the Rooneys vote because we live in the same precinct and we both seem to show up before eight AM on election days. The little old ladies who run the polling place all know him and everyone in the place says "Hi, Mr Rooney" at once when he comes in.
posted by octothorpe at 6:46 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
What AOANLA, T said. It's nothing to do with the polls, it's about making sure that the forces of regression and hatred are stomped on but good, and that didn't happen in Brexit because lots of people didn't vote.
Enough people will have voted when there are no more votes left to cast, and not before.
What happens if this doesn't happen? Brexit happened to us.
VOTE, MOFOS!
Trump delenda est.
posted by Devonian at 6:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Enough people will have voted when there are no more votes left to cast, and not before.
What happens if this doesn't happen? Brexit happened to us.
VOTE, MOFOS!
Trump delenda est.
posted by Devonian at 6:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
But how does that affect the likelihood or accuracy of polls?
One of the theories about the Brexit thing was that the polls showed Remain would win at least in part because there were people who intended to vote Leave but didn't want to admit it to anybody, right? I have zero difficulty imagining people would do that about voting Trump.
I really want to believe those Republicans who say they'll vote Johnson or stay home or only vote down ticket. But I don't. I'm an Arkansas liberal, and voting is frequently a nose-holding strategic exercise for me. I have many, many times expressed my disgust with AR Democrats.
Mark Pryor was a disgrace to the party and the worst sort of political opportunist, a Republican capitalizing on his father's good name. Blanche Lincoln was better but not great. And many times I declared fuck it, I'm not supporting them. And then I stood in the voting booth and thought about what was at stake, and I realized that at the very least, the party could occasionally put a gun to their heads and say "go with us on this or we'll make it hurt". That sucks, but it's miles better than Tom Fucking Cotton. So I voted strategically, and I went home feeling disgusted with the whole process.
There will be more than a few Republicans doing that next month. And more than a few liberals who are going to give into their "anyone but her" bile ducts and decide that venting their rage is more important than making the pragmatic choice.
the Brexit polls were within the margin of error while Clinton's polls are not.
That's the part that gives me hope, but I'm still holding my breath on this.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
One of the theories about the Brexit thing was that the polls showed Remain would win at least in part because there were people who intended to vote Leave but didn't want to admit it to anybody, right? I have zero difficulty imagining people would do that about voting Trump.
I really want to believe those Republicans who say they'll vote Johnson or stay home or only vote down ticket. But I don't. I'm an Arkansas liberal, and voting is frequently a nose-holding strategic exercise for me. I have many, many times expressed my disgust with AR Democrats.
Mark Pryor was a disgrace to the party and the worst sort of political opportunist, a Republican capitalizing on his father's good name. Blanche Lincoln was better but not great. And many times I declared fuck it, I'm not supporting them. And then I stood in the voting booth and thought about what was at stake, and I realized that at the very least, the party could occasionally put a gun to their heads and say "go with us on this or we'll make it hurt". That sucks, but it's miles better than Tom Fucking Cotton. So I voted strategically, and I went home feeling disgusted with the whole process.
There will be more than a few Republicans doing that next month. And more than a few liberals who are going to give into their "anyone but her" bile ducts and decide that venting their rage is more important than making the pragmatic choice.
the Brexit polls were within the margin of error while Clinton's polls are not.
That's the part that gives me hope, but I'm still holding my breath on this.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I deprecate leaping to Nazi comparisons in general, but I don't see any way to avoid it here.
Yup.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:48 AM on October 24, 2016
Yup.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:48 AM on October 24, 2016
"The Remain campaign was heavily dependent on support among younger voters and they simply didn't show up," Cohen told CNBC.
And that is in part how GW Bush got reelected too. I really hope young people will realize their power and use it, but history shows they won't. I don't think they're going to show up. I hope they prove me wrong.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
And that is in part how GW Bush got reelected too. I really hope young people will realize their power and use it, but history shows they won't. I don't think they're going to show up. I hope they prove me wrong.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Likely Voter modeling is a significant problem for GE2016 pollsters as well, but for somewhat different reasons. Also, most of the potential problems with Likely Voter models would seem to make it likely that Clinton will if anything overperform relative to the polls. Pollsters have never had to deal with such a disparity in GOTV efforts, and there is also reason to suspect that women and minority voters are going to show increased turnout this year beyond what the pollsters are planning for. It's prudent for them to be conservative and predict that changes in turnout will be modest, but we can't rule out the possibility of something like a Latino Wave coming up this year and changing the game in unexpected ways. On the other side there's the "shy Trumper" concept, but I think that's been largely debunked at this point. Either way, there's significant uncertainty in the polling this year due to the strangeness of the election, but I feel like if anything they're likely underestimating Clinton's chances somewhat.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
> "Based on every American presidential election we have polling data for, no candidate with a lead like Clinton's this far out from the election has lost, ever."
It won't happen until it does. So vote, and make sure it still won't happen this time. I don't see why that's a remotely controversial stance.
posted by kyrademon at 6:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
It won't happen until it does. So vote, and make sure it still won't happen this time. I don't see why that's a remotely controversial stance.
posted by kyrademon at 6:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
One of the theories about the Brexit thing was that the polls showed Remain would win at least in part because there were people who intended to vote Leave but didn't want to admit it to anybody, right?
I don't know, I mean that's a weird theory, since the polls didn't show that Remain would win. Well, some did, and some had Leave winning, but the aggregate was a tie. But Trump says "hey all of the polls were wrong about Brexit, too!" and then everybody believes it, contra actual facts.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:54 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't know, I mean that's a weird theory, since the polls didn't show that Remain would win. Well, some did, and some had Leave winning, but the aggregate was a tie. But Trump says "hey all of the polls were wrong about Brexit, too!" and then everybody believes it, contra actual facts.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:54 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Dan was also Obama's ambasador to Ireland for four years, a position which made Clinton his boss in the State Department.
Technically, an Ambassador reports to the President. The Secretary of State is generally the practical intermediary, but the President appoints the Ambassador as his or her direct representative.
posted by Etrigan at 6:59 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Technically, an Ambassador reports to the President. The Secretary of State is generally the practical intermediary, but the President appoints the Ambassador as his or her direct representative.
posted by Etrigan at 6:59 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
How Democrats are dominating early voting in Nevada
posted by colt45 at 7:02 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by colt45 at 7:02 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump in 2012 on deporting many undocumented immigrants: 'I don't believe in that'
Asked about his views on immigrant labor, Trump said, "You know my views on it and I'm not necessarily, I think I'm probably down the middle on that also. Because I also understand how, as an example, you have people in this country for 20 years, they've done a great job, they've done wonderfully, they've gone to school, they've gotten good marks, they're productive — now we're supposed to send them out of the country, I don't believe in that...posted by kirkaracha at 7:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Ugh, that tweet graphic put out by the PA State Dept informing people of the "vote online" hoax is awful. Simplify, people!
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:13 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:13 AM on October 24, 2016
Yes, Trump Really Is Saying ‘Big League,’ Not ‘Bigly,’ Linguists Say
Donald J. Trump has said almost too many controversial things to count during the course of his presidential campaign, but over the last few months one turn of phrase has inspired more online curiosity than fervor: the word “bigly.” Or was that “big league?” Or maybe both?posted by kirkaracha at 7:20 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
For the last couple days I've been mulling over our discussion w/r/t sympathy for Trump supporters. Supposing that one is unable to live up to the hippie Jesus of one's youth, and finds oneself unable to love one's enemies to quite that degree . . .
. . . what would be the legal issues surrounding setting up a SuperPAC that targets the deplorables and donates the proceeds to, say, the Southern Poverty Law Center? Do SuperPACs have any legal accountability beyond "don't work directly with a candidate"?
The moral calculus is awfully tempting, one must confess.
posted by whuppy at 7:21 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
. . . what would be the legal issues surrounding setting up a SuperPAC that targets the deplorables and donates the proceeds to, say, the Southern Poverty Law Center? Do SuperPACs have any legal accountability beyond "don't work directly with a candidate"?
The moral calculus is awfully tempting, one must confess.
posted by whuppy at 7:21 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Fucks: Obama is just all out of them
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:21 AM on October 24, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:21 AM on October 24, 2016 [32 favorites]
God (and my wife) knows I've done my share of sticking with these threads as best I can, but I don't remember seeing this mentioned, and Google's failing me.
Anybody recall seeing (here or otherwise) a link to footage of a younger Trump methodically and creepily rolling his face around in a chesty blonde woman's cleavage? The way it was done—it looked like he was doing some kind of dumb stunt—makes me think it was on Howard Stern.
The woman's consenting in this case (imagine!), but it's just super sleazy-looking (Trump looks almost like he's sleepwalking), and I'm really surprised it hasn't been in any ads, or dropped into any news segments I've seen.
posted by Rykey at 7:22 AM on October 24, 2016
Anybody recall seeing (here or otherwise) a link to footage of a younger Trump methodically and creepily rolling his face around in a chesty blonde woman's cleavage? The way it was done—it looked like he was doing some kind of dumb stunt—makes me think it was on Howard Stern.
The woman's consenting in this case (imagine!), but it's just super sleazy-looking (Trump looks almost like he's sleepwalking), and I'm really surprised it hasn't been in any ads, or dropped into any news segments I've seen.
posted by Rykey at 7:22 AM on October 24, 2016
The polls did show remain would win— everyone expected remain to win, hence the full on 'holy fuck!' moment that spread throughout the country and world as the exit polls and final results were tallied.
There is some talk that because the remain side was expected to win, a lot of the remainers stayed at home thinking "Meh, why bother" and of those that did go to vote, some took the incredulous "I expect remain to win, so I'll vote leave to send a message" option.
Now, how much of that do I think really mattered— how many that skipped the vote would have gotten out to vote if the polls were swaying more to Leave? Would those 'stick it to the politicians' have chosen a different option? I'd *like* to think so, but the reality is probably not. Hindsight is beautiful, but sadly useless without a time-machine.
So there are similarities there— Clinton is expected to win, and that might make the less-engaged voter stay at home, but in your election getting Clinton to over 50% of the popular vote will send a message that needs to be made.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
There is some talk that because the remain side was expected to win, a lot of the remainers stayed at home thinking "Meh, why bother" and of those that did go to vote, some took the incredulous "I expect remain to win, so I'll vote leave to send a message" option.
Now, how much of that do I think really mattered— how many that skipped the vote would have gotten out to vote if the polls were swaying more to Leave? Would those 'stick it to the politicians' have chosen a different option? I'd *like* to think so, but the reality is probably not. Hindsight is beautiful, but sadly useless without a time-machine.
So there are similarities there— Clinton is expected to win, and that might make the less-engaged voter stay at home, but in your election getting Clinton to over 50% of the popular vote will send a message that needs to be made.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Anybody recall seeing (here or otherwise) a link to footage of a younger Trump methodically and creepily rolling his face around in a chesty blonde woman's cleavage?
You mean this?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
You mean this?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Rykey, it sounds like you are remembering the stunt footage of Trump doing that to Rudy G. in drag. No, I'm not kidding.
posted by clever sheep at 7:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by clever sheep at 7:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Yes, Trump Really Is Saying ‘Big League,’ Not ‘Bigly,’ Linguists Say
Can we please avoid getting into this derail again?
posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Can we please avoid getting into this derail again?
posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
The polls did show remain would win— everyone expected remain to win, hence the full on 'holy fuck!' moment that spread throughout the country and world as the exit polls and final results were tallied.
Prediction markets thought Remain would win. Polls were a different story.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Prediction markets thought Remain would win. Polls were a different story.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump, on the 700 Club, just said Hillary wants to kill 9 month old babies the day before their due date. So, that's nice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Rykey, it sounds like you are remembering the stunt footage of Trump doing that to Rudy G. in drag. No, I'm not kidding.
That's it. *shudder*
posted by Rykey at 7:33 AM on October 24, 2016
That's it. *shudder*
posted by Rykey at 7:33 AM on October 24, 2016
A friend in Nevada reports:
"I think urban NV is mostly blue at this point, but the people who disagree are frighteningly vocal and even violent
"I had friends early voting in our Carson city and there were Trump supporters intimidating voters
"When officials came to try to make them leave, the argument just about came to blows
"Clinton signs are getting vandalized around the city...
"A white guy just ran over indigenous protesters downtown...
"It's just a really icky atmosphere. It's easy to see how my state spawned Cliven Bundy."
posted by schadenfrau at 7:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
"I think urban NV is mostly blue at this point, but the people who disagree are frighteningly vocal and even violent
"I had friends early voting in our Carson city and there were Trump supporters intimidating voters
"When officials came to try to make them leave, the argument just about came to blows
"Clinton signs are getting vandalized around the city...
"A white guy just ran over indigenous protesters downtown...
"It's just a really icky atmosphere. It's easy to see how my state spawned Cliven Bundy."
posted by schadenfrau at 7:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Early voting started in Texas today and The Texas Tribune released a couple of explainers for those of us voting early. What ID do I need to bring to vote? What are the rules for poll watchers?
posted by colt45 at 7:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by colt45 at 7:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well since we're on the subject of Texas voting, should I vote early or on election day? I like voting on election day, and will definitely vote either way. But Hillary and others keep urging us to vote early. There's no true benefit to that besides getting the vote in so they don't have to worry about it right?
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:44 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:44 AM on October 24, 2016
I like voting on election day, and will definitely vote either way.
I like voting on election day too, but this year I voted early. If I wait until election day there is the slimmest of possibilities I won't be able to make it due to illness/family crisis/attack by robots/temporary amnesia. If I've already voted there is a zero percent chance of missing the vote. Just too big a risk not to vote now :)
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
I like voting on election day too, but this year I voted early. If I wait until election day there is the slimmest of possibilities I won't be able to make it due to illness/family crisis/attack by robots/temporary amnesia. If I've already voted there is a zero percent chance of missing the vote. Just too big a risk not to vote now :)
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
Well since we're on the subject of Texas voting, should I vote early or on election day?
I'm not from Texas (or even the US), but there seems to be a strong case for voting early and not on election day purely on the basis of how long you will queue - probably minutes, as opposed to hours? Also, one more Democrat voting early is one more in the bank, and one less possible problem for Hillary (voting apparatus dies, poll watchers giving hassle) during the limited time of election day.
Also, publicity of lots of Democrats voting early may deflate some Trump supporters, making them give up and not vote come election day.
posted by Wordshore at 7:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm not from Texas (or even the US), but there seems to be a strong case for voting early and not on election day purely on the basis of how long you will queue - probably minutes, as opposed to hours? Also, one more Democrat voting early is one more in the bank, and one less possible problem for Hillary (voting apparatus dies, poll watchers giving hassle) during the limited time of election day.
Also, publicity of lots of Democrats voting early may deflate some Trump supporters, making them give up and not vote come election day.
posted by Wordshore at 7:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Well since we're on the subject of Texas voting, should I vote early or on election day? I like voting on election day, and will definitely vote either way. But Hillary and others keep urging us to vote early. There's no true benefit to that besides getting the vote in so they don't have to worry about it right?
The Clinton campaign thinks that high early voting numbers will encourage other people to vote early. It's good for everyone because you never know what will happen on the day itself.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
The Clinton campaign thinks that high early voting numbers will encourage other people to vote early. It's good for everyone because you never know what will happen on the day itself.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also, voting early means you can recount the experience over at this Meta!
posted by Wordshore at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I always like to vote early for the same reasons mcstayinskool mentions. Also, there aren't usually any lines for early voting in my location.
posted by amarynth at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by amarynth at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hillary and others keep urging us to vote early. There's no true benefit to that besides getting the vote in so they don't have to worry about it right?
well if you vote early you can vote more often [/fake]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2016
well if you vote early you can vote more often [/fake]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2016
If you vote early you can avoid the risk of running into poll watchers causing trouble for you. It also will keep the Clinton campaign from spending resources on you when they could be spending them on someone else. I also hope that if early voting in Texas is strong enough that we may get more resources put in the state.
posted by colt45 at 7:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by colt45 at 7:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
There's no true benefit to that besides getting the vote in so they don't have to worry about it right?
Someone mentioned in one of the other election threads that voting early allows the field offices in your county to devote their resources efficiently. I.e. they won't be devoting time to people who have early voted.
posted by jeremias at 7:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Someone mentioned in one of the other election threads that voting early allows the field offices in your county to devote their resources efficiently. I.e. they won't be devoting time to people who have early voted.
posted by jeremias at 7:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
The more people who vote early, the easier it is for your local poll workers on Election Day. I'm asking everyone I know to vote early so I can get home at a decent time on Nov. 8.
posted by galvanized unicorn at 7:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by galvanized unicorn at 7:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Anybody recall seeing (here or otherwise) a link to footage of a younger Trump methodically and creepily rolling his face around in a chesty blonde woman's cleavage?You mean this?
Never have I been more thankful to have disabled autoplaying videos in my browser.
posted by indubitable at 7:58 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'd imagine that having one's supporters vote early also helps create a sense of momentum. I have heard that in some places, early voting among likely Clinton voters have already created a lead that would be difficult for Trump to surpass on Election Day itself.
posted by Gelatin at 7:59 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Gelatin at 7:59 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have heard that in some places, early voting among likely Clinton voters have already created a lead that would be difficult for Trump to surpass on Election Day itself.
That's interesting -- do you have any links you could share?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:07 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's interesting -- do you have any links you could share?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:07 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
But Hillary and others keep urging us to vote early. There's no true benefit to that besides getting the vote in so they don't have to worry about it right?
It
It
- allows staff (like me!) to concentrate on other voters
- speeds up the line for people who vote on election day
- greatly reduces chance of encountering Trumpster poll "watchers"
Anybody recall seeing (here or otherwise) a link to footage of a younger Trump methodically and creepily rolling his face around in a chesty blonde woman's cleavage?
You mean this?
If you have a significant other and they use your computer, this is probably a good time to wipe your browser history.
posted by Wordshore at 8:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
You mean this?
If you have a significant other and they use your computer, this is probably a good time to wipe your browser history.
posted by Wordshore at 8:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Here are all the Brexit polls and here's a good piece from the same site discussing where the comparison falls down.
Vote as early as you can. In NC, the incremental list of each day's early voters is released by the state board of elections, so it's straightforward for field staff and volunteers to cross-check and mark you down as having voted. You won't get nudged to vote any more by the campaign, and correlating the early voting list to the contacts they've already made tells them how things stand in far greater detail than simply crunching the public data.
As Keepin' It 1600 slightly sniffily noted, modern campaigns are scientific operations reported upon as if they're works of art.
posted by holgate at 8:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Vote as early as you can. In NC, the incremental list of each day's early voters is released by the state board of elections, so it's straightforward for field staff and volunteers to cross-check and mark you down as having voted. You won't get nudged to vote any more by the campaign, and correlating the early voting list to the contacts they've already made tells them how things stand in far greater detail than simply crunching the public data.
As Keepin' It 1600 slightly sniffily noted, modern campaigns are scientific operations reported upon as if they're works of art.
posted by holgate at 8:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
tl;dr MeFi says vote early
posted by saturday_morning at 8:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 8:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
If the campaign can "bank" early voters, they can avoid any of a number of problems, most of which have already been pointed out. Pretty much every GOP-run state has made it difficult for left-leaning demographics to vote, so if they can get those people to vote early (the restriction or elimination of which is also a conservative dream), they can focus their attention elsewhere.
BTW all of this is another reason that SCOTUS will be really important this year. The potential to unravel or even overturn Shelby v. Holder and expand voting rights for those most often targeted by conservatives (mainly along racist and classist lines) will be crucial to the bottom-up efforts like taking back local and state offices before 2020 so that redistricting is more fair.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
BTW all of this is another reason that SCOTUS will be really important this year. The potential to unravel or even overturn Shelby v. Holder and expand voting rights for those most often targeted by conservatives (mainly along racist and classist lines) will be crucial to the bottom-up efforts like taking back local and state offices before 2020 so that redistricting is more fair.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Outside of all of the really wonderful reasons that everyone else has listed for voting early, there's also the peace of mind that comes with having done it - It feels good.
posted by MysticMCJ at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by MysticMCJ at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
That's interesting -- do you have any links you could share?
It was a vague recollection, and it turns out that articles like this NYT piece and this one in TPM don't go so far as to say that her early-vote lead will be insurmountable, just advantageous. The Talking Points Memo article says:
It was a vague recollection, and it turns out that articles like this NYT piece and this one in TPM don't go so far as to say that her early-vote lead will be insurmountable, just advantageous. The Talking Points Memo article says:
The Clinton campaign is looking to build an insurmountable lead in Florida and North Carolina during early voting. If she wins either of those states, she'll probably be the next president.posted by Gelatin at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2016
...Democrats so far have kept it close with mail-in ballots, giving Clinton a chance to run up the score with in-person early voting. To do that, she'll need non-whites and young people to turn out near the high levels they did in 2012 for Barack Obama.
In North Carolina, Democrats have moved ahead of Republicans in early voting. Republicans had held a modest lead based on mail-in ballots returned, but that was at a much narrower margin than in 2012, when Mitt Romney narrowly won the state. After in-person voting began on Thursday, Democrats overtook Republicans in overall votes cast.
I don't mean to nitpick but "Democrats so far have kept it close with mail-in ballots" doesn't seem to suggest an insurmountable lead for Hillary Clinton. Early voting is great, everybody please do it. But nothing is ensured through early voting -- if you don't vote early please vote on election day.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
The thing I'm most excited about this election season; Maine is very likely to be the first state with Ranked Choice Voting. This is largely due to momentum built from our deplorable Governor getting elected the first time with 38% of the vote due to a strong indepdent canidate. And then we reelected him probably because of a spoiler again.
And I'm sure you all know how that worked out for us.
posted by mayonnaises at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
And I'm sure you all know how that worked out for us.
posted by mayonnaises at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
>>That's interesting -- do you have any links you could share?
>It was a vague recollection, and it turns out that articles like this NYT piece and this one in TPM don't go so far as to say that her early-vote lead will be insurmountable, just advantageous
There's also this article from Politico (which is only 8 days old and feels like it came out weeks ago.)
It's a thorough and well researched article, but the details on whether early voting can win the election for HC is pretty vague, here's the most relevant passage:
>It was a vague recollection, and it turns out that articles like this NYT piece and this one in TPM don't go so far as to say that her early-vote lead will be insurmountable, just advantageous
There's also this article from Politico (which is only 8 days old and feels like it came out weeks ago.)
It's a thorough and well researched article, but the details on whether early voting can win the election for HC is pretty vague, here's the most relevant passage:
This year, the Clinton campaign expects as many as 40 percent of battleground state votes to be cast before Nov. 8. The campaign’s allies point to optimistic scenarios in which they build insurmountable leads well before Election Day in a handful of swing states — in places as varied as Nevada, Colorado and Virginia.posted by jeremias at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't mean to nitpick but "Democrats so far have kept it close with mail-in ballots" doesn't seem to suggest an insurmountable lead for Hillary Clinton.
As I said -- it was vague recollection, but the TPM article referred to Clinton looking to build an insurmountable lead, not that she had already done so.
posted by Gelatin at 8:28 AM on October 24, 2016
As I said -- it was vague recollection, but the TPM article referred to Clinton looking to build an insurmountable lead, not that she had already done so.
posted by Gelatin at 8:28 AM on October 24, 2016
As I said -- it was vague recollection, but the TPM article referred to Clinton looking to build an insurmountable lead, not that she had already done so.
Yes that's right! And your earlier comment was "I have heard that in some places, early voting among likely Clinton voters have already created a lead that would be difficult for Trump to surpass on Election Day itself."
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes that's right! And your earlier comment was "I have heard that in some places, early voting among likely Clinton voters have already created a lead that would be difficult for Trump to surpass on Election Day itself."
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
You've convinced me, I'll vote early.
As thanks, have a look at the best campaign ad I've ever seen: Please Re-elect Gerald
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [48 favorites]
As thanks, have a look at the best campaign ad I've ever seen: Please Re-elect Gerald
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [48 favorites]
Trump memo sent out.
They're pretty delusional PLUS 15 days to go and they're still "planning" their $140 million blitz.
PEOPLE ARE ALREADY VOTING. YOU PHYSICALLY CAN'T BURN THAT MUCH CASH ON MEDIA IN TWO WEEKS.
posted by Talez at 8:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
They're pretty delusional PLUS 15 days to go and they're still "planning" their $140 million blitz.
PEOPLE ARE ALREADY VOTING. YOU PHYSICALLY CAN'T BURN THAT MUCH CASH ON MEDIA IN TWO WEEKS.
posted by Talez at 8:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
The goal is to sell the narrative that Clinton is inevitable. The theory is that it boosts or is neutral to turnout by your own followers because people like to vote for the winner. So even if some of your people don't turn out, you get this other boost from people who vote for who they think is going to win. It also seems to have the effect of killing turnout for the other side.
Keep in mind that even if this impacts only 1-2% of votes it has an enormous impact in a first past the post system.
posted by humanfont at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Keep in mind that even if this impacts only 1-2% of votes it has an enormous impact in a first past the post system.
posted by humanfont at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
As thanks, have a look at the best campaign ad I've ever seen: Please Re-elect Gerald
That is, indeed, an awesome campaign ad.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
That is, indeed, an awesome campaign ad.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
And for the third time, I misremembered the Clinton camp's spin about wanting to build an insurmountable lead. Who knows; maybe given the trend TPM sees about fading Trump support among Republicans, they might actually pull it off in certain states. But as far as there being evidence an insurmountable lead exists, I stand corrected.
posted by Gelatin at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Statistically, early voting by mail is how white people vote early (which is why that method wasn't targeted in all those voter suppression bills). Minority groups tend to vote early in person, for pretty good historical reasons.
If Dem votes are pulling even with Republicans in early votes by mail, the Republicans are really fucked.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
If Dem votes are pulling even with Republicans in early votes by mail, the Republicans are really fucked.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Trump electioneering with no disclaimers.
This campaign is so ridiculously unprofessional. If the FEC had some teeth they might have been in some trouble.
posted by Talez at 8:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
This campaign is so ridiculously unprofessional. If the FEC had some teeth they might have been in some trouble.
posted by Talez at 8:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
They're pretty delusional PLUS 15 days to go and they're still "planning" their $140 million blitz.
PEOPLE ARE ALREADY VOTING. YOU PHYSICALLY CAN'T BURN THAT MUCH CASH ON MEDIA IN TWO WEEKS.
So something I've never thought about, but what happens if there are large amounts of money not spent after a campaign ends? So let's say Candidate X has $40 million in the coffers on Nov 9 after they have lost the election, what happens to that money?
(I feel like I should label this question "serious answers only", cause, you know: Trump)
posted by jeremias at 8:39 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
PEOPLE ARE ALREADY VOTING. YOU PHYSICALLY CAN'T BURN THAT MUCH CASH ON MEDIA IN TWO WEEKS.
So something I've never thought about, but what happens if there are large amounts of money not spent after a campaign ends? So let's say Candidate X has $40 million in the coffers on Nov 9 after they have lost the election, what happens to that money?
(I feel like I should label this question "serious answers only", cause, you know: Trump)
posted by jeremias at 8:39 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
So let's say Candidate X has $40 million in the coffers on Nov 9 after they have lost the election, what happens to that money?
Then it's Springtime for Hitler... and Germany.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Then it's Springtime for Hitler... and Germany.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Statistically, early voting by mail is how white people vote early (which is why that method wasn't targeted in all those voter suppression bills). Minority groups tend to vote early in person, for pretty good historical reasons.
If Dem votes are pulling even with Republicans in early votes by mail, the Republicans are really fucked.
Check out this graph of NC early voting by party registration in 2016 vs 2012!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
If Dem votes are pulling even with Republicans in early votes by mail, the Republicans are really fucked.
Check out this graph of NC early voting by party registration in 2016 vs 2012!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Spousal Unit and I plan to vote this afternoon. We live in a deeply red state with no hope of going to Clinton but damn is it gonna feel good to vote for future Madame President
posted by Twain Device at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Twain Device at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
So let's say Candidate X has $40 million in the coffers on Nov 9 after they have lost the election, what happens to that money?
Fuck load of trump steaks.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fuck load of trump steaks.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
One of the serious answers is that it will be used to repay debt. It just so happens that the Trump campaign's main creditor is Donald Trump. [real]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [29 favorites]
Two tweets on early voting, one on how effective getting voters to do it can be:
@markmobility: Among those who have already voted in NC, Clinton leads 63%/37%and another on just how evil the actual rigging of the system by the GOP has been:
@Taniel: GA: Floyd has 100K people (75% white) & 2 early voting locations last week; Gwinnett has 900K people (50% white) & 1 EV location last week.posted by zombieflanders at 8:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
There's no absolute "insurmountable" lead to be had from early voting, given that turnout is typically around 60% of eligible voters. There is past precedent on how many votes it takes to win in each state (calculated down to the county and perhaps even precinct level) in each phase of voting.
Trump's campaign has banked a lot on "dark matter" votes -- the newly-registered, the voters who don't make it a LV screen. We'll only know if they showed up after the election.
posted by holgate at 8:45 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump's campaign has banked a lot on "dark matter" votes -- the newly-registered, the voters who don't make it a LV screen. We'll only know if they showed up after the election.
posted by holgate at 8:45 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
From that Trump memo:
Just call 555 121 3443 and remember, ask the bill payer's permission before you dial!
posted by garius at 8:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Because you've been such a critical supporter, you'll also be able to share your preference on which state we should invest your contribution in.That's right people! This week on Apprentice: Battleground States, you the viewer get to decide where Trump spends his money!
Just call 555 121 3443 and remember, ask the bill payer's permission before you dial!
posted by garius at 8:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump's campaign has banked a lot on "dark matter" votes -- the newly-registered, the voters who don't make it a LV screen.
FWIW, likely voters vs registered voters doesn't seem to be making much difference
posted by saturday_morning at 8:52 AM on October 24, 2016
FWIW, likely voters vs registered voters doesn't seem to be making much difference
posted by saturday_morning at 8:52 AM on October 24, 2016
I had a funny thought this morning about Trump's Gettysburg speech. The media narrative is that the speech was supposed to be about what he'd do in his first 100 days in office, but that he disappointed by mostly talking about how he wants to sue his accusers after the election.
People missed that that is his plan for his first 100 days in office. What else would he have time to do besides fight 12 lawsuits at once?
posted by roll truck roll at 8:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
People missed that that is his plan for his first 100 days in office. What else would he have time to do besides fight 12 lawsuits at once?
posted by roll truck roll at 8:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
One of the serious answers is that it will be used to repay debt. It just so happens that the Trump campaign's main creditor is Donald Trump. [real]
Oh God, so that's what this campaign is really about, isn't it?
Didn't Trump value his own name at something like 3 billion dollars? So lending it to the (doomed) GOP campaign must be worth an equivalent of ... let's see ... exactly 140 million $! ...
Or however much is left in the campaign coffers when this is all over.
posted by sour cream at 8:54 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh God, so that's what this campaign is really about, isn't it?
Didn't Trump value his own name at something like 3 billion dollars? So lending it to the (doomed) GOP campaign must be worth an equivalent of ... let's see ... exactly 140 million $! ...
Or however much is left in the campaign coffers when this is all over.
posted by sour cream at 8:54 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
William Gibson / @GreatDismal:
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:55 AM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
Trump rally crowds now enthusiastically chanting "Ein sexmonster! Ein sexmonster!"[real, apparently, not his notes for new cyberpunk dystopian fiction]
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:55 AM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
I love that first reply, "Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Sexmonster"
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on October 24, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on October 24, 2016 [31 favorites]
I can't think of any way this can be helpful. It isn't even witty.
posted by Namlit at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by Namlit at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2016
FWIW, likely voters vs registered voters doesn't seem to be making much difference
Well, yeah. And if you're going to bring in new voters, past precedent says you need a proper GOTV operation. It's more Underpants Gnomes than campaign strategy.
posted by holgate at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, yeah. And if you're going to bring in new voters, past precedent says you need a proper GOTV operation. It's more Underpants Gnomes than campaign strategy.
posted by holgate at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Early voting, if you can, also helps people who don't have the luxury of early voting -- who may have to take time out of their work day or child-care time to vote on the day. The shorter the lines, the more likely voters are to stick around and cast their vote instead of bailing in despair.
posted by invincible summer at 9:08 AM on October 24, 2016 [51 favorites]
posted by invincible summer at 9:08 AM on October 24, 2016 [51 favorites]
Trump rally crowds now enthusiastically chanting "Ein sexmonster! Ein sexmonster!"
The real question here is, if you're the guy planning to start up a chant at the rally, what's the cadence you choose to shout that at your repulsive Fuhrer? I'm going to guess "EIN sexMONster (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)!" but I could see the argument for a bass-heavy "Ein... sexmonster" to the tune of "I'm Too Sexy."
posted by Mayor West at 9:14 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
The real question here is, if you're the guy planning to start up a chant at the rally, what's the cadence you choose to shout that at your repulsive Fuhrer? I'm going to guess "EIN sexMONster (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)!" but I could see the argument for a bass-heavy "Ein... sexmonster" to the tune of "I'm Too Sexy."
posted by Mayor West at 9:14 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
[real, apparently, not his notes for new cyberpunk dystopian fiction]
real in the sense that he really tweeted this, but there isn't any citation or video clip. I call [fake]
posted by thelonius at 9:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
real in the sense that he really tweeted this, but there isn't any citation or video clip. I call [fake]
posted by thelonius at 9:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
[real, apparently, not his notes for new cyberpunk dystopian fiction]
normally I don't question the [real] tag but do we have a Tur or a Deb corroborating this
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
normally I don't question the [real] tag but do we have a Tur or a Deb corroborating this
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Live stream: Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren: Live in Manchester, NH
No one on right now.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:23 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
No one on right now.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:23 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Texas voter here, and I'll probably bite the bullet and vote early. I kinda hate it, just because there are fewer early-voting locations and the one in my area is always packed. When I go on election day itself, I can usually just breeze in with almost zero wait. I've been persuaded by the arguments above about making it easier on people doing GOTV phone banking for the party so they don't have to bother calling to remind me, so thanks for that.
Nevertheless, I will kill two birds with one stone. The library where early voting is held is a bit over four miles from my house, so I'll combine voting with my planned long run later this week and skip the parking headache entirely. (And will have to carry my license in my running shorts, and will probably annoy those around me when I show up to stand in line a sweaty mess, but oh well.)
I can't believe I will help elect the first woman president. I didn't think this would happen for decades yet. There may be tears.
posted by Salieri at 9:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
Nevertheless, I will kill two birds with one stone. The library where early voting is held is a bit over four miles from my house, so I'll combine voting with my planned long run later this week and skip the parking headache entirely. (And will have to carry my license in my running shorts, and will probably annoy those around me when I show up to stand in line a sweaty mess, but oh well.)
I can't believe I will help elect the first woman president. I didn't think this would happen for decades yet. There may be tears.
posted by Salieri at 9:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
Trump voters don't know what ein means
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
A non-American blogs barely coherently in a pessimistic fashion about the election, and hopefully he will be proved embarrassingly wrong when the Democrats take the White House and Senate comfortably.
posted by Wordshore at 9:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 9:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump voters don't know what ein means
They apparently know what Lugenpresse means so maybe they've been studying German.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
They apparently know what Lugenpresse means so maybe they've been studying German.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
It could make a good Kraftwerk parody tho
I don't want to be
Ein Sexmonster
posted by Existential Dread at 9:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't want to be
Ein Sexmonster
posted by Existential Dread at 9:33 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
If they'd been studying German they'd know how to spell Lügenpresse.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Sanders: My emails would be just as harsh about Clinton
Campaigns engage in politics and sometimes talk badly about the other side. Nothingburgers, buy 1 get 3 free!
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:36 AM on October 24, 2016 [55 favorites]
Campaigns engage in politics and sometimes talk badly about the other side. Nothingburgers, buy 1 get 3 free!
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:36 AM on October 24, 2016 [55 favorites]
One of the serious answers is that it will be used to repay debt. It just so happens that the Trump campaign's main creditor is Donald Trump. [real]
I don't think this is correct unless Trump is going to do something transparently illegal (haha, he'd never be so dumb, right?). If you look at his latest FEC filings, his campaign doesn't have any debts. The important lines to look at are line 19a showing that Trump has loaned $47.5m to the campaign since the beginning, 27a showing there have been $0 in loan repayments, and line 12 showing $0 in outstanding campaign debts. According to his FEC filings, Trump really has forgiven the loans he has made to the campaign.
Sure he's making some of that money back in paying rent to his facilities, airline company, taco bowls and whatnot, but Politico puts the tally at $8.2m. So his companies are making 17 cents for every dollar he has put in.
posted by peeedro at 9:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't think this is correct unless Trump is going to do something transparently illegal (haha, he'd never be so dumb, right?). If you look at his latest FEC filings, his campaign doesn't have any debts. The important lines to look at are line 19a showing that Trump has loaned $47.5m to the campaign since the beginning, 27a showing there have been $0 in loan repayments, and line 12 showing $0 in outstanding campaign debts. According to his FEC filings, Trump really has forgiven the loans he has made to the campaign.
Sure he's making some of that money back in paying rent to his facilities, airline company, taco bowls and whatnot, but Politico puts the tally at $8.2m. So his companies are making 17 cents for every dollar he has put in.
posted by peeedro at 9:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
After listening to that Reveal podcast I posted above, the thing I am most scared of is that hackers will break into the internet voting apparatus available in many many states, and plant outlandish numbers of obviously fraudulent votes for HRC, not Trump. This would be easily detected and give cover for Donald to dispute the results and encourage actual violence by his supporters. I know that's pretty far-fetched but nothing about the scenario is impossible so that's what I'm wetting my bed about these days.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
zombieflanders: “and another on just how evil the actual rigging of the system by the GOP has been:As a newly-former Gwinnettian, I was horrified by the photos from the Board of Elections storefront in the abandoned strip mall. [Real.]
@Taniel: GA: Floyd has 100K people (75% white) & 2 early voting locations last week; Gwinnett has 900K people (50% white) & 1 EV location last week.”
I'm kind of terrified of how bad Georgia is going to get over the next few years. These idiots might just pass the stupid school takeover amendment. They don't realize that THE MAN made it an amendment so it would be hard to undo. On the other hand, the Usual Suspects might actually vote it down because they want to, "Keep government out of our school boards." [Real, but I can't find the clip.]
posted by ob1quixote at 9:45 AM on October 24, 2016
In one January note, Podesta claimed that Sanders’s healthcare proposal “sucks.” In another, Neera Tanden, a Clinton ally and head of the liberal Center for American Progress, called a former colleague “a f---er” after it was revealed that he was advising Sanders.
I get that not everybody talks that way routinely, but are people actually surprised that other people do talk that way routinely when they're talking in private? This is the real locker room talk, where you tell each other that this thing that happened was bullshit, even though you shook hands and said "good game" to the other team five minutes ago. You can in fact feel both ways simultaneously--you can respect your opponents and still be frustrated with them or think they screwed up, and good sportsmanship is what dictates that you don't call people names to their face just because you need to vent your frustrations.
posted by Sequence at 9:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [58 favorites]
I get that not everybody talks that way routinely, but are people actually surprised that other people do talk that way routinely when they're talking in private? This is the real locker room talk, where you tell each other that this thing that happened was bullshit, even though you shook hands and said "good game" to the other team five minutes ago. You can in fact feel both ways simultaneously--you can respect your opponents and still be frustrated with them or think they screwed up, and good sportsmanship is what dictates that you don't call people names to their face just because you need to vent your frustrations.
posted by Sequence at 9:48 AM on October 24, 2016 [58 favorites]
I get that not everybody talks that way routinely, but are people actually surprised that other people do talk that way routinely when they're talking in private?
This election has shown repeatedly that there's no action so mundane that the press can't act shocked about if it was Clinton or her campaign doing it, and no action so insane that the press can't find a way to shrug it off if it was Trump or his campaign doing it. All of the Podesta stuff has seemed like this -- the press is shocked, shocked to find that a political campaign vents about other campaigns in private, and discusses the political realities of taking positions publicly!
posted by tocts at 9:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [42 favorites]
This election has shown repeatedly that there's no action so mundane that the press can't act shocked about if it was Clinton or her campaign doing it, and no action so insane that the press can't find a way to shrug it off if it was Trump or his campaign doing it. All of the Podesta stuff has seemed like this -- the press is shocked, shocked to find that a political campaign vents about other campaigns in private, and discusses the political realities of taking positions publicly!
posted by tocts at 9:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [42 favorites]
This election has shown repeatedly that there's no action so mundane that the press can't act shocked about if it was Clinton or her campaign doing it
True or False? Hillary Clinton, a Native Chicagoan, Is a Cubs Fan
Was Mrs. Clinton, a native Chicagoan who ostentatiously donned a Yankees hat during her 2000 campaign for the Senate from New York, really a Cubs fan at heart?Hills has been following the Yankees as her American League team since she dressed up as Mickey Mantle for Halloween when she was seven.
Or was she a baseball flip-flopper, cynically falling in behind whichever team was more advantageous in an election year?
...
In 1999...she and her husband, President Bill Clinton, welcomed the Yankees to the White House for a visit. Mrs. Clinton donned a Yankees cap given to her by the team’s manager, Joe Torre.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:57 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Approximately 25% of Arizona is native land, with a total of 22 tribes making up about 10% of the state’s population, Navajo Nation being the largest and most politically active. Of the 160 organizers now in Arizona for the DNC and the campaign, a Clinton official said, 25 are dedicated to tribal communities.The Clinton Camp Thinks Native American Voters Could Make The Difference In Arizona (Buzzfeed, via @Sherman_Alexie)
posted by salix at 9:58 AM on October 24, 2016 [24 favorites]
real in the sense that he really tweeted this, but there isn't any citation or video clip. I call [fake]
I haven't found independent verification yet. Although Gibson's been pretty sober about this election on Twitter, he may be passing along something secondhand or possibly indulging himself here. Please treat as [fiction] until corroborated.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:59 AM on October 24, 2016
I haven't found independent verification yet. Although Gibson's been pretty sober about this election on Twitter, he may be passing along something secondhand or possibly indulging himself here. Please treat as [fiction] until corroborated.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:59 AM on October 24, 2016
True or False? Hillary Clinton, a Native Chicagoan, Is a Cubs Fan
I honestly thought this was a Deadspin article until I moused over the link. Really? The Times?
posted by zachlipton at 10:02 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I honestly thought this was a Deadspin article until I moused over the link. Really? The Times?
posted by zachlipton at 10:02 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I roll my eyes at the shock over the idea that someone could be a fan of *two* baseball teams.
posted by tavella at 10:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by tavella at 10:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
FTA: The source of suspicion as to Mrs. Clinton’s baseball loyalties is another set of facts: In 1999, only days after announcing that she was forming an exploratory committee to run for the Senate from New York, she and her husband, President Bill Clinton, welcomed the Yankees to the White House for a visit. Mrs. Clinton donned a Yankees cap given to her by the team’s manager, Joe Torre.
Jesus Christ, this is so stupid. My first response is that the Yankees won the World Series in 1999 (and 1998, and 2000!). Championship sports teams typically visit the White House! That's probably why they were invited! That should be mentioned! My second response is who fucking cares, it's okay to like two sports teams, especially ones in separate leagues, especially if you grew up in one place and live in a different one. But no, let's take a deep dive into the credentials of a woman who likes sports!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
Jesus Christ, this is so stupid. My first response is that the Yankees won the World Series in 1999 (and 1998, and 2000!). Championship sports teams typically visit the White House! That's probably why they were invited! That should be mentioned! My second response is who fucking cares, it's okay to like two sports teams, especially ones in separate leagues, especially if you grew up in one place and live in a different one. But no, let's take a deep dive into the credentials of a woman who likes sports!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
John Oliver Taunts Trump with His Emmy: ‘I Have Something I Know That You Want’
posted by kirkaracha at 10:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm not saying it's totally sexism but just you try being a woman who is vocal about liking sports and watch idiots come out of the woodwork to point out all the reasons why your fandom is invalid.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:06 AM on October 24, 2016 [82 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:06 AM on October 24, 2016 [82 favorites]
oh it's totally sexism
(I'm not a woman, but I am a sports fan who has eyes, ears and functioning cognitive processes)
posted by dersins at 10:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
(I'm not a woman, but I am a sports fan who has eyes, ears and functioning cognitive processes)
posted by dersins at 10:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
So his companies are making 17 cents for every dollar he has put in.
A Trump personal best!
posted by schadenfrau at 10:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
A Trump personal best!
posted by schadenfrau at 10:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
Floyd has 100K people (75% white) & 2 early voting locations last week; Gwinnett has 900K people (50% white) & 1 EV location last week.
This got me curious about the pictures of long lines I’m used to seeing from US elections. Presumably there are far more voting locations on the day of the election, but are there laws about the number of voters served by each polling place? Googling suggests about 1500 voters per polling district is typical in the UK, with some up to about 3000, so that’s what I would be comparing it to. Although we typically have far less stuff to vote for than you lot seem to, which would also speed up the process.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
This got me curious about the pictures of long lines I’m used to seeing from US elections. Presumably there are far more voting locations on the day of the election, but are there laws about the number of voters served by each polling place? Googling suggests about 1500 voters per polling district is typical in the UK, with some up to about 3000, so that’s what I would be comparing it to. Although we typically have far less stuff to vote for than you lot seem to, which would also speed up the process.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
John Oliver Taunts Trump with His Emmy: ‘I Have Something I Know That You Want’Hah, Colbert did the same thing with 2 Emmies, curling then, making them kiss, waving them around.
posted by xyzzy at 10:11 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
1) It's totally sexism to presume as your starting point that a native Chicagoan who later moved to New York and represented the state in Congress is being a bandwagon-jumper when she cheers for the Cubs and Yankees.
2) That said, while having two favorite teams is generally acceptable, especially for transplants, you can either be a fan of the Yankees, and a fan of any other team and hate the fucking Yankees. No third option.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:12 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
2) That said, while having two favorite teams is generally acceptable, especially for transplants, you can either be a fan of the Yankees, and a fan of any other team and hate the fucking Yankees. No third option.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:12 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Pondering doing early voting on Halloween, with appropriate apparel.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:13 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:13 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
A couple of weeks ago I was wondering if Trump was comparable to Archie Bunker.
6/3/16: Norman Lear Uses WGA Event To Lash Out At Donald Trump: “He IS Archie Bunker!”
9/27/16: Norman Lear: Donald Trump Is Way Worse Than Archie Bunker
posted by Room 641-A at 10:14 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
6/3/16: Norman Lear Uses WGA Event To Lash Out At Donald Trump: “He IS Archie Bunker!”
9/27/16: Norman Lear: Donald Trump Is Way Worse Than Archie Bunker
posted by Room 641-A at 10:14 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
TBH I'm a little bummed that Hillary isn't a Mets fan.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:15 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 10:15 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Thank the gods that Arkansas doesn't have an MLB team, or we'd be seeing three times the bullshit "Clinton hypocrisy!!!" callouts.
posted by Etrigan at 10:15 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 10:15 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, I for real cackled, at a volume sufficient to startle two cats, at this NC 2012-2016 early voting graph that showboz_liz posted.
It might have even been a shrieking cackle.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
It might have even been a shrieking cackle.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Answering my own question (PDF):
Excluding Oregon, states generally range from slightly under 1,000 to slightly over 2,000 reported registered voters per polling place. Massachusetts reported the highest average, 2,811, and Wyoming reported the smallest average, 794.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Excluding Oregon, states generally range from slightly under 1,000 to slightly over 2,000 reported registered voters per polling place. Massachusetts reported the highest average, 2,811, and Wyoming reported the smallest average, 794.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, my dad posted another shitty meme to facebook, so I did 30 calls for HRC and left a comment thanking him for reminding me to do so.
Talked to guy in GA who had already voted (along with his whole household) for HRC and wanted to chat a bit about whether I thought Georgia would go blue. And a guy from AZ who was currently out-of-state and needed an absentee ballot, which I hope he can get in time.
posted by nonasuch at 10:20 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
Talked to guy in GA who had already voted (along with his whole household) for HRC and wanted to chat a bit about whether I thought Georgia would go blue. And a guy from AZ who was currently out-of-state and needed an absentee ballot, which I hope he can get in time.
posted by nonasuch at 10:20 AM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
Conway: "Trump would challenge Clinton to a fourth debate."
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
“The debates are a very unique opportunity for all of America to see these candidates side by side. And I wish there were more debates,” Conway said in a radio interview with John Catsimatidis. “I think Donald Trump would challenge Hillary Clinton to another debate for a very simple reason: Unless you are a money donor, you are not going to have much access to Hillary Clinton out on the stump now.”If you apply Trump's Mirror, you could translate this as "we're out of money and need another round of free media between now and the 8th".
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:27 AM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
Excluding Oregon, states generally range from slightly under 1,000 to slightly over 2,000 reported registered voters per polling place. Massachusetts reported the highest average, 2,811, and Wyoming reported the smallest average, 794.Probably worth noting that Massachusetts has vastly higher population density than Wyoming does, and you'd need to take into account not only the number of voters per polling place but also the distance voters have to travel to get there.
I strongly suspect, though, that a lot of the long lines you see are caused by deliberate decisions that are intended to slow down voting in particular precincts.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Conway: "Trump would challenge Clinton to a fourth debate."
posted by zamboni at 10:30 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]Best of seven?
Damn right!
A Facebook Live video of the protest shows a pickup truck revving its engine in front of the crowd that had spilled onto the street in Reno's downtown. Several protesters confronted the driver and the passenger before the truck drives through the crowd, tires squealing, at about 6:40 p.m. Monday.
Oh God. No I think it was that same atrocity, spitbull.
Jesus.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:30 AM on October 24, 2016
Oh God. No I think it was that same atrocity, spitbull.
Jesus.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:30 AM on October 24, 2016
Guardian interview: Margaret Atwood: ‘All dystopias are telling you is to make sure you’ve got a lot of canned goods and a gun’
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:31 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
Can you understand the appeal of Trump, I ask? “He brings out the temper-tantrum-throwing wilful brat in all of us. ‘Why can’t I do what I want? Why can’t I have what I want? Those other people are stopping me. Those other people have a bigger lollipop that I do, I’m going to take their lollipop away from them.’ But on the other hand, he couples that with the most amazing whining.” She mentions the complaint by Trump that his microphone malfunctioned during the first televised presidential debate. (“Rubbish.”)Interviewer threw out as a side note that Nate Silver is a practictioner of "psephology", the study and scientific analysis of elections.
“I tell you this,” she continues. “Hillary Clinton is a better man than Trump. She has more connection to the traditional male virtues. She has comported herself in a much more manly fashion. Ask any real alpha males that you’ll know and they’ll say of Trump, ‘This is the guy we didn’t like at school because he was a bully, but as soon as anyone pushed back at him he started to whine.’”
What does she think, then, of Clinton’s campaign? “Well, it’s more of a campaign. Trump has taken about 10 different positions on everything, so there is no way of knowing what he really thinks. You actually just don’t know. He will adopt a position depending on what reaction is mirrored back to him. Basically, it’s very close to being a manifestation of a mob: burn them at the stake, screaming and yelling.”
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:31 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
Upthread it was mentioned (can't find it now, of course) that if you vote early, voter records are updated so that your candidate's campaign can then scratch you off the list of voters on whom to expend GOTV effort. Can anyone explain to me the mechanism by which this works? Are counties really providing daily updates to the candidates of names of those who have early voted?
posted by HotToddy at 10:36 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by HotToddy at 10:36 AM on October 24, 2016
Outgoing Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said he is confident that he has laid the groundwork for Democrats to nuke the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if they win back the Senate in November.
Yeeesssss.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [42 favorites]
Yeeesssss.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [42 favorites]
A Facebook Live video of the protest shows a pickup truck revving its engine in front of the crowd that had spilled onto the street in Reno's downtown. Several protesters confronted the driver and the passenger before the truck drives through the crowd, tires squealing, at about 6:40 p.m. Monday.
Just like the Nice attack. Islamist terrorists, white terrorists—these people are on the same side.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Just like the Nice attack. Islamist terrorists, white terrorists—these people are on the same side.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Are counties really providing daily updates to the candidates of names of those who have early voted?Yes, they are. During the days leading up to election day and on election day, the mechanism will be that I will be given a list and a black sharpie, and I will cross off the people who have voted. Until then, the data gets entered into the voter database that we use to make our walk and call packets.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:38 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Are counties really providing daily updates to the candidates of names of those who have early voted?
I can't say whether all of them are, but it's pretty common.
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on October 24, 2016
I can't say whether all of them are, but it's pretty common.
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on October 24, 2016
Just like the Nice attack. Islamist terrorists, white terrorists—these people are on the same side.
Of course, one of these incidents got several days of coverage in the press all over the world, while the other is already basically a short blurb in local papers.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Of course, one of these incidents got several days of coverage in the press all over the world, while the other is already basically a short blurb in local papers.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Pondering doing early voting on Halloween, with appropriate apparel.
Like, fully rigged? Sure.
posted by Namlit at 10:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Like, fully rigged? Sure.
posted by Namlit at 10:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just like the Nice attack.
Sounds like it was more complicated than that.
Sounds like it was more complicated than that.
The Reno Police Department has identified three people charged in the incident Monday when a truck driver drove through protestors under the Reno Arch.posted by zamboni at 10:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nicholas Mahaffey, 18, the driver of the truck, has been charged with a misdemeanor count of provoking an assault.
Two protestors have also been charged with simple battery: Samuel Harry, 21, and James Fletcher, 24.
Reno Police Chief Jason Soto said at a press conference that the video shows Harry and Fletcher attacking people inside the truck after it stopped in front of the group spread across North Virginia Street under the Reno Arch. Fletcher allegedly punched Mahaffey in the face while Harry allegedly punched the 17-year-old passenger.
The videos also captured people making threats toward the driver and passenger, Soto said.
Nothing in the videos captures comments based on race or ethnicity, Soto said.
A minute after the incident Mahaffey called Reno police and said he tried to lurch forward to clear protestors so he could flee but was attacked and feared for his safety, so he drove through the crowd, Soto said. The police chief described Mahaffey as cooperative.
Just like the Nice attack. Islamist terrorists, white terrorists—these people are on the same side.
This doesn't sound planned, like the Nice attack. It sounds more like a casual but total disregard for indigenous lives, which is...kind of worse. Like this was just a Monday for this monster.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
This doesn't sound planned, like the Nice attack. It sounds more like a casual but total disregard for indigenous lives, which is...kind of worse. Like this was just a Monday for this monster.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
ArbitraryAndCapricious: Are counties really providing daily updates to the candidates of names of those who have early voted?
At least here, it's not that the counties are giving information to the candidates, it's that voting records are public, so organizations who conduct GOTV efforts--not just specific candidate campaigns, but also those working to mobilize Latinx voters, etc.--review these records daily (or more often, as Election Day approaches) and use them to organize their activities.
posted by Superplin at 10:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
At least here, it's not that the counties are giving information to the candidates, it's that voting records are public, so organizations who conduct GOTV efforts--not just specific candidate campaigns, but also those working to mobilize Latinx voters, etc.--review these records daily (or more often, as Election Day approaches) and use them to organize their activities.
posted by Superplin at 10:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
@christinawilkie
Wow: Clinton spox: "133,000 Latinos have already cast ballots in Florida. That is a 99% increase over 2012.”
posted by chris24 at 10:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [61 favorites]
Wow: Clinton spox: "133,000 Latinos have already cast ballots in Florida. That is a 99% increase over 2012.”
posted by chris24 at 10:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [61 favorites]
feared for his safety
Dude was in a truck.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Dude was in a truck.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
The new video from James O’Keefe suggests that Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
oh man guys I'm worried, this could be really bad for Clinton [fake performative despair]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:46 AM on October 24, 2016 [37 favorites]
oh man guys I'm worried, this could be really bad for Clinton [fake performative despair]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:46 AM on October 24, 2016 [37 favorites]
The new video from James O’Keefe suggests that Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
Ah, that would never have worked. Trump has a worse temper.
posted by Gelatin at 10:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ah, that would never have worked. Trump has a worse temper.
posted by Gelatin at 10:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
A minute after the incident Mahaffey called Reno police and said he tried to lurch forward to clear protestors so he could flee but was attacked and feared for his safety, so he drove through the crowd, Soto said. The police chief described Mahaffey as cooperative.
That's bullshit. If you look at the video, he had all the free space in the world behind him. And he was the one who drove up to the crowd in the first place. It's especially noxious that he's making this "I was so afraid for my safety that I just had to maim these unarmed people" excuse to police, who of course are buying it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
That's bullshit. If you look at the video, he had all the free space in the world behind him. And he was the one who drove up to the crowd in the first place. It's especially noxious that he's making this "I was so afraid for my safety that I just had to maim these unarmed people" excuse to police, who of course are buying it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Wait -- that's it? That was the big thing O'Keefe's been saying all weekend that would show how malevolent and corrupt she was?
Sheesh. Once again Clinton shows how politically inept she is by choosing the wrong duck.
posted by maudlin at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sheesh. Once again Clinton shows how politically inept she is by choosing the wrong duck.
posted by maudlin at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
@HillaryClinton
"Get this Donald: nasty women are smart, nasty women are tough, and nasty women vote.” —@ElizabethForMA: [video]
posted by chris24 at 10:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
"Get this Donald: nasty women are smart, nasty women are tough, and nasty women vote.” —@ElizabethForMA: [video]
posted by chris24 at 10:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
Hahahahhahah. Hahha!! It's Chicken George all over again.
posted by xyzzy at 10:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 10:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's especially noxious that he's making this "I was so afraid for my safety that I just had to maim these unarmed people" excuse to police, who of course are buying it.
Of course they are. That's their own go-to excuse for shooting unarmed people.
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Of course they are. That's their own go-to excuse for shooting unarmed people.
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
The new video from James O’Keefe suggests that Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
PLEASE DO THIS.
When I lived in Rogers Park there was a guy running for Alderman who dressed up in a banana suit and handed bananas out at the Metra stop. He lost. But everybody remembers the banana guy (if not his name). We need more election cosplay.
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
PLEASE DO THIS.
When I lived in Rogers Park there was a guy running for Alderman who dressed up in a banana suit and handed bananas out at the Metra stop. He lost. But everybody remembers the banana guy (if not his name). We need more election cosplay.
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Arguably, Trump pretending to be a real candidate is already plenty of election cosplay.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
chris24: ""Get this Donald: nasty women are smart, nasty women are tough, and nasty women vote.”"
Just another example of the WAR ON MEN: nasty women are glorified, while nasty boys “don’t mean a thing.”
[fake, in the sense that I do not endorse this sentiment but am merely exploring it for mildly amusing reasons]
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Just another example of the WAR ON MEN: nasty women are glorified, while nasty boys “don’t mean a thing.”
[fake, in the sense that I do not endorse this sentiment but am merely exploring it for mildly amusing reasons]
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Trump pretending to be a real candidate is already plenty of election cosplay
That's just comparing bananas and oranges.
posted by flabdablet at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
That's just comparing bananas and oranges.
posted by flabdablet at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
The best O’Keefe could do is a heavily edited video where someone sort of indicates that the candidate was possibly aware of a plan that was never seriously carried out to engage in a time-old tradition of mocking your opponent with a costumed mascot to goad him into releasing information basically every editorial board has said he should release?
I'm starting to feel bad for the guy. He worked so hard to dig something up, hyped up this story like people were coming to assassinate him this weekend, and "guy says Hillary Clinton knew about the Donald Duck costume idea" is the best he could do. Sad.
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm starting to feel bad for the guy. He worked so hard to dig something up, hyped up this story like people were coming to assassinate him this weekend, and "guy says Hillary Clinton knew about the Donald Duck costume idea" is the best he could do. Sad.
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm sorry, but that story is charmingly hilarious and just sort of stupidly ridiculous. Can we still do it? Is it too late to send out legions of Donald Duck mascots to quack at Trump about ducking his taxes? Can we send Scrooge McDuck mascots out with them?
posted by yasaman at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald TrumThe Clintons and The Duck go back a LOOONG way. (Via a self-avowed deplorable.)
posted by Coventry at 11:01 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
O'Keefe: "If I die, know that I was killed to protect the terrible secret that I am about to uncov--"
*laptop quacks*
O'Keefe: [slams laptop shut]
posted by saturday_morning at 11:02 AM on October 24, 2016 [41 favorites]
*laptop quacks*
O'Keefe: [slams laptop shut]
posted by saturday_morning at 11:02 AM on October 24, 2016 [41 favorites]
hyped up this story like people were coming to assassinate him this weekendOMG, thank you for reminding me of the Donald Duck costume dead man's switch. I'm practically hyperventilating over here.
posted by xyzzy at 11:03 AM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Based on his track record, he apparently never learns to completely delete the part from the raw footage at the beginning where the interviewer says “hey, come with me on this weird flight of fancy where everything we say is hypothetical!”
It's like that episode of Matlock where he's lecturing for some college students and some dude raises his hand and says, “Hypothetically, Mister Matlock, if you wanted to commit a murder, how would you do it?” Like, you knew that dude was up to no good, even without the ominous musical cue that played whenever he spoke
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:04 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's like that episode of Matlock where he's lecturing for some college students and some dude raises his hand and says, “Hypothetically, Mister Matlock, if you wanted to commit a murder, how would you do it?” Like, you knew that dude was up to no good, even without the ominous musical cue that played whenever he spoke
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:04 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
We're learning so much about the practical difficulties of running a campaign though:
Robert Creamer: "The real problem turns out that it's not easy to find Donald Duck customs for adults, as you might imagine. Five-year-olds, plenty of them, but the other ones are mascot size."posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
The Clintons and The Duck go back a LOOONG way.
This could be their Jeremiah Wright moment. #goshdarnamerica
posted by PlusDistance at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
This could be their Jeremiah Wright moment. #goshdarnamerica
posted by PlusDistance at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Duckghazi
posted by neroli at 11:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by neroli at 11:09 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
October 1992: Emilio Estevez vehicle The Mighty Ducks premieres, becoming a surprise hit
November 1992: Bill Clinton elected
COINCIDENCE???
posted by Sys Rq at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [25 favorites]
November 1992: Bill Clinton elected
COINCIDENCE???
posted by Sys Rq at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [25 favorites]
Now all I can think about is a furious Donald Duck jumping up and down at a rally screaming "RIGGED! RIGGED! IT'S ALL RIGGED!"
(Is it possible to screamquack "LUGENMEDIA"? That's gotta be tough on your throat.)
posted by PlusDistance at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
(Is it possible to screamquack "LUGENMEDIA"? That's gotta be tough on your throat.)
posted by PlusDistance at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
As Keepin' It 1600 slightly sniffily noted, modern campaigns are scientific operations reported upon as if they're works of art.
Let me just say that, as an unabashed gear-head, I see zero contradiction in that. If you've properly sicenced the shit out of it, to those familiar with the subject, it should look like the work of art that it is.
posted by VTX at 11:13 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Let me just say that, as an unabashed gear-head, I see zero contradiction in that. If you've properly sicenced the shit out of it, to those familiar with the subject, it should look like the work of art that it is.
posted by VTX at 11:13 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm starting to feel bad for the guy.
Never, ever feel bad for O'Keefe. He's committed sexual assault, helped destroy a program dedicated to helping the needy, and is a serial liar. He's lower than dirt and deserves everything bad that happens to him.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2016 [66 favorites]
Never, ever feel bad for O'Keefe. He's committed sexual assault, helped destroy a program dedicated to helping the needy, and is a serial liar. He's lower than dirt and deserves everything bad that happens to him.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2016 [66 favorites]
If you've properly scienced the shit out of it,
...you should have a shitload of potatoes and a way off the planet...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
...you should have a shitload of potatoes and a way off the planet...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
ArbitraryandCapricious: I still don't understand though--exactly what information, given to you by whom, are you using when you're crossing names off with your black Sharpie? Is the county sending you an e-mail? Or what?
posted by HotToddy at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by HotToddy at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2016
It'll probably be exposed by wikileaks in a dump of campaign strategy correspondence any day now, so I might as well stay ahead of it.
This is from a letter my Girl Scouts wrote to President Obama last month.
posted by phunniemee at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
This is from a letter my Girl Scouts wrote to President Obama last month.
posted by phunniemee at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
You know they think they're getting blown out when even Rush realizes being on the rigged side in a landslide will be embarrassing.
@anamariecox
Listening to Rush Limbaugh rn telling his audience they should not reject polling. Admits he was wrong to question polls in 2012.
posted by chris24 at 11:20 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
@anamariecox
Listening to Rush Limbaugh rn telling his audience they should not reject polling. Admits he was wrong to question polls in 2012.
posted by chris24 at 11:20 AM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Rush Limbaugh ... Admits he was wrong
I am amaze.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
I am amaze.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
I know the Brit Hume thing was awhile ago, but I didn’t see anyone post Caissie St. Onge’s excellent response:
HUME: Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
ST. ONGE: Come do the Fox news in my house for me. You have to because you do it on camera for money. You can't say no.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [74 favorites]
HUME: Woman who has sex on camera for $ says Trump propositioned her. "This is not acceptable behavior." Please.
ST. ONGE: Come do the Fox news in my house for me. You have to because you do it on camera for money. You can't say no.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:22 AM on October 24, 2016 [74 favorites]
@gdebenedetti
And in Arizona, notes the Clinton camp, Democrats lead Republicans by ~1,000 ballots cast, compared to ~20,000 DEFICIT at this point in '12.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
And in Arizona, notes the Clinton camp, Democrats lead Republicans by ~1,000 ballots cast, compared to ~20,000 DEFICIT at this point in '12.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Holy shit! Guys this is really a wave, isn't it?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 11:26 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I still don't understand though--exactly what information, given to you by whom, are you using when you're crossing names off with your black Sharpie? Is the county sending you an e-mail? Or what?I checked. There's a form on the county auditor's website to request voter logs. I assume that's a list of which voters have voted recently. You have to sign a thing that says it's for a legitimate political purpose, and they say it's a crime to use it for anything else. You can ask them to send you daily, weekly or monthly updates, and they'll either print out a hard copy or email you an Excel file. So presumably, they email that to the campaign, and the campaign prints it out and gives it to the people at the staging location, who use the official sharpie to strike the official walk sheets. Like I said, they do this all electronically until the weekend before election day.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's not brain surgery.
Apparently that's Carson's job. Which just scares the crap out of me now.
A friend of mine has done a fair bit of transcription for him. She is full of praise for him for his precision and his relationship with patients, particularly children. This doesn't make him a good political candidate, but being a really bad political candidate who is misinformed about the world outside of his narrow specialization does not in away reflect on his abilities as a doctor.
posted by bardophile at 11:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Apparently that's Carson's job. Which just scares the crap out of me now.
A friend of mine has done a fair bit of transcription for him. She is full of praise for him for his precision and his relationship with patients, particularly children. This doesn't make him a good political candidate, but being a really bad political candidate who is misinformed about the world outside of his narrow specialization does not in away reflect on his abilities as a doctor.
posted by bardophile at 11:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
salix: The Clinton Camp Thinks Native American Voters Could Make The Difference In Arizona
You know what would help if the Clinton Camp wants votes from Native Americans? Put some fucking pro-Native American planks in the platform, starting with stopping the Dakota Access pipeline. I've never even heard of a mainstream politician who seems to give an actual shit about Native Americans, and it's completely shameful to ask for their votes after consistently shitting on them for so long.
If Hillary is different then I'd love to hear about that (and it might help a couple of my friends vote for her instead of casting protest votes) but as far as I know her strategy is the usual one of giving some lipservice to tribal authorities during election season and then just completely abandoning them and crapping all over their needs and concerns the minute the votes are done being counted.
Washington has no interest in even acknowledging the extent of the land theft, forced relocation, treaty breaking, enslavement, cultural genocide, and actual genocide that runs like a red thread through the entire tapestry of the USA's history right up to this day. If Hillary—or any politician—wants Native votes, they should be prepared to do the work to earn them first, before they come crawling to Native people looking for help.
I'm prepared to listen to perspectives from actual Native people, but even as a white guy the very idea that any presidential candidate thinks they have a right to ask for anything from Native Americans just boils my blood. They shouldn't be asking, "Can you please help me get elected?" They should be asking, "How can we help you, how can we begin to make right all the wrong we've done to you?" You want votes? Fucking earn them.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [58 favorites]
You know what would help if the Clinton Camp wants votes from Native Americans? Put some fucking pro-Native American planks in the platform, starting with stopping the Dakota Access pipeline. I've never even heard of a mainstream politician who seems to give an actual shit about Native Americans, and it's completely shameful to ask for their votes after consistently shitting on them for so long.
If Hillary is different then I'd love to hear about that (and it might help a couple of my friends vote for her instead of casting protest votes) but as far as I know her strategy is the usual one of giving some lipservice to tribal authorities during election season and then just completely abandoning them and crapping all over their needs and concerns the minute the votes are done being counted.
Washington has no interest in even acknowledging the extent of the land theft, forced relocation, treaty breaking, enslavement, cultural genocide, and actual genocide that runs like a red thread through the entire tapestry of the USA's history right up to this day. If Hillary—or any politician—wants Native votes, they should be prepared to do the work to earn them first, before they come crawling to Native people looking for help.
I'm prepared to listen to perspectives from actual Native people, but even as a white guy the very idea that any presidential candidate thinks they have a right to ask for anything from Native Americans just boils my blood. They shouldn't be asking, "Can you please help me get elected?" They should be asking, "How can we help you, how can we begin to make right all the wrong we've done to you?" You want votes? Fucking earn them.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [58 favorites]
Let me just say that, as an unabashed gear-head, I see zero contradiction in that. If you've properly sicenced the shit out of it, to those familiar with the subject, it should look like the work of art that it is.
What they meant by that statement was, the results are pretty predictable three weeks out from a presidential election unless the polling has consistently been very very close, because there's been so much research on effective campaigning methods, on the effects of GOTV, on the accuracy of polling at various points out from the election, etc. But people still feel as if things are super likely to change radically in the blink of an eye, even when the factual evidence shows that this is extremely unlikely.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:33 AM on October 24, 2016
What they meant by that statement was, the results are pretty predictable three weeks out from a presidential election unless the polling has consistently been very very close, because there's been so much research on effective campaigning methods, on the effects of GOTV, on the accuracy of polling at various points out from the election, etc. But people still feel as if things are super likely to change radically in the blink of an eye, even when the factual evidence shows that this is extremely unlikely.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:33 AM on October 24, 2016
Wired: In Nevada, Latino Groups Are Finding the Voters Data Can’t
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
what information, given to you by whom, are you using when you're crossing names off with your black Sharpie?
Walk lists and phone lists for canvassers and phone bankers, given to volunteers by campaign field offices.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:35 AM on October 24, 2016
Walk lists and phone lists for canvassers and phone bankers, given to volunteers by campaign field offices.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:35 AM on October 24, 2016
133,000 Latinos have already cast ballots in Florida. That is a 99% increase over 2012
oh donny u came to the wrong neighborhood motherfucker
posted by poffin boffin at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [51 favorites]
oh donny u came to the wrong neighborhood motherfucker
posted by poffin boffin at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [51 favorites]
Trump on porn actress who accused him of misconduct: 'Oh, I'm sure she's never been grabbed before'
posted by chris24 at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Trump on porn actress who accused him of misconduct: 'Oh, I'm sure she's never been grabbed before'
"No no no! Dig up stupid" [fake]
posted by Talez at 11:39 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
"No no no! Dig up stupid" [fake]
posted by Talez at 11:39 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Holy shit! Guys this is really a wave, isn't it?
TTTCS
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
TTTCS
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
A Twitter friend in Texas tweeted this pic of the line where she went to vote today (first day early voting). And mentioned that last time she went, she was only the 32nd person.
I think I'm going to have to take a long lunch to get my early voting done this week.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think I'm going to have to take a long lunch to get my early voting done this week.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Qanta Ahmed -- As a Muslim American, I will vote my conscience this November. By abstaining:
I am an American Muslim with one vote, and no person for whom to cast it. I became a citizen less than a year ago. This is my first election and yet, I won’t be joining the millions of other Americans going to the polls.posted by Freelance Demiurge at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
[...]
Clinton’s complicity in entrenching and upholding the United States in drone wars troubles me most. During his eight years of his administration, President Barack Obama has authorized and legitimized drone operations to an unprecedented degree, overshadowing any operations under President George W Bush. Clinton was secretary of state for four years during that time, and she was twice elected senator to New York before that, vocally supporting drones.
[...]
A vote for Gary Johnson would endorse a candidate who cannot identify Aleppo or a foreign leader. A vote for Jill Stein empowers an admirer of Vladimir Putin who would assert US power to maintain Assad in Syria.
A vote for Trump (irrespective of Mike Pence’s hollow denials) would legitimize the demonization of Muslims like me.
Andy Ostroy: My Wife’s Killer Was Not an ‘Illegal Immigrant’
It’s politically expedient for xenophobic agitators like Mr. Trump to scapegoat the millions of foreigners who have come to the United States in search of a better life. But his malevolence toward immigrants runs counter to the principles on which our great nation was founded. It’s disheartening to see so many people being swept out to sea in a riptide of ignorance and hate.posted by zombieflanders at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
America was created by, is governed by and — with the exception of Native Americans — is inhabited by immigrants and their descendants, generations of whom came here to escape religious and ethnic persecution. That millions of people face a similar fate on our soil is deplorable. We should be thanking them, as America’s greatness is attributed to their blood, sweat, vision, perseverance, dedication and brilliance.
While I believe that the country must do more to secure its borders, deport noncitizen criminals and protect Americans from foreign terrorists, I also believe we must find a realistic, humane path to citizenship for the millions of decent, hard-working immigrants who love this country as much as I do, regardless of whether they are documented or not. We need the kind of compassionate reform that Democrats have been advocating for decades in the face of persistent Republican obstructionism.
That is what Adrienne would want.
Trump took $17 million in insurance for damage few remember:
PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Donald Trump said he received a $17 million insurance payment in 2005 for hurricane damage to Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Palm Beach, but The Associated Press found little evidence of such large-scale damage.
Two years after a series of storms, the real estate tycoon said he didn't know how much had been spent on repairs but acknowledged he pocketed some of the money. Trump transferred funds into his personal accounts, saying that under the terms of his policy, "you didn't have to reinvest it."
In a deposition in an unrelated civil lawsuit, Trump said he got the cash from a "very good insurance policy" and cited ongoing work to the historic home.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Donald Trump said he received a $17 million insurance payment in 2005 for hurricane damage to Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Palm Beach, but The Associated Press found little evidence of such large-scale damage.
Two years after a series of storms, the real estate tycoon said he didn't know how much had been spent on repairs but acknowledged he pocketed some of the money. Trump transferred funds into his personal accounts, saying that under the terms of his policy, "you didn't have to reinvest it."
In a deposition in an unrelated civil lawsuit, Trump said he got the cash from a "very good insurance policy" and cited ongoing work to the historic home.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
"Oh, I'm sure he's never been underwater before," said the evil villain about the swimmer he just kidnapped, locked in a chamber, and is in the process of slowly drowning.
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016
It's a wave when the votes are actually counted, not until then. The polls are almost certainly going to get closer before Nov 8, if only because Trump will have no more debate stages to do stupid stuff on.
posted by tavella at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Qanta Ahmed -- As a Muslim American, I will vote my conscience this November. By abstaining:
that'll learn 'em!
posted by entropicamericana at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [25 favorites]
that'll learn 'em!
posted by entropicamericana at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [25 favorites]
Trump took $17 million in insurance for damage few remember
-no permits for construction were ever filed, town has no record of any permit requests (the type of damage recorded would have requried permits to fix)
-DJT Jr's wedding was held there shortly after, with pics showing little to no damage
-no records of what construction actually happened, if any
-the insurance agent who handles his account is a friend and "led the charge" to get the $17M payout (can anyone say kickbacks?)
posted by melissasaurus at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [35 favorites]
Donald Trump said he received a $17 million insurance payment in 2005 for hurricane damage to Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Palm Beach, but The Associated Press found little evidence of such large-scale damage.-no one remembers there being extensive damage, including his longtime butler
-no permits for construction were ever filed, town has no record of any permit requests (the type of damage recorded would have requried permits to fix)
-DJT Jr's wedding was held there shortly after, with pics showing little to no damage
-no records of what construction actually happened, if any
-the insurance agent who handles his account is a friend and "led the charge" to get the $17M payout (can anyone say kickbacks?)
posted by melissasaurus at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2016 [35 favorites]
chris24: "Trump on porn actress who accused him of misconduct: 'Oh, I'm sure she's never been grabbed before'"
Psst, dude, she still thinks that everyone who's grabbed her non-consensually is a piece of shit; she didn't say you were the only one
(Seriously, read any porn star's account of an adult film industry expo and you'll hear all about how one in every five dudes who poses for a photo with an actress thinks they're entitled to put their hand on her ass or something)
(Don't even get me started on strippers, whose customers almost always know the ground rules ahead of time, yet some of them are determined to test boundaries)
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Psst, dude, she still thinks that everyone who's grabbed her non-consensually is a piece of shit; she didn't say you were the only one
(Seriously, read any porn star's account of an adult film industry expo and you'll hear all about how one in every five dudes who poses for a photo with an actress thinks they're entitled to put their hand on her ass or something)
(Don't even get me started on strippers, whose customers almost always know the ground rules ahead of time, yet some of them are determined to test boundaries)
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:44 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
> The new video from James O’Keefe suggests that Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
The Twenty-Three "Biblical" Plagues of the 2016 Election, in approximate chronological order:
1. Death of Antonin Scalia
2. GOP Primary Candidates
3. Zika
4. Water Into Lead
5. Blood (From Wherever)
6. Leaked E-Mails
7. Third-Party Candidates
8. Shootings
9. Merediths
10. Polls (all of them)
11. Historic Newspaper Endorsements
12. Jimmy Fallon
13.Frogs Rare Pepes
14. Hurricane Matthew
15. Pneumonia
16. Baskets of Deplorables
17. Nazis
18. Bad Hombres / Nasty Women
19. Ducks
20. [to be determined]
21. [to be determined]
(--Election happens here--)
22. Darkness For Three To Five Days
23. Lawsuits
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [71 favorites]
The Twenty-Three "Biblical" Plagues of the 2016 Election, in approximate chronological order:
1. Death of Antonin Scalia
2. GOP Primary Candidates
3. Zika
4. Water Into Lead
5. Blood (From Wherever)
6. Leaked E-Mails
7. Third-Party Candidates
8. Shootings
9. Merediths
10. Polls (all of them)
11. Historic Newspaper Endorsements
12. Jimmy Fallon
13.
14. Hurricane Matthew
15. Pneumonia
16. Baskets of Deplorables
17. Nazis
18. Bad Hombres / Nasty Women
19. Ducks
20. [to be determined]
21. [to be determined]
22. Darkness For Three To Five Days
23. Lawsuits
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [71 favorites]
Holy shit! Guys this is really a wave, isn't it?
Please y'all stop tempting the wrath of the thing atop the dingus.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [55 favorites]
Please y'all stop tempting the wrath of the thing atop the dingus.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [55 favorites]
> TBH I'm a little bummed that Hillary isn't a Mets fan.
You and me both!
posted by languagehat at 11:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
You and me both!
posted by languagehat at 11:51 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Seriously, if anybody knows of anything Hillary has stated she plans to do with regard to Native Americans (other than pretend they don't exist) I would love to hear about it. Even if it's something bad. As I said above I'm not Native myself, but I think it's deeply shameful the way the power elite in this country ignores and shits on them by turns, and I've been wondering what if anything Hillary has to say about that.
Her campaign site has a page about Native concerns, but to me it looks like the usual mealy-mouthed bullshit about listening and advisement and about how her policies will help Native Americans by helping all Americans. Her resume section down at the bottom where she talks about her accomplishments in that area is brief and vague, with her biggest accomplishment being a feel-good vote on a UN Declaration.
I didn't find one single piece of policy planning in there, nor was there any mention of her position on the Dakota Access pipeline, which right now seems like the #1 issue by far on the minds of all the Native folks I'm connected to. My Facebook feed is a flood of posts about police abuse of protesters out at Standing Rock, and her campaign is totally silent on the issue. Exactly what I expected, and totally deplorable.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Her campaign site has a page about Native concerns, but to me it looks like the usual mealy-mouthed bullshit about listening and advisement and about how her policies will help Native Americans by helping all Americans. Her resume section down at the bottom where she talks about her accomplishments in that area is brief and vague, with her biggest accomplishment being a feel-good vote on a UN Declaration.
I didn't find one single piece of policy planning in there, nor was there any mention of her position on the Dakota Access pipeline, which right now seems like the #1 issue by far on the minds of all the Native folks I'm connected to. My Facebook feed is a flood of posts about police abuse of protesters out at Standing Rock, and her campaign is totally silent on the issue. Exactly what I expected, and totally deplorable.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:52 AM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
The new video from James O’Keefe suggests that Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
Way to make me vote for her even harder, O'Keefe!
posted by invincible summer at 11:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Way to make me vote for her even harder, O'Keefe!
posted by invincible summer at 11:53 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
I still don't understand though--exactly what information, given to you by whom, are you using when you're crossing names off with your black Sharpie? Is the county sending you an e-mail? Or what?
Here is how it works in Oregon, where we have a roughly three-week, all-vote-by-mail voting period (other states may have similar processes):
-Counties report back received ballots to the Secretary of State. This is supposed to happen daily, but some counties get a few days behind, for a variety of possible reasons.
-The Secretary of State's office puts out a nightly "matchback" file to those who have subscribed to this particular service, which is really just a list of voter database ID#'s of those who have voted.
-Each night or super early the next morning, campaign (or state party) data staff import this list into VAN (or whatever database non-dems use), batch-marking each of these voters as "already voted."
- Before GOTV begins that morning, campaign staff (or, sometimes, trusted volunteers) either pull new lists of voters to contact for GOTV purposes, or, as A&C notes above, go through their existing paper lists marking off those who have already voted.
posted by dersins at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here is how it works in Oregon, where we have a roughly three-week, all-vote-by-mail voting period (other states may have similar processes):
-Counties report back received ballots to the Secretary of State. This is supposed to happen daily, but some counties get a few days behind, for a variety of possible reasons.
-The Secretary of State's office puts out a nightly "matchback" file to those who have subscribed to this particular service, which is really just a list of voter database ID#'s of those who have voted.
-Each night or super early the next morning, campaign (or state party) data staff import this list into VAN (or whatever database non-dems use), batch-marking each of these voters as "already voted."
- Before GOTV begins that morning, campaign staff (or, sometimes, trusted volunteers) either pull new lists of voters to contact for GOTV purposes, or, as A&C notes above, go through their existing paper lists marking off those who have already voted.
posted by dersins at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
DC early voters may want to check the handy Early Voter Wait Time page from the DC BOE. Only one center is open right now, the other 8 open on Friday.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
You know what would help if the Clinton Camp wants votes from Native Americans? Put some fucking pro-Native American planks in the platform, starting with stopping the Dakota Access pipeline.
Yes, THIS, thank you Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The.
Right now, in the United States of America, there is an internationally historic protest involving what probably is the single largest gathering of independent tribes in the history of this planet, who are subject to police abuse daily, and it's over what I consider to be Clinton's weakest point, energy policy and oil exploitation. The fact that she has remained silent on the issue is fucking telling. The fact that the protest isn't headline news daily is fucking telling.
I'm still voting for her, but there's a reason that I don't adore her. She has problems that are going to require us to hold her feet to the fire to fix, and this is one of them. I just really fucking wish we didn't have to make our liberal leaders, you know, actually act like fucking liberals.
posted by neonrev at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [59 favorites]
Yes, THIS, thank you Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The.
Right now, in the United States of America, there is an internationally historic protest involving what probably is the single largest gathering of independent tribes in the history of this planet, who are subject to police abuse daily, and it's over what I consider to be Clinton's weakest point, energy policy and oil exploitation. The fact that she has remained silent on the issue is fucking telling. The fact that the protest isn't headline news daily is fucking telling.
I'm still voting for her, but there's a reason that I don't adore her. She has problems that are going to require us to hold her feet to the fire to fix, and this is one of them. I just really fucking wish we didn't have to make our liberal leaders, you know, actually act like fucking liberals.
posted by neonrev at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2016 [59 favorites]
Qanta Ahmed -- As a Muslim American, I will vote my conscience this November. By abstaining...
... Even as the groundswell to enlist the Muslim vote deepens, I find I am compelled to sit this election out. When it came to this presidential election, though America grants me both suffrage and safe harbor, my American Muslim ballot has nowhere to land.
If she sticks to the kind of standard she is laying out on this piece, her ballot may never have a place to land. I worry that she isn't thinking about how the Muslim vote only gains political influence if it is exercised. I know she has a right to her view and that abstaining is a legitimate choice. I just don't see it as a very useful tool.
posted by bardophile at 11:58 AM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
As a Senator from NY, Hillary has had more reason to interact with Native American communities than you might imagine. Where I live, the Oneida Reservation is the third largest employer of people of all backgrounds due to their casino, gas station, spa resort, and convention businesses, so she's seen first hand how an empowered Native community can help an economically depressed area recover from massive plant closures.
Her web site has a Native issues position paper, which I find heartening, and a short excerpt of her record.
Her web site has a Native issues position paper, which I find heartening, and a short excerpt of her record.
As Secretary of State, Hillary supported the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which continues to make critical contributions to our Native American policies. The Declaration has and continues to strengthen the vital government-to-government relationship between the U.S. and tribes.posted by xyzzy at 12:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
As Senator from New York, Hillary sponsored and fought for legislation to give tribes greater representation in advisory groups and direct access to federal grants in a variety of ways, from health care and law enforcement, to environmental justice and infant care. She repeatedly co-sponsored legislation to improve health care for Native Americans, including breast and cancer treatment and obesity. She cosponsored the Indian Health Care Improvement Act Amendment of 2007. She also worked to improve Tribal colleges and other Native institutions and supported measures to protect Native American women from domestic violence and sexual abuse.
Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump
Surely they were going for Scrooge McDuck.
posted by srboisvert at 12:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Surely they were going for Scrooge McDuck.
posted by srboisvert at 12:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Freelance Demiurge: "Qanta Ahmed -- As a Muslim American, I will vote my conscience this November. By abstaining:"
Maybe this is what “vote your conscience” actually means to everyone else and I've just been misconstruing it all my life, but these arguments always seem to boil down to: “I can't vote for the least of all evils because, based solely on my personal conception of politics, it would make me a Person Who Voted For X, and I cannot allow that to be part of my identity.”
Obviously we're dealing with an imperfect system here, but this is a bit like saying “I cannot play professionally in a sport where the referees occasionally get calls completely wrong, even after further review.” Why not? Why does your moral code demand perfection from others? And doesn't that reflect worse on you than it does on the sport?
Like, I get how, when there seem to be no good options, enthusiasm is dampened and people go “oh, hell, what's the point of waiting in line?” and just skip out on voting entirely. But most of them don't get self-righteous about it. Even when you write a thoughtful essay about it, non-participation in elections is indistinguishable from apathy. Voter turnout has sucked in plenty of past elections, and I don't remember that it's ever served as a wake-up call to elected officials to suddenly be more responsive to the hordes of people who punished them by withholding their votes.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [23 favorites]
Maybe this is what “vote your conscience” actually means to everyone else and I've just been misconstruing it all my life, but these arguments always seem to boil down to: “I can't vote for the least of all evils because, based solely on my personal conception of politics, it would make me a Person Who Voted For X, and I cannot allow that to be part of my identity.”
Obviously we're dealing with an imperfect system here, but this is a bit like saying “I cannot play professionally in a sport where the referees occasionally get calls completely wrong, even after further review.” Why not? Why does your moral code demand perfection from others? And doesn't that reflect worse on you than it does on the sport?
Like, I get how, when there seem to be no good options, enthusiasm is dampened and people go “oh, hell, what's the point of waiting in line?” and just skip out on voting entirely. But most of them don't get self-righteous about it. Even when you write a thoughtful essay about it, non-participation in elections is indistinguishable from apathy. Voter turnout has sucked in plenty of past elections, and I don't remember that it's ever served as a wake-up call to elected officials to suddenly be more responsive to the hordes of people who punished them by withholding their votes.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [23 favorites]
I voted today and decided to check to see if it already shows on the NC website.
Less than four hours after I voted the state board of elections voter information site does show me as casting an absentee ballot in-person today.
That's fast!
posted by winna at 12:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Less than four hours after I voted the state board of elections voter information site does show me as casting an absentee ballot in-person today.
That's fast!
posted by winna at 12:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
TTTCS
wat
Urbandictionary is your friend. It's got several definitions:
Talk to the Church of Scientology
[I] Think that this cabbage sucks
Trash talk that Columbus shithead
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
wat
Urbandictionary is your friend. It's got several definitions:
Talk to the Church of Scientology
[I] Think that this cabbage sucks
Trash talk that Columbus shithead
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
I saw that page xyzzy, and I thought it could have used a lot more detail. It reads like my resume does when I'm trying to stretch for a job that I'm not quite fully qualified for based on the advertisement. And I completely agree with neonrev that the fact that her page is totally silent about the massive, ongoing police abuse of peaceful Native protesters that is happening right at this moment, right while we are talking is incredibly telling.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
To add on, I don't get why abstaining from voting is the ultimate anti-US-imperialism-as-enacted-upon-Muslim-bodies move. How does one's conscience allow one to pledge allegiance to the US flag in a citizenship ceremony but simultaneously prevent one from casting a vote for Clinton, Johnson, or Stein? I don't get it.
posted by bardophile at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Presidential Campaigns Spend $40 Per Vote In 1 Arizona County (Planet Money, NPR, October 24, 2016)
That county is Greenlee County, Arizona, with less than 10,000 people in 1,848 sq mi (4,786 km2).
And some jokes on Trump's "Gettysburg Address"
And if you're looking for some shorthand for that speech, Media Matters has a round-up of coverage of what they call the "Grievanceburg Address."
(Full video and transcript from C-SPAN)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
That county is Greenlee County, Arizona, with less than 10,000 people in 1,848 sq mi (4,786 km2).
And some jokes on Trump's "Gettysburg Address"
GREENE: Jonah, let me start with you. What'd you think of Trump's Gettysburg Address if we can call it that?Yes, election coverage has gotten to the point where journalists and political pundits must include [Real] and [Fake] tags in their comments, because no one can really be sure any more. But I like hearing pundits laughing at how absurd this all is.
GOLDBERG: (Laughter) Well, I thought there was a lot of substantive policy stuff in it - some good, some bad or some debatable. But the fact is no one's going to talk about it because he opened his speech, I guess, following in the tradition of Lincoln by calling all the women liars who said that he groped them. I mean, it was...
GREENE: What do you mean by that? Just so people understand.
GOLDBERG: I'm being sarcastic.
GREENE: OK (laughter).
GOLDBERG: Because - and in fact, Abraham Lincoln at his Gettysburg Address did not say all the women accusing him of sexual assault were liars.
GREENE: Yes.
GOLDBERG: He saved that for the Cooper Union speech which is a completely different thing.
ROBERTS: (Laughter).
And if you're looking for some shorthand for that speech, Media Matters has a round-up of coverage of what they call the "Grievanceburg Address."
(Full video and transcript from C-SPAN)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump on porn actress who accused him of misconduct: 'Oh, I'm sure she's never been grabbed before'
Jesus, every time I think he can't possibly say anything more vile.
Anybody want to come with me to the next rally he does around here? You can distract the Secret Service while I punch him in the dick. It's not like he's never been punched in the dick before. I bet he'll even secretly enjoy it a little. [not even sure what's real or fake anymore]
posted by Mayor West at 12:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jesus, every time I think he can't possibly say anything more vile.
Anybody want to come with me to the next rally he does around here? You can distract the Secret Service while I punch him in the dick. It's not like he's never been punched in the dick before. I bet he'll even secretly enjoy it a little. [not even sure what's real or fake anymore]
posted by Mayor West at 12:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Have any fellow Californians received their vote-by-mail ballots yet? I recently moved and had to reregister a few weeks back and while I've received a confirmation in the mail, my sample ballots, etc., the actual ballot hasn't come yet. Should I be concerned?
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:05 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:05 PM on October 24, 2016
"I'm deeply troubled by the events taking place at the DAPL protest on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation, and as president I would work to ensure that Native communities are fully involved in any federally regulated action on Reservation land, and that all treaties are respected and upheld."
It's seriously not a hard thing to say, and if she wanted to actually, personally show support for the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, she could show support for Native people who are protesting an example of the federal government she intends to lead ignoring their input and concerns and allowing a private corporation to threaten their water safety and destroy their sacred burial sites. A thing that Declaration is aimed against.
This ain't a far leftist thing, there are treaties that are being ignored. This is basic functions of the federal government here.
posted by neonrev at 12:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [27 favorites]
It's seriously not a hard thing to say, and if she wanted to actually, personally show support for the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, she could show support for Native people who are protesting an example of the federal government she intends to lead ignoring their input and concerns and allowing a private corporation to threaten their water safety and destroy their sacred burial sites. A thing that Declaration is aimed against.
This ain't a far leftist thing, there are treaties that are being ignored. This is basic functions of the federal government here.
posted by neonrev at 12:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [27 favorites]
Grievanceburg Address
Gettysburg Redress, surely.
posted by cortex at 12:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
Gettysburg Redress, surely.
posted by cortex at 12:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
Florida early voting report!! My parents just cast their votes for Hillary, Murphy, and the rest of the Dem slate and received "I Voted Early" stickers! The process was very simple. The wait time was less than five minutes and they used paper Scantron-style ballots. Overall they were impressed with the smoothness of the operation and the friendliness of the poll workers.
posted by xyzzy at 12:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
downtohisturtles, I already got and returned my actual ballot, but never got my sample ballot. It might have been accidentally tossed out with the junk mail. I'd check with your new county, but I feel like most people should have gotten their ballots by now.
posted by yasaman at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Have any fellow Californians received their vote-by-mail ballots yet? I recently moved and had to reregister a few weeks back and while I've received a confirmation in the mail, my sample ballots, etc., the actual ballot hasn't come yet. Should I be concerned?
My county has a website where you can punch in your information and it show you the status of your vote-by-mail ballot (requested, mailed, we got it back, counted, there's a problem and you need to call us, etc...). Check your local elections website to see if they offer something similar. If not, I'd give their office a call to check.
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
My county has a website where you can punch in your information and it show you the status of your vote-by-mail ballot (requested, mailed, we got it back, counted, there's a problem and you need to call us, etc...). Check your local elections website to see if they offer something similar. If not, I'd give their office a call to check.
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Surely they were going for Scrooge McDuck.
No, Scrooge McDuck is a billionaire.
posted by condour75 at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [65 favorites]
No, Scrooge McDuck is a billionaire.
posted by condour75 at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [65 favorites]
The abstention is a pretty meaningless gesture in itself, but abstaining and writing an article about it for the Guardian seems a lot more meaningful.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Have any fellow Californians received their vote-by-mail ballots yet?
I received mine about two weeks ago but was already registered at my current address before this year. Check out the voter status and ballot status pages at the Sec of State website.
I mailed mine back last Thursday but it does not show as received yet. I am in SF.
posted by psoas at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I received mine about two weeks ago but was already registered at my current address before this year. Check out the voter status and ballot status pages at the Sec of State website.
I mailed mine back last Thursday but it does not show as received yet. I am in SF.
posted by psoas at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Have any fellow Californians received their vote-by-mail ballots yet? I recently moved and had to reregister a few weeks back and while I've received a confirmation in the mail, my sample ballots, etc., the actual ballot hasn't come yet. Should I be concerned?
You can go to the Secretary of State's website to find a link to your county's website where you can check the ballot status. It'll say when/if it was mailed and when/if it was received and tallied, at least in the case of LA County.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
You can go to the Secretary of State's website to find a link to your county's website where you can check the ballot status. It'll say when/if it was mailed and when/if it was received and tallied, at least in the case of LA County.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
If Native folks heard Hillary come out unambiguously against the DAPL and in support of the Standing Rock protesters, I feel like that alone would get them to the polls in record numbers, not to mention putting some serious wind in the sails of the people who are out there standing in the way of the bulldozers and getting roughed up by the police. If they thought that there was a good chance of winning this fight if only Hillary gets elected and they can hold out until her inauguration, they'd crawl over hot coals to vote for her. This issue is incredibly important to them, despite the near-total radio silence from the mainstream media.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [36 favorites]
Presumably there are far more voting locations on the day of the election, but are there laws about the number of voters served by each polling place?
Precincts are a certain size, but some locations serve multiple precincts. This is especially true in dense areas like Manhattan where a single building could conceivably be its own precinct, but NYC provides plenty of well-staffed locations.
The longest queues on election day itself tend to be at inner-burb locations where lots of precincts have been consolidated under one roof to cut costs, while providing the same number of machines. Put bluntly: rich white people get the nicest voting facilities, and even in middle-income diverse counties, minority areas get the shitty end of the stick, because middle-class white people complain to the county about being inconvenienced.
a lot of the long lines you see are caused by deliberate decisions that are intended to slow down voting in particular precincts.
In NC, the GOP-run legislature removed straight-ticket voting on partisan races, so instead of filling in one bubble to vote Dem/GOP for all the State Commissioner of Widgets races, you have to fill them all in separately. Probably takes about 15-20 minutes if you double-check everything.
posted by holgate at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Precincts are a certain size, but some locations serve multiple precincts. This is especially true in dense areas like Manhattan where a single building could conceivably be its own precinct, but NYC provides plenty of well-staffed locations.
The longest queues on election day itself tend to be at inner-burb locations where lots of precincts have been consolidated under one roof to cut costs, while providing the same number of machines. Put bluntly: rich white people get the nicest voting facilities, and even in middle-income diverse counties, minority areas get the shitty end of the stick, because middle-class white people complain to the county about being inconvenienced.
a lot of the long lines you see are caused by deliberate decisions that are intended to slow down voting in particular precincts.
In NC, the GOP-run legislature removed straight-ticket voting on partisan races, so instead of filling in one bubble to vote Dem/GOP for all the State Commissioner of Widgets races, you have to fill them all in separately. Probably takes about 15-20 minutes if you double-check everything.
posted by holgate at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
.@SybrinaFulton, (Trayvon Martin's mother) (video): "There is no excuse for you not to vote...your life depends on it."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
OK, checking the voter status page psoas linked shows I'm registered at the right address and that I'm signed up to vote by mail. And the SoS website shows it was mailed on the 11th. If I don't receive it soon I'll call them. I don't mind voting in person if I have to, but it's not my preference.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am assuming that TTTCS means turn, turn, turn, curse, spit - a time-honored method of showing that one is not tempting the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing.
posted by Chanther at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by Chanther at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
Hey Spathe Cadet, hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died, maybe that goes on your list also.
posted by emjaybee at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
> the thing I am most scared of is that hackers will break into the internet voting apparatus available in many many states
Guess I'm out of touch. I thought there was a risk of systems used to transmit votes from machines at polling places to be counted maybe using the internet instead of modems over switched analog phone lines, remember those? or the registration databases being hacked, but no. internet voting is actually a thing. In 32 states! From the article: 'Neil Jenkins, an official in the Office of Cybersecurity and Communications at the Department of Homeland Security... “does not recommend the adoption of online voting for elections at any level of government at this time.”'
Good for overseas voters, but mail-in absentee ballots seem to have better built-in protection.
All this talk of early voting led me to check my county & it's available, so I'm going to cycle to a library where they're doing it this Sunday.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Guess I'm out of touch. I thought there was a risk of systems used to transmit votes from machines at polling places to be counted maybe using the internet instead of modems over switched analog phone lines, remember those? or the registration databases being hacked, but no. internet voting is actually a thing. In 32 states! From the article: 'Neil Jenkins, an official in the Office of Cybersecurity and Communications at the Department of Homeland Security... “does not recommend the adoption of online voting for elections at any level of government at this time.”'
Good for overseas voters, but mail-in absentee ballots seem to have better built-in protection.
All this talk of early voting led me to check my county & it's available, so I'm going to cycle to a library where they're doing it this Sunday.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Atlantic: Clinton's Careful Courtship of Muslim Voters
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm still voting for her, but there's a reason that I don't adore her. She has problems that are going to require us to hold her feet to the fire to fix, and this is one of them. I just really fucking wish we didn't have to make our liberal leaders, you know, actually act like fucking liberals.
At least her feet can be held to the fire. It doesn't really seem possible to reason with Donald right now, if it ever was. He strikes me as the kind of person who, facing possible impeachment, would attempt to declare martial law.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
At least her feet can be held to the fire. It doesn't really seem possible to reason with Donald right now, if it ever was. He strikes me as the kind of person who, facing possible impeachment, would attempt to declare martial law.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
And before you say "how can you know it's so important, you're not even a Native American," I know because every Native person I know is physically there protesting, right now. Broke-ass people have been dropping everything and scraping together cash any way they can just to get gas money to get out there and put themselves in the way of this thing. And they're getting the shit kicked out of them by cops, every day. The silence from the media and the campaigns is deafening and I know for a fact that it's turning off voters because I know more than one person who has said that Hillary's lack of voice on this issue makes her look hypocritical to the point where they can't imagine putting their support behind her.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
so she's seen first hand how an empowered Native community can help an economically depressed area recover from massive plant closures.
And seen Trump call Mohawks criminals, and object to Foxwoods by saying "they don’t look like Indians to me."
posted by holgate at 12:27 PM on October 24, 2016
And seen Trump call Mohawks criminals, and object to Foxwoods by saying "they don’t look like Indians to me."
posted by holgate at 12:27 PM on October 24, 2016
I know we always talk about how Republicans kick the Democrats' asses at the local level, consistently fielding decent candidates and supporting them, but this is ridiculous. I'm researching my ballot here in Texas and these have been the last three Democrat candidates I've researched:
-Supreme Court, Place 9: Savannah Robinson, whose entire online presence seems to be this facebook page that can be summed up as "lol im bad at campaigning". Other than that after a bit of googling I was only able to find one "interview" which is just one quote in a roundup by the Austin paper.
-Court of Criminal Appeals, Place 2: Larry Meyers! The only Democrat holding statewide office! Because he switched parties 3 years ago halfway through his term... Also in a Stanford University study of judges "attempting to determine partisan ideology" "Meyers received a campaign finance score of 1.12, indicating a conservative ideological leaning. This is more conservative than the average score of 0.91 that justices received in Texas." Anyways I'll still probably vote for this guy even though he's a conservative Republican running as a Democrat.
-Court of Criminal Appeals, Place 5: At least Savannah had a facebook page, Betsy Johnson has no visible campaign presence and in the Dallas Morning News endorsement of her Republican opponent, they state
-Supreme Court, Place 9: Savannah Robinson, whose entire online presence seems to be this facebook page that can be summed up as "lol im bad at campaigning". Other than that after a bit of googling I was only able to find one "interview" which is just one quote in a roundup by the Austin paper.
-Court of Criminal Appeals, Place 2: Larry Meyers! The only Democrat holding statewide office! Because he switched parties 3 years ago halfway through his term... Also in a Stanford University study of judges "attempting to determine partisan ideology" "Meyers received a campaign finance score of 1.12, indicating a conservative ideological leaning. This is more conservative than the average score of 0.91 that justices received in Texas." Anyways I'll still probably vote for this guy even though he's a conservative Republican running as a Democrat.
-Court of Criminal Appeals, Place 5: At least Savannah had a facebook page, Betsy Johnson has no visible campaign presence and in the Dallas Morning News endorsement of her Republican opponent, they state
To our readers who have a natural inclination to generally favor Democratic candidates, please give these next few sentences great heed. A vote for Betsy Johnson, of San Antonio, who may or may not be earning a livelihood as a lawyer these days, strikes us as reckless. She doesn't return our phone calls nor respond to requests to fill out a candidate questionnaire or attend an interview. She was removed from the Bexar County appointed attorney list by the criminal district court judges in June 2011 after multiple cases of refusing to represent defendants who declined to plead guilty. Not only can we find no shred of evidence that she's qualified for this job, reports from the Bexar courthouse indicate her conduct was boorish and unrestrained.posted by DynamiteToast at 12:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Field report: still calling locals to gauge support / get volunteers. Noticeably more volunteers in the office today. Recruited an additional three myself.
Marylanders: Note that Early Voting now includes the ability to register at the site. This is not true on election day. If you're not registered by now, you need to vote early.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Marylanders: Note that Early Voting now includes the ability to register at the site. This is not true on election day. If you're not registered by now, you need to vote early.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
A libertarian puts a HRC sign in his yard and has some feelings about it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Chicagoians, the city of chicago opened what they are calling the super voting center with more than 100 electronic ballot machines available. It is at 15 W Washington St. All early voting of chicago can be found here.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
The new video from James O’Keefe suggests that Hillary Clinton was involved in a plan to have protesters in Donald Duck costumes follow around Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
<Tim Kaine> "They're saying Mr. Trump's being followed by protesters in Donald Duck costumes. It must be working because he's quacking up!</Tim Kaine> — [fake]
posted by octobersurprise at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
<Tim Kaine> "They're saying Mr. Trump's being followed by protesters in Donald Duck costumes. It must be working because he's quacking up!</Tim Kaine> — [fake]
posted by octobersurprise at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The: Seriously, if anybody knows of anything Hillary has stated she plans to do with regard to Native Americans (other than pretend they don't exist) I would love to hear about it. Even if it's something bad. As I said above I'm not Native myself, but I think it's deeply shameful the way the power elite in this country ignores and shits on them by turns, and I've been wondering what if anything Hillary has to say about that.
According to BBC (Aug. 17, 2016), Hillary Clinton ran campaign ads in Navajo and met with tribal leaders in Iowa, Washington, Arizona and California during the presidential primaries. (But in comparison, Bernie Sanders met with 90 leaders in total, a political record.)
Native Americans At DNC 2016: Delegates Say Hillary Clinton's Substance Must Match Diversity Seen In Philadelphia (International Business Times, 7/ 28/16).
DAPL is a tough issue, because I fear it's one that liberal politicians who are up for election don't discuss in an attempt to be more moderate and win their election. I have hope Hillary will address the situation.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
According to BBC (Aug. 17, 2016), Hillary Clinton ran campaign ads in Navajo and met with tribal leaders in Iowa, Washington, Arizona and California during the presidential primaries. (But in comparison, Bernie Sanders met with 90 leaders in total, a political record.)
Native Americans At DNC 2016: Delegates Say Hillary Clinton's Substance Must Match Diversity Seen In Philadelphia (International Business Times, 7/ 28/16).
Peregoy said many Native American delegates supported Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who repeatedly visited tribes on the campaign trail to discuss issues they cared about, including land use and environnmental issues. Clinton didn’t make the same overtures during the primaries, so she didn't drum up the same support, Peregoy and others said.The article goes on to say that Obama did a good job coordinating and working with Native Americans in his time in office, so I think between that groundwork and Sanders's recent outreach, Hillary will get a running start. We'll see if she can keep the momentum.
...
Delegates said they'd like to hear Clinton take a page from Obama’s book when it comes to Native American rights. Under his administration, the federal government moved to pass the HEARTH Act (which promoted tribal sovereignty), permanently reauthorized the Indian Health Care Improvement Act, expanded protections for women on tribal lands and worked to resolve litigation between the federal government and tribal governments, some of which are over one hundred years old.
DAPL is a tough issue, because I fear it's one that liberal politicians who are up for election don't discuss in an attempt to be more moderate and win their election. I have hope Hillary will address the situation.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died....
hold the phone WHAT
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
hold the phone WHAT
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
The amount of interest I have in reading about the precious feels of privileged libertarians this election wouldn't fill a thimble. Get with the program or don't, but don't expect me to listen to your Deep Thoughts on the matter.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
A libertarian puts a HRC sign in his yard and has some feelings about it.
This is a great tweetstorm.
posted by chris24 at 12:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is a great tweetstorm.
posted by chris24 at 12:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Dropped my ballot in the box an hour ago, and for the rest of the day I'm gonna be like THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
posted by Existential Dread at 12:34 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 12:34 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died....
hold the phone WHAT
Yesterday, per Wikipedia
posted by teirnon at 12:34 PM on October 24, 2016
hold the phone WHAT
Yesterday, per Wikipedia
posted by teirnon at 12:34 PM on October 24, 2016
Derek Davison at Lobelog: "Islamophobia in the Age of Trump"
This uptick in anti-Muslim activity seems to correlate with the onset of the 2016 campaign cycle. A study released in May by Georgetown University’s Bridge Initiative found that incidents of anti-Muslim violence began increasing in March 2015, which roughly coincided with the start of the primary campaign process. That study noted the degree to which anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim rhetoric played a role in the Republican primary in general, and focused on one candidate in particular: former reality TV star and current Republican nominee Donald Trump. As the Bridge Initiative study noted, Trump’s candidacy has combined a high level of Islamophobic rhetoric with a degree of free media coverage almost unprecedented in modern American politics, enabling his message to reach millions of people both in the U.S. and overseas. In a number of anti-Muslim incidents, the attackers have identified themselves as Trump supporters.posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
A series of surveys of American attitudes toward Muslims and Islam, authored by University of Maryland scholar Shibley Telhami and discussed at a Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland also held on October 20, seems to bolster the idea of a connection between the Trump campaign, and Republican Party politics in general, and the increase in Islamophobia in the U.S. The three surveys, taken in November 2015, May 2016, and June 2016 (shortly after the Orlando nightclub shooting) actually showed an overall increase in favorable American attitudes toward Muslims (from 53% to 58% to 62%) and favorable attitudes toward Islam (from 37% to 42% to 44%), even after the Orlando attack. But that shift was entirely driven by self-identified Democratic and independent voters. Self-identified Republicans, and particularly Trump supporters, saw their mostly negative views of Muslims and Islam remain constant or even grow slightly more negative.
In Telhami’s view, “American political polarization” explains much of the overall softening of American attitudes toward Muslims and Islam. Trump’s campaign became so closely identified with an anti-Muslim and anti-Islam worldview that anyone opposing Trump would have been inclined to adopt the opposite view. If Trump’s Islamophobia has been potent enough to create such a considerable backlash, it also likely inspired his supporters to strengthen their own anti-Islam attitudes.
Hillary will not speak against the pipeline because if she does, she's saying that she's going to side with environmentalists - Native and non-Native - over corporate interests. It would be a huge signal that would put many center Democrats off. She's at least somewhat amenable to fracking, too, and I'm sure that while she herself may not be economically implicated in the pipeline, many of her donors and class or political allies are. What's more, the debt that is owed to Native people in this country is so great that it would be very difficult to admit that it even exists and hold many of the standard Democratic political positions.
It might be that if there were huge popular support of stopping DAPL, the votes and clout she'd gain would be sufficient to outweigh what she'd lose, but Native votes and some other votes aren't enough.
This isn't a thing that is unique to Hillary; it's what happens when we're governed by the very wealthy, among them many families who have been very wealthy for generations.
And it's a problem because we can, as a country, do a great harm to a minority. Native people are hugely wronged by this project, but if you say that you're deferring to the will of the majority, unfair treatment is allowed to slide by, and that's how it's always been in the US regardless of what party is in the White House.
It doesn't even mean that Hillary would be hostile to financial or social-services proposals that would benefit Native communities. It just means that where the core, the most important matter of justice is - where actual power and ownership rest - she will preserve the interests of wealthy and de facto white people like herself.
I mean, I'm personally in the tank for Hillary because I think that's the best option available, but I would not hold it against someone who just couldn't vote for Hillary because they were personally (or their close friends/family/etc were personally) being ground down by this thing. It would feel too sickening to be born if you had to deal with being crushed by the system in that immediate way and also vote for the system.
posted by Frowner at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [43 favorites]
It might be that if there were huge popular support of stopping DAPL, the votes and clout she'd gain would be sufficient to outweigh what she'd lose, but Native votes and some other votes aren't enough.
This isn't a thing that is unique to Hillary; it's what happens when we're governed by the very wealthy, among them many families who have been very wealthy for generations.
And it's a problem because we can, as a country, do a great harm to a minority. Native people are hugely wronged by this project, but if you say that you're deferring to the will of the majority, unfair treatment is allowed to slide by, and that's how it's always been in the US regardless of what party is in the White House.
It doesn't even mean that Hillary would be hostile to financial or social-services proposals that would benefit Native communities. It just means that where the core, the most important matter of justice is - where actual power and ownership rest - she will preserve the interests of wealthy and de facto white people like herself.
I mean, I'm personally in the tank for Hillary because I think that's the best option available, but I would not hold it against someone who just couldn't vote for Hillary because they were personally (or their close friends/family/etc were personally) being ground down by this thing. It would feel too sickening to be born if you had to deal with being crushed by the system in that immediate way and also vote for the system.
posted by Frowner at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [43 favorites]
From that Atlantic article:
Muslim Americans tend to be pretty concerned with foreign policy issues, so many have very real reservations with Hillary. I'm sympathetic to Qanta Ahmed feeling like she has no good options on the issues that matter to her. But I tend to think that abstaining from voting sends an absolutely pointless and ignorable message, since it's basically no different than the status quo of low turnout/registration from Muslim Americans. Put your vote in actual play and then you might have some leverage.
posted by yasaman at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Prior to the 2000 election, it was difficult to speak about a Muslim vote. It was a huge, multiethnic category, running from West Africans to Arabs, Persians to Pakistanis, and Indonesians to African American converts. While black American Muslims had a long tradition of political engagement, that wasn’t as true of other Muslims. A large proportion of immigrants, many of whom either came from places where there wasn’t a robust tradition of voting, or who took a quietist attitude toward politics.Hmm, I think it's still difficult to speak about a Muslim vote. Trump feeling like such a direct, offensive threat to Muslim Americans' safety and citizenship will make the Muslim vote seem like a bloc this election, but I'm not sure it will remain anything close to a bloc vote after it, thanks to the broad range of ethnicities and concerns the Muslim American vote covers.
Muslim Americans tend to be pretty concerned with foreign policy issues, so many have very real reservations with Hillary. I'm sympathetic to Qanta Ahmed feeling like she has no good options on the issues that matter to her. But I tend to think that abstaining from voting sends an absolutely pointless and ignorable message, since it's basically no different than the status quo of low turnout/registration from Muslim Americans. Put your vote in actual play and then you might have some leverage.
posted by yasaman at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
If she sticks to the kind of standard she is laying out on this piece, her ballot may never have a place to land. I worry that she isn't thinking about how the Muslim vote only gains political influence if it is exercised. I know she has a right to her view and that abstaining is a legitimate choice.
Just because someone doesn't vote for the president, doesn't mean they're not voting. Local elections can be a lot more impactful for minority communities.
That would be my advice to Qanta Ahmed. Not "vote for us so we finally care about you."
posted by mayonnaises at 12:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just because someone doesn't vote for the president, doesn't mean they're not voting. Local elections can be a lot more impactful for minority communities.
That would be my advice to Qanta Ahmed. Not "vote for us so we finally care about you."
posted by mayonnaises at 12:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died....
Hope where ever he is now, it looks a little something like this
posted by Existential Dread at 12:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hope where ever he is now, it looks a little something like this
posted by Existential Dread at 12:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
And if your keyboard layout makes it hard to type an Umlaut, you can just spell it 'Luegenpresse'. That is fine too.
Just don't spell it 'Lugenpresse'. That's like writing 'booger' when you mean to write 'bugger'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just don't spell it 'Lugenpresse'. That's like writing 'booger' when you mean to write 'bugger'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died
If only he'd had a pair of tiny shoes...
posted by dersins at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
If only he'd had a pair of tiny shoes...
posted by dersins at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Speaking of WTF: This story about Julian Assange being libeled by a fake dating website that may or may not be run by a secret military organization is just too much even for me.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died
2016, you fickle bastard.
posted by Mooski at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
2016, you fickle bastard.
posted by Mooski at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
hearing on Twitter that Jack Chick died....
"Welcome to Hell, Jack. Here's the character sheet for the gay Catholic elf warlock you'll be playing in Dungeons & Dragons for the rest of eternity."
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [71 favorites]
"Welcome to Hell, Jack. Here's the character sheet for the gay Catholic elf warlock you'll be playing in Dungeons & Dragons for the rest of eternity."
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [71 favorites]
Have any fellow Californians received their vote-by-mail ballots yet?
Sent out Oct. 10, received Oct. 13, sent back Oct. 17, confirmed received (and unchallenged) by county registrar. Currently sciencing the shit out of getting off this planet (but voted to provide the most benefit for those of you left behind).
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sent out Oct. 10, received Oct. 13, sent back Oct. 17, confirmed received (and unchallenged) by county registrar. Currently sciencing the shit out of getting off this planet (but voted to provide the most benefit for those of you left behind).
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, it's hard to vote for "status quo plus incremental improvements" when the status quo for your people is genocide, and none of the incremental improvements are targeted to help you at all.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
The fact that she hasn't issued a statement on every moral outrage and grievance isn't a moral failing. It is just time and message management in the final days of the election. She has limited time and needs to have a focused message.
posted by humanfont at 12:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 12:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
TTTCS
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:40 PM on October 24 [2 favorites +] [!]
I do not know what this means. Clearly 2 people do? Can someone fill the rest of us in?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:40 PM on October 24 [2 favorites +] [!]
I do not know what this means. Clearly 2 people do? Can someone fill the rest of us in?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
it's MetaFilter's fastest-growing election meme, That Thing From That Episode Of The West Wing, You Know The One
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
She can speak about the police violence at the protests and the arrest of journalists covering the protest without diving into her underlying positions on the pipeline itself. I get the bind she's in regarding taking a position on the pipeline's construction -- she can come up with a noncommittal response to that ("we need to make sure these decisions are made with all of the relevant stakeholders so that there aren't unintended consequences, blah blah, hope the courts and DOJ are able to perform their functions to make sure that everything is resolved peacefully in accordance with the law/treaties/etc"). But whether the police (and private security) can violently attack protesters and whether the state should be arresting journalists - those should not be hard questions to opine on, and they tie directly into the anti-Trumpism messaging.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:54 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:54 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
TTTCS
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:40 PM on October 24 [2 favorites +] [!]
I do not know what this means. Clearly 2 people do? Can someone fill the rest of us in?
West Wing reference
posted by zakur at 12:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:40 PM on October 24 [2 favorites +] [!]
I do not know what this means. Clearly 2 people do? Can someone fill the rest of us in?
West Wing reference
posted by zakur at 12:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Signs don't point to Hillary having a hidden anti-DAPL position though, cjelli. Her position all along has been that we need to continue using fossil fuels and strive for energy independence—even to the extent of supporting the environmentally and socially destructive practice of fracking—while we effect a gradual transition to renewable energy sources. Being against the DAPL would clash with that stance in a major way, and I think Frowner is right to point out that Native issues and environmental issues just don't matter to most voters, whereas things like energy independence and gas prices do. Ultimately, the reason why politicians don't take a stronger stance against this stuff is that most voters don't give a shit about stopping it and lobbyists absolutely give a shit about making sure that it happens.
Hillary has some good policy plans, but ultimately none of them are designed to upset the current balance of power on her side of the aisle. She's like an energy company that is willing to pour money into mitigation and conservation research so that they can benefit from some of that positive PR—right up until the point where it looks like it might affect their production numbers, at which point you realize what really matters to them.
Hillary is all about the bottom line. She'll help out some of the little people along the way if it's cheap and easy to do so, but she ultimately supports and is an integral part of the existing power structure. Let's not kid ourselves. I admire her skill, toughness, intelligence, professionalism, and tenacity. I am excited to have a female president for the first time in US history. I am excited about some of her policies and think it's important to support her because of the disaster that her opponent would be. And I feel like that about the Democratic party in general, for that matter. But I know that a vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo, and the status quo is fucked.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Hillary has some good policy plans, but ultimately none of them are designed to upset the current balance of power on her side of the aisle. She's like an energy company that is willing to pour money into mitigation and conservation research so that they can benefit from some of that positive PR—right up until the point where it looks like it might affect their production numbers, at which point you realize what really matters to them.
Hillary is all about the bottom line. She'll help out some of the little people along the way if it's cheap and easy to do so, but she ultimately supports and is an integral part of the existing power structure. Let's not kid ourselves. I admire her skill, toughness, intelligence, professionalism, and tenacity. I am excited to have a female president for the first time in US history. I am excited about some of her policies and think it's important to support her because of the disaster that her opponent would be. And I feel like that about the Democratic party in general, for that matter. But I know that a vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo, and the status quo is fucked.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Oh hey there's a video about Trump supporter shenanigans.
Exclusive investigation: Donald Trump faces foreign donor fundraising scandal
Donald Trump’s presidential campaign is facing a fundraising scandal after a Telegraph investigation exposed how key supporters were prepared to accept illicit donations from foreign backers.
Senior figures involved with the Great America PAC, one of the leading "independent" groups organising television advertisements and grassroots support for the Republican nominee, sought to channel $2 million from a Chinese donor into the campaign to elect the billionaire despite laws prohibiting donations from foreigners.
In return, undercover reporters purporting to represent the fictitious donor were assured that he would obtain “influence” if Mr Trump made it to the White House.
Looks like they tried Clinton as well. No bite.
Undercover reporters posing as consultants acting for a Chinese benefactor approached specific pro-Trump and pro-Clinton fundraisers and groups after receiving information that individuals were involved in hiding foreign donations.
Sources also said PACs, “independent” organisations that can raise unlimited sums of money to lobby for or against particular candidates, were being used to circumvent rules.
The pro-Clinton organisations did not respond to initial approaches. But earlier this month an undercover reporter spoke by telephone to Eric Beach, co-chairman of the pro-Trump Great America PAC, which has the backing of Rudy Giuliani, one of Mr Trump’s most senior advisers, as well as the billionaire's son Eric.
posted by Jalliah at 12:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [26 favorites]
Exclusive investigation: Donald Trump faces foreign donor fundraising scandal
Donald Trump’s presidential campaign is facing a fundraising scandal after a Telegraph investigation exposed how key supporters were prepared to accept illicit donations from foreign backers.
Senior figures involved with the Great America PAC, one of the leading "independent" groups organising television advertisements and grassroots support for the Republican nominee, sought to channel $2 million from a Chinese donor into the campaign to elect the billionaire despite laws prohibiting donations from foreigners.
In return, undercover reporters purporting to represent the fictitious donor were assured that he would obtain “influence” if Mr Trump made it to the White House.
Looks like they tried Clinton as well. No bite.
Undercover reporters posing as consultants acting for a Chinese benefactor approached specific pro-Trump and pro-Clinton fundraisers and groups after receiving information that individuals were involved in hiding foreign donations.
Sources also said PACs, “independent” organisations that can raise unlimited sums of money to lobby for or against particular candidates, were being used to circumvent rules.
The pro-Clinton organisations did not respond to initial approaches. But earlier this month an undercover reporter spoke by telephone to Eric Beach, co-chairman of the pro-Trump Great America PAC, which has the backing of Rudy Giuliani, one of Mr Trump’s most senior advisers, as well as the billionaire's son Eric.
posted by Jalliah at 12:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [26 favorites]
That would be my advice to Qanta Ahmed. Not "vote for us so we finally care about you."
Hmm. While I agree with the bit about the possibility that she is voting downballot, it sounds like you think I'm commenting from the perspective of people holding power, rather than the position I'm actually in: Muslim-American and wanting that vote to gain influence locally as well as nationally.
posted by bardophile at 12:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hmm. While I agree with the bit about the possibility that she is voting downballot, it sounds like you think I'm commenting from the perspective of people holding power, rather than the position I'm actually in: Muslim-American and wanting that vote to gain influence locally as well as nationally.
posted by bardophile at 12:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK, I jumped ahead to post that question after control-f'ing and I swear that there were no answers when I searched... because I forgot to load new comments before searching, argh! Thanks and sorry.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:58 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:58 PM on October 24, 2016
The fact that she hasn't issued a statement on every moral outrage and grievance isn't a moral failing. It is just time and message management in the final days of the election. She has limited time and needs to have a focused message.
It's the biggest Native American protest in decades, not some passing squabble.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [41 favorites]
It's the biggest Native American protest in decades, not some passing squabble.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [41 favorites]
Politico headline today: Trump starts grappling with reality [real]
posted by Gelatin at 1:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 1:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ultimately, the reason why politicians don't take a stronger stance against this stuff is that most voters don't give a shit about stopping it and lobbyists absolutely give a shit about making sure that it happens.New York State was able to give frackers the middle finger despite political support for it. It took a seven year environmental study, hundreds of thousands of comments on the RFC, and the governor listening to the will of the people to get it done. But it got done. Engagement is key.
posted by xyzzy at 1:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
National Treasure Randy Rainbow has made his best song yet (SLYT, a lovely balm for the ravaged blue soul, and a good chuckle, too!).
posted by stolyarova at 1:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 1:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Reality?
posted by zakur at 1:05 PM on October 24, 2016
“But, you know, everybody had me winning the third debate and the second debate handily, easily."Umm, not so much.
posted by zakur at 1:05 PM on October 24, 2016
There are occasional victories like that xyzzy, but that is fundamentally not the norm, even when there is a lot of engagement. And it's hard to raise that kind of sustained, multi-year public engagement when people are struggling full time just to get by, whereas those in power have well-funded, full-time lobbyists on staff with direct access to the ears of the people who make these decisions. You can point to occasional victories, but they are very much the exception to business as usual.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Exclusive investigation: Donald Trump faces foreign donor fundraising scandal
mfw
James O'Keefe WISHES he could do this kind of muckraking.
posted by Talez at 1:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
mfw
James O'Keefe WISHES he could do this kind of muckraking.
posted by Talez at 1:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
You think that's bad, DynamiteToast? Check out the webpage of the Democratic candidate for Congress Richard Reichard.
posted by Soliloquy at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Soliloquy at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Today Trump supporters on FB, people I grew up with, informed me that it's rude to call out people who use anti-Semitic slurs. Because their Jewish friends make Jewish jokes, and because Hillary is the worst anti-Semite in history. I'm all, I can't believe you're defending anti-Semitism. (Then as if to score debate points one of them added -- incorrectly -- that I had misspelled "anti-Semitic.") Deplorable is putting it nicely. That people feel emboldened to say these things with their real identities attached and in a public forum is shocking and scary.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
I would not hold it against someone who just couldn't vote for Hillary because they were personally (or their close friends/family/etc were personally) being ground down by this thing. It would feel too sickening to be born if you had to deal with being crushed by the system in that immediate way and also vote for the system.
In this case, "lesser of two evils" is definitely something that comes to mind. Vote for the woman who has championed and fought for the rights of women and children for her entire professional life, causes which overlap with concerns faced in Sovereign Nations, or the racist, sexist bigot who probably doesn't care about tribal and native issues if it doesn't relate to opening casinos.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
In this case, "lesser of two evils" is definitely something that comes to mind. Vote for the woman who has championed and fought for the rights of women and children for her entire professional life, causes which overlap with concerns faced in Sovereign Nations, or the racist, sexist bigot who probably doesn't care about tribal and native issues if it doesn't relate to opening casinos.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
You think that's bad, DynamiteToast? Check out the webpage of the Democratic candidate for Congress Richard Reichard.
No blinking objects? Then I'm gonna see that and raise you the Libertarian running in the first race I mentioned.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
No blinking objects? Then I'm gonna see that and raise you the Libertarian running in the first race I mentioned.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Literally no one cares who Qanta Ahmed votes for. The reality of voting is that any single vote is not worth caring about, even though everyone cares about votes in aggregate.
Whether or not Qanta Ahmed votes for Clinton, she's already exerted more political force, and exerted it to better ends, than nearly any of the voters here. How? By getting a quote placed in an article that people are reading. By so doing, she has through her actions placed an iota of leverage on the Democratic Party; post-article, it is now slightly more likely that the Clinton administration will hesitate to continue with some reprehensible foreign policy tactics, because they might be concerned about losing Muslim-American votes in areas where the Muslim-American vote is meaningful.
I mean, she hasn't saved the world or anything — this is a tiny fractional gain, vanishingly small, that only appears meaningful when compared to the even tinier impact of an individual vote — but nevertheless she's had more impact on the political scene as a whole than almost all of us will.
What's more, she might still be voting for Clinton. I think in her shoes I might aim to get as much "Muslim-Americans abstaining from voting for Clinton because foreign policy" press out there as possible, and then secretly vote for Clinton anyway.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:19 PM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Whether or not Qanta Ahmed votes for Clinton, she's already exerted more political force, and exerted it to better ends, than nearly any of the voters here. How? By getting a quote placed in an article that people are reading. By so doing, she has through her actions placed an iota of leverage on the Democratic Party; post-article, it is now slightly more likely that the Clinton administration will hesitate to continue with some reprehensible foreign policy tactics, because they might be concerned about losing Muslim-American votes in areas where the Muslim-American vote is meaningful.
I mean, she hasn't saved the world or anything — this is a tiny fractional gain, vanishingly small, that only appears meaningful when compared to the even tinier impact of an individual vote — but nevertheless she's had more impact on the political scene as a whole than almost all of us will.
What's more, she might still be voting for Clinton. I think in her shoes I might aim to get as much "Muslim-Americans abstaining from voting for Clinton because foreign policy" press out there as possible, and then secretly vote for Clinton anyway.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:19 PM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Today Trump supporters on FB, people I grew up with, informed me that it's rude to call out people who use anti-Semitic slurs. Because their Jewish friends make Jewish jokes, and because Hillary is the worst anti-Semite in history.
Ah, the ultimate defense for evil behavior by a mature, fully actualized human adult: "Everyone else is doing it so why can't I?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ah, the ultimate defense for evil behavior by a mature, fully actualized human adult: "Everyone else is doing it so why can't I?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
tl;dr: political activity, including but not limited to voting, is not an expression of identity. It's a move in a high-stakes game.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
James O'Keefe WISHES he could do this kind of muckraking.
It's a lot easier to rake muck when there's actually some shit to shovel. That's why he has to produce his own stories, by asking staffers hypothetical questions about illegal situations, then editing video to make a story.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's a lot easier to rake muck when there's actually some shit to shovel. That's why he has to produce his own stories, by asking staffers hypothetical questions about illegal situations, then editing video to make a story.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Considerable coverage of continuing events at DAPL protests on today's Democracy Now! (alt link, .torrent.)
posted by XMLicious at 1:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 1:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Miss Victory Defeats the Nazi Gorilla; Or, VOTE on Nov 8!
I believe we need a Populist Progressive to bring the country forward, both economically and socially (instead of being held in stasis by a Tepid Moderate or utterly destroyed by a Greedy Regressive), so I supported U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, and always will.posted by kirkaracha at 1:24 PM on October 24, 2016
That said, Hillary Clinton is overqualified for President and we are lucky to have her. She has my support now because her actual track record (and plenty of actual journalism) dispels all the false controversies designed to demonize and disqualify her.
Sanders: You’d Find Bad Stuff About Hillary Clinton In My Emails, Too:
“Trust me, if they went into our emails—I suppose which may happen, who knows—I’m sure there would be statements that would be less than flattering about, you know, the Clinton staff,” Sanders told the Washington Post on Monday. “That’s what happens in campaigns.”posted by palindromic at 1:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Despite stolen emails showing top Clinton staff calling Sanders a “doofus” and calling supporters of a $15 minimum wage—which Sanders has advocated for vocally—“the Red Army,” the Vermont senator has continued to campaign heavily for Clinton nationwide, calling Trump the most dangerous major-party candidate in modern American history and promising that his more liberal supporters will hold Clinton accountable.
His job, he told the Post in an article published separately, would be “to demand that the Democratic Party implement" its platform.
I know this is sadly sterotypical but I'm dreaming of a pink oval office.
Just saying.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Just saying.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Politico headline today: Trump starts grappling with reality [real]
Oh, you mean the online polls you cherry-picked because they were the only ones saying you weren't slaughtered by Hillary. Right, that "everybody."
posted by filthy light thief at 1:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
“I guess I’m somewhat behind in the polls but not by much,” Trump told Bo Thompson of WBT’s “Charlotte’s Morning News” on Monday. “I mean, in your state, I’m 1 point, 2 points and even in three polls. One point, 2 points and even.”[Emphasis mine]
While it’s unclear what polls Trump is referring to, he trails Hillary Clinton in North Carolina in six separate surveys by a margin of 1 to 4 percentage points. Clinton leads by an average of 2.5 percentage points in the RealClearPolitics’ average of state polls and by 6.1 percentage points in its average of national surveys.
He also rolled back — slightly — his refusal to say that he’ll accept the outcome of the election, saying “too much is being made” about his declaration on last week’s final debate stage.
“Yes, I think too much is being made,” he said during the radio interview. “But, you know, everybody had me winning the third debate and the second debate handily, easily. And when I made that statement, I made it knowingly because what’s happening is absolutely ridiculous.”
Oh, you mean the online polls you cherry-picked because they were the only ones saying you weren't slaughtered by Hillary. Right, that "everybody."
posted by filthy light thief at 1:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Undercover reporters posing as consultants acting for a Chinese benefactor approached specific pro-Trump and pro-Clinton fundraisers and groups after receiving information that individuals were involved in hiding foreign donations. [...]
The pro-Clinton organisations did not respond to initial approaches. But earlier this month an undercover reporter spoke by telephone to Eric Beach, co-chairman of the pro-Trump Great America PAC, which has the backing of Rudy Giuliani, one of Mr Trump’s most senior advisers, as well as the billionaire's son Eric.
BREAKING ASSOCIATED PRESS ANALYSIS: New Questions Raised As Contact Between Clinton Campaign And Suspect Chinese Donors Regarding Illegal Donations Revealed [fake, so far]
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 1:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
The pro-Clinton organisations did not respond to initial approaches. But earlier this month an undercover reporter spoke by telephone to Eric Beach, co-chairman of the pro-Trump Great America PAC, which has the backing of Rudy Giuliani, one of Mr Trump’s most senior advisers, as well as the billionaire's son Eric.
BREAKING ASSOCIATED PRESS ANALYSIS: New Questions Raised As Contact Between Clinton Campaign And Suspect Chinese Donors Regarding Illegal Donations Revealed [fake, so far]
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 1:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
You can point to occasional victories, but they are very much the exception to business as usual.I prefer to take a less cynical view and identify such victories as templates for success. Maybe my RFC comment meant nothing and I wasted my time writing letters, but I would rather be defeated after engaging in the political process than just rely on others to do all the hard work while I complain about the state of government.
posted by xyzzy at 1:30 PM on October 24, 2016
Senior figures involved with the Great America PAC
Ah, well that's curious: the Great America PAC -- a vehicle for longtime GOP campaign operative Ed Rollins -- was called a scam by Roger Stone (takes one to know one) back in May. Stone, of course, has his own PAC. Grifters all the way down.
posted by holgate at 1:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ah, well that's curious: the Great America PAC -- a vehicle for longtime GOP campaign operative Ed Rollins -- was called a scam by Roger Stone (takes one to know one) back in May. Stone, of course, has his own PAC. Grifters all the way down.
posted by holgate at 1:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mod note: To head off any potential further Jack Chick side-chatter, I'll note there's a post about his death that that stuff would go better in.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Scott Lemieux: Is Evan Bayh “Collapsing?”:
On the one hand, Bayh is the best viable Senate candidate from Indiana, and while he was a wet for a red-state senator he was OK — he did less damage to the ACA than Lieberman or Nelson, for example. It’s important that he win. On the other hand, Republican depictions of him as a money-drubbing hack Washington insider are…perfectly accurate. Not only is he a greasy lobbyist but he was really pompous about it. As is so often the case Bayh is the best that can be done in Indiana right now but it would be desirable for conditions to change such as that the best is better.posted by palindromic at 1:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
In other election related news, apparently Scott Adams has lost his mind.
posted by TedW at 1:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by TedW at 1:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Yes, Trump Really Is Saying ‘Big League,’ Not ‘Bigly,’ Linguists Say
Kudos linguists!
Now translate the other 99.99% of the word salad.
posted by srboisvert at 1:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Kudos linguists!
Now translate the other 99.99% of the word salad.
posted by srboisvert at 1:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
I am very disappointed that following the election meant I missed important news from back in June. For example, a new baby camel at the Lincoln Park Zoo was named Alexander Camelton and I missed that completely. Thanks, liberal news media.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [58 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [58 favorites]
Gosh yeah, when you thought you've really seen all the comedians to the point of, um, early vomiting, here comes Scott Adams.
posted by Namlit at 1:43 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Namlit at 1:43 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
538 Election Update: Trump May Depress Republican Turnout, Spelling Disaster For The GOP ( Oct 23, 2016 at 12:59 PM)
But the article goes on to point out why this new poll is bad news for down-ticket GOP candidates (reduced interest in voting from Republicans, especially "high-education, high-income voters, who typically also have a high propensity to vote," plus that "the voting is rigged" rhetoric could be a *gasp* dis-incentive vote for his already shrinking base).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
The problem for Trump is that taken as a whole, his polls aren’t very good — and, in fact, they may still be getting worse. An ABC News national poll released on Sunday morning — the first live-caller poll conducted fully after the final presidential debate — showed Clinton leading Trump 50 percent to 38 percent. Clinton’s 12-point lead in that poll is toward the high end of a broad range of results from recent national polls, with surveys showing everything from a 15-point Clinton lead to a 2-point Trump edge. But the ABC News poll is interesting given its recency and given why Clinton has pulled so far ahead in it — Republicans aren’t very happy with their candidate and may not turn out to vote:... where "tightening slightly" means with Hillary leading electoral votes at 325.7 to 211.5, with 48.9% of the popular vote over Donald's 43.7%; versus Polls-Only: 337.5 to 199.5, 49.4% to 43.2%.The previous ABC/Post poll found a sharp 12-point decline in enthusiasm for Trump among his supporters, almost exclusively among those who’d preferred a different GOP nominee. Intended participation now has followed: The share of registered Republicans who are likely to vote is down 7 points since mid-October.I’d urge a little bit of caution here, given that swings in enthusiasm can be transient and can sometimes exaggerate (PDF) the underlying change in voter sentiment. Our polls-only forecast has Clinton up by about 7 percentage points instead of by double digits — and our polls-plus forecast would still bet on the race tightening slightly.
But the article goes on to point out why this new poll is bad news for down-ticket GOP candidates (reduced interest in voting from Republicans, especially "high-education, high-income voters, who typically also have a high propensity to vote," plus that "the voting is rigged" rhetoric could be a *gasp* dis-incentive vote for his already shrinking base).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Could the Party not provide basic website templates and require candidates to be online or something? It's embarrassing when they don't have anything/have something crappy. I'd be happy with one static page with a list of positions, contact info, appearances. Could not be that hard to create.
posted by emjaybee at 1:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Nine Native American tribes seek to shorten 200 mile trip to early vote:
The requests come after a federal judge ordered Nevada to provide early polling locations for two tribes who filed suit, arguing that their members would have had to drive almost 100 miles in order to vote before Election Day.posted by palindromic at 1:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
The state had denied the two tribes’ requests, but on October 7, a federal judge ruled in their favor and ordered Nevada to provide the Pyramid Lake Paiute and Walker River Paiute tribes with early voting locations.
There was a discussion in previous threads about the mediocre Dem options for recruitment in Indiana, a continuation of the state-wide party weakness that had propelled Pence into the governor's mansion. Bayh is an awful candidate who exemplifies the DC revolving door and if he wins he will be a sanctimonious two-faced Sunday-show "moderate" gasbag for six years, so it would be nice to have a bit more of a buffer from other Senate races.
There's not much room for recruitment in 2018 given the lopsidedness of the Senate seats of for re-election -- it's going to be about defending incumbents -- but whoever takes over from Schumer at the DSCC needs to come up with decent candidates for Texas and Nevada and Arizona and handle retirements as best as possible.
posted by holgate at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's not much room for recruitment in 2018 given the lopsidedness of the Senate seats of for re-election -- it's going to be about defending incumbents -- but whoever takes over from Schumer at the DSCC needs to come up with decent candidates for Texas and Nevada and Arizona and handle retirements as best as possible.
posted by holgate at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm getting really excited about the recent judiciary action on voting rights.
posted by xyzzy at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
The expression on my face these days at all bad-for-the-GOP election news is this. I am making this face a lot.
I am most emphatically not happy because this whole shitshow is and will continue to be a disaster for this country even if Hillary rides over the fallen bodies of her enemies in a chariot made of rainbows pulled by a team of unicorns, and so many people have been harmed and will continue to be, but fucking good if even one of these chickens actually makes it home to roost. It couldn't happen to a nicer party, assholes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [29 favorites]
I am most emphatically not happy because this whole shitshow is and will continue to be a disaster for this country even if Hillary rides over the fallen bodies of her enemies in a chariot made of rainbows pulled by a team of unicorns, and so many people have been harmed and will continue to be, but fucking good if even one of these chickens actually makes it home to roost. It couldn't happen to a nicer party, assholes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [29 favorites]
Washoe County GOP chairman (NV swing county) tells @ChrisJansing Trump campaign won't return his calls [link to tweet w/ transcript of convo in an image -- he calls them every day to ask for yard signs and they never return his calls]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
> Are counties really providing daily updates to the candidates of names of those who have early voted?
The way it works here in Westchester County, NY is that when you come in to vote, election inspectors check your name against the list of registered voters, and then you are logged on a separate sheet. Party representatives typically come by in the early p.m. to get a copy of that separate sheet, so they can whip up the vote of party members who haven't shown up yet.
Technically, who voted (but not their vote) is public information, but to get it on election day you need to visit each district desk at each polling place, and for each district you need to have a letter (from the party, I think? I'll have to review this) authorizing your access. As you might imagine, GOTV in NYS rewards a big, organized ground force.
posted by Opposite George at 1:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
The way it works here in Westchester County, NY is that when you come in to vote, election inspectors check your name against the list of registered voters, and then you are logged on a separate sheet. Party representatives typically come by in the early p.m. to get a copy of that separate sheet, so they can whip up the vote of party members who haven't shown up yet.
Technically, who voted (but not their vote) is public information, but to get it on election day you need to visit each district desk at each polling place, and for each district you need to have a letter (from the party, I think? I'll have to review this) authorizing your access. As you might imagine, GOTV in NYS rewards a big, organized ground force.
posted by Opposite George at 1:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't know if you can honestly say that a group with no influence is "influential."
They appeared on the Simpsons.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:54 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
They appeared on the Simpsons.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:54 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
"[O]ne of the most influential LGBT Republican groups" is true. "Influential" is not.
posted by The Tensor at 1:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 1:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
To be fair, there aren't really any *other* LGBT Republican groups, so "most influential" is a highly relative statement.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 1:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wheee! I was reading up on Tom Hayden, and a former boss's name came up. (This was unexpected but not a surprise.) I was his assistant in the late 90s, and my parting words to him were, "Dude, sooner or later you need to learn how to type because I really think this email thing is going to take off." Anyway, long story short, I googled him to see what he's been up to and now I'm staring at two pages of leaked emails between him and John Podesta! (I'm not going to read them.)
posted by Room 641-A at 1:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 1:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
DynamiteToast:
I know we always talk about how Republicans kick the Democrats' asses at the local level, consistently fielding decent candidates and supporting them, but this is ridiculous. I'm researching my ballot here in Texas and these have been the last three Democrat candidates I've researched:
That reminds me. This guy is the Democrat running against Marsha Blackburn in Tennessee's 7th Congressional District. He's been the main D contender for the past few House elections, really.
Sure, the 7th leans pretty heavily Republican (and it was drawn that way), but it's like we're not even trying.
posted by pianoblack at 1:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know we always talk about how Republicans kick the Democrats' asses at the local level, consistently fielding decent candidates and supporting them, but this is ridiculous. I'm researching my ballot here in Texas and these have been the last three Democrat candidates I've researched:
That reminds me. This guy is the Democrat running against Marsha Blackburn in Tennessee's 7th Congressional District. He's been the main D contender for the past few House elections, really.
Sure, the 7th leans pretty heavily Republican (and it was drawn that way), but it's like we're not even trying.
posted by pianoblack at 1:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Names of people who have already voted are also taken off of mailing lists for campaign mailers. It's yet another good reason to vote early, if you are getting inundated with campaign lit in your mail box every day like I am. Good campaign staff will take the names of people who have already voted out of the address lists. (Shoddy campaign consultants who just want to make money will not do this and will waste your money mailing to people who have already voted.)
posted by gingerbeer at 2:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 2:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
In other election related news, apparently Scott Adams has lost his mind.
That's a proclamation from last Friday that Adams would join an effort to assassinate Trump if he gets elected and "does anything that looks even slightly Hitler-ish in office." This after announcing last June
On that occasion he also pledged thatSo I’ve decided to endorse Hillary Clinton for President, for my personal safety. Trump supporters don’t have any bad feelings about patriotic Americans such as myself, so I’ll be safe from that crowd. But Clinton supporters have convinced me – and here I am being 100% serious – that my safety is at risk if I am seen as supportive of Trump. So I’m taking the safe way out and endorsing Hillary Clinton for president.
...if an actual Hitler came to power in this country. I would join the resistance and try to take out the Hitler-like leader.But of course, guess who he was trying to imply was going to be Hitler-like at that point...
posted by XMLicious at 2:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
From that Nevada county GOP chairman tweet, I'm fascinated that he's calling the 660 area code for that. That's northwest Missouri. Doesn't include any cities, just a lot of farm country. Hmm.
posted by aabbbiee at 2:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by aabbbiee at 2:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Can we please, please, please, for the quadrillionth time, stop talking about Scott Adams?
posted by stolyarova at 2:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [117 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 2:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [117 favorites]
I can't even begin to imagine how the Secret Service manages to wade through all of the crazy rhetoric that is today's political environment to try and find real threats.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 2:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Deplorable Twitter is seemingly convinced that duck-gate is going to be the silver bullet that takes down the Clinton campaign. It's pretty hilarious. It's also pretty clear that this is literally the best that scumbag O'Keefe could manage. It turns out that taking down an organization that helped poor people will likely be the high water mark of his miserable little life.
posted by codacorolla at 2:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 2:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
FiveThirtyEight: The ~22 Times Trump Has Threatened To Sue Someone During This Campaign, which includes this fabulous sequence of threats against a prominent supporter:
12. On Feb. 3, 2016, Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz over voter fraud in the Iowa caucuses.posted by palindromic at 2:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
13. On Feb. 12, 2016, Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz for “not being a natural born citizen.”
14. On Feb. 17, 2016*, Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz for attack ads.
Yes, Trump Really Is Saying ‘Big League,’ Not ‘Bigly,’ Linguists Say
EXTREME CANADIAN CONTENT ALERT
LINK GOES TO TOM COCHRANE SONG ABOUT HOCKEY
BACKED BY PAUL SHAFFER
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
🎵 Hit a truck doing seventy 🎵
🎵 In the wrong lane 🎵
🎵 To the big league 🎵
posted by Sys Rq at 2:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
EXTREME CANADIAN CONTENT ALERT
LINK GOES TO TOM COCHRANE SONG ABOUT HOCKEY
BACKED BY PAUL SHAFFER
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
🎵 Hit a truck doing seventy 🎵
🎵 In the wrong lane 🎵
🎵 To the big league 🎵
posted by Sys Rq at 2:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I... I made it to the bottom of an election thread before a new one was started. I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the time I've wasted.
Honestly, I have *got* to stop reading this shit obsessively. I am getting zero work done.
posted by widdershins at 2:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [41 favorites]
Honestly, I have *got* to stop reading this shit obsessively. I am getting zero work done.
posted by widdershins at 2:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [41 favorites]
She can speak about the police violence at the protests and the arrest of journalists covering the protest without diving into her underlying positions on the pipeline itself.
I agree that the Dakota pipeline has been an ongoing problem, and what is happening is wrong. I'd like to see the pipeline stopped and the sheriff's office investigated by the DOJ for their violations of the civil rights of reporters like Amy Goodwin.
Where I disagree is on the strategy and priority relative to the other things she can talk about every day. If she jumps into this issue; then its a whole day (at least) of messaging, surrogates and explaining the position to the media. That is a day she doesn't have. She isn't avoiding the issue because it might alienate voters, or because she's trying to kiss up to big oil; she isn't talking about this issue because it doesn't have any material impact on the election.
posted by humanfont at 2:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I agree that the Dakota pipeline has been an ongoing problem, and what is happening is wrong. I'd like to see the pipeline stopped and the sheriff's office investigated by the DOJ for their violations of the civil rights of reporters like Amy Goodwin.
Where I disagree is on the strategy and priority relative to the other things she can talk about every day. If she jumps into this issue; then its a whole day (at least) of messaging, surrogates and explaining the position to the media. That is a day she doesn't have. She isn't avoiding the issue because it might alienate voters, or because she's trying to kiss up to big oil; she isn't talking about this issue because it doesn't have any material impact on the election.
posted by humanfont at 2:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
it's like we're not even tryingHonestly, it's hard to find serious opposition candidates in heavily gerrymandered districts. Only the gutsiest people want to devote that much energy in the face of near-certain defeat.
posted by Coventry at 2:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Mod note:
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 2:48 PM on October 24, 2016
Trump on porn actress who accused him of misconduct: 'Oh, I'm sure she's never been grabbed before'
"I don't know these women, it's not my thing to do what they say. You know I don't do that. I don't grab them, as they say, on the arm.""I grab them by the pussy." fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 2:48 PM on October 24, 2016
I was polled yesterday! A real one, too. Monmouth University. I've gotten push polls before, but this was the first real poll. She asked how likely I was to vote, and I said I already had, so pretty darn likely. Then, it was all who did you vote for for president, senator, and representative. Then, she asked if my view of Clinton was favorable or unfavorable (favorable, obvs). Then, she asked if my view of Trump was favorable or unfavorable and I just laughed. Literally. She chuckled a bit, too. Then we finished the poll. It was fun. My opinion matters!
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
I... I made it to the bottom of an election thread before a new one was started. I don't know whether to be proud or horrified at the time I've wasted.
Honestly, I have *got* to stop reading this shit obsessively. I am getting zero work done.
I've given up trying. I'm doing things that have to be done and everything else can just wait a couple more weeks.
I figure I've come this far, might as well see it through to the bitter end.
I'm looking forward to feeling like the world has opened up again.
I'll be free again!
posted by Jalliah at 2:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Honestly, I have *got* to stop reading this shit obsessively. I am getting zero work done.
I've given up trying. I'm doing things that have to be done and everything else can just wait a couple more weeks.
I figure I've come this far, might as well see it through to the bitter end.
I'm looking forward to feeling like the world has opened up again.
I'll be free again!
posted by Jalliah at 2:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm still really hoping that scripting wonks analyze and present post/comment frequency and bandwidth use over time, and maybe an oral history of the behind-the-scenes server-side stuff.
Eyeballing things, weekends are definitely lower traffic and comment posting falls off a cliff after about 1-2am PST and picks up around 5am PST (8 EST).
I'm still really surprised/appreciative at how well threads continue to update even during comment deluges during events (ie., debates).
posted by porpoise at 2:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Eyeballing things, weekends are definitely lower traffic and comment posting falls off a cliff after about 1-2am PST and picks up around 5am PST (8 EST).
I'm still really surprised/appreciative at how well threads continue to update even during comment deluges during events (ie., debates).
posted by porpoise at 2:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Where I disagree is on the strategy and priority relative to the other things she can talk about every day. If she jumps into this issue; then its a whole day (at least) of messaging, surrogates and explaining the position to the media. That is a day she doesn't have. She isn't avoiding the issue because it might alienate voters, or because she's trying to kiss up to big oil; she isn't talking about this issue because it doesn't have any material impact on the election.
Yes — the order of the day for Clinton on the pipeline is "talk less, smile more," because that is clearly the right tactical move for her. And the best tactical move for opponents of the pipeline is to make Clinton's silence as uncomfortable for her as humanly possible, right now, when it matters, so that she has less political space to express support for the pipeline while in office.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [27 favorites]
Yes — the order of the day for Clinton on the pipeline is "talk less, smile more," because that is clearly the right tactical move for her. And the best tactical move for opponents of the pipeline is to make Clinton's silence as uncomfortable for her as humanly possible, right now, when it matters, so that she has less political space to express support for the pipeline while in office.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [27 favorites]
Could the Party not provide basic website templates and require candidates to be online or something? It's embarrassing when they don't have anything/have something crappy. I'd be happy with one static page with a list of positions, contact info, appearances. Could not be that hard to create.
Yes please. Take the Pantsuit code and work up some nice looking templates that cover a range of complexity from single page sites that have a bare minimum of issues/contact/donate up to the full range of features showcased on Clinton's site. Once a candidate gets the Primary nomination for any position someone from the DNC calls them and talks to them about their web presence. If they have no site, just a Facebook page, or something that looks like a geocities page they get a pre-made template site that covers the bare minimum. Since these candidates have already demonstrated that they aren't tech savvy it would be great if the DNC could handle all the technical aspects of hosting and domain acquisition—for city council / dog catcher level positions they could probably even get away with having statewide sites at STATENAMEdems.com/county/city/position/candidate-name or something. Anyone who already has a decent site can either keep it or migrate to a Pantsuit based site. There has to be some kind of quality control check early on and if they fail that a system that allows for candidates who don't have the knowledge or motivation to fix the problem to get the bare minimum of a web presence established. It would be a big undertaking because there are literally thousands and thousands of candidates each year but hopefully with some smart planning and an easy to use CMS for the basic pages it could scale really well.
posted by metaphorever at 2:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
Yes please. Take the Pantsuit code and work up some nice looking templates that cover a range of complexity from single page sites that have a bare minimum of issues/contact/donate up to the full range of features showcased on Clinton's site. Once a candidate gets the Primary nomination for any position someone from the DNC calls them and talks to them about their web presence. If they have no site, just a Facebook page, or something that looks like a geocities page they get a pre-made template site that covers the bare minimum. Since these candidates have already demonstrated that they aren't tech savvy it would be great if the DNC could handle all the technical aspects of hosting and domain acquisition—for city council / dog catcher level positions they could probably even get away with having statewide sites at STATENAMEdems.com/county/city/position/candidate-name or something. Anyone who already has a decent site can either keep it or migrate to a Pantsuit based site. There has to be some kind of quality control check early on and if they fail that a system that allows for candidates who don't have the knowledge or motivation to fix the problem to get the bare minimum of a web presence established. It would be a big undertaking because there are literally thousands and thousands of candidates each year but hopefully with some smart planning and an easy to use CMS for the basic pages it could scale really well.
posted by metaphorever at 2:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
So Trump just tweeted the Donald Duck story, complete with a photo of the costumed duck holding a "Trump ducks releasing his tax returns" sign.
Dude, you aren't supposed to help spread the other side's attacks against you!
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [26 favorites]
Dude, you aren't supposed to help spread the other side's attacks against you!
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [26 favorites]
The Donald Duck thing is hilarious. I'm... supposed to be mad? That HRC wanted a guy in a Donald Duck costume with a TAX RETURNS sign to protest outside his rallies?
It's Mom Joke-level nerdy and I love it.
posted by stolyarova at 3:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
It's Mom Joke-level nerdy and I love it.
posted by stolyarova at 3:01 PM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
Nobody can do own-goals like Trump.
posted by emjaybee at 3:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 3:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
Conway suggests media should pay less attention to Trump's tweets
In a combative exchange Monday afternoon, MSNBC’s Steve Kornacki repeatedly pressed Conway to explain what Trump meant when he asserted that a “secret tape” had come out showing that Hillary Clinton “wants to take in as many Syrians as possible.”posted by kirkaracha at 3:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
...
When Kornacki brought up the statement on air that afternoon, Conway dismissed it, interjecting, “Twitter.”
Kornacki pushed back, “Well, he said, this is the best way of reaching voters, so I’m going to quote him on it.”
“He gave three speeches today, Steve!” Conway protested.
Project Veritas has their third vote rigging video up. They have a Democratic operative on video claiming that the Clinton campaign hired people to dress up as Donald Duck and protest Trump rallies this summer. reddit's /r/the_donald hasn't been this disappointed since Assange held his book release press conference.
posted by humanfont at 3:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 3:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tim Kaine pulls a Clark Griswold during a speech, further cementing his status as "America's Dorky Dad".
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [33 favorites]
It's Mom Joke-level nerdy and I love it.
Exactly! Is it supposed to outrage anybody? Seriously? Hillary supporters are going to either roll their eyes fondly or chuckle and those who are ambivalent will mock it gently. Meanwhile literally everyone will get laughs out of Trump supporters making like this is an actual big deal. Honestly, ginning up upset over the deplorables thing was far more understandable and had some actual legs.
posted by yasaman at 3:06 PM on October 24, 2016
Exactly! Is it supposed to outrage anybody? Seriously? Hillary supporters are going to either roll their eyes fondly or chuckle and those who are ambivalent will mock it gently. Meanwhile literally everyone will get laughs out of Trump supporters making like this is an actual big deal. Honestly, ginning up upset over the deplorables thing was far more understandable and had some actual legs.
posted by yasaman at 3:06 PM on October 24, 2016
CNN Anger unleashed: On the trail in Trump's America
Anti-Trump protesters started hunting for people in the signature "Make America Great Again" hats and t-shirts.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
A flash caught my eye. It was a teenager in Trump gear, sprinting with a mob in pursuit. The kid didn't stop running until he was safely ensconced behind a wall of police officers wearing riot gear.
I interviewed him and his father afterward. They held up a pile of Trump campaign signs they hoped to bring home from the rally that night; each one had been ripped out of their hands, shredded by protesters who reviled Trump.
Over the course of a year and a half, I've seen Trump supporters who have spit in protesters' faces. I've seen them hurl racial slurs with abandon.
I've also watched protesters cold-cock Trump supporters -- and vice versa -- in fits of rage. And I've watched Trump opponents harass a woman and pelt her with eggs.
Time and time again, I have seen Americans from both sides of the aisle fail to treat one another with respect and dignity. I've watched them fail to treat one another as human beings.
I'm so annoyed at the IBD/LAtimes/rasmussen tracking crap. Every day they come out showing Trump either ahead or tied. Every day. Nobody believes it. But if Trump loses (as we expect he will) his supporters will use these polls as proof Clinton rigged the election.
So, yes, LA Times for example has been transparent about their methodology. But they're still going to do real damage when, as we expect, their poll is shown to be very inaccurate.
posted by Justinian at 3:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, yes, LA Times for example has been transparent about their methodology. But they're still going to do real damage when, as we expect, their poll is shown to be very inaccurate.
posted by Justinian at 3:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
The best thing about a duck costume is saying quack at the end of every Trump sentance like grammatical structure.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump surrogate on MSNBC re voter fraud: I did research over the weekend and found thousands of cases, and I'm not even a very good researcher!
posted by Room 641-A at 3:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 3:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
NYTimes Fearing Trump, Bar Association Stifles Report Calling Him a ‘Libel Bully’
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [73 favorites]
WASHINGTON — Alarmed by Donald J. Trump’s record of filing lawsuits to punish and silence his critics, a committee of media lawyers at the American Bar Association commissioned a report on Mr. Trump’s litigation history. The report concluded that Mr. Trump was a “libel bully” who had filed many meritless suits attacking his opponents and had never won in court.Spineless cowards.
But the bar association refused to publish the report, citing “the risk of the A.B.A. being sued by Mr. Trump.”
David J. Bodney, a former chairman of the media-law committee, said he was baffled by the bar association’s interference in the committee’s journal.
“It is more than a little ironic,” he said, “that a publication dedicated to the exploration of First Amendment issues is subjected to censorship when it seeks to publish an article about threats to free speech.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [73 favorites]
The Donald Duck thing is hilarious. I'm... supposed to be mad? That HRC wanted a guy in a Donald Duck costume with a TAX RETURNS sign to protest outside his rallies?
It's Mom Joke-level nerdy and I love it.
Haven't watched the video. If Clinton did really approve it or say she wanted it then it could be squidgy with the rules governing campaign and PAC relationships.
But even if it is true and squidgy having the 'scandal' be abut Donald Duck mascots is just funny and it's not going to be taken seriously because holy hell "Clinton colluded about Donald Duck costumes - disqualified!, vote her out!' just sounds stupid.
This is what you have? Duck costumes?
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 3:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
It's Mom Joke-level nerdy and I love it.
Haven't watched the video. If Clinton did really approve it or say she wanted it then it could be squidgy with the rules governing campaign and PAC relationships.
But even if it is true and squidgy having the 'scandal' be abut Donald Duck mascots is just funny and it's not going to be taken seriously because holy hell "Clinton colluded about Donald Duck costumes - disqualified!, vote her out!' just sounds stupid.
This is what you have? Duck costumes?
YOU ARE SO BAD AT THIS
posted by Jalliah at 3:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
BBC News: Ugly US election race a poor ad for democracy in China
And that the populace might be accepting, as so many people have been avid about adopting fascism in exchange for imagined safety and stability.
posted by XMLicious at 3:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fang Xinghai, another senior Party member and vice chair of the China Securities Regulatory Commission, said the strength of China's consultative system is the intense deliberation which takes place behind closed doors inside the Party itself.I'd worry about things going in the reverse direction too; years now after the Snowden revelations, I'm amazed by how many people I've encountered who have said that they aren't concerned at all about centralized surveillance. As Chinese society converges in some ways with the West following increased prosperity, but the government's methods of control become more polished and sophisticated in conjunction with dealing with those greater liberties, I worry that our own 1% might decide it's worth copying some of their methods.
"This has allowed China forty years of uninterrupted growth within a stable system. Quiet deliberation is a more effective form of policy than a public shouting match, because policy making is complicated."
These are people with enormous exposure to western political culture who believe China's one party system can compete on the delivery of public goods.
In an echo of the mandarin class who ruled China for centuries through the imperial civil service, they defend the legitimacy of a policy making elite.
And that the populace might be accepting, as so many people have been avid about adopting fascism in exchange for imagined safety and stability.
posted by XMLicious at 3:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wired: Trump’s Campaign Is Launching a Nightly 'News' Show on Facebook
Tonight, the Trump campaign is kicking off a show that will air on the candidate’s Facebook page every night at 6:30 pm ET via Facebook Live from the campaign war room at Trump Tower. The show will be hosted by Boris Epshteyn, a senior adviser to the campaign, Tomi Lahren, a conservative commentator for Glen Beck’s TheBlaze, and Cliff Sims, another Trump adviser. In tonight’s inaugural episode they will interview Trump campaign manager KellyAnne Conway and adviser Jason Miller.
The series, which will stream Trump’s rallies directly each night and feature pre-and post-event commentary, comes on the heels of the campaign’s debate night Facebook Live last week, which brought in more than 9 million views.
posted by airish at 3:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Tonight, the Trump campaign is kicking off a show that will air on the candidate’s Facebook page every night at 6:30 pm ET via Facebook Live from the campaign war room at Trump Tower. The show will be hosted by Boris Epshteyn, a senior adviser to the campaign, Tomi Lahren, a conservative commentator for Glen Beck’s TheBlaze, and Cliff Sims, another Trump adviser. In tonight’s inaugural episode they will interview Trump campaign manager KellyAnne Conway and adviser Jason Miller.
The series, which will stream Trump’s rallies directly each night and feature pre-and post-event commentary, comes on the heels of the campaign’s debate night Facebook Live last week, which brought in more than 9 million views.
posted by airish at 3:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Kornacki pushed back, “Well, he said, this is the best way of reaching voters, so I’m going to quote him on it.”
If memory serves, Kornacki was a NJ-based reporter who MSNBC brought in for deep dives into the unfolding Bridgewater scandal. Good pick-up.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:19 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
If memory serves, Kornacki was a NJ-based reporter who MSNBC brought in for deep dives into the unfolding Bridgewater scandal. Good pick-up.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:19 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mod note:
Gay Republican group praises Trump even after voting not to endorse him
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Some individual members of the log cabin republicans still have a hard on for Trump.
Gay Republican group praises Trump even after voting not to endorse him
“Mr. Trump is perhaps the most pro-LGBT presidential nominee in the history of the Republican Party,” the group claimed in a release Saturday. “His unprecedented overtures to the ‘LGBTQ community’ — a first for any major-party candidate in our nation’s history — are worthy of praise, and should serve as a clarion call to the GOP that the days of needing to toe an anti-LGBT line are now a thing of the past.” Yes, the statement put “LGBTQ community” in quotes."He did such a great job almost saying 'LGBTQ' correctly during his RNC acceptance speech. Pretty good for his first time saying it!" fake
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
I stood in line for two hours to vote in Texas today, the first day of early voting. I grabbed two stickers on my way out, so I can wear one today, and another on November 8.
posted by pwinn at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by pwinn at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
> weekends are definitely lower traffic
It just so happens I was just finishing messing with exactly that.
Daily post count from the beginning of January 2015 to Oct 14th this year on threads with the "election2016" tag:
http://i.imgur.com/sLT1vn6.png
The jaggedness is due to weekends.
posted by vbfg at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
It just so happens I was just finishing messing with exactly that.
Daily post count from the beginning of January 2015 to Oct 14th this year on threads with the "election2016" tag:
http://i.imgur.com/sLT1vn6.png
The jaggedness is due to weekends.
posted by vbfg at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
NYTimes Fearing Trump, Bar Association Stifles Report Calling Him a ‘Libel Bully’
Here's a direct link to the report.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's a direct link to the report.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
The jaggedness is due to weekends.
it's true on so many levels
posted by entropicamericana at 3:22 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
it's true on so many levels
posted by entropicamericana at 3:22 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
reddit's /r/the_donald hasn't been this disappointed since Assange held his book release press conference.
Every couple of days I pop on over there to check out what they're blabbering about. I don't know why I bother trying, it's so hard to read. It's all 'OMG GUYS I HAVE FOUND THE HILLARY KILLAR PIECE OF EMAIL--YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT NOW'.. "DON'T TALK ABOUT DUCKS. PUSH THE FEC VIOLATION. I REPEAT NO DUCKS!!!!!"
They just scream at each other and everything is THE MOST URGENT PIECE OF INFORMATION IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD
posted by Jalliah at 3:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Every couple of days I pop on over there to check out what they're blabbering about. I don't know why I bother trying, it's so hard to read. It's all 'OMG GUYS I HAVE FOUND THE HILLARY KILLAR PIECE OF EMAIL--YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT NOW'.. "DON'T TALK ABOUT DUCKS. PUSH THE FEC VIOLATION. I REPEAT NO DUCKS!!!!!"
They just scream at each other and everything is THE MOST URGENT PIECE OF INFORMATION IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD
posted by Jalliah at 3:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Metafilter: They just scream at each other and everything is THE MOST URGENT PIECE OF INFORMATION IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD
posted by zachlipton at 3:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [57 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [57 favorites]
Jalliah: DON'T TALK ABOUT DUCKS
Are ducks codeword for something... or actual ducks? Because ducks are pretty cute.
edit: oh, the donald duck costume thing. sorry. i'm so tired of this election.
posted by bluecore at 3:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Are ducks codeword for something... or actual ducks? Because ducks are pretty cute.
edit: oh, the donald duck costume thing. sorry. i'm so tired of this election.
posted by bluecore at 3:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
The series, which will stream Trump’s rallies directly each night and feature pre-and post-event commentary, comes on the heels of the campaign’s debate night Facebook Live last week, which brought in more than 9 million views.
So it will be like FOX but 100% pro-trump. Hows that going to work? "Boy how great was Trump today! He really did an outstanding job of talking about Crooked Hillary and the Corrupt Media."
I would be interested in watching once just to see what they talk about.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on October 24, 2016
So it will be like FOX but 100% pro-trump. Hows that going to work? "Boy how great was Trump today! He really did an outstanding job of talking about Crooked Hillary and the Corrupt Media."
I would be interested in watching once just to see what they talk about.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on October 24, 2016
Oh. I guess it starts in 2 minutes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on October 24, 2016
Just don't spell it 'Lugenpresse'
Böhmermann's got your (ge)back: Laugenpresse!
posted by progosk at 3:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Böhmermann's got your (ge)back: Laugenpresse!
posted by progosk at 3:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
@aedwardslevy: "Here is the polling average for Brexit, vs. the past three months of election polls." I believe the lighter shades around the lines are the margins of error.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are ducks codeword for something... or actual ducks? Because ducks are pretty cute.
Costume ducks!
It's reference the latest O'Keefe video about the Clinton campaign supposedly in cahoots with a PAC to hire people in Donald Duck costumes to follow Trump around.
posted by Jalliah at 3:30 PM on October 24, 2016
Costume ducks!
It's reference the latest O'Keefe video about the Clinton campaign supposedly in cahoots with a PAC to hire people in Donald Duck costumes to follow Trump around.
posted by Jalliah at 3:30 PM on October 24, 2016
Is anyone here involved with the Orlando campaign? I'm wondering about putting up campaign volunteers for a few nights but haven't heard back via the website.
posted by bayleaf at 3:31 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by bayleaf at 3:31 PM on October 24, 2016
I just hit up the 10 years ago link on the front page and so many things that have been crappy for this election are all there: right wing media accusing culture elites of lying, Scott Adams, voting bullshit. It's kinda depressing.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:34 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 3:34 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Donald Duck with tax returns sign has been around for a while hasn't it? I remember seeing one standing next to some politician (I'm gonna guess a Democrat congressman, he looked vaguely familiar) outside the National Republican Club on Capitol Hill with like a camera and reporters and the politician was doing an interview with the duck behind him holding up the sign. That was probably mid to late summer. The duck definitely had a familiar looking blond wig on his head too.
If I knew then that MeFi would be all about The Duck I would've taken a photo instead of rushing to work.
posted by numaner at 3:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
If I knew then that MeFi would be all about The Duck I would've taken a photo instead of rushing to work.
posted by numaner at 3:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
With the launch of his channel and his threat to not concede the election, Trump's never going to stop campaigning, is he?
He is Sisyphus and we are the boulder.
posted by vverse23 at 3:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
He is Sisyphus and we are the boulder.
posted by vverse23 at 3:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
The series, which will stream Trump’s rallies directly each night and feature pre-and post-event commentary, comes on the heels of the campaign’s debate night Facebook Live last week, which brought in more than 9 million views.
Clicks in. Hears Boris Epshteyn say "that's what the mob does, pays off investigators." Dies a little inside.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on October 24, 2016
Clicks in. Hears Boris Epshteyn say "that's what the mob does, pays off investigators." Dies a little inside.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on October 24, 2016
OK it has started. 60K viewers. This in the sidebar:
Whoops. They just lost another 2K.
In the comment section (which moves so fast it is hard to read) it is stuff like "keep Sheria Law out of the schools." and "It has to be rigged, no one I know is voting for Hillary."
Just lost another 2K.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
Join us LIVE at 6:30pmE! Our nightly campaign coverage from Trump Tower!In 2 minutes they lost 2K viewers. It's Kellyanne Conway being "interviewed" by Boris Epshteyn and someone else I don't recognize.
This is a HISTORIC movement. Together, we will once again make a government by, for, and of the people! Help us close out the final weeks of this campaign strong and WIN.
Contribute $10 Now >>
Whoops. They just lost another 2K.
In the comment section (which moves so fast it is hard to read) it is stuff like "keep Sheria Law out of the schools." and "It has to be rigged, no one I know is voting for Hillary."
Just lost another 2K.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
@hillaryclinton
Trump loves conspiracy theories almost as much as his hat. But why choose?
Make your own tin foil #MAGA hat [tweet links to this page where you can cut out a tin foil MAGA hat]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:42 PM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
Trump loves conspiracy theories almost as much as his hat. But why choose?
Make your own tin foil #MAGA hat [tweet links to this page where you can cut out a tin foil MAGA hat]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:42 PM on October 24, 2016 [21 favorites]
The Donald Duck with tax returns sign has been around for a while hasn't it?
Yes I remember the Duck thing happening back in the spring before the RNC.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:43 PM on October 24, 2016
Yes I remember the Duck thing happening back in the spring before the RNC.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:43 PM on October 24, 2016
...And, finally — and much to our amazement — we are adding Texas to our list of competitive states, rating it as "lean Republican." The last three polls taken in the state have shown Trump ahead by three points (twice) and four points; the Real Clear Politics polling average in the state puts Trump up 4.6 points. It speaks to how badly Trump is performing even in longtime Republican strongholds that the debate going forward won't be whether Texas should stay on the list of competitive races but whether it should move to "toss up."Donald Trump's Chances of Winning Are Approaching Zero
posted by y2karl at 3:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Qanta Ahmed -- As a Muslim American, I will vote my conscience this November. By abstaining:
I keep telling people who say things like this: Don't abstain; vote a blank ballot. Put your name on the list of people who cared enough to participate.
If no candidates speak to you and you have no initiatives (or you firmly believe that's what you have a legislature to work on) - leave 'em blank. All of them, if you wish. But pick up the ballot, go into the little booth, look at the list of names, and hand that ballot in to the poll worker.
A protest vote that nobody sees is indistinguishable from apathy, and will be treated as such by politicians. If you want better politicians, let 'em know that none of them have reached you.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [31 favorites]
I keep telling people who say things like this: Don't abstain; vote a blank ballot. Put your name on the list of people who cared enough to participate.
If no candidates speak to you and you have no initiatives (or you firmly believe that's what you have a legislature to work on) - leave 'em blank. All of them, if you wish. But pick up the ballot, go into the little booth, look at the list of names, and hand that ballot in to the poll worker.
A protest vote that nobody sees is indistinguishable from apathy, and will be treated as such by politicians. If you want better politicians, let 'em know that none of them have reached you.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [31 favorites]
Meanwhile, they have seven TVs in the background all tuned to different cable news channels. That says something about how obsessed they are with cable news.
Other broadcast production tips:
- Don't make a huge deal out of saying "we need to go to break right now," cutting off your campaign manager mid-answer, when the "break" is just a video clip of Trump saying something about how Obamacare is awful from a debate.
- When your guest (Conway) leaves at a break, we shouldn't still see her in the background of the shot afterwards, because it makes it look like she has plenty of time to talk to everyone except us.
- Don't have someone Skype you in the middle of the broadcast, cutting off the audio.
- Don't show the Skype chat where you say "coming to you now" when you cut to another host.
Down to 44K and dropping.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [24 favorites]
Other broadcast production tips:
- Don't make a huge deal out of saying "we need to go to break right now," cutting off your campaign manager mid-answer, when the "break" is just a video clip of Trump saying something about how Obamacare is awful from a debate.
- When your guest (Conway) leaves at a break, we shouldn't still see her in the background of the shot afterwards, because it makes it look like she has plenty of time to talk to everyone except us.
- Don't have someone Skype you in the middle of the broadcast, cutting off the audio.
- Don't show the Skype chat where you say "coming to you now" when you cut to another host.
Down to 44K and dropping.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [24 favorites]
OK I've closed out the Facebook page but the last thing I saw was that 44K viewers. So in the first 15 minutes, 16 thousand people tuned in, said, "Not for me, thanks" and tuned out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:46 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:46 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
With the launch of his channel and his threat to not concede the election, Trump's never going to stop campaigning, is he?
Yesterday in Naples, Fl he said he wants to continue having “Trump rallies” for eight more years. I think we can take him at his word on that.
posted by peeedro at 3:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yesterday in Naples, Fl he said he wants to continue having “Trump rallies” for eight more years. I think we can take him at his word on that.
posted by peeedro at 3:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
He is Sisyphus and we are the boulder.
One must imagine the boulder happy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
One must imagine the boulder happy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
I just went to the page. The woman is talking about Donald Ducks and saying they were going to rallies to incite violence. And then something along the lines of 'And this is the level of corruption we're dealing with here people'.
So yeah the headline would be " Clinton got Donald Ducks to go to Trump Rallies to Incite Violence"
This is really happening....
posted by Jalliah at 3:52 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone know when failed presidential candidates lose their Secret Service protection? Is it immediate, is it after a few months, do they lose it completely or is there still a small presence there to investigate death threats and the like?
For how long is Trump going to be dragging what must by now be the most emotionally traumatised group of agents around, wasting taxpayer money and tying up resources?
posted by neonrev at 3:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
For how long is Trump going to be dragging what must by now be the most emotionally traumatised group of agents around, wasting taxpayer money and tying up resources?
posted by neonrev at 3:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
> If no candidates speak to you and you have no initiatives (or you firmly believe that's what you have a legislature to work on) - leave 'em blank. All of them, if you wish. But pick up the ballot, go into the little booth, look at the list of names, and hand that ballot in to the poll worker.
A protest vote that nobody sees is indistinguishable from apathy, and will be treated as such by politicians. If you want better politicians, let 'em know that none of them have reached you.
This complaint doesn't apply. People in the Clinton campaign know that Qanta Ahmed's abstinence is different from apathy. They know this because she wrote a piece in the Guardian about it. By writing a piece in the Guardian, Qanta Ahmed has successfully exerted more influence over the Clinton administration's foreign policy than she ever could by handing a poll worker a blank ballot or whatever.
Responding to her article by talking about whether or not abstaining from voting in protest makes sense requires treating article-writing as a less important political act than voting.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
A protest vote that nobody sees is indistinguishable from apathy, and will be treated as such by politicians. If you want better politicians, let 'em know that none of them have reached you.
This complaint doesn't apply. People in the Clinton campaign know that Qanta Ahmed's abstinence is different from apathy. They know this because she wrote a piece in the Guardian about it. By writing a piece in the Guardian, Qanta Ahmed has successfully exerted more influence over the Clinton administration's foreign policy than she ever could by handing a poll worker a blank ballot or whatever.
Responding to her article by talking about whether or not abstaining from voting in protest makes sense requires treating article-writing as a less important political act than voting.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Sorry to be unintentionally cryptic with the "TTTCS" earlier. I didn't have time to type the full thing, and between the election and originally hailing from Chicagoland, I'm just a roiling mass of superstition and jinx-anxiety at this point.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:58 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does anyone know when failed presidential candidates lose their Secret Service protection?
Romney came to his election night event in full Secret Service motorcade. His son drove him home.
posted by chris24 at 3:59 PM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Romney came to his election night event in full Secret Service motorcade. His son drove him home.
posted by chris24 at 3:59 PM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Does anyone know when failed presidential candidates lose their Secret Service protection?
For a few days.
For a few days. The Secret Service is authorized by law to protect major party presidential candidates beginning 120 days before the general election, but the statute doesn’t say when that protection should cease. It appears that the service makes this decision on case-by-case basis. Historically, agents have stuck with a defeated challenger for about a week after the election, not waiting for the Electoral College vote or inauguration. If the incumbent loses, he is entitled to protection for 10 years as a former president. (Presidents who served before 1997 are guarded for life.)
posted by Jalliah at 4:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
We have enough people not-voting already and toting around a received they're-all-the-same-why-bother attitude and I can't see as any calls to not vote are doing any good as far as getting any particular constituencies listened to any better. I much preferred Laurie Penny's take, posted a few times to these election threads, about when you're faced with candidates who you don't feel will represent you well, you should vote for the one you'd rather be fighting against to advance your agenda.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
reddit's /r/the_donald hasn't been this disappointed since Assange held his book release press conference.
I've never actually ventured over there until just now and it's pretty hilarious. Everything in all caps and lots of "BREAKING:" and "HOLY CRAP:". It's all so breathless and frantic. I'll have to check in again on Nov 9 to see how they're coping.
posted by octothorpe at 4:03 PM on October 24, 2016
I've never actually ventured over there until just now and it's pretty hilarious. Everything in all caps and lots of "BREAKING:" and "HOLY CRAP:". It's all so breathless and frantic. I'll have to check in again on Nov 9 to see how they're coping.
posted by octothorpe at 4:03 PM on October 24, 2016
"The Secret Service is authorized by law to protect major party presidential candidates beginning 120 days before the general election, but the statute doesn’t say when that protection should cease. It appears that the service makes this decision on case-by-case basis. Historically, agents have stuck with a defeated challenger for about a week after the election, not waiting for the Electoral College vote or inauguration. If the incumbent loses, he is entitled to protection for 10 years as a former president. (Presidents who served before 1997 are guarded for life.)" Source
posted by zakur at 4:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zakur at 4:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
DON'T TALK ABOUT DUCKS
Back in the day my friends and I drove people in a rival Internet gang absolutely bonkers by posting "the duck quacks at midnight" in response to all their attempts at trolling. It helped that the rival gang was full of conspiracy theorists.
posted by zennie at 4:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Back in the day my friends and I drove people in a rival Internet gang absolutely bonkers by posting "the duck quacks at midnight" in response to all their attempts at trolling. It helped that the rival gang was full of conspiracy theorists.
posted by zennie at 4:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
I really wonder what briefing Trump's Secret Service team has received regarding Election Night.
posted by Lexica at 4:06 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by Lexica at 4:06 PM on October 24, 2016
Trump doesn't really need USSS protection anyway: 11 Private Security Firms Guarding Donald Trump
posted by zakur at 4:07 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zakur at 4:07 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
11 Private Security Firms Guarding Donald Trump
...and sending their bills to the USSS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
...and sending their bills to the USSS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone know when failed presidential candidates lose their Secret Service protection? Is it immediate
I linked to this WaPo article yesterday which starts out
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I linked to this WaPo article yesterday which starts out
In the final pages of Richard Ben Cramer’s seminal book about presidential politics, “What It Takes,” Michael Dukakis looks around in wonderment at the scene outside his Massachusetts home less than 24 hours after his crushing 1988 loss to George H.W. Bush.Now Trump being Trump I'm going to guess that he demands the Secret Service continue to cover him for as long as possible because I have no doubt that having all those guys in uniform surrounding him inflates his sense of worth. I remember reading that in addition he also has private security-- several different companie in fact.
“The barricades were gone. And the agents. And the cop cars, the van, the people — that block had been wall-to-wall demonstrations,” Cramer wrote. No TV trucks, photographers, microphones. The only sound: birds.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
When the Las Vegas paper owned by Sheldon Adelson - the only major paper to endorse you - still has you down 7 in Nevada, the rigging goes deep.
posted by chris24 at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
If the incumbent loses, he is entitled to protection for 10 years as a former president. (Presidents who served before 1997 are guarded for life.)"
It's actually back to lifetime protection now per a statute passed in 2013, after that article was published.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
It's actually back to lifetime protection now per a statute passed in 2013, after that article was published.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Yesterday in Naples, Fl he said he wants to continue having “Trump rallies” for eight more years
Everyone needs a hobby.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Everyone needs a hobby.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ack should have previewed. I see that zakur provided the link to the info on the private security.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:11 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:11 PM on October 24, 2016
Just checked back on the Facebook feed. Down to 26K viewers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Qanta Ahmed isn't representing a block of potential Muslim voters who are up for grabs as much as she is representing a block of voters who are currently not represented within either of the two party coalitions. Anti-war voters who see stopping the drone war and dismantling the war on terror as the defining issue.
posted by humanfont at 4:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 4:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've always been curious what the data porn sites have on how long users watch individual videos before stopping looks like, and now I'm wondering how that compares to the drop-off rate on this Trump stream.
Same basic principle, they loaded it up, watched until satisfied and, being spent, are uninterested in the rest of the performance.
I jest, but it feels like a lot of the stuff Trump people are sharing on my social media stuff is pretty much intended to function as a brief hate top-off, not a long form series of ideas. I don't think most Trump people want to delve into politics and policy and plans, they just want a quick hit that confirms their biases and then they can go off on their angry, bitter way.
The kind of Trump supporter who can quote reams of 'evidence' on Clinton murder-plot theories and the like is in the minority of Trump supporters, but they are more noticeable because they help feed the beast of misinformation that is the Trump campaign.
posted by neonrev at 4:22 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Same basic principle, they loaded it up, watched until satisfied and, being spent, are uninterested in the rest of the performance.
I jest, but it feels like a lot of the stuff Trump people are sharing on my social media stuff is pretty much intended to function as a brief hate top-off, not a long form series of ideas. I don't think most Trump people want to delve into politics and policy and plans, they just want a quick hit that confirms their biases and then they can go off on their angry, bitter way.
The kind of Trump supporter who can quote reams of 'evidence' on Clinton murder-plot theories and the like is in the minority of Trump supporters, but they are more noticeable because they help feed the beast of misinformation that is the Trump campaign.
posted by neonrev at 4:22 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Columbia Journalism Review CNN’s pro-Trump posse clouds its journalism
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
The consensus headline from the third and final presidential debate was Republican candidate Donald Trump’s refusal to commit to accepting the 2016 election results. [...]I remember hearing about the CNN problem from one of the many podcasts I listen to that in the beginning of Trump's general election run they could not find any conservatives to offer a pro-Trump viewpoint so they added a bunch of hacks like Jeffry Lord and Cory Lewendowski-- people who will support uncritically anything that comes out of Trump's mouth-- which has made CNN appear at times less like a news show and more like a pro-Trump rally.
At CNN, however, confusion initially reigned. The network’s journalists expressed shock at Trump’s comments within seconds of the debate’s conclusion. “One of the most stunning things I’ve ever heard in a presidential debate, ever,” said Jake Tapper, the network’s chief Washington correspondent.[...]
But pro-Trump contributors attempted to muddle this point during a panel discussion after the debate, when viewership was likely highest. Their baseless speculation that the election might somehow be rigged overstepped CNN’s reporting and undercut its purported goal of informing its audience. The comments, which drew stern rebuttals from other CNN on-air talent, highlight how the network’s pursuit of the appearance of objectivity in 2016 has distorted its final product on television. It also provides a clear example of how the channel’s model puts CNN journalists in the awkward position of fact-checking CNN contributors in real time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
A HuffPo article published Aug 12: When It Comes To Donald Trump’s Russia Ties, It’s All About The Aides
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
And there’s also Boris Epshteyn, a Trump surrogate who frequently appears on television and describes himself as a senior adviser to the campaign. The Russia-born investment banker and attorney moderated a panel at an October 2013 conference in New York City called “Invest in Moscow!” The panel was mainly comprised of Moscow city government officials, like Sergey Cheremin, a city minister who heads Moscow’s foreign economic and international relations department.Gee do you think Donald's Facebook feed will feature the Invest in Moscow! panel show?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
My iPad is protecting me from Trump TV Live! by refusing to play flash video, with no other apparent alternative. I'm not complaining, but is this a weirdness on my end, or is Trump really holding an online event that is inaccessible to most iOS users?
posted by Westringia F. at 4:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Westringia F. at 4:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
(Just to be clear: I'm not looking for a fix/workaround; I'm curious whether this is another symptom of his campaign's incompetence.)
posted by Westringia F. at 4:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Westringia F. at 4:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
It plays fine on my iPhone. They are playing DJT himself-- I'm guessing he is at a rally now? No description just him talking in front of flags with sounds of a crowd cheering.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on October 24, 2016
> We have enough people not-voting already and toting around a received they're-all-the-same-why-bother attitude and I can't see as any calls to not vote are doing any good as far as getting any particular constituencies listened to any better. I much preferred Laurie Penny's take, posted a few times to these election threads, about when you're faced with candidates who you don't feel will represent you well, you should vote for the one you'd rather be fighting against to advance your agenda.
Yeah, I love that Laurie Penny quote too. But and also, writing in a major media outlet about why you, as a member of a particular demographic, are abstaining from voting for a candidate — or claiming to abstain — is a means of actually participating in the fight that Penny discusses.
The existence of an article in the Guardian from a relatively prominent Muslim-American discussing why she, as a Muslim-American, is abstaining from voting for Clinton is a (very small) means of exerting leverage over the future Clinton administration. The message of the article is the force it exerts; understood by this metric, the message isn't "Muslim-Americans should abstain from voting for Clinton," it's "Hey, Clinton! Don't want more articles like this one? Stop the drone attacks." The article would be much less effective if the stance taken was "I'm going to vote for you, but...," and it would be much less effective if it were written after the election.
Clinton, of course, is not going to stop drone attacks because of one well-timed article in the Guardian. The existence of that article may in some small way be a part of her team's calculus in future foreign policy decisions, though. Dr. Ahmed doesn't have much influence, but she's exerted much more influence than you or I ever likely will — no matter how or whether we vote.
Voting for your preferred enemy means also taking care to remember that they're not your friend, and that means looking for any point of leverage over them you have — any way to preempt their ability to take positions hostile to you and yours. Encouraging a group that is likely not going to be decisive in this election to abstain is an excellent way to gain a modicum of leverage.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I love that Laurie Penny quote too. But and also, writing in a major media outlet about why you, as a member of a particular demographic, are abstaining from voting for a candidate — or claiming to abstain — is a means of actually participating in the fight that Penny discusses.
The existence of an article in the Guardian from a relatively prominent Muslim-American discussing why she, as a Muslim-American, is abstaining from voting for Clinton is a (very small) means of exerting leverage over the future Clinton administration. The message of the article is the force it exerts; understood by this metric, the message isn't "Muslim-Americans should abstain from voting for Clinton," it's "Hey, Clinton! Don't want more articles like this one? Stop the drone attacks." The article would be much less effective if the stance taken was "I'm going to vote for you, but...," and it would be much less effective if it were written after the election.
Clinton, of course, is not going to stop drone attacks because of one well-timed article in the Guardian. The existence of that article may in some small way be a part of her team's calculus in future foreign policy decisions, though. Dr. Ahmed doesn't have much influence, but she's exerted much more influence than you or I ever likely will — no matter how or whether we vote.
Voting for your preferred enemy means also taking care to remember that they're not your friend, and that means looking for any point of leverage over them you have — any way to preempt their ability to take positions hostile to you and yours. Encouraging a group that is likely not going to be decisive in this election to abstain is an excellent way to gain a modicum of leverage.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
@ZekeMiller Now on Trump TV: @seanspicer, he jokes "I thought there was free food"
So I guess the RNC/GOP are cool with this set up. I can't imagine FOX is OK with it though-- it will definitely be siphoning off some of their viewers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on October 24, 2016
So I guess the RNC/GOP are cool with this set up. I can't imagine FOX is OK with it though-- it will definitely be siphoning off some of their viewers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on October 24, 2016
Regarding the DNC having some kind of master website CMS/template for down ballot candidates: never underestimate the ability of users to insert ugly clip art and 13 different fonts into any kind of editable field, ruining your beautiful well-designed template and potentially breaking things. You'd have to have a seriously constricted WYSIWYG editor and not allow any image uploads. It's not impossible but it is harder than it sounds to maintain branding consistency across a large number of small, shoestring organizations while still giving them any flexibility to add their own content.
Source: I work for a international professional association with ~90 local chapters that all run themselves with varying levels of competence and staffing, some of which are entirely volunteer-run. Part of my job is to manage the relationship between some of these chapters and a third-party website provider that we work with to try to provide consistency and technical assistance for those that want/need it.
posted by misskaz at 4:43 PM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
Source: I work for a international professional association with ~90 local chapters that all run themselves with varying levels of competence and staffing, some of which are entirely volunteer-run. Part of my job is to manage the relationship between some of these chapters and a third-party website provider that we work with to try to provide consistency and technical assistance for those that want/need it.
posted by misskaz at 4:43 PM on October 24, 2016 [16 favorites]
And in local news, the Houston Chronicle is reporting that the early voting record has been shattered today: more than 63,000 in Harris county. The previous one-day record, from 2012, was 47,093.
This is one of the blue counties in a red state. I don't think it'll happen this year, but I can't help holding out hope that Trump has been enough to turn Texas blue.
posted by Salieri at 4:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
This is one of the blue counties in a red state. I don't think it'll happen this year, but I can't help holding out hope that Trump has been enough to turn Texas blue.
posted by Salieri at 4:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
I don't want to tempt the whatever, but I can't help wondering . . . will they light the White House pink when she wins? And how do I feel about that? I mean on the one hand, I do totally bristle at anything smacking of pink = girl. On the other hand, I can't think of anything better, and I do actually quite like some shades of pink, and think the White House would look pretty cool with a really strong fuchsia at the bottom fading to a pale pink at the top, and I would probably cry even more than I did at Rainbow White House.
posted by HotToddy at 4:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 4:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Republicans’ Last Hope: The Polls Are Wrong
A strategy that worked wonderfully for Romney.
posted by zakur at 4:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
A strategy that worked wonderfully for Romney.
posted by zakur at 4:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
“Trust me, if they went into our emails—I suppose which may happen, who knows—I’m sure there would be statements that would be less than flattering about, you know, the Clinton staff,” Sanders told the Washington Post on Monday. “That’s what happens in campaigns.”
Despite stolen emails showing top Clinton staff calling Sanders a “doofus” and calling supporters of a $15 minimum wage—which Sanders has advocated for vocally—“the Red Army,” the Vermont senator has continued to campaign heavily for Clinton nationwide, calling Trump the most dangerous major-party candidate in modern American history and promising that his more liberal supporters will hold Clinton accountable.
I am so very glad that Sanders is backing Clinton, that he has said he's going to do everything he can to help her get elected, that he is rising above his own disappointment and ego and personal slights to do what he thinks is right, which in this case is helping her win the election and then holding her accountable once she's in office. He is proving to be the pragmatic, principled politician I thought he was. This is what you do when you're a mature, responsible, clear-sighted person who genuinely cares about your country: if what you believe to be the best option turns out to be impossible, you look for the next best option and go with it -- you don't wash your hands of the whole situation and tell everyone else it'll be their fault if the end result is a disaster.
posted by orange swan at 4:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [70 favorites]
Despite stolen emails showing top Clinton staff calling Sanders a “doofus” and calling supporters of a $15 minimum wage—which Sanders has advocated for vocally—“the Red Army,” the Vermont senator has continued to campaign heavily for Clinton nationwide, calling Trump the most dangerous major-party candidate in modern American history and promising that his more liberal supporters will hold Clinton accountable.
I am so very glad that Sanders is backing Clinton, that he has said he's going to do everything he can to help her get elected, that he is rising above his own disappointment and ego and personal slights to do what he thinks is right, which in this case is helping her win the election and then holding her accountable once she's in office. He is proving to be the pragmatic, principled politician I thought he was. This is what you do when you're a mature, responsible, clear-sighted person who genuinely cares about your country: if what you believe to be the best option turns out to be impossible, you look for the next best option and go with it -- you don't wash your hands of the whole situation and tell everyone else it'll be their fault if the end result is a disaster.
posted by orange swan at 4:49 PM on October 24, 2016 [70 favorites]
Here is a nice fresh picture right off the presses! Oh Utah! I just had an in depth survey ending with the question, "Do you consider yourself transgendered?" There is a trans woman running against Mike Lee. They got my name and info because my mail-in vote is in their hot little hands.
They wanted to know every thing, saying they are from a team out of all eight universities in Utah. But the Republican party is watching this, and they are noting that a very high number of Democratic voters have already voted, somewhat out pacing the normal values. There was even the question, "Am I influenced to not vote for Trump, because of Mitt Romney's lack of support?" They are looking into this so they can get out their vote.
It turns out a lot of folks in Utah are undeclared, so it is either wishy, or washy somehow. The Democrats are open in their primaries, any one can vote, but Republicans only allow Republicans to vote in their primaries. A lot of people switch around to influence things, then vote as usual, or in this case vote unusual, run unusual, and who knows there may be surprises in Utah...nah, not gonna happen. ZZZZZZZZZZZ, maybe in another 30 years. I bet California is totally fun, my family over there is very active in things, I hope they get the results they have worked for.
posted by Oyéah at 4:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
They wanted to know every thing, saying they are from a team out of all eight universities in Utah. But the Republican party is watching this, and they are noting that a very high number of Democratic voters have already voted, somewhat out pacing the normal values. There was even the question, "Am I influenced to not vote for Trump, because of Mitt Romney's lack of support?" They are looking into this so they can get out their vote.
It turns out a lot of folks in Utah are undeclared, so it is either wishy, or washy somehow. The Democrats are open in their primaries, any one can vote, but Republicans only allow Republicans to vote in their primaries. A lot of people switch around to influence things, then vote as usual, or in this case vote unusual, run unusual, and who knows there may be surprises in Utah...nah, not gonna happen. ZZZZZZZZZZZ, maybe in another 30 years. I bet California is totally fun, my family over there is very active in things, I hope they get the results they have worked for.
posted by Oyéah at 4:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Curt Schilling's weirdo interview with Jake Tapper and his pathetic Trump rally have already paid off: Curt Schilling Joins Breitbart."
And the election gets yet one more notable notch weirder.
posted by Evilspork at 4:52 PM on October 24, 2016
And the election gets yet one more notable notch weirder.
posted by Evilspork at 4:52 PM on October 24, 2016
Knowing Disney's tendency toward 'intellectual property protection', I wonder if they're going to send anybody a Cease & Desist over unauthorized use of the Donald Duck character. And who they'll send it to - it could be Trump's campaign because they're making it such a big deal. That'd be sure proof The Media is out to get him, right? Well, the Mahna Mahna Trump Debate video is still up, and I'm positive they used the version from The Muppet Show (and remember, Disney owns them Muppets now) because it's shorter than the original and I definitely recognize Frank Oz's character voice... if Frank's okay with it, then we all shoud be.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy, you get 40% of my favorites today for this. I have no issue with the networks or channels using people other than journalists to beef up the on-air content and provide an array of viewpoints so long as those people are not blindered sheeple who are not willing to answer journalists' questions and simply pivot to their campaign talking points for the day which invariably have factual problems and are invariably too strident to listen to. I change the channel when I see any of them on the set.
In other news, I mailed my ballot off today after triple-checking that all of the bubbles were correctly filled in and no extraneous verbiage around and about certain candidates' names. Yay, early voting!
posted by Silverstone at 5:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
In other news, I mailed my ballot off today after triple-checking that all of the bubbles were correctly filled in and no extraneous verbiage around and about certain candidates' names. Yay, early voting!
posted by Silverstone at 5:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
will they light the White House pink when she wins?
Blue, surely.
>Republicans’ Last Hope: The Polls Are Wrong
A strategy that worked wonderfully for Romney
Well, that was his internal polling being at odds with public (and, likely, Dem internal) polls.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:06 PM on October 24, 2016
Blue, surely.
>Republicans’ Last Hope: The Polls Are Wrong
A strategy that worked wonderfully for Romney
Well, that was his internal polling being at odds with public (and, likely, Dem internal) polls.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:06 PM on October 24, 2016
MY HILLARY HOODIE ARRIVED
IT IS AS WARM AND SOFT AS A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
posted by schadenfrau at 5:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [116 favorites]
IT IS AS WARM AND SOFT AS A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
posted by schadenfrau at 5:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [116 favorites]
Well, that was his internal polling being at odds with public (and, likely, Dem internal) polls.
From the article, the Trump campaign's version of internal polling is:
From the article, the Trump campaign's version of internal polling is:
He's also using Trump's large crowds as anecdotal evidence to support his theory that his candidate is not behind.posted by zakur at 5:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Spending 5 minutes watching the comments on the Trump TV Facebook thing was pretty horrifying. All the talk of him bringing God back to America (he doesn't care), putting Clinton in Gitmo because baby murderer (he doesn't care about abortion), calls for armed uprising (he doesn't care if you have a gun or not). So disheartening.
posted by thebrokedown at 5:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 5:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
/r/politics on a possible $17M Mar Lago hurricane insurance fraud
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:14 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Republicans’ Last Hope: The Polls Are Wrong
Campaign damage critical! Raise the reality deflection shields! Man the unskewing turrets!
posted by tonycpsu at 5:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Campaign damage critical! Raise the reality deflection shields! Man the unskewing turrets!
posted by tonycpsu at 5:16 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Steve Schmidt just told Chris Hayes that the Dems are making a strategic mistake trotting out Warren and Sanders because it will excite the Republican electorate to vote against the Dem down ballot. Thoughts?
posted by xyzzy at 5:19 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by xyzzy at 5:19 PM on October 24, 2016
> Steve Schmidt just told Chris Hayes that the Dems are making a strategic mistake trotting out Warren and Sanders because it will excite the Republican electorate to vote against the Dem down ballot. Thoughts?
I'm not sure the words of Republican Party political strategists on cable news shows are worth thoughts.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm not sure the words of Republican Party political strategists on cable news shows are worth thoughts.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
MY HILLARY HOODIE ARRIVED
IT IS AS WARM AND SOFT AS A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
MINE ARRIVED THE MORNING OF THE FIRST DEBATE
I SHOULD PROBABLY WASH IT
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [30 favorites]
IT IS AS WARM AND SOFT AS A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
MINE ARRIVED THE MORNING OF THE FIRST DEBATE
I SHOULD PROBABLY WASH IT
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [30 favorites]
I cast my ballot from the comfort of my own couch today! Mail-in voting is the best.
posted by theraflu at 5:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by theraflu at 5:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Steve Schmidt just told Chris Hayes that the Dems are making a strategic mistake trotting out Warren and Sanders because it will excite the Republican electorate to vote against the Dem down ballot. Thoughts?I think that's desperate grasping at straws. There's no way that Warren and Sanders will motivate the Republican base any more than Hillary herself would.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [28 favorites]
Mod note: Friendly reminder, please don't use the edit function to add/change content. Just make a second comment instead.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Steve Schmidt just told Chris Hayes that the Dems are making a strategic mistake trotting out Warren and Sanders because it will excite the Republican electorate to vote against the Dem down ballot. Thoughts?
Republicans they can vote for don't excite them, but Dems they can't vote against will?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Republicans they can vote for don't excite them, but Dems they can't vote against will?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is a serious question-- do we teach people in school how voting works and your rights and responsibilities? I ask because I seem to encounter so many Americans lately (charming, educated people) who literally seem to have no idea how any of it actually works, or why their vote might be important or even really about the Electoral College system. I'm trying to remember if I was taught this in school or not, but I'm middle aged and don't remember not knowing this.
What sparked the question today-- a woman I know who lives in NL just proudly posted on Facebook that she wrote in "Obama" for her Florida ballot. She didn't understand why people are so angry at her because she *insists* that since she wrote in a Democrat then the vote would go to Clinton anyhow. She insists this is how it works in Florida and has descended into apparent tears of rage because her friends are (honestly, pretty gently) pointing out that this is not so. (She's a bit older than me and one of the women who can't forgive Clinton for "mocking housewives" during her stint as First Lady. Sigh.)
posted by frumiousb at 5:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
What sparked the question today-- a woman I know who lives in NL just proudly posted on Facebook that she wrote in "Obama" for her Florida ballot. She didn't understand why people are so angry at her because she *insists* that since she wrote in a Democrat then the vote would go to Clinton anyhow. She insists this is how it works in Florida and has descended into apparent tears of rage because her friends are (honestly, pretty gently) pointing out that this is not so. (She's a bit older than me and one of the women who can't forgive Clinton for "mocking housewives" during her stint as First Lady. Sigh.)
posted by frumiousb at 5:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
> Steve Schmidt just told Chris Hayes that the Dems are making a strategic mistake trotting out Warren and Sanders because it will excite the Republican electorate to vote against the Dem down ballot. Thoughts?
It's a lot harder to get someone to go out and spite vote someone than it is to get someone to vote excitedly for a candidate. Hate is good for short term polls, but is hard to sustain.
If anything, Warren and Sanders are hedging the bets for the Clinton campaign against the same unexcited voter demographic (just the Democrat/Left leaning ones) - they aren't going to vote to spite Trump, but they would vote to put Sanders in charge of the budget committee or to give Warren stronger support in the senate, if they aren't directly in support of Clinton.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's a lot harder to get someone to go out and spite vote someone than it is to get someone to vote excitedly for a candidate. Hate is good for short term polls, but is hard to sustain.
If anything, Warren and Sanders are hedging the bets for the Clinton campaign against the same unexcited voter demographic (just the Democrat/Left leaning ones) - they aren't going to vote to spite Trump, but they would vote to put Sanders in charge of the budget committee or to give Warren stronger support in the senate, if they aren't directly in support of Clinton.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Obama is on Kimmel tonight and he does a Mean Tweets segment.
Also this
@ZekeJMiller 5m Preview from ABC: Kimmel: “Do you ever actually laugh when you watch Donald Trump [in debates]” Obama: "most of the time."
He is trolling Trump so hard right now. It's amazing.
posted by Jalliah at 5:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [47 favorites]
Colorado’s first transgender candidate for Congress challenges Lamborn in state’s most conservative district
“I’ve been content to stay in the shadows for a long time,” she said. She vowed to keep no secrets, to run an honest race — she wouldn’t hide anything about herself, but she wouldn’t make being transgender a major part of her campaign either. “You can’t escape who you are, but no one should ever vote based on whether you are gay or straight or black or white or blond or red-haired. It should always be about issues and about people.”posted by audi alteram partem at 5:31 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
My 16-year old daughter filled in the bubble for Hillary, and one of us choked up. She said "Awwww," anyway. And I drove the ballot directly to county election headquaters. Another one in the bank.
posted by msalt at 5:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by msalt at 5:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [31 favorites]
Even MAD Magazine is using Trump's real tweets instead of writing their own material (well, some of them).
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:35 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:35 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Westringia F. For iOS devices you need to watch the live feeds from the Facebook app instead of following the link from the thread in Safari.
I hope Trump is taking the lazy route with "Trump TV" and not making any plans for how to stream other than using Facebook. The cracks are already starting to form as users and employees flag his hate speech as hate speech. Facebook will bend the the rules for candidate Trump but after the election he will get less consideration.
posted by metaphorever at 5:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I hope Trump is taking the lazy route with "Trump TV" and not making any plans for how to stream other than using Facebook. The cracks are already starting to form as users and employees flag his hate speech as hate speech. Facebook will bend the the rules for candidate Trump but after the election he will get less consideration.
posted by metaphorever at 5:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
People asking about education: I graduated from high school in Ohio in 1985, and every senior was required to take and pass Civics, which included such juicy topics as the checks and balances between our federal executive, legislative, and judicial system; how a bill becomes a law; what the electoral college does; and what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights contained. In fact, I remember a test in which we had to write, from memory, the preamble to the Constitution. (Not a problem for those of us versed in schoolhouse rock.)
Now, whether anyone retains that information...
posted by tuesdayschild at 5:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Now, whether anyone retains that information...
posted by tuesdayschild at 5:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Steve Schmidt is really smart, but ultimately, he's wrong. Warren and sanders are going to GOTV on the Democrats side. I don't think they'll have any effect on GOTV or downballot on the republican side at all. No one's saying, "Ooh, I hate that Warren lady. I'm totally going to the polls to vote for my representatives."
posted by Sophie1 at 5:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 5:36 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
> Steve Schmidt is really smart, but ultimately, he's wrong.
Do you think Steve Schmidt has any concern over whether his theorycrafting is "right" or "wrong"? That's not how this sort of discourse works, I don't think.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Do you think Steve Schmidt has any concern over whether his theorycrafting is "right" or "wrong"? That's not how this sort of discourse works, I don't think.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well since we're on the subject of Texas voting, should I vote early or on election day?
Lots of good reasons to vote early have already been presented, notably preventing voter intimidation and hacking from affecting the vote, and helping Clinton's campaign focus.
A key point: where this really matters is in big cities. We saw in 2012 and in this year's primaries, insanely long lines where people had to wait many hours to vote. Invariably, these were big city precincts where -- guess what?! -- minority and Democratic voters are concentrated.
Any place that's crowded is much easier to bottleneck, whether it's technical problems, cutting back polling places to "save money," or outright intimidation by armed Trump "poll watchers." The more people vote early, the less potential there is for these problems.
posted by msalt at 5:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Lots of good reasons to vote early have already been presented, notably preventing voter intimidation and hacking from affecting the vote, and helping Clinton's campaign focus.
A key point: where this really matters is in big cities. We saw in 2012 and in this year's primaries, insanely long lines where people had to wait many hours to vote. Invariably, these were big city precincts where -- guess what?! -- minority and Democratic voters are concentrated.
Any place that's crowded is much easier to bottleneck, whether it's technical problems, cutting back polling places to "save money," or outright intimidation by armed Trump "poll watchers." The more people vote early, the less potential there is for these problems.
posted by msalt at 5:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
People asking about education: I graduated from high school in Ohio in 1985,
Common Core doesn't care about local niceties.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:43 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Common Core doesn't care about local niceties.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:43 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I missed that, but you should definitely vote early. You will eliminate the possibility that something will go wrong on election day that will keep you from voting (an emergency at work, the car breaking down, etc.), it will probably be easier for you, and you will be doing the Democrats a big favor. If you have already voted, they can eliminate you from their call and walk lists, which means they can concentrate their resources on people who are not as motivated to vote as you are.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
North Carolina update: Unsurprisingly, all the sample ballots in North Carolina place the Republicans above other parties for every office. Why is this relevant? The first name on the list is most often chosen by undecided voters.
For the first week of early voting, there are only five polling stations for the 200,000 voters of Durham County, mainly in predominantly white or gentrifying neighborhoods. For the remaining time, there are 13 early voting stations, two of them inexplicably within a mile of each other at the exclusively white-collar corporate Research Triangle Park non-residential area.
posted by ardgedee at 5:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
For the first week of early voting, there are only five polling stations for the 200,000 voters of Durham County, mainly in predominantly white or gentrifying neighborhoods. For the remaining time, there are 13 early voting stations, two of them inexplicably within a mile of each other at the exclusively white-collar corporate Research Triangle Park non-residential area.
posted by ardgedee at 5:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
To add to the pileon, voting early smoothes things out for people who are literally taking their lunch hour to vote. The more people who vote early, the faster the lines, which (a) encourages them to stick around and vote, and (b) reduces their exposure outside the polling place, where violence may erupt.
If you can early vote, do it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
If you can early vote, do it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
re: Sanders and Warren
I just got a recorded call from Ed Martin (chair of the Missouri GOP and treasurer of Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle PAC). The gist (not word for word):
posted by Chanther at 5:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
I just got a recorded call from Ed Martin (chair of the Missouri GOP and treasurer of Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle PAC). The gist (not word for word):
I need a favor. I need you to vote for Senator Roy Blunt for the United States Senate. Elizabeth Warren, the liberal senator from Massachusetts, is coming to Missouri to try to tell Missourians that they should vote for Jason Kander. Missourians don't want Hillary Clinton or liberal senators like Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and their policies of abortion on demand, tax dollars that support amnesty for illegals, and more and more government spending. Hillary Clinton and the liberal Elizabeth Warren from Massachusetts want you to elect Jason Kander to support all of their liberal policies. We need a senator who will stand up to Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren, and that's why I hope you'll join me in voting for Roy Blunt.So they're certainly making a play for Blunt here with the assumption that Clinton is going to win and only Blunt can stop her from having a liberal field day (the message tried to fit in the words liberal and Massachusetts as many times as it could in 30 seconds). Not sure how I ended up on their call list, since I have donated both to HRC and Kander - they may be blanketing the state, for all I know.
(Paid for by Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle PAC, Ed Martin, Treasurer)
posted by Chanther at 5:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
@JonLemire In penultimate week of campaign, Trump is taking break to attend official opening of new Washington hotel
Attached is an announcement that Wednesday, October 26 at 11:00 A.M. Mr. Trump will be holding a Grand Opening and ribbon cutting event. Glad to see his priorities are always to his businesses first.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Attached is an announcement that Wednesday, October 26 at 11:00 A.M. Mr. Trump will be holding a Grand Opening and ribbon cutting event. Glad to see his priorities are always to his businesses first.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
HE'S GOING THERE TO TAKE A NAP!!!!!!!
posted by dersins at 5:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by dersins at 5:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
What do you want to bet it will be covered LIVE! on Trump TV.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
The press should simply not send anybody to cover it and ignore it: "Donald Trump took a break from campaigning today to attend to his business affairs as a government contractor. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton..."
posted by zachlipton at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
What do you want to bet it will be covered LIVE! on Trump TV.
Think it will be live on CNN? You'd think they'd learned their lesson by now, but...
posted by Surely This at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2016
Think it will be live on CNN? You'd think they'd learned their lesson by now, but...
posted by Surely This at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2016
Unsurprisingly, all the sample ballots in North Carolina place the Republicans above other parties for every office.
State law, passed in 2013 a few months after McCrony and his GOP supermajority were sworn in: the incumbent governor's party gets first place on the ballot. Yeah.
Another aspect of "vote early" is that it should reduce the workload of campaign lawyers to file emergency motions extending the polling hours.
posted by holgate at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
State law, passed in 2013 a few months after McCrony and his GOP supermajority were sworn in: the incumbent governor's party gets first place on the ballot. Yeah.
Another aspect of "vote early" is that it should reduce the workload of campaign lawyers to file emergency motions extending the polling hours.
posted by holgate at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Look, I Wish I Were Better At This Also by Gary Johnson.
posted by Justinian at 6:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 6:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
[fake; onion]
posted by dersins at 6:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by dersins at 6:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
do we teach people in school how voting works and your rights and responsibilities?
Probably? But like everything else you're supposed to learn in school, a lot of that depends on
I'm genuinely excited by and interested in this stuff now, but it wasn't until switching high schools to another state junior year that I actually had engaging enough teachers to bother paying attention, and plenty of people who had those exact teachers probably couldn't tell you what the bicameral legislature is or name a Supreme Court Justice today.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Probably? But like everything else you're supposed to learn in school, a lot of that depends on
- 1. How much you absorb
2. How good/where your school was.
3. How much you cared at the time.
4. How much you've used it since.
I'm genuinely excited by and interested in this stuff now, but it wasn't until switching high schools to another state junior year that I actually had engaging enough teachers to bother paying attention, and plenty of people who had those exact teachers probably couldn't tell you what the bicameral legislature is or name a Supreme Court Justice today.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
CNN How the GOP's first female presidential campaign manager manages Donald Trump
I sense that like so many other areas of his life he really cannot hire the best because a) he doesn't want to pay for the best and b) because he has a bad reputation. She was not a professional campaign manager but she got the job because nobody wanted it. I'm torn. I want to admire her for taking on this very important job (first woman ever to run a GOP presidential race) yet I really dislike how she is willing to defend the indefensible so in a way I hope she never gets another job. Maybe she'll get hired by CNN after all this over and she can provide a counter-point to whatever narrative comes out of Washington. I mean I don't want to see her on TV but I never purposefully watch CNN so I really don't care.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
It's his campaign, and it's his candidacy, and in the end, yes, I feel comfortable with his voice and his choice," said Conway.Ugh, he calls her "honey" and she seems to be fine with that. He isn't her dad or her boyfriend. And how hilarious she has to say about the man running for President "I can't take away his twitter account."
Yet when pressed, she admitted that "Donald Trump is at his very best, at his very best, when he talks about the issues."
Translation: Going off message hurts Trump.
Still, Conway insists she's tough with Trump in private. As an example, she told us what happened when they got on the plane after his Gettysburg speech.
"I don't sugarcoat at all," said Conway.
She told him after his off script rant, "You and I are in a fight for the next 17 days."
When Trump asked why, Conway replied: "Because I know you're going to win. And that comment you just made sounds like you think you're going to lose. And we're going to argue about it until you win."
His response?
"He was like, 'OK, honey. Then we'll win,' " Conway said.[...]
"People will seriously say, 'Can't you delete his Twitter account?'" said Conway.
"I'm not going to take away -- it's not for me to take away a grown man's Twitter account," she added.
I sense that like so many other areas of his life he really cannot hire the best because a) he doesn't want to pay for the best and b) because he has a bad reputation. She was not a professional campaign manager but she got the job because nobody wanted it. I'm torn. I want to admire her for taking on this very important job (first woman ever to run a GOP presidential race) yet I really dislike how she is willing to defend the indefensible so in a way I hope she never gets another job. Maybe she'll get hired by CNN after all this over and she can provide a counter-point to whatever narrative comes out of Washington. I mean I don't want to see her on TV but I never purposefully watch CNN so I really don't care.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on October 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Guys. Donald Trump's deceased brother-in-law (married to his federal judge sister) was literally the lawyer who defended the Republican Party and lost the voter intimidation consent decree case in 1981.
posted by xyzzy at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
If you haven't gotten your mail ballot, check sooner rather than later. Mine never showed up on the last election (it showed up in the neighbor's mail, too late) and by the time I contacted the county, it was about a week until the election and I caused them a lot of trouble and vice versa. I had to go there in person, swear I hadn't voted, get another ballot, and then they told me it was too late to mail it in and I'd have to deliver it to a polling place in person. So yes, if you're in CA you should have it by now, so contact them ASAP.
As for checking my ballot's status, it's not received yet. This makes me nervous.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
As for checking my ballot's status, it's not received yet. This makes me nervous.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, this feels like oppo droppo, or at least a gossipy first course with more to follow: Trump's one-stop parties at the Plaza: young models, booze & cocaine provided.
posted by holgate at 6:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by holgate at 6:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [22 favorites]
The girls were as young as 15, he says, and “over their heads, they had no idea, and they ended up in situations. There were always dramas because the men threw money and drugs at them to keep them enticed. It’s based on power and dominating girls who can’t push back and can be discarded. There’s always someone to pick them back up. Nobody wants to call home and say ‘Help me.’”He might not have slept with a 15 year old but I would be willing to bet he watched a 15 year old having sex.
Trump would “go from room to room,” said the photographer, who added that “I was there to party myself. It was guys with younger girls, sex, a lot of sex, a lot of cocaine, top-shelf liquor” but no smoking. Trump didn’t approve of cigarettes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
I live in Europe, and am trying to figure out when I'll get to go to bed on election day. I'm expecting/hoping for 11pm eastern (that's 17pm, er 5 am, for me). Specifically, playing with a combo of the 538 expected-margins snake, and the state poll opening and closing times, I find the following:
If Hillary has a clear win (which I'm defining as, so clear it is called when the polls in that state close) in every state from Pennsylvania bluer, then it will be called when Hawaii closes (midnight eastern, if I read their ballotpedia's colors right?).
If she has a clear win in every state from Pennsylvania bluer, plus any one other state (choose one from Nevada, Florida, NC, Ohio, Iowa, Arizona), then I can go to bed by 11pm eastern.
If she has a clear win in every state currently labelled blue, then it's 10pm eastern. (Pretty unlikely- Arizona, Iowa, Maine's 2nd, and Ohio would have to be clear Clinton wins).
If she has a clear win in every state currently labelled blue by 538, plus Georgia, then it's 9pm eastern. (Very unlikely. If Georgia's clearly blue...)
There isn't any chance for earlier: Before 8pm eastern there aren't enough electoral votes available. At 8pm eastern there are exactly 270 votes available, but that includes for example Oklahoma's 7 and West Virginia's 5.
(No asking questions about what time it is *now* or why I'm still awake. grr.)
posted by nat at 6:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
If Hillary has a clear win (which I'm defining as, so clear it is called when the polls in that state close) in every state from Pennsylvania bluer, then it will be called when Hawaii closes (midnight eastern, if I read their ballotpedia's colors right?).
If she has a clear win in every state from Pennsylvania bluer, plus any one other state (choose one from Nevada, Florida, NC, Ohio, Iowa, Arizona), then I can go to bed by 11pm eastern.
If she has a clear win in every state currently labelled blue, then it's 10pm eastern. (Pretty unlikely- Arizona, Iowa, Maine's 2nd, and Ohio would have to be clear Clinton wins).
If she has a clear win in every state currently labelled blue by 538, plus Georgia, then it's 9pm eastern. (Very unlikely. If Georgia's clearly blue...)
There isn't any chance for earlier: Before 8pm eastern there aren't enough electoral votes available. At 8pm eastern there are exactly 270 votes available, but that includes for example Oklahoma's 7 and West Virginia's 5.
(No asking questions about what time it is *now* or why I'm still awake. grr.)
posted by nat at 6:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
So I went to the rally in NH today! There were so many people there and we were in line forever. The line itself was 3/4 mile long. But we finally got in, just in time for Warren to come out swinging about "nasty women." Then Hillary came out and did her thing. She spoke extensively about the down ballot candidates running in NH. I'm sure her speech was a standard stump speech, but standing there this afternoon in the sun, surrounded by cheering people, it felt like history.
posted by Biblio at 6:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 6:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [32 favorites]
HuffPo Trump’s Donors Paid For His Jetliner, His Hotels And Now, His Books
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
WASHINGTON ― Donald Trump used small donors’ money to buy nearly $300,000 worth of books from the publisher of his Art of the Deal last month, continuing a pattern of plowing campaign money back into his own businesses.He did the same thing right before the RNC-- used campaign funds to pay thousands of his books to give out at the convention. I remember there was a question whether it was campaign fraud because he would receive cash back in the form of royalties.
The Oct. 15 Federal Election Commission filing for Trump Make America Great Again Committee does not specify which books in particular were purchased, but the committee’s own website suggests it was Trump’s 1987 business bestseller.
“I’ve signed an out-of-print, hardcover copy of ‘The Art of the Deal’ just for you, because I want you on board with Team Trump!” Trump wrote in an Aug. 2 fundraising email, which went on to offer the book for a minimum donation of $184.
Trump’s statement calling the book “out-of-print,” repeated on the committee’s website, however, is false. The Art of the Deal had a new paperback edition printed last October, and the hardcover is currently in print and available from Random House and retail booksellers. Barnes and Noble, for example, sells it for $22.35.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
@ddale8 Listening to DC finance man on first date mansplain that Hillary Clinton "really needs Ohio." The woman is fact-checking him with her face.
Fact-checking him with her face. LOL I think I do this to my husband.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [61 favorites]
Fact-checking him with her face. LOL I think I do this to my husband.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [61 favorites]
Is the question whether you want to be awake when Clinton formally crosses 270, or is the question whether you want to go to sleep when it's certain Clinton is going to win? Cause if it's the latter, just plan on being awake / waking up when the polls close in the eastern and central time zone states. Unless I'm eyeballing it wrong, we'll know that Clinton's won if she wins any one of Florida, Ohio, or North Carolina, and she's almost certainly going to win at least one of those three states.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:28 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:28 PM on October 24, 2016
I think the big oppo droppo will be video of Donnie doing coke with some of those much younger women, and bragging how the little people, losers, don't get to do that.
posted by vrakatar at 6:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 6:29 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I live in Europe, and am trying to figure out when I'll get to go to bed on election day. I'm expecting/hoping for 11pm eastern (
Georgia closes at 7pm. If Hill gets that you can go to bed.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Georgia closes at 7pm. If Hill gets that you can go to bed.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was going with formally crossing 270, because yes, some of those later time zone states are very clear. (If I'm going with "she's got this", well, then I wouldn't be worried about going to sleep, i think.)
posted by nat at 6:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by nat at 6:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just made 30 calls straight to Ohio and only one person answered the phone, and that was to tell me their son is away someplace else at school, so I'm in a bit of a "screw Ohio" mood right now.
posted by zachlipton at 6:35 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:35 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was going to stop posting and go watch some West Wing, but OMG;
HuffPo Republicans Threaten Lawsuits Over TV Ads Linking Them To Donald Trump
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [42 favorites]
HuffPo Republicans Threaten Lawsuits Over TV Ads Linking Them To Donald Trump
WASHINGTON ― Some Republicans are running so far away from their party’s nominee that they are threatening to sue TV stations for running ads that suggest they support Donald Trump.I mean...how bad is this election? I just....
Just two weeks before Election Day, five Republicans ― Reps. Bob Dold (R-Ill.), Mike Coffman (R-Colo.), David Jolly (R-Fla.), John Katko (R-N.Y.) and Brian Fitzpatrick, a Pennsylvania Republican running for an open seat that’s currently occupied by his brother ― contend that certain commercials paid for by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee provide false or misleading information by connecting them to the GOP nominee.
Trump is so terrible, these Republicans are essentially arguing, that tying them to him amounts to defamation.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [42 favorites]
Typically the elections tend to get called in the 10PM-midnight EST range. However, both of Obama's elections went off without a hitch and were called earlier than that IIRC. (2008 for sure, because I remember going home from the bar early feeling like the party was just getting started, 2012 I'm less clear because it happened while I was on a cross-country flight.)
If this is the landslide the polls are predicting, it may happen relatively early. If a lot of states are too close to call when the polls close, it will be later.
posted by Sara C. at 6:38 PM on October 24, 2016
If this is the landslide the polls are predicting, it may happen relatively early. If a lot of states are too close to call when the polls close, it will be later.
posted by Sara C. at 6:38 PM on October 24, 2016
I boggle that Cory Lewandowski was Trump's campaign manager in the primaries, left the campaign in disgrace after allegedly assaulting a reporter, and was already a paid commentator on CNN by the time the general election got rolling. CNN has got to be the most abjectly bankrupt journalistic endeavor ever. They have nothing to say that is worth listening to, and Lewandowski is a ratfucker of the highest order.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:39 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Fact-checking him with her face. LOL I think I do this to my husband.
I love this phrase so much!
posted by Jalliah at 6:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I love this phrase so much!
posted by Jalliah at 6:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
CNN has got to be the most abjectly bankrupt journalistic endeavor ever.
Fox? Oh, you said "journalistic". Never mind.
posted by Surely This at 6:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fox? Oh, you said "journalistic". Never mind.
posted by Surely This at 6:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
He might not have slept with a 15 year old but I would be willing to bet he watched a 15 year old having sex.
While talking about the merits of Huey Lewis and Phil Collins.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
While talking about the merits of Huey Lewis and Phil Collins.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yeah, at least with Fox they don't pretend to be anything that they're not. You know what you're getting with Fox, it's just that what you're getting is false, hateful, and vile. CNN purports to be a respectable news agency, yet they blatantly hire Donald Trump's campaign manager while Donald Trump is running for president. I still have trouble believing it, yet there he is.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
Surely this is not at all an original thought, but Trump seems to me like a guy who has paid for an abortion. Or--given his patterns--promised to pay for one, pushed a woman to do it, and then never paid up.
posted by carrienation at 6:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by carrienation at 6:48 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Contrary to what Trump claims, none of his accusers have been proved to be lying: Most of the women's accounts are corroborated by people they told about them contemporaneously.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:52 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:52 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Charles Pierce: Today I Met a Man Who Knows What Freedom Is, And listened to what three Democratic women had to say about a sexist demagogue.
posted by homunculus at 6:54 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 6:54 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I live in Europe, and am trying to figure out when I'll get to go to bed on election day.
See this AskMe, add one hour.
posted by holgate at 6:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
See this AskMe, add one hour.
posted by holgate at 6:55 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Surely this is not at all an original thought, but Trump seems to me like a guy who has paid for an abortion. Or--given his patterns--promised to pay for one, pushed a woman to do it, and then never paid up.
My husband keeps expecting someone to come forward to announce she was forced to abort his baby. I seriously doubt this will ever happen because generally women are not too willing to go public with that information. If something like this did happen in the 80's or 90's the woman could be married with kids of her own-- even grandkids. Who wants that moment in the spotlight? Especially when she would be doing it for free. On the other hand if a magazine like the Daily Mail paid $100,000 for someone's story, I could see that happening. A bit hard to prove though.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
My husband keeps expecting someone to come forward to announce she was forced to abort his baby. I seriously doubt this will ever happen because generally women are not too willing to go public with that information. If something like this did happen in the 80's or 90's the woman could be married with kids of her own-- even grandkids. Who wants that moment in the spotlight? Especially when she would be doing it for free. On the other hand if a magazine like the Daily Mail paid $100,000 for someone's story, I could see that happening. A bit hard to prove though.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:56 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
So,
One of the people in the O'Keefe videos, though not named worked with Breibart to disrupt Rubio's campaign.
Breitbart coordinated with liberal activist and organizer who disrupted GOP primary campaign events
A liberal activist and organizer coordinated with reporters from the conservative news site Breitbart during the primaries to cover his disruptions of events for candidates such as Sen. Marco Rubio.
Aaron Black, an associate with Democracy Partners and a former Occupy Wall Street organizer, worked with the pro-Trump site Breitbart, tipping them off about his stunts, exchanging raw video and coordinating coverage, according to a source with direct knowledge of the situation.
Black has resurfaced recently as one of the people featured in undercover video from the Project Veritas group. In the video, he claims to work for the DNC. Though he does not appear on their payroll, his bio at Democracy Partners credits him with "working closely with the Democratic National Committee" during the 2012 election cycle. Black in the video says he helped organize violent protests in Chicago that led to Trump's cancellation of a rally there in March.
posted by Jalliah at 6:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
One of the people in the O'Keefe videos, though not named worked with Breibart to disrupt Rubio's campaign.
Breitbart coordinated with liberal activist and organizer who disrupted GOP primary campaign events
A liberal activist and organizer coordinated with reporters from the conservative news site Breitbart during the primaries to cover his disruptions of events for candidates such as Sen. Marco Rubio.
Aaron Black, an associate with Democracy Partners and a former Occupy Wall Street organizer, worked with the pro-Trump site Breitbart, tipping them off about his stunts, exchanging raw video and coordinating coverage, according to a source with direct knowledge of the situation.
Black has resurfaced recently as one of the people featured in undercover video from the Project Veritas group. In the video, he claims to work for the DNC. Though he does not appear on their payroll, his bio at Democracy Partners credits him with "working closely with the Democratic National Committee" during the 2012 election cycle. Black in the video says he helped organize violent protests in Chicago that led to Trump's cancellation of a rally there in March.
posted by Jalliah at 6:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
John Katko (R-N.Y.)The most recent polling I've seen for my reprehensible Congressional Representative shows him destroying his opponent. The ads linking him to Trump are somewhat deceptive. He was quoted in our local paper recently:
"Like many of my constituents, I am frustrated by this presidential campaign, which is why I have declined to endorse either candidate. They do not share my values."posted by xyzzy at 7:01 PM on October 24, 2016
Slate The Most Astute Analysis of American Politics in 2016? SNL’s “Black Jeopardy!” Sketch.
I'm too tired to do a pull quote-- but I know that several people on MetaFilter were discussing this sketch.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
I'm too tired to do a pull quote-- but I know that several people on MetaFilter were discussing this sketch.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
Swing state voter report! [Cincinnati edition]
Early voting's been open for several days now, and when I did some canvassing this weekend for Clinton, our lit packets had early voting schedules in them. The campaign is clearly emphasizing early voting as the main message right now.
I went down to the BOE this afternoon to early vote. Was surprised to see people canvassing outside (including one dude with a "Deplorable and proud of it" sign that blew into the street, but another guy, I think supporting either the children's services or public schools levy, grabbed it before it got too far which was a far nicer gesture than I would have done).
I waited in line for less than 10 minutes, and honestly was pretty surprised at how busy it was for mid-afternoon on a Monday. By appearances alone, I'm guessing there was a slight edge in Democratic voters showing up, but it was a fairly mixed group. There was plenty of room to accommodate everyone filling out the ballots, and the BOE staff were courteous and very professional. There was a very young-looking woman there with either her mother or another adult guardian, and I think she may have just cast her first ballot, which always warms the cockles of my heart.
I was mildly worried I'd miss the "voting on election day" vibe, but if anything it was more fun to do it this way! I ran into an acquaintance I hadn't seen for a while, felt like I had tons of time to quintuple-check my ballot to make sure I didn't accidentally vote for Trumppence, and now I don't have to think about it anymore.
If you live in an area with early voting, I definitely encourage you to go, especially if you live in Ohio. I know Michael McDonald is saying early voting is down in the state so I hope perhaps things turn around in the next few days.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Early voting's been open for several days now, and when I did some canvassing this weekend for Clinton, our lit packets had early voting schedules in them. The campaign is clearly emphasizing early voting as the main message right now.
I went down to the BOE this afternoon to early vote. Was surprised to see people canvassing outside (including one dude with a "Deplorable and proud of it" sign that blew into the street, but another guy, I think supporting either the children's services or public schools levy, grabbed it before it got too far which was a far nicer gesture than I would have done).
I waited in line for less than 10 minutes, and honestly was pretty surprised at how busy it was for mid-afternoon on a Monday. By appearances alone, I'm guessing there was a slight edge in Democratic voters showing up, but it was a fairly mixed group. There was plenty of room to accommodate everyone filling out the ballots, and the BOE staff were courteous and very professional. There was a very young-looking woman there with either her mother or another adult guardian, and I think she may have just cast her first ballot, which always warms the cockles of my heart.
I was mildly worried I'd miss the "voting on election day" vibe, but if anything it was more fun to do it this way! I ran into an acquaintance I hadn't seen for a while, felt like I had tons of time to quintuple-check my ballot to make sure I didn't accidentally vote for Trumppence, and now I don't have to think about it anymore.
If you live in an area with early voting, I definitely encourage you to go, especially if you live in Ohio. I know Michael McDonald is saying early voting is down in the state so I hope perhaps things turn around in the next few days.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:08 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Oh and also, you still get the stickers if you early vote! Plus Ohio has THE BEST "I Voted" stickers. No, seriously, we do.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by mostly vowels at 7:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
New Keepin' It 1600 is up. How did I ever live without this podcast.....
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Absent any actual, you know, evidence, or allegations or frankly even any kind of rumor or inkling at all that Trump coerced someone into having an abortion, I find the repeated speculation that he "seems like the type of guy" who would have done so to be frankly kinda gross and distasteful, not the kind of "they go low, we go high" behavior that we who claim to be on the side of good ought to aspire to.
Also, I don't see why "paying for an abortion" is so wrong; what, would it be better if he'd made the woman pay for it on top of everything else she would have had to deal with? Coercion is one thing, but paying for it seems neither here nor there.
And anyway, we've no reason to think he coerced anyone into an abortion other than the fact that we dislike him and think he's a vile misogynist, and gleefully speculating that he might turn out to have done so feels spiteful and ghoulish to me. Can we maybe agree to shelve that topic unless and until a specific reason to discuss it appears?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [30 favorites]
Also, I don't see why "paying for an abortion" is so wrong; what, would it be better if he'd made the woman pay for it on top of everything else she would have had to deal with? Coercion is one thing, but paying for it seems neither here nor there.
And anyway, we've no reason to think he coerced anyone into an abortion other than the fact that we dislike him and think he's a vile misogynist, and gleefully speculating that he might turn out to have done so feels spiteful and ghoulish to me. Can we maybe agree to shelve that topic unless and until a specific reason to discuss it appears?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [30 favorites]
CNN purports to be a respectable news agency, yet they blatantly hire Donald Trump's campaign manager while Donald Trump is running for president.
David Folkenflik: "According to two sources with direct knowledge, CNN will make approximately $100 million more than it would expect in the typical election year, and that's thanks to the huge interest in Donald Trump."
That is... a problem.
posted by holgate at 7:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [66 favorites]
David Folkenflik: "According to two sources with direct knowledge, CNN will make approximately $100 million more than it would expect in the typical election year, and that's thanks to the huge interest in Donald Trump."
That is... a problem.
posted by holgate at 7:17 PM on October 24, 2016 [66 favorites]
You're damn right it is, holgate. Trump-like candidates are now proven winners for cable news, and they have an incentive to reward and cultivate Trumpish behavior in the future. There's also already a revolving door system set up, where individuals move freely between the candidate's campaign staff and the news station's stable of tame pundits. That's unacceptable, frankly. Not sure what to do about it though.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:22 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:22 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
I voted!
After all the stamp decisions and things, I realized that I was going to drive home past the ballot drop off box (which is conveniently located at curbside / easy drop off from a car here in Portland), so I technically wasted a stamp, but I hope whoever opens it gets a kick out of it.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
After all the stamp decisions and things, I realized that I was going to drive home past the ballot drop off box (which is conveniently located at curbside / easy drop off from a car here in Portland), so I technically wasted a stamp, but I hope whoever opens it gets a kick out of it.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:24 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Republicans’ Last Hope: The Polls Are Wrong<>
Campaign damage critical! Raise the reality deflection shields! Man the unskewing turrets!
"Reverse the poll-arity!" surely
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 7:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
Campaign damage critical! Raise the reality deflection shields! Man the unskewing turrets!
"Reverse the poll-arity!" surely
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 7:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
> Not sure what to do about it though.
Shorten the election period, for one. None of this 18 months of campaigning. Limit press coverage to fixed amounts per candidate. And finance reform so they can't afford to run an 18 month campaign, 'requiring' essentially year round coverage.
At this rate, the midterm elections will start campaigning this upcoming February.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Shorten the election period, for one. None of this 18 months of campaigning. Limit press coverage to fixed amounts per candidate. And finance reform so they can't afford to run an 18 month campaign, 'requiring' essentially year round coverage.
At this rate, the midterm elections will start campaigning this upcoming February.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:27 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hey you know what I just realized? I'm almost 29 and I have never once voted for a white man for President.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [115 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [115 favorites]
I'm really curious to see how many of Trump's foreign and domestic business partners pull out of contracts in the weeks after the election. His foreign partners have mostly been very, very quiet this election, I assume because they don't want to be perceived as interfering in the US election in any way (both the national and corporate partners) and because, for the national partners, on the off-chance he wins they don't want their country penalized byhis administration (which he would clearly do!). I have to imagine a lot of countries with Trump properties start bailing like whoa and investigating improprieties on November 9.
For the domestic partnerships -- Nordstrom carrying Ivanka, f'ex -- I imagine they similarly want to stay out of the fray until AFTER the election, but they'll start quietly dropping those lines after the election -- failing to renew contracts, looking at a new lawsuit and saying they're out, etc. They probably want to find their exit points that give them excuses without alienating Republicans.
Anyway I hope someone makes a website tracking this, I'm very curious to see it go down.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
For the domestic partnerships -- Nordstrom carrying Ivanka, f'ex -- I imagine they similarly want to stay out of the fray until AFTER the election, but they'll start quietly dropping those lines after the election -- failing to renew contracts, looking at a new lawsuit and saying they're out, etc. They probably want to find their exit points that give them excuses without alienating Republicans.
Anyway I hope someone makes a website tracking this, I'm very curious to see it go down.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
Anyway I hope someone makes a website tracking this, I'm very curious to see it go down.
Hmm. That could be an interesting project.
posted by Jalliah at 7:33 PM on October 24, 2016
Hmm. That could be an interesting project.
posted by Jalliah at 7:33 PM on October 24, 2016
That alleged "fixer" for the Clintons (this guy, I think, also known for his work on Bat Boy and Mortal Kombat novelizations) is on Hannity right now claiming that the couple had a polyamorous open marriage, that HRC had affairs with men (including Vince Foster) and women, that Bill used the services of sex workers, etc. The story came out last week in the National Enquirer, but nobody apart from the Trumpsters seemed to pick up on it.
I think this is meant to "FINISH HER" (sorry!) but this is just so batshit ...
posted by maudlin at 7:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think this is meant to "FINISH HER" (sorry!) but this is just so batshit ...
posted by maudlin at 7:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Republicans’ Last Hope: The Polls Are Wrong
Hmm. Sounds familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
posted by rhizome at 7:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hmm. Sounds familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
posted by rhizome at 7:33 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Shannon Coulter is tracking companies that carry Trump products. No company has dropped them yet.
posted by Yowser at 7:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 7:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Now that is some quality fanfic. Listen up, Mefi Election Thread ficcers. Up your games! (Also those particular allegations register for me as 1. don't care, 2. go on and get it, girl, 3. don't really care, it's all consenual, bro.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:41 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Anyway I hope someone makes a website tracking this, I'm very curious to see it go down.
I just registered a domain in case I find time to do this. Surprised it wasn't taken yet. Trumptracker.com :D
posted by Jalliah at 7:46 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
I just registered a domain in case I find time to do this. Surprised it wasn't taken yet. Trumptracker.com :D
posted by Jalliah at 7:46 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
BAT BOY!
posted by Yowser at 7:46 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 7:46 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think the abortion speculation is flimsy, but it's built around the premise (drawn from #NeverTrump campaign operative chatter) that there are documents circulating but being held for oppo droppo that are self-explanatory and could destroy Trump with at least some of the remaining GOP base.
At the same time, all the references to John Casablancas and Jeffrey Epstein and the pending rape case (however iffy that might be) and the Stern comments (e.g.) and the dubious-visa-status Trump modelling agency and the pageant dressing rooms and the teen-Ivanka photos and the purported Guccione blackmail dossier feel like they're spiralling inwards towards something.
posted by holgate at 7:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
At the same time, all the references to John Casablancas and Jeffrey Epstein and the pending rape case (however iffy that might be) and the Stern comments (e.g.) and the dubious-visa-status Trump modelling agency and the pageant dressing rooms and the teen-Ivanka photos and the purported Guccione blackmail dossier feel like they're spiralling inwards towards something.
posted by holgate at 7:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Serious question: exactly how do we go about "holding her feet to the fire" once Clinton gets elected? What leverage does the public have over a sitting president, aside from threatening not to vote for them if it's their first term? How might we successfully go about influencing and/or persuading Hillary Clinton to adopt a less bellicose foreign policy philosophy, or to side with Native Americans and against fossil energy corporations? After she's elected, how can she be held accountable to the electorate that got her there? I'm genuinely asking for ideas here, because I have few of my own on this subject.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jumping in with an early voting report from Las Vegas- lots of people at the polls (on a Monday! In the rain! Rain in Las Vegas!). It was cathartic to finally cast that vote. I feel a weight has been lifted off of me, plus I got the coolest "I voted" sticker EVER!!
posted by pupperduck at 8:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by pupperduck at 8:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
In many ways, I dint think people will have to, Clinton had always worked very very hard and is persistent. I don't expect that to change.
Public pressure and midterm elections play a big role in some particular actions.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Public pressure and midterm elections play a big role in some particular actions.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm always really uncomfortable when people start talking about limiting how long people and in what specific ways people can campaign for office, and how they can be covered, and how that coverage would be covered as a federally mandated regulation. As a long-time holder of minority opinions, I am very lax to want to limit any political voices.
First of all, what is and isn't campaigning? Where do we draw the line between and official promoting their actions to their constituents and campaigning for election? Is there a hard date? How do we deal with political parties wanting to criticize an opposition party in power? When is it legitimate political speech and when is it campaigning against an incumbent?
Secondly, for all its failings, past and present, the media remains an important bulwark against misinformation and unchecked populism. Starting to limit how much and in what ways they can talk about political candidates leaves us all the more open to elections being limited to base popular appeals rather than candidates talking about the issues seriously, and for serious differences and problems to be ignored in favor of easily digestible tidbits. Politics needs all the time and all the words it can get its hands on to work properly, not less time and fewer words.
Frankly, and I'm sorry, but talking about limiting how much and in what ways the press can talk about political candidates is the sort of thing Trump would suggest. No matter how well intentioned, such systems would be incredibly susceptible to abuse by whoever holds the levers that enforce those laws. A lot about the current political media landscape is incredibly toxic and bad. None of that would be solved by shortening an election cycle or limiting how much news outlets can say about it. That kind of thing has to be cultural and cannot be enforced, or at least cannot be enforced without a pre-existing cultural acceptance of it.
As far as I'm concerned, the moment I hear inaugural oath, that person is running for re-election. It's how I want to keep my representatives honest. They need to be fighting for my future vote for themselves and their party every day they are in office.
posted by neonrev at 8:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
First of all, what is and isn't campaigning? Where do we draw the line between and official promoting their actions to their constituents and campaigning for election? Is there a hard date? How do we deal with political parties wanting to criticize an opposition party in power? When is it legitimate political speech and when is it campaigning against an incumbent?
Secondly, for all its failings, past and present, the media remains an important bulwark against misinformation and unchecked populism. Starting to limit how much and in what ways they can talk about political candidates leaves us all the more open to elections being limited to base popular appeals rather than candidates talking about the issues seriously, and for serious differences and problems to be ignored in favor of easily digestible tidbits. Politics needs all the time and all the words it can get its hands on to work properly, not less time and fewer words.
Frankly, and I'm sorry, but talking about limiting how much and in what ways the press can talk about political candidates is the sort of thing Trump would suggest. No matter how well intentioned, such systems would be incredibly susceptible to abuse by whoever holds the levers that enforce those laws. A lot about the current political media landscape is incredibly toxic and bad. None of that would be solved by shortening an election cycle or limiting how much news outlets can say about it. That kind of thing has to be cultural and cannot be enforced, or at least cannot be enforced without a pre-existing cultural acceptance of it.
As far as I'm concerned, the moment I hear inaugural oath, that person is running for re-election. It's how I want to keep my representatives honest. They need to be fighting for my future vote for themselves and their party every day they are in office.
posted by neonrev at 8:03 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Heh, I live in the state that is a case study on why term limits are the worst idea ever. Her in Missouri you can only serve in the State Senate or House for eight years each. So what happens is that you do one for eight years, then you do another for eight years then you work as a lobbyist and get to go lean on new state senators and representatives who A) know far less than you about how things work and B) know they'd better not piss off the powers that be since, in 16 years, they're going to need a job.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:09 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
mostly vowels: "Oh and also, you still get the stickers if you early vote! Plus Ohio has THE BEST "I Voted" stickers. No, seriously, we do."
Dammit, why don't we get stickers in PA? Or early voting for that matter?
posted by octothorpe at 8:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Dammit, why don't we get stickers in PA? Or early voting for that matter?
posted by octothorpe at 8:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Serious question: exactly how do we go about "holding her feet to the fire" once Clinton gets elected? What leverage does the public have over a sitting president, aside from threatening not to vote for them if it's their first term? How might we successfully go about influencing and/or persuading Hillary Clinton to adopt a less bellicose foreign policy philosophy, or to side with Native Americans and against fossil energy corporations? After she's elected, how can she be held accountable to the electorate that got her there? I'm genuinely asking for ideas here, because I have few of my own on this subject.
You're quoting me there I think, and I honestly don't really know beyond the re-elect pressure. I was using it as something of a rhetorical point to be honest. It bothers me too.
I'm hoping that the Warren/Sanders branch stays energized and proves to be a more lasting force than a lot of previous leftist movements have been, and I think it might. I'm hoping that the youth vote starts coming out in greater numbers during the midterm, and I think Sanders could help a lot with that. I'm hoping that Clinton is enough of a party loyalist her desire to sustain left-ish thinking people into one party leads her to more liberal positions to avoid any possible splintering of the Dems.
I guess I'm living the dream/nightmare that my older leftist friends have told me about, voting for the the democrat because maybe we can hold them accountable. I hope not. I hope me and my young and energetic leftist friends can keep up the fight. We're not getting any less in debt or having much better prospects without a major change, so I hope we can, but I dunno.
But I am still hopeful. The fuck use is being anything else?
posted by neonrev at 8:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
You're quoting me there I think, and I honestly don't really know beyond the re-elect pressure. I was using it as something of a rhetorical point to be honest. It bothers me too.
I'm hoping that the Warren/Sanders branch stays energized and proves to be a more lasting force than a lot of previous leftist movements have been, and I think it might. I'm hoping that the youth vote starts coming out in greater numbers during the midterm, and I think Sanders could help a lot with that. I'm hoping that Clinton is enough of a party loyalist her desire to sustain left-ish thinking people into one party leads her to more liberal positions to avoid any possible splintering of the Dems.
I guess I'm living the dream/nightmare that my older leftist friends have told me about, voting for the the democrat because maybe we can hold them accountable. I hope not. I hope me and my young and energetic leftist friends can keep up the fight. We're not getting any less in debt or having much better prospects without a major change, so I hope we can, but I dunno.
But I am still hopeful. The fuck use is being anything else?
posted by neonrev at 8:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dammit, why don't we get stickers in PA? Or early voting for that matter?
I'll bet you have early voting after this election. Every place that has it loves it.
posted by teirnon at 8:15 PM on October 24, 2016
I'll bet you have early voting after this election. Every place that has it loves it.
posted by teirnon at 8:15 PM on October 24, 2016
We have a Republican controlled house and senate here in PA, there's zero chance that they'll do anything to make it easier to vote here.
posted by octothorpe at 8:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 8:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm always really uncomfortable when people start talking about limiting how long people and in what specific ways people can campaign for office, and how they can be covered, and how that coverage would be covered as a federally mandated regulation. As a long-time holder of minority opinions, I am very lax to want to limit any political voices.
How much US policy has be put on hold during an election campaign? Lots, it seems. The situations in Syria and Yemen in particular.
The US already has a structural mess where difficult legislation can only get done in odd years, and perhaps only one really difficult bit of legislation in the year after a presidential election. The ACA was the 2009 example. Immigration reform might be the 2017 one, but as I've said here before, permanent election conditions make difficult legislation impossible.
Two-year terms for the House simply don't work in the 21st century. They're fucking stupid. Newly-elected House members are raising re-election money before they're even sworn in. They spend more time begging for change than on constituent service. That's fucking stupid.
Serious campaign finance reform might help here. Money is not speech. The early primaries can fuck off into the spring.
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
How much US policy has be put on hold during an election campaign? Lots, it seems. The situations in Syria and Yemen in particular.
The US already has a structural mess where difficult legislation can only get done in odd years, and perhaps only one really difficult bit of legislation in the year after a presidential election. The ACA was the 2009 example. Immigration reform might be the 2017 one, but as I've said here before, permanent election conditions make difficult legislation impossible.
Two-year terms for the House simply don't work in the 21st century. They're fucking stupid. Newly-elected House members are raising re-election money before they're even sworn in. They spend more time begging for change than on constituent service. That's fucking stupid.
Serious campaign finance reform might help here. Money is not speech. The early primaries can fuck off into the spring.
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
The US already has a structural mess where difficult legislation can only get done in odd years, and perhaps only one really difficult bit of legislation in the year after a presidential election. The ACA was the 2009 example. Immigration reform might be the 2017 one, but as I've said here before, permanent election conditions make difficult legislation impossible.
Two-year terms for the House simply don't work in the 21st century. They're fucking stupid. Newly-elected House members are raising re-election money before they're even sworn in. They spend more time begging for change than on constituent service. That's fucking stupid.
Serious campaign finance reform might help here. Money is not speech. The early primaries can fuck off into the spring.
This is all very true and a good reason to extend term periods and limit the influence of money on political speech. Little of it would be improved by federal limits on what is and isn't the 'campaign season.'. It's always campaign season. That's what a democracy is. What will you do for me and what have you done for me lately? Sucks, but, ya know?
posted by neonrev at 8:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Two-year terms for the House simply don't work in the 21st century. They're fucking stupid. Newly-elected House members are raising re-election money before they're even sworn in. They spend more time begging for change than on constituent service. That's fucking stupid.
Serious campaign finance reform might help here. Money is not speech. The early primaries can fuck off into the spring.
This is all very true and a good reason to extend term periods and limit the influence of money on political speech. Little of it would be improved by federal limits on what is and isn't the 'campaign season.'. It's always campaign season. That's what a democracy is. What will you do for me and what have you done for me lately? Sucks, but, ya know?
posted by neonrev at 8:25 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think this is relevant now : my local Berniecrat candidate Peter Jacob (NJ-7) is neck and neck with the republican incumbent, based on pure volunteer power. No name recognition before this, no ads, absolutely no advantage. Just lots of frustrated Berners. The Movement tm did not end with the primaries. I don't really know what mechanisms they have to continue it, but I have a lot of confidence in the people I've met.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:34 PM on October 24, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:34 PM on October 24, 2016 [30 favorites]
Little of it would be improved by federal limits on what is and isn't the 'campaign season.'. It's always campaign season. That's what a democracy is.
No, it isn't. You're wrong here. This is the blinkered side of American exceptionalism. In every other legitimate democracy there is campaign season and then there is governing season which goes on for a while to get shit done, and then there is campaign season where the electorate judges the people in charge and those in opposition on what they did during governing season.
Extending terms would require a constitutional amendment, so it's not going to happen. I wish it would.
How it changes for the presidential election is that the parties get carrot-and-sticked into changing the calendar for the sake of the nation. Just meet in a smoky room and offer the early-primary state parties a sufficient backhander to compensate for not having candidates gawp at Iowa butter sculptures or sit in NH diners.
posted by holgate at 8:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
No, it isn't. You're wrong here. This is the blinkered side of American exceptionalism. In every other legitimate democracy there is campaign season and then there is governing season which goes on for a while to get shit done, and then there is campaign season where the electorate judges the people in charge and those in opposition on what they did during governing season.
Extending terms would require a constitutional amendment, so it's not going to happen. I wish it would.
How it changes for the presidential election is that the parties get carrot-and-sticked into changing the calendar for the sake of the nation. Just meet in a smoky room and offer the early-primary state parties a sufficient backhander to compensate for not having candidates gawp at Iowa butter sculptures or sit in NH diners.
posted by holgate at 8:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
but mostly I'm just really excited about that poll
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Heh, I live in the state that is a case study on why term limits are the worst idea ever.
Quoted for truth. Term limits are always put forward as some kind of essential and populist type of reform, but what they do in practice is tip the balance of power hard towards lobbyists and away from elected representatives of any type. If you want to put more of the power in the hands of big corporations and less in the hands of the people, term limits are exactly the prescription.
In short, terms limits are not a good solution--and, as you point out, the Missouri experience proves it.
posted by flug at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [27 favorites]
Quoted for truth. Term limits are always put forward as some kind of essential and populist type of reform, but what they do in practice is tip the balance of power hard towards lobbyists and away from elected representatives of any type. If you want to put more of the power in the hands of big corporations and less in the hands of the people, term limits are exactly the prescription.
In short, terms limits are not a good solution--and, as you point out, the Missouri experience proves it.
posted by flug at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [27 favorites]
Top Hispanic Republican in Texas says he will vote for Clinton
"I want to make sure that I do everything I can to see that Trump doesn’t get elected," said Sosa, who has worked for Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. "I'm doing this because I don't think he's a good representative of the Republican Party. It's not the Republican Party I know."
Sosa announced in June that he was leaving the GOP over Trump, writing in a San Antonio Express-News op-ed that Trump's divisive candidacy left him with no choice. Two months later, Sosa joined the campaign of Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson, though Sosa said Monday that move did not amount to a strong enough rebuke of Trump.
posted by colt45 at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
"I want to make sure that I do everything I can to see that Trump doesn’t get elected," said Sosa, who has worked for Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. "I'm doing this because I don't think he's a good representative of the Republican Party. It's not the Republican Party I know."
Sosa announced in June that he was leaving the GOP over Trump, writing in a San Antonio Express-News op-ed that Trump's divisive candidacy left him with no choice. Two months later, Sosa joined the campaign of Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson, though Sosa said Monday that move did not amount to a strong enough rebuke of Trump.
posted by colt45 at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Or, to put it in American sportsball terms: the playoffs are great, but the regular season is necessary.
posted by holgate at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by holgate at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Farenthold, the journo who broke the Access Hollywood story, says on Twitter (when asked) that he has one last big trump story to break, and that he is currently tracking down the sources.
posted by codacorolla at 8:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 8:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [35 favorites]
Term limits (mis)treat the symptom and not the cause. The cause is that incumbents have a huge advantage, because most of them get the chance to pick their voters and all of them get to cultivate their donors. Curtailing institutional memory in elected positions absolutely hands over power to career lobbyists and lobbying orgs that preserve their institutional chops outside of electoral mandates.
Independent redistricting would do a lot more than term limits.
posted by holgate at 8:42 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Independent redistricting would do a lot more than term limits.
posted by holgate at 8:42 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
> Farenthold... has one last big trump story to break...
[Mortal Kombat] FINISH HIM! [/Mortal Kombat]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
[Mortal Kombat] FINISH HIM! [/Mortal Kombat]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
Two-year terms for the House simply don't work in the 21st century. They're fucking stupid. Newly-elected House members are raising re-election money before they're even sworn in. They spend more time begging for change than on constituent service. That's fucking stupid.
Serious campaign finance reform might help here.
100% would favorite again. Let's have actual public campaigns mostly financed by public money and small (grassroots) individual donations. You have to put a deposit down that you get back if you gain more than X% of the vote (to keep out grifters & nutball/stunt candidacies), and you get a reasonable amount of money to spend on a campaign plus a certain amount of subsidized time on public airwaves.
Campaign donations are strictly capped and only actual humans are allowed to contribute directly to candidates. Maybe they even get laundered through a publicly-administered entity so that individual lawmakers don't have any way of knowing if Donor X actually contributed what they said they would? I guess there's a place for PACs / interest groups but they have to disclose their donors, whose contributions are also capped.
And yes, kill term limits.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Serious campaign finance reform might help here.
100% would favorite again. Let's have actual public campaigns mostly financed by public money and small (grassroots) individual donations. You have to put a deposit down that you get back if you gain more than X% of the vote (to keep out grifters & nutball/stunt candidacies), and you get a reasonable amount of money to spend on a campaign plus a certain amount of subsidized time on public airwaves.
Campaign donations are strictly capped and only actual humans are allowed to contribute directly to candidates. Maybe they even get laundered through a publicly-administered entity so that individual lawmakers don't have any way of knowing if Donor X actually contributed what they said they would? I guess there's a place for PACs / interest groups but they have to disclose their donors, whose contributions are also capped.
And yes, kill term limits.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:50 PM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
OH GOD THE OBAMA MIC DROP
"Well, @realdonaldtrump, at least I will go down as a President."
posted by yhbc at 8:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [51 favorites]
"Well, @realdonaldtrump, at least I will go down as a President."
posted by yhbc at 8:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [51 favorites]
I think we should keep term limits, but make them longer. Like 10 for 2-year terms; that's 20 years in one position, that's enough to do some good, but not forever. And if someone is an intransigent stinker, they can be pushed out.
Think of it like the Doctor; only so many regenerations allowed.*
*yes we all know he's going to find a loophole around that rule, but the principle is the same.
posted by emjaybee at 8:59 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Think of it like the Doctor; only so many regenerations allowed.*
*yes we all know he's going to find a loophole around that rule, but the principle is the same.
posted by emjaybee at 8:59 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ramiro Garza
There were 23,458 people that voted early today in HidalgoCounty which represents an increase of 70% compared to 2012.
Hidalgo County is in the Lower Rio Grande Valley in Texas and is 90%+ Hispanic. I spent part of my childhood there and I promise that if they are getting that kind of turnout it is very, very good for HRC.
posted by colt45 at 9:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
There were 23,458 people that voted early today in HidalgoCounty which represents an increase of 70% compared to 2012.
Hidalgo County is in the Lower Rio Grande Valley in Texas and is 90%+ Hispanic. I spent part of my childhood there and I promise that if they are getting that kind of turnout it is very, very good for HRC.
posted by colt45 at 9:04 PM on October 24, 2016 [38 favorites]
My kid had a sobbing meltdown in class today when they assigned the groups for the mock classroom debate and he got assigned to Trump. He kept insisting Trump was a "bad guy" and he only wanted to be on Clinton's team. We got a note sent home.
But the part I'm kind-of struggling with is, he's in a class of 16 kids, of whom 15 are ESL speakers, all from Latin America. It's hard for me to think of what you can reasonably teach elementary students about Trump and his "policies" -- it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to think of how you can reasonably and responsibly teach that to a classroom full of recent immigrants from Mexico and Honduras. What is there to teach except that "this dude wants your families to leave," and how is that helping make the school a safe and nurturing learning envirornment?
(I will add, we have been really careful to speak positively about what we like about Clinton and to try to avoid mentioning Trump at all, because we don't want our kids getting in fights about it at school with other dumb kids whose parents may be very wrong but whose kids are not responsible for their parents' wrongness, and Trump's hatred is just too hard to explain to little kids, so we've stuck with "We think Mrs. Clinton works really hard and she has a lot of good ideas for families with little kids like ours." But Trump is unavoidably in the air and they've both heard he wants their friends' families to "go home" to Mexico and GOD this is hard to explain.)
I think the school will just let the whole note/debate situation pass but I am willing to be all "come at me, bro" if not because WTF do they want my kid and his immigrant classmates to learn about Trump? How to deport millions or how to grab women in the pussy? Which part is appropriate for children?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [135 favorites]
But the part I'm kind-of struggling with is, he's in a class of 16 kids, of whom 15 are ESL speakers, all from Latin America. It's hard for me to think of what you can reasonably teach elementary students about Trump and his "policies" -- it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to think of how you can reasonably and responsibly teach that to a classroom full of recent immigrants from Mexico and Honduras. What is there to teach except that "this dude wants your families to leave," and how is that helping make the school a safe and nurturing learning envirornment?
(I will add, we have been really careful to speak positively about what we like about Clinton and to try to avoid mentioning Trump at all, because we don't want our kids getting in fights about it at school with other dumb kids whose parents may be very wrong but whose kids are not responsible for their parents' wrongness, and Trump's hatred is just too hard to explain to little kids, so we've stuck with "We think Mrs. Clinton works really hard and she has a lot of good ideas for families with little kids like ours." But Trump is unavoidably in the air and they've both heard he wants their friends' families to "go home" to Mexico and GOD this is hard to explain.)
I think the school will just let the whole note/debate situation pass but I am willing to be all "come at me, bro" if not because WTF do they want my kid and his immigrant classmates to learn about Trump? How to deport millions or how to grab women in the pussy? Which part is appropriate for children?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [135 favorites]
In case you are not familiar with Texas geography, this is a county where Trump would actually be building a part of the wall and they are telling him "No."
posted by colt45 at 9:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by colt45 at 9:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [39 favorites]
That alleged "fixer" for the Clintons ... is on Hannity right now claiming that the couple had a polyamorous open marriage, that HRC had affairs with men (including Vince Foster) and women, that Bill used the services of sex workers, etc.
I keep thinking that the image that Trump is trying to paint of the Clintons is more-or-less the image that he tried to paint of himself for so many years. I get the feeling that after all this time, he still doesn't see a difference between what he's being accused of and consensual sex.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I keep thinking that the image that Trump is trying to paint of the Clintons is more-or-less the image that he tried to paint of himself for so many years. I get the feeling that after all this time, he still doesn't see a difference between what he's being accused of and consensual sex.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:18 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, it isn't. You're wrong here. This is the blinkered side of American exceptionalism. In every other legitimate democracy there is campaign season and then there is governing season which goes on for a while to get shit done, and then there is campaign season where the electorate judges the people in charge and those in opposition on what they did during governing season.
Well, while I don't believe you or agree based on my observations of other democracies (like at all, the UK is sitting right there and I'm pretty sure I've spent the last 3 solid years of my life constantly reading about the politics and intra-party fighting of a country I don't live in, but okay. Let me know when it's campaign season there I guess.), I'm willing to grant that. In other countries, sure, everyone turns into a true patriot and stands lockstep behind the party in power until the proscribed time that they are allowed to criticize the other party. This is how Australia works, for example.
What I'm saying is that in a democracy, there is no difference between the times that people are 'running' for office and when they are simply serving in office. You judge all their actions the same, all the time. If they are an incumbent, what matters is what they did while in office, and if they are not, then all you can care about is what they say really. The only way to manage what times people are 'running' for office (and I defy anyone to come up with a list of rules for what constitutes 'running' for office that isn't a first amendment violation from beginning to end.) is top down, federal management of the media and of what office holders and private citizens can say about the government, and while I'm real sad about the state of the media right now, I'd be even sadder if we started limiting how we are allowed to judge and evaluate our elected officials.
posted by neonrev at 9:19 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, while I don't believe you or agree based on my observations of other democracies (like at all, the UK is sitting right there and I'm pretty sure I've spent the last 3 solid years of my life constantly reading about the politics and intra-party fighting of a country I don't live in, but okay. Let me know when it's campaign season there I guess.), I'm willing to grant that. In other countries, sure, everyone turns into a true patriot and stands lockstep behind the party in power until the proscribed time that they are allowed to criticize the other party. This is how Australia works, for example.
What I'm saying is that in a democracy, there is no difference between the times that people are 'running' for office and when they are simply serving in office. You judge all their actions the same, all the time. If they are an incumbent, what matters is what they did while in office, and if they are not, then all you can care about is what they say really. The only way to manage what times people are 'running' for office (and I defy anyone to come up with a list of rules for what constitutes 'running' for office that isn't a first amendment violation from beginning to end.) is top down, federal management of the media and of what office holders and private citizens can say about the government, and while I'm real sad about the state of the media right now, I'd be even sadder if we started limiting how we are allowed to judge and evaluate our elected officials.
posted by neonrev at 9:19 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
EyebrowsMcGee: I'm so sorry.
I've seen stuff washing across Twitter from teachers who've either shown the debates or done mock debate every presidential year as part of a civics class, and felt unable to do it this year. So I can sympathise with schools that felt obliged not to make an exception, but I also feel like they ought to have sent a letter home in advance giving parents the opportunity to opt their children out. I'd say that if they make a Thing out of it, a polite one-line note saying "What does Trump have to do with teaching civics?" would suffice.
posted by holgate at 9:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've seen stuff washing across Twitter from teachers who've either shown the debates or done mock debate every presidential year as part of a civics class, and felt unable to do it this year. So I can sympathise with schools that felt obliged not to make an exception, but I also feel like they ought to have sent a letter home in advance giving parents the opportunity to opt their children out. I'd say that if they make a Thing out of it, a polite one-line note saying "What does Trump have to do with teaching civics?" would suffice.
posted by holgate at 9:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
How might we successfully go about influencing and/or persuading Hillary Clinton to adopt a less bellicose foreign policy philosophy, or to side with Native Americans and against fossil energy corporations?Look up lobbying organizations that represent your interests and ask them how you can help. For example, the National Congress of American Indians develops policy and lobbies Congress on behalf of that community.
posted by xyzzy at 9:23 PM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
My doctor has decided now is a good time to discontinue my anti anxiety meds until I have my annual. Which, because of his schedule means that if he doesn't refill them, ill be going cold turkey about election day, so I've decided to brave the chance of lines, and go do early voting tomorrow, just in case I'm too agoraphobic on the big day. Plus, I'm expecting open carry advocates out here, and I don't think I could face people with guns while I'm already panicking because of the concept of other people in proximity to me.
Y'all, I have had enough of this year, this campaign, this particular instance of the universe, just all of it. I'm so ready for it all to be done, and we can bask in the estrogenical tyranny of sensible pantsuits.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [62 favorites]
Y'all, I have had enough of this year, this campaign, this particular instance of the universe, just all of it. I'm so ready for it all to be done, and we can bask in the estrogenical tyranny of sensible pantsuits.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [62 favorites]
> Serious question: exactly how do we go about "holding her feet to the fire" once Clinton gets elected? What leverage does the public have over a sitting president, aside from threatening not to vote for them if it's their first term? How might we successfully go about influencing and/or persuading Hillary Clinton to adopt a less bellicose foreign policy philosophy, or to side with Native Americans and against fossil energy corporations? After she's elected, how can she be held accountable to the electorate that got her there? I'm genuinely asking for ideas here, because I have few of my own on this subject.
I don't know if the smallfolk have any real influence at all over foreign policy. With regard to foreign policy, I despair. This may indicate my own privilege; if I were Qanta Ahmed, I wouldn't have the luxury of despair.
Re: opposition to fossil fuel extraction: direct action. physically block projects, every project. make it expensive and annoying for the companies to build anything. And lawyer the bejeezus out of every single inch of every project.
Also, record and distribute footage of instances where state power is deployed in unpalatable ways against mediagenic protestors (for example, instances of police and nat. guard teargassing, shoving around, and pointing rifles and pistols at elders).
In general treat each new offensive by the fossil fuel companies as a new occasion to both produce widespread outrage and also drive down profitability; rile up good people by provoking disproportionate state violence, disincentivize extraction company executives by costing their companies money.
Meanwhile, win legislative support through Tea Party/entryist methods; look for a bunch of possibly squishy incumbents, then organize to primary enough of them to put a modicum of the fear of god into the caucus on the whole.
Give money, time, and supplies to people doing any of the above actions.
I mean okay it's not remotely as easy as all that. and in the specific case of the dakota access pipeline the water protectors out there on the front lines are displaying more courage than doofuses like me ever will, and are kinda getting put through hell for their troubles.
but, well, it's what we've got.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't know if the smallfolk have any real influence at all over foreign policy. With regard to foreign policy, I despair. This may indicate my own privilege; if I were Qanta Ahmed, I wouldn't have the luxury of despair.
Re: opposition to fossil fuel extraction: direct action. physically block projects, every project. make it expensive and annoying for the companies to build anything. And lawyer the bejeezus out of every single inch of every project.
Also, record and distribute footage of instances where state power is deployed in unpalatable ways against mediagenic protestors (for example, instances of police and nat. guard teargassing, shoving around, and pointing rifles and pistols at elders).
In general treat each new offensive by the fossil fuel companies as a new occasion to both produce widespread outrage and also drive down profitability; rile up good people by provoking disproportionate state violence, disincentivize extraction company executives by costing their companies money.
Meanwhile, win legislative support through Tea Party/entryist methods; look for a bunch of possibly squishy incumbents, then organize to primary enough of them to put a modicum of the fear of god into the caucus on the whole.
Give money, time, and supplies to people doing any of the above actions.
I mean okay it's not remotely as easy as all that. and in the specific case of the dakota access pipeline the water protectors out there on the front lines are displaying more courage than doofuses like me ever will, and are kinda getting put through hell for their troubles.
but, well, it's what we've got.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
i mean Trump is still getting a not-zero percentage of the vote, I think schoolteachers saying 'debates are impossible this year' could maybe cause some upset?
posted by beerperson at 9:28 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by beerperson at 9:28 PM on October 24, 2016
In other countries, sure, everyone turns into a true patriot and stands lockstep behind the party in power until the proscribed time that they are allowed to criticize the other party. This is how Australia works, for example.
Umm wtf? Do you have any idea how Australia actually works? Where are you getting this bullshit from?
posted by russm at 9:28 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
FWIW, I am pretty sure the comment about how Australia works to be sarcasm but given how these threads go is maybe a bad idea.
posted by R343L at 9:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by R343L at 9:30 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I'm saying is that in a democracy, there is no difference between the times that people are 'running' for office and when they are simply serving in office. You judge all their actions the same, all the time.
And what I'm saying is "no, just no, who is this 'you' you're talking about, because it doesn't work like that." You can't globally extrapolate that sensibility from the modern implementation of the archaic and deprecated American version of the democratic state.
Justin Trudeau's been Canadian PM for a year. The Canadian parties are not 'running' for office right now, they are either in government and trying to govern according to their manifesto and mandate, or opposing by trying to scrutinise and criticise and trim policies at the edges, given their much more limited capability to block the powers of a governing party. The reckoning will come in a few years' time.
After a year in office for Obama in 2010, the GOP was moving into high gear its "let's block everything, make government dysfunctional, and blame the Democrats for it" midterm campaign strategy. That's not going to happen next year in Canada.
posted by holgate at 9:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
And what I'm saying is "no, just no, who is this 'you' you're talking about, because it doesn't work like that." You can't globally extrapolate that sensibility from the modern implementation of the archaic and deprecated American version of the democratic state.
Justin Trudeau's been Canadian PM for a year. The Canadian parties are not 'running' for office right now, they are either in government and trying to govern according to their manifesto and mandate, or opposing by trying to scrutinise and criticise and trim policies at the edges, given their much more limited capability to block the powers of a governing party. The reckoning will come in a few years' time.
After a year in office for Obama in 2010, the GOP was moving into high gear its "let's block everything, make government dysfunctional, and blame the Democrats for it" midterm campaign strategy. That's not going to happen next year in Canada.
posted by holgate at 9:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [18 favorites]
After a year in office for Obama in 2010, the GOP was moving into high gear its 'let's block everything, make government dysfunctional, and blame the Democrats for it' midterm campaign strategy.
They started that on inauguration day.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:40 PM on October 24, 2016 [35 favorites]
> Justin Trudeau's been Canadian PM for a year. The Canadian parties are not 'running' for office right now, they are either in government and trying to govern according to their manifesto and mandate, or opposing by trying to scrutinise and criticise and trim policies at the edges, given their much more limited capability to block the powers of a governing party. The reckoning will come in a few years' time.
After a year in office for Obama in 2010, the GOP was moving into high gear its "let's block everything, make government dysfunctional, and blame the Democrats for it" midterm campaign strategy. That's not going to happen next year in Canada.
This is solely because the Westminster system concentrates power in the hands of the leader of the majority party, if there is a majority party. Because power is concentrated, the prime minister gets to just govern.
The American Constitution, by separating executive power from legislative power and holding separate elections for the two types of office, sort of naturally tends toward governance through grinding continual campaigns, because there's rarely one person or organization that has a legitimate sole claim to popular/electoral support.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
After a year in office for Obama in 2010, the GOP was moving into high gear its "let's block everything, make government dysfunctional, and blame the Democrats for it" midterm campaign strategy. That's not going to happen next year in Canada.
This is solely because the Westminster system concentrates power in the hands of the leader of the majority party, if there is a majority party. Because power is concentrated, the prime minister gets to just govern.
The American Constitution, by separating executive power from legislative power and holding separate elections for the two types of office, sort of naturally tends toward governance through grinding continual campaigns, because there's rarely one person or organization that has a legitimate sole claim to popular/electoral support.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
tl;dr version: nobody is campaigning for anything on a federal level in Canada right now, other than for by-elections and party leadership, and that has nothing to do with the legally-stipulated length of the campaign or campaign finance restrictions. Nobody is being judged by the (hypothetical, rhetorical) standards of campaign season because the next election will probably be in 2019 and there's shit to be done.
posted by holgate at 9:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by holgate at 9:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
like, this isn't a story about the different political cultures of the two countries; this is a story about how their institutions of governance are dramatically different in design.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:45 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
FYI POTUS will be on Kimmel Live shortly in case you own a TV to understand that sort of thing.
Just watched it live and have to say that even I, who has been under Obama's charm spell since before he was my senator, was surprised how likeable he was. He's so charming he made Jimmy Kimmel seem like a good interviewer.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Just watched it live and have to say that even I, who has been under Obama's charm spell since before he was my senator, was surprised how likeable he was. He's so charming he made Jimmy Kimmel seem like a good interviewer.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:47 PM on October 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
The American Constitution, by separating executive power from legislative power and holding separate elections for the two types of office, sort of naturally tends toward governance through grinding continual campaigns, because there's rarely one person or organization that has a legitimate sole claim to popular/electoral support.
Yeah, I do live in the US and my speciality is 18th century stuff so I know all that and still think it's stupid. But I'm not the one saying "this is what democracy looks like, deal with it" (because the US model is so obviously anomalous) and I'm also mindful that the endless campaign is mostly a product of 24/7 news coverage.
The US has a chamber specifically designed to be above the fray of day-to-day politics, and it is currently sitting on its arse instead of giving a Supreme Court nominee a hearing. So, how's that separation of powers stuff working out for you in 2016? Are you drinking tea from a saucer?
posted by holgate at 9:52 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I do live in the US and my speciality is 18th century stuff so I know all that and still think it's stupid. But I'm not the one saying "this is what democracy looks like, deal with it" (because the US model is so obviously anomalous) and I'm also mindful that the endless campaign is mostly a product of 24/7 news coverage.
The US has a chamber specifically designed to be above the fray of day-to-day politics, and it is currently sitting on its arse instead of giving a Supreme Court nominee a hearing. So, how's that separation of powers stuff working out for you in 2016? Are you drinking tea from a saucer?
posted by holgate at 9:52 PM on October 24, 2016 [11 favorites]
After a year in office for Obama in 2010, the GOP was moving into high gear its "let's block everything, make government dysfunctional, and blame the Democrats for it" midterm campaign strategy. That's not going to happen next year in Canada.
That's not going to happen in any country that has a mechanism for snap elections.
In the US, the electoral calendar itself is in the Constitution.
In Canada, the next election could happen next week. So legislators are on notice that if they act like they're campaigning, rather than governing, they could be made to campaign for real.
In the US, meanwhile, literally the day after the general election, politicians are planning for the next one. It's a permanent, neverending campaign.
We need early elections.
posted by ocschwar at 9:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why are you guys talking about Canada? Am I gonna have to drop more Tom Cochrane up in here?
HILLARY'S OFFICIAL THEME SONG [fake, but she could do a lot worse]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
HILLARY'S OFFICIAL THEME SONG [fake, but she could do a lot worse]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
We have a Republican controlled house and senate here in PA, there's zero chance that they'll do anything to make it easier to vote here.
We have that and a Republican governor as well in TN, but, while they pursue the full tea party agenda, early voting is entrenched. I guess it depends on how secure they feel.
posted by teirnon at 10:00 PM on October 24, 2016
They started that on inauguration day.
Yeah, that's sort of my point. It took all of 2009 to get the stimulus done and then the ACA through Congress, with maximum acrimony and horse-trading and guns at town hall meetings, and by March 2010 when the ACA was finally signed into law, the legislative capacity of the Dem majorities was exhausted, and the GOP could say "government isn't working, vote for us" without mentioning that they caused most of that shit.
This is like trying to explain to people brought up in dysfunctional and abusive families that while I'm really sorry you had to deal with that shit, other families have parents who get along for most of the time.
posted by holgate at 10:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yeah, that's sort of my point. It took all of 2009 to get the stimulus done and then the ACA through Congress, with maximum acrimony and horse-trading and guns at town hall meetings, and by March 2010 when the ACA was finally signed into law, the legislative capacity of the Dem majorities was exhausted, and the GOP could say "government isn't working, vote for us" without mentioning that they caused most of that shit.
This is like trying to explain to people brought up in dysfunctional and abusive families that while I'm really sorry you had to deal with that shit, other families have parents who get along for most of the time.
posted by holgate at 10:00 PM on October 24, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's like Tom Cochrane anticipated this election 30 years ago!
posted by morspin at 10:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by morspin at 10:02 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
".@seanhannity says to @KellyannePolls that if election is thrown to House of Representatives, @SpeakerRyan would pick Clinton over Trump" --@SopanDeb
They're cracking up.
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
They're cracking up.
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 PM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
Next thing you're going to be telling me that Tom Cochrane knew that if you knocked Hillary down, she'd get back up and get back in the race again .
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:12 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
This ad for a Republican down-ballot race in Texas is everything.
posted by moody cow at 10:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by moody cow at 10:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
In Canada, the next election could happen next week. So legislators are on notice that if they act like they're campaigning, rather than governing, they could be made to campaign for real.
It doesn't quite work like that, depending on the majority, but I think you raise a good point about not looking to campaign when you should either be governing or opposing.
France has near-conterminous fixed-term presidential and (a recent change, to end cohabitation) legislative elections and while there's been a phony war ahead of the spring 2017 campaigns, it's still going to be "governing season" until late November and the centre-right primary.
There is such a narrow space to govern in the US right now, even in the American way where messy compromises get thrashed out between sides asserting an equal claim to power. There is, however, an incentive for not governing that dates back to the Bill Clinton presidency, was shaped by Whitewater and by Bob Dole in the Senate, and was cemented by the arrival of Fox News. That's where the permanent campaign began: I doubt that Hillary Clinton has the power to change that, but it would be fitting if she could do so.
posted by holgate at 10:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
It doesn't quite work like that, depending on the majority, but I think you raise a good point about not looking to campaign when you should either be governing or opposing.
France has near-conterminous fixed-term presidential and (a recent change, to end cohabitation) legislative elections and while there's been a phony war ahead of the spring 2017 campaigns, it's still going to be "governing season" until late November and the centre-right primary.
There is such a narrow space to govern in the US right now, even in the American way where messy compromises get thrashed out between sides asserting an equal claim to power. There is, however, an incentive for not governing that dates back to the Bill Clinton presidency, was shaped by Whitewater and by Bob Dole in the Senate, and was cemented by the arrival of Fox News. That's where the permanent campaign began: I doubt that Hillary Clinton has the power to change that, but it would be fitting if she could do so.
posted by holgate at 10:26 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I never quite understood the arguments for term limits. We have built-in term limits... each politician is elected for one term. After that, they have to get elected again. I've always disliked the idea of laws that say "I'm too stupid to stop voting for an idiot, so please make a law that doesn't let me do so." (Of course, such law proposals are always phrased as, "we gotta stop those other people from re-voting for That Bastard," and not "I want fewer rights to elect the person I think is most qualified.")
I understand that there's an incumbent advantage - both in the sense of connections and knowing how a race is run (and won), and because many people, faced with an unfamiliar pair of names, will decide, "meh, if I haven't heard anything awful, the one who's currently there must be doing okay." However, it looks like term limits have mostly shifted the focus on incumbents from "so... what good are you doing that I should re-elect you?" to "eh, let 'em have a second term and see what they can get done," which (1) allows incompetents to stay in if they just manage to argue "but-but-but I'll do so much better the next time around, now that I know how all this works," and (2) throws the truly amazing and very competent out of office just as they've learned the ropes and are settling in to work on some of the most complex and broad-scope problems.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
I understand that there's an incumbent advantage - both in the sense of connections and knowing how a race is run (and won), and because many people, faced with an unfamiliar pair of names, will decide, "meh, if I haven't heard anything awful, the one who's currently there must be doing okay." However, it looks like term limits have mostly shifted the focus on incumbents from "so... what good are you doing that I should re-elect you?" to "eh, let 'em have a second term and see what they can get done," which (1) allows incompetents to stay in if they just manage to argue "but-but-but I'll do so much better the next time around, now that I know how all this works," and (2) throws the truly amazing and very competent out of office just as they've learned the ropes and are settling in to work on some of the most complex and broad-scope problems.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:32 PM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
So since we're talking about this kind of thing... did I pick up correctly from Rachel Maddow tonight that Obama's big project once getting out of office is going to be trying to ensure that gerrymandering favors Democrats, rather than simply trying to get rid of gerrymandering?
posted by XMLicious at 10:36 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by XMLicious at 10:36 PM on October 24, 2016
Getting rid of gerrymandering favors democrats, so...
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:38 PM on October 24, 2016 [17 favorites]
Atrios once talked about getting to see the daily schedule of first-term House members -- it's late, so trust me -- and the DC side was about a 50/50 split between Congressional stuff and fundraising, with long evenings of forced schmoozing in DC and long weekends in the district spending as much time as they could pressing flesh with some of their 700,000 constituents. No seniority, so limited capacity to influence legislation or even get pork: vote like we tell you to and win your next election and we'll talk about it.
Those congresscritters hated it. I'm sure that extends both sides of the aisle, apart from a few locked-up districts, because they all had a specific dollar amount for the next election looming over them from day one and getting it banked was impressed upon them as priority number one.
Term limits are stupid; the two-year House cycle is awful. Even for Steve "Racist" King and Louis "Idiot" Gohmert. You can't make an impact in two years even if you could devote all of that time to the job you were sent to do.
(John Dingell was a House member for almost 60 years and is witty and smart and pointed on Twitter in retirement, at 90 years old.)
posted by holgate at 11:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Those congresscritters hated it. I'm sure that extends both sides of the aisle, apart from a few locked-up districts, because they all had a specific dollar amount for the next election looming over them from day one and getting it banked was impressed upon them as priority number one.
Term limits are stupid; the two-year House cycle is awful. Even for Steve "Racist" King and Louis "Idiot" Gohmert. You can't make an impact in two years even if you could devote all of that time to the job you were sent to do.
(John Dingell was a House member for almost 60 years and is witty and smart and pointed on Twitter in retirement, at 90 years old.)
posted by holgate at 11:11 PM on October 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Getting rid of gerrymandering favors democrats, so...
So funny thing that it's been around as long as the Democratic Party itself.
Here's a Politico article about this post-WH project, which does not to me sound like they're trying to advance any changes that would eliminate the possibility of gerrymandering:
“We’re developing a comprehensive, unified plan that represents tactically the way we increase Democratic power in the next redistricting that’s state specific,” said Mark Schauer, a former Michigan congressman and failed 2014 candidate for governor who’s serving as a senior adviser to the group.Of course, if you simply apportioned the seats in a state legislature between the parties as selected by voters, then for example a third party with consistent 10% or 15% or 25% support across the state would obtain representation for their supporters, and I'm guessing that would not be a desirable outcome. Nor would the elimination of the spoiler effect as happens in those circumstances, I'd think.
posted by XMLicious at 11:20 PM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think the point is to do something about the situation that has persevered in the House for the past few cycles where Dems get 55-60% of the votes in a given state but win 40% of the seats. Gerrymandered districts would bother me much less if the election results more closely approximated the vote totals.
However, mathematically drawn compact districts would be best, with the independent redistricting commission being a distant second choice for me. The advantage to the latter is mainly in being able to do something about minority representation, which has very much fallen by the wayside in most states in recent years. I am sympathetic to the goal, but I fear the shenanigans it makes possible relative to a hard and fast rule for the drawing of districts.
Having lived in Arkansas before its most recent redistricting, I am also somewhat sympathetic to the idea of trying to pack voters of similar constituencies into their own districts, but saw first hand how that can also be used as an excuse for gerrymandering along party lines. Until 2000, Republicans had one solid district in the state, while the Democrats were all but assured a win in the rest, but the lines were also drawn in a way that also happened to make sense in terms of cultural differences between the regions of the state. It kinda sucked being the liberal island in a sea of conservatism in that one Republican district, but it still made sense as a whole.
Point being that even relatively sensible and not-obviously-gerrymandered districts can easily be to the benefit of one party or the other, while drawing them by algorithm can't be gamed like that. If one party happens to benefit in one instance, it should generally be balanced out in other places, making for more competitive districts overall. That should, theoretically, help a great deal in moderating elected officials. You can be a total nutjob if you know there is essentially no chance of losing outside of a wave election, but can't so much if you actually need to appeal to at least some of the squishy middle to win.
While that could lead to some Democratic candidates moving a bit rightward in the very short term, on the whole society is becoming more liberal by the year, so it will work out in the long run. Plus the random variation in individual districts should lead to an approximately similar leftward shift in other districts. While I want more leftist governance than we presently get, I'm OK with a temporary moderation if it will give us a less dysfunctional government with less radicalization in the legislature. Shit is totally broke now, and if I have to give up a little for the next 8 years to fix it, that's OK with me. I'm willing to put my country ahead of myself for a bit. Would be nice if the folks loudly proclaiming their patriotism were capable of understanding that is precisely what makes someone a patriot and not their odd feeling that flags, guns, and 'MURICA, FUK YAH! are all there is to it.
posted by wierdo at 11:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
However, mathematically drawn compact districts would be best, with the independent redistricting commission being a distant second choice for me. The advantage to the latter is mainly in being able to do something about minority representation, which has very much fallen by the wayside in most states in recent years. I am sympathetic to the goal, but I fear the shenanigans it makes possible relative to a hard and fast rule for the drawing of districts.
Having lived in Arkansas before its most recent redistricting, I am also somewhat sympathetic to the idea of trying to pack voters of similar constituencies into their own districts, but saw first hand how that can also be used as an excuse for gerrymandering along party lines. Until 2000, Republicans had one solid district in the state, while the Democrats were all but assured a win in the rest, but the lines were also drawn in a way that also happened to make sense in terms of cultural differences between the regions of the state. It kinda sucked being the liberal island in a sea of conservatism in that one Republican district, but it still made sense as a whole.
Point being that even relatively sensible and not-obviously-gerrymandered districts can easily be to the benefit of one party or the other, while drawing them by algorithm can't be gamed like that. If one party happens to benefit in one instance, it should generally be balanced out in other places, making for more competitive districts overall. That should, theoretically, help a great deal in moderating elected officials. You can be a total nutjob if you know there is essentially no chance of losing outside of a wave election, but can't so much if you actually need to appeal to at least some of the squishy middle to win.
While that could lead to some Democratic candidates moving a bit rightward in the very short term, on the whole society is becoming more liberal by the year, so it will work out in the long run. Plus the random variation in individual districts should lead to an approximately similar leftward shift in other districts. While I want more leftist governance than we presently get, I'm OK with a temporary moderation if it will give us a less dysfunctional government with less radicalization in the legislature. Shit is totally broke now, and if I have to give up a little for the next 8 years to fix it, that's OK with me. I'm willing to put my country ahead of myself for a bit. Would be nice if the folks loudly proclaiming their patriotism were capable of understanding that is precisely what makes someone a patriot and not their odd feeling that flags, guns, and 'MURICA, FUK YAH! are all there is to it.
posted by wierdo at 11:53 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
re: Donald Duck
Haven't watched the video. If Clinton did really approve it or say she wanted it then it could be squidgy with the rules governing campaign and PAC relationships.
This made me think of British general election campaigns. For one thing, having someone follow your opponent around in a costume isn't all that unusual. But secondly it reminds me of billboard and poster campaigns. Billboards are apparently the least effective form of advertising around. You go past them every day and see them but don't see them, and yet they've been a centre piece of British general election campaigns well into the modern era.
The thing is you can't advertise on TV. You have a limited amount of money that you can spend, legally and financially. So you make a billboard campaign that is controversial in some way. The billboard and the message on it is now a news story. Maybe people see the billboards. More likely they see a news story about the billboards. So now they're seeing the billboards in a five to ten minute informercial about your billboards on the news.
One of the more famous examples.
Anyway, well done Donald for not bringing it to anyone's attention or plastering it all over Twitter. Remarkable restraint.
posted by vbfg at 11:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Haven't watched the video. If Clinton did really approve it or say she wanted it then it could be squidgy with the rules governing campaign and PAC relationships.
This made me think of British general election campaigns. For one thing, having someone follow your opponent around in a costume isn't all that unusual. But secondly it reminds me of billboard and poster campaigns. Billboards are apparently the least effective form of advertising around. You go past them every day and see them but don't see them, and yet they've been a centre piece of British general election campaigns well into the modern era.
The thing is you can't advertise on TV. You have a limited amount of money that you can spend, legally and financially. So you make a billboard campaign that is controversial in some way. The billboard and the message on it is now a news story. Maybe people see the billboards. More likely they see a news story about the billboards. So now they're seeing the billboards in a five to ten minute informercial about your billboards on the news.
One of the more famous examples.
Anyway, well done Donald for not bringing it to anyone's attention or plastering it all over Twitter. Remarkable restraint.
posted by vbfg at 11:57 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Let's check in on American democracy's most damaging experiment: proving that cutting taxes really and truly does reduce revenue, no matter how many times politicians insist economic growth will magically solve all their problems. How's that going, Kansas?
Kansas Ends Bad Economic News by Not Reporting It:
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [80 favorites]
Kansas Ends Bad Economic News by Not Reporting It:
Brownback, despite promising to measure the results of a “real life experiment” in cutting taxes, has decided to cancel a quarterly report on the status of the state’s economy.Sure, Brownback's plan bears a stunning resemblance to the Trump tax plan, but it's not like we're stupid enough to keep trying the same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result, right?
Although Brownback’s spokeswoman said “a lot of people were confused by the report,” no one has been fooled. The problem was that the reports didn’t match the governor’s predictions for the state’s soon-to-be-booming economy. Local news media, including the Topeka Capital-Journal and the Kansas City Star, flagged the abandonment of the reports as evidence not only of policy failure, but as an attempt to hide that fact from the public.
...
The results, however, haven’t been very encouraging. Indeed, since the tax cuts were passed, almost nothing has gone as promised in Kansas. Revenue plunged and the state resorted to pulling money out of its rainy-day fund to plug the holes. A number of critical services, including for road maintenance and schools, were cut. The business climate has been poor, and the economy has lagged behind neighboring states as well as the rest of the country.
Why hasn’t this worked out? As we have discussed before, the failure of the Kansas tax cuts to do what was promised is a simple combination of state budget math and human psychology.
The math is simple: Tax cuts tend to reduce revenue, in Kansas’ case much more than expected. To change people’s behavior requires more substantial incentives than changing things by a few percentage points. The reduced revenue led to spending cuts that lowered quality of life. In response, rising numbers of people and companies have left the state.
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [80 favorites]
Samantha Bee:
Debate 3: The Good, The Bad, The Nasty (Act 1, Part 1)
Debate 3: The Good, The Bad, The Nasty (Act 1, Part 2)
OK Ladies Now Let's Get Information
First: Do No Harm. Second: Do No Pussy Stuff (Catholic hospitals and reproductive care)
Nasty Women, Assemble! (Buy her nasty woman t-shirt, all proceeds go to Planned Parenthood Advocacy Project Los Angeles County)
Web Extra: United Nations Tour
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on October 25, 2016 [28 favorites]
Debate 3: The Good, The Bad, The Nasty (Act 1, Part 1)
Debate 3: The Good, The Bad, The Nasty (Act 1, Part 2)
OK Ladies Now Let's Get Information
First: Do No Harm. Second: Do No Pussy Stuff (Catholic hospitals and reproductive care)
Nasty Women, Assemble! (Buy her nasty woman t-shirt, all proceeds go to Planned Parenthood Advocacy Project Los Angeles County)
Web Extra: United Nations Tour
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 AM on October 25, 2016 [28 favorites]
mrzarquon: It's a lot harder to get someone to go out and spite vote someone than it is to get someone to vote excitedly for a candidate. Hate is good for short term polls, but is hard to sustain.
So, apparently, love does in fact trump hate.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:12 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
So, apparently, love does in fact trump hate.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:12 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
For any California voters out there wondering about the All Important Justinian Endorsement List for Statewide Propositions. Here is how I currently intend to vote, unless some corporations throw some sweet swag my way.
Prop 51: No
Prop 52: Yes
Prop 53: No
Prop 54 Very, very soft no. Could change. Lobby me, lobbyists!
Prop 55 No (I expect this would be the most controversial no, why I suggest no would take more space than can fit in this margin.)
Prop 56 Yes
Prop 57 Yes
Prop 58 Yes
Prop 59 No
Prop 60 No
Prop 61 No
Prop 62 Yes
Prop 63 Yes
Prop 64 Yes and pass the bong, man.
Prop 65 No
Prop 66 No
Prop 67 Yes
Sorry if this is meaningless to you non-California voters. Think about how we feel having to deal with this shit. And note these are only the statewide measures, not the county and local ones. Thankfully there are only 3 of those for me this year.
posted by Justinian at 1:45 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Prop 51: No
Prop 52: Yes
Prop 53: No
Prop 54 Very, very soft no. Could change. Lobby me, lobbyists!
Prop 55 No (I expect this would be the most controversial no, why I suggest no would take more space than can fit in this margin.)
Prop 56 Yes
Prop 57 Yes
Prop 58 Yes
Prop 59 No
Prop 60 No
Prop 61 No
Prop 62 Yes
Prop 63 Yes
Prop 64 Yes and pass the bong, man.
Prop 65 No
Prop 66 No
Prop 67 Yes
Sorry if this is meaningless to you non-California voters. Think about how we feel having to deal with this shit. And note these are only the statewide measures, not the county and local ones. Thankfully there are only 3 of those for me this year.
posted by Justinian at 1:45 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Short answer on 55: Everybody wants rich people to pay more. This proposition does nothing to make a structural change to our tax code and all it does is delay the issue for 12 years. Coincidentally, term limits for members of the state assembly and senate is... 12 years. Actually that's not a coincidence, it's these idiots kicking the can down the road exactly long enough that they aren't the ones who have to deal with it.
They should grow some backbone and deal with it now instead of forcing it upon their successors.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
They should grow some backbone and deal with it now instead of forcing it upon their successors.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
WAPO: Want to save the Republican Party? Drain the right-wing media swamp.
If Republicans truly want to save the Republican Party, they need to go to war with right-wing media. That is, they need to dismantle the media machine persuading their base to believe completely bonkers, bigoted garbage.posted by xyzzy at 1:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
It is, after all, the right-wing radio, TV and Internet fever swamps that have gotten them into this mess, that have led to massive misinformation, disinformation and cynicism among Republican voters. And draining those fever swamps is the only way to get them out of it.
Hey you know what I just realized? I'm almost 29 and I have never once voted for a white man for President.
Same here!
Wait, are you me?
posted by clorox at 1:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Same here!
Wait, are you me?
posted by clorox at 1:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Exclusive investigation: Donald Trump faces foreign donor fundraising scandal
posted by rabbitrabbit at 3:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 3:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter: Yes and pass the bong, man
Sorry, had to
posted by pxe2000 at 3:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sorry, had to
posted by pxe2000 at 3:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Exclusive investigation: Donald Trump faces foreign donor fundraising scandal
But of course. Trump's Mirror at work again. If only his other products performed so reliably!
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
But of course. Trump's Mirror at work again. If only his other products performed so reliably!
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there any need to "save" the Republican party, xyzzy? Republicans can occasionally win the Presidency and Senate by chance, not with Trump, but still. It's the Democrats who seemingly cannot field strong enough talent to win the House, all while supposedly benefiting from demographic destiny.
Yes, we've all heard the Democrats blame gerrymandering, but gerrymandering was rampant throughout U.S. history. I think the Democrats real problem is (1) the Koch brothers' sponsors a broad array of upcoming right-wing political talent, while (2) right-wing Democrats like Pelosi, Wasserman Schultz, the Clintons, etc. repress much upcoming left-wing political talent. It might be a disadvantage to field more candidates in the presidential race, but it's a distinct advantage in local races and in House races.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, we've all heard the Democrats blame gerrymandering, but gerrymandering was rampant throughout U.S. history. I think the Democrats real problem is (1) the Koch brothers' sponsors a broad array of upcoming right-wing political talent, while (2) right-wing Democrats like Pelosi, Wasserman Schultz, the Clintons, etc. repress much upcoming left-wing political talent. It might be a disadvantage to field more candidates in the presidential race, but it's a distinct advantage in local races and in House races.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
If Nancy Pelosi is right-wing, you are holding your chart upside-down.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [44 favorites]
Hey you know what I just realized? I'm almost 29 and I have never once voted for a white man for President.
Barring unexpected tragedy, in 2024 there will be registered voters who were not alive for the last general presidential election where the major-party candidates were both white men.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Barring unexpected tragedy, in 2024 there will be registered voters who were not alive for the last general presidential election where the major-party candidates were both white men.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
right-wing Democrats like Pelosi, Wasserman Schultz, the Clintons
The Clintons at the very least are not right wing democrats - they just pass for them because it makes it easier to get things done. If you're looking at Bill Clinton, remember that his main primary opponent in 1992 was proposing a flat tax, had a tax policy designed by Arthur Laffer, and wanted to abolish the Department of Education.
Also I looked up "his" 1996 Welfare Reform bill. He actually vetoed Welfare Reform twice before Kasich and Gingrich came back with a veto-proof majority on the third attempt (328-101 in the House and 78-21 in the Senate) after making significant changes that made it less terrible (it was still terrible but the first version wanted to allow the states to do anything they wanted with food stamp and medicare money). That's not the actions of someone who actually wanted that mess. It's the actions of someone fighting it - and then trying to steal the credit to deny the political benefits to the opposition.
posted by Francis at 4:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [57 favorites]
The Clintons at the very least are not right wing democrats - they just pass for them because it makes it easier to get things done. If you're looking at Bill Clinton, remember that his main primary opponent in 1992 was proposing a flat tax, had a tax policy designed by Arthur Laffer, and wanted to abolish the Department of Education.
Also I looked up "his" 1996 Welfare Reform bill. He actually vetoed Welfare Reform twice before Kasich and Gingrich came back with a veto-proof majority on the third attempt (328-101 in the House and 78-21 in the Senate) after making significant changes that made it less terrible (it was still terrible but the first version wanted to allow the states to do anything they wanted with food stamp and medicare money). That's not the actions of someone who actually wanted that mess. It's the actions of someone fighting it - and then trying to steal the credit to deny the political benefits to the opposition.
posted by Francis at 4:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [57 favorites]
Gerrymandering has certainly been around for a long time but it wasn't deployed as systematically and precisely as it was after the 2010 census. Its current effects are profoundly anti-democratic (in both meanings of that word) and is one of the main causes of the horrible state of the current House of Representatives. In 2014, in my state of PA, the Republicans got 55.5% of the congressional vote but won 72% of the seats.
posted by octothorpe at 4:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
>We have a Republican controlled house and senate here in PA, there's zero chance that they'll do anything to make it easier to vote here.
We have that and a Republican governor as well in TN, but, while they pursue the full tea party agenda, early voting is entrenched. I guess it depends on how secure they feel.
Same with Texas. My boyfriend and I were talking about it the other day and all we could come up with is that they think both that all white people vote Republican and they've sufficiently disenfranchised people of color. In that context, I find it kind of cute (though that's admittedly a bit patronising) how much Travis County wants me to vote. I got the early voting leaflet when I renewed my car registration last month and Austin sent it with the electric bills last month, including emailing it to you if you only do electronic billing.
(Is the "you can vote anywhere in the county" thing just Travis County or all of Texas? That was definitely refreshing. I did stand in an absurd line to vote in the primary in a very wealthy, very white neighborhood near work. Turns out they haven't quite figured out how to let the people they want to vote do so efficiently. Maybe that's what's with the early voting. In any case, it was an interesting contrast to Minneapolis, which was efficient until the year they redistricted in what I think was an attempt to limit the number of people of color on the city council. Then my polling place with two equally efficient precincts turned into one efficient precinct and one glacial precinct.)
posted by hoyland at 4:30 AM on October 25, 2016
We have that and a Republican governor as well in TN, but, while they pursue the full tea party agenda, early voting is entrenched. I guess it depends on how secure they feel.
Same with Texas. My boyfriend and I were talking about it the other day and all we could come up with is that they think both that all white people vote Republican and they've sufficiently disenfranchised people of color. In that context, I find it kind of cute (though that's admittedly a bit patronising) how much Travis County wants me to vote. I got the early voting leaflet when I renewed my car registration last month and Austin sent it with the electric bills last month, including emailing it to you if you only do electronic billing.
(Is the "you can vote anywhere in the county" thing just Travis County or all of Texas? That was definitely refreshing. I did stand in an absurd line to vote in the primary in a very wealthy, very white neighborhood near work. Turns out they haven't quite figured out how to let the people they want to vote do so efficiently. Maybe that's what's with the early voting. In any case, it was an interesting contrast to Minneapolis, which was efficient until the year they redistricted in what I think was an attempt to limit the number of people of color on the city council. Then my polling place with two equally efficient precincts turned into one efficient precinct and one glacial precinct.)
posted by hoyland at 4:30 AM on October 25, 2016
To recap Trump Scandals of just the last 24 hours
-$17 million dollars in questionable insurance claims at his Florida resort.
-Responds to latest claims groping with nonsensical confession of "oh I'm sure she's never been grabbed before."
-His fundraisers are on tape offering a pay to play deal with reporters posing as a Chinese billionaire
-He hosted Cocaine/Sex parties with girls seeking to work as models
posted by humanfont at 4:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [44 favorites]
-$17 million dollars in questionable insurance claims at his Florida resort.
-Responds to latest claims groping with nonsensical confession of "oh I'm sure she's never been grabbed before."
-His fundraisers are on tape offering a pay to play deal with reporters posing as a Chinese billionaire
-He hosted Cocaine/Sex parties with girls seeking to work as models
posted by humanfont at 4:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [44 favorites]
That alleged "fixer" for the Clintons
Wait, the same Jeff Rovin who wrote all of those Nintendo strategy paperback books in the late 1980s? The same guy? Really?? Well, that's another pleasant childhood memory tainted.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait, the same Jeff Rovin who wrote all of those Nintendo strategy paperback books in the late 1980s? The same guy? Really?? Well, that's another pleasant childhood memory tainted.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I was going to make the same point octothorpe did, but I'd also add that gerrymandering isn't just keeping Democrats from getting a representational proportion of seats, but perhaps as bad, it's helped push the Republicans into Wackyland in the house with primaries that push away from moderate positions. (They would undoubtedly say there is a similar effect for some Dem seats, and perhaps so, either way it isn't ideal and not as representational of the populace as it should be.) Sign me up for algorithmic design. Elections work best when the opportunity for partisan wrangling is least. Everyone should have the best shot at an absolutely equal say possible.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 5:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Down here in Florida, my girlfriend keeps getting voicemails claiming to be from the Trump campaign thanking her for submitting a mail-in ballot. She never requested a mail-in ballot, nor sent one in. We're trying to figure out why she's getting these calls. Best I can come up with is it's an attempt (mainly meant for the elderly who may be easily confused) to convince her that she already voted so she won't actually vote. The flaw in that theory is that she's registered as a Republican although she's never voted R and just never bothered to change the registration. So why would she be getting these calls? Is this scummy behavior or just bad recordkeeping?
posted by Servo5678 at 5:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 5:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Exclusive investigation: Donald Trump faces foreign donor fundraising scandal
Wow, that is a "sting" O'Keefe could only dream of, aided by the target actually being corrupt and not having to use editing to make shit up.
posted by Artw at 5:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow, that is a "sting" O'Keefe could only dream of, aided by the target actually being corrupt and not having to use editing to make shit up.
posted by Artw at 5:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Correction to the above: my girlfriend says the calls thank her for requesting a mail-in ballot and remind her to send it in, not thank her for already sending it. So just bad recordkeeping then, I guess. She still never requested a mail-in ballot. We're going to early vote this weekend.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:31 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 5:31 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
We have term limits in Ohio, but all it has done is ensure that career politicians hold multiple positions throughout their careers. They just jump back and forth between the Ohio House & Senate, with some taking occasional stints as Attorney General, Auditor, Treasurer, Secretary of State, etc. It's ridiculous.
posted by zakur at 5:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zakur at 5:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
@JonLemire: In penultimate week of campaign, Trump is taking break to attend official opening of new Washington hotel
posted by zombieflanders at 5:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 5:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Lol I completely missed that Telegraph sting on Trumps Super PAC. That would be devastating in any other year. Now its barely a blip.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
A campaign ender for any other candidate, for Trump it's a Tuesday.
posted by Artw at 5:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [22 favorites]
In case you missed this NYer profile of Ana Navarro from last week like I did, I found it a slightly heartening, slightly concerning vision of what a non-deplorable GOP might look like in the future.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I second the recommendation to read the linked NYer article and found the same things in it.
posted by winna at 5:45 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by winna at 5:45 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is the "you can vote anywhere in the county" thing just Travis County or all of Texas? That was definitely refreshing.
It's true of Harris county as well, and I agree it is indeed refreshing.
posted by Salieri at 5:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's true of Harris county as well, and I agree it is indeed refreshing.
posted by Salieri at 5:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
A campaign ender for any other candidate, for Trump it's a Tuesday.
Tuesday? That must be the scandal with Belgium.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Tuesday? That must be the scandal with Belgium.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
There is such a narrow space to govern in the US right now, even in the American way where messy compromises get thrashed out between sides asserting an equal claim to power. There is, however, an incentive for not governing that dates back to the Bill Clinton presidency, was shaped by Whitewater and by Bob Dole in the Senate, and was cemented by the arrival of Fox News. That's where the permanent campaign began: I doubt that Hillary Clinton has the power to change that, but it would be fitting if she could do so.
I recall reading somewhere that the start of obstructionism coincided with some pork reduction measures. When the less powerful can't secure things for their district to make themselves look good to their constituents what incentives do they have at all to contribute to governance (ignoring a sense of civic responsibility because evidence)?
posted by srboisvert at 6:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
I recall reading somewhere that the start of obstructionism coincided with some pork reduction measures. When the less powerful can't secure things for their district to make themselves look good to their constituents what incentives do they have at all to contribute to governance (ignoring a sense of civic responsibility because evidence)?
posted by srboisvert at 6:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
BBC: The cost of healthcare insurance in the US under the Affordable Care Act is expected to rise by an average of 25% in 2017, according to the government.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 6:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
About one in five consumers will also only be able to pick plans from a single insurer, it said.She'll need a solid majority in both houses to fix things as they need to be, imo.
But it said federal subsidies will also rise, and about 70% of people will find plans for less than $75 (£61) a month.
[...]
According to the report from the Department of Health and Human Services, for a 27-year-old consumer, in the prime age group sought by insurers, the average monthly premium for a benchmark plan would be $302 next year, up from $242 this year.
The average increase of 25% in benchmark premiums on the federal exchange compares with increases of 2% in 2015 and 7% this year.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 6:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
This visualization is fascinating when it breaks down the age/gender splits across the electorate.
posted by winna at 6:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 6:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Pork is kind of a bullshit term for what is often a case of bypassing a lot of red tape to get an important local project funded in a congressional district. It was a lot harder for GOP folks to break ranks when there was very little Obama could offer to help them with the ordinary problems people look to their member of solve. See also the over hyped fears of hiring lobbiests into government jobs. Lobbiests are experts at shaping and getting legislation through congress. Obama probably could have used some help there. It was like you needed to draft some detailed contract, but wouldn't hire a lawyer because fuck lawyers those bastards.
posted by humanfont at 6:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 6:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
I never quite understood the arguments for term limits.
Mike Madigan in Illinois is probably the best argument you could ever see for term limits. Some politicians can game the hell out of the system and entrench themselves despite incredible and obvious venality. The guy controls the state legislature at the same time as running a law firm that secures commercial property tax breaks for his clients. So he makes the loopholes and taxes that his firm then exploits for clients. It's a pretty sweet deal!
I'm opposed to term limits because I believe expertise and experience are good things and I don't want a government composed of an endless parade of newbs however the consequence is that sometimes you end up with an emperor palpatine.
posted by srboisvert at 6:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Mike Madigan in Illinois is probably the best argument you could ever see for term limits. Some politicians can game the hell out of the system and entrench themselves despite incredible and obvious venality. The guy controls the state legislature at the same time as running a law firm that secures commercial property tax breaks for his clients. So he makes the loopholes and taxes that his firm then exploits for clients. It's a pretty sweet deal!
I'm opposed to term limits because I believe expertise and experience are good things and I don't want a government composed of an endless parade of newbs however the consequence is that sometimes you end up with an emperor palpatine.
posted by srboisvert at 6:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Do those of you who oppose term limits oppose them for everything including the presidency? (I find it strange to think of the presidency without term limits, even though I'm in the UK where there is no such thing.)
posted by corvine at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by corvine at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2016
Trump is bringing out minority employees in a line to endorse him. Holy shit.
Blink if you're being held against your will.
Also, looking at the Trump TV footage. Holy shit. It's like a 10 dollar Youtube vid. Nobody had a decent HD webcam? The ability to white balance? A boom mic? More than 3mbps for upload?
posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Blink if you're being held against your will.
Also, looking at the Trump TV footage. Holy shit. It's like a 10 dollar Youtube vid. Nobody had a decent HD webcam? The ability to white balance? A boom mic? More than 3mbps for upload?
posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Obamacare price hikes were an October Surprise years in the making, and in any other election cycle, would have been very damaging to the Democratic Party.
This year, it will get a couple minutes of attention before Trump says something else horrible and his little centipedes scurry back into the rotten log of Wikileaks email dumps, pursuing a fever dream of a lock-her-up worthy scandal.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
This year, it will get a couple minutes of attention before Trump says something else horrible and his little centipedes scurry back into the rotten log of Wikileaks email dumps, pursuing a fever dream of a lock-her-up worthy scandal.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, looking at the Trump TV footage. Holy shit. It's like a 10 dollar Youtube vid. Nobody had a decent HD webcam? The ability to white balance? A boom mic? More than 3mbps for upload?
I figure he's just going for the Myspace II: Electric Boogaloo crowd.
posted by cashman at 6:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I figure he's just going for the Myspace II: Electric Boogaloo crowd.
posted by cashman at 6:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
This morning's important read is this survey: The Divide Over America’s Future: 1950 or 2050?.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [72 favorites]
About seven in ten likely voters supporting Donald Trump (72%) say American society and way of life has changed for the worse since the 1950s, while seven in ten likely voters supporting Hillary Clinton (70%) say things have changed for the better.When I think about the 50's even though I am a baby boomer, I don't have rose-tinted glasses on. The 50's were a time of overt sexism, racism, and homophobia. It was a time when your only choices for entertainment was what was on TV, what was playing at the local movie house, whatever music your local radio chose to play. Food, clothing, cars, and other consumer goods offered far fewer choices and were much more expensive. Pedophilia was not discussed and children were not warned about it. Corporal punishment was the norm. Birth control was limited to abstinence and condoms. People smoked everywhere including on planes and in restaurants. Church was more or less required whether you had faith or not. Clothing was rigid and uncomfortable. Housewives were meant to find fulfillment in cleaning, cooking, and child-rearing. I mean I could go on for several more paragraphs but the 50's is can only be remembered fondly by a few white men with hazy memories.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [72 favorites]
This is like the end of "Face in the Crowd" where Lonesome Rhodes is surrounded by his servants, screaming at them "You're gonna love me!"
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd also add that gerrymandering isn't just keeping Democrats from getting a representational proportion of seats, but perhaps as bad, it's helped push the Republicans into Wackyland in the house with primaries that push away from moderate positions.
It would be more or less impossible for the same set of gerrymandered districts to do both of these at the same time, even in theory. The way you create or increase a GOP majority by gerrymandering is by maximizing the number of districts that are only a little bit GOP, so you don't waste GOP votes. This makes moderate districts.
In any case, while the idea isn't silly, it turns out that just as an empirical matter gerrymandering is at most an inconsequential part of why Congress has become more polarized. In a nutshell, polarization didn't happen because there were lots more extreme districts, it happened because MCs from similar moderate districts are voting in increasingly extreme ways.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
It would be more or less impossible for the same set of gerrymandered districts to do both of these at the same time, even in theory. The way you create or increase a GOP majority by gerrymandering is by maximizing the number of districts that are only a little bit GOP, so you don't waste GOP votes. This makes moderate districts.
In any case, while the idea isn't silly, it turns out that just as an empirical matter gerrymandering is at most an inconsequential part of why Congress has become more polarized. In a nutshell, polarization didn't happen because there were lots more extreme districts, it happened because MCs from similar moderate districts are voting in increasingly extreme ways.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
He is Sisyphus and we are the boulder.
One must imagine the boulder happy.
It'll be rockin'...
posted by y2karl at 6:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
One must imagine the boulder happy.
It'll be rockin'...
posted by y2karl at 6:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Justinian - there's a whole other thread for California.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sophie1 at 6:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
My friend is running for State Senate in Tennessee. Her opponent ran an ad accusing her of having 'Detroit values' and claiming that he shares 'Tennessean values,' which seems about as audible a dog-whistle as one finds in the wild.
fuck that guy
posted by palindromic at 6:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [39 favorites]
fuck that guy
posted by palindromic at 6:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [39 favorites]
I mean I could go on for several more paragraphs but the 50's is can only be remembered fondly by a few white men with hazy memories.
In particular, right now, I think the 1950s are primarily remembered fondly by working-class-and-better white people who were children at the time, so of course they thought everything was right and proper then. And their parents who remain, who thought they had things pretty good because their childhoods were during the Great Depression. Everybody born after 1960 who thinks that the 50s were amazing is relying on the reports of one of those two groups of people or TV.
posted by Sequence at 6:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
In particular, right now, I think the 1950s are primarily remembered fondly by working-class-and-better white people who were children at the time, so of course they thought everything was right and proper then. And their parents who remain, who thought they had things pretty good because their childhoods were during the Great Depression. Everybody born after 1960 who thinks that the 50s were amazing is relying on the reports of one of those two groups of people or TV.
posted by Sequence at 6:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
My (50s, white) boss (at an oil company in Texas) just sent this email to the people who report to him:
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:01 AM on October 25, 2016 [82 favorites]
I will take a vacation day today, Tuesday, to vote.We're pretty sure he's taking a vacation day because he can't vote Democrat while sober, but I'll take it!
I'm a 20th century Republican but I don't recognize the party in this 21's century. With respect to Mr. Trump in particular, I don't believe that men have any place in life without women and children. Mr. Trump does not represent my views so I'll be voting for Hillary who I believe to be incompetent ... over Mr. Trump who, I believe, is seriously dangerous.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:01 AM on October 25, 2016 [82 favorites]
More of the kids are all right.
Hillary Clinton is matching Barack Obama with young voters
"Through most of this fall, it looked like Clinton was letting young voters slip away from the Democratic coalition. She was running way behind Obama among this voting bloc, by as many as 25 points. Some polls had her down to the low 40s among those under 30, setting off a flurry of liberal panic about millennials’ “third-party revolution.”
But if the latest polling is right, this challenge has mostly if not completely dissipated. Young people considered Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson and toyed with staying on the couch on Election Day — they have instead decided to come back into the Democratic Party tent.
Clinton is now projected to get exactly the same youth vote share as Obama did in 2012 (60 percent), according to a massive new study released Monday by the Black Youth Project at the University of Chicago, as part of its GenForward survey series. It’s a stunning turnaround for a campaign that has faced months of fierce criticism and second-guessing over its apparent inability to shore up its millennial support."
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Hillary Clinton is matching Barack Obama with young voters
"Through most of this fall, it looked like Clinton was letting young voters slip away from the Democratic coalition. She was running way behind Obama among this voting bloc, by as many as 25 points. Some polls had her down to the low 40s among those under 30, setting off a flurry of liberal panic about millennials’ “third-party revolution.”
But if the latest polling is right, this challenge has mostly if not completely dissipated. Young people considered Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson and toyed with staying on the couch on Election Day — they have instead decided to come back into the Democratic Party tent.
Clinton is now projected to get exactly the same youth vote share as Obama did in 2012 (60 percent), according to a massive new study released Monday by the Black Youth Project at the University of Chicago, as part of its GenForward survey series. It’s a stunning turnaround for a campaign that has faced months of fierce criticism and second-guessing over its apparent inability to shore up its millennial support."
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
The Trump Files: Donald's Words to a Grieving Mother: After Kelly Preston's son died, Trump said he "worked like hell to try and pick her up."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:07 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:07 AM on October 25, 2016
1955 was 61 years ago. People who actually remember that time period at all (like, were over the age of 5) are 66+ years old. People who were teens or adults during that time period are in their late 70s and older (according to the census, there are about 6 million people aged 85+ which is about 2% of the total population) There are very few people left who have a legitimate memory of the 1950s. What white Americans have now is a cultural myth of a lost golden age.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [62 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [62 favorites]
Out here in the Rust Belt, the 50s are remembered as a time when blue-collar workers could earn a middle-class living at the mills and that there was some hope of upward mobility for their kids.
posted by octothorpe at 7:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
I thought the GenForward surveys had already established that millennials actually were already behind Hillary and weren't supporting third parties nearly as much as everyone else was saying. That was their whole claim to fame this season.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:11 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:11 AM on October 25, 2016
Do those of you who oppose term limits oppose them for everything including the presidency?
Before there was an official term limit, there was a traditional "two and out" based on Washington's example. FDR was the lone exception (under extraordinary circumstances.) So, it didn't really change much when it was codified.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:13 AM on October 25, 2016
Before there was an official term limit, there was a traditional "two and out" based on Washington's example. FDR was the lone exception (under extraordinary circumstances.) So, it didn't really change much when it was codified.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:13 AM on October 25, 2016
Some FL early voting news:
Fla. says 1.6 million early voting ballots cast
and
Democrats won every county on I-4 in Florida on day one of early voting. That and more in today's early vote memo:
"Here are some interesting places on day one:
Won Duval County by 1,700 votes. Duval hasn't voted for a Democrat for President since Carter, and is one of those places where Trump really needs to run up the score. Dems also won the day in Polk County, an I-4 county that also hasn't voted for a Democrat since Carter.
Won Volusia County by several hundred, again a place that Trump was hoping to build on the gains of Romney in 2012.
And in bellwether county Hillsborough, the only place in Florida to vote for Bush twice and Obama twice, Democrats won by almost 3,000 votes, or roughly 14 points (49-35). By comparison, Democrats have a 7 point advantage in registration.
In fact, Democrats won every county along I-4, plus Pinellas -- including both Republican strongholds Polk and Seminole. The total I-4 vote was 48-33D. Seminole County hasn't voted Democrat in a Presidential election since Truman.
Base turnout was also very encouraging.
In Orange County, Democrats won a robust day 53-27%
In Broward County, Democrats won a record day 63-20%
In Palm Beach, a county which improved for Romney in 2012, Dems won 53-27%
In Alachua, where the University of Florida is, it was 65-22% Dems.
And in Dade County, 10,000 more voters showed up on the first day of early voting than 2012. Of the 35,000 who cast a ballot, Democrats won the day 53-27%."
posted by chris24 at 7:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Fla. says 1.6 million early voting ballots cast
and
Democrats won every county on I-4 in Florida on day one of early voting. That and more in today's early vote memo:
"Here are some interesting places on day one:
Won Duval County by 1,700 votes. Duval hasn't voted for a Democrat for President since Carter, and is one of those places where Trump really needs to run up the score. Dems also won the day in Polk County, an I-4 county that also hasn't voted for a Democrat since Carter.
Won Volusia County by several hundred, again a place that Trump was hoping to build on the gains of Romney in 2012.
And in bellwether county Hillsborough, the only place in Florida to vote for Bush twice and Obama twice, Democrats won by almost 3,000 votes, or roughly 14 points (49-35). By comparison, Democrats have a 7 point advantage in registration.
In fact, Democrats won every county along I-4, plus Pinellas -- including both Republican strongholds Polk and Seminole. The total I-4 vote was 48-33D. Seminole County hasn't voted Democrat in a Presidential election since Truman.
Base turnout was also very encouraging.
In Orange County, Democrats won a robust day 53-27%
In Broward County, Democrats won a record day 63-20%
In Palm Beach, a county which improved for Romney in 2012, Dems won 53-27%
In Alachua, where the University of Florida is, it was 65-22% Dems.
And in Dade County, 10,000 more voters showed up on the first day of early voting than 2012. Of the 35,000 who cast a ballot, Democrats won the day 53-27%."
posted by chris24 at 7:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Base turnout was also very encouraging.
Interesting. A lot of those R numbers are close to or under(!) the 27% crazification factor.
posted by Twain Device at 7:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Interesting. A lot of those R numbers are close to or under(!) the 27% crazification factor.
posted by Twain Device at 7:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
When the older edge of GenX thinks of the 50s, their ideas have been shaped by things like Happy Days, and all the other masturbatory media about that era. very little of which of which included the overwhelming racism and misogyny of the period.
Re Trump and Kelly Preston on the death of her son, it's like he doesn't even KNOW HOW to be a decent approximation of a human. What a horrible, horrible man he is.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Re Trump and Kelly Preston on the death of her son, it's like he doesn't even KNOW HOW to be a decent approximation of a human. What a horrible, horrible man he is.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not putting a ton of stock in these elevated early voting numbers yet, it could be Democrats are more motivated to get it over with, and not necessarily predictive of total turnout.
Not that early voting is in any way a bad thing though, at the very least every vote on the board is one more than Republicans can't intimidate or challenge on election day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Not that early voting is in any way a bad thing though, at the very least every vote on the board is one more than Republicans can't intimidate or challenge on election day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
I assume Dems "won" means "submitted more ballots", yeah?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Some FL early voting news:
'Nuh uh, doesn't prove anything because did you know that Trump got over 20,000 people in Tampa! Hillary couldn't get a couple of thousand. Trump is gonna kill Florida!' /s
This is the general type of comment I've been reading on every Florida voting article I've read this am and it's getting annoying because it's just so dumb.
posted by Jalliah at 7:22 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I assume Dems "won" means "submitted more ballots", yeah?
Yes, more D votes.
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, more D votes.
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Umm wtf? Do you have any idea how Australia actually works? Where are you getting this bullshit from?
That was clearly a joke, but I agree with R343L that it was a bad idea.
posted by languagehat at 7:25 AM on October 25, 2016
That was clearly a joke, but I agree with R343L that it was a bad idea.
posted by languagehat at 7:25 AM on October 25, 2016
Hillary Clinton is matching Barack Obama with young voters
posted by Artw at 7:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
133,000 Latinos have already cast ballots in Florida. That is a 99% increase over 2012
Now do you believe me? This shit is gonna be a landslide. Expect us.
posted by joedan at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [37 favorites]
Now do you believe me? This shit is gonna be a landslide. Expect us.
posted by joedan at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [37 favorites]
I assume Dems "won" means "submitted more ballots", yeah?
Yes, more D votes.
May I submit that that framing goes beyond being merely misleading into being outright offensive?
posted by Shmuel510 at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, more D votes.
May I submit that that framing goes beyond being merely misleading into being outright offensive?
posted by Shmuel510 at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Everybody born after 1960 who thinks that the 50s were amazing is relying on the reports of one of those two groups of people or TV.
To be fair, Route 66 does make it look pretty appealing.
Meanwhile, in news from what used to be the fringe, notorious quack and anti-vaxxer Mike Adams (what is it with these Adams guys?), is predicting that the "MSM" and Clinton are plotting to assassinate their own voters and blame it on Trump. Terrifyingly, that's only slightly crazier than what Donnie's saying on the trail and there's 14 days and a wake-up left to go. He might get there yet. No surprise that crank Adams is supporting crank Trump. It's the most perfect example of crank magnetism imaginable.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2016
To be fair, Route 66 does make it look pretty appealing.
Meanwhile, in news from what used to be the fringe, notorious quack and anti-vaxxer Mike Adams (what is it with these Adams guys?), is predicting that the "MSM" and Clinton are plotting to assassinate their own voters and blame it on Trump. Terrifyingly, that's only slightly crazier than what Donnie's saying on the trail and there's 14 days and a wake-up left to go. He might get there yet. No surprise that crank Adams is supporting crank Trump. It's the most perfect example of crank magnetism imaginable.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2016
One thing that's good about the early voting results is that it's mostly not due to the Dem vote coming in higher than usual (it is, but not hugely), it's about the Rep vote coming in much lower than usual. Which is a bit hopeful when it comes to expecting good things on election day; to turn that around, it's not about discrediting Clinton, it's about reconciling Republican voters with Trump. Which seems essentially impossible at this point.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
May I submit that that framing goes beyond being merely misleading into being outright offensive?
The writer saying Ds won the day in early voting at a location is offensive?
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
The writer saying Ds won the day in early voting at a location is offensive?
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
May I submit that that framing goes beyond being merely misleading into being outright offensive?
You're saying its insulting to assume that people are voting for the party they registered for? It may be an assumption but it is statistically been proven out more and more recently, plus why would someone be insulted you assumed they voted for the party they espouse membership in?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:31 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
You're saying its insulting to assume that people are voting for the party they registered for? It may be an assumption but it is statistically been proven out more and more recently, plus why would someone be insulted you assumed they voted for the party they espouse membership in?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:31 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The writer saying Ds won the day in early voting at a location is offensive?
"Winning the day" involves a given candidate getting more votes. Amazingly enough, we live in a democracy with secret ballots, wherein people are allowed to vote for those from any party, regardless of their own party registration. The implied assertion to the contrary strikes at the foundation of how the system works.
posted by Shmuel510 at 7:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Winning the day" involves a given candidate getting more votes. Amazingly enough, we live in a democracy with secret ballots, wherein people are allowed to vote for those from any party, regardless of their own party registration. The implied assertion to the contrary strikes at the foundation of how the system works.
posted by Shmuel510 at 7:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
One can make reasonable deductions.
posted by Artw at 7:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
I submit that this election has recalibrated my bar for "offensive" infinitely higher than this.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [78 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [78 favorites]
"Winning the day" involves a given candidate getting more votes.
Except the entire article mentions nothing about specific candidates and clearly only says that more registered Ds have voted. People are free to do with that information what they will. If you want to get upset about it, fine. I happen to find it valuable as do many others.
posted by chris24 at 7:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Except the entire article mentions nothing about specific candidates and clearly only says that more registered Ds have voted. People are free to do with that information what they will. If you want to get upset about it, fine. I happen to find it valuable as do many others.
posted by chris24 at 7:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
The writer saying Ds won the day in early voting at a location is offensive?
I'd say it's at the very least pretty close to offensively misleading, yeah. The writer strongly implies that votes have been counted, when they haven't been:
The truth, however, is more like "approximately 80% of early ballots were cast by voters registered as either Democrats or Republicans. Of that 80%, more were cast by voters registered as Democrats," which is very different from what the writer is implying.
posted by dersins at 7:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'd say it's at the very least pretty close to offensively misleading, yeah. The writer strongly implies that votes have been counted, when they haven't been:
In fact, Democrats won every county along I-4, plus Pinellas -- including both Republican strongholds Polk and Seminole. The total I-4 vote was 48-33D.We are meant to infer from this that Democratic candidates received more votes than Republican candidates.
The truth, however, is more like "approximately 80% of early ballots were cast by voters registered as either Democrats or Republicans. Of that 80%, more were cast by voters registered as Democrats," which is very different from what the writer is implying.
posted by dersins at 7:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Eyebrows McGee: I'm really curious to see how many of Trump's foreign and domestic business partners pull out of contracts in the weeks after the election.
...
Anyway I hope someone makes a website tracking this, I'm very curious to see it go down.
Yowser: Shannon Coulter is tracking companies that carry Trump products. No company has dropped them yet.
Jalliah: I just registered a domain in case I find time to do this. Surprised it wasn't taken yet. Trumptracker.com :D
MetaFilter, let's make it happen! (And by MetaFilter, I mean people who make more than basic static HTML webpages ... but if nothing else, a static list that is updated weekly could suffice.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
...
Anyway I hope someone makes a website tracking this, I'm very curious to see it go down.
Yowser: Shannon Coulter is tracking companies that carry Trump products. No company has dropped them yet.
Jalliah: I just registered a domain in case I find time to do this. Surprised it wasn't taken yet. Trumptracker.com :D
MetaFilter, let's make it happen! (And by MetaFilter, I mean people who make more than basic static HTML webpages ... but if nothing else, a static list that is updated weekly could suffice.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
I expect the D vote is more reliable than the R vote this year, but it is possible there's a shy Trump contingent.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:41 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:41 AM on October 25, 2016
people are allowed to vote for those from any party, regardless of their own party registration. The implied assertion to the contrary strikes at the foundation of how the system works.
The claim is that Democrats won the day - not that Hillary Clinton did. Whatever names are on those ballots, D's have a solid advantage in turnout. I don't assume all those votes are for Hillary (also, not getting into the number of people I know who are registered R but vote D, but want to do R primary voting & propaganda mailings), but I don't think it's misleading to claim that the Democratic party, rather than any particular candidates, is winning in turnout.
Most people will assume that "Democrats are ahead" means "Hillary is ahead," based on a couple-hundred years of voting history. If there are serious examples of a political party leading while losing an election - meaning, where notable numbers of people of that party voted for the opposition, for reasons other than "candidate died between when ballots were printed and when voting happened" - they're not coming to mind.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The claim is that Democrats won the day - not that Hillary Clinton did. Whatever names are on those ballots, D's have a solid advantage in turnout. I don't assume all those votes are for Hillary (also, not getting into the number of people I know who are registered R but vote D, but want to do R primary voting & propaganda mailings), but I don't think it's misleading to claim that the Democratic party, rather than any particular candidates, is winning in turnout.
Most people will assume that "Democrats are ahead" means "Hillary is ahead," based on a couple-hundred years of voting history. If there are serious examples of a political party leading while losing an election - meaning, where notable numbers of people of that party voted for the opposition, for reasons other than "candidate died between when ballots were printed and when voting happened" - they're not coming to mind.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
If Trump is having trouble rousing even his own base, I think it is safe to assume that within margin of error, those D votes aren't going to Trump.
posted by Twain Device at 7:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Twain Device at 7:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
The truth, however, is more like "approximately 80% of early ballots were cast by voters registered as either Democrats or Republicans. Of that 80%, more were cast by voters registered as Democrats," which is very different from what the writer is implying.
Where are you getting this? In Florida, you can see who has early voted by party. He's not guessing.
posted by chris24 at 7:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Where are you getting this? In Florida, you can see who has early voted by party. He's not guessing.
posted by chris24 at 7:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Heads up on Chicago area: multiple people I know who have early voted on electronic booths are reporting pushing Hillary and Trump bring selected. People have been reporting incidents as appropriate. You can correct it to Clinton, but double check just to be sure. If it happens to you, please report it to your polling place at the very least.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [29 favorites]
I doubt it's going to have anything more than a marginal effect in this election, but I do worry about the idea that early voting could distort more competitive races by depressing / increasing turnout based on inferences drawn from the early voting numbers. Like maybe Democrats are showing up more, and that gets GOP voters who might be discouraged to turn out when they might not have otherwise. I guess similar logic has been used to embargo exit polls on Election Day for fear they might affect the results.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nearly All Of Silicon Valley’s Political Dollars Are Going To Hillary Clinton
posted by Artw at 7:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can I just say how much I fucking LOATHE the DSCC's e-mail unsubscription process?
Like, first, they try to decoy you with that bullshit "take a break for a while" link in the tiniest font of all. Then, you have to click through two goddamn screens with more decoy buttons. And plus, you have to do it all with that fucking giant super close up of Obama making one of his signature gestures. I am fond of the guy, but that level of emotional manipulation just makes me roll my eyes.
YES PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE MY WORK E-MAIL FROM YOUR HOURLY BEGGING E-MAILS
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
Like, first, they try to decoy you with that bullshit "take a break for a while" link in the tiniest font of all. Then, you have to click through two goddamn screens with more decoy buttons. And plus, you have to do it all with that fucking giant super close up of Obama making one of his signature gestures. I am fond of the guy, but that level of emotional manipulation just makes me roll my eyes.
YES PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE MY WORK E-MAIL FROM YOUR HOURLY BEGGING E-MAILS
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
It would be more or less impossible for the same set of gerrymandered districts to do both of these at the same time, even in theory.
Oh, sure, for some districts it is simply done to move as many areas as possible to leans R, if there is a strong D community, but in areas where they already might lean R and there isn't as strong a D community, then they can make several stronger R districts out of a couple leaners and a more concentrated R stronghold, making all of them safe for Republicans and creating something of an echo chamber between the candidates vying for the jobs in neighboring communities. Or so it was claimed back around 2010 anyway.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, sure, for some districts it is simply done to move as many areas as possible to leans R, if there is a strong D community, but in areas where they already might lean R and there isn't as strong a D community, then they can make several stronger R districts out of a couple leaners and a more concentrated R stronghold, making all of them safe for Republicans and creating something of an echo chamber between the candidates vying for the jobs in neighboring communities. Or so it was claimed back around 2010 anyway.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Heads up on Chicago area: multiple people I know who have early voted on electronic booths are reporting pushing Hillary and Trump bring selected. People have been reporting incidents as appropriate. You can correct it to Clinton, but double check just to be sure. If it happens to you, please report it to your polling place at the very least.
Holy shit.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Holy shit.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
moody cow: This ad for a Republican down-ballot race in Texas is everything.
Direct link to an old white man ramble on about how much room they have in their prisons, why public transit is a scam (can't carry a significant percentage of the community at the same time, even if you add two whole cars), and why those people whining about the 18 wheeler parking in their neighborhood have to suck it up (it's not a code violation).
Gerald, prisons aren't supposed to be treated as forced-stay hotels for people you don't want wandering around your community, public transit is meant to offer opportunities to the public at large (remember, not everyone can afford a car, even if you think cars are the best mode of transportation), and it's up to you to write the goddamned codes.
Sorry, Charlyn Daugherty, you can keep him.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
Direct link to an old white man ramble on about how much room they have in their prisons, why public transit is a scam (can't carry a significant percentage of the community at the same time, even if you add two whole cars), and why those people whining about the 18 wheeler parking in their neighborhood have to suck it up (it's not a code violation).
Gerald, prisons aren't supposed to be treated as forced-stay hotels for people you don't want wandering around your community, public transit is meant to offer opportunities to the public at large (remember, not everyone can afford a car, even if you think cars are the best mode of transportation), and it's up to you to write the goddamned codes.
Sorry, Charlyn Daugherty, you can keep him.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
love does in fact trump hate"Love Trumps Hate" would have been a great Orwellian slogan for the Trump campaign.
posted by Coventry at 7:58 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
When the older edge of GenX thinks of the 50s, their ideas have been shaped by things like Happy Days,
Even more than that, we already had reruns of Leave It To Beaver, Father Knows Best, etc, which seemed real because they were actually products of the time. In my mind, Happy Days was a step removed, especially as the show didn't really age even as the in-world calendar did.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Even more than that, we already had reruns of Leave It To Beaver, Father Knows Best, etc, which seemed real because they were actually products of the time. In my mind, Happy Days was a step removed, especially as the show didn't really age even as the in-world calendar did.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Emotional Florida voters flock to the polls on first day of early voting
"Early voting in Florida has traditionally favored Democrats, while voting by mail has historically been the Republicans' strong suit.
But Florida Democrats have virtually eliminated the GOP's historical advantage in mail ballot returns. Of the nearly 1.3 million mail ballots that were reported as returned as of Monday, 41.7 percent were from Republicans and 40 percent were from Democrats.
At this point four years ago, Republicans held an advantage of more than 5 percentage points."
posted by chris24 at 7:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Early voting in Florida has traditionally favored Democrats, while voting by mail has historically been the Republicans' strong suit.
But Florida Democrats have virtually eliminated the GOP's historical advantage in mail ballot returns. Of the nearly 1.3 million mail ballots that were reported as returned as of Monday, 41.7 percent were from Republicans and 40 percent were from Democrats.
At this point four years ago, Republicans held an advantage of more than 5 percentage points."
posted by chris24 at 7:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sorry, Charlyn Daugherty, you can keep him.
It's still a good ad. I'd wave a magic wand and elect that guy president if it meant all arguments could be restricted to facts from now on instead of the next 30 years of GOP candidates creating their own reality and attempting to meme-magic will-to-power jedi mind trick their way to totalitarianism.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's still a good ad. I'd wave a magic wand and elect that guy president if it meant all arguments could be restricted to facts from now on instead of the next 30 years of GOP candidates creating their own reality and attempting to meme-magic will-to-power jedi mind trick their way to totalitarianism.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'd also add that gerrymandering isn't just keeping Democrats from getting a representational proportion of seats, but perhaps as bad, it's helped push the Republicans into Wackyland in the house with primaries that push away from moderate positions.
It would be more or less impossible for the same set of gerrymandered districts to do both of these at the same time, even in theory. The way you create or increase a GOP majority by gerrymandering is by maximizing the number of districts that are only a little bit GOP, so you don't waste GOP votes. This makes moderate districts.
Say you've got 10 million voters, 60 percent of which are "blue", in 10 districts. You make four of those districts 90 percent blue (3.6M blue, 0.4M red) and the other six 60 percent red (3.6M red, 2.4M blue). Each of those red districts has a 20-point advantage. That's not "moderate", that's safely red. So the Congressional delegation of your 60 percent blue state is now 60 percent red.
Each of those six safely red representatives is absolutely vulnerable to a challenge from the right, because even if your deep-red challenger turns off a quarter of the red voters, he's going to win the district.
This happened in Michigan. Our House delegation is 9-5 Republican despite Democrats getting 55 percent of the vote in 2014.
posted by Etrigan at 8:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
It would be more or less impossible for the same set of gerrymandered districts to do both of these at the same time, even in theory. The way you create or increase a GOP majority by gerrymandering is by maximizing the number of districts that are only a little bit GOP, so you don't waste GOP votes. This makes moderate districts.
Say you've got 10 million voters, 60 percent of which are "blue", in 10 districts. You make four of those districts 90 percent blue (3.6M blue, 0.4M red) and the other six 60 percent red (3.6M red, 2.4M blue). Each of those red districts has a 20-point advantage. That's not "moderate", that's safely red. So the Congressional delegation of your 60 percent blue state is now 60 percent red.
Each of those six safely red representatives is absolutely vulnerable to a challenge from the right, because even if your deep-red challenger turns off a quarter of the red voters, he's going to win the district.
This happened in Michigan. Our House delegation is 9-5 Republican despite Democrats getting 55 percent of the vote in 2014.
posted by Etrigan at 8:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
There are very few people left who have a legitimate memory of the 1950s.
Cars looked like cars and Coke tasted like Coke.
posted by y2karl at 8:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Cars looked like cars and Coke tasted like Coke.
posted by y2karl at 8:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
To recap Trump Scandals of just the last 24 hours
-$17 million dollars in questionable insurance claims at his Florida resort.
-Responds to latest claims groping with nonsensical confession of "oh I'm sure she's never been grabbed before."
-His fundraisers are on tape offering a pay to play deal with reporters posing as a Chinese billionaire
-He hosted Cocaine/Sex parties with girls seeking to work as models
JFC. I can't even take a 24 hour break from the news cycle without the dumpster fire somehow getting worse? Come on, I though this thing was over already!
posted by nubs at 8:08 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
-$17 million dollars in questionable insurance claims at his Florida resort.
-Responds to latest claims groping with nonsensical confession of "oh I'm sure she's never been grabbed before."
-His fundraisers are on tape offering a pay to play deal with reporters posing as a Chinese billionaire
-He hosted Cocaine/Sex parties with girls seeking to work as models
JFC. I can't even take a 24 hour break from the news cycle without the dumpster fire somehow getting worse? Come on, I though this thing was over already!
posted by nubs at 8:08 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Cars looked like cars and Coke tasted like Coke.
and small furry creatures from alpha centauri were small furry creatures from alpha centauri
posted by entropicamericana at 8:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [44 favorites]
and small furry creatures from alpha centauri were small furry creatures from alpha centauri
posted by entropicamericana at 8:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [44 favorites]
You're saying its insulting to assume that people are voting for the party they registered for?
Wait, that's how they're "counting" results of early voting in Florida? Because that is a pretty valid objection, then. Florida is a closed primary state, which means that in certain areas dominated by one party, you basically get no say in local politics unless you register with that party. My parents, for example, are registered Republicans and... really not Republicans.
posted by indubitable at 8:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wait, that's how they're "counting" results of early voting in Florida? Because that is a pretty valid objection, then. Florida is a closed primary state, which means that in certain areas dominated by one party, you basically get no say in local politics unless you register with that party. My parents, for example, are registered Republicans and... really not Republicans.
posted by indubitable at 8:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
MSNBC is on in the background. Pretty sure I just heard, "the problem is that the Clinton campaign is running smart, and Donald Trump is Donald."
posted by schadenfrau at 8:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait, that's how they're "counting" results of early voting in Florida? Because that is a pretty valid objection, then. Florida is a closed primary state, which means that in certain areas dominated by one party, you basically get no say in local politics unless you register with that party. My parents, for example, are registered Republicans and... really not Republicans.
Then it's a good thing that no one is using these numbers to make inferences about specific votes, but rather about voting patterns in aggregate, compared to previous election years.
Are we really arguing about whether statistical inference is "offensive" because it doesn't reflect the specialness of every snowflake? That's what statistics does. And no one cares about the shapes of individual snowflakes; they care about how many feet of snow we're gonna get.
This thread is literally like 5,000 comments. Come on.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:22 AM on October 25, 2016 [45 favorites]
Then it's a good thing that no one is using these numbers to make inferences about specific votes, but rather about voting patterns in aggregate, compared to previous election years.
Are we really arguing about whether statistical inference is "offensive" because it doesn't reflect the specialness of every snowflake? That's what statistics does. And no one cares about the shapes of individual snowflakes; they care about how many feet of snow we're gonna get.
This thread is literally like 5,000 comments. Come on.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:22 AM on October 25, 2016 [45 favorites]
Wait, that's how they're "counting" results of early voting in Florida? Because that is a pretty valid objection, then.
How else would you 'count?' Votes are secret. The link I posted is from a long-time Florida Dem strategist and former Communications Director for the Florida House Democratic Caucus. I'm going to assume that if he finds value in the information of how votes by party are turning out, there's value there.
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
How else would you 'count?' Votes are secret. The link I posted is from a long-time Florida Dem strategist and former Communications Director for the Florida House Democratic Caucus. I'm going to assume that if he finds value in the information of how votes by party are turning out, there's value there.
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Stop pretending you don't know why people hate Hillary Clinton.
(hint: misogyny)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
(hint: misogyny)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
The latest Rasmussen poll is now showing Clinton ahead. This means that no recent national polls are showing Trump ahead, including IBD/TIPP and USC Dornsife/LA Times, both of which showed Clinton ahead in their most recent report.
As well as The Times-Picayune/Lucid, ABC News/Washington Post, CNN/Opinion Research Corp., Centre College, SurveyMonkey, CVOTER International, Morning Consult, American Research Group, Ipsos, Google Consumer Surveys, Quinnipiac University, YouGov, Fox News, Selzer & Company, Public Religion Research Institute, Monmouth University, and CBS News/New York Times.
I'm taking NOTHING for granted this election, and will not until it's over. But it's still nice.
posted by kyrademon at 8:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
As well as The Times-Picayune/Lucid, ABC News/Washington Post, CNN/Opinion Research Corp., Centre College, SurveyMonkey, CVOTER International, Morning Consult, American Research Group, Ipsos, Google Consumer Surveys, Quinnipiac University, YouGov, Fox News, Selzer & Company, Public Religion Research Institute, Monmouth University, and CBS News/New York Times.
I'm taking NOTHING for granted this election, and will not until it's over. But it's still nice.
posted by kyrademon at 8:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Here's what the Electoral College map would look like if only millennials voted
posted by Artw at 8:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
From the above article:
Consider, for a moment, two people. One, as a young woman at the beginning of a promising legal career, went door to door searching for ways to guarantee an education to the countless disabled and disadvantaged children who had fallen through the cracks. The other, as a young millionaire, exacted revenge on his recently deceased brother's family by cutting off the medical insurance desperately needed by his nephew's newborn son, who at eighteen months of age was suffering from violent seizures brought on by a rare neurological disorder.posted by Sophie1 at 8:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [103 favorites]
What kind of a society treats these two people as equal in any way? What kind of society even considers the latter over the former for its highest office?
Generations from now, people will shake their heads at this moment in time, when the first female major party presidential nominee—competent, qualified and more thoroughly vetted than any non-incumbent candidate in history—endured the humiliation of being likened to such an obvious grifter, ignoramus and hate monger.
an old white man ramble on about how much room they have in their prisons, why public transit is a scam (can't carry a significant percentage of the community at the same time, even if you add two whole cars), and why those people whining about the 18 wheeler parking in their neighborhood have to suck it up (it's not a code violation).
That is such an interesting ad, I mean what "Gerald" is saying is bullshit, but since the ad frames it as rambling no one wants to hear, but is the necessary province of guys like Gerald, then elect him so you don't have to think about that kind of stuff yourself. Just leave it to the obsessive old white guy with a politics hobby, kinda like your uncle likes toy trains or whatever. Kinda genius, but awful at the same time.
(I mean look Gerald, the whole point of light rail isn't that you send five cars once and be done with it, it's that each trip can hold 300 people, and the trains make trips all day! And I think part of the job of being a politician is in changing bad codes, so maybe you could do something about that 18 wheeler instead of just saying it's just the way things are, and maybe don't build so many goddamn prisons while we're at it.)
posted by gusottertrout at 8:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
That is such an interesting ad, I mean what "Gerald" is saying is bullshit, but since the ad frames it as rambling no one wants to hear, but is the necessary province of guys like Gerald, then elect him so you don't have to think about that kind of stuff yourself. Just leave it to the obsessive old white guy with a politics hobby, kinda like your uncle likes toy trains or whatever. Kinda genius, but awful at the same time.
(I mean look Gerald, the whole point of light rail isn't that you send five cars once and be done with it, it's that each trip can hold 300 people, and the trains make trips all day! And I think part of the job of being a politician is in changing bad codes, so maybe you could do something about that 18 wheeler instead of just saying it's just the way things are, and maybe don't build so many goddamn prisons while we're at it.)
posted by gusottertrout at 8:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
About seven in ten likely voters supporting Donald Trump (72%) say American society and way of life has changed for the worse since the 1950s, while seven in ten likely voters supporting Hillary Clinton (70%) say things have changed for the better.
Someone needs to remind these people that the top marginal federal tax rate throughout most of the 1950s was 91% (on incomes above $1M, inflation adjusted). Source.
posted by rocket88 at 8:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
Someone needs to remind these people that the top marginal federal tax rate throughout most of the 1950s was 91% (on incomes above $1M, inflation adjusted). Source.
posted by rocket88 at 8:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
Ari Berman: A City Clerk Opposed an Early-Voting Site at UW–Green Bay Because ‘Students Lean More Toward the Democrats’
After the primary, leaders of eight different student groups—including the Republican, Democratic, and Libertarian parties and the Black Student Union—asked the city to put an early-voting location on campus to alleviate long lines. But city officials ignored the request and opened only one early-voting site on September 26 for the entire city—the third-largest in Wisconsin—at the clerk’s office, a 15-minute drive from campus, which is open only during business hours. City Clerk Kris Teske, an appointee of Republican Mayor Jim Schmitt, a close ally of Governor Scott Walker, said the city didn’t have the money, time, or security to open an early-voting location on campus or anywhere else.posted by zombieflanders at 8:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [53 favorites]
But privately Teske gave a different reason for opposing an early-voting site at UW–Green Bay, writing that student voting would benefit the Democratic Party. “UWGB is a polling location for students and residents on Election Day but I feel by asking for this to be the site for early voting is encouraging the students to vote more than benefiting the city as a whole,” she wrote on August 26 in an e-mail to David Buerger, counsel at the Wisconsin Ethics Commission. “I have heard it said that students lean more toward the democrats…. I have spoken with our Chief of Staff and others at City Hall and they agree that budget wise this isn’t going to happen. Do I have an argument about it being more of a benefit to the democrats?”
The e-mails were provided to The Nation following an open-records request by the One Wisconsin Institute, which has successfully challenged early-voting cutbacks in the state.
In 2014, Wisconsin’s Republican legislature eliminated early-voting hours on nights and weekends and restricted early-voting sites to one location per city. GOP State Senator Glenn Grothman, who’s now a member of Congress, cited extended early-voting hours in heavily Democratic cities like Madison and Milwaukee and said, “I want to nip this in the bud before too many other cities get on board.”
Are we really arguing about whether statistical inference is "offensive" because it doesn't reflect the specialness of every snowflake? That's what statistics does. And no one cares about the shapes of individual snowflakes; they care about how many feet of snow we're gonna get.
This thread is literally like 5,000 comments. Come on.
What the fuck? I said it's misleading, because it is. Nobody has counted any votes. Go jump down someone else's throat.
posted by indubitable at 8:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
This thread is literally like 5,000 comments. Come on.
What the fuck? I said it's misleading, because it is. Nobody has counted any votes. Go jump down someone else's throat.
posted by indubitable at 8:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Point being that even relatively sensible and not-obviously-gerrymandered districts can easily be to the benefit of one party or the other, while drawing them by algorithm can't be gamed like that.
Algorithms are not neutral. They reflect the explicit and implicit biases of their creators, just with less transparency and accountability. (Look at Facebook's "trending news" stuff, where replacing human editors with algos means that programmers are the new editors.)
The NC gerrymander was done with software and datasets developed under the GOP's REDMAP project, where the state's Republican leadership put in an order for a 10-3 US House split on a 50-50 vote, plugged that request into a custom version of Maptitude, and got an map spat out; when SCOTUS threw out some of the districts, they got a chance to do a mid-decade redistricting with all the new demographic data they'd gathered since the original gerrymander.
I understand your intent here, but there are multiple competing algos based on different ostensibly non-partisan principals. Even if you take that approach, humans have to decide which to use, while taking into account how elections in most states are administered on the county level.
posted by holgate at 8:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Algorithms are not neutral. They reflect the explicit and implicit biases of their creators, just with less transparency and accountability. (Look at Facebook's "trending news" stuff, where replacing human editors with algos means that programmers are the new editors.)
The NC gerrymander was done with software and datasets developed under the GOP's REDMAP project, where the state's Republican leadership put in an order for a 10-3 US House split on a 50-50 vote, plugged that request into a custom version of Maptitude, and got an map spat out; when SCOTUS threw out some of the districts, they got a chance to do a mid-decade redistricting with all the new demographic data they'd gathered since the original gerrymander.
I understand your intent here, but there are multiple competing algos based on different ostensibly non-partisan principals. Even if you take that approach, humans have to decide which to use, while taking into account how elections in most states are administered on the county level.
posted by holgate at 8:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Can I just say how much I fucking LOATHE the DSCC's e-mail unsubscription process?
Emails from orgs that have troublesome unsubscribe options get thrown in my "spam" bin if it takes more effort than "click to unsub" and a "yes, really, unsub me" confirmation.
They have to deal with the fallout of being labeled spam in other people's inboxes if enough people do this - that's why businesses make unsubscribing easy. Making it possible is required by law. Making it non-annoying is not, but I'm not required to wade through a complex or whiny "are you really really sure you want to quit, for reals?" process.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Emails from orgs that have troublesome unsubscribe options get thrown in my "spam" bin if it takes more effort than "click to unsub" and a "yes, really, unsub me" confirmation.
They have to deal with the fallout of being labeled spam in other people's inboxes if enough people do this - that's why businesses make unsubscribing easy. Making it possible is required by law. Making it non-annoying is not, but I'm not required to wade through a complex or whiny "are you really really sure you want to quit, for reals?" process.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
it is possible there's a shy Trump contingent.I would say it's extremely likely, actually. Many Republicans would be embarrassed to say they're voting for Trump but do it anyway. I doubt it's going to make any difference to the final result, though.
posted by Coventry at 8:31 AM on October 25, 2016
I said it's misleading, because it is. Nobody has counted any votes.
How is it misleading when the article is very clear that they're referring to exactly what it is, votes by registered Dems. Said by a senior Florida Dem strategist, to inform other Dems curious about Dem turnout in Florida.
posted by chris24 at 8:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
How is it misleading when the article is very clear that they're referring to exactly what it is, votes by registered Dems. Said by a senior Florida Dem strategist, to inform other Dems curious about Dem turnout in Florida.
posted by chris24 at 8:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
there are multiple competing algos based on different ostensibly non-partisan principals. Even if you take that approach, humans have to decide which to use, while taking into account how elections in most states are administered on the county level.
Absolutely. That's why there would need to be a discussion about how best to set up a system before implementing it and then verify that the software does what it's supposed to do. It would require both parties to come to some agreement on the basic format to follow, independent analysts to check the software and some larger conversations with voters and lawyers to make sure the process is fair for all and legal. It wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think it might be the best one in the long term if those conditions can be met.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:34 AM on October 25, 2016
Absolutely. That's why there would need to be a discussion about how best to set up a system before implementing it and then verify that the software does what it's supposed to do. It would require both parties to come to some agreement on the basic format to follow, independent analysts to check the software and some larger conversations with voters and lawyers to make sure the process is fair for all and legal. It wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think it might be the best one in the long term if those conditions can be met.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:34 AM on October 25, 2016
Mod note: Seems like the "what do these Florida early voting numbers mean" thing has been clarified; no point going around in circles on how people were reacting to it before that clarification.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
After reading the responses to my question about what the public can do to influence Clinton's decisions and stances once she's elected, I'm feeling like a huge problem with American democracy is the fact that there's no good way of actually holding politicians accountable in between elections. The citizenry is supposed to be the president's boss, essentially, and yet once the president has the job there isn't really a mechanism for giving us any say in how they do that job. Donating to lobbyists while living in a constant state of civil disobedience and protest isn't really a workable solution; if those are our main tools, then the system is already broken.
I've been hearing the argument all through this election cycle that we all need to collectively hustle Hillary Clinton across the finish line as fast as possible while avoiding asking any questions that might turn voters away from her, and then put pressure on her once she's in office to act more in accordance with our desires. However, I'm increasingly unsure what the second part of that plan is supposed to look like. I'm starting to think that not only is there not a plan, there isn't even a plausible mechanism for enacting one. How can the citizenry apply pressure to a sitting president in order to influence her policymaking?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I've been hearing the argument all through this election cycle that we all need to collectively hustle Hillary Clinton across the finish line as fast as possible while avoiding asking any questions that might turn voters away from her, and then put pressure on her once she's in office to act more in accordance with our desires. However, I'm increasingly unsure what the second part of that plan is supposed to look like. I'm starting to think that not only is there not a plan, there isn't even a plausible mechanism for enacting one. How can the citizenry apply pressure to a sitting president in order to influence her policymaking?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Anybody else get NYTimes news alerts on their phone? Because I was just driving home from the store (I was out of coffee, an untenable situation), and at a stoplight I saw a news alert pop up on my phone that said, "An extraordinary look at Donald Trump's psyche: We obtained hours of interviews that reveal his fear of failure and embarrassment."
Reader, I LOL'ed. Super hard.
posted by palomar at 8:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
Reader, I LOL'ed. Super hard.
posted by palomar at 8:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
I've answered four calls that were real polls, not push polls. In all four, I was asked about my involvement in the media or in political campaigns.
In two of them, the question was phrased, "Do you work for [media/political campaigns]?" and I answered that I volunteer for political campaigns. I was disqualified from participating in those two polls.
In the other two, the question was phrased, "Are you employed by [media/political campaigns]?" and I answered no, because I don't get a paycheck, just walking door to door. I was allowed to participate in those polls.
I want to participate in the polls just to see what they are asking, but I don't want to lie about it.
[The two polls I answered were 1) in-depth questions about my knowledge of our Governor candidates in MO and 2) the tobacco companies that sponsor Amendment 3 on the MO ballot wanted to focus-group their pitch. That was hard to answer because they read a list of pitches and each asked me, "Would that make you more or less likely to vote for the amendment?" Since I will never ever vote for that amendment (because they shoehorned in some anti-abortion language, etc.) I decided to answer "less likely" to every single pitch but it was not possible to know if I was helping or hurting my cause that way. And this is probably why they don't want me to answer the polls.]
posted by aabbbiee at 8:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
In two of them, the question was phrased, "Do you work for [media/political campaigns]?" and I answered that I volunteer for political campaigns. I was disqualified from participating in those two polls.
In the other two, the question was phrased, "Are you employed by [media/political campaigns]?" and I answered no, because I don't get a paycheck, just walking door to door. I was allowed to participate in those polls.
I want to participate in the polls just to see what they are asking, but I don't want to lie about it.
[The two polls I answered were 1) in-depth questions about my knowledge of our Governor candidates in MO and 2) the tobacco companies that sponsor Amendment 3 on the MO ballot wanted to focus-group their pitch. That was hard to answer because they read a list of pitches and each asked me, "Would that make you more or less likely to vote for the amendment?" Since I will never ever vote for that amendment (because they shoehorned in some anti-abortion language, etc.) I decided to answer "less likely" to every single pitch but it was not possible to know if I was helping or hurting my cause that way. And this is probably why they don't want me to answer the polls.]
posted by aabbbiee at 8:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Man, I really don't like early reporting of turn out results or anything of that nature. It just makes me feel there is a real possibility that info will change voter results as people respond to the news. I'm not a huge fan of all these damn polls either, for that matter, but such is the age we live in I guess.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 8:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
There's a pretty silly exercise in pure speculation on 538 right now called You’ll Likely Be Reading One Of These 5 Articles The Day After The Election. Those familiar with their usual "Given k real numbers x1, x2, ..., xk, and any real number y, either y is less than all of the x's, greater than all the x's, or between some two" articles will know what to expect. The funny part was that the first hypothetical article, the one where Hillary wins in such a landslide that she even takes Texas, says that the Democrats come "within five seats of retaking the House, throwing Paul Ryan’s future as speaker into doubt." I like how even in our wildest fantasies, the Democrats still can't take the House.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
538: Trust Us: Politicians Keep Most Of Their Promises
WaPo: Contrary to popular belief, politicians often keep campaign promises
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
WaPo: Contrary to popular belief, politicians often keep campaign promises
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
How can the citizenry apply pressure to a sitting president in order to influence her policymaking?
Mostly through your representatives since they'd be the ones to apply direct pressure by writing the legislation or voting for or against whatever comes up. On foreign policy there is perhaps less we can do, but I'm undecided how good or bad that is since foreign policy involves so many more moving pieces for each decision, many of which are largely opaque to the voters. I don't mean that as a good thing, just a more complicated one.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mostly through your representatives since they'd be the ones to apply direct pressure by writing the legislation or voting for or against whatever comes up. On foreign policy there is perhaps less we can do, but I'm undecided how good or bad that is since foreign policy involves so many more moving pieces for each decision, many of which are largely opaque to the voters. I don't mean that as a good thing, just a more complicated one.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Many Republicans would be embarrassed to say they're voting for Trump but do it anyway.
I expect there will be a detectable trend in the reverse, too, though. People who are willing to say they support Trump, people for whom the socially desirable answer is to support Trump, but when they're alone with their Lord in the voting booth maybe can't quite do it. I also suspect there's a nontrivial number of people who are willing to vote for Trump but only if he loses (like some Brexit-leavers seem to have done).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I expect there will be a detectable trend in the reverse, too, though. People who are willing to say they support Trump, people for whom the socially desirable answer is to support Trump, but when they're alone with their Lord in the voting booth maybe can't quite do it. I also suspect there's a nontrivial number of people who are willing to vote for Trump but only if he loses (like some Brexit-leavers seem to have done).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK, but what about for something like the Dakota Access pipeline, where what I (and lots of other people) really want is an executive order to stop the construction, like yesterday? There is already a massive ongoing protest which is being essentially ignored by both the politicians and the media. What else can be done from within the system to let the president know that "Hey, a lot of people actually hate what you're doing and want you to make it stop. It's not just a bunch of protesters out on the political fringes, normal people are also angered and disgusted by this and we want you to end it?" Do we have a voice there, or does the fact that there's only one viable choice for president in this election (and also the fact that the media, both presidential candidates, and the sitting president are all totally silent on this) mean that the public just doesn't get a say on this issue?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
> Contrary to popular belief, politicians often keep campaign promises
The upside of a first-past-the-post system: no coalition compromises.
The downside: everything else.
posted by farlukar at 8:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The upside of a first-past-the-post system: no coalition compromises.
The downside: everything else.
posted by farlukar at 8:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
(In no way should the above comment be taken to mean that I don't think protesters are normal people. I would re-word that if I could but I don't think I can do it within the approved usage guidelines for the edit window.)
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:52 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:52 AM on October 25, 2016
there's no good way of actually holding politicians accountable in between elections. The citizenry is supposed to be the president's boss, essentially, and yet once the president has the job there isn't really a mechanism for giving us any say in how they do that job.
To quote every second Microsoft knowledge base article about ridiculous misfeatures in their systems: this behavior is by design.
posted by flabdablet at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2016
To quote every second Microsoft knowledge base article about ridiculous misfeatures in their systems: this behavior is by design.
posted by flabdablet at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2016
Many Republicans would be embarrassed to say they're voting for Trump but do it anyway.
There’s No Evidence Of The ‘Bradley Effect’ In Trump Polls
He actually underperformed polls in the primaries.
posted by chris24 at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
There’s No Evidence Of The ‘Bradley Effect’ In Trump Polls
He actually underperformed polls in the primaries.
posted by chris24 at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
However, I'm increasingly unsure what the second part of that plan is supposed to look like...How can the citizenry apply pressure to a sitting president in order to influence her policymaking?
It looks like this.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, the House. The reason the House is so incredibly unfavorable to Democrats is because of gerrymandering. But it's possible that in the next four years - IF we take the Senate and are able to place a liberal justice on the Supreme Court - we could see changes to that. Two racial gerrymandering cases are going to be heard in the next term, and there is a partisan gerrymandering case working its way through the federal courts.
From June: Supreme Court Takes Up Two Gerrymandering Cases for October Term
The Supreme Court yesterday took up a case challenging North Carolina lawmakers' use of race while redrawing the state's congressional districts in 2011. The case, McCrory v. Harris, is an appeal by the state challenging a lower court finding that two districts were illegally packed with black voters. It joins another racial redistricting case already on the court's docket out of Virginia, Bethune Hill v. Virginia Board of Elections; the district court in that case found no illegal gerrymandering to have occurred. Rick Hasen, of the Election Law Blog, reports that the Court is likely to hear the cases together.
(By 'October term' they mean the term which begins in October 2016 and proceeds to June or July 2017.)
And then there's this one, a case which will be heard in the federal courts and might proceed to the Supreme Court afterward: Maryland redistricting lawsuit can go forward, federal judges rule
A lawsuit challenging Maryland’s contorted congressional district map on First Amendment grounds has merit and should go forward, a three-judge federal panel ruled Wednesday. The map, drawn by Maryland’s Democratic lawmakers following the 2010 Census, essentially ensured that seven of the state’s eight congressional seats would be under their party’s control.
The suit, brought by Steve Shapiro, an American University law student, presents a novel argument: that the gerrymandered map violated the rights of 6th District Republican voters to political association and expression. It asks that the state be barred from using the map in any future elections...
Michael Kimberly, Shapiro’s attorney, said that if his client prevails at trial, and the case ends up back in the Supreme Court, it could eventually bring sweeping changes to redistricting across the country. “This could be the biggest gerrymandering case in a generation,” Kimberly said. “It could have enormous impact.”
THIS IS WHY THE REPUBLICANS ARE INSISTING THAT THEY CONTROL THE SUPREME COURT. This is why they are refusing to even give hearings to Obama's nominee. Not because of abortion. Not because of guns. Not even because of big business. They are doing this because if a Democratic president puts another justice on the Supreme Court, there is a very good chance that dozens upon dozens of extreme right-wing Republican House members in gerrymandered-to-hell districts will suddenly need to fight on a fair playing field, and they are worried they will lose.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [147 favorites]
From June: Supreme Court Takes Up Two Gerrymandering Cases for October Term
The Supreme Court yesterday took up a case challenging North Carolina lawmakers' use of race while redrawing the state's congressional districts in 2011. The case, McCrory v. Harris, is an appeal by the state challenging a lower court finding that two districts were illegally packed with black voters. It joins another racial redistricting case already on the court's docket out of Virginia, Bethune Hill v. Virginia Board of Elections; the district court in that case found no illegal gerrymandering to have occurred. Rick Hasen, of the Election Law Blog, reports that the Court is likely to hear the cases together.
(By 'October term' they mean the term which begins in October 2016 and proceeds to June or July 2017.)
And then there's this one, a case which will be heard in the federal courts and might proceed to the Supreme Court afterward: Maryland redistricting lawsuit can go forward, federal judges rule
A lawsuit challenging Maryland’s contorted congressional district map on First Amendment grounds has merit and should go forward, a three-judge federal panel ruled Wednesday. The map, drawn by Maryland’s Democratic lawmakers following the 2010 Census, essentially ensured that seven of the state’s eight congressional seats would be under their party’s control.
The suit, brought by Steve Shapiro, an American University law student, presents a novel argument: that the gerrymandered map violated the rights of 6th District Republican voters to political association and expression. It asks that the state be barred from using the map in any future elections...
Michael Kimberly, Shapiro’s attorney, said that if his client prevails at trial, and the case ends up back in the Supreme Court, it could eventually bring sweeping changes to redistricting across the country. “This could be the biggest gerrymandering case in a generation,” Kimberly said. “It could have enormous impact.”
THIS IS WHY THE REPUBLICANS ARE INSISTING THAT THEY CONTROL THE SUPREME COURT. This is why they are refusing to even give hearings to Obama's nominee. Not because of abortion. Not because of guns. Not even because of big business. They are doing this because if a Democratic president puts another justice on the Supreme Court, there is a very good chance that dozens upon dozens of extreme right-wing Republican House members in gerrymandered-to-hell districts will suddenly need to fight on a fair playing field, and they are worried they will lose.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [147 favorites]
What Kills Republicans in Presidential Elections Works for Them in Most Other Elections
But why are we even having this discussion? The GOP will continue to be the party of lies because being the party of lies works -- for fat-cat donors, for the bottom lines of conservative media outlets, and, yes, for the party itself ... in most non-presidential elections.posted by tonycpsu at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
[...]
What's supposedly killing the GOP is killing the GOP only in presidential races, and in the occasional Senate or House race. The party gets in trouble only in races with seriously contested primaries. In such races, consumers of a lot of right-wing media propaganda seek a candidate who's mean, ornery, outraged, and uncompromising. In those races, either the crazy, extreme candidate wins or a not-so-crazy, not-so-extreme candidate has to tack to the crazy, extreme right in order to survive.
But in most races, that doesn't happen. Either there's no primary or the establishment choice survives the primary by being, at worst, acceptably extreme. That works just fine for general elections in red states (and many purple ones), and certainly works in carefully crafted red House districts.
It just doesn't work in presidential races. In part that's because they're so long, which means the primary process exposes us to more than a year of Republican crazy. In part it's because they're so public. And, beyond that, it's because Democratic voters actually show up for presidential elections. (They don't show up for other elections.)
Not sure what you're trying to get at there, kirkaracha. Can you elaborate?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016
there's no good way of actually holding politicians accountable in between elections. The citizenry is supposed to be the president's boss, essentially, and yet once the president has the job there isn't really a mechanism for giving us any say in how they do that job.
That's pretty much in the definition of a representative democracy. You elect the people that you think will do the best job and then vote them out at the end of their term if you don't like what they've done.
posted by octothorpe at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's pretty much in the definition of a representative democracy. You elect the people that you think will do the best job and then vote them out at the end of their term if you don't like what they've done.
posted by octothorpe at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
How can the citizenry apply pressure to a sitting president in order to influence her policymaking?
Why turnout matters, even in true-blue districts: Large margins of victory make politicians more responsive to progressive goals: A new study shows that turnout affects how Democratic politicians vote on issues
"They find instead that Democratic politicians use the information of their vote margin to adjust their votes: a loss in vote share leads Democrats to vote in a more conservative way than they would have otherwise. They find, “a 2.5% Democratic loss results in an average 12.8 switches per incumbent.”
posted by chris24 at 8:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [46 favorites]
Why turnout matters, even in true-blue districts: Large margins of victory make politicians more responsive to progressive goals: A new study shows that turnout affects how Democratic politicians vote on issues
"They find instead that Democratic politicians use the information of their vote margin to adjust their votes: a loss in vote share leads Democrats to vote in a more conservative way than they would have otherwise. They find, “a 2.5% Democratic loss results in an average 12.8 switches per incumbent.”
posted by chris24 at 8:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [46 favorites]
"Love Trumps Hate" would have been a great Orwellian slogan for the Trump campaign.
Yeah, unbelievable this comes from the Clinton campaign.
First of all, it's a slogan that only mentions the other candidate's name.
Secondly, there are some disturbing alternative interpretations, such as "You really should LOVE TRUMP'S HATE!"
It's a goddamn Trojan horse!
WTF Clinton campaign?
posted by sour cream at 9:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, unbelievable this comes from the Clinton campaign.
First of all, it's a slogan that only mentions the other candidate's name.
Secondly, there are some disturbing alternative interpretations, such as "You really should LOVE TRUMP'S HATE!"
It's a goddamn Trojan horse!
WTF Clinton campaign?
posted by sour cream at 9:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not sure what you're trying to get at there, kirkaracha. Can you elaborate?
If we don't like the job the president is doing we can run someone else in 2020.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dem women poised for record gains in Trump backlash
The irony is that Donald Trump may result in Democratic women having their best year ever.posted by kirkaracha at 9:05 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
...
It’s not just Hillary Clinton, who would of course be the first female president if she defeats him, or Nancy Pelosi, who has a slim chance of reclaiming the speaker’s gavel if enough Republican seats get sunk by Trump. In many of their most competitive races, Democrats are poised to win House and Senate seats that could easily bring the number of women to new levels in both chambers, along with potentially two female governors winning their first elections.
> Not sure what you're trying to get at there, kirkaracha. Can you elaborate?
If we don't like the job the president is doing we can run someone else in 2020.
But why are you illustrating that point with the campaign button of someone who was assassinated?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
If we don't like the job the president is doing we can run someone else in 2020.
But why are you illustrating that point with the campaign button of someone who was assassinated?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK, so then the problem comes back to the political system again. There isn't a candidate who represents my views on the environment, energy, or foreign policy—three of the areas that matter most to me. There also isn't a candidate who represents Native American concerns, nor is there a candidate who isn't totally fine with having a media blackout on a massive, ongoing protest in which police are routinely brutalizing peaceful protesters. That's tyrant shit right there, and from where I stand both options do look equally bad on that issue.
Representative democracy is only legitimate if citizens have a chance to vote for representatives who actually represent them. Don't get me wrong, I like some of what Hillary has to say—I appreciate that she is taking on income inequality in at least a sort of lukewarm way (I have zero hope that she's going to fight for the kind of major, systemic changes that I see as being actually needed) and I've heard that she has some plans to reform the political process, which honestly is my number one dream issue since so much else hinges on that. But meanwhile there are other things that Washington is doing that are like daggers in my heart when I think about them, and I don't feel like the voters get any say in whether those issues even get to be talked about.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Representative democracy is only legitimate if citizens have a chance to vote for representatives who actually represent them. Don't get me wrong, I like some of what Hillary has to say—I appreciate that she is taking on income inequality in at least a sort of lukewarm way (I have zero hope that she's going to fight for the kind of major, systemic changes that I see as being actually needed) and I've heard that she has some plans to reform the political process, which honestly is my number one dream issue since so much else hinges on that. But meanwhile there are other things that Washington is doing that are like daggers in my heart when I think about them, and I don't feel like the voters get any say in whether those issues even get to be talked about.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
From the GOPpo oppo gossip mill: Rick Wilson linked to the Daily Beast piece on Trump's coke'n'models parties with "cc: Evangelical Trumpites... That's the shot. Now wait for the chaser. It's worth it." and that the chaser is expected later this week. He's left enough breadcrumbs on this one to know where it's headed.
Liz Mair, on the other hand, said it wasn't one of the two big oppo stories she expected to appear, but that one of them requires someone to violate a TrumpOrg NDA, and the threat to sue all and sundry has raised the stakes there.
If I were in possession of big oppo, I'd plan on running it an hour or two before Trump's ribbon-cutting ceremony at the DC hotel tomorrow morning.
posted by holgate at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Liz Mair, on the other hand, said it wasn't one of the two big oppo stories she expected to appear, but that one of them requires someone to violate a TrumpOrg NDA, and the threat to sue all and sundry has raised the stakes there.
If I were in possession of big oppo, I'd plan on running it an hour or two before Trump's ribbon-cutting ceremony at the DC hotel tomorrow morning.
posted by holgate at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
>> there's no good way of actually holding politicians accountable in between elections. The citizenry is supposed to be the president's boss, essentially, and yet once the president has the job there isn't really a mechanism for giving us any say in how they do that job.
> That's pretty much in the definition of a representative democracy. You elect the people that you think will do the best job and then vote them out at the end of their term if you don't like what they've done.
posted by octothorpe at 8:56 AM on October 25 [1 favorite +] [!]
That model:
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:08 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
> That's pretty much in the definition of a representative democracy. You elect the people that you think will do the best job and then vote them out at the end of their term if you don't like what they've done.
posted by octothorpe at 8:56 AM on October 25 [1 favorite +] [!]
That model:
- leaves out basically all political participation.
- Does not accurately reflect actually any actually existing system of governance.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:08 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
WTF Clinton campaign?
Short, clear, great callback to MLK Jr quote while explicitly identifying what Trump is doing as spreading hate, and hanging it around his neck.
I'm a big fan, and based on the distribution of signs I've seen in person in my city, I'd say "Love Trumps Hate" is a pretty popular one.
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Short, clear, great callback to MLK Jr quote while explicitly identifying what Trump is doing as spreading hate, and hanging it around his neck.
I'm a big fan, and based on the distribution of signs I've seen in person in my city, I'd say "Love Trumps Hate" is a pretty popular one.
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
I feel like I'm starting to dominate so I'll back off for a while after this, but re: writing letters to our elected officials, has anybody seen any kind of study regarding the efficacy of that? It's always seemed to me like you might as well whisper your concerns into a hole in the ground, for all the good it'll do.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:11 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:11 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
From the GOPpo oppo gossip mill
Goppo oppo goppo
That is FUN to say
posted by schadenfrau at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Goppo oppo goppo
That is FUN to say
posted by schadenfrau at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
> Representative democracy is only legitimate if citizens have a chance to vote for representatives who actually represent them. Don't get me wrong, I like some of what Hillary has to say—I appreciate that she is taking on income inequality in at least a sort of lukewarm way (I have zero hope that she's going to fight for the kind of major, systemic changes that I see as being actually needed) and I've heard that she has some plans to reform the political process, which honestly is my number one dream issue since so much else hinges on that. But meanwhile there are other things that Washington is doing that are like daggers in my heart when I think about them, and I don't feel like the voters get any say in whether those issues even get to be talked about.
We don't live in a meaningfully representative democracy, and our political action has to take that into account. Like, basically the only mental frame that keeps me going involves diligently avoiding making normative claims about what America should be, or mourning the fact that America isn't what it could be, and instead focusing on what can be done within actually existing America.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
We don't live in a meaningfully representative democracy, and our political action has to take that into account. Like, basically the only mental frame that keeps me going involves diligently avoiding making normative claims about what America should be, or mourning the fact that America isn't what it could be, and instead focusing on what can be done within actually existing America.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've got two Love Trumps Hate buttons. They say, "I'm not just blindly pushing a D button, I am taking action against a message of hatred."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
That leaked trump interview dump is really, really pathetic. No internal life, no intellectual curiosity, easily embarrassed in any defeat, a love for fighting and conflict because of an abusive childhood (at least that seems like the sort of atmosphere inculcated by the military school he went to). No shame, no doubt, utterly addicted to publicity and being in the media. Seemingly loveless because of all of the above. An awful man, from top to bottom. A pure extrusion of white, male privilege, and unearned wealth. The best thing we could do after this election would be to forget that he ever existed.
posted by codacorolla at 9:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [52 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 9:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [52 favorites]
Biden speaking is the greatest indication of this election having a misogynist handicap. If he was running the Republicans would be looking at a complete wipeout. Like Mondale level wipeout.
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
> I recall reading somewhere that the start of obstructionism coincided with some pork reduction measures.
Yes, the so-called "death of earmarks". Like term limits, the elimination of earmarks is an idea that sounds great in principle, but in actual practice has terrible outcomes.
When you are trying to make a deal among disparate parties who do not share common outlook or goals, you must have some lowest common denominator that is valuable to both parties that can become a basis for a deal. You may not agree on your philosophy of government or the economy, but everyone can agree that a dollar is worth a dollar.
Money is in fact one of the most useful common denominators that can be used to bring over those last few votes needed to actually get legislation passed. It isn't going to work to bring someone over who is 90% opposed to a certain piece of legislation. But let's say you are 90% in support of a bill but just can't swallow the final 10%. Bringing in something that you actually can support, such as a project in your home district that is widely supported by your constituents, may tip the balance just enough to earn your vote.
The end result is that a system that includes earmarks is less polarized, because there is a system in place to bring fence-sitters over to one side or the other. So, a system without earmarks becomes more polarized.
A lot of the railing against earmarks was along the lines of "they are budget-busting". But earmarks are a very, very small percentage of the budget. Completely eliminating them didn't have any noticeable effect on the budget at all. (In fact because it makes it harder to make bipartisan budget deals, you end up with government shutdowns and this type of BS that almost certainly costs more than the earmarks themselves do.)
And finally, as mentioned upthread, earmarks are almost always priority projects from communities in the district of the member of Congress. The earmark maybe fast tracks them a bit. But in a bunch of years working at the local level on these types of projects, I really never saw any earmark funding that wasn't for programs or projects that were already in the pipeline and that wouldn't have (eventually) been funded anyway.
Elected representatives want to bring projects to their district that have widespread support there. Earmarks helped members of Congress do that while also greasing the wheels of the legislative process so that deals could actually be made on difficult legislation and issues.
Eliminating earmarks stopped (or slowed) that type of project while making it almost impossible for Congress to make the type of deals needed to actually move legislation forward.
TL;DR: Earmarks are pretty certainly a net positive--a small price you pay that helps the whole system work a lot better. And the projects earmarks fund are usually not terrible either--they are usually identified priority projects within the member of Congress's district.
posted by flug at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2016 [80 favorites]
Yes, the so-called "death of earmarks". Like term limits, the elimination of earmarks is an idea that sounds great in principle, but in actual practice has terrible outcomes.
When you are trying to make a deal among disparate parties who do not share common outlook or goals, you must have some lowest common denominator that is valuable to both parties that can become a basis for a deal. You may not agree on your philosophy of government or the economy, but everyone can agree that a dollar is worth a dollar.
Money is in fact one of the most useful common denominators that can be used to bring over those last few votes needed to actually get legislation passed. It isn't going to work to bring someone over who is 90% opposed to a certain piece of legislation. But let's say you are 90% in support of a bill but just can't swallow the final 10%. Bringing in something that you actually can support, such as a project in your home district that is widely supported by your constituents, may tip the balance just enough to earn your vote.
The end result is that a system that includes earmarks is less polarized, because there is a system in place to bring fence-sitters over to one side or the other. So, a system without earmarks becomes more polarized.
A lot of the railing against earmarks was along the lines of "they are budget-busting". But earmarks are a very, very small percentage of the budget. Completely eliminating them didn't have any noticeable effect on the budget at all. (In fact because it makes it harder to make bipartisan budget deals, you end up with government shutdowns and this type of BS that almost certainly costs more than the earmarks themselves do.)
And finally, as mentioned upthread, earmarks are almost always priority projects from communities in the district of the member of Congress. The earmark maybe fast tracks them a bit. But in a bunch of years working at the local level on these types of projects, I really never saw any earmark funding that wasn't for programs or projects that were already in the pipeline and that wouldn't have (eventually) been funded anyway.
Elected representatives want to bring projects to their district that have widespread support there. Earmarks helped members of Congress do that while also greasing the wheels of the legislative process so that deals could actually be made on difficult legislation and issues.
Eliminating earmarks stopped (or slowed) that type of project while making it almost impossible for Congress to make the type of deals needed to actually move legislation forward.
TL;DR: Earmarks are pretty certainly a net positive--a small price you pay that helps the whole system work a lot better. And the projects earmarks fund are usually not terrible either--they are usually identified priority projects within the member of Congress's district.
posted by flug at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2016 [80 favorites]
A pure extrusion of white, male privilege, and unearned wealth. The best thing we could do after this election would be to forget that he ever existed.
No we should never forget that the institutional Republican Party, happily, enthusiastically, embraced every last bit of Trump's pathetic awfulness.
They tried to make him President of the United States. They never, ever, get the luxury of all of rest of us just forgetting.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 AM on October 25, 2016 [74 favorites]
No we should never forget that the institutional Republican Party, happily, enthusiastically, embraced every last bit of Trump's pathetic awfulness.
They tried to make him President of the United States. They never, ever, get the luxury of all of rest of us just forgetting.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:22 AM on October 25, 2016 [74 favorites]
I'm not putting a ton of stock in these elevated early voting numbers yet, it could be Democrats are more motivated to get it over with, and not necessarily predictive of total turnout.
Increased D numbers might very well be this. Reduced R numbers from previous years suggest R's disgusted by their nominee are staying home.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Increased D numbers might very well be this. Reduced R numbers from previous years suggest R's disgusted by their nominee are staying home.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking of walking down by the Old Post Office in DC tomorrow. The ribbon cutting isn't open to the public, but I assume there will be protests or something outside the building.
posted by humanfont at 9:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 9:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Didn't he already do a big opening the DC hotel hoo-hah like ten thousand years ago that suckered the press in and then they en masse turned against him?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The difficulty with Native American concerns is that they are often framed as being opposed to "our" interests since they are often challenging the US government on treaty rights or Native lands, things that, in this framing, either do not belong to most US citizens or which "they" are trying to take from us or in someway change our government to suit their tribal desires. The othering of the Native Americans is so strong that they are virtually invisible in media and in conversation about politics. To get better response for their concerns it would help to make more people aware of them and make it understood these aren't "just" Native American concerns, they have bearing on all our lives. Finding a way to get more media coverage would be a good start, either traditional media or otherwise, impressing the importance of the argument on your representatives helps to show some of their constituency cares about these issues, and just spreading the word and maybe protesting when it seems helpful.
Sadly though there are some issues that will continue to fall by the margins just because they are viewed as fringe demands. Some of that is natural, I mean it is a big country with many complex issues that need attention and that makes it difficult to get traction on all the issues people would like to see addressed, but some of it is just bias and that takes a lot of effort to overcome since people have a lot invested in maintaining their world view as it is and working from that perspective. We need to find allies and keep talking about the things that matter and do what we can to sell our interests as ones too important to ignore even if that takes time and doesn't always go how we'd like in the end.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Sadly though there are some issues that will continue to fall by the margins just because they are viewed as fringe demands. Some of that is natural, I mean it is a big country with many complex issues that need attention and that makes it difficult to get traction on all the issues people would like to see addressed, but some of it is just bias and that takes a lot of effort to overcome since people have a lot invested in maintaining their world view as it is and working from that perspective. We need to find allies and keep talking about the things that matter and do what we can to sell our interests as ones too important to ignore even if that takes time and doesn't always go how we'd like in the end.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
@jeneps
Khizr Khan is headlining three events in military-heavy Norfolk, Va., tomorrow, including a visit to a mosque with local leaders & veterans
posted by chris24 at 9:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Khizr Khan is headlining three events in military-heavy Norfolk, Va., tomorrow, including a visit to a mosque with local leaders & veterans
posted by chris24 at 9:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
The point about Robert Kennedy is that he started running (right after Eugene McCarthy) in 1968 BEFORE Johnson decided to drop out. Their success in early polls and primaries definitely led at least in part to LBJ backing out. The suggestion is that in 2020 if what HRC is doing is very unpopular, either a challenger who could actually win an election could appear in the Ds or a very inspiring Green or Independent left wing challenger could be fielded, causing her and the establishment to at least sweat and spend a lot.
The key that most liberals don't get YET I think is how to make people in the middle care about specific liberal policies in non-presidential election years. Actually I am very hopeful about that. Millennials are way more detail oriented than my generation, and way more informed in the minutia of day to day political activity. The question to me is then: what will the issues be that the most pressure is applied on? For Obama it was Social Security and Gay Marriage, and of course health care.
There needs to be a battle not just to GOTV during midterms but for defining the agenda before the midterms. Will it be peace internationally? Trade? Social injustice? Income inequality? It won't be all of the above, so if you care about one more than the other, prepare your best rhethoric and strategy and start oiling the engines.
In 1968 there was an abysmal war being perpetrated by the government, which everyone, no matter what other issues they might hold dear, found abhorrent. I'd submit that income inequality could be HRC's vietnam, unless she keeps the promises she made to Bernie fans in the Convention. But I don't just get to say that, I have to donate time money and energy to getting a large number of voters to agree.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
The key that most liberals don't get YET I think is how to make people in the middle care about specific liberal policies in non-presidential election years. Actually I am very hopeful about that. Millennials are way more detail oriented than my generation, and way more informed in the minutia of day to day political activity. The question to me is then: what will the issues be that the most pressure is applied on? For Obama it was Social Security and Gay Marriage, and of course health care.
There needs to be a battle not just to GOTV during midterms but for defining the agenda before the midterms. Will it be peace internationally? Trade? Social injustice? Income inequality? It won't be all of the above, so if you care about one more than the other, prepare your best rhethoric and strategy and start oiling the engines.
In 1968 there was an abysmal war being perpetrated by the government, which everyone, no matter what other issues they might hold dear, found abhorrent. I'd submit that income inequality could be HRC's vietnam, unless she keeps the promises she made to Bernie fans in the Convention. But I don't just get to say that, I have to donate time money and energy to getting a large number of voters to agree.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
re: writing letters to our elected officials, has anybody seen any kind of study regarding the efficacy of that?
On the US House or Senate level, form groups or join existing groups. If you're a House member with a two-year term and 750,000 people in your district and you're fundraising and legislating and campaigning, then you have about 10 seconds per constituent per term. Most constituents won't need that 10 seconds, but the ongoing calculation here is cost/benefit: "what kind of political benefit is worth an hour of my time, or my DC office's time, or my district office's time?"
If you can assemble a decent-sized group behind a specific policy or legislative issue, then you can open doors and get beyond canned responses. That sounds cynical, but it's mostly about scale.
posted by holgate at 9:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
On the US House or Senate level, form groups or join existing groups. If you're a House member with a two-year term and 750,000 people in your district and you're fundraising and legislating and campaigning, then you have about 10 seconds per constituent per term. Most constituents won't need that 10 seconds, but the ongoing calculation here is cost/benefit: "what kind of political benefit is worth an hour of my time, or my DC office's time, or my district office's time?"
If you can assemble a decent-sized group behind a specific policy or legislative issue, then you can open doors and get beyond canned responses. That sounds cynical, but it's mostly about scale.
posted by holgate at 9:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Gerald Daugherty, the TX politician in that gosh-darn folksy bumblin' hubby ad fought tooth and nail against light rail in Austin in 2000. He's got a place of honor on my "Fuck that guy" list, and if you've ever tried to get around via public transport in ATX or sat in gridlocked traffic at 2pm on a Wednesday, may I recommend adding him to yours?
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 9:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [48 favorites]
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 9:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [48 favorites]
> The point about Robert Kennedy is that he started running (right after Eugene McCarthy) in 1968
Emphasis added. Us Clean for Gene types never got over RFK's opportunistic decision to jump in and grab the glory.
posted by languagehat at 9:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Emphasis added. Us Clean for Gene types never got over RFK's opportunistic decision to jump in and grab the glory.
posted by languagehat at 9:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
re: writing letters to our elected officials, has anybody seen any kind of study regarding the efficacy of that?
Also, remember that what you're trading is votes for action. The Bernie Bros politically evicerated themselves by declaring that no matter what Clinton did, they weren't going to vote for her. The logical response from her POV is "Fine, I'll do whatever I want then." If you phone banked or canvassed, mention it. Now you're a vote multiplier and worth more than 10 seconds.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Also, remember that what you're trading is votes for action. The Bernie Bros politically evicerated themselves by declaring that no matter what Clinton did, they weren't going to vote for her. The logical response from her POV is "Fine, I'll do whatever I want then." If you phone banked or canvassed, mention it. Now you're a vote multiplier and worth more than 10 seconds.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
A great ad that not only highlights Trump's racism, but also Kaine's past as a civil rights lawyer.
@HillaryClinton
When a black tenant applied for an apartment in one of Trump's buildings, she was told it wasn't available.
A white tenant got that unit. [video]
posted by chris24 at 9:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
@HillaryClinton
When a black tenant applied for an apartment in one of Trump's buildings, she was told it wasn't available.
A white tenant got that unit. [video]
posted by chris24 at 9:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
and small furry creatures from alpha centauri were small furry creatures from alpha centauri
Until they tapped each and every one of us on the shoulder and said "Whoa, buddy, you are in no condition to drive -- we're taking the keys."
Oh, wait, my bad -- that's next year....
posted by y2karl at 9:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Until they tapped each and every one of us on the shoulder and said "Whoa, buddy, you are in no condition to drive -- we're taking the keys."
Oh, wait, my bad -- that's next year....
posted by y2karl at 9:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Emphasis added. Us Clean for Gene types never got over RFK's opportunistic decision to jump in and grab the glory.
Given Ted Kennedy was at least partly responsible for destroying Jimmy Carter's re-election chances by taking the primary all the way to the floor of the convention against a sitting President I sometimes wonder about that family.
posted by Francis at 9:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Given Ted Kennedy was at least partly responsible for destroying Jimmy Carter's re-election chances by taking the primary all the way to the floor of the convention against a sitting President I sometimes wonder about that family.
posted by Francis at 9:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
That leaked trump interview dump is really, really pathetic. No internal life, no intellectual curiosity.... No shame, no doubt, utterly addicted to publicity and being in the media. Seemingly loveless because of all of the above. An awful man, from top to bottom.
I was catching up on @onlxn's TrumpLeaks last night and realized I have a stronger sense of his [fake] Trump's interior life than I do of the actual person named Donald J. Trump. And Ellickson's Trump is deliberately written to be a parody of a candidate with no theory of mind.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I was catching up on @onlxn's TrumpLeaks last night and realized I have a stronger sense of his [fake] Trump's interior life than I do of the actual person named Donald J. Trump. And Ellickson's Trump is deliberately written to be a parody of a candidate with no theory of mind.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Given Ted Kennedy was at least partly responsible for destroying Jimmy Carter's re-election chances by taking the primary all the way to the floor of the convention against a sitting President I sometimes wonder about that family.
Oh good, I was hoping we'd get another couple rounds of Circular Firing Squad in before the election.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Oh good, I was hoping we'd get another couple rounds of Circular Firing Squad in before the election.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Re: the pipeline
Obama temporarily halted pipeline construction by flexing some legal muscle in September, but he's not a king. He can only control pipeline construction on federal lands directly; state sovereignty and their use of eminent domain on private lands is a process he has almost zero control over. The federal appeals court allowed construction to resume on October 10th.
posted by xyzzy at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Obama temporarily halted pipeline construction by flexing some legal muscle in September, but he's not a king. He can only control pipeline construction on federal lands directly; state sovereignty and their use of eminent domain on private lands is a process he has almost zero control over. The federal appeals court allowed construction to resume on October 10th.
posted by xyzzy at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Look at marriage equality as a perfect example of where political pressure was applied to an establishment that really wasn't interested in taking much action to address it to begin with (and was even supposedly against it ideologically).
You didn't need to have people write letters about the issue to alert politicians that there was a sea change of opinion happening: everyone was talking about it, writing about it, making movies about it, yelling at their relatives about it on Facebook about it.
Meanwhile behind the scenes donations were pouring into HRC and other LGBTQ organizations who were no doubt doing the usual lobbying stuff. But it was driven by sentiment, not manufactured, because of the work being done by activists (including of course just regular people who were LGBTQ) to shape popular opinion positively.
Activism works now more than ever because of the ease of communication. It's funny to me that the same tools that allow deplorables to exist only in their shrinking alternative universe of fraudulent sources also allows movements like BLM to spread truth and control & focus messaging. If BLM continues to gather strength and stay focused on pressuring politicians to enact specific criminal justice reforms, it will get done. And we can all learn from them.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
You didn't need to have people write letters about the issue to alert politicians that there was a sea change of opinion happening: everyone was talking about it, writing about it, making movies about it, yelling at their relatives about it on Facebook about it.
Meanwhile behind the scenes donations were pouring into HRC and other LGBTQ organizations who were no doubt doing the usual lobbying stuff. But it was driven by sentiment, not manufactured, because of the work being done by activists (including of course just regular people who were LGBTQ) to shape popular opinion positively.
Activism works now more than ever because of the ease of communication. It's funny to me that the same tools that allow deplorables to exist only in their shrinking alternative universe of fraudulent sources also allows movements like BLM to spread truth and control & focus messaging. If BLM continues to gather strength and stay focused on pressuring politicians to enact specific criminal justice reforms, it will get done. And we can all learn from them.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
If you can assemble a decent-sized group behind a specific policy or legislative issue, then you can open doors and get beyond canned responses. That sounds cynical, but it's mostly about scale.
I don't think it's cynical it's just how social systems generally work. Some people like to think it's about individual wants and desires but most if not all social power comes from being part of a social consensus about and idea or way of doing things. 'My views and actions have back-up' so to speak. Power in this case is neutral, neither a positive or negative thing. Its why the normalization of racist speech is occurring during this election because people feel that they have a social group that will back them up. It's also can be seen in the response to Trump's view on women. More women are speaking up about their experiences as a social consensus becomes more clear that it is not right.
I want to vote for someone who believes X and will do A B C and 500 more people agree with me just hold more potential influence. It's why activist and lobbyists form groups.
posted by Jalliah at 9:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't think it's cynical it's just how social systems generally work. Some people like to think it's about individual wants and desires but most if not all social power comes from being part of a social consensus about and idea or way of doing things. 'My views and actions have back-up' so to speak. Power in this case is neutral, neither a positive or negative thing. Its why the normalization of racist speech is occurring during this election because people feel that they have a social group that will back them up. It's also can be seen in the response to Trump's view on women. More women are speaking up about their experiences as a social consensus becomes more clear that it is not right.
I want to vote for someone who believes X and will do A B C and 500 more people agree with me just hold more potential influence. It's why activist and lobbyists form groups.
posted by Jalliah at 9:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
OK, so then the problem comes back to the political system again. There isn't a candidate who represents my views on the environment, energy, or foreign policy—three of the areas that matter most to me. There also isn't a candidate who represents Native American concerns, nor is there a candidate who isn't totally fine with having a media blackout on a massive, ongoing protest in which police are routinely brutalizing peaceful protesters. That's tyrant shit right there, and from where I stand both options do look equally bad on that issue.
Representative democracy is only legitimate if citizens have a chance to vote for representatives who actually represent them. Don't get me wrong, I like some of what Hillary has to say—I appreciate that she is taking on income inequality in at least a sort of lukewarm way (I have zero hope that she's going to fight for the kind of major, systemic changes that I see as being actually needed) and I've heard that she has some plans to reform the political process, which honestly is my number one dream issue since so much else hinges on that. But meanwhile there are other things that Washington is doing that are like daggers in my heart when I think about them, and I don't feel like the voters get any say in whether those issues even get to be talked about.
You are working off the premise that not only are you interested in stopping this pipeline but that the majority of Americans share your views. There would be a problem with representative democracy if politicians were not actually representing the majority opinion in this country. Drone strikes are popular. Fracking is popular. Keeping Guantanamo open is popular. You are not going to convince the president to adopt policies that aren't supported by the majority of the country - if they did, they'd be voted out of office next time around.
"How do we get the president to support an unpopular opinion?" is the wrong question. "How do we convince more Americans to support my opinion?" is a more relevant one. Look to the history of the gay marriage movement for guidance. Clinton signed DOMA in 1996 - a little less than two months before election day. In 2004, there were 11 ballot initiatives banning gay marriage. All 11 passed. In 2015, the Supreme Court finally ruled in favor of gay marriage. The movement learned a lot about how to sway public opinion in that time. It didn't start with convincing Clinton to veto (the veto-proof) DOMA.
posted by one_bean at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [82 favorites]
Representative democracy is only legitimate if citizens have a chance to vote for representatives who actually represent them. Don't get me wrong, I like some of what Hillary has to say—I appreciate that she is taking on income inequality in at least a sort of lukewarm way (I have zero hope that she's going to fight for the kind of major, systemic changes that I see as being actually needed) and I've heard that she has some plans to reform the political process, which honestly is my number one dream issue since so much else hinges on that. But meanwhile there are other things that Washington is doing that are like daggers in my heart when I think about them, and I don't feel like the voters get any say in whether those issues even get to be talked about.
You are working off the premise that not only are you interested in stopping this pipeline but that the majority of Americans share your views. There would be a problem with representative democracy if politicians were not actually representing the majority opinion in this country. Drone strikes are popular. Fracking is popular. Keeping Guantanamo open is popular. You are not going to convince the president to adopt policies that aren't supported by the majority of the country - if they did, they'd be voted out of office next time around.
"How do we get the president to support an unpopular opinion?" is the wrong question. "How do we convince more Americans to support my opinion?" is a more relevant one. Look to the history of the gay marriage movement for guidance. Clinton signed DOMA in 1996 - a little less than two months before election day. In 2004, there were 11 ballot initiatives banning gay marriage. All 11 passed. In 2015, the Supreme Court finally ruled in favor of gay marriage. The movement learned a lot about how to sway public opinion in that time. It didn't start with convincing Clinton to veto (the veto-proof) DOMA.
posted by one_bean at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [82 favorites]
jinx one_bean heheh
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:53 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:53 AM on October 25, 2016
Look at marriage equality as a perfect example
But marriage equality does not change the underlying structure of wealth in this country. It admits some LGBTQ people into some privileges but the rich are still rich, the white are still white, etc. That's one of the reasons it's easier to get traction on with Democratic elites than, say, fixing our welfare system. It is very, very hard to get traction on stuff that costs rich people money, and somewhat easier to get traction on stuff that costs [some] rich people the pleasure of their prejudices.
I'm not saying that marriage equality isn't worth having - it's like the ACA in that it has been absolutely transformative for many people even if it hasn't done much for many others. But it is not a good model for understanding social change that requires actual economic redistribution.
posted by Frowner at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
But marriage equality does not change the underlying structure of wealth in this country. It admits some LGBTQ people into some privileges but the rich are still rich, the white are still white, etc. That's one of the reasons it's easier to get traction on with Democratic elites than, say, fixing our welfare system. It is very, very hard to get traction on stuff that costs rich people money, and somewhat easier to get traction on stuff that costs [some] rich people the pleasure of their prejudices.
I'm not saying that marriage equality isn't worth having - it's like the ACA in that it has been absolutely transformative for many people even if it hasn't done much for many others. But it is not a good model for understanding social change that requires actual economic redistribution.
posted by Frowner at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
And Ellickson's Trump is deliberately written to be a parody of a candidate with no theory of mind.
Hari Kunzru spent five days or so after the first debate tweeting his sense of Trump's stream-of-consciousness. It seems more bang-on the closer the election approaches.
posted by holgate at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hari Kunzru spent five days or so after the first debate tweeting his sense of Trump's stream-of-consciousness. It seems more bang-on the closer the election approaches.
posted by holgate at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
re: writing letters to our elected officials, has anybody seen any kind of study regarding the efficacy of that?
I think the general M.O. is for a Designated Intern to tally up the letters, emails, phone calls, etc. from constituents for and against Issue X, so the rep has a decent idea of how many of their Folks Back Home are mad enough to contact them, and on which side they're coming down.
Granted I probably read this on the internet somewhere at some point in the past so take it for what it's worth -- offhand, I'd guess the act of contacting them is not entirely meaningless, but it's not like you're likely to have a Cartographers For Political Equality moment where high ranking government officials are suddenly wowed by your impressive argument and challenged to see the world in a new way.
On the other hand, my mom went to DC a couple years ago for a PFLAG conference [1] and got to meet with her congressman one-on-one about the issue of LGBTQ kids getting bullied. He's a super-libertarian guy so he was politely noncommittal but respectful and she felt legitimately heard so, well, it's not nothing.
[1] I think I've mentioned before that my mom is basically an introverted version of Debbie Novotny from Queer as Folk? Which, I'm totally a real-life Mikey so that works out.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think the general M.O. is for a Designated Intern to tally up the letters, emails, phone calls, etc. from constituents for and against Issue X, so the rep has a decent idea of how many of their Folks Back Home are mad enough to contact them, and on which side they're coming down.
Granted I probably read this on the internet somewhere at some point in the past so take it for what it's worth -- offhand, I'd guess the act of contacting them is not entirely meaningless, but it's not like you're likely to have a Cartographers For Political Equality moment where high ranking government officials are suddenly wowed by your impressive argument and challenged to see the world in a new way.
On the other hand, my mom went to DC a couple years ago for a PFLAG conference [1] and got to meet with her congressman one-on-one about the issue of LGBTQ kids getting bullied. He's a super-libertarian guy so he was politely noncommittal but respectful and she felt legitimately heard so, well, it's not nothing.
[1] I think I've mentioned before that my mom is basically an introverted version of Debbie Novotny from Queer as Folk? Which, I'm totally a real-life Mikey so that works out.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
The movement learned a lot about how to sway public opinion in that time.
But also, too, it was one of those issues where the opposition to it is merely lies and hatred. Just living a normal life (as much as possible) as an out queer person helps to combat that That's not the case of more tricky issues like the minimum wage.
Welp on preview I'm being jinxed again by Frowner heh. Social Security reform is probably a better example in some ways because it was very much a combination of popular sentiment about entitlements changing across the board (thanks to #Occupy imo) meets extremely adept PR campaign by a more and more powerful AARP of its members. But I don't really know much about how that happened so I'll stop typing now and go read more about it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
But also, too, it was one of those issues where the opposition to it is merely lies and hatred. Just living a normal life (as much as possible) as an out queer person helps to combat that That's not the case of more tricky issues like the minimum wage.
Welp on preview I'm being jinxed again by Frowner heh. Social Security reform is probably a better example in some ways because it was very much a combination of popular sentiment about entitlements changing across the board (thanks to #Occupy imo) meets extremely adept PR campaign by a more and more powerful AARP of its members. But I don't really know much about how that happened so I'll stop typing now and go read more about it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"How do we convince more Americans to support my opinion?" is a more relevant one.
Indeed. Even up here in red North Dakota we now get favorable stories on medicinal marijuana. Public opinion can be changed and when that happens, the tectonic plates of government move.
posted by Ber at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Indeed. Even up here in red North Dakota we now get favorable stories on medicinal marijuana. Public opinion can be changed and when that happens, the tectonic plates of government move.
posted by Ber at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
My (50s, white) boss (at an oil company in Texas) just sent this email to the people who report to him:
... With respect to Mr. Trump in particular, I don't believe that men have any place in life without women and children...
"Kirk, crackers are a family food, happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without."
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
... With respect to Mr. Trump in particular, I don't believe that men have any place in life without women and children...
"Kirk, crackers are a family food, happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without."
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
I did some googling about this and couldn't find anything current: is there any mechanism by which Native Americans could get Native representatives in the House? Not by running for House seats in their states, but through the creation of specific seats on which tribal members can vote? After all, federally recognized tribes are governments under the federal government, just like the states are.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:03 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:03 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
The latest Rasmussen poll is now showing Clinton ahead.
Rasmussen called me at home the other night and I "pressed 3" to be dropped from their list because I had read criticisms of their methodology here on The Blue.
Are they not bad? Or is this mention to make the point that even the bad pollsters are now also pointing to a Clinton win?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:03 AM on October 25, 2016
Rasmussen called me at home the other night and I "pressed 3" to be dropped from their list because I had read criticisms of their methodology here on The Blue.
Are they not bad? Or is this mention to make the point that even the bad pollsters are now also pointing to a Clinton win?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:03 AM on October 25, 2016
The point about Robert Kennedy is that he started running (right after Eugene McCarthy) in 1968 BEFORE Johnson decided to drop out. Their success in early polls and primaries definitely led at least in part to LBJ backing out.
Thanks, Potomac Avenue!
posted by kirkaracha at 10:04 AM on October 25, 2016
Your morning moment of hope. A dear friend is a teacher. She wrote this, this morning:
Observing in the 5th grade classroom this morning, they're doing a unit on the role of the president, elections, etc. The teacher is reading aloud from a nonfiction text on the role of the president. The text is written well - uses mostly "The president..." type of language to refer to the role, rather than a gendered pronoun. The teacher inserts "he or she" as she reads as necessary (or perhaps the text is written this way, I'm not sure.) Teacher then goes on to ask a question, something about the role of the president. A student raises his hand, and completely oblivious to the fact that he's making a statement with his choice of gendered pronouns, goes on to answer, "Well, the President, she has to...and she...and when she..." Teacher and I catch each other's eyes and share a knowing glance. So awesome. This kid does not even realize how radical his thinking is. To him, it's completely within his frame of reference that our president can be a woman.posted by Sophie1 at 10:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [140 favorites]
Re: holding politician's feet to the fire. One of the great analogies of the political process I've heard is this:
Many people think a politician's job is to figure out the right action, round up and lead a parade for their cause. Your job is to form a parade, and then when you start walking you invite the politician to smile and walk out in front.
If politicians are going to represent us, we need to be a clear and strong "us" to be represented.
posted by meinvt at 10:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Many people think a politician's job is to figure out the right action, round up and lead a parade for their cause. Your job is to form a parade, and then when you start walking you invite the politician to smile and walk out in front.
If politicians are going to represent us, we need to be a clear and strong "us" to be represented.
posted by meinvt at 10:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
In 1968 there was an abysmal war being perpetrated by the government, which everyone, no matter what other issues they might hold dear, found abhorrent.
42% of the country supported the war in February 1968. Nixon's Vietnam platform was to win "peace with honor." He went on to win that year's election and escalate the war before finally giving in to reality in 1973, having won a second election in a massive landslide against an anti-war candidate.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
42% of the country supported the war in February 1968. Nixon's Vietnam platform was to win "peace with honor." He went on to win that year's election and escalate the war before finally giving in to reality in 1973, having won a second election in a massive landslide against an anti-war candidate.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
showbiz_liz, I think the closest they could hope for without major reform would be some kind of nonvoting delegates for Native American reservations. I think there's a strong argument to be made that the reservations have status that in many ways parallels that of DC and the territories, and that they should have representation on a similar level. Getting from there to actual voting representatives would be a hard slog, but probably worth it if it could be done. Not sure if it could be though without a constitutional amendment.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:08 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:08 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Rasmussen called me at home the other night and I "pressed 3" to be dropped from their list because I had read criticisms of their methodology here on The Blue.
Are they not bad? Or is this mention to make the point that even the bad pollsters are now also pointing to a Clinton win?
538 gives Rasmussen a C+ for accuracy (not great) and says they have an R+2.0 bias.
But, why not take the poll if they call you?
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are they not bad? Or is this mention to make the point that even the bad pollsters are now also pointing to a Clinton win?
538 gives Rasmussen a C+ for accuracy (not great) and says they have an R+2.0 bias.
But, why not take the poll if they call you?
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are they not bad? Or is this mention to make the point that even the bad pollsters are now also pointing to a Clinton win?
The second. Rasmussen and the LA Times poll are consistently right-leaning -- Rasmussen on purpose, the LA Times because it's a "tracking poll" that keeps asking the same people about how their views have changed, and they happened to pick a Trump-heavy set of people that they're now stuck with. For both to be showing a Clinton lead is significant.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:11 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The second. Rasmussen and the LA Times poll are consistently right-leaning -- Rasmussen on purpose, the LA Times because it's a "tracking poll" that keeps asking the same people about how their views have changed, and they happened to pick a Trump-heavy set of people that they're now stuck with. For both to be showing a Clinton lead is significant.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:11 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
showbiz_liz, I think the closest they could hope for without major reform would be some kind of nonvoting delegates for Native American reservations. I think there's a strong argument to be made that the reservations have status that in many ways parallels that of DC and the territories, and that they should have representation on a similar level. Getting from there to actual voting representatives would be a hard slog, but probably worth it if it could be done. Not sure if it could be though without a constitutional amendment.
I'll admit I haven't been following the pipeline protests as closely as I should be (because the election has sucked all the oxygen out of the room), but one thing I feel like I keep hearing is that the protests are bringing disparate native groups together in a way that's sort of unprecedented. I've been wondering if that will lead to results that last beyond the pipeline issue, no matter how it gets resolved.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'll admit I haven't been following the pipeline protests as closely as I should be (because the election has sucked all the oxygen out of the room), but one thing I feel like I keep hearing is that the protests are bringing disparate native groups together in a way that's sort of unprecedented. I've been wondering if that will lead to results that last beyond the pipeline issue, no matter how it gets resolved.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Not by running for House seats in their states, but through the creation of specific seats on which tribal members can vote?I doubt it. Puerto Rico and D.C. have pathetic federal representation and they're technically part of the US. It seems unlikely that voting powers would be extended to a sovereign nation within our borders without a constitutional amendment.
posted by xyzzy at 10:13 AM on October 25, 2016
The point about Robert Kennedy is that he started running (right after Eugene McCarthy) in 1968 BEFORE Johnson decided to drop out. Their success in early polls and primaries definitely led at least in part to LBJ backing out.
Fair enough; maybe it was just a grotesque coincidence, then, because of what ultimately happened to RFK, but the read I was getting was that "the only way that the public can influence policy on presidential candidates is by killing them," and I think that's what was giving some of us pause.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:15 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fair enough; maybe it was just a grotesque coincidence, then, because of what ultimately happened to RFK, but the read I was getting was that "the only way that the public can influence policy on presidential candidates is by killing them," and I think that's what was giving some of us pause.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:15 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's one of the big reasons why I really hope they succeed. There's quite a bit of pan-Native-American cultural interchange already, and this protest really does seem to be uniting and galvanizing them in a way that (as far as I know—I'm prepared to be corrected) has never happened before, at least not in recent history. I hope this historic movement can start off with a historic victory, and that Native Americans across the country will be able to consolidate around that and forge a much more powerful voice for themselves on the national stage. It's a desperate moment and I hope it turns into something huge.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:16 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:16 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Also, if you haven't yet, read as many of Podesta's unfiltered emails as you can stomach. What the DNC and Clinton campaign is often being hammered for by the left is their discussion of how and when to come out in favor of one or the other position. But that's precisely what we're talking about here.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
At the time I didn't take the poll because Rhode Island will be going for Clinton no matter what, and I was in a hurry to get dinner on the table.
But, why not take the poll if they call you?
I usually do take phone polls about politics, but in this case I hadn't thought it through. Next time I will, though -- thanks for pointing that out. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:18 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
But, why not take the poll if they call you?
I usually do take phone polls about politics, but in this case I hadn't thought it through. Next time I will, though -- thanks for pointing that out. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:18 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
To him, it's completely within his frame of reference that our president can be a woman.
Not sure why that should cause me to tear up on a Tuesday afternoon at work, but there you go.
posted by Mooski at 10:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Not sure why that should cause me to tear up on a Tuesday afternoon at work, but there you go.
posted by Mooski at 10:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
From the NYT story on the Trump interview tapes:
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
But he always seems to return, in one form or another, to the theme of humiliation.I hope the Al Smith dinner did a number on his soul then.
He reserves special scorn for people who embarrass themselves in front of their peers. He tells the story of an unnamed bank president who became inebriated during an award dinner at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in Manhattan, a ritual of New York society. By the end of the night, he recalls, the man was incapable of walking and had to be carried out, to Mr. Trump’s disapproval.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
West Michigan sign report:
I've only been here a couple months, so my knowledge of the political landscape is shaky, but from what I gather, Grand Rapids proper is a fairly blue island surrounded by red. Congressional districts divide the city up to be included with vast swaths of outlying areas so that those districts are pretty reliably Republican.
Just driving around the city itself, I've seen TWO trump signs (one with a bonus "Hillary for Prison" sign), which are outnumbered probably 10-1 by Clinton signs - my neighborhood is pretty full of them, and I've actually seen more Black Lives Matter signs than Trump. I've seen one Gary Johnson sign. There are Republicans in town though, because I've seen Justin Amash (the house rep for my district) signs, which outnumber the Trump signs about 5-1. On a couple drives out west a bit, there's been a bit more Trump and virtually no Hillary.
posted by LionIndex at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've only been here a couple months, so my knowledge of the political landscape is shaky, but from what I gather, Grand Rapids proper is a fairly blue island surrounded by red. Congressional districts divide the city up to be included with vast swaths of outlying areas so that those districts are pretty reliably Republican.
Just driving around the city itself, I've seen TWO trump signs (one with a bonus "Hillary for Prison" sign), which are outnumbered probably 10-1 by Clinton signs - my neighborhood is pretty full of them, and I've actually seen more Black Lives Matter signs than Trump. I've seen one Gary Johnson sign. There are Republicans in town though, because I've seen Justin Amash (the house rep for my district) signs, which outnumber the Trump signs about 5-1. On a couple drives out west a bit, there's been a bit more Trump and virtually no Hillary.
posted by LionIndex at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
West Michigan sign report:
I've only been here a couple months, so my knowledge of the political landscape is shaky, but from what I gather, Grand Rapids proper is a fairly blue island surrounded by red.
Western Michigan is the home of Gerald Ford, who was a famously bipartisan Republican who would never have trucked with this Donald Trump nonsense. The GOP out there is less Tea Party whackadoo and more old-money blue-blood Republican.
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've only been here a couple months, so my knowledge of the political landscape is shaky, but from what I gather, Grand Rapids proper is a fairly blue island surrounded by red.
Western Michigan is the home of Gerald Ford, who was a famously bipartisan Republican who would never have trucked with this Donald Trump nonsense. The GOP out there is less Tea Party whackadoo and more old-money blue-blood Republican.
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm still lost on the importance of lawn signs. It blows my mind that these things sway anyone's opinion at all. Maybe if they carry a message, sure, but most have nothing but the candidate's name. It always comes off as just some gross combination of blatant anonymous peer pressure and even grosser littering.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I did some googling about this and couldn't find anything current: is there any mechanism by which Native Americans could get Native representatives in the House? Not by running for House seats in their states, but through the creation of specific seats on which tribal members can vote? After all, federally recognized tribes are governments under the federal government, just like the states are.
I... think you'd have to be a constitutional lawyer with specific expertise in federal-tribal government relations to answer this with any degree of legitimacy. But I don't think the states (which were established by Congress in accordance with federal constitutional procedure) are equivalent to first nations at all.
States do have some sovereignty (i.e., the federal government can't directly interfere in areas that are legally state prerogatives), though lots of times the feds get states to do what they want through the back door with various Interstate Commerce clause workarounds or by means of financial incentives. But in theory tribes are sovereign and only subordinate to the Federal government insofar as they have ceded sovereignty to it. (Typically at the point of a gun, mind you....)
It probably would be doable to give first nations delegates in Congress, though. It looks (per a brief glance at the Wiki page on non-voting members that Congress can establish delegates by statute, as they did starting with the Northwest Ordinance for territories, and as D.C., Puerto Rico and four other territories have today. Interestingly, they can vote in committees. So that could actually influence things -- it'd be nice if the delegate(s) from the First Nations actually got to be in the committees where policy is hashed out....
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I... think you'd have to be a constitutional lawyer with specific expertise in federal-tribal government relations to answer this with any degree of legitimacy. But I don't think the states (which were established by Congress in accordance with federal constitutional procedure) are equivalent to first nations at all.
States do have some sovereignty (i.e., the federal government can't directly interfere in areas that are legally state prerogatives), though lots of times the feds get states to do what they want through the back door with various Interstate Commerce clause workarounds or by means of financial incentives. But in theory tribes are sovereign and only subordinate to the Federal government insofar as they have ceded sovereignty to it. (Typically at the point of a gun, mind you....)
It probably would be doable to give first nations delegates in Congress, though. It looks (per a brief glance at the Wiki page on non-voting members that Congress can establish delegates by statute, as they did starting with the Northwest Ordinance for territories, and as D.C., Puerto Rico and four other territories have today. Interestingly, they can vote in committees. So that could actually influence things -- it'd be nice if the delegate(s) from the First Nations actually got to be in the committees where policy is hashed out....
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's what the Electoral College Would look like if only Millenials Voted
Looking at the map in the article, one might think Montana and Nebraska are gray due to lack of data. I like to think it's because there are no Millenials there.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Looking at the map in the article, one might think Montana and Nebraska are gray due to lack of data. I like to think it's because there are no Millenials there.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'm still lost on the importance of lawn signs. It blows my mind that these things sway anyone's opinion at all. Maybe if they carry a message, sure, but most have nothing but the candidate's name. It always comes off as just some gross combination of blatant anonymous peer pressure and even grosser littering.
I suspect they make a much bigger difference in down-ticket races, where if you're a low-info voter you might not even really know who the candidates are when you step into the voting booth.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I suspect they make a much bigger difference in down-ticket races, where if you're a low-info voter you might not even really know who the candidates are when you step into the voting booth.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm still lost on the importance of lawn signs.
I tend to think of them as a way for like minded folks to recognize one another, sort of like the masonic lodge badges you occasionally see attached awkwardly to the license place screw on a car.
posted by Mooski at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I tend to think of them as a way for like minded folks to recognize one another, sort of like the masonic lodge badges you occasionally see attached awkwardly to the license place screw on a car.
posted by Mooski at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Western Michigan is the home of Gerald Ford, who was a famously bipartisan Republican who would never have trucked with this Donald Trump nonsense. The GOP out there is less Tea Party whackadoo and more old-money blue-blood Republican.
And yet, there's this Justin Amash Tea Party whackadoo guy representing us in Congress.
posted by LionIndex at 10:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
And yet, there's this Justin Amash Tea Party whackadoo guy representing us in Congress.
posted by LionIndex at 10:30 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a bit of an off-the-wall idea, but what would the process look like for lowering the voting age? As far as I can tell from a brief reading, the 26th Amendment appears to set a limit on how old a person needs to be before the government is required to let them vote, but I don't see that it has anything to say about prohibiting states from, say, passing laws that lower the voting age to 16. I would actually really be in favor of this; we've seen that it appears to take a while for voters to ramp up and mobilize, and as a matter of general principle I'm in favor of legislation that empowers young people. Plus of course it would have the effect of making the overall electorate that much more progressive, since to a very great extent political ideology seems to be highly correlated with age.
I would absolutely have voted in 2000 if I'd been eligible; I knew enough to have an opinion, and I was certainly better informed than many of my fellow citizens from older cohorts. Is there anything stopping this from happening other than the howls of ultimate outrage that would arise from the Republican party if such a thing were to be proposed?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would absolutely have voted in 2000 if I'd been eligible; I knew enough to have an opinion, and I was certainly better informed than many of my fellow citizens from older cohorts. Is there anything stopping this from happening other than the howls of ultimate outrage that would arise from the Republican party if such a thing were to be proposed?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
has anybody seen any kind of study regarding the efficacy of that? It's always seemed to me like you might as well whisper your concerns into a hole in the ground, for all the good it'll do.
Sort of kind of. There's good evidence that MCs and at least professionalized state legislators look at public opinion, to the extent that they can, and tweak their voting patterns in response to it. Chris24 linked to a recent paper upstream on lefty turnout, and the linked piece mentions Thad Kousser and Seth Masket's piece on how CA legislators used the information they got about public opinion in their districts from the Davis recall / Schwarzenegger elections.* Obviously, letters and phone calls are ways for MCs/legislators to learn, with big error bars, about public opinion.
That said, unless you fall into a small number of categories -- you are acquaintances of some sort, you at least share friends, you are writing about something you are known to be expert on, you lead an organization or otherwise can credibly claim to represent some mass of people -- they probably don't particularly give a shit what you, specifically, think. So I wouldn't bother trying to craft some especially winning argument. They care about the mass of stuff they receive, though -- if the phone calls are 3:1 in favor of whatever, or if there are 3 pounds of "yes" mail and only one pound of "no" mail. Also modes of communication that are more expensive / annoying for the sender to use send a more credible signal that you will actually alter your vote in response to their decision.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sort of kind of. There's good evidence that MCs and at least professionalized state legislators look at public opinion, to the extent that they can, and tweak their voting patterns in response to it. Chris24 linked to a recent paper upstream on lefty turnout, and the linked piece mentions Thad Kousser and Seth Masket's piece on how CA legislators used the information they got about public opinion in their districts from the Davis recall / Schwarzenegger elections.* Obviously, letters and phone calls are ways for MCs/legislators to learn, with big error bars, about public opinion.
That said, unless you fall into a small number of categories -- you are acquaintances of some sort, you at least share friends, you are writing about something you are known to be expert on, you lead an organization or otherwise can credibly claim to represent some mass of people -- they probably don't particularly give a shit what you, specifically, think. So I wouldn't bother trying to craft some especially winning argument. They care about the mass of stuff they receive, though -- if the phone calls are 3:1 in favor of whatever, or if there are 3 pounds of "yes" mail and only one pound of "no" mail. Also modes of communication that are more expensive / annoying for the sender to use send a more credible signal that you will actually alter your vote in response to their decision.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm still lost on the importance of lawn signs.
I once harvested several dozen of them the day after a local election in New Orleans and used them as hull cladding for a Viking-ship-themed Halloween float.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
I once harvested several dozen of them the day after a local election in New Orleans and used them as hull cladding for a Viking-ship-themed Halloween float.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
Puerto Rico and D.C. have pathetic federal representation and they're technically part of the US.
I don't know about Puerto Rico, but DC is the only city that has direct, if limited, representation in Congress. The obvious solution there is to absorb the non-federal parts back into Maryland (c.f. Arlington) but nobody is really advocating that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:37 AM on October 25, 2016
I don't know about Puerto Rico, but DC is the only city that has direct, if limited, representation in Congress. The obvious solution there is to absorb the non-federal parts back into Maryland (c.f. Arlington) but nobody is really advocating that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:37 AM on October 25, 2016
On Sunday I attended my first Hillary Clinton rally, which was pretty great. She's a much better, more energetic public speaker than she is ever given credit for. Today Trump is speaking in my hometown. I know several people who are going to protest. It should be a hoot. I kind of wish they were out G'ingOTV instead, but whatevs. most of them have been and will be canvassing a few hours a week. Let them have their fun.
It was a two and a half hour drive to the Sunday rally, and I took the opportunity to listen to the Hamilton soundtrack for the first time. So many pieces from these election threads came together!
This is the first general election since 2008 that I haven't been campaigning. I worked on both of Barack Obama's campaigns, and several local down-ballot races in the mid-terms and primaries. Right now I'm working for a large national nonpartisan non-profit that has us going to campaign rallies and other events a couple times a week. But I can't publicly cheer for (or against) any candidate or policy (unless the candidate or surrogate talks about our issue) because we are very serious about appearing neutral. Even though 90% of the people on this project are former Obama campaigners. (Where else are you going to find good field operatives?)
Anyways, what's kept me sane this cycle: My wife, @onlxn, and y'all in these MetaFilter election threads! Two weeks to go! Thanks to my Metafilter peeps!
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
It was a two and a half hour drive to the Sunday rally, and I took the opportunity to listen to the Hamilton soundtrack for the first time. So many pieces from these election threads came together!
This is the first general election since 2008 that I haven't been campaigning. I worked on both of Barack Obama's campaigns, and several local down-ballot races in the mid-terms and primaries. Right now I'm working for a large national nonpartisan non-profit that has us going to campaign rallies and other events a couple times a week. But I can't publicly cheer for (or against) any candidate or policy (unless the candidate or surrogate talks about our issue) because we are very serious about appearing neutral. Even though 90% of the people on this project are former Obama campaigners. (Where else are you going to find good field operatives?)
Anyways, what's kept me sane this cycle: My wife, @onlxn, and y'all in these MetaFilter election threads! Two weeks to go! Thanks to my Metafilter peeps!
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
Is there anything stopping this from happening other than the howls of ultimate outrage that would arise from the Republican party if such a thing were to be proposed?
Legally, no. The 26th Amendment was because of this very same thing -- a bunch of states lowered their voting ages to 18, and some people complained about it.
But yeah, there's no way in hell you'd get it lowered in any but the bluest states (Ohio's Republican Secretary of State tried to put the kibosh on the tradition of 17-year-olds who would be 18 on November 8th getting to vote in primaries).
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Legally, no. The 26th Amendment was because of this very same thing -- a bunch of states lowered their voting ages to 18, and some people complained about it.
But yeah, there's no way in hell you'd get it lowered in any but the bluest states (Ohio's Republican Secretary of State tried to put the kibosh on the tradition of 17-year-olds who would be 18 on November 8th getting to vote in primaries).
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've only been here a couple months, so my knowledge of the political landscape is shaky, but from what I gather, Grand Rapids proper is a fairly blue island surrounded by red. Congressional districts divide the city up to be included with vast swaths of outlying areas so that those districts are pretty reliably Republican.
Yeah basically. The SW side is largely Latinx and the near SE side is African-American, both heavily blue areas. Near NE and NW is working-class White and Latinx, and farther NE and SE sides are middle-class white - swing areas. Suburbs (especially Wyoming and Kentwood) are increasingly mixed ethnically except for Grandville and areas further to the south and west which are super-Dutch conservative.
Ada, GR township and Cascade are wealthy conservative areas. East Grand Rapids is old money and leans Dem (that's where Ford grew up actually).
This is all my recollection from 10-15 years ago though -- things have probably changed somewhat since then.
Just driving around the city itself, I've seen TWO trump signs (one with a bonus "Hillary for Prison" sign), which are outnumbered probably 10-1 by Clinton signs - my neighborhood is pretty full of them, and I've actually seen more Black Lives Matter signs than Trump. I've seen one Gary Johnson sign. There are Republicans in town though, because I've seen Justin Amash (the house rep for my district) signs, which outnumber the Trump signs about 5-1. On a couple drives out west a bit, there's been a bit more Trump and virtually no Hillary.
This is... this is very good. I'm surprised there's not more Johnson support actually; as Etrigan mentioned above, Trump-style brash nationalism doesn't play too well in genteel West Michigan.
And yet, there's this Justin Amash Tea Party whackadoo guy representing us in Congress.
Yeah. He's a nutjob libertarian, to be sure, but he's actually a legit non-deplorable as far as I can tell -- he's in the strict economic conservative mold as opposed to the thin-veneer-over-white-nationalism embodied by people like Ron Paul. He actually votes 'no' on pretty much everything that he feels is 'unconstitutional' aka 99% of congressional legislation, and at least when he started in Congress he was putting detailed explanations of each of his vote rationales on his Facebook page. Which, it's an ethos.
And, it's amusing to me that my fairly white conservative hometown is represented by a young Palestinian dude.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah basically. The SW side is largely Latinx and the near SE side is African-American, both heavily blue areas. Near NE and NW is working-class White and Latinx, and farther NE and SE sides are middle-class white - swing areas. Suburbs (especially Wyoming and Kentwood) are increasingly mixed ethnically except for Grandville and areas further to the south and west which are super-Dutch conservative.
Ada, GR township and Cascade are wealthy conservative areas. East Grand Rapids is old money and leans Dem (that's where Ford grew up actually).
This is all my recollection from 10-15 years ago though -- things have probably changed somewhat since then.
Just driving around the city itself, I've seen TWO trump signs (one with a bonus "Hillary for Prison" sign), which are outnumbered probably 10-1 by Clinton signs - my neighborhood is pretty full of them, and I've actually seen more Black Lives Matter signs than Trump. I've seen one Gary Johnson sign. There are Republicans in town though, because I've seen Justin Amash (the house rep for my district) signs, which outnumber the Trump signs about 5-1. On a couple drives out west a bit, there's been a bit more Trump and virtually no Hillary.
This is... this is very good. I'm surprised there's not more Johnson support actually; as Etrigan mentioned above, Trump-style brash nationalism doesn't play too well in genteel West Michigan.
And yet, there's this Justin Amash Tea Party whackadoo guy representing us in Congress.
Yeah. He's a nutjob libertarian, to be sure, but he's actually a legit non-deplorable as far as I can tell -- he's in the strict economic conservative mold as opposed to the thin-veneer-over-white-nationalism embodied by people like Ron Paul. He actually votes 'no' on pretty much everything that he feels is 'unconstitutional' aka 99% of congressional legislation, and at least when he started in Congress he was putting detailed explanations of each of his vote rationales on his Facebook page. Which, it's an ethos.
And, it's amusing to me that my fairly white conservative hometown is represented by a young Palestinian dude.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would absolutely have voted in 2000 if I'd been eligible; I knew enough to have an opinion, and I was certainly better informed than many of my fellow citizens from older cohorts.
You may have been better informed, and I may have been, but if you can honestly look back on your teenaged peer group and think, "yes. yes, these teenagers deserve to vote in national elections, because they will do their homework and vote responsibly on candidates and issues that matter," then you clearly had a very different peer group than I did. For god's sake, I only barely trusted my peer group to vote reasonably for goddamn prom king and queen. Student elections should remain the training wheels of democracy for teenagers, not actual national elections.
Letting teens younger than 18 vote also seems like a recipe for just giving their parents an extra vote. 16 year olds are still dependents (for the most part), and I can imagine all manner of grim scenarios where they're pressured or coerced into votes against their will.
posted by yasaman at 10:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
You may have been better informed, and I may have been, but if you can honestly look back on your teenaged peer group and think, "yes. yes, these teenagers deserve to vote in national elections, because they will do their homework and vote responsibly on candidates and issues that matter," then you clearly had a very different peer group than I did. For god's sake, I only barely trusted my peer group to vote reasonably for goddamn prom king and queen. Student elections should remain the training wheels of democracy for teenagers, not actual national elections.
Letting teens younger than 18 vote also seems like a recipe for just giving their parents an extra vote. 16 year olds are still dependents (for the most part), and I can imagine all manner of grim scenarios where they're pressured or coerced into votes against their will.
posted by yasaman at 10:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
States do have some sovereignty (i.e., the federal government can't directly interfere in areas that are legally state prerogatives)
We're still pretending that's true? I thought Anton you might drive 5 hours and sell that 1oz of weed across state lines Scalia put that one in the ground and covered it with dirt.
posted by phearlez at 10:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
We're still pretending that's true? I thought Anton you might drive 5 hours and sell that 1oz of weed across state lines Scalia put that one in the ground and covered it with dirt.
posted by phearlez at 10:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know about Puerto Rico, but DC is the only city that has direct, if limited, representation in Congress. The obvious solution there is to absorb the non-federal parts back into Maryland (c.f. Arlington) but nobody is really advocating that.
No. We have a non-voting representative. That is not representation. We have more people in our city than in the entire state of Wyoming. We deserve representation, not to be absorbed into another entity with entirely different priorities. The obvious solution is to let us (and PR, etc) elect our own voting senators and representatives.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [53 favorites]
No. We have a non-voting representative. That is not representation. We have more people in our city than in the entire state of Wyoming. We deserve representation, not to be absorbed into another entity with entirely different priorities. The obvious solution is to let us (and PR, etc) elect our own voting senators and representatives.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [53 favorites]
Amash's predecessor Vern Ehlers was way better though. He was an actual, legit physicist. Ah, the good old days when the GOP believed in science. :(
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is all my recollection from 10-15 years ago though -- things have probably changed somewhat since then.
Still pretty accurate. I just drove through East GR this morning to Aquinas College, and there were plenty of Clinton signs. Your description of the demographic breakdown by neighborhood still holds as well. I'm just a bit south of Baxter and east of Burton Heights, which seem to be heavily African American and Latino neighborhoods, respectively.
posted by LionIndex at 10:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Still pretty accurate. I just drove through East GR this morning to Aquinas College, and there were plenty of Clinton signs. Your description of the demographic breakdown by neighborhood still holds as well. I'm just a bit south of Baxter and east of Burton Heights, which seem to be heavily African American and Latino neighborhoods, respectively.
posted by LionIndex at 10:44 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
For god's sake, I only barely trusted my peer group to vote reasonably for goddamn prom king and queen.
The idea that we should consider whether a group would vote "responsibly" as a metric for whether they should be allowed to vote can, with all the respect the assertion deserves, get fucked sideways with some jalapeno lube.
posted by phearlez at 10:45 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
The idea that we should consider whether a group would vote "responsibly" as a metric for whether they should be allowed to vote can, with all the respect the assertion deserves, get fucked sideways with some jalapeno lube.
posted by phearlez at 10:45 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
OK yasaman, but there's nothing in the system as we currently have it that's designed to ensure that only informed, responsible voters vote. A lot of people who vote today are complete knuckleheads, yet we place great value in getting as many eligible people to vote as we possibly can. Teenagers are citizens with thoughts and opinions, and it's pretty patronizing to say that their worldviews just aren't sophisticated enough to allow them to have a say.
And if we want to argue that people shouldn't vote because their votes might be coerced, then we should probably ban women from voting too, and anybody with a boss for that matter—there's currently nothing stopping abusive partners or employers from coercing the votes of the people in their power (other than the secret ballot, which would naturally apply equally to 16-year-olds) so let's just make it impossible. The fact that there's no evidence that this happens except in maybe a very few outlier cases is no reason not to disenfranchise those people, right?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
And if we want to argue that people shouldn't vote because their votes might be coerced, then we should probably ban women from voting too, and anybody with a boss for that matter—there's currently nothing stopping abusive partners or employers from coercing the votes of the people in their power (other than the secret ballot, which would naturally apply equally to 16-year-olds) so let's just make it impossible. The fact that there's no evidence that this happens except in maybe a very few outlier cases is no reason not to disenfranchise those people, right?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm 47 and this is the first time in my life I've ever put out a yard sign for any candidate. I did it because early in the campaign season--despite the fact that I live in Massachusetts, in a suburb of Boston that will without any doubt be as blue as blue can be when the votes come in--the only signs I was seeing in my town were Trump signs. Seriously, probably half a dozen or more, including one way over on the far side of town that is an enormous "Hillary for Prison" banner right on a heavily traveled neighborhood arterial.
I was disgusted to see them. Of course I have no right to take them down or alter them, so I figure, the only way I can reasonably fight back is to have my own sign (indeed, on a different, heavily traveled neighborhood arterial.) I put my sign between the sidewalk and the curb for max visibility and in fact, on the first day it was out, someone kicked or stepped on it enough to bend the metal support. I rejiggered it and set it out again, no further problems.
Since then, happily, the Clinton/Kaine signs have multiplied and now probably outnumber the Trump ones by 10 to 1. But that wasn't true at the start, and I just couldn't "be quiet" about it.
posted by Sublimity at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
I was disgusted to see them. Of course I have no right to take them down or alter them, so I figure, the only way I can reasonably fight back is to have my own sign (indeed, on a different, heavily traveled neighborhood arterial.) I put my sign between the sidewalk and the curb for max visibility and in fact, on the first day it was out, someone kicked or stepped on it enough to bend the metal support. I rejiggered it and set it out again, no further problems.
Since then, happily, the Clinton/Kaine signs have multiplied and now probably outnumber the Trump ones by 10 to 1. But that wasn't true at the start, and I just couldn't "be quiet" about it.
posted by Sublimity at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
From what I've heard from campaign workers, lawn signs are something the local party supporters love but campaigns don't, because they don't seem to make any difference. The calculation may be different at the very local level, though.
posted by tavella at 10:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 10:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jeet Heer, New Republic: The Right Is Giving Up on Democracy
posted by tonycpsu at 10:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm still lost on the importance of lawn signs.
So are the parties, at this point. They consider them a dead end to voter engagement. People put up lawn signs and consider they've done their part. Parties want you to make some calls or knock on doors.
My state is safely blue, so this may not apply to swing or red states, but we don't give anything out unless you're a volunteer. And even there it's slim pickings. We had bumper stickers, but those were courtesy of a donor, and you had to volunteer and promise to put them on your car, and not scotch tape them to the window.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
So are the parties, at this point. They consider them a dead end to voter engagement. People put up lawn signs and consider they've done their part. Parties want you to make some calls or knock on doors.
My state is safely blue, so this may not apply to swing or red states, but we don't give anything out unless you're a volunteer. And even there it's slim pickings. We had bumper stickers, but those were courtesy of a donor, and you had to volunteer and promise to put them on your car, and not scotch tape them to the window.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Native Americans face the worst racial discrimination in the United States. Check out this bit on NPR on the 2016 Arizona election
posted by humanfont at 10:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 10:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is a bit of an off-the-wall idea, but what would the process look like for lowering the voting age?
San Francisco has a measure on the ballot right now that would allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in local and school board elections (which are controlled by local law, anything else requires state law changes). It's been done in a few other areas, and heavy hitters like Pelosi are on board.
If it does pass, it will be interesting to see what happens. Local elections get much less attention and have much lower turnout, so a large enough bloc of engaged high school students becomes a pretty important constituency.
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
San Francisco has a measure on the ballot right now that would allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in local and school board elections (which are controlled by local law, anything else requires state law changes). It's been done in a few other areas, and heavy hitters like Pelosi are on board.
If it does pass, it will be interesting to see what happens. Local elections get much less attention and have much lower turnout, so a large enough bloc of engaged high school students becomes a pretty important constituency.
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm thinking of walking down by the Old Post Office in DC tomorrow. The ribbon cutting isn't open to the public, but I assume there will be protests or something outside the building.
Trump battles protesters for space outside hotel grand opening
Trump battles protesters for space outside hotel grand opening
Protesters have not allowed the presidential candidate to peacefully promote the Old Post Office project or his candidacy there, despite the federal government giving Trump’s company unusual leeway over the property outside his $212 million hotel.posted by peeedro at 10:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wednesday morning will be no different, as Trump plans to hold a grand opening celebration at the hotel and two anti-Trump groups have applied for sidewalk permits to protest two weeks before the election.
In the past, Trump Organization officials have either ignored the noise out front or stationed a security guard at the front of the hotel, located in the Old Post Office pavilion on Pennsylvania Avenue.
But this time Trump has a unique plan top keep opponents away from his event. According to the National Park Service, a subsidiary of Trump’s company has applied for its own public space permit for Wednesday morning, which could give the magnate some control of the sidewalk along Pennsylvania Avenue and possibly force protesters across the street.
Generally in an election I can see lawn signs being pointless, but in this election, where a talking point I see repeatedly is Trump supporters thinking the election will be rigged because everyone they know is voting for Trump, I feel like lawn signs offer a big "nuh-uh".
posted by LionIndex at 10:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 10:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Teenagers are citizens with thoughts and opinions, and it's pretty patronizing to say that their worldviews just aren't sophisticated enough to allow them to have a say.
Is it also patronizing to say that thirteen year olds aren't sophisticated enough to drive cars on the road or carry guns to school? What about pets? Certainly pets are people, too. I say "One vote, one ambulatory lifeform."
posted by octobersurprise at 10:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Is it also patronizing to say that thirteen year olds aren't sophisticated enough to drive cars on the road or carry guns to school? What about pets? Certainly pets are people, too. I say "One vote, one ambulatory lifeform."
posted by octobersurprise at 10:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I guess the thought of 16-year-olds voting gave me pause for a moment, but then I remembered:
1. I was fairly foolish at 18;
2. I still tried to take my vote pretty seriously;
3. Each age group has its characteristic foolery anyway;
4. Most people have something they vote on for foolish reasons.
Should everyone be able to vote from the age of reading comprehension? I guess an issue in this is when someone becomes old enough to make a decision more-or-less separately from their parents. At six, for instance, basically it would be two votes from the parent; by sixteen, you feel like while a kid might (or might not!) be strongly influenced by parental views, they would be able to make as much their own decision as someone who was, say, 18.
posted by Frowner at 10:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
1. I was fairly foolish at 18;
2. I still tried to take my vote pretty seriously;
3. Each age group has its characteristic foolery anyway;
4. Most people have something they vote on for foolish reasons.
Should everyone be able to vote from the age of reading comprehension? I guess an issue in this is when someone becomes old enough to make a decision more-or-less separately from their parents. At six, for instance, basically it would be two votes from the parent; by sixteen, you feel like while a kid might (or might not!) be strongly influenced by parental views, they would be able to make as much their own decision as someone who was, say, 18.
posted by Frowner at 10:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
No. We have a non-voting representative. That is not representation. We have more people in our city than in the entire state of Wyoming.
Any major city has more people than Wyoming. It should still be a territory, but that toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
That said, DC's Congresscritters can vote in committee. New York City doesn't have that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:58 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Any major city has more people than Wyoming. It should still be a territory, but that toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
That said, DC's Congresscritters can vote in committee. New York City doesn't have that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:58 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
This editorial in Foreign Policy by David Rothkopf of all people is astonishing in its passion.
Are we flawed? Deeply. We are haunted by inequality, racism, corruption, violence, misogyny, and too many whose views are too tightly moored to a past that is thankfully receding rapidly into memory. This political campaign has revealed, as democratic processes are wont to do, many of these bad traits — with more of them associated with one candidate in particular than perhaps at any time since our first elections more than two centuries ago.posted by winna at 10:58 AM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
But this election is revealing not only the greatness of democracy but the greatness of the American people. Democracy — messy, ugly, coaxing out of the shadows our inner demons — is actually working. When this election is said and done, provided voters do not become too complacent and do their duty on Election Day, not only will sanity prevail and the most qualified candidate win (and Hillary Clinton is one of the most qualified, accomplished, and deserving candidates for president America has ever seen), but the forces of darkness will be repudiated soundly, unmistakably rejected by the majority of the American people.
This dispiriting election has been dominated, thanks to Donald Trump and his supporters, by mean-spirited, even vile, rhetoric. But the American people are now rising up to repudiate it, and that is encouraging and profoundly reassuring. We have been given a choice, a stark one. We have vented; we have argued. And we have decided. Trump may huff and puff and make noises about determining whether or not he will accept the election results, but the beauty of our system is that the choice — despite his autocratic impulses — is not up to him, no matter how much money his father gave him, no matter how much he has scammed or sleazed his way along. He does not have enough power — no one has — to overcome the collective and clearly stated will of the American people.
Florida spirals away from Trump — Politico
Interesting take away:
Interesting take away:
"At one point last week, Democrats briefly overtook Republicans in absentee ballots cast, marking the first time Democrats have ever caught Republicans in pre-Election Day ballots before in-person early voting begins.posted by octobersurprise at 11:02 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
But the lead didn’t last. By that point, the Trump campaign had realized it wasn’t actively calling and mailing absentee ballot voters to get them to mail their votes in. The campaign quickly instituted what’s called a “chase” program to pressure voters to fill out their ballots and send them in.
Little glitches like that make longtime Trump supporter and past political adviser Roger Stone, who lives in Florida, fret. He blamed most of the campaign problems on the Trump campaign leadership in New York."
18 is the legal measure of adulthood for most purposes so using that for voting too makes sense to me.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:03 AM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 11:03 AM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
Personally, I'm of the opinion that when you reach a majority, 18, our society has certain expectations of you. You are an adult. You are legally responsible. You can vote, sign contracts, make medical decisions, join the armed forces, and vote. Of course, it's totally arbitrary. It's always going to be. But, I am completely fine with that being the arbitrary number that we're comfortable with for now.
On the other hand, I've never heard about the school board elections, and I like the idea of having high school students allowed to vote for people that will be directly representing them in their schools.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
On the other hand, I've never heard about the school board elections, and I like the idea of having high school students allowed to vote for people that will be directly representing them in their schools.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Attempting To Woo Latino Voters, Marco Rubio Gets Booed At Orlando Festival -- NPR
Oh please, oh please, oh please tell me this is indicative of his chances of reelection.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Oh please, oh please, oh please tell me this is indicative of his chances of reelection.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Any major city has more people than Wyoming. It should still be a territory, but that toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
That said, DC's Congresscritters can vote in committee. New York City doesn't have that.
Yeah, but New York City has voting representatives and New York State has voting senators. DC has neither. DC and Puerto Rico and everyone else governed by the United States deserves the right to elect their own voting representatives and senators. We all deserve the same rights everyone else does.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
That said, DC's Congresscritters can vote in committee. New York City doesn't have that.
Yeah, but New York City has voting representatives and New York State has voting senators. DC has neither. DC and Puerto Rico and everyone else governed by the United States deserves the right to elect their own voting representatives and senators. We all deserve the same rights everyone else does.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
I could be convinced to give 16-year olds the vote if we had mandatory civics classes and eliminated bullshit like requiring permission slips before showing your class a speech by PRESIDENT Obama.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 11:06 AM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
> "That said, DC's Congresscritters can vote in committee. New York City doesn't have that."
Congressional representatives from New York City districts can both vote in committee and vote on the floor, so I really don't know what you're talking about.
posted by kyrademon at 11:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Congressional representatives from New York City districts can both vote in committee and vote on the floor, so I really don't know what you're talking about.
posted by kyrademon at 11:07 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Moving a territory into statehood requires (among other things) a simple majority in Congress. I wish the Dems had moved on getting those last territories in back in 2009. I'm not sure what it would take to get DC some representation but I'm sure it would take an immovable Democratic majority in Congress to get it even considered.
posted by Ber at 11:07 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by Ber at 11:07 AM on October 25, 2016
Yeah, but New York City has voting representatives and New York State has voting senators.
And if DC was absorbed back into MD, they would have that. But it's a non-starter because it would diminish their influence.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:08 AM on October 25, 2016
And if DC was absorbed back into MD, they would have that. But it's a non-starter because it would diminish their influence.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:08 AM on October 25, 2016
Teenagers won't vote responsibly and they will vote how their parents tell them to are both arguements you might have heard about giving women the vote (sub husband for parents). I'm all for teens having a say in the political world in which they exist.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 11:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've been in favor of extending more rights to minors since I was one; I now have adult children and I'd still like to see 16-year-olds have the right to make more decisions about their lives.
Voting... maybe? Local voting, definitely; larger voting... I can see both opportunities for abuse/coercion, and the problem that, as some psychiatrists have pointed out (to me in private discussions many years ago; no cites; sorry), there are biological issues of mental/emotional/social development at play. I tend to believe that, by 16, they're as ready as they're going to be to start making life decisions, but would be willing to entertain data to the contrary. I would definitely like some public discussion of the topic.
Also, I would like for any child who is "tried as an adult" to immediately be granted the full set of adult rights: Right to make a contract and a will, right to vote, right to own property in their own name, right to get medical treatment without adult consent... if they're mature enough to face prison for their actions, they're damn sure mature enough to decide whether or not to get a flu shot, and mature enough to help decide who should be running the place they live.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:10 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Voting... maybe? Local voting, definitely; larger voting... I can see both opportunities for abuse/coercion, and the problem that, as some psychiatrists have pointed out (to me in private discussions many years ago; no cites; sorry), there are biological issues of mental/emotional/social development at play. I tend to believe that, by 16, they're as ready as they're going to be to start making life decisions, but would be willing to entertain data to the contrary. I would definitely like some public discussion of the topic.
Also, I would like for any child who is "tried as an adult" to immediately be granted the full set of adult rights: Right to make a contract and a will, right to vote, right to own property in their own name, right to get medical treatment without adult consent... if they're mature enough to face prison for their actions, they're damn sure mature enough to decide whether or not to get a flu shot, and mature enough to help decide who should be running the place they live.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:10 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
We have more people in our city than in the entire state of Wyoming. We deserve representation, not to be absorbed into another entity with entirely different priorities.
One of the iron rules of American political history is that there are no city-states: not even Rhode Island. States are built in ways that dilute the power of large cities. That's mostly accidental, because rivers make good natural boundaries and cities grow on either side, but in practice it means competition and arbitrage across state lines instead of collaboration.
posted by holgate at 11:12 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the iron rules of American political history is that there are no city-states: not even Rhode Island. States are built in ways that dilute the power of large cities. That's mostly accidental, because rivers make good natural boundaries and cities grow on either side, but in practice it means competition and arbitrage across state lines instead of collaboration.
posted by holgate at 11:12 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
18 is the legal measure of adulthood for most purposes so using that for voting too makes sense to me.
It was formerly 21, which is when you're truly an adult in our culture. OTOH, we trust 16 year olds with heavy machinery, so I can see the case there too.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:12 AM on October 25, 2016
It was formerly 21, which is when you're truly an adult in our culture. OTOH, we trust 16 year olds with heavy machinery, so I can see the case there too.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:12 AM on October 25, 2016
Teenagers won't vote responsibly and they will vote how their parents tell them to are both arguments you might have heard about giving women the vote
And it's a perfectly valid analogy if you assume that adult women are mentally and emotionally comparable to 16 year-olds.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
And it's a perfectly valid analogy if you assume that adult women are mentally and emotionally comparable to 16 year-olds.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
18 is the legal measure of adulthood for most purposes so using that for voting too makes sense to me.
I think there should be one legal definition of adulthood for all purposes. Trying under-18s as adults when they can't vote or drink etc. is amoral. Any age is going to be arbitrary because some kids will be more mature than others but that would be true of pretty much any realistic legal age.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:15 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
That's a fair point re coercion, Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The. But re fully adult knuckleheads voting, even those adults have theoretically taken at least two rounds of civics/government/US history classes if they're high school graduates: one in elementary school, and one in high school. Maybe they failed, or maybe they didn't pay attention, but they took them. And naturalized citizens have to take a citizenship test. In a lot of districts, 16-year olds haven't even taken their last government/civics class. In my district, government was a class for seniors, many of whom were 17. So I'd prefer teenagers have some guidance and education in the way government and voting actually works before they vote.
Honestly, it'd be a pretty great idea to integrate actually voting with an actual government class, it's just obviously not feasible with the election cycle. But teens voting in local elections, especially for school boards where they have a very real stake? I'd be for that, and it could be the basis for some great lesson plans and curricula on citizenship and US history. Letting teenagers younger than 18 vote could be a good idea, I just think you have to overhaul high school history and civics education to do it, and that would take a national push and a really lot of fights with each individual state or even school district.
Even so you'd still get huge numbers of teenagers blowing it off just like they blow off their homework. When I say vote responsibly, I'm not talking about "vote in a way I think is responsible, i.e., liberal and unrealistically well-informed" I'm talking about the bare minimum of not writing in DEEZ NUTS or poop emoji for every single candidate just for the lolz. Like, we expect 16 year olds to take their written driving test seriously and fail them and deny them a permit/license if they don't. I'd prefer we apply some bare modicum of similar responsibility to teenagers voting.
As for choosing an age, 16 might be the best/easiest if only because 16 is when a lot of teens go get their learner's permits/driving licenses. It'd be a matter of adding a voter registration ticky box to those forms.
posted by yasaman at 11:16 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Honestly, it'd be a pretty great idea to integrate actually voting with an actual government class, it's just obviously not feasible with the election cycle. But teens voting in local elections, especially for school boards where they have a very real stake? I'd be for that, and it could be the basis for some great lesson plans and curricula on citizenship and US history. Letting teenagers younger than 18 vote could be a good idea, I just think you have to overhaul high school history and civics education to do it, and that would take a national push and a really lot of fights with each individual state or even school district.
Even so you'd still get huge numbers of teenagers blowing it off just like they blow off their homework. When I say vote responsibly, I'm not talking about "vote in a way I think is responsible, i.e., liberal and unrealistically well-informed" I'm talking about the bare minimum of not writing in DEEZ NUTS or poop emoji for every single candidate just for the lolz. Like, we expect 16 year olds to take their written driving test seriously and fail them and deny them a permit/license if they don't. I'd prefer we apply some bare modicum of similar responsibility to teenagers voting.
As for choosing an age, 16 might be the best/easiest if only because 16 is when a lot of teens go get their learner's permits/driving licenses. It'd be a matter of adding a voter registration ticky box to those forms.
posted by yasaman at 11:16 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
i, for one, welcome our new president deez nuts
posted by entropicamericana at 11:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
I think there should be one legal definition of adulthood for all purposes.
Disagree there. Dolling out responsibility/privilege seems wise.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Disagree there. Dolling out responsibility/privilege seems wise.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
> "And if DC was absorbed back into MD, they would have that. But it's a non-starter because it would diminish their influence."
No, it really wouldn't. A Congressional representative in Maryland represents a number of people which is pretty close to the population of the District. So if they became part of Maryland, they would move from having a single non-voting congressional delegate to having a single voting delegate with more power and influence, plus some say in senate representation which they currently have no say in at all.
They don't want to become part of Maryland for the same reason people in Rhode Island would bristle if you said they had to become part of Massachusetts, even if they didn't lose their senators. They don't think of themselves as being part of that polity.
Now, you can argue over whether or not they should think that way, but arguing that they would somehow lose power by getting an actual representative instead of the halfway almost-representative they have now is ridiculous.
posted by kyrademon at 11:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
No, it really wouldn't. A Congressional representative in Maryland represents a number of people which is pretty close to the population of the District. So if they became part of Maryland, they would move from having a single non-voting congressional delegate to having a single voting delegate with more power and influence, plus some say in senate representation which they currently have no say in at all.
They don't want to become part of Maryland for the same reason people in Rhode Island would bristle if you said they had to become part of Massachusetts, even if they didn't lose their senators. They don't think of themselves as being part of that polity.
Now, you can argue over whether or not they should think that way, but arguing that they would somehow lose power by getting an actual representative instead of the halfway almost-representative they have now is ridiculous.
posted by kyrademon at 11:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
This comment zipped by: A student raises his hand, and completely oblivious to the fact that he's making a statement with his choice of gendered pronouns, goes on to answer, "Well, the President, she has to...and she...and when she..." Teacher and I catch each other's eyes and share a knowing glance [...] It's completely within his frame of reference that our president can be a woman.
I guess it's within my frame of reference too - I grew up with Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, India's "Iron Lady". So I have to keep reminding myself that the United States has never had a woman Head of State before, and it will be something genuinely new here.
Luckily, my daughter will only live in a world with President Barack Hussein Obama and Madame President Hillary Clinton (my son is few months older than the Obama presidency), and I have no doubt that it will be completely mundane and unremarkable to her. I'll be very proud to cast my vote for that world.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
I guess it's within my frame of reference too - I grew up with Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, India's "Iron Lady". So I have to keep reminding myself that the United States has never had a woman Head of State before, and it will be something genuinely new here.
Luckily, my daughter will only live in a world with President Barack Hussein Obama and Madame President Hillary Clinton (my son is few months older than the Obama presidency), and I have no doubt that it will be completely mundane and unremarkable to her. I'll be very proud to cast my vote for that world.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:24 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
OTOH, we trust 16 year olds with heavy machinery, so I can see the case there too.
I can't believe the state of California gave me a license to drive at 16.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I can't believe the state of California gave me a license to drive at 16.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
The real question, tho, isn't "Should teenagers be allowed to vote?" It's "Should teenagers be allowed to run for President?" Because if they aren't, how will we ever elect Prez?
posted by octobersurprise at 11:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 11:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I got my learners permit in Michigan at 14 yrs. 9 months and in retrospect I am not sure why the Government of Michigan deems this an okay thing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:26 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
That said, DC's Congresscritters can vote in committee. New York City doesn't have that.
New York City can also spend their own local tax dollars without letting the Senators from Wyoming get a say. The idea that DC somehow has more representation than a regular city is asinine.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
New York City can also spend their own local tax dollars without letting the Senators from Wyoming get a say. The idea that DC somehow has more representation than a regular city is asinine.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
I think there should be one legal definition of adulthood for all purposes.
Disagree there. Dolling out responsibility/privilege seems wise.
I favorited both of these. While I don't agree that there should be a single, bright-line "YOU ARE NOW ADULT" test, whether that's age or something else, I do agree that, whatever standards we have decided on, need to be absolute. I don't like this "kids are adult at 18.... unless they're accused of particularly heinous crimes, in which case, maybe they're adult at 16, or 14, or 10... only, not really adult, just adult enough to face the same penalties we apply to people who have the rights to make their own decisions about where to live, what (if any) school to attend, what job to take, and so on."
I'd like varying degrees of adulthood. (We have that, sort of: Driving with permit as low as 14; driving solo at 16; voting & most other rights at 18; drinking at 21; car -rental at 25.) I just want the standards to be objective, not flexible based on the biases of whatever older adult the person is facing at the moment.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Disagree there. Dolling out responsibility/privilege seems wise.
I favorited both of these. While I don't agree that there should be a single, bright-line "YOU ARE NOW ADULT" test, whether that's age or something else, I do agree that, whatever standards we have decided on, need to be absolute. I don't like this "kids are adult at 18.... unless they're accused of particularly heinous crimes, in which case, maybe they're adult at 16, or 14, or 10... only, not really adult, just adult enough to face the same penalties we apply to people who have the rights to make their own decisions about where to live, what (if any) school to attend, what job to take, and so on."
I'd like varying degrees of adulthood. (We have that, sort of: Driving with permit as low as 14; driving solo at 16; voting & most other rights at 18; drinking at 21; car -rental at 25.) I just want the standards to be objective, not flexible based on the biases of whatever older adult the person is facing at the moment.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
octobersurprise: Is it also patronizing to say that thirteen year olds aren't sophisticated enough to drive cars on the road or carry guns to school? What about pets? Certainly pets are people, too. I say "One vote, one ambulatory lifeform."
One, did you seriously just equate teenagers with non-human animals? What kind of argument is that? Two, I was talking about 16-year-olds, an age at which our culture accords many privileges and responsibilities of adulthood to people: eligibility to drive, trial as an adult, age of consent (in many states anyway), etc. Basing your criticism on 13-year-olds voting is textbook strawmanning.
Here's my view: when I was 16, I thought I should be able to vote. I was a person with thoughts about the world, someone whose life was affected by decisions made from on high. I was also acutely aware of how frustrating it is to be a minor, a group which is literally treated like second-class citizens with less rights than arbitrarily-determined adults.
On preview, are you seriously trying to say "Teenagers blow off their homework at school, why should they be trusted to do their homework in the voting booth," yasaman? Were you ever a teenager yourself? Do you remember how shitty it was to be on the receiving end of that kind of sentiment from adults? That kind of trivialization and dismissing is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes brand new adults feel disempowered and disaffected before they even get a chance to get their feet under them in the world.
This discussion is reminding me that the one class in our society that it's still totally OK to be overtly prejudiced against is minors. People can and do say all kinds of dehumanizing, trivializing, pseudo-scientific, post-hoc-justifying, totally asinine things about minors, despite the fact that all adults used to be kids at one point. It's baffling, and it's also super gross. Fucking unbelievable.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
One, did you seriously just equate teenagers with non-human animals? What kind of argument is that? Two, I was talking about 16-year-olds, an age at which our culture accords many privileges and responsibilities of adulthood to people: eligibility to drive, trial as an adult, age of consent (in many states anyway), etc. Basing your criticism on 13-year-olds voting is textbook strawmanning.
Here's my view: when I was 16, I thought I should be able to vote. I was a person with thoughts about the world, someone whose life was affected by decisions made from on high. I was also acutely aware of how frustrating it is to be a minor, a group which is literally treated like second-class citizens with less rights than arbitrarily-determined adults.
On preview, are you seriously trying to say "Teenagers blow off their homework at school, why should they be trusted to do their homework in the voting booth," yasaman? Were you ever a teenager yourself? Do you remember how shitty it was to be on the receiving end of that kind of sentiment from adults? That kind of trivialization and dismissing is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes brand new adults feel disempowered and disaffected before they even get a chance to get their feet under them in the world.
This discussion is reminding me that the one class in our society that it's still totally OK to be overtly prejudiced against is minors. People can and do say all kinds of dehumanizing, trivializing, pseudo-scientific, post-hoc-justifying, totally asinine things about minors, despite the fact that all adults used to be kids at one point. It's baffling, and it's also super gross. Fucking unbelievable.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
Even so you'd still get huge numbers of teenagers blowing it off just like they blow off their homework.
Just like the 135 million adults who blew off voting four years ago, right?
I'm talking about the bare minimum of not writing in DEEZ NUTS or poop emoji for every single candidate just for the lolz.
This is completely ridiculous. If these kids are so lazy that they're "blowing off their homework", why would they bother to show up to a polling place to make a frivolous vote?
I'm trying not to be snippy with you, but when I was a kid in high school, it was adults like you, who used such cliches and contempt to deny that I could possibly make responsible decisions, that pissed me off the most.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Just like the 135 million adults who blew off voting four years ago, right?
I'm talking about the bare minimum of not writing in DEEZ NUTS or poop emoji for every single candidate just for the lolz.
This is completely ridiculous. If these kids are so lazy that they're "blowing off their homework", why would they bother to show up to a polling place to make a frivolous vote?
I'm trying not to be snippy with you, but when I was a kid in high school, it was adults like you, who used such cliches and contempt to deny that I could possibly make responsible decisions, that pissed me off the most.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:29 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Luckily, my daughter will only live in a world with President Barack Hussein Obama and Madame President Hillary Clinton (my son is few months older than the Obama presidency), and I have no doubt that it will be completely mundane and unremarkable to her. I'll be very proud to cast my vote for that world.
In three months *turns three times, curses, spits*, the United States, the United Kingdom and Germany will all be led by women.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
In three months *turns three times, curses, spits*, the United States, the United Kingdom and Germany will all be led by women.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
So if they became part of Maryland, they would move from having a single non-voting congressional delegate to having a single voting delegate with more power and influence, plus some say in senate representation which they currently have no say in at all.
They don't want to become part of Maryland for the same reason people in Rhode Island would bristle if you said they had to become part of Massachusetts, even if they didn't lose their senators. They don't think of themselves as being part of that polity.
Pity that.
New York City can also spend their own local tax dollars without letting the Senators from Wyoming get a say. The idea that DC somehow has more representation than a regular city is asinine.
Fair point, but, again, would (largely) be solved by becoming part of the surrounding state.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
They don't want to become part of Maryland for the same reason people in Rhode Island would bristle if you said they had to become part of Massachusetts, even if they didn't lose their senators. They don't think of themselves as being part of that polity.
Pity that.
New York City can also spend their own local tax dollars without letting the Senators from Wyoming get a say. The idea that DC somehow has more representation than a regular city is asinine.
Fair point, but, again, would (largely) be solved by becoming part of the surrounding state.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Fair point, but, again, would (largely) be solved by becoming part of the surrounding state.
Dying would solve all my problems that come with getting older, like needing reading glasses and being more prone to aches and pains. But I don't consider the loss of all my identity to be an appropriate price to pay for it.
posted by phearlez at 11:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Dying would solve all my problems that come with getting older, like needing reading glasses and being more prone to aches and pains. But I don't consider the loss of all my identity to be an appropriate price to pay for it.
posted by phearlez at 11:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
voting should be easier; getting a driver's license should be harder
posted by entropicamericana at 11:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Voting is easy; comedy is hard.
posted by Etrigan at 11:35 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:35 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also people shouldn't turn around and start shitting all over teenagers the second they stop being one.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:36 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
> I'm still lost on the importance of lawn signs. It blows my mind that these things sway anyone's opinion at all. Maybe if they carry a message, sure, but most have nothing but the candidate's name.
And people remember that name, and seeing a name they recognize may influence how they vote. Lots of people say "Advertising is bullshit, I don't buy stuff because I see ads for it!"... and yet advertising works. People are not rational, however much they think they are.
> Here's my view: when I was 16, I thought I should be able to vote. I was a person with thoughts about the world, someone whose live was affected by decisions made from on high. I was also acutely aware of how frustrating it is to be a minor, a group which is literally treated like second-class citizens with less rights than arbitrarily-determined adults.
Good lord, are you seriously trying to say "Teenagers think they can do anything, therefore they can do anything," Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The? Were you really a fully formed person with adult-equivalent understanding and knowledge at sixteen? And you still have to answer cjelli's question: on what basis would you draw the line at sixteen but not fifteen or seventeen? And what if a thirteen-year-old is sure—as sure as you were at sixteen—that they deserve to vote in national elections; do you say "Sure, then let 'em vote"?
posted by languagehat at 11:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
And people remember that name, and seeing a name they recognize may influence how they vote. Lots of people say "Advertising is bullshit, I don't buy stuff because I see ads for it!"... and yet advertising works. People are not rational, however much they think they are.
> Here's my view: when I was 16, I thought I should be able to vote. I was a person with thoughts about the world, someone whose live was affected by decisions made from on high. I was also acutely aware of how frustrating it is to be a minor, a group which is literally treated like second-class citizens with less rights than arbitrarily-determined adults.
Good lord, are you seriously trying to say "Teenagers think they can do anything, therefore they can do anything," Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The? Were you really a fully formed person with adult-equivalent understanding and knowledge at sixteen? And you still have to answer cjelli's question: on what basis would you draw the line at sixteen but not fifteen or seventeen? And what if a thirteen-year-old is sure—as sure as you were at sixteen—that they deserve to vote in national elections; do you say "Sure, then let 'em vote"?
posted by languagehat at 11:37 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait.
All we need to make Puerto Rico the 51st state is a Democratic congress??
What are the odds we get this miracle?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
All we need to make Puerto Rico the 51st state is a Democratic congress??
What are the odds we get this miracle?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
At 16 I was working a job (paying taxes), getting pulled over by the police on the way home from work because my town had passed a universal 11 PM curfew for minors (you could get arrested and strip searched under this curfew), and watching more news than my parents. 16 year-old me probably had more political knowledge than most 40 year-olds do today. And I could have been charged as an adult for a serious crime, so clearly society thought I was mentally developed at least when it comes to moral reasoning.
If a minor can pass the GED (with maybe a supplemental civics section), I can't see a reason to not let them vote. What's the downside? A bunch of enthusiastic well-informed voters flooding the polls after society recognizes their inherent agency? Oh no.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
If a minor can pass the GED (with maybe a supplemental civics section), I can't see a reason to not let them vote. What's the downside? A bunch of enthusiastic well-informed voters flooding the polls after society recognizes their inherent agency? Oh no.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
ChurchHatesTucker: "Fair point, but, again, would (largely) be solved by becoming part of the surrounding state."
Granting statehood to Washington DC would solve the problem entirely.
Of course, Republicans don't want to do that because the new DC state would be Blue. So DC residents get taxation without representation.
posted by zarq at 11:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Granting statehood to Washington DC would solve the problem entirely.
Of course, Republicans don't want to do that because the new DC state would be Blue. So DC residents get taxation without representation.
posted by zarq at 11:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
It just seems strange that I couldn't vote when I was 15, but I could drink beer, drive my parents' car when they were on vacation, and smoke weed.
Oh wait...
Heh heh heh. Good times.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Oh wait...
Heh heh heh. Good times.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also people shouldn't turn around and start shitting all over teenagers the second they stop being one.
I haven't been a teenager in almost 30 years, and looking back, even though I was relatively smart, well-read and politically active, I was still an idiot.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
I haven't been a teenager in almost 30 years, and looking back, even though I was relatively smart, well-read and politically active, I was still an idiot.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Someone who advocates lowering the voting age to 16 has explicitly not endorsed lowering the voting age to 13, so I don't know why people are demanding that the latter be defended by the former.
No, I take that back. I know exactly why.
posted by Etrigan at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2016
No, I take that back. I know exactly why.
posted by Etrigan at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2016
the one class in our society that it's still totally OK to be overtly prejudiced against is
It really doesn't matter how you complete this sentence, it's still nonsense.
posted by Lexica at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
It really doesn't matter how you complete this sentence, it's still nonsense.
posted by Lexica at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
As far as I'm concerned, if 16 and 17 year olds with the right to vote in local elections choose to "blow it off" and not vote, that's swell. The most likely outcome is that, like many 18 year olds, not to mention many older citizens, a good proportion won't vote (turnout is generally under 40% in local off-year elections here, and while I don't have good data on the age distribution of that, I'm pretty confident it's tilted older). And that's ok. Some will vote, and they seem at least as likely to do their homework on the choices as anyone else.
I have to think actual current high school students who are interested in voting are at least as likely to care about who's on the school board as me, a childless adult. School board races don't get a ton of attention here: most well-informed voters are going off some endorsements from people they trust.
If some kind of ripped-out-of-a-movie ridiculous situation occurs where school board members start campaigning on a "everybody gets straight As, all academic work is banned, and every high school will serve free beer at lunch," I think that situation could be addressed within the democratic process.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I have to think actual current high school students who are interested in voting are at least as likely to care about who's on the school board as me, a childless adult. School board races don't get a ton of attention here: most well-informed voters are going off some endorsements from people they trust.
If some kind of ripped-out-of-a-movie ridiculous situation occurs where school board members start campaigning on a "everybody gets straight As, all academic work is banned, and every high school will serve free beer at lunch," I think that situation could be addressed within the democratic process.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Do I have to answer that question? I was throwing out an idea, not submitting a piece of legislation. And anyway, as I already said, 16 is an age at which we start according many adult privileges and responsibilities to people. If we don't think they're educated enough to vote, maybe it's on us to educate them better rather than to just disenfranchise them.
If you want to make the argument that people should be eligible to vote based on whether they're capable of forming cogent opinions about the candidates and issues, then just come out and say you think people should have to pass a test to be able to vote. Otherwise, 18 is just as arbitrary as any other age.
Given that it's arbitrary, why not lower the voting age by a couple of years? Are 16-year-olds really that much more immature than 18-year-olds? I don't recall that being the case.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you want to make the argument that people should be eligible to vote based on whether they're capable of forming cogent opinions about the candidates and issues, then just come out and say you think people should have to pass a test to be able to vote. Otherwise, 18 is just as arbitrary as any other age.
Given that it's arbitrary, why not lower the voting age by a couple of years? Are 16-year-olds really that much more immature than 18-year-olds? I don't recall that being the case.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also people shouldn't turn around and start shitting all over teenagers the second they stop being one.
Rest assured, I was shitting all over teenagers long before I became one, while I was one, and since I have aged out. The closest analog I can think of to adolescence is that time I got a high dose glucocorticoid shot and temporarily lost my mind.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Rest assured, I was shitting all over teenagers long before I became one, while I was one, and since I have aged out. The closest analog I can think of to adolescence is that time I got a high dose glucocorticoid shot and temporarily lost my mind.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
the one class in our society that it's still totally OK to be overtly prejudiced against is
It really doesn't matter how you complete this sentence, it's still nonsense.
Rory/Jess shippers.
posted by Etrigan at 11:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
It really doesn't matter how you complete this sentence, it's still nonsense.
Rory/Jess shippers.
posted by Etrigan at 11:43 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Mod note: Couple of comments deleted. Folks, this is already getting pretty far afield into DC statehood and teens voting; it seems like the positions have been stated and it's not going to be very rewarding to get into angrier restatements or goading jokey exaggerations. Maybe let's bring it back around to the election.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
> If a minor can pass the GED (with maybe a supplemental civics section), I can't see a reason to not let them vote. What's the downside?
We do not have examinations for voting eligibility in this country*, because it is discriminatory. The downside to your scheme is that you will have created a system that favors the opinions of the well-educated (and hence well-heeled & non-ESL) minor citizens over those of less well-off minor citizens.
* Given that someone is already citizen. I am fully aware that the naturalization process involves a test!
posted by Westringia F. at 11:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
We do not have examinations for voting eligibility in this country*, because it is discriminatory. The downside to your scheme is that you will have created a system that favors the opinions of the well-educated (and hence well-heeled & non-ESL) minor citizens over those of less well-off minor citizens.
* Given that someone is already citizen. I am fully aware that the naturalization process involves a test!
posted by Westringia F. at 11:46 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Since "being informed" and "capable of fancy cognition" are not things we require in voters over 18, I think that using them as reasons to deny teenagers the vote is a little specious. I'd rather have teens voting than have intelligence tests for adult voters, and it seems like if we're going to say that teens can't vote because they're not informed/mature enough we're going to have to start testing adults, which is going to go pear shaped really fast.
Voting age is obviously going to be a bit arbitrary and will exclude at least some people who have the knowledge and interest to be good voters - if we say it's 13 and up, for instance, what about the really bright policy-nut 12-year-old?
But I think that the goal should be to expand the franchise up to the point where most members of the youngest age group can grasp the issues in a general way and form opinions when they trouble to do so. There's no reason that most sixteen year olds can't understand most of the nuts and bolts issues of elections, and probably most thirteen year olds could too for that matter.
posted by Frowner at 11:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Voting age is obviously going to be a bit arbitrary and will exclude at least some people who have the knowledge and interest to be good voters - if we say it's 13 and up, for instance, what about the really bright policy-nut 12-year-old?
But I think that the goal should be to expand the franchise up to the point where most members of the youngest age group can grasp the issues in a general way and form opinions when they trouble to do so. There's no reason that most sixteen year olds can't understand most of the nuts and bolts issues of elections, and probably most thirteen year olds could too for that matter.
posted by Frowner at 11:47 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Developmentally, IIRC, people around 11-15 are typically really concerned with issues of justice and fairness - that's the age when it tends to kick in.
posted by Frowner at 11:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 11:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Swing state voter report! [Texas edition]
Whatever it might be a swing state this election. Early voted at the same place I always go to, the line was about 30 minutes long, a bit shorter than voting on primary day but much longer than other early voting experiences I remember. No hint of anything untoward, although I had to ask for my sticker because the poll worker forgot to give me mine.
Also I drove a coworker there and we talked about how awful Trump was and stuff and then at lunch he mentioned he voted for Johnson. I feel so betrayed.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Whatever it might be a swing state this election. Early voted at the same place I always go to, the line was about 30 minutes long, a bit shorter than voting on primary day but much longer than other early voting experiences I remember. No hint of anything untoward, although I had to ask for my sticker because the poll worker forgot to give me mine.
Also I drove a coworker there and we talked about how awful Trump was and stuff and then at lunch he mentioned he voted for Johnson. I feel so betrayed.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
All we need to make Puerto Rico the 51st state is a Democratic congress??
What are the odds we get this miracle?
Puerto Ricans seem to be not entirely sure if they want to go the statehood route or the independence route (or stay in the current limbo status). So that's a pretty big wrinkle - it's not just a matter of getting a Dem majority in both houses, it's also up to Puerto Ricans to come to consensus on one of three options that they're rather divided on.
But yeah, that aside Congress has the power to admit states. (And speaking as a partisan, let's say the House goes very narrowly Democratic - the four or five new reps and two senators would be a welcome bolster for the 2018 midterms.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
What are the odds we get this miracle?
Puerto Ricans seem to be not entirely sure if they want to go the statehood route or the independence route (or stay in the current limbo status). So that's a pretty big wrinkle - it's not just a matter of getting a Dem majority in both houses, it's also up to Puerto Ricans to come to consensus on one of three options that they're rather divided on.
But yeah, that aside Congress has the power to admit states. (And speaking as a partisan, let's say the House goes very narrowly Democratic - the four or five new reps and two senators would be a welcome bolster for the 2018 midterms.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:49 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dammit, LobsterMitten
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:50 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:50 AM on October 25, 2016
Swing state voter report! [Texas edition]
I'm still a Texaskeptic but this does, honestly, give me life
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm still a Texaskeptic but this does, honestly, give me life
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I turn 40 this week. I'm relatively smart, well-read and politically active. I'm still an idiot.
posted by Roommate at 11:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 11:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
Voting is easy; comedy is hard.
When real life events become more ridiculous than professional comedy writers can come up with, comedy gets harder. Also comedians under 18 are one of the worst things on YouTube.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:52 AM on October 25, 2016
When real life events become more ridiculous than professional comedy writers can come up with, comedy gets harder. Also comedians under 18 are one of the worst things on YouTube.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:52 AM on October 25, 2016
The Obama Mean Tweets had him breathing fire. Especially the last one. Complete with mic...er cell phone drop.
posted by zabuni at 11:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by zabuni at 11:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Meanwhile, Trump is doing great: Health-Coverage Confusion as Trump Attacks ‘Horrible’ Obamacare
He held a weird event at his Doral golf course where his employees got up and talked about how great he is, then got confused about his employees' health care:
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
He held a weird event at his Doral golf course where his employees got up and talked about how great he is, then got confused about his employees' health care:
With his fellow Republicans using the 2017 Affordable Care Act premium increases a cudgel to hammer Democrats, Donald Trump on Tuesday suggested his resort employees are being harmed by the 2010 health care law — before reversing himself later in the morning.So his employees "are having a tremendous problem with Obamacare," except Trump provides health insurance for them and they don't use Obamacare, so nobody has been able to identify the nature of the tremendous problem.
With about 200 employees from three of Mr. Trump’s south Florida properties standing behind him, the Republican presidential nominee asserted the health-care law has harmed his workers’ health care.
...
David Feder, Trump Doral’s general manager, said after Mr. Trump’s event that the resort provides health insurance coverage to nearly all of the resort’s 1,200 employees.
“There really isn’t a need for the vast majority of our employees to purchase Obamacare,” Mr. Feder said.
...
Later, during an interview on Fox News, Mr. Trump said his employees don’t use the Affordable Care Act at all.
“I don’t use much Obamacare, to be honest with you,” he said. “I’m at Trump National Doral and we don’t use Obamacare. We don’t want it.”
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
I turn 40 this week. I'm relatively smart, well-read and politically active. I'm still an idiot.
I have some bad news for you...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have some bad news for you...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Listening to reports of Trump's interviews is exactly what arguing with my 8-year-old is like.
posted by jferg at 11:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by jferg at 11:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
All we need to make Puerto Rico the 51st state is a Democratic congress?? What are the odds we get this miracle?The Puerto Rico statehood plebiscite was slightly misleading--while the majority of voters voted yes on changing the island's political status, hundreds of thousands of voters skipped the second question that identified various potential status changes, including statehood. During the same vote, Puerto Ricans also ousted one of their biggest statehood advocates from office, so it's sort of difficult to tell what they really want.
posted by xyzzy at 11:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe Trump's employees have a tremendous problem with their under-26 dependents getting coverage??
posted by theodolite at 11:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 11:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Granting statehood to Washington DC would solve the problem entirely.
Maryland (in 1788) and Virginia (in 1790) ceded territory to the federal government under the "District Clause" of Article I of the Constitution so the national capital would be on neutral ground not controlled by a specific state. In 1846 Alexandria County (now Arlington County) was retroceded to Virginia; one of the issues was the loss of representation.
The 23rd Amendment gives DC as many electoral votes as the least populous state (as of 2010 five states had smaller populations).
Since DC is a special case it seems to me there would need to be a Constitutional amendment to make it a state (which would include repealing the District Clause and the 23rd Amendment).
posted by kirkaracha at 12:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
“I don’t use much Obamacare, to be honest with you,” he said. “I’m at Trump National Doral and we don’t use Obamacare. We don’t want it.”
Like, this sounds like he doesn't even understand what it is. You don't "sign up for Obamacare" like you sign up for Medicare. You buy health insurance because the Affordable Care Act says you need to if your employer doesn't offer it. And now that insurance your employer provides needs to be more comprehensive.
posted by dnash at 12:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
Like, this sounds like he doesn't even understand what it is. You don't "sign up for Obamacare" like you sign up for Medicare. You buy health insurance because the Affordable Care Act says you need to if your employer doesn't offer it. And now that insurance your employer provides needs to be more comprehensive.
posted by dnash at 12:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
Like, this sounds like he doesn't even understand what it is.
Why should this be any different from every other issue?
posted by Etrigan at 12:03 PM on October 25, 2016 [22 favorites]
Why should this be any different from every other issue?
posted by Etrigan at 12:03 PM on October 25, 2016 [22 favorites]
Re: teens getting the vote, my 17yo daughter, a senior in high school, is LIVID about not being able to vote. In fact, her whole cohort is seriously following the election, horrified by the election, making memes about the election, and talking about all the issues—especially where they concern matters of social justice—in way more depth than, say, some of my peers. They are passionate and angry, and, frankly, terrified. They want to be able to participate in the process, because right now they feel very helpless in the face of everything, and don't have much faith in the adults around them to be able to represent their points of view and concerns about the future.
posted by mothershock at 12:04 PM on October 25, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by mothershock at 12:04 PM on October 25, 2016 [36 favorites]
The proposed state constitution for the District of Columbia retains the core downtown, where all the federal buildings are, as the federal district, while removing the residential areas and forming a state out of that. This removes the problem of needing a constitutional amendment.
(At 17, I canvased for that constitution, and the next year registered to vote as a member of the DC Statehood Party.)
posted by Quasirandom at 12:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
(At 17, I canvased for that constitution, and the next year registered to vote as a member of the DC Statehood Party.)
posted by Quasirandom at 12:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
He said they do abortions the day before birth and in Canada you have to wait a week to see a doctor, what a surprise he's not totally clear about ACA mandates
posted by theodolite at 12:07 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:07 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
There are a lot of representation rights that could be granted to DC without having to mess with the 23rd Amendment. For my part, I feel like we should grant as many of them as possible, post-haste. This is supposed to be a democracy.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Years ago, I did a couple of blog posts with link roundups about Adult Privilege; because of this thread, I've gone back through and added Wayback Machine links to the posts I could find there.
I haven't reviewed all the conversations recently, but I still agree with the basic premise: personhood should not wait to begin at 18.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I haven't reviewed all the conversations recently, but I still agree with the basic premise: personhood should not wait to begin at 18.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mothershock - that was exactly my situation in 1988. I was 17. I turned 18 in December. I was furious that I didn't get to vote, but perhaps it helped to shape the activist I am today.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
He said they do abortions the day before birth and in Canada you have to wait a week to see a doctor
Canadian doctors just come into your house and murder your six-day-old child. Horrible, just horrible.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [65 favorites]
Canadian doctors just come into your house and murder your six-day-old child. Horrible, just horrible.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [65 favorites]
mothershock: In fact, her whole cohort is seriously following the election, horrified by the election, making memes about the election, and talking about all the issues—especially where they concern matters of social justice—in way more depth than, say, some of my peers.
Please please please tell her about the midterms, and how important they'll be.
posted by clawsoon at 12:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Please please please tell her about the midterms, and how important they'll be.
posted by clawsoon at 12:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Has PPP ever had a survey question like:
Q: What is the main feature of Obamacare?
-Your new doctor is a liberal
-Free drugs for black people
-Individual mandate, subsidies, and state insurance exchanges
-Soda is illegal now
-Other
posted by theodolite at 12:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Q: What is the main feature of Obamacare?
-Your new doctor is a liberal
-Free drugs for black people
-Individual mandate, subsidies, and state insurance exchanges
-Soda is illegal now
-Other
posted by theodolite at 12:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
At what point did it become completely unthinkable to pass constitutional amendments, anyway? There are 27 of them on record (17 if you leave out the Bill of Rights) but nowadays anytime someone says "we couldn't do that without a constitutional amendment," everyone just throws their hands up in the air because obviously that will never happen. What clearer evidence could there be that our democracy isn't functioning as designed?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Clinton's doing a rally right now in Florida talking about renewable energy and affordable college and good jobs that don't require a college degree. All good stuff.
I don't know how she does it - I'm exhausted just listening to her, and I'm amazed her voice isn't more hoarse than it is. Getting past November 8 has got to be a huge mental relief for her, but it's not like she even really gets to take a break at that point.
posted by Salieri at 12:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't know how she does it - I'm exhausted just listening to her, and I'm amazed her voice isn't more hoarse than it is. Getting past November 8 has got to be a huge mental relief for her, but it's not like she even really gets to take a break at that point.
posted by Salieri at 12:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
So over the last week I've read a bunch of articles about Hillary's quiet transition team and speculation about her picks for Sec. of Treasury and the progressive pushback she's likely to get if she asks, say, someone who works for Facebook to run Treasury. What's been missing from every article I've read is the progressive alternative pick. Has anyone read any liberal speculation or recommendations along these lines?
posted by xyzzy at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
But I think that the goal should be to expand the franchise up to the point where most members of the youngest age group can grasp the issues in a general way and form opinions when they trouble to do so. There's no reason that most sixteen year olds can't understand most of the nuts and bolts issues of elections, and probably most thirteen year olds could too for that matter.
However, at 13 and perhaps 16 they likely have not yet joined the work force and many are probably being supported by their parents or guardians. One's worldview changes when one has to earn a living, pay taxes for the general community, learn to budget and support oneself independently.
We can argue that some adults don't ever learn those skills, but the truth is that a majority do.
It took 30 years for the federal voting age to be lowered from 21 to 18. The 26th Amendment was ratified when Nixon was in office. But the movement to lower the voting age began the day FDR lowered the draft age from 21 to 18 during WWII. Their rallying cry: "Old enough to fight, old enough to vote." We were treating them as no differently than adults, so there was agreement nationwide that they should be given the responsibility. But 16 year olds and 13 year olds are not adults in our society. Some things would have to change for them to be viewed that way.
That said, I think a really strong argument could be made for lowering the voting age to 16 -- and fwiw, I'd personally be in favor of it. But below that would probably be an uphill battle.
posted by zarq at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
However, at 13 and perhaps 16 they likely have not yet joined the work force and many are probably being supported by their parents or guardians. One's worldview changes when one has to earn a living, pay taxes for the general community, learn to budget and support oneself independently.
We can argue that some adults don't ever learn those skills, but the truth is that a majority do.
It took 30 years for the federal voting age to be lowered from 21 to 18. The 26th Amendment was ratified when Nixon was in office. But the movement to lower the voting age began the day FDR lowered the draft age from 21 to 18 during WWII. Their rallying cry: "Old enough to fight, old enough to vote." We were treating them as no differently than adults, so there was agreement nationwide that they should be given the responsibility. But 16 year olds and 13 year olds are not adults in our society. Some things would have to change for them to be viewed that way.
That said, I think a really strong argument could be made for lowering the voting age to 16 -- and fwiw, I'd personally be in favor of it. But below that would probably be an uphill battle.
posted by zarq at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Greetings friends. "Should DC get statehood" and "should teens get the vote" are both things that could have their own FPP if people really want to drill down further on those; otherwise in here let's nudge it back toward election.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
To bring the should teens vote derail back around to something approaching on topic, I'm a proponent of better education, not discriminatory examinations for voter eligibility. This election cycle more than any other has convinced me that media literacy and critical thinking are absolutely crucial life skills that have been horrifyingly neglected in our educational system, judging by how easily and thoroughly anti-fact and anti-expertise views have taken root in the populace. It's not like I think "if only everyone were educated/smart enough, they'd all be liberals!" but jeeze, it seems like media literacy could at the very least be the start of an effective vaccine against the horrifying slide into actual fascism that Trump represents.
But I guess the question is, is it just part of human nature to fall prey to the kind of anti-fact epistemic closure typified by Fox News and Trump supporters? Can you educate a populace into immunity against fascism? If you drain the right-wing media swamp like that WaPo article linked (way way) above suggests, can you start making inroads on including everyone together in a fact-based reality as opposed to the bizarre, seemingly intractable polarity we have now?
posted by yasaman at 12:14 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
But I guess the question is, is it just part of human nature to fall prey to the kind of anti-fact epistemic closure typified by Fox News and Trump supporters? Can you educate a populace into immunity against fascism? If you drain the right-wing media swamp like that WaPo article linked (way way) above suggests, can you start making inroads on including everyone together in a fact-based reality as opposed to the bizarre, seemingly intractable polarity we have now?
posted by yasaman at 12:14 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Early voting started today in Hawaii; I get to vote in less than 6 hours!
Some local news from Civil Beat:
Hawaii State Senate May Soon Be All Democrats
Judge: Angela Kaaihue’s Name To Remain On Ballot — Twice (she's the super racist Republican running against Tulsi Gabbard in the 2nd district, but also somehow running as a Democrat in the 1st district)
Why Some Hawaii Women Still Like Donald Trump
A Third US Senator For Hawaii? (re: Tammy Duckworth)
posted by melissasaurus at 12:14 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Some local news from Civil Beat:
Hawaii State Senate May Soon Be All Democrats
Judge: Angela Kaaihue’s Name To Remain On Ballot — Twice (she's the super racist Republican running against Tulsi Gabbard in the 2nd district, but also somehow running as a Democrat in the 1st district)
Why Some Hawaii Women Still Like Donald Trump
A Third US Senator For Hawaii? (re: Tammy Duckworth)
posted by melissasaurus at 12:14 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Can you educate a populace into immunity against fascism?
No. Because fascism can often been seen in the populace as a feature not a bug.
posted by Talez at 12:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
No. Because fascism can often been seen in the populace as a feature not a bug.
posted by Talez at 12:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can you educate a populace into immunity against fascism?
You'd have to get them to agree that fascism is a bad thing first.
posted by zarq at 12:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
You'd have to get them to agree that fascism is a bad thing first.
posted by zarq at 12:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
No. Because fascism can often been seen in the populace as a feature not a bug.
This is because of a lack of education, in my opinion. I think facism can only grow with ignorance as its fertilizer.
posted by Mooski at 12:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is because of a lack of education, in my opinion. I think facism can only grow with ignorance as its fertilizer.
posted by Mooski at 12:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
The really dumb thing is that attacking Obamacare ought to be an easy win for Trump. All he had to do was rant semi-coherently about premiums going up and he would have had an effective attack going. But he managed to flub that up by contradicting himself within an hour about its effects on his employees. I can only imagine what Conway is thinking.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
It was a two and a half hour drive to the Sunday rally, and I took the opportunity to listen to the Hamilton soundtrack for the first time. So many pieces from these election threads came together!
Why has no one rejoiced over this new convert??? This is the day's big headline.
Regarding signs, I have been surprised to notice a significant uptick in the number of yard signs in the last few days, at least in the neighborhoods I run in. Even more surprising: ALL of the top-of-the-ticket signs I've noticed have been for Clinton-Kaine. (The only Trump sign I've seen around has been up for a couple of months, at least.) My neighborhood probably isn't representative of the Valley as a whole, but it's an older, established area in central Phoenix, so perhaps not one where you'd expect to find a lot of Democrats. I definitely saw plenty of Romney signs in 2012.
Even more encouraging, there are LOADS of Penzone signs. It's going to be so very satisfying to kick Joe Arpaio out on his pasty, bloated, racist fuckwad ass.
I'm not sure how I feel about giving teenagers the right to vote, but I do love seeing so many of them volunteering at the Democratic Party headquarters. They are passionate and engaged and getting a practical education in the political process, especially regarding local politics, which aren't often addressed in much detail in school. By volunteering they have a way of playing an active part in the electoral process, and when they do reach voting age they'll be very well informed and positioned to take on leadership roles, if they so desire. I wish I'd done something similar at that age.
posted by Superplin at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Why has no one rejoiced over this new convert??? This is the day's big headline.
Regarding signs, I have been surprised to notice a significant uptick in the number of yard signs in the last few days, at least in the neighborhoods I run in. Even more surprising: ALL of the top-of-the-ticket signs I've noticed have been for Clinton-Kaine. (The only Trump sign I've seen around has been up for a couple of months, at least.) My neighborhood probably isn't representative of the Valley as a whole, but it's an older, established area in central Phoenix, so perhaps not one where you'd expect to find a lot of Democrats. I definitely saw plenty of Romney signs in 2012.
Even more encouraging, there are LOADS of Penzone signs. It's going to be so very satisfying to kick Joe Arpaio out on his pasty, bloated, racist fuckwad ass.
I'm not sure how I feel about giving teenagers the right to vote, but I do love seeing so many of them volunteering at the Democratic Party headquarters. They are passionate and engaged and getting a practical education in the political process, especially regarding local politics, which aren't often addressed in much detail in school. By volunteering they have a way of playing an active part in the electoral process, and when they do reach voting age they'll be very well informed and positioned to take on leadership roles, if they so desire. I wish I'd done something similar at that age.
posted by Superplin at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I can only imagine what Conway is thinking.
"I hate Hillary Clinton." [End of thoughts]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
"I hate Hillary Clinton." [End of thoughts]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Has PPP ever had a survey question like
Just follow them on Twitter. A lot of the time Tom Jensen (who runs the company as well as the Twitter account) will ask his followers what kind of questions they should ask, and they'll take even goofy suggestions seriously. That's how we know Jill Stein polls lower than Harambe.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Just follow them on Twitter. A lot of the time Tom Jensen (who runs the company as well as the Twitter account) will ask his followers what kind of questions they should ask, and they'll take even goofy suggestions seriously. That's how we know Jill Stein polls lower than Harambe.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is because of a lack of education, in my opinion. I think facism can only grow with ignorance as its fertilizer.
Well-educated bigots who embrace authoritarianism aren't exactly rare in this country.
posted by zarq at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Well-educated bigots who embrace authoritarianism aren't exactly rare in this country.
posted by zarq at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
He said they do abortions the day before birth and in Canada you have to wait a week to see a doctor
so if you put the two together -- logically, single payer should eliminate the problem? I see uncleozzy already made the joke.
<rant>
Anyway, as per the usual Trump isn't even wrong, as opposed to the media which are just old-fashioned misleading-tending-toward-wrong. All Obamacare does to him is force him to offer affordable comprehensive health insurance to his FT employees.
So here's the deal. Insurance premiums went up. Just like every year since forever, except now every year when it happens Republicans have a shiny new stick to beat the Dems with.
Sticker price for premiums, however, does not equal actual premium price paid. (Thanks, Obama!) That's because an average plan (the second-lowest-cost Silver plan in any given area, to be precise) is taken as a benchmark and the subsidies are based on the cost of that plan compared to the buyer's income.
So if the cost of the benchmark plan goes from $175 to $200 per month, and your income didn't change, then your subsidy amount is going to go up about $25 as well. Now, maybe your particular plan went from $300 to $400, in which case yeah you're looking at a net $75 increase in this case. But that just means you need to look at the plan, see if there's different or better options for you. Just yesterday, the Marketplace plans for 2017 went up so people can go play around there and see what their options will be. (That's what I spent 9 hours analyzing yesterday, but to be fair it is my day job.)
Are the media covering all this? OH NO. It's like higher sticker-price premiums are the final horseman of the Apocalypse.
Let me know when they start covering higher average rents, speaking of things that are too damn high. But no, that only hurts the poors.
</rant>
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [38 favorites]
<rant>
Anyway, as per the usual Trump isn't even wrong, as opposed to the media which are just old-fashioned misleading-tending-toward-wrong. All Obamacare does to him is force him to offer affordable comprehensive health insurance to his FT employees.
So here's the deal. Insurance premiums went up. Just like every year since forever, except now every year when it happens Republicans have a shiny new stick to beat the Dems with.
Sticker price for premiums, however, does not equal actual premium price paid. (Thanks, Obama!) That's because an average plan (the second-lowest-cost Silver plan in any given area, to be precise) is taken as a benchmark and the subsidies are based on the cost of that plan compared to the buyer's income.
So if the cost of the benchmark plan goes from $175 to $200 per month, and your income didn't change, then your subsidy amount is going to go up about $25 as well. Now, maybe your particular plan went from $300 to $400, in which case yeah you're looking at a net $75 increase in this case. But that just means you need to look at the plan, see if there's different or better options for you. Just yesterday, the Marketplace plans for 2017 went up so people can go play around there and see what their options will be. (That's what I spent 9 hours analyzing yesterday, but to be fair it is my day job.)
Are the media covering all this? OH NO. It's like higher sticker-price premiums are the final horseman of the Apocalypse.
Let me know when they start covering higher average rents, speaking of things that are too damn high. But no, that only hurts the poors.
</rant>
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [38 favorites]
There were lots of well-educated Nazis, Mooski. It's more a matter of what is taught than how well it is taught. It's entirely possible to very effectively teach a populace that Fascism is right and natural and good. Ultimately it's a matter of indoctrination either way: do we teach our children that everyone should get equal rights and respect and that if we see injustice we should work to fix it, or do we teach them that some people are better than others and that it's the natural right of the "better" people to exploit the "other" ones?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
But I guess the question is, is it just part of human nature to fall prey to the kind of anti-fact epistemic closure typified by Fox News and Trump supporters?
Exacerbated by Google and Facebook algorithmically maximizing contentment by filling your space with like-minded voices.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2016
Exacerbated by Google and Facebook algorithmically maximizing contentment by filling your space with like-minded voices.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2016
Well-educated bigots who embrace authoritarianism aren't exactly rare in this country.
I don't disagree; I just think it requires the ignorance of the masses to follow them. A thousand facists do not a fascist state make.
posted by Mooski at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't disagree; I just think it requires the ignorance of the masses to follow them. A thousand facists do not a fascist state make.
posted by Mooski at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Can you educate a populace into immunity against fascism?You'd have to get them to agree that fascism is a bad thing first.
They'll decry it loudly, as long as you call it by name. If you, for example, enumerate the qualities of a certain mid-century Italian leader and then slowly lead up to "and then he should take control of all of the national government and use his newfound powers to invade the adjoining country, full of lesser people," they enthusiastically cheer for a strong charismatic leader who will bring the country back to the glory days of
posted by Mayor West at 12:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are the media covering all this? OH NO. It's like higher sticker-price premiums are the final horseman of the Apocalypse.
Darn liberal media!
posted by Gelatin at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2016
Darn liberal media!
posted by Gelatin at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2016
Sticker price for premiums, however, does not equal actual premium price paid. (Thanks, Obama!) That's because an average plan (the second-lowest-cost Silver plan in any given area, to be precise) is taken as a benchmark and the subsidies are based on the cost of that plan compared to the buyer's income.
This is all true, but not to throw water on a really good thing, but it's not perfect. Since the subsidies are based on the cost of the plans independent of the economy, that means more cost to the government, without necessarily having a corresponding revenue source to make up for it. It's also a real problem for the chunk of people who make too much to qualify for subsidies, but who don't have access to employer-sponsored plans and so must buy on the exchanges or the individual market. And lack of choice in some markets with insurers pulling out is a problem.
All of these are real problems and shouldn't be completely ignored in the service of political expediency, but the debate over important policy has been reduced to one side screaming "throw the whole thing away and replace it with nothing in particular," and so nothing gets done.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is all true, but not to throw water on a really good thing, but it's not perfect. Since the subsidies are based on the cost of the plans independent of the economy, that means more cost to the government, without necessarily having a corresponding revenue source to make up for it. It's also a real problem for the chunk of people who make too much to qualify for subsidies, but who don't have access to employer-sponsored plans and so must buy on the exchanges or the individual market. And lack of choice in some markets with insurers pulling out is a problem.
All of these are real problems and shouldn't be completely ignored in the service of political expediency, but the debate over important policy has been reduced to one side screaming "throw the whole thing away and replace it with nothing in particular," and so nothing gets done.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but tomorrow is Hillary's birthday. (October 26). Or if you live in India or eastwards, it already is her birthday.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Oh, in the interest of fairness I should say that some people with moderately low incomes do have to pay the full price for the plan, since the benchmark plan is technically affordable for them (less than a certain percentage of their income). For Chicago, I've seen a lot of young folks with income of about $30,000/year who were looking at $150-ish premiums for plans with pretty high deductibles last year and saying, thanks but I can't really afford that even if it's technically below 9.5% of my income. The same thing will probably be happening this year -- but the problem isn't the Obamacare system itself, it's just that the subsidies aren't quite generous enough to reach up into a good chunk of the lower middle class. It would really just take some tweaking to the subsidy amounts and percentages, it's not an indicator of systemic failure as much as an understandable recalibration that would need to be done whenever you have a huge new system like the ACA.
Of course, Democrats have known about this and other fixes that should really be done for years now, but the Republicans refuse to do anything as they prefer to stamp their feet and scream about tyranny.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
Of course, Democrats have known about this and other fixes that should really be done for years now, but the Republicans refuse to do anything as they prefer to stamp their feet and scream about tyranny.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
Attempting To Woo Latino Voters, Marco Rubio Gets Booed At Orlando Festival
World's smallest violin, folks.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
World's smallest violin, folks.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Colin Powell announced to a gathering in Long Island that he will be voting for HRC, citing her experience and stamina.
posted by xyzzy at 12:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
Mainstream media coverage of Trump seems to be getting more strained, or maybe my own "news" filter is all out of wack. But I just happened to catch this article on NBC News that showed up as a Flipboard notification on my phone. Apparently today is first day that Trump has answered questions from reporters since the first debate.
Could be just me, but the end of the article strikes me as a press that is getting real tired of this shit:
Could be just me, but the end of the article strikes me as a press that is getting real tired of this shit:
Trump's photo-op included testimonials from his own employees, who he repeatedly assured the press he did not tell them to say these things in advance. Trump invited his employees to come to the microphone after he finished his short remarks, with press huddled on the grass fringe in the back.posted by jeremias at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2016
I did some googling about this and couldn't find anything current: is there any mechanism by which Native Americans could get Native representatives in the House? Not by running for House seats in their states, but through the creation of specific seats on which tribal members can vote? After all, federally recognized tribes are governments under the federal government, just like the states are.
The Treaty of New Echota (1835), which was signed between the US government and a rump government that only represented the minority of the Cherokee nation, which contained the provision for removal to the west of the Mississippi River, also contained a provision that the Cherokee nation could get its own representative in Congress. Not sure if that is the best precedent, though.
posted by dhens at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Treaty of New Echota (1835), which was signed between the US government and a rump government that only represented the minority of the Cherokee nation, which contained the provision for removal to the west of the Mississippi River, also contained a provision that the Cherokee nation could get its own representative in Congress. Not sure if that is the best precedent, though.
posted by dhens at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Every time I hear moaning and groaning about this or that major problem in Obamacare, I always think to myself, "This is why we wanted Single Payer to begin with!" Obamacare is a Frankenstein's monster, it wasn't drafted the way it is because that was what anybody wanted, it was drafted that way because that was the only way it could get through. It's much better than the status quo ante, but it still kinda sucks because Republicans hamstrung it on purpose!
Instead of something beautiful and simple, we got a mess that just barely works right now and which will require a lot of adjusting and repairs before it's really long-term sustainable as a solution. It's still way better than the previous state of affairs—which was pretty much choking the country to death—but it's not very good. It's not very good because Republicans intentionally ruined it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [59 favorites]
Instead of something beautiful and simple, we got a mess that just barely works right now and which will require a lot of adjusting and repairs before it's really long-term sustainable as a solution. It's still way better than the previous state of affairs—which was pretty much choking the country to death—but it's not very good. It's not very good because Republicans intentionally ruined it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [59 favorites]
Those interested in voting rights for the non-state territories and District of Columbia should look at the We the People Project.
posted by dhens at 12:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dhens at 12:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
... Trump. All he had to do was rant semi-coherently about premiums going up and he would have had an effective attack
Trump... effective...
null pointer exception
Core dumped
posted by ctmf at 12:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump... effective...
null pointer exception
Core dumped
posted by ctmf at 12:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Obamacare is a Frankenstein's monster, it wasn't drafted the way it is because that was what anybody wanted, it was drafted that way because that was the only way it could get through.
Not just that, it was the Republicans' idea in the first place. Republicans created the idea of an insurance mandate as a counter to Hillary Clinton's attempts at health care reform in the early 90s. Every time they try to call it "socialism" now, they are lying their lying asses off because it's an entirely Republican plan.
posted by dnash at 12:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [22 favorites]
Not just that, it was the Republicans' idea in the first place. Republicans created the idea of an insurance mandate as a counter to Hillary Clinton's attempts at health care reform in the early 90s. Every time they try to call it "socialism" now, they are lying their lying asses off because it's an entirely Republican plan.
posted by dnash at 12:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [22 favorites]
Agreed, zachlipton. Also, it's kind of the same problem as the student loan schemes -- government can keep increasing subsidies but eventually the schools / insurers just ratchet up the prices and so the benefit ends up going from the government into the pockets of the entities providing the product.
Now with the ACA, state insurance departments typically can deny requested premium increases (or tell insurers they can't have as much increase as they wanted), but as far as I can tell they mostly get approved at the rates they request.
Every time I hear moaning and groaning about this or that major problem in Obamacare, I always think to myself, "This is why we wanted Single Payer to begin with!"
Yes. It's funny, whenever I explain to actual humans what single-payer is and how it works and is funded, they're at least cautiously open to it (even if they're FNC-propagandized with all the dumbass talking points about dying Canadian grannies). It helps that I used to live in Ontario and can be like, uh, yeah, no, that's not how it is.
I think even a lot of doctors and hospitals, which were historically leery of having to deal with the lower reimbursements and (perceived) added paperwork are starting to come around. It's just a ridiculous jerry-rigged system atop another patchwork of nightmares that only an actuary living in the very bowels of Hades could love.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Now with the ACA, state insurance departments typically can deny requested premium increases (or tell insurers they can't have as much increase as they wanted), but as far as I can tell they mostly get approved at the rates they request.
Every time I hear moaning and groaning about this or that major problem in Obamacare, I always think to myself, "This is why we wanted Single Payer to begin with!"
Yes. It's funny, whenever I explain to actual humans what single-payer is and how it works and is funded, they're at least cautiously open to it (even if they're FNC-propagandized with all the dumbass talking points about dying Canadian grannies). It helps that I used to live in Ontario and can be like, uh, yeah, no, that's not how it is.
I think even a lot of doctors and hospitals, which were historically leery of having to deal with the lower reimbursements and (perceived) added paperwork are starting to come around. It's just a ridiculous jerry-rigged system atop another patchwork of nightmares that only an actuary living in the very bowels of Hades could love.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
A note on signs (which will then tie back into the election itself) - so, a friend is a really, really avid Green Party member, and has been as long as I've known him. He and his girlfriend own a house in the Catskills, which they rent out and also use themselves now and then. And while New York State as a whole skews blue, parts of rural upstate definitely skew red. And...the town where their house is, skews red. I went to visit them at this house in 2008, in the run-up to the election; I had run to the corner store for something and was walking back towards their house, and had to laugh when I saw the series of lawn signs on their street. it went like:
McCain/Palin
McCain/Palin
McCain/Palin
McCain/Palin
VOTE GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McCain/Palin
McCalin/Palin
--
Speaking of that friend and this year's election - we talked about that recently, and he is voting for Jill Stein, but he knows she's not going to win, he knew that long ago. He gets mad at the vaccine slander stuff, but is under absolutely no illusion that she has a chance of winning. He also knows that there is vanishingly little chance of New York state being a close call.
But he also says that he came really, really close to changing his party affiliation so that he could vote in the primary and try to get Bernie Sanders in. Which surprised me - this is a guy that once broke up with someone because she wouldn't quit the Dems. (He was younger and considerably more stubborn then.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
McCain/Palin
McCain/Palin
McCain/Palin
McCain/Palin
VOTE GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McCain/Palin
McCalin/Palin
--
Speaking of that friend and this year's election - we talked about that recently, and he is voting for Jill Stein, but he knows she's not going to win, he knew that long ago. He gets mad at the vaccine slander stuff, but is under absolutely no illusion that she has a chance of winning. He also knows that there is vanishingly little chance of New York state being a close call.
But he also says that he came really, really close to changing his party affiliation so that he could vote in the primary and try to get Bernie Sanders in. Which surprised me - this is a guy that once broke up with someone because she wouldn't quit the Dems. (He was younger and considerably more stubborn then.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can you educate a populace into immunity against fascism?
So far we can't even really educate a populace.
posted by srboisvert at 12:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
So far we can't even really educate a populace.
posted by srboisvert at 12:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Mainstream media coverage of Trump seems to be getting more strained
The @AdvanceGuyNotes Twitter account is a really good insight into how rallies and other events are set up, and has been talking about how the last fortnight gets crazy and cranky: multiple events per day, hangar rallies, press running on no sleep and frazzled by all the travel who mostly hope for cold water and power and reliable wi-fi.
The Doral event was staged mostly as a promo for the resort and tomorrow's DC ribbon-cutter, and the sun was in the eyes of the press throughout. This late, probably a bad idea to test their bullshit tolerance thresholds. (Pence's hangar rally, where he ran from the plane to the soundtrack of 'All Right Now', had far better optics.)
posted by holgate at 12:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
The @AdvanceGuyNotes Twitter account is a really good insight into how rallies and other events are set up, and has been talking about how the last fortnight gets crazy and cranky: multiple events per day, hangar rallies, press running on no sleep and frazzled by all the travel who mostly hope for cold water and power and reliable wi-fi.
The Doral event was staged mostly as a promo for the resort and tomorrow's DC ribbon-cutter, and the sun was in the eyes of the press throughout. This late, probably a bad idea to test their bullshit tolerance thresholds. (Pence's hangar rally, where he ran from the plane to the soundtrack of 'All Right Now', had far better optics.)
posted by holgate at 12:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I envy you people with your early voting and your late-October "I voted!" stickers. I live in Rhode Island, and we can only get a mail-in ballot if you will be ill or out of town.
So I emailed our Secretary of State, Nellie Gorbea, to ask what I could do to help get early voting. (I even used a blind mailto: link on her home page, of all crazy, unlikely-ever-to-be-read things!) Lo and behold, about an hour later I received three or four long paragraphs of information from the department's Legislative Coordinator, with suggestions of what to do, and bills from the last session that support the idea.
Damn, I am amazed that there are parts of my sclerotic site government that are champing at the bit to move into thefuture present. This is awesome news!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [41 favorites]
So I emailed our Secretary of State, Nellie Gorbea, to ask what I could do to help get early voting. (I even used a blind mailto: link on her home page, of all crazy, unlikely-ever-to-be-read things!) Lo and behold, about an hour later I received three or four long paragraphs of information from the department's Legislative Coordinator, with suggestions of what to do, and bills from the last session that support the idea.
Damn, I am amazed that there are parts of my sclerotic site government that are champing at the bit to move into the
posted by wenestvedt at 1:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [41 favorites]
I'm close enough to the Old Post Office and I have to go to the regular post office tomorrow, it's right next door, might as well take a look at whatever'll be going on (last time I just scowled at his motorcade). If any other District folks are planning on doing same, memail me, let's meet up or something.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Another local note on signs: this past weekend, we drove through a funny little 'burb along the bosque (forested area along a river), a pleasant, cool splash of green (and yellow, orange and red this time of year) in the high desert near Albuquerque on our way to a little pumpkin patch.
Up to now, I've seen very few yard signs and billboards, mostly for local politicians, and a very few bumper stickers (one H> on an older four-door car, and then a Trumppence on a slow, pearly white Prius). Most yard signs have been for Gary Johnson, our home-state guy, which makes more sense than not.
But in this quaint, leafy community we saw a Trump sign in the wild, and my wife and I were startled. But then we saw a Clinton yard sign, and another Trump, then two more Clinton signs. On the way back home, I saw TRUMP spray painted on a larger sign for a local politician (I'm not sure if it was a Dem or a GOP candidate). Sadly, that small sampling was a 1:1 match, counting the graffiti sign as one for Donald.
Still, New Mexico is so blue that even if only men voted (source), we'd still be a blue state, so these signs are of no real significance to me.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Up to now, I've seen very few yard signs and billboards, mostly for local politicians, and a very few bumper stickers (one H> on an older four-door car, and then a Trumppence on a slow, pearly white Prius). Most yard signs have been for Gary Johnson, our home-state guy, which makes more sense than not.
But in this quaint, leafy community we saw a Trump sign in the wild, and my wife and I were startled. But then we saw a Clinton yard sign, and another Trump, then two more Clinton signs. On the way back home, I saw TRUMP spray painted on a larger sign for a local politician (I'm not sure if it was a Dem or a GOP candidate). Sadly, that small sampling was a 1:1 match, counting the graffiti sign as one for Donald.
Still, New Mexico is so blue that even if only men voted (source), we'd still be a blue state, so these signs are of no real significance to me.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
In fact, her whole cohort is seriously following the election, horrified by the election, making memes about the election, and talking about all the issues—especially where they concern matters of social justice—in way more depth than, say, some of my peers. They are passionate and angry, and, frankly, terrified. They want to be able to participate in the process, because right now they feel very helpless in the face of everything,
I'm not joining this debate; just taking a moment to ponder the fact that you could say this about many many people all over the world, regardless of age.
I feel like I should apologize, but I'm not sure exactly how that would go.
Dear Teens, Citizens of American Allies, and Concerned Others: Uh....We're Working On It...?
posted by invincible summer at 1:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not joining this debate; just taking a moment to ponder the fact that you could say this about many many people all over the world, regardless of age.
I feel like I should apologize, but I'm not sure exactly how that would go.
Dear Teens, Citizens of American Allies, and Concerned Others: Uh....We're Working On It...?
posted by invincible summer at 1:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
an insurance mandate as a counter to Hillary Clinton's attempts at health care reform
Personally, I still feel that we only ended up with this because Obama was running against Clinton in the primaries and wanted to differentiate his plan from hers. That it was a Republican based concept of course surely also made it a palatable option for use in the general election as well. While I accept people saying this was the only plan that could pass, I just can't entirely bring myself to believe that really. I don't know if that makes me cynical or that I view the people involved as such.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:17 PM on October 25, 2016
Personally, I still feel that we only ended up with this because Obama was running against Clinton in the primaries and wanted to differentiate his plan from hers. That it was a Republican based concept of course surely also made it a palatable option for use in the general election as well. While I accept people saying this was the only plan that could pass, I just can't entirely bring myself to believe that really. I don't know if that makes me cynical or that I view the people involved as such.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:17 PM on October 25, 2016
@alivitali Today's Trump term for the press: "bunch of phony low lifes."
@Olivianuzzi Trump says the media has "phony cameras" ??
Oh those phony low lifes with their phony cameras-- how dare they report on the God King Emperor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:17 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
@Olivianuzzi Trump says the media has "phony cameras" ??
Oh those phony low lifes with their phony cameras-- how dare they report on the God King Emperor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:17 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
NYT: Donald Trump Says ‘Obamacare Is Just Blowing Up,’ Citing Rate Increases
Donald J. Trump, desperate for a winning political issue in the final two weeks of the presidential race, mounted a new offensive ... on Tuesday morning in Miami, he proclaimed that “this election is going to be about Obamacare.” And he said, “Obamacare is just blowing up” — a message his advisers said he would hammer at two rallies and in interviews through the day.
Just hold that sentence in your mind for a second, and savor it. After two years, a dozen Republican primary debates, a grinding campaign, three nationally televised debates against the Democratic nominee, with millions of early votes already cast - after all that, this election is going to be about Obamacare.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Donald J. Trump, desperate for a winning political issue in the final two weeks of the presidential race, mounted a new offensive ... on Tuesday morning in Miami, he proclaimed that “this election is going to be about Obamacare.” And he said, “Obamacare is just blowing up” — a message his advisers said he would hammer at two rallies and in interviews through the day.
Just hold that sentence in your mind for a second, and savor it. After two years, a dozen Republican primary debates, a grinding campaign, three nationally televised debates against the Democratic nominee, with millions of early votes already cast - after all that, this election is going to be about Obamacare.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Many years ago I went to the Old Post office as its tower had a great view of the mall/etc without the huge wait of the Washington Monument. Is that still the case, or did Trump's renovations ruin it? IIRC it was free or cheap.
posted by jclarkin at 1:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by jclarkin at 1:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
@Olivianuzzi Trump says the media has "phony cameras" ??
Maybe he meant camera phones.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Maybe he meant camera phones.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
@alivitali "There's going to be a lot of Brexit happening in about 2 weeks," Trump says. It's been a lot of Brexit recently,
Wow he is sounding extra nuts today.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wow he is sounding extra nuts today.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
@AnnaMariaDP A white woman is holding a "Blacks for Trump" sign
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 1:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm still in a yard-sign standoff with people on the next block (geography and topography mean that our houses basically stare directly at one another and we can see each other's signs from various windows). I am pretty sure they put theirs up in response to mine because other than us two, the neighborhood is utterly devoid of evidence that any election is occurring at all.
My mom's neighborhood (upper middle class, highly educated, proximal to the university, heavily Jewish) is a sea of blue signs right now. In regular elections it's pretty blue for obvious reasons, but this year? The anti-intellectual anti-Semite running on the R ticket is like a direct and very personal affront to the residents of that area. I'm going to be very interested to see the precinct breakdowns on November 9.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:21 PM on October 25, 2016
My mom's neighborhood (upper middle class, highly educated, proximal to the university, heavily Jewish) is a sea of blue signs right now. In regular elections it's pretty blue for obvious reasons, but this year? The anti-intellectual anti-Semite running on the R ticket is like a direct and very personal affront to the residents of that area. I'm going to be very interested to see the precinct breakdowns on November 9.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:21 PM on October 25, 2016
@Olivianuzzi Trump says the media has "phony cameras" ??
They make him look all orange and puffy
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
They make him look all orange and puffy
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
So this rally Trump called fact checkers crooked. They're dishonest scum.
posted by Talez at 1:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Many years ago I went to the Old Post office as its tower had a great view of the mall/etc without the huge wait of the Washington Monument. Is that still the case, or did Trump's renovations ruin it? IIRC it was free or cheap.
A condition of the lease of the Old Post Office building to Trump was that the Tower would remain freely accessible as a National Park.
That being said, it closed for the hotel renovations and is still closed at the moment.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
A condition of the lease of the Old Post Office building to Trump was that the Tower would remain freely accessible as a National Park.
That being said, it closed for the hotel renovations and is still closed at the moment.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Now it's the Obama-Clinton sequester. Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by Talez at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Many years ago I went to the Old Post office as its tower had a great view of the mall/etc without the huge wait of the Washington Monument. Is that still the case, or did Trump's renovations ruin it? IIRC it was free or cheap.
Reportedly, the National Park service will continue to run their museum, conduct tours and maintain the elevator to the observation deck.
As far as I know, the renovation also preserved the Congress Bells, which will continue to be run every Thursday.
posted by zarq at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reportedly, the National Park service will continue to run their museum, conduct tours and maintain the elevator to the observation deck.
As far as I know, the renovation also preserved the Congress Bells, which will continue to be run every Thursday.
posted by zarq at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe... Trump thinks a Brexit is a kind of cocktail... you drink... when you win political office? Beyond that, I've got no idea.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:26 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:26 PM on October 25, 2016
So Trump is speaking and there's literally a guy in a white coat wearing a stethoscope behind him, like this campaign is some infomercial for supplements (that part generally comes after you lose).
We also have white people holding "blacks for Trump" signs.
And: "Trump says of Hillary Clinton: "if you vote for her, you're crazy. She's the worst." --@alivitali
13 more days of this...
posted by zachlipton at 1:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
We also have white people holding "blacks for Trump" signs.
And: "Trump says of Hillary Clinton: "if you vote for her, you're crazy. She's the worst." --@alivitali
13 more days of this...
posted by zachlipton at 1:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
I watch Trump rallies a fair bit but it always stupefies me how good Trump is at gish galloping.
posted by Talez at 1:27 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by Talez at 1:27 PM on October 25, 2016
@alivitali Trump says he likes the signs that say "blacks for Trump." Adds: "blacks for Trump, you watch."
It's not the first time a white person has been seen holding up a "Blacks for Trump." I guess they just hand them out to the people nearest the stage so the cameras will pick them up. But the way he talks about the signs almost makes it sound like he thinks they mean something--they work like magic: if you have the signs, the people will appear! Poof!"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's not the first time a white person has been seen holding up a "Blacks for Trump." I guess they just hand them out to the people nearest the stage so the cameras will pick them up. But the way he talks about the signs almost makes it sound like he thinks they mean something--they work like magic: if you have the signs, the people will appear! Poof!"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are Progressives Being Played by WikiLeaks and Julian Assange? [Despite the uninspiring title, this is a good article]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
"There's going to be a lot of Brexit happening in about 2 weeks," Trump says. It's been a lot of Brexit recently.He's full of Brexit.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Confederate States: the original Brexit.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
@AnnaMariaDP A white woman is holding a "Blacks for Trump" sign
One of the responses says that she was holding up the sign for a black man to her left who was taking pictures at the time. That makes sense, although it doesn't explain the other response showing a picture of both of them holding up separate "Blacks for Trump" signs.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the responses says that she was holding up the sign for a black man to her left who was taking pictures at the time. That makes sense, although it doesn't explain the other response showing a picture of both of them holding up separate "Blacks for Trump" signs.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Were we talking about Native representatives in Congress? We came close, a long time ago. Instead, we got a combined state that wound up illegally moving its capital to Oklahoma City.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:33 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:33 PM on October 25, 2016
Are Progressives Being Played by WikiLeaks and Julian Assange?
posted by Sophie1 at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
White nationalist David Duke high-fiving Assange on Twitter is a sign that it’s long, long overdue for white male progressives to consider the source of the material leading them to think certain feminist and black journalists are traitors to all that is right and good.FTFY
posted by Sophie1 at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
> The Confederate States: the original Brexit.
Declaration of Independence: The Original Brexit™
posted by mrzarquon at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Declaration of Independence: The Original Brexit™
posted by mrzarquon at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
A white woman is holding a "Blacks for Trump" sign
It's like holding a sign in an airport. They aren't identifying themselves, they're looking for some.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [97 favorites]
It's like holding a sign in an airport. They aren't identifying themselves, they're looking for some.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [97 favorites]
@AnnaMariaDP A white woman is holding a "Blacks for Trump" sign
I heard somebody say that he has a great relationship with The Blacks.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:36 PM on October 25, 2016
I heard somebody say that he has a great relationship with The Blacks.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:36 PM on October 25, 2016
secret life of gravy: @alivitali "There's going to be a lot of Brexit happening in about 2 weeks," Trump says. It's been a lot of Brexit recently,
Wow he is sounding extra nuts today.
To be fair, the science is still murky on what the recommended daily allowance of Brexit should be.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow he is sounding extra nuts today.
To be fair, the science is still murky on what the recommended daily allowance of Brexit should be.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Having a black friend practically makes you black yourself, though, right? So two signs is totally legit in that situation.
posted by clawsoon at 1:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
To be fair, the science is still murky on what the recommended daily allowance of Brexit should be.
but they all agree brexit is the most important meal of the day
posted by entropicamericana at 1:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
but they all agree brexit is the most important meal of the day
posted by entropicamericana at 1:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
Haaretz: The Trump-fueled 'Safe Spaces' for anti-Semitism Few American Jews Ever See (Google cache link):
The majority of urban American Jews are completely disconnected from the on-the-ground neo-Nazism that is brewing in small, conservative predominantly-white towns across the U.S. Trump’s acceptance and even provoking of violence has created a space for neo-Nazi white nationalists to openly discuss their feelings. And to do so with pride and without fear.posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Because of this disconnect, Americans, even liberals, brush off the severity of Trump’s anti-Semitism. They say it only resonates with “fringe figures” like the former Klu Klux Klan member David Duke, or with Andrew Anglin, the neo-Nazi white nationalist. Anglin recently said on Duke’s radio show, “if by some Jewish trickery we do not win this election, people are going to blame the Jews.” Many Trump supporters will. In fact, they already do.
...
People who believe Trump’s defeat at the polls will result in a return to the pre-Trump status quo are mistaken. While Trump’s rhetoric may not be explicitly anti-Semitic, it has created a space in which neo-Nazi sentiments can be openly expressed. And they’re here to stay.
Random thought:
One of the reasons I like Hillary and can relate to her is that she seems to have this infinite well of patience when dealing with BS. I try to be patient, maintain myself in a calm and cool manner but I find it hard to imagine the sheer amount of will and character it takes to maintain it like she does in the face of Trump himself and Trumpism in general.
At times she has the 'patience of saint' is the cliche phrase.
I'd like to see a modern update to someone having the 'patience of Clinton' or the 'patience of a Hillary'
posted by Jalliah at 1:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
One of the reasons I like Hillary and can relate to her is that she seems to have this infinite well of patience when dealing with BS. I try to be patient, maintain myself in a calm and cool manner but I find it hard to imagine the sheer amount of will and character it takes to maintain it like she does in the face of Trump himself and Trumpism in general.
At times she has the 'patience of saint' is the cliche phrase.
I'd like to see a modern update to someone having the 'patience of Clinton' or the 'patience of a Hillary'
posted by Jalliah at 1:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Haaretz: The Trump-fueled 'Safe Spaces' for anti-Semitism Few American Jews Ever See (Google cache link):
Great. Just great. Ugh.
posted by zarq at 1:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Great. Just great. Ugh.
posted by zarq at 1:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are Progressives Being Played by WikiLeaks and Julian Assange?
According to the author of Buzzfeed's recent piece, "Inside The Strange, Paranoid World Of Julian Assange," the champion of information transparency insisted that all his comrades at WikiLeaks sign strict NDAs.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
According to the author of Buzzfeed's recent piece, "Inside The Strange, Paranoid World Of Julian Assange," the champion of information transparency insisted that all his comrades at WikiLeaks sign strict NDAs.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
The Trump Supporters...Who Are Secretly Voting for Hillary [Lyz Lenz for Marie Claire]
Over the course of the 2016 presidential election, I've come to find that Melody is not the only conservative woman in my community who's secretly voting Democrat. While nodding along with their husbands' politics and passing as Trump supporters in their neighborhoods, there's a group of women making fervent plans for what happens when they're finally alone in the voting booth. [...]posted by melissasaurus at 1:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [34 favorites]
Susan suspects there are other women like her, but that part of the reason conservative female Christian voters won't openly support Clinton is because of the culture of submission in Evangelical churches. Wives are supposed to follow their husbands' lead in every matter, including politics. Speaking out against those traditional teachings can come with a risk—a social penalty of alienation from a very tight-knit community, to which spouses, extended family, children, and support systems are all intricately linked. Still, she knows of pockets of women who are defecting from Trump. "I hope all those people who are saying no to Trump are also, secretly, saying yes to Hillary," she says.
You're F*ckin' High [Funny or Die on protest votes]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
My kiddo is nearly 11 and pretty plugged in to the election. I remember having a lot of questions when Reagan was first running and I was about his age. I wanted Reagan to win because my parents did, so I try not to take too much from him being a Clinton fan, although honestly I hope I don't raise an adult who would be pro-Trump. Conservative I could handle, but not that.
He will get to vote in the 2024 election. God knows who will be running then.
posted by emjaybee at 1:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
He will get to vote in the 2024 election. God knows who will be running then.
posted by emjaybee at 1:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Quiet.
(Beautifully crafted ad from Save the Day.)
posted by Scoop at 1:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
(Beautifully crafted ad from Save the Day.)
posted by Scoop at 1:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
>@alivitali "There's going to be a lot of Brexit happening in about 2 weeks," Trump says. It's been a lot of Brexit recently,
> Wow he is sounding extra nuts today.
"I just thought this is how we were saying breakfast anymore. I've been eating a lot of breakfast. That's what I meant."
posted by boo_radley at 1:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
> Wow he is sounding extra nuts today.
"I just thought this is how we were saying breakfast anymore. I've been eating a lot of breakfast. That's what I meant."
posted by boo_radley at 1:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Susan suspects there are other women like her, but that part of the reason conservative female Christian voters won't openly support Clinton is because of the culture of submission in Evangelical churches. Wives are supposed to follow their husbands' lead in every matter, including politics. Speaking out against those traditional teachings can come with a risk—a social penalty of alienation from a very tight-knit community, to which spouses, extended family, children, and support systems are all intricately linked. Still, she knows of pockets of women who are defecting from Trump. "I hope all those people who are saying no to Trump are also, secretly, saying yes to Hillary," she says.
#thanksforthe19th
posted by Talez at 1:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
#thanksforthe19th
posted by Talez at 1:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
@alivitali "There's going to be a lot of Brexit happening in about 2 weeks," Trump says. It's been a lot of Brexit recently."
I'm pretty sure I actually understand what he means, which is FUCKING TERRIFYING. Oh shit, I've become semi-fluent in Trumpspeak.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure I actually understand what he means, which is FUCKING TERRIFYING. Oh shit, I've become semi-fluent in Trumpspeak.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
There may be a lot of Brexit happening in the US, but there's brex all happening in the UK. Still no strategy, no public plans, no agreement on what on earth it means, nothing but all the problems that the saner Remainers predicted proving to be just as intractable as expected. Oh, and the pound keeps on slippin', slippin'... into the quagmire.
But polls show the Leavers still expect to have all the benefits of EU membership with none of that pesky free movement. This despite the absolute certainty that any such agreement would comprehensively muck up the EU's entire raison d'etre, and thus will never happen.
Much fantasy. So boggling. Perfect fit for Trumpdoge.
posted by Devonian at 2:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
But polls show the Leavers still expect to have all the benefits of EU membership with none of that pesky free movement. This despite the absolute certainty that any such agreement would comprehensively muck up the EU's entire raison d'etre, and thus will never happen.
Much fantasy. So boggling. Perfect fit for Trumpdoge.
posted by Devonian at 2:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
My 13 year old and all of his friends are deeply following this election, more so than many adults.
Secret Hillary voters, my experience living in deep Baptist country suggests that there are a goodly number of women in maga gear who will push the button for our Hillary. Gods willing.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:07 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Secret Hillary voters, my experience living in deep Baptist country suggests that there are a goodly number of women in maga gear who will push the button for our Hillary. Gods willing.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:07 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Speaking of Assange here is his take on the Panama Papers
posted by humanfont at 2:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The US OCCRP can do good work, but for the US govt to directly fund the #PanamaPapers attack on Putin seriously undermines its integrity.[real]
WaPo: Trump halts big-money fundraising, cutting off cash to the party.
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has effectively shut down his high-dollar fundraising operation for the rest of the campaign, a highly unusual move that deals another serious blow to the GOP's effort to finance its get-out-the-vote operation before Election Day.posted by xyzzy at 2:17 PM on October 25, 2016 [41 favorites]
Well, if you needed any more proof that Trump's motto is Fuck you, I got mine. This should be helpful.
Really though I'm loving the fact that the party is taking hits from all sides lately. Trump supporters, Never Trumps, Obama, and pretty much everyone else this side of Reince Preibus's mom.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Really though I'm loving the fact that the party is taking hits from all sides lately. Trump supporters, Never Trumps, Obama, and pretty much everyone else this side of Reince Preibus's mom.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
This Prisoner's Dilemma as political strategy shit is crazy to watch.
posted by boo_radley at 2:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 2:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
WaPo: Trump halts big-money fundraising, cutting off cash to the party.
Does it make me a bad person if my reaction to that story was like this?
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does it make me a bad person if my reaction to that story was like this?
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has effectively shut down his high-dollar fundraising operation for the rest of the campaign, a highly unusual move that deals another serious blow to the GOP's effort to finance its get-out-the-vote operation before Election Day.
I still have a slight hope this was a long con on the Republican party. "You knew I was a snake when you took me in!"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
I still have a slight hope this was a long con on the Republican party. "You knew I was a snake when you took me in!"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
I mean I'm assuming Mother Preibus is supporting her son, but this year maybe I shouldn't be so quick to guess...
posted by gusottertrout at 2:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 2:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm started to get an inkling that a smart bet would be on Assange getting his ass booted from the embassy within say...a year. He better hope that the uber driver taking him to the Russian embassy doesn't really work for Interpol.
posted by Ber at 2:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 2:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Somebody. Just. Said. Trumpdoge.
oh help restrain my brain
posted by Namlit at 2:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
oh help restrain my brain
posted by Namlit at 2:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Bernie intends to hold the Clinton administration to account for his support.
Sen. Bernie Sanders laid out the ways he would leverage his popularity that emerged from the Democratic primary to continue to push Hillary Clinton to the left if she wins the presidency next month.posted by Coventry at 2:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
In an interview published Monday with The Washington Post, Sanders argued that the Democratic Party is "more progressive" than its presidential nominee.
He emphasized that he saw it as his role to "demand that the Democratic Party implement" the party platform his allies helped shape, and would be "vigorously in opposition" if Clinton attempted to abandon the platform's progressive elements.
Somebody. Just. Said. Trumpdoge.
Oh god, please tell me we're not gonna get another quirky lovable meme character turned into a hate symbol :(
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Oh god, please tell me we're not gonna get another quirky lovable meme character turned into a hate symbol :(
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
On their latest podcast, the Fivethirtyeight crew is PISSED about Trump and his campaign pretending that "oversampling" is some kind of scandalous skullduggery, and point out that Kellyanne Conway is a pollster who has used it frequently herself, knows damn well what it actually means, and is therefore unquestionably flat-out lying.
So, I guess Trump has lost the coveted Statistics Nerd vote.
posted by kyrademon at 2:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
So, I guess Trump has lost the coveted Statistics Nerd vote.
posted by kyrademon at 2:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
WaPo: Trump halts big-money fundraising, cutting off cash to the party.
This is so wild. Clinton is beginning to dump money into down ballot races, as Trump ends all fundraising of that type while also taking a day off to go to Florida and brag about his personal hotel.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is so wild. Clinton is beginning to dump money into down ballot races, as Trump ends all fundraising of that type while also taking a day off to go to Florida and brag about his personal hotel.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
wow such rigged, very disaster
...testing. Just testing...
posted by Namlit at 2:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
...testing. Just testing...
posted by Namlit at 2:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Somebody. Just. Said. Trumpdoge.
What's Trumpdoge?
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
What's Trumpdoge?
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you have a strong stomach, do Google Image search on "Trump doge".
The thing about winning the Senate (and, longshot, the House) is that with Sanders and Warren and Franken and such in senior leadership, this will be quite different than the "Democratic Majority" that existed when Obama took office; MUCH more liberal. Almost zero 'Red Dogs' (maybe Evan Bayh if he survives) to hold back progressive agenda.
Of course, dealing with a Republican Majority House (even a narrow one), will be roadblocks all the way but some of the Rs running away from Trump may need a new safe haven...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
The thing about winning the Senate (and, longshot, the House) is that with Sanders and Warren and Franken and such in senior leadership, this will be quite different than the "Democratic Majority" that existed when Obama took office; MUCH more liberal. Almost zero 'Red Dogs' (maybe Evan Bayh if he survives) to hold back progressive agenda.
Of course, dealing with a Republican Majority House (even a narrow one), will be roadblocks all the way but some of the Rs running away from Trump may need a new safe haven...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
The US OCCRP can do good work, but for the US govt to directly fund the #PanamaPapers attack on Putin seriously undermines its integrity.[real]
"Radical transparency" my ass.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Radical transparency" my ass.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
What's Trumpdoge?
such $20
very town
wow
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [97 favorites]
such $20
very town
wow
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [97 favorites]
Dammit
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
Guys I have a hilarious and witty response to share with the world for the question "what's trump doge" and oh
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
I dunno, what's Trump with you?
did i do it right guys
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [42 favorites]
did i do it right guys
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [42 favorites]
while also taking a day off to go to Florida and brag about his personal hotel.
As someone on twitter pointed out, he could've used that time to talk to hurricane victims, encourage campaign workers, or make GOTV calls.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
As someone on twitter pointed out, he could've used that time to talk to hurricane victims, encourage campaign workers, or make GOTV calls.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
No, don't let Trump ruin doge for the rest of us. Much more appropriate meme: TRUMPY CAT.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Isn't he already wearing a funny hat?
posted by Namlit at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Oh, about two-and-a-half pounds.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
If Trump is going to attached to an Internet meme I'm thinking Trump Goatse would be more appropriate.
posted by Ber at 2:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Ber at 2:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
@scottadamssays
If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton. They have the means. Think about it. #Trump [face palmingly real]
posted by PenDevil at 2:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton. They have the means. Think about it. #Trump [face palmingly real]
posted by PenDevil at 2:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now for some lighter fare: Alex Jones: Billy Bush was CIA operative sent to "set up" Donald Trump.
That's right, folks. 11 years ago, the CIA sent a D-list cousin of the sitting President into an RV with a hot mic and a mission to get Trump to brag about sexual assault by setting him up with words like "whoa" and "okay", so that the tape could sit in NBC's vaults unseen by anyone until October of 2016 until it was leaked to a Washington Post reporter, instead of being released during the primary when said President's brother would have really liked that tape to come out. The CIA did that.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [97 favorites]
That's right, folks. 11 years ago, the CIA sent a D-list cousin of the sitting President into an RV with a hot mic and a mission to get Trump to brag about sexual assault by setting him up with words like "whoa" and "okay", so that the tape could sit in NBC's vaults unseen by anyone until October of 2016 until it was leaked to a Washington Post reporter, instead of being released during the primary when said President's brother would have really liked that tape to come out. The CIA did that.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [97 favorites]
I mean, that's a shitty conspiracy theory for Alex Jones, which you'd think would be a bar so low as to be impossible not to clear.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
PenDevil: If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton. They have the means. Think about it. #Trump [face palmingly real]
QFWTF.
posted by Superplin at 2:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
QFWTF.
posted by Superplin at 2:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
REALITY HAS KNOWN LIBERAL BIAS GUYS
posted by entropicamericana at 2:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 2:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I thought we weren't doing "Scott Adams said a dumb thing" anymore.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 2:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
The phrase "think about it" to that audience is kind of mind-boggling. With WHAT?
posted by Namlit at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Inside the Secret Trump-Themed Bar on Capitol Hill
This is seemingly [real], per Twitter and various web hits.
This is seemingly [real], per Twitter and various web hits.
“We made the menu huge so it makes the customers feel like they have small hands,” bar manager Mike Haigis tells IJR.posted by zachlipton at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
There is no collective "we" on these threads, remember.
posted by agregoli at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by agregoli at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, sorry I misread who said it. No we're not doing the "Scott Adams said a dumb thing" anymore.
posted by Namlit at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Namlit at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
@scottadamssays
If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton. They have the means. Think about it. #Trump [face palmingly real]
Talk about your planned chaos.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton. They have the means. Think about it. #Trump [face palmingly real]
Talk about your planned chaos.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
There's going to be a lot of Brexit happening in about 2 weeks
*Enters Brexit into Trump Translator*
[robot-voice]White Nationalist Populism[/robot-voice]
ah, ok
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
*Enters Brexit into Trump Translator*
[robot-voice]White Nationalist Populism[/robot-voice]
ah, ok
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Now for some lighter fare: Alex Jones: Billy Bush was CIA operative sent to "set up" Donald Trump.
Does he cry in this one? I like watching Alex cry.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Does he cry in this one? I like watching Alex cry.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
When Kelly Preston’s Son Died, Trump Wrote a Blog Post About His Failed Attempt to Sleep With Her
Back in 2009, after John Travolta and Kelly Preston's son Jet Travolta died, Trump didn't exactly express his condolences in a normal way; he posted this to a Trump University blog:
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on October 25, 2016 [67 favorites]
Back in 2009, after John Travolta and Kelly Preston's son Jet Travolta died, Trump didn't exactly express his condolences in a normal way; he posted this to a Trump University blog:
I have always respected people who were loyal and faithful–which brings to mind Kelly Preston. A long time ago, before I was married, I met Kelly Preston at a club and worked like hell to try and pick her up. She was beautiful, personable, and definitely had allure. At the time I had no idea she was married to John Travolta.Yes, he used the occasion of a teenager's death to describe his "outstanding" "track record" when it comes to picking up women, but he liked the teenager's mom even more because she didn't cheat on her husband with him.
In any event, my track record on this subject has always been outstanding, but Kelly wouldn’t give me the time of day. She was very nice, very elegant, but I didn’t have a chance with her, and that was that.
When I later found out she was married to John, I liked and respected her even more. Some people have values that matter to them, and she is one of them. Her loyalty was unwavering and I have always remembered that about her.
Being true to someone is very close to being true to yourself. That’s a valuable attribute in today’s world. I’m sure she was a wonderful mother to Jett and my thoughts are with her and her family after their terrible loss.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on October 25, 2016 [67 favorites]
WaPo: Trump halts big-money fundraising, cutting off cash to the party.
Its a bold strategy, Cotton, lets see if it pays off for 'em...
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Its a bold strategy, Cotton, lets see if it pays off for 'em...
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Ok. Back to business. Finally the BBC caught up with Der Spiegel on the latest Trumpism. "Clinton's foreign policy plan would start WWIII." [real]
...and just when we were having a bit of fun. It's so unfair.
posted by Namlit at 3:07 PM on October 25, 2016
...and just when we were having a bit of fun. It's so unfair.
posted by Namlit at 3:07 PM on October 25, 2016
I'm so looking forward to the day when I no longer have to ponder Donald Trump's utter grossness of character. The space that will be liberated in my brain would be much better used for...I don't know, contemplating how to successfully clean the grout in my shower.
posted by Salieri at 3:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Salieri at 3:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
Superplin: PenDevil: If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton. They have the means. Think about it. #Trump [face palmingly real]
In response to someone tweeting a criticism of this, Scott Adams wrote back:
@Sunil_2096 Nice try, paid Clinton bully.
I'm constantly amazed by the people like him valuing their opinion so much that they assume there's an entire conspiracy to pay people to criticize him. You think there are rooms of people waiting for your brilliance? Pay checks, time clocks, managers holding meetings with powerpoint presentations about increasing our Scott Adams insults per minute? What a shocking amount of unearned confidence! I wish I could bottle that. Imagine the things I could do if I was unhampered by any sense of self-doubt or humility.
posted by bluecore at 3:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
In response to someone tweeting a criticism of this, Scott Adams wrote back:
@Sunil_2096 Nice try, paid Clinton bully.
I'm constantly amazed by the people like him valuing their opinion so much that they assume there's an entire conspiracy to pay people to criticize him. You think there are rooms of people waiting for your brilliance? Pay checks, time clocks, managers holding meetings with powerpoint presentations about increasing our Scott Adams insults per minute? What a shocking amount of unearned confidence! I wish I could bottle that. Imagine the things I could do if I was unhampered by any sense of self-doubt or humility.
posted by bluecore at 3:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
Somewhere, in a dimly lit mancave, Scott Adams stares at a blue webpage, cackles and exclaims "I may have left Metafilter... BUT THEY NEVER LEFT ME! MUHAHAHAHAHA."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:13 PM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:13 PM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
Yeah I need to stop responding on Scott Adams on Twitter but I'm like a dog with a bone.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 3:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 3:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Give me the courage of a woman with a good idea and the confidence of a man Scott Adams with a bad one quart of vodka under his belt. Unstoppable!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:17 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:17 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Adams requires so much Fixing It For Him...
If there areno sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers ClintonTrump. If not, they just don't have the means.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:20 PM on October 25, 2016
If there are
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:20 PM on October 25, 2016
From the NYT interview dump article linked above:
And when Mr. Trump feels he has been made a fool of, his response can be volcanic. Ivana Trump told Mr. D’Antonio about a Colorado ski vacation she took with Mr. Trump soon after they began dating. The future Mrs. Trump had not told her boyfriend that she was an accomplished skier. As she recalls it, Mr. Trump went down the hill first and waited for her at the bottom:
IVANA TRUMP: So he goes and stops, and he says, “Come on, baby. Come on, baby.” I went up. I went two flips up in the air, two flips in front of him. I disappeared. Donald was so angry, he took off his skis, his ski boots, and walked up to the restaurant. ... He could not take it. He could not take it.
He had been bested in public. As he stormed off the slope, leaving behind a trail of equipment, she recalled, Mr. Trump could not contain his embarrassment.
“I’m not going to do this,” she recalled him saying, “for anybody, including Ivana.”
Quinn Cummings' "Giant Toddler" moniker for him is just so...apt.
Apt, I say!
Cummings on Twitter: Giant Toddler Finally Touches Something Which Doesn't Mind
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
And when Mr. Trump feels he has been made a fool of, his response can be volcanic. Ivana Trump told Mr. D’Antonio about a Colorado ski vacation she took with Mr. Trump soon after they began dating. The future Mrs. Trump had not told her boyfriend that she was an accomplished skier. As she recalls it, Mr. Trump went down the hill first and waited for her at the bottom:
IVANA TRUMP: So he goes and stops, and he says, “Come on, baby. Come on, baby.” I went up. I went two flips up in the air, two flips in front of him. I disappeared. Donald was so angry, he took off his skis, his ski boots, and walked up to the restaurant. ... He could not take it. He could not take it.
He had been bested in public. As he stormed off the slope, leaving behind a trail of equipment, she recalled, Mr. Trump could not contain his embarrassment.
“I’m not going to do this,” she recalled him saying, “for anybody, including Ivana.”
Quinn Cummings' "Giant Toddler" moniker for him is just so...apt.
Apt, I say!
Cummings on Twitter: Giant Toddler Finally Touches Something Which Doesn't Mind
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Yeah I need to stop responding on Scott Adams on Twitter but I'm like a dog with a bone.
Ahahaha my friend it seems you have fallen under the sway of a MASTER PERSUADER
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
Ahahaha my friend it seems you have fallen under the sway of a MASTER PERSUADER
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
How 75 pending lawsuits could distract a Donald Trump presidency [USA Today]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump: "Russia is a nuclear country, but a country where the nukes work as opposed to other countries that talk." I mean, unless he learned something very interesting at that last security briefing, that's just a terrifyingly ambiguously ignorant statement.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ok. Back to business. Finally the BBC caught up with Der Spiegel on the latest Trumpism. "Clinton's foreign policy plan would start WWIII." [real]
...and just when we were having a bit of fun. It's so unfair.
Well, he's right. Too bad for him that nobody should trust him with anything more dangerous than a rubber band. We're going to start a major war no matter which of them ends up in the White House, but at least I'll have health insurance under a Clinton administration.
posted by indubitable at 3:26 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
...and just when we were having a bit of fun. It's so unfair.
Well, he's right. Too bad for him that nobody should trust him with anything more dangerous than a rubber band. We're going to start a major war no matter which of them ends up in the White House, but at least I'll have health insurance under a Clinton administration.
posted by indubitable at 3:26 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
yeah but with the trump, you'd have the biggest, best war... just a tremendous war... a yooge war, believe me
posted by entropicamericana at 3:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 3:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
While it doesn't get the same kind of attention as Fahrenthold's charity watch, USA Today has been on the Trump lawsuit beat for a long time with meticulously researched efforts, and they deserve more credit than they're getting for that.
posted by zachlipton at 3:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
A Great War, you might even say.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm doing a dreadful job with keeping up with the conversation here, but regarding yard signs...
They've always seemed a nuisance to me (and here in Hawaii they're on yards, fences, sidewalks, posts, everywhere) that don't do much more than litter up the world. My right wing cousin, however, drives a truck around his affluent area in Connecticut and posts Facebook updates about how is 100% sure Trump will win Connecticut because he sees so many more Trump signs than Hillary signs. Christmas dinner should be a blast.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:35 PM on October 25, 2016
They've always seemed a nuisance to me (and here in Hawaii they're on yards, fences, sidewalks, posts, everywhere) that don't do much more than litter up the world. My right wing cousin, however, drives a truck around his affluent area in Connecticut and posts Facebook updates about how is 100% sure Trump will win Connecticut because he sees so many more Trump signs than Hillary signs. Christmas dinner should be a blast.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:35 PM on October 25, 2016
We're going to start a major war no matter which of them ends up in the White House
We are? I'm as skeptical of Clinton's middle east strategy as the next lefty, but I don't think she wants to get involved in a ground war in Syria, or in a proxy war with Russia -- and if there's any American politician with the foreign policy experience and relationships to find another way forward, it's the former Secretary of State who oversaw a major nuclear deal with a hostile theocratic state.
So yeah, bad things may happen, maybe even a great powers war. But the 'may's and the 'might's of a Clinton foreign policy pale in comparison to the near-certainty that Donald Trump will at some point bomb Mecca (or invade Costa Rica, or blockade Portugal) based on a mocking tweet from someone.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
We are? I'm as skeptical of Clinton's middle east strategy as the next lefty, but I don't think she wants to get involved in a ground war in Syria, or in a proxy war with Russia -- and if there's any American politician with the foreign policy experience and relationships to find another way forward, it's the former Secretary of State who oversaw a major nuclear deal with a hostile theocratic state.
So yeah, bad things may happen, maybe even a great powers war. But the 'may's and the 'might's of a Clinton foreign policy pale in comparison to the near-certainty that Donald Trump will at some point bomb Mecca (or invade Costa Rica, or blockade Portugal) based on a mocking tweet from someone.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
Can we please stop talking about Scott Adams now?? Thank you!
posted by languagehat at 3:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 3:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [39 favorites]
Ok. Back to business. Finally the BBC caught up with Der Spiegel
If he was directly questioned on something reported in Der Spiegel, I'll wager it would go something like this:
Reporter: "Mr. Trump, Der Spiegel has reported that..."
Trump: "Excuse me. Excuse me. Let me...Let me tell you something about Spiegels. We will have the best Speigels. All the Spiegels. Crooked Hillary had 30 years - 30 years - and we don't have any Spiegels. So I said to myself "Why doesn't America have any Spiegels?" And that's why I'm running. We need to have the best Spiegels."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
If he was directly questioned on something reported in Der Spiegel, I'll wager it would go something like this:
Reporter: "Mr. Trump, Der Spiegel has reported that..."
Trump: "Excuse me. Excuse me. Let me...Let me tell you something about Spiegels. We will have the best Speigels. All the Spiegels. Crooked Hillary had 30 years - 30 years - and we don't have any Spiegels. So I said to myself "Why doesn't America have any Spiegels?" And that's why I'm running. We need to have the best Spiegels."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Perhaps we could talk about Adam Scott, instead.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [30 favorites]
I never thought I'd see the day USA Today or Cosmopolitan did actual journalism. What a world we live in.
posted by Yowser at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
donaldtrump.gop "Let this stand as a testament to Republicans putting power and party over principle and country, and may they never live it down."
posted by melissasaurus at 3:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
> A Great War, you might even say.
The fact that Americans joke about that shit... well, it's got to be OK to joke, to be sure, and yeah it's funny.
But just take a second to think about the fact that you're a literally playing with the fate of the world.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
The fact that Americans joke about that shit... well, it's got to be OK to joke, to be sure, and yeah it's funny.
But just take a second to think about the fact that you're a literally playing with the fate of the world.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Let this stand as a testament to Republicans putting power and party over principle and country, and may they never live it down."
The crazy thing is that that quote could be from the center and left about the Republicans who sided with Trump or it could be from the Trump/Hannity axis regarding Republicans who refuse to side with Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The crazy thing is that that quote could be from the center and left about the Republicans who sided with Trump or it could be from the Trump/Hannity axis regarding Republicans who refuse to side with Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
"who pounds a rubber-gloved fist on the podium so hard it knocks the Seal askew and declares that Dammit there just must be some people besides each other of us to blame": When David Foster Wallace predicted Donald Trump.
posted by gerryblog at 3:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 3:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
re: Old Post Office meetup/protest -- I'm thinking of stopping by tomorrow too and just memailed everybody had matching towels. I also made a local event here.
re: trump-themed bar -- It's within walking distance from my work. I'll stop by tomorrow and report back!
posted by numaner at 3:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
re: trump-themed bar -- It's within walking distance from my work. I'll stop by tomorrow and report back!
posted by numaner at 3:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Perhaps we could talk about Adam Scott, instead.
Have I mentioned yet that I resent the fact that Jerry Falwell, Jr. looks like Adam Scott playing a terrible mirror-universe Ben Wyatt? I don't want my Adam Scott associations all messed up like that.
posted by cortex at 3:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Have I mentioned yet that I resent the fact that Jerry Falwell, Jr. looks like Adam Scott playing a terrible mirror-universe Ben Wyatt? I don't want my Adam Scott associations all messed up like that.
posted by cortex at 3:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
But just take a second to think about the fact that you're a literally playing with the fate of the world.
We haven't known the true cost of war - not just boys coming home in caskets, but homes and farms and factories and whole cities destroyed - since the last of the Civil War generation died, a good hundred years ago.
Sometimes it shows. Sorry.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
We haven't known the true cost of war - not just boys coming home in caskets, but homes and farms and factories and whole cities destroyed - since the last of the Civil War generation died, a good hundred years ago.
Sometimes it shows. Sorry.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Why would you try and ruin Adam Scott for all of us?
posted by zombieflanders at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
We are? I'm as skeptical of Clinton's middle east strategy as the next lefty, but I don't think she wants to get involved in a ground war in Syria, or in a proxy war with Russia
She's reiterated many times her intention to declare a no-fly zone in Syria, including recently during the debates. Doing that would necessitate bombing the Syrian and Russian air defense systems and shooting down any Syrian and Russian aircraft in the area. This includes, by the way, the latest in Russian surface to air missile systems. Since the Syrian government is an ally of Russia, this isn't something that we can talk our way into.
posted by indubitable at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
She's reiterated many times her intention to declare a no-fly zone in Syria, including recently during the debates. Doing that would necessitate bombing the Syrian and Russian air defense systems and shooting down any Syrian and Russian aircraft in the area. This includes, by the way, the latest in Russian surface to air missile systems. Since the Syrian government is an ally of Russia, this isn't something that we can talk our way into.
posted by indubitable at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump indirectly bringing back Doge jokes to Metafilter means the number of good things about his candidacy has rocketed all the way up to one.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
Have I mentioned yet that I resent the fact that Jerry Falwell, Jr. looks like Adam Scott playing a terrible mirror-universe Ben Wyatt?
THANKS CORTEX.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
THANKS CORTEX.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Okay, let's listen to DOUGLAS Adams instead (despite having been dead for 15 years, he still makes more sense than most commentators today).
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.This may explain all of 2016...
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
Of course you can't 'trust' what people tell you on the web anymore than you can 'trust' what people tell you on megaphones, postcards or in restaurants. Working out the social politics of who you can trust and why is, quite literally, what a very large part of our brain has evolved to do.
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.Finally, and most immediately relevant:
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.posted by oneswellfoop at 3:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
*closes giphy.com/search/adam-scott window for the last time ever*
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump to 2020 prospects: You don't have a chance
posted by kirkaracha at 3:58 PM on October 25, 2016
Donald Trump is the only candidate who can defeat Hillary Clinton, he suggested Tuesday, laughing at Republicans who may be considering mounting a run in 2020.Also, new #MAGA hat: camo!
...
“All these characters, they wanna run in four years,” Trump said. “They can forget it. They’re wasting their time. You don’t have even a little bit of a chance. This is it, and we’re really close.”
posted by kirkaracha at 3:58 PM on October 25, 2016
Trump indirectly bringing back Doge jokes to Metafilter means the number of good things about his candidacy has rocketed all the way up to one.
He also brought Owen Ellickson into our lives, tbf.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
He also brought Owen Ellickson into our lives, tbf.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I vote we talk about this Scott Adams, instead. (I thought Voodoo Castle was pretty dope back in the day.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you told me as a kid that I would someday have an internet argument with Roseanne Barr over whether Donald Trump is a good choice for president, I probably would have watched a lot less Roseanne.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
My "Great War" quip was gallows humor all the way, kleinsteradikaleminderheit. I'm as pacifist as they come, part of a long and noble (if mostly unsung) tradition of American pacifists.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Someone attending the Tallahassee Trump rally wrote the press an "I'm so sorry" note about how horrifying they find the hostility directed at reporters at Trump rallies.
posted by zachlipton at 4:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
538: Where Are The Undecided Voters?
I would have guessed in a cave on Mars, with their fingers in their ears, but apparently not.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I would have guessed in a cave on Mars, with their fingers in their ears, but apparently not.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
The guys on Keepin' it 1600 (great podcast) pointed out something that really strikes me too: Trump has become boring. He's said so many awful/unforgivable/unintelligible things that it's just tiresome. Is anyone getting a charge out of this anymore? Are the guys changing their Twitter handles to DeplorapleX and blasting Pepe memes actually having a great time? It's just really dismal.
He's a fat old self-infatuated failure, hard to look at and dull to listen to anymore. How many people won't feel utter relief when he slinks away?
posted by argybarg at 4:04 PM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
He's a fat old self-infatuated failure, hard to look at and dull to listen to anymore. How many people won't feel utter relief when he slinks away?
posted by argybarg at 4:04 PM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
This American Life ep 599: Seriously? [re how lies become truth during this election; Act IV is a song written by Sara Bareilles and performed by Leslie Odom, Jr.]
posted by melissasaurus at 4:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 4:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm linking this 538 chat ("Are Democrats Headed For a Split Even if Clinton Wins?") partly because despite the silly premise I think it has some interesting insights about the makeup of the Democratic coalition, but mostly because I really love the way that the 538 staff seems to get along and the way that they're able to have a friendly, collegial conversation wherein a bunch of white guys manage to not talk over a WoC and instead give her space to showcase her expertise and intelligence. Look! It's not that hard!
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, new #MAGA hat: camo!
I'm shocked it's taken this long.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm shocked it's taken this long.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:21 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, new #MAGA hat: camo!
I'm shocked it's taken this long.
It's been there the whole time, you just didn't notice it.
posted by madmethods at 4:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [111 favorites]
Chicago: MIL reported ecectronic voting booth problems when trying to select Clinton. It selected trump. This story coroborates the stories I heard this morning. She was having difficulty getting the system to select Clinton and announced very loudly that the system was selecting the wrong canidate. Someone assisted her from her polling station in changing her electronic ballot.
Here is a pdf on Il statutes regarding voter fraud
There have been reports in previous elections about rigging in the other direction, where republicans vote democratic as well in Chicago.
It has also been called calabration issues with the touch screens in previous elections.
So, pay attention, alert people as appropriate.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:29 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Here is a pdf on Il statutes regarding voter fraud
There have been reports in previous elections about rigging in the other direction, where republicans vote democratic as well in Chicago.
It has also been called calabration issues with the touch screens in previous elections.
So, pay attention, alert people as appropriate.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:29 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
My right wing cousin is sharing links to sites reporting touchscreen votes for Trump in Texas switching to Clinton.
Not that I don't believe its happening, just that its a popular story on the right, too.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not that I don't believe its happening, just that its a popular story on the right, too.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
More on the "oversampling non-scandal" from The Atlantic:
posted by flug at 4:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Late last night, pro-Trump Twitter lit up with excited chatter. Donald Trump is falling fast in the polls, sliding through a month-long decline most statisticians would say is a result of him being, you know, unpopular. (And maybe this. Or this. Or this.) But one blogger had another theory: Polling organizations are deliberately interviewing more Democrats to skew the surveys toward Hillary Clinton.Par for the course, in Trumpland . . .
This afternoon, Trump threw his support behind the idea. “When the polls are even, when they leave them alone and do them properly, I’m leading,” he said at a rally in Florida. “But you see these polls where they’re polling Democrats. How’s Trump doing? Oh, he’s down. They’re polling Democrats. The system is corrupt and it’s rigged and it’s broken.”
Let me cut this off at the head: Neither the writer nor Trump understand how polls work.
posted by flug at 4:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump Has Spent More on Hats Than Polling
posted by Chrysostom at 4:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
I hadn't planned on voting today, but my daughter and I went to the library and turns out it's a polling place. Another day of near record turnout in Travis county. And I got to vote for Madame President with her. Pretty chuffed.
posted by rp at 4:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by rp at 4:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
My right wing cousin is sharing links to sites reporting touchscreen votes for Trump in Texas switching to Clinton.
There's already a Snopes debunking the Texas switching.
posted by chris24 at 4:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
There's already a Snopes debunking the Texas switching.
posted by chris24 at 4:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I can't believe we're still dealing with the Bush-era electronic voting machines boondoggle. So glad my precinct keeps it simple with a paper ballot and marker to bubble in selections.
posted by indubitable at 4:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 4:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Generally I don't listen to conspiracy chatter, but I've heard direct experiences from four or five people who I know have voted so far. All these people have master's degrees or higher. I don't really care what it is, just as long as people report if they have problems and get to vote for the candidates of their choosing. (And I work in a liberal field surrounded by liberal friends so I know I'm not going to hear anything the other way)
The Chicago system lets you double check before submitting, please use that system just in case.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Chicago system lets you double check before submitting, please use that system just in case.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you told me as a kid that I would someday have an internet argument with Roseanne Barr over whether Donald Trump is a good choice for president, I probably would have watched a lot less Roseanne.
Holy Crap. WTF? Is there a Deranged Comedian Syndrome in the DSM yet? Has she been hanging with Dennis Miller?
posted by srboisvert at 4:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Holy Crap. WTF? Is there a Deranged Comedian Syndrome in the DSM yet? Has she been hanging with Dennis Miller?
posted by srboisvert at 4:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
If the touch screen in the voting booth responds to my finger anything like how my iPhone does, I might end up voting for Hidalgo Clopston.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [45 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [45 favorites]
I was warned by the poll worker yesterday that there had been problems in Travis County, Texas. It's easily fixable as long as you review your choices at the end. The machines are getting old and I had to do an extra rotation of the knob a couple of times. I wish we had paper ballots.
posted by colt45 at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by colt45 at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2016
Trump Has Spent More on Hats Than Polling
And just think: Those are the cheapest hats China has to offer.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
And just think: Those are the cheapest hats China has to offer.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Texas Sees a Surge in Latino Voters
Throughout this election, I’ve been skeptical that Hillary Clinton could carry Texas, even as polls suggested the gap in support between her and Donald Trump is closing. But there is a wild card that might make it possible: There are 532,000 more registered Hispanic surname voters this year than in 2012.Takin’ It to the Streets
Even in the age of Trump, a get-out-the-vote canvasser knows that Hispanic residents are thinking local.posted by kirkaracha at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Now imagine if you had to use a touchscreen to cut and paste your chosen candidates?
(The horror, the horror)
posted by Yowser at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
(The horror, the horror)
posted by Yowser at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The New Republican Platform: Sue Everyone. The nominee is threatening to sue, and so are other Republicans who don't want to be associated with him.
posted by homunculus at 4:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 4:55 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump's Campaign Has Spent More on MAGA Hats Than on Polling.
[real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
[real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
"#Arizona @MonmouthPoll Among Early Voters: Clinton 52 (+10) Trump 42" --@PpollingNumbers
He's still shitting the bed at the battle of Monmouth.
(turn, turn, turn, spit, curse)
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
He's still shitting the bed at the battle of Monmouth.
(turn, turn, turn, spit, curse)
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
I just caught the tail end of Chris Matthews on MSNBC, and he was talking approvingly about Biden "getting it" re: the white working class voter who has supposedly been "abandoned" by the elitist Democratic party. I had to roll my eyes.
Has Matthews always been like this? I don't want the Democratic party to abandon anyone, but his sort of holy reverence for the mythical white working class (male) voter is getting pretty unseemly. Because I'm sure that all of the minority voters and women who make up a huge part of the Democratic base are there because we really dig the "Ivy League" vibe we get from the party and just want to stick it to the blue-collar white guys. Yeah, that's it.
I want everyone to feel welcome in the party. But the oversized attention that's been paid to this one demographic is really making me tired. I can't wait for the day when the media stops obsessing so much about white men.
posted by Salieri at 5:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [47 favorites]
Has Matthews always been like this? I don't want the Democratic party to abandon anyone, but his sort of holy reverence for the mythical white working class (male) voter is getting pretty unseemly. Because I'm sure that all of the minority voters and women who make up a huge part of the Democratic base are there because we really dig the "Ivy League" vibe we get from the party and just want to stick it to the blue-collar white guys. Yeah, that's it.
I want everyone to feel welcome in the party. But the oversized attention that's been paid to this one demographic is really making me tired. I can't wait for the day when the media stops obsessing so much about white men.
posted by Salieri at 5:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [47 favorites]
Has Matthews always been like this?
Yes. He's an embarrassment.
posted by Talez at 5:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
Yes. He's an embarrassment.
posted by Talez at 5:11 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
The New Republican Platform: Sue Everyone. The nominee is threatening to sue, and so are other Republicans who don't want to be associated with him.Standing by for Trump v the US Electorate.
posted by jferg at 5:12 PM on October 25, 2016
He's still shitting the bed at the battle of Monmouth.
"I'm a candidate! Whee!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
"I'm a candidate! Whee!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
The New Republican Platform: Sue Everyone. The nominee is threatening to sue, and so are other Republicans who don't want to be associated with him.
That'll look great in front of the Republican voters, who've all been conditioned to think anyone who sues is the devil for ~20 years now.
posted by Mitrovarr at 5:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
That'll look great in front of the Republican voters, who've all been conditioned to think anyone who sues is the devil for ~20 years now.
posted by Mitrovarr at 5:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
In his defense his real life Capital Hill experience was shaped by the defeat of Mondale and the Reagan democrats. Many of his generation have been chasing those lost voters ever since. Chris Matthews is also a wimpy little rich guy who fetishizes "ordinary joes" I assume there is some daddy issue at the heart of it.
posted by humanfont at 5:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 5:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Charity expected free event at Trump club, says it’s hit up for $20,000
A charity golf tournament scheduled for the day before Election Day at Donald Trump’s West Palm Beach course has turned sour, with the charity, the Boys and Girls Clubs of Palm Beach County, saying the Trump people are charging unexpected fees that will cut into proceeds.I can understand the course not providing free catering, but:
Trump International Golf Club, near Palm Beach International Airport, is on county land. As a condition of the original lease agreement since the facility opened in 1996, the golf club must make its links available at times for charity tournaments.
This year, the charity benefits Boys and Girls Clubs of Palm Beach County and is scheduled for Nov. 7.
“This ‘free’ event is costing us $20,000 between golf and catering fees,” Mark Casale, vice president of philanthropy for the Boys and Girls Clubs, complained Tuesday in an email to County Commissioner Melissa McKinlay and Assistant County Administrator Todd Bonlarron. “What we had hoped for as far as a ‘net’ income for this event has been cut in half (if we are lucky).”
Casale had said in his original email to the county that a supplier donated beer and wine but that Trump International, which initially said there would be no problem, now would not sign a one-day waiver of its exclusivity rights and the clubs would have to buy the liquor from the course. Casale also said the course is charging golf fees of $6,000 to $7,000. He said catering fees “were recently lowered from almost $20,000 to $13,000 only because we removed many of the items on the menu.”posted by zachlipton at 5:17 PM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
The Atlantic: Another Victim of This Election: The Verb 'To Trump'
It had a good run. According to Eleanor Maier, an associate editor at the Oxford English Dictionary, trump first entered English in the late 14th century, as the modern language was taking shape.posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:22 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Has Matthews always been like this?
The Lefty blogosphere has been calling him "Tweety Bird" for years.
posted by Sara C. at 5:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Lefty blogosphere has been calling him "Tweety Bird" for years.
posted by Sara C. at 5:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Generally I don't listen to conspiracy chatter, but I've heard direct experiences from four or five people who I know have voted so far. All these people have master's degrees or higher.
Being a reasonably smart person with an advanced degree in no way means you have any particular skill at navigating poorly-designed user interfaces on shitty old hardware that you might see once every two or four years.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
Being a reasonably smart person with an advanced degree in no way means you have any particular skill at navigating poorly-designed user interfaces on shitty old hardware that you might see once every two or four years.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
Ugh. Chris Matthews makes me want to scream.
On the other hand, Elizabeth Warren is live, calling Trump a selfish little sleazeball.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:26 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
On the other hand, Elizabeth Warren is live, calling Trump a selfish little sleazeball.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:26 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yes, "Trump" was once a perfectly cromulent word, useful and fun to say. Now, sadly, it is practically hate speech.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Has Matthews always been like this?
He's an artifact from a different time -- Carter speech writer, Tip O'Neil's COS. The best we can hope for is that he retires soon (he's almost 71) and they give his slot to someone like Joy Reid.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
He's an artifact from a different time -- Carter speech writer, Tip O'Neil's COS. The best we can hope for is that he retires soon (he's almost 71) and they give his slot to someone like Joy Reid.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Every two to four years, Xenophobe? Hell, I've been to seminars where five people with as many PhDs between them couldn't figure out how to turn on the same projector that they use to deliver presentations every damn week.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
Remember how we were talking about how the Republicans waged a sustained campaign of obstructionism against Obama literally from the day of his inauguration?
Well, here are some specifics of the welcome mat they plan to roll out for HRC. I just got this email from Bill Foster (emph mine):
Foster has been fighting to revoke the expanded subpoena authority, but you can pretty much guess how that fight is going to go as long as the GOP has control; why would they deprive themselves of such a useful tool?
(And by tool I mean Lamar Smith.)
So there's a sliver of what we can expect. It's going to be a bleak winter.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [75 favorites]
Well, here are some specifics of the welcome mat they plan to roll out for HRC. I just got this email from Bill Foster (emph mine):
As the only Ph.D. scientist in Congress and a member of the House Science Committee, I spend a certain amount of my time dealing with Republican nonsense. They question climate change and evolution, ridicule research that they either do not understand or might not like the results of, and they bring the abortion debate into every subject imaginable.Foster is not exaggerating one bit about Lamar Smith's intentions. We've discussed Lamar Smith's abuse of subpoena power against scientists he doesn't like previously on the Blue (and more and more). When Smith tells Breitbart he intends to use the exact same tactic to twist the House Science Committee against Clinton, we should believe him.
Last Friday, Lamar Smith, the Republican Chairman of the House Science Committee, hit a new low. As reported in Breitbart and other right wing news sites, he now plans to initiate contempt proceedings and force a floor vote when Congress reconvenes after the election, as part of his campaign to inject the Science Committee into investigations of Hillary Clinton's email server.
The abuse of unilateral subpoena power -- the ability of Committee Chairs to issue subpoenas without consulting with or informing any other members of the Committee -- is one of the worst procedural changes instituted by the Republican majority in Congress. In the Science Committee, Chairman Smith has used this power to threaten researchers, States' Attorneys General, and ordinary citizens during his politically motivated witch hunts.
As reported last January, Chairman Smith has been chomping at the bit to start abusing his unilateral subpoena power. He apparently believes that Science Committee oversight of cybersecurity issues justifies this political posturing, so that he can go in front of news cameras and wave around copies of Secretary Clinton's emails.
Foster has been fighting to revoke the expanded subpoena authority, but you can pretty much guess how that fight is going to go as long as the GOP has control; why would they deprive themselves of such a useful tool?
(And by tool I mean Lamar Smith.)
So there's a sliver of what we can expect. It's going to be a bleak winter.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [75 favorites]
Westringia, it's things like that that make me wish MetaFilter had a "disappointed headshake" option as well as the "favorite" one.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
We might still win the House, keep faith.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Has anyone seen any reports of these voting machines switching selections from R to D as well as from D to R? This ballot switching thing is a well-known bug that's cropped up in past elections as well, but it was never clear to me if it was bi-directional or not. Living in my bubble as I do, it's hard to tell whether it's the effect that is unidirectional or just the outrage.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
(It really goes to show how incredibly shoddy our country's voting machines are, though. It's literally criminal how bad they are.)
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Has anyone seen any reports of these voting machines switching selections from R to D as well as from D to R? This ballot switching thing is a well-known bug that's cropped up in past elections as well, but it was never clear to me if it was bi-directional or not. Living in my bubble as I do, it's hard to tell whether it's the effect that is unidirectional or just the outrage.
There is a link upthread to the Snopes article that debunks the stories coming out of Texas. At least there it's been deemed user error.
posted by Jalliah at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2016
There is a link upthread to the Snopes article that debunks the stories coming out of Texas. At least there it's been deemed user error.
posted by Jalliah at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2016
It's almost like the election is rigged. /s (in case it wasn't obvious)
posted by jferg at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by jferg at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2016
zachlipton, you might think that a businessperson would be looking for a nice charitable deduction on his/her corporate income taxes and take advantage of this opportunity to do a good deed while gaining that deduction. You might think. So, is it that the Trump Organization doesn't owe enough in taxes to pursue this deduction? Maybe this organization just doesn't do charity? Hard to say, but it's yet another stain on the reputation of all things Trump.
posted by Silverstone at 5:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Silverstone at 5:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Chris Matthews makes me want to scream
Are you sure that feeling isn't Love, Actually?
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Are you sure that feeling isn't Love, Actually?
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:41 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
(It really goes to show how incredibly shoddy our country's voting machines are, though. It's literally criminal how bad they are.)
It also provides a lot of deniability if they're deliberately misconfigured.
posted by indubitable at 5:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
It also provides a lot of deniability if they're deliberately misconfigured.
posted by indubitable at 5:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
We might still win the House, keep faith.
TTTCS
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
TTTCS
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Yes, "Trump" was once a perfectly cromulent word, useful and fun to say. Now, sadly, it is practically hate speech.
I'm a bridge player. It's getting kind of depressing and hard to enjoy my hobby.
posted by gaspode at 5:46 PM on October 25, 2016 [25 favorites]
Does anyone remember back in '03 when the CEO of Diebold (now Premier Election Solutions) proudly proclaimed that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president [George W Bush] next year?" Which was followed by reports of irregularities in the vote counting in Ohio, a story which seemed to die even as it broke? The same voting machines are still in use across the country.
I mean, just have a skim of this Wikipedia article on Premier Election Solutions. The whole operation stinks to high heaven, and hearing about it all as it unfolded back in the early aughts permanently undermined my faith in American democracy.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
I mean, just have a skim of this Wikipedia article on Premier Election Solutions. The whole operation stinks to high heaven, and hearing about it all as it unfolded back in the early aughts permanently undermined my faith in American democracy.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm a bridge player. It's getting kind of depressing and hard to enjoy my hobby.
"Hearts are Clinton!"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Hearts are Clinton!"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Just got an email that Elizabeth Warren and our kinda boring Dem Senate candidate are going to be rallying in the building I work in tomorrow. I shall report!
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
In Hawaiian, the word kāmau means "to trump" in the context of playing whist and surely in context of bridge, too. I encourage all of you to use kāmau instead.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
So there's a sliver of what we can expect. It's going to be a bleak winter.
And there's the looming specter of the 2017 budget. The current continuing resolution runs out December 9th, right in the middle of the lame duck session. If Congress (very likely) punts again into the new year, the Republicans will come back with a reduced, razor thin margin in the House, and probably a Democratic Senate.
Somehow Paul Ryan (or whoever the fuck from Freedom replaces him, Louie Goehmert, maybe), has to shepherd his first real budget into being without John Boehner doing the real work of taking the FOX/Rush/27% bullet for him, or the government shuts down weeks into Clinton's term. The same dynamic is still there, and is not going away. 50-80 House Republicans will accept no budget that doesn't zero out domestic spending. Every other member of the House Republican caucus is petrified to work with Democrats for fear of a primary, or at this point, maybe just generalized fear of their own supporters after seeing what they've unleashed.
Repeat for 2 years, then it gets worse when the Dems lose back the Senate in 2018. It's going to be a great 4 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
And there's the looming specter of the 2017 budget. The current continuing resolution runs out December 9th, right in the middle of the lame duck session. If Congress (very likely) punts again into the new year, the Republicans will come back with a reduced, razor thin margin in the House, and probably a Democratic Senate.
Somehow Paul Ryan (or whoever the fuck from Freedom replaces him, Louie Goehmert, maybe), has to shepherd his first real budget into being without John Boehner doing the real work of taking the FOX/Rush/27% bullet for him, or the government shuts down weeks into Clinton's term. The same dynamic is still there, and is not going away. 50-80 House Republicans will accept no budget that doesn't zero out domestic spending. Every other member of the House Republican caucus is petrified to work with Democrats for fear of a primary, or at this point, maybe just generalized fear of their own supporters after seeing what they've unleashed.
Repeat for 2 years, then it gets worse when the Dems lose back the Senate in 2018. It's going to be a great 4 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:54 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
TWO NO TRUMP
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
(To clarify, the primary meaning of kāmau is to persevere or to carry on. The "trump" meaning is one that is particularly associated with Hawaiian pidgin English and, while not a common word, is one most old timers know and associate with playing cards)
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Does anyone remember back in '03 when the CEO of Diebold (now Premier Election Solutions) proudly proclaimed that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president [George W Bush] next year?" Which was followed by reports of irregularities in the vote counting in Ohio, a story which seemed to die even as it broke? The same voting machines are still in use across the country.
I dont remember it dying, but I sure do remember it. Some fishy shit in Ohio in 04.
posted by rp at 5:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I dont remember it dying, but I sure do remember it. Some fishy shit in Ohio in 04.
posted by rp at 5:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Repeat after me:
Pencil and paper.
Pencil. And. Paper.
posted by Yowser at 6:04 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Pencil and paper.
Pencil. And. Paper.
posted by Yowser at 6:04 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Welp, I signed up to be a poll watcher. If anyone has done this before, did you have to wear anything identifying you as a poll watcher for a specific party? I'm a little concerned that we might have some pro-Trump clients who will take offense at my poll watching for the Dems.
posted by HotToddy at 6:08 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by HotToddy at 6:08 PM on October 25, 2016
> And there's the looming specter of the 2017 budget.
OMG, don't even get me started. I am utterly sick with dread about that.
The BEST CASE scenario is that the lame-duck congress punts on Dec 9th and extends the CR through the inauguration. They're certainly not going to pass a real budget. In the interim, both NIH and NSF are holding their breath on making funding decisions because they don't have a FY17 budget. Hundreds of research grants which should have been awarded in October are in limbo, and will remain so until February at earliest, after a the FY17 appropriation is passed by the new congress. In consequence, research is slowing. Without award decisions, researchers can't commit resources to carry out experiments or make educated budget forecasts to plan for the future of our labs. Personally, I'm losing sleep: I have postdocs & grads to support, and I have bunch of proposals that I won't have an answer for any time soon. But it's not just me; lots of important, life-saving, beneficial research is being held up by Republican obstructionist shenanigans.
And that's the best case.
Consider: passing this CR was like pulling teeth, and that was before the election, when lawmakers had to consider how obstructing things like Zika funding would affect their electability. Can you imagine how it will go in December, when this congress literally has nothing to lose? There are those who would love nothing more than to maximally fuck over the last days of the Obama administration and make things maximally painful for an incoming Clinton administration, and Republicans have the majority. I will be quite surprised if we don't have a gov't shutdown on the 9th, to be honest, and repercussions from a shutdown would persist well into next year.
posted by Westringia F. at 6:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [40 favorites]
OMG, don't even get me started. I am utterly sick with dread about that.
The BEST CASE scenario is that the lame-duck congress punts on Dec 9th and extends the CR through the inauguration. They're certainly not going to pass a real budget. In the interim, both NIH and NSF are holding their breath on making funding decisions because they don't have a FY17 budget. Hundreds of research grants which should have been awarded in October are in limbo, and will remain so until February at earliest, after a the FY17 appropriation is passed by the new congress. In consequence, research is slowing. Without award decisions, researchers can't commit resources to carry out experiments or make educated budget forecasts to plan for the future of our labs. Personally, I'm losing sleep: I have postdocs & grads to support, and I have bunch of proposals that I won't have an answer for any time soon. But it's not just me; lots of important, life-saving, beneficial research is being held up by Republican obstructionist shenanigans.
And that's the best case.
Consider: passing this CR was like pulling teeth, and that was before the election, when lawmakers had to consider how obstructing things like Zika funding would affect their electability. Can you imagine how it will go in December, when this congress literally has nothing to lose? There are those who would love nothing more than to maximally fuck over the last days of the Obama administration and make things maximally painful for an incoming Clinton administration, and Republicans have the majority. I will be quite surprised if we don't have a gov't shutdown on the 9th, to be honest, and repercussions from a shutdown would persist well into next year.
posted by Westringia F. at 6:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [40 favorites]
Rachel Maddow has an exclusive with a former rental agent for Fred and Donald Trump who says Fred told him, with Donald in the room, when responding to a black woman's application, "We don't rent to the N-word."
posted by chris24 at 6:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Well, if you needed any more proof that Trump's motto is Fuck you, I got mine. This should be helpful.
fuckyouigotmine.com
posted by procrastination at 6:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
fuckyouigotmine.com
posted by procrastination at 6:24 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I am curious, does anyone know where they sourced the hats? Were they made in the USA? All my Hillary Swag is made in the USA, and nice quality. It seems like getting something made outside the US for a presidential campaign would be dumb, but who knows. *shrug*
posted by annsunny at 6:32 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by annsunny at 6:32 PM on October 25, 2016
"We don't rent to the N-word."
A bit more info. NBC is doing a deep dive report on the housing discrimination lawsuits against the Trump companies in the 70s and 80s. As part of that, they interviewed the rental agent to get his confirmation of being instructed to not rent to blacks. In the midst of this interview, the agent was giving details of what Fred Trump instructed him to do and he says Fred told him to put the application in a drawer because "We don't rent to the N-word." The interviewer seemed surprised and asked for confirmation which the agent gave. They later confirmed with him that Donald was also there and asked him what Donald's reaction was. He said Donald nodded in agreement with his father.
posted by chris24 at 6:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
A bit more info. NBC is doing a deep dive report on the housing discrimination lawsuits against the Trump companies in the 70s and 80s. As part of that, they interviewed the rental agent to get his confirmation of being instructed to not rent to blacks. In the midst of this interview, the agent was giving details of what Fred Trump instructed him to do and he says Fred told him to put the application in a drawer because "We don't rent to the N-word." The interviewer seemed surprised and asked for confirmation which the agent gave. They later confirmed with him that Donald was also there and asked him what Donald's reaction was. He said Donald nodded in agreement with his father.
posted by chris24 at 6:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
And Hillary swag is union made! I'm guessing there isn't a union bug to be found anywhere on Trump swag (tho' I'd be glad to be proven wrong).
posted by Westringia F. at 6:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Westringia F. at 6:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am curious, does anyone know where they sourced the hats? Were they made in the USA?
I mean, did you even have to ask
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, did you even have to ask
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
So what's the betting on a report of Donald casually dropping the N-word himself by the time this thing is through?
posted by Artw at 6:38 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by Artw at 6:38 PM on October 25, 2016
I'm a bridge player. It's getting kind of depressing and hard to enjoy my hobby.
Agreed.
Signed, Sad Euchre Player
posted by chaoticgood at 6:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Agreed.
Signed, Sad Euchre Player
posted by chaoticgood at 6:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Tim Kaine's interview with Rachel is softball but entertaining. There was some discussion about whether a SLOTUS can be styled as such if there is no FLOTUS. I am guessing it will be FGOTUS and SLOTUS, but now might be the time to throw caution to the wind and just switch to First and Second Spouse. Also Tim and Hillary communicate in sekrut spy k0d3z and methods because hackers and are superstitious about overconfidence.
posted by xyzzy at 6:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 6:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
If anyone has done this before, did you have to wear anything identifying you as a poll watcher for a specific party? I'm a little concerned that we might have some pro-Trump clients who will take offense at my poll watching for the Dems.
Here in the South, I'm told (this is my first time too) that we just dress in our Sunday Best. Nobody can visually tell who you are.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:56 PM on October 25, 2016
Here in the South, I'm told (this is my first time too) that we just dress in our Sunday Best. Nobody can visually tell who you are.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:56 PM on October 25, 2016
"We don't rent to the N-word."
Not much of a surprise there. It's known that Fred was a Klucker, so naturally he used language like that. And we know that Donnie followed him around, so he must've heard it on many occasions. Still, worth having it on the record.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not much of a surprise there. It's known that Fred was a Klucker, so naturally he used language like that. And we know that Donnie followed him around, so he must've heard it on many occasions. Still, worth having it on the record.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:57 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I had dinner with my parents tonight. They voted early today. My mom told me that all the local Trump signs made her afraid to go her polling place on election day; this is coming from an otherwise fearless woman who volunteered at women’s health clinics to escort women through the throngs of the ‘godly’ anti-abortion protestors in the late 1980’s and early ’90’s. She dragged me along when I was in jr high and high shool and I remember being really confused by being spit on by people wielding bibles. She’s a pro-choice, pro-boob, no nonsense, La Leche League, in your face extremist, my darling mom; but now Trump yard signs are enough to make her feel unsafe.
On my way to their house tonite, I passed a ridiculous Trump roadside shrine. There was a big 4’x8’ TRUMP/PENCE sign surrounded by a phalanx of regular yard signs, illuminated by improvised flood lights, with flags flying over top. There was the Gadsden flag, but there were also two flags that pissed me off; they were both regular US flags but with a blue banner across the bottom third with the words printed in white “We support the troops”.
Anybody who is a boyscout or not a complete shithead should know from US Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(g): The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.*
Right, so this patriot thought his cause was important enough to defile the flag, but it's okay if you're a republican I guess.
To top it off, there was an electrified cattle fence surrounding his Trump shrine, to protect that shitshow from his imaginary enemies. So I laughed a little and then was pretty sad about it all.
* https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
posted by peeedro at 7:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [34 favorites]
On my way to their house tonite, I passed a ridiculous Trump roadside shrine. There was a big 4’x8’ TRUMP/PENCE sign surrounded by a phalanx of regular yard signs, illuminated by improvised flood lights, with flags flying over top. There was the Gadsden flag, but there were also two flags that pissed me off; they were both regular US flags but with a blue banner across the bottom third with the words printed in white “We support the troops”.
Anybody who is a boyscout or not a complete shithead should know from US Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(g): The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.*
Right, so this patriot thought his cause was important enough to defile the flag, but it's okay if you're a republican I guess.
To top it off, there was an electrified cattle fence surrounding his Trump shrine, to protect that shitshow from his imaginary enemies. So I laughed a little and then was pretty sad about it all.
* https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
posted by peeedro at 7:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [34 favorites]
Newt Gingrich just lost it at Megyn Kelly (twitter), including saying "You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy, that's what I get with you tonight. . . . I wanna hear you say the words 'Bill Clinton, sexual predator. I dare ya."
posted by sallybrown at 7:03 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:03 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Do I have to do everything?!
What's Trumpdoge?
Nothin', what's Trumpdoge with you?
Wait....shit.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
What's Trumpdoge?
Nothin', what's Trumpdoge with you?
Wait....shit.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow. He. Comes off as a petulant turd.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:13 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:13 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's time to come up with a taxonomy of deplorables. I think Megyn Kelly is in the bucket, but is merely a lower deplorable.
posted by Yowser at 7:15 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by Yowser at 7:15 PM on October 25, 2016
Deplorable or not, the bidding for Megyn Kelly's next job is going to be fierce.
posted by Ber at 7:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 7:15 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Newt also referred to "the media", apparently including FOX, as like Pravda.
The post-Ailes breakup of FOX is already in progress, and it couldn't happen to a more deserving bushel of unredeemables.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
The post-Ailes breakup of FOX is already in progress, and it couldn't happen to a more deserving bushel of unredeemables.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
It's time to come up with a taxonomy of deplorables
Some crabs are the top of the bucket, some are in the middle, and a few are on the bottom. But they're all in the bucket.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Some crabs are the top of the bucket, some are in the middle, and a few are on the bottom. But they're all in the bucket.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Epistemic closure is a hell of a drug.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [18 favorites]
You know, Nixon and his CREEP team were a bunch of right bastards, but at least they had the sense not to make the Enemies List public.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
For those dreaming big, some early voting info from Texas.
@Redistrict:
Biggest TX early voting increases vs. '12 so far:
1. Travis (D) +120%
2. El Paso (D) +106%
3. Williamson (R) +95%
4. Cameron (D) +75%
@Redistrict:
Smallest TX early voting increases vs. '12 so far:
1. Fort Bend (R) +12%
2. Tarrant (R) +25%
3. Denton (R) +36%
4. Montgomery (R) +36%
posted by chris24 at 7:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
@Redistrict:
Biggest TX early voting increases vs. '12 so far:
1. Travis (D) +120%
2. El Paso (D) +106%
3. Williamson (R) +95%
4. Cameron (D) +75%
@Redistrict:
Smallest TX early voting increases vs. '12 so far:
1. Fort Bend (R) +12%
2. Tarrant (R) +25%
3. Denton (R) +36%
4. Montgomery (R) +36%
posted by chris24 at 7:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
I mean, did you even have to ask
That page has some glaring inaccuracies. For starters Ace Specialties is in Louisiana not Los Angeles. Also, I don't think it's fair to blame someone if they get screwed by their vendor as long as they made the effort.
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on October 25, 2016
That page has some glaring inaccuracies. For starters Ace Specialties is in Louisiana not Los Angeles. Also, I don't think it's fair to blame someone if they get screwed by their vendor as long as they made the effort.
posted by Talez at 7:29 PM on October 25, 2016
Don't get me wrong there are probably millions of fake MAGA hats that are made in China. But the campaign in this case paid close enough attention.
posted by Talez at 7:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 7:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's time to come up with a taxonomy of deplorables
Some of them have descended to where they are granted the time and reprieve to rhyme... but we have deplorables of our own!
"Gone, o Gone o form of Man, and arise the candidate, "Hi, I'm Tim Caine!"
And then he belches hellfire at Mike Pence. Oh, wait. We've seen the veep debate already, Harry the Cushion, your thoughts?
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Some of them have descended to where they are granted the time and reprieve to rhyme... but we have deplorables of our own!
"Gone, o Gone o form of Man, and arise the candidate, "Hi, I'm Tim Caine!"
And then he belches hellfire at Mike Pence. Oh, wait. We've seen the veep debate already, Harry the Cushion, your thoughts?
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
the champion of information transparency insisted that all his comrades at WikiLeaks sign strict NDAs.
Is that like making an atheist swear on the Bible?
posted by ctmf at 7:45 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Is that like making an atheist swear on the Bible?
posted by ctmf at 7:45 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
soren_lorensen: "Just got an email that Elizabeth Warren and our kinda boring Dem Senate candidate are going to be rallying in the building I work in tomorrow. I shall report!"
I don't know, I think McGinty could be really good.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:46 PM on October 25, 2016
I don't know, I think McGinty could be really good.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:46 PM on October 25, 2016
"Gone, o Gone o form of Man, and arise the candidate, "Hi, I'm Tim Caine!"
I endorse this appropriation.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
I endorse this appropriation.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm sure this will go over well with voters.
Heck says voters don't have right to know who he's voting for
"Senate Republican hopeful Joe Heck said Tuesday that voters don’t have the right to know who will get his vote for president.
Heck, who denounced Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump after leaked recordings surfaced of Trump talking about sexually assaulting women, has declined for the past month to say who he will vote for. On Tuesday at a national security roundtable with Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Heck said he likely would not reveal who he was voting for before the election, and voters didn’t have a right to know anyway.
“It’s a personal decision who you vote for,” Heck said. “It’s a secret ballot, just like your ballot is a secret ballot.”
posted by chris24 at 7:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Heck says voters don't have right to know who he's voting for
"Senate Republican hopeful Joe Heck said Tuesday that voters don’t have the right to know who will get his vote for president.
Heck, who denounced Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump after leaked recordings surfaced of Trump talking about sexually assaulting women, has declined for the past month to say who he will vote for. On Tuesday at a national security roundtable with Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Heck said he likely would not reveal who he was voting for before the election, and voters didn’t have a right to know anyway.
“It’s a personal decision who you vote for,” Heck said. “It’s a secret ballot, just like your ballot is a secret ballot.”
posted by chris24 at 7:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't know, I think McGinty could be really good.
Yeahbut we could have had Fetterman *kicks dirt* and I've heard a fair amount of scuttlebutt from my father in law (until recently active in a local Democratic Committee in central PA--a thankless cause if there ever was one) in re the superiority of Sestak over McGinty.
I like her fine, I donated to her campaign, I've canvassed on her behalf as part of my HFA work, but she doesn't particularly excite me beyond not being *spits* Toomey.
Warren however seems to be Hillary's anger translator these days, so I'm going to see what I can do to get into that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeahbut we could have had Fetterman *kicks dirt* and I've heard a fair amount of scuttlebutt from my father in law (until recently active in a local Democratic Committee in central PA--a thankless cause if there ever was one) in re the superiority of Sestak over McGinty.
I like her fine, I donated to her campaign, I've canvassed on her behalf as part of my HFA work, but she doesn't particularly excite me beyond not being *spits* Toomey.
Warren however seems to be Hillary's anger translator these days, so I'm going to see what I can do to get into that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
If there are no sponsored terror attacks before Election Day, it means ISIS prefers Clinton.
Oh neat, so now we're regressing past high school insults all the way back to 4th grade playground taunts? Trump has to wear a stars-and-stripes speedo on TV or it means he loves Putin! ♪♫
He has the means, you guys! Think about it!!!
You're welcome
posted by ctmf at 7:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
Oh neat, so now we're regressing past high school insults all the way back to 4th grade playground taunts? Trump has to wear a stars-and-stripes speedo on TV or it means he loves Putin! ♪♫
He has the means, you guys! Think about it!!!
You're welcome
posted by ctmf at 7:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
"It’s a personal decision who you vote for,” Heck said. “It’s a secret ballot, just like your ballot is a secret ballot.”
Well, he's technically correct, but then so is the snotty little brat who responds to every polite request by screaming "You're not the boss of me!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, he's technically correct, but then so is the snotty little brat who responds to every polite request by screaming "You're not the boss of me!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, he's technically correct,
The best kind of correct!
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:07 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
The best kind of correct!
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:07 PM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Some of them have descended to where they are granted the time and reprieve to rhyme... but we have deplorables of our own!
"Gone, o Gone o form of Man, and arise the candidate, "Hi, I'm Tim Caine!"
I want you to know that it meant a lot to me that you did that.
I endorse this appropriation.
posted by Etrigan at 9:49 PM on October 25 [+] [!]
And also that.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Gone, o Gone o form of Man, and arise the candidate, "Hi, I'm Tim Caine!"
I want you to know that it meant a lot to me that you did that.
I endorse this appropriation.
posted by Etrigan at 9:49 PM on October 25 [+] [!]
And also that.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
So, while writing a longer thing on a different subject that I might just delete and never post, I remembered a cool thing. I want to share it. Because I have never been concise even once in my life, this is going to be about as long as the short essay on a different topic I was writing. Bear with me, especially long-time MeFi's.
I used to be a young republican. When I was eight I made my own Bush for Pres sign on cardboard and put in our front lawn. Iwas am an annoying nerdy kid with too many opinions. When I was in mid High School, my politics started to become more liberal. As an annoying nerd with too many opinions, I sought out places online (Rural SD is not a great place for finding in-person liberal discussions) to begin to understand what I was starting to think about the world.
One of them was this website I'd previously only used to occasionally see some funny internet stuff. I had tended away from the openly political posts, mostly because the comments in them hadn't matched up with what I thought was right when I had read them. I decided to check out some of the threads about the upcoming democratic primaries for the 2008 presidential election. It was quite formative.
I first learned about this neat guy Barack Obama, and saw for the first time the sort of political party infighting I had never seen as a rural republican (the topic of my much longer post) on that site. I learned a lot about what I think and how I want to think critically and consider events by reading the arguments, reasoned and vicious both, on that site. I learned the value of an earnest argument between people who disagree about policy there, and I heard arguments well made by more minority voices than I'd ever been exposed to. In case I have not been leaning on it enough, it was here. Metafilter, the website name I have said more times in my life than any other besides google.
I found a weird little home on the internet, and it was on this funny little blue message board I'd first heard about on a shoutcast station way back when. I still come here every day, more than once.
What I want to be the main take away to be is that I just remembered and realized that somewhere out there there is a young teenager much like I was, quietly reading these threads and trying to understand how to think about politics and how they want to think about the upcoming presidential election.
If you were around back in '07-'08 and a frequent commenter on election related threads, then you are in part responsible for whatever political good I do, I think. I want to thank you/blame you as the case may be, and remind us all that there are young people who are reading this but not commenting, and also congratulate us on the dramatically heightened level of discourse we have now. We're doing better in many ways, and I hope we continue to get better.
posted by neonrev at 8:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [138 favorites]
I used to be a young republican. When I was eight I made my own Bush for Pres sign on cardboard and put in our front lawn. I
One of them was this website I'd previously only used to occasionally see some funny internet stuff. I had tended away from the openly political posts, mostly because the comments in them hadn't matched up with what I thought was right when I had read them. I decided to check out some of the threads about the upcoming democratic primaries for the 2008 presidential election. It was quite formative.
I first learned about this neat guy Barack Obama, and saw for the first time the sort of political party infighting I had never seen as a rural republican (the topic of my much longer post) on that site. I learned a lot about what I think and how I want to think critically and consider events by reading the arguments, reasoned and vicious both, on that site. I learned the value of an earnest argument between people who disagree about policy there, and I heard arguments well made by more minority voices than I'd ever been exposed to. In case I have not been leaning on it enough, it was here. Metafilter, the website name I have said more times in my life than any other besides google.
I found a weird little home on the internet, and it was on this funny little blue message board I'd first heard about on a shoutcast station way back when. I still come here every day, more than once.
What I want to be the main take away to be is that I just remembered and realized that somewhere out there there is a young teenager much like I was, quietly reading these threads and trying to understand how to think about politics and how they want to think about the upcoming presidential election.
If you were around back in '07-'08 and a frequent commenter on election related threads, then you are in part responsible for whatever political good I do, I think. I want to thank you/blame you as the case may be, and remind us all that there are young people who are reading this but not commenting, and also congratulate us on the dramatically heightened level of discourse we have now. We're doing better in many ways, and I hope we continue to get better.
posted by neonrev at 8:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [138 favorites]
Amanda Carpenter has a piece for WaPo: One GOP woman wonders why the men in her party won’t defend her. It's powerful stuff:
As a former communications aide to Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and former senator Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), I can personally testify that Republican women have, for years, fended off accusations from the Democrats of the party’s allegedly anti-woman beliefs. What did we get for it? The nomination — by way of a largely older, male voting base — of a brazen and unapologetic misogynist.posted by zachlipton at 8:25 PM on October 25, 2016 [73 favorites]
I want to ask the men leading the GOP some questions. Why didn’t you defend women from this raging sexist especially after so many Republican women — for so many years — eagerly defended the party from charges of sexism? You must make us out for fools.
...
Now, I don’t purport to speak for all women, but I know I am not alone. I am one of the many women the Republican Party left behind this election.
The GOP is about to learn a hard lesson when it comes to the women’s vote: defend us or lose us.
But don’t take my word for it. There’ll be a new political map, coming out Nov. 9, that will tell the GOP everything it needs to know.
Newt Gingrich just lost it at Megyn Kelly (twitter), including saying "You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy, that's what I get with you tonight. . . . I wanna hear you say the words 'Bill Clinton, sexual predator. I dare ya."
That was brutal. Absolutely brutal.
posted by Talez at 8:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
That was brutal. Absolutely brutal.
posted by Talez at 8:27 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
At this point, the CDC should just quarantine the entire Trump Campaign for rabies.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [27 favorites]
@alivitali Today's Trump term for the press: "bunch of phony low lifes."?
Is...is Trump Holden Caulfield?
Because that might explain some things.
posted by dersins at 8:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Is...is Trump Holden Caulfield?
Because that might explain some things.
posted by dersins at 8:43 PM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
(To clarify, the primary meaning of kāmau is to persevere or to carry on. The "trump" meaning is one that is particularly associated with Hawaiian pidgin English and, while not a common word, is one most old timers know and associate with playing cards)
To blow the dust off a different usage, are we still allowed to say "girls don't trump", or is that too pedestalizling?
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:44 PM on October 25, 2016
To blow the dust off a different usage, are we still allowed to say "girls don't trump", or is that too pedestalizling?
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:44 PM on October 25, 2016
I think using Trump to mean revolting ass fumes will always be acceptable.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:46 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:46 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
are we still allowed to say "girls don't trump", or is that too pedestalizling?
If this election goes the way we're hoping, it'll soon just be a bare statement of fact.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
If this election goes the way we're hoping, it'll soon just be a bare statement of fact.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
RE: Gingrich and Megyn Kelly:
@brithume: "Newt at his bullying, spinning worst. Embarrassing."
When even an awful sexist like Brit thinks you're an awful sexist...
And Romney's deputy campaign manager:
@katiepack: Men like @newtgingrich are a big reason the GOP has lost women. Men like him don't make women like me want to share a "tent" w/them.
And it's crossed the streams:
@oliverdarcy: CNN now airing the @megynkelly v. @newtgingrich exchange.
posted by chris24 at 8:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
@brithume: "Newt at his bullying, spinning worst. Embarrassing."
When even an awful sexist like Brit thinks you're an awful sexist...
And Romney's deputy campaign manager:
@katiepack: Men like @newtgingrich are a big reason the GOP has lost women. Men like him don't make women like me want to share a "tent" w/them.
And it's crossed the streams:
@oliverdarcy: CNN now airing the @megynkelly v. @newtgingrich exchange.
posted by chris24 at 8:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [31 favorites]
Conservatives and liberals alike in my Twitter feed are agog at the responses of senior Trump advisor Dan Scavino:
This means his paycheck hasn't cleared yet.
posted by srboisvert at 9:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
This means his paycheck hasn't cleared yet.
posted by srboisvert at 9:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh good, now the horrible woman gets a ratings boost and national amnesia regarding all the worst stuff she said in the past, because she slapped down a moron who was mean to her. America, meet your hero of reasoned discourse.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by middleclasstool at 9:06 PM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
I know Kelly has been awful in the past, but she was great on that. Just kept her cool and kept talking sensibly and made Newt look like the nutjob he is.
posted by suelac at 9:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by suelac at 9:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
She's been getting ratings boosts for at least the past year, having slapped down plenty of morons before this, and there are still plenty of people capable of liking her for those things while disliking her for everything else she does. Chill.
posted by palomar at 9:13 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by palomar at 9:13 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Megyn Kelly love is odd. She has these moments of clarity when something personally affects her, like the time she realized maternity leave wasn't socialism when she needed it, and she's built up enough of a personal brand to stand up to the FOX machine momentarily, then her singular moments of reasonableness takes off as a viral video clip, where no one who just sees the clip has to see the 6 hours of Deplorable Megyn that preceded the 30 second exchange where she was a decent person.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [33 favorites]
Wow, they are all losing their minds. You have to see the image he tweeted with this.
@seanhannity: Journalism is DEAD IN AMERICA! [image]
posted by chris24 at 9:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
@seanhannity: Journalism is DEAD IN AMERICA! [image]
posted by chris24 at 9:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [23 favorites]
One GOP woman wonders why the men in her party won’t defend her.
I found the interstitial article links almost as interesting as the main story.
Every few paragraphs, there's a link to another story. The third one is, [Here’s how fashion designers imagine the first woman president]. A few paragraphs below that, we get, [Why can’t women just be themselves in politics?]
Gee, I wonder.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I found the interstitial article links almost as interesting as the main story.
Every few paragraphs, there's a link to another story. The third one is, [Here’s how fashion designers imagine the first woman president]. A few paragraphs below that, we get, [Why can’t women just be themselves in politics?]
Gee, I wonder.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:30 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Megyn Kelly also has a sincere and thorough appreciation for Jaws. For that, and for the Newt smackdown, I feel ok about liking her just a little bit, for today.
posted by invincible summer at 9:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by invincible summer at 9:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Wow, they are all losing their minds. You have to see the image he tweeted with this.
Hannity is in the final stages before he jumps from FOX to his own network/TrumpTV.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hannity is in the final stages before he jumps from FOX to his own network/TrumpTV.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:32 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow, they are all losing their minds. You have to see the image he tweeted with this.
Trump and his followers have to be part of some sort of ultra-immersive performance art, right? Please? At this point I'd be happy to discover that all the cool kids are laughing at how gullible I was to buy it all.
posted by bibliowench at 9:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump and his followers have to be part of some sort of ultra-immersive performance art, right? Please? At this point I'd be happy to discover that all the cool kids are laughing at how gullible I was to buy it all.
posted by bibliowench at 9:40 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Well now they've gone and fucked with John Wick.
posted by Artw at 9:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sopan Deb: In Florida, Donald Trump tries to stay on message (and doesn't)
Tuesday evening, however, included a campaign stop in Tallahassee, where Trump told the crowd that he’d “love” to take on Vice President Joe Biden in some fisticuffs -- maybe the first time a national political figure has brought up the possibility of violence involving a sitting vice president since Aaron Burr shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in 1804.Meanwhile, efforts to show a united front between Trump and Pence hit yet another setback today. Oops: Mike Pence Called Trump ‘My Opponent’ During MSNBC Interview
Mike Pence accidentally referred to Donald Trump as his “opponent” on MSNBC tonight. Pence was speaking with Brian Williams about how the media won’t pay attention to how corrupt Hillary Clinton is. And then he said, “It’s truly remarkable to me that unsubstantiated allegations against my opponent have gotten so much media attention.” That was a reference to Trump. Oops.posted by zachlipton at 9:52 PM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
No, it sounds like a bit of accidental truth-telling because it IS truly remarkable that unsubstantiated allegations against Hillary Clinton have gotten so much media attention.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Among the many, many things that are making me angry and resentful about this election season, is the fact that I am now feeling sympathetic towards Megyn freaking Kelly. I blame Trump and Gingrich for this, among so many other things. I do not want to like that woman. I don't like that woman. But I'm feeling sympathetic towards her right now. Help!
posted by gingerbeer at 10:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 10:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
There's a continuum of awfulness. Gingrich and Trump are at a pretty extreme place on that continuum. Megyn Kelly has clearly decided to occupy a less extreme place recently, perhaps for the very simple reason that Trump unleashed an ill-advised dose of douchery on her during the primaries. We don't have to call her a friend yet, but it looks like she's learning and that is to be commended.
posted by wabbittwax at 10:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 10:08 PM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't like that woman. But I'm feeling sympathetic towards her right now. Help!
A vile person can be the target of vicious, unfounded attacks. In fact, it's rather more common than for a kind, empathic, and generous person. She made a career of bile and slurs, and now she finds herself on the receiving end instead of dishing it out.
Those of us who practice compassion are going to feel for anyone being attacked - but that doesn't mean you can't also think, "she brought this on herself. She picked this career, these people to spend time with, knowing that they lash out at whoever they perceive as weaker."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
A vile person can be the target of vicious, unfounded attacks. In fact, it's rather more common than for a kind, empathic, and generous person. She made a career of bile and slurs, and now she finds herself on the receiving end instead of dishing it out.
Those of us who practice compassion are going to feel for anyone being attacked - but that doesn't mean you can't also think, "she brought this on herself. She picked this career, these people to spend time with, knowing that they lash out at whoever they perceive as weaker."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:10 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
she brought this on herself
Wow, really? She was asking for it? Ok then.
posted by dersins at 10:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
Wow, really? She was asking for it? Ok then.
posted by dersins at 10:16 PM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
When you're playing with fire, you're apt to get yourself burned, but that doesn't mean you deserve to get turned to ash.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:19 PM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Megyn Kelly has clearly decided to occupy a less extreme place recently, perhaps for the very simple reason that Trump unleashed an ill-advised dose of douchery on her during the primaries.
Also her contract's up and she's mulling jumping to CNN. Tacking to the center makes that credible.
posted by Diablevert at 10:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also her contract's up and she's mulling jumping to CNN. Tacking to the center makes that credible.
posted by Diablevert at 10:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Bernie Sanders: ‘We must do everything possible’ to press Clinton on AT&T-Time Warner
In other AT&T news: AT&T Is Spying on Americans for Profit, New Documents Reveal. The telecom giant is doing NSA-style work for law enforcement—without a warrant—and earning millions of dollars a year from taxpayers.
posted by homunculus at 10:29 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
In other AT&T news: AT&T Is Spying on Americans for Profit, New Documents Reveal. The telecom giant is doing NSA-style work for law enforcement—without a warrant—and earning millions of dollars a year from taxpayers.
posted by homunculus at 10:29 PM on October 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Trump and Gingrich and Giuliani (and perhaps Hannity) are rapidly approaching "belong to the past"; Megyn Kelly has no desire to follow them there. This isn't to say she's simply looking after her career, but whatever happens after the election, the post-Ailes Fox News will be different and Megyn Kelly's position as the lone woman anchor (and lone graduate of Fox News Interchangeable Blonde Technical College) will change. (Or she'll jump networks.)
I'd tag this alongside how Shep Smith officially and quietly came out last week to the surprise of nobody. Regardless of what happens to the elected institutional GOP if the polls are borne out, It surely surely ends the careers of those unelected GOPers who flew on the 757 tilll the end, who can join Huckabee and Santorum and Carson and whoever on the "audience of dozens" wingnut circuit. (Pence may get the Senate nod in 2018 for taking one for the team. Or maybe not.)
Murdoch properties never collectively prop up an obvious loser. Fox News is in the business of self-preservation, and it's working out what its future needs to be: no less conservative, but not covered with the stench of Trump.
posted by holgate at 10:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'd tag this alongside how Shep Smith officially and quietly came out last week to the surprise of nobody. Regardless of what happens to the elected institutional GOP if the polls are borne out, It surely surely ends the careers of those unelected GOPers who flew on the 757 tilll the end, who can join Huckabee and Santorum and Carson and whoever on the "audience of dozens" wingnut circuit. (Pence may get the Senate nod in 2018 for taking one for the team. Or maybe not.)
Murdoch properties never collectively prop up an obvious loser. Fox News is in the business of self-preservation, and it's working out what its future needs to be: no less conservative, but not covered with the stench of Trump.
posted by holgate at 10:34 PM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is not difficult math, y'all. Megyn Kelly stinks, but Newt Gingrich is a lying, hypocritical woman-hating greed-head trying to prop up an actual bonafide fascist. Team Non-Fascist all the way.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:35 PM on October 25, 2016 [30 favorites]
Wow, Hemisphere is some warrantless bullshit.
posted by xyzzy at 10:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 10:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Still, with the exit of Ailes, management of FoxNews is reportedly falling to one of Rupert's less doctrinaire-conservative sons. The possibility for a less batshit FNC, closer to a Wall Street Journal, is getting more likely, and reasonableness may be valuable positioning if Trump/Breitbart make a strong appeal to the batshit (especially if they take Hannity and a couple other major batshit contributors).
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow, Hemisphere is some warrantless bullshit.
That level of epithet is better directed at Caress of Steel IMHO.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
That level of epithet is better directed at Caress of Steel IMHO.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well, he's technically correct,
The best kind of correct!
I'M HERE TO HELP
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
The best kind of correct!
I'M HERE TO HELP
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Have we really not moved on from the Canadian rock? It's like time stands still around here.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 12:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Contrary to popular belief, politicians often keep campaign promises
My Tory-voting dad certainly believes so; in fact, he has often said that he votes for the candidate who promises the least because he reckons that is the one who will require the fewest tax dollars to deliver on them.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
My Tory-voting dad certainly believes so; in fact, he has often said that he votes for the candidate who promises the least because he reckons that is the one who will require the fewest tax dollars to deliver on them.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Sys Rq, thank you for reminding me of how hilariously bad Rush's music videos are despite how much I love their music
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:39 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:39 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
In other AT&T news: AT&T Is Spying on Americans for Profit, New Documents Reveal. The telecom giant is doing NSA-style work for law enforcement—without a warrant—and earning millions of dollars a year from taxpayers.
Am I having a flashback ( or a stroke? ). Wasn't this all like 2006 ? the Klein deposition in EFF v. AT&T?
posted by mikelieman at 1:21 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Am I having a flashback ( or a stroke? ). Wasn't this all like 2006 ? the Klein deposition in EFF v. AT&T?
posted by mikelieman at 1:21 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
So it's come to this: Obama calls GOP Rep. Issa ‘shameless’ for trying to portray himself as ally
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:15 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:15 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted; we don't need to continue on with a big fight about how much sympathy anyone does or doesn't have for Megyn Kelly. If folks are bored with regular election stuff, I totally understand, but maybe take a break and come back later when there's more to talk about.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 3:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
*Justinian handcuffs himself to the radiator*
You can't make me leave!
posted by Justinian at 3:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
You can't make me leave!
posted by Justinian at 3:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
No, but I can start playing songs from the "most despised" list thread and you'll be searching for your handcuff key before we finish the "A"s.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Bring on the Belinda Carlisle! I can do wicked karaoke versions of "Circle in the Sand" and "Heaven is a Place on Earth"...
How's your mad karaoke skills, Justinian?
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 3:24 AM on October 26, 2016
How's your mad karaoke skills, Justinian?
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 3:24 AM on October 26, 2016
Wow, they are all losing their minds. You have to see the image he tweeted with this.
@seanhannity: Journalism is DEAD IN AMERICA! [image]
My god, that picture. And poor Trump in the middle of it all: calm, quiet, contemplative. It's the story of this election.
posted by PlusDistance at 3:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
@seanhannity: Journalism is DEAD IN AMERICA! [image]
My god, that picture. And poor Trump in the middle of it all: calm, quiet, contemplative. It's the story of this election.
posted by PlusDistance at 3:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
That's the poster for the John Wick sequel that they've photoshopped Trump over Keanu Reeves.
posted by octothorpe at 3:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 3:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Ah, I get it now. I bet the John Wick people are kicking themselves that they didn't label all the hands holding the guns.
posted by PlusDistance at 3:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 3:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
So are the media about to fall for this "we need to show it live for 45 minutes" trick with Trimp and this stupid hotel? Is that today?
posted by cashman at 4:30 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 4:30 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's a double bluff! The media will show up because they think he's blowing a late campaign day advertising one of his branded properties when really he's going to drop a one-hit kill oppo!
He's been laying the groundwork for this ever since the faux Birther apology!
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's been laying the groundwork for this ever since the faux Birther apology!
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mitch McConnell: The Biggest Coward in American Politics
posted by zombieflanders at 4:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 4:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
My god, that picture. And poor Trump in the middle of it all: calm, quiet, contemplative. It's the story of this election.
I don't see the problem with Trump surrounded by a circle of guns. None of those people have fired their guns and the Republicans support open carry and stand your ground right?
Or are Trumpets for gun control now?
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't see the problem with Trump surrounded by a circle of guns. None of those people have fired their guns and the Republicans support open carry and stand your ground right?
Or are Trumpets for gun control now?
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
DeRay Mckesson: Why I'm Voting for Hillary Clinton
posted by sallybrown at 5:15 AM on October 26, 2016 [68 favorites]
I’ve been thinking lately about Shirley Chisholm’s legacy and her words: “Freedom is an endless horizon, and there are many roads that lead to it.” As Chisholm understood, we engage in imperfect systems sometimes, to make them more perfect. And our engagement in democracy comes in many forms — we engage in democracy in protests, in board meetings, in classrooms and, importantly, at the ballot.He will get called a sellout and an attention-seeker from one side for this and a "thug" and do-nothing from the other. But he's a brave man and it's a great piece.
I am not naive enough to believe that voting is the only way to bring about transformational change, just as I know that protest alone is not the sole solution to the challenges we face.
I voted my entire life, and I was still tear-gassed in the streets of St. Louis and Baltimore. I voted my entire life, and those votes did not convict the killers of Sandra Bland, Freddie Gray or Michael Brown.
But elections do have consequences. . . .
Make no mistake, I do not agree with Clinton on everything. For that matter, there are few people in the world with whom I agree on everything.
Her platform should call for an end to the death penalty. It should end the federal government’s “Equitable Sharing Program,” which helps police take cash and property from people who are never convicted of wrongdoing. And when I met with her last week, I asked her to address not only how the federal government should treat nonviolent drug offenders but also the many others whose lives have been impacted by the system of mass incarceration.
But I agree with Clinton more than I disagree with her.
posted by sallybrown at 5:15 AM on October 26, 2016 [68 favorites]
"who pounds a rubber-gloved fist on the podium so hard it knocks the Seal askew and declares that Dammit there just must be some people besides each other of us to blame": When David Foster Wallace predicted Donald Trump.
In case anyone hasn't read this yet, you should go read it, right now. Not least because Continental Interdependence Day, the day it all went to hell in the Organization of North American Nations, is November 8th.
posted by Mayor West at 5:20 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
In case anyone hasn't read this yet, you should go read it, right now. Not least because Continental Interdependence Day, the day it all went to hell in the Organization of North American Nations, is November 8th.
posted by Mayor West at 5:20 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
He will get called a sellout and an attention-seeker from one side
Thank you. I'd hate to have to wait for someone to actually say something like this before we can start condemning them.
posted by indubitable at 5:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thank you. I'd hate to have to wait for someone to actually say something like this before we can start condemning them.
posted by indubitable at 5:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I want to ask the men leading the GOP some questions. Why didn’t you defend women from this raging sexist especially after so many Republican women — for so many years — eagerly defended the party from charges of sexism?
Um, perhaps because all those charges of sexism were accurate? I'm glad these staunchly conservative/Republican women are experiencing this type of awakening and sorry as well; it's not fun to watch a bunch of people being disillusioned, and it has to hurt to discover something really ugly about your friends that you've been studiously staying blind to for decades. It sure would be nice if they could admit, "Hey, other feminists: you were right all along; sorry we contemptuously called you assholes and mocked you for it," but I won't hold my breath, and I'd be happy to welcome them aboard the Anti-Misogyny bus even if the rest of our politics diverge.
I'll be curious to see what conservative women do with this. Where do they go from here, when they now know very clearly that they're not welcome in the Republican/right boyzone but don't feel ideologically comfortable elsewhere either? Do they just studiously forget again as soon as Trump is dealt with? Try to tear down the mancave and build some alternative? Slide over to the far right edge of the Democratic party like Joe Lieberman or whoever? Should be an interesting few years.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [39 favorites]
Um, perhaps because all those charges of sexism were accurate? I'm glad these staunchly conservative/Republican women are experiencing this type of awakening and sorry as well; it's not fun to watch a bunch of people being disillusioned, and it has to hurt to discover something really ugly about your friends that you've been studiously staying blind to for decades. It sure would be nice if they could admit, "Hey, other feminists: you were right all along; sorry we contemptuously called you assholes and mocked you for it," but I won't hold my breath, and I'd be happy to welcome them aboard the Anti-Misogyny bus even if the rest of our politics diverge.
I'll be curious to see what conservative women do with this. Where do they go from here, when they now know very clearly that they're not welcome in the Republican/right boyzone but don't feel ideologically comfortable elsewhere either? Do they just studiously forget again as soon as Trump is dealt with? Try to tear down the mancave and build some alternative? Slide over to the far right edge of the Democratic party like Joe Lieberman or whoever? Should be an interesting few years.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [39 favorites]
The Primary Concerns podcast from the New Republic is particularly good this week with an interview with Norm Ornstein. Give it a listen if you want to just enjoy a good hour long rage-seethe along with the host and guest.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
10.5 million people have already voted early. (twitter)
The total number of votes in 2012 was 129,085,410.
Less than two weeks to go!
posted by sallybrown at 5:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
The total number of votes in 2012 was 129,085,410.
Less than two weeks to go!
posted by sallybrown at 5:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Everything about this is just glorious: Trump appeared on Saint and Greavsie 25 years ago to help with the League Cup fifth-round draw.
posted by jack_mo at 5:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by jack_mo at 5:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Interpreters say it’s nearly “impossible” to translate Donald Trump’s rhetoric into other languages.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
"who pounds a rubber-gloved fist on the podium so hard it knocks the Seal askew and declares that Dammit there just must be some people besides each other of us to blame": When David Foster Wallace predicted Donald Trump.
In case anyone hasn't read this yet, you should go read it, right now. Not least because Continental Interdependence Day, the day it all went to hell in the Organization of North American Nations, is November 8th.
And, just as a weird reminder from what seems like so long ago...
posted by rp at 6:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
In case anyone hasn't read this yet, you should go read it, right now. Not least because Continental Interdependence Day, the day it all went to hell in the Organization of North American Nations, is November 8th.
And, just as a weird reminder from what seems like so long ago...
posted by rp at 6:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
When David Foster Wallace predicted Donald Trump.
(That is the only piece of Infinite Jest I have ever read. Given the scars this election cycle is leaving on me, I don't think I will ever read the rest. Sorry, DFW.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:06 AM on October 26, 2016
(That is the only piece of Infinite Jest I have ever read. Given the scars this election cycle is leaving on me, I don't think I will ever read the rest. Sorry, DFW.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:06 AM on October 26, 2016
Trump and Gingrich and Giuliani (and perhaps Hannity) are rapidly approaching "belong to the past."
I'm pleased to note that this also applies to Pete fucking Hoekstra, who will soon, one hopes, permanently stop inflicting his banal awfulness on Michigan and the nation (sorry, nation). Every time he pops up like an evil Punxsutawney Phil to spout some preposterous smirky crap about Trump, I cackle in nauseated glee.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm pleased to note that this also applies to Pete fucking Hoekstra, who will soon, one hopes, permanently stop inflicting his banal awfulness on Michigan and the nation (sorry, nation). Every time he pops up like an evil Punxsutawney Phil to spout some preposterous smirky crap about Trump, I cackle in nauseated glee.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Interpreters say it’s nearly “impossible” to translate Donald Trump’s rhetoric into other languages.
Unsurprising, since so much of it is incomprehensible even in the originalGerman English.
posted by aught at 6:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
Unsurprising, since so much of it is incomprehensible even in the original
posted by aught at 6:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
When David Foster Wallace predicted Donald Trump.
So, one of the things that Infinite Jest was about was the insidious way vapid entertainment is taking over everything else in American life. It's no surprise a populist demagogue runs things there, and I think it's a stretch to compare Trump so closely to IJ's President Gentle -- I mean, you could compare Trump similarly to Mr Dryden in Jack Womack's Ambient novels, President Windrip in Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here -- though of course the fit is approximate there as well, they're all variations on a type.
I do like the etymological connection between "Windrip" (wind rip) and "Trump," however.
posted by aught at 6:21 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, one of the things that Infinite Jest was about was the insidious way vapid entertainment is taking over everything else in American life. It's no surprise a populist demagogue runs things there, and I think it's a stretch to compare Trump so closely to IJ's President Gentle -- I mean, you could compare Trump similarly to Mr Dryden in Jack Womack's Ambient novels, President Windrip in Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here -- though of course the fit is approximate there as well, they're all variations on a type.
I do like the etymological connection between "Windrip" (wind rip) and "Trump," however.
posted by aught at 6:21 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
She has these moments of clarity when something personally affects her
This is conservatism.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [84 favorites]
This is conservatism.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [84 favorites]
Another reason why he shouldn't and can't be President.
So much conflict of interest.
Also if this gets any legs beyond the Guardian prepare for him to actually talk about the Dakota conflict and be disparaging to yet another group of Americans.
Donald Trump has close financial ties to Dakota Access pipeline company
Donald Trump’s close financial ties to Energy Transfer Partners, operators of the controversial Dakota Access oil pipeline, have been laid bare, with the presidential candidate invested in the company and receiving more than $100,000 in campaign contributions from its chief executive.
Trump’s financial disclosure forms show the Republican nominee has between $500,000 and $1m invested in Energy Transfer Partners, with a further $500,000 to $1m holding in Phillips 66, which will have a 25% stake in the Dakota Access project once completed. The information was disclosed in Trump’s May filing to the Federal Election Commission, which requires candidates to disclose their campaign finance information on a regular basis.
The financial relationship runs both ways. Kelcy Warren, chief executive of Energy Transfer Partners, has given $103,000 to elect Trump and handed over a further $66,800 to the Republican National Committee since the property developer secured the GOP’s presidential nomination.
On 29 June, Warren made $3,000 in donations to Trump’s presidential campaign. The limit for individual contributions to a candidate is $2,700 per election and it’s unclear whether Trump returned $300 to Warren. Trump’s campaign was contacted for comment.
Warren made a further $100,000 donation to the Trump Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee among Trump’s campaign, the RNC and 11 state parties, on 29 June. A day earlier, the Energy Transfer Partners chief executive doled out $66,800 in two separate donations to the RNC.
posted by Jalliah at 6:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
So much conflict of interest.
Also if this gets any legs beyond the Guardian prepare for him to actually talk about the Dakota conflict and be disparaging to yet another group of Americans.
Donald Trump has close financial ties to Dakota Access pipeline company
Donald Trump’s close financial ties to Energy Transfer Partners, operators of the controversial Dakota Access oil pipeline, have been laid bare, with the presidential candidate invested in the company and receiving more than $100,000 in campaign contributions from its chief executive.
Trump’s financial disclosure forms show the Republican nominee has between $500,000 and $1m invested in Energy Transfer Partners, with a further $500,000 to $1m holding in Phillips 66, which will have a 25% stake in the Dakota Access project once completed. The information was disclosed in Trump’s May filing to the Federal Election Commission, which requires candidates to disclose their campaign finance information on a regular basis.
The financial relationship runs both ways. Kelcy Warren, chief executive of Energy Transfer Partners, has given $103,000 to elect Trump and handed over a further $66,800 to the Republican National Committee since the property developer secured the GOP’s presidential nomination.
On 29 June, Warren made $3,000 in donations to Trump’s presidential campaign. The limit for individual contributions to a candidate is $2,700 per election and it’s unclear whether Trump returned $300 to Warren. Trump’s campaign was contacted for comment.
Warren made a further $100,000 donation to the Trump Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee among Trump’s campaign, the RNC and 11 state parties, on 29 June. A day earlier, the Energy Transfer Partners chief executive doled out $66,800 in two separate donations to the RNC.
posted by Jalliah at 6:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
That is the only piece of Infinite Jest I have ever read. Given the scars this election cycle is leaving on me, I don't think I will ever read the rest. Sorry, DFW.
Don't you want to learn more about Ann Kittenplan?
posted by thelonius at 6:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Don't you want to learn more about Ann Kittenplan?
posted by thelonius at 6:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hey everybody (who missed dances_with_sneetches' heads-up), guess whose birthday is today?
Here's a hint: My ballot came in the mail yesterday, so I know what I'm giving her!
posted by perspicio at 6:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Here's a hint: My ballot came in the mail yesterday, so I know what I'm giving her!
posted by perspicio at 6:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Blerrgghh. Between FiveThirtyEight's ~one-in-six risk of Trump winning, and the fact that polls have tightened a bit this week, and high numbers of undecided voters, and the spectre of voter complacency and voter intimidation and internet outages and and and, I am finding it so hard to keep my JCPL from flashing red all the bloody time.
Yes, I know all the other prognosticators put HRC at 90% or better. I know he'd have to take Pennsylvania or Wisconsin or something else very unlikely. I know his ground game is crap. But I can't calm down. Not at all.
I hate this election and I hate what Trump has done to America and selfishly I hate what he's done to my mental health. I can't wait to actually get a night's sleep on November 8. (Well, on the 9th, more likely.)
Thirteen more days.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Yes, I know all the other prognosticators put HRC at 90% or better. I know he'd have to take Pennsylvania or Wisconsin or something else very unlikely. I know his ground game is crap. But I can't calm down. Not at all.
I hate this election and I hate what Trump has done to America and selfishly I hate what he's done to my mental health. I can't wait to actually get a night's sleep on November 8. (Well, on the 9th, more likely.)
Thirteen more days.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Now Morning Joe is also trying to get a Facebook Live thing going? (twitter)
That's kinda weird, no?
posted by sallybrown at 6:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's kinda weird, no?
posted by sallybrown at 6:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Don't you want to learn more about Ann Kittenplan?
This year? No: I fear that the darkest plan for an kitten involves a podium, a backdrop of flags, and a mallet. I just can't.
I don't even like cats; I am a dog person.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This year? No: I fear that the darkest plan for an kitten involves a podium, a backdrop of flags, and a mallet. I just can't.
I don't even like cats; I am a dog person.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
You people know way too much about the abomination that is Morning Joe. Please, for your own good, put that attention elsewhere, anywhere would be fine. Just not cable opinion shows.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 6:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Quick, someone who can Photoshop things: Kittens Against Trump. Make it meme like crazy.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Goddamnit. I just found out this morning that my uncle took my 94-year-old Grandma in Ohio (a lifelong League of Women's Voters activist and leader, one of the foundations of my understanding of civic engagement) to vote yesterday, and found out that she was among those purged from the rolls. Never notified, and now it's past registration deadline.
It breaks my heart that this fucking asshole has denied her opportunity to vote for the first woman for preseident. She didn't vote in 2012 because she'd had a stroke.
I'm sitting here at my desk at work, trying to pretend my eyes aren't leaking. I am so full of rage right now.
posted by rp at 6:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [119 favorites]
It breaks my heart that this fucking asshole has denied her opportunity to vote for the first woman for preseident. She didn't vote in 2012 because she'd had a stroke.
I'm sitting here at my desk at work, trying to pretend my eyes aren't leaking. I am so full of rage right now.
posted by rp at 6:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [119 favorites]
Let's go back to talking about Scott Adams
Worst REM lyric ever.
posted by PlusDistance at 6:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Worst REM lyric ever.
posted by PlusDistance at 6:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
and found out that she was among those purged from the rolls. Never notified, and now it's past registration deadline.
This sounds like the reason they have affidavit ballots. Time to google the state election law and/or call the election board. This Disenfranchisement cannot stand.
posted by mikelieman at 6:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [76 favorites]
This sounds like the reason they have affidavit ballots. Time to google the state election law and/or call the election board. This Disenfranchisement cannot stand.
posted by mikelieman at 6:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [76 favorites]
Hey everybody (who missed dances_with_sneetches' heads-up), guess whose birthday is today?
Hillary's (69) and mine (55)! I'm goin' out for breakfast with my first-ever senior discount. Suck it, losers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [66 favorites]
Hillary's (69) and mine (55)! I'm goin' out for breakfast with my first-ever senior discount. Suck it, losers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [66 favorites]
What is a provisional ballot?
A provisional ballot is used to record a vote if a voter's eligibility is in question and the voter would otherwise not be permitted to vote at his or her polling place. The content of a provisional ballot is no different from a regular ballot, but it is cast "provisionally" until election officials can verify the voter's eligibility to vote in the particular precinct at that election.
There are several scenarios in which a voter may cast a provisional ballot. A provisional ballot may be used on Election Day if a voter's eligibility is in question, or before (or on) Election Day if a voter has recently changed his or her address and did not update his or her voter registration.
posted by mikelieman at 6:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
A provisional ballot is used to record a vote if a voter's eligibility is in question and the voter would otherwise not be permitted to vote at his or her polling place. The content of a provisional ballot is no different from a regular ballot, but it is cast "provisionally" until election officials can verify the voter's eligibility to vote in the particular precinct at that election.
There are several scenarios in which a voter may cast a provisional ballot. A provisional ballot may be used on Election Day if a voter's eligibility is in question, or before (or on) Election Day if a voter has recently changed his or her address and did not update his or her voter registration.
posted by mikelieman at 6:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Reaching back upthread:
If Trump is going to attached to an Internet meme I'm thinking Trump Goatse would be more appropriate.
NO
JUST NO
Wow. He [Newt Gingrich]. Comes off as a petulant turd.
...You're just noticing this about him now? He's always been like that. In the 90's, one of my old boyfriends and I agreed to use "Gingrich" as our "safeword" in bed, because there is nothing remotely appealing about the guy.
On early voting:
I am insanely jealous of all of those who have already been able to vote. New York State doesn't have early voting and so I have to wait out this full two weeks.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:01 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
If Trump is going to attached to an Internet meme I'm thinking Trump Goatse would be more appropriate.
NO
JUST NO
Wow. He [Newt Gingrich]. Comes off as a petulant turd.
...You're just noticing this about him now? He's always been like that. In the 90's, one of my old boyfriends and I agreed to use "Gingrich" as our "safeword" in bed, because there is nothing remotely appealing about the guy.
On early voting:
I am insanely jealous of all of those who have already been able to vote. New York State doesn't have early voting and so I have to wait out this full two weeks.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:01 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Final information for Ohio Grandma: Call the Secretary of State's elections division at (877) SOS-OHIO (877-767-6446) x2
because as Secretary Jon Husted says, "all eligible Ohioans have equal access to one of the best elections systems in the country. Making it easy to vote"
posted by mikelieman at 7:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
because as Secretary Jon Husted says, "all eligible Ohioans have equal access to one of the best elections systems in the country. Making it easy to vote"
posted by mikelieman at 7:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
I'm sitting here at my desk at work, trying to pretend my eyes aren't leaking. I am so full of rage right now.
This practice was just rejected by the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and the district court approved a plan that would allow many purged voters to vote:
posted by sallybrown at 7:05 AM on October 26, 2016 [69 favorites]
This practice was just rejected by the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and the district court approved a plan that would allow many purged voters to vote:
Ohio voters who were improperly removed from the rolls after not casting a ballot for several years will be allowed to vote in the November general election.I don't know when your grandmother was purged, but there's a chance she could still cast a ballot.
A federal appellate court ruled last month that Ohio's practice of occasionally canceling voter registrations after six years of inactivity was illegal. A U.S. District Court decision issued Wednesday night mandates that voters purged since Jan. 1, 2011 be allowed to cast provisional ballots.
Ballots will count if the voter lives in the same county as they were registered in.
posted by sallybrown at 7:05 AM on October 26, 2016 [69 favorites]
Final information for Ohio Grandma: Call the Secretary of State's elections division at (877) SOS-OHIO (877-767-6446) x2 because as Secretary Jon Husted says, "all eligible Ohioans have equal access to one of the best elections systems in the country. Making it easy to vote"
mikelieman, thank you. Believe me we're on it. This bullshit shall not stand. Gram's the toughest person I know, this isn't gonna stop her.
posted by rp at 7:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [60 favorites]
mikelieman, thank you. Believe me we're on it. This bullshit shall not stand. Gram's the toughest person I know, this isn't gonna stop her.
posted by rp at 7:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [60 favorites]
I'll be curious to see what conservative women do with this. Where do they go from here, when they now know very clearly that they're not welcome in the Republican/right boyzone but don't feel ideologically comfortable elsewhere either? Do they just studiously forget again as soon as Trump is dealt with?
I would bet any amount of money that this will all go down the memory hole and they'll go back to pretending that there is no such thing as misogyny on November 9th. November 10th at the latest.
posted by winna at 7:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
I would bet any amount of money that this will all go down the memory hole and they'll go back to pretending that there is no such thing as misogyny on November 9th. November 10th at the latest.
posted by winna at 7:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
I hope, in the final moments of their lives, many years from now, the Donald Trumps and Jerry Falwell Jrs of the world understand how much pain they have created in the world--that with their last breaths, they see the enormity of humanity and understand that in the final accounting, their contribution to humankind has been a net negative, a legacy of sadness, pain, hurt, and hatred that will never be forgotten nor completely healed. And I hope in their final moments, they know true regret and know that it's too late, and they wish they had never been born.
They will not. A primary feature of the Trumps and Fallwells Junior of the world is that they lack the introspection--and compassion--necessary to understand (let alone regret) the suffering that is the consequence of their actions.
posted by dersins at 7:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
They will not. A primary feature of the Trumps and Fallwells Junior of the world is that they lack the introspection--and compassion--necessary to understand (let alone regret) the suffering that is the consequence of their actions.
posted by dersins at 7:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
The difference between electoral-vote.com's October 20th report (HRC 350 to his 170) and today's October 26th report (HRC 323 to his 215) is unsettling. I know and we all know the polls will tighten, but it's still troubling.
posted by cashman at 7:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
"I mean, you could compare Trump similarly to Mr Dryden in Jack Womack's Ambient novels, President Windrip in Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here ..."
Prexy in John Brunner's The Sheep Look Up ...
posted by kyrademon at 7:21 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Prexy in John Brunner's The Sheep Look Up ...
posted by kyrademon at 7:21 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Now would be a great time for HRC to do an ad featuring some people like rp's grandmother and showing all unfairly purged Ohioans how to get around this roadblock and cast their ballots. Reading that liked to killed me, rp: please, please keep us posted on your grandmother's progress.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
Last Sunday we arrived at church to find protesters on the sidewalk outside. They were protesting gay marriage. This was at a liberal, inclusive Episcopal church in RI. I feel like people feel comfortable crawling out of the woodwork due to Trump. And I fear they won't go away any time soon, even with (or because of) a Hillary victory.
I will say that our service was as lovely and loving as usual, maybe even more so.
posted by Biblio at 7:25 AM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
I will say that our service was as lovely and loving as usual, maybe even more so.
posted by Biblio at 7:25 AM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
Prexy in John Brunner's The Sheep Look Up
Nah, Brunner *must* have been thinking of Ronnie Reagan. Prexy's vocal cadences are all his.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nah, Brunner *must* have been thinking of Ronnie Reagan. Prexy's vocal cadences are all his.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
This one is worth clicking through to Twitter even for the Twitterhaters among us:
photo by Doug Mills: .@HillaryClinton reacts after being asked how she was feeling on her 69th Birthday as she departs Miami for Palm Beach.
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [36 favorites]
photo by Doug Mills: .@HillaryClinton reacts after being asked how she was feeling on her 69th Birthday as she departs Miami for Palm Beach.
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [36 favorites]
Hahaaaa, and the Hillary app is all decked out for her birthday today. Adorable.
(I'll admit going there just to pet the doggie in order to de-stress from the latest Florida polls. I really need to stay off the news for the next few weeks for my own sanity.)
posted by Salieri at 7:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
(I'll admit going there just to pet the doggie in order to de-stress from the latest Florida polls. I really need to stay off the news for the next few weeks for my own sanity.)
posted by Salieri at 7:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Last Sunday we arrived at church to find protesters on the sidewalk outside. They were protesting gay marriage. This was at a liberal, inclusive Episcopal church in RI. I feel like people feel comfortable crawling out of the woodwork due to Trump.
In the past several weeks, there have been a few reported instances (and who knows how many unreported ones?) of racist intimidation on my campus -- anonymous hate messages and . . . objects left outside dorm rooms and the like. This is not something that never happened here in the past, but it does feel like Trump has emboldened the woodwork-crawlers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:35 AM on October 26, 2016
In the past several weeks, there have been a few reported instances (and who knows how many unreported ones?) of racist intimidation on my campus -- anonymous hate messages and . . . objects left outside dorm rooms and the like. This is not something that never happened here in the past, but it does feel like Trump has emboldened the woodwork-crawlers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:35 AM on October 26, 2016
Think Twice Before You Take A Selfie With Your Ballot This November:
Now even Justin Timberlake has been forced to deal with the question of whether a ballot selfie is legal.posted by palindromic at 7:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Timberlake flew from California to Tennessee to vote early this week, but his posting of an image of himself at the voting booth on Instagram on Monday drew questions about whether he was breaking the law.
A Tennessee law that took effect earlier this year bars voters from taking photographs or video while they're inside a polling location.
While secrecy in the voting booth has become a thing of the past for those ready to share their views and daily lives on social media, laws nationwide are mixed on whether voters are allowed to take pictures of themselves voting and their ballots.
Federal courts have struck down bans in New Hampshire and Indiana, and on Monday, a judge in Michigan blocked enforcement of a ban on ballot selfies, saying it violates free speech.
Tennessee Secretary of State spokesman Adam Ghassemi said officials are "thrilled Justin can't stop the feeling" but reminded voters to use their phones inside polling locations only to help them vote.
Model Paula Patrice: Trump Shoved His Tongue Down My Throat
“The Donald Trumps were a dime a dozen,” Paula said. “It’s terrible, but at the same time, in those days, that was the way these guys behaved. Sure, I went there hoping for a nice gentlemanly night out, but I didn’t feel violated by his forwardness.posted by sallybrown at 7:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
“I mean, it wasn’t even a move. It was, at the most, novice level. The guy had no moves. Maybe he got better moves?” . . .
In the years following her brushes with Trump and other rich men like him, Paula actually became a model, gracing the cover of Italian Vogue and staying out of the trouble so many aspiring models fell into. “I got to a legit place after jumping through a bunch of rich men hoops,” she said.
As for Trump, the worst she’ll say about the man who asked her on a date and then shoved his tongue down her throat is what she told her mom after her trip to Trump Tower 25 years ago.
“I told her, ‘He’s a jerk.’ And to use that language with my mother was strong. He was just so handsy.
“During that time there were so many men like Trump. If they could get it, they were going to, if they were allowed to behave a certain way, they would. Because they cannot police themselves. It’s one thing when it’s Trump the millionaire from New York City; it’s another when you’re talking about the presidency of the United States.”
Last Sunday we arrived at church to find protesters on the sidewalk outside. They were protesting gay marriage. This was at a liberal, inclusive Episcopal church in RI.
Ugh, if that happens next Sunday I hope you hold a spontaneous same-sex kiss-in on the church steps. The choir would probably help with background music; I suggest #576 - "God is love and where true love is: God himself is there."
I know spontaneity is kind of alien to the Anglican tradition, but exceptions can always be made.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Ugh, if that happens next Sunday I hope you hold a spontaneous same-sex kiss-in on the church steps. The choir would probably help with background music; I suggest #576 - "God is love and where true love is: God himself is there."
I know spontaneity is kind of alien to the Anglican tradition, but exceptions can always be made.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm goin' out for breakfast with my first-ever senior discount.
I signed up for AARP on my 50th birthday and spelled my name wrong on the application. First senior moment!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
Being an atheist is hard on a bitter cynic like me. I know that the Trumps and Shlaflys will generally face no comeuppance in this world or the next. They die in ease and comfort after a comfortable life of self-righteousness and there's never a single moment of realization of the harm they have caused. It makes me want to believe in hell.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
Libertarian VP Candidate Admits Defeat, Tells Voters To Pick Clinton Over Trump:
Accepting that his presidential bid will fail, Libertarian vice presidential candidate Bill Weld on Tuesday obliquely urged voters to vote for Hillary Clinton.posted by palindromic at 7:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [56 favorites]
In a Tuesday statement addressed to voters torn between Donald Trump and Clinton, the former Massachusetts governor told Republicans not to vote for the GOP nominee out of “fear for our country.”
“After careful observation and reflection, I have come to believe that Donald Trump, if elected President of the United States, would not be able to stand up to this pressure and this criticism without becoming unhinged and unable to perform competently the duties of his office,” the former Massachusetts governor said in a statement.
In which Donald Trump once demanded, "We must have universal healthcare" [real]
Slate: Enter the Donald, Take Two:
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Slate: Enter the Donald, Take Two:
For a few months, Trump hashed out a policy agenda. It wasn't much, but it was enough to fill a quickie book: The America We Deserve, published in January 2000. The Trump of 11 years ago sounds a lot like the Trump who has taken over cable TV and the Drudge Report top banner these past few weeks: He's against immigration amnesty. He's worried about terrorism. He's rending his hair over America's economic decline. Oh, and there were a few other things.
"We must have universal healthcare," wrote Trump. "I'm a conservative on most issues but a liberal on this one. We should not hear so many stories of families ruined by healthcare expenses."
The goal of health care reform, wrote Trump, should be a system that looks a lot like Canada. "Doctors might be paid less than they are now, as is the case in Canada, but they would be able to treat more patients because of the reduction in their paperwork," he writes.
"The Canadian plan also helps Canadians live longer and healthier than Americans. There are fewer medical lawsuits, less loss of labor to sickness, and lower costs to companies paying for the medical care of their employees. If the program were in place in Massachusetts in 1999 it would have reduced administrative costs by $2.5 million. We need, as a nation, to reexamine the single-payer plan, as many individual states are doing."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
melissasaurus: donaldtrump.gop "Let this stand as a testament to Republicans putting power and party over principle and country, and may they never live it down."
Wait, I thought dot GOP domains were supposed to be managed by the GOP, how did that one slip by? Good on 'em! (Creepiest part of the join.gop site? Their front page slogan is "your street address in the republican neighborhood," with republican in red. Is that a dogwhistle for "you're safe in the right neighborhood"? Silliest part of the join.gop site? Referring to a Top Level Domain (TLD), such as .com or .org as a "web ending")
chris24: @seanhannity: Journalism is DEAD IN AMERICA! [image]
Yes, it is! You copied someone's photoshop work as your own with attribution of the original source or subsequent "artist." Or was he talking about his own racist invitation to the Obamas to leave the country, for good? It's hard to keep details straight as to what is killing journalism now.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Wait, I thought dot GOP domains were supposed to be managed by the GOP, how did that one slip by? Good on 'em! (Creepiest part of the join.gop site? Their front page slogan is "your street address in the republican neighborhood," with republican in red. Is that a dogwhistle for "you're safe in the right neighborhood"? Silliest part of the join.gop site? Referring to a Top Level Domain (TLD), such as .com or .org as a "web ending")
chris24: @seanhannity: Journalism is DEAD IN AMERICA! [image]
Yes, it is! You copied someone's photoshop work as your own with attribution of the original source or subsequent "artist." Or was he talking about his own racist invitation to the Obamas to leave the country, for good? It's hard to keep details straight as to what is killing journalism now.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Or was he talking about his own racist invitation to the Obamas to leave the country, for good? It's hard to keep details straight as to what is killing journalism now.
Don't be silly. Hannity isn't a journalist.
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Don't be silly. Hannity isn't a journalist.
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
He's always been like that. In the 90's, one of my old boyfriends and I agreed to use "Gingrich" as our "safeword" in bed, because there is nothing remotely appealing about the guy.
Because it still makes me chuckle after all these years, Scalzi's informal poll re: Newt, hunting giraffes, and wallowing in the mud like a little piggie:
Because it still makes me chuckle after all these years, Scalzi's informal poll re: Newt, hunting giraffes, and wallowing in the mud like a little piggie:
"If Newt Gingrich were to hunt a giraffe, would he use tools, orAlso Garrison Keillor's doggerel from the same period:
simply his own mouth?"
"Newt, Newt, a strange young coot, with a gleam in his eye and a smirk on his snoot, and now he's the Speaker, and boy can he speak, like a big balloon with a very slow leak.''posted by octobersurprise at 7:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
"like a big _____ balloon"
ahhh does not quite scan
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:08 AM on October 26, 2016
ahhh does not quite scan
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:08 AM on October 26, 2016
"Big ol' balloon," surely.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Can someone repost or memail me the link outlining why elected Democrats perform more liberally in office when they have a larger share of the vote? My Ctrl+F fu is failing me and I'd like to encourage some friends to vote early in Texas.
posted by avalonian at 8:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by avalonian at 8:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Newt Gingrich - "Republicans are actually out-voting Democrats in Florida, they’re out-voting Democrats in Pennsylvania."
Pennsylvania does not have early voting.
posted by bluecore at 8:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [50 favorites]
Pennsylvania does not have early voting.
posted by bluecore at 8:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [50 favorites]
Jon Favreau: Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough
For eight years, nearly every decision made by Republican lawmakers has been motivated by a paralyzing fear of a base whose news diet has become completely detached from reality.
A Hillary Clinton victory will save us from the existential threat of a Donald Trump presidency. But let’s not kid ourselves: there is almost no evidence to suggest that four more years of a Republican Congress will result in any kind of productivity, no matter how hard Hillary tries to reach across the aisle, or how much Republican leaders want to work with her. Radicals rule the GOP, and an embarrassing Trump defeat will only embolden them to push for more shutdowns, more default threats, more repeal votes, more obstruction, more investigations, and probably impeachment. The sane Republicans who oppose these tactics will be threatened with primary challengers in 2018 (a year when the map heavily favors the GOP anyway) — and if the past is any guide, most of them will simply give in.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
For eight years, nearly every decision made by Republican lawmakers has been motivated by a paralyzing fear of a base whose news diet has become completely detached from reality.
A Hillary Clinton victory will save us from the existential threat of a Donald Trump presidency. But let’s not kid ourselves: there is almost no evidence to suggest that four more years of a Republican Congress will result in any kind of productivity, no matter how hard Hillary tries to reach across the aisle, or how much Republican leaders want to work with her. Radicals rule the GOP, and an embarrassing Trump defeat will only embolden them to push for more shutdowns, more default threats, more repeal votes, more obstruction, more investigations, and probably impeachment. The sane Republicans who oppose these tactics will be threatened with primary challengers in 2018 (a year when the map heavily favors the GOP anyway) — and if the past is any guide, most of them will simply give in.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
avalonian, is this the one you're thinking of?
Why turnout matters, even in true-blue districts: Large margins of victory make politicians more responsive to progressive goals
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Why turnout matters, even in true-blue districts: Large margins of victory make politicians more responsive to progressive goals
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Newt Gingrich - "Republicans are actually out-voting Democrats in Florida, they’re out-voting Democrats in Pennsylvania."
Pennsylvania does not have early voting.
Hey, on the other hand, maybe we found the voter fraud everyone's been looking for!
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
Pennsylvania does not have early voting.
Hey, on the other hand, maybe we found the voter fraud everyone's been looking for!
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
Newt Gingrich - "Republicans are actually out-voting Democrats in Florida, they’re out-voting Democrats in Pennsylvania."
Not only that, but they're not out-voting Dems in Florida.
Maybe the PA reference is to new voter registrations?
But the polls Newt. The Polls? Which ones? All of them.
posted by dis_integration at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not only that, but they're not out-voting Dems in Florida.
Maybe the PA reference is to new voter registrations?
But the polls Newt. The Polls? Which ones? All of them.
posted by dis_integration at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ugh. Reading the transcripts of Kellyanne Conway on the today show. I'm glad it's a transcript because I'm not sure I could sit through watching her with her shit eating grin.
posted by Talez at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's Hannity's own line, actually: @seanhannity 'I'm not a journalist jackass. I'm a talk host.' (lack of punctuation in the original). It's his go-to excuse for not being, ahem, fair and balanced.
Admitting it is the first step I guess.
posted by Talez at 8:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Admitting it is the first step I guess.
posted by Talez at 8:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
@HillaryClinton reacts after being asked how she was feeling on her 69th Birthday as she departs Miami for Palm Beach.
Hey, cool! This pantsuit has pockets!
posted by bardophile at 8:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hey, cool! This pantsuit has pockets!
posted by bardophile at 8:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yep! Thanks rabbitrabbit!
posted by avalonian at 8:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by avalonian at 8:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hillary Clinton interview on Power 105.1's Breakfast Club with DJ Envy, Charlemagne Tha God, and Angela Yee. Then Stevie Wonder sings Happy Birthday.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
Ugh. Bloomberg poll has Trump up +2 in Florida. All the polls are within MOE tied right now. It's a nailbiter and going to come right down to the wire.
I can't believe this campaign is a literal dumpster fire, no advertising, no ground game, no nothing and Trump still has paths to 270. This should have been a fucking Goldwater election.
posted by Talez at 8:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
I can't believe this campaign is a literal dumpster fire, no advertising, no ground game, no nothing and Trump still has paths to 270. This should have been a fucking Goldwater election.
posted by Talez at 8:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
I'm really worried because normalization of deviance may turn 2018 and 2020 into complete shitshows. This election may have broken US politics permanently.
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
All the polls are within MOE tied right now. It's a nailbiter and going to come right down to the wire... Trump still has paths to 270
Where is he tied or within MOE to get to 270? He has to win PA to get there, plus others, where he's not close.
posted by chris24 at 8:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Where is he tied or within MOE to get to 270? He has to win PA to get there, plus others, where he's not close.
posted by chris24 at 8:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm really worried because normalization of deviance may turn 2018 and 2020 into complete shitshows. This election may have broken US politics permanently.
Prediction--Sean Hannity will be the Republican nominee for president in 2020. You heard it here first.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Prediction--Sean Hannity will be the Republican nominee for president in 2020. You heard it here first.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
adamgreenfield: "Nah, Brunner *must* have been thinking of Ronnie Reagan. Prexy's vocal cadences are all his."
Maybe, but Reagan was still governor of California in 1972.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:37 AM on October 26, 2016
Maybe, but Reagan was still governor of California in 1972.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:37 AM on October 26, 2016
I'm really worried because normalization of deviance may turn 2018 and 2020 into complete shitshows. This election may have broken US politics permanently.
Well, this didn't happen in a vacuum. McConnell and his cronies in Congress have been setting the stage for this since Obama's first victory. And yet, Republicans still are not succeeding; demographic shifts, women turning away, and an overall rejection of white supremacy politics will continue to erode their base of support. 2018 will probably be a shitshow, but would have been without a Trump candidacy. While I think accelerationism is bullshit, Trump's candidacy may have been a bit of an accelerationist success for those of us who want to see white supremacy politics defeated. He said the loud parts quiet and the quiet parts loud, and managed to repel many voters who might have held their nose for a Cruz or a Rubio.
While Florida may be within the MOE, the election will not be. It's gonna be a landslide.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
Well, this didn't happen in a vacuum. McConnell and his cronies in Congress have been setting the stage for this since Obama's first victory. And yet, Republicans still are not succeeding; demographic shifts, women turning away, and an overall rejection of white supremacy politics will continue to erode their base of support. 2018 will probably be a shitshow, but would have been without a Trump candidacy. While I think accelerationism is bullshit, Trump's candidacy may have been a bit of an accelerationist success for those of us who want to see white supremacy politics defeated. He said the loud parts quiet and the quiet parts loud, and managed to repel many voters who might have held their nose for a Cruz or a Rubio.
While Florida may be within the MOE, the election will not be. It's gonna be a landslide.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
Annotated transcript of the Power 105.1 Breakfast Club interview.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:39 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:39 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Prediction--Sean Hannity will be the Republican nominee for president in 2020. You heard it here first.
Fantastic. Based on his drunk and/or unhinged tweeting and shows, he'll crack as much as Trump. Plus the years of shows will provide ample ammunition to wreck him with moderates.
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fantastic. Based on his drunk and/or unhinged tweeting and shows, he'll crack as much as Trump. Plus the years of shows will provide ample ammunition to wreck him with moderates.
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also Garrison Keillor's doggerel from the same period: "Newt, Newt, a strange young coot, with a gleam in his eye and a smirk on his snoot, and now he's the Speaker, and boy can he speak, like a big balloon with a very slow leak.''
From 1995:
Gingrich the Newt's a disgrace to the name
When true newts see him they feel so ashamed
He's the black sheep of the newt family
The one rotten fruit on the newt family tree
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
From 1995:
Gingrich the Newt's a disgrace to the name
When true newts see him they feel so ashamed
He's the black sheep of the newt family
The one rotten fruit on the newt family tree
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Ugh. Bloomberg poll has Trump up +2 in Florida. All the polls are within MOE tied right now. It's a nailbiter and going to come right down to the wire.
Stop freaking out over individual polls.
Stop freaking out over individual polls.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [35 favorites]
video of the "Gingrich the Newt" song
posted by PlusDistance at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by PlusDistance at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
> This election may have broken US politics permanently.
Then again, maybe it hasn't? I submit that there's not actually much to be gained by spending the last two weeks of the 2016 election sitting around trying to scare the shit out of ourselves about the 2018 and 2020 elections.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
Then again, maybe it hasn't? I submit that there's not actually much to be gained by spending the last two weeks of the 2016 election sitting around trying to scare the shit out of ourselves about the 2018 and 2020 elections.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
Yeah, I don't think women and minority voters are just gonna sit back after this election and let the nutters put things back the way they were. The white power volk will still be around in future years, but I don't think people are just gonna pat 'em on the head and tell 'em what rascally boys they are any more.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Talez: I can't believe this campaign is a literal dumpster fire, no advertising, no ground game, no nothing and Trump still has paths to 270. This should have been a fucking Goldwater election.
Even in soothing, blue New Mexico, we have devout Catholics who are voting only for the anti-choice candidate. "I'd vote for the one that gives me the rights to be born, so I'd vote for Trump. I don't admire the man one bit, and there are lot of things I disagree with and I don't think we'd get along, but if I was unborn, I'd vote for him." (The local NPR affiliate has been playing a soundbite of some dude, possibly this guy, saying "I think there are a lot of dangerous places in America, but none more dangerous than a mother's womb." Every time, I shout at the radio "SO WHAT'S YOUR STANCE ON BIRTH CONTROL? OR SUPPORT FOR EXPECTING MOTHERS AND NEWBORNS?" I still haven't gotten a reply.)
And then there are people who don't agree with the separation of church and state, especially when it comes to reproductive rights (NPR transcript, here's the polished article on a few Arizona voters).
These are just two of many stories about people who have beliefs that are bolstered by Donald, even if they take issue with other things he has said or done.
FFS people, single issue voting is dumb. Think of the net impacts that a president will make for the country, hell, the whole world. Great, your one issue is supported directly, but If You Are Truly Pro-Life, You’d Vote Democrat (in short: policies from Dems actually address the root cause of unwanted pregnancies, while the GOP just punishes women in a tough situation).
posted by filthy light thief at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Even in soothing, blue New Mexico, we have devout Catholics who are voting only for the anti-choice candidate. "I'd vote for the one that gives me the rights to be born, so I'd vote for Trump. I don't admire the man one bit, and there are lot of things I disagree with and I don't think we'd get along, but if I was unborn, I'd vote for him." (The local NPR affiliate has been playing a soundbite of some dude, possibly this guy, saying "I think there are a lot of dangerous places in America, but none more dangerous than a mother's womb." Every time, I shout at the radio "SO WHAT'S YOUR STANCE ON BIRTH CONTROL? OR SUPPORT FOR EXPECTING MOTHERS AND NEWBORNS?" I still haven't gotten a reply.)
And then there are people who don't agree with the separation of church and state, especially when it comes to reproductive rights (NPR transcript, here's the polished article on a few Arizona voters).
These are just two of many stories about people who have beliefs that are bolstered by Donald, even if they take issue with other things he has said or done.
FFS people, single issue voting is dumb. Think of the net impacts that a president will make for the country, hell, the whole world. Great, your one issue is supported directly, but If You Are Truly Pro-Life, You’d Vote Democrat (in short: policies from Dems actually address the root cause of unwanted pregnancies, while the GOP just punishes women in a tough situation).
posted by filthy light thief at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Inside Trump’s Runner-Up White House: A Glitzy, Empty Hotel on Pennsylvania Ave — Olivia Nuzzi.
Nuzzi also tweeted a picture of the hotel bar's cocktail menu. One of the drinks is called a "Benjamin," made with rye, potato?, vodka, oysters, and caviar. Another is the "Rocking Chair," with black rum, 10 year-old Laphroaig, lime juice, and honey. They sound disgusting. Waste of perfectly good caviar and Laphroaig if you ask me.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Nuzzi also tweeted a picture of the hotel bar's cocktail menu. One of the drinks is called a "Benjamin," made with rye, potato?, vodka, oysters, and caviar. Another is the "Rocking Chair," with black rum, 10 year-old Laphroaig, lime juice, and honey. They sound disgusting. Waste of perfectly good caviar and Laphroaig if you ask me.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Twenty-some years ago, when I had a comedy group, we did a skit which began with a song to the tune of "Pinky and the Brain." (Newt being The Brain)
It's Quayle and the Newt,
Quayle and the Newt.
One's a moron,
The other 's astute.
So, whenever I see Gingrich, I think: Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's Quayle and the Newt,
Quayle and the Newt.
One's a moron,
The other 's astute.
So, whenever I see Gingrich, I think: Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Where is he tied or within MOE to get to 270? He has to win PA to get there, plus others, where he's not close.
NV could still go either way. The election will tighten over the next couple of weeks. PA is a worry because it is tightening, it will continue to tighten, and PA has no early voting so the goldfish-like memory of the electorate is my biggest worry right now.
posted by Talez at 8:49 AM on October 26, 2016
NV could still go either way. The election will tighten over the next couple of weeks. PA is a worry because it is tightening, it will continue to tighten, and PA has no early voting so the goldfish-like memory of the electorate is my biggest worry right now.
posted by Talez at 8:49 AM on October 26, 2016
Most recent 538 model shows Egg with a 20% chance, Hillary with a 9% chance to take Utah. Net win probability for Trump down to just over 70%.
Egg McMentum!
posted by Mayor West at 8:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Egg McMentum!
posted by Mayor West at 8:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hillary Clinton interview on Power 105.1's Breakfast Club with DJ Envy, Charlemagne Tha God, and Angela Yee. Then Stevie Wonder sings Happy Birthday.
It's very encouraging to hear her describe gun violence as a "public health epidemic." That wording in particular makes me think maybe she'll push for changes to allow executive agencies study gun violence using federal funds.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:51 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's very encouraging to hear her describe gun violence as a "public health epidemic." That wording in particular makes me think maybe she'll push for changes to allow executive agencies study gun violence using federal funds.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:51 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Trump Star on Hollywood Walk of Fame Is Smashed
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [34 favorites]
A man dressed as a construction worker took a sledgehammer and a pickax to Donald J. Trump’s star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame early Wednesday morning, smashing the sidewalk symbol and attempting to remove it, according to a witness and the police. [...]Couldn't have happened to a nicer chap. Before and after pics included.
The man “suddenly picked up the sledgehammer and started smashing the bejeezus out of the Trump star,” Mr. Patten said. “Then he took the pickax and was trying to pry one of the points of the star.”
“Shrapnel was flying everywhere,” Mr. Patten added.
He said that about there were about eight or nine people on the street at the time, and that the man’s attempt went on for approximately five minutes, after which he “made a quick retreat.”
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [34 favorites]
> "Most recent 538 model shows Egg with a 20% chance, Hillary with a 9% chance to take Utah. Net win probability for Trump down to just over 70%. Egg McMentum!"
They've also stated that there are reasons that their model may be seriously underestimating his chances there.
posted by kyrademon at 8:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
They've also stated that there are reasons that their model may be seriously underestimating his chances there.
posted by kyrademon at 8:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then again, maybe it hasn't? I submit that there's not actually much to be gained by spending the last two weeks of the 2016 election sitting around trying to scare the shit out of ourselves about the 2018 and 2020 elections.
As sweet ambrosia is to the exalted ones atop Olympus, such are the honey-glazed morsels of panic to the hungry souls of MetaFilter in the dying days of an electoral cycle.
There is no calming the JCPL, there is only enduring it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
As sweet ambrosia is to the exalted ones atop Olympus, such are the honey-glazed morsels of panic to the hungry souls of MetaFilter in the dying days of an electoral cycle.
There is no calming the JCPL, there is only enduring it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Today, Trump at his Washington hotel ribbon-cutting event:
“My theme today is five words: under budget and ahead of schedule.”
Six, Donald, six.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [33 favorites]
“My theme today is five words: under budget and ahead of schedule.”
Six, Donald, six.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [33 favorites]
I can't believe this campaign is a literal dumpster fire, no advertising, no ground game, no nothing and Trump still has paths to 270.
Yeah, it's absolutely fury-causing to look at the 1980 electoral map, where Carter only got 49 electoral votes and compare it to how many Trump will get at the low-water mark. No matter how generous you are about calling Carter a flawed candidate, for Trump to out-draw him is an insult to basic human decency.
posted by phearlez at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
Yeah, it's absolutely fury-causing to look at the 1980 electoral map, where Carter only got 49 electoral votes and compare it to how many Trump will get at the low-water mark. No matter how generous you are about calling Carter a flawed candidate, for Trump to out-draw him is an insult to basic human decency.
posted by phearlez at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
photo by Doug Mills: .@HillaryClinton reacts after being asked how she was feeling on her 69th Birthday as she departs Miami for Palm Beach.
MY GOD WHY IS NOBODY RUNNING TO CATCH HER??
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
MY GOD WHY IS NOBODY RUNNING TO CATCH HER??
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Honestly surprised that Trump sprung for the $30k cost of a star. Then I figure either none of his money went to it, or the ONE thing he is ok paying for is ego stroking.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokedown at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Like.
POTUS is the apex of the US political establishment. Hillary Clinton is an apex establishment Democrat. The Washington Post is one of the establishment newspapers. And now, we have an interview with Hillary Clinton during her historic run for POTUS, transcripted on the Washington Post
in the style of Rap fucking Genius
where one interviewer appears in the transcript as Charlamagne Tha God
and the other interviewer broke into the industry, according to Wikipedia, by interning for the Wu-Tang Clan
2016, everyone. I'm so old.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
POTUS is the apex of the US political establishment. Hillary Clinton is an apex establishment Democrat. The Washington Post is one of the establishment newspapers. And now, we have an interview with Hillary Clinton during her historic run for POTUS, transcripted on the Washington Post
in the style of Rap fucking Genius
where one interviewer appears in the transcript as Charlamagne Tha God
and the other interviewer broke into the industry, according to Wikipedia, by interning for the Wu-Tang Clan
2016, everyone. I'm so old.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
One of the drinks is called a "Benjamin," made with rye, potato?, vodka, oysters, and caviar.
Agh, that's not a drink, that's an alcoholic oyster shooter. Aaaand I feel ill now.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Agh, that's not a drink, that's an alcoholic oyster shooter. Aaaand I feel ill now.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump shouting out Newt's interview in his hotel advert disguised as a campaign stop.
Why do these people keep bringing up utterly embarrassing things? Like when something hits the news cycle that is fucked up you keep your stupid mouth shut.
posted by Talez at 8:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Why do these people keep bringing up utterly embarrassing things? Like when something hits the news cycle that is fucked up you keep your stupid mouth shut.
posted by Talez at 8:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Five words: "Under Budget and Ahead of Schedule"
Uhhhhhhhhhhh...................... OK............... If you say so, Donald...............
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on October 26, 2016
Uhhhhhhhhhhh...................... OK............... If you say so, Donald...............
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on October 26, 2016
Oh, don't y'all be limitin' Egg's momentum to just Utah. No siree. Egg's been campaigning in Idaho and Wyoming the past few days. Before you know it, he'll be nationwide and it'll be breakfast in America again!
(That was Reagan's slogan right? I seem to remember it being something like that anyway...)
posted by gusottertrout at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
(That was Reagan's slogan right? I seem to remember it being something like that anyway...)
posted by gusottertrout at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
> There is no calming the JCPL, there is only enduring it.
[context: after about 4 pp. of listing things one might learn from hanging out in and around a substance-recovery halfway house]
. . . That 99% of compulsive thinkers' thinking is about themselves; that 99% of this self-directed thinking consists of imagining and then getting ready for things that are going to happen to them; and then, weirdly, that if they stop to think about it, that 100% of the things they spend 99% of their time and energy imagining and trying to prepare for all the contingencies and consequences of are never good. Then that this connects interestingly with the early-sobriety urge to pray for the literal loss of one's mind. In short that 99% of the head's thinking activity consists of trying to scare the everliving shit out of itself.
-David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest, pp. 203-04
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
[context: after about 4 pp. of listing things one might learn from hanging out in and around a substance-recovery halfway house]
. . . That 99% of compulsive thinkers' thinking is about themselves; that 99% of this self-directed thinking consists of imagining and then getting ready for things that are going to happen to them; and then, weirdly, that if they stop to think about it, that 100% of the things they spend 99% of their time and energy imagining and trying to prepare for all the contingencies and consequences of are never good. Then that this connects interestingly with the early-sobriety urge to pray for the literal loss of one's mind. In short that 99% of the head's thinking activity consists of trying to scare the everliving shit out of itself.
-David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest, pp. 203-04
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
Honestly surprised that Trump sprung for the $30k cost of a star. Then I figure either none of his money went to it, or the ONE thing he is ok paying for is ego stroking.
Does anyone think Trump didn't use Foundation money to pay for it?
posted by phearlez at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
Does anyone think Trump didn't use Foundation money to pay for it?
posted by phearlez at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
Yeah, it's absolutely fury-causing to look at the 1980 electoral map, where Carter only got 49 electoral votes and compare it to how many Trump will get at the low-water mark. No matter how generous you are about calling Carter a flawed candidate, for Trump to out-draw him is an insult to basic human decency.
Carter made the cardinal mistake of telling the American people that hard work and discomfort on their part would be required to fix the underlying problem. Reagan told Americans they deserved the best not 65 degree thermostats.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
Carter made the cardinal mistake of telling the American people that hard work and discomfort on their part would be required to fix the underlying problem. Reagan told Americans they deserved the best not 65 degree thermostats.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
"I'm really worried because normalization of deviance may turn 2018 and 2020 into complete shitshows. This election may have broken US politics permanently."
I think right-wing dog whistles may have suffered collateral damage, and if a smoother, emotionally intelligent demagogue tries to use them in 2020, they'll fall unheard on eardrums blown to shit by Trump. Also, thanks to the Trump brand, it will no longer be necessary to Godwin ourselves to point out an ascendant, evil strong-man. So there's that, maybe.
posted by klarck at 9:07 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think right-wing dog whistles may have suffered collateral damage, and if a smoother, emotionally intelligent demagogue tries to use them in 2020, they'll fall unheard on eardrums blown to shit by Trump. Also, thanks to the Trump brand, it will no longer be necessary to Godwin ourselves to point out an ascendant, evil strong-man. So there's that, maybe.
posted by klarck at 9:07 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
That would be more consolation if the 1984 map wasn't similarly awful, Talez
posted by phearlez at 9:08 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by phearlez at 9:08 AM on October 26, 2016
Judging by last night's interview (what a sick burn Kelly used to shut down Newt at the end) Newt, Guiliani, Ailes and Trump would probably be happiest in Topeka, the "Downunder" city of "A Boy and His Dog."
posted by My Dad at 9:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 9:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's very encouraging to hear her describe gun violence as a "public health epidemic." That wording in particular makes me think maybe she'll push for changes to allow executive agencies study gun violence using federal funds.
And when House Republicans block it -- and they will -- Clinton and her surrogates should go on TV and keep repeating "Republicans blocked this study because they know the data will suggest policies they don't want. That's no way to govern."
posted by Gelatin at 9:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
And when House Republicans block it -- and they will -- Clinton and her surrogates should go on TV and keep repeating "Republicans blocked this study because they know the data will suggest policies they don't want. That's no way to govern."
posted by Gelatin at 9:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
That would be more consolation if the 1984 map wasn't similarly awful, Talez
There's a reason Reagan's "Morning in America" only has one black person.
posted by Talez at 9:11 AM on October 26, 2016
There's a reason Reagan's "Morning in America" only has one black person.
posted by Talez at 9:11 AM on October 26, 2016
There is no calming the JCPL, there is only enduring it.
Listen, and understand! That JCPL is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until the election is over!
posted by Chrysostom at 9:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
Listen, and understand! That JCPL is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until the election is over!
posted by Chrysostom at 9:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
it'll be breakfast in America again!
No, that's Supertrump.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
No, that's Supertrump.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
Honestly surprised that Trump sprung for the $30k cost of a star. Then I figure either none of his money went to it, or the ONE thing he is ok paying for is ego stroking.
I believe, per Fahrenthold, that a fan paid the $30k.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Under Budget and Ahead of Schedule"
Good, fast, cheap: pick two.
posted by Gelatin at 9:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Good, fast, cheap: pick two.
posted by Gelatin at 9:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Will Ferrell dusts off his Dubya impression to trash Trump
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I believe, per Fahrenthold, that a fan paid the $30k.
If by "fan" you mean "someone who probably owed Donald Trump 30-large for services rendered."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
If by "fan" you mean "someone who probably owed Donald Trump 30-large for services rendered."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
No, that's Supertrump.
That's Brexit in America.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:22 AM on October 26, 2016 [72 favorites]
That's Brexit in America.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:22 AM on October 26, 2016 [72 favorites]
That's Brexit in America.
*stares intently at octobersurprise*
*starts a slow clap*
posted by entropicamericana at 9:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
*stares intently at octobersurprise*
*starts a slow clap*
posted by entropicamericana at 9:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
Is there a way to determine whether Trump paid for his application for his Hollywood star out of his charity?
Okay I found this:
Trump's star was set in place in January 2007.
(There are a couple of additional notes in this article which are interesting. Along with noting his feud with Rosie O'Donnell, there's this statement from Trump on his newborn son.
"He's strong, he's smart, he's tough, he's vicious, he's violent — all of the ingredients you need to be an entrepreneur, and most importantly, hopefully he's smart because smart is really the ingredient," Trump said.
Back to the star. This would make the application most likely 2006. Some articles cite that the fee was $30000 at the time. Exactly who the check would be made out to is a question. Perhaps to the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce Walk of Fame Selection Committee which is the deciding group.
I don't have time to follow this up right now, but is there a list of checks made out by the Trump Foundation for 2006?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Okay I found this:
Trump's star was set in place in January 2007.
(There are a couple of additional notes in this article which are interesting. Along with noting his feud with Rosie O'Donnell, there's this statement from Trump on his newborn son.
"He's strong, he's smart, he's tough, he's vicious, he's violent — all of the ingredients you need to be an entrepreneur, and most importantly, hopefully he's smart because smart is really the ingredient," Trump said.
Back to the star. This would make the application most likely 2006. Some articles cite that the fee was $30000 at the time. Exactly who the check would be made out to is a question. Perhaps to the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce Walk of Fame Selection Committee which is the deciding group.
I don't have time to follow this up right now, but is there a list of checks made out by the Trump Foundation for 2006?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Listen, and understand! That JCPL is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until the election is over!
Mine has been doing pretty good this past week. Had a few fluctuations here and there but they were easily controlled. I realized how precarious the control is when I read about the latest Florida poll. My intellect knows not freak out about individual polls but JCPL has trouble listening to that.
posted by Jalliah at 9:25 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mine has been doing pretty good this past week. Had a few fluctuations here and there but they were easily controlled. I realized how precarious the control is when I read about the latest Florida poll. My intellect knows not freak out about individual polls but JCPL has trouble listening to that.
posted by Jalliah at 9:25 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
“My theme today is five words: under budget and ahead of schedule.”
This sentence is overbudget
posted by Existential Dread at 9:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [41 favorites]
This sentence is overbudget
posted by Existential Dread at 9:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [41 favorites]
Just popped upstairs. The Warren/McGinty do seems like it's going to be a pretty small affair so I'll be able to slip in for my lunch hour. Looking forward to some good Warren firebreathing!
In other ground game news, my husband has been canvassed twice now (Planned Parenthood came round last night) and me not even once. It's almost as if the Democrats are just taking my vote for granted (jk you totally can, guys, it's cool).
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:34 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
In other ground game news, my husband has been canvassed twice now (Planned Parenthood came round last night) and me not even once. It's almost as if the Democrats are just taking my vote for granted (jk you totally can, guys, it's cool).
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:34 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
This sentence is overbudget
nah it is five words. listen again:
“My theme today is five words: 'under budget' and 'ahead of schedule.'”
I just qualified to be a Trump surrogate didn't I
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
nah it is five words. listen again:
“My theme today is five words: 'under budget' and 'ahead of schedule.'”
I just qualified to be a Trump surrogate didn't I
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
He's strong, he's smart, he's tough, he's vicious, he's violent
A newborn! I've said it before, Trump is simply a man out of his time and place. He would have fit right in as a medieval warlord or Bronze Age king, discarding unfruitful wives, proclaiming divine honors for his sons and keeping his daughters for himself. He'd still have been an idiot, of course, and gotten conquered by some tribe sweeping out of the steppe, but he'd have been in his milieu, and not ours.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
A newborn! I've said it before, Trump is simply a man out of his time and place. He would have fit right in as a medieval warlord or Bronze Age king, discarding unfruitful wives, proclaiming divine honors for his sons and keeping his daughters for himself. He'd still have been an idiot, of course, and gotten conquered by some tribe sweeping out of the steppe, but he'd have been in his milieu, and not ours.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
I believe, per Fahrenthold, that a fan paid the $30k.
If by "fan" you mean "someone who probably owed Donald Trump 30-large for services rendered."
Probably only owed him $20 grand.
posted by Etrigan at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
If by "fan" you mean "someone who probably owed Donald Trump 30-large for services rendered."
Probably only owed him $20 grand.
posted by Etrigan at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
If the theme is supposed to be under budget, he should have said it in four words. Also, he should have said it yesterday.
posted by phooky at 9:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by phooky at 9:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
> To blow the dust off a different usage, are we still allowed to say "girls don't trump", or is that too pedestalizling?
What usage is that? What does it mean? (But I'm pretty sure saying "girls don't..." followed by anything at all is a bad idea.)
posted by languagehat at 9:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
What usage is that? What does it mean? (But I'm pretty sure saying "girls don't..." followed by anything at all is a bad idea.)
posted by languagehat at 9:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pass gas, LH. Took me a minute.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokedown at 9:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
is there a list of checks made out by the Trump Foundation for 2006?
There's the Form 990PF [pdf, saves to disk] and nothing obvious there.
posted by holgate at 9:44 AM on October 26, 2016
There's the Form 990PF [pdf, saves to disk] and nothing obvious there.
posted by holgate at 9:44 AM on October 26, 2016
He would have fit right in as a medieval warlord or Bronze Age king
I mean the Complaint to Ea-nasir basically sounds like it was written by Trump
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I mean the Complaint to Ea-nasir basically sounds like it was written by Trump
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
In other ground game news, my husband has been canvassed twice now (Planned Parenthood came round last night) and me not even once. It's almost as if the Democrats are just taking my vote for granted (jk you totally can, guys, it's cool).
Similar story here. Mr. Machine has been canvassed three times, twice for Hills, once for our tight Senate race.
COME ON, DEMS, CAN'T YOU PRETEND I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE BAG FOR PRESIDENT HILLARY SINCE I WAS A TEN YEAR OLD
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
Similar story here. Mr. Machine has been canvassed three times, twice for Hills, once for our tight Senate race.
COME ON, DEMS, CAN'T YOU PRETEND I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE BAG FOR PRESIDENT HILLARY SINCE I WAS A TEN YEAR OLD
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
Andrea Mitchell is reporting from Clinton's rally today and just said, as an aside - "we have an all-female team here. How about that, for this year. How things have changed since I started my career here...wow." Mitchell started at NBC News in 1978.
As we get closer to election day and the polls show Clinton leading, I think what is about to happen is getting more and more real for women. I won't let myself believe it until it actually happens...
posted by sallybrown at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
As we get closer to election day and the polls show Clinton leading, I think what is about to happen is getting more and more real for women. I won't let myself believe it until it actually happens...
posted by sallybrown at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
Mrs. Fish has been canvassed twice so far by the Hillary campaign, and I not at all. Which is entirely reasonable because we live in Virginia, where you don't register with a party; instead, you pick which primary you want to vote in, and the parties get those records from the election officials. I'm not on their rolls because I voted in the R primary to try and stop Trump from winning the state (spoiler warning: It didn't work).
Anyway, I know it's a shock because of how robust his ground game is, but I also haven't been canvassed by the Trump campaign. I got one mailer requesting money, and that's been it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyway, I know it's a shock because of how robust his ground game is, but I also haven't been canvassed by the Trump campaign. I got one mailer requesting money, and that's been it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have become addicted to Keepin' it 1600 and feel they should be compelled by force of legal action to make a cast a day through the election but I also realize that isn't entirely realistic.
At any rate, I am going through withdrawals and need another similar political podcast. Something with that same casual light vibe but still as sharp, if at all possible.
Any suggestions?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
At any rate, I am going through withdrawals and need another similar political podcast. Something with that same casual light vibe but still as sharp, if at all possible.
Any suggestions?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
No, that's Supertrump.
That's Brexit in America.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:22 PM on October 26 [26 favorites +] [!]
"Take a look at my girlfriend..."
posted by emelenjr at 10:00 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
That's Brexit in America.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:22 PM on October 26 [26 favorites +] [!]
"Take a look at my girlfriend..."
posted by emelenjr at 10:00 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
House Republicans are already preparing for ‘years’ of investigations of Clinton
Fuck this country.
posted by Talez at 10:05 AM on October 26, 2016 [48 favorites]
Fuck this country.
posted by Talez at 10:05 AM on October 26, 2016 [48 favorites]
Heh, Talez, I was JUST linking that. Glad I previewed before posting. Here's a quote:
This just makes me unspeakably tired. I had vaguely hoped that the shellacking of Trump (TTTCS) would have made the Republicans step back from the brink a bit and be all, "Whooo, yeah, some craziness! Apparently there's a huge part of the country that trusts us about as far as they can throw us these days. Howsabout we play the long game and act like bipartisan grownups and get some shit done?" But apparently not.
Instead, we've got the equivalent of the Benghazi hearings to look forward to for the next four years, at minimum. I loathe these people.
posted by Salieri at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [64 favorites]
Jason Chaffetz, the Utah congressman wrapping up his first term atop the powerful House Oversight Committee, un-endorsed Donald Trump weeks ago. That freed up him to prepare for something else: spending years, come January, probing the record of a President Hillary Clinton.
“It’s a target-rich environment,” said Chaffetz in a interview in Salt Lake City’s suburbs. “Even before we get to Day One, we’ve got two years worth of material already lined up. She has four years of history at the State Department, and it ain’t good.”
If Republicans retain control of the House, something that GOP-friendly maps make possible even in the event of a Trump loss, Clinton will become the first president since George H.W. Bush to immediately face a House Oversight Committee controlled by the opposition party. (Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama lost Congress later in their presidencies.)
And other Republican leaders say they support Chaffetz’s efforts — raising the specter of more partisan acrimony between them and the White House for the next four years.
“The rigorous oversight conducted by House Republicans has already brought to light troubling developments in the Clinton email scandal,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said in a statement to the Washington Post. “The speaker supports [Oversight’s] investigative efforts following where the evidence leads, especially where it shows the need for changes in the law.”
This just makes me unspeakably tired. I had vaguely hoped that the shellacking of Trump (TTTCS) would have made the Republicans step back from the brink a bit and be all, "Whooo, yeah, some craziness! Apparently there's a huge part of the country that trusts us about as far as they can throw us these days. Howsabout we play the long game and act like bipartisan grownups and get some shit done?" But apparently not.
Instead, we've got the equivalent of the Benghazi hearings to look forward to for the next four years, at minimum. I loathe these people.
posted by Salieri at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [64 favorites]
House Republicans are already preparing for ‘years’ of investigations of Clinton
I hate everything
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
I hate everything
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
“The speaker supports [Oversight’s] investigative efforts following where the evidence leads, especially where it shows the need for changes in the law.”
ie "especially where nothing illegal actually happened"
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
ie "especially where nothing illegal actually happened"
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
Investigations of the Clintons go back fucking decades. Why should anyone but the Republican base give a flying fuck about this promise? Ain't nothing more they can dig up, just more wasted time and taxpayer dollars.
Lose/lose/lose, Chaffetz.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Lose/lose/lose, Chaffetz.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hillary Clinton interview on Power 105.1's Breakfast Club
When asked what Bill will be doing as "first man", she mentioned she asked him to work with areas that have been left behind and she brought up Indian (Native American) reservations. That's damn good, even if she said "Indian".
posted by numaner at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
When asked what Bill will be doing as "first man", she mentioned she asked him to work with areas that have been left behind and she brought up Indian (Native American) reservations. That's damn good, even if she said "Indian".
posted by numaner at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Fuck this country.
Please be more specific.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Please be more specific.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The newer crop of House Republicans didn't go to DC to govern, and they're not going to start now.
posted by holgate at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by holgate at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
Alpha House had a Republican Congressperson who was angling to establish a permanent committee on Benghazi, and it was supposed to indicate that she was crazy.
posted by Etrigan at 10:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 10:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
“The speaker supports [Oversight’s] investigative efforts following where the evidence leads, especially where it shows the need for changes in the law.”
Remind me, which party whines about the "criminalization of politics" when its members get caught with their hands in the cookie jar?
posted by Gelatin at 10:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Remind me, which party whines about the "criminalization of politics" when its members get caught with their hands in the cookie jar?
posted by Gelatin at 10:13 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
a permanent committee on Benghazi
Just choked on my water, I'm dying.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Just choked on my water, I'm dying.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Alpha House is brilliant and criminally underwatched.
posted by thebrokedown at 10:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokedown at 10:16 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just want our children to have the same opportunity to investigate Benghazi that we have.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [81 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [81 favorites]
When asked what Bill will be doing as "first man", she mentioned she asked him to work with areas that have been left behind and she brought up Indian (Native American) reservations. That's damn good, even if she said "Indian".
It's not so clear-cut as "Native American is correct and Indian/American Indian is incorrect." There are a lot of different views about it in the Native community.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [47 favorites]
It's not so clear-cut as "Native American is correct and Indian/American Indian is incorrect." There are a lot of different views about it in the Native community.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [47 favorites]
I'm wondering why the Republican Congresscritters think that Hillary Clinton isn't going to retaliate far more effectively than they've managed to attack her once she's President. Nothing personal (although remember that she's amazing with Opposition Research and I suspect will have no moral problem wrecking their careers as they are trying to attack the concept of good governance) - just little things like automatic voter registration that will wreck their majorities.
If they are unluckly, statehood for Puerto Rico is on the cards; if Clinton wins the House there are basically two years to get the referendum done then the bills passed.
posted by Francis at 10:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
If they are unluckly, statehood for Puerto Rico is on the cards; if Clinton wins the House there are basically two years to get the referendum done then the bills passed.
posted by Francis at 10:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
This just makes me unspeakably tired. I had vaguely hoped that the shellacking of Trump (TTTCS) would have made the Republicans step back from the brink a bit and be all, "Whooo, yeah, some craziness! Apparently there's a huge part of the country that trusts us about as far as they can throw us these days. Howsabout we play the long game and act like bipartisan grownups and get some shit done?" But apparently not.
They've got 31 state legislatures and an unsinkable majority in the house operating as a wall against any vaguely progressive agenda. The electorate who needs to punish Republican intransigence won't punish them because they too have been scared shitless by progressive ideas and have their own hangups about punishing unmarried women for having sex and black people getting a welfare dime.
The Republicans don't need to turn it around. They just need to wait. Wait for the country to go to shit (worst case) or even just stay where it is (best case) on the "Democrat's watch" even if they're the ones setting up the charges under the metaphorical bridge. 2018 they have a ridiculous advantage to getting the Senate back and 2020 will be a full court press against a bound to be unpopular incumbent (when they're through with her) and enough seats that will be a lock for them running in the Senate.
Why would you deviate when you literally have the long game planned out for the next decade?
posted by Talez at 10:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
They've got 31 state legislatures and an unsinkable majority in the house operating as a wall against any vaguely progressive agenda. The electorate who needs to punish Republican intransigence won't punish them because they too have been scared shitless by progressive ideas and have their own hangups about punishing unmarried women for having sex and black people getting a welfare dime.
The Republicans don't need to turn it around. They just need to wait. Wait for the country to go to shit (worst case) or even just stay where it is (best case) on the "Democrat's watch" even if they're the ones setting up the charges under the metaphorical bridge. 2018 they have a ridiculous advantage to getting the Senate back and 2020 will be a full court press against a bound to be unpopular incumbent (when they're through with her) and enough seats that will be a lock for them running in the Senate.
Why would you deviate when you literally have the long game planned out for the next decade?
posted by Talez at 10:19 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
He would have fit right in as a medieval warlord or Bronze Age king
I don't think so. He's a weak, weak man who has surrounded himself with the wrong people. He would have been imprisoned by smarter and more decisive enemies and then likely murdered if he was a king in those earlier times.
posted by My Dad at 10:20 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
I don't think so. He's a weak, weak man who has surrounded himself with the wrong people. He would have been imprisoned by smarter and more decisive enemies and then likely murdered if he was a king in those earlier times.
posted by My Dad at 10:20 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm jonseing for a new debate.
where
is
my
NEW
OPPO!!!!!!!!
posted by sallybrown at 10:22 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
where
is
my
NEW
OPPO!!!!!!!!
posted by sallybrown at 10:22 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
FFS people, single issue voting is dumb.
It's not dumb if you genuinely believe that your one issue is more important than everything else put together. I've always thought that the "hurf-durf single-issue voters" thing that liberals like to trot out is a bit of a red herring. What people almost always mean when they say "single-issue voting is dumb" is really something like "your single issue is dumb." I can see myself becoming a single-issue voter, depending on what issue was in play. Abortion just isn't my issue.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's not dumb if you genuinely believe that your one issue is more important than everything else put together. I've always thought that the "hurf-durf single-issue voters" thing that liberals like to trot out is a bit of a red herring. What people almost always mean when they say "single-issue voting is dumb" is really something like "your single issue is dumb." I can see myself becoming a single-issue voter, depending on what issue was in play. Abortion just isn't my issue.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:23 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Talez: The Republicans don't need to turn it around. They just need to wait. Wait for the country to go to shit (worst case) or even just stay where it is (best case) on the "Democrat's watch" even if they're the ones setting up the charges under the metaphorical bridge.
Why wait? Take a page from Donald's book, disregard reality or any positive facts and just say "everything's shit, what have they done for you? Try me, what do you have to lose?"
posted by filthy light thief at 10:23 AM on October 26, 2016
Why wait? Take a page from Donald's book, disregard reality or any positive facts and just say "everything's shit, what have they done for you? Try me, what do you have to lose?"
posted by filthy light thief at 10:23 AM on October 26, 2016
Why wait? Take a page from Donald's book, disregard reality or any positive facts and just say "everything's shit, what have they done for you? Try me, what do you have to lose?"
Because the electoral math is shot this election. But expect any progressive ideas over the next two years to be immediately shit on by the Rs unilaterally in the press.
posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Because the electoral math is shot this election. But expect any progressive ideas over the next two years to be immediately shit on by the Rs unilaterally in the press.
posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not dumb if you genuinely believe that your one issue is more important than everything else put together. I've always thought that the "hurf-durf single-issue voters" thing that liberals like to trot out is a bit of a red herring. What people almost always mean when they say "single-issue voting is dumb" is really something like "your single issue is dumb." I can see myself becoming a single-issue voter, depending on what issue was in play. Abortion just isn't my issue.
You are assuming some objective reality where all opinions are not dumb.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
You are assuming some objective reality where all opinions are not dumb.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:26 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tim Kaine's Musical Obsessions: Senator Goes Deep on Top 5 Artists "We asked him to list his five favorite artists, in no particular order."
The Replacements
The Carter Family
Dave Matthews Band
Cornershop
Charlie Parker
posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
The Replacements
The Carter Family
Dave Matthews Band
Cornershop
Charlie Parker
posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
2018 they have a ridiculous advantage to getting the Senate back and 2020 will be a full court press against a bound to be unpopular incumbent (when they're through with her) and enough seats that will be a lock for them running in the Senate.
More unpopular than she is now? They've had all the knives out for her for over a decade. Plus they'll have to contend with (probably) yet another Trump candidacy, and the specter of another white supremacist and misogynist driving yet more people from their constituency. If they can't get it together this time around, and are only showing signs of doubling down on the bullshit, what makes you think they'll be an unstoppable political machine in 2020?
posted by Existential Dread at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
More unpopular than she is now? They've had all the knives out for her for over a decade. Plus they'll have to contend with (probably) yet another Trump candidacy, and the specter of another white supremacist and misogynist driving yet more people from their constituency. If they can't get it together this time around, and are only showing signs of doubling down on the bullshit, what makes you think they'll be an unstoppable political machine in 2020?
posted by Existential Dread at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The: I can see myself becoming a single-issue voter, depending on what issue was in play.
True, but I still feel that there is no one issue that truly outweighs everything else that is part of running the country, county or city. In my eyes, governance is about balance, recognizing that you can't get 100% of what you want on every issue, and striving to strike a balance that moves things forward.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
True, but I still feel that there is no one issue that truly outweighs everything else that is part of running the country, county or city. In my eyes, governance is about balance, recognizing that you can't get 100% of what you want on every issue, and striving to strike a balance that moves things forward.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Cornershop is so random. I love it.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Today, Trump at his Washington hotel ribbon-cutting event:
“My theme today is five words: under budget and ahead of schedule.”
Six, Donald, six."
Don't you think he looks tired?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
“My theme today is five words: under budget and ahead of schedule.”
Six, Donald, six."
Don't you think he looks tired?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
I finally got my first notice that America Needs Trump So We Can Get Rid Of All The Allah-Worshipping Ragheads on facebook yesterday! Given the environment I grew up in I'm a little surprised it's taken this long.
Normally that kind of thing would get someone unfriended and I'd move on, but it was family, so I called him on his bigoted horseshit, which won me my very first You Just Hate America And Love The Terrorists, with a side of America is a CHRISTIAN nation.
Almost made me a little bit proud.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 10:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Normally that kind of thing would get someone unfriended and I'd move on, but it was family, so I called him on his bigoted horseshit, which won me my very first You Just Hate America And Love The Terrorists, with a side of America is a CHRISTIAN nation.
Almost made me a little bit proud.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 10:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
I can see myself becoming a single-issue voter, depending on what issue was in play. Abortion just isn't my issue.
I agree, although mine is more in a negative than a positive direction. For me it is because there are some issues that I think no decent President could support. Even if I did not have positive reasons to vote for Hillary (and I do), there are multiple issues that even standing alone would not permit me to vote for Trump - the Muslim ban, for example. It is inhumane, it is stupid, and it violates not just our Constitution, but also the founding principle of our country. If everything else about Trump was identical to a Rockefeller Republican (extinct these days but agreeable to me in theory), I still could never vote for him because of this one single issue.
There are some things I where I just can't take into account the larger picture, because they are non-negotiable.
posted by sallybrown at 10:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
I agree, although mine is more in a negative than a positive direction. For me it is because there are some issues that I think no decent President could support. Even if I did not have positive reasons to vote for Hillary (and I do), there are multiple issues that even standing alone would not permit me to vote for Trump - the Muslim ban, for example. It is inhumane, it is stupid, and it violates not just our Constitution, but also the founding principle of our country. If everything else about Trump was identical to a Rockefeller Republican (extinct these days but agreeable to me in theory), I still could never vote for him because of this one single issue.
There are some things I where I just can't take into account the larger picture, because they are non-negotiable.
posted by sallybrown at 10:29 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
So apparently Paul Ryan is trying to duck out of debating his Democratic opponent for his House seat. "While the nine-term Ryan has mostly cruised to re-election every two years and is widely expected to do so again this year, he has historically debated his Democratic opponents. One notable exception was in 2012, when Ryan was campaigning across the country as the Republican vice presidential nominee.
Have we sung enough praises for Owen Ellickson's Twitter feed? 'cause that's how I find this. All kinds of interesting things turn up from him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:30 AM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
Have we sung enough praises for Owen Ellickson's Twitter feed? 'cause that's how I find this. All kinds of interesting things turn up from him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:30 AM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
kirkaracha: Tim Kaine's Musical Obsessions: Senator Goes Deep on Top 5 Artists
Obama set the bar pretty high: The Presidential Suite: A Look Back at Obama’s Musical Milestones (Pitchfork, October 13 2016) [full disclosure/ brag: the author was my trainee back in my college radio DJ days]
(Also: how did I miss South by South Lawn, Obama's "festival of ideas, art, and action"?)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2016
Obama set the bar pretty high: The Presidential Suite: A Look Back at Obama’s Musical Milestones (Pitchfork, October 13 2016) [full disclosure/ brag: the author was my trainee back in my college radio DJ days]
(Also: how did I miss South by South Lawn, Obama's "festival of ideas, art, and action"?)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2016
From that Power 105.1 interview:
HILLARY CLINTON: And so any chance I get, I will dance. I’m not sure that it would be anything that you’d be saying was good dancing, but --
DJ ENVY: Okay. [Laughter.] You don’t do the robot and stuff like that?
HILLARY CLINTON: No, I’m not a robot – I don’t do the robot stuff, yeah.
Freudian slip, Clinton is a robot
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
HILLARY CLINTON: And so any chance I get, I will dance. I’m not sure that it would be anything that you’d be saying was good dancing, but --
DJ ENVY: Okay. [Laughter.] You don’t do the robot and stuff like that?
HILLARY CLINTON: No, I’m not a robot – I don’t do the robot stuff, yeah.
Freudian slip, Clinton is a robot
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
Wait, has Loretta Lynch even been accused of anything beyond Being Attorney General While Black?
*googles*
oh yeah, the Great Bill Clinton-Loretta Lynch Tarmac Palaver of 2016.
*dons newsboy cap*
WEAAAAK sauce! WEAAAK sace for your NO-thing BUR-gers! HOT off the STOVE! $20, SAIT! Get yer WEAAAK SAUCE HERE!
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
*googles*
oh yeah, the Great Bill Clinton-Loretta Lynch Tarmac Palaver of 2016.
*dons newsboy cap*
WEAAAAK sauce! WEAAAK sace for your NO-thing BUR-gers! HOT off the STOVE! $20, SAIT! Get yer WEAAAK SAUCE HERE!
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
True, but I still feel that there is no one issue that truly outweighs everything else that is part of running the country, county or city.
I would argue that there is no one issue that is truly one issue. "Choice" isn't just abortion -- it's women's rights, it's privacy, it's access to medical care, it's funding for medical care, it's birth control, it's sex ed, it's federalism, it's the entire role of government in a "single issue".
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
I would argue that there is no one issue that is truly one issue. "Choice" isn't just abortion -- it's women's rights, it's privacy, it's access to medical care, it's funding for medical care, it's birth control, it's sex ed, it's federalism, it's the entire role of government in a "single issue".
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
"We asked him to list his five favorite artists, in no particular order." ... Dave Matthews Band
"Tim Kaine would like to play 'Satellite' at the Inaugural Ball, but he understands if you're not really into it."
posted by octobersurprise at 10:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
"Tim Kaine would like to play 'Satellite' at the Inaugural Ball, but he understands if you're not really into it."
posted by octobersurprise at 10:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Future Oversight investigations, he said, might depend on whether Clinton tries to put people ensnared by previous probes into her administration. “It depends on who stays and who goes,” Chaffetz said. “If Hillary Clinton brings in the same gang — Loretta Lynch, Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin, Jake Sullivan — she has her cast of characters. If they put on the same play, she’s not going to get good reviews from the critics.
Ummm say what? Not to grant rationality to the rest of his crap, but the other people he lists are longtime Clinton people. Lynch is very much not. She is not even part of the very outermost ring of Clinton's circles. Not to mention, she is one of the most lowkey, reasonable, agreeable people I have ever met. The fact that that piece of crap Chaffetz feels free to tar her name like this is just...GRARRRRRRRRR.
posted by sallybrown at 10:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ummm say what? Not to grant rationality to the rest of his crap, but the other people he lists are longtime Clinton people. Lynch is very much not. She is not even part of the very outermost ring of Clinton's circles. Not to mention, she is one of the most lowkey, reasonable, agreeable people I have ever met. The fact that that piece of crap Chaffetz feels free to tar her name like this is just...GRARRRRRRRRR.
posted by sallybrown at 10:36 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
"We asked him to list his five favorite artists, in no particular order." ... Dave Matthews Band
NOW don't you believe in single-issue voting? He's lucky I already turned in my ballot.
posted by sallybrown at 10:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
NOW don't you believe in single-issue voting? He's lucky I already turned in my ballot.
posted by sallybrown at 10:37 AM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
House Republicans are already preparing for ‘years’ of investigations of Clinton
That's a great argument to refute ticket-splitters.
posted by msalt at 10:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's a great argument to refute ticket-splitters.
posted by msalt at 10:38 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Remember When Donald Trump Got Booed For Butchering "Take Me Out To The Ballgame”?
Clinton, meanwhile, got booed throwing out the first pitch simply for existing, or something. There's also video of Clinton singing, though mostly inaudibly.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on October 26, 2016
Clinton, meanwhile, got booed throwing out the first pitch simply for existing, or something. There's also video of Clinton singing, though mostly inaudibly.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on October 26, 2016
Every time Kaine mentions his taste in music, I am contractually obligated to reiterate my invitation to busk with him.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 10:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
I caught some of Tim Kaine on Rachel Maddow last night, and can I just say how delightful he is in this election season of all seasons. I mean, he'd be pretty awesome at any time, but he's a goddamn breath of fresh air in comparison to the ugliness of the rest of this shitshow.
When Trump and the rest of the weasel Republicans are showing their asses about how little they think of women, you've got Kaine on national media proudly declaring himself a feminist and talking about how great it is to support a strong woman.
This man is an utter delight. You're not the Diamond Joe we wanted, but you're the Golden Tim we deserve.
posted by Salieri at 10:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [46 favorites]
When Trump and the rest of the weasel Republicans are showing their asses about how little they think of women, you've got Kaine on national media proudly declaring himself a feminist and talking about how great it is to support a strong woman.
This man is an utter delight. You're not the Diamond Joe we wanted, but you're the Golden Tim we deserve.
posted by Salieri at 10:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [46 favorites]
Eh, the DMB is just a bit of Virginia callback for a long-time Charlottesville resident. Always be (former, unless he's returned by now) constituent servicing.
posted by phearlez at 10:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 10:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Freudian slip, Clinton is a robot
Robots run on pure logic and so would not commit freudian slips, however robots know that we know this, so logically they would add in deliberate freudian slips. THEREFORE: Clinton is totally a robot.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
Robots run on pure logic and so would not commit freudian slips, however robots know that we know this, so logically they would add in deliberate freudian slips. THEREFORE: Clinton is totally a robot.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
In some defense of Kaine's DMB fandom, I get the impression that DMB is to Va dads what Aerosmith is to Mass dads. I can't abide either group, but if those dads are also into The Replacements or O Positive, who am I to judge?
posted by pxe2000 at 10:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 10:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
the DMB is just a bit of Virginia callback for a long-time Charlottesville resident.
I figure it's like having to eat cheesesteaks in Pennsylvania.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I figure it's like having to eat cheesesteaks in Pennsylvania.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
When asked what Bill will be doing as "first man", she mentioned she asked him to work with areas that have been left behind and she brought up Indian (Native American) reservations. That's damn good, even if she said "Indian".
"Indian" is also a legal term of art. Or at least it was when I took the Bar in WA a few years back. The person who taught the online section on Indian Law even made it a point at the beginning of the course to point out that he wasn't using the term in a derogatory manner, that's just how it's used when dealing with Native Americans in a legal sense.
(And strange that this is my first comment in an election thread, given that I've read pretty much all of them. Need to lurk less is suppose.)
posted by friendlyjuan at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [38 favorites]
"Indian" is also a legal term of art. Or at least it was when I took the Bar in WA a few years back. The person who taught the online section on Indian Law even made it a point at the beginning of the course to point out that he wasn't using the term in a derogatory manner, that's just how it's used when dealing with Native Americans in a legal sense.
(And strange that this is my first comment in an election thread, given that I've read pretty much all of them. Need to lurk less is suppose.)
posted by friendlyjuan at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [38 favorites]
"Tim Kaine would like to play 'Satellite' at the Inaugural Ball, but he understands if you're not really into it."
No way! I got yer history-making inaugural ball song right here.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
No way! I got yer history-making inaugural ball song right here.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm a California dad that grew up in Virginia, and I really like a couple Dave Matthews Band songs. I thought his other picks were quite cool and was surprised he named Cornershop since I like them, too.
Not "Satellite."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not "Satellite."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Eh, the DMB is just a bit of Virginia callback for a long-time Charlottesville resident. Always be (former, unless he's returned by now) constituent servicing.
That's why you always go with Mary Chapin Carpenter for your Virginia pandering needs.
(When did Kaine live in Cville? Are you thinking of Creigh Deeds?)
posted by sallybrown at 10:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's why you always go with Mary Chapin Carpenter for your Virginia pandering needs.
(When did Kaine live in Cville? Are you thinking of Creigh Deeds?)
posted by sallybrown at 10:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
THEREFORE: Clinton is totally a robot.
excuse me, it's "host"
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
excuse me, it's "host"
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:47 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Robots run on pure logic and so would not commit freudian slips, however robots know that we know this, so logically they would add in deliberate freudian slips. THEREFORE: Clinton is totally a robot.
I was thinking of this story from I, Robot
Days before the election HRC will prove her humanity once and for all by violating the First Law of Robotics when she punches Trump in the face on national TV... but perhaps... perhaps Trump, too, was a robot all along
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
I was thinking of this story from I, Robot
Days before the election HRC will prove her humanity once and for all by violating the First Law of Robotics when she punches Trump in the face on national TV... but perhaps... perhaps Trump, too, was a robot all along
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Kaine didn't live in Cville, Matthews did. IIRC he only moved in order to go where his spouse was pursuing higher education.
posted by phearlez at 10:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 10:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't you think he looks tired?
I wasn't paying much attention, but the impression I got was a kind of comfort and security from being in a place with his name on it. We've seen it before from him: he wants to be around all the Trump shiny things all the time, but now he has to get on his shiny plane to Charlotte, which is not shiny apart from his golf club outside of Charlotte, and then to Kinston which is not that shiny at all.
I'm wondering why the Republican Congresscritters think that Hillary Clinton isn't going to retaliate far more effectively than they've managed to attack her once she's President.
Path dependency.
I think the best strategy to confront JudicialWitchhunt Watch and people like Chaffetz is "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough." Want another impeachment circus? Do it already. Put up or shut up. There's actual governing to be done, and if you're not willing to do it, give your seat to someone who is.
posted by holgate at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wasn't paying much attention, but the impression I got was a kind of comfort and security from being in a place with his name on it. We've seen it before from him: he wants to be around all the Trump shiny things all the time, but now he has to get on his shiny plane to Charlotte, which is not shiny apart from his golf club outside of Charlotte, and then to Kinston which is not that shiny at all.
I'm wondering why the Republican Congresscritters think that Hillary Clinton isn't going to retaliate far more effectively than they've managed to attack her once she's President.
Path dependency.
I think the best strategy to confront Judicial
posted by holgate at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
People, people -- Kaine didn't choose DMB, he chose Dadliness. DMB is just in the Dad Kit.
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Wait, has Loretta Lynch even been accused of anything beyond Being Attorney General While Black?
Me confusing her with Loretta Lynn every time I hear her name.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
"Can't make it up: Trump's son in law publishes article by Kremlin mouthpiece suggesting Moscow may want Alaska back" --@andrewsweiss
The article in question, from The Observer: On Alaska Day, Russians Still Dream of Getting Alaska Back
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
The article in question, from The Observer: On Alaska Day, Russians Still Dream of Getting Alaska Back
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
Excuse me, but I've never been sure why people have such a hate-on for Dave Matthews Band? I kinda like some of their songs, even if they're a bit cheesy. If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from? To me it just seems like at some point in high school all the cool kids decided that they sucked, and that was that.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Indian" is also a legal term of art. Or at least it was when I took the Bar in WA a few years back. The person who taught the online section on Indian Law even made it a point at the beginning of the course to point out that he wasn't using the term in a derogatory manner, that's just how it's used when dealing with Native Americans in a legal sense.
It can be a term of art; it really depends what the legal context is. In a lot of federal law and regulation native people may be referred to as Native Americans, while the legal entities may be Indian Tribes (and in some places "Indian Tribes" is understood to include Native Alaskan villages and corporations, but not always). But even that's' not consistent, much like the colloquial use.
In conclusion: Indian law is a land of contrasts.
posted by suelac at 10:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
It can be a term of art; it really depends what the legal context is. In a lot of federal law and regulation native people may be referred to as Native Americans, while the legal entities may be Indian Tribes (and in some places "Indian Tribes" is understood to include Native Alaskan villages and corporations, but not always). But even that's' not consistent, much like the colloquial use.
In conclusion: Indian law is a land of contrasts.
posted by suelac at 10:53 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Eh, the DMB is just a bit of Virginia callback for a long-time Charlottesville resident.
If he really wanted to show his C'ville credentials, he should have mentioned Clare Quilty.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
If he really wanted to show his C'ville credentials, he should have mentioned Clare Quilty.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The article in question, from The Observer: On Alaska Day, Russians Still Dream of Getting Alaska Back
What in holy HELL?
I hope this gets plastered all over Alaskan news.
posted by sallybrown at 10:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
What in holy HELL?
I hope this gets plastered all over Alaskan news.
posted by sallybrown at 10:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
hate-on for Dave Matthews Band
10% the music does nothing for me
90% The Wrong People like DMB
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
10% the music does nothing for me
90% The Wrong People like DMB
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:54 AM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
Had dinner with a friend last night. She is going to have a front row seat on election night. She's working for the Associated Press doing vote count verification. On November 8, she will be assigned 2 states. Representatives from each precinct will call her three times during the evening with vote counts... the third time being the final count. I'm not sure about the entire process, but ultimately, she will submit the vote totals, and that is the info that the AP uses to make their calls. Of course, workers will be forbidden to bring in their electronic devices. I don't think I would be calm and collected enough to do it!
posted by kimdog at 10:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kimdog at 10:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from?
Poughkeepsie.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Poughkeepsie.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:57 AM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from?
I think his voice is divisive the way Neil Young's can be, where people who dislike it truly hate it - it has a phony-sounding whining quality to my ear (I love Neil, though). Plus if you've spent much time around Charlottesville, you hear gossipy stories that make Dave Matthews himself sound like a less than great guy. And many people associate his fandom with not-so-nice people (can be a laxbro crowd).
Carter Beauford is delightful, though, and I mean that sincerely.
posted by sallybrown at 10:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think his voice is divisive the way Neil Young's can be, where people who dislike it truly hate it - it has a phony-sounding whining quality to my ear (I love Neil, though). Plus if you've spent much time around Charlottesville, you hear gossipy stories that make Dave Matthews himself sound like a less than great guy. And many people associate his fandom with not-so-nice people (can be a laxbro crowd).
Carter Beauford is delightful, though, and I mean that sincerely.
posted by sallybrown at 10:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
nthing the Alpha House recommendation. Enormous parodic skill honed for four decades while crafting Doonesbury, all squeezed into a couple of TV seasons.
posted by Coventry at 10:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 10:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter Elections: If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from
posted by theodolite at 10:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 10:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from? To me it just seems like at some point in high school all the cool kids decided that they sucked, and that was that.
they also dumped a whole bunch of poop on some people
posted by burgerrr at 10:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
they also dumped a whole bunch of poop on some people
posted by burgerrr at 10:59 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
DMB + U = DUMB
posted by porn in the woods at 11:00 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 11:00 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm going to listen to "Ants Marching" and then some Cornershop. Right after I'm done listening to Rush.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I couldn't say what it is exactly about DMB, but they are one of a very few bands that makes me stab a hole in the radio trying to change the station when their songs come on. In part, it's a combination of the syrupy ballad style they tend to have and the grating whininess of the singer's voice, and then the content of the songs is utter pablum. I dunno.
Back in high school, the really hyper-Christian kids (in a Christian private school) went through a phase where they were all breaking their "worldly" music CDs to show how pure they were going to definitely be from then on. (Me, I wrote a paper for English class that was basically ten pages of me reciting the arguments why rock music was "Satanic" and then pointing and laughing.) The only time I really felt strong empathy with their stance was when my sort-of-girlfriend showed me the mobile she had made to commemorate her separation from worldly music, and it was a half-dozen pieces of DMB discs hung on fishing wire.
posted by Scattercat at 11:07 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Back in high school, the really hyper-Christian kids (in a Christian private school) went through a phase where they were all breaking their "worldly" music CDs to show how pure they were going to definitely be from then on. (Me, I wrote a paper for English class that was basically ten pages of me reciting the arguments why rock music was "Satanic" and then pointing and laughing.) The only time I really felt strong empathy with their stance was when my sort-of-girlfriend showed me the mobile she had made to commemorate her separation from worldly music, and it was a half-dozen pieces of DMB discs hung on fishing wire.
posted by Scattercat at 11:07 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I believe, per Fahrenthold, that a fan paid the $30k.
If by "fan" you mean "someone who probably owed Donald Trump 30-large for services rendered."
Trump got his star on January 16, 2007. Season 6 of The Apprentice premiered January 7, 2007: "In a departure from the previous five Apprentice seasons, this one was shot in Los Angeles, California."
These days (maybe always?), these things are coordinated for publicity related to a new movie or project. I'm pretty sure NBC paid for it.
posted by sallybrown at 11:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
If by "fan" you mean "someone who probably owed Donald Trump 30-large for services rendered."
Trump got his star on January 16, 2007. Season 6 of The Apprentice premiered January 7, 2007: "In a departure from the previous five Apprentice seasons, this one was shot in Los Angeles, California."
These days (maybe always?), these things are coordinated for publicity related to a new movie or project. I'm pretty sure NBC paid for it.
posted by sallybrown at 11:08 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just back from watching Liz Warren open up both barrels in support of Katie McGinty.
Best part was afterwards and the place was clearing out, all of the people I work with spotted one another and accumulated to commiserate/wonk out/explain what days surrounding the election we are taking off and why. I encouraged folks to take their anxiety down to campaign HQ and door-knock.
Also Jon Bon Jovi is kicking off his campaigning concert tour here tomorrow night with Diamond Joe and I'm so tempted but I kind of hate Bon Jovi's brand of cock rock. Pittsburghers in general will eat it up, though. This is the land where hair bands never died, they just started using non-CFC hairspray.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:09 AM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
Best part was afterwards and the place was clearing out, all of the people I work with spotted one another and accumulated to commiserate/wonk out/explain what days surrounding the election we are taking off and why. I encouraged folks to take their anxiety down to campaign HQ and door-knock.
Also Jon Bon Jovi is kicking off his campaigning concert tour here tomorrow night with Diamond Joe and I'm so tempted but I kind of hate Bon Jovi's brand of cock rock. Pittsburghers in general will eat it up, though. This is the land where hair bands never died, they just started using non-CFC hairspray.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:09 AM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from? To me it just seems like at some point in high school all the cool kids decided that they sucked, and that was that.
My high school experience was basically exactly the opposite. I think most of them have moved on, but they still mostly love Widespread Panic.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:09 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
My high school experience was basically exactly the opposite. I think most of them have moved on, but they still mostly love Widespread Panic.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:09 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
If it's not too much of a derail, can someone please explain where all the DMB hate comes from? To me it just seems like at some point in high school all the cool kids decided that they sucked, and that was that.
it's magical, horrible intersection of jam bands, frat bro rock, and faux-sensitive "gurl you so fine" balladeering
posted by entropicamericana at 11:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
it's magical, horrible intersection of jam bands, frat bro rock, and faux-sensitive "gurl you so fine" balladeering
posted by entropicamericana at 11:10 AM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, let's retire the Dave Matthews Band tussle at this point. I'm sure we'll have some opportunity to argue about jam bands again in the future, don't need to do it in here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:14 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
Anybody But Donald Trump In Utah | MSNBC
Egg gets some love.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:17 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Egg gets some love.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:17 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Have we sung enough praises for Owen Ellickson's Twitter feed?
I've read a lot of praise about his feed, but I must admit that I find it practically unreadable. It seems to consist entirely of short snippets of [fake] conversations between politicians and journos with little context or substance and not much else to recommend it (that I can see, anyway). And I've grown pretty goddamn weary of the glut of 'funny' Trump parodies at this late stage of the game.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've read a lot of praise about his feed, but I must admit that I find it practically unreadable. It seems to consist entirely of short snippets of [fake] conversations between politicians and journos with little context or substance and not much else to recommend it (that I can see, anyway). And I've grown pretty goddamn weary of the glut of 'funny' Trump parodies at this late stage of the game.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:18 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm still not over the fact that Jared Kushner's paper published a column about Russia taking over Alaska. Is this truly a cultural belief in Russia?
Like the Japanese, who haven’t lost hope of regaining control over the Kuril Islands that were lost to Russia after WWII, Russian popular belief holds that Alaska is not really American, and there is a chance to have it back one day. (Vladimir Putin is set to visit Japan in December, and the islands will be first among topics to be discussed. Unlike Japan, though, Russia yet does not have her “Northern Territories Day” with regards to Alaska.)posted by sallybrown at 11:20 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Pop culture confirms the claim.
The hit song by Russian pop group “Lyube” was entitled “Do Not Fool with Us, America!”—of course, about Alaska. “Do not fool with us, America!” sings the band. “The czars were wrong! Russia and Alaska are two banks of the same river! Give back our dear land, dear Alaska, give it back to us!” In the video, Alaska is taken from the U.S. at gunpoint.
Lyube is rumored to be one of Putin’s favorite pop groups—the frontman, Nikolai Rastorguyev, received awards for merit and honor from Putin for his patriotic songs.
“We should have returned Alaska a long time ago!” sings Mashany, a performer from the Siberian city of Novosibirsk. She was virtually unknown until her hit, which trashes the dollar and demands Alaska be returned.
Maybe she, too, will be awarded by Putin.
The conviction in Russian claims on Alaska starts from childhood. In the Ural city of Chelyabinsk this summer, middle school students enacted a promise to “return” Alaska to Russia one day. The performance followed a Japanese samurai dreaming of getting Kuril Islands back to Japan from Russia. At one point, a boy covering his face with Putin’s mask appeared and, skillfully copying the sarcastic tone of the Russian President, asked the samurai, “But who will give them back to you?”—to the laughter and applause of the students. “I will be frank,” little Putin continued, “we do not need other people’s land, we take back what belongs to us. We took back Crimea. Alaska is next. And I do not want to hear about Kuril Islands anymore!”
But it's very possible I'm missing the forest for the trees.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:20 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:20 AM on October 26, 2016
I've read a lot of praise about his feed, but I must admit that I find it practically unreadable. It seems to consist entirely of short snippets of [fake] conversations between politicians and journos with little context or substance and not much else to recommend it (that I can see, anyway). And I've grown pretty goddamn weary of the glut of 'funny' Trump parodies at this late stage of the game.
I think that's basically the point by now. Everyone is sick of the dialogs. I feel like Owen is especially sick of them. Everyone's also super sick of the election. His twitter feed is a miserable slog, just like the election. It's the feed we deserve, not the feed we want.
(And there are occasionally good links that pop up in between the conversations.)
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think that's basically the point by now. Everyone is sick of the dialogs. I feel like Owen is especially sick of them. Everyone's also super sick of the election. His twitter feed is a miserable slog, just like the election. It's the feed we deserve, not the feed we want.
(And there are occasionally good links that pop up in between the conversations.)
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is this truly a cultural belief in Russia?
I can see a pretty big advantage in Putin making it so, if it isn't already. Every authoritarian needs a strong "they're all out to get us, they've stolen shit from us, we're now going to kick ass and take names to get our due!" narrative.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can see a pretty big advantage in Putin making it so, if it isn't already. Every authoritarian needs a strong "they're all out to get us, they've stolen shit from us, we're now going to kick ass and take names to get our due!" narrative.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Kurils are a useful (and cheap) political bargaining chip for both Russian and Japan when negotiating or dealing with other issues such as fisheries rights. They're also a way to facilitate conversations between Russia and Japan.
The Kurils are also useful for domestic politics in Japan. Advocating on their return is a way for the Japanese government to be seen to be doing something for a variety of constituencies, while doing nothing really at all.
While I think the Japanese government certainly wants them back, maintaining the status quo is not entirely bad, either.
I also do not understand how Jared Kuschner tied the Kurils to Alaska.
posted by My Dad at 11:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Kurils are also useful for domestic politics in Japan. Advocating on their return is a way for the Japanese government to be seen to be doing something for a variety of constituencies, while doing nothing really at all.
While I think the Japanese government certainly wants them back, maintaining the status quo is not entirely bad, either.
I also do not understand how Jared Kuschner tied the Kurils to Alaska.
posted by My Dad at 11:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is not great for morale in the Secret Service. Secret Service Agents Protecting Candidates Aren’t Getting Paid For All Their Work
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [46 favorites]
A cap on federal income has prevented United States Secret Service agents from being paid for hundreds of hours of work on the presidential campaign trail, leaving many agents working overtime for free since as early as this spring during what has been a historically demanding election year for the agency.The problem, of course, lies with Congress, who won't increase the cap even a little, and who imposed a hiring freeze two years ago, meaning the Secret Service can't hire more agents so as to alleviate the need for overtime.
The Secret Service is one of the only agencies in the government that routinely pays overtime. But the payments are part of a byzantine structure wherein agents can run up against caps on overtime per pay period or annually — as well a yearly federal cap of $160,300 that limits an agent’s salary and overtime combined.
It’s the annual federal cap, officials say, that has posed a problem during this year’s election and become a subject of great ire and frustration inside the agency.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on October 26, 2016 [46 favorites]
"Can't make it up: Trump's son in law publishes article by Kremlin mouthpiece suggesting Moscow may want Alaska back" --@andrewsweiss
The article in question, from The Observer: On Alaska Day, Russians Still Dream of Getting Alaska Back
WTMFF
posted by rp at 11:29 AM on October 26, 2016
The article in question, from The Observer: On Alaska Day, Russians Still Dream of Getting Alaska Back
WTMFF
posted by rp at 11:29 AM on October 26, 2016
The increased interest in Alaska is just another spear in Russia's campaign to own the Arctic.
posted by xyzzy at 11:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 11:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Owen Ellickson's Trump Leaks have developed a whole plotline of their own, which is pretty inscrutable at this point if you haven't been following along for weeks. I think by now they presuppose that you have a news junkie's knowledge of the election, and that you also know what the deal is with why it's the fire's turn now and the eldritch abomination that is Roger Ailes and why Chris Christie is called Hole and why Kellyanne Conway calls Trump it and and and.....anyway, I'm looking forward the Yuletide fic for the Trump Leaks!
posted by yasaman at 11:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 11:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Senator Tim Kaine On The Strong Women In His Life | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
The "GOP long game" discussion is worth having, but it sometimes neglects that the executive branch has agency, and the Dems know what bit them in 2010, and Obama is going to make a post-presidential push on redistricting and fair elections.
If HRC wins, immigration goes back on the agenda. If the House GOP is more concerned with drip-drip investigations, then you take it on the road to Arizona and Nevada and Texas. If the Senate GOP wants to drag out judicial nominations, then you make it clear that their re-election campaigns begin right now. Including you, Ted Cruz.
Obama field director Mitch Stewart talked about this on Keepin' It 1600 (46m in), saying that the biggest demotivator in 2010 among enthused Obama '08 voters was seeing their downballot candidates back away from the president, or even run ads proudly asserting their differences. He admits that there isn't a strategy in place right now, and that 2018 is a mitigation effort, but it's on the agenda. Perhaps the best hope is that there's sufficient residual Trumpism in 2017-18 that it draws investigation bullshit and GOP primaries that bring forth the post-Trump equivalent of Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell.
posted by holgate at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
If HRC wins, immigration goes back on the agenda. If the House GOP is more concerned with drip-drip investigations, then you take it on the road to Arizona and Nevada and Texas. If the Senate GOP wants to drag out judicial nominations, then you make it clear that their re-election campaigns begin right now. Including you, Ted Cruz.
Obama field director Mitch Stewart talked about this on Keepin' It 1600 (46m in), saying that the biggest demotivator in 2010 among enthused Obama '08 voters was seeing their downballot candidates back away from the president, or even run ads proudly asserting their differences. He admits that there isn't a strategy in place right now, and that 2018 is a mitigation effort, but it's on the agenda. Perhaps the best hope is that there's sufficient residual Trumpism in 2017-18 that it draws investigation bullshit and GOP primaries that bring forth the post-Trump equivalent of Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell.
posted by holgate at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump Modeled His Life on Cinematic Loser Charles Foster Kane
posted by kirkaracha at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
In 2002, Errol Morris was hired to make a short film for the Academy Awards. Its premise was simple: a parade of talking heads describe their favorite movie. One of these speakers, Donald Trump, professed his love for Citizen Kane. More than that, he strongly identified with its protagonist—the plutocrat and newspaper magnate Charles Foster Kane. Trump appreciated what he took to be the film’s core insight: that wealth tends to isolate those who have it; and that money, contrary to popular opinion, doesn’t always lead to happiness.The Trump in the video is almost unrecognizably coherent.
Harmless enough, you’re perhaps tempted to say. Maybe even profound, by the dismal standards we apply to Trump. But watch the film again, as I recently did, and his analysis takes on a more frightening quality. Because while Trump seems to think that Citizen Kane is about a great man who happened to fail—whose romantic relationships were less than ideal and whose political career never panned out—he overlooks that it is also, and more importantly, a condemnation of Kane’s character. He somehow misses the central narrative about a modern Faust—a man who, in pursuit of money, fame, and power, ends up losing his soul.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
The Errol Morris video has surfaced intermittently during the campaign -- it even inspired a Twitter hashtag awhile ago. Really, I like the Trump in that video quite a bit. I wish we could have that Trump back.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:37 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by roll truck roll at 11:37 AM on October 26, 2016
Instead, we've got the equivalent of the Benghazi hearings to look forward to for the next four years, at minimum. I loathe these people.
How Paul Ryan Will De-[redacted] Himself
How Paul Ryan Will De-[redacted] Himself
Will Republicans tear one another apart? Will Trumpites vow never to vote for members of the hated GOP establishment?posted by tonycpsu at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, I wish -- but Dave Weigel's story today in the Post suggests to me that Trumpites and Trump skeptics will probably kiss and make up soon, united around their new shared goal: destroying Hillary Clinton by any means necessary. [...]
And guess who's fully on board: [Ryan, of course] [...]
Assuming he isn't quickly defenestrated, Ryan and the rest of the GOP establishment are just going to go all in on a campaign of multiple Clinton investigations and relentless obstructionism. (I know, I know: And this is different from the current Congress how exactly?) The long-term danger for the establishment is that Trump voters might consider Ryan et al. to be failures if the new president isn't literally in prison by the time of the 2018 midterms. In the short term, however, he and the rest of the Republicans in the House will seem, to the Trumpers, to be the only force holding off the Apocalypse.
So expect the worst from congressional Republicans. They're going to go along with scorched earth during the early days of the Clinton presidency the same way they went along with endorsing the scorched-earth candidacy of Donald Trump after he won the nomination. Call their value system "personal survival over country."
holgate: "The "GOP long game" discussion is worth having, but it sometimes neglects that the executive branch has agency, and the Dems know what bit them in 2010, and Obama is going to make a post-presidential push on redistricting and fair elections."
Obama made the mistake for far too long of thinking that it was still 1970, and that we could bring reasonable members of both parties together and accomplish something. It took him much much too long to move into Fuck It Mode.
HRC is not going to do that. If she faces a GOP House (or God forbid, Senate), she knows exactly what shit she will face - heck, Chaffetz just told her. And she's put up with a couple of decades of it already. She's not going to waste any time holding out the olive branch. She's going to identify what she can do as the executive, and do that, with a side of trying to flip Congress.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [28 favorites]
Obama made the mistake for far too long of thinking that it was still 1970, and that we could bring reasonable members of both parties together and accomplish something. It took him much much too long to move into Fuck It Mode.
HRC is not going to do that. If she faces a GOP House (or God forbid, Senate), she knows exactly what shit she will face - heck, Chaffetz just told her. And she's put up with a couple of decades of it already. She's not going to waste any time holding out the olive branch. She's going to identify what she can do as the executive, and do that, with a side of trying to flip Congress.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [28 favorites]
Wikipedia says that Russia sold Alaska to the US way back when. Where can I read about the Russian expansionist point of view? How do they legitimate their present claim?
posted by Coventry at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by Coventry at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2016
They can see it from their house.
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [60 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [60 favorites]
The news media is having a lot of fun with the Biden clip about the gym today. It's like they have forgotten that Biden once threatened to shoot his own running mate over the 2nd amendment.
posted by xyzzy at 11:44 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by xyzzy at 11:44 AM on October 26, 2016
According to YouGov 81% of people say they wish the election was over already. The crosstabs indicate that people "enjoying the election" are disproportionately male, white, under 30, and presumably having a great time tweeting pepe gas chamber memes at reporters.
posted by theodolite at 11:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:44 AM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
Yeah, the pay cap is a thing.
We have certain key people with special qualifications get near the pay cap once in a while, but for the most part can just substitute someone who's not as close to it. If the USSS is working so much overtime that they're completely out of qualified people who can get overtime under the cap, they need to start reconsidering how much stuff they're doing or their staffing/qualification planning skill.
I mean, they knew they would have to staff both candidates 24/7 right? Which part of this was a surprise?
posted by ctmf at 11:45 AM on October 26, 2016
We have certain key people with special qualifications get near the pay cap once in a while, but for the most part can just substitute someone who's not as close to it. If the USSS is working so much overtime that they're completely out of qualified people who can get overtime under the cap, they need to start reconsidering how much stuff they're doing or their staffing/qualification planning skill.
I mean, they knew they would have to staff both candidates 24/7 right? Which part of this was a surprise?
posted by ctmf at 11:45 AM on October 26, 2016
I mean, they knew they would have to staff both candidates 24/7 right? Which part of this was a surprise?
The part where they haven't been able to hire anyone because the GOP Congress won't approve any spending bill that doesn't include trebuchets for launching immigrants back across the border.
posted by Etrigan at 11:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [49 favorites]
The part where they haven't been able to hire anyone because the GOP Congress won't approve any spending bill that doesn't include trebuchets for launching immigrants back across the border.
posted by Etrigan at 11:48 AM on October 26, 2016 [49 favorites]
When asked what Bill will be doing as "first man", she mentioned she asked him to work with areas that have been left behind and she brought up Indian (Native American) reservations. That's damn good, even if she said "Indian".
Several others have chimed in, but I'll also support that there isn't a universal "PC" term anymore. My work includes a lot of collaboration with different tribes and, as the link above demonstrated, there isn't a consensus on a collective noun. Native American came into use when "Indian" was seen as pejorative, but we've seen a trend back to American Indian and more recently indigenous peoples (capitalized or not). When possible, it is best to just ask the people in question what they want to be called. Usually their preference is to be identified by tribal affiliation, particularly when you are dealing with just one tribe (for example, if you are talking about the Standing Rock Sioux , you would call them the Standing Rock Sioux and not generic Native Americans).
posted by Preserver at 11:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
Several others have chimed in, but I'll also support that there isn't a universal "PC" term anymore. My work includes a lot of collaboration with different tribes and, as the link above demonstrated, there isn't a consensus on a collective noun. Native American came into use when "Indian" was seen as pejorative, but we've seen a trend back to American Indian and more recently indigenous peoples (capitalized or not). When possible, it is best to just ask the people in question what they want to be called. Usually their preference is to be identified by tribal affiliation, particularly when you are dealing with just one tribe (for example, if you are talking about the Standing Rock Sioux , you would call them the Standing Rock Sioux and not generic Native Americans).
posted by Preserver at 11:49 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
The Trump surrogate drumbeat today has been "why are we getting called stupid for the DC Trump Hotel trip when nobody's making fun of Hillary for going to an Adele concert?"
I beg of them to please stop this super-effective strategy!!! Please, please don't continue to tell people the candidate who gets made fun of for being all-work-no-fun went to see one of the most uniformly popular entertainers in current popular culture on the night before her birthday!!!
posted by sallybrown at 11:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
I beg of them to please stop this super-effective strategy!!! Please, please don't continue to tell people the candidate who gets made fun of for being all-work-no-fun went to see one of the most uniformly popular entertainers in current popular culture on the night before her birthday!!!
posted by sallybrown at 11:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
> Pass gas, LH. Took me a minute.
Thanks! (And now that I understand: not only is it "too pedestalizling," it's ridiculous.)
> I'm still not over the fact that Jared Kushner's paper published a column about Russia taking over Alaska. Is this truly a cultural belief in Russia?
No. I've been studying Russia for decades and this is the first I've heard of it. The Kuriles, yes, that's an issue.
posted by languagehat at 11:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thanks! (And now that I understand: not only is it "too pedestalizling," it's ridiculous.)
> I'm still not over the fact that Jared Kushner's paper published a column about Russia taking over Alaska. Is this truly a cultural belief in Russia?
No. I've been studying Russia for decades and this is the first I've heard of it. The Kuriles, yes, that's an issue.
posted by languagehat at 11:52 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Trump surrogate drumbeat today has been 'why are we getting called stupid for the DC Trump Hotel trip when nobody's making fun of Hillary for going to an Adele concert?'
Because you're losing.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
@ABCLiz
"She has been tracking Adele's tour very closely," @jmpalmieri says. "Everything I know about Adele I know from Hillary Clinton."
Lol, what a dork.
posted by acidic at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
"She has been tracking Adele's tour very closely," @jmpalmieri says. "Everything I know about Adele I know from Hillary Clinton."
Lol, what a dork.
posted by acidic at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
The probability of Clinton winning has dropped down to only 98% on PEC and I am having a minor freakout.
I think I need a break.
posted by kyrademon at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think I need a break.
posted by kyrademon at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
The promo image for the Trump/Citizen Kane post is pretty wonderful.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:58 AM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
The part where they haven't been able to hire anyone
Then they need to start shedding projects or contracting. Congress needs to understand, you don't give the resources, the work can't get done. Nobody should be working for free, in fact, it's against the law. That's why people can't voluntarily come in just enough to keep the wheels from falling off when we shutdown the government with furloughs. We're not paying you, so go home.
posted by ctmf at 12:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Then they need to start shedding projects or contracting. Congress needs to understand, you don't give the resources, the work can't get done. Nobody should be working for free, in fact, it's against the law. That's why people can't voluntarily come in just enough to keep the wheels from falling off when we shutdown the government with furloughs. We're not paying you, so go home.
posted by ctmf at 12:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Trump surrogate drumbeat today has been 'why are we getting called stupid for the DC Trump Hotel trip when nobody's making fun of Hillary for going to an Adele concert?'
Obviously a concert in one of the biggest cities in a tightly-contested swing state is a yuge waste of time compared to opening a hotel already beset by legal problems in the least likely place to vote for a conservative President (and in fact has not done so in modern history).
posted by zombieflanders at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Obviously a concert in one of the biggest cities in a tightly-contested swing state is a yuge waste of time compared to opening a hotel already beset by legal problems in the least likely place to vote for a conservative President (and in fact has not done so in modern history).
posted by zombieflanders at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Congress needs to understand
I think you've touched on the problem here.
posted by Etrigan at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [67 favorites]
I think you've touched on the problem here.
posted by Etrigan at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [67 favorites]
So how does the Secret Service normally deal with the huge increase in demand for protective details every four years? Do they hire new officers for a two-year stint, and the freeze didn't account for that?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2016
Agreed, but hiding the consequences from them isn't helping them understand.
posted by ctmf at 12:02 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by ctmf at 12:02 PM on October 26, 2016
‘Blacks For Trump’ Supporter A Former Member Of Violent Cult
According to the Miami New Times, the man, who also goes by the names Maurice Woodside and Michael Symonette, was a former member of the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult. In 1990, the group’s charismatic leader, Hulon Mitchell Jr., was charged for conspiracy to murder. He required inductees to kill people to gain entry to the cult.posted by tonycpsu at 12:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Though “Michael” was charged for allegedly conspiring in two murders and his brother testified that he stuck a sharpened stick into one man’s eyeball, he was not convicted. In the following years, according to the New Times, he was charged with other crimes including grand theft auto, carrying a weapon onto a plane, and threatening a law enforcement officer. He was never convicted.
The newspaper reported that “Michael” made a name for himself in the Miami area in recent years as a virulently anti-gay, anti-liberal preacher who has opened a rally for Rick Santorum and earned praise from Glenn Beck.
Trae Crowder brings it, as always. Roughly transcribed by me for your enjoyment:
...
"It's almost over, so I wanted to take a moment to address all my fellow rednecks out there, and ask them, plead with them:
Don't do it y'all.
Don't vote for that anus-mouthed, leathery tangerine.
Don't do it. And look, I'm not telling you to vote for Hillary... I mean I'm going to, but I get it, Ok. You blame her, her husband, her party for your job leaving for Mexico and you're convinced liberal America don't give a shit about you.
And you know what, you're right. They don't.
In the minds of many Americans rednecks exist only as a punchline, a scapegoat, or, as in the case with Trump, a resource to be exploited. Fuck 'em. Don't vote for 'um if you don't want to. They ain't earned your support.
But he. ain't. either. He ain't earned any of this.
If y'all really think some blue-blood, born with a silver dildo in his mouth, goddamn Yankee (no offense to some of y'all) has any idea about the struggles of our people, about what we go through, then y'all are more desperate to believe in something than I dared to think."
And look, I know, i know he looks you in the eye and promises he's gonna go get your job back and put you back to work and I know that's what really matters to you. But I also know that he is full. of. shit.
And yes, they all are, but he is uniquely dangerous in his incompetence. He has no idea how to deliver on any of the promises that he's made to you and he only made 'em in the first place 'cuz he knows that's what you want to hear. He is using you. Don't let him get away with that shit.
Look, it's like this: Think of your football team. Imagine you've been bad for years and years. Not a stretch in my case*. Now imagine they fire the coach and come to you as a fan base and they say,
"Look, you gonna love this new guy. He promises we gonna win twice as many games, we gonna score all kinda points, he gonna go get our touchdowns back from the Mexicans. It's gonna be awesome."
You'd be like "Hell yea, that's what i'm talking about. So... where's he coming from? Where'd he coach at before this?"
And they're like, "Oh actually... he's not ... a football coach. He's uh.. he's a European soccer coach with the emotional intelligence and fingers of a fucking six year old. Also, he rapes!"
You'd be like, "What the fuck? No!? Why would we do that?! That's... redic... that would be an embarrassment to our program, to everything we stand for. No."
Wouldn't you? Well, this is exactly like that, only instead of touchdowns and conference championships it's you and your family's future at stake.
And deep down, you know I'm right. You know that he's unfit to lead. So don't do it.
I'm not telling you to stay at home. It's our right and duty as Americans to vote, Ok. But if you can't stomach throwing one for Hillary then go third party, write in Mickey Mouse, hell write in me. But do not vote for Donald Trump.
I love y'all like chicken. See you on the other side."
*I think Trae is from, and likely pulls for, Tennessee, a state that has a football team that my team has stomped for more years than I can nearly count. Roll Tide.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [51 favorites]
...
"It's almost over, so I wanted to take a moment to address all my fellow rednecks out there, and ask them, plead with them:
Don't do it y'all.
Don't vote for that anus-mouthed, leathery tangerine.
Don't do it. And look, I'm not telling you to vote for Hillary... I mean I'm going to, but I get it, Ok. You blame her, her husband, her party for your job leaving for Mexico and you're convinced liberal America don't give a shit about you.
And you know what, you're right. They don't.
In the minds of many Americans rednecks exist only as a punchline, a scapegoat, or, as in the case with Trump, a resource to be exploited. Fuck 'em. Don't vote for 'um if you don't want to. They ain't earned your support.
But he. ain't. either. He ain't earned any of this.
If y'all really think some blue-blood, born with a silver dildo in his mouth, goddamn Yankee (no offense to some of y'all) has any idea about the struggles of our people, about what we go through, then y'all are more desperate to believe in something than I dared to think."
And look, I know, i know he looks you in the eye and promises he's gonna go get your job back and put you back to work and I know that's what really matters to you. But I also know that he is full. of. shit.
And yes, they all are, but he is uniquely dangerous in his incompetence. He has no idea how to deliver on any of the promises that he's made to you and he only made 'em in the first place 'cuz he knows that's what you want to hear. He is using you. Don't let him get away with that shit.
Look, it's like this: Think of your football team. Imagine you've been bad for years and years. Not a stretch in my case*. Now imagine they fire the coach and come to you as a fan base and they say,
"Look, you gonna love this new guy. He promises we gonna win twice as many games, we gonna score all kinda points, he gonna go get our touchdowns back from the Mexicans. It's gonna be awesome."
You'd be like "Hell yea, that's what i'm talking about. So... where's he coming from? Where'd he coach at before this?"
And they're like, "Oh actually... he's not ... a football coach. He's uh.. he's a European soccer coach with the emotional intelligence and fingers of a fucking six year old. Also, he rapes!"
You'd be like, "What the fuck? No!? Why would we do that?! That's... redic... that would be an embarrassment to our program, to everything we stand for. No."
Wouldn't you? Well, this is exactly like that, only instead of touchdowns and conference championships it's you and your family's future at stake.
And deep down, you know I'm right. You know that he's unfit to lead. So don't do it.
I'm not telling you to stay at home. It's our right and duty as Americans to vote, Ok. But if you can't stomach throwing one for Hillary then go third party, write in Mickey Mouse, hell write in me. But do not vote for Donald Trump.
I love y'all like chicken. See you on the other side."
*I think Trae is from, and likely pulls for, Tennessee, a state that has a football team that my team has stomped for more years than I can nearly count. Roll Tide.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [51 favorites]
Then they need to start shedding projects or contracting. Congress needs to understand, you don't give the resources, the work can't get done. Nobody should be working for free, in fact, it's against the law.
It's not like the agencies haven't been telling them. Congress DGAF. It has impacted agency work for years and years. Congress. doesn't. care. And because people talk about federal workers as lazy bums and grasping takers, and about DC in general as the hellhole where only evil politicians live, and about government agencies/entities as wasteful people lighting money on fire, the rest of the country doesn't care much either. And if, god forbid, something happened due to short-staffing in the Secret Service, they would blame the Service.
posted by sallybrown at 12:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [41 favorites]
It's not like the agencies haven't been telling them. Congress DGAF. It has impacted agency work for years and years. Congress. doesn't. care. And because people talk about federal workers as lazy bums and grasping takers, and about DC in general as the hellhole where only evil politicians live, and about government agencies/entities as wasteful people lighting money on fire, the rest of the country doesn't care much either. And if, god forbid, something happened due to short-staffing in the Secret Service, they would blame the Service.
posted by sallybrown at 12:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [41 favorites]
Agreed, but hiding the consequences from them isn't helping them understand.
You think they haven't been told? That the Secret Service specifically and the Department of Homeland Security generally haven't been very patiently briefing these things? That Ryan and McConnell have somehow missed the idea that if you don't fund the government, the government doesn't work? It's their fucking rallying cry, and assigning even the slightest shred of blame for this to the Secret Service is quite literally victim-blaming.
posted by Etrigan at 12:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [51 favorites]
You think they haven't been told? That the Secret Service specifically and the Department of Homeland Security generally haven't been very patiently briefing these things? That Ryan and McConnell have somehow missed the idea that if you don't fund the government, the government doesn't work? It's their fucking rallying cry, and assigning even the slightest shred of blame for this to the Secret Service is quite literally victim-blaming.
posted by Etrigan at 12:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [51 favorites]
Then they need to start shedding projects or contracting. Congress needs to understand, you don't give the resources, the work can't get done.The USSS already uses contractors, but the vetting process for actual employees takes over a year. You can't just pluck a protective detail guy off the street.
posted by xyzzy at 12:08 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not like the agencies haven't been telling them. Congress DGAF. It has impacted agency work for years and years. Congress. doesn't. care. And because people talk about federal workers as lazy bums and grasping takers, and about DC in general as the hellhole where only evil politicians live, and about government agencies/entities as wasteful people lighting money on fire, the rest of the country doesn't care much either. And if, god forbid, something happened due to short-staffing in the Secret Service, they would blame the Service.
Remember when Congress slashed funding for Embassy security and then blamed Hillary Clinton for the Benghazi deaths?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [97 favorites]
Remember when Congress slashed funding for Embassy security and then blamed Hillary Clinton for the Benghazi deaths?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [97 favorites]
An O Positive shout-out? In a comment referencing the fact that the Replacements are one of our soon-to-be VP's favorite bands? I approve of this conversation.
posted by Lyme Drop at 12:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 12:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Replacements
The Carter Family
Dave Matthews Band
Cornershop
Charlie Parker
*Reads top of list* "Anybody who loves the Replacements is MY VP!"
*Sees DMB on list* "Psh, dude prolly only likes post-Bob Replacements then"
*Sees last item on list* "WORD TO THA BIRD HE'S MY VP"
posted by Rykey at 12:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
The Carter Family
Dave Matthews Band
Cornershop
Charlie Parker
*Reads top of list* "Anybody who loves the Replacements is MY VP!"
*Sees DMB on list* "Psh, dude prolly only likes post-Bob Replacements then"
*Sees last item on list* "WORD TO THA BIRD HE'S MY VP"
posted by Rykey at 12:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
And let me broaden that to - when you read something in the news and think "why did the agency settle that case instead of pursue it? why didn't the agency catch that problem? why didn't the agency investigate this before it got so far? why does it take so long to fulfill a FOIA request, or make a formal decision, or publish guidance? why doesn't anyone appear to be steering the ship on this project? where are our regulators? why are our agencies reactive instead of proactive?" - consider whether at least part of the problem is the agencies don't have enough time and enough people to do all of the work they NEED to do.
I'm not saying agencies are perfect - they aren't, at all. But politicians are saying "these agency people aren't as effective as the private sector!" and then gutting budgets in a way that makes it so. And then more people pipe up and say "wow that agency really failed to fix X problem, why are we continuing to spend money on that?" and then the budgets get slashed again.
There's only so much a certain number of people can actually do in a day.
posted by sallybrown at 12:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [40 favorites]
I'm not saying agencies are perfect - they aren't, at all. But politicians are saying "these agency people aren't as effective as the private sector!" and then gutting budgets in a way that makes it so. And then more people pipe up and say "wow that agency really failed to fix X problem, why are we continuing to spend money on that?" and then the budgets get slashed again.
There's only so much a certain number of people can actually do in a day.
posted by sallybrown at 12:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [40 favorites]
Because while Trump seems to think that Citizen Kane is about a great man who happened to fail—whose romantic relationships were less than ideal and whose political career never panned out—he overlooks that it is also, and more importantly, a condemnation of Kane’s character. He somehow misses the central narrative about a modern Faust—a man who, in pursuit of money, fame, and power, ends up losing his soul.
That's a nice narrow reading of the film to suit Trump's story. I'm glad dude got an article out of it even if it is a halfass condensement of a much more complex work. Whatever sells man.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's a nice narrow reading of the film to suit Trump's story. I'm glad dude got an article out of it even if it is a halfass condensement of a much more complex work. Whatever sells man.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Libertarian VP Candidate Admits Defeat, Tells Voters To Pick Clinton Over Trump:
Lol sent this to the work friend I drove to the polls yesterday who voted Johnson to give him shit and he didn't know who Weld was.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [42 favorites]
Lol sent this to the work friend I drove to the polls yesterday who voted Johnson to give him shit and he didn't know who Weld was.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [42 favorites]
Evan McMullin Isn’t Just Running For President — He’s Literally Building A New Party
posted by octothorpe at 12:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump is less Charles Foster Kane and more belligerent frozen pea huckster verbally abusing the skilled craftspeople around him who are just trying to do their jobs.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:26 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:26 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
And if, god forbid, something happened due to short-staffing in the Secret Service, they would blame the Service.
Intending no more disrespect to the Secret Service than necessary, but in the event something happened it would probably be hard to tell whether it happened because of short-staffing, or just because the bad guy got lucky, or because the USSS people were busy doing something embarrassing. Because having your agents smash into the White House grounds while drunk, etc etc, can do that to an agency.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Intending no more disrespect to the Secret Service than necessary, but in the event something happened it would probably be hard to tell whether it happened because of short-staffing, or just because the bad guy got lucky, or because the USSS people were busy doing something embarrassing. Because having your agents smash into the White House grounds while drunk, etc etc, can do that to an agency.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trae Crowder brings it, as always.
"If y'all really think some blue-blood, born with a silver dildo in his mouth, goddamn Yankee (no offense to some of y'all) has any idea about the struggles of our people, about what we go through, then y'all are more desperate to believe in something than I dared to think.""
He sounds like a fucking moron who's still fighting the Civil War in his head.
posted by zarq at 12:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
"If y'all really think some blue-blood, born with a silver dildo in his mouth, goddamn Yankee (no offense to some of y'all) has any idea about the struggles of our people, about what we go through, then y'all are more desperate to believe in something than I dared to think.""
He sounds like a fucking moron who's still fighting the Civil War in his head.
posted by zarq at 12:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Kaine likes Cornershop? That is some good shit
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
He sounds like a fucking moron who's still fighting the Civil War in his head.
Really? Have you listened to him speak?
posted by eyesontheroad at 12:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
Really? Have you listened to him speak?
posted by eyesontheroad at 12:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
Thank you for introducing me to Liberal Redneck! Make America White Again?
"Make American white again"? When was America white? When white people first came to this country they had to kill most of the red people just to make room for the black people they were plannin' on subjugatin'. This country ain't never been all white.Black Lives Matter
I know it's been a minute but damn I've been busier than Donald Trump at a Fuck Shit Up Conference so I apologize.posted by kirkaracha at 12:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [58 favorites]
He sounds like a fucking moron who's still fighting the Civil War in his head.
Except he's not, and he isn't, at all. Read his new book The Liberal Redneck Manifesto: Draggin' Dixie Outta the Dark (or just watch more of his videos) for background.
posted by Rykey at 12:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
Except he's not, and he isn't, at all. Read his new book The Liberal Redneck Manifesto: Draggin' Dixie Outta the Dark (or just watch more of his videos) for background.
posted by Rykey at 12:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
Really? Have you listened to him speak?
I know what I just read.
posted by zarq at 12:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know what I just read.
posted by zarq at 12:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Atom Eyes: Trump is less Charles Foster Kane and more belligerent frozen pea huckster verbally abusing the skilled craftspeople around him who are just trying to do their jobs.
Except he's also surrounded himself by other hucksters and shysters who are keen on bilking everyone they can, all the while shouting vitriol and supporting others to do the same.
Analogies are tough.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2016
Except he's also surrounded himself by other hucksters and shysters who are keen on bilking everyone they can, all the while shouting vitriol and supporting others to do the same.
Analogies are tough.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2016
zarq, it sounds like he may be trying to establish credentials in a group where dissing Yankees is popular, so that he can get across an unpopular but important message without being immediately dismissed as a liberal tool.
posted by Coventry at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
He sounds like a fucking moron who's still fighting the Civil War in his head.
I mean, I don't expect you to watch all his videos but that's very much missing what The Liberal Redneck is about. Are you even trying?
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
I mean, I don't expect you to watch all his videos but that's very much missing what The Liberal Redneck is about. Are you even trying?
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
So expect the worst from congressional Republicans.
I'mma file this thinkpiece next to the ones for "fire hot," thanks.
posted by phearlez at 12:40 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'mma file this thinkpiece next to the ones for "fire hot," thanks.
posted by phearlez at 12:40 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean, I don't expect you to watch all his videos but that's very much missing what The Liberal Redneck is about. Are you even trying?
I'm presuming zarq is helping underscore the in the minds of many Americans rednecks exist only as a punchline, a scapegoat section of the piece via some sort of performance art.
posted by phearlez at 12:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
I'm presuming zarq is helping underscore the in the minds of many Americans rednecks exist only as a punchline, a scapegoat section of the piece via some sort of performance art.
posted by phearlez at 12:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
Except he's not, and he isn't, at all. Read his new book The Liberal Redneck Manifesto: Draggin' Dixie Outta the Dark (or just watch more of his videos) for background.
OK.
This essay seems really counterproductive to anyone looking to bring blue collar workers out of the dark ages. The Republican argument (for several generations now) has been that they are last hope of the Working White Man. The party that will defend blue collar workers against Democrats. Which is utter horseshit. Republican economic and social policies target the poor and make them poorer. They target the rich and make them richer. They promote racism, xenophobia, sexism and fear of the Other. The issue with Trump isn't that he's out of touch, too wealthy or from New York. It's that he's the predictable end result of decades of racist, woman-hating, scapegoat-pointing, conspiracy theory-soaked Republican rhetoric.
They sustained their power by lying to blue collar workers about who the enemy really was. Trump isn't an outsider. He's the ultimate Republican candidate. And the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.
posted by zarq at 12:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK.
This essay seems really counterproductive to anyone looking to bring blue collar workers out of the dark ages. The Republican argument (for several generations now) has been that they are last hope of the Working White Man. The party that will defend blue collar workers against Democrats. Which is utter horseshit. Republican economic and social policies target the poor and make them poorer. They target the rich and make them richer. They promote racism, xenophobia, sexism and fear of the Other. The issue with Trump isn't that he's out of touch, too wealthy or from New York. It's that he's the predictable end result of decades of racist, woman-hating, scapegoat-pointing, conspiracy theory-soaked Republican rhetoric.
They sustained their power by lying to blue collar workers about who the enemy really was. Trump isn't an outsider. He's the ultimate Republican candidate. And the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.
posted by zarq at 12:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
And honestly, even if Trae was a hick moron that was still fighting the Civil War in his head, it doesn't change the fact that Trump really is a blueblood Yankee born with a silver dildo in his mouth.
posted by teleri025 at 12:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by teleri025 at 12:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
I want to believe. I want to take a deep breath and tell myself "she's got this". Then I do something like go to the grocery store. In the parking lot there are a couple of dudes sitting in a ridiculous giant diesel-powered pickup truck, sporting snarls for anyone who might look in their direction. Snatches of conversation overheard in the store - "beaner", or "Killary". Trump hats on empty heads. 20-somethings giggling about god-knows-what. And I start to think oh god we are so fucked...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Except he's also surrounded himself by other hucksters and shysters who are keen on bilking everyone they can...
Oh, of course. My "skilled craftspeople" was meant to reference the poor souls who work in his hotels and businesses and whatnot—certainly not anyone on his campaign payroll. Analogies are hard!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:45 PM on October 26, 2016
Oh, of course. My "skilled craftspeople" was meant to reference the poor souls who work in his hotels and businesses and whatnot—certainly not anyone on his campaign payroll. Analogies are hard!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:45 PM on October 26, 2016
"Reminder: The Javits Center, where Hillary Clinton is holding her election night party, has a literal glass ceiling" --@SmiloTweets
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
I'm presuming zarq is helping underscore the in the minds of many Americans rednecks exist only as a punchline, a scapegoat section of the piece via some sort of performance art.
No kidding. Well done.
On preview:
Trump isn't an outsider. It's that he's the ultimate Republican candidate. And the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.
I'm a male, partial-redneck from the south and you couldn't get more 'outsider' than fucking Donald Trump as compared to the society I grew up in! That's the whole point Trae Crowder is trying to make and you're missing it altogether because he's not espousing your exact ideas in the exact way you think they should be voiced. You're seriously missing the forest for the trees here. I'm not going to say it's a tone argument but it sure as shit sounds like one.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:48 PM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
No kidding. Well done.
On preview:
Trump isn't an outsider. It's that he's the ultimate Republican candidate. And the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.
I'm a male, partial-redneck from the south and you couldn't get more 'outsider' than fucking Donald Trump as compared to the society I grew up in! That's the whole point Trae Crowder is trying to make and you're missing it altogether because he's not espousing your exact ideas in the exact way you think they should be voiced. You're seriously missing the forest for the trees here. I'm not going to say it's a tone argument but it sure as shit sounds like one.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:48 PM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
Everyone, from Hillary Clinton on down, needs to take a chill pill and relax a little about Russia. The rumors and rhetoric are dangerous, and makes it difficult to focus on some real problem areas, notably the Baltic region.
In the case of Alaska, just because something crawls out of the meme swamp (or from Sputnik, RT or Pravda) doesn't mean it is true.
posted by My Dad at 12:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the case of Alaska, just because something crawls out of the meme swamp (or from Sputnik, RT or Pravda) doesn't mean it is true.
posted by My Dad at 12:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump isn't an outsider. It's that he's the ultimate Republican candidate. And the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.
that's actually what he's trying to tell them. I know the "yankee" stuff chafes, but...sometimes you have to reach people in the place where they are at the moment, you know?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
that's actually what he's trying to tell them. I know the "yankee" stuff chafes, but...sometimes you have to reach people in the place where they are at the moment, you know?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
This essay seems really counterproductive to anyone looking to bring blue collar workers out of the dark ages.
The "essay" is a transcript of the video he made on his back porch, not a WaPo editorial. It's fine if you still hate what he says, but at least try to understand it in its proper context. Crowder's a comedian.
posted by Rykey at 12:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
The "essay" is a transcript of the video he made on his back porch, not a WaPo editorial. It's fine if you still hate what he says, but at least try to understand it in its proper context. Crowder's a comedian.
posted by Rykey at 12:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I want to believe. I want to take a deep breath and tell myself "she's got this".
"She's got it, Mulder" (snaps flipfone)
The issue of voting booth selfies in Michigan is interesting. Not sure how a selfie would break a law but that's that.
posted by clavdivs at 12:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
"She's got it, Mulder" (snaps flipfone)
The issue of voting booth selfies in Michigan is interesting. Not sure how a selfie would break a law but that's that.
posted by clavdivs at 12:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
This essay seems really counterproductive to anyone looking to bring blue collar workers out of the dark ages.
Hey guess what? You're not his target audience.
posted by phearlez at 12:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
Hey guess what? You're not his target audience.
posted by phearlez at 12:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
"Reminder: The Javits Center, where Hillary Clinton is holding her election night party, has a literal glass ceiling" --@SmiloTweetsOoooooooh. I went to a couple of boat shows there. It's an incredible space.
posted by xyzzy at 12:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm a male, partial-redneck from the south and you couldn't get more 'outsider' than fucking Donald Trump as compared to the society I grew up in! That's the whole point Trae Crowder is trying to make and you're missing it altogether because he's not espousing your exact ideas in the exact way you think they should be voiced. You're seriously missing the forest for the trees here. I'm not going to say it's a tone argument but it sure as shit sounds like one.
Seriously. You have to meet people where they are. You can't just stride into a community of people you don't have a thing in common with and haven't spent any time around, and then lecture them into seeing things your way. It doesn't work.
This is a thing we talked about a lot in my anthro classes. The prime example was always female circumcision. If you just show up and say "this is barbaric and we're outlawing it and you are all going to stop immediately," it will not stop. It doesn't matter if you genuinely think it IS barbaric and SHOULD stop immediately - it just plain doesn't work. People keep doing it anyway, illegal or not, and they roll their eyes at the condescending outsiders who thought they could storm in and radically change a culture they know almost nothing about. It takes years of education and in-person work with those communities and advocacy from people within those communities to effect changes in behavior.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [42 favorites]
Seriously. You have to meet people where they are. You can't just stride into a community of people you don't have a thing in common with and haven't spent any time around, and then lecture them into seeing things your way. It doesn't work.
This is a thing we talked about a lot in my anthro classes. The prime example was always female circumcision. If you just show up and say "this is barbaric and we're outlawing it and you are all going to stop immediately," it will not stop. It doesn't matter if you genuinely think it IS barbaric and SHOULD stop immediately - it just plain doesn't work. People keep doing it anyway, illegal or not, and they roll their eyes at the condescending outsiders who thought they could storm in and radically change a culture they know almost nothing about. It takes years of education and in-person work with those communities and advocacy from people within those communities to effect changes in behavior.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [42 favorites]
@GeorgeTakei: People ask why I only tweet criticisms of Trump. "Why don't you go after Hillary?!" they cry. Well, it's simple. I really want her to win.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [76 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [76 favorites]
There's only so much a certain number of people can actually do in a day.
That's the thing. Republicans want the government run like private businesses. Where they squeeze productivity out of people in uncompensated nights and weekends because it is just tacitly understood that things have to be done if you want to keep your job.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 1:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
That's the thing. Republicans want the government run like private businesses. Where they squeeze productivity out of people in uncompensated nights and weekends because it is just tacitly understood that things have to be done if you want to keep your job.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 1:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
In some thread(s) long ago, in a land that seems so far away there was a comment or two that posted a scale for measuring 'evens', as in 'I've reached the top I'm all outta evens.' It seems I did not favourite it and I can't find it. Anyone know where to find this thing.
posted by Jalliah at 1:09 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by Jalliah at 1:09 PM on October 26, 2016
Seriously. You have to meet people where they are. You can't just stride into a community of people you don't have a thing in common with and haven't spent any time around, and then lecture them into seeing things your way. It doesn't work.
True.
Sorry for the derail. Don't mind me. Am in a shit mood today.
posted by zarq at 1:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [34 favorites]
True.
Sorry for the derail. Don't mind me. Am in a shit mood today.
posted by zarq at 1:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [34 favorites]
Hillary Clinton has won the endorsement of Victoria Gotti the widow of notorious gangster John Gotti
posted by humanfont at 1:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 1:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
But politicians are saying "these agency people aren't as effective as the private sector!" and then gutting budgets in a way that makes it so. And then more people pipe up and say "wow that agency really failed to fix X problem, why are we continuing to spend money on that?" and then the budgets get slashed again.
There's only so much a certain number of people can actually do in a day.
This is accurate. And intentional. The entire purpose of the Republican party is to destroy the idea that the government is capable of doing anything at all. Starve the beast is not just a slogan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
There's only so much a certain number of people can actually do in a day.
This is accurate. And intentional. The entire purpose of the Republican party is to destroy the idea that the government is capable of doing anything at all. Starve the beast is not just a slogan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
Could somebody please point me to the tweet where Owen Ellickson's Trump gave Christie the name "Hole"? Or just tell me the etymology? There are so many possibilities to choose from, it's maddening not to know. TIA.
posted by whuppy at 1:35 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by whuppy at 1:35 PM on October 26, 2016
whuppy, I think it's this one from July 19.
posted by infinitewindow at 1:39 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 1:39 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not going to say it's a tone argument but it sure as shit sounds like one.
I think I agree with the point you're making, but my brain exploded trying to calculate the irony level of this sentence.
posted by teraflop at 1:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think I agree with the point you're making, but my brain exploded trying to calculate the irony level of this sentence.
posted by teraflop at 1:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
The probability of Clinton winning has dropped down to only 98% on PEC and I am having a minor freakout.
Jesus Christ, you guys sound like my overbearing parents yelling at me about my 10th grade report card. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER 2 POINTS, MOM!
posted by PlusDistance at 1:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [48 favorites]
Jesus Christ, you guys sound like my overbearing parents yelling at me about my 10th grade report card. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER 2 POINTS, MOM!
posted by PlusDistance at 1:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [48 favorites]
Aaaaaaand, looking at over Crowder's stuff and that book synopsis, i did misread him. Badly. :( I apologize.
posted by zarq at 1:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
posted by zarq at 1:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [52 favorites]
Trump is less Charles Foster Kane and more belligerent frozen pea huckster verbally abusing the skilled craftspeople around him who are just trying to do their jobs.
posted by Atom Eyes
What AE is referring to (BRILLIANT!)
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes
What AE is referring to (BRILLIANT!)
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Huh. When I went through the timeline and that was the first reference I found, I thought I had missed something. Thanks, infinitewindow!
posted by whuppy at 1:48 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by whuppy at 1:48 PM on October 26, 2016
Warning: don't read while eating. Donald Trump Joked He and Daughter Ivanka Had 'Sex' in Common in 2013 Interview. The headline is sort of, but really not that, misleading.
(No, I do not know why People Magazine thinks we care how old Wendy Williams is.)
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on October 26, 2016
Uh, awkward. Donald Trump joked that he had "sex" in common with his daughter Ivanka Trump in a recently resurfaced, cringeworthy February 2013 interview on The Wendy Williams Show, which you can watch in the clip above.The article goes on to rehash other creepy things Trump has said about his daughter.
During a Q&A game called Fave Five, host Wendy Williams asked Ivanka, now 34, about her favorite thing she and her father had in common. "Either real estate or golf," she innocently replied.
Williams, 52, then asked Donald, 70, the same question, prompting an unexpected response. "Well, I was going to say sex, but I can't relate that to her," he said, pointing to his eldest daughter, who was visibly mortified by the response.
(No, I do not know why People Magazine thinks we care how old Wendy Williams is.)
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on October 26, 2016
George W. Bush: "America, don't let that sack of rotten sweet potatoes anywhere near the White House." [fake]
posted by Pendragon at 1:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 1:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump Modeled His Life on Cinematic Loser Charles Foster Kane
(Trump is lying on his bed, dying. He drops his snowglobe.)
TRUMP
(gasping)
The best sled...Huge sled...The hugest...All the best sleds...You...wouldn't...believe...
posted by PlusDistance at 1:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [68 favorites]
(Trump is lying on his bed, dying. He drops his snowglobe.)
TRUMP
(gasping)
The best sled...Huge sled...The hugest...All the best sleds...You...wouldn't...believe...
posted by PlusDistance at 1:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [68 favorites]
Jalliah: The "Even" Advisory System
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
HA! I got AtomEyes' reference, but from it popping up in a The Critic episode. (In which Welles is voiced by Maurice LaMarche, who also voiced... The Brain.)> Trump is less Charles Foster Kane and more belligerent frozen pea huckster verbally abusing the skilled craftspeople around him who are just trying to do their jobs.> What AE is referring to (BRILLIANT!)
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Diamond Joe does a burnout in his '67 Corvette Stingray
posted by PenDevil at 2:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hillary's (69) and mine (55)! I'm goin' out for breakfast with my first-ever senior discount. Suck it, losers.
Happy birthday FelliniBlank (and Hillary too)! Today is my birthday too (not quite ready for the senior discount, but getting closer)
posted by photo guy at 2:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Happy birthday FelliniBlank (and Hillary too)! Today is my birthday too (not quite ready for the senior discount, but getting closer)
posted by photo guy at 2:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
I think I agree with the point you're making, but my brain exploded trying to calculate the irony level of this sentence.
Sorry, as Jalliah mentioned, my "evens" meter was pegged on E.
Aaaaaaand, looking at over Crowder's stuff and that book synopsis, i did misread him. Badly. :( I apologize.
De nada, thanks for giving him a fair shot. I just get defensive because, as Trae said in one of his videos, all to often I feel like I'm going crazy when people dismiss ideas simply when they "hear my accent and think I'm about to rip my shoes off and start throwing raccoons through trailer windows."
It's tiresome and it's so, so refreshing to hear someone with a southern accent, and a deep one at that, speaking sense and truth instead of bigotry and hate and vitriol and various and sundry other 'despicable' things. So, I get defensive and forget that, taken piecemeal, he does tend towards the crass side and is easy to misquote/misunderstand. But, like Carlin, I think he has a brilliance that, when given a fair shot, is hard to deny or miss.
Again, thanks for revisiting his work.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
Sorry, as Jalliah mentioned, my "evens" meter was pegged on E.
Aaaaaaand, looking at over Crowder's stuff and that book synopsis, i did misread him. Badly. :( I apologize.
De nada, thanks for giving him a fair shot. I just get defensive because, as Trae said in one of his videos, all to often I feel like I'm going crazy when people dismiss ideas simply when they "hear my accent and think I'm about to rip my shoes off and start throwing raccoons through trailer windows."
It's tiresome and it's so, so refreshing to hear someone with a southern accent, and a deep one at that, speaking sense and truth instead of bigotry and hate and vitriol and various and sundry other 'despicable' things. So, I get defensive and forget that, taken piecemeal, he does tend towards the crass side and is easy to misquote/misunderstand. But, like Carlin, I think he has a brilliance that, when given a fair shot, is hard to deny or miss.
Again, thanks for revisiting his work.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
You know, I saw that "I was going to say sex" thing a while back, and I couldn't even think of a plausible explanation for that comment, and still can't. What joke did he think he was making? This is an actual question, if anyone can interpret.
posted by HotToddy at 2:15 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 2:15 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is an actual question, if anyone can interpret.
The question (at least as written), is about a favorite thing that [Ivanka] and her father had in common. So, something like this?
The question (at least as written), is about a favorite thing that [Ivanka] and her father had in common. So, something like this?
WILLIAMS: What is your favorite thing...posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:20 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
TRUMP (V.O.): Sex!
WILLIAMS: that you and your father share?
TRUMP (V.O.): Not sex! Not sex!
You know, I saw that "I was going to say sex" thing a while back, and I couldn't even think of a plausible explanation for that comment, and still can't. What joke did he think he was making? This is an actual question, if anyone can interpret.
Well the charitable interpretation is that he was making a joke about them both liking sex a lot and therefore that's what they have in common but with their own sets of separate people and that he has just got the worst sense of humor.
Less charitable are creepier versions of the same thing but with him thinking about in terms of attraction to her in particular.
Regardless it's just horrible that your Dad would say such a thing.
posted by Jalliah at 2:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well the charitable interpretation is that he was making a joke about them both liking sex a lot and therefore that's what they have in common but with their own sets of separate people and that he has just got the worst sense of humor.
Less charitable are creepier versions of the same thing but with him thinking about in terms of attraction to her in particular.
Regardless it's just horrible that your Dad would say such a thing.
posted by Jalliah at 2:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
> "Jesus Christ, you guys sound like my overbearing parents yelling at me about my 10th grade report card."
I am aware that I am being insane.
posted by kyrademon at 2:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
I am aware that I am being insane.
posted by kyrademon at 2:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Just discovering Trae here and love him so far. This BLM video seems like a good companion piece to the recent Black Jeopardy skit.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
You know, I saw that "I was going to say sex" thing a while back, and I couldn't even think of a plausible explanation for that comment, and still can't. What joke did he think he was making? This is an actual question, if anyone can interpret.
I think you just have to Trump's Razor it. He thinks about sex a lot (as evidence, I submit pretty much his entire personal history). He thinks his daughter is sexually attractive (as evidence, I submit the several other instances where he's said as much in public). He was asked about something he and his daughter like, so he said the first thing that came to mind. I don't think there needs to be any more depth to it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think you just have to Trump's Razor it. He thinks about sex a lot (as evidence, I submit pretty much his entire personal history). He thinks his daughter is sexually attractive (as evidence, I submit the several other instances where he's said as much in public). He was asked about something he and his daughter like, so he said the first thing that came to mind. I don't think there needs to be any more depth to it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't get the impression that Trump thinks much. I think he just reacts. He got as far as "your favorite thing," thought "SEX" was the best answer, and when he heard that she was actually asking about Ivanka, he couldn't think a way out, so he just spurted out his intellectual dilemma.
posted by Mchelly at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
You know, I saw that "I was going to say sex" thing a while back, and I couldn't even think of a plausible explanation for that comment, and still can't.
My guess is that he's trying to indicate that they both have a strong sex drive or derive a lot of enjoyment from it; that is, it is not having sex with each other, but that they both enjoy sex with their respective partners or others, whatever.
Which is fine, whatever, I really don't care to know that much about the sex drive of other people unless they happen to be my partner. But there's reasons why it's a hard statement to parse. First, this isn't a statement you tend to make in referencing a commonality between yourself and another person in an interview (unless it is your sex partner and you're being interviewed for an adult publication, maybe?); and you especially don't make it reference to one of your children. It goes beyond socially awkward into a strange territory that I don't understand about being an "alpha male" I guess; I'm sure Trump thinks it is a perfectly fine thing to say about his daughter.
posted by nubs at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
My guess is that he's trying to indicate that they both have a strong sex drive or derive a lot of enjoyment from it; that is, it is not having sex with each other, but that they both enjoy sex with their respective partners or others, whatever.
Which is fine, whatever, I really don't care to know that much about the sex drive of other people unless they happen to be my partner. But there's reasons why it's a hard statement to parse. First, this isn't a statement you tend to make in referencing a commonality between yourself and another person in an interview (unless it is your sex partner and you're being interviewed for an adult publication, maybe?); and you especially don't make it reference to one of your children. It goes beyond socially awkward into a strange territory that I don't understand about being an "alpha male" I guess; I'm sure Trump thinks it is a perfectly fine thing to say about his daughter.
posted by nubs at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
On preview, what Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug said.
posted by Mchelly at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by Mchelly at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2016
Nick Cohen: Why Trump Is Beyond Satire.
"Saturday Night Live unconsciously admitted the limits of satire in Kate McKinnon’s portrayal of Hillary Clinton. It made a couple of good cracks about her awkwardness and sheer inadequacy as a politician. But the real joke was the show’s gleeful Hillary displaying how immensely grateful she was to the Republican party for putting up Donald Trump, the one candidate she could beat. What is it you admire about Trump, she was asked at one point. “I do like how generous he is,” the spoof Clinton said. “Just last Friday he handed me this election.” The laughter that followed was more a sigh of relief than a guffaw, snigger or howl. Of course, Trump would lose. Of course, everything would be all right in the end. One day it won’t be. One day in America, Britain or France a cleaned-up Trump will run. He or she will be less openly racist — a Marine rather than a Jean-Marie Le Pen. If he is a sexual predator, it will be less obvious. Women won’t be able to tell exactly what he is with one glance at his piggy eyes. When they run, laughter won’t stop them or even hurt them. You won’t be able to joke about them. All you will be able to do is put aside the jokes and the parodies, wipe that stupid grin from your face, and fight them."
posted by effbot at 2:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
"Saturday Night Live unconsciously admitted the limits of satire in Kate McKinnon’s portrayal of Hillary Clinton. It made a couple of good cracks about her awkwardness and sheer inadequacy as a politician. But the real joke was the show’s gleeful Hillary displaying how immensely grateful she was to the Republican party for putting up Donald Trump, the one candidate she could beat. What is it you admire about Trump, she was asked at one point. “I do like how generous he is,” the spoof Clinton said. “Just last Friday he handed me this election.” The laughter that followed was more a sigh of relief than a guffaw, snigger or howl. Of course, Trump would lose. Of course, everything would be all right in the end. One day it won’t be. One day in America, Britain or France a cleaned-up Trump will run. He or she will be less openly racist — a Marine rather than a Jean-Marie Le Pen. If he is a sexual predator, it will be less obvious. Women won’t be able to tell exactly what he is with one glance at his piggy eyes. When they run, laughter won’t stop them or even hurt them. You won’t be able to joke about them. All you will be able to do is put aside the jokes and the parodies, wipe that stupid grin from your face, and fight them."
posted by effbot at 2:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
He's not tripped up by the question, he's doing the "make a sex-adjacent comment to someone you can't directly proposition for sex" thing that guys do. You know, as one does to a co-worker or roommate or your friend's S.O. where it's already creepy and inappropriate, but this is Trump, he takes it next level
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
For "some reason" Gen. Joe Dunford (19th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the principal military advisor to the President of the United States and the Secretary of Defense) has seen fit to pen an article entitled Upholding our Oath, where he addresses USA's armed forces:
as our country again prepares for a peaceful transfer of power to a new administration, I write to share my views regarding our mutual obligations as military professionals and rights as citizens during this election season.
posted by awfurby at 2:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
as our country again prepares for a peaceful transfer of power to a new administration, I write to share my views regarding our mutual obligations as military professionals and rights as citizens during this election season.
posted by awfurby at 2:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
All you will be able to do is put aside the jokes and the parodies, wipe that stupid grin from your face, and fight them."
LIBERALS: Hey all you guys with "the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of tyrants" bumper stickers this is it, this is your moment
GUN GUY 1: Nah
GUN GUY 2: We like this one
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
LIBERALS: Hey all you guys with "the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of tyrants" bumper stickers this is it, this is your moment
GUN GUY 1: Nah
GUN GUY 2: We like this one
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
he just spurted out his intellectual dilemma
A reasonable synopsis of Trump's life.
posted by MetalFingerz at 2:34 PM on October 26, 2016
A reasonable synopsis of Trump's life.
posted by MetalFingerz at 2:34 PM on October 26, 2016
Let's just keep hoping it doesn't end in an Upholding our Oaf-scenario.
posted by Namlit at 2:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 2:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
For "some reason" Gen. Joe Dunford (19th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the principal military advisor to the President of the United States and the Secretary of Defense) has seen fit to pen an article entitled Upholding our Oath, where he addresses USA's armed forces:
I'm guessing top brass feeling like they need this sort of address is somewhat unprecedented in our nation's history, yes?
posted by entropicamericana at 2:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing top brass feeling like they need this sort of address is somewhat unprecedented in our nation's history, yes?
posted by entropicamericana at 2:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hills hears "finish him!" calls, gets Morgan Freeman to narrate her closing argument ad.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:39 PM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:39 PM on October 26, 2016 [26 favorites]
I am aware that I am being insane.
This is the place to be insane, kyrademon! If I didn't have these election threads, I would have been divorced by now.
posted by PlusDistance at 2:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is the place to be insane, kyrademon! If I didn't have these election threads, I would have been divorced by now.
posted by PlusDistance at 2:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm guessing top brass feeling like they need this sort of address is somewhat unprecedented in our nation's history, yes?
The military is more than willing to reprimand its soldiers for politicking in uniform. The brass are doing the troops a favour reminding them of that.
posted by Talez at 2:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
The military is more than willing to reprimand its soldiers for politicking in uniform. The brass are doing the troops a favour reminding them of that.
posted by Talez at 2:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
If I didn't have these election threads, I would have been divorced by now.
Just like Gerald Daughtrey (R) in his infamous commercial.
posted by tofu_crouton at 2:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just like Gerald Daughtrey (R) in his infamous commercial.
posted by tofu_crouton at 2:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Another Victim of This Election: The Verb 'To Drumpf'
Colbert provided a very effective vaccine against this many months ago, many of you were too "fair" or whatever the reasoning was to take it. Anti-vax is not just a fringe woo-woo problem, and if y'all hadn't compromised herd immunity this would never have been an issue.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:48 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Colbert provided a very effective vaccine against this many months ago, many of you were too "fair" or whatever the reasoning was to take it. Anti-vax is not just a fringe woo-woo problem, and if y'all hadn't compromised herd immunity this would never have been an issue.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:48 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The new campaign ad from Joss Whedon for savetheday.vote is... whoa.
Verdict
posted by chris24 at 2:52 PM on October 26, 2016 [99 favorites]
Verdict
posted by chris24 at 2:52 PM on October 26, 2016 [99 favorites]
Whoa indeed. And props for including a taco truck!
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Jalliah: Well I am crying now.
Me, too, dammit.
And no avocados in sight.
posted by Superplin at 2:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Me, too, dammit.
And no avocados in sight.
posted by Superplin at 2:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
The key part of "Upholding Our Oath" is What we must collectively guard against is allowing our institution to become politicized, or even perceived as being politicized, by how we conduct ourselves during engagements with the media, the public, or in open or social forums.
My guess is there's an unusually high level of partisan social media activity and/or comments to traditional media and/or rally attendance in uniform the bosses are unhappy with. The extremes of this campaign year are affecting everybody.
posted by sallybrown at 3:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
My guess is there's an unusually high level of partisan social media activity and/or comments to traditional media and/or rally attendance in uniform the bosses are unhappy with. The extremes of this campaign year are affecting everybody.
posted by sallybrown at 3:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Fuck. That ad makes me profoundly ashamed for what we've become.
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [41 favorites]
If you'd like to avoid feeling even worse, I beg you not to read the comments.
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
That ad also made me cry, and my first thought was that I should share it on Facebook to shove it into as many faces as possible. But those who are racist STILL WON'T CARE. And that made me cry harder.
posted by tofu_crouton at 3:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tofu_crouton at 3:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I didn't realize until I looked at this 538 article about him that not only is his name Egg McMuffin, he even looks just like an egg!
posted by contraption at 3:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by contraption at 3:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well I am crying now.
Oh crap, so am I. I'm glad I'm working from home this afternoon because this is embarrassing.
I have, like, zero emotional filter left. I feel like all of my skin has been worn off these past few months.
I know I've said this before, but these threads are my lifeline. Thanks, y'all.
posted by Salieri at 3:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
Oh crap, so am I. I'm glad I'm working from home this afternoon because this is embarrassing.
I have, like, zero emotional filter left. I feel like all of my skin has been worn off these past few months.
I know I've said this before, but these threads are my lifeline. Thanks, y'all.
posted by Salieri at 3:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
Fuck. That ad makes me profoundly ashamed for what we've become.
Not that it matters expect to make me feel better... I tweeted it at Donald.
posted by Jalliah at 3:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not that it matters expect to make me feel better... I tweeted it at Donald.
posted by Jalliah at 3:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've seen two Save the Day ads so far and they've been the best ads I've seen this cycle. Awesome work.
posted by sallybrown at 3:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 3:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
GREAT ad. Thank you, thank you, Whedon, for making it. And thanks chris24 for posting it!
posted by bearwife at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Bernie Sanders: ‘We must do everything possible’ to press Clinton on AT&T-Time Warner
While this might seem divisive I think it's actually super smart to pound this message going into the election -- it's a good way to lowkey remind his supporters that the Democratic party is a coalition and it includes people like them (/us), and that Clinton is going to be way more receptive to being dragged left than Trump.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
While this might seem divisive I think it's actually super smart to pound this message going into the election -- it's a good way to lowkey remind his supporters that the Democratic party is a coalition and it includes people like them (/us), and that Clinton is going to be way more receptive to being dragged left than Trump.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
> The new campaign ad from Joss Whedon for savetheday.vote is... whoa.
Verdict
Whoa indeed. That one got to me.
posted by languagehat at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Verdict
Whoa indeed. That one got to me.
posted by languagehat at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Regarding the white woman holding the "Blacks for Trump" sign, I was actually a little more surprised at the presence of a black man at a Trump rally. Interesting story...
‘Blacks For Trump’ Supporter A Former Member Of Violent Cult
... According to the Miami New Times, the man, who also goes by the names Maurice Woodside and Michael Symonette, was a former member of the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult. In 1990, the group’s charismatic leader, Hulon Mitchell Jr., was charged for conspiracy to murder. He required inductees to kill people to gain entry to the cult.
Though “Michael” was charged for allegedly conspiring in two murders and his brother testified that he stuck a sharpened stick into one man’s eyeball, he was not convicted. ...
The Trump campaign has positioned him at the front of the crowd at multiple events, including a Sept. 17 rally in downtown Miami and another on Oct. 12 in Lakeland.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 3:15 PM on October 26, 2016
‘Blacks For Trump’ Supporter A Former Member Of Violent Cult
... According to the Miami New Times, the man, who also goes by the names Maurice Woodside and Michael Symonette, was a former member of the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult. In 1990, the group’s charismatic leader, Hulon Mitchell Jr., was charged for conspiracy to murder. He required inductees to kill people to gain entry to the cult.
Though “Michael” was charged for allegedly conspiring in two murders and his brother testified that he stuck a sharpened stick into one man’s eyeball, he was not convicted. ...
The Trump campaign has positioned him at the front of the crowd at multiple events, including a Sept. 17 rally in downtown Miami and another on Oct. 12 in Lakeland.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 3:15 PM on October 26, 2016
Susan B. Anthony's grave right now.
posted by peacheater at 3:16 PM on October 26, 2016 [88 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 3:16 PM on October 26, 2016 [88 favorites]
Verdict....WOW!
Then there is this one. (Not able to link)
http://www.lennyletter.com/politics/news/a587/a-political-education/
Love the couple at 1:25
posted by goalyeehah at 3:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Then there is this one. (Not able to link)
http://www.lennyletter.com/politics/news/a587/a-political-education/
Love the couple at 1:25
posted by goalyeehah at 3:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Whoa indeed. And props for including a taco truck!
Whedon doesn't play fair. The taco truck made me smile, so that he could sucker punch me.
posted by nubs at 3:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
Whedon doesn't play fair. The taco truck made me smile, so that he could sucker punch me.
posted by nubs at 3:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
>"I'm deeply troubled by the events taking place at the DAPL protest on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation, and as president I would work to ensure that Native communities are fully involved in any federally regulated action on Reservation land, and that all treaties are respected and upheld."
It's seriously not a hard thing to say, and if she wanted to actually, personally show support for the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, she could show support for Native people who are protesting an example of the federal government she intends to lead ignoring their input and concerns and allowing a private corporation to threaten their water safety and destroy their sacred burial sites. A thing that Declaration is aimed against.
For what it's worth, Al Gore is supporting the protectors: Gore slams 'dangerous' Dakota pipeline project
DAPL: Former Vice President Al Gore Supports the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
posted by homunculus at 3:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
It's seriously not a hard thing to say, and if she wanted to actually, personally show support for the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, she could show support for Native people who are protesting an example of the federal government she intends to lead ignoring their input and concerns and allowing a private corporation to threaten their water safety and destroy their sacred burial sites. A thing that Declaration is aimed against.
For what it's worth, Al Gore is supporting the protectors: Gore slams 'dangerous' Dakota pipeline project
DAPL: Former Vice President Al Gore Supports the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
posted by homunculus at 3:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Women won’t be able to tell exactly what he is with one glance at his piggy eyes.
Yes, we will, but since he won't describe women as "pieces of ass" and won't talk about which body parts he likes to grab, and since any accusations of crude behavior around women will be met with "I am a gentleman - I would never!" rather than, "I'm a guy - what do you expect?," 90% of the men who hear the stories won't believe us.
The most frustrating thing about dealing with creeps is that most men believe they need to be obvious, ravening rapists to be considered any kind of problem. They don't believe us when we say "dude there is a creep." Instead, we get, "he can't be - he's friendly with Mrs Mackenroe and her two toddler children, and besides, he's raking in sales of all sorts - he wouldn't be an amazing salesperson if he were creepy! People don't buy from creeps!"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [70 favorites]
Yes, we will, but since he won't describe women as "pieces of ass" and won't talk about which body parts he likes to grab, and since any accusations of crude behavior around women will be met with "I am a gentleman - I would never!" rather than, "I'm a guy - what do you expect?," 90% of the men who hear the stories won't believe us.
The most frustrating thing about dealing with creeps is that most men believe they need to be obvious, ravening rapists to be considered any kind of problem. They don't believe us when we say "dude there is a creep." Instead, we get, "he can't be - he's friendly with Mrs Mackenroe and her two toddler children, and besides, he's raking in sales of all sorts - he wouldn't be an amazing salesperson if he were creepy! People don't buy from creeps!"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [70 favorites]
Is the Whedon ad airing anywhere, or is it just online? Because god DAMN does that pack a punch. (I recommend "Quiet," a few down, as an antidote.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing top brass feeling like they need this sort of address is somewhat unprecedented in our nation's history, yes?
Something like this goes out around every Presidential election.
posted by Etrigan at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2016
Something like this goes out around every Presidential election.
posted by Etrigan at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2016
If anyone needs a delighted chuckle, Barry Blitt has outdone himself with the latest New Yorker cover.
posted by languagehat at 3:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 3:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
I burst into tears at the end of "Verdict". No dust in the room, no onions, just the result of built-up fear and apprehension about what's happening to this country. I know the whole "land of the free, home of the brave, send me your tired and downtrodden, everyone can get ahead in America" image of ourselves that I was taught as a child is bullshit. Since I was old enough to start being aware of politics, I've understood that there's it's an uphill struggle and the work may seem endless but it's essential to do.
But knowing that this many of my fellow Americans see people who are different as less than human, as [insert litany of slurs and abuse heard during this campaign] is wrecking me.
posted by Lexica at 3:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
But knowing that this many of my fellow Americans see people who are different as less than human, as [insert litany of slurs and abuse heard during this campaign] is wrecking me.
posted by Lexica at 3:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
Love Has No Labels ' "We Are America" ad with John Cena is excellent, too.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:44 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
TPM: "The PollTracker Average now gives Clinton an 8.6 percentage point lead (Clinton 49.2, Trump 40.6). But a batch of new Senate polls shifted the TPM Senate Scoreboard to D - 48, R- 50 with two seats (Missouri and New Hampshire) in the Toss-Up category."
posted by bluecore at 3:51 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by bluecore at 3:51 PM on October 26, 2016
If anyone needs a delighted chuckle, Barry Blitt has outdone himself with the latest New Yorker cover.I'm neither delighted nor am I chuckling.
posted by xyzzy at 3:54 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is the Whedon ad airing anywhere, or is it just online? Because god DAMN does that pack a punch. (I recommend "Quiet," a few down, as an antidote.)
Yeah, I was expecting cathartic relief at the end, so that gut punch landed extra hard!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:54 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I was expecting cathartic relief at the end, so that gut punch landed extra hard!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:54 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Great, I'm crying alone in a hotel room.
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:55 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:55 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'd normally let Michael Moore's blatherings go unreported, but I feel this one is worthy of some note because it seems to have been adopted by Trump supporters as a sort of rallying cry.
Michael Moore: A Trump Victory Would Be "The Biggest 'F**k You' Recorded In Human History"
Michael Moore: A Trump Victory Would Be "The Biggest 'F**k You' Recorded In Human History"
At a promotional event this week in Ohio for his new film “Michael Moore in TrumpLand,” the liberal documentarian showed that even if he disagrees with their candidate, he can understand the feelings of Trump voters accross the country. This audio recording of Moore's speech has gone viral among Trump supporters, even though it is taken entirely out of context, given the overall message of Moore's film.The speech ends:
Donald Trump Jr. retweeted a copy of this video Wednesday morning
So on November 8, the dispossessed will walk into the voting booth, be handed a ballot, close the curtain, and take that lever or felt pen or touchscreen and put a big fucking X in the box by the name of the man who has threatened to upend and overturn the very system that has ruined their lives: Donald J. Trump.posted by zachlipton at 3:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
They see that the elite who ruined their lives hate Trump. Corporate America hates Trump. Wall Street hates Trump. The career politicians hate Trump. The media hates Trump, after they loved him and created him, and now hate.
Thank you media: the enemy of my enemy is who I'm voting for on November 8.
Yes, on November 8, you Joe Blow, Steve Blow, Bob Blow, Billy Blow, all the Blows get to go and blow up the whole goddamn system because it's your right. Trump's election is going to be the biggest fuck ever recorded in human history and it will feel good.
"Can't tell if Charlie Crist getting better welcome at Clinton rally than at GHW Bush's, W's, McCain's, Obama's" --@adamsmithtimes
In reply: "Charlie Crist is the most shallow, feckless, rudderless, spineless, disloyal, career politician I ever met. And that folks, is a high bar." --@ananavarro
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
In reply: "Charlie Crist is the most shallow, feckless, rudderless, spineless, disloyal, career politician I ever met. And that folks, is a high bar." --@ananavarro
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Great, I'm crying alone in a hotel room.
((hugs))
posted by mikelieman at 4:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
((hugs))
posted by mikelieman at 4:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Today is my birthday too (not quite ready for the senior discount, but getting closer)
Many happy returns of the day, photo guy!
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Many happy returns of the day, photo guy!
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dear fucking christ.
CNN leads off with "a new national poll shows Trump cutting Clinton's lead in half"
My blood pressure spikes.
They (of course) cut to commercial
They come back to show the results of the FOX NEWS POLL.
The hell? Is CNN that invested in the appearance of a horse race to stoop to showing fucking Fox News polls?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
CNN leads off with "a new national poll shows Trump cutting Clinton's lead in half"
My blood pressure spikes.
They (of course) cut to commercial
They come back to show the results of the FOX NEWS POLL.
The hell? Is CNN that invested in the appearance of a horse race to stoop to showing fucking Fox News polls?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Awww!
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:04 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:04 PM on October 26, 2016
Is CNN that invested in the appearance of a horse race to stoop to showing fucking Fox News polls?
Yes?
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yes?
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Fox news polls are real polls, they aren't like Rasmussen. They probably have a bit of a Republican lean but they are scientifically sound AFAIK.
posted by Justinian at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
On the lighter side, Seth Meyers interviews Graydon Carter, who Trump has been insulting for years after he referred to Trump's small fingers.
Also insulting to Trump: Graydon Carter has awesome hair.
posted by mmoncur at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also insulting to Trump: Graydon Carter has awesome hair.
posted by mmoncur at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Michael Moore: A Trump Victory Would Be "The Biggest 'F**k You' Recorded In Human History"
Scroll to the bottom of that article for this gem, which perfectly sums up Michael Moore's editorial contributions to 2016 election journalism and analysis:
Scroll to the bottom of that article for this gem, which perfectly sums up Michael Moore's editorial contributions to 2016 election journalism and analysis:
Related Videosposted by Atom Eyes at 4:08 PM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
◦Michael Moore to Megyn Kelly: Trump Will Have "Biggest Landslide Loss Ever"
◦Michael Moore: "Trump Is Going To Win"
Susan B. Anthony's grave right now.
posted by peacheater at 3:16 PM on October 26 [19 favorites +] [!]
This is from the primary, no? New York doesnt really have early voting.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 3:16 PM on October 26 [19 favorites +] [!]
This is from the primary, no? New York doesnt really have early voting.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
538: Is the Presidential Race Tightening? Short response: yes, but not enough to make a Trump victory at all likely.
Needless to say, the Whedon ad is still nailing the key message: take nothing for granted, turn out and vote.
posted by bearwife at 4:10 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Needless to say, the Whedon ad is still nailing the key message: take nothing for granted, turn out and vote.
posted by bearwife at 4:10 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
DNC Asks for RNC to Be Held in Contempt, Voter Intimidation Consent Decree Extended 8 More Years
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [39 favorites]
"When she opens a can of whoop-ass, she always recycles the can."
James Franco endorses The Most Interesting Woman In The World.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
James Franco endorses The Most Interesting Woman In The World.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [19 favorites]
Ted Cruz tries to lay the groundwork for shrinking the Supreme Court
posted by zeusianfog at 4:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by zeusianfog at 4:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Michael Moore to Megyn Kelly: Trump Will Have "Biggest Landslide Loss Ever"
◦Michael Moore: "Trump Is Going To Win"
Whoa. The man is downright prescient.
Got his finger firmly up the pulse of American popular culture.
posted by Floydd at 4:29 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
◦Michael Moore: "Trump Is Going To Win"
Whoa. The man is downright prescient.
Got his finger firmly up the pulse of American popular culture.
posted by Floydd at 4:29 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
James Franco endorses The Most Interesting Woman In The World yt .
Dat swag when she walks...
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:31 PM on October 26, 2016
Dat swag when she walks...
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:31 PM on October 26, 2016
Whedon is the best.
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Today's Suffolk poll that has Clinton up 9% has some interesting crosstabs. Epistemic closure.
@adrian_gray
Suffolk Poll
Fox viewers: Trump +72
Everyone else: Clinton +40
http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/SUPRC/10_26_2016_tables.pdf
posted by chris24 at 4:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
@adrian_gray
Suffolk Poll
Fox viewers: Trump +72
Everyone else: Clinton +40
http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/SUPRC/10_26_2016_tables.pdf
posted by chris24 at 4:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
> "Ted Cruz tries to lay the groundwork for shrinking the Supreme Court"
Oh my god. They are insane.
posted by kyrademon at 4:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
Oh my god. They are insane.
posted by kyrademon at 4:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
Ted Cruz tries to lay the groundwork for shrinking the Supreme Court
Nah, I'm sure the system was designed so that it could fucking TIE and not resolve an issue. That would never cause a problem.
posted by Mitrovarr at 4:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Nah, I'm sure the system was designed so that it could fucking TIE and not resolve an issue. That would never cause a problem.
posted by Mitrovarr at 4:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Ha ha, remember, Cruz is the "good" one.
(By some incredibly misguided measure)
posted by Artw at 4:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
(By some incredibly misguided measure)
posted by Artw at 4:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
I would say he has no decency but we already knew that. This is a guy who knows more than 99.9% of Americans exactly how important the Court is to the proper functioning of our country. And he's willing to throw it into the garbage heap for the possibility of more power, someday if he makes it 2020 to run. He and the rest of his ilk need some good therapy.
posted by sallybrown at 4:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 4:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
My blood pressure spikes.
God damn it, stop freaking out about individual polls. Stop freaking out about individual polls. Stop freaking out about individual polls.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
I would say he has no decency but we already knew that. This is a guy who knows more than 99.9% of Americans exactly how important the Court is to the proper functioning of our country. And he's willing to throw it into the garbage heap for the possibility of more power, someday if he makes it 2020 to run. He and the rest of his ilk need some good therapy.
They need more than that. They need a functioning soul, conscience, sense of empathy. Whatever you want to call it.
posted by Talez at 4:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
They need more than that. They need a functioning soul, conscience, sense of empathy. Whatever you want to call it.
posted by Talez at 4:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, if the Dems don't take the senate and the Republicans decide to 'flip the table' by not confirming any Supreme Court nominees, is there any way for the executive branch to flip the table right back onto them? Something like telling all executive-branch agencies to disregard all new legislative changes, or anything?
posted by Mitrovarr at 4:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitrovarr at 4:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
@TheRickWilson
Stand by, kids.
The party is getting started.
@TheRickWilson
You guys, you know the BEST October surprises come the LAST weekend. But given there are SO many to be had...
Honestly though Rick Wilson has to take this oppo to the grave. Once it drops, he's irrelevant.
posted by acidic at 4:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Stand by, kids.
The party is getting started.
@TheRickWilson
You guys, you know the BEST October surprises come the LAST weekend. But given there are SO many to be had...
Honestly though Rick Wilson has to take this oppo to the grave. Once it drops, he's irrelevant.
posted by acidic at 4:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Seriously. This is becoming the Chinese Democracy of oppo drops.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:52 PM on October 26, 2016 [47 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:52 PM on October 26, 2016 [47 favorites]
It's pretty dumb to save any truly meaningful oppo until after millions of people have already voted.
posted by Superplin at 4:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 4:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
So, if the Dems don't take the senate and the Republicans decide to 'flip the table' by not confirming any Supreme Court nominees, is there any way for the executive branch to flip the table right back onto them? Something like telling all executive-branch agencies to disregard all new legislative changes, or anything?
I feel like people in executive agencies don't want to spend their days acting like the children of divorcing parents who are trying to exact revenge on one another through their kids...
One interesting thing is the Republicans have already been doing this (refusing to confirm judges and leaving open vacancies) in lots of lower court positions. It's given them the confidence they can get away with this, too.
posted by sallybrown at 4:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I feel like people in executive agencies don't want to spend their days acting like the children of divorcing parents who are trying to exact revenge on one another through their kids...
One interesting thing is the Republicans have already been doing this (refusing to confirm judges and leaving open vacancies) in lots of lower court positions. It's given them the confidence they can get away with this, too.
posted by sallybrown at 4:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
@TheRickWilson:
OK. Here goes, folks — Donald Trump was rude once to a waitress in 1981. Very rude.
[fake]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
OK. Here goes, folks — Donald Trump was rude once to a waitress in 1981. Very rude.
[fake]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's pretty dumb to save any truly meaningful oppo until after millions of people have already voted.
a) Pennsylvania hasn't voted. It won't vote until election day.
b) The American electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish and needs to be reminded daily of how terrible Trump is.
c) Running up the score with undecideds will turn this into a landslide and we need to absolutely reject the message Trump is sending.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
a) Pennsylvania hasn't voted. It won't vote until election day.
b) The American electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish and needs to be reminded daily of how terrible Trump is.
c) Running up the score with undecideds will turn this into a landslide and we need to absolutely reject the message Trump is sending.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
It's pretty dumb to save any truly meaningful oppo until after millions of people have already voted.
10.5ish million people had voted by this morning. 2008 turnout was over 131 million. Many states (including important ones like PA) don't have any early voting or very limited early voting. They have to save some of the good stuff to within the sell-by timeframe of Election Day.
posted by sallybrown at 5:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
10.5ish million people had voted by this morning. 2008 turnout was over 131 million. Many states (including important ones like PA) don't have any early voting or very limited early voting. They have to save some of the good stuff to within the sell-by timeframe of Election Day.
posted by sallybrown at 5:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Daily Beast's running it.
Two prior Daily Beast pieces that are likely related:
Inside Donald Trump’s One-Stop Parties: Attendees Recall Cocaine and Very Young Models (2 days ago)
Model Paula Patrice: Trump Shoved His Tongue Down My Throat (this morning)
It will be some combo of drugs, young models, and party at Trump Tower.
posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Two prior Daily Beast pieces that are likely related:
Inside Donald Trump’s One-Stop Parties: Attendees Recall Cocaine and Very Young Models (2 days ago)
Model Paula Patrice: Trump Shoved His Tongue Down My Throat (this morning)
It will be some combo of drugs, young models, and party at Trump Tower.
posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's pretty dumb to save any truly meaningful oppo until after millions of people have already voted.
There's a balance to be struck. People have short memories so you don't want to drop your best stuff too early. Like, I think if Clinton had her druthers she would've saved the Billy Bush tape until this weekend or last weekend, and then whatever else is on the horizon for Nov 4th or so. And, as sallybrown notes, early voters are a small fraction of the voting populace.
posted by dis_integration at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's a balance to be struck. People have short memories so you don't want to drop your best stuff too early. Like, I think if Clinton had her druthers she would've saved the Billy Bush tape until this weekend or last weekend, and then whatever else is on the horizon for Nov 4th or so. And, as sallybrown notes, early voters are a small fraction of the voting populace.
posted by dis_integration at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, if the Dems don't take the senate and the Republicans decide to 'flip the table' by not confirming any Supreme Court nominees, is there any way for the executive branch to flip the table right back onto them?
All the solutions are pretty bad, but that's what happens when you have a constitutional crisis. Keep in mind that without any action and without a change of heart the USA will ultimately have no Supreme Court and will therefore lack an essential arm of government.
1) If the Senate actually rejected the President's nominations, the only solution would be to use the president's power "to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate". I understand the Senate has been avoiding having any recesses, just for this reason, but it's arguable that recesses happen anyway. Note that the argument would be before the newly-constituted Supreme Court, which would have a strong incentive to accept the Executive's argument. Judges tend to be more loyal to the idea of a judiciary than they are to almost anything else.
2) What the Senate is doing right now is simply refusing to consider any nominations, which is different, especially since the (damn stupid) rules of the Senate allow Senate minorities to block consideration. If the President wanted to force them to consider a nomination then I think the only strategy is the one formerly used when Cardinals refused to nominate a Pope, or when jurors refused to deliver a verdict: keep them locked up until they decide. They might decide to reject the President's nominees, in which case we're back to the first option.
3) Alternatively, there's an argument that silence is consent. It's not an awful argument, but not great, and the (newly reconstituted) Supreme Court would have to rule on it. As before, I think they might be sympathetic to the Executive position, but who knows.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
All the solutions are pretty bad, but that's what happens when you have a constitutional crisis. Keep in mind that without any action and without a change of heart the USA will ultimately have no Supreme Court and will therefore lack an essential arm of government.
1) If the Senate actually rejected the President's nominations, the only solution would be to use the president's power "to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate". I understand the Senate has been avoiding having any recesses, just for this reason, but it's arguable that recesses happen anyway. Note that the argument would be before the newly-constituted Supreme Court, which would have a strong incentive to accept the Executive's argument. Judges tend to be more loyal to the idea of a judiciary than they are to almost anything else.
2) What the Senate is doing right now is simply refusing to consider any nominations, which is different, especially since the (damn stupid) rules of the Senate allow Senate minorities to block consideration. If the President wanted to force them to consider a nomination then I think the only strategy is the one formerly used when Cardinals refused to nominate a Pope, or when jurors refused to deliver a verdict: keep them locked up until they decide. They might decide to reject the President's nominees, in which case we're back to the first option.
3) Alternatively, there's an argument that silence is consent. It's not an awful argument, but not great, and the (newly reconstituted) Supreme Court would have to rule on it. As before, I think they might be sympathetic to the Executive position, but who knows.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Weird Familiarity of 100-Year-Old Feminism
One of the captions:
One of the captions:
“The sky is now her limit,” created by Elmer Andrews Bushnell in 1920, shows a young woman carrying buckets on a yoke, looking up at ladder ascending up to the sky. The bottom rungs are labeled "Slavery," "House Drudgery," and "Shop Work." The top rungs are labeled "Equal Suffrage," "Wage Equity," and "Presidency."posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [36 favorites]
Incoming!
@MarcACaputo
Murphy to Rubio: "If you voted as much as you lie, you might...be a decent senator"
posted by chris24 at 5:16 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
@MarcACaputo
Murphy to Rubio: "If you voted as much as you lie, you might...be a decent senator"
posted by chris24 at 5:16 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Ted Cruz tries to lay the groundwork for shrinking the Supreme Court
Now, Paulsen's claim is that an activist majority out of seven is harder to achieve than an activist majority on a bench of nine. Let P(i) be the probability of having i activists on a bench of seven justices. Then the probability of an activist majority out of seven is P(4) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7). Now, we can break up a bench of nine justices into "the first seven" and "the last two". There are three ways we can have an activist majority on a bench of nine: either at least five justices out of the first seven are activists, in which case the identities of the last two don't matter; exactly four justices out of the first seven are activists and at least one of the last two is an activist; or exactly three justices out of the first seven are activists and both of the last two are activists. The probability of the first case is simply P(5) + P(6) + P(7), the probability of the second case is P(4)*(1 - (1-p)2), and the probability of the third case is P(3)*p2. Thus, the probability of an activist majority out of nine is P(3)*p2 + P(4)*(1 - (1-p)2) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7).
Thus, Paulsen's claim amounts to saying that P(3)*p2 + P(4)*(1 - (1-p)2) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7) > P(4) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7). If we subtract the right side from both sides, we get P(3)*p2 - P(4)*(1-p)2 > 0, or P(3)*p2 > P(4)*(1-p)2.
Now, we use our initial assumption about the independence of assignments to see that P(3) = C(7,3)*p3(1-p)4, and P(4) = C(7,4)*p4(1-p)3. Plugging that back in, we get C(7,3)*p5(1-p)4 > C(7,4)*p4(1-p)5. But C(7,3) = C(7,4), so dividing out like terms, we conclude that, simply, p > 1-p, or in other words, p > 0.5.
So, following Paulsen's claim to its logical conclusion, we see that activist justices are more likely to be appointed than non-activist justices. Further, it is reasonable to suppose that this is because presidents are more likely to be Democratic than Republican.
tl;dr: Yes, I agree with you, Michael Paulsen; presidents are more likely to be Democratic than Republican in the future!!
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Last week, in National Review, Minneapolis law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen argued that a new Congress should pass a law shrinking the Supreme Court from nine to six seats. “A smaller court means diminished judicial activism,” Paulsen wrote. “As the Court’s size shrinks, activist majorities become mathematically harder to put together. Four votes out of seven is harder to achieve than five of nine.”Interesting claim. Let's analyze that mathematically, shall we? Now, while the assignment of Supreme Court justices is certainly correlated (after all, every president since Reagan has been able to nominate at least two SCOTUS justices who were eventually confirmed), for the purposes of determining the number of evil activist justices on the bench, it will suffice to assume that each seat is assigned to an activist with probability p, and to a good, wholesome, originalist, non-activist with probability 1-p.
Now, Paulsen's claim is that an activist majority out of seven is harder to achieve than an activist majority on a bench of nine. Let P(i) be the probability of having i activists on a bench of seven justices. Then the probability of an activist majority out of seven is P(4) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7). Now, we can break up a bench of nine justices into "the first seven" and "the last two". There are three ways we can have an activist majority on a bench of nine: either at least five justices out of the first seven are activists, in which case the identities of the last two don't matter; exactly four justices out of the first seven are activists and at least one of the last two is an activist; or exactly three justices out of the first seven are activists and both of the last two are activists. The probability of the first case is simply P(5) + P(6) + P(7), the probability of the second case is P(4)*(1 - (1-p)2), and the probability of the third case is P(3)*p2. Thus, the probability of an activist majority out of nine is P(3)*p2 + P(4)*(1 - (1-p)2) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7).
Thus, Paulsen's claim amounts to saying that P(3)*p2 + P(4)*(1 - (1-p)2) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7) > P(4) + P(5) + P(6) + P(7). If we subtract the right side from both sides, we get P(3)*p2 - P(4)*(1-p)2 > 0, or P(3)*p2 > P(4)*(1-p)2.
Now, we use our initial assumption about the independence of assignments to see that P(3) = C(7,3)*p3(1-p)4, and P(4) = C(7,4)*p4(1-p)3. Plugging that back in, we get C(7,3)*p5(1-p)4 > C(7,4)*p4(1-p)5. But C(7,3) = C(7,4), so dividing out like terms, we conclude that, simply, p > 1-p, or in other words, p > 0.5.
So, following Paulsen's claim to its logical conclusion, we see that activist justices are more likely to be appointed than non-activist justices. Further, it is reasonable to suppose that this is because presidents are more likely to be Democratic than Republican.
tl;dr: Yes, I agree with you, Michael Paulsen; presidents are more likely to be Democratic than Republican in the future!!
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Ilya Shapiro: The Senate Should Refuse To Confirm All Of Hillary Clinton’s Judicial Nominees
As a matter of constitutional law, the Senate is fully within its powers to let the Supreme Court die out, literally. I’m not sure such a position is politically tenable—barring some extraordinary circumstance like overwhelming public opinion against the legitimacy of the sitting president—but it’s definitely constitutional.posted by Joe in Australia at 5:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
[...]
So when you get past the gotcha headlines, breathless reportage, and Inauguration Day, if Hillary Clinton is president it would be completely decent, honorable, and in keeping with the Senate’s constitutional duty to vote against essentially every judicial nominee she names.
Trump supporters at this point aren't going to be swayed by anything less than him eating babies, and probably not by that. They *like* him disgusting, misogynistic and drug-addled.
posted by Artw at 5:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Judges are only "activist" when they're liberal.
John Roberts' lifelong crusade to destroy the Voting Rights Act wasn't activist. Niether is overturning Roe, or even overturning Lochner. That's just crazytalk, like white people committing terrorism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [77 favorites]
John Roberts' lifelong crusade to destroy the Voting Rights Act wasn't activist. Niether is overturning Roe, or even overturning Lochner. That's just crazytalk, like white people committing terrorism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [77 favorites]
Yeah, the "Four votes out of seven is harder to achieve than five of nine" line didn't make any sense to me either. Any sports fan knows that the underdog has better odds in a short series than a long one.
posted by dfan at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by dfan at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Honestly, no one is forcing these people to stay in our country. They have the money and means to move to a place without a Supreme Court rather than destroying this one for the rest of us. They could probably buy an island somewhere and create a whole new country.
posted by sallybrown at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
If nothing else, the Senate session ends on January 3 after each election, when the new Congress will be sworn in per the 20th Amendment. Recess appointments would be possible then.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I get that many haven't yet voted, and collective memories are short. If this is some news that merely reinforces existing narratives about Trump, then sure. To me, "bombshell" suggests something that launches a new major storyline.
This year in particular I think voters are suffering "scandal fatigue." See for instance the most recent news about Trump soliciting foreign donations: as noted by several people here, that would have dealt a fatal blow to a campaign in a normal year. Instead, it barely registered.
It makes sense to release a slow trickle of women accusing Trump of (actual) nasty behavior, to keep those folks who care from forgetting who he is. It would take something truly exceptional, at this point, to sway opinions among those who are still planning to vote for him. With voting already begun in a number of states, it's risky to deliberately wait until now to drop something important.
posted by Superplin at 5:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This year in particular I think voters are suffering "scandal fatigue." See for instance the most recent news about Trump soliciting foreign donations: as noted by several people here, that would have dealt a fatal blow to a campaign in a normal year. Instead, it barely registered.
It makes sense to release a slow trickle of women accusing Trump of (actual) nasty behavior, to keep those folks who care from forgetting who he is. It would take something truly exceptional, at this point, to sway opinions among those who are still planning to vote for him. With voting already begun in a number of states, it's risky to deliberately wait until now to drop something important.
posted by Superplin at 5:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a matter of constitutional law, the Senate is fully within its powers to let the Supreme Court die out, literally.
Says who? Article Three of the Constitution says, "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." I read that as saying there has to be a Supreme Court, and Congress can establish lower courts. Wouldn't the Supreme Court have to consist of at least one justice?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
It seems like the legislature can't let the court die off against the will of the president, because the president can just recess appointment it back up to full and the senate must go into recess when new members are sworn in.
posted by Mitrovarr at 5:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitrovarr at 5:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I loved this small interaction on Twitter today - the Mayor of Jersey City helping David Fahrenthold out with his Trump donation tracking.
posted by sallybrown at 5:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
Recess appointments would be possible then.
Obama appointing Garland on Jan 3 with Hilary coming into office Jan 20 doesn't seem likely. And it might cause more problems than it's worth, tying Hilary to Garland, or making a really awkward transition when she nominates someone else. Plus the Noel Canning v. NLRB decision defined the recess appointment power as deferential to the Senate's definition of "recess", and there's a good chance Garland could only serve a few days in between sessions. It's not really on the table. Much less any other appointments which would really step on the Hilary transition's toes. One of Obama's faults is his institutionalism and deference to norms that the Republicans have zero qualms breaking, he's not going to make antagonistic power grabs on his way out the door.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Obama appointing Garland on Jan 3 with Hilary coming into office Jan 20 doesn't seem likely. And it might cause more problems than it's worth, tying Hilary to Garland, or making a really awkward transition when she nominates someone else. Plus the Noel Canning v. NLRB decision defined the recess appointment power as deferential to the Senate's definition of "recess", and there's a good chance Garland could only serve a few days in between sessions. It's not really on the table. Much less any other appointments which would really step on the Hilary transition's toes. One of Obama's faults is his institutionalism and deference to norms that the Republicans have zero qualms breaking, he's not going to make antagonistic power grabs on his way out the door.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It seems like the legislature can't let the court die off against the will of the president, because the president can just recess appointment it back up to full and the senate must go into recess when new members are sworn in.
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. But unlike Ilya Shapiro I am not a constitutional lawyer, and I am not a psychopath.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. But unlike Ilya Shapiro I am not a constitutional lawyer, and I am not a psychopath.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Waiting for Daily Beast to drop whatever they have *taps foot*
posted by Talez at 5:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Right, the current Congress ends next January while Obama is still in office. But the next Congress ends in January 2019, mid-term. Barring an outbreak of bubonic plague, most of the Court will still be around, and the next President will be able to fill any openings for two years, at least. You snooze, you lose.
The Senate solely decides when they are in recess. But the Constitution determines when their session ends.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Senate solely decides when they are in recess. But the Constitution determines when their session ends.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:42 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
@RalstonReports
How bad has early voting been for GOP in NV? #nv03 contender @DannyTarkanian tells GOP women's group last night “we're all going down.” [transcript]
posted by chris24 at 5:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
How bad has early voting been for GOP in NV? #nv03 contender @DannyTarkanian tells GOP women's group last night “we're all going down.” [transcript]
posted by chris24 at 5:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Note that recess appointments are temporary. They are not a solution if Republicans intend to destroy the Republic.
posted by Justinian at 5:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 5:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
So I was watching MSNBC a few minutes ago and this popped up.
Women For Trump
posted by johnpowell at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Women For Trump
posted by johnpowell at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
The deference to the Senate on what counts as a recess means it's time to revisit the possibility of treating the pro forma shuffle between House and Senate as "a disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment" and using the untested Article II power to adjourn Congress to a date of the president's choosing.
posted by holgate at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
How bad has early voting been for GOP in NV? #nv03 contender @DannyTarkanian tells GOP women's group last night “we're all going down.” [transcript]
This election can't come any sooner. I'm so eager for HRC's ground game to devastate the GOP and to see red state after red state turn unexpectedly blue because of low GOP turnout. I'm going to be drinking delicious White Male Tears late into the night of November 8.
posted by dis_integration at 5:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
This election can't come any sooner. I'm so eager for HRC's ground game to devastate the GOP and to see red state after red state turn unexpectedly blue because of low GOP turnout. I'm going to be drinking delicious White Male Tears late into the night of November 8.
posted by dis_integration at 5:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
@WalshFreedom:
On November 8th, I'm voting for Trump.
On November 9th, if Trump loses, I'm grabbing my musket.
You in?
Ugh. So apparently you can get elected to Congress and have no respect for democracy. Most of the Twitter responses are suggesting it's a euphemism for masturbation, which is about the level of respect it deserves.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:54 PM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
On November 8th, I'm voting for Trump.
On November 9th, if Trump loses, I'm grabbing my musket.
You in?
Ugh. So apparently you can get elected to Congress and have no respect for democracy. Most of the Twitter responses are suggesting it's a euphemism for masturbation, which is about the level of respect it deserves.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:54 PM on October 26, 2016 [30 favorites]
maybe "musket" is what he calls his tiny penis?
posted by Justinian at 5:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
As a matter of constitutional law, the Senate is fully within its powers to let the Supreme Court die out, literally.
This is mindbendingly ignorant.
As kirkaracha quoted above, the Supreme Court is the only court that the Constitution requires. All other Federal Courts are created by statute. If the Supreme Court didn't exist, what court would review State court determinations of Federal law? Would each state independently determine the meaning of federal law? Literally, the second case that an American law student reads in their required Constitutional Law class is Martin v. Hunter's Lessee, which holds that the U.S. Supreme Court has the power to review State decisions, because of "the importance, and even necessity of uniformity of decisions throughout the whole United States, upon all subjects within the purview of the constitution."
Ilya Shapiro is a senior contributor to the Federalist.
Justice Story -- the author of Martin, a literal "Federalist," appointed by President Madison, the "Father of the Constitution" and principal author of the Federalist Papers -- is rolling in his grave.
posted by ferdydurke at 5:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is mindbendingly ignorant.
As kirkaracha quoted above, the Supreme Court is the only court that the Constitution requires. All other Federal Courts are created by statute. If the Supreme Court didn't exist, what court would review State court determinations of Federal law? Would each state independently determine the meaning of federal law? Literally, the second case that an American law student reads in their required Constitutional Law class is Martin v. Hunter's Lessee, which holds that the U.S. Supreme Court has the power to review State decisions, because of "the importance, and even necessity of uniformity of decisions throughout the whole United States, upon all subjects within the purview of the constitution."
Ilya Shapiro is a senior contributor to the Federalist.
Justice Story -- the author of Martin, a literal "Federalist," appointed by President Madison, the "Father of the Constitution" and principal author of the Federalist Papers -- is rolling in his grave.
posted by ferdydurke at 5:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
@WalshFreedom:
Well, I'm in. But not on your side. Lock & load...
posted by ocschwar at 5:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, I'm in. But not on your side. Lock & load...
posted by ocschwar at 5:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
This election can't come any sooner. I'm so eager for HRC's ground game to devastate the GOP and to see red state after red state turn unexpectedly blue because of low GOP turnout. I'm going to be drinking delicious White Male Tears late into the night of November 8.
TTTCS
(Btw, the reason I went with TTTCS instead of TTTSC is that extensive experimentation here in my home lab has demonstrated that it's much easier and less gross to curse and then spit rather than vice versa.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
TTTCS
(Btw, the reason I went with TTTCS instead of TTTSC is that extensive experimentation here in my home lab has demonstrated that it's much easier and less gross to curse and then spit rather than vice versa.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's the Daily Beast story: chasing around after Playboy model Brande Roderick on the set of the The Apprentice.
posted by holgate at 6:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by holgate at 6:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hate the Republicans using "federalist" to mean the opposite goddamn thing as it did historically. I thought they were supposed to be originalists. And why are they so stuck on keeping the Constitution suspended in amber when the existence of the amendment process in Article Five shows the founders knew the Constitution wasn't perfect?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
That DB piece is gross but not really shocking, given what we already know. Ugh, this election and its effect on our emotional tolerance of slime. Maybe there's more cued up to drop this evening?
posted by holgate at 6:08 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by holgate at 6:08 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Also from the Daily Beast Jill Stein’s Ideology Says One Thing—Her Investment Portfolio Says Another
Green Party Presidential Nominee Jill Stein has largely based her campaign on her uncompromising positions on the environment, opposition to big banks and Wall Street, defense contractors, and the pharmaceutical industry. But an analysis of her financial disclosures, which she was required to file as a presidential candidate, show that she is heavily invested in the very industries that she maligns the most and as a result of her investments, she has built significant wealth.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 PM on October 26, 2016 [38 favorites]
well, that's because we made laws that let her.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:10 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:10 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
That DB piece is gross but not really shocking, given what we already know. Ugh, this election and its effect on our emotional tolerance of slime. Maybe there's more cued up to drop this evening?
I had the exact same reaction. Like I felt ashamed that this was utterly despicable and uncivilized but still, my internal monologue was "so what else is new". The normalization of deviance this election is an attack that the body politic may not heal from.
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I had the exact same reaction. Like I felt ashamed that this was utterly despicable and uncivilized but still, my internal monologue was "so what else is new". The normalization of deviance this election is an attack that the body politic may not heal from.
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
And why are they so stuck on keeping the Constitution suspended in amber when the existence of the amendment process in Article Five shows the founders knew the Constitution wasn't perfect?
As usual, the answer is bad faith. Originalism is not actually a thing, it was always and forever code for "Republican policy preferences". Scalia wasn't some titan of legal intellect, he was an inconsistent hack who couched his own desire to make law from the bench in high minded rhetoric of the intent of the founding fathers, as if they were alive to speak a given matter. Republicans seized on this as a brilliant insight, and it lives on in people like Ilya Shapiro, Eugene Volokh and Randy Barnett.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [28 favorites]
As usual, the answer is bad faith. Originalism is not actually a thing, it was always and forever code for "Republican policy preferences". Scalia wasn't some titan of legal intellect, he was an inconsistent hack who couched his own desire to make law from the bench in high minded rhetoric of the intent of the founding fathers, as if they were alive to speak a given matter. Republicans seized on this as a brilliant insight, and it lives on in people like Ilya Shapiro, Eugene Volokh and Randy Barnett.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:13 PM on October 26, 2016 [28 favorites]
@KenJennings
Joe Walsh musket.posted by figurant at 6:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [97 favorites]
--Joe Walsh musket who?
Joe Walsh musket a lot of visits from the Secret Service.
Also from the Daily Beast Jill Stein’s Ideology Says One Thing—Her Investment Portfolio Says Another
"Jill Stein invested in an S&P 500 index fund" oh man devastating
posted by indubitable at 6:16 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
"Jill Stein invested in an S&P 500 index fund" oh man devastating
posted by indubitable at 6:16 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
From the Daily Beast article on Jill Stein:
posted by Sara C. at 6:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
According to the financial disclosure form that she filed with the United States Office of Government Ethics on March 30, 2016, Stein and her husband, Richard Roher, have investments (with the exception of real estate) worth anywhere from $3,832,050 to $8,505,000.So... was Trump not required to do this as well, or was his disclosure even murkier about his net worth?
posted by Sara C. at 6:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Bloomberg Trump’s Family Fortune Originated in a Canadian Gold-Rush Brothel
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Trump family’s gold-rush story began when Fred, as he was known, left Germany at the age of 16 with little more than a suitcase. He headed to New York to work as a barber before venturing west in search of riches. Following stints in Seattle and now-defunct Monte Cristo, the gold fever carried him to Bennett, where he and partner Ernest Levin built the Arctic Restaurant, which touted itself as the best-equipped in town.Merely of historical interest-- not a reason to vote against Trump.
It was open around the clock with “private boxes for ladies and parties,” according to an advertisement in the Dec. 9, 1899 edition of the Bennett Sun newspaper. The boxes typically included a bed and scale for weighing gold dust used to pay for “services,” according to a three-generational biography by Gwenda Blair, who traced the origins of the Trump family’s wealth. Of course, in the rough-and-tumble frontier towns of that era, the Arctic’s business model built on food, booze and sex was common.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is it really a normalization of deviance? It's perfectly in character for Trump, but if it were almost any other politician it would remain scandalous and shocking. And it's not as if it's permissible because it's unsurprising - it's unsurprising because we already knew that Trump is despicable. It doesn't lead us to condemn him further because we already condemn him strongly, not because we've become so desensitized that it seems okay.
posted by vathek at 6:18 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by vathek at 6:18 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Jill Stein invested in an S&P 500 index fund" oh man devastating
When you call for the corporate death penalty and then invest in that same thing... It's just a tad hypocritical.
It's not like ethical index funds aren't a thing.
posted by Talez at 6:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
When you call for the corporate death penalty and then invest in that same thing... It's just a tad hypocritical.
It's not like ethical index funds aren't a thing.
posted by Talez at 6:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
Also from the Daily Beast Jill Stein’s Ideology Says One Thing—Her Investment Portfolio Says Another
I thought about posting this here, but held off, because the headline a little misleading in some respect: most of those investments are in mutual funds that invest in broad chunks of the market, which is what a lot of reputable financial advisors recommend (though she does have that bunch of Merck stock, because I guess big Phama isn't so bad after all). It's really hard to call someone out for owning stock in an S&P 500 index fund. At that point, the argument should really shift to changes in laws and regulations to make the economy less "evil," not trying to cheerypick out every problematic investments from the index.
Of course, this is Jill Stein we're talking about, the candidate who most symbolizes the ideology that saying you stood by your convictions is more important than results. So if there's anybody who should be walking the talk when it comes to her investments, it's her.
It also doesn't speak well for her thoughts about her chances, since a rational investor holding Exxon stock would probably sell if they thought Stein was about to become President.
Stein 2016: don't you dare compromise your principles even a tiny bit to keep out a fascist, but feel free to compromise them to chase a higher rate of return.
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [44 favorites]
I thought about posting this here, but held off, because the headline a little misleading in some respect: most of those investments are in mutual funds that invest in broad chunks of the market, which is what a lot of reputable financial advisors recommend (though she does have that bunch of Merck stock, because I guess big Phama isn't so bad after all). It's really hard to call someone out for owning stock in an S&P 500 index fund. At that point, the argument should really shift to changes in laws and regulations to make the economy less "evil," not trying to cheerypick out every problematic investments from the index.
Of course, this is Jill Stein we're talking about, the candidate who most symbolizes the ideology that saying you stood by your convictions is more important than results. So if there's anybody who should be walking the talk when it comes to her investments, it's her.
It also doesn't speak well for her thoughts about her chances, since a rational investor holding Exxon stock would probably sell if they thought Stein was about to become President.
Stein 2016: don't you dare compromise your principles even a tiny bit to keep out a fascist, but feel free to compromise them to chase a higher rate of return.
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on October 26, 2016 [44 favorites]
More from the Jill Stein article:
The point is that she makes a big deal out of the two major parties being a part of the capitalist system but she doesn't mind profiting off of the Pharmaceutical industry for one.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
She has made purity a central pillar of her presidential candidacy, and she has held that the Green Party reigns above all others with respect to moral and ethical supremacy. In an interview with CNN last April, she said, “I have long since thrown in the towel on the Democratic and Republican parties because they are really a front group for the 1 percent, for predatory banks, fossil fuel giants and war profiteers.”[my bold]
Most of Stein’s investments are in mutual funds or index funds. Experts suggest that these funds, which are usually highly diversified, provide more consistent returns than picking individual stocks.
It’s important to note that politicians from all parties have been held accountable for their mutual and index fund investments. Elected officials and candidates like Barack Obama, Ted Cruz, and many members of Congress have had their fund investments called into question and have been pushed to divest for various reasons.
The point is that she makes a big deal out of the two major parties being a part of the capitalist system but she doesn't mind profiting off of the Pharmaceutical industry for one.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
When you call for the corporate death penalty and then invest in that same thing... It's just a tad hypocritical.
You realize Hillary Clinton is invested in the very same fund, right? Does that mean she's in the pocket of Big Oil?
posted by indubitable at 6:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
You realize Hillary Clinton is invested in the very same fund, right? Does that mean she's in the pocket of Big Oil?
posted by indubitable at 6:24 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
You realize Hillary Clinton is invested in the very same fund, right? Does that mean she's in the pocket of Big Oil?
Don't be obtuse. Hilary isn't going around calling for the end of capitalism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
Don't be obtuse. Hilary isn't going around calling for the end of capitalism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [29 favorites]
> "Jill Stein invested in an S&P 500 index fund" oh man devastating
There are also funds / investment programs for "green" investments, including one for B Corps. So if she was willing to take a slightly lower ROI, she could have shifted her funds or instructed Vanguard to do so, etc.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
There are also funds / investment programs for "green" investments, including one for B Corps. So if she was willing to take a slightly lower ROI, she could have shifted her funds or instructed Vanguard to do so, etc.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
You realize Hillary Clinton is invested in the very same fund, right? Does that mean she's in the pocket of Big Oil?
Hillary Clinton isn't calling for Exxon to have its corporate charter revoked.
posted by Talez at 6:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Hillary Clinton isn't calling for Exxon to have its corporate charter revoked.
posted by Talez at 6:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
I mean for fuck's sake, if she's half the wacky anti-vax moonbeam flower child everyone makes her out to be, it seems like a weird choice to shit on basically every American with a 401(k) or IRA.
posted by indubitable at 6:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by indubitable at 6:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
> I mean for fuck's sake, if she's half the wacky anti-vax moonbeam flower child everyone makes her out to be, it seems like a weird choice to shit on basically every American with a 401(k) or IRA.
It's not the funds, it's the fact that she of all people invests in them without question. But has questions about vaccines.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
It's not the funds, it's the fact that she of all people invests in them without question. But has questions about vaccines.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:28 PM on October 26, 2016 [24 favorites]
It's like Ralph Nader having a large investment in DOW or GM.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:29 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 6:29 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
the headline a little misleading in some respect: most of those investments are in mutual funds that invest in broad chunks of the market, which is what a lot of reputable financial advisors recommend
Sure, and voting for one of the two major parties is what a lot of reputable political advisors recommend.
Stein is either advocating for a lot of stuff that it turns out she doesn't believe in at all*, or is too stupid to google what a mutual fund is.
*Shades of Clinton's "public and private positions", really. Except worse because Stein's supporters typically think this is what makes Clinton not deserving of their ideologically pure vote.
posted by Sara C. at 6:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sure, and voting for one of the two major parties is what a lot of reputable political advisors recommend.
Stein is either advocating for a lot of stuff that it turns out she doesn't believe in at all*, or is too stupid to google what a mutual fund is.
*Shades of Clinton's "public and private positions", really. Except worse because Stein's supporters typically think this is what makes Clinton not deserving of their ideologically pure vote.
posted by Sara C. at 6:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Other than the tax returns (if we ever see them), I don't think anything can be classified as a Trump "bombshell" if it's not photographic or video evidence...due to how gross we already believe he is, how willing he is to lie his way out of things, and how in denial/anti-media his supporters are.
posted by sallybrown at 6:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Discussing Jill Stein feels only a smidgen more relevant than discussing Scott Adams.
posted by vathek at 6:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by vathek at 6:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [15 favorites]
Jill Stein is running for President right now.
posted by Sara C. at 6:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 6:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
WSJ Megyn Kelly Seeks Salary North of $20 Million in Contract Talks With Fox News
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fox News star Megyn Kelly has changed agents and publicity teams since last year. Now the question is if she will change TV networks.Good Morning America? Really? She doesn't seem like the genial, bland, non-offensive type preferred by the morning shows. I see her as more of a killer. If she changes networks I would hope to see her become neutral politically-wise but keep that edginess.
Host of “The Kelly File,” one of the cable-news channel’s most popular shows, Ms. Kelly is in active talks over her contract, which expires next July. Her profile has been rising during the presidential election cycle, in part thanks to a dust-up with Republican candidate Donald Trump.[...]
Asked if Ms. Kelly would stay at the channel, Mr. Murdoch said in an interview that she is important to the network and he hopes to get a contract signed “very soon,” but noted, “it’s up to her.”[...]
The networks seen as most likely to make an aggressive play for Ms. Kelly are CNN, where she could go up against Fox News in prime-time, and ABC, where TV executives say she might fit well on “Good Morning America” or in an evening newsmagazine. CNN and ABC declined to comment.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jill Stein is running for President right now.
Walking, at best.
posted by Etrigan at 6:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [77 favorites]
Walking, at best.
posted by Etrigan at 6:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [77 favorites]
Yes but Adams is controlling the outcome of the election with his MASTER PERSUASION powers and has volunteered to be the leader of the revolutionary vanguard if we need to overthrow the government afterward, so
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
...why are they so stuck on keeping the Constitution suspended in amber when the existence of the amendment process in Article Five shows the founders knew the Constitution wasn't perfect?
perhaps it comes from the idea of Biblical inerrancy - if you're raised with that idea, it may give you the paradigm for textual authority meaning the text must be static and final. The bizarre idea that the meaning of the Constitution is plain and that there is no stage of interpreting it needed (what does "necessary and proper" mean? It means, necessary and proper!) seems thematic.
posted by thelonius at 6:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
perhaps it comes from the idea of Biblical inerrancy - if you're raised with that idea, it may give you the paradigm for textual authority meaning the text must be static and final. The bizarre idea that the meaning of the Constitution is plain and that there is no stage of interpreting it needed (what does "necessary and proper" mean? It means, necessary and proper!) seems thematic.
posted by thelonius at 6:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
I've never heard of such a thing as a "Scott Adams," I think you must mean Adam Scott.
posted by sallybrown at 6:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
I put myself second to no one when it comes to my dislike of Jill Stein, but "participates in capitalism" is not incompatible with "wants to fix/end capitalism." By that same logic, nobody who believes the mortgage interest deduction is bad policy should avail themselves of it. Nobody's going to bring back defined benefit pensions because Jill Stein refused to invest in her 401k.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
perhaps it comes from the idea of Biblical inerrancy
Having grown up amongst a lot of evangelicals, I agree. Short walk from "really old book straight from God" to "really old document straight from God."
posted by Rykey at 6:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Having grown up amongst a lot of evangelicals, I agree. Short walk from "really old book straight from God" to "really old document straight from God."
posted by Rykey at 6:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Ugh. Bloomberg poll has Trump up +2 in Florida. All the polls are within MOE tied right now."
I firmly believe Florida will be delivered to the Dems on the strength of Puerto Rican voters who were disenfranchised in Puerto Rico and who relocated to Florida to escape the island's economic collapse that was aided, abetted, and prolonged by the Congressional Republicans, and who, upon arriving in Florida, immediately became eligible to vote for president as US citizens now residing in a STATE.
Hillary's going to win it with or without Florida, but the GOP is going to be hoist on its own xenophobic, English-only, no-bailouts, Wall-Street-advantaging petard in Florida. A THOUSAND FAMILIES A MONTH have been moving from Puerto Rico to Florida for the past twelve months or so, and they historically turn out at rates 50% higher than mainland peers, and they are way disproportionately Democrats (about 75%). POSSIBLY THE PARTY OF NO SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERED DEALING WITH THE PUERTO RICAN DEBT CRISIS RATHER THAN JUST OBSTRUCTING EVERYTHING FOR SPITE. Tens of thousands of new voters who are mostly super pissed off at the GOP.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [85 favorites]
I firmly believe Florida will be delivered to the Dems on the strength of Puerto Rican voters who were disenfranchised in Puerto Rico and who relocated to Florida to escape the island's economic collapse that was aided, abetted, and prolonged by the Congressional Republicans, and who, upon arriving in Florida, immediately became eligible to vote for president as US citizens now residing in a STATE.
Hillary's going to win it with or without Florida, but the GOP is going to be hoist on its own xenophobic, English-only, no-bailouts, Wall-Street-advantaging petard in Florida. A THOUSAND FAMILIES A MONTH have been moving from Puerto Rico to Florida for the past twelve months or so, and they historically turn out at rates 50% higher than mainland peers, and they are way disproportionately Democrats (about 75%). POSSIBLY THE PARTY OF NO SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERED DEALING WITH THE PUERTO RICAN DEBT CRISIS RATHER THAN JUST OBSTRUCTING EVERYTHING FOR SPITE. Tens of thousands of new voters who are mostly super pissed off at the GOP.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [85 favorites]
By that same logic, nobody who believes the mortgage interest deduction is bad policy should avail themselves of it.
And that's the exact same type of argument Stein and her supporters would, and have, used against Clinton if they thought it could get any traction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
And that's the exact same type of argument Stein and her supporters would, and have, used against Clinton if they thought it could get any traction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
When you call for the corporate death penalty and then invest in that same thing... It's just a tad hypocritical.
It's not like ethical index funds aren't a thing.
But then you are holding more focused stocks that can bias your decision making in office.
The advantage of an general index fund is that it is mostly a politically neutral collection of companies in the index so it is difficult for a politician to try and move the index in any way that isn't generally good for the economy. Ethical indexes can be loaded with specific kinds of ethics (like say Green policies) which would lead to an accusation of a form of self-dealing if Stein were to push things like subsidies (or end subsidies for non-green biz).
posted by srboisvert at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not like ethical index funds aren't a thing.
But then you are holding more focused stocks that can bias your decision making in office.
The advantage of an general index fund is that it is mostly a politically neutral collection of companies in the index so it is difficult for a politician to try and move the index in any way that isn't generally good for the economy. Ethical indexes can be loaded with specific kinds of ethics (like say Green policies) which would lead to an accusation of a form of self-dealing if Stein were to push things like subsidies (or end subsidies for non-green biz).
posted by srboisvert at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I prefer to believe that there's going to be an unpredictably huge turnout of Latino voters in all the swing states with large Latino constituencies (FL, AZ, NV, TX). I know this is basically the same logic the Trump folks are using (this is why they keep saying it's "going to be another Brexit"), but looking at the articles which have come out about the record early voting from Texas Latinos, I think it's not quite that farfetched.
posted by Sara C. at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Merely of historical interest-- not a reason to vote against Trump.
A week or two ago I was listening CBC radio. It was The Debaters I think and they were in Whitehorse. The host joked about it being where the Trump fortune came from, the something something brothel.
I thought it was just a weird, not really super funny, current affairs joke somehow related to the 'grabby' tape and general way Trump is with women.
And so of course it's true...
posted by Jalliah at 6:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
A week or two ago I was listening CBC radio. It was The Debaters I think and they were in Whitehorse. The host joked about it being where the Trump fortune came from, the something something brothel.
I thought it was just a weird, not really super funny, current affairs joke somehow related to the 'grabby' tape and general way Trump is with women.
And so of course it's true...
posted by Jalliah at 6:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
New report comes out about The Republican Candidate behaving like a monster sexist pig and we're so used to it we spend more time talking about minor third party candidate's financial investments. Fucking 2016, man.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:49 PM on October 26, 2016 [28 favorites]
Also from the Daily Beast Jill Stein’s Ideology Says One Thing—Her Investment Portfolio Says Another
Reminds me of Nader's Secret Luxury House (stay for the Y2K-era web design!)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:49 PM on October 26, 2016
Reminds me of Nader's Secret Luxury House (stay for the Y2K-era web design!)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:49 PM on October 26, 2016
And that's the exact same type of argument Stein and her supporters would, and have, used against Clinton if they thought it could get any traction.
Yeah, but we're better than she is. The fact that she owns some fractional shares of companies that are nearly impossible not to accidentally support in some way just by participating in modern society is very far down on the list of reasons to ignore, mock and/or dislike her.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, but we're better than she is. The fact that she owns some fractional shares of companies that are nearly impossible not to accidentally support in some way just by participating in modern society is very far down on the list of reasons to ignore, mock and/or dislike her.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
That Roderick story is the thing that Rick Wilson was crowing about? Go away Rick, you're becoming tiresome.
posted by Justinian at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
The fact that she owns some fractional shares of companies that are nearly impossible not to accidentally support in some way just by participating in modern society is very far down on the list of reasons to ignore, mock and/or dislike her. in order to maintain a life of wealth and privilege while calling out another candidate that made her money working for a living as a public servant (fixed for you) is a wonderful reason to ignore, mock and dislike her thanks.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
Jill Stein is running for President\
That's nice. President of what?
posted by happyroach at 6:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's nice. President of what?
posted by happyroach at 6:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Except that sort of ideological purity is exactly what she's running on.
If Jill Stein isn't pure enough for Jill Stein's purity-based hierarchy of who is acceptable to run this country, then isn't that deserving of some ridicule?
posted by Sara C. at 6:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
If Jill Stein isn't pure enough for Jill Stein's purity-based hierarchy of who is acceptable to run this country, then isn't that deserving of some ridicule?
posted by Sara C. at 6:56 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
(fixed for you)
Your sick burns mean as much to me as Jill Stein's candidacy does to America. Possibly less.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Your sick burns mean as much to me as Jill Stein's candidacy does to America. Possibly less.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
DNC Launches Broad Legal Attack On RNC Over Trump's 'Voter Fraud' Crusade
In a dramatic escalation of a long legal battle between the national Democratic and Republican parties – and in what is arguably a fitting culmination to the year of Donald Trump – the Democratic National Committee is asking a federal court to hold the Republican National Committee in contempt of court for allegedly violating a decades-old consent decree limiting so-called "ballot security" activities at poll places.posted by kirkaracha at 7:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [31 favorites]
...
The legal move by the DNC comes in response to Donald Trump's calls for vigilante "poll watchers" to come out in force nationwide on Election Day. The RNC had hoped to be freed from the consent decree as soon as next year, and Trump's actions now threaten to hobble the GOP for nearly another decade, if Democrats have their way.
Rep. Jason Chaffetz:: "I will not defend or endorse @realDonaldTrump, but I am voting for him. HRC is that bad. HRC is bad for the USA."
Ryan Lizza notes: "You literally defend (claim he's better than HRC) and endorse (publicly declare you'll vote for him) Trump in this very tweet."
posted by zachlipton at 7:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [83 favorites]
Ryan Lizza notes: "You literally defend (claim he's better than HRC) and endorse (publicly declare you'll vote for him) Trump in this very tweet."
posted by zachlipton at 7:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [83 favorites]
If Jill Stein isn't pure enough for Jill Stein's purity-based hierarchy of who is acceptable to run this country, then isn't that deserving of some ridicule?
This reminds me of nothing more than Republican acquaintances on Facebook yammering about how Al Gore flies in a jet.
posted by indubitable at 7:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
This reminds me of nothing more than Republican acquaintances on Facebook yammering about how Al Gore flies in a jet.
posted by indubitable at 7:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
This reminds me of nothing more than Republican acquaintances on Facebook yammering about how Al Gore flies in a jet.
A messenger needs a means to efficiently deliver that message. Stein doesnt need to be independently wealthy. Not even remotely sorta kinda even the same thing.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 7:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
A messenger needs a means to efficiently deliver that message. Stein doesnt need to be independently wealthy. Not even remotely sorta kinda even the same thing.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 7:14 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Al Gore also never claimed not to fly in jets, or that jets should be banned, or that people who fly in jets should be the first before the firing squad.
In general I agree that it's pointless to dig at purity-based critiques of almost anyone. Except for Jill Stein, who urges her supporters to decide on which candidate to vote for based on ideological purity. Hoist her by her own petard, I say.
posted by Sara C. at 7:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
In general I agree that it's pointless to dig at purity-based critiques of almost anyone. Except for Jill Stein, who urges her supporters to decide on which candidate to vote for based on ideological purity. Hoist her by her own petard, I say.
posted by Sara C. at 7:30 PM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
Yeah I'm a nobody who doesn't properly recycle and I made considered decisions about my (much much smaller) retirement investments. It's relatively straight forward (even trivially easy) to choose a fund with 'responsible' in the name, if it's something a person actually takes ten minutes to think about. And once it's set it's set. It's not remotely like traveling by plane. Its easier than bringing your own bag to the store, because it only has to be done once (per new job). It's way easier than recycling household waste. It's maybe slightly harder than telling the DMV you want to be an organ donor, but it's not a meaningful barrier for someone who could get into med school.
I wouldn't condemn Stein as a person for this— and most of my own paltry investments are not in green or socially responsible funds (though at least some part is, because aligning my financial decisions to my values is something I think about and aim for, even if I am far from fully there. It just doesn't inspire confidence in her as a leader of a green party that she doesn't seem to have given care either to the ethics or the optics of her own investments. It's like even she doesn't take herself or her party seriously. Which seems really unfair for down ballot candidates who might be really committed to environmentalist public service.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
I wouldn't condemn Stein as a person for this— and most of my own paltry investments are not in green or socially responsible funds (though at least some part is, because aligning my financial decisions to my values is something I think about and aim for, even if I am far from fully there. It just doesn't inspire confidence in her as a leader of a green party that she doesn't seem to have given care either to the ethics or the optics of her own investments. It's like even she doesn't take herself or her party seriously. Which seems really unfair for down ballot candidates who might be really committed to environmentalist public service.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Eh, it just seems petty to ding Stein for being invested in mutual funds. She's not someone I would like as president, but she probably has much the same worries as many people - making sure she has enough for her old age, wanting to leave something to her family. She's in a lot better position than most mefites, yeah, but frankly in this America, you need a lot more than a few million to guarantee you against catastrophic medical issues in old age, for instance. You could burn through a million just trying to make things not suck for a profoundly sick or disabled family member. We live in a society where you have to be very rich indeed to be secure, and where even the pretty-damn-rich-by-my-standards people are not truly secure against medical bills or serious setbacks because we don't have a meaningful social safety net.
It's not that I admire people who are really focused on getting rich, but I'm not going to hate on someone who merely invests the money they have in a popular, ordinary investment vehicle.
And on top of that - look, the revolution isn't going to pay her bills if her husband develops an expensive dwindling illness like dementia in old age, for example. I've been around the radical left for 2/3 of my life now and I wouldn't fault someone for thinking "I have to be able to take care of myself if something should go wrong".
posted by Frowner at 7:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not that I admire people who are really focused on getting rich, but I'm not going to hate on someone who merely invests the money they have in a popular, ordinary investment vehicle.
And on top of that - look, the revolution isn't going to pay her bills if her husband develops an expensive dwindling illness like dementia in old age, for example. I've been around the radical left for 2/3 of my life now and I wouldn't fault someone for thinking "I have to be able to take care of myself if something should go wrong".
posted by Frowner at 7:32 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, until there's a real social safety net, I'm not going to get mad at someone who has a very ordinary variety of investment. That's the kicker in this society - if you choose low ROI or no investments (not that I have any investments personally; I have a union gig with a pension, should it still be there when I collect it) you'll be poor and not just poor but at serious risk, because this is not a good society for the poor.
Social safety net first, then lean on people to divest from Vanguard, etc.
posted by Frowner at 7:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Social safety net first, then lean on people to divest from Vanguard, etc.
posted by Frowner at 7:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, the only thing in that article that *really* bothers me is her direct stock holding in Merck.
posted by bardophile at 7:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bardophile at 7:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
A messenger needs a means to efficiently deliver that message. Stein doesnt need to be independently wealthy. Not even remotely sorta kinda even the same thing.
I'm sure you'd feel the same even if you didn't believe in his message.
Maybe she could have spent some time investing in funds that weren't backing certain companies, but you and I and everyone else would know that she was doing it precisely to avoid this kind of nitpicking. It wouldn't change how awful she is, and people would just find some other way to nitpick her specific way of navigating the capitalist economy. It would be a big ol' performative dance that doesn't hasten the end of capitalism and doesn't make her a better candidate.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:38 PM on October 26, 2016
I'm sure you'd feel the same even if you didn't believe in his message.
Maybe she could have spent some time investing in funds that weren't backing certain companies, but you and I and everyone else would know that she was doing it precisely to avoid this kind of nitpicking. It wouldn't change how awful she is, and people would just find some other way to nitpick her specific way of navigating the capitalist economy. It would be a big ol' performative dance that doesn't hasten the end of capitalism and doesn't make her a better candidate.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:38 PM on October 26, 2016
I'm more uncomfortable with Jill Stein's ties to Russia, but the direct investment in Merck while she's pushing an anti-vaxxer agenda is pretty hypocritical.
posted by Yowser at 7:40 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:40 PM on October 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
And, for fuck's sake, the six or seven of us participating in this discussion have put more energy into it than Stein has into her campaign. Let's talk about something more relevant, like Egg McMuffin's short list of cabinet choices, or what pattern Bill is going to select for the White House drapes.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:41 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
The only important thing to mention about Stein is why the press doesn't ask and she doesn't talk about what they're doing to support viable green candidates down ballot. The libertarians in Washington have multiple candidates that made it to the general (top two primary so they had to beat a republican or democrat to make it). Any other topic regarding the US Green Party is silly.
posted by R343L at 7:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by R343L at 7:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yes, can we send Jill Stein to the same farm where Scott Adams now happily persuades sheep?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
What's especially sad about that, R343L, is that the Greens could absolutely be a viable third party by running candidates at the local level in parts of the country that have a stronger progressive/liberal split than a liberal/conservative split. We could 100% be living in a country where the Greens held majorities in a couple state legislatures, formed the base of the city councils of places like San Francisco and Seattle, and probably held 4-5 seats in the House. Maybe even a senator or a governor.
And yet we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because the Greens just run a vanity candidate every four years and then take a nice nap.
posted by Sara C. at 7:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [79 favorites]
And yet we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because the Greens just run a vanity candidate every four years and then take a nice nap.
posted by Sara C. at 7:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [79 favorites]
In states like New York can't they also dual party so at state/national level the democrats can let them run under their banner? It's absurd. Sigh.
posted by R343L at 7:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by R343L at 7:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Let's talk about something more relevant, like Egg McMuffin's short list of cabinet choices, or what pattern Bill is going to select for the White House drapes.
Oddly enough, the answer to both lines of inquiry is Art Nouveau.
posted by Atom Eyes at 7:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
Oddly enough, the answer to both lines of inquiry is Art Nouveau.
posted by Atom Eyes at 7:53 PM on October 26, 2016 [21 favorites]
Jill Stein is running for President
She's really not though; she's just trying to stir the pot. Unless I missed something Stein has never held higher public office than being elected to the equivalent of an ANSI member in Lexington, MA. She either knows she never had a shot at it and is actively trying to pull votes from the Dems (likely), or even more cynically actually doesn't understand she never had a shot.
Stein has largely ill-thought-out domestic policies, is mostly ignorant of or indifferent to foreign policy, and refuses to participate in forming a coalition with the half of the voting political spectrum where she might actually make an impact.
Although I don't find her positions as nonsensical as his, I don't really understand why she's not held up alongside Ben Carson as a dictionary example of engineer's disease.
This example of personal hypocrisy doesn't make me like her any better, I suppose, but it's kinda low on the chain.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
She's really not though; she's just trying to stir the pot. Unless I missed something Stein has never held higher public office than being elected to the equivalent of an ANSI member in Lexington, MA. She either knows she never had a shot at it and is actively trying to pull votes from the Dems (likely), or even more cynically actually doesn't understand she never had a shot.
Stein has largely ill-thought-out domestic policies, is mostly ignorant of or indifferent to foreign policy, and refuses to participate in forming a coalition with the half of the voting political spectrum where she might actually make an impact.
Although I don't find her positions as nonsensical as his, I don't really understand why she's not held up alongside Ben Carson as a dictionary example of engineer's disease.
This example of personal hypocrisy doesn't make me like her any better, I suppose, but it's kinda low on the chain.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
And yet we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because the Greens just run a vanity candidate every four years and then take a nice nap.
Imagine it's November 9th and Bernie Sanders calls a press conference to announce that he's forming his own third party. The Manny Shevitz Party or something. He says his fundraiser page is still open, and it's going to go to building a viable progressive third party that isn't an embarrassment. And any Green Party chapters that are tired of having their resources wasted by the vanity candidates can disaffiliate and connect to Bernie's proven political operation (or what's left of it) and have him as the standard bearer instead of punch lines like Stein.
Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Imagine it's November 9th and Bernie Sanders calls a press conference to announce that he's forming his own third party. The Manny Shevitz Party or something. He says his fundraiser page is still open, and it's going to go to building a viable progressive third party that isn't an embarrassment. And any Green Party chapters that are tired of having their resources wasted by the vanity candidates can disaffiliate and connect to Bernie's proven political operation (or what's left of it) and have him as the standard bearer instead of punch lines like Stein.
Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
What's especially sad about that, R343L, is that the Greens could absolutely be a viable third party by running candidates at the local level in parts of the country that have a stronger progressive/liberal split than a liberal/conservative split. We could 100% be living in a country where the Greens held majorities in a couple state legislatures, formed the base of the city councils of places like San Francisco and Seattle, and probably held 4-5 seats in the House. Maybe even a senator or a governor.
And yet we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because the Greens just run a vanity candidate every four years and then take a nice nap.
I cannot favorite this enough
posted by Ber at 8:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
And yet we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because the Greens just run a vanity candidate every four years and then take a nice nap.
I cannot favorite this enough
posted by Ber at 8:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
If she changes networks I would hope to see her become neutral politically-wise but keep that edginess.I for one can't wait for CNN's annual War on Christmas Hour, hosted by one Megyn Kelly, where she can host an all-white panel on just how white Santa and Jesus are.
posted by xyzzy at 8:15 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because
We've run around these circles before; the entire system is geared toward making that irrelevant. Every third party run in my lifetime that got more than a few percent of the vote has been a vanity candidate. In that sense, the system is actually "rigged."
What's signally weird about Trump is he's essentially a third party candidate who picked a side.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
We've run around these circles before; the entire system is geared toward making that irrelevant. Every third party run in my lifetime that got more than a few percent of the vote has been a vanity candidate. In that sense, the system is actually "rigged."
What's signally weird about Trump is he's essentially a third party candidate who picked a side.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:22 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was promised good oppo and instead I get a discussion of Jill Stein's stock portfolio.
I guess I'll go watch Black Mirror and despair over the future of our civilization.
But first, some tweets from Sean Hannity, [sic]:
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I guess I'll go watch Black Mirror and despair over the future of our civilization.
But first, some tweets from Sean Hannity, [sic]:
Liberal media. It's was Josh Ernest who refuse to amswee teh ? Will Obama stay in the US if DT wins. I mentioned I'd pay a charter to .....Is this some kind of puzzle?
Liberal media 2 Any country they choose. 1- Canada where the satire piece was written Kenya where he visited http://gotnews.com/watch-never-seen-video-barackobama-kenya-released-wesearchr-prisonplanet/ … .....
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
So Donald Trump is descended from Swearengen. I don't know whether that gives me more respect for him or less.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:25 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Democratic candidate Clemmons up against Rob Bishop, is somewhat green, and for the Bear's Ears National Monument.
Someone has spent some money stupidly in Salt Lake City, putting up blue signs, without party affiliation. Driving at them they look like
HERBERT
TRUMP.
When you get closer they say HERBERT is TRUMP, but they might as well be for Republican Gary Herbert for governor, and Donald Trump for President. However I propose they get modified to say HERB & RUM. Fixed that for you. Really this is an example of how Republican, Utah is, that the Democrats' money got spent on a Herbert Trump ad.
posted by Oyéah at 8:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Someone has spent some money stupidly in Salt Lake City, putting up blue signs, without party affiliation. Driving at them they look like
HERBERT
TRUMP.
When you get closer they say HERBERT is TRUMP, but they might as well be for Republican Gary Herbert for governor, and Donald Trump for President. However I propose they get modified to say HERB & RUM. Fixed that for you. Really this is an example of how Republican, Utah is, that the Democrats' money got spent on a Herbert Trump ad.
posted by Oyéah at 8:27 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Democrats sue over GOP “poll watchers” [Lyle Denniston]
Arguing that the Republican National Committee is collaborating with the Donald Trump presidential campaign in an alleged effort to intimidate minority voters, the Democratic National Committee on Wednesday asked a federal judge in New Jersey to hold the GOP in contempt of court.posted by melissasaurus at 8:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
The main claim is that the GOP is violating a court order against such tactics, issued in 1982 and still in effect. The Supreme Court refused to disturb that order three years ago, turning aside a challenge to it by the RNC.
Serious question: do we actually need a third party on the left? Or are we better served by having those hardcore left progressives in the Democratic party? I honestly don't have an answer for this, it's not a rhetorical question.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 8:34 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump’s first 100 days—of non-presidency (MacLeans)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
like Egg McMuffin's short list of cabinet choices
Hardwood, softwood, or synthetic material?
I bet he's an oak sort of fellow.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hardwood, softwood, or synthetic material?
I bet he's an oak sort of fellow.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Jill Stein is running for President right now.
Huh. Who knew?
posted by notsnot at 8:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Huh. Who knew?
posted by notsnot at 8:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
If he is really ex-govt, then it is metal cabinets all the way, in neutral gray. Robots in the cabinet.
posted by Oyéah at 8:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:38 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Earlier in the day, the Polls had Utah C28, M29, T32, with a 4.? margin of error. That sounds like a dead heat to me.
posted by Oyéah at 8:43 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 8:43 PM on October 26, 2016
Did.. Did Sean Hannity get salty over a parody piece in (what is now a) right-wing rag Macleans?
posted by Yowser at 8:46 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by Yowser at 8:46 PM on October 26, 2016
For anyone who needs a little break from important election information like Stein's investment portfolio, and in honor of Irish National Maths Week*, why not take a couple of minutes and check out some real Hamiltonian** action:
*We needed some bit of justification here, no matter how flimsy . . .
**If you have no idea of what I'm talking about here, check out this or this, or better yet, start with this youtube video
posted by flug at 8:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
**If you have no idea of what I'm talking about here, check out this or this, or better yet, start with this youtube video
posted by flug at 8:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
...Whether or not you believe a person must feel disordered to receive treatment for a mental illness (I don’t), whether or not Donald Trump actually has narcissistic personality disorder (who knows), there is one important truth in this passage: Donald Trump certainly seems to function.We've Misdiagnosed the Problem with Donald Trump
And not only function. He excels. We can theorize all we want about the disorders that allow him to act in ways both divorced from reality and indifferent to the lives and rights of other human beings. But Trump is not encumbered by his pathological behavior. In fact he is often celebrated for it. You could argue that his pathologies helped him win one of our two major parties’ nominations for president.
This says more about us than it does about Trump and any mental disorder he might have.
posted by y2karl at 8:51 PM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
I honestly don't have an answer for this, it's not a rhetorical question.The right way to do this without trying to eliminate first-past-the-post and the EC is with Congressional caucuses that vote in lockstep. The progressive caucus has about 75 members and is by far the largest Democratic caucus. With a large enough caucus, more conservative Democrats get pressure from the left because the Democratic whip has less work to do if he can just grab 70+ members with a single meeting.
posted by xyzzy at 8:52 PM on October 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
And yet we can't have that very meaningful and viable third party because the Greens just run a vanity candidate every four years and then take a nice nap.
This is in part because the sorts of candidates a better-organized Green Party might want to run run as Democrats instead because they'd prefer to win.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
This is in part because the sorts of candidates a better-organized Green Party might want to run run as Democrats instead because they'd prefer to win.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:57 PM on October 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
On Lawrence O'Donnell: the Standing Rock Sioux will be protesting outside HRC's campaign headquarters tomorrow to pressure her to release a statement on DAPL.
posted by xyzzy at 8:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:58 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
Okay, my Green-Party friend's ears are probably bleeding, so I'mma just say these two things -
1. The Jill Stein vaccine stuff has been disproven, and
2. My buddy is the most stubbornly uber-faithful Green dude I know and even he says that he knows that Jill Stein isn't gonna win.
So, the anti-vax stuff is bogus and the mutual-fund stuff is a nothingburger.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
1. The Jill Stein vaccine stuff has been disproven, and
2. My buddy is the most stubbornly uber-faithful Green dude I know and even he says that he knows that Jill Stein isn't gonna win.
So, the anti-vax stuff is bogus and the mutual-fund stuff is a nothingburger.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:59 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Serious question: do we actually need a third party on the left? Or are we better served by having those hardcore left progressives in the Democratic party? I honestly don't have an answer for this, it's not a rhetorical question."
I campaigned for the Green candidate in Illinois in 2006 (against Blagojevich so a slightly odd year), when the Greens won 10% of the vote and were elevated to major party status in Illinois, and after the election I was almost immediately contacted by the state Democratic party and invited to a lot of events. (The first one was to meet Dick Durbin and talk about Green Party goals and how the Democrats could meet them.) A lot of local Greens moved into the Dems after 2006 (that was a weird election because Blago) and because of that, successfully blocked a local toxic waste dump expansion in a residential area.
I feel like the 2006 election brought the Greens to the attention of the Democrats locally, but I feel like the progressive and environmental wings of the party have been a lot more effective as Democrats. Personally I would not want to go back to the Greens (not least because of their anti-vax stance and their lack of local activism on environmental issues, such as wetlands preservation and anti-mining initiatives). So I feel like in a historically contingent fashion the Greens brought environmental issues to the Democrats' notice in 2006, but since then the Democrats have been a lot more responsive and effective on actually environmental and progressive issues in my area and state. The Democrats seem to know now that they have to respond to lefty activists locally, and I'm relatively satisfied with how they've done so. But I also think that's a fairly local thing -- are your local Dems willing to become responsive to Green/Progressive issues? If so, I expect you're better off in the Dems.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
I campaigned for the Green candidate in Illinois in 2006 (against Blagojevich so a slightly odd year), when the Greens won 10% of the vote and were elevated to major party status in Illinois, and after the election I was almost immediately contacted by the state Democratic party and invited to a lot of events. (The first one was to meet Dick Durbin and talk about Green Party goals and how the Democrats could meet them.) A lot of local Greens moved into the Dems after 2006 (that was a weird election because Blago) and because of that, successfully blocked a local toxic waste dump expansion in a residential area.
I feel like the 2006 election brought the Greens to the attention of the Democrats locally, but I feel like the progressive and environmental wings of the party have been a lot more effective as Democrats. Personally I would not want to go back to the Greens (not least because of their anti-vax stance and their lack of local activism on environmental issues, such as wetlands preservation and anti-mining initiatives). So I feel like in a historically contingent fashion the Greens brought environmental issues to the Democrats' notice in 2006, but since then the Democrats have been a lot more responsive and effective on actually environmental and progressive issues in my area and state. The Democrats seem to know now that they have to respond to lefty activists locally, and I'm relatively satisfied with how they've done so. But I also think that's a fairly local thing -- are your local Dems willing to become responsive to Green/Progressive issues? If so, I expect you're better off in the Dems.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
So, the Green Party (or another third party) doesn't have to win the presidency to be considered viable. A Green party that fielded and won part of Seattle's city council, lots of state house seats (totally possible) would have a great deal of very useful influence (since they'd probably caucus with the Democrats). They'd also be conveniently some place where they could advocate for things like ranked choice voting or whatever that would let them be even more viable.
But as noted, most people realize there's no real point in being in a third party and you can just be part of one of the main parties. Remember that thing about the Democrats being a big tent? So yeah.
posted by R343L at 9:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
But as noted, most people realize there's no real point in being in a third party and you can just be part of one of the main parties. Remember that thing about the Democrats being a big tent? So yeah.
posted by R343L at 9:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is in part because the sorts of candidates a better-organized Green Party might want to run run as Democrats instead because they'd prefer to win.
Exactly. If you're left of center and serious about politics you run as a Democrat (or in a very few exceptional cases as an independent affiliated with the Democrats). Anyone who runs as a Green is almost definitionally non-serious about doing anything. Your best case scenario is being utterly irrelevant. Your worst case is being a spoiler that gets someone ideological opposed to you on every level elected.
posted by Justinian at 9:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
Exactly. If you're left of center and serious about politics you run as a Democrat (or in a very few exceptional cases as an independent affiliated with the Democrats). Anyone who runs as a Green is almost definitionally non-serious about doing anything. Your best case scenario is being utterly irrelevant. Your worst case is being a spoiler that gets someone ideological opposed to you on every level elected.
posted by Justinian at 9:03 PM on October 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
formed the base of the city councils of places like San Francisco and Seattle
Both the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and Seattle City Council have non-partisan elections. Candidates can have open political affiliations, of course, but they can't run under a party banner or bootstrap that into ballot access for higher office. That's my one bit of sympathy for the US Green Party.
posted by holgate at 9:06 PM on October 26, 2016
Both the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and Seattle City Council have non-partisan elections. Candidates can have open political affiliations, of course, but they can't run under a party banner or bootstrap that into ballot access for higher office. That's my one bit of sympathy for the US Green Party.
posted by holgate at 9:06 PM on October 26, 2016
Sigh. Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in.
1. The Jill Stein vaccine stuff has been disproven,
I assume you're talking about this, but let me Snopes-check that for you.
2. My buddy is the most stubbornly uber-faithful Green dude I know and even he says that he knows that Jill Stein isn't gonna win.
Has the bar been lowered so much that understanding how math works is considered notable?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 PM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
1. The Jill Stein vaccine stuff has been disproven,
I assume you're talking about this, but let me Snopes-check that for you.
2. My buddy is the most stubbornly uber-faithful Green dude I know and even he says that he knows that Jill Stein isn't gonna win.
Has the bar been lowered so much that understanding how math works is considered notable?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 PM on October 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
No, tony - my point was that when even the party faithful are saying "eh, who gives a shit, she's not gonna win", then there is no longer a reason to convince people not to vote for her, so....why are we suddenly talking about her?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:11 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Same reason people keep talking about that Dilbert guy, no doubt.
posted by indubitable at 9:14 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by indubitable at 9:14 PM on October 26, 2016
Because it's MetaFilter, and we can even overthink a plate with a 0.00000037% solution of beans.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:15 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:15 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
And today, Stein is the hill of beans we're willing to die on
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:17 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
0.00000037% solution of beans That is not a soy milk I would buy. I keep looking at the papers, waiting for something awful to happen. It is awful enough that I have Paula Jones popping up in my Facebook, talking about kissing Richard Clinton. I keep waiting for some single point of focus awfulness, and the whole thing is just awful, and terrifying. We just had the most normal family in the White House, ever. And though the world seems edgier than usual, the constant drumbeat of stupid stimulations, is getting to me. We are in the lobby of world events that have not yet fallen like balloons of death. We are waiting and making small talk at the end of the world.
posted by Oyéah at 9:20 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 9:20 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, when did the Holographic Multiiverse start to turn into a Jack Chick [on acid] comic book about the AntiChrist ?
posted by y2karl at 9:22 PM on October 26, 2016
posted by y2karl at 9:22 PM on October 26, 2016
Coming next: Some people are talking about Yezidi Sharia and the gnomes of Zurich. Spooky.
posted by y2karl at 9:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 9:23 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because it's MetaFilter, and we can even overthink a plate with a 0.00000037% solution of beans.
If you're thinking of homeopathy, that's way too concentrated a solution. "Strong" homeopathic solutions, which is to say more diluted ones, are more along the lines of one cubic centimeter of Ingredient dissolved in a cube of water several light-years on a side.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
If you're thinking of homeopathy, that's way too concentrated a solution. "Strong" homeopathic solutions, which is to say more diluted ones, are more along the lines of one cubic centimeter of Ingredient dissolved in a cube of water several light-years on a side.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Guys, it's going to be okay. Take a deep breath... and think calming thoughts. Watch the highlights of the DNC again. Watch Tim Kaine play a harmonica. Read this editorial. Watch kitten videos. It's gonna be ok.
*goes off to listen to Bob Marley*
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 9:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
*goes off to listen to Bob Marley*
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 9:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
why are we suddenly talking about her?
I expect a lot of people have at least one person directly or indirectly in their social-media feeds who just won't shut up about her.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
I expect a lot of people have at least one person directly or indirectly in their social-media feeds who just won't shut up about her.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:43 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
The Yale Daily News endorsed a candidate today: Hillary Clinton LAW ’73 for President (they've issued endorsements in at least the past few Presidential elections). This caused the Daily Caller to get all upset, because YDN is published by a 501(c)3 organization, a complaint that comes up with some student newspaper every election year. This isn't quite so clear cut of an issue, as there is a revenue ruling from the 70s that says non-profit university-owned student newspapers can do political endorsements, as long as they come from the students, because such papers serve an educational purpose of their own. YDN is a bit different though, as it is an independent publication with its own 501(c)3, so that doesn't directly apply. They also have an ample supply of lawyers who would presumably be willing to represent them against the IRS.
As a result of this little fuss, the oldest humor magazine in the world per Wikipedia, the Yale Record, felt compelled to respond: The Yale Record Does Not Endorse Hillary Clinton:
As a result of this little fuss, the oldest humor magazine in the world per Wikipedia, the Yale Record, felt compelled to respond: The Yale Record Does Not Endorse Hillary Clinton:
In its 144-year history, The Yale Record has never endorsed a Democratic candidate for president. In fact, we have never endorsed any candidate for president. This is, in part, due to our strong commitment to being a tax-exempt 501(c)3 organization, which mandates that we are “absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.”posted by zachlipton at 9:46 PM on October 26, 2016 [128 favorites]
This year’s presidential election is highly unusual, but ultimately no different: The Yale Record believes both candidates to be equally un-endorsable, due to our faithful compliance with the tax code.
In particular, we do not endorse Hillary Clinton’s exemplary leadership during her 30 years in the public eye. We do not support her impressive commitment to serving and improving this country—a commitment to which she has dedicated her entire professional career. Because of unambiguous tax law, we do not encourage you to support the most qualified presidential candidate in modern American history, nor do we encourage all citizens to shatter the glass ceiling once and for all by electing Secretary Clinton on November 8.
The Yale Record has no opinion whatsoever on Dr. Jill Stein.
—The Editorial Board of The Yale Record
Whether or not you believe a person must feel disordered to receive treatment for a mental illness (I don’t), whether or not Donald Trump actually has narcissistic personality disorder (who knows), there is one important truth in this passage: Donald Trump certainly seems to function.Because he's rich. That's a very important factor at play. If he were homeless, none of those characteristics would be celebrated. I saw lots of people with different personality disorders living in poverty, and nothing about their disorders helped them. But Trump was born into privilege and has been sheltered from consequence by his wealth his whole life. In fact, we've looked at length at the fact that he's actually a very bad businessman who should be doing much, much better than he presumably is based on how much money he's lost.
And not only function. He excels. We can theorize all we want about the disorders that allow him to act in ways both divorced from reality and indifferent to the lives and rights of other human beings. But Trump is not encumbered by his pathological behavior. In fact he is often celebrated for it.
There are some disorders that can be helpful to success up to a certain point, sure. Sociopathy and narcissism can be among them at times. But what tends to happen over someone's lifetime is that eventually they get unlucky, or their disease gets worse and they crash or spiral down or whatever. I saw a lot of people in their 50s who had obviously experienced symptoms of, say, bipolar disorder their entire lives but only got treatment after their illness caused them to lose everything. A lot of people only get diagnosed after they hit rock bottom/get in trouble with the law/are hospitalized due to extreme psychosis.
But Trump has been protected and coddled all his life. He could lose a billion dollars in a year and no one said anything bad about him for it. Whereas if one of my clients wrote a hot check they were taken to jail.
It's not that narcissists are extra successful, it's just that no one talks about the person living alone in a trailer park whose family won't speak to them anymore. People don't make movies and TV shows about that person. So we think narcissists and sociopaths are successful because those are the people we see with those traits. But really, most of them are just miserable, lonely people.
posted by threeturtles at 9:54 PM on October 26, 2016 [64 favorites]
so....why are we suddenly talking about her?
Oh come now. Surely we can spend say, 2% of this thread to talk about Stein.That would be what, 50 posts?
Anyway, just talking about Trump is getting tedious. Let's season this thread with a pinch of a different lunacy.
posted by happyroach at 10:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh come now. Surely we can spend say, 2% of this thread to talk about Stein.That would be what, 50 posts?
Anyway, just talking about Trump is getting tedious. Let's season this thread with a pinch of a different lunacy.
posted by happyroach at 10:01 PM on October 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
WI Dems Request DOJ Poll Monitors After Voter ID Chaos, 'Rigged Election' Talk
posted by Chrysostom at 10:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:02 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh come now. Surely we can spend say, 2% of this thread to talk about Stein.That would be what, 50 posts?
NO. That would be 50 *COMMENTS* on a single POST.
I don't mean to shout, but post/comment confusion is the number one crisis facing America - indeed, the world - today.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
NO. That would be 50 *COMMENTS* on a single POST.
I don't mean to shout, but post/comment confusion is the number one crisis facing America - indeed, the world - today.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
A Green party that fielded and won part of Seattle's city council, lots of state house seats (totally possible) would have a great deal of very useful influence (since they'd probably caucus with the Democrats). They'd also be conveniently some place where they could advocate for things like ranked choice voting or whatever that would let them be even more viable.
Yeah, support for less terrible voting schemes is something third parties/independents would be more likely to fight for. Interestingly, what you're describing has actually kind of been happening in Vermont, but with the Progressive Party, not the Greens -- they actually succeeded in getting instant runoff voting passed for the mayoral election in Burlington (VT's biggest city, such as it is), but it got repealed five years later, after a close (and arguably kind of pathological) three-way election.
(Approval voting seems quite a bit better than ranked-choice voting to me but of course, all voting systems fail in some ways.)
posted by en forme de poire at 10:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, support for less terrible voting schemes is something third parties/independents would be more likely to fight for. Interestingly, what you're describing has actually kind of been happening in Vermont, but with the Progressive Party, not the Greens -- they actually succeeded in getting instant runoff voting passed for the mayoral election in Burlington (VT's biggest city, such as it is), but it got repealed five years later, after a close (and arguably kind of pathological) three-way election.
(Approval voting seems quite a bit better than ranked-choice voting to me but of course, all voting systems fail in some ways.)
posted by en forme de poire at 10:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
UT Poll shows Trump with a 3 point lead in TX (+-3)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:05 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
Epic Rap Battles of History: Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton
I liked their Romney vs. Obama battle (previously) better overall, but interestingly they didn't go for the mealy-mouthed both-sides cop-out ending this time.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
I liked their Romney vs. Obama battle (previously) better overall, but interestingly they didn't go for the mealy-mouthed both-sides cop-out ending this time.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [11 favorites]
don't mean to shout, but post/comment confusion is the number one crisis facing America - indeed, the world - today.
Another rigged system: The unseen hands of archon mods rewriting the future. Sad!
posted by y2karl at 10:35 PM on October 26, 2016
Another rigged system: The unseen hands of archon mods rewriting the future. Sad!
posted by y2karl at 10:35 PM on October 26, 2016
Trump’s Post-Election Reality Could Be a Nightmare
...let’s be high-handed and slothful and treat Trump’s loss as a given. What’s his next chapter? The effects of Trump will linger, of course, and others will try to re-create his coalition. If you agree with Peggy Noonan that a controlled and sane Trump would easily have won the election—it’s a big counter-factual, but it’s the central question for Republicans (and an important one for Democrats) moving forward—then you’ll run for office stealing many of his issues and positions. But there’s also the man himself. He’s not the sort to disappear. He’s also not the sort to fail on a massive scale and then go back to normal as if nothing happened. So we’ve got some contradictions to deal with.posted by kirkaracha at 10:39 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Let’s consider some Trump scenarios going forward.
Oh, Texas. Being down maybe 3-4ish on unprecedented early voter numbers in an unprecedented year is like that bunch of grapes dangling above the head of Tantalus.
Team Hillary will surely have internal polls and early voting reports to see whether it's worth a symbolic visit (or a head-fake one) or whether they should just focus relentlessly on GOTV and see where that leaves them. Time is precious, and I'm sure much of next week's schedule for HRC is already pencilled in, if not yet public. HRC and POTUS or FLOTUS in Atlanta seems more likely, but if Michelle fancies a trip to Houston, then why not? Trump's going to be in Maine on Friday, snuffling around for a single EV.
posted by holgate at 10:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Team Hillary will surely have internal polls and early voting reports to see whether it's worth a symbolic visit (or a head-fake one) or whether they should just focus relentlessly on GOTV and see where that leaves them. Time is precious, and I'm sure much of next week's schedule for HRC is already pencilled in, if not yet public. HRC and POTUS or FLOTUS in Atlanta seems more likely, but if Michelle fancies a trip to Houston, then why not? Trump's going to be in Maine on Friday, snuffling around for a single EV.
posted by holgate at 10:47 PM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's like Ralph Nader having a large investment in DOW or GM.
Actually, Ralph Nader is obsessed with stocks and trades with the funds of his non-profits.
posted by msalt at 11:01 PM on October 26, 2016
Actually, Ralph Nader is obsessed with stocks and trades with the funds of his non-profits.
posted by msalt at 11:01 PM on October 26, 2016
Clinton "only" has a 16% chance of winning Texas, according to 538 (poll average looks like 49.0% Trump, 43.5% Clinton, 5.9% Johnson).
Incidentally, those numbers are eerily close to her husband's performance in 1996, which was 48.8% Dole, 43.8% Clinton, 6.7% Perot.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:10 PM on October 26, 2016
Incidentally, those numbers are eerily close to her husband's performance in 1996, which was 48.8% Dole, 43.8% Clinton, 6.7% Perot.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:10 PM on October 26, 2016
I bet it was Jill Stein standing there
posted by Sara C. at 11:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [49 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 11:35 PM on October 26, 2016 [49 favorites]
If only one out of a thousand cars honks, the effect is even stronger!
posted by mmoncur at 11:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [68 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 11:37 PM on October 26, 2016 [68 favorites]
According to Lou Dobbs of Fox News, Eggo McLeggo is a tool of the "Mormon Mafia".
I looked at Dobbs' Twitter feed and it's literally crazy. How does this man have a job?
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I looked at Dobbs' Twitter feed and it's literally crazy. How does this man have a job?
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
If only one out of a thousand cars honks, the effect is even stronger!
Please. With homeopathy jokes, less is more.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [63 favorites]
Please. With homeopathy jokes, less is more.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [63 favorites]
> "POSSIBLY THE PARTY OF NO SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERED DEALING WITH THE PUERTO RICAN DEBT CRISIS RATHER THAN JUST OBSTRUCTING EVERYTHING FOR SPITE."
This ... is weirdly heartening to read. I'm so glad that some people, somewhere, actually care. Even if it's at least in part because it affected them directly. The blatant obstructionism, naked extremism, and relentless do-nothingism of the Republicans in Congress have gotten them hardly any blowback. They have thrown an eight-year tantrum and the country is falling apart as a result, up to and including the goddamn Supreme Court, and almost half the U.S. seems to *like* it. Grassley is going to cruise to re-election. Heck, most of the House and Senate republicans are going to retain their seats without a problem. Yes, a big part of this is gerrymandering, but another part is that a huge chunk of the electorate is shrugging their shoulders at, or actively cheering on, a form of politics that is outright deranged. So I am super-glad that there is at least one example of a way that this could actually, finally, bite them in the ass.
posted by kyrademon at 1:34 AM on October 27, 2016 [50 favorites]
This ... is weirdly heartening to read. I'm so glad that some people, somewhere, actually care. Even if it's at least in part because it affected them directly. The blatant obstructionism, naked extremism, and relentless do-nothingism of the Republicans in Congress have gotten them hardly any blowback. They have thrown an eight-year tantrum and the country is falling apart as a result, up to and including the goddamn Supreme Court, and almost half the U.S. seems to *like* it. Grassley is going to cruise to re-election. Heck, most of the House and Senate republicans are going to retain their seats without a problem. Yes, a big part of this is gerrymandering, but another part is that a huge chunk of the electorate is shrugging their shoulders at, or actively cheering on, a form of politics that is outright deranged. So I am super-glad that there is at least one example of a way that this could actually, finally, bite them in the ass.
posted by kyrademon at 1:34 AM on October 27, 2016 [50 favorites]
Guys. Guys. So I'm going to vote tomorrow and I'm looking through my local races like the good citizen I am. And, so, as I go, the Green party candidates are just getting more and more BATSHIT INSANE. From the guy who doesn't recognize the authority of the government of America to umm, this guy. Warning, that is a video of a tattooed and bearded man in his underwear smearing baby oil all over himself while he moans about the law. And I just watched that from the League of Women Voter's site. Seriously, I don't recommend watching it. It's ten minutes of a guy rubbing himself while he says "I'm what you want. I'm what you NEED." He's running for Judge in the Texas Criminal Court of Appeals.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't take the Green Party seriously.
posted by threeturtles at 1:54 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
I don't know why anyone wouldn't take the Green Party seriously.
posted by threeturtles at 1:54 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
According to Lou Dobbs of Fox News, Eggo McLeggo is a tool of the "Mormon Mafia".
Dobbs knows tools what with being a tool himself.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:00 AM on October 27, 2016
Dobbs knows tools what with being a tool himself.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:00 AM on October 27, 2016
Destruction of Walk Of Fame star leaves Donald Trump down to his last six Horcruxes
posted by kyrademon at 3:01 AM on October 27, 2016 [82 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 3:01 AM on October 27, 2016 [82 favorites]
Ugh, I get that the DNC has identified white women voters as the demographic to get them past the finish line, but I could do with a lot more diversity in my oppo drops. It's starting to trivialize both his misogyny and everything's else that makes him repugnant: racism, xenophobia, corruption, tax evasion, and everything else I've blocked from my memory this election season.
posted by instamatic at 3:24 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by instamatic at 3:24 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just the other day NBC found his formal rental agent talking about his racism. It didn't become a big story. They're dropping it, we're just not picking it up.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 3:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Threeturtles, WT-EVERLOVING-F IS UP WITH THAT GUY? I just, I can't, like, seriously, I just, I... I should just try to go to bed, but I'm afraid to shut my eyes now.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 3:48 AM on October 27, 2016
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 3:48 AM on October 27, 2016
> "I could do with a lot more diversity in my oppo drops."
Oh, there's been others. In the past day or so there was the report about his dad and him telling one of their rental agents that they don't rent to n******. And a likely $17 million dollar insurance fraud in Florida. It's just that there's literally so much wrong with Trump that it's hard to keep track.
posted by kyrademon at 3:54 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
Oh, there's been others. In the past day or so there was the report about his dad and him telling one of their rental agents that they don't rent to n******. And a likely $17 million dollar insurance fraud in Florida. It's just that there's literally so much wrong with Trump that it's hard to keep track.
posted by kyrademon at 3:54 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
It's just that there's literally so much wrong with Trump that it's hard to keep track.
I got banned from r/politics ( no big loss. I've been thrown out of better clubs before ) for posting this question TOO often, which distills this into its essence.
I got banned from r/politics ( no big loss. I've been thrown out of better clubs before ) for posting this question TOO often, which distills this into its essence.
THERE ARE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER DONALD J. TRUMP RAPED A 13 YEAR OLD GIRL.posted by mikelieman at 4:21 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Everything else is bullshit really, isn't it?
Sorry, I guess I should have said (since I did see all of those) that the relentless press focus on OMGTEHWIMMINZ feels manipulative and creepy in and of itself. Speaking as that theoretical target demographic, yes, it was important to know about his misogyny, but dammit, I am already sitting here fairly near the top of the privilege mountain. Stop pandering to me! Where for pandering I guess I mean some combination of overprioritizing this particular weakness/evil as all important and also stop with the exploitation of "women, are they pets or meat?" (As so eloquently described a few threads back.)
posted by instamatic at 4:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by instamatic at 4:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ugh, I get that the DNC has identified white women voters as the demographic to get them past the finish line, but I could do with a lot more diversity in my oppo drops. It's starting to trivialize both his misogyny and everything's else that makes him repugnant: racism, xenophobia, corruption, tax evasion, and everything else I've blocked from my memory this election season.
The oppo drops coming from Clinton herself aren't just about white women. Khizr Khan is not a white woman. Alicia Machado is latina. The Trump tax returns aren't about white women. Calling him Putin's Puppet and getting him to repeat "No Puppet" like a six year old isn't about white women.
David A Fahrenthold's investigation into the Trump Foundation isn't about white women.
The white women oppo drops like the Trump Tapes, however, get a disproportionate amount of play.
posted by Francis at 4:31 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
The oppo drops coming from Clinton herself aren't just about white women. Khizr Khan is not a white woman. Alicia Machado is latina. The Trump tax returns aren't about white women. Calling him Putin's Puppet and getting him to repeat "No Puppet" like a six year old isn't about white women.
David A Fahrenthold's investigation into the Trump Foundation isn't about white women.
The white women oppo drops like the Trump Tapes, however, get a disproportionate amount of play.
posted by Francis at 4:31 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
So Donald Trump is descended from Swearengen. I don't know whether that gives me more respect for him or less.
Hey, now. Swearengen's got actual brains and morals. Try to imagine Trump in the dying preacher scene. Or getting to the point where he could murder a magistrate rather than bribe him, much less come up with as great a line as "No, those are the days to my fuckin' left" before doing so.
The white women oppo drops like the Trump Tapes, however, get a disproportionate amount of play.
That's the part that gives me pause. Literally declaring to the country that he wants to torture Muslim women and children (something Swearingen wouldn't do, and maybe we need WWSD bracelets for the candidates) had zero negative effect on his polling numbers, but admitting to sexually assaulting pretty, thin white women did. I'm glad this election is shining a light on this stuff, but good lord are the implications of that ugly.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:22 AM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
Hey, now. Swearengen's got actual brains and morals. Try to imagine Trump in the dying preacher scene. Or getting to the point where he could murder a magistrate rather than bribe him, much less come up with as great a line as "No, those are the days to my fuckin' left" before doing so.
The white women oppo drops like the Trump Tapes, however, get a disproportionate amount of play.
That's the part that gives me pause. Literally declaring to the country that he wants to torture Muslim women and children (something Swearingen wouldn't do, and maybe we need WWSD bracelets for the candidates) had zero negative effect on his polling numbers, but admitting to sexually assaulting pretty, thin white women did. I'm glad this election is shining a light on this stuff, but good lord are the implications of that ugly.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:22 AM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
Yes, exactly! And everyone seems to be accepting that coverage as normal, and salivating over the next Apprentice candidate/Playboy model/journalist/random woman at a bar that pops up. Kissing someone against their will is bad, don't get me wrong, and the implications of having a President with that view of women are far-reaching. I get that. But press! You've covered it! I get it! MOVE ON.
posted by instamatic at 5:27 AM on October 27, 2016
posted by instamatic at 5:27 AM on October 27, 2016
@YasminNouh: There's dangerous rhetoric being used by both parties on American Muslims and it needs to be called out. (video)
posted by bardophile at 5:31 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 5:31 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Trump Surprises Wife Melania With News That She’ll Make ‘Two or Three Speeches’ in Final Weeks
Good Morning America cohost George Stephanopoulos sat down for an exclusive interview with GOP nominee Donald Trump and his wife Melania [...]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
Stephanopoulos asked the potential FLOTUS about the energy and enthusiasm surrounding her husband’s candidacy. “Does it make you want to get out there yourself and help him out in the final two weeks?”
“We will see,” Melania Trump responded. “My priority is my son Barron and I support [my husband] 100% and I’m there for him every time he needs me.”[...]
“She is actually going to make two or three speeches,” Trump said.
“Oh!” exclaimed Melania Trump.
“Making some news right there!” joked Stephanopoulos in the moment.Trump continued with the apparently brand new plan that seemed to be invented on the spot, saying, “She’s amazing when she speaks. She is an amazing public speaker. She’s agreed to do two or three speeches, and I think it’s going to be big speeches, important speeches.”
Beth Reinhard: At ‘Poll Watcher Training’ Class, Republicans Trade Rumors, Fears of Fraud
I swear to Dog, if the GOP gets out of this without the consent decree preventing this exact behavior having been extended another eight years, I'm going to be very upset.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [43 favorites]
Carol Loulis of Reston didn’t hesitate when asked her biggest concern. “Illegals voting,” she said, adding that she saw people voting in 2012 who didn’t appear to speak English. “I definitely should have called the attention of the election officials, but I think I let it go.”This is reprehensible, It's pretty clear these poll watchers are going to be using false information to cause trouble at polling places. They know that, at the very least, their presence and almost religious belief in stuff that doesn't actually happen will prevent people from voting due to longer lines and/or fear of being caught up in some (falsified) challenge.
Ms. Hendrix agreed that stopping illegal immigrants from voting was a top priority. “The president brings them into the country, and everything is organized,” she said. “Of course, if Luis Hernandez comes into the polling place and he has ID that shows the right address and everything matches up, so be it.”
Mr. George told a story he had heard on a conservative radio talk show that morning, in which a voter’s absentee ballot mailing included Democratic Party propaganda. “It doesn’t get much worse than that,” Mr. George said. “It was stuffed at the local election board.”
The would-be poll watchers nodded their heads.
But the Fairfax County Democratic Party said the story, which was also posted on a conservative web site, wasn’t true. Lists of people who request absentee ballots are available to the public, and campaigns and parties routinely request those lists so they can contact those voters. Sometimes the absentee ballot and the partisan advertising arrives on the same day, party officials said.
“With Donald Trump feeding into the paranoia that massive voter fraud is happening, that the election is rigged, that people are going to vote ten times, and telling his supporters to watch other communities, it’s no wonder that Republicans are going to believe the worst conspiracy theories, no matter how easily debunked,” said Frank Anderson, executive director of the Fairfax County Democratic Party. “I’m sorry to hear that well-meaning people on the other side are being led to believe these things by their nominee.”
I swear to Dog, if the GOP gets out of this without the consent decree preventing this exact behavior having been extended another eight years, I'm going to be very upset.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [43 favorites]
Bloomberg Inside the Trump Bunker, With 12 Days to Go
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Almost every public and private metric suggests Trump is headed for a loss, possibly an epic one. His frustrated demeanor on the campaign trail suggests he knows it. Yet even as he nears the end of his presidential run, his team is sowing the seeds of a new enterprise with a direct marketing effort that they insist could still shock the world on Election Day.I wonder if this is more a Kushner-Bannon dream than a Trump dream. At this point Donald seems more like a figure head than someone who is building a major political movement.
Beginning last November, then ramping up in earnest when Trump became the Republican nominee, Kushner quietly built a sprawling digital fundraising database and social media campaign that’s become the locus of his father-in-law’s presidential bid. Trump’s top advisers won’t concede the possibility of defeat, but they’re candid about the value of what they’ve built even after the returns come in—and about Trump’s desire for influence regardless of outcome. “Trump is a builder,” says Bannon, in a rare interview. “And what he’s built is the underlying apparatus for a political movement that’s going to propel us to victory on Nov. 8 and dominate Republican politics after that.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Now Trump's big mouth is writing checks Melanie can't cash. I officially feel sorry for her if he just came up with her making speeches out of nowhere and holds her to it.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 6:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Having grown up amongst a lot of evangelicals, I agree. Short walk from "really old book straight from God" to "really old document straight from God."
It may have been on one of NPR's "divided nation" segments, but they spoke to someone who was claiming in earnest that the Constitution was inspired by God Himself, and that of course the Founders were all Christians who intentionally encoded America's status as a Christian nation into the document.
So while the attitude is certainly there, there's also an ironic amount of, ah, re-interpretation going on as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
It may have been on one of NPR's "divided nation" segments, but they spoke to someone who was claiming in earnest that the Constitution was inspired by God Himself, and that of course the Founders were all Christians who intentionally encoded America's status as a Christian nation into the document.
So while the attitude is certainly there, there's also an ironic amount of, ah, re-interpretation going on as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
WSJ At ‘Poll Watcher Training’ Class, Republicans Trade Rumors, Fears of Fraud
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [25 favorites]
“You’ve got to use common sense,” he told the group. “If you think the voter is a Democrat, that’s not a reason to halt the process or challenge the voter.”So "if you think the voter is a Democrat, that's not a reason to halt the process." Gee. Thanks for that, guys. I really appreciate you letting me cast a vote for my choice of candidates.
Yet Mr. George described a variety of potential voting improprieties that he said are orchestrated by liberal groups: People taking pictures of themselves with their ballots so they can be rewarded for their Democratic votes by a union leader or public housing staffer. Ex-felons who have not gotten their rights restored demanding access to the polls. Union and civil rights leaders coercing severely disabled people into voting.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [25 favorites]
I officially feel sorry for her
My feels are busy elsewhere, where they're more needed and deserved.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:25 AM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
My feels are busy elsewhere, where they're more needed and deserved.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:25 AM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy I wonder if this is more a Kushner-Bannon dream than a Trump dream. At this point Donald seems more like a figure head than someone who is building a major political movement.
If the pictures of his staff are any indication, he's definitely their tie-tying role model. I mean, what the hell?
New campaign motto: Longer Together
posted by rp at 6:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
If the pictures of his staff are any indication, he's definitely their tie-tying role model. I mean, what the hell?
New campaign motto: Longer Together
posted by rp at 6:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Home with sick kid, saw two anti-Clinton ads that were about a. Benghazi and b. Clinton Foundation Takes Money From Muslim Extremists (I guess they mean Saudi Arabia? It was unclear). Then George Stephanapoulous interviewed the Trump spawn and I switched over to see Dr. Phil interviewing someone about the Chandra Levy case. Is he a journalist now? I guess it doesn't matter?
Daytime TV, ya'll. I wonder if those ads have any impact? They are mighty long on ominous music and Implied Evil, short on facts.
posted by emjaybee at 6:27 AM on October 27, 2016
Daytime TV, ya'll. I wonder if those ads have any impact? They are mighty long on ominous music and Implied Evil, short on facts.
posted by emjaybee at 6:27 AM on October 27, 2016
This is the first Clinton Foundation document that makes me think there might be something to the "pay-for-play" claims: Inside ‘Bill Clinton Inc.’: Hacked memo reveals intersection of charity and personal income
It's worth reading all the way through, but the source document is a memo written by a consultant laying out what a good job he's done for the Clintons by bundling donations to the foundation with payments for Bill's speaking engagements and other for-profit services.
It's also the origin of the memo that was leaked a month or so ago that called Chelsea a "spoiled brat" -- she was raising concerns about this activity and part of the reaction was insults.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's worth reading all the way through, but the source document is a memo written by a consultant laying out what a good job he's done for the Clintons by bundling donations to the foundation with payments for Bill's speaking engagements and other for-profit services.
It's also the origin of the memo that was leaked a month or so ago that called Chelsea a "spoiled brat" -- she was raising concerns about this activity and part of the reaction was insults.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
(I should add, of course, that this article still doesn't show a link between donations to the foundation, or even payments to Bill directly, and favorable treatment from State. But it does at least show how donations to the foundation could enrich the Clintons, which Hillary's opponents had so far been claiming based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever.)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:34 AM on October 27, 2016
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:34 AM on October 27, 2016
Honestly, the craziest thing in the poll watcher class article is:
"Yet Mr. George described a variety of potential voting improprieties that he said are orchestrated by liberal groups: People taking pictures of themselves with their ballots so they can be rewarded for their Democratic votes by a union leader or public housing staffer."
Seriously? That's totally nonsense. The illegal immigrant thing is at least racism, which I expect, but "ballot selfies to get paid by the unions?" That's totally fucking nuts.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
"Yet Mr. George described a variety of potential voting improprieties that he said are orchestrated by liberal groups: People taking pictures of themselves with their ballots so they can be rewarded for their Democratic votes by a union leader or public housing staffer."
Seriously? That's totally nonsense. The illegal immigrant thing is at least racism, which I expect, but "ballot selfies to get paid by the unions?" That's totally fucking nuts.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
I officially feel sorry for her if he just came up with her making speeches out of nowhere and holds her to it.
She knew what she was getting into when she signed the marriage contract.
posted by Artw at 6:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
She knew what she was getting into when she signed the marriage contract.
posted by Artw at 6:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Seriously? That's totally nonsense. The illegal immigrant thing is at least racism, which I expect, but "ballot selfies to get paid by the unions?" That's totally fucking nuts.
[WHATYEARISIT.JPG]
As if a union could afford to pay for votes in 2016.
posted by Talez at 6:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [49 favorites]
[WHATYEARISIT.JPG]
As if a union could afford to pay for votes in 2016.
posted by Talez at 6:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [49 favorites]
This is the first Clinton Foundation document that makes me think there might be something to the "pay-for-play" claims
It's one of those things I actually do think happens in some measure, and even were it not, the appearance of it being so is undeniably present. I don't think it's in any way limited to the Clinton camp however, just one of those rotten elements inherent in our current system, so, for me, it isn't much of a starter for outrage even if it true.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:48 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's one of those things I actually do think happens in some measure, and even were it not, the appearance of it being so is undeniably present. I don't think it's in any way limited to the Clinton camp however, just one of those rotten elements inherent in our current system, so, for me, it isn't much of a starter for outrage even if it true.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:48 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
She knew what she was getting into when she signed the marriage contract.
Which was probably a life of leisure as a trophy wife, not hitting the trail on a campaign that is dousing itself in gasoline and lighting a match.
posted by PenDevil at 6:51 AM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
Which was probably a life of leisure as a trophy wife, not hitting the trail on a campaign that is dousing itself in gasoline and lighting a match.
posted by PenDevil at 6:51 AM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
Now Trump's big mouth is writing checks Melanie can't cash. I officially feel sorry for her if he just came up with her making speeches out of nowhere and holds her to it.
And of course she probably can't help but remember that the last time Trump made her give a big speech, the camaign totally fucking hung her out to dry by giving her text lifted from Michele Obama.
posted by dersins at 6:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
And of course she probably can't help but remember that the last time Trump made her give a big speech, the camaign totally fucking hung her out to dry by giving her text lifted from Michele Obama.
posted by dersins at 6:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Melania accused the People magazine writer who Trump alllegedly harassed of being a liar. No idea why she's constantly given sympathy and benefit of the doubt.
posted by zutalors! at 6:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 6:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [32 favorites]
Which was probably a life of leisure as a trophy wife, not hitting the trail on a campaign that is dousing itself in gasoline and lighting a match.
The whims of Donald Trump were still a part of it - he's clearly a man who is always going through a meltdown of some kind and lashing out at others.
posted by Artw at 6:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
The whims of Donald Trump were still a part of it - he's clearly a man who is always going through a meltdown of some kind and lashing out at others.
posted by Artw at 6:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Washington Post article is the closest to a somethingburger out of all the WikiLeaks. The problem is I can't summarize it. I think what we're learning is that lots of companies donated to the Clinton Foundation and, at the same time, paid Bill Clinton (or paid his living expenses) in return for getting him to be honorary chair or private meetings or whatever the-former-president-is-a-friend-of-mine type of emoluments corporate types love.
There is zero evidence that Bill dipped into Clinton Foundation funds, just that simultaneously hitting up Dow for donations to the Foundation and helicopter rides for Bill was kind of sleazy. And Chelsea thought so (and I agree).
Then there is Teneo, the corporate consulting firm. If I understand it right, Douglas Band, a Bill Clinton aide founded this corporate consulting firm and brought with him all the contacts he'd made by working for the Clinton Foundation. One of his marketing angles was access to Bill Clinton. Not policy access to Hillary, just the chance to hire Bill as Honorary Chair or your best buddy for a day.
Then Band felt skeevy about how much his work, the Foundation's work, and Bill Clinton's lifestyle were all drawing on the same contacts. The memo is explaining his misgivings.
Chelsea read her dad the riot act and got him to return all but $100,000 of the money Teneo was paying him.
The question is: Was the Clinton Foundation such a scam, such a money-maker for Hillary, that she should have divested from it and him? It's hard to see how. Bill says to Dow: "Donate money to the Foundation, and hire me as a consultant." I don't see the quid pro quo here. And of course, the Trump campaign is not competent enough to prosecute it in a way that makes sense.
But there is something here. Bill Clinton is too much of a player, and having him involved in the White House is unnerving. I would like to see him entirely divulge and divest his holdings and never ever talk to his corporate golf buddies while Hillary is president. But I fear the worst.
posted by argybarg at 7:01 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
There is zero evidence that Bill dipped into Clinton Foundation funds, just that simultaneously hitting up Dow for donations to the Foundation and helicopter rides for Bill was kind of sleazy. And Chelsea thought so (and I agree).
Then there is Teneo, the corporate consulting firm. If I understand it right, Douglas Band, a Bill Clinton aide founded this corporate consulting firm and brought with him all the contacts he'd made by working for the Clinton Foundation. One of his marketing angles was access to Bill Clinton. Not policy access to Hillary, just the chance to hire Bill as Honorary Chair or your best buddy for a day.
Then Band felt skeevy about how much his work, the Foundation's work, and Bill Clinton's lifestyle were all drawing on the same contacts. The memo is explaining his misgivings.
Chelsea read her dad the riot act and got him to return all but $100,000 of the money Teneo was paying him.
The question is: Was the Clinton Foundation such a scam, such a money-maker for Hillary, that she should have divested from it and him? It's hard to see how. Bill says to Dow: "Donate money to the Foundation, and hire me as a consultant." I don't see the quid pro quo here. And of course, the Trump campaign is not competent enough to prosecute it in a way that makes sense.
But there is something here. Bill Clinton is too much of a player, and having him involved in the White House is unnerving. I would like to see him entirely divulge and divest his holdings and never ever talk to his corporate golf buddies while Hillary is president. But I fear the worst.
posted by argybarg at 7:01 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Trump Campaign Unveils Real Strategy: Discouraging Democratic Turnout
The actual approach being discussed in this article - using Wikileaks to discourage Bernie supporters from voting, using Bill to discourage women from voting, and using the 'superpredators' remark to discourage African-Americans from voting, is a fairly obvious political tactic (and one I think won't make much headway).
BUT ... for a senior campaign official to say "We have three major voter suppression operations under way" is spectacularly stupid and would be a gigantic issue in a normal year. And it may well be the sort of statement that could influence the court cases about voter suppression and the ban on "observers" as a suppression tactic.
posted by Chanther at 7:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [38 favorites]
The actual approach being discussed in this article - using Wikileaks to discourage Bernie supporters from voting, using Bill to discourage women from voting, and using the 'superpredators' remark to discourage African-Americans from voting, is a fairly obvious political tactic (and one I think won't make much headway).
BUT ... for a senior campaign official to say "We have three major voter suppression operations under way" is spectacularly stupid and would be a gigantic issue in a normal year. And it may well be the sort of statement that could influence the court cases about voter suppression and the ban on "observers" as a suppression tactic.
posted by Chanther at 7:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [38 favorites]
Can we not do the trophy wife thing again, please? It's really dehumanizing regardless of how culpable or complicit Melania Trump is in her husband's campaign.
posted by lydhre at 7:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Melania accused the People magazine writer who Trump alllegedly harassed of being a liar. No idea why she's constantly given sympathy and benefit of the doubt.
She also fully backed up his birther nonsense.
Despite whatever contract she has she is not helpless to get out if she really wanted too and unless she is totally clueless and dumb she knew about his history and what type of person he was when she married him.
I don't understand why she gets all this sympathy either.
posted by Jalliah at 7:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
She also fully backed up his birther nonsense.
Despite whatever contract she has she is not helpless to get out if she really wanted too and unless she is totally clueless and dumb she knew about his history and what type of person he was when she married him.
I don't understand why she gets all this sympathy either.
posted by Jalliah at 7:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
It may have been on one of NPR's "divided nation" segments, but they spoke to someone who was claiming in earnest that the Constitution was inspired by God Himself, and that of course the Founders were all Christians who intentionally encoded America's status as a Christian nation into the document.
Ironically, many (most?) of the original Founding Fathers were Deist or Unitarian or Episcopalian; Ben Franklin even believed in reincarnation. What the believers in "Constitutional purity" or "Inspired by God!" would dismiss as commie hippy librul beliefs. The ignorance of Troo Patriots!!!111 never ceases to astound me.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Ironically, many (most?) of the original Founding Fathers were Deist or Unitarian or Episcopalian; Ben Franklin even believed in reincarnation. What the believers in "Constitutional purity" or "Inspired by God!" would dismiss as commie hippy librul beliefs. The ignorance of Troo Patriots!!!111 never ceases to astound me.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Let's not forget Melania's response to Julia Ioffe's profile in GQ.
Melania Trump Says Jewish Reporter Who Got Death Threats from Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis Had it Coming
posted by chris24 at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2016 [19 favorites]
Melania Trump Says Jewish Reporter Who Got Death Threats from Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis Had it Coming
posted by chris24 at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2016 [19 favorites]
Melania accused the People magazine writer who Trump alllegedly harassed of being a liar. No idea why she's constantly given sympathy and benefit of the doubt.
It really is baffling how Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway and Melania Trump get so much sympathy from a certain contingent here when they spend 95% of their time abetting either one of the most horrific candidacies in modern US history or the ideals behind it.
posted by indubitable at 7:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [31 favorites]
It really is baffling how Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway and Melania Trump get so much sympathy from a certain contingent here when they spend 95% of their time abetting either one of the most horrific candidacies in modern US history or the ideals behind it.
posted by indubitable at 7:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [31 favorites]
Despite whatever contract she has she is not helpless to get out if she really wanted too and unless she is totally clueless and dumb she knew about his history and what type of person he is when she married him.
After the bus-tape came out, and all those testimonials from women he has groped, I can't help imagining that he treated her the same way - maybe still does. Eew
Anyway, Trump controls all of his family with money - they are all in it for the money, and they dance to his pipe as long as they can see the bag of gold at the end of the road. If he goes bankrupt, they'll be scrambling to get out with some assets and as far away from him as possible.
posted by mumimor at 7:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
After the bus-tape came out, and all those testimonials from women he has groped, I can't help imagining that he treated her the same way - maybe still does. Eew
Anyway, Trump controls all of his family with money - they are all in it for the money, and they dance to his pipe as long as they can see the bag of gold at the end of the road. If he goes bankrupt, they'll be scrambling to get out with some assets and as far away from him as possible.
posted by mumimor at 7:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would like to see him entirely divulge and divest his holdings and never ever talk to his corporate golf buddies while Hillary is president. But I fear the worst.
The claims that she has only stayed with him because of her demonic lust for power just baffle me because he has obviously been her biggest liability for quite some time. He's always been a player on multiple axes. He's a small town boy made really really good and he gets carried away by that and makes shitty choices sometimes. I've never really liked him and I'd be more than happy if he spent his time as FGOTUS just kicking back, being quiet, and not reminding people constantly of all the poor decisions he's made in his illustrious career. Maybe he can bake some cookies.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
The claims that she has only stayed with him because of her demonic lust for power just baffle me because he has obviously been her biggest liability for quite some time. He's always been a player on multiple axes. He's a small town boy made really really good and he gets carried away by that and makes shitty choices sometimes. I've never really liked him and I'd be more than happy if he spent his time as FGOTUS just kicking back, being quiet, and not reminding people constantly of all the poor decisions he's made in his illustrious career. Maybe he can bake some cookies.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
I have zero sympathy for her and, in fact, I have deep contempt for her actions. I just do not want to see misogyny (and trophy wife with no agency is definitely misogynistic) hurled at any woman, regardless of her behavior.
posted by lydhre at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
but they spoke to someone who was claiming in earnest that the Constitution was inspired by God Himself, and that of course the Founders were all Christians who intentionally encoded America's status as a Christian nation into the document.
This is so weird because for a group obsessed with this era of history they seem to know zero about it. There are few documents whose background is as clearly that of compromise between men pursuing their own goals as the Constitution. It's bizarre to think that God ordained the three fifths compromise, for instance.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
This is so weird because for a group obsessed with this era of history they seem to know zero about it. There are few documents whose background is as clearly that of compromise between men pursuing their own goals as the Constitution. It's bizarre to think that God ordained the three fifths compromise, for instance.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Despite whatever contract she has she is not helpless to get out if she really wanted too and unless she is totally clueless and dumb she knew about his history and what type of person he was when she married him.
I don't understand why she gets all this sympathy either.
Yes - this. Melania is a grown-ass woman, and, as far as I know, not brainwashed or anything. I don't have any sympathy for her. The one member of the family I have sympathy and pity for is Barron, because he's 10, and the campaign circus and all the revelations about his father being a truly awful person have to be hard on a little kid.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
I don't understand why she gets all this sympathy either.
Yes - this. Melania is a grown-ass woman, and, as far as I know, not brainwashed or anything. I don't have any sympathy for her. The one member of the family I have sympathy and pity for is Barron, because he's 10, and the campaign circus and all the revelations about his father being a truly awful person have to be hard on a little kid.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
It really is baffling how Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway and Melania Trump get so much sympathy from a certain contingent here
a) One of those things is not like the other.
b) Sympathy and empathy in one regard where someone is being treated unfairly need not be contingent on a person being perfect or even good.
c) Victim blaming, just universe, "they deserve it" crap is fucked up.
posted by Talez at 7:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [16 favorites]
a) One of those things is not like the other.
b) Sympathy and empathy in one regard where someone is being treated unfairly need not be contingent on a person being perfect or even good.
c) Victim blaming, just universe, "they deserve it" crap is fucked up.
posted by Talez at 7:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [16 favorites]
It really is baffling how Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway and Melania Trump get so much sympathy from a certain contingent here
Every time like one person says something superficially sympathetic and then like seventeen women show up to be like, no, here is why this person is terrible
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Every time like one person says something superficially sympathetic and then like seventeen women show up to be like, no, here is why this person is terrible
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't know the perfect recipe for mending fences and bridging gaps but I do know that laughing at someone or condoning their misfortunes as deserved accomplishes zero.
posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
the source document is a memo written by a consultant
Doug Band? Yeah, the story was covered a month ago, pretty thoroughly.
And the broader story is that Bill and Hillary Clinton have perhaps overvalued personal loyalty over decades of press snipe-hunting, which has led to them hiring some dubious fuckers. But per Ben Smith, Chelsea's immersion in that environment has given her a pretty good spidey-sense towards the people in her parents' inner circle who are in it for themselves in damaging ways.
posted by holgate at 7:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Doug Band? Yeah, the story was covered a month ago, pretty thoroughly.
And the broader story is that Bill and Hillary Clinton have perhaps overvalued personal loyalty over decades of press snipe-hunting, which has led to them hiring some dubious fuckers. But per Ben Smith, Chelsea's immersion in that environment has given her a pretty good spidey-sense towards the people in her parents' inner circle who are in it for themselves in damaging ways.
posted by holgate at 7:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I dunno, it feels pretty good if the person suffering misfortune deserves it. I'm fine with laughing at Donald Trump's misfortunes, for example.
posted by Justinian at 7:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 7:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
It really is baffling how Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway and Melania Trump get so much sympathy from a certain contingent here
Ivanka Trump too.
posted by zutalors! at 7:17 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
the Founders were all Christians who intentionally encoded America's status as a Christian nation into the document
But then many of the Founders in the Senate unanimously ratified the Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, which says that, "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:18 AM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
Mostly when people talk about the U.S. Constitution as divinely inspired the questions I want to ask are about why God withheld inspiration from the Articles of Confederation.
Also, if we take it as a given that the Constitution was divinely inspired and the Articles of Confederation weren't, we can use that to intuit the mind and preferences of God. Apparently God is really into strong central governments, for example.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [38 favorites]
Also, if we take it as a given that the Constitution was divinely inspired and the Articles of Confederation weren't, we can use that to intuit the mind and preferences of God. Apparently God is really into strong central governments, for example.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [38 favorites]
If you think about it, God is basically the ultimate strong central government.
posted by winna at 7:22 AM on October 27, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:22 AM on October 27, 2016 [27 favorites]
Every time like one person says something superficially sympathetic and then like seventeen women show up to be like, no, here is why this person is terrible
It's not just about them being terrible. At least in my case. It's about the expressions of sympathy that sound like it's taking away their agency. In that 'yeah look what they're dealing with I feel so bad' as if they don't or didn't have a choice in getting themselves into the situation they are in, in the first place.
This barely ever happens when talking about men or at least not in the same manner.
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
It's not just about them being terrible. At least in my case. It's about the expressions of sympathy that sound like it's taking away their agency. In that 'yeah look what they're dealing with I feel so bad' as if they don't or didn't have a choice in getting themselves into the situation they are in, in the first place.
This barely ever happens when talking about men or at least not in the same manner.
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
RE: Trump and mental Illness
I think people are confusing functional with privilege. There Is a huge difference. In social work we generally call these things support factors. He is a white male with supportive family who has access to many individuals to help couse correct mistakes. In addition his social circle is full of people who support/ignore his behavior.
But that alone only cushions his mistakes. It does not fix his internal perceptions and external behavior. Many many people with less support factors would be in jail, prison or homeless. He is someone who was litterally able to state he walked in on minors naked on purpose as a business owner on tape and wasn't charged with a sex crime.
Arguably his persistance, lack of consistency and temper are actively harming him. He has a world recognized brand and is actively burning it into the ground with this campaign. He has I think a dozen women coming foward about crimes. Someone without mental illness wouldn't be responding to these allegations in the way he does. He has scared a base of support he could have kept with moving just a little mainstream with a slight change in attitude: staying a little calmer and a little more logical. It wouldn't take much and this election discussion would be very different.
He actively has spent tons of resources in advisors who he ignores. The only reason this is okay is because how campaigns work.
The real question is if trump will run out of money or die first. This will ultimately be the things that populace will judge Trump's mental health by.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:28 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
I think people are confusing functional with privilege. There Is a huge difference. In social work we generally call these things support factors. He is a white male with supportive family who has access to many individuals to help couse correct mistakes. In addition his social circle is full of people who support/ignore his behavior.
But that alone only cushions his mistakes. It does not fix his internal perceptions and external behavior. Many many people with less support factors would be in jail, prison or homeless. He is someone who was litterally able to state he walked in on minors naked on purpose as a business owner on tape and wasn't charged with a sex crime.
Arguably his persistance, lack of consistency and temper are actively harming him. He has a world recognized brand and is actively burning it into the ground with this campaign. He has I think a dozen women coming foward about crimes. Someone without mental illness wouldn't be responding to these allegations in the way he does. He has scared a base of support he could have kept with moving just a little mainstream with a slight change in attitude: staying a little calmer and a little more logical. It wouldn't take much and this election discussion would be very different.
He actively has spent tons of resources in advisors who he ignores. The only reason this is okay is because how campaigns work.
The real question is if trump will run out of money or die first. This will ultimately be the things that populace will judge Trump's mental health by.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:28 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Is assuming agency on the part of women and calling them out for their bad actions misogyny? Because that's how I feel about Ivanka and Melania. I don't think I'm holding them unfairly responsible because they're women, it feels like I'm doing it despite their being women, because they seem to get a pass from many for their deeds for reasons that sound patronizing/patriarchal to me. (Not necessarily referring to anyone here, just in general.)
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Well, we now know why Giles-Parscale is getting the big bucks, and that's to be a dank meme shitshop while sucking in data for re-sale and the pivot to Trump Media. It's spending campaign donations as if it were a startup burning through seed capital.
posted by holgate at 7:34 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by holgate at 7:34 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I would not call Donald Trump functional. He's blown up two families (so far) with extra-marital affairs, lost millions of dollars, and has no real friends. He is protected from being homeless, broke and alone only by his massive privilege.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [31 favorites]
"The odds are long, they say, in a state that hasn’t voted Democratic for president in 40 years. But in recent polling data and early voting results, they are also seeing signs of the perfect storm of demographic and political forces it would take to turn Texas blue.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump's access to power and wealth provides gigantic buffers against mistakes of all kinds that would bring down poorer people.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:44 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:44 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is always what I imagine the inside of the Giles-Pasrcale offices look like.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:44 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:44 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Aaaand... 8chan doxxed a bunch of journalists overnight. And has apparently been doing so for the past week. And why yes, it's the goobergobbers doing it.
posted by holgate at 7:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by holgate at 7:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Rosie M. Banks: Ironically, many (most?) of the original Founding Fathers were Deist or Unitarian or Episcopalian; Ben Franklin even believed in reincarnation. What the believers in "Constitutional purity" or "Inspired by God!" would dismiss as commie hippy librul beliefs. The ignorance of Troo Patriots!!!111 never ceases to astound me.
Let's not forget, many publicly, vocally "devout Christians" seem to lack an understanding of what's in the Bible, and are happy to pick their favorite interpretations of certain passages to support their views.
In short: that's part of their MO - interpret history as you wish, ignore the parts that you don't like. (Mumble mumble something something "reality has a liberal bias".)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
Let's not forget, many publicly, vocally "devout Christians" seem to lack an understanding of what's in the Bible, and are happy to pick their favorite interpretations of certain passages to support their views.
In short: that's part of their MO - interpret history as you wish, ignore the parts that you don't like. (Mumble mumble something something "reality has a liberal bias".)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
Love Has No Labels ' "We Are America" ad with John Cena yt is excellent, too.
"To love America is to love all Americans" has become my mantra ever since I first saw this show up here on the blue.
posted by VTX at 7:49 AM on October 27, 2016 [16 favorites]
"To love America is to love all Americans" has become my mantra ever since I first saw this show up here on the blue.
posted by VTX at 7:49 AM on October 27, 2016 [16 favorites]
Trump Surprises Wife Melania With News That She’ll Make ‘Two or Three Speeches’ in Final Weeks
If this isn't Trump pulling something out of his ass extemporaneously - which he tends to do when he wants to "energize" a slow interview or campaign event - he's either lazily trying to shift the burden of campaigning to a superficially sympathetic surrogate or setting her up to fail him. Possibly both, given what a dumpster fire his campaign is as it slouches into its final two weeks.
Well, we now know why Giles-Parscale is getting the big bucks, and that's to be a dank meme shitshop while sucking in data for re-sale and the pivot to Trump Media. It's spending campaign donations as if it were a startup burning through seed capital.
The key point in that Bloomberg article is that Trump's highly valuable list of millions of unique contact names from its dedicated supporters and small-figure donors is owned by Trump, not the RNC. (This isn't unusual at all, and in fact, gathering unique names for a mailing list is a very attractive reason to run even a doomed presidential campaign - hence the GOP clowncar's worth of primary candidates.) In the aftermath of a failed GOP election year, that could put Trump in a better position to recover, either as an independent political force or a media venture, while the GOP sees its grassroots support wither.
The big question of how much of that list will winnow itself out depends on how spectacular Trump's loss could be.
Donald Trump Modeled His Life on Cinematic Loser Charles Foster Kane
The amount Donald is swiping from Kane's playbook is embarrassing.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:51 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
If this isn't Trump pulling something out of his ass extemporaneously - which he tends to do when he wants to "energize" a slow interview or campaign event - he's either lazily trying to shift the burden of campaigning to a superficially sympathetic surrogate or setting her up to fail him. Possibly both, given what a dumpster fire his campaign is as it slouches into its final two weeks.
Well, we now know why Giles-Parscale is getting the big bucks, and that's to be a dank meme shitshop while sucking in data for re-sale and the pivot to Trump Media. It's spending campaign donations as if it were a startup burning through seed capital.
The key point in that Bloomberg article is that Trump's highly valuable list of millions of unique contact names from its dedicated supporters and small-figure donors is owned by Trump, not the RNC. (This isn't unusual at all, and in fact, gathering unique names for a mailing list is a very attractive reason to run even a doomed presidential campaign - hence the GOP clowncar's worth of primary candidates.) In the aftermath of a failed GOP election year, that could put Trump in a better position to recover, either as an independent political force or a media venture, while the GOP sees its grassroots support wither.
The big question of how much of that list will winnow itself out depends on how spectacular Trump's loss could be.
Donald Trump Modeled His Life on Cinematic Loser Charles Foster Kane
The amount Donald is swiping from Kane's playbook is embarrassing.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:51 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Every time like one person says something superficially sympathetic and then like seventeen women show up to be like, no, here is why this person is terrible
I dunno, upthread I got told to "chill" for pointing out that the racist news person defending herself against a personal attack and enjoying a ratings bump in the process might not be a morally laudable thing, and that rebuke appeared to garner a fair amount of support. I agree that there are plenty of women and POCs doing what you describe here, but there's also sometimes an "enemy of my enemy" read on those kinds of Kelly/Gingrich moments that I don't really get.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
I dunno, upthread I got told to "chill" for pointing out that the racist news person defending herself against a personal attack and enjoying a ratings bump in the process might not be a morally laudable thing, and that rebuke appeared to garner a fair amount of support. I agree that there are plenty of women and POCs doing what you describe here, but there's also sometimes an "enemy of my enemy" read on those kinds of Kelly/Gingrich moments that I don't really get.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
sallybrown: But first, some tweets from Sean Hannity, [sic]:
Is this some kind of puzzle?
Nope, just really poorly written and in partial short-hand ("Josh Ernest who refused to answer the question" if Obama really planned to move to Canada if Trump won). Hannity Offers to Send Obama and Family on One-Way Trip to Kenya (Mediate, October 25th, 2016) - a fake news article (Onion-like satire, in theory) claimed that Obama Declares His Family Will Move To Canada If Trump Is Elected (dated August 5, 2016). Mediate summed it up:
posted by filthy light thief at 7:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Liberal media. It's was Josh Ernest who refuse to amswee teh ? Will Obama stay in the US if DT wins. I mentioned I'd pay a charter to .....
Liberal media 2 Any country they choose. 1- Canada where the satire piece was written Kenya where he visited http://gotnews.com/watch-never-seen-video-barackobama-kenya-released-wesearchr-prisonplanet/ … .....
Is this some kind of puzzle?
Nope, just really poorly written and in partial short-hand ("Josh Ernest who refused to answer the question" if Obama really planned to move to Canada if Trump won). Hannity Offers to Send Obama and Family on One-Way Trip to Kenya (Mediate, October 25th, 2016) - a fake news article (Onion-like satire, in theory) claimed that Obama Declares His Family Will Move To Canada If Trump Is Elected (dated August 5, 2016). Mediate summed it up:
Though the article was plainly satirical, Hannity seemed to suggest that there was merit in it because the White House had not formally denied that Obama was planning to leave the country.I won't pull quotes from Hannity, but they're in the Mediate article. In short: he offered to send Obama and his family to Canada, Kenya or Jakarta, "where you went to school back in the day" (true, he did live there in the 1960s). But Hannity included Kenya as a none-too-subtle reference to the birther BS.
Hannity also said that Obama was “unfit” to serve and presided over the “worst presidency in our lifetime by far.”
posted by filthy light thief at 7:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed a bit of a chuckle this morning from this image attached to a Daily Beast story.
(because .ru is the ccTLD for Russia, eh? And it's red. EH???)
posted by tonycpsu at 7:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
(because .ru is the ccTLD for Russia, eh? And it's red. EH???)
posted by tonycpsu at 7:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Discussing Jill Stein feels only a smidgen more relevant than discussing Scott Adams.
posted by vathek
Jill Stein is running for President right now.
But when it's all over they're going to have the same number of electoral votes.
posted by phearlez at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by vathek
Jill Stein is running for President right now.
But when it's all over they're going to have the same number of electoral votes.
posted by phearlez at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
I think that there is some significant social conditioning to support and protect white cis feminine presenting women and that's strongly at play wrt Ivanka/Melania/Megyn etc.
posted by zutalors! at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump:
"A lot of call-ins about vote flipping at the voting booths in Texas. People are not happy. BIG lines. What is going on?"
Yes Texas, run completely by Republicans, is rigging it for Clinton.
posted by chris24 at 8:01 AM on October 27, 2016 [54 favorites]
"A lot of call-ins about vote flipping at the voting booths in Texas. People are not happy. BIG lines. What is going on?"
Yes Texas, run completely by Republicans, is rigging it for Clinton.
posted by chris24 at 8:01 AM on October 27, 2016 [54 favorites]
Speaking of Texas, I voted yesterday! 3rd day of early voting, suburban sub-courthouse, 2pm in afternoon--and it was busy! I could not tell the "lean" from the crowd; lots of folks of color, but also lots of old white people. 1 Trump and 1 Clinton sign outside, rest were local races. (Including my favorite, Dem judge candidate named "Drago" how awesome is that name.)
Only discouraging parts:
-Poll workers did not make it clear enough that you could use photo ID OR a utility bill/similar if you don't have photo ID; you were in a line, they stuck out their hand for your ID and there was no discussion. If you were watching, you might assume that no ID meant you couldn't vote.
--too many judge races with unopposed Republicans.
posted by emjaybee at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Only discouraging parts:
-Poll workers did not make it clear enough that you could use photo ID OR a utility bill/similar if you don't have photo ID; you were in a line, they stuck out their hand for your ID and there was no discussion. If you were watching, you might assume that no ID meant you couldn't vote.
--too many judge races with unopposed Republicans.
posted by emjaybee at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
According to Lou Dobbs of Fox News, Eggo McLeggo is a tool of the "Mormon Mafia".
Trump bought concrete from a mob boss literally named "Fat Tony", so y'know, I think the Mormon Mafia would at least have less stereotypical nicknames.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump bought concrete from a mob boss literally named "Fat Tony", so y'know, I think the Mormon Mafia would at least have less stereotypical nicknames.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Y'all, are we gonna do electoral map/winning margin predictions on MeFi, like we did for the primary/general winners (and VP picks) earlier on in the cycle?
There's a tradition on the MetaFilter of predicting the electoral college and popular vote totals in past elections - [2004] [2008] [2012]. 50 US bucks has sometimes been stumped up (suddenly, in a post-currency crash England, 50 US bucks is a lot of money).
posted by Wordshore at 8:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's a tradition on the MetaFilter of predicting the electoral college and popular vote totals in past elections - [2004] [2008] [2012]. 50 US bucks has sometimes been stumped up (suddenly, in a post-currency crash England, 50 US bucks is a lot of money).
posted by Wordshore at 8:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can anybody confirm that Trump himself is still tweeting? The @RealRealDonaldTrump Twitter bot that filters out @realDonaldTrump's campaign handlers has been quiet since October 20.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:13 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:13 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's bizarre to think that God ordained the three fifths compromise, for instance.
He kinda did, though, according to Christian slaveholders.
They asked who could question the Word of God when it said, "slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" (Ephesians 6:5), or "tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect" (Titus 2:9).The Methodists, Baptists and Presbyterians split over slavery in the years leading up to the Civil War.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on October 27, 2016
Trump bought concrete from a mob boss literally named "Fat Tony", so y'know, I think the Mormon Mafia would at least have less stereotypical nicknames.
ITYM Fat Tony, a member of the Legitimate Businessmen's Social Club.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:15 AM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
ITYM Fat Tony, a member of the Legitimate Businessmen's Social Club.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:15 AM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
In my continuing quest to read the comments so no one else has to, I did find this cute nugget in the comments on the 8chan dox: Doggle Trump.
posted by Coventry at 8:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 8:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
I expect Melania's speeches to go as well as her press conference about her immigration status.
In other words, I'll believe they'll happen when I actually see them, and until then will assume that Donald Trump is lying, since his lips are moving and all.
posted by kyrademon at 8:20 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
In other words, I'll believe they'll happen when I actually see them, and until then will assume that Donald Trump is lying, since his lips are moving and all.
posted by kyrademon at 8:20 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
VTX: "To love America is to love all Americans" has become my mantra ever since I first saw this show up here on the blue.
The cynic in me could say "you mean real Americans and not illegal immigrants, right?"
My off-the-cuff suggested edit is "To love America is to love everyone in America." Not as catchy, and then I start thinking "what about the rest of the world?" My brain won't quit, so I'll stop typing now.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:21 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
The cynic in me could say "you mean real Americans and not illegal immigrants, right?"
My off-the-cuff suggested edit is "To love America is to love everyone in America." Not as catchy, and then I start thinking "what about the rest of the world?" My brain won't quit, so I'll stop typing now.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:21 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Liberal media. It's was Josh Ernest who refuse to amswee teh ? Will Obama stay in the US if DT wins. I mentioned I'd pay a charter to .....
What does it mean to refuse to amswee teh?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
What does it mean to refuse to amswee teh?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
filthy light thief, probably many jingoists need to take the gradual path to universal love.
posted by Coventry at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Coventry at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you want to talk about having a nation supposedly founded on Christian principles, it ought to be, "To love America is to love everyone," period.
posted by Sequence at 8:24 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 8:24 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
He kinda did, though, according to Christian slaveholders.
Obviously, the institution of slavery was considered divinely ordained by some in the South, the point wasn't that no one would think God would be okay with slavery. My point was that the three-fifths compromise is plainly the product of men fighting over their own interests and goals, with a result that neither side got what they initially wanted. If God approved of slavery, you'd assume he'd ordained a constitution where the South got the benefit of the extra representation for people they treated as property the rest of the time and if God didn't you expect no representation on the basis of slaves. The "let's see if we can keep just enough people sort of happy to hold this together" character of the Constitution is what I meant.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:28 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Obviously, the institution of slavery was considered divinely ordained by some in the South, the point wasn't that no one would think God would be okay with slavery. My point was that the three-fifths compromise is plainly the product of men fighting over their own interests and goals, with a result that neither side got what they initially wanted. If God approved of slavery, you'd assume he'd ordained a constitution where the South got the benefit of the extra representation for people they treated as property the rest of the time and if God didn't you expect no representation on the basis of slaves. The "let's see if we can keep just enough people sort of happy to hold this together" character of the Constitution is what I meant.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:28 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've actually been thinking about it a lot and I think that, if my goal is to love every American that means that I should consider every American like a brother or sister. To me, that implies that everyone else on this planet is at least a cousin.
Mostly, I'm just pretty loose with what I think of as "an American" so I include everyone that lives here. Frankly, it's easier in practice to just try and love everyone.
posted by VTX at 8:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mostly, I'm just pretty loose with what I think of as "an American" so I include everyone that lives here. Frankly, it's easier in practice to just try and love everyone.
posted by VTX at 8:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
On a lighter note, Tim Kaine just tweeted out this adorable clip from The View of him and Anne talking about photos of Tim in his younger days.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 8:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 8:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Real Story Behind Donald Trump's Aborted 1991 Metal Video Appearance
"Jay Pritzker, knowing that Donald Trump wanted to sell his Trump Shuttle" -- the LaGuardia-based airline owned by Trump from 1989 to 1992 -- "told Trump, 'if you're in the video for my son's all-girl band, then I might buy your Trump Shuttle.' This is what I understand to be the truth. I wasn't supposed to tell anybody this, but what the fuck. Trump then said, 'Are you going to buy it?' Pritzker went, 'no, fuck you,' but no one told us."
posted by srboisvert at 8:30 AM on October 27, 2016
"Jay Pritzker, knowing that Donald Trump wanted to sell his Trump Shuttle" -- the LaGuardia-based airline owned by Trump from 1989 to 1992 -- "told Trump, 'if you're in the video for my son's all-girl band, then I might buy your Trump Shuttle.' This is what I understand to be the truth. I wasn't supposed to tell anybody this, but what the fuck. Trump then said, 'Are you going to buy it?' Pritzker went, 'no, fuck you,' but no one told us."
posted by srboisvert at 8:30 AM on October 27, 2016
If Tim Kaine doesn't want to adopt a 43 year old from another country that he's never met before then ALL my plans for the future are in ruins.
posted by vbfg at 8:34 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by vbfg at 8:34 AM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yuengling is in the tank for Trump.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is so weird because for a group obsessed with this era of history they seem to know zero about it.
Well, yeah. In this country history is taught with a serious bias, and a profound dearth of critical thinking.
This group is not as such obsessed with "this era of history", they are obsessed with the romanticized notion of that era of history, and they shut up any uneasy details in the attic like mutant children. What they are afraid of is having the myth challenged or disproven.
But the thing is - looking at the negative aspects doesn't disprove the myth. It only expounds it, and can sometimes reinforce it. I know that we reference Hamilton so much we should be giving Lin-Manuel Miranda an honorary membership, but - he was very open to depicting Hamilton as being profoundly flawed in some ways. Hamilton was stubborn, overly ambitious, headstrong, and sometimes the dude just did not know when to shut up. But the point is that "hey, look, this dude was a fuck-up and he still pulled off all this crazy shit, isn't that amazing?"
And yeah, it is. But some people are so challenged by the notion that he was a fuck-up that they willfully want to ignore that part. They will only accept perfect heroes, but the fruits of their heroes' labor are too obvious to ignore, so they are forced to instead ignore their heroes' flaws.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Well, yeah. In this country history is taught with a serious bias, and a profound dearth of critical thinking.
This group is not as such obsessed with "this era of history", they are obsessed with the romanticized notion of that era of history, and they shut up any uneasy details in the attic like mutant children. What they are afraid of is having the myth challenged or disproven.
But the thing is - looking at the negative aspects doesn't disprove the myth. It only expounds it, and can sometimes reinforce it. I know that we reference Hamilton so much we should be giving Lin-Manuel Miranda an honorary membership, but - he was very open to depicting Hamilton as being profoundly flawed in some ways. Hamilton was stubborn, overly ambitious, headstrong, and sometimes the dude just did not know when to shut up. But the point is that "hey, look, this dude was a fuck-up and he still pulled off all this crazy shit, isn't that amazing?"
And yeah, it is. But some people are so challenged by the notion that he was a fuck-up that they willfully want to ignore that part. They will only accept perfect heroes, but the fruits of their heroes' labor are too obvious to ignore, so they are forced to instead ignore their heroes' flaws.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Once again Pat Bagley of the Salt Lake Tribune, is telling it, brother!
posted by Oyéah at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yuengling is in the tank for Trump.
Dick Yuengling is also a union-busting Right-to-Work shitbag, so.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [32 favorites]
Dick Yuengling is also a union-busting Right-to-Work shitbag, so.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [32 favorites]
Abrahamic religions have a great deal of the master-slave relationship built into how man is supposed to relate to God, which is one reason they are lousy foundations for government and very attractive to demagogues. But I doubt very much that Trump has any concept of religion as anything other than something which could deliver him blocs of voters if he makes the right noises come out of his mouth, either by adopting of decrying them.
posted by Devonian at 8:39 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:39 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have never been able to explain why Yuengling - which I like as a beer - always gives me serious heartburn that no other beer does. I always just shrugged it off to a weird metabolic thing and maybe related to the water they brew with. But perhaps it's just my body rebelling against above-average shitty ownership.
posted by phearlez at 8:39 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 8:39 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
They will only accept perfect heroes, but the fruits of their heroes' labor are too obvious to ignore, so they are forced to instead ignore their heroes' flaws.
They also tend to revere the "Founding Fathers" as if they were some kind of monolithic group, when they had as many different ideas and opinions -- especially about how government should be organized -- as anyone (not to mention religion!). Hamilton makes clear, for example, how bitterly Hamilton and Jefferson disagreed (and in their ways represented the North-South divide), as well as how they compromised to get at least something of what they both wanted.
posted by Gelatin at 8:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
They also tend to revere the "Founding Fathers" as if they were some kind of monolithic group, when they had as many different ideas and opinions -- especially about how government should be organized -- as anyone (not to mention religion!). Hamilton makes clear, for example, how bitterly Hamilton and Jefferson disagreed (and in their ways represented the North-South divide), as well as how they compromised to get at least something of what they both wanted.
posted by Gelatin at 8:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dick Yuengling is also a union-busting Right-to-Work shitbag, so.
Hm, I thought the daughters were in charge of the Yuengling empire now. Too bad either way—Yuengling's one of my favorite go-to cheap beers.
posted by Rykey at 8:41 AM on October 27, 2016
Hm, I thought the daughters were in charge of the Yuengling empire now. Too bad either way—Yuengling's one of my favorite go-to cheap beers.
posted by Rykey at 8:41 AM on October 27, 2016
Trump Speaks Hindi to Court Indian-American Voters in New TV Ad
Donald Trump is attempting to court Indian-American voters with a new TV ad released Wednesday, in which he takes a stab at speaking in Hindi.Indian Americans vote solidly Democratic, but some hope Trump can change that
...
“Ab ki baar Trump sarkar,” Trump says in the ad, which translates it to “This time Trump government.”
"...the Indian American community overwhelmingly leans Democratic, with 70 percent planning to vote for Hillary Clinton compared with 7 percent for Trump..."posted by kirkaracha at 8:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have never been able to explain why Yuengling - which I like as a beer - always gives me serious heartburn that no other beer does. I always just shrugged it off to a weird metabolic thing and maybe related to the water they brew with
I get a giant headache after maybe two. Seems to be lots of beers that use corn as an adjunct do that to me. No idea why. I eat a shit ton of corn and never suffer any ill effects otherwise.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:44 AM on October 27, 2016
I get a giant headache after maybe two. Seems to be lots of beers that use corn as an adjunct do that to me. No idea why. I eat a shit ton of corn and never suffer any ill effects otherwise.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:44 AM on October 27, 2016
If you want to talk about having a nation supposedly founded on Christian principles, it ought to be, "To love America is to love everyone," period.
[derail] Love, American Style [/derail]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
[derail] Love, American Style [/derail]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
More dirty tricks: Trump campaign using targeted Facebook posts to discourage black Americans from voting.
posted by SteveInMaine at 8:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by SteveInMaine at 8:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
In particular, we do not endorse Hillary Clinton’s exemplary leadership during her 30 years in the public eye.
Those rascally Yalies.
posted by aught at 8:48 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Those rascally Yalies.
posted by aught at 8:48 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
In The Hollow: The changing face of Appalachia- and its role in the presidential race
Fantastic Chris Offutt Harper's essay on the disenfranchisement of the rural poor, how that fed into the rise of Trump, and the importance of education above all things.
"Much of Trump’s popularity is clearly based on the backlash against Barack Obama. His other great appeal is sexist. His opponent is a woman. Which group in this country has the lowest regard for women? It’s not poor Southern whites and blacks, many of whom rely on women to hold families together. It’s not people in the rust belt, where women have long toiled in factories alongside men, or in Montana, which in 1916 elected the first woman to Congress. The demographic I’m talking about is white conservative men who didn’t go to college and never miss church on Sundays. They are not limited to a particular region or class. They are everywhere. For a long time, I thought Trump was destroying the G.O.P. Now I think he’s exposing it... I believe we are hearing the death cry of the G.O.P. in its current incarnation."
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 8:51 AM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
Fantastic Chris Offutt Harper's essay on the disenfranchisement of the rural poor, how that fed into the rise of Trump, and the importance of education above all things.
"Much of Trump’s popularity is clearly based on the backlash against Barack Obama. His other great appeal is sexist. His opponent is a woman. Which group in this country has the lowest regard for women? It’s not poor Southern whites and blacks, many of whom rely on women to hold families together. It’s not people in the rust belt, where women have long toiled in factories alongside men, or in Montana, which in 1916 elected the first woman to Congress. The demographic I’m talking about is white conservative men who didn’t go to college and never miss church on Sundays. They are not limited to a particular region or class. They are everywhere. For a long time, I thought Trump was destroying the G.O.P. Now I think he’s exposing it... I believe we are hearing the death cry of the G.O.P. in its current incarnation."
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 8:51 AM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
In other words, I'll believe they'll happen when I actually see them, and until then will assume that Donald Trump is lying, since his lips are moving and all.
For a while now, I've been viewing everything that comes out of the campaign like this. Today it's Bannon & co. talking about how they're going to drive down voter turnout with ads and I'm thinking "Are you going to manage this as well as you managed the debates? As well as you've managed GOTV in Florida? As well as you've managed the rest of your media strategy?" They're at the making threats stage of the campaign and it's hard to tell what's real what's just shit talk and Hail Mary passes. There's a view common to the whole movement that speech and performance is action. The belief by the higher-ups that the campaign can be won by marketing, simply, is just a more sophisticated version of the rank-and-file's belief that it can be won by dank memes and "meme magic."
posted by octobersurprise at 8:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
For a while now, I've been viewing everything that comes out of the campaign like this. Today it's Bannon & co. talking about how they're going to drive down voter turnout with ads and I'm thinking "Are you going to manage this as well as you managed the debates? As well as you've managed GOTV in Florida? As well as you've managed the rest of your media strategy?" They're at the making threats stage of the campaign and it's hard to tell what's real what's just shit talk and Hail Mary passes. There's a view common to the whole movement that speech and performance is action. The belief by the higher-ups that the campaign can be won by marketing, simply, is just a more sophisticated version of the rank-and-file's belief that it can be won by dank memes and "meme magic."
posted by octobersurprise at 8:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
If the Constitution is really perfect and God-given, then why does it have so many amendments?
posted by monospace at 8:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by monospace at 8:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
If the Constitution is really perfect and God-given, then why does it have so many amendments?
Protestants.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:00 AM on October 27, 2016 [35 favorites]
Protestants.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:00 AM on October 27, 2016 [35 favorites]
Mormom Mafia
"Elder Wilson, you're funny!"
"What do you mean, I'm funny? Funny how?"
"Well, I think your jokes are well-told and amusing, and you're quick to see the humor in things."
"Why thank you, Elder Young, that's very nice of you to say."
posted by PlusDistance at 9:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [67 favorites]
"Elder Wilson, you're funny!"
"What do you mean, I'm funny? Funny how?"
"Well, I think your jokes are well-told and amusing, and you're quick to see the humor in things."
"Why thank you, Elder Young, that's very nice of you to say."
posted by PlusDistance at 9:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [67 favorites]
Union protestors picketed Trump's DC hotel to protest union busting activities at his Las Vegas property. Blue collar billionaire, y'all.
posted by xyzzy at 9:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by xyzzy at 9:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
perhaps it's just my body rebelling against above-average shitty ownership.
Yuengling is a microcosm of lots of things: it's not a multinational operation beholden to investors; it's a proud independent privately-owned American family business... and the family has shitty politics that it wants to impose on others. Like TrumpOrg. It's similar to how "mom & pop store" vs. "corporate chain" can obscure how family businesses are more likely to pay shitty wages and offer shitty benefits and discriminate against staff and customers.
posted by holgate at 9:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Yuengling is a microcosm of lots of things: it's not a multinational operation beholden to investors; it's a proud independent privately-owned American family business... and the family has shitty politics that it wants to impose on others. Like TrumpOrg. It's similar to how "mom & pop store" vs. "corporate chain" can obscure how family businesses are more likely to pay shitty wages and offer shitty benefits and discriminate against staff and customers.
posted by holgate at 9:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
If the Constitution is really perfect
Doesn't anyone read the preamble anymore?
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of ...
posted by bearwife at 9:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Doesn't anyone read the preamble anymore?
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of ...
posted by bearwife at 9:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Doggle Trump
At this dramatic juncture, let me remind people of my conspiracy theory that "Donald J. Trump" is actually the unimaginative pseudonym adopted by an elderly, disguised shih tzu with a good reason to hate the Clintons and distrust Sidney Blumenthal.
posted by jackbishop at 9:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
At this dramatic juncture, let me remind people of my conspiracy theory that "Donald J. Trump" is actually the unimaginative pseudonym adopted by an elderly, disguised shih tzu with a good reason to hate the Clintons and distrust Sidney Blumenthal.
posted by jackbishop at 9:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
The only thing that's perfect about the Constitution is that you can change it. Which we haven't done in too long.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
For those saddened by learning of Yuengling's unfortunate politics, might I suggest picking up some Straub?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:16 AM on October 27, 2016
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:16 AM on October 27, 2016
The belief by the higher-ups that the campaign can be won by marketing, simply, is just a more sophisticated version of the rank-and-file's belief that it can be won by dank memes and "meme magic."
Though as Josh Green says, no matter whether the "meme magic" stuff works in the election, TrumpOrg will end up with an asset it wholly owns (the supporter database) that was created with RNC and donor money, that can be leased and re-leased to other grifters. Fractal levels of grift. It doesn't even matter if the database is shit, because you only get to see it after you've signed the contract.
posted by holgate at 9:18 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Though as Josh Green says, no matter whether the "meme magic" stuff works in the election, TrumpOrg will end up with an asset it wholly owns (the supporter database) that was created with RNC and donor money, that can be leased and re-leased to other grifters. Fractal levels of grift. It doesn't even matter if the database is shit, because you only get to see it after you've signed the contract.
posted by holgate at 9:18 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well, this will REALLY get y'all going. I also feel empathy for Donald Trump. At least little Donny Trump, who was born with everything. Everything except love, acceptance, genuine unconditional regard, and role models for empathy of his own. I also empathize with the angry (white, men) citizens being used, as they always have been, by the people with real power. I can understand their anger while not condoning it.
I also feel that Donald Trump, the man, is traitorous and has done lasting harm to this country, internally as well as the world stage. I feel that toxic masculinity and racism are a sickness of America. I can feel empathy and understanding while at the same time being appalled at what is happening and believe that this cannot stand. I would love to see Trump jailed and these no-nothing and proud of it assholes be relegated to the ash-heap. But it didn't have to fucking be this way. Such potential lost. So much pain caused to, and now by, these damaged people.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
I also feel that Donald Trump, the man, is traitorous and has done lasting harm to this country, internally as well as the world stage. I feel that toxic masculinity and racism are a sickness of America. I can feel empathy and understanding while at the same time being appalled at what is happening and believe that this cannot stand. I would love to see Trump jailed and these no-nothing and proud of it assholes be relegated to the ash-heap. But it didn't have to fucking be this way. Such potential lost. So much pain caused to, and now by, these damaged people.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Josh Marshall: Trump and the Art of the High Pressure Sale:
As I've been writing my Trump mini-book, one of the themes I've been writing about is the increasing apocalypticism of politics on the American right. I think this is tied to a deep degree to the narrowing of the GOP electoral base and the relative demographic decline of white Christian America. If you look at politics through the prism of the political dominance and cultural centrality of white Christians, this may really be the 'last election.' Perhaps the last was 2012. Maybe it will be 2024. But it is important to recognize that if you are looking at politics through that prism, this isn't a fantasy. There is a demographic and political reality behind it.posted by palindromic at 9:21 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
But there's another dimension to Trump's rhetoric. Running TPM for just about sixteen years now, I've been involved in various aspects of sales for years, on both sides of the table. Much of Trump's rhetoric is a classic example of the high pressure sales pitch when the seller is trying to close the sale. This is your last chance! This opportunity will not last. You need to act now!
Can we put "which Trump child deserves more/less sympathy" on the banned topics list for the next thread? Please?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [19 favorites]
If you think about it, God is basically the ultimate strong central government.
AKA the Divine Right of Kings.
posted by aught at 9:32 AM on October 27, 2016
AKA the Divine Right of Kings.
posted by aught at 9:32 AM on October 27, 2016
I demand a paperback series...
50 Shades of Orange?
For a trashy paperback series about the Trumps to be any good it would need the right author.
Unfortunately, V. C. Andrews is dead.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
50 Shades of Orange?
For a trashy paperback series about the Trumps to be any good it would need the right author.
Unfortunately, V. C. Andrews is dead.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:37 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
For a trashy paperback series about the Trumps to be any good it would need the right author.
Unfortunately, V. C. Andrews is dead.
Not that being dead ever slowed her down..
posted by ocschwar at 9:49 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
Unfortunately, V. C. Andrews is dead.
Not that being dead ever slowed her down..
posted by ocschwar at 9:49 AM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
in Order to form a more perfect Union
And the Union was established by the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. The Union that was the Northern side during the Civil War. And the "perpetual" part means states can't secede. "What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?"
posted by kirkaracha at 9:51 AM on October 27, 2016
Can we make "Which Trump child deserves more/less sympathy" a prime time reality TV show instead?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:52 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:52 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
No no no no, a paperback series about the Secret Hillary Club. Four best friends who meet on Tuesday afternoons to chat over sodas and Doritos, writing notes in their Trapper Keepers about dismantling the patriarchy.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [42 favorites]
ObamaCare is a disaster and Snowden is a spy who should be executed-but if it and he could reveal Obama's records,I might become a major fanSo here's my theory: Kushner wants a media empire, Bannon wants a media empire/a white nationalist revolt/to burn everything down so they concluded that leveraging Donnie's MASSIVE HATE-ON for Obama was an effective way to pursue that (and with a little luck they might actually be king-maker.)
— Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Here's my other theory: Donnie's as crazy as a shithouse rat.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:54 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union ...
To this day I can't read that without hearing the Schoolhouse Rock version. So "of the United States" seems wrong to me.
posted by thelonius at 9:55 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
To this day I can't read that without hearing the Schoolhouse Rock version. So "of the United States" seems wrong to me.
posted by thelonius at 9:55 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Can we put "which Trump child deserves more/less sympathy" on the banned topics list for the next thread? Please?
Am currently compiling an election FPP, which could be the next one, so have noted this.
posted by Wordshore at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Am currently compiling an election FPP, which could be the next one, so have noted this.
posted by Wordshore at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union ...
To this day I can't read that without hearing the Schoolhouse Rock version. So "of the United States" seems wrong to me.
Somewhere – maybe even on the blue – I read the story of a classroom of American students all being marked down on a test where they had to write out the Preamble. The (older) teacher figured there had to be some weird cheating ring going on because every student had omitted the same four words. The teacher had no idea that there was a song about it, and was bemused when the entire class spontaneously sang it to her in unison.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:06 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
To this day I can't read that without hearing the Schoolhouse Rock version. So "of the United States" seems wrong to me.
Somewhere – maybe even on the blue – I read the story of a classroom of American students all being marked down on a test where they had to write out the Preamble. The (older) teacher figured there had to be some weird cheating ring going on because every student had omitted the same four words. The teacher had no idea that there was a song about it, and was bemused when the entire class spontaneously sang it to her in unison.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:06 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
Chicago update: MIL spoke to board of elections, who reported that all chicago machines were recalibrated
And stylus were being provided to improve accuracy of the touch screens on every machine.
posted by AlexiaSky at 10:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
And stylus were being provided to improve accuracy of the touch screens on every machine.
posted by AlexiaSky at 10:09 AM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
Shit, the first rule of The Secret Hillary Club is ...
Fill in the blank!
Invite all your friends, but real quiet-like? You know, discretely slipping them a flier with the location of your next meeting.
Or go at it like raves of old and only give them a phone number, which will have a recording with directions to the meeting location, but only 30 minutes before the meeting takes place, so everyone can have plausible deniability if someone calls the number outside of that 30 minute window. "Huh, I forgot why I called that number, maybe I saw an add for a skin-care sample or something? But there wasn't any message, so I guess it was some scam."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fill in the blank!
Invite all your friends, but real quiet-like? You know, discretely slipping them a flier with the location of your next meeting.
Or go at it like raves of old and only give them a phone number, which will have a recording with directions to the meeting location, but only 30 minutes before the meeting takes place, so everyone can have plausible deniability if someone calls the number outside of that 30 minute window. "Huh, I forgot why I called that number, maybe I saw an add for a skin-care sample or something? But there wasn't any message, so I guess it was some scam."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
50 Shades of Orange?
This election is making me feel as though I cannot continue to be Orange Swan because orange has acquired such awful associations. Trump has managed to ruin a freaking colour.
posted by orange swan at 10:20 AM on October 27, 2016 [35 favorites]
This election is making me feel as though I cannot continue to be Orange Swan because orange has acquired such awful associations. Trump has managed to ruin a freaking colour.
posted by orange swan at 10:20 AM on October 27, 2016 [35 favorites]
US election 2016: Indians' verdict on Donald Trump's Hindi: "...if the reaction of Indians in Delhi is anything to go by, Mr Trump still has some work to do."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:21 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:21 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
This election is making me feel as though I cannot continue to be Orange Swan because orange has acquired such awful associations. Trump has managed to ruin a freaking colour.
Cheetos, Cheez-Its, Sweet Potatoes, Tigger, Persimmons, Monarch Butterflies, The Golden Gate Bridge, Butternut Squash Soup, Pumpkins and Cheddar Cheese.
You're still in great company. :)
posted by zarq at 10:25 AM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
Cheetos, Cheez-Its, Sweet Potatoes, Tigger, Persimmons, Monarch Butterflies, The Golden Gate Bridge, Butternut Squash Soup, Pumpkins and Cheddar Cheese.
You're still in great company. :)
posted by zarq at 10:25 AM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
Was just going to link to that BBC news clips. It's interesting that, unusually, the BBC haven't bent over backwards to include people who have positive comments about Trump's video in the interests of balance (either real, perceived or forced). Maybe, or quite possibly, they couldn't find any.
posted by Wordshore at 10:25 AM on October 27, 2016
posted by Wordshore at 10:25 AM on October 27, 2016
Young Scholar, Now Lawyer, Says Clarence Thomas Groped Her in 1999
posted by zombieflanders at 10:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:26 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump Closes Out Campaign by Reigniting Feud With Gold-Star Family
George Stephanopoulos asked if the candidate feels he should apologize to the family of U.S. Army Captain Humayun Khan, who was killed in Iraq in 2004.posted by kirkaracha at 10:29 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Unsurprisingly, Trump did not answer the question, but he said he has great “respect” for Captain Khan and his family. “If I were president at that time, Captain Khan would be alive today, George. Because I wouldn’t have been in Iraq,” he claimed. Trump made a similar remark in the second presidential debate.
...
In a separate interview with ABC News, Captain Khan’s father, Khizr Khan, said the remark is more evidence that Trump should not be president. “This is the most cruel thing you can say to grieving parents, that if I was there this would not have happened,” Khan said. “There’s no sincerity in those remarks … This is one character that a leader must have to be the leader of a great country, to be the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of the United States: empathy. And this person totally lacks that.”
Trump blames 'the microphones' for catching his 2005 talk about sexual assault
“The microphones, I mean to be honest should, you know, should never have been on,” he said.
[real]
posted by kyrademon at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
“The microphones, I mean to be honest should, you know, should never have been on,” he said.
[real]
posted by kyrademon at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Cheetos, Cheez-Its, Sweet Potatoes, Tigger, Persimmons, Monarch Butterflies, The Golden Gate Bridge, Butternut Squash Soup, Pumpkins and Cheddar Cheese.
You're still in great company. :)
[wipes tear from eye]
I picked these out just for you, zarq.
posted by orange swan at 10:33 AM on October 27, 2016 [16 favorites]
You're still in great company. :)
[wipes tear from eye]
I picked these out just for you, zarq.
posted by orange swan at 10:33 AM on October 27, 2016 [16 favorites]
Uh-oh. Looks like Thanksgiving at the Baldwin brothers' house is going to be especially awkward this year. (I'm assuming they all live together in one big house, à la The Monkees.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
Somewhere – maybe even on the blue – I read the story of a classroom of American students all being marked down on a test where they had to write out the Preamble. The (older) teacher figured there had to be some weird cheating ring going on because every student had omitted the same four words. The teacher had no idea that there was a song about it, and was bemused when the entire class spontaneously sang it to her in unison.
I thought I had shared my story at first, but our teacher warned us that we had to learn it as written, which is how I found the difference. And we had to recite, not sing, it before the class. Possibly I was in the following year.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:39 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought I had shared my story at first, but our teacher warned us that we had to learn it as written, which is how I found the difference. And we had to recite, not sing, it before the class. Possibly I was in the following year.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:39 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Early voted with my wife today in North Carolina. They have been doing it downtown for a week, today was the first day the opened up some remote locations. The wait where we went was over two hours. My wife has some health issues so we went downtown. The line there snaked up a flight of stairs and all around a concourse around the lobby. At least an hour wait. We went and talked to people at the Board of Elections office and explained my wife couldn't stand for more than 20 minutes and did we have any options? The nice lady told us to go to the alley around back where they were doing curbside voting and said we could use that. We thought you had to have a handicapped plate or a note from your doctor to do that. So we had to wait about five minutes while sitting in the car and my wife doesn't have to spend the next day and a half in bed to recover. Thank you nice Board of Elections lady!
And screw you GOP Governor and legislature for cutting early voting hours and locations. They also took away straight ticket voting so people are taking longer to fill out the ballot, adding to the long lines. Felt good to help make history today!
posted by marxchivist at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [41 favorites]
And screw you GOP Governor and legislature for cutting early voting hours and locations. They also took away straight ticket voting so people are taking longer to fill out the ballot, adding to the long lines. Felt good to help make history today!
posted by marxchivist at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [41 favorites]
Shit, the first rule of The Secret Hillary Club is ...
Two-factor authentication or GTFO!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [40 favorites]
Two-factor authentication or GTFO!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2016 [40 favorites]
I thought it was end-to-end encryption.
posted by Coventry at 10:42 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Coventry at 10:42 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
At Trump rally, Mike Flynn just said there's "only a short number of days, maybe 21 days" left until the election. Crowd corrected him. (real)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
I picked these out just for you, zarq.
Awww!
into the basket of adorables with you two.
posted by zutalors! at 10:46 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Unsurprisingly, Trump did not answer the question, but he said he has great “respect” for Captain Khan and his family.
Between this and his constant 'no one has more respect for women than me' Donald Trump seems to believe that 'respect' consists entirely of saying that one has respect for someone.
posted by beerperson at 10:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [30 favorites]
Between this and his constant 'no one has more respect for women than me' Donald Trump seems to believe that 'respect' consists entirely of saying that one has respect for someone.
posted by beerperson at 10:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [30 favorites]
I respect that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:50 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:50 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I know we've talked McMuffin to death, but The NYT Upshot's Utah page is absolutely astounding to look at.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:57 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Go Bernie. Sanders calls Trump a political coward over voter suppression efforts.
Also Johnson demonstrated his lack of presidential temperament with a reporter who dared to ask about his low polling.
posted by bearwife at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Also Johnson demonstrated his lack of presidential temperament with a reporter who dared to ask about his low polling.
posted by bearwife at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
I know we've talked McMuffin to death, but The NYT Upshot's Utah page is absolutely astounding to look at.
Considering the trend, If we were to push back the election another week or so, McMullin might even take the state.
posted by zarq at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2016
Considering the trend, If we were to push back the election another week or so, McMullin might even take the state.
posted by zarq at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2016
12
posted by Etrigan at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Contacted by local newspaper Ilta-Sanomat, which rang all women known to have met Mr Trump, she accused the billionaire of grabbing her bottom in New York in July the same year.Journalism.
posted by Etrigan at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
I know we went with Egg McMuffin, but McMullin and Wife could've been a contender.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
ricochet biscuit: here you go on the blue.
posted by fings at 11:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fings at 11:03 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
zarq: If we were to push back the election another week or so
Are you even - do you - do you even have any concern for our health? You monster!
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Are you even - do you - do you even have any concern for our health? You monster!
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Red-state women may be defying their Trump-loving husbands
The thing that worried me the other day while I was early voting was the large number of elderly women being visibly shepherded by their husbands at the polls.
Secret ballots don't matter if your man is standing at the next booth eyeballing your paper ballot as you fill it out.
posted by winna at 11:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
The thing that worried me the other day while I was early voting was the large number of elderly women being visibly shepherded by their husbands at the polls.
Secret ballots don't matter if your man is standing at the next booth eyeballing your paper ballot as you fill it out.
posted by winna at 11:07 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I didn't even know Chuck Schumer was up for reelection this year (I don't live in NY anymore so whatever) until I saw this ad, which clearly didn't take place at an actual Bills tailgate, everyone is way too sober and well-dressed.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also Johnson demonstrated his lack of presidential temperament with a reporter who dared to ask about his low polling.That's like the third video I have seen of him unleashing rage at a journalist.
posted by xyzzy at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ironically, many (most?) of the original Founding Fathers were Deist or Unitarian or Episcopalian; Ben Franklin even believed in reincarnation.
It is true. I did, and I still do.
posted by flarbuse at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2016 [54 favorites]
It is true. I did, and I still do.
posted by flarbuse at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2016 [54 favorites]
Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama live in Winston-Salem, NC
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Are you even - do you - do you even have any concern for our health? You monster!
I hear Clinton dropped a point in the latest poll......
posted by zarq at 11:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
I hear Clinton dropped a point in the latest poll......
posted by zarq at 11:10 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
I live in a red district, so I get to see Chuck making friends with a cow semi-hourly.
posted by xyzzy at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by xyzzy at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hey, they go low, we get high...
posted by y2karl at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
The teacher had no idea that there was a song about it, and was bemused when the entire class spontaneously sang it to her in unison.
Ha. Somewhat like that, in whatever grade we were asked to memorize the preamble, I was baffled as to why so many kids in my class were struggling with it, because, like, duh, I could already sing it before the assignment was even given.
posted by dnash at 11:15 AM on October 27, 2016
Ha. Somewhat like that, in whatever grade we were asked to memorize the preamble, I was baffled as to why so many kids in my class were struggling with it, because, like, duh, I could already sing it before the assignment was even given.
posted by dnash at 11:15 AM on October 27, 2016
I live in a red district, so I get to see Chuck making friends with a cow semi-hourly.
My brain inserted "light" after "red," so that sentence read very differently to me at first.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
My brain inserted "light" after "red," so that sentence read very differently to me at first.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:16 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
It's pretty hilarious seeing Johnson complain that McMullin shouldn't be campaigning because he has no chance of winning.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
The cost of Dems retaking the Senate is the return of the horrible Evan Bayh, who is even worse than you remember him being.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are you even - do you - do you even have any concern for our health? You monster!
No one respects Mefites' health more than me.
posted by beerperson at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
No one respects Mefites' health more than me.
posted by beerperson at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
From the WSJ article: Union and civil rights leaders coercing severely disabled people into voting.
This is enraging. The problem is not disabled people being coerced into voting, it's disabled people being blocked from voting.
One In Six Eligible Voters Has A Disability And it’s harder for them to vote because of it.
Americans with disabilities are less likely to vote
Some voters with disabilities say they are treated like 'second-class citizens' at the polls
Voters With Disabilities Fight For More Accessible Polling Places
posted by Lexica at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [47 favorites]
This is enraging. The problem is not disabled people being coerced into voting, it's disabled people being blocked from voting.
One In Six Eligible Voters Has A Disability And it’s harder for them to vote because of it.
Americans with disabilities are less likely to vote
Some voters with disabilities say they are treated like 'second-class citizens' at the polls
Voters With Disabilities Fight For More Accessible Polling Places
posted by Lexica at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2016 [47 favorites]
Adam "Ruins Everything" Connover: Other Donald Trumps Throughout History
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:20 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:20 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Matt Friedman: Democrats: RNC violating anti-voter intimidation agreement
posted by zombieflanders at 11:28 AM on October 27, 2016 [46 favorites]
In a motion filed in New Jersey federal court on Wednesday, the Democratic National Committee charges that the RNC has violated the consent decree “by supporting and enabling the efforts of the Republican candidate for President, Donald J. Trump, as well as his campaign and advisors, to intimidate and discourage minority voters from voting in the 2016 Presidential Election.”Good on the DNC, and I hope they win. The GOP wholeheartedly deserves getting slapped with the consent decree for the foreseeable future.
The alleged coordination, the DNC says, is a violation of a 1982 consent decree in which the RNC agreed to curb its vote watching tactics — the result of a suit Democrats filed against the RNC for allegedly intimidating minority voters at the polls during New Jersey’s 1981 gubernatorial election.
The DNC argues the court should prohibit the RNC from funding any Trump or state organization “ballot security” or “ballot integrity” measures, and order the committee to seek reimbursement for any funds that have gone toward them. The DNC also wants the RNC to distribute the consent decree to all its field offices and report any RNC worker who engages in the practices, and for the court to impose unspecified “coercive” sanctions against the RNC until it is in “full compliance.’
posted by zombieflanders at 11:28 AM on October 27, 2016 [46 favorites]
Hills and Michelle just took the stage.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hills and Michelle just took the stage.
Can I just take that image of them hugging and plaster it in my brain forever?
I loved the additional side hug Michelle gave where she briefly rested her head on the top of Hillary's. The height difference between them is adorable.
This crowd is so fired up. I love it.
posted by Salieri at 11:33 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can I just take that image of them hugging and plaster it in my brain forever?
I loved the additional side hug Michelle gave where she briefly rested her head on the top of Hillary's. The height difference between them is adorable.
This crowd is so fired up. I love it.
posted by Salieri at 11:33 AM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
> I know we went with Egg McMuffin, but McMullin and Wife could've been a contender.
He'll always be Edward Cullen to me.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
He'll always be Edward Cullen to me.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
How large is the “Secret Hillary Club”? Red-state women may be defying their Trump-loving husbands
How about stop alerting the husbands to the idea? In selfie-allowed and mail-in states, they might be able to do something if they get worried about it.
posted by ctmf at 11:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
How about stop alerting the husbands to the idea? In selfie-allowed and mail-in states, they might be able to do something if they get worried about it.
posted by ctmf at 11:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sean Hannity is now making a mountain of an email sent to Podesta's Georgetown account from some utter random named Joe Littlefield saying the Clintons are "most likely criminal." Some guy emails Podesta to say basically, those Clintons are bad news, and that's newsworthy? The article literally says "We have no idea who Joe Littlefield is, but he offers some sound advice."
Pulitzer-worthy stuff indeed.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pulitzer-worthy stuff indeed.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
So I just realised last night while listening to NPR interview David French about being attacked by Twitter trolls that he, and not McMullin, was Bill Kristol's supposed savior of the republican party. I feel better about McMullin's chances now that in my head he's no longer saddled with the requirement to break free from the gravitational pull of Bill Kristol's wrongness
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Chicago update: MIL spoke to board of elections, who reported that all chicago machines were recalibrated
And stylus were being provided to improve accuracy of the touch screens on every machine.
This kind of thing is super frustrating with touch screens. Progress seems to have made it possible for the latest high end ATM-style screens to avoid these kinds of issues but a lot of physical touch screen designs of more than a few years or so ago have some pretty frustrating and subtle flaws inherent to them. One that catches me fairly regularly, even with my relatively high end and newish phone's touch screen, is that callouses (hilariously/amazingly/sadly/etc I have them on my fingertips from typing...) can cause the touch sensors to fail to recognize touches in a pretty arbitrary way. Until you notice the pattern, it basically looks like it's ignoring your input or sometimes it will register it in the wrong place. As a programmer, I get the substantial benefits of a touch UI, but I'd really like to see a dedicated and more tactile interface for the ballot itself due to fundamental input issues like that. I can live with a little fumbling with a touch UI to do high level stuff that might need to be customized often, but when it gets down to the ballot choices, I want there to be no doubt.
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
And stylus were being provided to improve accuracy of the touch screens on every machine.
This kind of thing is super frustrating with touch screens. Progress seems to have made it possible for the latest high end ATM-style screens to avoid these kinds of issues but a lot of physical touch screen designs of more than a few years or so ago have some pretty frustrating and subtle flaws inherent to them. One that catches me fairly regularly, even with my relatively high end and newish phone's touch screen, is that callouses (hilariously/amazingly/sadly/etc I have them on my fingertips from typing...) can cause the touch sensors to fail to recognize touches in a pretty arbitrary way. Until you notice the pattern, it basically looks like it's ignoring your input or sometimes it will register it in the wrong place. As a programmer, I get the substantial benefits of a touch UI, but I'd really like to see a dedicated and more tactile interface for the ballot itself due to fundamental input issues like that. I can live with a little fumbling with a touch UI to do high level stuff that might need to be customized often, but when it gets down to the ballot choices, I want there to be no doubt.
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, and Hannity is going with "Half asleep and didn't put my glasses on. Lol. I wish I had a better excuse." as his explanation for his nonsense tweets last night.
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
soren_lorensen: "For those saddened by learning of Yuengling's unfortunate politics, might I suggest picking up some Straub?"
You sure about Straub's politics? St. Mary's is not exactly Clinton country.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2016
You sure about Straub's politics? St. Mary's is not exactly Clinton country.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2016
RNC In Legal Trouble Over Trump Call For Poll-Watchers | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
callouses (hilariously/amazingly/sadly/etc I have them on my fingertips from typing...) can cause the touch sensors to fail to recognize touches in a pretty arbitrary way
this is getting to be a big problem for me on my iPad with callouses from guitar and bass (which gives you right hand callousing, too, if you play with your fingers). Sometimes my right pinky finger is the only one that works.
posted by thelonius at 11:48 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
this is getting to be a big problem for me on my iPad with callouses from guitar and bass (which gives you right hand callousing, too, if you play with your fingers). Sometimes my right pinky finger is the only one that works.
posted by thelonius at 11:48 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Some good Yuengling substitutes listed here. I'd already relegated "Vitamin Y" to the status of occasional college nostalgia beer, so it won't be all that hard to boycott.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:52 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:52 AM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter: Half asleep and didn't put my glasses on. Lol. I wish I had a better excuse.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:53 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
You sure about Straub's politics? St. Mary's is not exactly Clinton country.
Not sure-sure, but they are one of the few (just two, I think) breweries that still uses returnable, refillable bottles for environmental reasons, and the PA Resources Council recently gave them an environmental stewardship award. I couldn't find any direct evidence of douchelordery on the part of the current family members running it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2016
Not sure-sure, but they are one of the few (just two, I think) breweries that still uses returnable, refillable bottles for environmental reasons, and the PA Resources Council recently gave them an environmental stewardship award. I couldn't find any direct evidence of douchelordery on the part of the current family members running it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2016
douchelordery
/adds to spellchecker as approved word
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
/adds to spellchecker as approved word
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
One that catches me fairly regularly, even with my relatively high end and newish phone's touch screen, is that callouses (hilariously/amazingly/sadly/etc I have them on my fingertips from typing...) can cause the touch sensors to fail to recognize touches in a pretty arbitrary way.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:42 PM
this is getting to be a big problem for me on my iPad with callouses
posted by thelonius at 2:48 PM
I feel like maybe you guys are playing the piano too hard
/derail, no chaser
posted by miles per flower at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:42 PM
this is getting to be a big problem for me on my iPad with callouses
posted by thelonius at 2:48 PM
I feel like maybe you guys are playing the piano too hard
/derail, no chaser
posted by miles per flower at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [33 favorites]
Hillary is at her best when she's boosting others. Her introduction of Mrs. Obama was the most passionate I've heard her.
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ari Berman: North Carolina Republicans Tried to Disenfranchise a 100-Year-Old African-American Woman
Hardison’s registration was challenged by Shane Hubers, a Belhaven Republican, based on a mailing done last year by a candidate for Mayor. Mail that was returned as undeliverable in 2015 became the basis for the challenge list.posted by zombieflanders at 12:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [43 favorites]
But the mailings included many incorrect addresses. “My mail comes to the post office,” Hardison told WNCT TV, which brought attention to her plight in an October 18 broadcast. “I don’t have no mail come to the house. Ever since I’ve been here, my mail has been coming to the post office.”
The challenge list compiled by Republicans also overwhelmingly targeted black and Democratic voters. “Of the 138 challenged, 92 of them were black and registered Democrats. 28 voters were unaffiliated, 17 were Republicans, and 1 was Libertarian,” reported WNCT.
Hardison’s challenge was withdrawn after a local outcry, but 14 voters have been purged so far in recent weeks in Beaufort County, which previously had to approve its voting changes with the federal government under the Voting Rights Act because of a history of discrimination.
The North Carolina NAACP says the purge violates the National Voter Registration Act, which “prohibits the mass removal of voters from the rolls within the 90 days prior to the election.”
“These purges have a long history of being racial and inaccurate,” says Penda Hair, a lawyer for the North Carolina NAACP.
This rally in Winston-Salem NC with Michelle & Hillary is so good.
posted by cashman at 12:03 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by cashman at 12:03 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on? All the poll aggregates I've seen - even Fox News - shows Clinton leading comfortably. I remember Romney's "unskewed" polling that gave them false hope, but what does Trump have? Is there any place that's putting him ahead in the Electoral College?
Do they really think all the polls are wrong, or that something will be done to stop "illegals" voting, or is it confirmation bias? What is it?
I'm seeing a similar thing here when people talk about the Latino vote coming out massively in Florida and Texas and turning this into a rout, when any movement along those lines would be captured in the polling that's being done. So it's a bipartisan thing to imagine your own side has more support than the evidence indicates. But that doesn't seem to account for the Trump supporters thinking there's a 100 point swing in the Electoral College predictions. The lowest I've seen for Clinton is 272, and the highest for Trump is 191. There is nothing to suggest he can turn this around, so what are they basing their hopes on?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 12:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Do they really think all the polls are wrong, or that something will be done to stop "illegals" voting, or is it confirmation bias? What is it?
I'm seeing a similar thing here when people talk about the Latino vote coming out massively in Florida and Texas and turning this into a rout, when any movement along those lines would be captured in the polling that's being done. So it's a bipartisan thing to imagine your own side has more support than the evidence indicates. But that doesn't seem to account for the Trump supporters thinking there's a 100 point swing in the Electoral College predictions. The lowest I've seen for Clinton is 272, and the highest for Trump is 191. There is nothing to suggest he can turn this around, so what are they basing their hopes on?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 12:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Question in regards to the 2010 census and gerrymandering: I know that in some places (NC notably) the gerrymandering went house to house. How often do people move? Will that end up affecting the voting by district? Has anyone talked about this yet?
posted by annsunny at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by annsunny at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
This kind of thing is super frustrating with touch screens.
Touch screen voting is an abomination and I did a little jig of joy when the Virginia legislature finally stepped up and forbade its continued use. They'd done this half-assed measure some years earlier forbidding municipalities from further investing in them, but they'd left the door open for regions - like here in Arlington - to continue using what they had until they croaked. So our chief elector had opted to add optical scanning but have it as a supplement to the touch screens. So we would have them both set up and provide people the choice.
It just made me itchy to have this system capturing votes and recording them in a way that was never fully reversible. With the scanned paper you could always fall back to looking at the marks on the page. With the touch screen you just have to hope that what the system recorded on the ticker tape matched what the voter actually did. How could you ever know?
I once commented to another worker that they should have just renamed it from a "recount" to a "fuck you, read the tape yourself." I don't think they liked my word choice but they acknowledged the pointlessness of a "recount" that amounts up to just looking at a printout a second time.
posted by phearlez at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Touch screen voting is an abomination and I did a little jig of joy when the Virginia legislature finally stepped up and forbade its continued use. They'd done this half-assed measure some years earlier forbidding municipalities from further investing in them, but they'd left the door open for regions - like here in Arlington - to continue using what they had until they croaked. So our chief elector had opted to add optical scanning but have it as a supplement to the touch screens. So we would have them both set up and provide people the choice.
It just made me itchy to have this system capturing votes and recording them in a way that was never fully reversible. With the scanned paper you could always fall back to looking at the marks on the page. With the touch screen you just have to hope that what the system recorded on the ticker tape matched what the voter actually did. How could you ever know?
I once commented to another worker that they should have just renamed it from a "recount" to a "fuck you, read the tape yourself." I don't think they liked my word choice but they acknowledged the pointlessness of a "recount" that amounts up to just looking at a printout a second time.
posted by phearlez at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
Rally crowd sizes, yard signs, and "I don't know any Hillary voters"
posted by theodolite at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2016 [34 favorites]
Rally crowd sizes, yard signs, and "I don't know any Hillary voters"
posted by theodolite at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2016 [34 favorites]
Hope.
posted by Coventry at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
The lowest I've seen for Clinton is 272, and the highest for Trump is 191.
Here you go. Currently has Trump at 215.
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
That whole constructing their own reality thing.
Rally crowd sizes, yard signs, and "I don't know any Hillary voters"
That's probably a better answer, but the "I believe it, therefore it must be so" crowd definitely enjoys that feeling.
posted by cashman at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here you go. Currently has Trump at 215.
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
That whole constructing their own reality thing.
Rally crowd sizes, yard signs, and "I don't know any Hillary voters"
That's probably a better answer, but the "I believe it, therefore it must be so" crowd definitely enjoys that feeling.
posted by cashman at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on? All the poll aggregates I've seen - even Fox News - shows Clinton leading comfortably. I remember Romney's "unskewed" polling that gave them false hope, but what does Trump have? Is there any place that's putting him ahead in the Electoral College?
The IBD and LAT tracking polls are showing ties within MOE.
posted by Talez at 12:17 PM on October 27, 2016
The IBD and LAT tracking polls are showing ties within MOE.
posted by Talez at 12:17 PM on October 27, 2016
Michelle is giving an amaaaazing speech right now. She's been such a fantastic surrogate.
Even with such an ugly race, this is a speech full of hope and optimism, and it's beautiful. The contrast with Trump's angry, hate-filled, conspiracy-fueled rhetoric is like night and day. When people talk about this election being about the idea of what this country should be? Yeah, this is exactly what I want our country to be.
posted by Salieri at 12:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Even with such an ugly race, this is a speech full of hope and optimism, and it's beautiful. The contrast with Trump's angry, hate-filled, conspiracy-fueled rhetoric is like night and day. When people talk about this election being about the idea of what this country should be? Yeah, this is exactly what I want our country to be.
posted by Salieri at 12:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
I'll be getting together with some friends tonight, most of which I assume are Trump supporters. Maybe I can find out what they think.
My gut is that people view the election like the a sporting event. Like, yeah, the Cubs will probably win the World Series, but you never know! Maybe Cleveland will just want it more, and maybe the Cubs drop a ball or two, and Cleveland can play hard, and have some good luck, and pull it off... You just never know!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'll be getting together with some friends tonight, most of which I assume are Trump supporters. Maybe I can find out what they think.
My gut is that people view the election like the a sporting event. Like, yeah, the Cubs will probably win the World Series, but you never know! Maybe Cleveland will just want it more, and maybe the Cubs drop a ball or two, and Cleveland can play hard, and have some good luck, and pull it off... You just never know!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, for the love of all that's holy…
@tucker_doherty Daylight Saving Time switches on November 6. That's right, this presidential campaign is an hour longer than you thought.posted by Lexica at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [69 favorites]
Rally crowd sizes, yard signs, and "I don't know any Hillary voters"
Adding: All the media and all of the polls are rigged and lying to us.
(smaller group) He is a gift from God therefore God will not let him lose.
posted by Jalliah at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Adding: All the media and all of the polls are rigged and lying to us.
(smaller group) He is a gift from God therefore God will not let him lose.
posted by Jalliah at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
Epistemic closure. To my mind, that's different from the Dems hoping for an unprecedented Latino turnout or tens of thousands of shy Clinton voters. The latter are within the realm of possibility: unlikely, sure, but there's at least some data and anecdata supporting those hopes (re Latino vote more than shy/hidden Clinton voters). And they remain, for the most part, just hopes in the starry-eyed "what if!!!" vein. Trump supporters' optimism is based on a contradictory mish mash of THE POLLS ARE LYING/SKEWED and THIS POLL OUT OF HUNDREDS SPEAKS THE TRUTH and THE MEDIA ARE ALL LYING EXCEPT FOR BREITBART AND FOX NEWS.
posted by yasaman at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Epistemic closure. To my mind, that's different from the Dems hoping for an unprecedented Latino turnout or tens of thousands of shy Clinton voters. The latter are within the realm of possibility: unlikely, sure, but there's at least some data and anecdata supporting those hopes (re Latino vote more than shy/hidden Clinton voters). And they remain, for the most part, just hopes in the starry-eyed "what if!!!" vein. Trump supporters' optimism is based on a contradictory mish mash of THE POLLS ARE LYING/SKEWED and THIS POLL OUT OF HUNDREDS SPEAKS THE TRUTH and THE MEDIA ARE ALL LYING EXCEPT FOR BREITBART AND FOX NEWS.
posted by yasaman at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Damn. Michelle Obama never fails to make me cry. It turned into an ugly cry when she brought up the biracial kid from Hawai'i and the daughter of an orphan going all the way to the White House.
posted by xyzzy at 12:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama live in Winston-Salem, NC
Honest to god, I thought this was another conspiracy theory.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [30 favorites]
Honest to god, I thought this was another conspiracy theory.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [30 favorites]
@tucker_doherty Daylight Saving Time switches on November 6. That's right, this presidential campaign is an hour longer than you thought.
Not for those of us in Hawaii or Arizona!
posted by melissasaurus at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Not for those of us in Hawaii or Arizona!
posted by melissasaurus at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
They think the enthusiasm of supporters at Trump rallies indicates that most people feel that way, I think
posted by thelonius at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2016
They think the enthusiasm of supporters at Trump rallies indicates that most people feel that way, I think
posted by thelonius at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2016
(Very) tangentially related: Lambchop's new album FLOTUS is now streaming @ NPR's First Listen.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
@tucker_doherty Daylight Saving Time switches on November 6. That's right, this presidential campaign is an hour longer than you thought.
Not for those of us in Hawaii or Arizona!
Indeed, if anything, its shorter for us in Hawaii because the odds are pretty good the pundits will have called the presidential election hours before our polls even close.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not for those of us in Hawaii or Arizona!
Indeed, if anything, its shorter for us in Hawaii because the odds are pretty good the pundits will have called the presidential election hours before our polls even close.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
In case you want to know more about Dick Yuengling, for some reason.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:27 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by uncleozzy at 12:27 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
The IBD and LAT tracking polls are showing ties within MOE.
Yeah, but those polls are shit.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Some Donald Trump Voters Warn of Revolution if Hillary Clinton Wins
...beneath the cheering, a new emotion is taking hold among some Trump supporters as they grapple with reports predicting that he will lose the election: a dark fear about what will happen if their candidate is denied the White House. Some worry that they will be forgotten, along with their concerns and frustrations. Others believe the nation may be headed for violent conflict.posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on October 27, 2016
The thing that worried me the other day while I was early voting was the large number of elderly women being visibly shepherded by their husbands at the polls.
Secret ballots don't matter if your man is standing at the next booth eyeballing your paper ballot as you fill it out.
Flicking through pictures of early voting on Flickr, this one from Tennessee is more interesting (to me, anyway) than most from a social/demographic/citizens doing something perspective.
posted by Wordshore at 12:32 PM on October 27, 2016
Secret ballots don't matter if your man is standing at the next booth eyeballing your paper ballot as you fill it out.
Flicking through pictures of early voting on Flickr, this one from Tennessee is more interesting (to me, anyway) than most from a social/demographic/citizens doing something perspective.
posted by Wordshore at 12:32 PM on October 27, 2016
Even though the Breitbart media universe is fantasyland it's still important to understand how it works and what it's saying. Like, even if you don't believe in Christianity, you need to learn a lot about it if you're studying the Middle Ages.
posted by theodolite at 12:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
This election is making me feel as though I cannot continue to be Orange Swan because orange has acquired such awful associations. Trump has managed to ruin a freaking colour.
Go to the produce market and get a delicious navel orange, savor it, and reclaim the color from the dark side.
posted by aught at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Go to the produce market and get a delicious navel orange, savor it, and reclaim the color from the dark side.
posted by aught at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Can anyone tell me what Trump supporters are basing their optimism on?
Not understanding statistics.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Not understanding statistics.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Mister Big Stuff, you're never gonna get my vo-o-ote!
posted by Don Pepino at 12:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Don Pepino at 12:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
They think the enthusiasm of supporters at Trump rallies indicates that most people feel that way, I think
It's weird and enraging and also kind of just really pathetic and sad. Their fatal flaw as voters and as human beings is a complete inability to model the mental states of others. They don't feel compassion for anyone because they can't even imagine what it would be like to be anyone but themselves. And this small-mindedness has inflicted them so thoroughly they can't even picture different people in a different room cheering for a different sort of candidate and actually meaning it.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:38 PM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
It's weird and enraging and also kind of just really pathetic and sad. Their fatal flaw as voters and as human beings is a complete inability to model the mental states of others. They don't feel compassion for anyone because they can't even imagine what it would be like to be anyone but themselves. And this small-mindedness has inflicted them so thoroughly they can't even picture different people in a different room cheering for a different sort of candidate and actually meaning it.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:38 PM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm guessing top brass feeling like they need this sort of address is somewhat unprecedented in our nation's history, yes?
Well, actually....
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:41 PM on October 27, 2016
Well, actually....
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:41 PM on October 27, 2016
The Frame That Holds the Big Picture: How Mothers and Daughters Can Change the Way We Talk About Being Women by Amber Tamblyn for Glamour
Somewhere between Donald Trump calling Hillary Clinton a woman with “tremendous hate in her heart” and “a nasty woman,” I found myself making a phone call to my mother I was hoping I could avoid forever. A story I shared about an encounter with an ex-boyfriend had gone viral, and I feared she would read about it in the news. When I told her, my mother’s reaction was unshockingly unshocked. “You know,” she began, “I have a story of my own I want to share with you.” [...]posted by melissasaurus at 12:41 PM on October 27, 2016 [92 favorites]
This is not a think piece asking you to reconsider Hillary Clinton’s voting record. I am asking you to reconsider the world in which Hillary Clinton has had to vote. I am not asking you to rethink a woman. I am asking you to rethink women, period. Go deep. See the frame that holds the big picture. Men have countless examples of leaders in public office, while women have had almost none. Whether you are an actress, a teacher, a candidate for student council or a candidate for President of the United States, if you are a woman you have navigated your life solely in a world built by and for men.
The version of Hillary Clinton we wish for doesn’t exist. That woman is the Madonna part of our nation’s complex, a symptom of the absurd cultural standards of perfection we apply to our girls. That the real Hillary’s most lauded quality is her tenacity is not surprising: It’s the one quality that any woman would have to have in spades to challenge our collective hallucination of what a woman is supposed to be.
The latest episode of This American Live, Seriously?, takes on the subject of living in an alternative not-necessarily-fact-based world. Specifically Act 1 talks about the delusion of Trump supporters.
and act 2 on the effort to abolish the Georgia Judicial Ethics Board will make dark squiggly lines appear above your head
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
and act 2 on the effort to abolish the Georgia Judicial Ethics Board will make dark squiggly lines appear above your head
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Early Texas voting report. This time early voting was on school property(admin bldg, not a school), so no open carry advocates around. Just one sign for each candidate, except the teahadist deputy who had a dozen or so. Parking lot was full, but the line to vote went quickly. As I was leaving, there was an elderly Latinx couple standing outside, reading the voter id rules, and I stopped and talked to them for a few to ask if they had questions, or if I could be of any help. The woman was worried because she didn't have a driver's license. When I explained that they could use some other items to prove registration address and fulfill the id requirement, they were relieved, and I asked if they wanted me to go in with them in case there was a language barrier, and they did, and there were no problems, they were able to vote with no hassle. Once back outside, we hugged, and put our stickers on, and headed out into the great wide open.
I was vote #256, which made me kinda geek laugh. The demographic that was there with me was 90% white, and I'd eat my Stetson if they didn't mostly look like they were there to vote against Hillary. A lot of men wearing their resting bitch faces, whereas the women and POC, were relaxed and talking to each other.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:44 PM on October 27, 2016 [102 favorites]
I was vote #256, which made me kinda geek laugh. The demographic that was there with me was 90% white, and I'd eat my Stetson if they didn't mostly look like they were there to vote against Hillary. A lot of men wearing their resting bitch faces, whereas the women and POC, were relaxed and talking to each other.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:44 PM on October 27, 2016 [102 favorites]
This election is making me feel as though I cannot continue to be Orange Swan because orange has acquired such awful associations. Trump has managed to ruin a freaking colour.And elephants are admirable, no matter what the associated political party.
Go to the produce market and get a delicious navel orange, savor it, and reclaim the color from the dark side.
posted by kingless at 12:46 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
The latest episode of This American Live, Seriously?, takes on the subject of living in an alternative not-necessarily-fact-based world. Specifically Act 1 talks about the delusion of Trump supporters.
Act IV is Leslie Odom Jr from Hamilton singing a song by Sara Bareilles that imagines Obama's thoughts... The circle is complete.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:47 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Act IV is Leslie Odom Jr from Hamilton singing a song by Sara Bareilles that imagines Obama's thoughts... The circle is complete.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:47 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Some Donald Trump Voters Warn of Revolution if Hillary Clinton Wins
I...don't respond well to threats. Threats like this get me FIRED UP! I mean, I really hope that there is zero bloodshed or violence over this but if I've got no choice, BRING IT!
I'm a pretty reasonable person, I find it easy to empathize with others and debate in good faith. Threats just make me want to fight. In this case, it makes me want to fight for massive D blowout that firmly shuts down any thoughts of violent revolt.
I've already voted and I'm taking a couple of days off next week to volunteer for the campaign but I might circle back and read more about these threats just get myself fired up before I go volunteer.
posted by VTX at 12:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I...don't respond well to threats. Threats like this get me FIRED UP! I mean, I really hope that there is zero bloodshed or violence over this but if I've got no choice, BRING IT!
I'm a pretty reasonable person, I find it easy to empathize with others and debate in good faith. Threats just make me want to fight. In this case, it makes me want to fight for massive D blowout that firmly shuts down any thoughts of violent revolt.
I've already voted and I'm taking a couple of days off next week to volunteer for the campaign but I might circle back and read more about these threats just get myself fired up before I go volunteer.
posted by VTX at 12:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
The latest episode of This American Live, Seriously?, takes on the subject of living in an alternative not-necessarily-fact-based world. Specifically Act 1 talks about the delusion of Trump supporters.
I heard that first act while I was driving around over the weekend and it seriously made my head explode. Are other people like... able to deal with this and not freak out? Because I have absolutely no chill, I just immediately start babbling and spluttering because like seriously REALITY EXISTS I do not know how to deal with people who say it doesn't. (This is also why I sucked at being a pomo English major.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
I heard that first act while I was driving around over the weekend and it seriously made my head explode. Are other people like... able to deal with this and not freak out? Because I have absolutely no chill, I just immediately start babbling and spluttering because like seriously REALITY EXISTS I do not know how to deal with people who say it doesn't. (This is also why I sucked at being a pomo English major.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
And screw you GOP Governor and legislature for cutting early voting hours and locations. They also took away straight ticket voting so people are taking longer to fill out the ballot, adding to the long lines. Felt good to help make history today!
posted by marxchivist at 1:41 PM on October 27
WRAL Throngs of early voters overwhelm Wake polling sites
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by marxchivist at 1:41 PM on October 27
WRAL Throngs of early voters overwhelm Wake polling sites
Raleigh, N.C. — Twelve percent of the 6.8 million registered voters in North Carolina have already cast ballots in the first week of early voting.Fortunately they opened up 11 more sites today in Wake County.
Wake County opened nine polling places last Thursday, and they have been packed ever since. Four have seen more than 9,000 voters apiece, and more people cast ballots Tuesday than on the opening day, which is traditionally one of the busier times for early voting.[...]To date in Wake County, black voters are turning out for early voting at a high rate. They make up one out of five registered voters in the county but one out of every four early voters so far.
Women voters have an even bigger edge. They outnumber men in Wake County by about 15 percent, but their turnout in early voting so far is double that margin.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
zachlipton: Oh, and Hannity is going with "Half asleep and didn't put my glasses on. Lol. I wish I had a better excuse." as his explanation for his nonsense tweets last night.
My mental image of late night/early morning tweets from Sean and Donald now flips between them in a king size bed, side by side, groggily staying up too late tweeting replies, and the two of them in pajamas under a blanket and pillow fort, cell phones casting glows up on their faces as they sit hunched over, back-to-back, type-type-typing into the night. Either way, they guffaw every now and again and elbow each-other over responses they find particularly amusing.
Now I wish I were better at drawing from my imagination.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
My mental image of late night/early morning tweets from Sean and Donald now flips between them in a king size bed, side by side, groggily staying up too late tweeting replies, and the two of them in pajamas under a blanket and pillow fort, cell phones casting glows up on their faces as they sit hunched over, back-to-back, type-type-typing into the night. Either way, they guffaw every now and again and elbow each-other over responses they find particularly amusing.
Now I wish I were better at drawing from my imagination.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
What's happened to Trump? He hasn't fucked up badly for days. Or is it just outrage fatigue?
posted by Devonian at 1:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 1:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just watched the Maddow piece on the poll watchers linked by ChurchHatesTucker. That's some scary, enraging shit.
So seeing as there's a reasonable threat of organized voter intimidation, are local police departments planning to be on hand to protect people trying to vote (watching the watchers, as it were)? If this rhetoric escalates, could we even be looking at some National Guard-level action (as unlikely as that seems, given the number of Republican governors in office right now)?
I'd really like to not be able to say on November 9 that I live in a country where we're all on our own when it comes to vigilantism at polling places.
posted by Rykey at 1:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
So seeing as there's a reasonable threat of organized voter intimidation, are local police departments planning to be on hand to protect people trying to vote (watching the watchers, as it were)? If this rhetoric escalates, could we even be looking at some National Guard-level action (as unlikely as that seems, given the number of Republican governors in office right now)?
I'd really like to not be able to say on November 9 that I live in a country where we're all on our own when it comes to vigilantism at polling places.
posted by Rykey at 1:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
My mental image of late night/early morning tweets from Sean and Donald now flips between them in a king size bed, side by side, groggily staying up too late tweeting replies, and the two of them in pajamas under a blanket and pillow fort, cell phones casting glows up on their faces as they sit hunched over, back-to-back, type-type-typing into the night.
Close but not exact match: Ruben Bolling's Donald and John comics.
posted by kurumi at 1:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Close but not exact match: Ruben Bolling's Donald and John comics.
posted by kurumi at 1:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Salvador Hernandez: A Militant Group Is Urging Members To Patrol Polling Stations On Election Day
posted by zombieflanders at 1:27 PM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
Stewart Rhodes, president and founder of Oath Keepers, sent the “call to action” in an email to members early Wednesday morning, reaching chapters of the militant group.Memo to slimy, bigoted wingnut fucks like this: you don't need to be armed to be accused of voter intimidation. If you're sending in untrained, unverifiable people to challenge voters, it shouldn't matter. And since you've given away the game by admitting it's a partisan effort aimed at certain demographics, I hope your ass gets nailed to the wall.
The group describes itself as an organization composed of former and current military, police, and first responders to protect the Constitution, but the Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center describe it as an anti-government, right-wing organization composed of members who follow a “sovereign citizen” ideology that questions the legitimacy of the federal government.
[...]
Though Oath Keepers purports to be nonpartisan, Rhodes makes it clear the main purpose of the call to action is to spot and “hunt down” incidents of voter fraud “by leftists, but we will spot, document, and report any apparent attempt at vote fraud or voter intimidation by anyone.”
[...]
In past incidents and protests, Oath Keepers members have shown up heavily armed and wearing camouflage clothing or apparel with the group’s logo that is sold on its website.
But to monitor polling locations, group leaders are instructing militia members not to wear anything with the Oath Keepers logo or military symbols, acknowledging that their efforts could be seen as voter intimidation.
“If you wear Oath Keepers gear, you can expect to be accused by partisan Democrat activists and the media (essentially the same thing) of attempted voter intimidation,” the letter reads. “Do not make it easy for leftist partisans to attempt to twist this around on you and on this org.”
posted by zombieflanders at 1:27 PM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
Some Donald Trump Voters Warn of Revolution if Hillary Clinton Wins
The good thing about Hordes of Angry Patriots Marching Shoulder To Shoulder On Washington To Reclaim Their Country is that, generally speaking, they turn out to be twenty-five guys with signs and maybe one in a tricorne hat, standing around wondering, um, did the other 55 million take a wrong turn on US 50 and get lost?
I do not fear armed militias because, well, look at them. I do not fear assassination attempts very much because the Secret Service and FBI are pretty darned good at what they do. And I do not fear Civil War II: Electric Boogaloo because the oft-quoted belief of When The Revolution Starts, The Armed Forces Will All Join Us And Turn Their Guns On The Government isn't even good fanfiction. Besides, it's hard to get a Hoveround into a modern tank.
What I do fear, and fully expect, are outbursts of isolated violence here and there. Some yahoo gets angry and shoots into a local mosque because DEFENDING MAH COUNTRY. Some local politician gets shot because THIS IS WHERE THE REVOLUTION STARTS because their local city hall is a lot closer than D.C. and easier to get at. Someone dark-skinned gets beat up or shot because BLACK LIVES MATTER AND COLIN KAEPERNICK ARE ALL TERRORISTS. Somebody sees one too many Clinton/Kaine bumper stickers and tries to run them off the road. Not so much premeditated, well-planned, mass-movement derp as spontaneous, individual, unthinking derp.
Which isn't much comfort for the poor random bastard who gets targeted.
posted by delfin at 1:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [67 favorites]
The good thing about Hordes of Angry Patriots Marching Shoulder To Shoulder On Washington To Reclaim Their Country is that, generally speaking, they turn out to be twenty-five guys with signs and maybe one in a tricorne hat, standing around wondering, um, did the other 55 million take a wrong turn on US 50 and get lost?
I do not fear armed militias because, well, look at them. I do not fear assassination attempts very much because the Secret Service and FBI are pretty darned good at what they do. And I do not fear Civil War II: Electric Boogaloo because the oft-quoted belief of When The Revolution Starts, The Armed Forces Will All Join Us And Turn Their Guns On The Government isn't even good fanfiction. Besides, it's hard to get a Hoveround into a modern tank.
What I do fear, and fully expect, are outbursts of isolated violence here and there. Some yahoo gets angry and shoots into a local mosque because DEFENDING MAH COUNTRY. Some local politician gets shot because THIS IS WHERE THE REVOLUTION STARTS because their local city hall is a lot closer than D.C. and easier to get at. Someone dark-skinned gets beat up or shot because BLACK LIVES MATTER AND COLIN KAEPERNICK ARE ALL TERRORISTS. Somebody sees one too many Clinton/Kaine bumper stickers and tries to run them off the road. Not so much premeditated, well-planned, mass-movement derp as spontaneous, individual, unthinking derp.
Which isn't much comfort for the poor random bastard who gets targeted.
posted by delfin at 1:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [67 favorites]
A shocking thing is that, in some states, absolutely anyone can just walk up and challenge a voter's registration, and they will act on it, forcing the voter to submit a provisional ballot.
posted by thelonius at 1:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 1:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am finding it very difficult to imagine the type of revolution that might occur with Trump supporters. These are sheeple, closet racists and other deplorables who find safety in numbers, but whose own sense of righteous independence will prevent them from ever actually organizing.
Oh, a few might become emboldened enough to do some domestic terror stuff (not that that isn't frightening) but full on revolution takes more than just bluster.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, a few might become emboldened enough to do some domestic terror stuff (not that that isn't frightening) but full on revolution takes more than just bluster.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
on preview, what delfin said.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:31 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:31 PM on October 27, 2016
I do not fear armed militias because, well, look at them... What I do fear, and fully expect, are outbursts of isolated violence here and there.
This. I know the type, they're all around me. About 99.x% of them are just angry bluster. It's the .x% that are worrisome.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
This. I know the type, they're all around me. About 99.x% of them are just angry bluster. It's the .x% that are worrisome.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
If Trump's non-existent ground game is anything to go by, these folks aren't very good at, like, showing up. However, I completely cosign delfin's concern about random lone wolves because that has already happened before and it will happen again and the current incitement is not making it any less likely. And for the people effected, it may not be a capital-R Revolution, but it is a revolution in their own lives, the lives of their loved ones, and their communities and I don't think we need to minimize that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Former Miss Finland is 12th woman to accuse Trump of sexual assault
posted by melissasaurus at 1:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Batshit insane Kelli Ward is going to try and unseat Jeff Flake in 2018.
Apparently, Trumpism is the new Tea Party.
posted by Talez at 1:38 PM on October 27, 2016
Apparently, Trumpism is the new Tea Party.
posted by Talez at 1:38 PM on October 27, 2016
Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama live in Winston-Salem, NC
Honest to god, I thought this was another conspiracy theory.
Heh. It also works as a phrase in Tamarian.
Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama, live in Winston-Salem, NC
A lot of other things from this election could work quite well in Tamarian, now that I think of it.
Donald, when the votes were counted.
Obama, his fucks to give gone.
Kellyanne, her eyes closed.
Latinx voters at the polls.
The elderly women voters, their faces wet.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Honest to god, I thought this was another conspiracy theory.
Heh. It also works as a phrase in Tamarian.
Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama, live in Winston-Salem, NC
A lot of other things from this election could work quite well in Tamarian, now that I think of it.
Donald, when the votes were counted.
Obama, his fucks to give gone.
Kellyanne, her eyes closed.
Latinx voters at the polls.
The elderly women voters, their faces wet.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Sadly, "woman accuses Donald Trump" has become a near daily occurrence, and we've all long since run out of evens to summon up the necessary outrage.
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
zombieflanders: A Militant Group Is Urging Members To Patrol Polling Stations On Election Day
In all these threads I've never understood what voter fraud is supposed to look like. What's step 2 after they show up to the polls? I mean, I know the ultimate effect will be to intimidate people from voting, especially people of color, but in their heads people never see themselves as the villain. These delusional guys surely think of themselves as heroes, but even a delusional hero should realize there's no "step 2" after showing up at the polling place. It's not like a wheelbarrow labeled "fraudulent votes!" will get wheeled out of the place or they'd be able to recognize someone who was voting for their dead grandma.
What I mean is: the giant border wall is an idiotic plan for a lot of obvious reasons, but at least it's an idiotic plan with a clear set of steps. There's an internal logic to it. I don't get the logic here.
posted by bluecore at 1:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
In all these threads I've never understood what voter fraud is supposed to look like. What's step 2 after they show up to the polls? I mean, I know the ultimate effect will be to intimidate people from voting, especially people of color, but in their heads people never see themselves as the villain. These delusional guys surely think of themselves as heroes, but even a delusional hero should realize there's no "step 2" after showing up at the polling place. It's not like a wheelbarrow labeled "fraudulent votes!" will get wheeled out of the place or they'd be able to recognize someone who was voting for their dead grandma.
What I mean is: the giant border wall is an idiotic plan for a lot of obvious reasons, but at least it's an idiotic plan with a clear set of steps. There's an internal logic to it. I don't get the logic here.
posted by bluecore at 1:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Behind the retreat of the Koch brothers' operation (Politico, 10/27/16) Donald Trump’s rise led the conservative billionaires to scale back their political operation. Can they bounce back?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2016 [26 favorites]
On a drizzly Monday morning in mid-September, about 200 staffers from the Koch brothers’ conservative advocacy network were summoned to the fifth floor auditorium of the Charles Koch Institute’s Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, and presented with some bleak news: their efforts to reshape American politics were faltering and were being scaled back amid concerns about lower-than-projected fundraising.Huh, it seems that Donald's campaign is good for the health of the nation.
In recent years, the deep-pocketed network’s forays into federal elections and policy fights had resulted in “very little success,” the managers were told by top Koch official Mark Holden, according to three people familiar with the meeting.
Another official detailed plans for a merger of existing network groups, announcing that the groups would be narrowing the universe of voters they were seeking to mobilize from 10 million to 5 million.
Holden predicted “donor malaise” in 2017, and said the network was consolidating its groups to become “more effective” and to “avoid drama.” He predicted difficult changes ahead, comparing them to the years of cold-hearted but successful football player personnel moves by Bill Belichick, coach of Holden’s beloved New England Patriots.
When the staffers filed out of the auditorium ... they were in a state of shock.
“Nobody talked on the way back. It was somber,” said a staffer who attended the meeting. In the weeks that followed, numerous network staffers began sending out resumes looking for new jobs, while others left suddenly, according to operatives inside and outside the network.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2016 [26 favorites]
Devonian, I think part of it is that he's saying the same nonsense as he's been saying (so nothing new) and another part is that you're right--anything new he's saying is so similar in tone and weight that we're too jaded to pay attention and react.
I was thinking that this calmer environment is what prompted his campaign to suggest another debate. Although the debates have all reflected badly on him, it's still possible that others in his campaign agree with him that all publicity is good publicity. Who can tell with this bunch, but it's been somewhat boring without new and different scandals of an ever escalating level regarding him.
posted by Silverstone at 1:51 PM on October 27, 2016
I was thinking that this calmer environment is what prompted his campaign to suggest another debate. Although the debates have all reflected badly on him, it's still possible that others in his campaign agree with him that all publicity is good publicity. Who can tell with this bunch, but it's been somewhat boring without new and different scandals of an ever escalating level regarding him.
posted by Silverstone at 1:51 PM on October 27, 2016
"Slow shit down so less people get to vote" would be the entirety of the plan, with maybe a little intimidation on the side.
posted by Artw at 1:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was finally added to a secret Clinton FB group and have been so distracted by it today. It's so awesome, it's like being invited to the best lunch table. On Tuesdays we wear pink pantsuits.
posted by zutalors! at 1:53 PM on October 27, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 1:53 PM on October 27, 2016 [27 favorites]
What I mean is: the giant border wall is an idiotic plan for a lot of obvious reasons, but at least it's an idiotic plan with a clear set of steps. There's an internal logic to it. I don't get the logic here [to stop voter fraud].
zombieflanders: Beth Reinhard: At ‘Poll Watcher Training’ Class, Republicans Trade Rumors, Fears of Fraud
Scare off people they deem to not be Americans.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:54 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
zombieflanders: Beth Reinhard: At ‘Poll Watcher Training’ Class, Republicans Trade Rumors, Fears of Fraud
Carol Loulis of Reston didn’t hesitate when asked her biggest concern. “Illegals voting,” she said, adding that she saw people voting in 2012 who didn’t appear to speak English. “I definitely should have called the attention of the election officials, but I think I let it go.”
Ms. Hendrix agreed that stopping illegal immigrants from voting was a top priority. “The president brings them into the country, and everything is organized,” she said. “Of course, if Luis Hernandez comes into the polling place and he has ID that shows the right address and everything matches up, so be it.”
Scare off people they deem to not be Americans.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:54 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not allowed to just hang around inside a polling place watching people, are you? If you're not currently voting, accompanying or assisting someone who's voting, or serving at the polling place in an official capacity, you're supposed to move along, I think. Or is this one of those things that varies by state?
posted by jackbishop at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by jackbishop at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2016
MSNBC is interviewing Cuban-American retired women who have voted for Trump because he "loves America, unlike the Democrats."
I just, I don't know.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
I just, I don't know.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Just watched the Maddow piece on the poll watchers linked by ChurchHatesTucker. That's some scary, enraging shit.
I wish she would have gone more into just how scary this is for the people affected by it, rather than emphasizing the specifics of the election law/consent decree violations. My partner is a black woman living in a majority-black area near Philadelphia. Basically, right now she is being specifically targeted by the Republican nominee for president as someone that his armed, racist mobs should keep an eye on. Even though I know the chances of any real violence are probably small, it still makes me really worried.
posted by parallellines at 1:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
I wish she would have gone more into just how scary this is for the people affected by it, rather than emphasizing the specifics of the election law/consent decree violations. My partner is a black woman living in a majority-black area near Philadelphia. Basically, right now she is being specifically targeted by the Republican nominee for president as someone that his armed, racist mobs should keep an eye on. Even though I know the chances of any real violence are probably small, it still makes me really worried.
posted by parallellines at 1:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
What I do fear, and fully expect, are outbursts of isolated violence here and there. Some yahoo gets angry and shoots into a local mosque because DEFENDING MAH COUNTRY. Some local politician gets shot because THIS IS WHERE THE REVOLUTION STARTS because their local city hall is a lot closer than D.C. and easier to get at. Someone dark-skinned gets beat up or shot because BLACK LIVES MATTER AND COLIN KAEPERNICK ARE ALL TERRORISTS. Somebody sees one too many Clinton/Kaine bumper stickers and tries to run them off the road. Not so much premeditated, well-planned, mass-movement derp as spontaneous, individual, unthinking derp.
This is exactly the kind of violence I'm expecting, not an actual "revolution". More random incidents, targeting not-so-random populations that are already targets to begin with.
Violence against Muslims, violence against people of color, violence against women...it's already part of the background noise of our society. Will people really recognize when that violence is turned up a few notches? I want to think it will be, but I'm afraid it'll just be more "isolated incidents" that lead to nothing.
posted by Salieri at 1:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is exactly the kind of violence I'm expecting, not an actual "revolution". More random incidents, targeting not-so-random populations that are already targets to begin with.
Violence against Muslims, violence against people of color, violence against women...it's already part of the background noise of our society. Will people really recognize when that violence is turned up a few notches? I want to think it will be, but I'm afraid it'll just be more "isolated incidents" that lead to nothing.
posted by Salieri at 1:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Benchmark Politics: Of interest to our dedicated followers from California, Orange County is blue for the first time in our model.
posted by Wordshore at 2:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 2:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
Any isolated incident of sufficient violence could serve to disenfranchise many more than just any given person directly affected by it as the polling station would need to be shut down for police investigation. Lesser violence too could slow things to the point of voters not being able to cast votes due to time spent resolving conflicts. The amount of fear and anger involved in this election is just a terrible mix for democracy especially in a country that isn't quite used to such things.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 2:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
MSNBC broke into their broadcast a few minutes ago to say that law enforcement has begun breaking up a DAPL protector camp in North Dakota.
posted by XMLicious at 2:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 2:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Apparently God is really into strong central governments, for example.
There's a series of essays about this. The plan was to spread the work evenly among the writers.
Moses died after writing five. Luke... Luke wrote two. Paul wrote... the other 51!
posted by rokusan at 2:09 PM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
There's a series of essays about this. The plan was to spread the work evenly among the writers.
Moses died after writing five. Luke... Luke wrote two. Paul wrote... the other 51!
posted by rokusan at 2:09 PM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
Orange County is blue for the first time in our model.
Issa miracle!
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
Issa miracle!
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
In all these threads I've never understood what voter fraud is supposed to look like.
Brown.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not allowed to just hang around inside a polling place watching people, are you? If you're not currently voting, accompanying or assisting someone who's voting, or serving at the polling place in an official capacity, you're supposed to move along, I think. Or is this one of those things that varies by state?
It does, and exact picky process details may even vary by county. If you'd like to see the rules for in Arlington, just a few miles to the East of those Fairfax/Reston clowns, you can look at the 2016 Election Day Guide for poll workers in section 12-1. (In case this link goes stale, the page it came from is here) The Arlington BoE puts up with no shit and the guide is very clear about it.
I doubt we'll see any trouble in VA inside the polling places; it just requires too much attention and stamina for the super whackadoodles and, in my experience, precinct captains take no shit from them. In 2008 the (R) poll watcher disagreed about her right to stay in as we counted the votes and our cap said that's nice, GTFO and you can take it up with the BoE. I have not a doubt in my mind that anyone causing a scene would be promptly bounced and arrested if they don't want to leave on their own.
Now, outside past the 40 foot line? Any shitbird can show up, though, again, there's limits on how much impediment they can pose. Vague intimidation is possible of course but if they try to follow folks in to be a problem they're gonna have a bad time.
posted by phearlez at 2:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Brown.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not allowed to just hang around inside a polling place watching people, are you? If you're not currently voting, accompanying or assisting someone who's voting, or serving at the polling place in an official capacity, you're supposed to move along, I think. Or is this one of those things that varies by state?
It does, and exact picky process details may even vary by county. If you'd like to see the rules for in Arlington, just a few miles to the East of those Fairfax/Reston clowns, you can look at the 2016 Election Day Guide for poll workers in section 12-1. (In case this link goes stale, the page it came from is here) The Arlington BoE puts up with no shit and the guide is very clear about it.
While there have seldom been disruptive incidents in Arlington polling places, the Officers of Election may require any person who is found by a majority of the officers present to be in violation of §24.2-604 of the Code of Virginia to remain outside of the prohibited area, which is 40 feet from the entrance to the polling place. Election Officers also have the authority to call police if they believe any individual is deliberately disrupting the election and refusing to follow directions. Any person found guilty of violating §24.2-604 shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanorFurther, here in Virginia poll watchers need to have prior auth from the party and present their letter when they show up. In all my poll worker time there were only ever a couple of watchers, and they were exceedingly boring - they sat behind us while we checked in voters and ticked marks on their sheets. They were really only there to know who to call and offer assistance getting to the polls.
I doubt we'll see any trouble in VA inside the polling places; it just requires too much attention and stamina for the super whackadoodles and, in my experience, precinct captains take no shit from them. In 2008 the (R) poll watcher disagreed about her right to stay in as we counted the votes and our cap said that's nice, GTFO and you can take it up with the BoE. I have not a doubt in my mind that anyone causing a scene would be promptly bounced and arrested if they don't want to leave on their own.
Now, outside past the 40 foot line? Any shitbird can show up, though, again, there's limits on how much impediment they can pose. Vague intimidation is possible of course but if they try to follow folks in to be a problem they're gonna have a bad time.
posted by phearlez at 2:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have not a doubt in my mind that anyone causing a scene would be promptly bounced and arrested if they don't want to leave on their own.
One of the things I'm kind of worried about is violence against cops from people who "know our rights!" I'm really hoping I'm wrong, but, well....
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:27 PM on October 27, 2016
One of the things I'm kind of worried about is violence against cops from people who "know our rights!" I'm really hoping I'm wrong, but, well....
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:27 PM on October 27, 2016
About Utah's numbers, it is an even heat as of today's polls, reported in the local paper. It is hard for Utah to choke that down, and report it, but that is what is up. The business of Trump at 68% is way off.
Evan McMullin, is unmarried, and has never been married. He says something vague, like it is something he wants to do, or try. Pictures with him holding children are just, you know, going for that Utah normal look. His parents are divorced, and his Mom remarried a woman. He says almost positive things about gay marriage, including the words, choice between adults.
I mention this because a few replies up, someone was talking about Evan McMullin and his wife. No wife. Nope.
posted by Oyéah at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Evan McMullin, is unmarried, and has never been married. He says something vague, like it is something he wants to do, or try. Pictures with him holding children are just, you know, going for that Utah normal look. His parents are divorced, and his Mom remarried a woman. He says almost positive things about gay marriage, including the words, choice between adults.
I mention this because a few replies up, someone was talking about Evan McMullin and his wife. No wife. Nope.
posted by Oyéah at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Disruptive strategies at the polls, aside from antagonizing voters, will slow the voting process down. I used to run one of the busiest polling places in Utah, and we were busy, busy, busy, with not a lot of wiggle room. We didn't even feel good about taking breaks because the lines were long and we didn't want to slow down the process for anyone.
posted by Oyéah at 2:30 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 2:30 PM on October 27, 2016
New David Duke ad: Vote for Donald Trump and David Duke.
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) October 27, 2016
posted by tonycpsu at 2:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) October 27, 2016
posted by tonycpsu at 2:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Some interesting Q state poll info. Go Georgia! Getting that and AZ would be amazing.
@LukeBrinker
Quinnipiac:
GA: Trump 44, Clinton 43
IA: Clinton 44, Trump 44
NC: Clinton 47, Trump 43
VA: Clinton 50, Trump 38
2016 Presidential Swing State Polls
@LukeBrinker
Early voters:
GA: Clinton 48, Trump 42
IA: Clinton 61, Trump 27
NC: Clinton 62, Trump 34
@IAStartingLine
Iowa:
Final early vote margin 2012: +20 Obama
Quinnipiac's early vote margin now: +34 Clinton
Democrats Dominating Iowa Early Vote Margin, Poll Finds
posted by chris24 at 2:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
@LukeBrinker
Quinnipiac:
GA: Trump 44, Clinton 43
IA: Clinton 44, Trump 44
NC: Clinton 47, Trump 43
VA: Clinton 50, Trump 38
2016 Presidential Swing State Polls
@LukeBrinker
Early voters:
GA: Clinton 48, Trump 42
IA: Clinton 61, Trump 27
NC: Clinton 62, Trump 34
@IAStartingLine
Iowa:
Final early vote margin 2012: +20 Obama
Quinnipiac's early vote margin now: +34 Clinton
Democrats Dominating Iowa Early Vote Margin, Poll Finds
posted by chris24 at 2:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Ted Cruz tries to lay the groundwork for shrinking the Supreme Court
Cruz: "There is certainly long historical precedent for a Supreme Court with fewer justices." The Constitution doesn't set the number of justices on the Supreme Court. The Judiciary Act of 1789 set the number of justices at six. Congress subsequently increased the number of justices to seven in 1807, nine in 1837, and ten in 1863. The Judicial Circuits Act of 1866 provided for the gradual reduction in the number of seats to seven, but it was superseded by the Judiciary Act of 1869, which set the number of seats to nine.
So, the long historical precedent is the 179 years since 1837 that there have been at least nine justices on the Court.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
MSNBC is interviewing Cuban-American retired women who have voted for Trump because he "loves America, unlike the Democrats."Older Cuban-American refugees associate Democrats with socialist policies that remove personal choice and individual freedom; they also view Republicans as the anti-Red party, Trump's Putin bromance notwithstanding. Younger Cuban-Americans are shifting Democrat.
I just, I don't know.
posted by xyzzy at 2:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I mention this because a few replies up, someone was talking about Evan McMullin and his wife. No wife. Nope.
It was a joke for old people.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Every news anchor can relate to Trump trying to read the prompter here & pronounce Dixon Ticonderoga—"whatever the hell they make" (video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:44 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:44 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
"whatever the hell they make"
"Trump so not a reader that he never even stared blankly at his pencils."
posted by holgate at 2:46 PM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
"Trump so not a reader that he never even stared blankly at his pencils."
posted by holgate at 2:46 PM on October 27, 2016 [28 favorites]
Clearly, he never took any of his kids shopping for school supplies.
posted by zachlipton at 2:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
The fact that he's from NY and went to school in the Hudson Valley and cannot pronounce Ticonderoga is actually pretty shocking.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 2:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [24 favorites]
Fortunately they opened up 11 more sites today in Wake County.
My brother voted in Wake County today and had to wait for three hours. I'm not sure when he went or where he went.
posted by marxchivist at 2:56 PM on October 27, 2016
My brother voted in Wake County today and had to wait for three hours. I'm not sure when he went or where he went.
posted by marxchivist at 2:56 PM on October 27, 2016
In a tirade against renewables, Trump claims wind power ‘kills all the birds’
It’s true that wind turbines account for the deaths of between 140,000 and 368,000 birds annually. But that figure pales in comparison to the number of birds killed by cell towers (6.8 million) and glass building collisions (up to one billion) each year. And the biggest bird killer of all? Cats, which kill up to 3.7 billion birds annually.posted by kirkaracha at 2:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [23 favorites]
In Ohio, Trump seems to have just suggested that we cancel the election and just give him the presidency.
edit: Here's an article with video.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
edit: Here's an article with video.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
oneswellfoop: Older Cuban-American refugees associate Democrats with... the unsuccessful Bay of Pigs invasion under President Kennedy. Also, Lucille Ball divorcing Desi Arnaz.
Also Elián González under Bill Clinton.
posted by bluecore at 2:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also Elián González under Bill Clinton.
posted by bluecore at 2:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
In a tirade against renewables, Trump claims wind power ‘kills all the birds’
He certainly seems like someone who gives a shit about birds.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
He certainly seems like someone who gives a shit about birds.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
In a tirade against renewables, Trump claims wind power ‘kills all the birds’
/me blearily ticks off 'tilting at windmills' achievement.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:00 PM on October 27, 2016 [87 favorites]
/me blearily ticks off 'tilting at windmills' achievement.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:00 PM on October 27, 2016 [87 favorites]
Re: Trump Supporters and Their Hope
I posted a question on Facebook a few hours ago asking who people thought would win and why. As mentioned before, I'm a Pentecostal and have a pretty conservative social circle. Answers so far:
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
I posted a question on Facebook a few hours ago asking who people thought would win and why. As mentioned before, I'm a Pentecostal and have a pretty conservative social circle. Answers so far:
- Solid Hillary supporter, who thinks Hillary will win based on polls. Specifically cited 538.
- Reluctant Hillary supporter, thinks Hillary will win because Trump hasn't reached out to undecideds. Also thinks that many, like himself, are voting against Trump.
- A mention of Evan McMullin by someone who I know is aware of, and believes, the polls showing a Clinton win. I think he's a "voting his conscience" Republican, so he very well may be voting McMullin.
- Solid Trump who thinks Trump will win! He says they majority of America knows how corrupt the Clintons are. When asked for detail, he said he just thinks everyone has seen it. Reluctant Hillary supporter just asked him how Trump's character flaws figure into that, and I'm about to get a part-time job as a Facebook moderator.
- A former politics teacher who is most likely a #NeverTrump conservative says it'll be a solid Clinton win because Trump has made no effort to gain supporters outside of the base.
- Single issue abortion voter, supporting Trump, thinks Hillary will win due to 3rd party spoilers.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
I think it is notable that while Clinton's percentage is dropping on 538, none of the states have flipped back. I'm wagering this means that the drop is from more marginal declines across the board as people who were always going to vote for Trump have had enough breathing room from the last big oppo drop to vocally say it.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
At this point I have a list of worries for what I see happening should Clinton win. None of it is "country slides off a cliff into civil war" stuff, because that's really far-fetched. As others have stated, there just aren't that many people in the US who are fighting mad. Mostly I worry about an uptick in awful things we already live with: mass shootings, a spike in domestic violence, louder and grosser racial rhetoric, and more intractable shittiness from Republican politicians.
Not that any of those things are worse than putting Trump in office. It's a miserable trade-off, though.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Not that any of those things are worse than putting Trump in office. It's a miserable trade-off, though.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Carol Loulis of Reston didn’t hesitate when asked her biggest concern. “Illegals voting,” she said, adding that she saw people voting in 2012 who didn’t appear to speak English. “I definitely should have called the attention of the election officials, but I think I let it go.”
*laughs*
She should visit New York. She'd lose her mind. Hopefully she'd also be unable to intimidate people here.
Voter registration forms and instructions in New York City are available in 16 languages. A tiny fraction of the over 200 languages that are spoken here.
posted by zarq at 3:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [41 favorites]
*laughs*
She should visit New York. She'd lose her mind. Hopefully she'd also be unable to intimidate people here.
Voter registration forms and instructions in New York City are available in 16 languages. A tiny fraction of the over 200 languages that are spoken here.
More than half of the 1.6 million immigrants living in New York City are citizens and 853,000 people residing in the city speak languages other than English, according to the New York City Mayor’s Office of Immigrant Affairs (MOIA).
posted by zarq at 3:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [41 favorites]
The fact that he's from NY and went to school in the Hudson Valley and cannot pronounce Ticonderoga is actually pretty shocking.I want to hear him say "Skaneatles." (Locals say "Skinny-atlas.")
posted by xyzzy at 3:05 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Barack Obama's Sweet Revenge Tour
Here's the thing. For years, Republican politicians and the far-right media outlets have pumped up all kinds of crazy stuff about me. About Hillary. About Harry. They said I wasn't born here. They said climate change is a hoax. They said that I was going to take everybody's guns away! They said that while we were doing military exercises that we've been doing forever, suddenly this was a plot to impose martial law. This is what they've been saying for years now! So people have been hearing it they start thinking well maybe it's true! And if the world they've been seeing is I'm powerful enough to cause hurricanes on my own and to steal everybody's guns in the middle of the night and impose martial law—even though I can't talk without a 'prompter—then is it any wonder that they end up nominating somebody like Donald Trump?posted by kirkaracha at 3:05 PM on October 27, 2016 [159 favorites]
And the fact is that there are a lot of politicians who knew better. There are a lot of senators who knew better but they went along with these stories because they figured you know what this'll help rile up the base, it'll give us an excuse to obstruct what we're trying to do, we won't be able to appoint judges, we'll gum up the works, we'll create gridlock, it'll give us a political advantage. So they just stood by and said nothing and their base began to actually believe this stuff. So Donald Trump did not start this. Donald Trump didn't start it, he just did what he always did which is slap his name on it, take credit for it, and promote it. That's what he always does. And so now, when suddenly it's not working and people are saying wow this guy's kind of out of line, all of a sudden these Republican politicians who were okay with all this crazy stuff up to a point suddenly they're all walking away. Oh, this is too much. So when you finally get him on tape bragging about actions that qualify as sexual assault and his poll numbers go down, suddenly that's a deal-breaker. Well what took you so long! What the heck! What took you so long! All these years!
Threats just make me want to fight.
Why hello. I too have the warrior gene, to the surprise of exactly no one.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why hello. I too have the warrior gene, to the surprise of exactly no one.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
"We should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump."
Has he always referred to himself like this—third person, last name only? I don't recall ever picking up on that particular quirk before. If it's a recent development, it seems like it might be revelatory of... something.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:15 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Has he always referred to himself like this—third person, last name only? I don't recall ever picking up on that particular quirk before. If it's a recent development, it seems like it might be revelatory of... something.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:15 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
For a story of alleged voter intimidation by Democrats and construction unions, consider the 1997 vote on Propositions D and F to build a new football stadium in San Francisco. The way I heard the story, probably in the now-defunct SF Bay Guardian, big guys in 49ers jackets hung around outside the polling places and poll workers looked at ballots before putting them in the box and signaled through a window to the toughs. Turns out there's much more alleged [sorry, all the SF Gate links from there appear dead], including a polling place supervisor later dying in a suspicious fire.
There'd be little point in intimidation in a solid red or blue state, but don't assume that this kind of thing can only happen in red states.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:16 PM on October 27, 2016
There'd be little point in intimidation in a solid red or blue state, but don't assume that this kind of thing can only happen in red states.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:16 PM on October 27, 2016
corruption involving the sports and construction industries, you say?
posted by entropicamericana at 3:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 3:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump is still mad about the wind turbines by his Scottish golf course. Which is crazy, all the best golf courses have windmills on them. And some jumps, and at least one vertical loop.
posted by ckape at 3:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [63 favorites]
posted by ckape at 3:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [63 favorites]
Threats just make me want to fight.
Why hello. I too have the warrior gene, to the surprise of exactly no one.
You just reminded me that come Thanksgiving I should be thankful that on Tuesday nights I go beat people with sticks.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Why hello. I too have the warrior gene, to the surprise of exactly no one.
You just reminded me that come Thanksgiving I should be thankful that on Tuesday nights I go beat people with sticks.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
In Ohio, Trump seems to have just suggested that we cancel the election and just give him the presidency.
Sure, Donald. Great idea. Maybe we should just appoint you Chancellor. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:25 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sure, Donald. Great idea. Maybe we should just appoint you Chancellor. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:25 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Almost like there is no reasonable center between those two options, right?
BLASPHEMER!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:29 PM on October 27, 2016
BLASPHEMER!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:29 PM on October 27, 2016
Did we know that Woody Guthrie wrote a song about Fred Trump?
Old Man Trump
Words by Woody Guthrie, Music by Ryan Harvey
I suppose that Old Man Trump knows just how much racial hate
He stirred up in that bloodpot of human hearts
When he drawed that color line
Here at his Beach Haven family project
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!
I'm calling out my welcome to you and your man both
Welcoming you here to Beach Haven
To love in any way you please and to have some kind of a decent place
To have your kids raised up in.
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!
© 2016 Copyright Woody Guthrie Publications, Inc. (BMI) & Ryan Harvey (ASCAP)
posted by xyzzy at 3:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Old Man Trump
Words by Woody Guthrie, Music by Ryan Harvey
I suppose that Old Man Trump knows just how much racial hate
He stirred up in that bloodpot of human hearts
When he drawed that color line
Here at his Beach Haven family project
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!
I'm calling out my welcome to you and your man both
Welcoming you here to Beach Haven
To love in any way you please and to have some kind of a decent place
To have your kids raised up in.
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!
© 2016 Copyright Woody Guthrie Publications, Inc. (BMI) & Ryan Harvey (ASCAP)
posted by xyzzy at 3:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
After Schumer pulled the DSCC out of Florida, Reid is bringing his Super PAC in to beat Rubio.
Super PAC tied to Senate Democrats putting new focus on Florida race
"The Senate Majority PAC, the super PAC tied to Democratic Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, is putting big bucks in Florida to boost Rep. Patrick Murphy in his race against Sen. Marco Rubio, the group told CNN on Thursday.
"This race is closing," spokesman Shripal Shah told CNN. "Voters know that Marco Rubio is only looking out for himself and they're going to hold him accountable for pushing a self-serving agenda at their expense."
"This afternoon Senate Majority PAC made a seven figure transfer to Floridians for a Strong Middle Class, a Florida based Super PAC supporting Patrick Murphy's campaign. The move comes hours after Senate Majority PAC announced a record fundraising haul -- $19.3 million -- covering the pre-general reporting period (October 1st thru 19th) that will be filed with the FEC today."
posted by chris24 at 3:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Super PAC tied to Senate Democrats putting new focus on Florida race
"The Senate Majority PAC, the super PAC tied to Democratic Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, is putting big bucks in Florida to boost Rep. Patrick Murphy in his race against Sen. Marco Rubio, the group told CNN on Thursday.
"This race is closing," spokesman Shripal Shah told CNN. "Voters know that Marco Rubio is only looking out for himself and they're going to hold him accountable for pushing a self-serving agenda at their expense."
"This afternoon Senate Majority PAC made a seven figure transfer to Floridians for a Strong Middle Class, a Florida based Super PAC supporting Patrick Murphy's campaign. The move comes hours after Senate Majority PAC announced a record fundraising haul -- $19.3 million -- covering the pre-general reporting period (October 1st thru 19th) that will be filed with the FEC today."
posted by chris24 at 3:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Clearly, he never took any of his kids shopping for school supplies.
I don't get the issue here. He can spell Montblanc.
posted by rokusan at 3:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't get the issue here. He can spell Montblanc.
posted by rokusan at 3:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Honestly, I think Schumer made the right call. For all that there's been some tightening, Murphy has never led in the polls there and it's an expensive longshot compared to the five or six neck-and-neck races that could do a lot more with the money.
On the other hand, I'm some dweeb making armchair calls from across the ocean based on incomplete information and no access to internal polling.
posted by kyrademon at 3:53 PM on October 27, 2016
On the other hand, I'm some dweeb making armchair calls from across the ocean based on incomplete information and no access to internal polling.
posted by kyrademon at 3:53 PM on October 27, 2016
One that catches me fairly regularly, even with my relatively high end and newish phone's touch screen, is that callouses (hilariously/amazingly/sadly/etc I have them on my fingertips from typing...) can cause the touch sensors to fail to recognize touches in a pretty arbitrary way.
Capacitive multitouch touch screens, which are used on nearly all phones and tablets today, require the touching object to be a bit electrically conductive. This is why you cannot operate them with a plastic stylus. You'll note that styluses for these devices tend to have a wide soft touch actuator. It is this electrical conductivity over a bit of area on the glass which is detected through the capacitance of the glass and lets the screen know you are touching it. Since callouses are dead they don't contain the same amount of moisture as living skin and they won't be detected correctly.
Our Louisiana touch voting machines, and to my knowledge pretty much all of them in regular use in the US, use resistive touch screens which are sensitive to pressure. You can usually tell that these have a little give because it is mechanical compression of the conductive screen material which is being detected. Resistive screens are not multitouch, and if you touch one at two points it will generally identify a single touch at some point between the two real touches. These screens have their own problems, particularly with calibration as they wear causing them to detect touch at some offset point, but callouses should not give you a problem with them.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Capacitive multitouch touch screens, which are used on nearly all phones and tablets today, require the touching object to be a bit electrically conductive. This is why you cannot operate them with a plastic stylus. You'll note that styluses for these devices tend to have a wide soft touch actuator. It is this electrical conductivity over a bit of area on the glass which is detected through the capacitance of the glass and lets the screen know you are touching it. Since callouses are dead they don't contain the same amount of moisture as living skin and they won't be detected correctly.
Our Louisiana touch voting machines, and to my knowledge pretty much all of them in regular use in the US, use resistive touch screens which are sensitive to pressure. You can usually tell that these have a little give because it is mechanical compression of the conductive screen material which is being detected. Resistive screens are not multitouch, and if you touch one at two points it will generally identify a single touch at some point between the two real touches. These screens have their own problems, particularly with calibration as they wear causing them to detect touch at some offset point, but callouses should not give you a problem with them.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Epic Rap Battles of History: Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton
Yeah, that's really quite good. They do have that "who won, you decide" tradition at every ending, but I think its pretty clear who they favor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:58 PM on October 27, 2016
Yeah, that's really quite good. They do have that "who won, you decide" tradition at every ending, but I think its pretty clear who they favor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:58 PM on October 27, 2016
Salvador Hernandez: A Militant Group Is Urging Members To Patrol Polling Stations On Election Day
Washington Post coverage of the same group Militia group calls on members to patrol polls on Election Day
I think this is going to be the big story of the next 12 days as Trump winds his supporters up to expect a rigged election. He is going to go down swinging, for sure. But as someone asked above, "What are they looking for?" Foreign languages? Skin color? Shiftiness? It's pretty difficult to spot the people who are not supposed to vote-- mainly because they don't exist.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Washington Post coverage of the same group Militia group calls on members to patrol polls on Election Day
Noting recent undercover video shot by conservative activists, Rhodes, a Montana attorney and Army veteran, told his supporters he is worried about “criminal vote fraud on an industrial scale.”Industrial scale. Wow. So like massive rows of robots? or thousands of bleary-eyed workers carrying their lunch pails? Maybe dressed in grey jumpsuits?
“We are, indeed, most concerned about expected attempts at voter fraud by leftists, but we will spot, document, and report any apparent attempt at vote fraud or voter intimidation by anyone, of whatever party,” he said.
Dress to blend with the crowd,” Rhodes wrote. “That may mean wearing a Bob Marley, pot leaf, tie-die peace symbol, or “Che” Guevara T — Shirt…or it may mean wearing working-man Carhartt pants and a plaid shirt.”Pro tip: can double as your Halloween outfit. All my lefty friends, on the other hand, will be dressed in camo and sportin' M16 rifles and Duck Dynasty beards.
I think this is going to be the big story of the next 12 days as Trump winds his supporters up to expect a rigged election. He is going to go down swinging, for sure. But as someone asked above, "What are they looking for?" Foreign languages? Skin color? Shiftiness? It's pretty difficult to spot the people who are not supposed to vote-- mainly because they don't exist.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I will be sort of delighted if we get a bunch of wingnuts in rasta hats and Marley tie die being incredibly unchill outside polling places.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 4:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
That may mean wearing a Bob Marley, pot leaf, tie-die peace symbol, or “Che” Guevara T — Shirt…
Yeah, nice try, narc.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:11 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah, nice try, narc.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:11 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
"Actblue" now joins the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, and many other orgs who I admire--but will never send another dollar to. Sigh.
Guys, no matter what the person with nice hair and the title "marketing consultant" says, some of us look at every email and every piece of physical mail as a violation of our trust, a waste of our donated money. If I donate $50 and get back $100 worth of mail over the next year asking me for more, it's really disheartening.
I donated directly to one of the tribes in ND, and have not heard a squeak other than "thank you". I'll put my money there.
posted by maxwelton at 4:17 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Guys, no matter what the person with nice hair and the title "marketing consultant" says, some of us look at every email and every piece of physical mail as a violation of our trust, a waste of our donated money. If I donate $50 and get back $100 worth of mail over the next year asking me for more, it's really disheartening.
I donated directly to one of the tribes in ND, and have not heard a squeak other than "thank you". I'll put my money there.
posted by maxwelton at 4:17 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
WaPo Facing potential loss, Trump expands the list of conspirators plotting against him
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
As he heads into a potential loss on Nov. 8, Trump has expanded the scale and scope of his accusations to include Democratic rival Hillary Clinton, the media, establishment leaders from both parties and unidentified “global financial powers.”So pretty much everyone in the world except Trump and his close circle of friends and family. He has been spending far too much time with Alex Jones and if I was his family I would be a little bit concerned about his raging paranoia.
“When the people who control the political power in our society can rig investigations like [Clinton’s] investigation was rigged, can rig polls, you see the phony polls, and rig the media, they can wield absolute power over your life, your economy and your country and benefit big-time by it,” Trump told a crowd this week in St. Augustine, Fla. “They control what you hear and what you don’t hear, what is covered, how it’s covered, even if it’s covered at all.”
The “power structure” he describes, according to a review of his speeches this week, includes banking institutions, the judiciary, media conglomerates, voting security experts, Democratic tricksters, scientific polling and also perhaps military leaders. He has also accused Clinton of meeting “with international banks to plot the destruction of U.S. sovereignty to enrich these global financial powers, her special-interest friends and her donors.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Carol Loulis of Reston didn’t hesitate when asked her biggest concern. “Illegals voting,” she said, adding that she saw people voting in 2012 who didn’t appear to speak English. “I definitely should have called the attention of the election officials, but I think I let it go.”
Reston is like, 15 miles, from DC, if that. She must be one of those suburban white people that's terrified of going into the big bad city, because half the people I pass on the street on a daily basis aren't speaking English. The other half are lawyers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Reston is like, 15 miles, from DC, if that. She must be one of those suburban white people that's terrified of going into the big bad city, because half the people I pass on the street on a daily basis aren't speaking English. The other half are lawyers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Live by the hack, die by the hack?
Payback? Russia Gets Hacked, Revealing Putin Aide's Secrets
"A Ukrainian group calling itself Cyber Hunta has released more than a gigabyte of emails and other material from the office of one of Vladimir Putin's top aides, Vladislav Surkov, that show Russia's fingerprints all over the separatist movement in the Ukraine.
While the Kremlin has denied the relationship between Moscow and the separatists, the emails show in great detail how Russia controlled virtually every detail of the separatist effort in the Russian-speaking regions of the Ukraine, which has torn Ukraine apart and led to a Russian takeover of Crimea.
And unlike the reported Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee, the Ukrainian hack reached deep into the office of the Russian president.
"This is a serious hack," said Maks Czuperski, head of the Digital Forensic Research Lab of the Atlantic Council (DFRL), which has searched through the email dump and placed selected emails on-line."
posted by chris24 at 4:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [30 favorites]
Payback? Russia Gets Hacked, Revealing Putin Aide's Secrets
"A Ukrainian group calling itself Cyber Hunta has released more than a gigabyte of emails and other material from the office of one of Vladimir Putin's top aides, Vladislav Surkov, that show Russia's fingerprints all over the separatist movement in the Ukraine.
While the Kremlin has denied the relationship between Moscow and the separatists, the emails show in great detail how Russia controlled virtually every detail of the separatist effort in the Russian-speaking regions of the Ukraine, which has torn Ukraine apart and led to a Russian takeover of Crimea.
And unlike the reported Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee, the Ukrainian hack reached deep into the office of the Russian president.
"This is a serious hack," said Maks Czuperski, head of the Digital Forensic Research Lab of the Atlantic Council (DFRL), which has searched through the email dump and placed selected emails on-line."
posted by chris24 at 4:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [30 favorites]
Carol Loulis of Reston didn’t hesitate when asked her biggest concern. “Illegals voting,” she said, adding that she saw people voting in 2012 who didn’t appear to speak English.
Trump has made open bigotry a shameless thing. Though hearing it and seeing it is repulsive, I also think this is the only way to conquer racism -- to expose it to air and light, by bringing it into the open where it can be fought.
I cannot say how much I am hoping for a decisive and inarguable HRC win on election day, because the clear repudiation of Trump is the key to stamping out the racism which powers his support.
posted by bearwife at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump has made open bigotry a shameless thing. Though hearing it and seeing it is repulsive, I also think this is the only way to conquer racism -- to expose it to air and light, by bringing it into the open where it can be fought.
I cannot say how much I am hoping for a decisive and inarguable HRC win on election day, because the clear repudiation of Trump is the key to stamping out the racism which powers his support.
posted by bearwife at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump is starting to sound like a Bizzaro World version of my stoner university housemate.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2016
Undocumented immigrants being always up for encounters with government and officials and police, you know they are game for some election fraud. Or maybe Big Chicken Processing pays them for their selfies.
posted by thelonius at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
maxwelton, you won't give money to any organization that uses ActBlue? Why?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:26 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:26 PM on October 27, 2016
PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — About 10 months after the 41-day takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a jury found 7 occupiers not guilty of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge.
How much do you want to bet some of these people start getting booked to speak at Trump rallies?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
How much do you want to bet some of these people start getting booked to speak at Trump rallies?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
Field report: still recruiting locals, but now with an emphasis on the last four days for GOTV for swing states (phonebanking and trips to the neighboring state.)
Weirdness of the day: A couple days after I started volunteering, I got a call from my call center asking me to volunteer. Funny, but our lists can sit around for days, so I get it. Today I got called again. I told them I was going to be there in a couple hours and to show that to one of the coordinators. When I was there, in a completely different context, I learned that we were supposed to mark people already volunteering as "not interested" so they get removed from the list. Counterintuitive, but OK, that explains things. I get home and am telling this story to the S.O. when I get a phone call. Guess who it was.
This apparently happens a lot, to the point where people have called other people sitting in the same office! Why they don't take people with a hard commit off the list is a mystery. We fill out a separate form for them, so we know who they are.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Weirdness of the day: A couple days after I started volunteering, I got a call from my call center asking me to volunteer. Funny, but our lists can sit around for days, so I get it. Today I got called again. I told them I was going to be there in a couple hours and to show that to one of the coordinators. When I was there, in a completely different context, I learned that we were supposed to mark people already volunteering as "not interested" so they get removed from the list. Counterintuitive, but OK, that explains things. I get home and am telling this story to the S.O. when I get a phone call. Guess who it was.
This apparently happens a lot, to the point where people have called other people sitting in the same office! Why they don't take people with a hard commit off the list is a mystery. We fill out a separate form for them, so we know who they are.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump’s March to Loserland Is Only Beginning
I particularly like the anecdote about the guy who bought Trump.org and Trump.tv (which redirects to the .org domain).
posted by melissasaurus at 4:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
I particularly like the anecdote about the guy who bought Trump.org and Trump.tv (which redirects to the .org domain).
posted by melissasaurus at 4:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
Jesus fucking Christ, what does it take to nail these assholes to the wall? They fucking livestreamed the whole damned thing!
On the other hand,
On the other hand,
Ammon Bundy’s attorney Marcus Mumford was tackled to the ground in court after arguing that his client was free to go in light of the verdict. He and his brother, Ryan, are still under federal indictment in Nevada.posted by Existential Dread at 4:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
jury found 7 occupiers not guilty of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge.
The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [80 favorites]
The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [80 favorites]
I also regret giving to a group fund on Act Blue. I get over twenty emails a day asking for money now.
Will stick to my local planned parenthood fund in the future.
posted by tofu_crouton at 4:33 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Will stick to my local planned parenthood fund in the future.
posted by tofu_crouton at 4:33 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
The law is clearly utterly meaningless where Trumpy motherfuckers are involved. Sigh.
posted by Artw at 4:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Reston is like, 15 miles, from DC, if that. She must be one of those suburban white people that's terrified of going into the big bad city, because half the people I pass on the street on a daily basis aren't speaking English. The other half are lawyers.Reston is in Fairfax County, a part of Northern Virginia that has been completely transformed in the past 30 years or so by the influx of immigrants and their children. Reston is whiter than the rest of the county, but it's still about 10% black, about 10% Latino, about 10% Asian, and about 10% other/ two or more races. She's not hating on people in DC. She's hating on her neighbors.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
WaPo Facing potential loss, Trump expands the list of conspirators plotting against him
If you think everyone is out to get you, maybe you should consider the theory that you're just an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you think everyone is out to get you, maybe you should consider the theory that you're just an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
maxwelton, I feel you. All these organizations need a huge "NEVER, EVER FUCKING CALL ME EVER" checkbox. I have a four month old baby. It is difficult to get him to sleep. A ringing phone can fuck up my whole afternoon.
posted by phooky at 4:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by phooky at 4:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
FYI: The bottom of every ActBlue email says: "This email was sent to [email]. To unsubscribe from the ActBlue email list, please click here." I unsubscribed back in April and haven't gotten an ActBlue email since.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:38 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 4:38 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yea Reston is much more diverse than it was when I was a child. That said, I'm unsurprised that people like that immigrant hater are there. At all.
posted by zutalors! at 4:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zutalors! at 4:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I ordered swag from Hil's site and marked no emails. I'm happy to report that was pretty much true! I got an acknowledgement, and a thank you inviting me to donate. That's it. Yay!
However, Emily's List has been hounding me with multiple emails a day.
I donate monthly to planned parenthood, and get frequent emails. I'm pretty sure they gave my name to some local Dems. I don't mind the emails from PP so much, it's so important to me.
posted by annsunny at 4:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
However, Emily's List has been hounding me with multiple emails a day.
I donate monthly to planned parenthood, and get frequent emails. I'm pretty sure they gave my name to some local Dems. I don't mind the emails from PP so much, it's so important to me.
posted by annsunny at 4:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
> The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing
God, yes.
And as a government employee, it makes me feel pretty fucking vulnerable to know that if someone waves a gun at me when I'm out on a site visit, there apparently aren't any consequences to that.
posted by suelac at 4:41 PM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
God, yes.
And as a government employee, it makes me feel pretty fucking vulnerable to know that if someone waves a gun at me when I'm out on a site visit, there apparently aren't any consequences to that.
posted by suelac at 4:41 PM on October 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Unfortunately with this group fund I donated to, it seems like I have to unsubscribe from each candidate separately.
I talked to a candidate for state representative, and she told me that at this point in the campaign, donating to a PAC you trust is the way to go. They know which candidates need $X and are working closely with the campaigns to be sure it's used wisely. That way you won't donate to someone who has no real plans for that money.
posted by tofu_crouton at 4:43 PM on October 27, 2016
I talked to a candidate for state representative, and she told me that at this point in the campaign, donating to a PAC you trust is the way to go. They know which candidates need $X and are working closely with the campaigns to be sure it's used wisely. That way you won't donate to someone who has no real plans for that money.
posted by tofu_crouton at 4:43 PM on October 27, 2016
The bottom of every ActBlue email says: 'This email was sent to [email]. To unsubscribe from the ActBlue email list, please click here.'
Yeah, but that's opt-out. It's immoral to sign people up for a list unless they explicitly ask to be subscribed. (And apparently it's illegal in the EU.)
posted by kirkaracha at 4:44 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump’s March to Loserland Is Only Beginning
Personal anecdote similar to the many in this story. I shot a feature on Panama City for a travel magazine earlier this year and one of the things on the shot list was the view from Panaviera, a rooftop bar on the 66th floor in the Ocean Sun Casino at the Trump Ocean Club Hotel. As part of the feature I also had to shoot a bunch of leaders in the arts and culture community and they would usually ask what else I was shooting in Panama. Almost without exception, when I mentioned the Panaviera, they tried to talk me out of it, wanted me to not shoot it so it couldn't make the story because they didn't want their city associated with Trump.
posted by chris24 at 4:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Personal anecdote similar to the many in this story. I shot a feature on Panama City for a travel magazine earlier this year and one of the things on the shot list was the view from Panaviera, a rooftop bar on the 66th floor in the Ocean Sun Casino at the Trump Ocean Club Hotel. As part of the feature I also had to shoot a bunch of leaders in the arts and culture community and they would usually ask what else I was shooting in Panama. Almost without exception, when I mentioned the Panaviera, they tried to talk me out of it, wanted me to not shoot it so it couldn't make the story because they didn't want their city associated with Trump.
posted by chris24 at 4:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
A couple wonderful new posts on race, the United States, the evangelical/fundamentalist Christian political movement, and the Republican party from one of my favorite bloggers, Libby Anne.
Montana’s Robert Saunders: “I’m Not A Racist”
Robert Saunders’ Race Problem, and the Republican Party
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Montana’s Robert Saunders: “I’m Not A Racist”
There’s a famous quote from the Handmaid’s Tale: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” I would posit that we have a corollary when it comes to race: “White people are afraid they will be called racist. Black people are afraid they will be killed by the police.” Check out this article about Robert Saunders, a state legislature candidate in Billings, Montana, accused of making racist comments while in college [...]She followed the above post with one that explores this dynamic and how it specifically relates to the Republican party.
Note the use of the phrase “a racist.” Who uses the term that way? I certainly don’t. Saunders’ use of the term suggests that he sees it as a wholistic state of being rather than a term used to describe people who hold specific views or impulses. For the record, I wouldn’t call anyone “a sexist” either. I’d say that they were being sexist. Words matter. Language matters.
We live in a world where too many white people, like Saunders, are more concerned about not being called “racist” than they are about doing the introspection necessary to identify and root out insidious racist ideas and unconscious bias. That’s a problem.
Robert Saunders’ Race Problem, and the Republican Party
[Evangelical/Fundamentalist leaders] told us we were supposed to change the world. They told us to run for office. They told us not to say racist things on Facebook. No wait, they didn’t tell us that, and Robert Saunders, running for state legislature, is learning this the hard way.[...]I can't recommend these articles enough, especially if you are a white person. We, white people, need to do a much better job of educating ourselves about race and addressing our own implicit biases, so that PoC are not always called upon to do so.
My father used to say that white males were the most discriminated against group in our society, and he would tell my brothers that black people and women would always be hired over them. Once he complained about a black female colleague at work, calling her incompetent and claiming that she had only been hired because of her race and gender. [...]
I’m getting tired of Republicans repudiating remarks and comments that aren’t substantially out of line with what they’re already saying, if at all. The repudiated remarks and comments are simply more blunt—blunt enough to make the ultimate result of mainstream Republican policy and rhetoric clear. Republicans concerned about comments like Saunders’ need to get at the root of the problem rather than flailing about with individual branches.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
Katy Tur: Pence Plane w Gov onboard slid off the LGA runway. No injuries. Emergency crews onsite
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
@alivitali Trump says it was "absolutely" illegal for NBC to release 05 tape of hot mic comments. "You'll see" post-elex if he takes legal action.
Another lawsuit. How exciting. That Donald Trump sure is a wild and unpredictable guy!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Another lawsuit. How exciting. That Donald Trump sure is a wild and unpredictable guy!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
There’s a famous quote from the Handmaid’s Tale: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”
To be accurate, it's from the essay "Writing the Male Character" in Second Words: Selected Critical Prose 1960-1982.
To be accurate, it's from the essay "Writing the Male Character" in Second Words: Selected Critical Prose 1960-1982.
"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. "I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.posted by Lexica at 4:54 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
I hope everyone on the plane is okay. That sounds scary as hell.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:55 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:55 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Earmarks ... pork ... I won't object to your project or really even look at it if you don't get in the way of mine.
One year (quite a while ago), Ralph Hall (former Rep. from Texas) put forward his amendment. He wanted a half million dollars for his brother in law, who apparently had a method of extracting twice as much oil from a barrel of oil. Ed Markey went on a tirade about the wrongness of the proposal but he was opposing all pork. Someone rebutted Markey by pointed out that the amount was tiny and that every minute they debated the amendment was costing more than the amendment itself. The chair then asked Hall, if that was all he wanted and if they would have his vote for the budget. Hall, sour faced, grumbled an affirmative response to both questions. Vote was called, amendment accepted, check sent. It was wrong on every level yet people were more pissed at Markey for delaying them getting their entitlement.
posted by phoque at 4:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
One year (quite a while ago), Ralph Hall (former Rep. from Texas) put forward his amendment. He wanted a half million dollars for his brother in law, who apparently had a method of extracting twice as much oil from a barrel of oil. Ed Markey went on a tirade about the wrongness of the proposal but he was opposing all pork. Someone rebutted Markey by pointed out that the amount was tiny and that every minute they debated the amendment was costing more than the amendment itself. The chair then asked Hall, if that was all he wanted and if they would have his vote for the budget. Hall, sour faced, grumbled an affirmative response to both questions. Vote was called, amendment accepted, check sent. It was wrong on every level yet people were more pissed at Markey for delaying them getting their entitlement.
posted by phoque at 4:56 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump says it was 'absolutely' illegal for NBC to release 05 tape of hot mic comments. 'You'll see' post-elex if he takes legal action.
Are you gonna bark all day little Donnie? Or are you gonna bite?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
See, I told you. The Trump train totally isn't derailing. It's the Pence Plane and it de-reunway'd. Completely different situation.
Somebody check to make sure Christie didn't order a traffic study on the LGA runway.
Seriously, I'm glad there are no injuries, and nobody deserves to go through that.
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Somebody check to make sure Christie didn't order a traffic study on the LGA runway.
Seriously, I'm glad there are no injuries, and nobody deserves to go through that.
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
@alivitali Trump says it was "absolutely" illegal for NBC to release 05 tape of hot mic comments. "You'll see" post-elex if he takes legal action.
Why this now, weeks after the fallout from the release of the Access Hollywood tape has done its damage? Possibly they know another incriminating tape is ready to surface and are talking about lawyering up to try to intimidate potential leakers? *crosses fingers*
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:59 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why this now, weeks after the fallout from the release of the Access Hollywood tape has done its damage? Possibly they know another incriminating tape is ready to surface and are talking about lawyering up to try to intimidate potential leakers? *crosses fingers*
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:59 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, part of the backdrop behind the stage fell down at Trump's rally, so yeah, the metaphors are just everywhere today.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Why this now, weeks after the fallout from the release of the Access Hollywood tape has done its damage?
Trump's Razor might suggest its because it just occurred to him to say this and he doesn't care that its just leaving the public's immediate memory.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump's Razor might suggest its because it just occurred to him to say this and he doesn't care that its just leaving the public's immediate memory.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Why this now, weeks after the fallout from the release of the Access Hollywood tape has done its damage?
Rational(ish) answers:
. To distract people from forthcoming leaks.
. To discourage other people from leaking.
Stupid answer:
. Because Trump is a petty, bitter man, with a grudge, and doesn't know or care that this will hurt his campaign.
Guess which one I think is true?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
Rational(ish) answers:
. To distract people from forthcoming leaks.
. To discourage other people from leaking.
Stupid answer:
. Because Trump is a petty, bitter man, with a grudge, and doesn't know or care that this will hurt his campaign.
Guess which one I think is true?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's immoral to sign people up for a list unless they explicitly ask to be subscribed.
Eh, that's arguable. PP clearly had a vested interest in the success of local Dems.
Trump says it was 'absolutely' illegal for NBC to release 05 tape of hot mic comments. 'You'll see' post-elex if he takes legal action.
At what point after a microphone was strapped to you, with your full consent, did you expect privacy?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Eh, that's arguable. PP clearly had a vested interest in the success of local Dems.
Trump says it was 'absolutely' illegal for NBC to release 05 tape of hot mic comments. 'You'll see' post-elex if he takes legal action.
At what point after a microphone was strapped to you, with your full consent, did you expect privacy?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Vox interview with Stephanie Coontz (author of Marriage: A History): Why Women Are Still Voting For Trump, Despite His Misogyny
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 5:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 5:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
ABC Donald Trump Promises to Work On 'Our Ghettos'
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
"We’re gonna work on our ghettos and so the -- " Trump said, breaking off before going on to list the problems affecting the "inner cities."Somebody added a new word to their vocabulary. It's such a throw back to the 70's and everytime I hear "ghetto" (outside of a holocaust story) the Elvis song runs in my head.
"You take a look at what’s going on, you have pockets of areas of land where you have the inner cities, you have so many things, so many problems, so many horrible, horrible problems," he continued.
Trump, who frequently references inner cities when making his appeal to African-American voters, has garnered criticism for how he’s reached out to African-Americans, with whom his support remains low according to all major polls. He often makes his appeals in front of almost all-white crowds, harping on conditions in inner cities, neglecting to appeal to other African-Americans who don’t live in inner cities.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
NYT: Black Voters on Donald Trump: We’ve Heard It All Before
With his years of questioning President Obama’s birthplace, his insinuation of voting fraud in black neighborhoods and his refusal to absolve the Central Park Five, Mr. Trump has riled up and shocked voters not used to hearing black Americans’ sensibilities handled so dismissively on a public stage.posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
But when Ms. Powell and other black Americans were interviewed recently about Mr. Trump’s candidacy, shock was rarely a word that came to mind.
More often, they said, what they felt was a numbing familiarity: What the rest of America was now being exposed to are words and thoughts they have heard their whole lives.
“We talk a lot about Donald Trump because he is the person in front of us, but start looking at all the people who believe in these ideas and they are sitting in our classrooms, they are in our courtrooms, and they are pastors of our churches,” Ms. Powell, 30, said. “I feel like Donald Trump is not a big bad wolf. He’s existed for a long time.”
...
“There is a part of America that is like this,” she said. “It might be scary to some liberal whites, it might be scary to some blacks who always feel like we knew it was happening but we didn’t really want it. But it’s not scary to me. I see it all the time.”
Not election per se, but political divide/unrest related:
Well, shit, I guess we're going to need a new Oregon Standoff thread. A jury just found all the defendants not guilty of federal conspiracy and gun charges. Bundy was held to be extradited for his trial in Nevada. Bundy's lawyer protested the extradition and he was just tased in court and arrested.
posted by bluecore at 5:09 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, shit, I guess we're going to need a new Oregon Standoff thread. A jury just found all the defendants not guilty of federal conspiracy and gun charges. Bundy was held to be extradited for his trial in Nevada. Bundy's lawyer protested the extradition and he was just tased in court and arrested.
posted by bluecore at 5:09 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's such a throw back to the 70's and everytime I hear "ghetto" (outside of a holocaust story) the Elvis song runs in my head.
Just autocorrect tourban areas inner cities. He's just showing his age, is all.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just autocorrect to
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why this now, weeks after the fallout from the release of the Access Hollywood tape has done its damage? Possibly they know another incriminating tape is ready to surface and are talking about lawyering up to try to intimidate potential leakers? *crosses fingers*
There has been ongoing chatter of what a complete and total douchbag Donnie was on The Apprentice set, so the probability that there's more douchebag statements on tape approaches 1. Which, you know, might come out as part of discovery in the former apprentice contestant(s) lawsuit(s) anyway.
posted by mikelieman at 5:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
There has been ongoing chatter of what a complete and total douchbag Donnie was on The Apprentice set, so the probability that there's more douchebag statements on tape approaches 1. Which, you know, might come out as part of discovery in the former apprentice contestant(s) lawsuit(s) anyway.
posted by mikelieman at 5:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Elvis Presley, "In the Ghetto"
El Vez, "En el Barrio"
posted by kirkaracha at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
El Vez, "En el Barrio"
posted by kirkaracha at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
"You take a look at what’s going on, you have pockets of areas of land where you have the inner cities, you have so many things, so many problems, so many horrible, horrible problems"
This quote really makes it seem that Trump's idea of the problems plaguing our inner cities is that all these otherwise primo parcels are blighted by the presence of unsavory people.
posted by contraption at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
This quote really makes it seem that Trump's idea of the problems plaguing our inner cities is that all these otherwise primo parcels are blighted by the presence of unsavory people.
posted by contraption at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Daily Show - Donald Trump: Libel Bully
Donald Trump lives the joke we're trying to create.posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oops.
Trump Son: Dad 'Started the Conversation' About Obama Birthplace
"Donald Trump accused Hillary Clinton of starting the birther controversy but Trump's own son praised his dad for "starting the conversation" about where Barack Obama was born.
Eric Trump's comments came during a series of previously unpublished interviews from 2014, in which he and his older brother, Donald Jr., compared him to Winston Churchill, bragged that he was paid $2 million to have dinner with the mother of a construction contractor, and insisted there were "hundreds" of billionaires who would "take a bullet" for the Republican presidential candidate."
posted by chris24 at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Trump Son: Dad 'Started the Conversation' About Obama Birthplace
"Donald Trump accused Hillary Clinton of starting the birther controversy but Trump's own son praised his dad for "starting the conversation" about where Barack Obama was born.
Eric Trump's comments came during a series of previously unpublished interviews from 2014, in which he and his older brother, Donald Jr., compared him to Winston Churchill, bragged that he was paid $2 million to have dinner with the mother of a construction contractor, and insisted there were "hundreds" of billionaires who would "take a bullet" for the Republican presidential candidate."
posted by chris24 at 5:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
It's not like a wheelbarrow labeled "fraudulent votes!" will get wheeled out of the place or they'd be able to recognize someone who was voting for their dead grandma.
I think they actually do think election rigging would be that obvious - they think they're gonna see someone handed two or three ballots at a time, they're gonna see someone walk out after voting and walk right back in again and claim to be someone else, or drive a short way to a different polling location, or they're gonna wander around back and find the ballot boxes open and a bunch of poll workers throwing the "R" ballots in the dumpster.
But while election fraud in the past was sometimes fairly blatant (Google "Chicago vote fraud" for some examples as recent as the early '80's), at the very least the fraudsters from history had the common damn sense to go in a locked back room to destroy ballots or fake the totals, and things like paying people to vote a certain way, or paying non-voters to claim the identity of deceased former voters (2 big ways to accomplish voting fraud) - those kind of outrageous vote frauds aren't gonna be caught by some dudes standing around the polls on election day.
So it's the Conservative Reality Gap again. The world doesn't work the way they think it does, and they're not curious or smart enough to figure out how it does work.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think they actually do think election rigging would be that obvious - they think they're gonna see someone handed two or three ballots at a time, they're gonna see someone walk out after voting and walk right back in again and claim to be someone else, or drive a short way to a different polling location, or they're gonna wander around back and find the ballot boxes open and a bunch of poll workers throwing the "R" ballots in the dumpster.
But while election fraud in the past was sometimes fairly blatant (Google "Chicago vote fraud" for some examples as recent as the early '80's), at the very least the fraudsters from history had the common damn sense to go in a locked back room to destroy ballots or fake the totals, and things like paying people to vote a certain way, or paying non-voters to claim the identity of deceased former voters (2 big ways to accomplish voting fraud) - those kind of outrageous vote frauds aren't gonna be caught by some dudes standing around the polls on election day.
So it's the Conservative Reality Gap again. The world doesn't work the way they think it does, and they're not curious or smart enough to figure out how it does work.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I mean, isn't it a known thing that the things that are election hijinks are not typically oriented on the votes coming in, but on the votes that are not counted once they do? Thrown-away or destroyed ballot boxes from bad-party precincts, that kind of thing.
posted by rhizome at 5:27 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by rhizome at 5:27 PM on October 27, 2016
Some good Yuengling substitutes listed here. I'd already relegated "Vitamin Y" to the status of occasional college nostalgia beer, so it won't be all that hard to boycott.
Thanks for that. Ill admit that Yeungling has been my go-to cheap beer since I moved to DC a few years ago. Back to drinking my hometown Boulevard.
posted by photo guy at 5:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thanks for that. Ill admit that Yeungling has been my go-to cheap beer since I moved to DC a few years ago. Back to drinking my hometown Boulevard.
posted by photo guy at 5:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Honestly, I think Schumer made the right call. For all that there's been some tightening, Murphy has never led in the polls there and it's an expensive longshot compared to the five or six neck-and-neck races that could do a lot more with the money.
So, this is frustrating to me. There's a lot of "duh, Florida" snark thrown around on this site and I mostly just grit my teeth and move on. Now, Florida has a Dem candidate that isn't super great, but at least HE'S RUNNING and it's a closer race than I've seen in a long time. I was pissed when the DSCC pulled their funding, because damn-I'm donating to HRC, Murphy and a local school board candidate and I'm tapped out financially. I've said it here before, there are Progressives in Florida and we canvass, phone bank, send cash and talk incessantly about issues and candidates and we could use a little support here, rather than people in other areas of the country sniffily looking down their noses at us.
Being a Democrat here isn't a picnic and having the party turn their backs on us doesn't help when we're trying to persuade qualified people to run for office against a well funded, well supported Republican party.
posted by hollygoheavy at 5:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [38 favorites]
So, this is frustrating to me. There's a lot of "duh, Florida" snark thrown around on this site and I mostly just grit my teeth and move on. Now, Florida has a Dem candidate that isn't super great, but at least HE'S RUNNING and it's a closer race than I've seen in a long time. I was pissed when the DSCC pulled their funding, because damn-I'm donating to HRC, Murphy and a local school board candidate and I'm tapped out financially. I've said it here before, there are Progressives in Florida and we canvass, phone bank, send cash and talk incessantly about issues and candidates and we could use a little support here, rather than people in other areas of the country sniffily looking down their noses at us.
Being a Democrat here isn't a picnic and having the party turn their backs on us doesn't help when we're trying to persuade qualified people to run for office against a well funded, well supported Republican party.
posted by hollygoheavy at 5:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [38 favorites]
I mean, isn't it a known thing that the things that are election hijinks are not typically oriented on the votes coming in, but on the votes that are not counted once they do? Thrown-away or destroyed ballot boxes from bad-party precincts, that kind of thing.
Yeah, we know that, but I don't think the "poll guards" do, or they think this happens in such an obvious fashion that they can just, like, wander around to the dumpster behind the polling location and find a bunch of people shredding ballots.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:37 PM on October 27, 2016
Yeah, we know that, but I don't think the "poll guards" do, or they think this happens in such an obvious fashion that they can just, like, wander around to the dumpster behind the polling location and find a bunch of people shredding ballots.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:37 PM on October 27, 2016
Plane carrying Pence skids off runway
Thanks Obama!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thanks Obama!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hey guys I got an Evan McMullin 2-page handout personally delivered to my door today! (I live in Southern Utah)
I feel like he's personally recognizing me for my efforts* on his behalf!
I was so excited I shouted "EGG!" and my wife and son now think I'm insane.
* Well, jokes and Arrested Development references, but Egg takes what he can get.
posted by mmoncur at 5:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
I feel like he's personally recognizing me for my efforts* on his behalf!
I was so excited I shouted "EGG!" and my wife and son now think I'm insane.
* Well, jokes and Arrested Development references, but Egg takes what he can get.
posted by mmoncur at 5:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Eric Trump's comments came during a series of previously unpublished interviews from 2014, in which he and his older brother, Donald Jr., compared him to Winston Churchill, bragged that he was paid $2 million to have dinner with the mother of a construction contractor, and insisted there were "hundreds" of billionaires who would "take a bullet" for the Republican presidential candidate."
Jesus. He is either deluded as fuck or he is the lyingest liar who ever lied. I don't think there are hundreds of Billionaires who would even have lunch with Trump much less take a bullet for him. Maybe he could entice a billionaire or two to play a round of golf with him, but I have my doubts. Especially since he is a well known golf cheat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Jesus. He is either deluded as fuck or he is the lyingest liar who ever lied. I don't think there are hundreds of Billionaires who would even have lunch with Trump much less take a bullet for him. Maybe he could entice a billionaire or two to play a round of golf with him, but I have my doubts. Especially since he is a well known golf cheat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Home with sick kid so decided to rewatch Mary Poppins. Have to say, the "Sister Suffragette" song has a little extra zing! this year.
We're clearly soldiers in petticoats
And dauntless crusaders for women's votes
Though we adore men
individually
We agree
that as a group
they're rather stupid
Cast off the shackles of yesterday
Shoulder to shoulder into the fray
Our daughters' daughters will adore us
And they'll sing in grateful chorus
Well done! Sister Suffragette!
From Kensington to Billingsgate one hears the restless cries
From every corner of the land womankind arise
Political equality
And equal rights with men
Take heart, for Mrs. Pankhurst has been clapped in irons again
No more the meek and mild subservient we
We're fighting for our rights militantly
Never you fear
So cast off the shackles of yesterday
Shoulder to shoulder into the fray
Our daughters' daughters will adore us
And they'll sing in grateful chorus
Well done!
Well done!
Well done! Sister Suffragette!
posted by emjaybee at 5:50 PM on October 27, 2016 [29 favorites]
We're clearly soldiers in petticoats
And dauntless crusaders for women's votes
Though we adore men
individually
We agree
that as a group
they're rather stupid
Cast off the shackles of yesterday
Shoulder to shoulder into the fray
Our daughters' daughters will adore us
And they'll sing in grateful chorus
Well done! Sister Suffragette!
From Kensington to Billingsgate one hears the restless cries
From every corner of the land womankind arise
Political equality
And equal rights with men
Take heart, for Mrs. Pankhurst has been clapped in irons again
No more the meek and mild subservient we
We're fighting for our rights militantly
Never you fear
So cast off the shackles of yesterday
Shoulder to shoulder into the fray
Our daughters' daughters will adore us
And they'll sing in grateful chorus
Well done!
Well done!
Well done! Sister Suffragette!
posted by emjaybee at 5:50 PM on October 27, 2016 [29 favorites]
cybercoitus interruptus that is one of the best things Ive read this election
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:50 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:50 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
LOL, so not only did Trump recently say he was stopping raising money for the RNC, he actually hasn't done so for all of October.
Trump raised $0 for RNC in October
"Donald Trump hasn't raised any money for other Republicans this month, despite his campaign's reliance on the party to supply his ground game.
The Republican National Committee's latest report to the Federal Election Commission didn't show any transfers from Trump Victory, its joint fundraising arrangement with the Trump campaign. The GOP nominee isn't planning any more high-dollar events that raise money for the party, The Washington Post has reported."
posted by chris24 at 5:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
Trump raised $0 for RNC in October
"Donald Trump hasn't raised any money for other Republicans this month, despite his campaign's reliance on the party to supply his ground game.
The Republican National Committee's latest report to the Federal Election Commission didn't show any transfers from Trump Victory, its joint fundraising arrangement with the Trump campaign. The GOP nominee isn't planning any more high-dollar events that raise money for the party, The Washington Post has reported."
posted by chris24 at 5:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
There's a lot of "duh, Florida" snark thrown around on this site and I mostly just grit my teeth and move on.If it makes you feel better, I plan on placing a call to express my displeasure to Schumer's staff tomorrow. I'm a constituent. My parents already voted for Murphy as first-time FL voters and thank you for your efforts on his behalf.
posted by xyzzy at 5:54 PM on October 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Plane carrying Pence skids off runway
Needs more deregulation!
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Needs more deregulation!
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
MSNBC briefly cut to an Il Douche rally thinking he might say something about Pence's plane. Instead we got to listen to his canned spiel about how many people are there. He says there are 13,000 people at the rally and 7,000 more waiting to get in.
The venue seats 5,000.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
The venue seats 5,000.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:58 PM on October 27, 2016 [18 favorites]
Counting is rigged!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 6:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 6:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
It appears that Pence's plane came to a safe stop in the engineered materials arrestor system (EMAS) safety area at the end of the runway, a safety system installed to help compensate for LGA's shorter runways. It's also the kind of project that has been held up by Congress playing games with the FAA's funding, from the 2011 partial shutdown to budget cuts to a refusal to pass anything but short-term authorizations to stupid accounting problems that cause jet fuel taxes to be spent on highway construction instead of airport improvements to increasingly fanciful proposals to privatize much of the agency.
Trump, of course, calls LGA a third-world airport, yet it has a modern safety feature that could have well just saved a good number of lives.
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [51 favorites]
Trump, of course, calls LGA a third-world airport, yet it has a modern safety feature that could have well just saved a good number of lives.
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [51 favorites]
@alivitali "I don’t wanna brag but I won the debates," Trump brags.
Wow. A non-brag that's actually a brag AND a lie. Seems like we need a word for that. A donj or a dontrum. "I wasn't going to mention it but I graduated top of my class at Harvard." "That guy is such a donjer."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow. A non-brag that's actually a brag AND a lie. Seems like we need a word for that. A donj or a dontrum. "I wasn't going to mention it but I graduated top of my class at Harvard." "That guy is such a donjer."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm glad all the Pence plane people are OK. Wanna start a pool on how long it takes for Trump to start claiming it was a plot?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:05 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:05 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
"I don't wanna brag but" is right up there with "I'm not a racist but" on the list of Things that Mean the Opposite of What They Say.
posted by mmoncur at 6:06 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trumplebrag
posted by tonycpsu at 6:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [59 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [59 favorites]
Politico has the plane story.
Trumplebrag
Oh nice.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on October 27, 2016
Nobody has been hurt, we’re going through all our standard operating procedures and cooperating with all authorities,” said Nick Loudon, executive director of special projects at Eastern Airlines. “We don’t want to make any assumption [about] what happened yet.”Yeeesh. Who wants to get back on the plane.
“A new plane is headed to New York and the governor will be out on the trail tomorrow,” Lotter said. Pence has stops Friday planned in Pennsylvania and North Carolina.
Trumplebrag
Oh nice.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on October 27, 2016
OH man, it's even worse than I thought. The whole quote is : "I don't want to brag, but I won the debates. I'm not going to brag. It wasn't hard."
That's quite the patter: I'm don't want to brag but....followed up with I'm not going to brag.
I don't want to brag but I'm the greatest MeFier that ever lived. I'm not going to brag. I had no competition.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
That's quite the patter: I'm don't want to brag but....followed up with I'm not going to brag.
I don't want to brag but I'm the greatest MeFier that ever lived. I'm not going to brag. I had no competition.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
I don't want to brag but I'm the greatest MeFier that ever lived. I'm not going to brag. I had no competition.
It's MeFite.
How you pronounce that is your next hurdle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
It's MeFite.
How you pronounce that is your next hurdle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:19 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
Christian Broadcast Network Brody File Exclusive: Donald Trump's Message for Skeptical Evangelical Voters
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Secondly, when you are authentic and real like Trump, it allows you to do NINE interviews in front of our predominately Christian audience even though you've had some baggage in your past. It's extremely refreshing, unlike past politicians who run away from Christian TV for fear of saying something that might get them into trouble.Why would he want to know the questions ahead of time-- it's not like he would bother studying anything or memorizing anything or formulating any thoughts ahead of time.
Thirdly it should also be noted that while politicians typically want to know the interview subject matters ahead of time especially when talking to a Christian audience, that's not been the case with Trump. He just speaks from the heart and lets it rip the way he sees it. Refreshing instead of staged like politicians.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Q: How many Corinthians does it take for Trump to alienate an evangelical audience?
A: Two.
posted by uosuaq at 6:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
A: Two.
posted by uosuaq at 6:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [21 favorites]
Even Trump’s Kids Haven’t Donated to His Campaign
Yes. That's the joke.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
With less than two weeks until the election, Donald Trump has amassed an impressive army of small donors, fueling his bid with individual contributions of $200 or less. But noticeably absent from the list of contributors is basically anyone with the last name Trump, many of the surrogates who represent The Donald on national television, and members of his own campaign staff.It's MeFite.
According to a review of Federal Election Commission filings by The Daily Beast, only one of Trump’s children showed up on a list of itemized receipts for the campaign: Eric. On Sept. 7, 2016, Eric Trump appears to have contributed $376.20 listed only as “meeting expense: meals.” It appears that money was later refunded. Eric Trump did not respond to a request for comment about the transaction.
Ivanka Trump, who previously contributed to Hillary Clinton and John McCain in 2007 and 2008 respectively, does not appear to have given to her father.
Yes. That's the joke.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump has refused interviews because he didn't get the questions ahead of time. This was reported in the last week.
The big lie continues.
posted by Yowser at 6:24 PM on October 27, 2016
The big lie continues.
posted by Yowser at 6:24 PM on October 27, 2016
Maddow's story about Trump bragging that he was the best baseball player in New York is gold.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:25 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:25 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
And what if a thirteen-year-old is sure—as sure as you were at sixteen—that they deserve to vote in national elections; do you say "Sure, then let 'em vote"?
Yep. But then I recognize that I am a radical outlyer in my opinions and practices about young people.
posted by Orlop at 6:25 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yep. But then I recognize that I am a radical outlyer in my opinions and practices about young people.
posted by Orlop at 6:25 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maddow's story about Trump bragging that he was the best baseball player in New York is gold.
He wanted to into theater. In some bizarro alternate reality there's a nice Donald with a goatee who's doing summerstock.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
He wanted to into theater. In some bizarro alternate reality there's a nice Donald with a goatee who's doing summerstock.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
and Donald Trump is a radical out liar.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:27 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:27 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
In some bizarro alternate reality there's a nice Donald with a goatee who's doing summerstock.
So what you're saying is that we got the evil doppelganger.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
So what you're saying is that we got the evil doppelganger.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
I think the Pence plane and the baseball stuff are non-stories. The real story of the evening is that a militia armed with semi-automatic rifles took over a Federal facility in Oregon, and a jury just acquitted them of all charges. Two weeks before our election and the message to these groups is that armed rebellion is okay if you're angry enough and you have enough guns. Oh, and you're white.
posted by bluecore at 6:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [74 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 6:30 PM on October 27, 2016 [74 favorites]
HuffPo Barbara Corcoran Says Donald Trump Talked About Her Breast Size While She Was Pregnant
Businesswoman Barbara Corcoran, who serves as a judge on the ABC show “Shark Tank,” said Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump once talked about the size of her breasts during a business meeting.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Corcoran, discussing the multiple accusations of sexual assault against Trump with CNN’s Erin Burnett on Thursday, said it’s “preposterous that he’s claiming he’s done nothing like that,” and shared how she was once “shocked” by Trump’s actions toward her during a business meeting between the two.
“I was pregnant with my first child at the time. So was his second wife [Marla Maples],” Corcoran said. “And he compared my breast size to his wife by putting his hands in the air, telling me how large they are.
while politicians typically want to know the interview subject matters ahead of time especially when talking to a Christian audience, that's not been the case with Trump
Leaked Script Shows What Advisers Want Donald Trump to Say at Black Church
posted by kirkaracha at 6:31 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Eh, it just makes you more popular with the kids.
posted by Rykey at 6:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 6:35 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not to get too deraily, my experience with the actblue opt out is that it's like herding cats. I have filled out their damn form at least half a dozen times now. Today I put their domain in the "always toss these" spam kill file at my host.
ACLU and Planned Parenthood are tied for physical mail, it's actually fairly outrageous how much I get from both. Like I said, I hate seeing the waste...how much does it cost Planned Parenthood to send me literally 30 - 50 pieces of mail per year?
Anyway, derail done. As I said, I admire the groups and their aims, I hate their "outreach" or whatever buzzword is used for the begging, and I hate seeing the money given by folks wasted on this crap.
posted by maxwelton at 6:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
ACLU and Planned Parenthood are tied for physical mail, it's actually fairly outrageous how much I get from both. Like I said, I hate seeing the waste...how much does it cost Planned Parenthood to send me literally 30 - 50 pieces of mail per year?
Anyway, derail done. As I said, I admire the groups and their aims, I hate their "outreach" or whatever buzzword is used for the begging, and I hate seeing the money given by folks wasted on this crap.
posted by maxwelton at 6:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Leaked Script Shows What Advisers Want Donald Trump to Say at Black Church
"A series of slights, including his questioning of President Obama’s birth certificate, has not endeared him to black voters."
How on earth is a 3+ year campaign a "slight"!?
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 6:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
"A series of slights, including his questioning of President Obama’s birth certificate, has not endeared him to black voters."
How on earth is a 3+ year campaign a "slight"!?
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 6:45 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
ACLU and Planned Parenthood are tied for physical mail, it's actually fairly outrageous how much I get from both.
Maybe that's a glitch on your end? I'm a member of both and only get emails from them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:47 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe that's a glitch on your end? I'm a member of both and only get emails from them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:47 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
How does Trump really think his campaign is going?
posted by zachlipton at 6:59 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump gave just $31,000 to his own campaign during first three weeks of October.--@nickconfessore
All in-kind, no cash.
Party's over.
posted by zachlipton at 6:59 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Like I said, I hate seeing the waste...how much does it cost Planned Parenthood to send me literally 30 - 50 pieces of mail per year?
If they've verified the addresses on their lists as deliverable... basically nothing.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:00 PM on October 27, 2016
If they've verified the addresses on their lists as deliverable... basically nothing.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:00 PM on October 27, 2016
Probably partially driven by the state level orgs - I get a TON of actual mail from ACLU of Washington, not really anything national.
I have the same gripes as maxwelton re: Act Blue, although I think it's more that my address was signed up for "similar causes". Whatever thing he signed up for that put him on the immutable email list of people who should be flooded with several messages daily, I ended up on as well. I've unsubscribed (like the real unsubscribe) several times from some of these, and they just keep popping back up. The clickbaity headlines are really something else when you see so many of them per day, apparently the entire broad spectrum of progressive organizations and PACs is going to burst into flames if I don't contribute $1 RIGHT NOW to all of them - probably simultaneously.
posted by MysticMCJ at 7:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have the same gripes as maxwelton re: Act Blue, although I think it's more that my address was signed up for "similar causes". Whatever thing he signed up for that put him on the immutable email list of people who should be flooded with several messages daily, I ended up on as well. I've unsubscribed (like the real unsubscribe) several times from some of these, and they just keep popping back up. The clickbaity headlines are really something else when you see so many of them per day, apparently the entire broad spectrum of progressive organizations and PACs is going to burst into flames if I don't contribute $1 RIGHT NOW to all of them - probably simultaneously.
posted by MysticMCJ at 7:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's immoral to sign people up for a list unless they explicitly ask to be subscribed.
This sounds just like the FB friend I have complaining about HOW DARE the Democrats call her to ask for her support and now she's not going to vote for Hillary because they dared call.
If Texas does become a swing state I am NOT looking forward to all the complaining about campaign attention that people have never dealt with before now.
posted by threeturtles at 7:03 PM on October 27, 2016
This sounds just like the FB friend I have complaining about HOW DARE the Democrats call her to ask for her support and now she's not going to vote for Hillary because they dared call.
If Texas does become a swing state I am NOT looking forward to all the complaining about campaign attention that people have never dealt with before now.
posted by threeturtles at 7:03 PM on October 27, 2016
Re: the $1 -- I've donated much more than that to several orgs over the past few months, yet this seems to be what they are asking for now - I guess they've just been aggressively bidding down. It's a very strange technique.
posted by MysticMCJ at 7:05 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by MysticMCJ at 7:05 PM on October 27, 2016
jury found 7 occupiers not guilty of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge.
I'm not sure how else you would define what they were doing
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:06 PM on October 27, 2016
I'm not sure how else you would define what they were doing
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:06 PM on October 27, 2016
Canadian checking in. One thing I am going to miss when this is all over is the hourly news updates here on CBC. Any time they're reporting something Trump related there's this unstated dripping satirical edge. For example the latest one I just heard (paraphrased):
"Donald Trump was once again campaigning today, referencing wikileaks' Clinton email releases. Unfortunately, Mr. Trump seemed to have gained a bit of mis-information on the subject after reading about it in the mainstream media... " / cut to rally soundbite
posted by mannequito at 7:06 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Donald Trump was once again campaigning today, referencing wikileaks' Clinton email releases. Unfortunately, Mr. Trump seemed to have gained a bit of mis-information on the subject after reading about it in the mainstream media... " / cut to rally soundbite
posted by mannequito at 7:06 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Politico: Clinton eyes Biden for secretary of state
posted by acidic at 7:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [27 favorites]
Neither Clinton nor her aides have yet told Biden. According to the source, they’re strategizing about how to make the approach to the vice president, who almost ran against her in the Democratic primaries but has since been campaigning for her at a breakneck pace all over the country in these final months."oh i know we'll leak it to Politico and let America persuade him!" (but seriously this is great!)
"He'd be great, and they are spending a lot of time figuring out the best way to try to persuade him to do it if she wins,” said the source familiar with the transition planning.
posted by acidic at 7:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [27 favorites]
I was at the Winston-Salem Hillary/Michelle rally today. I'm pretty sure the crowd was over 10,000. I was in the cheap seats, so I could barely hear what was being said, but I was particularly impressed that Sec. Clinton introduced Michelle Obama as the main speaker. Trump is drawing crowds of 2,000 and bragging about it. Hillary Clinton is drawing crowds of 10,000 and not taking it for granted and asking supporters to knock doors and do calls. There's a lot to not like about this election, but there's a lot to love, too.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [34 favorites]
They were also found not guilty of possessing firearms on federal property despite being photographed with assault rifles in the occupied building, so the jury was not considering evidence. This was 100% political/racial.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [54 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [54 favorites]
WTF PORTLAND
Edit: I mean, the trial wasn't actually where the dateline says, was it?
posted by Slothrup at 7:12 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Edit: I mean, the trial wasn't actually where the dateline says, was it?
posted by Slothrup at 7:12 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
So Sen. Mark Kirk is debating Rep. Tammy Duckworth. And sunk to a new low. Here's the transcript and the video.
Duckworth starts off saying, "My family has served served this nation in uniform going back to the revolution. I am a daughter of the American Revolution. I've bled for this nation" and goes on to briefly discuss the costs of war, saying "it's families like mine that bleed first." Kirk responds, "I had forgotten your parents came all the way from Thailand to serve George Washington."
Rep. Duckworth is an active DAR member, and her family on her father's side traces their military service back to the Revolution (her father, in fact, was a US Marine). Her mother is Thai and of Chinese ancestry. And Duckworth, of course, served for 22 years, including that time when she lost her legs. None of these things are incompatible or worthy of snark unless you're a moron.
Kirk, meanwhile, has a history of misstating his military record when he's running for office.
There are no words.
(h/t: @BFriedmanDC)
posted by zachlipton at 7:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [92 favorites]
Duckworth starts off saying, "My family has served served this nation in uniform going back to the revolution. I am a daughter of the American Revolution. I've bled for this nation" and goes on to briefly discuss the costs of war, saying "it's families like mine that bleed first." Kirk responds, "I had forgotten your parents came all the way from Thailand to serve George Washington."
Rep. Duckworth is an active DAR member, and her family on her father's side traces their military service back to the Revolution (her father, in fact, was a US Marine). Her mother is Thai and of Chinese ancestry. And Duckworth, of course, served for 22 years, including that time when she lost her legs. None of these things are incompatible or worthy of snark unless you're a moron.
Kirk, meanwhile, has a history of misstating his military record when he's running for office.
There are no words.
(h/t: @BFriedmanDC)
posted by zachlipton at 7:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [92 favorites]
It's not bidding down, it's a proven 'sales' technique. If you ask for a dollar people are more likely to donate than if you ask for more or don't name an amount.
posted by bq at 7:15 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by bq at 7:15 PM on October 27, 2016
Pussy Riot has released an incredible, disturbing new Trump-themed song called Make America Great Again (trigger warning: sexual violence, branding, death). I only recommend watching it if you have a strong stomach and are feeling emotionally stable.
posted by stolyarova at 7:18 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 7:18 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump: 'We should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump'
So what's the chance that he just declares himself President no matter what happens and actually BELIEVE that he is. Not just whine and rant about rigging in order to save face but quite literally believe that he is the rightful president that is now in exile.
I'm thinking it's real possibility that he's gonna have some sort of real break with reality.
Minor possibility: He'll fly to Russia and ask for help as a President in exile (because why the hell not? Would it really be that much crazier then stuff he's already done and said?)
posted by Jalliah at 7:18 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Something's up over at Reddit. /r/all is showing only posts from The_Donald subreddit regardless of their score. 4chan's claimed credit. This might just be enough to get The_Donald banned or quarantined which would be an absolutely epic shitfest of hurt Trumpet fee-fees
posted by nathan_teske at 7:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 7:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
jury found 7 occupiers not guilty of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge.
I'm not sure how else you would define what they were doing
from reddit:
I'm not sure how else you would define what they were doing
from reddit:
I'm sure a lot of article skimmers here on Reddit will be screaming about this without much deep thought. And badmouthing the jurors who just gave up two months of their life to dedicate to this case.posted by sebastienbailard at 7:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
However, like a lot of jury verdicts, there's probably a lot beneath the shrieking headlines.
I've been following this case for a while. It interests me as an Oregonian. For those who want depth, OPB has an excellent podcast covering many aspects of the trial - both the courtroom and related topics. It's titled "This Land is Our Land".
I'm surprised, but not shocked by this verdict. Given the government's case, I think this was definitely within the realm of possibility.
I'm sure the jurors' reasoning will eventually come out, but there are some valid reasons why this might have happened:
1) The government elected to bring very narrow charges against everyone. The charge of criminal conspiracy was the main charge against the defendants.
They did NOT bring charges for many other things that would presumably be chargeable: destruction of federal property, destruction of monuments, trespassing, etc etc.
Presumably this was a strategic decision - prosecutors thought criminal conspiracy would be easier to prove, and other charges wouldn't.
However, it was never clear that "criminal conspiracy" applied to all the defendants in the case. Some of the defendants came after the occupation was underway, some were not in leadership roles, etc.
So much so that prosecutors were forced to drop defendants from the case right as the trial was about to get underway.
Prosecutors might have overplayed their hand by trying to lump everyone together with an 'easy' charge.
2) The "impeding government workers" part of the alleged criminal conspiracy didn't seem like it stuck well in court.
While there was certainly a conspiracy of some sort on the part of the Bundys, it's not clear that the conspiracy was targeted at preventing government workers from doing their jobs.
Testimony in the case seemed pretty inconclusive on that score. I wonder if the jury bought the "conspiracy" angle, but didn't buy the target.
It's a very divisive case, and while it's easy to blame the jury - it's also the job of prosecutors to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
As a sideline observer, I had doubts about the prosecutors' case. I'm not surprised the jury did as well.
These cases are always a coulda woulda shoulda when you lose. I'm sure prosecutors are now wondering if a different set of charges against a more targeted group of defendants would have stuck.
Jalliah, I will personally, my very own self, go to whatever airport in the world, and gas up his plane, and politely hand in the entire Trump clan; their lackeys, sycophants and deplorables, and I will strew the tarmac with the blossoms of a thousand thousand rosebushes as they leave, as long as they all promise to stay in Siberia forever.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
(FWIW there's a new thread for the Bundy stuff)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:23 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Looks like reddit's been fixed. It'll be interesting to see what the admins say -- either a hack or up vote bot got out of hand. Either way there's going to be a lot of popcorn involved.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:25 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by nathan_teske at 7:25 PM on October 27, 2016
Kirk responds, "I had forgotten your parents came all the way from Thailand to serve George Washington
I think this is going to earn him quite a spanking on Election Day.
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think this is going to earn him quite a spanking on Election Day.
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I feel like I need to constantly remind myself that, on top of everything else that's happened, two more women (Ninni Laaksonen and Barbara Corcoran) accused Trump of, respectively, groping and sexually harassing them today. They did a big thing coming forward and deserve at the very least a few more seconds of my thought today.
posted by zachlipton at 7:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:32 PM on October 27, 2016 [33 favorites]
Don't forget to check the clock on DJT's threats to sue.
posted by annsunny at 7:38 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by annsunny at 7:38 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you're a little tired of reading the regular news, try using this neato Ancillary Justice extension:
posted by jeather at 7:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Anaander Mianaai suggested canceling the election Thursday and granting himself the presidency.Election news and 538.
“What a difference. You know, what a difference this is,” Mianaai said during a rally in Toledo, Ohio, after comparing her tax plan with Anaander Mianaai’s.
“And just thinking to myself right now, we should just cancel the election and just give it to Mianaai, right? What are we even having it for? What are we having it for?” she asked. “Her policies are so bad. Boy, do we have a big difference.”
posted by jeather at 7:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't want to say "Trump needs new material", because we know what it might be, but I'm sort of bored by him now: pissing on legs and telling people it's raining, threatening to sue everybody, yeah yeah yeah. This schtick has got old. It reminds me of how the snake oilers made sure to put a distance between themselves and their marks when moving on to the next grift, but everybody's seen Sopan Deb screencap-quote the monorail pitch from North Haverbrook already.
posted by holgate at 7:46 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by holgate at 7:46 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Reddit: If Donald Trump's Hollywood star was one horcrux, what are Trump's other 6 horcruxes?
Best comment thread:
That painting of him, too.
"I've got it!" Obama gasped as he stumbled into the Oval Office. The polyjuice potion was already beginning to wear off; the hair on the sides of his head began to turn black again and roll up into tight curls, while the bald patch on top started to fill in. His pouty sneer turned back into his smile, and his skin turned from powdery orange back to mocha. In his hands he carried a large painting more than six feet tall depicting the Republican nominee.
"Thank god!" Elizabeth Warren said, rushing over and grabbing one side of the ornate, gaudy, golden frame to assist him. Together they set it against the wall of the Oval Office. "We were starting to get worried you wouldn't make it out of the Trump Foundation!"
And the harry potter/politics fanfic goes on like that for a while.
posted by fomhar at 7:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
Best comment thread:
That painting of him, too.
"I've got it!" Obama gasped as he stumbled into the Oval Office. The polyjuice potion was already beginning to wear off; the hair on the sides of his head began to turn black again and roll up into tight curls, while the bald patch on top started to fill in. His pouty sneer turned back into his smile, and his skin turned from powdery orange back to mocha. In his hands he carried a large painting more than six feet tall depicting the Republican nominee.
"Thank god!" Elizabeth Warren said, rushing over and grabbing one side of the ornate, gaudy, golden frame to assist him. Together they set it against the wall of the Oval Office. "We were starting to get worried you wouldn't make it out of the Trump Foundation!"
And the harry potter/politics fanfic goes on like that for a while.
posted by fomhar at 7:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [36 favorites]
Please look away unless you enjoy getting your hopes up based on word of mouth accounts:
twitter: Dave Sund @davesund At a fundraiser for Brad Ashford tonight, Xavier Becerra said that he saw a poll showing Clinton +1 in Texas.posted by sallybrown at 7:49 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also via twitter: Trump reports $16 million cash on hand. Clinton has $153 million.
posted by sallybrown at 7:51 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:51 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
If you're a little tired of reading the regular news, try using this neato Ancillary Justice extension:
So it's making the joke that Clinton and Trump are so similar that they might as well be two different aspects of the same person?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
So it's making the joke that Clinton and Trump are so similar that they might as well be two different aspects of the same person?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
(I just wish Clinton could carve out like 4 extra hours in her schedule and go give a speech in Austin or DFW with Wendy Davis, would that be so hard???? Yes, yes, I know it would...)
posted by sallybrown at 8:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 8:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
> jury found 7 occupiers not guilty of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge.
The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing.
Relevant piece from a couple of months ago: A Tale of Two Standoffs: The federal response to Lakota protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline couldn’t be more different than their reaction to this year’s Bundy occupation.
posted by homunculus at 8:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing.
Relevant piece from a couple of months ago: A Tale of Two Standoffs: The federal response to Lakota protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline couldn’t be more different than their reaction to this year’s Bundy occupation.
posted by homunculus at 8:07 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
Here's an article on Daily Kos about the record voter turnout in TX.
posted by annsunny at 8:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by annsunny at 8:08 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
On canvassing for Hillary in the city of brotherly love:
A few houses down, a middle-aged black woman with carefully penciled-in eyebrows and curly, graying hair answered the door. She looked at the Clinton flier and frowned. “I’m sorry, I’m voting for Trump,” she said, handing the flier back to Lewis.
Then she doubled over with laughter. “I lied! Gotcha!” She wiped her eyes, and leaned against the door frame. “No way in hell.”
posted by xyzzy at 8:12 PM on October 27, 2016 [109 favorites]
A few houses down, a middle-aged black woman with carefully penciled-in eyebrows and curly, graying hair answered the door. She looked at the Clinton flier and frowned. “I’m sorry, I’m voting for Trump,” she said, handing the flier back to Lewis.
Then she doubled over with laughter. “I lied! Gotcha!” She wiped her eyes, and leaned against the door frame. “No way in hell.”
posted by xyzzy at 8:12 PM on October 27, 2016 [109 favorites]
I just wish Clinton could carve out like 4 extra hours in her schedule and go give a speech in Austin or DFW
She's a frail old lady, she needs her nap time! Hell, she once had to take a couple days off the campaign trail after having pneumonia for a week and refusing to stop.
posted by uosuaq at 8:14 PM on October 27, 2016
She's a frail old lady, she needs her nap time! Hell, she once had to take a couple days off the campaign trail after having pneumonia for a week and refusing to stop.
posted by uosuaq at 8:14 PM on October 27, 2016
I only recommend watching it if you have a strong stomach and are feeling emotionally stable.I'm reading this thread how stable can I be at this point?!
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [17 favorites]
The Clinton campaign responds to the Standing Rock Sioux:
posted by xyzzy at 8:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
“We received a letter today from representatives of the tribes protesting the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline. From the beginning of this campaign, Secretary Clinton has been clear that she thinks all voices should be heard and all views considered in federal infrastructure projects. Now, all of the parties involved—including the federal government, the pipeline company and contractors, the state of North Dakota, and the tribes—need to find a path forward that serves the broadest public interest. As that happens, it's important that on the ground in North Dakota, everyone respects demonstrators' rights to protest peacefully, and workers' rights to do their jobs safely.”If you're a single issue voter and this is it, this response is not reassuring.
posted by xyzzy at 8:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
> MSNBC broke into their broadcast a few minutes ago to say that law enforcement has begun breaking up a DAPL protector camp in North Dakota.
Desecration, Mace and Police Snipers With Rifles at DAPL Front Lines
Police Confrontation With Pipeline Protesters in North Dakota Ends in Dozens of Arrests
This Natural Disaster Assistance Law Is Why Other States Are Policing Dakota Access Pipeline Protests
posted by homunculus at 8:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Desecration, Mace and Police Snipers With Rifles at DAPL Front Lines
Police Confrontation With Pipeline Protesters in North Dakota Ends in Dozens of Arrests
This Natural Disaster Assistance Law Is Why Other States Are Policing Dakota Access Pipeline Protests
posted by homunculus at 8:20 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Link to an article on the Clinton campaign statement from Indian Country Today Media Network.
What a tremendously mealy-mouthed, cowardly, and disappointing statement, if not a surprising one.
posted by sallybrown at 8:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [33 favorites]
What a tremendously mealy-mouthed, cowardly, and disappointing statement, if not a surprising one.
posted by sallybrown at 8:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [33 favorites]
Two bits from Trump's interview with EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network: Global Catholic Network).
First, he's finally directly asked if he says "bigly" or "big league." He doesn't quite understand the question, but eventually says it's "big league." This claim is unlikely to do much to dissuade the bigly truthers, however.
They also asked him, "What do you say to those who still have lingering concerns? Have you changed since those comments [the Access Hollywood tape] were made...a decade ago?" His short response uses the phrase "locker-room talk" three times, but it appears that the answer is no, he has not changed.
posted by zachlipton at 8:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
First, he's finally directly asked if he says "bigly" or "big league." He doesn't quite understand the question, but eventually says it's "big league." This claim is unlikely to do much to dissuade the bigly truthers, however.
They also asked him, "What do you say to those who still have lingering concerns? Have you changed since those comments [the Access Hollywood tape] were made...a decade ago?" His short response uses the phrase "locker-room talk" three times, but it appears that the answer is no, he has not changed.
posted by zachlipton at 8:22 PM on October 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Funny thing about Trump giving only $31,000 of in-kind donations and no cash to his campaign this month? He's been fundraising saying he's matching donations. In fact, it's still up on his site.
posted by chris24 at 8:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:29 PM on October 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
Yeah sallybrown, that statement is pathetic. It's actually worse than saying nothing, because it's so weak and insincere as to be insulting. It's transparent bullshit, signifying nothing except that Clinton either doesn't care enough to have a real opinion, or else she supports the pipeline and just lacks the courage to come right out and say it. Fucking worthless.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [22 favorites]
"So Sen. Mark Kirk is debating Rep. Tammy Duckworth. And sunk to a new low."
To be ever so slightly fair to Kirk, while he has always been moderately gaffe-prone, it's been a lot more intense and problematic since his stroke a couple years back. The stroke has been a real third rail in this campaign, since nobody wants to make unkind comments about a disability or suggest that stroke-sufferers can't recover full faculties, but OTOH Kirk has made a lot of really appalling comments and has seemed to leave a lot of tasks he used to complete to his staff. He's also seemed really tired during the campaign, and has struggled with certain campaign functions (public dinners, live debates) due to lingering effects of the stroke or lack of stamina from the same.
It's doubly complicated because Duckworth herself is missing three limbs and her last GOP opponent (in a House race) made a lot of hay about her disabilities and it was super-gross. Both campaigns have avoided talking about disabilities this Senate race. So Kirk's stroke (and Duckworth's injuries) are pretty sensitive topics in Illinois that press and voters try to talk very carefully about. But Kirk's major gaffes may be less to do with himself and more to do with, well, he isn't as healthy as he once was.
My family's known Kirk since before he entered electoral politics and I have a long-time dislike of him predating his GOP runs -- HOWEVER I think his behavior since his stroke is not particularly representative of him prior to the stroke -- and I also think that's why a lot of his colleagues on both sides of the aisle (including Obama) have avoided coming down hard on him about it. I don't like him, I've never voted for him, but I'd sort-of prefer people judge him on his behavior and positions prior to 2012.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:36 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
To be ever so slightly fair to Kirk, while he has always been moderately gaffe-prone, it's been a lot more intense and problematic since his stroke a couple years back. The stroke has been a real third rail in this campaign, since nobody wants to make unkind comments about a disability or suggest that stroke-sufferers can't recover full faculties, but OTOH Kirk has made a lot of really appalling comments and has seemed to leave a lot of tasks he used to complete to his staff. He's also seemed really tired during the campaign, and has struggled with certain campaign functions (public dinners, live debates) due to lingering effects of the stroke or lack of stamina from the same.
It's doubly complicated because Duckworth herself is missing three limbs and her last GOP opponent (in a House race) made a lot of hay about her disabilities and it was super-gross. Both campaigns have avoided talking about disabilities this Senate race. So Kirk's stroke (and Duckworth's injuries) are pretty sensitive topics in Illinois that press and voters try to talk very carefully about. But Kirk's major gaffes may be less to do with himself and more to do with, well, he isn't as healthy as he once was.
My family's known Kirk since before he entered electoral politics and I have a long-time dislike of him predating his GOP runs -- HOWEVER I think his behavior since his stroke is not particularly representative of him prior to the stroke -- and I also think that's why a lot of his colleagues on both sides of the aisle (including Obama) have avoided coming down hard on him about it. I don't like him, I've never voted for him, but I'd sort-of prefer people judge him on his behavior and positions prior to 2012.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:36 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
When people say "we don't want an establishment politician," slippery weasel-talk like that is exactly why.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:37 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'd sort-of prefer people judge him on his behavior and positions prior to 2012.
Eyebrows, it's a shame that he's unwell, but you really cannot have a representative who is so grossly offensive. It would be great if he stepped down of his own accord, but otherwise his present actions should absolutely count against him.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [52 favorites]
Eyebrows, it's a shame that he's unwell, but you really cannot have a representative who is so grossly offensive. It would be great if he stepped down of his own accord, but otherwise his present actions should absolutely count against him.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:39 PM on October 27, 2016 [52 favorites]
Eyebrows, the man is running for office in 2016 though. Whether the stroke has anything to do with it or not, this is who he is now. Don't judge him for having a stroke and maybe not fully recovering, judge him by his words and actions.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:40 PM on October 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Trump campaign with lots of sympathy for Kirk's offensive comment.
@KellyannePolls:
The same Mark Kirk that unendorsed his party's presidential nominee and called him out in paid ads? Gotcha. Good luck.
posted by chris24 at 8:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
@KellyannePolls:
The same Mark Kirk that unendorsed his party's presidential nominee and called him out in paid ads? Gotcha. Good luck.
posted by chris24 at 8:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, Kirk needs to be out of office (and totally based on his pre-2012 positions too!). But when we judge his legacy or whether he's a "bad person," I think we need to talk pre-2012. And when people outside Illinois see the 2016 election reported, they should understand the background that the Illinois media pussyfoots around because it's very awkward.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:43 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Politico: Clinton eyes Biden for secretary of state
The staff at the Onion is bouncing off the walls right now.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [50 favorites]
The staff at the Onion is bouncing off the walls right now.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [50 favorites]
you really cannot have a representative who is so grossly offensive.
Well, you can (in years' past, in a state ending in Carolina) but that's as maybe.
Kirk - Duckworth is a strange going-through-the-motions race. I wish Kirk and his advisors had chosen not to seek re-election, but perhaps it was one of those races where no GOP candidate wanted to push him out or compete against Duckworth, so this is how it ends, regrettably.
posted by holgate at 8:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, you can (in years' past, in a state ending in Carolina) but that's as maybe.
Kirk - Duckworth is a strange going-through-the-motions race. I wish Kirk and his advisors had chosen not to seek re-election, but perhaps it was one of those races where no GOP candidate wanted to push him out or compete against Duckworth, so this is how it ends, regrettably.
posted by holgate at 8:48 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
More than a third of the money Trump raised in the first three weeks of October came in a single day. Want to guess what day it was? Glad to know that sexual assault really gets people to open their hearts and wallets to you.
posted by sallybrown at 8:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 8:52 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
nthing the Why women are still voting for Trump, despite his misogyny article.
posted by Coventry at 9:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 9:01 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Jill Stein is running for President
So is, unbelievably, Donald Trump.
posted by juiceCake at 9:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
So is, unbelievably, Donald Trump.
posted by juiceCake at 9:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I get that it's awkward, but if you're running for public office and you say horrific shit, you shouldn't get a pass just because maybe you have some brain damage. It's inappropriate and unacceptable in a public servant, and that's where it ends for me. I'm not trying to pass judgement on his pre-stroke character; I just think it's totally irrelevant in a 2016 election, at least as compared to the character that his words attest to right now, in 2016.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:04 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fuck that non-statement concerning the pipeline. Seriously. It's terrible. Full stop.
My parents were *this* close to driving out there from Alabama to join in the protests and represent our tribe by standing with the folks on the ground. They'd maybe be out there right now if some health concerns didn't have them stuck caring for my grandmother. Hell, dad's pushing past 70 pretty good himself these days so it's not like a trip to camp out there and engage in activism is a cake walk for someone like him either.
As that happens, it's important that on the ground in North Dakota, everyone respects demonstrators' rights to protest peacefully, and workers' rights to do their jobs safely.
The fact that Hillary's campaign would even consider releasing such a nothing-burger, hedging their bets, 'only thing you'll find in the middle of the road is dead possums and a yellow stripe'-worthy, cringe filled statement is insulting to native peoples everywhere. "Worker's rights to do their job safely"... poppycock. This is so close to victim blaming that I don't even know where to begin.
If you're a single issue voter and this is it, this response is not reassuring.
Preach. The, all too familiar, taste of bitter ashes indeed.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [44 favorites]
My parents were *this* close to driving out there from Alabama to join in the protests and represent our tribe by standing with the folks on the ground. They'd maybe be out there right now if some health concerns didn't have them stuck caring for my grandmother. Hell, dad's pushing past 70 pretty good himself these days so it's not like a trip to camp out there and engage in activism is a cake walk for someone like him either.
As that happens, it's important that on the ground in North Dakota, everyone respects demonstrators' rights to protest peacefully, and workers' rights to do their jobs safely.
The fact that Hillary's campaign would even consider releasing such a nothing-burger, hedging their bets, 'only thing you'll find in the middle of the road is dead possums and a yellow stripe'-worthy, cringe filled statement is insulting to native peoples everywhere. "Worker's rights to do their job safely"... poppycock. This is so close to victim blaming that I don't even know where to begin.
If you're a single issue voter and this is it, this response is not reassuring.
Preach. The, all too familiar, taste of bitter ashes indeed.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [44 favorites]
nthing the Why women are still voting for Trump, despite his misogyny article.
Ehn. That's of a kind with the pieces Jamelle Bouie was talking about with "The most interesting thing I have witnessed this year is the open argument that Trump voters essentially lack agency."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:18 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Ehn. That's of a kind with the pieces Jamelle Bouie was talking about with "The most interesting thing I have witnessed this year is the open argument that Trump voters essentially lack agency."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:18 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Florida voters, map freaks, and nerdos: check out https://floridaturnout.com/ for a neato day-by-day animated map of voter turnout by party, starting with absentee ballots and going through today!
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:34 PM on October 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
I agree that the mealy-mouthed pipeline statement is not surprising. Consider that this is a campaign that workshopped a -H tweet on minimum wage protests through 12 drafts.
I am not necessarily offended by preternatural caution, but I wish Hillary had done with DAPL what she did with BLM: she met with the movement leaders on a few occasions and developed a policy position to present to them. I would rather have no statement at all than one that isn't particularly opinionated. If she wanted to kick the can down the road she could have dropped the ball back in Obama's court.
posted by xyzzy at 9:36 PM on October 27, 2016 [31 favorites]
I am not necessarily offended by preternatural caution, but I wish Hillary had done with DAPL what she did with BLM: she met with the movement leaders on a few occasions and developed a policy position to present to them. I would rather have no statement at all than one that isn't particularly opinionated. If she wanted to kick the can down the road she could have dropped the ball back in Obama's court.
posted by xyzzy at 9:36 PM on October 27, 2016 [31 favorites]
Well Kirk's comments were finally bad enough that local media is blowing up with outrage and with direct questions about his mental fitness, which is something I honestly didn't think we'd see in this race because media's been so deferential since he started polling to lose (trying to give him an honorable retirement, I guess, since nobody expects him to win).
Side note, Duckworth's last couple of male opponents in elections have inflated their own military credentials and complained that she takes "unfair advantage" of hers by, you know, having them. There's a whole PhD thesis in there for someone about misogyny, military service, Republican chickenhawks, and election campaigns, they literally cannot stand it that a left-wing woman of color is a war hero.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [65 favorites]
Side note, Duckworth's last couple of male opponents in elections have inflated their own military credentials and complained that she takes "unfair advantage" of hers by, you know, having them. There's a whole PhD thesis in there for someone about misogyny, military service, Republican chickenhawks, and election campaigns, they literally cannot stand it that a left-wing woman of color is a war hero.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:10 PM on October 27, 2016 [65 favorites]
Jesus. He is either deluded as fuck or he is the lyingest liar who ever lied. I don't think there are hundreds of Billionaires who would even have lunch with Trump much less take a bullet for him. Maybe he could entice a billionaire or two to play a round of golf with him, but I have my doubts. Especially since he is a well known golf cheat.Ahem... Is Donald Trump lying about having a three handicap?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:49 AM on October 28 [+] [!]
posted by michswiss at 10:16 PM on October 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ahem... Is Donald Trump lying about having a three handicap?
How dare you question our Dear Leader, who shot a 38-under, par-34 with five aces! The fables have been written! Stories told! Hallowed be thy name! Hail Trump, Bringer of Worlds! Breaker of Pars! Builder of Hotels! Defier of Polls! Hail, the CEO of Breitbart Television!, breaker of Joe Scarborough, Mika Kelly and Chuck Todd, and the President of these Unitied States!
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
How dare you question our Dear Leader, who shot a 38-under, par-34 with five aces! The fables have been written! Stories told! Hallowed be thy name! Hail Trump, Bringer of Worlds! Breaker of Pars! Builder of Hotels! Defier of Polls! Hail, the CEO of Breitbart Television!, breaker of Joe Scarborough, Mika Kelly and Chuck Todd, and the President of these Unitied States!
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:02 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ahem... Is Donald Trump lying about having a three handicap?
I did a little of my own searching and was able to find Trump's scores from the American Century Celebrity Golf Classic in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Assuming he's forced to be mostly honest with scoring because he's playing in front of crowds and cameras, he's not likely a plus-2.8 handicap as he claims.
That three round tournament is scored stableford and not stroke play, so it's hard to make direct comparisons about scores, but Trump finished, out of 80 players each year, in 56th, 42nd, and 62nd place. In 2005 he finished 25 strokes over par for three rounds and 30 strokes behind winner Billie Joe Tolliver (plus-1.5 handicap) and 2006 he finished 52 strokes over par for three rounds and 55 strokes behind winner Jack Wagner (plus-0.3).
So either he's lying or has had three consistently lousy years at this tournament. And I understand "finding" that ball you thought went into the swamp sitting with a perfect lay on solid ground every once and a while, but your handicap is a pretty dumb thing to lie about, but that's a whole different derail.
posted by peeedro at 11:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I did a little of my own searching and was able to find Trump's scores from the American Century Celebrity Golf Classic in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Assuming he's forced to be mostly honest with scoring because he's playing in front of crowds and cameras, he's not likely a plus-2.8 handicap as he claims.
That three round tournament is scored stableford and not stroke play, so it's hard to make direct comparisons about scores, but Trump finished, out of 80 players each year, in 56th, 42nd, and 62nd place. In 2005 he finished 25 strokes over par for three rounds and 30 strokes behind winner Billie Joe Tolliver (plus-1.5 handicap) and 2006 he finished 52 strokes over par for three rounds and 55 strokes behind winner Jack Wagner (plus-0.3).
So either he's lying or has had three consistently lousy years at this tournament. And I understand "finding" that ball you thought went into the swamp sitting with a perfect lay on solid ground every once and a while, but your handicap is a pretty dumb thing to lie about, but that's a whole different derail.
posted by peeedro at 11:13 PM on October 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I don't like him, I've never voted for him, but I'd sort-of prefer people judge him on his behavior and positions prior to 2012.
When 2011 Kirk time travels to 2016 to run for Senate I'd agree. Since it's actually 2016 Kirk running I don't see how that makes sense though. I'm really very sorry he suffered a stroke which has apparently affected his cognition in some way and no-one should have that happen. But ignoring it is foolhardy. Pre-2012 Mark Kirk no longer exists.
posted by Justinian at 11:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
When 2011 Kirk time travels to 2016 to run for Senate I'd agree. Since it's actually 2016 Kirk running I don't see how that makes sense though. I'm really very sorry he suffered a stroke which has apparently affected his cognition in some way and no-one should have that happen. But ignoring it is foolhardy. Pre-2012 Mark Kirk no longer exists.
posted by Justinian at 11:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [20 favorites]
The Kirk situation's messy. He's not old by politician standards (57, about ten years older than Duckworth) and he's a first-term senator, having won his seat with the assistance of the 2010 midterm sweep. So it's not like he's a Robert Byrd or Orrin Hatch with a kind of seniority bonus. What's going on there is the assumption that "in the Senate" equals "elder statesman" which is sometimes true but not granted by virtue of election, especially not to women.
I remember yelling walking directions from my car to Senator McCaskill and her aide in 2008 while thinking "she's one of 100 in a nation of 300 million..." and she's still heading in the wrong direction for the Obama campaign event I was also attending.
posted by holgate at 11:54 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
I remember yelling walking directions from my car to Senator McCaskill and her aide in 2008 while thinking "she's one of 100 in a nation of 300 million..." and she's still heading in the wrong direction for the Obama campaign event I was also attending.
posted by holgate at 11:54 PM on October 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Anyway, I get to be an actual poll worker in NYC for the generals. I'll be the person that stands all day long (6 am to 9 pm?) and makes sure that the paper ballots get scanned and go into a box so they could be hand-counted later. I think I might also get to give away stickers, which seems like a good get.
posted by lauranesson at 12:13 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 12:13 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm still grumbling with jealousy at everyone who gets stickers. It's not fair that my district considers stickers an illegal payment for voting.
posted by xyzzy at 12:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I had to give -them- a sticker with my vote, Xyzzy. Admittedly, that sticker was a stamp, since I'm in a vote-by-mail state.
posted by Archelaus at 12:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 12:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Our vote-by-mail return envelopes come with free postage. Much more convenient, but it does mean you miss out on picking a topically-appropriate stamp.
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Aside from the fact that Kirk's comment would have been unacceptable whatever the reason for it, a statement about it issued by the Kirk campaign, presumably written with calm consideration which cannot be attributed to a sudden outburst of any kind, did not include an apology.
So, you know, screw that guy.
posted by kyrademon at 2:17 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
So, you know, screw that guy.
posted by kyrademon at 2:17 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
Yeah, Clinton's pipeline statement is sort of indicative of how she seems to like to work. Her preference seems to be in trying to keep all options or perspectives on the table until she's forced to, or feels she has a set direction in which to, take action. It's not dissimilar to her handling of the BLM issue at the convention, where she brought up speakers for both the movement and some relatively sympathetic police officers.
On the one hand, it can be a good way to keep lines of communication open without closing off potential allies or paths to change, but on the other, it can alienate those allies that are more naturally inclined to side with the left by making it seem like she isn't standing for those principles, but looking instead to those who likely won't become allies for their input as well. It's a middle ground technique that can sometimes be effective in complex issues, but can be a real liability on issues that are really divisive, and are viewed as having a strong moral component from each side.
She should see this as a human rights issue, but is playing it as a policy one and that isn't going to sit well with a lot of people on the left. It may indeed be that she is leaning more towards a corporate position overall, or simply trying to avoid getting entangled in something out of her control until after the election and doesn't want to chance complicating any actions Obama might take by espousing a different position than his, even more so since he's out campaigning for her on a regular basis at the moment.
It's a disappointment, and may become an even bigger one if she does side with the pipeline, but right now I'm going to cautiously hope she'll solidify her stance against it if it's still an issue once she takes office. I don't like it being that way, but it seems like that's how she likes to work. I'll just hope the end actions are more a testament to her policy choices than any lead up statements at this point.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
On the one hand, it can be a good way to keep lines of communication open without closing off potential allies or paths to change, but on the other, it can alienate those allies that are more naturally inclined to side with the left by making it seem like she isn't standing for those principles, but looking instead to those who likely won't become allies for their input as well. It's a middle ground technique that can sometimes be effective in complex issues, but can be a real liability on issues that are really divisive, and are viewed as having a strong moral component from each side.
She should see this as a human rights issue, but is playing it as a policy one and that isn't going to sit well with a lot of people on the left. It may indeed be that she is leaning more towards a corporate position overall, or simply trying to avoid getting entangled in something out of her control until after the election and doesn't want to chance complicating any actions Obama might take by espousing a different position than his, even more so since he's out campaigning for her on a regular basis at the moment.
It's a disappointment, and may become an even bigger one if she does side with the pipeline, but right now I'm going to cautiously hope she'll solidify her stance against it if it's still an issue once she takes office. I don't like it being that way, but it seems like that's how she likes to work. I'll just hope the end actions are more a testament to her policy choices than any lead up statements at this point.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
Also it's nearly the end game for her campaign, and she may not want to fuck that up while doing the ethical thing with the pipeline. She may lose a newsday to it.
While if she does nothing about it that day, the same day can be profitably spent watching Trump shoot himself in the foot and/or yelling at a cloud.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
While if she does nothing about it that day, the same day can be profitably spent watching Trump shoot himself in the foot and/or yelling at a cloud.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
When Trump said this:
"Just thinking to myself right now, we should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump"
I like to think he's moved on to the "Bargaining" stage of dealing with a loss.
Denial: "We're winning, and we're gonna win bigly"
Anger: "It's rigged! The media is against me!"
Bargaining: "Hey, maybe we don't have to have a vote? Maybe I can just be the winner?"
I'm looking forward to watching him go through the "Depression" stage.
(Trump being who he is, there is no "Acceptance" stage.)
posted by mmoncur at 2:55 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
"Just thinking to myself right now, we should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump"
I like to think he's moved on to the "Bargaining" stage of dealing with a loss.
Denial: "We're winning, and we're gonna win bigly"
Anger: "It's rigged! The media is against me!"
Bargaining: "Hey, maybe we don't have to have a vote? Maybe I can just be the winner?"
I'm looking forward to watching him go through the "Depression" stage.
(Trump being who he is, there is no "Acceptance" stage.)
posted by mmoncur at 2:55 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
Facing potential loss, Trump expands the list of conspirators plotting against him
Paranoia is a classic way for a narcissistic personality to to survive a crushing failure. For people like Trump, deep inside the idea of a massive conspiracy against them is comforting: enraged as he may be, it doesn't threaten his boundless illusion of grandiosity, it actually bolsters it. I've long been expecting Trump to begin a rapidly accelerating slide down this rabbit hole once mere denial of reality doesn't quite cut it anymore. The (scary) question is how many people he will suck into his slipstream.
posted by sively at 3:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Paranoia is a classic way for a narcissistic personality to to survive a crushing failure. For people like Trump, deep inside the idea of a massive conspiracy against them is comforting: enraged as he may be, it doesn't threaten his boundless illusion of grandiosity, it actually bolsters it. I've long been expecting Trump to begin a rapidly accelerating slide down this rabbit hole once mere denial of reality doesn't quite cut it anymore. The (scary) question is how many people he will suck into his slipstream.
posted by sively at 3:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Eyebrows McGee: nobody wants to make unkind comments about a disability or suggest that stroke-sufferers can't recover full faculties
That's weird, because we all know that sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. One of my loved ones has had a stroke, and now can't run; it would not be unkind or unfair to state that for that reason, he's now not a good candidate to sign up for a marathon. It would be the simple truth.
Sometimes, things that happen to our bodies and minds have a lasting impact that means that we cannot do things that we could do before. I see no good reason to pretend that's not true.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:15 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's weird, because we all know that sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. One of my loved ones has had a stroke, and now can't run; it would not be unkind or unfair to state that for that reason, he's now not a good candidate to sign up for a marathon. It would be the simple truth.
Sometimes, things that happen to our bodies and minds have a lasting impact that means that we cannot do things that we could do before. I see no good reason to pretend that's not true.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:15 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have thoughts along similar lines, Too-Ticky, but from a pragmatic perspective I can't realistically see a way for the news agencies to go there without the blowback turning into a flaming shitnado of ghoulish controversy. There's not really a good way to go about publicly discussing whether or not someone has fully recovered—mentally—from a traumatic brain incident without it being super distasteful to a large portion of the public. I get what you mean re: people just sometimes not fully recovering and that's that, but it's a really sensitive, nuanced, personal topic and I don't know that the mainstream press is really equipped to take it on effectively. Someday that will hopefully be possible, but not yet.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:29 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:29 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
There's not really a good way to go about publicly discussing whether or not someone has fully recovered—mentally—from a traumatic brain incident without it being super distasteful to a large portion of the public.
This, amongst other reasons, is why it makes sense to judge him as a polititian based on what he does and says, like any other candidate.
posted by snofoam at 4:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
This, amongst other reasons, is why it makes sense to judge him as a polititian based on what he does and says, like any other candidate.
posted by snofoam at 4:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The, that is a great point and I agree. But I disagree with the notion that the best course of action is to judge people on their pre-injury actions and abilities. After all, what matters is their performance as it currently is, not as it once was or could be.
On preview: what snofoam said.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:38 AM on October 28, 2016
On preview: what snofoam said.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:38 AM on October 28, 2016
Mark Kirk has always been an asshole and it's weird to say that a stroke gives a seated politician free reign to be an asshole
posted by beerperson at 4:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 4:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
To be fair, beerperson, I don't think anyone said that. I went back and read Eyebrow's comments again, and found them more nuanced than I remembered them. I can recommend that course of action.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:54 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:54 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think it would be really ableist to say that Mark Kirk couldn't be a senator because he'd had a stroke, in the same way that it would be really ableist to say or imply that Tammy Duckworth was disqualified because of her disabilities. But I don't think it's ableist to judge someone on their debate performance, regardless of whether they have a disability. Mark Kirk said something really fucking racist about Tammy Duckworth, and I don't think we're required to ignore that and judge Kirk based on our subjective views about whether he would have said the same thing four years ago.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:15 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:15 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
Re: pipeline. My 13 year old wants to go to ND to stand with the Sioux. What can we do to help the protestors?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:20 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:20 AM on October 28, 2016
I'd already seen one of the Save The Day videos, and then yesterday I went and watched the rest -- I particularly liked the reminder in Jesse Williams's "You Say Vote" that there are people who really would prefer you not vote. And "The Youth" was clever in a way that took me a little while to get.
posted by brainwane at 5:28 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by brainwane at 5:28 AM on October 28, 2016
Well, SAS, have you considered actually going there? There are lots of kids up there in the camps, from what I hear. Maybe you've already considered it and decided that it's not an option for you and that's fine, but if not then I might at least give it a little bit of thought. If I had fewer entanglements and obligations right now, I'd be considering driving out there myself.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:32 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:32 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you haven't watched the Pussy Riot video linked upthread yet, I want to triple down on the trigger warnings for it. Even if you're in a stable place with no previous trauma and have a strong stomach, it is brutal and grueling to watch. Now I need a shower, a Xanax, and to call my mom. Or maybe a therapist. Or maybe the phone bank. Seriously. Trigger warning.
posted by instamatic at 5:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by instamatic at 5:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is not a comment on any one thing, but this is definitely the longest two weeks of my life.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 5:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [24 favorites]
Texas dipshit arrested for wearing "Deplorables" t-shirt at the polls.
They considered it "electioneering."
Personally, I think if the shirt (not shown in the news segment) just said "Basket of Deplorables" or whatever, but did not mention Trump, he should not have been arrested. But where I live, there are some very strict criteria for what constitutes electioneering. You basically have to have something that says "Vote For X." But I guess his local laws or Texas laws are different. Anyway, I will defend to the death this dumb peckerwood's right to wear his stupid shirt that marks him as someone to avoid ever talking to at the polls. Well, maybe not "to the death." It's a busy week. But I'll defend him here on MetaFilter, rightg now. And then never speak of him again.
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
They considered it "electioneering."
Personally, I think if the shirt (not shown in the news segment) just said "Basket of Deplorables" or whatever, but did not mention Trump, he should not have been arrested. But where I live, there are some very strict criteria for what constitutes electioneering. You basically have to have something that says "Vote For X." But I guess his local laws or Texas laws are different. Anyway, I will defend to the death this dumb peckerwood's right to wear his stupid shirt that marks him as someone to avoid ever talking to at the polls. Well, maybe not "to the death." It's a busy week. But I'll defend him here on MetaFilter, rightg now. And then never speak of him again.
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
This is not a comment on any one thing, but this is definitely the longest two weeks of my life.
I went to get my hair cut last night and my stylist asked how I was doing and without even thinking about it I said, "Just trying to survive until election day." She said, "For a little while it was fun, but this isn't fun any more D: "
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
CNN Donald Trump isn't opening his checkbook to save his campaign
If Donald Trump were to honor his pledge to spend $100 million of his own money on his campaign, he would have to invest and spend $44 million at breakneck speed.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
And even then, Republicans warn, it would not do much good.
Trump, the billionaire businessman whose outsider appeal was bolstered by his seeming ability and desire to self-fund his campaign, only gave $31,000 to his effort over the first three weeks of October. This after as recently as Wednesday the Republican presidential nominee insisted he will cross the $100 million threshold by the end of the election, something GOP allies have urged him to do for months to resuscitate his stumbling campaign and augment their capabilities on the air and the ground.
Now, though, it may be too late.
Joe Scarborough spent his morning making fun of Vox reading idiots who fear post-election day violence. All Trump supporters will accept the election results and Trump will give a gracious concession speech, according to Mika and Joe. So calm yourselves peeps; The Great Joe has spoken.
Also, Dave Axelrod has named Mike Pence "Trump's rationality translator." Teehee.
posted by xyzzy at 5:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, Dave Axelrod has named Mike Pence "Trump's rationality translator." Teehee.
posted by xyzzy at 5:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Heh. Graciousness is simply not a thing Trump or Trump supporters are capable of.
posted by Artw at 5:54 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Artw at 5:54 AM on October 28, 2016
Today is the 500th day of the Trump campaign.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
500 days of disbelief. What a shitty way to spend one's time.
posted by Namlit at 6:06 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 6:06 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
> Politico: Clinton eyes Biden for secretary of state
"President Hollande, we're not making progress on this trade deal. Is there anything I can do to sweeten it?"
"Non non non. It's unacceptable. Simply unacceptable."
"Now, I think we have something in this for you. How about we discuss this in a more amenable place. I've got the Corvette out front, we can get there in no time flat."
"Oh... with the... top down!?"
"You know it, bro. Hop in!"
posted by ardgedee at 6:11 AM on October 28, 2016 [32 favorites]
"President Hollande, we're not making progress on this trade deal. Is there anything I can do to sweeten it?"
"Non non non. It's unacceptable. Simply unacceptable."
"Now, I think we have something in this for you. How about we discuss this in a more amenable place. I've got the Corvette out front, we can get there in no time flat."
"Oh... with the... top down!?"
"You know it, bro. Hop in!"
posted by ardgedee at 6:11 AM on October 28, 2016 [32 favorites]
Re: Yuengling
Narragansett Beer proudly supports Cthulhu for President 2016
posted by farlukar at 6:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Narragansett Beer proudly supports Cthulhu for President 2016
posted by farlukar at 6:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
ardgedee, are you saying Biden should negotiate trade deals by driving Hollande up to Makeout Point and seducing him
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
I think I've read that fanfic.
posted by Salieri at 6:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Salieri at 6:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
I will not be judgy, showbiz_liz.
posted by ardgedee at 6:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 6:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Anyone heard of Brigade before? I just got an email from Egg asking me to endorse him on there, as it's "powering a new generation of civic engagement".
Their campaign has been pretty low key about fundraising via email, only a couple asks for cash, once for 25$ and one for 100$! since they only had 4000$ cash on hand and an offer of a chance to get a limited edition lapel pin, 1 of 500, over the last few weeks. Now an endorsement request. The amounts they're asking for are a bit much perhaps, not cool targeted stuff like HRC, but nothing too iffy either, with single time payment being the highlighted option and more long explanations than quick pitch hard sells.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:21 AM on October 28, 2016
Their campaign has been pretty low key about fundraising via email, only a couple asks for cash, once for 25$ and one for 100$! since they only had 4000$ cash on hand and an offer of a chance to get a limited edition lapel pin, 1 of 500, over the last few weeks. Now an endorsement request. The amounts they're asking for are a bit much perhaps, not cool targeted stuff like HRC, but nothing too iffy either, with single time payment being the highlighted option and more long explanations than quick pitch hard sells.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:21 AM on October 28, 2016
'Gansett is trash beer though, farlukar. I'm sorry, but it's as cheap as it is for a reason.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
gusottertrout, all I can say is that given the alt-right, MRA-associations I currently have with the term "brigade," and the way that the politics of bigotry and harassment have permeated this election cycle, that's a singularly unfortunate term for a political fundraising organization. I'd take a hard second look based on the name alone.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Who could replace Paul Ryan?
A jellyfish, I suppose.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
A jellyfish, I suppose.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
The fact that he's from NY and went to school in the Hudson Valley and cannot pronounce Ticonderoga is actually pretty shocking.
Like he would have ever made it to the Adirondacks, or his family would have gone to Fort Ticonderoga on vacation like us middle-class slobs. He only went as far north as NYMA in Cornwall because he got his spoiled ass thrown out of prep school.
posted by aught at 6:32 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Like he would have ever made it to the Adirondacks, or his family would have gone to Fort Ticonderoga on vacation like us middle-class slobs. He only went as far north as NYMA in Cornwall because he got his spoiled ass thrown out of prep school.
posted by aught at 6:32 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Who could replace Paul Ryan?
Nancy Pelosi
posted by ryanrs at 6:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [71 favorites]
Nancy Pelosi
posted by ryanrs at 6:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [71 favorites]
gusottertrout, all I can say is that given the alt-right, MRA-associations I currently have with the term "brigade," and the way that the politics of bigotry and harassment have permeated this election cycle, that's a singularly unfortunate term for a political fundraising organization. I'd take a hard second look based on the name alone.
Heh. No doubt. I'm more just curious than actively thinking about using it. I just hadn't heard of it before.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Heh. No doubt. I'm more just curious than actively thinking about using it. I just hadn't heard of it before.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I want to hear him say "Skaneatles." (Locals say "Skinny-atlas.")
Er... "Skaneateles." (No offense; and I'd also love to hear him try to say / spell Schenectady.)
posted by aught at 6:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Er... "Skaneateles." (No offense; and I'd also love to hear him try to say / spell Schenectady.)
posted by aught at 6:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump keeps slowly creeping up on 538. It probably doesn't mean much, but it's still depressing.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Seems that Clinton probably has 9 hours of Trump tapes from author Michael D'Antonio's interviews with him for his book Never Enough about Trump. How do we know? Wikileaks and a Podesta email. Considering the author contacted the campaign specifically to provide oppo, there's probably some bad stuff in them. I guess they haven't felt the need to pull it out yet.
@wikileaks
Hillary Clinton campaign may have had 9 hours of Tump Tapes since March 2016 when they were approached by author
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/34283#efmAPVAQiARAARGARJAR
posted by chris24 at 6:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
@wikileaks
Hillary Clinton campaign may have had 9 hours of Tump Tapes since March 2016 when they were approached by author
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/34283#efmAPVAQiARAARGARJAR
posted by chris24 at 6:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I only watch the HuffPo Pollster. It's relatively stable, which in turn has a stabilizing effect on my mood. If individual polls keep freaking you out, maybe try that for a while.
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump keeps slowly creeping up on 538. It probably doesn't mean much, but it's still depressing.
Nate Silver thinks it does mean something.
Urggrghggh fuck the next 11 days.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Nate Silver thinks it does mean something.
Urggrghggh fuck the next 11 days.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Code For America local civic tech groups have been called Brigades for a while and they are, as far as I've gathered, nonpartisan-leaning-left. I'm pretty sure they don't endorse candidates so they're not going to be involved in a McMullin-centric fundraising appeal, but I want to mention them in case anyone thinks that the name "Brigade" always portends awfulness.
posted by brainwane at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I thought the author then gave all those same tapes to NYT after not getting much traction with the Clinton campaign, so if there was something really bad in them, we'd know via NYT. I read their article about them and really the worst they could say is what we already know: Donald Trump is a sad, sick individual obsessed with personal status and petty vengeance. This is not new news.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
If someone wears a "Not today, Satan" shirt to my polling place, will that be considered electioneering? Asking for a friend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
Ah, Brigade turns out to be some sort of iPhone app for elections. It seems to be intended to get people from all parties to join so they can use the data as a sort of on-going poll regarding which candidates have the greatest involvement or some such.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:44 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by gusottertrout at 6:44 AM on October 28, 2016
This is not new news.
Ah sorry. Wikileaks just tweeted it last night. I was not aware the Times had these already.
posted by chris24 at 6:45 AM on October 28, 2016
Ah sorry. Wikileaks just tweeted it last night. I was not aware the Times had these already.
posted by chris24 at 6:45 AM on October 28, 2016
Greg Nog: Dammit, I knew I should've registered as the greater of two evils.
"Greg Nog for Greater Evil" sounds like a campaign slogan even the Quidnunc Kid could get behind.
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [24 favorites]
"Greg Nog for Greater Evil" sounds like a campaign slogan even the Quidnunc Kid could get behind.
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [24 favorites]
I was doing okay, even feeling confident for the past couple weeks. I knew, intellectually, that the polls would probably narrow closer to election day but I had completely underestimated how badly it would affect me.
I need this election to be over. I believe in the Dem's ability to GOTV. I believe that Latinx voters will come out in record numbers. I believe there might be another oppo drop in the coming week. And yet I am still not okay.
*finds a paper bag to breathe into*
posted by lydhre at 6:51 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I need this election to be over. I believe in the Dem's ability to GOTV. I believe that Latinx voters will come out in record numbers. I believe there might be another oppo drop in the coming week. And yet I am still not okay.
*finds a paper bag to breathe into*
posted by lydhre at 6:51 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I voted early yesterday here in MD. There was quite a line, probably the rush hour since people just got out of work, but I'm glad it's done and I don't have to deal with the craziness later.
I wish I could've worn this shirt, but I just got the email about it today! (Warning: A lot of stuff on that site is highly offensive to basically everyone)
posted by numaner at 6:52 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wish I could've worn this shirt, but I just got the email about it today! (Warning: A lot of stuff on that site is highly offensive to basically everyone)
posted by numaner at 6:52 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's the Times article from last week. From the article:
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:55 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mr. D’Antonio now disapproves of Mr. Trump’s candidacy and gave transcripts of the interviews to Hillary Clinton’s campaign this year. After a brief meeting with a few Clinton aides, he said, he never heard back from Mrs. Clinton’s staff.From what the article provides, I can see why they didn't really do anything with them. There's nothing like OMG THIS IS DAMNING EVERYONE WILL SEE NOW it's more just that if you already have a feeling that the man is a nutbar, there's plenty to back that up in there. But there's no smoking guns about breaking laws or eating babies or anything. Hard to make a 30 second Twitter ad out of "he felt jealous of his wife being a better skier than him."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:55 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Who could replace Paul Ryan?
A woodchipper with beautiful blue eyes you could get lost in?
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
A woodchipper with beautiful blue eyes you could get lost in?
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
MetaFilter: a flaming shitnado of ghoulish controversy
posted by kirkaracha at 6:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
FWIW, Harry Enten of 538 was on the latest Trumpcast, and he acknowledged that polls are tightening, but said it really wasn't anything to worry about.
posted by peppermind at 6:58 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by peppermind at 6:58 AM on October 28, 2016
chris24: "Wikileaks just tweeted it last night."
Lol, Wikileaks scooped by the NYT.
posted by mhum at 7:00 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
Lol, Wikileaks scooped by the NYT.
posted by mhum at 7:00 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
Speaking of the NYT, what ever happened to that off-the-record moment that was rumored to exist, where Trump supposedly said all his immigration talk was BS that he wouldn't stick to. Remember that?
posted by cashman at 7:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Today is the 500th day of the Trump campaign.
And de Sade plotted only 100 days of Sodom. But I guess we're already leaning toward setting the movie about this campaign in Nazi Germany.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:03 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
And de Sade plotted only 100 days of Sodom. But I guess we're already leaning toward setting the movie about this campaign in Nazi Germany.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:03 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I dunno cashman, is it some kind of secret that Trump's policy positions (such as they are) are not sincerely held? Not that he wouldn't necessarily follow through with some truly terrible policymaking were he to be elected (TTTSC) but it would entirely depend on what he thought would be best for him at the time. There's lots of that sort of thing on record, enough so that for some of his supporters "he won't really do any of that stuff he says he's going to do" is actually a selling point.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:06 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:06 AM on October 28, 2016
So, this is frustrating to me. There's a lot of "duh, Florida" snark thrown around on this site and I mostly just grit my teeth and move on. Now, Florida has a Dem candidate that isn't super great, but at least HE'S RUNNING and it's a closer race than I've seen in a long time. I was pissed when the DSCC pulled their funding, because damn-I'm donating to HRC, Murphy and a local school board candidate and I'm tapped out financially. I've said it here before, there are Progressives in Florida and we canvass, phone bank, send cash and talk incessantly about issues and candidates and we could use a little support here, rather than people in other areas of the country sniffily looking down their noses at us.I realize that I'm responding to something from last night in an election thread (apologies!)... but I want to second this SO MUCH.
Being a Democrat here isn't a picnic and having the party turn their backs on us doesn't help when we're trying to persuade qualified people to run for office against a well funded, well supported Republican party.
I don't know why Murphy is considered such a terrible candidate. Yes, he's made some votes I disagree with, but he's been tireless in fighting for his constituents in Florida's 18th, particularly in regards to the water crisis and All Aboard Florida. His district (where my parents live) is a true swing district with highly Republican areas and highly Democratic areas. It's a good match-up for what the rest of the state looks like. I wish Florida as a whole was more progressive, but it isn't. I just moved out of Debbie Wasserman Shultz's district a few months ago, and to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised by how well Tim Canova did in the primary. Sometimes you have to work with the electorate you have, not the electorate you wish you had.
I met Murphy at a Gloria Steinem lecture in 2012. He was the only man in the room. He didn't point out that he was running for congress, but simply asked a question about how men could be better allies in the fight for reproductive rights. That spoke volumes to me and it's the main reason why I voted for him in the senate primary.
I do think Murphy's campaign could have been a lot better about getting their message out. And I do get that the larger party apparatus has to be strategic about money... but it's still infuriating for those of us who actually live here.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:07 AM on October 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
well, i'm late to the shitshow as usual, but trump wants to cancel the election and assume office?
even hitler put up with an election or two on his way to power
posted by pyramid termite at 7:09 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
even hitler put up with an election or two on his way to power
posted by pyramid termite at 7:09 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
even hitler put up with an election or two on his way to power
did military service too as I recall
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:10 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
did military service too as I recall
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:10 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
It is my sincere hope that Latinx show up in huge numbers this year to vote against Trump, and that enough of them vote straight-ticked Democrat that it pushes people like Murphy over the line. I think there's reason to hope that the pollsters might be significantly underestimating Latinx turnout this year, on the basis that their turnout in previous elections has been fairly low. This year is different and I think a lot of Latinx folks know that.
I also hope that once they realize they have a lot more power if they turn out to vote, they keep doing it in future cycles. If you care about having humane immigration policies, the Democratic party is the only way to go—and I think that if they saw that there were suddenly a lot of votes to be had on that basis, they'd be receptive to making humane immigration reform a bigger part of the party platform. It could definitely be a mutually-beneficial relationship.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I also hope that once they realize they have a lot more power if they turn out to vote, they keep doing it in future cycles. If you care about having humane immigration policies, the Democratic party is the only way to go—and I think that if they saw that there were suddenly a lot of votes to be had on that basis, they'd be receptive to making humane immigration reform a bigger part of the party platform. It could definitely be a mutually-beneficial relationship.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
So Sen. Mark Kirk is debating Rep. Tammy Duckworth. And sunk to a new low.
How typically Republican. He's either a genuine racist, and contemptuous of non-whites, or he thinks his snide little smear will give him a boost with a base he believes is that racist. And on top of it all, he's factually incorrect. Contemptible, and unforgivable.
posted by Gelatin at 7:18 AM on October 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
How typically Republican. He's either a genuine racist, and contemptuous of non-whites, or he thinks his snide little smear will give him a boost with a base he believes is that racist. And on top of it all, he's factually incorrect. Contemptible, and unforgivable.
posted by Gelatin at 7:18 AM on October 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
For those of you like me who are getting heartburn from watching the polls: let Sam Wang reassure you... and then remind you that reassurance is not what he's in the business of providing.
posted by miles per flower at 7:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
Don’t be like journalists who run off after the most extreme report – that is ridiculous. The only honest thing to do is to take a median of all the polls you can get your hands on. Right now, the collected wisdom of all the poll is that Hillary Clinton is ahead by 6 percentage points nationally. Not 4 points, and not 8 points. Her lead is 6.0 +/- 0.9 % (n=12 polls over the period October 20-26, median +/- estimated one-sigma standard error). [...]Keep breathing. That’s the key. Breathe!
I’ll be honest – sometimes I get a little impatient with readers who show up here mainly looking for reassurance in the Presidential race. I understand this is an attraction of the site. But occasionally when I run into people who say they come to my site and feel relieved, I detect a hint of implied complacency. That would be antithetical to why I do this!
I view PEC as a tool for directing your positive energies to make a difference. Of course we are interested in the Presidential race…but there is little that can be done to affect it. It is basically decided. A good way to work off any anxiety is to work on races where we genuinely don’t know what will happen. Senate control is totally up in the air. There is Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania…so much to do. [...]
posted by miles per flower at 7:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
Also, I hope that any Latinx folks who are challenged at the polls on the basis of their "unAmerican" skin tone throw it right back in the face of the challengers and ask them to prove their American citizenship. My mother's family has been here since the Fortune landed in Plymouth Bay, but I don't carry proof of citizenship on me. If you asked me to prove that I was a citizen, I'd have to go home and get my passport.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:22 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:22 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
JustKeepSwimming: "I don't know why Murphy is considered such a terrible candidate."
I can't speak for anyone else, but living about as far away from Florida as you can in the continguous US, probably the main source of poor impressions I have about Patrick Murphy come from this CBS4 Miami piece from June. I don't know how fair the piece really is but it was pretty unforgiving.
posted by mhum at 7:25 AM on October 28, 2016
I can't speak for anyone else, but living about as far away from Florida as you can in the continguous US, probably the main source of poor impressions I have about Patrick Murphy come from this CBS4 Miami piece from June. I don't know how fair the piece really is but it was pretty unforgiving.
posted by mhum at 7:25 AM on October 28, 2016
Actually, if you asked me to prove that I was a citizen at the polls I'd probably say "Fuck You, get out of my face," but you get what I mean.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm unlikely to ever encounter one of these "poll watchers" in the wild, but I would love to lay on them the fact that I myself was not born in this country, my father is right this second not a citizen, and I came here as a child, and ask why they aren't challenging me if they are so concerned about election integrity. (Spoiler alert: I am very white.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
This American Life - Seriously - Sara Bareilles and Leslie Odom, Jr. This American Life asked Sara Bareilles (Broadway’s “Waitress”) to imagine what President Obama might be thinking about the current election and Donald Trump, but can’t say publicly. Leslie Odom, Jr., performs the song. (direct Youtube)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
even hitler put up with an election or two on his way to power
did military service too as I recall
It's pretty clear Trump considers his high-school years in military school (NY Military Academy, in Cornwall, NY) to be the equivalent of military service. From a WaPo article:
posted by aught at 7:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [40 favorites]
did military service too as I recall
It's pretty clear Trump considers his high-school years in military school (NY Military Academy, in Cornwall, NY) to be the equivalent of military service. From a WaPo article:
Although he received educational and medical deferments from the Vietnam War draft, he has said that the school provided him “more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military.”Why any veteran who actually risked his life to serve the country would consider voting for Trump for even a second is beyond me.
posted by aught at 7:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [40 favorites]
Why any veteran who actually risked his life to serve the country would consider voting for Trump for even a second is beyond me.
Every vet that I know who's pro-Trump is actually anti-Clinton under the surface veneer of Trumpery (either any Clinton or Hillary specifically).
posted by Etrigan at 7:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Every vet that I know who's pro-Trump is actually anti-Clinton under the surface veneer of Trumpery (either any Clinton or Hillary specifically).
posted by Etrigan at 7:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump: 'We should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump'
So what's the chance that he just declares himself President no matter what happens and actually BELIEVE that he is.
Hey, there's a vacant seat he could take:Norton Trump I, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico.
So what's the chance that he just declares himself President no matter what happens and actually BELIEVE that he is.
Hey, there's a vacant seat he could take:
Although he had no political power, and his influence extended only so far as he was humored by those around him, he was treated deferentially in San Francisco, and currency issued in his name was honored in the establishments he frequented.posted by filthy light thief at 7:38 AM on October 28, 2016
Though some considered him insane or eccentric, citizens of San Francisco celebrated his regal presence and his proclamations, such as his order that the United States Congress be dissolved by force...
This American Life - Seriously - Sara Bareilles and Leslie Odom, Jr. This American Life asked Sara Bareilles (Broadway’s “Waitress”) to imagine what President Obama might be thinking about the current election and Donald Trump, but can’t say publicly. Leslie Odom, Jr., performs the song.
That seriously brought tears to my eyes
posted by mumimor at 7:39 AM on October 28, 2016
From my experience working with vets, many of them are pretty misogynistic and authoritarian. Trump is both of those things, so there you go.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:39 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:39 AM on October 28, 2016
Hey, there's a vacant seat he could take:
Don't you dare compare Trump to Norton I.
posted by Etrigan at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [31 favorites]
Don't you dare compare Trump to Norton I.
posted by Etrigan at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [31 favorites]
aught: Why any veteran who actually risked his life to serve the country would consider voting for Trump for even a second is beyond me.
Off the top of my head: Donald is a man and Hillary is not, Hillary is corrupt and Donald is ... less(?), Donald is a man of God (so he says) and Hillary is all for separation of church and state, and Donald keeps talking about making the military great again.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2016
Off the top of my head: Donald is a man and Hillary is not, Hillary is corrupt and Donald is ... less(?), Donald is a man of God (so he says) and Hillary is all for separation of church and state, and Donald keeps talking about making the military great again.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2016
NYT: The Road Trip That Changed Hillary Clinton’s Life (video autoplays) "The trip 42 years ago offers a glimpse at a Hillary Clinton the public seldom sees. She was not yet a self-assured lawyer, a powerful political wife or a tenacious presidential candidate, but a young woman, wide-eyed and eager, vulnerable and afraid, at the cusp of a momentous decision that would alter the course of her life."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Six percent. Christ that's thin.
I am honestly quite afraid of the consequences of a widespread belief that a six percent poll lead justifies complacency. Because the thing about Trump supporters is that they really, really don't want Clinton to win, and they will turn out.
posted by flabdablet at 7:42 AM on October 28, 2016
I am honestly quite afraid of the consequences of a widespread belief that a six percent poll lead justifies complacency. Because the thing about Trump supporters is that they really, really don't want Clinton to win, and they will turn out.
posted by flabdablet at 7:42 AM on October 28, 2016
538 wriggly win graph just slid all the way back to Iowa.
I really need to stop treating that thing like it's my personal health meter or something.
posted by Artw at 7:47 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I really need to stop treating that thing like it's my personal health meter or something.
posted by Artw at 7:47 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Ehh, it sounds thin but it's really not by the standards of modern American politics. The fact of the matter is that the country is so polarized that the majority of voters already know which side they'll be voting for before anybody even declares that they're running. Campaigning is all about pushing the margins—getting a few more of your people out to the polls, persuading a few more of the sliver of undecided voters to cast their vote for you, etc. So that six percent advantage represents a much bigger percentage of the votes that were ever actually on the table. Also, the way that our electoral system is set up, it doesn't necessarily take a big polling advantage to create a big electoral college advantage. 538 for instance gives Clinton a 5.7% popular vote advantage right now, but it translates into about a 40% electoral college advantage.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
All right, it's decision time for me in ultra-liberal Massachusetts. Do I do the responsible thing, and go find a Johnson voter in Georgia or Texas who will swap votes with me? Or do I go with my 3-year-old daughter to the polls, and let her fill in the oval for the first lady president?
posted by Mayor West at 7:51 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 7:51 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Or do I go with my 3-year-old daughter to the polls, and let her fill in the oval for the first lady president?
That is the most responsible thing to do.
posted by papercrane at 7:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [42 favorites]
That is the most responsible thing to do.
posted by papercrane at 7:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [42 favorites]
NYT: The Road Trip That Changed Hillary Clinton’s Life (video autoplays) "The trip 42 years ago offers a glimpse at a Hillary Clinton the public seldom sees. She was not yet a self-assured lawyer, a powerful political wife or a tenacious presidential candidate, but a young woman, wide-eyed and eager, vulnerable and afraid, at the cusp of a momentous decision that would alter the course of her life."
This was so nice, r317, thanks for sharing.
posted by zutalors! at 7:54 AM on October 28, 2016
This was so nice, r317, thanks for sharing.
posted by zutalors! at 7:54 AM on October 28, 2016
Six percent. Christ that's thin.
It really isn't, though.
You're right that we shouldn't be complacent, but 6% is not insignificant.
Because the thing about Trump supporters is that they really, really don't want Clinton to win, and they will turn out.
They haven't really been turning out particularly strongly, though. Early voting numbers overall show a slight increase in registered Democrats over 2012, with registered Republicans turning out at roughly the same rate as they did four years ago, except in Florida & NC, where early vote numbers for registered Republicans are slightly lower than they were at the last rodeo.
So that's a thing.
posted by dersins at 7:54 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
It really isn't, though.
You're right that we shouldn't be complacent, but 6% is not insignificant.
Because the thing about Trump supporters is that they really, really don't want Clinton to win, and they will turn out.
They haven't really been turning out particularly strongly, though. Early voting numbers overall show a slight increase in registered Democrats over 2012, with registered Republicans turning out at roughly the same rate as they did four years ago, except in Florida & NC, where early vote numbers for registered Republicans are slightly lower than they were at the last rodeo.
So that's a thing.
posted by dersins at 7:54 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
I early voted in Massachusetts yesterday, Mayor West, and I can tell you it was incredibly satisfying to fill in that oval. Let your daughter be part of history, I say.
Also, for what it's worth: I live in a smallish, affluent suburb that mostly votes Republican. There were no lines and the whole process was extremely civil. They had "I Voted" stickers! Also, my town got a Gold Medal from the state for early voting, on the basis that they are offering it not just during business hours but also during weeknights and on the weekends.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, for what it's worth: I live in a smallish, affluent suburb that mostly votes Republican. There were no lines and the whole process was extremely civil. They had "I Voted" stickers! Also, my town got a Gold Medal from the state for early voting, on the basis that they are offering it not just during business hours but also during weeknights and on the weekends.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
As an observer from outside, it is just so incredible that Trump still is at 40% of the vote. And scary. How can that be?? are there that many completely ignorant Americans?
Then again I know we are in similar situations in Europe.
posted by mumimor at 7:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Then again I know we are in similar situations in Europe.
posted by mumimor at 7:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
TheHeckler: Tom Ricketts leaves Cubs to be Ted Cruz’s body double
[fake story][real resemblance][creepy]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:01 AM on October 28, 2016
[fake story][real resemblance][creepy]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:01 AM on October 28, 2016
Six percent. Christ that's thin.
That's big. Obama went into the election in 2012 up .7%.
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2016 [31 favorites]
That's big. Obama went into the election in 2012 up .7%.
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2016 [31 favorites]
As an observer from outside, it is just so incredible that Trump still is at 40% of the vote. And scary. How can that be?? are there that many completely ignorant Americans?
If it makes you feel any better, 40% is about the numbers that a moldy ham sandwich would get if it had "R" next to it on the ballot.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 AM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
If it makes you feel any better, 40% is about the numbers that a moldy ham sandwich would get if it had "R" next to it on the ballot.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 AM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
mumimor: "As an observer from outside, it is just so incredible that Trump still is at 40% of the vote. And scary. How can that be?? are there that many completely ignorant Americans?"
As always, it's complicated. “Ignorant” is the wrong word. Just as we saw with Brexit, there are many Americans whose stories don't get told, who consume an insular set of media (which cable and the internet have made quite easy), who all know one another but don't know any Democrats, and who deeply resent the status quo to the extent that they'll cast a vote for the first charlatan who pretends he's against the status quo.
posted by savetheclocktower at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
As always, it's complicated. “Ignorant” is the wrong word. Just as we saw with Brexit, there are many Americans whose stories don't get told, who consume an insular set of media (which cable and the internet have made quite easy), who all know one another but don't know any Democrats, and who deeply resent the status quo to the extent that they'll cast a vote for the first charlatan who pretends he's against the status quo.
posted by savetheclocktower at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
I agree with dersins re: Trumpsters not turning out at particularly high levels. I don't have anything really scientific to base this on, but I think that Trump's core following is mostly slacktivist (and a not-inconsiderable percentage of his most vocal online supporters are probably not of voting age yet) and isn't going to turn out in unusual force on election day. Also, I think that some Republicans have been turned off by Trump and will stay home in disgust. Just a hunch, but I feel pretty good about it.
Trump's core of followers is also smaller than he would like us to think. His rallies get a lot of press, but the audience sizes aren't actually that big. There are probably some hard nuts in there, but while they're dangerous on a stochastic-terrorism level there aren't enough of them to make a big difference in the ballot box.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump's core of followers is also smaller than he would like us to think. His rallies get a lot of press, but the audience sizes aren't actually that big. There are probably some hard nuts in there, but while they're dangerous on a stochastic-terrorism level there aren't enough of them to make a big difference in the ballot box.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Mayor West, I am 44 and I remember going into the voting booth with one of my parent as a little boy. Taking your daughter in with you to vote for the first woman president would be pretty amazing. Do it!!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
That is the most responsible thing to do.
That's the way I'm leaning, but then I remember that margins of error exist, and wonder if it's worth her having to live in the Republic of Gilead just because I was too proud to do the legwork of moving a vote to Florida or Ohio .
posted by Mayor West at 8:10 AM on October 28, 2016
That's the way I'm leaning, but then I remember that margins of error exist, and wonder if it's worth her having to live in the Republic of Gilead just because I was too proud to do the legwork of moving a vote to Florida or Ohio .
posted by Mayor West at 8:10 AM on October 28, 2016
This month's New Yorker has a fantastic photo essay on 20 first time voters from across the spectrum in age, heritage, and ideology. Besides the great portraits by Katy Grannan, they also have statements from each of the voters on who they're voting for and why that are enlightening and sometimes infuriating.
“I’m a member of the Beach Goys. Instead of meeting up on the Internet, we’ll meet up in bars and shoot the breeze. I wouldn’t say white nationalist, because it’s kind of a loaded term. It’s like someone asking you if you’re racist—you know what I mean? So I would reject that term. It’s definitely alternative right wing—I would say it’s an alt-right group for sure. Nationalist, in that we’re nationalist, and definitely patriotic. The thing about the word ‘racist’ is that every time it gets used it loses meaning. For the past decade or two, it’s been used by people on the left as a kill shot. That just kills your argument, no matter what you’re trying to say. You’re a racist and therefore you’re evil and therefore you lose. But I think people are noticing that it doesn’t work that way anymore. I’ve had plenty of people who, even if they just got a whiff of my political views, would be extremely unpleasant to me. I’m just used to people being hostile toward the way I think. That’s what a lot of people on the left don’t realize. It’s not 1959 anymore. You’re the establishment. You guys run shit. I’m on the other side of that. Not to toot my own horn, or whatever. I’m just saying it’s actually difficult being a minority in that respect. That’s why I know Trump’s going to win, because there are a lot of disillusioned white people who don’t vote that are voting for the first time.”
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
“I’m a member of the Beach Goys. Instead of meeting up on the Internet, we’ll meet up in bars and shoot the breeze. I wouldn’t say white nationalist, because it’s kind of a loaded term. It’s like someone asking you if you’re racist—you know what I mean? So I would reject that term. It’s definitely alternative right wing—I would say it’s an alt-right group for sure. Nationalist, in that we’re nationalist, and definitely patriotic. The thing about the word ‘racist’ is that every time it gets used it loses meaning. For the past decade or two, it’s been used by people on the left as a kill shot. That just kills your argument, no matter what you’re trying to say. You’re a racist and therefore you’re evil and therefore you lose. But I think people are noticing that it doesn’t work that way anymore. I’ve had plenty of people who, even if they just got a whiff of my political views, would be extremely unpleasant to me. I’m just used to people being hostile toward the way I think. That’s what a lot of people on the left don’t realize. It’s not 1959 anymore. You’re the establishment. You guys run shit. I’m on the other side of that. Not to toot my own horn, or whatever. I’m just saying it’s actually difficult being a minority in that respect. That’s why I know Trump’s going to win, because there are a lot of disillusioned white people who don’t vote that are voting for the first time.”
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have noticed that Hillary has consistently been ahead in the polls, which gives me hope for the morning of 9 November. I have also voted and done GOTV work for Hillary.
The moral of the story is DO 👏🏻NOT 👏🏻 UNDER 👏🏻 ANY 👏🏻 CIRCUMSTANCES 👏🏻GET 👏🏻 COMPLACENT 👏🏻
posted by pxe2000 at 8:13 AM on October 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
The moral of the story is DO 👏🏻NOT 👏🏻 UNDER 👏🏻 ANY 👏🏻 CIRCUMSTANCES 👏🏻GET 👏🏻 COMPLACENT 👏🏻
posted by pxe2000 at 8:13 AM on October 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
As an observer from outside, it is just so incredible that Trump still is at 40% of the vote. And scary. How can that be??
This is precisely my perspective as an observer and participant on the inside. I don't care how close other elections are. This election should be 98% / 2%. The fact that anyone at all can look at Trump and think he's not only qualified for anything but more qualified than another candidate (regardless of what you happen to think of them or their views) is flabbergasting. I spent months and months studiously not thinking about any of it because it is so deeply frightening and troubling. Jesus, I hate Palin, but at least she had held elective office and had some sort of actual (godawful) positions on things. I feel like Trump is the universe laughing at me for thinking Dubya or Palin was as bad as it could get.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [23 favorites]
This is precisely my perspective as an observer and participant on the inside. I don't care how close other elections are. This election should be 98% / 2%. The fact that anyone at all can look at Trump and think he's not only qualified for anything but more qualified than another candidate (regardless of what you happen to think of them or their views) is flabbergasting. I spent months and months studiously not thinking about any of it because it is so deeply frightening and troubling. Jesus, I hate Palin, but at least she had held elective office and had some sort of actual (godawful) positions on things. I feel like Trump is the universe laughing at me for thinking Dubya or Palin was as bad as it could get.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [23 favorites]
Political Pros See No Logic in Trump's All-Over-the-Map Campaign Schedule
Rather than focusing their efforts on must-win battleground states, Trump and his running mate Mike Pence have crisscrossed the country in a frantic last-minute dash that this week include a rally in Colorado, where Hillary Clinton has a sizable lead, and a stop for a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the Republican nominee’s Washington, D.C. hotel.posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
“With limited time and limited resources, you can’t try to do everything,” GOP strategist Matt Mackowiak told TPM. “You have to make difficult strategic decisions and I just don’t see them doing that. I see them deploying time and resources based on his instincts, not based on data.”
Got my "I Voted" sticker this morning in my Boston suburb city hall. Just a handful of people were there - for some reason the ballot was shorter than I was expecting. The only R on it was Tr*mpp*nc*, I think everyone else on it was an unopposed D.
Felt good for a few minutes, but then I realized I really missed the background radiation of pre-panic attack anxiety, so I'm going to go back to worrying for the next week and a half! Nailed it
posted by the painkiller at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Felt good for a few minutes, but then I realized I really missed the background radiation of pre-panic attack anxiety, so I'm going to go back to worrying for the next week and a half! Nailed it
posted by the painkiller at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Also, I attempted to get my brother to vote for Hillary. As a single-issue voter, however, he plans on pulling the lever for Johnson. (Insert "Gary Johnson is a pothead" joke here.)
posted by pxe2000 at 8:18 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by pxe2000 at 8:18 AM on October 28, 2016
Political Pros See No Logic in Trump's All-Over-the-Map Campaign Schedule
I believe the technical term is "flailing."
posted by aught at 8:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I believe the technical term is "flailing."
posted by aught at 8:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I’m just saying it’s actually difficult being a minority in that respect. That’s why I know Trump’s going to win, because there are a lot of disillusioned white people who don’t vote that are voting for the first time.”
ok dude you're 21 so yeah of course this is the first time you're voting
also you can't be in the minority but also part of a sekrit silent majority because that's not how math works
also also you're in Los Angeles, so
posted by dersins at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
ok dude you're 21 so yeah of course this is the first time you're voting
also you can't be in the minority but also part of a sekrit silent majority because that's not how math works
also also you're in Los Angeles, so
posted by dersins at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
pxe2000, is that a clap or a slap? I'm currently watching some old Jeeves and Wooster while I'm working, and I'm imagining Stiffy Bing delivering a bracing slap to Bertie as a way of bucking him up. It's certainly a more cheering image than picturing whatever's going on in Trumpland.
(My schedule has changed a bit, and I think I'm going to stop off to vote in a few hours after running some errands. Go Texas!!)
posted by Salieri at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
(My schedule has changed a bit, and I think I'm going to stop off to vote in a few hours after running some errands. Go Texas!!)
posted by Salieri at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gary Johnson gives potheads a bad name. I'm all for marijuana legalization, but that's one of the stupidest single issues I can imagine voting for. There are much more important things at stake this election.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Nate Silver today:
posted by one_bean at 8:23 AM on October 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
Clearer signs now of a tighter race, as Trump has inched up to 21% in our polls-plus forecast (19% in polls-only)Nate Silver yesterday:
People are *reaallllly* pushing the "it's tightening!" narrative and 🍒 cherry-picking 🍒 a lot to do it.There's like a 2% difference in Trump's chances between yesterday and today, and they've ticked backed down since Nate's latest tweet.
posted by one_bean at 8:23 AM on October 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
It's a clap.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:24 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pxe2000 at 8:24 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I've completely stopped listening to the play-by-play polls analysis on 538. He's cried wolf way too many times at this point.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I want to hear him say "Skaneatles." (Locals say "Skinny-atlas.")
I want even more to hear him say "Etobicoke" (the K is silent for some reason), because that would also imply that he's accidentally campaigning in Ontario.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I want even more to hear him say "Etobicoke" (the K is silent for some reason), because that would also imply that he's accidentally campaigning in Ontario.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
As an observer from outside, it is just so incredible that Trump still is at 40% of the vote. And scary. How can that be?? are there that many completely ignorant Americans?
Short answer: alas, yep.
Longer answer: there may not be that many "completely ignorant" Americans, so much as there are
1. Completely ignorant Americans
2. Not-completely-ignorant Americans who are blinded by the irrational rage they feel at the American system—to the point of gravitating to the incarnation of that rage (Trump)
3. Not-completely-ignorant Americans who are blinded by their religious beliefs—to the point of feeling duty-bound to follow the advice of their religious leaders to support Trump
4. Not-at-all-ignorant Americans who are willing to gamble on a Trump presidency if it means keeping Republicans in power
5. Americans of varying degrees of ignorance—from not at all to very ignorant—who are willing to gamble on a Trump presidency if it means keeping Hillary Clinton out of office
No idea what the breakdown of each group is percentage-wise, and I suppose you could argue that #2 and #3 are just a more sophisticated variety of ignorance. But from my perspective here in the Midwest, that's what I'm seeing.
Also worth noting (and for me, the most troubling):
1. All these groups have flourished thanks to a concentrated effort to de-educate them over the past 30 years (by gutting education funding and demonizing teachers' unions) on the one hand, and indoctrinate them over the past 8 years (via a massive wave of right-wing media) on the other
2. Nowhere on the list above are Americans you would describe as "Not ignorant at all, who actually believe Trump is fit for the Presidency, knows the first thing about the country he'd be running or the world in which it operates, and has good policy ideas."
posted by Rykey at 8:31 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Short answer: alas, yep.
Longer answer: there may not be that many "completely ignorant" Americans, so much as there are
1. Completely ignorant Americans
2. Not-completely-ignorant Americans who are blinded by the irrational rage they feel at the American system—to the point of gravitating to the incarnation of that rage (Trump)
3. Not-completely-ignorant Americans who are blinded by their religious beliefs—to the point of feeling duty-bound to follow the advice of their religious leaders to support Trump
4. Not-at-all-ignorant Americans who are willing to gamble on a Trump presidency if it means keeping Republicans in power
5. Americans of varying degrees of ignorance—from not at all to very ignorant—who are willing to gamble on a Trump presidency if it means keeping Hillary Clinton out of office
No idea what the breakdown of each group is percentage-wise, and I suppose you could argue that #2 and #3 are just a more sophisticated variety of ignorance. But from my perspective here in the Midwest, that's what I'm seeing.
Also worth noting (and for me, the most troubling):
1. All these groups have flourished thanks to a concentrated effort to de-educate them over the past 30 years (by gutting education funding and demonizing teachers' unions) on the one hand, and indoctrinate them over the past 8 years (via a massive wave of right-wing media) on the other
2. Nowhere on the list above are Americans you would describe as "Not ignorant at all, who actually believe Trump is fit for the Presidency, knows the first thing about the country he'd be running or the world in which it operates, and has good policy ideas."
posted by Rykey at 8:31 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Nate Silver: "I'm seeing a wide, insurmountable Hillary lead for people with ad blockers, while those with out ad blockers will notice an extreme tightening in the polls."
[fake]
posted by gwint at 8:32 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
[fake]
posted by gwint at 8:32 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
I can't speak for anyone else, but living about as far away from Florida as you can in the continguous US, probably the main source of poor impressions I have about Patrick Murphy come from this CBS4 Miami piece from June. I don't know how fair the piece really is but it was pretty unforgiving.
Somehow I had missed that. (I'm not sure how an article like that didn't make the progressive arts people of Miami facebook circuit, but if it did, I'm sure I would have remembered it.) It does make a lot of perception stuff make a lot more sense. My impressions of Murphy primarily come from my progressive parents, who mostly adore him as their congressperson, including my reluctant Hillary supporting, not-quite-a-Bernie-or-Buster Mom.
Thanks for sharing.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:33 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Somehow I had missed that. (I'm not sure how an article like that didn't make the progressive arts people of Miami facebook circuit, but if it did, I'm sure I would have remembered it.) It does make a lot of perception stuff make a lot more sense. My impressions of Murphy primarily come from my progressive parents, who mostly adore him as their congressperson, including my reluctant Hillary supporting, not-quite-a-Bernie-or-Buster Mom.
Thanks for sharing.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:33 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
that's one of the stupidest single issues I can imagine voting for. There are much more important things at stake this election.
The funny thing is that there are marijuana legalization initiatives on the ballots of quite a few states this year, and most likely they'll help GOTV for the Democrats. Not Gary Johnson, who, if you're a single issue weed voter, is basically irrelevant at this point.
I think at this point most informed people see the path as legalization in California and possibly a Northeastern state, increased visibility and normalizing of it, and then eventual relaxing of federal laws. Nobody actually thinks the goal is to elect a President who runs on a specific "legalize it" platform.
posted by Sara C. at 8:34 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
The funny thing is that there are marijuana legalization initiatives on the ballots of quite a few states this year, and most likely they'll help GOTV for the Democrats. Not Gary Johnson, who, if you're a single issue weed voter, is basically irrelevant at this point.
I think at this point most informed people see the path as legalization in California and possibly a Northeastern state, increased visibility and normalizing of it, and then eventual relaxing of federal laws. Nobody actually thinks the goal is to elect a President who runs on a specific "legalize it" platform.
posted by Sara C. at 8:34 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also let's not forget the not-insignificant number of actual white supremacists who see Trump as being a standard-bearer for their racist cause. That's a real thing.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
(Thanks, you guys -- I think I am hooked up!!!!)
posted by wenestvedt at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by wenestvedt at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016
"Skaneatles" seems like it should be the name of a ska band that plays nothing but Beatles covers.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
like, no offense, but the New Yorker first time voter article linked above had plenty of people voting for Clinton, but of course only the white Trump racist who feels like a minority is discussed here.
Here's one:
I came to the U.S. in 1983. Immigration detained me the first time. They sent me to my country again. After two months in El Salvador, I came back and they detained me again. I was incarcerated for another two months in Texas. There I got an attorney. The U.S. gave me asylum. My half brother had been killed in El Salvador. We understood that he had been asked to join the guerrilla army, and he didn’t want to, and we assumed that was why they—the guerrillas, the left—murdered him. Becoming a citizen was a miracle for me. I spent about five months studying my questions. I was afraid, because I don’t know how to read very well. I said to my wife, I’m going to fight to get my citizenship. I’m going to study as much as I can. I would study in my car, memorizing all the questions. I’m voting for Clinton. I see what she has been saying on TV, that they can help pass immigration laws, for the poor people who are suffering here, for the families. I’m not the kind of person who thinks, Now that I’m a citizen, I don’t want to help other people.” (Translated, from the Spanish, by José Ginarte.)
posted by zutalors! at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [30 favorites]
Here's one:
I came to the U.S. in 1983. Immigration detained me the first time. They sent me to my country again. After two months in El Salvador, I came back and they detained me again. I was incarcerated for another two months in Texas. There I got an attorney. The U.S. gave me asylum. My half brother had been killed in El Salvador. We understood that he had been asked to join the guerrilla army, and he didn’t want to, and we assumed that was why they—the guerrillas, the left—murdered him. Becoming a citizen was a miracle for me. I spent about five months studying my questions. I was afraid, because I don’t know how to read very well. I said to my wife, I’m going to fight to get my citizenship. I’m going to study as much as I can. I would study in my car, memorizing all the questions. I’m voting for Clinton. I see what she has been saying on TV, that they can help pass immigration laws, for the poor people who are suffering here, for the families. I’m not the kind of person who thinks, Now that I’m a citizen, I don’t want to help other people.” (Translated, from the Spanish, by José Ginarte.)
posted by zutalors! at 8:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [30 favorites]
cybercoitus interruptus: Why Women Are Still Voting For Trump, Despite His Misogyny
Women who want to be protected in the private sphere or need to be protected in the private sphere tend to emphasize the need to protect and privilege women’s special capacities for nurturing. I think it’s a big factor in the debates over contraception and sexuality and abortion. The flip side of women having all these freedoms from male control, they believe, is that it actually threatens women’s entitlement to male protection.posted by filthy light thief at 8:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
...
People have interviewed anti-abortion activists. And many times, they have expressed the idea that this just gives men all the more power over women. That it makes it easier for a man to refuse to marry a woman that he may have slept with and gotten knocked up.
When my son was in a Louisiana public hospital — amid all the cutbacks in public services that Bobby Jindal prevailed over — I had several opportunities to get into long conversations with Trump supporters. The few women that I talked with, they certainly were not the pious people who expected to be or had been virgins until marriage. But they still held very strongly to the idea that they needed marriage, and that men should take responsibility and step up to the plate.
And so they saw a lot of these high-achieving women as giving men permission to be total individualists and not to step up if they need to get married, and also that these women are taking jobs that should go to men with families to support. I don’t think the profane attacks that some women make and proudly allow their sons to make on Hillary Clinton are driven by exactly the same contempt for women that that you see in some men’s remarks, but by this hatred of elite women who seem to be taking jobs from their men and saying to men: Women don’t need your help, women can do it on their own.
...
I was very struck by the female supporter who said Trump is like the bully you want to beat up on the other bully. There is longstanding social science evidence that people with fewer resources, educational or economic, tend to look heroes — or villains even— to stand up for them. Somebody they think has some kind of power that they don’t have.
As an observer from outside, it is just so incredible that Trump still is at 40% of the vote. And scary. How can that be??
I'm not sure that there are survey questions that neatly get at this, but I expect that one factor in maintaining that 40\% is that there are a fair number of people who are willing to cast a losing protest vote for him but who do not actually want him to be President.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure that there are survey questions that neatly get at this, but I expect that one factor in maintaining that 40\% is that there are a fair number of people who are willing to cast a losing protest vote for him but who do not actually want him to be President.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
The thing about the word ‘racist’ is that every time it gets used it loses meaning.
Ummmmmmmm this is definitely not a phenomenon that I have experienced.
Literally every time I have ever heard someone use the term "racist", they have meant it as its dictionary definition, that of hating people of other races. But as a member of a gang called the "Beach Goys", I guess you probably wouldn't know anything about that, bro.
posted by Sara C. at 8:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ummmmmmmm this is definitely not a phenomenon that I have experienced.
Literally every time I have ever heard someone use the term "racist", they have meant it as its dictionary definition, that of hating people of other races. But as a member of a gang called the "Beach Goys", I guess you probably wouldn't know anything about that, bro.
posted by Sara C. at 8:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Re: Re: Trump Supporters and Their Hope
I got a few more answers to my Facebook post asking who people thought would win. Most people see Hillary winning, for various reasons (including "people are sheep", "fear of Trump", "Obama got 120% of the vote in some places"), and there was one person who mentioned polls but said they're always changing, but I finally got what I think is a "Trump's gonna win" answer.
He was real weird and cagey and passive aggressive and probably a little rude about it, and didn't actually say he thought Trump would win, and I had to do some research to avoid watching a 45 minute video, but as far as I can tell he thinks God told Melania to tell Donald to run. I think this idea of Trump being a Biblical King Cyrus was discussed here a while back, so it's probably old news, but it's apparently getting airtime again in some circles.
What's really interesting to me is that because there's something like 3 layers of quotes going on, I can't tell who is making the claim that God inspired Donald's presidential campaign - was it Melania, making the claim to Donald? Was it Donald, making the claim to this Lance Wallnau guy (who is selling a book about Trump being God's guy)? Or is it Wallnau, who heard that Melania told Donald to run, and is now making the claim that it was something prophetic?
Full Disclosure: I believe God can and does direct people, and I believe that a logical conclusion from that is prophecy, but this whole claim is crap. If you're getting direction from an omniscient being, it should probably be a little better than a game of telephone.
I've also seen this person post in the last 24 hours the really old news about James Dobson (maybe) saying that Trump is (maybe) a Christian, so I think he's just reaching for anything that can support God giving Trump the win. He also seems pretty sold on (at least some communities having) rigged elections, so I'm slightly curious how that all squares up.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if I can get a reasonable conversation going with the person who posted this to find out his thoughts if Trump loses. Probably not worth it.
So, in conclusion, across all the answers, I have the following Trump supporter results:
I got a few more answers to my Facebook post asking who people thought would win. Most people see Hillary winning, for various reasons (including "people are sheep", "fear of Trump", "Obama got 120% of the vote in some places"), and there was one person who mentioned polls but said they're always changing, but I finally got what I think is a "Trump's gonna win" answer.
He was real weird and cagey and passive aggressive and probably a little rude about it, and didn't actually say he thought Trump would win, and I had to do some research to avoid watching a 45 minute video, but as far as I can tell he thinks God told Melania to tell Donald to run. I think this idea of Trump being a Biblical King Cyrus was discussed here a while back, so it's probably old news, but it's apparently getting airtime again in some circles.
What's really interesting to me is that because there's something like 3 layers of quotes going on, I can't tell who is making the claim that God inspired Donald's presidential campaign - was it Melania, making the claim to Donald? Was it Donald, making the claim to this Lance Wallnau guy (who is selling a book about Trump being God's guy)? Or is it Wallnau, who heard that Melania told Donald to run, and is now making the claim that it was something prophetic?
Full Disclosure: I believe God can and does direct people, and I believe that a logical conclusion from that is prophecy, but this whole claim is crap. If you're getting direction from an omniscient being, it should probably be a little better than a game of telephone.
I've also seen this person post in the last 24 hours the really old news about James Dobson (maybe) saying that Trump is (maybe) a Christian, so I think he's just reaching for anything that can support God giving Trump the win. He also seems pretty sold on (at least some communities having) rigged elections, so I'm slightly curious how that all squares up.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if I can get a reasonable conversation going with the person who posted this to find out his thoughts if Trump loses. Probably not worth it.
So, in conclusion, across all the answers, I have the following Trump supporter results:
- 5 self-described Trump voters
- 2 of those voters think he will win
- 1 thinks Trump will win because the corruption of the Clintons is well known
- 1 probably thinks Trump will win because Lance Wallnau is selling a book telling us that God told Melania to tell Donald
- 3 of the Trump voters think he will lose
- 1 because of 3rd party spoilers
- 1 because people are sheep
- 1 with a half-hearted mention of rigged elections
melissasaurus: Donald Trump’s March to Loserland Is Only Beginning
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
Up in Canada, Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson has written to the developer of the new Trump International Hotel and Tower there, asking that the name lose the Trump..Huh, the bully is all words, no action, and no fooking plan.
“As mayor, I’m proud that Vancouver is known throughout the world for our steadfast commitment to diversity, equality and freedom from discrimination and hatred,” Robertson wrote. “In contrast, Donald Trump’s hateful positions and commentary remind us all of much darker times in our world’s past—and it is incumbent on all of us to forcefully challenge hatred in all of the ways it confronts us.”
The developer, Holborn, declined, saying it is “not in any way involved in US politics,” as if this were just politics. The company went ahead and installed TRUMP in outsized chrome letters, but immediately covered it with tarps—purportedly to protect it from being scratched during the finishing up—and kept it hidden as the opening was delayed from late summer to fall and now to January. A spokesman for the firm was quoting insisting that the timing had nothing to do with the American election.
“Absolutely not,” he said.
...
A measure of the premium he places on his name came back in 2012, after Chris Puchowicz of Connecticut purchased the domain name Tump.org at public auction for $1,272. Puchowisc soon after received a missive on from a Trump lawyer on TRUMP letterhead via express mail charging him with “trademark infringement and cyber piracy.”
“The Trump name is internationally known and famous as a result of Mr. Trump’s long, extensive, and high profile business activities,” the letter said. “Unauthorized use of the Trump name will inevitably cause confusion in the public’s mind and dilute and tarnish the value of the Trump mark.”
Puchowisc reported this week in an email to the Daily Beast that he had refused to be intimated.
“I find it funny that Trump and his employees didn’t have the common sense to participate in the public auction, but days after tried to bully me so they could get the domain for free after I paid for it,” he wrote. “Lack of common sense and bullying/scare tactics. Pretty much sums his campaign up as well.”
Puchowisc added, “Not too long later the domain Trump.tv went up for public auction and I purchased it as well and it now forwards to Trump.org.”
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
This pull-quote, from the first person profiled in that New Yorker article, actually scares me almost as much the existence of a tiny minority of open white supremacists:
But feeling suspicious of Hillary... because she wants to win? Not only is it a misogynist dogwhistle, but also, the stupid, it burns.
posted by Sara C. at 8:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [37 favorites]
Hillary Clinton, she’s not a racist or anything, like Donald Trump, but it seems like she’s just in it to winGranted this is from a eighteen year old, and I was stupid when I was eighteen, too. (I "held my nose" and voted for Al Gore at 19. AL GORE, GUYS. *facepalm*)
But feeling suspicious of Hillary... because she wants to win? Not only is it a misogynist dogwhistle, but also, the stupid, it burns.
posted by Sara C. at 8:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [37 favorites]
Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug: 1 probably thinks Trump will win because Lance Wallnau is selling a book telling us that God told Melania to tell Donald
More Words from God: Philippines president says God warned him to stop swearing (The Guardian, Oct 28, 2016) Rodrigo Duterte, who called the pope a ‘son of a bitch’ and told Barack Obama to ‘go to hell’, said he heard a voice during a plane trip home
posted by filthy light thief at 8:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
More Words from God: Philippines president says God warned him to stop swearing (The Guardian, Oct 28, 2016) Rodrigo Duterte, who called the pope a ‘son of a bitch’ and told Barack Obama to ‘go to hell’, said he heard a voice during a plane trip home
Duterte made the pledge on Thursday when he arrived at his southern hometown of Davao city after a trip to Japan.Now, if God would only tell him to love the least of his and stop murdering suspected drug dealers and users. The Death Toll From Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte’s War on Drugs Has Exceeded 2,400 (as of September 5, 2016 - Time Magazine)
While flying home, he said, he was looking at the sky while everyone was sound asleep, some snoring, and he heard a voice that said: “If you don’t stop epithets, I will bring this plane down now”.
“And I said ‘Who is this?’ So, of course, ‘it’s God’,” he said.
“So, I promise God to ... not express slang, cuss words and everything. So you guys hear me right always because a promise to God is a promise to the Filipino people.”
Duterte’s vow was met with applause, but he cautioned: “Don’t clap too much or else this may get derailed.”
...
It is not certain if the 71-year-old president, who has been compared to US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump because of his brash language, can keep his promise. Duterte made a similar pledge in June when it became evident that he had won the 9 May presidential elections overwhelmingly on a pledge to end crimes, especially illegal drugs, and corruption.
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He said then that he was enjoying his last moments as a “rude person” because “when I become president, when I take my oath of office ... that will be a different story. There will be a metamorphosis”.
It didn’t take long for Duterte to break the promise. He has repeatedly levelled son of a bitch-laced tirades against Obama, UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon, and a few outspoken opposition politicians and human rights advocates, while heaping praise on Chinese and Russian leaders.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Betsy McCaughey accuses Trump-accusers of "man-shaming" the candidate [real. oh god why is it real?]
posted by Mayor West at 8:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 8:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Mayor West: real. oh god why is it real?
Trumpsters get their very own Trump Mirror for redirection?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trumpsters get their very own Trump Mirror for redirection?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
This pull-quote, from the first person profiled in that New Yorker article, actually scares me almost as much the existence of a tiny minority of open white supremacists:
Hillary Clinton, she’s not a racist or anything, like Donald Trump, but it seems like she’s just in it to win
Granted this is from a eighteen year old, and I was stupid when I was eighteen, too. (I "held my nose" and voted for Al Gore at 19. AL GORE, GUYS. *facepalm*)
But feeling suspicious of Hillary... because she wants to win? Not only is it a misogynist dogwhistle, but also, the stupid, it burns.
Plus she says "I haven't seen any commercials with her policies!" Like, fucking google it? She has a very clearly articulated platform!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hillary Clinton, she’s not a racist or anything, like Donald Trump, but it seems like she’s just in it to win
Granted this is from a eighteen year old, and I was stupid when I was eighteen, too. (I "held my nose" and voted for Al Gore at 19. AL GORE, GUYS. *facepalm*)
But feeling suspicious of Hillary... because she wants to win? Not only is it a misogynist dogwhistle, but also, the stupid, it burns.
Plus she says "I haven't seen any commercials with her policies!" Like, fucking google it? She has a very clearly articulated platform!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah. I feel like a lot of undecided/3rd party voters under 25 are expecting HRC to call them personally or something.
posted by zutalors! at 8:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 8:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
Gun store refuses to sell to Clinton supporters, Muslims because ‘we don’t support terrorists’
Chandler did acknowledge that he would have no way of knowing if a customer were Muslim unless they told him, and that he would be willing to sell to one if he were to “condemn the actions of these Muslims who are killing people.”posted by kirkaracha at 8:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
When ThinkProgress asked if other buyers are asked to condemn the violent actions of strangers, Chandler said he would have the same test for a Black Panther or a white supremacist. He did note that the fact that someone were wearing a swastika would not be enough for him to refuse a sale.
That our polity is structured so that we must pander to the stupidest, least engaged citizens every election cycle is kind of darkly hilarious. Literally the exact opposite of what anybody had in mind.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
“She will take one gun away and then she’ll take the next gun and the next gun until finally there’s no guns. So if you’re supporting her, I’m not going to arm you.”
Wouldn't arming us be one more gun making the march toward no guns longer?
Bro do you even gun bro?
posted by Rykey at 8:54 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
Wouldn't arming us be one more gun making the march toward no guns longer?
Bro do you even gun bro?
posted by Rykey at 8:54 AM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
I'm also fascinated by the number of Trump supporters in the article who are connecting voting for him to their life being sucky in general. (And not politically sucky, just like inconvenient the way everyone's life is kind of annoying when you get down to it.) Like Trump is personally going to get them taken off the night shift or keep their specific coal mine open.
Then again, I have been mocking Trump for making absurd campaign promises like that (I'm going to fix this one bridge in PA, etc), so it's clearly landing with his base.
Also OMG the "beach goy" is literally a jackbooted thug in his portrait
posted by Sara C. at 8:55 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Then again, I have been mocking Trump for making absurd campaign promises like that (I'm going to fix this one bridge in PA, etc), so it's clearly landing with his base.
Also OMG the "beach goy" is literally a jackbooted thug in his portrait
posted by Sara C. at 8:55 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mostly the stupidest, least engaged citizens just get ignored -- there's little point in reaching out to them because even if you do they probably still won't show up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:56 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:56 AM on October 28, 2016
In The Fix’s final list of top 10 Senate races, the edge goes to Democrats
If we factor in a likely Hillary Clinton presidency (which would mean Tim Kaine became the Senate president), Democrats would need to net four seats to take back the majority. They have a shot in five to seven.posted by kirkaracha at 8:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hillary Clinton, she’s not a racist or anything, like Donald Trump, but it seems like she’s just in it to win
I heard this from my own mom, too. I kind of wanted to ask her, so... should we now be discouraging our children from saying they want to be President when they grow up, or...? Are they supposed to stop saying it once they become adults? And stop acting like it? Next time we have a Presidential race it's just going to be two people going "Well, uh, elect me I guess? Maybe? I'm not sure I want the job, really. Do whatever you want."
As a woman who is and always has been nerdy and VERY ENTHUSIASTIC about the things I'm into, this attitude does not surprise me. The tightrope walk of having to dial back my desire and enthusiasm while not seeming too aloof has always been tough for me. Being all super GRARRRR YES THIS THING I WANT TO DO IT!!! on the one hand gets stares and everyone backs away slowly, but if I just try to play it cool all like "Yeah sure sounds okay, let me check my calendar", I get ignored and passed over for the thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [55 favorites]
I heard this from my own mom, too. I kind of wanted to ask her, so... should we now be discouraging our children from saying they want to be President when they grow up, or...? Are they supposed to stop saying it once they become adults? And stop acting like it? Next time we have a Presidential race it's just going to be two people going "Well, uh, elect me I guess? Maybe? I'm not sure I want the job, really. Do whatever you want."
As a woman who is and always has been nerdy and VERY ENTHUSIASTIC about the things I'm into, this attitude does not surprise me. The tightrope walk of having to dial back my desire and enthusiasm while not seeming too aloof has always been tough for me. Being all super GRARRRR YES THIS THING I WANT TO DO IT!!! on the one hand gets stares and everyone backs away slowly, but if I just try to play it cool all like "Yeah sure sounds okay, let me check my calendar", I get ignored and passed over for the thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [55 favorites]
I should also clarify that the "beach goy" is photographed on Hollywood Blvd nowhere near any beach. With the text alone I was definitely pegging him as one of those weird localist Orange County surfer types who are all like third generation Nazis.
posted by Sara C. at 8:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 8:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah. I feel like a lot of undecided/3rd party voters under 25 are expecting HRC to call them personally or something.
Goddamn whippersnappers have no idea that Obama is not the baseline standard of a good president. IF YOU KIDS HAD SUFFERED THROUGH GEORGE W BUSH YOU'D UNDERSTAND
Good god I am twenty-eight why do I feel so old and whithered
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [60 favorites]
Goddamn whippersnappers have no idea that Obama is not the baseline standard of a good president. IF YOU KIDS HAD SUFFERED THROUGH GEORGE W BUSH YOU'D UNDERSTAND
Good god I am twenty-eight why do I feel so old and whithered
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [60 favorites]
Orange County is one of the most horrifyingly racist places I've ever been. Though people were careful to say they didn't have a problem with people like me.
posted by zutalors! at 8:59 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 8:59 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
People love ready-made narratives like "Trump is successful" and "Hillary just wants to win at all costs." Rather than having to know the low-level details of a public figure's record, you can just subscribe to a narrative that's already been built from some mixture of actual facts, pundit class armchair psychoanalysis, and total bullshit cooked up by their political adversaries. Even Kate McKinnon's wonderful Clinton impression relies heavily on caricaturing her "I'll do anything to win" reputation, even if it's done so lovingly and tongue-in-cheek. For low-information voters who may have heard more words from "Hillary Clinton" than Hillary Clinton, this can be a serious problem.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
One thing that occurred to me recently is that we are living in an age where we have unprecedented access to information about our presidential candidates, and yet it doesn't seem to be helping much in terms of picking good ones. For most of this country's history there's been no internet, no TV, no radio, no air travel, no wire news services, no recorded sound, and nothing like the kind of rapid transportation network that we have now.
If you wanted to learn about the candidates you might read an article or two in your local newspaper (if you could read at all, and if you didn't like the editorial slant then too bad, because that's what was available) or if you were lucky enough to live near a major population center you might be able to make a trip to hear them make a stump speech, but basically everyone was perforce what we would nowadays refer to as a "low-information voter."
And yet, the historical record seems to show that we had about as good a track record back then as we do now. We picked a few excellent presidents, some good ones, a bunch of mediocre ones, and a few really crappy ones. Much like in modern times, in other words. We have much better access to information and presidential campaigns are much more sophisticated about getting their messages out, but it doesn't seem to have resulted in an increase in presidential quality.
It's still a crapshoot, essentially. I'm not sure what to make of that.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
If you wanted to learn about the candidates you might read an article or two in your local newspaper (if you could read at all, and if you didn't like the editorial slant then too bad, because that's what was available) or if you were lucky enough to live near a major population center you might be able to make a trip to hear them make a stump speech, but basically everyone was perforce what we would nowadays refer to as a "low-information voter."
And yet, the historical record seems to show that we had about as good a track record back then as we do now. We picked a few excellent presidents, some good ones, a bunch of mediocre ones, and a few really crappy ones. Much like in modern times, in other words. We have much better access to information and presidential campaigns are much more sophisticated about getting their messages out, but it doesn't seem to have resulted in an increase in presidential quality.
It's still a crapshoot, essentially. I'm not sure what to make of that.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Two bits (SAIT).
First, backed into a corner after the latest FEC report came out, Trump is promising to give $10M of his own money today to the campaign, but backs away from his promise to put a total of $100M in, saying only "we"ll see what's needed."
And please enjoy Comedian Gives Jesse Watters a Taste of His Own Medicine. Waters would be the Fox News guy who just did the incredibly racist segment in Chinatown.
posted by zachlipton at 9:04 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
First, backed into a corner after the latest FEC report came out, Trump is promising to give $10M of his own money today to the campaign, but backs away from his promise to put a total of $100M in, saying only "we"ll see what's needed."
And please enjoy Comedian Gives Jesse Watters a Taste of His Own Medicine. Waters would be the Fox News guy who just did the incredibly racist segment in Chinatown.
posted by zachlipton at 9:04 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump’s perception of black life seems to be about 30 years out of date
Elvis Presley's worst song is “In the Ghetto.” It's his worst song because 1) it is a deeply corny attempt to “raise awareness” about the plight of the inner city, and 2) it sucks. There's a long-standing and vibrant debate over the extent to which Elvis appropriated black culture to rise to fame (Public Enemy had some thoughts), but “In the Ghetto” is pretty direct. Centered on a poor black family in Chicago, Presley tells a tale of a young baby who grows up in poverty, turning to crime because he didn't get “a helping hand.” Eventually, he's shot and killed “on a cold and gray Chicago morn.”posted by kirkaracha at 9:04 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
It was a top-10 hit. And it sounds a lot like a Donald Trump campaign speech.
Goddamn whippersnappers have no idea that Obama is not the baseline standard of a good president. IF YOU KIDS HAD SUFFERED THROUGH GEORGE W BUSH YOU'D UNDERSTAND
I teach seniors in high school. I have a lot of sympathy for this year's bunch in terms of politics, as they are exactly at the same age that I was in 2000.
But their lack of collective memory about W always throws me for a loop. And I intellectually get that they were 2 when I was 18... but then they say something and I'm gobsmacked by how old I am at 33. Same goes for one of my closest friends who is 24.
Thankfully, they all seem to be pretty okay with Hillary. Though one did troll her fellow classmates and say, "If you don't stop that, I'm going to vote for Jill Stein."
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 9:04 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
I teach seniors in high school. I have a lot of sympathy for this year's bunch in terms of politics, as they are exactly at the same age that I was in 2000.
But their lack of collective memory about W always throws me for a loop. And I intellectually get that they were 2 when I was 18... but then they say something and I'm gobsmacked by how old I am at 33. Same goes for one of my closest friends who is 24.
Thankfully, they all seem to be pretty okay with Hillary. Though one did troll her fellow classmates and say, "If you don't stop that, I'm going to vote for Jill Stein."
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 9:04 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's still a crapshoot, essentially. I'm not sure what to make of that.
Part of that has to do with source density, I think. Like, you could only read a few paragraphs by the local paper, but that paper probably had pretty solid journalism going for it, and there was no equivalent of Infowars trying to drown out the sane reporting with "PEFFIDIOUʃ BRITISH MONARCHY REVEALS PLOT TO MINDWASH NORTHERN COLONIES"
posted by Mayor West at 9:06 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Part of that has to do with source density, I think. Like, you could only read a few paragraphs by the local paper, but that paper probably had pretty solid journalism going for it, and there was no equivalent of Infowars trying to drown out the sane reporting with "PEFFIDIOUʃ BRITISH MONARCHY REVEALS PLOT TO MINDWASH NORTHERN COLONIES"
posted by Mayor West at 9:06 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are you sure about that, West? I'm no historian, but from what little I do know, newspapers Back In The Day were even more nakedly partisan than they are now, by a large margin. Is that untrue?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2016
that paper probably had pretty solid journalism going for it
You vastly overestimate the nonfictional nature of most 19th century journalism.
posted by Sara C. at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
You vastly overestimate the nonfictional nature of most 19th century journalism.
posted by Sara C. at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
People do not make better decisions the more options they have. There's a pretty steep diminishing returns drop-off.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
The nice lady told us to go to the alley around back where they were doing curbside voting and said we could use that. We thought you had to have a handicapped plate or a note from your doctor to do that. So we had to wait about five minutes while sitting in the car and my wife doesn't have to spend the next day and a half in bed to recover. Thank you nice Board of Elections lady!
I filled out my absentee ballot today and was interested to learn that, if dropping it off or mailing it is a hardship for you, the clerk's office will send a staffer to your home to pick it up. I had no idea such a thing was possible.
posted by Orlop at 9:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I filled out my absentee ballot today and was interested to learn that, if dropping it off or mailing it is a hardship for you, the clerk's office will send a staffer to your home to pick it up. I had no idea such a thing was possible.
posted by Orlop at 9:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
You vastly overestimate the nonfictional nature of most 19th century journalism.
Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH SPAIN!
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH SPAIN!
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Follow the money. Trump’s Campaign Might Not be Winning, But His Hotels Sure Are
Donald Trump’s campaign may not be winning the presidential race, but it did a fine job this month of providing business to his hotels.posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump’s new hotel in Washington received $13,432, according to new Federal Election Commission filings late Thursday. His hotel in New York City received $18,014. And his hotel in Las Vegas was paid $79,044.
Ehhh, that's peanuts really. I mean, I get that it's kinda sleazy the way he's funneling campaign money to his businesses, but even 80 grand can't be much compared to the operating budget of a large luxury hotel.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:17 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:17 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Follow the money. Trump’s Campaign Might Not be Winning, But His Hotels Sure Are
But that just seems to be pissing in your pants to keep warm while in the Arctic - it makes no sense. They have an income now, but the Trump brand is becoming an embarrassment across the globe
posted by mumimor at 9:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
But that just seems to be pissing in your pants to keep warm while in the Arctic - it makes no sense. They have an income now, but the Trump brand is becoming an embarrassment across the globe
posted by mumimor at 9:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
13k and 18k in a month weren't remarkable for a cheap budget motel in the early 80s
this is chump change
posted by pyramid termite at 9:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
this is chump change
posted by pyramid termite at 9:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
> "They have an income now, but the Trump brand is becoming an embarrassment across the globe"
Trump's going to come out of this with a mailing list of 2 million suckers. He can use it himself or sell it to other con artists.
They aren't going to stay at his luxury hotels, but he's got plenty of experience scamming poorer people out of their dollars, too. It was the whole basis of Trump University.
posted by kyrademon at 9:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump's going to come out of this with a mailing list of 2 million suckers. He can use it himself or sell it to other con artists.
They aren't going to stay at his luxury hotels, but he's got plenty of experience scamming poorer people out of their dollars, too. It was the whole basis of Trump University.
posted by kyrademon at 9:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Follow the money. Trump’s Campaign Might Not be Winning, But His Hotels Sure Are
Yeah, this article from early August suggests that Trump hotel bookings dropped 60% in the first half of 2016. Sad!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, this article from early August suggests that Trump hotel bookings dropped 60% in the first half of 2016. Sad!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
chump == trump
posted by mazola at 9:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by mazola at 9:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
With Empty Rooms and Bookings Plummeting, Trump Hotels Are Taking a Beating
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:28 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:28 AM on October 28, 2016
"Marxchivist: The nice lady told us to go to the alley around back where they were doing curbside voting and said we could use that. We thought you had to have a handicapped plate or a note from your doctor to do that. So we had to wait about five minutes while sitting in the car and my wife doesn't have to spend the next day and a half in bed to recover. Thank you nice Board of Elections lady!
Orlop: I filled out my absentee ballot today and was interested to learn that, if dropping it off or mailing it is a hardship for you, the clerk's office will send a staffer to your home to pick it up. I had no idea such a thing was possible."
You know, sometimes you have to stop and just say, "thank you, public servants. Thank you to people who put the thought into designing public systems, and training staff to know about how systems work for a variety of citizens."
We hear so much about horrible mistakes in the public service, but sometimes you have to look at the massive operation that is government and just be awed at the way a project can be designed with citizens and their needs in mind.
posted by chapps at 9:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [28 favorites]
Orlop: I filled out my absentee ballot today and was interested to learn that, if dropping it off or mailing it is a hardship for you, the clerk's office will send a staffer to your home to pick it up. I had no idea such a thing was possible."
You know, sometimes you have to stop and just say, "thank you, public servants. Thank you to people who put the thought into designing public systems, and training staff to know about how systems work for a variety of citizens."
We hear so much about horrible mistakes in the public service, but sometimes you have to look at the massive operation that is government and just be awed at the way a project can be designed with citizens and their needs in mind.
posted by chapps at 9:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [28 favorites]
I teach seniors in high school. I have a lot of sympathy for this year's bunch in terms of politics, as they are exactly at the same age that I was in 2000.
But their lack of collective memory about W always throws me for a loop.
It's worth noting that the Republican Party also deleted the miserable failures of George W. Bush's presidency from its collective memory, deliberately. (I always thought of the Tea Party as a rebranding of the 27% of Republicans who always approved of Bush no matter how bad things got.)
How many times has Trump blamed Obama, Clinton and/or Democrats for W's policies, from the bank bailout to the mess in Iraq?
posted by Gelatin at 9:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
But their lack of collective memory about W always throws me for a loop.
It's worth noting that the Republican Party also deleted the miserable failures of George W. Bush's presidency from its collective memory, deliberately. (I always thought of the Tea Party as a rebranding of the 27% of Republicans who always approved of Bush no matter how bad things got.)
How many times has Trump blamed Obama, Clinton and/or Democrats for W's policies, from the bank bailout to the mess in Iraq?
posted by Gelatin at 9:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
I have notebooks filled with scrawled vote totals (? maybe ?), philosophical notes, and occasional exclamations to myself (CRACKPOTS! IDIOTS!) from the 2000 election. I kind of wish that record were a little more complete and detailed because I remember my thoughts on that election differently.
posted by zutalors! at 9:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zutalors! at 9:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nate Silver today:
Clearer signs now of a tighter race, as Trump has inched up to 21% in our polls-plus forecast (19% in polls-only)
He explains this in a follow-up tweet: "All of Trump's gains have come from Johnson -- who's down to an all-time low in our forecast -- and undecided. 53eig.ht/29vilkLI."
With Johnson utterly floundering and HRC's unfavorability raiting still above 50% (though improving), their change in the odds seems more reasonable.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Clearer signs now of a tighter race, as Trump has inched up to 21% in our polls-plus forecast (19% in polls-only)
He explains this in a follow-up tweet: "All of Trump's gains have come from Johnson -- who's down to an all-time low in our forecast -- and undecided. 53eig.ht/29vilkLI."
With Johnson utterly floundering and HRC's unfavorability raiting still above 50% (though improving), their change in the odds seems more reasonable.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
How many times has Trump blamed Obama, Clinton and/or Democrats for W's policies, from the bank bailout to the mess in Iraq?
One of the few advantages Trump has is that he's running under a national party banner while being completely unaccountable for that national party's previous decisions. You'd exepect him to push it.
posted by Talez at 9:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
One of the few advantages Trump has is that he's running under a national party banner while being completely unaccountable for that national party's previous decisions. You'd exepect him to push it.
posted by Talez at 9:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
chump == trump
Yeah, from here on out it's "Trump change"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, from here on out it's "Trump change"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I can't speak for anyone else, but living about as far away from Florida as you can in the continguous US, probably the main source of poor impressions I have about Patrick Murphy come from this CBS4 Miami piece from June. I don't know how fair the piece really is but it was pretty unforgiving.
Yeah, I hadn't seen that on FB (I'm up in northeast Florida), but it really does come across as a hit piece. For the longest time, I only saw Murphy tv ads and they were impressive. He says in plain language he supports unions, womens rights to choose abortion, medicaid expansion, public schools etc etc. Everything that makes a liberal/progressive heart beat faster. He doesn't sugar coat his platform, but he also doesn't come across as wacky/angry as Alan Grayson (which is why he won). Then right as Rubio began his ads up here, Murphy's got pulled so for several weeks all we saw were Rubio all day, every channel, every day.
Frankly, I don't care that his dad is rich and helped him out, or where he got his CPA license or his business history. He's absolutely even with lots and lots of R politicians in that regard, but where he isn't at all like them is how he will vote-and that he knows he'll be fighting an ugly uphill battle but is still choosing to stick his neck out.
posted by hollygoheavy at 9:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I hadn't seen that on FB (I'm up in northeast Florida), but it really does come across as a hit piece. For the longest time, I only saw Murphy tv ads and they were impressive. He says in plain language he supports unions, womens rights to choose abortion, medicaid expansion, public schools etc etc. Everything that makes a liberal/progressive heart beat faster. He doesn't sugar coat his platform, but he also doesn't come across as wacky/angry as Alan Grayson (which is why he won). Then right as Rubio began his ads up here, Murphy's got pulled so for several weeks all we saw were Rubio all day, every channel, every day.
Frankly, I don't care that his dad is rich and helped him out, or where he got his CPA license or his business history. He's absolutely even with lots and lots of R politicians in that regard, but where he isn't at all like them is how he will vote-and that he knows he'll be fighting an ugly uphill battle but is still choosing to stick his neck out.
posted by hollygoheavy at 9:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
"All of Trump's gains have come from Johnson -- who's down to an all-time low in our forecast -- and undecided. 53eig.ht/29vilkLI."
Can this erosion end up hurting HRC at the polls ultimately?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:50 AM on October 28, 2016
Can this erosion end up hurting HRC at the polls ultimately?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:50 AM on October 28, 2016
One of the few advantages Trump has is that he's running under a national party banner while being completely unaccountable for that national party's previous decisions. You'd exepect him to push it.
I expect that's why he's so invested in the "I was always opposed to Iraq War II" lie. Which he is pushing, just beyond the point of credibility.
posted by Gelatin at 9:52 AM on October 28, 2016
I expect that's why he's so invested in the "I was always opposed to Iraq War II" lie. Which he is pushing, just beyond the point of credibility.
posted by Gelatin at 9:52 AM on October 28, 2016
A story in which they (1) falsely claimed to be reprinting a foreign newspaper to lend an air of authenticity, (2) flatly made up MOON FACTS, (3) plagiarized substantially from Edgar Allen Poe. And up went circulation!
That's nothing. There's this guy 181 years later who would (1) falsely attribute statements to vague groups like "many people say," (2) flatly make up MOON LAW, (3) plagiarize substantially from the leading fascists of history. And up went poll numbers!
posted by zachlipton at 9:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's nothing. There's this guy 181 years later who would (1) falsely attribute statements to vague groups like "many people say," (2) flatly make up MOON LAW, (3) plagiarize substantially from the leading fascists of history. And up went poll numbers!
posted by zachlipton at 9:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
This ‘Conservative News Site’ Trended on Facebook, Showed Up on Fox News—and Duped the World
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Then he and that childhood friend, Mike, would post the website on his alt-right friends’ Facebook walls to prove how ridiculous they looked.Careful how you troll, kids.
That was it. That was the whole plan.
It’s two weeks before the election now and those documents have accrued millions of views across his website, the document drop site Scribd, and various social media accounts. They’ve appeared on cable news. They’ve trended on Facebook and Twitter. Two polling companies, barraged with hatemail from Trump supporters about “leaked” memos created for RealTrueNews articles, have had to put out official statements denying the existence of such memos. Chacon’s stories are regularly accepted as fact in the pro-Trump message board canon. YouTube videos with tens of thousands of views exist solely to reinforce sentences and ideas Chacon dreamed up on his laptop in the middle of the night.
How did this happen?
“I don’t know. I’m stunned,” said Chacon. “If you can, maybe call Monmouth (University polling) and see if they’d accept an apology.”
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The: "We have much better access to information and presidential campaigns are much more sophisticated about getting their messages out, but it doesn't seem to have resulted in an increase in presidential quality."
It's important to recognize that this "better access to information" doesn't happen in a vacuum. The same infrastructure that makes that information available also makes it easier to organize ourselves into communities of our own choosing, rather than the ad-hoc communities that arise simply from living in the same neighborhood as others or being related to people by blood or marriage.
The result of this is that it's easier than ever to tune out viewpoints that don't agree with one's own, and that's a far more powerful force than access to information — after all, it wasn't lack of access that was keeping us all from being scholars. I spend way more time in these threads commisserating with you fine folks than I do researching public policy — and, if we're honest, we spend far more time in these threads on gossipy Politico-type stuff than the stuff that will matter one year from now.
Another trend has been developing over the last generation, one which the internet only accelerated: our growing tendency to incorporate our politics into our self-conceptions. This means that there are fewer swing voters, and the ones that are left are either low-information voters or voters that choose based on ornery criteria. Consider how many people called themselves "Reagan Democrats" in 1984 and compare it to how much torture Republicans have had to go through to even consider casting a vote for Hillary Clinton.
The disillusionment that comes from a sudden realization about yourself is unpleasant, and people will contort themselves to avoid it. Consider the stories of LGBT folks who grew up in religious households and how long it took them to admit to themselves they were gay. Nobody likes to face a fact that is so threatening to their identity, their social order, and the way they approach the world. So the alternative is to double down. And doubling down, research shows, tends to reinforce the things you already believe. The belief isn't weaker for having been challenged; it's stronger for having been put to the test.
Hence we're in a feedback loop of sorts: many of the people who started calling themselves Tea Partiers eight years ago are the same ones who are openly talking about revolution right now. It's because they are hitting the snooze button, over and over again, on confronting their cognitive dissonance. And the internet allows them to unwittingly share rationalization strategies with one another. (This is why Hillary has been built up to be a veritable mob boss, though the crimes she's actually accused of disintegrate upon any examination.)
This is what Josh Marshall was talking about with his "technical debt" metaphor, only instead of debt inside the GOP party infrastructure it's a sort of intellectual/emotional debt that rank-and-file Republicans will eventually have to reckon with. In more naïve times I wondered what form it would take when frothing right-wingers suddenly realized that Obama was not a secret Marxist but was actually espousing middle-of-the-road ideas on the economy, on foreign policy, on health care. That realization has not yet come, of course. How exactly will it play out when it does happen? I don't know, but it's something that I've gradually grown less curious about and more fearful about.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
It's important to recognize that this "better access to information" doesn't happen in a vacuum. The same infrastructure that makes that information available also makes it easier to organize ourselves into communities of our own choosing, rather than the ad-hoc communities that arise simply from living in the same neighborhood as others or being related to people by blood or marriage.
The result of this is that it's easier than ever to tune out viewpoints that don't agree with one's own, and that's a far more powerful force than access to information — after all, it wasn't lack of access that was keeping us all from being scholars. I spend way more time in these threads commisserating with you fine folks than I do researching public policy — and, if we're honest, we spend far more time in these threads on gossipy Politico-type stuff than the stuff that will matter one year from now.
Another trend has been developing over the last generation, one which the internet only accelerated: our growing tendency to incorporate our politics into our self-conceptions. This means that there are fewer swing voters, and the ones that are left are either low-information voters or voters that choose based on ornery criteria. Consider how many people called themselves "Reagan Democrats" in 1984 and compare it to how much torture Republicans have had to go through to even consider casting a vote for Hillary Clinton.
The disillusionment that comes from a sudden realization about yourself is unpleasant, and people will contort themselves to avoid it. Consider the stories of LGBT folks who grew up in religious households and how long it took them to admit to themselves they were gay. Nobody likes to face a fact that is so threatening to their identity, their social order, and the way they approach the world. So the alternative is to double down. And doubling down, research shows, tends to reinforce the things you already believe. The belief isn't weaker for having been challenged; it's stronger for having been put to the test.
Hence we're in a feedback loop of sorts: many of the people who started calling themselves Tea Partiers eight years ago are the same ones who are openly talking about revolution right now. It's because they are hitting the snooze button, over and over again, on confronting their cognitive dissonance. And the internet allows them to unwittingly share rationalization strategies with one another. (This is why Hillary has been built up to be a veritable mob boss, though the crimes she's actually accused of disintegrate upon any examination.)
This is what Josh Marshall was talking about with his "technical debt" metaphor, only instead of debt inside the GOP party infrastructure it's a sort of intellectual/emotional debt that rank-and-file Republicans will eventually have to reckon with. In more naïve times I wondered what form it would take when frothing right-wingers suddenly realized that Obama was not a secret Marxist but was actually espousing middle-of-the-road ideas on the economy, on foreign policy, on health care. That realization has not yet come, of course. How exactly will it play out when it does happen? I don't know, but it's something that I've gradually grown less curious about and more fearful about.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Hillary Clinton Will Be the Next President of the United States
posted by tonycpsu at 10:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
(Snarky answer to the last bullet: "really white.")The most important point here is that 538 is just one model, and in this case it’s an outlier. Look at the other, similarly reliable models: Sam Wang’s PEC has it at 97%/99% Clinton, Upshot has at 91% Clinton, HuffPost 98%, DKos 95%. [...]
It’s worth noting that these models don’t know that Trump has an unusually terrible GOTV operation. He is far more likely to underperform the polls than to overperform them. This is particularly important since Clinton is using her profressional operation to bank her early advantage in North Carolina and Florida with early voting, and if Trump loses even one of those states, he’s drawing dead. And he’s going to lose both.
Which brings me to a final, related point: if you think Trump is going to win, what does his Electoral College map look like?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
So there's this. NBC News: FBI re-opening investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail server
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:05 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:05 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
A story in which they (1) falsely claimed to be reprinting a foreign newspaper to lend an air of authenticity
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
(2) flatly made up MOON FACTS,
No, really, George W. Bush lied about WMDs
...even if they had been totally cautious and careful in characterizing the intelligence, the war still would’ve been a catastrophic mistake that took an immense human toll. But the truth also matters, and the truth is that there were numerous occasions when Bush and his advisers made statements that intelligence agencies knew to be false, both about WMDs and about Saddam Hussein’s nonexistent links to al-Qaeda. The term commonly used for making statements that one knows to be false is "lying."
(3) plagiarized substantially from Edgar Allen Poe.
George W. Bush, Edgar Allan Poe, and the Use and Abuse of Presidential Signing Statements
So what does all of this have to do with Edgar Allan Poe? The answer lies in Poe's classic "Purloined Letter" (Poe 1845)...those seeking to get the goods on the minister had made two mistakes. The first was that they had underestimated the official with whom they were dealing, a serious but very common mistake. And because of the first error, they failed to consider "that the Minister had deposited the letter immediately beneath the nose of the whole world" (Poe 1845). The Bush administration has indeed hidden its bold political and legal actions in plain sight where few of its critics or opponents would see them.posted by kirkaracha at 10:07 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
It’s worth noting that these models don’t know that Trump has an unusually terrible GOTV operation. He is far more likely to underperform the polls than to overperform them.
Just for the record, 538's models do account for Trump underperforming his polls throughout the primaries, but they don't account for it as much as others' might because they hate primary polling generally.
posted by Etrigan at 10:08 AM on October 28, 2016
Just for the record, 538's models do account for Trump underperforming his polls throughout the primaries, but they don't account for it as much as others' might because they hate primary polling generally.
posted by Etrigan at 10:08 AM on October 28, 2016
FBI Dir Comey letter to congressional committee chairs re discovery of "new emails...pertinent to the investigation"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:09 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:09 AM on October 28, 2016
So there's this. NBC News: FBI re-opening investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail server
Fucking Christ.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:09 AM on October 28, 2016 [41 favorites]
Fucking Christ.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:09 AM on October 28, 2016 [41 favorites]
For fans of conspiracy theories and gibberish, I present Dr. Lance Wallnau, discussing the vast left-wing conspiracy against Christians and conservatives on Jim Bakker's show, because of course Jim Bakker has a show, how else would he sell buckets of food.
Nothing especially innovative here. The gist is that liberals are working with one another, and using donations from liberal donors (Soros!), to enact their preferred policies. That this somehow comes off as insidious and unprecedented is mostly due to Wallnau's emphasis on 527 organizations (numbers are scary! And since he never explains what 527s are, the listener is free to imagine any terrible thing they like.) and witchcraft, which liberals are using to cloud the minds of Christians/conservatives [YOUR JOKE HERE] and make them feel bad.
No, seriously:
Nothing especially innovative here. The gist is that liberals are working with one another, and using donations from liberal donors (Soros!), to enact their preferred policies. That this somehow comes off as insidious and unprecedented is mostly due to Wallnau's emphasis on 527 organizations (numbers are scary! And since he never explains what 527s are, the listener is free to imagine any terrible thing they like.) and witchcraft, which liberals are using to cloud the minds of Christians/conservatives [YOUR JOKE HERE] and make them feel bad.
No, seriously:
The web literally is coming down on America. And what’s sad is, how many Christians feel this fog on their head at times? Do you feel that? It’s almost like everything’s going wrong. We don’t realize it’s a remnant operating strategically through organizations that are intent on shifting the American culture and discipling the country. And that fog that’s on Christians is the collective witchcraft that comes over the Body of Christ because there’s spirits being authorized to be released.posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:10 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
“Wherever there’s agreement, there’s power. The more unbelievers agree with the narrative that they’re hearing, the more power and authorization Satan has to manifest. So unless the church has an exposure of what the enemy’s doing and begins to agree together with a counter-strategy, we’re going to deal with more and more fog. And the worst part is—we don’t have to surrender nations to the devil.
kyrademon: They aren't going to stay at his luxury hotels, but he's got plenty of experience scamming poorer people out of their dollars, too. It was the whole basis of Trump University.
These two things are not the same, at least in my eyes. People went to Trump University because of false claims that they could get good at business and stuff like Donald, while people go to hotels because they can't stay in a home, either while on vacation or due to being between other living situations. Sure, some people will be duped by up-sells in hotel accommodations, but that's not the same as being told "you can make more money if you pay for these classes now."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:14 AM on October 28, 2016
These two things are not the same, at least in my eyes. People went to Trump University because of false claims that they could get good at business and stuff like Donald, while people go to hotels because they can't stay in a home, either while on vacation or due to being between other living situations. Sure, some people will be duped by up-sells in hotel accommodations, but that's not the same as being told "you can make more money if you pay for these classes now."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:14 AM on October 28, 2016
The Tampa Bay Times wanted to do some "man on the street" type interviews on who people are voting for. And since it's Florida, what man (or woman) do you interview? Florida Man, of course. What Would Florida Man Do?
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
The lesson learned from talking to Florida Man: He’s not always who you assume. Sometimes, the charges have been dropped, and he has a pretty reasonable explanation for whatever it was he did. Sometimes he finds he’s become Florida Man simply by engaging in a form of valid social protest that lends itself to a sensational headline. Sometimes he’s polite, tragic, penitent, regretful, recovering. It’s messier than what can be captured in 140 characters.The article includes a man who decided to change his name to Bruce Jenner to "Preserve It’s 'Heterosexual Roots.'" He claims to be "very close and good friends" with Trump, speaking to him regularly.
In the end, a reporter was able to make contact with 11 Florida Men to ask who they endorse for president. Here are the results:
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
It surprised me when I learned that Comey is a Republican. After the way Louis Freeh behaved, I expected that Democrats would think twice before handing that much power over to a Republican again.
posted by Coventry at 10:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 10:19 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
The fact that Comey had to write to eight different committee chairmen (who are, in fact, all men) is a pretty good sign of how much energy Congress has devoted into investigating Clinton.
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Tampa Bay Times wanted to do some "man on the street" type interviews on who people are voting for. And since it's Florida, what man (or woman) do you interview? Florida Man, of course. What Would Florida Man Do?
Well, the Pulitzers can shut down for the year. Fahrenthold and the Tampa Bay Times sweep.
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, the Pulitzers can shut down for the year. Fahrenthold and the Tampa Bay Times sweep.
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
> "These two things are not the same, at least in my eyes."
Yes, that was my point.
posted by kyrademon at 10:24 AM on October 28, 2016
Yes, that was my point.
posted by kyrademon at 10:24 AM on October 28, 2016
Huh. Hillary has a 7 to 4 Florida Person advantage.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
So there's this. NBC News: FBI re-opening investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail server
You know, my sense of impending doom was just starting to fade away..... Damn.
posted by anastasiav at 10:31 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
You know, my sense of impending doom was just starting to fade away..... Damn.
posted by anastasiav at 10:31 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Accused ‘thug’ escorted out of Trump’s Kinston rally says he’s actually a supporter
posted by zachlipton at 10:34 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
Cary says he wanted to deliver a note to Trump urging him to be less offensive and more inclusive to four demographic groups: black people, women, people with disabilities and college students. Cary, an African-American, says he’s an ex-Marine who also worked in Afghanistan as a civilian for the U.S. Army.I'm not really sure why Cary thought that pushing his way to the front and trying to ask Trump to be less horrible would be an effective tactic (in fairness, nothing else has worked to make him less horrible, so why not try asking?), but calling your supporter a thug and having him thrown out continues not to be an effective minority outreach tactic.
He walked his way toward the front rows, stood about 20-30 feet from the stage and shouted “Donald” while waving his document to try to get Trump’s attention.
“He entirely mistook that and thought that I was a protester,” Cary said.
Trump’s response: “Were you paid $1,500 to be a thug?” Cary was escorted out.
In the third and final presidential debate, Trump said the Clinton campaign was paying protesters to disrupt his rallies.
Cary said he wasn’t there to protest Trump’s appearance. In fact, he said, he supports the Republican presidential nominee. He just wants to see Trump act more polite and welcoming to minorities.
posted by zachlipton at 10:34 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
If I never ever ever have to hear the word EMAILS!!1! again it'll still be too fucking soon AAARGGHHHHHHauuuughhhhhhh
posted by lydhre at 10:34 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 10:34 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
Does the FBI director have a term or serve at the pleasure of the President?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't worry about it, anastasiav. The email investigation will go on at least until Hillary Clinton finishes her second term. It's just a partisan make-work project to keep the base riled. The point isn't that they're likely to find anything substantive (they won't) it's that they can continue to say that Hillary is "under investigation." Which she has been for years now, and it's done them no real good. It's just part of the background radiation of her political career at this point.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
It surprised me when I learned that Comey is a Republican. After the way Louis Freeh behaved, I expected that Democrats would think twice before handing that much power over to a Republican again.
Also, Democrats nominating Republicans to high-profile DoJ positions or as Secretary of Defense tends to validate the Republican myth that they are "strong" on defense and crime.
posted by Gelatin at 10:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, Democrats nominating Republicans to high-profile DoJ positions or as Secretary of Defense tends to validate the Republican myth that they are "strong" on defense and crime.
posted by Gelatin at 10:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump’s response: “Were you paid $1,500 to be a thug?”
That's... oddly specific. Is it the Mirror in action?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's... oddly specific. Is it the Mirror in action?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's from the O'Keefe video.
posted by stolyarova at 10:38 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by stolyarova at 10:38 AM on October 28, 2016
Does the FBI director have a term or serve at the pleasure of the President?
The latter -- appointed by President, confirmed by Senate, just like Cabinet officials.
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
The latter -- appointed by President, confirmed by Senate, just like Cabinet officials.
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
$1500 is the number quoted in the James O'Keefe hoax interview, CHT. And we all know what Trump means when he refers to an African-American as a "thug."
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:39 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm willing to bet this latest round of the email saga is just more of the same. If there was something real to it they would've led with it. Given that, the outcome seems pretty predictable. Before the election, either the FBI releases another set of largely innocuous emails that might have a few bits of semi-scandalous content, or they don't, and either way, the end result is Trump and his surrogates ranting about the same thing they've been ranting about for months, with the same limited vocabulary.
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
From the NBC article:
It is unusual for the FBI to tell Congress it is looking over newly discovered evidence in a criminal inquiry that was otherwise closed.
No shit.
posted by zakur at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
It is unusual for the FBI to tell Congress it is looking over newly discovered evidence in a criminal inquiry that was otherwise closed.
No shit.
posted by zakur at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [18 favorites]
If I never ever ever have to hear the word EMAILS!!1! again it'll still be too fucking soon AAARGGHHHHHHauuuughhhhhhh
Every time I hear it raised I want to challenge the person bringing it up -- NPR, I'm looking at you, too -- to describe in 25 words what the problem's supposed to be, and none of those words can be "raises questions."
Same deal with the Clinton Foundation. "Donors may have requested, or hoped to receive, favors they didn't get" is concise and accurate, but not exactly Pulitzer material.
posted by Gelatin at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Every time I hear it raised I want to challenge the person bringing it up -- NPR, I'm looking at you, too -- to describe in 25 words what the problem's supposed to be, and none of those words can be "raises questions."
Same deal with the Clinton Foundation. "Donors may have requested, or hoped to receive, favors they didn't get" is concise and accurate, but not exactly Pulitzer material.
posted by Gelatin at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Well, I wouldn't say reopening the email investigation is increasing the pleasure of the President right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Comey is getting ahead of the "Why didn't you tell us?" questions. MY belief? more #nothingburgers
posted by mikelieman at 10:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 10:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can (will) HRC request Comey's resignation?
Not until she's President, and even then, that would be a real cause for rioting, I'd think.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not until she's President, and even then, that would be a real cause for rioting, I'd think.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think it's being reopened because of the "we are being attacked again" email that seems to indicate that the server was actively being targeted by hackers which was previously denied.
posted by I-baLL at 10:42 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by I-baLL at 10:42 AM on October 28, 2016
the "we are being attacked again" email
link?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
link?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Much as the vengeance-minded, wannabe ruthless queen in me wants Hillary to dump Comey, it'd be sketchy as hell and not a smart move.
posted by yasaman at 10:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 10:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can (will) HRC request Comey's resignation?
Can? Sure.
Will? Not a chance. Not officially, at least. There might be some person who knows a person on the transition team who casually mentions to a person in Comey's office that they went to college with that maybe Comey wants to retire, and it happens as part of a big batch of "Obama officials tender resignations, as is the usual process when an Administration changes, nothing to see here", and Republicans bitch about it for decades but nothing really ever comes of it.
posted by Etrigan at 10:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Can? Sure.
Will? Not a chance. Not officially, at least. There might be some person who knows a person on the transition team who casually mentions to a person in Comey's office that they went to college with that maybe Comey wants to retire, and it happens as part of a big batch of "Obama officials tender resignations, as is the usual process when an Administration changes, nothing to see here", and Republicans bitch about it for decades but nothing really ever comes of it.
posted by Etrigan at 10:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
For comparison, Comey refused to tell Congress if the FBI was investigating people in Trump's campaign in connection with the Russian hacks.
Comey, in testimony before the House Judiciary Committee this week, refused to confirm or deny if the bureau has taken Democrats up on their requests [to investigate the Trump/Russia issues], noting that as a matter of policy the FBI doesn’t comment on its own investigations.posted by melissasaurus at 10:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [58 favorites]
a matter of policy the FBI doesn’t comment on its own investigations
Except when it involves Clinton in which case ALL BETS ARE OFF.
posted by Talez at 10:47 AM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
Except when it involves Clinton in which case ALL BETS ARE OFF.
posted by Talez at 10:47 AM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
Do you really think so, r317? I'm not sure how Hillary could realistically keep an FBI director who is so openly antagonistic toward her. I mean, I get that the optics of firing someone who investigated you for…something, um, emails…what is this even supposed to be about anymore…anyway the optics are bad. But she presumably needs to have an FBI director she can work with, not one who has some kind of vendetta against her. He's not an elected official, he's a presidential appointee and part of the president's administration.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:48 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:48 AM on October 28, 2016
For comparison, Comey refused to tell Congress if the FBI was investigating people in Trump's campaign in connection with the Russian hacks.
I would never let you not let me protect the president.
*sigh*
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would never let you not let me protect the president.
*sigh*
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump's weird rally locations make no sense.
Years later someone will connect the dots between his rallies and a series of high-profile diamond heists.
posted by drezdn at 10:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [47 favorites]
Years later someone will connect the dots between his rallies and a series of high-profile diamond heists.
posted by drezdn at 10:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [47 favorites]
But she presumably needs to have an FBI director she can work with, not one who has some kind of vendetta against her.
This, and the basic issue of: Comey is wasting resources. So much time and money have been wasted, over decades, on nothingburgers. Time and money that weren't spent on other cases.
I'd for sure fire someone who was neglecting the basic requirements of their job, chasing nothingburgers.
posted by Dashy at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
This, and the basic issue of: Comey is wasting resources. So much time and money have been wasted, over decades, on nothingburgers. Time and money that weren't spent on other cases.
I'd for sure fire someone who was neglecting the basic requirements of their job, chasing nothingburgers.
posted by Dashy at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
My film rights for my last comment can be optioned at a very low price.
posted by drezdn at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm tempted to think that this is a chess move on Comey's part to make it more likely he can remain in charge of the FBI for longer than late January. Also, anyone who saw video of his announcement that the FBI would not file charges regarding the email server handling could see he was clearly unhappy about it.
It's also worth noting that while Comey was a Republican and supported GOP candidates in the last two Presidential elections, he is no longer registered as a member of the party (perhaps in response to his needing to handle election-year investigations of a Presidential candidate). I'm not suggesting his ideologies have changed, of course.
posted by aught at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's also worth noting that while Comey was a Republican and supported GOP candidates in the last two Presidential elections, he is no longer registered as a member of the party (perhaps in response to his needing to handle election-year investigations of a Presidential candidate). I'm not suggesting his ideologies have changed, of course.
posted by aught at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I do agree that if Hillary decides to get rid of Comey, she'll do it in the most low-profile, deniable way possible. Not that it won't be obvious what happened anyway to those who are paying attention, but if she plays it right she might be able to keep it out of the news for more than a cycle or two.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:53 AM on October 28, 2016
tonycpsu: I've seen it retweeted on Twitter. Here's the tweet.
posted by I-baLL at 10:54 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by I-baLL at 10:54 AM on October 28, 2016
She can't allow him to stay on no matter what the optics. He's sowing the grounds for her inevitable impeachment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:55 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:55 AM on October 28, 2016
Coney can easily be fired for wasting government resources. Get creative guys.
posted by Yowser at 10:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 10:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump calls one of his own black supporters a ‘thug’ and tosses him out of rally
Wow, so messed up in so many ways.
posted by dougzilla at 10:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wow, so messed up in so many ways.
posted by dougzilla at 10:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure how Hillary could realistically keep an FBI director who is so openly antagonistic toward her.
He seems to have reached the same conclusion and is doubling down to improve his cred.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
He seems to have reached the same conclusion and is doubling down to improve his cred.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:56 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
her inevitable impeachment
Oh shit, that's going to happen, isn't it? I don't know what it'll be over, but they'll find a way. My blood pressure is already climbing.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh shit, that's going to happen, isn't it? I don't know what it'll be over, but they'll find a way. My blood pressure is already climbing.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump's weird rally locations make no sense.
Years later someone will connect the dots between his rallies and a series of high profile diamond heists.
I was thinking something more like the character in Auster's City of Glass, but with Trump's travels spelling out the letters "N-O-P-U-P-P-E-T-Y-O-U-R-E-T-H-E-P-U-P-P-E-T" on the map of America.
posted by aught at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Years later someone will connect the dots between his rallies and a series of high profile diamond heists.
I was thinking something more like the character in Auster's City of Glass, but with Trump's travels spelling out the letters "N-O-P-U-P-P-E-T-Y-O-U-R-E-T-H-E-P-U-P-P-E-T" on the map of America.
posted by aught at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also, It's amazing how often "it would be tone-deaf and look terrible for Clinton to make this personnel move" turns into "I can't believe she made exactly that personnel move."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016
The time to get rid of him would be the next time there's any sort of FBI scandal, no matter how minor.
posted by drezdn at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 10:57 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't know what it'll be over, but they'll find a way.
You'd think the Republicans would remember what happened when they impeached Clinton.
posted by drezdn at 10:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
You'd think the Republicans would remember what happened when they impeached Clinton.
posted by drezdn at 10:58 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
The time to get rid of him would be the next time there's any sort of FBI scandal, no matter how minor.
Making mountains out of molehills IOKIYAR, not when you're a D.
posted by Talez at 10:59 AM on October 28, 2016
Making mountains out of molehills IOKIYAR, not when you're a D.
posted by Talez at 10:59 AM on October 28, 2016
Hell, the whole reason IOKIYAR exists is because Rs are more than willing to be intellectually dishonest or deliberately obtuse.
posted by Talez at 11:00 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 11:00 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Nah, when you're a Republican it's evidence that Democrats used witchcraft to turn the mountain everybody knew was there into a molehill.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:01 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:01 AM on October 28, 2016
Mayor West: "Betsy McCaughey accuses Trump-accusers of "man-shaming" the candidate [real. oh god why is it real?]"
Yes, the Vagenda of Manocide is going precisely according to plan. *tents fingers*
posted by krinklyfig at 11:01 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yes, the Vagenda of Manocide is going precisely according to plan. *tents fingers*
posted by krinklyfig at 11:01 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump treats the fact that Clinton wasn't indicted as a personal affront and has said he'd be investigating Comey, with some mafioso phrase like "I'll see about taking care of that", so it's not like his options are all that good if Hillary loses.
posted by peeedro at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by peeedro at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2016
@jpodhoretz
"Dear Jack, In searching for the hatch we have found a polar bear of unknown origin and will be examining it, Signed James Comey"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
"Dear Jack, In searching for the hatch we have found a polar bear of unknown origin and will be examining it, Signed James Comey"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
He's sowing the grounds for her inevitable impeachment.
Since it's unlikely Democrats will win the House, this is very likely to happen in any case. (Not to agitate any anxious MeFites farther, but the political madness is not going to end when Clinton is elected, just shift into a new phase.)
You'd think the Republicans would remember what happened when they impeached Clinton.
The last couple of decades would suggest that's unlikely. Lots of knee-jerk lashing out, not a lot of learning from past mistakes.
posted by aught at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Since it's unlikely Democrats will win the House, this is very likely to happen in any case. (Not to agitate any anxious MeFites farther, but the political madness is not going to end when Clinton is elected, just shift into a new phase.)
You'd think the Republicans would remember what happened when they impeached Clinton.
The last couple of decades would suggest that's unlikely. Lots of knee-jerk lashing out, not a lot of learning from past mistakes.
posted by aught at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Since it's unlikely Democrats will win the House, this is very likely to happen in any case.
Yes, but she doesn't need a mole in charge of the FBI helping them do it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:04 AM on October 28, 2016
Yes, but she doesn't need a mole in charge of the FBI helping them do it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:04 AM on October 28, 2016
The most likely explanation for "we were attacked again" is a DDoS attack, which could be mildly interesting if there was any reason to believe the Clinton server was specifically targeted by someone who knew what they were doing, but is utterly nothing if it's just random net spam.
That email wasn't from wikileaks though, it was released by State, which means the FBI should have had it all along during their investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
That email wasn't from wikileaks though, it was released by State, which means the FBI should have had it all along during their investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yes, the Vagenda of Manocide is going precisely according to plan. *tents fingers*
The Vagenda of Manocide is my fantasy football team. We are, alas, 2-5, so the plan is working less well than one would hope.
posted by palindromic at 11:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Vagenda of Manocide is my fantasy football team. We are, alas, 2-5, so the plan is working less well than one would hope.
posted by palindromic at 11:08 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
"That email wasn't from wikileaks though, it was released by State, which means the FBI should have had it all along during their investigation."
Ah, that explains why it seems like a photo. Any idea of where to find it online as opposed to a random twitter photo?
Oh, and for those who are wondering about Comey's original statement about the conclusion of the investigation, it seems to be here.
posted by I-baLL at 11:10 AM on October 28, 2016
Ah, that explains why it seems like a photo. Any idea of where to find it online as opposed to a random twitter photo?
Oh, and for those who are wondering about Comey's original statement about the conclusion of the investigation, it seems to be here.
posted by I-baLL at 11:10 AM on October 28, 2016
Yeah, the fact that the right (in this case, a Free Beacon reporter and former Heritage Foundation flunky, is latching onto email threads that we've known about for months is not the kind of thing you reopen an FBI investigation for.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:10 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:10 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
MORE: FBI investigation into Clinton's private email server was never officially closed, law enforcement sources tell @jeffpeguescbs.
Wat
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wat
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Clinton is going campaign in Phoenix, Arizona on Wednesday November 2nd. They're really going for it.
posted by chris24 at 11:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 11:12 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I just signed up to do two election protection shifts through the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law - one hotline shift, one field shift. I feel kind of nervous about it because it's so important. Anyway, hopefully we won't see any voter intimidation efforts in NYC where I am, but JUST TRY IT BUDDY NOT ON MY WATCH
posted by prefpara at 11:15 AM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 11:15 AM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
*screams into pillow*
*lights hair on fire*
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That's about where my psyche is right now.
posted by sallybrown at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2016 [24 favorites]
*lights hair on fire*
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That's about where my psyche is right now.
posted by sallybrown at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2016 [24 favorites]
Eichenwald is zeroing in on an interesting point here I think (yeah, I'm tired of him too). Read Comey's letter carefully. It's "in previous congressional testimony," I told you the investigation was completed. Now, "I am writing to supplement my previous testimony." This can be an explanation for why Comey wrote the letter in the first place and why he did so right this minute: he doesn't want to be accused of misleading Congress. The other side that the letter is basically intentionally misleading to the public, who doesn't see that nuance. It's been reported as "the FBI reopened the investigation" when it doesn't actually say that directly. It says that emails came up in a different case that "appear to be pertinent," but they may or may not be significant.
It's splitting hairs to a large extent, but I think it explains a bit of the reason why "the FBI doesn’t comment on its own investigations" wasn't followed here. But, if Comey wanted to avoid misleading the public and raising the JCPL, there are certainly ways he could have done that, and he made no such effort.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
It's splitting hairs to a large extent, but I think it explains a bit of the reason why "the FBI doesn’t comment on its own investigations" wasn't followed here. But, if Comey wanted to avoid misleading the public and raising the JCPL, there are certainly ways he could have done that, and he made no such effort.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
I was beginning to relax - not tempting fate, mind you, but not in a constant state of panic. I don't even know what to do with this FBI news. For better or worse I am going to cottage country for a retreat this weekend where there will be limited internet access. I'm not sure if that will make it better or worse.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
This woman says "Hillary Clinton has got to go" to jail. "Maybe we're sick puppies" she tells me of her voodo doll w/ needles in HRC face--@NoahGrayCNN
There's a photo. And I do believe she has accurately diagnosed herself, yes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you want to see something amazing, check out these buffalo standing with the indigenous protestors
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
A BUNCH OF YOU DIDN'T HEED THE WRATH OF THE WHATEVER FROM HIGH ATOP THE THING AND NOW WE'RE ALL GOING OUTSIDE TO TURN AROUND, SPIT AND CURSE GODDAMMIT
posted by numaner at 11:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [54 favorites]
posted by numaner at 11:21 AM on October 28, 2016 [54 favorites]
In terms of news cycles "Clinton Email Saga: Part 156,704,586" might be less damaging to Clinton's turnout numbers than "Clinton Issues Milquetoast Statement on DAPL."
I voted on Tuesday afternoon, and thought that would relieve some anxiety, but this has felt like the longest two and a half days of my life. I'm grasping at all the straws I can find.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:22 AM on October 28, 2016
I voted on Tuesday afternoon, and thought that would relieve some anxiety, but this has felt like the longest two and a half days of my life. I'm grasping at all the straws I can find.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:22 AM on October 28, 2016
I've lost my voice through having a nasty cold, so I haven't been making any chase calls to Texas this week. I was starting to think I might not need to, because the tide was so clearly turning, but then I just had to turn off MSNBC because Trump was gloating about the new email inquiry.
Please can someone try to talk us all down from this latest news?
posted by vickyverky at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2016
Please can someone try to talk us all down from this latest news?
posted by vickyverky at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2016
I read that as "TURN AROUND, SHIT AND CURSE" and it felt rather accurate.
Anyway, good to have you back our old friend performative despair. Hope you had a nice little vacation.
posted by zachlipton at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Anyway, good to have you back our old friend performative despair. Hope you had a nice little vacation.
posted by zachlipton at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sam Steinposted by stolyarova at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
@samsteinhp
Pete Williams has sources saying not about Clinton world w/holding emails. Not about Podesta emails. Not emails from Clinton.
I'm still pretty confident in the Presidential race, but the idea that we could be looking at two years of attempted impeachments even after we put the Orange Menace to pasture is really disturbing my calm.
posted by Mooski at 11:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mooski at 11:25 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
More Sam Stein: Pete Williams sources say in course of a separate investigation, FBI came across "a device." found emails there. but emails NOT from HRC (link)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pete Williams has sources saying not about Clinton world w/holding emails. Not about Podesta emails. Not emails from Clinton.
Even for Twitter that's a little...unintelligible.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
Even for Twitter that's a little...unintelligible.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
Human Rights Campaign Maintains Endorsement of Sen. Mark Kirk After Racist Comment
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
FBI: We're investigating something. You get 20 questions to try to figure it out. Also, all of our investigations are conducted using our patented "I Spy with My Little Eye" technique. Next year, we will invest in a pilot program called "Peek-a-Boo" which works with momentary sensory deprivation.
[fake, I think]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
[fake, I think]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
Seth: Trump and the GOP Crack-Up: A Closer Look
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's shitty that everybody's reliant on Pete Williams (who does indeed have excellent sources) to read the smoke signals coming from Comey's smoke generator.
posted by holgate at 11:29 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by holgate at 11:29 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Human Rights Campaign Maintains Endorsement of Sen. Mark Kirk After Racist Comment
I genuinely don't get it. I mean, I guess endorsing Republicans who aren't straight-up hateful against their primary mission makes sense in a vacuum, but do they really think that Duckworth will be worse?
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
I genuinely don't get it. I mean, I guess endorsing Republicans who aren't straight-up hateful against their primary mission makes sense in a vacuum, but do they really think that Duckworth will be worse?
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you want to see something amazing, check out these buffalo standing with the indigenous protestors
Captain Planet ain't coming. If you're counting on him, pack it in.
I can't decide if it's Looten Plunder or Hoggish Greedly that's running on the Republican ticket, Verminous Skumm just missed that nomination by a bit, and I'm pretty sure Rigger is Majority Leader in the Senate. *
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:31 AM on October 28, 2016
Captain Planet ain't coming. If you're counting on him, pack it in.
I can't decide if it's Looten Plunder or Hoggish Greedly that's running on the Republican ticket, Verminous Skumm just missed that nomination by a bit, and I'm pretty sure Rigger is Majority Leader in the Senate. *
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:31 AM on October 28, 2016
Can this erosion [in Gary Johnson's support] end up hurting HRC at the polls ultimately?
It could, and arguably already has (a little, hence the 2% shift in Nate Silver's numbers).
But keep in mind that Johnson supporters were already unwilling to support Trump, who has basically checked out of this presidential race to focus on his next step (TV network or whatever). Trump is repeatedly making moves to cement his hard core at the expense of winning over moderates and undecideds, so he's much more likely to alienate this reluctant Johnson supporters than to attract them.
I'd say that by far the most likely scenario is that these people end up not voting at all.
posted by msalt at 11:33 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
It could, and arguably already has (a little, hence the 2% shift in Nate Silver's numbers).
But keep in mind that Johnson supporters were already unwilling to support Trump, who has basically checked out of this presidential race to focus on his next step (TV network or whatever). Trump is repeatedly making moves to cement his hard core at the expense of winning over moderates and undecideds, so he's much more likely to alienate this reluctant Johnson supporters than to attract them.
I'd say that by far the most likely scenario is that these people end up not voting at all.
posted by msalt at 11:33 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
You know it's a pretty shitty partisan move when even a Republican senator is saying wtf is Comey doing.
@JohnCornyn
Why is FBI doing this just 11 days before the election?
posted by chris24 at 11:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [34 favorites]
@JohnCornyn
Why is FBI doing this just 11 days before the election?
posted by chris24 at 11:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [34 favorites]
So it looks like another nothing story with this very vague "device" containing emails that may or may not be related to the investigation of HRC. I guess it remains to be seen how this will play over the weekend, but it does seem like a transparently political move from Comey.
posted by codacorolla at 11:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 11:35 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
HRC has a bigger lead in two way polls. Don't sweat the third parties.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:36 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've been following the email story for a while now and this is what I've figured out.
1) Clinton had some sort of scandal with Ben Gazzara.
2) She started several emails with Wazzup?
3) She pressed the "Send All" button so that a recipe for succotash pie that was intended for Angela Merkel was communicated to North Korea who may or may not have responded with a donation to The Clinton Foundation.
4) Several emails may have involved anagrams.
5) Clinton did not secure her ISP using configuration 12.2 of the Protocols of Yves San Saint or else she did and she used backslashes instead of forward slashes on her http.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
1) Clinton had some sort of scandal with Ben Gazzara.
2) She started several emails with Wazzup?
3) She pressed the "Send All" button so that a recipe for succotash pie that was intended for Angela Merkel was communicated to North Korea who may or may not have responded with a donation to The Clinton Foundation.
4) Several emails may have involved anagrams.
5) Clinton did not secure her ISP using configuration 12.2 of the Protocols of Yves San Saint or else she did and she used backslashes instead of forward slashes on her http.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:37 AM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
The more I hear, the more my gut says this is a CYA move from Comey. Did someone at the Bureau miss a device or emails that should have been looked at more closely earlier?
posted by sallybrown at 11:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 11:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is where I point out: The FBI's 9/11 investigation is still open and they *just* closed the D.B. Cooper one
posted by Etrigan at 11:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [35 favorites]
Re: Comey and the investigation of newly-discovered emails
I think deep breaths are in order here. He may well be hedging his political future, both making it harder for Clinton to fire him, and less likely that Trump would go after him if he somehow wins.
But despite his partisan leanings, Comey has a pretty good track record of acting fairly. He stood up to Alberto Gonzales' attempt to ram extra-illegal surveillance through on Ashcroft's sickbed, and concluded there was no illegality in Hillary's emails in the first place.
If he wanted to sabotage her campaign, all he had to do was announce that the FBI was investigating whether charges were warranted, and then do not a goddman thing until November 9th. It would have crippled her campaign.
So I'm not worried that this is some sort of backdoor effort to justify impeachment. Nothing in his career suggest he would gin up prosecution for a non-crime. He has to fully investigate new emails if they were found, anything less would not be doing his job.
posted by msalt at 11:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think deep breaths are in order here. He may well be hedging his political future, both making it harder for Clinton to fire him, and less likely that Trump would go after him if he somehow wins.
But despite his partisan leanings, Comey has a pretty good track record of acting fairly. He stood up to Alberto Gonzales' attempt to ram extra-illegal surveillance through on Ashcroft's sickbed, and concluded there was no illegality in Hillary's emails in the first place.
If he wanted to sabotage her campaign, all he had to do was announce that the FBI was investigating whether charges were warranted, and then do not a goddman thing until November 9th. It would have crippled her campaign.
So I'm not worried that this is some sort of backdoor effort to justify impeachment. Nothing in his career suggest he would gin up prosecution for a non-crime. He has to fully investigate new emails if they were found, anything less would not be doing his job.
posted by msalt at 11:40 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Republicans, keep fuckin' that e-chicken.
posted by delfin at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by delfin at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
You know it's a pretty shitty partisan move when even a Republican senator is saying wtf is Comey doing.
@JohnCornyn
Why is FBI doing this just 11 days before the election?
I interpret this as a rhetorical tactic meant to incite wild speculation about the "really bad stuff the FBI must be about to reveal about Clinton".
Especially in light of his previous tweet:
Why would FBI reopen Hillary investigation unless there is evidence of more than "extreme carelessness" in handling classified information?
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
@JohnCornyn
Why is FBI doing this just 11 days before the election?
I interpret this as a rhetorical tactic meant to incite wild speculation about the "really bad stuff the FBI must be about to reveal about Clinton".
Especially in light of his previous tweet:
Why would FBI reopen Hillary investigation unless there is evidence of more than "extreme carelessness" in handling classified information?
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's shitty that everybody's reliant on Pete Williams (who does indeed have excellent sources) to read the smoke signals coming from Comey's smoke generator.
The problem is that if you run a smoke generator in a crowded building full of twitchy people, you have to know they're going to pull the fire alarm and panic.
I think the simplest explanation is that Comey satisfied his basic obligation to notify Congress about a matter he recently testified about, and he utterly failed to care that, in so doing, he was launching a live grenade into the last days of an election.
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
The problem is that if you run a smoke generator in a crowded building full of twitchy people, you have to know they're going to pull the fire alarm and panic.
I think the simplest explanation is that Comey satisfied his basic obligation to notify Congress about a matter he recently testified about, and he utterly failed to care that, in so doing, he was launching a live grenade into the last days of an election.
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Just got polled on my cellphone by a group called something like "ENT research". They only asked two questions, and they knew who I was and that I had already voted (those records are open here in NV I believe). 1) who'd you vote for for POTUS, and 2) who did you vote for for our local state senator. Curious that they didn't ask about U.S. Senate or anything like that.
I'm guessing this is some sort of internal poll for the state senate race? Otherwise you'd think they'd ask about more stuff after going through the trouble of getting a live voter on the line.
posted by skewed at 11:42 AM on October 28, 2016
I'm guessing this is some sort of internal poll for the state senate race? Otherwise you'd think they'd ask about more stuff after going through the trouble of getting a live voter on the line.
posted by skewed at 11:42 AM on October 28, 2016
I watched my former countrypeople give that hateful little shrew, Tony Abbott, the post of Prime Minister of Australia.
If my current countrypeople give Trump the presidency I'm not sure what's left to believe in.
posted by Talez at 11:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
If my current countrypeople give Trump the presidency I'm not sure what's left to believe in.
posted by Talez at 11:43 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Pete Williams has sources saying not about Clinton world w/holding emails. Not about Podesta emails. Not emails from Clinton.
Could it be that an outsider tried to hack her server by sending a virus or something similar in an email attachment?
posted by zarq at 11:43 AM on October 28, 2016
Could it be that an outsider tried to hack her server by sending a virus or something similar in an email attachment?
posted by zarq at 11:43 AM on October 28, 2016
Dave Itzkoff:
BREAKING NEWS: YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE
(10,000 RTs later)
Clarification: we meant in the teleological sense, that all of us eventually die
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
BREAKING NEWS: YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE
(10,000 RTs later)
Clarification: we meant in the teleological sense, that all of us eventually die
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
Could it be that an outsider tried to hack her server by sending a virus or something similar in an email attachment?
Or they found a hacker's saved copies of someone's emails.
posted by drezdn at 11:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Or they found a hacker's saved copies of someone's emails.
posted by drezdn at 11:45 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pete Williams also pointed out that as a technical matter (the best kind of matter), the FBI's investigation was never officially closed, so there is nothing to reopen now.
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
@NowAndrewDC
@joshtpm In case anyone is curious what the markets think of even a small increase in likelihood Trump gets elected... [chart]
posted by chris24 at 11:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
@joshtpm In case anyone is curious what the markets think of even a small increase in likelihood Trump gets elected... [chart]
posted by chris24 at 11:46 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well played on the part of Chaffetz in defining the narrative so quickly. Comey should have known to expect that the House Rs would jump all over any communication unless he went to considerable effort to prevent it from getting spun, and threaded the needle just well enough that we can't call it nakedly partisan while still giving the House Rs a nice bullhorn.
I doubt it will hurt Clinton in the general, but this sound and fury has a really good chance to put the kibosh on a fragile D House takeover, and maybe hurt their chances in the Senate as well. THAT part, I'm not so sure it's an accident on Comey's part.
posted by tclark at 11:47 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I doubt it will hurt Clinton in the general, but this sound and fury has a really good chance to put the kibosh on a fragile D House takeover, and maybe hurt their chances in the Senate as well. THAT part, I'm not so sure it's an accident on Comey's part.
posted by tclark at 11:47 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
God, this new e-mail re-hash makes me ill.* Sometimes one does wish for some Captain America type-of-dude to just sort it all out in the next 1 1/2 hours and be done with it. Accompanied by the appropriate music.
* Yeah, no, I won't puke right yet, my whole desk is piled full with difficult-to-get-by books about Beethoven [true]
posted by Namlit at 11:47 AM on October 28, 2016
* Yeah, no, I won't puke right yet, my whole desk is piled full with difficult-to-get-by books about Beethoven [true]
posted by Namlit at 11:47 AM on October 28, 2016
In re this latest "omg email case reopened" and also the above-linked "House Republicans are already preparing for ‘years’ of investigations of Clinton": How is any actual governing ever going to happen again? This is just so dispiriting.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:48 AM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Maybe Comey released this to distract from the massive fuck-up of the Oregon standoff case.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
In case you're wondering what the FBI Director sending vague smoke signals into the tail end of an election looks like, just ask the stock market indices.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016
This is where I point out: The FBI's 9/11 investigation is still open and they *just* closed the D.B. Cooper one
Wait a second.
The Clinton email fall guy's name is Justin Cooper.
Those dastardly Clintons!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Wait a second.
The Clinton email fall guy's name is Justin Cooper.
Those dastardly Clintons!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
maybe they figured out how to neutralize the acid washed emails by soaking hrc's blackberry in a baking soda solution
posted by ryanrs at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Betsy McCaughey accuses Trump-accusers of "man-shaming" the candidate
No, that's me, mocking him for going to a furniture store rather than making the furniture himself.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, that's me, mocking him for going to a furniture store rather than making the furniture himself.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:50 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Consider that Cap's solution to corruption/evil in a government agency was "BURN IT ALL DOWN, TOO MANY NAZIS, SOME OF WHOM HURT MY PRECIOUS, PRECIOUS BFF."
Anyway, I would definitely still love to see Cap punch Trump, followed by Kamala Khan delivering the knockout blow. That, perhaps, is one of the only things that could heal the psychic wounds of this election for me. Also, day 2491050: still wishing I could join Bucky Barnes in sweet, sweet cryostasis until this hell election is over.
posted by yasaman at 11:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Anyway, I would definitely still love to see Cap punch Trump, followed by Kamala Khan delivering the knockout blow. That, perhaps, is one of the only things that could heal the psychic wounds of this election for me. Also, day 2491050: still wishing I could join Bucky Barnes in sweet, sweet cryostasis until this hell election is over.
posted by yasaman at 11:53 AM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just got polled on my cellphone by a group called something like "ENT research". ... I'm guessing this is some sort of internal poll for the state senate race?
Sounds like Orc mischief to me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:59 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sounds like Orc mischief to me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:59 AM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Per yasaman's Marvel-based analysis, I hold out great hope for the political future of Doreen Green. Unbeatable.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:01 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:01 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
If this letter was, indeed, submitted in good faith by Comey and has simply been misinterpreted (in bad faith) by Chaffetz and the GOP and misreported by the press, does it not behoove Comey to hold a press conference post haste in order to clarify the matter?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:01 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:01 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
does it not behoove Comey to hold a press conference post haste in order to clarify the matter?
Depends on where he thinks his bread's buttered.
posted by Mooski at 12:02 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Depends on where he thinks his bread's buttered.
posted by Mooski at 12:02 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
FYI (in case you want to escape the EMAILS): Nancy Pelosi and a number of other women leaders are speaking at the TED Women conference right now. Emily Lindin (founder of the unslut project) is liveblogging. Some highlights:
---"When President Washington left office, he warned against political parties that were at odds with the government." -@NancyPelosi
---"Men said, 'Who said SHE could run?' ... Poor babies." - @NancyPelosi
---"It would be an understatement to say I had to work extremely hard to get a seat at the table." - @HallaTomas
posted by melissasaurus at 12:03 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
---"When President Washington left office, he warned against political parties that were at odds with the government." -@NancyPelosi
---"Men said, 'Who said SHE could run?' ... Poor babies." - @NancyPelosi
---"It would be an understatement to say I had to work extremely hard to get a seat at the table." - @HallaTomas
posted by melissasaurus at 12:03 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jared Yates Sexton @JYSextonposted by Talez at 12:04 PM on October 28, 2016 [54 favorites]
All right. Here's what's happening in this E-mail situation, from what I can surmise. Hold on. This is stupid. 1/
Comey has a duty to report anything new to committees. It's a requirement that he keep them abreast. 2/
There's a device that's been found. The E-mails are apparently not from HRC. They may have NOTHING to do with her, or they might 3/
Either way, he's forced to keep committees up to date. GOP saw this update as an opportunity to harm HRC and influence down ballot 4/
GOP knew media is currently starving for a story as Trump isn't competitive anymore. They found a story that will get hits/sell ads 5/
Meanwhile, something that might not have anything to do with HRC will follow her into office and continue concealing narrative 6/
It's not going to cost election. It might be absolutely nothing. But it's a headline people will click and retweet 7/7
I'm keeping myself calm by remembering that the last time the FBI said "oh hey we found some more emails that may or may not be new information about Benghazi" a week or so later it turned out that only one of them was actually new and it was a letter from a diplomat congratulating Clinton on how well she did during the Congressional hearings. So I'm hoping today's (intentionally) ominous sounding announcement turns out to be the same nothingburger.
Problem is, it's too late. Trump and his cronies will be yelling about this for the next week and a half.
posted by dnash at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Problem is, it's too late. Trump and his cronies will be yelling about this for the next week and a half.
posted by dnash at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can (will) HRC request Comey's resignation?
Just to add to previous comments, there are lots of other ways to fuck with an agency you don't like. Jan 21: I'm pleased to announce a pilot energy efficiency program beginning with the FBI. Have fun turning your thermostats to 82 in summer and 58 in winter. Or, if he weren't so dead, just sacrifice the FBI to Senator Byrd and make all those fuckers move far enough into WV to be out of commuting range from DC suburbs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:06 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Just to add to previous comments, there are lots of other ways to fuck with an agency you don't like. Jan 21: I'm pleased to announce a pilot energy efficiency program beginning with the FBI. Have fun turning your thermostats to 82 in summer and 58 in winter. Or, if he weren't so dead, just sacrifice the FBI to Senator Byrd and make all those fuckers move far enough into WV to be out of commuting range from DC suburbs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:06 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
> jury found 7 occupiers not guilty of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge.
The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing.
Charles Pierce: When You're a Protester, the Color of Your Skin Is All That Matters: The difference between Oregon and North Dakota.
posted by homunculus at 12:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
The fact that this verdict came down at the same time there's violent military and police action against the NoDAPL water protectors is rage-inducing.
Charles Pierce: When You're a Protester, the Color of Your Skin Is All That Matters: The difference between Oregon and North Dakota.
posted by homunculus at 12:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
Direct link to the aforementioned JYSexton tweets.
All right. Here's what's happening in this E-mail situation, from what I can surmise. Hold on. This is stupid. 1/posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:09 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Gah, get a load of this preemptive hippie punching from the WaPo's Catherine Rampell (via). God forbid we wait for Hillary to win and actually propose a liberal idea or three -- no, let's instead try to put things like the Fight for $15 and Glass-Steagall reinstatement in the same bucket as anti-GMO hysteria. Not a dime's worth of difference between Hillary Clinton and Jill Stein, amirite?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:09 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:09 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh shit, [impeachment's] going to happen, isn't it? I don't know what it'll be over, but they'll find a way. My blood pressure is already climbing.
No need for agita. This is deeply into the territory of "Please, dear Lord, let my enemies be this stupid." Especially if the D's take the Senate and give the Clinton team wide-ranging subpoena authority for their defense.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
No need for agita. This is deeply into the territory of "Please, dear Lord, let my enemies be this stupid." Especially if the D's take the Senate and give the Clinton team wide-ranging subpoena authority for their defense.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, if they have been sitting on some good oppo waiting for the right time, tomorrow is a great day to release it.
posted by chris24 at 12:12 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 12:12 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
3 emails.
*reaches for bourbon anyhow*
posted by carsondial at 12:13 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
*reaches for bourbon anyhow*
posted by carsondial at 12:13 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
On the subject of the Threat of a President Trump's effect on the markets: "Worldwide, investors have stashed away $70 trillion in cash". If 10% of that is released into the investment marketplace the day after Hillary is declared the winner, it'll be the biggest one-day boom in the history of money.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:13 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:13 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
tomorrow is a great day to release it.
Right now would be a lot better.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Right now would be a lot better.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yasaman: Anyway, I would definitely still love to see Cap punch Trump
I've posted this before, but I think it may suit your needs: Presidential Avengers
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:15 PM on October 28, 2016
I've posted this before, but I think it may suit your needs: Presidential Avengers
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:15 PM on October 28, 2016
Right now would be a lot better.
I think it'd be too obvious and get drowned in the email thing. Tomorrow the Chaffetz bullshit framing will have been rebutted a bit, people will have calmed a little, and it could get traction above the emails. Plus set up the Sunday shows to be as much about that as email. But I'll take either.
posted by chris24 at 12:16 PM on October 28, 2016
I think it'd be too obvious and get drowned in the email thing. Tomorrow the Chaffetz bullshit framing will have been rebutted a bit, people will have calmed a little, and it could get traction above the emails. Plus set up the Sunday shows to be as much about that as email. But I'll take either.
posted by chris24 at 12:16 PM on October 28, 2016
Literally, nobody pays attention on the weekends. The Trump accuser last Saturday was lost in the weekend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:17 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:17 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
It gets even weirder. The Times is linking Comey's letter to an investigation related somehow to Anthony Weiner's sexting (that's partially in the article, partially in the breaking news alert they just sent).
If the FBI is going to leak like the Titanic, why bother with all the smoke signals, Comey?
posted by zachlipton at 12:17 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
If the FBI is going to leak like the Titanic, why bother with all the smoke signals, Comey?
posted by zachlipton at 12:17 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think it'd be too obvious and get drowned in the email thing. Tomorrow the Chaffetz bullshit framing will have been rebutted a bit, people will have calmed a little, and it could get traction above the emails.
I don't think that's how Saturdays work.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on October 28, 2016
I don't think that's how Saturdays work.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on October 28, 2016
Just got polled on my cellphone by a group called something like "ENT research". ... I'm guessing this is some sort of internal poll for the state senate race?
Sounds like Orc mischief to me.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.
posted by phearlez at 12:19 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sounds like Orc mischief to me.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.
posted by phearlez at 12:19 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
And now Anthony Weiner is involved? Jane, stop this crazy thing, I want off.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, I just got an earful from my dad about how this email bomb just got dropped and how Hillary is toast now and how Trey Gowdy's got something on her too and how TV proved last night that there's tons of in-person voter fraud in Philadelphia because people dead ten years were still voting and how he just can't understand how, after it's been PROVEN OVER AND OVER that Hillary is a criminal, that anyone would still vote for her.
Thanks, Director Comey! grumble grumble raaagh fuck you
posted by delfin at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Thanks, Director Comey! grumble grumble raaagh fuck you
posted by delfin at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
If the FBI is going to leak like the Titanic...
stuff will go in, not out.
posted by Namlit at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
stuff will go in, not out.
posted by Namlit at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a single-issue voter, however, he plans on pulling the lever for Johnson. (Insert "Gary Johnson is a pothead" joke here.)
Given the resources that we deploy to police it, it's not the worst issue for a single issue voter to get stuck on.
But Hillary is MUCH more likely to make that happen than Gary Johnson. She has said that her administration would reclassify marijuana to Schedule II. That should pave the way for states to legalize it for medical or recreational use and allow the businesses operating where it's already legal to have bank accounts.
The smart pot-head is with her.
posted by VTX at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
Given the resources that we deploy to police it, it's not the worst issue for a single issue voter to get stuck on.
But Hillary is MUCH more likely to make that happen than Gary Johnson. She has said that her administration would reclassify marijuana to Schedule II. That should pave the way for states to legalize it for medical or recreational use and allow the businesses operating where it's already legal to have bank accounts.
The smart pot-head is with her.
posted by VTX at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
The Trump accuser last Saturday was lost in the weekend.
Because it was more of the same. The Sunday papers are the most read and the Sunday shows set the tone of coverage for the following week. I mean Friday afternoon releases were also the traditional release period of news you wanted to die so it's not like now is that much better than a Saturday. But like I said, I'll take it any time.
posted by chris24 at 12:21 PM on October 28, 2016
Because it was more of the same. The Sunday papers are the most read and the Sunday shows set the tone of coverage for the following week. I mean Friday afternoon releases were also the traditional release period of news you wanted to die so it's not like now is that much better than a Saturday. But like I said, I'll take it any time.
posted by chris24 at 12:21 PM on October 28, 2016
Jesus Christ, New emails tied to the FBI's Clinton inquiry were discovered during the investigation into Anthony Weiner's sexting
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:24 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:24 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Daniel Dale FBI to conduct new investigation of Hillary Clinton’s emails
Just idle speculation, I know. But damn this is frustrating.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:24 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the Friday letter to Congress, though, Comey said the FBI had discovered, “in connection with an unrelated case,” the existence of “emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation.” He said investigators would “review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information” and “assess their importance to our investigation.”If it is Anthony Weiner maybe they have his devices and there are email from Huma on there. Could it be that simple? For example, a forward that she sent from Hillary?
“Although the FBI cannot assess whether or not this material may be significant, and I cannot predict how long it will take us to complete this additional work, I believe it is important to update your committees about our efforts in light of my previous testimony,” Comey concluded.
Just idle speculation, I know. But damn this is frustrating.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:24 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Another reminder that if the Clintons really did have politically inconvenient people killed like the conspiracy theorists say, Weiner would be dead six times or so now.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:24 PM on October 28, 2016 [64 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:24 PM on October 28, 2016 [64 favorites]
Jon Favreau @jonfavs
After a DEFCON 1 freakout, we now know the emails in question were:
1) Not from Hillary
2) Not from her sever
3) Not from her investigation
I'm no expert, but you might want to include this in a letter 11 days before an election that could decide the fate of the republic.
Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTomWell at least Twitter is funny right now.
@jonfavs Hey, hey, hey.....whoa there, with the crazy talk
posted by Talez at 12:25 PM on October 28, 2016 [45 favorites]
Once again, who exactly who was actually going to be motivated to go out and vote for Hillary is going to not vote for Hillary if something moderately improper is revealed? Remember that in general people don't really care about even the one thing that was distinctly improper, the Bernie/DNC thing. Unless these are emails from Hillary or someone who was taking their orders from her saying that yes, they did kill Vince Foster and also got millions for the Clinton Foundation from the Ayatollah, no one cares. If it's just another "blah blah some people on Hillary's staff were kind of rude, also, being very rich gets you slightly more attention from Hillary Clinton than not being very rich, plus Hillary is kinda neoliberal" dealie, it will be forgotten by Monday by anyone likely to vote Democratic.
Also, srsly, email fatigue. If all these emails had been kept quiet and then came out at once, yeah, that would be a problem. But now it's just "yeah, okay, another email thing, whatever, wake me on election day".
posted by Frowner at 12:25 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also, srsly, email fatigue. If all these emails had been kept quiet and then came out at once, yeah, that would be a problem. But now it's just "yeah, okay, another email thing, whatever, wake me on election day".
posted by Frowner at 12:25 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
I mean, I probably care way more about this stuff and am way more skeptical of Clinton than your average Democratic voter and god knows I don't care.
posted by Frowner at 12:26 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 12:26 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
It just goes to show how relatively slow the election has been since the 3rd debate, that we're flipping our collective shit over something so small. This will be nothing by tomorrow morning.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016
he utterly failed to care that, in so doing, he was launching a live grenade into the last days of an election
I'm not happy either but if something came up that requires him to update his testimony, he really does have to do that BEFORE the election, not afterward.
Also, all we know is that they are looking at some more email, not that there is actually anything there. To date there is still no evidence that HRC did anything more than be very careless in arranging how she managed her email. For which she has thoroughly apologized at this point.
posted by bearwife at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016
I'm not happy either but if something came up that requires him to update his testimony, he really does have to do that BEFORE the election, not afterward.
Also, all we know is that they are looking at some more email, not that there is actually anything there. To date there is still no evidence that HRC did anything more than be very careless in arranging how she managed her email. For which she has thoroughly apologized at this point.
posted by bearwife at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016
From the NYTimes:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Federal law enforcement officials said Friday that the new emails uncovered in the closed investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server were discovered after the F.B.I. seized electronic devices belonging to Huma Abedin, an aide to Mrs. Clinton, and her husband, Anthony Weiner.So they took Huma's devices. Wow. Because her husband was sexting. Who knew that was a thing? And why is the FBI investigating sexting?
The F.B.I. told Congress that it had uncovered new emails related to the closed investigation into whether Mrs. Clinton or her aides had mishandled classified information, potentially reigniting an issue that has weighed on the presidential campaign and offering a lifeline to Donald J. Trump less than two weeks before the election.
In a letter to Congress, the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, said that emails had surfaced in an unrelated case, and that they “appear to be pertinent to the investigation.”
Mr. Comey said the F.B.I. was taking steps to “determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation.” He said he did not know how long it would take to review the emails, or whether the new information was significant.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Hey, Huma, I've got a great new plan to steal the 2016 election. It starts with killing four Americans somewhere in Libya."
"Sounds great! Let me email my husband who just got busted cheating on me because he pressed the wrong button on Twitter."
[fake]
posted by Etrigan at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
"Sounds great! Let me email my husband who just got busted cheating on me because he pressed the wrong button on Twitter."
[fake]
posted by Etrigan at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
To: carlosdanger@aol.com
From: huma@thecompetentone.com
cc: hilldawg@seekritemailserver.com
FWD: fwd: fwd: FWD: Cute cats videos!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:28 PM on October 28, 2016 [35 favorites]
From: huma@thecompetentone.com
cc: hilldawg@seekritemailserver.com
FWD: fwd: fwd: FWD: Cute cats videos!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:28 PM on October 28, 2016 [35 favorites]
On an unrelated and positive note, Trump's ranting about rigged elections isn't working. In fact it's increasing trust in the system.
WaPo: Americans are tuning out Trump’s ugly lies. This new poll proves it.
"Even as Trump supporters continue to lap up his various suggestions that the only legitimate outcome of the election would be a Trump victory, the broader American public is completely rejecting the story he’s telling.
Indeed, there’s new evidence this morning that Trump’s ongoing effort to undermine faith in our democracy has been accompanied by a strengthening of confidence in it. And there’s also new evidence that majorities see Trump as fundamentally disrespectful of our democratic institutions.
The new Washington Post/ABC News tracking poll finds Hillary Clinton leading Trump by four points nationally... But here’s a potentially more significant finding. As Scott Clement and Emily Guskin note, the new Post/ABC poll also finds that worries about voter fraud have declined among American voters by 10 percentage points, even as confidence that the votes will be counted accurately has risen by 12 points."
posted by chris24 at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
WaPo: Americans are tuning out Trump’s ugly lies. This new poll proves it.
"Even as Trump supporters continue to lap up his various suggestions that the only legitimate outcome of the election would be a Trump victory, the broader American public is completely rejecting the story he’s telling.
Indeed, there’s new evidence this morning that Trump’s ongoing effort to undermine faith in our democracy has been accompanied by a strengthening of confidence in it. And there’s also new evidence that majorities see Trump as fundamentally disrespectful of our democratic institutions.
The new Washington Post/ABC News tracking poll finds Hillary Clinton leading Trump by four points nationally... But here’s a potentially more significant finding. As Scott Clement and Emily Guskin note, the new Post/ABC poll also finds that worries about voter fraud have declined among American voters by 10 percentage points, even as confidence that the votes will be counted accurately has risen by 12 points."
posted by chris24 at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
so Huma forwards a funny cat gif from Hillary to Anthony while he's busy snapchatting teenagers and here we are
Edit: dammit soren_lorensen
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Edit: dammit soren_lorensen
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
My uncle, who is insane, has just posted something to his feminist daughter's Facebook page saying "If you are going to run for president this was the year. I'm sure you would have won. Either canidate will probably go to prison after they win the election. You would have got my vote anyway."
*bursts into flames*
posted by mynameisluka at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
*bursts into flames*
posted by mynameisluka at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
And why is the FBI investigating sexting?
Because he was sexting underaged girls.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Because he was sexting underaged girls.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm getting a little tired with the "email" thing because I can't even tell what people are talking about. If the news says "Clinton's emails" they could reasonably be referring to:
1. Her use of a private email server
2. Her handling of classified material in email
3. John Podesta's hacked emails
4. The DNC's hacked emails
5. Anthony Weiner's wife's confiscated devices, I guess?
Literally none of these things are directly related to any other thing. Any one of them could be happening without the others.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
1. Her use of a private email server
2. Her handling of classified material in email
3. John Podesta's hacked emails
4. The DNC's hacked emails
5. Anthony Weiner's wife's confiscated devices, I guess?
Literally none of these things are directly related to any other thing. Any one of them could be happening without the others.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
I pity anyone whose job it is to go through Anthony Weiner's electronic devices.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
It just goes to show how relatively slow the election has been since the 3rd debate, that we're flipping our collective shit over something so small.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe Clinton should have called Trump's bluff and agreed to that 4th debate. Didn't her numbers improve significantly after each one?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe Clinton should have called Trump's bluff and agreed to that 4th debate. Didn't her numbers improve significantly after each one?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
In other Chaffetz news, While the FBI news was breaking, Chaffetz also sent a letter to McCabe demanding info about his wife's VA Senate bid. If you're not caught up on the conspiracies, this one popped up on /r/the_donald a week or two ago, alleging some money got laundered to a wife of an FBI agent while Clinton was under investigation or something. To my eye it just looked like normal campaign contributions.
Anyways it seems that Chaffetz feels the need to prove he's very serious when he says "Even before we get to Day One, we’ve got two years’ worth of material already lined up. She has four years of history at the State Department, and it ain’t good."
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyways it seems that Chaffetz feels the need to prove he's very serious when he says "Even before we get to Day One, we’ve got two years’ worth of material already lined up. She has four years of history at the State Department, and it ain’t good."
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Right but why is it the FBI and not the NYPD? Is that normal?
posted by VTX at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2016
posted by VTX at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2016
This part of Trump's gloating though:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2016
Mr. Trump seized on the F.B.I. action on Friday at a rally in New Hampshire. To cheers of “lock her up” from his supporters, Mr. Trump said: “Hillary Clinton’s corruption is on a scale we have never seen before. We must not let her take her criminal scheme into the Oval Office.”is going to be such a let down for him when they don't immediately and without a trial throw Hillary in the slammer and call off the election.
After deriding the F.B.I. for weeks as inept and corrupt, Mr. Trump went on to praise the law enforcement agency.
“I have great respect for the fact that the F.B.I. and the D.O.J. are now willing to have the courage to right the horrible mistake that they made,” Mr. Trump said. “This was a grave miscarriage of justice that the American people fully understand. It is everybody’s hope that it is about to be corrected.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2016
Hey guise, there's no reason to panic over this FBI/Weiner Clinton email thing, it's a non starter. I'll be on the roof.
posted by guiseroom at 12:32 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 12:32 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is there a single story in this campaign, no matter how stupid, that is incapable of getting even stupider?
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
@knifequest: anthony weiner is so horny that he's altering the flow of history
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:33 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:33 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
Right but why is it the FBI and not the NYPD? Is that normal?
I believe the teenager he was sexting was in another state.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:33 PM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I believe the teenager he was sexting was in another state.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:33 PM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Right but why is it the FBI and not the NYPD? Is that normal?
I'm assuming because the girl doesn't live in New York, so it crosses state lines.
posted by chris24 at 12:34 PM on October 28, 2016
I'm assuming because the girl doesn't live in New York, so it crosses state lines.
posted by chris24 at 12:34 PM on October 28, 2016
Here's what the Times article has so far:
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Federal law enforcement officials said Friday that the new emails uncovered in the closed investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server were discovered after the F.B.I. seized electronic devices belonging to Huma Abedin, a top aide to Mrs. Clinton, and her husband, Anthony Weiner.And, it's rather rich for the FBI to investigate anyone over classified information when all this comes tumbling out within a few hours after the Director is all hush-hush about what's going on.
The F.B.I. is investigating illicit text messages that Mr. Weiner sent to a 15-year-old girl in North Carolina. The bureau told Congress on Friday that it had uncovered new emails related to the Clinton case — one federal official said they numbered in the thousands — potentially reigniting an issue that has weighed on the presidential campaign and offering a lifeline to Donald J. Trump less than two weeks before the election.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I actually don't get it. What could possibly be the content of emails that 1) were on Weiner or Abedin's phones and 2) is related to Clinton's email server and 3) is not actually from Clinton's email server
I am having a failure.of imagination
posted by saturday_morning at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2016
I am having a failure.of imagination
posted by saturday_morning at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2016
In non-email-related news...
BREAKING! Trump's ground game finally spotted on university campus!
I just ran past the first hint of a Trump campaign I've seen on campus (meanwhile: HFA has had a special campaign office on campus that is just for the universities open for months now). They had a little table next to the Hillary table that has been in front of the library every day for weeks. Staffed by the type of white male business majors you'd expect, and I think the person they were talking to when I ran by was doing the "let me ask you how you can even defend this jackwagon" tactic that I long to do but don't have the balls.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
BREAKING! Trump's ground game finally spotted on university campus!
I just ran past the first hint of a Trump campaign I've seen on campus (meanwhile: HFA has had a special campaign office on campus that is just for the universities open for months now). They had a little table next to the Hillary table that has been in front of the library every day for weeks. Staffed by the type of white male business majors you'd expect, and I think the person they were talking to when I ran by was doing the "let me ask you how you can even defend this jackwagon" tactic that I long to do but don't have the balls.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
2) is related to Clinton's email server and 3) is not actually from Clinton's email server
I'm assuming personal emails that were part of the 33,000 deleted. They've recovered about half of that if I remember right. So maybe they're just checking to see if they have the cat GIF emails already.
posted by chris24 at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm assuming personal emails that were part of the 33,000 deleted. They've recovered about half of that if I remember right. So maybe they're just checking to see if they have the cat GIF emails already.
posted by chris24 at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Seems like Trump saw something like this coming all the way back in August 2015, back when I didn't completely hate the world.
"[Abedin's] receiving very, very important information and giving it to Hillary. Who else is she giving it to? Her husband has serious problems and on top of that, he now works for a public relations firm," Trump said Saturday in a press conference following an appearance at the National Federation of Republican Assemblies (NFRA) convention in Nashville.posted by zachlipton at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2016
Trump added that Abedin was "married to a guy who is obviously psychologically disturbed," referencing the lewd photo scandal that forced Weiner to resign from Congress in 2011. Trump had previously donated $2,000 to Weiner's 2010 congressional campaign, according to the Washington Post.
Meanwhile on a different planet (i.e. where sanity reigns) Supreme Court To Hear Critical Challenge Over Transgender Rights
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gloucester County School Board in Virginia asked the justices to hear the case, which was brought by Gavin Grimm, a transgender male student who is now a senior at the high school in the district.Any chance this won't fall 4 to 4?
The school district passed a policy limiting restroom use to students’ biological sex, and Grimm — backed by the ACLU — sued. Although he initially lost at the district court, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals found in Grimm’s favor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
BREAKING! Trump's ground game finally spotted on university campus!
Oh wow, that's awesome. I'll have to walk by the library on my lunch hour sometime toharass them ask them about Benghazi.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh wow, that's awesome. I'll have to walk by the library on my lunch hour sometime to
posted by tonycpsu at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm getting a little tired with the "email" thing because I can't even tell what people are talking about. If the news says "Clinton's emails" they could reasonably be referring to:
1. Her use of a private email server
2. Her handling of classified material in email.....
I normally take them to be talking about one of these first two, but you are right, in general - who knows what they mean?
posted by thelonius at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2016
1. Her use of a private email server
2. Her handling of classified material in email.....
I normally take them to be talking about one of these first two, but you are right, in general - who knows what they mean?
posted by thelonius at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2016
I mean, I have been really pretty unhappy with some of the stuff that's come out about Hillary's speeches, I think the foundation probably was not run at the level of probity that a good auditor would prefer and some of the Podesta stuff does not thrill me.
But look, virtually everything that has come out so far is (except the Bernie/DNC thing) is well within perfectly normal political behaviors and differences. Clinton's foreign policy and her ideas about trade are unpleasant to me. So? I'm going to vote in a Republican?
Except for the people who have very, very strong pre-existing moral convictions about not voting for a candidate whose policies are not in line with their beliefs (and those people always exist, it's a temperamental thing, people are different from one another, etc) most people who are inclined to vote Democratic are going to vote from a place of compromise and common sense. And the leftish people who don't want to vote for Hillary are not refusing to vote for her because of the emails - it's not like her actions as SoS or her alignment will Wall Street were exactly secret.
posted by Frowner at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
But look, virtually everything that has come out so far is (except the Bernie/DNC thing) is well within perfectly normal political behaviors and differences. Clinton's foreign policy and her ideas about trade are unpleasant to me. So? I'm going to vote in a Republican?
Except for the people who have very, very strong pre-existing moral convictions about not voting for a candidate whose policies are not in line with their beliefs (and those people always exist, it's a temperamental thing, people are different from one another, etc) most people who are inclined to vote Democratic are going to vote from a place of compromise and common sense. And the leftish people who don't want to vote for Hillary are not refusing to vote for her because of the emails - it's not like her actions as SoS or her alignment will Wall Street were exactly secret.
posted by Frowner at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
@nickconfessore Alternate headline: The alleged sexual misconduct of three men is dominating the final weeks of the presidential campaign.
Jesus wept.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:40 PM on October 28, 2016 [30 favorites]
Jesus wept.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:40 PM on October 28, 2016 [30 favorites]
Any chance this won't fall 4 to 4?
A tie vote upholds the Circuit Court ruling, so, sure.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:40 PM on October 28, 2016
A tie vote upholds the Circuit Court ruling, so, sure.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:40 PM on October 28, 2016
WEINERRRRRR *shakes fist*
Goddamn, poor Huma Abedin. I hope fate has some amazing things in store for her after this marriage to a...I don't even have disparaging enough terms for him. Right now I'm just thinking of her glumly eating a slice a pizza at the end of the Weiner documentary.
posted by sallybrown at 12:41 PM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Goddamn, poor Huma Abedin. I hope fate has some amazing things in store for her after this marriage to a...I don't even have disparaging enough terms for him. Right now I'm just thinking of her glumly eating a slice a pizza at the end of the Weiner documentary.
posted by sallybrown at 12:41 PM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
A tie vote upholds the Circuit Court ruling without setting a precedent. A victory in the Supreme Court would be much more powerful.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:42 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:42 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
@mmurraypolitics
"More @PeteWilliamsNBC: Comey letter was sent to Hill "out of an abundance of caution" to be extra thorough 2/"
AKA, give the Republicans a lifeline.
posted by chris24 at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
"More @PeteWilliamsNBC: Comey letter was sent to Hill "out of an abundance of caution" to be extra thorough 2/"
AKA, give the Republicans a lifeline.
posted by chris24 at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, sallybrown. Ima pour one out tonight for every woman who's ever hitched her wagon to a guy who turned out to be a cheating dirtbag. What a weiner.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
My motto is: get her elected and then hold her feet to the fire if necessary.
I am out canvasing for her, working hard, but I didn't vote for her in the primaries and I have not been her (or her husband's--mainly her husband's because I really do not like that dude) biggest fan, but she is nowhere near the level of demonic evil from beyond the ends of the universe that she's been portrayed as, and in order for us to not all die in a nuclear war, she needs to first get into the White House. And then we can all get back to our usual business of being not entirely happy with our government and our leaders, writing letters and protesting and angry tweeting and circular firing-squadding like good leftists.
But right now? The plane is going down, and unless you're going to talk to me about how we can make sure the plane does not actually crash in a ball of fire, I'm really not interested in hearing it. We can talk about the carbon footprint of air travel or how the CEOs of airlines are doucherockets--both valid concerns--later. When we're on the ground.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
I am out canvasing for her, working hard, but I didn't vote for her in the primaries and I have not been her (or her husband's--mainly her husband's because I really do not like that dude) biggest fan, but she is nowhere near the level of demonic evil from beyond the ends of the universe that she's been portrayed as, and in order for us to not all die in a nuclear war, she needs to first get into the White House. And then we can all get back to our usual business of being not entirely happy with our government and our leaders, writing letters and protesting and angry tweeting and circular firing-squadding like good leftists.
But right now? The plane is going down, and unless you're going to talk to me about how we can make sure the plane does not actually crash in a ball of fire, I'm really not interested in hearing it. We can talk about the carbon footprint of air travel or how the CEOs of airlines are doucherockets--both valid concerns--later. When we're on the ground.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
And why is the FBI investigating sexting?
They do when she's 15.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
They do when she's 15.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I dunno, I think that the replacement of Comey is more likely after this bullshit nothingburger. Comey may have been abiding by the letter of his obligations to Congress, but the Republican party was more than willing to politicize his actions, even if he wasn't trying to make this a partisan issue. If the perception that you can't do your job as FBI director impartially, whether or not that perception is accurate, then it's probably time to resign.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:46 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Existential Dread at 12:46 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Right now I'm just thinking of her glumly eating a slice a pizza at the end of the Weiner documentary.
I'm thinking they seized all of her electronics-- every device she uses which would include all of her photos, her calendar, her eBooks, her music-- everything. If it happened to me I would be in the corner sobbing uncontrollably.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm thinking they seized all of her electronics-- every device she uses which would include all of her photos, her calendar, her eBooks, her music-- everything. If it happened to me I would be in the corner sobbing uncontrollably.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
What a goddamn clusterfuck of a story. Am I being overly optimistic if I assume that for the vast majority of people, their eyes will glaze over and they'll stop paying attention at about two twists into this needlessly twisty story? I mean it goes FBI emails Clinton something something investigation something Weiner something no new emails something Comey something ???????? It's been like an hour and I'm already over it.
posted by yasaman at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hallelujah, the audio of Keepin it 1600's live show last night is finally up on Stitcher (but not Soundcloud).
Bedwetters unite!
posted by rp at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Bedwetters unite!
posted by rp at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why elections matter: SCOTUS announced they will hear transgender bathroom case involving Gavin Grimm and Gloucester County School Board
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
And why is the FBI investigating sexting?
They do when she's 15.
Objection! Asked and answered.
He's being investigated because he sexted an underage girl. It's by the FBI because that girl was across state lines.
posted by VTX at 12:51 PM on October 28, 2016
They do when she's 15.
Objection! Asked and answered.
He's being investigated because he sexted an underage girl. It's by the FBI because that girl was across state lines.
posted by VTX at 12:51 PM on October 28, 2016
You are not being overly optimistic, yasaman. This is not just a nothingburger, it's an incredibly convoluted nothingburger. Comey may as well have just gotten on twitter and shouted "EMAILS! EMAILS! EMAILS!" for all the content that is at the bottom of this mazy non-scandal.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:52 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:52 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump more than a year ago: Huma Abedin, the top aide to Hillary Clinton and the wife of perv sleazebag Anthony Wiener, was a major security risk as a collector of info
Which seems oddly, and specifically prescient considering the source
posted by shothotbot at 12:52 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Which seems oddly, and specifically prescient considering the source
posted by shothotbot at 12:52 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Podesta/HRC statement on the Comey letter [screencap in tweet otherwise I'd copy/paste]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:53 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:53 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I laughed far too hard at this:
@carlquintanilla 30 days have Sept, April, June & November. All the rest have 31. Except for October, which has 4,857.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:54 PM on October 28, 2016 [77 favorites]
@carlquintanilla 30 days have Sept, April, June & November. All the rest have 31. Except for October, which has 4,857.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:54 PM on October 28, 2016 [77 favorites]
just gotten on twitter and shouted "EMAILS! EMAILS! EMAILS!"
NYT headline: New Comey Release Awakens CLOUD OF SUSPICION CLOUD OF SUSPICION CLOUD OF SUSPICION Around Clinton.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:55 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
NYT headline: New Comey Release Awakens CLOUD OF SUSPICION CLOUD OF SUSPICION CLOUD OF SUSPICION Around Clinton.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:55 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Somebody could post the goddamn recipe for the Elixir of Life or the Philosopher's Stone on Twitter and I wouldn't read it because the text would be embedded in a crunchy low-res JPEG screenshot. What the fuck is wrong with just linking to things, if you absolutely must use Twitter to post lengthy content?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:55 PM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:55 PM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
@kurteichenwald
Details of FBI: They found 3 emails that "might" be relevant to the case. None of them were withheld by Clinton.
@mattmfm
If Pete Williams' reporting is accurate, Comey just committed one of the most irresponsible acts of electioneering in modern history.
And Krugman has been going off on Comey.
posted by chris24 at 12:57 PM on October 28, 2016 [30 favorites]
Details of FBI: They found 3 emails that "might" be relevant to the case. None of them were withheld by Clinton.
@mattmfm
If Pete Williams' reporting is accurate, Comey just committed one of the most irresponsible acts of electioneering in modern history.
And Krugman has been going off on Comey.
posted by chris24 at 12:57 PM on October 28, 2016 [30 favorites]
What the fuck is wrong with just linking to things, if you absolutely must use Twitter to post lengthy content?
All the journalists got it in an email that won't fit in a tweet, but want to be the first to put it on twitter?
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:57 PM on October 28, 2016
All the journalists got it in an email that won't fit in a tweet, but want to be the first to put it on twitter?
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:57 PM on October 28, 2016
T. Becket Adams @BecketAdams"When I was running for president I had to walk uphills both way in the snow in heels backwards!"
As a woman inches closer to the White House, news is dominated by sexual misconduct of her opponent, her husband and her aide’s husband.
posted by Talez at 12:57 PM on October 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
All the journalists got it in an email that won't fit in a tweet, but want to be the first to put it on twitter?
Jesus wept.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:58 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jesus wept.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:58 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
If I'm going to take any overly-simplified take-home message from all of this, it's DUDE'S SUCK, PUT WOMEN IN POSITIONS OF POWER.
Because seriously, dudes. All three of you suck. You should be ashamed of yourselves, and slink off into the sunset so I don't ever have to hear about you or the provenance of your dicks ever again.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Because seriously, dudes. All three of you suck. You should be ashamed of yourselves, and slink off into the sunset so I don't ever have to hear about you or the provenance of your dicks ever again.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on October 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
DPRK News Service: Discovery of erotic e-mails from flagrant onanist Anthony Wienor to Hillary Clinton shows US government infested by perversion at all levels
Great. So North Korea thinks "Wienor" (whoever he may be) is sexting Hillary.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:01 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
Great. So North Korea thinks "Wienor" (whoever he may be) is sexting Hillary.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:01 PM on October 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
During the DNC, I was convinced that Clinton was going to win this and my faith remains unshaken. I started posting a song a day by a great female band or singer to my Facebook account because my job forbids me from making political posts. I've been counting them down since the DNC thinking that the number next to the song is the number of days until election day. I posted "10" today but that seems to be off now. I think it should have been "11" or maybe even "12" (if Election Day is "1").
Anyhow, I'll let the rest of you worry about the email thing. I'm very cross with myself about the mis-numbering - even if I'm the only one in my Facebook world even aware this is going on.
10 is Patti LaBelle
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:02 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Anyhow, I'll let the rest of you worry about the email thing. I'm very cross with myself about the mis-numbering - even if I'm the only one in my Facebook world even aware this is going on.
10 is Patti LaBelle
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:02 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe they think that "Weiner" is just too implausible a name, and that the good people of the DPRK would think their government was trolling them.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:03 PM on October 28, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:03 PM on October 28, 2016
flagrant onanist
Hello, is this the business card factory? Throw out everything you're working on because I have got a big order for you
posted by theodolite at 1:03 PM on October 28, 2016 [54 favorites]
Hello, is this the business card factory? Throw out everything you're working on because I have got a big order for you
posted by theodolite at 1:03 PM on October 28, 2016 [54 favorites]
DPRK News Service: Discovery of erotic e-mails from flagrant onanist Anthony Wienor to Hillary Clinton shows US government infested by perversion at all levels
This is basically more accurate and less hyperbolic than how Chaffetz spun it
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:04 PM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
This is basically more accurate and less hyperbolic than how Chaffetz spun it
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:04 PM on October 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
Carlos Danger, Flagrant Onanist
someone make up some business cards
EDIT: dammit, beaten to the punch
posted by Existential Dread at 1:04 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
someone make up some business cards
EDIT: dammit, beaten to the punch
posted by Existential Dread at 1:04 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I guess a flagrant onanist is slightly better than a fragrant onanist.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jesus wept.
With all the weeping Jesus has been doing this year, do you suppose He occasionally changes His tears to salty wine just because He can?
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
With all the weeping Jesus has been doing this year, do you suppose He occasionally changes His tears to salty wine just because He can?
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
You all are aware that @DPRK_News is a parody, right?
posted by ArbiterOne at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbiterOne at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
With all the weeping Jesus has been doing this year, do you suppose He occasionally changes His tears to salty wine just because He can?
He does, but the bottle labels he had printed up are surprisingly tacky.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:08 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
He does, but the bottle labels he had printed up are surprisingly tacky.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:08 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
salty wine
if it's Lutheran Jesus, then probably gose is what we're talking about
posted by Existential Dread at 1:08 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
if it's Lutheran Jesus, then probably gose is what we're talking about
posted by Existential Dread at 1:08 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh FUCK.
I can't take any more of this. I really, really can't. This is such utter bullshit and it's just going to cause a tightening of the race for NO REASON I'm literally crying at my desk.
posted by chonus at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I can't take any more of this. I really, really can't. This is such utter bullshit and it's just going to cause a tightening of the race for NO REASON I'm literally crying at my desk.
posted by chonus at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump added that Abedin was "married to a guy who is obviously psychologically disturbed," referencing the lewd photo scandal that forced Weiner to resign from Congress in 2011.
We're geting to Kevin Bacon degrees of separation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016
We're geting to Kevin Bacon degrees of separation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016
If Jesus can turn water into wine and multiply fish and loaves, I'm sure he can do a bit of desalinization before making wine.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't know what the smallest possible zilchpickle is you can put on a nothingburger is, but this latest email thing qualifies.
WIll it affect voting? I doubt it. At this stage, if you haven't already decided to give the whole email toothache a pass in the light of the Trumpocalypse of Shit with which to compare it, I doubt it very much this will tip you back into Camp Orange.
It's weird. Hugh Laurie said that trying to understand the deep distrust of HRC was like coming into a movie having missed the first act where she burned down the orphanage - what the hell is it about? I was talking to a Swedish friend, who's a perfectly cromulent easy going woman in her 50s who's dealt with a lot of weird in her life without obvious harm, and who has very finely turned senses of judgement, pragmatism and egalitarianism, and she 'just doesn't like or trust Hillary Clinton. She couldn't articulate why (and she loathes Trump), but she just dislikes the woman with something of a passion.
Having watched some documentaries on HRC's history, I think I get some of it, though. The 'Eight years of Bill, eight years of Hill' plan - even if it wasn't said like that at the time in public - gave the anti-liberals a lot to aim at, and Bill left them plenty of room to go for it. And as us Brits can attest, decades of lies in the media tuned to resonate with racism, xenophobia and/or misogyny can really skew perceptions. If you give those parts of your nature short shrift, you'll miss the drift into madness...
posted by Devonian at 1:17 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
WIll it affect voting? I doubt it. At this stage, if you haven't already decided to give the whole email toothache a pass in the light of the Trumpocalypse of Shit with which to compare it, I doubt it very much this will tip you back into Camp Orange.
It's weird. Hugh Laurie said that trying to understand the deep distrust of HRC was like coming into a movie having missed the first act where she burned down the orphanage - what the hell is it about? I was talking to a Swedish friend, who's a perfectly cromulent easy going woman in her 50s who's dealt with a lot of weird in her life without obvious harm, and who has very finely turned senses of judgement, pragmatism and egalitarianism, and she 'just doesn't like or trust Hillary Clinton. She couldn't articulate why (and she loathes Trump), but she just dislikes the woman with something of a passion.
Having watched some documentaries on HRC's history, I think I get some of it, though. The 'Eight years of Bill, eight years of Hill' plan - even if it wasn't said like that at the time in public - gave the anti-liberals a lot to aim at, and Bill left them plenty of room to go for it. And as us Brits can attest, decades of lies in the media tuned to resonate with racism, xenophobia and/or misogyny can really skew perceptions. If you give those parts of your nature short shrift, you'll miss the drift into madness...
posted by Devonian at 1:17 PM on October 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Well, I made it to the bottom just in time for a new thread.
posted by obtuser at 1:41 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by obtuser at 1:41 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm suddenly very glad that my father did not live to see the conclusion of this election. "Just tell me how it ends" his ghost is probably yelling.
posted by Soliloquy at 1:46 PM on October 28, 2016
posted by Soliloquy at 1:46 PM on October 28, 2016
So ... there's a new thread now?
This one is done, pretty much?
No one much cares what goes on in it anymore?
FINALLY.
*ahem*:
♪♫ Beany guacamole dip
It was a beany guacamole dip
So scoop it up with a tortilla chip
And just you wait, just you wait ... ♪♫
posted by kyrademon at 1:49 PM on October 28, 2016 [28 favorites]
This one is done, pretty much?
No one much cares what goes on in it anymore?
FINALLY.
*ahem*:
♪♫ Beany guacamole dip
It was a beany guacamole dip
So scoop it up with a tortilla chip
And just you wait, just you wait ... ♪♫
posted by kyrademon at 1:49 PM on October 28, 2016 [28 favorites]
♪♫When he was 10 the seed pod split, 'cado pit, sprout growing
Few years later, see a tree in the garden, fruits sowing
That's it the fruit's picked, ready for politic
(whispering)
And guac was coming but the election wasn't quick♪♫
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
Few years later, see a tree in the garden, fruits sowing
That's it the fruit's picked, ready for politic
(whispering)
And guac was coming but the election wasn't quick♪♫
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on October 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
> Evan McMullin, is unmarried, and has never been married.
FWIW my spouse has been talking up McMullin with her friends and relatives, who are mostly Utah Mormons. There has been a lot of interest and positive talk.
But lately there has been a bit of blowback and "OMG! He's actually AGAINST Trump?! He's saying bad things about Trump?! I can't believe it!" and sort of reverting to the Trump norm.
So, we'll see . . .
For context, (straight) marriage is pretty much the #1 most important thing for Mormons and gay marriage is something akin to dancing with the devil. Believing/espousing it is pretty much considered heresy among LDS.
posted by flug at 2:34 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
FWIW my spouse has been talking up McMullin with her friends and relatives, who are mostly Utah Mormons. There has been a lot of interest and positive talk.
But lately there has been a bit of blowback and "OMG! He's actually AGAINST Trump?! He's saying bad things about Trump?! I can't believe it!" and sort of reverting to the Trump norm.
So, we'll see . . .
For context, (straight) marriage is pretty much the #1 most important thing for Mormons and gay marriage is something akin to dancing with the devil. Believing/espousing it is pretty much considered heresy among LDS.
posted by flug at 2:34 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump's Nuts.
Nothing to do with that man. Even though it's a local business I just learnt about them. I know the snack they'll be pumping out of my stomach on Nov 9. A whole bunch of chewed up Trump Nuts.
posted by adept256 at 2:44 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nothing to do with that man. Even though it's a local business I just learnt about them. I know the snack they'll be pumping out of my stomach on Nov 9. A whole bunch of chewed up Trump Nuts.
posted by adept256 at 2:44 PM on October 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
A whole bunch of chewed up Trump Nuts.
Why, thanks ever so much for that image!
posted by Namlit at 3:11 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Why, thanks ever so much for that image!
posted by Namlit at 3:11 PM on October 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I love that in over 15 years of Metafilter membership, my primary contribution has been elevating the profile of guacamole as a comfort food in times of anxiety.
I am truly living my best life.
posted by Superplin at 3:33 PM on October 28, 2016 [43 favorites]
I am truly living my best life.
posted by Superplin at 3:33 PM on October 28, 2016 [43 favorites]
So, dearest MeFites, in summation...
Guacamole is a land of contrasts, yet a delicacy which is all too familiar.
##### ARCHIVE COMMAND EXECUTE #####
##### THREAD 162994 GOING OFFLINE #####
##### THREAD OFFLINE #####
posted by PROD_TPSL at 6:38 PM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Guacamole is a land of contrasts, yet a delicacy which is all too familiar.
##### ARCHIVE COMMAND EXECUTE #####
##### THREAD 162994 GOING OFFLINE #####
##### THREAD OFFLINE #####
posted by PROD_TPSL at 6:38 PM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Read the room: it's empty.
But you do have a great echo chamber here. Fire away.
posted by Namlit at 4:24 AM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
But you do have a great echo chamber here. Fire away.
posted by Namlit at 4:24 AM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Election night guacamole
1 bottle of bourbon
1 ripe avocado
Drizzle of olive oil
Juice of 1 lime
Half a fresh chilli, finely chopped
Half a small red onion, finely chopped
1 tomato, chopped
1 tbsp chopped fresh coriander leaves
Some well-cooked hot beans
Drink a glass of bourbon. Turn on the TV in the background. See strange speculation that New York may be surprisingly 'tight'; sigh and drink another glass of bourbon.
Halve the avocado, remove the stone and scrape the flesh into a bowl. Ignore the noise from the neighbor with the Trump sign in the yard who has started a large victory party. Add a drizzle of olive oil and bourbon, and a little salt and pepper, then mash with a fork; you want to keep it chunky, rather than smooth.
Notice that North Carolina has been called disappointingly quickly for Trump. Drink another glass of bourbon.
Mash the beans separately, adding a little bourbon for ease of mashing. Take a sip or two of bourbon while doing this, and curse your uncle - the shouty one at every Thanksgiving Dinner - who is posting "A Brave New Trump Dawn" memes on Facebook.
Add the mashed beans, the lime juice and stir so that it comes together. Add the chilli.
Hum a random song from Hamilton. Swig a little more bourbon.
See TV footage of Kaine looking worried, cutting to Pence looking confident as Ohio goes for Trump with a double digit margin. Drink another glass of bourbon.
Add the red onion and tomato, then stir in the chopped coriander. Notice that there are problems with vote counting in Florida. Drink another glass of bourbon, and add a very generous amount of bourbon to the guacamole mix.
Mix well, then check the seasoning and add salt and pepper if necessary. Ignore the background TV speculation about Pennsylvania being 'too close to call'.
Cover the surface of the guacamole dip with clingfilm to prevent discolouration and then store in the fridge until ready to serve.
See CNN call the election for Trump at the top of the hour. Take the guacamole out of the fridge and grab the largest bag of Doritos you can find. Eat the whole lot through the next few hours while drinking the remaining bourbon and scrolling through the Canada immigration website, looking for a fast-passage program which matches your circumstances. As dawn breaks, go onto the MetaFilter election thread and add to the 17,318 like-minded comments posted there (non deleted as the mods have abandoned their posts and are in a fast car heading for the border) since Trump won.
posted by Wordshore at 5:02 AM on November 1, 2016 [8 favorites]
1 bottle of bourbon
1 ripe avocado
Drizzle of olive oil
Juice of 1 lime
Half a fresh chilli, finely chopped
Half a small red onion, finely chopped
1 tomato, chopped
1 tbsp chopped fresh coriander leaves
Some well-cooked hot beans
Drink a glass of bourbon. Turn on the TV in the background. See strange speculation that New York may be surprisingly 'tight'; sigh and drink another glass of bourbon.
Halve the avocado, remove the stone and scrape the flesh into a bowl. Ignore the noise from the neighbor with the Trump sign in the yard who has started a large victory party. Add a drizzle of olive oil and bourbon, and a little salt and pepper, then mash with a fork; you want to keep it chunky, rather than smooth.
Notice that North Carolina has been called disappointingly quickly for Trump. Drink another glass of bourbon.
Mash the beans separately, adding a little bourbon for ease of mashing. Take a sip or two of bourbon while doing this, and curse your uncle - the shouty one at every Thanksgiving Dinner - who is posting "A Brave New Trump Dawn" memes on Facebook.
Add the mashed beans, the lime juice and stir so that it comes together. Add the chilli.
Hum a random song from Hamilton. Swig a little more bourbon.
See TV footage of Kaine looking worried, cutting to Pence looking confident as Ohio goes for Trump with a double digit margin. Drink another glass of bourbon.
Add the red onion and tomato, then stir in the chopped coriander. Notice that there are problems with vote counting in Florida. Drink another glass of bourbon, and add a very generous amount of bourbon to the guacamole mix.
Mix well, then check the seasoning and add salt and pepper if necessary. Ignore the background TV speculation about Pennsylvania being 'too close to call'.
Cover the surface of the guacamole dip with clingfilm to prevent discolouration and then store in the fridge until ready to serve.
See CNN call the election for Trump at the top of the hour. Take the guacamole out of the fridge and grab the largest bag of Doritos you can find. Eat the whole lot through the next few hours while drinking the remaining bourbon and scrolling through the Canada immigration website, looking for a fast-passage program which matches your circumstances. As dawn breaks, go onto the MetaFilter election thread and add to the 17,318 like-minded comments posted there (non deleted as the mods have abandoned their posts and are in a fast car heading for the border) since Trump won.
posted by Wordshore at 5:02 AM on November 1, 2016 [8 favorites]
Before heading for the border, don't forget to collect all your earnings from the bets you've been placing on Trump to win.
I spend a fair bit of time over at what.thedailywtf.com, an almost unmoderated forum for disaffected IT professionals among whom are several unfortunate Shouty Uncle Facebook types. I have been doing my best to rile and irritate those people for several years now, and I quite enjoyed letting them know that a vote for Trump was a vote for paying a few thou to that insufferably smug Leftist.
posted by flabdablet at 5:59 AM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
I spend a fair bit of time over at what.thedailywtf.com, an almost unmoderated forum for disaffected IT professionals among whom are several unfortunate Shouty Uncle Facebook types. I have been doing my best to rile and irritate those people for several years now, and I quite enjoyed letting them know that a vote for Trump was a vote for paying a few thou to that insufferably smug Leftist.
posted by flabdablet at 5:59 AM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
If we're talking about guacamole-fueled nightmares in this empty room, here's one I ponder in that half-dreaming state before sleep. The preliminary results from Ohio are in. Wolf Blitzer pauses for a long moment. 10 seconds of dead air. Then he reads: 75% for Trump. Results are in for Pennsylvania as well. 78% for Trump. The Trump campaign immediately declares victory. Announces their choices for the new White House curtains. The Clinton campaign demands a recount and investigation. Republicans, after a quick debate on whether or not to accept the obviously spurious numbers, decide to go all in and proclaim Trump the winner. The streets across the country start to fill up with the candidates' supporters.
Hours earlier in Moscow, the hacking team, in charge of setting the voting machine results, asks their shadowy middle managers of evil about the final vote percentage breakdown. Shadowy middle managers reply: "We need convincing victory. Use percentage of Putin's re-election."
And so 2016 ends comically, weirdly, and in fire. Fortunately, I'm far away from the fighting in the cities so no one will disturb my quality guacamole time. Unfortunately, with the barricades, roadblocks, and warlords between me and any state which produces avocados, it will be years before I ever see guacamole again.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:31 PM on November 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hours earlier in Moscow, the hacking team, in charge of setting the voting machine results, asks their shadowy middle managers of evil about the final vote percentage breakdown. Shadowy middle managers reply: "We need convincing victory. Use percentage of Putin's re-election."
And so 2016 ends comically, weirdly, and in fire. Fortunately, I'm far away from the fighting in the cities so no one will disturb my quality guacamole time. Unfortunately, with the barricades, roadblocks, and warlords between me and any state which produces avocados, it will be years before I ever see guacamole again.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:31 PM on November 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
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posted by chavenet at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016 [9 favorites]