No new information for those who have been paying attention.
January 7, 2017 7:42 AM Subscribe
A day after the release of the declassified report on Russian hacking during the 2016 election, the New York Times is reporting this morning on the business deals of Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. In Washington, Congressional Republicans seem to be supporting Trump's campaign promise to build a border wall between the US and Mexico, even though it seems that American taxpayers will be the ones fronting the money to pay for it. Mr. Trump, with 13 days to go before he assumes the presidency, is tweeting about the "stupid" people, or fools, would think that [having a good relationship with Russia] is bad! He will purportedly give a press conference this week, on January 11, following President Obama's Farewell Address, on January 10. A number of confirmation hearings will also take place on the 11th.
Mother Jones is reporting on "The Brutal (and Fact-Checked) Numbers on Killing Obamacare": "More than 23 million people could lose coverage. And the superrich will get a $197,000 tax cut."
CNN: In their own words: The story of covering Election Night 2016: "Conservative radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt, who voted for Trump, thought he voted for the loser. "I didn't see it coming. Anybody who says they did, I think they're lying," he said."
Rachel Maddow: "Donald Trump lied to us about what the intelligence report on Russia says" (video)
NYT Opinion: Giving Mr. Trump’s Nominees a Pass: So far, the only nominees known to have filed complete 278s and signed ethics agreement letters are Senator Jeff Sessions, Mr. Trump’s choice for attorney general, whose hearing is set for Tuesday; Rex Tillerson, the Exxon chief picked as secretary of state, whose hearing is scheduled for Wednesday; and Mike Pompeo, the nominee for director of the Central Intelligence Agency, whose hearing is also set for Wednesday. Most of the rest have filed incomplete disclosures, have not yet signed ethics agreement letters or have submitted nothing at all.
Mother Jones is reporting on "The Brutal (and Fact-Checked) Numbers on Killing Obamacare": "More than 23 million people could lose coverage. And the superrich will get a $197,000 tax cut."
CNN: In their own words: The story of covering Election Night 2016: "Conservative radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt, who voted for Trump, thought he voted for the loser. "I didn't see it coming. Anybody who says they did, I think they're lying," he said."
Rachel Maddow: "Donald Trump lied to us about what the intelligence report on Russia says" (video)
NYT Opinion: Giving Mr. Trump’s Nominees a Pass: So far, the only nominees known to have filed complete 278s and signed ethics agreement letters are Senator Jeff Sessions, Mr. Trump’s choice for attorney general, whose hearing is set for Tuesday; Rex Tillerson, the Exxon chief picked as secretary of state, whose hearing is scheduled for Wednesday; and Mike Pompeo, the nominee for director of the Central Intelligence Agency, whose hearing is also set for Wednesday. Most of the rest have filed incomplete disclosures, have not yet signed ethics agreement letters or have submitted nothing at all.
Has there ever been a President so attached to the 24hr cable news shows? If his tweets are indicative of anything, his moods are driven entirely by what's on CNN. Imagine if they all made a pact and said nothing about him for a day. What would happen? Too bad Fox would never get on board.
posted by dis_integration at 7:53 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:53 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Thank you roomthreeseventeen!
A question for folks - now that they've named nominees, can they arbitrarily take them back? I'm thinking of how Mattis keeps rejecting transition team attempts to name appointments inside his department.
posted by corb at 7:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
A question for folks - now that they've named nominees, can they arbitrarily take them back? I'm thinking of how Mattis keeps rejecting transition team attempts to name appointments inside his department.
posted by corb at 7:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Has there ever been a President so...
A question starting with these words in the context of the president-elect can be presumed to have an answer of "no."
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
A question starting with these words in the context of the president-elect can be presumed to have an answer of "no."
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
I wish I had something more substantive to say than "I hate this man"
posted by crush-onastick at 7:57 AM on January 7, 2017 [138 favorites]
posted by crush-onastick at 7:57 AM on January 7, 2017 [138 favorites]
> If his tweets are indicative of anything, his moods are driven entirely by what's on CNN.
When someone is trying to manipulate you, it is unwise to assume his words correlate with his real beliefs. The fact that his words correlate with the 24 hour news cycle only means his manipulation strategy is plucking at a baseline of emotions that a mass of people are plugged into. CNN is nothing more than a shared narrative one can use to build consensus.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:57 AM on January 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
When someone is trying to manipulate you, it is unwise to assume his words correlate with his real beliefs. The fact that his words correlate with the 24 hour news cycle only means his manipulation strategy is plucking at a baseline of emotions that a mass of people are plugged into. CNN is nothing more than a shared narrative one can use to build consensus.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:57 AM on January 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
Probable cost of wall: $20 billion
Amount of money sent to Mexico from the US annually: $23 billion
This could take a while.
posted by Bee'sWing at 7:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Amount of money sent to Mexico from the US annually: $23 billion
This could take a while.
posted by Bee'sWing at 7:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
his manipulation strategy is using the 24 hour news cycle as a source of baseline emotions which a mass of people are plugged into
His entire business strategy -- what he undoubtably thinks of as his "genius" -- has been based on identifying the current or next hot thing and getting a piece of it as early as possible. He's not as good at it as he obviously thinks he is, but I'm sure he has been a media junkie his entire life.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:02 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
His entire business strategy -- what he undoubtably thinks of as his "genius" -- has been based on identifying the current or next hot thing and getting a piece of it as early as possible. He's not as good at it as he obviously thinks he is, but I'm sure he has been a media junkie his entire life.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:02 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
A modest suggestion: just like you append the phrase "in bed" to the end of your fortune cookie fortune, when Trump tweets about Russia add "NO PUPPET!" to the end of it.
posted by peeedro at 8:02 AM on January 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 8:02 AM on January 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
So anyone taking bets on how many days it'll be after the inauguration before tanks start rolling?
posted by Artw at 8:05 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:05 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
In foreign countries or US cities, Artw?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:07 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:07 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
So anyone taking bets on how many days it'll be after the inauguration before tanks start rolling?
Negative 14 days.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:08 AM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Negative 14 days.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:08 AM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Probable cost of wall: $20 billion
Amount of money sent to Mexico from the US annually: $23 billion
This could take a while.
Isn't that the basis of the threat though? Cut off that money flow unless Mexico agrees to send a percentage of it back to the US? At least in AZ a lot of people are worried about how that could play out.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:09 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Amount of money sent to Mexico from the US annually: $23 billion
This could take a while.
Isn't that the basis of the threat though? Cut off that money flow unless Mexico agrees to send a percentage of it back to the US? At least in AZ a lot of people are worried about how that could play out.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:09 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
So anyone taking bets on how many days it'll be after the inauguration before tanks start rolling?
Unpossible. I've been assured by my further-left-than-thou friends that Clinton was th' real war hawk and we'll be safer with Don President.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2017 [62 favorites]
Unpossible. I've been assured by my further-left-than-thou friends that Clinton was th' real war hawk and we'll be safer with Don President.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2017 [62 favorites]
Was rather thinking of the Russian tanks. US tanks are for show only.
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know about the US, but the UK cable infrastructure isn't the most robust thing in the world. Vandalism to pavement distribution boxes can and does knock out people's cable feeds for a while - and that's without thinking about how well-secured the systems are to digital attacks. So I wonder if we'll see some naughty people having a go at things like that. I daresay that if things get to significant civil unrest, we'll find out.
Meanwhile, the No Money For The Right protest movement in Germany seems to be going well in its bid to get German companies to pull advertising from Breitbart, and I hope that the latest hate propaganda ('fake news' is nowhere near accurate enough) pushes that forward. How well will they have to do before being condemned in a Trumptweet?
posted by Devonian at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Meanwhile, the No Money For The Right protest movement in Germany seems to be going well in its bid to get German companies to pull advertising from Breitbart, and I hope that the latest hate propaganda ('fake news' is nowhere near accurate enough) pushes that forward. How well will they have to do before being condemned in a Trumptweet?
posted by Devonian at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
The title of this post is a tautology...
posted by steeringwheel at 8:12 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by steeringwheel at 8:12 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unpossible. I've been assured by my further-left-than-thou friends that Clinton was th' real war hawk and we'll be safer with Don President.
Well, it's pretty clear that Don's boss is going to have him sit on his hands whilevwhstever Russian expansionism happens goes on, possibly bleating some RT approved lines about how those countries wanted to be Russian anyway, so in a *sense* they are right. What happens if there's pushback and escalation despite America holding back is another question.
posted by Artw at 8:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, it's pretty clear that Don's boss is going to have him sit on his hands whilevwhstever Russian expansionism happens goes on, possibly bleating some RT approved lines about how those countries wanted to be Russian anyway, so in a *sense* they are right. What happens if there's pushback and escalation despite America holding back is another question.
posted by Artw at 8:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
An open question to MeFites more knowledgeable than I:
Has it gone well, historically, for chief executives who fight with their intelligence agencies?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:15 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Has it gone well, historically, for chief executives who fight with their intelligence agencies?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:15 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Isn't that the basis of the threat though? Cut off that money flow unless Mexico agrees to send a percentage of it back to the US?
I'm assuming that Trump means to tax the transfers. It would take a long time if the tax was low enough that people would continue doing it that way.
posted by Bee'sWing at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm assuming that Trump means to tax the transfers. It would take a long time if the tax was low enough that people would continue doing it that way.
posted by Bee'sWing at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Among the many things this country doesn't need is a president with the mind of a twelve-year-old boy.
posted by tommasz at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
The first scenario I can think of involves a purge of various intelligence agencies, leaving a lot of skilled free agents around to be plucked up by whoever has the money to hire them, and a lot of craptacular yes-men ideologues left doing actual defense work.
That seems terrible for everybody.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
That seems terrible for everybody.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I wish I had something more substantive to say than "I hate this man"
How about "I hate this, man"?
posted by sexyrobot at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [52 favorites]
How about "I hate this, man"?
posted by sexyrobot at 8:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [52 favorites]
How about "I hate this, man"?posted by pxe2000 at 8:19 AM on January 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
FEELS BAD, MAN
This is all making me nauseous :
What is directly evident, right on the surface is bad enough - Trump has told us he will try to reverse everything the Obama administration accomplished. Even taking into account that Obama has not been fantastically perfectly perfect at all - he's been a great president.
What freaks me out is whatever I don't know, but which pops its head up every now and then. Trump's pissing on the intelligence community (can that in anyway have anodyne results? Why, aside from the somewhat obvious 'because they have the goods on you,' would Trump possibly poke that bear?) Then Obama's vaguely frantic re-shuffeling of troops to back up NATO forces. Possibly reorganizing the protocol for nuclear launches... They give the impression that measures (vaguely frantic and desperate) need to be taken to maintain the stability of the world...
It's messing with my sleep
posted by From Bklyn at 8:20 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
What is directly evident, right on the surface is bad enough - Trump has told us he will try to reverse everything the Obama administration accomplished. Even taking into account that Obama has not been fantastically perfectly perfect at all - he's been a great president.
What freaks me out is whatever I don't know, but which pops its head up every now and then. Trump's pissing on the intelligence community (can that in anyway have anodyne results? Why, aside from the somewhat obvious 'because they have the goods on you,' would Trump possibly poke that bear?) Then Obama's vaguely frantic re-shuffeling of troops to back up NATO forces. Possibly reorganizing the protocol for nuclear launches... They give the impression that measures (vaguely frantic and desperate) need to be taken to maintain the stability of the world...
It's messing with my sleep
posted by From Bklyn at 8:20 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
So here's a tantalizing tidbit that hasn't gotten much attention yet. When the NYT first published their story on the DNI report it read quite differently than it does now, even changing the headline. After about 20 minutes it got a nearly complete rewrite & deleted something quite interesting: in 2015 GCHQ detected the DNC breach & altered the US (presumably NSA). Here's how NewsDiff saw it go down.
Also the British tabloid the Mirror is somewhat connecting the dots between the DNC hack & a failed Russian hack of servers for the British Home Office, Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence. It's not conclusive about that but it's quite suggestive.
posted by scalefree at 8:21 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Also the British tabloid the Mirror is somewhat connecting the dots between the DNC hack & a failed Russian hack of servers for the British Home Office, Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence. It's not conclusive about that but it's quite suggestive.
posted by scalefree at 8:21 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
How sad is it that I initially did a double take thinking it meant a party about the country being over.
@Evan_McMullin:
Country over party!
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on January 7, 2017 [90 favorites]
@Evan_McMullin:
Country over party!
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on January 7, 2017 [90 favorites]
Our main hope is that the various Breitbart and Nazi goons won't know what levers to pull and what to do with them, making the purge ineffective, and that the absence of real intelligence does not allow too much hostile action by terrorists/hostile powers/etc... etc...
Worst case is they fuck up security entirely, America suffers a big attack of some kind, and they use that to kick off a really big purge.
posted by Artw at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Worst case is they fuck up security entirely, America suffers a big attack of some kind, and they use that to kick off a really big purge.
posted by Artw at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh & also here's a report on the Gmail/Podesta attacks by SecureWorks, a security consulting arm of Dell, that's quite relevant.
posted by scalefree at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Man I really do think it's time for a spontaneous Country-Over Party conclusion to this film, a la 80s Rodney Dangerfield films. Evan will be our Rodney.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:25 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:25 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Putin's strategy of vote interference with Brexit and Trump seems to be a pattern to cut off the US and UK from Europe, for a near-term invasion goal, before his older military equipment decays anymore perhaps. The CIA is responsible for alerting others and preventing this from happening, so neutralizing them now would be a major priority.
posted by Brian B. at 8:27 AM on January 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Brian B. at 8:27 AM on January 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
Man I really do think it's time for a spontaneous Country-Over Party conclusion to this film, a la 80s Rodney Dangerfield films. Evan will be our Rodney.
yeah, the buttoned-up CIA guy is a great stand-in for the slobs in this slobs vs. snobs comedy
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:28 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
yeah, the buttoned-up CIA guy is a great stand-in for the slobs in this slobs vs. snobs comedy
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:28 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not Exactly a Gish Gallop -- Maybe We Should Call it a Trump Tropt
Still, that's a lot of bamboozlement in eight minutes. Should we call this a Gish Gallop? [...]posted by tonycpsu at 8:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
The difference here is that many of Trump's points have some truth to them -- the China hack really happened; the FBI did say that the DNC refused to give the Bureau access to its servers (but only after the DNC said the FBI never asked for access); and Donna Brazile did inform the Clinton campaign about debate questions (though this happened during the primaries, long before Clinton was running against Trump). However, none of this is relevant to the question of whether the Russians did serious damage to electoral democracy in the U.S. It's like trying to get out of a speeding ticket by saying your next-door neighbor is a drunk and your cousin is having an affair. Even if both assertions are true, you were still speeding.
So this isn't exactly a Gish Gallop. Let's call it the Trump Trot instead. Trump lies incessantly, as we know, but he's deceitful even when he's not lying. He bombards the media with truths and half-truths that are irrelevant and meant to confuse. And he's going to keep doing this for the next four years.
Thumbing your nose at the deep state before you even take office is a recipe for disaster.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 8:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
At least some small pleasures are left: Watching Jon Chait and David Frum get owned for their feckless stupidity over and over again on Twitter, for instance.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:32 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:32 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, even if the next administration starts using the Armageddon Rule to clean house at the intel agencies, I'm betting some thumb drives with a lot of, er, "metadata" on one Donald J. Trump are going to be leaving the building along with the sacked spooks.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:33 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:33 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Putin's strategy of vote interference with Brexit and Trump seems to be a pattern to cut off the US and UK from Europe
He's planning on much more than that. His ultimate objective seems to be to splinter the US in much the same way as happened to the USSR, using secession movements in California & Texas.
posted by scalefree at 8:34 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
He's planning on much more than that. His ultimate objective seems to be to splinter the US in much the same way as happened to the USSR, using secession movements in California & Texas.
posted by scalefree at 8:34 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
FBI did say that the DNC refused to give the Bureau access to its servers (but only after the DNC said the FBI never asked for access)
Given the anti-Clinton fervor of the New York FBI Field Office I can understand why DNC didn't invite them over for tea & forensics.
posted by scalefree at 8:39 AM on January 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
Given the anti-Clinton fervor of the New York FBI Field Office I can understand why DNC didn't invite them over for tea & forensics.
posted by scalefree at 8:39 AM on January 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
now that they've named nominees, can they arbitrarily take them back?
Yup
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yup
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Deep state took out Nixon. Sad that we're reduced to them as probably our best institutional hope, but here we are.
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
I largely checked out of the last few election threads for mental health issues. The degree of hopelessness was crippling and I just had to walk away for awhile. I've started re-engaging in this shit-show by calling my new rep and long-time senator to show support. With that said, the hopelessness is still with me because I can't believe the country is steadily walking towards a future where a man-child elected by 47% of the electorate with the documented help of a foreign country's intelligence agencies will be installed in just two short weeks. This is a fucking nightmare. How is this still happening with everything we now know?
posted by photoslob at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [91 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [91 favorites]
A major attack is practically inevitable.
Especially since there's now a shit ton of unsecured targets around the world with the president's name all over them.
posted by chris24 at 8:43 AM on January 7, 2017 [72 favorites]
Especially since there's now a shit ton of unsecured targets around the world with the president's name all over them.
posted by chris24 at 8:43 AM on January 7, 2017 [72 favorites]
Despite all available evidence I am hoping Democrats will not match themselves into the gaschambers post whatever big attack occurs in the name of "unity", possibly because it will be done in a blatant and hamfisted way.
posted by Artw at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah, even if the next administration starts using the Armageddon Rule to clean house at the intel agencies,
Just so we're clear, the Holman Rule allows Representatives to attach amendments that target the salaries of individual Federal employees to bills (which bills+amendments must then be passed into law in the usual manner). It does not give the "next administration" the power to do so.
posted by notyou at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just so we're clear, the Holman Rule allows Representatives to attach amendments that target the salaries of individual Federal employees to bills (which bills+amendments must then be passed into law in the usual manner). It does not give the "next administration" the power to do so.
posted by notyou at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, even if the next administration starts using the Armageddon Rule to clean house at the intel agencies
Intel agency employees generally don't get civil service protections and can be fired at will by the President, so the "Armageddon rule" is largely irrelevant.
posted by grobstein at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Intel agency employees generally don't get civil service protections and can be fired at will by the President, so the "Armageddon rule" is largely irrelevant.
posted by grobstein at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
the odds are extremely fucking high of a major attack
Especially since terrorists understand that a self-destructive overreaction will be all but guaranteed.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:47 AM on January 7, 2017 [74 favorites]
Especially since terrorists understand that a self-destructive overreaction will be all but guaranteed.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:47 AM on January 7, 2017 [74 favorites]
It's probably wrong to think this, but I can't stop thinking about it: pissing off the intelligence community is probably a good way to get shot. Either someone makes it look like an accident, or they look the other way on some intelligence. It is not in his best interest not to at least pretend to listen to, like, the CIA, also known as "the people the US uses to overthrow the governments of other countries clandestinely, who are in charge of the President's personal security." I mean, probably nothing will happen, but it's seems like an obvious thing to not fuck around with.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:48 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:48 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
I have a policy of avoiding political threads in the interest of serenity; That said, I'll just add to the discussion the severe economic malaise. I have been paying keen attention to reporting in this area, and Trump et. al are clearly being narratively positioned as 'fall guys.'
As a Democrat, I personally think, 'hey that's great.' Except as a human being, for all the suffering that puts in the pipeline for all the rest of us.
As to whether or not the US 'Intelligence Community' (a term that I find absolutely vile-- These people are our spies, our torturers, our intelligence analysts, etc. and by and large, they have done a lousy job. They are not a homespun group of pals sitting around a BBQ having fundraisers for orphans a la 'A Community.') will be complicit in constructing this next narrative chapter, I vote 'Yes, of course.'
posted by mrdaneri at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
As a Democrat, I personally think, 'hey that's great.' Except as a human being, for all the suffering that puts in the pipeline for all the rest of us.
As to whether or not the US 'Intelligence Community' (a term that I find absolutely vile-- These people are our spies, our torturers, our intelligence analysts, etc. and by and large, they have done a lousy job. They are not a homespun group of pals sitting around a BBQ having fundraisers for orphans a la 'A Community.') will be complicit in constructing this next narrative chapter, I vote 'Yes, of course.'
posted by mrdaneri at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's probably wrong to think this, but I can't stop thinking about it: pissing off the intelligence community is probably a good way to get shot.
TBH that sort of thing is just an elaborate version of "NeverTrump will stop him!"
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
TBH that sort of thing is just an elaborate version of "NeverTrump will stop him!"
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ignoring the intelligence community worked out super-good for Dubya.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Intel agency employees generally don't get civil service protections and can be fired at will by the President, so the "Armageddon rule" is largely irrelevant.
I think this is more aimed at the lists of climate change researchers & women's health workers they've been trying to compile. Most of them probably are protected civil servants.
posted by scalefree at 8:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think this is more aimed at the lists of climate change researchers & women's health workers they've been trying to compile. Most of them probably are protected civil servants.
posted by scalefree at 8:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, it's not going to come to anything. It's another rule that this guy gets to break, for some reason.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wish the media would stop reprinting that man's stupid Tweets. Press conference, interview, or no coverage.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [52 favorites]
An open question to MeFites more knowledgeable than I:
Has it gone well, historically, for chief executives who fight with their intelligence agencies?
This is a question that needs more clarification. "Has it gone well, historically for chief executives who fight with their intelligence agencies with the public actually knowing that a fight is going on
Hard to answer because spats usually don't have a public face or the public face of it is very obscured. Tend to learn, like Nixon, that something went down after the fact. This one is so glaringly obvious that something is happening that it's a bit of anomoly.
posted by Jalliah at 8:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wish the media would stop reprinting that man's stupid Tweets. Press conference, interview, or no coverage.
The problem is that Trump does seem to be, so far, conducting policy on Twitter. Like the time he pissed China off. These are news-worthy things because other countries are going to react to his shit.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
The problem is that Trump does seem to be, so far, conducting policy on Twitter. Like the time he pissed China off. These are news-worthy things because other countries are going to react to his shit.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Has it gone well, historically, for chief executives who fight with their intelligence agencies?
The two examples I can think of are Eisenhower, who famously invented the phrase "military industrial complex," & JFK. One went better than the other. Ike said his bit on his way out the door though, so not much value in going after him.
posted by scalefree at 8:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
The two examples I can think of are Eisenhower, who famously invented the phrase "military industrial complex," & JFK. One went better than the other. Ike said his bit on his way out the door though, so not much value in going after him.
posted by scalefree at 8:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
From the Kushner article: Such is his influence in the geopolitical realm that transition officials have told the Obama White House that foreign policy matters that need to be brought to Mr. Trump’s attention should be relayed through his son-in-law, according to a person close to the transition and a government official with direct knowledge of the arrangemen
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:57 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:57 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
things trump cares enough about to tweet himself: tv ratings
things aides have to tweet about for him: son’s birthday, tragic mass shooting
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [50 favorites]
things aides have to tweet about for him: son’s birthday, tragic mass shooting
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [50 favorites]
> It does not give the "next administration" the power to do so.
If you think there's going to be a dime's worth of difference between what Trump wants to do and what the GOP-controlled Congress is spoon-feeding him, well, I see no reason for such optimism, but okay.
> Intel agency employees generally don't get civil service protections and can be fired at will by the President, so the "Armageddon rule" is largely irrelevant.
This is untrue. They still retain some some protections with excepted service status, just not the same level of protection as other civil servants. They can still appeal firing decisions after a probationary period. Whether in practice this amounts to a rubber stamp likely depends on how the board who reviews those appeals is staffed in the Trump administration, though, so...
posted by tonycpsu at 8:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you think there's going to be a dime's worth of difference between what Trump wants to do and what the GOP-controlled Congress is spoon-feeding him, well, I see no reason for such optimism, but okay.
> Intel agency employees generally don't get civil service protections and can be fired at will by the President, so the "Armageddon rule" is largely irrelevant.
This is untrue. They still retain some some protections with excepted service status, just not the same level of protection as other civil servants. They can still appeal firing decisions after a probationary period. Whether in practice this amounts to a rubber stamp likely depends on how the board who reviews those appeals is staffed in the Trump administration, though, so...
posted by tonycpsu at 8:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Politico: Donald Trump and the top editors of Condé Nast's magazines talked about everything from abortion to Russia in a meeting at the company's headquarters at 1 World Trade Center in New York on Friday.
Sources who were either present at the meeting or briefed on it described the questions from editors as tough but said there were no fireworks. According to one participant who requested anonymity because the meeting was off-the-record, the "questions were sharp" covering race, hate crimes, Russia, Putin, climate change, women, feminism and abortion, but it "wasn't personal."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:59 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sources who were either present at the meeting or briefed on it described the questions from editors as tough but said there were no fireworks. According to one participant who requested anonymity because the meeting was off-the-record, the "questions were sharp" covering race, hate crimes, Russia, Putin, climate change, women, feminism and abortion, but it "wasn't personal."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:59 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I hope whoever at Condé Nast had the power to record and release these meetings never has a good night's sleep again. Same goes for all the other off-the-record discussions he's had with the press lately instead of press conferences.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:02 AM on January 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:02 AM on January 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
> the meeting was off-the-record
Doing It Wrong, Journalism Edition
posted by tonycpsu at 9:03 AM on January 7, 2017 [78 favorites]
Doing It Wrong, Journalism Edition
posted by tonycpsu at 9:03 AM on January 7, 2017 [78 favorites]
Among the many things this country doesn't need is a president with the mind of a twelve-year-old boy
This is incredibly rude to 12 year old boys. I tried to think of another living organism I would rather compare him to but I couldn't think of anything I dislike enough.
posted by billiebee at 9:04 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
This is incredibly rude to 12 year old boys. I tried to think of another living organism I would rather compare him to but I couldn't think of anything I dislike enough.
posted by billiebee at 9:04 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
I wish the media would stop reprinting that man's stupid Tweets.
Ruth Marcus, WaPo: The huge challenge of covering Trump fairly
Trump critics have also argued for disregarding — or at least, not constantly responding to — his tweets, on the theory that his goal is often as much to distract as it is to inform or, more likely, inflame. Here, again, deducing motive seems awfully subjective — and ignoring presidential commentary unwise, in whatever format it is delivered.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:09 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ruth Marcus, WaPo: The huge challenge of covering Trump fairly
Trump critics have also argued for disregarding — or at least, not constantly responding to — his tweets, on the theory that his goal is often as much to distract as it is to inform or, more likely, inflame. Here, again, deducing motive seems awfully subjective — and ignoring presidential commentary unwise, in whatever format it is delivered.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:09 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ruth Marcus, WaPo: The huge challenge of covering Trump fairly
AKA "holy god this fucker is so awful how on earth do we spin him to look good to give the appearance of 'balance'"
AKA not by doing anything any moral person could sleep at night after doing.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
AKA "holy god this fucker is so awful how on earth do we spin him to look good to give the appearance of 'balance'"
AKA not by doing anything any moral person could sleep at night after doing.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you think there's going to be a dime's worth of difference between what Trump wants to do and what the GOP-controlled Congress is spoon-feeding him, well, I see no reason for such optimism, but okay.
I do think there will be fissures between Congress and the White House and places where cooperation breaks down. But that's irrelevant to my clarification. The Holman Rule, as awful as it is, applies to Congress, and it features the usual cumbersome legislative hurdles. It's important to keep the details straight and to remain optimistic, both as observers, and as potential supporters of efforts to defend targeted employees.
posted by notyou at 9:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I do think there will be fissures between Congress and the White House and places where cooperation breaks down. But that's irrelevant to my clarification. The Holman Rule, as awful as it is, applies to Congress, and it features the usual cumbersome legislative hurdles. It's important to keep the details straight and to remain optimistic, both as observers, and as potential supporters of efforts to defend targeted employees.
posted by notyou at 9:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
now that they've named nominees, can they arbitrarily take them back?
Given the advanced ages of many of them I expect some will die before even taking office.
posted by srboisvert at 9:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Given the advanced ages of many of them I expect some will die before even taking office.
posted by srboisvert at 9:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not covering the tweets that's the problem, it's when they're only covering the tweets at the expense of what's going on behind the curtain. The tweets are news, especially the outrageous ones -- but it shouldn't be "Trump tweeted this" it should be "The Trump administration did the following horrible things..." and then "in what could be viewed as an attempt to change the subject from these horrible things, Donald Trump got into a Twitter beef with a mediocre movie star and disgraced ex-Governor of California."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:16 AM on January 7, 2017 [88 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:16 AM on January 7, 2017 [88 favorites]
I do wonder how many of the nominees of the parasitic oligarch sort are actually going to want to put in the work of oppressing us. Of course leaving those positions essentially empty may be harmful in its own way too.
posted by Artw at 9:18 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:18 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
New Scientist (free reg req) on the Midnight Rules Relief Act of 2017 and the Regulations from the Executive in Need of Scrutiny Act, which basically turn off evidence-based policy.
The US Congress is back in session, and it seems they have had enough of experts, too. The new Republican-led House of Representatives votes this week on two bills that would effectively toss out evidence-based reasoning from the process of deciding which regulations to enforce. If passed, the bills could undermine everything from rules about clean water to the Endangered Species Act.
“It’s replacing a science-based process with a political process,” says Andrew Rosenberg, director of the Center for Science and Democracy at the Union of Concerned Scientists in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Supporters of the bills are talking about cutting through bureaucracy and increasing transparency, but the provisions could effectively give Congress licence to shut down or ignore research around regulations..
Lots more detail in the article, if you can bear it.
posted by Devonian at 9:21 AM on January 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
The US Congress is back in session, and it seems they have had enough of experts, too. The new Republican-led House of Representatives votes this week on two bills that would effectively toss out evidence-based reasoning from the process of deciding which regulations to enforce. If passed, the bills could undermine everything from rules about clean water to the Endangered Species Act.
“It’s replacing a science-based process with a political process,” says Andrew Rosenberg, director of the Center for Science and Democracy at the Union of Concerned Scientists in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Supporters of the bills are talking about cutting through bureaucracy and increasing transparency, but the provisions could effectively give Congress licence to shut down or ignore research around regulations..
Lots more detail in the article, if you can bear it.
posted by Devonian at 9:21 AM on January 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
How much do Trumpsuckers think that illegal immigrants from the south cost this country? More than $20 Billion? Seems like the wall would cost more than it's worth , even if you were dumb enough to think it was a good idea.
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:22 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:22 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The abandonment of science is what our descendants (if there be any) will curse us for above all else.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:22 AM on January 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:22 AM on January 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
As the totality of Trump's eradication of Obama's legacy comes into focus I've been wondering more about what might possibly come next. Assume that the overall system does survive and we continue into future elections with the same general structure. We're basically now looking at every party swap coming with a total ground up reformat and reinstall of the government. Look at it this way: Trump's doing it now, so that means that even if the "good guys" win next time around, they'll have to do it in turn to eliminate all of his work, at which point we're well into "both sides do it!" territory. Programs with decades-plus time horizons have already been a bit of a joke but now it seems like we can basically forget everything which won't be completed or irrevocably begun within the context of a single party's administration. The only way I can see this not happening is if it goes so badly that the general population is forced to consider it in truth, and even then...
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:23 AM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:23 AM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
NYT Jared Kushner, a Trump In-Law and Adviser, Chases a Chinese Deal
Indeed, despite a lack of foreign policy experience, Mr. Kushner is emerging as an important figure at a crucial moment for some of America’s most complicated diplomatic relationships. Such is his influence in the geopolitical realm that transition officials have told the Obama White House that foreign policy matters that need to be brought to Mr. Trump’s attention should be relayed through his son-in-law, according to a person close to the transition and a government official with direct knowledge of the arrangement.posted by zachlipton at 9:27 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
So when the Chinese ambassador to the United States called the White House in early December to express what one official called China’s “deep displeasure” at Mr. Trump’s break with longstanding diplomatic tradition by speaking by phone with the president of Taiwan, the White House did not call the president-elect’s national security team. Instead, it relayed that information through Mr. Kushner, whose company was not only in the midst of discussions with Anbang but also has Chinese investors.
> How much do Trumpsuckers think that illegal immigrants from the south cost this country? More than $20 Billion? Seems like the wall would cost more than it's worth , even if you were dumb enough to think it was a good idea.
PISSING OFF LIBTARDS - PRICELESS
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:31 AM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
PISSING OFF LIBTARDS - PRICELESS
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:31 AM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
How much do Trumpsuckers think that illegal immigrants from the south cost this country? More than $20 Billion?
Undocumented immigrants pay $13 billion each year to Social Security and only take out $1 billion in benefits. So they don't cost us anything, they benefit us.
posted by chris24 at 9:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
Undocumented immigrants pay $13 billion each year to Social Security and only take out $1 billion in benefits. So they don't cost us anything, they benefit us.
posted by chris24 at 9:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
Most of the rest have filed incomplete disclosures, have not yet signed ethics agreement letters or have submitted nothing at all.
More on this: Senate Confirmation Hearings to Begin Without All Background Checks
You can read the letter from the head of the Office of Government Ethics (of newfound Twitter fame): "I am not aware of any ocassion in the four decades since OGE was established when the Senate held a confirmation hearing before the nominee had completed the ethics review process"
posted by zachlipton at 9:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
More on this: Senate Confirmation Hearings to Begin Without All Background Checks
You can read the letter from the head of the Office of Government Ethics (of newfound Twitter fame): "I am not aware of any ocassion in the four decades since OGE was established when the Senate held a confirmation hearing before the nominee had completed the ethics review process"
posted by zachlipton at 9:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
I personally cannot wait until someone explains to the Trump economic team that Mexico is one of our largest trading partners (~531B bidirectional) and we currently have a (-58.7B deficit) in their favor.
So, just in economic terms, the US taxpayer is on the hook for the wall. Three times over. Just to balance the books to 'even.'
I'm out for my weekend breakfast burrito, doubtlessly prepared by hardworking migrants who will remit 60% of their takehome pay to N. Mexican agricultural provinces decimated by a half-century of US foreign relations. Maybe I'll skip the sour cream.
posted by mrdaneri at 9:37 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
So, just in economic terms, the US taxpayer is on the hook for the wall. Three times over. Just to balance the books to 'even.'
I'm out for my weekend breakfast burrito, doubtlessly prepared by hardworking migrants who will remit 60% of their takehome pay to N. Mexican agricultural provinces decimated by a half-century of US foreign relations. Maybe I'll skip the sour cream.
posted by mrdaneri at 9:37 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
What some economic commentators in foreign news sources (broadcast in the US) tend to notice about Trump is that his arguments are stuck in the 1980's or 90's. He never updated his information and he often rambles about Chinese currency and Japan imports, which aren't relevant. His 1980's supply-side great wall idea stupidly assumes that people shouldn't be verified for employment over networks, for example. He believes that cheap money should be borrowed in good economic times to goose the economy, rather than taxed. He basically sees the middle-class as his enemy because he only needs the working class and the wealthy class to achieve his goals.
posted by Brian B. at 9:37 AM on January 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Brian B. at 9:37 AM on January 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
What some economic commentators in foreign news sources (broadcast in the US) tend to notice about Trump is that his arguments are stuck in the 1980's or 90's
He is unable to accept his own physical decline and mortality and therefore his world is forever the world in which he feels he had the greatest intersection of power and physical personal appearance. About 1987?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
He is unable to accept his own physical decline and mortality and therefore his world is forever the world in which he feels he had the greatest intersection of power and physical personal appearance. About 1987?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
He hires the best people.
Trump national security pick Monica Crowley plagiarized multiple sources in 2012 book
"Conservative author and television personality Monica Crowley, whom Donald Trump has tapped for a top national security communications role, plagiarized large sections of her 2012 book, a CNN KFile review has found.
The review of Crowley’s June 2012 book, "What The (Bleep) Just Happened," found upwards of 50 examples of plagiarism from numerous sources, including the copying with minor changes of news articles, other columnists, think tanks, and Wikipedia. The New York Times bestseller, published by the HarperCollins imprint Broadside Books, contains no notes or bibliography."
posted by chris24 at 9:42 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump national security pick Monica Crowley plagiarized multiple sources in 2012 book
"Conservative author and television personality Monica Crowley, whom Donald Trump has tapped for a top national security communications role, plagiarized large sections of her 2012 book, a CNN KFile review has found.
The review of Crowley’s June 2012 book, "What The (Bleep) Just Happened," found upwards of 50 examples of plagiarism from numerous sources, including the copying with minor changes of news articles, other columnists, think tanks, and Wikipedia. The New York Times bestseller, published by the HarperCollins imprint Broadside Books, contains no notes or bibliography."
posted by chris24 at 9:42 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Mr. Wu and Mr. Kushner — who is married to Mr. Trump’s daughter Ivanka and is one of his closest advisers — were nearing agreement on a joint venture in Manhattan: the redevelopment of 666 Fifth Avenue
So we're dealing with a mashup of The Manchurian Candidate and Rosemary's Baby here?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:43 AM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
So we're dealing with a mashup of The Manchurian Candidate and Rosemary's Baby here?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:43 AM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
Among the many things this country doesn't need is a president with the mind of a twelve-year-old boy
This is incredibly rude to 12 year old boys.
yeah, by the time I was eleven, I was reading adult books. I'm thinking we're dealing with a ten year old mind at best.
posted by philip-random at 9:44 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is incredibly rude to 12 year old boys.
yeah, by the time I was eleven, I was reading adult books. I'm thinking we're dealing with a ten year old mind at best.
posted by philip-random at 9:44 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
My seven and a half year old nephew has more compassion in his little finger than Donald Trump has in his body. Which I think is a good quality in a president.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
He is unable to accept his own decline and mortality and therefore his world is forever the world in which he feels he had the greatest intersection of power and physical personal appearance. About 1987?
Something like that I'm sure there's some sort of psychology going on. And it's not like people like this are somehow uncommon. I know a lot of older people who just seem like they're stuck in a certain time period of their lives. One set of my Grandparents were like this. They never seemed to get past the world of their 40s and 50s. My other Grandparents weren't like this.
It's seems that certain types of people get to some point in their life cycle and just stop learning and assimilating current information.
posted by Jalliah at 9:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
Something like that I'm sure there's some sort of psychology going on. And it's not like people like this are somehow uncommon. I know a lot of older people who just seem like they're stuck in a certain time period of their lives. One set of my Grandparents were like this. They never seemed to get past the world of their 40s and 50s. My other Grandparents weren't like this.
It's seems that certain types of people get to some point in their life cycle and just stop learning and assimilating current information.
posted by Jalliah at 9:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
What some economic commentators in foreign news sources (broadcast in the US) tend to notice about Trump is that his arguments are stuck in the 1980's or 90's. He never updated his information and he often rambles about Chinese currency and Japan imports, which aren't relevant. His 1980's supply-side great wall idea stupidly assumes that people shouldn't be verified for employment over networks, for example. He believes that cheap money should be borrowed in good economic times to goose the economy, rather than taxed. He basically sees the middle-class as his enemy because he only needs the working class and the wealthy class to achieve his goals.
This is bang on. Would also add: between 2009 and 2014 there was a net migration of 140,000 people FROM the United States TO Mexico, so the migration trends of the 80s, 90s and early 00s no longer apply. Because it's the PRESENT DAY.
But Trump's weird 80s callbacks leave me wondering if Robin Leach is going to emerge from retirement to profile the first family.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
This is bang on. Would also add: between 2009 and 2014 there was a net migration of 140,000 people FROM the United States TO Mexico, so the migration trends of the 80s, 90s and early 00s no longer apply. Because it's the PRESENT DAY.
But Trump's weird 80s callbacks leave me wondering if Robin Leach is going to emerge from retirement to profile the first family.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Russia spreading fake news and forged docs in Sweden: report (The Local.se)
In the study, which is published in the Journal of Strategic Studies, Kragh argues that over the past few years, Russia has increasingly been returning to what the KGB historically referred to as “active measures” to impact public opinion in Sweden.
According the report, “active measures” are designed “to hamper the target country’s ability to generate public support in pursuing its policies”.
Such measures have included the Russian government deploying troll armies on Swedish Twitter, launching its own Swedish language news site Sputnik, and spreading fake documents, 26 of which Kragh has identified.
posted by Devonian at 9:52 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
In the study, which is published in the Journal of Strategic Studies, Kragh argues that over the past few years, Russia has increasingly been returning to what the KGB historically referred to as “active measures” to impact public opinion in Sweden.
According the report, “active measures” are designed “to hamper the target country’s ability to generate public support in pursuing its policies”.
Such measures have included the Russian government deploying troll armies on Swedish Twitter, launching its own Swedish language news site Sputnik, and spreading fake documents, 26 of which Kragh has identified.
posted by Devonian at 9:52 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
The problem with Donald a Trump isn't that he has a child's mind and temperament. It's that sadly he has an adult mind and temperament.
posted by dng at 9:54 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dng at 9:54 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Undocumented immigrants pay $13 billion each year to Social Security and only take out $1 billion in benefits. So they don't cost us anything, they benefit us ...because we collectively steal their wages and then call them criminals and lawbreakers.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on January 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on January 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
He has an adult pathological narcissist mind and temperament, which comes off as child like because children go through stages of types of narcissism as they are developing and the majority mature out of it. So aspects of it seem familiar.
posted by Jalliah at 9:59 AM on January 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 9:59 AM on January 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
Fight hard. Drink more. Stash money. Always know where the nearest exits are wherever you go. Keep your loved ones close. Plan for the worst case scenarios. Keep the real American spirit alive until it's buried, aflame or underwater. And when it all goes to shit, line up with your fellow reality-based citizens in one last WE FUCKING TOLD YOU so from sea to surging sea.
posted by delfin at 10:01 AM on January 7, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by delfin at 10:01 AM on January 7, 2017 [56 favorites]
He basically sees the middle-class as his enemy because he only needs the working class and the wealthy class to achieve his goals.
The labor of the working class, votes from the middle class, benefits to the wealthy class. Trumpism is Republicanism, stripped of its veneer.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
The labor of the working class, votes from the middle class, benefits to the wealthy class. Trumpism is Republicanism, stripped of its veneer.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
So, uh, could Roberts just decide not to administer the Oath of Office?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:08 AM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:08 AM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Never Trump!
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mandolin Conspiracy Just to back this up with anecdote; I have seen this in my 'business life.'
I just finished up my third gig cycle in the SV-- for the first time I was approached by Mexican firms in TJ, Monterrey, and Mexico City. That had literally never happened before. My Español is roughly at the level of a 'bright and friendly' three year old.
I have 'heard it through the grapevine' that TJ is popping, from a startup perspective, cartels and governmental wobbles be damned.
posted by mrdaneri at 10:11 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just finished up my third gig cycle in the SV-- for the first time I was approached by Mexican firms in TJ, Monterrey, and Mexico City. That had literally never happened before. My Español is roughly at the level of a 'bright and friendly' three year old.
I have 'heard it through the grapevine' that TJ is popping, from a startup perspective, cartels and governmental wobbles be damned.
posted by mrdaneri at 10:11 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
fuse theorem: "Isn't that the basis of the threat though? Cut off that money flow unless Mexico agrees to send a percentage of it back to the US?"
The version I saw during the campaign was threaten to impose ID requirements on wire transfers, and "Mexico" will gladly pay a one-time cost for a wall. And I put "Mexico" in quotes because Mexico is not a homogeneous unit. If you acknowledge the plan is to make the Mexican government pay for something by threatening individual residents of Mexico, then you can't just go, "Oh, well this number is bigger."
And that's not even mentioning the question of what percentage of wire transfers would really be cut off by imposing ID requirements, which they just kind of hand-wave and say "a lot of them." But there's also probably a lot of U.S. citizens and legal immigrants who would be capable of meeting these ID requirements who have legitimate business with Mexican residents. And a lot of people who can't meet those ID requirements would find some other means of sending money to Mexican residents.
On the other hand, I could be doing a bunch of fact-checking on what Hannah Arendt would point out is only a declaration of intent, with no factual content. Their stated intention is to build a wall, and possibly to impose ID requirements on wire transfers. The fact that the claimed rationale for imposing ID requirements doesn't hold up to examination could just mean they don't want to say aloud their real reasons for that intention.
posted by RobotHero at 10:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
The version I saw during the campaign was threaten to impose ID requirements on wire transfers, and "Mexico" will gladly pay a one-time cost for a wall. And I put "Mexico" in quotes because Mexico is not a homogeneous unit. If you acknowledge the plan is to make the Mexican government pay for something by threatening individual residents of Mexico, then you can't just go, "Oh, well this number is bigger."
And that's not even mentioning the question of what percentage of wire transfers would really be cut off by imposing ID requirements, which they just kind of hand-wave and say "a lot of them." But there's also probably a lot of U.S. citizens and legal immigrants who would be capable of meeting these ID requirements who have legitimate business with Mexican residents. And a lot of people who can't meet those ID requirements would find some other means of sending money to Mexican residents.
On the other hand, I could be doing a bunch of fact-checking on what Hannah Arendt would point out is only a declaration of intent, with no factual content. Their stated intention is to build a wall, and possibly to impose ID requirements on wire transfers. The fact that the claimed rationale for imposing ID requirements doesn't hold up to examination could just mean they don't want to say aloud their real reasons for that intention.
posted by RobotHero at 10:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Not to derail but if you need a palate cleanser after the latest round of "Well, here's more disturbing reportage on the Trump family," if you follow Devonian's link to the Russian documents story on the local.se site above you'll find it also contains an update on the mouse restaurant in Malmö, the subject of this previous FPP.
Aw.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled horrorshow.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Aw.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled horrorshow.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I see no downsides to creating a massive clandestine crossborder money trade.
posted by Artw at 10:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:17 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Vicente Fox on Twitter [real]:
TRUMP, when will you understand that I am not paying for that fucken wall. Be clear with US tax payers. They will pay for it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:18 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
TRUMP, when will you understand that I am not paying for that fucken wall. Be clear with US tax payers. They will pay for it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:18 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
So, uh, could Roberts just decide not to administer the Oath of Office?
I believe that any federal judge can administer the Oath if necessary. Still, it would be a nod to anti-normalization that I would welcome if some random circuit judge had to be dragged out of somewhere to do the formalities.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:19 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I believe that any federal judge can administer the Oath if necessary. Still, it would be a nod to anti-normalization that I would welcome if some random circuit judge had to be dragged out of somewhere to do the formalities.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:19 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Where is Ghost of Scalia when you need him?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:21 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:21 AM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know why anyone would think Roberts would give up the chance to place a capstone on his life's work of ensuring only conservative white Christian men can vote or hold office.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:22 AM on January 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:22 AM on January 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
Vicente Fox on Twitter [real]:
TRUMP, when will you understand that I am not paying for that fucken wall. Be clear with US tax payers. They will pay for it.
The one that came after this is a much better troll.
Sr Trump,the intelligence report is devastating.Losing election by more than 3M votes and in addition this.Are you a legitimate president?
At least three extremely pressure sensitive buttons pressed in that one. Not bad for 140 character limit. Would have been almost perfect if he had used "Sr Donald"
posted by Jalliah at 10:24 AM on January 7, 2017 [91 favorites]
Agreed, Jalliah. The missing 'Sr. Donald' is the only thing that could have made that literally the most optimum use of bandwidth.
posted by mrdaneri at 10:25 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mrdaneri at 10:25 AM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Most of the rest have filed incomplete disclosures, have not yet signed ethics agreement letters or have submitted nothing at all.
From yesterday's Friday-newscycle-friendly FOIA dump from the Office of Government Ethics:
Ethics Office Couldn't Contact Top Trump Aides After Election (Politico) "The federal government's ethics watchdog had difficulty reaching top aides to President-elect Donald Trump for ten days or more after the November election, according to government records released Friday. Email traffic shows that Office of Government Ethics Director Walter Shaub had various discussions with Trump's transition planners prior to the Nov. 8 vote, but could not contact Trump lawyer Don McGahn during a period in mid-November."
U.S. Ethics Office Struggled to Gain Access to Trump Team, Emails Show (NBC) "While the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request sought materials about Trump's potential divestment from his company, that topic rarely arose in the materials, which included some redacted email. Bradley Moss, a federal employment lawyer who oversaw the FOIA request, said that absence was concerning. 'Conspicuously absent is any evidence of the preparations allegedly being undertaken by President-Elect Trump to resolve potential conflicts of interest through some manner of divestment,' Moss said. 'If the President-Elect's lawyers and compliance officers are not coordinating with OGE, who, if anyone, within the government are they coordinating on these matters?' he asked."
Whether this is an instance of stonewalling or incompetence, failing to perform basic preparations for governing is clearly a hallmark of the Trump administration.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
From yesterday's Friday-newscycle-friendly FOIA dump from the Office of Government Ethics:
Ethics Office Couldn't Contact Top Trump Aides After Election (Politico) "The federal government's ethics watchdog had difficulty reaching top aides to President-elect Donald Trump for ten days or more after the November election, according to government records released Friday. Email traffic shows that Office of Government Ethics Director Walter Shaub had various discussions with Trump's transition planners prior to the Nov. 8 vote, but could not contact Trump lawyer Don McGahn during a period in mid-November."
U.S. Ethics Office Struggled to Gain Access to Trump Team, Emails Show (NBC) "While the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request sought materials about Trump's potential divestment from his company, that topic rarely arose in the materials, which included some redacted email. Bradley Moss, a federal employment lawyer who oversaw the FOIA request, said that absence was concerning. 'Conspicuously absent is any evidence of the preparations allegedly being undertaken by President-Elect Trump to resolve potential conflicts of interest through some manner of divestment,' Moss said. 'If the President-Elect's lawyers and compliance officers are not coordinating with OGE, who, if anyone, within the government are they coordinating on these matters?' he asked."
Whether this is an instance of stonewalling or incompetence, failing to perform basic preparations for governing is clearly a hallmark of the Trump administration.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
The challenge for our elected officials will be to resist calls for unity behind the crackdown on civil liberties that will follow. They need to hit Trump HARD when this inevitably happens, because it will be 100% his fucking fault. The challenge to us is to hold our own elected officials accountable for naming Trump and his cabinet as the responsible parties.
To borrow a line from Arrow, if/when the time comes, I want to see front pages of newspapers with Trump's photo on them paired with the headline YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:38 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
To borrow a line from Arrow, if/when the time comes, I want to see front pages of newspapers with Trump's photo on them paired with the headline YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:38 AM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
At the risk of being flippant in the face of unfolding horror, I'm beginning to wonder if Trump's approach to Russia is somehow a spectacular attempt at real-life retcon fanfic: an effort to ensure that the setting of Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium future history actually comes to pass.
(There may actually be something to this. I do wonder if, in fact, Trump's approach is simply to treat global geopolitics as a business issue where he gets USA Inc to form a cartel with Russia Inc by which they carve up their respective business empires and agree to jointly crush all the competition.)
posted by Major Clanger at 10:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
(There may actually be something to this. I do wonder if, in fact, Trump's approach is simply to treat global geopolitics as a business issue where he gets USA Inc to form a cartel with Russia Inc by which they carve up their respective business empires and agree to jointly crush all the competition.)
posted by Major Clanger at 10:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Whether this is an instance of stonewalling or incompetence
Es los dos. ES LOS DOS, DAMNIT!
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Es los dos. ES LOS DOS, DAMNIT!
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:51 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Servo5678 Or, will it be like the late Weimar Republic with joyous crowds in St. Louis standing outside a recently opened Raytheon AIM-9x assembly factory?
Headlines of 'YOU SAVED THIS CITY!'?
posted by mrdaneri at 10:52 AM on January 7, 2017
Headlines of 'YOU SAVED THIS CITY!'?
posted by mrdaneri at 10:52 AM on January 7, 2017
What I am very interested in know is if there are any aggressive people at our intelligence agencies. What I'm saying is, Trump is going to need something more than a report that says "Attack by [ISIS/Skeletor/Whoever] imminent]" in his daily/monthly briefing, because god knows he isn't a reader. We need someone to call his ass, or Tweet it, every 10 minutes. And then call Mattis, or whoever.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:56 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Make it look like a DM from Alex Jones.
posted by Artw at 10:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Make it look like a DM from Alex Jones.
The scary thing is that since (per somewhere in the last thread) Trump apparently just goes ahead and answers his personal cell phone with no verification about whom he's actually speaking to, anyone with access to that number could conceivably impersonate someone. And I'm sure he could easily get sucked into some kind of phishing attack... except that I have the feeling he doesn't use email at all.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:05 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
The scary thing is that since (per somewhere in the last thread) Trump apparently just goes ahead and answers his personal cell phone with no verification about whom he's actually speaking to, anyone with access to that number could conceivably impersonate someone. And I'm sure he could easily get sucked into some kind of phishing attack... except that I have the feeling he doesn't use email at all.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:05 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Does Joe Biden make funny voice crank calls? Because I have a feeling he does.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:07 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:07 AM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Trump is going to need something more than a report that says "Attack by [ISIS/Skeletor/Whoever] imminent]" in his daily/monthly briefing, because god knows he isn't a reader.
The Bush administration ignored such messages prior to 9/11 for what amount to ideological reasons. Essentially they thought remnants of the Clinton administration's counter-terrorism apparatus were crying wolf in order to gain influence and resources. They really believed the whole counter-terrorism thing was a boondoggle.
In a situation like that creative/aggressive messaging can't amount to much, because the key issues are trust and incompatible worldviews.
posted by Coventry at 11:11 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Bush administration ignored such messages prior to 9/11 for what amount to ideological reasons. Essentially they thought remnants of the Clinton administration's counter-terrorism apparatus were crying wolf in order to gain influence and resources. They really believed the whole counter-terrorism thing was a boondoggle.
In a situation like that creative/aggressive messaging can't amount to much, because the key issues are trust and incompatible worldviews.
posted by Coventry at 11:11 AM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trumpism is Republicanism, stripped of its veneer.
That's why I distrust continued efforts to court wayward conservatives. Sure there's scattered Never Trumpers out there, but I view them more as craven opportunists (see: Beck, Glenn) rather than "good" Republicans - whose representatives are y'know, still deep down free-market, warhawk, anti-choice ghouls.
When it mattered Republicans overwhelmingly fell in line, and the vast majority will continue to do so. Because Trump is a Republican. He's a coarser, more unhinged one, to be sure, and he's a serial liar on a grander scale than the most lying liar who ever lied for the GOP before. But he was telling the truth about one thing - he could shoot somebody in the street and it wouldn't affect his support. He can admit to sexual assault, or being a crook. Dems can make a million more memes of Trump kissing Putin, and it won't sway Republicans (or galvanize Democrats) because Trump is pure Republican ideals, and Republicans support Republicans. That's the advantage of an authoritarian party who has found their autocrat.
posted by joechip at 11:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [73 favorites]
That's why I distrust continued efforts to court wayward conservatives. Sure there's scattered Never Trumpers out there, but I view them more as craven opportunists (see: Beck, Glenn) rather than "good" Republicans - whose representatives are y'know, still deep down free-market, warhawk, anti-choice ghouls.
When it mattered Republicans overwhelmingly fell in line, and the vast majority will continue to do so. Because Trump is a Republican. He's a coarser, more unhinged one, to be sure, and he's a serial liar on a grander scale than the most lying liar who ever lied for the GOP before. But he was telling the truth about one thing - he could shoot somebody in the street and it wouldn't affect his support. He can admit to sexual assault, or being a crook. Dems can make a million more memes of Trump kissing Putin, and it won't sway Republicans (or galvanize Democrats) because Trump is pure Republican ideals, and Republicans support Republicans. That's the advantage of an authoritarian party who has found their autocrat.
posted by joechip at 11:14 AM on January 7, 2017 [73 favorites]
Was rather thinking of the Russian tanks. US tanks are for show only.
My own totally amateur hot take on this is that I won't be surprised to see tanks in the Ukraine as early as this spring. I don't have any evidence for that, but striking while Donnie's mancrush is hot and the Congress is occupied by sweeping away the remnants of the 20th century would be an ideal time to do something that Putin has never denied wanting to do. As for the rest of Europe, I expect that Russia will prefer the dividends paid by tractable governments and economic domination over the costs of actual military and political domination. Maybe "treaties of friendship" will be insisted on. Remarkably, a pan-European "Finlandization" is exactly the scenario US conservatives used to warn about when US conservatives cared about Europe.
an effort to ensure that the setting of Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium future history actually comes to pass
I was just thinking about that the other day. I have no idea what Pournelle is up to these days or if he's Trumpista and I'm a little alarmed to go look and see.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:26 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
My own totally amateur hot take on this is that I won't be surprised to see tanks in the Ukraine as early as this spring. I don't have any evidence for that, but striking while Donnie's mancrush is hot and the Congress is occupied by sweeping away the remnants of the 20th century would be an ideal time to do something that Putin has never denied wanting to do. As for the rest of Europe, I expect that Russia will prefer the dividends paid by tractable governments and economic domination over the costs of actual military and political domination. Maybe "treaties of friendship" will be insisted on. Remarkably, a pan-European "Finlandization" is exactly the scenario US conservatives used to warn about when US conservatives cared about Europe.
an effort to ensure that the setting of Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium future history actually comes to pass
I was just thinking about that the other day. I have no idea what Pournelle is up to these days or if he's Trumpista and I'm a little alarmed to go look and see.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:26 AM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is incredibly rude to 12 year old boys.I agree. I think 14-year-old is closer (male or female). That's when kids decide to read Ayn Rand and think they know better than everyone, and get high on mouthing off and making wisecracks. The thing is, 14-year-olds can function pretty well, well enough that they don't have to give up their hobbyhorses as adults. I'm thinking Paul Ryan, for example.
Just came back from a Washington March meeting. As someone of a certain age and had thought I was safe retiring, I agree with what a speaker said, which was, "Here we go again."
posted by Peach at 11:27 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
The version I saw during the campaign was threaten to impose ID requirements on wire transfers
Oh goodness golly that sounds like it would be totally impossible to get around by having the gringo boss or some other honkey make those transfers instead yes indeedydoody.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:28 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh goodness golly that sounds like it would be totally impossible to get around by having the gringo boss or some other honkey make those transfers instead yes indeedydoody.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:28 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
The scary thing is that since (per somewhere in the last thread) Trump apparently just goes ahead and answers his personal cell phone with no verification about whom he's actually speaking to, anyone with access to that number could conceivably impersonate someone.
There's no possible way Trump will have access to his mobile post-inauguration, right? Obama couldn't use anything except an NSA-constructed phone once he was in office (and wasn't that how Clinton ended up starting her own email server when she couldn't have one too?)
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's no possible way Trump will have access to his mobile post-inauguration, right? Obama couldn't use anything except an NSA-constructed phone once he was in office (and wasn't that how Clinton ended up starting her own email server when she couldn't have one too?)
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:29 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
it won't sway Republicans (or galvanize Democrats)
We lost in part because we didn't get enough of our people to the voting booths*. That's another problem, because their people do, and we can't necessarily count on Trump's incompetence and broken promises to turn people against him. We'll need to find a way to galvanize our base, unify, and fight as one the way they do, because they're consistently better than us at that. A distressing number of liberal-leaning voters I met (albeit mostly white) were apathetic at best about Hillary. The Indivisible document I've seen being passed around looks like a good start. To have a hope in hell of winning again, we have to galvanize Democrats the way Republicans have galvanized themselves.
* I'm also aware that voter suppression targeting minorities in R states and R gerrymandering contributed to this situation, will probably worsen under Donald, and that's harder to fight directly.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:30 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
We lost in part because we didn't get enough of our people to the voting booths*. That's another problem, because their people do, and we can't necessarily count on Trump's incompetence and broken promises to turn people against him. We'll need to find a way to galvanize our base, unify, and fight as one the way they do, because they're consistently better than us at that. A distressing number of liberal-leaning voters I met (albeit mostly white) were apathetic at best about Hillary. The Indivisible document I've seen being passed around looks like a good start. To have a hope in hell of winning again, we have to galvanize Democrats the way Republicans have galvanized themselves.
* I'm also aware that voter suppression targeting minorities in R states and R gerrymandering contributed to this situation, will probably worsen under Donald, and that's harder to fight directly.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:30 AM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh goodness golly that sounds like it would be totally impossible to get around by having the gringo boss or some other honkey make those transfers instead yes indeedydoody.
And when said gringo or honky gets pulled in on conspiracy to commit money laundering charges?
I'm pretty sure the current Congress and Administration are not beyond being that petty.
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
And when said gringo or honky gets pulled in on conspiracy to commit money laundering charges?
I'm pretty sure the current Congress and Administration are not beyond being that petty.
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Remarkably, a pan-European "Finlandization" is exactly the scenario US conservatives used to warn about when US conservatives cared about Europe.
These other countries aren't facing the disparity that Finland faced; Germany or France alone could put together a military (if they wanted to) that could crush conventional Russian forces and Poland could put one together that could easily resist any credible Russian attack.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
These other countries aren't facing the disparity that Finland faced; Germany or France alone could put together a military (if they wanted to) that could crush conventional Russian forces and Poland could put one together that could easily resist any credible Russian attack.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump national security pick Monica Crowley plagiarized multiple sources in 2012 book
I have seen with my own eyes wingnut email "FWD: Fwd: FWD:" chains that were passed on by Monica Crowley. As you can imagine, I am not surprised by her attitude towards sourcing.
posted by holgate at 11:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I have seen with my own eyes wingnut email "FWD: Fwd: FWD:" chains that were passed on by Monica Crowley. As you can imagine, I am not surprised by her attitude towards sourcing.
posted by holgate at 11:36 AM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Charles Pierce: My Two Minds Are at War Over Trump's Beef with the C.I.A. The "intelligence community" is capable of the worst behavior, but can anyone else keep the president-elect honest?
Let's Check in with the Ratings Machine, DJT. Some fresh hell for your Friday.
'Mad Dog' Mattis Isn't Going to Yield. Will Trump? The president-elect might be regretting his choice for Secretary of Defense.
Happy New Year From Your Friend Vladimir Putin. He's in better shape than a 400-pound basement hacker.
posted by homunculus at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Let's Check in with the Ratings Machine, DJT. Some fresh hell for your Friday.
'Mad Dog' Mattis Isn't Going to Yield. Will Trump? The president-elect might be regretting his choice for Secretary of Defense.
Happy New Year From Your Friend Vladimir Putin. He's in better shape than a 400-pound basement hacker.
posted by homunculus at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Just so we're clear, the Holman Rule allows Representatives to attach amendments that target the salaries of individual Federal employees to bills (which bills+amendments must then be passed into law in the usual manner). It does not give the "next administration" the power to do so.
...and the last time they actually tried to use it, in the 1940s, they were promptly told they couldn't do that because the prohibition against bills of attainder is still a thing.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
...and the last time they actually tried to use it, in the 1940s, they were promptly told they couldn't do that because the prohibition against bills of attainder is still a thing.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Does Joe Biden make funny voice crank calls? Because I have a feeling he does.
I actually would hope that someone with this information didn't give it to some shock jock who's going to ask Trump if his refrigerator is running, and instead to someone who would draw him into a deeply embarrassing and emasculating conversation, that would somehow (how, I don't know) break this cult of personality that he's developed and open up space for the adults to take back the conversation.
Actually, and I cannot fully believe I am saying this, this might be a job for Howard Stern.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
I actually would hope that someone with this information didn't give it to some shock jock who's going to ask Trump if his refrigerator is running, and instead to someone who would draw him into a deeply embarrassing and emasculating conversation, that would somehow (how, I don't know) break this cult of personality that he's developed and open up space for the adults to take back the conversation.
Actually, and I cannot fully believe I am saying this, this might be a job for Howard Stern.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:40 AM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
There's no possible way Trump will have access to his mobile post-inauguration, right? Obama couldn't use anything except an NSA-constructed phone once he was in office (and wasn't that how Clinton ended up starting her own email server when she couldn't have one too?)
Trump will refuse to hand his over and will probably win the ensuing fight.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:41 AM on January 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Trump will refuse to hand his over and will probably win the ensuing fight.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:41 AM on January 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
...and the last time they actually tried to use it, in the 1940s, they were promptly told they couldn't do that because the prohibition against bills of attainder is still a thing.
It more and more feels like we're going back, not to the 1950s or to the 1870s, but to the 1500s.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It more and more feels like we're going back, not to the 1950s or to the 1870s, but to the 1500s.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, uh, could Roberts just decide not to administer the Oath of Office?
There is no legal specification as to who is to administer the oath of office. That it is done by the Chief Justice is tradition, not legal requirement. Trump could be sworn in by Scott Baio, if he wanted.
(When LBJ took the oath aboard Air Force One following Kennedy's assassination, it was administered by Federal District Judge Sarah T. Hughes.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:43 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is no legal specification as to who is to administer the oath of office. That it is done by the Chief Justice is tradition, not legal requirement. Trump could be sworn in by Scott Baio, if he wanted.
(When LBJ took the oath aboard Air Force One following Kennedy's assassination, it was administered by Federal District Judge Sarah T. Hughes.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:43 AM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
One of the most confusing, frustrating, and appalling things about Trump is how he keeps winning these battles, even before the election, and so many people consistently give him what he wants or step out of his way without much of a fight. It just emboldens him.
The only explanation I can think of is that the devil looks after his own.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
The only explanation I can think of is that the devil looks after his own.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:46 AM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
Trump could be sworn in by Scott Baio, if he wanted.
So you're saying Charles really could be in charge?
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
So you're saying Charles really could be in charge?
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on January 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
thedarksideofprocyon The only real philosophic stance with any real dignity left is stoicism, but I was recently informed that too, has become tainted by the alt-right. I give up on everything.
posted by mrdaneri at 11:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mrdaneri at 11:50 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's no possible way Trump will have access to his mobile post-inauguration, right?
Who's gonna stop him? Ultimately the restrictions Obama faced were ones that he voluntarily abided by because not doing so would violate some rule or law, or even just he would be a colossal dick for not abiding by them. It's not like someone was going to physically stop him from walking to *looks it up* the CVS on G Street and buying a prepaid burner.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:52 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Who's gonna stop him? Ultimately the restrictions Obama faced were ones that he voluntarily abided by because not doing so would violate some rule or law, or even just he would be a colossal dick for not abiding by them. It's not like someone was going to physically stop him from walking to *looks it up* the CVS on G Street and buying a prepaid burner.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:52 AM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
this might be a job for Howard Stern.
Except that Stern has made most of his business decisions based on advice from Trump and has not realized there's anything wrong with that.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:53 AM on January 7, 2017
Except that Stern has made most of his business decisions based on advice from Trump and has not realized there's anything wrong with that.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:53 AM on January 7, 2017
Say what you will about him, Stern at least produces a product people want to buy. That's a hard criteria for Trump to pass.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:58 AM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are two kinds of forecasters: those who don’t know, and those who don’t know they don’t know
John Kenneth Galbraith
posted by robbyrobs at 12:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
John Kenneth Galbraith
posted by robbyrobs at 12:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
re: Jerry Pournelle
ugh [April 2016] (and it goesn't get any better)
posted by porpoise at 12:01 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
ugh [April 2016] (and it goesn't get any better)
posted by porpoise at 12:01 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
These other countries aren't facing the disparity that Finland faced; Germany or France alone could put together a military (if they wanted to) that could crush conventional Russian forces and Poland could put one together that could easily resist any credible Russian attack.
This is true. Which is why I'm sure Putin would prefer a non-NATO, disunited Europe run by Russia-friendly/Russia-neutral governments that could be dominated economically. Which isn't to say, of course, that he'll get any of this, even if the US does abandon Europe.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:04 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is true. Which is why I'm sure Putin would prefer a non-NATO, disunited Europe run by Russia-friendly/Russia-neutral governments that could be dominated economically. Which isn't to say, of course, that he'll get any of this, even if the US does abandon Europe.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:04 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
The only real philosophic stance with any real dignity left is stoicism, but I was recently informed that too, has become tainted by the alt-right
The alt-right really is like a disease, and like any disease it is unfortunately effective at what it does - corruption, spreading, and getting its slimy tentacles anywhere it can. Corrupting people, corrupting social media, corrupting discourse, using the environment around it to suit its own ends.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:04 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The alt-right really is like a disease, and like any disease it is unfortunately effective at what it does - corruption, spreading, and getting its slimy tentacles anywhere it can. Corrupting people, corrupting social media, corrupting discourse, using the environment around it to suit its own ends.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:04 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Scenario: He keeps his phone cause he's The Donald and the Donald wants too. Donald keeps on just answering it like this article says he does.
How many times is that number going to be leaked? So often I'd expect that they'd constantly have to change the number and all the headaches that come from informing the people you want to have the number. Rinse and repeat times eleventy.
Donald may want it and fight for it but in practice it will likely be barely workable and make his phone pretty much useless and annoying.
posted by Jalliah at 12:05 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Eternal phone number changes, constantly missing important personal calls and getting a new phone, and constant crank calls to DJT: oh my god yes
Can you even imagine how annoyed that will make him? It's a small silver lining.
posted by blnkfrnk at 12:13 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can you even imagine how annoyed that will make him? It's a small silver lining.
posted by blnkfrnk at 12:13 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Which is why I'm sure Putin would prefer a non-NATO, disunited Europe run by Russia-friendly/Russia-neutral governments that could be dominated economically.
That may be what he's thinking, but it still seems stupid in anything but the shortest term. First, how is he going to dominate Germany or France economically? They have way bigger economies on their own. Second, breaking up NATO just seems like a recipe for a really big, nuclearized Bundeswehr. Even if not in response to a Russia, in response to Polish or French expansion out of mistrust of Germany.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:17 PM on January 7, 2017
That may be what he's thinking, but it still seems stupid in anything but the shortest term. First, how is he going to dominate Germany or France economically? They have way bigger economies on their own. Second, breaking up NATO just seems like a recipe for a really big, nuclearized Bundeswehr. Even if not in response to a Russia, in response to Polish or French expansion out of mistrust of Germany.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:17 PM on January 7, 2017
OK, new plan: irritate him into resigning.
Operation Under the Thin Skin: initiated. Prepare the twitter-bots!
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:19 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Operation Under the Thin Skin: initiated. Prepare the twitter-bots!
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:19 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
>Can you even imagine how annoyed that will make him? It's a small silver lining.
The silver lining is that the guy with the nuclear codes and no impulse control will be constantly annoyed?
There might be a glowy cloud, but I'm pretty sure it won't be because of the silver lining.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:21 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
The silver lining is that the guy with the nuclear codes and no impulse control will be constantly annoyed?
There might be a glowy cloud, but I'm pretty sure it won't be because of the silver lining.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:21 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
I've seen no evidence that his tweets or other statements are carefully crafted or otherwise designed to "manipulate". He's just not that smart, clever, or subtle. He's an ignorant, wealthy man who does not know his own limitations, and he unconsciously surrounds himself with people who refuse to tell him. He is governed by his insecurities.
posted by Brocktoon at 12:22 PM on January 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 12:22 PM on January 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
Trump is pretty insistent that Mexico pay for the wall.
Vicente Fox just insulted MangoMan.
US tanks are for show only.
Trump'll show HIM!
posted by BlueHorse at 12:23 PM on January 7, 2017
Vicente Fox just insulted MangoMan.
US tanks are for show only.
Trump'll show HIM!
posted by BlueHorse at 12:23 PM on January 7, 2017
That may be what he's thinking, but it still seems stupid in anything but the shortest term. First, how is he going to dominate Germany or France economically? They have way bigger economies on their own. Second, breaking up NATO just seems like a recipe for a really big, nuclearized Bundeswehr. Even if not in response to a Russia, in response to Polish or French expansion out of mistrust of Germany.
Right now, though, Germany and France have economies that are basically fully integrated with each other and with the rest of Europe. And while the EU is on the one hand reeling from Brexit and a wave of anti-unification sentiment across the continent, if it can withstand the next few elections, it could be on a path to greater integration since the UK will either be out in the cold and unable to do its usual brake-applying, or (if it fails to invoke Article 50) will have to come crawling back to Brussels and won't be in a position to resist further centralization.
A strong and united EU is probably the greatest threat to Russia's ambitions now that the US is effectively neutralized for the next 4-8 years as a competent wielder of force and diplomacy in the world.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:25 PM on January 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
Right now, though, Germany and France have economies that are basically fully integrated with each other and with the rest of Europe. And while the EU is on the one hand reeling from Brexit and a wave of anti-unification sentiment across the continent, if it can withstand the next few elections, it could be on a path to greater integration since the UK will either be out in the cold and unable to do its usual brake-applying, or (if it fails to invoke Article 50) will have to come crawling back to Brussels and won't be in a position to resist further centralization.
A strong and united EU is probably the greatest threat to Russia's ambitions now that the US is effectively neutralized for the next 4-8 years as a competent wielder of force and diplomacy in the world.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:25 PM on January 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
Comments a short way above segue to a question I've had re: twitler. The social media situation is so "unpresidented," both twitler's unhinged ranting, but also that he is doing it in a way anyone can respond instantly.
So I've started to wonder, when people snark back at him online: 1) Do you think the RedHat brownshirts are taking names (for future butt-kickings), and 2) What parameters are being set by his legit security (the Secret Svce.) as to when a sharp snark crosses over from 1st Amendment into a threat?
(I guess this goes for potential phone calls too.)
posted by NorthernLite at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
So I've started to wonder, when people snark back at him online: 1) Do you think the RedHat brownshirts are taking names (for future butt-kickings), and 2) What parameters are being set by his legit security (the Secret Svce.) as to when a sharp snark crosses over from 1st Amendment into a threat?
(I guess this goes for potential phone calls too.)
posted by NorthernLite at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump's image won't be on Inauguration transit card, but Trump team has an alternative
An image of President-elect Donald Trump won’t be on a commemorative Inauguration Day transit card but will appear on a free sleeve that protects the card, officials said Saturday.
The joint announcement by the 2017 Presidential Inaugural Committee and the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority appears to settle the political flap about Trump’s face not being on the commemorative, hard-plastic card, considering President Obama’s was for his 2008 and 2012 inaugurations.
...The transit agency, which runs the country’s second-busiest rapid-transit system, said in December that Trump’s image could not be on the card because “Metro requested permission to use a photo, but received no response from the campaign.”
The photo is ridiculous. It is his tough guy imitation. Or constipated guy. SAD!
posted by futz at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
An image of President-elect Donald Trump won’t be on a commemorative Inauguration Day transit card but will appear on a free sleeve that protects the card, officials said Saturday.
The joint announcement by the 2017 Presidential Inaugural Committee and the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority appears to settle the political flap about Trump’s face not being on the commemorative, hard-plastic card, considering President Obama’s was for his 2008 and 2012 inaugurations.
...The transit agency, which runs the country’s second-busiest rapid-transit system, said in December that Trump’s image could not be on the card because “Metro requested permission to use a photo, but received no response from the campaign.”
The photo is ridiculous. It is his tough guy imitation. Or constipated guy. SAD!
posted by futz at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
the US is effectively neutralized for the next 4-8 years
Is anyone tracking vote counts for potential impeachment? I assume every Democrat would be on board. How many Republicans have said they want to throw stones? It wouldn't take many to reach 2/3rds. And I assume his tax audit is going to provide plenty of grounds for it.
Do you think the RedHat brownshirts are taking names
Of course they are.
posted by Coventry at 12:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is anyone tracking vote counts for potential impeachment? I assume every Democrat would be on board. How many Republicans have said they want to throw stones? It wouldn't take many to reach 2/3rds. And I assume his tax audit is going to provide plenty of grounds for it.
Do you think the RedHat brownshirts are taking names
Of course they are.
posted by Coventry at 12:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Watching Jon Chait and David Frum get owned for their feckless stupidity over and over again on Twitter, for instance.
Can someone flesh this out a bit? I'm not sure what is going on here.
posted by futz at 12:38 PM on January 7, 2017
Can someone flesh this out a bit? I'm not sure what is going on here.
posted by futz at 12:38 PM on January 7, 2017
The photo is ridiculous. It is his tough guy imitation. Or constipated guy. SAD!
And we also now know that it's also partly his this is my 'I'm super sensitive about getting my picture taken with a double chin so I hide it by doing this' pose.
posted by Jalliah at 12:39 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
And we also now know that it's also partly his this is my 'I'm super sensitive about getting my picture taken with a double chin so I hide it by doing this' pose.
posted by Jalliah at 12:39 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
So I've started to wonder, when people snark back at him online: 1) Do you think the RedHat brownshirts are taking names (for future butt-kickings), and 2) What parameters are being set by his legit security (the Secret Svce.) as to when a sharp snark crosses over from 1st Amendment into a threat?
You'd be surprised what qualifies.
Back when I was in college, Bill Clinton was elected Preznit for the first time. A fellow student who happened to be conservative was unimpressed by this, and posted twelve words on Usenet that were remarkable for their candor and wit: FUCK CLINTON, FUCK CLINTON, FUCK CLINTON, KILL CLINTON, KILL CLINTON, KILL CLINTON. Not very pleasant in tone, but hardly a meaningful threat.
The next day, I went to my part-time job in the Engineering department, which ran the campus computer network and Internet feeds. Two Men in Black were having a little chat with the administrator, who promptly summoned the student in question for a longer chat. That was his last statement about Mr. Clinton online for a long, long time.
posted by delfin at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
You'd be surprised what qualifies.
Back when I was in college, Bill Clinton was elected Preznit for the first time. A fellow student who happened to be conservative was unimpressed by this, and posted twelve words on Usenet that were remarkable for their candor and wit: FUCK CLINTON, FUCK CLINTON, FUCK CLINTON, KILL CLINTON, KILL CLINTON, KILL CLINTON. Not very pleasant in tone, but hardly a meaningful threat.
The next day, I went to my part-time job in the Engineering department, which ran the campus computer network and Internet feeds. Two Men in Black were having a little chat with the administrator, who promptly summoned the student in question for a longer chat. That was his last statement about Mr. Clinton online for a long, long time.
posted by delfin at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is anyone tracking vote counts for potential impeachment? I assume every Democrat would be on board. How many Republicans have said they want to throw stones? It wouldn't take many to reach 2/3rds. And I assume his tax audit is going to provide plenty of grounds for it.
(emphasis mine) I'm going to need to see some more evidence for this assertion.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
(emphasis mine) I'm going to need to see some more evidence for this assertion.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
tivalasvegas: I'm mostly assuming that based on the financial sections I've read of The Making of Donald Trump, which is admittedly authored by someone who's spent decades honing his contempt for Trump.
posted by Coventry at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2017
posted by Coventry at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2017
That a significant number of Republican House members are going to vote to impeach the Republican President over a tax filing? Seems... somewhat less evidence-based than, say, the assertion that Russia may have hacked the DNC.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:47 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:47 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know what? Sorry, Coventry. I'm being a jerk for no good reason. I apologize.
Anyway, I don't think it's likely that House Repubs will impeach Trump unless something truly crazy happens. Like, possibly if he launches an unprovoked nuclear attack.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Anyway, I don't think it's likely that House Repubs will impeach Trump unless something truly crazy happens. Like, possibly if he launches an unprovoked nuclear attack.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
The GOP would stick a knife in Donald's back precisely three nanoseconds after he pisses off enough blocs of supporters. Maybe two.
posted by Devonian at 12:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 12:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's very kind of you, tivalasvegas. Thank you.
I believe Republicans may want to impeach him because his goals for health care and fiscal stimulus don't align with theirs. Tax improprieties (or whatever) would merely be the pretext, just like Clinton's perjury and obstructionand of justice charges.
posted by Coventry at 12:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I believe Republicans may want to impeach him because his goals for health care and fiscal stimulus don't align with theirs. Tax improprieties (or whatever) would merely be the pretext, just like Clinton's perjury and obstruction
posted by Coventry at 12:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah. I'm with you there -- if you're saying that they're more likely to impeach him from the right when he compromises on Paul Ryan's Deader Way? But in that case his actions on any particular day ending in -y will suffice for fairly legitimate high crimes & misdemeanors charges.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I believe Republicans may want to impeach him because his goals for health care and fiscal stimulus don't align with theirs.
I believe Trump will sign anything and everything they put in front of him.
posted by Justinian at 1:01 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
I believe Trump will sign anything and everything they put in front of him.
posted by Justinian at 1:01 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
After being threatened with legal action, the National Park Service started releasing permits to allow protests during the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump on January 20...
For one of the groups that will be protesting during the inauguration, this announcement comes too late.
"It makes it very difficult to organize, to tell people that we have a permit, to make the necessary logistical preparations when we only have a permit in hand two weeks before the event," said Ben Becker of the ANSWER Coalition.
Immediately after the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund threatened the National Park Service with legal action, the NPS started releasing permits.
The ANSWER Coalition was the first group to get one. Permits for around 25 other organizations are now being granted.
"Basically, what the Park Service did is, it delegated discretion to Trump's presidential inaugural committee to decide if when or whether people were going to be able to protest Trump," said Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, executive director of the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund. "Now that, we believe, is fundamentally unconstitutional."
Angry
posted by futz at 1:02 PM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
For one of the groups that will be protesting during the inauguration, this announcement comes too late.
"It makes it very difficult to organize, to tell people that we have a permit, to make the necessary logistical preparations when we only have a permit in hand two weeks before the event," said Ben Becker of the ANSWER Coalition.
Immediately after the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund threatened the National Park Service with legal action, the NPS started releasing permits.
The ANSWER Coalition was the first group to get one. Permits for around 25 other organizations are now being granted.
"Basically, what the Park Service did is, it delegated discretion to Trump's presidential inaugural committee to decide if when or whether people were going to be able to protest Trump," said Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, executive director of the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund. "Now that, we believe, is fundamentally unconstitutional."
Angry
posted by futz at 1:02 PM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
I believe Trump will sign anything and everything they put in front of him.
I'm not so sure, Justinian. I think last week showed that Trump will go up against the GOP Congress if he thinks that it'll improve his own reputation, or if he thinks that signing Bill X will be wildly unpopular and will lead to people being mean to him. His intense need for adoration, and his fear -- loathing, even -- of the possibility of rejection are some of the few levers we have against him now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm not so sure, Justinian. I think last week showed that Trump will go up against the GOP Congress if he thinks that it'll improve his own reputation, or if he thinks that signing Bill X will be wildly unpopular and will lead to people being mean to him. His intense need for adoration, and his fear -- loathing, even -- of the possibility of rejection are some of the few levers we have against him now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
delfin, I think the situation today is quite different from the 90's, mostly because of the tremendously increased volume of statements expressing hate for political figures. The Secret Service might track some of it, but even they can't take everything said online seriously these days, or they'd be doing nothing else.
As for Trump, I'm one-hundred-percent certain he'll do something qualifying him for impeachment in four years (a better bet is how long it will be before that happens), but I'm not at all certain the Republicans would go through with it.
posted by Kevin Street at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
As for Trump, I'm one-hundred-percent certain he'll do something qualifying him for impeachment in four years (a better bet is how long it will be before that happens), but I'm not at all certain the Republicans would go through with it.
posted by Kevin Street at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
The photo is ridiculous. It is his tough guy imitation. Or constipated guy. SAD
#MakeAmericaPoopAgain.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
#MakeAmericaPoopAgain.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
#MakeAmericaPoopAgain
You mean, #MakeAmericaGapeAgain.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
You mean, #MakeAmericaGapeAgain.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I believe Trump will sign anything and everything they put in front of him.
If he does that, he's a one-term president.
posted by Coventry at 1:08 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
If he does that, he's a one-term president.
posted by Coventry at 1:08 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
let's all be truly ANGRY during the month of our birth and then have just simmering anger for the other 11 months, to avoid fatigue
Aww, I'm April which means I only get 30 days. Not fair!
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:08 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Aww, I'm April which means I only get 30 days. Not fair!
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:08 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, the Republican plan to gut Medicare and Medicaid will be massively unpopular--particularly with a lot of Trump supporters. People seem to be okay with him lying, but that attitude is likely to change fast if/when his deception hits them where it hurts.
The Republicans might seem to be very strong right now--and of course in some ways they are--but their position is also precarious and fraught with potential pitfalls. Just see the scrambling and infighting that's already been happening with Obamacare.
posted by overglow at 1:15 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Republicans might seem to be very strong right now--and of course in some ways they are--but their position is also precarious and fraught with potential pitfalls. Just see the scrambling and infighting that's already been happening with Obamacare.
posted by overglow at 1:15 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I believe Trump will sign anything and everything they put in front of him.
No, the veto is one of his powers, and he'll want to use it, just for the rush.
posted by thelonius at 1:15 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, the veto is one of his powers, and he'll want to use it, just for the rush.
posted by thelonius at 1:15 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, the veto is one of his powers, and he'll want to use it, just for the rush.
Also for things like 'This congressperson said something about me I didn't like. Now guess what I'm gonna do?"
Veto.
Or 'CNN did report that said I liked Putin and they used that picture I told them not to use. I'm mad. I need to do something. Oh look something on my desk to sign..."
Ha ha ha "veto!'
posted by Jalliah at 1:22 PM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also for things like 'This congressperson said something about me I didn't like. Now guess what I'm gonna do?"
Veto.
Or 'CNN did report that said I liked Putin and they used that picture I told them not to use. I'm mad. I need to do something. Oh look something on my desk to sign..."
Ha ha ha "veto!'
posted by Jalliah at 1:22 PM on January 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
The Trump supporters aren't going to be angry at Trump for impoverishing them and cutting them off from healthcare, that would take self awareness. They're going to be angry at whatever internal enemy he blames that on, and that's when they'll start murder squads.
posted by Artw at 1:22 PM on January 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:22 PM on January 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
"The Trump supporters" are not all the Trump voters, or the voters he'll need to be re-elected (even with further Republican ratfucking the election system). It's going to be a lot more complicated than that. We're at a time when the political game IS "eleven-level chess" and even if I was never convinced that Obama was playing it (or coming anywhere close to winning at it), Trump is incapable of playing a game more complex than Chutes and Ladders.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
His intense need for adoration, and his fear -- loathing, even -- of the possibility of rejection are some of the few levers we have against him now.
With the lack of political experience, need for approval, and need to be seen as a populist "man of the people" he's going to have a hard time not getting mired in extremely small-scale retail politics - stuff like the Carrier thing, going around and focusing on the small scale. I've found that bosses I've had who were Trump-like were the same way, for instance the TV general manager I worked under who would make departments prioritize appeasing a single complaint from a viewer no matter how little that complaint represented the viewership as a whole or if addressing that complaint would actually be detrimental to the viewership as a whole. And I always thought, if anyone ever wanted to run that TV station into the ground, overwhelming the GM with viewer complaints would be the way to go, sending him into a frenzy of trying to address every one and directing station resources in chaotic fashion to do so. If there's a way to get past Trump gatekeepers with "oh please Mr. Trump, you're the only one who can fix this!" requests that he thinks would make good PR you could probably bog him down the same way, or watch him twist into entirely new policy positions that conflict with all the others he espouses because he doesn't have an ideological center.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
With the lack of political experience, need for approval, and need to be seen as a populist "man of the people" he's going to have a hard time not getting mired in extremely small-scale retail politics - stuff like the Carrier thing, going around and focusing on the small scale. I've found that bosses I've had who were Trump-like were the same way, for instance the TV general manager I worked under who would make departments prioritize appeasing a single complaint from a viewer no matter how little that complaint represented the viewership as a whole or if addressing that complaint would actually be detrimental to the viewership as a whole. And I always thought, if anyone ever wanted to run that TV station into the ground, overwhelming the GM with viewer complaints would be the way to go, sending him into a frenzy of trying to address every one and directing station resources in chaotic fashion to do so. If there's a way to get past Trump gatekeepers with "oh please Mr. Trump, you're the only one who can fix this!" requests that he thinks would make good PR you could probably bog him down the same way, or watch him twist into entirely new policy positions that conflict with all the others he espouses because he doesn't have an ideological center.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
Eleven dimension chess is as easy for fascists as any other game - if it looks like the other player might touch the board you smash their hands with a hammer.
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
We're at a time when the political game IS "eleven-level chess" and even if I was never convinced that Obama was playing it (or coming anywhere close to winning at it), Trump is incapable of playing a game more complex than Chutes and Ladders.
The worry is, you don't need to be good at strategy if you're willing to cheat and/or knock over the game board.
Put differently, I don't think Trump can govern successfully and hold on to power through persuasion and coalition building. So I think he might resort to blackmail, extortion, and threats. Horseheads in beds, etc. We already saw some of this in the Republican primary, up to and including the delegate intimidation that Corb witnessed (and that Roger Stone was terrifyingly public about.)
If he is willing to resort to those tactics, his skill or lack thereof matters a lot less.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:37 PM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
The worry is, you don't need to be good at strategy if you're willing to cheat and/or knock over the game board.
Put differently, I don't think Trump can govern successfully and hold on to power through persuasion and coalition building. So I think he might resort to blackmail, extortion, and threats. Horseheads in beds, etc. We already saw some of this in the Republican primary, up to and including the delegate intimidation that Corb witnessed (and that Roger Stone was terrifyingly public about.)
If he is willing to resort to those tactics, his skill or lack thereof matters a lot less.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:37 PM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
re: his phone
the press is morally obligated to relabel and reframe it as: "trump's private mobile device."
the first time he deletes or modifies a tweet, he needs to get sued for a records act violation. would an arbitrary citizen have standing?
posted by j_curiouser at 1:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
the press is morally obligated to relabel and reframe it as: "trump's private mobile device."
the first time he deletes or modifies a tweet, he needs to get sued for a records act violation. would an arbitrary citizen have standing?
posted by j_curiouser at 1:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
Can someone flesh this out a bit? I'm not sure what is going on here.
Jon Chait is a supposedly liberal columnist who never stops whining about college kids and their safe spaces. He full-throatedly supported the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands of people. He urged liberals to give Bush a chance.
David Frum is a senior editor of The Atlantic. During the Bush administration, he wrote speeches for the president. He coined the phrase "Axis of Evil" and was, unsurprisingly, a great booster of the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands of people.
The people in those tweets are making fun of both men for supporting the war and Frum for working for George W. Bush, whose death can't come soon enough. For some reason, both men insist that Trump's brand of conservatism is an alien and uniquely loathsome incursion into American politics.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Jon Chait is a supposedly liberal columnist who never stops whining about college kids and their safe spaces. He full-throatedly supported the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands of people. He urged liberals to give Bush a chance.
David Frum is a senior editor of The Atlantic. During the Bush administration, he wrote speeches for the president. He coined the phrase "Axis of Evil" and was, unsurprisingly, a great booster of the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands of people.
The people in those tweets are making fun of both men for supporting the war and Frum for working for George W. Bush, whose death can't come soon enough. For some reason, both men insist that Trump's brand of conservatism is an alien and uniquely loathsome incursion into American politics.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Hillary Clinton's e-mail server was set up entirely because she wanted to continue to use her own phone while in office as Secretary of State. It will be pretty damn ironic if Trump continues using his.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
I think you're totally right, OnceUponATime, and pointing to the way Republican politics are very much dominance games... And also there's a cost to that strategy, which is that your "allies" don't actually like you and will increasingly resent you. And likely look for both subtle ways to hurt and weaken you and also big opportunities to reverse the power dynamics.
Governing by grudge goes both ways, in other words.
posted by overglow at 1:44 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Governing by grudge goes both ways, in other words.
posted by overglow at 1:44 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I feel a massive headache coming on. Think I'll have it for the next 4 years.
posted by Soliloquy at 1:45 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 1:45 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I feel a massive headache coming on. Think I'll have it for the next 4 years.
PSA: Remember to alternate your drinks with water!
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
PSA: Remember to alternate your drinks with water!
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Governing by grudge turns your administration into something that operates like the mafia, or a drug cartel. Displays of loyalty and dominance punctuated by violent power struggles. That's what I'm expecting from the Trump administration.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
As long as Trump is useful the Republicans will bend over backwards to ignore any of his behavior.
Republicans are in politics for one reason and one reason only.
To funnel U.S. tax dollars to their benefactors. That's it. They could dismantle every part of the federal government but one thing would keep working.
The collection of and distribution of our tax dollars.
We are entering an era of inherent lawlessness at the highest levels of power in one of our two major political parties. Nothing they do has legitimacy.
How much longer are you willing to "consent to be governed" by this ethically and morally bankrupt party?
posted by Max Power at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Republicans are in politics for one reason and one reason only.
To funnel U.S. tax dollars to their benefactors. That's it. They could dismantle every part of the federal government but one thing would keep working.
The collection of and distribution of our tax dollars.
We are entering an era of inherent lawlessness at the highest levels of power in one of our two major political parties. Nothing they do has legitimacy.
How much longer are you willing to "consent to be governed" by this ethically and morally bankrupt party?
posted by Max Power at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Imagine a world in which everyone unfollows him on twitter.
I do wonder how many of his current 19 million followers are bots.
posted by wondermouse at 1:48 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I do wonder how many of his current 19 million followers are bots.
posted by wondermouse at 1:48 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
PSA: Remember to alternate your drinks with water!
and vice versa, it goes without saying.
posted by philip-random at 1:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
and vice versa, it goes without saying.
posted by philip-random at 1:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
What's the Democratic agenda for 2017-2021 besides (mostly futile) "no"? Democrats did No Child Left Behind under George W. Bush, the Americans with Disabilities Act under George H.W. Bush, the Immigration Reform Act and the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 under Reagan, and a huge raft of environmental lawmaking under Nixon (Endangered Species Act, Clean Air Act, creation of the EPA, among others).
posted by MattD at 1:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by MattD at 1:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is anyone tracking vote counts for potential impeachment? I assume every Democrat would be on board.
No, they won't. He'll have to actually do something substantial while in office to get the majority Democrats on board with impeachment. There's enough Obama style rule of law Democrats that will want to play the game as close to proper as possible that there will not be a consensus the way the Republicans worked to impeach Clinton. Unless he does something overt like launching an unprovoked military action (which despite the fears here I think is pretty unlikely), they're going to give him a pass on things like the DC hotel.
I assume his tax audit is going to provide plenty of grounds for it.
I'm quite certain that this will never see the light of day for the next four years and probably never. If there are findings of impropriety, the fines will be paid and the issue will be made to go away.
posted by Candleman at 1:53 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
No, they won't. He'll have to actually do something substantial while in office to get the majority Democrats on board with impeachment. There's enough Obama style rule of law Democrats that will want to play the game as close to proper as possible that there will not be a consensus the way the Republicans worked to impeach Clinton. Unless he does something overt like launching an unprovoked military action (which despite the fears here I think is pretty unlikely), they're going to give him a pass on things like the DC hotel.
I assume his tax audit is going to provide plenty of grounds for it.
I'm quite certain that this will never see the light of day for the next four years and probably never. If there are findings of impropriety, the fines will be paid and the issue will be made to go away.
posted by Candleman at 1:53 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Imagine a world in which everyone unfollows him on twitter.
I like to imagine a world where Twitter decides 'too much' and bans him.
More realistic though is a world where Twitter finally throws in the towel and shuts down. More likely is some other company will take it over as it circles the toilet though.
posted by Jalliah at 1:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
I like to imagine a world where Twitter decides 'too much' and bans him.
More realistic though is a world where Twitter finally throws in the towel and shuts down. More likely is some other company will take it over as it circles the toilet though.
posted by Jalliah at 1:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wish the media would stop reprinting that man's stupid Tweets...
Fight hard. Drink more. Stash money.
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a tweet.
So, uh, could Roberts just decide not to administer the Oath of Office?
I genuinely wonder whether Trump is capable of repeating the words of the oath, some of which have several syllables. I imagine he's been practising.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 1:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fight hard. Drink more. Stash money.
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a tweet.
So, uh, could Roberts just decide not to administer the Oath of Office?
I genuinely wonder whether Trump is capable of repeating the words of the oath, some of which have several syllables. I imagine he's been practising.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 1:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm quite certain that this will never see the light of day for the next four years and probably never.
An IRS employee leaked Nixon's tax returns. That seems like a predictable outcome, if Trump tries to shut down the audit.
posted by Coventry at 2:09 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
An IRS employee leaked Nixon's tax returns. That seems like a predictable outcome, if Trump tries to shut down the audit.
posted by Coventry at 2:09 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's the Democratic agenda for 2017-2021 besides (mostly futile) "no"?
Legislatively, you should address that question to the majority party. If the GOP wants to do anything other than return the country to the 18th century, then I, for one, wouldn't object to bipartisan legislation. But if, as it appears now, the Republican agenda is to raze the country and salt the ground, then standing athwart history and yelling "Stop!" is our patriotic duty.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:12 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Legislatively, you should address that question to the majority party. If the GOP wants to do anything other than return the country to the 18th century, then I, for one, wouldn't object to bipartisan legislation. But if, as it appears now, the Republican agenda is to raze the country and salt the ground, then standing athwart history and yelling "Stop!" is our patriotic duty.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:12 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
They're going to be angry at whatever internal enemy he blames that on, and that's when they'll start murder squads.
How would this rhetoric go? "Sorry, but $GROUP_X left me no choice but to sign Ryan's healthcare bill and end your medicare... go get 'em"?
The Nazis got people angry about things you couldn't pin on the Nazis: banks exacerbating the German depression by calling in loans, the WWI surrender, the Treaty of Versailles, France invading the Ruhr to extract resources in lieu of unpaid reparations. What's an example of leaders rousing death squads in the name of problems for which the leaders themselves have clearly documented responsibility?
posted by Coventry at 2:24 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
How would this rhetoric go? "Sorry, but $GROUP_X left me no choice but to sign Ryan's healthcare bill and end your medicare... go get 'em"?
The Nazis got people angry about things you couldn't pin on the Nazis: banks exacerbating the German depression by calling in loans, the WWI surrender, the Treaty of Versailles, France invading the Ruhr to extract resources in lieu of unpaid reparations. What's an example of leaders rousing death squads in the name of problems for which the leaders themselves have clearly documented responsibility?
posted by Coventry at 2:24 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
>An IRS employee leaked Nixon's tax returns. That seems like a predictable outcome, if Trump tries to shut down the audit.
So then what? I'm seriously asking. He's already acknowledged that he pays no taxes, to mass approval. Everybody who matters knows that the very idea of taxation is a grievous and unjustifiable injury perpetrated upon The Marlboro Men by The Libtards. So an audit finds that Donald Trump cheated on his taxes. His supporters approve. We bitch about it in here. What else happens?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:26 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
So then what? I'm seriously asking. He's already acknowledged that he pays no taxes, to mass approval. Everybody who matters knows that the very idea of taxation is a grievous and unjustifiable injury perpetrated upon The Marlboro Men by The Libtards. So an audit finds that Donald Trump cheated on his taxes. His supporters approve. We bitch about it in here. What else happens?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:26 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
>How would this rhetoric go? "Sorry, but $GROUP_X left me no choice but to sign Ryan's healthcare bill and end your medicare... go get 'em"?
That is exactly how it would go. "We can't afford these programs because we ran out of money because Obamacare and Obama Everything ruined the economy." The people who support these guys already believe it and won't even have to be told.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:27 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
That is exactly how it would go. "We can't afford these programs because we ran out of money because Obamacare and Obama Everything ruined the economy." The people who support these guys already believe it and won't even have to be told.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:27 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
>It's grounds for impeachment.
Impeachment by whom? His own party, for the gigantic PR victory that that would bring them? I mean, I'd love to see it, I just need to know whether I should stop holding my breath for it before or after my face turns blue.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Impeachment by whom? His own party, for the gigantic PR victory that that would bring them? I mean, I'd love to see it, I just need to know whether I should stop holding my breath for it before or after my face turns blue.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
> I wish I had something more substantive to say than "I hate this man"
I think Benedict Cumberbatch summarizes my thoughts quite effectively.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 2:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think Benedict Cumberbatch summarizes my thoughts quite effectively.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 2:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Democrats did No Child Left Behind under George W. Bush
Yeah, no. No Child Left Behind was proposed by Bush himself, and authored by both Republican and Democratic representatives. He had a history of imposing mandatory testing in Texas prior to becoming president and the people involved in those policies rolled over nationally. I know because I worked on research studies in education while he was governor of Texas and my boss worked pretty closely with him and Laura and later got invites to the White House, etc. Bush was actually a "compassionate conservative" by modern standards, in that he believed things like public education should exist. It may have gotten bipartisan support, but it was his bandwagon.
(To be clear, NCLB is clearly a failed program, and neither myself or my boss had anything to do with that specifically. Around that time she was advocating for universal pre-K and generally we did early childhood education stuff, headstart reform, etc.)
posted by threeturtles at 2:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yeah, no. No Child Left Behind was proposed by Bush himself, and authored by both Republican and Democratic representatives. He had a history of imposing mandatory testing in Texas prior to becoming president and the people involved in those policies rolled over nationally. I know because I worked on research studies in education while he was governor of Texas and my boss worked pretty closely with him and Laura and later got invites to the White House, etc. Bush was actually a "compassionate conservative" by modern standards, in that he believed things like public education should exist. It may have gotten bipartisan support, but it was his bandwagon.
(To be clear, NCLB is clearly a failed program, and neither myself or my boss had anything to do with that specifically. Around that time she was advocating for universal pre-K and generally we did early childhood education stuff, headstart reform, etc.)
posted by threeturtles at 2:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Here's something good. Michele dressed up as Ruth Bader Ginsburg for super heroes day at her school. And she got a personal note from Justice Ginsburg days later.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
if Trump tries to shut down the audit.
The audit will go on. There will be just this side of legal pressure to make most of the problems go away and what fines are levied will be paid. Audits are private, he's not under any legal obligation to disclose them, he only said he would after the audit was done.
An IRS employee leaked Nixon's tax returns.
Maybe it'll happen again. But it didn't happen during the election and Trump will have some level of control over the NSA who have vast insight into much of the internet and he is known to be vastly more spiteful and vindictive than even Nixon. And ultimately the outcome of Nixon's leaked taxes was that he was hit with a fine.
posted by Candleman at 2:41 PM on January 7, 2017
The audit will go on. There will be just this side of legal pressure to make most of the problems go away and what fines are levied will be paid. Audits are private, he's not under any legal obligation to disclose them, he only said he would after the audit was done.
An IRS employee leaked Nixon's tax returns.
Maybe it'll happen again. But it didn't happen during the election and Trump will have some level of control over the NSA who have vast insight into much of the internet and he is known to be vastly more spiteful and vindictive than even Nixon. And ultimately the outcome of Nixon's leaked taxes was that he was hit with a fine.
posted by Candleman at 2:41 PM on January 7, 2017
Legislatively, you should address that question to the majority party.
Except we already know what the Republican agenda is because they've spent the past eight years very publicly rehearsing their agenda with votes (that were killed in the Senate / vetoed), press conferences, and repeated promises to pass legislation. Even though they were obviously in the minority, they never acted as such.
Democrats need to follow suit. Democrats need to get started on their progressive agenda now so that in two years the party is unified and ready to act the minute they're elected. We can't afford another Lieberman Surprise where some important party member threatens to fillibuster major legislation at the last minute because he's a whiny jerk. We need a party that has spent their time in the wilderness lining up votes, dotting i's and crossing t's so come election time they can make a sincere promise to voters that "We will accomplish X" and then actually accomplish X in short order.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
Except we already know what the Republican agenda is because they've spent the past eight years very publicly rehearsing their agenda with votes (that were killed in the Senate / vetoed), press conferences, and repeated promises to pass legislation. Even though they were obviously in the minority, they never acted as such.
Democrats need to follow suit. Democrats need to get started on their progressive agenda now so that in two years the party is unified and ready to act the minute they're elected. We can't afford another Lieberman Surprise where some important party member threatens to fillibuster major legislation at the last minute because he's a whiny jerk. We need a party that has spent their time in the wilderness lining up votes, dotting i's and crossing t's so come election time they can make a sincere promise to voters that "We will accomplish X" and then actually accomplish X in short order.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
I think last week showed that Trump will go up against the GOP Congress if he thinks that it'll improve his own reputation, or if he thinks that signing Bill X will be wildly unpopular and will lead to people being mean to him.
He explicitly said that it was bad timing, not a bad idea. And the other stuff that was kept in the bill is a lot worse than defanging a Congressional ethics board.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
He explicitly said that it was bad timing, not a bad idea. And the other stuff that was kept in the bill is a lot worse than defanging a Congressional ethics board.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Michele dressed up as Ruth Bader Ginsburg for super heroes day at her school. And she got a personal note from Justice Ginsburg days later.
I try to counteract the conservatives I know who are openly rooting for Justice Ginsberg's death by drinking to her health and hoping that she lives through this. She's old, yes, but she's tough and a fighter and the fewer Supreme Court seats the Donald gets his tiny hands on the better.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:50 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I try to counteract the conservatives I know who are openly rooting for Justice Ginsberg's death by drinking to her health and hoping that she lives through this. She's old, yes, but she's tough and a fighter and the fewer Supreme Court seats the Donald gets his tiny hands on the better.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:50 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Facebook suspends ‘God’ for questioning military spending: A popular religious satire page, God, has been suspended after posting a status update that suggested the US “stop making your military so damn huge and give people medicine."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
We can't afford another Lieberman Surprise where some important party member threatens to fillibuster major legislation at the last minute because he's a whiny jerk.
I don't think we will.
The Senate Republicans, on the other hand, already have Graham, McCain, Collins, and Murkowski, who have already (meaningfully) indicated that they will not vote in lockstep with their party, and are basically unassailable in their home jurisdictions.
Things don't look so great in the house, but Trump seems to have actually scared a few Republican senators back to being "moderates."
posted by schmod at 2:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't think we will.
The Senate Republicans, on the other hand, already have Graham, McCain, Collins, and Murkowski, who have already (meaningfully) indicated that they will not vote in lockstep with their party, and are basically unassailable in their home jurisdictions.
Things don't look so great in the house, but Trump seems to have actually scared a few Republican senators back to being "moderates."
posted by schmod at 2:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also, what's the over/under on Graham dropping his party affiliation altogether? I'm kind of surprised that hasn't happened already...
posted by schmod at 2:57 PM on January 7, 2017
posted by schmod at 2:57 PM on January 7, 2017
An image of President-elect Donald Trump ... will appear on a free sleeve that protects the card, officials said Saturday.Please tell me someone is collecting these to slip over the tips of a giant army of dildos to be lain like a memorial to democracy outside the WH grounds on inauguration day.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't think we will.
Manchin is already releasing joint press releases with the Trump team gushing over his EPA pick. It's far more likely he'll defect than any Republican.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Manchin is already releasing joint press releases with the Trump team gushing over his EPA pick. It's far more likely he'll defect than any Republican.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I, Donald J Trump, do take this oath, which is the best oath. I mean, people are saying, this oath I am taking, it is truly the best oath. I can't say, really, about whether it is the best, but it is huge, this moment, this moment is huge. It is truly the hugest moment, and I cannot express how huge this is."
hippybear has just outed himself as the writer of The New Yorker cartoon punchlines.
posted by peeedro at 3:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
hippybear has just outed himself as the writer of The New Yorker cartoon punchlines.
posted by peeedro at 3:00 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
We can't afford another Lieberman Surprise where some important party member threatens to fillibuster major legislation at the last minute because it hurts his ego.
Lieberman was no surprise. He lost the Democratic primary to Ned Lamont in 2006, but won the general election as an independent by getting most of the Republican vote and a small portion of Democrats. He held a grudge against the Democratic Party for failing to support him against the Democratic primary winner Lamont.
He campaigned for McCain and Palin in 2008 against Barrack Obama. So it was certainly no surprise that he was a complete jerk filibustering Obamacare in 2010. He had already made clear that he was a turncoat.
Thanks to Lieberman there is no public option in Obamacare. Lieberman also vetoed a buy-in option to Medicare for those over the age of 55.
It wasn't for lack of trying by Democrats to get a better senator. They defeated Lieberman in the 2006 primary, but he came back via a ton of Republican votes.
posted by JackFlash at 3:01 PM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Lieberman was no surprise. He lost the Democratic primary to Ned Lamont in 2006, but won the general election as an independent by getting most of the Republican vote and a small portion of Democrats. He held a grudge against the Democratic Party for failing to support him against the Democratic primary winner Lamont.
He campaigned for McCain and Palin in 2008 against Barrack Obama. So it was certainly no surprise that he was a complete jerk filibustering Obamacare in 2010. He had already made clear that he was a turncoat.
Thanks to Lieberman there is no public option in Obamacare. Lieberman also vetoed a buy-in option to Medicare for those over the age of 55.
It wasn't for lack of trying by Democrats to get a better senator. They defeated Lieberman in the 2006 primary, but he came back via a ton of Republican votes.
posted by JackFlash at 3:01 PM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
I imagine he's been practising.
Unfortunately donnie boy is not one who practices. He thinks he is perfect. Perhaps an aide will just tweet his responses for him.
posted by futz at 3:09 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately donnie boy is not one who practices. He thinks he is perfect. Perhaps an aide will just tweet his responses for him.
posted by futz at 3:09 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: How is this still happening with everything we now know?
posted by petebest at 3:11 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by petebest at 3:11 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, what's the over/under on Graham dropping his party affiliation altogether?
Unlikely, I think. Despite his occasional independence from the pack and despite his fondness for appearing independent, he's on board with most of the rest of the GOP's social and economic platform. Keep an eye on Graham, tho. His re-election may rely on a coalition of SC Dems/Repubs who are afraid of getting anyone more Trumpist. I don't expect him to ever do a Lieberman, but he very much likes seeing himself as Mr. Independent and what he does to a Trump administration if he feels even less reliance on GOP voters (SC has cross party primaries) might be interesting.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:11 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Unlikely, I think. Despite his occasional independence from the pack and despite his fondness for appearing independent, he's on board with most of the rest of the GOP's social and economic platform. Keep an eye on Graham, tho. His re-election may rely on a coalition of SC Dems/Repubs who are afraid of getting anyone more Trumpist. I don't expect him to ever do a Lieberman, but he very much likes seeing himself as Mr. Independent and what he does to a Trump administration if he feels even less reliance on GOP voters (SC has cross party primaries) might be interesting.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:11 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
It wasn't for lack of trying by Democrats to get a better senator. They defeated Lieberman in the 2006 primary, but he came back via a ton of Republican votes.
Democrats sure, but the Democratic Party still let him keep his seniority and committee chairs as if nothing had happened.
Manchin is already releasing joint press releases with the Trump team gushing over his EPA pick. It's far more likely he'll defect than any Republican.
Ugh. Don't get me started on Manchin. I have a family member who's on a fairly standard medication that suddenly jumped in price ala the Epipen. I will not support a Democratic Party that accommodates jerks like him. I honestly hope he does defect. It would make 2018 far easier.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Democrats sure, but the Democratic Party still let him keep his seniority and committee chairs as if nothing had happened.
Manchin is already releasing joint press releases with the Trump team gushing over his EPA pick. It's far more likely he'll defect than any Republican.
Ugh. Don't get me started on Manchin. I have a family member who's on a fairly standard medication that suddenly jumped in price ala the Epipen. I will not support a Democratic Party that accommodates jerks like him. I honestly hope he does defect. It would make 2018 far easier.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
So an audit finds that Donald Trump cheated on his taxes... What else happens?
There's some earlier context to the conversation you may not have caught up on.
posted by Coventry at 3:21 PM on January 7, 2017
There's some earlier context to the conversation you may not have caught up on.
posted by Coventry at 3:21 PM on January 7, 2017
Democrats sure, but the Democratic Party still let him keep his seniority and committee chairs as if nothing had happened.
That was a tough call but Lieberman had the Democrats over a barrel as the 60th vote. Sure they could have punished him by stripping him of his positions, but then you wouldn't have had any Obamacare at all. What would you have done differently?
posted by JackFlash at 3:23 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
That was a tough call but Lieberman had the Democrats over a barrel as the 60th vote. Sure they could have punished him by stripping him of his positions, but then you wouldn't have had any Obamacare at all. What would you have done differently?
posted by JackFlash at 3:23 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you want to blame anyone for Lieberman, blame the 10% of Democratic voters in Connecticut who crossed over to vote with the Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 3:26 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 3:26 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I will not support a Democratic Party that accommodates jerks like him. I honestly hope he does defect. It would make 2018 far easier.
This is why Republicans control so much of the country!
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is why Republicans control so much of the country!
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is why Republicans control so much of the country!
Because Democrats keep propping up compromised incumbents like Manchin who have personally alienated a large fraction of voters?
He's already at risk in 2018. What harm would there be in encouraging someone to primary him?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because Democrats keep propping up compromised incumbents like Manchin who have personally alienated a large fraction of voters?
He's already at risk in 2018. What harm would there be in encouraging someone to primary him?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Winning the primary isn't the problem, it's winning the general. What does the country gain by another Republican Senator from West Virginia?
posted by Justinian at 3:51 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:51 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
She's old, yes, but she's tough and a fighter
RBG is tough as nails, but the weight on her shoulders has got to be oppressive. Three months ago, she had every reason to believe it would be okay for her to die -- and now she knows what the consequences would be if she did.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
RBG is tough as nails, but the weight on her shoulders has got to be oppressive. Three months ago, she had every reason to believe it would be okay for her to die -- and now she knows what the consequences would be if she did.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Regarding Trump's phone, I read this article about his head of security, Keith Schiller, a while back.
The associates say Schiller provides more than just security. Trump has been known to ask Schiller’s opinion on all manner of subjects. When people want to reach Trump, they often call Schiller’s cellphone and he decides who gets through to the boss.
Then there was this article, about how Australia's prime minister could only reach Donald Trump by asking Greg Norman for his phone number.
And a third, from June of 2016, that says Donald Trump doesn't use or carry a cell phone.
Trump did tell CNN's Anderson Cooper that he "writes" his own tweets.
"During the day, I'm in the office, I just shout it out to one of the young ladies who are tremendous," he told Cooper. "I have tremendous office staff. And Meredith and some of the people that work for me. And I'll just shout it out, and they'll do it. But during the evenings, after 7 o'clock or so, I will always do it by myself."
I'm appreciating the SNL skits even more now, because they seem so accurate, in light of the above.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 3:58 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
The associates say Schiller provides more than just security. Trump has been known to ask Schiller’s opinion on all manner of subjects. When people want to reach Trump, they often call Schiller’s cellphone and he decides who gets through to the boss.
Then there was this article, about how Australia's prime minister could only reach Donald Trump by asking Greg Norman for his phone number.
And a third, from June of 2016, that says Donald Trump doesn't use or carry a cell phone.
Trump did tell CNN's Anderson Cooper that he "writes" his own tweets.
"During the day, I'm in the office, I just shout it out to one of the young ladies who are tremendous," he told Cooper. "I have tremendous office staff. And Meredith and some of the people that work for me. And I'll just shout it out, and they'll do it. But during the evenings, after 7 o'clock or so, I will always do it by myself."
I'm appreciating the SNL skits even more now, because they seem so accurate, in light of the above.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 3:58 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Planned Parenthood Volunteers Blocked From Delivering 87,000 Petitions to Paul Ryan
On Friday afternoon, a crowd of Planned Parenthood Action Fund supporters lined the halls of the Longworth House Office Building in Washington, D.C. to hand-deliver over 87,000 #StandWithPP petitions to Speaker of the House Paul Ryan’s office [snip snip] Ryan reportedly sent six security guards to block the delivery of the petitions by the pink-T-shirt-clad Planned Parenthood volunteers, who waited in the halls to make their delivery of the petitions, which ask Ryan to protect funding for Planned Parenthood through Medicaid and Title X. The security guards ultimately blocked the volunteers from being able to deliver their petitions, a spokesperson for Planned Parenthood told Teen Vogue. (And now, of course, there's a #PaulRyanSoScared hashtag going around on Twitter.)
posted by futz at 4:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
On Friday afternoon, a crowd of Planned Parenthood Action Fund supporters lined the halls of the Longworth House Office Building in Washington, D.C. to hand-deliver over 87,000 #StandWithPP petitions to Speaker of the House Paul Ryan’s office [snip snip] Ryan reportedly sent six security guards to block the delivery of the petitions by the pink-T-shirt-clad Planned Parenthood volunteers, who waited in the halls to make their delivery of the petitions, which ask Ryan to protect funding for Planned Parenthood through Medicaid and Title X. The security guards ultimately blocked the volunteers from being able to deliver their petitions, a spokesperson for Planned Parenthood told Teen Vogue. (And now, of course, there's a #PaulRyanSoScared hashtag going around on Twitter.)
posted by futz at 4:06 PM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Here's my vagina dentata wheelchair hubcap before application of shiny colorful shit. I'm no artist so I'm going for a very simple thing. LOOK AT HOW PERFECTLY THE CARDBOARD IS SIZED for my wheels.
As I never do this kinda thing, I called up the one crafty person I know, my SO's ex-wife, a darling person. As I was describing what a vagina dentata was, 'cause she was all *wut* and asking for different shades of pink and red paints I got really flustered, because normally I don't talk about vagina colors and most definitely not with an SO's ex. I forgot her fiancee's name, which was really embarrassing because I was counting on him to bring me the vagina paint from her house and yeah nothing like trying to act normal in that situation.
posted by angrycat at 4:15 PM on January 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
As I never do this kinda thing, I called up the one crafty person I know, my SO's ex-wife, a darling person. As I was describing what a vagina dentata was, 'cause she was all *wut* and asking for different shades of pink and red paints I got really flustered, because normally I don't talk about vagina colors and most definitely not with an SO's ex. I forgot her fiancee's name, which was really embarrassing because I was counting on him to bring me the vagina paint from her house and yeah nothing like trying to act normal in that situation.
posted by angrycat at 4:15 PM on January 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
I forgot to add, Trump just appointed Keith Schiller as assistant and director of Oval Office Operations.
Schiller will also bring some legal baggage with him to the White House — Schiller and four of his subordinates in the Trump security operation are the subjects of an ongoing lawsuit winding its way through New York State courts accusing them of assaulting a handful of protesters during a raucous protest outside the campaign’s Manhattan headquarters in September 2015.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Schiller will also bring some legal baggage with him to the White House — Schiller and four of his subordinates in the Trump security operation are the subjects of an ongoing lawsuit winding its way through New York State courts accusing them of assaulting a handful of protesters during a raucous protest outside the campaign’s Manhattan headquarters in September 2015.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
ok, so there have been a lot of unexpected situations as a result of *all this bullshit* but awkwardness over forgetting one's partner's ex's fiancee's name while also relying on them to procure properly vagina-colored paints for one's wheelchair accessories is... probably taking the cake so far! Congrats angrycat!
Bad news: it's only day 7 of the new year, you might not be able to hold that cake for long. Eat it while you got it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:31 PM on January 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
Bad news: it's only day 7 of the new year, you might not be able to hold that cake for long. Eat it while you got it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:31 PM on January 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
What does the country gain by another Republican Senator from West Virginia?
Nothing. I'm not going to cut off my nose off to spite my face.
It's just....prescription drug costs are a very important/scary issue for me, and although I understand that keeping Joe Manchin in office is a net benefit, I don't want to give him a pass on this particular issue because I'm deeply suspicious that he will compromise or stop any future attempt to fix it as compensation for keeping the seat blue.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nothing. I'm not going to cut off my nose off to spite my face.
It's just....prescription drug costs are a very important/scary issue for me, and although I understand that keeping Joe Manchin in office is a net benefit, I don't want to give him a pass on this particular issue because I'm deeply suspicious that he will compromise or stop any future attempt to fix it as compensation for keeping the seat blue.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jay Rosen's PressThink on "The Monica Crowley Situation" aka "Trump's National Security Plagiarist" or "What the (Bleep) Happened to “What The (Bleep) Just Happened”?" (Rosen has gone from 'interesting viewpoint' to 'indispensable resource' in the last few weeks)
I think "having legal problems" is becoming not a problem for Trump appointees, but rather a job requirement, as in "of course, I can make your legal issues go away... as long as you're working for me"
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think "having legal problems" is becoming not a problem for Trump appointees, but rather a job requirement, as in "of course, I can make your legal issues go away... as long as you're working for me"
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Clinton released decades of tax returns that indicated no improprieties, and yet people still claimed she was more corrupt than Trump. I don't think tax returns have anything to do with perceptions of how corrupt or not corrupt someone is.
As for Trump, I'm one-hundred-percent certain he'll do something qualifying him for impeachment in four years (a better bet is how long it will be before that happens), but I'm not at all certain the Republicans would go through with it.
I agree with this. Throughout the whole campaign Trump said and did things that horrified the Republican leadership and ran in complete odds to their goals. As long as he drew crowds they supported him anyway.
Not to mention Trump supports literally whomever he's last talked to--remember how he was for keeping Obamacare after he spoke with Obama? And now is back to being against it? They just need to ensure the Republican in the room sufficiently flatters him while they wait for his signature. If the people don't like it, who cares? Trump will rail against the bill, lie about signing it, call it completely illegal, claim he didn't know about it, and then it will all slip from the public's memory as soon as the media moves onto the next scandal. We lack the media environment and appreciation for factual evidence that would ensure he'd be held accountable for anything he actually does or says.
posted by Anonymous at 4:36 PM on January 7, 2017
As for Trump, I'm one-hundred-percent certain he'll do something qualifying him for impeachment in four years (a better bet is how long it will be before that happens), but I'm not at all certain the Republicans would go through with it.
I agree with this. Throughout the whole campaign Trump said and did things that horrified the Republican leadership and ran in complete odds to their goals. As long as he drew crowds they supported him anyway.
Not to mention Trump supports literally whomever he's last talked to--remember how he was for keeping Obamacare after he spoke with Obama? And now is back to being against it? They just need to ensure the Republican in the room sufficiently flatters him while they wait for his signature. If the people don't like it, who cares? Trump will rail against the bill, lie about signing it, call it completely illegal, claim he didn't know about it, and then it will all slip from the public's memory as soon as the media moves onto the next scandal. We lack the media environment and appreciation for factual evidence that would ensure he'd be held accountable for anything he actually does or says.
posted by Anonymous at 4:36 PM on January 7, 2017
Here's my vagina dentata wheelchair hubcap before application of shiny colorful shit.
For some unknown reason I thought you were making a vagina dentata breastplate.
posted by futz at 4:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
For some unknown reason I thought you were making a vagina dentata breastplate.
posted by futz at 4:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because Democrats keep propping up compromised incumbents like Manchin who have personally alienated a large fraction of voters? He's already at risk in 2018. What harm would there be in encouraging someone to primary him?
Did you not read the history about Lieberman above? If you try to take him down, you better be damned sure you succeed. Otherwise you have one pissed off senator to screw the Democrats. And Connecticut was a blue state. What do you think your changes are in West Virginia?
posted by JackFlash at 4:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did you not read the history about Lieberman above? If you try to take him down, you better be damned sure you succeed. Otherwise you have one pissed off senator to screw the Democrats. And Connecticut was a blue state. What do you think your changes are in West Virginia?
posted by JackFlash at 4:41 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
If DJT continues to hold rallies here is what I would like to see: passive resistance. Have as many anti-Trumpers as possible show up and blend in (that means NO Black Lives Matter T-shirts.) Then all through the rally remain completely silent. No yelling, no cheering, no laughing, no booing. Just impassive. With enough people this could really deflate Trump and his supporters.
I think the same thing could work at the inauguration but it is a little late to co-ordinate that. But imagine if the parade route was filled with completely passive people who were emotionless, just watchful eyes recording everything. They could not be dismissed as "libtards raining on DJT's parade" because there would be no yelling and anger. Really overall I would like to see less ranting and raving among protesters but that's just me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
I think the same thing could work at the inauguration but it is a little late to co-ordinate that. But imagine if the parade route was filled with completely passive people who were emotionless, just watchful eyes recording everything. They could not be dismissed as "libtards raining on DJT's parade" because there would be no yelling and anger. Really overall I would like to see less ranting and raving among protesters but that's just me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
"Trump in" is an anagram for "Mr. Putin."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:45 PM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:45 PM on January 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
We lack the media environment and appreciation for factual evidence that would ensure he'd be held accountable for anything he actually does or says.
Quoted for ABSOLUTE TRUTH (as if being true counts anymore).
A problem that began with the Reagan Administration, and has been growing slowly until now we have the conditions that make a President Trump not just possible but inevitable. I'm just thankful it's not a more competent asshole at the end of this historical intestine.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Quoted for ABSOLUTE TRUTH (as if being true counts anymore).
A problem that began with the Reagan Administration, and has been growing slowly until now we have the conditions that make a President Trump not just possible but inevitable. I'm just thankful it's not a more competent asshole at the end of this historical intestine.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think "in Trump" might be more accurate.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now I'm starting to wonder what Kellyann Conway would do if she was interviewed by someone who neither agreed nor disagreed with anything she said. Just said "Huh." every once in awhile with raised eyebrows. It might not work, she might be able to just run off at the mouth with all of her confabulations but still I think it would be interesting to try. Very few people have interviewed her to great effect-- most people who have fought her just allow her to make points for her team and allowed her to spin the news the way she wants. The liberals hear what they want to hear and the Trumpkins hear what they want to hear. What I would like to see is Conway get flustered and say things she ought not to say.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh my God
I mean VFQ's no prize either, but he's gotta be right some of the time, and this is one of those times.
posted by tel3path at 4:53 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean VFQ's no prize either, but he's gotta be right some of the time, and this is one of those times.
posted by tel3path at 4:53 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Gentle request that people not use the word 'libtard' here. It's about two thirds of an ableist slur. Yeah, I know they say it, and I don't need to be reminded. And yeah, safe spaces, P.C., etc., I am also aware of those arguments.)
posted by box at 4:59 PM on January 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by box at 4:59 PM on January 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
If you try to take him down, you better be damned sure you succeed.
This.
If this election has proven anything, it's that the only thing anyone who considers themselves to be liberal should care about is flipping seats. The "$PERSON is corrupt and terrible!" rhetoric all but guarantees that, if they aren't successfully primaried, you'll have discouraged the Democrats enough to lose the seat.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:17 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
This.
If this election has proven anything, it's that the only thing anyone who considers themselves to be liberal should care about is flipping seats. The "$PERSON is corrupt and terrible!" rhetoric all but guarantees that, if they aren't successfully primaried, you'll have discouraged the Democrats enough to lose the seat.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:17 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
'Mad Dog' Mattis Isn't Going to Yield. Will Trump? The president-elect might be regretting his choice for Secretary of Defense.
As I expected, Mattis is the only thing I have any faith in in new appointees.
As I expected, Mattis is the only thing I have any faith in in new appointees.
"Mattis has rejected all of the names the Trump team has offered to be the top intelligence official in the department, another transition source said. Mattis is also unlikely to accept Trump's top Pentagon transition landing team official, Mira Ricardel, as a top official. She was rumored to be in line to be undersecretary of defense for policy, a hugely influential job."posted by corb at 5:29 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
US press accused of ignoring the most obvious problem with Donald Trump - his approval rating
It may seem there is a never-ending barrage of negative stories about Donald Trump, but a leading commentator has accused the US press of ignoring the most glaringly obvious problem with the President-elect – his abysmal approval ratings.
Eric Boehlert, who wrote “Lapdogs: How the Press Rolled over for Bush”, claims the media is doing the same for Mr Trump as he says they did with George W Bush and giving him an easy ride by focusing on personality politics – particularly his tweets.
Mr Boehlert, a senior fellow at US research centre, Media Matters, claims: “There’s a glaring Trump transition story hiding in plain sight: He’s historically unpopular. The press ought to start telling that tale on a daily basis.”
posted by futz at 5:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [48 favorites]
It may seem there is a never-ending barrage of negative stories about Donald Trump, but a leading commentator has accused the US press of ignoring the most glaringly obvious problem with the President-elect – his abysmal approval ratings.
Eric Boehlert, who wrote “Lapdogs: How the Press Rolled over for Bush”, claims the media is doing the same for Mr Trump as he says they did with George W Bush and giving him an easy ride by focusing on personality politics – particularly his tweets.
Mr Boehlert, a senior fellow at US research centre, Media Matters, claims: “There’s a glaring Trump transition story hiding in plain sight: He’s historically unpopular. The press ought to start telling that tale on a daily basis.”
posted by futz at 5:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [48 favorites]
Also, has anyone yet linked to this nightmarish 2017 scenario by MeFi's cstross?
The only comfort I can give you is that it totally goes off the rails by October.
OTOH, Stross didn't cover the celebrity death count, which will only make 2017 worse.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
The only comfort I can give you is that it totally goes off the rails by October.
OTOH, Stross didn't cover the celebrity death count, which will only make 2017 worse.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
As I expected, Mattis is the only thing I have any faith in in new appointees.
As I expected, Mattis is the thing I fear most about the new appointees. Contrary to law and precedent, we have military instead of civilian control of the Defense Department, and a Defense Secretary putting in place military officials that are personally loyal to him.
posted by JackFlash at 5:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
As I expected, Mattis is the thing I fear most about the new appointees. Contrary to law and precedent, we have military instead of civilian control of the Defense Department, and a Defense Secretary putting in place military officials that are personally loyal to him.
posted by JackFlash at 5:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't think we have any evidence, nor do I think its true, that Mattis is putting in military officials that are personally loyal to him. Rather, I suspect from the appointments the transition team has already tried to make, that they're incredibly unqualified, and he's rejecting them on those grounds.
posted by corb at 5:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
The fact that we're supposed to somehow trust a guy who wants to glass Iran so much other Pentagon officials are uncomfortable, and doesn't seem to know the difference between Shi'a and Sunni (or the centuries of animosity between them) is scary enough, thank you very much.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 5:49 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is the only named person I read of Mattis rejecting:
"Mira Ricardel spent the first two years of the George W. Bush administration as the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Eurasia before spending two more years as acting assistant secretary of defense for international security policy. She then left for industry, primarily for a nine-year stint at Boeing, including seven years as vice president of business development for strategic missile and defense systems and two as vice president for international business development related to network and space systems; her Linkedin profile says she left Boeing in 2015 for consulting firm Federal Budget IQ, although the Trump team says she was most recently self employed."
Here's some astroturfing she got into The Hill.
Anybody got a list of who he's pushing.
posted by ridgerunner at 5:55 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Mira Ricardel spent the first two years of the George W. Bush administration as the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Eurasia before spending two more years as acting assistant secretary of defense for international security policy. She then left for industry, primarily for a nine-year stint at Boeing, including seven years as vice president of business development for strategic missile and defense systems and two as vice president for international business development related to network and space systems; her Linkedin profile says she left Boeing in 2015 for consulting firm Federal Budget IQ, although the Trump team says she was most recently self employed."
Here's some astroturfing she got into The Hill.
Anybody got a list of who he's pushing.
posted by ridgerunner at 5:55 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Christ, the transition team's statement in the update to the WaPo story on Trump/Mattis tensions:
posted by jason_steakums at 6:04 PM on January 7, 2017 [63 favorites]
“We are ahead of schedule with assembling the most qualified cabinet and administration in history. Any implication contrary to that is completely false and from sources who do not have any knowledge of our transition efforts.”It reads just like an official statement from the DPRK.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:04 PM on January 7, 2017 [63 favorites]
Remember, citizens: any statement other than our (current, possibly changing on a moment by moment basis) official statement on any matter is merely filthy lies by the enemies of the republic!
posted by tocts at 6:07 PM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by tocts at 6:07 PM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh wow, that updated article.
posted by corb at 6:09 PM on January 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
"Mattis is also pushing for the Trump transition team to allow "NeverTrump" Republicans to serve in the Pentagon, but so far the Trump team is refusing."So, the spoils process is confirmed.
posted by corb at 6:09 PM on January 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
...also I just realized how, if you look at Trump as North Korea, the Republicans map eerily well to China, the press to the US, and all the rest of us seem to be trying to go about our lives in Seoul.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:10 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:10 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Bill Perry Is Terrified. Why Aren’t You? How an 89-year-old cold warrior became America’s nuclear conscience.
The Cuban Missile Crisis recounting is one of the dramatic peaks in “My Journey on the Nuclear Brink,” the memoir Perry published last fall. It is a book laced with other close calls—like November 9, 1979, when Perry was awakened in the middle of the night by a watch officer at the North American Aerospace and Defense Command (NORAD) reporting that his computers showed 200 Soviet missiles in flight toward the United States. For a frozen moment, Perry thought: This is it—This is how it ends.
The watch officer soon set him at ease. It was a computer error, and he was calling to see whether Perry, the technology expert, had any explanation. It took a couple days to discover the low-tech answer: Someone had carelessly left a crisis-simulation training tape in the computer. All was well. But what if this blunder had happened in the middle of a real crisis, with leaders in Washington and Moscow already on high alert? The inescapable conclusion was the same as it was in 1962: The world skirting nuclear Armageddon as much by good luck as by skilled crisis management.
Published yesterday, Perry talks about current events, refers to himself as "the prophet of doom", and tries to connect with redditors who sometimes confuse him with William “The Refrigerator” Perry. Fantastic read.
posted by futz at 6:14 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Cuban Missile Crisis recounting is one of the dramatic peaks in “My Journey on the Nuclear Brink,” the memoir Perry published last fall. It is a book laced with other close calls—like November 9, 1979, when Perry was awakened in the middle of the night by a watch officer at the North American Aerospace and Defense Command (NORAD) reporting that his computers showed 200 Soviet missiles in flight toward the United States. For a frozen moment, Perry thought: This is it—This is how it ends.
The watch officer soon set him at ease. It was a computer error, and he was calling to see whether Perry, the technology expert, had any explanation. It took a couple days to discover the low-tech answer: Someone had carelessly left a crisis-simulation training tape in the computer. All was well. But what if this blunder had happened in the middle of a real crisis, with leaders in Washington and Moscow already on high alert? The inescapable conclusion was the same as it was in 1962: The world skirting nuclear Armageddon as much by good luck as by skilled crisis management.
Published yesterday, Perry talks about current events, refers to himself as "the prophet of doom", and tries to connect with redditors who sometimes confuse him with William “The Refrigerator” Perry. Fantastic read.
posted by futz at 6:14 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm not sure about your analogy. Trump doesn't have a Seoul.
posted by uosuaq at 6:14 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:14 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Did you not read the history about Lieberman above? If you try to take him down, you better be damned sure you succeed. Otherwise you have one pissed off senator to screw the Democrats.
Manchin was already threatening to switch parties to save his skin, when it looked like Clinton would win and win the Senate. You think you're going to get a more progressive candidate in West Virginia? Trump won by 45. Old West Virginia that voted for Bill Clinton is dead, it's effectively Alabama or Mississippi. Manchin is the best on tap. Primarying him makes no sense when he could still offer a Dem vote on things like nominations.
If this election has proven anything, it's that the only thing anyone who considers themselves to be liberal should care about is flipping seats. The "$PERSON is corrupt and terrible!" rhetoric all but guarantees that, if they aren't successfully primaried, you'll have discouraged the Democrats enough to lose the seat.
If only people cared about results, instead of performative outrage contest on Facebook. From all evidence, the later is the driving force.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Manchin was already threatening to switch parties to save his skin, when it looked like Clinton would win and win the Senate. You think you're going to get a more progressive candidate in West Virginia? Trump won by 45. Old West Virginia that voted for Bill Clinton is dead, it's effectively Alabama or Mississippi. Manchin is the best on tap. Primarying him makes no sense when he could still offer a Dem vote on things like nominations.
If this election has proven anything, it's that the only thing anyone who considers themselves to be liberal should care about is flipping seats. The "$PERSON is corrupt and terrible!" rhetoric all but guarantees that, if they aren't successfully primaried, you'll have discouraged the Democrats enough to lose the seat.
If only people cared about results, instead of performative outrage contest on Facebook. From all evidence, the later is the driving force.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
You know those nightmares where something frightening is happening and you try to scream but because you're asleep you can't and so in the dream you're straining and shouting as loud as you can but nothing comes out except the tiniest, faintest squeaking and no one around you hears and the horror keeps coming closer?
That's how I feel whenever I read these threads or the news in general.
posted by Scattercat at 6:20 PM on January 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
That's how I feel whenever I read these threads or the news in general.
posted by Scattercat at 6:20 PM on January 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
The problem I always had with internecine fighting among leftists/liberals/Democrats is that we're so busy fighting ourselves that we all-too-often forget about fighting the enemy (or even that the enemy's dangerous) until they have us surrounded.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is all my fault for rooting for the Russians on The Americans.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
“We are ahead of schedule with assembling the most qualified cabinet and administration in history. Any implication contrary to that is completely false and from sources who do not have any knowledge of our transition efforts.”
So the Trumpinistas have gone full "This Is Fine Dog" (still pre-inauguration, so I'd say panel 2 or 3)
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
So the Trumpinistas have gone full "This Is Fine Dog" (still pre-inauguration, so I'd say panel 2 or 3)
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is all my fault for rooting for the Russians on The Americans.
The other option on that show is the FBI. So.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
The other option on that show is the FBI. So.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I want to laugh at their incompetence, but then I remember how horrible these people are, all the blind support they have, and that they'll run the show for the foreseeable future.
And then I just feel sick.
To use a metaphor, Republicans are kind of like the vampires in old folk stories who can't hurt you unless you let them into your house, so they try and trick you. America just let the vampires into our house. And we don't have any garlic.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:45 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
And then I just feel sick.
To use a metaphor, Republicans are kind of like the vampires in old folk stories who can't hurt you unless you let them into your house, so they try and trick you. America just let the vampires into our house. And we don't have any garlic.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:45 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
T.D. Strange Manchin is the best on tap. Primarying him makes no sense when he could still offer a Dem vote on things like nominations.
Except he won't help us on nominations, he's already signaling that with his glowing approval of Trump's picks. He'll be one of the (I hope) tiny handful who will sell out the party to give the coveted stamp of "bipartisanship" to Trump and his choices.
He won't vote to sustain any filibuster, we already know that.
Really, he's effectively a Republican.
If, if, he displays a willingness to actually be useful I could see possibly sparing him. But the Tea Party taught us a valuable lesson, if only we've got the courage to learn it: losing seats is sometimes preferable to harboring traitors.
It's long, **LONG**, past time we made up enemy lists and started gearing up to primary any Democrat who dares to make one single vote, one single public statement, that helps Trump. This is line in the sand time: you're either with Trump or you're with us. No middle ground, no waffling, and no mercy for defectors.
His every nominee must be stopped, his every bill filibustered, his every proposal shuffled to death in endless committee hearings. It's time to revoke unanimous consent and bog down the Senate in a morass of endless procedural votes. Shut the whole damn thing down to keep them from doing more harm. I don't want Trump to be able to take a shit without being filibustered.
And that means a spine infusion for DINO's. One easy way forward on that is the threat of a primary, and we need to do that early and often.
I say, at best, slime like Manchin are on probation. They set one single toe out of line and we need to end their political careers no matter what the cost.
posted by sotonohito at 6:47 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Except he won't help us on nominations, he's already signaling that with his glowing approval of Trump's picks. He'll be one of the (I hope) tiny handful who will sell out the party to give the coveted stamp of "bipartisanship" to Trump and his choices.
He won't vote to sustain any filibuster, we already know that.
Really, he's effectively a Republican.
If, if, he displays a willingness to actually be useful I could see possibly sparing him. But the Tea Party taught us a valuable lesson, if only we've got the courage to learn it: losing seats is sometimes preferable to harboring traitors.
It's long, **LONG**, past time we made up enemy lists and started gearing up to primary any Democrat who dares to make one single vote, one single public statement, that helps Trump. This is line in the sand time: you're either with Trump or you're with us. No middle ground, no waffling, and no mercy for defectors.
His every nominee must be stopped, his every bill filibustered, his every proposal shuffled to death in endless committee hearings. It's time to revoke unanimous consent and bog down the Senate in a morass of endless procedural votes. Shut the whole damn thing down to keep them from doing more harm. I don't want Trump to be able to take a shit without being filibustered.
And that means a spine infusion for DINO's. One easy way forward on that is the threat of a primary, and we need to do that early and often.
I say, at best, slime like Manchin are on probation. They set one single toe out of line and we need to end their political careers no matter what the cost.
posted by sotonohito at 6:47 PM on January 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Because that worked so well this time.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:53 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:53 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
“We are ahead of schedule with assembling the most qualified cabinet and administration in history. Any implication contrary to that is completely false and from sources who do not have any knowledge of our transition efforts.”
as always, water remains dry and grass remains blue.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
as always, water remains dry and grass remains blue.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Apropos of absolutely nothing, this has been amusing me as of late.
NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO CRITICIZE THE GALAXY NOTE 7
(Note - I realize the title makes it appear I've pasted this in the wrong thread, please trust me when I say it is indeed related to the outcome of the election. And forgive me if it has already been posted and I just didn't see it!)
posted by hilaryjade at 6:58 PM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO CRITICIZE THE GALAXY NOTE 7
(Note - I realize the title makes it appear I've pasted this in the wrong thread, please trust me when I say it is indeed related to the outcome of the election. And forgive me if it has already been posted and I just didn't see it!)
posted by hilaryjade at 6:58 PM on January 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
I can't help but think we're normalizing Trump by reacting in traditionally political ways to his impending cabinet of horrors. Short of a military coup, I'm not sure there's anything that can happen that will stop (and this is no hyperbole) their evil plans. We're used to a lot of comforts in our lives that we're very likely going to lose forever (like health care and the concept of retirement and maybe non-irradiated air) and the best we can do is hope cowardly men who stands to benefit in the short term from a global nightmare will hold the fucking door for us.
Some of you have been critical of Obama trying to maintain a smooth transition of power but we're kind of doing the same thing here by talking about 2018 and signing petitions and critiquing less than stellar allies. I don't think any of that is going to work. I don't know that anything we can do inside the system can work anymore and remaining in the system is what the fascists are counting on.
As much as it terrifies me too write this, the best thing our side can do is shut the system down. Don't vote for anything ever. Do all the things the Republicans did under Obama and more and take it further. The only non-violent tool they've left is total unyielding resistance.
This sucks but the alternative is an ever accelerating loss of everything that allows us to afford food and not be murdered.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:05 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Some of you have been critical of Obama trying to maintain a smooth transition of power but we're kind of doing the same thing here by talking about 2018 and signing petitions and critiquing less than stellar allies. I don't think any of that is going to work. I don't know that anything we can do inside the system can work anymore and remaining in the system is what the fascists are counting on.
As much as it terrifies me too write this, the best thing our side can do is shut the system down. Don't vote for anything ever. Do all the things the Republicans did under Obama and more and take it further. The only non-violent tool they've left is total unyielding resistance.
This sucks but the alternative is an ever accelerating loss of everything that allows us to afford food and not be murdered.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:05 PM on January 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
I say, at best, slime like Manchin are on probation. They set one single toe out of line and we need to end their political careers no matter what the cost.
This would take far more message discipline than Democrats have ever had. A coalition party cannot act this way, especially when the "cost" you're throwing to the wind is quite literally the lives and freedom of many of the people you would need to commit to the sacrifice vote. "Primary Joe Manchin and lose your health insurance anyway, but you'll make me feel better about your suffering" isn't the quite winning message you think.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
This would take far more message discipline than Democrats have ever had. A coalition party cannot act this way, especially when the "cost" you're throwing to the wind is quite literally the lives and freedom of many of the people you would need to commit to the sacrifice vote. "Primary Joe Manchin and lose your health insurance anyway, but you'll make me feel better about your suffering" isn't the quite winning message you think.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on January 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yes We Can: People Share Their Most Memorable Moments from the Obama Presidency
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:13 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:13 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm an optimist, while my husband has been kind of the opposite. At every stage I've said "Well surely THIS won't happen because X", and I've been wrong. You'd think I'd learn, but I still hang on to some hope that the Republican party will not stand by and let Trump get away with too much shit, surely there are still good people with consciences? What are the chances that the party can reign him in? Or drop him and just vote against him? Can it happen? Surely they aren't really going along with him?
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:14 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:14 PM on January 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Republican party is as much a problem as Trump. I suspect we'll be in "worst of both worlds" territory.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:16 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:16 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump just gave them all the power. No.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:21 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:21 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I live in Maine, and have experienced our Tea Party Governor doing what he wants, and they did try to impeach him, a year ago, but there was a toady GOP who kept interrupting the Dems speeches at every turn, and the guy who was presiding let him do it, and in the end, it was not happening, then they had to haul a bunch of citizens who were in the gallery shouting, "do your job!" out of the state house. It was ugly, but here we are, still saddled with this blowhard who has just been on the news threatening that more jobs will be lost due to (?) and he knows who the company's are and he signed the law for marijuana but under duress, apparently, because his daughter got hired by Trump and he has said he'll talk to him about it. I can only imagine that he is jealous that Trump gets all the press and he doesn't, so he has to think up ways to get himself in the limelight, as Chris Christie was his bestie, but frankly, we don't think much of him here, so good luck with that, Paulie.
What I mean to say is, we have had a microcosm here in Maine, which has been tempered by our legislature, and they did try to get rid of him, to ill effect, so be careful what you wish for, because I don't trust them to impeach Trump at all. We've had to endure this sort of thing for years, but not on such a grand scale as is presented to the rest of you. All I can say is, Good Luck and Good Night.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:23 PM on January 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
What I mean to say is, we have had a microcosm here in Maine, which has been tempered by our legislature, and they did try to get rid of him, to ill effect, so be careful what you wish for, because I don't trust them to impeach Trump at all. We've had to endure this sort of thing for years, but not on such a grand scale as is presented to the rest of you. All I can say is, Good Luck and Good Night.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:23 PM on January 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
So what's the best case scenario at this point? I mean the worst case scenarios are obvious but I'm not sure what I should be wishing for at this point, it all seems kind of shitty?
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:23 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:23 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
My best case scenario is no nuclear holocaust. But I'm an optimist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:24 PM on January 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:24 PM on January 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
But the Tea Party taught us a valuable lesson, if only we've got the courage to learn it: losing seats is sometimes preferable to harboring traitors.
The Democrats gained a majority in the House of Representatives in 2006 for the first time in 16 years. It included a bunch of conservative Democrat blue dogs. Nancy Pelosi was able to wrangle enough of those blue dog "traitors" to pass Obamacare. But in the next election every one of those blue dog seats were turned over to Republicans. Republicans have held the majority ever since and controlled the agenda with speakers Boehner and Ryan.
Obamacare is about to be repealed. How's that "losing seats" strategy working out for you?
(By the way, never forget. Pelosi is the real hero of Obamacare. She kept fighting when Rahm Emanuel and Obama had given up.)
posted by JackFlash at 7:24 PM on January 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
The Democrats gained a majority in the House of Representatives in 2006 for the first time in 16 years. It included a bunch of conservative Democrat blue dogs. Nancy Pelosi was able to wrangle enough of those blue dog "traitors" to pass Obamacare. But in the next election every one of those blue dog seats were turned over to Republicans. Republicans have held the majority ever since and controlled the agenda with speakers Boehner and Ryan.
Obamacare is about to be repealed. How's that "losing seats" strategy working out for you?
(By the way, never forget. Pelosi is the real hero of Obamacare. She kept fighting when Rahm Emanuel and Obama had given up.)
posted by JackFlash at 7:24 PM on January 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Trump is so immature that I can't believe he will go 100 days without doing something so stupid that someone will do something about it, whether impeachment or a military coup. Which it is depends a lot on what the stupid is and that could be anything, because Trump.
If the something results in impeachment, hello President Pence. He's almost worse in some ways but at least not a fucking unpredictable child. We know how bad he is.
If it's the military, probably because he orders a nuclear strike because those are the best bombs you know, then it's hard to say how it resolves. If Mattis is in charge I tend to think it revolves back to President Pence, but nothing like that has ever happened before. But unlike before I also think the guys with the nuclear codes are probably preparing, and have been since the election, to figure out how they will react to whatever tantrum the manchild in chief might direct their way. These are career guys who truly believe in duty. That means they will follow their POTUS up to a certain point, but I also think it means there is a point beyond which he is no longer their POTUS, politics be damned. And I would bet they have already gamed that out and identified that point and agreed among themselves about exactly where it is.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:29 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
If the something results in impeachment, hello President Pence. He's almost worse in some ways but at least not a fucking unpredictable child. We know how bad he is.
If it's the military, probably because he orders a nuclear strike because those are the best bombs you know, then it's hard to say how it resolves. If Mattis is in charge I tend to think it revolves back to President Pence, but nothing like that has ever happened before. But unlike before I also think the guys with the nuclear codes are probably preparing, and have been since the election, to figure out how they will react to whatever tantrum the manchild in chief might direct their way. These are career guys who truly believe in duty. That means they will follow their POTUS up to a certain point, but I also think it means there is a point beyond which he is no longer their POTUS, politics be damned. And I would bet they have already gamed that out and identified that point and agreed among themselves about exactly where it is.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:29 PM on January 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump’s Dangerous Anti-C.I.A. Crusade Op-Ed by Michael J Morell (deputy director and twice acting director of the CIA between 2010 and 2013)
...The president-elect’s rhetoric will undermine the effectiveness of the C.I.A. in two key ways. First, expect a wave of resignations. Attrition at the C.I.A., which has been remarkably low since Sept. 11, 2001, will skyrocket. The primary motivator for some of our smartest minds to go to work at the C.I.A. is to make a difference to national security, to play a role in keeping the country safe. All of the sacrifices — from the long hours, polygraph tests, unfair media criticism, not to mention the real dangers to life and limb — are worth it, if you are making a difference.
If the president rejects out of hand the C.I.A.’s work, or introduces uncertainty by praising it one day only to lambaste it on Twitter that afternoon, many officers will vote with their feet. These officers cannot be easily replaced. It takes years of training and, more important, on-the-job experience to create a highly capable case officer, analyst, scientist, engineer or support officer. It would take at least a decade to recover from a surge in resignations.
There is precedent for this. When President Jimmy Carter’s C.I.A. director, Stansfield Turner, made it clear that, in his view, technology was making human intelligence obsolete, hundreds of officers departed. He then fired hundreds of others who questioned his approach; it took years for the agency to return to its pre-Turner strength. The Trump resignations could make the Turner departures pale by comparison.
"He then fired hundreds of others who questioned his approach; it took years for the agency to return to its pre-Turner strength. The Trump resignations could make the Turner departures pale by comparison."
I will google (what I bolded) this but does anyone know if this is true or hyperbole?
posted by futz at 7:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
...The president-elect’s rhetoric will undermine the effectiveness of the C.I.A. in two key ways. First, expect a wave of resignations. Attrition at the C.I.A., which has been remarkably low since Sept. 11, 2001, will skyrocket. The primary motivator for some of our smartest minds to go to work at the C.I.A. is to make a difference to national security, to play a role in keeping the country safe. All of the sacrifices — from the long hours, polygraph tests, unfair media criticism, not to mention the real dangers to life and limb — are worth it, if you are making a difference.
If the president rejects out of hand the C.I.A.’s work, or introduces uncertainty by praising it one day only to lambaste it on Twitter that afternoon, many officers will vote with their feet. These officers cannot be easily replaced. It takes years of training and, more important, on-the-job experience to create a highly capable case officer, analyst, scientist, engineer or support officer. It would take at least a decade to recover from a surge in resignations.
There is precedent for this. When President Jimmy Carter’s C.I.A. director, Stansfield Turner, made it clear that, in his view, technology was making human intelligence obsolete, hundreds of officers departed. He then fired hundreds of others who questioned his approach; it took years for the agency to return to its pre-Turner strength. The Trump resignations could make the Turner departures pale by comparison.
"He then fired hundreds of others who questioned his approach; it took years for the agency to return to its pre-Turner strength. The Trump resignations could make the Turner departures pale by comparison."
I will google (what I bolded) this but does anyone know if this is true or hyperbole?
posted by futz at 7:30 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
But the Tea Party taught us a valuable lesson, if only we've got the courage to learn it: losing seats is sometimes preferable to harboring traitors.
I am with Ghostride the Whip and T.D. Strange: I think there are lessons to be learned from the success of the Tea Party, but "Ideological Purity Above All" is not one of them. "Ideological Purity Above All" only works when your ideology has a fundamental underpinning of racial/ethnic bigotry. Anything else leads to in-fighting--which is one of the reasons we ended up with Trump in the first place.
posted by Anonymous at 7:30 PM on January 7, 2017
I am with Ghostride the Whip and T.D. Strange: I think there are lessons to be learned from the success of the Tea Party, but "Ideological Purity Above All" is not one of them. "Ideological Purity Above All" only works when your ideology has a fundamental underpinning of racial/ethnic bigotry. Anything else leads to in-fighting--which is one of the reasons we ended up with Trump in the first place.
posted by Anonymous at 7:30 PM on January 7, 2017
My goals for the coming years are 1) try not to die 2) help those in more danger than myself until goal 1 is in jeopardy, 3) engage vigorously in local and state level politics until it becomes too dangerous or until those political entities become meaningless or non-existent.
Probably some very bad shit is going to happen. Bad shit that we're not even speculating about here yet. When those things happen, big chunks of the country will respond with mass outrage. Either this outrage will help matters or it won't, and if it doesn't then it'll be time to focus on doing whatever we can to prevent human suffering because there will be no shortage of it. We're living in real big-deal historic times now, and we have to start planning for or at least expecting the instability and uncertainty of those times.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:31 PM on January 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
Probably some very bad shit is going to happen. Bad shit that we're not even speculating about here yet. When those things happen, big chunks of the country will respond with mass outrage. Either this outrage will help matters or it won't, and if it doesn't then it'll be time to focus on doing whatever we can to prevent human suffering because there will be no shortage of it. We're living in real big-deal historic times now, and we have to start planning for or at least expecting the instability and uncertainty of those times.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:31 PM on January 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
Well JFK wanted to burn the CIA to the ground, look how well that worked out for him.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bill Perry Is Terrified. Why Aren’t You?
It might be time for headline writers to abandon this particular cliche
posted by theodolite at 7:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It might be time for headline writers to abandon this particular cliche
posted by theodolite at 7:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: 1) try not to die
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Trump is a walking Karma Houdini. Over his years of racism, scamming, cheating, tax evasions, and sexual assaults, he hasn't seen a day in jail or more than a slap on the wrist. He flaunts the law, conventional authority, and basic morals with every breath or Tweet. He has the values of a Captain Planet villain come to life. In a fair world he would have gone to jail years ago.
He is a walking example of the fact that the laws apply very differently to the rich and the privileged.
That kind of brutish behavior, rather than being seen as repulsive and vile, appeals to a lot of people, including a many very powerful ones (as well as people who want to be like Trump if they had the money and the legal clout). Even if they don't want to admit it.
So it goes.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [32 favorites]
He is a walking example of the fact that the laws apply very differently to the rich and the privileged.
That kind of brutish behavior, rather than being seen as repulsive and vile, appeals to a lot of people, including a many very powerful ones (as well as people who want to be like Trump if they had the money and the legal clout). Even if they don't want to admit it.
So it goes.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:35 PM on January 7, 2017 [32 favorites]
I would like not to die, and I would like for my nieces and nephews, who are mostly under the age of 8, to forgive us.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:36 PM on January 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Bill Perry Is Terrified. Why Aren’t You?
It might be time for headline writers to abandon this particular cliche
I am okay with it. You are probably not the audience that this article needs to reach.
posted by futz at 7:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
It might be time for headline writers to abandon this particular cliche
I am okay with it. You are probably not the audience that this article needs to reach.
posted by futz at 7:38 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would like for my nieces and nephews, who are mostly under the age of 8, to forgive us.
I think that boat has done sailed. Whatever "we" have done, for any value of "we," our generation has left them a hell of a mess and they may not survive it. If I was their age I would be hella pissed off.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:39 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think that boat has done sailed. Whatever "we" have done, for any value of "we," our generation has left them a hell of a mess and they may not survive it. If I was their age I would be hella pissed off.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:39 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I will google (what I bolded) this but does anyone know if this is true or hyperbole?
Yes. It's called the Halloween massacre and was 800-something people.
posted by Talez at 7:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes. It's called the Halloween massacre and was 800-something people.
posted by Talez at 7:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Does anyone listen to My Favorite Murder podcast?
Stay sexy, don't get murdered
posted by waitangi at 7:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Stay sexy, don't get murdered
posted by waitangi at 7:42 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think that boat has done sailed. Whatever "we" have done, for any value of "we," our generation has left them a hell of a mess and they may not survive it. If I was their age I would be hella pissed off.
This isn't helpful at all imo.
posted by futz at 7:43 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
This isn't helpful at all imo.
posted by futz at 7:43 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
So what's the best case scenario at this point?
1) Trump somehow doesn't start a nuclear war.
2) Republicans figure out health care is hard, and can't agree on an Obamacare replacement/repeal. Some number of GOP senators from Medicaid expansion states actually refuse to vote for straight repeal. Events progress, and repeal does not happen.
3) Paul Ryan comes after Medicare. Democrats repeat 2005 and successfully marshal public opinion to stop it.
4) 2018 rolls around and they lose the House after attacking Medicare. And possibly compounded by economic turmoil. The Rust Belt realizes they were conned, and Trump is never reopening their factories or steel mills.
5) Dems minimize 2018 Senate losses and somehow retain 45-46 seats, with "traitors" like Manchin and McKaskell surviving again.
6) Someone other than Chuck Schumer, Corey Booker, or Andrew Cuomo win the 2020 primary. Bernie Sanders doesn't run and his personality cult fades.
At this point we're back to almost normal, notwithstanding whatever other damage to policy and democracy Republicans manage to inflict. This is the best case, unicornland, it's going to actually be way fucking worse, pollyanna scenario.
Other factors that need to happen -
- Europe rejects Le Pen and rightwing / Russian-back parties in Germany, France and Italy.
- The EU doesn't break up
- Russia doesn't decide to invade Europe anyway
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
1) Trump somehow doesn't start a nuclear war.
2) Republicans figure out health care is hard, and can't agree on an Obamacare replacement/repeal. Some number of GOP senators from Medicaid expansion states actually refuse to vote for straight repeal. Events progress, and repeal does not happen.
3) Paul Ryan comes after Medicare. Democrats repeat 2005 and successfully marshal public opinion to stop it.
4) 2018 rolls around and they lose the House after attacking Medicare. And possibly compounded by economic turmoil. The Rust Belt realizes they were conned, and Trump is never reopening their factories or steel mills.
5) Dems minimize 2018 Senate losses and somehow retain 45-46 seats, with "traitors" like Manchin and McKaskell surviving again.
6) Someone other than Chuck Schumer, Corey Booker, or Andrew Cuomo win the 2020 primary. Bernie Sanders doesn't run and his personality cult fades.
At this point we're back to almost normal, notwithstanding whatever other damage to policy and democracy Republicans manage to inflict. This is the best case, unicornland, it's going to actually be way fucking worse, pollyanna scenario.
Other factors that need to happen -
- Europe rejects Le Pen and rightwing / Russian-back parties in Germany, France and Italy.
- The EU doesn't break up
- Russia doesn't decide to invade Europe anyway
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
What would have to happen for Trump to have the shortest presidency ever? I mean legally, obviously I don't mean violence or whatever, but are there any checks in place to remove bad presidents? I keep hearing "Oh he'll be impeached" but I'm having trouble understanding what that would look like, or if it's even likely?
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
...does anyone know if this is true or hyperbole?
This is revisionist. From Legacy of Ashes:
This is revisionist. From Legacy of Ashes:
The morals of the Carter administration were not good for morale at CIA headquarters. Admiral Turner tried to hew to Carter's pledge about never lying to the American people. This was a dilemma for the chief of a secret intelligence service, whose operators depended on deceit to succeed. What little confidence Turner had in the clandestine service was constantly chiseled away by acts of subversion.posted by Coventry at 7:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
...
Turner was a Christian Scientist who drank hot water with lemon instead of coffee or tea. The old boys preferred whisky in their water. They scorned Turner in word and deed. Turner wrote years later that his enemies within the clandestine service tried to discredit him with disinformation campaigns—"one of their basic skills." Chief among these was a story that has persisted for a quarter century: that Turner was singlehandedly responsible for the gutting of the clandestine service in the 1970s. The first deep cuts had been ordered by Nixon. One thousand covert operators had been let go by James Schlesinger. George Bush, under Ford, had chosen to ignore a recommendation from his own covertaction chief that 2,000 more should depart. Turner wound up cutting precisely 825, starting with the bottom 5 percent on the performance charts. He had the president's support. "We were aware that some of the unqualified and incompetent personnel whom he discharged were deeply resentful, but I fully approved," Jimmy Carter said in a letter to the author.
Talez, TY, I have heard the phrase before but not anything else. Several people in these mefi posts have recommended books on the CIA and I have added them all to my reading list.
posted by futz at 7:53 PM on January 7, 2017
posted by futz at 7:53 PM on January 7, 2017
What would have to happen for Trump to have the shortest presidency ever?
Since William Henry Harrison was President for only 31 days that would take some doing.
posted by Justinian at 7:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Since William Henry Harrison was President for only 31 days that would take some doing.
posted by Justinian at 7:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
(I was honestly thinking that it shouldn't take that long for a lot of supporters to realize that America is not any greater and that they were played, but those are the same people that somehow think the past 8 years have been the most horrible awful dark period imaginable).
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:54 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
- Europe rejects Le Pen and rightwing / Russian-back parties in Germany, France and Italy.
The left in France is doing everything they can to try and fuck this up. Instead of going through the socialist primary and uniting behind a single candidate, En Marche and La France Insoumise are making sure the left is split three ways while the right is split only two ways (Les Républicains and Front National). At this point in time the runoff election is going to come down to Thatcherism vs Trumpism.
posted by Talez at 7:55 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
The left in France is doing everything they can to try and fuck this up. Instead of going through the socialist primary and uniting behind a single candidate, En Marche and La France Insoumise are making sure the left is split three ways while the right is split only two ways (Les Républicains and Front National). At this point in time the runoff election is going to come down to Thatcherism vs Trumpism.
posted by Talez at 7:55 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
What would have to happen for Trump to have the shortest presidency ever? I mean legally, obviously I don't mean violence or whatever, but are there any checks in place to remove bad presidents? I keep hearing "Oh he'll be impeached" but I'm having trouble understanding what that would look like, or if it's even likely?
The extended forecast for the 20th says 50ish degrees, and his inaguration speech will only be 140 characters. So I doubt he's going to beat William Henry Harrison.
Stop thinking about him being impeached. It won't happen. Ever. Under any circumstances. It's worse than fan fiction. Republicans Do. Not. Give. Two. Fucks. As. Long. As. They. Get. Tax. Cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 PM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
The extended forecast for the 20th says 50ish degrees, and his inaguration speech will only be 140 characters. So I doubt he's going to beat William Henry Harrison.
Stop thinking about him being impeached. It won't happen. Ever. Under any circumstances. It's worse than fan fiction. Republicans Do. Not. Give. Two. Fucks. As. Long. As. They. Get. Tax. Cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 PM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
This isn't helpful at all imo.
I think we are past the point where "helpful" is a gauge. Our world is going to change in massive ways. Our civilization may not survive, considering the number of critical manufacturing facilities that exist on floodplains because of the transportation options that were available when they were built. The skilled people who know how it all works are at minimal levels with no redundancy and a big disaster could wipe out entire areas of engineering knowledge, much of which is still secret or "disclosed" via patent in ways that make it impossible to really duplicate the original work. Huge populations are soon going to be displaced, and if I'm unfortunate enough to live long enough I will almost certainly be among them. But I did my part you know, I voted for Hillary.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think we are past the point where "helpful" is a gauge. Our world is going to change in massive ways. Our civilization may not survive, considering the number of critical manufacturing facilities that exist on floodplains because of the transportation options that were available when they were built. The skilled people who know how it all works are at minimal levels with no redundancy and a big disaster could wipe out entire areas of engineering knowledge, much of which is still secret or "disclosed" via patent in ways that make it impossible to really duplicate the original work. Huge populations are soon going to be displaced, and if I'm unfortunate enough to live long enough I will almost certainly be among them. But I did my part you know, I voted for Hillary.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:56 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
The left in France is doing everything they can to try and fuck this up. Instead of going through the socialist primary and uniting behind a single candidate, En Marche and La France Insoumise are making sure the left is split three ways while the right is split only two ways (Les Républicains and Front National). At this point in time the runoff election is going to come down to Thatcherism vs Trumpism.
I know, and I don't know whether to cry or take solace that the permanent circular firing squad is everywhere and not just here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know, and I don't know whether to cry or take solace that the permanent circular firing squad is everywhere and not just here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anyone interested in the Kennedy assassination and its relationship to the CIA would do well to read A Cruel and Shocking Act by Philip Shenon. It is primarily based on a combination of interviews with Arlen Spector (who was an aide to the Warren Commission, and approached Shenon about the writing a book on the Commission because he was so impressed by his book on the 9/11 Commission), and government documents which were declassified earlier this decade.
posted by Coventry at 7:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 7:57 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Stop thinking about him being impeached. It won't happen. Ever. Under any circumstances. It's worse than fan fiction. Republicans Do. Not. Give. Two. Fucks. As. Long. As. They. Get. Tax. Cuts.
Thank you! I'm in Canada so I'm trying to understand the political system and what checks it has to protect itself against bad presidents, but I'm finding so much opinion, and sites that are supposed to be fact-based contradict each other, so I'm lost.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:59 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thank you! I'm in Canada so I'm trying to understand the political system and what checks it has to protect itself against bad presidents, but I'm finding so much opinion, and sites that are supposed to be fact-based contradict each other, so I'm lost.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:59 PM on January 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thank you! I'm in Canada so I'm trying to understand the political system and what checks it has to protect itself against bad presidents, but I'm finding so much opinion, and sites that are supposed to be fact-based contradict each other, so I'm lost.
The only checks reside in Congress. And Republicans will never, ever, exercise them against their own Fuhrer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
The only checks reside in Congress. And Republicans will never, ever, exercise them against their own Fuhrer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hazelsmrf: I'm in Canada so I'm trying to understand the political system and what checks it has to protect itself against bad presidents, but I'm finding so much opinion, and sites that are supposed to be fact-based contradict each other, so I'm lost.Don't worry, we Americans are, too.
posted by ragtag at 8:03 PM on January 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder what the best strategies for stripping those other right-wing parties of recruits or voters would be, or if it'll more be a matter of enough left-wingers coming out to vote. While there is a hard-right neofascist heart who won't and can't be reasoned with, these people wouldn't win elections only with the help of their army of diehard fanatics.
At this point survival means diverting as much of their popular support as possible to non-fascist alternatives, even if they aren't the best people, either.
(Not that that worked for us, but on the other hand Trump didn't have any serious conservative competition after the primaries.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:05 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
At this point survival means diverting as much of their popular support as possible to non-fascist alternatives, even if they aren't the best people, either.
(Not that that worked for us, but on the other hand Trump didn't have any serious conservative competition after the primaries.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:05 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The left in France is doing everything they can to try and fuck this up. Instead of going through the socialist primary and uniting behind a single candidate, En Marche and La France Insoumise are making sure the left is split three ways while the right is split only two ways
For fuck's sake, do they not see what happened when we tried that?!
Then again, the US didn't learn from Brexit, so why should anyone learn from us?
posted by Anonymous at 8:14 PM on January 7, 2017
For fuck's sake, do they not see what happened when we tried that?!
Then again, the US didn't learn from Brexit, so why should anyone learn from us?
posted by Anonymous at 8:14 PM on January 7, 2017
I agree with Joey Michaels that if we get through a Trump presidency without nuclear warfare I think it will be a success.
posted by Anonymous at 8:17 PM on January 7, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 8:17 PM on January 7, 2017
Thank you! I'm in Canada so I'm trying to understand the political system and what checks it has to protect itself against bad presidents
The other two branches are checks against a bad President. Sadly, we also have a bad Congress and soon a bad Supreme Court. So....
posted by Justinian at 8:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
The other two branches are checks against a bad President. Sadly, we also have a bad Congress and soon a bad Supreme Court. So....
posted by Justinian at 8:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bringer Tom, my point was that it is not helpful to terrify 8 year old children. You said that If I was their age I would be hella pissed off.
I doubt that children fully grok the magnitude of what is going on and that they have the capability to be "hella pissed" about it. And yes, I understand that kids pick up on adult fears etc etc but at 8 years we do not need to armageddon-terrify them. Thats all.
posted by futz at 8:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I doubt that children fully grok the magnitude of what is going on and that they have the capability to be "hella pissed" about it. And yes, I understand that kids pick up on adult fears etc etc but at 8 years we do not need to armageddon-terrify them. Thats all.
posted by futz at 8:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
futz: And yes, I understand that kids pick up on adult fears etc etc but at 8 years we do not need to armageddon-terrify them.I don't think Bringer Tom was saying that we should intentionally terrorize children: simply that once they realize what's being done to their generation, they'll be furious.
You know, kinda like a lot of people in my generation (Millenials) are.
posted by ragtag at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
For fuck's sake, do they not see what happened when we tried that?!
It's a rock and a hard place thing. Macron doesn't want Hollande's stink all over him (PS is polling about the same favorability as foot fungus right now) and the PS as an institution doesn't have the capability to respond to this situation. Meanwhile Jean-Luc Mélenchon just wants to be the bomb thrower but just ends up being a left-wing version of Nigel Farage. He has the support of the radical left who think they know better than everyone but nobody else. But when has political reality ever meant anything to the radical left?
posted by Talez at 8:28 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's a rock and a hard place thing. Macron doesn't want Hollande's stink all over him (PS is polling about the same favorability as foot fungus right now) and the PS as an institution doesn't have the capability to respond to this situation. Meanwhile Jean-Luc Mélenchon just wants to be the bomb thrower but just ends up being a left-wing version of Nigel Farage. He has the support of the radical left who think they know better than everyone but nobody else. But when has political reality ever meant anything to the radical left?
posted by Talez at 8:28 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
thedarksideofprocyon, I believe it will come down to tapping the vast pool of people who did not vote in this election rather than hoping to convert Republican voters from this election. They voted the way they did for their own reasons, in spite of the vast amount of journalism which spelled out exactly what Trump was as a person, even though that same journalism also concentrated a lot of energy on "but...but emails."
Economically, the majority of his voters voted against their self interest. Only they can say why they did that, but their economic situations will likely not improve under Trump, many of them will lose their health insurance if Congress repeals the ACA without an affordable, viable replacement, the promised coal and manufacturing jobs will not have returned and what we do have is a stupidly conceived wall worth billions to pay for. So, a net loss all the way around, but it won't be characterized as Trump's fault or Congress' fault,. It will be spun as removing Democratic legacies and these people will remain in line because voting Republican is filling some other need in them beyond the practical needs.
Our only hope is motivating the non-voting people to genuinely research the candidates so they can make reasoned decisions all the way down the ballot and hopefully have enough Democratic candidates who inspire them to actually vote next time. That is going to be a big job to locate and inspire largely anonymous people--a little bit less than half of the eligible voting public. Oh, and put a stop to voter suppression efforts. And hope there is an election in 2020.
posted by Silverstone at 8:29 PM on January 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Economically, the majority of his voters voted against their self interest. Only they can say why they did that, but their economic situations will likely not improve under Trump, many of them will lose their health insurance if Congress repeals the ACA without an affordable, viable replacement, the promised coal and manufacturing jobs will not have returned and what we do have is a stupidly conceived wall worth billions to pay for. So, a net loss all the way around, but it won't be characterized as Trump's fault or Congress' fault,. It will be spun as removing Democratic legacies and these people will remain in line because voting Republican is filling some other need in them beyond the practical needs.
Our only hope is motivating the non-voting people to genuinely research the candidates so they can make reasoned decisions all the way down the ballot and hopefully have enough Democratic candidates who inspire them to actually vote next time. That is going to be a big job to locate and inspire largely anonymous people--a little bit less than half of the eligible voting public. Oh, and put a stop to voter suppression efforts. And hope there is an election in 2020.
posted by Silverstone at 8:29 PM on January 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
I think every entertainer, athlete, and celebrity needs to double down on being anti Trumpism. From country to pop to rock to football to baseball to basketball to actors and general famous people. Leave no quarter for youngish fair weather trump voters to still feel cool and with it and part of the in crowd.
posted by ian1977 at 8:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 8:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
I doubt that children fully grok the magnitude of what is going on and that they have the capability to be "hella pissed" about it. And yes, I understand that kids pick up on adult fears etc etc but at 8 years we do not need to armageddon-terrify them. Thats all.
I don't think he meant telling them directly or anything.
Regardless and this is the sad part 8 year olds will know and they will be terrified. Maybe not detailed understanding of what or why but they will know.
I still remember being 8 and being terrified to the point that every airplane noise I heard in the sky made me flinch and listen closely in case it was a nuclear bomb. And this was the 70-80s in Canada and with a relatively limited sphere of information compared to what today's kids live in.
Kids will have this now plus all of talk about climate change. I've already heard 7 year olds talk about the tornado that wrecked part of their town because of climate changing. And thunderstorms and floods getting them because the climate is going to get them. I've heard kids talk about food being hard in the future and how it's gonna suck. They may not understand the sheer level of suck but they know it's not good.
I've also heard 10 year olds talk about what they're doing activist wise with at least part of the context being 'because adults aren't doing it good enough'.
I've heard my 12 year nephew and his friend making matter of fact comments while playing X-Box about adults being so stupid and killing the world so maybe there is no point but to just play X-Box and have some fun.
They know.
posted by Jalliah at 8:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
I don't think he meant telling them directly or anything.
Regardless and this is the sad part 8 year olds will know and they will be terrified. Maybe not detailed understanding of what or why but they will know.
I still remember being 8 and being terrified to the point that every airplane noise I heard in the sky made me flinch and listen closely in case it was a nuclear bomb. And this was the 70-80s in Canada and with a relatively limited sphere of information compared to what today's kids live in.
Kids will have this now plus all of talk about climate change. I've already heard 7 year olds talk about the tornado that wrecked part of their town because of climate changing. And thunderstorms and floods getting them because the climate is going to get them. I've heard kids talk about food being hard in the future and how it's gonna suck. They may not understand the sheer level of suck but they know it's not good.
I've also heard 10 year olds talk about what they're doing activist wise with at least part of the context being 'because adults aren't doing it good enough'.
I've heard my 12 year nephew and his friend making matter of fact comments while playing X-Box about adults being so stupid and killing the world so maybe there is no point but to just play X-Box and have some fun.
They know.
posted by Jalliah at 8:32 PM on January 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
I'm 32. We knew about climate change in 5th grade. Remember Earth Day? That was 1994-5. We talked about how much it would suck in 20 years because no one was doing anything about it.
And here we are. Kids aren't stupid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [53 favorites]
And here we are. Kids aren't stupid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [53 favorites]
but on the other hand Trump didn't have any serious conservative competition after the primaries.)
"Serious conservative" is relative.
But then, dear God, McMullen sounds like a dream right now. (This, my friends, is the fucking Overton window. And then the left will complain we've abandoned our principles.)
ut when has political reality ever meant anything to the radical left?
Something-something REVOLUTION. Because fuck the system, right?
So what's the best case scenario at this point?
Trump waves his hands and shouts "psych!" and then HRC emerges behind a curtain, takes a bow, and gets sworn in by RBG.
Or do you mean reality?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Serious conservative" is relative.
But then, dear God, McMullen sounds like a dream right now. (This, my friends, is the fucking Overton window. And then the left will complain we've abandoned our principles.)
ut when has political reality ever meant anything to the radical left?
Something-something REVOLUTION. Because fuck the system, right?
So what's the best case scenario at this point?
Trump waves his hands and shouts "psych!" and then HRC emerges behind a curtain, takes a bow, and gets sworn in by RBG.
Or do you mean reality?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:40 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
My best case scenario as a Canadian is:
No flying nukes.
Not screwing with trade agreements in a way that tanks our economy so people here will bitch about the Trudeau wrecking it and how much we need Trumpism to fix it (we have dingbats here too).
Someone somehow convincing the admin and Donald that the US really should get on board with the whole climate change thing. Ironically the most likely candidate to do this is Putin (and yes I know how ridiculous that sounds but I think he is one of the only people in the world that Donald would actually listen to about this and Putin is showing signs that it's in Russia's strategic (selfish) interests to do something. And yes it will be just about furthering Russian interests in the changes that are going to happen but something is better then nothing at this point)
posted by Jalliah at 8:48 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I doubt that children fully grok the magnitude of what is going on and that they have the capability to be "hella pissed" about it.
My daughter reacted strongly to the Trump win. She is 10 though, not 8. She has both American citizenship and Canadian so she was interested in the election. She was upset that morning when she woke up and realized Trump won. I didn't realize that she had been following things so closely, and for sure she didn't have a very large grasp on what was going on (neither do I really), but what she knew was that "the bad man won". In her eyes it was quite simple. There was a man that was saying not-nice things, and he won. She understood more than people expected her to, so I do think some kids will have the capability of being "hella pissed" about it.
My son is autistic, he's 7. He also has dual citizenship. He's not your typical 7 year old, he views the world in ways that I can't imagine. And he absorbs absolutely everything that is said in front of him. We let them stay up for new years. At midnight he started crying. It took a while to understand why he was crying. He fully expected that at midnight, a bomb would go off, the world would explode. He had been hearing people talking about how 2017 was going to be bad, and that's how he understood it. He also didn't have a perfect understanding of what was going on, but kids are perceptive, they feel. They might not know why they have the emotions that they do, but they have them nonetheless.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 8:50 PM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
My daughter reacted strongly to the Trump win. She is 10 though, not 8. She has both American citizenship and Canadian so she was interested in the election. She was upset that morning when she woke up and realized Trump won. I didn't realize that she had been following things so closely, and for sure she didn't have a very large grasp on what was going on (neither do I really), but what she knew was that "the bad man won". In her eyes it was quite simple. There was a man that was saying not-nice things, and he won. She understood more than people expected her to, so I do think some kids will have the capability of being "hella pissed" about it.
My son is autistic, he's 7. He also has dual citizenship. He's not your typical 7 year old, he views the world in ways that I can't imagine. And he absorbs absolutely everything that is said in front of him. We let them stay up for new years. At midnight he started crying. It took a while to understand why he was crying. He fully expected that at midnight, a bomb would go off, the world would explode. He had been hearing people talking about how 2017 was going to be bad, and that's how he understood it. He also didn't have a perfect understanding of what was going on, but kids are perceptive, they feel. They might not know why they have the emotions that they do, but they have them nonetheless.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 8:50 PM on January 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Oh goodness guys. I was a cold war kid. I get it. Apologies for the derail.
posted by futz at 9:10 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by futz at 9:10 PM on January 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was thinking more about hypothetical ways to stop Le Pen and her ilk in France/Germany/Italy. They're scary people and they're riding high right now, but they aren't invincible. There has to be a way to stop them, counter them, or at least drain their support enough to stand a chance.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:10 PM on January 7, 2017
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:10 PM on January 7, 2017
I'm sorry, darksideofprocyon. On re-reading, I can see now that you meant other countries' elections. I can only plead that I'm still suffering tunnel vision from the results of the U. S. election.
posted by Silverstone at 9:17 PM on January 7, 2017
posted by Silverstone at 9:17 PM on January 7, 2017
If you're greedy, ambitions, and immoral and want to make lots of money, it's time to move to the Washington D.C. area, assuming you're not already there. The looting is going to start on day one.
posted by cell divide at 9:19 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 9:19 PM on January 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the best approach to the Manchins in the party is to keep them as long as we need them but pump some serious money and effort into organizing activists and running candidates in downballot races in their states to get us to a point a few years from now when we don't need them. And hell, at that point Manchin himself would probably change his tune if he had the political space to do it. You can primary Manchin out of ideological purity concerns and when that gets a Republican elected in his place, the best case scenario for the next Democratic Senator from WV will be yet another Manchin, unless you plant the seeds of a better crop.
My biggest concern for future elections is still the as-yet-uncrackable nut of trust in journalism. Because until that shit's fixed, this is our life from now on: best case scenario someday we get an Obama 2.0 with a better hand to play in Congress whose work still gets undone next time around because the media drops the fucking ball again. Just picture the media trying to navigate a future when the Republicans realize that they can take the middle and get more votes by "softening" on social issues and still going full throttle on everything else, doubling down on the Lee Atwater approach - the media can't even deal with in-your-face bigoted authoritarianism, how would they ever cope with a candidate that's truly devious? Think of a more believable and charismatic Paul Ryan who talks like our Egg, running on a platform of "healing the nation" and "unity". A more skilled Marco Rubio. In the current media climate, that candidate would be put up on a pedestal so high it would require supplemental oxygen.
And at the moment, this journalism issue is a war on two fronts, because Trump's such an outlier. We've got to figure out how to deal with the problem of covering Trump in the media, which is totally its own thing and absolutely imperative, BUT: say the news media figures that one out, and, oh my god, impeachment! We did it! ...and then we wake up the next morning and remember that we still haven't figured out how to cover the fucking Pences of the world. Despite the opportunity we had during Obama's presidency to figure that out in relative peace without the Sword of Damocles over our heads and make facts stick to Boehner, Ryan, McConnell, et al. Dump Trump and then after the champagne is popped and we all breathe a sigh of relief and recover from one hell of a celebratory hangover, aaaallllll the bog-standard normal Republican evils are suddenly "reasonable" in comparison and we still don't know how to cover that and get ~50% of the country to believe it.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:25 PM on January 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
My biggest concern for future elections is still the as-yet-uncrackable nut of trust in journalism. Because until that shit's fixed, this is our life from now on: best case scenario someday we get an Obama 2.0 with a better hand to play in Congress whose work still gets undone next time around because the media drops the fucking ball again. Just picture the media trying to navigate a future when the Republicans realize that they can take the middle and get more votes by "softening" on social issues and still going full throttle on everything else, doubling down on the Lee Atwater approach - the media can't even deal with in-your-face bigoted authoritarianism, how would they ever cope with a candidate that's truly devious? Think of a more believable and charismatic Paul Ryan who talks like our Egg, running on a platform of "healing the nation" and "unity". A more skilled Marco Rubio. In the current media climate, that candidate would be put up on a pedestal so high it would require supplemental oxygen.
And at the moment, this journalism issue is a war on two fronts, because Trump's such an outlier. We've got to figure out how to deal with the problem of covering Trump in the media, which is totally its own thing and absolutely imperative, BUT: say the news media figures that one out, and, oh my god, impeachment! We did it! ...and then we wake up the next morning and remember that we still haven't figured out how to cover the fucking Pences of the world. Despite the opportunity we had during Obama's presidency to figure that out in relative peace without the Sword of Damocles over our heads and make facts stick to Boehner, Ryan, McConnell, et al. Dump Trump and then after the champagne is popped and we all breathe a sigh of relief and recover from one hell of a celebratory hangover, aaaallllll the bog-standard normal Republican evils are suddenly "reasonable" in comparison and we still don't know how to cover that and get ~50% of the country to believe it.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:25 PM on January 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
Hundreds rally in sub-zero temps to show love, not hate, defines Whitefish
Bitterly cold weather Saturday morning did not deter hundreds of people from showing up next to Depot Park to remind the rest of the world that Whitefish is more than a town that, these days, is often identified with a leader of the white nationalist movement.
Speakers spoke, singers sang, dancers danced and children and adults painted signs promoting harmony among the human race at a two-hour event organized by two local women who decided they “needed to do something” in the wake of media coverage that focused on the politics of part-time Whitefish resident Richard Spencer and the so-called alt-right.
posted by futz at 10:10 PM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
Bitterly cold weather Saturday morning did not deter hundreds of people from showing up next to Depot Park to remind the rest of the world that Whitefish is more than a town that, these days, is often identified with a leader of the white nationalist movement.
Speakers spoke, singers sang, dancers danced and children and adults painted signs promoting harmony among the human race at a two-hour event organized by two local women who decided they “needed to do something” in the wake of media coverage that focused on the politics of part-time Whitefish resident Richard Spencer and the so-called alt-right.
posted by futz at 10:10 PM on January 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
It has to be stressed how big a deal it is to get hundreds of people together anywhere near Whitefish, particularly in the middle of winter. My Montana's a fine state and this isn't the last you'll be seeing about local resistance here.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:18 PM on January 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
Doonesbury Vs. Trump '17
(of course they've been at it a long time)
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:03 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
(of course they've been at it a long time)
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:03 PM on January 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
One of my thoughts on the issue of where this stuff finds support from previously reasonable people is that alt-rightism/fascism feeds off a very specific power fantasy common to but not limited to insecure young white men - strength, being the Big Man, or having a Big Man to protect you from "SJWs" or The Scary Other. People like Milo feed into this fantasy, and I think it's very seductive to a certain kind of person. They make arguments that sound very soothing and comforting to those people - not us, we aren't fooled for a moment, but they present a very different face to us. They see us as targets, not potential recruits, and they change their tune depending on who they're talking to.
These people are professional weasels who can make very bad shit sound good. They also know how to frame liberals as The Real Bad Guys, which is a tactic we should be wary of and will probably see employed in the future.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
These people are professional weasels who can make very bad shit sound good. They also know how to frame liberals as The Real Bad Guys, which is a tactic we should be wary of and will probably see employed in the future.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:52 PM on January 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
let me try my hand at this:
jan. 2017: trump, in thrall to putin, who has both personally damaging information on him as well as unreleased hacked info from the RNC, refuses to accept US intel on the election hack. after the inauguration, trump lobotomizes US intel agencies to stop the internal criticism and potential for leaks, firing or demoralizing hundreds of agents.
august 2017: a major terror attack happens, taking advantage of the disarray in US intel.
november 2017: trump initiates internment and watchlists against undesirables, and martial law in certain cities. riots break out across the US.
december 2017: Putin giggles.
posted by wibari at 11:58 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
jan. 2017: trump, in thrall to putin, who has both personally damaging information on him as well as unreleased hacked info from the RNC, refuses to accept US intel on the election hack. after the inauguration, trump lobotomizes US intel agencies to stop the internal criticism and potential for leaks, firing or demoralizing hundreds of agents.
august 2017: a major terror attack happens, taking advantage of the disarray in US intel.
november 2017: trump initiates internment and watchlists against undesirables, and martial law in certain cities. riots break out across the US.
december 2017: Putin giggles.
posted by wibari at 11:58 PM on January 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's good wibari, but you forgot the part where the republicans blame Obama, and take the opportunity to move the entire social security fund to their private numbered accounts at Goldman Sachs. You know, for safekeeping in these troubling times.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
And the part when Trump declares war on and tries to nuke a country which he thought he could pick on and look good (i.e, Iran, North Korea).
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:11 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:11 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I remember hearing that she's concerning a 2020 run, or her name's being floated. Is that true?
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:38 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:38 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nancy Pelosi is 76 years old; part of the Democrats' Old Guard (with emphasis on old). If she was going to try for the Presidency, she should've tried before now, but she was one of the many who unwisely yielded so Hillary could have her day in the sun. Still, IMO, she would've been more worthy to be the First Woman President, but maybe that's just the Californian me talkin'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:56 AM on January 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:56 AM on January 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
To further get a grip on the Russia angle it is worth considering The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia see wiki and Reddit thread
posted by adamvasco at 2:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 2:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why the white working class votes against itself
That article takes far too many words to say "Because if you can't punch the rich people who fucked you, you can at least punch down at poor people like the rich people do to you".
posted by Talez at 4:23 AM on January 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
That article takes far too many words to say "Because if you can't punch the rich people who fucked you, you can at least punch down at poor people like the rich people do to you".
posted by Talez at 4:23 AM on January 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
For MeFites old enough to remember, if we were having this discussion in January 1981 with the pending Reagan inauguration, would there be less anxiety?
I was pretty anxious. Reagan as governor had brought the national guard onto the streets of Berkeley and had them drop tear gas from helicopters. There's a lot I blame the Reagan administration for, but it didn't result in the global nuclear annihilation that I might have feared.
posted by Edward L at 4:35 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was pretty anxious. Reagan as governor had brought the national guard onto the streets of Berkeley and had them drop tear gas from helicopters. There's a lot I blame the Reagan administration for, but it didn't result in the global nuclear annihilation that I might have feared.
posted by Edward L at 4:35 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
They also know how to frame liberals as The Real Bad Guys, which is a tactic we should be wary of and will probably see employed in the future.
They've been doing this for decades, actually.
I do remember when Reagan was elected, and it was pretty scary, and he was a lot more popular then than Trump is now.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:11 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
They've been doing this for decades, actually.
I do remember when Reagan was elected, and it was pretty scary, and he was a lot more popular then than Trump is now.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:11 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd be perfectly happy if we didn't have to actually primary anyone. But we need to get making lists now, and we need to let the DINO scum know they're on those lists. "Hi Senator, I'm with [insert catchy group name here] and our members are prepared to donate $5 to a fund a primary challenger for you every single time you vote for a Trump nominee or vote to end a Democratic filibuster." That'd make them sit up and take notice.
If we can get the job done, and that job is total and relentless obstruction and resistance to every single thing Trump wants, with nothing but threats I'm very happy.
My objective here is not ideological purity, but survival. We won't live through the next four years without unified Democratic obstruction. I've got friends and family who are in the crosshairs of the Trumpers and I do not want, when they've been murdered or sent off to the concentration camps, to say "well, I would have tried harder but then I might have endangered a DINO's reelection chances".
This isn't Reagan or even Junior, this is Fascism looming and we must win.
If we can win by keeping all the DINO's, I say we must keep the DINO's. If we can win by purging the DINO's, I say we must purge the DINO's. My objective is survival followed by victory.
I don't see how we can manage that without terrifying the wavering scum into voting the right way, and the threat of primary challengers is pretty much the only thing they fear. Appeals to their better natures are doomed to fail as they have none. Only fear will motivate a Manchin to vote properly, so we must make them fear or they'll be betray us.
T.D. Strange This would take far more message discipline than Democrats have ever had.
Agree completely. They need a lot more message discipline if we're going to survive these next four years, and that **STARTS** with getting the DINO's to stop betraying us on every single vote that matters.
Yes, they vote with us 80% of the time or whatever. Guess what? That 80% is for mindless unimportant bullshit that the Republicans also vote with us on, all the bills praising X, or resolving that Y is great, or establishing that the Chuck Wagon is our National Food Vehicle. No one gives a shit about that.
The question is: will they vote with us on the stuff that matters? Will they betray us and vote to end critical filibusters?
If no, then fine, keep them. They aren't hurting us.
If yes, then the fact that they have a "D" in front of their names doesn't actually benefit us in the slightest.
Serious question: what, exactly, is the difference between a "Democrat", like Manchin, who votes with the Republicans on all the essential votes, and an actual Republican? Why, exactly, is it superior to have a Democrat be the 60th vote against a filibuster rather than a Republican? What in particular makes it better for one of the votes for Trump's evil lineup of appointees to be a nominal Democrat instead of an open Republican?
I seem to be missing something critical here, because people like you keep telling me that it's better to have a guy who votes 100% with the Republicans on all the important things, but calls himself a Democrat, than it is to have an open and honest Republican. And I don't see how that's better at all.
We have them there for their votes, not for their party name, right? So if they vote Republican why should it matter if they lie and call themselves Democrats? To me that seems worse because then the Republicans can claim that those traitor scum made their evil bipartisan, and in America that word still holds a lot of sway (for reasons that totally baffle me, but that's a different argument).
A coalition party cannot act this way, especially when the "cost" you're throwing to the wind is quite literally the lives and freedom of many of the people you would need to commit to the sacrifice vote. "Primary Joe Manchin and lose your health insurance anyway, but you'll make me feel better about your suffering" isn't the quite winning message you think.
The R's are as much a coalition party as we are, and they manage it just fine.
More to the point though, I disagree with your premise, the people are going to lose **BECAUSE** the Manchins are going to vote to hurt them.
"Vote Democratic, we're so craven we keep the scumbags who voted to hurt you!" isn't really the winning message you seem to think it is.
Another serious question: at what point do you think giving up Manchin and his vile ilk is a good idea? Is it a vote percentage? How many times do they have to betray us and vote to support Trump's evil before you say "hmmm, perhaps spending millions to keep electing these people isn't a good idea?"
If Manchin voted with Trump 100% of the time would you still think keeping him around is a good idea? If so, why? To me having an honest enemy seems superior to having a false friend. At least then we can say "see, it would have been different if we had more Democrats", but with the Manchins we have to say "oh well, our guys voted for the stuff to fuck you sideways too, so I guess we're equally bad".
It seems to me that you're being too tribal, too strongly identifying with the mere label and forgetting the purpose of having a party is to win not just to say we had a lot of guys on our team.
As I said, and as the people who keep sneering "ideological purity" at me keep missing: I'm making my like of primaries conditional on their voting. If they vote for us but badmouth us, well, ok. That's not ideal but I'll tolerate it. If they vote against us, well, how is that different from having a Republican?
JackFlash Obamacare is about to be repealed. How's that "losing seats" strategy working out for you?
I'd ask you the same. No one votes Democratic because the Democrats stand boldly for... nothing. "Hi, I'm a Democrat but don't worry I'll vote against you every chance I get and fully support the Republican agenda. And the party is A-OK with that! Vote for me so I can vote against you!" That's not a winning message.
You want someone to blame for the loss of the House, blame the traitor DINO's who killed the 50 State Plan. Don't blame me for later saying "gee, why are we keeping so many Republicans in our party?"
This isn't ideological purtiy, it's survival. They vote like Republicans so what difference does it make if they call themselves Democrats?
I seem to be missing some giant part of your thought process. Why do you think losing critical votes because some "Democrats" betrayed us and voted Republican is better than losing that critical vote because there were more open Republicans?
posted by sotonohito at 5:57 AM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
If we can get the job done, and that job is total and relentless obstruction and resistance to every single thing Trump wants, with nothing but threats I'm very happy.
My objective here is not ideological purity, but survival. We won't live through the next four years without unified Democratic obstruction. I've got friends and family who are in the crosshairs of the Trumpers and I do not want, when they've been murdered or sent off to the concentration camps, to say "well, I would have tried harder but then I might have endangered a DINO's reelection chances".
This isn't Reagan or even Junior, this is Fascism looming and we must win.
If we can win by keeping all the DINO's, I say we must keep the DINO's. If we can win by purging the DINO's, I say we must purge the DINO's. My objective is survival followed by victory.
I don't see how we can manage that without terrifying the wavering scum into voting the right way, and the threat of primary challengers is pretty much the only thing they fear. Appeals to their better natures are doomed to fail as they have none. Only fear will motivate a Manchin to vote properly, so we must make them fear or they'll be betray us.
T.D. Strange This would take far more message discipline than Democrats have ever had.
Agree completely. They need a lot more message discipline if we're going to survive these next four years, and that **STARTS** with getting the DINO's to stop betraying us on every single vote that matters.
Yes, they vote with us 80% of the time or whatever. Guess what? That 80% is for mindless unimportant bullshit that the Republicans also vote with us on, all the bills praising X, or resolving that Y is great, or establishing that the Chuck Wagon is our National Food Vehicle. No one gives a shit about that.
The question is: will they vote with us on the stuff that matters? Will they betray us and vote to end critical filibusters?
If no, then fine, keep them. They aren't hurting us.
If yes, then the fact that they have a "D" in front of their names doesn't actually benefit us in the slightest.
Serious question: what, exactly, is the difference between a "Democrat", like Manchin, who votes with the Republicans on all the essential votes, and an actual Republican? Why, exactly, is it superior to have a Democrat be the 60th vote against a filibuster rather than a Republican? What in particular makes it better for one of the votes for Trump's evil lineup of appointees to be a nominal Democrat instead of an open Republican?
I seem to be missing something critical here, because people like you keep telling me that it's better to have a guy who votes 100% with the Republicans on all the important things, but calls himself a Democrat, than it is to have an open and honest Republican. And I don't see how that's better at all.
We have them there for their votes, not for their party name, right? So if they vote Republican why should it matter if they lie and call themselves Democrats? To me that seems worse because then the Republicans can claim that those traitor scum made their evil bipartisan, and in America that word still holds a lot of sway (for reasons that totally baffle me, but that's a different argument).
A coalition party cannot act this way, especially when the "cost" you're throwing to the wind is quite literally the lives and freedom of many of the people you would need to commit to the sacrifice vote. "Primary Joe Manchin and lose your health insurance anyway, but you'll make me feel better about your suffering" isn't the quite winning message you think.
The R's are as much a coalition party as we are, and they manage it just fine.
More to the point though, I disagree with your premise, the people are going to lose **BECAUSE** the Manchins are going to vote to hurt them.
"Vote Democratic, we're so craven we keep the scumbags who voted to hurt you!" isn't really the winning message you seem to think it is.
Another serious question: at what point do you think giving up Manchin and his vile ilk is a good idea? Is it a vote percentage? How many times do they have to betray us and vote to support Trump's evil before you say "hmmm, perhaps spending millions to keep electing these people isn't a good idea?"
If Manchin voted with Trump 100% of the time would you still think keeping him around is a good idea? If so, why? To me having an honest enemy seems superior to having a false friend. At least then we can say "see, it would have been different if we had more Democrats", but with the Manchins we have to say "oh well, our guys voted for the stuff to fuck you sideways too, so I guess we're equally bad".
It seems to me that you're being too tribal, too strongly identifying with the mere label and forgetting the purpose of having a party is to win not just to say we had a lot of guys on our team.
As I said, and as the people who keep sneering "ideological purity" at me keep missing: I'm making my like of primaries conditional on their voting. If they vote for us but badmouth us, well, ok. That's not ideal but I'll tolerate it. If they vote against us, well, how is that different from having a Republican?
JackFlash Obamacare is about to be repealed. How's that "losing seats" strategy working out for you?
I'd ask you the same. No one votes Democratic because the Democrats stand boldly for... nothing. "Hi, I'm a Democrat but don't worry I'll vote against you every chance I get and fully support the Republican agenda. And the party is A-OK with that! Vote for me so I can vote against you!" That's not a winning message.
You want someone to blame for the loss of the House, blame the traitor DINO's who killed the 50 State Plan. Don't blame me for later saying "gee, why are we keeping so many Republicans in our party?"
This isn't ideological purtiy, it's survival. They vote like Republicans so what difference does it make if they call themselves Democrats?
I seem to be missing some giant part of your thought process. Why do you think losing critical votes because some "Democrats" betrayed us and voted Republican is better than losing that critical vote because there were more open Republicans?
posted by sotonohito at 5:57 AM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
As for Reagan, I'm too young to remember very well, but it seemed a lot less fearful. He was going to be bad, everyone knew that, but it didn't seem quite like such an existential threat.
Maybe because the Cold War and the existential threat it represented was so huge that Reagan seemed small in comparison?
Also, Reagan had a split Congress to work with, though the Democrats there were still dealing with the great Southern Flip Flop and watching their numbers dwindle and the Southern "Democrats" turn into honest Republicans (don't forget, Phil Gramm was a "Democrat" during the first years of Reagan before he realized the new home for racists was the Republicans and he switched parties). So while Reagan was bad, there were checks on his power.
I think also, Reagan didn't come into power explicitly on a white supremacist agenda and threatening Fascism. He kept his white supremacy more to dogwhistles.
I do think it feels a lot more fearful today, and justifiably so.
posted by sotonohito at 6:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe because the Cold War and the existential threat it represented was so huge that Reagan seemed small in comparison?
Also, Reagan had a split Congress to work with, though the Democrats there were still dealing with the great Southern Flip Flop and watching their numbers dwindle and the Southern "Democrats" turn into honest Republicans (don't forget, Phil Gramm was a "Democrat" during the first years of Reagan before he realized the new home for racists was the Republicans and he switched parties). So while Reagan was bad, there were checks on his power.
I think also, Reagan didn't come into power explicitly on a white supremacist agenda and threatening Fascism. He kept his white supremacy more to dogwhistles.
I do think it feels a lot more fearful today, and justifiably so.
posted by sotonohito at 6:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mark Hamill's reading of Trump's New Year's Eve tweet.
posted by octothorpe at 6:15 AM on January 8, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:15 AM on January 8, 2017 [58 favorites]
That Hamill tweet is so preposterously perfect - I hope he does more
posted by From Bklyn at 6:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 6:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't know about Reagan's inauguration but in 1983 or 4, after the whole family had watched The Day After, I went to go poop and my mom, who never did this sort of thing but I think she thought I was having some sort of breakdown in the bathroom, burst in and said "HONEY ARE YOU OKAY?"
I was 13/14, so of course I snotted at her that I was FINE could she GET OUT, and then she was silently pissed for a bit. I didn't get it all at the time, because closing the bathroom door was respected in the house, but now I do. She was all *we're all gonna die and my daughter is worried about me seeing her poop we're all fucked*
posted by angrycat at 6:44 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was 13/14, so of course I snotted at her that I was FINE could she GET OUT, and then she was silently pissed for a bit. I didn't get it all at the time, because closing the bathroom door was respected in the house, but now I do. She was all *we're all gonna die and my daughter is worried about me seeing her poop we're all fucked*
posted by angrycat at 6:44 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Then again, the US didn't learn from Brexit
What *are* the lessons of Brexit?
Unless there are agreed-upon "lessons" (scare quotes explained below), here's an Interbits Skimmer's Summary.
1) Don't believe polling.
polls showed the chance of a Brexit loss at over 85 – and in some cases 90 – percent. "In the case of Brexit, it was mainly a failure to capture unlikely voters and, in particular, older working-class voters who had not been responding to the polls,” Goodwin says. “So we saw around 2 to 2-and-a-half million extra voters that we didn't see at the previous general elections of the seven last polls during that campaign. Only one had Brexit ahead."
Don't believe polls is a weird "lesson" though, unless these lessons are more like passwords to a more complex game level. We can't really use that information exactly. Yeah, do better polls, I guess.
2) Bullshit works because the press won't fix it.
One of the most notorious misrepresentations was the claim by Leave campaigners, emblazoned across buses throughout the country, that “We send the E.U. £350 million every week. Let’s fund our NHS instead.” During a televised debate, Remain campaigner and Labour MP Angela Eagle called the slogan a “lie.”
. . . What is not disputed is that the number stuck in voters’ minds. A week before the referendum, polling firm Ipsos MORI found that 47 percent of the public believed the £350m claim was true.
Bullshit works because the press are shite at informing the electorate. Got it.
Better training in dealing with facts and figures—including polling data—seems essential. Most journalists come from a liberal arts background, which can leave them feeling ill-equipped to deal with competing truth claims in areas like science, economics, or polling.
Snap!
During the Brexit debate, one producer worried that campaigners were using stopwatches to check that both the Leave and Remain advocates received equal airtime. Another BBC journalist was concerned about a package on the science community’s attitude toward Brexit, as he could not find any prominent scientists in favor of leaving the E.U. But due to BBC guidelines, both sides had to be represented.
3) Showing people they're wrong and/or stupid doesn't help.
In the Brexit referendum, Outers were often branded as reckless advocates of a blind leap into the unknown.This was true – and counterproductive as a strategy for countering them. First, because calling them dangerous did not amount to an answer to the grievances driving substantial numbers of voters in the direction of the demagogues.
Second, telling a voter that something is a risk only works if that voter thinks they have a meaningful stake in society as it is and many clearly don’t.
Third, branding the insurgents as rogues burnished their appeal for many aggrieved with the status quo.
Again, not sure how useful this "lesson" is. Use force next time? I dunno. So, to recap: The Lessons of Brexit are:
1) Polling fails
2) Bullshit works because the press suck
3) Informing the electorate doesn't work because one can't fix stupid. ?
Okay not sure about that last one, but if anyone has a better list of lessons, please post them.
posted by petebest at 6:47 AM on January 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
What *are* the lessons of Brexit?
Unless there are agreed-upon "lessons" (scare quotes explained below), here's an Interbits Skimmer's Summary.
1) Don't believe polling.
polls showed the chance of a Brexit loss at over 85 – and in some cases 90 – percent. "In the case of Brexit, it was mainly a failure to capture unlikely voters and, in particular, older working-class voters who had not been responding to the polls,” Goodwin says. “So we saw around 2 to 2-and-a-half million extra voters that we didn't see at the previous general elections of the seven last polls during that campaign. Only one had Brexit ahead."
Don't believe polls is a weird "lesson" though, unless these lessons are more like passwords to a more complex game level. We can't really use that information exactly. Yeah, do better polls, I guess.
2) Bullshit works because the press won't fix it.
One of the most notorious misrepresentations was the claim by Leave campaigners, emblazoned across buses throughout the country, that “We send the E.U. £350 million every week. Let’s fund our NHS instead.” During a televised debate, Remain campaigner and Labour MP Angela Eagle called the slogan a “lie.”
. . . What is not disputed is that the number stuck in voters’ minds. A week before the referendum, polling firm Ipsos MORI found that 47 percent of the public believed the £350m claim was true.
Bullshit works because the press are shite at informing the electorate. Got it.
Better training in dealing with facts and figures—including polling data—seems essential. Most journalists come from a liberal arts background, which can leave them feeling ill-equipped to deal with competing truth claims in areas like science, economics, or polling.
Snap!
During the Brexit debate, one producer worried that campaigners were using stopwatches to check that both the Leave and Remain advocates received equal airtime. Another BBC journalist was concerned about a package on the science community’s attitude toward Brexit, as he could not find any prominent scientists in favor of leaving the E.U. But due to BBC guidelines, both sides had to be represented.
3) Showing people they're wrong and/or stupid doesn't help.
In the Brexit referendum, Outers were often branded as reckless advocates of a blind leap into the unknown.This was true – and counterproductive as a strategy for countering them. First, because calling them dangerous did not amount to an answer to the grievances driving substantial numbers of voters in the direction of the demagogues.
Second, telling a voter that something is a risk only works if that voter thinks they have a meaningful stake in society as it is and many clearly don’t.
Third, branding the insurgents as rogues burnished their appeal for many aggrieved with the status quo.
Again, not sure how useful this "lesson" is. Use force next time? I dunno. So, to recap: The Lessons of Brexit are:
1) Polling fails
2) Bullshit works because the press suck
3) Informing the electorate doesn't work because one can't fix stupid. ?
Okay not sure about that last one, but if anyone has a better list of lessons, please post them.
posted by petebest at 6:47 AM on January 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
Reagan at least had the veneer of competence.
What we didn't really appreciate is that Reagan was a competent, trained actor. And in his role as President he knew who he was working for. They were mostly evil selfish people but they weren't stupid and they didn't want to burn the world down.
W wasn't competent at anything, but he was in thrall to a group of people who like the Cylons had a Plan. It was an evil stupid plan and it did a lot of damage but like the people Reagan was working for their Plan wasn't to burn the world down, and so there were some parameters observed.
Trump doesn't listen to anybody and he has proven willing and even eager to burn things down when they're not working out for him.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:48 AM on January 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
What we didn't really appreciate is that Reagan was a competent, trained actor. And in his role as President he knew who he was working for. They were mostly evil selfish people but they weren't stupid and they didn't want to burn the world down.
W wasn't competent at anything, but he was in thrall to a group of people who like the Cylons had a Plan. It was an evil stupid plan and it did a lot of damage but like the people Reagan was working for their Plan wasn't to burn the world down, and so there were some parameters observed.
Trump doesn't listen to anybody and he has proven willing and even eager to burn things down when they're not working out for him.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:48 AM on January 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
What *are* the lessons of Brexit?
1) Don't believe polling.
polls showed the chance of a Brexit loss at over 85 – and in some cases 90 – percent.
Not sure where the link is getting the 85-90% number, but that seems off. The polls at the end were 45.8 Remain, 45.3 Leave, and 9% undecided. And as recently before the vote as 4 days, Leave was ahead. In fact, Leave polled better from June 6th - June 19th and then was just tenths of a percent behind with large undecideds the last few days.
@NateSilver538
Repeating myself, but the Brexit polls weren't bad. Showed a toss-up. Question is why so few people believed them. [chart]
posted by chris24 at 7:02 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
1) Don't believe polling.
polls showed the chance of a Brexit loss at over 85 – and in some cases 90 – percent.
Not sure where the link is getting the 85-90% number, but that seems off. The polls at the end were 45.8 Remain, 45.3 Leave, and 9% undecided. And as recently before the vote as 4 days, Leave was ahead. In fact, Leave polled better from June 6th - June 19th and then was just tenths of a percent behind with large undecideds the last few days.
@NateSilver538
Repeating myself, but the Brexit polls weren't bad. Showed a toss-up. Question is why so few people believed them. [chart]
posted by chris24 at 7:02 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm 32. We knew about climate change in 5th grade
I'm 42. We knew about climate change in 5th grade. The greenhouse effect and melting polar ice caps were topics in my school science book. We discussed it in class. This has been a Known Thing for a long time.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm 42. We knew about climate change in 5th grade. The greenhouse effect and melting polar ice caps were topics in my school science book. We discussed it in class. This has been a Known Thing for a long time.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm 42. We know about climate change before my parents were born.
What we know about the greenhouse effect hasn't substantively changed since G. S. Callendar published about it in 1938.
posted by ocschwar at 7:07 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
What we know about the greenhouse effect hasn't substantively changed since G. S. Callendar published about it in 1938.
posted by ocschwar at 7:07 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
The major Brexit-Trump axis of evil lesson I'm prepared to argue for is that both were the result of decades of focused propaganda never taken seriously enough until too late. With Brexit, it was the eurosceptic press lying continually about the EU and turning it into the perfect scapegoat for the harm that domestic policy did; in the US it was the relentless misrepresentation of Democratic policies and personalities by your own media, who kept the focus away from the obstructionalism which prevented advance. In both cases, the media found supporters in pockets of disaffected, low-information voters whom our respective electoral systems have anointed with outsize influence. Which made the left too nervous to go on the attack with sufficient confidence, and dragged the right of the establishment ever further wingnutwards.
The corollary to this is Scotland, which has very similar demographics to the parts of England filled with the disaffected but where a combination of a centrist party with a strong message and no fucks given in calling out extremism, and a list system for the parliament, has taken much the same ingredients and become a place where liberal values are actually held as a source of pride by most of the population. It's not that simple, of course, because nationalism is also part of the mix - crucially, a non-toxic and non-fundamentalist nationalism - one that people actually think about, and think about the consequences thereof, and one that blunts the force of the relentlessly Anglo-centric media. Nonetheless it is possible to hold the fort and even advance the cause in the face of all the factors that other countries see as some unstoppable act of nature.
Which doesn't help undo what's happened in the US or Brexit (although the Brexit cards are yet to play), but does show how things might work in the future, if you start now.
And if not now, then when?
posted by Devonian at 7:12 AM on January 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
The corollary to this is Scotland, which has very similar demographics to the parts of England filled with the disaffected but where a combination of a centrist party with a strong message and no fucks given in calling out extremism, and a list system for the parliament, has taken much the same ingredients and become a place where liberal values are actually held as a source of pride by most of the population. It's not that simple, of course, because nationalism is also part of the mix - crucially, a non-toxic and non-fundamentalist nationalism - one that people actually think about, and think about the consequences thereof, and one that blunts the force of the relentlessly Anglo-centric media. Nonetheless it is possible to hold the fort and even advance the cause in the face of all the factors that other countries see as some unstoppable act of nature.
Which doesn't help undo what's happened in the US or Brexit (although the Brexit cards are yet to play), but does show how things might work in the future, if you start now.
And if not now, then when?
posted by Devonian at 7:12 AM on January 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Five reasons the Intel community believes Russia interfered in the election
1) Attacks came from Russia servers
2) Attacks 'dovetail' with other Russia attacks
3) It was a huge operation
4) Used Russian infrastructure
5) Putin has motive
posted by petebest at 7:12 AM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
1) Attacks came from Russia servers
2) Attacks 'dovetail' with other Russia attacks
3) It was a huge operation
4) Used Russian infrastructure
5) Putin has motive
posted by petebest at 7:12 AM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump doesn't listen to anybody
This certainly seems to be how he acts, but maybe there's a power behind the throne that we're not seeing? A Cheney or Rove to his Bush? I keep mentally circling around this question.
Jared Kushner? Roger Ailes? Roger Stone certainly seems to have had Trump's ear throughout the campaign, but I'm not sure he's smart enough to be the Cheney. (Maybe it would explain a lot if Trump's puppet master was also an idiot, though.) Unfortunately "Vladimir Putin" seems like the most plausible answer. Putin doesn't exactly want to burn the world either, I think -- just to loot it.
This is probably true of most of the other plausible candidates for "Trump puppeteer" as well. They are mostly kleptocrats who are more interested in funneling resources to themselves and their cronies than with any kind of policy agenda one way or another. But maybe kleptocrats want to keep the government-goose alive so that it can keep laying golden eggs for them?
That's the best case scenario, I guess. Worst case is that Trump is not a puppet at all, just (like Nixon, apparently) an unhinged free agent, who thinks he's a lot smarter than he is. I can't decide if that is more likely than the "puppet" thing or not.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
This certainly seems to be how he acts, but maybe there's a power behind the throne that we're not seeing? A Cheney or Rove to his Bush? I keep mentally circling around this question.
Jared Kushner? Roger Ailes? Roger Stone certainly seems to have had Trump's ear throughout the campaign, but I'm not sure he's smart enough to be the Cheney. (Maybe it would explain a lot if Trump's puppet master was also an idiot, though.) Unfortunately "Vladimir Putin" seems like the most plausible answer. Putin doesn't exactly want to burn the world either, I think -- just to loot it.
This is probably true of most of the other plausible candidates for "Trump puppeteer" as well. They are mostly kleptocrats who are more interested in funneling resources to themselves and their cronies than with any kind of policy agenda one way or another. But maybe kleptocrats want to keep the government-goose alive so that it can keep laying golden eggs for them?
That's the best case scenario, I guess. Worst case is that Trump is not a puppet at all, just (like Nixon, apparently) an unhinged free agent, who thinks he's a lot smarter than he is. I can't decide if that is more likely than the "puppet" thing or not.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Don't forget Bannon. He's my best bet for neo-Cheney.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:19 AM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:19 AM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Five reasons the Intel community believes Russia interfered in the election
Which boils down to one reason: evidence.
The politicians and people have, unfortunately, abandoned evidence as a reason, and reason in general. So this may not be as helpful as it would seem. However, evidential reasoning is still in place in the judiciary, so I suggest this is where some effort be expended in applying pressure. It's worked in the past. (Yes, politicisation of the judiciary - but that's a much slower process, and much may yet be done.)
posted by Devonian at 7:21 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm 52. When I was eight years old climate change wasn't really on the popular radar, but something else was. It was 1972. Vietnam.
Every day on the news I saw young men, who had been just like me not all that long ago, coming home in body bags. And I lived in terror. I was terrified that when I turned 18 my birthday would pop out of that stupid lottery and I would be sent about as far as you can get from everything familiar and safe without becoming an astronaut, and I would be told to murder people who would just as enthusiastically be trying to murder me. And being a nerdy not very physical kid I was pretty sure I wouldn't be winning the murder game.
You do not have to deliberately terrify your eight year old. Eight year olds are quite capable of terrifying themselves. They have no distractions and they take in everything. They may not show the body bags coming back from the Middle East like they did when they were coming from southeast Asia, but they sure do show the weather porn when some place takes it on the chin because [insert weather phenomenon] has gotten fucked up.
It may not be helpful for eight year olds to be terrified, but that doesn't mean they aren't. And as I said upthread, if I was eight years old today I'd be pretty pissed off about things.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:24 AM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Every day on the news I saw young men, who had been just like me not all that long ago, coming home in body bags. And I lived in terror. I was terrified that when I turned 18 my birthday would pop out of that stupid lottery and I would be sent about as far as you can get from everything familiar and safe without becoming an astronaut, and I would be told to murder people who would just as enthusiastically be trying to murder me. And being a nerdy not very physical kid I was pretty sure I wouldn't be winning the murder game.
You do not have to deliberately terrify your eight year old. Eight year olds are quite capable of terrifying themselves. They have no distractions and they take in everything. They may not show the body bags coming back from the Middle East like they did when they were coming from southeast Asia, but they sure do show the weather porn when some place takes it on the chin because [insert weather phenomenon] has gotten fucked up.
It may not be helpful for eight year olds to be terrified, but that doesn't mean they aren't. And as I said upthread, if I was eight years old today I'd be pretty pissed off about things.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:24 AM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
I still hang on to some hope that the Republican party will not stand by and let Trump get away with too much shit, surely there are still good people with consciences? What are the chances that the party can reign him in? Or drop him and just vote against him? Can it happen? Surely they aren't really going along with him?
I still think this is true, but I think that Republicans and Democrats, and even individual Republicans, strongly disagree on what exactly "too much shit" is. And I think - it's actually a really hard thing, harder than it appears, to figure out where precisely the line you hold is. That's one of the reasons I think it's important that everyone figure that out now - what the line between mild resistance and strong resistance and all-out-no-holds-barred resistance.
And if you figure it out wrong, by the time you resist, it's too late. It's another reason why I'm worried about tactics that focus on trying to convince people to resist 'everything'. It's easy to resist calls against 'everything'. Because Trump right now appears like a buffoon, and the siren call of 'come on, this vote doesn't really matter' looms large. And when you position the choices as between "resist everything" and "?" people are usually going to choose the latter option. It's really hard to throw your career, political connections, etc, away. Trust me.
However, while I think that some mitigation will happen, I don't think that Trump would be impeached unless he became massively more unpopular than he already is. Republicans don't want to be primaried, some for cowardly reasons, some for good reasons. In a time like this, every moderate Republican owes it to the country to hold on so they can be a moderating force. However, a lot of people just like being Congressmen and Senators, that's also real. I don't know which holds sway over any particular legislator at any particular time. It's probably a mixture of both. And right now, if the Republicans impeached Trump, they would be dealing with a massive revolt of various forms. No one wants to risk that if it's not necessary. And thus far, it's hard to say if it's necessary or not for a lot of people.
posted by corb at 7:27 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I still think this is true, but I think that Republicans and Democrats, and even individual Republicans, strongly disagree on what exactly "too much shit" is. And I think - it's actually a really hard thing, harder than it appears, to figure out where precisely the line you hold is. That's one of the reasons I think it's important that everyone figure that out now - what the line between mild resistance and strong resistance and all-out-no-holds-barred resistance.
And if you figure it out wrong, by the time you resist, it's too late. It's another reason why I'm worried about tactics that focus on trying to convince people to resist 'everything'. It's easy to resist calls against 'everything'. Because Trump right now appears like a buffoon, and the siren call of 'come on, this vote doesn't really matter' looms large. And when you position the choices as between "resist everything" and "?" people are usually going to choose the latter option. It's really hard to throw your career, political connections, etc, away. Trust me.
However, while I think that some mitigation will happen, I don't think that Trump would be impeached unless he became massively more unpopular than he already is. Republicans don't want to be primaried, some for cowardly reasons, some for good reasons. In a time like this, every moderate Republican owes it to the country to hold on so they can be a moderating force. However, a lot of people just like being Congressmen and Senators, that's also real. I don't know which holds sway over any particular legislator at any particular time. It's probably a mixture of both. And right now, if the Republicans impeached Trump, they would be dealing with a massive revolt of various forms. No one wants to risk that if it's not necessary. And thus far, it's hard to say if it's necessary or not for a lot of people.
posted by corb at 7:27 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Still, y'know, you can't stop the public believing what they want to believe. If those who were opposed to Trump didn't care enough to bother voting, if voter suppression kept many of those who would've voted against Trump from voting and the nation as a whole is content with this (clearly it went well since the UK is about to require photo id at polling stations too) and people are generally unworried about Putin becoming their de facto ruler and/or Trump causing massive destruction one way or another... why not conclude that this is the way it is?
Stupidity, misinformation and general incapacity for critical thinking aren't new. People believe what they want to believe, always ave. If the active majority are fascists who will cut off their nose to spite their face, then, I guess they've got the world they wanted and protesting otherwise is like telling waves not to crash against the shore.
posted by tel3path at 7:28 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Stupidity, misinformation and general incapacity for critical thinking aren't new. People believe what they want to believe, always ave. If the active majority are fascists who will cut off their nose to spite their face, then, I guess they've got the world they wanted and protesting otherwise is like telling waves not to crash against the shore.
posted by tel3path at 7:28 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Worst case is that Trump is not a puppet at all, just (like Nixon, apparently) an unhinged free agent, who thinks he's a lot smarter than he is.
And I think this is exactly the case. W looked up to Cheney because W knew he was not the sharpest tack on the bulletin board himself. Reagan knew he was an actor doing a job, from the day he first ran for political office. Trump really thinks he is the smartest person in the room no matter who else is in the room. He has made that abundantly clear, and the difficulty his handlers had controlling his outbursts during the election makes it kind of obvious.
There are would-be influencers, but they aren't puppeteers and their influence isn't continuous or reliable; it does seem to be the case that whoever has had Trump's ear most recently has some pull, no matter who that is. So I expect the would-be puppeteers to spend a lot of energy on access control. Problem is, Trump seems to resist all efforts to really control him, and probably will not allow himself to be sealed off from his favored pastimes, including Twitter. So it's kind of a crap shoot what will be influencing him, other than his own outsized ego.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:29 AM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
And I think this is exactly the case. W looked up to Cheney because W knew he was not the sharpest tack on the bulletin board himself. Reagan knew he was an actor doing a job, from the day he first ran for political office. Trump really thinks he is the smartest person in the room no matter who else is in the room. He has made that abundantly clear, and the difficulty his handlers had controlling his outbursts during the election makes it kind of obvious.
There are would-be influencers, but they aren't puppeteers and their influence isn't continuous or reliable; it does seem to be the case that whoever has had Trump's ear most recently has some pull, no matter who that is. So I expect the would-be puppeteers to spend a lot of energy on access control. Problem is, Trump seems to resist all efforts to really control him, and probably will not allow himself to be sealed off from his favored pastimes, including Twitter. So it's kind of a crap shoot what will be influencing him, other than his own outsized ego.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:29 AM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
The R's are as much a coalition party as we are, and they manage it just fine.
They're really not. They're an alliance of sub-cults (dominionist religion, free market, big dick foreign policy, kick the poor, white supremacy) organized under one overarching cult principal, tax cuts fix everything, always. They're much more committed to their cult beliefs than Democrats have ever been to anything. They have cult media enforcing dicipline and driving turnout nationwide. If you want the Democrats to engage in the same purity tactics, a) its not going to work and b) its on you to show how the numbers are there for it to work.
You want someone to blame for the loss of the House, blame the traitor DINO's who killed the 50 State Plan. Don't blame me for later saying "gee, why are we keeping so many Republicans in our party?"
This isn't ideological purtiy, it's survival. They vote like Republicans so what difference does it make if they call themselves Democrats?
I seem to be missing some giant part of your thought process.
Lieberman voted for Dodd Frank. So did Blanche Lincoln. Manchin voted for against the Obamacare repeal package already and probably won't help with a bogus "replacement". Some votes for Democratic legislation is better than the replacement, which, again, will be another Tom Cotton or Ted Cruz. This really, really, isn't as difficult as you're insisting on making it. There's more to the Democratic coalition than "Bernie Sanders" and "traitors".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:29 AM on January 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
They're really not. They're an alliance of sub-cults (dominionist religion, free market, big dick foreign policy, kick the poor, white supremacy) organized under one overarching cult principal, tax cuts fix everything, always. They're much more committed to their cult beliefs than Democrats have ever been to anything. They have cult media enforcing dicipline and driving turnout nationwide. If you want the Democrats to engage in the same purity tactics, a) its not going to work and b) its on you to show how the numbers are there for it to work.
You want someone to blame for the loss of the House, blame the traitor DINO's who killed the 50 State Plan. Don't blame me for later saying "gee, why are we keeping so many Republicans in our party?"
This isn't ideological purtiy, it's survival. They vote like Republicans so what difference does it make if they call themselves Democrats?
I seem to be missing some giant part of your thought process.
Lieberman voted for Dodd Frank. So did Blanche Lincoln. Manchin voted for against the Obamacare repeal package already and probably won't help with a bogus "replacement". Some votes for Democratic legislation is better than the replacement, which, again, will be another Tom Cotton or Ted Cruz. This really, really, isn't as difficult as you're insisting on making it. There's more to the Democratic coalition than "Bernie Sanders" and "traitors".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:29 AM on January 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Don't forget Bannon. He's my best bet for neo-Cheney.
Speaking of the éminence grasse, what's he been up to lately? I can't remember the last time he was in the news.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Speaking of the éminence grasse, what's he been up to lately? I can't remember the last time he was in the news.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republican leaders don't actually believe that tax cuts fix things. They just want tax cuts and don't care if things get fixed.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
If it's Bannon, that's really bad. Because Bannon says his goal is to "destroy the state".
Ideologues are probably more dangerous than kleptocrats...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:34 AM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ideologues are probably more dangerous than kleptocrats...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:34 AM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Speaking of the éminence grasse, what's he been up to lately?
Spreading Russian propaganda against Angela Merkel. Our biggest NATO ally.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Spreading Russian propaganda against Angela Merkel. Our biggest NATO ally.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
what's he been up to lately? I can't remember the last time he was in the news.
Exactly: that's the way he wants it. He's esconced himself in one of Trump's deeper folds and is merging their bloodstreams as we speak. You're going to be hearing and seeing as little of Bannon as possible while he destroys the country.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:35 AM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Exactly: that's the way he wants it. He's esconced himself in one of Trump's deeper folds and is merging their bloodstreams as we speak. You're going to be hearing and seeing as little of Bannon as possible while he destroys the country.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:35 AM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
> Why the white working class votes against itself
That article takes far too many words to say "Because if you can't punch the rich people who fucked you, you can at least punch down at poor people like the rich people do to you".
Of course, this is no new information for those who have been paying attention:
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 AM on January 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
That article takes far too many words to say "Because if you can't punch the rich people who fucked you, you can at least punch down at poor people like the rich people do to you".
Of course, this is no new information for those who have been paying attention:
...the theory of race was supplemented by a carefully planned and slowly evolved method, which drove such a wedge between the white and black workers that there probably are not today in the world two groups of workers with practically identical interests who hate and fear each other so deeply and persistently and who are kept so far apart that neither sees anything of common interest.(W.E.B. Du Bois, Black Reconstruction in America, 1860-1880, first published 1935.)
It must be remembered that the white group of laborers, while they received a low wage, were compensated in part by a sort of public and psychological wage. They were given public deference and titles of courtesy because they were white. They were admitted freely with all classes of white people to public functions, public parks, and the best schools. The police were drawn from their ranks, and the courts, dependent upon their votes, treated them with such leniency as to encourage lawlessness....
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 AM on January 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
I would send out for assistance but there's someone on the signal wire
And the corporation logo is flashing on and off in the sky
They're putting all your names in the forbidden book
I know what they're doing but I don't want to look
You think they're so dumb, you think they're so funny
Wait until they've got you running to the night rally
posted by davebush at 7:40 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
And the corporation logo is flashing on and off in the sky
They're putting all your names in the forbidden book
I know what they're doing but I don't want to look
You think they're so dumb, you think they're so funny
Wait until they've got you running to the night rally
posted by davebush at 7:40 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I'd probably take all of Trump's shitty noms just to get rid of Bannon. He's smart and evil. And he knows how to work Trump. Get rid of him and Trump is still unhinged and dangerous, but less focused and capable.
I'll take incompetent kleptocrats over driven Nazis.
posted by chris24 at 7:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'll take incompetent kleptocrats over driven Nazis.
posted by chris24 at 7:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'll take incompetent kleptocrats over driven Nazis.
To risk the use of D&D Alignment terminology, the appointees so far are largely neutral evil or chaotic evil, with low intelligence. Bannon's lawful evil and high intelligence. Everybody else might fuck things up in awful and spectacular ways, but Bannon's the one who has the greatest shot of getting exactly what he wants.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:52 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
To risk the use of D&D Alignment terminology, the appointees so far are largely neutral evil or chaotic evil, with low intelligence. Bannon's lawful evil and high intelligence. Everybody else might fuck things up in awful and spectacular ways, but Bannon's the one who has the greatest shot of getting exactly what he wants.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:52 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think it's that simple. For instance, I think pretty much anybody would have offered up Sessions, given that even moderate Republicans believe the voter fraud myth and the Lost Cause "history" of the Confederacy.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:56 AM on January 8, 2017
posted by zombieflanders at 7:56 AM on January 8, 2017
Sessions was a backbencher and crank as recently as a year ago. He had minimal influence in the GOP conference, and was pretty much written off as The Racist Alabama Granddad even in his own party. There's a reason he was the only Senator to endorse Trump in the primary.
I highly doubt Jeb or Romney would've put him anywhere important. But that's Earth B at this point.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 AM on January 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
I highly doubt Jeb or Romney would've put him anywhere important. But that's Earth B at this point.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 AM on January 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
even moderate Republicans believe the voter fraud myth and the Lost Cause "history" of the Confederacy.
Regarding the prevalence of Lost-Cause-ism among "moderate" Republicans, I have to push back a little. Among Republicans in general, the most horrifying evidence of this that I've seen in polling was 38% of South Carolinians who voted for Trump in the primaries saying that the south should have won. Now again, that's horrifying, but that's not national election GOP Trump voters, it's primary voters in South Carolina who voted for him. While I would say that Lost Cause rhetoric is very common among Tea Partiers/Trumpists, and probably the norm among them in some areas, I don't see the evidence for it being the norm among all GOP voters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:09 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Regarding the prevalence of Lost-Cause-ism among "moderate" Republicans, I have to push back a little. Among Republicans in general, the most horrifying evidence of this that I've seen in polling was 38% of South Carolinians who voted for Trump in the primaries saying that the south should have won. Now again, that's horrifying, but that's not national election GOP Trump voters, it's primary voters in South Carolina who voted for him. While I would say that Lost Cause rhetoric is very common among Tea Partiers/Trumpists, and probably the norm among them in some areas, I don't see the evidence for it being the norm among all GOP voters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:09 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Lost-Cause-ism isn't just about thinking the Confederacy should have won. It includes denial that slavery was the main cause of the war, and that it was a "states' rights" issue anyway, and that the South had an inherently better and more "honorable" moral character.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on January 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on January 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, and I agree that there are degrees of lost cause theology. But if you believe in it enough doesn't it all just boil down to "the south should have won?"
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:18 AM on January 8, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:18 AM on January 8, 2017
Putin is the puppeteer and it is so obvious it is hard to believe.
The thing is, issues that are irrelevant to Russian interests, Trump can manage on his own. It gives him and sense of power, and hey, it's irrelevant. So there we see lunatic behavior.
posted by mumimor at 8:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The thing is, issues that are irrelevant to Russian interests, Trump can manage on his own. It gives him and sense of power, and hey, it's irrelevant. So there we see lunatic behavior.
posted by mumimor at 8:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I still think this is true, but I think that Republicans and Democrats, and even individual Republicans, strongly disagree on what exactly "too much shit" is. And I think - it's actually a really hard thing, harder than it appears, to figure out where precisely the line you hold is. That's one of the reasons I think it's important that everyone figure that out now - what the line between mild resistance and strong resistance and all-out-no-holds-barred resistance.
Is there anyone out there trying to draw this line? Trying to point out which specific things are attacks on American democracy, on the constitution, etc.? Things like not putting nominees through ethics review, violating the emoluments clause, bringing your business-running children to international and domestic meetings, violating international rules against torture, etc. The kind of stuff that anyone should be able to say, Republican or Democrat, "If you don't stand up against this you are violating your oath to uphold and defend the constitution."
I know that, for instance, Evan McMullin is tweeting a lot about this but having a simple site/message with a lot of voices behind it might break through the noise to reach some of these Republicans.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Is there anyone out there trying to draw this line? Trying to point out which specific things are attacks on American democracy, on the constitution, etc.? Things like not putting nominees through ethics review, violating the emoluments clause, bringing your business-running children to international and domestic meetings, violating international rules against torture, etc. The kind of stuff that anyone should be able to say, Republican or Democrat, "If you don't stand up against this you are violating your oath to uphold and defend the constitution."
I know that, for instance, Evan McMullin is tweeting a lot about this but having a simple site/message with a lot of voices behind it might break through the noise to reach some of these Republicans.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
For Trump, his online dominance is a source of pride. He boasts to friends, aides and journalists alike about the quality of his writing — pointed, pungent and memorable — and claims that people call him “the Ernest Hemingway of Twitter.”
My emphasis. Lol.
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
My emphasis. Lol.
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Has anyone an idea whether DT can read, and how well? Could it be that he literally can't take in intelligence reports or other written matter of moderate complexity? His avoidance of emails, his illiteracy and incompetence in tweeting, suggest to me that he might well be functionally illiterate. Perhaps the green ink letters represent his intellectual peak, and that's a while ago.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:24 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 8:24 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Old Man and the (na)Zis
posted by chris24 at 8:26 AM on January 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:26 AM on January 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
It seems a lot more plausible that he's just an incurious fucko than that he literally cannot read. Not least because Trump's never shown much capability to be coy about his points of defensiveness.
posted by cortex at 8:28 AM on January 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by cortex at 8:28 AM on January 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
the most horrifying evidence of this that I've seen in polling was 38% of South Carolinians who voted for Trump in the primaries saying that the south should have won
BTW, the PPP poll that your link sourced from is interesting once you take into account the "not sures" from all SC GOP primary voters on questions that really should be cut-and-dry. For instance, once you add in "not sure" to the question of who should have won the Civil War, it shoots up to 64%, and keeping the Stars and Bars flying over the Capitol gets 68%. And they're also "unsure" about basic 1st and 14th Amendment rights: preventing Muslims from entering the US gets a whopping 77% (including 60% who support it), support for a Muslim database also gets 64%, shutting down mosques gets 54%, and outlawing Islam outright gets 47%.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:30 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
BTW, the PPP poll that your link sourced from is interesting once you take into account the "not sures" from all SC GOP primary voters on questions that really should be cut-and-dry. For instance, once you add in "not sure" to the question of who should have won the Civil War, it shoots up to 64%, and keeping the Stars and Bars flying over the Capitol gets 68%. And they're also "unsure" about basic 1st and 14th Amendment rights: preventing Muslims from entering the US gets a whopping 77% (including 60% who support it), support for a Muslim database also gets 64%, shutting down mosques gets 54%, and outlawing Islam outright gets 47%.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:30 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
if he couldn't read he'd never shut the fuck up about how he is the best reader and how lots of great, great people are telling him how he can make the letters say the words.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:30 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:30 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Hemingway?. How long has it been since anyone called anyone the Hemingway of anything?
I bet if you ask him who the current President of the USA is, he'd say 'Carter'.
posted by Devonian at 8:30 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I bet if you ask him who the current President of the USA is, he'd say 'Carter'.
posted by Devonian at 8:30 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
For instance, once you add in "not sure" to the question of who should have won the Civil War, it shoots up to 64%, and keeping the Stars and Bars flying over the Capitol gets 54%
Oh for sure the SC GOP primary vote in general looks really monstrous. However it's still the South Carolina GOP primary vote, so if you want the absolute worst case scenario for awful american politics that's the place to go.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:31 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh for sure the SC GOP primary vote in general looks really monstrous. However it's still the South Carolina GOP primary vote, so if you want the absolute worst case scenario for awful american politics that's the place to go.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:31 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Martin Luther King Day With Trump: Next year, Donald Trump will preside over a holiday dedicated to a man whose principles he scarcely seems to comprehend. In a speech that King delivered in 1967, in Atlanta, he condemned the Vietnam War and warned against what he called “the triple evils of racism, economic exploitation, and militarism.” All three figured prominently in Trump’s Presidential campaign. Moreover, in 1973 the Department of Justice sued Trump Management, of which Trump was the president, for refusing to rent apartments to African-Americans. Specifically, the government charged that the company had violated the Fair Housing Act—a landmark piece of legislation passed in 1968, partly in tribute to King’s desegregation work. Now Trump, instead of calming the racial fires that he stoked during the campaign, has opted for private meetings with B-listers of black life: Don King, Ray Lewis, Jim Brown—a coalition of the compromised.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has anyone an idea whether DT can read, and how well?
He does seem to be a heavy user of voicemail.
And I think there was a link toward the end of the last thread that said he dictates a lot of his tweets to the "girls" in his office. (My internet is flaky right now, and it's hard to search that massive thread about Trump for "girls" and "tweets". I'll re-post it when I find it.)
And of course, the ghostwriters for his books have claimed he did almost none of the writing. And he seems to get most of his news from cable. And he said that even though he had a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed, he never read it.
And he had quite a bit of trouble with teleprompters.
I am sure he learned to read and was once capable of doing do relatively proficiently, but I really think he has some attention issues now that make it hard for him to read or write anything longer than a tweet.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:40 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
He does seem to be a heavy user of voicemail.
And I think there was a link toward the end of the last thread that said he dictates a lot of his tweets to the "girls" in his office. (My internet is flaky right now, and it's hard to search that massive thread about Trump for "girls" and "tweets". I'll re-post it when I find it.)
And of course, the ghostwriters for his books have claimed he did almost none of the writing. And he seems to get most of his news from cable. And he said that even though he had a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed, he never read it.
And he had quite a bit of trouble with teleprompters.
I am sure he learned to read and was once capable of doing do relatively proficiently, but I really think he has some attention issues now that make it hard for him to read or write anything longer than a tweet.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:40 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I assume we're not going to get a SOTU for four years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:43 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:43 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
toward the end of the last thread that said he dictates a lot of his tweets to the "girls" in his office.
Oh, it's in this thread:
Oh, it's in this thread:
Trump did tell CNN's Anderson Cooper that he "writes" his own tweets.posted by OnceUponATime at 8:43 AM on January 8, 2017
"During the day, I'm in the office, I just shout it out to one of the young ladies who are tremendous," he told Cooper. "I have tremendous office staff. And Meredith and some of the people that work for me. And I'll just shout it out, and they'll do it. But during the evenings, after 7 o'clock or so, I will always do it by myself."
It'll just be an hour long transmission of dumpsterfire.gif on loop.
posted by Devonian at 8:44 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 8:44 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
WaPo: Gun silencers are hard to buy. Donald Trump Jr. and silencer makers want to change that.
Because difficulty in purchasing silencers is one of the most pressing firearms issues ◔_◔. The whole meretricious Trump clan is intent on maximizing harm.
Gun owners such as Trump Jr. can’t understand why people like Rand don’t get it. In the video, after he’s shown shooting several guns with silencers, Trump Jr. says they can help with getting "little kids into the game."
THEY'RE GREAT FOR KIDS!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Because difficulty in purchasing silencers is one of the most pressing firearms issues ◔_◔. The whole meretricious Trump clan is intent on maximizing harm.
Gun owners such as Trump Jr. can’t understand why people like Rand don’t get it. In the video, after he’s shown shooting several guns with silencers, Trump Jr. says they can help with getting "little kids into the game."
THEY'RE GREAT FOR KIDS!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
cell divide: "If you're greedy, ambitions, and immoral and want to make lots of money, it's time to move to the Washington D.C. area, assuming you're not already there. The looting is going to start on day one."
Can we please not with this? I'm tired of having my home labeled as a swamp and cesspool, when it is nothing of the sort. I've never lived in another place that has so many talented people who are earnestly trying to make the world a better place (often at a significant personal opportunity cost). The lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, and their lackeys only make up a tiiiny portion of our population – the "real" DC is full of civil servants, NGOs, human-rights advocates, and scientists.
Though far from perfect, The District itself also arguably leads the nation in civil rights, LGBT issues, and has historically given a damn about addressing homelessness. Even our corruption tends to funnel money into the pockets of the district's least-fortunate. * I'm not defending that last part, but it's a somewhat unique footnote in the context of American politics...
While considerably less liberal than the District itself, our suburbs are considerably more liberal (and secular!) than any other major US metropolitan area that I know about. Even Loudoun County is reliably Democratic these days. The DC metropolitan area is considerably more progressive and liberal than whatever the hell it is that California pats itself on the back for.
So.... yeah. PLEASE STOP playing into Trump's hand by denigrating my home and my neighbors.
posted by schmod at 8:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [52 favorites]
Can we please not with this? I'm tired of having my home labeled as a swamp and cesspool, when it is nothing of the sort. I've never lived in another place that has so many talented people who are earnestly trying to make the world a better place (often at a significant personal opportunity cost). The lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, and their lackeys only make up a tiiiny portion of our population – the "real" DC is full of civil servants, NGOs, human-rights advocates, and scientists.
Though far from perfect, The District itself also arguably leads the nation in civil rights, LGBT issues, and has historically given a damn about addressing homelessness. Even our corruption tends to funnel money into the pockets of the district's least-fortunate. * I'm not defending that last part, but it's a somewhat unique footnote in the context of American politics...
While considerably less liberal than the District itself, our suburbs are considerably more liberal (and secular!) than any other major US metropolitan area that I know about. Even Loudoun County is reliably Democratic these days. The DC metropolitan area is considerably more progressive and liberal than whatever the hell it is that California pats itself on the back for.
So.... yeah. PLEASE STOP playing into Trump's hand by denigrating my home and my neighbors.
posted by schmod at 8:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [52 favorites]
Jeff Sessions should have been a tough sell in the Senate, but he’s too nice
Come for the what-the-fuckery of the headline, stay for the explode-your-head-like-in-Scanners of a NeverTrumper introducing him for nomination and a Democrat (Coons-DE) saying he might vote for him.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:49 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Come for the what-the-fuckery of the headline, stay for the explode-your-head-like-in-Scanners of a NeverTrumper introducing him for nomination and a Democrat (Coons-DE) saying he might vote for him.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:49 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
chris24: “For Trump, his online dominance is a source of pride.”I reported him for hate speech and blocked him. Useless, but felt good.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:51 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Even Loudoun County is reliably Democratic these days.
RepreSENT! We even managed to kick born-again asshole Eugene Delgaudio off the Board of Supervisors.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:52 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
RepreSENT! We even managed to kick born-again asshole Eugene Delgaudio off the Board of Supervisors.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:52 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Samantha Bee on 31 October 2016... "People are saying Trump can't read!!!???".
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:53 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:53 AM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
the "real" DC is full of civil servants, NGOs, human-rights advocates, and scientists.
And these are the people Trump is talking about when he says "drain the swamp". Not the lobbiests and billionaires he's stacking his cabinet with. He's coming after competent and dedicated public servants because "liberal reality" doesn't sell on FOX News.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 AM on January 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
And these are the people Trump is talking about when he says "drain the swamp". Not the lobbiests and billionaires he's stacking his cabinet with. He's coming after competent and dedicated public servants because "liberal reality" doesn't sell on FOX News.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 AM on January 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
Samantha Bee on 31 October 2016... "People are saying the rich asshole can't read!!!???".
Neither this Bee hilarity nor I think he's completely illiterate, but considering all of his issues with reading anything (admits he has not read a book in his adult life (!), well-documented proof he struggles with teleprompters, reading documents in deposition, etc.), functionally illiterate or 2nd-grade level reading skills almost assuredly not hyperbole.
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Neither this Bee hilarity nor I think he's completely illiterate, but considering all of his issues with reading anything (admits he has not read a book in his adult life (!), well-documented proof he struggles with teleprompters, reading documents in deposition, etc.), functionally illiterate or 2nd-grade level reading skills almost assuredly not hyperbole.
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
And these are the people Trump is talking about when he says "drain the swamp".
There's been a lot of gentrification going on in DC and I've been worried about what that's going to do to the character of the area as current residents keep getting pushed out into the surrounding metro area.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's been a lot of gentrification going on in DC and I've been worried about what that's going to do to the character of the area as current residents keep getting pushed out into the surrounding metro area.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:04 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
If we assume that reading is not something he does well, or with facility, then his decisions arise from spoken interactions and the TV. The voice influences and cajoles in ways foreign to those of us who read. And his whisperers are uniformly appalling.
posted by stonepharisee at 9:07 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 9:07 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Because difficulty in purchasing silencers is one of the most pressing firearms issues ◔_◔. The whole meretricious Trump clan is intent on maximizing harm.
So actually, the silencer issue is really interesting, so much so that if Trump is focusing on silencers, I think he has to be being led by someone more competent. Silencers in particular are kind of this funny thing where the place they hold in public consciousness and the place they hold for gun owners are so radically different, that it's like a freebie for the things Trump likes doing, with little cost.
So gun owners exist along a spectrum, right? There's hardliners on one end, and Democrats who like shooting sometimes on the other end. We've seen through polls that there exist a lot of gun control measures that some gun owners support. But the silencer issue is not really one of them - they haven't been used in any high profile crimes or shootings (they are really, really hard to get, I can attest), none of the major gun control groups have been pushing for more regulations because they're already pretty stringent.
So in that issue we combine:
1) A way for gun owners leery of Trump to get behind him, one of the more 'easy' things people have been asking for for a while
2) No serious legislative opposition, because silencers just haven't had the time or focus to be a big thing
3) Outrage among pro-gun control people for whom it sounds really extreme (The critical 'liberal tears' component without which Trump can't get out of bed in the morning)
Honestly this strikes me as a huge wedge attempt, where he's trying to pick off more 'Blue Dog' Democrat voters.
posted by corb at 9:16 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
So actually, the silencer issue is really interesting, so much so that if Trump is focusing on silencers, I think he has to be being led by someone more competent. Silencers in particular are kind of this funny thing where the place they hold in public consciousness and the place they hold for gun owners are so radically different, that it's like a freebie for the things Trump likes doing, with little cost.
So gun owners exist along a spectrum, right? There's hardliners on one end, and Democrats who like shooting sometimes on the other end. We've seen through polls that there exist a lot of gun control measures that some gun owners support. But the silencer issue is not really one of them - they haven't been used in any high profile crimes or shootings (they are really, really hard to get, I can attest), none of the major gun control groups have been pushing for more regulations because they're already pretty stringent.
So in that issue we combine:
1) A way for gun owners leery of Trump to get behind him, one of the more 'easy' things people have been asking for for a while
2) No serious legislative opposition, because silencers just haven't had the time or focus to be a big thing
3) Outrage among pro-gun control people for whom it sounds really extreme (The critical 'liberal tears' component without which Trump can't get out of bed in the morning)
Honestly this strikes me as a huge wedge attempt, where he's trying to pick off more 'Blue Dog' Democrat voters.
posted by corb at 9:16 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wtf Mtp? This is stating it like it's a fact rather than her bullshit statement. Gee, wonder why Trump retweeted it?
@MeetThePress:
Watch our interview with @KellyannePolls: Russia "did not succeed" in attempts to sway election http://nbcnews.to/2i5hKXT #MTP
posted by chris24 at 9:17 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
@MeetThePress:
Watch our interview with @KellyannePolls: Russia "did not succeed" in attempts to sway election http://nbcnews.to/2i5hKXT #MTP
posted by chris24 at 9:17 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
they haven't been used in any high profile crimes or shootings (they are really, really hard to get, I can attest)
There's Christopher Dorner whose weapons cache included 10 silencers and whose manifesto explained how easy they were to procure:
There's Christopher Dorner whose weapons cache included 10 silencers and whose manifesto explained how easy they were to procure:
In his Facebook manifesto, Dorner wrote that he had bought the silencers legally without a background check by creating a trust account using Quicken's Willmaker software and paying a notary $10 to make it legal. This loophole has become a common ploy to evade background checks, and it enabled Dorner to obtain the silencer quickly, with the help of a friendly Nevada firearms dealer who ignored the fact that Dorner lived in a state where silencers are banned.posted by peeedro at 9:33 AM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Why do they write things like that? You could add "Claims" or "Argues" before "Russia" and still stay under 140.
posted by Anonymous at 9:34 AM on January 8, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 9:34 AM on January 8, 2017
For those who like to run and live somewhere between NYC and DC, some women I know are running from Harlem to the National Mall starting on MLK, Jr. Day and arriving on inauguration day (and then participating in the women's march). They're looking for fellow runners to join them for any leg of the route, if that's your thing. They're hoping to raise at least $44K for Planned Parenthood (in honor of our 44th president). Here's a NYMag article about it (the details of the route and timeslots for joining, as well as donating, are on the GoFundMe page linked within the article).
posted by melissasaurus at 9:34 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:34 AM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mr. Trump and Kellyanne are currently having a Twitter fight with NBC News over Conway's Meet the Press interview.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:54 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:54 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anyone still harping out the "white working class" narrative is a classist and can frankly go join the other bigots at this point. I have tried to be gentle and civil in pointing this out, but white people across class lines - and particularly upper middle class white people - voted Trump into power. If you'd like to discuss ways of reaching people across class and racial lines, good; I'm with you. If you think the Electoral College is a weird and broken system, good; I'm with you. If you'd like to express contempt for poor people (and oh boy does this site love to; as a bonus, contempt for poor white people also generally hurts poor people of color and poor LGBT people the most, but who cares, right?), then you are buying into what is a half-truth at best as a way of absolving other upper middle class white people of any responsibility in systemic racism, which is infuriating. Go and join the racists, misogynists and homophobes; open classism is not any more okay.
posted by byanyothername at 9:58 AM on January 8, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 9:58 AM on January 8, 2017 [51 favorites]
How Many Divisions Does Jennifer Lawrence Have?
Look, I don't think we're going to bottle up Trump because celebrities are shaking their fists at him. The words and gestures of celebrities don't have that much political power.posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 AM on January 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
But that's just the point. Celebrities aren't going to overthrow Trump -- and yet, while the right-wing press always attacks anti-Republican celebrities, there's the likelihood of a significant increase in such attacks once Trump is president.
The reason is simple: Republicans will control everything in Washington, but they don't want to take ownership of anything bad that happens to America. So they'll try to persuade their base that Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have all the power. Or the "liberal media." Or left-leaning professors and college students. Or celebrities.
Republicans will be in control, but they'll continue to insist that they're the rebels, they're the outsiders, they're the guerrillas fighting to retake America from the power structure. Pay no attention to the fact that they are the power structure.
byanyothername I'm with you 100% on the importance of not buying into the narrative about the 'white working class.'
The point I would highlight is the 'contempt for the poor.' I haven't seen that here on metafilter, especially. I'm not sure I buy into that. I'm with you completely in the need, at this particular moment, in forming constructive political alliances, if US liberalism is to have any chance at all at a go-forwards-plan with any political coherence.
Yet--I've had several discussions where I've been called out as a rightist, tech-bro Republican (or worse-Libertarian), when I am in fact, a lifelong Democrat (by the skin of my teeth, where Socialist/post-structuralist is probably a closer fit), who most recently, had over 200 hours of volunteer service with the homeless community in my neck of the woods. The fact such liberal [credentialization/authorization] checking is required to avoid instant sniping, is however, quite weirdly distinctive of left-of-center discussion sites. I wouldn't paint metafilter as highly unusual in that regard.
I'd also add that a sign saying 'Go Away Bigots! Go away Racists! Go away homophobes!' is literally the worst message one would want to send to an 'undecided' voter trying to sort out their own position on complex social issues in a postmodern society.
It's literally the imposition of ideological orthodoxy-- which is orthogonal to the humanist ideals underlying the the liberal position, right? Regardless of whether a given assertion could be said to be 'true' vis a vis a certain locus of privilege, factual truth, and assorted network effects.
posted by mrdaneri at 10:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
The point I would highlight is the 'contempt for the poor.' I haven't seen that here on metafilter, especially. I'm not sure I buy into that. I'm with you completely in the need, at this particular moment, in forming constructive political alliances, if US liberalism is to have any chance at all at a go-forwards-plan with any political coherence.
Yet--I've had several discussions where I've been called out as a rightist, tech-bro Republican (or worse-Libertarian), when I am in fact, a lifelong Democrat (by the skin of my teeth, where Socialist/post-structuralist is probably a closer fit), who most recently, had over 200 hours of volunteer service with the homeless community in my neck of the woods. The fact such liberal [credentialization/authorization] checking is required to avoid instant sniping, is however, quite weirdly distinctive of left-of-center discussion sites. I wouldn't paint metafilter as highly unusual in that regard.
I'd also add that a sign saying 'Go Away Bigots! Go away Racists! Go away homophobes!' is literally the worst message one would want to send to an 'undecided' voter trying to sort out their own position on complex social issues in a postmodern society.
It's literally the imposition of ideological orthodoxy-- which is orthogonal to the humanist ideals underlying the the liberal position, right? Regardless of whether a given assertion could be said to be 'true' vis a vis a certain locus of privilege, factual truth, and assorted network effects.
posted by mrdaneri at 10:18 AM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
byanothername - I totally agree with you. But the other day I heard a radio interview with two life-long Democrats who had voted for Trump, and it made me think about it differently.
Sadly, it is not surprising that the white middle class voted R, regardless of who was on the ticket. They are firmly in the "I've got mine"- electorate and their only concerns are tax-breaks and tough on crime. They are not interested in whatever happens to the other people or in international politics.
It is actually surprising that the white working class voted so heavily against their own interests. Specially when you learn (as I did through that interview) that they are well aware that they might get screwed over. Yes, they are racist and ignorant, but they are not that ignorant. The men I heard expressed sentiments a lot like those on the radical left, one of them even voted for Sanders in the primaries: they distrust politicians and politics to the extent that they are ready to dismantle democracy for change. I am not sympathetic, I'm scared. But I learned that it is relevant to examine that sentiment.
posted by mumimor at 10:22 AM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sadly, it is not surprising that the white middle class voted R, regardless of who was on the ticket. They are firmly in the "I've got mine"- electorate and their only concerns are tax-breaks and tough on crime. They are not interested in whatever happens to the other people or in international politics.
It is actually surprising that the white working class voted so heavily against their own interests. Specially when you learn (as I did through that interview) that they are well aware that they might get screwed over. Yes, they are racist and ignorant, but they are not that ignorant. The men I heard expressed sentiments a lot like those on the radical left, one of them even voted for Sanders in the primaries: they distrust politicians and politics to the extent that they are ready to dismantle democracy for change. I am not sympathetic, I'm scared. But I learned that it is relevant to examine that sentiment.
posted by mumimor at 10:22 AM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is important. Not just because it's something actually good for the globe re climate change but it's more indication of Chinese long-term geopolitical strategy of using it to exert more power and influence. China is very good with soft power. I don't think that Donald is capable of understanding what soft power is let alone the nuances of how it functions at this level. He's a hard power guy who love hard power people.
Here in Canada issues around trade with China have always been a thing. Talk about free trade deal with China has been in the air for years but has never gone very far. Right now we're finishing up our EU trade deal. I recently heard some commentary by trade specialists and one said that in light of the US election results some of the reaction has been thank goodness we have this deal pretty much done it's more timely and important now.
We've also started the first official steps of a free trade deal with China and though not done because of the election it's been moved up the priority list. Donald is providing types of motivation that I don't think he and his lackies can see or understand let alone how what they're doing (and not doing) will play out in the longer term.
China Is Going All In On Clean Energy As The U.S. Waffles. How Is That Making America Great Again?
For months, the clean energy discussion in the U.S. has been dominated by two questions: First, will the new administration really turn its back on the climate and clean energy policies that have helped create a burgeoning American industry? And if it does, how serious a blow will that be for the sector—and the global transition to clean energy?
China just answered the second question. On January 5, Reuters reported that China’s National Energy Administration (NEA) had announced in the next three years alone, China will invest $361 billion in renewable power generation. The spending comes as the cost of building large-scale solar plants has dropped by as much as 40 percent since 2010. While the Trump administration talks about renewing an outdated love affair with coal and oil, China’s investment is poised to generate over 13 million jobs in the clean energy sector.
----------
China, India, the European Union, Canada and others have strong incentives to embrace cleaner technologies, with or without the U.S. Yes there’s the health of the planet, but there’s also economic self-interest to take into account. According to a U.S. Department of Energy report, clean energy costs are tumbling. The cost of land-based wind power, utility and distributed photovoltaic (PV) solar power, light emitting diodes (LEDs), and electric vehicles (EVs) has fallen by 41% to as high as 94% since 2008.
China’s huge new investment into clean energy is further proof that it has no plans to change course on climate. In fact, the Chinese leadership is emboldened by the news coming out of America. Senior Chinese climate change official, Zou Ji, underscored that if Trump abdicates U.S. leadership on the Paris Agreement, “China’s influence and voice are likely to increase […] which will then spill over into other areas of global governance and increase China’s global standing, power and leadership.
posted by Jalliah at 10:34 AM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Here in Canada issues around trade with China have always been a thing. Talk about free trade deal with China has been in the air for years but has never gone very far. Right now we're finishing up our EU trade deal. I recently heard some commentary by trade specialists and one said that in light of the US election results some of the reaction has been thank goodness we have this deal pretty much done it's more timely and important now.
We've also started the first official steps of a free trade deal with China and though not done because of the election it's been moved up the priority list. Donald is providing types of motivation that I don't think he and his lackies can see or understand let alone how what they're doing (and not doing) will play out in the longer term.
China Is Going All In On Clean Energy As The U.S. Waffles. How Is That Making America Great Again?
For months, the clean energy discussion in the U.S. has been dominated by two questions: First, will the new administration really turn its back on the climate and clean energy policies that have helped create a burgeoning American industry? And if it does, how serious a blow will that be for the sector—and the global transition to clean energy?
China just answered the second question. On January 5, Reuters reported that China’s National Energy Administration (NEA) had announced in the next three years alone, China will invest $361 billion in renewable power generation. The spending comes as the cost of building large-scale solar plants has dropped by as much as 40 percent since 2010. While the Trump administration talks about renewing an outdated love affair with coal and oil, China’s investment is poised to generate over 13 million jobs in the clean energy sector.
----------
China, India, the European Union, Canada and others have strong incentives to embrace cleaner technologies, with or without the U.S. Yes there’s the health of the planet, but there’s also economic self-interest to take into account. According to a U.S. Department of Energy report, clean energy costs are tumbling. The cost of land-based wind power, utility and distributed photovoltaic (PV) solar power, light emitting diodes (LEDs), and electric vehicles (EVs) has fallen by 41% to as high as 94% since 2008.
China’s huge new investment into clean energy is further proof that it has no plans to change course on climate. In fact, the Chinese leadership is emboldened by the news coming out of America. Senior Chinese climate change official, Zou Ji, underscored that if Trump abdicates U.S. leadership on the Paris Agreement, “China’s influence and voice are likely to increase […] which will then spill over into other areas of global governance and increase China’s global standing, power and leadership.
posted by Jalliah at 10:34 AM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Major Christian group condemns Trump’s cabinet picks, policy agenda
Amazing how when you get away from rightwing evangelicals you get a lot more Christ in Christian.
posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [79 favorites]
The National Council of Churches (NCC)—which represents 38 denominations and faith communities, or roughly 45 million people—unveiled the statement on Friday afternoon. Co-signed by the Conference of National Black Churches, the Ecumenical Poverty Initiative, and the Samuel DeWitt Proctor Conference, the letter implores the former businessman not to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA) or slash funding for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) — better known as food stamps — saying such programs protect the poor.Some of the bigger denominations represented are United Methodists, the Presbyterian Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church, and Episcopalians.
“We have grave concerns about a proposed policy agenda that, if enacted, would put the most vulnerable among us in jeopardy,” the statement reads. “Throughout Christian scriptures we are instructed to care for the poor and the most vulnerable…While working to improve the ACA will benefit all Americans, repealing it without simultaneously offering a replacement is reckless and unnecessarily endangers the health of millions of people. This is certainly no way to make America great.”
Signers also blasted Trump’s controversial cabinet picks. “Stephen Bannon, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions and Michael Flynn epitomize extremist, racist and fringe world views that we believe are morally inconsistent with Christian principles of loving neighbor and antithetical to American values of ‘liberty and justice for all,’” the statement reads.
“These objectionable nominees represent a bygone era of hatred that we have denounced and worked tirelessly to eradicate,” it continues. “Their corrupted credentials, which include condoning and purporting racist, anti-Semitic, white supremacist, xenophobic and anti-Muslim ideologies, are not only unacceptable but they should disqualify them for service as public officials. We urge the President-Elect to protect the integrity of our nation by replacing these nominees with candidates who represent shared American values for the common good.”
Amazing how when you get away from rightwing evangelicals you get a lot more Christ in Christian.
posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on January 8, 2017 [79 favorites]
And for those who think that the Trump transitional tone is akin to the DPRK, that's not right - or at least, not the best parallel. They are operating like a corporation, with the same absolute rules about communication, loyalty and the taboo of dissent imposed not just on the Trump administration but on the country. It's the only way he knows how to operate. Think of it like Apple, only instead of selling iPhones through Apple stores to eager customers he'll be spraying poisonous ordure throughout the land like an incontinent airborne hippo, and blaming everyone else for being covered in malodorous shit.
posted by Devonian at 11:00 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 11:00 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Once money became speech, it was only a matter of time before money became ethics: Reince Priebus: 'There's No Reason' To Do Background Checks On Trump's Cabinet Picks
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:07 AM on January 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:07 AM on January 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
The people who haven't finished taking care of the confict of interest paperwork include Gen. Mattis, the only nominee I actually respect.
Apparently the paperwork is expensive to prepare and the potential salary cut can be pretty noticeable.
link
I don't like linking to 'The Washington Examiner' but there's an article there which lays out the costs of the disclosure process.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:12 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apparently the paperwork is expensive to prepare and the potential salary cut can be pretty noticeable.
link
I don't like linking to 'The Washington Examiner' but there's an article there which lays out the costs of the disclosure process.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:12 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was 13/14, so of course I snotted at her that I was FINE could she GET OUT, and then she was silently pissed for a bit. I didn't get it all at the time, because closing the bathroom door was respected in the house, but now I do. She was all *we're all gonna die and my daughter is worried about me seeing her poop we're all fucked*
Armageddon is no excuse for not closing the bathroom door
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:14 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
@realdonaldtrump: Before I, or anyone, saw the classified and/or highly confidential hacking intelligence report, it was leaked out to @NBCNews. So serious!
SO many things wrong.
a) or anyone? So it was read and leaked by what, dinosaurs? robots?
b) Classified and/or highly confidential. LOL
c) Serious in what sense, sir?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
SO many things wrong.
a) or anyone? So it was read and leaked by what, dinosaurs? robots?
b) Classified and/or highly confidential. LOL
c) Serious in what sense, sir?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ach, dupe.
posted by Devonian at 11:22 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 11:22 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
They have to get moving. I mean, they have to move faster. And they have all the information. These are people that have been highly successful in their lives. They need to move quicker.
When people start to die because of these cabinet appointments I do hope we'll remember Priebus here and never let him forget.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:24 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
When people start to die because of these cabinet appointments I do hope we'll remember Priebus here and never let him forget.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:24 AM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
People should not let volunteered information on exit polls reliably inform them on how much a particular voter makes. Trump himself inflates his income by a huge factor. Clinton downplayed hers. That's who they represent. The average Trump voter is very insecure about their income and will readily inflate it after admitting they voted for Trump; because they can, and are expected to, and because they don't want to look insane. They might even believe it themselves.
posted by Brian B. at 11:25 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Brian B. at 11:25 AM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
L Has anyone an idea whether DT can read, and how well? Could it be that he literally can't take in intelligence reports or other written matter of moderate complexity? His avoidance of emails, his illiteracy and incompetence in tweeting, suggest to me that he might well be functionally illiterate. Perhaps the green ink letters represent his intellectual peak, and that's a while ago.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:24 AM on January 8
[+] [!]
I think he could have dyslexia, or have issues with his vision, or even both.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:29 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 8:24 AM on January 8
[+] [!]
I think he could have dyslexia, or have issues with his vision, or even both.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:29 AM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh look! More stunning hypocrisy:
In a previously-undisclosed letter obtained by POLITICO, McConnell wrote to then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in February 2009, asking for both the FBI and the OGE process to be finished before committee chairmen scheduled a hearing.
Letter. (pdf)
The article details all the fuckery that will be going on next Wednesday by the repubs.
posted by futz at 11:39 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
In a previously-undisclosed letter obtained by POLITICO, McConnell wrote to then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in February 2009, asking for both the FBI and the OGE process to be finished before committee chairmen scheduled a hearing.
Letter. (pdf)
The article details all the fuckery that will be going on next Wednesday by the repubs.
posted by futz at 11:39 AM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
More on this: Senate Confirmation Hearings to Begin Without All Background Checks
Thanks for the link, zachlipton, although this quote in particular makes me see red:
Maybe because he knows what the real danger is: people like John Cornyn who'd have us trade liberty for security.
posted by galaxy rise at 11:41 AM on January 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
Thanks for the link, zachlipton, although this quote in particular makes me see red:
Republicans are indignant. “Holding up confirmations just for delay’s sake is irresponsible and it is dangerous,” said Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas. He added, “This is a dangerous world we are living in, and why in the world would we want to make it even more dangerous just to let our colleagues delay for delay’s sake President-elect Trump getting to fill his cabinet, particularly these important national security offices?”This is such transparent fearmongering in an effort to get us to overlook corruption, ethics violations, and the constitutional responsibilities of the Senate. It's textbook authoritarianism. He doesn't even say what the dangers are - terrorism? hackers? foreign governments? - just that we should be afraid, very afraid.
Maybe because he knows what the real danger is: people like John Cornyn who'd have us trade liberty for security.
posted by galaxy rise at 11:41 AM on January 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
I hope that someone takes that same letter and sends it back to McConnell. Nothing will come of it but...
posted by futz at 11:43 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by futz at 11:43 AM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans forfeited all claims to outrage over delay/obstruction tactics. Democrats should delay everything to the maximum extent possible. Never again should they ever consent to waiving any procedural steps. No voice votes. No unanimous consent. No timing accommodations or waiver of disclosure, although the minority has no say really in committee. Not on nominees, not on naming a Post Office. Preferably they should filibuster every single bill, up to and including disaster relief. Just to stop Republicans from governing.
Republicans started the total obstruction, that's the new normal. Trump should receive in turn what they gave to Obama. No consent. No agreement. No comity. Nothing moves forward without 60 votes. Total resistance against an illegitimate puppet and gerrymandered rule by the minority.
If there's a NeverTrump faction (there isn't), Democrats should be ready to accept their assistance with groundwork already laid for resistance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:52 AM on January 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
Republicans started the total obstruction, that's the new normal. Trump should receive in turn what they gave to Obama. No consent. No agreement. No comity. Nothing moves forward without 60 votes. Total resistance against an illegitimate puppet and gerrymandered rule by the minority.
If there's a NeverTrump faction (there isn't), Democrats should be ready to accept their assistance with groundwork already laid for resistance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:52 AM on January 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
Am I correct in assessing that background checks not being done hasn't been a big issue in other transitions because they would have been occuring before the usual practice is to have your main people lined up before the election is finished so these these are either in progress or ready to go nearer to day one?
If so then this is all just more cover-up and Repubs trying to fix the mess created by the incompetence of their Great Leader and team. Correct?
posted by Jalliah at 11:58 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
If so then this is all just more cover-up and Repubs trying to fix the mess created by the incompetence of their Great Leader and team. Correct?
posted by Jalliah at 11:58 AM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Pharma Bro" Martin Shkreli Suspended From Twitter After Harassing A Teen Vogue Writer
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump himself inflates his income by a huge factor. Clinton downplayed hers.
What kind of both-sides horseshit is this. Clinton has publicly released every one of her tax returns for the past 30-some years. It's there for everyone to see. Trump has released exactly zero tax returns.
The Clinton's had very modest incomes for most of their careers as public servants. When Bill left office in 2001 they had several million dollars of debt from legal fees defending against the Republican jihad.
Since then they have been very fortunate to make millions in speaking fees, every dollar of which was disclosed in their tax returns. Hillary has acknowledged her good fortune in many speeches, saying that people like her need to pay higher taxes.
If by downplaying, you are referring to Clinton's statement "We came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt." But that was a completely truthful statement. It wasn't downplaying anything.
But she said "I regret it. It was inartful. It was accurate. But, we are so successful and we are so blessed by the success we've had. And my husband has worked incredibly hard."
Enough of the false equivalency.
posted by JackFlash at 12:02 PM on January 8, 2017 [74 favorites]
What kind of both-sides horseshit is this. Clinton has publicly released every one of her tax returns for the past 30-some years. It's there for everyone to see. Trump has released exactly zero tax returns.
The Clinton's had very modest incomes for most of their careers as public servants. When Bill left office in 2001 they had several million dollars of debt from legal fees defending against the Republican jihad.
Since then they have been very fortunate to make millions in speaking fees, every dollar of which was disclosed in their tax returns. Hillary has acknowledged her good fortune in many speeches, saying that people like her need to pay higher taxes.
If by downplaying, you are referring to Clinton's statement "We came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt." But that was a completely truthful statement. It wasn't downplaying anything.
But she said "I regret it. It was inartful. It was accurate. But, we are so successful and we are so blessed by the success we've had. And my husband has worked incredibly hard."
Enough of the false equivalency.
posted by JackFlash at 12:02 PM on January 8, 2017 [74 favorites]
T.D. Strange I hear what you're saying, but does that not play into the narrative from history?
E.g. That happens.
The very next act is a wildly popular counter-revolution with a anti-Populist strongman saying stuff like, 'Aren't you tired of the gridlock? Aren't we ready as a people to take the next step for America? Let's streamline the process!'
The crypto-fascists behind the levers of power finally feel good enough to drop the 'crypto' prefix.
posted by mrdaneri at 12:03 PM on January 8, 2017
E.g. That happens.
The very next act is a wildly popular counter-revolution with a anti-Populist strongman saying stuff like, 'Aren't you tired of the gridlock? Aren't we ready as a people to take the next step for America? Let's streamline the process!'
The crypto-fascists behind the levers of power finally feel good enough to drop the 'crypto' prefix.
posted by mrdaneri at 12:03 PM on January 8, 2017
Am I correct in assessing that background checks not being done hasn't been a big issue in other transitions because they would have been occuring before the usual practice is to have your main people lined up before the election is finished?
Remember what seems like a few ages ago, where I was talking about how competent Republican organizers are just kind of checking out of the process and not making themselves available to the Trump team? (Who apparently are resistant to hiring anyone not loyal to Dear Leader anyway). I think this kind of stuff is absolutely the holes that result from having very few just competent operators working on this stuff - the low-level folk who would make everything roll smoothly, who would focus on checking in with the nominees and ensuring they do stuff and everything could be done on time. And yeah, having people lined up before 'whims of the president elect' take place.
Elected GOP officials may not be familiar with what this means, because they're not used to having to see this stuff - it all usually takes place in the background. It may seem like bizarre procedural complaints they've never seen before. But I'm sure that's what it is.
posted by corb at 12:05 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Remember what seems like a few ages ago, where I was talking about how competent Republican organizers are just kind of checking out of the process and not making themselves available to the Trump team? (Who apparently are resistant to hiring anyone not loyal to Dear Leader anyway). I think this kind of stuff is absolutely the holes that result from having very few just competent operators working on this stuff - the low-level folk who would make everything roll smoothly, who would focus on checking in with the nominees and ensuring they do stuff and everything could be done on time. And yeah, having people lined up before 'whims of the president elect' take place.
Elected GOP officials may not be familiar with what this means, because they're not used to having to see this stuff - it all usually takes place in the background. It may seem like bizarre procedural complaints they've never seen before. But I'm sure that's what it is.
posted by corb at 12:05 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
The very next act is a wildly popular counter-revolution with a anti-Populist strongman saying stuff like, 'Aren't you tired of the gridlock? Aren't we ready as a people to take the next step for America? Let's streamline the process!'
This is what already happened. The strong man is in power. The only choice is resistance, or working to pass their fascist agenda anyway. Democrats have to keep making the case that the Ryan agenda (which is what's coming, not Trump's) is bad for everyone, and show they're resisting it as hard as Republicans resisted Obama's. The lesson we were just taught is obstruction is rewarded, not punished.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:08 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is what already happened. The strong man is in power. The only choice is resistance, or working to pass their fascist agenda anyway. Democrats have to keep making the case that the Ryan agenda (which is what's coming, not Trump's) is bad for everyone, and show they're resisting it as hard as Republicans resisted Obama's. The lesson we were just taught is obstruction is rewarded, not punished.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:08 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Even born-again Putin ally Sean Hannity is having trouble separating the faithful from the trolls.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:12 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:12 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
L Has anyone an idea whether DT can read, and how well? Could it be that he literally can't take in intelligence reports or other written matter of moderate complexity? His avoidance of emails, his illiteracy and incompetence in tweeting, suggest to me that he might well be functionally illiterate. Perhaps the green ink letters represent his intellectual peak, and that's a while ago.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:24 AM on January 8
[+] [!]
I think he could have dyslexia, or have issues with his vision, or even both.
I'm totally game for theories that Trump is mentally unstable, but the dude does have a BS, and no matter how rich and well connected you are, it requires a remarkable amount of cheating and accommodation by professors to graduate from college and still be completely incapable of reading. I'm pretty sure he is capable of reading. After all, that's how he knows what people are writing about him in magazines. I think though that ever since he first got written up in the NYT or the Post oh so many years ago, he just doesn't have any interest in reading anything that isn't about him.
posted by dis_integration at 12:14 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 8:24 AM on January 8
[+] [!]
I think he could have dyslexia, or have issues with his vision, or even both.
I'm totally game for theories that Trump is mentally unstable, but the dude does have a BS, and no matter how rich and well connected you are, it requires a remarkable amount of cheating and accommodation by professors to graduate from college and still be completely incapable of reading. I'm pretty sure he is capable of reading. After all, that's how he knows what people are writing about him in magazines. I think though that ever since he first got written up in the NYT or the Post oh so many years ago, he just doesn't have any interest in reading anything that isn't about him.
posted by dis_integration at 12:14 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hillary has acknowledged her good fortune in many speeches, saying that people like her need to pay higher taxes.
Yes, by giving paid speeches behind closed doors to wealthy people and saying it, but not saying it during debates and campaign speeches, that would be downplaying it. Especially since it was used against her during the primary, leaked by others.
Enough of the false equivalency.
I made a direct contrast in their approaches.
posted by Brian B. at 12:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, by giving paid speeches behind closed doors to wealthy people and saying it, but not saying it during debates and campaign speeches, that would be downplaying it. Especially since it was used against her during the primary, leaked by others.
Enough of the false equivalency.
I made a direct contrast in their approaches.
posted by Brian B. at 12:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Remember what seems like a few ages ago, where I was talking about how competent Republican organizers are just kind of checking out of the process and not making themselves available to the Trump team? (Who apparently are resistant to hiring anyone not loyal to Dear Leader anyway). I think this kind of stuff is absolutely the holes that result from having very few just competent operators working on this stuff - the low-level folk who would make everything roll smoothly, who would focus on checking in with the nominees and ensuring they do stuff and everything could be done on time. And yeah, having people lined up before 'whims of the president elect' take place.
Elected GOP officials may not be familiar with what this means, because they're not used to having to see this stuff - it all usually takes place in the background. It may seem like bizarre procedural complaints they've never seen before. But I'm sure that's what it is.
On the outset my first thoughts were that it was about something more nefarious and then I recalled times at work when someone, someone dropped the ball on some paperwork and the higher ups had to scramble and BS in order to smooth it over and try to fix it.
Not excusing what the Repubs are saying and doing to BS it but I'm leaning towards this being more a covering Donalds et al's asses because they don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to the details of governing.
posted by Jalliah at 12:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mitch McConnell tells Democrats hoping to delay Cabinet confirmations to "grow up"
-- “All of these little procedural complaints are related to their frustration at having not only lost the White House but having lost the Senate,” McConnell told CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “I understand that but we need to sort of grow up here and get past that.”
-- And on the intelligence community’s report on Russian hacking activities relating to the U.S. election and Mr. Trump’s comments on the issue, McConnell said he understands a new president’s hope to get along with Russia -- but said those hopes will “be dashed pretty quickly” once Mr. Trump takes office.
-- McConnell added that he believes Russia intervened in the election, but said it ultimately “made no difference” in the results.
“There’s no evidence whatsoever that it changed the outcome of the election,” he said.
posted by futz at 12:20 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
-- “All of these little procedural complaints are related to their frustration at having not only lost the White House but having lost the Senate,” McConnell told CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “I understand that but we need to sort of grow up here and get past that.”
-- And on the intelligence community’s report on Russian hacking activities relating to the U.S. election and Mr. Trump’s comments on the issue, McConnell said he understands a new president’s hope to get along with Russia -- but said those hopes will “be dashed pretty quickly” once Mr. Trump takes office.
-- McConnell added that he believes Russia intervened in the election, but said it ultimately “made no difference” in the results.
“There’s no evidence whatsoever that it changed the outcome of the election,” he said.
posted by futz at 12:20 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mitch McConnell tells Democrats hoping to delay Cabinet confirmations to "grow up"
Remember when Republicans "grew up" and lived with Obama's election. We should grow up exactly like they did. With total and complete obstruction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:24 PM on January 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
Remember when Republicans "grew up" and lived with Obama's election. We should grow up exactly like they did. With total and complete obstruction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:24 PM on January 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
I'm pretty sure he is capable of reading.
There is actually video evidence of him reading at a high-school level. Google "trump reading 'the snake'" if you want to see it, though it's a little troubling.
Also, when he makes prepared remarks his fluency is above average, as long as he sticks to the script and doesn't get excited. See his testimony to the Senate on the renovation of the UN Building.
posted by Coventry at 12:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is actually video evidence of him reading at a high-school level. Google "trump reading 'the snake'" if you want to see it, though it's a little troubling.
Also, when he makes prepared remarks his fluency is above average, as long as he sticks to the script and doesn't get excited. See his testimony to the Senate on the renovation of the UN Building.
posted by Coventry at 12:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
The journalists talking to McConnell should be quoting his own words after Obama'a election back at him. Grrrr.
posted by R343L at 12:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by R343L at 12:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:27 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Post has a nice little scheduling guide to upcoming hearings: Everything you want to know about the Trump Cabinet confirmation hearings
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The journalists talking to McConnell should be quoting his own words after Obama'a election back at him. Grrrr.
That would require them to like, work and stuff
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:35 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
That would require them to like, work and stuff
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:35 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
>There is actually video evidence of him reading at a high-school level. Google "trump reading 'the snake'" if you want to see it, though it's a little troubling.
If anything, that reaffirms my suspicion that he is illiterate. That poem does not have the syntactic complexity of an intelligence report, a briefing, or a brief. Having watched too much of him during his deposition today, I saw nothing to suggest that he could read even an editorial.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:38 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
If anything, that reaffirms my suspicion that he is illiterate. That poem does not have the syntactic complexity of an intelligence report, a briefing, or a brief. Having watched too much of him during his deposition today, I saw nothing to suggest that he could read even an editorial.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:38 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Since then they have been very fortunate to make millions in speaking fees, every dollar of which was disclosed in their tax returns.
I couldn't find my comment in an earlier thread, but if you add up their book royalties they get to about $200 million.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:40 PM on January 8, 2017
Reading comprehension has two parts. Physically mouthing the words on the page, and the comprehension part.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Having watched too much of him during his deposition today
I'm sorry what? You were present? Or am I missing something? Any fireworks?
posted by prefpara at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2017
I'm sorry what? You were present? Or am I missing something? Any fireworks?
posted by prefpara at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2017
The Senate just named a supporter of the Dakota pipeline to head its Indian Affairs committee
posted by zombieflanders at 12:56 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 12:56 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'd ask you the same. No one votes Democratic because the Democrats stand boldly for... nothing.
Note that the majority of voters usually vote for Democratic candidates in House and Senate races, and a majority or plurality have voted for the Democratic candidates for President in 6 of the last 7 national elections. So "no one" must be code for "most people".
posted by Justinian at 1:00 PM on January 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
Note that the majority of voters usually vote for Democratic candidates in House and Senate races, and a majority or plurality have voted for the Democratic candidates for President in 6 of the last 7 national elections. So "no one" must be code for "most people".
posted by Justinian at 1:00 PM on January 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
Mitch McConnell tells Democrats hoping to delay Cabinet confirmations to "grow up"
I wish they'd reply "No, you grow up!" If Mitchie wants to run the government like an eight year old, then he should get his wish.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wish they'd reply "No, you grow up!" If Mitchie wants to run the government like an eight year old, then he should get his wish.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Senate just named a supporter of the Dakota pipeline to head its Indian Affairs committee
Though he hardly tries for any groups, among all others I think Trump makes the least effort to mask his loathing for Native Americans. Some goes for the rest of his GOP fans: the speakers we'd see before him at his rallies making Pocahontas jokes about Warren, laughing over war-whoops. Trump and his ilk wouldn't (quite) be brazen enough to call her Aunt Jemima or Hymie Goldstein but when it comes to straight-up 19th-century-style-racism against native people then it's so accepted that even Democrats can hardly be bothered to notice it, or so it seems.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Though he hardly tries for any groups, among all others I think Trump makes the least effort to mask his loathing for Native Americans. Some goes for the rest of his GOP fans: the speakers we'd see before him at his rallies making Pocahontas jokes about Warren, laughing over war-whoops. Trump and his ilk wouldn't (quite) be brazen enough to call her Aunt Jemima or Hymie Goldstein but when it comes to straight-up 19th-century-style-racism against native people then it's so accepted that even Democrats can hardly be bothered to notice it, or so it seems.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
My bad. Deposition was in June and is on YT. I watched it today. Is that second order hermeneutics, I wonder.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I haven't taken the "shut up and support the president" argument from Republicans seriously since what happened to the Dixie Chicks, and that went down when I was still a minor.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Though he hardly tries for any groups, among all others I think Trump makes the least effort to mask his loathing for Native Americans.
Probably due to their direct competition to him in the casino business.
posted by PenDevil at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Probably due to their direct competition to him in the casino business.
posted by PenDevil at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Another example of Trump's Mirror. From 2013.
@realDonaldTrump
I wonder how much our "leaders" have promised, or given, Russia in order for them to behave and not make the U.S. look even worse?
posted by chris24 at 1:20 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
I wonder how much our "leaders" have promised, or given, Russia in order for them to behave and not make the U.S. look even worse?
posted by chris24 at 1:20 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
That particular argument conveniently only is used by Republicans when they are in power, and they forget all about "Patriotism!" and "Support the President no matter what" when they're not. They certainly didn't treat Obama with the respect they wanted us to give Bush and now Trump.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:21 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:21 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hillary had a very sizeable majority of the popular vote. If the Democrats are at all worried about the legitimacy of running maximum interference to temper the power of a basically-illegitimate administration, they should not be.
I'm normally very cautious about using the letter of the law to subvert its greater purpose, because I believe our democratic structures deserve respect even if they're being used by people whose purpose I don't subscribe to, but seeing how badly the Republicans have damaged those structures in the past and how much further damage they're clearly prepared to inflict now, I look at my normal nuanced big-picture historically-informed sense of diffidence and respect and think... fuck it, if that's the battle, then so be it.
Full ninja. Full guerilla. Total war.
Go get 'em.
posted by Devonian at 1:31 PM on January 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
I'm normally very cautious about using the letter of the law to subvert its greater purpose, because I believe our democratic structures deserve respect even if they're being used by people whose purpose I don't subscribe to, but seeing how badly the Republicans have damaged those structures in the past and how much further damage they're clearly prepared to inflict now, I look at my normal nuanced big-picture historically-informed sense of diffidence and respect and think... fuck it, if that's the battle, then so be it.
Full ninja. Full guerilla. Total war.
Go get 'em.
posted by Devonian at 1:31 PM on January 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
Hillary Clinton Receives Ovation at ‘The Color Purple’: Mrs. Clinton received a sustained standing ovation from the sold-out crowd, a response far warmer than the scattered booing and clapping that greeted the arrival of Vice President-elect Mike Pence when he attended “Hamilton,” just one block north, on Nov. 18. Mrs. Clinton was accompanied by her husband, Bill Clinton, and their daughter, Chelsea
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:36 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:36 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
An article in Salon about Masha Gessen, Pussy Riot, and Hunter Heaney, who founded the Voice Project to help endangered artists. Here's the last paragraph:
“A Trump presidency is definitely going to give organizations like ours more clients,” said Hunter Heaney. “I take no joy in it. We’re already having to adapt our playbook from other countries. I never thought stuff I learned in the Congo could apply here.”posted by kingless at 1:40 PM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
T.D. Strange Remember when Republicans "grew up" and lived with Obama's election. We should grow up exactly like they did. With total and complete obstruction.
Aim higher! We're smarter, better educated, and morally superior to Republicans, I'm sure we can do better than merely doing exactly what they did. I hope we can obstruct those motherfuckers at least twice as hard as they obstructed Obama.
I wanna see the filibuster record they racked up during the Obama years be broken in the first year of Trump's presidency!
If Donald Trump can fart without being filibustered I'll be severely disappointed.
We're better at the Republicans and we've had eight years to study their techniques, if we can't do more and worse to Trump than he did to Obama we're just not trying hard enough.
And most important, we don't rely on the Senate Dems to do it for us, go to https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web, we can hit a lot of the little fuckers where it hurts locally.
If you live in a Republican district, or near one, show up to every single meeting the Rep calls, organize with friends, ask questions designed specifically to hurt them for their base, have your friends seeded through the audience express support and cheer you when you ask, make them sweat, make them look bad to their voters.
Use similar techniques to bolster the spine of your Democrats.
Hit the local elections hard, we need every single local office from dog catcher on up to be solid, deep indigo, Democratic. They can't cheat nearly as easily when we control county offices, city offices, school boards, etc.
We win the big fight in 2020 by winning tiny fights in 2017, bigger fights in 2018, and the tiny ones again in 2019.
And in the meantime, every single win we get, like the one on ethics rules, should be plastered everywhere. I don't care if it looks low class, we've got to brag on ourselves and our elected Democrats.
Don't let a single fuck up by Trump pass without as many "you know, Obama would have handled that so much better, remember how good he was?" jabs as you can get in. Never let an opportunity to tear them down or build up Democrats pass untaken. We win by demoralizing their side, energizing ours, and constant work.
And every win we get locally helps the Senate Dems force the scumbag DINO's not to break ranks. Like all cowards they'll back what they see as the stronger side, so we need to look strong to keep them and their votes with us.
posted by sotonohito at 1:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
Aim higher! We're smarter, better educated, and morally superior to Republicans, I'm sure we can do better than merely doing exactly what they did. I hope we can obstruct those motherfuckers at least twice as hard as they obstructed Obama.
I wanna see the filibuster record they racked up during the Obama years be broken in the first year of Trump's presidency!
If Donald Trump can fart without being filibustered I'll be severely disappointed.
We're better at the Republicans and we've had eight years to study their techniques, if we can't do more and worse to Trump than he did to Obama we're just not trying hard enough.
And most important, we don't rely on the Senate Dems to do it for us, go to https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web, we can hit a lot of the little fuckers where it hurts locally.
If you live in a Republican district, or near one, show up to every single meeting the Rep calls, organize with friends, ask questions designed specifically to hurt them for their base, have your friends seeded through the audience express support and cheer you when you ask, make them sweat, make them look bad to their voters.
Use similar techniques to bolster the spine of your Democrats.
Hit the local elections hard, we need every single local office from dog catcher on up to be solid, deep indigo, Democratic. They can't cheat nearly as easily when we control county offices, city offices, school boards, etc.
We win the big fight in 2020 by winning tiny fights in 2017, bigger fights in 2018, and the tiny ones again in 2019.
And in the meantime, every single win we get, like the one on ethics rules, should be plastered everywhere. I don't care if it looks low class, we've got to brag on ourselves and our elected Democrats.
Don't let a single fuck up by Trump pass without as many "you know, Obama would have handled that so much better, remember how good he was?" jabs as you can get in. Never let an opportunity to tear them down or build up Democrats pass untaken. We win by demoralizing their side, energizing ours, and constant work.
And every win we get locally helps the Senate Dems force the scumbag DINO's not to break ranks. Like all cowards they'll back what they see as the stronger side, so we need to look strong to keep them and their votes with us.
posted by sotonohito at 1:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
Oops.
Mediaite: Washington Post Express Panned For Using ‘Male’ Symbol on Cover About Women’s March
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mediaite: Washington Post Express Panned For Using ‘Male’ Symbol on Cover About Women’s March
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think what is going to happen is this: Soon after Trump is sworn in, he'll modify our alliances in Syria to align with Russia's. France will, too, probably, if Le Pen is elected.
This will throw at least our European allies into more chaos and confusion, and further weaken NATO.
The result of this will be a major terrorist attack in the US, and also, Russia will invade the Baltics.
With the US on the brink of several shooting wars, a last-ditch band of plucky politicians will attempt to stop Trump by doing...something. What? I don't know. And after that, I don't know, either.
posted by staggering termagant at 2:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
This will throw at least our European allies into more chaos and confusion, and further weaken NATO.
The result of this will be a major terrorist attack in the US, and also, Russia will invade the Baltics.
With the US on the brink of several shooting wars, a last-ditch band of plucky politicians will attempt to stop Trump by doing...something. What? I don't know. And after that, I don't know, either.
posted by staggering termagant at 2:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
@SaraQDavid: how many women do you think @WaPoExpress has on its edit team?
[ ] 0
[ ] 1 who is srsly overworked
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:10 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
[ ] 0
[ ] 1 who is srsly overworked
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:10 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hemingway?. How long has it been since anyone called anyone the Hemingway of anything?
I just know that if I ever compared someone to Hemingway, it would NOT be a fucking compliment.
posted by threeturtles at 2:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just know that if I ever compared someone to Hemingway, it would NOT be a fucking compliment.
posted by threeturtles at 2:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I know the old saying about malice and stupidity, but I'm at the point where I don't believe the Washington Post cover was an honest mistake. I think someone responsible for the cover wanted to appease the white males who would be offended by a feminist-pandering cover, or to district from the message of the intended Women's March by creating a stupid, easily reported and digested controversy - much like Trump's MO.
I no longer can assume good faith with the people who direct the content mainstream media: owners and maybe editors, not reporters. They're in the same position as the Republican congress. They may not agree with Trump's policy - many of them are probably horrified by how goddamn stupid he is - but they know if they play along then they get to strengthen that white male privilege that has been (very) slowly and minutely eroding since the Civil Rights era.
posted by bibliowench at 2:33 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I no longer can assume good faith with the people who direct the content mainstream media: owners and maybe editors, not reporters. They're in the same position as the Republican congress. They may not agree with Trump's policy - many of them are probably horrified by how goddamn stupid he is - but they know if they play along then they get to strengthen that white male privilege that has been (very) slowly and minutely eroding since the Civil Rights era.
posted by bibliowench at 2:33 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd love for democrats to freak out and filibuster and act like this is the fucking emergency it is, but will they?
posted by Brainy at 2:34 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 2:34 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
if I ever compared someone to Hemingway, it would NOT be a fucking compliment.
For all of Hem's flaws and problems, he was always a pretty reliable left-liberal (for his day). His built in shock-proof shit detector would've taken the measure of Trumpski in a heart-beat. Famously, Hem wrote Joe McCarthy, inviting him to Key West because his boys needed the boxing practice. One wonders to what he would've invited Trump.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:36 PM on January 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
For all of Hem's flaws and problems, he was always a pretty reliable left-liberal (for his day). His built in shock-proof shit detector would've taken the measure of Trumpski in a heart-beat. Famously, Hem wrote Joe McCarthy, inviting him to Key West because his boys needed the boxing practice. One wonders to what he would've invited Trump.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:36 PM on January 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
A Jewish Couple Say They Received A Racist Note After Hanging A Black Lives Matter Flag: Police are investigating the alleged note — which contained a hand-drawn, yellow Star of David and the word “Jude” — but said they were unsure what the symbols signified.
FFS.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:39 PM on January 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
FFS.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:39 PM on January 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump's actions silence Chinese American supporters in Southern California
For Trump’s Chinese American supporters, many of whom are first-generation immigrants from mainland China, the president-elect’s aggressive posturing toward China has come as a surprise and injected a degree of uncertainty about the candidate whom they rallied around during the campaign.
“Being Chinese American, you are always in the awkward position of deciding who you are loyal to,” said Wang.
No, it's not being in an "awkward position". You just got screwed with your pants on, Mr. Wang.
And people are "surprised" at this? Really? Where the heck have you been in the last two years?
posted by FJT at 2:39 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
For Trump’s Chinese American supporters, many of whom are first-generation immigrants from mainland China, the president-elect’s aggressive posturing toward China has come as a surprise and injected a degree of uncertainty about the candidate whom they rallied around during the campaign.
“Being Chinese American, you are always in the awkward position of deciding who you are loyal to,” said Wang.
No, it's not being in an "awkward position". You just got screwed with your pants on, Mr. Wang.
And people are "surprised" at this? Really? Where the heck have you been in the last two years?
posted by FJT at 2:39 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'd love for democrats to freak out and filibuster and act like this is the fucking emergency it is, but will they?
It's kind of the 25th hour for that, isn't it?
The only thing that would have averted utter catastrophe would have been massive, shut-down-business-as-usual protests before the inauguration. The resistance is not spirited enough for that. We will all suffer as a result.
posted by perspicio at 2:42 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's kind of the 25th hour for that, isn't it?
The only thing that would have averted utter catastrophe would have been massive, shut-down-business-as-usual protests before the inauguration. The resistance is not spirited enough for that. We will all suffer as a result.
posted by perspicio at 2:42 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Inaugural parade announcer since 1957 not invited back for Trump's big day
They're looking to call Brotman, who's been doing this since Eisenhower in '57, "Announcer Chairman Emeritus" and replace him with Steve Ray, who was a Trump supporter.
posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on January 8, 2017
They're looking to call Brotman, who's been doing this since Eisenhower in '57, "Announcer Chairman Emeritus" and replace him with Steve Ray, who was a Trump supporter.
posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on January 8, 2017
@fscottfitzgld I knew Ernest Hemingway, and you sir, are no Ernest Hemingway.
posted by localhuman at 2:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 2:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
New Senator from California can't explain why she didn't prosecute Trump's Treasury pick when she was AG
Kamala Harris was just sworn in as a senator from California, but her last gig was as California's Attorney General, and in that role, she decided not to prosecute Trump Treasury Secretary pick Steve Mnuchin, whom her office had identified as presiding over "widespread misconduct" in foreclosing on Californians -- that is, stealing their houses.posted by Joe in Australia at 2:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Harris's campaign received large donations from Mnuchin and from shareholders in Onewest, the crooked bank that Mnuchin ran.
After a leaked memo from Harris's office showed that her staff believed there was "widespread misconduct," The Hill asked Harris why she didn't take action. She had no explanation, apart from, "It’s a decision my office made" and "We pursued it just like any other case. We go and we take a case wherever the facts lead us."
Mnuchin's bank ordered its contractors not to comply with California subpoenas about its foreclosure mills.
Note that Harris is a Democrat.
I really don't get the love fest for Kamala Harris. She is a prosecutor. Prosecutors are mostly terrible.
posted by Justinian at 3:01 PM on January 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:01 PM on January 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Can you say "low-information voter"?
Here’s an exchange that took place: our Trumpkin was gloating about the repeal of Obamacare, and then announces that I’m gonna be fine because he’s insured…through the Affordable Care Act.
I didn't think so.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:02 PM on January 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
Here’s an exchange that took place: our Trumpkin was gloating about the repeal of Obamacare, and then announces that I’m gonna be fine because he’s insured…through the Affordable Care Act.
I didn't think so.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:02 PM on January 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
I'd love for democrats to freak out and filibuster and act like this is the fucking emergency it is, but will they?
Chuck Schumer is minority leader. So no.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:26 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Chuck Schumer is minority leader. So no.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:26 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
On Trump and reading: I am pretty sure Trump can read even complex things adequately. I am also pretty sure it is painful for him and he doesn't like doing it.
About twenty years ago I had a conversation with a coworker, who was at the time the comptroller of our small company. She was quite competent and successful, and had no trouble dealing with the documents she had to evaluate. But in our casual conversations, one day she revealed that she hated reading, because it was such a chore. She was in her early forties at that time and she said that she had to consciously evaluate every word to determine its meaning and then string them together to figure out what a sentence meant.
When I told her that for me reading was like effortlessly hearing a narrator's voice in my head -- it is literally impossible for me to glance at text and not have this happen -- she was astonished and bewildered. I think she really didn't believe me. And I found it a bit hard to understand how she got that way. But when I hear that Trump has never read a novel and has avoided reading as much as possible even though it seems he's capable of doing it when necessary, it's R I think of and her capable but painful reading style.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
About twenty years ago I had a conversation with a coworker, who was at the time the comptroller of our small company. She was quite competent and successful, and had no trouble dealing with the documents she had to evaluate. But in our casual conversations, one day she revealed that she hated reading, because it was such a chore. She was in her early forties at that time and she said that she had to consciously evaluate every word to determine its meaning and then string them together to figure out what a sentence meant.
When I told her that for me reading was like effortlessly hearing a narrator's voice in my head -- it is literally impossible for me to glance at text and not have this happen -- she was astonished and bewildered. I think she really didn't believe me. And I found it a bit hard to understand how she got that way. But when I hear that Trump has never read a novel and has avoided reading as much as possible even though it seems he's capable of doing it when necessary, it's R I think of and her capable but painful reading style.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
Harris was a big part of the multistate subprime settlement, which was a huge sop to the banks. She's better on other issues, but don't confuse her with Warren.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The ultimate kick to liberals would be for Sessions to come in and prosecute bank executives after the next inevitable crash. Reelection assured.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:43 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:43 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
My bet's on Schumer playing a "You break it, you bought it" hand, and Republicans saying, "Yes, that's exactly what we did."
posted by perspicio at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by perspicio at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, the Senate Democrats needed to replace Harry "the coward" Reid, which is great because that dude was born kneeling, and they had a huge field of fighters to pick from. So instead they picked Chuck Schumer.
And, well, he's not awful. Even as much of a wild eyed far left capital "L" Liberal won't say he's awful. But he's not the guy you call to help out in a street fight, and that's what we need right now.
He's also completely, 100%, a creature of the banks and Wall Street, but if the man could fight I'd put that complaint aside. But he can't. And he's got the same urge to fuck shit up in the Middle East that the Republicans do, so he'll certainly never help us stop Trump's invasion of [insert random Muslim nation here, probably Iran].
Of all the stuff that makes me fear the D's will fold, and fold, and fold, when facing the Republicans I put Chuck Schumer and his submissive attitude towards Republicans even higher on the list than the blatant DINO types. He's nominally on our side, but not really in a lot of key areas, and he doesn't have the soul of a knife fighter. That's what we need right now, a knife fighter.
posted by sotonohito at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
And, well, he's not awful. Even as much of a wild eyed far left capital "L" Liberal won't say he's awful. But he's not the guy you call to help out in a street fight, and that's what we need right now.
He's also completely, 100%, a creature of the banks and Wall Street, but if the man could fight I'd put that complaint aside. But he can't. And he's got the same urge to fuck shit up in the Middle East that the Republicans do, so he'll certainly never help us stop Trump's invasion of [insert random Muslim nation here, probably Iran].
Of all the stuff that makes me fear the D's will fold, and fold, and fold, when facing the Republicans I put Chuck Schumer and his submissive attitude towards Republicans even higher on the list than the blatant DINO types. He's nominally on our side, but not really in a lot of key areas, and he doesn't have the soul of a knife fighter. That's what we need right now, a knife fighter.
posted by sotonohito at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
As far as Trump and reading goes, I'm standing by my prediction that he's in the early stages of some form of dementia, maybe Alzheimer's, maybe something else. Seriously, look at him from his videos and interviews back in the 1990's. He was a jerkass, sure, a guy who might as well have a sign that says "narcissist ego maniac", but he was capable of forming coherent sentences.
Today he isn't.
I really, truly, no snark, do think the Republicans have done it again and elected a president who is suffering from the early stages of dementia. First Reagan, now Trump.
Like Reagan, I'm sure Trump was plenty stupid before he started suffering age related mental degradation, and that might help hide his decline. But just wait, a few years after he's out of office it'll be leaked that he's been suffering from some sort of dementia for years.
posted by sotonohito at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Today he isn't.
I really, truly, no snark, do think the Republicans have done it again and elected a president who is suffering from the early stages of dementia. First Reagan, now Trump.
Like Reagan, I'm sure Trump was plenty stupid before he started suffering age related mental degradation, and that might help hide his decline. But just wait, a few years after he's out of office it'll be leaked that he's been suffering from some sort of dementia for years.
posted by sotonohito at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
This all kind of smacks of the "Hillary has Parkinson's!" nonsense from before the election. No one here is the man's doctor or capable of diagnosing him via television.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even if you're right, sotonohito, reading is one of those things not generally affected by dementia until it gets very, very bad. Skills and memories you acquire early in life are the last ones you lose. So if Trump is 70 and it's a painful chore for him to read, it's been a painful chore for him to read his entire life. And really, if you look at how he's comported himself, it's pretty obvious that reading is a thing he's never done unless absolutely necessary.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump hires an anti-birth control policy adviser
posted by adamvasco at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I quoted this from a blog post earlier:
Republicans will be in control, but they'll continue to insist that they're the rebels, they're the outsiders
And now: you've got to be shitting me, NYT. (via)
Just kill me now.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Republicans will be in control, but they'll continue to insist that they're the rebels, they're the outsiders
And now: you've got to be shitting me, NYT. (via)
Just kill me now.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
When I told her that for me reading was like effortlessly hearing a narrator's voice in my head -- it is literally impossible for me to glance at text and not have this happen -- she was astonished and bewildered. I think she really didn't believe me. And I found it a bit hard to understand how she got that way.
What do you mean "got that way"? That implies agency or accident. What you've described is a disability, something that was impossible for your coworker to deliberately acquire or avoid.
That's the only thing that opens up one shred of possibility of sympathy for Trump. He clearly displays problems in processing language and maintaining attention. Has he had these problems his whole life? If so, I can't imagine Fred Trump was at all sympathetic to any of his son's struggles—though Fred's wealth and Donald's grift have provided ample insulation from consequences.
Or should we see his inattention and inability to express coherent thoughts as signs of cognitive decline?
Either way, he's a monstrosity and a catastrophe. See you in DC on the 21st!
posted by dogrose at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
What do you mean "got that way"? That implies agency or accident. What you've described is a disability, something that was impossible for your coworker to deliberately acquire or avoid.
That's the only thing that opens up one shred of possibility of sympathy for Trump. He clearly displays problems in processing language and maintaining attention. Has he had these problems his whole life? If so, I can't imagine Fred Trump was at all sympathetic to any of his son's struggles—though Fred's wealth and Donald's grift have provided ample insulation from consequences.
Or should we see his inattention and inability to express coherent thoughts as signs of cognitive decline?
Either way, he's a monstrosity and a catastrophe. See you in DC on the 21st!
posted by dogrose at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I agree that Trump probably has cognitive issues and is deeply incurious about reading, but I also think it's more than possible that he has poor eyesight -- not at all unlikely in a person his age -- and is much too vain to wear glasses.
That's why he has trouble with the teleprompter -- because he has to squint at it. Look at his default expression, which is with his eyes all squeezed up. That's what I do when I'm trying to focus on something and don't have my specs on.
posted by vickyverky at 4:51 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's why he has trouble with the teleprompter -- because he has to squint at it. Look at his default expression, which is with his eyes all squeezed up. That's what I do when I'm trying to focus on something and don't have my specs on.
posted by vickyverky at 4:51 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ted Cruz meets Taiwan president and fires his own broadside at China
Texas senator Ted Cruz and governor Greg Abbott said they met Taiwan president Tsai Ing-wen on Sunday, while she was passing through Texas on her way to diplomatic stops in Central America.
Cruz said China’s consulate had asked, in “a curious letter”, that the Houston congressional delegation “uphold the ‘One-China policy’” and not meet the Taiwanese leader.
...“The People’s Republic of China needs to understand that in America we make decisions about meeting with visitors for ourselves,” Cruz said in a statement on Sunday.
“This is not about the PRC. This is about the US relationship with Taiwan, an ally we are legally bound to defend. The Chinese do not give us veto power over those with whom they meet. We will continue to meet with anyone, including the Taiwanese, as we see fit.”
wtf cruz.
posted by futz at 4:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Texas senator Ted Cruz and governor Greg Abbott said they met Taiwan president Tsai Ing-wen on Sunday, while she was passing through Texas on her way to diplomatic stops in Central America.
Cruz said China’s consulate had asked, in “a curious letter”, that the Houston congressional delegation “uphold the ‘One-China policy’” and not meet the Taiwanese leader.
...“The People’s Republic of China needs to understand that in America we make decisions about meeting with visitors for ourselves,” Cruz said in a statement on Sunday.
“This is not about the PRC. This is about the US relationship with Taiwan, an ally we are legally bound to defend. The Chinese do not give us veto power over those with whom they meet. We will continue to meet with anyone, including the Taiwanese, as we see fit.”
wtf cruz.
posted by futz at 4:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Doesn't the president have to, at some point, be examined by a doctor at Walter Reed? I don't know if there is anything that would disqualify him.
posted by SillyShepherd at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by SillyShepherd at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
“This is not about the PRC. This is about the US relationship with Taiwan, an ally we are legally bound to defend.
What does this mean?
posted by Jalliah at 4:57 PM on January 8, 2017
Someone should tell Cruz that the Taiwan Relations Act is only for self defense not deliberately pissing off and goading the Chinese.
posted by Talez at 5:01 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:01 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
What does this mean?
It means those guys are deliberately trying to give me mushroom-cloud themed nightmares. I mean, I get that some people are really hyped to meet their god, but I've never understood the impulse to bring a crowd. Doesn't that just mean there'll be a line?
posted by mordax at 5:03 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
It means those guys are deliberately trying to give me mushroom-cloud themed nightmares. I mean, I get that some people are really hyped to meet their god, but I've never understood the impulse to bring a crowd. Doesn't that just mean there'll be a line?
posted by mordax at 5:03 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
“This is not about the PRC. This is about the US relationship with TaiwanGood grief. I kind of hope that they don't respond until after Donald is sworn in, but then I kinda hope not since someone competent can deal with it. But who am I kidding, the incoming mess is going to keep antagonizing China.
Don't poke at the pandas. Sure, they look kind of ridiculous but they can mess you up! They just haven't felt the need to, yet.
posted by porpoise at 5:03 PM on January 8, 2017
No one here is the man's doctor or capable of diagnosing him via television.
Well, it's a matter of degree, isn't it? I remember seeing late term Reagan on TV and I was still just a teenager, and it was clear to me that he was not right in his mind. Of course only after the fact, when he was already out of the White House, did they admit to his ongoing mental degeneration. (of course, he was always sharp as a tack while in office!)
We all have life experience, and have met people fully compos mentis as well as those in some state of losing it, be it Alzheimer's or dementia or whatever. It's true that we cannot give an accurate clinical diagnosis, but let's not pretend that we don't see what we see. The guy is losing it.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Well, it's a matter of degree, isn't it? I remember seeing late term Reagan on TV and I was still just a teenager, and it was clear to me that he was not right in his mind. Of course only after the fact, when he was already out of the White House, did they admit to his ongoing mental degeneration. (of course, he was always sharp as a tack while in office!)
We all have life experience, and have met people fully compos mentis as well as those in some state of losing it, be it Alzheimer's or dementia or whatever. It's true that we cannot give an accurate clinical diagnosis, but let's not pretend that we don't see what we see. The guy is losing it.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
It's true that we cannot give an accurate clinical diagnosis, but let's not pretend that we don't see what we see. The guy is losing it.
Also, Hillary Clinton released a full physical. Donald Trump released a hastily scrawled note from a doctor who is probably his drug dealer, proclaiming him to be basically Captain America.
We have no basis to offer Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt about his health or mental acuity. On the contrary, all the evidence we do have shows that he used to be sharper than he is now: he spoke in sentences and everything, and now he doesn't. Being worried about it is prudent, not conspiratorial.
posted by mordax at 5:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [56 favorites]
Also, Hillary Clinton released a full physical. Donald Trump released a hastily scrawled note from a doctor who is probably his drug dealer, proclaiming him to be basically Captain America.
We have no basis to offer Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt about his health or mental acuity. On the contrary, all the evidence we do have shows that he used to be sharper than he is now: he spoke in sentences and everything, and now he doesn't. Being worried about it is prudent, not conspiratorial.
posted by mordax at 5:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [56 favorites]
Welp I'm thinking that it's probably a good time to revisit the course in Mandarin I took years ago. Looking like it's going to be a lot more useful in this new future we're in for.
posted by Jalliah at 5:18 PM on January 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's what I see when I try to armchair diagnose him. I see my mother, who has for her entire life had an untreated personality disorder in the same axis as Narcissistic and Borderline. As she entered late middle age, a lot of the more overt abusive behavior (screaming, physical abuse, skilled gaslighting and manipulation) kind of faded away, and her intellect and overall capacity have progressively dulled. She still lacks empathy and still attempts to manipulate as before but she has less focus and less intensity. Less agency, really.
This is something I've heard anecdotally in other cases: that older people with certain personality disorders will often have a sort of decline in apparent cognition and a dulled affect, without really qualifying for dementia. Older people with similar disorders are often considered to become less harmful to other people they have relationships with, if they reach an old enough age without self-destructing.
I don't know if the "less harmful" part applies to presidents as much as it does to parents, though. Probably not. Wouldn't want my mom's finger on the button.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:19 PM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is something I've heard anecdotally in other cases: that older people with certain personality disorders will often have a sort of decline in apparent cognition and a dulled affect, without really qualifying for dementia. Older people with similar disorders are often considered to become less harmful to other people they have relationships with, if they reach an old enough age without self-destructing.
I don't know if the "less harmful" part applies to presidents as much as it does to parents, though. Probably not. Wouldn't want my mom's finger on the button.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:19 PM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's generally bad form to publicly diagnose people because their health is none of your business; it's for them and their family; if you're personally affected you may have a quiet word with them or others to shield yourself from the effects, but there's no reason to raise the issue publicly.
That reasoning doesn't apply here: we all (even me!) are affected by the health of the POTUS; we have no way to quietly communicate with him or have reason to think he would listen; raising the issue publicly is the only thing that can be done.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
That reasoning doesn't apply here: we all (even me!) are affected by the health of the POTUS; we have no way to quietly communicate with him or have reason to think he would listen; raising the issue publicly is the only thing that can be done.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Donald's mental health - there's a reason that ethical medical professionals are not making on-record statements regarding their assessment of the PEOTUS's health has roots in The Goldwater rule.
Non professionals can make all the inferences they want, but it's not a thing to do as a professional.
posted by porpoise at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Non professionals can make all the inferences they want, but it's not a thing to do as a professional.
posted by porpoise at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The thing is, if he's an empty shell that struggles to read a teleprompter, that leaves Steve Bannon as the real power behind the "Donald Trump" persona. How do we know it's really Trump with the Android phone, and if at some point "Donald Trump" becomes Steve Bannon, or essentially a Trump shaped vessel for Bannon's words...well, we've got President Steve Bannon.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Regarding T. Rump's decline, I go back to his 2000 op-ed in the New York Times about his flirtation with the Reform Party (which, to be fair, was likely part-ghost-written), which contains such passages as:
I also saw the underside of the Reform Party. The fringe element that wanted to repeal the federal income tax, believed that the country was being run by the Trilateral Commission…
When I held a reception for Reform Party leaders in California, the room was crowded with Elvis look-alikes, resplendent in various campaign buttons and anxious to give me a pamphlet explaining the Swiss-Zionist conspiracy to control America.
Although I am totally comfortable with the people in the New York Independence Party, I leave the Reform Party to David Duke, Pat Buchanan and Lenora Fulani. That is not company I wish to keep.
So what happened in the intervening 15 years? Did he just become more racist/crazy? Was he always this racist/crazy, but does he now have fewer filters telling him that such things are unacceptable? Or was he always this racist/crazy, and does he now feel that the climate is more ripe for it?
posted by dhens at 5:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
I also saw the underside of the Reform Party. The fringe element that wanted to repeal the federal income tax, believed that the country was being run by the Trilateral Commission…
When I held a reception for Reform Party leaders in California, the room was crowded with Elvis look-alikes, resplendent in various campaign buttons and anxious to give me a pamphlet explaining the Swiss-Zionist conspiracy to control America.
Although I am totally comfortable with the people in the New York Independence Party, I leave the Reform Party to David Duke, Pat Buchanan and Lenora Fulani. That is not company I wish to keep.
So what happened in the intervening 15 years? Did he just become more racist/crazy? Was he always this racist/crazy, but does he now have fewer filters telling him that such things are unacceptable? Or was he always this racist/crazy, and does he now feel that the climate is more ripe for it?
posted by dhens at 5:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
if he's an empty shell
That was always ever the case. Puppeteered by Putin or Bannon - it'll be interesting when they start pulling in different directions.
My sincerest wish, now, is that Doland has enough self awareness to acknowledge (to himself) that he's a puppet ("you're the PUPPET!") and truly a fake who was helped by the skullduggery of someone he already owes a huge debt to.
posted by porpoise at 5:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was always ever the case. Puppeteered by Putin or Bannon - it'll be interesting when they start pulling in different directions.
My sincerest wish, now, is that Doland has enough self awareness to acknowledge (to himself) that he's a puppet ("you're the PUPPET!") and truly a fake who was helped by the skullduggery of someone he already owes a huge debt to.
posted by porpoise at 5:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
indian affairs...
welp. that did it. i was hanging on up until that little gem broke my brain. bizarre and ugly stuff going on...
posted by j_curiouser at 5:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
welp. that did it. i was hanging on up until that little gem broke my brain. bizarre and ugly stuff going on...
posted by j_curiouser at 5:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nothing in my above comment should be seen as minimizing his long record of abusiveness toward women and some of his other terrible behaviors, which long predate 2000.
posted by dhens at 5:29 PM on January 8, 2017
posted by dhens at 5:29 PM on January 8, 2017
The thing is, if he's an empty shell that struggles to read a teleprompter, that leaves Steve Bannon as the real power behind the "Donald Trump" persona. How do we know it's really Trump with the Android phone, and if at some point "Donald Trump" becomes Steve Bannon, or essentially a Trump shaped vessel for Bannon's words...well, we've got President Steve Bannon.
edited I need to rewrite this post because it keeps getting all messed up.....
posted by Jalliah at 5:35 PM on January 8, 2017
edited I need to rewrite this post because it keeps getting all messed up.....
posted by Jalliah at 5:35 PM on January 8, 2017
I was watching a live feed when he gave his first constructed "globalist conspiracy" speech to some small select crowd in the South somewhere. A few minutes before it was scheduled to begin I saw Bannon run out from behind the curtain and then back a moment later. It was definitely him and he was on a mission; doing that head-forward running walk that Riker did on ST:TNG, papers in his hand, a confident little smile on his face.
Dude was running the show. Any time you hear Trump give a speech with complete sentences that sounds like Hitler wrote it, you are listening to Bannon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:39 PM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
Dude was running the show. Any time you hear Trump give a speech with complete sentences that sounds like Hitler wrote it, you are listening to Bannon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:39 PM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
So what happened in the intervening 15 years? Did he just become more racist/crazy?
ya gotta go to where the voters are.
well, 25.5% of them at least.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 5:40 PM on January 8, 2017
ya gotta go to where the voters are.
well, 25.5% of them at least.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 5:40 PM on January 8, 2017
(So sorry. I don't know what happened when I was writing this and couldn't get it fixed inside the edit window.)
The thing is, if he's an empty shell that struggles to read a teleprompter, that leaves Steve Bannon as the real power behind the "Donald Trump" persona. How do we know it's really Trump with the Android phone, and if at some point "Donald Trump" becomes Steve Bannon, or essentially a Trump shaped vessel for Bannon's words...well, we've got President Steve Bannon.
I'm surprised that this isn't already a conclusion and a something to even speculate about. You do. At least partially. Compare his teleprompter speeches pre and post Bannon. It's obvious. He also got more and more 'Bannon' near the end of the election. His speeches sounded like things Bannon has said before. Remember that bizzare ad that talked about international bankers and flashed pictures of banking elites (all Jewish) basically full of anti-semetic dogwhistles? That was most definitely Bannon.
With Trump it will be figuring out who he's going with because he has shown how easily he changes his tune depending of who he's recently spent time with. Or it will be some combination mashup because Donald recently spent time listening to them all arguing about something.
It's going to be 'so is this President Bannon, Kushner, Priebus, Flynn or I Trump talking right now?" Or is it some globbed together mess from the different Presidents? I think that's why some of his answers on issues seem so incoherent at times, he's literally just mushing together different points of debate his people have tried to convince him of and even if they've come to some decision at the end of what it's going to be he can't keep it straight. Then they and people like Conway swoop in to 'clarify' what he was supposed to say and tell us how we're just to stupid to understand him so here is the dumbed down version for all of the plebs.
posted by Jalliah at 5:42 PM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
It really is going to be a combination of Kremlinlogy and gerontology from hereon in, isn't it?
posted by Devonian at 6:03 PM on January 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 6:03 PM on January 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
gremlintology
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
I assume we're not going to get a SOTU for four years.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:13 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient;Just sayin'.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:13 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
So basically we're fighting a Flynn-Bannon-Putin-Priebus-Kushner-Trump hydra. That's a different prospect than fighting just Trump.
I'd say, small as it is, our best chance is if the "heads" develop different priorities or goals at some point and argue with each other about what is best for the whole, or other infighting gets in their way.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:15 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd say, small as it is, our best chance is if the "heads" develop different priorities or goals at some point and argue with each other about what is best for the whole, or other infighting gets in their way.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:15 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republicans forfeited all claims to outrage over delay/obstruction tactics.
Huh? It's politics. Claim all the outrage you want, the idiot media will report it without comment. I wish the Democrats were better at claiming outrage.
I feel like at the end of the day, Democrats' problem is that they want to be liked. Republicans just want to get shit done -- and it's not generally stuff that you or I want to have happen.
posted by Slothrup at 6:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Huh? It's politics. Claim all the outrage you want, the idiot media will report it without comment. I wish the Democrats were better at claiming outrage.
I feel like at the end of the day, Democrats' problem is that they want to be liked. Republicans just want to get shit done -- and it's not generally stuff that you or I want to have happen.
posted by Slothrup at 6:25 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hugh Laurie, everyone:
"Thank you first to the Hollywood Foreign Press Association for this amazing honor. I suppose it’s made more amazing by the fact that I’ll be able to say I won this at the last ever Golden Globes…I don’t mean to be gloomy, it’s just that it has the words Hollywood, Foreign and Press in the title."posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on January 8, 2017 [64 favorites]
He also noted that “to some Republicans, even the word association is slightly sketchy.”
Laurie then accepted the award “on behalf of psychopathic billionaires everywhere.”
To be honest, I'm still struggling to understand the appeal to ordinary people of the kind of neofascism that's cropping up in Europe and as represented by Trump here.
Fascism is an incredibly ugly form of government with historically ugly results for the countries and people who've adopted it. France was occupied by Nazi Germany less than a hundred years ago. Fascism literally tore Germany apart. This is probably naivete but I sincerely don't understand why anyone would look at fascism and think it's a perfectly good form of government that needs another run-around.
And these people wouldn't win without the help of ordinary people in their countries. Their core army of supporters wouldn't be enough. Something they're doing is appealing to people off the street. If we're going to stop it, we need to educate people about what they're really voting for and counteract misinformation about immigrants (I've seen seemingly reasonable people cite the "mass rapes by refugees" meme to me).
We had fascist sympathizers of our own in the first rise of fascism (Lindbergh, Coughlin) but they failed. So why are they being successful now?
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Fascism is an incredibly ugly form of government with historically ugly results for the countries and people who've adopted it. France was occupied by Nazi Germany less than a hundred years ago. Fascism literally tore Germany apart. This is probably naivete but I sincerely don't understand why anyone would look at fascism and think it's a perfectly good form of government that needs another run-around.
And these people wouldn't win without the help of ordinary people in their countries. Their core army of supporters wouldn't be enough. Something they're doing is appealing to people off the street. If we're going to stop it, we need to educate people about what they're really voting for and counteract misinformation about immigrants (I've seen seemingly reasonable people cite the "mass rapes by refugees" meme to me).
We had fascist sympathizers of our own in the first rise of fascism (Lindbergh, Coughlin) but they failed. So why are they being successful now?
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
State-run Chinese tabloid Global Times sounded a warning to U.S. President-elect Donald Trump on Sunday only hours after Taiwan's president transited Houston, saying that China would seek to "take revenge" should Trump renege on the one-China policy.
-- The Global Times said Beijing did not need to feel grateful to Trump for not meeting Tsai, but added: "If Trump reneges on the one-China policy after taking office, the Chinese people will demand the government to take revenge. There is no room for bargaining."
-- The Global Times, whose stance does not equate with government policy, also targeted Tsai in the editorial, saying that the mainland would likely impose further military pressure on Taiwan, warning that "Tsai needs to face the consequences for every provocative step she takes".
"The mainland should mobilize all possible measures to squeeze Taiwan's diplomacy as well as deal a heavy blow to Taiwan's economy," it said.
"It should also impose military pressure on Taiwan and push it to the edge of being reunified by force, so as to effectively affect the approval rating of the Tsai administration."
Donnie, take notice, these are not idle threats.
posted by futz at 6:40 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
-- The Global Times said Beijing did not need to feel grateful to Trump for not meeting Tsai, but added: "If Trump reneges on the one-China policy after taking office, the Chinese people will demand the government to take revenge. There is no room for bargaining."
-- The Global Times, whose stance does not equate with government policy, also targeted Tsai in the editorial, saying that the mainland would likely impose further military pressure on Taiwan, warning that "Tsai needs to face the consequences for every provocative step she takes".
"The mainland should mobilize all possible measures to squeeze Taiwan's diplomacy as well as deal a heavy blow to Taiwan's economy," it said.
"It should also impose military pressure on Taiwan and push it to the edge of being reunified by force, so as to effectively affect the approval rating of the Tsai administration."
Donnie, take notice, these are not idle threats.
posted by futz at 6:40 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
If Trump were just garden variety kleptocrat following the standard Republican playbook I'd feel more comfortable.
The reality is that the modern Republican party isn't particularly beholden to any set of principles. Sure it's opposed to budget deficits under a Democratic President but second a Republican gets into the office it's Tax Cuts + Government spending. It's just that their supporters want different forms of government spending than the Democrats.
Tax cuts
Regulatory Capture
Steering Government contracts to friends and family
Punitive approaches to Minorities and Women
That's pretty much the entire Republican playbook and honestly most of the social regressive stuff is primarily in there to rally the base voter.
Trump looks to be even more focused on kleptocracy that Dubya and Cheney (who clearly was not a true believer in Social Conservatism despite all the attempts to look that way). The problem is more that he seems completely unstable and largely incapable of serving out a four year term (for health or other reason) and the guys behind him in line (Pence and Ryan) appear to actually be true believers.
The Republican domestic agenda is largely going to be focused on passing tax cuts. Keep in mind that the primary reason Republicans want to repeal ACA is because doing so is an effective tax cut for the 1%. If they can fuck with liberals they'll try that as well.
Trump and foreign affairs seems to be the biggest wildcard.
I wouldn't be shocked about Putin trying to annex the Baltic states basically as a way to show that the US under Trump is unable/unwilling to intervene to protect European security and that the EU is incapable of defending it's Eastern European member states. Showing the world that the EU and the US are weak makes Russia look strong (even though they aren't) and that helps Putin out.
Iran would obviously be the other big candidate for a flashpoint. Various US allies like Israel and Saudi Arabia would like the influence of Iran to be constrained. Other petrostates like Russia would also arguably benefit from increased prices due to Iran's production being impacted. Companies like Exxon would no doubt like to negotiate with a new Iranian regime. In general it's something various players will no doubt push for but it's really unclear whether the US electorate would actually support it without some sort of lame justification.
Trump of course seems like a Bull in a China shop so his ability to actually manage a complicated foreign policy stance seems nonexistent. Is there really any question as to why the Kremlin vastly preferred the Donald over Hillary.
posted by vuron at 6:41 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The reality is that the modern Republican party isn't particularly beholden to any set of principles. Sure it's opposed to budget deficits under a Democratic President but second a Republican gets into the office it's Tax Cuts + Government spending. It's just that their supporters want different forms of government spending than the Democrats.
Tax cuts
Regulatory Capture
Steering Government contracts to friends and family
Punitive approaches to Minorities and Women
That's pretty much the entire Republican playbook and honestly most of the social regressive stuff is primarily in there to rally the base voter.
Trump looks to be even more focused on kleptocracy that Dubya and Cheney (who clearly was not a true believer in Social Conservatism despite all the attempts to look that way). The problem is more that he seems completely unstable and largely incapable of serving out a four year term (for health or other reason) and the guys behind him in line (Pence and Ryan) appear to actually be true believers.
The Republican domestic agenda is largely going to be focused on passing tax cuts. Keep in mind that the primary reason Republicans want to repeal ACA is because doing so is an effective tax cut for the 1%. If they can fuck with liberals they'll try that as well.
Trump and foreign affairs seems to be the biggest wildcard.
I wouldn't be shocked about Putin trying to annex the Baltic states basically as a way to show that the US under Trump is unable/unwilling to intervene to protect European security and that the EU is incapable of defending it's Eastern European member states. Showing the world that the EU and the US are weak makes Russia look strong (even though they aren't) and that helps Putin out.
Iran would obviously be the other big candidate for a flashpoint. Various US allies like Israel and Saudi Arabia would like the influence of Iran to be constrained. Other petrostates like Russia would also arguably benefit from increased prices due to Iran's production being impacted. Companies like Exxon would no doubt like to negotiate with a new Iranian regime. In general it's something various players will no doubt push for but it's really unclear whether the US electorate would actually support it without some sort of lame justification.
Trump of course seems like a Bull in a China shop so his ability to actually manage a complicated foreign policy stance seems nonexistent. Is there really any question as to why the Kremlin vastly preferred the Donald over Hillary.
posted by vuron at 6:41 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
So why are they being successful now?
those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
posted by entropicamericana at 6:43 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
posted by entropicamericana at 6:43 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also ignorance: most Americans don't know how to recognize fascism, so they don't realize that's what this is.
posted by Superplin at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Journalist Says Steve Bannon Had A 'Years-Long Plan' To Take Down Hillary Clinton
The journalists talking to McConnellshould be quoting his own words after Obama'a election back at him. suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!
Why would I regularly turn to a major news outlet again?
posted by petebest at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The journalists talking to McConnell
Why would I regularly turn to a major news outlet again?
posted by petebest at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fascism is an incredibly ugly form of government with historically ugly results for the countries and people who've adopted it. France was occupied by Nazi Germany less than a hundred years ago. Fascism literally tore Germany apart. This is probably naivete but I sincerely don't understand why anyone would look at fascism and think it's a perfectly good form of government that needs another run-around.
Because many people don't see it as fascism or see the fascism. That's why you get people that will say of course fascism and people like Nazi are bad but this (policy, words, way of thinking) is not fascism it's just common sense or the right thing to do based on facts!
It's not recognized and label as fascism.
posted by Jalliah at 6:50 PM on January 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, personally assured skittish acquaintances the President-elect didn't really believe some of the more outrageous claims he was making, according to a new New York magazine profile.
"Back when Trump was spinning birther conspiracy theories, which were lapped up by gullible Republicans, one person who talked to Kushner says he offered assurances that his father-in-law didn't really believe that stuff," the report says.
..."People say (Trump) is unhinged," Kushner told an associate, per the report. "I think he unhinged everyone else."
posted by futz at 6:57 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Back when Trump was spinning birther conspiracy theories, which were lapped up by gullible Republicans, one person who talked to Kushner says he offered assurances that his father-in-law didn't really believe that stuff," the report says.
..."People say (Trump) is unhinged," Kushner told an associate, per the report. "I think he unhinged everyone else."
posted by futz at 6:57 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Fascism rises it's ugly head in response to periods of profound socio-economic upheaval.
Yes what we've experienced over the last decade is nothing in comparison the great depression but large percentages of the US and European electorates seem to be uncomfortable with the status quo of the post-war neo-liberal consensus especially in light of what appears to be the first wave of massive population migrations related to the impacts of global warming.
People are uncertain of the future and their place in it and fascism promises easy answers. Just give loyalty to the leader and everything will be alright. Of course it's pure nonsense but easy answers even false answers are often preferred to difficult answers.
The rise of nationalist far-right forces in Europe seem to be largely built around fears that people's current standard of living in Western Europe will plummet under a big influx of immigrants. The EU is seen as being pro-immigrant and thus you have the desire to undo the super-national forces driving the EU. The interesting this is of course these fascist nationalist parties have a "friend" in the form of the Kremlin because a weak EU strengthens the Russian position in world affairs.
The US far right is also motivated by nationalist sentiment and scapegoating of minorities but instead of fueling the rise of new parties it simply seems to be strengthening the "conservative" branch of the ruling duopoly. I guess that's also happening in the UK in that Labour seems completely incapable of effectively challenging the Tories just like the Democrats seem largely incapable of stopping the Republican agenda.
posted by vuron at 6:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yes what we've experienced over the last decade is nothing in comparison the great depression but large percentages of the US and European electorates seem to be uncomfortable with the status quo of the post-war neo-liberal consensus especially in light of what appears to be the first wave of massive population migrations related to the impacts of global warming.
People are uncertain of the future and their place in it and fascism promises easy answers. Just give loyalty to the leader and everything will be alright. Of course it's pure nonsense but easy answers even false answers are often preferred to difficult answers.
The rise of nationalist far-right forces in Europe seem to be largely built around fears that people's current standard of living in Western Europe will plummet under a big influx of immigrants. The EU is seen as being pro-immigrant and thus you have the desire to undo the super-national forces driving the EU. The interesting this is of course these fascist nationalist parties have a "friend" in the form of the Kremlin because a weak EU strengthens the Russian position in world affairs.
The US far right is also motivated by nationalist sentiment and scapegoating of minorities but instead of fueling the rise of new parties it simply seems to be strengthening the "conservative" branch of the ruling duopoly. I guess that's also happening in the UK in that Labour seems completely incapable of effectively challenging the Tories just like the Democrats seem largely incapable of stopping the Republican agenda.
posted by vuron at 6:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
How would we go about counteracting this in Europe, though? I mean, defeatism is very tempting right now, and things do look bleak, but these neofascists are neither invincible nor unstoppable. Le Pen isn't elected yet. There's still some hope.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mark It Down: GOPers Claim No One Will Lose Coverage With O'care Replacement
As Republicans gear up to repeal Obamacare, a few top leaders have laid down a marker that will almost certainly be impossible to achieve: They claims their Obamacare replacement plan will cover everyone Obamacare currently covers.posted by kirkaracha at 7:14 PM on January 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's an ambitious promise to make and one they may come to regret.
Because fascism mutates to what it can feed off, it's also not that much of a stretch to suggest large parts of the United States had fascistic state governments until they were (somewhat) liberated by the federal government in the post-war decades. What's the ongoing ideal of the dixieflaggers if it's not a Herrenvolk political settlement?
posted by holgate at 7:21 PM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by holgate at 7:21 PM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trumpcare covers everyone, but it turns out we can't afford it because OBAMA lied about deficit - sad!
THANKS OBAMA!
posted by benzenedream at 7:22 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
THANKS OBAMA!
posted by benzenedream at 7:22 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Cheri Jacobus tweeted today that her email was hacked before a story a Trump story. The kicker: "the universe of ppl who knew the article was coming was very small. After team Trump was informed, I was hacked, BEFORE it was published."
Tweets don't seem to link sensibly, so here they are in order:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:22 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Tweets don't seem to link sensibly, so here they are in order:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:22 PM on January 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Christ. Granted, I didn't think too much of Politico before now, but now I'm furious that they ratted on Jacobs to Trump's people like that. What they did to Farenthold is evidence enough that they're incredibly vicious to journalists who criticize them, and they put her in danger.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:27 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:27 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well the European left seems unwilling to put aside differences between the center-left and the far left in the common good much like some of the far left in the US have decided that they can no longer support the Democrats. Purity is perceived as better than pragmatism by some on the left. Perhaps they are tired of being taken for granted and the accelerationist viewpoint is correct in the belief that there will be a resurgence of of the left after the fascists fuck shit up for a few years.
I think the other force at play is that the "working class" sees the parties on the left as being hostile to their interests. Pro-immigration center-left parties are seen as favoring immigrants that "take the jobs" of the deserving working class. Thus right-wing parties are able to masquerade as being pro-worker even though most of their economic and social policy would be incredibly regressive if actually implemented.
The right has been able to portray themselves as being pro-labor and many of the parties on the left have been largely unwilling to challenge that claim in the US and in Europe. This seems to translate into weakness within center-left parties and a fracturing of the alliances that are sometimes possible when the center-left and the left are willing to cooperate.
The rise of the nationalist parties in Western Europe seem to be fueled by distrust of both the center left and the center right parties at least in the nations without first past the post elections. Of course they can't really govern for shit but the major policy goal of these parties isn't so much to govern as to undo the push towards a greater European hegemony under the EU. To a certain degree it also seems to be pushback against the strength of the German position as the dominant force in the EU. The complaints against faceless bureaucrats in Brussels seems to reflect a feeling that the EU is fundamentally setup in a way that reinforces German dominance in European affairs.
posted by vuron at 7:30 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the other force at play is that the "working class" sees the parties on the left as being hostile to their interests. Pro-immigration center-left parties are seen as favoring immigrants that "take the jobs" of the deserving working class. Thus right-wing parties are able to masquerade as being pro-worker even though most of their economic and social policy would be incredibly regressive if actually implemented.
The right has been able to portray themselves as being pro-labor and many of the parties on the left have been largely unwilling to challenge that claim in the US and in Europe. This seems to translate into weakness within center-left parties and a fracturing of the alliances that are sometimes possible when the center-left and the left are willing to cooperate.
The rise of the nationalist parties in Western Europe seem to be fueled by distrust of both the center left and the center right parties at least in the nations without first past the post elections. Of course they can't really govern for shit but the major policy goal of these parties isn't so much to govern as to undo the push towards a greater European hegemony under the EU. To a certain degree it also seems to be pushback against the strength of the German position as the dominant force in the EU. The complaints against faceless bureaucrats in Brussels seems to reflect a feeling that the EU is fundamentally setup in a way that reinforces German dominance in European affairs.
posted by vuron at 7:30 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Christ. Granted, I didn't think too much of Politico before now, but now I'm furious that they ratted on Jacobs to Trump's people like that. What they did to Farenthold is evidence enough that they're incredibly vicious to journalists who criticize them, and they put her in danger.
They need to wake up to the new rules and do some serious digital security upgrades and training for all their people.
posted by Jalliah at 7:31 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
They need to wake up to the new rules and do some serious digital security upgrades and training for all their people.
posted by Jalliah at 7:31 PM on January 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's pretty weird how some people in here are all, "we must oppose and attack Russia at all costs!" but when China comes up, suddenly everyone is very circumspect and talking about how we must respect their wishes in all matters. Both are major nuclear powers, both have aggressive extraterritorial claims, both have a history of state-sponsored hacking against the US, but inexplicably different reactions in the comments.
posted by indubitable at 7:38 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 7:38 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I will very be surprised if all of the Baltic states make it through 2017 un-annexed.
yes, of course i'm watching Occupied and its freakin me out, man.
posted by localhuman at 7:40 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
yes, of course i'm watching Occupied and its freakin me out, man.
posted by localhuman at 7:40 PM on January 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's pretty weird how some people in here are all, "we must oppose and attack Russia at all costs!" but when China comes up, suddenly everyone is very circumspect
Maybe because China didn't just install an insane fascist dictator as the president of our country.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
Maybe because China didn't just install an insane fascist dictator as the president of our country.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2017 [48 favorites]
Did Politico "rat" on Jacobus or just notify them a story was coming that talked about Trump and/or the campaign to ask for comment? The latter is pretty normal.
posted by R343L at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by R343L at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Here's the video of Meryl Streep at the Golden Globes tonight: "So Hollywood is crawling with outsiders and foreigners and if we kick them all out, you'll have nothing to watch but football and mixed martial arts, which are not the arts."
Then she really lets loose, speaking movingly about Trump's mocking of Serge Kovaleski: "Disrespect invites disrespect; violence incites violence."
posted by zachlipton at 7:50 PM on January 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
Then she really lets loose, speaking movingly about Trump's mocking of Serge Kovaleski: "Disrespect invites disrespect; violence incites violence."
posted by zachlipton at 7:50 PM on January 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
It's pretty weird how some people in here are all, "we must oppose and attack Russia at all costs!" but when China comes up, suddenly everyone is very circumspect and talking about how we must respect their wishes in all matters. Both are major nuclear powers, both have aggressive extraterritorial claims, both have a history of state-sponsored hacking against the US, but inexplicably different reactions in the comments.
It's not 'oppose and attack Russia at all costs'. It's Russia has helped put a person in the most powerful position in the world because they want him there. And that likely having this person beholden to Russia to some extent is really not a good thing for the US or the rest of the world.
And yes China has nukes and does all those things which is the exact point. They are not a country that you screw around with willy nilly, especially with regards to one of the main trigger points (Taiwan). Trump and the next admin isn't even in power ffs and he's setting the US (and the world ) up for a major conflict with one of the other nuclear superpowers. And to what end? Because of some idea that it's about bowing down 'respecting wishes'. That has nothing to do with what's going on.
posted by Jalliah at 7:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yes China has some aggressive territorial claims but for the most part they focused on economic and diplomatic power to assert their hegemony over various parts of the world.
In contrast Putin seems more or less determined to restore the territorial boundaries of the USSR and also happy to use military force to achieve those goals.
I think part of this is due to the massive differences in the relative economic standing of China and Russia. Yes China is still very poor in many places but it has massive economic standing in the world. In contrast Russia is basically a petro-state at the current time.
Russia under Putin seems to be particularly aggressive in regards to territorial claims when low commodity prices weaken his position domestically. So sending a small number of Russian divisions to reclaim the Baltic states while oil prices are relatively low could be seen as a positive move for a variety of reasons.
I don't think anyone wants a hot war with Russia but if Putin pushes into the Baltic states it will require a NATO/EU response and that could be really bad. Putin seems to think that the US under Trump will be willing to back down.
Long term of course if it looks like the US will no longer be willing to guarantee the security of NATO and Europe then the likely scenario would be the rearming of various Western European nation states like Germany which the entire post WWII neo-liberal world order has been about avoiding because European nationalism and big armies has been a bad combination.
posted by vuron at 7:53 PM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
In contrast Putin seems more or less determined to restore the territorial boundaries of the USSR and also happy to use military force to achieve those goals.
I think part of this is due to the massive differences in the relative economic standing of China and Russia. Yes China is still very poor in many places but it has massive economic standing in the world. In contrast Russia is basically a petro-state at the current time.
Russia under Putin seems to be particularly aggressive in regards to territorial claims when low commodity prices weaken his position domestically. So sending a small number of Russian divisions to reclaim the Baltic states while oil prices are relatively low could be seen as a positive move for a variety of reasons.
I don't think anyone wants a hot war with Russia but if Putin pushes into the Baltic states it will require a NATO/EU response and that could be really bad. Putin seems to think that the US under Trump will be willing to back down.
Long term of course if it looks like the US will no longer be willing to guarantee the security of NATO and Europe then the likely scenario would be the rearming of various Western European nation states like Germany which the entire post WWII neo-liberal world order has been about avoiding because European nationalism and big armies has been a bad combination.
posted by vuron at 7:53 PM on January 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's pretty weird how some people in here are all, "we must oppose and attack Russia at all costs!" but when China comes up, suddenly everyone is very circumspect and talking about how we must respect their wishes in all matters.
Yea, this is disingenuous. The prevailing sentiment here has been more like, 'Trump is a moron for provoking China for no reason, what is he doing, they have nukes'. No one is suggesting that we "must respect their wishes in all matters". Only that upsetting the status quo with respect to Taiwan because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ seems stupid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yea, this is disingenuous. The prevailing sentiment here has been more like, 'Trump is a moron for provoking China for no reason, what is he doing, they have nukes'. No one is suggesting that we "must respect their wishes in all matters". Only that upsetting the status quo with respect to Taiwan because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ seems stupid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Dishonest media says Mexico won't be paying for the wall if they pay a little later so the wall can be built more quickly. Media is fake!
...goodnight everbody.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Dishonest media says Mexico won't be paying for the wall if they pay a little later so the wall can be built more quickly. Media is fake!
...goodnight everbody.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:07 PM on January 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's pretty weird how some people in here are all, "we must oppose and attack Russia at all costs!" but when China comes up, suddenly everyone is very circumspect
According to Pew in 2015, Republicans are more critical of China on most issues than Democrats. The only issue Democrats are more critical of than Republicans for China is the environment, and I think now that's probably improved slightly since China's made promises to curb climate change and invest in renewables.
posted by FJT at 8:12 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
According to Pew in 2015, Republicans are more critical of China on most issues than Democrats. The only issue Democrats are more critical of than Republicans for China is the environment, and I think now that's probably improved slightly since China's made promises to curb climate change and invest in renewables.
posted by FJT at 8:12 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes China has some aggressive territorial claims but for the most part they focused on economic and diplomatic power to assert their hegemony over various parts of the world.
The working assumption is that China's leadership feels like true superpower status in the 21st century is its rightful (and withheld) inheritance, and would rather gently ease into it than take custodianship of a burning shell of a planet. Whether that's likely is another matter.
posted by holgate at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The working assumption is that China's leadership feels like true superpower status in the 21st century is its rightful (and withheld) inheritance, and would rather gently ease into it than take custodianship of a burning shell of a planet. Whether that's likely is another matter.
posted by holgate at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans are more critical of China on most issues than Democrats
If China had defeated Hilary, Republicans would be changing their minds rapidly on them too. Their real enemy is Democrats, everything else in the world is a very distant afterthought.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:20 PM on January 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
If China had defeated Hilary, Republicans would be changing their minds rapidly on them too. Their real enemy is Democrats, everything else in the world is a very distant afterthought.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:20 PM on January 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
I'd say, small as it is, our best chance is if the "heads" develop different priorities or goals at some point and argue with each other about what is best for the whole, or other infighting gets in their way.
Ah, the Sir Robin vs. the Three-Headed Giant strategy.
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ah, the Sir Robin vs. the Three-Headed Giant strategy.
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's the video of Meryl Streep at the Golden Globes tonight
Holy shit. I already knew she was awesome but dang.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:23 PM on January 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yup, Meryl just fucking killed it tonight. There were a few Trump jokes, little asides, but that speech cut to the bone. I'm sure Trump will be expressing his Twitter outrage at three am again, while astride his porcelain throne.
posted by Ber at 9:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 9:52 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
And just like that, a million deplorables who just elected a politically opinionated celebrity president took to twitter as one to decry celebrities having political opinions.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:54 PM on January 8, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:54 PM on January 8, 2017 [43 favorites]
Also I think we need a phrase to counter "liberal elite." In Grand Metafilter tradition, I propose "conservative overlords" or "conservative masters."
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:03 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:03 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Though I don't welcome them)
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Go Meryl Streep. She owned it.
I know it won't change their minds, but every person who stands up to Trump, celebrities included, is a reminder of their hypocrisy about the First Amendment.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I know it won't change their minds, but every person who stands up to Trump, celebrities included, is a reminder of their hypocrisy about the First Amendment.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:04 PM on January 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Non professionals can make all the inferences they want, but it's not a thing to do as a professional.
This is why I have been saying for over a year that I strongly feel as a FORMER mental health professional, that Donald Trump is experiencing symptoms of dementia. It's both a gut feeling based on listening to him speak and based on the evidence in public view. I have also lived with someone with dementia and watched my grandmother (who was already mentally ill) slowly succumb to it, so I consider I have a good deal of experience. And I can't stop my gut just SCREAMING dementia at me.
I also have a LOT of professional and some personal experience of people with personality disorders, so Trump just sets off a million alarm bells in my head and basically I avoid watching him at all these days because it's so distressing from a professional point of view. Like I have actually had the thought "Someone get that poor, confused, old man away from that microphone."
posted by threeturtles at 10:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
This is why I have been saying for over a year that I strongly feel as a FORMER mental health professional, that Donald Trump is experiencing symptoms of dementia. It's both a gut feeling based on listening to him speak and based on the evidence in public view. I have also lived with someone with dementia and watched my grandmother (who was already mentally ill) slowly succumb to it, so I consider I have a good deal of experience. And I can't stop my gut just SCREAMING dementia at me.
I also have a LOT of professional and some personal experience of people with personality disorders, so Trump just sets off a million alarm bells in my head and basically I avoid watching him at all these days because it's so distressing from a professional point of view. Like I have actually had the thought "Someone get that poor, confused, old man away from that microphone."
posted by threeturtles at 10:09 PM on January 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
holgate:
While I do find Trump's undiplomatic approach towards them unsettling, I do think that people need to more seriously consider China as a threat in its imminent assumption of superpower status.
As a political entity China's monoethnicity terrifies me. More than Russia, more than America, more than any other large, powerful political entity, they have the cultural will to declare themselves as arbiters and guardians of a single internationally distributed demographic. If they gain the confidence, they may begin asserting themselves wherever large Chinese populations lay, including Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc. I'm very afraid of the sort of genocide they could get away with. This is a practice that is not historically unfamiliar to Chinese administrations (there's a reason many Hmong came to live in Vietnam). I don't think it's unlikely that they'd take a disturbingly Imperial Japanese approach to hemispheric ascendancy.
posted by constantinescharity at 10:11 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
While I do find Trump's undiplomatic approach towards them unsettling, I do think that people need to more seriously consider China as a threat in its imminent assumption of superpower status.
As a political entity China's monoethnicity terrifies me. More than Russia, more than America, more than any other large, powerful political entity, they have the cultural will to declare themselves as arbiters and guardians of a single internationally distributed demographic. If they gain the confidence, they may begin asserting themselves wherever large Chinese populations lay, including Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc. I'm very afraid of the sort of genocide they could get away with. This is a practice that is not historically unfamiliar to Chinese administrations (there's a reason many Hmong came to live in Vietnam). I don't think it's unlikely that they'd take a disturbingly Imperial Japanese approach to hemispheric ascendancy.
posted by constantinescharity at 10:11 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump took the time late at night to attack back at Meryl Streep despite claiming he didn't watch. Good to know he'll always pick up the phone for important matters like this as he dodges press conferences.
I do have to ask though, why the article is framed as Trump's response, rather than putting Streep's comments first where they belong. It's a political story, sure, and the breaking news part is his response, I get that, but the focus should be on her words, with his late-night musings second.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 PM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
I do have to ask though, why the article is framed as Trump's response, rather than putting Streep's comments first where they belong. It's a political story, sure, and the breaking news part is his response, I get that, but the focus should be on her words, with his late-night musings second.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 PM on January 8, 2017 [24 favorites]
We all knew this, but the man cannot take even the slightest hint of a joke at his expense.
Which is both incredibly hypocritical considering how happy he is to mock, impersonate, attack, and jeer at people he doesn't like (far more viciously than Ms. Streep did), and a bad trait for a President.
I say we cheer on and support people who make fun of Trump any way we can. Mocking him seems to be one of the fastest and easiest ways to get his attention and on his nerves.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:34 PM on January 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Which is both incredibly hypocritical considering how happy he is to mock, impersonate, attack, and jeer at people he doesn't like (far more viciously than Ms. Streep did), and a bad trait for a President.
I say we cheer on and support people who make fun of Trump any way we can. Mocking him seems to be one of the fastest and easiest ways to get his attention and on his nerves.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:34 PM on January 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
RE: Mentioned above US tanks arrive in Germany to help Nato defences
-- The largest shipment of US brigades since the fall of the Soviet Union is arriving in northern Germany.
-- The new forces will gather first in Poland, then fan out across seven countries from Estonia to Bulgaria, while a headquarters unit will be stationed in Germany.
-- Other Nato members are also increasing their presence in eastern Europe, with Britain sending fighter jets to the Black Sea area, while a battalion of troops, tanks and light armour will deploy to Estonia in the spring, backed by French and Danish troops. Germany also plans to send troops and tanks to Lithuania.
I hope (and think that he has some more surprises up his sleeve) that President Obama continues to make more moves like this. If comrade trumpski decides to undo Obama's orders he will do so under the watchful eye of the world and there will be outrage. trumpski really has no clue what he is facing. A thin skinned fragile egotistical narcisstist does not take kindly to being mocked or challanged in their own living room let alone the world stage. It will be interesting to see how he deals with situations like this.
posted by futz at 10:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
-- The largest shipment of US brigades since the fall of the Soviet Union is arriving in northern Germany.
-- The new forces will gather first in Poland, then fan out across seven countries from Estonia to Bulgaria, while a headquarters unit will be stationed in Germany.
-- Other Nato members are also increasing their presence in eastern Europe, with Britain sending fighter jets to the Black Sea area, while a battalion of troops, tanks and light armour will deploy to Estonia in the spring, backed by French and Danish troops. Germany also plans to send troops and tanks to Lithuania.
I hope (and think that he has some more surprises up his sleeve) that President Obama continues to make more moves like this. If comrade trumpski decides to undo Obama's orders he will do so under the watchful eye of the world and there will be outrage. trumpski really has no clue what he is facing. A thin skinned fragile egotistical narcisstist does not take kindly to being mocked or challanged in their own living room let alone the world stage. It will be interesting to see how he deals with situations like this.
posted by futz at 10:47 PM on January 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
...and what did they say about living in interesting times?
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:54 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:54 PM on January 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
They said may you live in them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:59 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wikipedia entry for the Committee to Protect Journalists, which Meryl Streep urged her audience to support at the end of her speech.
posted by XMLicious at 11:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 11:17 PM on January 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
On the subject of Trump mockery, I was thinking about how "Ding, Dong, The Witch Is Dead" became A Thing after Margaret Thatcher died, and the tradition of using popular music to ridicule political and public figures.
If I had to pick a catchy, recognizable song to make fun of Trump, I'd possibly choose "The Phony King of England" from Robin Hood, because man, oh man, some of the existing lyrics do remind me of Donald.
He sits alone on a giant throne
Pretendin' he's the king
A little tyke who's rather like
A puppet on a string
And he throws an angry tantrum
if he cannot have his way
And then he calls for Mum while he's suckin' his thumb
You see, he doesn't want to play.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
If I had to pick a catchy, recognizable song to make fun of Trump, I'd possibly choose "The Phony King of England" from Robin Hood, because man, oh man, some of the existing lyrics do remind me of Donald.
He sits alone on a giant throne
Pretendin' he's the king
A little tyke who's rather like
A puppet on a string
And he throws an angry tantrum
if he cannot have his way
And then he calls for Mum while he's suckin' his thumb
You see, he doesn't want to play.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:28 PM on January 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
Too late to be known as Trump the first, he's sure to be known as Trump the worst! A pox on the phony President of DC! Oodelally!
posted by supercrayon at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think I'd make an excellent court fool for our new monarch in the "tell him exactly what you think because you're a fool and can get away with it" tradition. I wonder if that position is filled.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:58 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:58 PM on January 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
For the first time since 1941, a Britain isolated from Europe may have to regard the United States as a potentially hostile foreign power. (SLGrauniad)
posted by tel3path at 12:44 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 12:44 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'd prefer Drumpf's theme song become Pigs (Three Different Ones). Donald seems to like 70s rock!
Big man, pig man
Ha, ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel
Ha, ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You're nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying 'Keep on digging'
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find
Down in the pig mine?
You're nearly a laugh
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry
posted by Meatbomb at 12:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Big man, pig man
Ha, ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel
Ha, ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You're nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying 'Keep on digging'
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find
Down in the pig mine?
You're nearly a laugh
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry
posted by Meatbomb at 12:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
All this talk about Russia and cstross reminds me of a prior discussion about another one of his gloomy prognostications. If we're going to characterize Putin as a Bond villain, then we might as well grant him a Bond villain justification- his backing of Trump not only brings America to Russia's side, but it's a personal vendetta against the Bushes and the Clintons for giving the former USSR states the ol' neoliberal IMF shock therapy. This is the ultimate blowback: by adding to the misery of Russia in the '90s, the U.S. sowed the seeds of hatred and animosity that caused plots to be hatched against it.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump has crawled out of bed early today to tweet about how great Murdoch is followed by this crap:
Meryl Streep, one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood, doesn't know me but attacked last night at the Golden Globes. She is a.....
(8 minute pause)
Hillary flunky who lost big. For the 100th time, I never "mocked" a disabled reporter (would never do that) but simply showed him.......
(7 minute pause)
"groveling" when he totally changed a 16 year old story that he had written in order to make me look bad. Just more very dishonest media!
posted by pixie at 3:47 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meryl Streep, one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood, doesn't know me but attacked last night at the Golden Globes. She is a.....
(8 minute pause)
Hillary flunky who lost big. For the 100th time, I never "mocked" a disabled reporter (would never do that) but simply showed him.......
(7 minute pause)
"groveling" when he totally changed a 16 year old story that he had written in order to make me look bad. Just more very dishonest media!
posted by pixie at 3:47 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not that you mocked a disabled reporter, Donald, it's that you mocked a disabled reporter's disability.
Get woke you sadistic fuck.
posted by Yowser at 4:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
Get woke you sadistic fuck.
posted by Yowser at 4:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
Pity the sad legacy of Barack Obama
- Cornel West
The reign of Obama did not produce the nightmare of Donald Trump – but it did contribute to it. And those Obama cheerleaders who refused to make him accountable bear some responsibility. . . .
What a sad legacy for our hope and change candidate – even as we warriors go down swinging in the fading names of truth and justice.
posted by petebest at 4:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
- Cornel West
The reign of Obama did not produce the nightmare of Donald Trump – but it did contribute to it. And those Obama cheerleaders who refused to make him accountable bear some responsibility. . . .
What a sad legacy for our hope and change candidate – even as we warriors go down swinging in the fading names of truth and justice.
posted by petebest at 4:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans Think Capitol Hill’s Rules Are for Suckers "What’s extraordinary is the insouciance with which Republicans are embracing procedurally extreme tactics they never would have tolerated from Democrats."
Republicans hate Democracy. That's it in a nutshell.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
Republicans hate Democracy. That's it in a nutshell.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
Pity the sad legacy of Barack Obama
- Cornel West
Bernie Sanders gallantly tried to generate a leftwing populism but he was crushed by Clinton and Obama in the unfair Democratic party primaries.
1) This is just trolling 2) This is trolling by repeating Trump/Putin talking points 3) This is trolling which will have the effect of dividing the opposition to Trump against itself, whether or not that is the intended effect 4) Okay armchair quarterback, I'd like to see you do better. In the real world the president is not all powerful, and in particular cannot just crush Wall Street or the military industrial complex (which are powerful in their own right, and also are more complicated than movie bad guys) with the stroke of a pen. Especially when ~46% of the population and their representatives who make up the majority of congress are on the side of the bankers and weapons dealers. Let's see you do it, without destroying the whole system.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:01 AM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
- Cornel West
Bernie Sanders gallantly tried to generate a leftwing populism but he was crushed by Clinton and Obama in the unfair Democratic party primaries.
1) This is just trolling 2) This is trolling by repeating Trump/Putin talking points 3) This is trolling which will have the effect of dividing the opposition to Trump against itself, whether or not that is the intended effect 4) Okay armchair quarterback, I'd like to see you do better. In the real world the president is not all powerful, and in particular cannot just crush Wall Street or the military industrial complex (which are powerful in their own right, and also are more complicated than movie bad guys) with the stroke of a pen. Especially when ~46% of the population and their representatives who make up the majority of congress are on the side of the bankers and weapons dealers. Let's see you do it, without destroying the whole system.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:01 AM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
Man fuck Cornel West. The fact that members of the left have been basically calling Obama a Uncle Tom and a sellout since 2009 didn't exactly help Obama.
That Obama achieved anything in the wake of 6 years of obstruction by Republicans is frankly amazing.
It's not like Obama was ever anything but the center left. It's just that a lot of people on the left seemed to expect that he'd ignore political reality.
But it's really easy for academics like Cornel West to stake out a position of ideological purity and scold from the sidelines.
Moves to split the left resulted in Trump winning the election and all the fascist policies inherent in complete Republican dominance of the government. Good to see West continuing to split the left.
posted by vuron at 5:01 AM on January 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
That Obama achieved anything in the wake of 6 years of obstruction by Republicans is frankly amazing.
It's not like Obama was ever anything but the center left. It's just that a lot of people on the left seemed to expect that he'd ignore political reality.
But it's really easy for academics like Cornel West to stake out a position of ideological purity and scold from the sidelines.
Moves to split the left resulted in Trump winning the election and all the fascist policies inherent in complete Republican dominance of the government. Good to see West continuing to split the left.
posted by vuron at 5:01 AM on January 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
(And if you destroy the system, it will be the vulnerable, not the bankers and weapons dealers, who suffer most.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:02 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:02 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
To start off this week on Capitol Hill, here's an astute analysis of the GOP tactics that, for all its obviousness, hasn't really been discussed in the media:
Republicans Plan To Overwhelm You So You Don’t Know What’s Going On. And It’s Going To Work. To recap, this week the Senate will hold confirmation hearings on Sen. Jeff Sessions for attorney general, Rep. Mike Pompeo for CIA director, Betsy DeVos for secretary of education, John Kelly for secretary of homeland security, Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, and Elaine Chao for secretary of transportation—despite the incompleteness of many of their disclosures—AND Trump has scheduled his first press conference since July of last year AND there will be a vote on the so-called 'Obamacare repeal resolution" in the 2017 budget during a vote-a-rama of amendments.
While low-information voters won't notice anything (as usual), anyone trying to stay on top of the news is going to be overloaded quickly. This all feels like something out of a post-modern propagandist playbook.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:04 AM on January 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
Republicans Plan To Overwhelm You So You Don’t Know What’s Going On. And It’s Going To Work. To recap, this week the Senate will hold confirmation hearings on Sen. Jeff Sessions for attorney general, Rep. Mike Pompeo for CIA director, Betsy DeVos for secretary of education, John Kelly for secretary of homeland security, Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, and Elaine Chao for secretary of transportation—despite the incompleteness of many of their disclosures—AND Trump has scheduled his first press conference since July of last year AND there will be a vote on the so-called 'Obamacare repeal resolution" in the 2017 budget during a vote-a-rama of amendments.
While low-information voters won't notice anything (as usual), anyone trying to stay on top of the news is going to be overloaded quickly. This all feels like something out of a post-modern propagandist playbook.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:04 AM on January 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
Times of Trump's Meryl tweets:
6:27am
6:36am (9 minutes later)
6:43am (7 minutes later)
Dude, what are you even doing?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:05 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
6:27am
6:36am (9 minutes later)
6:43am (7 minutes later)
Dude, what are you even doing?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:05 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Given the man's personal Tardis is marooned in a time loop thirty years ago, I suspect getting the 'phoney' tag into currency may be rather effective. He is wedded to his Android, after all.
posted by Devonian at 5:12 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 5:12 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean. He tried to call Meryl Streep "over-rated"?? That is just so damn third grade "I'm rubber you're glue," "I know you are but what am I."
posted by dnash at 5:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dnash at 5:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
And if you destroy the system, it will be the vulnerable, not the bankers and weapons dealers, who suffer most.
Surely there's some middle ground between destroying the banking system and virtually no accountability for anyone responsible for very nearly destroying the system such that those same people don't end up running things as part of the next administration?
posted by Candleman at 5:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Surely there's some middle ground between destroying the banking system and virtually no accountability for anyone responsible for very nearly destroying the system such that those same people don't end up running things as part of the next administration?
posted by Candleman at 5:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dude, what are you even doing?
that's how long it takes him to write each tweet in crayon for his assistant to spellcheck and type up
posted by billiebee at 5:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
that's how long it takes him to write each tweet in crayon for his assistant to spellcheck and type up
posted by billiebee at 5:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Surely there's some middle ground between destroying the banking system and virtually no accountability for anyone responsible for very nearly destroying the system such that those same people don't end up running things as part of the next administration?
There was. We did it during the savings and loan crisis. People went to jail.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:28 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
There was. We did it during the savings and loan crisis. People went to jail.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:28 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lauren Duca (of Teen Vogue) took a screen shot of her inbox: Kellyanne Conway is right. We should be wary of those "inciting people's worst instincts."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:36 AM on January 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:36 AM on January 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
Meanwhile, the Russian Embassy in London is tweeting this sort of thing...
posted by Devonian at 5:40 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 5:40 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Who knew all it took to win the Second Cold War was a frog meme.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:44 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:44 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh fuck you, crappy theocratic hellhole conservative newspaper (Colorado Springs Gazette).
Headline: "Golden Globes sing for record-breaking 'La La Land,' but Trump has spotlight"
Trump mentions: 5 in a 25 paragraph article
But of course, this sort of headline-grabbing attention is exactly what Trump wants, with no indication at all that "spotlight"= famous people calling him an asshole.
posted by bibliowench at 6:07 AM on January 9, 2017
Headline: "Golden Globes sing for record-breaking 'La La Land,' but Trump has spotlight"
Trump mentions: 5 in a 25 paragraph article
But of course, this sort of headline-grabbing attention is exactly what Trump wants, with no indication at all that "spotlight"= famous people calling him an asshole.
posted by bibliowench at 6:07 AM on January 9, 2017
OMG, that Pepe meme. This is my worst nightmare. The worst trolls on the internet are taking over the world.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:07 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:07 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Overrated is Trump's go-to insult. Because he has the maturity, vocabulary and creativity of a pre-pubescent box of rocks.
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Russian government is at best in league with fascists.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kellyanne Conway on @NewDay: "Do you always want to go by what’s come out of [Trump's] mouth rather than look at what’s in his heart?"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
The idea that there's a difference between what you say and do and who you are is noxious and asinine.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:29 AM on January 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:29 AM on January 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'm assuming that #CatsJudgingKellyanne has been linked somewhere already but just in case...
posted by billiebee at 6:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 6:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
If it's not improper for me to ask for reasonable speculation upon this particular question, any people who are veteran D.C. residents and/or participants in marches in D.C., what's the over/under of this thing getting hairy? My mother is worrying that I'll be stampeded to death, even though I'm trying to explain the wheelchair is sort of a deterrent to that sort of death.
The other thing our family pod is wondering is how safe it would be for a seven-year-old. I mean, my take on it is it would be fine, but her mom doesn't like cursing, and well, it will hard for me to avoid lustily joining a cheer full of f-bombs.
And we're not all gonna get tear gassed. Right? Right?
posted by angrycat at 7:04 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
The other thing our family pod is wondering is how safe it would be for a seven-year-old. I mean, my take on it is it would be fine, but her mom doesn't like cursing, and well, it will hard for me to avoid lustily joining a cheer full of f-bombs.
And we're not all gonna get tear gassed. Right? Right?
posted by angrycat at 7:04 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kellyanne Conway on @NewDay: "Do you always want to go by what’s come out of [Trump's] mouth rather than look at what’s in his heart?"
"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."
posted by jedicus at 7:13 AM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."
posted by jedicus at 7:13 AM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
Matthew 12:34-37
"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. "The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil."
Should have known he was a snake before you let him in, as the gentleman himself says.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. "The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil."
Should have known he was a snake before you let him in, as the gentleman himself says.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
The end justifies the means. It doesn't matter if you have to throw out every principle Jesus actually stood for. So long as Leviticus is the eventual law of the land.
posted by Talez at 7:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, you mean like the Caliphate. Never thought about it like that before!
posted by tel3path at 7:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
And we're not all gonna get tear gassed. Right? Right?
MeFites March on Washington Discussion
posted by armacy at 7:24 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
MeFites March on Washington Discussion
posted by armacy at 7:24 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
@annetdonahue
imagine you were such a fuck up that meryl streep used a lifetime achievement speech to tell the world how shitty you are
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:25 AM on January 9, 2017 [72 favorites]
imagine you were such a fuck up that meryl streep used a lifetime achievement speech to tell the world how shitty you are
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:25 AM on January 9, 2017 [72 favorites]
I think we should get some whited sepulchres made up for the inauguration.
posted by Devonian at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
If I had to pick a catchy, recognizable song to make fun of Trump, I'd possibly choose "The Phony King of England" from Robin Hood
I'd prefer Drumpf's theme song become Pigs (Three Different Ones).
I think Minor Threat cuts to the chase pretty well in this regard.
posted by Rykey at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd prefer Drumpf's theme song become Pigs (Three Different Ones).
I think Minor Threat cuts to the chase pretty well in this regard.
posted by Rykey at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, you mean like the Caliphate. Never thought about it like that before!
And circle gets the square.
posted by Talez at 7:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
And circle gets the square.
posted by Talez at 7:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
What do you mean by that, Talez? Are you implying that because I'm a Christian who would probably measure as evangelical by the standards of polls we've seen, that I voted for Trump despite not being eligible to vote in the US at all?
Or are you just congratulating me on figuring out the obvious? Because if it were that obvious I probably would have seen someone else comment on it somewhere else, and more than once, too.
I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm trying to figure out what you mean.
posted by tel3path at 7:34 AM on January 9, 2017
Or are you just congratulating me on figuring out the obvious? Because if it were that obvious I probably would have seen someone else comment on it somewhere else, and more than once, too.
I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm trying to figure out what you mean.
posted by tel3path at 7:34 AM on January 9, 2017
Surely Trump's theme song should be Randy Newman's
"Big Hat, No Cattle"
Since I was a child
I've tried to be what I am not
I've lied and I've enjoyed it all my life
I lied to my dear mother
To my sisters and my brother
And now I'm lying to my children and my wife
Big Hat, no cattle
Big head, no brain
Big snake, no rattle
I forever remain
Big hat, no cattle
I knew from the start
Big boat, no paddle
Big belly, no heart
Can't remember why I do it
Oh, maybe I can
An honest man these days is hard to find
I only know we're living in an unforgiving land
And a little lie can buy some real big peace of mind
Oftimes I have wondered what might I have become
Had I but buckled down and really tried
But when it came down to the wire
I called my family to my side
Stood up straight, threw my head back, and I lied, lied, lied
Big hat, no cattle
Big shoes, well you know
Big horse, no saddle
He goes wherever I go
Big hat, no cattle
Right from the start
Big guns, no battle
Big belly, no heart
When it came down to the wire
I called my little family to my side
Stood up straight, threw my head back, and I lied, lied, lied
Lied, lied, lied
Big hat, no cattle
Big head, no brain
Big snake, no rattle
I forever remain
Big hat, no cattle
I knew from the start
Big boat, no paddle
Big belly, no heart
Big boat, no paddle
Big belly, no heart
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:36 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Big Hat, No Cattle"
Since I was a child
I've tried to be what I am not
I've lied and I've enjoyed it all my life
I lied to my dear mother
To my sisters and my brother
And now I'm lying to my children and my wife
Big Hat, no cattle
Big head, no brain
Big snake, no rattle
I forever remain
Big hat, no cattle
I knew from the start
Big boat, no paddle
Big belly, no heart
Can't remember why I do it
Oh, maybe I can
An honest man these days is hard to find
I only know we're living in an unforgiving land
And a little lie can buy some real big peace of mind
Oftimes I have wondered what might I have become
Had I but buckled down and really tried
But when it came down to the wire
I called my family to my side
Stood up straight, threw my head back, and I lied, lied, lied
Big hat, no cattle
Big shoes, well you know
Big horse, no saddle
He goes wherever I go
Big hat, no cattle
Right from the start
Big guns, no battle
Big belly, no heart
When it came down to the wire
I called my little family to my side
Stood up straight, threw my head back, and I lied, lied, lied
Lied, lied, lied
Big hat, no cattle
Big head, no brain
Big snake, no rattle
I forever remain
Big hat, no cattle
I knew from the start
Big boat, no paddle
Big belly, no heart
Big boat, no paddle
Big belly, no heart
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:36 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's an infuriating Montana Nazi tidbit to ruin your morning: an inexplicably fawning article about Richard Spencer in a regional paper that I used to have some respect for.
Fuck this. It's the people of Montana who are standing up to Spencer. The media of this state and nation will continue to fail spectacularly and won't realize it until they're no longer allowed to resist. Plenty of people are pissed off at the Missoulian and informing them of it right now; we'll see if there's a retraction or apology or some shit tomorrow. It won't be enough.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fuck this. It's the people of Montana who are standing up to Spencer. The media of this state and nation will continue to fail spectacularly and won't realize it until they're no longer allowed to resist. Plenty of people are pissed off at the Missoulian and informing them of it right now; we'll see if there's a retraction or apology or some shit tomorrow. It won't be enough.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm trying to figure out what you mean.
It's a playful/facetious way of saying "congrats you cracked the code!".
There's a certain eyeroll that liberals do whenever an evangelical gets their goat about Sharia law knowing full well they'd implement a Christian theocracy if given the chance without even blinking.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a playful/facetious way of saying "congrats you cracked the code!".
There's a certain eyeroll that liberals do whenever an evangelical gets their goat about Sharia law knowing full well they'd implement a Christian theocracy if given the chance without even blinking.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, I apologize for implementing a Christian theocracy, I'll try to make sure it never happens again.
posted by tel3path at 7:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
@annetdonahue
imagine you were such a fuck up that meryl streep used a lifetime achievement speech to tell the world how shitty you are
In fairness, she gives a lot of award speeches. Eventually, it'll just be "Thank you so much for this... um... hey, remember Orange Julius? Those were really good. Are they still around?"
posted by Etrigan at 7:43 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
imagine you were such a fuck up that meryl streep used a lifetime achievement speech to tell the world how shitty you are
In fairness, she gives a lot of award speeches. Eventually, it'll just be "Thank you so much for this... um... hey, remember Orange Julius? Those were really good. Are they still around?"
posted by Etrigan at 7:43 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
An interesting tweetstorm (everybody's favorite literary form!) on Trump and how his fealty to Putin may be because he laundered money for Russia through his casinos. Some fascinating links and articles attached to it. It starts here.
@Khanoisseur
1. A thread on something that's been bothering me:
How on earth was Trump losing money on his casinos while competitors were making bank?
TL:DR - Trump's casinos lost shit-tons when everybody else was making shit-tons. Suddenly the only people willing to invest are Russian. Investors later sue him for $250m claiming he's laundering Russian money. He settles to avoid any disclosure. Later, the US Treasury fines Trump's casinos $10 million for "significant, long standing anti-money laundering violations", the largest fine in history against a casino.
posted by chris24 at 7:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
@Khanoisseur
1. A thread on something that's been bothering me:
How on earth was Trump losing money on his casinos while competitors were making bank?
TL:DR - Trump's casinos lost shit-tons when everybody else was making shit-tons. Suddenly the only people willing to invest are Russian. Investors later sue him for $250m claiming he's laundering Russian money. He settles to avoid any disclosure. Later, the US Treasury fines Trump's casinos $10 million for "significant, long standing anti-money laundering violations", the largest fine in history against a casino.
posted by chris24 at 7:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
@BarackObama & @JohnKerry among groomsmen for WH travel director Marvin Nicholson at Sat. wedding in JAX.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on January 9, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on January 9, 2017
I want to share this Vox op-ed because I agree with every word.
In this context, challenging Trump primarily on “normal politics” — legislative fights over safety net programs and taxes — is like ignoring a cancer diagnosis and instead devoting all your time to going to your chiropractor because in the past, he’s succeeded at getting rid of your sore back.posted by OnceUponATime at 7:57 AM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Defending basic democratic norms and maintaining a strong focus on corruption is the right strategy. Not only is it more likely to work but it is likely to leave our politics in a better place in the end.
First, making the fight about entitlements and taxes is only going to reinforce existing partisan divides, at a time when Democrats and Republicans need to figure out how to build alliances to minimize the damage Trump can do to basic norms, rather than reinforcing the divide that Trump exploited in the general election.
@RVAwonk: Texas defunded PP. Now they have the highest maternal mortality rate in the developed world.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:58 AM on January 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:58 AM on January 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
Here's the agency press release about the Trump Taj Mahal money laundering fine.
It makes awful reading about the extent and duration of the misdeeds, and one wonders exactly how bad you have to be to get a criminal prosecution in that game.
But the most pertinent thing is that the press release is dated March 2015 - it's that recent. How the hell didn't that come up during the campaign?
posted by Devonian at 8:02 AM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
It makes awful reading about the extent and duration of the misdeeds, and one wonders exactly how bad you have to be to get a criminal prosecution in that game.
But the most pertinent thing is that the press release is dated March 2015 - it's that recent. How the hell didn't that come up during the campaign?
posted by Devonian at 8:02 AM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Are you implying that because I'm a Christian who would probably measure as evangelical by the standards of polls we've seen, that I voted for Trump despite not being eligible to vote in the US at all? ... I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm trying to figure out what you mean.
I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're manufacturing offense here and in your subsequent posts. Your initial question quoted above is obviously ludicrous.
No one is implying that the Venn diagram of circle for all evangelicals is entirely inside that of Trump voters. But it is well established that polls showed that 80% of the people identified themselves as evangelicals who voted went for Trump despite the loud contradictions of his practices/promises and their professed beliefs and that a significant portion of them want government supported religion as long as it's their religion. And that many of them are focused on a few things prohibited in Leviticus while ignoring the larger message of the rest of the Old and New Testaments.
posted by Candleman at 8:06 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're manufacturing offense here and in your subsequent posts. Your initial question quoted above is obviously ludicrous.
No one is implying that the Venn diagram of circle for all evangelicals is entirely inside that of Trump voters. But it is well established that polls showed that 80% of the people identified themselves as evangelicals who voted went for Trump despite the loud contradictions of his practices/promises and their professed beliefs and that a significant portion of them want government supported religion as long as it's their religion. And that many of them are focused on a few things prohibited in Leviticus while ignoring the larger message of the rest of the Old and New Testaments.
posted by Candleman at 8:06 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Disabled people absolutely were pushed around at Trump rallies.
A wheelchair is no protection.
posted by Yowser at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
A wheelchair is no protection.
posted by Yowser at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
And by disabled people, I mean disabled Trump supporters.
They didn't meet Aryan standards of purity, I guess.
posted by Yowser at 8:10 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
They didn't meet Aryan standards of purity, I guess.
posted by Yowser at 8:10 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Right, and I was agreeing that Trump-voting Evangelicals were focusing on things prohibited in Leviticus while ignoring the larger message of the rest of the Old and New Testament, and when I remarked that there was a certain parallel between that kind of extremism and what is commonly referred to as Islamic extremism, I was surprised to receive a response that may or may not have been mocking me for being a slow-witted Evangelical who finally connected the dots.
posted by tel3path at 8:12 AM on January 9, 2017
posted by tel3path at 8:12 AM on January 9, 2017
How the hell didn't that come up during the campaign?
Seems like attention was being diverted elsewhere, during the campaign.
posted by tel3path at 8:17 AM on January 9, 2017
Seems like attention was being diverted elsewhere, during the campaign.
posted by tel3path at 8:17 AM on January 9, 2017
But the most pertinent thing is that the press release is dated March 2015 - it's that recent. How the hell didn't that come up during the campaign?
The Donald Trump Story You’re Not Hearing About from Bill Moyers & Co raised the issue, and Ted Cruz tried to hit Trump on his suspected mob ties. Trump's unintentional strategy of producing a constant stream of scandals and uncloseted skeletons apparently managed to distract the media's attention from this (to say nothing of their lack of institutional memory). As for the actual charges, Trump settled, as he prefers, since merely admitted willful violation of reporting and record-keeping requirements attracts less notice than being found guilty after a court battle.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:18 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Donald Trump Story You’re Not Hearing About from Bill Moyers & Co raised the issue, and Ted Cruz tried to hit Trump on his suspected mob ties. Trump's unintentional strategy of producing a constant stream of scandals and uncloseted skeletons apparently managed to distract the media's attention from this (to say nothing of their lack of institutional memory). As for the actual charges, Trump settled, as he prefers, since merely admitted willful violation of reporting and record-keeping requirements attracts less notice than being found guilty after a court battle.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:18 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
This all feels like something out of a post-modern propagandist playbook
The Republican Party has become a full-on fifth column for Russia.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Republican Party has become a full-on fifth column for Russia.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
How the hell didn't that come up during the campaign?
emails emails emails emails hey how come we live under an obscene fascist dictatorship now
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
emails emails emails emails hey how come we live under an obscene fascist dictatorship now
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
The Republican Party has become a full-on fifth column for Russia.
I think it would be more accurate to say that the Republican Party has gone full-on white nationalist, and is all too happy to give Putin friendship in exchange for his continued support of white nationalist parties across the West.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
I think it would be more accurate to say that the Republican Party has gone full-on white nationalist, and is all too happy to give Putin friendship in exchange for his continued support of white nationalist parties across the West.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
PoTAYto, poTAHto
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:25 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:25 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
What I mean is that the GOP gives no shits for Russia. They just love patriarchy, white supremacy, homophobia, and iron-fisted power, and Putin is all too happy to play ball with Westerners on those grounds. We should be careful to distinguish between Russia and Putin et al.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:26 AM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think it's more than that. It occurred to me last night that the reason your average Republican likes Russia is because it is, in their eyes, an almost exclusively white international power. They're afraid of the Chinese due to what is likely 19th century attitudes about Chinese "alienness" in physical appearance and culture. They're so blinded by vintage racism that they will gladly bend over for anyone who is blond or blue eyed.
I'm terribly amused by alt-right and general white-nationalist attitudes towards international cooperation. They think that Putin adores them because they are white. Putin adores them because they serve his interests. Russians are pro-Russian first, and white supremist second. They would gladly put every last western white nationalist in work camps if they got the opportunity to turn Europe or America into their dominion.
posted by constantinescharity at 8:32 AM on January 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm terribly amused by alt-right and general white-nationalist attitudes towards international cooperation. They think that Putin adores them because they are white. Putin adores them because they serve his interests. Russians are pro-Russian first, and white supremist second. They would gladly put every last western white nationalist in work camps if they got the opportunity to turn Europe or America into their dominion.
posted by constantinescharity at 8:32 AM on January 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Pope Guilty has it. After a certain amount of gibbering "but, but don't they understand that [Putin + espionage/child rape/harassment and assault/money laundering/fraud/bad hair]...?" you have to accept that the people in power aren't the ones who were fooled and Trump supporters weren't fooled either. Demonstrably, these are the values they stand for.
posted by tel3path at 8:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 8:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Be fair, constantinescharity, they'd probably exile the dissidents first. Then get to the white nationalists when the supply of dissidents ran out.
But hey, on the bright side, work camps! At least they'd finally have a manufacturing industry and bootstrap themselves out of being a mere petrostate!
another two halves of a joke adding up to a chimera of one whole joke
posted by tel3path at 8:39 AM on January 9, 2017
But hey, on the bright side, work camps! At least they'd finally have a manufacturing industry and bootstrap themselves out of being a mere petrostate!
another two halves of a joke adding up to a chimera of one whole joke
posted by tel3path at 8:39 AM on January 9, 2017
New bill in MN would ban transgender students from bathrooms that match gender—define sex by chromosomes & anatomy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Revelations and demontrations of despicable behaviour and loathsome priorities in leadership and alliances are actual plus points to the GOP supporters right now. Which is not to say they should be ignored or go un-noted by the rest of us - let's build plenty of space in the dovecot for when those pigeons do come home to roost - but we shouldn't expect then to cause scales to fall from people's eyes (my, this is quite the biblical thread).
I reiterate - while the fight must go on on all fronts, the primary place where damage may be actually done is in the courts, where evidence and rules still count for something. The bastards are going to think themselves untouchable and will over-reach, and absolute alertness and unrelenting will to make that hurt is going to be rewarded.
posted by Devonian at 8:42 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I reiterate - while the fight must go on on all fronts, the primary place where damage may be actually done is in the courts, where evidence and rules still count for something. The bastards are going to think themselves untouchable and will over-reach, and absolute alertness and unrelenting will to make that hurt is going to be rewarded.
posted by Devonian at 8:42 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
The courts will only work so long though, until Trump has had enough opportunity to pack them with Trumpublican apparatchiks like Roberts, Alito and Thomas. If he gets another SCOTUS seat, or wins reelection, that's over too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Should have known he was a snake before you let him in, as the gentleman himself says.
"WE KNOW YOU'RE A SNAKE" would not be a bad sign to hold at the march.
posted by contraption at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
"WE KNOW YOU'RE A SNAKE" would not be a bad sign to hold at the march.
posted by contraption at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
The ‘Keepin’ It 1600’ Guys Launch Crooked Media to Counter Trump Looking back at the podcast’s initial run, Favreau says, “One thing we wished we had done slightly differently—in addition to political analysis and punditry and all that good stuff—we wish we had done a little more advocacy, encouraged more participation and activism and used it as a platform to lift up all of the young progressives’ voices that are out there.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:58 AM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:58 AM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Kellyanne Conway on @NewDay: "Do you always want to go by what’s come out of [Trump's] mouth rather than look at what’s in his heart?"
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:06 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm really interested in the "Trump was possibly laundering money for the Russian mafia through Bayrock 'investments' in money-losing casinos" story. I mean, it seems like there might be something there. But I have only seen this story in that tweet storm and in some Facebook comment threads, which are not high on my "credible sources" lists. Has anyone done any investigative reporting on this? Can we get Farenthold on it? I want to know if this is a thing. I want everyone to know, if this is a thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:07 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:07 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Thread on Trump's Fiat tweets: "@brycecovert talked with the parent company of Fiat, who confirmed that this Trump tweet is complete BS". From the ThinkProgress article, in which a Fiat spokesperson is interviewed:
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
“This plan was in the works back in 2015,” Jodi Tinson, a spokeswoman for FCA, told ThinkProgress. “This announcement…was just final confirmation.”The only thing new here is that they reannounced it and Trump took the credit.
When asked directly if it was true that politics and the election had no influence on the announcement, she said, “Correct.”
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Right now the bulk of the reporting on that issue is being done by @Khanoisseur. He has a go fund me page for supporting his work here.
posted by localhuman at 9:14 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 9:14 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The most encouraging thing to me is that there are plenty of people in all positions willing to call Donald on his shit and stand up to his pack of cyberbullies. There is strength and safety in numbers.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:17 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:17 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
McConnell Not Following Confirmation Process He Demanded From Reid In '09
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) wants Democrats concerned about the incomplete ethics vetting of some of Donald Trump’s Cabinet nominees to “grow up,” but he asked for a similarly thorough review of Barack Obama’s nominees back in 2009.posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
In a letter to then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), McConnell requested that nominees' FBI background checks, Office of Government Ethics reviews and financial disclosure statements be complete “prior to a hearing being noticed.”
WaPo Donald Trump says D.C.’s dress shops are sold out of inauguration gowns. Wrong!
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Definitely not, said Martha Slagle, vice president and general manager of the Neiman Marcus in Friendship Heights. If a ball attendee were to walk in today, “you have more than a thousand evening gowns to choose from,” she said, noting that the store stocks up every four years in anticipation of inauguration demand.And now that poor Neiman Marcus manager is surely about to be attacked and harassed.
Classic black? Got ’em. Colorful garments? Yep, those, too — plus furs and wraps and evening coats for the notoriously chilly January nights, she said.
Slagle actually laughed when we mentioned Trump’s claim about the status of Washington’s dress options. “I’m stuffed with beautiful gowns,” she said.
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Jeff Sessions Wanted to ‘Drop the Case’ Against KKK Lynching
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:31 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:31 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Let's not forget that Strom Thurmond thought Sessions was too racist to be a judge.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:32 AM on January 9, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:32 AM on January 9, 2017 [57 favorites]
Donald's lie about the availability of dresses is both petty as hell and also just one more really concerning sign. Not that it's a surprise, but this guy literally will lie about anything, anytime, unprovoked and unplanned, if it's going to help him stroke his own ego. He can't just refute someone, he always has to then make up support for his own position.
I don't know that there's a word for the diplomatic incidents he's going to cause (is already causing?).
posted by tocts at 9:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't know that there's a word for the diplomatic incidents he's going to cause (is already causing?).
posted by tocts at 9:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't know that there's a word for the diplomatic incidents he's going to cause
Armageddon?
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Armageddon?
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Even if some report came out highlighting concrete evidence of mob ties it would not make a damn difference to his supporters - Hillary Clinton is a criminal warlord anyway, Vince Foster, etc. They would deride it all as "fake news", a term that has been co-opted and changed from "false/inflammatory clickbait" to "information I disagree with". The left are the *real* hypocrites, you see, for obsessing over Trump's record when the *actual* criminals have been Democrats running amok in Washington all along. Why no MSM reporting on THAT, hmmmmmm? Could it have to do with this George Soros conspiracy I read about on this alt-right message board somewhere? CNN and MSNBC would report on it for like, a day, by bringing "both sides" to the table and life would go on. Trump saying he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose a voter is probably the most true and accurate thing he's ever said.
posted by windbox at 9:35 AM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by windbox at 9:35 AM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Even if some report came out highlighting concrete evidence of mob ties it would not make a damn difference to his supporters - Hillary Clinton is a criminal warlord anyway, Vince Foster, etc.
They're going to be defending Trump with, "but Hilary got the debate questions" for 4 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
They're going to be defending Trump with, "but Hilary got the debate questions" for 4 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
He could probably reveal himself to be an tentacled alien monstrosity bent on assimilating and bending all humanity to his will and he would still have supporters.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:38 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Elizabeth Wydra: Bad Law: A look at the terrible things Jeff Sessions did as attorney general of Alabama.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:42 AM on January 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
As detailed in this new examination of archived news reports and original source documents, at least twice during his mere two years in office, Sessions produced legally flawed opinions that were favorable to Alabama Gov. Fob James that also, conveniently, aligned with the interests of one of Alabama’s most politically powerful and deep-pocketed organizations. That organization also happened to have spent substantial sums on, and taken credit for, electing James and Sessions to office.Ari Berman: Jeff Sessions Could Return Criminal Justice to the Jim Crow Era
Years later, Sessions’ legal reasoning in these opinions was overruled by broad majorities of the Alabama Supreme Court—including in one ruling written by a Republican justice.
Sessions’ brief, troubling record doesn’t end there. As a state attorney general, he also cleared the way for a politically connected insurance company’s planned no-bid coverage of state road work; urged the Alabama Ethics Commission to approve corporate-funded junkets for state employees; fought successfully against seating the first black intermediate appellate court judges in Alabama’s history; and, no joke, provided formal support for a local sheriff’s use of actual chain gangs.
More than any nominee for attorney general in modern American history, Sessions would be an unapologetic defender of the old Confederacy and has refused to criticize policies that stem directly from Jim Crow. For example, Alabama’s 1901 Constitution still includes language authorizing a poll tax and segregated schools. Referendums to remove such language—which Sessions failed to support—were defeated by voters in 2004 and 2012. Interracial marriage was illegal in the state until 2000. When Sessions was state attorney general, there were still officially segregated proms in the state.Keep all of this in mind when seeing who questions him and and on what, and watch how Senators vote, especially the "Never"Trumpers and Manchin.
Last year, after the massacre of nine African-Americans in Charleston, South Carolina, Alabama Governor Robert Bentley removed the Confederate flag from the grounds of the Alabama statehouse. When he was asked about it, Sessions, who is named after a Confederate general, said “I’m not going to criticize the governor,” but defended Confederate history. “This is a huge part of who we are and the left is continually seeking, in a host of different ways, it seems to me, I don’t want to be too paranoid about this, but they seek to delegitimize the fabulous accomplishments of our country.”
posted by zombieflanders at 9:42 AM on January 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
So I have a n00b question about US election procedure, but I really am not clear about this: once Trump decided to run for office, was anyone in the Republican Party empowered to stop him? Could anyone have said "no, we don't like you as a candidate, you can't run for office as a Republican?"
Or was it a matter of, he decides to run for office, he keeps getting enough votes, and nobody in the Republican Party can remove him from the process because it's not their decision?
posted by tel3path at 9:43 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or was it a matter of, he decides to run for office, he keeps getting enough votes, and nobody in the Republican Party can remove him from the process because it's not their decision?
posted by tel3path at 9:43 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh and hey look at this :(
Just as with Obama’s soon-to-be-removed international envoys, Trump has ordered Under Secretary for Nuclear Security Frank Klotz and his deputy, Madelyn Creedon—both Obama appointees—to leave their posts, even if it means no one is in charge of maintaining the country’s nuclear weapons. (Note: emphasis mine)
The source later added, “I’m more and more coming around to the idea that we’re so very, very fucked.”posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:43 AM on January 9, 2017 [52 favorites]
These people can always find ways to make it sound like they're the good guys and we're the bad, especially to sympathetic people and their supporters.
It's kind of similar to the "But SJWs are the REAL bullies and Milo/Gamergate's just giving them back what they deserve!" apologism I run into online sometimes. It's wrong, both self-serving and wrong, but they genuinely believe it and it's near-impossible to dislodge them from it.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:48 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's kind of similar to the "But SJWs are the REAL bullies and Milo/Gamergate's just giving them back what they deserve!" apologism I run into online sometimes. It's wrong, both self-serving and wrong, but they genuinely believe it and it's near-impossible to dislodge them from it.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:48 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
@BraddJaffy: Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, will be named Senior Adviser to the President, senior transition official confirms to NBC News
posted by zombieflanders at 9:52 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:52 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Imagine if Hilary won and named Chelsea's husband "Senior Adviser" on the White House payroll.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
These people can always find ways to make it sound like they're the good guys and we're the bad, especially to sympathetic people and their supporters.
Sociopaths always go for the pity play.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sociopaths always go for the pity play.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:54 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
In the coming era, I think that "Kushner vs. Bannon" is going to be a go-to theory for those inclined to speculate about which members of the Small Council are fighting each other at the moment for the chance to get at Joffrey's ear.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:56 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:56 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Gersh Kuntzman, NY Daily News: Meryl Streep’s Golden Globes speech isn’t going to do anything to stop Trump now
So, sure, we need Meryl Streep's voice, but what we really need is political leaders who will stop the worst excesses. I'd like to think that someone exists in the loyal opposition to put the brakes on Trump's agenda, but this weekend, I looked around and Sen. Chuck Schumer — the minority leader in the Senate! — was having another Sunday press conference about a train derailment instead of racing around the country trying to stop Wednesday's confirmation steamroller.posted by monospace at 9:57 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
When Trump starts locking up Muslims, I fully anticipate Chuck Schumer doing what he does best: holding a press conference about a new bike lane in the Rockaways. (Update: Tonight in Brooklyn, hundreds will rally in front of Schumer's Prospect Park West apartment demanding that he do something already. This one protest will do more than 10 Meryl Streep speeches if the sight of hundreds of people shivering in the cold help Schumer grow even a tiny pair already.)
Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, will be named Senior Adviser to the President, senior transition official confirms to NBC News
But Hillary! Clinton dynasty! Nepotism!
(/s, bitter, broken laughter)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:59 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
But Hillary! Clinton dynasty! Nepotism!
(/s, bitter, broken laughter)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:59 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
That's the only thing that opens up one shred of possibility of sympathy for Trump. He clearly displays problems in processing language and maintaining attention.
Nah, fuck 'im.
posted by notsnot at 10:02 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Nah, fuck 'im.
posted by notsnot at 10:02 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
How is Kushner assuming that position not expressly illegal? I really thought it was. Did someone not post an article many threads ago explaining exactly that such is the case?
posted by constantinescharity at 10:10 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by constantinescharity at 10:10 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Just as with Obama’s soon-to-be-removed international envoys, Trump has ordered Under Secretary for Nuclear Security Frank Klotz and his deputy, Madelyn Creedon—both Obama appointees—to leave their posts, even if it means no one is in charge of maintaining the country’s nuclear weapons.
It's like they all got out of civics class around 1872. "Slavery's over, the blacks are happy, the spoils system is still in effect, and it doesn't really matter if a desk is unoccupied for a couple of months."
posted by Etrigan at 10:11 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's like they all got out of civics class around 1872. "Slavery's over, the blacks are happy, the spoils system is still in effect, and it doesn't really matter if a desk is unoccupied for a couple of months."
posted by Etrigan at 10:11 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
How is Kushner assuming that position not expressly illegal?
It turns out that anything the president does is de facto legal. Surprised you didn't learn this in school
posted by beerperson at 10:14 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
It turns out that anything the president does is de facto legal. Surprised you didn't learn this in school
posted by beerperson at 10:14 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
it's like the conflict of interest. he thinks the law is on his side. "president can't have COI" is understood to mean the thing is impossible, not that the thing is prohibited.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:21 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's not illegal if nobody stops you.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 10:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
Kellyanne Conway article in the Washington Examiner: Once that's over, she explains, "My daughter started an online petition called 'Stop the Conway kids from moving to Washington,' and she has like 400 signatures. So I had to punish her because it was not nice to do without permission, but I will tell her, when she is older, that I appreciated her moxie."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
it's like the conflict of interest. he thinks the law is on his side. "president can't have COI" is understood to mean the thing is impossible, not that the thing is prohibited.
Well the king is infallible...
posted by Talez at 10:23 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well the king is infallible...
posted by Talez at 10:23 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
The GOP is making the Congressional Black Congress testify last at Sessions confirmation
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:25 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:25 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Every day's a test of our camaraderie and bravery.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Wait a second. So Conway was waging a PR campaign to try to get her kids into DC private school, while her 12 year old was running an online petition to stop the family from moving to Washington? And she views this story as a cute anecdote instead of a fairly serious sign? This family is, uh, something.
posted by zachlipton at 10:29 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:29 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
See. What makes something illegal or criminal? Well, I mean, of course you would say there's a law against it, or whatever. But no, it's more than that. It's that somehow, somewhere, you're going to be punished by the state for an infraction of it. With force. Violence.
Everything in the American legal system is subject to prosecutorial discretion. Weed is only legal because Obama's DOJ choose not to prosecute it federally. No one went to jail for the mortgage crisis because Obama's DOJ declined to bring cases. The Lewinski scandal was a thing because the Republican Congress created a kangaroo special prosecutor and told him to find something to charge Bill Clinton with.
Jeff Sessions is about to be the nation's chief prosecutor in charge of deciding what laws to enforce. And the Republicans also control Congress. Laws on the books mean nothing without enforcement.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:30 AM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Everything in the American legal system is subject to prosecutorial discretion. Weed is only legal because Obama's DOJ choose not to prosecute it federally. No one went to jail for the mortgage crisis because Obama's DOJ declined to bring cases. The Lewinski scandal was a thing because the Republican Congress created a kangaroo special prosecutor and told him to find something to charge Bill Clinton with.
Jeff Sessions is about to be the nation's chief prosecutor in charge of deciding what laws to enforce. And the Republicans also control Congress. Laws on the books mean nothing without enforcement.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:30 AM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Even if some report came out highlighting concrete evidence of mob ties it would not make a damn difference to his supporters
This is true about his supporters, but it is not a reason to conclude that it's futile to continue digging up and publicizing damning evidence of Trump's malfeasance and criminality. Sure he has a sizable base of people for whom being a mobbed-up rich guy mouthing off to everyone and sticking it to the US government is their version of the American Dream, and that says nothing good about our country, but they are and will remain a minority.
The people we need to reach are the people who didn't vote for anybody, and a constant barrage of news stories about what an utterly loathsome person we elected is a crucial part of getting those people to start paying attention and muster the energy to drag their asses to the polls. Fascism wins when it can mobilize a bloodthirsty minority against an apathetic or fearful majority. Right now it's still mostly apathy, and apathy strikes me as easier to overcome than fear of death squads.
posted by contraption at 10:32 AM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
This is true about his supporters, but it is not a reason to conclude that it's futile to continue digging up and publicizing damning evidence of Trump's malfeasance and criminality. Sure he has a sizable base of people for whom being a mobbed-up rich guy mouthing off to everyone and sticking it to the US government is their version of the American Dream, and that says nothing good about our country, but they are and will remain a minority.
The people we need to reach are the people who didn't vote for anybody, and a constant barrage of news stories about what an utterly loathsome person we elected is a crucial part of getting those people to start paying attention and muster the energy to drag their asses to the polls. Fascism wins when it can mobilize a bloodthirsty minority against an apathetic or fearful majority. Right now it's still mostly apathy, and apathy strikes me as easier to overcome than fear of death squads.
posted by contraption at 10:32 AM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Are there any reporters interviewing nonvoters and trying to understand them, or are we still focused with laser precision on developing compassion for the Trump voters?
posted by prefpara at 10:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 10:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Just stopping by to encourage you all to please call your senator about opposing Trump's nominations. You can find your senator here.
I called this morning and spoke to a staffer for Sen Bill Nelson (after being placed on hold for nearly 3 min's due to the influx of calls) and he politely took my info and said he'd pass my message along that Sessions is unacceptable.
Wall-of-Us has a great script for organizing your thoughts and giving you the courage to get on the horn and give'm hell!
posted by photoslob at 10:37 AM on January 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
I called this morning and spoke to a staffer for Sen Bill Nelson (after being placed on hold for nearly 3 min's due to the influx of calls) and he politely took my info and said he'd pass my message along that Sessions is unacceptable.
Wall-of-Us has a great script for organizing your thoughts and giving you the courage to get on the horn and give'm hell!
posted by photoslob at 10:37 AM on January 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
The GOP is making the Congressional Black Congress testify last at Sessions confirmation
So what you're saying is that the GOP sent the black people to the back of the confirmation hearing?
posted by Talez at 10:39 AM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
So what you're saying is that the GOP sent the black people to the back of the confirmation hearing?
posted by Talez at 10:39 AM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Every day's a test of our camaraderie and bravery.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:40 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
FREEDOM IS
IN PERIL
DEFEND IT
WITH ALL
YOUR MIGHT
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:40 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Some discussion of the nepotism law w/r/t Kushner from mid-November: Donald Trump’s Son-in-Law, Jared Kushner, Tests Legal Path to White House Job.
The nut of it:
-----
*Jeebus, the NY Times is making sharing hard. They've somehow gummed up the site such that you can't copy from the served page for copy/pastes. I had to grab all the above from the page source and strip out the html before pasting here. Any workarounds?
posted by notyou at 10:46 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
The nut of it:
Ethics lawyers in both parties said that such an arrangement would violate a federal statute designed to prevent family ties from influencing the functioning of the United States government. Under a 1967 law enacted after John F. Kennedy installed his brother, Robert F. Kennedy, as attorney general, no public official can hire a family member — including one related by marriage — to an agency or office over which he has authority. A separate statute also makes it a crime, punishable by a fine and up to two years of prison time, for government employees to accept voluntary services that are not authorized by law, except in emergency situationsThe argument Trumpco is going with today is, from what I've seen, that Kushner will not be put in charge of an "agency or office" (he'd serve as a Senior Adviser), and so the law doesn't apply.
The anti-nepotism law “would seem to block out Kushner flatly,” said Norman L. Eisen, who served as Mr. Obama’s ethics counsel during his transition and at the White House. If Mr. Trump were to try to skirt it by having Mr. Kushner advise him in a volunteer capacity, he added, he “would be treading upon very serious statutory and constitutional grounds.”
“When push comes to shove, on the very hardest calls that confront a president, you want the president’s adviser to remember that their oath or affirmation to the Constitution comes first, before family ties,” Mr. Eisen said. “You need to be able to say no. You need to be able to hold the line. You need to be able to threaten to resign, and you need to be able to actually resign. You can’t resign from being somebody’s son-in-law.”
Mr. Trump could try to circumvent the law, the lawyers said, by arguing that he has broad executive authority as president to choose his advisers. But that move would probably invite a legal challenge, forcing a court to decide whether the president’s executive authority to choose his advisers takes precedent over a law passed by Congress that bans nepotism in the government.
-----
*Jeebus, the NY Times is making sharing hard. They've somehow gummed up the site such that you can't copy from the served page for copy/pastes. I had to grab all the above from the page source and strip out the html before pasting here. Any workarounds?
posted by notyou at 10:46 AM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Bomb threats today against Jewish community centers across the South: Nashville, Miami Beach, Jacksonville, Columbia, SC, and Rockville, MD.
More economic anxiety I'm sure.
Update: if you scroll down, there are at least two more.
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
More economic anxiety I'm sure.
Update: if you scroll down, there are at least two more.
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
notyou, have you tried opening the url in archive.is? maybe that would work?
posted by futz at 10:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 10:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
*Jeebus, the NY Times is making sharing hard. They've somehow gummed up the site such that you can't copy from the served page for copy/pastes. I had to grab all the above from the page source and strip out the html before pasting here. Any workarounds?
Turning off Javascript (temporarily) should do the trick.
posted by monospace at 10:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Turning off Javascript (temporarily) should do the trick.
posted by monospace at 10:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
*Jeebus, the NY Times is making sharing hard. They've somehow gummed up the site such that you can't copy from the served page for copy/pastes. I had to grab all the above from the page source and strip out the html before pasting here. Any workarounds?
As with most idiocy, turn off their right to javascript.
posted by jaduncan at 10:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
As with most idiocy, turn off their right to javascript.
posted by jaduncan at 10:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bomb threats against Jewish community centers?
Totally obviously way clearly economic anxiety.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:55 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Totally obviously way clearly economic anxiety.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:55 AM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
The NYT should keep this quote from that article handy:
If Mr. Trump were to try to (insert daily news here), he “would be treading upon very serious statutory and constitutional grounds.”
posted by diogenes at 10:59 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
If Mr. Trump were to try to (insert daily news here), he “would be treading upon very serious statutory and constitutional grounds.”
posted by diogenes at 10:59 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bomb threats today against Jewish community centers across the South: Nashville, Miami Beach, Jacksonville, Columbia, SC, and Rockville, MD.
There was a similar threat made against a Jewish pre-school where my mom teaches last week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
There was a similar threat made against a Jewish pre-school where my mom teaches last week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I had to grab all the above from the page source and strip out the html before pasting here. Any workarounds?
I don't have that problem in chromimum or firefox on ubuntu trusty.
posted by Coventry at 11:00 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't have that problem in chromimum or firefox on ubuntu trusty.
posted by Coventry at 11:00 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just posting this again from the previous thread in case anyone missed it and has time to phone bank today/this evening, there's a special election tomorrow in Virginia, that could give control of the VA Senate to Democrats. The Democratic candidate, Ryant Washington, is running in a conservative district, but there are two GOP candidates that will be splitting the GOP vote and special elections always have low turnout, so there is a potential for a Democratic pickup if enough pissed off Dems/liberals show up.
Here's the link to the virtual phone bank if you can spare some time today.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:04 AM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Here's the link to the virtual phone bank if you can spare some time today.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:04 AM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Puppeteered by Putin or Bannon - it'll be interesting when they start pulling in different directions.
Which one is the Obertrumpenführer?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:13 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc. Report in Opposition to the Nomination of Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III to be Attorney General of the United States (PDF)
posted by zombieflanders at 11:16 AM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:16 AM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Why would Putin and Bannon pull in different directions? They share mostly the same ideology. Both are anti-democracy and pro-white-nationalism. Bannon runs "The platform for the alt right." And the Russian embassy tweets Pepe memes. They have nothing but love for each other.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:18 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:18 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also Bannon, like Putin, wants to bring down the American government. (Or as he puts it to "destroy the state.")
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:19 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have one of those "Freedom is In Peril" posters hanging up in my cubicle.
posted by asteria at 11:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by asteria at 11:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really am not clear about this: once Trump decided to run for office, was anyone in the Republican Party empowered to stop him? Could anyone have said "no, we don't like you as a candidate, you can't run for office as a Republican?"
The real answer will be an absolute confusion of state ballot access laws and precedents, state party rules, national regulation, and RNC procedures.
But the short, good-enough answer is that no, they can't.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The real answer will be an absolute confusion of state ballot access laws and precedents, state party rules, national regulation, and RNC procedures.
But the short, good-enough answer is that no, they can't.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:20 AM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Someone created a satire account that envisions Trump as a mature individual. Almost surreal.
PresidentialTrump
posted by Surely This at 11:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
PresidentialTrump
posted by Surely This at 11:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
President Obama has continued his academic publishing streak, publishing in Science, "The irreversible momentum of clean energy."
posted by zachlipton at 11:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:27 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
But the short, good-enough answer is that no, they can't.
Besides, they thought he had no chance.
Y'know, once Trump became the Republican nominee, I thought he had a real chance of winning. But I am still more confused about how he became the Republican nominee.
I know MeFi will say "because Republicans are racist, duh," and yes, I'm sure that is a big part of it. But it still doesn't make sense to me. Why didn't Newt Gingrich do better as a presidential candidate then? Or Pat Buchanan? "Because Obama enraged them." Yes, he did, but seriously, there were 16 other candidates who also hated Obama and "political correctness", why Trump?
I keep thinking about how Roger Stone threatened Republican delegates. And I can't help but wonder if some of the candidates got threats too. Blackmail or violence... They folded so easily and so completely, even the ones who initially hated him, and it doesn't make sense to me, still.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:31 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Besides, they thought he had no chance.
Y'know, once Trump became the Republican nominee, I thought he had a real chance of winning. But I am still more confused about how he became the Republican nominee.
I know MeFi will say "because Republicans are racist, duh," and yes, I'm sure that is a big part of it. But it still doesn't make sense to me. Why didn't Newt Gingrich do better as a presidential candidate then? Or Pat Buchanan? "Because Obama enraged them." Yes, he did, but seriously, there were 16 other candidates who also hated Obama and "political correctness", why Trump?
I keep thinking about how Roger Stone threatened Republican delegates. And I can't help but wonder if some of the candidates got threats too. Blackmail or violence... They folded so easily and so completely, even the ones who initially hated him, and it doesn't make sense to me, still.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:31 AM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
D.C. will go ‘beyond sanctuary,’ create legal defense fund for illegal immigrants
posted by futz at 11:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by futz at 11:33 AM on January 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yes, he did, but seriously, there were 16 other candidates who also hated Obama and 'political correctness', why Trump?
He was the hatin'est.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:34 AM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yes, he did, but seriously, there were 16 other candidates who also hated Obama and "political correctness", why Trump?
Because he was utterly untainted by "politics", having never held an elected or appointed office; and he said what so many other people were thinking -- "It's not your fault, it's theirs. You're a good, hardworking real American, not one of those other people who are at least not two of those things. All we need to do is kick some ass, rather than take a long deep look at ourselves and the society we've built."
posted by Etrigan at 11:35 AM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Because he was utterly untainted by "politics", having never held an elected or appointed office; and he said what so many other people were thinking -- "It's not your fault, it's theirs. You're a good, hardworking real American, not one of those other people who are at least not two of those things. All we need to do is kick some ass, rather than take a long deep look at ourselves and the society we've built."
posted by Etrigan at 11:35 AM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Yes, he did, but seriously, there were 16 other candidates who also hated Obama and "political correctness", why Trump?
He said the quiet parts loud. They were tired of veiled racism, they've been wanting the real thing for decades.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:37 AM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
He said the quiet parts loud. They were tired of veiled racism, they've been wanting the real thing for decades.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:37 AM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
why Trump?
He wasn't any more racist but he was more open about it and unafraid to embrace it. He was also better at being funny (for a Horrible Person definition of funny). He had no dog whistles, just whistles. And people who had felt "oppressed" by having to hide their horrible thoughts to themselves were suddenly given permission to shout them. They went from being told "ok yeah you're racist and that's great but keep it quiet" to being told "You're the best people in America and you're right to be racist and deserve to be heard!"
I can completely understand how he won, once he got into the primary.
I attribute the failure of the Republican party to kneecap him early as a sign of their hollowness. They've tossed reason, facts and science (and the people in the party who believed in them) over the side in their mania to make wealth the only value they cherish or promote. There was no one left to sound the alarm/mobilize to take out someone like Trump.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
He wasn't any more racist but he was more open about it and unafraid to embrace it. He was also better at being funny (for a Horrible Person definition of funny). He had no dog whistles, just whistles. And people who had felt "oppressed" by having to hide their horrible thoughts to themselves were suddenly given permission to shout them. They went from being told "ok yeah you're racist and that's great but keep it quiet" to being told "You're the best people in America and you're right to be racist and deserve to be heard!"
I can completely understand how he won, once he got into the primary.
I attribute the failure of the Republican party to kneecap him early as a sign of their hollowness. They've tossed reason, facts and science (and the people in the party who believed in them) over the side in their mania to make wealth the only value they cherish or promote. There was no one left to sound the alarm/mobilize to take out someone like Trump.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
But his quiet parts weren't really louder than Gingrich's or Buchanan's. He didn't actually say "I hate black people and Mexicans and Muslims." He still coded it in terms of "crime" and "illegals" and "terrorists," just like those predecessors.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump was almost always the front runner from about mid-December (maybe earlier), but the Republican establishment believed that his ceiling was only 30-35% and the other candidates crowded the "mainstream" Republican lane, splitting the vote of the anti-Trump majority. So one by one, each of the candidates had a moment of glory, then crashed and burned, until only Trump and Cruz (who had consolidated the Christian right vote) were left. And ultimately Cruz was loathed enough by both the establishment and the non-theocratic primary voters that they threw their support behind Trump.
If Rubio, Bush, Kasich and Christie had gotten together -- as late as early February, I think -- and decided that stopping Trump was more important than any one of their individual political ambitions, I think they could have done it. But ultimately they each underestimated the fascist impulse behind much of the GOP base, and overestimated their own political ability. They put career before country, and as a result they destroyed both.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
If Rubio, Bush, Kasich and Christie had gotten together -- as late as early February, I think -- and decided that stopping Trump was more important than any one of their individual political ambitions, I think they could have done it. But ultimately they each underestimated the fascist impulse behind much of the GOP base, and overestimated their own political ability. They put career before country, and as a result they destroyed both.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:41 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
Here I was thinking that "DC isn't really out of evening gowns" would be the weird fact check of the day, but AP just had to top that with FACT CHECK: Streep overrated? Trump picks a decorated star
The article mostly takes a couple paragraphs to say she's earned a massive amount of awards, while acknowledging that "overrated" is an opinion and thus throwing significant doubt on the purpose of the article. But it does have time for some serious shade in the kicker that makes it all worthwhile:
The article mostly takes a couple paragraphs to say she's earned a massive amount of awards, while acknowledging that "overrated" is an opinion and thus throwing significant doubt on the purpose of the article. But it does have time for some serious shade in the kicker that makes it all worthwhile:
Trump and Streep, who spoke on behalf of Hillary Clinton at last year's Democratic National Convention, are far apart on politics and have found themselves on opposite ends in Hollywood when it comes to honors. He has two Emmy nominations — no wins — for best outstanding reality competition. But he beat her to one award — a Golden Raspberry. He won a worst supporting actor trophy in 1989, appearing opposite Bo Derek in the crime comedy "Ghosts Can't Do It."posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
The appeal of Trump stemmed directly from the fact that he could flout every law and norm with impunity. The fantasy is that he'd blow away the cobwebs of the decrepit, effete republic and rule as king. Every time he pissed off politicians or scientists or journalists or women with no consequences was more proof that he was the One.
posted by theodolite at 11:44 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:44 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
The reason I asked the question is this: if there was effectively no way to stop Trump from running as a Republican presidential candidate - either in the first place, or at any point during the election - in the sense that if I were a qualifying US citizen I could also have run for office as a Republican and (IT'S A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT OKAY) the entire Republican party would have had no choice but to watch, mouths agape and sputtering with horror, as I gathered votes like The Blob -
well, that tells me that at least some of the Never Trumpians were sincere at the time.
Whereas, if there *had* been a way to intervene before he won the entire election, then I'd know for a fact that every last one of them is nothing but a white supremacist in their evil little hearts, and they were merely using Trump in a myrmidon function for their own beliefs that they themselves were rightfully too ashamed to own up to.
And if the latter, that would 100% explain the lack of resistance now.
But if as you say, he literally could not have been stopped, and if there's no reason to doubt that at least some of the NeverTrumpians were fully sincere, there is *probably* something more going on behind the scenes that explains why they're so compliant now.
And I would guess it's because of whatever was in the RNC servers that was hacked but not (so far) actually leaked. Or else some other form of threat or intimidation that we aren't paying attention to because Donnie is such a lightning rod for scandal that all our eyes are on him.
posted by tel3path at 11:45 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
well, that tells me that at least some of the Never Trumpians were sincere at the time.
Whereas, if there *had* been a way to intervene before he won the entire election, then I'd know for a fact that every last one of them is nothing but a white supremacist in their evil little hearts, and they were merely using Trump in a myrmidon function for their own beliefs that they themselves were rightfully too ashamed to own up to.
And if the latter, that would 100% explain the lack of resistance now.
But if as you say, he literally could not have been stopped, and if there's no reason to doubt that at least some of the NeverTrumpians were fully sincere, there is *probably* something more going on behind the scenes that explains why they're so compliant now.
And I would guess it's because of whatever was in the RNC servers that was hacked but not (so far) actually leaked. Or else some other form of threat or intimidation that we aren't paying attention to because Donnie is such a lightning rod for scandal that all our eyes are on him.
posted by tel3path at 11:45 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
"The irreversible momentum of clean energy."
There's going to be red-hats turning up in coal-rollers to smash solar panels before all this is over.
posted by Artw at 11:46 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
There's going to be red-hats turning up in coal-rollers to smash solar panels before all this is over.
posted by Artw at 11:46 AM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
seriously, there were 16 other candidates who also hated Obama and "political correctness", why Trump?
I started to write a lengthy metaphor about 17 candidates for Chief Dessert Maker, where the 17th wants to shit on a plate and make your enemies eat it, but then I was overwhelmed with despair. Suffice it to say I agree with tivalasvegas.
posted by corb at 11:46 AM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
I started to write a lengthy metaphor about 17 candidates for Chief Dessert Maker, where the 17th wants to shit on a plate and make your enemies eat it, but then I was overwhelmed with despair. Suffice it to say I agree with tivalasvegas.
posted by corb at 11:46 AM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
That makes me wonder - what's so special about Trump that made him so untouchable by the law? He wasn't the richest of the rich or the brightest of the bright in business (whatever he wanted people to think). I can only assume it was a combination of greasing the right palms, knowing the right people, and the devil's luck.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rubio, Bush, Kasich and Christie
His name is Reek.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
His name is Reek.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:49 AM on January 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Whereas, if there *had* been a way to intervene before he won the entire election, then I'd know for a fact that every last one of them is nothing but a white supremacist in their evil little hearts, and they were merely using Trump in a myrmidon function for their own beliefs that they themselves were rightfully too ashamed to own up to.
There was a way even after he won the primary, they could've endorsed Clinton to stop him and save democracy and America. They didn't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
There was a way even after he won the primary, they could've endorsed Clinton to stop him and save democracy and America. They didn't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
But if as you say, he literally could not have been stopped, and if there's no reason to doubt that at least some of the NeverTrumpians were fully sincere, there is *probably* something more going on behind the scenes that explains why they're so compliant now.
He won, and he's a narcissistic idiot. That means that as long as you look like you're supporting him, you have a pretty good chance to grab your own piece of the (ideological) pie.
posted by Etrigan at 11:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
He won, and he's a narcissistic idiot. That means that as long as you look like you're supporting him, you have a pretty good chance to grab your own piece of the (ideological) pie.
posted by Etrigan at 11:50 AM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
HISTORIC: Sec. John Kerry Issues Formal Apology To LGBT State Department Staffers For Past Discrimination
posted by zombieflanders at 11:55 AM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:55 AM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
His name is Reek.
In fairness to Theon Greyjoy, he did eventually take his identity back and successfully escaped Ramsay's control.
Christie, as far as I can tell, hasn't.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:55 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
In fairness to Theon Greyjoy, he did eventually take his identity back and successfully escaped Ramsay's control.
Christie, as far as I can tell, hasn't.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:55 AM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
That means that as long as you look like you're supporting him, you have a pretty good chance to grab your own piece of the (ideological) pie.
Not to mention the actual pie-as-metaphor-for-cash.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:56 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not to mention the actual pie-as-metaphor-for-cash.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:56 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
But if as you say, he literally could not have been stopped, and if there's no reason to doubt that at least some of the NeverTrumpians were fully sincere, there is *probably* something more going on behind the scenes that explains why they're so compliant now.
It's not as black and white as fully-deplorable vs. never-trump. I think the majority of Republican elected officials were opposed to Trump for a combination of "we think he's a racist, fascist, misogynistic, incompetent asshole" [CORRECT REASON, if you're counting], "we don't trust his conservative credentials" [TBD], and "we think he can't win and will destroy the party" [understandable, unfortunately not borne out by subsequent events].
As the Trump juggernaut advanced and sucked up the more craven of the party leaders (e.g., Chris Christie and Ben Carson), the calculus for the last reason shifted to "OK, if we oppose this guy who's clearly the grassroots choice, that will destroy the party", and weakened the second reason "OK, we're not going to be able to influence politics at all if we destroy the GOP and hand over the White House and Senate (and possibly even the House) to the Democrats.
So their choice became clear. Would they take a stand against fascism even if it meant losing power, maybe all power, for another four or eight years? It was the final test of whether a formally anti-racist, anti-fascist American conservatism would possibly endure.
They failed that test.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:57 AM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
It's not as black and white as fully-deplorable vs. never-trump. I think the majority of Republican elected officials were opposed to Trump for a combination of "we think he's a racist, fascist, misogynistic, incompetent asshole" [CORRECT REASON, if you're counting], "we don't trust his conservative credentials" [TBD], and "we think he can't win and will destroy the party" [understandable, unfortunately not borne out by subsequent events].
As the Trump juggernaut advanced and sucked up the more craven of the party leaders (e.g., Chris Christie and Ben Carson), the calculus for the last reason shifted to "OK, if we oppose this guy who's clearly the grassroots choice, that will destroy the party", and weakened the second reason "OK, we're not going to be able to influence politics at all if we destroy the GOP and hand over the White House and Senate (and possibly even the House) to the Democrats.
So their choice became clear. Would they take a stand against fascism even if it meant losing power, maybe all power, for another four or eight years? It was the final test of whether a formally anti-racist, anti-fascist American conservatism would possibly endure.
They failed that test.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:57 AM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
HISTORIC: Sec. John Kerry Issues Formal Apology To LGBT State Department Staffers For Past Discrimination
@PaulCastilloJD: Where is StateDept change to discrim binary-only policy & apology to @LambdaLegal #intersex client Dana Zzyym for refusal to issue passport?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
@PaulCastilloJD: Where is StateDept change to discrim binary-only policy & apology to @LambdaLegal #intersex client Dana Zzyym for refusal to issue passport?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: I started to write a lengthy metaphor... but then I was overwhelmed with despair.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:01 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:01 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
I keep thinking about how Roger Stone threatened Republican delegates. And I can't help but wonder if some of the candidates got threats too. Blackmail or violence... They folded so easily and so completely, even the ones who initially hated him, and it doesn't make sense to me, still
Remember the RNC was hacked as well. I suspect their emails were juicier than the 'politically correct' liberals.
posted by srboisvert at 12:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Remember the RNC was hacked as well. I suspect their emails were juicier than the 'politically correct' liberals.
posted by srboisvert at 12:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
This is a crisis for the United States not because of regressive policy or diplomatic mayhem or the president-elect's feckless stupidity, paranoia, and narcissism (though those are all real bad) but because the ruling party, with the support of millions of citizens, has no respect for the basic principles of consensual democracy and the rule of law, and potentially limitless power is about to be invested in a megalomaniac doesn't know or care what that even means.
posted by theodolite at 12:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
Remember the RNC was hacked as well. I suspect their emails were juicier than the 'politically correct' liberals.
It's an interesting theory, but (to me, at least) it doesn't pass Occam's razor. I don't need to posit blackmail (either directly from Putin or indirectly from Trump's team using Russian-leaked documents) in order to believe that politicians (particularly GOP politicians) are typically (not always!) craven careerists who will get on board with whatever vehicle they believe will get them to power.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:08 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's an interesting theory, but (to me, at least) it doesn't pass Occam's razor. I don't need to posit blackmail (either directly from Putin or indirectly from Trump's team using Russian-leaked documents) in order to believe that politicians (particularly GOP politicians) are typically (not always!) craven careerists who will get on board with whatever vehicle they believe will get them to power.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:08 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Remember the RNC was hacked as well. I suspect their emails were juicier than the 'politically correct' liberals.
Also, they weren't as motivated to poke around RNC emails as that wasn't the goal. I have no reason to believe this was an equal-opportunity hacking.
posted by armacy at 12:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, they weren't as motivated to poke around RNC emails as that wasn't the goal. I have no reason to believe this was an equal-opportunity hacking.
posted by armacy at 12:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
In a previously-undisclosed letter obtained by POLITICO, McConnell wrote to then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in February 2009, asking for both the FBI and the OGE process to be finished before committee chairmen scheduled a hearing.
Chuck Schumer has made some edits and returned the letter to McConnell.
posted by zachlipton at 12:13 PM on January 9, 2017 [57 favorites]
Chuck Schumer has made some edits and returned the letter to McConnell.
posted by zachlipton at 12:13 PM on January 9, 2017 [57 favorites]
Okay... when I realized there was going to be the Brexit referendum I had a horrible feeling that the Brexiteers were going to win, by a narrow margin. And they did.
Once Trump's Presidential campaign gathered momentum I also thought that he was probably going to win by a narrow margin, for exactly the same reasons. And he did.
This was based on nothing more than intuition, and hearing the way people talk over my lifetime, and knowing that a lot of people are just xenophobic arseholes, plus some more that are not so mean spirited but just aren't very smart either.
But once his campaign was under way I don't know how anyone could think it was not a real possibility that he could win, given the de facto two-party system. I could understand people thinking Jill Stein wouldn't win, but not him.
posted by tel3path at 12:13 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Once Trump's Presidential campaign gathered momentum I also thought that he was probably going to win by a narrow margin, for exactly the same reasons. And he did.
This was based on nothing more than intuition, and hearing the way people talk over my lifetime, and knowing that a lot of people are just xenophobic arseholes, plus some more that are not so mean spirited but just aren't very smart either.
But once his campaign was under way I don't know how anyone could think it was not a real possibility that he could win, given the de facto two-party system. I could understand people thinking Jill Stein wouldn't win, but not him.
posted by tel3path at 12:13 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Chuck Schumer has made some edits and returned the letter to McConnell.
This may be the first time I've ever truly really liked my Senator.
posted by chris24 at 12:16 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
This may be the first time I've ever truly really liked my Senator.
posted by chris24 at 12:16 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
We were ethics lawyers for Bush and Obama. Trump's cabinet hearings must be delayed
[Betsy] DeVos likely has potential conflicts of interest with respect to education. She reportedly invested in K12 Inc, which manages public for-profit online charter schools, and indirectly invested in an online student lending firm. In 2011, the New York Times chronicled the failings of one of the schools managed by K12 Inc, which had nearly 60% of its students behind grade level in math and 50% behind in reading. Whether and to what extent DeVos and/or her husband still invests in these companies is significant for conflicts of interest purposes.
However, there is no public disclosure of these or other any investments in the information included in her Senate nomination paperwork that has been made publicly available. To the contrary, in the public portion of her Senate paperwork, she did not provide detailed information in response to a request for information regarding business relationships, dealings or financial transactions that would constitute a potential conflict of interest.
Here’s Betsy DeVos’s financial disclosure form. Read what Trump’s billionaire education nominee included — and left out.
posted by futz at 12:17 PM on January 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
[Betsy] DeVos likely has potential conflicts of interest with respect to education. She reportedly invested in K12 Inc, which manages public for-profit online charter schools, and indirectly invested in an online student lending firm. In 2011, the New York Times chronicled the failings of one of the schools managed by K12 Inc, which had nearly 60% of its students behind grade level in math and 50% behind in reading. Whether and to what extent DeVos and/or her husband still invests in these companies is significant for conflicts of interest purposes.
However, there is no public disclosure of these or other any investments in the information included in her Senate nomination paperwork that has been made publicly available. To the contrary, in the public portion of her Senate paperwork, she did not provide detailed information in response to a request for information regarding business relationships, dealings or financial transactions that would constitute a potential conflict of interest.
Here’s Betsy DeVos’s financial disclosure form. Read what Trump’s billionaire education nominee included — and left out.
posted by futz at 12:17 PM on January 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
One of the things I'm going to be looking out for, given that Trump will be making a lot of enemies, is journalists and investigators in other countries havng a look at his business dealings. There is zero chance that he is not a repeat offender under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and evidence for things like bribing officials tends to come out as part of other investigations - especially if you're alert for it. And it's something that, say, China could well find expeditious to concentrate on, domestically and internationally.
For reasons explored already, there's a long way between evidence and prosecution especially when the DOJ and AG are run by fellow lizard people. But nonetheless, it will be coming and it will be damaging.
posted by Devonian at 12:22 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
For reasons explored already, there's a long way between evidence and prosecution especially when the DOJ and AG are run by fellow lizard people. But nonetheless, it will be coming and it will be damaging.
posted by Devonian at 12:22 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Republican Party has become a full-on fifth column for Russia.
I think it would be more accurate to say that the Republican Party has gone full-on white nationalist, and is all too happy to give Putin friendship in exchange for his continued support of white nationalist parties across the West.
I think both are part of a much bigger problem of a re-establishment of a trans-national aristocracy.
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think it would be more accurate to say that the Republican Party has gone full-on white nationalist, and is all too happy to give Putin friendship in exchange for his continued support of white nationalist parties across the West.
I think both are part of a much bigger problem of a re-establishment of a trans-national aristocracy.
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's also worth remembering the overarching differences in how the RNC and the DNC assigned delegates
The Republicans also allocated more delegates by winner-take-all, which let Trump get delegates by winning a plurality of votes in some states. For instance, in the early primaries in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada, Trump got 80 delegates (62%) by winning 32.7% of the popular vote. On Super Tuesday, he got 255 delegates (49%) by winning 34.4% of the popular vote. He didn't get above 50% of the popular vote until he won the Northern Mariana Islands on Super Tuesday II (March 15).
After that it was a three-person race between Trump, Cruz, and Kasich. Trump won New York on April 16 with 59% of the popular vote and won the popular vote majority in the remaining primaries. Overall Trump won 69.8% of the delegates by winning 44.95% of the popular vote.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
He couldn't win a majority of the popular vote in the Republican primaries or the general election.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:33 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:33 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
And I could buy the "craven careerism" explanation as the simplest one, if a) Trump were an ordinary politician, however corrupt, which he very clearly is not (ordinary that is), and b) if we didn't know the RNC had also been hacked and the findings not released.
I mean, imagine I were a low-information voter, would I believe the news saying Trump is a criminal and a failed businessman when there he is on The Apprentice, and not in jail? Heck, Martha Stewart went to jail.
And actually, why? Why has he gotten to this point while everyone agrees that he should be stopped, and yet nobody stops him? "His cabinet hearings must be delayed" - well we all know they won't be. Nothing so far that must happen, has actually happened. Laws only have meaning if they're enforced. Why is this guy so golden? Why him?
Nobody with any sense of self-preservation would want him in charge unless there were some other more immediate threat keeping them in line.
posted by tel3path at 12:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, imagine I were a low-information voter, would I believe the news saying Trump is a criminal and a failed businessman when there he is on The Apprentice, and not in jail? Heck, Martha Stewart went to jail.
And actually, why? Why has he gotten to this point while everyone agrees that he should be stopped, and yet nobody stops him? "His cabinet hearings must be delayed" - well we all know they won't be. Nothing so far that must happen, has actually happened. Laws only have meaning if they're enforced. Why is this guy so golden? Why him?
Nobody with any sense of self-preservation would want him in charge unless there were some other more immediate threat keeping them in line.
posted by tel3path at 12:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nobody with any sense of self-preservation would want him in charge unless there were some other more immediate threat keeping them in line.
Congresspersons, more than anyone (especially after the last six years), know how little actual power the President of the United States holds if the rest of the government simply doesn't allow him to hold it. They don't think that he's going to start World War III, so everything else he thinks he wants to do will either be to their benefit (e.g., the wide swaths of the Republican platform that he has agreed with throughout the campaign, such as lower taxes and repealing everything Obama managed to do) or can be stopped if they really want to.
He's not an existential threat to Republicans. At least, not yet.
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Congresspersons, more than anyone (especially after the last six years), know how little actual power the President of the United States holds if the rest of the government simply doesn't allow him to hold it. They don't think that he's going to start World War III, so everything else he thinks he wants to do will either be to their benefit (e.g., the wide swaths of the Republican platform that he has agreed with throughout the campaign, such as lower taxes and repealing everything Obama managed to do) or can be stopped if they really want to.
He's not an existential threat to Republicans. At least, not yet.
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
In so much as the Republicans are humans, he's an existential threat to them. They just don't realize that their bones will glow as brightly as everyone else's. At least, not yet.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:40 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:40 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
Just as with Obama’s soon-to-be-removed international envoys, Trump has ordered Under Secretary for Nuclear Security Frank Klotz and his deputy, Madelyn Creedon—both Obama appointees—to leave their posts, even if it means no one is in charge of maintaining the country’s nuclear weapons.
Interesting fact: the NNSA is also responsible for nuclear forensics. What is nuclear forensics, you ask? From the NNSA themselves:
posted by zombieflanders at 12:44 PM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
Interesting fact: the NNSA is also responsible for nuclear forensics. What is nuclear forensics, you ask? From the NNSA themselves:
The Office of National Technical Nuclear Forensics manages the NNSA's technical nuclear forensics assets and capabilities that support pre-detonation device and post detonation nuclear forensics. The office provides the overall program management and the organizational structure in support of technical nuclear forensics for the personnel, equipment, and activities that make up the program. The office is responsible for developing and maintaining nuclear forensics operational capabilities for improvised nuclear devices and radiological dispersal devices in support of the FBI.In laypeople's terms, this means they're responsible for detecting and analyzing nuclear materials and determining the location and intensity of nuclear detonations, including potential terror attacks. Given the situations in countries like Iran and N. Korea and the disturbing aggressiveness of his potential Secretary of Defense (among others), fucking around with NNSA is shady as hell, to say the least.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:44 PM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
He couldn't win a majority of the popular vote in the Republican primaries or the general election.
And yet we don't live in a world where this matters one bit. Our racist legacy institutions are still doing their intended job, making rule by the white minority all but inevitable in perpetuity.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
And yet we don't live in a world where this matters one bit. Our racist legacy institutions are still doing their intended job, making rule by the white minority all but inevitable in perpetuity.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Given the situations in countries like Iran and N. Korea and the disturbing aggressiveness of his potential Secretary of Defense (among others), fucking around with NNSA is shady as hell, to say the least.
It's not shady, it's just stupid. The Trumpists aren't trying to screw over the NNSA any more than they're trying to screw over every other agency where they've told all the political appointees to fuck off as of 5 p.m. on January 19th.
posted by Etrigan at 12:58 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not shady, it's just stupid. The Trumpists aren't trying to screw over the NNSA any more than they're trying to screw over every other agency where they've told all the political appointees to fuck off as of 5 p.m. on January 19th.
posted by Etrigan at 12:58 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Greg Nog I thought Clinton would win because that's what all the pollsters said and I trusted to their education and skill. Obviously things can go wrong, and a prediction is just that. Also, I think Comey's November Surprise had a big effect. In retrospect that's obvious, but I remember us here on MeFi generally in agreement (me too!) that the public was sick of the emails story and wouldn't care. Turns out we were wrong about that.
Comey's last minute ratfuckery and 35 years of endless Republican smears did in Clinton's run, and at that it only worked because of the archaic evil of the electoral college. But it counts so we're stuck with Trump until we can vote him out in 2020, and please, please let us regain at least one house in Congress come 2018.
But I've got low expectations for 2018, gerrymandering is against us in the House, and the Senators up for reelection are against us in the Senate.
Unless Trump manages to make things much worse very quickly we may scrambling just to hold the status quo in Congress (especially the Senate).
Still, all we can do is fight. Take the next step, and the one after that, and so on until either we die or win.
posted by sotonohito at 1:00 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey's last minute ratfuckery and 35 years of endless Republican smears did in Clinton's run, and at that it only worked because of the archaic evil of the electoral college. But it counts so we're stuck with Trump until we can vote him out in 2020, and please, please let us regain at least one house in Congress come 2018.
But I've got low expectations for 2018, gerrymandering is against us in the House, and the Senators up for reelection are against us in the Senate.
Unless Trump manages to make things much worse very quickly we may scrambling just to hold the status quo in Congress (especially the Senate).
Still, all we can do is fight. Take the next step, and the one after that, and so on until either we die or win.
posted by sotonohito at 1:00 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wonder if part of the reason for pushing out all of the political appointees so quickly is to make it necessary to streamline the new appointees.
posted by drezdn at 1:04 PM on January 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 1:04 PM on January 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
I had the same thought. Quick rubber-stamping of nominees becomes necessary to address a "crisis" of vacant ambassadorships/national security posts/etc. and it makes enough intuitive sense that those posts become vacant when a new administration takes over that the This Is Not Normal refrain can't take hold.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:06 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:06 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
My thought is that by kicking out so many appointees, and not filling them he can claim government reduction as some poor lackey tries to do the job of 4 or 5 people to no avail.
Something stupid will eventually happen, but depending on how long it takes, it would look good for government reduction.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Something stupid will eventually happen, but depending on how long it takes, it would look good for government reduction.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well you know how, on the green, people will occasionally pop up with a question like "My line manager comes up to me and bites the heads off live rats and spits them across the room and goes 'your children will be next'. I'm pretty sure he's taking credit for my work and maybe trying to get me fired. What should I do?"
And the answer is usually "keep your dignity and stay drama free. People will easily see what kind of person he is."
So what!
From personal experience, someone can be deeply unpopular and universally recognized for the person he is, but he'll still get his way regardless that everyone agrees he's lying and should probably be behind bars. There are only 3 possible explanations for this:
1. everyone is spineless and will let the rat head biter get his way simply because he wants it;
2. everyone shares the rat head biter's values, secretly or openly, and they're content to let him be the bad cop;
3. everyone is afraid of the rat head biter and is just glad it's you and not them.
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
And the answer is usually "keep your dignity and stay drama free. People will easily see what kind of person he is."
So what!
From personal experience, someone can be deeply unpopular and universally recognized for the person he is, but he'll still get his way regardless that everyone agrees he's lying and should probably be behind bars. There are only 3 possible explanations for this:
1. everyone is spineless and will let the rat head biter get his way simply because he wants it;
2. everyone shares the rat head biter's values, secretly or openly, and they're content to let him be the bad cop;
3. everyone is afraid of the rat head biter and is just glad it's you and not them.
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
We'd like to thank you, Jimmy Comey, for really showing us the way. You dirty rat, you bureaucrat, you got us where we are today!
/s
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
/s
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The democratic system of the US allowed Trump to become president. I do not believe any more that that system will survive until elections as normal in 2020. The question seems rather to be how much will it change? There will be many pockets of administrative resistance, and with those, power shifts (as noted above). I don't think you can predict the outcome. But I do think that the series of academic articles stemming from BO are much more important than any thought of it as the scribblings of an absurdly diligent scholar. They are political statements, made with great care. They reflect an attempt to put down something that will withstand politics,.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
>PresidentialTrump
One of the simplest and most incisive criticisms of the man I've seen yet. Brilliant, thanks for sharing.
posted by Rykey at 1:13 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
One of the simplest and most incisive criticisms of the man I've seen yet. Brilliant, thanks for sharing.
posted by Rykey at 1:13 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
U.S. to Blacklist 5 Russians, a Close Putin Aide Among Them
The Obama administration plans to blacklist five Russians, including the government’s chief public investigator who is a close aide to President Vladimir V. Putin, for human rights abuses, throwing down a gauntlet to President-elect Donald J. Trump nearly two weeks before he takes office with a promise to thaw relations with Russia.
posted by futz at 1:18 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Obama administration plans to blacklist five Russians, including the government’s chief public investigator who is a close aide to President Vladimir V. Putin, for human rights abuses, throwing down a gauntlet to President-elect Donald J. Trump nearly two weeks before he takes office with a promise to thaw relations with Russia.
posted by futz at 1:18 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
And if you want those institutions changed, the first step is making it clear that this doesn't matter, by talking about how Trump lost the popular vote -- a fact that he still has not accepted, and has repeatedly lied about.
There's no incentive for Republican controlled states to ever agree to change the EC. They're the permanent beneficiaries. Twice in 16 years the EC has awarded them illegitimate presidents. And the forces that resulted in that outcome, Democratic votes wasted by being compressed and concentrated into relatively small urban areas, will only get worse. Further the same trend will block any attempt to change it absent a miracle ruling by SCOTUS against partisan gerrymandering.
Assuming the US survives, the President winning the EC while losing the popular vote is more likely to become a permanent fixture of the political landscape than changing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:18 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
There's no incentive for Republican controlled states to ever agree to change the EC. They're the permanent beneficiaries. Twice in 16 years the EC has awarded them illegitimate presidents. And the forces that resulted in that outcome, Democratic votes wasted by being compressed and concentrated into relatively small urban areas, will only get worse. Further the same trend will block any attempt to change it absent a miracle ruling by SCOTUS against partisan gerrymandering.
Assuming the US survives, the President winning the EC while losing the popular vote is more likely to become a permanent fixture of the political landscape than changing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:18 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Update to my Montana Nazi newspaper article ragestorm from earlier today:
The Missoulian published an editorial response just a minute ago due to the spontaneous explosion of outrage at yesterday's failure of journalism. While still a weak-sauce non-retraction non-apology, it's somewhat encouraging that they're responding quickly to this criticism and with at least a little thoughtfulness.
If they keep getting push-back for their fuckups on this matter they might eventually learn something. However from the tone of the editorial they do not yet understand the scale and immediacy of the threat. They're still living in the world from before the man went down the escalator.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Missoulian published an editorial response just a minute ago due to the spontaneous explosion of outrage at yesterday's failure of journalism. While still a weak-sauce non-retraction non-apology, it's somewhat encouraging that they're responding quickly to this criticism and with at least a little thoughtfulness.
If they keep getting push-back for their fuckups on this matter they might eventually learn something. However from the tone of the editorial they do not yet understand the scale and immediacy of the threat. They're still living in the world from before the man went down the escalator.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
So, the Republicans get their way and cut a ton of government programs putting thousands of people out of work and adding them to the ranks of the unemployed.
With less money going into health care as people opt to not take care or are forced to take care of elderly relatives themselves, there will be fewer jobs in that field,.
In the next bunch of years, we're going to see more things like this, where companies replace employees with A.I.. In that case, its insurance workers, but lawyers, doctors and other white collar workers are facing some worrisome disruption.
Population is growing. Work opportunities are shrinking. This will happen no matter who is in the White House, but Don President is uniquely unqualified to handle this.
One solution here is a massive pre-emptive WPA type project, but I think the very rich wouldn't want to pay into this (even though, in the long run, it might be the only way to save themselves and their families from the guillotines should starvation and rioting kick in in our post-jobs economy).
I feel like I need to be stocking up on cat food and diabetes medication before things start to get really bad. I wonder where I can safely store 15 years worth of cat food where starving humans won't find it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
With less money going into health care as people opt to not take care or are forced to take care of elderly relatives themselves, there will be fewer jobs in that field,.
In the next bunch of years, we're going to see more things like this, where companies replace employees with A.I.. In that case, its insurance workers, but lawyers, doctors and other white collar workers are facing some worrisome disruption.
Population is growing. Work opportunities are shrinking. This will happen no matter who is in the White House, but Don President is uniquely unqualified to handle this.
One solution here is a massive pre-emptive WPA type project, but I think the very rich wouldn't want to pay into this (even though, in the long run, it might be the only way to save themselves and their families from the guillotines should starvation and rioting kick in in our post-jobs economy).
I feel like I need to be stocking up on cat food and diabetes medication before things start to get really bad. I wonder where I can safely store 15 years worth of cat food where starving humans won't find it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
The main argument I've heard conservatives give against replacing or getting rid of the EC is that it would give cities and the West Coast too much weight over rural areas, and the way things are is more "fair".
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
And as we have seen that fairness works out as being a massive security risk and super gameable.
posted by Artw at 1:29 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:29 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's idiotic as Texas, North Carolina, and Florida are in the top six most populous states.
posted by asteria at 1:30 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by asteria at 1:30 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's idiotic as Texas, North Carolina, and Florida are in the top six most populous states.
I also think it's super convenient that "fair" is only "fair" when the EC works for them. I doubt they'd use that argument if the popular/electoral situation was reversed. "The People wanted Trump! It's the elites' fault!"
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
I also think it's super convenient that "fair" is only "fair" when the EC works for them. I doubt they'd use that argument if the popular/electoral situation was reversed. "The People wanted Trump! It's the elites' fault!"
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
In laypeople's terms, this means they're responsible for detecting and analyzing nuclear materials and determining the location and intensity of nuclear detonations, including potential terror attacks. Given the situations in countries like Iran and N. Korea and the disturbing aggressiveness of his potential Secretary of Defense (among others), fucking around with NNSA is shady as hell, to say the least.
Nuclear Forensics sound like a lot of liberal hoopla
A-bombs go off, radiation comes out, you can't explain that
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Nuclear Forensics sound like a lot of liberal hoopla
A-bombs go off, radiation comes out, you can't explain that
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Vagina dentata wheelchair hubcap painted and affixed.
Plus a confused and possibly judgmental pussy in the background.
Gonna tweet it at DJT and tell him he's inspiring Great Art.
posted by angrycat at 1:43 PM on January 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
Plus a confused and possibly judgmental pussy in the background.
Gonna tweet it at DJT and tell him he's inspiring Great Art.
posted by angrycat at 1:43 PM on January 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
The main argument I've heard conservatives give against replacing or getting rid of the EC is that it would give cities and the West Coast too much weight over rural areas, and the way things are is more "fair".
The Senate and House gerrymandering already massively over value rural votes, the Presidency slightly weighted in the other direction would actually work to counterbalance the legislature which is largely controlled by land area rather than actual humans.
But Republicans have to have every single card stacked in their favor, so the argument is a non-starter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:44 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Senate and House gerrymandering already massively over value rural votes, the Presidency slightly weighted in the other direction would actually work to counterbalance the legislature which is largely controlled by land area rather than actual humans.
But Republicans have to have every single card stacked in their favor, so the argument is a non-starter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:44 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
it might be the only way to save themselves and their families from the guillotines should starvation and rioting kick in in
surveillance and urban pacification technology has come a long way since 1793
posted by entropicamericana at 1:46 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
surveillance and urban pacification technology has come a long way since 1793
posted by entropicamericana at 1:46 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's also not clear why tyranny of the rural over cities is preferable to the opposite situation, when cities account for a vast majority of economic output.
Other than that's how it was set up to begin with to appease slave holding states, and currently benefits the actual and intellectual descendants of slave owners.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Other than that's how it was set up to begin with to appease slave holding states, and currently benefits the actual and intellectual descendants of slave owners.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
getting rid of the EC is that it would give cities and the West Coast too much weight over rural areas,
I recently heard it put as " an alliance of city states and their vassal territories"
posted by ridgerunner at 1:49 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I recently heard it put as " an alliance of city states and their vassal territories"
posted by ridgerunner at 1:49 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
The cities pay for the existence of the rural areas, and in their gratitude the rural areas ruthlessly abuse the cities and declare those within to be subhuman traitors. It's equitable, really.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:49 PM on January 9, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:49 PM on January 9, 2017 [63 favorites]
That's idiotic as Texas, North Carolina, and Florida are in the top six most populous states.
If there wasn't a +2 bonus to all states Hillary would have had to flip PA and MI versus PA, MI, and WI for the current electoral college. The bonus for small states most certainly favors Republicans in aggregate.
posted by Talez at 1:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
If there wasn't a +2 bonus to all states Hillary would have had to flip PA and MI versus PA, MI, and WI for the current electoral college. The bonus for small states most certainly favors Republicans in aggregate.
posted by Talez at 1:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
whoa the PEOTUS has blocked me on twitter! I feel so proud /wipes away tear.
posted by angrycat at 1:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [110 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [110 favorites]
Yeah I'm not counting on guillotines but on them not knowing what to do when their service staff is all dead and no one can make them mojitos by the pool or steer their yachts. They'll die when the food runs out, or possibly when they just start killing each other or setting themselves on fire by accident. Or they'll die with the rest of us when the nukes go off.
I mean, I'll be dead by then so I won't get to see it but a girl can dream.
posted by emjaybee at 1:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, I'll be dead by then so I won't get to see it but a girl can dream.
posted by emjaybee at 1:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
ExxonMobil and Iran did business under Secretary of State nominee Tillerson, despite sanctions.
posted by StrawberryPie at 1:54 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by StrawberryPie at 1:54 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
I feel like I need to be stocking up on cat food and diabetes medication before things start to get really bad. I wonder where I can safely store 15 years worth of cat food where starving humans won't find it.
First, 15 years is too big. A couple years is enough. Coupled with this, learn to grow vegetables.
Secondly, don't hide it in all the same places. This is the not all eggs in the same basket principle.
Third, don't tell anyone. Maybe your spouse if they are trustworthy.
Fourth, learn from criminals. When you live in the up-side down, criminals are heroes and visa-versa.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 1:55 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
First, 15 years is too big. A couple years is enough. Coupled with this, learn to grow vegetables.
Secondly, don't hide it in all the same places. This is the not all eggs in the same basket principle.
Third, don't tell anyone. Maybe your spouse if they are trustworthy.
Fourth, learn from criminals. When you live in the up-side down, criminals are heroes and visa-versa.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 1:55 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
ExxonMobil and Iran did business under Secretary of State nominee Tillerson, despite sanctions.
What's the R logic twist going to be on this one? "Iran isn't so bad. They worship the same god as us, do it devoutly, and the women aren't allowed to be whores. We've had it so wrong!"
posted by Talez at 1:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
What's the R logic twist going to be on this one? "Iran isn't so bad. They worship the same god as us, do it devoutly, and the women aren't allowed to be whores. We've had it so wrong!"
posted by Talez at 1:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, god, please no bullshit about urban areas "ruling" over rural areas. It's objectively wrong, and if it had even the barest whiff of being true, Democrats would have permanent legislative majorities and the Presidency at the federal level, with essentially the same system in the majority of states. The actual situation is almost the exact reverse.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
i just said I heard it already. It's the Repubs preemptive sound bite.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:00 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ridgerunner at 2:00 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, at a policy level, there is simply no contest that rural areas hold the most power.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:00 PM on January 9, 2017
posted by zombieflanders at 2:00 PM on January 9, 2017
Rudy Giuliani apparently has a consulting firm that has 'chosen' Blackberry phones as being safe from the cyber. Or some shit.
Seriously, I was just curious where The Rude had gone and poof looks like he's out of the gang but Don's gonna grift a lotta pork his way for doing the cyber now.
And cyber crime is becoming a larger part of Giuliani Partner’s consulting businesses. “A lot of consulting has involved cyber.”
cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber MUSHroom MUSHroom cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber . . .
posted by petebest at 2:01 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Seriously, I was just curious where The Rude had gone and poof looks like he's out of the gang but Don's gonna grift a lotta pork his way for doing the cyber now.
And cyber crime is becoming a larger part of Giuliani Partner’s consulting businesses. “A lot of consulting has involved cyber.”
cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber MUSHroom MUSHroom cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber . . .
posted by petebest at 2:01 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
What's the R logic twist going to be on this one?
Just another item to be swept under the rug. As McConnell said, the rest of us just "need to sort of grow up" about what's happening.
posted by StrawberryPie at 2:02 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just another item to be swept under the rug. As McConnell said, the rest of us just "need to sort of grow up" about what's happening.
posted by StrawberryPie at 2:02 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
What's the R logic twist going to be on this one? "Iran isn't so bad. They worship the same god as us, do it devoutly, and the women aren't allowed to be whores. We've had it so wrong!"
"Russia is friends with Iran, they can't be all that bad"
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:02 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Russia is friends with Iran, they can't be all that bad"
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:02 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
i just said I heard it already. It's the Repubs preemptive sound bite.
It's their way to get people on their side when they inevitably ask to reinstate slave labor.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:02 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's their way to get people on their side when they inevitably ask to reinstate slave labor.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:02 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh this is just too perfect: Changing His Tune? Trump Praised 'Excellent' Meryl Streep In 2015
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
“Julia Roberts is terrific, and many others," he told THR. "Meryl Streep is excellent; she’s a fine person, too. The problem is I’ll name three or four or five [actresses] and then the hundred that I know will be insulted, and I don’t mean to insult them.”Less than a year and a half to go from "excellent" and "fine person" to "one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood."
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
inevitably ask to reinstate slave labor.
Slave labor is still legal, its why vagrancy is a crime.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Slave labor is still legal, its why vagrancy is a crime.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Just as with Obama’s soon-to-be-removed international envoys, Trump has ordered Under Secretary for Nuclear Security Frank Klotz and his deputy, Madelyn Creedon—both Obama appointees—to leave their posts, even if it means no one is in charge of maintaining the country’s nuclear weapons. posted by Unicorn on the cob
I wonder if part of the reason for pushing out all of the political appointees so quickly is to make it necessary to streamline the new appointees. posted by drezdn
I had the same thought. Quick rubber-stamping of nominees becomes necessary to address a "crisis" of vacant ambassadorships/national security posts/etc. and it makes enough intuitive sense that those posts become vacant when a new administration takes over that the This Is Not Normal refrain can't take hold. posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish
Sooo... this is Donald's "business model" for getting things done at Capitol Hill? Leave the nukes unattended indefinitely until his handpicked cabinet is okayed?
Yeah, I've seen this tough guy business model.
My children tried this until "have a screaming fit in the store until I get my way" was severely discouraged. Hopefully there are enough parents in the confirmation hearings to know how this works.
posted by TrishaU at 2:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I wonder if part of the reason for pushing out all of the political appointees so quickly is to make it necessary to streamline the new appointees. posted by drezdn
I had the same thought. Quick rubber-stamping of nominees becomes necessary to address a "crisis" of vacant ambassadorships/national security posts/etc. and it makes enough intuitive sense that those posts become vacant when a new administration takes over that the This Is Not Normal refrain can't take hold. posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish
Sooo... this is Donald's "business model" for getting things done at Capitol Hill? Leave the nukes unattended indefinitely until his handpicked cabinet is okayed?
Yeah, I've seen this tough guy business model.
My children tried this until "have a screaming fit in the store until I get my way" was severely discouraged. Hopefully there are enough parents in the confirmation hearings to know how this works.
posted by TrishaU at 2:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Long before this election, the massive rural over representation baked into the Senate and increasingly enmeshed in the House thanks to gerrymandering, has had me worried for the long term survival of the USA.
We are becoming increasingly urban, most of the money comes from the cities, and most of the population lives in cities.
The abuse from rural areas won't be tolerated forever, and I don't see any actual solution other than dissolving the USA. The rural empowered governments won't give up their illegitimate power voluntarily.
Is there really no other way out of this mess?
Assuming Trump doesn't declare himself President for Life, because then we've got the much more urgent problem of civil war to contend with, I'm not really seeing a legislative path forward here. Even getting more Democrats elected locally won't actually solve the problem because I don't really see an Iowa Democratic politician voting to cut Iowa's influence back down to match its population. We can't even get the Party to agree to reschedule primaries.
So what can be done?
posted by sotonohito at 2:14 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
We are becoming increasingly urban, most of the money comes from the cities, and most of the population lives in cities.
The abuse from rural areas won't be tolerated forever, and I don't see any actual solution other than dissolving the USA. The rural empowered governments won't give up their illegitimate power voluntarily.
Is there really no other way out of this mess?
Assuming Trump doesn't declare himself President for Life, because then we've got the much more urgent problem of civil war to contend with, I'm not really seeing a legislative path forward here. Even getting more Democrats elected locally won't actually solve the problem because I don't really see an Iowa Democratic politician voting to cut Iowa's influence back down to match its population. We can't even get the Party to agree to reschedule primaries.
So what can be done?
posted by sotonohito at 2:14 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Member him?
How Donald Trump totally destroyed Chris Christie
Christie made a giant gamble when he decided to endorse Trump way back in February 2016. And he doubled/tripled/quadrupled down on that bet for the next nine months, essentially abandoning New Jersey — where his poll numbers plummeted — in search of a plum job within Trump's inner circle and/or Cabinet. . . .
Christie's miscalculation came in assuming that absolute fealty and submission to Trump's views was what the businessman wanted. Trump, in fact, seems to revel in creating discord and disagreement within his advisers — and even himself. . . .
That Trump has now hired someone who was cast aside by Christie amid the controversy that hobbled his own presidential bid feels like the cherry on top of a rancid sundae that Christie has been choking down for the last year.
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
How Donald Trump totally destroyed Chris Christie
Christie made a giant gamble when he decided to endorse Trump way back in February 2016. And he doubled/tripled/quadrupled down on that bet for the next nine months, essentially abandoning New Jersey — where his poll numbers plummeted — in search of a plum job within Trump's inner circle and/or Cabinet. . . .
Christie's miscalculation came in assuming that absolute fealty and submission to Trump's views was what the businessman wanted. Trump, in fact, seems to revel in creating discord and disagreement within his advisers — and even himself. . . .
That Trump has now hired someone who was cast aside by Christie amid the controversy that hobbled his own presidential bid feels like the cherry on top of a rancid sundae that Christie has been choking down for the last year.
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
> How Donald Trump totally destroyed Chris Christie
*plays "Born to Run" on the world's tiniest violin*
posted by tonycpsu at 2:22 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
*plays "Born to Run" on the world's tiniest violin*
posted by tonycpsu at 2:22 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
Dr. Emmett Brown: Then tell me, future boy, who's President of the United States in 2017?
Marty McFly: Donald Trump.
Dr. Emmett Brown: Donald Trump? The short-fingered vulgarian?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Marty McFly: Donald Trump.
Dr. Emmett Brown: Donald Trump? The short-fingered vulgarian?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
If you still have any respect left for (NeverTrumper) Condalezza Rice, I've got some bad news for you.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
So Back to the Future did come true after all.
Except instead of the cool future with hoverboards and Jaws 19, we're stuck in the bad one ruled by Biff Tannen.
Go figure.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Except instead of the cool future with hoverboards and Jaws 19, we're stuck in the bad one ruled by Biff Tannen.
Go figure.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, she was involved in approving the use of torture and repeatedly blurred the lines between Iraq and 9/11 to mislead the American people, so no, not a lot of respect left for Rice.
Meanwhile, Mother Jones has an interesting story: Jeff Sessions Has a History of Blocking Black Judges.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
Meanwhile, Mother Jones has an interesting story: Jeff Sessions Has a History of Blocking Black Judges.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
So Back to the Future did come true after all.
Except instead of the cool future with hoverboards and Jaws 19, we're stuck in the bad one ruled by Biff Tannen.
All too true. ‘Back to the Future’ Writer: Biff Tannen Is Based on Donald Trump
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:38 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
Except instead of the cool future with hoverboards and Jaws 19, we're stuck in the bad one ruled by Biff Tannen.
All too true. ‘Back to the Future’ Writer: Biff Tannen Is Based on Donald Trump
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:38 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
The main argument I've heard conservatives give against replacing or getting rid of the EC is that it would give cities and the West Coast too much weight over rural areas, and the way things are is more "fair".
Democracy was based on the idea of one person one vote, not on square footage. Why are sparsely populated rural whites the aggrieved group that needs extra votes. Why not actual oppressed minorities? Why don't we give Native Americans, or African Americans, or Hispanics the extra votes? Why just rural whites?
I think the answer is rather obvious.
posted by JackFlash at 2:42 PM on January 9, 2017 [56 favorites]
Democracy was based on the idea of one person one vote, not on square footage. Why are sparsely populated rural whites the aggrieved group that needs extra votes. Why not actual oppressed minorities? Why don't we give Native Americans, or African Americans, or Hispanics the extra votes? Why just rural whites?
I think the answer is rather obvious.
posted by JackFlash at 2:42 PM on January 9, 2017 [56 favorites]
Matt Taibbi: Trump Nominee Jay Clayton Will Be the Most Conflicted SEC Chair Ever. America's incoming top cop on finance is literally married to industry
posted by homunculus at 2:49 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 2:49 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sen. McConnell sent Sen. Reid a letter on nominations in 2009. We updated the dates and names and sent it back.
Unlikely to have any effect on the utterly shameless, but nicely done anyhow.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Unlikely to have any effect on the utterly shameless, but nicely done anyhow.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
More Betsy DeVos.
Here’s what Elizabeth Warren wants to know from Trump’s education pick
Warren's 16 page letter to Devos.
Democratic senators press Trump’s education pick Betsy DeVos to pay years-old $5.3 million fine
A group of Senate Democrats is urging President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for education secretary, Betsy DeVos, to pay $5.3 million in fines imposed on her political action committee for campaign finance violations in Ohio eight years ago.
“As secretary of education, Betsy DeVos would be responsible for overseeing the nation’s student loan program, including ensuring that students repay their loans, so it’s troubling that she has blatantly ignored her own PAC’s debt to the people of Ohio,” said Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.). “When a student borrower defaults, it has serious ramifications that haunt that student for years — yet when DeVos’s PAC defaulted on its fine for violating the law, they just walked away.”
posted by futz at 3:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Here’s what Elizabeth Warren wants to know from Trump’s education pick
Warren's 16 page letter to Devos.
Democratic senators press Trump’s education pick Betsy DeVos to pay years-old $5.3 million fine
A group of Senate Democrats is urging President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for education secretary, Betsy DeVos, to pay $5.3 million in fines imposed on her political action committee for campaign finance violations in Ohio eight years ago.
“As secretary of education, Betsy DeVos would be responsible for overseeing the nation’s student loan program, including ensuring that students repay their loans, so it’s troubling that she has blatantly ignored her own PAC’s debt to the people of Ohio,” said Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.). “When a student borrower defaults, it has serious ramifications that haunt that student for years — yet when DeVos’s PAC defaulted on its fine for violating the law, they just walked away.”
posted by futz at 3:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
I wonder where I can safely store 15 years worth of cat food where starving humans won't find it
libraries? public schools? you know, abandoned places.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
libraries? public schools? you know, abandoned places.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
When I have my library job, they'll take it over my dead body.
(Considers stashing and openly recommending books that the Trump regime would probably like to go Fahrenheit 451 on.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:15 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Considers stashing and openly recommending books that the Trump regime would probably like to go Fahrenheit 451 on.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:15 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
White nationalism normalized: Politico co-founder (and Axios founder) Mike Allen offers effusive praise for Breitbart "Axios’ first morning newsletter, authored by Allen and published on Monday, contains lots of praise for Trump, who he describes as having “done more than any POTUS-elect ever.”"
So Mike Allen is going full Trumpist shill. Noted for future reference as a collaborator.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
So Mike Allen is going full Trumpist shill. Noted for future reference as a collaborator.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
And there goes the last drop of respect I had for Politico.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Once upon a time, this phrasing would have been very funny here.
posted by Brainy at 3:24 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 3:24 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump, who he describes as having “done more than any POTUS-elect ever.”
Well, it's kind of true... there aren't too many presidents-elect who managed to piss off one major nuclear power, toady up to the other and throw the viability of NATO into question, while also of course taking time out from fucking with global geopolitics to get cussed out by a former Mexican president on Twitter and to call Meryl Streep 'overrated', all in the few short months between their election and inauguration.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Well, it's kind of true... there aren't too many presidents-elect who managed to piss off one major nuclear power, toady up to the other and throw the viability of NATO into question, while also of course taking time out from fucking with global geopolitics to get cussed out by a former Mexican president on Twitter and to call Meryl Streep 'overrated', all in the few short months between their election and inauguration.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
So, I'm guessing many/most of the repubs are shocked at all they've gotten away with, and just get more brazen as no charges are brought and no consequences are felt. So, I see the (good) people posting their very reasonable outrage, but unless some folks who have some power left actually create consequences, I don't see anything - appeals to reason or decency among the things - making a whit of difference. Totally willing (hoping) to hear that this isn't true, by the way.
posted by Glinn at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mike Allen was one of those present at the December Mar-a-Lago "off the record" press event, so this outcome is unsurprising.
posted by Superplin at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's also not clear why tyranny of the rural over cities is preferable to the opposite situation, when cities account for a vast majority of economic output.
We have a similar situation in Australia (probably copied from the USA) and so does Europe.
The people who designed the US's federal system were racist elitists, at least by our standards, and many of them did own slaves; but the fundamental logic of rural over-weighting is hard to argue with: it is a necessary compromise to persuade rural areas to join a federation. Urban and rural citizens' interests will often diverge, and rural votes will tend to be negated unless their interests are over-represented. That's unfair to urban areas, but it's balanced by the financial, structural, and strategic benefits that come from incorporating the rural areas. You talk about the economic output of the cities, but that output relies on the resources (food, minerals, energy, clean air), geographic continuity, and defensibility of the contiguous United States.
The argument used by the USA's founders was that it would form a "commonwealth"; that is, a federation in which all the constituent states are enriched. We've heard a lot about the very real medical and financial problems of rural areas in the USA: I think it's a tragedy that Republican state governments seem to have purposefully immiserated their citizens. I half wonder if this is a purposeful strategy, both to enrage them and to discourage immigration. Perversely, this strategy may negate the logic of over-weighting rural areas' votes: what's the point, if it doesn't actually serve the rural voters' interests?
Trump's victory in the Electoral College was exaggerated by the winner-takes-all system used by most States. Without it, his victory would have more closely reflected the true national sentiment, which was actually pretty evenly split. I'm amazed that nearly half USAns voted for the yammering yam, but there it is. That's the real problem, not the relatively-small boost given by rural over-weighting.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
We have a similar situation in Australia (probably copied from the USA) and so does Europe.
The people who designed the US's federal system were racist elitists, at least by our standards, and many of them did own slaves; but the fundamental logic of rural over-weighting is hard to argue with: it is a necessary compromise to persuade rural areas to join a federation. Urban and rural citizens' interests will often diverge, and rural votes will tend to be negated unless their interests are over-represented. That's unfair to urban areas, but it's balanced by the financial, structural, and strategic benefits that come from incorporating the rural areas. You talk about the economic output of the cities, but that output relies on the resources (food, minerals, energy, clean air), geographic continuity, and defensibility of the contiguous United States.
The argument used by the USA's founders was that it would form a "commonwealth"; that is, a federation in which all the constituent states are enriched. We've heard a lot about the very real medical and financial problems of rural areas in the USA: I think it's a tragedy that Republican state governments seem to have purposefully immiserated their citizens. I half wonder if this is a purposeful strategy, both to enrage them and to discourage immigration. Perversely, this strategy may negate the logic of over-weighting rural areas' votes: what's the point, if it doesn't actually serve the rural voters' interests?
Trump's victory in the Electoral College was exaggerated by the winner-takes-all system used by most States. Without it, his victory would have more closely reflected the true national sentiment, which was actually pretty evenly split. I'm amazed that nearly half USAns voted for the yammering yam, but there it is. That's the real problem, not the relatively-small boost given by rural over-weighting.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Hey, here's an idea for what to call him that might satisfy everyone. How about if we refer to him as President At Donald Trump?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I know that the gown/dress lie has already been mentioned but I had to post this.
Not only, it seems, are dresses in stock, but people aren’t flocking to the stores to pick them up, either.
“We have not gotten a huge influx of traffic specifically related to shopping for inaugural dresses,” Anastasia Thomas, an employee at Betsy Fisher, a D.C. women’s wear shop, said.
In fact, Peter Marx, owner of Saks Jandel, a D.C. area boutique, told PEOPLE that there have been fewer people seeking inaugural gowns.
“There’s never been less demand for inaugural ballgowns in my 38 years,” Marx told PEOPLE.
“Never ever has it been less for the inaugural.”
posted by futz at 3:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
Not only, it seems, are dresses in stock, but people aren’t flocking to the stores to pick them up, either.
“We have not gotten a huge influx of traffic specifically related to shopping for inaugural dresses,” Anastasia Thomas, an employee at Betsy Fisher, a D.C. women’s wear shop, said.
In fact, Peter Marx, owner of Saks Jandel, a D.C. area boutique, told PEOPLE that there have been fewer people seeking inaugural gowns.
“There’s never been less demand for inaugural ballgowns in my 38 years,” Marx told PEOPLE.
“Never ever has it been less for the inaugural.”
posted by futz at 3:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
but I like calling him Toupee Fiasco
posted by pxe2000 at 3:55 PM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 3:55 PM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
needs more shitgibbon
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was lying in bed last night, reading this rather innocuous book, written by a man who'd spent his youth working at a resort on the Maine coast, to help pay for his college education.
At one point, he served a wealthy man from Away, and asked the more seasoned, older employee about him.
"He's in politics," she replied. "That's what rich men do, of course, to protect their money."
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
At one point, he served a wealthy man from Away, and asked the more seasoned, older employee about him.
"He's in politics," she replied. "That's what rich men do, of course, to protect their money."
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
You talk about the economic output of the cities, but that output relies on the resources (food, minerals, energy, clean air), geographic continuity, and defensibility of the contiguous United States.
And heavily compensates the rural tyrants for their suffering and outsized influence.
It's clear who got the better end of the deal, 300 year later.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:06 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
And heavily compensates the rural tyrants for their suffering and outsized influence.
It's clear who got the better end of the deal, 300 year later.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:06 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
The thing is that at the time the US was founded, the vast majority of Americans did live in the countryside -- almost 95% at the 1790 census. In a nation of 3.8 million people, the largest city was the thriving metropolis of New York, whose population had now swollen to 33,191 (though it looks like Philadelphia might have been bigger when counting areas that weren't formally incorporated into the city proper at that time).
The partisan divide between urban and rural didn't happen until later, and even if it had -- cities were tiny!
I think the better explanation is that basing representation on a census count, apportioned by total state population, makes it easier to inflate slave-state representation by counting the almost 700,000 slaves, even if they only count for 3/5....
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
The partisan divide between urban and rural didn't happen until later, and even if it had -- cities were tiny!
I think the better explanation is that basing representation on a census count, apportioned by total state population, makes it easier to inflate slave-state representation by counting the almost 700,000 slaves, even if they only count for 3/5....
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
so I had a convo with the SO about DJT blocking me that went something like
AC: Wanna hear something funny? Trump blocked me on twitter!
SO: Why?
AC: (thinking) I dunno, I guess, well, I've been really angry on twitter
SO: (the silence of a man who is wondering when the USSS will be knocking on the door)
I explained the worst had been the vagina dentata thing, and it hadn't been phrased like "my vagina teeth will eat you, Sr Donald" or anything like that.
But it got me thinking: I've been tweeting articles, from the NYT and other pieces mostly from this thread, and I've been hash tagging them with #theResistance/womensmarch/whyImarch
So either somebody is taking some time a) blocking everybody who has tweeted a link to a critical article or b) using the hashtags to make a block list
Which is shudder-inducing. I mean, I'm still all come and get me bro, but it's like--how many appointments do they have to fill? How many vetting things need to be done? But somebody has prioritized the making of a fucking stupid fucking twitter blacklist and taking the time to go block-block-block-block.
How fucking banality of evil can you get.
posted by angrycat at 4:24 PM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
AC: Wanna hear something funny? Trump blocked me on twitter!
SO: Why?
AC: (thinking) I dunno, I guess, well, I've been really angry on twitter
SO: (the silence of a man who is wondering when the USSS will be knocking on the door)
I explained the worst had been the vagina dentata thing, and it hadn't been phrased like "my vagina teeth will eat you, Sr Donald" or anything like that.
But it got me thinking: I've been tweeting articles, from the NYT and other pieces mostly from this thread, and I've been hash tagging them with #theResistance/womensmarch/whyImarch
So either somebody is taking some time a) blocking everybody who has tweeted a link to a critical article or b) using the hashtags to make a block list
Which is shudder-inducing. I mean, I'm still all come and get me bro, but it's like--how many appointments do they have to fill? How many vetting things need to be done? But somebody has prioritized the making of a fucking stupid fucking twitter blacklist and taking the time to go block-block-block-block.
How fucking banality of evil can you get.
posted by angrycat at 4:24 PM on January 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
Oh, don't feel bad Angrycat, I cursed him with all of my Scottish ancestors. Not blocked, because I am no one, but I did lay on a curse. And for Bannon also. He was a special curse, separate from the original one, and I don't talk about it. I just did it, and let the chips fall where they may.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
i've been telling him to fuck himself for a month. maybe i'm using words that are too big?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:40 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:40 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Angrycat, do you know if Twitter has some sort of automated blocking service, or has someone literally been going "blockblockblock" on Trump's account. Because if it's the latter, it would be really hilarious though sad.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:41 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:41 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm amazed that nearly half USAns voted for the yammering yam, but there it is. That's the real problem, not the relatively-small boost given by rural over-weighting.
They didn't, though. Trump got 62,979,636 votes (still a horrifyingly large number, I'll grant you) out of a pool of eligible voters numbering 231,556,622. That's not nearly half. That's barely a quarter, and pretending it's more gives him a veneer of legitimacy he does not deserve.
posted by contraption at 4:44 PM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
They didn't, though. Trump got 62,979,636 votes (still a horrifyingly large number, I'll grant you) out of a pool of eligible voters numbering 231,556,622. That's not nearly half. That's barely a quarter, and pretending it's more gives him a veneer of legitimacy he does not deserve.
posted by contraption at 4:44 PM on January 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
If you didn't vote you tacitly supported the winner. Barring disenfranchisement or Republican suppression shenanigans. But most of those non-voters didn't vote simply because they couldn't be bothered.
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I dunno if there is an automated feature
Also of note: I am absolutely nobody. It's gotta be either the hashtags or the articles (written by noticeable people) that I'm tweeting.
posted by angrycat at 4:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also of note: I am absolutely nobody. It's gotta be either the hashtags or the articles (written by noticeable people) that I'm tweeting.
posted by angrycat at 4:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nearly half the eligible population doesn't vote. That's the problem, Trump is the symptom. If they were "tacitly voting for the winner" that sounds like good news to me, since every major news outlet had Clinton as a shoe-in and they tacitly "meant" to vote for her. I'm hopeful that Trump's election will shock some significant subset of the Apathy Bloc into action, and personally I feel like our only real hope is behaving as though that's the case and doing everything possible to get disaffected people to engage, at least as far as casting a vote.
posted by contraption at 4:55 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by contraption at 4:55 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
And my understanding is that, statistics-wise, our voters tend to sit elections out more than theirs do.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:58 PM on January 9, 2017
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:58 PM on January 9, 2017
Conway dismisses need for independent hack probe, says Trump may reconsider sanctions on Russia
posted by StrawberryPie at 5:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by StrawberryPie at 5:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been arguing with some of my apathetic/Both-Sides-ist friends until my voice cracks, and they're almost as hard to budge as the Republicans are. I'm not sure what led to things getting this bad or how to fix it, but it is an issue and a serious one.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you didn't vote you tacitly supported the winner. Barring disenfranchisement or Republican suppression shenanigans. But most of those non-voters didn't vote simply because they couldn't be bothered.
Fuck yes, I voted! I voted early! What's your point?
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fuck yes, I voted! I voted early! What's your point?
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's 27.19% of the eligible population voted for Trump.
And yeah, protest votes from the Apathy Bloc in the UK supposedly had a big effect on Brexit. Since people have been conditioned BY LIVED EXPERIENCE to learned helplessness, how were they to know that the government would take the outcome of the vote, WHICH WAS ONLY ADVISORY AND NOT LEGALLY BINDING, and go "oh well, we have to go through with it! democracy in action!"
I mean why suddenly make democracy so important at the exact moment when we least expected it?
Then of course, there was another petition to have another referendum, because of the numbers the government had to consider it, and they said "nope". Not that they should have agreed to it, you can't move goalposts like that, but the point is, they then went right back to responding to every single bit of activism the way they always do. Which is to say "nope, nanny knows best".
Investigatory Powers Bill, or whatever they're calling it now, that I've protested every time? They finally manage to sneak it through, and of course the answer from my MP is "don't be silly this is a totally reasonable and fair thing to do and not draconian surveillance at all". He didn't go "oh one of my constituents is concerned! democracy in action!"
Because no of course not, they only go DEMOCRACY IN ACTION when it's time to fuck things up from hell to breakfast.
The only consolation I have is that they want to go through with Brexit even less than the rest of us do. So I guess... the government learned their lesson? Democracy is bad news. Just say no.
::headdesk::
posted by tel3path at 5:10 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
And yeah, protest votes from the Apathy Bloc in the UK supposedly had a big effect on Brexit. Since people have been conditioned BY LIVED EXPERIENCE to learned helplessness, how were they to know that the government would take the outcome of the vote, WHICH WAS ONLY ADVISORY AND NOT LEGALLY BINDING, and go "oh well, we have to go through with it! democracy in action!"
I mean why suddenly make democracy so important at the exact moment when we least expected it?
Then of course, there was another petition to have another referendum, because of the numbers the government had to consider it, and they said "nope". Not that they should have agreed to it, you can't move goalposts like that, but the point is, they then went right back to responding to every single bit of activism the way they always do. Which is to say "nope, nanny knows best".
Investigatory Powers Bill, or whatever they're calling it now, that I've protested every time? They finally manage to sneak it through, and of course the answer from my MP is "don't be silly this is a totally reasonable and fair thing to do and not draconian surveillance at all". He didn't go "oh one of my constituents is concerned! democracy in action!"
Because no of course not, they only go DEMOCRACY IN ACTION when it's time to fuck things up from hell to breakfast.
The only consolation I have is that they want to go through with Brexit even less than the rest of us do. So I guess... the government learned their lesson? Democracy is bad news. Just say no.
::headdesk::
posted by tel3path at 5:10 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
thedarksideofprocyon: They probably aren't going to budge until the suffering starts. The real bad stuff. Then they might listen. That doesn't mean you should stop doing what you're doing now, though. You might still convince a few and even if you don't, you'll keep those muscles exercised and practiced for when they'll really be useful.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
If there's ever a nuclear strike on Britain, presumably it will be Trump's doing. In memory of me, I ask that you approach your friend and tell them you knew someone who died in the blast and she has this message: "You're a jerk, Dent. A complete asshole."
Or words to the effect that I personally and individually blame them for causing me to die a horrible death.
Also tell them that if I live, I'm going to spend the rest of my life determinedly shambling towards them, like It Follows. I will prolong my life as long as necessary in order to achieve this.
posted by tel3path at 5:16 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Or words to the effect that I personally and individually blame them for causing me to die a horrible death.
Also tell them that if I live, I'm going to spend the rest of my life determinedly shambling towards them, like It Follows. I will prolong my life as long as necessary in order to achieve this.
posted by tel3path at 5:16 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
but the fundamental logic of rural over-weighting is hard to argue with: it is a necessary compromise to persuade rural areas to join a federation. Urban and rural citizens' interests will often diverge, and rural votes will tend to be negated unless their interests are over-represented.
if you're talking about making sure their voices are heard on issues such as agricultural supports, water rights, things that rural people are naturally concerned with, you might have a point
but that's not what's going on here - instead they're trying to dictate to us on issues such as abortion, sex education, trans* rights, immigration, even the right of people to vote
these aren't RURAL issues - so why should rural people get a disproportionate voice in them? - expecially when you consider that the outlines of american states are a random combination of straight lines and river boundaries that were done with no consideration of demographics after the first 20 or so, simply because the demographics hadn't happened yet
people can go on about minority rights all they want to justify this system, but the simple truth is this system is disenfranchising the majority from having the government they want
that's not going to last - period - and rural areas are going to have to learn that
posted by pyramid termite at 5:19 PM on January 9, 2017 [60 favorites]
if you're talking about making sure their voices are heard on issues such as agricultural supports, water rights, things that rural people are naturally concerned with, you might have a point
but that's not what's going on here - instead they're trying to dictate to us on issues such as abortion, sex education, trans* rights, immigration, even the right of people to vote
these aren't RURAL issues - so why should rural people get a disproportionate voice in them? - expecially when you consider that the outlines of american states are a random combination of straight lines and river boundaries that were done with no consideration of demographics after the first 20 or so, simply because the demographics hadn't happened yet
people can go on about minority rights all they want to justify this system, but the simple truth is this system is disenfranchising the majority from having the government they want
that's not going to last - period - and rural areas are going to have to learn that
posted by pyramid termite at 5:19 PM on January 9, 2017 [60 favorites]
If You're in the Fight, Get Ready to Do the Work
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, there have been folks who have been fiercely organizing all along—join them.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, there have been folks who have been fiercely organizing all along—join them.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
You talk about the economic output of the cities, but that output relies on the resources (food, minerals, energy, clean air), geographic continuity, and defensibility of the contiguous United States.
ah yes, that agrarian democracy embodied by cargil, alcoa, and lockheed martin
posted by entropicamericana at 5:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
ah yes, that agrarian democracy embodied by cargil, alcoa, and lockheed martin
posted by entropicamericana at 5:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Another "Freedom is in Peril" graphic, this one based on a fire alarm. Public domain, available in svg, png, wmf (for MS/Libre Office) and pdf formats.
posted by valetta at 5:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valetta at 5:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Protests Erupt in Kentucky After GOP Supermajority Passes Extreme Anti-Choice, Anti-Union Bills
In Kentucky, hundreds of demonstrators packed into the Capitol building Saturday to protest the state Legislature’s passage of a slew of controversial bills, including an anti-union "right-to-work" law and extreme anti-choice legislation that bans abortions after 20 weeks and requires a woman to have an ultrasound before having an abortion. The surprise emergency legislative session Saturday came after Republicans seized a supermajority in the House of Representatives, giving the Republicans control of the House, the Senate and the governorship for the first time in Kentucky state history. On Saturday, the Legislature also repealed a law that had guaranteed higher wages for workers on publicly financed construction projects.
posted by futz at 6:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
In Kentucky, hundreds of demonstrators packed into the Capitol building Saturday to protest the state Legislature’s passage of a slew of controversial bills, including an anti-union "right-to-work" law and extreme anti-choice legislation that bans abortions after 20 weeks and requires a woman to have an ultrasound before having an abortion. The surprise emergency legislative session Saturday came after Republicans seized a supermajority in the House of Representatives, giving the Republicans control of the House, the Senate and the governorship for the first time in Kentucky state history. On Saturday, the Legislature also repealed a law that had guaranteed higher wages for workers on publicly financed construction projects.
posted by futz at 6:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
More from the article that I just posted.
AMY GOODMAN: Americans for Prosperity stayed in the room, Richard Becker, this weekend. Can you explain what happened?
RICHARD BECKER: So, actually, last Wednesday—so the day after new members were sworn in—the House Economic Development Committee held its meeting, at which they were to be discussing right-to-work and the repeal of prevailing wage. I was with several hundred union members in the halls of the Capitol Annex for the hours leading up to when the meeting was supposed to take place. And five minutes before the meeting was supposed to start, we were told that the room was full. None of us had been able to make it in. We later found out that that’s because Americans for Prosperity had reserved the committee room for a breakfast that morning, and come time for the committee to meet, they all just remained in their seats. So, when the committee meeting started, union members were shut out of the committee room, and the doors were shut, and state troopers stood in front of the doors to keep union members from attending the committee hearing.
Shit like THIS is why the Dems need to get dirty. Really dirty.
posted by futz at 6:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [55 favorites]
AMY GOODMAN: Americans for Prosperity stayed in the room, Richard Becker, this weekend. Can you explain what happened?
RICHARD BECKER: So, actually, last Wednesday—so the day after new members were sworn in—the House Economic Development Committee held its meeting, at which they were to be discussing right-to-work and the repeal of prevailing wage. I was with several hundred union members in the halls of the Capitol Annex for the hours leading up to when the meeting was supposed to take place. And five minutes before the meeting was supposed to start, we were told that the room was full. None of us had been able to make it in. We later found out that that’s because Americans for Prosperity had reserved the committee room for a breakfast that morning, and come time for the committee to meet, they all just remained in their seats. So, when the committee meeting started, union members were shut out of the committee room, and the doors were shut, and state troopers stood in front of the doors to keep union members from attending the committee hearing.
Shit like THIS is why the Dems need to get dirty. Really dirty.
posted by futz at 6:28 PM on January 9, 2017 [55 favorites]
As much as I prefer fair play, it's become clear that sometimes all taking the high ground does is give them the chance to slash your guts open.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:29 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:29 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm basically repeating myself from a lot of these threads, but yeah, seriously: fair play is over. There is nothing the GOP will not do to win. There is nothing you can prevent them from doing by graciously not taking advantage of a situation. They will whine and drag their feet and do everything they can to convince you that it's so unseemly and against tradition, right up until the moment it's convenient for them to do the very thing they're complaining about -- at which point they'll happily do it themselves.
Fuck tradition. Fuck sportsmanship. They're going to fight tooth and nail for every goddamn inch; if you want any chance of undoing the damage, you're going to have to too.
posted by tocts at 6:33 PM on January 9, 2017 [28 favorites]
Fuck tradition. Fuck sportsmanship. They're going to fight tooth and nail for every goddamn inch; if you want any chance of undoing the damage, you're going to have to too.
posted by tocts at 6:33 PM on January 9, 2017 [28 favorites]
I prefer fair play too but it is killing us at this point. It is political suicide.
posted by futz at 6:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by futz at 6:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
somebody has prioritized the making of a fucking stupid fucking twitter blacklist and taking the time to go block-block-block-block.
Isn't there automation for this?
i've been telling him to fuck himself for a month. maybe i'm using words that are too big?
Given the sophistication of their FB campaign, they probably have a model for you and your tweets which suggests that your tweets are helping him somehow.
posted by Coventry at 6:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Isn't there automation for this?
i've been telling him to fuck himself for a month. maybe i'm using words that are too big?
Given the sophistication of their FB campaign, they probably have a model for you and your tweets which suggests that your tweets are helping him somehow.
posted by Coventry at 6:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
How to mobilize a non-voting bloc;
Hey, the Rublicans want to jail you/kill you. The Democrats want to keep you alive; they just want you to have safer habits like methadone, or if you're really committed, safer drugs like pharmaceutically certified heroin. Anyway, if you want to work and work through a terrible addiction, the state should be there to help you if only for its own interest.
Of course, voting ID reform has to happen.
I can forsee the spittle flying from repubs, but this kind of harm reduction is cheaper to implement. It's just that crony "addiction counceling" and "private prisons" don't get as big of a cut of public moneys than they have been.
posted by porpoise at 7:01 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hey, the Rublicans want to jail you/kill you. The Democrats want to keep you alive; they just want you to have safer habits like methadone, or if you're really committed, safer drugs like pharmaceutically certified heroin. Anyway, if you want to work and work through a terrible addiction, the state should be there to help you if only for its own interest.
Of course, voting ID reform has to happen.
I can forsee the spittle flying from repubs, but this kind of harm reduction is cheaper to implement. It's just that crony "addiction counceling" and "private prisons" don't get as big of a cut of public moneys than they have been.
posted by porpoise at 7:01 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just want to say that the picture of angrycat with the Vagina Dentata sign, in a Hamilton shirt, with a cat and books in the background, is the Most Metafilter Thing That Has Ever Happened.
Who knew it was still possible for me to get a scrap of joy from an "election" thread.
posted by gerstle at 7:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
Who knew it was still possible for me to get a scrap of joy from an "election" thread.
posted by gerstle at 7:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
Booker to testify against fellow senator Sessions in unprecedented move
Democratic Sen. Cory Booker is set to testify against Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions Wednesday in an unprecedented move during his attorney general confirmation.posted by chris24 at 7:23 PM on January 9, 2017 [83 favorites]
This would be the first time in Senate history that a sitting senator will testify against another sitting senator for a Cabinet post during a confirmation.
"I do not take lightly the decision to testify against a Senate colleague," Booker said. "But the immense powers of the attorney general combined with the deeply troubling views of this nominee is a call to conscience."
The problem is that a huge percentage of the American electorate has been conditioned to not care based upon the stupidity of our electoral system.
A primary system which disproportionately favors white agrarian states. A presidential election system where the number of actually competitive states is about a half dozen. A Senate system which favors white agrarian states. A system of electing representatives that is not truly proportional and so heavily gerrymandered as to make the majority of districts non competitive. Elections where the scheduling is clearly meant to disadvantage urban working class voters. Elections where an increasing percentage of voters are being unfairly disenfranchised.
The success of Trump was due to a variety of factors but most noticeably it reflects a shift in how largely white voters in communities centered around light industry and resource exploitation in the midwest have apparently decided that the race to the bottom strategies of Republicans is somehow or another going to make America great again.
In truth it's reflective of the increasing racial resentment held by rural and small town whites about the supposed government largesse directed towards undeserving urban minority communities. White voters will apparently support deprivation and regressive policies as long as those policies disproportionately target racial and ethnic minorities.
Of course the end result will be further hollowing out of small town America as economic development is increasingly a function of the various urban metropolis and the dismantling of the social safety net will make living in Red State America more and more untenable for many Americans. Migration to the urbanized megacities will no doubt speed up which will leave large swathes of middle america greying out and with dire economic futures.
posted by vuron at 7:26 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
A primary system which disproportionately favors white agrarian states. A presidential election system where the number of actually competitive states is about a half dozen. A Senate system which favors white agrarian states. A system of electing representatives that is not truly proportional and so heavily gerrymandered as to make the majority of districts non competitive. Elections where the scheduling is clearly meant to disadvantage urban working class voters. Elections where an increasing percentage of voters are being unfairly disenfranchised.
The success of Trump was due to a variety of factors but most noticeably it reflects a shift in how largely white voters in communities centered around light industry and resource exploitation in the midwest have apparently decided that the race to the bottom strategies of Republicans is somehow or another going to make America great again.
In truth it's reflective of the increasing racial resentment held by rural and small town whites about the supposed government largesse directed towards undeserving urban minority communities. White voters will apparently support deprivation and regressive policies as long as those policies disproportionately target racial and ethnic minorities.
Of course the end result will be further hollowing out of small town America as economic development is increasingly a function of the various urban metropolis and the dismantling of the social safety net will make living in Red State America more and more untenable for many Americans. Migration to the urbanized megacities will no doubt speed up which will leave large swathes of middle america greying out and with dire economic futures.
posted by vuron at 7:26 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
A Troll Outside Trump Tower Is Helping To Pick Your Next Government
An internet troll, who was once called “the most hated man on the internet” and is banned from Twitter, is recommending candidates to serve in the Trump administration.
Charles “Chuck” Johnson, a controversial blogger and conservative online personality, has been pushing for various political appointees to serve under Donald Trump, according to multiple sources close to the President-elect’s transition team. While Johnson does not have a formal position, FORBES has learned that he is working behind the scenes with members of the transition team’s executive committee, including billionaire Trump donor Peter Thiel, to recommend, vet and give something of a seal of approval to potential nominees from the so-called "alt-right."
The proximity to power is something new for Johnson, a self-described “journalist, author and debunker of frauds,” who has made a name for himself by peddling false information and right-wing conspiracy theories online. In the months leading up to the election, Johnson, 28, used social media and his website GotNews.com to stump for the President-elect while also publishing misinformation on Trump’s detractors. Now, Johnson is helping to pick some of the leaders who may run the country for the next four years.
FORBES verified Johnson’s involvement with multiple people close to the transition team who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly...
This is insane if true.
I thought that this had already been posted here but I ctrl f'd the hell out of it and didn't see it.
posted by futz at 7:27 PM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
An internet troll, who was once called “the most hated man on the internet” and is banned from Twitter, is recommending candidates to serve in the Trump administration.
Charles “Chuck” Johnson, a controversial blogger and conservative online personality, has been pushing for various political appointees to serve under Donald Trump, according to multiple sources close to the President-elect’s transition team. While Johnson does not have a formal position, FORBES has learned that he is working behind the scenes with members of the transition team’s executive committee, including billionaire Trump donor Peter Thiel, to recommend, vet and give something of a seal of approval to potential nominees from the so-called "alt-right."
The proximity to power is something new for Johnson, a self-described “journalist, author and debunker of frauds,” who has made a name for himself by peddling false information and right-wing conspiracy theories online. In the months leading up to the election, Johnson, 28, used social media and his website GotNews.com to stump for the President-elect while also publishing misinformation on Trump’s detractors. Now, Johnson is helping to pick some of the leaders who may run the country for the next four years.
FORBES verified Johnson’s involvement with multiple people close to the transition team who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly...
This is insane if true.
I thought that this had already been posted here but I ctrl f'd the hell out of it and didn't see it.
posted by futz at 7:27 PM on January 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
The protest will have more and bigger stars than the inauguration.
@kylegriffin1
Women's March on Washington announces celeb line-up, includes America Ferrera, Cher, Julianne Moore, Uzo Aduba, Scarlett Johansson and more: [announcement]
posted by chris24 at 7:33 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
@kylegriffin1
Women's March on Washington announces celeb line-up, includes America Ferrera, Cher, Julianne Moore, Uzo Aduba, Scarlett Johansson and more: [announcement]
posted by chris24 at 7:33 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Charles “Chuck” Johnson, a controversial blogger and conservative online personality [...]
Just a reminder that
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:41 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just a reminder that
Charlesis not the same person as Charles Johnson, blogger who owns Little Green Footballs. I always get confused, myself.ChuckJohnson
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:41 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm amazed that nearly half USAns voted for the yammering yam, but there it is. That's the real problem, not the relatively-small boost given by rural over-weighting.
Relatively-small boost? Relative to what? 3 million votes doesn't seem a "small boost" to me, especially considering the actual outcome depended on less than 100,000 votes. That's more than 2% of the votes, more than the margin in 11 presidential elections.
And 6 million votes, a 4% boost, in the Senate certainly doesn't look small. The Republicans got 4% fewer votes and 8% more Senators. Is that relatively small?
posted by JackFlash at 7:41 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Relatively-small boost? Relative to what? 3 million votes doesn't seem a "small boost" to me, especially considering the actual outcome depended on less than 100,000 votes. That's more than 2% of the votes, more than the margin in 11 presidential elections.
And 6 million votes, a 4% boost, in the Senate certainly doesn't look small. The Republicans got 4% fewer votes and 8% more Senators. Is that relatively small?
posted by JackFlash at 7:41 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's looking like the DeVos confirmation hearings have been delayed until the 17th. Unclear whether this has anything to do with her completely non-responsive answers on conflicts of interest or what's up.
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
You want the moral high ground? Then take the high road. The lesson of 2016 should not be "fuck it, let's just be like the bad guys."
Our moral high ground isn't because we don't use every parliamentary and legal maneuver available, it because we have moral beliefs and policies and appeal to what's right, rather than bigotry and hate. If keeping that morality alive in our society means resisting by pushing every legal avenue, I'm fine with it.
posted by chris24 at 7:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
Our moral high ground isn't because we don't use every parliamentary and legal maneuver available, it because we have moral beliefs and policies and appeal to what's right, rather than bigotry and hate. If keeping that morality alive in our society means resisting by pushing every legal avenue, I'm fine with it.
posted by chris24 at 7:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
Scary thought of the night:
Chris Dashiell @cdashiell
These people are acting like there will never be another election.
posted by bluecore at 7:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
Chris Dashiell @cdashiell
These people are acting like there will never be another election.
posted by bluecore at 7:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
Well, no shit.
I've given up on trying to convince people of that, though.
posted by perspicio at 7:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've given up on trying to convince people of that, though.
posted by perspicio at 7:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it's unlikely but not actually impossible that there will never be another election. Trump is very, very unpopular; his people are very, very unpopular. This means that they have to govern with extreme brutality because they can't rely on a wave of popular support to get their policies in places. They're going to do things that are going to make many Americans materially worse off very fast if they succeed in gutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. There is obviously going to be some kind of enormous food safety, infrastructure or environmental disaster on their watch because they're damn fools - god help us if there's a pandemic.
Even the Republicans understand that they are about to do things which will make them very unpopular; they've decided that personal enrichment is more important than pleasing the base. My feeling is that they are either going to get to the point where they can't hold an election because they will lose or else that they are governing on the assumption that they will never have to face elections again.
It's difficult for me to see how Republications expect to enact their agenda without basically rendering the country ungovernable on normal terms - people are going to be poorer, sicker, less housed, less able to access clean water, etc, all across the country, where once they expected to be able to have stable housing, clean drinking water and so on. It's going to happen on a scale which will make 2008 look minor, because all the fall-backs that kept people sort of housed and fed in the past are being taken away. I don't see how you plan to govern this way unless you plan to keep yourself in power by force of arms.
posted by Frowner at 7:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Even the Republicans understand that they are about to do things which will make them very unpopular; they've decided that personal enrichment is more important than pleasing the base. My feeling is that they are either going to get to the point where they can't hold an election because they will lose or else that they are governing on the assumption that they will never have to face elections again.
It's difficult for me to see how Republications expect to enact their agenda without basically rendering the country ungovernable on normal terms - people are going to be poorer, sicker, less housed, less able to access clean water, etc, all across the country, where once they expected to be able to have stable housing, clean drinking water and so on. It's going to happen on a scale which will make 2008 look minor, because all the fall-backs that kept people sort of housed and fed in the past are being taken away. I don't see how you plan to govern this way unless you plan to keep yourself in power by force of arms.
posted by Frowner at 7:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
I also expect the irony that Trump and his lackeys are acting in exactly the autocratic way they accused Obama of to be utterly lost on a lot of the base.
Or, more likely, autocrats are suddenly okay when they're Republican autocrats. Duh.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or, more likely, autocrats are suddenly okay when they're Republican autocrats. Duh.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Obamacare Repeal Might Have Just Died Tonight
Huh, healthcare policy is hard. Especially when your own rube goldberg solution to avoid the easiest and obvious answer, single payer healthcare, is already the law. Who knew?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Huh, healthcare policy is hard. Especially when your own rube goldberg solution to avoid the easiest and obvious answer, single payer healthcare, is already the law. Who knew?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on January 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Obamacare Repeal Might Have Just Died Tonight
please please please
posted by lalochezia at 8:08 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think the headline is overly optimistic, but it's a good sign that 4-5 GOP Senators are not willing to go along with "repeal and delay". There's not actually a viable "replacement" plan that can achieve the same coverage in either scope or quality...because Obamacare IS ALREADY the Republican solution to the pre-2008 healthcare wasteland. If they could replace it, they would've come up with another plan in the last 7 years. They can't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:11 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's difficult for me to see how Republications expect to enact their agenda without basically rendering the country ungovernable on normal terms - people are going to be poorer, sicker, less housed, less able to access clean water, etc, all across the country, where once they expected to be able to have stable housing, clean drinking water and so on. It's going to happen on a scale which will make 2008 look minor, because all the fall-backs that kept people sort of housed and fed in the past are being taken away. I don't see how you plan to govern this way unless you plan to keep yourself in power by force of arms.I've written a bit in some of the previous threads about having had a bit of experience with a malignant narcissist in the workplace. I remain terrified by many of the behaviors I see in Trump, which mirror the highly successful but completely self-centered and destructive manipulation I saw in my workplace during that time.
And the thing which frightens me most? It's that the one skill that the narcissist I had to deal with had in spades was blame-shifting. Every promise he made went unfulfilled but there was always, always, always somebody else to blame, and the only way to guarantee success the next time was to give him more authority. Those of us who saw through this individual were utterly unprepared to deal with this -- we believed in a system based on merit and having consequences for success and failure, a belief that was turned completely upside-down time and time again by this person's skillful manipulations. Every broken promise, every failed project that we expected would be the end of his credibility and his support from leadership instead became a reason it was vital to concentrate even more power in his hands.
Do NOT count on failure to deliver on his promises to automatically discredit Trump in the eyes of those who voted for him, especially if they are getting at least something that they want out of the deal. It is entirely, terrifyingly possible that failure will only strengthen him, as crazy as that sounds.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:17 PM on January 9, 2017 [56 favorites]
Our moral high ground isn't because we don't use every parliamentary and legal maneuver available, it because we have moral beliefs and policies and appeal to what's right, rather than bigotry and hate. If keeping that morality alive in our society means resisting by pushing every legal avenue, I'm fine with it.
This. I'm sick of people handcuffing themselves because they care about tactics rather than about results. We went high when they went low. We lost. Next time, when they go low, we go lower.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
This. I'm sick of people handcuffing themselves because they care about tactics rather than about results. We went high when they went low. We lost. Next time, when they go low, we go lower.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Repeal and delay is even worse than immediate repeal because it basically destroys the individual coverage market in it's entirety. Basically unless you have employer provided insurance you would be up a creek.
This would be unbelievably unpopular among constituents across the US. It's also really unpopular among a lot of important lobbying groups like doctors, insurers, hospitals, etc.
The reality is the Republican chance to strangle ACA in the crib has already long passed. Any Republican attempt at sneaking in a repeal now is catastrophic for the reelection of numerous Republicans. If McConnell had 56 Senators he might tough it out but replace and repeal would basically be burning through any political capital he has.
The Republicans might still try to push something through reconciliation but it would be a phyrric victory at best.
posted by vuron at 8:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
This would be unbelievably unpopular among constituents across the US. It's also really unpopular among a lot of important lobbying groups like doctors, insurers, hospitals, etc.
The reality is the Republican chance to strangle ACA in the crib has already long passed. Any Republican attempt at sneaking in a repeal now is catastrophic for the reelection of numerous Republicans. If McConnell had 56 Senators he might tough it out but replace and repeal would basically be burning through any political capital he has.
The Republicans might still try to push something through reconciliation but it would be a phyrric victory at best.
posted by vuron at 8:20 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Defense Secretary nominee General "Mad Dog" Mattis has received over $1 million in compensation currently serving on the board of defense contractor General Dynamics. He was also on the board of startup Theranos and pushed the military to adopt their discredited blood testing technology. Hey, new rules, no conflicts of interest there. And the troops lurv him.
posted by JackFlash at 8:23 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 8:23 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
If You're in the Fight, Get Ready to Do the Work
Hell yes. Get in or get out.
Do NOT count on failure to deliver on his promises to automatically discredit Trump in the eyes of those who voted for him, especially if they are getting at least something that they want out of the deal. It is entirely, terrifyingly possible that failure will only strengthen him, as crazy as that sounds.
Goddamn right. Enemies, opponents, and obstacles abound. But if you think the thing to do is wait for this to play itself out, then your inertia, and the words you mumble from within it, is your very own demon to overcome.
posted by perspicio at 8:27 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hell yes. Get in or get out.
Do NOT count on failure to deliver on his promises to automatically discredit Trump in the eyes of those who voted for him, especially if they are getting at least something that they want out of the deal. It is entirely, terrifyingly possible that failure will only strengthen him, as crazy as that sounds.
Goddamn right. Enemies, opponents, and obstacles abound. But if you think the thing to do is wait for this to play itself out, then your inertia, and the words you mumble from within it, is your very own demon to overcome.
posted by perspicio at 8:27 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
"You're gonna need Congressional approval and you don't have the votes."
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
It was bullshit coming from them then and it's bullshit coming from Democrats now.
No, it wasn't. In point of fact, they currently have control of two branches of government, and soon they're gonna make three via these same tactics. It wasn't bullshit: it was the strategy that succeeded.
The lesson of 2016 should not be "fuck it, let's just be like the bad guys."
The difference is, and will always remain, that we are not trying to imprison, disenfranchise or just outright murder their voting base or leadership*.
We're not going to do those things. Those aren't our endgame. Those options are not being discussed.
Moreover, letting them get away with all that in the name of fair play isn't the moral high ground: that's letting many vulnerable people die so that privileged people can sleep at night, and I'm pretty sure that has another name.
(* Except actual criminals.)
posted by mordax at 8:32 PM on January 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
No, it wasn't. In point of fact, they currently have control of two branches of government, and soon they're gonna make three via these same tactics. It wasn't bullshit: it was the strategy that succeeded.
The lesson of 2016 should not be "fuck it, let's just be like the bad guys."
The difference is, and will always remain, that we are not trying to imprison, disenfranchise or just outright murder their voting base or leadership*.
We're not going to do those things. Those aren't our endgame. Those options are not being discussed.
Moreover, letting them get away with all that in the name of fair play isn't the moral high ground: that's letting many vulnerable people die so that privileged people can sleep at night, and I'm pretty sure that has another name.
(* Except actual criminals.)
posted by mordax at 8:32 PM on January 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
Interesting detail in the "Repeal Might Have Died" story: Bob Corker explicitly asking for Trump to "very clearly tweet" guidance on healthcare policy.
This might point to another way to turn the tweeting habit into a double-edged sword, to make a big deal about the absence of an unambiguous tweet on a particular subject. He's already set the high bar of being willing to start a global arms race with a tweet. So, it should be prominently pointed out that refraining from tweeting clearly on a subject signifies cowardice and weakness.
posted by XMLicious at 8:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
This might point to another way to turn the tweeting habit into a double-edged sword, to make a big deal about the absence of an unambiguous tweet on a particular subject. He's already set the high bar of being willing to start a global arms race with a tweet. So, it should be prominently pointed out that refraining from tweeting clearly on a subject signifies cowardice and weakness.
posted by XMLicious at 8:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Montana Nazi Resistance Update: here's a beautiful fire-spitting piece from one of my comrades about Montana, Spencer, Anglin, the Missoulian's gobsmackingly-irresponsible article and their half-assed editorial response. God damn am I glad to have strong and brave neighbors to fight this shit with.
"So hey Missoulian, maybe come listen to the Jewish and Native American combat veterans who are beyond upset Spencer and his Neo Nazi allies are allowed to get away with this. Because we are coming to Whitefish just like we went to Standing Rock, unarmed and ready to face off against injustice. We are going there to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. Montana is the last best place because it is our last best place. We will stand up to keep it that way and we will stand up for anyone else who joins us."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
"So hey Missoulian, maybe come listen to the Jewish and Native American combat veterans who are beyond upset Spencer and his Neo Nazi allies are allowed to get away with this. Because we are coming to Whitefish just like we went to Standing Rock, unarmed and ready to face off against injustice. We are going there to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. Montana is the last best place because it is our last best place. We will stand up to keep it that way and we will stand up for anyone else who joins us."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
Someone doesn't realize Obamacare and ACA are the same thing.
posted by RobotHero at 8:35 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 8:35 PM on January 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
XMLicious: Interesting detail in the "Repeal Might Have Died" story: Bob Corker explicitly asking for Trump to "very clearly tweet" guidance on healthcare policy.
That part struck me as well. I suspect Twitter is going to play a larger than expected role in policy and legislation, and we are going to have to learn to weaponize it effectively to our advantage.
posted by Superplin at 8:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
That part struck me as well. I suspect Twitter is going to play a larger than expected role in policy and legislation, and we are going to have to learn to weaponize it effectively to our advantage.
posted by Superplin at 8:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Rand Paul, of all people, has demanded that Congress repeal Obamacare at the same time it passes a plan to replace it.
Yea...but he introduced a "replacement" plan that basically just allows everyone to buy a useless catastrophic policy that covers nothing instead. They're going to try all kinds of slight of hand and bullshit chinancery to insist they have a "replacement". Like selling across state lines, "tort reform" and all manner of "insurance" that's not. Fact is, there's no replacement that achieves the same goals. Obamacare was structured the way it was because that's literally the only way to make the whole thing work at all. It could be made better sure, but only by spending more money in the form of greater subsidies, or broader medicaid enrollment, or reviving the public option, or medicare buy in, or full blown single payer. It can't really be changed otherwise without breaking it entirely, or at a minimum taking away coverage from a shit ton of people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yea...but he introduced a "replacement" plan that basically just allows everyone to buy a useless catastrophic policy that covers nothing instead. They're going to try all kinds of slight of hand and bullshit chinancery to insist they have a "replacement". Like selling across state lines, "tort reform" and all manner of "insurance" that's not. Fact is, there's no replacement that achieves the same goals. Obamacare was structured the way it was because that's literally the only way to make the whole thing work at all. It could be made better sure, but only by spending more money in the form of greater subsidies, or broader medicaid enrollment, or reviving the public option, or medicare buy in, or full blown single payer. It can't really be changed otherwise without breaking it entirely, or at a minimum taking away coverage from a shit ton of people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
You don't need to go low. There is lots of room in between high and low. Somewhere around medium will do.
posted by Jalliah at 8:42 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Playing by the rules is not about morality. It's about ethics. And while it is ethical to do so when all players have respect for the rules, it is simply foolhardy when they do not.
posted by perspicio at 8:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by perspicio at 8:45 PM on January 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
The ends don't justify the means.
Even if we feel like granting that - and that's a complicated discussion - who decides what means are okay? On what basis?
From where I'm sitting, you are rudely demanding that people roll over and die for your sense of decorum because you insist shit will all work out in the end anyway, and that our sins are worse than our deaths.
Given that? I don't think the person deciding what tactics are or are not acceptable should be *you*.
posted by mordax at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Even if we feel like granting that - and that's a complicated discussion - who decides what means are okay? On what basis?
From where I'm sitting, you are rudely demanding that people roll over and die for your sense of decorum because you insist shit will all work out in the end anyway, and that our sins are worse than our deaths.
Given that? I don't think the person deciding what tactics are or are not acceptable should be *you*.
posted by mordax at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also the only way that staying high and working the high ground is if the other group you're fighting has a limit to what they will morally allow in their actions. Keeping the high ground morally does not work when they other guy and the other guys power base is okay with bashing your head in(physically or metaphorically). If this is the case you die. It's that basic.
posted by Jalliah at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Because playing by the rules and diplomacy have worked so well in stopping fascism before.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:48 PM on January 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:48 PM on January 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
Ooh it could be bad for them come election time if they have to put up a replacement sooner rather than later. "Repeal and Delay" is very obviously a plan to coast through 2018 on the repeal alone while people are still safely on the ACA during the delay, and implement some shitty policy as close as possible to the 2020 elections to run on the hype of it, before its effects can be felt. Likely they'd have it kick in in time for open enrollment in November 2020 which would put the first major voter disillusionment and insurance industry death spiral safely after the votes are counted.
If they have to put up a plan soon, there's a lot of time for people to experience the kind of plan their best and brightest have in mind. They don't actually want this. I don't want it either, real pain is coming to my life and the lives of those around me under their plan, but they cannot hide from the reaction anywhere near as easily if they can't delay.
"I’ll give him this: hisfinancial healthcare system is a work of genius. I couldn’t undo it if I tried... and I tried."
posted by jason_steakums at 8:48 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
If they have to put up a plan soon, there's a lot of time for people to experience the kind of plan their best and brightest have in mind. They don't actually want this. I don't want it either, real pain is coming to my life and the lives of those around me under their plan, but they cannot hide from the reaction anywhere near as easily if they can't delay.
"I’ll give him this: his
posted by jason_steakums at 8:48 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
RobotHero: "Someone doesn't realize Obamacare and ACA are the same thing."
Which, I'm Canadian, but this shouldn't be just an opportunity to point and laugh at the dumb person, but a reminder to double-check with anyone you know who would be inclined to oppose the Obamacare, whether they really understand what it would mean to repeal the Obamacare/ACA.
posted by RobotHero at 8:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Which, I'm Canadian, but this shouldn't be just an opportunity to point and laugh at the dumb person, but a reminder to double-check with anyone you know who would be inclined to oppose the Obamacare, whether they really understand what it would mean to repeal the Obamacare/ACA.
posted by RobotHero at 8:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
You don't get moral get out of jail free cards because your cause is just.
Parliamentary and legal maneuvering isn't immoral. Protesting isn't immoral. Erecting every roadblock and hurdle you can isn't immoral. Being difficult isn't immoral. We're not working to disenfranchise people to win elections. We're not appealing to racism to enact our agenda. We're not implementing fascism to control the country. We're using the tools built into the system.
posted by chris24 at 8:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [43 favorites]
Parliamentary and legal maneuvering isn't immoral. Protesting isn't immoral. Erecting every roadblock and hurdle you can isn't immoral. Being difficult isn't immoral. We're not working to disenfranchise people to win elections. We're not appealing to racism to enact our agenda. We're not implementing fascism to control the country. We're using the tools built into the system.
posted by chris24 at 8:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [43 favorites]
Say what you will about the Cleveland Browns, those guys take the high road
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The reality is the Republican chance to strangle ACA in the crib has already long passed. Any Republican attempt at sneaking in a repeal now is catastrophic for the reelection of numerous Republicans. If McConnell had 56 Senators he might tough it out but replace and repeal would basically be burning through any political capital he has.
That would be more believable if the R constituency thought they were repealing the ACA instead of Obamacare.
posted by Talez at 8:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
That would be more believable if the R constituency thought they were repealing the ACA instead of Obamacare.
posted by Talez at 8:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
They were actually talking about the "delay" part running all the way through 2020. I'm not kidding. But the individual marketplaces are already shaky and spiraling due to Republican inflicted damage, failing to expand Medicaid hurt the projected enrollment badly, and any repeal and delay plan could easily push insurers to abandon the exchanges entirely or sky rocket premiums.
It's nakedly partisan and has nothing, less than zero to do with healthcare policy. Obamacare would've worked if Republicans hadn't broken it, or been willing to touch up and expand it. And healthcare is largely a solved problem in nearly every other developed nation.
But the solution involves the government spending money. And Republicans cannot abide the thought that government can ever solve any problem faced by its citizens, especially if the solution involves spending even a single dime so someone doesn't bleed out on the street.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's nakedly partisan and has nothing, less than zero to do with healthcare policy. Obamacare would've worked if Republicans hadn't broken it, or been willing to touch up and expand it. And healthcare is largely a solved problem in nearly every other developed nation.
But the solution involves the government spending money. And Republicans cannot abide the thought that government can ever solve any problem faced by its citizens, especially if the solution involves spending even a single dime so someone doesn't bleed out on the street.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Look -- I agree that the Democrats have to stop being pushovers for Republican dirty tricks, but there are lines which you really don't want to cross.
What the Republicans are doing currently is tremendously destructive to the institutions of democracy, so much so that there are people openly wondering whether their end game is to prevent further free and fair elections from ever taking place. I don't believe (or maybe I don't want to believe) that we're at that point yet, but it's certainly a lot closer than I ever remember it being in my lifetime.
Before you commit to a policy of playing just as dirty, think about the implications of what that would mean -- not solely in terms of immediate policy goals but in what you would have to do in order to sustain it. Our current system of government is dependent on the consent of the governed for its legitimacy. If you are truly willing to imperil that in the service of short-term goals, the only alternative I can see is a replacement of consent of the governed with the threat of deadly force on a mass scale.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
What the Republicans are doing currently is tremendously destructive to the institutions of democracy, so much so that there are people openly wondering whether their end game is to prevent further free and fair elections from ever taking place. I don't believe (or maybe I don't want to believe) that we're at that point yet, but it's certainly a lot closer than I ever remember it being in my lifetime.
Before you commit to a policy of playing just as dirty, think about the implications of what that would mean -- not solely in terms of immediate policy goals but in what you would have to do in order to sustain it. Our current system of government is dependent on the consent of the governed for its legitimacy. If you are truly willing to imperil that in the service of short-term goals, the only alternative I can see is a replacement of consent of the governed with the threat of deadly force on a mass scale.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
hey Missoulian, maybe come listen to the Jewish and Native American combat veterans who are beyond upset Spencer and his Neo Nazi allies are allowed to get away with this.
Whitefish's rabbi requests, with advice of the ADL and SPLC, that a counterprotest not be held. Recommendations on alternative action here
posted by Theiform at 9:04 PM on January 9, 2017
Whitefish's rabbi requests, with advice of the ADL and SPLC, that a counterprotest not be held. Recommendations on alternative action here
posted by Theiform at 9:04 PM on January 9, 2017
Our current system of government is dependent on the consent of the governed for its legitimacy.
Twice in 16 years they've governed as a punitive occupying force without obtaining consent, much less engaging in good faith deliberation or governing for the good of the country. Our system is based on a historical farce of legitimacy that's stretched to its breaking point.
Something will change.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
Twice in 16 years they've governed as a punitive occupying force without obtaining consent, much less engaging in good faith deliberation or governing for the good of the country. Our system is based on a historical farce of legitimacy that's stretched to its breaking point.
Something will change.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:05 PM on January 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
Nerd of the North: As I see it, withdrawing consent sends a very clear message, brings us all onto the same, level playing field, and it is all that's being discussed.
Call it constructive disruption.
posted by perspicio at 9:06 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Call it constructive disruption.
posted by perspicio at 9:06 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Then take the high road.
Mr. Obama tried this strategy for the last 8 years. Where did that get us?
posted by futz at 9:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mr. Obama tried this strategy for the last 8 years. Where did that get us?
posted by futz at 9:09 PM on January 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mr. Obama tried this strategy for the last 8 years. Where did that get us?
They can play dirty tricks better than us. The second a Democrat gives an inkling that they could even remotely want the country to burn it'll be all we hear about. This is the thing. The R base sees shutting down the government as a feature, not a bug. They think it means the government can't give billions to black people. The electorate won't punish them. I mean why on earth would they vote for Republican Lite when they can have real Republican with all the cryptoracist flavor?
This is why they can get away with "dirty tricks". A Democrat says they won't pass reconcilliation over PP defunding and is willing to see the government shut down over it and the shit will hit the fan because the D base knows this will fuck them and they will punish the Ds for it.
posted by Talez at 9:14 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
They can play dirty tricks better than us. The second a Democrat gives an inkling that they could even remotely want the country to burn it'll be all we hear about. This is the thing. The R base sees shutting down the government as a feature, not a bug. They think it means the government can't give billions to black people. The electorate won't punish them. I mean why on earth would they vote for Republican Lite when they can have real Republican with all the cryptoracist flavor?
This is why they can get away with "dirty tricks". A Democrat says they won't pass reconcilliation over PP defunding and is willing to see the government shut down over it and the shit will hit the fan because the D base knows this will fuck them and they will punish the Ds for it.
posted by Talez at 9:14 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Talez: Yes, but they're outnumbered. And when we're energized, they're drastically outnumbered.
We don't throw the monkey wrench in the gears until there is no alternative but an existential threat. At that point, subversion becomes virtue.
The problem is, it takes a goddamned awful lot for people who believe in civilization to correct their belief by realizing that it's aspirational, not just the way things are...and to truly recognize that it's under direct threat right fucking now. And only then can the passion to take these risks ignite.
Whereas the passion of tribalist hordes is always alight.
Now is not a good time for confusion. Now is a good time for discernment, decision, and determination.
posted by perspicio at 9:25 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
We don't throw the monkey wrench in the gears until there is no alternative but an existential threat. At that point, subversion becomes virtue.
The problem is, it takes a goddamned awful lot for people who believe in civilization to correct their belief by realizing that it's aspirational, not just the way things are...and to truly recognize that it's under direct threat right fucking now. And only then can the passion to take these risks ignite.
Whereas the passion of tribalist hordes is always alight.
Now is not a good time for confusion. Now is a good time for discernment, decision, and determination.
posted by perspicio at 9:25 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you are truly willing to imperil that in the service of short-term goals,
Here's my "short term" (we need 35 state legislatures) goal: a Constitutional amendment giving a positive right to vote for all of-age citizens. Here's another: elimination of the Electoral College. And another: an end to gerrymandering, and maybe implementing instant runoff voting.
I would be willing to pull pretty much any technically legal move to get those things, because, without those things, our democracy is increasingly broken.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Here's my "short term" (we need 35 state legislatures) goal: a Constitutional amendment giving a positive right to vote for all of-age citizens. Here's another: elimination of the Electoral College. And another: an end to gerrymandering, and maybe implementing instant runoff voting.
I would be willing to pull pretty much any technically legal move to get those things, because, without those things, our democracy is increasingly broken.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:31 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
... what evidence suggests to you that people are kidding about this? Obama's big -deal- for much of his time in office was an attempt to work across the aisle, and that did not exactly go swimmingly.
History suggests they're no more likely to be amenable now that they're a majority in both houses, with a Republican president.
That you continue to advocate people remain wedded to an approach that -has not worked- in recent history, out of high minded principle is nice in theory, but those of us whose lives, livings, and so on are in -actual jeopardy- due to the policies of these incoming yahoos are not feeling real charitable to principle over results.
Not sure how to state that clearer. Certainly not kidding.
posted by Archelaus at 9:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
History suggests they're no more likely to be amenable now that they're a majority in both houses, with a Republican president.
That you continue to advocate people remain wedded to an approach that -has not worked- in recent history, out of high minded principle is nice in theory, but those of us whose lives, livings, and so on are in -actual jeopardy- due to the policies of these incoming yahoos are not feeling real charitable to principle over results.
Not sure how to state that clearer. Certainly not kidding.
posted by Archelaus at 9:34 PM on January 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
You have got to be kidding me.
I wasn't kidding. Would you are to expand?
posted by futz at 9:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wasn't kidding. Would you are to expand?
posted by futz at 9:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I actually agree with how Obama conducted himself. He extended every olive branch, removed every reasonable cause for obstructionism, and thereby revealed the obstructionists as completely unhinged.
But now that chapter is ended, and a new one is beginning.
posted by perspicio at 9:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
But now that chapter is ended, and a new one is beginning.
posted by perspicio at 9:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
hey guys remember when we were all morally outraged and horrified that Dick Cheney accidentally show someone on a hunting trip?
sometimes these threads make me worry for people with suicidal ideation tendencies
I'm trying to remain calm but it's getting harder knowing 2 weeks from now the thing that gave me nonstop panic attacks and no sleep for 3 days straight is really, really fucking real y'all
fuck
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
sometimes these threads make me worry for people with suicidal ideation tendencies
I'm trying to remain calm but it's getting harder knowing 2 weeks from now the thing that gave me nonstop panic attacks and no sleep for 3 days straight is really, really fucking real y'all
fuck
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:37 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
And the problem I have with the "the base will punish them for it" is that the base punishing them for their misdeeds (assuming it ever happens) happens -later-.
You know, after the consequences of their actions start affecting those of us on the bottom of the ol' social strata.
It doesn't skip folks just because we didn't vote for this nonsense, so any tactic that requires us to suffer because folks would rather take the high road leaves me -cold-.
posted by Archelaus at 9:38 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
You know, after the consequences of their actions start affecting those of us on the bottom of the ol' social strata.
It doesn't skip folks just because we didn't vote for this nonsense, so any tactic that requires us to suffer because folks would rather take the high road leaves me -cold-.
posted by Archelaus at 9:38 PM on January 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
I agree with that comment 100%, The World Famous.
And as I look at the new phase I say, politics is not politesse. Dissent is a party-crasher. Protest does not defer to authority. You can be decent and still be tough as nails. You can fight with everything you've got for what's right. That's enough high road for me.
posted by perspicio at 9:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
And as I look at the new phase I say, politics is not politesse. Dissent is a party-crasher. Protest does not defer to authority. You can be decent and still be tough as nails. You can fight with everything you've got for what's right. That's enough high road for me.
posted by perspicio at 9:50 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't think the suggestion was that his presidency accomplished nothing, but rather that despite his efforts, partisanship has become even more entrenched and Republicans even more radicalized.
posted by Superplin at 9:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 9:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
And everything he achieved is about to be rolled back or worse. There's a very good chance that by 2020 there will be nothing left at all of Obamas entire presidency.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
It seemed preposterous that someone on Metafilter would suggest that Obama accomplished nothing in 8 years and ask for some recitation of anything that his approach to government got us.
Talk about reading my comment in bad faith. All I meant is that the high road did not work with this current republican situation. I am honestly dumbfounded that you inferred all that from my comment.
posted by futz at 9:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Talk about reading my comment in bad faith. All I meant is that the high road did not work with this current republican situation. I am honestly dumbfounded that you inferred all that from my comment.
posted by futz at 9:57 PM on January 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
(Not sure it was bad faith so much as honest misunderstanding. I think for the most part we are violently agreeing.)
posted by perspicio at 10:18 PM on January 9, 2017
posted by perspicio at 10:18 PM on January 9, 2017
11 Democratic women who could run for president in 2020, ranked
The New Yorker's Amy Davidson has a terrific piece up listing 13 women — 11 Democrats, two Republicans — who she argues should consider running for president against Donald Trump in 2020.posted by kirkaracha at 10:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I took Davidson's premise slightly further below, offering my rankings — in terms of the likelihood they run and the chances they could win the Democratic nomination — of the 11 Democratic women Davidson highlights. (As of today, a Republican primary challenge to Trump seems too unlikely to delve too deep into who might do it.)
There's a very good chance that by 2020 there will be nothing left at all of Obamas entire presidency.
Other than the people who lived through it and benefitted from it, and learn to carry their memories of it like weapons, which is not nothing.
posted by holgate at 10:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
Other than the people who lived through it and benefitted from it, and learn to carry their memories of it like weapons, which is not nothing.
posted by holgate at 10:59 PM on January 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
There's a very good chance that by 2020 there will be nothing left at all of Obamas entire presidency.
I really doubt this. I can't get on board with everyone saying these kinds of things. If I am wrong no one will ever know *KABOOM*.
posted by futz at 11:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I really doubt this. I can't get on board with everyone saying these kinds of things. If I am wrong no one will ever know *KABOOM*.
posted by futz at 11:07 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
History is written by the victors. And unfortunately, Obama's legacy is being scoured and delegitimized. ACA will be known as the first feeble "attempt" at health care across the board for most Americans.
The current government will move forward saying that they are creating the only true, right and proper universal health care act, sanctioned by the majority of voters in the U.S. That is what they want to see in the history books.
It doesn't matter to them how close in form the two programs are, as long as women's health care is gutted. Maybe they will keep the "no pre-conditions" clause. But all the sneering about Obamacare will end when they have their own new-and-improved version to roll out.
The question is how long they will make Americans wait, and suffer, before sending it in to a "grateful" nation. And be sure, they will expect fawning gratitude.
posted by TrishaU at 11:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
The current government will move forward saying that they are creating the only true, right and proper universal health care act, sanctioned by the majority of voters in the U.S. That is what they want to see in the history books.
It doesn't matter to them how close in form the two programs are, as long as women's health care is gutted. Maybe they will keep the "no pre-conditions" clause. But all the sneering about Obamacare will end when they have their own new-and-improved version to roll out.
The question is how long they will make Americans wait, and suffer, before sending it in to a "grateful" nation. And be sure, they will expect fawning gratitude.
posted by TrishaU at 11:21 PM on January 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
The thing that is most upsetting to me is that after berating people in the thread about taking the high road, my comment was not given the same consideration. Instead of asking me to clarify I was instead subjected to the worst low road reading of my comment possible. It would be nice if people would practice what they preach.
posted by futz at 11:29 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by futz at 11:29 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
It doesn't matter to them how close in form the two programs are, as long as women's health care is gutted.
Not quite. Their plan would absolutely include outright misogyny, yes, but it also must discriminate against the poor. It needn't be overtly racist as long as it does this.
If they can't deny poor people coverage outright, and too many people are paying attention for them to make it prohibitively expensive, then they will privatize now and at the earliest convenience they will lament the market forces that put it out of poor people's reach, but what can anybody do?
But I object to your initial statement framing them as the victors. Battle's not over and I'm still fighting.
posted by perspicio at 11:30 PM on January 9, 2017
Not quite. Their plan would absolutely include outright misogyny, yes, but it also must discriminate against the poor. It needn't be overtly racist as long as it does this.
If they can't deny poor people coverage outright, and too many people are paying attention for them to make it prohibitively expensive, then they will privatize now and at the earliest convenience they will lament the market forces that put it out of poor people's reach, but what can anybody do?
But I object to your initial statement framing them as the victors. Battle's not over and I'm still fighting.
posted by perspicio at 11:30 PM on January 9, 2017
There's a very good chance that by 2020 there will be nothing left at all of Obamas entire presidency.
So it's starting to look like reality is reasserting itself & that may not be entirely true. One of Obama's biggest signature accomplishments that Trump ran his campaign on killing, Obamacare, may yet survive. A growing list of GOP Senators (eight & counting: Rand Paul, Lamar Alexander, Rob Portman, Bob Corker, Tom Cotton, Susan Collins, Bill Cassidy & Lisa Murkowski) are saying no to repeal without replace. We only need three of them to stick to their guns & not fold under pressure. And we all know there's no replacement plan that's both workable & palatable to Republicans. So the center might hold after all.
posted by scalefree at 11:35 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
So it's starting to look like reality is reasserting itself & that may not be entirely true. One of Obama's biggest signature accomplishments that Trump ran his campaign on killing, Obamacare, may yet survive. A growing list of GOP Senators (eight & counting: Rand Paul, Lamar Alexander, Rob Portman, Bob Corker, Tom Cotton, Susan Collins, Bill Cassidy & Lisa Murkowski) are saying no to repeal without replace. We only need three of them to stick to their guns & not fold under pressure. And we all know there's no replacement plan that's both workable & palatable to Republicans. So the center might hold after all.
posted by scalefree at 11:35 PM on January 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Tea leaves: Ivanka Trump Won’t Take WH Role, Will Leave Trump Organization
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:43 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
... an unnamed transition official told the Associated Press on Monday.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:43 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ivanka Trump Won’t Take WH Role, Will Leave Trump Organization
She's leaving Dad in the lurch completely? That's gonna leave a mark. Assuming it's true, which who knows with these people. One leaks, another denies. It's higgildy piggildy in the Tower.
posted by scalefree at 11:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
She's leaving Dad in the lurch completely? That's gonna leave a mark. Assuming it's true, which who knows with these people. One leaks, another denies. It's higgildy piggildy in the Tower.
posted by scalefree at 11:51 PM on January 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Donald Trump’s daughter Ivanka will not take a formal position in her father’s administration, an unnamed transition official told the Associated Press on Monday."A small but important difference. Surely she'll just take an informal role, one would assume, whilst being married to someone with a formal role and the one woman the President appears to truly respect/only occasionally want to bang/want to talk to about women's issues.
The issue of nepotism and influence doesn't really go away just because she happens to not want to take the salary (and, indeed, if you're truly being cynical about motivations then not having a formal role is excellent for her - there's also no formal conflicts of interest to deal with if cashing in).
That's assuming this isn't a power struggle leak.
posted by jaduncan at 11:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
futz, I take The World Famous's core concern to be as originally stated: The lesson of 2016 should not be "fuck it, let's just be like the bad guys." Which is a legitimate point of concern. And while I don't think that's what anybody was suggesting, I believe that's the lens through which your and others' comments were (mis)perceived.
I actually think the essence of the difference in viewpoints stems from the fact that The World Famous believes equivalent tactics amounts to moral equivalency.
I mean, she/he can speak for her/himself. But that's how it looks to me.
Personally, I strongly disagree with this idea. Motives matter. Results matter. If you thwart a cabal of sociopaths to prevent harm using the same tactics that they used to prevent good, that is not moral equivalence.
posted by perspicio at 11:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
I actually think the essence of the difference in viewpoints stems from the fact that The World Famous believes equivalent tactics amounts to moral equivalency.
I mean, she/he can speak for her/himself. But that's how it looks to me.
Personally, I strongly disagree with this idea. Motives matter. Results matter. If you thwart a cabal of sociopaths to prevent harm using the same tactics that they used to prevent good, that is not moral equivalence.
posted by perspicio at 11:52 PM on January 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
She's prepping for her inevitable congress/senate run.
posted by PenDevil at 11:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 11:53 PM on January 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
It would be nice if people would practice what they preach.
Yeah. I've noticed more than one post *demanding* civility toward Republicans, throwing around the word 'fuck,' full of contempt for us. You know, people who think manners are only the responsibility of the oppressed.
I don't care what motivates it: I'm done presuming good faith out of those people.
posted by mordax at 11:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah. I've noticed more than one post *demanding* civility toward Republicans, throwing around the word 'fuck,' full of contempt for us. You know, people who think manners are only the responsibility of the oppressed.
I don't care what motivates it: I'm done presuming good faith out of those people.
posted by mordax at 11:56 PM on January 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
perspicio, let's drop it eh? and let other's speak for themselves.
posted by futz at 11:58 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 11:58 PM on January 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Folks, maybe we can drop then tedious cranky squabbling about amorphous, slippery "high road," "low road," "fair play," unspecified concepts. If there's a specific concrete action or proposal that people would like to weigh in on, fine, discuss that and let the thread breath a bit.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Things are not looking up for the Donald in the lead up to his coronation.
Daily Kos summarizes a series of Financial Times pieces that tie huge infusions of cash from Russian drug lords to him, implicate him in a massive Russian money laundering operation & expose his connection to a very shady character from the Fatherland. Perfectly timed for Wednesday's press conference on his conflicts of interest.
posted by scalefree at 12:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
Daily Kos summarizes a series of Financial Times pieces that tie huge infusions of cash from Russian drug lords to him, implicate him in a massive Russian money laundering operation & expose his connection to a very shady character from the Fatherland. Perfectly timed for Wednesday's press conference on his conflicts of interest.
posted by scalefree at 12:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
Ivanka Trump Won’t Take WH Role, Will Leave Trump Organization
Yeah, I'm going with this is a behavioral lie. A fig leaf of a story for an indolent and solicitous press to repeat to the public to create a vague impression of legitimacy. And anyway, formality, no formality, what's the difference? Who cares what lie you have to tell to do whatever you wanted to in the first place.
posted by perspicio at 12:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I'm going with this is a behavioral lie. A fig leaf of a story for an indolent and solicitous press to repeat to the public to create a vague impression of legitimacy. And anyway, formality, no formality, what's the difference? Who cares what lie you have to tell to do whatever you wanted to in the first place.
posted by perspicio at 12:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
There is no way that First Daughter is out of the loop. She is going to get her Cersei Lannister persona ready for prime time behind the curtain and in the shadows.
dun dun dun...
posted by futz at 12:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
dun dun dun...
posted by futz at 12:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
the Fatherland
That should read Mother Russia I guess. Germany's the Fatherland, no? My bad.
posted by scalefree at 12:32 AM on January 10, 2017
That should read Mother Russia I guess. Germany's the Fatherland, no? My bad.
posted by scalefree at 12:32 AM on January 10, 2017
The Empire will probably also do.
posted by christopherious at 1:22 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by christopherious at 1:22 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't want to say Ivanka's a rat (I don't know the first thing about her) or that her father's whole existence is a sinking ship (though of course one can hope) but that's sure what it reads like to me. And good for her.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by From Bklyn at 1:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
My read, for what it's worth, is that she's positioning herself to not be formally responsible for anything She's unique in that she doesn't need an official position, so why take the risk of being tied to a sinking ship? This way she can continue to influence her father and ameliorate his image, but if things go south she won't be blamed for anything.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone: President Obama's Last Stand
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
The appointments of Kushner and Ivanka are attempts to dodge the vetting process. By taking "unpaid" and "unofficial" jobs, they're not required to undergo investigations for potential conflicts. Whoever advised them (presumably Bannon) is using all the tricks and loopholes he can to basically sneak an entire second inner circle into the White House.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 2:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
That Daily Kos summary of the Financial Times stories is great! I have a good feeling that this is just going to continue to develop and Trump will become such a liability to the Republicans that they will have to impeach him.
Especially if they fail to repeal Obamacare, making them look bad to their base-- they can blame him! (He supposedly said in private that he doesn't want to repeal, without replacing it.)
Of course, then we will have to deal with Pence and the rest of the rogues' gallery. Constant vigilance will still be require. And constant vigilance is exhausting. But if "political pressure" (ie "voters") can indeed force them to dump Trump, that will suggest that at least constant vigilance can work. Let's push hard on this story.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Especially if they fail to repeal Obamacare, making them look bad to their base-- they can blame him! (He supposedly said in private that he doesn't want to repeal, without replacing it.)
Of course, then we will have to deal with Pence and the rest of the rogues' gallery. Constant vigilance will still be require. And constant vigilance is exhausting. But if "political pressure" (ie "voters") can indeed force them to dump Trump, that will suggest that at least constant vigilance can work. Let's push hard on this story.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Taibbi Rolling Stone article is indeed really great. Lifted my spirits and gave me hope.
posted by StrawberryPie at 3:59 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by StrawberryPie at 3:59 AM on January 10, 2017
The Dems can play this however they like, with one proviso. Don't lie. The Reptiles are fundamentally, intensely, compulsively dishonest. They lie about their motives, they lie about their promises, they lie about their methods, they lie about their results.
Either you believe that honesty counts or you don't. to yourself and to the majority of the people.
Make your choice, stick to it, and go to war.
As I said above, the foreign dealings are a great place to start. The politicians and lawyers can assemble the case and present it to the people, the propagandists can make the posters, build the themes, have fun with it. What does Trump stand for? Take rubles, make policy. The Russians Must Pay. Totally reckless under Mr Putin. Make pictures of the inhuman centipede, with Trump's mouth sewn to Putin's dollar-spewing arse. That sort of thing.
Dirty? Yes. Dishonest? No. And the Left has far, far better propagandists than the others.
posted by Devonian at 4:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
Either you believe that honesty counts or you don't. to yourself and to the majority of the people.
Make your choice, stick to it, and go to war.
As I said above, the foreign dealings are a great place to start. The politicians and lawyers can assemble the case and present it to the people, the propagandists can make the posters, build the themes, have fun with it. What does Trump stand for? Take rubles, make policy. The Russians Must Pay. Totally reckless under Mr Putin. Make pictures of the inhuman centipede, with Trump's mouth sewn to Putin's dollar-spewing arse. That sort of thing.
Dirty? Yes. Dishonest? No. And the Left has far, far better propagandists than the others.
posted by Devonian at 4:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
Democrats need to keep using all the Trump + Putin + Drug lords to push for a special prosecutor or the NY AG needs to make it his full time job. The Republicans might control Congress but if the act in too partisan a manner to protect a corrupt figure it will drag them down in 2018 and 2020.
posted by vuron at 4:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by vuron at 4:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's not a lot of evidence yet, and we shouldn't claim that there is. What we should do is point out how consistently Trump's agenda has been "whatever Russia wants" and how clear the evidence is that they wanted him as president, and then demand investigations into WHY. These Financial Times stories detail what needs to be investigated.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:38 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:38 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm curious to see if the bailouts from Russia line up well with Trump's political transition from "democrat" to republican stooge.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
And everything he achieved is about to be rolled back or worse. There's a very good chance that by 2020 there will be nothing left at all of Obamas entire presidency.
This is fear-mongering. For example: marriage equality. It is not going away. Even if, IF, somehow, Trump gets to nominate another Supreme Court member after replacing Scalia, SCOTUS has always been reluctant to overturn brand new decisions, and there's no evidence that Alito and company would vote to do so. Additionally, even if they DID, that would not invalidate the couples who were married while marriage equality was the law of the land.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is fear-mongering. For example: marriage equality. It is not going away. Even if, IF, somehow, Trump gets to nominate another Supreme Court member after replacing Scalia, SCOTUS has always been reluctant to overturn brand new decisions, and there's no evidence that Alito and company would vote to do so. Additionally, even if they DID, that would not invalidate the couples who were married while marriage equality was the law of the land.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Democrats won't run a woman in 2020. They probably won't run one in 2024 / 28 / 32, either. Too much of a risk.
And the Greens will accuse us of being sexist cowards, fuck them all.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
And the Greens will accuse us of being sexist cowards, fuck them all.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's plenty of circumstantial evidence and it would be easy - trivial even - for Trump to provide refutation for the allegations. If he had any. But not only does he not have any, he's transparently hiding stuff like his tax returns and corporate books wherein, one must assume, lie the smoking guns (if you can use that cliche to describe a scene that probably resembles the Kursk salient)..
You don't need court-grade evidence for propaganda. You need a grain of truth. There's an entire silo.
posted by Devonian at 5:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
You don't need court-grade evidence for propaganda. You need a grain of truth. There's an entire silo.
posted by Devonian at 5:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, but for me propaganda isn't the point. I want real investigations. Not just Benghazi-like "investigations." I want to kick him out because he really is dirty, not just because we can make him look that way.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think one aspect that the Republicans tend to ignore to their detriment is that to a large degree they have inherited championing the cause of rural small town America from the old southern Democrats.
For the most part they are able to act in punitive ways because laws and things like sentencing guidelines can disproportionately target minorities. Thus white racial hegemony is maintained.
However when you get into the social safety net it becomes clear how dangerous dismantling of social programs is going to hurt red state America.
SS benefits the elderly who tend to be disproportionately clustered in Rural and suburban areas as young people are generally drawn to the cities. Same with medicare.
SSDI is heavily clustered in rural red state areas. Medicaid is more evenly clustered but major changes to it would likely cripple rural hospitals and doctors.
Repeal ACA and medicare goes right back to a stupid burn rate.
Dealing with any of these programs is like trying to play a game of Jenga with a really tall tower that is precarious in it's foundations. You want to make changes but any changes are quite possibly going to cause the whole system to collapse and inevitably lead to things like single payer.
Some Republicans seem to know this and are backing away from the ledge. It was convenient to do charades if repeal votes when Obama was in office but with Trump there is no longer a convenient veto.
Trump in particular seems unlikely to get out and champion replace and delay. After all it will no doubt make profiting from his position more difficult.
posted by vuron at 5:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
For the most part they are able to act in punitive ways because laws and things like sentencing guidelines can disproportionately target minorities. Thus white racial hegemony is maintained.
However when you get into the social safety net it becomes clear how dangerous dismantling of social programs is going to hurt red state America.
SS benefits the elderly who tend to be disproportionately clustered in Rural and suburban areas as young people are generally drawn to the cities. Same with medicare.
SSDI is heavily clustered in rural red state areas. Medicaid is more evenly clustered but major changes to it would likely cripple rural hospitals and doctors.
Repeal ACA and medicare goes right back to a stupid burn rate.
Dealing with any of these programs is like trying to play a game of Jenga with a really tall tower that is precarious in it's foundations. You want to make changes but any changes are quite possibly going to cause the whole system to collapse and inevitably lead to things like single payer.
Some Republicans seem to know this and are backing away from the ledge. It was convenient to do charades if repeal votes when Obama was in office but with Trump there is no longer a convenient veto.
Trump in particular seems unlikely to get out and champion replace and delay. After all it will no doubt make profiting from his position more difficult.
posted by vuron at 5:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, but for me propaganda isn't the point. I want real investigations.
You do both. The grown-ups do the proper investigations, the rest of us stir the pot.
Meanwhile, Ted Malloch - arch-Brexiteer and noted C memory management command - is said to be the pick for the US Ambassador to the EU, at Farage's suggestion.
He was on the television the other night predicting the collapse of the EU by the end of the year. Trump is teating the EU like the enemy just as much as he's treating Russia like a bosom ally.
(Not gonna link to story - it's in the Mail)
posted by Devonian at 5:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
You do both. The grown-ups do the proper investigations, the rest of us stir the pot.
Meanwhile, Ted Malloch - arch-Brexiteer and noted C memory management command - is said to be the pick for the US Ambassador to the EU, at Farage's suggestion.
He was on the television the other night predicting the collapse of the EU by the end of the year. Trump is teating the EU like the enemy just as much as he's treating Russia like a bosom ally.
(Not gonna link to story - it's in the Mail)
posted by Devonian at 5:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
11 Democratic women who could run for president in 2020, ranked
Tulsi Gabbard is not a valid choice for president. Her BJP links are toxic.
posted by Talez at 5:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Tulsi Gabbard is not a valid choice for president. Her BJP links are toxic.
posted by Talez at 5:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sen. Cory Booker, Rep. John Lewis to Testify Against Jeff Sessions for Attorney General
Booker will be the first sitting Senator to testify against another in US history. The visuals and soundbites will almost assuredly be used for his 2020 campaign.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
Booker will be the first sitting Senator to testify against another in US history. The visuals and soundbites will almost assuredly be used for his 2020 campaign.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
Elsewhere on the Sessions front: Jeff Sessions's Unqualified Praise for a 1924 Immigration Law
posted by zombieflanders at 5:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
The 1924 immigration law, known as the Johnson-Reed Act, drastically limited immigration and made permanent restrictions designed to keep out Southern and Eastern Europeans, particularly Italians and Jews, Africans, and Middle Easterners, barring Asian immigration entirely.Note that Flores' assertion about "rising crime" is a lie that has often been used by Trump and his followers (and a fair number of non-Trumpist voters) to portray PoC as inherently violent.
Asked about the interview, Sessions’s spokesperson Sarah Isgur Flores wrote in an email “As Attorney General, Sessions will prioritize curtailing the threats that rising crime and addiction rates pose to the health and safety of our country and that includes enforcing our existing immigration laws.”
[...]
Sessions’s praise for the 1924 law highlights the difficulty of making the case for immigration restriction, which often relies on popular antagonism toward particular immigrant groups rather than the benefits of restriction per se. The centerpieces of Donald Trump’s immigration policies have been a wall on the U.S.-Mexican border and a ban on Muslims entering the United States.
“I don’t know any historian who would tell you the 1920s law wasn’t a racist law. That was what it was all about, they didn’t try to hide that,” said David Reimes, a professor of history at New York University. The national origin restrictions in the 1924 law were not fully lifted until the passage of the 1965 Nationality and Immigration Act.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Meanwhile, Ted Malloch - arch-Brexiteer and noted C memory management command - is said to be the pick for the US Ambassador to the EU, at Farage's suggestion.
What the everloving fuck? It is good that I've never believed in karma, because the continued ability of Farage to walk around without a seriously terrible thing happening once or twice an hour would otherwise confuse me.
posted by jaduncan at 5:38 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
What the everloving fuck? It is good that I've never believed in karma, because the continued ability of Farage to walk around without a seriously terrible thing happening once or twice an hour would otherwise confuse me.
posted by jaduncan at 5:38 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Bomb Threats Reported at 16 Jewish Centers in Nine U.S. States
D.C. Area Jewish Family Targeted With anti-Semitic Threats After Voicing Support for Black Lives Matter
The second article has this bit of jaw-dropping police incompetence/malfeasance (emphasis mine):
posted by zombieflanders at 6:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
D.C. Area Jewish Family Targeted With anti-Semitic Threats After Voicing Support for Black Lives Matter
The second article has this bit of jaw-dropping police incompetence/malfeasance (emphasis mine):
The Franklins informed the police about the incident on Sunday, and while the police arrived and examined the letter, the couple was disappointed when the initial police reaction was to say that "there's nothing in there that is anti-Semitic" and that it's unknown what the word "Jude" means. A local police spokesman added that the letter was most likely written by kids. On Monday, however, the police announced it was treating the event as a hate crime, and that it was committed to providing "the highest levels of police services" to all residents.What's worrying is that the officer(s) that responded saw a yellow Star of David and the word "Jude" in a specific type of lettering and saw nothing wrong. Either our schools have failed or there's anti-Semitic police officers just running around trying to cover up hate crimes.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
You don't need court-grade evidence for propaganda. You need a grain of truth. There's an entire silo.
A whole pyramid, full of truth!
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
A whole pyramid, full of truth!
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Either our schools have failed or there's anti-Semitic police officers just running around trying to cover up hate crimes.
why_not_both.gif
posted by entropicamericana at 6:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
why_not_both.gif
posted by entropicamericana at 6:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
Why do you think police officers are so overpaid compared to their qualifications?
They're there to keep Anglo-Saxon people in orderly power.
posted by Yowser at 6:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
They're there to keep Anglo-Saxon people in orderly power.
posted by Yowser at 6:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Sessions confirmation hearing is scheduled to start soon:
Zoe Tillman from Buzzfeed is liveblogging on Twitter (I'm sure others will be too, this is the first one that popped up on my feed)
CSPAN link; they also have a feed outside the hearing
posted by melissasaurus at 6:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Zoe Tillman from Buzzfeed is liveblogging on Twitter (I'm sure others will be too, this is the first one that popped up on my feed)
CSPAN link; they also have a feed outside the hearing
posted by melissasaurus at 6:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Protestor as he's being removed from Sessions hearing: "White people don't get arrested"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Timothy Shenk in The New Republic: Dead Center: Jonathan Chait's new book shows the failure of "grown up" liberalism.
Chait has also discarded Schlesinger’s faith in political activism, replacing it with a vision of Americans too busy with their own lives to bother with politics. Ignorant of the stakes in policy disputes, they become averse to partisan conflict, assuming that the truth must fall between the two sides. Having removed voters from the picture, policy-making becomes a battle between conservative activists and liberal technocrats, with the business community often serving as tiebreaker. Chait sees the interplay between radicals and policymakers as a burden foisted on Republicans, while Democrats merely have to fend off demands from an ineffectual left.posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Schlesinger had different aspirations. Despite the gloom that hung over The Vital Center’s view of its time, his account was fundamentally optimistic. He was confident that the United States had set out on a road that would lead it to social democracy. Future economic downturns would lead to more New Deals and “capitalist suicide.” His only fear was that liberals would fail to meet the craving for a deeper purpose than transactional wheeling and dealing. Chait doesn’t share this anxiety. Schlesinger’s radical democracy has become Chait’s chastened technocracy, with all Schlesinger’s self-righteousness intact. With that in mind, his claim that Obama’s distinctive genius lay in his ability to “make technocracy lyrical” becomes high praise. Today, it could hardly be more damning.
I mean, I'm not a Green, but yes, it would indeed be sexist cowardice to refrain from running a woman just because she's a woman.
If a woman can't win, then it harms all women to run a woman as the Democratic nominee. Because if she can't win, it guarantees the Republican nominee will, and the Republican platform is harmful to women. Symbolic gains are nice (I was one of those women who was very excited to tell my daughters they could be anything, even president), but probably not worth sacrificing the health and career of millions of people for.
On the other hand, that's a pretty big "if." Presumably some woman could win, even if Hillary Clinton couldn't. Some magical special unicorn who has enough of a record to be qualified but not enough of one to be an "insider." Someone attractive but not too sexy to be taken seriously. Someone feminine but still tough on crime and national security. Someone who has succeeded at both family and career...
Unfortunately I think a woman probably can't be elected unless she's twice as electable as the next best man in line. And so, if the Democrats can find such a super-electable woman, I think they should nomiate her. And if they can't they shouldn't, for the sake of all American women. They have an obligation to run a candidate who can win.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
If a woman can't win, then it harms all women to run a woman as the Democratic nominee. Because if she can't win, it guarantees the Republican nominee will, and the Republican platform is harmful to women. Symbolic gains are nice (I was one of those women who was very excited to tell my daughters they could be anything, even president), but probably not worth sacrificing the health and career of millions of people for.
On the other hand, that's a pretty big "if." Presumably some woman could win, even if Hillary Clinton couldn't. Some magical special unicorn who has enough of a record to be qualified but not enough of one to be an "insider." Someone attractive but not too sexy to be taken seriously. Someone feminine but still tough on crime and national security. Someone who has succeeded at both family and career...
Unfortunately I think a woman probably can't be elected unless she's twice as electable as the next best man in line. And so, if the Democrats can find such a super-electable woman, I think they should nomiate her. And if they can't they shouldn't, for the sake of all American women. They have an obligation to run a candidate who can win.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
It'd be the wrong lesson that 'no woman can win'. Clinton couldn't, yes, against the worst opponent to ever run for president in American history, but she was a uniquely flawed candidate herself. No other candidate will ever again run with her combination of 30 years of a Republican and media hate campaign already having been run against her, hardened public opinion against her, foreign interference on behalf of the Republican opponent, betrayal by the FBI breaking the law to campaign against her, running essentially as a 3rd term incumbent, a media desperately eager to magnify her "scandals" while ignoring any scrutiny of her opponent, AND ALSO being a woman.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
Just came in to say fuck Jonathon Chait and the Iraq War he rode in on.
posted by notyou at 7:12 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:12 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Looks like Sessions has some of his cute grandkids in the front row. No word on whether they'll be Special Advisors to the President.
Protestors being removed yelling "no KKK".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Protestors being removed yelling "no KKK".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Shout out to the protestors getting thrown out every minute or so.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Gosh I wonder why Sessions would have cute kids around him.
posted by Yowser at 7:21 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by Yowser at 7:21 AM on January 10, 2017
I'm following the live-tweeting of the Sessions appointment and it's amazing at the gulf between Democrats and even the Republicans. Here's some examples of Dianne Feinstein's questioning:
posted by zombieflanders at 7:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [49 favorites]
@AdamSerwer: Feinstein, referring to Trump's threats toward HRC, says an AG does not investigate or prosecute on the direction of the president., Feinstein cites Sessions statement on hate crimes bill in which he said he didn't think hate crimes against women and LGBT were happeningAnd here's Susan Collins:
@TalalNAnsari: Sen. Feinstein: "Most importantly his job will be to enforce federal law equally, equally, for all Americans"
@KatyTurNBC: Sen Feinstein -unlike Grassley- expresses "deep concern" going thru his ultra conservative voting record - dream act, torture, hate crimes +, Feinstein bringing up recent votes to undercut the argument that Sen Sessions controversies (like racism charges) are well int he past.
@ZoeTillman
Feinstein: job of attorney general is to enforce civil rights and constitutional freedoms, including a woman's right to choose
@KatyTurNBC: "The vast majority of you have already served w Sessions and you know him well." - Sen Collins, "I have every confidence [Sessions] will execute the office go AG honestly faithfully and fully in the pursuit of justice."Remember, Collins is a NeverTrumper. If this is their response to possibly the worst of Trump's nominees, it's absolutely pathetic.
@AdamSerwer: Collins says Sessions worked on reducing the crack/powder disparity. (Sessions supported *reducing* it; opposed eliminating it entirely), There is no reason for treating them differently under the law, Collins says Sessions can't be racist because he's hired black people
posted by zombieflanders at 7:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [49 favorites]
Sessions is on bended knee worshipping law enforcers right now.
I'm no judge, but I'm pretty sure that that's now how this works.
posted by Yowser at 7:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm no judge, but I'm pretty sure that that's now how this works.
posted by Yowser at 7:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Collins isn't never anything. Collins is and has always been AlwaysCollins and will never be one whit better than that utterly craven minimum.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
More from Serwer: Sessions links public criticism of policing to literal murder of police officers
This man is vile and should never have been allowed to be a judge or Senator, let alone nominated to be among the highest legal authorities in the country.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
This man is vile and should never have been allowed to be a judge or Senator, let alone nominated to be among the highest legal authorities in the country.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
Gosh I wonder why Sessions would have cute kids around him.
Never watched The Dead Zone, I take it?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Never watched The Dead Zone, I take it?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did he just suggest that the DOJ would prosecute "welfare fraud?" Am I reading that wrong? Christ on a cracker.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
I have the sound off on the livestream and just see Sessions' little invertebrate mouth silently moving around. Can only assume that he's cheerily going on about how the country is going to be able to torture innocent people to death with impunity again.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 AM on January 10, 2017
It'd be the wrong lesson that 'no woman can win'.
Being female is a liability. Between four years of slander and gerrymandering and a piss-poor press, any candidate in 2020 will need every advantage they can get.
And one of those advantages is to be a WASP man.
It sucks, but (I say this as a Millenial woman) we can't afford to look weak.
Had HRC won, the entire playing field would look different. But it doesn't. And the "I'm not sexist, I'm voting for a woman!" asshats with double standards contributed to this mess.
That said, people who are writing off politicians due to one or two policy stances are missing the point. The most conservative Democrat right now would be far better than anyone else. Ideological purity is something we simply can't afford anymore.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:34 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Being female is a liability. Between four years of slander and gerrymandering and a piss-poor press, any candidate in 2020 will need every advantage they can get.
And one of those advantages is to be a WASP man.
It sucks, but (I say this as a Millenial woman) we can't afford to look weak.
Had HRC won, the entire playing field would look different. But it doesn't. And the "I'm not sexist, I'm voting for a woman!" asshats with double standards contributed to this mess.
That said, people who are writing off politicians due to one or two policy stances are missing the point. The most conservative Democrat right now would be far better than anyone else. Ideological purity is something we simply can't afford anymore.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:34 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's OK, now he's just promising to take racist voter suppression national, no biggie.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Collins isn't never anything. Collins is and has always been AlwaysCollins and will never be one whit better than that utterly craven minimum.
So, yeah. Collins is one of my Senators.
She's a weird mix of things. I firmly believe she is supporting Sessions simply because she personally knows him and likes him. But she's also demonstrating quite a bit of backbone on the ACA/Medicare thing, and I suspect she's a big part of why the Devos hearing was postponed. She's beholden to the very very blue Southern Maine voters if she wants to stay in office.
I think so long as Maine Dems keep up the pressure (including maybe thanking her for her vote with the Ds on the Medicare thing yesterday), she'll do the right thing about 65% of the time. Which, honestly, is better than 0% of the time.
Don't count on her, but don't write her off either.
posted by anastasiav at 7:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, yeah. Collins is one of my Senators.
She's a weird mix of things. I firmly believe she is supporting Sessions simply because she personally knows him and likes him. But she's also demonstrating quite a bit of backbone on the ACA/Medicare thing, and I suspect she's a big part of why the Devos hearing was postponed. She's beholden to the very very blue Southern Maine voters if she wants to stay in office.
I think so long as Maine Dems keep up the pressure (including maybe thanking her for her vote with the Ds on the Medicare thing yesterday), she'll do the right thing about 65% of the time. Which, honestly, is better than 0% of the time.
Don't count on her, but don't write her off either.
posted by anastasiav at 7:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sessions was advocating for total law enforcement control(in political language, naturally), so yes, torture is on the table.
posted by Yowser at 7:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 7:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's OK, now he's just promising to take racist voter suppression national, no biggie.'
This is the only reason he was nominated. Everything else is secondary to the new Jim Crow. Republicans are determined to negate any Democratic demographic advantage through brutal vote suppression. They don't intend to allow free elections ever again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is the only reason he was nominated. Everything else is secondary to the new Jim Crow. Republicans are determined to negate any Democratic demographic advantage through brutal vote suppression. They don't intend to allow free elections ever again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
@AriBerman: I can't say this enough: Sessions wrongly prosecuted people who nearly died marching for voting rights in Selma
Sessions said today about these prosecutions: "It was a voting rights case." Unbelievable
posted by zombieflanders at 7:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
Sessions said today about these prosecutions: "It was a voting rights case." Unbelievable
posted by zombieflanders at 7:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
That said, people who are writing off politicians due to one or two policy stances are missing the point. The most conservative Democrat right now would be far better than anyone else. Ideological purity is something we simply can't afford anymore.
dems are gonna look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
dems are gonna look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
GOP Senator: ‘Yeah,’ Trump’s Cabinet Picks Should Be Treated Differently
Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) was asked by the Huffington Post if Trump’s Cabinet picks should be asked to disclose income from foreign sources, as he and 25 other senators asked of President Barack Obama’s nominee for secretary of defense, Chuck Hagel, back in 2013.
Infohe said no.
“So it’s different now because it’s Trump?” HuffPost asked.
“That’s just right,” the Oklahoma senator replied.
posted by diogenes at 7:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) was asked by the Huffington Post if Trump’s Cabinet picks should be asked to disclose income from foreign sources, as he and 25 other senators asked of President Barack Obama’s nominee for secretary of defense, Chuck Hagel, back in 2013.
Infohe said no.
“So it’s different now because it’s Trump?” HuffPost asked.
“That’s just right,” the Oklahoma senator replied.
posted by diogenes at 7:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sessions said just now that it's "unacceptable situations" he would say no to the President on, which he contrasted with "grey areas". Unsurprisingly, he didn't say anything about holding the line against Trump in the grey areas.
posted by XMLicious at 7:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 7:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Clinton couldn't, yes, against the worst opponent to ever run for president in American history, but she was a uniquely flawed candidate herself.
Two things:
1. Trump may horribly unqualified, but he did somehow succeed at getting enough votes to win from the primary to the general election. It's easy to to dismiss him since he "should" have lost, but there's clearly some base of support for his message and we can't assume that any other candidate would have done better in an actual race.
2. Clinton's flaw with voters was primarily that she was a woman. I'm done with saying she was flawed. She had a boatload of experience and ran on a very progressive platform. Every candidate is "uniquely flawed." If you want a candidate that you think doesn't have flaws, you need to run for office yourself, and then never compromise. Looking past Clinton, there is no woman waiting in the wings with anywhere close to a comparable record. I think experience is probably overrated given an appropriate temperament — Obama demonstrated this — but any woman will need an extensive resume just to get in the door and there simply isn't anyone else qualified to step up next. After Hillary we may need to wait another 15 years for the next shot.
posted by stopgap at 7:46 AM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Two things:
1. Trump may horribly unqualified, but he did somehow succeed at getting enough votes to win from the primary to the general election. It's easy to to dismiss him since he "should" have lost, but there's clearly some base of support for his message and we can't assume that any other candidate would have done better in an actual race.
2. Clinton's flaw with voters was primarily that she was a woman. I'm done with saying she was flawed. She had a boatload of experience and ran on a very progressive platform. Every candidate is "uniquely flawed." If you want a candidate that you think doesn't have flaws, you need to run for office yourself, and then never compromise. Looking past Clinton, there is no woman waiting in the wings with anywhere close to a comparable record. I think experience is probably overrated given an appropriate temperament — Obama demonstrated this — but any woman will need an extensive resume just to get in the door and there simply isn't anyone else qualified to step up next. After Hillary we may need to wait another 15 years for the next shot.
posted by stopgap at 7:46 AM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Chuck Grassley is being a shitheel. Not only is he rehabilitating Sessions' "LOCK HER UP" bullshit (which should instantly disqualify anyone from attorney general) he's still campaigning for Trump against Clinton.
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
the difference between "unacceptable situations" and "grey areas" will be between the electric fences around the camps delivering lethal shocks versus just painful ones.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:48 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:48 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
The clearly-rehearsed nature of this Grassley-Sessions exchange on Clinton makes me think they really are planning to open a criminal case against her.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
The most conservative Democrat right now would be far better than anyone else. Ideological purity is something we simply can't afford anymore.
Timid attempts to compromise and run as Republican Lite are exactly the sort of weak-willed shit that keeps people home. Did you not notice the part where a fucking AVOWED SOCIALIST gave the establishment Dem a real run for her money in the primary and polled quite favorably against the Republican? Not having an ideological voice and playing to focus groups and likely voter screens to select the most inoffensive possible candidate is not a clever strategy, it is a cowardly posture that will get us steamrolled, especially against a demagogue like Trump.
posted by contraption at 7:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
Timid attempts to compromise and run as Republican Lite are exactly the sort of weak-willed shit that keeps people home. Did you not notice the part where a fucking AVOWED SOCIALIST gave the establishment Dem a real run for her money in the primary and polled quite favorably against the Republican? Not having an ideological voice and playing to focus groups and likely voter screens to select the most inoffensive possible candidate is not a clever strategy, it is a cowardly posture that will get us steamrolled, especially against a demagogue like Trump.
posted by contraption at 7:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
The clearly-rehearsed nature of this Grassley-Sessions exchange on Clinton makes me think they really are planning to open a criminal case against her.
What, and let her defend herself?
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
What, and let her defend herself?
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well. If Feinstein is setting D tone it looks like we're going to have AG Jeff Sessions and it's business as usual.
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, normally the idea that the AG would support the president in legal grey areas (like, defending a statute that can perhaps be interpreted two different ways, but its a good faith argument by the government) - that is fine and completely expected. The problem is that I don't know what Sessions considers a "legal grey area." I'm guessing it's more like, "are [X group] actually people?" as opposed to normal legal issues that are debated in courtrooms across the country daily.
posted by gatorae at 7:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's going to be tough to watch his shit eating grin for the next few years.
posted by Talez at 7:53 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:53 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm done with saying she was flawed. She had a boatload of experience and ran on a very progressive platform. Every candidate is "uniquely flawed." If you want a candidate that you think doesn't have flaws, you need to run for office yourself, and then never compromise. Looking past Clinton, there is no woman waiting in the wings with anywhere close to a comparable record.
Fine, she had a great platform. No one cared. They didn't even read it. The media didn't even look at it. She couldn't get on TV when she talked about it. They cared about the 30 years of media attacks and constant Republican campaign against the Clintons since 1992. That was her unique flaw that no one else in the national conscious has or will have again. It was obvious from the moment she ran in 2008, carried over to 2016, and easily avoidable that entire time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fine, she had a great platform. No one cared. They didn't even read it. The media didn't even look at it. She couldn't get on TV when she talked about it. They cared about the 30 years of media attacks and constant Republican campaign against the Clintons since 1992. That was her unique flaw that no one else in the national conscious has or will have again. It was obvious from the moment she ran in 2008, carried over to 2016, and easily avoidable that entire time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm done with saying she was flawed
Well, that makes one of us
Make it two, then, because what I saw the closer I looked at Clinton's career is that her "flaws" were largely the result of trying to adapt to decades of unrepenting public ire, shame, and slime that looks suspiciously fucking misogynist in origin. I'm fucking done. You think that there is perfection in politics? Find me someone immune to the kind of mistakes Clinton made, or the kind of public propaganda and mudslinging she survived, and do me one better and find a woman. Elizabeth Warren ain't it; Warren has not been as high profile as Clinton or, frankly, as scrutinized for nearly as long. I couldn't do it, myself, and I work fucking hard at my ethics and my choices.
Make it fucking two. And let's get the fuck on with this fight, because it's going to be a long damn road we're holding the line, and navel-gazing self-criticism is only going to make the fascists' job easier. We need to hold the fucking line.
posted by sciatrix at 7:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [64 favorites]
Well, that makes one of us
Make it two, then, because what I saw the closer I looked at Clinton's career is that her "flaws" were largely the result of trying to adapt to decades of unrepenting public ire, shame, and slime that looks suspiciously fucking misogynist in origin. I'm fucking done. You think that there is perfection in politics? Find me someone immune to the kind of mistakes Clinton made, or the kind of public propaganda and mudslinging she survived, and do me one better and find a woman. Elizabeth Warren ain't it; Warren has not been as high profile as Clinton or, frankly, as scrutinized for nearly as long. I couldn't do it, myself, and I work fucking hard at my ethics and my choices.
Make it fucking two. And let's get the fuck on with this fight, because it's going to be a long damn road we're holding the line, and navel-gazing self-criticism is only going to make the fascists' job easier. We need to hold the fucking line.
posted by sciatrix at 7:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [64 favorites]
Timid attempts to compromise and run as Republican Lite are exactly the sort of weak-willed shit that keeps people home.
We need the socialists AND the Republican Lites. We need everyone who believes in democracy. The country will be looted and our system of government destroyed, otherwise. It's all hands on deck, here. Anyone who stays home needs to accept they are partly to blame if our democracy dies. Everyone get out, vote against the looters, and then we can go back to fighting amongst ourselves about policy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
We need the socialists AND the Republican Lites. We need everyone who believes in democracy. The country will be looted and our system of government destroyed, otherwise. It's all hands on deck, here. Anyone who stays home needs to accept they are partly to blame if our democracy dies. Everyone get out, vote against the looters, and then we can go back to fighting amongst ourselves about policy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is anyone live tweeting actual quotes from Sessions?
posted by corb at 7:57 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 7:57 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Being female is a liability.
Fuck THAT.
posted by agregoli at 7:57 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fuck THAT.
posted by agregoli at 7:57 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sessions is saying exactly what he needs to in order to try and dodge the Roe v Wade requirement.
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh wow feinstein an incredible disappointment this is my surprised face
posted by entropicamericana at 7:58 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:58 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is anyone live tweeting actual quotes from Sessions?
Emily Flitter (@FlitterOnFraud) is doing a decent job of livetweeting quotes.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Emily Flitter (@FlitterOnFraud) is doing a decent job of livetweeting quotes.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
They cared about the 30 years of media attacks and constant Republican campaign against the Clintons since 1992. That was her unique flaw that no one else in the national conscious has or will have again.
John Kerry got three Purple Hearts and the Silver Star, and they were turned into a weakness. Every Democratic nominee will have a "unique flaw", because the other side has gotten very fucking good at finding and/or making them up.
posted by Etrigan at 7:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
John Kerry got three Purple Hearts and the Silver Star, and they were turned into a weakness. Every Democratic nominee will have a "unique flaw", because the other side has gotten very fucking good at finding and/or making them up.
posted by Etrigan at 7:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
Fuck you Sessions you shitheel. You must have a lot of chutzpah to say you aren't a racist. The only reason you didn't join the KKK was because they smoked pot.
posted by Talez at 8:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
> What I saw the closer I looked at Clinton's career is that her "flaws" were largely the result of trying to adapt to decades of unrepenting public ire, shame, and slime that looks suspiciously fucking misogynist in origin. I'm fucking done.
Yeah me too. She'd have made a fine president, and instead we have a vulgar short-fingered talking yam to deal with. So let's deal with that.
(I missed you, post-Election thread. Even though I know you didn't miss me.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah me too. She'd have made a fine president, and instead we have a vulgar short-fingered talking yam to deal with. So let's deal with that.
(I missed you, post-Election thread. Even though I know you didn't miss me.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is anyone live tweeting actual quotes from Sessions?
I don't know why it matters, really. He's mostly just giving seemingly-coached answers that are in direct contradiction to his words and deeds of the last several decades.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:02 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't know why it matters, really. He's mostly just giving seemingly-coached answers that are in direct contradiction to his words and deeds of the last several decades.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:02 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
diogenes "So it’s different now because it’s Trump?” HuffPost asked.
“That’s just right,” the Oklahoma senator replied.
Well of **COURSE** its different. See, Obama made a horrible mistake, he nominated people who were merely experts in their field with years of experience and sometimes Nobel Prizes. You know, unimportant peasants. Such people simply can't be trusted and must be examined very carefully to make sure they aren't stealing small change or pocketing the silver. You can't expect to put Those People into positions of power without an extremely through examination.
Trump, very thoughtfully and properly, has nominated important people. Rich people. People who, like him, don't pay taxes. And those people simply won't stand for being treated like peasants. They're unaccustomed to pathetic little nobodies who aren't worth even a single million dollars trying to pry into their affairs. Quite properly they've refused to even acknowledge the pathetic requests for information. You have all the information you need: they're rich. That anyone would even dream of asking a member of the aristocracy for the details of their affairs is a shocking impropriety.
posted by sotonohito at 8:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
“That’s just right,” the Oklahoma senator replied.
Well of **COURSE** its different. See, Obama made a horrible mistake, he nominated people who were merely experts in their field with years of experience and sometimes Nobel Prizes. You know, unimportant peasants. Such people simply can't be trusted and must be examined very carefully to make sure they aren't stealing small change or pocketing the silver. You can't expect to put Those People into positions of power without an extremely through examination.
Trump, very thoughtfully and properly, has nominated important people. Rich people. People who, like him, don't pay taxes. And those people simply won't stand for being treated like peasants. They're unaccustomed to pathetic little nobodies who aren't worth even a single million dollars trying to pry into their affairs. Quite properly they've refused to even acknowledge the pathetic requests for information. You have all the information you need: they're rich. That anyone would even dream of asking a member of the aristocracy for the details of their affairs is a shocking impropriety.
posted by sotonohito at 8:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Orrin Hatch, currently wearing chastity belt, broaches the very relevant and pressing issue of America's epidemic of pornography.
posted by dis_integration at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I cannot wait for Greatest Living American John Lewis to start questioning.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
They cared about the 30 years of media attacks and constant Republican campaign against the Clintons since 1992. That was her unique flaw that no one else in the national conscious has or will have again.
But those 30 years of attacks, starting as First Lady of Arkansas, all boil down to putting an uppity woman in her place. If this was a flaw, you'll find that every successful woman has it. That's why I'm done calling it a flaw.
Yes, it was obvious that she would have this baggage. I didn't support her in the primaries in 2008 or 2016 because I'm opposed to the idea of political dynasties. But when she nevertheless became the candidate, the time for hand-wringing because people would attack her for being a woman was over.
posted by stopgap at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
But those 30 years of attacks, starting as First Lady of Arkansas, all boil down to putting an uppity woman in her place. If this was a flaw, you'll find that every successful woman has it. That's why I'm done calling it a flaw.
Yes, it was obvious that she would have this baggage. I didn't support her in the primaries in 2008 or 2016 because I'm opposed to the idea of political dynasties. But when she nevertheless became the candidate, the time for hand-wringing because people would attack her for being a woman was over.
posted by stopgap at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Orrin Hatch looks like a slightly older Jeff Sessions. This side-by-side view is bumming me out. It's like a hateful doublemint gum commercial.
posted by birdheist at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by birdheist at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Sessions is considering setting up a task force explicitly for "adult obscenity cases." Welcome back, Comstock Laws!
posted by zombieflanders at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
And in even worse news on the "not having millions of people die" front, Trump just met with RFK Jr. "to discuss vaccines."
posted by zachlipton at 8:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
So Orrin Hatch is angling to head up the Ministry of Sex?
posted by valkane at 8:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by valkane at 8:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
> sometimes these threads make me worry for people with suicidal ideation tendencies
I'm trying to remain calm but it's getting harder knowing 2 weeks from now the thing that gave me nonstop panic attacks and no sleep for 3 days straight is really, really fucking real y'all
fuck
Me too, Unicorn. Me too. Especially because I'm one of those folks who--I don't do suicidal ideation normally, me, but I've always held the comfortable truth that come the zombie apocalypse I'm shooting myself in the head and letting everyone else scrabble over the scraps of humanity. If I don't have hope, if I don't see a path forward, even if that path is "turn and run from my country; you can grieve when you your body and family are safe", I don't see the point of going on. I'm an optimistic nihilist at heart; I don't think there's a meaning to being here except the one that I create with my own hands and my own words and my own heart. And if I don't think those things can survive.... well, why go on?
The truth that is helping me, and the truth I am trying to tell the folks around me who are scared, is this:
We need you. We need your voices, we need your calls, we need your hands. Even if all you can contribute is one small thing--a form email, or a dollar to someone who needs it, or a knit hat, or a vote--even if all you can contribute is one small thing, we need you. And the farther we go along this dark road, the more we need you alive to help us. One bright firebrand cannot save us against this darkness; they present too easy targets for the fascists and the enemies of freedom and democracy to attack.
The only thing that can save us is many millions of people doing small things to change public opinion, to refuse to be governed, to resist in whatever small way they can spare. And if you can spare nothing--as many of us cannot--if you are clinging to life with quick-bitten fingernails, because your circumstances are that shitty, well. Maybe they might not be one day. We will need you anyway.
We need you. You are valued. The contributions you make, well, all is not lost; we still have a chance to re-establish our institutions and fix this, but only if we all stand together. And there will be so many battles in the next two years. We need you so much to do small things and keep yourself alive. Please stay and help us here. If you can light a match in the darkness, if many of us light a single match--well, that will keep the lights on better than relying on any one hero or heroine might.
We need you. And I value you, no matter what you bring to the table. Please, stay.
posted by sciatrix at 8:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [52 favorites]
I'm trying to remain calm but it's getting harder knowing 2 weeks from now the thing that gave me nonstop panic attacks and no sleep for 3 days straight is really, really fucking real y'all
fuck
Me too, Unicorn. Me too. Especially because I'm one of those folks who--I don't do suicidal ideation normally, me, but I've always held the comfortable truth that come the zombie apocalypse I'm shooting myself in the head and letting everyone else scrabble over the scraps of humanity. If I don't have hope, if I don't see a path forward, even if that path is "turn and run from my country; you can grieve when you your body and family are safe", I don't see the point of going on. I'm an optimistic nihilist at heart; I don't think there's a meaning to being here except the one that I create with my own hands and my own words and my own heart. And if I don't think those things can survive.... well, why go on?
The truth that is helping me, and the truth I am trying to tell the folks around me who are scared, is this:
We need you. We need your voices, we need your calls, we need your hands. Even if all you can contribute is one small thing--a form email, or a dollar to someone who needs it, or a knit hat, or a vote--even if all you can contribute is one small thing, we need you. And the farther we go along this dark road, the more we need you alive to help us. One bright firebrand cannot save us against this darkness; they present too easy targets for the fascists and the enemies of freedom and democracy to attack.
The only thing that can save us is many millions of people doing small things to change public opinion, to refuse to be governed, to resist in whatever small way they can spare. And if you can spare nothing--as many of us cannot--if you are clinging to life with quick-bitten fingernails, because your circumstances are that shitty, well. Maybe they might not be one day. We will need you anyway.
We need you. You are valued. The contributions you make, well, all is not lost; we still have a chance to re-establish our institutions and fix this, but only if we all stand together. And there will be so many battles in the next two years. We need you so much to do small things and keep yourself alive. Please stay and help us here. If you can light a match in the darkness, if many of us light a single match--well, that will keep the lights on better than relying on any one hero or heroine might.
We need you. And I value you, no matter what you bring to the table. Please, stay.
posted by sciatrix at 8:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [52 favorites]
We need the socialists AND the Republican Lites. We need everyone who believes in democracy. The country will be looted and our system of government destroyed, otherwise. It's all hands on deck, here. Anyone who stays home needs to accept they are partly to blame if our democracy dies. Everyone get out, vote against the looters, and then we can go back to fighting amongst ourselves about policy.
"Anyone who stays home needs to accept they are partly to blame if our democracy dies" isn't a good way to get people off the couch if the democracy to be saved would enact a grand compromise to turn Medicare into block grants and begin a national campaign to break the teachers' unions, but rescue the ACA without a public option. It's important to decide who exactly will be in charge once Trump and his cronies are gone.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Anyone who stays home needs to accept they are partly to blame if our democracy dies" isn't a good way to get people off the couch if the democracy to be saved would enact a grand compromise to turn Medicare into block grants and begin a national campaign to break the teachers' unions, but rescue the ACA without a public option. It's important to decide who exactly will be in charge once Trump and his cronies are gone.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Religious freedom will be a very high priority of mine."
posted by gatorae at 8:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gatorae at 8:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Orrin Hatch is angling to head up the Ministry of Sex?
Except that they just had an entire discussion of the problems caused by bottlenecks and delays in processing DNA evidence without either of them speaking the phrase "rape kit", unless I missed it.
posted by XMLicious at 8:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, I disagree, Rustic. It's actually not important at all. And it's not important at all because having a plan in place means that people can criticize that plan, and the enemy can find weaknesses in it to exploit. Calling people to stand against a threat is easier because not that is easier to win agreement for than yes this.
Why the hell do you think Republicans campaign against an enemy instead of for a policy position? They know this works to energize their supporters. So too should we.
posted by sciatrix at 8:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why the hell do you think Republicans campaign against an enemy instead of for a policy position? They know this works to energize their supporters. So too should we.
posted by sciatrix at 8:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sessions is considering setting up a task force explicitly for "adult obscenity cases." Welcome back, Comstock Laws!
Under President "check out sex tape" who owns the Miss Universe pageant.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:12 AM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
Under President "check out sex tape" who owns the Miss Universe pageant.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:12 AM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
Oh here we go. Leahy has a spine.
posted by Talez at 8:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
if the democracy to be saved would enact a grand compromise to turn Medicare into block grants and enact a national campaign to break the teachers' unions, but rescue the ACA without a public option. It's important to decide who exactly will be in charge once Trump and his cronies are gone.
No it's not. Because the ACA can be passed again, Medicare can be fixed and expanded, teachers unions can be rebuilt, but only if we have a democracy to do it with. Once we are an oligarchy there is no guarantee we will ever get our democracy back. We will have no voice. But bad policy in a democracy can be UNDONE. That's the whole point of democracy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
No it's not. Because the ACA can be passed again, Medicare can be fixed and expanded, teachers unions can be rebuilt, but only if we have a democracy to do it with. Once we are an oligarchy there is no guarantee we will ever get our democracy back. We will have no voice. But bad policy in a democracy can be UNDONE. That's the whole point of democracy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Religious freedom will be a very high priority of mine."
Here I'm sure he thinks he's telling the absolute truth. He just doesn't view any religion other than Christianity (and the right kinds of Christianity at that) as a religion. The others are merely demon inspired cults and certainly our Founding Fathers didn't mean those to be protected!
posted by sotonohito at 8:14 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here I'm sure he thinks he's telling the absolute truth. He just doesn't view any religion other than Christianity (and the right kinds of Christianity at that) as a religion. The others are merely demon inspired cults and certainly our Founding Fathers didn't mean those to be protected!
posted by sotonohito at 8:14 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Religious freedom will be a very high priority of mine."
Remember, despite what their defenders say, "religious freedom" in the current environment is basically a way for conservatives to get away discrimination.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
Remember, despite what their defenders say, "religious freedom" in the current environment is basically a way for conservatives to get away discrimination.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
"Religious freedom will be a very high priority of mine."*
*By which I mean the right to hide behind religion in order to refuse services to people I don't like.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
*By which I mean the right to hide behind religion in order to refuse services to people I don't like.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Religious freedom is code for "fire or refuse services to the gays, and to anyone who looks like they might be the gays, and probably to anyone who deviates from the most mainstream cis/het normative gender presentation".
posted by Frowner at 8:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 8:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Religious freedom will be a very high priority of mine."*
*By which I mean the right to hide behind religion in order to refuse services to people I don't like.
** Or to pay taxes, or whatever the fuck else we come up with next month.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
*By which I mean the right to hide behind religion in order to refuse services to people I don't like.
** Or to pay taxes, or whatever the fuck else we come up with next month.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
@AdamSerwer: Sessions supported a Republican VAWA alternative, rather than the law that actually passed, so is now claiming he did not oppose VAWA
In case you're wondering what the Republican alternative was: "There are three reasons some Republicans are trying to block the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act: Gays, immigrants, and Native Americans."
posted by zombieflanders at 8:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
In case you're wondering what the Republican alternative was: "There are three reasons some Republicans are trying to block the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act: Gays, immigrants, and Native Americans."
posted by zombieflanders at 8:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Basically, if you as a woman - for instance - want to be employable without long hair, without makeup and with pockets, you do not want religious freedom exemptions, because they're basically the slippery slope back to the 1960s in terms of how women are expected to dress and act in public.
posted by Frowner at 8:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 8:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, the Satanic Temple is smiling at all those calls for "religious freedom". That reminds me; I ought to find some time to invest in our local chapter somewhere; they're seeing surges in membership and are trying to use that panicked interest to direct it to local charitable work, so that they have community standing if they need it. It would be nice to see some of the powerful Christian faiths throw themselves behind using the golden tool of "religious freedom" to keep people safe a little more publicly, but--actually, you know what? The sanctuary church movements are genius. Mobilize around morality, folks, in whatever faith you like best. Doesn't have to have a god in it, so long as it counts.
They are handing us tools, you fuckers. If you're going to prize religious freedom over freedom, full stop, or over kindness and morality and doing your goddamn job, then two of us can play at that game. Does your religion prioritize morality? Because I'm going to be shoving my Catholic family to ask themselves what morality is and what defines a "good work" pretty damn hard, and religious MeFites, this is something you can do too.
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
They are handing us tools, you fuckers. If you're going to prize religious freedom over freedom, full stop, or over kindness and morality and doing your goddamn job, then two of us can play at that game. Does your religion prioritize morality? Because I'm going to be shoving my Catholic family to ask themselves what morality is and what defines a "good work" pretty damn hard, and religious MeFites, this is something you can do too.
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sessions: "That does not sound like something I said or intended to say."
Leahy: "Well you did say it."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:19 AM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
Leahy: "Well you did say it."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:19 AM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
I am getting the sinking feeling that we're going to get the whole way through this without anyone asking, "The President can't use instances from previous centuries of rounding people up based on their ethnicity and putting them in camps as justification for doing anything similar today, despite having claimed that he can, right? Right?"
Oh, Patrick Leahy asking about Muslim bans now, so there's a spark of hope.
posted by XMLicious at 8:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh, Patrick Leahy asking about Muslim bans now, so there's a spark of hope.
posted by XMLicious at 8:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
No it's not. Because the ACA can be passed again, Medicare can be fixed and expanded, teachers unions can be rebuilt, but only if we have a democracy to do it with. Once we are an oligarchy there is no guarantee we will ever get our democracy back. We will have no voice. But bad policy in a democracy can be UNDONE. That's the whole point of democracy.
I think you misunderstand. What I meant is that if we Save Democracy by replacing Trump with conservative Democrats who believe the only way to stay in power is to compromise with the Right and, for instance, break unions and social programs, then democracy would be saved but the reason to save it would be gone.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think you misunderstand. What I meant is that if we Save Democracy by replacing Trump with conservative Democrats who believe the only way to stay in power is to compromise with the Right and, for instance, break unions and social programs, then democracy would be saved but the reason to save it would be gone.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:21 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
"You have the right to attend the Baptist church of your choice!"
Someone, and I can't remember where I saw this but it was a brilliant realization and I wish I could credit the person, noted that conservatives have a fundamentally different view of what freedom means than liberals to. I'll paraphrase the core of the argument:
To a conservative freedom means the freedom to pick any activity you want from the approved list. You can go bowling, or hunting, or skiing, or white water rafting, so many choices! But if what you want doesn't fit into a Norman Rockwell painting, if it isn't on the approved list of things you can chose, they see that not as you exercising freedom but as you tearing down society and all that is right and good in the world.
And I think the person who came up with that was right.
Yes, Sessions and his compatriots also think that religious freedom is great cover for abusing minorities. But also, deep in their minds, they really do think of religious freedom as the choice between any of the approved churches and faiths.
Islam is not on the approved list, so being a Muslim is, to them, not a matter of religious freedom but an anarchist effort to destroy the very foundation of America. I'm sure they'd be horrified if you suggested they were violating anyone's religious freedom, and by their definitions they're not.
Because when they say freedom they don't mean what we do.
posted by sotonohito at 8:22 AM on January 10, 2017 [44 favorites]
Someone, and I can't remember where I saw this but it was a brilliant realization and I wish I could credit the person, noted that conservatives have a fundamentally different view of what freedom means than liberals to. I'll paraphrase the core of the argument:
To a conservative freedom means the freedom to pick any activity you want from the approved list. You can go bowling, or hunting, or skiing, or white water rafting, so many choices! But if what you want doesn't fit into a Norman Rockwell painting, if it isn't on the approved list of things you can chose, they see that not as you exercising freedom but as you tearing down society and all that is right and good in the world.
And I think the person who came up with that was right.
Yes, Sessions and his compatriots also think that religious freedom is great cover for abusing minorities. But also, deep in their minds, they really do think of religious freedom as the choice between any of the approved churches and faiths.
Islam is not on the approved list, so being a Muslim is, to them, not a matter of religious freedom but an anarchist effort to destroy the very foundation of America. I'm sure they'd be horrified if you suggested they were violating anyone's religious freedom, and by their definitions they're not.
Because when they say freedom they don't mean what we do.
posted by sotonohito at 8:22 AM on January 10, 2017 [44 favorites]
Sessions: "Many people do have religious views that are inimical to the United States."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:23 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 8:23 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Chuck Grassley is so out of touch he can't even pronounce transgender.
posted by Talez at 8:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
So he's cool with a ban on Muslims in everything but name. Cool, cool.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sessions: "Many people do have religious views that are inimical to the United States."
well we can agree on that, if not the specifics
posted by entropicamericana at 8:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
well we can agree on that, if not the specifics
posted by entropicamericana at 8:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
The dems keep losing downballot power while the Tea Party keeps ascending. We need to be bold about exactly what we want and why we want it in order to get people to vote.
I mean fine, okay, and I'll vote for Bernie or Elizabeth Warren or Keith Ellison or even frickin' Jill Stein if the Democrats ran her...
But let's be clear. The Tea Party has not succeeded by offering a clear vision of what they want to do. They win by saying "at least I'm not that awful guy". And by "awful guy" they mean the BABY-KILLER who wants to STEAL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY and BAN YOUR RELIGION and put you in a FEMA CAMP and TAKE OVER TEXAS.
The Tea Party absolutely wins by running as "not a threat" and "vote against the other guy." They do this by lying. A lot.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean fine, okay, and I'll vote for Bernie or Elizabeth Warren or Keith Ellison or even frickin' Jill Stein if the Democrats ran her...
But let's be clear. The Tea Party has not succeeded by offering a clear vision of what they want to do. They win by saying "at least I'm not that awful guy". And by "awful guy" they mean the BABY-KILLER who wants to STEAL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY and BAN YOUR RELIGION and put you in a FEMA CAMP and TAKE OVER TEXAS.
The Tea Party absolutely wins by running as "not a threat" and "vote against the other guy." They do this by lying. A lot.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Why are we talking about college football now?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017
Thanks Lindsey Graham. 10 minutes and you talk about college football. Fuck you.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lindsey Graham is now using this opportunity to hold forth on college football.
posted by zachlipton at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017
Sessions: "Many people do have religious views that are inimical to the United States."
I couldn't agree more! Oh, you meant...
posted by gatorae at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I couldn't agree more! Oh, you meant...
posted by gatorae at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
And by "awful guy" they mean the BABY-KILLER who wants to STEAL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY and BAN YOUR RELIGION and put you in a FEMA CAMP and TAKE OVER TEXAS.
The Tea Party absolutely wins by running as "not a threat" and "vote against the other guy."
"Ban abortion" and "lower taxes" and "stop letting all those Muslims do their Musliming" are actual things, though.
posted by Etrigan at 8:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Tea Party absolutely wins by running as "not a threat" and "vote against the other guy."
"Ban abortion" and "lower taxes" and "stop letting all those Muslims do their Musliming" are actual things, though.
posted by Etrigan at 8:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
And now that Graham is talking about justice, he's on to a really hardhitting first question: "many people think the only way to get justice in the world is for the Federal Government to administer it. Have you heard such thoughts?"
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jesus, this is fucking embarrassing.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sessions said he would not support a broad-based Muslim ban, but said he would support a process that involved probing people on their religious beliefs to see if they included killing Americans.
posted by zachlipton at 8:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 8:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Never-Trumper Lindsey Graham, folks.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Graham: would you support a law that says Muslims are prohibited from entering the country?
Sessions: no.
Graham: what about a law that says Muslims who are asked what they believe and they say my religion says I have to kill everyone.. can they be banned?
Sessions: that sounds prudent.
Nice strawman. Jesus christ.
posted by gatorae at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Sessions: no.
Graham: what about a law that says Muslims who are asked what they believe and they say my religion says I have to kill everyone.. can they be banned?
Sessions: that sounds prudent.
Nice strawman. Jesus christ.
posted by gatorae at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Wait what? How are religious views something the US can even worry about.
Freedom of Religion swings both ways, it's not just a principle that evangelicals call pull out in order to refuse service to gays but also a principle that should protect Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc.
I mean we all know that there are a variety of people on the Religious Right that would prefer their branch of protestantism to the be official state religion but this right-wing talking point that Islam is incompatible with democracy is such utter bullshit. It's frankly depressing that we have people like Sessions and Flynn who clearly believe it though.
posted by vuron at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Freedom of Religion swings both ways, it's not just a principle that evangelicals call pull out in order to refuse service to gays but also a principle that should protect Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc.
I mean we all know that there are a variety of people on the Religious Right that would prefer their branch of protestantism to the be official state religion but this right-wing talking point that Islam is incompatible with democracy is such utter bullshit. It's frankly depressing that we have people like Sessions and Flynn who clearly believe it though.
posted by vuron at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
And by "awful guy" they mean the BABY-KILLER who wants to STEAL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY
If Democrats said things like this about Republican policy proposals and desires they wouldn't be lying.
posted by Jalliah at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
If Democrats said things like this about Republican policy proposals and desires they wouldn't be lying.
posted by Jalliah at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sessions said he would not support a broad-based Muslim ban, but said he would support a process that involved probing people on their religious beliefs to see if they included killing Americans.
Which Americans?
posted by valkane at 8:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Which Americans?
posted by valkane at 8:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I keep getting the feeling like Graham is trying to do something clever but for the life of me I can't figure out what.
posted by corb at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah Sessions. Fuck the rule of law. Detain them at the President's pleasure.
posted by Talez at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by Talez at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2017
"Ban abortion" and "lower taxes" and "stop letting all those Muslims do their Musliming" are actual things, though.
I didn't say they weren't. The Tea Party is running against imaginary threats. We're running against real ones.
I am saying we all need to vote for whoever is not going to destroy our democracy. It's a moral duty.
And I don't think that's a weak message that can't win. "Save our country" mobilizes Republicans pretty well against an imaginary threat, so I would hope it could mobilize Democrats against a real one, even if those Democrats don't like each other.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I didn't say they weren't. The Tea Party is running against imaginary threats. We're running against real ones.
I am saying we all need to vote for whoever is not going to destroy our democracy. It's a moral duty.
And I don't think that's a weak message that can't win. "Save our country" mobilizes Republicans pretty well against an imaginary threat, so I would hope it could mobilize Democrats against a real one, even if those Democrats don't like each other.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sessions looks like a cleaned up Gollum sitting there
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Some of my best friends are FBI."
LOL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
LOL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sessions just said he has not looked into the Russian hacking other than whats in the media. what.
posted by gatorae at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Graham isn't trying to do anything clever. As Joy Ann Reid just put it:
We'll now be treated to the spectacle of two southern good old boys pontificating on one another's congeniality.
Because for the panel of rather elderly white gentlemen assembled today, the point is not "civil rights" (that old canard)... it's civility.
Am I the only one who who feels like I've gone through the wayback machine, to around 1950?
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
We'll now be treated to the spectacle of two southern good old boys pontificating on one another's congeniality.
Because for the panel of rather elderly white gentlemen assembled today, the point is not "civil rights" (that old canard)... it's civility.
Am I the only one who who feels like I've gone through the wayback machine, to around 1950?
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
Trump and RFK Jr. met today to apparently discuss vaccine/autism link that's been discredited by medical community, per transition
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Graham's smirking good-old-boy thing is really fucking irritating.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:34 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 8:34 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Save our country" mobilizes Republicans pretty well against an imaginary threat, so I would hope it could mobilize Democrats against a real one, even if those Democrats don't like each other.
DID YOU WATCH THE 2016 ELECTION AT ALL?
posted by Talez at 8:34 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
DID YOU WATCH THE 2016 ELECTION AT ALL?
posted by Talez at 8:34 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
How would a law that allows authorities to question people about their religious beliefs in order to get a visa ever pass judicial scrutiny? Is patently unconstitutional and even the most biased jurists would be hard pressed to come up with a rationale to find it constitutional.
I guess it's more grist for the "activist judges" malarkey. Keep passing laws that a clearly unconstitutional (but popular among the base) and you have a built in campaign ad.
posted by vuron at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I guess it's more grist for the "activist judges" malarkey. Keep passing laws that a clearly unconstitutional (but popular among the base) and you have a built in campaign ad.
posted by vuron at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh shit! You magnificent bastard. Graham is sticking it to him on Russian hacking the election, like five seconds after his bizarre softballing. "Do you think you can get briefed on that anytime soon?" Unfortunately he took up too much time on goddamn football and jokes so it's only there for a minute.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jeez, Graham. If you don't want to be called a racist stop being racist. It's not hard.
posted by Talez at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Graham asks another hardhitting question: how does it make you feel when people call you a bigot or a racist? The answer: "It does not feel good" [protesters]
posted by zachlipton at 8:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Graham: "Meanies call us good ol' boys racists. It sure doesn't feel good, does it? Can you elaborate on how mean people are?"
posted by uncleozzy at 8:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 8:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Ban abortion" and "lower taxes" and "stop letting all those Muslims do their Musliming" are actual things, though.
I didn't say they weren't. The Tea Party is running against imaginary threats. We're running against real ones.
Right, but they don't only run as "at least I'm not that other guy" (as some think that Clinton and Kerry did against Trump and Bush). They clearly have an articulated policy agenda beyond "I'm not a Democrat or a RINO".
posted by Etrigan at 8:37 AM on January 10, 2017
I didn't say they weren't. The Tea Party is running against imaginary threats. We're running against real ones.
Right, but they don't only run as "at least I'm not that other guy" (as some think that Clinton and Kerry did against Trump and Bush). They clearly have an articulated policy agenda beyond "I'm not a Democrat or a RINO".
posted by Etrigan at 8:37 AM on January 10, 2017
Want to quit being called a racist? Quit doing racist shit
posted by vuron at 8:37 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by vuron at 8:37 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Interesting new discussion on Slate's Trumpcast with Adam Schiff, Ranking Member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, on "why he has been so vocal about the Russian hacks, what journalism could look like going forward, and what a Democratic resistance looks like."
posted by Rykey at 8:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 8:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
They clearly have an articulated policy agenda beyond "I'm not a Democrat or a RINO".
No they don't. I mean, okay "Cut taxes," I'll give you that, but I wouldn't call that an articulated policy agenda.
DID YOU WATCH THE 2016 ELECTION AT ALL?
I heard a lot of "he can't possibly win" during the 2016 election. Hopefully everyone now sees that's wrong. Hopefully we now all believe the threat is real.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
No they don't. I mean, okay "Cut taxes," I'll give you that, but I wouldn't call that an articulated policy agenda.
DID YOU WATCH THE 2016 ELECTION AT ALL?
I heard a lot of "he can't possibly win" during the 2016 election. Hopefully everyone now sees that's wrong. Hopefully we now all believe the threat is real.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Purposefully running down the clock and throwing not-even-shade-really is not "magnificent bastard" territory. It's "ha ha just a wee bit of a jab old chum" wankery.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Or as Jamelle Bouie puts it: Shorter Lindsay Graham: Poor persecuted reactionary Southern politicians.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
They clearly have an articulated policy agenda beyond "I'm not a Democrat or a RINO".
No they don't. I mean, okay "Cut taxes," I'll give you that, but I wouldn't call that an articulated policy agenda.
We're seeing their policy agenda that they told us they would push and that you were just talking about -- cut taxes, ban abortion, kill the EPA, roll back regulation generally, reinstate the cafeteria-Christian white cis het patriarchy, etc. etc. etc. It's a horrible policy agenda, it's a dumb policy agenda, it's a destructive policy agenda, sure. But it's definitely there, and they're absolutely articulating it and running on it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
No they don't. I mean, okay "Cut taxes," I'll give you that, but I wouldn't call that an articulated policy agenda.
We're seeing their policy agenda that they told us they would push and that you were just talking about -- cut taxes, ban abortion, kill the EPA, roll back regulation generally, reinstate the cafeteria-Christian white cis het patriarchy, etc. etc. etc. It's a horrible policy agenda, it's a dumb policy agenda, it's a destructive policy agenda, sure. But it's definitely there, and they're absolutely articulating it and running on it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
To elaborate, I suppose: I love it when these shitheads try and pass legislation in euphemistic code. I love it when people try to cloak their immoral and hateful actions with cloaks of morality and upright behavior and desperate attempts to associate themselves with ethics, values, and honors. I also love it when they try to cloak their arguments in reality rather than emotion, as when scientists around me try to claim that their misogynistic values are scientific in origin.
I love it when people I disagree with on grounds of bigotry do this because that means that they're ceding me the ground we're playing on: if I can show that their actions are incompatible with their stated values in the minds of listeners, then I have logically forced them to either a) admit that their stated values are not actually that valuable to them, which is very hard when they've ceded to me the ground that those stated values are central to human morality, or b) admit that their actions are mistaken and that they need to change them. I view this kind of thing coming from someone I don't think will listen to me and empathize with me on more direct grounds as a beautiful giant red button saying "Hey, targets here!"
It doesn't always work with the person I'm directly arguing with, because what I am effectively doing is drawing attention to the cognitive dissonance of the positions they take on whatever grounds they value most (which they're telling me, basically, by handing me a justification). And that's super threatening, and that cognitive dissonance does often make people shut down in a panic as they have to question whether they're as good a person as they thought, and it's easier for a lot of people to start claiming that I a hateful terrible person instead. But what it does work real well with is with the people who watch the person I'm arguing with, who tend to go "....huh." and go away and think about what I'm saying as applied to themselves and their own values.
It works for me really well, in the microcosm. I mean it actually, seriously, has worked for me when fighting small battles over whether supporting someone who hates the gays is compatible with viewing oneself as an ally and a good person; when fighting battles about what policy is worth supporting; when fighting about whether it's okay to casually insult millennials; when shutting down pseudoscientific support of bigotry. It's a tactic that works when I have values to target on those grounds of cognitive dissonance, when I have people who will cede to me the ground that bigotry is bad. If they agree with that, I have a really big chink in the armor I can set my wedge to.
I have a lot harder time trying to fight someone who admits openly that he does not give a shit what I think and that he wants to enrich himself and to hell with the rest of me. I'd always, always, always rather fight a Vulcan being a xenophobic shithead at me than a Ferengi that way. Someone who admits that he doesn't give a shit about morality or anything but enriching himself, well, I don't have so many levers there. That's one of the reasons Trump himself freaks me out and terrifies me, because Trump doesn't care about how people see him; so because I don't have ready made tactics for someone like that, well, I can certainly undermine his base and target the morality and values of anyone who supports him. Force anyone who supports him to admit that they don't care about their countrymen. Force them to acknowledge their cognitive dissonance and sit with it. It's uncomfortable as shit, and it might change their actions.
In the aggregate, though, that tactic only works if enough people run it at once. You have to run it with conviction and you have to have allies to wear down all the people around you. And that's a thing Dems have ceded doing for way too fucking long. Ask what it is that Republicans value, what it is that they are arguing based on, and make them justify their moral and ethical rationalizations against those values. Make them justify the consequences of their policy against the values they are claiming to be fighting for, and publicly call them to account for the dissonance. And that goes for us, the citizens, as well as for our elected officials. It goes for anyone who supports him.
posted by sciatrix at 8:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I love it when people I disagree with on grounds of bigotry do this because that means that they're ceding me the ground we're playing on: if I can show that their actions are incompatible with their stated values in the minds of listeners, then I have logically forced them to either a) admit that their stated values are not actually that valuable to them, which is very hard when they've ceded to me the ground that those stated values are central to human morality, or b) admit that their actions are mistaken and that they need to change them. I view this kind of thing coming from someone I don't think will listen to me and empathize with me on more direct grounds as a beautiful giant red button saying "Hey, targets here!"
It doesn't always work with the person I'm directly arguing with, because what I am effectively doing is drawing attention to the cognitive dissonance of the positions they take on whatever grounds they value most (which they're telling me, basically, by handing me a justification). And that's super threatening, and that cognitive dissonance does often make people shut down in a panic as they have to question whether they're as good a person as they thought, and it's easier for a lot of people to start claiming that I a hateful terrible person instead. But what it does work real well with is with the people who watch the person I'm arguing with, who tend to go "....huh." and go away and think about what I'm saying as applied to themselves and their own values.
It works for me really well, in the microcosm. I mean it actually, seriously, has worked for me when fighting small battles over whether supporting someone who hates the gays is compatible with viewing oneself as an ally and a good person; when fighting battles about what policy is worth supporting; when fighting about whether it's okay to casually insult millennials; when shutting down pseudoscientific support of bigotry. It's a tactic that works when I have values to target on those grounds of cognitive dissonance, when I have people who will cede to me the ground that bigotry is bad. If they agree with that, I have a really big chink in the armor I can set my wedge to.
I have a lot harder time trying to fight someone who admits openly that he does not give a shit what I think and that he wants to enrich himself and to hell with the rest of me. I'd always, always, always rather fight a Vulcan being a xenophobic shithead at me than a Ferengi that way. Someone who admits that he doesn't give a shit about morality or anything but enriching himself, well, I don't have so many levers there. That's one of the reasons Trump himself freaks me out and terrifies me, because Trump doesn't care about how people see him; so because I don't have ready made tactics for someone like that, well, I can certainly undermine his base and target the morality and values of anyone who supports him. Force anyone who supports him to admit that they don't care about their countrymen. Force them to acknowledge their cognitive dissonance and sit with it. It's uncomfortable as shit, and it might change their actions.
In the aggregate, though, that tactic only works if enough people run it at once. You have to run it with conviction and you have to have allies to wear down all the people around you. And that's a thing Dems have ceded doing for way too fucking long. Ask what it is that Republicans value, what it is that they are arguing based on, and make them justify their moral and ethical rationalizations against those values. Make them justify the consequences of their policy against the values they are claiming to be fighting for, and publicly call them to account for the dissonance. And that goes for us, the citizens, as well as for our elected officials. It goes for anyone who supports him.
posted by sciatrix at 8:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Last night I had the good fortune to watch Hidden Figures.
The Sessions-Graham exchange was exactly why that movie needs to be watched by everyone.
posted by Talez at 8:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Sessions-Graham exchange was exactly why that movie needs to be watched by everyone.
posted by Talez at 8:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Next time someone tries to talk to you about "moderate" Republicans you can refer them to the sobering kiss-up Susan Collins just gave to that racist piece of garbage and laugh with scorn. There are no "moderate" Republicans. They are all devout members of the cult.
posted by JackFlash at 8:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 8:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
There is pretty much no chance that Sessions won't get confirmed no matter how shitty he is. He's shown he's personally loyal to Trump and reflects the get out of jail free card that Trump no doubt needs when it becomes obvious that he's engaged in all sorts of criminal behavior for decades.
posted by vuron at 8:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by vuron at 8:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Gah, having trouble reaching my senator's office. Their inbox is full and the line to the other office is busy. I have despised that racist little troll for years. When I saw Sessions lob softballs the size of watermelons at Alberto Gonzales during a Judiciary Committee hearing, I knew he was horrible. Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III--named after slaver rebels--is completely unfit to be Attorney General.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Am I the only one who's wondering what happens if this doesn't confirm and he goes back to the Senate and everyone has to still work with him?
posted by corb at 8:46 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:46 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I find it unlikely that an inbox would be full in 2016.
posted by Yowser at 8:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one who's wondering what happens if this doesn't confirm and he goes back to the Senate and everyone has to still work with him?
No, I'm wondering how much fun it will be for me to be cast as the lead of the next Marvel movie. Because I figure the odds on that are like six hundred times better than the odds of Sessions not being confirmed.
posted by Etrigan at 8:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
No, I'm wondering how much fun it will be for me to be cast as the lead of the next Marvel movie. Because I figure the odds on that are like six hundred times better than the odds of Sessions not being confirmed.
posted by Etrigan at 8:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sessions just said with regard to why he opposed retroactivity in legislation that would have eased mandatory life sentencing for crack, that 'most of those cases were plea bargained'. he said it twice.
wtf? who plea bargains for life in prison without parole?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:48 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
wtf? who plea bargains for life in prison without parole?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:48 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
People whose public defenders are working 140 other cases simultaneously?
posted by Etrigan at 8:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's entirely possible that Republican senators will vote to confirm him mainly to avoid having to deal with him as much. I get the impression he's not particularly well liked outside of the good ole boys network. Not Cruz level loathed but still moderately disliked.
It's too bad we can't suggest more sitting Republicans become ambassadors to nations of limited strategic value.
posted by vuron at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2017
It's too bad we can't suggest more sitting Republicans become ambassadors to nations of limited strategic value.
posted by vuron at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2017
Durbin: "That doesn't answer the question about the 800,000 kids who will be left in the lurch."
Sessions: "Yeah, pretty sure it does. They can fuck themselves right back to Mexico or wherever."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sessions: "Yeah, pretty sure it does. They can fuck themselves right back to Mexico or wherever."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, here we go. Black on black voter fraud.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because I figure the odds on that are like six hundred times better than the odds of Sessions not being confirmed.
Well, he can't vote on himself so doesn't it only take two senators to flip?
posted by corb at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, he can't vote on himself so doesn't it only take two senators to flip?
posted by corb at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
So I'm like, so close to calling one of my lizard people using the script from this google doc, but do I call their district office or DC?
Also, what's y'alls rationale for calling, say Cornyn, and what impact does calling have? I mean, "we know your heart" Cornyn... what does he care about "accusations of racism that resulted in his rejection for federal judgeship, he has a long history of civil and human rights opposition. He has staunchly opposed immigration reform, the Voting Rights Act, and efforts to address pay equity for women. In addition, he supported a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, voted against expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation, and criticized a federal law that protects disabled children in the classroom. Jeff Sessions’ values are in direct opposition to an America that upholds liberty and justice for all. "
It almost feels like they'd hear it as an endorsement...
posted by avalonian at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2017
Also, what's y'alls rationale for calling, say Cornyn, and what impact does calling have? I mean, "we know your heart" Cornyn... what does he care about "accusations of racism that resulted in his rejection for federal judgeship, he has a long history of civil and human rights opposition. He has staunchly opposed immigration reform, the Voting Rights Act, and efforts to address pay equity for women. In addition, he supported a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, voted against expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation, and criticized a federal law that protects disabled children in the classroom. Jeff Sessions’ values are in direct opposition to an America that upholds liberty and justice for all. "
It almost feels like they'd hear it as an endorsement...
posted by avalonian at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2017
John Cornyn is kinda dumb, isn't he?
posted by notyou at 8:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 8:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's entirely possible that Republican senators will vote to confirm him mainly to avoid having to deal with him as much.
This is, in a lot of ways, worse than voting for him while being a neo-Confederate bigot and a toady.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:53 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is, in a lot of ways, worse than voting for him while being a neo-Confederate bigot and a toady.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:53 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
We're seeing their policy agenda that they told us they would push and that you were just talking about -- cut taxes, ban abortion, kill the EPA, roll back regulation generally, reinstate the cafeteria-Christian white cis het patriarchy, etc. etc. etc. It's a horrible policy agenda, it's a dumb policy agenda, it's a destructive policy agenda, sure. But it's definitely there, and they're absolutely articulating it and running on it.
I don't know that it's worth arguing about, but I think you'll find there's a lot less consensus on this than it appears. Just like they can't agree right now on how and whether to repeal Obamacare, they won't really be able to agree on the rest of that either. A lot of big businesses like regulations (AKA "Barriers to market entry") and free trade and unlimited immigration. On the other hand, a lot of rank and file Republican voters don't want to get rid of social security etc.
In large part, they're not voting for Republicans to get rid of social programs. They're voting for Republicans because they are scared of Democrats.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know that it's worth arguing about, but I think you'll find there's a lot less consensus on this than it appears. Just like they can't agree right now on how and whether to repeal Obamacare, they won't really be able to agree on the rest of that either. A lot of big businesses like regulations (AKA "Barriers to market entry") and free trade and unlimited immigration. On the other hand, a lot of rank and file Republican voters don't want to get rid of social security etc.
In large part, they're not voting for Republicans to get rid of social programs. They're voting for Republicans because they are scared of Democrats.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've heard that it's generally better to call local offices than the DC office, but I don't know what the rationale is.
For what it's worth, I'm keeping up calls (or emails/faxes depending on how much I feel like I can handle that day) to my most terrible Senator right along with my mostly-good one. I'm not under any illusion he'll listen to a damn thing, but if nothing else, I figure every minute of his staff's time I'm taking up is a minute they're not spending doing his evil bidding.
However, I've stopped reading his responses because they fill me with rage. They go straight into the shredder.
posted by Stacey at 8:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
For what it's worth, I'm keeping up calls (or emails/faxes depending on how much I feel like I can handle that day) to my most terrible Senator right along with my mostly-good one. I'm not under any illusion he'll listen to a damn thing, but if nothing else, I figure every minute of his staff's time I'm taking up is a minute they're not spending doing his evil bidding.
However, I've stopped reading his responses because they fill me with rage. They go straight into the shredder.
posted by Stacey at 8:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
John Cornyn is kinda dumb, isn't he?
"Oh ha ha the woman is always right".
What is this? Is it 1983 again and we're all at friday night at the improv?
posted by Talez at 8:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Oh ha ha the woman is always right".
What is this? Is it 1983 again and we're all at friday night at the improv?
posted by Talez at 8:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sessions knows he's on the wrong side of history concerning mandatory minimum sentencing. Increasingly even some Republicans realize that the get tough on crime bullshit of the 80s and 90s was incredibly stupid.
The reason why some Republicans seem to want to avoid dealing with those laws are a combination of racism, a fear of released felons (because rehabilitation is hardly a focus on the US criminal justice system) and addiction to campaign contributions from for-profit prisons. I guess you can also factor in how various small towns all over red state America have an utter dependence on the local prison complex for jobs.
posted by vuron at 8:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
The reason why some Republicans seem to want to avoid dealing with those laws are a combination of racism, a fear of released felons (because rehabilitation is hardly a focus on the US criminal justice system) and addiction to campaign contributions from for-profit prisons. I guess you can also factor in how various small towns all over red state America have an utter dependence on the local prison complex for jobs.
posted by vuron at 8:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
It looks like Senator Lee, from Utah, is after the next Democrat. I'm really interested in that one, not so much because I know of any specific disagreement, but because I feel I know his actual views more closely, so I can see whether he is wavering more towards or away from his previous positions, as a useful indicator.
posted by corb at 8:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's one of the reasons Trump himself freaks me out and terrifies me, because Trump doesn't care about how people see him; so because I don't have ready made tactics for someone like that, well, I can certainly undermine his base and target the morality and values of anyone who supports him.
Trump cares a whole heck of a lot of how people see him. It's one of his foundational motivations of his existence! He just doesn't care about the types of image that you've talked about. One of the keys is to work at understanding what he does care about and learn what works with people like him.
posted by Jalliah at 8:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Am I missing something on R-Cornyn pushing for increased gun prosecutions?
posted by corb at 8:58 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by corb at 8:58 AM on January 10, 2017
Am I missing something on R-Cornyn pushing for increased gun prosecutions?
For black people and felons.
posted by Talez at 8:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
For black people and felons.
posted by Talez at 8:59 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's the only NRA approved gun control measure: stricter punishment for gun crimes.
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
As someone who is actively engaged in calling Cornyn, half the rationale I'm working with is that we have half a local news story put together from Texan women complaining that the man actively hangs up on his constituents when they call, has a DC voicemail box that doesn't go to a live human at all, does not appear to have any policy for his staffers to record or track constituent concerns, ignores requests for expedition of immigration for at least some people, and generally is really impressively bad at even pretending he gives a shit about Texans' opinions, feelings, or concerns.
We are building indignation. We are encouraging people to call him--or I am, anyway--in part to threaten him and make it clear that that man has no mandate, but also to personalize him to folks who can vote him out, to associate his name with that kind of measured contempt for them. I am helping stoke a personalized, slighted resentment against that man--it's a lot easier to remember to go vote in a midterm if you have a personal target you care about, and "fucking over that slimeball who hung up on me four times" and "that man lied to my face" and "that jackass treated me poorly on the phone and all my friends, I hate him" than it is some nebulous idea about changing the numbers in Congress. Personalize relationships to congress reps, and you encourage that person to go out and vote their opinions. I am building personal stakes in the 2018 election that way.
Plus if we make his staffers' lives hell, then he's got to spend more of his resources finding more, and that's time the man can't spend actively fucking Texas over. If we make his voice mailbox full of politely worded but utterly contempuous messages reminding him he has no mandate, if we comment on every one of his facebook posts calling out his hypocrisy, if we tweet at him every moment that he is a liar and a traitor who hates democracy--well, hell, that makes it just that little bit harder for him to pretend that he stands unopposed in Texas.
posted by sciatrix at 9:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
We are building indignation. We are encouraging people to call him--or I am, anyway--in part to threaten him and make it clear that that man has no mandate, but also to personalize him to folks who can vote him out, to associate his name with that kind of measured contempt for them. I am helping stoke a personalized, slighted resentment against that man--it's a lot easier to remember to go vote in a midterm if you have a personal target you care about, and "fucking over that slimeball who hung up on me four times" and "that man lied to my face" and "that jackass treated me poorly on the phone and all my friends, I hate him" than it is some nebulous idea about changing the numbers in Congress. Personalize relationships to congress reps, and you encourage that person to go out and vote their opinions. I am building personal stakes in the 2018 election that way.
Plus if we make his staffers' lives hell, then he's got to spend more of his resources finding more, and that's time the man can't spend actively fucking Texas over. If we make his voice mailbox full of politely worded but utterly contempuous messages reminding him he has no mandate, if we comment on every one of his facebook posts calling out his hypocrisy, if we tweet at him every moment that he is a liar and a traitor who hates democracy--well, hell, that makes it just that little bit harder for him to pretend that he stands unopposed in Texas.
posted by sciatrix at 9:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
Is anyone going to ask Sessions if grabbing a woman by the pussy is sexual assault?
posted by sotonohito at 9:01 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 9:01 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump is indeed utterly obsessed with his public image. In truth it's probably the aspect of his business "empire" that is most important to him.
The reality is that he's a mediocre at best real estate developer but he's been able to stay in the public eye by being a bigger than life figure for decades.
Yes he's important due to his positional authority right now but he's also obsessed with creating a legacy. Push back against his supposed authority all the time or even better use his obsession with exerting authority to push him and congress into opposition with each other because he's going to hate looking like a figurehead doing whatever Ryan and McConnell want.
posted by vuron at 9:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
The reality is that he's a mediocre at best real estate developer but he's been able to stay in the public eye by being a bigger than life figure for decades.
Yes he's important due to his positional authority right now but he's also obsessed with creating a legacy. Push back against his supposed authority all the time or even better use his obsession with exerting authority to push him and congress into opposition with each other because he's going to hate looking like a figurehead doing whatever Ryan and McConnell want.
posted by vuron at 9:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is anyone going to ask Sessions if grabbing a woman by the pussy is sexual assault?
Well, that would just be rude
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, that would just be rude
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Did this fucker just say the military wasn't trained on the law of war (which specifically forbids torture)?
posted by corb at 9:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Am I missing something on R-Cornyn pushing for increased gun prosecutions?
NRA-endorsed Donald Trump stated outright that police should frisk random* people on the street and take their guns away.
*He also openly supports racial and religious profiling, so we all know "random" means "dark skinned".
posted by dirigibleman at 9:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
NRA-endorsed Donald Trump stated outright that police should frisk random* people on the street and take their guns away.
*He also openly supports racial and religious profiling, so we all know "random" means "dark skinned".
posted by dirigibleman at 9:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
vuron I guess you can also factor in how various small towns all over red state America have an utter dependence on the local prison complex for jobs.
Not just jobs, political clout. Prisoners count as population for the purposes of calculating congressional districts, but of course they don't vote. There's a reason beyond redneck welfare that so many prisons are located out far from cities, and that reason is to drain population from urban congressional districts and add it to the rural areas. Like the 3/5 rule only better since prisoners count as a full person under the law!
posted by sotonohito at 9:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
Not just jobs, political clout. Prisoners count as population for the purposes of calculating congressional districts, but of course they don't vote. There's a reason beyond redneck welfare that so many prisons are located out far from cities, and that reason is to drain population from urban congressional districts and add it to the rural areas. Like the 3/5 rule only better since prisoners count as a full person under the law!
posted by sotonohito at 9:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
Ha-ha, the "lock her up" was so FUNNY!
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sessions just said "lock her up" chants were "sometimes humorously done."
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Whitehouse: "Did you ever chant 'Lock her up'"? Sessions: "I did not. I don't think."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
That means "I totally did but am now wondering if anyone has video of it."
posted by corb at 9:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [74 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [74 favorites]
"I don't remember." (Fake. Ish.)
posted by Yowser at 9:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 9:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sciatrix, all your ideas fascinate me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
(Seriously: you have been hitting it out of the park since the election.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
(Seriously: you have been hitting it out of the park since the election.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
There is pretty much no chance that Sessions won't get confirmed
I expect every last nominee to sail through without a single Republican defection.
Because NeverTrump is not and was never a thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
I expect every last nominee to sail through without a single Republican defection.
Because NeverTrump is not and was never a thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:11 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Next on the list is Lee, then Kloubuchar and Turncoat Cruz. So it should at least be interesting times.
posted by corb at 9:12 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:12 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is pretty much no chance that Sessions won't get confirmed
I expect every last nominee to sail through without a single Republican defection.
Was there ever any chance that they wouldn't?
posted by dis_integration at 9:13 AM on January 10, 2017
I expect every last nominee to sail through without a single Republican defection.
Was there ever any chance that they wouldn't?
posted by dis_integration at 9:13 AM on January 10, 2017
Thanks to everyone who can stand to watch this shitshow. I'm nearly apoplectic reading the summaries; I fear I might damage our home or myself if I put the hearing on.
If Sessions, by some miracle, is blocked, what happens then? Repeat the process with each odious pick indefinitely? I guess a barely functional government has been the norm for the last 6 years...
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
If Sessions, by some miracle, is blocked, what happens then? Repeat the process with each odious pick indefinitely? I guess a barely functional government has been the norm for the last 6 years...
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
T.D. Strange Agree 100%. The Dems had to kill the filibuster for cabinet appointments, I don't begrudge them that at all, so really all they can do is try to ask embarassing questions.
I think they might have been better off just boycotting the whole sordid shitshow, but that'd take spine and the Senate Democrats apparently have none.
Ultimately all their questions mean exactly jack shit. There is only one real question: will 51 Republicans vote for Trump's nominees. And the answer is "no, 52 Republicans will vote for Trump's nominees."
Because Trumpism is Republicanism, and Republicanism is Trumpism. They are one in the same and every single elected Republican knows that.
posted by sotonohito at 9:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think they might have been better off just boycotting the whole sordid shitshow, but that'd take spine and the Senate Democrats apparently have none.
Ultimately all their questions mean exactly jack shit. There is only one real question: will 51 Republicans vote for Trump's nominees. And the answer is "no, 52 Republicans will vote for Trump's nominees."
Because Trumpism is Republicanism, and Republicanism is Trumpism. They are one in the same and every single elected Republican knows that.
posted by sotonohito at 9:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Is anyone going to ask Sessions if grabbing a woman by the pussy is sexual assault?
The Weekly Standard asked Sessions that exact question in the spin room right after the second debate.
He answered "I don't know."
This guy is going to be the nation's highest law and justice official and he doesn't know if grabbing a women's genitals is sexual assault.
posted by JackFlash at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [58 favorites]
The Weekly Standard asked Sessions that exact question in the spin room right after the second debate.
He answered "I don't know."
This guy is going to be the nation's highest law and justice official and he doesn't know if grabbing a women's genitals is sexual assault.
posted by JackFlash at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [58 favorites]
Was there ever any chance that they wouldn't?
About as much as the snowball in James Inhofe's hand on the Senate floor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
About as much as the snowball in James Inhofe's hand on the Senate floor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lee: "A lawyer understands who their client is...In the case of the US Government, the client is the US but serves at the pleasure of the President...How do you understand..how do you see the proper balance of these interests?"
posted by corb at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think it's unfair to state the Dems have no spine when Leahy, Durbin, and Feinstein have been doing all they can to hold his feet to the fire and Booker will be testifying against him. If they didn't bring this up, no one would, and Sessions would still be appointed.
posted by asteria at 9:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by asteria at 9:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Turncoat Cruz
This moniker captures his self-debasement at the altar of Trump soooo well. Turncoat Ted. Yeah.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
This moniker captures his self-debasement at the altar of Trump soooo well. Turncoat Ted. Yeah.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sen Lee: "I have enjoyed working with you the past 6 years and have always found you to be someone who treats his colleagues with utmost respect, and I would be honored if you would allow me to administer a nice blowjob at your convenience." [fake]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:18 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Excommunicated Cardinal In theory Trump would nominate someone else if Sessions were blocked.
But that won't happen. He and the others will be confirmed with 52 votes, plus likely far too many traitor Democrats.
I'd love for every single Trump appointee to go through without any Democratic votes, but I fear they'll cave and most will vote for them because they aren't in full bore opposition mode they're still trying to pretend that it'll all be ok if they act normal.
But I'm the sort of firebrand who advocates the D's skipping this round of bullshit entirely.
posted by sotonohito at 9:19 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
But that won't happen. He and the others will be confirmed with 52 votes, plus likely far too many traitor Democrats.
I'd love for every single Trump appointee to go through without any Democratic votes, but I fear they'll cave and most will vote for them because they aren't in full bore opposition mode they're still trying to pretend that it'll all be ok if they act normal.
But I'm the sort of firebrand who advocates the D's skipping this round of bullshit entirely.
posted by sotonohito at 9:19 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
@realDonaldTrump Your staff have asked me to sing at your inauguration, a simple Internet search would show I think you're a tyrant. Bye💩💩💩💩--@charlottechurch
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 AM on January 10, 2017 [63 favorites]
Sessions is a rat's rat. Racist, corrupt, and with no redeeming qualities that I can see.
The Republicans gave Hillary a hard time during the election for being friends with Senator Byrd, who showed remorse and tried to make amends for his racism in the past, and they're openly associating and throwing their support behind an unrepentant racist.
The hypocrisy is sickening.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
The Republicans gave Hillary a hard time during the election for being friends with Senator Byrd, who showed remorse and tried to make amends for his racism in the past, and they're openly associating and throwing their support behind an unrepentant racist.
The hypocrisy is sickening.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
asteria I'll agree they asked tough questions, but ultimately so what? He'll be confirmed and a horrifying number of Democrats will vote to confirm.
I think what I meant was that the Senate Democrats collectively despite a few laudable exceptions, in addition to showing their usual milquetoast just try to get along side, are also collectively (with no exceptions) failing to realize that politics as usual isn't how to fight here or what America needs.
Trump "won", despite our candidate getting 2.8 million more votes. Trump "won" as a Fascist threat to the very fabric of democracy.
We can't successfully fight that with politics as usual.
That's why I say the Senate Democrats should simply have walked out en masse and held a press conference explaining why. Going along with this bullshit like Trump was a real, normal, president gives the appearance (and almost certainly the votes) of bipartisanship, it dangerously pretends that things are normal and they aren't.
posted by sotonohito at 9:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think what I meant was that the Senate Democrats collectively despite a few laudable exceptions, in addition to showing their usual milquetoast just try to get along side, are also collectively (with no exceptions) failing to realize that politics as usual isn't how to fight here or what America needs.
Trump "won", despite our candidate getting 2.8 million more votes. Trump "won" as a Fascist threat to the very fabric of democracy.
We can't successfully fight that with politics as usual.
That's why I say the Senate Democrats should simply have walked out en masse and held a press conference explaining why. Going along with this bullshit like Trump was a real, normal, president gives the appearance (and almost certainly the votes) of bipartisanship, it dangerously pretends that things are normal and they aren't.
posted by sotonohito at 9:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
NYT: Fox News Settled Sexual Harassment Allegations Against Bill O’Reilly, Documents Show
In the weeks after Roger Ailes was ousted as the chairman of Fox News in July, amid a sexual harassment scandal, company executives secretly struck an agreement with a longtime on-air personality who had come forward with similar accusations about the network’s top host, Bill O’Reilly.posted by zachlipton at 9:26 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
The employee, Juliet Huddy, had said that Mr. O’Reilly pursued a sexual relationship with her in 2011, at a time he exerted significant influence over her career. When she rebuffed his advances, he tried to derail her career, according to a draft of a letter from her lawyers to Fox News that was obtained by The New York Times.
The letter includes allegations that Mr. O’Reilly had called Ms. Huddy repeatedly and that it sometimes sounded like he was masturbating. He invited her to his house on Long Island, tried to kiss her, took her to dinner and the theater, and after asking her to return a key to his hotel room, appeared at the door in his boxer shorts, according to the letter.
Just popping up here to say that if we can only "win" by throwing women and minorities under the bus, well then fuck us, we're done, there's nothing worth winning. Do we have principles or don't we? If we don't, let's be Republicans and be honest about it.
If we stick together we have a chance. If we start pushing "other" people to the back of the candidate bus, then again: fuck us. I am not here for that bullshit.
posted by emjaybee at 9:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [58 favorites]
If we stick together we have a chance. If we start pushing "other" people to the back of the candidate bus, then again: fuck us. I am not here for that bullshit.
posted by emjaybee at 9:29 AM on January 10, 2017 [58 favorites]
Anyone gonna ask Sessions about the AUMF and whether it matters if it gets used for things that Congress explicitly decided to exclude from it when it was being debated in 2001
posted by XMLicious at 9:42 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 9:42 AM on January 10, 2017
Jesus, Sessions' response to the question about prosecuting reporters was fucking chilling. Basically, Q: "Do you believe in a free press where we don't lock reporters up?" A: "LOL not really"
posted by uncleozzy at 9:46 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:46 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I am happy to welcome people to the debate who think that the rights of women and minorities aren't important, and that not everyone deserves health care, and who are willing to fight for those beliefs using the tools of democratic governance and free and fair elections; I just think those people should fight for those Republican-held beliefs under the Republican banner. Compromised, Trump-supporting Republicans in Congress should face a stiff primary challenge from real Republicans who recognize Trump for what he is and are not willing to lick his boots, and even if their positions are odious to me I'd rather fight over policy with opponents who respect the rule of law than abandon all hope of advancing a policy agenda in favor of fighting to keep what's left of our democracy intact. So, yeah, I'd love to see some bland WASPy dudes run on an anti-Trump ticket, both in congressional primary challenges in 2018 and against Donald himself in 2020, but let's encourage the Party Of Old White Men to run them.
posted by contraption at 9:48 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by contraption at 9:48 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sasse blaming lack of civics education on Obama? Fuuuuuuck you.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are there any women working at Fox news that have not been sexually harassed
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Al Franken is taking him on about desegregation lawsuits. Ginger, get the popcorn.
posted by zachlipton at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
A little late on this but I was astounded (though I shouldn't have been), watching Graham question Sessions, to hear him suggest that the reason Democrats are calling him racist is because he's a good old boy from the South. They're not just denying his racism, they're saying "Democrats think all white people are racist, they think all white people from the South are racist," they're trying to make it look like an ad hominem attack. (And of course white people are all too willing to believe this.) I don't think Sessions is racist because he's a good old boy from the South. I think he's racist because he has consistently supported policies that disenfranchise voters and would hurt people of color.
I see a strategy here, in that when I talk about Sessions, I don't say he's a racist, I say that he would be a disaster for voting rights (my words from my call to Sen. Feinstein this morning), which is functionally the same thing. And I think this is what people are talking about when they say not to focus on personalities and outrage, but on policy; "racist" is too open to interpretation, white people see it as an ad hominem attack even if what I mean is policy-based, it's better to just talk about the policy and skip the vagueness altogether. It's harder (not impossible, but harder) to deny a specific legislative and judicial track record than it is to deflect accusations of racism (as much as they hurt Jeff Sessions' feeeeeeeeeeelings), because with the latter you can say you have black friends and have hired black people and many if not most white people will be satisfied because that is how they think about racism.
That's my practical side talking. But I also fucking hate that the culture wars have led us to this point where slippery slimy sleazeball tactics like this work, where you can subtly discredit your critics by insinuating that they're just attacking you because you're white and it WORKS because white people feel sooooooo victimized. Grr. Grrrrrrrrrr.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
I see a strategy here, in that when I talk about Sessions, I don't say he's a racist, I say that he would be a disaster for voting rights (my words from my call to Sen. Feinstein this morning), which is functionally the same thing. And I think this is what people are talking about when they say not to focus on personalities and outrage, but on policy; "racist" is too open to interpretation, white people see it as an ad hominem attack even if what I mean is policy-based, it's better to just talk about the policy and skip the vagueness altogether. It's harder (not impossible, but harder) to deny a specific legislative and judicial track record than it is to deflect accusations of racism (as much as they hurt Jeff Sessions' feeeeeeeeeeelings), because with the latter you can say you have black friends and have hired black people and many if not most white people will be satisfied because that is how they think about racism.
That's my practical side talking. But I also fucking hate that the culture wars have led us to this point where slippery slimy sleazeball tactics like this work, where you can subtly discredit your critics by insinuating that they're just attacking you because you're white and it WORKS because white people feel sooooooo victimized. Grr. Grrrrrrrrrr.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
Franken calmly eviscerating Sessions while he gets visibly ticked off is a delight.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
Totally clotheslined him there, getting Sessions to say he didn't know a lawyer who led a case Sessions claimed to have personally managed.
posted by XMLicious at 10:02 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 10:02 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Humor often involves cruelty, it shouldn't be a surprise that Franken knows how to twist the knife well. It is, but it shouldn't be.
posted by sotonohito at 10:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 10:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
Why not both? Why not say that he's racist because of how he would be a disaster for voting rights?
Because when we (particularly for black and brown values of "we") say the word 'racist', white moderates shut down.
It's mitigation through obfuscating vocabulary, in my mind conceptually similar to harm reduction but also it imposes other external costs -- the full truth doesn't quite get told, white moderates are let off the hook for their own complicity in the hopes that they might join with us to oppose the most racist excesses of Trumpism, and of course we get stuck with the emotional labor of parsing our words ever so carefully to avoid shattering white fragility.
It's far from ideal, but on the other hand there aren't really any ideal options left to us. I dunno.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Because when we (particularly for black and brown values of "we") say the word 'racist', white moderates shut down.
It's mitigation through obfuscating vocabulary, in my mind conceptually similar to harm reduction but also it imposes other external costs -- the full truth doesn't quite get told, white moderates are let off the hook for their own complicity in the hopes that they might join with us to oppose the most racist excesses of Trumpism, and of course we get stuck with the emotional labor of parsing our words ever so carefully to avoid shattering white fragility.
It's far from ideal, but on the other hand there aren't really any ideal options left to us. I dunno.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Here comes Flake lobbying for "victim's rights" groups, which in most cases are people that don't support targets of bigoted harassment, while also targeting marginalized groups.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
the full truth doesn't quite get told, white moderates are let off the hook for their own complicity in the hopes that they might join with us to oppose the most racist excesses of Trumpism, and of course we get stuck with the emotional labor of parsing our words ever so carefully to avoid shattering white fragility.
This is such a perfect encapsulation of the problem; I'm going to quote it going forward.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is such a perfect encapsulation of the problem; I'm going to quote it going forward.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Has anyone mentioned pot once during these hearings?
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thunderclap: Protect America from Trump - right when Trump is inaugurated, Thunderclap will post a one-time message from all participants upholding our promise to fight. I can dig that!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wasn't going to check in on Assange's Reddit AMA because I expected a flood of alt-right bullshit, but I did take a peek and now I'm glad I did, because wow, he is floundering and losing credibility and dodging questions and taking a ton of downvotes. On Reddit, among his core demo of supporters. A taste: apparently r/wikileaks mods claiming to have been in contact with Assange were lying. Unless Assange is lying. If this Assange is Assange.
Basically, get your popcorn.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:22 AM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
Basically, get your popcorn.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:22 AM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
It's mitigation through obfuscating vocabulary, in my mind conceptually similar to harm reduction but also it imposes other external costs -- the full truth doesn't quite get told, white moderates are let off the hook for their own complicity in the hopes that they might join with us to oppose the most racist excesses of Trumpism, and of course we get stuck with the emotional labor of parsing our words ever so carefully to avoid shattering white fragility.
It's far from ideal, but on the other hand there aren't really any ideal options left to us. I dunno.
It's a type of dogwhistling, but from the progressive side. "I say this, it has the deniability it needs to deal with 'those people' but we know what it really means and what is really being said.'
'dogwhistling' as a concept is neutral, it also is can be an effective political communication strategy as has been shown for years from the Right. They're masters at it but in using it as cover for very bad things and doing more horrible things so it's has grown to feel like it's a just a bad thing to do.
It's not. I've used it myself as part of strategy to implement during a long term political fight over environmental policies at a University. Also during a political battle at a national organization around the implementation of some more progressive social policies. Now I didn't realize at the time that it was dogwhistling but it was and it worked quite well.
posted by Jalliah at 10:28 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Judging by their performances today, the so-called NeverTrumpers have pretty much completely lost credibility that they'll act as a brake on Sessions or Trump. Sure, maybe Lee and Sasse at least tried, if only with minimum effort, but the rest of it was basically ass-kissing. Collins gave him ways to weasel out of his bigotry, Graham reaffirmed that those Mean Girl civil rights activists are soooo unfair and lbr totes the real racists while good ol' boys like him and Sessions are the oppressed, and Flake basically led him by the nose. About the only good thing to come out of this was that Sessions might still support bills to crack down on prison rape, but that's not news.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'd love to see some bland WASPy dudes run on an anti-Trump ticket, both in congressional primary challenges in 2018 and against Donald himself in 2020, but let's encourage the Party Of Old White Men to run them.
How'd that work out for us in 2015-2016? Did you see that "here's your new Congress" FPP the other day? Almost entirely bland, WASPy dudes. Trump's serious competition was basically that too and he batted them aside, so now we have banal evil running the House with a lunatic in the Presidency.
I absolutely wouldn't disqualify any candidate because of gender, sex, race, religion, etc., but it's crucial to be realistic and send candidates with reasonable chances of winning to the polls, because we live in an imperfect world.
posted by Candleman at 10:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
How'd that work out for us in 2015-2016? Did you see that "here's your new Congress" FPP the other day? Almost entirely bland, WASPy dudes. Trump's serious competition was basically that too and he batted them aside, so now we have banal evil running the House with a lunatic in the Presidency.
I absolutely wouldn't disqualify any candidate because of gender, sex, race, religion, etc., but it's crucial to be realistic and send candidates with reasonable chances of winning to the polls, because we live in an imperfect world.
posted by Candleman at 10:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
That strategy, the "we live in an imperfect world" concept, is what has kept women and minorities from being considered for, oh, everything, far too often. I'm over the supposition that only the status quo can win. It's not even true.
posted by agregoli at 10:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 10:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Donald Trump wants Republicans to repeal the Affordable Care Act immediately and replace it "shortly thereafter."
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [50 favorites]
Mr. Trump, who seemed unclear about the timing of already scheduled votes in Congress this week, demanded a repeal vote “probably some time next week,” and said “the replace will be very quickly or simultaneously, very shortly thereafter.”This man has no idea what he's doing.
That demand is very likely impossible. Republicans in Congress are nowhere close to agreement on a major health bill that would replace President Obama’s signature domestic achievement. A number of Republicans in the House and Senate have said publicly that they wanted to hold off on voting to eviscerate the health law until a replacement measure could be negotiated.
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [50 favorites]
Yeah, I know that the word "racism" usually shuts white moderates down, but that's because usually their brains usually go to a very specific definition of racism (like, racism is exclusively involves saying racial slurs, unpoliteness, and physical violence), and I think that now might be as good time as any to start getting more useful definitions of racism into the conversation by casually tying the word to a more inclusive definition. (I, too, dunno.)
This is what the "white privilege" discourse was meant to do, in my opinion, back in the '90s; to, er, segregate out the systemic benefits of white supremacy from individual "politeness" or "boorishness" so that white people could consider the effects of white supremacy separately from feeling personally accused of individual racist behavior.
But whatever new phrase or discourse is developed inevitably ends up being demonized by the system of white supremacy because it threatens the basis of white supremacy. They cannot allow a genuine multi-racial, anti-racist coalition to emerge because that will lead to class unity. I mean this not in a super-doctrinaire Marxian sense, but more generally in the sense that it's crucial to the project of free-marketeer drown-government-in-the-bathtub types that a significant bloc of lower- to middle-class whites vote against their own economic interests. Otherwise this class will be electorally isolated, as happened during the New Deal years through to the reinvigoration of racial resentment politics after the Johnson Administration.
I'm not a reductionist; I don't reduce white supremacy to capitalism. But a good deal of very wealthy people are making a good deal of money off of Things The Way They Are, and they will continue to fight to stop change from happening.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is what the "white privilege" discourse was meant to do, in my opinion, back in the '90s; to, er, segregate out the systemic benefits of white supremacy from individual "politeness" or "boorishness" so that white people could consider the effects of white supremacy separately from feeling personally accused of individual racist behavior.
But whatever new phrase or discourse is developed inevitably ends up being demonized by the system of white supremacy because it threatens the basis of white supremacy. They cannot allow a genuine multi-racial, anti-racist coalition to emerge because that will lead to class unity. I mean this not in a super-doctrinaire Marxian sense, but more generally in the sense that it's crucial to the project of free-marketeer drown-government-in-the-bathtub types that a significant bloc of lower- to middle-class whites vote against their own economic interests. Otherwise this class will be electorally isolated, as happened during the New Deal years through to the reinvigoration of racial resentment politics after the Johnson Administration.
I'm not a reductionist; I don't reduce white supremacy to capitalism. But a good deal of very wealthy people are making a good deal of money off of Things The Way They Are, and they will continue to fight to stop change from happening.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
I imagine the question to Sessions about genital-grabbing went down like this:
Q: Senator, do you believe that it is against the law to nonconsentually grab women by their pussies?
A. I don't care--KNOW. I don't know whether it is or not, I meant to say.
posted by angrycat at 10:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Q: Senator, do you believe that it is against the law to nonconsentually grab women by their pussies?
A. I don't care--KNOW. I don't know whether it is or not, I meant to say.
posted by angrycat at 10:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
They are about to start again, if you tuned out for lunch.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:47 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:47 AM on January 10, 2017
This whole "welp, Clinton lost so Women Can't Win" is the metafilter version of that XKCD cartoon where a boy is told "You're bad at math!" and a girl is told "Women are bad at math!"
posted by emjaybee at 10:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:47 AM on January 10, 2017 [56 favorites]
I'd like a list of people who said, "I'd love to vote for a woman, just not this woman" and hold them to their word.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd like a list of people who said, "I'd love to vote for a woman, just not this woman" and hold them to their word.
The Venn diagram between those people and people who will say "or that woman" is a circle.
posted by Etrigan at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Venn diagram between those people and people who will say "or that woman" is a circle.
posted by Etrigan at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat. In a race between Sanders and Warren, I'd pick Warren.
posted by Coventry at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I absolutely wouldn't disqualify any candidate because of gender, sex, race, religion, etc., but it's crucial to be realistic and send candidates with reasonable chances of winning to the polls, because we live in an imperfect world.
I don't disagree, I just think the usual evaluations of which candidates have reasonable chances of winning is overinformed by a model of "likely voters" that continues to leave a massive proportion of the electorate out in the cold, and low turnout becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because the people we need to energize aren't getting energized because we've written them off as "unlikely voters" and fielded candidates that they rightfully see as more of the same. If you don't think that can happen, I invite you to review the media coverage and polling leading up to the presidential election of 2016.
posted by contraption at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2017
I don't disagree, I just think the usual evaluations of which candidates have reasonable chances of winning is overinformed by a model of "likely voters" that continues to leave a massive proportion of the electorate out in the cold, and low turnout becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because the people we need to energize aren't getting energized because we've written them off as "unlikely voters" and fielded candidates that they rightfully see as more of the same. If you don't think that can happen, I invite you to review the media coverage and polling leading up to the presidential election of 2016.
posted by contraption at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2017
Mr. Trump, who seemed unclear about the timing of already scheduled votes in Congress this week, demanded a repeal vote “probably some time next week,” and said “the replace will be very quickly or simultaneously, very shortly thereafter.”
That's -- incredible. This guy wants to completely tear down the structural framework for a sixth of the American economy and rebuild it in six days. It's practically messianic.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
That's -- incredible. This guy wants to completely tear down the structural framework for a sixth of the American economy and rebuild it in six days. It's practically messianic.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Except Donald Trump is no Jesus Christ.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:52 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Agree with what other folks said re: use of the word "racism," but also, it tends to derail into a discussion of what's really in someone's HEART and can we ever really KNOW and what does racism mean REALLY and is it TRULY discrimination based on race or is it just protecting your interests and I am just so so so uninterested in that snorefest. I don't feel I'm appeasing the racists so much as saving myself from a really boring round of rules-lawyering. My question is: Did he or did he not disenfranchise voters. If he did, can you defend that without falling back on your white victimhood because omg somebody used the R-word. That is what I'm interested in.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mr. O’Reilly had called Ms. Huddy repeatedly and that it sometimes sounded like he was masturbating. He invited her to his house on Long Island, tried to kiss her, took her to dinner and the theater, and after asking her to return a key to his hotel room, appeared at the door in his boxer shorts, according to the letter.
SOMEbody's angling for a political appointment.
posted by Rykey at 10:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
SOMEbody's angling for a political appointment.
posted by Rykey at 10:54 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Best and only good thing that ever happened because of Trump's election: Charlotte Church writing "Bye💩💩💩💩."
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Elizabeth Warren doesn't want to be President so maybe y'all can stop using her as the token one woman you'd totally vote for. Please.
posted by lydhre at 10:58 AM on January 10, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 10:58 AM on January 10, 2017 [49 favorites]
There's not exactly a surplus of Democratic women at the top of things who want the office, so people end up doing the Fantasy Football thing with Warren for the slot.
posted by Archelaus at 11:00 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by Archelaus at 11:00 AM on January 10, 2017
To be fair, Trump doesn't want to be President either, so it's maybe not unreasonable to hope.
Kidding, kidding.
posted by Rykey at 11:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kidding, kidding.
posted by Rykey at 11:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
People are going to die because this dumbass has no idea what schedule Congress has already set and thinks we can instantly rewire the industry responsible for 18% of GDP out of nowhere. We are so screwed.
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
That strategy, the "we live in an imperfect world" concept, is what has kept women and minorities from being considered for, oh, everything, far too often. I'm over the supposition that only the status quo can win. It's not even true.
I remember reading a Globe and Mail editorial arguing essentially that now is not the time for human rights with the economy in such a state. This was during the 1990s and one of the most epic economic booms ever.
I remember that editorial every time somebody makes the 'someday but not yet' argument.
posted by srboisvert at 11:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
I remember reading a Globe and Mail editorial arguing essentially that now is not the time for human rights with the economy in such a state. This was during the 1990s and one of the most epic economic booms ever.
I remember that editorial every time somebody makes the 'someday but not yet' argument.
posted by srboisvert at 11:03 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
On the D side, Kloubuchar seemed like she had chops. On the R, I like Nikki Haley.
posted by corb at 11:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:04 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Heads up. Ted Cruz rant ongoing. Mute for sanity.
posted by dis_integration at 11:05 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by dis_integration at 11:05 AM on January 10, 2017
Anti-Dem stump speech has... what to do with the hearing at hand? WTF?!
posted by Rykey at 11:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 11:05 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not even true.
I'm in a long term relationship with a genderqueer, half-ethnic minority. I'd love to be in a world and country and state where someone like them could aspire to run for the Senate and win. We do not have that world. Change is incremental and we're not there yet.
Women can win. Non-Caucasians can win. Gays can win. Non-Christians can win. But all at significantly lower rates of success than their percentage of the population and at an inherent disadvantage if they're competing with a white man. So running the people that have the best chance of overcoming that bias is what's needed.
posted by Candleman at 11:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm in a long term relationship with a genderqueer, half-ethnic minority. I'd love to be in a world and country and state where someone like them could aspire to run for the Senate and win. We do not have that world. Change is incremental and we're not there yet.
Women can win. Non-Caucasians can win. Gays can win. Non-Christians can win. But all at significantly lower rates of success than their percentage of the population and at an inherent disadvantage if they're competing with a white man. So running the people that have the best chance of overcoming that bias is what's needed.
posted by Candleman at 11:06 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Remember when the president-elect said that Cruz's dad killed JFK?
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Cruz: "You know, free speech is a wonderful thing."
Sessions, others: LOL
[real]
posted by Rykey at 11:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sessions, others: LOL
[real]
posted by Rykey at 11:07 AM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is there a question anywhere in our future from Cruz?
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
"so this is how liberty dies, with some good ol' boys having a chuckle." –padme amidala, probably
posted by entropicamericana at 11:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:08 AM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Is there a question anywhere in our future from Cruz?
"Does anyone else wish the puppeteer had lubed up his hand this morning?"
posted by Etrigan at 11:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Does anyone else wish the puppeteer had lubed up his hand this morning?"
posted by Etrigan at 11:09 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cruz isn't wrong that a lot of people find or abandon love for the rule of law according to who is in power, but he's being a smug grandstanding dick about it.
posted by corb at 11:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:10 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
...but he's being a smug grandstanding dick about it
Fixed
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fixed
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:13 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Smug grandstanding dick" has been Cruz's entire MO for, like, ever.
posted by Roommate at 11:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 11:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
I can only hope that Trump will start picking more fights with Republicans when they don't produce results when he claps.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:15 AM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Cruz ranting about Democrats abusing their power for short-term gains...lol. Sounds like someone got his hands on Trump's Mirror.
posted by gatorae at 11:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 11:16 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
If someone built a robot version of Ted Cruz that only shuts up when you punch it in the face they could sell it for a lot of money.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:17 AM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
If Cruz was really the straight shooter he claimed to be, he would have just come out and said "I thought more about it, and I concluded my dad was part of the Kennedy assassination and my wife is ugly and that's why I'm supporting Donald Trump for President."
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
On the R, I like Nikki Haley.
Yes, the incredibly corrupt Nikki "Women don’t care about contraception" Haley is a great choice.
/s
posted by lazaruslong at 11:23 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, the incredibly corrupt Nikki "Women don’t care about contraception" Haley is a great choice.
/s
posted by lazaruslong at 11:23 AM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Take a note, everybody. This is the last time you'll ever hear the words "conflict of interest" come out of Sessions' mouth.
Context: Sessions was asked whether he'd be recusing himself from casting a Senate vote on any of the Cabinet nominations. He replied that he indeed wanted to avoid conflicts of interest, and so he had no intention of casting those votes. (It should be noted that the camera shot I'm seeing does not allow me to see whether Sessions' fingers were crossed).
posted by Rykey at 11:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Context: Sessions was asked whether he'd be recusing himself from casting a Senate vote on any of the Cabinet nominations. He replied that he indeed wanted to avoid conflicts of interest, and so he had no intention of casting those votes. (It should be noted that the camera shot I'm seeing does not allow me to see whether Sessions' fingers were crossed).
posted by Rykey at 11:25 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Confirmation conversion Sessions seems almost entirely reasonable. That's scary.
posted by Talez at 11:26 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by Talez at 11:26 AM on January 10, 2017
Ted Cruz, smashing the irony-meter: "It is unfortunate to hear a member of the Senate impugn a fellow member of this body."
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:27 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:27 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I expect every nominee will be confirmed except maybe Carson. And in that case Trump can just say aw shucks and find some real estate vampire to run HUD.
posted by theodolite at 11:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:30 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Invoking Minority Report ... we're off the rails here.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by uncleozzy at 11:32 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's going to appoint a Kennedy to chair a commission, so that's good, right?
After meeting with President-elect Donald Trump at Trump Tower Tuesday, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. told reporters that Trump has asked him to "chair a commission on vaccination safety and scientific integrity" and that he has accepted.posted by maudlin at 11:33 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Invoking Minority Report ... we're off the rails here.
Pretty good plot summary I guess
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:34 AM on January 10, 2017
Pretty good plot summary I guess
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:34 AM on January 10, 2017
It looks like David Friedman is going to be working out the American Consulate in Jerusalem.
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2017
Axl Rose: Good people don't listen to, acknowledge, nominate or elect people like Senator Jeff Sessions.
(Yes, that Axl Rose.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
(Yes, that Axl Rose.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
A House rules change you didn’t hear much about — and prosecutors won’t like
“Records created, generated, or received by the congressional office of a Member … are exclusively the personal property of the individual Member [emphasis added]… and such Member … has control over such records.”
Who cares whether a congressional office’s budget documents, maintained at taxpayer expense, belong to each individual member, rather than Congress as a body?
Maybe the Justice Department, for one. In investigating allegations of public corruption or misuse of funds, criminal investigators frequently need to subpoena such records.
posted by futz at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
“Records created, generated, or received by the congressional office of a Member … are exclusively the personal property of the individual Member [emphasis added]… and such Member … has control over such records.”
Who cares whether a congressional office’s budget documents, maintained at taxpayer expense, belong to each individual member, rather than Congress as a body?
Maybe the Justice Department, for one. In investigating allegations of public corruption or misuse of funds, criminal investigators frequently need to subpoena such records.
posted by futz at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
After meeting with President-elect Donald Trump at Trump Tower Tuesday, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. told reporters that Trump has asked him to "chair a commission on vaccination safety and scientific integrity" and that he has accepted.
I call chair of the Commission on Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams.
posted by Talez at 11:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
I call chair of the Commission on Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams.
posted by Talez at 11:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Minorities reported things about Sessions; they were ignored.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
What makes piggy little small-minded white supremacists like Sessions think they're so superior anyway? You'd think that a representative of the master race would be attractive and not sound like a moron.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sessions was asked whether he'd be recusing himself from casting a Senate vote on any of the Cabinet nominations. He replied that he indeed wanted to avoid conflicts of interest, and so he had no intention of casting those votes.
Not quite - he said he had no intention of voting on his own confirmation, but in regards to other nominees said "I will follow what the law says."
posted by corb at 11:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not quite - he said he had no intention of voting on his own confirmation, but in regards to other nominees said "I will follow what the law says."
posted by corb at 11:39 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
i would like to be appointed to the commission of magnets: how the fuck do they work
posted by entropicamericana at 11:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:40 AM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Democrats care (or at least profess to care) about a bunch of different things. Republicans only care about power (and money, which in our society is power). Soon we're going to learn what happens when the side that only cares about obtaining and keeping power drops all pretenses and plays for keeps.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sen. Hirono (D-HI): "I'll do my best to be nice to you."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Robert F Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to chair a commission on vaccine safety and he agreed. Has lobbied for vaccine exemptions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2017
Oh, Mazie, don't be nice. Be yourself.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Robert F Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to chair a commission on vaccine safety and he agreed. Has lobbied for vaccine exemptions.
I see Trump is throwing a bone to Stein supporters.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
I see Trump is throwing a bone to Stein supporters.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
So are you suggesting just running white men, because they've got the best chance of overcoming that bias?
I'm suggesting that every political race needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis and that the bias of the voters in each one needs to be a consideration.
posted by Candleman at 11:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm suggesting that every political race needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis and that the bias of the voters in each one needs to be a consideration.
posted by Candleman at 11:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good call, corb, thanks for the correction. Trying to comment and continue to listen at the same time.
posted by Rykey at 11:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 11:43 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nah, Trump is an idiotic anti-vaxxer allllll by himself.
posted by lydhre at 11:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 11:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh no worries, I'm just keeping my ears extra tuned for weasel words.
posted by corb at 11:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:44 AM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
It flatters his sense of intelligence, I think. Being "in the know" about something that is contrary to scientific consensus.
posted by lydhre at 11:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 11:45 AM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Can we just get these stupid fucking white people out of government? Please?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:49 AM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well, he also "knows things no one else does" about hacking, too, so he's full of esoteric information.
posted by Superplin at 11:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Superplin at 11:50 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm suggesting that every political race needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis and that the bias of the voters in each one needs to be a consideration.
Catering to those biases is a great way to ensure progress made against them is minimal. And who knows? Maybe you'll get voters that didn't come out for those previous races when bland, WASPy Jack Johnson ran against bland, WASPy John Jackson. Plus, it's worth remembering that Trump barely squeaked out an electoral victory in a few key counties where the minority vote was suppressed. A few (weighted) coin flips in the other direction and we're talking landslide. We need to push against the weighting, not against the candidacy of women and PoC.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Catering to those biases is a great way to ensure progress made against them is minimal. And who knows? Maybe you'll get voters that didn't come out for those previous races when bland, WASPy Jack Johnson ran against bland, WASPy John Jackson. Plus, it's worth remembering that Trump barely squeaked out an electoral victory in a few key counties where the minority vote was suppressed. A few (weighted) coin flips in the other direction and we're talking landslide. We need to push against the weighting, not against the candidacy of women and PoC.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Antivax policy at the federal level + kicking 20 million people off health insurance = a whole lot of children are going to die.
posted by theodolite at 11:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:51 AM on January 10, 2017 [35 favorites]
Oh no worries, I'm just keeping my ears extra tuned for weasel words.
Weasel words are so 2015. People at the highest reaches of government are allowed to just straight-up lie and then lie about whether they lied now.
posted by Etrigan at 11:53 AM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Weasel words are so 2015. People at the highest reaches of government are allowed to just straight-up lie and then lie about whether they lied now.
posted by Etrigan at 11:53 AM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Elsewhere in Congress:
Comey just gets more and more odious.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
Comey says, re FBI investign Trump/Russia contacts, "I wd never comment on investigations whether open or not in a public forum" EYES EMOJI--@attackerman
Comey just gets more and more odious.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
Toldja.
posted by Etrigan at 11:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:56 AM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sessions being asked about the legal implications of pussy-grabbing now...
posted by Rykey at 12:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 12:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
He says pussy-grabbing is sexual assault. Good times.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
It flatters his sense of intelligence, I think. Being "in the know" about something that is contrary to scientific consensus.
I think it's related to something more personal.
posted by Jalliah at 12:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
> He says pussy-grabbing is sexual assault. Good times.
So... is he going to prosecute a self-confessed serial assaulter?
(Why do I even bother.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
So... is he going to prosecute a self-confessed serial assaulter?
(Why do I even bother.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Why is Leahy just about the only one asking actual questions? Did he draw the short straw?
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I know that the word "racism" usually shuts white moderates down, but that's because usually their brains usually go to a very specific definition of racism (like, racism is exclusively involves saying racial slurs, unpoliteness, and physical violence), and I think that now might be as good time as any to start getting more useful definitions of racism into the conversation by casually tying the word to a more inclusive definition. (I, too, dunno.)
I always make sure to call things out by saying, "That's racist." The response is usually, "I'm not racist." I've had some success getting through to people by pointing out that I didn't call them racist (and if it's someone I know, I'll add, "Because I know you're not."). I said that the thing you said is racist and I don't want you to go around saying racist things since, as you say, you're not racist.
I also point out that if they feel like they're are under attack from someone calling something they said racist, they might have an easier time if they stop getting defensive. "If you just say, 'You're right, that was racist. I'm sorry. I'll do better.' It tends to not be a big deal. If you don't understand why it was racist, now you can ask in good faith instead of arguing."
It's a fair load of emotional labor, especially if you're able to work in that 2nd piece. But, as a white male, I see it as an obligation that comes with my mountain of privilege. I've had some small modicum of success, not as often or as much as I'd like but it's something.
posted by VTX at 12:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
I always make sure to call things out by saying, "That's racist." The response is usually, "I'm not racist." I've had some success getting through to people by pointing out that I didn't call them racist (and if it's someone I know, I'll add, "Because I know you're not."). I said that the thing you said is racist and I don't want you to go around saying racist things since, as you say, you're not racist.
I also point out that if they feel like they're are under attack from someone calling something they said racist, they might have an easier time if they stop getting defensive. "If you just say, 'You're right, that was racist. I'm sorry. I'll do better.' It tends to not be a big deal. If you don't understand why it was racist, now you can ask in good faith instead of arguing."
It's a fair load of emotional labor, especially if you're able to work in that 2nd piece. But, as a white male, I see it as an obligation that comes with my mountain of privilege. I've had some small modicum of success, not as often or as much as I'd like but it's something.
posted by VTX at 12:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
I realized that the reason for me that the Session hearings are so traumatizing is that, unlike say, with Bannon, here we're explicitly presented with how the legislative branch will no longer act as a check on the executive branch.
I mean, it's the difference between knowing we're fucking and knowing we're fucked
posted by angrycat at 12:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
I mean, it's the difference between knowing we're fucking and knowing we're fucked
posted by angrycat at 12:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
A series of studies published previously in the Financial Times indicates that Trump was Was Bailed Out of Bankruptcy by Russia Crime Bosses.
posted by adamvasco at 12:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 12:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
People like Sessions make me feel ashamed to be from the South, which isn't healthy or fair but is something I've been feeling lately. I've been faced with the harsh reality that an upsetting number of us - not all, of course, but enough, and enough in high positions - are Like That, and that's incredibly depressing.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Jay Smooth tactic
Yes, exactly.
In the cesspool of online gaming, I've found that I sometimes need to take the extra step of explaining that I know that they aren't racist (so, I assume this even if I don't think it's true) and they know that they aren't racist, but when we hear hate-speech, even light joking, and don't call it out, you're sending the signal that the group of people your slur refers to aren't human. You're giving them permission to carry out acts of violence against those people. That's what it means you're doing when someone calls you out on your bigotry.
We all know this but I found that I couldn't articulate it when Racism=bad isn't enough. I think that framing it like that makes it less "racist language supports racism" and more "tolerating racist language directly leads to violence and YOU just contributed to it."
posted by VTX at 12:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, exactly.
In the cesspool of online gaming, I've found that I sometimes need to take the extra step of explaining that I know that they aren't racist (so, I assume this even if I don't think it's true) and they know that they aren't racist, but when we hear hate-speech, even light joking, and don't call it out, you're sending the signal that the group of people your slur refers to aren't human. You're giving them permission to carry out acts of violence against those people. That's what it means you're doing when someone calls you out on your bigotry.
We all know this but I found that I couldn't articulate it when Racism=bad isn't enough. I think that framing it like that makes it less "racist language supports racism" and more "tolerating racist language directly leads to violence and YOU just contributed to it."
posted by VTX at 12:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
@chrisgeidner
BREAKING: #SCOTUS halts lower court order for North Carolina to hold special state legislative elections in 2017.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
BREAKING: #SCOTUS halts lower court order for North Carolina to hold special state legislative elections in 2017.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
(In general, I've woken up to my own white privilege and the nastiness in my community a great deal because of this election.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
But I'm the sort of firebrand who advocates the D's skipping this round of bullshit entirely.
Which, well, maybe. But history is full of instances where majorities took advantage of a minority party's tactical absence by locking it out entirely. Maybe a walk-out makes an impact, maybe it just gets you locked-out. I don't see an ideal solution here, or any way to stay pure.
I'm suggesting that every political race needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis ...
It's pointless to speculate on "what kind of candidate should run" in the abstract. It's absolutely pointless to speculate on the strength or weakness of demographic appeal of a candidate without reference to actual candidates in actual particular races. Any more abstract consideration than that is fantasy football at best, at worst, merely a Rorschach test.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which, well, maybe. But history is full of instances where majorities took advantage of a minority party's tactical absence by locking it out entirely. Maybe a walk-out makes an impact, maybe it just gets you locked-out. I don't see an ideal solution here, or any way to stay pure.
I'm suggesting that every political race needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis ...
It's pointless to speculate on "what kind of candidate should run" in the abstract. It's absolutely pointless to speculate on the strength or weakness of demographic appeal of a candidate without reference to actual candidates in actual particular races. Any more abstract consideration than that is fantasy football at best, at worst, merely a Rorschach test.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
BREAKING: #SCOTUS halts lower court order for North Carolina to hold special state legislative elections in 2017.
If you had any hope of SCOTUS fixing our democracy though voting rights reform, time to throw that away.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
If you had any hope of SCOTUS fixing our democracy though voting rights reform, time to throw that away.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
SCOTUS likely stalling for time to get Trump's pick confirmed. Then they'll have 5 votes to overturn the NC redistricting entirely.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
So running the people that have the best chance of overcoming that bias is what's needed.
posted by Candleman
Maybe that's what you need. Don't tell me what I need. What I need is a hell of a lot more women and POC in our government.
posted by agregoli at 12:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Candleman
Maybe that's what you need. Don't tell me what I need. What I need is a hell of a lot more women and POC in our government.
posted by agregoli at 12:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
A lot of people in my community throw back "racism against white people" when I point out that they're being racist.
One of the things that's been hardest for me to explain to my white peers is that being called a "cracker" is not equivalent in any way to being called the N-word and doesn't carry the same historical weight behind it as a slur, so it's disingenuous to act as if they're anywhere near equally bad.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
One of the things that's been hardest for me to explain to my white peers is that being called a "cracker" is not equivalent in any way to being called the N-word and doesn't carry the same historical weight behind it as a slur, so it's disingenuous to act as if they're anywhere near equally bad.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I had my first chance to watch this Sessions hearing during Orrin Hatch's latest round of questioning, and oh my goodness, that was embarrassing. Sen. Hatch spent ten minutes telling the nominee how courageous he was for going through the arduous confirmation process.
And now I need to go sentence-diagram this answer to Sen. Feinstein's question, because I think he left the door open for indefinite detention of American citizens.
posted by Leslie Knope at 12:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
And now I need to go sentence-diagram this answer to Sen. Feinstein's question, because I think he left the door open for indefinite detention of American citizens.
posted by Leslie Knope at 12:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Literally the subtext of every time Sessions says, "I would enforce the law" is "until we change the law, which is about to happen."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
Is this really what's happening?
A stay may be granted by one Justice. Roberts has jurisdiction over the 4th Circuit. I would bet almost anything that is exactly his thinking in granting the stay.
I mean you're not allowed to petition Supreme Court Justices the same way you can your elected officials, right?
Yea, no. That's not how it works. They're partisan Republicans, but insulated from recourse or public opinion.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
A stay may be granted by one Justice. Roberts has jurisdiction over the 4th Circuit. I would bet almost anything that is exactly his thinking in granting the stay.
I mean you're not allowed to petition Supreme Court Justices the same way you can your elected officials, right?
Yea, no. That's not how it works. They're partisan Republicans, but insulated from recourse or public opinion.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Holy shit, are they comparing not judging Muslims to not talking about police violence?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:52 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:52 PM on January 10, 2017
Ah ha ha. The BBC is advertising their new Ring Cycle production with the tagline "Watch the World End. 12.02.2017"
I'm not sure we'll make it to February.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure we'll make it to February.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
A lot of people in my community throw back "racism against white people" when I point out that they're being racist.
One of the things that's been hardest for me to explain to my white peers is that being called a "cracker" is not equivalent in any way to being called the N-word and doesn't carry the same historical weight behind it as a slur, so it's disingenuous to act as if they're anywhere near equally bad.
True, cracker ≠ n-word, but that's still reducing the definition of racism to "people being mean to other people because of race". Which is quite handy if you don't want to rock the boat -- it just means you have to avoid a specific set of overtly racist words & actions and voila you are not a racist!
Unfortunately, as much as I would love it if snarky conversation-enders would stop racism (because oh god how I would tenderly and joyfully feed that precious racism-ending snark all the little snark-pellets it wanted) what is needed is creative, open-ended pedagogy. Probably in the form of non-hostile questions starting from a shared assumption.
As an example: "OK, so we agree that black people and white people should have equal opportunity, right? So... uh, when was the moment at which black people became economically and socially equal to white people?" (hint: hasn't happened yet.) Because most of these folks will agree, "Yeah, slavery bad, sharecropping bad, Jim Crow bad... but then, the 60s! Freedom! And it was like, a long time ago!"
"OK, but think about the resources you had when you were a kid. Had your family been forced to move to a Northern slum to flee Southern peonage? Did your great-grandparents own land, or have union jobs, or graduate high school? etc. How might things be different for you if your family hadn't been allowed to do/have those things?"
I don't think these conversations can be too long, even if the person is engaging in good faith, simply because it does take time to process this shit. But in my mind the way forward is a series of brief, gentle, open-ended conversations that leave the person quietly turning over some question or other in their mind.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
One of the things that's been hardest for me to explain to my white peers is that being called a "cracker" is not equivalent in any way to being called the N-word and doesn't carry the same historical weight behind it as a slur, so it's disingenuous to act as if they're anywhere near equally bad.
True, cracker ≠ n-word, but that's still reducing the definition of racism to "people being mean to other people because of race". Which is quite handy if you don't want to rock the boat -- it just means you have to avoid a specific set of overtly racist words & actions and voila you are not a racist!
Unfortunately, as much as I would love it if snarky conversation-enders would stop racism (because oh god how I would tenderly and joyfully feed that precious racism-ending snark all the little snark-pellets it wanted) what is needed is creative, open-ended pedagogy. Probably in the form of non-hostile questions starting from a shared assumption.
As an example: "OK, so we agree that black people and white people should have equal opportunity, right? So... uh, when was the moment at which black people became economically and socially equal to white people?" (hint: hasn't happened yet.) Because most of these folks will agree, "Yeah, slavery bad, sharecropping bad, Jim Crow bad... but then, the 60s! Freedom! And it was like, a long time ago!"
"OK, but think about the resources you had when you were a kid. Had your family been forced to move to a Northern slum to flee Southern peonage? Did your great-grandparents own land, or have union jobs, or graduate high school? etc. How might things be different for you if your family hadn't been allowed to do/have those things?"
I don't think these conversations can be too long, even if the person is engaging in good faith, simply because it does take time to process this shit. But in my mind the way forward is a series of brief, gentle, open-ended conversations that leave the person quietly turning over some question or other in their mind.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
OH -- and especially if you're white, you can share your story of privilege. Like, "You know what, I realized that my grandfather got help from the government to go to college after he came back from the war, and that let him buy a pretty decent house with his salary plus an FHA loan. After he died, I don't think my grandmother would've been able to raise my dad or afford to send him to college if they hadn't had the house, or the social security survivor benefits. I really think my family would've been a lot worse off without all that support -- and you know what? If we had been black, that wouldn't have been how things worked out at all."
People can't argue with your story.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
People can't argue with your story.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Thanks go out to all the good little conservatives who lectured us for being mean to Roberts and sullying his good name for the totally fair and not at all racist ruling in Shelby v. Holder.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jeff Sessions' Dalliances With Extremists Includes 'Constitutional' Sheriffs and Their Insane Cohort
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
> People can't argue with your story.
They can, they have and they will, all in my personal experience. There are none so blind as those determined not to see. Which isn't to say that it's not worth having these conversations, or that they can't sway people, but I have tried to use examples from my own life (or the life of the person I was talking to) and absolutely been rebuffed with non-arguments like "Oh, that's different!" or "But I worked hard and deserved it!" It's as though admitting that white and/or male privilege might possibly be a thing that exists in this world might cause their entire worldview to crumble and fall, so it has to be denied at all costs.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
They can, they have and they will, all in my personal experience. There are none so blind as those determined not to see. Which isn't to say that it's not worth having these conversations, or that they can't sway people, but I have tried to use examples from my own life (or the life of the person I was talking to) and absolutely been rebuffed with non-arguments like "Oh, that's different!" or "But I worked hard and deserved it!" It's as though admitting that white and/or male privilege might possibly be a thing that exists in this world might cause their entire worldview to crumble and fall, so it has to be denied at all costs.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Saying someone is "racist" is not akin to saying they're guilty of a crime, so why do we place the burden of proof on the accuser? All available evidence shows that most, if not all, people have implicit bias and our country has a clear history of taking explicitly and implicitly racist actions. Failing to actively take steps to correct one's implicit bias (or ensure that legislation/policies have these corrections) is showing a depraved indifference to the disparate effect of one's actions/policies on PoC. I will call every single person racist unless and until they show me their receipts on sustained, long-standing, consistent anti-racism activism.
You want me to think you're not racist? Well, prove it.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
You want me to think you're not racist? Well, prove it.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
> People can't argue with your story.
People are still arguing other people's existence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
People are still arguing other people's existence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
People can't argue with your story.
They can, they have and they will, all in my personal experience.
Because you have no control who lives who dies who tells your story.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
They can, they have and they will, all in my personal experience.
Because you have no control who lives who dies who tells your story.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Make it two, then, because what I saw the closer I looked at Clinton's career is that her "flaws" were largely the result of trying to adapt to decades of unrepenting public ire, shame, and slime that looks suspiciously fucking misogynist in origin.
What I saw the closer I looked at Clinton's career was a foreign policy resume enabled by and contributing to white supremacy, whether it be the tacit endorsement of the coup in Honduras that resulted in the subsequent rise of a right-wing government of dubious legitimacy, the unwavering philosophical commitment to military engagement in the service of regime change in places like Libya or Syria, or her rhetoric about "Iranian aggression": such a record could only be acceptable if founded on an implicit premise that the lives in those places matter less.
It's not the nakedly hateful white supremacy espoused by the Trump, sure. I'm quite certain that advancing white supremacy is not one of her explicitly-held goals, and this type of imperialist white supremacy is more subtly structural, relying as it does on both relentless propagandizing re the USA's legacy and good cover justifications in each case.
It's there, though, and I'd hoped that we could really openly discuss this after the election, and prevent what happened this time from happening again -- that is, the persistent minimization of people's concerns about this, with the counter that there are more important things to worry about, or the outright denial that those concerns are valid at all. Both of those behaviors are rightly pilloried around here in other circumstances, but once it becomes a matter of public policy instead of just how we talk to each other on websites, they seem not to be problems anymore. If telling people to join ranks and get over this, or telling them to get over the willingness to jettison policies most targeted towards helping the poor (and which would make for much better marketing material than the milquetoast technocracy offered by today's Democratic party), is how liberals intend to strengthen the party, then we are both morally and practically fucked.
posted by invitapriore at 1:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
What I saw the closer I looked at Clinton's career was a foreign policy resume enabled by and contributing to white supremacy, whether it be the tacit endorsement of the coup in Honduras that resulted in the subsequent rise of a right-wing government of dubious legitimacy, the unwavering philosophical commitment to military engagement in the service of regime change in places like Libya or Syria, or her rhetoric about "Iranian aggression": such a record could only be acceptable if founded on an implicit premise that the lives in those places matter less.
It's not the nakedly hateful white supremacy espoused by the Trump, sure. I'm quite certain that advancing white supremacy is not one of her explicitly-held goals, and this type of imperialist white supremacy is more subtly structural, relying as it does on both relentless propagandizing re the USA's legacy and good cover justifications in each case.
It's there, though, and I'd hoped that we could really openly discuss this after the election, and prevent what happened this time from happening again -- that is, the persistent minimization of people's concerns about this, with the counter that there are more important things to worry about, or the outright denial that those concerns are valid at all. Both of those behaviors are rightly pilloried around here in other circumstances, but once it becomes a matter of public policy instead of just how we talk to each other on websites, they seem not to be problems anymore. If telling people to join ranks and get over this, or telling them to get over the willingness to jettison policies most targeted towards helping the poor (and which would make for much better marketing material than the milquetoast technocracy offered by today's Democratic party), is how liberals intend to strengthen the party, then we are both morally and practically fucked.
posted by invitapriore at 1:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
People can't argue with your story.
One of the worst fights I ever had with my mom was when I tried to convince her that our family had a lot of privilege. She grew up on a Homestead Act farm, for goodness' sake! Some of my relatives were "Sooners" -- as in people who settled in what was left of Indian Territory (into which Native Americans had been force-marched) before the government opened it up for white settlement anyway. I mean. And the extent to which she has been helped out by relatives and has helped them out in turn... I think yeah my family has benefited from white privilege. But oh my god my mom almost disinherited me for insisting that we had. She thinks she, and all her family, pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. It's insulting of me to imply otherwise.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
One of the worst fights I ever had with my mom was when I tried to convince her that our family had a lot of privilege. She grew up on a Homestead Act farm, for goodness' sake! Some of my relatives were "Sooners" -- as in people who settled in what was left of Indian Territory (into which Native Americans had been force-marched) before the government opened it up for white settlement anyway. I mean. And the extent to which she has been helped out by relatives and has helped them out in turn... I think yeah my family has benefited from white privilege. But oh my god my mom almost disinherited me for insisting that we had. She thinks she, and all her family, pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. It's insulting of me to imply otherwise.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
Also worth noting that the NeverTrumpers didn't question Sessions once on voting rights. Probably because several of them have repeated the racist myths about voter fraud in the past.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Jeff Sessions' Dalliances With Extremists Includes 'Constitutional' Sheriffs
With Sessions as AG, when the Bundy clan or their type have their next land stealing tantrum somewhere with one of these Constitutional Sheriffs (and there's a lot of them)...how does that not fast-track to an end-of-america-as-we-know-it situation of some sort?
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
With Sessions as AG, when the Bundy clan or their type have their next land stealing tantrum somewhere with one of these Constitutional Sheriffs (and there's a lot of them)...how does that not fast-track to an end-of-america-as-we-know-it situation of some sort?
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
OnceUponATime, are you my sister? No, seriously.
posted by yhbc at 1:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 1:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump’s Inauguration Will Have "Soft Sensuality," "Poetic Cadence" [real]
In other inauguration news, Joe Biden will end it in the most Joe Biden-ist way possible: he'll be riding the train back to Delaware.
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
POOL: Talking about actors…how concerned are you that you have enough performers, people to do readings, songs, all of that? Are you satisfied that you have what you need to fill the day, as it were? a typical inauguration day?Oh yeah, the reason they won't have big celebrities is because they don't want them. As for "greatest celebrity in the world," even Kim Kardashian has more than twice as many Twitter followers as Trump.
BARRACK: Overwhelmed. We’re fortunate in that we have the greatest celebrity in the world, which is the president-elect, side by side is the current president…So what we’ve done instead of trying to surround him with what people consider A-listers is we are going to surround him with the soft sensuality of the place. It’s a much more poetic cadence than having a circus-like celebration that’s a coronation. That’s the way this president-elect wanted it. I think it will be contributive. It will be beautiful. The cadence of it is going to be ‘let me get back to work.’
In other inauguration news, Joe Biden will end it in the most Joe Biden-ist way possible: he'll be riding the train back to Delaware.
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
@JustADCohen: Back at it again. Whitehouse: GOP already identifying those career DOJ lawyers who should be demoted bc of the positions they've taken.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Probably in the form of non-hostile questions starting from a shared assumption.
This is a good point. There is a saying among car sales people (and this is going to sound an order of magnitude more sinister than it's intended or practiced), "He who ask the questions, controls the conversation."
It's kind of a rhetorical guideline. By asking questions, the listener is the one reacting to you which means that you can determine the direction the conversation goes. There are limits but by framing the conversation as you asking questions, you have a lot of control over the shape that that conversation takes.
I'm not very good at talking to people that way. I suspect that the trick to getting better is, like most things, practice.
posted by VTX at 1:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is a good point. There is a saying among car sales people (and this is going to sound an order of magnitude more sinister than it's intended or practiced), "He who ask the questions, controls the conversation."
It's kind of a rhetorical guideline. By asking questions, the listener is the one reacting to you which means that you can determine the direction the conversation goes. There are limits but by framing the conversation as you asking questions, you have a lot of control over the shape that that conversation takes.
I'm not very good at talking to people that way. I suspect that the trick to getting better is, like most things, practice.
posted by VTX at 1:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
we are going to surround him with the soft sensuality of the place
Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Barrack also told reporters that the Trumps and Obamas would meet for coffee the morning of the inauguration, and that the families will ride together to the Capitol.
Aw. Isn't that nice?
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aw. Isn't that nice?
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Who is Barrack?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on January 10, 2017
$20, same as in town. Did I do that right?
posted by pxe2000 at 1:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 1:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tom Barrack is a real estate and private equity guy who supported Trump and spoke at the RNC. He's the transition's guy in charge of inauguration planning.
He is also, oddly enough, rather orange.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
He is also, oddly enough, rather orange.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Tom Barrack is the head(?) of the inauguration committee.
posted by peeedro at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sigh. I wasn't trying to give a magic bullet cure for fixing white racism, I was just brainstorming strategies.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
So it'll have a soft, sensual, poetic, "let's-get-this-bullshit-over-with" sort of vibe?
posted by contraption at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by contraption at 1:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, now that there is no longer any reason for an educated person to hold any reverence for the institution of the supreme court, nor the justices residing therein, it's time to say "fuck it."
As soon as there's a Democratic majority in Congress, start impeaching justices.
Roberts, you just killed all of John Marshall's hard work.
posted by ocschwar at 2:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
As soon as there's a Democratic majority in Congress, start impeaching justices.
Roberts, you just killed all of John Marshall's hard work.
posted by ocschwar at 2:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Poll: Sixty-Four Percent Of Voters Think Trump Should Delete His Twitter Account
hmm. If only they voted for the candidate who suggested just that.
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
hmm. If only they voted for the candidate who suggested just that.
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
@AriBerman: Franken: "Do you agree with Trump that millions of fraudulent votes were cast?"
Sessions: "I do believe we regularly have fraud"
This is a lie, and Sessions knows it. The NeverTrumpers know it too, yet while the DOJ prepares to be purged, they sit back and do nothing. The idea that they're going to stop fascism is a farce, and one we shouldn't let anyone get away with trying to handwave anymore.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
Sessions: "I do believe we regularly have fraud"
This is a lie, and Sessions knows it. The NeverTrumpers know it too, yet while the DOJ prepares to be purged, they sit back and do nothing. The idea that they're going to stop fascism is a farce, and one we shouldn't let anyone get away with trying to handwave anymore.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
I strongly disagree with that characterization of Clinton's foreign policy record, invitapriore. I don't know that this is the place to get into the details, but I don't want to leave that there unchallenged.
the tacit endorsement of the coup in Honduras that resulted in the subsequent rise of a right-wing government of dubious legitimacy
She condemned the coup and approved giving refuge to the ousted president's wife and daughter in the American embassy. Had Clinton declared the new government illegitimate in the way you seem to want, the US would have had to cut off all aid to Honduras. Do you really think that would have been helpful to the Honduran people? And after the coup Clinton worked with the deposed president Zelaya to organize elections and a truth and reconciliation commission. "I told him that we should all do everything we could to avoid bloodshed and urged him to participate in the mediation process to be led by Arias. By the end of the conversation, Zelaya was on board. I knew that Micheletti would not accept the mediation if he thought Zelaya had the upper hand, so I wanted to announce the new diplomatic effort alone, without Zelaya by my side. As soon as we finished talking, I asked Tom to take Zelaya into an empty office and have the Operations Center place a call to Arias so the two of them could speak. Meanwhile I hurried down to the State Department press briefing room to make an official announcement." (from Hard Choices) Now it's true that those elections were problematic, but I'm not seeing the "brown people don't matter" story here.
As for the rest: unwavering philosophical commitment to military engagement in the service of regime change in places like Libya or Syria, or her rhetoric about "Iranian aggression": such a record could only be acceptable if founded on an implicit premise that the lives in those places matter less.
I'm not sure that supporting Bashar al Assad shows more respect for the lives of the Syrian people. We've seen exactly how murderous his regime is, now. The uprising against him started in the Arab Spring of 2011, and came from within Syria, not from the US. The question was whether the US was going to do anything to stop him when he started using chemical weapons to defend his regime, or whether that was going to set a precedent -- go ahead and use chemical weapons if you want. No one will stop you. Whatever you think of Assad, the collapse of norms against the use of chemical weapons, and the proliferation of those weapons, would be bad for everyone, including and especially Syrians.
And its hard for me to imagine that calling Iran "aggressive" is going too far when Iran has said that Isreal shouldn't exist. I mean that seems kind of aggressive to me.
I personally find Clinton too interventionist. I think the only certain outcome of war is "lots of dead people" and that while not going to war often has bad outcomes (including lots of dead people), there's no guarantee that going to war will have a good outcome, when you count the human costs of waging it...
But her interventionism is pretty consistently in the service of "American interests" like stopping genocide and promoting democracy. I just don't see any evidence that it's in the service of any kind of racism, or what kind of racist agenda would even have benefited from the interventions she advocated.
Those are serious charges you leveled, and I think they need further justification, or else should not be discussed in this thread.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
the tacit endorsement of the coup in Honduras that resulted in the subsequent rise of a right-wing government of dubious legitimacy
She condemned the coup and approved giving refuge to the ousted president's wife and daughter in the American embassy. Had Clinton declared the new government illegitimate in the way you seem to want, the US would have had to cut off all aid to Honduras. Do you really think that would have been helpful to the Honduran people? And after the coup Clinton worked with the deposed president Zelaya to organize elections and a truth and reconciliation commission. "I told him that we should all do everything we could to avoid bloodshed and urged him to participate in the mediation process to be led by Arias. By the end of the conversation, Zelaya was on board. I knew that Micheletti would not accept the mediation if he thought Zelaya had the upper hand, so I wanted to announce the new diplomatic effort alone, without Zelaya by my side. As soon as we finished talking, I asked Tom to take Zelaya into an empty office and have the Operations Center place a call to Arias so the two of them could speak. Meanwhile I hurried down to the State Department press briefing room to make an official announcement." (from Hard Choices) Now it's true that those elections were problematic, but I'm not seeing the "brown people don't matter" story here.
As for the rest: unwavering philosophical commitment to military engagement in the service of regime change in places like Libya or Syria, or her rhetoric about "Iranian aggression": such a record could only be acceptable if founded on an implicit premise that the lives in those places matter less.
I'm not sure that supporting Bashar al Assad shows more respect for the lives of the Syrian people. We've seen exactly how murderous his regime is, now. The uprising against him started in the Arab Spring of 2011, and came from within Syria, not from the US. The question was whether the US was going to do anything to stop him when he started using chemical weapons to defend his regime, or whether that was going to set a precedent -- go ahead and use chemical weapons if you want. No one will stop you. Whatever you think of Assad, the collapse of norms against the use of chemical weapons, and the proliferation of those weapons, would be bad for everyone, including and especially Syrians.
And its hard for me to imagine that calling Iran "aggressive" is going too far when Iran has said that Isreal shouldn't exist. I mean that seems kind of aggressive to me.
I personally find Clinton too interventionist. I think the only certain outcome of war is "lots of dead people" and that while not going to war often has bad outcomes (including lots of dead people), there's no guarantee that going to war will have a good outcome, when you count the human costs of waging it...
But her interventionism is pretty consistently in the service of "American interests" like stopping genocide and promoting democracy. I just don't see any evidence that it's in the service of any kind of racism, or what kind of racist agenda would even have benefited from the interventions she advocated.
Those are serious charges you leveled, and I think they need further justification, or else should not be discussed in this thread.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
What kind of fucknoodle would call any inauguration soft and sensual?
posted by angrycat at 2:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Speaking of cop worship, in a nice illustration of the Streisand Effect, we all get to see this badass painting the GOP keeps trying to remove from the art competition display in the Capitol.
The image ― a response to the 2014 protests of police brutality in Ferguson, Missouri ― shows a policeman with the head of a boar aiming a gun at a protestor with the head of a wolf. In the background, protestors hold signs reading “Stop Kill—,” “History” and “Racism Kills.” On the right, a black man in a graduation cap appears crucified and holding the scales of justice.
The controversial artwork, made by recent high school graduate David Pulphus, was selected by a committee of artists as part of the annual U.S. Congressional Art Competition in May. The piece responded to the civil unrest brewing in Ferguson, where the competition was held, following the fatal shooting of Michael Brown by a white police officer.
posted by emjaybee at 2:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
The image ― a response to the 2014 protests of police brutality in Ferguson, Missouri ― shows a policeman with the head of a boar aiming a gun at a protestor with the head of a wolf. In the background, protestors hold signs reading “Stop Kill—,” “History” and “Racism Kills.” On the right, a black man in a graduation cap appears crucified and holding the scales of justice.
The controversial artwork, made by recent high school graduate David Pulphus, was selected by a committee of artists as part of the annual U.S. Congressional Art Competition in May. The piece responded to the civil unrest brewing in Ferguson, where the competition was held, following the fatal shooting of Michael Brown by a white police officer.
posted by emjaybee at 2:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
She thinks she, and all her family, pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. It's insulting of me to imply otherwise.
To be fair, a huge amount of political energy has been invested throughout American history in giving out property to white people and telling them they earned it through their own hard work. Once you start prodding at that myth, as Ta-Nehisi Coates pointed out, you have to confront all the theft and blatant discrimination that made such distributions possible, and that's not something you can easily confine to a long-distant past.
posted by holgate at 2:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
To be fair, a huge amount of political energy has been invested throughout American history in giving out property to white people and telling them they earned it through their own hard work. Once you start prodding at that myth, as Ta-Nehisi Coates pointed out, you have to confront all the theft and blatant discrimination that made such distributions possible, and that's not something you can easily confine to a long-distant past.
posted by holgate at 2:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
CNN now reporting that Russian spies claim to have personal and financial information that compromises Donald Trump.
Donald Trump was presented last week with the claims that Russia claims to have information that compromises him, according to CNN report.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
Donald Trump was presented last week with the claims that Russia claims to have information that compromises him, according to CNN report.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
Here's the CNN story: Intel chiefs presented Trump with claims of Russian efforts to compromise him
Classified documents presented last week to President Obama and President-elect Trump included allegations that Russian operatives claim to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump, multiple US officials with direct knowledge of the briefings tell CNN.posted by zachlipton at 2:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
The allegations were presented in a two-page synopsis that was appended to a report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible. The FBI is investigating the credibility and accuracy of these allegations, which are based primarily on information from Russian sources, but has not confirmed many essential details in the memos about Mr. Trump.
Well yeah if Sessions outlaws porn we're probably just gonna have USA Up All Night type soft sensuality left
But if Obamacare is repealed all we have left is sexual healing.
posted by Talez at 2:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
But if Obamacare is repealed all we have left is sexual healing.
posted by Talez at 2:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
CNN now reporting that Russian spies claim to have personal and financial information that compromises Donald Trump
Sadly, I think Trump is in the category where he's so brazen that no information exists that could compromise him for more than 2 weeks.
posted by corb at 2:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sadly, I think Trump is in the category where he's so brazen that no information exists that could compromise him for more than 2 weeks.
posted by corb at 2:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
It appears that the story here is the same one Mother Jones reported on the truly ridiculous day of October 31st, that Halloween when Russia stories were absolutely everywhere and we all lost our damn minds over the stupid Slate article. The MoJo article, A Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump had a lot more to it. These MI6 memos have been all over the place, largely unreported upon because nobody could really confirm them, but their inclusion in the intelligence report would seem to indicate that the intelligence community has at least some general sense of their credibility.
posted by zachlipton at 2:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
CNN now reporting that Russian spies claim to have personal and financial information that compromises Donald Trump
And there's nothing he remembers
And there's nothing to be done.
For a shark is not a shark if
Nobody can prove he's one.
- Bertolt Brecht
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
And there's nothing he remembers
And there's nothing to be done.
For a shark is not a shark if
Nobody can prove he's one.
- Bertolt Brecht
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
As soon as there's a Democratic majority in Congress, start impeaching justices.
The House would have to vote articles of impeachment. The next Democratic controlled House will be approximately never, I'm guessing (combination of the gerrymandering with GOP voter suppression should keep them in control of the House for a long, long time).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:27 PM on January 10, 2017
The House would have to vote articles of impeachment. The next Democratic controlled House will be approximately never, I'm guessing (combination of the gerrymandering with GOP voter suppression should keep them in control of the House for a long, long time).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:27 PM on January 10, 2017
Sadly, I think Trump is in the category where he's so brazen that no information exists that could compromise him for more than 2 weeks.
I mean, sure, but he's giving a press conference in 18 hours. LOL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean, sure, but he's giving a press conference in 18 hours. LOL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
But her interventionism is pretty consistently in the service of "American interests" like stopping genocide and promoting democracy. I just don't see any evidence that it's in the service of any kind of racism, or what kind of racist agenda would even have benefited from the interventions she advocated.
I think your notion of what "American interests" are is incorrect, I think you fail to consider that the practice of interventionism is shaped by which regions we deem acceptable to be intervened in, and what the effects of persistent American military presence in those regions are, and I said myself that I don't think Hillary's foreign policy is at all intended to serve a racist agenda on her part. I'm Latino and that's how I felt about it, along with many of my family and friends. I can't speak for anyone else from other groups who felt her campaign devalued them in this way by dint of their heritage, but I've read their accounts. I don't really feel like humoring your demands for clarification any more than that, considering that the response of "you probably shouldn't talk about this unless you justify it to my exacting standards" is pretty much exactly what I was talking about above.
posted by invitapriore at 2:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think your notion of what "American interests" are is incorrect, I think you fail to consider that the practice of interventionism is shaped by which regions we deem acceptable to be intervened in, and what the effects of persistent American military presence in those regions are, and I said myself that I don't think Hillary's foreign policy is at all intended to serve a racist agenda on her part. I'm Latino and that's how I felt about it, along with many of my family and friends. I can't speak for anyone else from other groups who felt her campaign devalued them in this way by dint of their heritage, but I've read their accounts. I don't really feel like humoring your demands for clarification any more than that, considering that the response of "you probably shouldn't talk about this unless you justify it to my exacting standards" is pretty much exactly what I was talking about above.
posted by invitapriore at 2:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
The two-page synopsis also included allegations that there was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government, according to two national security officials.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
Too late now to do anything about! Hand over the keys to the guy compromised by foreign spies! Sorry, America!
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
So just to be clear, this was something about which the FBI would say nothing, but "there might be emails on Scott Weiner's laptop and we have no idea whether they have anything to do with anything at all" required a red alert freakout.
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [76 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [76 favorites]
Here's the video (11:32) of the CNN report, should you prefer it in that form.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Too late now to do anything about! Hand over the keys to the guy compromised by foreign spies! Sorry, America!
"we have to respect the process." -obama,probably
posted by entropicamericana at 2:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
"we have to respect the process." -obama,
posted by entropicamericana at 2:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
So just to be clear, this was something about which the FBI would say nothing, but "there might be emails on Scott Weiner's laptop and we have no idea whether they have anything to do with anything at all" required a red alert freakout.
Well, it only contributed to the candidate who won the popular election losing the presidency, so there's nothing that needs to be discussed here.
posted by maxsparber at 2:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, it only contributed to the candidate who won the popular election losing the presidency, so there's nothing that needs to be discussed here.
posted by maxsparber at 2:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's an open secret that the NSA possibly records all international phone calls and certainly can record all international phone calls. They would have every reason to record calls between the Trump organisation and Russia. We know that these calls existed - the parties have admitted it. So why was there no official acknowledgement of this? Because Obama would rather maintain an official policy of equivocation than spare us from a potential fascist dictatorship.
See also, not firing (or at least restraining) Comey, not releasing (or at least leaking) Trump's tax returns, ditto for sealed court records, and goodness knows what else. Because that would have been illegal, or set a bad precedent, or made him look bad, I guess.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
See also, not firing (or at least restraining) Comey, not releasing (or at least leaking) Trump's tax returns, ditto for sealed court records, and goodness knows what else. Because that would have been illegal, or set a bad precedent, or made him look bad, I guess.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Seemed to me that Obama was worried that acting more partisan would hurt Clinton's chances in the election. Which might have been true (not that it ended up mattering, but I'm not convinced Trump voters would see any of the moves you're describing as anything other than political games, just like all the post-election revelations have been dismissed).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 2:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, sure, but he's giving a press conference in 18 hours. LOL.
My money's on there being no press conference this week at all. Trump's had no problem lying his ass off about when he's going to make an announcement or hold a presser, and if anything would make him inclined to say "fuck it," it'd be this. Of course, he could just as easily go ahead with it and glibly dismiss any Russia questions, so there's that.
posted by Rykey at 2:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
My money's on there being no press conference this week at all. Trump's had no problem lying his ass off about when he's going to make an announcement or hold a presser, and if anything would make him inclined to say "fuck it," it'd be this. Of course, he could just as easily go ahead with it and glibly dismiss any Russia questions, so there's that.
posted by Rykey at 2:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because that would have been illegal, or set a bad precedent, or made him look bad, I guess.
Yeah, Obama's petty like that. He doesn't care if the country goes fascist as long as he doesn't look bad. And of course him just letting the country go fascist doesn't make him look bad at all.
And what kind of a schmuck cares about laws, right??? Much less precedents and norms.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, Obama's petty like that. He doesn't care if the country goes fascist as long as he doesn't look bad. And of course him just letting the country go fascist doesn't make him look bad at all.
And what kind of a schmuck cares about laws, right??? Much less precedents and norms.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
If I can engage in a moment of fan fiction, I won't be satisfied with @President Trump being voted out of office in four years (assuming there's elections and assuming he loses). No, the only thing I will be satisfied with is him being frogmarched out of the White House before summer by an ashamed looking James Fucking Comey on charges like corruption or espionage or even just dumb-fuckery. The Republicans don't need Trump to enact their agenda (Pence is actually a better Stooge for that) and if the FBI comes for Trump he's not going to have a whole lot of friends in the Republican party. They're falling in line now, but they'd be just as happy to eat their own if some small profit could be sucked from its marrow. No metaphor goes unmixed in my fan fiction.
So yeah, the only time I'd be happy to see Mitch McConell smile is if he's turning on Trump while doing it. Otherwise, whoa, the Mitch smile is nightmare fuel.
But, yeah, the world will be a little safer from nuclear Armageddon and we can get on with the regular process of having our rights stripped away without as much fear of being evaporated by bombs.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
So yeah, the only time I'd be happy to see Mitch McConell smile is if he's turning on Trump while doing it. Otherwise, whoa, the Mitch smile is nightmare fuel.
But, yeah, the world will be a little safer from nuclear Armageddon and we can get on with the regular process of having our rights stripped away without as much fear of being evaporated by bombs.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
@AdamSerwer: Sessions says DoJ lawsuits over unconstitutional policing undermine police depts. This is basically confirmation of no oversight of cops.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 2:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just wanted to say that I learned a few minutes ago that my senator, though a democrat, has not made a public statement on Sessions and is anticipated to vote Yes. WTF. So that gave me the final shove I needed to overcome my anxiety and make the call. I wrote a script and got myself all psyched up. Then the call went to voicemail because "they're experiencing a high volume of calls." Good. Ya better be. I read my script to the answering machine and tried to sound confident. Tomorrow I'll do better.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 3:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 3:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
charges like corruption or espionage or even just dumb-fuckery.
if dumb-fuckery was illegal i'da been in prison since i was 17. m'just sayin...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
if dumb-fuckery was illegal i'da been in prison since i was 17. m'just sayin...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is this... Fiction? Did I drop into the wrong thread and... I mean, this isn't really believable, any of it. I mean, is it? Or am I missing something?
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
posted by From Bklyn at 3:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
posted by From Bklyn at 3:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well yeah if Sessions outlaws porn we're probably just gonna have USA Up All Night type soft sensuality left
Hosted by Gilbert Gottfried, not by Rhonda Shear.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hosted by Gilbert Gottfried, not by Rhonda Shear.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Read the letter Coretta Scott King wrote opposing Sessions’s 1986 federal nomination
BTW, the GOP members of the Judiciary Committee, led by Chuck Grassley, fought to prevent this letter from getting out. It had previously been struck from public record by, you guessed it, Strom Thurmond.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
BTW, the GOP members of the Judiciary Committee, led by Chuck Grassley, fought to prevent this letter from getting out. It had previously been struck from public record by, you guessed it, Strom Thurmond.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
Is this... Fiction? Did I drop into the wrong thread and... I mean, this isn't really believable, any of it. I mean, is it? Or am I missing something?
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
This could have been posted verbatim at any point in the last 1.5 years. The voice of an era.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
This could have been posted verbatim at any point in the last 1.5 years. The voice of an era.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
The good news is we're marching, we're calling, we're organizing and (yes) we're also ranting on the Internet. We're not Bundy family types so there will be no armed revolution from us, but we're doing our best to overcome the wounds of the electoral loss and stand strong in a torrent of horrific bullshit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
The good news is we're marching, we're calling, we're organizing and (yes) we're also ranting on the Internet. We're not Bundy family types so there will be no armed revolution from us, but we're doing our best to overcome the wounds of the electoral loss and stand strong in a torrent of horrific bullshit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
There's no proof yet. There are credible allegations which need to be investigated.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's no proof yet. There are credible allegations which need to be investigated.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
No proof that he owes money to Russian mobsters or that Russia has compromising personal and financial information on him, I mean. Just very credible allegations.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's proof Trump... But no one is doing anything?
It's too fucking late now. No one can do a damn thing except the "NeverTrump" GOP.
And they never, ever will. Never. They don't care. They're HAPPY to bow to Putin because he defeated Hilary, their real enemy. They will literally hand him our nuclear codes to do with as he pleases before doing anything about Trump's treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's too fucking late now. No one can do a damn thing except the "NeverTrump" GOP.
And they never, ever will. Never. They don't care. They're HAPPY to bow to Putin because he defeated Hilary, their real enemy. They will literally hand him our nuclear codes to do with as he pleases before doing anything about Trump's treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pretty sure this is linked above, but...
The classified briefings last week were presented by four of the senior-most US intelligence chiefs -- Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, FBI Director James Comey, CIA Director John Brennan, and NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers.
..."Clapper, Comey, Brennan and The Admiral" sounds like some kind of shitty road movie.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
The classified briefings last week were presented by four of the senior-most US intelligence chiefs -- Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, FBI Director James Comey, CIA Director John Brennan, and NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers.
..."Clapper, Comey, Brennan and The Admiral" sounds like some kind of shitty road movie.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
And I think what people are "doing" is leaking the allegations all over the place. Which will hopefully lead to demands for investigations, which will hopefully lead to Trump out on his ass.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
..."Clapper, Comey, Brennan and The Admiral" sounds like some kind of shitty road movie.
...or the best new name for a Mefi Sock Puppet.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
...or the best new name for a Mefi Sock Puppet.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
..."Clapper, Comey, Brennan and The Admiral" sounds like some kind of shitty road movie.
If you add in the billionaire and his work wife and give them a "three hour tour" sounds like a great way to start fixing things.
posted by Talez at 3:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you add in the billionaire and his work wife and give them a "three hour tour" sounds like a great way to start fixing things.
posted by Talez at 3:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Right, we just need to wait for a thorough investigation to be conducted by the guy who handed Trump the election and the other agencies that will soon be under Trump's complete control. Just hold tight, gotta make sure we've crossed our t's before leaping to any conclusions.
posted by contraption at 3:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by contraption at 3:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
The time to leak all this was before the election, like Comey realized. It's too late.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
[Obama] doesn't care if the country goes fascist as long as he doesn't look bad. And of course him just letting the country go fascist doesn't make him look bad at all.
And what kind of a schmuck cares about laws, right??? Much less precedents and norms.
There's certainly a lot of merit in what you say, but Obama is the President who holds weekly meetings (on Tuesdays, IIRC) to decide which random people overseas get executed via drone. And the whole NSA-tapping-everybody's-phones thing is of doubtful legality anyway, but it has continued and presumably expanded under Obama. So it's not like he hasn't been doing all sorts of illegal stuff, or at best legal in the sense that "if the President does it, it's not illegal". And his White House has leaked like a sieve, with "unnamed administration officials" presenting the official line in the WaPo or NYT pretty much every week.
So he could have done all the things I suggest, and much more, but he chose not to do it. And we all know that norms are out the window now, there literally are no norms for the Executive any longer. So why hasn't he done it? Well, maybe he really does care about not looking bad. Or perhaps people have things on him. But whatever the reason, the USA is heading for a very dark time and I would have thought it was worth pulling out all the stops. But no, apparently not, and history will remember that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
And what kind of a schmuck cares about laws, right??? Much less precedents and norms.
There's certainly a lot of merit in what you say, but Obama is the President who holds weekly meetings (on Tuesdays, IIRC) to decide which random people overseas get executed via drone. And the whole NSA-tapping-everybody's-phones thing is of doubtful legality anyway, but it has continued and presumably expanded under Obama. So it's not like he hasn't been doing all sorts of illegal stuff, or at best legal in the sense that "if the President does it, it's not illegal". And his White House has leaked like a sieve, with "unnamed administration officials" presenting the official line in the WaPo or NYT pretty much every week.
So he could have done all the things I suggest, and much more, but he chose not to do it. And we all know that norms are out the window now, there literally are no norms for the Executive any longer. So why hasn't he done it? Well, maybe he really does care about not looking bad. Or perhaps people have things on him. But whatever the reason, the USA is heading for a very dark time and I would have thought it was worth pulling out all the stops. But no, apparently not, and history will remember that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
If you add in the billionaire and his work wife and give them a "three hour tour" sounds like a great way to start fixing things.
My keyboard now contains ginger ale. Thanks, Talez.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
My keyboard now contains ginger ale. Thanks, Talez.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because Obama would rather maintain an official policy of equivocation than spare us from a potential fascist dictatorship.
Hey, lots of people have imagined lots of ways to blame Obama over the last eight years, why stop now?
posted by octobersurprise at 3:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Hey, lots of people have imagined lots of ways to blame Obama over the last eight years, why stop now?
posted by octobersurprise at 3:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
BuzzFeed These Reports Allege Trump Has Deep Ties To Russia
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
he dossier, which is a collection of memos written over a period of months, includes specific, unverified and potentially unverifiable allegations of contact between Trump aides and Russian operatives, and graphic claims of sexual acts documented by the Russians. CNN reported Tuesday that a two-page synopsis of the report was given to President Barack Obama and Trump.[my bold]Whomp! There it is.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
Ok, now Buzzfeed has just said "fuck it" and gone and published the unverified Trump/Russia memos in light of the CNN report, because these things have been circulating all over the place for months. They caution that the information is unconfirmed and that there are at least a few basic factual errors.
These Reports Allege Trump Has Deep Ties To Russia
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
These Reports Allege Trump Has Deep Ties To Russia
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
No proof that he owes money to Russian mobsters or that Russia has compromising personal and financial information on him, I mean. Just very credible allegations.
Well if he had his tax returns we'd have them too!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well if he had his tax returns we'd have them too!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Confirmation hearings back from break, Franken asking questions about the most recent CNN report.
posted by christopherious at 3:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 3:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey guys, who wants some good news?
*** MONTANA NAZI DEFEAT UPDATE ***
Just heard: local government in Whitefish told Andrew Anglin to fuck himself and rejected his application for the march. We can thank city manager Chuck Stearns for that: at least a single person at some level of government in this country is doing their job. The "James Earl Ray Day Extravaganza" will NOT be happening this month and if any nazis do decide to show up anyway on the 16th, they will receive a healthy state-sanctioned fash-bashing from local law enforcement.
Anglin's claiming that it'll happen next month instead, that he'll submit a competent and complete application the next time, there'll be a big march in February and we'll show them, boo hoo big tears. I'll believe it when I see it.
I expect there'll be more of this garbage soon enough and will update again then. For right now how about you allow yourself to feel a fleeting glint of hope.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [56 favorites]
*** MONTANA NAZI DEFEAT UPDATE ***
Just heard: local government in Whitefish told Andrew Anglin to fuck himself and rejected his application for the march. We can thank city manager Chuck Stearns for that: at least a single person at some level of government in this country is doing their job. The "James Earl Ray Day Extravaganza" will NOT be happening this month and if any nazis do decide to show up anyway on the 16th, they will receive a healthy state-sanctioned fash-bashing from local law enforcement.
Anglin's claiming that it'll happen next month instead, that he'll submit a competent and complete application the next time, there'll be a big march in February and we'll show them, boo hoo big tears. I'll believe it when I see it.
I expect there'll be more of this garbage soon enough and will update again then. For right now how about you allow yourself to feel a fleeting glint of hope.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [56 favorites]
No one can do a damn thing except the "NeverTrump" GOP.
Dude, if you have something you think rank and file NeverTrump GOP organizers or citizens can be doing that would work better, I'm all ears.
If you mean Senators, there's like five of them, and even I don't think they can singlehandedly save the country.
posted by corb at 3:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dude, if you have something you think rank and file NeverTrump GOP organizers or citizens can be doing that would work better, I'm all ears.
If you mean Senators, there's like five of them, and even I don't think they can singlehandedly save the country.
posted by corb at 3:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Barrack: Overwhelmed. We’re fortunate in that we have the greatest celebrity in the world, which is the president-elect;
Get used to tripe like this because our new leader rewards ass kissing big league. We'll be seeing lots of comments about how smart DJT is, how hard working, how amazing he is at doing X Y and Z. I expect to see praises for his stamina, his temperament, and his "hot" wife/daughter. The way to power and riches in Washington DC will be straight through DJT's immense ego and no compliment is too ridiculous for him to swallow.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Get used to tripe like this because our new leader rewards ass kissing big league. We'll be seeing lots of comments about how smart DJT is, how hard working, how amazing he is at doing X Y and Z. I expect to see praises for his stamina, his temperament, and his "hot" wife/daughter. The way to power and riches in Washington DC will be straight through DJT's immense ego and no compliment is too ridiculous for him to swallow.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean, as I'm reading you, Joe, your argument is "Obama is an all-seeing tyrant. He could've stopped Trump if he had wanted to. Therefore, he must not have wanted to." If nothing else, it's an argument beautiful in it's simpleness.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 3:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
They caution that the information is unconfirmed and that there are at least a few basic factual errors.
Personally, I really hope these basic factual errors include the existence Trump golden shower videos.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 3:37 PM on January 10, 2017
Personally, I really hope these basic factual errors include the existence Trump golden shower videos.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 3:37 PM on January 10, 2017
And I think what people are "doing" is leaking the allegations all over the place. Which will hopefully lead to demands for investigations..Investigations of the leaks are more likely than investigations of Trump and/or his cronies.
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
A damning report that's unconfirmed and riddled with errors - yeah, not getting my hopes up just yet but here's hoping I'm proven wrong.
posted by windbox at 3:38 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by windbox at 3:38 PM on January 10, 2017
If you mean Senators, there's like five of them, and even I don't think they can singlehandedly save the country.
They're not even trying, though. They're signaling their willingness to engage in the same fascist shit as every other Republican.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
They're not even trying, though. They're signaling their willingness to engage in the same fascist shit as every other Republican.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Or at the very least, sit back and let it happen, which is just as bad.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zombieflanders at 3:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
A damning report that's unconfirmed and riddled with errors - yeah, not getting my hopes up just yet but here's hoping I'm proven wrong.
CNN wouldn't publish at this point if they didn't have more proof.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:42 PM on January 10, 2017
CNN wouldn't publish at this point if they didn't have more proof.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:42 PM on January 10, 2017
Russian intelligence officers planned to blackmail Donald Trump with knowledge of his alleged "perverted sexual acts," a new report obtained by Buzzfeed alleges.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
so we finally gonna be able to CHECK OUT SEX TAPE?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [48 favorites]
Anyway, I think the best thing for the rank-and-file NeverTrumpers to do is, as Rust Moranis said, "promote, support and vote for democratic candidates and [be] willing to actively choose a little socialism over a lot of fascism."
posted by zombieflanders at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's a funny bit in the just-published dossiers that says something like "Trump has no significant business interests in Russia, but not for lack of trying. Instead he generally hires tons of prostitutes in St. Petersburg."
posted by My Dad at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 3:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Welp, I've got a new sockpuppet now.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 3:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [93 favorites]
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 3:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [93 favorites]
CNN didn't publish the memos. Nobody's been willing to publish the memos until now because they're entirely unverifiable. Buzzfeed decided to go for it on the basis of the CNN report, but it's still far from clear whether anybody has assessed these conclusions to be credible. That said, if you aren't reading this stuff, you're missing out, because PDFs like this just don't come along very often.
Or as Olbermann just put it: "Well, look at the bright side. Thanks to @buzzfeed at least we know what Trump means by wanting a "soft sensuality" for the inaugural."
posted by zachlipton at 3:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
Or as Olbermann just put it: "Well, look at the bright side. Thanks to @buzzfeed at least we know what Trump means by wanting a "soft sensuality" for the inaugural."
posted by zachlipton at 3:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
A new Quinnipiac Pol just released shows DJT's ratings are very slowly but very surely suffering in every aspect:
The measures of Trump's personal qualities all are more negative than they were in a November 22 Quinnipiac University poll:posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
53 - 39 percent that he is not honest, compared to 52 - 42 percent November 22;
49 - 44 percent that he has good leadership skills, compared to 56 - 38 percent;
52 - 44 percent that he does not care about average Americans, compared to 51 - 45 percent who said he did care;
62 - 33 percent that he is not level-headed, compared to 57 - 38 percent;
71 - 25 percent that he is a strong person, compared to 74 - 23 percent;
68 - 27 percent that he is intelligent, compared to 74 - 21 percent.
so we finally gonna be able to CHECK OUT SEX TAPE?
So Trump's Mirror was a 2-way mirror with a Russian camera on the other side apparently!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
So Trump's Mirror was a 2-way mirror with a Russian camera on the other side apparently!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
so we finally gonna be able to CHECK OUT SEX TAPE?
Seeing that it claims he hired prostitutes to urinate on a bed that the Obamas had previously slept on, I hope not.
This how now gone bananas beyond my ability to process.
posted by maxsparber at 3:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Seeing that it claims he hired prostitutes to urinate on a bed that the Obamas had previously slept on, I hope not.
This how now gone bananas beyond my ability to process.
posted by maxsparber at 3:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
I absolutely wouldn't disqualify any candidate because of gender, sex, race, religion, etc., but it's crucial to be realistic and send candidates with reasonable chances of winning to the polls, because we live in an imperfect world.
People who think this kind of stuff should go read the thread when Obama gave the keynote at the DNC in 2004. People thought maybe he could run as a VP candidate in 2012! And probably thought they were being optimists.
posted by zutalors! at 3:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Looking forward to Meryl Streep's review of THIS performance.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 3:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 3:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I seriously don't even know what to do with a headline like "Report: Russia Has Trump Golden Showers Blackmail" and I'm pretty much willing to buy into any sort of "we live in a simulation gone amok" sort of argument you care to make at this point.
posted by feloniousmonk at 3:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 3:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
Buzzfeed decided to go for it on the basis of the CNN report, but it's still far from clear whether anybody has assessed these conclusions to be credible.
But according to CNN, the intelligence community had concluded that there was enough there to brief POTUS and PEOTUS on it.
posted by stopgap at 3:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
But according to CNN, the intelligence community had concluded that there was enough there to brief POTUS and PEOTUS on it.
posted by stopgap at 3:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
From Russia With Love.
posted by valkane at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Juiia Ioffe just tweeted that she was approached with the Buzzfeed story, which makes me think that she didn't find it credible.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
So did someone really have to sit down with President Obama and explain that the FBI is assessing a report that Trump defiled a hotel bed the President once slept on in Moscow? Because that person should receive some kind of medal or award or something.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
I'm pretty much willing to buy into any sort of "we live in a simulation gone amok" sort of argument you care to make at this point.
My theory is that we've reached the point in Sim City where the player gets bored with their city and just starts sending disaster after disaster at it to see what happens.
posted by contraption at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
My theory is that we've reached the point in Sim City where the player gets bored with their city and just starts sending disaster after disaster at it to see what happens.
posted by contraption at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
PEEOTUS?
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [62 favorites]
I'm still highly suspicious that it's all legit and going to catch on as actual breaking news. I said it before, the most accurate thing he's ever said is that he can shoot someone and no one would care.
Watch no one care. Worst case scenario, it gets eaten up by the left for 6-12 hours before it gets reported as not credible or verifiable and dismissed as non-pertinent, then ultimately thrown into the fire of Trumpist laughing over "fake news" and "crooked MSM getting desperate this time".
posted by windbox at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Watch no one care. Worst case scenario, it gets eaten up by the left for 6-12 hours before it gets reported as not credible or verifiable and dismissed as non-pertinent, then ultimately thrown into the fire of Trumpist laughing over "fake news" and "crooked MSM getting desperate this time".
posted by windbox at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also, WaterSportsGate is totally going to distract from all the hearings for all the terrible, terrible cabinet picks, right?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
The "perverted sex act" referred to in the memos was:
1) Book suite formerly used by Barack Obama;
2) Hire prostitutes;
3) Get prostitutes to pee all over the bed.
I think the most interesting (and potentially verifiable) bit of this is the last two pages, which say that someone called Michael Cohen (elsewhere identified as Trump's lawyer) met with KGB representatives in Prague to discuss payments for European hacking teams "recruited under duress".
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
1) Book suite formerly used by Barack Obama;
2) Hire prostitutes;
3) Get prostitutes to pee all over the bed.
I think the most interesting (and potentially verifiable) bit of this is the last two pages, which say that someone called Michael Cohen (elsewhere identified as Trump's lawyer) met with KGB representatives in Prague to discuss payments for European hacking teams "recruited under duress".
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is your man-baby a bed-wetter? Try this new brand of mattress, Kompromat!
posted by Quagkapi at 3:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Quagkapi at 3:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
The ride from the White House to the Capitol on Inauguration Day is going to be like 10x more awkward now.--@nycsouthpaw
"... dude, you peed on my bed?"
What's more important though are the allegations that the campaign traded the Wikileaks info for agreeing never to mention Ukraine and threatening to cut off the Baltic states from NATO.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
I'm pretty much willing to buy into any sort of "we live in a simulation gone amok" sort of argument you care to make at this point.
Been there for a while. Frankly you guys and the other people I care about are the only good parts of this simulation.
This kompromat is weak, though. I want to see info on those big fat loans from Russian banks that he still owes them for. I want those financials to see the light of day.
posted by emjaybee at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Been there for a while. Frankly you guys and the other people I care about are the only good parts of this simulation.
This kompromat is weak, though. I want to see info on those big fat loans from Russian banks that he still owes them for. I want those financials to see the light of day.
posted by emjaybee at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Juiia Ioffe just tweeted that she was approached with the Buzzfeed story, which makes me think that she didn't find it credible.
Yeah, I work with someone who covers Russia and RuNet (and who also works with Ioffe from time to time), and s/he mentioned the key phrase in the dossier is "a person who has claimed to be a former British intelligence official".
Yet more non-news. Trump is not going away. He's here to stay until at least 2020 (if the planet lasts that long).
posted by My Dad at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I work with someone who covers Russia and RuNet (and who also works with Ioffe from time to time), and s/he mentioned the key phrase in the dossier is "a person who has claimed to be a former British intelligence official".
Yet more non-news. Trump is not going away. He's here to stay until at least 2020 (if the planet lasts that long).
posted by My Dad at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
At this point he could pee on the flag and people would still vote for him. America wept.
posted by valkane at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's more important though are the allegations that the campaign traded the Wikileaks info for agreeing never to mention Ukraine and threatening to cut off the Baltic states from NATO.
Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing here.
posted by stopgap at 4:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing here.
posted by stopgap at 4:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Now watch watersports start polling super well among his base.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yet more non-news.
Again, MSM has had this for months. They published today. it's news.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Again, MSM has had this for months. They published today. it's news.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reads like a poor straight-to-video spy film prop.
Who'd write this, for whom, and why like this? It's full of silly details and lacking in anything verifiable. Nothing there that hasn't been gossiped about. Looks like no intelligence report I've ever seen.
posted by Devonian at 4:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Who'd write this, for whom, and why like this? It's full of silly details and lacking in anything verifiable. Nothing there that hasn't been gossiped about. Looks like no intelligence report I've ever seen.
posted by Devonian at 4:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
it was just a Locker-Room Shower
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Remember the golden rule of negotiating: He who has the gold makes the rules. [real, 2013]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Remember the golden rule of negotiating: He who has the gold makes the rules. [real, 2013]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
At this point he could pee on the flag and people would still vote for him. America wept.
He doesn't do his own peeing. He outsources it.
posted by maxsparber at 4:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
He doesn't do his own peeing. He outsources it.
posted by maxsparber at 4:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Is it ironic that I am wetting myself laughing over Donald Trump Golden Shower rumors?
posted by hilaryjade at 4:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by hilaryjade at 4:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
CNN wouldn't publish at this point if they didn't have more proof.
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but either way my response is "Of course they would." Still, I'm rooting for the sex tape because I deserve to see a Russian sex worker of ambigious gender micturate on Donald Trump before he kills us all.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but either way my response is "Of course they would." Still, I'm rooting for the sex tape because I deserve to see a Russian sex worker of ambigious gender micturate on Donald Trump before he kills us all.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you are reading the #Russians dossier and don't know what to believe anymore—now you know what it's like to report on Russia.
posted by My Dad at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
If you mean Senators, there's like five of them, and even I don't think they can singlehandedly save the country.
I dont think we've seen evidence of there being even one, and today's hearings pretty much confirmed that.
Anyway, I think the best thing for the rank-and-file NeverTrumpers to do is, as Rust Moranis said, "promote, support and vote for democratic candidates and [be] willing to actively choose a little socialism over a lot of fascism."
Pretty much this. 3-4 Senators really could reshape the entire course of this administration. All they'd have to do would be vote with Democrats maybe 30% of the time, like our Conservadems routinely do the other direction. But that's too much to ask to save America, I know.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
I dont think we've seen evidence of there being even one, and today's hearings pretty much confirmed that.
Anyway, I think the best thing for the rank-and-file NeverTrumpers to do is, as Rust Moranis said, "promote, support and vote for democratic candidates and [be] willing to actively choose a little socialism over a lot of fascism."
Pretty much this. 3-4 Senators really could reshape the entire course of this administration. All they'd have to do would be vote with Democrats maybe 30% of the time, like our Conservadems routinely do the other direction. But that's too much to ask to save America, I know.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Times is reporting it as Unsubstantiated Report Has Compromising Information on Trump, Intelligence Chiefs Say, basically not confirming anything and saying intelligence agencies didn't confirm it last week either.
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
He doesn't do his own peeing. He outsources it.
To foreign workers.
posted by zachlipton at 4:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
To foreign workers.
posted by zachlipton at 4:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
I mean, this is clearly going to be good for a lot of terrible pee puns, but I don't think it's going to make any difference. And we may need to stop winding up the Donald, because in ten days he'll be able to nuke people.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
This wasn't released to sink Trump, this was released to sink Tillerson. His hearing is tomorrow, there's no way for the senate to move him forward now.
posted by peeedro at 4:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 4:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Winding up the Donald? Is that what the kids are calling it nowadays?
posted by valkane at 4:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
That's pretty fuckin' close to treason if true.
posted by Justinian at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty much willing to buy into any sort of "we live in a simulation gone amok" sort of argument you care to make at this point.
see, many people are making this mistake. in actual fact, the simulation is playing out precisely as planned.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017
see, many people are making this mistake. in actual fact, the simulation is playing out precisely as planned.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017
Too late now to do anything about! Hand over the keys to the guy compromised by foreign spies who had prostitutes pee on the bed of President Obama for reasons! Sorry, America!
Fixed that for myself.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fixed that for myself.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
His hearing is tomorrow, there's no way for the senate to move him forward now.
Why not? They have even more cover now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Why not? They have even more cover now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I take it back: Trumped-up trickle-down WAS a good line!
posted by rewil at 4:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by rewil at 4:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
Why not? They have even more cover now.
Only if they remember to put the seat back down.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Only if they remember to put the seat back down.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
POlitico: Trump laying the groundwork for 2020 reelection bid
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump plans to keep his Manhattan-based campaign headquarters open as he assumes the presidency – a move that represents a sharp break from his predecessors, and one that positions him to begin running for reelection in 2020.I'm sure the rent for this space is coming out of donor pockets.
According to two people briefed on the plans, Trump intends to retain a skeletal campaign staff of around ten people with a senior aide at the helm. They will work in Trump Tower, the Midtown skyscraper that Trump’s 2016 campaign was based out of.[...]With the 2016 election cycle officially over, they are now legally allowed to begin soliciting donations for the 2020 reelection campaign from contributors who gave to Trump’s 2016 campaign.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh gods its going to be pee jokes for the next week isn't it? Mods, clean up on Aisle 5!
Because there's, you know, pee everywhere
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Because there's, you know, pee everywhere
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
>Yet more non-news.
>>>Again, MSM has had this for months. They published today. it's news.
This "dodgy dossier" is a problem because it's going to dominate the news cycle until the weekend, and it's going to be presented or interpreted as fact by a lot of people.
And yet there are so, so, so many other things to talk about, such as the highly embarrassing confirmation hearings blah blah blah.
Anyway, I wonder how long Buzzfeed lasts until Peter Thiel crushes it like a bug.
posted by My Dad at 4:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
>>>Again, MSM has had this for months. They published today. it's news.
This "dodgy dossier" is a problem because it's going to dominate the news cycle until the weekend, and it's going to be presented or interpreted as fact by a lot of people.
And yet there are so, so, so many other things to talk about, such as the highly embarrassing confirmation hearings blah blah blah.
Anyway, I wonder how long Buzzfeed lasts until Peter Thiel crushes it like a bug.
posted by My Dad at 4:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, this is clearly going to be good for a lot of terrible pee puns, but I don't think it's going to make any difference. And we may need to stop winding up the Donald, because in ten days he'll be able to nuke people.
1. I don't care if it doesn't make any difference, let the people make pee puns.
2. "Winding up the Donald" is something that we should never, ever, ever stop doing.
2. As the blast approaches, I will face the consuming wave of nuclear destruction with a pee joke on my lips.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
1. I don't care if it doesn't make any difference, let the people make pee puns.
2. "Winding up the Donald" is something that we should never, ever, ever stop doing.
2. As the blast approaches, I will face the consuming wave of nuclear destruction with a pee joke on my lips.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh gods its going to be pee jokes for the next week isn't it?
You're-in luck.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [53 favorites]
You're-in luck.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [53 favorites]
was released to sink Tillerson
Pee For The Tillerson.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
Pee For The Tillerson.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
If this kind of thing is going to happen every time I'm away from my computer for three hours because of a shitty commute, I volunteer to drive through every fucking snowstorm I can find for the next four years.
posted by Etrigan at 4:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
I know I should read the thread at least a little ways back, but what the hell happened? I opened up Twitter to comments about golden showers and that seems to be a pretty rapid downhill slide even for Twitter.
posted by nubs at 4:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm imagining a never ending stack of Orson Welles Slow Clapping GIFs stacked on top of each other after each pee joke.
1. I don't care if it doesn't make any difference, let the people make pee puns.
2. "Winding up the Donald" is something that we should never, ever, ever stop doing.
2. As the blast approaches, I will face the consuming wave of nuclear destruction with a pee joke on my lips.
In haiku form:
Let us make pee puns
Don't stop until Trump bombs us
Pee still on our lips
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
1. I don't care if it doesn't make any difference, let the people make pee puns.
2. "Winding up the Donald" is something that we should never, ever, ever stop doing.
2. As the blast approaches, I will face the consuming wave of nuclear destruction with a pee joke on my lips.
In haiku form:
Let us make pee puns
Don't stop until Trump bombs us
Pee still on our lips
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Bad news from the VA special election: Projection 7:16- Mark Peake (R) elected to Virginia Senate keeping control of the Senate in GOP hands. 21 R, 19D with D LG for ties.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zombieflanders at 4:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
You're-in luck.
*stares at roomthreeseventeen for a long beat*
*sighs*
take this favorite, you magnificent bastard
posted by entropicamericana at 4:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
*stares at roomthreeseventeen for a long beat*
*sighs*
take this favorite, you magnificent bastard
posted by entropicamericana at 4:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
WaPo The man to watch in Rex Tillerson’s confirmation hearing? Marco Rubio.
The Florida Republican is likely to reveal what kind of future he wants in President-elect Donald Trump’s Washington, and there are two broad possibilities. He could play a lead role in trying to torpedo Trump’s pick for the nation’s top diplomat, by turning his question-and-answer sessions with Tillerson into an aggressive attack on his economic ties to Russia and the honors bestowed upon him by President Vladimir Putin.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or Rubio could be, well, more diplomatic, tempering his questions about Tillerson’s global philosophy and Trump’s own views toward Putin and paving the way for an easy confirmation.
Two interesting bits:
The original version of the documents posted by Buzzfeed have a clause broadly describing the employment position of "Source E," who allegedly reported on the hotel bed allegations. They've since reposted with that clause blacked out.
Page 15 claims that the Kremlin funded trips to Moscow for Jill Stein, Carter Page, and Michael Flynn and sought to turn the "educated US youth" vote against Clinton "as a protest against the Washington establishment." It goes on claim that the hope was that, even if Clinton won, she'd be bogged down in domestic discord as a result, instead of focusing on foreign policy priorities that could hurt Russia.
posted by zachlipton at 4:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
The original version of the documents posted by Buzzfeed have a clause broadly describing the employment position of "Source E," who allegedly reported on the hotel bed allegations. They've since reposted with that clause blacked out.
Page 15 claims that the Kremlin funded trips to Moscow for Jill Stein, Carter Page, and Michael Flynn and sought to turn the "educated US youth" vote against Clinton "as a protest against the Washington establishment." It goes on claim that the hope was that, even if Clinton won, she'd be bogged down in domestic discord as a result, instead of focusing on foreign policy priorities that could hurt Russia.
posted by zachlipton at 4:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
I know I should read the thread at least a little ways back, but what the hell happened?Buzzfeed published a dossier, supposedly from someone in British intelligence, that claims that Trump is working for the Russians in various ways and for various reasons, including that they have incriminating video of him hiring hookers to pee on a bed that Obama slept on. It actually doesn't really sound like the supposed video shows anything having to do with golden showers, and even if it were true, there would be more incriminating stuff in there. But consensus among journalists seems to be that this stuff has been circulating for a long time, and nobody has published it because it can't be corroborated.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
So basically, nothing is happening except that we're all taking a much-deserved pee-joke break from stressing out about the fucking apocalypse.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
#watersportsgate
posted by porn in the woods at 4:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 4:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Look, the urine stuff is fun. But if Obama and Trump were both briefed that Russia has shit on Trump, I'm going with there is something real here.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
porn in the woods: "#watersportsgate"
you magnificent fucker.
posted by boo_radley at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
you magnificent fucker.
posted by boo_radley at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
If I knew Russian I'd totally volunteer to pretend to be a sex worker who peed on a Obama's hotel bed for trump.
For America.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
For America.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
some say Don's life wasn't complete
until he turned that face into a toilet seat
posted by mannequito at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
until he turned that face into a toilet seat
posted by mannequito at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
@FoxNews
President-elect Donald Trump's plane given a water salute as it takes off from NY to the White House for his meeting with President Obama
this video!!!!!!.... RIP me, I am dead.
posted by acidic at 4:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
President-elect Donald Trump's plane given a water salute as it takes off from NY to the White House for his meeting with President Obama
this video!!!!!!.... RIP me, I am dead.
posted by acidic at 4:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
But consensus among journalists seems to be that this stuff has been circulating for a long time, and nobody has published it because it can't be corroborated.
So its exactly as newsworthy as the second Comey letter, but was not reported before the election.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
So its exactly as newsworthy as the second Comey letter, but was not reported before the election.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
So does this mean that parents are now going to have to explain "golden showers" to their kids?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
The minimum response to #pizzagate... #pissergate.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
acidic: "@FoxNews
President-elect Donald Trump's plane given a water salute as it takes off from NY to the White House for his meeting with President Obama
this video!!!!!!.... RIP me, I am dead."
someone who's good with aftereffects, please get on this
posted by boo_radley at 4:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
President-elect Donald Trump's plane given a water salute as it takes off from NY to the White House for his meeting with President Obama
this video!!!!!!.... RIP me, I am dead."
someone who's good with aftereffects, please get on this
posted by boo_radley at 4:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mattresses in Moscow Ritz Carlton are hugely overrated. Not very absorbant, compared to Trump Tower mattresses! Sad.
posted by uosuaq at 4:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 4:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Good Timing...
"I will be having a general news conference on JANUARY ELEVENTH in N.Y.C. Thank you."
(3rd Jan)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I will be having a general news conference on JANUARY ELEVENTH in N.Y.C. Thank you."
(3rd Jan)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
O hai America u need a soundtrack amirite?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2017
So does this mean that parents are now going to have to explain "golden showers" to their kids?
Worse, some people will have to explain to their parents.
My father passed away on Dec 30 (he was 89, it was expected after a recent decline), but he got to vote for HRC, which he wanted to do. I'm ... grateful I don't have to explain any of this to him.
posted by suelac at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Worse, some people will have to explain to their parents.
My father passed away on Dec 30 (he was 89, it was expected after a recent decline), but he got to vote for HRC, which he wanted to do. I'm ... grateful I don't have to explain any of this to him.
posted by suelac at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
So does this mean that parents are now going to have to explain "golden showers" to their kids?
I think this generation of kids may find "golden showers" easier to understand than the story of a certain blue dress.
posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think this generation of kids may find "golden showers" easier to understand than the story of a certain blue dress.
posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
guys it was just an error in translation... he actually wanted them to perform the fourteen track off abbey road for him.
posted by entropicamericana at 4:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 4:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately, I think a hooker hired to piss on obamas bed is just the kind of gamergate bro-bullshit prank that will only win him fans in certain places.
However, I'm curious as to how all this eventually shakes out; is it okay now for me to approach elderly evangelicals who voted for trump and ask about hooker-pissing and pussy-grabbing? I mean, if it's good enough for their president, it should be good enough for me, right? And them? Right?
posted by valkane at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
However, I'm curious as to how all this eventually shakes out; is it okay now for me to approach elderly evangelicals who voted for trump and ask about hooker-pissing and pussy-grabbing? I mean, if it's good enough for their president, it should be good enough for me, right? And them? Right?
posted by valkane at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
While the focus on Trump surrogates who could have been communicating with Russia is on the obvious suspects like Manafort and Page, I keep thinking about Ivanka's vacation during the election with Wendi Deng. Deng is the ex-wife of Rupert Murdoch, was rumored to be Putin's girlfriend last year, and recently had photos with some new boyfriend splashed all over Murdoch tabloids (see? totes not with Putin!). And there were those weird out of nowhere rumors yesterday of Ivanka backing away from the Trump White House. I mean that's one hell of a possible line of communication.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Expect Trump's inauguration to have a "soft sensuality" not a "circus-like celebration" with celebrities, says his inauguration planner
Suddenly this takes on a whole new meaning. And it was already pretty gross to begin with.
posted by scalefree at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Suddenly this takes on a whole new meaning. And it was already pretty gross to begin with.
posted by scalefree at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Urineauguration
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
I just... is there anyone in the world who wants to hear "Donald Trump" and "soft sensuality" in the same sentence?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gonna have to start spelling it TrumP now.
posted by Etrigan at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
@DannyZuker
As inevitable headlines go, "Trump Campaign Manager Arrested for Assault," is second only to "Trump Caught Paying Prostitute To Pee On Him."
Folks, that's from 29 Mar 2016.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
As inevitable headlines go, "Trump Campaign Manager Arrested for Assault," is second only to "Trump Caught Paying Prostitute To Pee On Him."
Folks, that's from 29 Mar 2016.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
So does this mean that parents are now going to have to explain "golden showers" to their kids?
I am a parent, and this is something that is going to come up. I have kids who like to talk about Donald Trump. I have a simple rule: "We don't talk about Donald. Period."
We're not Americans so we don't have to waste our time with "US politics."
posted by My Dad at 4:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am a parent, and this is something that is going to come up. I have kids who like to talk about Donald Trump. I have a simple rule: "We don't talk about Donald. Period."
We're not Americans so we don't have to waste our time with "US politics."
posted by My Dad at 4:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I actually do not want to hear either "soft sensuality" or "Donald Trump" in any sentence.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Programming note: President Obama's farewell speech is at 9PM ET, streaming here.
Reports that President-elect Trump will make a special midnight visit to Obama's podium following the speech and that large quantities of tarps have been ordered for the occasion could not be confirmed at press time.
posted by zachlipton at 4:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Reports that President-elect Trump will make a special midnight visit to Obama's podium following the speech and that large quantities of tarps have been ordered for the occasion could not be confirmed at press time.
posted by zachlipton at 4:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mashable: Judge dismisses libel suit against Trump because his tweets are 'hyperbolic'
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
According to the American Bar Association Journal, Judge Barbara Jaffe considered her ruling in "the spirit of the First Amendment" and considered Trump's statements "imprecise and hyperbolic political dispute cum schoolyard squabble."His tweets "should not be taken seriously" but unfortunately they are taken seriously by his rabid base.
She also said because Trump's comments were on Twitter, they should not be taken seriously.
"His tweets about his critics, necessarily restricted to 140 characters or less, are rife with vague and simplistic insults such as 'loser' or 'total loser' or 'totally biased loser,' 'dummy' or 'dope' or 'dumb,' 'zero/no credibility,' 'crazy' or 'wacko' and 'disaster,' all deflecting serious consideration," Jaffe wrote.
Ultimately, she concluded his "intemperate tweets" are "clearly intended to belittle and demean" the plaintiff.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Huh, that's how his skin gets that golden glow.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
If golden showers are in his mind appropriate for a hotel bed used by the Obamas, what does he have planned for the White House?
posted by rewil at 4:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by rewil at 4:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
This Mother Jones article from October is worth revisiting now:
Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump
"It started off as a fairly general inquiry," says the former spook, who asks not to be identified. But when he dug into Trump, he notes, he came across troubling information indicating connections between Trump and the Russian government. According to his sources, he says, "there was an established exchange of information between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin of mutual benefit."
The report claimed that Russian intelligence had "compromised" Trump during his visits to Moscow and could "blackmail him."
posted by diogenes at 4:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump
"It started off as a fairly general inquiry," says the former spook, who asks not to be identified. But when he dug into Trump, he notes, he came across troubling information indicating connections between Trump and the Russian government. According to his sources, he says, "there was an established exchange of information between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin of mutual benefit."
The report claimed that Russian intelligence had "compromised" Trump during his visits to Moscow and could "blackmail him."
posted by diogenes at 4:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sometimes I think we are in the darkest timeline; sometimes I think we are in the weirdest timeline. Or maybe it's the darkest, weirdest timeline?
Maybe I should be glad I won't be home in time for the evening news. My wife can answer the kids questions; I'll do the dishes as repayment.
posted by nubs at 4:42 PM on January 10, 2017
Maybe I should be glad I won't be home in time for the evening news. My wife can answer the kids questions; I'll do the dishes as repayment.
posted by nubs at 4:42 PM on January 10, 2017
What a day to lose my internet connection. *waits 20 minutes for page to load*
posted by threeturtles at 4:42 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by threeturtles at 4:42 PM on January 10, 2017
Programming note: President Obama's farewell speech is at 9PM ET, streaming here.
Followed immediately by Trump's.
posted by scalefree at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Followed immediately by Trump's.
posted by scalefree at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mic Michael Cohen, Trump’s lawyer, emphatically denies claims in salacious circulated report
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Trump loyalist said he was in Los Angeles celebrating his 50th birthday with his wife and son during the late summer timeframe when the document claimed he was supposedly hobnobbing with the Russians at a secret meeting overseas.[...]Of course. It is Hillary Clinton who is to blame.
Cohen went on to say that he "was told that this is coming out of a dossier that the Clinton campaign had put together on Mr. Trump, [his] children, [his son-in-law] Jared [Kushner], myself and others who are close to him to be used during the campaign, if necessary."
If that was the case, he said, "I would ask for my money back, because there's not a shred of accuracy to anything disclosed in their report."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe the theme of 2017 is "Everything's actually fine again, but in a way you never could of predicted"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
He's like a Frank Miller Sin City villain, when you get right down to it.
posted by valkane at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Explaining Donald Trump to my kids is something I struggle with. Many teachable moments, really. But we have a rule: no talk about Donald Trump at the dinner table.
posted by My Dad at 4:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by My Dad at 4:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nevermind, I see that the Buzzfeed article mentions the Mother Jones article, and they are both talking about the same spy and the same report.
But the fact that intelligence is giving the report enough credence to present it to the president is astounding. If the report is true, I think everything changes.
posted by diogenes at 4:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
But the fact that intelligence is giving the report enough credence to present it to the president is astounding. If the report is true, I think everything changes.
posted by diogenes at 4:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think this generation of kids may find "golden showers" easier to understand than the story of a certain blue dress.
Some day you will venture on something more shameful than this dress; no one reaches the depths of turpitude all at once.
- Juvenal
posted by pyramid termite at 4:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some day you will venture on something more shameful than this dress; no one reaches the depths of turpitude all at once.
- Juvenal
posted by pyramid termite at 4:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
the arc of urine is long, but it bends towards Trump
posted by adrianhon at 4:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 4:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
I'm thinking the chances of a Trump press conference tomorrow are roughly zero-point-minus-a-billion.
posted by uosuaq at 4:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 4:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
He's like a Frank Miller Sin City villain, when you get right down to it.
ThatYellow Orange Bastard
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
That
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
@BuzzFeedBen Here's the note I sent to @buzzfeednews staff this evening
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
If the report is true, I think everything changes
Well, the sheets at least.
Outside of that, I expect this is another "surely, this" moment.
posted by nubs at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Well, the sheets at least.
Outside of that, I expect this is another "surely, this" moment.
posted by nubs at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
That bed really tied the room together, did it not?
Fuckin'-A.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Fuckin'-A.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Enough with the pee jokes! This is a big fucking deal!
posted by diogenes at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by diogenes at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Buzzfeed Ben wrote a memo basically saying they decided to publish in the interests of transparency, I guess following the CNN story. That seems really weak to me and if it all ends up being unverified, then it's yet another distraction to be piled on top of the Republican Hive Mind Gish Gallop scheduled for tomorrow.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course. It is Hillary Clinton who is to blame.
why would she go to all this trouble when she could just have had him murdered? or done it herself?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
why would she go to all this trouble when she could just have had him murdered? or done it herself?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
But we have a rule: no talk about Donald Trump at the dinner table
We also have a rule: no talk about Donald Trump in the bedroom.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
We also have a rule: no talk about Donald Trump in the bedroom.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Wilbur Ross confirmation hearings have been postponed due to lack of Office of Government Ethics paperwork.
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
I don't know if this is just another "surely this" thing. I'm a little biased, because I've been hoping for this to become a big [fucking] deal since reading hints about it on one of the election threads from way back, but let's also bear in mind that "golden showers" is the kind of thing that gets the public's attention in a big way. And the timing is insane.
posted by uosuaq at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Enough with the pee jokes! This is a big fucking deal!
Look, if this is really a big deal then we'll still be hearing about it after the pee jokes have subsided. For now it's clear that we have a lot to release and get out of our system. Let it flow.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
Look, if this is really a big deal then we'll still be hearing about it after the pee jokes have subsided. For now it's clear that we have a lot to release and get out of our system. Let it flow.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [34 favorites]
Me: "hmm that's odd; why is R Kelly trending on Twitter all of a sudden? ... ... ... oooooooooh"
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm thinking the chances of a Trump press conference tomorrow are roughly zero-point-minus-a-billion
Depends.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [81 favorites]
Depends.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [81 favorites]
I think this generation of kids may find "golden showers" easier to understand than the story of a certain blue dress.
Look, no matter how often you say it's blue, we all know it's really white and gold.
Oh, you mean that other dress. Never mind.
posted by jackbishop at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Look, no matter how often you say it's blue, we all know it's really white and gold.
Oh, you mean that other dress. Never mind.
posted by jackbishop at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Enough with the pee jokes! This is a big fucking deal!
They're good jokes, diogenes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
They're good jokes, diogenes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
Meanwhile, Eliot Spitzer is all like "FUCK! All I did was have sex with prostitutes! And this guy gets to be president?"
posted by valkane at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Chapter 31: In which Peter Thiel finds out what it's like to be on the wrong side of a sex tape case.
posted by uosuaq at 4:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 4:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
We should keep in mind that Buzzfeed itself diminishes the significance of the report by identifying two "clear errors":
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
The report misspells the name of one company, “Alpha Group,” throughout. It is Alfa Group. The report says the settlement of Barvikha, outside Moscow, is “reserved for the residences of the top leadership and their close associates.” It is not reserved for anyone, and it is also populated by the very wealthy.Yes, a typo and an arguable inaccuracy about the precise nature of the village housing Vladimir Putin's holiday resort.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's a joke to be made about pussy-grabbing but I don't want to think about it. #Not my Pissadent
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Baby Sprinkles
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:57 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:57 PM on January 10, 2017
Don't break the stream!
posted by valkane at 4:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 4:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Peeotus, surely?
posted by asteria at 5:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by asteria at 5:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
You don't just run with unverified information that may turn out to be nothing
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
President-Elect Trump finally announces his plan to deal with ISIS.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
For what its worth, I also resent that coverage of the nomination hearings are going to be knocked out of the news by piss-takes. There's some really awful people being considered for cabinet positions and I'd like to see some major coverage of the hearings - the questions, the testimony and the answers. If this knocks everything serious out of the headlines for a few days (including the serious allegations about how Russia may have influenced Trump's policies) then I'll suspect that he and his team were likely behind the timing of the report.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
1/ You may find it difficult to believe but what can doom Trump is not his perversions. It's his lawyer coordinating campaign with Moscow.--@scsazak
2/ If those meetings were known, they won't be difficult to reconnoiter. A single still showing Cohen in the act & Trump is toast.
I think this is the important bit. We already have Cohen denying it. If anybody can actually put Cohen in Prague during the relevant dates, then it's a whole new ballgame.
(h/t Pope Guilty's retweet)
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
Geez, I take a nap for a few hours and when I come back Trump is the pee man?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Googoogajoob.
posted by valkane at 5:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials."
posted by stopgap at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
I admit that I'm really freaking out. Terrorist threats against JCCs all over the country. It looks like the Senate is folding on Sessions, and no doubt will on Vos etc. We have a president elect who is wholly compromised and yet our intelligence agencies chose to keep that information from us, intentionally swaying the election to him. They got another chance when the EC voted, and they continued to withhold the info. We have no recourse to do anything about it. This is really how it all ends. He'll be president. Party over country. I just can't with the jokes.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, he always wanted the title with a capital P.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
This kind of thing would make for a great black comedy if it wasn't real life.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't know if this is just another "surely this" thing. I'm a little biased, because I've been hoping for this to become a big [fucking] deal since reading hints about it on one of the election threads from way back, but let's also bear in mind that "golden showers" is the kind of thing that gets the public's attention in a big way. And the timing is insane.
Back in...whatever year it was, it seems so long ago...late one evening I saw some mentions on Twitter of "Rob Ford" and "crack cocaine" and was like "What?" I clicked on Gawker, and was like "Oh, surely this." Then the Toronto Star had to run with the story because they saw the same video.
I recognize that the context and scope are very different, but there are these weird parallels to the experience that crop up in my mind.
Surely this. Nope. Not the lying about it, not the eventual admission of it, or even, posthumously, the publication of the actual video in which Rob Ford was sitting in chair, smoking crack, changed a goddamn thing vis-a-vis Rob Ford and his base of support.
In which Daniel Dale of the Toronto Star has Rob Ford flashbacks...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Back in...whatever year it was, it seems so long ago...late one evening I saw some mentions on Twitter of "Rob Ford" and "crack cocaine" and was like "What?" I clicked on Gawker, and was like "Oh, surely this." Then the Toronto Star had to run with the story because they saw the same video.
I recognize that the context and scope are very different, but there are these weird parallels to the experience that crop up in my mind.
Surely this. Nope. Not the lying about it, not the eventual admission of it, or even, posthumously, the publication of the actual video in which Rob Ford was sitting in chair, smoking crack, changed a goddamn thing vis-a-vis Rob Ford and his base of support.
In which Daniel Dale of the Toronto Star has Rob Ford flashbacks...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
The aristocrats!
posted by nubs at 5:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by nubs at 5:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
This kind of thing would make for a great black comedy if it wasn't real life.
Not even Veep would go for golden showers, I think. Only real life could give us such a nightmare.
posted by dis_integration at 5:09 PM on January 10, 2017
Not even Veep would go for golden showers, I think. Only real life could give us such a nightmare.
posted by dis_integration at 5:09 PM on January 10, 2017
So as I understand the situation:
1. These memos have been circulating all over the damn place (from reporters to John McCain) for months, but nobody has been able to verify them and so they've gone unpublished, though Mother Jones did do a story broadly based on them.
2. Intelligence agencies included a summary of the uncorroborated memos in their briefing to underscore their point that these was damaging information about Trump that went unpublished, but also to show that they were totally on top of these things if the information later leaked.
3. CNN finds out about said summary, reports on it.
4. Buzzfeed says "fuck it," uses the CNN report to conclude that it's a matter of public interest and that the agencies wouldn't have briefed the summary if it was all garbage, right? So they publish.
Because that's a wild, yet all too plausible, chain of events.
posted by zachlipton at 5:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
1. These memos have been circulating all over the damn place (from reporters to John McCain) for months, but nobody has been able to verify them and so they've gone unpublished, though Mother Jones did do a story broadly based on them.
2. Intelligence agencies included a summary of the uncorroborated memos in their briefing to underscore their point that these was damaging information about Trump that went unpublished, but also to show that they were totally on top of these things if the information later leaked.
3. CNN finds out about said summary, reports on it.
4. Buzzfeed says "fuck it," uses the CNN report to conclude that it's a matter of public interest and that the agencies wouldn't have briefed the summary if it was all garbage, right? So they publish.
Because that's a wild, yet all too plausible, chain of events.
posted by zachlipton at 5:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
I've been extremely pessimistic but...The way the FISA info is coming out now feels...like an avalanche. I know nothing and I can be wrong but it feels like everyone just decided to put it all out there and the framing feels a lot less "innocent until proven guilty" than I'm used to feeling.
posted by Brainy at 5:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 5:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Needs more pigs. #BlackMirror
posted by scalefree at 5:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 5:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
"I figured Trump was Putin's poodle...but it turns out he's Putin's peedle!"
posted by uosuaq at 5:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
make the jokes funny, cutting, and long-lasting.
Pull my finger.
posted by valkane at 5:14 PM on January 10, 2017
Pull my finger.
posted by valkane at 5:14 PM on January 10, 2017
Yeah, the way to joke about Trump for a little while is to discuss the horrible thing he's doing and then added a piss related punchline.
"Trump cuts Food Stamp program! Melania was heard saying 'let them eat urinal cake.'"
That sort of thing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
"Trump cuts Food Stamp program! Melania was heard saying 'let them eat urinal cake.'"
That sort of thing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
.....timing.
posted by notyou at 5:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by notyou at 5:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Another of the reports compiled by the former western counter-intelligence official in July said that members of Trump’s team... had knowledge of the DNC hacking operation, and in return “had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue
And you'll never guess which item in the Republican party platform was the only one that the Trump campaign intervened in.
posted by diogenes at 5:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
And you'll never guess which item in the Republican party platform was the only one that the Trump campaign intervened in.
posted by diogenes at 5:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
If this knocks everything serious out of the headlines for a few days (including the serious allegations about how Russia may have influenced Trump's policies) then I'll suspect that he and his team were likely behind the timing of the report.
We'll see how this plays out, but I think you're very wrong about this. The badness of the Cabinet appointees simply has no power to sway the course of events. That's not fair, and it's ugly, but it's true. This, on the other hand - the grotesque salaciousness of the sexual allegations + the seriousness of the treason accusations - that's a political scandal with explosive power. People will not look away.
This was timed to coincide with the Rex Tillerson nomination, in a way that threatens him far more than ten thousand polite questions about whether or not he believes in global warming. In an ideal world, you win by asking those questions and expecting the electorate to thoughtfully consider the answers. In this world, you release an unverified report of Trump asking Russian prostitutes to pee on a bed. This is what political hardball looks like, and it's what I've been waiting for since goddamned November 9th. It may work, or it may not, but damn, they're going in for the kill.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 5:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
We'll see how this plays out, but I think you're very wrong about this. The badness of the Cabinet appointees simply has no power to sway the course of events. That's not fair, and it's ugly, but it's true. This, on the other hand - the grotesque salaciousness of the sexual allegations + the seriousness of the treason accusations - that's a political scandal with explosive power. People will not look away.
This was timed to coincide with the Rex Tillerson nomination, in a way that threatens him far more than ten thousand polite questions about whether or not he believes in global warming. In an ideal world, you win by asking those questions and expecting the electorate to thoughtfully consider the answers. In this world, you release an unverified report of Trump asking Russian prostitutes to pee on a bed. This is what political hardball looks like, and it's what I've been waiting for since goddamned November 9th. It may work, or it may not, but damn, they're going in for the kill.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 5:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
This is great and all, but best case scenario is Trump steps down/is impeached and we get the world's shittiest consolation prize of President Pence.
posted by Eddie Mars at 5:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Eddie Mars at 5:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trump pees on America's leg and tells us it's raining.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 5:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
also to show that they were totally on top of these things if the information later leaked
It leaked alright.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is great and all, but best case scenario is Trump steps down/is impeached and we get the world's shittiest consolation prize of President Pence.
Is that really how it would work? The Trump campaign colludes with a hostile foreign power to win, and his running mate gets to keep the prize?
posted by diogenes at 5:19 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is that really how it would work? The Trump campaign colludes with a hostile foreign power to win, and his running mate gets to keep the prize?
posted by diogenes at 5:19 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
But even if there's high-definition video of Trump hiring and paying prostitutes doing literally anything at all, no matter how shocking, I would be very surprised if it has any negative effect on Trump.
This isn't about the peeing. It's about the collusion.
posted by diogenes at 5:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
This isn't about the peeing. It's about the collusion.
posted by diogenes at 5:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Easy-to-explain federal crimes" probably include running for president while taking orders from Russia because of blackmail. I mean, IANAL, but still.
posted by uosuaq at 5:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
1. These memos have been circulating all over the damn place (from reporters to John McCain) for months, but nobody has been able to verify them and so they've gone unpublished, though Mother Jones did do a story broadly based on them.
I think this is mostly true, but take a look at the dates on the memos Buzzfeed published. I think they go up to, most recently, mid-December. So some of them may have been in circulation for a while, but some of it is relatively current intel (or not, depending on how you feel about the overall credibility).
posted by Mothlight at 5:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think this is mostly true, but take a look at the dates on the memos Buzzfeed published. I think they go up to, most recently, mid-December. So some of them may have been in circulation for a while, but some of it is relatively current intel (or not, depending on how you feel about the overall credibility).
posted by Mothlight at 5:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, the collusion and the treason.
posted by diogenes at 5:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
This isn't about the peeing. It's about the collusion.
Yes, Machinations, not Micturations.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yes, Machinations, not Micturations.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is great and all, but best case scenario is Trump steps down/is impeached and we get the world's shittiest consolation prize of President Pence.
As a non-American, I would take the incremental improvement of "less chance of a global nuclear catastrophe."
However, I'm not kidding myself. Trump is here to stay. This is a non-story. A waste of time, really.
posted by My Dad at 5:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a non-American, I would take the incremental improvement of "less chance of a global nuclear catastrophe."
However, I'm not kidding myself. Trump is here to stay. This is a non-story. A waste of time, really.
posted by My Dad at 5:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
While his true believers would likely stand by his side (but maybe a few inches away from him just in case he, you know...), one hopes this would give the more hostile R's a chance to turn on him and impeach him. Like start it immediately.
I know, I know, its all a dream.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know, I know, its all a dream.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
He knows.
posted by zachlipton at 5:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
FAKE NEWS - A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT!--@realDonaldTrump
posted by zachlipton at 5:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
Ooh, allcaps. This one's really made him mad.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
Fucking Buzzfeed. You can't just slander him because of the status that he portrays himself in being an outsider. When you put shit like this out into the world you better be unimpeachable otherwise it just assimilates into his image and helps him with his base even if it's later proven true.
posted by Talez at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is that really how it would work? The Trump campaign colludes with a hostile foreign power to win, and his running mate gets to keep the prize?It is, yeah. If Pence is also implicated, they can impeach him and keep going down the chain of command until they get to someone who didn't know about it. But there's no mechanism for having another election, and everyone currently lined up to be in the chain of command is appalling.
Actually: what happens if the President, VP, Speaker of the House and President of the Senate are impeached before a cabinet is approved? I think that would be a massive Constitutional crisis.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
What does Bill Kristol have to say? Because I'll take the opposite stance.
posted by nubs at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by nubs at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
These tweets make me happy, but I don't know if they have any basis in constitutional fact.
Elliott Lusztig
"We're in uncharted waters. We don't have laws to address this situation. But by right & justice: Hillary Clinton is the legitimate PEOTUS."
"2. She was hacked by a foreign enemy in collusion with her main rival candidate. Who committed treason. That whole ticked is disqualified."
(and so on)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Elliott Lusztig
"We're in uncharted waters. We don't have laws to address this situation. But by right & justice: Hillary Clinton is the legitimate PEOTUS."
"2. She was hacked by a foreign enemy in collusion with her main rival candidate. Who committed treason. That whole ticked is disqualified."
(and so on)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
He's really pissed.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
Man, that was creepy as shit, zachlipton. Like a tweet from sauron.
posted by valkane at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
But if the Trump CAMPAIGN colluded with the Russians, and Pence is part of that campaign, surely that? Would mean President Ryan, fuck.
posted by Ruki at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
A rejoinder to Trump's ALL-CAPS tweet:
Iron Curtain: The Number of the Troll
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017
Iron Curtain: The Number of the Troll
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017
I'll tell you guys one thing: this is making it way easier to come up with things to put on my protest signs.
posted by otenba at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by otenba at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
Actually: what happens if the President, VP, Speaker of the House and President of the Senate are impeached before a cabinet is approved? I think that would be a massive Constitutional crisis.
As much as I hate the guy, if Paul Ryan had anything to do with any possible Trump shenanigans I'll eat my left shoe.
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
As much as I hate the guy, if Paul Ryan had anything to do with any possible Trump shenanigans I'll eat my left shoe.
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
...and his running mate gets to keep the prize?
Yeah, and this is a serious flaw in the constitutional setup, going back to its origins. The US has no mechanism to change which party holds the presidency over the course of a term other than by a series of kludges, because that bit dates back to the days before party affiliation. Compare the French constitution, where a vacancy means a new election.
posted by holgate at 5:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, and this is a serious flaw in the constitutional setup, going back to its origins. The US has no mechanism to change which party holds the presidency over the course of a term other than by a series of kludges, because that bit dates back to the days before party affiliation. Compare the French constitution, where a vacancy means a new election.
posted by holgate at 5:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
So you folks remember that increasingly fighty discussion we had last night about going high vs taking the low road sometimes? Because whichever side you came down on, the train seems to be departing for option #2 right now.
posted by zachlipton at 5:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
what happens if the President, VP, Speaker of the House and President of the Senate are impeached before a cabinet is approved? I think that would be a massive Constitutional crisis.
Couldn't Congress just appoint a new Speaker?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Couldn't Congress just appoint a new Speaker?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Donald doth protest too much, methinks.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because whichever side you came down on, the train seems to be departing for option #2 right now.
surely you mean option #1
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
surely you mean option #1
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:28 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
So you folks remember that increasingly fighty discussion we had last night about going high vs taking the low road sometimes? Because whichever side you came down on, the train seems to be departing for option #2 right now.
It's not the low road until a D is on the floor of the Senate denouncing Trump as a foreign agent and sexual deviant.
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's not the low road until a D is on the floor of the Senate denouncing Trump as a foreign agent and sexual deviant.
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Man, that was creepy as shit, zachlipton. Like a tweet from sauron.
We're at the eye glancing around frantically as the ring enters Mt. Doom stage, I think.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
We're at the eye glancing around frantically as the ring enters Mt. Doom stage, I think.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
2017 is off to a terrific start.
posted by notyou at 5:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by notyou at 5:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
peeus ex machina
posted by tel3path at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
We're at the eye glancing around frantically as the ring enters Mt. Doom stage, I think.
BUT WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE TAKEN THE EAGLE IN THE FIRST PLACE
posted by entropicamericana at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
BUT WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE TAKEN THE EAGLE IN THE FIRST PLACE
posted by entropicamericana at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
I say joke away because nothing is going to get Trump so riled that he truly says or does something blatantly, unequivocally insane and/or illegal faster than if he thinks everyone is laughing at him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
Now we know why Trump only sleeps at home in one of the beds he controls - he doesn't want anyone to pee on a place he's slept, thus taking his Quickening or whatever. Sad.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
Please let's play this like Emails or whatever (except, you know, actually a malicious thing) and just never stop repeating "pee Russia pee Russia hooker pee Russia" forever and ever. One of democrats' problems is that we have way too much faith in peoples' memories.
posted by R a c h e l at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by R a c h e l at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
McCain comes off looking like a rube, here.
posted by My Dad at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by My Dad at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yea, the pee joke are fun. But pointless except as a coping mechanism. Again, the elected GOP already knew all this shit. They're not impeaching him over this. Or over anything. Ever. He signs the tax cuts and kicks the gays and the poor. That's worth any amount of treason, and not one of them will break against him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
BBC News TRENDING!
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
- Earth's Core has more silicon in than previously thought!
- Video of Footballer fumbling with his phone at acceptance speech
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just replied to @realDonaldTrump: you sound pissed off. I thought you liked to be pissed on.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
A pox on the phony Piss-adent of Washington! *twangs lyre*
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just replied to @realDonaldTrump: you sound pissed off. I thought you liked to be pissed on.
It's just going to be a steady drip-drip-drip, isn't it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's just going to be a steady drip-drip-drip, isn't it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
what happens if the President, VP, Speaker of the House and President of the Senate are impeached before a cabinet is approved? I think that would be a massive Constitutional crisis.
Some legal scholars believe that deputy secretaries etc. are in the line of succession as well. But yeah, probably a big ol' honkin' Constitutional crisis.
posted by Etrigan at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017
Some legal scholars believe that deputy secretaries etc. are in the line of succession as well. But yeah, probably a big ol' honkin' Constitutional crisis.
posted by Etrigan at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017
BUT WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE TAKEN THE EAGLE IN THE FIRST PLACE
You've seen how eagles react to Trump, right?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
You've seen how eagles react to Trump, right?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
BUT WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE TAKEN THE EAGLE IN THE FIRST PLACE
When Bernie was fighting the Balrog he said "FLY YOU FOOLS" and the Fellowship misunderstood and thought it meant Hillary's poll numbers.
posted by Talez at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017
When Bernie was fighting the Balrog he said "FLY YOU FOOLS" and the Fellowship misunderstood and thought it meant Hillary's poll numbers.
posted by Talez at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017
holgate: "...and his running mate gets to keep the prize?
Yeah, and this is a serious flaw in the constitutional setup, going back to its origins. The US has no mechanism to change which party holds the presidency over the course of a term other than by a series of kludges, because that bit dates back to the days before party affiliation. Compare the French constitution, where a vacancy means a new election."
It made sense when the VP was the runner-up in the presidential race. When they switched to having the President and VP on the same side, they should have changed the impeachment rules too.
posted by octothorpe at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yeah, and this is a serious flaw in the constitutional setup, going back to its origins. The US has no mechanism to change which party holds the presidency over the course of a term other than by a series of kludges, because that bit dates back to the days before party affiliation. Compare the French constitution, where a vacancy means a new election."
It made sense when the VP was the runner-up in the presidential race. When they switched to having the President and VP on the same side, they should have changed the impeachment rules too.
posted by octothorpe at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
Trump to bring Groom of the Stool to republican government [fake]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:37 PM on January 10, 2017
and yet, if it turns out to be true that his sexual preferences are consensual urine play, it will be the least objectional thing about him.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
BUT WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE TAKEN THE EAGLE IN THE FIRST PLACE
Oglaf explains!
(That page is SFW but the vast majority of Oglaf pages are emphatically NOT.)
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oglaf explains!
(That page is SFW but the vast majority of Oglaf pages are emphatically NOT.)
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
and yet, if it turns out to be true that his sexual preferences are consensual urine play, it will be the least objectional thing about him.
His sexual preference was disrespecting a powerful black man by having a bed he slept in pissed in, IMO.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
His sexual preference was disrespecting a powerful black man by having a bed he slept in pissed in, IMO.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
peeotus just retweeted a photo of the cover of michael cohen's passport
guess that settles it. #fakenews
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
guess that settles it. #fakenews
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
peeotus just retweeted a photo of the cover of michael cohen's passport
Yup. Trump knows the one part of the report that indicates treason. Too bad Prague is within the Schengen Area.
posted by stopgap at 5:41 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Yup. Trump knows the one part of the report that indicates treason. Too bad Prague is within the Schengen Area.
posted by stopgap at 5:41 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Michael Cohen has tweeted a photo of his passport cover while claiming he has never been to Prague in his life. I'm not really sure what the photo proves, but it does seem like it shouldn't be that hard to verify that part of the story or not, and a lot is riding on that reporting.
posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Michael Cohen has posted his passport on twitter to prove he's never been to Prague.
So that's settled then...
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:42 PM on January 10, 2017
So that's settled then...
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:42 PM on January 10, 2017
Is the age of consent in Russia 18? I hate that this is even a concern.
It's 16.
posted by Talez at 5:43 PM on January 10, 2017
It's 16.
posted by Talez at 5:43 PM on January 10, 2017
Yea, the pee joke are fun. But pointless except as a coping mechanism.
Like Donald pissing himself in a dark suit, the jokes feel good but nobody notices.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Like Donald pissing himself in a dark suit, the jokes feel good but nobody notices.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Paul Westerberg REALLY DOES have a song about everything
posted by pxe2000 at 5:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 5:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
STREEP spelled backwards is PEE RTs
posted by porn in the woods at 5:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 5:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
Reply to that tweet points out that once in the EU, you can move about freely without passport stamps. If he was anywhere in the Schengen zone on those dates, he could have been in Prague.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
peeotus just retweeted a photo of the cover of michael cohen's passport
Yup. Trump knows the one part of the report that indicates treason. Too bad Prague is within the Schengen Area.
Yeah. I've been to the Czech republic twice and my passport has no stamps from them. Not to mention, if you're rich, you can evade passport control relatively easily by, say, entering Europe via yacht in the mediterrenean.
posted by dis_integration at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yup. Trump knows the one part of the report that indicates treason. Too bad Prague is within the Schengen Area.
Yeah. I've been to the Czech republic twice and my passport has no stamps from them. Not to mention, if you're rich, you can evade passport control relatively easily by, say, entering Europe via yacht in the mediterrenean.
posted by dis_integration at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
The thing that gets me about Turmp is that there's no floor. Whatever fresh moral turpitude is alleged my mental reaction is "O of course I could see him doing exactly that" Is this how Clinton-haters feel all the time? I can't find an equilibrium. It feels like some massive force has flipped my world on its edge and set it spinning like a coin.
posted by um at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by um at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
I have to say, Donald may end up being his own worst enemy. He can't let anything go, even if he'd be better off keeping quiet.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
echoing great journalist cokie roberts, it doesn't much matter whether he did it or not because it's become part of the culture.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ronald Reagan supposedly negotiated with Iran to delay the release of hostages until he was elected. Nixon supposedly scuttled peace talks with North Vietnam so he himself could get elected. What exactly did Trump do before the election? Can it be explained in 10 words or less?
posted by My Dad at 5:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 5:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Tbh, I'm really relieved that the "sex scandal" stuff (so far) is with (ostensibly) consenting adults.
I don't consider the 13 year old who claimed Donald Trump raped her to be neither consenting nor an adult.
posted by mikelieman at 5:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't consider the 13 year old who claimed Donald Trump raped her to be neither consenting nor an adult.
posted by mikelieman at 5:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Michael Cohen has tweeted a photo of his passport cover while claiming he has never been to Prague in his life.
Czechoslovakia is part of the Schengen area. I've never been to Prague either, but I have been to Paris, and for all anyone knows I might have driven through Germany and into Czechoslovakia. It's going to be hard for Cohen to disprove this, and even a photo of the inside of his passport isn't really going to help.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Czechoslovakia is part of the Schengen area. I've never been to Prague either, but I have been to Paris, and for all anyone knows I might have driven through Germany and into Czechoslovakia. It's going to be hard for Cohen to disprove this, and even a photo of the inside of his passport isn't really going to help.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
What exactly did Trump do before the election? Can it be explained in 10 words or less?
he was blackmailed into becoming russia's manchurian candidate. eight words.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
he was blackmailed into becoming russia's manchurian candidate. eight words.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trump didn't do anything wrong. That's a basic principle, known as ex catheter.
posted by nickmark at 5:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by nickmark at 5:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Czechoslovakia
Guess the 80s really are back.
posted by dis_integration at 5:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Guess the 80s really are back.
posted by dis_integration at 5:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Micturian Candidate
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [62 favorites]
What exactly did Trump do before the election? Can it be explained in 10 words or less?
Accepted a Russian bailout in exchange for piss hookers. 9 words.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Accepted a Russian bailout in exchange for piss hookers. 9 words.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Maybe the U.S. passport photo is there to say "Most of our staff usually travels on their Russian passports"
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Lawfare: About that Explosive Trump Story: Take a Deep Breath
Second, while unproven, the allegations are being taken quite seriously. The President and President-elect do not get briefed on material that the intelligence community does not believe to be at least of some credibility. The individual who generated them is apparently a person whose work intelligence professionals take seriously. And at a personal level, we can attest that we have had a lot of conversations with a lot of different people about the material in this document. While nobody has confirmed any of the allegations, both inside government and in the press, it is clear to us that they are the subject of serious attention.[...]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
Fourth, it is significant that the document contains highly specific allegations, many of which are the kind of facts it should be possible to prove or disprove. This is a document about meetings that either took place or did not take place, stays in hotels that either happened or didn’t, travel that either happened or did not happen. It should be possible to know whether at least some of these allegations are true or false.
Traded promises to stay out of Ukraine for wikileaks documents. Ten words.
posted by donatella at 5:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by donatella at 5:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Can it be explained in 10 words or less?
He traded foreign policy promises for hacked DNC communications.
posted by contraption at 5:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
He traded foreign policy promises for hacked DNC communications.
posted by contraption at 5:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Czechoslovakia ceased to exist in 1993.
Still, the US Government certainly knows whether Cohen flew in/out of the country around the relevant dates and would have the full itinerary if he booked a flight that went to Prague.
posted by zachlipton at 5:52 PM on January 10, 2017
Still, the US Government certainly knows whether Cohen flew in/out of the country around the relevant dates and would have the full itinerary if he booked a flight that went to Prague.
posted by zachlipton at 5:52 PM on January 10, 2017
It's going to be hard for Cohen to disprove this, and even a photo of the inside of his passport isn't really going to help.
Especially if it doesn't include the issue date. That one looks pretty damn new.
posted by Etrigan at 5:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Especially if it doesn't include the issue date. That one looks pretty damn new.
posted by Etrigan at 5:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can it be explained in 10 words or less?
Directly paid Eastern European hackers targeting DNC and Hillary. Allegedly.
posted by figurant at 5:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Directly paid Eastern European hackers targeting DNC and Hillary. Allegedly.
posted by figurant at 5:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
-- Sir John Harington
posted by Devonian at 5:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
-- Sir John Harington
posted by Devonian at 5:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Another good point in that Lawfare article:
So while people are being delicate about discussing wholly unproven allegations, the document is at the front of everyone’s minds as they ponder the question: Why is Trump so insistent about vindicating Russia from the hacking charges that everyone else seems to accept?
posted by diogenes at 5:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
So while people are being delicate about discussing wholly unproven allegations, the document is at the front of everyone’s minds as they ponder the question: Why is Trump so insistent about vindicating Russia from the hacking charges that everyone else seems to accept?
posted by diogenes at 5:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
FBI chief given dossier by John McCain alleging secret Trump-Russia contacts
The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.posted by scalefree at 5:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
@elainaplott I ask Cohen what the passport image in itself is meant to prove. "I'm in a meeting," he says. "Have a good day."
In other words, "It means jack shit but I panicked."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
In other words, "It means jack shit but I panicked."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
Actually, when you phrase it like that, with the whole "eastern european" cache, it makes trump look a lot more Jason Bourne than I'm comfortable with. I prefer to think of him more as "9:00 pm, just after Duck Dynasty!"
posted by valkane at 5:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 5:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Second, while unproven, the allegations are being taken quite seriously.
By whom? I'm not sure there's anyone left that counts that's going to touch them.
posted by Artw at 5:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
By whom? I'm not sure there's anyone left that counts that's going to touch them.
posted by Artw at 5:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Patton Oswalt (pattonoswalt)
Is Trump's press conference tomorrow only on TV or is it live streaming?HIYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
posted by diogenes at 5:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [39 favorites]
Is Trump's press conference tomorrow only on TV or is it live streaming?HIYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
posted by diogenes at 5:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [39 favorites]
I, for one, will be watching from under my own vine and fig tree.
posted by zachlipton at 5:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Again, Alex Jones and so many other conspiracy theorists who drove themselves into a froth over imaginary things like black helicopters and chemtrails firmly allying themselves with someone behind a very real and very dangerous conspiracy is incredibly, bitterly ironic.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
Accepted a Russian bailout in exchange for piss hookers. 9 words.
Yeah, but the details this "dossier" are almost impossible to corroborate. Indeed, the hype the has built up today just serves to inoculate the Trump presidency against any future leaks from Russia (if they exist).
No one knows what is real and what is fake now. Which seems to have been the point of Russian monkey-business in 2016 in the first place.
Sad!
posted by My Dad at 6:00 PM on January 10, 2017
Yeah, but the details this "dossier" are almost impossible to corroborate. Indeed, the hype the has built up today just serves to inoculate the Trump presidency against any future leaks from Russia (if they exist).
No one knows what is real and what is fake now. Which seems to have been the point of Russian monkey-business in 2016 in the first place.
Sad!
posted by My Dad at 6:00 PM on January 10, 2017
Let's see if I can get through Obama's speech without tearing up a bit.
posted by octothorpe at 6:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
This whole passport thing reminds me that I started to renew mine but still have to finish the application. Consider this your reminder that whatever your plans right now, you should have current passports for yourselves and your family (including little kids!)
posted by contraption at 6:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by contraption at 6:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
If this is the Obama speech thread, please be mindful if liveblogging that not everyone is watching and context is helpful!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's reminding me that hopefully my first Canadian passport will be on its way here very soon.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump is countering the claims by tweeting a link to the highly credible Lifezette.com [real]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017
Josh Marshall has A Few Thoughts On the Big Story
posted by zachlipton at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lifezette is owned by Laura Ingraham.
posted by cell divide at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 6:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
In case anyone wasn't teary enough already, here's a reminder of One Last Time with Chris Jackson and Lin-Manuel Miranda at the White House...
posted by TwoStride at 6:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
The crowd is shouting "four more years"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Very loud "Four more years!" chant from the crowd; an "I can't do that" in response from Obama. [TwoStride sobs]
posted by TwoStride at 6:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Too late for the republicans to change candidates in ...uh. ...midstream.
posted by freecellwizard at 6:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 6:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Are we ever going to hear the words Selma and Stonewall from a president again? I hope so.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Obama declaring a new galactic empire. [fake]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, man, Obama is just astonishingly, staggeringly good at this.
I mean.. of course, he is, he HAD to be, in a way that no other president has had to be.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
I mean.. of course, he is, he HAD to be, in a way that no other president has had to be.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
"For every two steps forward, it often feels like we take one step back. But the long sweep of America has been defined by forward motion."
posted by zachlipton at 6:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
The echo is a clever touch, given the yawning abyss we're teetering on.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
Hell, we might not hear a president say "you" or "we" for a few more years.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 6:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Obama declaring peace in our time. [kind of fake, but not fake enough]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:13 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by entropicamericana at 6:13 PM on January 10, 2017
I'm not so sure that we're currently "the most respected nation on earth."
posted by diogenes at 6:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hearing the words, "President Trump" come out of his mouth was like a kick to the gut.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
"That potential will only be realized if our democracy works, only if our politics represents the decency of our people....That's what I want to focus on tonight. The state of our democracy."
"But they [the founders] knew that democracy does require a basic sense of solidarity. The idea that for all our outward differences, we're all in this together. That we rise or fall as one. There have been moments throughout our history that threatened this solidarity and the beginning of this century is one of those times."
posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
"But they [the founders] knew that democracy does require a basic sense of solidarity. The idea that for all our outward differences, we're all in this together. That we rise or fall as one. There have been moments throughout our history that threatened this solidarity and the beginning of this century is one of those times."
posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wikileaks says the report isn't credible. I guess that's that.
35 page PDF published by Buzzfeed on Trump is not an intelligence report. Style, facts & dates show no credibility.
posted by diogenes at 6:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
35 page PDF published by Buzzfeed on Trump is not an intelligence report. Style, facts & dates show no credibility.
posted by diogenes at 6:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hmm.
@JamesSurowiecki
Amazing. FISA court turned down 12 warrant requests, total, out of 38,000 between 1979 and 2015. But this one it rejected.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
@JamesSurowiecki
Amazing. FISA court turned down 12 warrant requests, total, out of 38,000 between 1979 and 2015. But this one it rejected.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:17 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
Yeah, I don't believe Wikileaks.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wikileaks, a Russian front group, says....
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
@juliebosman says the earlier interruption from the crowd was about pardons.
posted by zebra at 6:19 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by zebra at 6:19 PM on January 10, 2017
I mean, the flip side of what happened to Hillary Clinton is now happening to Trump. People aren't even going to care if it's True. It will be true in a lot of people's minds forever.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:19 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:19 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Remember when wikileaks was like a cool cyberpunk bastion of truth? Good times.
posted by valkane at 6:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by valkane at 6:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
@juliebosman says the earlier interruption from the crowd was about pardons.
...or perhaps about undocumented residents? Dunno.
posted by zebra at 6:21 PM on January 10, 2017
...or perhaps about undocumented residents? Dunno.
posted by zebra at 6:21 PM on January 10, 2017
Nice...he's going full Eisenhower.
posted by uosuaq at 6:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Obama's speech is depressing me. Not because he's wrong but because he's entirely right and we're about to lose four years or more while the 1% loot the rest of the country as best they can.
posted by Talez at 6:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Transgender." Another word we might not hear, expect in the contact of laws against transgender people.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
OMG my power went out up in the thread just before the Donald Russia sex thing was posted.
I just logged back on and saw the amount of new posts and though 'Hmm did something happen?'
*Jalliah reads thread*
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no no no no
posted by Jalliah at 6:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Remember when wikileaks was like a cool cyberpunk bastion of truth? Good times.
Hell, I'm so old I remember when Julian was just another faceless name on IRC. We called him Proff.
posted by scalefree at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Hell, I'm so old I remember when Julian was just another faceless name on IRC. We called him Proff.
posted by scalefree at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
"The effects of slavery and Jim Crow didn't just vanish in the 60s." How shameful is it that this is a courageous point to make in 2017.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [46 favorites]
I'm going to miss Obama so badly.
posted by Talez at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
US Government certainly knows whether Cohen flew in/out of the country around the relevant dates and would have the full itinerary if he booked a flight that went to Prague.
the assistant who books his travel could probably use a million dollars; it's just a few receipts...
posted by j_curiouser at 6:26 PM on January 10, 2017
the assistant who books his travel could probably use a million dollars; it's just a few receipts...
posted by j_curiouser at 6:26 PM on January 10, 2017
I can't even watch the speech. Much like how I can't read the last Discworld book. I just want there to always be one more speech from President Obama.
posted by Ruki at 6:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 6:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Without some common baseline of facts, without a willingness to receive new information and concede that your opponent may be making a fair point, without science....we're going to keep talking past each other."
posted by zachlipton at 6:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:29 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Can anybody imagine Trump delivering this, or any, meaningful speech? Instead of instructive points and considered rhetoric, we get, what, baseless boasting and baffling personal attacks on political enemies?
Ugh.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ugh.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:30 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can anybody imaging Trump delivering this, or any, meaningful speech?
FAKE NEWS - A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
FAKE NEWS - A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I guess we'll see.
posted by valkane at 6:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 6:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Incredible, Obama walked out on stage and began peeing on the presidential seal, a remarkable final act
posted by My Dad at 6:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 6:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I sometimes think Obama is going to be remembered like the Antonine Emperors of Rome. With the empire just past the peak of its size and power, and facing serious and chronic economic and political instability, there came that brief period of an attempt at principled, thoughtful leadership. Even then it remained a cruel, undemocratic, unegalitarian and fundamentally ungovernable system. After the Antonines, of course, came a succession of sociopaths and generals and the protracted decline and fragmentation of the empire.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [51 favorites]
HORATIO I saw him once; he was a goodly king.
HAMLET He was a man, take him for all in all, I shall not look upon his like again.
posted by scalefree at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [59 favorites]
HAMLET He was a man, take him for all in all, I shall not look upon his like again.
posted by scalefree at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [59 favorites]
Bill Nye is in the audience!
posted by octothorpe at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
'how do we excuse ethical lapses in our own party but pounce when the other party does the same thing?'
We should ALWAYS ALWAYS be asking this.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
We should ALWAYS ALWAYS be asking this.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:38 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Let's be vigilant, but not afraid"
"All of us, regardless of party, should be throwing ourselves into the task of rebuilding our democratic institutions...we should be making it easier, not harder to vote. When trust in our institutions is low, we should reduce the corrosive influence of money in our politics...When Congress is dysfunctional, we should draw our Congressional districts to encourage politicians to cater to common sense and not rigid extremes. But remember, none of this happens alone. All of this depends on our participation."
Did the crowd really just do the "my last point [awwwww]" thing? Because I'm not sure I've ever heard that outside a sitcom.
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
"All of us, regardless of party, should be throwing ourselves into the task of rebuilding our democratic institutions...we should be making it easier, not harder to vote. When trust in our institutions is low, we should reduce the corrosive influence of money in our politics...When Congress is dysfunctional, we should draw our Congressional districts to encourage politicians to cater to common sense and not rigid extremes. But remember, none of this happens alone. All of this depends on our participation."
Did the crowd really just do the "my last point [awwwww]" thing? Because I'm not sure I've ever heard that outside a sitcom.
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is why Trump can never be successfully prosecuted in New York:
N.Y. Const Article I § 1
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
N.Y. Const Article I § 1
No member of this state shall be disfranchised, or deprived of any of the rights or privileges secured to any citizen thereof, unless by the law of the land, or the judgment of his or her pee-rs [...][hyphen added]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
'how do we excuse ethical lapses in our own party but pounce when the other party does the same thing?'
If you're a republican, you just don't lead 'em so much.
posted by mrgoat at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you're a republican, you just don't lead 'em so much.
posted by mrgoat at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have a lot of friends from law school who went into the federal government as Presidential Management Fellows in 2009, and one who worked in the White House Counsel's office. My facebook feed is not a happy place during this speech.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I understand the point is the blackmail, but I have kind of a hard time understanding why Donald Trump would even be so mortified if anyone knew he had hired prostitutes to piss on him. Like, that's it? That's your kompromat? After how completely shameless he's been about, e.g., sexual assault? I mean, I can't imagine the prostitution allegations would have actually hurt him with his base (or been at all surprising), given everything else that's come out this campaign cycle. And for the rest of it, ffs, just take a trip to Dore Alley and you'll see more advanced kink on your way to fuckin coat check.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Michael Cohen says he was visiting USC with his son in Aug & only trip to Europe this summer was to Italy in July.
posted by diogenes at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh shit he just called me out
"if you're tired of arguing with strangers on the internet..."
posted by entropicamericana at 6:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
"if you're tired of arguing with strangers on the internet..."
posted by entropicamericana at 6:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
"If you're tired of arguing with strangers on the internet, try talking with one of them in real life."
posted by zachlipton at 6:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Worse, some people will have to explain to their parents.
My father passed away on Dec 30 (he was 89, it was expected after a recent decline), but he got to vote for HRC, which he wanted to do. I'm ... grateful I don't have to explain any of this to him.
Yep. Just had to do exactly this.
Dad reads his facebook: "I don't get this. What is a golden shower?"
posted by Jalliah at 6:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
My father passed away on Dec 30 (he was 89, it was expected after a recent decline), but he got to vote for HRC, which he wanted to do. I'm ... grateful I don't have to explain any of this to him.
Yep. Just had to do exactly this.
Dad reads his facebook: "I don't get this. What is a golden shower?"
posted by Jalliah at 6:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I guess the kompromat is no use now and they'll have to call the Ukraine invasion off.
/kidding
posted by Artw at 6:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
/kidding
posted by Artw at 6:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
ffs congress just subpoena his tax returns, Republicans can do it under cover of "I'm sure there's nothing to hide so let's settle this once and for all" and they get Pence after who can hold a rubber stamp even better than Trump.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Just to be clear, no one is alleging Trump had sex workers urinate on him. According to the document released by BuzzFeed, Trump "defiled the bed where [the Obamas] had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a 'golden shower' (urination) show in front of him."
posted by zebra at 6:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zebra at 6:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Michael Cohen says he was visiting USC with his son in Aug & only trip to Europe this summer was to Italy in July.
He spent a whole month visiting a college with his son? So maybe he met with them in July and not August?
posted by dis_integration at 6:47 PM on January 10, 2017
He spent a whole month visiting a college with his son? So maybe he met with them in July and not August?
posted by dis_integration at 6:47 PM on January 10, 2017
Man, I managed to stave off tears until his tribute to Michelle, his "best friend of 25 years": "you have made the country proud."
posted by TwoStride at 6:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
OK. I lost it at "Michelle." I am not ashamed of this in the least. And I completely broke down when the President continued his accolade. I am so, so sorry his terms are ending, but the whole family did so well and deserves a rest.
posted by Silverstone at 6:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Silverstone at 6:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
Golden showers
Fill your eyes
Spies await you when you rise
Pee pretty darling
Do not cry
And I will sing a lullaby
posted by kirkaracha at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Fill your eyes
Spies await you when you rise
Pee pretty darling
Do not cry
And I will sing a lullaby
posted by kirkaracha at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Barack Obama is openly crying. Joe Biden did a wink-finger gun. This is really nice to watch.
posted by theraflu at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by theraflu at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
And now his tribute to Biden, with some teary finger-guns from Diamond Joe in return.
posted by TwoStride at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Just to be clear, no one is alleging Trump had sex workers urinate on him.
Seriously. Splashes only count in hand grenades and atomic bombs.
posted by valkane at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seriously. Splashes only count in hand grenades and atomic bombs.
posted by valkane at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
The hookers aren't the kompromat, just the salacious detail. The real leverage is with the money. Why did the Russian's pay for a hooker show in the first place? It was during his trip to discuss accepting Russian backed bailouts disguised as real estate deals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Joe Biden: [softly, while blinking back tears] I love you, B. [real (i want to believe)]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I read this thread backwards for like 300 comments to get to where the pee news broke
The hookers peed on Obama's bed? That's what "~*allegedly*~" happened?
That's sad and small in a way that golden showers aren't
I mean it's 2017 we ain't shaming kinks that don't hurt people right
But that
Man
That's so fucken small time
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [46 favorites]
The hookers peed on Obama's bed? That's what "~*allegedly*~" happened?
That's sad and small in a way that golden showers aren't
I mean it's 2017 we ain't shaming kinks that don't hurt people right
But that
Man
That's so fucken small time
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [46 favorites]
Just to be clear, no one is alleging Trump had sex workers urinate on him.
This is true. But in celebrity scandal world, the last seven words of that sentence are all people hear. And Trump's whole context is celebrity.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is true. But in celebrity scandal world, the last seven words of that sentence are all people hear. And Trump's whole context is celebrity.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Where's Sascha? Did they not let her ditch school?
posted by TwoStride at 6:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
"I do have one final ask of you...I'm asking you to believe not in my ability to bring about change but in yours....Yes we can. Yes we did. Yes we can. Thank you. God bless you. May God continue to bless the United States of America."
And now the hugs.
posted by zachlipton at 6:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
And now the hugs.
posted by zachlipton at 6:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Where's Sasha?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:56 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:56 PM on January 10, 2017
OK, I held it together until Obama and Biden hugged.
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
George Takei tweet - Tinkle, tinkle, little czar. Putin put you where you are.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [112 favorites]
posted by hilaryjade at 6:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [112 favorites]
That's so fucken small time
But it's so shockingly plausible. It's 100% in character and not at all hard to reconcile with everything we know about the soon to be Pissant in Chief.
posted by dis_integration at 6:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
But it's so shockingly plausible. It's 100% in character and not at all hard to reconcile with everything we know about the soon to be Pissant in Chief.
posted by dis_integration at 6:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [28 favorites]
I do think the biggest cheers of the night were for not hating Muslims and for Joe Biden.
posted by zachlipton at 6:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
obama's still gonna adopt joe tho rite?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
And that was the last time we will hear an intelligent, compassionate and genuine speech from our President for at least four years.
Back into the coming darkness.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Back into the coming darkness.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Did you see the little dance that Obama and Michelle did just as they disappeared off stage? We may be sad to see them go but I'm pretty sure that they're happy to be getting out of there.
posted by octothorpe at 7:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
And now, the highlight of any presidential address: call-in commentary on C-SPAN!
posted by zebra at 7:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zebra at 7:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mr. President, after your well deserved vacation, could you come back with a beard? It worked to make TNG and DS9 better, it's worth trying to see if it works for America.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [30 favorites]
Joshua Dubois: What the President secretly did at Sandy Hook Elementary School
The president took a deep breath and steeled himself, and went into the first classroom. And what happened next I’ll never forget.posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [150 favorites]
Person after person received an engulfing hug from our commander in chief. He’d say, “Tell me about your son. . . . Tell me about your daughter,” and then hold pictures of the lost beloved as their parents described favorite foods, television shows, and the sound of their laughter. For the younger siblings of those who had passed away—many of them two, three, or four years old, too young to understand it all—the president would grab them and toss them, laughing, up into the air, and then hand them a box of White House M&M’s, which were always kept close at hand. In each room, I saw his eyes water, but he did not break.
And then the entire scene would repeat—for hours. Over and over and over again, through well over a hundred relatives of the fallen, each one equally broken, wrecked by the loss. After each classroom, we would go back into those fluorescent hallways and walk through the names of the coming families, and then the president would dive back in, like a soldier returning to a tour of duty in a worthy but wearing war. We spent what felt like a lifetime in those classrooms, and every single person received the same tender treatment. The same hugs. The same looks, directly in their eyes. The same sincere offer of support and prayer.
Josh Marshall on Twitter:
Under almost any interpretation of the facts, the country enters this new presidency in a very fucked up and possibly fucked state.
posted by diogenes at 7:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Under almost any interpretation of the facts, the country enters this new presidency in a very fucked up and possibly fucked state.
posted by diogenes at 7:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Thanks for that link, zachlipton. Now I've moved from crying to ugly-crying.
posted by TwoStride at 7:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoStride at 7:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mr. President, after your well deserved vacation, could you come back with a beard? It worked to make TNG and DS9 better, it's worth trying to see if it works for America.
Obama should pull a Sisko and leave his baseball on the desk in the oval office.
posted by drezdn at 7:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Back into the coming darkness"
I can't tell if the first word in this sentence is meant as a verb or an adverb. Either way, I guess. *sob*
posted by _Mona_ at 7:06 PM on January 10, 2017
I can't tell if the first word in this sentence is meant as a verb or an adverb. Either way, I guess. *sob*
posted by _Mona_ at 7:06 PM on January 10, 2017
This is a decent summary of the real blackmail.
posted by scalefree at 7:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Adverb. Face it squarely, open-eyed.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:08 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Totally random, as I'm watching Obama hug-and-kiss with the crowd: remember the time there was a shitstorm because Obama called a woman "sweetie"? And now... the pussy-grabber-elect. Rage-spair, rage-spair all the time as I contemplate the election.
posted by TwoStride at 7:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 7:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to go to sleep, but I know if I do, I'll never catch up with this thread again.
posted by diogenes at 7:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:10 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
I will always treasure getting to see Michelle Obama speak here last summer, and especially getting a hug from her.
That was back before we knew what darkness the future held.
Now it's our turn to be the light in the darkness.
posted by Superplin at 7:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
That was back before we knew what darkness the future held.
Now it's our turn to be the light in the darkness.
posted by Superplin at 7:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
CBC: ‘We may just have to kick somebody’s ass’ over painting removal
A spat between black lawmakers and Republicans over a painting on display in the Capitol got uglier Tuesday after multiple GOP lawmakers removed the painting for the second time in a week — and the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus suggested supporters of displaying the painting "may just have to kick somebody's ass."
The painting, by a high school student from the district that encompasses Ferguson, Mo., addresses strife that erupted between African-Americans and police after the death of Michael Brown. It shows police officers with animal heads and faces pointing guns at black citizens. A sign in the background reads "racism kills." It was selected as part of a competition that displays art projects in the Capitol.
posted by futz at 7:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
A spat between black lawmakers and Republicans over a painting on display in the Capitol got uglier Tuesday after multiple GOP lawmakers removed the painting for the second time in a week — and the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus suggested supporters of displaying the painting "may just have to kick somebody's ass."
The painting, by a high school student from the district that encompasses Ferguson, Mo., addresses strife that erupted between African-Americans and police after the death of Michael Brown. It shows police officers with animal heads and faces pointing guns at black citizens. A sign in the background reads "racism kills." It was selected as part of a competition that displays art projects in the Capitol.
posted by futz at 7:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
The song they used to play him off. So appropriate.
posted by scalefree at 7:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Shane! Come back!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 7:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
In 2008, I watched Obama's victory speech with a man I had just started dating. Tonight, I watched his farewell with the [same] man I'm about to marry.
I don't have anything poignant to say other than I am glad to have him along side me for what's next.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
I don't have anything poignant to say other than I am glad to have him along side me for what's next.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [40 favorites]
Here's a happy little laugh to lighten the mood a bit.
posted by scalefree at 7:15 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by scalefree at 7:15 PM on January 10, 2017
So you remember how Andrew Puzder, nominee for Secretary of Labor, was accused of domestic violence in the '80s? The story gets stranger: Ex-wife of Labor nominee leveled abuse claims on 'Oprah'
posted by zachlipton at 7:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
The ex-wife of President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee to be labor secretary, Andrew Puzder, appeared in disguise on “The Oprah Winfrey Show” as a victim of domestic violence, after having accused him multiple times of physically assaulting her in the 1980s, according to two friends of hers and a spokesman for the former couple.She has since retracted her allegations and now claims she made them up as part of her divorce. Of course, appearing on Oprah with a fake name and a disguise would not really seem to be part of such a legal strategy.
...
Fierstein appeared on the show in a wig and glasses, and was identified only by the made-up name of Ann. Multiple sources, including George Thompson, a spokesman for Puzder and Fierstein, confirmed the appearance. Fierstein did not mention Puzder by name, but a friend of hers who previously worked for her told POLITICO that Fierstein made clear to her that the allegations she made on the program concerned Puzder. Winfrey’s company said it could not locate a tape of the episode.
posted by zachlipton at 7:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
So I think that regardless of what the US decides to do about the Russia the stuff this pretty much is like a bomb going off destroying Donald and this admins credibility on the international scene.
How are people going to trust their motivations? He's been permanently compromised by this. There will always be the question of Russia's connection to whatever the admin is doing. You don't need absolute proof for this to occur.
It's quite astounding to think about really. How something like this can change so much and so quickly.
I've also been pondering in general how Donald's idiot tweeting is going to put a severe kybosh on people telling him important information. He can't be trusted. It will no doubt have a chilling effect on relations and the flow of information between the US and other countries.
Oh and the pee thing. Just in writing this comment I changed a couple of things because they looked like pee jokes. Then I noticed I wrote 'flow' and couldn't help but giggle even though it wasn't on purpose. Then I realized that this is what this kind of thing does, it just undermines him, makes him into joke (or even more of one) and adds to people not taking or not feeling like taking him seriously.
Interesting times I guess.
posted by Jalliah at 7:22 PM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
Everyone is asking where Sasha is. She's here comforting our crying friends.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:23 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
He was a good president.
posted by valkane at 7:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
My child knows better than to look up to Trump.
We don't watch the news on TV mostly because I don't want to explain things like this to him; he'll hear about them eventually but I'd rather he have as much kid obliviousness as I can give him for now.
posted by emjaybee at 7:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
We don't watch the news on TV mostly because I don't want to explain things like this to him; he'll hear about them eventually but I'd rather he have as much kid obliviousness as I can give him for now.
posted by emjaybee at 7:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Marcus Aurelius published diaries of him wondering whether he was a good and decent person, as he was fighting bloody and nasty wars and trying to humanely manage a slave empire. Then he allowed his spoiled narcissist son to become emperor, which was so disastrous that his guards conspired to have his wrestling partner drown him in the bathtub.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:33 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
It'll be very interesting to see how Trump's narcissism forces him to lash out & punish various people he blames for this. It's a massive blow to his fragile ego & constant sense of inadequacy. The ultimate social climber who has to face all those people laughing at him. That last time that happened he decided to run for President just to get back at them. What'll it be this time? I predict Hillary will be the one he holds responsible & he'll start putting investigation gears in motion. The greater the humiliation, the greater the vengeance required to satisfy the narcissism & prove his dominance.
posted by scalefree at 7:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
He was the best president any of us are likely to live to see. That speaks to the limitations of the American presidency - he is no Salvador Allende - but he could have been a crony-politics exploiter and a sleaze like most of them, would have been rewarded for being that way and chose not to. It was nice to have a president who was a good man with flaws rather than an orange toad with a nazi entourage. It was nice to believe, for a little while, that even though this wasn't a "post racial" country, it was a country that could finally, finally begin to resolve slavery's poison legacy.
posted by Frowner at 7:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 7:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
Trump's casinos lost shit-tons when everybody else was making shit-tons. Suddenly the only people willing to invest are Russian. Investors later sue him for $250m claiming he's laundering Russian money. He settles to avoid any disclosure. Later, the US Treasury fines Trump's casinos $10 million for "significant, long standing anti-money laundering violations", the largest fine in history against a casino.
Further to that, here is a series of Tweets from John Schindler @20committee that outlines the Mafiya side of this story: Trump, the Russian Mob, and the FSB—The Trump Organization and Semyon Mogilevich. This adds Russian organized crime to Trump’s Russian connections over the past three decades.
In my personal correspondence for the past several months, I've been saying this is like the first draft of a John le Carré novel before he goes back to edit for plausibility and clarity.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Further to that, here is a series of Tweets from John Schindler @20committee that outlines the Mafiya side of this story: Trump, the Russian Mob, and the FSB—The Trump Organization and Semyon Mogilevich. This adds Russian organized crime to Trump’s Russian connections over the past three decades.
In my personal correspondence for the past several months, I've been saying this is like the first draft of a John le Carré novel before he goes back to edit for plausibility and clarity.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
In 2008, I watched Obama's victory speech with a man I had just started dating. Tonight, I watched his farewell with the [same] man I'm about to marry.
I don't have anything poignant to say other than I am glad to have him along side me for what's next.
In 2008, I lost my job as a direct result of the financial crisis (yes, it had an impact up here in Canada), and my husband had been out of work for a few months at that point already and was looking for work, too.
In January of 2009, after over three months of searching, I landed a job. The day of Obama's inauguration, I was sitting in front of the TV signing my new employment agreement. I got to fist-pump as I watched Marine One fly W. away from the White House for the last time, and then go and drop off the paperwork that would provide us with an actual means to pay our rent without having to scrounge some more debt to keep it keepin' on for another month.
That was a good day.
I don't have any illusions about what Obama's presidency did and didn't accomplish, but I can respect it in important regards while condemning it in others, and I can respect him as a statesman. But look, I'll be happily pandered to by him and his speechwriters any day.
So I really don't want to see Marine One fly out this time. That won't be a good day.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't have anything poignant to say other than I am glad to have him along side me for what's next.
In 2008, I lost my job as a direct result of the financial crisis (yes, it had an impact up here in Canada), and my husband had been out of work for a few months at that point already and was looking for work, too.
In January of 2009, after over three months of searching, I landed a job. The day of Obama's inauguration, I was sitting in front of the TV signing my new employment agreement. I got to fist-pump as I watched Marine One fly W. away from the White House for the last time, and then go and drop off the paperwork that would provide us with an actual means to pay our rent without having to scrounge some more debt to keep it keepin' on for another month.
That was a good day.
I don't have any illusions about what Obama's presidency did and didn't accomplish, but I can respect it in important regards while condemning it in others, and I can respect him as a statesman. But look, I'll be happily pandered to by him and his speechwriters any day.
So I really don't want to see Marine One fly out this time. That won't be a good day.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:35 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
In 2008, I watched Obama's victory speech with a man I had just started dating. Tonight, I watched his farewell with the [same] man I'm about to marry.
On Election Day 2008, my wife and I were expecting our first child (due in May), but hadn't yet told most folks. We chose not to find out the sex before the birth, which meant that on Inauguration Day 2009, we still didn't know. That evening, as we re-watched the inauguration, my wife turned to me and said, "I hope our baby is black so it can grow up to be President."
That wish didn't come true; our daughter turned out just as white as you'd expect from looking at the two of us.
But she does plan to be President.
posted by nickmark at 7:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
On Election Day 2008, my wife and I were expecting our first child (due in May), but hadn't yet told most folks. We chose not to find out the sex before the birth, which meant that on Inauguration Day 2009, we still didn't know. That evening, as we re-watched the inauguration, my wife turned to me and said, "I hope our baby is black so it can grow up to be President."
That wish didn't come true; our daughter turned out just as white as you'd expect from looking at the two of us.
But she does plan to be President.
posted by nickmark at 7:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [20 favorites]
i don't know, but as long as i'm quoting poets, this seems relevant -
with mother finally ******, and the last fantastic book flung out of the tenement window, and the last door closed at 4. A.M. and the last telephone slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied down to the last piece of mental furniture, a yellow paper rose twisted on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that imaginary, nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination
- allen ginsberg
posted by pyramid termite at 7:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
with mother finally ******, and the last fantastic book flung out of the tenement window, and the last door closed at 4. A.M. and the last telephone slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied down to the last piece of mental furniture, a yellow paper rose twisted on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that imaginary, nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination
- allen ginsberg
posted by pyramid termite at 7:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well today was a doozy of a day to spend on a plane with no internet.
But I have no doubt that Trump would see peeing on his rival's property as some sort of alpha-make dominance display. His inauguration speech is just going to be him beating off while staring down the camera, isn't it.
posted by bibliowench at 7:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
But I have no doubt that Trump would see peeing on his rival's property as some sort of alpha-make dominance display. His inauguration speech is just going to be him beating off while staring down the camera, isn't it.
posted by bibliowench at 7:43 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Marc Ambinder on Twitter just now.
On Trump: the IC did not just summarize that dossier; their "synopsis" was summary of everything they've learned about Ru compromise effortsposted by scalefree at 7:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
... the existence of the 35-page unverified dossier was mentioned in the synopsis; it wasn't the entirety (or even the bulk) of their info.
I have no idea whether the 35-page dossier is, resembles, or is a derivative product of a @4chan fiction.
The IC has different independent sources, with varying degrees of reliability, on a variety of efforts to compromise Trump and the RNC
My info: from two US officials, one Congressional and one intel official.
I'm pretty sure they wash the sheets in the presidential suite between visits.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 7:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure they wash the sheets in the presidential suite between visits.
Do they repeal and replace the pee mattress though? Deep fry it? What about the mattress?!!
posted by futz at 7:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do they repeal and replace the pee mattress though? Deep fry it? What about the mattress?!!
posted by futz at 7:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I do think there's a fairly decent chance much of the 35 page set of memos is fanfiction. I also think that there's a whole lot more smoke with Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Michael Flynn, Trump's Russian finance connections, etc... than there ever was about anything they didn't hesitate one moment to print about Clinton.
posted by zachlipton at 7:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure they wash the sheets in the presidential suite between visits.
It's a good thing Trump doesn't run a hotel business or something, where a lasting association with soiled linens might be detrimental.
posted by bibliowench at 7:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's a good thing Trump doesn't run a hotel business or something, where a lasting association with soiled linens might be detrimental.
posted by bibliowench at 7:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [31 favorites]
In 2008, I lost my job as a direct result of the financial crisis
Me too; the day before the election my company lost its revolving line of credit that it used for payroll and laid off half the employees. I was actually on a vacation day out doing last minute canvassing for the Obama campaign when my boss called me with the bad news. It was a scary time.
posted by octothorpe at 7:52 PM on January 10, 2017
Me too; the day before the election my company lost its revolving line of credit that it used for payroll and laid off half the employees. I was actually on a vacation day out doing last minute canvassing for the Obama campaign when my boss called me with the bad news. It was a scary time.
posted by octothorpe at 7:52 PM on January 10, 2017
Oh yes we got Trump, with a capital T and that rhymes with Pee and that stands for Putin.
posted by emjaybee at 7:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
I have not always agreed with Obama, in fact I rarely have. But I have to say that he has comported himself with the dignity of a President in a way we will weep to recall in the days to come.
posted by corb at 7:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [32 favorites]
I remain agnostic about the Russian story but one clear take away is Trump is in conflict with CIA. That will have big repercussions.
posted by My Dad at 7:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 7:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have no idea whether the 35-page dossier is, resembles, or is a derivative product of a @4chan fiction.
There are archived /pol/ threads from Oct./Nov. discussing the planting of a story that involved a sex tape and grew to involve Russian spies. There's not much more specific than that.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:56 PM on January 10, 2017
There are archived /pol/ threads from Oct./Nov. discussing the planting of a story that involved a sex tape and grew to involve Russian spies. There's not much more specific than that.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:56 PM on January 10, 2017
I am not not not suggesting that anyone do this, but water balloons filled with piss would be a fitting fanfare on the inauguration route.
posted by holgate at 8:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by holgate at 8:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
They're actually celebrating over at /pol/, but who knows what to believe? And therein lies the rub.
posted by valkane at 8:01 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by valkane at 8:01 PM on January 10, 2017
I was going to say that signs be adorned with golden streamers, but that works too I guess?
posted by Slackermagee at 8:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 8:02 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Whelp another Trump inspired conversation that I'd never imagine having with my 70+ old Dad.
Dad: The peeing thing is weird, even for Trump. I can't see him doing something like that.
Me: Well it may or may not be true but he's the a total vindictive type and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was.
Dad: But peeing on things? People do that? I just can't imagine it.
Me: Ever hear about people getting mad at someone and peeing on their toothbrush or dipping it in the toilet? Things like that?
Dad: *pause* Oh. *pause* One of my roommates did that in University.... (This was in the 60s)
Me: *interrupting because I don't really want to hear the actual story* Yes, exactly. People do pee on things...
Dad: ....
Me: I'm going to get my ice cream now.
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [35 favorites]
So is the press release on for tomorrow, or is he going to punk out?
I know he will punk out, he's a coward.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I know he will punk out, he's a coward.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I put my head down for a day and... This...
I am quite disoriented.
posted by Coventry at 8:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am quite disoriented.
posted by Coventry at 8:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
They're actually celebrating over at /pol/, but who knows what to believe? And therein lies the rub.
I'm out of this loop. Does /pol/ generally lean Donald? Or just general political messing around for lulz?
posted by Jalliah at 8:10 PM on January 10, 2017
I'm out of this loop. Does /pol/ generally lean Donald? Or just general political messing around for lulz?
posted by Jalliah at 8:10 PM on January 10, 2017
If you want to laugh at Assange bombing his AMA, Sarah Jeong is doing highlights on twitter.
posted by zachlipton at 8:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:12 PM on January 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm out of this loop. Does /pol/ generally lean Donald? Or just general political messing around for lulz?
/pol/ is the center of Donald Trump's actual consciousness
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
/pol/ is the center of Donald Trump's actual consciousness
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or just general political messing around for lulz?
Generally, if you're in it for the lulz, you're 100% behind Donald.
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 PM on January 10, 2017
Generally, if you're in it for the lulz, you're 100% behind Donald.
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 PM on January 10, 2017
They lean Donald, so those that think this story is that thing from /pol/ are happy because this Fake News discredits anti-Trump forces - it's seen as their success.
Meme war is real, maybe.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Meme war is real, maybe.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
The 4chan stuff is super desperate spin. Come on.
(I expect 4CHAN DID IT to be a right wing talking point/defense by tomorrow.)
posted by imabanana at 8:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
(I expect 4CHAN DID IT to be a right wing talking point/defense by tomorrow.)
posted by imabanana at 8:16 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
(I expect 4CHAN DID IT to be a right wing talking point/defense by tomorrow.)
It's already the party line in /r/the_donald. "Lol look at the librals bamboozled by 4chan." is like half the sub right now.
posted by dis_integration at 8:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's already the party line in /r/the_donald. "Lol look at the librals bamboozled by 4chan." is like half the sub right now.
posted by dis_integration at 8:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
The right wing doesn't mention 4chan, they only know CYBER!
posted by valkane at 8:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 8:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
4chan excuse is all over the place already with some pic that doesn't fit any of the dates whatsoever. this is going to be pizzagate entanglement/spinoff
posted by futz at 8:21 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by futz at 8:21 PM on January 10, 2017
/pol/ is the center of Donald Trump's actual consciousness
They lean Donald, so those that think this story is that thing from /pol/ are happy because this Fake News discredits anti-Trump forces - it's seen as their success.
It won't long term discredit anti-Trump forces though. This pee thing is, true or not is going to stick to him from now on. Also from what I read most of the briefing was not even connected with this most likely fake dossier thing. But this fake thing is going to make it more likely for people to want to push the Russia thing even more now.
They're celebrating? They're stupid if they think this is all good for Trump.
posted by Jalliah at 8:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
They lean Donald, so those that think this story is that thing from /pol/ are happy because this Fake News discredits anti-Trump forces - it's seen as their success.
It won't long term discredit anti-Trump forces though. This pee thing is, true or not is going to stick to him from now on. Also from what I read most of the briefing was not even connected with this most likely fake dossier thing. But this fake thing is going to make it more likely for people to want to push the Russia thing even more now.
They're celebrating? They're stupid if they think this is all good for Trump.
posted by Jalliah at 8:21 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm glad that Twitter also wants to know where Sasha was.
posted by TwoStride at 8:26 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by TwoStride at 8:26 PM on January 10, 2017
This pee thing is, true or not is going to stick to him from now on.
Who knew it would be piss that would finally stick to Teflon Trump?
It won't get rid of him or anything, but it won't go away and hopefully it will make the rest of his existence slightly more miserable and act as a reminder of his loyalties whenever he cheers on Putin.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Who knew it would be piss that would finally stick to Teflon Trump?
It won't get rid of him or anything, but it won't go away and hopefully it will make the rest of his existence slightly more miserable and act as a reminder of his loyalties whenever he cheers on Putin.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Democrats in Congress should start wearing yellow ties in protest.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:36 PM on January 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
Democrats on Congress should start wearing yellow ties in protest.
That's so petty; I love it. Every press conference, every speech. It's all yellow.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
That's so petty; I love it. Every press conference, every speech. It's all yellow.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [27 favorites]
It won't get rid of him or anything, but it won't go away and hopefully it will make the rest of his existence slightly more miserable and act as a reminder of his loyalties whenever he cheers on Putin.
We already know he's paranoid. So many words can sound like reference to pee. So many deniable words and phrases can sound like something to do with peeing. He could be seeing people slyly making pee jokes about him for the rest of his Presidency, even if they're not. And vice versa it will be so easy to do it on purpose.
If the pee part of this is something his own supporters made up (and they think it's awesome that they did it) that's some top grade schadenfreude fodder.
posted by Jalliah at 8:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
We already know he's paranoid. So many words can sound like reference to pee. So many deniable words and phrases can sound like something to do with peeing. He could be seeing people slyly making pee jokes about him for the rest of his Presidency, even if they're not. And vice versa it will be so easy to do it on purpose.
If the pee part of this is something his own supporters made up (and they think it's awesome that they did it) that's some top grade schadenfreude fodder.
posted by Jalliah at 8:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Senior Kasich strategist.
@JWGOP:
Required: Special Select Cttee (equal members between parties) of Congress; Special Prosecutor; Sanctions on steroids on Putin/Russia.
posted by chris24 at 8:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
@JWGOP:
Required: Special Select Cttee (equal members between parties) of Congress; Special Prosecutor; Sanctions on steroids on Putin/Russia.
posted by chris24 at 8:39 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mike! Mikey boy. This thing is looking so bad. Look, I'm going to need you to take a photo of your passport and post it on Twitter. You will post, OK? Prove you weren't in Prague.
posted by theodolite at 8:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:40 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I guess the question is if Michael Cohen is Zoolander level dumb or thinks everyone else is
posted by theodolite at 8:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm enjoying people tweeting Michael Cohen pictures of their feet and other non sequiters in response to his passport cover.
posted by gatorae at 8:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 8:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
Gavin Sheridan is tracking Cohen's geotags on Twitter, showing what seems like only a few plausible dates so far. "If Michael Cohen made it to Prague and back in August - it wouldn't have been easy. (All figures are *quick* tallies). He geotags lots." Doesn't make that element of the memo impossible, but it does tighten things up.
posted by maudlin at 8:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 8:48 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just realized the entire crew of SNL won't be getting any sleep until early Sunday morning. Thoughts & prayers.
posted by uosuaq at 8:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 8:49 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'm enjoying people tweeting Michael Cohen pictures of their feet and other non sequiters in response to his passport cover.
Yes, my favorite was someone's picture of their houseplant in the corner.
posted by TwoStride at 8:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yes, my favorite was someone's picture of their houseplant in the corner.
posted by TwoStride at 8:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
fwiw you can geotag tweets however you want. There's a text entry box and you can type Antarctica to amaze and impress your friends
posted by theodolite at 8:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Even if Cohen wasn't in Prague, make the fucker deny it by saying he was too busy intimidating all of the sexual assault victims. And once again, either Carter Page was cursed with a name that seems pulled from a spy novel or he chose it specifically for that reason.
posted by holgate at 8:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by holgate at 8:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Senior Kasich strategist ... blah blah blah.
I'm pretty tired of "Senior Kasich Strategist" making statements about Trump. Kasich is a quisling coward, afraid to make statements in his own name. Typical of the NeverTrumpers. Totally worthless and cowardly.
posted by JackFlash at 8:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm pretty tired of "Senior Kasich Strategist" making statements about Trump. Kasich is a quisling coward, afraid to make statements in his own name. Typical of the NeverTrumpers. Totally worthless and cowardly.
posted by JackFlash at 8:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah Geotagging ain't exactly proof of anything. I assume he wouldn't tweet out "At covert meeting with FSB agents." and geotag it "Staré Město pražské"
posted by dis_integration at 8:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 8:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Article from 2015: Benza later told Stern and Trump, “[Trump] used to call me when I was a columnist and say, ‘I was just in Russia, the girls have no morals, you gotta get out there.’ [Trump’s] out of his mind.”
Hmm.
posted by ymgve at 8:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Hmm.
posted by ymgve at 8:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Kasich is a quisling coward
He is. I put Weaver's role not to include Kasich in the Trump resistance, but to explain who the unknown-to-most senior GOP staffer is. Weaver is not a quisling. He's up there with Egg.
posted by chris24 at 8:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
He is. I put Weaver's role not to include Kasich in the Trump resistance, but to explain who the unknown-to-most senior GOP staffer is. Weaver is not a quisling. He's up there with Egg.
posted by chris24 at 8:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean, what's fucking galling is that America has a real life corporate villain take power, and it turns out that instead of being clever and devious like Lex Luthor, even his fucking capos are thick as pigshit.
posted by holgate at 9:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by holgate at 9:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm enjoying people tweeting Michael Cohen pictures of their feet and other non sequiters in response to his passport cover.
Thanks for pointing that out – wouldn't have known otherwise. The stream is hysterical!
Oh, and this tweet should win the internet.
posted by StrawberryPie at 9:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Thanks for pointing that out – wouldn't have known otherwise. The stream is hysterical!
Oh, and this tweet should win the internet.
posted by StrawberryPie at 9:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I know I should care more that parts of what came out tonight is based on some fake dossier thing but it's really hard when it looks like that this 'fake news' (but really it's just would be a fake allegations) that Donald and Co. now have to deal with bigly was potentially created by his very own supporters in attempt to discredit people. It's kinda awesome really.
This is so, so good on so many levels. Regardless if Buzzfeed has to eat crow on this. It's not going to matter because the subject matter is perfect for people just not caring that it is fake and just keep on treating it like it is true. It's like this bizzaro scenario of 'fake news' backfiring with the creators not even realizing how it backfired which is like making an unconconscious meta commentary about fake news.
posted by Jalliah at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Obama's farewell address (w/ help from Luther)
posted by entropicamericana at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Laura Ingraham assailing Obama's manliness for dabbing a tear away. "I've never seen a man do that."
She is such an awful person.
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
She is such an awful person.
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [36 favorites]
and it turns out that instead of being clever and devious like Lex Luthor, even his fucking capos are thick as pigshit.
Dumber than Ned Beatty's Otis?
posted by My Dad at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dumber than Ned Beatty's Otis?
posted by My Dad at 9:03 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dude, if you have something you think rank and file NeverTrump GOP organizers or citizens can be doing that would work better, I'm all ears.
Simple. Stop voting for Republican enablers. Vote for the Democrat. It's rather annoying to have incessant begging for affirmation while refusing to take the simplest step to do anything to make things better. Trump can't do anything without his enablers in Congress.
"Please, I'll do anything to fix the Trump Apocalypse, but don't ask me to do something actually meaningful like vote for a Democrat."
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [44 favorites]
Simple. Stop voting for Republican enablers. Vote for the Democrat. It's rather annoying to have incessant begging for affirmation while refusing to take the simplest step to do anything to make things better. Trump can't do anything without his enablers in Congress.
"Please, I'll do anything to fix the Trump Apocalypse, but don't ask me to do something actually meaningful like vote for a Democrat."
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [44 favorites]
I'm sorry. A man wipes away a tear as he speaks of his love for his wife and daughters and you, who have spent your entire career beating the 'family values' drum and attacking Democrats for hating families, you dare to criticize that? What is wrong with you?
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [71 favorites]
fwiw you can geotag tweets however you want. ... Yeah Geotagging ain't exactly proof of anything.
Good points. I was thinking that Cohen wasn't adept enough to plan ahead to do this, but the people he would have been meeting with were certainly sharp enough to make him do it.
posted by maudlin at 9:08 PM on January 10, 2017
Good points. I was thinking that Cohen wasn't adept enough to plan ahead to do this, but the people he would have been meeting with were certainly sharp enough to make him do it.
posted by maudlin at 9:08 PM on January 10, 2017
I'm sorry. A man wipes away a tear as he speaks of his love for his wife and daughters and you, who have spent your entire career beating the 'family values' drum and attacking Democrats for hating families, you dare to criticize that? What is wrong with you?
No statement by a conservative is ever made in good faith. They'd have mocked Jesus for crying out on the cross if he'd had a -D next to his name.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [53 favorites]
No statement by a conservative is ever made in good faith. They'd have mocked Jesus for crying out on the cross if he'd had a -D next to his name.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [53 favorites]
Hey, at least he wore a tie!
posted by uosuaq at 9:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by uosuaq at 9:11 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vote for the Democrat. It's rather annoying to have incessant begging for affirmation while refusing to take the simplest step to do anything to make things better.
Yeah, really. If you want Local Democrat to be more attentive to Local Issues That Matter To Local GOP, then that's in your power. I don't think it's in the power of rank and file Republicans any more to prevent the transformation of the GOP into UnitedRussia America.
posted by holgate at 9:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, really. If you want Local Democrat to be more attentive to Local Issues That Matter To Local GOP, then that's in your power. I don't think it's in the power of rank and file Republicans any more to prevent the transformation of the GOP into United
posted by holgate at 9:13 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
So the top trends on Twitter right now are #ObamaFarewell and #GoldenShowers
"Hey Universe, symbolism much? You're just laughing your ass off at us aren't you?"
posted by Jalliah at 9:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Laura Ingraham assailing Obama's manliness for dabbing a tear away. "I've never seen a man do that."
Oh for fucks sakes
posted by hangashore at 9:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
Oh for fucks sakes
posted by hangashore at 9:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
Lawmakers Feud Over Controversial Painting at Capitol (The Daily Beast, filed under "drama")
posted by filthy light thief at 9:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Missouri Rep. Lacy Clay (D-MO) had filed a police report after fellow lawmaker Duncan Hunter (R-CA) took it upon himself Friday to remove the artwork from the Capitol, a move which Clay said constituted theft. On Monday, however, Clay said Capitol Police ignored the complaint.Here's the painting, “Untitled #1” by David Pulphus, which has apparently been taken down and put back up a few times now, according to Fox News.
Democratic Rep. Lacy Clay, from whose Missouri district the picture came, once again hung it up, saying he was "an expert at hanging artwork."Given the concern over controversial art heists, Paul McLeod checked on other controversial artworks around the capitol (Twitter post and follow-ups, in which Paul points out all the statues of old racist white men that remain around D.C.).
posted by filthy light thief at 9:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
If 4chan could trick the intelligence services on this level we're so far past screwed we're off the map. I mean, it would require faking or compromising a British intelligence operative and all his sources that our intelligence community checked, which I would certainly hope is a little bit beyond their capabilities.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:26 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't have twitter but if I did i'd ask Laura if she's ever seen a grown man get peed on
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:31 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Maybe Laura Ingraham was upset because she thought Obama was dabbing.
posted by My Dad at 9:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 9:46 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
She's the one that that did the plausibly deniable seig heil, right?
posted by Artw at 9:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Weirdly the big Reddit threads on this are noticeably less overrun than usual with the troll brigades... if there isn't as much business as usual Russian astroturfing going on, I've got my fingers crossed that it's a sign Putin might be cutting Trump loose.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:53 PM on January 10, 2017
posted by jason_steakums at 9:53 PM on January 10, 2017
That page is SFW but the vast majority of Oglaf pages are emphatically NOT.
Great, now when I think of Putin and Trump it's all, "Blood and Thunder" "Victory at Sea"!
posted by Ber at 9:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Great, now when I think of Putin and Trump it's all, "Blood and Thunder" "Victory at Sea"!
posted by Ber at 9:55 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Laura Ingraham being an awful person... I did Nazi that coming.
posted by chris24 at 9:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [37 favorites]
that's just a Locker Room Wave
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:57 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
The hilarious part is that, whether one word of the memos is true or not, Russian intelligence officials will have spent their day running around asking each other if such a tape exists and if they have it and what's on it
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Not sure it's plausibly deniable...
People sure did try. I hope we're a little less inclined to make excuses now.
posted by Artw at 9:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
People sure did try. I hope we're a little less inclined to make excuses now.
posted by Artw at 9:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
January 11. Every TV, phone, computer screen in the world is permanently playing Trump piss treason video on loop. Nobody knows how to turn it off. Millions die in massive food supply chain disruption
posted by theodolite at 9:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 9:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Shaun King points out:
"I want to make a WILD observation.
Tonight, as millions of people read allegations that Donald Trump paid Russian prostitutes to urinate on each other, I haven't seen a single person express that they doubt the allegation based on Trump's character.
Some may not believe the source, others may think it's fake, but it is universally accepted that such a thing is far from being beneath Donald Trump.
That's sad. His character, his moral fiber, his behavioral ethics are so low, that even the most outrageous thoughts seem well within the realm of possibility."
posted by kafziel at 10:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [101 favorites]
"I want to make a WILD observation.
Tonight, as millions of people read allegations that Donald Trump paid Russian prostitutes to urinate on each other, I haven't seen a single person express that they doubt the allegation based on Trump's character.
Some may not believe the source, others may think it's fake, but it is universally accepted that such a thing is far from being beneath Donald Trump.
That's sad. His character, his moral fiber, his behavioral ethics are so low, that even the most outrageous thoughts seem well within the realm of possibility."
posted by kafziel at 10:00 PM on January 10, 2017 [101 favorites]
Based on his character (and associations) the baseline is "16-year-old girls, with significant ambiguity about consent with reference to local jurisdiction."
posted by holgate at 10:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by holgate at 10:06 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
If 4chan could trick the intelligence services on this level we're so far past screwed we're off the map. I mean, it would require faking or compromising a British intelligence operative and all his sources that our intelligence community checked, which I would certainly hope is a little bit beyond their capabilities.
From what I can piece together with information that is out there so far is:
(If this isn't what other people are understanding please correct me. It's messy out there).
The allegations of Trump re Russia are not dependent on this possibly faked dossier.
This dossier was mentioned but was not part of the majority of the briefing or the allegations.
The CIA did not make the pee allegations.
This happened when Buzzfeed ran a story about the dossier even though it was unverifiable.
Buzzfeed decided to run with it because they felt it was related to the briefing story.
It looks like this dossier may have faked out Rick Wilson, John McCain and Even McMullin. 4chan is saying that they leaked it and that it was McCain and McMullin passed it on to the CI. Note this does not mean they thought it was absolutely true or anything but apparently them passing it on means they must have believed it.
So if this a correct reading of events then:
The question is did the CI fail to find out it was faked? The people who say they created it are saying this is what it means. This would be pretty bad if it was true.
It's also possible and I don't think that with the state of things and what looks like CI vs Donald battle that this isn't just a plausible scenario that they did know it was fake and put in in the briefing on purpose with the idea that it leaking would be good. Eg. They're screwing him on purpose. The timing of it coming out now is good so I don't think it's outside the realm of something they would do or are capable of.
It's also just as possible that it was in the briefing as a 'this thing exists. we're sure it's faked, or it's not verifiable, but it's out there, it's damning and you should know about it' sort of thing. I'm certain that the President gets briefed on potential problems like this as a normal occurance.
posted by Jalliah at 10:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
From what I can piece together with information that is out there so far is:
(If this isn't what other people are understanding please correct me. It's messy out there).
The allegations of Trump re Russia are not dependent on this possibly faked dossier.
This dossier was mentioned but was not part of the majority of the briefing or the allegations.
The CIA did not make the pee allegations.
This happened when Buzzfeed ran a story about the dossier even though it was unverifiable.
Buzzfeed decided to run with it because they felt it was related to the briefing story.
It looks like this dossier may have faked out Rick Wilson, John McCain and Even McMullin. 4chan is saying that they leaked it and that it was McCain and McMullin passed it on to the CI. Note this does not mean they thought it was absolutely true or anything but apparently them passing it on means they must have believed it.
So if this a correct reading of events then:
The question is did the CI fail to find out it was faked? The people who say they created it are saying this is what it means. This would be pretty bad if it was true.
It's also possible and I don't think that with the state of things and what looks like CI vs Donald battle that this isn't just a plausible scenario that they did know it was fake and put in in the briefing on purpose with the idea that it leaking would be good. Eg. They're screwing him on purpose. The timing of it coming out now is good so I don't think it's outside the realm of something they would do or are capable of.
It's also just as possible that it was in the briefing as a 'this thing exists. we're sure it's faked, or it's not verifiable, but it's out there, it's damning and you should know about it' sort of thing. I'm certain that the President gets briefed on potential problems like this as a normal occurance.
posted by Jalliah at 10:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
To be crystal clear: that's the baseline for "plausible", not "acceptable".
posted by holgate at 10:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 10:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
From my FB feed already:
What's the difference between a lentil and a chickpea?
Trump wouldn't pay to have a lentil on his face.
posted by HotToddy at 10:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [44 favorites]
What's the difference between a lentil and a chickpea?
Trump wouldn't pay to have a lentil on his face.
posted by HotToddy at 10:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [44 favorites]
Weirdly the big Reddit threads on this are noticeably less overrun than usual with the troll brigades... if there isn't as much business as usual Russian astroturfing going on
When is the last time that you checked? I don't recommend that people go there at all but I like to take the temperature of the swamp water. I found that for a few weeks after Comrade TrumPee won that r/politics was swarmed by t_d sore losers and then their subreddit was essentially quarantined and now it is mostly anti-trumpers. You'll still see sore losers but they are mostly downvoted into oblivion and banned fairly quickly due to the new sub rules. Is it perfect? Hell no. They have very few mods and a ton of comment volume. For now it is an anti trump sub. Until the wind changes...
posted by futz at 10:10 PM on January 10, 2017
When is the last time that you checked? I don't recommend that people go there at all but I like to take the temperature of the swamp water. I found that for a few weeks after Comrade TrumPee won that r/politics was swarmed by t_d sore losers and then their subreddit was essentially quarantined and now it is mostly anti-trumpers. You'll still see sore losers but they are mostly downvoted into oblivion and banned fairly quickly due to the new sub rules. Is it perfect? Hell no. They have very few mods and a ton of comment volume. For now it is an anti trump sub. Until the wind changes...
posted by futz at 10:10 PM on January 10, 2017
Quick reminder that Trump once ran an elaborate scam to get people to send him their pee
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:14 PM on January 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Tonight, as millions of people read allegations that Donald Trump paid Russian prostitutes to urinate on each other, I haven't seen a single person express that they doubt the allegation based on Trump's character.
Some may not believe the source, others may think it's fake, but it is universally accepted that such a thing is far from being beneath Donald Trump.
He created jobs!
posted by thelonius at 10:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Some may not believe the source, others may think it's fake, but it is universally accepted that such a thing is far from being beneath Donald Trump.
He created jobs!
posted by thelonius at 10:25 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's what I keep coming back to: Trump is abnormally pro-Russia / pro-Putin. Why? I say abnormal here because there's no reason for him to be this way. He's happily adopted the GOP party line on abortion, most budgetary things, lower taxes, whatever, and all in pretty clunky ways that make it clear he's not really a True Believer in 90%+ of the party platform.
Yet when the Republican Convention came around, his crew was working behind the scenes to get some anti-Ukrainian-sovereignty language into the party platform. Why? Trump has no personal reason to do this. When it comes to foreign policy, his two big ideas are 1) Build The Wall and 2) Who Gives a Fuck?. He simply lacks any other consistent substantive divergences with the party line, especially in matters of foreign affairs.
But The Donald just has to be pro-Russia, even at the cost of putting him at odds with some very key figures in his own party. Why? Why bother? He could easily have just not said anything about Ukraine. He could easily not praise Putin, which is frankly bizarre behavior even for Crazy Orange.
He wasn't going to lose the Rust Belt for being anti-Russia -- the vast majority of his base lived through most of the Cold War and has no love for the Red Menace. There's just no reason for him to be such a Putin-booster unless... there's something we haven't heard about until now. He's adopted policies of convenience on every other issue except Russia. Why?
It looks like quid pro quo, but I can't figure out what the quid is and what the quo is, or who started the whole deal. Is Russia playing an extremely elaborate long con, starting with birtherism and ending with the DNC hack? Is Putin just running a chaotic evil campaign and rolled a 20 on this one? Is Trump paying off debt he has to Russian loan sharks? I have no idea, but it just doesn't make any sense for Trump to be #1 Russia Fan ex nihilo. He's not that kind of person.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [126 favorites]
Yet when the Republican Convention came around, his crew was working behind the scenes to get some anti-Ukrainian-sovereignty language into the party platform. Why? Trump has no personal reason to do this. When it comes to foreign policy, his two big ideas are 1) Build The Wall and 2) Who Gives a Fuck?. He simply lacks any other consistent substantive divergences with the party line, especially in matters of foreign affairs.
But The Donald just has to be pro-Russia, even at the cost of putting him at odds with some very key figures in his own party. Why? Why bother? He could easily have just not said anything about Ukraine. He could easily not praise Putin, which is frankly bizarre behavior even for Crazy Orange.
He wasn't going to lose the Rust Belt for being anti-Russia -- the vast majority of his base lived through most of the Cold War and has no love for the Red Menace. There's just no reason for him to be such a Putin-booster unless... there's something we haven't heard about until now. He's adopted policies of convenience on every other issue except Russia. Why?
It looks like quid pro quo, but I can't figure out what the quid is and what the quo is, or who started the whole deal. Is Russia playing an extremely elaborate long con, starting with birtherism and ending with the DNC hack? Is Putin just running a chaotic evil campaign and rolled a 20 on this one? Is Trump paying off debt he has to Russian loan sharks? I have no idea, but it just doesn't make any sense for Trump to be #1 Russia Fan ex nihilo. He's not that kind of person.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:27 PM on January 10, 2017 [126 favorites]
Yowza, this is like a good old fashioned political intelligence thriller with us as the auxillary characters trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
Now there is stuff out there talking about how the 4chan peeps who said it was fake a leaked it have refuted that it's actually fake and stuff about them saying it's fake doesn't add up. Speculation that those saying it's a hoax are the Russia propagandists just doing what they do.
And a new talking point may be making an appearance 'So what if he likes pee sex stuff? What's the big deal?"
So maybe not fake and the saying that it is fake is the fake part.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This internet era we're living in is so awesome possum. /s
posted by Jalliah at 10:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Now there is stuff out there talking about how the 4chan peeps who said it was fake a leaked it have refuted that it's actually fake and stuff about them saying it's fake doesn't add up. Speculation that those saying it's a hoax are the Russia propagandists just doing what they do.
And a new talking point may be making an appearance 'So what if he likes pee sex stuff? What's the big deal?"
So maybe not fake and the saying that it is fake is the fake part.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This internet era we're living in is so awesome possum. /s
posted by Jalliah at 10:37 PM on January 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
0xFCAF
Yes exactly. Also his Russia stance is pretty much the only issue and topic he has been consistent on. Compared to other issues where he's flip flopped and flipped back again or spoke about with multiple variation (sometime in the same day) he has varied his speech relatively little.
Funny how Trump being consistent makes it suspect.
posted by Jalliah at 10:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Yes exactly. Also his Russia stance is pretty much the only issue and topic he has been consistent on. Compared to other issues where he's flip flopped and flipped back again or spoke about with multiple variation (sometime in the same day) he has varied his speech relatively little.
Funny how Trump being consistent makes it suspect.
posted by Jalliah at 10:42 PM on January 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
I expect to soon be branded a cuck for not being into pee sex stuff.
posted by localhuman at 10:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 10:44 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
I haven't seen a single person express that they doubt the allegation based on Trump's character.
That is pretty wild. Also, not a single person (other than Trump) has come forward to say that he didn't do it. So even his supporters don't want to risk a public denial at this stage.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
That is pretty wild. Also, not a single person (other than Trump) has come forward to say that he didn't do it. So even his supporters don't want to risk a public denial at this stage.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:47 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
It looks like quid pro quo, but I can't figure out what the quid is and what the quo is, or who started the whole deal
Oligarch money in the 90s. If you had a windfall from a dodgy Russian privatisation scheme, really expensive real estate in stable democratic nations was how you'd park it. Same with dodgy money from all manner of kleptocratic regimes, which is why central London is full of million-pound penthouses sold on spec where no fucker lives.
posted by holgate at 10:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oligarch money in the 90s. If you had a windfall from a dodgy Russian privatisation scheme, really expensive real estate in stable democratic nations was how you'd park it. Same with dodgy money from all manner of kleptocratic regimes, which is why central London is full of million-pound penthouses sold on spec where no fucker lives.
posted by holgate at 10:51 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's sort of the Perry Mason(esque, because I don't think they ever did it) "everyone looked at the courtroom door" school of character. The fact that everyone thinks it's entirely believable doesn't really make much difference as to whether it's true or not, but plenty of public damage can be done simply by the fact that everyone is perfectly able to believe it happened based on the guy's character.
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
So in a world where this dossier is not fake, I'm kinda giggling at the idea of Trump supporters trying to deflect from the actual important part of the story, the collusion, by trying to focus on pee sex stuff being not a big deal 'so you all need to stop attacking the President you Liberal sex prudes!'
posted by Jalliah at 10:53 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
That said, if the argument is "why the party, not just the nominee?", then you have the weird collision between oligarch kleptocrats who don't believe in anything but personal enrichment, and Putinism which is Republicanism on state-sponsored Olympic steroids.
posted by holgate at 10:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 10:54 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seriously, how does this actually play out if he gets sworn in on the 20th? Like, how the fuck does American government go about its business in light of the suspicion that its leader has been bought and sold by a foreign power?
Manafort, Page, Cohen, Trump's unyielding public adoration of Vladimir Putin -- it smells rotten from ten miles away, but if there's no goddamn proof, nothing unequivocal, we all just have to throw up our hands and let it happen. I don't know what to say. It's just totally fucking insane, utterly without precedent in American history, and I have no answer, and apparently NOBODY has an answer.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
Manafort, Page, Cohen, Trump's unyielding public adoration of Vladimir Putin -- it smells rotten from ten miles away, but if there's no goddamn proof, nothing unequivocal, we all just have to throw up our hands and let it happen. I don't know what to say. It's just totally fucking insane, utterly without precedent in American history, and I have no answer, and apparently NOBODY has an answer.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [38 favorites]
Hey folks, a Canadian here, a worried sick Canadian, just wanting to thank you for the elucidating and edifying going on here in the first Trump post I've made through in some time.
And does anyone get the sense that a big part of what's motived Trump all along is a desire for vengeance on Obama for cutting him to pieces in that White House Correspondents' Dinner back in 2011? That that particular humiliation, when Trump attended his first official political event after bloviating about the birther nonsense, when he was made a fool in public; that's what set the gears in motion as far as a Whitehouse run?
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
And does anyone get the sense that a big part of what's motived Trump all along is a desire for vengeance on Obama for cutting him to pieces in that White House Correspondents' Dinner back in 2011? That that particular humiliation, when Trump attended his first official political event after bloviating about the birther nonsense, when he was made a fool in public; that's what set the gears in motion as far as a Whitehouse run?
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:56 PM on January 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Because Putin presents himself as this kind of ascetic self-mortifying topless horse-riding type, but he's wearing $40k watches and shamelessly pilfering Super Bowl rings.)
posted by holgate at 10:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 10:58 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like, how the fuck does American government go about its business in light of the suspicion that its leader has been bought and sold by a foreign power?
This is actually less worrying in a "we're all dead now, bye" sense than what happens if the US somehow gets rid of an executive branch bought and sold by a foreign power. Putin believes he has at least a four-year lease on the White House. What the fuck happens if the nation somehow terminates it early?
posted by holgate at 11:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is actually less worrying in a "we're all dead now, bye" sense than what happens if the US somehow gets rid of an executive branch bought and sold by a foreign power. Putin believes he has at least a four-year lease on the White House. What the fuck happens if the nation somehow terminates it early?
posted by holgate at 11:01 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Put isn't going to launch a bunch of nukes because his covert operation was only hugely successful instead of overwhelmingly successful.
posted by Justinian at 11:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:04 PM on January 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Want to know how long it's been since Trump last had a press conference? Last time he did, he was calling on Russia to hack Clinton's emails. So since absolutely nothing has changed in that time, has it really been so long after all?
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 PM on January 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Again, there's nothing innately wrong with Trump wanting to see Russian women pee, or even paying for (consensual) peeing games. That is not some deficit in his character that cries out for a rebuke. Though, needing to do it on a bed that Obama slept in weirdly crypto-racist (maybe). I don't think we should allow ourselves to get distracted by that.
But allowing yourself to be compromised in this way, in a hotel in St. Petersburg, even if it doesn't rise to the level of treason, is just such shockingly bad judgement as to be disqualifying. And beyond that, if they really made changes to policy based on some quid pro quo arrangement, based on Putin's prerogatives, then that's simply acting against America's own interests.
posted by newdaddy at 11:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
But allowing yourself to be compromised in this way, in a hotel in St. Petersburg, even if it doesn't rise to the level of treason, is just such shockingly bad judgement as to be disqualifying. And beyond that, if they really made changes to policy based on some quid pro quo arrangement, based on Putin's prerogatives, then that's simply acting against America's own interests.
posted by newdaddy at 11:07 PM on January 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
From now on, beginning this very night, political discourse has been altered forever.
posted by Evilspork at 11:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Evilspork at 11:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
And does anyone get the sense that a big part of what's motived Trump all along is a desire for vengeance on Obama for cutting him to pieces in that White House Correspondents' Dinner back in 2011?
Yes! This was brought up a lot during the primaries. trumpski never forgets a perceived slight. Just like Putin never forgot Hillary.
posted by futz at 11:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes! This was brought up a lot during the primaries. trumpski never forgets a perceived slight. Just like Putin never forgot Hillary.
posted by futz at 11:09 PM on January 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Again, there's nothing innately wrong with Trump wanting to see Russian women pee, or even paying for (consensual) peeing games. That is not some deficit in his character that cries out for a rebuke. Though, needing to do it on a bed that Obama slept in weirdly crypto-racist (maybe). I don't think we should allow ourselves to get distracted by that.
Most of what I've seen is not rebuking him, in the sense that people are horrified and that it's a character flaw. I'm sure that's out there but most of what I've seen are basic jokes about pee. Base humor like poop and fart jokes because it's 'pee' and it's Donald and now we get to make so many pee jokes and puns about Trump for realz. And the reason for him apparently doing the pee thing is just so messed up that it gives extra motivation or permission to make fun and take the piss out of him.
posted by Jalliah at 11:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Most of what I've seen is not rebuking him, in the sense that people are horrified and that it's a character flaw. I'm sure that's out there but most of what I've seen are basic jokes about pee. Base humor like poop and fart jokes because it's 'pee' and it's Donald and now we get to make so many pee jokes and puns about Trump for realz. And the reason for him apparently doing the pee thing is just so messed up that it gives extra motivation or permission to make fun and take the piss out of him.
posted by Jalliah at 11:15 PM on January 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
cohen's whereabouts? his cell provider knows. and the ic knows the provider knows. and the nsa has - at the very least - 'metadata'.
i prefer to think his office staff knows and is exploitable...seems more like shitty 80s cold war paperbacks.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
i prefer to think his office staff knows and is exploitable...seems more like shitty 80s cold war paperbacks.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:18 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Again, there's nothing innately wrong with Trump wanting to see Russian women pee, or even paying for (consensual) peeing games. That is not some deficit in his character that cries out for a rebuke.
Wrong place wrong time? We'll also probably never know if Melania gave her husband consent to do these type of things. That said, as terrible as this is (if it is true and the Obama connection - he is a sick fuck) the other things alleged in this leak are far worse. Potentially treasonous. Collusion. The lies and the cover up. It is astounding. The implications are mind boggling.
posted by futz at 11:19 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wrong place wrong time? We'll also probably never know if Melania gave her husband consent to do these type of things. That said, as terrible as this is (if it is true and the Obama connection - he is a sick fuck) the other things alleged in this leak are far worse. Potentially treasonous. Collusion. The lies and the cover up. It is astounding. The implications are mind boggling.
posted by futz at 11:19 PM on January 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's 1:15 am Central Standard Time and I've hit my favorites limit... twice.
Keep writing. I think I'll go watch the president's farewell speech again.
By the way, what happens to the incoming Cabinet if the president-elect resigns before or shortly after taking office? You know, in an alternative universe where that person has spend years indebted to his voting constituents, or has a shred of decency, or cares about the welfare of the United States. You know, that fantasy.
BRB
posted by TrishaU at 11:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Keep writing. I think I'll go watch the president's farewell speech again.
By the way, what happens to the incoming Cabinet if the president-elect resigns before or shortly after taking office? You know, in an alternative universe where that person has spend years indebted to his voting constituents, or has a shred of decency, or cares about the welfare of the United States. You know, that fantasy.
BRB
posted by TrishaU at 11:20 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
The genius of this leak (if you will) is that there's something in it for everyone. The pee stuff makes headlines in low- and middlebrow media (and hell, we're all talking about it here, too), while the implications-of-treason stuff provides plenty of red meat for Serious Discussion About What This Means For The Republic™ as well.
I think most of us MeFites don't particularly care about the pee thing — consenting adults (assuming the sex workers were of age — and I think it's safe to say the MeFi community is pretty pro-sex work, too), no one gets hurt, a relatively mild kink that's really not all that alarming — basically, who the hell gives a shit; let your freak flag fly, whatever. (Aside from the tasteless, racist implications of using the Obamas' old bed, of course.) But there's vast segments of American society for whom this is still monocle-popping stuff. Our just-about-worthless media knows this, so they'll dwell on this. Which is perfect, because again, anything to undermine and discredit Trump is all good with me.
TL;DR: The thoughtful among us get something, and the silly among us who want to titter over piss jokes get something, too. Everyone wins. Except for Donnie. And fuck him.
posted by CommonSense at 11:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
I think most of us MeFites don't particularly care about the pee thing — consenting adults (assuming the sex workers were of age — and I think it's safe to say the MeFi community is pretty pro-sex work, too), no one gets hurt, a relatively mild kink that's really not all that alarming — basically, who the hell gives a shit; let your freak flag fly, whatever. (Aside from the tasteless, racist implications of using the Obamas' old bed, of course.) But there's vast segments of American society for whom this is still monocle-popping stuff. Our just-about-worthless media knows this, so they'll dwell on this. Which is perfect, because again, anything to undermine and discredit Trump is all good with me.
TL;DR: The thoughtful among us get something, and the silly among us who want to titter over piss jokes get something, too. Everyone wins. Except for Donnie. And fuck him.
posted by CommonSense at 11:24 PM on January 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
It wasn't just the pee - the story is that he specifically wanted it done on a bed that Obama had slept in. Which, if true, is pretty sad and sick.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:32 PM on January 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Everyone wins. Except for Donnie. And fuck him.
Yes. But it is undeniably mainly the Russian intelligence services who get the biggest wins and leverage, and so one might well expect the Ukrainians, Georgians and Baltic states to be not quite the winners either.
That said, the value of it all as leverage might go down if people kinda sorta know the information anyhow.
posted by jaduncan at 11:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yes. But it is undeniably mainly the Russian intelligence services who get the biggest wins and leverage, and so one might well expect the Ukrainians, Georgians and Baltic states to be not quite the winners either.
That said, the value of it all as leverage might go down if people kinda sorta know the information anyhow.
posted by jaduncan at 11:34 PM on January 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
It wasn't just the pee - the story is that he specifically wanted it done on a bed that Obama had slept in. Which, if true, is pretty sad and sick.
Yes, I realized my huge oversight in glossing over that point, and edited my comment to add a parenthetical note about that. Which only adds more of a window into his sick fucking head, not that "the Deplorables" would care. (Actually, they'd love it.)
Yes. But it is undeniably mainly the Russian intelligence services who get the biggest wins and leverage, and so one might well expect the Ukranians, Georgians and Baltic states to be not quite the winners either.
Point taken.
posted by CommonSense at 11:37 PM on January 10, 2017
Yes, I realized my huge oversight in glossing over that point, and edited my comment to add a parenthetical note about that. Which only adds more of a window into his sick fucking head, not that "the Deplorables" would care. (Actually, they'd love it.)
Yes. But it is undeniably mainly the Russian intelligence services who get the biggest wins and leverage, and so one might well expect the Ukranians, Georgians and Baltic states to be not quite the winners either.
Point taken.
posted by CommonSense at 11:37 PM on January 10, 2017
Just to say, I'm honestly afraid this leads to fighting in the streets. Trump looks to be unqualified for office in a way that wasn't obvious to voters in the weeks just prior, and the Constitution doesn't seem to offer any remedy for that. What are the options? Sit back and let the inauguration happen, then pursue impeachment?
posted by newdaddy at 11:41 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by newdaddy at 11:41 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I remain agnostic about the Russian story but one clear take away is Trump is in conflict with CIA. That will have big repercussions.
Jeet Heer's next tweet was "What happens with a President feuds with the CIA? Worth looking at the main examples; JFK, Nixon, Carter." What's the tl;dr there?
posted by christopherious at 11:48 PM on January 10, 2017
Jeet Heer's next tweet was "What happens with a President feuds with the CIA? Worth looking at the main examples; JFK, Nixon, Carter." What's the tl;dr there?
posted by christopherious at 11:48 PM on January 10, 2017
Put[in] isn't going to launch a bunch of nukes because his covert operation was only hugely successful instead of overwhelmingly successful.
Russia annexed Crimea and has an ongoing military presence in eastern Ukraine because the pro-Russian president of Ukraine was removed from office. That's admittedly within what you'd call its traditional sphere of influence, but it's still an annexation and a de facto non-consensual pissing over of national sovereignty.
The fundamentals here are that a narcissistic fuckwit is set to become president, the GOP is busily reshaping itself into an ideologically Putinist party for the sake of holding power, and if that's somehow stopped before four years of awfulness, it will have no less of a destabilising effect than the fact that it's happening in the first place.
posted by holgate at 11:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Russia annexed Crimea and has an ongoing military presence in eastern Ukraine because the pro-Russian president of Ukraine was removed from office. That's admittedly within what you'd call its traditional sphere of influence, but it's still an annexation and a de facto non-consensual pissing over of national sovereignty.
The fundamentals here are that a narcissistic fuckwit is set to become president, the GOP is busily reshaping itself into an ideologically Putinist party for the sake of holding power, and if that's somehow stopped before four years of awfulness, it will have no less of a destabilising effect than the fact that it's happening in the first place.
posted by holgate at 11:50 PM on January 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
What are the options?
"Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And then I get on my knees and pray
We won't get fooled again. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And then I get on my knees and pray
We won't get fooled again. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:59 PM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wired: True Lies
There was one moment in Jeff Sessions’ confirmation hearing that revealed why so many are so terrified of him.posted by Joe in Australia at 12:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
And does anyone get the sense that a big part of what's motived Trump all along is a desire for vengeance on Obama for cutting him to pieces in that White House Correspondents' Dinner back in 2011?
I am of the same mind. And I am deeply curious as to The tone at the next Correspondents' Dinner (if there is one). The Wikipedia page on the White House Correspondents' Association mentions:
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
I am of the same mind. And I am deeply curious as to The tone at the next Correspondents' Dinner (if there is one). The Wikipedia page on the White House Correspondents' Association mentions:
Since 1983, however, the featured speaker has usually been a comedian, with the dinner taking on the form of a roast of the president and his administration...Playing to the Donald's strengths, that is not.
The dinner typically includes a skit, either live or videotaped, by the sitting president in which he mocks himself, for the amusement of the press corps.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
And does anyone get the sense that a big part of what's motived Trump all along is a desire for vengeance on Obama for cutting him to pieces in that White House Correspondents' Dinner back in 2011?
He's been "stunt running" for the presidency for years as an attention ploy for the Trump brand.
I truly don't think he even wanted to win last year, it was just to get some publicity for himself after he got booted off 'The Apprentice'.
posted by PenDevil at 12:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's been "stunt running" for the presidency for years as an attention ploy for the Trump brand.
I truly don't think he even wanted to win last year, it was just to get some publicity for himself after he got booted off 'The Apprentice'.
posted by PenDevil at 12:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
In case anyone here knows anyone who would be interested:
Innovate Against Hateposted by Joe in Australia at 12:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Innovation Prize Request for Proposals
The Anti-Defamation League and The Natan Fund are pleased to announce Innovate Against Hate, an innovation prize intended to catalyze the creation of grassroots approaches to counter the rise of hate online [...]
The dossier is definitely 4chan, I mean, just count the in-jokes. Even the piss story is a dig at Rick Wilson, whose son turned out to be into that - so if the Wilson connection is legit then the tale grows even more demented. If you buy it you're birther-level gullible, and if you want to smear Trump I'd go with something more plausible.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 12:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 12:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
So was that 'Golden Opportunities' Trump Tower Mumbai thing a photoshop job or the real deal? I mean either way it's a thing of fucking beauty. I've been coming back to it all evening laughing my ass off.
It works on multiple levels too. For awhile now there's been talk that the time for rational discourse is gone and democrats need to get down in the mud and duke it out. This is it. The Golden Opportunity. A trashy sex scandal that instantly sticks - attach some catchy hashtags and run with it.
And you just know it's gonna cut right through to Donnie. His handlers must have him strapped into one of those Hannibal Lector boards now, complete with the face mask, his eyes darting longingly at his phone, thinking of twitter burns he'd throw down if.he.could.just.get.to.it.
/tweet sound
posted by mannequito at 12:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It works on multiple levels too. For awhile now there's been talk that the time for rational discourse is gone and democrats need to get down in the mud and duke it out. This is it. The Golden Opportunity. A trashy sex scandal that instantly sticks - attach some catchy hashtags and run with it.
And you just know it's gonna cut right through to Donnie. His handlers must have him strapped into one of those Hannibal Lector boards now, complete with the face mask, his eyes darting longingly at his phone, thinking of twitter burns he'd throw down if.he.could.just.get.to.it.
/tweet sound
posted by mannequito at 12:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
That said, this is my favourite one, very "cosy".
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 12:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 12:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Um, those are not in the dossier that Buzzfeed released.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
That said, this is my favourite one, very "cosy".
4chan people are running a disinformation campaign about this and intentionally confusing the stuff they've made with the actual document. I know, you'll be shocked that /pol/ would do such a thing, but I assure you in this case you should indeed take it as a work of fiction. It tells you in the site header and everything.
posted by jaduncan at 12:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
4chan people are running a disinformation campaign about this and intentionally confusing the stuff they've made with the actual document. I know, you'll be shocked that /pol/ would do such a thing, but I assure you in this case you should indeed take it as a work of fiction. It tells you in the site header and everything.
posted by jaduncan at 12:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
I don't think we need to worry about what Putin might do if Trump is ousted. What he primarily wanted was chaos and an America distracted by its own issues. No matter WHAT happens from here on out, I'm pretty sure chaos is assured.
posted by threeturtles at 12:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 12:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dude, everyone knows about the Christian Bale meme. You really think Twitter wouldn't have caught that if it were true?
posted by asteria at 12:57 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by asteria at 12:57 AM on January 11, 2017
So does this mean that parents are now going to have to explain "golden showers" to their kids?
Worse, some people will have to explain to their parents.
The real crime is that parents have to learn about it in association with someone so vile, as opposed to a charming kinkster like Ricky Martin
posted by en forme de poire at 1:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Worse, some people will have to explain to their parents.
The real crime is that parents have to learn about it in association with someone so vile, as opposed to a charming kinkster like Ricky Martin
posted by en forme de poire at 1:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oligarch money in the 90s. If you had a windfall from a dodgy Russian privatisation scheme, really expensive real estate in stable democratic nations was how you'd park it. Same with dodgy money from all manner of kleptocratic regimes, which is why central London is full of million-pound penthouses sold on spec where no fucker lives.
And Trump was in dire need of money right when New York became a real estate investment destination for rich Russians. It adds up.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
And Trump was in dire need of money right when New York became a real estate investment destination for rich Russians. It adds up.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The real crime is that parents have to learn about it in association with someone so vile, as opposed to a charming kinkster like Ricky Martin
Whoa, Ricky Martin, too?
Man, this has just been a banner day for pee nuts
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whoa, Ricky Martin, too?
Man, this has just been a banner day for pee nuts
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I hate to be a wet blanket but that reference is from like 2007
posted by en forme de poire at 1:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 1:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
wet blanket
everything is terrible now
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
everything is terrible now
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
😇
posted by en forme de poire at 2:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 2:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I suspect the Christian Science Monitor is deeply regretting this headline from the other day: If Trump Wants Waterboarding, This Could Be Why
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's a headline of the first water
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Gurdian: BuzzFeed publishes unsubstantiated report on Trump, raising ethics questions
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:21 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:21 AM on January 11, 2017
NYT publishes unsubstantiated claims by FBI director, raising ethics questions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [74 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [74 favorites]
This happened when Buzzfeed ran a story about the dossier even though it was unverifiable.
Buzzfeed decided to run with it because they felt it was related to the briefing story.
My question of the morning - has Buzzfeed redefined "yellow journalism" or is this just the latest example?
posted by nubs at 3:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Buzzfeed decided to run with it because they felt it was related to the briefing story.
My question of the morning - has Buzzfeed redefined "yellow journalism" or is this just the latest example?
posted by nubs at 3:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, called the dossier “pulp fiction”, saying the Kremlin did not have compromising material on Trump nor on Hillary Clinton, as the documents also said.
“This is an absolute canard, an absolute fabrication, and it’s complete nonsense,” Peskov said in a statement. “The Kremlin does not engage in collecting kompromat.”
Yes. Nothing about the theory of kompromat or the practice of collecting it can be said to be linked to the past or present Kremlin in any way.
I'm shocked, shocked to find that kompromat gathering is going on in here!
posted by jaduncan at 3:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
“This is an absolute canard, an absolute fabrication, and it’s complete nonsense,” Peskov said in a statement. “The Kremlin does not engage in collecting kompromat.”
Yes. Nothing about the theory of kompromat or the practice of collecting it can be said to be linked to the past or present Kremlin in any way.
I'm shocked, shocked to find that kompromat gathering is going on in here!
posted by jaduncan at 3:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Hacking is a civil cause of action, as well as a crime. I wonder whether and when there'd be enough evidence for one of the DNC victims to get a subpoena.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:52 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:52 AM on January 11, 2017
Mod note: One deleted. Sorry, people not happy with long articles pasted in full in tiny type here. Maybe you can just link and summarize the info and how it relates to the topic. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 4:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Now Trump just uncritically cited the Kremlin statement as true and clearing him. He's literally citing Moscow over our intelligence services.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
THAT'S NOT HOW CITATION WORKS, DONALD.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
How do you go from:
"My fellow Americans, it has been the honor of my life to serve you. I won't stop; in fact, I will be right there with you, as a citizen, for all my days that remain. For now, whether you're young or young at heart, I do have one final ask of you as your president―the same thing I asked when you took a chance on me eight years ago. I am asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about change—but in yours."
To
Russia just said the unverified report paid for by political opponents is "A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION, UTTER NONSENSE." Very unfair!
Just guh, words fail me.
You don't get to talk about fair and unfair in political discourse. You don't get to. Even if it were completely unsubstantiated, even if it's lies from whole cloth, even then given how you have comported yourself it would still be fair at this point.
You who've peddled birtherism and "But emails...." and every single lie and smear.
Fucking try for fucking once to hold yourself to a higher standard. Show the office to which you have been elected some of the dignity it deserves.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
"My fellow Americans, it has been the honor of my life to serve you. I won't stop; in fact, I will be right there with you, as a citizen, for all my days that remain. For now, whether you're young or young at heart, I do have one final ask of you as your president―the same thing I asked when you took a chance on me eight years ago. I am asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about change—but in yours."
To
Russia just said the unverified report paid for by political opponents is "A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION, UTTER NONSENSE." Very unfair!
Just guh, words fail me.
You don't get to talk about fair and unfair in political discourse. You don't get to. Even if it were completely unsubstantiated, even if it's lies from whole cloth, even then given how you have comported yourself it would still be fair at this point.
You who've peddled birtherism and "But emails...." and every single lie and smear.
Fucking try for fucking once to hold yourself to a higher standard. Show the office to which you have been elected some of the dignity it deserves.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
That's like asking a penguin to fly, just for once.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
A kiwi flying. This, at least, was a noble quest.
posted by michswiss at 4:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by michswiss at 4:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Currently he's ranting about how he won "an election easily". Most responses are along the lines of, "sure, easily like a landslide victory of minus three million votes"
Oh god, the newest is comparing the US to nazi germany.
It feels like if he was going to go and shoot someone in Times Square today would be the day.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh god, the newest is comparing the US to nazi germany.
Jesus christ. The pile of "would be disqualifying for anybody else" stuff is so high I'm not sure I can reach to toss this one on top.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jesus christ. The pile of "would be disqualifying for anybody else" stuff is so high I'm not sure I can reach to toss this one on top.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public."
Trump here explicitly arguing against the first amendment.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump here explicitly arguing against the first amendment.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump here explicitly arguing against the first amendment.
And then crying "Nazi Germany" because a free press is gonna press.
posted by peeedro at 5:02 AM on January 11, 2017
And then crying "Nazi Germany" because a free press is gonna press.
posted by peeedro at 5:02 AM on January 11, 2017
(I expect 4CHAN DID IT to be a right wing talking point/defense by tomorrow.)
Pee-pee the frog.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Pee-pee the frog.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
And he's actually responding to random people on his tweets. In the nazi one, he responded to a guy with the bio "person on the internet"
posted by diogenes at 5:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public."
The future president of the USA having yet another infant tantrum.
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
The future president of the USA having yet another infant tantrum.
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I fear I’ll do some damage
One fine day
But I would not be convicted
By a jury of my pee-ers
Oh, still Crazy
Still Crazy
Still Crazy after all these years.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
One fine day
But I would not be convicted
By a jury of my pee-ers
Oh, still Crazy
Still Crazy
Still Crazy after all these years.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
WIKI LEAKS GOOD
RUSSIA LEAKS BAD
posted by saturday_morning at 5:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
RUSSIA LEAKS BAD
posted by saturday_morning at 5:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did he put "leak" in quotes as a pee joke?
posted by diogenes at 5:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
diogenes, that's a fake account responding to the "person on the internet" guy on Twitter, not actually Trump.
Edit: The account is @ryalDonaldTrump.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 5:13 AM on January 11, 2017
Edit: The account is @ryalDonaldTrump.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 5:13 AM on January 11, 2017
In the Nazi Germany tweet, he calls it "one last shot" at him. Is that one last shot by the intelligence agencies, since he'll just purge anybody who takes shots once he's sworn in? Or one last shot by the press, since evidently nobody in the administration believes in a free press? Which interpretation is worse?
posted by uncleozzy at 5:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 5:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
diogenes, that's a fake account responding to the "person on the internet" guy on Twitter, not actually Trump.
Dammit, I'm going to go and put the onion back on my belt now.
posted by diogenes at 5:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dammit, I'm going to go and put the onion back on my belt now.
posted by diogenes at 5:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
a. This was a high-quality pee jokes round. I think octobersurprise wins so far.
b. The hearing should be over after today, right? And it's really unlikely there are enough votes to stop Sessions?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:18 AM on January 11, 2017
b. The hearing should be over after today, right? And it's really unlikely there are enough votes to stop Sessions?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:18 AM on January 11, 2017
Even if the pee story isn't true (or is never confirmed), it's telling how believable it is because of Trump himself.
1. He's vindictive
2. He's the type to mark his territory
3. He likes to demean women
4. He's vulgar
5. He makes horrible financial choices
6. Russia
7. He's a giant man-baby in need of a change and a nap
posted by bibliowench at 5:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
1. He's vindictive
2. He's the type to mark his territory
3. He likes to demean women
4. He's vulgar
5. He makes horrible financial choices
6. Russia
7. He's a giant man-baby in need of a change and a nap
posted by bibliowench at 5:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. Let's skip the gross / homophobic, etc. imaginary (or even non-imaginary) porno stuff.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:24 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by taz (staff) at 5:24 AM on January 11, 2017
That's the thing - supporters immediately pushing that this is "obviously false" - what's obvious about that? It could be false, sure, but there seems to be a bit of protesting too much, afoot.
posted by thelonius at 5:25 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by thelonius at 5:25 AM on January 11, 2017
I almost wish the Golden-gate story hadn't been reported, because the financial stuff is so much more important (and more likely to be corroborated). As someone wiser than me once said, let's not let the pee distract us from the treason.
/hides bag of "You're-a-peein' Union" jokes behind back
posted by saturday_morning at 5:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
/hides bag of "You're-a-peein' Union" jokes behind back
posted by saturday_morning at 5:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Even if the pee story isn't true (or is never confirmed), it's telling how believable it is because of Trump himself.
1. He's vindictive
2. He's the type to mark his territory
3. He likes to demean women
4. He's vulgar
5. He makes horrible financial choices
6. Russia
7. He's a giant man-baby in need of a change and a nap
8. Overall, he cosplays masculinity to hide his insecurities.
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
1. He's vindictive
2. He's the type to mark his territory
3. He likes to demean women
4. He's vulgar
5. He makes horrible financial choices
6. Russia
7. He's a giant man-baby in need of a change and a nap
8. Overall, he cosplays masculinity to hide his insecurities.
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
My above comment should read "toxic masculinity".
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The hearing should be over after today, right? And it's really unlikely there are enough votes to stop Sessions?
Sessions will be confirmed, especially since Manchin will vote for him.
posted by dis_integration at 5:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sessions will be confirmed, especially since Manchin will vote for him.
posted by dis_integration at 5:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's pretty much the bedrock of most toxic masculinity; it's the insecure need to massively exaggerate things to the point of toxicity that defines it.
posted by jaduncan at 5:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 5:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Why is this guy so golden? Why him?
Not sure you have your answer now, tel3path?
that 'Golden Opportunities' Trump Tower Mumbai thing
For those confused by the other poignant Mumbai Trump ad, here's this one again: "I NEVER MISS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY. NEITHER SHOULD YOU."
posted by progosk at 5:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not sure you have your answer now, tel3path?
that 'Golden Opportunities' Trump Tower Mumbai thing
For those confused by the other poignant Mumbai Trump ad, here's this one again: "I NEVER MISS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY. NEITHER SHOULD YOU."
posted by progosk at 5:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's pretty much the bedrock of most toxic masculinity; it's the insecure need to massively exaggerate things to the point of toxicity that defines it.
Contrast with President Obama's basically flawless display of non-toxic masculinity last night. It makes me have some hope for the future; that at least some young kids were lucky enough to have Obama's example of a strong, supportive, feminist man/father/husband. It makes me sad though that these kinds of male role models are so few and far between.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Contrast with President Obama's basically flawless display of non-toxic masculinity last night. It makes me have some hope for the future; that at least some young kids were lucky enough to have Obama's example of a strong, supportive, feminist man/father/husband. It makes me sad though that these kinds of male role models are so few and far between.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Metafilter has no leverage on me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH METAFILTER - NO COMMENTS, NO FAVORITES, NO NOTHING!
posted by localhuman at 5:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 5:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well his outward behaviour shows him to be someone who has, as pointed out, consistently supported Russian interests and has displayed no firm convictions on anything else. The one thing he's been consistent on is toeing the Russian party line.
This on top of everything else that is factually known about him, never mind rumour and innuendo - and what I'm about to say I say sharing the concerns about press ethics and not bearing false witness - if this report is fabricated, the reason it rings true is because it provides an explanation of his behaviour that's consistent with that behaviour.
I mean, would he have any other reason for supporting Putin the way he does, other than being beholden to Putin? Is it believable that he's upholding Putin out of conviction, or at least hero worship? The only other person in the world he seems to regard so highly is Ivanka, and that has a built-in explanation; she's 50% related to him.
Not to mention that he literally asked Russia to hack Hillary's emails during the election, which I guess could have been a joke, but someone certainly hacked her and Trump benefitted from it. And he continues to deride US intelligence and explicitly side with Russia. This has not changed.
All this is probably not because he just likes Putin a whole lot. He's been incentivized somehow or other, we just don't know how specifically. I mean sure, the whole thing could be made up, with the pee story included in order to get people to pay attention in ways the actual facts thus far haven't sufficed.
If the report is then discredited I don't know what it would take to overcome that, given that Trump is basically going around in a t-shirt printed with "I am a Russian stooge, ask me how" and nobody seems to mind.
posted by tel3path at 5:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
This on top of everything else that is factually known about him, never mind rumour and innuendo - and what I'm about to say I say sharing the concerns about press ethics and not bearing false witness - if this report is fabricated, the reason it rings true is because it provides an explanation of his behaviour that's consistent with that behaviour.
I mean, would he have any other reason for supporting Putin the way he does, other than being beholden to Putin? Is it believable that he's upholding Putin out of conviction, or at least hero worship? The only other person in the world he seems to regard so highly is Ivanka, and that has a built-in explanation; she's 50% related to him.
Not to mention that he literally asked Russia to hack Hillary's emails during the election, which I guess could have been a joke, but someone certainly hacked her and Trump benefitted from it. And he continues to deride US intelligence and explicitly side with Russia. This has not changed.
All this is probably not because he just likes Putin a whole lot. He's been incentivized somehow or other, we just don't know how specifically. I mean sure, the whole thing could be made up, with the pee story included in order to get people to pay attention in ways the actual facts thus far haven't sufficed.
If the report is then discredited I don't know what it would take to overcome that, given that Trump is basically going around in a t-shirt printed with "I am a Russian stooge, ask me how" and nobody seems to mind.
posted by tel3path at 5:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
nicolas léonard sadi carnot: Because there are at least a few people in the thread who seem to buy the idea that this is a 4chan hoax, it'd be super useful if you came back and stated explicitly that the excerpts and "in-jokes" you posted suggesting that 4chan was behind the dossier were completely fake and not part of the documents Buzzfeed leaked.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 5:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by pretentious illiterate at 5:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
DJT is screaming "no deals, no loans" which is easy to prove-- all he has to do is release his taxes. There is no reason not to at this point except for the blow to his ego when people find out how little he is worth.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
oh, he's worth a warm puddle of piss, right?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm having a harder and harder time understanding Comey's actions simply through the lens of partisanship.
posted by diogenes at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
no puppet
no puppet
you're the puppet
posted by saturday_morning at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
no puppet
you're the puppet
posted by saturday_morning at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Another possible explanation, especially given that this unsubstantiated report has been circulating since October, is simply that the Republicans decided to ride his coattails into office, give him enough rope to hang himself, and then at the last minute discredit him and oust him.
posted by tel3path at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 5:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
In the Nazi Germany tweet, he calls it "one last shot" at him.
When you believe it's you against the world ... well.
I'm concerned that he thinks it's the job of the intel agencies to stifle non-classified privately commissioned material, and somehow that's the opposite of Nazi Germany.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
When you believe it's you against the world ... well.
I'm concerned that he thinks it's the job of the intel agencies to stifle non-classified privately commissioned material, and somehow that's the opposite of Nazi Germany.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are we still fanficcing a last minute skyhook that prevents Trump's inauguration? Banish the thought from your brain. Russia "leaks" or no "leaks", true or false, Trump is taking the oath of office in 9 days. Get used to it.
P.S., Rex Tillerson looks like even more like a comic book villain than Trump and also looks super pissed right now.
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
P.S., Rex Tillerson looks like even more like a comic book villain than Trump and also looks super pissed right now.
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Clearly *someone* is trying to nobble the inauguration, whether or not they're likely to succeed.
posted by tel3path at 6:07 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by tel3path at 6:07 AM on January 11, 2017
I'd appreciate it if we could let each other 'get used to it' (or not) at our own discretion, and on our own schedules.
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
Are we still fanficcing a last minute skyhook that prevents Trump's inauguration?
I'm not even trying to guess how this plays out, but I'm optimistic that if collusion is proven, Trump doesn't just proceed on his merry way.
posted by diogenes at 6:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not even trying to guess how this plays out, but I'm optimistic that if collusion is proven, Trump doesn't just proceed on his merry way.
posted by diogenes at 6:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
And yeah, the idea of the inauguration being stopped may be outlandish, but so is the idea of such an obvious enemy stooge taking power as the US President and having literally everyone just sit there and watch and nobody lift a finger to stop it. Be as cynical as you want, but total apathy by literally everyone, in the face of something like that, would be much harder to explain.
posted by tel3path at 6:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 6:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
I'm extremely spooked by the "last shot" tweet. What a fucking fuck.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unlikely as it is that this'll bring down the Orange Eminence, would there be anything more poetic than a death-blow dealt by the urine of an underage eastern european sex worker?
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
My husband asked me last night if treason was still punishable by death.
More seriously - lets imagine for a moment a world where this was somehow proven -- it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that any PEOTUS or POTUS (or V-P) was in the pay of a foreign power and was doing their bidding. A double agent. Aside from impeachment, what possible legal action/penalty could there be? I literally cannot imagine someone that high up in the government (even speaker or ranking members) being tried and jailed for anything like this.
posted by anastasiav at 6:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
More seriously - lets imagine for a moment a world where this was somehow proven -- it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that any PEOTUS or POTUS (or V-P) was in the pay of a foreign power and was doing their bidding. A double agent. Aside from impeachment, what possible legal action/penalty could there be? I literally cannot imagine someone that high up in the government (even speaker or ranking members) being tried and jailed for anything like this.
posted by anastasiav at 6:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ted Cruz looks like somebody drew a smarmy, smirking face on a gumdrop.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 6:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I just mean: our plans should be plans that deal with a Trump as President. Not some twist ending where he's stopped at the last minute. I'm not advocating apathy. I think our actions have to take reality into account. Reality is Trump is still going to be President.
I mean there are basically a handful of ways it could be stopped in the next 9 days, none of which are going to happen, most of which are even crazier than Trump becoming President. No Congressional remedy will be forthcoming, that much is obvious. No precedent exists for the courts issuing some kind of halt to his inauguration. So basically either someone kills Trump, or Obama declares a state of emergency/martial law, has Trump arrested for Treason, and stays on in power, possibly declaring new elections, or something like that.
posted by dis_integration at 6:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean there are basically a handful of ways it could be stopped in the next 9 days, none of which are going to happen, most of which are even crazier than Trump becoming President. No Congressional remedy will be forthcoming, that much is obvious. No precedent exists for the courts issuing some kind of halt to his inauguration. So basically either someone kills Trump, or Obama declares a state of emergency/martial law, has Trump arrested for Treason, and stays on in power, possibly declaring new elections, or something like that.
posted by dis_integration at 6:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
"...but total apathy by literally everyone, in the face of something like that, would be much harder to explain."
While I think it's primarily cowardice, I also think the river of gobsmack coming from this election has set off a bit of Kitty Genovese effect: surely the grownups will step in and... wait, what? we are the grownups?
posted by klarck at 6:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
While I think it's primarily cowardice, I also think the river of gobsmack coming from this election has set off a bit of Kitty Genovese effect: surely the grownups will step in and... wait, what? we are the grownups?
posted by klarck at 6:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm extremely spooked by the "last shot" tweet. What a fucking fuck.
The charitable reading is that he's too dumb to understand that he won't automatically have absolute power over the intel community as soon as he sits at the Resolute Desk. I doubt he's saying this with a competent scheme in mind to completely destroy USA intelligence organizations. But ya never know!
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The charitable reading is that he's too dumb to understand that he won't automatically have absolute power over the intel community as soon as he sits at the Resolute Desk. I doubt he's saying this with a competent scheme in mind to completely destroy USA intelligence organizations. But ya never know!
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
So what time is that press conference today?
posted by peeedro at 6:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 6:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
A few years ago some friends and I were playing the Battlestar Galactica board game.
Relatively late in the game it became clear that the President was a Cylon. So we locked him in the Brig, but we then discovered that the Vice President was ALSO a Cylon.
They had somehow contrived a situation where any attempt to oust the President would automatically put the VicePresident in charge (who could automatically reinstate the President), and any attempt to get rid of the Vice President required the Presidents approval, despite him being in the Brig.*
It seemed absurd to us at the time that the people who wrote the rules would allow a situation whereby the Cylons could openly control the ship and despite all the players knowing this, no one could do anything about it.
It has become clear that the Constitution of a nation is no more than a set of rules for playing the game.
And sometimes everyone is a Cylon.
*I may be misremembering the specific details, but broadly speaking this was the situation.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
Relatively late in the game it became clear that the President was a Cylon. So we locked him in the Brig, but we then discovered that the Vice President was ALSO a Cylon.
They had somehow contrived a situation where any attempt to oust the President would automatically put the VicePresident in charge (who could automatically reinstate the President), and any attempt to get rid of the Vice President required the Presidents approval, despite him being in the Brig.*
It seemed absurd to us at the time that the people who wrote the rules would allow a situation whereby the Cylons could openly control the ship and despite all the players knowing this, no one could do anything about it.
It has become clear that the Constitution of a nation is no more than a set of rules for playing the game.
And sometimes everyone is a Cylon.
*I may be misremembering the specific details, but broadly speaking this was the situation.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
This is gonna be good. (And I good I mean, horrifying and cringe-inducing.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Obama declares a state of emergency/martial law
I know you weren't seriously suggesting this would happen, but I got a chuckle out of it anyway. Obama is the kind of guy who wouldn't declare an emergency taco night if tortillas and ground chuck were on sale.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
I know you weren't seriously suggesting this would happen, but I got a chuckle out of it anyway. Obama is the kind of guy who wouldn't declare an emergency taco night if tortillas and ground chuck were on sale.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
I believe the UK still has the death penalty for two offences: high treason, and piracy on the high seas. As for the US, I couldn't tell ya.
I would like to know what legal action could be taken if such allegations were proved, too.
But seriously. All this time I've been sitting here going WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK, HOW IS AMERICA PUTTING UP WITH THIS OF ALL THINGS - I wasn't doing that to vent my emotions, I actually was puzzled at what I was seeing.
Yes, yes, I get it, it's a lousy stinking world, but a world in which an enemy agent takes over the US presidency without let or hindrance? The world would have to be lousy and stinking in different ways than I realized, if that were the case. You know, like The Matrix, except your dreamworld is actually shitty and then you get woke up in the real world and it is equally or more shitty, but in different and unexpected ways.
I mean you can take the easy way out and subscribe to the doctrine of total depravity, and in that case there's nothing to do *but* watch. Thing is, the doctrine of total depravity is not true. Not everybody who could have intervened is shitty in every possible way. Some of them probably do have some good points.
ETA: and I hear you about Bush, but there really is a difference in kind between Bush starting a long unnecessary war for no reason, and a guy wearing a Putin t-shirt to his own presidential inauguration. There really is. And I say this without excusing Bush in any way whatsoever.
posted by tel3path at 6:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I would like to know what legal action could be taken if such allegations were proved, too.
But seriously. All this time I've been sitting here going WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK, HOW IS AMERICA PUTTING UP WITH THIS OF ALL THINGS - I wasn't doing that to vent my emotions, I actually was puzzled at what I was seeing.
Yes, yes, I get it, it's a lousy stinking world, but a world in which an enemy agent takes over the US presidency without let or hindrance? The world would have to be lousy and stinking in different ways than I realized, if that were the case. You know, like The Matrix, except your dreamworld is actually shitty and then you get woke up in the real world and it is equally or more shitty, but in different and unexpected ways.
I mean you can take the easy way out and subscribe to the doctrine of total depravity, and in that case there's nothing to do *but* watch. Thing is, the doctrine of total depravity is not true. Not everybody who could have intervened is shitty in every possible way. Some of them probably do have some good points.
ETA: and I hear you about Bush, but there really is a difference in kind between Bush starting a long unnecessary war for no reason, and a guy wearing a Putin t-shirt to his own presidential inauguration. There really is. And I say this without excusing Bush in any way whatsoever.
posted by tel3path at 6:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a student of language, I find it fascinating that we can pinpoint almost to the hour when the Russian loanword kompromat entered English.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
I think the best we can hope for is Trump's administration and the Republicans wrongfooted by scandal - the less popular they are, the harder it will be for them to spin "let's gut Social Security and Medicare", and the more brutal and openly undemocratic they'll have to be to attain their goals. Assuming we don't have a total collapse of all democratic process, the less credibility they have, the less credibility they can gain.
Remember how long it took for Watergate to play out. That was a different media landscape, but it was also a much more definite scandal. "Trump is super creepy and gross and has concealed how vulnerable he may be to foreign pressure" is bad, yes, but it's not as clearly defined a thing as Watergate.
Trump is going to be president. We're probably better off with him as president fucking everything up and dividing his party than we are with Pence, who is - and I say this as one who has relatives in Indiana - evil and also incredibly mediocre in a way that fools a lot of people.
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Remember how long it took for Watergate to play out. That was a different media landscape, but it was also a much more definite scandal. "Trump is super creepy and gross and has concealed how vulnerable he may be to foreign pressure" is bad, yes, but it's not as clearly defined a thing as Watergate.
Trump is going to be president. We're probably better off with him as president fucking everything up and dividing his party than we are with Pence, who is - and I say this as one who has relatives in Indiana - evil and also incredibly mediocre in a way that fools a lot of people.
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Seems more of a round trip phrase, though? компрометировать is a borrowed verb, as verbs ending in овать usually are, and материал isn't of Slavonic origin either.
Eh, if the fate of the world were not at stake, I would be having a great time with all this.
posted by tel3path at 6:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Eh, if the fate of the world were not at stake, I would be having a great time with all this.
posted by tel3path at 6:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, it's like Hannibal, but with more farce and less gritty realism.
posted by tel3path at 6:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 6:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, yes, I get it, it's a lousy stinking world, but a world in which an enemy agent takes over the US presidency without let or hindrance?
This baffles me too. I get how and why it would happen if we only think he's an enemy agent. But people seem to be saying that it will happen even if we know he's an enemy agent.
posted by diogenes at 6:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
This baffles me too. I get how and why it would happen if we only think he's an enemy agent. But people seem to be saying that it will happen even if we know he's an enemy agent.
posted by diogenes at 6:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
And it is really odd to say this isn't a clearcut scandal when Trump is displaying his real allegiances with his every word and action. With evidence like that, as they say, who needs a body?
posted by tel3path at 6:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 6:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's no death penalty in the UK - as Wikipedia says, "Although unused, the death penalty remained a legally defined punishment for certain offences such as treason until it was completely abolished in 1998. In 2004 the 13th Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights became binding on the United Kingdom, prohibiting the restoration of the death penalty for as long as the UK is a party to the Convention."
About Trump's frenzied denials - I choose not to concentrate on the words he says, but look into his heart.
Ugh.
Meanwhile, do any people with psychiatric chops know when a narcissist thrust into a challenging and hostile environment becomes unable to function? What would the signs of an incipient breakdown and inability to cope look like?
posted by Devonian at 6:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
About Trump's frenzied denials - I choose not to concentrate on the words he says, but look into his heart.
Ugh.
Meanwhile, do any people with psychiatric chops know when a narcissist thrust into a challenging and hostile environment becomes unable to function? What would the signs of an incipient breakdown and inability to cope look like?
posted by Devonian at 6:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Let's play this out by assuming the worst of the allegations are true. It's too late to stop Trump from being sworn in, and he's not going to step aside at the last minute. So on Jan 20 he's sworn in. Most (or all) of his cabinet picks are approved.
Evidence slowly continues to trickle in over the Spring. Enough details are leaked that the press doesn't let the story die. By Summer it's clear to everyone that the campaign was in cahoots with Russia with a handful of high level Trump people implicated.
Congress is pressured into holding hearings. Rumors of staffers turning to save their own hides circulate and it's becoming increasingly clear that impeachment is going to happen.
At some point, Trump will pull a Nixon and resign. Pence will be sworn in and immediately pardon his former boss, using Ford's example as the precedent.
Pence loses reelection, but 4 years later everyone's forgotten why they were mad and Ivanka is elected in a landslide.
posted by Eddie Mars at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Evidence slowly continues to trickle in over the Spring. Enough details are leaked that the press doesn't let the story die. By Summer it's clear to everyone that the campaign was in cahoots with Russia with a handful of high level Trump people implicated.
Congress is pressured into holding hearings. Rumors of staffers turning to save their own hides circulate and it's becoming increasingly clear that impeachment is going to happen.
At some point, Trump will pull a Nixon and resign. Pence will be sworn in and immediately pardon his former boss, using Ford's example as the precedent.
Pence loses reelection, but 4 years later everyone's forgotten why they were mad and Ivanka is elected in a landslide.
posted by Eddie Mars at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, do any people with psychiatric chops know when a narcissist thrust into a challenging and hostile environment becomes unable to function? What would the signs of an incipient breakdown and inability to cope look like?
Typically, this is when the man would murder his wife/family and then kill himself. I'm not sure how that will map to the national stage.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Typically, this is when the man would murder his wife/family and then kill himself. I'm not sure how that will map to the national stage.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
From a transcript of Obama's speech:
posted by hilaryjade at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
We weaken those ties when we allow our political dialogue to become so corrosive that people of good character are turned off from public service; so coarse with rancor that Americans with whom we disagree are not just misguided, but somehow malevolent. We weaken those ties when we define some of us as more American than others; when we write off the whole system as inevitably corrupt, and blame the leaders we elect without examining our own role in electing them.I realize that some people on both sides of our political system are, in fact, malevolent. However, this statement does help me in reframing some of my thinking patterns about people I know, or share a community with.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
What would the signs of an incipient breakdown and inability to cope look like?
*gestures broadly at everything*
posted by saturday_morning at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [50 favorites]
*gestures broadly at everything*
posted by saturday_morning at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [50 favorites]
One thing that is almost comforting is how unaware DJT is-- almost an anti-Machiavelli if you will. He actually cites Russia as a source to prove that he is not in bed with Russia. He may be a Russian stooge but he is neither smart enough nor crafty enough to hide his loyalty to Putin.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
We're probably better off with him as president fucking everything up and dividing his party than we are with Pence
I don't think this is a safe bet. While Pence is a vile ghoul with a small and callous mind, his personality disorders are relatively typical for politics and he has an interest in keeping a measure of stability in the country, at least of the sort that he imagines. I think the chances of nuclear war, the balkanization and collapse of the USA, or some other unforeseen and awful chaos are far higher under Trump than Pence.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
I don't think this is a safe bet. While Pence is a vile ghoul with a small and callous mind, his personality disorders are relatively typical for politics and he has an interest in keeping a measure of stability in the country, at least of the sort that he imagines. I think the chances of nuclear war, the balkanization and collapse of the USA, or some other unforeseen and awful chaos are far higher under Trump than Pence.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Typically, this is when the man would murder his wife/family and then kill himself. I'm not sure how that will map to the national stage.
That is the most profundly discomforting thing I've read in my literate history.
posted by Devonian at 6:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
That is the most profundly discomforting thing I've read in my literate history.
posted by Devonian at 6:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
This whole thing, unfortunately, hinges on Congress.
Normally, there would be enough Congresspeople disturbed by these allegations to hold hearings. (Real hearings not perfunctory "See, we lobbed some softballs at him and he answered, so our work here is done.")
Normally, the President-elect would behave either by pledging complete, sincere transparency and cooperation with any investigations, which will be welcomed as he assures everyone that any such process would entirely clear him of all allegations. Or, he would give a "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around any more" speech, step down, and disappear in a puff of smoke.
But the President-elect is a pathological narcissist who is constitutionally unable to do either of the above. And Congress is packed with people who I literally cannot understand how they sleep at night. who have decided to trade every deeply-held Constitutional value for power.
So, here we are. And here we will remain until enough people in Congress grow some gonads.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Normally, there would be enough Congresspeople disturbed by these allegations to hold hearings. (Real hearings not perfunctory "See, we lobbed some softballs at him and he answered, so our work here is done.")
Normally, the President-elect would behave either by pledging complete, sincere transparency and cooperation with any investigations, which will be welcomed as he assures everyone that any such process would entirely clear him of all allegations. Or, he would give a "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around any more" speech, step down, and disappear in a puff of smoke.
But the President-elect is a pathological narcissist who is constitutionally unable to do either of the above. And Congress is packed with people who I literally cannot understand how they sleep at night. who have decided to trade every deeply-held Constitutional value for power.
So, here we are. And here we will remain until enough people in Congress grow some gonads.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
I think the chances of nuclear war, the balkanization and collapse of the USA, or some other unforeseen and awful chaos are far higher under Trump than Pence.
It's kind of like the old Cruz vs Trump comparisons in the primaries. High chance of "normal" disasters vs lower chance of absolute catastrophe.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's kind of like the old Cruz vs Trump comparisons in the primaries. High chance of "normal" disasters vs lower chance of absolute catastrophe.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
CNN now reporting that Russian spies claim to have personal and financial information that compromises Donald Trump
Sadly, I think Trump is in the category where he's so brazen that no information exists that could compromise him for more than 2 weeks.
It's also true that there's likely nothing the Republicans in Congress and elsewhere are willing to hold him accountable for.
Which, of course, mean that they're all, every one, complicit in his corruption, and own it too.
posted by Gelatin at 6:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sadly, I think Trump is in the category where he's so brazen that no information exists that could compromise him for more than 2 weeks.
It's also true that there's likely nothing the Republicans in Congress and elsewhere are willing to hold him accountable for.
Which, of course, mean that they're all, every one, complicit in his corruption, and own it too.
posted by Gelatin at 6:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
the idea of the inauguration being stopped may be outlandish, but so is the idea of such an obvious enemy stooge taking power as the US President and having literally everyone just sit there and watch and nobody lift a finger to stop it. Be as cynical as you want, but total apathy by literally everyone, in the face of something like that, would be much harder to explain.
Even at this point, I'll be shocked if Trump isn't inaugurated. The people who might stop him legally, i.e., Congressional Republicans, won't; and the people who would, can't. It would take a coup to keep him out of the White House now.
Last night Charlie Pierce tweeted "DC is completely gobsmacked. Everybody's sitting around waiting for someone else to do something. It's like being aboard the Pequod." I imagine that gets it exactly right.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
Even at this point, I'll be shocked if Trump isn't inaugurated. The people who might stop him legally, i.e., Congressional Republicans, won't; and the people who would, can't. It would take a coup to keep him out of the White House now.
Last night Charlie Pierce tweeted "DC is completely gobsmacked. Everybody's sitting around waiting for someone else to do something. It's like being aboard the Pequod." I imagine that gets it exactly right.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
So just to be clear, this was something about which the FBI would say nothing, but "there might be emails on Scott Weiner's laptop and we have no idea whether they have anything to do with anything at all" required a red alert freakout.
And yet for some reason Obama hasn't fired Comey.
posted by Gelatin at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
And yet for some reason Obama hasn't fired Comey.
posted by Gelatin at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Re: the latest allegations of russian meddling turned over by John McCain we now have a new talking point to hit our representatives with. I know it feels good to vent on the blue but take 5 min's this morning to call your Senator and let them know you're shocked by these allegations. Doesn't matter if your voice cracks or you end up in tears - just do it.
posted by photoslob at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Here is my "why this is sort of a weird cloud-of-pollution scandal rather than a smoking gun scandal" feeling:
What has Trump done that has been proved to be illegal? At this point, what he's done is shown that he is utterly, utterly unfit to be president, but being unfit to be president isn't illegal. Being in hock to Russian banks isn't illegal. Refusing to disclose your tax returns as a presidential candidate isn't illegal. Inexplicably having no interest in foreign policy except supporting Russia's interests in Ukraine isn't illegal. Supporting regimes that are thuggish and hostile to the interests of the American people isn't even remotely illegal, or Henry Kissinger would be serving a life sentence at hard labor. What's more, we've elected a lot of rich people in the past - I bet that plenty of them had very dubious international ties which made their financial and political views compromised.
Basically, my feeling is that Trump is openly doing a lot of stuff which in the past either wasn't done because of common practice rather than because of illegality (tax returns); was done but not nearly to the same extent (political and financial ties to dubious things, hiring sex workers, being a sleaze); or was done but was not talked about (Kissinger).
I'm glad that people are looking at Trump and finding what he does loathsome. I think that's the right response, and if we as a country manage to pull ourselves out of this horrible mess, I have some hopes that it will mean that politicians are held to higher standards in their finances, international dealings and personal lives. At the same time, I think that one reason this isn't working out like Watergate is that it's just an intensification of corrupt rich person behavior.
(Also, I don't think Trump is an "enemy agent" per se. He'd be anyone's "agent" if they loaned him money and had embarrassing stuff on him - if Iceland had the stuff, we'd have Trump supporting the Pirate Party, althings and a generous social welfare state.)
posted by Frowner at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
What has Trump done that has been proved to be illegal? At this point, what he's done is shown that he is utterly, utterly unfit to be president, but being unfit to be president isn't illegal. Being in hock to Russian banks isn't illegal. Refusing to disclose your tax returns as a presidential candidate isn't illegal. Inexplicably having no interest in foreign policy except supporting Russia's interests in Ukraine isn't illegal. Supporting regimes that are thuggish and hostile to the interests of the American people isn't even remotely illegal, or Henry Kissinger would be serving a life sentence at hard labor. What's more, we've elected a lot of rich people in the past - I bet that plenty of them had very dubious international ties which made their financial and political views compromised.
Basically, my feeling is that Trump is openly doing a lot of stuff which in the past either wasn't done because of common practice rather than because of illegality (tax returns); was done but not nearly to the same extent (political and financial ties to dubious things, hiring sex workers, being a sleaze); or was done but was not talked about (Kissinger).
I'm glad that people are looking at Trump and finding what he does loathsome. I think that's the right response, and if we as a country manage to pull ourselves out of this horrible mess, I have some hopes that it will mean that politicians are held to higher standards in their finances, international dealings and personal lives. At the same time, I think that one reason this isn't working out like Watergate is that it's just an intensification of corrupt rich person behavior.
(Also, I don't think Trump is an "enemy agent" per se. He'd be anyone's "agent" if they loaned him money and had embarrassing stuff on him - if Iceland had the stuff, we'd have Trump supporting the Pirate Party, althings and a generous social welfare state.)
posted by Frowner at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh and also, this means that basically everyone owns Trump. The Russians own him, but Congress owns him, too. Every bill they put before him is going to come in an envelope that reads, "Sign, or we start the hearings."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Or Trump is provoked into such a frenzy of narcissistic rage that he springs a trap and somehow removes himself from office, either voluntarily or semi-voluntarily. That could happen before the inauguration, I guess.
What form that would take, I've no idea.
It just reminds me of all the Hannibalian "might be able to tempt him into revealing himself" plots, except the guy they're trying to catch is completely guileless and without self-control so they wrap it up in less than 3 minutes and have to fill the rest of the episode with cryptic dialogue and meaningful glances.
It is tricky to discredit someone who's already revealed himself, though, so whatever pushed him over the edge it would have to be really extreme, and create an extremely negative public impression in ways he so far hasn't. I don't know if that's possible.
posted by tel3path at 6:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
What form that would take, I've no idea.
It just reminds me of all the Hannibalian "might be able to tempt him into revealing himself" plots, except the guy they're trying to catch is completely guileless and without self-control so they wrap it up in less than 3 minutes and have to fill the rest of the episode with cryptic dialogue and meaningful glances.
It is tricky to discredit someone who's already revealed himself, though, so whatever pushed him over the edge it would have to be really extreme, and create an extremely negative public impression in ways he so far hasn't. I don't know if that's possible.
posted by tel3path at 6:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
cryptic dialogue and meaningful glances.
Basically the whole reason I own the Blu-Rays tbh.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Basically the whole reason I own the Blu-Rays tbh.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
1 - trump will be president
2 - his administration will be a clusterfuck of biblical proportions
3 - the republican party will want him gone sometime this year
4 - they cannot do this without the democrats
5 - the democrats should sell their cooperation in the impeachment and conviction of trump at a very high price - there is NOTHING to be gained by just going along with it - a more competent republican administration is a minus for them
6 - i think the odds of a corporate sponsored form of fascism are going to be pretty high - the fortune 500, etc, are going to figure out that giving the social justice movement most of what they want will cost them nothing, but social conservatism is too disruptive to be tolerated - on the other hand, economic justice is going to be right out - look for a centrist dictatorship
7 - this probably would have happened under a president clinton, too, but a lot more subtly
8 - the alternative will be trump acting as a bull in a china shop - he will bring chaos and stupidity to everything the u s government does
9 - i think the odds of a new government altogheter have increased - people have claimed that's impossible, as the constitution sets the bar too high for changes to be made - but the original articles of confederacy raisned the bar even higher and the whole process of our constitution - the convention, the delegations and the ratifications were actually illegal - (and there was no real alternative, so ...) - once our system is no longer percieved as legitimate, change will happen, even if the rural states don't want it
10 - this reminds me of the roman empire after augustus way too much ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
2 - his administration will be a clusterfuck of biblical proportions
3 - the republican party will want him gone sometime this year
4 - they cannot do this without the democrats
5 - the democrats should sell their cooperation in the impeachment and conviction of trump at a very high price - there is NOTHING to be gained by just going along with it - a more competent republican administration is a minus for them
6 - i think the odds of a corporate sponsored form of fascism are going to be pretty high - the fortune 500, etc, are going to figure out that giving the social justice movement most of what they want will cost them nothing, but social conservatism is too disruptive to be tolerated - on the other hand, economic justice is going to be right out - look for a centrist dictatorship
7 - this probably would have happened under a president clinton, too, but a lot more subtly
8 - the alternative will be trump acting as a bull in a china shop - he will bring chaos and stupidity to everything the u s government does
9 - i think the odds of a new government altogheter have increased - people have claimed that's impossible, as the constitution sets the bar too high for changes to be made - but the original articles of confederacy raisned the bar even higher and the whole process of our constitution - the convention, the delegations and the ratifications were actually illegal - (and there was no real alternative, so ...) - once our system is no longer percieved as legitimate, change will happen, even if the rural states don't want it
10 - this reminds me of the roman empire after augustus way too much ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
It just reminds me of all the Hannibalian "might be able to tempt him into revealing himself" plots, except the guy they're trying to catch is completely guileless and without self-control so they wrap it up in less than 3 minutes and have to fill the rest of the episode with cryptic dialogue and meaningful glances.
Might I propose all future U.S. politics thread by posted under FanFare as America: The Series so we can kvetch about how the writing has really jumped the shark?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Might I propose all future U.S. politics thread by posted under FanFare as America: The Series so we can kvetch about how the writing has really jumped the shark?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is not going to stop the (sad, pathetic) inauguration.
It might provide enough ammo, especially if we eventually get a solid FBI leak (which at this point I think is almost inevitable), to discredit Trump's whole campaign and staff and force impeachment hearings. Keep the pressure on him and eventually the scandal that has been brewing since THE FUCKING SUMMER will bubble up and coat them all in the stench of treason. I'm not being sarcastic, I don't think this is going away.
Now, what we end up with when the dust clears is a whole other story: civil unrest, zero confidence in governmental institutions, Republican vultures picking at the carcasses of the administration while the outnumbered Democrats try in vain to restore some semblance of operational order. President Trump is going to happen, but I don't think it's going to last.
posted by lydhre at 6:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
It might provide enough ammo, especially if we eventually get a solid FBI leak (which at this point I think is almost inevitable), to discredit Trump's whole campaign and staff and force impeachment hearings. Keep the pressure on him and eventually the scandal that has been brewing since THE FUCKING SUMMER will bubble up and coat them all in the stench of treason. I'm not being sarcastic, I don't think this is going away.
Now, what we end up with when the dust clears is a whole other story: civil unrest, zero confidence in governmental institutions, Republican vultures picking at the carcasses of the administration while the outnumbered Democrats try in vain to restore some semblance of operational order. President Trump is going to happen, but I don't think it's going to last.
posted by lydhre at 6:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
About Trump's frenzied denials - I choose not to concentrate on the words he says, but look into his heart.
The guiltyflee tweet a series of indignant all-caps denials at 4:00 AM when none pursueth.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
The guilty
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump is going to be president. We're probably better off with him as president fucking everything up and dividing his party than we are with Pence, who is - and I say this as one who has relatives in Indiana - evil and also incredibly mediocre in a way that fools a lot of people.
Pence would also suck, in normal-ish ways, but
Trump: Weirdly charismatic, at least to racist jackholes, and has proven an ability to get awful anglos to crawl out of their burrows and vote for him, and there is some danger that they will do so again if they're not too pissed at him because brown and queer people still exist in four years.
Pence: All the charisma of a boiled potato and has proven an ability to get Indiana to hate him, even the racist jackholes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Pence would also suck, in normal-ish ways, but
Trump: Weirdly charismatic, at least to racist jackholes, and has proven an ability to get awful anglos to crawl out of their burrows and vote for him, and there is some danger that they will do so again if they're not too pissed at him because brown and queer people still exist in four years.
Pence: All the charisma of a boiled potato and has proven an ability to get Indiana to hate him, even the racist jackholes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
This whole thing certainly does reveal how much we rely on guilty people actually acting guilty when caught.
Here's this guy who blatantly in front of everyone sits around with his dick out and everyone is like, "Bro, your dick is out, put it away" and he just sits there, dick out, going, "No it isn't." And eventually everyone else just decides to go on about their business with a dick in the room because... what else are you going to do?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Here's this guy who blatantly in front of everyone sits around with his dick out and everyone is like, "Bro, your dick is out, put it away" and he just sits there, dick out, going, "No it isn't." And eventually everyone else just decides to go on about their business with a dick in the room because... what else are you going to do?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Meanwhile, do any people with psychiatric chops know when a narcissist thrust into a challenging and hostile environment becomes unable to function? What would the signs of an incipient breakdown and inability to cope look like?
Typically, this is when the man would murder his wife/family and then kill himself. I'm not sure how that will map to the national stage.
Am I totally, irrevocably wet if I find this a bit... off?
posted by ominous_paws at 6:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Typically, this is when the man would murder his wife/family and then kill himself. I'm not sure how that will map to the national stage.
Am I totally, irrevocably wet if I find this a bit... off?
posted by ominous_paws at 6:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
1 - trump will be president
2 - his administration will be a clusterfuck of biblical proportions...
yabut it could have been worse we could have had a president who had a seperate email server
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
2 - his administration will be a clusterfuck of biblical proportions...
yabut it could have been worse we could have had a president who had a seperate email server
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Here's this guy who blatantly in front of everyone sits around with his dick out and everyone is like, "Bro, your dick is out, put it away" and he just sits there, dick out, going, "No it isn't." And eventually everyone else just decides to go on about their business with a dick in the room because... what else are you going to do?
Not to beat a dead horse here, but this was the problem with Rob Ford. At press conferences where reporters were asking him about hanging around and smoking crack with people who were subjects of active homicide investigations, he literally responded "Anything else?" over and over again.
If the answer to the question "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" is "Hell, no," whaddayagonnado?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
Not to beat a dead horse here, but this was the problem with Rob Ford. At press conferences where reporters were asking him about hanging around and smoking crack with people who were subjects of active homicide investigations, he literally responded "Anything else?" over and over again.
If the answer to the question "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" is "Hell, no," whaddayagonnado?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
Here's this guy who blatantly in front of everyone sits around with his dick out and everyone is like, "Bro, your dick is out, put it away" and he just sits there, dick out, going, "No it isn't." And eventually everyone else just decides to go on about their business with a dick in the room because... what else are you going to do?
So many Rob Ford flashbacks.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
So many Rob Ford flashbacks.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
jinx
posted by saturday_morning at 6:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 6:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
there is NOTHING to be gained by just going along with it - a more competent republican administration is a minus for them
I would like to avoid a nuclear war, please and thank you. I see that as a big plus.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
I would like to avoid a nuclear war, please and thank you. I see that as a big plus.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
And does anyone get the sense that a big part of what's motived Trump all along is a desire for vengeance on Obama for cutting him to pieces in that White House Correspondents' Dinner back in 2011? That that particular humiliation, when Trump attended his first official political event after bloviating about the birther nonsense, when he was made a fool in public; that's what set the gears in motion as far as a Whitehouse run?
I think this is a bit of problematic Obama blaming. Trump had been making presidential noises for a long time (a decade?) before Obama burned him to a crisp at the Correspondent's Dinner. My guess would be was that he was waiting for the campaign funding oversight to get lax enough for his style of fraud and 2016 certainly was!
posted by srboisvert at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think this is a bit of problematic Obama blaming. Trump had been making presidential noises for a long time (a decade?) before Obama burned him to a crisp at the Correspondent's Dinner. My guess would be was that he was waiting for the campaign funding oversight to get lax enough for his style of fraud and 2016 certainly was!
posted by srboisvert at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
What is especially interesting to me about this dossier leak is how it has crystallized everything in my own mind. We've been getting drips and drabs of information for months now-- different shifting facets of the same crazy kaleidoscope of a story. Now the picture is starting to come into focus and make sense. Paul Manafort's ties to Putin AND Roger Stone and the $16 million secret payment. Carter Page. Trump getting bailed out by the Russian mob.
Assange becoming pro-Putin and Wikileaks helping Trump's campaign. Jill Stein and Michael Flynn's meetings with Putin. Manafort taking over Trump's campaign and Trump going full on Putin Positive. Trump getting the RNC to change the Ukraine plank. Manafort getting "fired" but staying on in Trump Tower. Trump choosing Rex Tillerson. Trump softening and/or changing nearly every policy except his pro-Putin stance. Trump choosing to believe Russia over his own country's intel.
What has Trump done that has been proved to be illegal?
Congress does not have to prove anything in order to impeach him. The emoluments clause is basis enough and it isn't like a legal trial-- they just have to vote.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Assange becoming pro-Putin and Wikileaks helping Trump's campaign. Jill Stein and Michael Flynn's meetings with Putin. Manafort taking over Trump's campaign and Trump going full on Putin Positive. Trump getting the RNC to change the Ukraine plank. Manafort getting "fired" but staying on in Trump Tower. Trump choosing Rex Tillerson. Trump softening and/or changing nearly every policy except his pro-Putin stance. Trump choosing to believe Russia over his own country's intel.
What has Trump done that has been proved to be illegal?
Congress does not have to prove anything in order to impeach him. The emoluments clause is basis enough and it isn't like a legal trial-- they just have to vote.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
If I had to sum up the different flaws in the allegedly unfair left and right wing media, it would be simplest to point out that:
1) nobody in the left-wing media ran with this story even with a warning about the lack of corroboration, and yet
2) the claims that the Clintons have a) taken bribes; b) killed various people; c) secretly hate black people; d) had forcible sex with children in a pizza place have run all election season.
posted by jaduncan at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
1) nobody in the left-wing media ran with this story even with a warning about the lack of corroboration, and yet
2) the claims that the Clintons have a) taken bribes; b) killed various people; c) secretly hate black people; d) had forcible sex with children in a pizza place have run all election season.
posted by jaduncan at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
One person who could stop this is Putin, who could reveal all and ask him to resign. And if Putin makes the calculation that Trump could become dangerously unhinged to the point of wanting to provoke a suicidal nuclear exchange, he could do this before the inauguration. If you were Putin, who is many bad things but is extremely good at weighing risk at geopolitical levels, what would you do?
I mean, this is absolutely bonkers impossible trash thriller stuff. But we are living in absolutely bonkers impossible trash thriller stuffland.
I really don't want to watch the Trump presser, but I have a horrified compulsion building.
posted by Devonian at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, this is absolutely bonkers impossible trash thriller stuff. But we are living in absolutely bonkers impossible trash thriller stuffland.
I really don't want to watch the Trump presser, but I have a horrified compulsion building.
posted by Devonian at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
He seems charismatic now because after eight years of a politically correct, polite, learned, circumspect and careful President, during which right wingers actually did start to face some pushback on the shit they said in everyday life...
A rude, impulsive, violent ignoramus who is openly racist and sexist and can assault women with absolute impunity, feels like a breath of fresh air to some of those people. I'm guessing maybe to less than the 27% of the population who actually voted for him.
I would guess for some of that 27% the charm would wear off eventually, but if most of them aren't alienated by now they probably never will be.
posted by tel3path at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
A rude, impulsive, violent ignoramus who is openly racist and sexist and can assault women with absolute impunity, feels like a breath of fresh air to some of those people. I'm guessing maybe to less than the 27% of the population who actually voted for him.
I would guess for some of that 27% the charm would wear off eventually, but if most of them aren't alienated by now they probably never will be.
posted by tel3path at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
the outnumbered Democrats try in vain to restore some semblance of operational order
they can obstruct the conviction of president trump - which means they can demand some things - the approval of obama's supreme court pick? - the continuation of obamacare? - a new voting rights act that will eliminate gerrymandering?
"give us what we want first and we'll vote to convict trump - otherwise, you're stuck with him"
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
they can obstruct the conviction of president trump - which means they can demand some things - the approval of obama's supreme court pick? - the continuation of obamacare? - a new voting rights act that will eliminate gerrymandering?
"give us what we want first and we'll vote to convict trump - otherwise, you're stuck with him"
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
emoluments
kompromat
Is this a political crisis or a word-of-the-day calendar?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
kompromat
Is this a political crisis or a word-of-the-day calendar?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Not to beat a dead horse here, but this was the problem with Rob Ford.
The Toronto Star's Washington correspondent is Daniel Dale, who was also their point man on the whole Rob Ford story. He has tweeted about the remarkable sense of déjà vu he has been dealing with.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Toronto Star's Washington correspondent is Daniel Dale, who was also their point man on the whole Rob Ford story. He has tweeted about the remarkable sense of déjà vu he has been dealing with.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
they can obstruct the conviction of president trump - which means they can demand some things - the approval of obama's supreme court pick? - the continuation of obamacare? - a new voting rights act that will eliminate gerrymandering?
"give us what we want first and we'll vote to convict trump - otherwise, you're stuck with him"
pyramid termite, how in the world do you think that's going to play out if the reason for impeachment is "we have evidence of Russian collusion at the highest levels of the campaign ultimately compromising national security"?
I mean, this is political fanfic all around, but obstructing would be SUICIDAL for the Dems.
posted by lydhre at 7:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
"give us what we want first and we'll vote to convict trump - otherwise, you're stuck with him"
pyramid termite, how in the world do you think that's going to play out if the reason for impeachment is "we have evidence of Russian collusion at the highest levels of the campaign ultimately compromising national security"?
I mean, this is political fanfic all around, but obstructing would be SUICIDAL for the Dems.
posted by lydhre at 7:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
And yeah I get how it's unlikely the inauguration would be stopped but I also doubt it's coincidental that this comes out before the inauguration and immediately before the outgoing president officially leaves. And possibly after Sessions but before Tillerson.
I mean if it truly were breaking news, even then the timing would be suspicious to suddenly go "omg! I had no idea he had ties to Russia!"
And yes i get that he is a mercenary, that only makes it more telling that he so consistently supports who he does, regardless of who that is. It doesn't make him not an agent for whoever pulls the strings.
posted by tel3path at 7:02 AM on January 11, 2017
I mean if it truly were breaking news, even then the timing would be suspicious to suddenly go "omg! I had no idea he had ties to Russia!"
And yes i get that he is a mercenary, that only makes it more telling that he so consistently supports who he does, regardless of who that is. It doesn't make him not an agent for whoever pulls the strings.
posted by tel3path at 7:02 AM on January 11, 2017
My prediction is that his time in the sun ends the same way as the rule of Emperor Valentinian, except a lot faster.
I mean, we're talking about a fairly elderly man, with legendarily terrible emotional control, taking on a job which every day challenges the patience, temper, and equanimity of every single person who has ever held it. He is entering this job despised by an unprecedentedly high proportion of the public, and subjected rightly to ridicule for the many absurd and stupid things he's done and said.
i'd put money on aneurysm, seriously.
posted by jackbishop at 7:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, we're talking about a fairly elderly man, with legendarily terrible emotional control, taking on a job which every day challenges the patience, temper, and equanimity of every single person who has ever held it. He is entering this job despised by an unprecedentedly high proportion of the public, and subjected rightly to ridicule for the many absurd and stupid things he's done and said.
i'd put money on aneurysm, seriously.
posted by jackbishop at 7:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
@Ron_Skolnik .@BBCWorld: Intel Cmty considers damning info re Trump 'credible', not yet 'factual', and is coming from multiple sources, with audio/video.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
pyramid termite, how in the world do you think that's going to play out if the reason for impeachment is "we have evidence of Russian collusion at the highest levels of the campaign ultimately compromising national security"?
you forget that a substantial portion of the american people will never in a million years believe that, even if they watch it repeatedly on videotape - the trumpists may well revolt - and by having trump as the president, the republican party has already committed suicide - they just don't know it yet
also - it's not as if the democrats have to make this deal publically - oh, and the dems have also committed suicide - they just don't know it yet
god help us
posted by pyramid termite at 7:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
you forget that a substantial portion of the american people will never in a million years believe that, even if they watch it repeatedly on videotape - the trumpists may well revolt - and by having trump as the president, the republican party has already committed suicide - they just don't know it yet
also - it's not as if the democrats have to make this deal publically - oh, and the dems have also committed suicide - they just don't know it yet
god help us
posted by pyramid termite at 7:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Seems more of a round trip phrase, though? компрометировать is a borrowed verb, as verbs ending in овать usually are, and материал isn't of Slavonic origin either.
True, but I would wager that a thorough search of online news stories in English would find more instances of kompromat on January 10, 2017 than in the whole of the previous decade. I was a young adult during the Gorbachev era, and I recall glasnost and perestroika becoming recognizable terms in English, but not in the course of a few hours.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
True, but I would wager that a thorough search of online news stories in English would find more instances of kompromat on January 10, 2017 than in the whole of the previous decade. I was a young adult during the Gorbachev era, and I recall glasnost and perestroika becoming recognizable terms in English, but not in the course of a few hours.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
And yeah I get how it's unlikely the inauguration would be stopped but I also doubt it's coincidental that this comes out before the inauguration and immediately before the outgoing president officially leaves.
The have to inaugurate him in order to impeach him. Other than him voluntarily stepping down there is absolutely no mechanism to keep him out of office except impeachment.
posted by anastasiav at 7:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
The have to inaugurate him in order to impeach him. Other than him voluntarily stepping down there is absolutely no mechanism to keep him out of office except impeachment.
posted by anastasiav at 7:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Rex Tillerson is up at bat and so far is saying Isis should be our number one priority, China is a valuable ally in curbing radical Islam and:
@juliaioffe: Wow. #RexTillerson calls out Russia for "invading Ukraine, taking Crimea," and aiding atrocities in Syria.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
@juliaioffe: Wow. #RexTillerson calls out Russia for "invading Ukraine, taking Crimea," and aiding atrocities in Syria.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
not gonna lie, I keep hoping that Obama goes to a secret room in the WH and cracks an ancient seal to reveal the Framer's emergency instructions in such a situation that would solve the problem, but for now, I'm just grimly bitter. Chickens gonna come home to roost.
Unfortunately, I think that means a lot of human suffering that leads to social disorder. I'm just some rube but I wonder if it's sort of a race to see if democracy will beat societal breakdown. I guess it's understandable that Obama and the Clintons are on the side of democracy.
Either way, history has its eyes on you Sr Donald, and history will not be kind. You will have tainted your descendants for generations. People will desecrate your grave.
/spits
posted by angrycat at 7:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Unfortunately, I think that means a lot of human suffering that leads to social disorder. I'm just some rube but I wonder if it's sort of a race to see if democracy will beat societal breakdown. I guess it's understandable that Obama and the Clintons are on the side of democracy.
Either way, history has its eyes on you Sr Donald, and history will not be kind. You will have tainted your descendants for generations. People will desecrate your grave.
/spits
posted by angrycat at 7:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
David French, over at the National Review, is making sure to take time away from his talking about how crazy the kompromat is, to ensure that we hear how much he is pissed at congressman who may have leaked it. Rick Wilson is on Twitter saying that he tried to get this out earlier, and got no takers. Aside from him and Evan McMullin, Republican Twitter is eerily quiet.
posted by corb at 7:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Was going to listen to a second day of confirmation hearings but Tillerson's voice is grating because my brain keeps warning me there's a bullshitter in the room.
I keep thinking of these protestors, who are ushered out, and the exorbitantly rich old white guys ignore the fundamental question of the protestors as they stop their verbal white-paper for just a few seconds: who the fuck are you and what do you want with my government?
posted by sylvanshine at 7:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I keep thinking of these protestors, who are ushered out, and the exorbitantly rich old white guys ignore the fundamental question of the protestors as they stop their verbal white-paper for just a few seconds: who the fuck are you and what do you want with my government?
posted by sylvanshine at 7:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Okay, so what I'm hearing is, Rex Tillerson knows how to lie a lot better than Trump does?
posted by saturday_morning at 7:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Republican Twitter is eerily quiet.
I am sure they are scrambling to evaluate how bad the situation is. Can you imagine the conversations Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are having right this minute?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I am sure they are scrambling to evaluate how bad the situation is. Can you imagine the conversations Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are having right this minute?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yes I get it, Greg Nog. I get how the average person is and feels alienated from the political process.
That said, I have formerly Russian friends who say they wouldn't wish a Russian-ruled world on anyone. I think the average person doesn't realize how much worse it can get for them. But that (sadly, and proving your point) is a bit of a digression (I know, right).
It's that I've been simply astonished that people in power, who were in a position to do something and do have something to lose, and who we've been led to believe would never allow something like this to happen, have allowed this to happen.
Now that this scandal is out it feels like the other shoe has finally dropped.
I'm not saying this is going to save us from anything before or after the inauguration, but it's evidence that at least someone out there has finally reacted in ways I'd expect. Whereas if everyone just kept going along as they have, I'd think the world I've been living in was radically different from the one I thought I'd been living in.
posted by tel3path at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
That said, I have formerly Russian friends who say they wouldn't wish a Russian-ruled world on anyone. I think the average person doesn't realize how much worse it can get for them. But that (sadly, and proving your point) is a bit of a digression (I know, right).
It's that I've been simply astonished that people in power, who were in a position to do something and do have something to lose, and who we've been led to believe would never allow something like this to happen, have allowed this to happen.
Now that this scandal is out it feels like the other shoe has finally dropped.
I'm not saying this is going to save us from anything before or after the inauguration, but it's evidence that at least someone out there has finally reacted in ways I'd expect. Whereas if everyone just kept going along as they have, I'd think the world I've been living in was radically different from the one I thought I'd been living in.
posted by tel3path at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Aside from him and Evan McMullin, Republican Twitter is eerily quiet.
They're just trying to hold back the flow.
posted by drezdn at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
They're just trying to hold back the flow.
posted by drezdn at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Part of me wonders if an entire generation or two of politicians are relearning quite what a bad idea it is to go to war with the CIA. It's an organisation that specialises in smearing people and muckraking in deniable ways. Trump openly wants to neuter them, and appears to be dirty as hell whilst acting in favour of their number one intelligence opponent. I'm not sure how he came to the conclusion it was all a good idea, although that could be applied to so many Trumpian things.
posted by jaduncan at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Rick Wilson is on Twitter saying that he tried to get this out earlier, and got no takers.
Oh god
The oppo droppo
posted by saturday_morning at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh god
The oppo droppo
posted by saturday_morning at 7:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Can you imagine the conversations Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are having right this minute?
"Paul, they're not talking about water polo and home renovations, are they?"
"No Mitch, it doesn't look like it."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Paul, they're not talking about water polo and home renovations, are they?"
"No Mitch, it doesn't look like it."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Little Rubio opening fire on all cylinders re: Russia and Trump with Tillerson. Trump really should've given him a cabinet post.
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
"welp guess there aint no harm in closin the piano and walkin out of the saloon for a hour or two while this one shakes out"
goddammit you know i'm not caught up on Westworld
posted by beerperson at 7:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
goddammit you know i'm not caught up on Westworld
posted by beerperson at 7:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
i'd put money on aneurysm, seriously.
If I believed Trump had foresight, or anyone on his team who could control him, I'd put money on credibly faking a health emergency so he could step down without having to face any music. Then he could "recover" and go on tours forever for his racist fanbase while Pence does all the work.
And yeah, the Dems are not likely to play hardball if the Republicans want them to go along with an impeachment (which I will believe happens when I see it). And I really don't expect them to or want them to because nukes.
posted by emjaybee at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
If I believed Trump had foresight, or anyone on his team who could control him, I'd put money on credibly faking a health emergency so he could step down without having to face any music. Then he could "recover" and go on tours forever for his racist fanbase while Pence does all the work.
And yeah, the Dems are not likely to play hardball if the Republicans want them to go along with an impeachment (which I will believe happens when I see it). And I really don't expect them to or want them to because nukes.
posted by emjaybee at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
So this is a bit of a problem. CNN is reporting that some other guy named Michael Cohen, not Trump's lawyer, was in Prague.
This could prove rather ugly.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
This could prove rather ugly.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd put money on credibly faking a health emergency so he could step down without having to face any music
I've had a little bit of my money on this for a while. I'm 1000% sure that he had no intention of actually being elected and immediately started thinking of ways he could get out of it while saving face.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've had a little bit of my money on this for a while. I'm 1000% sure that he had no intention of actually being elected and immediately started thinking of ways he could get out of it while saving face.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Okay, so what I'm hearing is, Rex Tillerson knows how to lie a lot better than Trump does?
Well, Tillerson is AFAIK an actually successful businessman instead of a jackass whose decisions consistently reduced his fortune, but who started with a big enough fortune to still have some left. So you would expect him to have a generally better-developed skill set.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, Tillerson is AFAIK an actually successful businessman instead of a jackass whose decisions consistently reduced his fortune, but who started with a big enough fortune to still have some left. So you would expect him to have a generally better-developed skill set.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dang, Little Marco.
"Let me ask you this, Mr. Tillerson. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
"Let me ask you this, Mr. Tillerson. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
If you're catching up, the Times has a useful summary: What We Know and Don’t Know About the Trump-Russia Dossier. "What we don't know" is winning.
posted by zachlipton at 7:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you were Putin, who is many bad things but is extremely good at weighing risk at geopolitical levels, what would you do?
Probably kick back, do a bit of risk-vs-reward gamble as American disarray inevitably climbs higher post-inauguration, and at some point when the stack of chips is high enough, only then stick the knife in Trump's back and twist it when it seems maximally humiliating to the US.
My quatloos are on this not happening till 2019 or so, though later this year wouldn't shock me either. I'm not enough of a statistician to knowledgeably calculate the, ah, pee-values however.
posted by Drastic at 7:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Probably kick back, do a bit of risk-vs-reward gamble as American disarray inevitably climbs higher post-inauguration, and at some point when the stack of chips is high enough, only then stick the knife in Trump's back and twist it when it seems maximally humiliating to the US.
My quatloos are on this not happening till 2019 or so, though later this year wouldn't shock me either. I'm not enough of a statistician to knowledgeably calculate the, ah, pee-values however.
posted by Drastic at 7:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who knew Marco Rubio would grill Tillerson so hard on Putin?
posted by notyou at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had been ignoring politics for the past week, but recent giggling on Twitter about golden showers brought me back to this thread.
God, why do I have write sentences like that?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
God, why do I have write sentences like that?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Jeez. Who knew Marco Rubio would grow a spine in 2017?
jinx, notyou
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
jinx, notyou
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Let me ask you this, Mr. Tillerson. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?"
You missed the coup de grace after Tillerson said no.
"Well, let me describe the situation in Aleppo..."
posted by Talez at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
You missed the coup de grace after Tillerson said no.
"Well, let me describe the situation in Aleppo..."
posted by Talez at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
In this particular moment in time, I am happy Rubio is my senator. I'm sure it will pass very shortly, but I will enjoy it for now.
posted by gatorae at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
In re alienated voters: the whole problem with alienated voters is precisely that their alienation precludes any detailed understanding of politics. "I feel like everything sucks and I have few resources, so I don't/can't seek out information about how, eg, life for the average person in Russia is actually worse than life for the average person in the US, or how much worse my life would be if Social Security were gutted".
I think there's a subtextual tendency to write about voters as if voter feelings have a truth value that's more than "it's true that this voter feels this way". Feeling alienated does not mean that if you act alienated everything will shake out, or that your feelings of alienation relieve you of the responsibility to make the best choice possible.
That was where I had a lot of trouble with various left friends in this election who would say "I hate Trump, but if the Democrats want me to vote for a Democrat, they should provide better candidates". And yes, it's perfectly true that the Democrats need to provide candidates who meet people's needs if they expect to win long-term, but that doesn't mean that you're relieved of responsibility if you're sitting there in cold blood saying "I feel alienated".
Voter alienation serves the Republicans (and conservative forces regardless of party) because voter alienation keeps people from bothering to find out how social security works, what daily life in Russia is actually like, whether a full-on authoritarian government is better or worse than the soft authoritarianism of a particular US regime, etc.
Voter alienation makes people think falsely that there are no differences between regimes, and smart people on the left fall prey to it as much as low information voters who are sorta vaguely right wing.
The world can try to alienate you, but you can also try to be not alienated; it's not a get out of moral responsibility free card.
posted by Frowner at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
I think there's a subtextual tendency to write about voters as if voter feelings have a truth value that's more than "it's true that this voter feels this way". Feeling alienated does not mean that if you act alienated everything will shake out, or that your feelings of alienation relieve you of the responsibility to make the best choice possible.
That was where I had a lot of trouble with various left friends in this election who would say "I hate Trump, but if the Democrats want me to vote for a Democrat, they should provide better candidates". And yes, it's perfectly true that the Democrats need to provide candidates who meet people's needs if they expect to win long-term, but that doesn't mean that you're relieved of responsibility if you're sitting there in cold blood saying "I feel alienated".
Voter alienation serves the Republicans (and conservative forces regardless of party) because voter alienation keeps people from bothering to find out how social security works, what daily life in Russia is actually like, whether a full-on authoritarian government is better or worse than the soft authoritarianism of a particular US regime, etc.
Voter alienation makes people think falsely that there are no differences between regimes, and smart people on the left fall prey to it as much as low information voters who are sorta vaguely right wing.
The world can try to alienate you, but you can also try to be not alienated; it's not a get out of moral responsibility free card.
posted by Frowner at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
I welcome any new spines at this point.
posted by lydhre at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
You missed the coup de grace after Tillerson said no.
"Well, let me describe the situation in Aleppo..."
And then continuing on to [paraphrasing], "Are you aware that people who oppose Vladimir Putin frequently wind up dead?"
That whole exchange was pretty choice, I encourage folks to go to c-span and rewind about 10 minutes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Sure, you haven't spoken with Trump about Russia. Never came up, I guess.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 7:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sure, you haven't spoken with Trump about Russia. Never came up, I guess.
After that exchange, the senator said "Pretty amazing."
posted by diogenes at 7:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
After that exchange, the senator said "Pretty amazing."
posted by diogenes at 7:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Who knew Marco Rubio would grill Tillerson so hard on Putin?
Knew? Few. But this is one of the reasons why organizing within the Republican Party, keeping the fires burning with staffers and mid level GOP and influencers who joined at one point to oppose Trump has so much value. Rubio isn't a NeverTrumper, but some of his staffers and key organizers who still have access are. Keeping them hot and angry keeps vectors of influence alive, and increases the possibility of shit like this.
posted by corb at 7:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
Knew? Few. But this is one of the reasons why organizing within the Republican Party, keeping the fires burning with staffers and mid level GOP and influencers who joined at one point to oppose Trump has so much value. Rubio isn't a NeverTrumper, but some of his staffers and key organizers who still have access are. Keeping them hot and angry keeps vectors of influence alive, and increases the possibility of shit like this.
posted by corb at 7:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
It's so telling that Tillerman views sanctions against countries like Russia as harming American business. That is basically everything you need to know about him.
posted by gatorae at 7:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Tillerson seems to be doing much worse than Sessions.
posted by diogenes at 7:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tillerson seems to be doing much worse than Sessions.
I'd wait and see who signs off on him, but his problems are more Trumpy than GOPy so I guess there might be actual push back?
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd wait and see who signs off on him, but his problems are more Trumpy than GOPy so I guess there might be actual push back?
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
goddammit you know i'm not caught up on Westworld
This is feeling more like Black Mirror.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is feeling more like Black Mirror.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm watching the Right Side Broadcasting stream of the (??still happening??) press conference and their commentator is breathlessly and defensively ranting about the dossier.
I just checked /r/the_donald and the entire page is talking about the dossier: of course, it's framed as "4CHAN TROLD LOL KEK DUMB LIBERALS" but it's still the only thing being talked about. No Spirit Cooking discussion today.
Whether or not this story is real or whether it goes anywhere, it is 100% embedded in the public consciousness now and the Trumpist wing is in full defense. Hard to see this as a bad thing.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I just checked /r/the_donald and the entire page is talking about the dossier: of course, it's framed as "4CHAN TROLD LOL KEK DUMB LIBERALS" but it's still the only thing being talked about. No Spirit Cooking discussion today.
Whether or not this story is real or whether it goes anywhere, it is 100% embedded in the public consciousness now and the Trumpist wing is in full defense. Hard to see this as a bad thing.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think the real story is Russian mafia and laundered money but I ALSO believe that anything that gets people laughing at Trump is a net positive because we've seen that he really really really cannot handle that. Accusing him of lying just rolls right off him because he doesn't understand what truth even is, but laughing at him? Unacceptable. Emasculating. Humiliating. Really the only way to set him wrong-footed and force him to do or say something really dumb in public.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
If a nominee is going to go down, my money is on Tillerson (or perhaps DeVos at this point).
Anyway, my prediction for the press conference is that we're going to be hearing an awful lot about how the memos apparently got the wrong Michael Cohen.
posted by zachlipton at 7:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anyway, my prediction for the press conference is that we're going to be hearing an awful lot about how the memos apparently got the wrong Michael Cohen.
posted by zachlipton at 7:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
This came to me when I woke up this morning:
"The Manchurine Candidate"
You're welcome.
posted by uosuaq at 7:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
"The Manchurine Candidate"
You're welcome.
posted by uosuaq at 7:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Really the only way to set him wrong-footed and force him to do or say something really dumb in public.
We would also accept 'default state of being'
posted by beerperson at 7:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
We would also accept 'default state of being'
posted by beerperson at 7:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I literally can't listen to Trump speak, so I'm humbly begging for some news conference liveblogging by anyone here who has the bandwidth.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh you can bet there's gonna be liveblogging
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yo yo yo yo yo! What time is it? Show time! [press conference video, starts in five minutes, alt link from CBS News]
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
In this particular moment in time, I am happy Rubio is my senator. I'm sure it will pass very shortly, but I will enjoy it for now.
Call his office like I just did and let him know! (202) 224-3041
posted by photoslob at 7:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Call his office like I just did and let him know! (202) 224-3041
posted by photoslob at 7:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
"The Manchurine Candidate"
I think "micturian" is slightly spiffier. (Someone else suggested it upthread.)
posted by Coventry at 7:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think "micturian" is slightly spiffier. (Someone else suggested it upthread.)
posted by Coventry at 7:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Urine luck, I'll be watching the stream and am happy to shower you with soundbytes.
posted by gatorae at 7:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 7:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yo yo yo yo yo! What time is it? Show time! [press conference video, starts in five minutes, alt link from CBS News]
They just moved out a long table with a black cloth. Looks like he's got some kind of showbiz stunt planned. Some kind of surprise panel of witnesses.
posted by dis_integration at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
They just moved out a long table with a black cloth. Looks like he's got some kind of showbiz stunt planned. Some kind of surprise panel of witnesses.
posted by dis_integration at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's too bad they couldn't find a flag or two for the press conference backdrop.
posted by birdheist at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by birdheist at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Coming so very late to the party, I just read President Obama's farewell speech and there is so much dust in the room
posted by Kitteh at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I want it to be like some Doctor Who episode where the power of all the people laughing at him makes him smaller and smaller and smaller until whoa he's an alien
posted by angrycat at 8:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 8:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
About Trump's frenzied denials - I choose not to concentrate on the words he says, but look into his heart
Gabrielle Union rips Trump and Kellyanne Conway: ‘I once looked into his heart. It grabbed my butt’
posted by Room 641-A at 8:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Gabrielle Union rips Trump and Kellyanne Conway: ‘I once looked into his heart. It grabbed my butt’
posted by Room 641-A at 8:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
I've never watched one of these before in entirely. Do they typically play what sounds like a Disney recording of The Battle Hymn of the Republic before it starts? It's giving the whole thing a near-parodic feel.
posted by maxsparber at 8:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 8:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Master's new regeneration sure is a step down from last time.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've never watched one of these before in entirely. Do they typically play what sounds like a Disney recording of The Battle Hymn of the Republic before it starts? It's giving the whole thing a near-parodic feel.
The various right-wing YouTube streams often use public domain music before and after.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The various right-wing YouTube streams often use public domain music before and after.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now, what we end up with when the dust clears is a whole other story
There's a parallel to Brexit, where there is clearly a constituency of Leave voters who think that once outside the EU Britain can go back to being the mother of the old empire issuing instructions to the colonies, and will get a proper fucking shock when nobody picks up the phone.
Nobody alive today really knows what global politics looks like with the US as a shambles. It has been in situations where it has done stupid things and damaging things, but never ones where it needs to be worked around.
posted by holgate at 8:03 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
There's a parallel to Brexit, where there is clearly a constituency of Leave voters who think that once outside the EU Britain can go back to being the mother of the old empire issuing instructions to the colonies, and will get a proper fucking shock when nobody picks up the phone.
Nobody alive today really knows what global politics looks like with the US as a shambles. It has been in situations where it has done stupid things and damaging things, but never ones where it needs to be worked around.
posted by holgate at 8:03 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Have they actually just started playing canned applause?
posted by MattWPBS at 8:05 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by MattWPBS at 8:05 AM on January 11, 2017
A room full of chanting redhats and nobody stands for the Anthem? Maybe it's the camera angle on my feed.
posted by Rykey at 8:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 8:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Re the live-stream (lol): Is he gonna start talking any time soon, or are they gonna keep playing music forever?
Not that I want him to talk, mind you...
posted by XtinaS at 8:06 AM on January 11, 2017
Not that I want him to talk, mind you...
posted by XtinaS at 8:06 AM on January 11, 2017
So weird to go through all of the C-SPANs and what's on every one of them looks interesting.
Of course, MSNBC has cut away from the SoS hearing to show an empty Trump-less podium, now that Senator Shaheen is asking about women's issues and reproductive health in the developing world.
posted by XMLicious at 8:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Of course, MSNBC has cut away from the SoS hearing to show an empty Trump-less podium, now that Senator Shaheen is asking about women's issues and reproductive health in the developing world.
posted by XMLicious at 8:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
i like that youtube has that Live Chat feature that you can try to ignore before you find the 'hide live chat' button
posted by beerperson at 8:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by beerperson at 8:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
While wait, Yglesias has a little article that hints at one of my worries, that these memos, as elements of them are disproven, will cause people to conflate scandals and doubt the many awful things that are provably true. There's plenty of stuff that we've known for months that is extremely disturbing without these memos, and it's nuts that we're setting ourselves up to ignore all these problematic things that we already know because some anonymous source identified the wrong Michael Cohen in Prague.
Anyway, they've now filled the tables with stacks of paperwork, so more theatrics seem to be planned.
posted by zachlipton at 8:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Anyway, they've now filled the tables with stacks of paperwork, so more theatrics seem to be planned.
posted by zachlipton at 8:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
They just moved out a long table with a black cloth. Looks like he's got some kind of showbiz stunt planned. Some kind of surprise panel of witnesses.
They've gone to the mattresses to arrange for some bodies to divert the press corps' pent up flood.
Of questions.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
They've gone to the mattresses to arrange for some bodies to divert the press corps' pent up flood.
Of questions.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's got stacks of papers on that table, which recalls this old photo. "Hey, I *showed* you my tax returns, didn't I?"
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Tillerson seems to be doing much worse than Sessions.
Jefferson Beauregard the Turd is a member of the greatest mass debating chamber, therefore comity and shit. Tillerson doesn't get the membership benefits.
posted by holgate at 8:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jefferson Beauregard the Turd is a member of the greatest mass debating chamber, therefore comity and shit. Tillerson doesn't get the membership benefits.
posted by holgate at 8:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
The trump meat is out!
posted by ominous_paws at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by ominous_paws at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2017
I never had heart palpitations waiting for a Bush press conference.
posted by diogenes at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
not gonna lie, I keep hoping that Obama goes to a secret room in the WH and cracks an ancient seal to reveal the Framer's emergency instructions in such a situation that would solve the problem
As I understand it, whenever the US is truly in peril a bald eagle will appear carrying a tricorn hat that belonged to Ben Franklin. The true POTUS will be able to pull George Washington's axe from this hat Franklin enchanted.
posted by asteria at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
As I understand it, whenever the US is truly in peril a bald eagle will appear carrying a tricorn hat that belonged to Ben Franklin. The true POTUS will be able to pull George Washington's axe from this hat Franklin enchanted.
posted by asteria at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
I'm watching the Right Side Broadcasting stream of the (??still happening??) press conference and their commentator is breathlessly and defensively ranting about the dossier.
This is the first time I've seen them truly rattled. Maybe Buzzfeed actually did something right.
posted by Talez at 8:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is the first time I've seen them truly rattled. Maybe Buzzfeed actually did something right.
posted by Talez at 8:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The trump meat is out!
A truly repellent mental image.
posted by jaduncan at 8:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
A truly repellent mental image.
posted by jaduncan at 8:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm betting against any questions from the press or him answering them.
posted by Artw at 8:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's not exactly a press conference then. It's a photo opp.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017
he's going to hold up the stack of paper and say it's a list of enemies against the state
posted by angrycat at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've learned to instinctively pick Bannon's head out in a crowd. I can feel his presence before I see it. Don't feel good.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
As I understand it, whenever the US is truly in peril a bald eagle will appear carrying a tricorn hat that belonged to Ben Franklin.
Is it this one?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is it this one?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Count me in with those deeply grateful for people able to liveblog this, I too have visceral reactions to Trump's voice at this point.
posted by corb at 8:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
The interim music, with the guitar and drums, sounds reminiscent of the track "Run Like Hell" by Pink Floyd. Irony?!?!?
posted by XtinaS at 8:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 8:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Santorum is on CNN trying to defend Trump and has the facial expression that one would have if it was just sprayed with santorum.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm going with a "THIS IS HOW MUCH PAPER it takes for me to file my taxes. How fucked up is that, amirite?" smokescreen.
posted by Rykey at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, he showed up.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
here comes daddy
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is the first time I've seen them truly rattled. Maybe Buzzfeed actually did something right.
I mean, they might have just snuffed out the last bit of trust some people had in anything resembling a journalistic enterprise, so I hope it was worth it.
posted by zachlipton at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017
I mean, they might have just snuffed out the last bit of trust some people had in anything resembling a journalistic enterprise, so I hope it was worth it.
posted by zachlipton at 8:14 AM on January 11, 2017
I wonder what last minute instructions he's getting.
posted by Jalliah at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
Here's Chump.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
Trump: [indistinguishable] 'not a crook... [...] resigning my captainship of leading [mumbled] pee pee poo poo'
posted by beerperson at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by beerperson at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
ugh, here he comes
I'm enjoying how whoever is running the music is failing SO MUCH at sound balance and timing. Damn.
posted by XtinaS at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
I'm enjoying how whoever is running the music is failing SO MUCH at sound balance and timing. Damn.
posted by XtinaS at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017
PEOTUS's first press conference starting with an attack on the media.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Who is this attack dog introducing Trump?
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PEE-DOC
"highly salacious and irresponsible"
WHAT IS THIS LIFE
posted by XtinaS at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017
"highly salacious and irresponsible"
WHAT IS THIS LIFE
posted by XtinaS at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017
Trump does not know Carter Page? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by localhuman at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
They just called Buzzfeed a "left wing blog."
posted by maxsparber at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 8:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Guys, at this point it is literally critical to [real] / [fake] tag, because we have apparently actually lost all ability to distinguish now.
posted by corb at 8:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [46 favorites]
Oh I've never seen sean spicer before I guess.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:17 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:17 AM on January 11, 2017
He really can't do anything without his kids being with him can he.
posted by Jalliah at 8:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh good he brought his kids along
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Breathe louder, Mike. We can't hear it. /s
posted by Talez at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can we just use "[real/fake]" for everything from here on out?
posted by Rykey at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be fair, I bet there are a lot of Michael Cohens. Probably not as many as, say, Josh Cohens, but still.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think they confused a press conference with a rally.
posted by diogenes at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pence: I've long been a supporter of a free press and always will be. But... [real]
posted by gatorae at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Pence is rushing. I've never seen him with this cadence before.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017
I like the way the little badge on the lectern above The Office Of The President Elect looks like a no entry sign.
posted by dng at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dng at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I have always supported a free and independent press"
Right Mikey, that's why you tried to set up your own news propaganda agency here in Indiana.
Fucker.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Right Mikey, that's why you tried to set up your own news propaganda agency here in Indiana.
Fucker.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's crazy to me how hard they're fighting back against the Buzzfeed dossier, you think they'd be best to just ignore it and say it's obviously false.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
vp-elect says "mainstream media" - is that normal?
posted by progosk at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by progosk at 8:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The applause throughout has been *real* thin, huh.
posted by ominous_paws at 8:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 8:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It would be a "tremendous blot" on the record of the intelligence agencies "if they released the fake news."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean... he knows all his supporters only read Breitbart, right?
posted by Mayor West at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah, he's attacking the media and intel agencies now (maybe they released it? maybe?) except for "some news organizations" that will I guess not be named but you know who you are right foxnews
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"we maybe won the nomination because of press conferences" what [real]
posted by XtinaS at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by XtinaS at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017
Come on, start taking questions!
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2017
And right into the lies about how his jawboning saved jobs
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:22 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:22 AM on January 11, 2017
he don't look comfy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:22 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:22 AM on January 11, 2017
vp-elect says "mainstream media" - is that normal?
Naturally no. Normally one would not attempt to immediately disparage and discount the views of the the majority of the reporters that are then going to write the coverage of the press conference that is about to start.
posted by jaduncan at 8:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Naturally no. Normally one would not attempt to immediately disparage and discount the views of the the majority of the reporters that are then going to write the coverage of the press conference that is about to start.
posted by jaduncan at 8:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I won't actually believe he'll answer one single question until he does. This isn't going to be a press conference, it's going to be a show.
posted by lydhre at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
He's actually talking about Ms. Nazi Salute's fake blog when he talks about which media aren't the enemy.(Lifezett) And Breitbart too, I suppose.
posted by Yowser at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope someone calls him on the fact that Fiat made that decision before the election.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by zombieflanders at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2017
Is Trump...even saying anything? He's just BABBLING. If I wasn't at work, I'd take a shot every time he says the word "tremendous." And then I'd blissfully pass out.
posted by Aquifer at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Aquifer at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
WTF, he's just reciting the last three weeks of his Twitter feed.
What a world.
posted by notyou at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
What a world.
posted by notyou at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's crazy to me how hard they're fighting back against the Buzzfeed dossier, you think they'd be best to just ignore it and say it's obviously false.
Which with Donald could mean that it is real and since it's serious they feel they really need to fight it or Donald's ego has told them that they have to fight it because it's humiliating (and serious).
Most PR in situations like this would be all, sure mention, be short, precise and then move on.
posted by Jalliah at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
It would be a "tremendous blot" on the record of the intelligence agencies "if they released the fake news."
Still haven't learned their lesson about fighting with the intelligence services, eh? Pro-tip to the would-be dictators: Putin IS FSB. The Russian intelligence services are the major source of his grip on power. Feuding with the FBI/CIA in combination with pissing off the majority of Americans is a great way to become a weak one-term president.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Still haven't learned their lesson about fighting with the intelligence services, eh? Pro-tip to the would-be dictators: Putin IS FSB. The Russian intelligence services are the major source of his grip on power. Feuding with the FBI/CIA in combination with pissing off the majority of Americans is a great way to become a weak one-term president.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
So, did they hand out yellow parkas inside the splash zone like they do at Seaworld?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
These constant promises to be the greatest jobs president EVAH are going to run great in attack ads when the unemployment rate goes back up.
posted by chris24 at 8:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Obama’s famous last words
President Obama delivered his farewell address in Chicago on Tuesday night. This is not quite what he said.
Hello.
This will definitely not be the last coherent speech you hear for at least four years.
I will begin by thanking the city of Chicago and quoting from the Constitution — by no means a quaint, outdated document that you will never hear from again.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
President Obama delivered his farewell address in Chicago on Tuesday night. This is not quite what he said.
Hello.
This will definitely not be the last coherent speech you hear for at least four years.
I will begin by thanking the city of Chicago and quoting from the Constitution — by no means a quaint, outdated document that you will never hear from again.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
important, The Watchful Hermit on the youtube livechat said 'Read John 3:16. It is never too late. IXOYE' [real]
posted by beerperson at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by beerperson at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Those states [that voted for him] are going to have a lot of jobs, they're going to have a lot of security." So we're just showering rewards on your voters now?
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump making news, nominating David Shulkin as VA Secretary
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:26 AM on January 11, 2017
Christ, I just don't think I'm going to be able to stomach—especially after watching Obama speak last night—eight years of a POTUS who plans nothing he's going to say publicly, ever. I know I'm not the target audience for his mouth diarrhea, but even in the interest of staying up on the news I just don't think I can do it.
posted by Rykey at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The only thing Trump can do is drink some lemon juice and make "lemonade".
posted by blue_beetle at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
So it's only going to be military bands at the inauguration, then.Sounds about right.
posted by progosk at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by progosk at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017
My coworker and I have agreed will we do shots of water whenever Trump says "tremendous." We will be very, very well hydrated. SO WELL HYDRATED. TREMENDOUSLY HYDRATED. God has provided us with water and we will make an empire of it.
posted by Aquifer at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Aquifer at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Has he just promised to send jobs to the states that voted for him?
posted by MattWPBS at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by MattWPBS at 8:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
"i will be the greatest jobs-producer that god has ever created" is a good line if you're curious about trump's ideas about theology and what exactly the divine does
Been a while since I've read the Book of Job, but I don't remember seeing that in there.
posted by zachlipton at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Been a while since I've read the Book of Job, but I don't remember seeing that in there.
posted by zachlipton at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Shulkin is actually okay, he's currently VA PDUSH and doing okay things.
posted by klarck at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by klarck at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rykey: "Can we just use "[real/fake]" for everything from here on out?"
Can't it just all be fake?
posted by chavenet at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can't it just all be fake?
posted by chavenet at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
'My fellow Americans, milk, milk, lemonade,'
posted by beerperson at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
THAT was the total of his pre-prepared statement, and now we're onto questions?
posted by MattWPBS at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by MattWPBS at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Shulkin is already an Undersecretary at VA, and he was an Obama appointee, so it's not as if Trump's shaking things up there.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
My coworker and I have agreed will we do shots of water whenever Trump says "tremendous." We will be very, very well hydrated. SO WELL HYDRATED. TREMENDOUSLY HYDRATED.
bruh you gonna die
posted by entropicamericana at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
bruh you gonna die
posted by entropicamericana at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Has he just promised to send jobs to the states that voted for him?
Nah, he's just gonna take credit for the hiring that companies do as part of normal operations.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nah, he's just gonna take credit for the hiring that companies do as part of normal operations.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Q: "What do you think of the report blaming Putin for the hacks?"
A: "Let me talk about pee some more."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
A: "Let me talk about pee some more."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
So the president says "crap" now in press conferences apparently.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Shulkin would be the first non-vet to run the VA. He is currently the undersecretary of health at the VA.
posted by zachlipton at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"As far as the hacking, I think it was Russia." Boom.
posted by Mothlight at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mothlight at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's crazy to me how hard they're fighting back against the Buzzfeed dossier, you think they'd be best to just ignore it and say it's obviously false.
I'm sympathetic to this view, but remember that Trump is exactly the sort of person who's insanely easy to bait because he's so fragile- he would never, ever understand just rolling his eyes at it. ANY attack, however frivolous or asinine, he's going to strike back as though it were an existential threat.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm sympathetic to this view, but remember that Trump is exactly the sort of person who's insanely easy to bait because he's so fragile- he would never, ever understand just rolling his eyes at it. ANY attack, however frivolous or asinine, he's going to strike back as though it were an existential threat.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
"sick people, and they put that crap together" Trump says about the dossier.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile… Mexico peso hits record low on Trump uncertainty, more weakening feared…
posted by Omon Ra at 8:30 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Omon Ra at 8:30 AM on January 11, 2017
"As far as hacking, I think it was Russia, but I think we also get hacked by Russia, by other people. But when we lost 22 million names...they didn't make a big deal out of that. That was probably China." [real] Goes on to discuss how many "great computer minds" we have.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is disgusting.
posted by Talez at 8:30 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:30 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
"We have much hacking going on"
This guy is ridiculous.
posted by Jalliah at 8:31 AM on January 11, 2017
remember that Trump is exactly the sort of person who's insanely easy to bait because he's so fragile- he would never, ever understand just rolling his eyes at it.
People talk about how Biff in BTTF2 is based on Trump but in some respects Marty is too
posted by beerperson at 8:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
People talk about how Biff in BTTF2 is based on Trump but in some respects Marty is too
posted by beerperson at 8:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Holy cow. This guy. Totally unprepared.
And yet, it's all about how everything is great, gonna be fantastic, we're gonna make the F-35 even better, get the best drugs, we've got a lot of talent, we've got "some of the greatest computer minds" [real], etc, etc.
I think we've talked about this before, but that all sounds nice. It's an interesting way to gain appeal.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
And yet, it's all about how everything is great, gonna be fantastic, we're gonna make the F-35 even better, get the best drugs, we've got a lot of talent, we've got "some of the greatest computer minds" [real], etc, etc.
I think we've talked about this before, but that all sounds nice. It's an interesting way to gain appeal.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump making news, nominating David Shulkin as VA Secretary
The drawback of creating a polity based on celebrity where nobody cares about the details of policy is that it's going to take a rather larger rabbit out of the hat to outweigh the collusion/urine story.
posted by jaduncan at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The drawback of creating a polity based on celebrity where nobody cares about the details of policy is that it's going to take a rather larger rabbit out of the hat to outweigh the collusion/urine story.
posted by jaduncan at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
WE'RE GONNA MAKE EVERYTHING ELSE GREAT, LET'S TALK ABOUT LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"If Putin likes Donald Trump, I consider that an asset, not a liability ... Russia can help us fight Isis." It's a feature, not a bug!
posted by Mothlight at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mothlight at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
someone tell him he's not running for president anymore
posted by pyramid termite at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
he's fucking going on about how great it was that russia hacked the DNC.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is the promised press conference about conflicts of interests, right?
posted by Devonian at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's still talking about Clinton. Amazing.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
People talk about how Biff in BTTF2 is based on Trump but in some respects Marty is too
"Why won't you jail all the fascists, Donald? Are ya... CHICKEN?!?!"
I see a new strategy for Democrats moving forward!
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Why won't you jail all the fascists, Donald? Are ya... CHICKEN?!?!"
I see a new strategy for Democrats moving forward!
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
When asked about Putin working to help him, his response was "If Putin likes me, that's not a bad thing, that's an asset." WTF
posted by chris24 at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chris24 at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"If Putin likes Donald Trump, it's an asset that he likes me!"
YOU'RE the asset
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [60 favorites]
YOU'RE the asset
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [60 favorites]
Meanwhile… Mexico peso hits record low on Trump uncertainty, more weakening feared…
So Trump is making Mexican imports even more competitive! Thanks, Donnie Bumblefuck!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Trump is making Mexican imports even more competitive! Thanks, Donnie Bumblefuck!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Donald puts the ass in asset.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Come on ask him a real question. "This morning you tweeted you had no connections or debt with Russia. When will you release your tax returns to prove that, or do you think we should just believe you?"
Edit: oh yay someone said that
posted by fungible at 8:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Edit: oh yay someone said that
posted by fungible at 8:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
"I'm also very much of a germaphobe, by the way. Believe me." OMG.
posted by Mothlight at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Mothlight at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
He's saying that there are cameras in hotel rooms and you need to be careful about being recorded or you'll see yourself on TV... why?
posted by samthemander at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
He's virtually guaranteeing that everyone is going to go to the internet to find out what the hell he's talking about
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
On conflicts of interest. NYT: Trump Said Ready to Turn Business Over to Trust Run by Sons and Associate
President-elect Donald J. Trump, insisting he will not divest himself of his vast business empire as he prepares to assume the presidency, plans instead to turn over all of his business operations to a trust controlled by his two oldest sons and a longtime associate, top officials with his company said Wednesday.posted by zachlipton at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He will donate to the United States government all profits from foreign government payments to his hotels, the officials said, describing the arrangements as voluntary measures taken to answer concerns about potential conflicts of interest that would allow Mr. Trump to focus on running the country.
The Trump Organization will also refrain from entering into any new deals with foreign partners, his legal advisers said, backing off from an earlier claim by Mr. Trump that his company would have “no new deals” of any kind during his presidency. Instead, the Trump enterprise will have to clear any new transactions with an ethics adviser to be chosen by the president-elect in coming days. That ethics adviser will vet them for potential conflicts, using a standard that his advisers said had not yet been agreed upon.
He's talking about Moscow Miss Universe now, and how he's a germaphobe and is careful in hotels, then segues into how he has no deals in Russia
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017
Forget 'do you think we'll believe you.' He promised to release them if elected.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Trump is making Mexican imports even more competitive! Thanks, Donnie Bumblefuck!
No, he's wiping out my life savings and bringing in inflation.
posted by Omon Ra at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, he's wiping out my life savings and bringing in inflation.
posted by Omon Ra at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"In those rooms, you have cameras in the strangest places"
Like Mar-A-Lago, where he recorded women getting undressed.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Like Mar-A-Lago, where he recorded women getting undressed.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
"My middle eastern friend, great guy, look him up, just tried to bribe me"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Over the weekend I was offered a $2 Bill deal in Dubai"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He said he was offered $2 billion to do a deal in Dubai, and he turned it down, but he could have if he wanted to because he's President
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
"As you know, I have a no conflict situation, because I'm the president."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
he realized three months ago that he has a no-conflict-of-interest provision as president
this is the leader of the free world FFS
posted by sylvanshine at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
this is the leader of the free world FFS
posted by sylvanshine at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
@BenjySarlin: Trump says he was just offered a $2 billion deal by a foreign actor to REASSURE us about conflicts?
posted by zombieflanders at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
but he could have if he wanted to because he's President
And he didn't "know about the no-conflict thing until 3 months ago"! [real]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
And he didn't "know about the no-conflict thing until 3 months ago"! [real]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
With Donald I gotta wonder if that amazing 'If Putin likes me it's an asset' came out of his brain using the word asset because he's been hearing about people accusing him of being a Russian asset.
I know I should be over it by now but I still can't get over at how bad he is with his words. Like if you're being accused of being a Russian asset you don't use the fucking word in any sentence.
posted by Jalliah at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
So basically no divesting, his sons will run everything, he'll keep taking foreign money but give some profits to the treasury. There's no plan here.
And he's claiming he didn't know conflicts of interest were a thing until "three months ago."
posted by zachlipton at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
And he's claiming he didn't know conflicts of interest were a thing until "three months ago."
posted by zachlipton at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
holy fuck. the tax returns comments.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
We've elected late-period Howard Hughes as president, FFS.
posted by drezdn at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Appointing David Shulkin is interesting, because all of the veteran organizations have been asking him to keep Bob McDonald. So instead, they're keeping a totally different guy Obama appointed.
posted by corb at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He says the no conflicts of interest provision means that he can do literally anything and it isn't a conflict of interest.
posted by diogenes at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by diogenes at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017
He's still refusing to release his tax returns, and he's handing the company over to his sons. That's his "protection from appearance of conflict of interest".
posted by MattWPBS at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by MattWPBS at 8:38 AM on January 11, 2017
The Trump Organization will also refrain from entering into any new deals with foreign partners, his legal advisers said, backing off from an earlier claim by Mr. Trump that his company would have “no new deals” of any kind during his presidency. Instead, the Trump enterprise will have to clear any new transactions with an ethics adviser to be chosen by the president-elect in coming days. That ethics adviser will vet them for potential conflicts, using a standard that his advisers said had not yet been agreed upon.
Cool. So all he has to do is not know what cities are negotiating with the Trump Organisation to put up a big hotel with TRUMP in massive letters. Why, this non-blind trust with an ethics advisor picked by the man who is the US President and majority shareholder of the other negotiating party should entirely avoid any possible perception of conflict of interest.
posted by jaduncan at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Cool. So all he has to do is not know what cities are negotiating with the Trump Organisation to put up a big hotel with TRUMP in massive letters. Why, this non-blind trust with an ethics advisor picked by the man who is the US President and majority shareholder of the other negotiating party should entirely avoid any possible perception of conflict of interest.
posted by jaduncan at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Aaaaand, it's over?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017
...and that's it. How many questions was that?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by leotrotsky at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017
This guy is so incredibly compromised. Death of the strong executive, y'all.
I can't believe he ever negotiated anything. Part of negotiation is knowing when to shut up, and he's just blabbing everything all over the place.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't believe he ever negotiated anything. Part of negotiation is knowing when to shut up, and he's just blabbing everything all over the place.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He says the no conflicts of interest provision means that he can do literally anything and it isn't a conflict of interest.
It's not a conflict if you're the president.
posted by maudlin at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's not a conflict if you're the president.
posted by maudlin at 8:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
It sounds like Trump just refused to give up his businesses; he will still be running them by close proxy.
And he just berated a journalist for asking about tax returns. Just. Wow.
posted by byanyothername at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
And he just berated a journalist for asking about tax returns. Just. Wow.
posted by byanyothername at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why the heck does his press conference have a crowd of people cheering?
posted by zachlipton at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sheri Dillon is a disgrace to tax attorneys everywhere.
Signed,
a tax attorney
posted by melissasaurus at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
Signed,
a tax attorney
posted by melissasaurus at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
Wait are the questions over? He has his lawyer on the stage now talking about turning over his business to his sons.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He... just kind of wandered off.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well that was about as weird and awful as I had hoped
posted by theodolite at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sometime over the past week, I ran out of evens and I didn't ... notice. Sad.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
did we win
posted by beerperson at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
This guy is so incredibly compromised. Death of the strong executive, y'all.
Thanks to G-Dubs and Obama for concentrating so much power in the executive, that was really well-considered.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thanks to G-Dubs and Obama for concentrating so much power in the executive, that was really well-considered.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
My money says this was the longest press conference we will ever see from him.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm still reeling at the (almost) President of the United States saying he's a germaphobe so of course the pee in a Russian hotel room allegations can't be true.
posted by Jalliah at 8:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Why the heck does his press conference have a crowd of people cheering?
Roger Stone knows how to stack a press conference audience.
posted by dis_integration at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Roger Stone knows how to stack a press conference audience.
posted by dis_integration at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sheri Dillon is a disgrace to tax attorneys everywhere.
Signed,
a tax attorney
Like, from a practice perspective? Ethically? Both?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Signed,
a tax attorney
Like, from a practice perspective? Ethically? Both?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why the heck does his press conference have a crowd of people cheering?
Staffers are cheering. The journalists are softly sobbing.
posted by maudlin at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Staffers are cheering. The journalists are softly sobbing.
posted by maudlin at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
that's it?
this is a little too much like a plant manager briefing - the guy stands up there - says what he wants to say - answers questions as little as possible and lets everyone else working for him do most of the interaction
that's what it looks like when you run government like a business
bankruptcy in 1, 2, 3 ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
this is a little too much like a plant manager briefing - the guy stands up there - says what he wants to say - answers questions as little as possible and lets everyone else working for him do most of the interaction
that's what it looks like when you run government like a business
bankruptcy in 1, 2, 3 ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by notyou at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by notyou at 8:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Started with an admonishing of unnamed enemies in the media and CIA, and ended with a lawyer pointing at a stack of papers explaining how he can legally loot the country. More or less as I expected.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The conflict of interest thing to me is so totally "Work on contingency? No, money down."
posted by drezdn at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
I'm still caught up on the fact that he outright said he had no idea conflicts of interest could be a problem in the Presidency until three months ago. Like, weren't there hundreds of news stories and questions about that before then?
posted by zachlipton at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why the heck does his press conference have a crowd of people cheering?
It's at Trump Tower. So he brought his fans.
posted by maxsparber at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017
It's at Trump Tower. So he brought his fans.
posted by maxsparber at 8:43 AM on January 11, 2017
Well, it's a good thing Trump doesn't speak to his sons on a regular basis, or anything like that.
Now, if he turned over management of the business to Tiffany...
posted by leotrotsky at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now, if he turned over management of the business to Tiffany...
posted by leotrotsky at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
So that was 3 questions? All about the dossier released yesterday and the conflict of interests possible with Russia, and he pivoted the 3rd response into talking about taxes and his businesses, then vacated the stage and let his lawyer talk about how they're 'handling' it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
That'll be the last time we see him off prompter maybe for his whole administration, he's fucking horrible at it. Once they have total control they'll never expose him to actual questioning without going though the filter of his consiglieres Spicer or Conway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think that was 3 questions asked of the peeotus, and 0 direct answers?
posted by enfa at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by enfa at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017
Thanks to G-Dubs and Obama for concentrating so much power in the executive, that was really well-considered.
Yes, things would be much better if the current Congress was in charge of everything
posted by saturday_morning at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, things would be much better if the current Congress was in charge of everything
posted by saturday_morning at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
New Tingler: Tromp Pounded By Russian T-Rex Who Peed On His Butt Then Blackmailed Him With A Video Of His Butt Getting Peed On
posted by rewil at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by rewil at 8:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm still reeling at the (almost) President of the United States saying he's a germaphobe so of course the pee in a Russian hotel room allegations can't be true.
It was the same thing for the sexual assault claims - not I wouldn't do it, or it categorically didn't happen, but "look at her, who'd want to assault her". Haggling on the price. It's such a strange way to deny something. I don't get it.
Anyway, they're currently dipping their toes into the "I'm legally allowed to be an asshole" defense for conflicts of interest. Same thing.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It was the same thing for the sexual assault claims - not I wouldn't do it, or it categorically didn't happen, but "look at her, who'd want to assault her". Haggling on the price. It's such a strange way to deny something. I don't get it.
Anyway, they're currently dipping their toes into the "I'm legally allowed to be an asshole" defense for conflicts of interest. Same thing.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm still caught up on the fact that he outright said he had no idea conflicts of interest could be a problem in the Presidency until three months ago. Like, weren't there hundreds of news stories and questions about that before then?
I think he was trying to convey that, until 3 months ago he wasn't aware that actually it's impossible for a President to have a conflict of interests (allegedly).
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think he was trying to convey that, until 3 months ago he wasn't aware that actually it's impossible for a President to have a conflict of interests (allegedly).
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
AGAIN with the Rob Ford comparisons...this is taking me back to when some shit would go down, Ford would announce a press conference, everyone would get all riled up ("Maybe he's going to resign!!!"), and then he'd *maybe* make some sort of half-assed fake "apology" before launching into his standard stump speech about the gravy train and then he'd plow through the crowd of reporters with his wife in tow.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is why I was unable to feel the least bit inspired by Obama's speech last night. Because all of those grand words about America, the peaceful transfer of power, about the pendulum swings sometimes but it's ok... NONE of that applies here. The country is being handed over to an organized crime gang intent on ripping us all off.
posted by dnash at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by dnash at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
This asshole is NEVER going to answer ANY questions he didn't pre-approve until/unless he's being questioned on the stand during a legal hearing. And even then he'll just lie his ass off.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think he was trying to convey that, until 3 months ago he wasn't aware that actually it's impossible for a President to have a conflict of interests (allegedly).
Yup, that's what he was saying.
posted by diogenes at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017
Yup, that's what he was saying.
posted by diogenes at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017
Like, from a practice perspective? Ethically? Both?
I have no idea about her body of work prior to this press conference. Any lawyer who can stand up there and say that this plan avoids conflicts of interest is being willfully misleading. For example, he is still considered a related person for tax purposes to any entity owned by his sons. Also, the emoluments clause (which doesn't exempt POTUS) is not the same thing as the conflicts of interest law (which exempts POTUS).
Then again, Morgan Lewis is known for being an employer-side law firm that defends large companies against sexual harassment suits by female employees, so they were already pretty low in my book.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I have no idea about her body of work prior to this press conference. Any lawyer who can stand up there and say that this plan avoids conflicts of interest is being willfully misleading. For example, he is still considered a related person for tax purposes to any entity owned by his sons. Also, the emoluments clause (which doesn't exempt POTUS) is not the same thing as the conflicts of interest law (which exempts POTUS).
Then again, Morgan Lewis is known for being an employer-side law firm that defends large companies against sexual harassment suits by female employees, so they were already pretty low in my book.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
CANADIANS: how did you defeat rob ford, did you need to gather all the chaos emeralds first or
posted by beerperson at 8:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 8:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [54 favorites]
He also claimed that nobody but the press claims about his tax returns, but 74% of likely voters polled said he should release them, including 62% of Republicans.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
So 2 minutes talking about job creation, 15 minutes for his lawyer to talk about the ruling family's financial situation. We are a banana republic.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The only thing that lacked was a 1-800 number to shout out and a chorus or two of "Lock her up!"
I guess I should feel lucky, getting to live through America's Mad King phase.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I guess I should feel lucky, getting to live through America's Mad King phase.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fresh urine from a healthy person is sterile. There's a much richer microbiome in other things he's boasted of touching.
I wonder if he said one thing that wasn't complete nonsense.
No, no I don't.
posted by Devonian at 8:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wonder if he said one thing that wasn't complete nonsense.
No, no I don't.
posted by Devonian at 8:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
SELLING HIS BUSINESS WOULD CREATE A LARGER CONFLICT OF INTEREST THAN HIS SONS RUNNING IT?!?!!
posted by MattWPBS at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by MattWPBS at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
actually it's impossible for a President to have a conflict of interests
An illegal conflict of interest, maybe, but the conflicts are still there of course.
posted by stopgap at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
An illegal conflict of interest, maybe, but the conflicts are still there of course.
posted by stopgap at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I appreciate the live blogging, but seriously, reading this — even in real time — felt like people were live blogging once every 20 minutes of a four-hour press conference. It's totally incomprehensible, like I should be flagging a bunch of random non-sequesters that people keep posting.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump won’t talk to his sons about new domestic deals, Dillon says. Trump “will only know of a deal if he reads it in the paper or sees it on TV.”
chinny reckon
posted by ominous_paws at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
chinny reckon
posted by ominous_paws at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Retweet if you care about @realDonaldTrump's tax returns
posted by zachlipton at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
The only people supporting Rob Ford were ignorant people living in Toronto's suburbs
The people living downtown HATED him.
posted by Yowser at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The people living downtown HATED him.
posted by Yowser at 8:49 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's such a strange way to deny something. I don't get it.
It's a way of attacking the credibility of an accusation when you don't have any contravening evidence. Here it's mostly a distraction, but under some circumstances it can be legit.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:50 AM on January 11, 2017
It's a way of attacking the credibility of an accusation when you don't have any contravening evidence. Here it's mostly a distraction, but under some circumstances it can be legit.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:50 AM on January 11, 2017
Trump won’t talk to his sons about new domestic deals, Dillon says. Trump “will only know of a deal if he reads it in the paper or sees it on TV.”
Ah, that's OK. Any deal that looks like a conflict of interest is very unlikely to be discussed, and he's not a man to spend time watching his own coverage.
posted by jaduncan at 8:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ah, that's OK. Any deal that looks like a conflict of interest is very unlikely to be discussed, and he's not a man to spend time watching his own coverage.
posted by jaduncan at 8:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I keep hoping that Obama goes to a secret room in the WH and cracks an ancient seal to reveal the Framer's emergency instructions in such a situation that would solve the problem
If the framers made it the seal probably says "What to do if somehow a black man is ever elected president" and it will have as step 1: Ask to see his long form birth certificate.
posted by srboisvert at 8:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
If the framers made it the seal probably says "What to do if somehow a black man is ever elected president" and it will have as step 1: Ask to see his long form birth certificate.
posted by srboisvert at 8:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
I see the pee story gives them something to talk about so they don't have to address the more serious allegations too. Even the serious allegations unrelated to the dossier.
Ok, so, I predict everytime they're about to do something really dreadful, there will be a story that comes out about Trump doing something salacious and the dreadful thing will be forgotten.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ok, so, I predict everytime they're about to do something really dreadful, there will be a story that comes out about Trump doing something salacious and the dreadful thing will be forgotten.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The only people supporting Rob Ford were ignorant people living in Toronto's suburbs
The people living downtown HATED him.
oh so exactly like Trump in the US
posted by lydhre at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
CANADIANS: how did you defeat rob ford, did you need to gather all the chaos emeralds first or
He went to rehab during his reelection campaign, then he came back to continue the run.
Then he got cancer had to drop out of the mayor race and died.
So he died is pretty much the answer.
posted by Jalliah at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
He went to rehab during his reelection campaign, then he came back to continue the run.
Then he got cancer had to drop out of the mayor race and died.
So he died is pretty much the answer.
posted by Jalliah at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
I don't know if this picture is real, but I choose to believe, and I choose to stand up right now and salute John Reith.
posted by Devonian at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
So he died is pretty much the answer.
Fingers crossed.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fingers crossed.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
So, the Treasury can accept gifts from foreign governments now? Huh.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
This really clears the palate from Obama's speech last night, doesn't it?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
To me, the most interesting part is that they're backing off the "no new deals" pledge and will only go for no new deals with foreign partners, with other new deals reviewed by some unnamed ethics advisor. The most obvious explanation is that they've got too much debt and the only way to keep the thing from collapsing is to keep shuffling things around into new deals.
posted by zachlipton at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
TRUMP IS BACK
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I'm also very much of a germaphobe, by the way. Believe me."
Chorus of germs on Bannon's face, in unison: "FREEMASONS RUN THE MEDIA"
posted by entropicamericana at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Chorus of germs on Bannon's face, in unison: "FREEMASONS RUN THE MEDIA"
posted by entropicamericana at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
No questions from the lawyer. Great.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:54 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by leotrotsky at 8:54 AM on January 11, 2017
he wants to bring his success to all americans?
um, now many times did his companies go bankrupt?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:54 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
um, now many times did his companies go bankrupt?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:54 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It feels like all the speeches given by people who are not Trump are being fed words that aren't their own. The PR-frontman didn't seem professional at all, using Trump adjectives like "pathetic". The lawyer doesn't seem lawyerly, going on and on rhetorically. It's like this is the quality of professional that Trump is forced to use because "higher quality" professionals won't work for him.
posted by sylvanshine at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by sylvanshine at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017
encore time. the cabinet's really brilliant really great people are so happy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017
@annetdonahue:
Trump has two settings:
1) A student giving a presentation without doing the readings
2) An angry customer who wants to talk to your manager
posted by bibliowench at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [87 favorites]
Trump has two settings:
1) A student giving a presentation without doing the readings
2) An angry customer who wants to talk to your manager
posted by bibliowench at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [87 favorites]
Yup, that's what he was saying.
posted by diogenes
How's that lantern holding up?
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by diogenes
How's that lantern holding up?
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also does anyone believe "stiff contractors and charities he pledges to" Trump is going to donate profits to the Treasury? Doesn't sound like him.
posted by emjaybee at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Please don't wish death on your political enemies, no matter how jokingly or (more or less) how terrible they are.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
he is especially shitty to the female reporters imo
posted by angrycat at 8:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 8:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I feel like I need to read up on the Harding Administration.
posted by drezdn at 8:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 8:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I find it hard to believe that there's a law that says that anything that the president does is inherently not a conflict of interest.
posted by diogenes at 8:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 8:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is why I was unable to feel the least bit inspired by Obama's speech last night.
I was struck by the degree to which the farewell speech seemed to function as both an exhortation and a eulogy, as if it were some kind of message in a bottle. "Still in all, every night we does the tell so that we 'member who we was and where we came from."
posted by octobersurprise at 8:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I was struck by the degree to which the farewell speech seemed to function as both an exhortation and a eulogy, as if it were some kind of message in a bottle. "Still in all, every night we does the tell so that we 'member who we was and where we came from."
posted by octobersurprise at 8:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Please don't wish death on your political enemies, no matter how jokingly or (more or less) how terrible they are.
Why not
I mean, I'm not wishing for homicide. But progress is made when regressives die off, so I'm looking forward to the day we are no longer bothered by Bannon, Trump, Cheney, Kissinger, Stone, etc.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Why not
I mean, I'm not wishing for homicide. But progress is made when regressives die off, so I'm looking forward to the day we are no longer bothered by Bannon, Trump, Cheney, Kissinger, Stone, etc.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
I am not sure I can withstand the dissonance caused by the terror and humor of the current situation.
posted by srboisvert at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Please don't wish death on your political enemies, no matter how jokingly or (more or less) how terrible they are.
I don't wish him dead.
I would, however, like to see him go to jail.
posted by maxsparber at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't wish him dead.
I would, however, like to see him go to jail.
posted by maxsparber at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yup, that's what he was saying.
posted by diogenes
How's that lantern holding up?
I think I'm going to immolate myself with it.
posted by diogenes at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by diogenes
How's that lantern holding up?
I think I'm going to immolate myself with it.
posted by diogenes at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
I find it hard to believe that there's a law that says that anything that the president does is inherently not a conflict of interest.
It would be more accurate to say that the Presidency is statutorily exempted from the laws against it.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It would be more accurate to say that the Presidency is statutorily exempted from the laws against it.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
he's back at the podium so still not dead yet, sadly
plz keep us updated
posted by beerperson at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017
plz keep us updated
posted by beerperson at 8:58 AM on January 11, 2017
he doesn't want to "own it" (obamacare) - dude, you just bought the whole fucking farm - it's yours - YOU OWN IT
posted by pyramid termite at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
"So we're going to do repeal and replace, very complicated stuff" [real]
I don't think we'll hear any details.
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think we'll hear any details.
posted by zachlipton at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"[2017] will be the bad year." -Trump, [real, referring to looming Obamacare disaster that Republicans are eager to trigger]
posted by byanyothername at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by byanyothername at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One deleted; let's skip the Rob Ford fat jokes/meditations and also yeah, maybe let's skip the hopeful death comments.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not watching so just so I'm clear:
He answered 3 questions then left? And now someone else is answering the press's questions?
Or are the people talking now just making statements and not taking questions?
Does this really count as a press conference? How?
posted by Mchelly at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He answered 3 questions then left? And now someone else is answering the press's questions?
Or are the people talking now just making statements and not taking questions?
Does this really count as a press conference? How?
posted by Mchelly at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am not sure I can withstand the dissonance caused by the terror and humor of the current situation.
One portmanteau of "terror" and "humor" is "tumor," and I think that's appropriate.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
One portmanteau of "terror" and "humor" is "tumor," and I think that's appropriate.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
dead, jail, exiled to Russia: I'm not picky.
posted by emjaybee at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Please don't wish death on your political enemies, no matter how jokingly or (more or less) how terrible they are.
You mean the Ford stuff immediately prior? Nobody's wishing death on anybody; they're pointing out that Ford was never actually defeated by anyone except nature.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
You mean the Ford stuff immediately prior? Nobody's wishing death on anybody; they're pointing out that Ford was never actually defeated by anyone except nature.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Q: "What is your specific plan for replacing Obamacare?"
A: "Obamacare is a disaster. Anything bad that happens is the Democrats' fault. We're gonna take care of it. Democrats' fault. Plan. Tremendous."
posted by uncleozzy at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
A: "Obamacare is a disaster. Anything bad that happens is the Democrats' fault. We're gonna take care of it. Democrats' fault. Plan. Tremendous."
posted by uncleozzy at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's opening it up for Dems to say, "No votes for Repeal and Replace, we're happy to sit back and let it hang us if you're so sure."
posted by chris24 at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by chris24 at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017
Mchelly - he's back at the podium and wordsalading again
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017
Who the heck gave Jon Steinberg of Cheddar press credentials?
posted by zachlipton at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2017
It would be more accurate to say that the Presidency is statutorily exempted from the laws against it.
That seems problematic.
posted by diogenes at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017
That seems problematic.
posted by diogenes at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017
He answered 3 questions then left? And now someone else is answering the press's questions?
No, he answered three questions, and then his lawyer talked for 35 days about emollients, and then he started taking questions again.
posted by maxsparber at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, he answered three questions, and then his lawyer talked for 35 days about emollients, and then he started taking questions again.
posted by maxsparber at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump to THR in 2015: I'm not germophobic.
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
from my facebook feed: "The NPR Politics team and reporters across the newsroom will be live-annotating a news conference with President-elect Donald Trump, expected at 8 a.m. on Wednesday.."
i clicked through and all it says is "all work and no play makes jack speer a dull boy" over and over again
posted by entropicamericana at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
i clicked through and all it says is "all work and no play makes jack speer a dull boy" over and over again
posted by entropicamericana at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Guys, I just realized that if this info is true, then it's basically the plot of a good chunk of 90s movies.
"So the scrappy, rag-tag crew get the info, they try to get the press to cover it but can't, so they have to publish on THE INTERNET where it blows up."
posted by corb at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
"So the scrappy, rag-tag crew get the info, they try to get the press to cover it but can't, so they have to publish on THE INTERNET where it blows up."
posted by corb at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I am not sure I can withstand the dissonance caused by the terror and humor of the current situation.
Was just thinking how I'm having to struggle to not have my brain switch over completely (as a coping mechanism) to watching this as a comedy and farce and just laughing and laughing.
posted by Jalliah at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rob Ford would have kept cashing in those suburban votes forever if he hadn't died.
This is very relevant to Trump, as Daniel Dale continues to document.
posted by Yowser at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is very relevant to Trump, as Daniel Dale continues to document.
posted by Yowser at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sad to think there's a big chunk of Americans out there saying to themselves "Oh man, he's KILLING IT."
posted by fungible at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by fungible at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Mchelly, he refused to answer 3 questions (including just berating a female reporter) then seemingly got pulled off the stage so his lawyer could speak, saying that he's only symbolically giving up his business out of the goodness of his heart, then he came back looking like a toddler who just got a scolding and now he's back to raging incoherence and just jaw-dropping belligerence.
posted by byanyothername at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
very complicated stuff
It's very easy folks, believe me....
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's very easy folks, believe me....
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now he's saying the US will just start building a border wall immediately that Mexico will pay for whether they like it or not. And back to referring to himself in third person.
posted by byanyothername at 9:03 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 9:03 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Please don't wish death on your political enemies, no matter how jokingly or (more or less) how terrible they are.
I'll stay over here reading Psalm 109 every day.
posted by asteria at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll stay over here reading Psalm 109 every day.
posted by asteria at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
so, he's going to have this massive border tax - how does that get through congress?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's still thinking Mexico's going to pay for the wall, and he thinks that people shouting "Mexico are going to pay for it!" at rallies means that.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by MattWPBS at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey dude who just asked Trump three distinct questions on different topics when it was your turn? You have way to high an estimation of his memory and attention span.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
he's referred to himself in the third person four times so far. This is a new thing isn't it?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Did he just call it "Supreme Court Judge?" They're Justices.
posted by zachlipton at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is he still doing that sniffing thing from the debates?
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rob Ford would have kept cashing in those suburban votes forever if he hadn't died.
Can... can someone explain this to me? Surely Rob Ford was not the only politician in the entire MTA who was right of center? Why him? And why him even after all the crack smoking?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2017
Can... can someone explain this to me? Surely Rob Ford was not the only politician in the entire MTA who was right of center? Why him? And why him even after all the crack smoking?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2017
Hey dude who just asked Trump three distinct questions on different topics when it was your turn? You have way to high an estimation of his memory and attention span.
I wish he had done them in a different order because I'm so interested in what Trump thinks Nazi Germany was about
posted by theodolite at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wish he had done them in a different order because I'm so interested in what Trump thinks Nazi Germany was about
posted by theodolite at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fresh urine from a healthy person is sterile. There's a much richer microbiome in other things he's boasted of touching.
For fucks sake THIS IS NOT TRUE. THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PISS ON YOU SAY. IT IS NOT TRUE.
The piss is sterile for the nano-second before it hits your other messy internal organs like your bladder or your urethra which most women and some men can tell you are not sterile from painful personal experience. Even healthy people don't have sterile urinary tracts.
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gory-details/urine-not-sterile-and-neither-rest-you
Go ahead and get peed on if you want but at least know what you are doing. We all do plenty of non-sterile things all the time like kissing, eating and shaking hands.
posted by srboisvert at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
For fucks sake THIS IS NOT TRUE. THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PISS ON YOU SAY. IT IS NOT TRUE.
The piss is sterile for the nano-second before it hits your other messy internal organs like your bladder or your urethra which most women and some men can tell you are not sterile from painful personal experience. Even healthy people don't have sterile urinary tracts.
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gory-details/urine-not-sterile-and-neither-rest-you
Go ahead and get peed on if you want but at least know what you are doing. We all do plenty of non-sterile things all the time like kissing, eating and shaking hands.
posted by srboisvert at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
He's referred to himself as DONALD TRUMP more than four times, I think. There was a whole segment there where he got totally stuck on it.
posted by byanyothername at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
So we (Mexico) are gonna be his scapegoat/piñata for 4 years? Lovely.
posted by Omon Ra at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Omon Ra at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
One portmanteau of "terror" and "humor" is "tumor," and I think that's appropriate.
And when the Tumor
Comes to The Town
He blows and blows
Where it started
Only Putin knows
Some of your neighbors
Voted him right in
Knowing it's a lie
And despite all his sin
They'll retweet the tumor again.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
And when the Tumor
Comes to The Town
He blows and blows
Where it started
Only Putin knows
Some of your neighbors
Voted him right in
Knowing it's a lie
And despite all his sin
They'll retweet the tumor again.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump just Godwined America.
posted by Talez at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
"In Nazi Germany, the intelligence agencies allowed false information to reach the public." Um.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile... Having said he never lobbied on sanctions, Tillerson then describes how he called Treasury Sec Lew to discuss US oil sanctions on Russia
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
he's referred to himself in the third person four times so far. This is a new thing isn't it?
Just wait until it becomes the royal "we".
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just wait until it becomes the royal "we".
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
(correction, unconfirmed information -- not proven false)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017
Doubling down on the Nazi Germany comment. Very presidential.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by uncleozzy at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017
"BuzzFeed, which is a failing pile of garbage." [real]
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I wish he had done them in a different order because I'm so interested in what Trump thinks Nazi Germany was about
Hell yeah Power of Attraction baby
posted by theodolite at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hell yeah Power of Attraction baby
posted by theodolite at 9:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter:THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PISS ON YOU SAY.
posted by bibliowench at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
He's chastizing the press like they are stupid kids. "It will be started but Mexico will pay for it. Okay?"
With the okay sounding like it does when someone says like 'you are stupid not to get this. I can't believe I'm having to explain it to you again (rolleyes). Okay? you get it now?'
posted by Jalliah at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now refusing a reporter a question, saying "You are fake news" while his staffers applaud.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017
For fucks sake THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Yeah, I was wondering why there were so many questions about "dental dams" during the press conference today. Now I know.
posted by My Dad at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I was wondering why there were so many questions about "dental dams" during the press conference today. Now I know.
posted by My Dad at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
to a reporter: "No, NOT YOU. Your organization is terrible. DON'T BE RUDE. You are fake news." [REAL]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh, this journalist demanding the right to ask a question just made this conference so much more interesting.
posted by maxsparber at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Holy shit, openly fighting with a Buzzfeed reporter? Christ. Very presidential.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now refusing a reporter "You are fake news" while his staffers applaud.
Worse, it was CNN trying to respond to the lies about them he'd just said.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Worse, it was CNN trying to respond to the lies about them he'd just said.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
This guy is a goddam clown
posted by birdheist at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by birdheist at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
holy shit
Trump says he will not give CNN a question. “You are fake news.”
posted by ominous_paws at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump says he will not give CNN a question. “You are fake news.”
posted by ominous_paws at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Can... can someone explain this to me? Surely Rob Ford was not the only politician in the entire MTA who was right of center? Why him? And why him even after all the crack smoking?
We've found out that conservative preferences when it comes to elected officials in order are:
1) Morons that pisses liberals off
2) True conservatives
3) Nobody
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
We've found out that conservative preferences when it comes to elected officials in order are:
1) Morons that pisses liberals off
2) True conservatives
3) Nobody
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
He was yelling "you are fake news" at Jim Acosta, of CNN and refusing to take a question from him.
posted by zachlipton at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Not you. Your organization is terrible. I'm not going to give you a question. You are fake news" [REAL]
posted by stopgap at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
What organization was that reporter with?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2017
Waiting for him to just say Lügenpresse.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ha, CNN, not Buzzfeed. Lovely. Lovely.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
HOW CAN THIS BE REAL
posted by mothershock at 9:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by mothershock at 9:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
It was Jim Acosta of CNN.
posted by all about eevee at 9:11 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by all about eevee at 9:11 AM on January 11, 2017
My organization is not so bad.
posted by notyou at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's still campaigning.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
we are all going to be soooo embarrassed when this sascha baron cohen movie comes out
posted by beerperson at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
Still saying that the RNC wasn't hacked?
posted by birdheist at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by birdheist at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lindsay Graham is 33% of Trump’s legislative margin in the Senate.
posted by My Dad at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
And it wasn't even CNN that posted the full report. All they reported was that he received a two page summary during a briefing (which he refuses to admit actually happened).
posted by diogenes at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't believe that everything that's come out hasn't so much as made a scratch on him and left him the impression that he can do whatever he wants and be untouchable. And he isn't even wrong.
And Hillary was damned for things she didn't even do.
(I've shared the Buzzfeed story with my folks, but they're under the impression Buzzfeed is fake news from liberals to make Donald look bad.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
And Hillary was damned for things she didn't even do.
(I've shared the Buzzfeed story with my folks, but they're under the impression Buzzfeed is fake news from liberals to make Donald look bad.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
The more he insists the RNC was not hacked, the more you know they were totally PWNED
posted by fungible at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fungible at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Isn't completely refusing access to CNN like this from the outset not a good way to get them to normalize you? Doesn't that give them no choice but to go full ham on him?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Re Russia hacking the DNC: now it's "You know what, could have been others also" [real]
posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2017
Trump is now going into the details of how he distrusts his inner circle so much that he withheld from them details of his meetings with intel agencies. THIS IS FINE
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
If he alienates the entire press corps, starting with CNN, before he's even inaugurated, then what does he have left for the next four years?
Like, you don't use up your best material when you're just getting warmed up.
How does he expect to do this job for 48 months if he starts out with that bullshit movie-script move of "try to kill the toughest guy in the yard on your first day in jail"?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Like, you don't use up your best material when you're just getting warmed up.
How does he expect to do this job for 48 months if he starts out with that bullshit movie-script move of "try to kill the toughest guy in the yard on your first day in jail"?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Now refusing a reporter "You are fake news" while his staffers applaud.
Yeah, there's a really obvious play underway to invert the 'fake news' thing to blend it into discrediting 'mainstream media.' Look at the comments on even the most ridiculous stories on most obvious conservative fake-news sites, if you can stand the brain damage.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, there's a really obvious play underway to invert the 'fake news' thing to blend it into discrediting 'mainstream media.' Look at the comments on even the most ridiculous stories on most obvious conservative fake-news sites, if you can stand the brain damage.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Just imagine how many foreign entities are watching this and busily taking notes on how he's handling it al. He's just laying out all of his buttons and triggers, all of his emotional problems and giving example after example of how he understands (or doesn't understand issues) in one nice succinct event.
He's giving the rest of the world that has to deal with the US a nice little gift.
posted by Jalliah at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump has two settings:
1) A student giving a presentation without doing the readings
2) An angry customer who wants to talk to your manager
3) Slightly drunk and increasingly unstable domestic abuser.
posted by jaduncan at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
1) A student giving a presentation without doing the readings
2) An angry customer who wants to talk to your manager
3) Slightly drunk and increasingly unstable domestic abuser.
posted by jaduncan at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
Isn't completely refusing access to CNN like this from the outset not a good way to get them to normalize you? Doesn't that give them no choice but to go full ham on him?
It's also amazingly ungracious of him, given that CNN gave him billions of free press during the campaign. CNN loves what he does for CNN.
If he blocks CNN, there's a chance they'll go full WaPo on him, which I would love to see.
posted by suelac at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
It's also amazingly ungracious of him, given that CNN gave him billions of free press during the campaign. CNN loves what he does for CNN.
If he blocks CNN, there's a chance they'll go full WaPo on him, which I would love to see.
posted by suelac at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
CNN's Jim Acosta: "Since you're attacking our news organization, can you give us a chance to ask a question?"
Trump: "QUIET!"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump: "QUIET!"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
we are all going to be soooo embarrassed when this sascha baron cohen movie comes out
I'm still hoping Trump comes out on inauguration day and says "what the hell is wrong with you, America?"
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm still hoping Trump comes out on inauguration day and says "what the hell is wrong with you, America?"
posted by Talez at 9:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He left during his own press conference and then...came back to his own press conference?
He had to take a leak.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
He had to take a leak.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
He's been absolutely shitty to the press for months, causing many of them to feel and be physically threatened during his rallies. In order for it to damage him, they'd have to actually hold him accountable for ANYTHING which I've yet to see.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
This guy is a goddam clown
So clowns don't have to have white makeup, goofy wigs, and big red noses?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017
So clowns don't have to have white makeup, goofy wigs, and big red noses?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017
And yet not one other reporter demanded that he answer CNN's question or walked out in protest.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
Isn't completely refusing access to CNN like this from the outset not a good way to get them to normalize you?
Not when the rest of the press tolerates it, and they accepted being penned up at the rallies and abused from the podium and by his supporters. Classic abuser behaviour. The press should collectively walk out right now.
posted by holgate at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Not when the rest of the press tolerates it, and they accepted being penned up at the rallies and abused from the podium and by his supporters. Classic abuser behaviour. The press should collectively walk out right now.
posted by holgate at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
and with one more "you're fired!" he's out [REAL!]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, end with the catchphrase! Wooooooo, President Camacho!
posted by uncleozzy at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is just fucking dangerous and appalling. Why is nobody stopping him????????
posted by mothershock at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by mothershock at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is that it? Did he just storm off?
posted by byanyothername at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by byanyothername at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017
Well that was pretty fucked up.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
He just said "You're fired" to applause from his staffers. If someone had written that into a satiric movie about Trump, I would suggest they cut it for being too obvious.
posted by maxsparber at 9:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 9:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [46 favorites]
Well, that was unsettling.
posted by diogenes at 9:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can... can someone explain this to me? Surely Rob Ford was not the only politician in the entire MTA who was right of center? Why him? And why him even after all the crack smoking?
Because the majority of white non-urban people in North America love a loudmouth bully. There is a real sickness in white culture right now.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Because the majority of white non-urban people in North America love a loudmouth bully. There is a real sickness in white culture right now.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
And we're done.
Also Trump just walked away from the podium.
Good luck everyone, stay optimistic, and keep doing what you can to make your neighborhoods safe and cheerful.
posted by notyou at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also Trump just walked away from the podium.
Good luck everyone, stay optimistic, and keep doing what you can to make your neighborhoods safe and cheerful.
posted by notyou at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
So clowns don't have to have white makeup, goofy wigs, and big red noses?
Well, ask yourself: can you even see to tell whether he's wearing those giant clown shoes, when he stands behind a podium?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, ask yourself: can you even see to tell whether he's wearing those giant clown shoes, when he stands behind a podium?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fuck every other news org in there for not ceding their question to CNN, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [49 favorites]
and with one more "you're fired!" he's out [REAL!]
holy shit.
The press needs to stop letting him get away with shit. Stop covering his press conferences, stop publishing his tweets, stop giving him the validation he so desperately wants. Not until he actually answers questions.
But they won't. Because he's good for ratings.
posted by suelac at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
holy shit.
The press needs to stop letting him get away with shit. Stop covering his press conferences, stop publishing his tweets, stop giving him the validation he so desperately wants. Not until he actually answers questions.
But they won't. Because he's good for ratings.
posted by suelac at 9:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
I feel like I need to read up on the Harding Administration.
I'm sticking with the "Calvinball Coolidge"
posted by thelonius at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm sticking with the "Calvinball Coolidge"
posted by thelonius at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
And that was Breitbart's Matt Boyle who asked how Trump would "reform" the press for reporting fake news.
posted by zachlipton at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'll stay over here reading Psalm 109 every day.
I've thought a lot about Matthew 4 since the election, which describes how Jesus was tested in the wilderness: "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 'All this I will give you,' he said, 'if you will bow down and worship me.'"
It's such a metaphor for the situation that American evangelicals were presented with. "I embody none of your stated values, but I will give you the Supreme Court. I will give you everything you want. But you must embrace me and make me your leader."
Jesus, of course, actually passed the test.
posted by compartment at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
I've thought a lot about Matthew 4 since the election, which describes how Jesus was tested in the wilderness: "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 'All this I will give you,' he said, 'if you will bow down and worship me.'"
It's such a metaphor for the situation that American evangelicals were presented with. "I embody none of your stated values, but I will give you the Supreme Court. I will give you everything you want. But you must embrace me and make me your leader."
Jesus, of course, actually passed the test.
posted by compartment at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
I keep telling myself I'm going to step away from the computer for at least 30 minutes. My record so far today is like 6 minutes.
posted by diogenes at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trump refuses to give @Acosta a question because CNN is "fake news" but then calls on CNN's @JDiamond1. Classic.
It's like he has no idea what he's doing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
It's like he has no idea what he's doing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
Good luck everyone, stay optimistic, and keep doing what you can to make your neighborhoods safe and cheerful.
And call your congresspeople, donate to/volunteer for organizations that will fight this bully, and vote in the midterms!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
And call your congresspeople, donate to/volunteer for organizations that will fight this bully, and vote in the midterms!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Look at the bright side, we didn't hear a promotional message from any of Trump's children.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, what, how many questions? And 0 answers? Or one answer from his lawyer that amounted to, "Donald Trump doesn't have to distance himself from his business interests, but he's going to - just symbolically, you understand - because his heart grew two sizes over Christmas." [basically real]
Because the majority of whitenon-urban people in North America love a loudmouth bully. There is a real sickness in white culture right now.
This is not a poor/middleclass or urban/rural thing. It is a white people thing. "Progressive" urban areas in the US have as many problems with ingrained racism as suburban and rural regions.
posted by byanyothername at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Because the majority of white
This is not a poor/middleclass or urban/rural thing. It is a white people thing. "Progressive" urban areas in the US have as many problems with ingrained racism as suburban and rural regions.
posted by byanyothername at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
If buzzFeed hasn'tt replaced their mast head with "A Flaming Pile of Garbage" within the hour I'll be very disappointed.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:23 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's like he has no idea what he's doing.
I honestly don't think he does. Bluster has gotten him this far in life and I don't think he can conceive that it won't work in the most heavily scrutinized job in America. Or maybe it will. As others have said, I'm all out of evens.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I honestly don't think he does. Bluster has gotten him this far in life and I don't think he can conceive that it won't work in the most heavily scrutinized job in America. Or maybe it will. As others have said, I'm all out of evens.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
uncleozzy: "Christ. Very presidential."
That's the new "Christ, what an asshole" for DJT.
posted by chavenet at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's the new "Christ, what an asshole" for DJT.
posted by chavenet at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
He got in a dig at the BBC too — "BBC news, that's another beauty."
posted by lucidium at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lucidium at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
These people have their own logic.
Like a moderate-leaning-conservative blogger I know who deplores fake news and criticizes the media for corruption but defends Breitbart writers and cites right-wing memes and propaganda without the faintest whiff of criticism. Because Breitbart isn't biased or fake news because they aren't mainstream.
Obviously.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Like a moderate-leaning-conservative blogger I know who deplores fake news and criticizes the media for corruption but defends Breitbart writers and cites right-wing memes and propaganda without the faintest whiff of criticism. Because Breitbart isn't biased or fake news because they aren't mainstream.
Obviously.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Remember early in Obama's first term when he threatened to pull Fox News' press credentials and the entire press pool threatened to boycott his press conferences? Yeah...
posted by dirigibleman at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 9:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Oh he definitely has no idea what he's doing.
And he's got a little war inside at all times between "Ohshit ohshit ohshit how do I get out of this, I never wanted any of this!!!" and "YES! All shall love me and despair!!!!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
And he's got a little war inside at all times between "Ohshit ohshit ohshit how do I get out of this, I never wanted any of this!!!" and "YES! All shall love me and despair!!!!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
So...what is the press corps supposed to do, just not report on him? If they cede that, he gets exactly what he wants, which is to do everything he wants. To me, this just further illustrates the fact that we're in untested waters—what we once thought was normal in terms of dignity, propriety, manners, and conventions has just washed away and everyone is going to have to figure out how to work within this new, insane world.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 9:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
CNN need to report the press conference as something like
Donald Trump today stated that he would not release his tax returns, would not deny links to Russia and refuses to uphold the first amendment.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Donald Trump today stated that he would not release his tax returns, would not deny links to Russia and refuses to uphold the first amendment.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
I don't know whether to laugh or have a panic attack.
posted by gatorae at 9:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 9:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Deep State Goes to War with President-Elect, Using Unverified Claims, as Democrats Cheer
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:28 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:28 AM on January 11, 2017
Ah, the Intercept, right on cue
posted by saturday_morning at 9:30 AM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 9:30 AM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Remember how the Intercept went after Wikileaks for their hit job on the Dems and Hillary?
Yeah, me neither.
Fuck them. Greenwald is POS and so are the rest of them. I said it.
posted by asteria at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
Yeah, me neither.
Fuck them. Greenwald is POS and so are the rest of them. I said it.
posted by asteria at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
I have at least two main takeaways.
The first is on hacking. He makes a touch of news by acknowledging that it was Russia, then pulls it back with more wishy-washy statements. And he's constantly deflecting it by minimizing it, refocusing attention on the content of the emails instead of the hacks, saying other countries (China!) do it too. And he wouldn't answer the question about contacts with Russia during the campaign. It's as if he was told he can't completely deny Russian involvement, but felt compelled to portray it as no big deal so as to emphasize why he won't do anything about it.
The second is his business. There's no real plan there, and it's very telling that he insists that his sons are going to be able to keep doing deals when they previously said they would suspend new deals. I think they need to keep making deals to keep the whole operation afloat. And who the hell brings up "yeah these folks in Dubai just offered me a multi-billion dollar deal, but I totally turned them down" as an example of how he doesn't have conflicts of interest?
posted by zachlipton at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
The first is on hacking. He makes a touch of news by acknowledging that it was Russia, then pulls it back with more wishy-washy statements. And he's constantly deflecting it by minimizing it, refocusing attention on the content of the emails instead of the hacks, saying other countries (China!) do it too. And he wouldn't answer the question about contacts with Russia during the campaign. It's as if he was told he can't completely deny Russian involvement, but felt compelled to portray it as no big deal so as to emphasize why he won't do anything about it.
The second is his business. There's no real plan there, and it's very telling that he insists that his sons are going to be able to keep doing deals when they previously said they would suspend new deals. I think they need to keep making deals to keep the whole operation afloat. And who the hell brings up "yeah these folks in Dubai just offered me a multi-billion dollar deal, but I totally turned them down" as an example of how he doesn't have conflicts of interest?
posted by zachlipton at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ancient texts like Suetonius's The Lives of the 12 Caesars are the primary sources of information for the early roman emperors. The biographies are full of lurid, grotesque, fantastic stories about insane shit that the more unstable rulers supposedly did and were able to get away with (for a while). Caligula marrying his sister and wanting to name his horse Consul and throwing arena spectators to the lions. Tiberius training a troupe of child sex mermaids for his swimming pool. Domitian sitting alone in a musty room and pulling the wings off flies. Nero lighting Christians as torches for his parties and leveling the center of the city for his pleasure palace. Etc. Etc.
Studying ancient history, you hear a lot about how many of these histories and biographies are propaganda pieces, implausible smears framed and written by enemies after the fact. I used to agree pretty strongly with this interpretation.
I now realize that there's no reason to disbelieve any of these stories. We're about to live one.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [65 favorites]
Studying ancient history, you hear a lot about how many of these histories and biographies are propaganda pieces, implausible smears framed and written by enemies after the fact. I used to agree pretty strongly with this interpretation.
I now realize that there's no reason to disbelieve any of these stories. We're about to live one.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [65 favorites]
I want to know what happens the first time he says something like, "as for the China, if they don't play along, maybe we bomb them? who knows? maybe we bomb them". This type of speech is an inch away from his lips all the time, as he doesn't realize he's not on a TV show any more.
Somehow, financial markets have managed throughout these months to not be bothered by the geopolitical risk lurking in all this.
When Trump made negative comments about drug prices, all the financial leeches hit sell/short on healthcare stocks and ETFs. That allowed them to make, essentially risk-free, more than 1.3% on their money in three minutes. Thanks Trump.
posted by sylvanshine at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Somehow, financial markets have managed throughout these months to not be bothered by the geopolitical risk lurking in all this.
When Trump made negative comments about drug prices, all the financial leeches hit sell/short on healthcare stocks and ETFs. That allowed them to make, essentially risk-free, more than 1.3% on their money in three minutes. Thanks Trump.
posted by sylvanshine at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
So...what is the press corps supposed to do, just not report on him?
I think they have to report on him, yes. But what he wants is validation, and they can refuse him that. They have to call out his lies.
Hell, even the BBC fails that test -- they just put in the headline "Trump Hands Over Business Empire to Sons", which is not what happened. It's just what he said he would do. They have to stop reporting his statements as fact, and report his actions.
posted by suelac at 9:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
I think they have to report on him, yes. But what he wants is validation, and they can refuse him that. They have to call out his lies.
Hell, even the BBC fails that test -- they just put in the headline "Trump Hands Over Business Empire to Sons", which is not what happened. It's just what he said he would do. They have to stop reporting his statements as fact, and report his actions.
posted by suelac at 9:34 AM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
The Deep State Goes to War with President-Elect, Using Unverified Claims, as Democrats Cheer
Yes, every word of that headline is true (the first sentence of the Buzzfeed piece included the word "unverified," after all). It's still better than the alternative. Donald Trump is an extinction-level threat, we damn sure should be using every possible avenue to undermine him. I'll cheer that every day of the week.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes, every word of that headline is true (the first sentence of the Buzzfeed piece included the word "unverified," after all). It's still better than the alternative. Donald Trump is an extinction-level threat, we damn sure should be using every possible avenue to undermine him. I'll cheer that every day of the week.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:35 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
He got in a dig at the BBC too — "BBC news, that's another beauty."
The BBC News caption writer is having a good time.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The BBC News caption writer is having a good time.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Blergh, all the usual Twitter trolls have started calling people "Fake News"
It's like they did a find and replace on Cuck.
It still doesn't make sense.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's like they did a find and replace on Cuck.
It still doesn't make sense.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Deep State Goes to War with President-Elect, Using Unverified Claims, as Democrats Cheer
The depressing thing (if you're hoping for some sort of deux ex machina that remove Trump from office) is that the Deep State has decided to go with intelligence on Trump they have, not the intelligence on Trump they might want or wish to have at a later time.
posted by My Dad at 9:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The depressing thing (if you're hoping for some sort of deux ex machina that remove Trump from office) is that the Deep State has decided to go with intelligence on Trump they have, not the intelligence on Trump they might want or wish to have at a later time.
posted by My Dad at 9:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The BBC News caption writer is having a good time.
So are chyrons called Astons in the UK?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So are chyrons called Astons in the UK?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess where I disagree with the Intercept is this: we, ordinary people, have no one to represent us at all (given how spineless the Democrats and the media have been). We are not "represented" by the CIA, but our best hope is that the CIA can muddy the waters and mess up Trump's presidency. That's all there is at this point. There's no more. The left does not have the structures for general strikes, riots in the streets, insurrection, civil war; the Democrats have neither the numbers nor the spine. It's possible that after a year or two of organizing and the real of the Trump administration, the left may develop such structures - people are certainly working on building them. But they don't exist except on any meaningful scale right now.
So I guess I'm confused by two things: why the Intercept is talking as though ordinary people are represented by/responsible for the Democratic Party and what they feel the alternative to the CIA reveal is, other than "Trump and the Republicans happily work together gut social security, enlarge the prison industrial complex and take us to war with Iran".
And actually, no, I'm confused by a third thing: we can be pretty confident that Trump's business deals are very shady. How is anyone without massive institutional power supposed to get the kind of documentation that would prove this? The Republicans won't, the Democrats can't/won't, and that kind of leaves...the CIA?
I just still feel like a lot of people in certain parts of the left really want the Russians to be the good guys (because they're not the USA and out of a faint left-institutional nostalgia for the USSR) and Trump to be demonstrably Better Than Hillary (because otherwise they've totally backed the wrong horse, which, of course, they have).
posted by Frowner at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
So I guess I'm confused by two things: why the Intercept is talking as though ordinary people are represented by/responsible for the Democratic Party and what they feel the alternative to the CIA reveal is, other than "Trump and the Republicans happily work together gut social security, enlarge the prison industrial complex and take us to war with Iran".
And actually, no, I'm confused by a third thing: we can be pretty confident that Trump's business deals are very shady. How is anyone without massive institutional power supposed to get the kind of documentation that would prove this? The Republicans won't, the Democrats can't/won't, and that kind of leaves...the CIA?
I just still feel like a lot of people in certain parts of the left really want the Russians to be the good guys (because they're not the USA and out of a faint left-institutional nostalgia for the USSR) and Trump to be demonstrably Better Than Hillary (because otherwise they've totally backed the wrong horse, which, of course, they have).
posted by Frowner at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
It's all muddying the waters to try and make it so people can't tell Fake News from real, I reckon.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is horrible, and yet somehow exhilarating, like when I had gastro and was projectile vomiting and thought "wow, it's coming out in a parabola."
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
There's no way the kids can maintain the Jenga tower that is the Trump Organization. Trump's single talent is keeping that thing standing, and there's no one else who knows which risky piece is stacked on another. He'll be impeached as a result of one of his kids' screw ups.
posted by klarck at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by klarck at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because the majority of white non-urban people in North America love a loudmouth bully. There is a real sickness in white culture right now.
Toronto is diverse enough that it decidedly isn't/wasn't a white-people thing.
Not that it makes sense either way.
posted by the road and the damned at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Toronto is diverse enough that it decidedly isn't/wasn't a white-people thing.
Not that it makes sense either way.
posted by the road and the damned at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
So are chyrons called Astons in the UK?
Wiki(pedia, not leaks) says that's a term used in the UK after a particular system used for them
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:41 AM on January 11, 2017
Wiki(pedia, not leaks) says that's a term used in the UK after a particular system used for them
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:41 AM on January 11, 2017
Yes, every word of that headline is true
It's true if you define "Democrats" as "two online news orgs, an opinion blog, and a freelancer" and not, say, elected Democrats and party officials.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's true if you define "Democrats" as "two online news orgs, an opinion blog, and a freelancer" and not, say, elected Democrats and party officials.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The BBC News caption writer is having a good time.
So are chyrons called Astons in the UK? The Google is silent on this matter of great importance.
Apparently, but I've not heard them called that before.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017
So are chyrons called Astons in the UK? The Google is silent on this matter of great importance.
Apparently, but I've not heard them called that before.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017
@ChambersGuides
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP just scooped up the Russia Law Firm of the Year award #ChamEuroAwards @MorganLewisLaw [real; April 2016]
This is the law firm repping him on his conflicts of interest.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP just scooped up the Russia Law Firm of the Year award #ChamEuroAwards @MorganLewisLaw [real; April 2016]
This is the law firm repping him on his conflicts of interest.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
Yes! They are called Astons.
Wikipedia: Lower thirds are also often known as "CG" or captions, and sometimes chyrons in North America, due to the popularity of Chyron Corporation's Chiron I character generator, an early digital solution developed in the 1970s for rendering lower thirds.[2] Other common terms include superbars (or simply supers) (US), name straps and astons (after Aston Broadcast Systems)
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wikipedia: Lower thirds are also often known as "CG" or captions, and sometimes chyrons in North America, due to the popularity of Chyron Corporation's Chiron I character generator, an early digital solution developed in the 1970s for rendering lower thirds.[2] Other common terms include superbars (or simply supers) (US), name straps and astons (after Aston Broadcast Systems)
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's fucking predictable. The coinage "fake news", created to discuss the phenomenon if completely fictional news stories spreading on social media, meant something. Most people felt that that thing was bad. So the Trumnp supporters hurridly repurposed the term to describe the actual news media.
posted by thelonius at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP just scooped up the Russia Law Firm of the Year award #ChamEuroAwards @MorganLewisLaw
Too implausible. Consider revisions.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Too implausible. Consider revisions.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:43 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
This will all be worth it if Trump manages to reduce unemployment and raise wages by January 20th.
posted by My Dad at 9:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 9:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
re The Intercept's hot takes, what I said before the election still applies:
If the plane I am sitting on is crashing, and the person next to me wants to have a deep conversation about jet travel, carbon footprints and anthropogenic climate change, I'm going to tell them to shut the fuck up while we figure out how to land the plane.
When we're safely back on terra firma, we can talk. I'm all ears, and it's a topic I am deeply concerned about and interested in. But not now, motherfuckers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
If the plane I am sitting on is crashing, and the person next to me wants to have a deep conversation about jet travel, carbon footprints and anthropogenic climate change, I'm going to tell them to shut the fuck up while we figure out how to land the plane.
When we're safely back on terra firma, we can talk. I'm all ears, and it's a topic I am deeply concerned about and interested in. But not now, motherfuckers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
I feel like my brain and my body are...not communicating with each other. My brain is kind of like, "This is wacky and hilarious and INSANE and sort of terrifying but all we can do it laaaaaugh!" and my body is like, [stomach cramps] [constant head and neck aches] [low level insomnia] because I am TERRIFIED and ANXIOUS but can't really do anything about it. My mind is trying to protect me, but my body isn't getting the message.
posted by Aquifer at 9:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Aquifer at 9:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Frowner: I just still feel like a lot of people in certain parts of the left really want the Russians to be the good guys (because they're not the USA and out of a faint left-institutional nostalgia for the USSR) and Trump to be demonstrably Better Than Hillary (because otherwise they've totally backed the wrong horse, which, of course, they have).
Yeah, that's a weird thing that I've seen bubbling up. In all seriousness, one corrective when confronted with it is to suggest people read the latest Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International reports on Russia.
All I know is that if my Finnish grandfather (a veteran of the Winter War) was still alive to see what Putin's been up to lately, he'd be digging out his skis and his rifle and heading out into the woods. I'm only half joking.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, that's a weird thing that I've seen bubbling up. In all seriousness, one corrective when confronted with it is to suggest people read the latest Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International reports on Russia.
All I know is that if my Finnish grandfather (a veteran of the Winter War) was still alive to see what Putin's been up to lately, he'd be digging out his skis and his rifle and heading out into the woods. I'm only half joking.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Two thoughts:
First, the idea that big piles of paper means fuckall is an insult to my intelligence. That had to be Trump's idea.
Second, why won't he admit that he received a summary of the report during the intelligence briefing? Would that lend it too much credence?
posted by diogenes at 9:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
First, the idea that big piles of paper means fuckall is an insult to my intelligence. That had to be Trump's idea.
Second, why won't he admit that he received a summary of the report during the intelligence briefing? Would that lend it too much credence?
posted by diogenes at 9:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Greenwald is interested in undermining US policy abroad. Looking at it from that lens, Trump is a godsend; an incompetent, weak, distractable leader who has no idea how government works. From our view here, it looks like Greenwald is happily undermining the left and the Democratic party, because it serves his purposes. Never mind the horrifying impact Trump is bound to have domestically, on the poor, PoC, women, basically everyone.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 9:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
Is any of this planned or is it entirely just Trump et al. responding to stimuli? If the former then I'd bet that Pizzagate was intended to condition us to seeing insane fake news, so that when insane but real stuff, like Trump being a Putin's puppet, comes out, they can just handwave it as more fake news. It seems like the latter but maybe its a carefully cultivated appearance of stupidity.
posted by gatorae at 9:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 9:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is the law firm repping him on his conflicts of interest.
It's like this huge big arrow pointing 'here, here, look here' just gets bigger and more flashy. And peeps be all "look away, I don't want to look, no no you can't make me big arrow trying to flash in my face'
posted by Jalliah at 9:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's like this huge big arrow pointing 'here, here, look here' just gets bigger and more flashy. And peeps be all "look away, I don't want to look, no no you can't make me big arrow trying to flash in my face'
posted by Jalliah at 9:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
"If I'm elected President, we're going to be Godwinning so much that we get tired of Godwinning."
posted by uosuaq at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Second, why won't he admit that he received a summary of the report during the intelligence briefing? Would that lend it too much credence?
Apparently he might not have?
posted by Roommate at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Apparently he might not have?
posted by Roommate at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
why won't he admit that he received a summary of the report during the intelligence briefing? Would that lend it too much credence?
Because he thrives on stoking doubt and saying "Did it come from the intelligence agencies? I don't know, maybe it did, maybe it didn't" was the best way to muddy the waters. Then later if he's contradicted he can just question the credibility of whoever's contradicting him.
posted by contraption at 9:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because he thrives on stoking doubt and saying "Did it come from the intelligence agencies? I don't know, maybe it did, maybe it didn't" was the best way to muddy the waters. Then later if he's contradicted he can just question the credibility of whoever's contradicting him.
posted by contraption at 9:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like my brain and my body are...not communicating with each other. My brain is kind of like, "This is wacky and hilarious and INSANE and sort of terrifying but all we can do it laaaaaugh!" and my body is like, [stomach cramps] [constant head and neck aches] [low level insomnia] because I am TERRIFIED and ANXIOUS but can't really do anything about it. My mind is trying to protect me, but my body isn't getting the message.
Yes I go to bed laughing about pee puns but then I wake up an hour before my alarm thinking "oh my god we're going to die."
posted by emjaybee at 9:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yes I go to bed laughing about pee puns but then I wake up an hour before my alarm thinking "oh my god we're going to die."
posted by emjaybee at 9:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
CNN's Jim Acosta reporting that Spicer threatened to have him removed if he tried to ask another question.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
So this is just complete speculation, but why not? What if the memos themselves were part of a Russian op intended to further spread chaos and FUD and undermine whoever became President in an effort to ensure weak US foreign policy and provide space to Russia to do as it wishes?
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Apparently he might not have?
Ugh, if that's true, CNN did screw up. And Buzzfeed's decision was based on CNN's reporting. That's... messy.
There's a big difference between briefing him on the report and "the two-page summary about the unsubstantiated material made available to the briefers was to provide context, should they need it, to draw the distinction for Trump between analyzed intelligence and unvetted 'disinformation.'"
That's two very different descriptions of events from "senior officials." Is this more warring within the intelligence community?
I give up on trying to understand anything today.
posted by diogenes at 9:54 AM on January 11, 2017
Ugh, if that's true, CNN did screw up. And Buzzfeed's decision was based on CNN's reporting. That's... messy.
There's a big difference between briefing him on the report and "the two-page summary about the unsubstantiated material made available to the briefers was to provide context, should they need it, to draw the distinction for Trump between analyzed intelligence and unvetted 'disinformation.'"
That's two very different descriptions of events from "senior officials." Is this more warring within the intelligence community?
I give up on trying to understand anything today.
posted by diogenes at 9:54 AM on January 11, 2017
Messy is not a reason to throw out the First Amendment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
One thing the press should learn today: Don't ask Trump two-part questions. He only answers the last part, and can't remember the first part.
posted by fungible at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by fungible at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Here's the thing: we now have to lay a lot of the blame for Trump on the so-called "news" media.
They reported every single leak from Comey as if HRC's email server was worse than Teapot Dome and Watergate combined. They let every single unsubstantiated rumor about Clinton fly with their backing and amplification.
And all that time they were sitting on the Trump dossier. Sitting on it.
Their "journalistic standards" allowed them to publish every single anti-Clinton smear the far right could conjure up out of their fever dreams, but FSB kompromat on Trump was a bridge too far?
I think the time has come that we need to realize that just as the FBI has abandoned any pretense of being non-political and gone fully for Trump, so too have the big news companies. I don't know **WHY** the NYT, to pick an example, would sell out America to help Trump, but they did.
For the NYT no Clinton rumor, no matter how patently false, was too unsubstantiated to publish, but the Trump dossier was to be kept secret. The NYT and all the others who sat on this are objectively pro-Trump organizations and must be recognized as such by all Democrats or they'll screw us again.
The NYT, CNN, et al may not think of themselves as pro-Trump, in fact I'm sure they'd vigorously deny it. But even if they're fooling themselves we can't let them fool us any longer. Whether they were actually bought and run by Trump fanatics out or whether they've just internalized a double standard that hurts Democrats is an interesting discussion and I'd like to know the answer.
But regardless of which it is, regardless of intent on the part of management, regardless of horror at the suggestion they support Trump, the simple fact is that they behave as if they support Trump and oppose Democrats. Therefore, until they can fix themselves, we must operate with the understanding that they're all Trump Media.
We've known for a long time now that the newly politicized FBI was a key factor in Clinton's loss. Now we know that a pro-Trump media was also a contributing factor.
So fuck 'em. They've proven now that their presence is literally worse than their absence. What's the point in keeping the NYT, or CNN, or whatever around if all they do is hurt us? I've unsubscribed from the NYT, no more of my money to support a Trump company.
They're at least as much to blame as Comey, maybe even more. Comey's leaks wouldn't have meant anything if the "respectable" news media that was too in the bag for Trump to report on his dirty laundry hadn't lunged for a chance to hurt Clinton.
I'll count every single traditional media company that goes bankrupt this year a win. Fuck the lot of them.
posted by sotonohito at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [61 favorites]
They reported every single leak from Comey as if HRC's email server was worse than Teapot Dome and Watergate combined. They let every single unsubstantiated rumor about Clinton fly with their backing and amplification.
And all that time they were sitting on the Trump dossier. Sitting on it.
Their "journalistic standards" allowed them to publish every single anti-Clinton smear the far right could conjure up out of their fever dreams, but FSB kompromat on Trump was a bridge too far?
I think the time has come that we need to realize that just as the FBI has abandoned any pretense of being non-political and gone fully for Trump, so too have the big news companies. I don't know **WHY** the NYT, to pick an example, would sell out America to help Trump, but they did.
For the NYT no Clinton rumor, no matter how patently false, was too unsubstantiated to publish, but the Trump dossier was to be kept secret. The NYT and all the others who sat on this are objectively pro-Trump organizations and must be recognized as such by all Democrats or they'll screw us again.
The NYT, CNN, et al may not think of themselves as pro-Trump, in fact I'm sure they'd vigorously deny it. But even if they're fooling themselves we can't let them fool us any longer. Whether they were actually bought and run by Trump fanatics out or whether they've just internalized a double standard that hurts Democrats is an interesting discussion and I'd like to know the answer.
But regardless of which it is, regardless of intent on the part of management, regardless of horror at the suggestion they support Trump, the simple fact is that they behave as if they support Trump and oppose Democrats. Therefore, until they can fix themselves, we must operate with the understanding that they're all Trump Media.
We've known for a long time now that the newly politicized FBI was a key factor in Clinton's loss. Now we know that a pro-Trump media was also a contributing factor.
So fuck 'em. They've proven now that their presence is literally worse than their absence. What's the point in keeping the NYT, or CNN, or whatever around if all they do is hurt us? I've unsubscribed from the NYT, no more of my money to support a Trump company.
They're at least as much to blame as Comey, maybe even more. Comey's leaks wouldn't have meant anything if the "respectable" news media that was too in the bag for Trump to report on his dirty laundry hadn't lunged for a chance to hurt Clinton.
I'll count every single traditional media company that goes bankrupt this year a win. Fuck the lot of them.
posted by sotonohito at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [61 favorites]
Yeah, that's a weird thing that I've seen bubbling up. In all seriousness, one corrective when confronted with it is to suggest people read the latest Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International reports on Russia.
All I know is that if my Finnish grandfather (a veteran of the Winter War) was still alive to see what Putin's been up to lately, he'd be digging out his skis and his rifle and heading out into the woods. I'm only half joking.
The left Russia is cool thing has been around forever. It's always been part of the bubble. 15 years ago in University part of the reason I ended up bailing on a couple of leftie activist groups was because I couldn't stand listening to how much better Russia was then the US and just basic Russian apologetics. From the debates I had I gathered it's because of the idea that Communism and socialism is inherently good, matter of principle. And no amount of arguing about reality verses theory mattered. It was so binary. People seemed to need the binary and wouldn't let it go and wouldn't consider the notion that maybe that it could be a bad guy, bad guy thing. You had to say Russia was good because if you didn't that meant you thought that the US was good. There was very little well both Russia and the US suck on issue X.
posted by Jalliah at 9:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
All I know is that if my Finnish grandfather (a veteran of the Winter War) was still alive to see what Putin's been up to lately, he'd be digging out his skis and his rifle and heading out into the woods. I'm only half joking.
The left Russia is cool thing has been around forever. It's always been part of the bubble. 15 years ago in University part of the reason I ended up bailing on a couple of leftie activist groups was because I couldn't stand listening to how much better Russia was then the US and just basic Russian apologetics. From the debates I had I gathered it's because of the idea that Communism and socialism is inherently good, matter of principle. And no amount of arguing about reality verses theory mattered. It was so binary. People seemed to need the binary and wouldn't let it go and wouldn't consider the notion that maybe that it could be a bad guy, bad guy thing. You had to say Russia was good because if you didn't that meant you thought that the US was good. There was very little well both Russia and the US suck on issue X.
posted by Jalliah at 9:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
CNN's Jim Acosta reporting that Spicer threatened to have him removed if he tried to ask another question.
He should have tried to ask another question.
posted by schmod at 9:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [49 favorites]
He should have tried to ask another question.
posted by schmod at 9:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [49 favorites]
Third World problems.
posted by My Dad at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Media in 2017: Trump calls experienced journos from CNN & Buzzfeed "fake news" while thousands of Facebook users react with emoticons
posted by My Dad at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He should have tried to ask another question.
But with, like, a fake mustache
posted by beerperson at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
But with, like, a fake mustache
posted by beerperson at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
Can... can someone explain this to me? Surely Rob Ford was not the only politician in the entire MTA who was right of center? Why him? And why him even after all the crack smoking?
Because the majority of white non-urban people in North America love a loudmouth bully. There is a real sickness in white culture right now.
Uh, no. Ford was wildly popular among the suburban non-white demographic. You can't get elected in Toronto appealing to whites.
As to the original question, he was a very successful populist who became a darling of the Toronto Sun tabloid mainly for submitting zero expense claims during his tenure as a city councillor, even buying his own office supplies. That sort of thing goes a long way with uninformed voters.
posted by rocket88 at 10:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because the majority of white non-urban people in North America love a loudmouth bully. There is a real sickness in white culture right now.
Uh, no. Ford was wildly popular among the suburban non-white demographic. You can't get elected in Toronto appealing to whites.
As to the original question, he was a very successful populist who became a darling of the Toronto Sun tabloid mainly for submitting zero expense claims during his tenure as a city councillor, even buying his own office supplies. That sort of thing goes a long way with uninformed voters.
posted by rocket88 at 10:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't know **WHY** the NYT, to pick an example, would sell out America to help Trump, but they did.
Because the Sulzbergers hate Clinton.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because the Sulzbergers hate Clinton.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't be the only one who has felt like this every day since the election. Thanks to all for saving (some of) my sanity with your comic liveblogging of this blackmirrored version of a press conference.
posted by informavore at 10:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by informavore at 10:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
15 years ago in University part of the reason I ended up bailing on a couple of leftie activist groups was because I couldn't stand listening to how much better Russia was then the US and just basic Russian apologetics. From the debates I had I gathered it's because of the idea that Communism and socialism is inherently good, matter of principle. And no amount of arguing about reality verses theory mattered. It was so binary.
It's baffling and infuriating to see this attitude survive Russia's (let's be fair, US-enabled and -assisted) descent into protofascist dictatorship.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's baffling and infuriating to see this attitude survive Russia's (let's be fair, US-enabled and -assisted) descent into protofascist dictatorship.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
So no one was allowed to take the papers that Trump had stacked next to him?
posted by drezdn at 10:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 10:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
MattWPBS: "SELLING HIS BUSINESS WOULD CREATE A LARGER CONFLICT OF INTEREST THAN HIS SONS RUNNING IT?!?!!"
Or it would reveal that the company's not actually worth anything.
posted by octothorpe at 10:03 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Or it would reveal that the company's not actually worth anything.
posted by octothorpe at 10:03 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's baffling and infuriating to see this attitude survive Russia's (let's be fair, US-enabled and -assisted) descent into protofascist dictatorship.
It's the geopolitical equivalent of an ad hom, and just as idiotic.
posted by jaduncan at 10:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's the geopolitical equivalent of an ad hom, and just as idiotic.
posted by jaduncan at 10:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So no one was allowed to take the papers that Trump had stacked next to him?
1 in 10 chance that they were just copies of the Bee Movie script.
posted by dis_integration at 10:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
1 in 10 chance that they were just copies of the Bee Movie script.
posted by dis_integration at 10:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
So no one was allowed to take the papers that Trump had stacked next to him?
I would've stocked up on all that free blank paper for my laser printer.
posted by bluecore at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I would've stocked up on all that free blank paper for my laser printer.
posted by bluecore at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't be the only one who has felt like this every day since the election. Thanks to all for saving (some of) my sanity with your comic liveblogging of this blackmirrored version of a press conference.
Oh man, the glory days of Red Meat, and that is the perfect encapsulation of the current situation.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh man, the glory days of Red Meat, and that is the perfect encapsulation of the current situation.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I find it hard to believe that they prepared a summary of something they thought was ostentatiously false, just so they could say "look, this is something false", and then tell people that they made this summary but not say why they did it. None of that makes sense, compared to the obvious alternative which is "they summarised it like they summarised all the briefing documents because they thought it was at least somewhat credible."
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
He should have tried to ask another question.
But with, like, a fake mustache
"I'm Jim Bcosta from uh... DNN....."
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 10:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
But with, like, a fake mustache
"I'm Jim Bcosta from uh... DNN....."
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 10:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Jesus, Rand Paul is such a blowhard. Over the last hour as I've been watching this hearing, even the other friendly questioners have asked real questions that at least give the appearance that they're trying to vet Tillerson, then Rand comes on to just ramble about how wasteful foreign aid is, not even asking Tillerson any real questions about how he would reduce waste in foreign aid. What an incredibly clueless, incurious person. His mindset is so frozen at "sophomore in the campus libertarian club." It figures that he thinks he'd make a great president.
posted by vathek at 10:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by vathek at 10:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think men in charge (of government, media, and anyone with power) were literally SO AFRAID of having a woman in power, that they did everything they could to discredit and undermine her, even if it meant driving our country straight to Trump. Cause at least he's a man! I know there are a million other factors involved, but the media's actions during this campaign lead me to no other conclusion.
posted by agregoli at 10:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 10:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's baffling and infuriating to see this attitude survive Russia's (let's be fair, US-enabled and -assisted) descent into protofascist dictatorship.
In my anecdotal experience it was mostly young guys who held these beliefs and there was a definite idealistic underpinning as well as a 'I know more then the olds on this matter, they are just sell-outs). Think Randian types but opposite. Most people grow out of a Rand phase. I was around 10 years older then the average age and it was made quite clear by some that I was just too stupid to understand because I was old and set in my ways (or something like that).
I think that these sorts idea are historical and just something that gets passed on from young to young as the majority grow out of it as they get more life experience. It something you should believe to be part of the group and really in the know. At least this is what I like to think is the reason they're hanging around.
posted by Jalliah at 10:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my anecdotal experience it was mostly young guys who held these beliefs and there was a definite idealistic underpinning as well as a 'I know more then the olds on this matter, they are just sell-outs). Think Randian types but opposite. Most people grow out of a Rand phase. I was around 10 years older then the average age and it was made quite clear by some that I was just too stupid to understand because I was old and set in my ways (or something like that).
I think that these sorts idea are historical and just something that gets passed on from young to young as the majority grow out of it as they get more life experience. It something you should believe to be part of the group and really in the know. At least this is what I like to think is the reason they're hanging around.
posted by Jalliah at 10:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
1 in 10 chance that they were just copies of the Bee Movie script.
Bee movie but every time they say bee it gets 10% more fascist
posted by saturday_morning at 10:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
Bee movie but every time they say bee it gets 10% more fascist
posted by saturday_morning at 10:12 AM on January 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
i just watched a you tube of the presser. been busy with work. but hey i was 1/2 kidding when i said this because i didn't think he was that stupid (or clever) BUT HE ACTUALLY STOOD THERE AND SAID IT. FUCK ME. JUST FUCK ME. I'M DONE.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
My only solace is that republican senators will be wringing their hands skinless on how to deal with Trump. He's their man-baby.
(Yes, I know, unfortunately so will we.)
posted by yoga at 10:15 AM on January 11, 2017
(Yes, I know, unfortunately so will we.)
posted by yoga at 10:15 AM on January 11, 2017
FYI: Sen. Booker's and Rep. Lewis' portion of the AG hearing is just starting.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 10:18 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
One telling moment was when the tax lawyer basically indicated they couldn't decouple the business from the brand. That's not really how most businesses, especially real estate businesses, work. I mean, yes, brands have value and are important to the success of the business, but hotels and apartment buildings and golf clubs are frequently rebranded and everyone copes. Even with some of the most valuable brands in the world, that brand is built on a valuable operating business with products and services people want and trust. Apple or BMW could change their name tomorrow if they had to, and no they wouldn't be as valuable, but the underlying demand for jPhones and NacBooks and CNX N3s would still be there because the products would be the same.
It's basically an admission that, say, the Trump DC hotel would be worth not just less if it didn't carry the name of the President-elect, but substantially less. More importantly, it's an admission that the core of the business is the brand licensing operation, in which he gets money for renting out his name, not the actual operating businesses where you have to pay staff and wash the windows and fix the air conditioners and all the inconvenient stuff that comes from actually having to run a business instead of getting paid to slap your name on stuff.
And that's an acknowledgement that the conflict of interest is inherently unresolvable without going bankrupt. The brand is central to the conflict, and the company cannot operate without new revenue from slapping the soon-to-be President's name up on more stuff.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
It's basically an admission that, say, the Trump DC hotel would be worth not just less if it didn't carry the name of the President-elect, but substantially less. More importantly, it's an admission that the core of the business is the brand licensing operation, in which he gets money for renting out his name, not the actual operating businesses where you have to pay staff and wash the windows and fix the air conditioners and all the inconvenient stuff that comes from actually having to run a business instead of getting paid to slap your name on stuff.
And that's an acknowledgement that the conflict of interest is inherently unresolvable without going bankrupt. The brand is central to the conflict, and the company cannot operate without new revenue from slapping the soon-to-be President's name up on more stuff.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
CNN has responded, formally to demand an explanation.
"... Given that members of the Trump transition team have so vocally criticized our reporting, we encourage them to identify, specifically, what they believe to be inaccurate."
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 10:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [71 favorites]
"... Given that members of the Trump transition team have so vocally criticized our reporting, we encourage them to identify, specifically, what they believe to be inaccurate."
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 10:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [71 favorites]
low brow humor break
BBC during the press conference.
posted by Jalliah at 10:21 AM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
I find it hard to believe that there's a law that says that anything that the president does is inherently not a conflict of interest.
There isn't. Trump is simply lying about that. There is a law on the books about conflicts of interest but that particular law exempts the president, the vice-president, members of congress and federal judges. There is no law that says that the president can't have a conflict of interest. He most certainly can, but he can't be prosecuted under that particular law.
It is like NYC that has an exemption to the parking laws for foreign diplomats. That does not mean that when a diplomat double parks, that it is not double parking and that it does not block the streets and does not inconvenience thousands of other people. It just means that they will not be prosecuted under that law.
Trump is simply wrong when he says that he can't have a conflict of interest.
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
There isn't. Trump is simply lying about that. There is a law on the books about conflicts of interest but that particular law exempts the president, the vice-president, members of congress and federal judges. There is no law that says that the president can't have a conflict of interest. He most certainly can, but he can't be prosecuted under that particular law.
It is like NYC that has an exemption to the parking laws for foreign diplomats. That does not mean that when a diplomat double parks, that it is not double parking and that it does not block the streets and does not inconvenience thousands of other people. It just means that they will not be prosecuted under that law.
Trump is simply wrong when he says that he can't have a conflict of interest.
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Listening to Cory Booker speak eloquently and passionately and in complete sentences that string together to form a larger thesis is like a balm on my nerves after the Trump shitfest.
posted by gatorae at 10:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 10:24 AM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Not only that, there are other laws, ranging from the emoluments clause to those against bribery, that do not exempt the President and cover a variety of specific forms of conflicts of interest.
But yes, the law simply covers who can be prosecuted for breaking it, not the actual definition of a conflict of interest.
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
But yes, the law simply covers who can be prosecuted for breaking it, not the actual definition of a conflict of interest.
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sorry about the misleading piss lead - I was told this some time ago (by someone with a good reason to tell me, and who didn't, as far as I know, want to urinate all over me), and I shall amend my records accordingly.
Yes, aston is standard UK TV jargon, at least at the BBC. This I can state with absolute confidence.
A correspondent on BBC radio reported a little earlier that he had made contact with sources within the Russian intellgence agencies and they had not only confirmed the report about Trump's moist mischief but said that multiple tapes exist, both audio and video, from multiple times and locations. So someone in there wants to fan the story, regardless of what actually happened, so whether it's an attempt to acccelerate the destabilisation of the US or a shot across Trump's bows to keep him on his toes, or whatever, who knows. As somebody else said recently - if you want to know what a headfuck it is reporting within Russia, it's all like this all the time.
I will now allow myself a five second break for complete existential despair.
[SILENT SCREAMING WITH EDVARD MUNCH GRAPHIC]
Ahh, that's... better?
posted by Devonian at 10:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yes, aston is standard UK TV jargon, at least at the BBC. This I can state with absolute confidence.
A correspondent on BBC radio reported a little earlier that he had made contact with sources within the Russian intellgence agencies and they had not only confirmed the report about Trump's moist mischief but said that multiple tapes exist, both audio and video, from multiple times and locations. So someone in there wants to fan the story, regardless of what actually happened, so whether it's an attempt to acccelerate the destabilisation of the US or a shot across Trump's bows to keep him on his toes, or whatever, who knows. As somebody else said recently - if you want to know what a headfuck it is reporting within Russia, it's all like this all the time.
I will now allow myself a five second break for complete existential despair.
[SILENT SCREAMING WITH EDVARD MUNCH GRAPHIC]
Ahh, that's... better?
posted by Devonian at 10:27 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Even the best-case scenario from this point forward — a Trump resignation or impeachment — will have proven how tribal and paranoid Americans are (including all of us on MetaFilter, to some extent) and how tenuously everything in this country is being held together. And even that outcome would take a miracle, but that's what I'm praying for, and that itself is pretty fucking depressing.
My only source of hope is that a sudden society-wide lurch toward decency will happen. It's not likely, but everything up until this point has been unlikely, too. My instincts may be far more pessimistic now, but they're also much harder to trust, because I'll be damned if I got a single prediction right during election season.
I get it, world. We live in chaos. Can we please regress to the mean now?
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
My only source of hope is that a sudden society-wide lurch toward decency will happen. It's not likely, but everything up until this point has been unlikely, too. My instincts may be far more pessimistic now, but they're also much harder to trust, because I'll be damned if I got a single prediction right during election season.
I get it, world. We live in chaos. Can we please regress to the mean now?
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
CNN has responded, formally to demand an explanation.
"... Given that members of the Trump transition team have so vocally criticized our reporting, we encourage them to identify, specifically, what they believe to be inaccurate."
Well, good for them. But the answer is going to be along the lines of, "they are fake news, you know it and I know it and weveryone knows it."
posted by thelonius at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
"... Given that members of the Trump transition team have so vocally criticized our reporting, we encourage them to identify, specifically, what they believe to be inaccurate."
Well, good for them. But the answer is going to be along the lines of, "they are fake news, you know it and I know it and weveryone knows it."
posted by thelonius at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know Sessions won't be stopped, such is the state of things, but give 'em hell, Cory Booker.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:29 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Doubling down on the Nazi Germany comment. Very presidential.
Considering the Trump Mirror, can we officially declare fascism now?
posted by JackFlash at 10:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Considering the Trump Mirror, can we officially declare fascism now?
posted by JackFlash at 10:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
My only solace is that republican senators will be wringing their hands skinless on how to deal with Trump. He's their man-baby.
Are you kidding? This is exactly what the Republican party wants. They never wanted Trump. Trump ripped into them, stole their party, and made them look like fools. So they sidled up to him while he picked their dream team for Vice President and cabinet, and now they're just biding their time until he is sworn in and the nominees are approved. Then they will impeach him as fast as they can. This will give them sweet revenge, all the power they ever wanted with a true Republican asshole in top office, and a world stage to play up how ethical they are as a way of whitewashing the fact that they are to blame for bringing Trump to power in the first place. This whole thing is being stage managed with brilliant, uncanny precision.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Are you kidding? This is exactly what the Republican party wants. They never wanted Trump. Trump ripped into them, stole their party, and made them look like fools. So they sidled up to him while he picked their dream team for Vice President and cabinet, and now they're just biding their time until he is sworn in and the nominees are approved. Then they will impeach him as fast as they can. This will give them sweet revenge, all the power they ever wanted with a true Republican asshole in top office, and a world stage to play up how ethical they are as a way of whitewashing the fact that they are to blame for bringing Trump to power in the first place. This whole thing is being stage managed with brilliant, uncanny precision.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
#CrippleProblems I am unable to place my face upon the desk before me.
posted by Soliloquy at 10:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 10:32 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Fake News", designed by the traditional media to denigrate websites which got more viewers than they did during the election has had a very quick boomerang effect and is now doing much more harm than good. We really are living in a new world of media, and no one really seems to understand it as well as Donald Trump, as bizarre as that seems.
posted by cell divide at 10:34 AM on January 11, 2017
posted by cell divide at 10:34 AM on January 11, 2017
which got more viewers than they did during the election
Uh I don't think that's what makes them fake
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Uh I don't think that's what makes them fake
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
This whole thing is being stage managed with brilliant, uncanny precision.
See, I would be willing to entertain the scenario outlined in this comment except for the problem exposed in the last line.
I don't think the GOP leadership is competent or tight-lipped enough to be able to keep this conspiracy a secret. (I would be quite happy to be proved wrong, though.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
See, I would be willing to entertain the scenario outlined in this comment except for the problem exposed in the last line.
I don't think the GOP leadership is competent or tight-lipped enough to be able to keep this conspiracy a secret. (I would be quite happy to be proved wrong, though.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:36 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
IRFH that sounds so plausible and yet, their panic about him winning the nom seemed entirely real and I just don't think they're playing that level of 12-dimensional chess.
I mean, that might be what happens, now but I don't think it's what was planned from the getgo.
And if I were a Republican party higher-up, much as I might like your scenario, I would still be worried about Trump's unpredictability/ability to blow shit up, and even more, whatever info the Russians might have on my people. Because you know there is some.
posted by emjaybee at 10:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean, that might be what happens, now but I don't think it's what was planned from the getgo.
And if I were a Republican party higher-up, much as I might like your scenario, I would still be worried about Trump's unpredictability/ability to blow shit up, and even more, whatever info the Russians might have on my people. Because you know there is some.
posted by emjaybee at 10:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
CNN deserves every bit of Trump scorn and none of our pity. They intentionally put Lewdanoski and Jeffery Lord on air as paid members of the Trump campaign. They ran hours of unfiltered Trump rallies. They threw their entire network behind getting Trump elected. They won the election for him as much as Comey or Russia, and now they get to reap their just rewards.
Their cries of journalism now fall on deaf ears. That ship sailed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
Their cries of journalism now fall on deaf ears. That ship sailed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:38 AM on January 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
We're now in the third revision of what "fake news" is perceived to mean. It went from "sites that literally just make shit up and pretend to be a journalism outlet in order to trick people" to "an insult thrown around by media companies to denigrate their upstart competitors" to "outlets that post stories I'd rather not be real, because truth has no meaning."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
JackFlash I've been declaring Trump Fascist for months now. He matches 10 of Eco's 14 characteristics of Fascism perfectly, and three partially.
Trump isn't a Nazi, but he is a Fascist. Mind, this isn't old school 1920's Fascism, this isn't your grandfather's Fascism, this is Fascism 2.0 all dressed up in a new costume ('Murca!) and revamped as a fresh, start, Silicon Valley style disruption. It's horribly dangerous and I am genuinely concerned for the integrity, or even existence, of future elections.
posted by sotonohito at 10:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump isn't a Nazi, but he is a Fascist. Mind, this isn't old school 1920's Fascism, this isn't your grandfather's Fascism, this is Fascism 2.0 all dressed up in a new costume ('Murca!) and revamped as a fresh, start, Silicon Valley style disruption. It's horribly dangerous and I am genuinely concerned for the integrity, or even existence, of future elections.
posted by sotonohito at 10:41 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Their "journalistic standards" allowed them to publish every single anti-Clinton smear the far right could conjure up out of their fever dreams, but FSB kompromat on Trump was a bridge too far?
This also pretty roundly disproves Al Franken's assertion during the Bush II years that the media doesn't have a liberal bias, but a sensationalist bias. What could possibly be more sensational than learning that a major-party nominee for POTUS has been compromised by a rival power, helped that power's criminal syndicates launder their illegally-obtained riches, all topped with a salacious story about bodily fluids and sex trafficking?
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
This also pretty roundly disproves Al Franken's assertion during the Bush II years that the media doesn't have a liberal bias, but a sensationalist bias. What could possibly be more sensational than learning that a major-party nominee for POTUS has been compromised by a rival power, helped that power's criminal syndicates launder their illegally-obtained riches, all topped with a salacious story about bodily fluids and sex trafficking?
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
(Not to mention colluding with the rival power to drop unflattering intel on his political opponent. It's easy to forget just how much they're getting away with so far.)
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
IRFH that sounds so plausible and yet, their panic about him winning the nom seemed entirely real and I just don't think they're playing that level of 12-dimensional chess.
I mean, that might be what happens, now but I don't think it's what was planned from the getgo.
And if I were a Republican party higher-up, much as I might like your scenario, I would still be worried about Trump's unpredictability/ability to blow shit up, and even more, whatever info the Russians might have on my people. Because you know there is some.
No, I don't think that was their plan all along. I think that was the plan they came up with when it became obvious that Trump was winning the nom. Remember how there was this period when all the top Republicans were still all "Never Trump," and then all of a sudden they all flipped to all-in? Now, a cynical person would think they were self-serving hypocrites who would rather be on the winning team than the right side of history. But a REALLY cynical person thinks they got a look at some of this stuff that was floating around about him, realized that he was going to implode almost immediately, and came up with the perfect plan to get everything they ever wanted, and shiv him in the back as soon as it's politically expedient. I've been saying this for a while now, and I originally thought it might take up to 2 years (giving them the chance to showboat just before the mid-terms), but now I don't think he'll make it through the year.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, that might be what happens, now but I don't think it's what was planned from the getgo.
And if I were a Republican party higher-up, much as I might like your scenario, I would still be worried about Trump's unpredictability/ability to blow shit up, and even more, whatever info the Russians might have on my people. Because you know there is some.
No, I don't think that was their plan all along. I think that was the plan they came up with when it became obvious that Trump was winning the nom. Remember how there was this period when all the top Republicans were still all "Never Trump," and then all of a sudden they all flipped to all-in? Now, a cynical person would think they were self-serving hypocrites who would rather be on the winning team than the right side of history. But a REALLY cynical person thinks they got a look at some of this stuff that was floating around about him, realized that he was going to implode almost immediately, and came up with the perfect plan to get everything they ever wanted, and shiv him in the back as soon as it's politically expedient. I've been saying this for a while now, and I originally thought it might take up to 2 years (giving them the chance to showboat just before the mid-terms), but now I don't think he'll make it through the year.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's a lot of room between "CNN is a noble and dignified journalistic institution that should be held in the highest regard for their sober, considered coverage" and "CNN is a pariah that should not be allowed to ask a question at an open press conference."
posted by contraption at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by contraption at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [67 favorites]
Trumpites: It's a post-truth era! You can't prove what we're saying isn't true.
Leaked report: Trump hires hookers to piss on him; Kremlin owns him, gives him orders.
Trumpites: You can't spread that kind of unsubstantiated claim!
Everyone: LOLDGAF.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
Leaked report: Trump hires hookers to piss on him; Kremlin owns him, gives him orders.
Trumpites: You can't spread that kind of unsubstantiated claim!
Everyone: LOLDGAF.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
I think the difference might have been that Clinton usually responded in a predictable manner to libelous stories - deny, maybe laugh about it, move on. Trump threatened lawsuits and had deep pocket friends willing to help with the lawsuits (Thiel) against the news agencies. The standard to publish or not to publish wasn't an ethical one, but one based on how afraid they were of the subject. They were plenty afraid of Trump. Perhaps, at least.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The media in the US is a self-serving, ratings-driven mess. CNN/Buzzfeed/WaPo/NYT have dropped the ball on many, many occasions. We can blame them in part for Trump.
But that doesn't make Breitbart, Fox, the_donald, or Infowars any more "real" news, and they're throwing mud on conventional media to make themselves look like brave defenders of Hard-Hitting Truth in Journalism in comparison. The "CNN is fake news" thing is the logical equivalent of "I'm rubber, you're glue".
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
But that doesn't make Breitbart, Fox, the_donald, or Infowars any more "real" news, and they're throwing mud on conventional media to make themselves look like brave defenders of Hard-Hitting Truth in Journalism in comparison. The "CNN is fake news" thing is the logical equivalent of "I'm rubber, you're glue".
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
sotonohito: JackFlash I've been declaring Trump Fascist for months now. He matches 10 of Eco's 14 characteristics of Fascism perfectly, and three partially. Trump isn't a Nazi, but he is a Fascist. Mind, this isn't old school 1920's Fascism, this isn't your grandfather's Fascism, this is Fascism 2.0 all dressed up in a new costume ('Murca!) and revamped as a fresh, start, Silicon Valley style disruption. It's horribly dangerous and I am genuinely concerned for the integrity, or even existence, of future elections.
QFT. There is no question that we're looking at fascism. What's especially terrifying is how many Americans seem to welcome it.
posted by Superplin at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
QFT. There is no question that we're looking at fascism. What's especially terrifying is how many Americans seem to welcome it.
posted by Superplin at 10:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
What's especially terrifying is how many Americans seem to welcome it.
These jackboots look great when I'm wearing them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
These jackboots look great when I'm wearing them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Seriously, "Make America Great Again", especially when combined with a plethora of fake populism and hardcore white nationalist racism, is basically a giant siren that plays a recording of a guy saying "Fascism. This is fascism. This is fascism" over and over.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
What's especially terrifying is how many Americans seem to welcome it.
To them fascism is swastikas and jackboots (jinx, Joey). They won't know fascism until they watch their friends and neighbors get loaded on the trains. Then they'll wonder why nobody warned them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
To them fascism is swastikas and jackboots (jinx, Joey). They won't know fascism until they watch their friends and neighbors get loaded on the trains. Then they'll wonder why nobody warned them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Jalliah: 15 years ago in University part of the reason I ended up bailing on a couple of leftie activist groups was because I couldn't stand listening to how much better Russia was then the US and just basic Russian apologetics. From the debates I had I gathered it's because of the idea that Communism and socialism is inherently good, matter of principle. And no amount of arguing about reality verses theory mattered. It was so binary.
The lack of understanding about the actual situation in the USSR (and other Marxist-Lennist-Maoist) countries is why I am emphatically not a Marxist. Most of the Marxists I have met know nothing about how these countries actually work(ed) in terms of their social policies and economies, and the conversation quickly descending in a condescending mess of Marxist jargon that seemingly inevitably boils down to a really fancy No True Scotsman.
For so many ostensibly anti-authoritarian leftist types to fetishize a dictatorial, KGB-sourced and backed ruler is utterly mystifying.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
The lack of understanding about the actual situation in the USSR (and other Marxist-Lennist-Maoist) countries is why I am emphatically not a Marxist. Most of the Marxists I have met know nothing about how these countries actually work(ed) in terms of their social policies and economies, and the conversation quickly descending in a condescending mess of Marxist jargon that seemingly inevitably boils down to a really fancy No True Scotsman.
For so many ostensibly anti-authoritarian leftist types to fetishize a dictatorial, KGB-sourced and backed ruler is utterly mystifying.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Booker testifying against Sessions: "the arc of the moral universe does not just curve toward justice, we must bend it."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:53 AM on January 11, 2017 [77 favorites]
QFT. There is no question that we're looking at fascism. What's especially terrifying is how many Americans seem to welcome it.
If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States. -Henry A. Wallace
posted by entropicamericana at 10:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States. -Henry A. Wallace
posted by entropicamericana at 10:55 AM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
For so many ostensibly anti-authoritarian leftist types, the fetishism for a dictatorial KGB-back ruler is utterly mystifying.
old loves die hard.
posted by philip-random at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
old loves die hard.
posted by philip-random at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Booker has flaws, but he's earned a lot of my respect this election cycle in a year when a lot of people lost it.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
They won't know fascism until they watch their friends and neighbors get loaded on the trains. Then they'll wonder why nobody warned them.
No they won't. They'll just assume their friends and neighbors deserve it.
posted by happyroach at 10:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
No they won't. They'll just assume their friends and neighbors deserve it.
posted by happyroach at 10:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
If we define an American fascist as..
.. if we are playing internet quote slinging, let's pull out the Umberto Eco list mentioned above.
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
-- the entire list is worth looking at beyond the (very easy) pull quotes above.
posted by kariebookish at 11:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
.. if we are playing internet quote slinging, let's pull out the Umberto Eco list mentioned above.
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
-- the entire list is worth looking at beyond the (very easy) pull quotes above.
posted by kariebookish at 11:00 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Erick Eriksen: "BTW, I know Jim Acosta and he's a great reporter, extremely fair and honest."
posted by corb at 11:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:01 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also "14 ways of looking at a Blackshirt" is one of the greatest puns of all time
posted by thelonius at 11:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 11:02 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
No they won't. They'll just assume their friends and neighbors deserve it.
So not just Trump supporters, not just Trump voters, but everybody who doesn't recognize Trump as a fascist is going to think that? I think that's grossly untrue and irresponsible to say, and that assuming that the majority of the country is your enemy and a threat will not helpful when the worst starts to happen.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:04 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
BBC Radio discussing multiple videos claim.
posted by scalefree at 11:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 11:06 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Among purple mountains majesty,
The only moving things
Were the eyes of the blackshirts.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
The only moving things
Were the eyes of the blackshirts.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:07 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
They'll just assume their friends and neighbors deserve it.
Last Scream of the Missing Neighbors
posted by philip-random at 11:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Last Scream of the Missing Neighbors
posted by philip-random at 11:08 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Holy god, the livestream of Sessions' hearing with Booker (and now Lynch) has a comments stream beside it that's just a nonstop flood of overt and violent racism, transphobia and homophobia. A whole lot of people are just gonna rejoice when their neighbors get bused off.
posted by byanyothername at 11:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 11:11 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Are they neighbors or are they hackers?
posted by rabidsegue at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rabidsegue at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I honestly don't know where the thought came from, but the best way to enact real gun control might be for everyone on the left to suddenly get up, buy guns, start range shooting, form a mirror NRA... you'd see strict controls appear out of the glistening green fog in no time.
posted by Devonian at 11:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 11:14 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
And Why Not: The Watergate Is On Fire.
posted by octothorpe at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
So not just Trump supporters, not just Trump voters, but everybody who doesn't recognize Trump as a fascist is going to think that? I think that's grossly untrue and irresponsible to say, and that assuming that the majority of the country is your enemy and a threat will not helpful when the worst starts to happen.
Read some things written by people who were in Germany during the 30s and 40s. It's not grossly untrue or irresponsible, it's just aware of the past.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Read some things written by people who were in Germany during the 30s and 40s. It's not grossly untrue or irresponsible, it's just aware of the past.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Taking Fake Books on Subway: UNPRESIDENTED EDITION
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've always assumed it would be my neighbors who dragged each other onto the bus. And I live in a blue state.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Watergate Is On Fire
Must be the building equivalent of rolling over in a grave.
posted by stopgap at 11:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Must be the building equivalent of rolling over in a grave.
posted by stopgap at 11:16 AM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
And Why Not: The Watergate Is On Fire.
editor's note: too on the nose, delete this
posted by entropicamericana at 11:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
editor's note: too on the nose, delete this
posted by entropicamericana at 11:19 AM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Watergate Is On Fire
Must be the building equivalent of rolling over in a grave.
Or feeling like yourconcealed listening devices ears are burning.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Must be the building equivalent of rolling over in a grave.
Or feeling like your
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Deadspin has a perspective on Buzzfeed, Craven Reporters Scold BuzzFeed For Reporting News. I don't particularly agree: there's substantially more to reporting news than just republishing an unverified document without much regard for its veracity, but I think that Buzzfeed's perspective, that it's stupid to have this thing that has been circulating literally everywhere for months that only the media elites can see, isn't entirely ridiculous.
And I find it telling that, given how many people had copies, nobody published at any time during the election, even as Trump's own associates were sharing Pizzagate stories.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
And I find it telling that, given how many people had copies, nobody published at any time during the election, even as Trump's own associates were sharing Pizzagate stories.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
I'm not a big or heavy person, and I have anxiety, so I'm easily intimidated in arguments. I have trouble standing up to conservative family and friends, let alone policemen with tear gas or people threatening me.
I realize now the safety pin is an empty gesture, but I wore it to my job one day as a sign of passive resistance, and even that got me intimidated at work. No one stood up for me.
So my New Year's resolution for 2017 is to be brave, stand up for others, and to not to be intimidated. Because the only person whose behavior is in my immediate control is mine.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [59 favorites]
I realize now the safety pin is an empty gesture, but I wore it to my job one day as a sign of passive resistance, and even that got me intimidated at work. No one stood up for me.
So my New Year's resolution for 2017 is to be brave, stand up for others, and to not to be intimidated. Because the only person whose behavior is in my immediate control is mine.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:25 AM on January 11, 2017 [59 favorites]
To be honest, what evidence have they given that they will be helpful and trustworthy if the worst does happen?
I mean, Inglorious Basterds is wholly fiction, but I'm not convinced most people wouldn't roll over faster than the French farmer if push came to shove. I'm not convinced that most people wouldn't fold as spectacularly as a Democratic congress.
People will look out for their own. I don't assume they're my enemy, but I won't assume they're my ally.
So I have been part of a few things where there was white (nationalist) vs POC (FNs) conflict. Like in your face, face to face, throwing shit, threatening, calling for the worst punishment that the law could allow type conflict. Also tons and tons of lying to media and general media fuckery. I think the only reason it wasn't worse was that it was still the early days of social media. They sure tried with what existed though.
This one conflict went on for months and took place on the outside of a town. There were people in the town that support and would come out to stand with the FNs. Out of this group there were fewer that would stick around if it looked like they might be physically in danger or having something happen that would mess up their lives, like being arrested. There was a limit to support.
However there were a whole lot more who came out and joined in to the sometime daily bouts of harrassment. Not only that it was a party 'bring your beer get the Indians! Har har.' By and large the largest block of people did nothing. Never saw them, never heard them beyond complaining about the inconvenience.
The only thing that kept all these people from doing actual harm was the police. They stood between the groups. And boy oh boy I can still here the howl of rage that went up on the night that the police line turned to face the town (mostly white people) instead of the Natives. It was a scandal of all scandals.
Now imagine all this if the police or powers that be were actually doing what these people wanted?
While I do think that there will be people that would stand up my experience just doesn't fly with it being some huge number when their lives could be affected whether physically, socially or economically.
posted by Jalliah at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted; let's not re-fight the same fight about blanket "fuck them"s about rural people.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Read some things written by people who were in Germany during the 30s and 40s. It's not grossly untrue or irresponsible, it's just aware of the past.
This is probably going to get deleted and that's OK, but I gotta say my piece here.
I cannot tell you how tired I am of hearing this whenever in the last few weeks I have tried to argue that it's wrong to immediately assume your neighbors will cheer you onto the train, and wrong to approach every american you see as if they're a secret Trumpist just waiting to emerge when Daddy tells them to.
I've said this before but will again: I am from a family of holocaust survivors. I am a degreed historian with a lifelong obsession with the holocaust and have spent the last 10 years curating my family's holocaust-era correspondence. I can tell you about the story and statistics for every Operation Reinhart death camp. I can outline the minutes of the Wannsee Conference by memory.
Do not fucking tell me to go read about the nazis.
YOU should read about the nazis.
Read about how the end-state of their actions came after years and decades of them being in power and gradual escalation, combined with the chaos of the war, how much more entrenched antisemitism and anticommunism were in society and how much more acceptable these specific actions were to everyday germans in the context of the early 20th century, how Hitler and was IMMENSELY more popular and had an actual personality cult with an actual army of brownshirts instead of /r/the_donald.
Trump is a fascist. Things are very fucked up. Eventually there could be widespread support for fascist actions, sure, in the right contexts and if the regime does it skillfully. But to assume that about your neighbors now is inappropriate and irresponsible and just goddamned wrong.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:31 AM on January 11, 2017 [108 favorites]
My state is already trying to strip me of any rights, so. There will probably not be literal trains and buses, but there will be enormous blows to civil rights, social services, access to healthcare, etc. etc. and that is going to kill people just as efficiently as overt firing squads. It is obvious that most Americans not directly affected - including Democrats, who are largely the "wealthy white people" party that assumes being "less racist/bigoted" than Republicans means all vulnerable minorities will automatically vote for them - don't care about this. I have heard so much normalizing, so many variants of, "It's all fine" in the past few weeks and things continue to look set to wholly unravel in multiple directions.
posted by byanyothername at 11:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 11:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
This guy is my literal neighbor. He is 100 percent ready to send people to camps. Trust me. I am not assuming.
posted by Etrigan at 11:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:37 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
So one thing we haven't seen (nor did anyone ask about it) is a plan to address the Old Post Office lease, which reads ""No ... elected official of the Government of the United States ... shall be admitted to any share or part of this Lease, or to any benefit that may arise therefrom." Nothing in the plan they announced today would seem to address that; just moving stuff into a trust doesn't matter if Trump still owns the thing.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think they need to keep making deals to keep the whole operation afloat.
That's been obvious for a long time. I mean, the fucking family business is run off a tangle of LLCs reported on personal tax returns, where money flows around like a dodgy irrigation system.
On Buzzfeed: as former Gawker editor John Cook put it, "media sin-eaters can be useful", especially in an American media climate that manages to combine superficial sensationalism and po-facedness.
posted by holgate at 11:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's been obvious for a long time. I mean, the fucking family business is run off a tangle of LLCs reported on personal tax returns, where money flows around like a dodgy irrigation system.
On Buzzfeed: as former Gawker editor John Cook put it, "media sin-eaters can be useful", especially in an American media climate that manages to combine superficial sensationalism and po-facedness.
posted by holgate at 11:42 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The problem I see is that I think the trains, buses, camps thing will NOT happen and is mostly an overreaction. But people have hyped that up to the point where Rachel Maddow is joking about being put in a camp. So when that doesn't happen and much more subtle things go on, all the people who would protest their neighbors going in a camp or would shelter Muslims in their homes will not be paying attention to under the radar tactics.
posted by zutalors! at 11:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 11:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
I think it's kind of naive to be worrying about people standing up to neighbors being loaded onto trains. By the time a government gets to that open persecution of people, you already have close to 100% buy-in from the population. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe never.
I think what we need to be looking out for is the quieter versions. People just disappearing, like happens in some South American countries. Or more likely, cops coming and arresting people for immigration-related or "terrorism"-related charges and taking them away for questioning. The kind of thing it's hard to fight back against because sometimes that can be real - and if it is real you don't want to be accused of collaboration. Everything will look very legal.
America has perfected the Friday-afternoon downsizing and the "security walking you out" firing and the overmilitarized response to casual protests. Not to mention "detention" without trial or charges. Bad things happen in a quiet, "nothing to see here" way that minimizes your ability to respond.
That's what my worry is. I really do believe most Americans would fight anything resembling open roundups.
posted by Mchelly at 11:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [80 favorites]
I think what we need to be looking out for is the quieter versions. People just disappearing, like happens in some South American countries. Or more likely, cops coming and arresting people for immigration-related or "terrorism"-related charges and taking them away for questioning. The kind of thing it's hard to fight back against because sometimes that can be real - and if it is real you don't want to be accused of collaboration. Everything will look very legal.
America has perfected the Friday-afternoon downsizing and the "security walking you out" firing and the overmilitarized response to casual protests. Not to mention "detention" without trial or charges. Bad things happen in a quiet, "nothing to see here" way that minimizes your ability to respond.
That's what my worry is. I really do believe most Americans would fight anything resembling open roundups.
posted by Mchelly at 11:44 AM on January 11, 2017 [80 favorites]
The emissary hastily arranged a transatlantic flight and met the source at the airport as arranged. (The Guardian has agreed not to specify the city or country where the meeting took place.) The meeting had a certain cold war tradecraft to it, as he was told to look for a man with a copy of the Financial Times. Having found each other, the retired counter-intelligence officer drove the emissary to his house, where they discussed the documents and their background.
Good thing so few people in international airports read the Financial Times
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Good thing so few people in international airports read the Financial Times
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Agreed, Rust Moranis. I don't think Trump or his surrogates speak for even a plurality of the people in this country, and he is most certainly not popular beyond his base. Going by the election results alone, he lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million against a Democratic candidate who was weighed down by decades of smears. There are more of us than there are of them, and if we can awaken and activate the ~50% of the public who for one reason or another chose not to vote in 2016, Trump is absolutely beatable.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I realize now the safety pin is an empty gesture, but I wore it to my job one day as a sign of passive resistance, and even that got me intimidated at work. No one stood up for me.
I just want to say that I don't think the safety pins are an empty gesture and I - as a visibly queer person - have been kind of frustrated by all the "you phony safety-pin wearers" stuff going around. I'm not saying that I look at someone wearing a safety pin and think "here is someone who will totally have my back", but I do look at them and think "here is someone around whom I don't have to pretend to be "neutral" about politics or to like Trump supporters, or to pretend that I think everything is going to be just fiiiiiine in my life because it makes centrists and conservatives uncomfortable to be confronted with real people who are angry". It's a relief to me to look at people and be able to see that not all of them voted against the very existence of people like me, and that not all of them are homophobes, etc.
posted by Frowner at 11:46 AM on January 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
Eventually there could be widespread support for fascist actions, sure, in the right contexts and if the regime does it skillfully. But to assume that about your neighbors now is inappropriate and irresponsible and just goddamned wrong.
I think your comment gets the dynamics of the historical fascist rise to power correct, but in my opinion, kind of misses the point with respect to whether one's neighbors should be assumed to be trustworthy. There can be no fascist rise to power if a sufficient percentage of the population are not at heart sympathetic to fascist principles. Sure, it takes time for those sympathies to be played upon sufficiently to really grow a power base, but that has nothing to do with the hearts and minds of your neighbors.
Do I assume my neighbors are all closet fascists? No. Not really. Do I assume that they aren't? Honestly, no, I don't.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think your comment gets the dynamics of the historical fascist rise to power correct, but in my opinion, kind of misses the point with respect to whether one's neighbors should be assumed to be trustworthy. There can be no fascist rise to power if a sufficient percentage of the population are not at heart sympathetic to fascist principles. Sure, it takes time for those sympathies to be played upon sufficiently to really grow a power base, but that has nothing to do with the hearts and minds of your neighbors.
Do I assume my neighbors are all closet fascists? No. Not really. Do I assume that they aren't? Honestly, no, I don't.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:47 AM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Deep State Goes to War with President-Elect, Using Unverified Claims, as Democrats Cheer
It's cool that we live in a reality where every day the Star Wars prequels somehow look more and more prophetic and insightful.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's cool that we live in a reality where every day the Star Wars prequels somehow look more and more prophetic and insightful.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:48 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
There will probably not be literal trains and buses
In fact, there are! We have a huge system of jails and prisons that are already filled disproportionately with nonwhite people! If you're wondering how many of neighbors would raise a stink about you getting shipped off in one of our many already-extant prison-transport vehicles, a great first question is: how much do my neighbors currently agitate about prison reform?
Exactly 100%
posted by zutalors! at 11:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
In fact, there are! We have a huge system of jails and prisons that are already filled disproportionately with nonwhite people! If you're wondering how many of neighbors would raise a stink about you getting shipped off in one of our many already-extant prison-transport vehicles, a great first question is: how much do my neighbors currently agitate about prison reform?
Exactly 100%
posted by zutalors! at 11:50 AM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Our guy gets a name. WSJ - Christopher Steele, Ex-British Intelligence Officer, Said to Have Prepared Dossier on Trump
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
The dossier contains lurid and difficult-to-prove allegations. The F.B.I. has found no evidence, for example, supporting the dossier’s claim that an attorney for Mr. Trump traveled to the Czech Republic to meet with Kremlin officials, U.S. officials said. The attorney has also denied the claim.My gut is still that the information was provided by Russian intelligence. They wanted Trump to think they had the goods on him, whether they did or not.
The author of the report had a good reputation in the intelligence world and was stationed in Russia for years, said John Sipher, who retired in 2014 after 28 years in the CIA’s clandestine service, where he specialized in Russia and counterintelligence.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
So it's not like they don't actively want it already. The good news is that we're talking about only, maybe, 17-20% of the US voting population. But they're also the ones in power.
Right. Say it's 20%. Say the regime is skillful enough to double (that so far no reason to think they are) and STILL over 60% of the country would be opposed to them. They won't necessarily help you, but that's a far fucking cry from "if they don't know now that Trump is a capital-F Fascist then they will think you must have done something wrong when they disappear you."
Also Mchelly, I agree that Operation Condor style disappearances are far more likely. Everybody should be on the lookout for stories of missing activists if the press is still able to report on it. Then it's time to go way underground or get out.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Right. Say it's 20%. Say the regime is skillful enough to double (that so far no reason to think they are) and STILL over 60% of the country would be opposed to them. They won't necessarily help you, but that's a far fucking cry from "if they don't know now that Trump is a capital-F Fascist then they will think you must have done something wrong when they disappear you."
Also Mchelly, I agree that Operation Condor style disappearances are far more likely. Everybody should be on the lookout for stories of missing activists if the press is still able to report on it. Then it's time to go way underground or get out.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:52 AM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Christopher Steele
John Sipher
What are all these rejected Tom Clancy-ass names
posted by theodolite at 11:54 AM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
John Sipher
What are all these rejected Tom Clancy-ass names
posted by theodolite at 11:54 AM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
I think it's kind of naive to be worrying about people standing up to neighbors being loaded onto trains.
Yes, that would not be subtle but this is the incoming Trump administration we're talking about here. For all we know, he'd make a reality show out of it where people could vote off which neighbor goes to the camps.
posted by asteria at 11:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, that would not be subtle but this is the incoming Trump administration we're talking about here. For all we know, he'd make a reality show out of it where people could vote off which neighbor goes to the camps.
posted by asteria at 11:56 AM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Booker has flaws, but he's earned a lot of my respect this election cycle in a year when a lot of people lost it.
His response to Trump was the best thing I've ever heard on the topic:
"He wants us to be speculating. It sounds so sinister, I don't care. I love you Donald. I pray for you. I hope that you find some kindness in your heart, that you're not going to be somebody that spews out insults to your political opposition, that you're going to find some way to love."
"I love you. I just don't want him to be my president. I don't want you to have the White House to be spewing that kind of mean-spirited hate that doesn't even belong in a playground sandbox,"
"I'm just gonna keep loving on him. I'm gonna tell the truth about him but I'm going to keep loving on him, that kind of vitriol, that kind of meanness has no place in the presidency."
"Bring it on Donald. Show your truth. I'm gonna show mine. Love you, brother."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
His response to Trump was the best thing I've ever heard on the topic:
"He wants us to be speculating. It sounds so sinister, I don't care. I love you Donald. I pray for you. I hope that you find some kindness in your heart, that you're not going to be somebody that spews out insults to your political opposition, that you're going to find some way to love."
"I love you. I just don't want him to be my president. I don't want you to have the White House to be spewing that kind of mean-spirited hate that doesn't even belong in a playground sandbox,"
"I'm just gonna keep loving on him. I'm gonna tell the truth about him but I'm going to keep loving on him, that kind of vitriol, that kind of meanness has no place in the presidency."
"Bring it on Donald. Show your truth. I'm gonna show mine. Love you, brother."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
They won't necessarily help you, but that's a far fucking cry from "if they don't know now that Trump is a capital-F Fascist then they will think you must have done something wrong when they disappear you."
This is directly contradicted by the current treatment by the general public of police murders of black people. And also police murders of white people. White people don't stand up for people (including other white people) killed by cops; they just assume the police were justified.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is directly contradicted by the current treatment by the general public of police murders of black people. And also police murders of white people. White people don't stand up for people (including other white people) killed by cops; they just assume the police were justified.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:57 AM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
If you're wondering how many of neighbors would raise a stink about you getting shipped off in one of our many already-extant prison-transport vehicles, a great first question is: how much do my neighbors currently agitate about prison reform?
Or about immigration detention centers and their prison-like conditions?
posted by alligatorpear at 11:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Or about immigration detention centers and their prison-like conditions?
posted by alligatorpear at 11:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Christopher Steele's company, Orbis Business Intelligence.
posted by scalefree at 11:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 11:58 AM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's cool that we live in a reality where every day the Star Wars prequels somehow look more and more prophetic and insightful.
Obama is Yoda commanding the clone army.
posted by My Dad at 11:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obama is Yoda commanding the clone army.
posted by My Dad at 11:59 AM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
John Sipher, who retired in 2014 after 28 years in the CIA’s clandestine service
eponysterical
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
eponysterical
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also cool: Mark Zuckerberg may or may not have been preparing for a future run for president so it appears that we're also living in a reality where the only way to beat a New York social media celebrity billionaire is to be one
posted by Apocryphon at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah multiple locked buses leave every major American city every day on their way to immigration detention facilities and deportations. It's not some big secret; here in SF they literally park them outside next to the immigration office. Some of the people on those buses have committed multiple violent crimes, others have done little more than care for their families. All will receive substandard legal process and won't be entitled to a lawyer if they can't afford one. Under Trump, young adults who were brought to this country as infants could be on those buses. It's not so theoretical.
posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
I don't buy that Republicans will impeach him. Not for one. Second.
posted by yoga at 12:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by yoga at 12:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
For those of us outside WSJ's paywall, here a piece from Forbes.
posted by scalefree at 12:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 12:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
CNBC: Donald Trump's colossal error on jobs during his press conference
Trump claimed 96 million people want jobs but can't get them. Of the 96 million people aged 16+ who don't have jobs, only 5.4 million people say they want one. Even U6, which counts people with part-time or casual work who are looking for more, is 14.7 million people (by percentage terms, roughly where it was on average in 2001-2007). The remaining 82 million or so people are in school, retired, sick or disabled, busy with something else, or otherwise not interested in a job.
posted by zachlipton at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump claimed 96 million people want jobs but can't get them. Of the 96 million people aged 16+ who don't have jobs, only 5.4 million people say they want one. Even U6, which counts people with part-time or casual work who are looking for more, is 14.7 million people (by percentage terms, roughly where it was on average in 2001-2007). The remaining 82 million or so people are in school, retired, sick or disabled, busy with something else, or otherwise not interested in a job.
posted by zachlipton at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's cool that we live in a reality where every day the Star Wars prequels somehow look more and more prophetic and insightful.
It's funny that this is so on point. Trump is absolutely a threat right now. But the dangers posed to our society by the national security apparatus are even more broad and wide-ranging in scope.
It's the t-rex versus velociraptor metaphor again.
That said, I'd rather remove the nuke-happy kleptocratic fascist first, and then move on to reforming the security state.
At least those guys are marginally competent.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's funny that this is so on point. Trump is absolutely a threat right now. But the dangers posed to our society by the national security apparatus are even more broad and wide-ranging in scope.
It's the t-rex versus velociraptor metaphor again.
That said, I'd rather remove the nuke-happy kleptocratic fascist first, and then move on to reforming the security state.
At least those guys are marginally competent.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Michael Schindler, aka @20committee, in the (still Kushner-owned) NY Observer:
posted by holgate at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
In truth, the provenance of the 35-page dossier is well known in proper channels. Some of its assertions have been made by other NATO intelligence agencies, privately. Some of its claims are false, some are true, and some may linger between truth and fiction indefinitely. What’s important here is that the IC leadership decided to brief a small circle of the most senior American officials on that dossier’s findings. They don’t do that, ever—treating raw private intelligence reports by foreigners as worthy of briefing to “the top”—unless they can corroborate significant portions of it.He also speculates on whether it's part of a provocation campaign.
posted by holgate at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also, I think CNBC said "error" when they meant "lie."
posted by zachlipton at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
And Why Not: The Watergate Is On Fire.
editor's note: too on the nose, delete this
It just wants to set it straight.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on January 11, 2017
editor's note: too on the nose, delete this
It just wants to set it straight.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on January 11, 2017
Christopher Steele
John Sipher
What are all these rejected Tom Clancy-ass names
It's only a matter of time until Max Power makes an appearance.
posted by diogenes at 12:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
John Sipher
What are all these rejected Tom Clancy-ass names
It's only a matter of time until Max Power makes an appearance.
posted by diogenes at 12:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
John Sipher, who retired in 2014 after 28 years in the CIA’s clandestine service
eponysterical
His only career alternative was stealing gas from cars with a hose.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:08 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
eponysterical
His only career alternative was stealing gas from cars with a hose.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:08 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wonder if he's any relation to Bill.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
They don’t do that, ever—treating raw private intelligence reports by foreigners as worthy of briefing to “the top”—unless they can corroborate significant portions of it.
It would be super if they would let us know which portions they can corroborate.
posted by diogenes at 12:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It would be super if they would let us know which portions they can corroborate.
posted by diogenes at 12:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wonder if he's any relation to Bill.
Or Lou. I've heard a lot online about Obama working closely with Lou Sipher.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Or Lou. I've heard a lot online about Obama working closely with Lou Sipher.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
how often do you see people stopping to care/resist/speak up at the exact moment you see someone getting arrested? Not after the fact, like, right in the moment. I know I sure don't see lots of people doing that, for many reasons, and I don't see lots of evidence that the majority of Americans freak out when they see someone get arrested right in front of them, for many reasons.
Yeeeah, I know people who tried to stop an arrest and police brutality that was happening in front of them. They were beaten bloody and got felony charges for assaulting a police officer (and of course resisting arrest.) There are very good reasons why people don't intervene and they have everything to do with saving their own skin.
Criminal justice reform is one of my big issues. I know how fucked the system is. But acting like people could or should be intervening in arrests seems really disingenuous to me. In the system we currently have all that does is add more bodies to the jails.
posted by threeturtles at 12:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeeeah, I know people who tried to stop an arrest and police brutality that was happening in front of them. They were beaten bloody and got felony charges for assaulting a police officer (and of course resisting arrest.) There are very good reasons why people don't intervene and they have everything to do with saving their own skin.
Criminal justice reform is one of my big issues. I know how fucked the system is. But acting like people could or should be intervening in arrests seems really disingenuous to me. In the system we currently have all that does is add more bodies to the jails.
posted by threeturtles at 12:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Fw: FWD: Fwd: The REAL problem with the Holocaust"Holy crap! I'm the first to admit that I live in a largely liberal bubble—I wonder if it's because I divested of people who would say those kinds of things to me, long ago? Because my response to the person who forwarded such a thing to me is going to be pretty damn close to DON'T EVER SEND ME THIS KIND OF SHIT (OR ANYTHING) AGAIN I WILL FUCKING FIGHT YOU.
I mean, who has the gall to think they can get away with that kind of crap in everyday conversation with their friends, relatives, acquaintances? It makes my blood boil just reading about it.
posted by Brak at 12:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
CNBC: Donald Trump's colossal error on jobs during his press conference
It's spelled "l-i-e" in my dictionary
posted by thelonius at 12:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's spelled "l-i-e" in my dictionary
posted by thelonius at 12:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Man this moves fast. BBC: CIA sources confirm claim is not just incident in Moscow but also one in St Petersburg, also videoed. I read that to mean they confirm there is a claim not that they confirm the claim.
posted by scalefree at 12:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 12:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering if "you're fired" at end of news conference is a T. Mirror reflection toward impeachment.
posted by rabidsegue at 12:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rabidsegue at 12:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Man this moves fast. BBC: CIA sources confirm claim is not just incident in Moscow but also one in St Petersburg, also videoed. I read that to mean they confirm there is a claim not that they confirm the claim.
HOW MANY PEE SHOWS DOES ONE MAN NEED
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:26 PM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
HOW MANY PEE SHOWS DOES ONE MAN NEED
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:26 PM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
I can confirm that there is a confirmation of a claim.
posted by ian1977 at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
What are all these rejected Tom Clancy-ass names
I'm not sure that Tom Clancy in his wildest imagining could not have given us a techno-thriller like this without it being deemed "too implausible".
posted by nubs at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure that Tom Clancy in his wildest imagining could not have given us a techno-thriller like this without it being deemed "too implausible".
posted by nubs at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Holy shit, that presser today was insane:
Donald trump slaps Vince MacMahon in live press conference unseen footages ......
posted by My Dad at 12:29 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Donald trump slaps Vince MacMahon in live press conference unseen footages ......
posted by My Dad at 12:29 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
DAMNIT GRANDMA.
Yeah, I get it. So frustrating though.
The other answer is that I'm just fascinated to see these things that are apparently sincerely held beliefs. I've learned so much!
That's a temperament that I wish I shared, truly. Alas, I don't have the patience.
posted by Brak at 12:36 PM on January 11, 2017
Yeah, I get it. So frustrating though.
The other answer is that I'm just fascinated to see these things that are apparently sincerely held beliefs. I've learned so much!
That's a temperament that I wish I shared, truly. Alas, I don't have the patience.
posted by Brak at 12:36 PM on January 11, 2017
HOW MANY PEE SHOWS DOES ONE MAN NEED
Pee on the future president-elect of the United States once, shame on you...
posted by Behemoth at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pee on the future president-elect of the United States once, shame on you...
posted by Behemoth at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
HOW MANY PEE SHOWS DOES ONE MAN NEED
THE ANSWER COMRADE
IS FLOWIN' ON HIS HEAD
THE ANSWER IS
FLOWIN' ON HIS HEAD
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
THE ANSWER COMRADE
IS FLOWIN' ON HIS HEAD
THE ANSWER IS
FLOWIN' ON HIS HEAD
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Apparently My Right Wing Dad (a repository of terrible email forwards from the relatives you wish you didn't have) is still updating. I learned something today.
posted by giraffe at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by giraffe at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
this is a little too much like a plant manager briefing - the guy stands up there - says what he wants to say - answers questions as little as possible and lets everyone else working for him do most of the interaction
that's what it looks like when you run government like a business
I hope that, despite the Republicans and the media conveniently forgetting the terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad George W. Bush presidency, the impending disaster of the Trump Administration finally makes "run government like a business*" lose all credibility.
*Translation: Do what the CEO wants or else. Which is a terrible fit for a system of checks and balances, not that the supine political press ever notices.
posted by Gelatin at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
that's what it looks like when you run government like a business
I hope that, despite the Republicans and the media conveniently forgetting the terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad George W. Bush presidency, the impending disaster of the Trump Administration finally makes "run government like a business*" lose all credibility.
*Translation: Do what the CEO wants or else. Which is a terrible fit for a system of checks and balances, not that the supine political press ever notices.
posted by Gelatin at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I watched P-beams glitter in the dark near the Obama Bed. All those moments will be lost in time...like piss in rain. Sad!
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
One show is a Golden Shower.
Two shows is - I don't know - a Golden Storm Front?
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Two shows is - I don't know - a Golden Storm Front?
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
MetaFilter: a bunch of random non-sequesters that people keep posting
posted by Gelatin at 12:42 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by Gelatin at 12:42 PM on January 11, 2017
Hey! They're not random!
posted by StrawberryPie at 12:43 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by StrawberryPie at 12:43 PM on January 11, 2017
Because nothing says "family values" more than having hookers pee in your predecessor's bed out of pure spite.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Man this moves fast. BBC: CIA sources confirm claim is not just incident in Moscow but also one in St Petersburg, also videoed. I read that to mean they confirm there is a claim not that they confirm the claim.
Trump on phone to Putin: You said 'What happens in Stalingrad, stays in Stalingrad', so what the fuck man!?
posted by PenDevil at 12:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump on phone to Putin: You said 'What happens in Stalingrad, stays in Stalingrad', so what the fuck man!?
posted by PenDevil at 12:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
PEOTUS: Piss enthusiast of these youuuuunited states
posted by Existential Dread at 12:44 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Existential Dread at 12:44 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not an expert, but is it really a golden shower if they pee on the bed?
posted by diogenes at 12:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 12:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump is a fascist. Things are very fucked up. Eventually there could be widespread support for fascist actions, sure, in the right contexts and if the regime does it skillfully. But to assume that about your neighbors now is inappropriate and irresponsible and just goddamned wrong.
#notallneighbors.
Please. I, as an immigrant, with a much prescribed set of rights relative to you, think you need to check yourself. Americans routinely throw all kind of people under buses without blinking.
How many of you have protested the deportations of immigrants for having THC positive blood tests? Traffic violations? Mere police suspicion? (Those are all currently legal justifications for deportation.)
Beuller?
Beuller?
That's who you are in the good times. Your blinds are already closed. I'd be a fool to count on you opening them when things get worse.
posted by srboisvert at 12:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
#notallneighbors.
Please. I, as an immigrant, with a much prescribed set of rights relative to you, think you need to check yourself. Americans routinely throw all kind of people under buses without blinking.
How many of you have protested the deportations of immigrants for having THC positive blood tests? Traffic violations? Mere police suspicion? (Those are all currently legal justifications for deportation.)
Beuller?
Beuller?
That's who you are in the good times. Your blinds are already closed. I'd be a fool to count on you opening them when things get worse.
posted by srboisvert at 12:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
US intelligence officials bristle at Trump's false accusation of dossier leak The IC is getting reiled up.
House Intel Committee voted to allow ALL House members access to classified hacking report, briefing by CIA, FBI, DNI, NSA chiefs on Friday Dramatically expands the pool of potential leakers for the classified details behind the report
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
House Intel Committee voted to allow ALL House members access to classified hacking report, briefing by CIA, FBI, DNI, NSA chiefs on Friday Dramatically expands the pool of potential leakers for the classified details behind the report
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
House Intel Committee voted to allow ALL House members access to classified hacking report, briefing by CIA, FBI, DNI, NSA chiefs on Friday Dramatically expands the pool of potential leakers for the classified details behind the report
So on Friday, look out for conflicting reports, one saying that Russia has implanted a mind-control chip in Trump's head, while another says that Russia does not exist and has never existed and therefore can't be responsible for anything.
posted by zachlipton at 12:53 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
So on Friday, look out for conflicting reports, one saying that Russia has implanted a mind-control chip in Trump's head, while another says that Russia does not exist and has never existed and therefore can't be responsible for anything.
posted by zachlipton at 12:53 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
"In those rooms, you have cameras in the strangest places"
Amongst the pile of WTFness going on today is this gem. Did trumpski just admit that his hotel rooms are wired for video? Is he illegally recording people?
Is this why he almost never stays at hotels but instead flies back to his lair in NY? Is he projecting again? He records people at his hotels therefore other hotels must also?
posted by futz at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
Amongst the pile of WTFness going on today is this gem. Did trumpski just admit that his hotel rooms are wired for video? Is he illegally recording people?
Is this why he almost never stays at hotels but instead flies back to his lair in NY? Is he projecting again? He records people at his hotels therefore other hotels must also?
posted by futz at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
how often do you see people stopping to care/resist/speak up at the exact moment you see someone getting arrested? Not after the fact, like, right in the moment.
I think this takes A and goes straight to Z without stopping in the middle.
Right now, most people who see someone getting arrested walk on by without asking questions. This happens because in general, they largely trust the police. They may think that someone is getting a harsher sentence or treatment than they would otherwise, but they generally believe the police arrest only people who commit crimes. The reason for their lack of intervention is not that they don't care about justice, but rather that they think the arrests are probably just.
If Trump compromised the police, Homeland security, the FBI, or another apparatus of the state, such that most people believe that most of the arrests made were invalid and unjust, I do think you would see a lot more resistance.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think this takes A and goes straight to Z without stopping in the middle.
Right now, most people who see someone getting arrested walk on by without asking questions. This happens because in general, they largely trust the police. They may think that someone is getting a harsher sentence or treatment than they would otherwise, but they generally believe the police arrest only people who commit crimes. The reason for their lack of intervention is not that they don't care about justice, but rather that they think the arrests are probably just.
If Trump compromised the police, Homeland security, the FBI, or another apparatus of the state, such that most people believe that most of the arrests made were invalid and unjust, I do think you would see a lot more resistance.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
We have known all along that Trump is a fucking moronic buffoon, but man, the juxtaposition of Tillerson's comportment and discourse at his hearing with that ludicrous presser is just stunning. I mean, I hate Tillerson and his views and company, but he's exactly as smart, well-spoken, serious, and "leaderlike" as you'd expect the average CEO of a global conglomerate to be.
How bizarre must it be for this guy to envision himself "serving" and working "for" a gross idjit like Comrade Mocha* (assuming he doesn't see himself as running the international part of the show, which he probably does).
*Russian for "urine." Think of all the festive Starbucks possibilities!
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
How bizarre must it be for this guy to envision himself "serving" and working "for" a gross idjit like Comrade Mocha* (assuming he doesn't see himself as running the international part of the show, which he probably does).
*Russian for "urine." Think of all the festive Starbucks possibilities!
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
How many of you have protested the deportations of immigrants for having THC positive blood tests? Traffic violations? Mere police suspicion? (Those are all currently legal justifications for deportation.)
I have. And by that I mean, I have gone to a few protests against deportations over the years and made a few phonecalls, not that I am a giant hero. Some good came out of some of those campaigns but for the most part deportations proceeded apace. Some people I know basically work on immigrants' rights issues nonstop. Of course, that means that they _don't_ work on, say, reproductive rights non-stop, because you can care about many things at once but there are only 24 hours in a day.
It's one of those things where even when you're doing something it feels like you're doing nothing because the system is so powerful.
I guess the one thing that is a real take-away in all of this is that if _everyone_ who cares about this issue donates to immigrants' rights groups, makes some phonecalls and goes to protests if there are any, then that would probably be very helpful. If you don't want to see people detained and deported, there are small ways to plug into these campaigns that can be meaningful.
It's not the same as stopping deportations and detentions. It feels a lot like having your blinds closed, because frankly nothing but non-stop non-compromise general-strike level activism is going to stop this stuff in the short term. But it's better than nothing.
Which reminds me that I need to be more active. I have felt so flattened and defeated these past six months or so that I've hardly done anything at all except the occasional protest or phonecall.
posted by Frowner at 12:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I have. And by that I mean, I have gone to a few protests against deportations over the years and made a few phonecalls, not that I am a giant hero. Some good came out of some of those campaigns but for the most part deportations proceeded apace. Some people I know basically work on immigrants' rights issues nonstop. Of course, that means that they _don't_ work on, say, reproductive rights non-stop, because you can care about many things at once but there are only 24 hours in a day.
It's one of those things where even when you're doing something it feels like you're doing nothing because the system is so powerful.
I guess the one thing that is a real take-away in all of this is that if _everyone_ who cares about this issue donates to immigrants' rights groups, makes some phonecalls and goes to protests if there are any, then that would probably be very helpful. If you don't want to see people detained and deported, there are small ways to plug into these campaigns that can be meaningful.
It's not the same as stopping deportations and detentions. It feels a lot like having your blinds closed, because frankly nothing but non-stop non-compromise general-strike level activism is going to stop this stuff in the short term. But it's better than nothing.
Which reminds me that I need to be more active. I have felt so flattened and defeated these past six months or so that I've hardly done anything at all except the occasional protest or phonecall.
posted by Frowner at 12:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I have a theory here that might just explain everything. In the original Ghostbusters the evil Sumerian God Gozer gave our heros the choice to choose the form of the creature sent to destroy the world.
The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is summoned because Ray tried to "think of the most harmless thing", and also "something that could never possibly destroy us". Dan Ackroyd said in an interview that he conceived of the character to demonstrate the following: something that "seems harmless and puffy and cute—but given the right circumstances, everything can be turned black and become evil".
Donald Trump = the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. He is the Id of Capitalist America, an unrestrained, instinctual monster who has been set forth upon the world by the 63 million Americans who voted for him. It feels like all we can do is stand there and marvel at the monumental absurdity that we are witnessing and feel powerless to stop. He is simultaneously laughable and horrible.
The ultimate problem is there is noone to call . . .
posted by jeremias at 1:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is summoned because Ray tried to "think of the most harmless thing", and also "something that could never possibly destroy us". Dan Ackroyd said in an interview that he conceived of the character to demonstrate the following: something that "seems harmless and puffy and cute—but given the right circumstances, everything can be turned black and become evil".
Donald Trump = the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. He is the Id of Capitalist America, an unrestrained, instinctual monster who has been set forth upon the world by the 63 million Americans who voted for him. It feels like all we can do is stand there and marvel at the monumental absurdity that we are witnessing and feel powerless to stop. He is simultaneously laughable and horrible.
The ultimate problem is there is noone to call . . .
posted by jeremias at 1:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The man has certainly punched a hole through the fabric of reality greater than any other (putative) human being in my lifetime.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Once you're talking "buses" you're talking "armed military people taking away other people" and so no, I don't expect my polite neighbor next door to run in front of machine guns for me. People are afraid to die, which is why you need guns to make them do things or stand back. I wouldn't actually blame a stranger for not dying for me. I would blame the government that sent the guys with the guns, though. Or someone who turned me in, supposing I ever knew that's what happened.
If you're at the guns-and-buses stage any resistance will have to be a combination of luck (you have an opportunity), courage (you are willing to take the risk) and cleverness (you get around the system designed to keep you from interfering).
In short, the most my neighbors could do, if they knew something might happen to me, would probably be taking my kid somewhere safe/hiding him, pretending they didn't see me run off in the night, etc. And I would be incredibly grateful for that, but again, unsurprised if it didn't happen, given the danger to themselves if they were found out.
This is a fucking grim discussion though and I'm unlikely to be targeted in this way anytime soon so at some point it starts to feel iffy to keep speculating. We don't live in that situation yet and I'm not ready to just lay down and wait for it.
posted by emjaybee at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
If you're at the guns-and-buses stage any resistance will have to be a combination of luck (you have an opportunity), courage (you are willing to take the risk) and cleverness (you get around the system designed to keep you from interfering).
In short, the most my neighbors could do, if they knew something might happen to me, would probably be taking my kid somewhere safe/hiding him, pretending they didn't see me run off in the night, etc. And I would be incredibly grateful for that, but again, unsurprised if it didn't happen, given the danger to themselves if they were found out.
This is a fucking grim discussion though and I'm unlikely to be targeted in this way anytime soon so at some point it starts to feel iffy to keep speculating. We don't live in that situation yet and I'm not ready to just lay down and wait for it.
posted by emjaybee at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Since this keeps coming up again (and again and again), the GOP is not going to impeach Trump. A good part of Trump's voters are the base of the Republican party - the people that come out for primaries and caucuses and who donate their money and time to get Republicans elected. If the Congressional GOP tries to impeach him they will be primaried from their right. As long as Trump lets them cut taxes and destroy the New Deal by doing so they will let Trump do whatever he wants. If we're going to stop Trump we can't rely on the GOP or Never Trumpers to save us, no matter how much we like McMullin.
posted by longdaysjourney at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Burning and burning in the widening bile
The falcon cannot hear the catheter;
Things fall apart; the bladder cannot hold;
Mere anarchpee is loosed upon the world,
The yellow-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all micturation, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensipee.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
The falcon cannot hear the catheter;
Things fall apart; the bladder cannot hold;
Mere anarchpee is loosed upon the world,
The yellow-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all micturation, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensipee.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hell, even the BBC fails that test -- they just put in the headline "Trump Hands Over Business Empire to Sons", which is not what happened. It's just what he said he would do.
It isn't even true that Trump's scheme of licensing his own name is a "business empire," but I bet he likes to see that phrase in print.
posted by Gelatin at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2017
It isn't even true that Trump's scheme of licensing his own name is a "business empire," but I bet he likes to see that phrase in print.
posted by Gelatin at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2017
futz: Is this why he almost never stays at hotels but instead flies back to his lair in NY? Is he projecting again? He records people at his hotels therefore other hotels must also?
There were anonymous claims by former Mar A Lago employees that he had/has a phone console in his room that can connect to every other phone in the resort and he used it for easedropping.
posted by bluecore at 1:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
There were anonymous claims by former Mar A Lago employees that he had/has a phone console in his room that can connect to every other phone in the resort and he used it for easedropping.
posted by bluecore at 1:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Like a dog that returns to his vomit, this president-elect just can’t help himself.
posted by My Dad at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Like a dog that returns to his vomit, this president-elect just can’t help himself.
Holy shit, that line. Savage. And...
Holy shit, that line. Savage. And...
Yes, Mr President-elect. The intelligence reports are indeed calling you an asset in the context of Russia. You may keep using that word but, as in the Princess Bride, I do not think it means what you think it means.posted by Existential Dread at 1:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Donald Trump = the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.... The ultimate problem is there is noone to call
[crossing-the-streams joke goes here]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:21 PM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
[crossing-the-streams joke goes here]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:21 PM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Total proteinic reversal.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
This guy is my literal neighbor. He is 100 percent ready to send people to camps. Trust me. I am not assuming.
Did I mention rewatching part of Schindler's List one day and tallying up how many of my family would probably have been SS?
posted by NorthernLite at 1:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Did I mention rewatching part of Schindler's List one day and tallying up how many of my family would probably have been SS?
posted by NorthernLite at 1:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
who would have guessed that the real JCPL to keep an eye on was Jim Comey/Piss Leaks
posted by jason_steakums at 1:29 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 1:29 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
drezdn: So no one was allowed to take the papers that Trump had stacked next to him?
Followup by Hunter Walker, National Correspondent @YahooNews:
I asked to look at some of the documents that were piled on the table but I was told I could not because they are "company documents"
posted by bluecore at 1:33 PM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Followup by Hunter Walker, National Correspondent @YahooNews:
I asked to look at some of the documents that were piled on the table but I was told I could not because they are "company documents"
posted by bluecore at 1:33 PM on January 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Tillerson won't rule out Muslim registry
He was also asked about human rights violations (such as the indiscriminate murder of suspected drug dealers in the Philippines) and refused to say that whether he believed that they were HR violations.
His answer for everything that I saw was that he needed more information AND when he was given more information and sources he said he still needed to see the information with his own eyes. What a dumbfuck. These people are dangerous.
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
He was also asked about human rights violations (such as the indiscriminate murder of suspected drug dealers in the Philippines) and refused to say that whether he believed that they were HR violations.
His answer for everything that I saw was that he needed more information AND when he was given more information and sources he said he still needed to see the information with his own eyes. What a dumbfuck. These people are dangerous.
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Come come now, urine jokes are so so January 10th. Ages ago, really.
posted by My Dad at 1:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by My Dad at 1:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
But, wait...
My bizarre exchange with the President-elect. I didn't expect his principal defence to be that he's a germophobe.
posted by My Dad at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2017
My bizarre exchange with the President-elect. I didn't expect his principal defence to be that he's a germophobe.
posted by My Dad at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2017
ureally
posted by saturday_morning at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've decided not to pass on any more pee related stories (or dossier related stories) until there's better confirmation of them. @President does enough venal, stupid and disgusting stuff on the record. I'm going to hold him (and his nominees and the current Republican gobshites) accountable for the stuff we can prove they're doing/have done.
I'll still make pee jokes, though and I'll be happy to share out more espionage information one its a little more confirmed.
These are strange times.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll still make pee jokes, though and I'll be happy to share out more espionage information one its a little more confirmed.
These are strange times.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now, I really don' t expect anything of Trump in coherency. I doubt he's a mastermind. I'm fully behind the idea that he's a useful idiot. Having said that, does anyone else feel like perhaps a Muslim registry is more about setting a precedent for the sort of oligarchs who might win this long-form coup? Even if it's limited in scope, and hampered by protest or legislation, it would make a great project to throw back to when you want to make "enemy of the state" registries in general. It's all about getting that foot in the door, and pioneering the techniques to perform such a project on a larger scale.
posted by constantinescharity at 1:44 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by constantinescharity at 1:44 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jeff Flake is more worried about a Trumpist primary opponent than winning his general election
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:56 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:56 PM on January 11, 2017
If Trump compromised the police, Homeland security, the FBI, or another apparatus of the state, such that most people believe that most of the arrests made were invalid and unjust, I do think you would see a lot more resistance.
No, because
Seriously, this is how it goes down and it takes a surprisingly short time. But it might not even take that long in the USA, because you already have the mechanisms to make people disappear quickly and efficiently. I understand the US Border Patrol presently extends to 100 miles from the actual border; that can be extended and why not, which means that it will be unsafe for most targets to travel long distances, even by road. It's now acceptable for jails to be in isolated places, a long way from people's homes; internees' former neighbours aren't even going to contemplate travelling to check up on them. If they do, of course, they'll be travelling through many separate jurisdictions and consequently subject to all sorts of varying laws. Who knows what breaches a troublemaker may commit.
These are the laws that you have and are already in place. If half of the USA could believe that Barack Obama was born overseas, they'll be willing to accept that any random person was born overseas and that they can be held until they prove otherwise. Or that their metadata shows that they were associating with terrorists. You don't need to round people up and send them to ghettos; you just chip-chip-chip away at the fundamentals of their life until the consolidation and relocation comes almost as a relief.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
No, because
- they would have been conditioned to think that the arrests aren't that unjust;
- they would have been assured that the consequences of arrest aren't that serious; and
- to the extent they disbelieve the justifiability and inconsequential nature of the arrests, they'll be afraid of the same thing happening to them.
Seriously, this is how it goes down and it takes a surprisingly short time. But it might not even take that long in the USA, because you already have the mechanisms to make people disappear quickly and efficiently. I understand the US Border Patrol presently extends to 100 miles from the actual border; that can be extended and why not, which means that it will be unsafe for most targets to travel long distances, even by road. It's now acceptable for jails to be in isolated places, a long way from people's homes; internees' former neighbours aren't even going to contemplate travelling to check up on them. If they do, of course, they'll be travelling through many separate jurisdictions and consequently subject to all sorts of varying laws. Who knows what breaches a troublemaker may commit.
These are the laws that you have and are already in place. If half of the USA could believe that Barack Obama was born overseas, they'll be willing to accept that any random person was born overseas and that they can be held until they prove otherwise. Or that their metadata shows that they were associating with terrorists. You don't need to round people up and send them to ghettos; you just chip-chip-chip away at the fundamentals of their life until the consolidation and relocation comes almost as a relief.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
Everyone is disappointed. No one is surprised.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 2:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Everyone is disappointed. No one is surprised.
But are we even disappointed, really? Or just pissed off?
sorry
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
But are we even disappointed, really? Or just pissed off?
sorry
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
If buzzFeed hasn'tt replaced their mast head with "A Flaming Pile of Garbage" within the hour I'll be very disappointed.
Not the masthead. I think this is better. They did it pretty quickly too.
Buzzfeed Failing Pile of Garbage shop
posted by Jalliah at 2:30 PM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Right. Say it's 20%. Say the regime is skillful enough to double (that so far no reason to think they are) and STILL over 60% of the country would be opposed to them. They won't necessarily help you, but that's a far fucking cry from "if they don't know now that Trump is a capital-F Fascist then they will think you must have done something wrong when they disappear you."
Dude, every time I see you in these threads you're always so optimistic it makes me want to move to whatever the hell utopia you stay in.
posted by winna at 2:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dude, every time I see you in these threads you're always so optimistic it makes me want to move to whatever the hell utopia you stay in.
posted by winna at 2:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
What a dumbfuck. These people are dangerous.
The second part is true, partially because the first part is not. He's not a dumbfuck, he's a greedy bastard. He's coming to loot the USA and enrich his cabal, more than they ever could've imagined.
posted by cell divide at 2:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The second part is true, partially because the first part is not. He's not a dumbfuck, he's a greedy bastard. He's coming to loot the USA and enrich his cabal, more than they ever could've imagined.
posted by cell divide at 2:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Utopia, as designed, would actually be a really, really horrid place to live. Like, Trump would have thought it was a little over the top in human rights violations.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I just want to say that I don't think the safety pins are an empty gesture and I - as a visibly queer person - have been kind of frustrated by all the "you phony safety-pin wearers" stuff going around. I'm not saying that I look at someone wearing a safety pin and think "here is someone who will totally have my back", but I do look at them and think "here is someone around whom I don't have to pretend to be "neutral" about politics or to like Trump supporters, or to pretend that I think everything is going to be just fiiiiiine in my life because it makes centrists and conservatives uncomfortable to be confronted with real people who are angry". It's a relief to me to look at people and be able to see that not all of them voted against the very existence of people like me, and that not all of them are homophobes, etc.
I want to second this, also as a visible queer person. And as a person who is angry and upset and burning the candle at both ends and in the middle besides. I am so, so tired and scared right now, and I have the benefit of knowing that my city did its damnedest to stand behind people like me... but I have a state arrayed against me and now a federal government and literally every time I put on a different facet of my identity I feel like someone is targeting that thing, and I am so so so tired and fraying at the edges. Seeing other people at least saying "I'm sad too" or "things are not fine" makes me think "oh. allies. I don't have to push everything all on my own. Okay." It makes me feel like it's not just me.
So you know. Wear your damn pin, if you're okay with it. I wear one, too--got a great big one on my bag, to remind me about it, to signal to myself as much as anyone else. It's not the end of the things I'm doing any more than the hats I'm knitting area. It's a beginning and a signal, to give myself (and maybe the people around me) a bit of heart. So.
yeah. thanks.
posted by sciatrix at 2:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
I want to second this, also as a visible queer person. And as a person who is angry and upset and burning the candle at both ends and in the middle besides. I am so, so tired and scared right now, and I have the benefit of knowing that my city did its damnedest to stand behind people like me... but I have a state arrayed against me and now a federal government and literally every time I put on a different facet of my identity I feel like someone is targeting that thing, and I am so so so tired and fraying at the edges. Seeing other people at least saying "I'm sad too" or "things are not fine" makes me think "oh. allies. I don't have to push everything all on my own. Okay." It makes me feel like it's not just me.
So you know. Wear your damn pin, if you're okay with it. I wear one, too--got a great big one on my bag, to remind me about it, to signal to myself as much as anyone else. It's not the end of the things I'm doing any more than the hats I'm knitting area. It's a beginning and a signal, to give myself (and maybe the people around me) a bit of heart. So.
yeah. thanks.
posted by sciatrix at 2:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
Dude, every time I see you in these threads you're always so optimistic it makes me want to move to whatever the hell utopia you stay in.
For a real trip, try visiting old posts and seeing how optimistic we ALL were.
posted by corb at 2:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
For a real trip, try visiting old posts and seeing how optimistic we ALL were.
posted by corb at 2:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
For a real trip, try visiting old posts and seeing how optimistic we ALL were.
Break my heart, corb, why don't ya!
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Break my heart, corb, why don't ya!
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
And also....
Dude, every time I see you in these threads you're always so optimistic it makes me want to move to whatever the hell utopia you stay in.
Way I see it--and I appreciate Rust's comments, for one--optimism gives us the strength to move, as an antidote against paralyzing despair. I think the only way we're going to stop this getting to the point of locked vans and shit is by mobilizing, hard, and by shoving public opinion in the direction of resistance. So affirming that there's a path, that even in dark-ass, terrifying times like this there is hope and reaching out to each other and talking to people isn't worthless....
Well, goddammit, I just want to fucking lie down and die a lot of the time, but I can't leave here until I finish this fucking PhD, so I need to scrape out the energy to do something about these pricks and stand up to them somehow. Doomsaying isn't doing it. Reminding myself that I might, slowly, get somewhere--or, hell, that I might fucking convince someone else to get up and start telling their neighbors that we are in some bad shit--that's the only thing keeping me running right now, and I am running on motherfucking fumes.
So yeah. That's a thing. Fuck.
posted by sciatrix at 2:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Dude, every time I see you in these threads you're always so optimistic it makes me want to move to whatever the hell utopia you stay in.
Way I see it--and I appreciate Rust's comments, for one--optimism gives us the strength to move, as an antidote against paralyzing despair. I think the only way we're going to stop this getting to the point of locked vans and shit is by mobilizing, hard, and by shoving public opinion in the direction of resistance. So affirming that there's a path, that even in dark-ass, terrifying times like this there is hope and reaching out to each other and talking to people isn't worthless....
Well, goddammit, I just want to fucking lie down and die a lot of the time, but I can't leave here until I finish this fucking PhD, so I need to scrape out the energy to do something about these pricks and stand up to them somehow. Doomsaying isn't doing it. Reminding myself that I might, slowly, get somewhere--or, hell, that I might fucking convince someone else to get up and start telling their neighbors that we are in some bad shit--that's the only thing keeping me running right now, and I am running on motherfucking fumes.
So yeah. That's a thing. Fuck.
posted by sciatrix at 2:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
optimism gives us the strength to move
My privilege definitely makes it easier for me to be (cautiously) optimistic, but I am optimistic too. We've seen that public opinion is against these fuckers, and it's having an impact. The outcry against the ethics rules changes last week forcing the House Rs to back down, the delaying and moving of hearings for Devos and other picks, and more willingness to engage in protest and in government from all sorts of people, including myself. There's more outcry against this joker than there ever was against Bush the Lesser. There's a lot of bad, but there's a lot potential too.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:53 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
My privilege definitely makes it easier for me to be (cautiously) optimistic, but I am optimistic too. We've seen that public opinion is against these fuckers, and it's having an impact. The outcry against the ethics rules changes last week forcing the House Rs to back down, the delaying and moving of hearings for Devos and other picks, and more willingness to engage in protest and in government from all sorts of people, including myself. There's more outcry against this joker than there ever was against Bush the Lesser. There's a lot of bad, but there's a lot potential too.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:53 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
So you heard all the clapping & cheering for some of the points Trump made? Staffers paid to be there & clap. Yep, he brought a cheering section to a press conference.
posted by scalefree at 2:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 2:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
As one does.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
A.J. Benza quoting Trump on Howard Stern in 2001: "I was just in Russia. The girls have no morals. You gotta get out there."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:59 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:59 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've been trying to work up a new thread (because this one is getting long) but I'll be honest I have a bit of a potty brain and can't seem to do it seriously or without breaking down at the sheer absurdity of it all and staring blankly at the screen.
Maybe someone else can give it a shot.
posted by Jalliah at 2:59 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, Mr President-elect. The intelligence reports are indeed calling you an asset in the context of Russia. You may keep using that word but, as in the Princess Bride, I do not think it means what you think it means.
That was another thing that broke my brain about this press conference, the way Trump actually benefits from his total lack of self-awareness. "Do you honestly believe that Hillary would be tougher on Putin than me?" I mean... yes? That was the entire PREMISE of all the disputes about Russia during the general election - that Hillary was a Russia hawk, with all the associated pluses and minuses, and Donald thought we should "do a deal" with them. The whole "no puppet" thing makes no sense absent that premise.
Anyone with even a modicum of logical coherence or factual consistency from one day to the next would at least smirk when trying to sell that kind of reversal - even Ted Cruz would telegraph "yeah, I'm about to sell you some bullshit right here." But Trump doesn't even remember, or perhaps never understood in the first place, that he ran on a "soft on Russia" position in the election. So he can honestly try to sell himself as "tough" on Russia now, and a certain part of the population will buy it just because he's confident. It's amazing.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
That was another thing that broke my brain about this press conference, the way Trump actually benefits from his total lack of self-awareness. "Do you honestly believe that Hillary would be tougher on Putin than me?" I mean... yes? That was the entire PREMISE of all the disputes about Russia during the general election - that Hillary was a Russia hawk, with all the associated pluses and minuses, and Donald thought we should "do a deal" with them. The whole "no puppet" thing makes no sense absent that premise.
Anyone with even a modicum of logical coherence or factual consistency from one day to the next would at least smirk when trying to sell that kind of reversal - even Ted Cruz would telegraph "yeah, I'm about to sell you some bullshit right here." But Trump doesn't even remember, or perhaps never understood in the first place, that he ran on a "soft on Russia" position in the election. So he can honestly try to sell himself as "tough" on Russia now, and a certain part of the population will buy it just because he's confident. It's amazing.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
"The girls have no morals."
That's an interesting way to say "are being trafficked as sex slaves."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
That's an interesting way to say "are being trafficked as sex slaves."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
We can dream. Obama should resign & make Biden President for the final week of the term.
posted by scalefree at 3:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 3:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Some warm takes on BuzzFeed:
Vanessa Gezari/CJR - BuzzFeed was right to publish Trump-Russia files (Nobody independently verified the stuff they published about Clinton, why demand the same standard now? If you can report based on an alleged hacked email, why can't you report based on a document claimed to have been presented by top intelligence agencies?)
Jack Shafer/Politico - The Coup Before the Inauguration ("Like BuzzFeed’s Smith, I believe the public has an interest in knowing what the much-disparaged elites have been gossiping about for months now")
Margaret Sullivan/WaPo - How BuzzFeed crossed the line in publishing salacious ‘dossier’ on Trump ("plunging down a slippery ethical slope from which there is no return. In an era when trust in the media is already in the gutter, this does absolutely nothing to help. It’s never been acceptable to publish rumor and innuendo.")
John Schindler/Observer (yes, Jared Kushner's paper) - Donald Trump Addresses Dossier’s Pedestrian Claims (speculates the memos are Russian provokatsiya ("provocation"): "This wouldn’t be the first time that Kremlin spies leaked secret information, partly true, to throw spies and journalists off the real trail. “It would be what I’d do,” explained a former KGB senior officer whom I’ve known for years.")
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Vanessa Gezari/CJR - BuzzFeed was right to publish Trump-Russia files (Nobody independently verified the stuff they published about Clinton, why demand the same standard now? If you can report based on an alleged hacked email, why can't you report based on a document claimed to have been presented by top intelligence agencies?)
Jack Shafer/Politico - The Coup Before the Inauguration ("Like BuzzFeed’s Smith, I believe the public has an interest in knowing what the much-disparaged elites have been gossiping about for months now")
Margaret Sullivan/WaPo - How BuzzFeed crossed the line in publishing salacious ‘dossier’ on Trump ("plunging down a slippery ethical slope from which there is no return. In an era when trust in the media is already in the gutter, this does absolutely nothing to help. It’s never been acceptable to publish rumor and innuendo.")
John Schindler/Observer (yes, Jared Kushner's paper) - Donald Trump Addresses Dossier’s Pedestrian Claims (speculates the memos are Russian provokatsiya ("provocation"): "This wouldn’t be the first time that Kremlin spies leaked secret information, partly true, to throw spies and journalists off the real trail. “It would be what I’d do,” explained a former KGB senior officer whom I’ve known for years.")
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe someone else can give it a shot.
Quoting somebody else:
I'm not pissing away my shot / Hey yo, I'm just like my country / I'm old, saggy and angry / And I'm not pissing away my shot
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Quoting somebody else:
I'm not pissing away my shot / Hey yo, I'm just like my country / I'm old, saggy and angry / And I'm not pissing away my shot
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The world was wide enough for компромат and pee
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:06 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
See this is why I'm useless right now. I purposely tried to make my comment not urinary tract related and look what happens.
posted by Jalliah at 3:09 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
So you heard all the clapping & cheering for some of the points Trump made? Staffers paid to be there & clap. Yep, he brought a cheering section to a press conference.
So was that them chanting "Trump" between the weird preshow music selections too, or was that a recording? The chanting sounded a lot stronger and unified (like a recording from the convention or something) than the weak applause during the press conference.
posted by Rykey at 3:10 PM on January 11, 2017
So was that them chanting "Trump" between the weird preshow music selections too, or was that a recording? The chanting sounded a lot stronger and unified (like a recording from the convention or something) than the weak applause during the press conference.
posted by Rykey at 3:10 PM on January 11, 2017
Metafilter, you disappoint.
There's a more appropriate musical to invoke at this moment - one that won three Tony awards, in fact.
SYNOPSIS: In a futuristic world, people must pay for the privilege to urinate.
"It's a Privilege to Pee".
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:11 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's a more appropriate musical to invoke at this moment - one that won three Tony awards, in fact.
SYNOPSIS: In a futuristic world, people must pay for the privilege to urinate.
"It's a Privilege to Pee".
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:11 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Guys I am in the process of passing a kidney stone so all this pee stuff is way less funny for me right now than it otherwise would be.
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
We've seen that public opinion is against these fuckers, and it's having an impact.
Absolutely. Thanks to public opinion, Trump has caved and has promised to put his businesses and holdings into a blind trust. Only his sons will know the true details. Yep, cautiously optimistic.
posted by My Dad at 3:16 PM on January 11, 2017
Absolutely. Thanks to public opinion, Trump has caved and has promised to put his businesses and holdings into a blind trust. Only his sons will know the true details. Yep, cautiously optimistic.
posted by My Dad at 3:16 PM on January 11, 2017
Inside The Alt-Right’s Campaign To Smear Trump Protesters As Anarchists
posted by zachlipton at 3:17 PM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
But, BuzzFeed News has learned, the “Rape Melania” sign was not the work of an anti-Trump protestor at all. Instead, according to sources, it was the brainchild of a group of Trump supporters led by Jack Posobiec, one of the organizers of the controversial Deploraball inauguration party and a prominent figure in the pro-Trump internet.Trump's Mirror even somehow applies to the Project Veritas videos somehow.
Furthermore, as shown by a series of Posobiec’s text messages obtained by BuzzFeed News and confirmed by a source who collaborated with Posobiec, the sign was the culmination of a disinformation campaign by Posobiec and others intended to paint the anti-Trump rallies as violent and out of control.
posted by zachlipton at 3:17 PM on January 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Just another Trump lie - gotta catch 'em all! Trump's lawyer likened his holdings to Ford's VP Nelson Rockefeller, said no one asked to see Rockefeller's tax returns. Wrong.
posted by Devonian at 3:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 3:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's not a lie if you say it with conviction.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, critical masses of people is the only way we're ever going to fucking survive this mess--and by we I mean the whole damn country and all the millions of people who live here. Getting people involved, meeting them where they are at, and not demanding perfection so much as motion. Critical masses of people saying and doing small things, in the little places they are at.
I keep looking around and panicking because there aren't enough people, it feels like there's only a few and what if we can't sway enough folks, what if people channel their dissatisfaction into becoming alienated (as Frowner points out upthread) instead of by throwing their shoulder into the game and pushing to make change happen, what if people who say they're with me decide they stop caring and let apathy win? But then, I don't properly remember the Bush years. I'm not old enough. And I sort of suspect that my whole generation--bear in mind that there's a small demographic birthrate spike that peaks right around the year of my birth, guys, in 1990, so there are a lot of us about my age--I suspect a lot of us are especially afraid, because for many liberal twenty-somethings this is the first time shit has gotten this bad while we are old enough to remember it, but we have spent the last eight years watching the GOP fuck us harder and harder and harder in Congress.
I am terrified, as much or more than anything else, by the probability of large scale apathy. And fuck, if the pessimism and exhaustion doesn't make the apathy of learned helplessness seem so fucking attractive right now. I was burned out on volunteering before this election went down; the break I was going to take is... no longer an option. So. Fuck. *face in hands* someone tell me this shit is worth it, because this is apparently the point at which I lose my energy and need to lean on someone else as I stagger on for a bit. Fuck.
posted by sciatrix at 3:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
I keep looking around and panicking because there aren't enough people, it feels like there's only a few and what if we can't sway enough folks, what if people channel their dissatisfaction into becoming alienated (as Frowner points out upthread) instead of by throwing their shoulder into the game and pushing to make change happen, what if people who say they're with me decide they stop caring and let apathy win? But then, I don't properly remember the Bush years. I'm not old enough. And I sort of suspect that my whole generation--bear in mind that there's a small demographic birthrate spike that peaks right around the year of my birth, guys, in 1990, so there are a lot of us about my age--I suspect a lot of us are especially afraid, because for many liberal twenty-somethings this is the first time shit has gotten this bad while we are old enough to remember it, but we have spent the last eight years watching the GOP fuck us harder and harder and harder in Congress.
I am terrified, as much or more than anything else, by the probability of large scale apathy. And fuck, if the pessimism and exhaustion doesn't make the apathy of learned helplessness seem so fucking attractive right now. I was burned out on volunteering before this election went down; the break I was going to take is... no longer an option. So. Fuck. *face in hands* someone tell me this shit is worth it, because this is apparently the point at which I lose my energy and need to lean on someone else as I stagger on for a bit. Fuck.
posted by sciatrix at 3:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
led by Jack Posobiec
But of course. The man is filth.
posted by holgate at 3:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
But of course. The man is filth.
posted by holgate at 3:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just watched Trump coming unhinged at CNN's Acosta and I'm speechless. We are so fucked.
posted by photoslob at 3:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 3:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Right. Say it's 20%. Say the regime is skillful enough to double (that so far no reason to think they are) and STILL over 60% of the country would be opposed to them. They won't necessarily help you, but that's a far fucking cry from "if they don't know now that Trump is a capital-F Fascist then they will think you must have done something wrong when they disappear you."
It should be noted at this point that, within living memory, large parts of the country operated a quasi-apartheid system. Many of the people in power grew up in those times, and have set up curriculum that taught that they weren't so bad. So it turns out, wierdly enough, that pretty much nobody white in the South did much to stand up for black communities a) when they were enslaved, b) when they were economically excluded, and c) when they were periodically lynched.
The reason even a and b were stopped wasn't because of a great movement within that forced it. It was because the South overplayed their hand and got into a military engagement...and even that took over a century to happen, and then Reconstruction got slapped down a bit, and then white people from those areas couldn't even bring themselves to have internally based political change that would allow the children of a local community to have the same standard or place of education. When swimming pools were desegregated they were privatised so they were still effectively white-only. That's still a thing right now, as are things like Ferguson and the widespread disparagement of Black Lives Matter.
I am less sanguine about the basis for a belief that people can uniformly rely on their neighbours, because they haven't been able to until now.
posted by jaduncan at 3:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
It should be noted at this point that, within living memory, large parts of the country operated a quasi-apartheid system. Many of the people in power grew up in those times, and have set up curriculum that taught that they weren't so bad. So it turns out, wierdly enough, that pretty much nobody white in the South did much to stand up for black communities a) when they were enslaved, b) when they were economically excluded, and c) when they were periodically lynched.
The reason even a and b were stopped wasn't because of a great movement within that forced it. It was because the South overplayed their hand and got into a military engagement...and even that took over a century to happen, and then Reconstruction got slapped down a bit, and then white people from those areas couldn't even bring themselves to have internally based political change that would allow the children of a local community to have the same standard or place of education. When swimming pools were desegregated they were privatised so they were still effectively white-only. That's still a thing right now, as are things like Ferguson and the widespread disparagement of Black Lives Matter.
I am less sanguine about the basis for a belief that people can uniformly rely on their neighbours, because they haven't been able to until now.
posted by jaduncan at 3:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
It is a lie if you say it with a conviction following.
posted by Devonian at 3:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 3:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump's Mirror even somehow applies to the Project Veritas videos somehow.
I just googled O'Keefe because I realized after those video releases I hadn't heard much about him.
Wonder what he's doing now?
Oh.
REVEALED: Activists catch James O’Keefe’s group bribing people to riot at Trump’s inauguration
though we haven’t heard much from right-wing activist James O’Keefe since his failed attempts to uncover voter fraud in Philadelphia last year, it seems he’s been keeping himself busy trying to bribe anti-Trump protesters to commit acts of violence at Trump’s inaugural ceremony.
However, O’Keefe’s plans to sow chaos at the inauguration on January 20 have been upended after he and his Project Veritas group fell victim to a counter-sting that the Huffington Post reports was carried out by The Undercurrent and Americans Take Action.
“The counter-sting… managed to surreptitiously record elements of O’Keefe’s network offering huge sums of money to progressive activists if they would disrupt the ceremony and ‘put a stop to the inauguration’ and the related proceedings to such a degree that donors to the clandestine effort would ‘turn on a TV and maybe not even see Trump,'” the Huffington Post writes. “To have riots blot out coverage of Trump, the donor offered ‘unlimited resources,’ including to shut down bridges into D.C.”
posted by Jalliah at 3:24 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
I just googled O'Keefe because I realized after those video releases I hadn't heard much about him.
Wonder what he's doing now?
Oh.
REVEALED: Activists catch James O’Keefe’s group bribing people to riot at Trump’s inauguration
though we haven’t heard much from right-wing activist James O’Keefe since his failed attempts to uncover voter fraud in Philadelphia last year, it seems he’s been keeping himself busy trying to bribe anti-Trump protesters to commit acts of violence at Trump’s inaugural ceremony.
However, O’Keefe’s plans to sow chaos at the inauguration on January 20 have been upended after he and his Project Veritas group fell victim to a counter-sting that the Huffington Post reports was carried out by The Undercurrent and Americans Take Action.
“The counter-sting… managed to surreptitiously record elements of O’Keefe’s network offering huge sums of money to progressive activists if they would disrupt the ceremony and ‘put a stop to the inauguration’ and the related proceedings to such a degree that donors to the clandestine effort would ‘turn on a TV and maybe not even see Trump,'” the Huffington Post writes. “To have riots blot out coverage of Trump, the donor offered ‘unlimited resources,’ including to shut down bridges into D.C.”
posted by Jalliah at 3:24 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Speaking of Melania, I wonder whether she's running out of evens... and ready to take Barron and leave the gilded cage. What's the consensus on whether it's Melania or Ivanka who holds the bible when Trump takes the oath of office?
posted by carmicha at 3:25 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 3:25 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
If I were a Neutral Evil spymaster with a late multi-class into tyrant, and the volatile, yet useful orange idiot I'd been fluffing up to beat the woman in a pantsuit I was really scared of somehow got elected, what would I do? Would I yank his chain by cooking up a lurid sex thing that only I could verify? Or would I really have actual proof? Post-factually, does it really matter? The damage is done to the idiot either way, and the shit we've been flinging for months don't stick to my corpse-like fingers.
posted by bonehead at 3:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bonehead at 3:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
O'Keefe sounds farther down the road to conspiracy for terrorism than were many of the stray half-wits who the FBI have suborned into getting arrested at meetings to get bomb parts or whatever, over the last 16 years.
posted by thelonius at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Apparently, Chris Edelson at The Hill thinks the remedy for all this bullshit should be new elections. The Hill. The fucking Hill published this.
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
posted by Talez at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
posted by Talez at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
I really wonder what it's like for Hillary right now.
posted by Brainy at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 3:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I really wonder what it's like for Hillary right now.
my best guess
posted by entropicamericana at 3:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
my best guess
posted by entropicamericana at 3:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
I really wonder what it's like for Hillary right now.
I hope she's on a beach, sipping on a Mai Tai and ignoring all of this. She did her time. She tried her best. This isn't on her.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
I hope she's on a beach, sipping on a Mai Tai and ignoring all of this. She did her time. She tried her best. This isn't on her.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
Speaking of Melania, I wonder whether she's running out of evens...
I assume that (a) they have a pre-nup that greatly favors Trump and (b) she's concerned about an inheritance for Barron, and anyway, if she had evens, they probably would've run out years ago. Donald Trump never tried to appear like anything but a chauvinist sex-maniac. Being sexually predatory is practically the most consistent feature of his character.
posted by dis_integration at 3:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I assume that (a) they have a pre-nup that greatly favors Trump and (b) she's concerned about an inheritance for Barron, and anyway, if she had evens, they probably would've run out years ago. Donald Trump never tried to appear like anything but a chauvinist sex-maniac. Being sexually predatory is practically the most consistent feature of his character.
posted by dis_integration at 3:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
NBC is reporting that lots of sources have come forward to say that trumpski was not briefed on the leaked Russian memo but that the 2 page memo was part of annex provided to him. I think I got that right?
If I did get that right, it was provided to him but not verbally or am I mangling what NBC just said on their evening news? I will look for more info of course but does anyone here have a clue? So much info has been dropped in the last 24 hours & my head is spinning.
posted by futz at 3:46 PM on January 11, 2017
If I did get that right, it was provided to him but not verbally or am I mangling what NBC just said on their evening news? I will look for more info of course but does anyone here have a clue? So much info has been dropped in the last 24 hours & my head is spinning.
posted by futz at 3:46 PM on January 11, 2017
He doesn't need the memo if he saw the live streams.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
Will the "coincidences" never end?
A law firm employed by Donald Trump to help prepare him for the White House won a ‘Russia Law Firm of the Year’ award last year.
posted by adamvasco at 3:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
A law firm employed by Donald Trump to help prepare him for the White House won a ‘Russia Law Firm of the Year’ award last year.
posted by adamvasco at 3:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Feinstein gets pacemaker, misses second day of Sessions hearings
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:56 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:56 PM on January 11, 2017
If I did get that right, it was provided to him but not verbally or am I mangling what NBC just said on their evening news? I will look for more info of course but does anyone here have a clue? So much info has been dropped in the last 24 hours & my head is spinning.
It is confusing. It looks NBC is reporting one thing but other news outlets like the BBC are AP are reporting information that would contradict what NBC is saying.
posted by Jalliah at 3:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just watched Trump coming unhinged at CNN's Acosta and I'm speechless. We are so fucked.
Here's the clip for folks catching up.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's the clip for folks catching up.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I hope Hillary is planning on arriving at the inauguration in beaded pantsuit with one bead for each of the 2.8 million votes she got over Donald.
Also she and Bill are wearing matching ushankas, drinking Stoli straight from the bottle, and spending the entire ceremony heckling him.
posted by asteria at 3:59 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Also she and Bill are wearing matching ushankas, drinking Stoli straight from the bottle, and spending the entire ceremony heckling him.
posted by asteria at 3:59 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
she and Bill are wearing matching ushankas, drinking Stoli straight from the bottle, and spend the entire ceremony heckling him.
There should be a Spies Like Us-themed imminient destruction party in a nearby Free Speech Zone™. A big papier-mâché ICBM and Soulfinger on repeat.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
There should be a Spies Like Us-themed imminient destruction party in a nearby Free Speech Zone™. A big papier-mâché ICBM and Soulfinger on repeat.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd think the old civil service trick - slipping the dynamite you don't want your minister to see on a couple of bits of paper buried at the end of a large pile of dull briefs - has got an excellent chance of working every time with Trump, only they'd only need to put it in the second paragraph of one sheet.
posted by Devonian at 4:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 4:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
sciatrix, yes this shit is worth it.
Do you really think there was no resistance movement during WWII?
Wikipedia.
There's no shortage of superegos and depressives and (very often I'm sure) active agents of evil who will tell you you can't help and/or you shouldn't try because you're a shitty person anyway and/or everyone else is shitty and always will be and/or if you don't immolate yourself in a public square you're just a hypocrite, and and and.
But they'll usually follow it up by telling you they're not saying it to make you feel guilty. This always helps enormously, I find. Because they're only trying to goad you into action. Which is hopeless, because everyone is shitty and you are shitty and there's no hope of achieving anything, even under the best of conditions. Get used to it. Change will not happen.
I'm sure a lot of it is probably well-meant, but it's no fucking HELP.
I mean literally this guy has members of his own government trying to discredit him before he takes office, he can't get anyone to perform at his inauguration, and he's just demonstrated his absolute unfitness for office to the entire world.
Does that mean that beating him is trivial? Of course not. If it were, we would never have gotten to this point.
But actually America got to this point because people misjudged the situation all the way through. First they didn't take him seriously as a candidate, and now he's getting misjudged the other way as being omnipotent and hermetically invulnerable. That's just not true.
posted by tel3path at 4:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Do you really think there was no resistance movement during WWII?
Wikipedia.
There's no shortage of superegos and depressives and (very often I'm sure) active agents of evil who will tell you you can't help and/or you shouldn't try because you're a shitty person anyway and/or everyone else is shitty and always will be and/or if you don't immolate yourself in a public square you're just a hypocrite, and and and.
But they'll usually follow it up by telling you they're not saying it to make you feel guilty. This always helps enormously, I find. Because they're only trying to goad you into action. Which is hopeless, because everyone is shitty and you are shitty and there's no hope of achieving anything, even under the best of conditions. Get used to it. Change will not happen.
I'm sure a lot of it is probably well-meant, but it's no fucking HELP.
I mean literally this guy has members of his own government trying to discredit him before he takes office, he can't get anyone to perform at his inauguration, and he's just demonstrated his absolute unfitness for office to the entire world.
Does that mean that beating him is trivial? Of course not. If it were, we would never have gotten to this point.
But actually America got to this point because people misjudged the situation all the way through. First they didn't take him seriously as a candidate, and now he's getting misjudged the other way as being omnipotent and hermetically invulnerable. That's just not true.
posted by tel3path at 4:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Listen just because Trump's lawyers won a Russian lawyering award doesn't mean Trump has any ties with Russia we need more evidence
posted by tel3path at 4:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 4:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Feinstein gets pacemaker, misses second day of Sessions hearings
Also: Congressman collapses in House cloakroom (newly sworn-in Rep. John Rutherford (R-Fla.)).
Not a good day on Congress. I hope everyone is ok.
posted by zachlipton at 4:06 PM on January 11, 2017
Also: Congressman collapses in House cloakroom (newly sworn-in Rep. John Rutherford (R-Fla.)).
Not a good day on Congress. I hope everyone is ok.
posted by zachlipton at 4:06 PM on January 11, 2017
Former MI6 officer Christopher Steele, who produced Donald Trump Russian dossier, 'terrified for his safety' and went to ground before name released
posted by Jalliah at 4:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Marco Rubio - Senate firebrand.
What the fuck with this new mirrorverse??
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:08 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
What the fuck with this new mirrorverse??
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:08 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, real responsible to publish the spy's name.
Greg Nog, all I can think about is your puppet Marco Rubio singing "Mar-co Ru-bi-o, Mar-co Ru-bi-o!" over and over again
posted by tel3path at 4:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Greg Nog, all I can think about is your puppet Marco Rubio singing "Mar-co Ru-bi-o, Mar-co Ru-bi-o!" over and over again
posted by tel3path at 4:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fox News anchor Shepard Smith defended CNN on Wednesday after Donald Trump accused the network of being “faking news” at a news conference for reporting on the existence of a Russian dossier of unverified allegations about the president-elect.
“President-elect Trump today told CNN’s Jim Acosta that his organization amounts to fake news. CNN’s exclusive reporting on the Russian matter was separate and distinctly different from the document dump executed by an online news property,” Smith said, drawing a distinction between CNN’s reporting and that of BuzzFeed News, which released the entire contents of the Russian dossier.
“Though we at Fox News cannot confirm CNN’s report, it is our observation that its correspondents followed journalistic standards,” Smith said. “Neither they, nor any other journalists, should be subjected to belittling and delegitimizing by the president-elect of the United States.”
posted by futz at 4:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [62 favorites]
“President-elect Trump today told CNN’s Jim Acosta that his organization amounts to fake news. CNN’s exclusive reporting on the Russian matter was separate and distinctly different from the document dump executed by an online news property,” Smith said, drawing a distinction between CNN’s reporting and that of BuzzFeed News, which released the entire contents of the Russian dossier.
“Though we at Fox News cannot confirm CNN’s report, it is our observation that its correspondents followed journalistic standards,” Smith said. “Neither they, nor any other journalists, should be subjected to belittling and delegitimizing by the president-elect of the United States.”
posted by futz at 4:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [62 favorites]
Ed Kilgore has an item on a part of the press conference that didn't get a ton of attention, but which was pretty crazy: Obamacare. Trump Keeps Screwing Up Republican Plans to Repeal Obamacare
Basically, Trump said nothing will happen until Price is confirmed, but all the hearings for that aren't even scheduled yet, while Congress is moving forward on parts of a repeal like right now because it's Vote-a-Rama time (which won't actually repeal anything tonight, but it further advances the process). He seems to have no awareness of what Congress is doing, and Congress has no real awareness of what it's actually doing either because it has no plan.
Then Trump further complicated things by going on about high deductibles and out of pocket costs under Obamacare, but the only thing Republicans seem to agree on is that we need lots of even higher deductibles and HSAs.
Yet Congress is going to go on without Trump. Wonder what he'll do when he realizes their chaos is running the show and not his.
posted by zachlipton at 4:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Basically, Trump said nothing will happen until Price is confirmed, but all the hearings for that aren't even scheduled yet, while Congress is moving forward on parts of a repeal like right now because it's Vote-a-Rama time (which won't actually repeal anything tonight, but it further advances the process). He seems to have no awareness of what Congress is doing, and Congress has no real awareness of what it's actually doing either because it has no plan.
Then Trump further complicated things by going on about high deductibles and out of pocket costs under Obamacare, but the only thing Republicans seem to agree on is that we need lots of even higher deductibles and HSAs.
Yet Congress is going to go on without Trump. Wonder what he'll do when he realizes their chaos is running the show and not his.
posted by zachlipton at 4:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
.....man when Faux is your defender......
posted by lalochezia at 4:18 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by lalochezia at 4:18 PM on January 11, 2017
Trump watches CNN only so he won't see Fox's response.
posted by Yowser at 4:19 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by Yowser at 4:19 PM on January 11, 2017
Listen just because Trump's lawyers won a Russian lawyering award doesn't mean Trump has any ties with Russia we need more evidence
I mean, yes? Morgan Lewis has 2,000 attorneys over 30-ish offices. I work at a comparable law firm and my whole job is telling the attorneys in LA what the attorneys in Tokyo and Berlin are doing, because they have no idea and require a team of 30-some people just to let them know who firm clients are in offices they have no dealings with.
Thankfully the evidence for Trump's connection to Russia is a little stronger than this, because "a law firm that works for his companies in some areas also does work in Moscow" is possibly the lowest standard of evidence that could possibly exist. This is a standard under which Hilary Clinton is also a Russian plant because she had a Morgan Lewis partner vet her VP selections.
posted by Copronymus at 4:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, yes? Morgan Lewis has 2,000 attorneys over 30-ish offices. I work at a comparable law firm and my whole job is telling the attorneys in LA what the attorneys in Tokyo and Berlin are doing, because they have no idea and require a team of 30-some people just to let them know who firm clients are in offices they have no dealings with.
Thankfully the evidence for Trump's connection to Russia is a little stronger than this, because "a law firm that works for his companies in some areas also does work in Moscow" is possibly the lowest standard of evidence that could possibly exist. This is a standard under which Hilary Clinton is also a Russian plant because she had a Morgan Lewis partner vet her VP selections.
posted by Copronymus at 4:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Given the number of media outlets who seemed to be able to get into contact with Steele, I'm not surprised his name surfaced (or was surfaced) so quickly. It's bad news in that line of work when your product is plastered across half the world's press - any publicity is bad publicity, especially if they spell your name right.
On the other hand, he should be quite good at going to ground, and I doubt very much anyone's going to spend too much time looking for him. He's fulfilled his role, whatever the hell it was.
posted by Devonian at 4:20 PM on January 11, 2017
On the other hand, he should be quite good at going to ground, and I doubt very much anyone's going to spend too much time looking for him. He's fulfilled his role, whatever the hell it was.
posted by Devonian at 4:20 PM on January 11, 2017
President Enrique Peña Nieto says Mexico won't be paying for the wall:
Pena Nieto said during a gathering of Mexico’s ambassadors and consuls that it’s evident his country has “some differences with the next government of the United States, like the topic of the wall that Mexico of course will not pay for.”posted by peeedro at 4:24 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
He adds that “basic principles” like “our sovereignty” are “not negotiable.”
On the other hand, he should be quite good at going to ground, and I doubt very much anyone's going to spend too much time looking for him. He's fulfilled his role, whatever the hell it was.
It stinks and I don't blame him for doing it. It's just smart considering. Not super concerned about him though. People in his line of work have things and networks set up to deal with having to disappear like this.
posted by Jalliah at 4:25 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
It stinks and I don't blame him for doing it. It's just smart considering. Not super concerned about him though. People in his line of work have things and networks set up to deal with having to disappear like this.
posted by Jalliah at 4:25 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Feinstein gets pacemaker, misses second day of Sessions hearings
Who do the Dems have on deck to take her seat when the time comes anyway?
posted by entropicamericana at 4:26 PM on January 11, 2017
Who do the Dems have on deck to take her seat when the time comes anyway?
posted by entropicamericana at 4:26 PM on January 11, 2017
that's morbid.
posted by futz at 4:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by futz at 4:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean look the press is universally kissing his ass, he's won the propaganda war lock stock and barrel, the hegemony will be televised resistance is futile
posted by tel3path at 4:29 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by tel3path at 4:29 PM on January 11, 2017
she's 83
posted by entropicamericana at 4:29 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 4:29 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean look the press is universally kissing his ass, he's won the propaganda war lock stock and barrel, the hegemony will be televised resistance is futile
How does this the show whole press kissing his ass and him winning the propo war?
posted by Jalliah at 4:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
How does this the show whole press kissing his ass and him winning the propo war?
posted by Jalliah at 4:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Snopes: Trackdown Shakedown: "In November 2016, a clip from an episode of the 1950s western television series Trackdown was published to YouTube, along with the claim that it "predicted Donald Trump" by featuring a snake oil salesman character named "Trump" who claimed that only he could prevent the end of the world ... by building a wall around the town."
"The Walter Trump character was arrested for "stealing" at the end of the episode."
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
"The Walter Trump character was arrested for "stealing" at the end of the episode."
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
She's the same age as Ruth Bader Ginsberg (in fact that's what I've been telling people who freak out about RBG's mortality - it's comforting, because face it, before this moment the thought of DiFi's mortality has never once crossed your mind, has it?). I don't think it's a bad question to ask. zachlipton is clearly a better person than I, because my reaction to the news was annoyance. She's threatening to run for another six-year term in 2018, and uuuuuuugh.
No idea who'll run for her seat if she doesn't, though. At least it won't be Gavin Newsom.
posted by sunset in snow country at 4:34 PM on January 11, 2017
No idea who'll run for her seat if she doesn't, though. At least it won't be Gavin Newsom.
posted by sunset in snow country at 4:34 PM on January 11, 2017
Tillerson: China should be denied access to South China Sea islands
Asked whether he supported a more aggressive posture toward China, he said: "We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed."posted by christopherious at 4:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I expect it will depend on when that would be, but California has no lack of Democratic politicians who would run for the office, the exact short list would be different in 2018 than in 2024 or something.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:36 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by thefoxgod at 4:36 PM on January 11, 2017
before this moment the thought of DiFi's mortality has never once crossed your mind, has it?
Well, thats partially because there's a 99.9999% chance that her replacement will be a Democrat. Whereas RBG's replacement will not be if that should happen in the next 4 years. So one is far more likely to be worried about / thinking about the latter.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, thats partially because there's a 99.9999% chance that her replacement will be a Democrat. Whereas RBG's replacement will not be if that should happen in the next 4 years. So one is far more likely to be worried about / thinking about the latter.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Who do the Dems have on deck to take her seat when the time comes anyway?
It's California. Expect competition among Democrats in that event.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:38 PM on January 11, 2017
It's California. Expect competition among Democrats in that event.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:38 PM on January 11, 2017
"We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed."
Surely thifjdklfpgh
Surely fjsklfjhjsdjd
Surkkfdjlg;;;kfslklk
—Sorry 'bout that. Trembling too much to type straight right now.
posted by Rykey at 4:40 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Surely thifjdklfpgh
Surely fjsklfjhjsdjd
Surkkfdjlg;;;kfslklk
—Sorry 'bout that. Trembling too much to type straight right now.
posted by Rykey at 4:40 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I just got back from work
What news from the pee front
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
What news from the pee front
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Asked whether he supported a more aggressive posture toward China, he said: "We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed."
*sings* When Two Tribes go to war one point is all that you can scooooooore *sings*
posted by Talez at 4:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
*sings* When Two Tribes go to war one point is all that you can scooooooore *sings*
posted by Talez at 4:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's late. Just a slow drip at this point.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
So how does the Chinese navy and support measure against the US navy and support?
posted by Jalliah at 4:46 PM on January 11, 2017
So now Trump is making pee sex seem tawdry. Thanks Trump.
posted by bongo_x at 4:46 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 4:46 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
So how does the Chinese navy and support measure against the US navy and support?
In a strictly naval battle? The US would massacre the Chinese.
posted by Talez at 4:47 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
In a strictly naval battle? The US would massacre the Chinese.
posted by Talez at 4:47 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pretty sure they're just looking for excuses to default on the Chinese loans.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:48 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:48 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I merely note that Frankie Goes To Hollywood's Two Tribes video had the superpowers wrestling in a ring like mad mofos, while the Relax video (the version not seen on TV) featured golden showers.
Gentlemen, your time has come again. Same bill as Heaven 17? Why yes, put me down for tickets at once.
posted by Devonian at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Gentlemen, your time has come again. Same bill as Heaven 17? Why yes, put me down for tickets at once.
posted by Devonian at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
To put it in perspective, the US could bring a quarter of its navy and still have enough firepower to massacre the Chinese navy. It might suck only bringing an extra half an aircraft carrier though.
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Carriers are to modern naval warfare as battleships were to WWII-era naval warfare. We have a lot of carriers.
posted by entropicamericana at 4:51 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 4:51 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
In a strictly naval battle? The US would massacre the Chinese.
I need to clarify my question. I know the US would ultimately win. I'll just be blunt. In a strictly naval battle, before they ultimately lose how much damage would they likely be able to inflict before they go down? eg What number of people hurt or killed?
posted by Jalliah at 4:51 PM on January 11, 2017
I need to clarify my question. I know the US would ultimately win. I'll just be blunt. In a strictly naval battle, before they ultimately lose how much damage would they likely be able to inflict before they go down? eg What number of people hurt or killed?
posted by Jalliah at 4:51 PM on January 11, 2017
More importantly, we have bigger carriers that can project far superior air power onto a theatre.
posted by Talez at 4:51 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by Talez at 4:51 PM on January 11, 2017
So how does the Chinese navy and support measure against the US navy and support?
In a strictly naval battle? The US would massacre the Chinese.
It's not a strictly naval battle, these areas are within reach of Chinese land-based air forces.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
In a strictly naval battle? The US would massacre the Chinese.
It's not a strictly naval battle, these areas are within reach of Chinese land-based air forces.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Thiel on Obama: ‘No corruption can be a bad thing’
But there’s a point where no corruption can be a bad thing. It can mean that things are too boring.”
Here is the link to the full article at NYT.
posted by futz at 4:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
But there’s a point where no corruption can be a bad thing. It can mean that things are too boring.”
Here is the link to the full article at NYT.
posted by futz at 4:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
A full scale military engagement between nuclear powers is not something anyone has any basis to predict.
posted by Skorgu at 4:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Skorgu at 4:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
The thing about conflict between nuclear powers is that there is nowhere for conflict to escalate to
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:54 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
So how does the Chinese navy and support measure against the US navy and support?
The artificial islands have been outfitted with anti-ship missiles and anti-aircraft missile batteries.
All that has to happen is that ships from the 7th Fleet sail between close to those islands without asking China for permission, and see if China blinks.
If China does not blink, the US has lost a carrier, and the Philippines, Japan and possibly Vietnam are dragged into a war.
Just ten days until Inauguration!
posted by My Dad at 4:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
The artificial islands have been outfitted with anti-ship missiles and anti-aircraft missile batteries.
All that has to happen is that ships from the 7th Fleet sail between close to those islands without asking China for permission, and see if China blinks.
If China does not blink, the US has lost a carrier, and the Philippines, Japan and possibly Vietnam are dragged into a war.
Just ten days until Inauguration!
posted by My Dad at 4:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
In a strictly naval battle, before they ultimately lose how much damage would they likely be able to inflict before they go down? eg What number of people hurt or killed?
A plain answer to this question would be a sort of uselessly wide range. An aircraft carrier has a crew of 5000+ people.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
A plain answer to this question would be a sort of uselessly wide range. An aircraft carrier has a crew of 5000+ people.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
last comment on the naval war derail: interesting read here.
posted by entropicamericana at 4:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 4:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Haha, holy shit -- A closeup photo of the "documents" from the press conference.
As far as I can tell, they're unlabeled new manila folders with perfectly uniform (as in pulled directly from a new ream of paper) bunches of white paper.
Jesus Christ, I was joking earlier about the free blank paper, but they actually didn't even bother to photocopy fake documents for props.
posted by bluecore at 4:57 PM on January 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
As far as I can tell, they're unlabeled new manila folders with perfectly uniform (as in pulled directly from a new ream of paper) bunches of white paper.
Jesus Christ, I was joking earlier about the free blank paper, but they actually didn't even bother to photocopy fake documents for props.
posted by bluecore at 4:57 PM on January 11, 2017 [53 favorites]
Marco Rubio - Senate firebrand.
What the fuck with this new mirrorverse??
Let's wait for the vote before we give him an ounce of credit. There's a time honored tradition of playing bad guy in confirmation hearings then voting for the nominee anyway regardless, and this is NeverTrumper Marco "I retired from the Senate but I'm still here" Rubio we're talking about. He's never once done the right thing in his entire life, the probability he starts now of all times remains exceedingly low.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:01 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
What the fuck with this new mirrorverse??
Let's wait for the vote before we give him an ounce of credit. There's a time honored tradition of playing bad guy in confirmation hearings then voting for the nominee anyway regardless, and this is NeverTrumper Marco "I retired from the Senate but I'm still here" Rubio we're talking about. He's never once done the right thing in his entire life, the probability he starts now of all times remains exceedingly low.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:01 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
They've actually been planning for war with China for years now. It may not even be aircraft carriers. The Third Offset Strategy. [long scary pdf]
posted by Mchelly at 5:01 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 5:01 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Scenarios for a limited theater war with China are missing the larger picture.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
[...] there’s a point where no corruption can be a bad thing. It can mean that things are too boring.
Ah, a connoisseur, with a palate hungering for the taint in the meat, the rot in the grape, the pee in the bed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Ah, a connoisseur, with a palate hungering for the taint in the meat, the rot in the grape, the pee in the bed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:04 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Remarks of the head of the Office of Government Ethics, as prepared for delivery: "I need to talk about ethics today because the plan the President-elect has announced doesn’t meet the standards that the best of his nominees are meeting and that every President in the past four decades has met...Nothing short of divestiture will resolve these conflicts."
It's a very forceful and well-written speech, worth reading in its entirety.
posted by zachlipton at 5:14 PM on January 11, 2017 [47 favorites]
It's a very forceful and well-written speech, worth reading in its entirety.
posted by zachlipton at 5:14 PM on January 11, 2017 [47 favorites]
Carriers are to modern naval warfare as battleships were to WWII-era naval warfare.
useless floating aircraft targets? i dunno about that.
posted by indubitable at 5:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
useless floating aircraft targets? i dunno about that.
posted by indubitable at 5:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Today only - All proceeds from Buzzfeed's Flaming Pile of Garbage merch will benefit the Committee to Protect Journalists
posted by Mchelly at 5:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 5:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
As long as nukes don't factor into it, China's main strategy is "we have more cannon fodder than you have bullets". Their power projection outside SEA sucks. They can bully SEA around because they can march two million troops to a border and say to them "you run in and slaughter anyone you can" but it's much harder to get those two million troops to land in San Francisco.
posted by Talez at 5:17 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 5:17 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
"the best of his nominees are meeting" = the ones who aren't hot garbage.
posted by corb at 5:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Remarks of the head of the Office of Government Ethics, as prepared for delivery: "I need to talk about ethics today because the plan the President-elect has announced doesn’t meet the standards that the best of his nominees are meeting and that every President in the past four decades has met...Nothing short of divestiture will resolve these conflicts."
Is there any possible way I can get odds on this guy being fired January 21st?
posted by Talez at 5:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is there any possible way I can get odds on this guy being fired January 21st?
posted by Talez at 5:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
What about the cyber?
posted by cell divide at 5:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 5:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you can forgive me for not wanting to download a long PDF right now, Mchelly -- my understanding is that the government *always* has plans for potential wars with plausible countries (probably not, for example, Luxembourg)...is this something different?
posted by uosuaq at 5:20 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by uosuaq at 5:20 PM on January 11, 2017
They had War Plan Crimson back in the '30s to take over Canada.
posted by Talez at 5:22 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by Talez at 5:22 PM on January 11, 2017
though we haven’t heard much from right-wing activist James O’Keefe since his failed attempts to uncover voter fraud in Philadelphia last year, it seems he’s been keeping himself busy trying to bribe anti-Trump protesters to commit acts of violence at Trump’s inaugural ceremony.
However, O’Keefe’s plans to sow chaos at the inauguration on January 20 have been upended after he and his Project Veritas group fell victim to a counter-sting that the Huffington Post reports was carried out by The Undercurrent and Americans Take Action.
“The counter-sting… managed to surreptitiously record elements of O’Keefe’s network offering huge sums of money to progressive activists if they would disrupt the ceremony and ‘put a stop to the inauguration’ and the related proceedings to such a degree that donors to the clandestine effort would ‘turn on a TV and maybe not even see Trump,'” the Huffington Post writes. “To have riots blot out coverage of Trump, the donor offered ‘unlimited resources,’ including to shut down bridges into D.C.”
So that's Project Veritas. Having some insight into the way these guys present themselves, they love painting themselves as Bold True Journalists when they try and incite riots through bribery.
Right-wingers I know try and point to them as a smoking gun for proof of liberal skulduggery (which they have - they're under the impression that he was Suppressed By Hillary and the Liberal Media and found something damaging).
Of course, Rawstory's evidence would be rejected as "fake liberal news"...
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
However, O’Keefe’s plans to sow chaos at the inauguration on January 20 have been upended after he and his Project Veritas group fell victim to a counter-sting that the Huffington Post reports was carried out by The Undercurrent and Americans Take Action.
“The counter-sting… managed to surreptitiously record elements of O’Keefe’s network offering huge sums of money to progressive activists if they would disrupt the ceremony and ‘put a stop to the inauguration’ and the related proceedings to such a degree that donors to the clandestine effort would ‘turn on a TV and maybe not even see Trump,'” the Huffington Post writes. “To have riots blot out coverage of Trump, the donor offered ‘unlimited resources,’ including to shut down bridges into D.C.”
So that's Project Veritas. Having some insight into the way these guys present themselves, they love painting themselves as Bold True Journalists when they try and incite riots through bribery.
Right-wingers I know try and point to them as a smoking gun for proof of liberal skulduggery (which they have - they're under the impression that he was Suppressed By Hillary and the Liberal Media and found something damaging).
Of course, Rawstory's evidence would be rejected as "fake liberal news"...
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:22 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
the ones who aren't hot garbage
I dunno, OGE singles out Rex Tillerson for praise, and he's a complete fuckbiscuit.
I will concede that he is a ruthlessly competent fuckbiscuit who knows how bureaucratic shit works and how to comply with it in a minimally acceptable manner.
posted by jackbishop at 5:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I dunno, OGE singles out Rex Tillerson for praise, and he's a complete fuckbiscuit.
I will concede that he is a ruthlessly competent fuckbiscuit who knows how bureaucratic shit works and how to comply with it in a minimally acceptable manner.
posted by jackbishop at 5:23 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
t's a very forceful and well-written speech, worth reading in its entirety.
clicky
This site can’t be reached
www.oge.gov took too long to respond.
Lordy, Fancy Bear are good.
posted by Devonian at 5:24 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
clicky
This site can’t be reached
www.oge.gov took too long to respond.
Lordy, Fancy Bear are good.
posted by Devonian at 5:24 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, uosuaq, it isn't anything new. It's only nightmare fuel now because it suddenly seems like it might actually happen. Also remember how Reagan's people always insisted that Star Wars was only for defense...? Surprise!
posted by Mchelly at 5:25 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by Mchelly at 5:25 PM on January 11, 2017
Is there any possible way I can get odds on this guy being fired January 21st?
Oh, he's there way ahead of you. Bottom of the second page:
posted by jackbishop at 5:30 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Oh, he's there way ahead of you. Bottom of the second page:
I've had the honor and great privilege of serving as Director of the Office of Government Ethics for four years now. But I’ve been in ethics for much longer than that, having come up through the ranks as a career government ethics official. Over the years, I’ve worked closely with countless officials in administrations of both major parties. Ethics has no party. The job hasn't always been easy, though...This is a farewell address. Dude knows he's out on his ass and that there's no sense in holding back. He's probably just glad the administration doesn't quite have their hold on power consolidated enough to have him taken out behind the sheds and shot.
posted by jackbishop at 5:30 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
So that's Project Veritas. Having some insight into the way these guys present themselves, they love painting themselves as Bold True Journalists when they try and incite riots through bribery.
I suspect the idea was to *record liberals* agreeing to incite riots for money. Not trying to defend those assholes, I just think you're forgetting their M.O.
posted by uosuaq at 5:30 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I suspect the idea was to *record liberals* agreeing to incite riots for money. Not trying to defend those assholes, I just think you're forgetting their M.O.
posted by uosuaq at 5:30 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I dunno, OGE singles out Rex Tillerson for praise, and he's a complete fuckbiscuit.
I will concede that he is a ruthlessly competent fuckbiscuit who knows how bureaucratic shit works and how to comply with it in a minimally acceptable manner.
I don't think the OGE see their ethics role as expansively as to wish to take a view on if a nominee is or is not a fuckbiscuit, although I will admit that their earlier tweetstorm on Trump does suggest they've come close.
posted by jaduncan at 5:31 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
I will concede that he is a ruthlessly competent fuckbiscuit who knows how bureaucratic shit works and how to comply with it in a minimally acceptable manner.
I don't think the OGE see their ethics role as expansively as to wish to take a view on if a nominee is or is not a fuckbiscuit, although I will admit that their earlier tweetstorm on Trump does suggest they've come close.
posted by jaduncan at 5:31 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Don't worry, Mchelly, I'm sure we won't get into a war with China unless that's what...Putin...wants....oh dear.
posted by uosuaq at 5:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The B Street Band, America’s No. 1 Springsteen tribute band, agrees to play Trump inaugural ball
posted by octothorpe at 5:35 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:35 PM on January 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
A D-list band for a D-list president.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:35 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:35 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
I would support a new Office of Government Fuckbiscuitry.
Moving on, the Post has a new story on the "unverified" two-page summary, which they say was fully explained to Trump at his briefing:
Decision to brief Trump on allegations brought a secret and unsubstantiated dossier into the public domain:
So intelligence officials attach this thing to their briefing to cover their own asses, they leak that they did so to CNN, which in turn causes BuzzFeed to publish it. What a farce.
posted by zachlipton at 5:39 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Moving on, the Post has a new story on the "unverified" two-page summary, which they say was fully explained to Trump at his briefing:
Decision to brief Trump on allegations brought a secret and unsubstantiated dossier into the public domain:
“You’d be derelict if you didn’t” mention the dossier, a U.S. official said. To ignore the file, produced by a private-sector security firm, would only make the supposed guardians of the nation’s secrets seem uninformed, officials said, adding that many were convinced that it was only a matter of time before someone decided to publish the material.
Their decision appears to have hastened that outcome, triggering coverage of politically charged allegations that news organizations had tried to run down for months but could find no basis for publishing until they were summarized and included alongside a highly classified report assembled by the nation’s intelligence services.
So intelligence officials attach this thing to their briefing to cover their own asses, they leak that they did so to CNN, which in turn causes BuzzFeed to publish it. What a farce.
posted by zachlipton at 5:39 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shameless plug for a good friend of mine who created a new Twitter account today: WeThinkThere4WeAre. He's an excellent critical thinker but still getting a handle on social media, and I'm trying to talk him into creating a blog for the longer pieces he's got planned.
The press will have to learn to begin every question with an indisputable fact. Here are some suggestions:posted by christopherious at 5:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
You admit you are great at taking advantage of tax laws. How would you change the laws so that it would be harder to exploit them?
If you saw a video where a man bragged about grabbing your daughter's genitals, what would you do?
Why do you think every other member of the UN Security Council voted to condemn Israel for building illegal settlements?
In 2014, you stated that you 'absolutely' would release your taxes if you ran for president. Are you a man of your word?
Why did it take you more than 5 years to disavow the wacko idea that President Obama was born outside the US?
What steps will you take to force Russia to return illegally gained territory from Ukraine?
I remarked in an email today that the weirdest thing is the continual realization that the life you have lived is not what life IS, but is just a particular and very specific moment.
Now it's a different moment. I wonder what will happen. I keep refreshing this thread with the seemingly foolish hope for a bit of good news. The soon to be president is a puppet of Russia. He is also a spectacularly uninformed and unhinged narcissist with the self-control of a toddler. Well, that is unexpected.
I have tried to remind myself that human progress overall has been positive. And then I remember that it's not just a bunch of soulless billionaires doing this thing (they just reap all the benefits) - it's also a lot of people who just want the world to burn in revenge for a Black president. And because our side, the kinder and gentler side, has been demonized so effectively by the people at the top.
Maybe none of you are really here. I read that thing recently, about how we might just be sprites in a video game*.
*A HELLA advanced Sims type thinger. But maybe they added some war games. :(
posted by Glinn at 5:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Now it's a different moment. I wonder what will happen. I keep refreshing this thread with the seemingly foolish hope for a bit of good news. The soon to be president is a puppet of Russia. He is also a spectacularly uninformed and unhinged narcissist with the self-control of a toddler. Well, that is unexpected.
I have tried to remind myself that human progress overall has been positive. And then I remember that it's not just a bunch of soulless billionaires doing this thing (they just reap all the benefits) - it's also a lot of people who just want the world to burn in revenge for a Black president. And because our side, the kinder and gentler side, has been demonized so effectively by the people at the top.
Maybe none of you are really here. I read that thing recently, about how we might just be sprites in a video game*.
*A HELLA advanced Sims type thinger. But maybe they added some war games. :(
posted by Glinn at 5:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
So intelligence officials attach this thing to their briefing to cover their own asses, they leak that they did so to CNN, which in turn causes BuzzFeed to publish it. What a farce.
This is not the only way this can be read.
posted by Jalliah at 5:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
> The B Street Band, America’s No. 1 Springsteen tribute band, agrees to play Trump inaugural ball
This made me curious about the rankings for Springsteen tribute bands, and a bit of research quickly reveals that there is no small amount of contention over who holds the "No. 1" title.
posted by contraption at 5:46 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
This made me curious about the rankings for Springsteen tribute bands, and a bit of research quickly reveals that there is no small amount of contention over who holds the "No. 1" title.
posted by contraption at 5:46 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ah, mea culpa. I know Project Veritas largely through conservatives talking them up as anti-liberal muckrakers, and that MO sounds more sneaky. I hope to God no one took their bait, because if I heard someone trying to bribe people into rioting at a peaceful protest I participated in that would smack of a plant.
(What would be a better way to argue against PV and what they do to conservative friends? It's scummy, but it presumably isn't illegal.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:47 PM on January 11, 2017
(What would be a better way to argue against PV and what they do to conservative friends? It's scummy, but it presumably isn't illegal.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:47 PM on January 11, 2017
The biggest irony is that Bruce Springsteen himself is staunchly on our side and despises Trump.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Based on their level of publicity (which I'm sure the PEOTUS would agree is the only meaningful standard) I think Bruce In The USA deserves the No. 1 title, with the B Street Band at a possible No. 2. So maybe not the best Bruce Springsteen cover band, but one of the better ones, and really still quite a get.
If you didn't score tickets to the inaugural ball but still want to catch them, they're playing the lounge in the Parx Casino in NJ on the 15th at 4 PM, and an "After Prom Fundraiser (Open to the public)" elsewhere in Jersey on the night of the 20th.
posted by contraption at 6:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
If you didn't score tickets to the inaugural ball but still want to catch them, they're playing the lounge in the Parx Casino in NJ on the 15th at 4 PM, and an "After Prom Fundraiser (Open to the public)" elsewhere in Jersey on the night of the 20th.
posted by contraption at 6:03 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I read that thing recently, about how we might just be sprites in a video game*
i am so going to cosmic gamestop and get a fucking refund
posted by pyramid termite at 6:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
i am so going to cosmic gamestop and get a fucking refund
posted by pyramid termite at 6:07 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Whew. Caught up. This is like right before the election, again. I am out of favorites, but zachlipton, I want to thank you for bringing it with your links. Seriously, great work finding this stuff, and thank you for sharing it, and for your commentary too.
I wanted to share this link with regard to the whole "busses" thing. I've been using rhetoric like that too, but I think this is a really good point:
Also I wanted to say people are neither all good nor all bad (as groups or as individuals.) A lot of people did tolerate and support slavery, but not everyone, and eventually equally flawed human people ended it. A lot of people looked the other way during the Holocaust... and others died trying to stop it. Individuals wanted to help but didn't want to leave their kids orphans, and then further rationalized their inaction to be able to live with themselves. And some did smaller things that they could do safely to help their neighbors.
History says people do terrible things and people do brave and selfless things and sometimes it's the same people. And history doesn't stop. This is our moment.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:12 PM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
I wanted to share this link with regard to the whole "busses" thing. I've been using rhetoric like that too, but I think this is a really good point:
The reality is that everyday life under the kinds of authoritarianism that exist today is very familiar to most Americans. You go to work, you eat your lunch, you go home to your family. There are schools and businesses, and some people “make it” through hard work and luck. Most people worry about making sure their kids get into good schools. The military is in the barracks, and the police mostly investigate crimes and solve cases. There is political dissent, if rarely open protest, but in general people are free to complain to one another. There are even elections. This is Malaysia, and many countries like it.Really, it could just be like North Carolina. Bad policies you don't like, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, because your voice doesn't matter.
Life is pretty normal, except that elections — which often exist — change nothing
Everyday life in the modern authoritarian regime is, in this sense, boring and tolerable. It is not outrageous.
Also I wanted to say people are neither all good nor all bad (as groups or as individuals.) A lot of people did tolerate and support slavery, but not everyone, and eventually equally flawed human people ended it. A lot of people looked the other way during the Holocaust... and others died trying to stop it. Individuals wanted to help but didn't want to leave their kids orphans, and then further rationalized their inaction to be able to live with themselves. And some did smaller things that they could do safely to help their neighbors.
History says people do terrible things and people do brave and selfless things and sometimes it's the same people. And history doesn't stop. This is our moment.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:12 PM on January 11, 2017 [30 favorites]
@seanspicer Regardless of party, @acosta behavior was rude, inappropriate and disrespectful. He owes @realDonaldTrump and his colleagues an apology
So he didn't tug his forelock? Didn't get down on bended knee and kiss the ring? Didn't tongue-bathe the Orange One with glorious praise? Journalists these days! Sheesh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
So he didn't tug his forelock? Didn't get down on bended knee and kiss the ring? Didn't tongue-bathe the Orange One with glorious praise? Journalists these days! Sheesh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Army Leaker Chelsea Manning on Obama’s ‘Short List’ for Commutation
President Barack Obama has put Chelsea Manning, the former Army intelligence analyst serving a 35-year sentence for leaking classified material, on his short list for a possible commutation, a Justice Department source told NBC News.
A decision could come as soon as Wednesday for Manning, who has tried to commit suicide twice over the past year and went on a hunger strike in a bid for gender reassignment surgery.
posted by futz at 6:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
President Barack Obama has put Chelsea Manning, the former Army intelligence analyst serving a 35-year sentence for leaking classified material, on his short list for a possible commutation, a Justice Department source told NBC News.
A decision could come as soon as Wednesday for Manning, who has tried to commit suicide twice over the past year and went on a hunger strike in a bid for gender reassignment surgery.
posted by futz at 6:13 PM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
History says people do terrible things and people do brave and selfless things and sometimes it's the same people. And history doesn't stop. This is our moment.
QFT. The situation's bleak and the enemy powerful, but I'm going to fight, and I'm honored to have all of you fighting at my side. United, we may not be able to stop Donald but we can certainly get in his way and show him that he won't go unopposed completely.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
QFT. The situation's bleak and the enemy powerful, but I'm going to fight, and I'm honored to have all of you fighting at my side. United, we may not be able to stop Donald but we can certainly get in his way and show him that he won't go unopposed completely.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:18 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Politico: House Democrats threaten to revolt over Mattis waiver
“The transition team told me last night that they would not allow him to come and testify, even though we have been communicating with them since December, and even though Mattis himself is enthusiastic to come testify,” Thornberry said in an interview.When I heard that the hearing was canceled I thought that there was trouble in Trumpland and that maybe Mattis was quitting. This sounds like the Trump team didn't want him being questioned more than was absolutely necessary-- tomorrow he will testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and they have already said they will give him his waiver. The House will also hold a vote and give him the waiver. The Democrats are powerless to stop this. Republicans in the House are weeping giant crocodile tears over the lack of a bipartisan agreement on the waiver.
Thornberry said the transition team told him they were concerned about adding extra public settings for questions that could complicate the confirmation process, as well as the fact that Mattis would be testifying on civilian control specifically in the House, and not the Senate, despite his Thursday hearing in the Senate.
“I’m disappointed,” Thornberry added. “I think it’s a mistake. This is a big issue — it hadn’t come up in 67 years — it deserves a hearing. I think it was an opportunity to help him. He’s very well regarded, but it was an opportunity to help him get off on a good start relationally with the committee."
It’s a big mistake by the administration not to have him come and talk to us,” said Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.). “On something that’s this momentous, where you are making an exemption to the law — it doesn’t change my mind, but he should have come in and talk to the House about it.”posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
He owes @realDonaldTrump and his colleagues an apology
Americans don't kneel before kings. Scary Spicer can go fuck itself.
Sadly loling at Maddow's piece right now on Exxon's quest to be a state-backed oil company. Whither ho, libertarians?
posted by octobersurprise at 6:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Americans don't kneel before kings. Scary Spicer can go fuck itself.
Sadly loling at Maddow's piece right now on Exxon's quest to be a state-backed oil company. Whither ho, libertarians?
posted by octobersurprise at 6:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rachel Maddow knocked it out of the park tonight showing Tillerson's interest in removing sanctions against Russia due to Exxons massive holdings in drilling rights in Russia.
posted by gatorae at 6:30 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by gatorae at 6:30 PM on January 11, 2017
Also FTA I just posted about Chelsea:
"I understand that I must pay the price for my decisions and actions," Manning added.
Those words of contrition did not sway the military judge, who gave Manning a sentence about 10 times longer than those of recent whistle-blowers.
"After this case, I had to tell Chelsea: 'I've represented murderers. I've represented rapists. I've represented child molesters. And none of them received 35 years,'" defense lawyer David Coombs told NBC News.
I really hope that this leak about her release comes true. To have this awesome hope crushed will be just awful to say the least. *understatement*
Please let there be some good news in the midst of all this muck.
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I understand that I must pay the price for my decisions and actions," Manning added.
Those words of contrition did not sway the military judge, who gave Manning a sentence about 10 times longer than those of recent whistle-blowers.
"After this case, I had to tell Chelsea: 'I've represented murderers. I've represented rapists. I've represented child molesters. And none of them received 35 years,'" defense lawyer David Coombs told NBC News.
I really hope that this leak about her release comes true. To have this awesome hope crushed will be just awful to say the least. *understatement*
Please let there be some good news in the midst of all this muck.
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Whither ho, libertarians?
A corporation backed by the state? What kind of looters' plot is that? Surely John Galt would not approve!
/s
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
A corporation backed by the state? What kind of looters' plot is that? Surely John Galt would not approve!
/s
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
What news from the pee front
All quiet on the cistern front
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [56 favorites]
All quiet on the cistern front
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [56 favorites]
Financial Times: Trump Tower sets the stage for the landlord-in-chief
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
The Trump employees laughed at his jokes and shouted out supportive answers to his rhetorical questions. One even took it upon himself to look over a reporter’s shoulder and ask if he intended to publish the words written on his notepad. When Mr Trump was finished, his acolytes pronounced his performance a resounding success.Good Lord. If I had been that journalist I would have made a scene, I think. Stood up and stared down the Trump employee and ask them to get out of my fucking space. This is complete and utter crap and allowed this much room, they will start taking more.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 PM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think I figured out why the B Street Band was picked:
BSTREETBAND Members
Willie Forte (Vocals, Keyboards)
Glenn Stuart (Lead Vocals, Guitar, Congas)
Steve Baranian (Vocals, Lead Guitar)
Steve Pozzelanti 'Poz' (Drums)
Steve Myers ‘The Phantom’ (Sax, Vocal)
Steve ‘The Count’ Lopresto (Bass Guitar)
posted by krinklyfig at 6:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
BSTREETBAND Members
Willie Forte (Vocals, Keyboards)
Glenn Stuart (Lead Vocals, Guitar, Congas)
Steve Baranian (Vocals, Lead Guitar)
Steve Pozzelanti 'Poz' (Drums)
Steve Myers ‘The Phantom’ (Sax, Vocal)
Steve ‘The Count’ Lopresto (Bass Guitar)
posted by krinklyfig at 6:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [57 favorites]
What news from the pee front
You can't spell "Trump" without "p" or "u." Without "p" "u" it's just "Trm."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2017
You can't spell "Trump" without "p" or "u." Without "p" "u" it's just "Trm."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2017
I think I figured out why the B Street Band was picked:
BSTREETBAND Members
You figured out where all the Steves are!
posted by Jalliah at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
BSTREETBAND Members
You figured out where all the Steves are!
posted by Jalliah at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I wonder what the press room at the WH will be like. He won't want it unless he can have clapping etc. like today. Maybe that was his first and last press conference. Or maybe the press room will have Trumpy plants to intimidate them. Depressing no matter what.
posted by gatorae at 6:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 6:45 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Without P or U it's Mr. T.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:46 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:46 PM on January 11, 2017
The B Street Band, America’s No. 1 Springsteen tribute band, agrees to play Trump inaugural ball
The biggest irony is that Bruce Springsteen himself is staunchly on our side and despises Trump.
I was thinking about how like all conservatives, Trump invokes St. Reagan, then how Reagan apparently only ever heard the chorus of "Born in the USA," because it was pressed into use as a patriotic crowd-rouser for him, and then how doubtless The B-List Street Band will surely play it to get fists pumping, and then how Trump has announced several inaugural balls, and then how it takes a lot of balls to be that blatant in your tone-deaf appropriation of someone else's art, and then I had to go sit quietly for a few minutes.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:47 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The biggest irony is that Bruce Springsteen himself is staunchly on our side and despises Trump.
I was thinking about how like all conservatives, Trump invokes St. Reagan, then how Reagan apparently only ever heard the chorus of "Born in the USA," because it was pressed into use as a patriotic crowd-rouser for him, and then how doubtless The B-
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:47 PM on January 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I pity the fool who confuses Mr T with Mr Trm.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 6:49 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
You figured out where all the Steves are!
And the amulet, and the jade figurine?
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
And the amulet, and the jade figurine?
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:52 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
tomorrow he will testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and they have already said they will give him his waiver
The Politico article says, "Senate Democrats could prevent the waiver from passing, as a provision included in the December continuing spending resolution set up a 60-vote threshold."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:58 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
My President Was Black by Ta-Nehisi Coates
wow, as usual.
posted by futz at 7:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
wow, as usual.
posted by futz at 7:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
DNI Clapper Statement on Conversation with President-elect Trump
This evening, I had the opportunity to speak with President-elect Donald Trump to discuss recent media reports about our briefing last Friday. I expressed my profound dismay at the leaks that have been appearing in the press, and we both agreed that they are extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security.
We also discussed the private security company document, which was widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of Congress and Congressional staff even before the IC became aware of it. I emphasized that this document is not a U.S. Intelligence Community product and that I do not believe the leaks came from within the IC. The IC has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. However, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible picture of any matters that might affect national security.
President-elect Trump again affirmed his appreciation for all the men and women serving in the Intelligence Community, and I assured him that the IC stands ready to serve his Administration and the American people.
That is the totality of the PR.
posted by futz at 7:26 PM on January 11, 2017
This evening, I had the opportunity to speak with President-elect Donald Trump to discuss recent media reports about our briefing last Friday. I expressed my profound dismay at the leaks that have been appearing in the press, and we both agreed that they are extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security.
We also discussed the private security company document, which was widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of Congress and Congressional staff even before the IC became aware of it. I emphasized that this document is not a U.S. Intelligence Community product and that I do not believe the leaks came from within the IC. The IC has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. However, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible picture of any matters that might affect national security.
President-elect Trump again affirmed his appreciation for all the men and women serving in the Intelligence Community, and I assured him that the IC stands ready to serve his Administration and the American people.
That is the totality of the PR.
posted by futz at 7:26 PM on January 11, 2017
Trump 'compromising' claims: How and why did we get here? [bbc]
Excellent summary, with choice asides, of how this all came to pass.
Interesting tidbits:
- Comey is an even bigger ratfucker than on the face of things
- behind-the scenes partisan (pro-Trump) judiciary stuff
- multiple video+audio of "sexual nature" stuff; and "It's hokey as hell."
- forget the sex stuff, the money stuff might be big. Felony big.
- this article convinced me that 'credible' means 'credible'; it lacks only hard evidence, and some of that might start to surface if only someone would deign to dig
posted by porpoise at 7:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Excellent summary, with choice asides, of how this all came to pass.
Interesting tidbits:
- Comey is an even bigger ratfucker than on the face of things
- behind-the scenes partisan (pro-Trump) judiciary stuff
- multiple video+audio of "sexual nature" stuff; and "It's hokey as hell."
- forget the sex stuff, the money stuff might be big. Felony big.
- this article convinced me that 'credible' means 'credible'; it lacks only hard evidence, and some of that might start to surface if only someone would deign to dig
posted by porpoise at 7:32 PM on January 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
That is the totality of the PR.
He is getting so played.
posted by Jalliah at 7:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He is getting so played.
posted by Jalliah at 7:34 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess Donnie Trumpy's sexual palate must be as jejune, unimaginative, and crass as his taste for food.
posted by porpoise at 7:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 7:36 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
He is getting so played.
The story just dropped so I am awaiting what people have to say about it. The twiiter is aflutter and beaks are ready to peck.
posted by futz at 7:39 PM on January 11, 2017
The story just dropped so I am awaiting what people have to say about it. The twiiter is aflutter and beaks are ready to peck.
posted by futz at 7:39 PM on January 11, 2017
At least President trm is one letter short of a full term.
I'm taking it as hope.
you can't take that away from me
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm taking it as hope.
you can't take that away from me
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:42 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
it's happening again.
@realDonaldTrump
We had a great News Conference at Trump Tower today. A couple of FAKE NEWS organizations were there but the people truly get what's going on
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
We had a great News Conference at Trump Tower today. A couple of FAKE NEWS organizations were there but the people truly get what's going on
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:05 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
My take
If Clapper's release is indeed how it went down then it is full of good stuff.
Clapper confirms CNN report was true. (This means Trump is wrong about CNN)
Clapper commiserates with Trump, 'we are just as appalled a you about the unsubstantiated report' (ego massage)
Clapper also convinces Trump that the leaks did not come from them. They wouldn't never do that because 'security' but also lets everyone else know that yes the information in the dossier is unsubstantiated but their conclusions (all of the Russia hacking and election meddling) were not based on it (Game is still on media for the Russia connection stuff!)
Also lets the public know that a whole bunch of people including congress had this dossier for a while. Mentions congress in particular. This is on purpose to direct some gazing at them.
Ends with Trump praising Tapper and the work they are doing and assures (result of the ego massaging and comisseration. Ends with assuring Donald that they are there for him and are ready to serve him (you are the President Donald, you are important)
The wind is taken out of the sails of Donald's accusations against the CI. (at least until the next round) Tapper also needs to do what he can to try to mitigate whatever actions Donald is planning to take against the CI. Best way is to make him feel like his ass is being kissed.
This statement is also made to communicate to Russian intelligence.
posted by Jalliah at 8:08 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
If Clapper's release is indeed how it went down then it is full of good stuff.
Clapper confirms CNN report was true. (This means Trump is wrong about CNN)
Clapper commiserates with Trump, 'we are just as appalled a you about the unsubstantiated report' (ego massage)
Clapper also convinces Trump that the leaks did not come from them. They wouldn't never do that because 'security' but also lets everyone else know that yes the information in the dossier is unsubstantiated but their conclusions (all of the Russia hacking and election meddling) were not based on it (Game is still on media for the Russia connection stuff!)
Also lets the public know that a whole bunch of people including congress had this dossier for a while. Mentions congress in particular. This is on purpose to direct some gazing at them.
Ends with Trump praising Tapper and the work they are doing and assures (result of the ego massaging and comisseration. Ends with assuring Donald that they are there for him and are ready to serve him (you are the President Donald, you are important)
The wind is taken out of the sails of Donald's accusations against the CI. (at least until the next round) Tapper also needs to do what he can to try to mitigate whatever actions Donald is planning to take against the CI. Best way is to make him feel like his ass is being kissed.
This statement is also made to communicate to Russian intelligence.
posted by Jalliah at 8:08 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
zachlipton: And that was Breitbart's Matt Boyle who asked how Trump would "reform" the press for reporting fake news.
Also, the transition team reserved only one seat in the press conference and it was for that Breitbart reporter.
posted by bluecore at 8:14 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Also, the transition team reserved only one seat in the press conference and it was for that Breitbart reporter.
posted by bluecore at 8:14 PM on January 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
And I have no idea why I kept wring Tapper instead of Clapper. My brain is fried I guess. My spelling recognition plummets when I'm tired. So sorry.
posted by Jalliah at 8:15 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
You forgot crass.
posted by porpoise at 8:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 8:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I had an important realization that struck me in a profound way, that has remotely to do with the previous discussions of possible fascist slide into repeating dark times in history.
I was thinking of what I do, and the people coming out into the streets now from prison and they really are jumping from the early/mid 90 bush era drug policies into a Trump Presidency. And what that means in terms of likelihood of recidivism (false/non intentional and intentional), and what supports are needed fo transitioning into the outside world safely and effectively.
I'm sure it could be it's own FPP and my goal isn't too derail the thread but place out a thought about how our world is changing. And now how I'm thinking about new things I may need to learn and build resources for.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was thinking of what I do, and the people coming out into the streets now from prison and they really are jumping from the early/mid 90 bush era drug policies into a Trump Presidency. And what that means in terms of likelihood of recidivism (false/non intentional and intentional), and what supports are needed fo transitioning into the outside world safely and effectively.
I'm sure it could be it's own FPP and my goal isn't too derail the thread but place out a thought about how our world is changing. And now how I'm thinking about new things I may need to learn and build resources for.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:28 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah well, you're a fantastic insult
/precedential
posted by porpoise at 8:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
/precedential
posted by porpoise at 8:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The FISA Court being in the tank for Trump is the most dangerous thing out of all of this, along with just how deep Comey's treason really was in the light of day. FISA is the shadow Supreme Court of the intelligence community, a rubber stamp in all but name EXCEPT for Trump kompromat.
The turn key totalitarian state is sitting there waiting, and it's keepers blocked attempts to investigate him before the election so Trump can be installed and take control.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:47 PM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
The turn key totalitarian state is sitting there waiting, and it's keepers blocked attempts to investigate him before the election so Trump can be installed and take control.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:47 PM on January 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
"Your sexual palate is jejune and unimaginative!" This is a fantastic insult.
Along with a few other mefites, I am a big fan of the late Jack Vance at least in part for his baroque prose. I am somehow reminded of a description a secondary villain character in The Green Pearl, whose eccentric personality is inventoried by the antagonist of the novel. One of the points is, "He lacks interest in ordinary sexual procedures."
Dunno why that came to mind.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Along with a few other mefites, I am a big fan of the late Jack Vance at least in part for his baroque prose. I am somehow reminded of a description a secondary villain character in The Green Pearl, whose eccentric personality is inventoried by the antagonist of the novel. One of the points is, "He lacks interest in ordinary sexual procedures."
Dunno why that came to mind.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:55 PM on January 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Comey not being the only kingmaker in the intelligence community is distressing but not at all surprising.
If anything, Comey's another real snake in this story. Obama appointed him and he acted according to his nature.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
If anything, Comey's another real snake in this story. Obama appointed him and he acted according to his nature.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 9:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
One of the points is, "He lacks interest in ordinary sexual procedures."
Let me instruct you. His name is Donald. He is a businessman of very limited skill and certain curious habits, owing perhaps to yellow bloom in the cracks of the brain. You must overlook his peculiarities, and give precise orders, since at times he is flighty. Donald lacks all qualms; if you want your grandmother strangled, Donald will oblige, with care and courtesy, or, if you prefer, he will strangle his own grandmother.
posted by theodolite at 9:25 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Let me instruct you. His name is Donald. He is a businessman of very limited skill and certain curious habits, owing perhaps to yellow bloom in the cracks of the brain. You must overlook his peculiarities, and give precise orders, since at times he is flighty. Donald lacks all qualms; if you want your grandmother strangled, Donald will oblige, with care and courtesy, or, if you prefer, he will strangle his own grandmother.
posted by theodolite at 9:25 PM on January 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Judge: Exxon Mobil must give documents to attorney general
The judge ruled that Exxon Mobil, a global oil and gas company, faced a heavy legal burden in trying to show a reason it shouldn't have to turn over the information.
"There is no requirement that the Attorney General have probable cause to believe that a violation (of the law) has occurred," Judge Heidi Brieger wrote. "She need only have a belief that a person has engaged in or is engaging in conduct declared to be unlawful."
The judge added that, while the attorney general must not act arbitrarily or in excess of her statutory authority, "she need not be confident of the probable result of her investigation."
posted by futz at 9:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
The judge ruled that Exxon Mobil, a global oil and gas company, faced a heavy legal burden in trying to show a reason it shouldn't have to turn over the information.
"There is no requirement that the Attorney General have probable cause to believe that a violation (of the law) has occurred," Judge Heidi Brieger wrote. "She need only have a belief that a person has engaged in or is engaging in conduct declared to be unlawful."
The judge added that, while the attorney general must not act arbitrarily or in excess of her statutory authority, "she need not be confident of the probable result of her investigation."
posted by futz at 9:37 PM on January 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
NY Times front page coverage of the Comey letter
NY Times front page coverage of the Trump dossier
(via @mattmfm)
posted by Rhaomi at 9:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
NY Times front page coverage of the Trump dossier
(via @mattmfm)
posted by Rhaomi at 9:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [33 favorites]
"Liberal media". Ha ha ha.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Craig Harrington's beautiful response to Kellyanne Conway:
"I'm just so astonished to hear people outwardly ridicule the office of the president and it's current occupant." - @KellyannePolls
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
"I'm just so astonished to hear people outwardly ridicule the office of the president and it's current occupant." - @KellyannePolls
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:02 PM on January 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
This time Trump has gone too far.
Water Park of America to close by end of January
posted by Evilspork at 10:07 PM on January 11, 2017
Water Park of America to close by end of January
posted by Evilspork at 10:07 PM on January 11, 2017
They're getting the band back together!
Eric Holder to Lead Democrats’ Attack on Republican Gerrymandering
From the article...
Thwarted for much of his term by a confrontational Republican Congress, and criticized by his fellow Democrats for not devoting sufficient attention to their down-ballot candidates, Mr. Obama has decided to make the byzantine process of legislative redistricting a central political priority in his first years after the presidency.
Emerging as Mr. Obama’s chief collaborator and proxy is Eric H. Holder Jr., the former attorney general of the United States and a personal friend of the president...
...Mr. Holder said he anticipated that Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. would also be involved, along with other “present and former cabinet members.”
posted by billyfleetwood at 10:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Eric Holder to Lead Democrats’ Attack on Republican Gerrymandering
From the article...
Thwarted for much of his term by a confrontational Republican Congress, and criticized by his fellow Democrats for not devoting sufficient attention to their down-ballot candidates, Mr. Obama has decided to make the byzantine process of legislative redistricting a central political priority in his first years after the presidency.
Emerging as Mr. Obama’s chief collaborator and proxy is Eric H. Holder Jr., the former attorney general of the United States and a personal friend of the president...
...Mr. Holder said he anticipated that Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. would also be involved, along with other “present and former cabinet members.”
posted by billyfleetwood at 10:10 PM on January 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Actual photograph of the future Trump cabinet in session.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:16 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
vote-a-rama is essentially over btw.
Almost seven hours later, nearly done with vote-a-rama. As expected, every Democrat-led amendment to keep pieces of Obamacare has failed.
posted by futz at 10:35 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Almost seven hours later, nearly done with vote-a-rama. As expected, every Democrat-led amendment to keep pieces of Obamacare has failed.
posted by futz at 10:35 PM on January 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, there goes everyone's health insurance. Mine included.
I'll be giving the Trumpites in therapy this week an earful over this.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:39 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll be giving the Trumpites in therapy this week an earful over this.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 10:39 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Voted down preexisting condition protection.
Voted down on letting adult children staying on parents plan
Voted down contraceptive coverage.
Such charming old white men. Fuckers. And yes I know that this vote holds no weight. Yet.
posted by futz at 10:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
Voted down on letting adult children staying on parents plan
Voted down contraceptive coverage.
Such charming old white men. Fuckers. And yes I know that this vote holds no weight. Yet.
posted by futz at 10:43 PM on January 11, 2017 [27 favorites]
Interestingly, from the same source, 12 Republicans voted for the Sanders plan to get drugs from Canada...but 13 Democrats voted against it.
posted by corb at 10:50 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by corb at 10:50 PM on January 11, 2017
Voted down preexisting condition protection.
Voted down on letting adult children staying on parents plan
Voted down contraceptive coverage.
Every single Republican except one voted for the complete repeal of health insurance for some 20 million people. The exception was Rand Paul who approved the repeal part but objected to a cost part of the budget resolution.
Tell me again about those moderate Republican unicorns. NeverTrumpers aren't worth a bucket of spit.
posted by JackFlash at 10:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
Voted down on letting adult children staying on parents plan
Voted down contraceptive coverage.
Every single Republican except one voted for the complete repeal of health insurance for some 20 million people. The exception was Rand Paul who approved the repeal part but objected to a cost part of the budget resolution.
Tell me again about those moderate Republican unicorns. NeverTrumpers aren't worth a bucket of spit.
posted by JackFlash at 10:56 PM on January 11, 2017 [40 favorites]
Reading these news summaries, am I the only one who wants to see a complete breakdown, including votes, of all 170+ amendments of the Vote-A-Rama?
posted by corb at 11:01 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:01 PM on January 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
You are not the only one.
posted by anastasiav at 11:11 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by anastasiav at 11:11 PM on January 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Voted down preexisting condition protection.
Voted down on letting adult children staying on parents plan
Voted down contraceptive coverage.
It's symbolic since removing this stuff would be subject to filibuster but boy what a symbol.
posted by Justinian at 11:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Voted down on letting adult children staying on parents plan
Voted down contraceptive coverage.
It's symbolic since removing this stuff would be subject to filibuster but boy what a symbol.
posted by Justinian at 11:19 PM on January 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
There are no Never Trumpers who want to keep the ACA, they've been gunning for it before Trump ever thought running for office was a decent way to ginny up attention for himself.
posted by PenDevil at 11:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 11:20 PM on January 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there a complete list of all the votes taken today? Let's undo some of the obfuscation by sharing out some of the more glaring votes a few at a time on our social media.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:36 PM on January 11, 2017
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:36 PM on January 11, 2017
Every single Democratic Senator contravened the rules and stood up in protest before casting a vote tonight. Every single one.
posted by Superplin at 11:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 11:41 PM on January 11, 2017 [60 favorites]
Video of Al Franken and Elizabeth Warren voting on budget reconciliation. [contained in a tweet]
posted by Superplin at 12:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 12:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Please don't wish death on your political enemies, no matter how jokingly or (more or less) how terrible they are.
Why not
Well for one thing because I knew someone who got a visit from secret service after she wrote on the internet that she wished G.W. Bush would die. I mean, the USSS agents agreed it was ridiculous they were there, but she was reported by someone who wished her harm and they showed up. Now, 2003 is probably different from 2017 in that respect, but still, it's best to keep ill wishes private.
posted by threeturtles at 12:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why not
Well for one thing because I knew someone who got a visit from secret service after she wrote on the internet that she wished G.W. Bush would die. I mean, the USSS agents agreed it was ridiculous they were there, but she was reported by someone who wished her harm and they showed up. Now, 2003 is probably different from 2017 in that respect, but still, it's best to keep ill wishes private.
posted by threeturtles at 12:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think Obamacare's best hope is that some sort of "repeal and replace immediately" amendment gets passed. If that's the case it means that the Republicans would have to submit a replacement plan as part of the Obamacare repeal vote. And such a plan would either have to be revenue neutral or it could not be passed with reconciliation. If it can't be passed with reconciliation the Dems will filibuster it. If it is revenue neutral then it would be functionally equivalent to Obamacare but with a different name. And Obama really doesn't give a shit what you call it. Call it ReaganCare. Call it FuckObamaTheMuslimCare. If it's functionally equivalent to Obamacare that's a victory. And the Republicans go home and declare that Obamacare was repealed and this new thing (which happens to do the same stuff) is so much better.
So repeal-and-replace-immediately is what to watch for. Repeal-and-delay is the disaster in waiting.
posted by Justinian at 12:30 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
So repeal-and-replace-immediately is what to watch for. Repeal-and-delay is the disaster in waiting.
posted by Justinian at 12:30 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sorry I can't resist -- Metafilter: There's no shortage of superegos and depressives
posted by en forme de poire at 1:01 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 1:01 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
And MAD Magazine gets in on the act...
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I know it's been a long day with a lot of WTF, but I still keep coming back to wondering who the heck thought "oh yeah, this guy in Dubai offered me a $2 billion deal over the weekend, but I totally turned him down; it's all good" was supposed to make us feel better about conflicts of interest.
posted by zachlipton at 2:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
"I know it's been a long day with a lot of WTF, but I still keep coming back to wondering who the heck thought "oh yeah, this guy in Dubai offered me a $2 billion deal over the weekend, but I totally turned him down; it's all good" was supposed to make us feel better about conflicts of interest."
No, it's all good. Now exactly the same financiers would have to participate in a US domestic project with the Trump Organisation through a US shell company, thus avoiding all conflicts whilst (again) Donald carefully avoided any discussion of the deal with any of his children in his very much non-conflicting roles as domestic policy President of the state issuing licences, the foreign policy executive of the USA when dealing with the counterparties when they are not using the US shell company, relative of at least two of the TO C-level roles including the CEO, and biggest share holder of TO.
He's the type to respect the ethical boundaries there, as we all know, AND if he ever looked like he might not I'm sure he'd be well advised by the ethics head that he gets to pick himself. Did you know it's impossible for the President to have a conflict of interest? I heard that on the TV somewhere.
posted by jaduncan at 3:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, it's all good. Now exactly the same financiers would have to participate in a US domestic project with the Trump Organisation through a US shell company, thus avoiding all conflicts whilst (again) Donald carefully avoided any discussion of the deal with any of his children in his very much non-conflicting roles as domestic policy President of the state issuing licences, the foreign policy executive of the USA when dealing with the counterparties when they are not using the US shell company, relative of at least two of the TO C-level roles including the CEO, and biggest share holder of TO.
He's the type to respect the ethical boundaries there, as we all know, AND if he ever looked like he might not I'm sure he'd be well advised by the ethics head that he gets to pick himself. Did you know it's impossible for the President to have a conflict of interest? I heard that on the TV somewhere.
posted by jaduncan at 3:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, or they/any other foreign national could just invest directly in the TO. That would also be allowed according to the ethics rules he just set out, since it's not direct income from a foreign government.
posted by jaduncan at 3:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jaduncan at 3:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think that Trump could be blackmailed with videos of sex with Russian prostitutes.
He'd deflect it in minutes by saying it was all consensual. So nothing illegal, whereas this taping the stuff was totally illegal and so is airing it. If money exchanged hands, well, he's just a generous man who likes to make gifts, and so on.
But what might be truly embarrassing to him is a romp with prostitutes where he has erectile problems.
posted by sour cream at 3:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
He'd deflect it in minutes by saying it was all consensual. So nothing illegal, whereas this taping the stuff was totally illegal and so is airing it. If money exchanged hands, well, he's just a generous man who likes to make gifts, and so on.
But what might be truly embarrassing to him is a romp with prostitutes where he has erectile problems.
posted by sour cream at 3:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure it is illegal for the Russian security services to tape things. I don't know what their legal standard is, but it certainly is a de facto norm.
What is a felony is transferring money from Russian banks to Trump's associates in the US. The status of that investigation is unclear.
posted by tel3path at 3:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
What is a felony is transferring money from Russian banks to Trump's associates in the US. The status of that investigation is unclear.
posted by tel3path at 3:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's Julia Ioffe in The Atlantic on how kompromat works.
posted by rory at 4:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rory at 4:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
What is a felony is transferring money from Russian banks to Trump's associates in the US.
No felony. You're the felony.
posted by sour cream at 4:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
No felony. You're the felony.
posted by sour cream at 4:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
Distracted by fluff, but I envision Bruce Springsteen's performance at Trump's inaugural do becoming the stuff of common knowledge, forwarded emails and fond folk memory. No amount of contradiction by facts or "fake news", nor denials by The Backsliding Boss afterwards will change that.
(Wish I'd been there, I heard it was great!)
posted by comealongpole at 4:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Wish I'd been there, I heard it was great!)
posted by comealongpole at 4:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fictional or not, the Trump dossier affair is another win for Putin
Simon Tisdall at the Guardian.
There is just no way Putin doesn't win from this. Also, Tisdall words it carefully, but look at Trumps reaction. If I was told by intelligence that Russia was out to blackmail me, I'd be worried and I'd be furious, with Russia, not with intelligence. That is the normal human reaction and normally Trump can't stand even the smallest insult. In this case Trump continues to praise Putin. It makes no sense at all.
posted by mumimor at 4:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Simon Tisdall at the Guardian.
There is just no way Putin doesn't win from this. Also, Tisdall words it carefully, but look at Trumps reaction. If I was told by intelligence that Russia was out to blackmail me, I'd be worried and I'd be furious, with Russia, not with intelligence. That is the normal human reaction and normally Trump can't stand even the smallest insult. In this case Trump continues to praise Putin. It makes no sense at all.
posted by mumimor at 4:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
In this case Trump continues to praise Putin. It makes no sense at all.
It makes perfect sense. Just not the way that he'd like it to make sense.
posted by jaduncan at 4:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
It makes perfect sense. Just not the way that he'd like it to make sense.
posted by jaduncan at 4:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
If I had a gun to my head, I also wouldn't be antagonising the man with the gun.
posted by jaduncan at 5:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 5:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think that Trump could be blackmailed with videos of sex with Russian prostitutes.
Again, the water sports are not the black mail. What's the real scandal is why he was there to be wooed with pee shows to being with, accepting untold millions from the FCB and/or the Russian mob. If the only thing in that file was a hooker pee show, he'd probably put that out himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Again, the water sports are not the black mail. What's the real scandal is why he was there to be wooed with pee shows to being with, accepting untold millions from the FCB and/or the Russian mob. If the only thing in that file was a hooker pee show, he'd probably put that out himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Whatever actual material is described in that report is a MacGuffin, because Trump's outward behaviour confirms his status.
posted by tel3path at 5:28 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 5:28 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
US intel sources warn Israel against sharing secrets with Trump administration
According to the Israelis who were present in the meeting, the Americans recommended that until it is made clear that Trump is not inappropriately connected to Russia and is not being extorted – Israel should avoid revealing sensitive sources to administration officials for fear the information would reach the Iranians.posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [53 favorites]
Lessons from Memphis, a graphic essay about the civil rights movement and its lessons for resistance. Written and illustrated by Christopher Noxon,
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
@joshualyman: The GOP voted to gut CHIP: a program that covers poor kids that existed before the ACA, and which was Hillary's signature program.
American "compassionate" conservatism, everyone.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:00 AM on January 12, 2017 [46 favorites]
American "compassionate" conservatism, everyone.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:00 AM on January 12, 2017 [46 favorites]
I heard the two ethics lawyers on NPR again this morning: Pointer and Eisen, I think. They both insisted that Trump has to divest himself of his entire real estate portfolio.
And I thought, You fools. He won't. He just won't. Nothing will get him to do this.
I actually think he'll lose the presidency rather than sell off his property. And rather than do that, he'll fight it legally. We're going to be in litigation over this for the next 4 years.
posted by suelac at 6:00 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
And I thought, You fools. He won't. He just won't. Nothing will get him to do this.
I actually think he'll lose the presidency rather than sell off his property. And rather than do that, he'll fight it legally. We're going to be in litigation over this for the next 4 years.
posted by suelac at 6:00 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
American "compassionate" conservatism, everyone.
Turns out they were saying "cum-passionate" all along. Easy mistake to make.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:05 AM on January 12, 2017
Turns out they were saying "cum-passionate" all along. Easy mistake to make.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:05 AM on January 12, 2017
@realDonaldTrump
Thank you to Linda Bean of L.L.Bean for your great support and courage. People will support you even more now. Buy L.L.Bean.
L.L. Bean was one of my favorite companies. No longer. Here's there's phone number 800-441-5713 the very nice customer service people can connect you with their public affairs department where you can leave a message.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Thank you to Linda Bean of L.L.Bean for your great support and courage. People will support you even more now. Buy L.L.Bean.
L.L. Bean was one of my favorite companies. No longer. Here's there's phone number 800-441-5713 the very nice customer service people can connect you with their public affairs department where you can leave a message.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
(Learning about Linda Bean and her influence on Maine, esp. the lobster industry, made during a trip last summer very interesting. Also wanted to get to El El Frijoles in Sargentville, but that didn't happen.)
posted by armacy at 6:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by armacy at 6:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Paul Ryan "Government shouldn't pick winners."
Donald Trump "Hold my beer."
posted by drezdn at 6:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump "Hold my beer."
posted by drezdn at 6:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Buy L.L.Bean.
More of the "This is not normal!" here. Has any president ever openly and directly endorsed a company like this while in office?
posted by Servo5678 at 6:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
More of the "This is not normal!" here. Has any president ever openly and directly endorsed a company like this while in office?
posted by Servo5678 at 6:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
We're going to be in litigation over this for the next 4 years.
Look for an attempt to cut off an suits via legislative end-run or a declaratory judgment action filed directly in the Supreme Court, once a new Justice is seated. (That would stretch the Court's usual exercise of original jurisdiction, and would be an immediate test of how partisan Roberts is willing to be.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Look for an attempt to cut off an suits via legislative end-run or a declaratory judgment action filed directly in the Supreme Court, once a new Justice is seated. (That would stretch the Court's usual exercise of original jurisdiction, and would be an immediate test of how partisan Roberts is willing to be.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Thank you to Linda Bean of L.L.Bean for your great support and courage. People will support you even more now. Buy L.L.Bean.
*stares at his beloved Bean boots, sighs heavily, googles "nearest industrial shredder"*
posted by entropicamericana at 6:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Thank you to Linda Bean of L.L.Bean for your great support and courage. People will support you even more now. Buy L.L.Bean.
*stares at his beloved Bean boots, sighs heavily, googles "nearest industrial shredder"*
posted by entropicamericana at 6:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
US intel sources warn Israel against sharing secrets with Trump administration
According to the Israelis who were present in the meeting, the Americans recommended that until it is made clear that Trump is not inappropriately connected to Russia and is not being extorted – Israel should avoid revealing sensitive sources to administration officials for fear the information would reach the Iranians.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:52 AM on January 12 [11 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
So smart of Bibi to support Trump over Hillary!
posted by mumimor at 6:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
According to the Israelis who were present in the meeting, the Americans recommended that until it is made clear that Trump is not inappropriately connected to Russia and is not being extorted – Israel should avoid revealing sensitive sources to administration officials for fear the information would reach the Iranians.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:52 AM on January 12 [11 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
So smart of Bibi to support Trump over Hillary!
posted by mumimor at 6:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Damn, I like L.L. Bean stuff. Hey Land's End, tell Trump off and I'm yours.
posted by diogenes at 6:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
*stares at his beloved Bean boots, sighs heavily, googles "nearest industrial shredder"*
No need for that! They have a generous return policy. Let them know that you'll be returning all of your merchandise for a full refund unless they sever any and all ties to Linda Bean and Donald Trump. They could actually go bankrupt over this.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [52 favorites]
Damn, I've been waiting 3 winters for my snow boots to finally wear through so I could justify $120 on Bean boots. Nope.
And I'm throwing out my high school backpack next time I go back to my parents house.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
And I'm throwing out my high school backpack next time I go back to my parents house.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
No need for that! They have a generous return policy.
I always made a point of not abusing their return policy, but now I think I'll be getting a shiny new backpack and jacket.
posted by diogenes at 6:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I always made a point of not abusing their return policy, but now I think I'll be getting a shiny new backpack and jacket.
posted by diogenes at 6:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
They could actually go bankrupt over this.
That would probably just force them to change how they handle returns. [Link is to a TAL segment.]
It might be enough for LL Bean fans to send an email promising never to make another purchase with a picture of their stuff attached, etc. Although it probably would've been more effective before the big holiday shopping season. (And, BTW, it's store credit only now. No cash refunds.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:30 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
That would probably just force them to change how they handle returns. [Link is to a TAL segment.]
It might be enough for LL Bean fans to send an email promising never to make another purchase with a picture of their stuff attached, etc. Although it probably would've been more effective before the big holiday shopping season. (And, BTW, it's store credit only now. No cash refunds.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:30 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, definitely don't throw Bean stuff out. They will accept any merchandise back for a full refund. The key phrase is "I am not 100% satisfied with it" or "it doesn't meet my full satisfaction."
posted by Mchelly at 6:31 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 6:31 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
That would probably just force them to change how they handle returns.
I agree (and I've heard the TAL segment). But the return policy is a big selling factor for their brand. They change that, they lose a big advantage vs. other retailers (Patagonia, etc.). I don't care if they change the return policy, because I won't be buying their products anymore. Their company is dead to me now.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I agree (and I've heard the TAL segment). But the return policy is a big selling factor for their brand. They change that, they lose a big advantage vs. other retailers (Patagonia, etc.). I don't care if they change the return policy, because I won't be buying their products anymore. Their company is dead to me now.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Land's End CEO was fired after the company highlighted Gloria Steinem)
posted by armacy at 6:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by armacy at 6:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 11m11 minutes ago
.@CNN is in a total meltdown with their FAKE NEWS because their ratings are tanking since election and their credibility will soon be gone!
Trump's Mirror in full effect there.
posted by jaduncan at 6:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
.@CNN is in a total meltdown with their FAKE NEWS because their ratings are tanking since election and their credibility will soon be gone!
Trump's Mirror in full effect there.
posted by jaduncan at 6:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
*stares at his beloved Bean boots, sighs heavily, googles "nearest industrial shredder"*
get yourself a pair of Limmers!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:35 AM on January 12, 2017
get yourself a pair of Limmers!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:35 AM on January 12, 2017
I hope someone tries to keep track of how many people straight up die because Trump was elected.
The Republicans are so evil they just want people to die with no health care, period. Because of what, spite?
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
The Republicans are so evil they just want people to die with no health care, period. Because of what, spite?
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Do you think I can record while I'm at the L.L. Bean counter? I suspect they won't allow me to return a pile of stuff, but video of them refusing returns might be useful.
posted by diogenes at 6:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by diogenes at 6:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
For now, they WILL accept it as long as you're willing to maintain that it wasn't satisfactory with a straight face. But not if you wear a T-shirt that says FUCK TRUMP and tell them it's because the owners are assholes.
If they change the policy, it'll be announced and handled by corporate PR first, not on-the-fly by hapless clerks.
And don't throw serviceable Bean backpacks, boots, outdoor gear and winter clothes away in a fit of pique. Donate them to people living outside.
Or exchange it and then donate the new stuff.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
If they change the policy, it'll be announced and handled by corporate PR first, not on-the-fly by hapless clerks.
And don't throw serviceable Bean backpacks, boots, outdoor gear and winter clothes away in a fit of pique. Donate them to people living outside.
Or exchange it and then donate the new stuff.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Well, there's the point that given the owners' association with Donald Trump, who has been accused of raping a 13 year old girl, makes one uncomfortable wearing their logo.
posted by mikelieman at 6:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 6:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Moe Szyslak (to those in the bar): Do we have a Mr. Freely here? I.P. Freely.
(into the phone): I think you need to call the White House.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
(into the phone): I think you need to call the White House.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Keep in mind that they do require a receipt for returns, and if you can't provide they'll probably just offer you store credit.
Please let us know as much information as you can about your purchase so that we can locate a record of your purchase. If we can't, we'll reimburse you with an L.L.Bean gift card for the current selling price of the item or replace your item. To help ensure fairness to all customers, we do require a receipt in certain situations.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on January 12, 2017
Please let us know as much information as you can about your purchase so that we can locate a record of your purchase. If we can't, we'll reimburse you with an L.L.Bean gift card for the current selling price of the item or replace your item. To help ensure fairness to all customers, we do require a receipt in certain situations.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on January 12, 2017
LL BEAN: Is there a problem with the item sir?
CUSTOMER: It's full of TRUMPSTANK!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
CUSTOMER: It's full of TRUMPSTANK!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Republicans are so evil they just want people to die with no health care, period. Because of what, spite?
No it's pure abject greed. Every government provided benefit they cut translates into tax cuts for the wealthy.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
No it's pure abject greed. Every government provided benefit they cut translates into tax cuts for the wealthy.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spite would require they think about the poor at all.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 6:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
LL BEAN: Is there a problem with the item sir?
CUSTOMER: It smells like pee.
posted by diogenes at 6:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
CUSTOMER: It smells like pee.
posted by diogenes at 6:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
LL BEAN: Is there a problem with the item sir?
CUSTOMER: It smells like pee.
I'm imagining this as a New Yorker cartoon, the interaction taking place at a customer service window.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
CUSTOMER: It smells like pee.
I'm imagining this as a New Yorker cartoon, the interaction taking place at a customer service window.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Someone should draw it exactly like that and slap it on Facebook for sharing. Probably as effective as anything else these days.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
L.L. Bean was one of my favorite companies. No longer. Here's there's phone number 800-441-5713 the very nice customer service people can connect you with their public affairs department where you can leave a message.
L. L. Bean's chairman posted an open letter on Facebook to say that Linda is just one member out of a family of more than 50 who own the company (albeit one who donated over the limit to a pro-Trump PAC) and that no single one of them "speaks on behalf of the business or represents the values of the company that L.L. built."
On the other hand, Bean can show what their company values are by standing a stand against, say, a Labor Secretary nominee who opposes expanding worker eligibility for overtime pay, supports repealing the Affordable Care Act, and is against paid sick leave.
As Trump constantly makes clear, you're either for him or against him.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:55 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
L. L. Bean's chairman posted an open letter on Facebook to say that Linda is just one member out of a family of more than 50 who own the company (albeit one who donated over the limit to a pro-Trump PAC) and that no single one of them "speaks on behalf of the business or represents the values of the company that L.L. built."
On the other hand, Bean can show what their company values are by standing a stand against, say, a Labor Secretary nominee who opposes expanding worker eligibility for overtime pay, supports repealing the Affordable Care Act, and is against paid sick leave.
As Trump constantly makes clear, you're either for him or against him.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:55 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm less upset about a fractional owner of LLBean making an illegal donation than I am about Trump endorsing the brand. I have a lot of LLBean clothes -- now wearing them kind of feels like wearing a MAGA hat.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:55 AM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:55 AM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Did I miss something, or do we just hate LL Beain because Trump likes it?
posted by corb at 6:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by corb at 6:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
12 Republicans voted last night for Sanders proposal to allow imported medicine from Canada, but 13 Dems voted against.
People rail against socialized medicine and big gub'mint until they need to call an ambulance for themselves, I guess.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
People rail against socialized medicine and big gub'mint until they need to call an ambulance for themselves, I guess.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hah, speaking of the New Yorker, I was about to post this article from last week:
THE TRUMP-ERA CORPORATE BOYCOTT
If we are indeed entering a Trump-fuelled era of consumer activism, it’s bad news for companies. Boycotts are not just futile griping; they often work.
Trump’s victory has created a political realm in which tens of millions of people feel that if you’re not with them you’re against them. That’s a curse for companies that aim at a mass market, America’s traditional strength. It’s hard to be all things to all people in an us-versus-them world.
And this was before Trump started telling people to support a particular company. Is he not a aware that more than half the country doesn't like him and will do the opposite of what he says?
posted by diogenes at 6:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
THE TRUMP-ERA CORPORATE BOYCOTT
If we are indeed entering a Trump-fuelled era of consumer activism, it’s bad news for companies. Boycotts are not just futile griping; they often work.
Trump’s victory has created a political realm in which tens of millions of people feel that if you’re not with them you’re against them. That’s a curse for companies that aim at a mass market, America’s traditional strength. It’s hard to be all things to all people in an us-versus-them world.
And this was before Trump started telling people to support a particular company. Is he not a aware that more than half the country doesn't like him and will do the opposite of what he says?
posted by diogenes at 6:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
With the way Trump has appointed people so far, I'm going to assume assume Rudy Giuliani was somehow connected to the DNC hack.
posted by drezdn at 6:58 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by drezdn at 6:58 AM on January 12, 2017
They could actually go bankrupt over this.
Now I'm curious about how much cash they have on hand, and the cost of manufacturing and shipping LL Bean products, relative to sales price.
posted by Coventry at 6:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Now I'm curious about how much cash they have on hand, and the cost of manufacturing and shipping LL Bean products, relative to sales price.
posted by Coventry at 6:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm less upset about a fractional owner of LLBean making an illegal donation than I am about Trump endorsing the brand.
She's an heir to the Bean fortune, and she donated well above the legal limit to Trump's campaign. The company's success funds his. It's a bit more icky than "random board member".
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
She's an heir to the Bean fortune, and she donated well above the legal limit to Trump's campaign. The company's success funds his. It's a bit more icky than "random board member".
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
@RVAwonk: GOP not only voted to get rid of Affordable Care Act's contraceptive coverage - they also voted against maternity care provision.
Thanks go out to all the good little conservatives who lectured us for being hostile to religious "freedom" in the totally fair and not at all misogynist ruling in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Thanks go out to all the good little conservatives who lectured us for being hostile to religious "freedom" in the totally fair and not at all misogynist ruling in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
There are probably better targets for our ire. It's not like the company itself endorsed Trump. There are nine other board members and 50 family owners and I imagine at least a few supported Clinton.
On preview, what Doktor Zed said.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:59 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
On preview, what Doktor Zed said.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:59 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
they also voted against maternity care provision.
It's because they'd rather starve Planned Parenthood of any government funds at all than take care of the babies they're so publicly devoted to.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:01 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's because they'd rather starve Planned Parenthood of any government funds at all than take care of the babies they're so publicly devoted to.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:01 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are probably better targets for our ire.
Don't worry, I've got ire to burn.
posted by diogenes at 7:02 AM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Don't worry, I've got ire to burn.
posted by diogenes at 7:02 AM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
There are probably better targets for our ire. It's not like the company itself endorsed Trump.
Ah, but he endorsed them. There are plenty of companies that do not have a cozy relationship with Trump that I can choose to shop at instead.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Ah, but he endorsed them. There are plenty of companies that do not have a cozy relationship with Trump that I can choose to shop at instead.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
And I really like the idea of Trump's support becoming a curse.
posted by diogenes at 7:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [43 favorites]
If a rapist/racist public figure tweets that they endorse a company, it is the company's responsibility to dis-align themselves from it entirely. "We do not endorse Donald Trump as a company and do not align with racism or bigotry in any form."
If LL Bean wants to control their image, they may do so. Or they can be silent and become another version of a MAGA hat. Their brand image, their choice.
posted by windbox at 7:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
If LL Bean wants to control their image, they may do so. Or they can be silent and become another version of a MAGA hat. Their brand image, their choice.
posted by windbox at 7:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Trump: The Anti-Midas.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Any corporation that Trump tells me to give money to on twitter had better make a strong statement against him, fast. I'm not one to call individuals collaborators just for staying silent about him, but companies are a different matter when he is promoting them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:06 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Their company and brand is now associated with Trump support, whether intentional or not. If they're okay with that and the inevitable consequences, then they should do nothing. If not, they need to actively demonstrate that they do not support him. Whining about the boycott being misguided won't help.
posted by rocket88 at 7:07 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 7:07 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Republicans are so evil they just want people to die with no health care, period. Because of what, spite?
Not just spite, there's real strategy involved. They're opposed to any government benefit because their entire polical theory is the private sector can always do everything better than government can. Successful benefits programs and government actually solving a problem that people can see and feel, like they could never afford health care but now suddenly can, undermine that entire premise showing it for the lie it is. The reason they make that argument in the first place is greed. That's it. If government can do nothing right, no amount of taxes are justified, and to the extent any taxes are justified, it's only to transfer wealth from the public coffers to private controlled companies "which are more efficient than government".
They hate health care because it's the government solving a problem. Doesn't matter that that problem is people dying in the streets, any government solution reduces both the rationale for voting Republican as the anti government party, and their opportunity to further loot the public treasury and use the police power to enact forcible wealth transfers from the 99% to the already rich.
It's not only spite. It's structured evil.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
Not just spite, there's real strategy involved. They're opposed to any government benefit because their entire polical theory is the private sector can always do everything better than government can. Successful benefits programs and government actually solving a problem that people can see and feel, like they could never afford health care but now suddenly can, undermine that entire premise showing it for the lie it is. The reason they make that argument in the first place is greed. That's it. If government can do nothing right, no amount of taxes are justified, and to the extent any taxes are justified, it's only to transfer wealth from the public coffers to private controlled companies "which are more efficient than government".
They hate health care because it's the government solving a problem. Doesn't matter that that problem is people dying in the streets, any government solution reduces both the rationale for voting Republican as the anti government party, and their opportunity to further loot the public treasury and use the police power to enact forcible wealth transfers from the 99% to the already rich.
It's not only spite. It's structured evil.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
Booker (D-NJ) - 2020
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID YOU WOULD HELP DESTROY THE PHARMA PROFITS NOT PROTECT THEM! BRING HEALTHCARE COSTS DOWN NOT RAISE THEM!
posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID YOU WOULD HELP DESTROY THE PHARMA PROFITS NOT PROTECT THEM! BRING HEALTHCARE COSTS DOWN NOT RAISE THEM!
posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Did I miss something, or do we just hate LL Beain because Trump likes it?
Hi.
I worked for L.L.Bean for 18 years. I still have many friends, and family, that work for Bean. This is not surprising, because Bean is the 5th largest employer in Maine (I just looked it up) employing somewhere between 4 and 5 thousand people.
Watching you all decide that you hate the company now and want to see it go bankrupt, all because of fucking Linda Bean -- who pretty much everyone in Maine hates, and who has run for public office several times and always failed -- makes me want to throw up a little.
Bean is a family owned company, with about 50 shareholders, largely related to good old L.L. (A few shareholders are related to families that helped him start the company, and they have given away a few shares to charitable institutions along the way.) Ten family members sit on the board -- Linda is one of these, and has been for years, likely due to her seniority in age in the family pecking order -- and they meet about twice a year in a pro-forma way to approve financials and whatnot. Linda is not now, and has never been since I started there 30+ years ago, an employee of the company or involved in day to day operations.
She holds her shares through inheritance. There isn't any mechanism to fire her, although I suppose they might be able to find a way to kick her off the board. Local press estimates that she owns some amount less than 15% of the company, and that wouldn't change if she was taken off the board.
The L.L.Bean, inc. I know is (quietly) one of the most progressive companies around. They're deeply involved in conservation charities and fighting homelessness, and work closely with the local Somali immigrant community to give good job to new arrivals. The company publicly stood up for marriage equality during the state vote on the subject in both 2009 and 2012 -- a significant break with their tradition of trying to stay out of big political issues. They offered benefits to same sex couples long before it was a thing on the national stage, and make an effort to recruit many people with disabilities to work for them (and make it easy for them to do so, including offering home agent work). They also fight to keep manufacturing jobs here in Maine -- where the boots are still made, despite tremendous pressure to move overseas -- and support Maine and US based vendors even when it doesn't always make economic sense to do so.
So, yeah, Linda is odious. But given that the company can't disinherit her or force her to divest, I'm not sure what people hope to accomplish by wishing for the company to go bankrupt. Put thousands of people -- largely progressive people (Clinton won the town of Freeport by a margin of 2-1, and 75% of voters in nearby Portland -- where many employees live -- also voted for her) out of work in a state where it is tough to get a good job?
On a more personal note, I used to be one of the CS agents you would call to talk to for orders and whatnot. I hope I don't have to put forth my Mefi credentials here. So, I'm asking you, if you do feel that you need to call, don't be a jerk, because you're likely talking to someone who hates Linda and Trump as much (if not more) than you do.
posted by anastasiav at 7:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [178 favorites]
Hi.
I worked for L.L.Bean for 18 years. I still have many friends, and family, that work for Bean. This is not surprising, because Bean is the 5th largest employer in Maine (I just looked it up) employing somewhere between 4 and 5 thousand people.
Watching you all decide that you hate the company now and want to see it go bankrupt, all because of fucking Linda Bean -- who pretty much everyone in Maine hates, and who has run for public office several times and always failed -- makes me want to throw up a little.
Bean is a family owned company, with about 50 shareholders, largely related to good old L.L. (A few shareholders are related to families that helped him start the company, and they have given away a few shares to charitable institutions along the way.) Ten family members sit on the board -- Linda is one of these, and has been for years, likely due to her seniority in age in the family pecking order -- and they meet about twice a year in a pro-forma way to approve financials and whatnot. Linda is not now, and has never been since I started there 30+ years ago, an employee of the company or involved in day to day operations.
She holds her shares through inheritance. There isn't any mechanism to fire her, although I suppose they might be able to find a way to kick her off the board. Local press estimates that she owns some amount less than 15% of the company, and that wouldn't change if she was taken off the board.
The L.L.Bean, inc. I know is (quietly) one of the most progressive companies around. They're deeply involved in conservation charities and fighting homelessness, and work closely with the local Somali immigrant community to give good job to new arrivals. The company publicly stood up for marriage equality during the state vote on the subject in both 2009 and 2012 -- a significant break with their tradition of trying to stay out of big political issues. They offered benefits to same sex couples long before it was a thing on the national stage, and make an effort to recruit many people with disabilities to work for them (and make it easy for them to do so, including offering home agent work). They also fight to keep manufacturing jobs here in Maine -- where the boots are still made, despite tremendous pressure to move overseas -- and support Maine and US based vendors even when it doesn't always make economic sense to do so.
So, yeah, Linda is odious. But given that the company can't disinherit her or force her to divest, I'm not sure what people hope to accomplish by wishing for the company to go bankrupt. Put thousands of people -- largely progressive people (Clinton won the town of Freeport by a margin of 2-1, and 75% of voters in nearby Portland -- where many employees live -- also voted for her) out of work in a state where it is tough to get a good job?
On a more personal note, I used to be one of the CS agents you would call to talk to for orders and whatnot. I hope I don't have to put forth my Mefi credentials here. So, I'm asking you, if you do feel that you need to call, don't be a jerk, because you're likely talking to someone who hates Linda and Trump as much (if not more) than you do.
posted by anastasiav at 7:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [178 favorites]
The Senate's hearing on Mattis is underway. [CSPAN]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:16 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:16 AM on January 12, 2017
If Cory Booker is supposed to be our savior let's go ahead and give Trump the whole 8 years right now and not waste the time and effort.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Shit, Mattis just said he's 'not current' on the Baltic situation and will 'quickly become up to date if confirmed.' Continuing to refuse to answer McCain's questions about the Baltics on that basis.
Now McCain's asking Mattis what to do about Russian aggression and Putin's atrocities generally.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Now McCain's asking Mattis what to do about Russian aggression and Putin's atrocities generally.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
anastasiav, thank you for the context. I sincerely hope that LL Bean releases a statement soon repudiating the support of our bigot in chief.
posted by lazaruslong at 7:19 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 7:19 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
AnastasiaV, thank you for that perspective on LLBean. I was trying to parse out how I feel on this one, then realized on LLBean's own twitter feed the company is thanking DJT supporters individually for positive comments, and ignoring the comments of concerned customers. I do see that as taking a corporate stance that supports DJT.
posted by samthemander at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [62 favorites]
Shit, Mattis just said he's 'not current' on the Baltic situation and will 'quickly become up to date if confirmed.' Continuing to refuse to answer McCain's questions about the Baltics on that basis.
Eh heh. So much for the 'not a politician'.
posted by jaduncan at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Eh heh. So much for the 'not a politician'.
posted by jaduncan at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure what people hope to accomplish by wishing for the company to go bankrupt.
My wish is not for the company to go bankrupt. It is for the company to disavow any connection with Trump, so that I can support them for doing so.
The current status is that a board member made illegal donations to Trump's campaign, and the PEOTUS then promoted her brand on Twitter. This basically sends a message: campaign donations equal endorsements and free advertising from the president. My concerns are a lot bigger than the LL Bean bottom line, even though I think it is great that they are progressive internally and in their region.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [49 favorites]
My wish is not for the company to go bankrupt. It is for the company to disavow any connection with Trump, so that I can support them for doing so.
The current status is that a board member made illegal donations to Trump's campaign, and the PEOTUS then promoted her brand on Twitter. This basically sends a message: campaign donations equal endorsements and free advertising from the president. My concerns are a lot bigger than the LL Bean bottom line, even though I think it is great that they are progressive internally and in their region.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [49 favorites]
The L.L.Bean, inc. I know is (quietly) one of the most progressive companies around.
There is no such thing as being quietly progressive anymore. They can issue a statement in response to Trump's tweets and risk the ire of Trump supporters, or they can do nothing and risk the ire of Trump haters. There is no middle. There is Trump and there is resistance to Trump. I get that it stinks for the company and employees who may want no part it this. Trust me, I'd like to remove myself from this narrative as well. But this is the world we live in now.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [72 favorites]
There is no such thing as being quietly progressive anymore. They can issue a statement in response to Trump's tweets and risk the ire of Trump supporters, or they can do nothing and risk the ire of Trump haters. There is no middle. There is Trump and there is resistance to Trump. I get that it stinks for the company and employees who may want no part it this. Trust me, I'd like to remove myself from this narrative as well. But this is the world we live in now.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [72 favorites]
Oh gross. Yeah, samthemander is right. They are thanking all the Trump supporters on their twitter for their "kind words". Yep, they can go fuck themselves.
posted by lazaruslong at 7:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 7:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Israel should avoid revealing sensitive sources to administration officials for fear the information would reach the Iranians.
This is good advice for all non-US nations for the foreseeable. Don't tell Donny anything you don't want anyone else to hear.
We're just going to be a giant block of stupid the rest of the world has to route around while he's in charge.
posted by emjaybee at 7:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is good advice for all non-US nations for the foreseeable. Don't tell Donny anything you don't want anyone else to hear.
We're just going to be a giant block of stupid the rest of the world has to route around while he's in charge.
posted by emjaybee at 7:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Who sez Trump can't get A-list talent? Marie Osmond Is Willing to Perform at Donald Trump’s Inauguration
Hopefully she'll sing the Donny and Marie hit The Umbrella Song
On the rich side of town lives a boy no one knows
In his shiny shoes and his fancy clothes
He’s got everything he needs if he wants to succeed
But no one even cares that he’s alive
And when the rain comes down he’s never getting wet...
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hopefully she'll sing the Donny and Marie hit The Umbrella Song
On the rich side of town lives a boy no one knows
In his shiny shoes and his fancy clothes
He’s got everything he needs if he wants to succeed
But no one even cares that he’s alive
And when the rain comes down he’s never getting wet...
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
McCain: General Mattis, blood for the blood god?
Mattis: Hey I'm supposed to be the Mad Dog here okay
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mattis: Hey I'm supposed to be the Mad Dog here okay
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bennet (D-CO) - I'd want to read more about whey he voted against the Canada drug proposal. So far, I've been happy with him as a congressman.
posted by bibliowench at 7:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bibliowench at 7:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
An anti-trump boycott list would be pretty amazing.
Get individual companies to sign on to a list that is specficially 'Anti trump, anti trumpism'
Companies that refuse to do so....let see how the chips fall.
posted by ian1977 at 7:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Get individual companies to sign on to a list that is specficially 'Anti trump, anti trumpism'
Companies that refuse to do so....let see how the chips fall.
posted by ian1977 at 7:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Personally I'd be embarrassed to accept words of support from someone who used the handle "NoFenceJumpers," much less someone who thinks any behavior is OK as long as it isn't technically illegal. I certainly wouldn't broadcast those kudos.
posted by samthemander at 7:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 7:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The L.L.Bean, inc. I know is (quietly) one of the most progressive companies around.
Great, then I fully expect them to seize this moment and make a public statement from them denouncing the endorsement of a racist/rapist
People continuing to think this is still about "politics" - that there is still some chance that a company is going to "offend" their republican customer base = normalization. It's not a game any more. Speak out against the rapist/racist-in-chief, or go sit in the corner with the rest of the deplorables if you think their money and their alignment is that important. Here's where we really get to see how progressive they are.
posted by windbox at 7:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
Great, then I fully expect them to seize this moment and make a public statement from them denouncing the endorsement of a racist/rapist
People continuing to think this is still about "politics" - that there is still some chance that a company is going to "offend" their republican customer base = normalization. It's not a game any more. Speak out against the rapist/racist-in-chief, or go sit in the corner with the rest of the deplorables if you think their money and their alignment is that important. Here's where we really get to see how progressive they are.
posted by windbox at 7:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
Oh, I guess it makes sense that NJ reps wouldn't go for importing pharma from Canada. I actually wonder how popular that idea is amongst the residents of NJ, many of whom I assume work for pharmaceutical companies.
posted by birdheist at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by birdheist at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shit, Mattis just said he's 'not current' on the Baltic situation and will 'quickly become up to date if confirmed.' Continuing to refuse to answer McCain's questions about the Baltics on that basis.
So to review: the only reason we're considering this a non-disastrous appointment is because we think he might possibly attempt a military coup if Trump orders him to nuke CNN HQ, right?
edit: boy I hope you're right, corb
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
So to review: the only reason we're considering this a non-disastrous appointment is because we think he might possibly attempt a military coup if Trump orders him to nuke CNN HQ, right?
edit: boy I hope you're right, corb
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mattis just said he's 'not current' on the Baltic situation and will 'quickly become up to date if confirmed
I'm on the go, so didn't hear the wording, but it sounds like possibly a responsible answer for everything but CENTCOM, as he likely hasn't received classified briefing in years.
posted by corb at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm on the go, so didn't hear the wording, but it sounds like possibly a responsible answer for everything but CENTCOM, as he likely hasn't received classified briefing in years.
posted by corb at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
So is there a "no really this is a good thing" reason for so many Dems to vote against buying drugs from Canada? Or a reason why the usual lockstep Republicans are for it? I feel like I don't know the story to this.
posted by emjaybee at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 7:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
MATTIS: "We have to realize the reality of what Russia is up to.....and recognize that there will increasingly be situations where we have to confront Russia."
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:28 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:28 AM on January 12, 2017
There are some businesses so entwined with life as well as Trump that its difficult-to-impossible to avoid them.
Thiel makes me feel gross every time I use PayPal, for example, but it's incredibly pervasive online and near-impossible to avoid. I had to use it to make an account here, for example.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Thiel makes me feel gross every time I use PayPal, for example, but it's incredibly pervasive online and near-impossible to avoid. I had to use it to make an account here, for example.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm on the go, so didn't hear the wording, but it sounds like possibly a responsible answer for everything but CENTCOM, as he likely hasn't received classified briefing in years.
That would be appropriate if he was appearing in a military capacity -- but he wasn't being asked to give an off the cuff status of forces briefing. He was being asked to comment on a current geopolitical policy challenge, in broad terms. As an incoming SECDEF. It was an obvious, if polite dodge. Confidential material wouldn't be discussed in a public hearing anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
That would be appropriate if he was appearing in a military capacity -- but he wasn't being asked to give an off the cuff status of forces briefing. He was being asked to comment on a current geopolitical policy challenge, in broad terms. As an incoming SECDEF. It was an obvious, if polite dodge. Confidential material wouldn't be discussed in a public hearing anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm on the go, so didn't hear the wording, but it sounds like possibly a responsible answer for everything but CENTCOM, as he likely hasn't received classified briefing in years.
I agree, but this isn't an audience of people who are wanting a classified information related response. They're wanting to know the broad geopolitical views of the nominee, and Mathis isn't so ill-informed that he isn't aware of the broad strokes of the situation.
posted by jaduncan at 7:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I agree, but this isn't an audience of people who are wanting a classified information related response. They're wanting to know the broad geopolitical views of the nominee, and Mathis isn't so ill-informed that he isn't aware of the broad strokes of the situation.
posted by jaduncan at 7:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
We've been playing Good Company - Bad Company for a long while now. I know people who won't eat at Chick-Fil-A, for instance, and people who barely eat anywhere BUT Chick-Fil-A. I'm not a fundamentalist about it but I avoid Hobby Lobby unless none of their competitors have what I need.
"There are good people who work there and don't necessarily share management's beliefs" does ring true. But, if sickening actions and rhetoric continue, after a while I have to wonder why they ARE still working there. ("Because finding ANY job that pays the bills these days is difficult" is the obvious answer but not the only one.)
posted by delfin at 7:31 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
"There are good people who work there and don't necessarily share management's beliefs" does ring true. But, if sickening actions and rhetoric continue, after a while I have to wonder why they ARE still working there. ("Because finding ANY job that pays the bills these days is difficult" is the obvious answer but not the only one.)
posted by delfin at 7:31 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
The opposite can be true too. If Trump says 'company x' is a sad loser company. Then we should make that company's stock SOAR.
posted by ian1977 at 7:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 7:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I tried buying a bunch of Boeings, but it turns out they're more expensive than I thought.
posted by Etrigan at 7:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 7:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
Shit, Mattis just said he's 'not current' on the Baltic situation and will 'quickly become up to date if confirmed.' Continuing to refuse to answer McCain's questions about the Baltics on that basis.
Can we have the following exchange, please?
McCain: "Can you name at least one of the Baltic states?"
Mattis: *stares blankly*
McCain: "Estonia?"
Mattis: "I've never taken illegal drugs."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can we have the following exchange, please?
McCain: "Can you name at least one of the Baltic states?"
Mattis: *stares blankly*
McCain: "Estonia?"
Mattis: "I've never taken illegal drugs."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
The opposite can be true too. If Trump says 'company x' is a sad loser company. Then we should make that company's stock SOAR.
This happens - see, e.g., subscriptions to Vanity Fair after he tweeted about them.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
This happens - see, e.g., subscriptions to Vanity Fair after he tweeted about them.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:35 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Can we have the following exchange, please?
Mattis isn't an idiot and can be presumed to be familiar with the general shape of NATO warplans for the defense of the Baltics. He alluded to them in them sparse response he gave. (Which was an interesting mention in and of itself.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mattis isn't an idiot and can be presumed to be familiar with the general shape of NATO warplans for the defense of the Baltics. He alluded to them in them sparse response he gave. (Which was an interesting mention in and of itself.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thiel makes me feel gross every time I use PayPal
This was the central reason why I held off on funding MeFi for so long. But once I saw there were other options available, I jumped on it. Throwing that out there in case anyone else had similar reservations.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
This was the central reason why I held off on funding MeFi for so long. But once I saw there were other options available, I jumped on it. Throwing that out there in case anyone else had similar reservations.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
*looks at 40 dollar sketchers i've been wearing for years*
that's it - i'm going to ask my boss for a raise so i can afford to buy l l bean boots so i can boycott them
posted by pyramid termite at 7:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
that's it - i'm going to ask my boss for a raise so i can afford to buy l l bean boots so i can boycott them
posted by pyramid termite at 7:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
The stream I'm watching doesn't show who is questioning, so it's hard to follow, but someone is certainly trying to provoke him with his remarks about Israel. I'm kind of loving every time he reminds that we actually have Arab allies as well.
posted by corb at 7:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, re LL Bean, how am I supposed to use most of the products I own from them when the National Parks are sold off, the ocean swallows up the place I live, and the midwest is covered in oil from a pipeline spill? They are primarily an outdoor recreation company. Their board should not be associating with climate change denialism and wilderness privatization. It's bad for business.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [50 favorites]
Mattis now giving a full throated endorsement of NATO.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:44 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:44 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
I actually wonder how popular that idea is amongst the residents of NJ, many of whom I assume work for pharmaceutical companies.
See also: Franken and Klobuchar on medical devices, because Medtronic HQ is in Minnesota. Yet again: industries cluster in certain states, and no matter how blue the state or otherwise reliable its Dem senators, they will usually vote to protect their states' big industries at the expense of the population as a whole, because there's greater political downside for the specific than the general. File under reasons why the US is broken.
posted by holgate at 7:45 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
See also: Franken and Klobuchar on medical devices, because Medtronic HQ is in Minnesota. Yet again: industries cluster in certain states, and no matter how blue the state or otherwise reliable its Dem senators, they will usually vote to protect their states' big industries at the expense of the population as a whole, because there's greater political downside for the specific than the general. File under reasons why the US is broken.
posted by holgate at 7:45 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
For those of you who still need to work with your grief: ‘Hamilton’ Cast Bids Farewell To Obama With ‘One Last Time’ Performance
Come for the song, stay for the images of the outgoing president and staff, not least Marian Robinson and Joe Biden. I can't stop the tears
posted by mumimor at 7:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Come for the song, stay for the images of the outgoing president and staff, not least Marian Robinson and Joe Biden. I can't stop the tears
posted by mumimor at 7:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
If Trump insults / praises some company and instantly either Blue America or Red America starts boycotting the company depending on whether they accept / reject his statement (which means a ~30% revenue loss), you've effectively given Trump a free weapon to intimidate whatever company he wants.
Can you imagine Trump in a meeting next week with Apple, wielding this intentionally? "Nice company you have there, Tim. It'd be a shame if I said something nice about it and you lost all those hipster customers of yours. Or maybe I'll say something mean about it. Either way you're fucked. Now, how about moving iPhone production to Michigan? That's going to hurt your profits a lot less than if I tell Twitter that this meeting is great and you think I'm awesome."
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Can you imagine Trump in a meeting next week with Apple, wielding this intentionally? "Nice company you have there, Tim. It'd be a shame if I said something nice about it and you lost all those hipster customers of yours. Or maybe I'll say something mean about it. Either way you're fucked. Now, how about moving iPhone production to Michigan? That's going to hurt your profits a lot less than if I tell Twitter that this meeting is great and you think I'm awesome."
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Get some Thucydides up in this!
posted by corb at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
someone is certainly trying to provoke him with his remarks about Israel. I'm kind of loving every time he reminds that we actually have Arab allies as well.
That was Roger Wicker (R-Miss.). Same guy who asked about Thucydides Trap.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
That was Roger Wicker (R-Miss.). Same guy who asked about Thucydides Trap.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
PayPal was in part why I held back from getting an account here for a while.
Then again, the fact that PayPal has a near-monopoly on e-transactions on so many websites with no alternatives is an issue in and of itself.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Then again, the fact that PayPal has a near-monopoly on e-transactions on so many websites with no alternatives is an issue in and of itself.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nice company you have there, Tim. It'd be a shame if I said something nice about it
I'd have to see some evidence of second-order thinking on his part before I worry about it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'd have to see some evidence of second-order thinking on his part before I worry about it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
As a Canadian, I hate to say it but you will fail if you try to import our medication. Canada will legislate that loophole away. It's not our fault your medication is so expensive.
Oh, and btw, the vast majority of our medication isn't socialized anyways.
posted by Yowser at 7:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh, and btw, the vast majority of our medication isn't socialized anyways.
posted by Yowser at 7:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
L L Bean's Twitter feed is busy thanking obvious egg accounts.
Fuck them.
posted by Yowser at 7:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Fuck them.
posted by Yowser at 7:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
If Trump insults / praises some company and instantly either Blue America or Red America starts boycotting the company depending on whether they accept / reject his statement (which means a ~30% revenue loss), you've effectively given Trump a free weapon to intimidate whatever company he wants.
Sounds like a great reason for companies to proactively take a side before Trump takes it for them. If we're suffering, then companies ("people" if you're Mitt Romney) need to be suffering too. Maybe some of these companies could have done more to ensure the fascist authoritarian with a Twitter account wasn't elected president if this isn't the paradigm they wanted to end up in.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sounds like a great reason for companies to proactively take a side before Trump takes it for them. If we're suffering, then companies ("people" if you're Mitt Romney) need to be suffering too. Maybe some of these companies could have done more to ensure the fascist authoritarian with a Twitter account wasn't elected president if this isn't the paradigm they wanted to end up in.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
The opposite can be true too. If Trump says 'company x' is a sad loser company. Then we should make that company's stock SOAR.
Yeah, we switched back to Chobani because trumpkins were being a dick about whathisface, Mr. Chobani Guy, being an immigrant. And our next spice run will be to Penzey's, whose owner talked smack about Trump *AND* his supporters.
I have a pair of Bean boots I bought in 1987 that look like they'll be exchanged for a size up now.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, we switched back to Chobani because trumpkins were being a dick about whathisface, Mr. Chobani Guy, being an immigrant. And our next spice run will be to Penzey's, whose owner talked smack about Trump *AND* his supporters.
I have a pair of Bean boots I bought in 1987 that look like they'll be exchanged for a size up now.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'd say that the example set by an organization's social media writer shouldn't be the thing to judge them by but then I remember that @realDonaldTrump is the face of the incoming administration and, shit, it's kinda hard to say "well but don't worry about the tweets" these days.
posted by cortex at 7:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by cortex at 7:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
you've effectively given Trump a free weapon to intimidate whatever company he wants.
He's got that weapon regardless.
posted by diogenes at 7:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
He's got that weapon regardless.
posted by diogenes at 7:58 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
And our next spice run will be to Penzey's, whose owner talked smack about Trump *AND* his supporters
I love Penzey's, and have been buying from them for years, and I want to support them, but damn they have gotten expensive lately. Every time I order I think, I'm pretty sure I paid less for a lot more last time. And it's usually true, by quite a bit. Still can't live without Chili 3000, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:00 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I love Penzey's, and have been buying from them for years, and I want to support them, but damn they have gotten expensive lately. Every time I order I think, I'm pretty sure I paid less for a lot more last time. And it's usually true, by quite a bit. Still can't live without Chili 3000, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:00 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's the call script I wrote for myself for today if anyone wants to borrow it or suggest improvements:
If you're represented by a Republican in the Senate, call them. Be persistent on this one. Follow up repeatedly if you don't get a response. Again, I welcome any suggestions to improve this script.
posted by compartment at 8:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
Hi, my name is [name], and I am one of Senator [name]'s constituents living in [your hometown]. I was hoping that you could ask the senator a question on my behalf?The absurdity of this situation is really bothering me this morning. Virtually the entire Republican party campaigned in every election after 2008 on a "repeal and replace" platform. Republicans in Congress voted to repeal or defund the ACA in whole or in part something like 60 times (anyone have an exact count?), but never developed a replacement plan. It's just so horrible.
[Here’s where the staffer will say yes.]
[ I / my friends / my family members / ] rely on the Affordable Care Act for [my / their / our] healthcare coverage, and are worried about losing it as a result of the Republican vote to repeal the ACA without a replacement plan ready.
My question for the senator is this: In the seven years since the ACA passed, what concrete steps has Senator [name] taken to create a replacement plan? Specifically, I’m wondering if [he or she] has attempted to create any draft legislation, if [he or she] will commit to continued protections for patients with pre-existing conditions, and whether [he or she] would vote for any plan that has the effect of increasing deductibles or reducing coverage.
I would very much like a response on this. I can be reached at [phone number].
If you're represented by a Republican in the Senate, call them. Be persistent on this one. Follow up repeatedly if you don't get a response. Again, I welcome any suggestions to improve this script.
posted by compartment at 8:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
I am having trouble when calling with the "asking questions" part. I'm so angry. All I have been able to do is say "Tell Sen X I STRONGLY DISAGREE with (X) for (reasons)." Like I can't even stand to talk to the staffers.
posted by emjaybee at 8:07 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:07 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, it's nice to see Trump thinks so little of Rudy that he named him to an office he considers totally unimportant.
posted by vathek at 8:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by vathek at 8:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
you've effectively given Trump a free weapon to intimidate whatever company he wants.
Fuck that shit. I would have loved for the CNN journalist in that press conference to note that "You lost the popular vote sir, do you really want argue with 65 million Americans?"
No, it doesn't make total sense, but it doesn't have to, just hammer home the big facts about what's going on. Quit letting him lead the story, you're goddamn news organization that's been handed a gold mine. Get your axe and go to work.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Fuck that shit. I would have loved for the CNN journalist in that press conference to note that "You lost the popular vote sir, do you really want argue with 65 million Americans?"
No, it doesn't make total sense, but it doesn't have to, just hammer home the big facts about what's going on. Quit letting him lead the story, you're goddamn news organization that's been handed a gold mine. Get your axe and go to work.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
More of the "This is not normal!" here. Has any president ever openly and directly endorsed a company like this while in office?
No, modern presidents are generally extremely careful not to endorse products. George W. Bush, for example, was once asked "what's in your pockets?" He responded that he didn't keep anything in his pockets, apart from a handkerchief (other people carry everything he might need). When pressed he did say that he wore a watch, specifically a Timex, but pointed out that he "[was] not supposed to be endorsing products."
Further, it is a federal crime to go the other way, for a company to use the presidential seal (or seal of the US, or Congress, etc) as a sign of endorsement. (How well this would stand up to First Amendment scrutiny I don't know.)
posted by jedicus at 8:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
No, modern presidents are generally extremely careful not to endorse products. George W. Bush, for example, was once asked "what's in your pockets?" He responded that he didn't keep anything in his pockets, apart from a handkerchief (other people carry everything he might need). When pressed he did say that he wore a watch, specifically a Timex, but pointed out that he "[was] not supposed to be endorsing products."
Further, it is a federal crime to go the other way, for a company to use the presidential seal (or seal of the US, or Congress, etc) as a sign of endorsement. (How well this would stand up to First Amendment scrutiny I don't know.)
posted by jedicus at 8:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
If Trump tells you to dance a jig, and you respond by dancing the polka, you're still dancing at Trump's command.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump names Rudy Giuliani as cybersecurity adviser
Hahaha hahaha hahaha *chokes on bile*
First, @president is throwing him the smallest bone possible.
Second, oh I feel for anyone who has to explain the cyber to him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hahaha hahaha hahaha *chokes on bile*
First, @president is throwing him the smallest bone possible.
Second, oh I feel for anyone who has to explain the cyber to him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
To get your blood pressure even higher this morning.
4 pieces of evidence showing FBI Director James Comey cost Clinton the election
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
4 pieces of evidence showing FBI Director James Comey cost Clinton the election
posted by chris24 at 8:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Casey (D-PA) - 2018
Naturally. Of course, given that PA has become a reliably Republican state I see this seat turning R whether Casey's primaried or not.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Naturally. Of course, given that PA has become a reliably Republican state I see this seat turning R whether Casey's primaried or not.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
If Trump tells you to dance a jig, and you respond by dancing the polka, you're still dancing at Trump's command.
That's catchy, but it doesn't make any sense.
posted by diogenes at 8:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
That's catchy, but it doesn't make any sense.
posted by diogenes at 8:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
If Trump tells you to dance a jig, and you respond by dancing the polka, you're still dancing at Trump's command.
If you're gonna be dancing anyway, it's better to be doing the polka and getting others to do likewise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you're gonna be dancing anyway, it's better to be doing the polka and getting others to do likewise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
"is there anything inmate about women or LGBT that would allow you to believe they could not be a part of a lethal force?"
"No"
posted by corb at 8:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
"No"
posted by corb at 8:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, modern presidents are generally extremely careful not to endorse products.
To see how far we've come, read a little about Harry Truman's obsolete integrity.
posted by peeedro at 8:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
To see how far we've come, read a little about Harry Truman's obsolete integrity.
posted by peeedro at 8:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pompeo says he would "absolutely not" comply with orders to reinstate torture in intel community
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Please stop calling Trump president. You are ruining the last week of our national sanity.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Pompeo says he would "absolutely not" comply with orders to reinstate torture in intel community
Translation: he will, but either with shame or under some cover of deniability.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:20 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Translation: he will, but either with shame or under some cover of deniability.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:20 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
@SteveKopack
Per pool: MARINE LE PEN is in Trump Tower right now
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Per pool: MARINE LE PEN is in Trump Tower right now
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
If Trump tells you to dance a jig, and you respond by dancing the polka, you're still dancing at Trump's command.
You do an eclectic celebration of the dance! You do Fosse, Fosse, Fosse! You do Martha Graham, Martha Graham, Martha Graham! Or Twyla, Twyla, Twyla! Or Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd! Or Madonna, Madonna, Madonna!... but you keep it all inside.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, it's nice to see Trump thinks so little of Rudy that he named him to an office he considers totally unimportant.
Well, looks like Barron has his summer job nailed down for the next few years.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:27 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well, looks like Barron has his summer job nailed down for the next few years.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:27 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
“It will not be my intention to do anything that will benefit any American” — Ben Carson, with an all-time great gaffe.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:28 AM on January 12, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:28 AM on January 12, 2017 [52 favorites]
Trump continuing to meet with the ultra right opposition in our allied countries over their elected governments.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
So are chyrons called Astons in the UK?
Yes, which is why they call James Bond's car a Chyron-Martin in the US.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 8:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yes, which is why they call James Bond's car a Chyron-Martin in the US.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 8:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Mattis: "I would consider our principal threats to start with Russia"
Man I know I should switch over to the Carson shitshow but it's just so nice to see an uncorrupted adult in that confirmation chair.
posted by corb at 8:30 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Man I know I should switch over to the Carson shitshow but it's just so nice to see an uncorrupted adult in that confirmation chair.
posted by corb at 8:30 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Damn it French progressives, don't do what we did. Come together around one of yours. Don't let another fascist win.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump continuing to meet with the ultra right opposition in our allied countries over their elected governments.
President Bannon at work with a possible a dash of encouragement by President Putin via President Manafort, Stone and/or Flynn.
posted by Jalliah at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
President Bannon at work with a possible a dash of encouragement by President Putin via President Manafort, Stone and/or Flynn.
posted by Jalliah at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
BREAKING: Obama admin permits NSA to give raw (unminimized to protect privacy)12333 surveillance to FBI/CIA/DEA/etc
This is terrible. It's hard to overstate how bad even. Instead of curtailing the surveillance state before Trump takes over, Obama just expanded it to allow every racist or power hungry local police department unfiltered access to raw NSA signals data.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
This is terrible. It's hard to overstate how bad even. Instead of curtailing the surveillance state before Trump takes over, Obama just expanded it to allow every racist or power hungry local police department unfiltered access to raw NSA signals data.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
L L Bean's Twitter feed is busy thanking obvious egg accounts.
I'd honestly be surprised if the rank and file folks working in social media understand what an egg account is.
posted by anastasiav at 8:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd honestly be surprised if the rank and file folks working in social media understand what an egg account is.
posted by anastasiav at 8:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Intelligence sources vouch for credibility of Russia dossier author..."
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:38 AM on January 12, 2017
Ex-MI6 officer Christopher Steele, named as writer of Donald Trump memo, is ‘highly regarded professional’Grauniad
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:38 AM on January 12, 2017
Elizabeth Warren: "We are counting on you."
I think Mattis is going to get his waiver.
posted by corb at 8:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think Mattis is going to get his waiver.
posted by corb at 8:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
WTF, Obama?!
posted by stolyarova at 8:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 8:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mattis will require a waiver of the law requiring civilian control of the Defense Department, going back to the founding of the Defense Department in 1947. He's a shoe-in for the House, but under rules passed in the previous session, the waiver will require 60 votes in the Senate.
Under Senate rules none of Trump's political appointees can be filibustered, but the one exception is this waiver for Mattis.
This is the time for Schumer to put up or shut up.
posted by JackFlash at 8:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Under Senate rules none of Trump's political appointees can be filibustered, but the one exception is this waiver for Mattis.
This is the time for Schumer to put up or shut up.
posted by JackFlash at 8:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Warren is secure enough that Mattis is good enough to stand up to Trump, I'll go with her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
But what does fillibustering the waiver for like the one adult in the room actually accomplish?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd honestly be surprised if the rank and file folks working in social media understand what an egg account is.
Really? The people whose job it is to use twitter don't know how twitter works? They don't have bosses who know how twitter works? They don't have a corporate PR department that can send an email to them regarding today's actions or restrict the company's twitter account access during times of PR crisis?
posted by melissasaurus at 8:43 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Really? The people whose job it is to use twitter don't know how twitter works? They don't have bosses who know how twitter works? They don't have a corporate PR department that can send an email to them regarding today's actions or restrict the company's twitter account access during times of PR crisis?
posted by melissasaurus at 8:43 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
So this is the end of the world huh?
posted by Brainy at 8:43 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 8:43 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd honestly be surprised if the rank and file folks working in social media understand what an egg account is.
him?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
him?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
So this is the end of the world huh?
Might not be the end, but we can certainly see it from here.
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Might not be the end, but we can certainly see it from here.
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
So ... Amendments to keep provisions allowing children to stay in their parents insurance and cover pre-existing conditions failed. Pregnancy is considered pre-existing again and there is no longer coverage for birth control. There is also no plan for replacement.
Tell me, Trump voters, how you're so "pro-life."
posted by Ostara at 8:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
Tell me, Trump voters, how you're so "pro-life."
posted by Ostara at 8:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
Here's Trump claiming he's always cautious about hidden cameras. Worth noting that he said those things to Billy Bush *while on a film set.*
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Total aside but this political awareness has really cut into my sources of comfortable shoes. (Ivana Trump for attractive wife-width business heels, New Balance for running, and now LLBean for boots.) I can only assume Republicans have a higher-than-average predilection for comfortable footwear.
posted by samthemander at 8:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 8:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's Trump claiming he's always cautious about hidden cameras. Worth noting that he said those things to Billy Bush *while on a film set.*
It's also Donald telling the world that there are cameras in his hotel rooms.
posted by Jalliah at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's also Donald telling the world that there are cameras in his hotel rooms.
posted by Jalliah at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
If Trump is tweeting support of businesses that have paid him, isn't he now required to label the tweet as an ad?
(Texas Rep) Randy Weber – @TXRandy14
The CNN reporter who was disruptive to the press briefing, & disrespectful to Trump-should be fired & prohibited from any press briefings.
So basically everything now is "Trump/Trump supporter tweets X, internet responds with outrage."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Texas Rep) Randy Weber – @TXRandy14
The CNN reporter who was disruptive to the press briefing, & disrespectful to Trump-should be fired & prohibited from any press briefings.
So basically everything now is "Trump/Trump supporter tweets X, internet responds with outrage."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
samthemander, Keen makes incredibly comfortable shoes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I now worry about Allen Edmonds. Will I walk around shoeless?
posted by Yowser at 8:55 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by Yowser at 8:55 AM on January 12, 2017
Here's Trump claiming he's always cautious about hidden cameras. Worth noting that he said those things to Billy Bush *while on a film set.*
I mean we know how cautious he is about admitting to being a serial sexual predator around hidden microphones. And Billy Bush.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean we know how cautious he is about admitting to being a serial sexual predator around hidden microphones. And Billy Bush.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
But what does fillibustering the waiver for like the one adult in the room actually accomplish?
The law requiring civilian control of the Defense Department was put in place for a good reason. Coming out of WWII they saw the danger of allowing the militarization of civilian functions under fascism.
When we have a fascist in the White House is precisely the wrong time to start bending the rules restricting fascism. This is another step in the normalization of breaking all rules and precedent.
Adult in the room? Just another crony capitalist. Mattis is on the board and received over $1 million from one of the world's largest defense contractors, General Dynamics. He was also on the board of the scam medical diagnostic company Theranos and lobbied hard for the military to adopt their discredited technology, putting troops at risk all for a buck.
posted by JackFlash at 8:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
The law requiring civilian control of the Defense Department was put in place for a good reason. Coming out of WWII they saw the danger of allowing the militarization of civilian functions under fascism.
When we have a fascist in the White House is precisely the wrong time to start bending the rules restricting fascism. This is another step in the normalization of breaking all rules and precedent.
Adult in the room? Just another crony capitalist. Mattis is on the board and received over $1 million from one of the world's largest defense contractors, General Dynamics. He was also on the board of the scam medical diagnostic company Theranos and lobbied hard for the military to adopt their discredited technology, putting troops at risk all for a buck.
posted by JackFlash at 8:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
Here's Trump claiming he's always cautious about hidden cameras. Worth noting that he said those things to Billy Bush *while on a film set.*
---
It's also Donald telling the world that there are cameras in his hotel rooms.
Personally I think it's Donny telling the world he's been burned before. In Russia I'm guessing.
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
---
It's also Donald telling the world that there are cameras in his hotel rooms.
Personally I think it's Donny telling the world he's been burned before. In Russia I'm guessing.
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
So what exactly are you allowed to do when someone tries to murder you? Legally speaking, I mean. There are a bunch of Republicans in our government literally voting to kill people who rely on the ACA for lifesaving medicine and treatments; what recourse do their targets have? If I was somebody who was being marked for murder by a group of people I would like to know that there was something I could do in self-defense.
posted by IAmUnaware at 9:02 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by IAmUnaware at 9:02 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'd honestly be surprised if the rank and file folks working in social media understand what an egg account is.
What tiny amount of judgment that LLBean doesn't seem to have does it take to just not publicly thank someone calling themselves NoFenceJumpers?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
What tiny amount of judgment that LLBean doesn't seem to have does it take to just not publicly thank someone calling themselves NoFenceJumpers?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Apparently, Turkish radio played a translation of the Trump/Acosta exchange from yesterday's press conference. Then Erdogan praised Trump for "putting (@CNN's @acosta) in his place."
This is the kind of thing that makes it impossible for us to suggest other countries maybe try a touch of press freedom.
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
This is the kind of thing that makes it impossible for us to suggest other countries maybe try a touch of press freedom.
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
Again, my main focus right now is not dying in nuclear Armageddon. They're all crony capitalists. I'd just like to live another four years so we can smash the system at a later date.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
The people whose job it is to use twitter don't know how twitter works? They don't have bosses who know how twitter works? They don't have a corporate PR department that can send an email regarding today's actions or restrict the company's twitter account access during times of PR crisis?
You'd be very surprised.
"The people whose job it is to use twitter" in customer contact probably don't use twitter much in their personal life. (I'm sure some of them do, but the demographic for the customer care reps is not really what I would think of as a hard core twitter user.) They've been trained to interact with customers on twitter largely from a customer care standpoint (look for @s, thank people who are saying generic nice things, reach out to people who are saying negative things to try and resolve those -- generally product and service issues -- offline). They are essentially CS reps who are interacting via Twitter/FB instead of via the phone. The demographic skews older, and many of them probably are home agents. They're not PR people working in some new media hub. They're people who are watching for customer service issues.
My guess is that its a complete shitshow there right now. LLB as a company is traditionally a boat that is slow to turn, and they've never faced anything remotely like this from a PR standpoint. The Public Relations staff is mostly focused on marketing and dealing with nonprofit donation requests, not politics because Bean has historically stood soundly on their No Comment policy when it came to political things. They are in no means agile enough to turn on a dime in response to something as huge as this.
I'm certain that corporate PR has issued something to front line contact folks that says "If people contact you about the Trump thing, thank them for sharing their views and refer their comments to us for a response." This has almost always been their response for the kind of smaller issues (ie: overseas manufacturing, the aforementioned support of marriage equality) in the past.
The LLB management and leadership team is not huge, and most of the higher echelon PR people have been there for a really long time. They started working for the company in a different era, but their experience has been just fine for the way most people use twitter to reach out to the company. It has just been in the past couple of years that the folks who handle social media and email stopped being called the "new media" team.
So, I don't think it is far fetched at all that the front line folks (who, my god, I'm sure they're having a really crappy day) don't know what an egg icon is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they can't actually see the icon associated with the username at all.
posted by anastasiav at 9:05 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
You'd be very surprised.
"The people whose job it is to use twitter" in customer contact probably don't use twitter much in their personal life. (I'm sure some of them do, but the demographic for the customer care reps is not really what I would think of as a hard core twitter user.) They've been trained to interact with customers on twitter largely from a customer care standpoint (look for @s, thank people who are saying generic nice things, reach out to people who are saying negative things to try and resolve those -- generally product and service issues -- offline). They are essentially CS reps who are interacting via Twitter/FB instead of via the phone. The demographic skews older, and many of them probably are home agents. They're not PR people working in some new media hub. They're people who are watching for customer service issues.
My guess is that its a complete shitshow there right now. LLB as a company is traditionally a boat that is slow to turn, and they've never faced anything remotely like this from a PR standpoint. The Public Relations staff is mostly focused on marketing and dealing with nonprofit donation requests, not politics because Bean has historically stood soundly on their No Comment policy when it came to political things. They are in no means agile enough to turn on a dime in response to something as huge as this.
I'm certain that corporate PR has issued something to front line contact folks that says "If people contact you about the Trump thing, thank them for sharing their views and refer their comments to us for a response." This has almost always been their response for the kind of smaller issues (ie: overseas manufacturing, the aforementioned support of marriage equality) in the past.
The LLB management and leadership team is not huge, and most of the higher echelon PR people have been there for a really long time. They started working for the company in a different era, but their experience has been just fine for the way most people use twitter to reach out to the company. It has just been in the past couple of years that the folks who handle social media and email stopped being called the "new media" team.
So, I don't think it is far fetched at all that the front line folks (who, my god, I'm sure they're having a really crappy day) don't know what an egg icon is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they can't actually see the icon associated with the username at all.
posted by anastasiav at 9:05 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Per pool: MARINE LE PEN is in Trump Tower right now
.@seanspicer tells me Marine le Pen is NOT meeting w/ PEOTUS or anyone else from transition team. Adds “Trump Tower is open to the Public”
A touch weird, though random folks showing up in Trump Tower and making like they're meeting with Trump has happened before. Sean Spicer has also lied before.
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
.@seanspicer tells me Marine le Pen is NOT meeting w/ PEOTUS or anyone else from transition team. Adds “Trump Tower is open to the Public”
A touch weird, though random folks showing up in Trump Tower and making like they're meeting with Trump has happened before. Sean Spicer has also lied before.
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Again, my main focus right now is not dying in nuclear Armageddon
I live within the Beltway, there's no way I can escape within the 26min notice window. So when I see the bright flash coming across the Potomac in the next couple years (or months), I'll leave it to you good people to make sure the blame is properly attributed, and to remember me by what will undoubtedly be my final mortal words: "but her emails."
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 AM on January 12, 2017 [32 favorites]
I live within the Beltway, there's no way I can escape within the 26min notice window. So when I see the bright flash coming across the Potomac in the next couple years (or months), I'll leave it to you good people to make sure the blame is properly attributed, and to remember me by what will undoubtedly be my final mortal words: "but her emails."
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 AM on January 12, 2017 [32 favorites]
There's a couple significant ways of looking at corporate social media:
1. As a highly-visible, high-stakes messaging platform that requires expertise and scrutiny to insure against accidental PR gaffes.
2. As a thing where you respond to customers on twitter because that's called brand engagement and somebody said we should do that.
Who you hire for the position, and what sort of skillset you require of them and what sort of training you provide them, will vary wiiiiiiiiidely depending on how your organization thinks about it. And different organizations have different marketing folks with different levels of awareness about this shit and so the results are gonna be all over the board.
Think about how so many newspaper comment sections are bad, even though it might seem obvious with the least bit of judgement that having a bunch of nattering racism and sexism and so on attached to your website is a bad move. Judgement and savviness are not uniformly distributed, and social media is still fairly new which makes the uneven distribution even more likely.
I have zero trouble believing a major retailer has someone who doesn't know shit about the deep weeds of twitter bullshit nonetheless running their twitter account.
posted by cortex at 9:08 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
1. As a highly-visible, high-stakes messaging platform that requires expertise and scrutiny to insure against accidental PR gaffes.
2. As a thing where you respond to customers on twitter because that's called brand engagement and somebody said we should do that.
Who you hire for the position, and what sort of skillset you require of them and what sort of training you provide them, will vary wiiiiiiiiidely depending on how your organization thinks about it. And different organizations have different marketing folks with different levels of awareness about this shit and so the results are gonna be all over the board.
Think about how so many newspaper comment sections are bad, even though it might seem obvious with the least bit of judgement that having a bunch of nattering racism and sexism and so on attached to your website is a bad move. Judgement and savviness are not uniformly distributed, and social media is still fairly new which makes the uneven distribution even more likely.
I have zero trouble believing a major retailer has someone who doesn't know shit about the deep weeds of twitter bullshit nonetheless running their twitter account.
posted by cortex at 9:08 AM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
That's fine and all, but the Mattis worship in some quarters is approaching cult-like behavior, which is reason enough to give serious side-eye not only at him, but the people engaging in it. He's only an "adult" compared to every other Trump nominee, which puts a huge fucking thumb on the scale. Just because he's not going to get in a pissing contest with Russia doesn't mean he's not going to start another shooting war in the Middle East or engage in shady behavior like all the rest of them. I get that he's a "warrior monk" (and boy is that phrase starting to sound more menacing than comforting) to the military, but 1) the emphasis is far more on the "warrior" than the "monk," and 2) to a lot of civilians he should still be regarded as a hothead with a bunch of axes to grind.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
It does appear that le Pen is still downstairs/in the basement.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on January 12, 2017
Trump: The Anti-Midas.
I know Republicans pretend they don't remember George W. Bush, but I for one recall how often that metaphor applied to him during those long eight years of miserable failure.
posted by Gelatin at 9:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know Republicans pretend they don't remember George W. Bush, but I for one recall how often that metaphor applied to him during those long eight years of miserable failure.
posted by Gelatin at 9:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Marine le Pen traveled to the United States to ride the elevators in Trump tower?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Alliance for Justice: Sessions’ Testimony “A Whole Lot of Nothing”
posted by XMLicious at 9:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 9:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Look, and I say this to you all with love and the same terror in your heart that so many of us have -- if you're focused on LLBean or Linda Bean as the problem, you're wasting energy that could be better used in other places.
I'm going to go make my lunchtime calls to my Senators now, and also figure out who to call about this disaster for WIC benefits in Maine.
Stop wasting your energy on Linda Bean. Trump has pushed your focus away from the things that actually matter.
posted by anastasiav at 9:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm going to go make my lunchtime calls to my Senators now, and also figure out who to call about this disaster for WIC benefits in Maine.
Stop wasting your energy on Linda Bean. Trump has pushed your focus away from the things that actually matter.
posted by anastasiav at 9:10 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Adult in the room? Just another crony capitalist. Mattis is also on the board and received over $1 million from one of the world's largest defense contractors, General Dynamics. He was also on the board of the scam medical diagnostic company Theranos and lobbied hard for the military to adopt their discredited technology, putting troops at risk all for a buck.
None of this is related to him being the type of 'adult in the room' that people are talking about. It's about someone having the actual ability and temperament to mitigate the fact that there is going to be an thin skinned, narcissist who has given example after example of vindictive, reactionary and careless thinking in charge of the most powerful military on the globe. Oh yeah and loads of fucking nukes. And a guy who has another general as one of his closest advisors and true believer supporter a miltary guy who is an actual nutjob.
But no, can't have him, he's a bad capitalist.
At this point it's is or should be all about risk management. Principles are wonderful are great but in some situations there are no good or bad choices. What is the highest risk? What could technically be fixed if things go bad? It's a hella easier to fix some waiver precedent then then Donald using the US military to massage his ego or tell people what to do cause they dare not do what the 'best brained man in the world demands'. And there's no way to fix a nuke exchange after the fact.
Risk management.
posted by Jalliah at 9:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
None of this is related to him being the type of 'adult in the room' that people are talking about. It's about someone having the actual ability and temperament to mitigate the fact that there is going to be an thin skinned, narcissist who has given example after example of vindictive, reactionary and careless thinking in charge of the most powerful military on the globe. Oh yeah and loads of fucking nukes. And a guy who has another general as one of his closest advisors and true believer supporter a miltary guy who is an actual nutjob.
But no, can't have him, he's a bad capitalist.
At this point it's is or should be all about risk management. Principles are wonderful are great but in some situations there are no good or bad choices. What is the highest risk? What could technically be fixed if things go bad? It's a hella easier to fix some waiver precedent then then Donald using the US military to massage his ego or tell people what to do cause they dare not do what the 'best brained man in the world demands'. And there's no way to fix a nuke exchange after the fact.
Risk management.
posted by Jalliah at 9:11 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
my philosophy is basically this, and this is something that I live by, and I always have, and I always will: Don't ever, for any reason, do anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Stop wasting your energy on Linda Bean. Trump has pushed your focus away from the things that actually matter.
1. This assumes boycotting takes energy, and
2. You're assuming that ensuring consequences for quislings does not matter.
I disagree on both fronts.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
1. This assumes boycotting takes energy, and
2. You're assuming that ensuring consequences for quislings does not matter.
I disagree on both fronts.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Stop wasting your energy on Linda Bean.
Not purchasing from LL Bean doesn't take any energy. We can do many things at once, including something that isn't a thing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Not purchasing from LL Bean doesn't take any energy. We can do many things at once, including something that isn't a thing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Not just spite, there's real strategy involved. They're opposed to any government benefit because their entire polical theory is the private sector can always do everything better than government can. Successful benefits programs and government actually solving a problem that people can see and feel, like they could never afford health care but now suddenly can, undermine that entire premise showing it for the lie it is. The reason they make that argument in the first place is greed. That's it. If government can do nothing right, no amount of taxes are justified, and to the extent any taxes are justified, it's only to transfer wealth from the public coffers to private controlled companies "which are more efficient than government".
They hate health care because it's the government solving a problem. Doesn't matter that that problem is people dying in the streets, any government solution reduces both the rationale for voting Republican as the anti government party, and their opportunity to further loot the public treasury and use the police power to enact forcible wealth transfers from the 99% to the already rich.
It's not only spite. It's structured evil.
And you don't have to take T.D. Strange's word for it; the above rationale was spelled out in Bill Kristol's infamous memo opposing health care reform.
Bill Clinton's health care reform, that is.
The existence of that memo being a matter of record, it was journalistic malpractice of the first water for any media organization this side of Fox News to pretend that the stated reasons for Republicans opposing Obamacare were sincere.
posted by Gelatin at 9:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
They hate health care because it's the government solving a problem. Doesn't matter that that problem is people dying in the streets, any government solution reduces both the rationale for voting Republican as the anti government party, and their opportunity to further loot the public treasury and use the police power to enact forcible wealth transfers from the 99% to the already rich.
It's not only spite. It's structured evil.
And you don't have to take T.D. Strange's word for it; the above rationale was spelled out in Bill Kristol's infamous memo opposing health care reform.
Bill Clinton's health care reform, that is.
The existence of that memo being a matter of record, it was journalistic malpractice of the first water for any media organization this side of Fox News to pretend that the stated reasons for Republicans opposing Obamacare were sincere.
posted by Gelatin at 9:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Does anybody have a good run down of the various healthcare amendments/votes from the (ugh) vote-a-rama? I've heard summaries on twitter but nothing sourced so far.
posted by birdheist at 9:15 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by birdheist at 9:15 AM on January 12, 2017
Marine le Pen traveled to the United States to ride the elevators in Trump tower?
Possible evidence of the power struggles in Trumps team. One of Donalds people arranged it. Someone else found out is all 'no you can't do that, what are you thinking?' And they're up there arguing about it while Le Pen sits in the basement.
posted by Jalliah at 9:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Possible evidence of the power struggles in Trumps team. One of Donalds people arranged it. Someone else found out is all 'no you can't do that, what are you thinking?' And they're up there arguing about it while Le Pen sits in the basement.
posted by Jalliah at 9:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
if you're focused on LLBean or Linda Bean as the problem, you're wasting energy that could be better used in other places.
Do you genuinely belivce that there is anyone -- here or anywhere else in the entire world -- who is "focused on LLBean or Linda Bean as the problem"? Truly? Sure, this is just a symptom of the problem, and treating the disease is certainly better, but that doesn't mean you completely ignore the symptoms.
posted by Etrigan at 9:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Do you genuinely belivce that there is anyone -- here or anywhere else in the entire world -- who is "focused on LLBean or Linda Bean as the problem"? Truly? Sure, this is just a symptom of the problem, and treating the disease is certainly better, but that doesn't mean you completely ignore the symptoms.
posted by Etrigan at 9:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Possible evidence of the power struggles in Trumps team.
If this is the case there's no way it isn't Kushner vs. Bannon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
If this is the case there's no way it isn't Kushner vs. Bannon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Look, and I say this to you all with love and the same terror in your heart that so many of us have -- if you're focused on LLBean or Linda Bean as the problem, you're wasting energy that could be better used in other places.
I'm going to go make my lunchtime calls to my Senators now
I already called mine today. I can do more than one thing.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm going to go make my lunchtime calls to my Senators now
I already called mine today. I can do more than one thing.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Lindsey Graham is going after Mattis in a smarmy way for not being sufficiently Republican-dogmatic, which is all the more glaring for his relatively soft soap on Sessions.
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Total aside but this political awareness has really cut into my sources of comfortable shoes. (Ivana Trump for attractive wife-width business heels, New Balance for running, and now LLBean for boots.) I can only assume Republicans have a higher-than-average predilection for comfortable footwear.
Attractive business heels: Aerosole, Easy Spirit, Sofft
Running: Nike, Saucony, Asics
Boots: Lands End, Clarks, Frye, La Canadienne
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Attractive business heels: Aerosole, Easy Spirit, Sofft
Running: Nike, Saucony, Asics
Boots: Lands End, Clarks, Frye, La Canadienne
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:23 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
We have the power to:
1. Vote
2. Volunteer and/or financially support candidates for election
3. Call or email our representatives
4. Decide what businesses to patronize or boycott based on their corporate citizenship values.
Out of those, I think #4 holds the most power and influence on a day-to-day basis. Voting and volunteering in elections is important during election campaigns, but pressuring businesses works every single day and works quickly. I've yet to be convinced that #3 achieves anything withing a hyper-partisan system but I don't recommend that anyone stop doing it.
posted by rocket88 at 9:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
1. Vote
2. Volunteer and/or financially support candidates for election
3. Call or email our representatives
4. Decide what businesses to patronize or boycott based on their corporate citizenship values.
Out of those, I think #4 holds the most power and influence on a day-to-day basis. Voting and volunteering in elections is important during election campaigns, but pressuring businesses works every single day and works quickly. I've yet to be convinced that #3 achieves anything withing a hyper-partisan system but I don't recommend that anyone stop doing it.
posted by rocket88 at 9:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
What the actual fuck?
@SenTomCotton:
.@CoryBooker attacks on Jeff Sessions are so far-fetched I half-expected his make-believe friend T-Bone to be next witness.
posted by bibliowench at 9:27 AM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
@SenTomCotton:
.@CoryBooker attacks on Jeff Sessions are so far-fetched I half-expected his make-believe friend T-Bone to be next witness.
posted by bibliowench at 9:27 AM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Senate Comity.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 AM on January 12, 2017
Finally figured out my poster for the Women's March: "New Year's Resolution: Congressional Staffers Who Answer Phones Will Know Me By Name! Call your Reps!" Long I know - but my life and passion right now. Thanks Mefites for helping me get here.
posted by dog food sugar at 9:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by dog food sugar at 9:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
.@CoryBooker attacks on Jeff Sessions are so far-fetched I half-expected his make-believe friend T-Bone to be next witness.
Seems to refer to a non-scandal scandal from Booker's early days in politics, which has stuck around for the dog-whistle value. This is Tom Cotton's attempt at dogwhistling.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Seems to refer to a non-scandal scandal from Booker's early days in politics, which has stuck around for the dog-whistle value. This is Tom Cotton's attempt at dogwhistling.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
After falling down a Google rabbit hole that started with someone's offhand mention of Evgeny Buryakov, the Russian spy busted doing economic espionage in NYC in 2015, I came across this, which - IF it's legit information, which I'm still digging into myself - might show some of the possible players and links on the financial side of this whole Trump/Putin thing. At the very least it gives a good impression of the kind of shady figures swimming around in these murky waters.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh Kansas. Not one Kansas state senator is a lawyer, making compliance with obscure statute impossible.
They've got a rule that at least one lawyer has to be on the state's claims committee, but now they haven't got any. An auto dealer is proposing a measure to undo that rule, as it appears that State Sen. David Haley, who has a law degree but failed the bar back in the '80s, thinks that studying up to take it again sounds like a lot of work.
posted by zachlipton at 9:36 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
They've got a rule that at least one lawyer has to be on the state's claims committee, but now they haven't got any. An auto dealer is proposing a measure to undo that rule, as it appears that State Sen. David Haley, who has a law degree but failed the bar back in the '80s, thinks that studying up to take it again sounds like a lot of work.
posted by zachlipton at 9:36 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
If a GOP member of Congress doesn't use the n-word in public in the next 4 years, I'll be surprised.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is Tom Cotton's attempt at dogwhistling.
It's the exact same thing as TrumP calling Sen. Warren "Pocahontas".
posted by Etrigan at 9:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's the exact same thing as TrumP calling Sen. Warren "Pocahontas".
posted by Etrigan at 9:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
This was written before the LL Bean stuff broke, but it seems like an apt response to the shaming of people voting with their wallets:
There Is Not One Right Way of Opposing Trump
To me, this means that we have a very short window between now and then to set the tone for how we as citizens respond to him picking winners and losers based on how much fealty they demonstrate to the Dear Leader. We saw how the power of economic pressure amplified the impact of resistance to NC HB2, and while some people taking some things back to LL Bean for refunds or insisting they won't buy their products might seem like a smaller response than what we saw in NC, it still sends a message to other companies that might be inclined to see what they can get by sucking up to the President-elect.
I see that as a good thing, and it takes away nothing from other efforts to oppose Trump on other fronts, so the criticisms of it here seem misguided. Yes, there are friendly and neutral people who are affected by these actions -- that's how the blunt instrument of capitalism works. I don't think anyone supporting a boycott is unaware that there are good people at these companies that do bad things. Those people are much more likely to be harmed by a bad sales quarter than anything individual citizens are doing to resist Trump's style of crony capitalism.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
There Is Not One Right Way of Opposing Trump
* Trump not only can but should be resisted on many different fronts. There should be attacks on the bad and unpopular policies of Trump/McConnell/Ryan. There should be attacks on the many ways in which Trump is unfit for the presidency. There should be attacks on Trump’s incompetent leadership. If some trivial shiny object can get the media to actually report politically damaging stuff about Trump, then push it.PEOTUS' approach of using the power of his soon-to-be office to mete out rewards and punishments to corporations via his Twitter account is among his more dangerous practices, and one that has the potential to be normalized quickly and retained after he's sworn in. At that point, he has the full power of the state behind every charter of his tweets.
* Trump needs to be opposed by a broad coalition of people. By ordinary people and public officials and celebrities. By moderates and liberals and left-of-liberals. By people whose issue priorities are different than mine and yours.
* Opposing Trump in one way does not imply that this is the only way of opposing Trump. It’s not a zero-sum game. Trump can be opposed in different ways by different people.
To me, this means that we have a very short window between now and then to set the tone for how we as citizens respond to him picking winners and losers based on how much fealty they demonstrate to the Dear Leader. We saw how the power of economic pressure amplified the impact of resistance to NC HB2, and while some people taking some things back to LL Bean for refunds or insisting they won't buy their products might seem like a smaller response than what we saw in NC, it still sends a message to other companies that might be inclined to see what they can get by sucking up to the President-elect.
I see that as a good thing, and it takes away nothing from other efforts to oppose Trump on other fronts, so the criticisms of it here seem misguided. Yes, there are friendly and neutral people who are affected by these actions -- that's how the blunt instrument of capitalism works. I don't think anyone supporting a boycott is unaware that there are good people at these companies that do bad things. Those people are much more likely to be harmed by a bad sales quarter than anything individual citizens are doing to resist Trump's style of crony capitalism.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
If a GOP member of Congress doesn't use the n-word in public in the next 4 years, I'll be surprised.
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness.
posted by Talez at 9:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness.
posted by Talez at 9:39 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
If a GOP member of Congress doesn't use the n-word in public in the next 4 years, I'll be surprised.
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness.
I'll take zombieflanders' lack of surprise when it eventually happens and raise it to this: That GOP member of Congress will not in any way whatsoever apologize for it. Not even one of those mealy "I'm sorry that you choose to take offense" things.
posted by Etrigan at 9:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness.
I'll take zombieflanders' lack of surprise when it eventually happens and raise it to this: That GOP member of Congress will not in any way whatsoever apologize for it. Not even one of those mealy "I'm sorry that you choose to take offense" things.
posted by Etrigan at 9:42 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
@zachmider
To Le Pen's right: Guido Lombardi, a Trump pal w/ apartment in Trump Tower and Mar-A-Lago membership. Involved w/ Italy's Lega Nord
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
To Le Pen's right: Guido Lombardi, a Trump pal w/ apartment in Trump Tower and Mar-A-Lago membership. Involved w/ Italy's Lega Nord
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I'm thinking the political repercussions of using racial slurs will be less damaging than not clearly demonstrating your commitment to protecting the sanctity of the white race.
posted by bibliowench at 9:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bibliowench at 9:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Disagree. I'm thinking it will continue to work the way it always has, which is that GOP lawmakers will suppress the black vote, enforce segregation, continue the prison state, empower law enforcement to shoot unarmed black people, and so on, and will point to the fact that they haven't used the n-word publicly as proof that they are not racist and that it's shocking that you would suggest they are.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:51 AM on January 12, 2017 [52 favorites]
Damn it French progressives, don't do what we did. Come together around one of yours. Don't let another fascist win.
The Socialists are going to get a kicking, regardless of who wins the nomination for the presidential election. Fillon is to the right of the centre-right and friendly towards Putin. This gives room for the FN to run to the "left", because fascists can promise any old shit as long as they're being fascist. What makes things interesting is the presence of Emmanuel Macron, who just gave a strongly pro-European speech (in English) in Berlin. I'd expect Fillon to make it to the second round, which is a choice between awful and calamitous, but if Macron can become the de facto third candidate in the contest, and the French left accepts that you don't get to vote with your heart this time in the first round, who knows? If Bayrou chooses to sit this one out and instead endorse another candidate -- he's currently speaking out against Fillon -- that also shakes things up a little.
I'm not going to say anything about polling, because polling.
posted by holgate at 9:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Socialists are going to get a kicking, regardless of who wins the nomination for the presidential election. Fillon is to the right of the centre-right and friendly towards Putin. This gives room for the FN to run to the "left", because fascists can promise any old shit as long as they're being fascist. What makes things interesting is the presence of Emmanuel Macron, who just gave a strongly pro-European speech (in English) in Berlin. I'd expect Fillon to make it to the second round, which is a choice between awful and calamitous, but if Macron can become the de facto third candidate in the contest, and the French left accepts that you don't get to vote with your heart this time in the first round, who knows? If Bayrou chooses to sit this one out and instead endorse another candidate -- he's currently speaking out against Fillon -- that also shakes things up a little.
I'm not going to say anything about polling, because polling.
posted by holgate at 9:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was on hold with Bean's customer service # for 6 minutes plus. The woman on the phone sounded frazzled but pleasant and when I explained why I wanted to be removed from their mailing list she said that "with these political calls" customers were being asked to leave a message on someone's voicemail, so I did. I was very pleasant with the CS rep, FWIW, and simply said in the message that I wouldn't shop at companies endorsed by Trump, because I do not share his values, and that his endorsement makes me worry that LL Bean doesn't share my values. Hopefully enough messages like that will get them to be a bit louder in affirming what their values are, instead of just being, "Linda Bean and her $60,000 in contributions for Trump don't speak for all of us!"
posted by TwoStride at 9:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 9:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
In regards to racism versus reverse discrimination, I basically use this thought exercise:
Let's construct a place called Racelandia:
There are 10,000 people in Racelandia.
In Racelandia, whites make up 90% of the population and blacks, 10%.
Reverse racism is racism directed from the minority to the majority: black against white.
Forward racism is directed from the majority to the minority: white against black.
We'll call a unit of racism, 1 rc.
An individual person produces an average of 2 rcs per year. Some produce none, others much more.
The average person from each group has an equal degree of racism, i.e., the average white person is as racist against blacks to the same degree the average black person is racist against whites.
From the above, we can calculate.
18,000 rcs directed against blacks. (9,000 x 2)
2,000 rcs directed against whites. (1,000 x 2)
18 rcs directed against the average black person. (18,000 rcs / 1,000 persons)
0.18 rcs directed against the average white person. (2,000 rcs / 9,000 persons)
So, a white person is complaining about 1/100th the racism.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Let's construct a place called Racelandia:
There are 10,000 people in Racelandia.
In Racelandia, whites make up 90% of the population and blacks, 10%.
Reverse racism is racism directed from the minority to the majority: black against white.
Forward racism is directed from the majority to the minority: white against black.
We'll call a unit of racism, 1 rc.
An individual person produces an average of 2 rcs per year. Some produce none, others much more.
The average person from each group has an equal degree of racism, i.e., the average white person is as racist against blacks to the same degree the average black person is racist against whites.
From the above, we can calculate.
18,000 rcs directed against blacks. (9,000 x 2)
2,000 rcs directed against whites. (1,000 x 2)
18 rcs directed against the average black person. (18,000 rcs / 1,000 persons)
0.18 rcs directed against the average white person. (2,000 rcs / 9,000 persons)
So, a white person is complaining about 1/100th the racism.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:54 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
@jbouie
In response to questions from Elizabeth Warren, Ben Carson refuses to assure that the Trump won't personally benefit from HUD decisions.
posted by chris24 at 9:59 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
In response to questions from Elizabeth Warren, Ben Carson refuses to assure that the Trump won't personally benefit from HUD decisions.
posted by chris24 at 9:59 AM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
In response to questions from Elizabeth Warren, Ben Carson refuses to assure that the Trump won't personally benefit from HUD decisions.
Hmm. Well I suppose it's interesting that he won't lie. He's a weird one.
posted by Jalliah at 10:02 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hmm. Well I suppose it's interesting that he won't lie. He's a weird one.
posted by Jalliah at 10:02 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is a small thing (look at me pre-apologizing), but of all the goings-on of the week, this is the one that most took the wind out of my sails: Mother Jones: The Sexist Chatter at Elaine Chao's Pre-Confirmation Hearing Will Make You Shudder. (Clickbaity headline, but.) If you don't want to click, it's all what you might consider benign or benevolent sexism - ribbing McConnell about marrying out of his league, etc, from both sides of the aisle. (Et tu, Cory Booker?) By all accounts Chao took it graciously, and one imagines that someone who would marry Mitch McConnell might genuinely not mind such comments (though she did keep her name and has had a hell of a career, so who knows, maybe she's seething inside). On the other hand, Chao is my mother's age. I remember how intensely uncomfortable these kinds of "creepy uncle" comments made me when I was a teenager, hell, how uncomfortable they make me now. And then I imagine being sixty-three years old and trying to gain access to governmental power, and those comments being the price of entry. And it makes me sad. There is a young Asian girl (her niece?) sitting behind McConnell in the clip, listening to all this, and that makes me sad. And even aside from the sexism, knowing that the senators we all are counting on to fight for us under this administration are on hyuk-hyuk-nudge-nudge terms with Mitch McConnell, after watching the parade of white men all week, makes me feel deflated.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:03 AM on January 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
If a GOP member of Congress doesn't use the n-word in public in the next 4 years, I'll be surprised.
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness
This is exactly true. And we will hear it, often, because Etrigan is correct. It'll just take one to break the ice..
This is a word my grandmother still uses regularly* and has no shame in doing so. I'll say that if there is anything wrong with political correctness, it is that it merely hides racists/phobes/etc in plain sight. Omitting offensive words does not change their perspective.
It has not been that many years since almost no one took offense at racial slurs (except of course those it was directed at).
*Bizarrely, this is because I have brindle coated dog, who she adores, but refers to as "little n* dog"
posted by slipthought at 10:09 AM on January 12, 2017
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness
This is exactly true. And we will hear it, often, because Etrigan is correct. It'll just take one to break the ice..
This is a word my grandmother still uses regularly* and has no shame in doing so. I'll say that if there is anything wrong with political correctness, it is that it merely hides racists/phobes/etc in plain sight. Omitting offensive words does not change their perspective.
It has not been that many years since almost no one took offense at racial slurs (except of course those it was directed at).
*Bizarrely, this is because I have brindle coated dog, who she adores, but refers to as "little n* dog"
posted by slipthought at 10:09 AM on January 12, 2017
This is Tom Cotton's attempt at dogwhistling.
When you blow so hard the damn thing explodes between your lips
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
When you blow so hard the damn thing explodes between your lips
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:13 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
@ReutersPolitics
BREAKING: Justice Department inspector general says initiating review of certain DOJ, FBI actions before election.
@ReutersPolitics
MORE: Justice Department will examine whether FBI decisions in Clinton email probe were based on improper considerations
posted by melissasaurus at 10:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
BREAKING: Justice Department inspector general says initiating review of certain DOJ, FBI actions before election.
@ReutersPolitics
MORE: Justice Department will examine whether FBI decisions in Clinton email probe were based on improper considerations
posted by melissasaurus at 10:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
When you blow so hard the damn thing explodes between your lips
um, phrasing?
posted by entropicamericana at 10:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
um, phrasing?
posted by entropicamericana at 10:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Is the Justice Department inspector general independent and not beholden to or replaceable by the administration?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
A bit of levity: Guy Reading Fake Books on Subway: Unpresidented Edition.
posted by TwoStride at 10:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 10:16 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I see your point, dances_with_sneetches, but it's buying into the framework that racism is primarily about individuals committing individual acts of racist behavior, when that in reality that stuff (though bad) is merely the symptom of a larger problem of collective, institutionalized racism, and this problem won't go away if people are simply "nicer" to each other.
This is why "reverse racism" is not a Thing, or at the very least it is a very misleading label.
When a white person uses a racial slur against a person of color, or shouts at us out of their cars to "go back to your country", or physically assaults us because of our race, they are (knowingly or not) defending white supremacy. These acts are the little bricks, the mortar and the paint that maintain the American racial system. They are the little signs in the windows of that edifice which try to tell us: "This is not your country. You are not fully American. You must submit; you must remain outside."
There is no corresponding structure of black or brown supremacy; no institutions or power-systems in this country are dominated by persons of color, let alone defended by us against whites. And so a racial slur or a hate crime committed by a person of color against a white person, while morally wrong, is not doing the same work of defending an unjust structure.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is why "reverse racism" is not a Thing, or at the very least it is a very misleading label.
When a white person uses a racial slur against a person of color, or shouts at us out of their cars to "go back to your country", or physically assaults us because of our race, they are (knowingly or not) defending white supremacy. These acts are the little bricks, the mortar and the paint that maintain the American racial system. They are the little signs in the windows of that edifice which try to tell us: "This is not your country. You are not fully American. You must submit; you must remain outside."
There is no corresponding structure of black or brown supremacy; no institutions or power-systems in this country are dominated by persons of color, let alone defended by us against whites. And so a racial slur or a hate crime committed by a person of color against a white person, while morally wrong, is not doing the same work of defending an unjust structure.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
There are probably better targets for our ire.
Don't worry, I've got ire to burn.
Trump is the ire in which we burn.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Don't worry, I've got ire to burn.
Trump is the ire in which we burn.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:21 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
There are probably better targets for our ire.
Don't worry, I've got ire to burn.
Trump is the ire in which we burn.
A big ol' ire fire.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Don't worry, I've got ire to burn.
Trump is the ire in which we burn.
A big ol' ire fire.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Chariots of Ire
posted by cortex at 10:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by cortex at 10:26 AM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
The electorate probably believes "the n-word" is just another liberal appeal to political correctness.
I'll take zombieflanders' lack of surprise when it eventually happens and raise it to this: That GOP member of Congress will not in any way whatsoever apologize for it. Not even one of those mealy "I'm sorry that you choose to take offense" things.
It's not racist, it's our heritage, you see.
posted by Rykey at 10:27 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll take zombieflanders' lack of surprise when it eventually happens and raise it to this: That GOP member of Congress will not in any way whatsoever apologize for it. Not even one of those mealy "I'm sorry that you choose to take offense" things.
It's not racist, it's our heritage, you see.
posted by Rykey at 10:27 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jay Smooth: We Need To Talk About That Donald Trump Press Conference
(Not sure how to get a transcript out of this, sorry.)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
(Not sure how to get a transcript out of this, sorry.)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, embedded power structures in Racelandia would no doubt have an amplification/attenuation effect. Let's say it's a moderate 4x gain factor. The numbers would then be
72,000 rcs directed against blacks. (9,000 x 2 x 4)
500 rcs directed against whites. (1,000 x 2 / 4)
72 rcs directed against the average black person. (72,000 rcs / 1,000 persons)
0.05 rcs directed against the average white person. (500 rcs / 9,000 persons)
Net racism differential ratio 1440:1
At some point it becomes mere statistical noise
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
72,000 rcs directed against blacks. (9,000 x 2 x 4)
500 rcs directed against whites. (1,000 x 2 / 4)
72 rcs directed against the average black person. (72,000 rcs / 1,000 persons)
0.05 rcs directed against the average white person. (500 rcs / 9,000 persons)
Net racism differential ratio 1440:1
At some point it becomes mere statistical noise
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:29 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
They are qualitatively different. You are trying to compare apples and oranges, and using multipliers won't fix the basic philosophical failure here.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
T.D. Strange: I live within the Beltway, there's no way I can escape within the 26min notice window
I'm glad I'm in Loudoun County, upwind and 45 minutes ahead of y'all *sob*.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:39 AM on January 12, 2017
I'm glad I'm in Loudoun County, upwind and 45 minutes ahead of y'all *sob*.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:39 AM on January 12, 2017
It's okay to try to make quantitative models of things, even if you have to make simplifying assumptions, to reason your way through the way the logic works.
In this case, TwoWordReview and dances_with_sneetches make a good argument that "reverse racism" is kind of necessarily a contradiction in terms. A minority just can't be very effectively racist against a majority, just by virtue of the fact that they're a minority -- they don't have the numbers to do any kind of harm to the majority even if they wanted to (and of course, they usually don't, since they know what it's like). And the existence of structural racism just makes that even more true.
I think it's a good argument and will use it if I ever find myself arguing with a racist who is capable of logical reasoning... Which, somehow, I never do...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:40 AM on January 12, 2017
In this case, TwoWordReview and dances_with_sneetches make a good argument that "reverse racism" is kind of necessarily a contradiction in terms. A minority just can't be very effectively racist against a majority, just by virtue of the fact that they're a minority -- they don't have the numbers to do any kind of harm to the majority even if they wanted to (and of course, they usually don't, since they know what it's like). And the existence of structural racism just makes that even more true.
I think it's a good argument and will use it if I ever find myself arguing with a racist who is capable of logical reasoning... Which, somehow, I never do...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:40 AM on January 12, 2017
Actually yeah you're right, and I was about to write a follow-up comment to say as much after reading yours again.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Reverse racism: When the ant steps on the boot
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:44 AM on January 12, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:44 AM on January 12, 2017 [48 favorites]
Of course part of the reason all this (gestures at dumpster fire) is happening is because white people are starting to realize they won't be the majority for much longer. So obviously this whole "democracy" thing isn't going to work anymore...
It may be that they're very aware that "reverse racism" can't do much to harm them as long as they're in the majority, but terrified that the day is coming soon when the numbers in that calculation will count against them...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
It may be that they're very aware that "reverse racism" can't do much to harm them as long as they're in the majority, but terrified that the day is coming soon when the numbers in that calculation will count against them...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh god can we please not go into racism/reverse racism arguments again. As horrified as I am to say this, I'd rather focus on Trump.
posted by XtinaS at 10:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 10:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
I mean, if people want to do anti-racism activism through math it's probably better to calculate the accumulated capital from forty acres and a mule over 125 years.
It may be that they're very aware that "reverse racism" can't do much to harm them as long as they're in the majority, but terrified that the day is coming soon when the numbers in that calculation will count against them...
Oh sure, that's definitely a huge underlying part of the backlash. All the more reason to explain that racism is not about numerical superiority, but persistent historical systems and structures that established and maintain racial inequality.
The opposite of white supremacy is not black and brown supremacy, as white racists believe: it is genuine multi-racial democracy. That is what we are fighting for.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:55 AM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
It may be that they're very aware that "reverse racism" can't do much to harm them as long as they're in the majority, but terrified that the day is coming soon when the numbers in that calculation will count against them...
Oh sure, that's definitely a huge underlying part of the backlash. All the more reason to explain that racism is not about numerical superiority, but persistent historical systems and structures that established and maintain racial inequality.
The opposite of white supremacy is not black and brown supremacy, as white racists believe: it is genuine multi-racial democracy. That is what we are fighting for.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:55 AM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
As a reminder, tech companies aren't your friends: "In 2016, the corporate PACs associated with Microsoft, Facebook, Google and Amazon broke ranks with the traditional allegiance of the broad tech sector to the Democratic Party. All four donated more money to Republican Congressional candidates than they did to their Democratic opponents."
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
I was thinking of flagging this whole reverse racism discussion. Guys, it's really not a thing. Black and Brown people are not out there planning a reverse Jim Crow. That is a sick thought, and you need to get over it.
But it is obviously "a thing" within white fear and the election of Donald Trump. Maybe someone could make a post about it so we could have a discussion? On this thread, IMO it needs to die ASAP.
posted by mumimor at 10:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
But it is obviously "a thing" within white fear and the election of Donald Trump. Maybe someone could make a post about it so we could have a discussion? On this thread, IMO it needs to die ASAP.
posted by mumimor at 10:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
I think it's highly relevant, actually, since a good part of these threads are about unpacking the underlying causes of Trumpism and figuring out strategies to combat it. But I'm happy to drop the subthread if people want, I've basically said my piece anyway. :)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:01 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:01 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
But it is obviously "a thing" within white fear and the election of Donald Trump.
It's projection at IMAX scale.
They know what's been done to minorities, and they think that if they were in the same place, they would want revenge.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's projection at IMAX scale.
They know what's been done to minorities, and they think that if they were in the same place, they would want revenge.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments removed; racism and perceptions of racist dynamics are definitely A Thing Of Currency but let's try not to start from dead scratch on it right here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:04 AM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
So is there a "no really this is a good thing" reason for so many Dems to vote against buying drugs from Canada? Or a reason why the usual lockstep Republicans are for it? I feel like I don't know the story to this.
I'm also super confused by this as well so I tried to dig into it. Here's all the details I can find:
- 11:24 p.m. The Klobuchar [and Sanders] amendment #178 passed [sic, they mean failed] by a vote of 46-52. Democrats against: (13) Bennet, Booker, Cantwell, Carper, Casey, Coons, Donnelly, Heinrich, Heitkamp, Menendez, Murray, Tester, Warner. Republicans in favor: (12) Boozman, Collins, Cruz, Flake, Grassley, Heller, Kennedy, Lee, McCain, Murkowski, Paul, and Thune. Senators voted 46-52 to reject an amendment from Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) to allow "American pharmacists, wholesalers, and individuals with a valid prescription" to import prescription drugs from Canada. (Sources: One, Two, Three)
- 11:25 p.m Senator Wyden offered his amendment #188. Roll call vote began on the motion to waive the budget with respect to Wyden #188. [Wyden also offered amendment #187 with Sanders]
- This morning, Senator Casey asserted that he "Voted for amndt by @SenSanders & @RonWyden last night to lower drug prices through importation from Canada" and when it was pointed out he voted against the Klobuchar/Sanders amendment, he defended it by tweeting he "Had some concerns about a separate @SenSanders amendment b/c of drug safety provisions- issue couldn't be resolved in 10 mins between votes", specifically "concern was provisions related to wholesalers & whether they would comply w/ safety laws. important to ensure integrity of drug supply chain."
As far as I can tell from reading the text of the amendments, Wyden's amendment is a "point of order" attempting to prevent the Senate from proceeding without considering a bill that lowers drug prices. It's a lot more fancily worded than Klobuchar's which distinctly calls for importation from Canada. Also I can't find a vote count for this one, maybe because it was just a point of order vote and got called out of order?
As for my opinion, it seems like a load of horseshit. I'm being pretty cynical, but honestly it just feels like Rs and Ds traded votes on these two very similar amendments so that it wouldn't pass, but that if Booker or Casey get called on "voting against a Sanders amendment to lower drug prices by allowing them to be imported from Canada" in 2 or 4 years, they can say "that's absolutely not true, there were some odd Senate machinations that night but I voted for an amendment backed by Sanders to lower drug prices by importing from Canada" and the issue will be dropped. The Rs and Ds who voted both ways can tell drug manufacturers and constituents "that they're voting in their interests" with a semi-straight face. Anyways if someone has more info I'd love to see it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:08 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm also super confused by this as well so I tried to dig into it. Here's all the details I can find:
- 11:24 p.m. The Klobuchar [and Sanders] amendment #178 passed [sic, they mean failed] by a vote of 46-52. Democrats against: (13) Bennet, Booker, Cantwell, Carper, Casey, Coons, Donnelly, Heinrich, Heitkamp, Menendez, Murray, Tester, Warner. Republicans in favor: (12) Boozman, Collins, Cruz, Flake, Grassley, Heller, Kennedy, Lee, McCain, Murkowski, Paul, and Thune. Senators voted 46-52 to reject an amendment from Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) to allow "American pharmacists, wholesalers, and individuals with a valid prescription" to import prescription drugs from Canada. (Sources: One, Two, Three)
- 11:25 p.m Senator Wyden offered his amendment #188. Roll call vote began on the motion to waive the budget with respect to Wyden #188. [Wyden also offered amendment #187 with Sanders]
- This morning, Senator Casey asserted that he "Voted for amndt by @SenSanders & @RonWyden last night to lower drug prices through importation from Canada" and when it was pointed out he voted against the Klobuchar/Sanders amendment, he defended it by tweeting he "Had some concerns about a separate @SenSanders amendment b/c of drug safety provisions- issue couldn't be resolved in 10 mins between votes", specifically "concern was provisions related to wholesalers & whether they would comply w/ safety laws. important to ensure integrity of drug supply chain."
As far as I can tell from reading the text of the amendments, Wyden's amendment is a "point of order" attempting to prevent the Senate from proceeding without considering a bill that lowers drug prices. It's a lot more fancily worded than Klobuchar's which distinctly calls for importation from Canada. Also I can't find a vote count for this one, maybe because it was just a point of order vote and got called out of order?
As for my opinion, it seems like a load of horseshit. I'm being pretty cynical, but honestly it just feels like Rs and Ds traded votes on these two very similar amendments so that it wouldn't pass, but that if Booker or Casey get called on "voting against a Sanders amendment to lower drug prices by allowing them to be imported from Canada" in 2 or 4 years, they can say "that's absolutely not true, there were some odd Senate machinations that night but I voted for an amendment backed by Sanders to lower drug prices by importing from Canada" and the issue will be dropped. The Rs and Ds who voted both ways can tell drug manufacturers and constituents "that they're voting in their interests" with a semi-straight face. Anyways if someone has more info I'd love to see it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:08 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Their company and brand is now associated with Trump support, whether intentional or not.
That's like saying a Stephen Harper being permitted to do a photo op at Tim Hortons implies the latter's endorsement of the Tories. It doesn't follow.
posted by the road and the damned at 11:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's like saying a Stephen Harper being permitted to do a photo op at Tim Hortons implies the latter's endorsement of the Tories. It doesn't follow.
posted by the road and the damned at 11:09 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Breitbart is spinning the Israel intel story as "Obama intel officials undermine Trump relationship with Israel". Yeah because intel agencies are just *chock full* of Obama loyalists.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
BREAKING: Justice Department inspector general says initiating review of certain DOJ, FBI actions before election.
Well that's just fuckin' dandy when a) Comey works for Loretta Lynch, she could've forbidden him to go public with Trump's dick in his hand when it actually mattered, before the election and b) this IG investigation has been where exactly for the last 6 weeks? what the fuck is the point of starting it now, 8 days before Trump takes power and kills it?
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well that's just fuckin' dandy when a) Comey works for Loretta Lynch, she could've forbidden him to go public with Trump's dick in his hand when it actually mattered, before the election and b) this IG investigation has been where exactly for the last 6 weeks? what the fuck is the point of starting it now, 8 days before Trump takes power and kills it?
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:12 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
The excuse Booker et al. gave is that the amendment would allow importation of drugs that aren't considered safe under FDA rules.
The real reason is that medical companies don't want to mix their markets because it would restrict their ability to jack up prices depending on what a given country's insurance industry is willing to pay, regardless of what the medicine actually costs to make.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The real reason is that medical companies don't want to mix their markets because it would restrict their ability to jack up prices depending on what a given country's insurance industry is willing to pay, regardless of what the medicine actually costs to make.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:14 AM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
BREKEND Wij spraken met een getuige over Trumps Golden Shower. Morgen. @Telegraaf @MrNedjerov
BREAKING we spoke with a witness about Trumps Golden Shower. Tomorrow. @MrNedjerov @Telegraaf
posted by Devonian at 11:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
BREAKING we spoke with a witness about Trumps Golden Shower. Tomorrow. @MrNedjerov @Telegraaf
posted by Devonian at 11:15 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's like saying a Stephen Harper being permitted to do a photo op at Tim Hortons implies the latter's endorsement of the Tories. It doesn't follow.
Did Harper say "Buy Tim Hortons!"?
posted by futz at 11:16 AM on January 12, 2017
Did Harper say "Buy Tim Hortons!"?
posted by futz at 11:16 AM on January 12, 2017
> she could've forbidden him to go public with Trump's dick in his hand when it actually mattered, before the election
Yes, she could have, but it would have only made things worse:
Yes, she could have, but it would have only made things worse:
I trust the problem with this argument is obvious. Had Lynch ordered Comey not to send the letter to Congress, word would have nearly-instantaneously leaked out of the Federal Sieve of Investigation. Hence, the final days of the campaign still would have been dominated by coverage of Hillary Clinton’s EMAILS!, only with Lynch being cast in the John Mitchell role of trying to cover up the wrongdoing apparently uncovered by straight-shooting, nonpartisan, FIERCELY INDEPENDENT FBI director James Comey. This strikes me as as bad or worse than what did happen. Given how close Comey’s actions were to the election, he held all the cards. If he was determined to egregiously violate department rules and norms and insert baseless but highly prejudicial innuendoes about Hillary Clinton into the campaign, Lynch couldn’t stop him; she could at best affect the form in which the information came out. And, of course, “I can’t be blamed for my grossly unethical conduct because my supervisor should have stopped me!” isn’t much of a defense in the first place.posted by tonycpsu at 11:17 AM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
BREKEND Wij spraken met een getuige over Trumps Golden Shower. Morgen. @Telegraaf @MrNedjerov
Was that tweet deleted already? Link gives an error.
posted by jedicus at 11:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Was that tweet deleted already? Link gives an error.
posted by jedicus at 11:18 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
BREKEND Wij spraken met een getuige over Trumps Golden Shower. Morgen. @Telegraaf @MrNedjerov
BREAKING we spoke with a witness about Trumps Golden Shower. Tomorrow. @MrNedjerov @Telegraaf
The universe is trying to force me to explain Golden Showers to my parents
fuckin' universe
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:19 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
BREAKING we spoke with a witness about Trumps Golden Shower. Tomorrow. @MrNedjerov @Telegraaf
The universe is trying to force me to explain Golden Showers to my parents
fuckin' universe
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:19 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sometimes, when a celebrity endorses a product, I associate that product with that celebrity. When I use the product, I sometimes think of that celebrity (and the other marketing associated with the product). Right now, through no fault of their own as a company, I associate LL Bean with Donald Trump. This make me not want to wear my amazing new LL Bean jacket ever again, which makes me sad. I don't want to be wearing a jacket and thinking "Trump" and I really don't want to buy a product from LL Bean and have to think "my purchase may be going towards a campaign donation to Trump in the future from one of their major shareholders."
But this makes me sad because I've always loved LL Bean and their products and their generally progressive approach to things. Its just now, thanks to @presidentelect's tweet, I am going to think of Trump when I see the name "LL Bean" and I spend more than enough time thinking about Trump already.
I imagine for the alleged master race of paleo-Conservatives, if Obama had said "I really like LL Bean," they would also not want to wear LL Bean anymore for the same reasons.
This is among the many reasons why Presidents need to STFU about companies.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:20 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
But this makes me sad because I've always loved LL Bean and their products and their generally progressive approach to things. Its just now, thanks to @presidentelect's tweet, I am going to think of Trump when I see the name "LL Bean" and I spend more than enough time thinking about Trump already.
I imagine for the alleged master race of paleo-Conservatives, if Obama had said "I really like LL Bean," they would also not want to wear LL Bean anymore for the same reasons.
This is among the many reasons why Presidents need to STFU about companies.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:20 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lynch also lost any ability to get involved because she chatted with Bill Clinton on an airplane for 45 minutes, which is among the stupidest things ever done in the category of "utterly meaningless, not at all significant, why does anybody care" things.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
It has gone already! However, this one was up a minute ago... bur I don't know about that account.
posted by Devonian at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by Devonian at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2017
Ex-MI6 officer Christopher Steele, named as writer of Donald Trump memo, is ‘highly regarded professional’
Typical British understatement. After working undercover in Moscow for a couple years he moved back to London & ran the Russian desk at Vauxhall Cross, the big blue & white MI6 HQ building they blew up in one of the more recent Bond films. Sounds like he was in line to eventually take over as C (MI6's Director General is always called C & gets to initial documents with a C in green ink) until 9/11 came along & pushed Russia down a notch as a priority. Not someone to take lightly.
posted by scalefree at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Typical British understatement. After working undercover in Moscow for a couple years he moved back to London & ran the Russian desk at Vauxhall Cross, the big blue & white MI6 HQ building they blew up in one of the more recent Bond films. Sounds like he was in line to eventually take over as C (MI6's Director General is always called C & gets to initial documents with a C in green ink) until 9/11 came along & pushed Russia down a notch as a priority. Not someone to take lightly.
posted by scalefree at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
BREKEND Wij spraken met een getuige over Trumps Golden Shower. Morgen. @Telegraaf @MrNedjerov
BREAKING we spoke with a witness about Trumps Golden Shower. Tomorrow. @MrNedjerov @Telegraaf
The Rob Ford parallels keep cropping up.
Just as the line above has a certain je-ne-sais-quoi in Dutch, so too did this headline in German about our then-mayor:
Der Crack-Bürgermeister gerät außer Kontrolle
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
BREAKING we spoke with a witness about Trumps Golden Shower. Tomorrow. @MrNedjerov @Telegraaf
The Rob Ford parallels keep cropping up.
Just as the line above has a certain je-ne-sais-quoi in Dutch, so too did this headline in German about our then-mayor:
Der Crack-Bürgermeister gerät außer Kontrolle
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
But what about when Nixon talked about the "great taste of Charleston Chew."
posted by RobotHero at 11:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 11:24 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, she could have, but it would have only made things worse:
Worse than the worst case scenario that happened anyway doesn't seem likely.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Worse than the worst case scenario that happened anyway doesn't seem likely.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:25 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
But what about when Nixon talked about the "great taste of Charleston Chew."
Nixon was prone to misspeaking so there was always some plausible deniability. For example, in this case, its possible he meant "Charlton Heston has great taste."
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:26 AM on January 12, 2017
Nixon was prone to misspeaking so there was always some plausible deniability. For example, in this case, its possible he meant "Charlton Heston has great taste."
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:26 AM on January 12, 2017
I am going to think of Trump when I see the name "LL Bean"
If you haven't sent that entire comment in as a letter to LL Bean, I'd encourage you to do so. It may or may not impact things, but I suspect immediate pushback may mean more than a long-term boycott for a company like LL Bean.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:31 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
If you haven't sent that entire comment in as a letter to LL Bean, I'd encourage you to do so. It may or may not impact things, but I suspect immediate pushback may mean more than a long-term boycott for a company like LL Bean.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:31 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh shit you guys. Rep Smith (D) Washington is making some really good points about the shittiness of the Senate bill on Cspan3 right now, including a failure to protect Mattis from UCMJ prosecution.
posted by corb at 11:33 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by corb at 11:33 AM on January 12, 2017
Sometimes, when a celebrity endorses a product, I associate that product with that celebrity. When I use the product, I sometimes think of that celebrity (and the other marketing associated with the product). Right now, through no fault of their own as a company, I associate LL Bean with Donald Trump. This make me not want to wear my amazing new LL Bean jacket ever again, which makes me sad. I don't want to be wearing a jacket and thinking "Trump" and I really don't want to buy a product from LL Bean and have to think "my purchase may be going towards a campaign donation to Trump in the future from one of their major shareholders."
It's not like this is a one-way street, either. This isn't something that was merely done to poor, hapless LL Bean. They could take positive action to excoriate Trump and break the association. Instead, they've gone with the "our board members/major shareholders/namesakes do not speak for us, how DARE you threaten to boycott us you horrible little people" approach. Don't weep for them.
posted by kafziel at 11:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's not like this is a one-way street, either. This isn't something that was merely done to poor, hapless LL Bean. They could take positive action to excoriate Trump and break the association. Instead, they've gone with the "our board members/major shareholders/namesakes do not speak for us, how DARE you threaten to boycott us you horrible little people" approach. Don't weep for them.
posted by kafziel at 11:33 AM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Ah, the Telegraaf's tweet was a very Dutch joke.
As you were.
posted by Devonian at 11:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
As you were.
posted by Devonian at 11:34 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've just realised... the worst job in the world will be the Secret Service detail providing cover for Trump after he's out of office.
posted by Devonian at 11:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 11:37 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
@johnastoehr
Reuters: Jeb Bush hired Christopher Steele to find dirt on Trump, according to the BBC. Steele wrote the Trump Dossier.
High-energy move from Jeb!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Reuters: Jeb Bush hired Christopher Steele to find dirt on Trump, according to the BBC. Steele wrote the Trump Dossier.
High-energy move from Jeb!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:38 AM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
If a President is impeached would they still get Secret Service? Just curious.
posted by Jalliah at 11:40 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Comey works for Loretta Lynch, she could've forbidden him to go public with Trump's dick in his hand when it actually mattered, before the election
Exactly how was she supposed to do that? Tie him to a chair with a gag in his mouth? Lock him up in the basement of the Justice Department?
Don't blame this on Lynch. This was all Comey's corruption.
The mistake was Obama appointing a Republican to a law enforcement position in the first place. There was nothing to be done in the final weeks of the campaign.
posted by JackFlash at 11:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Exactly how was she supposed to do that? Tie him to a chair with a gag in his mouth? Lock him up in the basement of the Justice Department?
Don't blame this on Lynch. This was all Comey's corruption.
The mistake was Obama appointing a Republican to a law enforcement position in the first place. There was nothing to be done in the final weeks of the campaign.
posted by JackFlash at 11:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Oh shit you guys. Rep Smith (D) Washington is making some really good points about the shittiness of the Senate bill on Cspan3 right now, including a failure to protect Mattis from UCMJ prosecution.
Why would one want to insulate Mattis from UCMJ prosecution? If anything, I'd think prosecution for his war crimes at Fallujah, subsequent covering-up of war crimes committed by people under his command, and other offenses would be a good thing.
posted by kafziel at 11:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why would one want to insulate Mattis from UCMJ prosecution? If anything, I'd think prosecution for his war crimes at Fallujah, subsequent covering-up of war crimes committed by people under his command, and other offenses would be a good thing.
posted by kafziel at 11:41 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sort of interesting county-by-county turnout data from the election. TLDR; Turnout down among Democrats, up among Republicans, relative to 2012 results.
posted by Coventry at 11:44 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by Coventry at 11:44 AM on January 12, 2017
If a President is impeached would they still get Secret Service? Just curious.
The Former Presidents Act specifically excludes persons who were impeached, convicted, and removed from office.
posted by Etrigan at 11:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Former Presidents Act specifically excludes persons who were impeached, convicted, and removed from office.
posted by Etrigan at 11:46 AM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Because the UCMJ strictly governs how retired officers need to relate to the Commander-in-Chief - in terms of public criticism, orders, etc. Apparently the bill for Marshall exempted him from this, so he would be entirely a civilian and be governed by civilian laws only. This bill does not.
posted by corb at 11:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:47 AM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Based on listening to the last few minutes of the Mattis hearing: is it possible for the waiver to apply to anybody /other/ than Mattis?
posted by birdheist at 11:48 AM on January 12, 2017
posted by birdheist at 11:48 AM on January 12, 2017
One angle no one seems to be mentioning is that Trump hired Russians to do the golden showers, when you know damned well there are any number of Americans who would have been glad to do that job. Probably, there were some who would have done it pro bono.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:48 AM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Former Presidents Act specifically excludes persons who were impeached, convicted, and removed from office.
But if you are impeached and resign before you're convicted, all good.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:49 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
But if you are impeached and resign before you're convicted, all good.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:49 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I thought Trump was blowing off Secret Service protection in favor of his own private security force made up of former police/military.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:50 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
But if you are impeached and resign before you're convicted, all good.
Legally, it has been argued that the Senate can still convict an official who has resigned after being impeached (or even before), for just this reason. It's never been tested, though.
posted by Etrigan at 11:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Legally, it has been argued that the Senate can still convict an official who has resigned after being impeached (or even before), for just this reason. It's never been tested, though.
posted by Etrigan at 11:52 AM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Comey works for Loretta Lynch, she could've forbidden him to go public with Trump's dick in his hand when it actually mattered, before the election
Exactly how was she supposed to do that? Tie him to a chair with a gag in his mouth? Lock him up in the basement of the Justice Department?
I'm not totally against that idea, just sayin'!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Exactly how was she supposed to do that? Tie him to a chair with a gag in his mouth? Lock him up in the basement of the Justice Department?
I'm not totally against that idea, just sayin'!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:53 AM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
TLDR; Turnout down among Democrats, up among Republicans, relative to 2012 results.
In line with people staying home because they thought it was in the bag for Clinton. Now that Trump is President-Elect and the Obama legacy is under active attack I really think there is a strong chance we can rouse enough of these folks to take back the House in 2018, even despite all the new suppression laws that may be on the books by then.
posted by contraption at 11:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
In line with people staying home because they thought it was in the bag for Clinton. Now that Trump is President-Elect and the Obama legacy is under active attack I really think there is a strong chance we can rouse enough of these folks to take back the House in 2018, even despite all the new suppression laws that may be on the books by then.
posted by contraption at 11:56 AM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
But what has done is run a separate, private, security force in parallel to the Secret Service.
They're the sword. The Secret Service is the shield.
posted by Etrigan at 11:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're the sword. The Secret Service is the shield.
posted by Etrigan at 11:57 AM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Piggybacking on my previous comment: apparently the Senate bill to allow Mattis to serve doesn't actually name him, per rep. Tsongas
posted by birdheist at 12:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by birdheist at 12:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Former Presidents Act specifically excludes persons who were impeached, convicted, and removed from office.
Cite? 18 USC 3056 appears to contain no such exclusion.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:01 PM on January 12, 2017
Cite? 18 USC 3056 appears to contain no such exclusion.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:01 PM on January 12, 2017
Trump national security pick Monica Crowley plagiarized multiple sources in 2012 book
Even worse, she plagiarized huge sections of her Ph.D. thesis.
Even worse, she plagiarized huge sections of her Ph.D. thesis.
Her thesis adviser, Professor of War and Peace Studies Richard K. Betts, declined to comment, as did Columbia University, which has previously rescinded at least one Ph.D. for plagiarism.posted by zakur at 12:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Because the UCMJ strictly governs how retired officers need to relate to the Commander-in-Chief - in terms of public criticism, orders, etc.
Haha, yeah, really. So you're saying that every retired officer who publicly criticized President Obama violated article 88? Yes. As a lawyer, I definitely believe this interpretation is true and correct.
Marshall would have needed an exemption because he was active duty military when chosen as Secretary of State. Not the same situation.
posted by kafziel at 12:12 PM on January 12, 2017
Haha, yeah, really. So you're saying that every retired officer who publicly criticized President Obama violated article 88? Yes. As a lawyer, I definitely believe this interpretation is true and correct.
Marshall would have needed an exemption because he was active duty military when chosen as Secretary of State. Not the same situation.
posted by kafziel at 12:12 PM on January 12, 2017
The Former Presidents Act specifically excludes persons who were impeached, convicted, and removed from office.
Cite? 18 USC 3056 appears to contain no such exclusion.
It's in the original FPA, which I can't find handily but is referenced in this 6-page PDF from the Congressional Research Service:
Cite? 18 USC 3056 appears to contain no such exclusion.
It's in the original FPA, which I can't find handily but is referenced in this 6-page PDF from the Congressional Research Service:
According to a 1974 opinion by the Department of Justice concerning President Richard Nixon’s resignation from office, a President who resigns before his official term of office expires is entitled to the same lifetime pension and benefits that are authorized other former Presidents. However, a President who is removed from office by impeachment forfeits his pension and related benefits. The ruling states thatposted by Etrigan at 12:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]The FPA [Former Presidents Act] provides certain benefits to “former Presidents.” A former President is defined in Section (f) as a person who has been President, is not currently President, and who was not removed from office pursuant to impeachment and conviction in the Senate. The statutory language is unambiguous and Mr. Nixon clearly meets the statutory definition of a former President.
Cite? 18 USC 3056 appears to contain no such exclusion.
It's in the Notes at 3 USC 102, under "Former President" Defined:
It's in the Notes at 3 USC 102, under "Former President" Defined:
(f) As used in this section, the term ‘former President’ means a person— ... (2) whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of Americaposted by stopgap at 12:14 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
[PDF of the FPA]
Someone on Reddit: Obama should resign a few days early just so Joe gets to be the 45th President for the next week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:20 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:20 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Haha, yeah, really. So you're saying that every retired officer who publicly criticized President Obama violated article 88? Yes. As a lawyer, I definitely believe this interpretation is true and correct.
Why kick up a fuss about it, then?
posted by thelonius at 12:21 PM on January 12, 2017
Why kick up a fuss about it, then?
posted by thelonius at 12:21 PM on January 12, 2017
Corey Booker says his vote against cheap Canadian drugs was principled & concerned a lack of safety controls in the bill, not because of the big piles of campaign cash from Pharma, & it just wasn't possible to include that in the 10 minutes of debate they were allowed. I'm putting my pitchfork down but keeping it handy.
posted by scalefree at 12:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 12:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because, like I said, it sounds like a deliberate falsehood being pushed as a convenient cover to give a war criminal protection from war crimes prosecution?
posted by kafziel at 12:23 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by kafziel at 12:23 PM on January 12, 2017
So you're saying that every retired officer who publicly criticized President Obama violated article 88?
Article 88 prohibits (commissioned) officers from using "contemptuous words" against civilian officials in the chain of command (and some other people and agencies), not any criticism, public or otherwise. There has been a fair amount of JAG jurisprudence over the years about how precisely "contemptuous" can be quantified.
posted by Etrigan at 12:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Article 88 prohibits (commissioned) officers from using "contemptuous words" against civilian officials in the chain of command (and some other people and agencies), not any criticism, public or otherwise. There has been a fair amount of JAG jurisprudence over the years about how precisely "contemptuous" can be quantified.
posted by Etrigan at 12:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you're saying this would give him retroactive immunity for atrocities during the Iraq War, I don't think that's how this works.
posted by scalefree at 12:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 12:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trolls decided I was taking pictures of Rex Tillerson’s notes. I wasn’t even there.
As I'm sure has been mentioned before, this is the kind of thing that will end up with innocent people dead.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
As I'm sure has been mentioned before, this is the kind of thing that will end up with innocent people dead.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
Sorry if nobody cares at all, but here's the text of the house bill:
(a) In General.—Notwithstanding the second sentence of section 113(a) of title 10, United States Code, the first person appointed, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, as Secretary of Defense after the date of the enactment of this Act may be a person who is, on the date of appointment, within seven years after relief, but not within three years after relief, from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of the Armed Forces.
(b) Limited Exception.—This section applies only to the first person appointed as Secretary of Defense as described in subsection (a) after the date of the enactment of this Act, and to no other person.
posted by birdheist at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
(a) In General.—Notwithstanding the second sentence of section 113(a) of title 10, United States Code, the first person appointed, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, as Secretary of Defense after the date of the enactment of this Act may be a person who is, on the date of appointment, within seven years after relief, but not within three years after relief, from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of the Armed Forces.
(b) Limited Exception.—This section applies only to the first person appointed as Secretary of Defense as described in subsection (a) after the date of the enactment of this Act, and to no other person.
posted by birdheist at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sort of interesting county-by-county turnout data from the election. TLDR; Turnout down among Democrats, up among Republicans, relative to 2012 results.
Looking at precinct-level data from my county, I was surprised at how many provisional ballots were cast for Trump. What that suggested to me was Republicans who had sat out the last few election cycles, had been put on the inactive voter list, but showed up again for Trump. That was just my inference, though; don't assign it too much value. I've not done any analysis with any significant degree of rigor, nor have I compared it to provisional ballot results in 2012. There were also a large number of registrants moved to the inactive voter list in my county this year, which may have had a bigger effect on Republicans than you would see in other years.
posted by compartment at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2017
Looking at precinct-level data from my county, I was surprised at how many provisional ballots were cast for Trump. What that suggested to me was Republicans who had sat out the last few election cycles, had been put on the inactive voter list, but showed up again for Trump. That was just my inference, though; don't assign it too much value. I've not done any analysis with any significant degree of rigor, nor have I compared it to provisional ballot results in 2012. There were also a large number of registrants moved to the inactive voter list in my county this year, which may have had a bigger effect on Republicans than you would see in other years.
posted by compartment at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2017
I know this is far down on our list of concerns, but I took a few minutes to feel badly about the fact that Trump has hired a Bruce Springsteen tribute band and Bruce Springsteen is decidedly not a Trump supporter.
I did some research and discovered that tribute bands must get licenses to cover songs for each performance ((legal zoom). The venue is generally responsible for obtaining the correct licenses. The license ensure that royalties are paid to the composers of covered songs. Since Mr. Springsteen has credit for composing the (vast majority of his recorded hits, it looks like he may have some recourse here if he wants to use it. Trump would probably ignore any lack of licenses, but Mr. Springsteen would know that he publicly tried to prevent the use of his music.
We may now return to the pursuit of more important matters. It just bothered me from a copyright aspect.
posted by Silverstone at 12:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
I did some research and discovered that tribute bands must get licenses to cover songs for each performance ((legal zoom). The venue is generally responsible for obtaining the correct licenses. The license ensure that royalties are paid to the composers of covered songs. Since Mr. Springsteen has credit for composing the (vast majority of his recorded hits, it looks like he may have some recourse here if he wants to use it. Trump would probably ignore any lack of licenses, but Mr. Springsteen would know that he publicly tried to prevent the use of his music.
We may now return to the pursuit of more important matters. It just bothered me from a copyright aspect.
posted by Silverstone at 12:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Looking at precinct-level data from my county, I was surprised at how many provisional ballots were cast for Trump.
Well, I've told the story before how I witnessed the California Republican Party committing voter fraud in 1972, when Nixon was definitely assured of re-election, and I see no reason why the parent organization and its local affiliates haven't continued to do so in every election since. It's called "Trump's Mirror" now, but it really has been standard GOP practice for decades.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, I've told the story before how I witnessed the California Republican Party committing voter fraud in 1972, when Nixon was definitely assured of re-election, and I see no reason why the parent organization and its local affiliates haven't continued to do so in every election since. It's called "Trump's Mirror" now, but it really has been standard GOP practice for decades.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Doesn't "the Trump-Russia Dossier" or the kompromat tape deserve its own thread?
No new information for those who have been paying attention.
Maybe I'm not paying as much attention as others, but that dossier seems like new info...
posted by mrgrimm at 12:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
No new information for those who have been paying attention.
Maybe I'm not paying as much attention as others, but that dossier seems like new info...
posted by mrgrimm at 12:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Multiple people are reporting that C-SPAN1 was briefly preempted by RT for 10 minutes.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
200 buses have applied for city parking on Inauguration Day. 1,200 have applied for the Women’s March.
I'm worried about right-wing actors who are attempting to incite violence at the Inauguration and the March to blame liberals, but these bus parking permit application numbers still make me happy as a very rough gauge of the possible attendance at either event.
posted by longdaysjourney at 12:50 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm worried about right-wing actors who are attempting to incite violence at the Inauguration and the March to blame liberals, but these bus parking permit application numbers still make me happy as a very rough gauge of the possible attendance at either event.
posted by longdaysjourney at 12:50 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Obama is paying tribute to Biden right now.
posted by futz at 12:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 12:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Obama is paying tribute to Biden right now.
That's an even worse cover band than B Street.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's an even worse cover band than B Street.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
C-SPAN1 was briefly preempted by RT for 10 minutes.
This is only a test. . .
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is only a test. . .
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Max Headroom was so much better the first time around. Or the second, for that matter.
posted by Etrigan at 12:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 12:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's an even worse cover band than B Street.
The K Street Band are the worst.
posted by scalefree at 12:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
The K Street Band are the worst.
posted by scalefree at 12:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
The venue is generally responsible for obtaining the correct licenses.
Any large venue has blanket licenses for everything covered by a particular licensing org. The songwriter doesn't have any right to deny the use of a song in a performance setting (I'm not a lawyer, just a musician).
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Any large venue has blanket licenses for everything covered by a particular licensing org. The songwriter doesn't have any right to deny the use of a song in a performance setting (I'm not a lawyer, just a musician).
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
C-SPAN1 was briefly preempted by RT for 10 minutes.
This is only a test. . .
The do do do, tra la la upbeat music really added to the creep factor.
posted by Jalliah at 12:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is only a test. . .
The do do do, tra la la upbeat music really added to the creep factor.
posted by Jalliah at 12:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is great. Lots of laughter and Biden appears to be wiping away tears. These two are true buddies.
posted by futz at 12:57 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by futz at 12:57 PM on January 12, 2017
Since Mr. Springsteen has credit for composing the (vast majority of his recorded hits, it looks like he may have some recourse here if he wants to use it
This isn't really how licensing works. The performance rights for all of Springsteen's compositions are managed by ASCAP, and they issue blanket licenses to venues where music is performed. Every venue in the US pays its license and is free to perform any works in the catalog without exception.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:57 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
This isn't really how licensing works. The performance rights for all of Springsteen's compositions are managed by ASCAP, and they issue blanket licenses to venues where music is performed. Every venue in the US pays its license and is free to perform any works in the catalog without exception.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:57 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The announcement of Cyber-Ghouliani immediately triggered Lawnmower Man flashbacks in my brain. Hence this.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I did send a letter to PR@LLBean.com which read:
Greetings! Just a note to comment that I don't care about Director Linda Bean's politics at all, much as I disagree with them. But now President-Elect Trump has endorsed your company. When someone who holds odious beliefs aligns with a company, it's obviously beyond its control. However, it is incumbent on that company to immediately disavow that individual. Better responses include donations to worthy causes that demonstrate corporate commitment to its professed values and, furthermore, counters the damage wrought by, in this case, Trump's hostility to minorities, LGBTQ people, women, Muslims, etc. For example, L.L. Bean could donate warm clothing to poor members of Maine's large Somali immigrant community. What will L.L. Bean do?
I no longer wish to wear my L.L. Bean attire lest it be interpreted as an indication that I support Donald Trump. I will therefore not be purchasing any more until your company makes it clear--in both words and by its actions--to all that his favor is neither welcome nor was it solicited.
posted by carmicha at 1:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [71 favorites]
Greetings! Just a note to comment that I don't care about Director Linda Bean's politics at all, much as I disagree with them. But now President-Elect Trump has endorsed your company. When someone who holds odious beliefs aligns with a company, it's obviously beyond its control. However, it is incumbent on that company to immediately disavow that individual. Better responses include donations to worthy causes that demonstrate corporate commitment to its professed values and, furthermore, counters the damage wrought by, in this case, Trump's hostility to minorities, LGBTQ people, women, Muslims, etc. For example, L.L. Bean could donate warm clothing to poor members of Maine's large Somali immigrant community. What will L.L. Bean do?
I no longer wish to wear my L.L. Bean attire lest it be interpreted as an indication that I support Donald Trump. I will therefore not be purchasing any more until your company makes it clear--in both words and by its actions--to all that his favor is neither welcome nor was it solicited.
posted by carmicha at 1:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [71 favorites]
Doesn't "the Trump-Russia Dossier" or the kompromat tape deserve its own thread?
I'm uncomfortable giving too much attention to the contents of the dossier (though pee jokes are fine, go ahead) for the same reason that I'm uncomfortable with getting info from Wikileaks. There's no way to verify most of it. It's way too easy to manipulate people through disinformation if you let stories get into the public discourse this way.
Some of it is probably true, some of it is probably false. There's a good chance that Russian intelligence fed some of that info to Steele just to muddy the waters, deliberately mixing true and false. Trump would know which stuff is true, so he would know that Russia really has the goods on him, but the fact that there's some false stuff mixed in would give him some deniability which would preserve the leverage value.
I think the existence of the dossier is a newsworthy topic and discussion-worthy, but a thread just devoted to its contents would be weird to me. Every legitimate news org that's not Buzzfeed pretty much took a pass on publishing that stuff (if only they'd taken one on publishing the Wikileaks stuff too!) and I think MeFi did a good job discussing it while maintaining some skeptical distance. A whole thread devoted to it seems too much like an endorsement of its publication and would lead to a lot of arguing about the validity of the contents.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm uncomfortable giving too much attention to the contents of the dossier (though pee jokes are fine, go ahead) for the same reason that I'm uncomfortable with getting info from Wikileaks. There's no way to verify most of it. It's way too easy to manipulate people through disinformation if you let stories get into the public discourse this way.
Some of it is probably true, some of it is probably false. There's a good chance that Russian intelligence fed some of that info to Steele just to muddy the waters, deliberately mixing true and false. Trump would know which stuff is true, so he would know that Russia really has the goods on him, but the fact that there's some false stuff mixed in would give him some deniability which would preserve the leverage value.
I think the existence of the dossier is a newsworthy topic and discussion-worthy, but a thread just devoted to its contents would be weird to me. Every legitimate news org that's not Buzzfeed pretty much took a pass on publishing that stuff (if only they'd taken one on publishing the Wikileaks stuff too!) and I think MeFi did a good job discussing it while maintaining some skeptical distance. A whole thread devoted to it seems too much like an endorsement of its publication and would lead to a lot of arguing about the validity of the contents.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is the Justice Department inspector general independent and not beholden to or replaceable by the administration?
Yes they're independent, can't be ordered around or shut down. The statutes protecting & empowering them are actually pretty strong. It's a role that was definitely designed to withstand pressure from above & noncompliance with their requests.
posted by scalefree at 1:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes they're independent, can't be ordered around or shut down. The statutes protecting & empowering them are actually pretty strong. It's a role that was definitely designed to withstand pressure from above & noncompliance with their requests.
posted by scalefree at 1:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Biden in tears as Obama awards him the Presidential Medal of Freedom With Distinction.
posted by futz at 1:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by futz at 1:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
President Obama, in a surprise move, awards the Medal of Freedom “to my brother, Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Corey Booker says his vote against cheap Canadian drugs was principled & concerned a lack of safety controls in the bill, not because of the big piles of campaign cash from Pharma, & it just wasn't possible to include that in the 10 minutes of debate they were allowed. I'm putting my pitchfork down but keeping it handy.
The US drugs and the Canadian drugs are manufactured in the same factories by the same companies (that give him money). Raise your fork high.
posted by kafziel at 1:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
The US drugs and the Canadian drugs are manufactured in the same factories by the same companies (that give him money). Raise your fork high.
posted by kafziel at 1:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just found out that the National Cathedral's Choir of Men and Boys has apparently accepted an invitation to sing at the Inauguration.
And I'm fucking furious.
The Episcopal Church is one of the most liberal mainline churches in the country, you can't shake an aspergilium at a diocesan gathering without hitting a gay or female priest -- but we are apparently okay sending our national cathedral choir to sing for the fascists. And per that first link, the Dean of the cathedral apparently signed off on it.
Fuck, fuck, fuck this normalization bullshit.
That is all.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [53 favorites]
And I'm fucking furious.
The Episcopal Church is one of the most liberal mainline churches in the country, you can't shake an aspergilium at a diocesan gathering without hitting a gay or female priest -- but we are apparently okay sending our national cathedral choir to sing for the fascists. And per that first link, the Dean of the cathedral apparently signed off on it.
Fuck, fuck, fuck this normalization bullshit.
That is all.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [53 favorites]
Juliet and Jackie Evancho, Bonding as Targets in a Trump Media Frenzy:
Jackie Evancho, a 16-year-old singer who rode success on NBC’s “America’s Got Talent” to international stardom, has become the target of intense criticism over her decision to perform the national anthem at Donald J. Trump’s presidential inauguration on Jan. 20. Juliet Evancho, 18, has always defended her little sister, but she is dealing with blowback of another kind. Juliet came out as transgender in 2015, and her family is suing the school district over her right to use women’s bathrooms.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jackie Evancho, a 16-year-old singer who rode success on NBC’s “America’s Got Talent” to international stardom, has become the target of intense criticism over her decision to perform the national anthem at Donald J. Trump’s presidential inauguration on Jan. 20. Juliet Evancho, 18, has always defended her little sister, but she is dealing with blowback of another kind. Juliet came out as transgender in 2015, and her family is suing the school district over her right to use women’s bathrooms.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Holy shit how much must Juliet hate her sister
posted by Yowser at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ben Carson has refused to guarantee that no federal housing funds would benefit the Trump family should he be confirmed as the secretary of housing and urban development (Hud).
Also,
Before Carson faced Warren’s questions, he delivered off-the-cuff opening remarks, speaking freely instead of reading directly from the written statement he had prepared and submitted in advance of Thursday’s hearing.
At least a portion of those prepared remarks appear to have been plagiarized, reported the Washington Post, including two paragraphs copied word-for-word from a 2008 policy report published by the Robert Wood Johnson foundation. The text describes the dangers of lead paint and the impact that unsafe housing can have on health.
posted by futz at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Also,
Before Carson faced Warren’s questions, he delivered off-the-cuff opening remarks, speaking freely instead of reading directly from the written statement he had prepared and submitted in advance of Thursday’s hearing.
At least a portion of those prepared remarks appear to have been plagiarized, reported the Washington Post, including two paragraphs copied word-for-word from a 2008 policy report published by the Robert Wood Johnson foundation. The text describes the dangers of lead paint and the impact that unsafe housing can have on health.
posted by futz at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Watching Biden give his remarks now. He looks old, and tired.
posted by anastasiav at 1:18 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by anastasiav at 1:18 PM on January 12, 2017
the National Cathedral's Choir of Men and Boys has apparently accepted an invitation to sing at the Inauguration.
I've sent a shaming email. You should too.
communications@cathedral.org
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
I've sent a shaming email. You should too.
communications@cathedral.org
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
He looks old, and tired.
He lost his son, what, 18 months ago, and then watched what was probably going to be his presidency go to Donald Trump. I think he looks fantastic.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
He lost his son, what, 18 months ago, and then watched what was probably going to be his presidency go to Donald Trump. I think he looks fantastic.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Watching Biden give his remarks now. He looks old, and tired.
Well, he's been propping up The Onion for years.
posted by Etrigan at 1:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
Well, he's been propping up The Onion for years.
posted by Etrigan at 1:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
MY MOM'S POLITICAL BOYFRIEND DIAMOND JOE IS MAKING ME CRY
posted by pxe2000 at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
He looks old, and tired.
He lost his son, what, 18 months ago, and then watched what was probably going to be his presidency go to Donald Trump. I think he looks fantastic.
Oh, I know. I just don't think he looked this tired even a couple of weeks ago. I worry about him.
posted by anastasiav at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
He lost his son, what, 18 months ago, and then watched what was probably going to be his presidency go to Donald Trump. I think he looks fantastic.
Oh, I know. I just don't think he looked this tired even a couple of weeks ago. I worry about him.
posted by anastasiav at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
One angle no one seems to be mentioning is that Trump hired Russians to do the golden showers, when you know damned well there are any number of Americans who would have been glad to do that job. Probably, there were some who would have done it pro bono.
I have a Problem Cat with a lot of territorial anxiety. When he misbehaved himself this morning I threatened to send him to Trump Tower if he does it again.
I fear he lacks the intellect to grasp the magnitude of the threat.
posted by tel3path at 1:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have a Problem Cat with a lot of territorial anxiety. When he misbehaved himself this morning I threatened to send him to Trump Tower if he does it again.
I fear he lacks the intellect to grasp the magnitude of the threat.
posted by tel3path at 1:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Top Senate Recipients Funded by Pharmaceutical Cory A. Booker $267,338
posted by asra at 1:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by asra at 1:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
He was also blindsided by this event today. He joked that he was going to fire his COS because he thought he was going to a small event to have a drink and reminisce. The two of them have told some great stories! I cannot ever imagine this happening in a djt White House.
I imagine that the last few months have been hell.
posted by futz at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
I imagine that the last few months have been hell.
posted by futz at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
At least a portion of [Ben Carson's] prepared remarks appear to have been plagiarized, reported the Washington Post...including two paragraphs copied word-for-word from a 2008 policy report published by the Robert Wood Johnson foundation.
What a moron. It would be so easy for him to either paraphrase the ideas or say something like "In the course of preparing for this hearing and my role as HUD Secretary, I came across [whatever] by [whoever] and was especially struck by [something]. Then he looks conscientious, informed and thoughtful. But no. Appearance over substance seems to be a hallmark of TrumpWorld.
posted by carmicha at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
What a moron. It would be so easy for him to either paraphrase the ideas or say something like "In the course of preparing for this hearing and my role as HUD Secretary, I came across [whatever] by [whoever] and was especially struck by [something]. Then he looks conscientious, informed and thoughtful. But no. Appearance over substance seems to be a hallmark of TrumpWorld.
posted by carmicha at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Thank you for the clarification on Bruce Springsteen's rights as a composer, uncleozzy. Although this system would seem to work well generally for composers, there are instances in which I wish they had more control over their work.
posted by Silverstone at 1:28 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Silverstone at 1:28 PM on January 12, 2017
My cat would walk around Trump Tower like he owned the place.
posted by zutalors! at 1:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 1:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's video of Biden being awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom with Distinction, he is genuinely surprised and it's really nice to watch.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [25 favorites]
I have a Problem Cat with a lot of territorial anxiety. When he misbehaved himself this morning I threatened to send him to Trump Tower if he does it again
He could get a cabinet post.
posted by nubs at 1:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
He could get a cabinet post.
posted by nubs at 1:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
My cat would pee trumps bed for free. I'm sure of it.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
He could get a cabinet post.
Trump would put him in charge of dog relations.
posted by diogenes at 1:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump would put him in charge of dog relations.
posted by diogenes at 1:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Last month, but relevant: Carter Page told an audience in Moscow that Rex Tillerson was Sec State pick before Trump told America
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Religious News Service: Why abortion may increase during a Donald Trump presidency
Not only is Trump unlikely to repeal Roe, but his administration may become a catalyst for actually worsening abortion rates in this country. The history of the last thirty years shows that America has had its best success in decreasing abortion when Democrats have occupied the White House, not Republicans.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
That is largely because women are more likely to abort a fetus when they lack adequate jobs and health care coverage — which is the economic situation Trump wants to reduce them to.
Trump would put him in charge of dog relations.
I have to admit, while looking at this thread, I did wonder what Trump would say about dogs who didn't pass TSA training. (warning: thread contains many good dogs).
posted by nubs at 1:37 PM on January 12, 2017
I have to admit, while looking at this thread, I did wonder what Trump would say about dogs who didn't pass TSA training. (warning: thread contains many good dogs).
posted by nubs at 1:37 PM on January 12, 2017
This is exactly true. And we will hear it, often, because Etrigan is correct. It'll just take one to break the ice.
Blackface isn't a reason to resign anymore.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Blackface isn't a reason to resign anymore.
Today, Bonner still sits on the school board — with a crowd of supporters, his name on a T-shirt and an award for “Outstanding Board Member.”Sigh. What's the point of civilization if you won't act civilized.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
What a moron. It would be so easy for him to either paraphrase the ideas or say something like "In the course of preparing for this hearing and my role as HUD Secretary, I came across [whatever] by [whoever] and was especially struck by [something]. Then he looks conscientious, informed and thoughtful. But no. Appearance over substance seems to be a hallmark of TrumpWorld.
Either that, or if you can't be arsed to do that, pay someone to write you some well-researched briefs and notes that sound original and informed.
I mean, it's not brain surgery.
*ducks*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Either that, or if you can't be arsed to do that, pay someone to write you some well-researched briefs and notes that sound original and informed.
I mean, it's not brain surgery.
*ducks*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well done Cubbies. Seriously wonder if any teams will visit the White House the next four years.
The Cubs choose to visit the White House before Obama leaves office
"Usually, the World Series winning team visits the White House the following summer while playing a road series against either the Nationals or Orioles. The Cubs are doing something different, however: they’re visiting the White House this coming Monday, just before President Obama leaves office."
posted by chris24 at 1:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [60 favorites]
The Cubs choose to visit the White House before Obama leaves office
"Usually, the World Series winning team visits the White House the following summer while playing a road series against either the Nationals or Orioles. The Cubs are doing something different, however: they’re visiting the White House this coming Monday, just before President Obama leaves office."
posted by chris24 at 1:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [60 favorites]
Brennan Center for Justice: Fact-Checking Sessions’ Opening Remarks: Crime, Violent Crime, and Prosecutions
Fact: Federal data show that during Sessions’s time as U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Alabama, more than 40 percent of his convictions were for drug crimes, double the rate of other Alabama federal prosecutors. Violent crimes made up just 3.2 percent of Sessions’s convictions. Sessions also sought harsher prison sentences in drug cases, reflecting a disproportionate focus on drugs rather than violent crime. See more in this analysis here.That last link takes you to an analysis which "provides a brief summary of Sen. Jeff Sessions’s past statements, votes, and practices" which includes this:
Unlike many Republican legislators, Sen. Sessions supports the use of “civil asset forfeiture,” which allows police to confiscate property from people who may not even be accused of a crime. Sen. Sessions could strengthen this practice at the federal level, or vocally oppose any congressional efforts to end it.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:41 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Re Carson's appointment, wasn't there something that happened during the primaries, maybe after Carson dropped out, that raised some ethics concerns but then it went away because Carson (or Trump) said he wouldn't serve in a Trump adminstration?
posted by Room 641-A at 1:43 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 1:43 PM on January 12, 2017
Business manager and close friend: . . . "Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency. The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency."
posted by stopgap at 1:48 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 1:48 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
WSJ: The Market Has Already Started to Dump Trump
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
OMG! The B-Street Band actually played at my sister's wedding in 2005. It's so sad that we are going from Beyonce singing for Obama to a PA/NJ wedding band for this clown.
posted by elvissa at 1:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by elvissa at 1:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
While we were all making pee jokes, Republicans are trying to kill the Administrative Procedures Act. The Supreme Court ruled in 1984 that the courts could only overturn rulings that were “arbitrary and capricious, an abuse of discretion.” In other words, the courts would have to defer to the regulatory agencies in finding whether a ruling was justified. But the Republicans in the House passed a law that would allow the courts to rule without giving deference to the regulatory agencies. A Republican court could, for instance, overrule decisions of the Food and Drug Administration or the Environmental Protection Agency on concocted Constitutional grounds – say, by arguing that it violated the “takings” clause of the Constitution. That could cripple the regulatory agencies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Anthony Scaramucci is hired for a top job in Trump’s White House
Last month, Scaramucci (will you do the fandango?) advised us to take Trump's words symbolically, not literally. He also described Jared Kushner "as like the Alexander Hamilton of the new administration." He also once compared the fiduciary rule to slavery.
Other highlights include him getting fired by Goldman Sachs and running another fund into the ground amid the financial crisis.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Last month, Scaramucci (will you do the fandango?) advised us to take Trump's words symbolically, not literally. He also described Jared Kushner "as like the Alexander Hamilton of the new administration." He also once compared the fiduciary rule to slavery.
Other highlights include him getting fired by Goldman Sachs and running another fund into the ground amid the financial crisis.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am pretty sure Carson was chosen entirely as a bipartisan sacrificial lamb so that Republicans can say, "Oh, we didn't give him free rein, we spiked a nominee." He has absolutely no experience even remotely connected with the post and has already pled incompetency to serve in the Cabinet, and apparently is now fucking up the hearing (which, y'know, complete lack of knowledge about the position, so, not surprising).
But, I dunno, that may be giving too much credit for cunning to the administration. After all, the "U" in "HUD" stands for "black", right? Maybe Donald Trump only knows two black people and isn't sure that convicted felon Don King is eligible for the post.
posted by jackbishop at 1:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
But, I dunno, that may be giving too much credit for cunning to the administration. After all, the "U" in "HUD" stands for "black", right? Maybe Donald Trump only knows two black people and isn't sure that convicted felon Don King is eligible for the post.
posted by jackbishop at 1:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
So you're saying that every retired officer who publicly criticized President Obama violated article 88? Yes. As a lawyer, I definitely believe this interpretation is true and correct.
What precisely "contemptuous language" or "disloyal statements" means is in the eye of the person preferring charges. As someone who was personally threatened with court martial for "attacking the war aims of the United States" for having a blog critical of the Iraq War, I can't believe I didn't think of this problem earlier, and I am not thrilled about having this sword hanging over the head of the person I am counting on to save us from stupid, irresponsible wars.
posted by corb at 2:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
What precisely "contemptuous language" or "disloyal statements" means is in the eye of the person preferring charges. As someone who was personally threatened with court martial for "attacking the war aims of the United States" for having a blog critical of the Iraq War, I can't believe I didn't think of this problem earlier, and I am not thrilled about having this sword hanging over the head of the person I am counting on to save us from stupid, irresponsible wars.
posted by corb at 2:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I ran some simple math, please correct me if I'm wrong.
With the repeal of the ACA the top 400 earning Americans will get on average 7 million dollars in tax breaks. The average net worth of the top 400 is 6 billion dollars (according to Forbes). So they will get back 0.0011% back every year. This is the equivalent of a family making 50k per year getting back $55 bucks at the end of the tax year. So...a drop in the bucket for the super wealthy. But you know, they really need that drop way more than the other 324366981 of us need health care. I'm glad that the super wealthy will save what is probably like finding a surprise fiver in your wallet, while 30 million of their fellow citizens go without insurance. Awesome.
posted by supercrayon at 2:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [75 favorites]
With the repeal of the ACA the top 400 earning Americans will get on average 7 million dollars in tax breaks. The average net worth of the top 400 is 6 billion dollars (according to Forbes). So they will get back 0.0011% back every year. This is the equivalent of a family making 50k per year getting back $55 bucks at the end of the tax year. So...a drop in the bucket for the super wealthy. But you know, they really need that drop way more than the other 324366981 of us need health care. I'm glad that the super wealthy will save what is probably like finding a surprise fiver in your wallet, while 30 million of their fellow citizens go without insurance. Awesome.
posted by supercrayon at 2:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [75 favorites]
Ha ha sob this would be hilariously terrible (hilarible? terribious?) if Trump decided that that vomiting forth his every dumbshit thought on Twitter wasn't reaching quite enough people.
posted by jackbishop at 2:06 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by jackbishop at 2:06 PM on January 12, 2017
Have they actually overturned the ACA, or just stripped the funding from it? I seem to recall from an article posted last week that it would take 60 votes to overturn the portions like pre-existing conditions, etc, that weren't tied to money.
posted by corb at 2:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 2:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Either that, or if you can't be arsed to do that, pay someone to write you some well-researched briefs and notes that sound original and informed.
Good point. Isn't helping nominees prepare something that competent transition teams do?
posted by carmicha at 2:08 PM on January 12, 2017
Good point. Isn't helping nominees prepare something that competent transition teams do?
posted by carmicha at 2:08 PM on January 12, 2017
Yeah Matthew Yglesias made the point in his podcast (The Weeds) that they should just give the wealthy their tax break and keep the ACA. Sure the deficit would grow that much bigger, but at this point who cares? Republicans sure don't.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Top Senate Recipients Funded by Pharmaceutical Cory A. Booker $267,338
And schilling for noted scam company Theranos! Which we might also note, as mentioned a couple times above, had Mad Dog Mattis as one of their other big pushers trying to scam the military for 'em.
posted by kafziel at 2:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
And schilling for noted scam company Theranos! Which we might also note, as mentioned a couple times above, had Mad Dog Mattis as one of their other big pushers trying to scam the military for 'em.
posted by kafziel at 2:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
teams will visit the White House the next four years.
The Patriots totally would. Yet another reason to despise the Pats.
posted by TwoStride at 2:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Patriots totally would. Yet another reason to despise the Pats.
posted by TwoStride at 2:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
corb: "Have they actually overturned the ACA, or just stripped the funding from it?"
From Ijeoma Oluo, writing for The Establishment: A Handy Guide To What The Hell Happened To The Affordable Care Act Last Night.
The tl;dr of it is: no, they haven't actually overturned the ACA yet but have taken the first steps down the multi-step path to doing so.
posted by mhum at 2:17 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
From Ijeoma Oluo, writing for The Establishment: A Handy Guide To What The Hell Happened To The Affordable Care Act Last Night.
The tl;dr of it is: no, they haven't actually overturned the ACA yet but have taken the first steps down the multi-step path to doing so.
posted by mhum at 2:17 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Isn't helping nominees prepare something that competent transition teams do?
I think it's clear by now this admin is going to be run by the bulge in Matthew McConaughey's pants in Dazed and Confused.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think it's clear by now this admin is going to be run by the bulge in Matthew McConaughey's pants in Dazed and Confused.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's video of Biden being awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom with Distinction, he is genuinely surprised and it's really nice to watch.
This was indeed nice to watch... until my eyes landed on CNN's hour/minute/second countdown to Paul Ryan's town hall. Even the meager comforts available are all tainted now.
posted by argonauta at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
This was indeed nice to watch... until my eyes landed on CNN's hour/minute/second countdown to Paul Ryan's town hall. Even the meager comforts available are all tainted now.
posted by argonauta at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
What they did last night doesn't change anything about the ACA, even if (when) the House passes its own version of the same measure, but it is a necessary step for them to eventually gut the law.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:24 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:24 PM on January 12, 2017
The deficit is going to grow bigger anyway. Obamacare was good for the government's bottom line, since it was reducing health care costs overall. Sure, the subsidies cost money, but they were paid for, and the costs associated with Medicare etc. were reduced. The Medicaid expansion was to have been paid for out of state budgets in the long term.
Have they actually overturned the ACA, or just stripped the funding from it
They definitely haven't actually overturned it yet.
I am still hopeful (as Ryan and Trump insist that "repeal and delay" won't happen after all) that they will basically just replace the individual mandate with a threat that you might never be able to get health insurance again if you drop coverage (so just a different kind of mandate, really) and then declare "Obamacare is repealed, hurray for us!" while leaving almost everything else intact.
This is probably the least politically disastrous thing they can do, at this point, since it wouldn't destroy the health insurance industry, and it wouldn't risk a Democratic filibuster (since they might be able to do it entirely through the reconciliation process, by leaving the pre-existing conditions and insurance standards intact), and it's consistent with what Ryan had proposed previously (though his proposal does also include some severe cost cutting which would likely make insurance very expensive for people with pre-existing conditions, and de-regulation which might leave people who do have cheap insurance still declaring medical bankruptcies if they get really sick. Not sure if they can do those things through reconciliation or not. Maybe the first.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Have they actually overturned the ACA, or just stripped the funding from it
They definitely haven't actually overturned it yet.
I am still hopeful (as Ryan and Trump insist that "repeal and delay" won't happen after all) that they will basically just replace the individual mandate with a threat that you might never be able to get health insurance again if you drop coverage (so just a different kind of mandate, really) and then declare "Obamacare is repealed, hurray for us!" while leaving almost everything else intact.
This is probably the least politically disastrous thing they can do, at this point, since it wouldn't destroy the health insurance industry, and it wouldn't risk a Democratic filibuster (since they might be able to do it entirely through the reconciliation process, by leaving the pre-existing conditions and insurance standards intact), and it's consistent with what Ryan had proposed previously (though his proposal does also include some severe cost cutting which would likely make insurance very expensive for people with pre-existing conditions, and de-regulation which might leave people who do have cheap insurance still declaring medical bankruptcies if they get really sick. Not sure if they can do those things through reconciliation or not. Maybe the first.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know, I was pondering some of the horror that is to come.
There's going to be some sort of horrible disaster on Trump's watch - there is on every president's watch. Even Dubya - whom I loathed - had those soulful eyes that communicated "I feel so much pain for you, person who is suffering, even though I'm a little confused about what exactly happened."
When the parents of school shooting victims or survivors of an earthquake or whomever meet with Trump, how will he greet them? In his heart, you know he'll be thinking "what losers" because winners don't get effected by tragedies. What possible words of comfort can a man with no empathy share? The best I can imagine is him saying something like "You should move to a better neighborhood."
Or giving medals. Or pardoning the Thanksgiving turkey. Or any of the things that require him to pretend to act human. I think they're all going to be framed with "how does this prove my greatness." In Trump's White House, everything is going to be about Trump.
"About the people." Bah. Nothing he does is about the people. I don't think he even completely believes that other people exist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [49 favorites]
There's going to be some sort of horrible disaster on Trump's watch - there is on every president's watch. Even Dubya - whom I loathed - had those soulful eyes that communicated "I feel so much pain for you, person who is suffering, even though I'm a little confused about what exactly happened."
When the parents of school shooting victims or survivors of an earthquake or whomever meet with Trump, how will he greet them? In his heart, you know he'll be thinking "what losers" because winners don't get effected by tragedies. What possible words of comfort can a man with no empathy share? The best I can imagine is him saying something like "You should move to a better neighborhood."
Or giving medals. Or pardoning the Thanksgiving turkey. Or any of the things that require him to pretend to act human. I think they're all going to be framed with "how does this prove my greatness." In Trump's White House, everything is going to be about Trump.
"About the people." Bah. Nothing he does is about the people. I don't think he even completely believes that other people exist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [49 favorites]
T.D. Strange, the proposed revision to the APA is indeed terrible, but the particular example given by the article is just strange. Finding a regulation to constitute a taking is already a way for the courts to review agency action outside the APA, and already doesn't include deference. That is one of the few things that wouldn't change under this revision.
Also, the proposed revision leaves in the "arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise not in accordance with law" language that the current case law is based on. So now you're going to have a bunch of lawyers arguing about whether the agency action being appealed is purely a legal interpretation of its regulation, or if it's a different type of agency "action, finding or conclusion" (e.g., application of facts to law) that presumably still gets the existing deferential standard.
posted by alligatorpear at 2:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, the proposed revision leaves in the "arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise not in accordance with law" language that the current case law is based on. So now you're going to have a bunch of lawyers arguing about whether the agency action being appealed is purely a legal interpretation of its regulation, or if it's a different type of agency "action, finding or conclusion" (e.g., application of facts to law) that presumably still gets the existing deferential standard.
posted by alligatorpear at 2:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's gonna pardon so many turkeys you're not gonna believe it.
posted by contraption at 2:27 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by contraption at 2:27 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am fully convinced that he's going to outsource any of things that are for "losers" (like showing empathy to victims' families) to Ivanka.
posted by TwoStride at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
I am pretty sure Carson was chosen entirely as a bipartisan sacrificial lamb so that Republicans can say, "Oh, we didn't give him free rein, we spiked a nominee."
I am honestly surprised that he didn't keep Chris Christie around for that.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am honestly surprised that he didn't keep Chris Christie around for that.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
A message to my doomed colleagues in the American media
posted by zombieflanders at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
The Medicaid expansion was to have been paid for out of state budgets in the long term.
Not exactly. The federal government has picked up 100% of the cost so far. Starting this year, states will pick up 5% of the tab for expansion, slowly increasing to 10% by 2020. Thereafter, the feds will pay 90% of the expansion cost forever unless changed by law.
posted by JackFlash at 2:34 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Not exactly. The federal government has picked up 100% of the cost so far. Starting this year, states will pick up 5% of the tab for expansion, slowly increasing to 10% by 2020. Thereafter, the feds will pay 90% of the expansion cost forever unless changed by law.
posted by JackFlash at 2:34 PM on January 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
T.D. Strange, the proposed revision to the APA is indeed terrible, but the particular example given by the article is just strange.
Among other things, the new REINS law (Argh, that name) will require explicit Congressional approval of any new regulation that has a cumulative effect of $100m on the economy.
The proposed changes to the APA are going to hit public health pretty hard. Agencies like EPA and OSHA issue a lot of regulations that have small and incremental effects on public health. For instance: EPA maintains lists of chemicals for use as pesticides and rodenticides and fungicides, and determines how they are used, how they are stored, and how the packages should be disposed of when they're empty.
Those rules do have effects on the economy: it costs manufacturers money to print labels, it costs industrial users time and money to train their staff and install storage and equipment. But it creates money, too: there's an entire industry built up about the handling and disposal of hazardous materials. It's a niche specialty, but plenty of people in this country work in the field.
So if you strike the law regulating the use of Rodenticide A, you not only make it easier for rodents to get into our food stores and pass diseases to the public, you adversely affect a ton of small and large businesses. For what? So Dow doesn't have to print a particular label on their bottle, and saves $0.06 per carton on processing because they don't store it separately from the catfood anymore?
How much is not poisoning children worth? How much is cleaning up sites contaminated with PCBs and old aircraft fuel worth?
Do these guys not remember the days when children died of household poisoning regularly? Do they not remember Love Canal? Do they remember the Cleveland River catching fire? Do they know how many people died building the Brooklyn Bridge? (At least 20.)
They must, and they don't care.
posted by suelac at 2:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Among other things, the new REINS law (Argh, that name) will require explicit Congressional approval of any new regulation that has a cumulative effect of $100m on the economy.
The proposed changes to the APA are going to hit public health pretty hard. Agencies like EPA and OSHA issue a lot of regulations that have small and incremental effects on public health. For instance: EPA maintains lists of chemicals for use as pesticides and rodenticides and fungicides, and determines how they are used, how they are stored, and how the packages should be disposed of when they're empty.
Those rules do have effects on the economy: it costs manufacturers money to print labels, it costs industrial users time and money to train their staff and install storage and equipment. But it creates money, too: there's an entire industry built up about the handling and disposal of hazardous materials. It's a niche specialty, but plenty of people in this country work in the field.
So if you strike the law regulating the use of Rodenticide A, you not only make it easier for rodents to get into our food stores and pass diseases to the public, you adversely affect a ton of small and large businesses. For what? So Dow doesn't have to print a particular label on their bottle, and saves $0.06 per carton on processing because they don't store it separately from the catfood anymore?
How much is not poisoning children worth? How much is cleaning up sites contaminated with PCBs and old aircraft fuel worth?
Do these guys not remember the days when children died of household poisoning regularly? Do they not remember Love Canal? Do they remember the Cleveland River catching fire? Do they know how many people died building the Brooklyn Bridge? (At least 20.)
They must, and they don't care.
posted by suelac at 2:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Although I will note that same APA-gutting language passed the House last year, too, and died in the Senate Judiciary Committee. Most of the SJC members are the same as last year, so maybe this isn't one of the bigger things to worry about.
posted by alligatorpear at 2:47 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by alligatorpear at 2:47 PM on January 12, 2017
Thereafter, the feds will pay 90% of the expansion cost forever unless changed by law.
I didn't realize that. Then WTF were all those Republican governors throwing fits and refusing to expand it? That's even stupider than I thought!
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:50 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I didn't realize that. Then WTF were all those Republican governors throwing fits and refusing to expand it? That's even stupider than I thought!
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:50 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Andy Daly:
Maybe the GOP could repeal Obamacare but leave the popular ACA fully intact, perhaps by naming a goat "Obamacare" & chasing it into the sea.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
Maybe the GOP could repeal Obamacare but leave the popular ACA fully intact, perhaps by naming a goat "Obamacare" & chasing it into the sea.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
I am still hopeful ... that they will basically just replace the individual mandate with a threat that you might never be able to get health insurance again if you drop coverage (so just a different kind of mandate, really) and then declare "Obamacare is repealed, hurray for us!" while leaving almost everything else intact.
That they would stop there is unlikely. What they really want is to repeal the Obamacare tax on incomes above $250,000 and if they do that, there's not enough money for subsidies. They will go to piddling vouchers.
As far as budget scoring, in order to sneak repeal into a reconciliation bill under the rules, they are keeping the Obamacare Medicare cuts to hospitals and counting that as savings offsetting the tax cuts. These are the very same Medicare cuts that the Tea Party used to demonize Democrats in their take over of Congress in 2010.
So yeah, more Republican duplicity and bullshit.
posted by JackFlash at 2:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
That they would stop there is unlikely. What they really want is to repeal the Obamacare tax on incomes above $250,000 and if they do that, there's not enough money for subsidies. They will go to piddling vouchers.
As far as budget scoring, in order to sneak repeal into a reconciliation bill under the rules, they are keeping the Obamacare Medicare cuts to hospitals and counting that as savings offsetting the tax cuts. These are the very same Medicare cuts that the Tea Party used to demonize Democrats in their take over of Congress in 2010.
So yeah, more Republican duplicity and bullshit.
posted by JackFlash at 2:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Then WTF were all those Republican governors throwing fits and refusing to expand it?
Racism is a helluva drug.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Racism is a helluva drug.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Just to be clear because I didn't see suelac's post before I posted: I was commenting hopefully on the chances of the Regulatory Accountability Act dying in the Senate. That's different from the REINS Act, which I haven't looked at and don't know much about. That also sounds ridiculous, though.
posted by alligatorpear at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by alligatorpear at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017
Then WTF were all those Republican governors throwing fits and refusing to expand it?
10% of an expensive program isn't nothing for cash strapped states.
posted by corb at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
10% of an expensive program isn't nothing for cash strapped states.
posted by corb at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fuck the LL Bean stuff! Linda Bean has always been a conservative clusterfuck of anti-gay rights and other embarrassments to the LL Bean brand, but it has never had national attention before now.
What I am concerned with is the ACA. My husband is going to retire in the next couple of years, and he will get Medicare, but I won't, because I am a writer. I am currently covered on his employer plan. If they kill that, I won't be able to get health insurance.
Thanks, Trump!
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
What I am concerned with is the ACA. My husband is going to retire in the next couple of years, and he will get Medicare, but I won't, because I am a writer. I am currently covered on his employer plan. If they kill that, I won't be able to get health insurance.
Thanks, Trump!
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
10% of an expensive program isn't nothing for cash strapped states
Okay, but they're not getting nothing either. The number of uninsured people in their state would be reduced, leading presumably to lower emergency room costs and fewer sick days and increased productivity and fewer medical bankruptcies and increased entrepreneurship (as people could leave their jobs without having to worry so much about losing health insurance)... And, I mean, just healthier, happier citizens. And they only have to pay 10% of the cost of getting those benefits? That's a steal! What a bargain? Who wouldn't take that deal?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Okay, but they're not getting nothing either. The number of uninsured people in their state would be reduced, leading presumably to lower emergency room costs and fewer sick days and increased productivity and fewer medical bankruptcies and increased entrepreneurship (as people could leave their jobs without having to worry so much about losing health insurance)... And, I mean, just healthier, happier citizens. And they only have to pay 10% of the cost of getting those benefits? That's a steal! What a bargain? Who wouldn't take that deal?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
10% of an expensive program isn't nothing for cash strapped states.
If only states had a mechanism by which they could raise cash.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [51 favorites]
If only states had a mechanism by which they could raise cash.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [51 favorites]
Thereafter, the feds will pay 90% of the expansion cost forever unless changed by law.
Then WTF were all those Republican governors throwing fits and refusing to expand it?
Pure vindictive hate. Hate of the black Democrat in the White House. Hate of poor people. Pure hate.
posted by JackFlash at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
Then WTF were all those Republican governors throwing fits and refusing to expand it?
Pure vindictive hate. Hate of the black Democrat in the White House. Hate of poor people. Pure hate.
posted by JackFlash at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
The ridiculous part is that agencies can only enact regulations that are authorized by laws passed by Congress in the first place. The entire point is that they are creating regulations that implement Congressionaly-mandated laws. And if Congress really doesn't like a regulation, it can overturn it through the Congressional Review Act, which almost never actually happens, or change the law to restrict what kinds of regulations an agency can pass. But Congress doesn't do that, because they want the PR value of being able to criticize "overly burdensome government regulations" without actually taking an ounce of responsibility for themselves and doing anything about it.
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
10% of an expensive program isn't nothing for cash strapped states.
This is a dodge. We're talking about roughly 1% of the budget of many states for a health care program that is regularly praised for being much more cost-effective and better at treating illness and injury than private insurance. Not that it really matters from an actual financial perspective, given that the budget shenanigans--all based on "solid" conservative economic principles, mind you--of most of these states were orders of magnitude more harmful and expensive.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is a dodge. We're talking about roughly 1% of the budget of many states for a health care program that is regularly praised for being much more cost-effective and better at treating illness and injury than private insurance. Not that it really matters from an actual financial perspective, given that the budget shenanigans--all based on "solid" conservative economic principles, mind you--of most of these states were orders of magnitude more harmful and expensive.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
"You should move to a better neighborhood."
"...and go shopping. Don't forget to go shopping or the terrorists win."
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
"...and go shopping. Don't forget to go shopping or the terrorists win."
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
SLoG, is there an un-paywall/un-register-to-read version of that WSJ article?
PS I sent you a MeMail...
posted by yoga at 3:09 PM on January 12, 2017
PS I sent you a MeMail...
posted by yoga at 3:09 PM on January 12, 2017
What Difference Does Medicaid Make? Assessing Cost Effectiveness, Access, and Financial Protection under Medicaid for Low-Income Adults (emphasis mine)
Consistent with previous research, our analysis underscores how Medicaid coverage facilitates access to care for program beneficiaries. We find that Medicaid provides access to health care services comparable to that of [employer-sponsored insurance (ESI)] but at significantly lower costs. Specifically, if adult Medicaid beneficiaries were instead covered by ESI, their access to care would not be significantly different, and their likelihood of using most health care services (e.g., primary care doctors, prescription drugs and inpatient care) would not differ significantly, with the exception of emergency department use (which would go down) and specialist visits (which would go up). Moreover, despite few significant differences in the expected level of service use between Medicaid and ESI coverage, we find that adult Medicaid beneficiaries’ health care costs would be over 25 percent higher if they had ESI coverage instead. Importantly, compared to ESI coverage, Medicaid affords better financial protection from medical expenses for individuals: out-of-pocket (OOP) spending for health care services would be three times higher if Medicaid beneficiaries were instead covered by ESI. For a lowincome population, such an expense is a considerable financial burden that could cause individuals to delay getting needed health care.posted by zombieflanders at 3:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Further, our analysis confirms the better access and financial protection Medicaid beneficiaries have over their uninsured counterparts. Our projections show that, if beneficiaries did not have Medicaid coverage and were instead uninsured, they would be significantly less likely to have a usual source of care and more likely to have unmet health care need. Similarly, if Medicaid beneficiaries did not have their health insurance, projections indicate that the likelihood of their using health care services in the categories we examined would be significantly lower, except for outpatient ED use, which would be unchanged. Further, Medicaid facilitates this access to care at lower financial cost to individuals: If Medicaid beneficiaries in our sample were instead uninsured, their OOP spending would increase on average nearly four-fold. However, spending on their health care services overall would be significantly lower, as expected given the projected decrease in their service use. Even with no health insurance, these individuals would still incur health care costs, most of which would likely be uncompensated care costs that the health care system would need to absorb.
Results from this study suggest that policymakers considering options to cut the Medicaid program or shift beneficiaries to private coverage should be mindful of the program’s cost effectiveness and the financial benefits and access to care it provides to low-income Americans. Further, expanding Medicaid to uninsured low-income adults is likely to improve those adults’ access to care and reduce the financial burden they currently face.
SLoG, is there an un-paywall/un-register-to-read version of that WSJ article?
You can usually copy/paste the headline into google, then click the link from there, though it doesn't always work. A link from Twitter also often works.
posted by zachlipton at 3:12 PM on January 12, 2017
You can usually copy/paste the headline into google, then click the link from there, though it doesn't always work. A link from Twitter also often works.
posted by zachlipton at 3:12 PM on January 12, 2017
The leaked Trump-Russia dossier rings frighteningly true
posted by futz at 3:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by futz at 3:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
10% of an expensive program isn't nothing for cash strapped states.
Wrong again. States that have expanded Medicaid have actually seen savings. For example, Louisiana is projected to save almost $700 million for the next 5 years. New Jersey is saving over $350 million each year so far.
These savings are coming from:
Reduction in uncompensated care by hospitals. Those emergency rooms that Republicans say everyone can go to aren't free.
Some adult Medicaid recipients that states formerly paid 100% can be shifted to the expansion program where they only pay 10%.
More revenue from existing state and local taxes for healthcare related spending.
Improved mental health coverage and reduction of social costs of untreated mentally ill.
Nope. It isn't costs. It's close to free for states. It's just standard Republican evilness.
posted by JackFlash at 3:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [48 favorites]
Wrong again. States that have expanded Medicaid have actually seen savings. For example, Louisiana is projected to save almost $700 million for the next 5 years. New Jersey is saving over $350 million each year so far.
These savings are coming from:
Reduction in uncompensated care by hospitals. Those emergency rooms that Republicans say everyone can go to aren't free.
Some adult Medicaid recipients that states formerly paid 100% can be shifted to the expansion program where they only pay 10%.
More revenue from existing state and local taxes for healthcare related spending.
Improved mental health coverage and reduction of social costs of untreated mentally ill.
Nope. It isn't costs. It's close to free for states. It's just standard Republican evilness.
posted by JackFlash at 3:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [48 favorites]
Dr. Jay Shannon, head of Cook County Health and Hospital Systems (Chicago) did a brief interview of what the appeal of the ACA would mean
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
SLoG, is there an un-paywall/un-register-to-read version of that WSJ article?
I usually google WSJ and a few key words from the headline and it pops right up. I have never been denied by WSJ when I do that. OTOH I cannot get around latimes or usa today no matter what I do. Can always try pasting the url into archive.is and see if that works too.
posted by futz at 3:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I usually google WSJ and a few key words from the headline and it pops right up. I have never been denied by WSJ when I do that. OTOH I cannot get around latimes or usa today no matter what I do. Can always try pasting the url into archive.is and see if that works too.
posted by futz at 3:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pure vindictive hate. Hate of the black Democrat in the White House. Hate of poor people. Pure hate.
At some point it seems like they just started making up new groups to hate. My statehouse rep sponsored a bill that would deny healthcare to childless adults. (Thankfully, it didn't go anywhere.)
posted by compartment at 3:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
At some point it seems like they just started making up new groups to hate. My statehouse rep sponsored a bill that would deny healthcare to childless adults. (Thankfully, it didn't go anywhere.)
posted by compartment at 3:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
For when you want - need - to vent, rant, release steam, whatever online, but you don't want your comment to be traceable or permanent, there is the MetaFilter project Scream into the void by J.R. Hartley.
posted by Wordshore at 3:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 3:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
even stupider than I thought!
The new Republican party tagline.
posted by srboisvert at 3:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
The new Republican party tagline.
posted by srboisvert at 3:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
My father-in-law voted Trump. His wife has healthcare under the ACA. The temptation to send him anonymous emails listing how the ACA is probably gonna die: massive.
posted by XtinaS at 3:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 3:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
C-Span's statement on being hacked.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Gotta say I'm not all that bothered by the defections over importing drugs from Canada. That's like a relief valve to kick the can down the road and not address our fundamental problems with health care.
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wonder if there's any jujitsu we can do that would enable the "Mexico will pay for the wall" logic to apply to the wealthy paying for public healthcare. Every time they try to move money to the Caymans, the life expectancy gets ten weeks higher!
posted by XMLicious at 3:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 3:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I kept thinking that maybe Obama was playing a long game, that something would happen Jan 19th or so. But this quote on CNN from Biden about how he reacted at that briefing implies not.
Biden's office confirmed that the vice president said he and Obama were briefed about the claims but said that neither Biden nor Obama asked for more information about them. Biden's office also said the vice president told reporters that intelligence leaders felt obligated to tell Obama because they were planning on informing Trump. Biden also said he read the entire 35-page report.posted by Brainy at 3:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Biden's office also confirmed that Obama, according to the vice president, asked, "What does this have to do with anything?"
I wonder if there's any jujitsu we can do that would enable the "Mexico will pay for the wall" logic to apply to the wealthy paying for public healthcare. Every time they try to move money to the Caymans, the life expectancy gets ten weeks higher!
Seeing as that is translating into "We will build the wall at massive personal expense, and Mexico will maybe reimburse us for it indirectly later" and that's okay with those people ... I don't think it will help.
posted by kafziel at 3:40 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seeing as that is translating into "We will build the wall at massive personal expense, and Mexico will maybe reimburse us for it indirectly later" and that's okay with those people ... I don't think it will help.
posted by kafziel at 3:40 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Did I imagine that someone in this thread linked to something in which trumpski said that he was not a germaphobe? If so I can't find it again. help?
posted by futz at 3:42 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by futz at 3:42 PM on January 12, 2017
@jimsciutto
Breaking: FBI Dir Comey briefed PEOTUS Trump on two-page synopsis of Russian claims in one-on-one conversation Friday - sources to #CNN
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Breaking: FBI Dir Comey briefed PEOTUS Trump on two-page synopsis of Russian claims in one-on-one conversation Friday - sources to #CNN
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did I imagine that someone in this thread linked to something in which trumpski said that he was not a germaphobe? If so I can't find it again. help?
I could swear I linked it yesterday, but I'm not finding it now, nor do I quite understand why it would have been deleted. Anyway: 2015 THR Interview: Trump Said He Wasn't "Germophobic"
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I could swear I linked it yesterday, but I'm not finding it now, nor do I quite understand why it would have been deleted. Anyway: 2015 THR Interview: Trump Said He Wasn't "Germophobic"
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sen. Sessions supports the use of “civil asset forfeiture,” which allows police to confiscate property from people who may not even be accused of a crime.
Now see, I was taught to avoid using a fancy three dollar phrase like "civil asset forfeiture" when there is a perfectly good one-syllable word like "theft" that means the same thing.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:45 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Now see, I was taught to avoid using a fancy three dollar phrase like "civil asset forfeiture" when there is a perfectly good one-syllable word like "theft" that means the same thing.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:45 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Ben Carson: LGBT People Don't Deserve "Extra Rights": Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio said to Carson, “You have in the past raised questions about whether LGBTQ people should enjoy the same rights as everyone else. Do you believe that HUD has a duty to take actions that promote equal access to housing opportunities for LGBTQ people?”
Carson responded, “Of course I would enforce all the laws of the land, and I believe that all Americans, regardless of any of the things you mentioned, should be protected by the law. What I have mentioned in the past is that no one gets extra rights. Extra rights means you get to redefine everything for everybody else.”
Brown replied that wasn’t what he was asking about, but he was glad to hear Carson say he would uphold the law going forward.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Carson responded, “Of course I would enforce all the laws of the land, and I believe that all Americans, regardless of any of the things you mentioned, should be protected by the law. What I have mentioned in the past is that no one gets extra rights. Extra rights means you get to redefine everything for everybody else.”
Brown replied that wasn’t what he was asking about, but he was glad to hear Carson say he would uphold the law going forward.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
basically just replace the individual mandate with a threat that you might never be able to get health insurance again if you drop coverage
I would like to point out that this is COMPLETELY FUCKED, couldn't be made more economically regressive if one tried, and should absolutely not be shrugged off as a version of the annual penalty more palatable to conservatives.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
I would like to point out that this is COMPLETELY FUCKED, couldn't be made more economically regressive if one tried, and should absolutely not be shrugged off as a version of the annual penalty more palatable to conservatives.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
basically just replace the individual mandate with a threat that you might never be able to get health insurance again if you drop coverage
I'm completely pessimistic anyway, and I'm going to just drop our health insurance completely soon. It makes absolutely no sense and I'm betting off just gambling and trying to protect my meager asserts if something happens.
posted by bongo_x at 4:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm completely pessimistic anyway, and I'm going to just drop our health insurance completely soon. It makes absolutely no sense and I'm betting off just gambling and trying to protect my meager asserts if something happens.
posted by bongo_x at 4:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, Comey is clearly taking his shot at being J Edgar Two? He's pretty young - he could wheedle and extort his way to at least as long as the Old Man.
posted by absalom at 4:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by absalom at 4:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Two thoughts on #watersportsgate:
1) Whether or not a specific bed was micturated on is beside the point. The big claim is that is that Russia had compromising material they used to blackmail Trump into taking pro-Russian positions. Trump has taken pro-Russian positions (and stubbornly and adamantly denied that Russia hacked the election for months). His pro-Russian positions are his most consistent positions. I conclude that he is working on Russia's behalf regardless of whether or not Tinkle Tailor Solider Spy actually occurred.
2) I know he's not alleged to have personally participated in the activity in question. I'm going to continue to make jokes at his expense that imply that he did. It's funny, it demeans him, and it will stick to him (ew). It's his "I can see Russia from my house." (Which stuck to Sarah Palin even thought it was Sarah Palin.)
posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
1) Whether or not a specific bed was micturated on is beside the point. The big claim is that is that Russia had compromising material they used to blackmail Trump into taking pro-Russian positions. Trump has taken pro-Russian positions (and stubbornly and adamantly denied that Russia hacked the election for months). His pro-Russian positions are his most consistent positions. I conclude that he is working on Russia's behalf regardless of whether or not Tinkle Tailor Solider Spy actually occurred.
2) I know he's not alleged to have personally participated in the activity in question. I'm going to continue to make jokes at his expense that imply that he did. It's funny, it demeans him, and it will stick to him (ew). It's his "I can see Russia from my house." (Which stuck to Sarah Palin even thought it was Sarah Palin.)
posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Does "if you drop coverage" include "if coverage is dropped for you because you changed or lost employment?" Or am I expected to be indentured for life to whoever deigns to hire me?
posted by delfin at 4:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by delfin at 4:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can see Russia from my house. Why is the rain yellow?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:04 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:04 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Which stuck to Sarah Palin even thought it was Sarah Palin.)
I think you meant 'even though it was Tina Fey'.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:04 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think you meant 'even though it was Tina Fey'.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:04 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I woke up to the news about the ACA vote (seriously, it would be wonderful to stop waking up to horrible news from America). When the ACA was passed, I got pretty emotional. The coverage for preexisting conditions removed one of the biggest obstacles for me if I decided I wanted to live in the states again. In college, I fell. That fall, one time, on a cold winter night, led to three back surgeries over three years, and could be easily linked to the new disc herniation that's developed over the last few weeks. That new herniation is going to require treatment and therapy, and, going forward, it looks like the preexisting conditions clause of ACA is going to be overturned, too, which pretty much closes the door on ever living in the states again for me. The back bone is connected, you see, to any possible bone an insurance adjuster wants to say it is. Bad knees? Probably caused by overcompensating to deal with back pain. Kidney issues? Probably linked to a lifetime of taking ibuprofen to deal with chronic pain. And that's saying nothing about the other discs in my back that will slowly deteriorate over time. I'm essentially uninsurable according to American policies. As is my sister, my uncle, and a ton of people I know and love, as well as people you know and love.
The ACA isn't perfect because it couldn't be. It's a compromise, as is all legislation. However, this compromise was between people who view access to healthcare as a human right and those who feel healthcare is a luxury item. As we saw with the politician from Michigan who let his son suffer through the night with what was determined to be a broken arm in order to show his political conviction that people are using their insurance too much, even though he had full coverage from the state, the party that just opened the door repealing the ACA think its better that you just try to gut your way through your sciatica, through your migraines, your torn muscles.
As for me, I just had an MRI, visited two doctors (one a specialist), and had two physical therapy appointments in the space of a week. Last week I could barely stand. This week, my pain is manageable, I am able to return to work. It cost me $75, total because I live in a country that has national health insurance. It's not without its flaws, but nothing is, and it's a damn sight better than what's coming (back) to the States.
(I wrote that earlier and posted it on Facebook, so forgive the 101 type stuff in there, I was also writing to people who earnestly believe that universal health care is a horrible idea, and trying to explain to them that it's actually pretty fantastic)
posted by Ghidorah at 4:06 PM on January 12, 2017 [32 favorites]
The ACA isn't perfect because it couldn't be. It's a compromise, as is all legislation. However, this compromise was between people who view access to healthcare as a human right and those who feel healthcare is a luxury item. As we saw with the politician from Michigan who let his son suffer through the night with what was determined to be a broken arm in order to show his political conviction that people are using their insurance too much, even though he had full coverage from the state, the party that just opened the door repealing the ACA think its better that you just try to gut your way through your sciatica, through your migraines, your torn muscles.
As for me, I just had an MRI, visited two doctors (one a specialist), and had two physical therapy appointments in the space of a week. Last week I could barely stand. This week, my pain is manageable, I am able to return to work. It cost me $75, total because I live in a country that has national health insurance. It's not without its flaws, but nothing is, and it's a damn sight better than what's coming (back) to the States.
(I wrote that earlier and posted it on Facebook, so forgive the 101 type stuff in there, I was also writing to people who earnestly believe that universal health care is a horrible idea, and trying to explain to them that it's actually pretty fantastic)
posted by Ghidorah at 4:06 PM on January 12, 2017 [32 favorites]
Not satisfied with blocking the US budget that one time, Ted Cruz proposes defunding the entire United Nations.
posted by lazugod at 4:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lazugod at 4:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Does "if you drop coverage" include "if coverage is dropped for you because you changed or lost employment?" Or am I expected to be indentured for life to whoever deigns to hire me?
Making the worker dependent on their employer is the entire point of the American health insurance industry. So yes, you are expected to be indentured.
posted by vibrotronica at 4:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Making the worker dependent on their employer is the entire point of the American health insurance industry. So yes, you are expected to be indentured.
posted by vibrotronica at 4:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
BuzzFeed sells $25,000 in 'failing pile of garbage' merchandise, will donate all proceeds to press-freedom group
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
What is the timeline we are looking at re: ACA possible repeal? It's looking like scheduling a consultation about getting an IUD is a very good idea.
posted by geegollygosh at 4:19 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by geegollygosh at 4:19 PM on January 12, 2017
From my understanding, if you have 2017 insurance, you have it for the year. I have to get an IUD replaced this year, as well.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm commenting a bit late here, but zombieflanders, that article from the Russian journalist you linked to is terrifying.
posted by bibliowench at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
At a minimum coverage you have today will continue through the end of the year. If Congress acts fast and passes a bill that repeals without delay, 2018 will not have exchanges, subsidies, or the mandate and the private market may or may not exist depending on your state. If they take the more likely path and delay, we may still have all of that in 2018. Also, if they take their time passing bills and go much past the middle of March, nothing much will be different in 2018 because contracts will already be submitted to state regulators for approval.
posted by zrail at 4:23 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zrail at 4:23 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Making the worker dependent on their employer is the entire point of the American health insurance industry. So yes, you are expected to be indentured.
And for those of us who are so sick we're unemployable, too bad.
posted by mochapickle at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
And for those of us who are so sick we're unemployable, too bad.
posted by mochapickle at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Making the worker dependent on their employer is the entire point of the American health insurance industry. So yes, you are expected to be indentured.
Which is very comforting in industries where Financial Concerns Causing Departmental Restructuring With Resultant Reductions In Force happen regularly.
I am actually about to hit the exchanges and apply for 2017 ACA coverage, once my unemployment benefits kick in and I have an accurate picture of what it will cost and what my finances will be. I am under no illusions that it will last long. But the most comforting part will be that my mother, once she hears that her son is signing up for Communist Obamacare, will have a full-on Roger-Rabbit-eye-pop dynamite-to-the-brain-stem aneurysmic freakout. As someone who brought a fucking MAGA drink cozy to a funeral, she deserves it, and imagining that will help me sleep at night.
posted by delfin at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Which is very comforting in industries where Financial Concerns Causing Departmental Restructuring With Resultant Reductions In Force happen regularly.
I am actually about to hit the exchanges and apply for 2017 ACA coverage, once my unemployment benefits kick in and I have an accurate picture of what it will cost and what my finances will be. I am under no illusions that it will last long. But the most comforting part will be that my mother, once she hears that her son is signing up for Communist Obamacare, will have a full-on Roger-Rabbit-eye-pop dynamite-to-the-brain-stem aneurysmic freakout. As someone who brought a fucking MAGA drink cozy to a funeral, she deserves it, and imagining that will help me sleep at night.
posted by delfin at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Does "if you drop coverage" include "if coverage is dropped for you because you changed or lost employment?" Or am I expected to be indentured for life to whoever deigns to hire me?
Of course not! You just have to be a 'real' enough employee to qualify for COBRA, be financially secure enough to keep up with COBRA premiums without income (even in the face of a financial crisis like, oh, say, a health problem after job loss), and make sure you either get rehired before the eligibility period expires, or can afford to buy an individual plan on the private market.
But don't worry, soon you'll be able to buy an affordable Florida based Oxycontin/Defibrillation/Burial-only plan in all 50 states, without regard to preexisting conditions.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course not! You just have to be a 'real' enough employee to qualify for COBRA, be financially secure enough to keep up with COBRA premiums without income (even in the face of a financial crisis like, oh, say, a health problem after job loss), and make sure you either get rehired before the eligibility period expires, or can afford to buy an individual plan on the private market.
But don't worry, soon you'll be able to buy an affordable Florida based Oxycontin/Defibrillation/Burial-only plan in all 50 states, without regard to preexisting conditions.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Act now. Buy our burial punch card and get a free LL Bean polo!
posted by mochapickle at 4:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mochapickle at 4:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's ok. Health care costs will be way lower because we'll all be dead from the measles if the anti-vaxers get their way.
posted by zachlipton at 4:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was exposed to a rare and disgusting parasite a few years back and have antibodies suggesting a minor/latent infection. I require periodic blood tests to check on this and as it stands I have maybe a 1/10 chance of eventually developing symptomatic illness. The actual cost of the test is low but the charge without insurance is bonkers. If/when I get booted from my Medicaid Expansion coverage, I will not be able to afford this testing and will have to forgo it.
If I do in fact develop the illness without it being caught immediately by a blood test, the symptoms and prognosis are similar to liver cancer except instead of tumors, your liver (sometimes lungs or brain too) is replaced with a mass of worm-cysts. Treatment for late-stage worm cancer is expensive and prolonged, sometimes including liver transplant. One way or the other, the cost of whatever treatment broke-and-wormy-Rust manages to get will go onto the taxpayer. America: what a country!
Not sure what the point of sharing this is other than I would like to keep having insurance.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
If I do in fact develop the illness without it being caught immediately by a blood test, the symptoms and prognosis are similar to liver cancer except instead of tumors, your liver (sometimes lungs or brain too) is replaced with a mass of worm-cysts. Treatment for late-stage worm cancer is expensive and prolonged, sometimes including liver transplant. One way or the other, the cost of whatever treatment broke-and-wormy-Rust manages to get will go onto the taxpayer. America: what a country!
Not sure what the point of sharing this is other than I would like to keep having insurance.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [37 favorites]
I think, adjust pre ACA meant coverage lapse no more than 30 days between employment for pre existing exclusion .
And excluding whole diagnosis thing. Don't get me started about Mental health, (eating disorders I'm looking at you bsbs louisianana circa 2008). And Max limits. Oh your cancer cost a half million to treat but not yet in remission? Insurance says: to fucking bad.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
And excluding whole diagnosis thing. Don't get me started about Mental health, (eating disorders I'm looking at you bsbs louisianana circa 2008). And Max limits. Oh your cancer cost a half million to treat but not yet in remission? Insurance says: to fucking bad.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Are max limits for sure going away? I've racked up $500K in healthcare in the past six months alone, and my saving grace was the max OOP limit.
posted by mochapickle at 4:44 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by mochapickle at 4:44 PM on January 12, 2017
The spineless Republican Senators dropped their objections to repeal-and-delay I guess? So it's on, the worst case scenario: repeal the mandate and the subsidies but maintain the regulations like pre-existing condition coverage.
Essentially this means the individual market will no longer exist in 2 years. Unless you are very rich you will not be able to get coverage except through an employer.
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Essentially this means the individual market will no longer exist in 2 years. Unless you are very rich you will not be able to get coverage except through an employer.
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
seems strange that they picked the black guy to write white out
FTFY
posted by carmicha at 4:46 PM on January 12, 2017
FTFY
posted by carmicha at 4:46 PM on January 12, 2017
Are max limits for sure going away? I've racked up $500K in healthcare in the past six months alone, and my saving grace was the max OOP limit.
Well, once the insurers can do whatever the hell they please, you'll see no max OOP, but a max/cap on benefits. i.e., a policy limit.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:46 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, once the insurers can do whatever the hell they please, you'll see no max OOP, but a max/cap on benefits. i.e., a policy limit.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:46 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't believe they can change the ban on policy limits without passing a filibuster. So you won't be getting a policy with a limit. You'll be getting no policy at all.
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Please excuse my spelling on high emotions and distractibility . I was referring to policy limits which were a thing excluded by the ACA.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:48 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:48 PM on January 12, 2017
Essentially this means the individual market will no longer exist in 2 years. Unless you are very rich you will not be able to get coverage except through an employer.
At which point those requirements, too, will be abandoned and we'll get race-to-the-bottom plans sold across state borders.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:48 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
At which point those requirements, too, will be abandoned and we'll get race-to-the-bottom plans sold across state borders.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:48 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think so; I think the Democrats will hold firm and make the Republicans eat the pain they're causing. That's what they should do anyway.
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hope so. I'm skeptical they will when people are literally dying for any coverage, at all.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:51 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:51 PM on January 12, 2017
At a minimum coverage you have today will continue through the end of the year.
Whatever people recognize as the last year for Obamacare is gonna be fuckin' brutal on the insurance companies as ninety bazillion people schedule the knee replacements etc that they kinda-need already.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Whatever people recognize as the last year for Obamacare is gonna be fuckin' brutal on the insurance companies as ninety bazillion people schedule the knee replacements etc that they kinda-need already.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:51 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
The spineless Republican Senators dropped their objections to repeal-and-delay I guess?
It looks like Corker withdrew his amendment that had Republican votes for "no repeal without replace". I'm not sure why and am really curious on how that went down, if it existed just to ID rebels, etc.
posted by corb at 4:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
It looks like Corker withdrew his amendment that had Republican votes for "no repeal without replace". I'm not sure why and am really curious on how that went down, if it existed just to ID rebels, etc.
posted by corb at 4:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rou, I don't think so. There are only so many Medicaid knee surgeons, and they are already pretty booked honestly. Many of common needed things are out of because we really haven't gotten through the backlog of ignored needs yet with the ACA in place.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The spineless Republican Senators dropped their objections to repeal-and-delay I guess? So it's on, the worst case scenario: repeal the mandate and the subsidies but maintain the regulations like pre-existing condition coverage.
Don't worry, their fellow moderate conservatives are telling us you can't just expect NeverTrump Republicans to focus on such piddling issues while they're fighting the good fight against fascism. You know, fascism like PoC having the right to vote, tax hikes for the rich and tax cuts for the poor, and women getting cancer screenings. You have to remember that it's Trump that's the monster, not the obviously very nice people taking health care away from millions of people, with a focus on the poor, and extra care to strip it away from women and children.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Don't worry, their fellow moderate conservatives are telling us you can't just expect NeverTrump Republicans to focus on such piddling issues while they're fighting the good fight against fascism. You know, fascism like PoC having the right to vote, tax hikes for the rich and tax cuts for the poor, and women getting cancer screenings. You have to remember that it's Trump that's the monster, not the obviously very nice people taking health care away from millions of people, with a focus on the poor, and extra care to strip it away from women and children.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:55 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just meant that a whole lot of people are going to schedule as much as they can before they lose their coverage, not knees specifically.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:56 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am hopeful California will take over for those of us lucky enough to live in a good state. The CA marketplace is independent and self-sufficient. So it should be easy, what with Democratic supermajorities here, to pass some equivalent to Romneycare.
Sorry to those of you who live in most of the country.
posted by Justinian at 4:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sorry to those of you who live in most of the country.
posted by Justinian at 4:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
And I'm saying that with many things, there are only so many professionals and a huge backlog from pre ACA times, so there isn't room for should get this done before it gets bad.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rudy Giuliani's cyber company website runs FreeBSD from a decade ago. There's no firewall. IMAP, MySQL etc. With old Joomla. Amazing.--@GossiTheDog
This will end poorly.
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
And I'm saying that with many things, there are only so many professionals and a huge backlog from pre ACA times, so there isn't room for should get this done before it gets bad.
Happy to be corrected, not happy about the facts.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:02 PM on January 12, 2017
Happy to be corrected, not happy about the facts.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:02 PM on January 12, 2017
This will end poorly.
I'll say. Netcraft confirmed FreeBSD was dead over a decade ago.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'll say. Netcraft confirmed FreeBSD was dead over a decade ago.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Amy Berg @bergopolis
Not only are they blank, but if this were my set I would fire the propmaster for lack of realism. They are that fake.
Heh.
posted by Talez at 5:06 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Not only are they blank, but if this were my set I would fire the propmaster for lack of realism. They are that fake.
Heh.
posted by Talez at 5:06 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I am hopeful California will take over for those of us lucky enough to live in a good state. The CA marketplace is independent and self-sufficient. So it should be easy, what with Democratic supermajorities here, to pass some equivalent to Romneycare.
That's true and I live in CA too, for now.
I remain curious about the possibility that haphazard enough deregulation by the conservatives might enable interested states to assemble their own common quasi-public single payer system.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's true and I live in CA too, for now.
I remain curious about the possibility that haphazard enough deregulation by the conservatives might enable interested states to assemble their own common quasi-public single payer system.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I remain curious about the possibility that haphazard enough deregulation by the conservatives might enable interested states to assemble their own common quasi-public single payer system.
I was just typing something like this out, glad I checked new comments! If the ACA goes away, and they try this ridiculous "let everyone sell insurance across state lines" non-solution, I do wonder if the sane states could make this happen. Get together and create a jointly-owned insurance company to get a big risk pool and provider network spread across several states and then grow that to other states, with its power to bargain with the medical and pharmaceutical industry growing as it grows. No idea if this is financially sound or what, but the basic idea is intriguing.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:10 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
I was just typing something like this out, glad I checked new comments! If the ACA goes away, and they try this ridiculous "let everyone sell insurance across state lines" non-solution, I do wonder if the sane states could make this happen. Get together and create a jointly-owned insurance company to get a big risk pool and provider network spread across several states and then grow that to other states, with its power to bargain with the medical and pharmaceutical industry growing as it grows. No idea if this is financially sound or what, but the basic idea is intriguing.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:10 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
I should note that "self-sufficient" in my statement about the CA marketplace was overbroad. I meant that it is handled by the state. But it does depend on federal subsidies which would have to be replaced by the state in the form of higher taxes. So it will be a controversial thing.
But if you can't use democratic supermajorities to do health care when it is being stripped from your citizens then what the fuck good are you?
posted by Justinian at 5:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
But if you can't use democratic supermajorities to do health care when it is being stripped from your citizens then what the fuck good are you?
posted by Justinian at 5:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Outside Mattis hearing, Inhofe says Trump's comments comparing intel leaks to "Nazi Germany" show the president elect's "sense of humor"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:13 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:13 PM on January 12, 2017
No idea if this is financially sound or what, but the basic idea is intriguing.
Yeah, it's a recurrent thought once you have it. Because it's elegant if it works. (What are the libertarians going to complain about if it takes over by market forces?) I mentioned it a few threads back, too.
The people who specialize in policy in this area have to have thought of this, right?
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:13 PM on January 12, 2017
Yeah, it's a recurrent thought once you have it. Because it's elegant if it works. (What are the libertarians going to complain about if it takes over by market forces?) I mentioned it a few threads back, too.
The people who specialize in policy in this area have to have thought of this, right?
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:13 PM on January 12, 2017
The problem is that without an individual mandate people only sign up for that when they are sick, so the people on such a multi-state plan would be extraordinarily expensive. So it would only work if the states in question passed their own state mandates with penalties.
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on January 12, 2017
A nice detail here:
Clapper: So that's it. We have to tell him about this stuff or we'll all look like we have no idea what we're doing if it leaks out in the press.
Brennan: You mean when it leaks out in the press.
Rogers: *too busy watching some intercepted webcam feed to care*
Comey: Our credibility is on the line, and nothing is as important to me as my credibility
Clapper: So who's going to be the one to tell him?
Rogers: Well it certainly isn't NSA intelligence, so I'm out
Brennan: I'm sort of in a senior spring mode with my job right now, so doing that just isn't going to work for me.
Clapper: Well, I'm in charge and so I'm sure as hell not going to discuss golden showers with the President-elect
Comey: ...
All: ...
Brennan: James, you got him elected. If anyone's taking the piss here, it's you.
posted by zachlipton at 5:17 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's during that pull aside that Comey briefed the president-elect on the two-page synopsis of the Russian claims. All four intelligence chiefs had decided that Comey would be the one who would handle the sensitive discussion with the president elect.A transcript of the intelligence chiefs planning their briefing [fake]:
Clapper: So that's it. We have to tell him about this stuff or we'll all look like we have no idea what we're doing if it leaks out in the press.
Brennan: You mean when it leaks out in the press.
Rogers: *too busy watching some intercepted webcam feed to care*
Comey: Our credibility is on the line, and nothing is as important to me as my credibility
Clapper: So who's going to be the one to tell him?
Rogers: Well it certainly isn't NSA intelligence, so I'm out
Brennan: I'm sort of in a senior spring mode with my job right now, so doing that just isn't going to work for me.
Clapper: Well, I'm in charge and so I'm sure as hell not going to discuss golden showers with the President-elect
Comey: ...
All: ...
Brennan: James, you got him elected. If anyone's taking the piss here, it's you.
posted by zachlipton at 5:17 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
How did RomneyCare work?
Almost exactly like Obamacare; an individual mandate and subsidies to people to help them pay for it. I believe health care was free for anyone making below 150% of federal poverty level, then subsidies up from there.
It's possible to do, it just takes political will.
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Almost exactly like Obamacare; an individual mandate and subsidies to people to help them pay for it. I believe health care was free for anyone making below 150% of federal poverty level, then subsidies up from there.
It's possible to do, it just takes political will.
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
So it would only work if the states in question passed their own state mandates with penalties.
Which they could do, I suppose. And participation in the multi-state system could require those laws to be in place.
It would be another irony if a narrowed Commerce Clause power under a more conservative SCOTUS kept the GOP from invalidating such state laws.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:20 PM on January 12, 2017
Which they could do, I suppose. And participation in the multi-state system could require those laws to be in place.
It would be another irony if a narrowed Commerce Clause power under a more conservative SCOTUS kept the GOP from invalidating such state laws.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:20 PM on January 12, 2017
The problem is that without an individual mandate people only sign up for that when they are sick, so the people on such a multi-state plan would be extraordinarily expensive. So it would only work if the states in question passed their own state mandates with penalties.
It would definitely require a set of standards that member states have to meet to join up - I'm sure they could have some kind of ALEC-for-good model legislation on hand to shop around to the states that join. A lot of states that took the Medicaid expansion might be receptive to something that works, if it can be shown to work. And if it works well, that money saved (and money circulating in those states' economies that isn't being drained away by health catastrophes!) will talk. As will the people voting with their feet if moving one state over can save their life.
Yeah, it's a recurrent thought once you have it. Because it's elegant if it works. I mentioned it a few threads back, too.
It's also making me wonder about other areas where "You want devolution and states' rights? We'll show you evolution of states' rights!" approaches may work.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
It would definitely require a set of standards that member states have to meet to join up - I'm sure they could have some kind of ALEC-for-good model legislation on hand to shop around to the states that join. A lot of states that took the Medicaid expansion might be receptive to something that works, if it can be shown to work. And if it works well, that money saved (and money circulating in those states' economies that isn't being drained away by health catastrophes!) will talk. As will the people voting with their feet if moving one state over can save their life.
Yeah, it's a recurrent thought once you have it. Because it's elegant if it works. I mentioned it a few threads back, too.
It's also making me wonder about other areas where "You want devolution and states' rights? We'll show you evolution of states' rights!" approaches may work.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
How did RomneyCare work?
By virtue of a white Republican man getting the credit.
posted by Etrigan at 5:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [62 favorites]
By virtue of a white Republican man getting the credit.
posted by Etrigan at 5:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [62 favorites]
I encourage everyone with stories of why they need the ACA protections and/or coverage to share those stories on any social media you are on and share them widely. Republicans have controlled the conversation about Obamacare for years but people need to hear the real stories about what it's like to be sick in America (and other countries with different systems.) I've done this repeatedly in the past few weeks by sharing my experiences with ACA coverage. People need to know who in their circles is at risk. I've also written my story in emails to my representatives in Congress and called them multiple times. I've found leaving VM messages about the issue in a broken and shaking-with-anger voice about how disgusted I am with my Republican Senators to be pretty therapeutic.
posted by threeturtles at 5:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 5:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
A little bit of good news today: Three new civil rights/black history monuments in South Carolina. Obama also expanded the California Coastal and Cascade-Siskiyou National Monuments. The Washington Post story on the new proclamations has this little bit of inspiration:
posted by compartment at 5:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oregon outfitter David Willis, who has spent 34 years fighting to first establish the [Cascade-Siskiyou] monument and then extend it, said the region serves as a land bridge to “a veritable Noah’s Ark of biodiversity.”Persistence helps.
Willis was so dogged about pushing for federal protection that in the 1990s he mailed an Interior employee material about the region every day for three weeks, until he got an in-person meeting with then-Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt.
posted by compartment at 5:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Another approach blue states can adopt by banding together to subvert Republican states' rights expectations is similar to how California gets us better emissions standards and Texas gets us shittier textbooks: "meet our standards or lose our market". There's a LOT of weight that can be thrown around by populous states getting on the same page there.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:42 PM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:42 PM on January 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Ooh, heads up: the Countable app just pushed a notification that they're collecting and supposedly passing on video messages about what you'd like to see from the Trump administration. Have fun!
posted by jason_steakums at 5:44 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:44 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Another approach blue states can adopt by banding together to subvert Republican states' rights expectations is similar to how California gets us better emissions standards and Texas gets us shittier textbooks: "meet our standards or lose our market". There's a LOT of weight that can be thrown around by populous states getting on the same page there.
This should also apply for Presidential disclosures and voting rights. California and New York should require tax returns to be made public in order to get on the ballot. And should pass universal registration.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 PM on January 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
This should also apply for Presidential disclosures and voting rights. California and New York should require tax returns to be made public in order to get on the ballot. And should pass universal registration.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 PM on January 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
California and New York should require tax returns to be made public in order to get on the ballot.
What does it take to get an initiative like that on CA's ballot?
posted by zrail at 5:56 PM on January 12, 2017
What does it take to get an initiative like that on CA's ballot?
posted by zrail at 5:56 PM on January 12, 2017
> When someone who holds odious beliefs aligns with a company, it's obviously beyond its control. However, it is incumbent on that company to immediately disavow that individual
I disagree. It's good when they do -- I bought Christmas presents from Penzey's for that very reason -- but just because Trump puts a company on the spot doesn't mean we have to go along with him.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I disagree. It's good when they do -- I bought Christmas presents from Penzey's for that very reason -- but just because Trump puts a company on the spot doesn't mean we have to go along with him.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republicans are threatening the head of the Office of Government Ethics for criticizing Trump (thread on Twitter)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Top trending searches on itunes store right now include "vpn" and "signal".
This is your semi-monthly reminder to encrypt everything. Even if you have nothing to fear, more people using encryption protects all of us. Start here. Or here. Or here. Or here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [43 favorites]
This is your semi-monthly reminder to encrypt everything. Even if you have nothing to fear, more people using encryption protects all of us. Start here. Or here. Or here. Or here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [43 favorites]
What does it take to get an initiative like that on CA's ballot?
They've already introduced a bill to that effect in the CA legislature.
posted by zachlipton at 6:10 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
They've already introduced a bill to that effect in the CA legislature.
posted by zachlipton at 6:10 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
California and New York should require tax returns to be made public in order to get on the ballot.
What does it take to get an initiative like that on CA's ballot?
CA legislators are already trying to make it happen.
Not sure if there have been updates since then.
posted by aka burlap at 6:12 PM on January 12, 2017
What does it take to get an initiative like that on CA's ballot?
CA legislators are already trying to make it happen.
Not sure if there have been updates since then.
posted by aka burlap at 6:12 PM on January 12, 2017
(d'oh, didn't preview!)
posted by aka burlap at 6:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by aka burlap at 6:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
just because Trump puts a company on the spot doesn't mean we have to go along with him.
You're leaving out that middle step: What does the company do about it?
posted by Etrigan at 6:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
You're leaving out that middle step: What does the company do about it?
posted by Etrigan at 6:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Donald Trump and his sons will never talk business again
Donald Trump has been blessed with two tall and healthy adult sons who have slain numerous wild beasts using only sticks that spit fire. They are married to human women, and their hair is sleek and glossy like the back of a marmot. They possess the right number of teeth. Donald Trump loves to speak to them and give them his counsel, and the one great tragedy of his upcoming presidency is that he will no longer be able to talk business with them. How can he? They will be managing the Trump Organization in trust, and he has vowed not to know anything about its deals and doings until he reads about it in the newspaper — or, to be realistic, sees it on TV. Taking him at his word, here is what the next year will look like.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Donald Trump has been blessed with two tall and healthy adult sons who have slain numerous wild beasts using only sticks that spit fire. They are married to human women, and their hair is sleek and glossy like the back of a marmot. They possess the right number of teeth. Donald Trump loves to speak to them and give them his counsel, and the one great tragedy of his upcoming presidency is that he will no longer be able to talk business with them. How can he? They will be managing the Trump Organization in trust, and he has vowed not to know anything about its deals and doings until he reads about it in the newspaper — or, to be realistic, sees it on TV. Taking him at his word, here is what the next year will look like.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
California and New York should require tax returns to be made public in order to get on the ballot.
Such a law has been introduced in California, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, and New York.
posted by peeedro at 6:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Such a law has been introduced in California, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, and New York.
posted by peeedro at 6:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Though it is meaningless until a swing state does it. It would sure make the popular vote look bad though.
posted by Justinian at 6:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 6:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let's note for the sake of disgusting irony that Ryan's proposed Medicare replacement is structurally the same as the ACA.
Unless you are very rich you will not be able to get coverage except through an employer.
Or the state prison system. Not that many people made half-hearted attempts to rob banks in order to get locked up for prison healthcare, but it was a number greater than zero.
posted by holgate at 6:28 PM on January 12, 2017
Unless you are very rich you will not be able to get coverage except through an employer.
Or the state prison system. Not that many people made half-hearted attempts to rob banks in order to get locked up for prison healthcare, but it was a number greater than zero.
posted by holgate at 6:28 PM on January 12, 2017
Or the state prison system. Not that many people made half-hearted attempts to rob banks in order to get locked up for prison healthcare, but it was a number greater than zero.
No they have co-pays in prison systems now.
posted by Talez at 6:30 PM on January 12, 2017
No they have co-pays in prison systems now.
posted by Talez at 6:30 PM on January 12, 2017
Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Donald Trump and his sons will never talk business again
Why does the media keep debating How To Cover Trump when the answer - hilarious, elaborate fanfiction - has been staring them in the face all along?
posted by theodolite at 6:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Why does the media keep debating How To Cover Trump when the answer - hilarious, elaborate fanfiction - has been staring them in the face all along?
posted by theodolite at 6:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Report: Paul Anka to Sing ‘My Way’ for Trump Inauguration
According to Radar Online, 75-year-old crooner Paul Anka will perform his most famous song, “My Way,” at Donald Trump’s inauguration, with the lyrics re-written for his long-time friend and incoming president. “Paul was asked by the members of the Trump inauguration committee and he was only too happy to do it for his longtime friend,” one insider told the tabloid outlet. The source indicated that Anka’s special version of the Frank Sinatra classic would be performed during the inaugural dance between Trump and his wife Melania Trump.
A redditor has re-written the lyrics for Anka:
"My Way"
And now, the end is near
And so I bring the iron curtain
My friend, live life in fear
You'll be erased, victory I'm certain
The camps are all crammed full
guns on each and every highway
And more, much more sad than this, you voted for my way
Regrets, You've had a few
But then again, it's to late for dissention
Execute those traitors few and saw it through without exemption
I played you well of course, your rallies proud and filled with my name
And now my friend, realize this here, you'll do it my way
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
That you bit off more than you could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
You took the truth and spit it out
You made the halls of freedom fall and did it my way
Oh you've loved, You've laughed and cried
You've had your fill, those traitors losing
And now, as tears subside, I find it all so amusing
To think you fell for all of that
And now point my guns to you I knew you'd say
"Oh, no, oh, no, not me! I did it your way!"
For what is a man, what has he got?
Out for himself, hold down the necks of those who have naught
To hate the things he truly feels and bring his fellow man to kneel
The record shows you betrayed your country's soul and did it my way
posted by futz at 6:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
According to Radar Online, 75-year-old crooner Paul Anka will perform his most famous song, “My Way,” at Donald Trump’s inauguration, with the lyrics re-written for his long-time friend and incoming president. “Paul was asked by the members of the Trump inauguration committee and he was only too happy to do it for his longtime friend,” one insider told the tabloid outlet. The source indicated that Anka’s special version of the Frank Sinatra classic would be performed during the inaugural dance between Trump and his wife Melania Trump.
A redditor has re-written the lyrics for Anka:
"My Way"
And now, the end is near
And so I bring the iron curtain
My friend, live life in fear
You'll be erased, victory I'm certain
The camps are all crammed full
guns on each and every highway
And more, much more sad than this, you voted for my way
Regrets, You've had a few
But then again, it's to late for dissention
Execute those traitors few and saw it through without exemption
I played you well of course, your rallies proud and filled with my name
And now my friend, realize this here, you'll do it my way
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
That you bit off more than you could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
You took the truth and spit it out
You made the halls of freedom fall and did it my way
Oh you've loved, You've laughed and cried
You've had your fill, those traitors losing
And now, as tears subside, I find it all so amusing
To think you fell for all of that
And now point my guns to you I knew you'd say
"Oh, no, oh, no, not me! I did it your way!"
For what is a man, what has he got?
Out for himself, hold down the necks of those who have naught
To hate the things he truly feels and bring his fellow man to kneel
The record shows you betrayed your country's soul and did it my way
posted by futz at 6:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
fanfiction
Yeah, that's one of Petri's better ones, innit?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, that's one of Petri's better ones, innit?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Have you ever heard of compassionate releases for people are very sick and in prison? It happens more than you would think. All of a sudden the state is willing to let a prisoner go... Without healthcare. (Please note currently already in IL all released prisoners are eligible for Medicaid provided they are a citizen )
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that Paul Anka the Gilmore Girls dog is more popular and culturally relevant than Paul Anka the singer these days.
posted by TwoStride at 6:35 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:35 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
I thought Paul Anka said "Just don't look... just don't look".
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:38 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
As someone with an autism spectrum disorder (specifically Nonverbal Learning Disorder) and as someone who cares about scientific literacy, I have a deep contempt for anti-vaxxers. Spectrum disorders are misunderstood and stigmatized enough as it is.
As someone who relies on my parents' insurance for health care and is planning to use Social Security to help support my income at grad school, I'm furious at the Republicans and the people who got them into the position to do this.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
As someone who relies on my parents' insurance for health care and is planning to use Social Security to help support my income at grad school, I'm furious at the Republicans and the people who got them into the position to do this.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
you're sucking up gravy
what a lovely way of saying how much you're hungry
posted by pyramid termite at 6:42 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
what a lovely way of saying how much you're hungry
posted by pyramid termite at 6:42 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Report: Paul Anka to Sing ‘My Way’ for Trump Inauguration
Congrats to Trump for getting his first pick
posted by beerperson at 6:50 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Congrats to Trump for getting his first pick
posted by beerperson at 6:50 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Are we down to what's what? Trump is a fucking asshole, and his buddies are assholes, and none of them care about us. Forget about health care, forget about human rights, these guys are going to roll back anything you thought was good and take all they can. Because they can. And there is no one to stop them. No Dem or Rep will stop them from ripping us all off, and we will all watch them in horror, but no one will do one damn thing about it. Not here, or overseas. We will all stand still and watch them do it, because there is no one who has the balls to stand up to these assholes.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
The nmap results for Rudy911's firm, along with all the other stuff (FreeBSD 6.x, old PHP, old Joomla, old SSL cert, dupe SSH key) yell to me "no sysadmin since 2013". That server's going to be owned before tomorrow morning unless someone pulls the plug.
posted by holgate at 7:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by holgate at 7:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [25 favorites]
Report: Paul Anka to Sing ‘My Way’ for Trump Inauguration
Well another thing I like (the song) that will be forever tainted. Donald has really made it clear to me just how powerful the emotional and association part of branding something is. I've experience in popular media when and actor does something horrible or you find out something awful and then I can't watch their work the same way or even at all anymore. (Woody Allen, Mel Gibson). It's not just about some principle it's entirely about feelings.
Today two brands and two things I like make me feel icky just thinking about them. Happened in an instant too. Just 'oh, well, that's done for me now'.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well another thing I like (the song) that will be forever tainted. Donald has really made it clear to me just how powerful the emotional and association part of branding something is. I've experience in popular media when and actor does something horrible or you find out something awful and then I can't watch their work the same way or even at all anymore. (Woody Allen, Mel Gibson). It's not just about some principle it's entirely about feelings.
Today two brands and two things I like make me feel icky just thinking about them. Happened in an instant too. Just 'oh, well, that's done for me now'.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
That server's going to be owned before tomorrow morning unless someone pulls the plug.
We can only hope so.
posted by CommonSense at 7:14 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
We can only hope so.
posted by CommonSense at 7:14 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
No Dem or Rep will stop them from ripping us all off, and we will all watch them in horror, but no one will do one damn thing about it.
This is not accurate. Republicans are choosing this future. Real, live, human beings are choosing to destroy the lives of their countrymen. Allegedly 'moderate' Republicans are choosing to let it happen.
Every terrible outcome in this thread, and all of the #election2016 threads, all of it could be stopped tomorrow by a few Republicans deciding to care about other living human beings.
They don't. They won't. Ever. We need to remember where the blame lies. It lies with the Republican party and every individual person you know in your own life who voted for them. These are conscious choices, made with specific intent to punish millions of people for greed, or for having the wrong skin color, or for daring to not vote Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
This is not accurate. Republicans are choosing this future. Real, live, human beings are choosing to destroy the lives of their countrymen. Allegedly 'moderate' Republicans are choosing to let it happen.
Every terrible outcome in this thread, and all of the #election2016 threads, all of it could be stopped tomorrow by a few Republicans deciding to care about other living human beings.
They don't. They won't. Ever. We need to remember where the blame lies. It lies with the Republican party and every individual person you know in your own life who voted for them. These are conscious choices, made with specific intent to punish millions of people for greed, or for having the wrong skin color, or for daring to not vote Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 PM on January 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
Report: Paul Anka to Sing ‘My Way’ for Trump Inauguration
Kinda funny that Anka's Canadian-American.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Kinda funny that Anka's Canadian-American.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think I can say with relative confidence that what "Giuliani Security" really sells is the first part of the company name and not the second, and that this is not an unfamiliar setup for that kind of company. It's brand and access.
posted by holgate at 7:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by holgate at 7:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Revealed: former British ambassador Sir Andrew Wood's key role in Trump investigation
-- The meeting took place at an international security conference in Halifax, Canada, last November, after Mr Trump’s victory. There, Mr McCain sought the advice of Sir Andrew, a highly respected retired diplomat, on a dossier which was put together by Christopher Steele, a former MI6 officer, about Mr Trump and the Moscow connection.
-- Mr McCain, the chair of the Senate armed forces committee, was so concerned by what he had heard that he personally met James Comey, the director of the FBI...
-- ...There were further claims that the Kremlin had been “grooming” the businessman for over five years to be, in effect, the “Moscovian Candidate” in the White House..
-- Under normal procedure the seriousness of the issue and the importance of the person in the centre of it, the President-elect of the US, would mean that the Prime Minister and the relevant members of her cabinet would be kept informed.
This means that as Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson would almost certainly have been told about the allegations by MI6 and would have been aware of them during his visit to America this week to meet officials close to Mr Trump.
Bolded by me only because I am curious as to whether or not boris and trumpski talked about it. Also has anyone else noticed that boris's 'hairdo' is probably what donnie's hairdo looks like before 'styling' and hairspray? Both are hair don'ts for sure.
posted by futz at 7:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
-- The meeting took place at an international security conference in Halifax, Canada, last November, after Mr Trump’s victory. There, Mr McCain sought the advice of Sir Andrew, a highly respected retired diplomat, on a dossier which was put together by Christopher Steele, a former MI6 officer, about Mr Trump and the Moscow connection.
-- Mr McCain, the chair of the Senate armed forces committee, was so concerned by what he had heard that he personally met James Comey, the director of the FBI...
-- ...There were further claims that the Kremlin had been “grooming” the businessman for over five years to be, in effect, the “Moscovian Candidate” in the White House..
-- Under normal procedure the seriousness of the issue and the importance of the person in the centre of it, the President-elect of the US, would mean that the Prime Minister and the relevant members of her cabinet would be kept informed.
This means that as Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson would almost certainly have been told about the allegations by MI6 and would have been aware of them during his visit to America this week to meet officials close to Mr Trump.
Bolded by me only because I am curious as to whether or not boris and trumpski talked about it. Also has anyone else noticed that boris's 'hairdo' is probably what donnie's hairdo looks like before 'styling' and hairspray? Both are hair don'ts for sure.
posted by futz at 7:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
http://www.giulianisecurity.com/index.php/us/
Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:41 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:41 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
holgate: That server's going to be owned before tomorrow morning unless someone pulls the plug.
No worries, Broseph: they're running TCP Wrappers! CHECK OUT SCREEN CAP
When I was installing Solaris 2.6, this stuff was state of the art....for like the year 1998. :7(
posted by wenestvedt at 7:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
No worries, Broseph: they're running TCP Wrappers! CHECK OUT SCREEN CAP
When I was installing Solaris 2.6, this stuff was state of the art....for like the year 1998. :7(
posted by wenestvedt at 7:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Report: Paul Anka to Sing ‘My Way’ for Trump Inauguration
here's hoping the old guy gets confused and segues into Having My Baby halfway through.
posted by philip-random at 7:57 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
here's hoping the old guy gets confused and segues into Having My Baby halfway through.
posted by philip-random at 7:57 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
David Ignatius for the WaPo:
posted by holgate at 8:04 PM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking. What did Flynn say, and did it undercut the U.S. sanctions? The Logan Act (though never enforced) bars U.S. citizens from correspondence intending to influence a foreign government about “disputes” with the United States. Was its spirit violated? The Trump campaign didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.We've already seen Kellyanne Duckspeak duckspeak as if her boss became de facto president from the day he was elected. We've seen multiple violations of the "one president at a time" principle, enough to toss it aside. The new normal is apparently "soft coup".
posted by holgate at 8:04 PM on January 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
The new normal is apparently "soft coup"
wouldn't "soft, sensual coup" be more appropriate?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
wouldn't "soft, sensual coup" be more appropriate?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
We've seen multiple violations of the "one president at a time" principle, enough to toss it aside. The new normal is apparently "soft coup".
IOKIYAR.
Nothing matters. There are no norms that Trump can break that the media or Republicans would even acknowledge happening when he does it, while they screamed the sky is falling at the mere suggestion Obama looked crossways at something approaching being related to the same thing.
The only norm that truly exists in this country is Republicans are our rightful rulers no matter their conduct, and Democrats are always illegitimate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
IOKIYAR.
Nothing matters. There are no norms that Trump can break that the media or Republicans would even acknowledge happening when he does it, while they screamed the sky is falling at the mere suggestion Obama looked crossways at something approaching being related to the same thing.
The only norm that truly exists in this country is Republicans are our rightful rulers no matter their conduct, and Democrats are always illegitimate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
I really think a circus arena analogy is apt:
we have a large amoral naraccist tiger who is lead around by others who attempt to entertain /distract the masses for their own end goals. The tiger does whatever it wants for whatever the reasons, and most of the time it plays along well enough that those in control, the tiger and most people don't care. Sure there's a set of people who protest, but eh somebody is making a good profit.
But the second the tiger kills someone, everybody is going to ask: why did you put a known predator in an enclosed space full of people and not expect him to kill someone?!
And the answer will be enough people bought tickets, enjoy the show.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
we have a large amoral naraccist tiger who is lead around by others who attempt to entertain /distract the masses for their own end goals. The tiger does whatever it wants for whatever the reasons, and most of the time it plays along well enough that those in control, the tiger and most people don't care. Sure there's a set of people who protest, but eh somebody is making a good profit.
But the second the tiger kills someone, everybody is going to ask: why did you put a known predator in an enclosed space full of people and not expect him to kill someone?!
And the answer will be enough people bought tickets, enjoy the show.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is a good twitter thread (to the extent such a thing can exist) on the problems with Paul Ryan's obsession with high risk pools (in short: you can underfund the heck out of them and tell the people in them to fuck off and die while keeping rates lower for everyone else).
posted by zachlipton at 8:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:58 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Rudy Giuliani's cyber company website runs FreeBSD from a decade ago. There's no firewall. IMAP, MySQL etc. With old Joomla. Amazing."
They're trolling us.
posted by monospace at 9:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're trolling us.
posted by monospace at 9:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Paul Anka will perform his most famous song, “My Way,” at Donald Trump’s inauguration, with the lyrics re-written for his long-time friend and incoming president
"Regrets, I've had a few" seems a likely candidate to be struck from the record.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Regrets, I've had a few" seems a likely candidate to be struck from the record.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:18 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The WashPo has a bit of a summary of Ben Carson's confirmation hearing:
Carson himself argued that success at HUD is within his grasp because he has the power of the human brain.posted by peeedro at 9:20 PM on January 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
“Billions of neurons, hundreds of billions of interconnections, can process more than 2 million bits of information in one second,” he told the committee. “Any brain can do that. . . . If you learn one new fact every second, it would take you more than 3 million years to challenge the capacity of your brain.”
Did they ask him why he previously declared himself unqualified for a cabinet position?
posted by PenDevil at 9:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 9:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
That is a very Ben Carson way of saying Trump's oft-quoted "I have a very good brain."
posted by gatorae at 9:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 9:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
If "Any brain can do that.." then why do we need Ben Carson?
posted by Nerd of the North at 9:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 9:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Billions of neurons, hundreds of billions of interconnections
Current estimates of average #'s in the human brain:
Neurons: 85 billion (ok)
Synapses: 0.15 quadrillion synapses (150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)
The average human brain has 150,000,000,000,000 more synapses than Ben Carson thinks that human brains have.
0.15 quadrillion is a larger number than the number stars in the milky way galaxy.
can process more than 2 million bits of information
Is gobbledygook.
posted by porpoise at 9:35 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Current estimates of average #'s in the human brain:
Neurons: 85 billion (ok)
Synapses: 0.15 quadrillion synapses (150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)
The average human brain has 150,000,000,000,000 more synapses than Ben Carson thinks that human brains have.
0.15 quadrillion is a larger number than the number stars in the milky way galaxy.
can process more than 2 million bits of information
Is gobbledygook.
posted by porpoise at 9:35 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Rep. Ted Lieu: I read the highly classified Intelligence Report on #Russian #hacking. @realDonaldTrump is not telling the truth.
Full statement.
posted by bluecore at 9:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [51 favorites]
Full statement.
posted by bluecore at 9:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [51 favorites]
Carson himself argued that success at HUD is within his grasp because he has the power of the human brain.
“Billions of neurons, hundreds of billions of interconnections, can process more than 2 million bits of information in one second,” he told the committee. “Any brain can do that. . . . If you learn one new fact every second, it would take you more than 3 million years to challenge the capacity of your brain.”
And that children, is why the Cabinet is made up of brains in jars.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:40 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
“Billions of neurons, hundreds of billions of interconnections, can process more than 2 million bits of information in one second,” he told the committee. “Any brain can do that. . . . If you learn one new fact every second, it would take you more than 3 million years to challenge the capacity of your brain.”
And that children, is why the Cabinet is made up of brains in jars.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:40 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump won literally saying he has "a very good brain". Can't fault Carson for saying the same thing. Facts don't matter in Trumps America, or qualifications, plans, understanding, coherence, comprehension, none of it. Superlatives win, bigly. All you have to do is promise the best Housing ever imagined and Rust Belt voters are sold sight unseen.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:46 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:46 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
If "Any brain can do that.." then why do we need Ben Carson?
Because, like a scarecrow, Ben Carson is outstanding in his field.
posted by peeedro at 9:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Because, like a scarecrow, Ben Carson is outstanding in his field.
posted by peeedro at 9:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
So I just had an idea for saving healthcare that's so stupid it's brilliant. Find every Republican Congressman & get them to say the words "we must repeal the American Care Act as soon as possible" on camera. Take the videos & post them to Twitter & Facebook. Then just sit back & watch as the hordes of people who voted them in rise up as one & tear them limb from limb. They all love the ACA because of how it pays for their doctor bills & keeps them healthy. It's Obamacare they hate, what with its failed socialism & high prices.
posted by scalefree at 9:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 9:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Longform NY mag article
The Young Trump - Jared Kushner is more like his father-in-law than anyone imagines.
If anyone wants to know why Christie, unlike so many trump loyalists, was well scrod, this is good reading.
posted by lalochezia at 9:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Young Trump - Jared Kushner is more like his father-in-law than anyone imagines.
If anyone wants to know why Christie, unlike so many trump loyalists, was well scrod, this is good reading.
posted by lalochezia at 9:49 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Neurons: 85 billion (ok)
Synapses: 0.15 quadrillion synapses (150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)
0.15 quadrillion is 150 trillion or 150,000,000,000,000. This makes sense, about 1,800 synapses per nerve, although that would not be connecting to 1,800 different nerves.
What bothers me is that Carson's numbers (not those above, those below) are coming from a brain surgeon. I would think he would know the brain.
Carson: If you learn one new fact every second, it would take you more than 3 million years to challenge the capacity of your brain. can process more than 2 million bits of information in one second
In 3 million years, there are 100 trillion seconds. A "fact" is not equal to a single digit of data but a whole concept. How he can confuse a synapse with a fact storage is so far off it's scary. And suggesting that the sum of neurons are involved in fact storage is ridiculous. I don't know what the number is, but I'd guess 10% of neurons. As mentioned the 2 million bits of information per second is gobbledy-gook.
He's a neurosurgeon that doesn't know the brain.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Synapses: 0.15 quadrillion synapses (150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)
0.15 quadrillion is 150 trillion or 150,000,000,000,000. This makes sense, about 1,800 synapses per nerve, although that would not be connecting to 1,800 different nerves.
What bothers me is that Carson's numbers (not those above, those below) are coming from a brain surgeon. I would think he would know the brain.
Carson: If you learn one new fact every second, it would take you more than 3 million years to challenge the capacity of your brain. can process more than 2 million bits of information in one second
In 3 million years, there are 100 trillion seconds. A "fact" is not equal to a single digit of data but a whole concept. How he can confuse a synapse with a fact storage is so far off it's scary. And suggesting that the sum of neurons are involved in fact storage is ridiculous. I don't know what the number is, but I'd guess 10% of neurons. As mentioned the 2 million bits of information per second is gobbledy-gook.
He's a neurosurgeon that doesn't know the brain.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well,, to be fair, he knows how to cut out bits of the brain.
Maybe that's about it? Neurosurgeon in no way implies knowledge of anything else other than cutting up brains.
posted by porpoise at 10:36 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe that's about it? Neurosurgeon in no way implies knowledge of anything else other than cutting up brains.
posted by porpoise at 10:36 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
http://www.giulianisecurity.com/index.php/us/
My favorite part of this website is the alphabetical scrolling list of every country on earth. Just in case you forgot.
posted by dis_integration at 10:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
My favorite part of this website is the alphabetical scrolling list of every country on earth. Just in case you forgot.
posted by dis_integration at 10:37 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's a neurosurgeon that doesn't know the brain.
IOKIYAR. Anyone recall David Hager, a Bush 43 appointee to the Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs in the FDA? Shortly after his appointment, he was divorced by his wife of 32 years, Linda Carruth. Carruth was narcoleptic and Hager had repeatedly sodomized her while she was unconscious. In his defense, he said that he, er, missed.
Yes, an OB-GYN who made decisions affecting the reproductive health of millions of American women declared himself unable to locate his wife's vagina.
Carson looks pretty on top of things by comparison.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
IOKIYAR. Anyone recall David Hager, a Bush 43 appointee to the Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs in the FDA? Shortly after his appointment, he was divorced by his wife of 32 years, Linda Carruth. Carruth was narcoleptic and Hager had repeatedly sodomized her while she was unconscious. In his defense, he said that he, er, missed.
Yes, an OB-GYN who made decisions affecting the reproductive health of millions of American women declared himself unable to locate his wife's vagina.
Carson looks pretty on top of things by comparison.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Times of Trump's Meryl tweets:
6:27am
6:36am (9 minutes later)
6:43am (7 minutes later)
Dude, what are you even doing?
It takes him a while to translate Russian.
posted by adept256 at 10:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
6:27am
6:36am (9 minutes later)
6:43am (7 minutes later)
Dude, what are you even doing?
It takes him a while to translate Russian.
posted by adept256 at 10:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
A "fact" is not equal to a single digit of data but a whole concept. How he can confuse a synapse with a fact storage is so far off it's scary.
He's a Republican. We can't expect him to even actually believe that facts exist, so we certainly can't expect him to know what they are.
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:44 PM on January 12, 2017
He's a Republican. We can't expect him to even actually believe that facts exist, so we certainly can't expect him to know what they are.
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:44 PM on January 12, 2017
My favorite part of this website is the alphabetical scrolling list of every country on earth. Just in case you forgot.
Ooh great, it's back up.
posted by figurant at 10:44 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ooh great, it's back up.
posted by figurant at 10:44 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think it is.
posted by christopherious at 10:58 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by christopherious at 10:58 PM on January 12, 2017
I think it's been taken down to avoid the hacking that was doubtlessly to come.
posted by jaduncan at 10:59 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by jaduncan at 10:59 PM on January 12, 2017
Please some red-blooded American patriot put the list in proper United States Canada Mexico Panama Haiti Jamaica Peru order.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Republicans say their midnight vote was about bridge building. Actually, it was bridge burning
Before I say whattheeverlovingfuckyoudisingenuousbastards... This article has the best McConnell picture as turtle Jesus ever. Now on to the festering anal polyp that is the repub party.
GOP Sen. Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.) has defended the Republican strategy as an exercise in bridge building. He told the New York Times: “The Obamacare bridge is collapsing, and we’re sending in a rescue team. . . . Then we’ll build new bridges to better health care, and finally, when these new bridges are finished, we’ll close the old bridge.” Actually, they’re burning the bridges behind them so that they have no choice but to fight. The recently deceased game theorist Thomas Schelling describes the strategy of bridge burning as follows, in his classic book “Arms and Influence”:
Often, we must maneuver into a position where we no longer have much choice left. This is the old business of burning bridges. If you are faced with an enemy who thinks you would turn and run if he kept advancing, and if the bridge is there to run across, he may keep advancing. . . . But if you burn the bridge so that you cannot retreat, and in sheer desperation there is nothing you can do but defend yourself, he has a new calculation to make.
posted by futz at 11:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Before I say whattheeverlovingfuckyoudisingenuousbastards... This article has the best McConnell picture as turtle Jesus ever. Now on to the festering anal polyp that is the repub party.
GOP Sen. Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.) has defended the Republican strategy as an exercise in bridge building. He told the New York Times: “The Obamacare bridge is collapsing, and we’re sending in a rescue team. . . . Then we’ll build new bridges to better health care, and finally, when these new bridges are finished, we’ll close the old bridge.” Actually, they’re burning the bridges behind them so that they have no choice but to fight. The recently deceased game theorist Thomas Schelling describes the strategy of bridge burning as follows, in his classic book “Arms and Influence”:
Often, we must maneuver into a position where we no longer have much choice left. This is the old business of burning bridges. If you are faced with an enemy who thinks you would turn and run if he kept advancing, and if the bridge is there to run across, he may keep advancing. . . . But if you burn the bridge so that you cannot retreat, and in sheer desperation there is nothing you can do but defend yourself, he has a new calculation to make.
posted by futz at 11:03 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
My favorite part of this website is the alphabetical scrolling list of every country on earth. Just in case you forgot.
I quite like the way it manages to truncate the name of only one country, giving us the 'United States of Americ'. Patrio-tastic!
posted by Pink Frost at 11:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I quite like the way it manages to truncate the name of only one country, giving us the 'United States of Americ'. Patrio-tastic!
posted by Pink Frost at 11:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
futz: And that's exactly right. They're going full repeal-and-delay on the calculation that Democrats will fold after the repeal is baked in and allow Republicans to repeal those parts of the law that can't be done with reconciliation. It's a game of chicken and they believe, with some reason based on the past, that Democrats will blink.
But if Democrats do blink they'll have shown they can be blackmailed to do, essentially, anything. People are going to die if this goes through. More will probably die in the short term if the Democrats hold fast than if they caved and showed their belly since a return to the status quo ante would allow at least some semblence of an individual market to re-form. But in the long run it would be a disaster, and Democrats need to hold firm. Even when bodies start piling up. And that's literal.
posted by Justinian at 11:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
But if Democrats do blink they'll have shown they can be blackmailed to do, essentially, anything. People are going to die if this goes through. More will probably die in the short term if the Democrats hold fast than if they caved and showed their belly since a return to the status quo ante would allow at least some semblence of an individual market to re-form. But in the long run it would be a disaster, and Democrats need to hold firm. Even when bodies start piling up. And that's literal.
posted by Justinian at 11:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Or the Democrats just need to say that it's on the Republicans to delay the repeal date. Let's attach the blame where it's deserved.
posted by jaduncan at 11:23 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by jaduncan at 11:23 PM on January 12, 2017
I'm not sure what you mean? The Republicans can set whatever repeal date they choose for the parts that don't go through reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 11:36 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 11:36 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I quite like the way it manages to truncate the name of only one country, giving us the 'United States of Americ'. Patrio-tastic!
I had no idea what you were talking about, until I looked at it in a non-Safari browser on my Mac. Turns out the scrolling list of countries only shows up in the Flash version, and Safari/Apple in general hates Flash with the heat of a million suns, so Safari loaded an image alternate. (Hey, bad as this website is, at least they had a fallback in case Flash wasn't available!)
Christ, hide your grift better than this. Such a shitty-ass, amateur-hour website, with a copyright date of 2014, and a million open ports (per the many nmap screenshots we've seen thus far), and you call yourself a security company? This is seriously third-rate, mediocre, lame-ass, slapdash bullshit. At least if you're going to provide mediocre service, charge by the hour for it, and run up the clock on the taxpayer's dime, follow the lead of the experts at this shit, who litter the office parks of Northern Virginia. At least those fucking assholes know how to put together a professional-looking website.
If I, as a taxpayer, am going to go back to the dark days of the early aughts of being raped by the government contractor and Wall Street buddies of the administration, at the very least make your website look good. I fancy myself a bit of an aesthete; at least kiss me before the clumsy, ham-handed date rape.
posted by CommonSense at 11:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I had no idea what you were talking about, until I looked at it in a non-Safari browser on my Mac. Turns out the scrolling list of countries only shows up in the Flash version, and Safari/Apple in general hates Flash with the heat of a million suns, so Safari loaded an image alternate. (Hey, bad as this website is, at least they had a fallback in case Flash wasn't available!)
Christ, hide your grift better than this. Such a shitty-ass, amateur-hour website, with a copyright date of 2014, and a million open ports (per the many nmap screenshots we've seen thus far), and you call yourself a security company? This is seriously third-rate, mediocre, lame-ass, slapdash bullshit. At least if you're going to provide mediocre service, charge by the hour for it, and run up the clock on the taxpayer's dime, follow the lead of the experts at this shit, who litter the office parks of Northern Virginia. At least those fucking assholes know how to put together a professional-looking website.
If I, as a taxpayer, am going to go back to the dark days of the early aughts of being raped by the government contractor and Wall Street buddies of the administration, at the very least make your website look good. I fancy myself a bit of an aesthete; at least kiss me before the clumsy, ham-handed date rape.
posted by CommonSense at 11:59 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Donald Trump to America: I Won, Accountability Is Over
Donald Trump’s first press conference since the summer was a surreal exercise in the assertion of immunity from accountability. He either ignored questions about his behavior, or dismissed the questions as illegitimate. He painted a chilling depiction of politics not as an ongoing process but as a one-time event, settled in his favor by the presidential campaign, once and for all.
posted by thelonius at 12:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Donald Trump’s first press conference since the summer was a surreal exercise in the assertion of immunity from accountability. He either ignored questions about his behavior, or dismissed the questions as illegitimate. He painted a chilling depiction of politics not as an ongoing process but as a one-time event, settled in his favor by the presidential campaign, once and for all.
posted by thelonius at 12:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm not sure what you mean? The Republicans can set whatever repeal date they choose for the parts that don't go through reconciliation.
The bridges aren't actually burnt; it's absolutely on the Republicans to choose whether to extend the repeal date if it gets close and they don't have the votes for their healthcare replacement.
The bodies don't have to stack up.
posted by jaduncan at 12:48 AM on January 13, 2017
The bridges aren't actually burnt; it's absolutely on the Republicans to choose whether to extend the repeal date if it gets close and they don't have the votes for their healthcare replacement.
The bodies don't have to stack up.
posted by jaduncan at 12:48 AM on January 13, 2017
My daughter turns 2 next Friday, the same day this piece of shit is inaugurated. For obvious reasons, I want her to stay 23 months old forever.
That said, the other thing that's killing me is that I don't honestly know if she'll know what it's like to live through an America where the adults are in control, one where "Idiocracy" was a farcical comedy and not a documentary. Yes, she was born during the Obama era, and her parents (hi, there!) were married only four days after Obama won the presidency in 2008. Her first two years of life were Obama years. But she won't remember any of that.
None of this matters, I suppose, if this stupid goddamn child (and now, I mean Trump, not my beautiful daughter) blows us all up.
posted by CommonSense at 12:55 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
That said, the other thing that's killing me is that I don't honestly know if she'll know what it's like to live through an America where the adults are in control, one where "Idiocracy" was a farcical comedy and not a documentary. Yes, she was born during the Obama era, and her parents (hi, there!) were married only four days after Obama won the presidency in 2008. Her first two years of life were Obama years. But she won't remember any of that.
None of this matters, I suppose, if this stupid goddamn child (and now, I mean Trump, not my beautiful daughter) blows us all up.
posted by CommonSense at 12:55 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think it's been taken down to avoid the hacking that was doubtlessly to come
It is (was) a Joomla 3.0 website. Interestingly, tens of thousands of Joomla 3.4-3.6 sites were hacked late October-early November by (apparently) Eastern European attackers. Basically, attackers can declare themselves administrators and do whatever they want with the site. I did some cleanup on a compromised site and the user list was full of new admins with Russian emails (not that it means anything). For those interested (Hi Rudy!) there's a new security release available just now. Now, because the Giuliani site was using an older version, it was not vulnerable to this hack, just to all Joomla hacks disclosed in the past 3 years between 3.0 and 3.4.
posted by elgilito at 12:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It is (was) a Joomla 3.0 website. Interestingly, tens of thousands of Joomla 3.4-3.6 sites were hacked late October-early November by (apparently) Eastern European attackers. Basically, attackers can declare themselves administrators and do whatever they want with the site. I did some cleanup on a compromised site and the user list was full of new admins with Russian emails (not that it means anything). For those interested (Hi Rudy!) there's a new security release available just now. Now, because the Giuliani site was using an older version, it was not vulnerable to this hack, just to all Joomla hacks disclosed in the past 3 years between 3.0 and 3.4.
posted by elgilito at 12:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't help him. Let it be hacked (assuming there's any good hackers left in America; they all seem to be in China and Russia nowadays), and let them be embarrassed. Not that it'll matter; evidently, nothing shames these fuckers anymore.
posted by CommonSense at 12:59 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by CommonSense at 12:59 AM on January 13, 2017
The Idiocracy comparison is still unfair to President Camacho, who at least seemed to understand that he might not be competent at everything and require outside experts.
posted by Archelaus at 1:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 1:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
And yet not one other reporter demanded that he answer CNN's question or walked out in protest.
This is what Jay Smooth underlines, too; so far only Fox seems to have spoken out in solidarity.
Is it too late for reporters to band together, for this kind of change in their ground game?
As regards publishing "presidential news" in this new era, though we know news orgs are beholden to ads/clicks, isn't there a way they could reframe all news about this administration by putting reporting on actual policy/legislative moves front and center, while still being timely with updates on the presidential antics, but just relegating them to page 5, or so? Admittedly, the concept of "page 5" is kind of moot in the online, 24/7 news-hose age, but surely there's a lot that could be reframed in the sense of just layout and "weight", to demote the upcoming bullshit to a bullshit column?
posted by progosk at 1:07 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is what Jay Smooth underlines, too; so far only Fox seems to have spoken out in solidarity.
Is it too late for reporters to band together, for this kind of change in their ground game?
As regards publishing "presidential news" in this new era, though we know news orgs are beholden to ads/clicks, isn't there a way they could reframe all news about this administration by putting reporting on actual policy/legislative moves front and center, while still being timely with updates on the presidential antics, but just relegating them to page 5, or so? Admittedly, the concept of "page 5" is kind of moot in the online, 24/7 news-hose age, but surely there's a lot that could be reframed in the sense of just layout and "weight", to demote the upcoming bullshit to a bullshit column?
posted by progosk at 1:07 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The bodies don't have to stack up.
Of course they don't have to. But the Republicans want them to. They just want them to be the right people dying from lack of healthcare. Democrats shouldn't help them target.
posted by Justinian at 1:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Of course they don't have to. But the Republicans want them to. They just want them to be the right people dying from lack of healthcare. Democrats shouldn't help them target.
posted by Justinian at 1:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
From up-thread:
BREAKING: Obama admin permits NSA to give raw (unminimized to protect privacy)12333 surveillance to FBI/CIA/DEA/etc
This is terrible. It's hard to overstate how bad even. Instead of curtailing the surveillance state before Trump takes over, Obama just expanded it to allow every racist or power hungry local police department unfiltered access to raw NSA signals data.
posted by T.D. Strange
This doesn't make sense to me. Who's surveillance would they be... hmmm....
Are the sharks circling?
posted by TrishaU at 2:31 AM on January 13, 2017
BREAKING: Obama admin permits NSA to give raw (unminimized to protect privacy)12333 surveillance to FBI/CIA/DEA/etc
This is terrible. It's hard to overstate how bad even. Instead of curtailing the surveillance state before Trump takes over, Obama just expanded it to allow every racist or power hungry local police department unfiltered access to raw NSA signals data.
posted by T.D. Strange
This doesn't make sense to me. Who's surveillance would they be... hmmm....
Are the sharks circling?
posted by TrishaU at 2:31 AM on January 13, 2017
This doesn't make sense to me. Who's surveillance would they be... hmmm....
Are the sharks circling?
You're gonna need a bigger non sequiter
posted by thelonius at 2:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are the sharks circling?
You're gonna need a bigger non sequiter
posted by thelonius at 2:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
This doesn't make sense to me. Who's surveillance would they be... hmmm....
Are the sharks circling?
You're gonna need a bigger non sequiter
posted by thelonius at 2:38 AM on January 13 [+] [!]
The oranges are definitely ripening.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:50 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are the sharks circling?
You're gonna need a bigger non sequiter
posted by thelonius at 2:38 AM on January 13 [+] [!]
The oranges are definitely ripening.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:50 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
i wonder - sometimes american politics seems like a good cop/bad cop routine ...
posted by pyramid termite at 2:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
So not only is the delivering-Trump-the-election action by Comey about to serve as a pretext to remake the FBI, but the newly minted secret police will have unlimited direct access to dragnet domestic surveillance. As well as the reorganized CIA. If there's any method to the madness it seems like the idea is to bet everything on Chekism.
posted by XMLicious at 2:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 2:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump's cabinet is like a po-mo republican hacks greatest hits let's get the band back together! Which is bad enough/ stupid enough since most of these characters are at the ends of their runs. (Hopefully.) They are all hard-baked into their various ideologies though and I don't believe any of them (with the exception of Dr.Carson, perhaps) are known for their thoughtfulness or flexibility. And there's no way in hell they'll agree with any or all or even most of PEOTUS' ideas/wants/needs which means conflict. Lots of conflict. And if we can agree on anything about Trump it's that he lives and breaths conflict. It would probably not be too far-fetched to imagine that on his desk he has a little plaque that says: "The buck stops, here pulls a knife and goes for your jugular! Motherfucker!"
There is the slightest possibility that his entire 'administration' will be a series of fights and squabbles with these other dinosaurs... yes, I'm trying to cheer myself up...
The real stumper is how Trump will resolve the "Do I side with Putin, or the US?" when such a conflict (as it must, inevitably) arise? At that moment, this whole shit-show dissolves into tragedy (the classical kind.)
posted by From Bklyn at 2:59 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is the slightest possibility that his entire 'administration' will be a series of fights and squabbles with these other dinosaurs... yes, I'm trying to cheer myself up...
The real stumper is how Trump will resolve the "Do I side with Putin, or the US?" when such a conflict (as it must, inevitably) arise? At that moment, this whole shit-show dissolves into tragedy (the classical kind.)
posted by From Bklyn at 2:59 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
More "Coincidence".
Marine Le Pen - French National Front Party Leader and Guido “George” Lombardi, Italian businessman who is a neighbor of Trump in Trump Tower and his self-professed contact to Europe’s far-right parties, having coffee together at Trump Tower yesterday. (Le Monde - french)
posted by adamvasco at 3:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Marine Le Pen - French National Front Party Leader and Guido “George” Lombardi, Italian businessman who is a neighbor of Trump in Trump Tower and his self-professed contact to Europe’s far-right parties, having coffee together at Trump Tower yesterday. (Le Monde - french)
posted by adamvasco at 3:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
This week, I've been mostly listening to Book Of The Week on Radio 4, which has been Prof Diarmaid MacCulloch's (whom God preserve) reading from his excellent new Reformation. Which is of course a history of the Protestant Reformation, now 500 years old.
He finished off with a timely reminder about Evangelical Christianity. For many, the End Times are very real and devoutly to be wished - and that, obviously, this makes stuff like climate change and enviromentalism not only pointless but mildly heretical.
Hate to say it, but looking at everything that's going on at the moment I'm brushing off my "Don't immanentize the eschaton!" T-shirt. If the filter fits...
posted by Devonian at 3:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
He finished off with a timely reminder about Evangelical Christianity. For many, the End Times are very real and devoutly to be wished - and that, obviously, this makes stuff like climate change and enviromentalism not only pointless but mildly heretical.
Hate to say it, but looking at everything that's going on at the moment I'm brushing off my "Don't immanentize the eschaton!" T-shirt. If the filter fits...
posted by Devonian at 3:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Public hearings NOW!
Not guilty? No fear.
Occupy Washington!
posted by getting_back_on_track at 4:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not guilty? No fear.
Occupy Washington!
posted by getting_back_on_track at 4:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump HAS ALREADY SIDED WITH PUTIN. This isn't a conflict he'll have to resolve when it inevitably arises. HE SIDES WITH PUTIN, AGAINST THE US. It is the one thing he has been clear about from start to finish.
posted by tel3path at 4:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 4:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
He's sided with Putin and with the far-right in Europe, and against the EU and NATO. This is a done deal. Marie Le Pen wasn't in Trump Tower yesterday to pick up some shopping - actually, she probably was, speculation is that she's looking for $10m backing for the FN in the French election.
Which is why I don't give Mad Dog good odds of surviving long in post. at least if Trump doesn't go first. He knows where the risks are, and he's going to keep saying so, and there's no way on God's earth that Trump will suffer that.
posted by Devonian at 4:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Which is why I don't give Mad Dog good odds of surviving long in post. at least if Trump doesn't go first. He knows where the risks are, and he's going to keep saying so, and there's no way on God's earth that Trump will suffer that.
posted by Devonian at 4:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Should specify - 'When Trump picks Putin over the US in a way that even the blindest of his followers cannot deny...'
though god knows what more he needs to do to prove that, but it really seems like this simply fact is not getting through to the public at large.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:37 AM on January 13, 2017
though god knows what more he needs to do to prove that, but it really seems like this simply fact is not getting through to the public at large.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:37 AM on January 13, 2017
Or maybe his followers just don't care.
I do wonder if they realize what they're getting into. Even in this thread we had people saying stuff like surveillance video is illegal, etc., when it's not illegal in Russia (afaik). A lot of people don't understand that US legal rights don't apply outside the US (popular culture has also led non-US citizens to think they have rights to stuff, like freedom of speech, self defense etc. which are in fact much more curtailed in their home nations). Unless something changes, US citizens will de jure no longer have the rights they take for granted, and not even in a "OMG Republicans being Republican" kind of way, in a "straight up unequivocal dictatorship" kind of way. He's already attacking freedom of the press and directly imitating Putin in the way he conducts press conferences.
Furthermore, even if Trump actually does follow through on his promises to bring manufacturing back within US borders - which is the one other thing I actually think he might believe in and even be well-intentioned about, strange as it is to see and say - he's such an inept businessman that even if he made a sincere and sustained effort (he won't, he doesn't have the conviction or the attention span) it's likely to come out worse than before. As pointed out, Russia is a petrostate which doesn't produce anything. I could see the US becoming not even a petrostate which doesn't produce anything and can't import things affordably either.
posted by tel3path at 5:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I do wonder if they realize what they're getting into. Even in this thread we had people saying stuff like surveillance video is illegal, etc., when it's not illegal in Russia (afaik). A lot of people don't understand that US legal rights don't apply outside the US (popular culture has also led non-US citizens to think they have rights to stuff, like freedom of speech, self defense etc. which are in fact much more curtailed in their home nations). Unless something changes, US citizens will de jure no longer have the rights they take for granted, and not even in a "OMG Republicans being Republican" kind of way, in a "straight up unequivocal dictatorship" kind of way. He's already attacking freedom of the press and directly imitating Putin in the way he conducts press conferences.
Furthermore, even if Trump actually does follow through on his promises to bring manufacturing back within US borders - which is the one other thing I actually think he might believe in and even be well-intentioned about, strange as it is to see and say - he's such an inept businessman that even if he made a sincere and sustained effort (he won't, he doesn't have the conviction or the attention span) it's likely to come out worse than before. As pointed out, Russia is a petrostate which doesn't produce anything. I could see the US becoming not even a petrostate which doesn't produce anything and can't import things affordably either.
posted by tel3path at 5:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Failing To Confront Trump’s Bigotry Is a Moral Stain on Simon Wiesenthal Center — and American Jews
posted by zombieflanders at 5:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 5:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
So not only is the delivering-Trump-the-election action by Comey about to serve as a pretext to remake the FBI, but the newly minted secret police will have unlimited direct access to dragnet domestic surveillance. As well as the reorganized CIA. If there's any method to the madness it seems like the idea is to bet everything on Chekism.
Remember when this was funny?
posted by entropicamericana at 5:15 AM on January 13, 2017
Remember when this was funny?
posted by entropicamericana at 5:15 AM on January 13, 2017
@NishaChittal:
"Hillary Clinton losing was not a failure of feminism. It was the success of racism and misogyny." -@rgay at @92Y
posted by chris24 at 5:21 AM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
"Hillary Clinton losing was not a failure of feminism. It was the success of racism and misogyny." -@rgay at @92Y
posted by chris24 at 5:21 AM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
From the always-insightful Weekly Sift:
Populism differs from democracy in a few important ways:posted by OnceUponATime at 5:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
In populism, “the People” isn’t everybody.
While democracy is “government of the People, by the People, and for the People”, populism can get so focused on the for that it stops caring about the of and by.
Because democracy is of and by the People, democratic government is defined by process. But populist movements want results.
@NewYorker: An early look at next week's cover, "At the Wheel," by Barry Blitt.
posted by Wordshore at 5:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 5:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
The PaddyPower odds for various Trump things.
posted by Wordshore at 5:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 5:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
What are Hillary Clinton's people complaining about with respect to the F.B.I. Based on the information they had she should never have been allowed to run - guilty as hell. They were VERY nice to her. She lost because she campaigned in the wrong states - no enthusiasm!
It's been quite some time since we've seen the "she's so guilty she should never have been allowed to run" argument. Regression?
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
What are Hillary Clinton's people complaining about with respect to the F.B.I. Based on the information they had she should never have been allowed to run - guilty as hell. They were VERY nice to her. She lost because she campaigned in the wrong states - no enthusiasm!
It's been quite some time since we've seen the "she's so guilty she should never have been allowed to run" argument. Regression?
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
He's a neurosurgeon that doesn't know the brain.
he means AFTER he performs surgery.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
he means AFTER he performs surgery.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
seriously third-rate, mediocre, lame-ass, slapdash bullshit
just like rudy himself.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:52 AM on January 13, 2017
just like rudy himself.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:52 AM on January 13, 2017
Metafilter: You're gonna need a bigger non sequiter
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Christopher Steele, who Trump calls a "failed spy" (what does that even mean?) was the MI6 case officer for Alexander Litvinenko.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
was the MI6 case officer for Alexander Litvinenko.
Wow. That's motive enough for Agent Steele, isn't it? Brave dude.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:08 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wow. That's motive enough for Agent Steele, isn't it? Brave dude.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:08 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's not the one who broke the report to the news though. It was circulated and considered trivial by politicians ans journalists alike. He was hired to make a report and so he did.
I would guess it's circulating now in order to make a case for convicting Trump of something, since supporting Putin in and of itself doesn't seem to break any rules/laws? I don't know. I guess someone has to find evidentiary proof of something they're unlikely to find? I would guess that Trump flaunting his position over a period of months is what provoked the focus on something which is a MacGuffin according to due process? I am struggling to understand this.
posted by tel3path at 6:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would guess it's circulating now in order to make a case for convicting Trump of something, since supporting Putin in and of itself doesn't seem to break any rules/laws? I don't know. I guess someone has to find evidentiary proof of something they're unlikely to find? I would guess that Trump flaunting his position over a period of months is what provoked the focus on something which is a MacGuffin according to due process? I am struggling to understand this.
posted by tel3path at 6:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
in other words the report may not mean much, the fact that Trump flaunts his allegiances does, so they bring the report out as if it were a "smoking gun" in order to convince people that action must be taken.
I don't know what action could be taken though other than impeachment, according to the BBC that's all that's left and it's unlikely the Rs will do that.
posted by tel3path at 6:18 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know what action could be taken though other than impeachment, according to the BBC that's all that's left and it's unlikely the Rs will do that.
posted by tel3path at 6:18 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials
I'm curious how the U.S. government official knows this.
posted by diogenes at 6:22 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm curious how the U.S. government official knows this.
posted by diogenes at 6:22 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know it's an old trope, but imagine what would happen if two years ago one-tenth sort of thing started to circulate about Obama or Clinton. The GOP would detonate in thermonuclear outrage like Tsar Bomba - all business would halt while investigations were convened and mobs mobilised to surround the White House with pitchforks and torches. It's impossible to fully conceive how much righteous ire would be unleashed - it'd probably melt the ice mountains of Pluto.
I would like to see this pointed out more widely.
posted by Devonian at 6:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
I would like to see this pointed out more widely.
posted by Devonian at 6:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
i think if a kompromat video surfaced ( check out sex tape!! ), that might be enough to prove the rest of the contents of the dossier more than allegation.
if that wasn't enough for impeachment, it would probably make trump even more unhinged and act even more insane.
but who am i kidding, the r's will line up behind consensual pee sex and continue to support treason, and we'll have trumps and kushners in the white house from now until something extremely destablizing happens.
posted by localhuman at 6:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
if that wasn't enough for impeachment, it would probably make trump even more unhinged and act even more insane.
but who am i kidding, the r's will line up behind consensual pee sex and continue to support treason, and we'll have trumps and kushners in the white house from now until something extremely destablizing happens.
posted by localhuman at 6:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now, Republicans or not.
It's not about the dossier. It's about the obvious and looming threat to our national sovereignty. That Donnie is a Putin sympathizer/sycophant is something that he has himself proudly declared, his only personal contributions to the platform are those that benefit Russia and hobble NATO, and he's appointed the biggest oil czar to SoS.
The pee is irrelevant. The why is irrelevant. Trump is giving away the farm and no one is stopping him.
posted by lydhre at 6:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
It's not about the dossier. It's about the obvious and looming threat to our national sovereignty. That Donnie is a Putin sympathizer/sycophant is something that he has himself proudly declared, his only personal contributions to the platform are those that benefit Russia and hobble NATO, and he's appointed the biggest oil czar to SoS.
The pee is irrelevant. The why is irrelevant. Trump is giving away the farm and no one is stopping him.
posted by lydhre at 6:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
It was circulated and considered trivial by politicians ans journalists alike.
Trivial?
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:26 AM on January 13, 2017
Trivial?
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:26 AM on January 13, 2017
Obama's response was reportedly "what does this have to do with anything?"
posted by tel3path at 6:32 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by tel3path at 6:32 AM on January 13, 2017
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now, Republicans or not.
Republicans aren't freaking out because they are so craven that becoming an authoritarian client state of Russia is something they are willing to live with.
I suspect that large portions of the Intelligence community are freaking out, but much of that is invisible to us.
I don't understand why Democratic leadership isn't freaking out more loudly and visibly.
posted by diogenes at 6:32 AM on January 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
Republicans aren't freaking out because they are so craven that becoming an authoritarian client state of Russia is something they are willing to live with.
I suspect that large portions of the Intelligence community are freaking out, but much of that is invisible to us.
I don't understand why Democratic leadership isn't freaking out more loudly and visibly.
posted by diogenes at 6:32 AM on January 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now, Republicans or not.
a - they've got something up their sleeves they think will solve this problem
b - they don't see this as a problem at all, it's how it's been for years, and they no longer care enough about it to keep it hidden
posted by pyramid termite at 6:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
a - they've got something up their sleeves they think will solve this problem
b - they don't see this as a problem at all, it's how it's been for years, and they no longer care enough about it to keep it hidden
posted by pyramid termite at 6:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
consensual pee sex
I think that we should all keep in mind that hookers acquired for the purpose of blackmailing a potential foreign asset are unlikely to be all that consensual.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
I think that we should all keep in mind that hookers acquired for the purpose of blackmailing a potential foreign asset are unlikely to be all that consensual.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
Obama's response was reportedly "what does this have to do with anything?"
Where was that reported? (I believe you. I just can't find it.)
posted by diogenes at 6:34 AM on January 13, 2017
Where was that reported? (I believe you. I just can't find it.)
posted by diogenes at 6:34 AM on January 13, 2017
can't remember but probably linked out from here.
Also, the intelligence services are probably not being transparent about what, if anything, they're doing about this. That's sort of the idea.
posted by tel3path at 6:37 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, the intelligence services are probably not being transparent about what, if anything, they're doing about this. That's sort of the idea.
posted by tel3path at 6:37 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I really don't understand why Obama would say that. I could see him asking why they were showing him raw intelligence, but I don't see how he could ask what it has to do with anything.
posted by diogenes at 6:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by diogenes at 6:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
If the FSB turns up at your door in Moscow and say "We'd like you to do this", the entire concept of consent is moot.
posted by Devonian at 6:39 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 6:39 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would guess it's circulating now in order to make a case for convicting Trump of something, since supporting Putin in and of itself doesn't seem to break any rules/laws?
I thought the dossier came out as follows:
-commissioned (by Jeb! it seems) for oppo research, not for any criminal justice purpose (so, no need to be 100% accurate and confirmed)
-started circling around the hill and the media, but no one could confirm the details sufficiently to report on it
-McCain gives it to FBI
-US intelligence confirms enough about it to brief POTUS and PEOTUS on its existence
-CNN gets sources to confirm this briefing (but not the underlying dossier's contents); reports on the briefing
-Buzzfeed decides to publish the thing we're all talking about but not talking about; and specifies that the contents of the dossier are unsubstantiated
It's been circulating for a while behind the scenes and is circulating publicly now because it was included in the President's intelligence briefing. Whether the IC delayed investigating it until Trump won or until Obama gave them the "full investigation" order or whether it just took them time to confirm things after McCain handed it over, we don't yet know. But the briefing is what sparked the publication of the dossier (which, remember, was not produced by a criminal justice agency or state intelligence bureau or otherwise for the purpose of criminal prosecution and should not be analyzed as though it were).
posted by melissasaurus at 6:41 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I thought the dossier came out as follows:
-commissioned (by Jeb! it seems) for oppo research, not for any criminal justice purpose (so, no need to be 100% accurate and confirmed)
-started circling around the hill and the media, but no one could confirm the details sufficiently to report on it
-McCain gives it to FBI
-US intelligence confirms enough about it to brief POTUS and PEOTUS on its existence
-CNN gets sources to confirm this briefing (but not the underlying dossier's contents); reports on the briefing
-Buzzfeed decides to publish the thing we're all talking about but not talking about; and specifies that the contents of the dossier are unsubstantiated
It's been circulating for a while behind the scenes and is circulating publicly now because it was included in the President's intelligence briefing. Whether the IC delayed investigating it until Trump won or until Obama gave them the "full investigation" order or whether it just took them time to confirm things after McCain handed it over, we don't yet know. But the briefing is what sparked the publication of the dossier (which, remember, was not produced by a criminal justice agency or state intelligence bureau or otherwise for the purpose of criminal prosecution and should not be analyzed as though it were).
posted by melissasaurus at 6:41 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe that Obama quote got garbled along the way? It went from Obama, to Biden, to someone on Biden's staff, to the reporter.
posted by diogenes at 6:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
On 31 October 2016, Mother Jones published
A Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump... Has the bureau investigated this material?
Did the Mother Jones get linked here? I don't remember seeing it. Maybe because most of us were focused on FBI director Comey who was back to "EMAILS! EMAILS! EMAILS".
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
A Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump... Has the bureau investigated this material?
Did the Mother Jones get linked here? I don't remember seeing it. Maybe because most of us were focused on FBI director Comey who was back to "EMAILS! EMAILS! EMAILS".
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Number one the press often misreports things, number two this undoubtedly looks different to them than it does to the public.
Maybe the apparent nonreaction is because this kind of report is so routine that nobody bats an eyelid. Or maybe the journos didn't want to get dragged into a propaganda game. Or maybe it was significant enough that they knew better than to say anything (journos?)
If the standard of proof is the reason for not publishing, nobody has explained why the standard of proof was totally different for the DNC hacks.
posted by tel3path at 6:46 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe the apparent nonreaction is because this kind of report is so routine that nobody bats an eyelid. Or maybe the journos didn't want to get dragged into a propaganda game. Or maybe it was significant enough that they knew better than to say anything (journos?)
If the standard of proof is the reason for not publishing, nobody has explained why the standard of proof was totally different for the DNC hacks.
posted by tel3path at 6:46 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was just typing something like this out, glad I checked new comments! If the ACA goes away, and they try this ridiculous "let everyone sell insurance across state lines" non-solution, I do wonder if the sane states could make this happen. Get together and create a jointly-owned insurance company to get a big risk pool and provider network spread across several states and then grow that to other states, with its power to bargain with the medical and pharmaceutical industry growing as it grows. No idea if this is financially sound or what, but the basic idea is intriguing.
There will be a federal law ruling out any sort of cooperative or state owned health care provision before you can even blink.
posted by srboisvert at 6:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
There will be a federal law ruling out any sort of cooperative or state owned health care provision before you can even blink.
posted by srboisvert at 6:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Mother Jones article definitely came up and was discussed. At one point we had a separate thread going for the Russia stuff, and it was in there. I can't remember if it was also in the main election thread.
posted by diogenes at 6:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did the Mother Jones get linked here?
Yep.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yep.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
@RealDonaldTrump: It now turns out that the phony allegations against me were put together by my political opponents and a failed spy afraid of being sued.... [Real]
posted by carmicha at 6:48 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by carmicha at 6:48 AM on January 13, 2017
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now, Republicans or not.
a - they've got something up their sleeves they think will solve this problem
b - they don't see this as a problem at all, it's how it's been for years, and they no longer care enough about it to keep it hidden
Remember the scope of the hacking. DNC, RNC and who knows what else. We only know what was leaked and do not know what was not.
It's is possible the a large portion of the leadership structure of the United States is compromised. Hell all they would probably for republicans is their browser histories.
posted by srboisvert at 6:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
a - they've got something up their sleeves they think will solve this problem
b - they don't see this as a problem at all, it's how it's been for years, and they no longer care enough about it to keep it hidden
Remember the scope of the hacking. DNC, RNC and who knows what else. We only know what was leaked and do not know what was not.
It's is possible the a large portion of the leadership structure of the United States is compromised. Hell all they would probably for republicans is their browser histories.
posted by srboisvert at 6:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Failed? My respect of him as someone that ran the Russia desk and as a potential C is much more intense than my respect for Donald's place in real estate or casino management.
posted by jaduncan at 6:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 6:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I really don't understand why Obama would say that. I could see him asking why they were showing him raw intelligence, but I don't see how he could ask what it has to do with anything.
Because while the rest of us are loling and making pee jokes the President asks why what appears to be some British spy's bad Twilight fanfic is being presented as serious.
I really think this whole episode, while cathardic for a lot of liberals, has left a real bad taste in my mouth. Barely credible allegations being blown way out of proportion? Especially since less than 72 hours ago Obama himself delivered the words:
posted by Talez at 6:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because while the rest of us are loling and making pee jokes the President asks why what appears to be some British spy's bad Twilight fanfic is being presented as serious.
I really think this whole episode, while cathardic for a lot of liberals, has left a real bad taste in my mouth. Barely credible allegations being blown way out of proportion? Especially since less than 72 hours ago Obama himself delivered the words:
How do we excuse ethical lapses in our own party, but pounce when the other party does the same thing? It's not just dishonest, this selective sorting of the facts; it's self-defeating.It wasn't right from the very beginning and Obama smelled it coming a mile away.
posted by Talez at 6:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I live in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney initiated the program on which Obamacare is modeled. I've been active enough with contacting my MoCs about retaining the ACA but have been less active on that because I'm covered. Srboisvert's comment has forced me to become more active.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:53 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pxe2000 at 6:53 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not wrong to commission opposition intelligence. It's not like the guy hacked Donnie's email.
posted by tel3path at 6:55 AM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 6:55 AM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
How do we excuse ethical lapses in our own party, but pounce when the other party does the same thing? It's not just dishonest, this selective sorting of the facts; it's self-defeating.
These aren't ethical lapses. These are treasonous acts.
posted by localhuman at 6:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
These aren't ethical lapses. These are treasonous acts.
posted by localhuman at 6:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Barely credible allegations being blown way out of proportion?
That's Comey levels of irony right there.
posted by diogenes at 6:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's Comey levels of irony right there.
posted by diogenes at 6:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Some real irony at daycare drop-off today. My son attends a Catholic daycare that also runs an adult daycare and meals on wheels program. During the election the only political thing I saw there was a flyer taped in an official-seeming spot on the wall next to where the adult daycare attendees check in basically saying don't vote for Hillary or Democrtas because they kill babbies.
Today? Same spot allocated to a flyer of a "list of shame" of (Republican) Senators voting to gut Medicare and Social Security.
Guys, it's almost like these people don't actually have any real principles! And don't actually care that deeply about life! Who would have possibly thunk?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [36 favorites]
Today? Same spot allocated to a flyer of a "list of shame" of (Republican) Senators voting to gut Medicare and Social Security.
Guys, it's almost like these people don't actually have any real principles! And don't actually care that deeply about life! Who would have possibly thunk?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [36 favorites]
These aren't ethical lapses. These are treasonous acts.
No it's not. It's currently the liberal equivalent of Pizzagate. There's nothing real there as much as people want there to be. The only reason they even appear credible is because it seems plausible because, you know, it's Trump.
If more flesh to the allegations surface then sure, it becomes a legitimate target, but given the current situation it's really disgraceful how fast and hard we've hammered it and propagated the cycle with our own version of /r/forwardsfromgrandma.
posted by Talez at 7:00 AM on January 13, 2017
No it's not. It's currently the liberal equivalent of Pizzagate. There's nothing real there as much as people want there to be. The only reason they even appear credible is because it seems plausible because, you know, it's Trump.
If more flesh to the allegations surface then sure, it becomes a legitimate target, but given the current situation it's really disgraceful how fast and hard we've hammered it and propagated the cycle with our own version of /r/forwardsfromgrandma.
posted by Talez at 7:00 AM on January 13, 2017
Blimey O'Reilly
The allegation that Annoying Orange is Russocompromised is credible. To the point where it is not credible to believe he is NOT Russocompromised.
These allegations in the specific are unproven because it's difficult to get blackmail material from an enemy intelligence service unless they want you to have it. I could believe that these specific allegations were false or inaccurate, but as I said they are a MacGuffin.
posted by tel3path at 7:01 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
The allegation that Annoying Orange is Russocompromised is credible. To the point where it is not credible to believe he is NOT Russocompromised.
These allegations in the specific are unproven because it's difficult to get blackmail material from an enemy intelligence service unless they want you to have it. I could believe that these specific allegations were false or inaccurate, but as I said they are a MacGuffin.
posted by tel3path at 7:01 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
So you think the FBI sought a FISA warrant based on Pizzagate level allegations?
posted by diogenes at 7:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 7:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Oops: @RealDonaldTrump tweet continues: Totally made up facts by sleazebag political operatives, both Democrats and Republicans - FAKE NEWS! Russia says nothing exists. Probably...
@realDonaldTrump: released by "Intelligence" even knowing there is no proof, and never will be. My people will have a full report on hacking within 90 days!
All [REAL]
posted by carmicha at 7:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
@realDonaldTrump: released by "Intelligence" even knowing there is no proof, and never will be. My people will have a full report on hacking within 90 days!
All [REAL]
posted by carmicha at 7:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not taking about russocompromised (and even then it's sketchy) but this whole paying hookers to piss affair.
posted by Talez at 7:03 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Talez at 7:03 AM on January 13, 2017
It is not because it's Trump, it's because of Trump's conduct being consistent with him being Russocompromised. I believe this because Trump himself behaves as if it were true.
posted by tel3path at 7:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't care about piddling hookers.
posted by tel3path at 7:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which is why we're all saying that we don't give a shit about hookers and piss.
posted by lydhre at 7:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Don't forget, though, that the Russians are adept at feeding plausible misinformation to Western security agencies and journalists. and a badly compromised presidency through this mechanism is as welcome to Putin as one that is actually blackmailed.
Steele would know this better than anyone, but he's not working for the government any more, he's a PI trying to keep his clients happy. Did he apply different filters to what he heard? Don't know.
And they said the end of the Cold War meant the end of the classic spy novel...
posted by Devonian at 7:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Steele would know this better than anyone, but he's not working for the government any more, he's a PI trying to keep his clients happy. Did he apply different filters to what he heard? Don't know.
And they said the end of the Cold War meant the end of the classic spy novel...
posted by Devonian at 7:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not taking about russocompromised (and even then it's sketchy) but this whole paying hookers to piss affair.
Yeah, we're not having the same conversation then. I'm talking about russocompromised.
posted by diogenes at 7:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, we're not having the same conversation then. I'm talking about russocompromised.
posted by diogenes at 7:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Charlie Pierce: There Are No Checks. There Are No Balances.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [67 favorites]
If there is a more purely mendacious figure in our politics these days than Congressman Jason Chaffetz of Utah, I don't particularly want to meet that person without a team of lawyers and perhaps a cream pie. First, he promised to investigate a prospective President Hillary Clinton from hell to breakfast. Then, confronted with the fact that the president-elect has built a career on various grifts and scams and that he has no intention to stop now, Chaffetz urged prudence and caution in his oversight job. But he topped himself on Thursday.Chaffetz, as many of you may know, was a NeverTrumper who claimed he'd never be able to face his daughter if he defended Trump.
Earlier this week, Walter Shaub, the director of the nonpartisan Office of Government Ethics, gave a speech in which he pointed out the obvious fact that the "arrangement" that the president-elect announced the other day regarding his business arrangements is neither remotely acceptable nor remotely believable. Chaffetz's response?
Let's investigate Walter Schaub
posted by zombieflanders at 7:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [67 favorites]
I don't forget that, it's Trump himself that convinces me.
posted by tel3path at 7:07 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:07 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, we're not having the same conversation then. I'm talking about russocompromised.
Yeah I think we're talking past each other.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on January 13, 2017
Yeah I think we're talking past each other.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on January 13, 2017
Whether or not Russia benefits from our thinking Trump is compromised, it seems to be a fact. Unless he is supporting them out of pure conviction, which would be out of character.
posted by tel3path at 7:10 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:10 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
No it's not. It's currently the liberal equivalent of Pizzagate. There's nothing real there as much as people want there to be. The only reason they even appear credible is because it seems plausible because, you know, it's Trump.
The hotel-room allegations are the ha-ha, unsubstantiated rumors and, while funny, are not really what people are talking about in terms of "take this seriously!" The financial ties and words and actions of Trump and his people are the part of the dossier that, combined with other known facts, raise questions about Trump's allegiances. Pizzagate would have been more concerning if Hillary Clinton had a history of supporting policies that would increase the incidence of child sex trafficking or decrease the punishments for those accused of child sex trafficking and had nominated a NAMBLA member as her Secretary of State. In fact, her entire existence has been the opposite - advocating for the welfare of children, particularly girls vulnerable to sex trafficking. Also, aside from the question of whether the alleged sex worker was working consensually, the allegation behind PeeGate is "embarrassing" to Trump but (were it not used as blackmail to induce him to commit treason) is not otherwise accusing criminal behavior on his part or implicating the entire US government in some sort of Secret Pee-Lovers Conspiracy Cover Up Ring.
So, no, this is nothing like Pizzagate.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [60 favorites]
The hotel-room allegations are the ha-ha, unsubstantiated rumors and, while funny, are not really what people are talking about in terms of "take this seriously!" The financial ties and words and actions of Trump and his people are the part of the dossier that, combined with other known facts, raise questions about Trump's allegiances. Pizzagate would have been more concerning if Hillary Clinton had a history of supporting policies that would increase the incidence of child sex trafficking or decrease the punishments for those accused of child sex trafficking and had nominated a NAMBLA member as her Secretary of State. In fact, her entire existence has been the opposite - advocating for the welfare of children, particularly girls vulnerable to sex trafficking. Also, aside from the question of whether the alleged sex worker was working consensually, the allegation behind PeeGate is "embarrassing" to Trump but (were it not used as blackmail to induce him to commit treason) is not otherwise accusing criminal behavior on his part or implicating the entire US government in some sort of Secret Pee-Lovers Conspiracy Cover Up Ring.
So, no, this is nothing like Pizzagate.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [60 favorites]
The hotel-room allegations are the ha-ha, unsubstantiated rumors and, while funny, are not really what people are talking about in terms of "take this seriously!"
Yeah but the original point I was responding to was complaining that Obama didn't take the hotel room allegations specifically seriously. I think the russocompromised stuff needs to be taken very seriously but the hotel room memo was complete bunk and the way the liberal political sphere latched on to it was disgusting.
posted by Talez at 7:16 AM on January 13, 2017
Yeah but the original point I was responding to was complaining that Obama didn't take the hotel room allegations specifically seriously. I think the russocompromised stuff needs to be taken very seriously but the hotel room memo was complete bunk and the way the liberal political sphere latched on to it was disgusting.
posted by Talez at 7:16 AM on January 13, 2017
Unless he is supporting them out of pure conviction, which would be out of character.
You never know, it is possible that he's just really passionate about Crimea being part of Russia. Maybe he did a report about Crimea in grade school or something.
posted by diogenes at 7:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
You never know, it is possible that he's just really passionate about Crimea being part of Russia. Maybe he did a report about Crimea in grade school or something.
posted by diogenes at 7:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah but the original point I was responding to was complaining that Obama didn't take the hotel room allegations specifically seriously.
The quote we're talking about implies that he was dismissive of the entire report.
posted by diogenes at 7:19 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The quote we're talking about implies that he was dismissive of the entire report.
posted by diogenes at 7:19 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Important Information for Everyone Attending WMW: Due to Security Considerations – D.C. Area Law Enforcement has enacted the Following Policy for the Women’s March on Washington
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:21 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:21 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Biden confirms Obama, VP were briefed on unsubstantiated claims against Trump [Cnn; autoplay video]
CNN first reported that the nation's top intelligence chiefs provided both the President and President-elect a two-page written synopsis of the claims, which came from a 35-page report compiled by a former British intelligence operative based on Russian sources. Intelligence agencies appended a two-page summary of the unverified allegations to documents prepared for the briefing on Russian meddling in the 2016 US presidential election.posted by melissasaurus at 7:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Biden's office confirmed that the vice president said he and Obama were briefed about the claims but said that neither Biden nor Obama asked for more information about them. Biden's office also said the vice president told reporters that intelligence leaders felt obligated to tell Obama because they were planning on informing Trump. Biden also said he read the entire 35-page report.
Biden's office also confirmed that Obama, according to the vice president, asked, "What does this have to do with anything?"
Woof, finally caught up. So, in our whole Michturian Candidate situation, how on earth did the writers miss the opportunity to have Melania as a the Russian sleeper spy? I'm just saying, if they're going to go all tropes all the time, how did they miss that one?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
God Trump is the king of kick the can. Full report in 90 days, my ass. A dog will eat his fucking report.
posted by Yowser at 7:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
in other words the report may not mean much, the fact that Trump flaunts his allegiances does, so they bring the report out as if it were a "smoking gun" in order to convince people that action must be taken.
I don't know what action could be taken though other than impeachment, according to the BBC that's all that's left and it's unlikely the Rs will do that.
It's also a big red flag that the world can see. Don't trust this admin. There have been reports of US IC telling other countries 'do not trust this guy'. I know the one about Israel was posted here but didn't get much comment. If these reports are correct and this is actually happening that's a huge big beeping sign that there is some serious inside maneuvering going on.
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't know what action could be taken though other than impeachment, according to the BBC that's all that's left and it's unlikely the Rs will do that.
It's also a big red flag that the world can see. Don't trust this admin. There have been reports of US IC telling other countries 'do not trust this guy'. I know the one about Israel was posted here but didn't get much comment. If these reports are correct and this is actually happening that's a huge big beeping sign that there is some serious inside maneuvering going on.
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
Undoubtedly. Whatever is relly going on is not knowable to us.
posted by tel3path at 7:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 7:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The BBC claimed there were multiple incidents which were filmed on multiple dates with both video and audio. They also claimed they have additional sources beyond the leaked dossier.
I don't care whether he is into piss play or not, only that the FSB would have leverage on him to change his actions as President. And, when you take into his whole history with the Hollywood Access tape and that he's been coming to Russia since 1987, at no point did I think, "Sex with prostitutes? That seems so out of character for Donald!" And, when you take into account Putin's history as an FSB officer for 14 years and the FSB's MO of getting kompromat on politicians, at no point did I think, "Blackmailing people? That seems so out of character for Vlad!"
But none of this would be sticking if Trump himself wasn't pivoting in such a radical manner to oddly pro-Putin stances in the face of the allegations.
posted by bluecore at 7:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [54 favorites]
I don't care whether he is into piss play or not, only that the FSB would have leverage on him to change his actions as President. And, when you take into his whole history with the Hollywood Access tape and that he's been coming to Russia since 1987, at no point did I think, "Sex with prostitutes? That seems so out of character for Donald!" And, when you take into account Putin's history as an FSB officer for 14 years and the FSB's MO of getting kompromat on politicians, at no point did I think, "Blackmailing people? That seems so out of character for Vlad!"
But none of this would be sticking if Trump himself wasn't pivoting in such a radical manner to oddly pro-Putin stances in the face of the allegations.
posted by bluecore at 7:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [54 favorites]
Biden's office also confirmed that Obama, according to the vice president, asked, "What does this have to do with anything?"
And the question is why is it important the Biden's office confirms Obama said this.
posted by Jalliah at 7:34 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
And the question is why is it important the Biden's office confirms Obama said this.
posted by Jalliah at 7:34 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
At no point is he going to act like he isn't thoroughly compromised by Russia, that's for sure. Likewise everyone he surrounds himself with.
posted by Artw at 7:34 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:34 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't care whether he is into piss play or not, only that the FSB would have leverage on him to change his actions as President.
I know we say it a lot, but what else could they have at this point? The value of blackmail isn't in the exposing. They spent all this time finding and making compromising material without realizing that he is simply a weak-willed moron who will threaten in public and fold in private, then go along with whomever speaks last.
posted by Etrigan at 7:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know we say it a lot, but what else could they have at this point? The value of blackmail isn't in the exposing. They spent all this time finding and making compromising material without realizing that he is simply a weak-willed moron who will threaten in public and fold in private, then go along with whomever speaks last.
posted by Etrigan at 7:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Woof, finally caught up. So, in our whole Michturian Candidate situation, how on earth did the writers miss the opportunity to have Melania as a the Russian sleeper spy? I'm just saying, if they're going to go all tropes all the time, how did they miss that one?
She's not a sleeper spy as far as we know, anyway.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet
Ha!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
She's not a sleeper spy as far as we know, anyway.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet
Ha!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
You never know, it is possible that he's just really passionate about Crimea being part of Russia.
I mean, maybe, but you can't spell Ukraine without Urine.
the hotel room memo was complete bunk and the way the liberal political sphere latched on to it was disgusting.
Alright, yes I'll stop. You're right.
Thing is though, the lurid sex stuff is the big shiny star that draws attention to the whole thing.
Because media runs on sensationalism and because a lot of people are jaded about allegations this and corruption that I think the squalid pee details have been sensationalist enough to actually grab some attention.
The fact that it's then attached to a bunch of plausible, though unsubstatiated stuff that actually does matter means that suddenly there is a route through to the better stuff.
You can make a story trail from it. Like:
Serious Spy Person says new solid evidence of financial ties to russia, like that other dossier says, you know, the hookers and pee one.
or,
Top Judges say Trump breached law so and so, first hinted at by the report released by buzzfeed (Guys, the pee one you remember the pee one).
Yeah, it's sordid and silly and really is taking the low road, but it's a big shiny coin in the attention economy. People remember it, people joke about it but it is only useful because of the other stuff attached to it.
This is my elaborate excuse for the three of four dumb pee jokes I have made. (But I will stop making them now)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean, maybe, but you can't spell Ukraine without Urine.
the hotel room memo was complete bunk and the way the liberal political sphere latched on to it was disgusting.
Alright, yes I'll stop. You're right.
Thing is though, the lurid sex stuff is the big shiny star that draws attention to the whole thing.
Because media runs on sensationalism and because a lot of people are jaded about allegations this and corruption that I think the squalid pee details have been sensationalist enough to actually grab some attention.
The fact that it's then attached to a bunch of plausible, though unsubstatiated stuff that actually does matter means that suddenly there is a route through to the better stuff.
You can make a story trail from it. Like:
Serious Spy Person says new solid evidence of financial ties to russia, like that other dossier says, you know, the hookers and pee one.
or,
Top Judges say Trump breached law so and so, first hinted at by the report released by buzzfeed (Guys, the pee one you remember the pee one).
Yeah, it's sordid and silly and really is taking the low road, but it's a big shiny coin in the attention economy. People remember it, people joke about it but it is only useful because of the other stuff attached to it.
This is my elaborate excuse for the three of four dumb pee jokes I have made. (But I will stop making them now)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
No one here seems to doubt that T has unacknowledged and serious obligations to Russia. But that damn report, in this climate, is toxic. I can't make up my mind whether it is more likely to come from the CIA or the FSB, but the fact that I'm considering both alternatives guarantees me that I will not be able to interpret its contents with any reliability.
posted by stonepharisee at 7:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by stonepharisee at 7:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hah 90 days in a Trump news cycle is like 4 presidential administrations. In 90 days we'll already be bombing Iran.
posted by dis_integration at 7:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hah 90 days in a Trump news cycle is like 4 presidential administrations. In 90 days we'll already be bombing Iran.
It's hard to believe it's only been 64 days, isn't it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's hard to believe it's only been 64 days, isn't it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump meeting with Steve Harvey today, per Sean Spicer
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:53 AM on January 13, 2017
Meanwhile...
@justinamash The new budget recklessly grows the national debt from around $20 trillion to around $30 trillion. It NEVER balances.
posted by Devonian at 7:54 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
@justinamash The new budget recklessly grows the national debt from around $20 trillion to around $30 trillion. It NEVER balances.
posted by Devonian at 7:54 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
@justinamash The new budget...
Justin Amash is the most useful "Look, we have a minority!" in the House right now. Look for him to take a larger public role, even occasionally "fighting back" against the most egregious GOP racism.
posted by Etrigan at 7:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Justin Amash is the most useful "Look, we have a minority!" in the House right now. Look for him to take a larger public role, even occasionally "fighting back" against the most egregious GOP racism.
posted by Etrigan at 7:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jared Kushner's East Village Tenants 'Horrified' Their Landlord Will Be Working in the White House [Village Voice]
posted by melissasaurus at 8:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Kushner bought the East Village building three years ago for $17 million and immediately began what tenant advocates call "construction as harassment": renovating vacant apartments in a way that makes life dangerous and miserable for the current residents, particularly the rent-stabilized ones. "We were breathing in dust and fumes. There was plaster everywhere. My ceiling collapsed a couple times. For six months we had to live like this." At one point there was a gas leak bad enough to cause the fire department to cordon off the entire block. [...]de Blasio has been such a disappointment. I know he'll probably be re-elected this year without much (if any) of a primary challenge, but I wish he was better.
This history didn’t stop Mayor Bill de Blasio from praising Kushner after the appointment was announced on January 9.[...]
"Mayor de Blasio seems hopeful that his friendly relationship with Jared Kushner may be of some benefit to New York City, but our community has not benefited at all from Kushner's ownership of close to forty buildings in the East Village," the Cooper Square Committee, which has organized tenants in several Kushner-owned buildings, and the Fourth Arts Block association said in a joint statement. [...]
"We felt the complete lack of empathy and compassion from our landlord," she adds. "The whole country’s going to experience what we’ve been going through."
Kushner never once showed up to meet with tenants at 170 East 2nd Street to respond to their complaints about the construction, says Siwek. That, she believes, reflects his business ideology. "He couldn’t care less about human suffering," she says. "He couldn’t care less about the city. He couldn’t care less about anything but his money and his family." And he "stays very far away" from the results of his actions.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump meeting with Steve Harvey today, per Sean Spicer
Why? And why are we supposed to care Spiceman?
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on January 13, 2017
Why? And why are we supposed to care Spiceman?
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on January 13, 2017
There's nothing any of us can interpret with any reliability except what we see in plain sight, which right now is Trump's twitter feed.
posted by tel3path at 8:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 8:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump meeting with Steve Harvey today, per Sean Spicer
Harvey will be in full Family Feud mode, head in hand, shouting "You can't say 'grab 'em by the pussy' on TV!"
posted by delfin at 8:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Harvey will be in full Family Feud mode, head in hand, shouting "You can't say 'grab 'em by the pussy' on TV!"
posted by delfin at 8:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
but given the current situation it's really disgraceful how fast and hard we've hammered it and propagated the cycle with our own version of /r/forwardsfromgrandma.
Disgraceful? Fuck that. Regardless of the veracity of any of this, if making fun of Donald Trump on an internet forum is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now, Republicans or not.
a - they've got something up their sleeves they think will solve this problem
b - they don't see this as a problem at all, it's how it's been for years, and they no longer care enough about it to keep it hidden
My guess would be C) many people in the top levels of intelligence and political power are freaking the fuck out right about now, but, like, passengers on the Titanic, are beginning to realize that they're looking at a gigantic fucking hole and have no idea what to do next.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Disgraceful? Fuck that. Regardless of the veracity of any of this, if making fun of Donald Trump on an internet forum is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now, Republicans or not.
a - they've got something up their sleeves they think will solve this problem
b - they don't see this as a problem at all, it's how it's been for years, and they no longer care enough about it to keep it hidden
My guess would be C) many people in the top levels of intelligence and political power are freaking the fuck out right about now, but, like, passengers on the Titanic, are beginning to realize that they're looking at a gigantic fucking hole and have no idea what to do next.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well this looks interesting.
AP Source: Trump aide in frequent contact with Russia envoyposted by Brainy at 8:07 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
A senior U.S. official says the Obama administration is aware of frequent contacts between President-elect Donald Trump's top national security adviser and Russia's ambassador to the United States.
Here's a link. It's an AP wire story, so there are any number of places publishing it.
posted by jedicus at 8:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 8:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump meeting with Steve Harvey today, per Sean Spicer
Why? And why are we supposed to care Spiceman?
Maybe Steve will show him how to tie a fucking tie.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why? And why are we supposed to care Spiceman?
Maybe Steve will show him how to tie a fucking tie.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:11 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well who doesn't do background checks and oppo research? If they disn't knpw who they were deling with long ago they must have been asleep.
The Hillary Pillory just prior to rhe election seems too much like projection to be a coincidence.
posted by tel3path at 8:12 AM on January 13, 2017
The Hillary Pillory just prior to rhe election seems too much like projection to be a coincidence.
posted by tel3path at 8:12 AM on January 13, 2017
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now
What makes you think they aren't? Yes, they aren't doing it in public, but covert intelligence typically doesn't execute their planning in public. If they're in crisis-response mode, then they aren't going to be running around like chickens with their heads cut off, they're going to be grimly laying down a strategy and not talking about it.
Why, yes, I have come around to the point where a CIA-backed coup or uprising is starting to look like an acceptable way for things to pan out. That's how pessimistic I have become about the potential for America to actually weather this administration.
posted by jackbishop at 8:14 AM on January 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
What makes you think they aren't? Yes, they aren't doing it in public, but covert intelligence typically doesn't execute their planning in public. If they're in crisis-response mode, then they aren't going to be running around like chickens with their heads cut off, they're going to be grimly laying down a strategy and not talking about it.
Why, yes, I have come around to the point where a CIA-backed coup or uprising is starting to look like an acceptable way for things to pan out. That's how pessimistic I have become about the potential for America to actually weather this administration.
posted by jackbishop at 8:14 AM on January 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
DOJ finds "reasonable cause to believe" Chicago PD engages in pattern or practice of using excessive force violating 4th Amendment
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yikes, the terribly slow tying of the current thread led to en errant : at the front of the link. But yes, Jedicus linked it.
posted by Brainy at 8:15 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Brainy at 8:15 AM on January 13, 2017
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now
They've already advised the Israel Defense Force to stop sharing intel with the US.
No doubt they've told NATO the same thing, and no doubt NATO already knows.
posted by ocschwar at 8:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
They've already advised the Israel Defense Force to stop sharing intel with the US.
No doubt they've told NATO the same thing, and no doubt NATO already knows.
posted by ocschwar at 8:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
"the Obama administration is aware of it" doesn't really cut it now. The Obama administration is over. There's nothing left to be done. He takes over in a week.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why, yes, I have come around to the point where a CIA-backed coup or uprising is starting to look like an acceptable way for things to pan out. That's how pessimistic I have become about the potential for America and everyone on Earth to actually weather this administration.
posted by Jalliah at 8:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 8:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
but given the current situation it's really disgraceful how fast and hard we've hammered it and propagated the cycle with our own version of /r/forwardsfromgrandma.
1) No one is demanding that Trump resign from the Presidency because he may or may not have taken a squirt to the mouth from Olga. No one is pointing to it and saying "this makes him unfit for the office." There are approximately 4.2881E+12 other things that make that point.
2) The Mel Brooks Rule: One of the best ways of dealing with evil is to make it look and sound ridiculous, and find ways to get everyone to mock it and laugh at it. Again, this is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy where Trump is concerned. However, when (slightly less than) half the voting public elects a man to Leader Of The Free World[tm] in the name of Bringing Back Respectability and Bringing Back Morals and Bringing Back Real Christian Values and Bringing Back That Old Time Religion and he's _not even in the office yet_ when word gets out alleging that Russian hookers pissed in his mouth on tape... that's fuckin' funny.
3) The hard right just spent eight years throwing mountains of wet shit at America about how Barack is a Muslim, Barack is from Kenya, Barack is hiding his birth certificate, Hillary intentionally held back Benghazi rescue teams, Hillary is a secret lesbian, Hillary is going to jail, Hillary is running child sex rings in pizzerias, Christianity is about to be outlawed, Sharia law is coming, martial law is coming, practice runs for armed coups are taking place in abandoned Wal-Marts, Obama's mother is getting a lifetime pension and Democrats burned baby Jesus in his manger.
It's OUR FUCKING TURN to do some shitflinging.
posted by delfin at 8:19 AM on January 13, 2017 [65 favorites]
1) No one is demanding that Trump resign from the Presidency because he may or may not have taken a squirt to the mouth from Olga. No one is pointing to it and saying "this makes him unfit for the office." There are approximately 4.2881E+12 other things that make that point.
2) The Mel Brooks Rule: One of the best ways of dealing with evil is to make it look and sound ridiculous, and find ways to get everyone to mock it and laugh at it. Again, this is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy where Trump is concerned. However, when (slightly less than) half the voting public elects a man to Leader Of The Free World[tm] in the name of Bringing Back Respectability and Bringing Back Morals and Bringing Back Real Christian Values and Bringing Back That Old Time Religion and he's _not even in the office yet_ when word gets out alleging that Russian hookers pissed in his mouth on tape... that's fuckin' funny.
3) The hard right just spent eight years throwing mountains of wet shit at America about how Barack is a Muslim, Barack is from Kenya, Barack is hiding his birth certificate, Hillary intentionally held back Benghazi rescue teams, Hillary is a secret lesbian, Hillary is going to jail, Hillary is running child sex rings in pizzerias, Christianity is about to be outlawed, Sharia law is coming, martial law is coming, practice runs for armed coups are taking place in abandoned Wal-Marts, Obama's mother is getting a lifetime pension and Democrats burned baby Jesus in his manger.
It's OUR FUCKING TURN to do some shitflinging.
posted by delfin at 8:19 AM on January 13, 2017 [65 favorites]
Gallup released some bad news for the ratings obsessed president-elect: Approval of Trump Transition Still Low as Inauguration Nears
posted by peeedro at 8:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 8:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Melania as a the Russian sleeper spy?
Nah. Melania is a CIA asset working to destroy Trump from the inside. Remember her RNC speech? And those tax returns released from Trump Tower?
posted by asteria at 8:27 AM on January 13, 2017
Nah. Melania is a CIA asset working to destroy Trump from the inside. Remember her RNC speech? And those tax returns released from Trump Tower?
posted by asteria at 8:27 AM on January 13, 2017
"Say it with me people: Michael Flynn is the FISA wiretap target that the Guardian/Heat St reported on ...
Michael "I was the first U.S. officer ever allowed inside the headquarters of the GRU [Russian intelligence]. I was able to brief their entire staff. I gave them a leadership OPD and talked a lot about the way the world’s unfolding" Flynn.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:29 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Michael "I was the first U.S. officer ever allowed inside the headquarters of the GRU [Russian intelligence]. I was able to brief their entire staff. I gave them a leadership OPD and talked a lot about the way the world’s unfolding" Flynn.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:29 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gallup released some bad news for the ratings obsessed president-elect: Approval of Trump Transition Still Low as Inauguration Nears
FAKE NEWS! WITCH HUNT! SAD! [fake]
posted by Jalliah at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
FAKE NEWS! WITCH HUNT! SAD! [fake]
posted by Jalliah at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pankaj Mishra has a great piece in Guardian today on the history of racism in the US, and how it's a part of the country's founding ideals and ever-present wallpaper rather than an aberration:
posted by byanyothername at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Racial degradation of non-whites became a form of democratic solidarity in the US in the turbulent late 19th century. For both rightwing and leftwing populists, it was a way to unite white “wage slaves” against Asian immigrants and African Americans, and heal the wounds to their dignity. Fresh immigrants from Ireland could also achieve honorary whiteness by persecuting African Americans – the colour line was negotiable for some people at least. If antisemitism in Europe was the socialism of fools, racism in late 19th-century America was the democracy of the aggrieved left-behinds and pushy newcomers.And so on.
Many progressives, as Du Bois saw clearly, were complicit in it. The trust-busting American president Theodore Roosevelt swore by political equality, economic security and social opportunity for all Americans. But his inclusive order pitilessly rejected non-whites. Wishing to “tighten”, in Henry James’s mordant assessment, “the screws of the national consciousness as they have never been tightened before”, Roosevelt hoped that war and conquest abroad would forge racial unity and democracy at home. The original liberal internationalist Woodrow Wilson was hardly atypical in his reverence for what he called the “great Ku Klux Klan”, which had emerged after the end of slavery to protect whites from “the votes of ignorant Negroes”.
posted by byanyothername at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out
New rules issued by the Obama administration under Executive Order 12333 will let the NSA—which collects information under that authority with little oversight, transparency, or concern for privacy—share the raw streams of communications it intercepts directly with agencies including the FBI, the DEA, and the Department of Homeland Security, according to a report today by the New York Times.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
...
However—and this is especially troubling—“if analysts stumble across evidence that an American has committed any crime, they will send it to the Justice Department,” the Times wrote. So information that was collected without a warrant—or indeed any involvement by a court at all—for foreign intelligence purposes with little to no privacy protections, can be accessed raw and unfiltered by domestic law enforcement agencies to prosecute Americans with no involvement in threats to national security.
...
Obviously, and not for the first time, we are disappointed in the Obama administration.
I feel fairly certain Flynn is the genuine Russian asset in all this. Fired by the Obama admin, he got real cozy with Russia, and now he's feeding Trump Putin's agenda. The Flynn-Mattis fight is going to be a nasty one.
posted by dis_integration at 8:32 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 8:32 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I honestly don't understand why Obama would do that, to the point that I wonder if he is trying to get a court to overturn the whole thing as unconstitutional.
posted by prefpara at 8:36 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 8:36 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's OUR FUCKING TURN to do some shitflinging.
And any time that Trump & Co. are focused on defending against stuff like this is time and energy that they're not devoting to doing all the horrible things they want to do.
Keep them off-balance, keep them back on their heels. In a normal administration, of course, the press secretary and low-level flunkies would be out dismissing allegations like this while the actual decision-makers keep themselves above the fray and focus on their policy priorities. But happily, Trump can't stop himself from lashing out on Twitter and he sets the tone of massive distraction over every little criticism of his greatness. We need to press our advantage there, it continues to build on the narrative that he's a petty, un-presidential, corrupt little man with questionable ties to semi-hostile foreign powers.
I haven't made pee jokes myself, it's not really my thing. But if that's what it takes to break through the sensationalist screen, then so be it. He needs to be a laughing-stock -- that's how you take down a bully who has all the power.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [41 favorites]
And any time that Trump & Co. are focused on defending against stuff like this is time and energy that they're not devoting to doing all the horrible things they want to do.
Keep them off-balance, keep them back on their heels. In a normal administration, of course, the press secretary and low-level flunkies would be out dismissing allegations like this while the actual decision-makers keep themselves above the fray and focus on their policy priorities. But happily, Trump can't stop himself from lashing out on Twitter and he sets the tone of massive distraction over every little criticism of his greatness. We need to press our advantage there, it continues to build on the narrative that he's a petty, un-presidential, corrupt little man with questionable ties to semi-hostile foreign powers.
I haven't made pee jokes myself, it's not really my thing. But if that's what it takes to break through the sensationalist screen, then so be it. He needs to be a laughing-stock -- that's how you take down a bully who has all the power.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [41 favorites]
I honestly don't understand why Obama would do that, to the point that I wonder if he is trying to get a court to overturn the whole thing as unconstitutional.
The wishful thinking part of me says it's because NSA already has something on Trump or an associate that they couldn't share with FBI otherwise.
posted by stopgap at 8:40 AM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
The wishful thinking part of me says it's because NSA already has something on Trump or an associate that they couldn't share with FBI otherwise.
posted by stopgap at 8:40 AM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
I honestly don't understand why Obama would do that,
Obama in this past week has really been puzzling and infuriating me. It's like he's got a bucket list of chaos. From surveillance expansion to making sure he fucks over Cubans and makes immigration more restrictive on the way out, I just plain don't understand the man.
posted by corb at 8:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Obama in this past week has really been puzzling and infuriating me. It's like he's got a bucket list of chaos. From surveillance expansion to making sure he fucks over Cubans and makes immigration more restrictive on the way out, I just plain don't understand the man.
posted by corb at 8:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
'The Soul's Gonna Speak': Run The Jewels Stares Down A Fraught 2017 (NPR, January 13, 2017)
Killer Mike, an ardent Bernie (or Bernard, if you're Mike) supporter, and El-P (who come together to form Run The Jewels) shared their thoughts on Obama's farewell address, and what _rump means for the near future:
Killer Mike, an ardent Bernie (or Bernard, if you're Mike) supporter, and El-P (who come together to form Run The Jewels) shared their thoughts on Obama's farewell address, and what _rump means for the near future:
"When [Obama] started talking about activism, lacing up your boots, hitting the streets, I was actually live tweeting during it," Killer Mike says. "It sounds like someone has been listening to the OG: the old guy Bernie."posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Clearly, neither artist is a Trump supporter. But they also say they aren't dreading the transition.
"I don't have a sense of dread, to be honest," Killer Mike explains. "And older black people I talk to don't have sense of dread, who've lived under Nixon and who've lived under duplicitous presidents and governors before. So, no: What I have is a sense of what's next. And what can we do to take care of ourselves."
At this point, El-P, who happens to be white, chimes in. "I think that it's a mistake to let our history off the hook so much so to say the Trump is introducing the idea of dread into American culture," he says.
Gallup released some bad news for the ratings obsessed president-elect: Approval of Trump Transition Still Low as Inauguration Nears
It's way worse than that. Historically bad. The only reason we don't know about people who might have done worse is that we hadn't invented polling yet.
Here are the first Gallup approval ratings for the various Presidents since they invented reliable-ish polling compared to our next President's most recent rating:
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's way worse than that. Historically bad. The only reason we don't know about people who might have done worse is that we hadn't invented polling yet.
Here are the first Gallup approval ratings for the various Presidents since they invented reliable-ish polling compared to our next President's most recent rating:
President Net approval Truman 84 Eisenhower 61 Kennedy 66 Johnson 76 Nixon 54 Ford 68 Carter 58 Reagan 38 Bush1 45 Clinton 38 Bush2 37 Obama 54 Bumblefuck -07Dumb motherfucker is doing *64* points worse than the average and is the worst by *44* points.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
I honestly don't understand why Obama would do that, to the point that I wonder if he is trying to get a court to overturn the whole thing as unconstitutional.
It's possible, I guess, but Occam's Razor says: "Obama is cautiously trying to abide by established norms and to provide a model of reasoned, high-minded leadership."
That's just his M.O. Love him, but that's who he is and he's not changed his stripes at all that I can see. It's not the leadership we need right now, but he's unfortunately not that leader and he isn't going to be. Hoping he will change is almost as foolhardy as hoping Trump will change.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:46 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's possible, I guess, but Occam's Razor says: "Obama is cautiously trying to abide by established norms and to provide a model of reasoned, high-minded leadership."
That's just his M.O. Love him, but that's who he is and he's not changed his stripes at all that I can see. It's not the leadership we need right now, but he's unfortunately not that leader and he isn't going to be. Hoping he will change is almost as foolhardy as hoping Trump will change.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:46 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Why would Obama increase surveillance now? I'll bite. The intelligence services loath Trump (the feeling is mutual). No matter what Trump thinks, he is not going to be able to tame them. Obama believes the intelligence services are one of the last powers that can restrain Trump. More surveillance power means more leverage against Trump and his actions.
I don't agree with this logic but I think this is what's going on.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:46 AM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
I don't agree with this logic but I think this is what's going on.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:46 AM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
The realization that there is no 11-dimensional chess is scary and jarring, like finding out Santa doesn't exist or the first time you realize your parents really can't help with this problem you're having, but it's part of growing up. The deep state isn't going to sort this one out, mainly because it's curled up in the fetal position in a smoke-filled backroom and wondering when the ultra-deep state will do something.
posted by Behemoth at 8:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 8:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Steve Harvey was recently egregiously racist and offensive in his "jokes" about Asian men, so OF COURSE Comrade Trumpski is now interested in him.
posted by TwoStride at 8:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 8:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
You know, I like Killer Mike, but I've listened to the lyrics of "Reagan" often enough to question his ability to distinguish different levels of evil and incompetence
And I'm with the sentiment "I'm glad Reagan's dead" but it's just his emphasizing that Ronald Wilson Reagan = 666 it's like yeah that's sort of interesting numerology but you just made yourself sound like a wackadoodle
posted by angrycat at 8:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
And I'm with the sentiment "I'm glad Reagan's dead" but it's just his emphasizing that Ronald Wilson Reagan = 666 it's like yeah that's sort of interesting numerology but you just made yourself sound like a wackadoodle
posted by angrycat at 8:52 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I agree, corb; I see all the sad articles about missing him (and yes, I would prefer to keep him than what we got) but then also he just thinks the state should surveill the shit out of us and I don't get that and never have. Why does such a smart man not understand how that power can be used to keep Trump or people like him in control forever? It's baffling.
And it isn't recent, he's been happy to go along with more surveillance/ busting whistleblowers his entire Presidency.
posted by emjaybee at 8:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
And it isn't recent, he's been happy to go along with more surveillance/ busting whistleblowers his entire Presidency.
posted by emjaybee at 8:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Here's your chilling-as-fuck news for the morning.
Commanding general of D.C. National Guard to be removed from post
“The timing is extremely unusual,” Schwartz said in an interview Friday morning, confirming a memo announcing his ouster that was obtained by The Washington Post. During the inauguration, Schwartz would command not only the members of the D.C. guard but also an additional 5,000 troops sent in from across the country to help. He also would oversee military air support protecting the nation’s capital during the inauguration.
“My troops will be on the street,” Schwartz, 65, said. “I’ll see them off but I won’t be able to welcome them back to the armory.” He said that he would “never plan to leave a mission in the middle of a battle.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 AM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
Commanding general of D.C. National Guard to be removed from post
“The timing is extremely unusual,” Schwartz said in an interview Friday morning, confirming a memo announcing his ouster that was obtained by The Washington Post. During the inauguration, Schwartz would command not only the members of the D.C. guard but also an additional 5,000 troops sent in from across the country to help. He also would oversee military air support protecting the nation’s capital during the inauguration.
“My troops will be on the street,” Schwartz, 65, said. “I’ll see them off but I won’t be able to welcome them back to the armory.” He said that he would “never plan to leave a mission in the middle of a battle.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 AM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
I was listening to my Serbian-language news podcast last night (Radio Free Europe - Serbia) and they said that Milorad Dodik had been invited to attend the Trump inagauration, but was denied a visa by the U.S.
The "Controversy" section of Dodik's Wikipedia entry will give you an idea of why this is a troubling diplomatic overture from the incoming administration; I would assume this idea originated with Bannon.
Someone can probably explain this better who knows more about the geopolitics of the Balkans, but in brief, Dodik is the President of Republika Srpska, the autonomous region within Bosnia populated mostly by Bosnian Serbs. He is an advocate/representation of the kind of politics which advocates for a kind of Serbian nationalism - to the point that he wants Republika Srpska to secede from Bosnia (and presumably join Serbia). Because, you see, it has many ethnic Serbs living in it, just as Crimea had many ethnic Russians.....
Here is a link to an English-language news article about the invitation.
posted by Aubergine at 9:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The "Controversy" section of Dodik's Wikipedia entry will give you an idea of why this is a troubling diplomatic overture from the incoming administration; I would assume this idea originated with Bannon.
Someone can probably explain this better who knows more about the geopolitics of the Balkans, but in brief, Dodik is the President of Republika Srpska, the autonomous region within Bosnia populated mostly by Bosnian Serbs. He is an advocate/representation of the kind of politics which advocates for a kind of Serbian nationalism - to the point that he wants Republika Srpska to secede from Bosnia (and presumably join Serbia). Because, you see, it has many ethnic Serbs living in it, just as Crimea had many ethnic Russians.....
Here is a link to an English-language news article about the invitation.
posted by Aubergine at 9:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jennifer Holliday, Toby Keith, Jon Voight, 3 Doors Down to Play Trump Inauguration Concert at Lincoln Memorial
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on January 13, 2017
Toby Keith, there's a shocker.
posted by emjaybee at 9:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
“The timing is extremely unusual,”
It's just part and parcel of their dumb-as-hell "clean sweep" plan. Everyone else is just going to be off work anyway, so they aren't being specifically told to stand down at 12:01.
And he's not the "commanding officer" of the DC National Guard the way most people think of commanding officers -- a state (/district/territory) Adjutant General is like the Secretary of Defense -- technically in a chain of command, but really more of an administrator (which is why he's a Presidential appointee in DC -- the other ones are appointed by their Governors). No DC NG soldier will be standing around without orders, bereft of a command structure.
posted by Etrigan at 9:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's just part and parcel of their dumb-as-hell "clean sweep" plan. Everyone else is just going to be off work anyway, so they aren't being specifically told to stand down at 12:01.
And he's not the "commanding officer" of the DC National Guard the way most people think of commanding officers -- a state (/district/territory) Adjutant General is like the Secretary of Defense -- technically in a chain of command, but really more of an administrator (which is why he's a Presidential appointee in DC -- the other ones are appointed by their Governors). No DC NG soldier will be standing around without orders, bereft of a command structure.
posted by Etrigan at 9:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
3 Doors Down? "If I go crazy then will you still call me Superman?"
That's some symbolism there, Donny.
Well it looks like those talent bookers won't be getting ambassadorships.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's some symbolism there, Donny.
Well it looks like those talent bookers won't be getting ambassadorships.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
“My troops will be on the street,” Schwartz, 65, said. “I’ll see them off but I won’t be able to welcome them back to the armory.” He said that he would “never plan to leave a mission in the middle of a battle.”
Maybe they are better off without him if he regards a gathering of citizens in a public space in the U.S. as battle warfare.
posted by JackFlash at 9:09 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe they are better off without him if he regards a gathering of citizens in a public space in the U.S. as battle warfare.
posted by JackFlash at 9:09 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
That was my immediate reaction as well. If Schwartz considers the inauguration a "battle," then it's good he's being removed from his post.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:15 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Existential Dread at 9:15 AM on January 13, 2017
Anxious lawmakers to GOP leaders: What’s the plan to replace Obamacare?
These morons have voted 60 times to repeal Obamacare, but now that they're actually playing with live ammo, they're suddenly anxious?
posted by zachlipton at 9:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [46 favorites]
These morons have voted 60 times to repeal Obamacare, but now that they're actually playing with live ammo, they're suddenly anxious?
posted by zachlipton at 9:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [46 favorites]
It's just part and parcel of their dumb-as-hell "clean sweep" plan.
At home and abroad:
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
At home and abroad:
President-elect Donald J. Trump’s transition staff has issued a blanket edict requiring politically appointed ambassadors to leave their overseas posts by Inauguration Day, according to several American diplomats familiar with the plan, breaking with decades of precedent by declining to provide even the briefest of grace periods.Emphasis mine. More at the NYT
The mandate — issued “without exceptions,” according to a terse State Department cable sent on Dec. 23, diplomats who saw it said — threatens to leave the United States without Senate-confirmed envoys for months in critical nations like Germany, Canada and Britain. In the past, administrations of both parties have often granted extensions on a case-by-case basis to allow a handful of ambassadors, particularly those with school-age children, to remain in place for weeks or months.
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Dems 'outraged' with Comey after House briefing
A number of House Democrats left Friday's confidential briefing on Russian hacking fuming over the actions of FBI Director James Comey and convinced he's unfit to lead the agency.posted by melissasaurus at 9:17 AM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
"I was non-judgmental until the last 15 minutes. I no longer have that confidence in him," Rep. Tim Walz (D-Minn.), ranking member of the Veterans Affairs Committee, said as he left the meeting in the Capitol.
"Some of the things that were revealed in this classified briefing — my confidence has been shook."
Rep. Elijah Cummings (Md.), senior Democrat on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, delivered a similar condemnation.
"I'm extremely concerned — extremely," he said.
Oh come on. Military people think in military metaphors. He clearly has a very strong sense of duty, to his job and to his troops. He's being thrown out in the middle of a major national event through - what, spite? Stupidity? Knee-jerk strongman stuff?
Give the man a break.
posted by Devonian at 9:18 AM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
Give the man a break.
posted by Devonian at 9:18 AM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
Now this has gone too far. Donald Trump Declines to Issue Inaugural License Plates. Sad!
Every President since Hoover has had special license plates for the inaugural parade, but Trump's people didn't order any and say they'll just use ordinary DC ones, which ruins everything for the handful of people who collect complete sets of the things.
And if Trump isn't making inaugural license plate collecting great again, what other interest groups will he leave behind?
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Every President since Hoover has had special license plates for the inaugural parade, but Trump's people didn't order any and say they'll just use ordinary DC ones, which ruins everything for the handful of people who collect complete sets of the things.
And if Trump isn't making inaugural license plate collecting great again, what other interest groups will he leave behind?
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure skipping the Trump edition really counts as ruining a collection.
posted by cortex at 9:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by cortex at 9:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
> Rep. Elijah Cummings (Md.), senior Democrat on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, delivered a similar condemnation.
"I'm extremely concerned — extremely," he said.
That whole article is a masterclass in Democratic handwringing:
"I was non-judgmental until the last 15 minutes"
"I'll just — I'm very angry"
"extremely concerned"
"my confidence has been shook"
"I have concerns"
And best of all: "I'll wait to pass full judgment"
Strong words from strong leaders.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
"I'm extremely concerned — extremely," he said.
That whole article is a masterclass in Democratic handwringing:
"I was non-judgmental until the last 15 minutes"
"I'll just — I'm very angry"
"extremely concerned"
"my confidence has been shook"
"I have concerns"
And best of all: "I'll wait to pass full judgment"
Strong words from strong leaders.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm not sure skipping the Trump edition really counts as ruining a collection.
Never met a collector, have you?
posted by Etrigan at 9:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Never met a collector, have you?
posted by Etrigan at 9:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
> They'll just use ordinary DC [license plates]
The ones that say "No taxation without representation", hopefully? Why not plug DC statehood at the Inauguration.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The ones that say "No taxation without representation", hopefully? Why not plug DC statehood at the Inauguration.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, don't worry, I'll contradict even myself the next time a stupid but achievable cheevo stands between me and completionism on a game I'm playing.
posted by cortex at 9:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex at 9:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
No DC NG soldier will be standing around without orders, bereft of a command structure.
As both a DC resident and as someone who will be marching on the 20th and 21st, the important thing is who be issuing those orders and what they will be.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
As both a DC resident and as someone who will be marching on the 20th and 21st, the important thing is who be issuing those orders and what they will be.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
peeedro: Gallup released some bad news for the ratings obsessed president-elect: Approval of Trump Transition Still Low as Inauguration Nears
"His transition approval fell most among political independents" - to flip the snotty, sarcastic Conservative "how's that hopey, changey thing working," I'll ask "how's thatmake America great again pussy-grabbing, fear-mongering, casino-bankrupting thing working?"
Perhaps we can shorten it to "how's that thing working?"
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
"His transition approval fell most among political independents" - to flip the snotty, sarcastic Conservative "how's that hopey, changey thing working," I'll ask "how's that
Perhaps we can shorten it to "how's that thing working?"
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
zachlipton: Every President since Hoover has had special license plates for the inaugural parade, but Trump's people didn't order any and say they'll just use ordinary DC ones, which ruins everything for the handful of people who collect complete sets of the things.
Or perhaps they can rejoice and pretend that these gas leak years were just a fever dream plot that is generally ignored by people who care about keeping things canonical.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or perhaps they can rejoice and pretend that these gas leak years were just a fever dream plot that is generally ignored by people who care about keeping things canonical.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
These people are aware they have congressional immunity and can simply tell us what makes them so angry and concerned, right?
Anyway, another one down: Paul Anka Not Performing Trump Inauguration
posted by zachlipton at 9:29 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Anyway, another one down: Paul Anka Not Performing Trump Inauguration
posted by zachlipton at 9:29 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Shortly after the inauguration, Billy Porter will be singing Edelweiss at New York's Town Hall as part of Concert For America, a benefit created by Seth Rudetsky and James Wesley. The concert will be livestreamed on Facebook. Other performers include Chita Rivera, Kelli O'Hara, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Betty Buckley, Jessie Mueller, Sharon Gless, Andrea Martin, Bebe Neuwirth, Rosie O'Donnell, Rosie Perez, Lillias White, Judy Gold, Caroline Rhea, Stephanie Mills and Charles Busch.
Concert for America
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:29 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Concert for America
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:29 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Paul Anka Not Performing Trump Inauguration
The man or the dog?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
The man or the dog?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
No DC NG soldier will be standing around without orders, bereft of a command structure.
As both a DC resident and as someone who will be marching on the 20th and 21st, the important thing is who be issuing those orders and what they will be.
Most likely the Deputy AG, but effectively it'll be some lower-level commander who's been in place for years.
posted by Etrigan at 9:32 AM on January 13, 2017
As both a DC resident and as someone who will be marching on the 20th and 21st, the important thing is who be issuing those orders and what they will be.
Most likely the Deputy AG, but effectively it'll be some lower-level commander who's been in place for years.
posted by Etrigan at 9:32 AM on January 13, 2017
The 75-year-old musician was reportedly set to perform a customized version of his classic “My Way”—with lyrics altered to fit his long-time pal Trump...
I'll admit, I'm curious about those alterations...
posted by mcdoublewide at 9:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll admit, I'm curious about those alterations...
posted by mcdoublewide at 9:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Can you believe it? Those dumb bastards actually thought they were going to keep their insurance!"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:35 AM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:35 AM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Every President since Hoover has had special license plates for the inaugural parade, but Trump's people didn't order any and say they'll just use ordinary DC ones, which ruins everything for the handful of people who collect complete sets of the things.
The Trump inaugural plate is just a regular DC plate with the "without representation" covered in black tape.
posted by Talez at 9:37 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Trump inaugural plate is just a regular DC plate with the "without representation" covered in black tape.
posted by Talez at 9:37 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Does anyone else think that there might be a literal coup being planned? (As in round-up the opposition) Russia Today taking over CSPAN. Embassies left empty. The National Guard head of DC operations being replaced and the troops under the command of someone else. Trump telling the press "You're Fired." I know most of these can be explained by incompetence and Trump's ass-holedness, but still... I've never been right when I underestimated Trump.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [22 favorites]
Maybe Jon Voight is just going to get up on stage and do a bit in character as the evil poacher in Anaconda (which wouldn't actually be a whole lot different from his public persona these days).
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on January 13, 2017
A coup on top of a coup? That would be quite a coup.
posted by Artw at 9:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Coup Coup Cachoo.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
> A coup on top of a coup? That would be quite a coup.
A coup de grace to our Republic, if you will.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:44 AM on January 13, 2017
A coup de grace to our Republic, if you will.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:44 AM on January 13, 2017
"Yo, dog, I hear you like coups..."
posted by wenestvedt at 9:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 9:45 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The AP is also reporting, as David Ignatius did yesterday, that Flynn had frequent contacts with Russia's ambassador to the United States, including the day when President Obama expelled Russian agents and imposed sanctions.
posted by zachlipton at 9:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm now wondering about the precedents of overthrowing yourself to go from elected-by-roughly-democratic-process to full on dictator...
posted by Artw at 9:49 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:49 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I've never been right when I underestimated Trump.
Tell me about it. I always kind of thought that if and when our civil society went down the tubes it would be by the hand of some sort of supervillain genius, not...someone like Trump*.
* ultimately it might be Putin, who would totally qualify
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Tell me about it. I always kind of thought that if and when our civil society went down the tubes it would be by the hand of some sort of supervillain genius, not...someone like Trump*.
* ultimately it might be Putin, who would totally qualify
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Does anyone else think that there might be a literal coup being planned? (As in round-up the opposition) Russia Today taking over CSPAN. Embassies left empty. The National Guard head of DC operations being replaced and the troops under the command of someone else.
I'll admit that events are getting more and more unsettling, but I've got to think that if these were those sort of machinations, Obama wouldn't be telling us to focus on the importance of respecting institutions.
posted by diogenes at 9:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll admit that events are getting more and more unsettling, but I've got to think that if these were those sort of machinations, Obama wouldn't be telling us to focus on the importance of respecting institutions.
posted by diogenes at 9:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've got to think that if these were those sort of machinations, Obama wouldn't be telling us to focus on the importance of respecting institutions.
After everything that's happened I just don't have any faith in that idea.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:54 AM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
After everything that's happened I just don't have any faith in that idea.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:54 AM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Perhaps just a personalized license in gold with GO Pee Party.
posted by effluvia at 9:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by effluvia at 9:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Paul Anka Not Performing Trump Inauguration
The man or the dog?
Paul Anka the dog vs. Paul Anka the Paul Anka
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The man or the dog?
Paul Anka the dog vs. Paul Anka the Paul Anka
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
RawStory: Penthouse may have proof of Trump’s ‘golden shower’ tryst at Moscow hotel
posted by monospace at 9:59 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by monospace at 9:59 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, of course it's Penthouse.
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hah. You don't have to be an A-grade spook to assign probability to the RawStory story when it starts:
Posted with permission from International Business Times
Adult magazine Penthouse has received three claims for its $1 million offer to anyone who could provide real tapes of President-elect Donald Trump’s alleged and unproven sexual escapades at the Ritz-Carlton in Moscow, the publication’s editor exclusively revealed to International Business Times Thursday
posted by Devonian at 10:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Posted with permission from International Business Times
Adult magazine Penthouse has received three claims for its $1 million offer to anyone who could provide real tapes of President-elect Donald Trump’s alleged and unproven sexual escapades at the Ritz-Carlton in Moscow, the publication’s editor exclusively revealed to International Business Times Thursday
posted by Devonian at 10:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've got to think that if these were those sort of machinations, Obama wouldn't be telling us to focus on the importance of respecting institutions.
He also thought he could work and compromise with Republicans. Obama is Ned Stark, basically.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
He also thought he could work and compromise with Republicans. Obama is Ned Stark, basically.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
RawStory: Penthouse may have proof of Trump’s ‘golden shower’ tryst at Moscow hotel
I can only assume they found the Dear Penthouse letter signed off by a "John Miller".
posted by Talez at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I can only assume they found the Dear Penthouse letter signed off by a "John Miller".
posted by Talez at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Does anyone else think that there might be a literal coup being planned?
not by trump - i can't imagine why he would want to gamble like that when, for now, he's already won
the left would revolt and so would a good part of the right
posted by pyramid termite at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2017
not by trump - i can't imagine why he would want to gamble like that when, for now, he's already won
the left would revolt and so would a good part of the right
posted by pyramid termite at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2017
dirigibleman: Obama is Ned Stark, basically.
Except without the literal beheading (though _rump is rather Joff-like isn't he? Unstable blond-ish man-boy, not keen on keeping his word, fond of adoration, quickly upset when that adoration turns to jokes at his expense).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Except without the literal beheading (though _rump is rather Joff-like isn't he? Unstable blond-ish man-boy, not keen on keeping his word, fond of adoration, quickly upset when that adoration turns to jokes at his expense).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
On top of everything else now there's a Zambian goat shortage.
posted by XMLicious at 10:10 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 10:10 AM on January 13, 2017
Zambian Goat Shortage would be a good name for a band. Has anyone checked to see if such a band exists and whether they'll play the inauguration?
posted by zachlipton at 10:13 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:13 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
(They're the best Springsteen
springbok
Mountain Goats tribute band in the country!)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:14 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mountain Goats tribute band in the country!)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:14 AM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
If I find myself watching RT on the 20th as the National Guard rounds up the opposition, my disdain for Democrats is going to be almost as high as my disdain for Republicans.
posted by diogenes at 10:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 10:15 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
On _rump's swift "cleaning house abroad", the NYT piece focuses more on the troubles for a few well-to-do families who are stationed overseas for these appointed ambassadors positions, and glances past the idea that there could be larger country-to-country relation issues, which seems like the major concern.
Which pulls me into conspiracy territory, wondering what Putin wants, beyond further straining US international relations.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Which pulls me into conspiracy territory, wondering what Putin wants, beyond further straining US international relations.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
glances past the idea that there could be larger country-to-country relation issues, which seems like the major concern.
Which pulls me into conspiracy territory, wondering what Putin wants, beyond further straining US international relations.
Great, now you've got me thinking about it. The idea is that this would make it harder for Western countries to coordinate a response to something, right?
posted by diogenes at 10:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which pulls me into conspiracy territory, wondering what Putin wants, beyond further straining US international relations.
Great, now you've got me thinking about it. The idea is that this would make it harder for Western countries to coordinate a response to something, right?
posted by diogenes at 10:23 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
That and a free run at any expansion into bordering states he feels like, same as its ever been. Also probably Syria propped up as a client state and probably Turkey as a client state too.
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on January 13, 2017
Which pulls me into conspiracy territory, wondering what Putin wants, beyond further straining US international relations.
I think it's just that the current ambassadors wouldn't agree to the new administration's "flip the bird and pelvic thrust" style of international relations.
posted by Talez at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017
I think it's just that the current ambassadors wouldn't agree to the new administration's "flip the bird and pelvic thrust" style of international relations.
posted by Talez at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017
(They're the best Springsteen
springbok
Mountain Goats tribute band in the country!)
They're not even the best ever Mountain Goats tribute band out of Denton.
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
springbok
Mountain Goats tribute band in the country!)
They're not even the best ever Mountain Goats tribute band out of Denton.
posted by Etrigan at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
I will be eagerly devouring any history of this transition that explains in what parts Obama is right now like:
a) Here's the secret strategy okay and the expanding surveillance powers is essential to this strategy because X sorry leftists but it is Trump come on
b) IDGAF you idiots I gave you how many years in public service and you put this fucker in charge sign this sign that goodbye
posted by angrycat at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
a) Here's the secret strategy okay and the expanding surveillance powers is essential to this strategy because X sorry leftists but it is Trump come on
b) IDGAF you idiots I gave you how many years in public service and you put this fucker in charge sign this sign that goodbye
posted by angrycat at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Which pulls me into conspiracy territory, wondering what Putin wants, beyond further straining US international relations.
Great, now you've got me thinking about it. The idea is that this would make it harder for Western countries to coordinate a response to something, right?
OH SHIT YO IT'SROKO'S TRUMP'S BASILISK.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Great, now you've got me thinking about it. The idea is that this would make it harder for Western countries to coordinate a response to something, right?
OH SHIT YO IT'S
posted by wenestvedt at 10:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The dossier seems to suggest he only wants Ukraine, which seems like lowballing TBH. Once that has been acheived he'll be setting his sights higher.
posted by Artw at 10:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
you put this fucker in charge sign this sign that goodbye
That's what it feels like right now, and it's hard to believe. Without reason, I'm still optimistic that's not what's happening.
posted by diogenes at 10:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's what it feels like right now, and it's hard to believe. Without reason, I'm still optimistic that's not what's happening.
posted by diogenes at 10:27 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have to say, this increasingly bizarre world is not helping my internal sanity checks.
posted by corb at 10:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
It is possible that we will avoid the complete collapse of western democracy but it's certainly not a given.
posted by Artw at 10:36 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:36 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The idea is that this would make it harder for Western countries to coordinate a response to something, right?
That would probably be handled overwhelmingly by civil servants and career military anyway, who are sort of the autonomic nervous system of IR or government in general.
I'm pretty sure Trump's idea -- because he's an unstrategic impulse-driven asshole -- is just that he wants goodies to hand out ASAP. Ambassadors to desirable places especially are often donors, cronies, or other dipshits that (AFAIK which ain't much) the career staff on both sides have to work around.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
That would probably be handled overwhelmingly by civil servants and career military anyway, who are sort of the autonomic nervous system of IR or government in general.
I'm pretty sure Trump's idea -- because he's an unstrategic impulse-driven asshole -- is just that he wants goodies to hand out ASAP. Ambassadors to desirable places especially are often donors, cronies, or other dipshits that (AFAIK which ain't much) the career staff on both sides have to work around.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
On that note, Russia moves to decriminalize domestic violence
posted by theodolite at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by theodolite at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2017
Obama in this past week has really been puzzling and infuriating me. It's like he's got a bucket list of chaos. From surveillance expansion
I dunno. I can't help thinking that anything which empowers intelligence agencies right now is directed at the incoming Trump administration. Information directly from intelligence agencies to Justice Department sounds possibly like a way to give the Justice Dept. evidence they can use against Trump without having to go through a chain of command that includes his people. It's just... The timing of this.
to making sure he fucks over Cubans and makes immigration more restrictive on the way out, I just plain don't understand the man.
The whole "wet foot / dry foot" policy was fundamentally tied into our decades long feud with Castro's government. Cuban refugees got special status because Castro was just so terrible. If you're going to normalize relations with Cuba, it seems kind of inevitable that you will end up applying to Cuban immigrants to the same immigration rules as other to immigrants. I think this is just Obama tying up the loose ends on that normalization. If we continue treating Cuban immigrants differently, anti-Cuban forces will surely cite that as proof that we must consider the Cuban government to be uniquely bad, still, in which case we should also re-impose the embargoes...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
I dunno. I can't help thinking that anything which empowers intelligence agencies right now is directed at the incoming Trump administration. Information directly from intelligence agencies to Justice Department sounds possibly like a way to give the Justice Dept. evidence they can use against Trump without having to go through a chain of command that includes his people. It's just... The timing of this.
to making sure he fucks over Cubans and makes immigration more restrictive on the way out, I just plain don't understand the man.
The whole "wet foot / dry foot" policy was fundamentally tied into our decades long feud with Castro's government. Cuban refugees got special status because Castro was just so terrible. If you're going to normalize relations with Cuba, it seems kind of inevitable that you will end up applying to Cuban immigrants to the same immigration rules as other to immigrants. I think this is just Obama tying up the loose ends on that normalization. If we continue treating Cuban immigrants differently, anti-Cuban forces will surely cite that as proof that we must consider the Cuban government to be uniquely bad, still, in which case we should also re-impose the embargoes...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
I am struggling to understand why the top levels of Intelligence and political power in the US aren't FREAKING THE FUCK OUT right about now
After stumbling around in the TINGLEVERSE early this morning thanks to the blue I've been considering alternate timelines and a thought occurred to me: what if Comey/Obama/CIA had something on HRC that was so bad they had no choice but kneecap her. I realize it's a paranoid fever-dream but I still can't wrap my head around the fact that Trump is going to be inaugurated in just a few days and I'm grasping at anything to make sense of this.
Also, please don't make jokes about a coup. I'm in the south and insufficiantly armed to defend myself against the brown shirts.
posted by photoslob at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
After stumbling around in the TINGLEVERSE early this morning thanks to the blue I've been considering alternate timelines and a thought occurred to me: what if Comey/Obama/CIA had something on HRC that was so bad they had no choice but kneecap her. I realize it's a paranoid fever-dream but I still can't wrap my head around the fact that Trump is going to be inaugurated in just a few days and I'm grasping at anything to make sense of this.
Also, please don't make jokes about a coup. I'm in the south and insufficiantly armed to defend myself against the brown shirts.
posted by photoslob at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe I'll be a little less gloomy if France and Germany don't go to the fascists, on the other hand seeing his candidates loose could be what tips Putin into full scale European invasion.
By then who knows what the fuck America will look like? Maybe it'll be seen as Trump presiding over a huge disaster and hurt him, maybe everyone who could give a fuck will have been purged.
Everything feels fucked on every conceivable level right now.
posted by Artw at 10:42 AM on January 13, 2017
By then who knows what the fuck America will look like? Maybe it'll be seen as Trump presiding over a huge disaster and hurt him, maybe everyone who could give a fuck will have been purged.
Everything feels fucked on every conceivable level right now.
posted by Artw at 10:42 AM on January 13, 2017
All these actions could be setting the stage for an inaugural riot too, perhaps leading towards a declaration of martial law.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
After stumbling around in the TINGLEVERSE early this morning thanks to the blue I've been considering alternate timelines and a thought occurred to me: what if Comey/Obama/CIA had something on HRC that was so bad they had no choice but kneecap her.
But surely we all knew from the start that she was a woman.
posted by winna at 10:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [38 favorites]
But surely we all knew from the start that she was a woman.
posted by winna at 10:47 AM on January 13, 2017 [38 favorites]
H. Nolan in The Concourse: This Is Why You Don't Kiss The Ring:
We are all coming to realize that our civil society institutions may not be strong enough to protect the flawed but fundamentally solid democracy that we thought we had. We are witnessing the rise to power of a leader who does not care about norms. Since these norms were created to prevent political, social, economic, and cultural disasters, we do not need to wonder how this will end. It will end poorly.
[...[
Our system, to a large degree, relies on social sanction rather than laws to prevent powerful people from getting too far out of line. When our most powerful person is willing to ignore all of that, there is not much in place to stop him.
[...]
The press and the Congress are the only two institutions standing between a dangerous man and total power. They must both realize this is not the time to salute and grovel.
[...]
This is not going to be a free and fair exchange of ideas. This is going to be a fight. If you have not absorbed that fact yet, you are already losing.
This is only going to get worse.
posted by progosk at 10:48 AM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
We are all coming to realize that our civil society institutions may not be strong enough to protect the flawed but fundamentally solid democracy that we thought we had. We are witnessing the rise to power of a leader who does not care about norms. Since these norms were created to prevent political, social, economic, and cultural disasters, we do not need to wonder how this will end. It will end poorly.
[...[
Our system, to a large degree, relies on social sanction rather than laws to prevent powerful people from getting too far out of line. When our most powerful person is willing to ignore all of that, there is not much in place to stop him.
[...]
The press and the Congress are the only two institutions standing between a dangerous man and total power. They must both realize this is not the time to salute and grovel.
[...]
This is not going to be a free and fair exchange of ideas. This is going to be a fight. If you have not absorbed that fact yet, you are already losing.
This is only going to get worse.
posted by progosk at 10:48 AM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
Maybe Jon Voight is just going to get up on stage and do a bit in character as the evil poacher in Anaconda (which wouldn't actually be a whole lot different from his public persona these days).
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:40 PM
Nah. He'll just be himself, indistinguishable from his Mr. Sir role in Holes.
posted by yoga at 10:48 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:40 PM
Nah. He'll just be himself, indistinguishable from his Mr. Sir role in Holes.
posted by yoga at 10:48 AM on January 13, 2017
what tips Putin into full scale European invasion
Even if the US totally sat it out, remaining NATO forces are sufficient to defeat any credible Russian attack except in the Baltics.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Even if the US totally sat it out, remaining NATO forces are sufficient to defeat any credible Russian attack except in the Baltics.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:51 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
@brianklaas:
British betting house Ladbrokes is now offering nearly even odds (basically 50/50) that Trump won't finish his term. [image]
posted by chris24 at 10:55 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
British betting house Ladbrokes is now offering nearly even odds (basically 50/50) that Trump won't finish his term. [image]
posted by chris24 at 10:55 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe we can debate where the line is going to be, but there is going to be a line. And once they've gone up to that line then I can see overreach happening really easily.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Penthouse bullshit reveals a gap in the fabric society I did not know existed. This would "normally" have been a job for Hustler or Al Goldstein's Screw magazine.
posted by stonepharisee at 10:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 10:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
No shitting: “workers are currently going around the National Mall taping over the company name on each porta-potty: “Don’s Johns.”
(First license plate collectors, now toilets. Is my link quality slipping or just tilting further toward the absurd?)
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
(First license plate collectors, now toilets. Is my link quality slipping or just tilting further toward the absurd?)
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
tbh I think it's mostly about sanctions at this point more than military victory, removing the current sanctions and setting up governments that won't sanction Russia in the future, and it's not like there's a shortage of American business interests that would like to see those pulled back too: Tillerson and Page, obviously, but also there are quite a few people around Trump who had a stake in things like the Russian Direct Investment Fund.
Also, oil. Again, Tillerson and Page, but the NYC spy ring of Evgeny Buryakov, Igor Sporyshev, and Victor Podobnyy weren't just spying on the financial sector, they were also looking into US investments in alternative energy. On the oil front, it's about capitalizing on global warming, discouraging alternative energy investment, and smoothing the way for pipelines. And again, that's all right in the wheelhouse of the kinds of governments Putin's propping up.
I think the general disorganization of intelligence and alliances is more about giving Putin room for the option of saber rattling, making him look strong, and potential future military adventurism against low-hanging-fruit targets, and it's definitely a plus for Russia in general, but my gut feeling is that it's not about imminent military action against the west because it seems like Putin's in a better position looking strong than having to prove it in a chaotic, unpredictable fight that he likely can't win. He'll 100% take opportunities that he knows he can win but he's toast in Russia if he tries and fails, too many other people in power just waiting for him to slip.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also, oil. Again, Tillerson and Page, but the NYC spy ring of Evgeny Buryakov, Igor Sporyshev, and Victor Podobnyy weren't just spying on the financial sector, they were also looking into US investments in alternative energy. On the oil front, it's about capitalizing on global warming, discouraging alternative energy investment, and smoothing the way for pipelines. And again, that's all right in the wheelhouse of the kinds of governments Putin's propping up.
I think the general disorganization of intelligence and alliances is more about giving Putin room for the option of saber rattling, making him look strong, and potential future military adventurism against low-hanging-fruit targets, and it's definitely a plus for Russia in general, but my gut feeling is that it's not about imminent military action against the west because it seems like Putin's in a better position looking strong than having to prove it in a chaotic, unpredictable fight that he likely can't win. He'll 100% take opportunities that he knows he can win but he's toast in Russia if he tries and fails, too many other people in power just waiting for him to slip.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:58 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Trump's idea -- because he's an unstrategic impulse-driven asshole -- is just that he wants goodies to hand out ASAP. Ambassadors to desirable places especially are often donors, cronies, or other dipshits that (AFAIK which ain't much) the career staff on both sides have to work around.
I also think part of it is also do to his paranoia and his need feel like he control everyone and everything. He can't handle having people around that he doesn't trust to be absolutely loyal. Being appointed by anyone not him means automatic suspect. Couple this with him being on a ego driven power trip. I CAN GIVES SO MANY ORDERS I AM PRESIDENT and you get this sort of stupidity.
posted by Jalliah at 11:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I also think part of it is also do to his paranoia and his need feel like he control everyone and everything. He can't handle having people around that he doesn't trust to be absolutely loyal. Being appointed by anyone not him means automatic suspect. Couple this with him being on a ego driven power trip. I CAN GIVES SO MANY ORDERS I AM PRESIDENT and you get this sort of stupidity.
posted by Jalliah at 11:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is only going to get worse.
That's it, I'm going gun shopping this week.
posted by photoslob at 11:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's it, I'm going gun shopping this week.
posted by photoslob at 11:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
From a friend, regarding the DC National Guard thing: Watch this carefully. This is a highly experienced black military commander from DC being removed from his post immediately before a large protest. Trump is removing someone who would almost certainly de-escalate if the National Guard got called out on the protests, replacing him with an unknown quantity who will have less control over any troops who get called out and less experience handling protests (DC folks always have the most experience).
Folks who are going to these protests, get prepared."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
Folks who are going to these protests, get prepared."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:00 AM on January 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
That's it, I'm going gun shopping this week.
As someone pointed out upthread, if we liberals all went and did this, we might start to get some gun control support out of Congress and the NRA after all.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
As someone pointed out upthread, if we liberals all went and did this, we might start to get some gun control support out of Congress and the NRA after all.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump is removing someone who would almost certainly de-escalate if the National Guard got called out on the protests, replacing him with an unknown quantity who will have less control over any troops who get called out and less experience handling protests
Schwartz is being replaced by the Deputy Commanding General, the Adjutant General, or a Colonel on his staff who's been in place for more than a coupla years too. There's no chance a new CG gets confirmed by the Senate in the next four working days.
posted by Etrigan at 11:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Schwartz is being replaced by the Deputy Commanding General, the Adjutant General, or a Colonel on his staff who's been in place for more than a coupla years too. There's no chance a new CG gets confirmed by the Senate in the next four working days.
posted by Etrigan at 11:04 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
what if Comey/Obama/CIA had something on HRC that was so bad they had no choice but kneecap her.
Would have done that in February. And frankly, given how people are about going after her, I doubt they had anything that wasn't reported.
posted by asteria at 11:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Would have done that in February. And frankly, given how people are about going after her, I doubt they had anything that wasn't reported.
posted by asteria at 11:06 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
After stumbling around in the TINGLEVERSE early this morning
It's the TINKLEVERSE now.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:07 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Totes normal.
@KhaledAbuToameh:
President Abbas asks Putin to stop Trump from moving US embassy to Jerusalem.
@Yair_Rosenberg:
World leaders think the way to get Trump to do something is to talk to Putin—that the way to influence the US president is to talk to Russia
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [76 favorites]
@KhaledAbuToameh:
President Abbas asks Putin to stop Trump from moving US embassy to Jerusalem.
@Yair_Rosenberg:
World leaders think the way to get Trump to do something is to talk to Putin—that the way to influence the US president is to talk to Russia
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [76 favorites]
The whole "wet foot / dry foot" policy was fundamentally tied into our decades long feud with Castro's government. Cuban refugees got special status because Castro was just so terrible. If you're going to normalize relations with Cuba, it seems kind of inevitable that you will end up applying to Cuban immigrants to the same immigration rules as other to immigrants. I think this is just Obama tying up the loose ends on that normalization. If we continue treating Cuban immigrants differently, anti-Cuban forces will surely cite that as proof that we must consider the Cuban government to be uniquely bad, still, in which case we should also re-impose the embargoes...
Also remember that Cuban refugees are the one kind that the Republican party approves of because they have historically tended to be pretty hard right reactionaries since socialists don't flee socialism as often as individualists. Normalizing with Cuba takes away a Republican boogeyman and takes away some of the anti-Castro rhetorical power in Florida. I'll be interested to see how this plays out in the future.
posted by srboisvert at 11:20 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also remember that Cuban refugees are the one kind that the Republican party approves of because they have historically tended to be pretty hard right reactionaries since socialists don't flee socialism as often as individualists. Normalizing with Cuba takes away a Republican boogeyman and takes away some of the anti-Castro rhetorical power in Florida. I'll be interested to see how this plays out in the future.
posted by srboisvert at 11:20 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump meeting with Steve Harvey today, per Sean Spicer
Maybe Harvey is coming to let Trump know they read the election results wrong and he didn't really win.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe Harvey is coming to let Trump know they read the election results wrong and he didn't really win.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
OGE subtweeting Trump:
@OfficeGovEthics
All executive branch employees must refrain from misuse of position, including endorsements. See Dir Shaub's note [link to OGE statement; seems to be overloaded right now and not loading on my pc]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:22 AM on January 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
@OfficeGovEthics
All executive branch employees must refrain from misuse of position, including endorsements. See Dir Shaub's note [link to OGE statement; seems to be overloaded right now and not loading on my pc]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:22 AM on January 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
Maybe all countries except Russia should just skip to the end and, borrowing from The Mouse that Roared, surrender to Russia.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:25 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah everyone seems to have skipped over the stage where we're outraged about the President-elect endorsing private businesses. And not any private businesses, but ones owned by a major campaign contributor. I mean, but the Clinton Foundation, right?
There's a lot of stuff to be outraged about, and on my list, sales pitches rank lower than millions losing health care and immediate threats to civil rights, but, you know, it's still madness.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
There's a lot of stuff to be outraged about, and on my list, sales pitches rank lower than millions losing health care and immediate threats to civil rights, but, you know, it's still madness.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
That's it, I'm going gun shopping this week.
This is a spectacularly bad idea for a number of reasons.
First of all, unless you are a straight, white, cisgender (or can pass), Christian man, you have to realize that the Second Amendment itself, let alone carry laws and the like, must be assumed to no longer apply to you. For a lot of people, it never really has. But certainly in the last several years, we've seen that any group that doesn't reflect the dominant conservative type will be targeted and murdered while lawfully armed. As an armed protester, you will almost assuredly be considered a terrorist on sight by police forces.
Second, you may have seen a number of people telling you about how to arm yourselves, all the while pointing you towards the NRA and similar groups. DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY AFFILIATED IN ANY WAY WITH THE NRA OR ANY OTHER MAJOR GUN LOBBY GROUP. The current incarnation of the NRA is a hate group with a wildly bigoted leadership, and with a enormous membership that has thus far been either unwilling to even address this issue, or are just flat-out supportive of it. What's worse, the NRA, one of the most vocal opponents of registering guns, has in fact been compiling an incredibly detailed registry of gun owners themselves. You have to assume that anybody that supports the NRA, and that includes a lot of both individuals and businesses that sell guns, will report your personal information to them. I see zero indication that the NRA is anything but overjoyed at a Trump presidency, and I would not trust them to object in any way to Sessions or Kelly asking to have a peek. Actually, strike that: I'm almost 100% positive that they would be more than happy to hand over the information of any gun owner deemed a potential enemy of state to them. Don't believe me? Read that Buzzfeed article and see how it's already happened in several states.
Oh, and as a corollary to this, don't trust anybody that is supportive of the NRA after learning about the above, even a friend or family member, unless you can be 110% sure they will put your life above that of the 2nd Amendment. For a lot of people, I get the sense that the answer will be depressing. If you already have a firearm or are planning to get one soon, don't let anyone know on social media or discussion sites such as MetaFilter. Again, unless you're absolutely sure that they won't share your information (even accidentally) with the NRA et al, do not by any means let anyone know your firearm status.
Third, don't trust anyone who tries to reassure you that you can trust them with guns, least of all the people who tell you to trust them rather than letting you judge for yourself. You'll see a lot of these people around, both online in IRL (it's an argument I've seen pop up multiple times here), and there is absolutely zero reason to believe them, either statistically or on a case-by-case basis. If you can include people close to you as safe, well you do you, but by make them earn it. I repeat: do not trust any stranger, either online or IRL, who says that you can trust them with guns that does not immediately prove it to you. This one of the only common objects that is, from inception to creation to mass production, designed entirely to destroy something else. Even assuming they're actually there to help you, they're just as likely if not more to injure or kill you and/or another innocent person. You don't know them or their capabilities.
And as much as this may be obvious, stay far far away from "sovereign citizen," militia, and similar groups. These groups have already decided en masse that they will be tools of people like Trump rather than uphold their stated ideals. The 3-percenters, the Lost Cause/Confederate hagiographers, the Oathkeepers and their ilk, etc are not to be trusted at all. Almost all of them have deep roots in white supremacy, anti-LGBTQ sentiment, and other forms of bigotry.
Finally, you are undoubtedly outnumbered by the bigoted civilians with guns, most of whom won't stop law enforcement . Yes, yes, I know they say that the reason they have guns is to fight tyranny, but they keep on proving to us that this is one of their biggest hypocrisies while doing nothing to assure us they're anywhere close to changing. Assume that at best they will do nothing to help when you're the target, and that at worst they will gleefully join in. For proof you need look no further than the NRA's "enemies list" (which includes pretty much every single group dedicated to civil rights, international peace, and supporting the marginalized) and the many armed protests against Muslims, women's groups, and LGBTQ groups in the past several years. And that doesn't even get into the shootings at abortion clinics, civil rights protests, and other events/places that are regularly targeted by violent bigots.
Protest if you must, but arming yourself is more likely to put a target on you than protect you against either the Trump administration or his supporters.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
This is a spectacularly bad idea for a number of reasons.
First of all, unless you are a straight, white, cisgender (or can pass), Christian man, you have to realize that the Second Amendment itself, let alone carry laws and the like, must be assumed to no longer apply to you. For a lot of people, it never really has. But certainly in the last several years, we've seen that any group that doesn't reflect the dominant conservative type will be targeted and murdered while lawfully armed. As an armed protester, you will almost assuredly be considered a terrorist on sight by police forces.
Second, you may have seen a number of people telling you about how to arm yourselves, all the while pointing you towards the NRA and similar groups. DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY AFFILIATED IN ANY WAY WITH THE NRA OR ANY OTHER MAJOR GUN LOBBY GROUP. The current incarnation of the NRA is a hate group with a wildly bigoted leadership, and with a enormous membership that has thus far been either unwilling to even address this issue, or are just flat-out supportive of it. What's worse, the NRA, one of the most vocal opponents of registering guns, has in fact been compiling an incredibly detailed registry of gun owners themselves. You have to assume that anybody that supports the NRA, and that includes a lot of both individuals and businesses that sell guns, will report your personal information to them. I see zero indication that the NRA is anything but overjoyed at a Trump presidency, and I would not trust them to object in any way to Sessions or Kelly asking to have a peek. Actually, strike that: I'm almost 100% positive that they would be more than happy to hand over the information of any gun owner deemed a potential enemy of state to them. Don't believe me? Read that Buzzfeed article and see how it's already happened in several states.
Oh, and as a corollary to this, don't trust anybody that is supportive of the NRA after learning about the above, even a friend or family member, unless you can be 110% sure they will put your life above that of the 2nd Amendment. For a lot of people, I get the sense that the answer will be depressing. If you already have a firearm or are planning to get one soon, don't let anyone know on social media or discussion sites such as MetaFilter. Again, unless you're absolutely sure that they won't share your information (even accidentally) with the NRA et al, do not by any means let anyone know your firearm status.
Third, don't trust anyone who tries to reassure you that you can trust them with guns, least of all the people who tell you to trust them rather than letting you judge for yourself. You'll see a lot of these people around, both online in IRL (it's an argument I've seen pop up multiple times here), and there is absolutely zero reason to believe them, either statistically or on a case-by-case basis. If you can include people close to you as safe, well you do you, but by make them earn it. I repeat: do not trust any stranger, either online or IRL, who says that you can trust them with guns that does not immediately prove it to you. This one of the only common objects that is, from inception to creation to mass production, designed entirely to destroy something else. Even assuming they're actually there to help you, they're just as likely if not more to injure or kill you and/or another innocent person. You don't know them or their capabilities.
And as much as this may be obvious, stay far far away from "sovereign citizen," militia, and similar groups. These groups have already decided en masse that they will be tools of people like Trump rather than uphold their stated ideals. The 3-percenters, the Lost Cause/Confederate hagiographers, the Oathkeepers and their ilk, etc are not to be trusted at all. Almost all of them have deep roots in white supremacy, anti-LGBTQ sentiment, and other forms of bigotry.
Finally, you are undoubtedly outnumbered by the bigoted civilians with guns, most of whom won't stop law enforcement . Yes, yes, I know they say that the reason they have guns is to fight tyranny, but they keep on proving to us that this is one of their biggest hypocrisies while doing nothing to assure us they're anywhere close to changing. Assume that at best they will do nothing to help when you're the target, and that at worst they will gleefully join in. For proof you need look no further than the NRA's "enemies list" (which includes pretty much every single group dedicated to civil rights, international peace, and supporting the marginalized) and the many armed protests against Muslims, women's groups, and LGBTQ groups in the past several years. And that doesn't even get into the shootings at abortion clinics, civil rights protests, and other events/places that are regularly targeted by violent bigots.
Protest if you must, but arming yourself is more likely to put a target on you than protect you against either the Trump administration or his supporters.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:30 AM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
Vilsack leaving USDA early, no Trump replacement named: Vilsack, who has led USDA for eight years and was President Barack Obama's longest-serving Cabinet secretary, told employees in an email that Friday is his final day. The email did not say why he was leaving early.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
ou mean guns are not an automatic defense against tyranny? First the electoral college and now the 2nd amendment?
posted by Artw at 11:35 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:35 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Arming yourself given the current political situation is a good idea, but bringing a gun to a protest is a very very bad idea, and I would definitely not do it.
posted by corb at 11:35 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:35 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or perhaps they can rejoice and pretend that these gas leak years were just a fever dream plot that is generally ignored by people who care about keeping things canonical.
Every morning, I wake up, and even though my shower's not running, I go take a look inside anyways. And every morning Bobby Ewing isn't there and I'm sad.
posted by jackbishop at 11:36 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Every morning, I wake up, and even though my shower's not running, I go take a look inside anyways. And every morning Bobby Ewing isn't there and I'm sad.
posted by jackbishop at 11:36 AM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
When I read the story at first, I didn't Don's Johns with Donald. I thought Donald Trump looked at the portable toilets as a pun on Don Juan and considered it Mexican.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
roomthreeseventeen: The email did not say why he was leaving early.
Really, that has to be spelled out? High-level appointees often leave when there's a shift in parties in power, because they know if they leave on their own terms, they can better plan for their next job. In fact, he might already have one lined up. That's my guess, considering it's now January, more than 2 months since _rump won.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:39 AM on January 13, 2017
Really, that has to be spelled out? High-level appointees often leave when there's a shift in parties in power, because they know if they leave on their own terms, they can better plan for their next job. In fact, he might already have one lined up. That's my guess, considering it's now January, more than 2 months since _rump won.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:39 AM on January 13, 2017
So the lobby in Trump Tower is functioning for businesses and residences and stuff, right? And every now and then Trump and a crowd of secret service people spill out of an elevator for a press opportunity and it's just chaos.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:39 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:39 AM on January 13, 2017
Arming yourself given the current political situation is a good idea
No, it is not, for all the reasons I outlined above.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, it is not, for all the reasons I outlined above.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
'It’s Game of Thrones, the Apprentice, and Survivor all mixed into one'
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Behind closed doors, Chris Christie — unceremoniously sent packing from Donald Trump’s transition headquarters in Washington two months ago — is telegraphing a message to his confidants: I’ll be back...Oh Chris.
Christie turned down several offers to join the Trump administration when he was denied the attorney general post, but he has told associates he expects Trump to turn people like him — seasoned lawmakers and political hands — if and when the neophytes begin to flounder.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
This talk of guns reminds me I have been worried about right-wingnutjobs with their own personal arsenal showing up at next Saturday's marches.
(What. A. Country.)
On the positive side, thanks up above for info on the Concert for Amerca.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:41 AM on January 13, 2017
(What. A. Country.)
On the positive side, thanks up above for info on the Concert for Amerca.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:41 AM on January 13, 2017
corb: Arming yourself given the current political situation is a good idea
An eye for an eye would leave the world blind. A gun for a gun will see us all dead.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
An eye for an eye would leave the world blind. A gun for a gun will see us all dead.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:42 AM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Vilsack leaving USDA early, no Trump replacement named
Step on up, Ammon Bundy!
posted by Artw at 11:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Step on up, Ammon Bundy!
posted by Artw at 11:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Then there are those of us who only want to arm ourselves because all options for medical or palliative care in our later years (or sooner!) will be gone and a bullet to the head is preferable to dying slowly and in pain without care. Or bankrupting your family.
I have no illusions about the efficacy of a gun for protecting me from anything whatsoever. I'd never take it to a protest, if only because I'd worry about hitting my fellow protesters.
posted by emjaybee at 11:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have no illusions about the efficacy of a gun for protecting me from anything whatsoever. I'd never take it to a protest, if only because I'd worry about hitting my fellow protesters.
posted by emjaybee at 11:43 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you're going to normalize relations with Cuba, it seems kind of inevitable that you will end up applying to Cuban immigrants to the same immigration rules as other to immigrants.
The special family reunification provisions are staying in place -- where Cubans beneficiaries of family petitions can gain parole to travel to the US before a visa number becomes available -- and the standard asylum rules will apply.
posted by holgate at 11:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
The special family reunification provisions are staying in place -- where Cubans beneficiaries of family petitions can gain parole to travel to the US before a visa number becomes available -- and the standard asylum rules will apply.
posted by holgate at 11:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
cjelli: So it's not just that the lobby is functioning for business and residences -- which it is -- but it's also required to be 100% open to the public-at-large (a requirement which, incidentally, Trump has repeatedly violated and been fined for).
He might be treating those fines as operating expenses, assuming he has paid them.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
He might be treating those fines as operating expenses, assuming he has paid them.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, and before the usual huffing about the Holocaust happening because of gun control comes up, let me point out that Ben Carson and the wackjobs at the JPFO in no way represent Jewish Americans' thoughts on either gun control or the efficacy of loading up on the guns n'ammo when people like Trump take power. Not only is the idea that registries and gun control making Jews easier targets a load of unsupported BS (note the part about a Jewish German gun owner being framed for kicking off Kristallnacht), a lot of us consider the narrative of Jewish people being spectators to their own genocide to be straight-up anti-Semitic.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:53 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:53 AM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
My SO wanted to get a gun post Trump and I was like we already have more guns in the house than people. YOU FUCKING MANIAC
posted by angrycat at 11:54 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by angrycat at 11:54 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
You are really worrying me with your talk of buying guns, using guns to end your own lives, or even just capslocking in response to relatives buying guns.
I'm going to take a break from this thread now.
I regret anything that I said that may have escalated people's emotional state in a very trying time. Please don't any of you do anything you might regret.
posted by tel3path at 12:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm going to take a break from this thread now.
I regret anything that I said that may have escalated people's emotional state in a very trying time. Please don't any of you do anything you might regret.
posted by tel3path at 12:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Firstly, nobody should have a gun that hasn't taken training on it, both safety and accuracy. Secondly, don't have a gun unless you know you can pull the trigger when you point it at something. Thirdly, don't have guns in houses with kids unless you have a real gun safe. Last, but not least, if you aren't shooting regularly, you cannot trust yourself to shoot accurately, and probably shouldn't have a gun. Mostly, I think most people shouldn't have guns.
Re protests and guard commander being told to stand down. This makes me very nervous about the protests. We have moved into cloud cuckoo land and nothing is what it seems.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Re protests and guard commander being told to stand down. This makes me very nervous about the protests. We have moved into cloud cuckoo land and nothing is what it seems.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
MSNBC broadcast abruptly freezes and repeats the word ‘Russia, Russia, Russia’ over and over
posted by Room 641-A at 12:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 12:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
Everyone should make their own decisions about how bad they think this can get and how to keep themselves, their loved ones, and neighborhoods and people unlikely to be protected by police under a Trump admistration, safe. I understand mileage may vary. Personally, I worry a lot more about emboldened Nazis than riots in the capital, but everyone should make their own risk assessments.
posted by corb at 12:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 12:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Anybody considering arming themselves needs to think long and hard about the exact contexts and events they think being armed will be useful in. There are a lot of possible awful future timelines in which one might be less safe with a gun and there are some possible timelines in which one might be safer with one.
In the end it has to be a personal and highly deliberate decision based on an individual's circumstances and expectations. But do not arm yourself purely as a ritual to placate the gods of security.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
In the end it has to be a personal and highly deliberate decision based on an individual's circumstances and expectations. But do not arm yourself purely as a ritual to placate the gods of security.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Wait, we can't shop at LL Bean but we're gonna get more guns?
posted by armacy at 12:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by armacy at 12:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wait, we can't shop at LL Bean but we're gonna get more guns?
It's the Cabela's doctrine.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's the Cabela's doctrine.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
MSNBC broadcast abruptly freezes and repeats the word ‘Russia, Russia, Russia’ over and over
[fires up ham radio, tests it]
If it all goes wrong at 12:01pm on the 20th, you can find me on 14.275 MHz. Just bleep three times and ask for 'Dev'.
Carry on.
posted by Devonian at 12:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
[fires up ham radio, tests it]
If it all goes wrong at 12:01pm on the 20th, you can find me on 14.275 MHz. Just bleep three times and ask for 'Dev'.
Carry on.
posted by Devonian at 12:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
Kurt Eichenwald: Trump, Putin, and the Hidden History of How Russia Interfered in the U.S. Presidential Election
posted by monospace at 12:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by monospace at 12:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
MSNBC broadcast abruptly freezes and repeats the word ‘Russia, Russia, Russia’ over and over
Please, if you know anyone who watches MSNBC while stoned, check if they're OK
posted by theodolite at 12:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
Please, if you know anyone who watches MSNBC while stoned, check if they're OK
posted by theodolite at 12:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
The Transfer, a cartoon by Clay Bennett of the Chatanooga Times Free Press
posted by numaner at 12:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by numaner at 12:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
The toilet war is on: Don's Johns COO says they've sent someone to take tape down, "We like to have our names on our units."
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on January 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on January 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
Comrades, please settle down, this is fine.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It is a little alarming how many formerly-liberal people I know have mentioned purchasing guns in the last couple months. This isn't a zombie apocalypse or a western, y'all.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 12:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comrades, please settle down, this is fine.
it's not like a Valor to "settle down"
posted by numaner at 12:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
it's not like a Valor to "settle down"
posted by numaner at 12:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
There were a lot of toilets, do they want volunteers to help undo something Trump's team presumably ordered?
posted by Slackermagee at 12:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Slackermagee at 12:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Это хорошо.
posted by mazola at 12:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mazola at 12:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
well, if you don't trust the government to protect you, just who is going to protect you?
do you really want to live in a country where only your political opponents are armed?
as for myself, i'm not running to the gun shop, as i don't think it is necessary - but people have to decide for themselves what their risk level and their situation really is - i don't think it's unfair to point out that zombieflanders can't do that for you and zombieflanders isn't gong to be protecting you if the crap goes down
i do agree that the NRA and other such groups are not to be trusted
i don't agree that the 3% ers and miltia types are in trump's back pocket - i think they've got a wait and see attitude - and i think that trump is likely to do things that will piss them right off and he's going to have a mess on his hands
but above all, i don't agree with the idea that only conservatives should be armed - that is just asking for trouble
the problem being is that they already believe that liberals aren't willing to fight
posted by pyramid termite at 12:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
do you really want to live in a country where only your political opponents are armed?
as for myself, i'm not running to the gun shop, as i don't think it is necessary - but people have to decide for themselves what their risk level and their situation really is - i don't think it's unfair to point out that zombieflanders can't do that for you and zombieflanders isn't gong to be protecting you if the crap goes down
i do agree that the NRA and other such groups are not to be trusted
i don't agree that the 3% ers and miltia types are in trump's back pocket - i think they've got a wait and see attitude - and i think that trump is likely to do things that will piss them right off and he's going to have a mess on his hands
but above all, i don't agree with the idea that only conservatives should be armed - that is just asking for trouble
the problem being is that they already believe that liberals aren't willing to fight
posted by pyramid termite at 12:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
MSNBC broadcast abruptly freezes and repeats the word ‘Russia, Russia, Russia’ over and over
Please, if you know anyone who watches MSNBC while stoned, check if they're OK
I'm fine
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
Please, if you know anyone who watches MSNBC while stoned, check if they're OK
I'm fine
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
The toilet war is on: Don's Johns COO says they've sent someone to take tape down, "We like to have our names on our units."
You know with all of the horrifying crazy stuff going down right now I so appreciate this. I am now in love with a porta potty company. This makes me so happy because it's so utterly ridiculous that a President should give a shit about something like this.
You go Don's Johns.
posted by Jalliah at 12:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
> If it all goes wrong at 12:01pm on the 20th, you can find me on 14.275 MHz.
Way to get 14.275 jammed.
posted by Westringia F. at 12:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Way to get 14.275 jammed.
posted by Westringia F. at 12:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Re: guns
Do whatever you feel you need to, but if you're coming to DC for the protests, remember that DC has the strictest handgun laws in the US, and carrying a gun into DC is a spectacularly bad idea.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Do whatever you feel you need to, but if you're coming to DC for the protests, remember that DC has the strictest handgun laws in the US, and carrying a gun into DC is a spectacularly bad idea.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's it, I'm going gun shopping this week.
Happy MLK day!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Happy MLK day!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Since I'm going to a protest, I'm going to kindly ask my fellow protesters not to bring guns. For any goddamn reason. Thanks.
posted by lydhre at 12:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
"You go Don's Johns."
I see what you did there.
posted by monospace at 12:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by monospace at 12:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
mazola: Это хорошо.
I know that it means This is good, like the "This is fine" dog cartoon -- but I like that хорошо alllllmost sounds like "horror show," too.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I know that it means This is good, like the "This is fine" dog cartoon -- but I like that хорошо alllllmost sounds like "horror show," too.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Y'all maybe take a break from and de-escalate/de-personalize this "guns: yes or no" thing please.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Don's Johns: Home of the 10 Station – DJ5000LX Luxury Presidential Restroom Trailer
posted by box at 12:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 12:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
i do agree that taking guns to a protest is not a good idea
posted by pyramid termite at 12:34 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by pyramid termite at 12:34 PM on January 13, 2017
House PASSES budget resolution to allow for a repeal of Obamacare with a simple majority. Vote was 227-198.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:35 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:35 PM on January 13, 2017
I see what you did there.
And yet I didn't see until now.
Yep, now I have potty brain giggles.
posted by Jalliah at 12:37 PM on January 13, 2017
And yet I didn't see until now.
Yep, now I have potty brain giggles.
posted by Jalliah at 12:37 PM on January 13, 2017
The Spy Who Wrote the Trump-Russia Memos: It Was "Hair-Raising" Stuff
"This was something of huge significance, way above party politics," the former spy told me. "I think [Trump's] own party should be aware of this stuff as well." He noted that he believed Russian intelligence's efforts aimed at Trump were part of Vladimir Putin's campaign to "disrupt and divide and discredit the system in Western democracies."
After speaking with the former counterintelligence official, I was able to confirm his identity and expertise. A senior US administration official told me that he had worked with the onetime spook and that the former spy had an established and respected track record of providing US government agencies with accurate and valuable information about sensitive national security matters. "He is a credible source who has provided information to the US government for a long time, which senior officials have found to be highly credible," this US official said.
posted by futz at 12:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
"This was something of huge significance, way above party politics," the former spy told me. "I think [Trump's] own party should be aware of this stuff as well." He noted that he believed Russian intelligence's efforts aimed at Trump were part of Vladimir Putin's campaign to "disrupt and divide and discredit the system in Western democracies."
After speaking with the former counterintelligence official, I was able to confirm his identity and expertise. A senior US administration official told me that he had worked with the onetime spook and that the former spy had an established and respected track record of providing US government agencies with accurate and valuable information about sensitive national security matters. "He is a credible source who has provided information to the US government for a long time, which senior officials have found to be highly credible," this US official said.
posted by futz at 12:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
it's not like a Valor to "settle down"
SOMEBODY wants a new thread, uh huh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
SOMEBODY wants a new thread, uh huh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I really wanted to place some bets on Trump not making it through his term, etc. but they aren't even giving anything like tempting odds on that stuff. PaddyPower is only giving 20 to 1 he won't be inaugurated which is only a week away. Splitting with Melania in 2017 is only 16 to 1.
posted by bongo_x at 12:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 12:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
That Eichenwald piece is... wow. It's just chaos all around.
posted by vibrotronica at 12:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by vibrotronica at 12:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rex Tillerson Basically Promised the Senate That He Would Start a War With China
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
This isn't a zombie apocalypse or a western, y'all.
No we all agreed this was a bad John LeCarre novel. With a dash of Phillip K. Dick.
posted by emjaybee at 12:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
No we all agreed this was a bad John LeCarre novel. With a dash of Phillip K. Dick.
posted by emjaybee at 12:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
I really wanted to place some bets on Trump not making it through his term, etc. but they aren't even giving anything like tempting odds on that stuff. PaddyPower is only giving 20 to 1 he won't be inaugurated which is only a week away. Splitting with Melania in 2017 is only 16 to 1.
What are the odds that Trump's hair get's it's own cabinet position?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
What are the odds that Trump's hair get's it's own cabinet position?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
i don't agree with the idea that only conservatives should be armed
Nor do I. But (and I write this as someone who grew up with/owned guns and has gradually divested myself of them) part of what bothers me about it is that it's not that big a jump from the ill-considered prepper-meets-videogame machismo that inspires George Zimmerman types.
Most of the people I've heard this from have never shot a gun in their lives, and I'm not feeling any safer if it's a bunch of liberal bros running out to the nearest Dick's Sporting Goods to buy a shotgun, when what I'm mostly worried about re getting shot is: a. Cops; and b. some non-cop jackass who doesn't have proper respect for a firearm spraying bullets around.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nor do I. But (and I write this as someone who grew up with/owned guns and has gradually divested myself of them) part of what bothers me about it is that it's not that big a jump from the ill-considered prepper-meets-videogame machismo that inspires George Zimmerman types.
Most of the people I've heard this from have never shot a gun in their lives, and I'm not feeling any safer if it's a bunch of liberal bros running out to the nearest Dick's Sporting Goods to buy a shotgun, when what I'm mostly worried about re getting shot is: a. Cops; and b. some non-cop jackass who doesn't have proper respect for a firearm spraying bullets around.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
John Lewis: ‘I Don’t See Trump as a Legitimate President’ (& isn't going to the inauguration)
Dem Rep. Brad Sherman has sent a letter to Loretta Lynch requesting the appointment of a Special Counsel on Russia's election interference [tweet w/ letter img]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:48 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Dem Rep. Brad Sherman has sent a letter to Loretta Lynch requesting the appointment of a Special Counsel on Russia's election interference [tweet w/ letter img]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:48 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Politico: Trump's inauguration to shatter Washington norms.
Also, the Inauguration Committee is hosting only three balls, a departure from the usual eight to 10, with a president who doesn't necessarily enjoy schmoozing and small talk.posted by ZeusHumms at 12:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I will be eagerly devouring any history of this transition that explains in what parts Obama is right now like[...]
Maybe the strategy is steadily increasing public and private pressure on Trump to resign prior to the inauguration? I am still quite disoriented by the whole thing.
posted by Coventry at 12:52 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe the strategy is steadily increasing public and private pressure on Trump to resign prior to the inauguration? I am still quite disoriented by the whole thing.
posted by Coventry at 12:52 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Statement from LL Bean (facebook)
posted by lazaruslong at 12:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 12:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald ... has only got three balls...
posted by uncleozzy at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Rex Tillerson Basically Promised the Senate That He Would Start a War With China
Yeah, this is the sort of think that makes my suicidal ideation giddy with delight. Every time I read stuff like this my brain goes "hurray, won't have to kill yourself - Trump and China will do it for you!" Then I remember there's like, children and dog and cats that really don't deserve to be reduced to shadows on walls.
I've really gone into "planning for the end of my life" mode this last month. I'm not planning suicide, I just feel like time is very limited for all of us right now. I don't know if its the rational part of my brain or the irrational part that keeps trying to reassuringly say "but somebody sane will stop him." There's no evidence that anyone has the will to prevent this and every indication that we'd still be making horrific stupid choices under a President Pence.
No, its preventable disease, pointless war, starvation, curb-stomping for brownshirts and eventually Armageddon for all of us.
Paraphrasing Peter Cook from "Beyond the Fridge," "I'll end this on a note of hope. I hope this will not happen."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, this is the sort of think that makes my suicidal ideation giddy with delight. Every time I read stuff like this my brain goes "hurray, won't have to kill yourself - Trump and China will do it for you!" Then I remember there's like, children and dog and cats that really don't deserve to be reduced to shadows on walls.
I've really gone into "planning for the end of my life" mode this last month. I'm not planning suicide, I just feel like time is very limited for all of us right now. I don't know if its the rational part of my brain or the irrational part that keeps trying to reassuringly say "but somebody sane will stop him." There's no evidence that anyone has the will to prevent this and every indication that we'd still be making horrific stupid choices under a President Pence.
No, its preventable disease, pointless war, starvation, curb-stomping for brownshirts and eventually Armageddon for all of us.
Paraphrasing Peter Cook from "Beyond the Fridge," "I'll end this on a note of hope. I hope this will not happen."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Guys please read the Eichenwald article from upthread, it is horrifying. Some excerpts:
"While there was widespread agreement among Western European and American intelligence agencies about the Russian effort—it was the British who first alerted the United States to its scope—there remain subtle disagreements regarding its intent. Over many weeks of debate, American intelligence agencies concluded that the campaign, which they believe was authorized by Putin, was intended to help Trump become president. Some Western European intelligence officials instead believe the Kremlin’s efforts were motivated not to support Trump, but to hurt Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. Some of these overseas agencies also believe the effort was not set in motion by Putin, but received his support once underway. During Clinton’s time as secretary of state, Putin publicly accused her of interfering in Moscow’s affairs. For example, her statement that Russian parliamentary elections in December 2011 were “neither free nor fair” infuriated him.
The hacking campaign, according to this analysis, was designed to split the Democratic Party so that as president, Clinton would have to spend enormous amounts of time dealing with domestic discord driven by Republicans and progressives tricked into believing that the Democratic National Committee had rigged her nomination. For example, as part of the campaign, Russian hackers obtained emails from the DNC that were then sliced into small bits and put out on the internet through participants in the propaganda effort. In many of these instances, the real documents were misrepresented. For example, WikiLeaks released a number of May 2016 emails on the eve of the Democratic convention that made it appear as if the DNC was solely pulling for Clinton; in many online postings, the date was removed so readers would have no idea unless they searched for the original document that was written at a time when Sanders could not possibly have won the nomination.
Either way, some Western European intelligence agencies have concluded, Putin’s larger goal is to damage NATO so the allied nations would be less likely to interfere in Russia’s domestic affairs and less capable of responding to the Kremlin’s military campaigns or cyberattacks on neighboring nations.
...
The Russian penetration in the United States is far more extensive than has been revealed publicly, although most of it has been targeted either at government departments or nongovernment organizations connected to the Democratic Party. Russian hackers penetrated the White House, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the State Department. They also struck at organizations with looser ties to the Democratic Party, including think tanks such as the Brookings Institution, where some of Clinton’s longtime friends and colleagues work, as well as some organizations connected to the Republican National Committee.
...
Officials in Western Europe say they are so dismayed, they now feel compelled to gather intelligence on a man who is set to become the next president of the United States. According to a Western intelligence source, at least one allied nation is currently conducting intelligence operations in the United States, collecting details on officials surrounding Trump and executives in his company, the Trump Organization; the source, who works in government, expressed disbelief that such an effort had been deemed essential."
posted by supercrayon at 12:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [75 favorites]
"While there was widespread agreement among Western European and American intelligence agencies about the Russian effort—it was the British who first alerted the United States to its scope—there remain subtle disagreements regarding its intent. Over many weeks of debate, American intelligence agencies concluded that the campaign, which they believe was authorized by Putin, was intended to help Trump become president. Some Western European intelligence officials instead believe the Kremlin’s efforts were motivated not to support Trump, but to hurt Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. Some of these overseas agencies also believe the effort was not set in motion by Putin, but received his support once underway. During Clinton’s time as secretary of state, Putin publicly accused her of interfering in Moscow’s affairs. For example, her statement that Russian parliamentary elections in December 2011 were “neither free nor fair” infuriated him.
The hacking campaign, according to this analysis, was designed to split the Democratic Party so that as president, Clinton would have to spend enormous amounts of time dealing with domestic discord driven by Republicans and progressives tricked into believing that the Democratic National Committee had rigged her nomination. For example, as part of the campaign, Russian hackers obtained emails from the DNC that were then sliced into small bits and put out on the internet through participants in the propaganda effort. In many of these instances, the real documents were misrepresented. For example, WikiLeaks released a number of May 2016 emails on the eve of the Democratic convention that made it appear as if the DNC was solely pulling for Clinton; in many online postings, the date was removed so readers would have no idea unless they searched for the original document that was written at a time when Sanders could not possibly have won the nomination.
Either way, some Western European intelligence agencies have concluded, Putin’s larger goal is to damage NATO so the allied nations would be less likely to interfere in Russia’s domestic affairs and less capable of responding to the Kremlin’s military campaigns or cyberattacks on neighboring nations.
...
The Russian penetration in the United States is far more extensive than has been revealed publicly, although most of it has been targeted either at government departments or nongovernment organizations connected to the Democratic Party. Russian hackers penetrated the White House, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the State Department. They also struck at organizations with looser ties to the Democratic Party, including think tanks such as the Brookings Institution, where some of Clinton’s longtime friends and colleagues work, as well as some organizations connected to the Republican National Committee.
...
Officials in Western Europe say they are so dismayed, they now feel compelled to gather intelligence on a man who is set to become the next president of the United States. According to a Western intelligence source, at least one allied nation is currently conducting intelligence operations in the United States, collecting details on officials surrounding Trump and executives in his company, the Trump Organization; the source, who works in government, expressed disbelief that such an effort had been deemed essential."
posted by supercrayon at 12:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [75 favorites]
Most of the people I've heard this from have never shot a gun in their lives
Yeah, that was me for about ten minutes. I figured learning to distance shoot seemed like an interesting if pricey thing to do even in the 99\% chance there are no brownshirts and I could stand to teach myself to get into a calm-but-focused headspace. Then I learned that it's less "pricey" and more "breathtakingly and continuously expensive" so nope.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that was me for about ten minutes. I figured learning to distance shoot seemed like an interesting if pricey thing to do even in the 99\% chance there are no brownshirts and I could stand to teach myself to get into a calm-but-focused headspace. Then I learned that it's less "pricey" and more "breathtakingly and continuously expensive" so nope.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did any Democrats vote for the repeal?
posted by prefpara at 1:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by prefpara at 1:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
JUST IN: Entertainer Steve Harvey says he will team up with Housing Secretary-designate Ben Carson on inner city initiative
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:06 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:06 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Angering Congress, James Comey won't address Trump-Russia inquiry privately
posted by Artw at 1:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Did any Democrats vote for the repeal?
No, though five of them didn't vote.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:11 PM on January 13, 2017
No, though five of them didn't vote.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:11 PM on January 13, 2017
has someone made the joke that Ben Carson was nominated for Secretary of Housing and Urban development by donny because the agency has "Urban" in the name and Carson is black?
anyways. that.
posted by numaner at 1:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
anyways. that.
posted by numaner at 1:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
If your congressperson voted against the resolution, please call and thank them. We want them to know when we're happy as well as when we're hopping mad.
posted by winna at 1:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by winna at 1:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
has someone made the joke that Ben Carson was nominated for Secretary of Housing and Urban development by donny because the agency has "Urban" in the name and Carson is black?
people noticed that, yeah
posted by thelonius at 1:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
people noticed that, yeah
posted by thelonius at 1:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Entertainer Steve Harvey says he will team up with Housing Secretary-designate Ben Carson on inner city initiative
That's probably at least one good idea going on now, as Carson clearly needs a babysitter and Steve Harvey is alright.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's probably at least one good idea going on now, as Carson clearly needs a babysitter and Steve Harvey is alright.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aside from the fact that Steve Harvey just made gross comments about Asian men, and is thunderingly sexist, there's the trifling fact that he has no fucking idea about anything to do with housing or development. So I guess - perfect fit for this administration?
posted by supercrayon at 1:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 1:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
Steve Harvey is alright.
He's really not.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
He's really not.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
I gotta say, my Make America Kittens Again Chrome extension is making this Newsweek article much more entertaining.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:17 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:17 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Music Donald Trump Can't Hear
And so the inability, so far, of Donald Trump to get any significant musicians from any of those traditions, rock or country or blues or Broadway, to sing at his Inauguration is not a small comic detail but a significant reflection of this moment in history. It reminds us of just how aberrant Trump and Trumpism is. When the Rockettes have to be coerced to appear at your show—or you’re left to boast of the military bands, directly under your orders, who are playing—one is witnessing not just some snobbish hostility on the part of “Hollywood” entertainers but a deeper abyss between the man about to assume power and the shared traditions of the country he represents. There is no music in this man.posted by theodolite at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
Steve Harvey is alright.
Maybe as a babysitter though. Like, someone who sits and watches babies.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017
Maybe as a babysitter though. Like, someone who sits and watches babies.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017
Oh hey everyone Steve Harvey is a child abuser, too.
Are we great again yet? I'm feeling pretty great.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Are we great again yet? I'm feeling pretty great.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Here's the Roll Call for the House ACA vote; the nonvoting reps were:
Cleaver - D
Clyburn - D
Frankel (FL) - D
Green, Gene - D
Mulvaney - R
Pompeo - R
Price, Tom (GA) - R
Rush - D
Rutherford - R
Zinke - R
posted by melissasaurus at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cleaver - D
Clyburn - D
Frankel (FL) - D
Green, Gene - D
Mulvaney - R
Pompeo - R
Price, Tom (GA) - R
Rush - D
Rutherford - R
Zinke - R
posted by melissasaurus at 1:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Steve Harvey is a grade A jackass.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lazaruslong at 1:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Steve Harvey is a fucking TV personality, but I suppose as long as our President is one, too, we might as well just go all in. Have we found a job for Judge Judy yet?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:24 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:24 PM on January 13, 2017
Don't diss Judy like that.
posted by Bookhouse at 1:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Bookhouse at 1:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's still a SCOTUS spot that needs fillin'!
posted by asteria at 1:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by asteria at 1:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
We could def use Judge Judy in these dark times. "Don't piss on my leg Donald and tell me it's raining."
posted by supercrayon at 1:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 1:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Justice Judy! Dear lord. I can only hope.
posted by samthemander at 1:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 1:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Statement from LL Bean (facebook)
posted by lazaruslong at 3:53 PM on January 13 [2 favorites +] [!]
That statement is from January 8th, approximately a lifetime ago.
posted by anastasiav at 1:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 3:53 PM on January 13 [2 favorites +] [!]
That statement is from January 8th, approximately a lifetime ago.
posted by anastasiav at 1:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Steve Harvey is a grade A jackass.
Just a jackass is kind of a step up these days.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just a jackass is kind of a step up these days.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
soren_lorensen: I gotta say, my Make America Kittens Again Chrome extension is making this Newsweek article much more entertaining.
That extension has provided some of the few spots of amusement I've enjoyed these past couple of weeks.
posted by Superplin at 1:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
That extension has provided some of the few spots of amusement I've enjoyed these past couple of weeks.
posted by Superplin at 1:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
In fact, Steve Harvey, unprompted, brought up (indirectly) his mocking of Asians when he spoke to the press after his meeting.
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on January 13, 2017
And if you're an atheist, he thinks your an idiot. Because there are still monkeys around.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:37 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lazaruslong at 1:37 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll take Justice Judy over Justice Jeanine, whom I put at about 3-1 odds of being nominated when a second opening occurs.
Also, I am not going to buy a gun. I am not comfortable with guns at all and do not want them around me. I am, however, going to buy one of these and carry it on my belt at all times. It provides something to jab at anyone who hassles me with, it has a nice sturdy grip, and it provides plausible deniability in that if someone accuses me of being armed I can shout I HAVE EIGHT POUNDS OF PORK SHOULDER IN MY FRIDGE BUDDY.
posted by delfin at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, I am not going to buy a gun. I am not comfortable with guns at all and do not want them around me. I am, however, going to buy one of these and carry it on my belt at all times. It provides something to jab at anyone who hassles me with, it has a nice sturdy grip, and it provides plausible deniability in that if someone accuses me of being armed I can shout I HAVE EIGHT POUNDS OF PORK SHOULDER IN MY FRIDGE BUDDY.
posted by delfin at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Carson or the new jackass? Do the monkeys live in the pyramids?
posted by Artw at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Artw at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2017
John Lewis: ‘I Don’t See Trump as a Legitimate President’ (& isn't going to the inauguration)
Don't tell, show. Start demanding to see made-up forms of birth certificate documentation!
posted by indubitable at 1:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't tell, show. Start demanding to see made-up forms of birth certificate documentation!
posted by indubitable at 1:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would also like to point out that this might be 3 Doors Down's one chance to do something relevant with their life. They should get on stage, sing half of one song, and then tell the orange fuhrer to go hell and peace out.
What a way to resurrect a career!
posted by lydhre at 1:49 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
What a way to resurrect a career!
posted by lydhre at 1:49 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
I thought half of one song pretty much was their career.
posted by delfin at 1:50 PM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by delfin at 1:50 PM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
So. Steele, Mr. MI6 Dossier Compiler, says, emphatically, that he was frantically shoveling Trump/Russia information at the FBI since the middle of last year. Instead of investigating, FBI Director Comey decides to kneecap Hillary. Now, Comey refuses to say if there's still an active investigation. What are the possibilities?
1) Comey's setting himself up as Hoover, a kingmaker with kompromat on everybody. Trump serves at Comey's pleasure, not the other way around.
2) Comey and/or other FBI higher ups are in league with the Russians and Trump.
3) Comey knows he fucked up royally, knows that Trump will be coming for him, and he is playing it super close to the vest until it's time to strike.
4) All is chaos, nothing means anything.
posted by vibrotronica at 1:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
1) Comey's setting himself up as Hoover, a kingmaker with kompromat on everybody. Trump serves at Comey's pleasure, not the other way around.
2) Comey and/or other FBI higher ups are in league with the Russians and Trump.
3) Comey knows he fucked up royally, knows that Trump will be coming for him, and he is playing it super close to the vest until it's time to strike.
4) All is chaos, nothing means anything.
posted by vibrotronica at 1:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
Part of me was confused thinking 'didn't they already do that at the RNC' but turns out that was 3rd Eye Blind.
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo is reporting that the Dec 28 phone call was Russia inviting Flynn to Syria peace talks. We also found out that we would be attending the talks from Erdogan's spokesperson.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I remember hearing in the past "Steve Harvey did X racist/sexist/homophobic thing" but mostly I just never thought he was remotely funny or appealing or even someone you'd even want to talk to so in other words he is exactly the kind of person DT would pick.
(Also they should have buried Family Feud with Dawson. But I digress).
posted by emjaybee at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Also they should have buried Family Feud with Dawson. But I digress).
posted by emjaybee at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh jeez, I'm sorry about the gun derail.
To make up for it I just called my congressman to thank him for voting NO to repeal the ACA.
posted by photoslob at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
To make up for it I just called my congressman to thank him for voting NO to repeal the ACA.
posted by photoslob at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Eichenwald is a little frustrating for me. I once cited him in an argument with a conservative about Hillary's emails only to have him retract his statement later. So I'm a little gun shy about sharing his stuff. It's not that I think he's lying or even necessarily wrong about anything, it's just that he seems to publish without checking and double checking first. In this case, he's citing anonymous sources and I doubt he has any way to verify what they're saying.
But this part would explain a lot:
About that time, “buyer’s remorse” had set in at the Kremlin, according to a report obtained by Western counterintelligence. Russia came to see Trump as too unpredictable and feared that, should he win, the Kremlin would not be able to rely on him or even anticipate his actions.
The Russians tried to turn Trump into an asset, but they didn't reckon on how stupid and unstable he is. AAAANNND, here we are.
Imagine if they'd blackmailed someone competent? Someone who knew how to deny things a little more convincingly? (Mike Pence?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:59 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
But this part would explain a lot:
About that time, “buyer’s remorse” had set in at the Kremlin, according to a report obtained by Western counterintelligence. Russia came to see Trump as too unpredictable and feared that, should he win, the Kremlin would not be able to rely on him or even anticipate his actions.
The Russians tried to turn Trump into an asset, but they didn't reckon on how stupid and unstable he is. AAAANNND, here we are.
Imagine if they'd blackmailed someone competent? Someone who knew how to deny things a little more convincingly? (Mike Pence?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:59 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe Trump isn't the first blackmailed leader. Just the first one to screw the pooch so thoroughly.
posted by ian1977 at 2:01 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:01 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
maybe trump is the first leader who ISN'T blackmailed
posted by beerperson at 2:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 2:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I still don't know why the Republican leadership hasn't cozied up to Mike Pence and decided together to take Donnie down. Sure, the Republicans love power, and they figure they can roll their agenda out through Trump, but they'd have a much, much easier time dealing with Pence, who is a horrible human being and would probably be an incompetent administrator but in exactly the ways they have cultivated an ability to deal with. Trump is dirty and unreliable and disruptive and they don't actually like him that much, whereas Pence is (AFAICT) scandalous only in ways that would gain no traction with their constituency, and apparently a complete Party man.
posted by jackbishop at 2:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 2:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Maybe having his pee-fetish out in the open means he CAN'T be blackmailed now. Downside: still an asshole, still loves Putin, still surrounded by Nazis and Russian assets.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on January 13, 2017
More helpful advice for the Trump era: The Life-Changing Magic of Decluttering in a Post-Apocalyptic World (New Yorker)
posted by bibliowench at 2:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 2:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Historically speaking, the praetorian guard has been key at choosing shitty emperors. And who is responsible for the Secret Service?
posted by corb at 2:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 2:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Rude Pundit: Donald Trump Is a Liar and You're a Chump If You Listen to Him
Republicans Won't Save Your Life
Where the Fuck Are You, Democrats?
posted by homunculus at 2:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
Republicans Won't Save Your Life
Where the Fuck Are You, Democrats?
posted by homunculus at 2:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
And who is responsible for the Secret Service?
Logically it would be the Silent Service, so... submariners?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Logically it would be the Silent Service, so... submariners?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Historically speaking, the praetorian guard has been key at choosing shitty emperors. And who is responsible for the Secret Service?
posted by corb
hey, Claudius was pretty good
posted by the phlegmatic king at 2:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by corb
hey, Claudius was pretty good
posted by the phlegmatic king at 2:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe having his pee-fetish out in the open means he CAN'T be blackmailed now.
Judging from the coversations I overhear from the old bitties in their coffee klatschen, they'd just say "Well, JFK asked Marilyn to pee on his face too..."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Judging from the coversations I overhear from the old bitties in their coffee klatschen, they'd just say "Well, JFK asked Marilyn to pee on his face too..."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Historically speaking, the praetorian guard has been key at choosing shitty emperors. And who is responsible for the Secret Service?
I feel like this is a setup for a Trump Appoints His Horse To The Priesthood joke
posted by beerperson at 2:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like this is a setup for a Trump Appoints His Horse To The Priesthood joke
posted by beerperson at 2:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
> BREAKING: Obama admin permits NSA to give raw (unminimized to protect privacy)12333 surveillance to FBI/CIA/DEA/etc
This is terrible. It's hard to overstate how bad even. Instead of curtailing the surveillance state before Trump takes over, Obama just expanded it to allow every racist or power hungry local police department unfiltered access to raw NSA signals data.
Obama's Parting Blow Against Privacy: The NSA is relaxing its privacy rules, allowing more information on the private communications of Americans to be sent to 15 different intelligence agencies.
posted by homunculus at 2:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is terrible. It's hard to overstate how bad even. Instead of curtailing the surveillance state before Trump takes over, Obama just expanded it to allow every racist or power hungry local police department unfiltered access to raw NSA signals data.
Obama's Parting Blow Against Privacy: The NSA is relaxing its privacy rules, allowing more information on the private communications of Americans to be sent to 15 different intelligence agencies.
posted by homunculus at 2:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
MSNBC broadcast abruptly freezes and repeats the word ‘Russia, Russia, Russia’ over and over
Ooh, I know this one! What is Max Headroom?
Also, the Inauguration Committee is hosting only three balls, a departure from the usual eight to 10, with a president who doesn't necessarily enjoy schmoozing and small talk.
Trump has less balls than Obama. No surprise there.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'd like to see the anti-Trump resistance within the intelligence services pull something like this: bundle up a bunch of fake intel that Trump would absolutely jump on, like fake but plausible and tantalizing dirt on his enemies. Feed the raw intel to the Russians in bits and pieces through multiple channels in ways that make them think they found it on their own. Simultaneously, put this fake intelligence and a description of the methods you used to feed it to Russian channels in an encrypted archive that's out there on the internet for anyone to grab, like a Wikileaks insurance file, and get that file out there far and wide through a cutout like a new (fake) leaks org similar to Wikileaks or even through something innocuous like an ARG. When Trump or his associates receive this fake intelligence through Russia and start promoting it to go after enemies, release the key to the encrypted archive so everyone can see what happened.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The first week of confirmation hearings, recapped
Meanwhile, the potential defense secretary, retired General James “Mad Dog” Mattis, described a temperate and restrained approach to the world that confused everyone very much. Several senators asked him about the remarks of the president under whom he would be serving, perhaps trying to break as gently as possible to him the news that this was actually Trump, but he continued unfazed. Probably as I type this a messenger has arrived at Trump Tower panting and shouting, “MR. TRUMP, MR. TRUMP, WE THINK THE NICKNAME ‘MAD DOG’ WAS SARCASTIC! LIKE WHEN YOU CALL A TALL GUY SHORTY!” but it is too late to stop it now: There might, in spite of Trump’s best efforts, be a Sane Dog in the Trump administration. (Also, he used the word “atavistic,” and it impressed Sen. Ted Cruz very much.)
My poor iPad is hoping for a new thread soon, bless everybody and praise be and thanks
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Meanwhile, the potential defense secretary, retired General James “Mad Dog” Mattis, described a temperate and restrained approach to the world that confused everyone very much. Several senators asked him about the remarks of the president under whom he would be serving, perhaps trying to break as gently as possible to him the news that this was actually Trump, but he continued unfazed. Probably as I type this a messenger has arrived at Trump Tower panting and shouting, “MR. TRUMP, MR. TRUMP, WE THINK THE NICKNAME ‘MAD DOG’ WAS SARCASTIC! LIKE WHEN YOU CALL A TALL GUY SHORTY!” but it is too late to stop it now: There might, in spite of Trump’s best efforts, be a Sane Dog in the Trump administration. (Also, he used the word “atavistic,” and it impressed Sen. Ted Cruz very much.)
My poor iPad is hoping for a new thread soon, bless everybody and praise be and thanks
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Maybe having his pee-fetish out in the open means he CAN'T be blackmailed now. Downside: still an asshole, still loves Putin, still surrounded by Nazis and Russian assets.
Maybe it's worse than that. Remember back in June when he tweeted about saving number one?
And also around that time someone called him a dusty barrel of fermented peepee?
what I'm saying is maybe he keeps it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:36 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe it's worse than that. Remember back in June when he tweeted about saving number one?
And also around that time someone called him a dusty barrel of fermented peepee?
what I'm saying is maybe he keeps it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:36 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe he sleeps in said barrel. Like a salt water isolation tank.
posted by ian1977 at 2:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
crossposting to the whiskey thread
posted by beerperson at 2:39 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 2:39 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
The "buyer's remorse" bit isn't Eichenwald, it's lifted directly from the dossier published by Buzzfeed.
It's one of the believable portions, although impossible to verify.
posted by Superplin at 2:39 PM on January 13, 2017
It's one of the believable portions, although impossible to verify.
posted by Superplin at 2:39 PM on January 13, 2017
MSNBC broadcast abruptly freezes and repeats the word ‘Russia, Russia, Russia’ over and over
Don't laugh...something similar happened to this network once.
posted by rocket88 at 2:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Don't laugh...something similar happened to this network once.
posted by rocket88 at 2:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
NBC News engages in absurd hair-splitting to prop up reporting on Trump intel
In which NBC got the story wrong (claiming that Trump was never briefed on the summary), Kellyanne Conway makes great hay out of the NBC report, and instead of admitting they were wrong, NBC continues to insist they were right by making absurd distinctions between whether the information was presented "during the formal briefing" or whether Trump was told about it by Comey immediately after.
In which NBC got the story wrong (claiming that Trump was never briefed on the summary), Kellyanne Conway makes great hay out of the NBC report, and instead of admitting they were wrong, NBC continues to insist they were right by making absurd distinctions between whether the information was presented "during the formal briefing" or whether Trump was told about it by Comey immediately after.
A rule for the next four years: When the Trump people are touting your reporting, worry.posted by zachlipton at 2:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
CNN’s Tapper told the Erik Wemple Blog in a statement: “We were always confident in our reporting, multi-sourced, diligently and carefully told, and then matched by respected journalists at places such as the Washington Post, New York Times, and Wall Street Journal. Sure, some others relied on sources who turned out to be wrong, and they got burned, and that’s embarrassing for them. For us, we’re going to keep doing our jobs.”
what I'm saying is maybe he keeps it
in discarded whiskey bottles strewn about his bedroom?
posted by indubitable at 2:44 PM on January 13, 2017
in discarded whiskey bottles strewn about his bedroom?
posted by indubitable at 2:44 PM on January 13, 2017
Before a Tsunami hits, the ocean recedes, and everybody at the beach just marvels at how strange it is and wonders what is happening. I feel like I'm on that beach.
posted by diogenes at 2:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [114 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 2:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [114 favorites]
in discarded whiskey bottles strewn about his bedroom?
I've heard that could attract mice
posted by Copronymus at 2:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've heard that could attract mice
posted by Copronymus at 2:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did the MSNBC thing really happen?
I very much doubt it. I could have run that together in by mom's basement in a jiffy.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I very much doubt it. I could have run that together in by mom's basement in a jiffy.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ugh. Stepping back to assess the 10,000-foot view is just making me so discouraged. I mean, when I step outside the hype of all of the Russia stuff and apply Trump's Razor to it, I conclude that, rather than Trump being responsible for, or an otherwise witting accomplice to, anything sinister—the man himself, not his surrounding henchmen—it's likely just another instance of him being his giant asshole self, conniving for nothing more than self-serving attention to his continuing grift, his shitty, under-handed business dealings, his ego, his ubiquitous lack of ethics and morals, all of the above, etc.
And then I realize—and this just keeps happening to me over and over again—that it's all going to be this way. The details will change, but the shit show will not. He's not even president yet, and we're already into Crisis of the Republic territory. And it's just a continuation of what's been transpiring all along, simply with differing outcomes and effects based on his position of power/leverage/impact at any particular point in the timeline.
I mean, I've known this, academically, for a while now. And I've nominally understood that navigating this paradigm when he's POTUS is going to up-level things well beyond the consequences that came out of any particular segment of the election cycle. But now that we're here—now that I can look at situations like the Russia connection and understand that, as insane as it is, it's but the opening salvo in a barrage of these uber-terrifying scenarios that will continue unabated for the next four years—I just don't know how it's not all going to fall apart.
At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I imagine this must be what it feels like to try to digest the consequences of a coming war. The only way to not feel paralyzed with fear and hopelessness is to focus on the next step, the next obstacle, the next incoming wave. Sort of acknowledge the 10,000-foot view now and again, briefly, and move on. I feel very pessimistic about the future.
posted by Brak at 3:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
And then I realize—and this just keeps happening to me over and over again—that it's all going to be this way. The details will change, but the shit show will not. He's not even president yet, and we're already into Crisis of the Republic territory. And it's just a continuation of what's been transpiring all along, simply with differing outcomes and effects based on his position of power/leverage/impact at any particular point in the timeline.
I mean, I've known this, academically, for a while now. And I've nominally understood that navigating this paradigm when he's POTUS is going to up-level things well beyond the consequences that came out of any particular segment of the election cycle. But now that we're here—now that I can look at situations like the Russia connection and understand that, as insane as it is, it's but the opening salvo in a barrage of these uber-terrifying scenarios that will continue unabated for the next four years—I just don't know how it's not all going to fall apart.
At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I imagine this must be what it feels like to try to digest the consequences of a coming war. The only way to not feel paralyzed with fear and hopelessness is to focus on the next step, the next obstacle, the next incoming wave. Sort of acknowledge the 10,000-foot view now and again, briefly, and move on. I feel very pessimistic about the future.
posted by Brak at 3:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
I imagine this must be what it feels like to try to digest the consequences of a coming war.
I was wondering on New Year's if this is what it felt like as 1938 became 1939.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I was wondering on New Year's if this is what it felt like as 1938 became 1939.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
What are the possibilities?
1) Comey's setting himself up as Hoover, a kingmaker with kompromat on everybody. Trump serves at Comey's pleasure, not the other way around.
2) Comey and/or other FBI higher ups are in league with the Russians and Trump.
3) Comey knows he fucked up royally, knows that Trump will be coming for him, and he is playing it super close to the vest until it's time to strike.
4) All is chaos, nothing means anything.
It's 4).
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
1) Comey's setting himself up as Hoover, a kingmaker with kompromat on everybody. Trump serves at Comey's pleasure, not the other way around.
2) Comey and/or other FBI higher ups are in league with the Russians and Trump.
3) Comey knows he fucked up royally, knows that Trump will be coming for him, and he is playing it super close to the vest until it's time to strike.
4) All is chaos, nothing means anything.
It's 4).
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
(insert reflection on the shared meaning-making that is a democratic society's narrative, and how that is breaking down)
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm increasingly more worried about this crappy GOP led Congress which is...pretty much how I felt before Nov 8th. As much as I've become a Clinton fan, I was more disappointed that Dems didn't win the Senate.
posted by zutalors! at 3:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 3:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pay attention to chants over the next while. The collective voice, untrammelled by the distortions of media, will be (as it has been) a very important index.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 3:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Especially when the notional agents in the discussion (elites, WWC, liberals, democrats) become harder to discern.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:20 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by stonepharisee at 3:20 PM on January 13, 2017
Chants, though, are also mediated through the media. A million Americans marching in every city didn't stop the Iraq War.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, you have to be there. It can't be transmitted.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:22 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by stonepharisee at 3:22 PM on January 13, 2017
One of the things that scares me most is how all the resistance is about 2018. What if there isn't a US government as we have known it, in 2018? WHat if there is no blue or red, only rulers and ruled?
posted by yoga at 3:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by yoga at 3:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Arizona Lawmaker crafts new law (HB2120) to BAN all college courses, events, & activities mentioning social justice
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
And then I realize—and this just keeps happening to me over and over again—that it's all going to be this way. The details will change, but the shit show will not. He's not even president yet, and we're already into Crisis of the Republic territory. And it's just a continuation of what's been transpiring all along, simply with differing outcomes and effects based on his position of power/leverage/impact at any particular point in the timeline.
Is it consoling -- perhaps, perhaps not? -- to consider that the constitutional crisis we are in began six years ago?
It has been more than half a decade since the American government has been functionally able to act on any major issue facing the nation. From amending and improving the ACA, to addressing our failing infrastructure, to improving race relations, to addressing unemployment and restructuring the economy to meet the new challenges of globalization in this century, to handling foreign policy crises -- Congress has done nothing, and without Congress the President had only a limited set of tools. He wielded them admirably, to be sure, particularly once he recognized that this was the only option he had (and it took far too long for this to happen).
But the crisis we are in now is not the beginning, but the end of the beginning of a constitutional crisis that was started in 2010 by Republican arch-capitalists hoping to ride the Tea Party wave of proto-fascism into power. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, and it's kind of a surprise that our institutions have taken this long to start to blow apart.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
Is it consoling -- perhaps, perhaps not? -- to consider that the constitutional crisis we are in began six years ago?
It has been more than half a decade since the American government has been functionally able to act on any major issue facing the nation. From amending and improving the ACA, to addressing our failing infrastructure, to improving race relations, to addressing unemployment and restructuring the economy to meet the new challenges of globalization in this century, to handling foreign policy crises -- Congress has done nothing, and without Congress the President had only a limited set of tools. He wielded them admirably, to be sure, particularly once he recognized that this was the only option he had (and it took far too long for this to happen).
But the crisis we are in now is not the beginning, but the end of the beginning of a constitutional crisis that was started in 2010 by Republican arch-capitalists hoping to ride the Tea Party wave of proto-fascism into power. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, and it's kind of a surprise that our institutions have taken this long to start to blow apart.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
What if there isn't a US government as we have known it, in 2018? WHat if there is no blue or red, only rulers and ruled?
Then we are fucked.
There is a distinct possibility this is the case.
I mean, there could be a revolution or something, but it seems a bit unlikely, Americans being all talk and no trousers on that front. Plus if it comes to mobs in the streets I'm not confident of the direction the pitchforks will end up pointed.
posted by Artw at 3:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Then we are fucked.
There is a distinct possibility this is the case.
I mean, there could be a revolution or something, but it seems a bit unlikely, Americans being all talk and no trousers on that front. Plus if it comes to mobs in the streets I'm not confident of the direction the pitchforks will end up pointed.
posted by Artw at 3:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Re: Guns.
I hate guns, but I brought up the idea of buying one to my husband because of the current situation. And we also live in the middle of the woods and are probably the only people within several miles who DON'T own a single firearm. I mean, I had a mountain lion in my yard once, ok.
But my husband, who was raised in a gun crazy family (ok so was I to be fair) and who, the first time I slept over with him had a loaded gun next to the bed (!) talked me down. He quoted back to me all the statistics I have used over the years about how much having a gun in the house increases your likelihood of death. And how given we both have some mental health issues, having a gun would be far more likely to be used on ourselves than anyone else. Because most people who die gun-related deaths die at their own hands or in a domestic violence situation.
So yeah, I don't think owning a gun will protect you if Civil War 2 breaks out. And I don't think giving in to the panic is the answer. More than anything because if you are prone to despair, having a gun around is the LAST thing you need.
posted by threeturtles at 3:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I hate guns, but I brought up the idea of buying one to my husband because of the current situation. And we also live in the middle of the woods and are probably the only people within several miles who DON'T own a single firearm. I mean, I had a mountain lion in my yard once, ok.
But my husband, who was raised in a gun crazy family (ok so was I to be fair) and who, the first time I slept over with him had a loaded gun next to the bed (!) talked me down. He quoted back to me all the statistics I have used over the years about how much having a gun in the house increases your likelihood of death. And how given we both have some mental health issues, having a gun would be far more likely to be used on ourselves than anyone else. Because most people who die gun-related deaths die at their own hands or in a domestic violence situation.
So yeah, I don't think owning a gun will protect you if Civil War 2 breaks out. And I don't think giving in to the panic is the answer. More than anything because if you are prone to despair, having a gun around is the LAST thing you need.
posted by threeturtles at 3:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
In general I am mostly hoping I am wrong about things these days, because everything I see coming our way is pretty fucking bleak.
posted by Artw at 3:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Quick break from apocalyptic handwringing for a minute: Do any MeFites have connections at Tufts University?
posted by pxe2000 at 3:33 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by pxe2000 at 3:33 PM on January 13, 2017
Arizona Lawmaker crafts new law (HB2120) to BAN all college courses, events, & activities mentioning social justice
So being a state legislator is by and large an utterly terrible job, which means that a lot of the people you'd wish were legislators aren't and vice versa. Legislators introduce all sorts of dumb shit year after year. I wouldn't be worried about this; there is always an undercurrent of shit like this getting introduced. It's not at all worth worrying about until it gets a positive committee vote.
...but it does mean this guy is an asshole, and we should follow Sweet Clyde's example and laugh derisively at him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
So being a state legislator is by and large an utterly terrible job, which means that a lot of the people you'd wish were legislators aren't and vice versa. Legislators introduce all sorts of dumb shit year after year. I wouldn't be worried about this; there is always an undercurrent of shit like this getting introduced. It's not at all worth worrying about until it gets a positive committee vote.
...but it does mean this guy is an asshole, and we should follow Sweet Clyde's example and laugh derisively at him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Intelligence Committee will investigate possible Russia-Trump links
"Senate Intelligence Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) said late Friday that his committee would investigate possible contacts between Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia, reversing himself one day after telling reporters that the issue would be outside of his panel’s ongoing probe into Moscow’s election-disruption efforts.
In a statement issued jointly with the committee’s top Democrat, Virginia Sen. Mark Warner, Burr said the committee would use “subpoenas if necessary” to secure testimony from Obama administration officials as well as Trump’s team on Russia’s cyberattacks and on other efforts at election meddling."
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Senate Intelligence Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) said late Friday that his committee would investigate possible contacts between Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia, reversing himself one day after telling reporters that the issue would be outside of his panel’s ongoing probe into Moscow’s election-disruption efforts.
In a statement issued jointly with the committee’s top Democrat, Virginia Sen. Mark Warner, Burr said the committee would use “subpoenas if necessary” to secure testimony from Obama administration officials as well as Trump’s team on Russia’s cyberattacks and on other efforts at election meddling."
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Senate Intelligence Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) said late Friday that his committee would investigate possible contacts between Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia, reversing himself one day after telling reporters that the issue would be outside of his panel’s ongoing probe into Moscow’s election-disruption efforts.
I'm suspecting the [fake] conclusion will be "there's all this evidence, but Russia said its not true, and who are we to doubt them?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm suspecting the [fake] conclusion will be "there's all this evidence, but Russia said its not true, and who are we to doubt them?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was wondering on New Year's if this is what it felt like as 1938 became 1939.
So, this is pretty random and doesn't directly relate to today's news, but you made me think of it. As I was remodeling in my garage last year, I found these... newspaper-related things. I would say printing plates, but they were like foam/rubbery. Anyway, they were from an edition of the San Francisco Chronicle in late 1935, which you could read from looking at them. The main story was about Roosevelt signing the Social Security Act, which was cool, but there was also a column below the fold about Haile Selassie of Abyssinia (!) petitioning the League of Nations for assistance against the Italian colonial forces who were invading in violation of their prior treaty obligations.
It gave me a chill because I knew reading it that this was Mussolini, this was Italian fascism spreading its wings and preparing for the coming storm. But no one knew that at the time, of course. It was just a dispatch from a "minor" conflict in some remote part of the world. A cold, clinical story about diplomatic maneuvering, the same way we read UN stories now. It seemed so normal.
IT SEEMED SO NORMAL.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [69 favorites]
So, this is pretty random and doesn't directly relate to today's news, but you made me think of it. As I was remodeling in my garage last year, I found these... newspaper-related things. I would say printing plates, but they were like foam/rubbery. Anyway, they were from an edition of the San Francisco Chronicle in late 1935, which you could read from looking at them. The main story was about Roosevelt signing the Social Security Act, which was cool, but there was also a column below the fold about Haile Selassie of Abyssinia (!) petitioning the League of Nations for assistance against the Italian colonial forces who were invading in violation of their prior treaty obligations.
It gave me a chill because I knew reading it that this was Mussolini, this was Italian fascism spreading its wings and preparing for the coming storm. But no one knew that at the time, of course. It was just a dispatch from a "minor" conflict in some remote part of the world. A cold, clinical story about diplomatic maneuvering, the same way we read UN stories now. It seemed so normal.
IT SEEMED SO NORMAL.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [69 favorites]
But the crisis we are in now is not the beginning, but the end of the beginning of a constitutional crisis that was started in 2010 by Republican arch-capitalists hoping to ride the Tea Party wave of proto-fascism into power. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, and it's kind of a surprise that our institutions have taken this long to start to blow apart.It's a fair point. It's another one of those things that, while I've had an acute awareness in isolation, I hadn't sufficiently stepped back enough to realize that only a strong and reasonably principled Executive branch was keeping us from the abyss. With Trump, another leg has been knocked out from under us.
When I'm left with hopes that hinge upon the government's ability to run on auto-pilot, or the serendipity of the right villains stabbing just the right other villains in the back, well. It all feels very unpredictable and bleak.
posted by Brak at 3:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Arizona Lawmaker crafts new law (HB2120) to BAN all college courses, events, & activities mentioning social justice
So, the backstory here is that this is not new. A few years ago, a similar law was passed against a class in Tucson. That didn't go so well for its proponents, in the end. This is another run at the same issue. Groups all over the state are mobilizing members to battle this bill, which is in violation of the First Amendment.
Doesn't mean it won't pass, of course, and do some damage before it can be rescinded. Better if we can just block it out of the gate.
posted by Superplin at 3:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
So, the backstory here is that this is not new. A few years ago, a similar law was passed against a class in Tucson. That didn't go so well for its proponents, in the end. This is another run at the same issue. Groups all over the state are mobilizing members to battle this bill, which is in violation of the First Amendment.
Doesn't mean it won't pass, of course, and do some damage before it can be rescinded. Better if we can just block it out of the gate.
posted by Superplin at 3:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
@gaywonk
THE 7 STAGES OF TRUMP GRIEF:
1. omg
2. this is so bad
3. yep still so bad
4. we are going to die
5. help
6. somehow even worse today
7. omg
posted by chris24 at 4:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
THE 7 STAGES OF TRUMP GRIEF:
1. omg
2. this is so bad
3. yep still so bad
4. we are going to die
5. help
6. somehow even worse today
7. omg
posted by chris24 at 4:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
8. actually dead
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
8. GOTO 1
posted by Brak at 4:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Brak at 4:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Seriously what happened in that FBI briefing?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Groups all over the state are mobilizing members to battle this bill, which is in violation of the First Amendment.
The guy who introduced this bill is my state house rep I mentioned upthread. He was one of the legislators who drove out to Nevada to visit with Cliven Bundy during his standoff. He regularly introduces ridiculous bills that are super-duper obviously unconstitutional. If they wrote comic books about legislative super villains, his catchphrase would be "Curses! Foiled by the supremacy clause again!"
You can see everything he's sponsoring/co-sponsoring this legislative session here. He wants to allow the state legislature to remove federal judges, and he wants to block college students who live in dorms from registering to vote at their actual address. He has a lot of bad ideas.
posted by compartment at 4:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
The guy who introduced this bill is my state house rep I mentioned upthread. He was one of the legislators who drove out to Nevada to visit with Cliven Bundy during his standoff. He regularly introduces ridiculous bills that are super-duper obviously unconstitutional. If they wrote comic books about legislative super villains, his catchphrase would be "Curses! Foiled by the supremacy clause again!"
You can see everything he's sponsoring/co-sponsoring this legislative session here. He wants to allow the state legislature to remove federal judges, and he wants to block college students who live in dorms from registering to vote at their actual address. He has a lot of bad ideas.
posted by compartment at 4:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
i don't have any hope. i believe we'll be under some kind of marshall law within the first 100 days.
the tsunami on the horizon becomes louder and more terrible by the day.
what do you do? go to work, shovel the walk, clean the litter. count the things to be grateful for, count the things to fight for.
posted by localhuman at 4:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
the tsunami on the horizon becomes louder and more terrible by the day.
what do you do? go to work, shovel the walk, clean the litter. count the things to be grateful for, count the things to fight for.
posted by localhuman at 4:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
You mean that caused all of the hand-wringing Democrat responses? I assumed that the article in Artw's link provided those particular details (to a degree). As, in:
CONGRESS MEMBERS: Come on Comey, we're in private now. What do you have?
COMEY: I don't care if we're in private, I'm still not gonna tell you that.
CONGRESS MEMBERS: Butbutbut *hand wringing* we're very concerned.
I guess I don't know what happened, more specifically than that.
posted by Brak at 4:14 PM on January 13, 2017
CONGRESS MEMBERS: Come on Comey, we're in private now. What do you have?
COMEY: I don't care if we're in private, I'm still not gonna tell you that.
CONGRESS MEMBERS: Butbutbut *hand wringing* we're very concerned.
I guess I don't know what happened, more specifically than that.
posted by Brak at 4:14 PM on January 13, 2017
If anyone wants an easy way to get out some rage, please feel free to Tweet back at these folks:
@CityofBiloxi
Non-emergency municipal offices in Biloxi will be closed on Monday in observance of Great Americans Day.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:15 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
@CityofBiloxi
Non-emergency municipal offices in Biloxi will be closed on Monday in observance of Great Americans Day.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:15 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
God we have a lot of dipshits in our legislature.
Two of ours came to the LD meeting last night, and it is such a relief to have intelligent people I'm not ashamed of in the state house (one is Senate Minority Leader Kati Hobbs, the other state rep Ken Clark). But we are always one election away from Batshitville.
posted by Superplin at 4:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Two of ours came to the LD meeting last night, and it is such a relief to have intelligent people I'm not ashamed of in the state house (one is Senate Minority Leader Kati Hobbs, the other state rep Ken Clark). But we are always one election away from Batshitville.
posted by Superplin at 4:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was thinking more like they showed them the skinless remains of one Trump, Donald and then told them Top Men were still working to figure out what was currently inside said skin
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:17 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:17 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump is already forgetting America’s farmers: No one has been nominated to lead the Department of Agriculture.
posted by homunculus at 4:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 4:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Would also explain why he refers to himself in the third person
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:20 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:20 PM on January 13, 2017
Re protests and guard commander being told to stand down. This makes me very nervous about the protests.
Sigh. I am working under the assumption that I am putting myself into a dangerous situation when I go to the Womens' March in DC. I am working under the assumption that there will be violence incited by counter-protesters and alt-right moles. I've moved beyond scared. Scared is thinking something MIGHT happen. I'm in this resigned place where I believe something WILL happen. It startled me how nonchalant I was when, as I was putting my march first aid together, I thought, "Welp, better get some Quik-Clot, too." Pink pussyhat and Quik-Clot, that's how I'll be rolling.
posted by Ruki at 4:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
Sigh. I am working under the assumption that I am putting myself into a dangerous situation when I go to the Womens' March in DC. I am working under the assumption that there will be violence incited by counter-protesters and alt-right moles. I've moved beyond scared. Scared is thinking something MIGHT happen. I'm in this resigned place where I believe something WILL happen. It startled me how nonchalant I was when, as I was putting my march first aid together, I thought, "Welp, better get some Quik-Clot, too." Pink pussyhat and Quik-Clot, that's how I'll be rolling.
posted by Ruki at 4:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
Ruki, you're awesome. Stay safe down there!!
posted by wenestvedt at 4:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 4:22 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Non-emergency municipal offices in Biloxi will be closed on Monday in observance of Great Americans Day.
Ah yes, the town that has "THIS VEHICLE BOUGHT WITH FUNDS SEIZED FROM DRUG DEALERS" or similar emblazoned on the back of police vehicles.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:24 PM on January 13, 2017
Ah yes, the town that has "THIS VEHICLE BOUGHT WITH FUNDS SEIZED FROM DRUG DEALERS" or similar emblazoned on the back of police vehicles.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:24 PM on January 13, 2017
Some suggestions from friends who are going to be in DC next weekend:
- Carry cash
- Wear running shoes
- If you have a cell phone with you, be prepared to video if you see anything and feel safe enough to
- Keep your eyes and ears open. Trust your instincts.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
- Carry cash
- Wear running shoes
- If you have a cell phone with you, be prepared to video if you see anything and feel safe enough to
- Keep your eyes and ears open. Trust your instincts.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Great Americans Day.
I am enjoying the Twitter response so far, but this also gave me a momentary panic that Comrade Trump had already decided to fuck with federal holidays...
posted by TwoStride at 4:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am enjoying the Twitter response so far, but this also gave me a momentary panic that Comrade Trump had already decided to fuck with federal holidays...
posted by TwoStride at 4:27 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
@spectatorindex: CHINA: State media editorial says that if Trump team continues on current course, both countries should "prepare for a military clash"
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:27 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:27 PM on January 13, 2017
I have no idea if that particular bubbling war scenario is down to incompetence, botched grifting or Putin desiring a nuclear exchange involving people not him.
posted by Artw at 4:30 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Artw at 4:30 PM on January 13, 2017
Carry some Maalox and water - I think the most negative thing likely to happen is tear gas, and it's a real fucker.
posted by corb at 4:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
In Mississippi, it's officially "Martin Luther King's and Robert E. Lee's Birthdays" in best dixieflag fashion, so Biloxi has fabricated its own term guaranteed to satisfy nobody but at least fit in a tweet.
("National Memorial Day / Jefferson Davis' Birthday" is just as bad in its own way, especially since Confederate Memorial Day is its own separate holiday in late April to mark the last military surrender in 1865.)
posted by holgate at 4:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
("National Memorial Day / Jefferson Davis' Birthday" is just as bad in its own way, especially since Confederate Memorial Day is its own separate holiday in late April to mark the last military surrender in 1865.)
posted by holgate at 4:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's probably already been, but I thought I'd share this imgur gallery of 55 of the white house chief photographer's favorite pictures of Obama. He's a pretty cool president and I'm glad I voted for him.
Thanks, Obama.
posted by INFJ at 4:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Thanks, Obama.
posted by INFJ at 4:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen, I was just thinking this afternoon that it was good we still had one last Martin Luther King birthday to celebrate as a nation :( I was thinking that any reference to the Rev. Dr. King would be gone by next January on a federal level. Sadly, I'm way late with my calculations. It never actually occurred to me that cities would take this tone so soon without a federal lead--and brazen enough to publicize it. More normalization, I assume.
posted by Silverstone at 4:32 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Silverstone at 4:32 PM on January 13, 2017
I have no idea if that particular bubbling war scenario is down to incompetence, botched grifting or Putin desiring a nuclear exchange involving people not him.
There is no such thing as a nuclear exchange that doesn't involve everyone.
posted by Jalliah at 4:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
In Mississippi, it's officially "Martin Luther King's and Robert E. Lee's Birthdays" in best dixieflag fashion, so Biloxi has fabricated its own term guaranteed to satisfy nobody but at least fit in a tweet.
("National Memorial Day / Jefferson Davis' Birthday" is just as bad in its own way, especially since Confederate Memorial Day is its own separate holiday in late April to mark the last military surrender in 1865.)
You know, I was racking my brain trying to remember which official state holidays here in Virginia amount to basically "Confederacy Day" and your post hasn't really helped jog my memory. It could be any of those or all of those.
posted by indubitable at 4:34 PM on January 13, 2017
("National Memorial Day / Jefferson Davis' Birthday" is just as bad in its own way, especially since Confederate Memorial Day is its own separate holiday in late April to mark the last military surrender in 1865.)
You know, I was racking my brain trying to remember which official state holidays here in Virginia amount to basically "Confederacy Day" and your post hasn't really helped jog my memory. It could be any of those or all of those.
posted by indubitable at 4:34 PM on January 13, 2017
Every day *isn't* Great Americans Day?
posted by yoga at 4:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yoga at 4:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some suggestions from friends who are going to be in DC next weekend:
The local DC area news stations are already giving their inaugural forecasts, with the caveat about the accuracy of long range forecasts, but they're saying it might be the warmest inauguration day on record and even warmer on Saturday for the protest march.
posted by peeedro at 4:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The local DC area news stations are already giving their inaugural forecasts, with the caveat about the accuracy of long range forecasts, but they're saying it might be the warmest inauguration day on record and even warmer on Saturday for the protest march.
posted by peeedro at 4:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Great, Americans" Day
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:36 PM on January 13, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:36 PM on January 13, 2017 [22 favorites]
The local DC area news stations are already giving their inaugural forecasts, with the caveat about the accuracy of long range forecasts, but they're saying it might be the warmest inauguration day on record and even warmer on Saturday for the protest march.
Swamp Ass, Official Sponsor of the Donald J. Trump Presidential Inauguration!
posted by indubitable at 4:37 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Swamp Ass, Official Sponsor of the Donald J. Trump Presidential Inauguration!
posted by indubitable at 4:37 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
You know, I was wracking my brain trying to remember which official state holidays here in Virginia amount to basically "Confederacy Day" and your post hasn't really helped jog my memory. It could be any of those or all of those.
You're maybe thinking of Lee-Jackson King Day, which has not been a thing since 2000 when Lee-Jackson Day was moved to the Friday before MLK day.
posted by peeedro at 4:37 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
You're maybe thinking of Lee-Jackson King Day, which has not been a thing since 2000 when Lee-Jackson Day was moved to the Friday before MLK day.
posted by peeedro at 4:37 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is no such thing as a nuclear exchange that doesn't involve everyone.
Well, Putin is a leader who believes he can win global warming, he might have odd views on that.
posted by Artw at 4:38 PM on January 13, 2017
Well, Putin is a leader who believes he can win global warming, he might have odd views on that.
posted by Artw at 4:38 PM on January 13, 2017
There's a bit in the dossier about a stake in a Russian energy company -- there was a deal of the same percentage that had everyone scratching their heads last month.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The best way to handle inauguration protests specifically, and life for the next few years in general is to adopt the protagonist's rules from the movie Zombieland.*
I need to work on my cardio.
* the exception is that NOBODY is to shoot Bill Murray
posted by delfin at 4:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
I need to work on my cardio.
* the exception is that NOBODY is to shoot Bill Murray
posted by delfin at 4:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
I was racking my brain trying to remember which official state holidays here in Virginia amount to basically "Confederacy Day"
State holidays in the south, y'know. Georgia converted its dixiedays into "State Holiday" (I shit ye not), NC doesn't have any dixiedays but celebrates Good Friday, Mississippi is Mississippi.
posted by holgate at 4:42 PM on January 13, 2017
State holidays in the south, y'know. Georgia converted its dixiedays into "State Holiday" (I shit ye not), NC doesn't have any dixiedays but celebrates Good Friday, Mississippi is Mississippi.
posted by holgate at 4:42 PM on January 13, 2017
You're maybe thinking of Lee-Jackson King Day, which has not been a thing since 2000 when Lee-Jackson Day was moved to the Friday before MLK day.
I'll see your civil rights leader, and raise you two Confederate generals.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
3 Doors Down. Damn it, I liked some of their music. Now I'm going to have to find replacement songs for my playlists. (This is probably bad of me, but I don't often go out of the way to look up artists' politics unless they're super public about them, because I've been disappointed too many times and too many things have been poisoned.)
I hate situations like this - there are artists whose work I can find some pleasure in, however bitter, who were vile people or worked with vile people, but it's a lot easier when they and the people they enabled are dead.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I hate situations like this - there are artists whose work I can find some pleasure in, however bitter, who were vile people or worked with vile people, but it's a lot easier when they and the people they enabled are dead.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
adopt the protagonist's rules from the movie Zombieland
One of my first thoughts after the results of the election were confirmed, was, "Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride."
posted by Brak at 4:51 PM on January 13, 2017
One of my first thoughts after the results of the election were confirmed, was, "Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride."
posted by Brak at 4:51 PM on January 13, 2017
3 Doors Down risks nothing by performing. They have no current income to speak of.
That said, the line-up seems well suited for the 2000 Dick Clark New Years Rockin' Eve.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:52 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
That said, the line-up seems well suited for the 2000 Dick Clark New Years Rockin' Eve.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:52 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
3 Doors Down
Even they see the writing on the wall, they're fleeing to Canada shortly after the inauguration.
posted by peeedro at 4:52 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Even they see the writing on the wall, they're fleeing to Canada shortly after the inauguration.
posted by peeedro at 4:52 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
For the record, every time I see the title of this FPP, I hear this song.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:56 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:56 PM on January 13, 2017
I'm mostly bitter because one of my fanmixes had a song from them on it. I didn't know much about them or their music, but I thought the song fit the character it was attached to and the mix is one of my favorites out of my own work. Now I feel embarrassed and sad that I liked the song at all.
(I'm just glad most of my favorite favorite artists/bands are solidly liberal.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:59 PM on January 13, 2017
(I'm just glad most of my favorite favorite artists/bands are solidly liberal.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:59 PM on January 13, 2017
I feel like next Friday we're going to immediately plunge into anarchy and chaos like in the SportsCenter Y2K commercial.
Except it was a simulation in the commercial and this is real.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Except it was a simulation in the commercial and this is real.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Buzzfeed: The dossier alleging that the Russian government has compromised President-elect Donald Trump has not only been circulating at the highest levels of the the US government, but also among the intelligence agencies of other countries, two Israeli intelligence officers told BuzzFeed News. And while the dossier’s claims haven’t been verified, the officers said that intelligence services from other countries have been doing their own digging into Trump’s connections to Moscow.
“You can trust me that many intelligence agencies are trying to evaluate the extent to which Trump might have ties, or a weakness of some type, to Russia,” one of the intellligence officers said.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
“You can trust me that many intelligence agencies are trying to evaluate the extent to which Trump might have ties, or a weakness of some type, to Russia,” one of the intellligence officers said.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hey quick question I know that Flynn got caught screwing around with classified documents. Wasn't there another Trump pick that pass on something related to a journal or diary?
posted by Jalliah at 5:05 PM on January 13, 2017
I got an email from The Womens March saying backpacks will not be allowed at the Women's March in DC. What's the best way to carry things?
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:07 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
maggiemaggie: the PA Chapter shared this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I got an email from The Womens March saying backpacks will not be allowed at the Women's March in DC. What's the best way to carry things?
Fanny pack. Coat pockets.
And if you only need id, cards and some cash something like a travel pouch that you can wear under your clothes.
posted by Jalliah at 5:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fanny pack. Coat pockets.
And if you only need id, cards and some cash something like a travel pouch that you can wear under your clothes.
posted by Jalliah at 5:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I got an email from The Womens March saying backpacks will not be allowed at the Women's March in DC. What's the best way to carry things?
It's going to be 57 degrees (unseasonably warm for DC) so light jacket with pockets?
posted by Talez at 5:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's going to be 57 degrees (unseasonably warm for DC) so light jacket with pockets?
posted by Talez at 5:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
What's the best way to carry things?
I bought a sling bag, like a cross body fanny pack. And I have a clear plastic tote for food, thanks to a bag restricted concert from last summer. I'm ditching my wallet and carrying my ID, a debit card, and some cash in a pocket stuck to the back of my phone case.
posted by Ruki at 5:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I bought a sling bag, like a cross body fanny pack. And I have a clear plastic tote for food, thanks to a bag restricted concert from last summer. I'm ditching my wallet and carrying my ID, a debit card, and some cash in a pocket stuck to the back of my phone case.
posted by Ruki at 5:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I got an email from The Womens March saying backpacks will not be allowed at the Women's March in DC. What's the best way to carry things?
I recommend a small handbag or purse to carry personal information and valuables, something that can be hidden.
I'm becoming seriously afraid of what might happen at the inauguration.
I'm going, because it's the right thing to do and I want to make a stand while I can, but I'm legitimately becoming scared of violence against protesters and police violence. Then again, it's become clear that intimidation is one of Donald's favorite tactics and he wants people to back down out of fear.
Factoring in weasels like O'Keefe trying to stir up trouble, I think we'll also have to be very wary of would-be provocateurs.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I recommend a small handbag or purse to carry personal information and valuables, something that can be hidden.
I'm becoming seriously afraid of what might happen at the inauguration.
I'm going, because it's the right thing to do and I want to make a stand while I can, but I'm legitimately becoming scared of violence against protesters and police violence. Then again, it's become clear that intimidation is one of Donald's favorite tactics and he wants people to back down out of fear.
Factoring in weasels like O'Keefe trying to stir up trouble, I think we'll also have to be very wary of would-be provocateurs.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Security wise, you're better off with a credit card over a debit card for purchases. If it get's stolen, you're disputing the bank's money on a credit account vs. YOUR money in your checking account.
I am A banker, not your banker, etc.
posted by VTX at 5:17 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
I am A banker, not your banker, etc.
posted by VTX at 5:17 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
> “It will not be my intention to do anything that will benefit any American” — Ben Carson, with an all-time great gaffe.
Charles Pierce: Being for the Benefit of Mister, er, Dr. Carson
> Here's your chilling-as-fuck news for the morning. Commanding general of D.C. National Guard to be removed from post
The Trump Transition: Now With More Layoffs! Efficiency experts!
> Dems 'outraged' with Comey after House briefing
What, Exactly, Did House Democrats Just Learn from James Comey? An insane week barrels toward an insane finish.
> House PASSES budget resolution to allow for a repeal of Obamacare with a simple majority. Vote was 227-198.
This Week We Witnessed a National Disgrace. The pattern will continue.
posted by homunculus at 5:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Charles Pierce: Being for the Benefit of Mister, er, Dr. Carson
> Here's your chilling-as-fuck news for the morning. Commanding general of D.C. National Guard to be removed from post
The Trump Transition: Now With More Layoffs! Efficiency experts!
> Dems 'outraged' with Comey after House briefing
What, Exactly, Did House Democrats Just Learn from James Comey? An insane week barrels toward an insane finish.
> House PASSES budget resolution to allow for a repeal of Obamacare with a simple majority. Vote was 227-198.
This Week We Witnessed a National Disgrace. The pattern will continue.
posted by homunculus at 5:19 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Jalliah: Hey quick question I know that Flynn got caught screwing around with classified documents. Wasn't there another Trump pick that pass on something related to a journal or diary?
Former CIA director David Petraeus was being considered for a while. He had a scandal regarding mishandling classified materials by giving notebooks to his mistress.
posted by bluecore at 5:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Former CIA director David Petraeus was being considered for a while. He had a scandal regarding mishandling classified materials by giving notebooks to his mistress.
posted by bluecore at 5:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Out of curiosity, where can I find a list of everyone who's playing at the inauguration, so I know who to boycott from now on?
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Former CIA director David Petraeus was being considered for a while. He had a scandal regarding mishandling classified materials by giving notebooks to his mistress.
That's it. Thanks.
posted by Jalliah at 5:23 PM on January 13, 2017
That's it. Thanks.
posted by Jalliah at 5:23 PM on January 13, 2017
I thought I'd share this imgur gallery of 55 of the white house chief photographer's favorite pictures of Obama
The photo from the Lincoln Memorial seems especially appropriate right now.
There's something about the way that Lincoln is looking down; I've always thought he looks a little sad. I mean, sad isn't quite the right word; he looks like he's keeping himself composed in a place between grief and melancholy. Like he believes so deeply in the righteousness of self-government that its fragility is painful.
I wonder how Obama is feeling right now. He seemed to believe so deeply in our institutions and in our capacity to choose the right course. I don't think he feels betrayed. But I have to imagine that he understands that fragility in a way he never did before.
posted by compartment at 5:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
The photo from the Lincoln Memorial seems especially appropriate right now.
There's something about the way that Lincoln is looking down; I've always thought he looks a little sad. I mean, sad isn't quite the right word; he looks like he's keeping himself composed in a place between grief and melancholy. Like he believes so deeply in the righteousness of self-government that its fragility is painful.
I wonder how Obama is feeling right now. He seemed to believe so deeply in our institutions and in our capacity to choose the right course. I don't think he feels betrayed. But I have to imagine that he understands that fragility in a way he never did before.
posted by compartment at 5:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Security wise, you're better off with a credit card over a debit card for purchases. If it get's stolen, you're disputing the bank's money on a credit account vs. YOUR money in your checking account.
I am A banker, not your banker, etc.
Excellent point, and I work for a bank, too, so shame on me. I'd also add that you should inform the bank beforehand if you're traveling*, and hopefully, you have a credit card that you can freeze from an app. I'm posting this for my own benefit, too, so I don't forget.
(*I once crossed state lines to go grocery shopping, which is closer than the grocery store in my own town, and my own company shut down my card for fraud. I had to verify my recent purchases, which were literally pizza and beer, and I was like, really, this is pretty much my standard purchase history.)
posted by Ruki at 5:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I am A banker, not your banker, etc.
Excellent point, and I work for a bank, too, so shame on me. I'd also add that you should inform the bank beforehand if you're traveling*, and hopefully, you have a credit card that you can freeze from an app. I'm posting this for my own benefit, too, so I don't forget.
(*I once crossed state lines to go grocery shopping, which is closer than the grocery store in my own town, and my own company shut down my card for fraud. I had to verify my recent purchases, which were literally pizza and beer, and I was like, really, this is pretty much my standard purchase history.)
posted by Ruki at 5:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
No one has been nominated to lead the Department of Agriculture.
Trump obviously knows nobody qualified to destroy the Department of Agriculture from within. Considering he has never dealt with a farm in his life except to destroy one to build a golf course and based on the quality of his restaurant offerings wouldn't know quality food if he was pelted with it, this seems obvious.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump obviously knows nobody qualified to destroy the Department of Agriculture from within. Considering he has never dealt with a farm in his life except to destroy one to build a golf course and based on the quality of his restaurant offerings wouldn't know quality food if he was pelted with it, this seems obvious.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:29 PM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
I would accept Willie Nelson as Secretary of Agriculture. That's one way Trump could reach out to the rest of us.
posted by peeedro at 5:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 5:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also, I've organized DC protests before. D.C. cops are /assholes/ to protesters even in the best of times. I'm not saying you'll be arrested, but it's wise to know in advance who can pick you up with cash bail. They do not let you use cards.
posted by corb at 5:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
He seemed to believe so deeply in our institutions and in our capacity to choose the right course. I don't think he feels betrayed.
He is too classy to show it if he did feel that way. But I suspect he is very sad, because he thought he had moved the pendulum a bit in the right direction only to see it slammed back the other way at relativistic velocity on his departure.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
He is too classy to show it if he did feel that way. But I suspect he is very sad, because he thought he had moved the pendulum a bit in the right direction only to see it slammed back the other way at relativistic velocity on his departure.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Re.: Obamas strange and confusing actions
I have the feeling something out of any order is taking place and the presidency and the IC are scrambling trying to manage it (and perhaps loosing, giving Comey's continued obstruction).
There is no doubt right now that Russia feels it has the upper hand and they are making blatant demonstrations of power. Not only in the US, but across the entire border of Russia.
Every country in Europe and the EU itself are pushing the alarm buttons. Here in Denmark, this includes outing politicians and pundits as Putin Quislings, even if they are necessary government allies. People are really, really scared.
posted by mumimor at 5:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
I have the feeling something out of any order is taking place and the presidency and the IC are scrambling trying to manage it (and perhaps loosing, giving Comey's continued obstruction).
There is no doubt right now that Russia feels it has the upper hand and they are making blatant demonstrations of power. Not only in the US, but across the entire border of Russia.
Every country in Europe and the EU itself are pushing the alarm buttons. Here in Denmark, this includes outing politicians and pundits as Putin Quislings, even if they are necessary government allies. People are really, really scared.
posted by mumimor at 5:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Wait, Willie Nelson has the electrolytes plants crave?
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:35 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:35 PM on January 13, 2017
Joint Statement on Committee Inquiry into Russian Intelligence Activities
WASHINGTON – Senator Richard Burr (R-NC), Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, today issued a joint statement regarding the Committee’s inquiry into Russian intelligence activities.
[...]
The scope of the Committee’s inquiry will include, but is not limited to:
A review of the intelligence that informed the Intelligence Community Assessment “Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections;”
Counterintelligence concerns related to Russia and the 2016 U.S. election, including any intelligence regarding links between Russia and individuals associated with political campaigns;
Russian cyber activity and other “active measures” directed against the U.S., both as it regards the 2016 election and more broadly.
The Committee plans to:
Hold hearings examining Russian intelligence activity;
Interview senior officials of both the outgoing and incoming administrations including the issuance of subpoenas if necessary to compel testimony; and
Produce both classified and unclassified reports on its findings.
posted by scalefree at 5:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
WASHINGTON – Senator Richard Burr (R-NC), Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, today issued a joint statement regarding the Committee’s inquiry into Russian intelligence activities.
[...]
The scope of the Committee’s inquiry will include, but is not limited to:
A review of the intelligence that informed the Intelligence Community Assessment “Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections;”
Counterintelligence concerns related to Russia and the 2016 U.S. election, including any intelligence regarding links between Russia and individuals associated with political campaigns;
Russian cyber activity and other “active measures” directed against the U.S., both as it regards the 2016 election and more broadly.
The Committee plans to:
Hold hearings examining Russian intelligence activity;
Interview senior officials of both the outgoing and incoming administrations including the issuance of subpoenas if necessary to compel testimony; and
Produce both classified and unclassified reports on its findings.
posted by scalefree at 5:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
Shit just got real.
posted by scalefree at 5:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 5:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Re the March and bags: I for sure will be wearing the under-clothes waist pouch thing that I use for running for my valuables (safer from pickpockets anyway), and I guess just stuff some nutrition bars in my pockets and carabiner my water bottle to a belt loop. It's going to be quite warm (for January), it looks like, so less opportunity to fill all my coat pockets up. I'm not trying to antagonize DC cops though so I'm not even going to attempt to parse what an acceptable bag shape/size/opacity is. No bags. Just bigly pockets.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Surely they will hold multiple hearings and spend millions of dollars making sure they get it right.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wait, Willie Nelson has the electrolytes plants crave?
I am willing to venture that Willie, like Zonker Harris, can speak fluently with plants. And for much the same reason.
posted by delfin at 5:45 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
I am willing to venture that Willie, like Zonker Harris, can speak fluently with plants. And for much the same reason.
posted by delfin at 5:45 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
[Sarah Palin] had a brilliant idea to move all the Cabinet departments out of Washington. Why not move the Department of Agriculture to Iowa, she suggested, where somebody who knows something about agriculture could run it. The Secretary of Agriculture is Tom Vilsack. Once, he was a governor. Of Iowa. Oh, dear.posted by kirkaracha at 5:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've never been to a protest before, not a big one, and I've never faced a confrontation with the police (completely due to privilege - I'm white, scrawny, and female) - so I'm not completely sure what to expect or to do. The discussion here has been very helpful. I'm honored to support this as best I can.
(I'm working to overcome my own fear, too. I'd be lying if I said wasn't afraid of being arrested or tear-gassed, because my understanding is similar to corb's - police officers are historically not allies or supporters to protest movements, especially liberal ones. And I'm roughly 5'2 and pretty lightly built, so I'm easy to physically overpower.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
(I'm working to overcome my own fear, too. I'd be lying if I said wasn't afraid of being arrested or tear-gassed, because my understanding is similar to corb's - police officers are historically not allies or supporters to protest movements, especially liberal ones. And I'm roughly 5'2 and pretty lightly built, so I'm easy to physically overpower.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Jason Chaffetz defends warning letter to ethics chief
As we reported, the director of the Office of Government Ethics, Walter Shaub, announced at a press conference on Wednesday that President-elect Donald Trump’s “fix” to his ethics and emoluments clause problems didn’t fix anything....And now, in the wake of Shaub’s announcement, Chaffetz sends the ethics policeman a letter accusing him of unprofessionally blurring politics and ethics guidance. Citing a string of tweets, he demands that Shaub make himself available for the committee to “interview” him (presumably not a public hearing). He slams him for attempting to engage in “public relations.” He also raises at the tail end of the letter Congress’s need to reauthorize the OGE.
What a sleazy fucking asshole.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:49 PM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
As we reported, the director of the Office of Government Ethics, Walter Shaub, announced at a press conference on Wednesday that President-elect Donald Trump’s “fix” to his ethics and emoluments clause problems didn’t fix anything....And now, in the wake of Shaub’s announcement, Chaffetz sends the ethics policeman a letter accusing him of unprofessionally blurring politics and ethics guidance. Citing a string of tweets, he demands that Shaub make himself available for the committee to “interview” him (presumably not a public hearing). He slams him for attempting to engage in “public relations.” He also raises at the tail end of the letter Congress’s need to reauthorize the OGE.
What a sleazy fucking asshole.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:49 PM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
I am willing to venture that Willie, like Zonker Harris, can speak fluently with plants. And for much the same reason.
Well I guess I could get behind that sort of Secretary of Agriculture, but I'm not sure what the rest of the Republicans would think of confirming the Weed Whisperer.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:50 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well I guess I could get behind that sort of Secretary of Agriculture, but I'm not sure what the rest of the Republicans would think of confirming the Weed Whisperer.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:50 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes it's the Senate & we all know how awesome they are. But it's a bipartisan committee which is the first thing I think both parties have come together on in forever so I'll take it over keeping trying it in the press & social media which is really confusing & frustrating & isn't really working because a huge chunk of the country including way too many reporters think it was all cooked up on 4chan.
posted by scalefree at 5:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 5:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
(reminder of the IRL thread of MeFi folks going to the March. in case folks missed it)
posted by armacy at 5:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by armacy at 5:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
What armacy said. I brought my March questions and concerns there because it's something I really want to talk about, without derailing this thread.
posted by Ruki at 5:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ruki at 5:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that the "bipartisan inquiry" ought to be led by the party that didn't potentially just have the reigns of power handed to them by the foreign meddling they're charged with investigating. Does that make sense, or am I still thinking about "conflicts of interest" in outmoded terms?
posted by contraption at 5:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by contraption at 5:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Out of curiosity, where can I find a list of everyone who's playing at the inauguration, so I know who to boycott from now on?
This modified Coachella poster seems to have most of them.
posted by Flashman at 5:57 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
This modified Coachella poster seems to have most of them.
posted by Flashman at 5:57 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump obviously knows nobody qualified to destroy the Department of Agriculture from within.
It's probably one of the few areas where he really has to tread carefully for fear of pissing off a huge part of his base. I work for a county agricultural extension district, and there are a lot of fears that after a few years of falling crop prices we're on the verge of another Farm Crisis. There was recently an active shooter training seminar that we were talking about sending staff to and our farm management specialist specifically cited the possibility of rising anger among farmers fearing a farm crisis in the next few years as a good reason to go to it. If Trump fucks up an Ag Secretary pick or steamrolls smaller farm operations with a policy of graft and more regulatory capture for big agribusiness, or Ryan tries to fuck with SNAP again in the next Farm Bill, things could go poorly for them. This is an area Midwestern Dems NEED to get out in front of.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:58 PM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's probably one of the few areas where he really has to tread carefully for fear of pissing off a huge part of his base. I work for a county agricultural extension district, and there are a lot of fears that after a few years of falling crop prices we're on the verge of another Farm Crisis. There was recently an active shooter training seminar that we were talking about sending staff to and our farm management specialist specifically cited the possibility of rising anger among farmers fearing a farm crisis in the next few years as a good reason to go to it. If Trump fucks up an Ag Secretary pick or steamrolls smaller farm operations with a policy of graft and more regulatory capture for big agribusiness, or Ryan tries to fuck with SNAP again in the next Farm Bill, things could go poorly for them. This is an area Midwestern Dems NEED to get out in front of.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:58 PM on January 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
This modified Coachella poster seems to have most of them.
It's looks like a really soft and sensual lineup.
posted by Jalliah at 6:00 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's looks like a really soft and sensual lineup.
posted by Jalliah at 6:00 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm glad to say I don't recognize most of the other names there.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that the "bipartisan inquiry" ought to be led by the party that didn't potentially just have the reigns of power handed to them by the foreign meddling they're charged with investigating. Does that make sense, or am I still thinking about "conflicts of interest" in outmoded terms?
SSCI is an established committee that's built for this sort of thing (well, nothing's built for THIS sort of thing but it's as close as we have already running) not a newly created vehicle with all the chaos & uncertainty that would entail. This is the Way These Things Are Done in the Senate & we need all the credibility this thing can have as a tailwind.
posted by scalefree at 6:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
SSCI is an established committee that's built for this sort of thing (well, nothing's built for THIS sort of thing but it's as close as we have already running) not a newly created vehicle with all the chaos & uncertainty that would entail. This is the Way These Things Are Done in the Senate & we need all the credibility this thing can have as a tailwind.
posted by scalefree at 6:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
> Trump obviously knows nobody qualified to destroy the Department of Agriculture from within.
All this Ammon Bundy japery might just backfire, I'm sure "what pick are the liberals saying would piss them off the most?" is a big factor in the selection process.
I for one sure hope he doesn't pick that jerk Michael Pollan, boy would that make me mad.
posted by contraption at 6:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
All this Ammon Bundy japery might just backfire, I'm sure "what pick are the liberals saying would piss them off the most?" is a big factor in the selection process.
I for one sure hope he doesn't pick that jerk Michael Pollan, boy would that make me mad.
posted by contraption at 6:05 PM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
His pick will be someone who doesn't go outside, thinks tomatoes grow in 3 weeks, and only eats meal replacement drinks that come in a can.
posted by Jalliah at 6:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 6:10 PM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Here's what the SSCI announcement means to me. It's somebody at the top actually trying to be responsible & not play politics as usual in a time of deep crisis. Yes I realize it's politicians trying not to play politics & that's an oxymoron. Got anything better?
posted by scalefree at 6:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 6:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think realistically it will be one of:
1) Whoever the CEO of ConAgra recommends
2) The CEO of ConAgra (his choice whether to step down or do both jobs concurrently)
posted by contraption at 6:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
1) Whoever the CEO of ConAgra recommends
2) The CEO of ConAgra (his choice whether to step down or do both jobs concurrently)
posted by contraption at 6:14 PM on January 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, uh, Steve King has an actual model of a border wall (or some kind of wall) in his office. Photo.
(Yes, the "What is this? A wall for ANTS?" joke has already been taken, sorry.)
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
(Yes, the "What is this? A wall for ANTS?" joke has already been taken, sorry.)
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The US Forest service is a department of the USDA, which manages 25% of all federal lands, including the national forests, grasslands, wilderness areas, etc.
posted by ThreeCatsBob at 6:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ThreeCatsBob at 6:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Omg,that gallery of President Obama. I wept, literally wept, at the thought of the short fingered vulgarian sitting in that chair, or touching that desk, it makes me weep for all that we have lost. Grace, charm, intellect, compassion, family values, human decency, all things that leave the White House when the Obama's wave their way onto the helicopter. God help us all.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [22 favorites]
The Secretary of Agriculture will be a fiberglass sculpture of a corn ear filled with weevils, smut, and rust.
posted by benzenedream at 6:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 6:20 PM on January 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, uh, Steve King has an actual model of a border wall (or some kind of wall) in his office. Photo.
(Yes, the "What is this? A wall for ANTS?" joke has already been taken, sorry.)
How about:
David St. Hubbins: I do not, for one, think that the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem *may* have been, that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being *crushed* by a *dwarf*. Alright? That tended to understate the hugeness of the object.
Ian Faith: I really think you're just making much too big a thing out of it.
Derek Smalls: Making a big thing out of it would have been a good idea.
posted by chris24 at 6:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
(Yes, the "What is this? A wall for ANTS?" joke has already been taken, sorry.)
How about:
David St. Hubbins: I do not, for one, think that the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem *may* have been, that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being *crushed* by a *dwarf*. Alright? That tended to understate the hugeness of the object.
Ian Faith: I really think you're just making much too big a thing out of it.
Derek Smalls: Making a big thing out of it would have been a good idea.
posted by chris24 at 6:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
To distract myself from the horror, I like to ponder the small, strange moments this thread brings to me. Like:
That wall model is pretty hilarious, like a half arsed primary school project, all out of scale and whatnot. I wonder who made it? Does he have a kid he made do it? A junior member of staff? I have so many questions. Did the kid doing work experience there have to do it and write some kind of report for school about what s/he got up to while on work experience? Someone should write that.
And:
Trump's pick for Secretary of Agriculture? Def going to be some kind of pornmonger who owns a site called something like "Porn Farm".
Also:
I have loved seeing the Obama galleries, but I can't help imagining the equivalent Trump galleries. I imagine him grinning at the camera in every single one; or angling to see his reflection; sitting in an Oval Office he's redecorated in giltzy oligarch revival, every surface shimmering with poorly applied fake gold, a golden bust of Trump himself leering at the viewer from behind the desk; posing with young, tightly smiling female staffers while he leers, his hands hidden from view.
Or:
Wouldn't it be good if there was a Trump mafia name generator, like those elf name generators that were so cool back in the late 90s. I've been calling him Donnie "Small Hands" Trump, but it could be a fun game, like the ones that come up with alternate names for Bendict Cumberbatch (Bubblebath Cutiemark is my favourite).
posted by glitter at 6:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
That wall model is pretty hilarious, like a half arsed primary school project, all out of scale and whatnot. I wonder who made it? Does he have a kid he made do it? A junior member of staff? I have so many questions. Did the kid doing work experience there have to do it and write some kind of report for school about what s/he got up to while on work experience? Someone should write that.
And:
Trump's pick for Secretary of Agriculture? Def going to be some kind of pornmonger who owns a site called something like "Porn Farm".
Also:
I have loved seeing the Obama galleries, but I can't help imagining the equivalent Trump galleries. I imagine him grinning at the camera in every single one; or angling to see his reflection; sitting in an Oval Office he's redecorated in giltzy oligarch revival, every surface shimmering with poorly applied fake gold, a golden bust of Trump himself leering at the viewer from behind the desk; posing with young, tightly smiling female staffers while he leers, his hands hidden from view.
Or:
Wouldn't it be good if there was a Trump mafia name generator, like those elf name generators that were so cool back in the late 90s. I've been calling him Donnie "Small Hands" Trump, but it could be a fun game, like the ones that come up with alternate names for Bendict Cumberbatch (Bubblebath Cutiemark is my favourite).
posted by glitter at 6:33 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Secretary of Agriculture will be in an empty Walmart. Paying the fee to the gatekeeper, the supplicant enters a vast and echoing chamber. At the center, half-illuminated by a sickly beam from the shattered skylight above is a GMO chicken, faceless and capable of no sensation but pure suffering, floating in a tank of glyphosate and avian flu.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
So, uh, Steve King has an actual model of a border wall (or some kind of wall) in his office.
Doing my district proud there, you gross flesh-colored Grover puppet.
Steve King is EXACTLY who I have in mind when I talk about Dems getting out ahead of pending-farm-crisis fears. If Trump and the Republican congress fumble on ag concerns and make things worse, which is likely, especially with the multiplying effects of poor solutions overall for the economy and a desire to fuck up everyone's healthcare, there absolutely needs to be a Democrat challenger out here holding town halls in places like Moville and Primghar and Rock Valley pointing the finger directly at King, because King is a fucking idiot who can't respond with a coherent sentence if a challenger gets down in the dirt and details. Don't start running an afterthought candidate in the next election year, get someone out there now to start raising hell and making relationships. It's a unique moment in this corner of rural America, you've got growing consensus about raising taxes (!!!) to improve rural infrastructure to benefit farmers, lots of fear and uncertainty about the next couple years, and - honestly - a demographic of farmers largely ok with government intervention as long as it helps them make ends meet (cue video of Steve King grandstanding in hip waders in Missouri River floodwaters in 2011 pitching a fit about not getting all the federal disaster relief money he isn't ok with anyone else getting).
posted by jason_steakums at 6:35 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Doing my district proud there, you gross flesh-colored Grover puppet.
Steve King is EXACTLY who I have in mind when I talk about Dems getting out ahead of pending-farm-crisis fears. If Trump and the Republican congress fumble on ag concerns and make things worse, which is likely, especially with the multiplying effects of poor solutions overall for the economy and a desire to fuck up everyone's healthcare, there absolutely needs to be a Democrat challenger out here holding town halls in places like Moville and Primghar and Rock Valley pointing the finger directly at King, because King is a fucking idiot who can't respond with a coherent sentence if a challenger gets down in the dirt and details. Don't start running an afterthought candidate in the next election year, get someone out there now to start raising hell and making relationships. It's a unique moment in this corner of rural America, you've got growing consensus about raising taxes (!!!) to improve rural infrastructure to benefit farmers, lots of fear and uncertainty about the next couple years, and - honestly - a demographic of farmers largely ok with government intervention as long as it helps them make ends meet (cue video of Steve King grandstanding in hip waders in Missouri River floodwaters in 2011 pitching a fit about not getting all the federal disaster relief money he isn't ok with anyone else getting).
posted by jason_steakums at 6:35 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
For trans people, Obama opened a window. We're terrified Trump will slam it shut
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The CEO of Soylent would be perfect for Trump's Agriculture!
Making America Silent Running Again.
posted by Yowser at 6:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Making America Silent Running Again.
posted by Yowser at 6:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Biden: not Slytherin ... not Slytherin
Obama: Joe, this isn't--
Biden: ... not Slytherin ...
Obama: you know what, Gryffindor
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Obama: Joe, this isn't--
Biden: ... not Slytherin ...
Obama: you know what, Gryffindor
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
(I keep hoping the next challenger to Steve King is Iowa State Rep Chris Hall if he's up for it)
posted by jason_steakums at 6:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump officials might be expecting E.U. to fall apart this year, U.S. envoy says
posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team may be expecting the European Union to fall apart this year, the outgoing U.S. ambassador to the 28-nation bloc said Friday, saying that the incoming U.S. administration may add to the burdens of an already struggling union.Expecting, or actively trying to encourage it?
Trump officials risk “lunacy” if they choose to support the fragmentation of Europe, Ambassador Anthony Gardner said in an unusually frank exit discussion with reporters. Gardner is an ally of President Obama who has been forced to resign, along with all other political ambassadorial appointees, on Jan. 20.
...
In transition officials’ calls with E.U. leaders, their first question was, Gardner said, “What country is about to leave next after the U.K.?”
posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on January 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Expecting, because they have inside information from Daddy Vlad about his plans?
posted by palomar at 6:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by palomar at 6:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Guys guys guys. You're thinking too small. Here's my prediction (prophesy?) for Trump's choice to lead the Department of Agriculture:
When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; but do not damage the oil and the wine.” Revelation 6:5-6posted by scalefree at 6:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
That time when you're watching and alien invasion tv show and you find yourself wondering about what if aliens invaded this Sunday would that postpone the inauguration? How would it all work? And then you realize that the chance that Trump would tweet something about Obama and the Democrats being part of an intergalactic conspiracy to keep him from being President is not 0%.
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's what the SSCI announcement means to me. It's somebody at the top actually trying to be responsible & not play politics as usual in a time of deep crisis.
File perhaps under straw-clutching, but while Chaffetz is ensuring that his beloved daughter will be ashamed of him, nobody from the GOP who met with Comey today offered an immediate counter-narrative to the public anger and discontent of Dems. Instead, there was silence.
posted by holgate at 6:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
File perhaps under straw-clutching, but while Chaffetz is ensuring that his beloved daughter will be ashamed of him, nobody from the GOP who met with Comey today offered an immediate counter-narrative to the public anger and discontent of Dems. Instead, there was silence.
posted by holgate at 6:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
The thing that gives me hope in the SSCI press release is "The Committee will follow the intelligence wherever it leads."
That reads like a direct shot across the bow of the Trumptanic.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
That reads like a direct shot across the bow of the Trumptanic.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
It would be funny if the Republicans repealed Obamacare so fast that Obama had one last chance to veto it.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:55 PM on January 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
Has there ever been a President under congressional investigation before he's even officially in office? I'm guessing no.
posted by chris24 at 6:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
A Hungarian Beauty Queen Said That Trump Invited Her To His Moscow Hotel Room
She said in May 2016 on a Hungarian tv show that in 2013, Trump grabbed her hand, pulled him toward her, and told her what hotel and room he was staying. As Ben Smith of Buzzfeed notes, this is not how you'd behave if you're being extra-careful in Moscow because you think there are cameras everywhere.
posted by zachlipton at 6:57 PM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
She said in May 2016 on a Hungarian tv show that in 2013, Trump grabbed her hand, pulled him toward her, and told her what hotel and room he was staying. As Ben Smith of Buzzfeed notes, this is not how you'd behave if you're being extra-careful in Moscow because you think there are cameras everywhere.
posted by zachlipton at 6:57 PM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
I have feelings about the Smithsonian (as a geeky kid, I always wanted to go every time we stopped in DC but there was always a reason why we couldn't go to any of the museums. My parents went the first time they went to D.C. without me and I'm still a little salty about that, even though I've been a couple of times since). And I wonder about the First Lady exhibit. Whose Inaugural gown is going to be displayed? Melania or Ivanka?
On a related note, I hate the amount of slut shaming Melania has been subjected to from my liberal FB friends. Yes, yes, she posed nude, but if the backlash was bad for Vanessa Williams, it's bad for Melania Trump, too. I mean, yeah, she's complicit in all this, but the slut shaming is still sexist AF.
posted by Ruki at 7:01 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
On a related note, I hate the amount of slut shaming Melania has been subjected to from my liberal FB friends. Yes, yes, she posed nude, but if the backlash was bad for Vanessa Williams, it's bad for Melania Trump, too. I mean, yeah, she's complicit in all this, but the slut shaming is still sexist AF.
posted by Ruki at 7:01 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The thing that gives me hope in the SSCI press release is "The Committee will follow the intelligence wherever it leads."
From Warner's section of the release: "This issue impacts the foundations of our democratic system, it’s that important[...]If it turns out that SSCI cannot properly conduct this investigation, I will support legislation to empower whoever can do it right."
posted by scalefree at 7:01 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
From Warner's section of the release: "This issue impacts the foundations of our democratic system, it’s that important[...]If it turns out that SSCI cannot properly conduct this investigation, I will support legislation to empower whoever can do it right."
posted by scalefree at 7:01 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Putin has far right candidates in bother the French and German elections. A victory for either would probably be a mortal blow to the EU.
posted by Artw at 7:04 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:04 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sorry, I'll drop my latest flood of Steve King posts soon but it's driving me crazy... WHY DO YOU NEED A MODEL OF A WALL? Are you having trouble visualizing a wall? Is this an object permanence thing, can you not hold the concept in your mind if it's not right there in front of you? What did that conversation consist of? "Hmm, yes, it's ingenious when you see it, hard to climb OR jump! And because it has so little in the way of depth, material costs largely go to making it wide and high, so efficient! And what is this, a second layer of defense? Is that wire barbed? Why, Houdini himself couldn't escape with this in his way!"? GAAAH.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
HOLY CROW I JUST REALIZED THAT I AM PROUD OF MIKE LOVE (of the Beach Boys).
posted by armacy at 7:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by armacy at 7:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Back from the grocery store. Huge headline on the Enquirer or some such asswipe: CROOKED HILARY WILL DIE IN JAIL
these are my countrypersons, the people who that headline is written to titillate and please.....it makes me so tired. I don't know how I'm going to get through this.
posted by thelonius at 7:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
these are my countrypersons, the people who that headline is written to titillate and please.....it makes me so tired. I don't know how I'm going to get through this.
posted by thelonius at 7:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hey hey we're the Nazis, and people say we Nazi around
posted by scalefree at 7:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 7:13 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Back from the grocery store. Huge headline on the Enquirer or some such asswipe: CROOKED HILARY WILL DIE IN JAIL
I saw an Enquirer today in line at the store that was all about some Trump/Russia alliance against China on the cover - you'd think the National Enquirer wouldn't be credible, but considering the rag's relationship to Trump I figure this is probably exactly how Donnie's going to try and swing the Russia thing, have Tillerson go full bore on antagonizing China until they respond militarily and try to spin the Russians as our allies in this fight just like in dubya dubya two.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I saw an Enquirer today in line at the store that was all about some Trump/Russia alliance against China on the cover - you'd think the National Enquirer wouldn't be credible, but considering the rag's relationship to Trump I figure this is probably exactly how Donnie's going to try and swing the Russia thing, have Tillerson go full bore on antagonizing China until they respond militarily and try to spin the Russians as our allies in this fight just like in dubya dubya two.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Back from the grocery store. Huge headline on the Enquirer or some such asswipe: CROOKED HILARY WILL DIE IN JAIL
these are my countrypersons, the people who that headline is written to titillate and please.....it makes me so tired. I don't know how I'm going to get through this.
Try to take some comfort that if it is then Enquirer they're buddy buddy with Trump and that headlines like this would be happening because things are not going well for him right now. For the last while they've been doing a lot of Trump is so so awesome headlines and stories. Now the things are going sideways it's back to Hillary.
posted by Jalliah at 7:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
these are my countrypersons, the people who that headline is written to titillate and please.....it makes me so tired. I don't know how I'm going to get through this.
Try to take some comfort that if it is then Enquirer they're buddy buddy with Trump and that headlines like this would be happening because things are not going well for him right now. For the last while they've been doing a lot of Trump is so so awesome headlines and stories. Now the things are going sideways it's back to Hillary.
posted by Jalliah at 7:16 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Huge headline on the Enquirer or some such asswipe
In the last couple of weeks they had "Trump finally bringing dignity back to the White House" and I almost lost my shit right there in the store. If I wasn't so crushed and still had the energy I would have.
posted by bongo_x at 7:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
In the last couple of weeks they had "Trump finally bringing dignity back to the White House" and I almost lost my shit right there in the store. If I wasn't so crushed and still had the energy I would have.
posted by bongo_x at 7:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
So I'm reading an open tab from this morning with this NYTimes story ("How a Sensational, Unverified Dossier Became a Crisis for Donald Trump"), and the main impression I get from it is just how much the media was in the tank for Republicans and opposed to Hillary Clinton.
Just consider this bit: "Remarkably for Washington, many reporters for competing news organizations had the salacious and damning memos, but they did not leak, because their contents could not be confirmed." Really? Since when has lack of confirmation held back news media from discussing the latest Clinton pseudo-scandal?
Or is this just another illustration of the fact that Republicans are willing to loudly repeat any innuendo or rumor that comes their way, and the news media feels compelled to run with the story about how Republicans are talking about the latest Clinton non-story?
If that's what it is (and yes, why not both, of course), then (a) Republicans have successfully hacked the media - well done! But also (b) why weren't knowledgeable Democrats loudly whispering about the contents of this dossier before the election? Why didn't the DNC hack just reveal thousands of emails discussing possible video of Russians bribing Trump with golden showers? ... Because that would have been a rather different story.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
Just consider this bit: "Remarkably for Washington, many reporters for competing news organizations had the salacious and damning memos, but they did not leak, because their contents could not be confirmed." Really? Since when has lack of confirmation held back news media from discussing the latest Clinton pseudo-scandal?
Or is this just another illustration of the fact that Republicans are willing to loudly repeat any innuendo or rumor that comes their way, and the news media feels compelled to run with the story about how Republicans are talking about the latest Clinton non-story?
If that's what it is (and yes, why not both, of course), then (a) Republicans have successfully hacked the media - well done! But also (b) why weren't knowledgeable Democrats loudly whispering about the contents of this dossier before the election? Why didn't the DNC hack just reveal thousands of emails discussing possible video of Russians bribing Trump with golden showers? ... Because that would have been a rather different story.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
I wonder if Steve King has models of other bits of proposed legislation somewhere in his office. He could, for example, have a little model of a gutter, for the uninsured to die in. Or perhaps a model of a closed abortion clinic. He would not, however, have a model of the White House, because, as our first lady pointed out earlier this year, non-white people worked on it (forcibly, naturally), and he only recognizes white contributions to civilization.
posted by zachlipton at 7:21 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:21 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
And there's the exact phrase I was looking for, "catapult the propaganda" (23 seconds, will fill you with the warm glow of nostalgia). Republicans are just that much better at it?
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
> File perhaps under straw-clutching, but while Chaffetz is ensuring that his beloved daughter will be ashamed of him, nobody from the GOP who met with Comey today offered an immediate counter-narrative to the public anger and discontent of Dems.
Hey, what are you supposed to do when you've slipped off the edge of the cliff and see a clump of straw sticking out?
posted by contraption at 7:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey, what are you supposed to do when you've slipped off the edge of the cliff and see a clump of straw sticking out?
posted by contraption at 7:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Christopher Steele, the former MI6 agent who investigated Donald Trump’s alleged Kremlin links, was so worried by what he was discovering that at the end he was working without pay, The Independent has learned
...However, say security sources, Mr Steele became increasingly frustrated that the FBI was failing to take action on the intelligence from others as well as him. He came to believe there was a cover-up, that a cabal within the Bureau blocked a thorough inquiry into Mr Trump, focusing instead on the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails.
It is believed that a colleague of Mr Steele in Washington, Glenn Simpson, a former Wall Street Journal reporter who runs the firm Fusion GPS, felt the same way and, at the end also continued with the Trump case without being paid.
In the same month Mr Steele produced a memo, which went to the FBI, stating that Mr Trump’s campaign team had agreed to a Russian request to dilute attention on Moscow’s intervention in Ukraine. Four days later Mr Trump stated that he would recognise Moscow’s annexation of Crimea. A month later officials involved in his campaign asked the Republican party’s election platform to remove a pledge for military assistance to the Ukrainian government against separatist rebels in the east of the country.
Mr Steele claimed that the Trump campaign was taking this path because it was aware that the Russians were hacking Democratic Party emails. No evidence of this has been made public, but the same day that Mr Trump spoke about Crimea he called on the Kremlin to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails.
Holy crap. I want to copy/paste/bold the whole article. This is billed as an exclusive and has a bunch of stuff that I hadn't seen before.
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [75 favorites]
...However, say security sources, Mr Steele became increasingly frustrated that the FBI was failing to take action on the intelligence from others as well as him. He came to believe there was a cover-up, that a cabal within the Bureau blocked a thorough inquiry into Mr Trump, focusing instead on the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails.
It is believed that a colleague of Mr Steele in Washington, Glenn Simpson, a former Wall Street Journal reporter who runs the firm Fusion GPS, felt the same way and, at the end also continued with the Trump case without being paid.
In the same month Mr Steele produced a memo, which went to the FBI, stating that Mr Trump’s campaign team had agreed to a Russian request to dilute attention on Moscow’s intervention in Ukraine. Four days later Mr Trump stated that he would recognise Moscow’s annexation of Crimea. A month later officials involved in his campaign asked the Republican party’s election platform to remove a pledge for military assistance to the Ukrainian government against separatist rebels in the east of the country.
Mr Steele claimed that the Trump campaign was taking this path because it was aware that the Russians were hacking Democratic Party emails. No evidence of this has been made public, but the same day that Mr Trump spoke about Crimea he called on the Kremlin to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails.
Holy crap. I want to copy/paste/bold the whole article. This is billed as an exclusive and has a bunch of stuff that I hadn't seen before.
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [75 favorites]
If it is only 20% true it is damning as hell.
posted by futz at 7:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by futz at 7:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I was just thinking about the EU today, and wondering if Trump was making any Europeans rethink getting out. If the EU were to break up how does anyone think they wouldn't be totally fucked?
posted by bongo_x at 7:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bongo_x at 7:30 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is it just me or is The Independent's overall journalistic style what you'd get if Kurt Eichenwald was allowed to write an entire newspaper?
posted by zachlipton at 7:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:31 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
So.
This coming week.
This is what is meant by 'interesting times' right?
posted by Jalliah at 7:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dukakis: Trump 'ought to get off that Twitter thing'
posted by zachlipton at 7:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Beyond interesting, this is riveting (as in a rivet to the chest).
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:38 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is what is meant by 'interesting times' right?
It's what's meant by a Seldon crisis
posted by thelonius at 7:39 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's what's meant by a Seldon crisis
posted by thelonius at 7:39 PM on January 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
I've been in a near-constant state of "You've got to be fucking kidding me" since Election Day.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is billed as an exclusive and has a bunch of stuff that I hadn't seen before.
The Indy is owned by Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a former KGB officer who worked in London to prevent capital flight during the Soviet era, then went into the banking business himself. It's a weird thing now: digital-only, so pretty clickbaity, and second fiddle to the London Evening Standard in the Lebedev portfolio, but occasionally journalism happens. Kim Sengupta is a veteran reporter in that field (and was with the Indy pre-Lebedev) and knows his shit.
I wonder if Steve King has models of other bits of proposed legislation somewhere in his office.
Maybe he has a tiny whip and noose to go with his little desk dixieflag.
posted by holgate at 7:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Indy is owned by Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a former KGB officer who worked in London to prevent capital flight during the Soviet era, then went into the banking business himself. It's a weird thing now: digital-only, so pretty clickbaity, and second fiddle to the London Evening Standard in the Lebedev portfolio, but occasionally journalism happens. Kim Sengupta is a veteran reporter in that field (and was with the Indy pre-Lebedev) and knows his shit.
I wonder if Steve King has models of other bits of proposed legislation somewhere in his office.
Maybe he has a tiny whip and noose to go with his little desk dixieflag.
posted by holgate at 7:42 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe it's just perfect timing for the premiere of Netflix’s A Series of Unfortunate Events.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:46 PM on January 13, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:46 PM on January 13, 2017
Beyond interesting, this is riveting (as in a rivet to the chest).
I'm trying to get my head around how this is going to effect US relations with the rest of the world. It's soft power political capital is being decimated regardless of what happens. I'm trying to come up with historical equivalents but I can't think of anything right now.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
So Rudy's thoroughly in the frame now. Good.
Will this affect the anit-EU forces in Europe? I think that, if the most rabid anti-EU newspapers are trying to smear Steele (for being a socialist at university, that noted crime), someone somewhere thinks so. Also good.
The SSCI seems to agree that whatever happened between Trump and Russia has to come out, because it's a credible threat to American democracy if not investigated. If it's a nothingburger, that has to be shown. If it's a towering inferno of satanic shit (spoiler: it is), that has to be shown too - and what happens then is TBD. Good, too.
That's three good things in a row. Definitely time for bed.
posted by Devonian at 7:48 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Will this affect the anit-EU forces in Europe? I think that, if the most rabid anti-EU newspapers are trying to smear Steele (for being a socialist at university, that noted crime), someone somewhere thinks so. Also good.
The SSCI seems to agree that whatever happened between Trump and Russia has to come out, because it's a credible threat to American democracy if not investigated. If it's a nothingburger, that has to be shown. If it's a towering inferno of satanic shit (spoiler: it is), that has to be shown too - and what happens then is TBD. Good, too.
That's three good things in a row. Definitely time for bed.
posted by Devonian at 7:48 PM on January 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Melania Trump Has Plans to Put a Glam Room in the White House
Donald Trump is moving into the White House in just a few days, and according to Melania’s longtime makeup artist Nicole Bryl, the pair has got some pretty extensive decorating changes in mind. If things go as planned, high-school students of the future can look forward to touring such historic spaces as the Lincoln Bedroom, the Roosevelt Room, and, of course, the Melania Trump Glam Room.
“There will absolutely be a room designated for hair, makeup, and wardrobe,” Bryl told Us Weekly, adding that it takes “about one hour and 15 minutes of uninterrupted focus” to complete Melania’s beauty look.
posted by futz at 7:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump is moving into the White House in just a few days, and according to Melania’s longtime makeup artist Nicole Bryl, the pair has got some pretty extensive decorating changes in mind. If things go as planned, high-school students of the future can look forward to touring such historic spaces as the Lincoln Bedroom, the Roosevelt Room, and, of course, the Melania Trump Glam Room.
“There will absolutely be a room designated for hair, makeup, and wardrobe,” Bryl told Us Weekly, adding that it takes “about one hour and 15 minutes of uninterrupted focus” to complete Melania’s beauty look.
posted by futz at 7:51 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Angering Congress, James Comey won't address Trump-Russia inquiry privately
posted by scalefree at 8:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
One source in the meeting said Comey would not answer “basic questions” about the FBI’s current investigative activities. The FBI chief was grilled “over and over again”, according to the source, about his standards for acknowledging FBI investigations, with legislators repeatedly bringing up Comey’s dramatic public confirmation that the bureau was revisiting classification issues with Hillary Clinton’s private email server days before the election, as well as his summer press conference announcing that he would not seek indictment.Prediction: Comey ends up in jail over this. It's a longshot but I'm laying down a marker on it.
posted by scalefree at 8:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
i'm very frustrated by all the blather about cyber, election interference, spy dossiers, etc etc etc. none of that should matter as much as the undeniable fact that TRUMP IS DEMENTED. all you have to do is watch and listen to him. like for the entirety of his campaign its been glaringly obvious he is suffering from some kind of severe personality disorder, staggering insecurity, does not apprehend the same reality as 99% of humanity, AND FOR FUCKS SAKE THE GUY IS BONKERS. BANANAS. i want to shriek in disbelief at people who say "give him a chance". if ted bundy had wanted to date your daughter would you want to give him a chance? this, for me, is the most disturbing thing: large portions of americans appear to have come unhinged from reality, besotted with consumerism, drowning in televised infotainment, guzzling lethal doses of facebook, twitter, and hollywood fecal matter. incurious, half-literate apathetics stunted by an education system that just passed them up the line. can nobody actually see the man is a raving lunatic? that nothing really matters beyond this actuality - TRUMP IS A LUNATIC.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [112 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [112 favorites]
large portions of americans appear to have come unhinged from reality,
Yes, and Donald Trump is the perfect person to represent them. A (partial) nation of lunatics.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, and Donald Trump is the perfect person to represent them. A (partial) nation of lunatics.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:12 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
All those women who accused Trump of sexual assault, they didn't go away after the election and they're stuck with this nightmare. Natasha Stoynoff spoke out about Trump. Now, she’s talking about the aftermath
posted by zachlipton at 8:15 PM on January 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
Given your exposure during the campaign, how did news that he’d won land?People didn't care. Or for some, maybe they cared a bit, but having a President who doesn't commit sexual assault ranked lower on their priority list than a tax cut or taking away health care from millions or sticking it to people who are different or whatever.
I think it cut deeper because I had made myself vulnerable by writing what I wrote, and then he attacked me. I was hoping to inform Americans about him with my story, but it didn’t really matter to many. I think that’s what hurt the most. There may be people out there who didn’t believe my story or the [stories of] other women. And there may be people who did, but just didn’t care. So they have different priorities. There are things more important to them in a president than if he grabs women when he’s alone with them.
posted by zachlipton at 8:15 PM on January 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
I JUST REALIZED THAT I AM PROUD OF MIKE LOVE
Good heavens, why? Has he done something in the last 4 decades to be proud of?
posted by jackbishop at 8:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Good heavens, why? Has he done something in the last 4 decades to be proud of?
posted by jackbishop at 8:18 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
i'm very frustrated by all the blather about cyber, election interference, spy dossiers, etc etc etc. none of that should matter as much as the undeniable fact that TRUMP IS DEMENTED.
TRUMP IS A LUNATIC.
I think that you are preaching to choir here. Plus those dossiers and everything you mentioned are how donnie gets taken down obviously so those are actually more important than screaming that he is a lunatic.
posted by futz at 8:20 PM on January 13, 2017
TRUMP IS A LUNATIC.
I think that you are preaching to choir here. Plus those dossiers and everything you mentioned are how donnie gets taken down obviously so those are actually more important than screaming that he is a lunatic.
posted by futz at 8:20 PM on January 13, 2017
There's a Twitter thread that details an unfortunate series of coincidences re: a specific item in the dossier.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:23 PM on January 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
The Sengupta piece covers old ground on the FBI, but it ties up the idea that at a minimum the NYC office was rogue and in direct contact with RudyBSD 6.4.911. Comey isn't willing to talk about it, I'd venture, because doing so would either involve lying or admitting that a bunch of his agents are still assembling a Crooked Hillary case while refreshing Breitbart and Infowars every three minutes.
they didn't go away after the election and they're stuck with this nightmare.
Countries will be accepting political asylum seekers from the US sooner than later.
posted by holgate at 8:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
they didn't go away after the election and they're stuck with this nightmare.
Countries will be accepting political asylum seekers from the US sooner than later.
posted by holgate at 8:25 PM on January 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
While it is hard to disagree with a person with a fish in his pants, I find that I must. I don't know that he's a lunatic. I think he has been accurately described as "some rich asshole." But I'm not sure that it really matters. Whether lunatic or asshole those traits were clearly on display during the primaries and the general election and his obvious lack of qualifications did not matter to a sizable portion of the electorate. I think that all of this stuff about the "cyber" matters because some of this information might reach through to some of the low information voters who went Trump. The hard-core deplorables won't care because Trump isn't a minority or a woman. But in her basket of deplorables statement Hillary said that half of his supporters were the disaffected and I think that a lot of them could still pull their heads out. But that's me at my most optimistic at this point.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:26 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reagans brain got cores out by altzheimers and nobody cared, but he wasn't surrounded by the likes of Flynn and Bannon and very obviously under the thumb of a foreign power. Maybe that's makes a difference. Maybe.
posted by Artw at 8:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:28 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Iowans I interviewed largely went about their lives outside the political hothouse of social media. They did not follow hour-by-hour developments of the presidential transition. Indeed, on Wednesday, several were unfamiliar with the reports that Russia was holding compromising information on the president-elect, which Mr. Trump addressed in a news conference.
Many were hazy on specific policy details about how, say, House Republicans were seeking to replace Medicare with a voucher system. These voters feared an outbreak of European-style terrorist attacks by Muslims in the United States, maybe in their own communities. And overwhelmingly, Trump supporters did not want their hard-earned money redistributed to people they regarded as undeserving.
posted by theodolite at 8:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
Many were hazy on specific policy details about how, say, House Republicans were seeking to replace Medicare with a voucher system. These voters feared an outbreak of European-style terrorist attacks by Muslims in the United States, maybe in their own communities. And overwhelmingly, Trump supporters did not want their hard-earned money redistributed to people they regarded as undeserving.
posted by theodolite at 8:32 PM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
There's a Twitter thread that details an unfortunate series of coincidences re: a specific item in the dossier.
Yeah I read about the dead Russian guy earlier today and all I could think was holy crap this really is techno thriller come to life and I don't like it one bit.
posted by Jalliah at 8:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah I read about the dead Russian guy earlier today and all I could think was holy crap this really is techno thriller come to life and I don't like it one bit.
posted by Jalliah at 8:34 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
*running up, panting*
I thought half of one song pretty much was their career.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn! Somebody check that crater, there may be a Krypton baby in it!
*FM radio tuning noises*
posted by petebest at 8:41 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I thought half of one song pretty much was their career.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn! Somebody check that crater, there may be a Krypton baby in it!
*FM radio tuning noises*
posted by petebest at 8:41 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Two dead guys, same day.
Yeesh. With the one dead guy I was fairly firmly in the ' that's creepy, but could really be a coincidence so won't put tons of credence on it meaning anything ' camp.
Two dead guys in their car on the same day? Err...
posted by Jalliah at 8:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeesh. With the one dead guy I was fairly firmly in the ' that's creepy, but could really be a coincidence so won't put tons of credence on it meaning anything ' camp.
Two dead guys in their car on the same day? Err...
posted by Jalliah at 8:43 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Iowans I interviewed largely went about their lives outside the political hothouse of social media.
I knew Trump voters were mostly old white guys, but DAMN look at those old white guys.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 8:45 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I knew Trump voters were mostly old white guys, but DAMN look at those old white guys.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 8:45 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
And the "Clinton Death Toll" has turned into ANOTHER example of Trump's Mirror.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:53 PM on January 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
That scale model of 'the wall' was probably commissioned by a contractor to curry favour to get the/a contract.
I'm supremely curious as to whoever commissioned that was a 'lowest bid' who's specs would fail within a year or two, or a legitimate contractor with specs that don't take into account the resurgence of acid rain the their 30-year projected lifetime of the concrete - which will start to fail in 4 to 5.
Or someone with a new formulation in concrete where a scale wall of those dimensions are architecturally sound? I doubt it, but
posted by porpoise at 8:58 PM on January 13, 2017
I'm supremely curious as to whoever commissioned that was a 'lowest bid' who's specs would fail within a year or two, or a legitimate contractor with specs that don't take into account the resurgence of acid rain the their 30-year projected lifetime of the concrete - which will start to fail in 4 to 5.
Or someone with a new formulation in concrete where a scale wall of those dimensions are architecturally sound? I doubt it, but
posted by porpoise at 8:58 PM on January 13, 2017
The mystery behind Port-a-Pottygate has been solved:
posted by peeedro at 8:59 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Architect of the Capitol is taking responsibility, and says the government did it to bring the toilets into compliance with the Capitol’s restrictions on advertising.I've peed in many a port-a-potty on the national mall and have never seen the names covered over like that, but there are super stringent rules about signage, branding, and advertisements on the Mall so new normal and all that.
“The AOC is in the process of covering or removing signage on the portable toilets to bring them into compliance with Capitol Grounds restrictions on advertising,” said Justin Kieffer, spokesman for the Architect of the Capitol.
posted by peeedro at 8:59 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Except that Don's Johns provided toilets for the 2009 and 2013 inaugurations and nobody found it necessary to tape over their name then.
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 PM on January 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
That scale model of 'the wall' was probably commissioned by a contractor to curry favour to get the/a contract.
I'm supremely curious as to whoever commissioned that was a 'lowest bid' who's specs would fail within a year or two, or a legitimate contractor with specs that don't take into account the resurgence of acid rain the their 30-year projected lifetime of the concrete - which will start to fail in 4 to 5.
Or someone with a new formulation in concrete where a scale wall of those dimensions are architecturally sound? I doubt it, but
I mean it's Trump making deals for concrete, it's probably the mob.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:06 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm supremely curious as to whoever commissioned that was a 'lowest bid' who's specs would fail within a year or two, or a legitimate contractor with specs that don't take into account the resurgence of acid rain the their 30-year projected lifetime of the concrete - which will start to fail in 4 to 5.
Or someone with a new formulation in concrete where a scale wall of those dimensions are architecturally sound? I doubt it, but
I mean it's Trump making deals for concrete, it's probably the mob.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:06 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
That scale model of 'the wall' was probably commissioned by a contractor to curry favour to get the/a contract.
What makes you so sure it's a scale model? Could be the real wall, as it ends up.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
What makes you so sure it's a scale model? Could be the real wall, as it ends up.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
What makes you so sure it's a scale model? Could be the real wall, as it ends up.
And oh, how they danced!
posted by dirigibleman at 9:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
And oh, how they danced!
posted by dirigibleman at 9:11 PM on January 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
10 times Donald Trump’s cabinet picks directly disputed him [Toronto Star]
There's really no legal recourse, is there, if they just renege on their positions a few weeks from now? Cynical AF politics.
posted by porpoise at 9:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's really no legal recourse, is there, if they just renege on their positions a few weeks from now? Cynical AF politics.
posted by porpoise at 9:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Please people, bring little printouts of Trump's face to drop in the Don's Johns.
posted by bongo_x at 9:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 9:44 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
RobotVoodooPower: There's a Twitter thread that details an unfortunate series of coincidences re: a specific item in the dossier
I wanted to put all the pieces on a timeline with some other public info:
(A reminder that Rosneft = Russian state-owned oil company)
July 7th or 8th - Carter Page allegedly met with Rosnet's president Igor Sechin who, the dossier alleges, "offered Page/Trump associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatised) stake in Rosneft" (19% = worth roughly $11 Billion) "Page had expressed interest and confirmed that were Trump elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted."
July 14-15 - RNC rules committee convenes, in which Trump associates are alleged to intervene and remove language regarding the defense of Ukraine from the party platform.
July (sometime) - Former MI6 agent Christopher Steele hired to do opposition research on Trump for an unknown client.
September - Christopher Steele is so worried about what he's discovering about the Russia connections that he contacts the FBI directly, but the FBI seems more concerned about pursing Clinton's emails.
October 18 - the date the full dossier is written, which includes information on the Sechin/Page meeting from a "Sechin associate."
November 8 - Trump elected.
December 7 - Russia sells a 19.5% stake in Rosneft.
The sale is incredibly complicated, involves the Swiss company Glencore, the Qatar QIA fund, with financing by Russian banks and an Italian bank. Apparently, a series of shell companies were created, including one called QHG Cayman, which was registered in December in the Cayman Islands and whose "role in the transaction is not clear."
December 9 - McCain, who was made aware of the dossier at a security conference and dispatched a trusted ally to meet Steele, personally takes the dossier to FBI director Comey.
December 26 - Sechin's chief of staff Oleg Erovinkin found dead in the back of his company car.
posted by bluecore at 9:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [75 favorites]
I wanted to put all the pieces on a timeline with some other public info:
(A reminder that Rosneft = Russian state-owned oil company)
July 7th or 8th - Carter Page allegedly met with Rosnet's president Igor Sechin who, the dossier alleges, "offered Page/Trump associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatised) stake in Rosneft" (19% = worth roughly $11 Billion) "Page had expressed interest and confirmed that were Trump elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted."
July 14-15 - RNC rules committee convenes, in which Trump associates are alleged to intervene and remove language regarding the defense of Ukraine from the party platform.
July (sometime) - Former MI6 agent Christopher Steele hired to do opposition research on Trump for an unknown client.
September - Christopher Steele is so worried about what he's discovering about the Russia connections that he contacts the FBI directly, but the FBI seems more concerned about pursing Clinton's emails.
October 18 - the date the full dossier is written, which includes information on the Sechin/Page meeting from a "Sechin associate."
November 8 - Trump elected.
December 7 - Russia sells a 19.5% stake in Rosneft.
The sale is incredibly complicated, involves the Swiss company Glencore, the Qatar QIA fund, with financing by Russian banks and an Italian bank. Apparently, a series of shell companies were created, including one called QHG Cayman, which was registered in December in the Cayman Islands and whose "role in the transaction is not clear."
December 9 - McCain, who was made aware of the dossier at a security conference and dispatched a trusted ally to meet Steele, personally takes the dossier to FBI director Comey.
December 26 - Sechin's chief of staff Oleg Erovinkin found dead in the back of his company car.
posted by bluecore at 9:46 PM on January 13, 2017 [75 favorites]
We should really get this into a new thread.
posted by Jalliah at 9:50 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's looking more and more that Trump's secret plan to stop ISIS is to ally with Putin in propping up Assad.
posted by JackFlash at 9:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 9:54 PM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The sale is incredibly complicated, involves the Swiss company Glencore, the Qatar QIA fund, with financing by Russian banks and an Italian bank.
Don't forget Qatar's plan for the QIA to invest $10B into Trump's infrastructure plan. Gee, I bet this guy could have looked into that.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Don't forget Qatar's plan for the QIA to invest $10B into Trump's infrastructure plan. Gee, I bet this guy could have looked into that.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:56 PM on January 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
President-elect Donald Trump suggested Friday he is open to lifting sanctions on Russia, though he plans to keep them for "at least a period of time."
He told the Wall Street Journal in an interview published Friday evening that he might do away with them if Russia helps the US battle terrorists or with other goals important to the US. The sanctions were implemented by the Obama administration last month in response to alleged Russian hacking during the election.
"If you get along and if Russia is really helping us, why would anybody have sanctions if somebody's doing some really great things?" he said in the interview.
He is bought and paid for.
posted by futz at 10:35 PM on January 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
He told the Wall Street Journal in an interview published Friday evening that he might do away with them if Russia helps the US battle terrorists or with other goals important to the US. The sanctions were implemented by the Obama administration last month in response to alleged Russian hacking during the election.
"If you get along and if Russia is really helping us, why would anybody have sanctions if somebody's doing some really great things?" he said in the interview.
He is bought and paid for.
posted by futz at 10:35 PM on January 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
Stop obsessing over ‘secrets’ about Trump and Russia. What we already know is bad enough.
"Here, for the record, once again, are things we already know about Trump and Russia, and they aren’t remotely secret:
●Trump’s real estate empire relies, though we don’t know how much, on Russian money. Trump says he never invested in Russia or got loans from Russia. But he did get investment from Russia. In 2008, his son said that Russian investment was “pouring in” to Trump properties. Even before that, Trump had a whole series of partners and investors linked to post-Soviet oligarchs and even Russian organized crime. Has Trump concealed his tax returns for this reason?
●Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, spent many years working on behalf of the thuggish Russian-backed Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych, who eventually fled his own country. Manafort maintains links to pro-Russian groups in Ukraine. His name appeared on a list of people who took large chunks of cash from Yanukovych. He hasn’t gone away — in fact, he has lived in Trump Tower. There is no secret about his Russian connections. On the contrary, they define him.
●Last summer, Trump operatives at the convention changed the Republican Party platform to soften the language on Ukraine. There was no explanation for this change, one of the few substantive changes made to the entire party platform. Was this a signal, from Manafort or Trump, that the candidate was on Vladimir Putin’s side?
●Throughout the campaign, Trump repeated slogans and conspiracy theories — “Obama invented ISIS,” “Hillary will start World War III” — lifted from Sputnik, the Russian propaganda website. Was this just Trump campaign chief Stephen K. Bannon borrowing ideas, or Manafort using tactics he perfected in Ukraine? Or was there deliberate linkage?
●Finally, and most important: Trump is willing to risk serious conflict with China, to destroy U.S. relations with Mexico, to dismiss America’s closest allies in Europe and to downgrade NATO, our most important military alliance. But he has repeated many times his admiration for Russia and its president. In 2013 he told MSNBC, “I do have a relationship” with Putin, who is “probably very interested in what you and I are saying today” and will “be seeing it in some form.” In 2014 he bragged that Putin had sent him a “beautiful present” and claimed — apparently untruthfully — to have spoken to him as well. Nothing that Putin has done since — invade Ukraine, murder journalists, jail opponents — has induced Trump to change his mind."
posted by supercrayon at 10:36 PM on January 13, 2017 [57 favorites]
"Here, for the record, once again, are things we already know about Trump and Russia, and they aren’t remotely secret:
●Trump’s real estate empire relies, though we don’t know how much, on Russian money. Trump says he never invested in Russia or got loans from Russia. But he did get investment from Russia. In 2008, his son said that Russian investment was “pouring in” to Trump properties. Even before that, Trump had a whole series of partners and investors linked to post-Soviet oligarchs and even Russian organized crime. Has Trump concealed his tax returns for this reason?
●Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, spent many years working on behalf of the thuggish Russian-backed Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych, who eventually fled his own country. Manafort maintains links to pro-Russian groups in Ukraine. His name appeared on a list of people who took large chunks of cash from Yanukovych. He hasn’t gone away — in fact, he has lived in Trump Tower. There is no secret about his Russian connections. On the contrary, they define him.
●Last summer, Trump operatives at the convention changed the Republican Party platform to soften the language on Ukraine. There was no explanation for this change, one of the few substantive changes made to the entire party platform. Was this a signal, from Manafort or Trump, that the candidate was on Vladimir Putin’s side?
●Throughout the campaign, Trump repeated slogans and conspiracy theories — “Obama invented ISIS,” “Hillary will start World War III” — lifted from Sputnik, the Russian propaganda website. Was this just Trump campaign chief Stephen K. Bannon borrowing ideas, or Manafort using tactics he perfected in Ukraine? Or was there deliberate linkage?
●Finally, and most important: Trump is willing to risk serious conflict with China, to destroy U.S. relations with Mexico, to dismiss America’s closest allies in Europe and to downgrade NATO, our most important military alliance. But he has repeated many times his admiration for Russia and its president. In 2013 he told MSNBC, “I do have a relationship” with Putin, who is “probably very interested in what you and I are saying today” and will “be seeing it in some form.” In 2014 he bragged that Putin had sent him a “beautiful present” and claimed — apparently untruthfully — to have spoken to him as well. Nothing that Putin has done since — invade Ukraine, murder journalists, jail opponents — has induced Trump to change his mind."
posted by supercrayon at 10:36 PM on January 13, 2017 [57 favorites]
With everything going on, this has been one of the hardest things for me to come to terms with. I don't get how people on the left, who are supposed to be the part of the reality based community, are so easily duped into uncritically swallowing conspiracy theories and furthering the agenda of a human rights abusing autocrat. How Putin Played the Far Left.
posted by supercrayon at 11:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 11:02 PM on January 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Some new leakage (sorry not sorry) from the classified FBI meeting today with Comey.
FBI Chief Jim Comey’s Russia Hacking Brief Turns Into ‘Sh*t Show’
-- What started as a standard classified, closed-door briefing degenerated into a gigantic “shit show” of angry, bitter Democratic lawmakers screaming in FBI director James Comey’s face.
-- “People were mad, people were loud. It was like…they wanted Comey’s head on a plate,” the source said, describing the elected Democrats in the room.
-- When Comey started addressing the group, he told them he was “tone deaf to politics,” something he’d said in an open hearing this past week, according to a different congressional staffer briefed on the meeting. He then added that he “doesn’t pay attention to timing, but does what he thinks is right,” to the scoffs of Democrats in the room.
-- “There was a big shit show toward the end of the briefing where [Democratic congresswoman and former Democratic National Committee chair] Debbie Wasserman Schultz, in an attempt at a public [cover-your-ass], badgered Comey in front of everyone basically blaming him for her losing her job, saying the FBI hadn’t properly warned the DNC they were being hacked, and hadn’t been more aggressive in their attempt to alert the DNC,” the Hill staffer recounted. “It lasted an uncomfortable amount of time, like 5 minutes. Republicans were booing and calling for her to sit down.”
Lots more to dig into in the article. I keep saying holy shit. Holy shit.
posted by futz at 11:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
FBI Chief Jim Comey’s Russia Hacking Brief Turns Into ‘Sh*t Show’
-- What started as a standard classified, closed-door briefing degenerated into a gigantic “shit show” of angry, bitter Democratic lawmakers screaming in FBI director James Comey’s face.
-- “People were mad, people were loud. It was like…they wanted Comey’s head on a plate,” the source said, describing the elected Democrats in the room.
-- When Comey started addressing the group, he told them he was “tone deaf to politics,” something he’d said in an open hearing this past week, according to a different congressional staffer briefed on the meeting. He then added that he “doesn’t pay attention to timing, but does what he thinks is right,” to the scoffs of Democrats in the room.
-- “There was a big shit show toward the end of the briefing where [Democratic congresswoman and former Democratic National Committee chair] Debbie Wasserman Schultz, in an attempt at a public [cover-your-ass], badgered Comey in front of everyone basically blaming him for her losing her job, saying the FBI hadn’t properly warned the DNC they were being hacked, and hadn’t been more aggressive in their attempt to alert the DNC,” the Hill staffer recounted. “It lasted an uncomfortable amount of time, like 5 minutes. Republicans were booing and calling for her to sit down.”
Lots more to dig into in the article. I keep saying holy shit. Holy shit.
posted by futz at 11:09 PM on January 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
Donald Trump Keeps a Big Stack of His Time ‘Person of the Year’ Mags on His Desk
posted by kirkaracha at 11:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:24 PM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
how people on the left, who are supposed to be the part of the reality based community, are so easily duped into uncritically swallowing conspiracy theories
I suspect social media is seeded with far more plants than people think. As for the reality based community -- I think the left may just have spent a long time thinking it was immune to manipulation. I think the non-conformist streak makes things worse-- people who desperately don't want to be thought of as belonging to a party are way easier to poison.
In a winner-takes-all political environment, idealism makes you dumb. And the left has idealism in spades.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:59 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
I suspect social media is seeded with far more plants than people think. As for the reality based community -- I think the left may just have spent a long time thinking it was immune to manipulation. I think the non-conformist streak makes things worse-- people who desperately don't want to be thought of as belonging to a party are way easier to poison.
In a winner-takes-all political environment, idealism makes you dumb. And the left has idealism in spades.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:59 PM on January 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Many were hazy on specific policy details about how, say, House Republicans were seeking to replace Medicare with a voucher system. These voters feared an outbreak of European-style terrorist attacks by Muslims in the United States, maybe in their own communities. And overwhelmingly, Trump supporters did not want their hard-earned money redistributed to people they regarded as undeserving.
Poor risk assessment skills, low information and deep prejudice made them think they were acting in their own self interest when it seems like the reality is that the stuff they want doesn't benefit them and they get a bunch of stuff they don't want (bit didn't know about) in the mix. When the bad shit stats happening they literally won't understand how it came to pass.
I'm constantly reminded of the "you know, morons" exchange in Blazing Saddles.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:13 AM on January 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Poor risk assessment skills, low information and deep prejudice made them think they were acting in their own self interest when it seems like the reality is that the stuff they want doesn't benefit them and they get a bunch of stuff they don't want (bit didn't know about) in the mix. When the bad shit stats happening they literally won't understand how it came to pass.
I'm constantly reminded of the "you know, morons" exchange in Blazing Saddles.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:13 AM on January 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
low information
posted by Mister Bijou at 12:25 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
But Trump supporters in Texas and across the country are unfazed. Many expressed a view of the dossier common during the many scandals of the election campaign: that they had only vaguely heard about it and did not care much. It did not shift their fundamental view of the president-elect, nor did it shake their faith in him.The Trump dossier doesn't faze his voters: 'I haven't been following that'
posted by Mister Bijou at 12:25 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah it's remarkable how easy it is to not care about something awful by acting like it doesn't exist. That's how I cured my diabetes. I just pretend I don't have it now. This is fine.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on January 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on January 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
November 8 - Trump elected.
December 7 - Russia sells a 19.5% stake in Rosneft.
hey remember when people argued that Trump would be immune to bribery and lobbying and special interests because he's already rich
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 1:00 AM on January 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
December 7 - Russia sells a 19.5% stake in Rosneft.
hey remember when people argued that Trump would be immune to bribery and lobbying and special interests because he's already rich
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 1:00 AM on January 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yeah it's remarkable how easy it is to not care about something awful by acting like it doesn't exist. That's how I cured my diabetes. I just pretend I don't have it now. This is fine.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on January 14
[+] [!]
I'm doing the same with global warming! Works great!
posted by From Bklyn at 1:05 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on January 14
[+] [!]
I'm doing the same with global warming! Works great!
posted by From Bklyn at 1:05 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
From Mister Bijou's Guardian link:
posted by litlnemo at 1:08 AM on January 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
'Asked about the claims that Russia collected compromising information about Trump, Richard Kienzle, 62, a retired doctor from Atlanta, Georgia, said: “I haven’t been following that. I’m sure there’s going to be an attempt to vilify Trump by the Democrats. I’m sure the report about Russia hacking the election is false to make his election look false. We need a purge of leftwing Democrats and the loony left.”'Emphasis mine. JFC.
posted by litlnemo at 1:08 AM on January 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Trump dossier doesn't faze his voters: 'I haven't been following that'
"I wondered if democracy meant I should be an informed voter, but then decided it doesn't." [fake]
posted by jaduncan at 1:08 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I wondered if democracy meant I should be an informed voter, but then decided it doesn't." [fake]
posted by jaduncan at 1:08 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
hey remember when people argued that Trump would be immune to bribery and lobbying and special interests because he's already rich
Not even the people saying that actually believed it was real, though, because if that was real then lobbying and bribery wouldn't work anywhere in our federal government because we only allow rich people to win elections anyway.
posted by IAmUnaware at 1:16 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not even the people saying that actually believed it was real, though, because if that was real then lobbying and bribery wouldn't work anywhere in our federal government because we only allow rich people to win elections anyway.
posted by IAmUnaware at 1:16 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
We need a purge of leftwing Democrats and the loony left.”'
Emphasis mine. JFC.
Honestly, the one time in US politics I can honestly say something sounds like the Soviet Union, and it's a Republican. *sighs*
posted by jaduncan at 1:23 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Emphasis mine. JFC.
Honestly, the one time in US politics I can honestly say something sounds like the Soviet Union, and it's a Republican. *sighs*
posted by jaduncan at 1:23 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Regarding low information, occasionally I hop on over to fox news website to see what the front page is saying.
The headline is not even about Trump but about the head of the national guard "stepping down".
The only real indication something is wrong is the subtle and not so subtle news articles on safety and possibility of protests on the 20th.
Comey gets small print with victim like language, and there is one mention of Russia. (One article, in reference to Tillerson far down the page).
There is no headline on ACA related things.
It terrifies me.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:33 AM on January 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
The headline is not even about Trump but about the head of the national guard "stepping down".
The only real indication something is wrong is the subtle and not so subtle news articles on safety and possibility of protests on the 20th.
Comey gets small print with victim like language, and there is one mention of Russia. (One article, in reference to Tillerson far down the page).
There is no headline on ACA related things.
It terrifies me.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:33 AM on January 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
1984 by Orwell is remarkably prescient (though I used to think Huxley's Brave New World was more so). It is the source for the terms Doublethink, Newspeak, Big Brother, and Thoughtcrime, all of which have become necessary terms of art. It also envisaged a geopolitical order in which three superstates maintained an equilibrium of 2 against 1, though the composition of the alliance changed unpredictably, and without consultation of the citizens. The three superstates map pretty well onto Trump+May's Oceania (The former UK is Airstrip One), Putin's Eurasia and Xi's Eastasia, with permanent contestation of the Middle East, India, Philippines and Indonesia.
It is not a stretch to see the present as birthing the first such constellation.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:58 AM on January 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
It is not a stretch to see the present as birthing the first such constellation.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:58 AM on January 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
>@AlexiaSky: occasionally I hop on over to fox news website to see what the front page
I just did this, visiting foxnews.com, which is not my wont. There is a shiny scrolling thing that pauses briefly to show the banner "Fox News Insider", and then a bunch of images go scrolling by. It is not possible to read these properly, but they impinge on the viewer nonetheless. The most prominent required a precisely timed screencap to get it. What most visitors will see is more ISIS, 129 dead in Paris. It is impossible to see that the headline is from November 2015. This is naked fearmongering. I can feel the seething response of the regular Fox visitor, who knows enough from that brief exposure.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:10 AM on January 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
I just did this, visiting foxnews.com, which is not my wont. There is a shiny scrolling thing that pauses briefly to show the banner "Fox News Insider", and then a bunch of images go scrolling by. It is not possible to read these properly, but they impinge on the viewer nonetheless. The most prominent required a precisely timed screencap to get it. What most visitors will see is more ISIS, 129 dead in Paris. It is impossible to see that the headline is from November 2015. This is naked fearmongering. I can feel the seething response of the regular Fox visitor, who knows enough from that brief exposure.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:10 AM on January 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Fox are not controlled Russian media, but they can see it from their house. Now Breitbart, that is genuinely now controlled government media. I think that Bannon/Trump will have a heavy commercial and ideological incentive to make Breitbart the home of the right, with Fox presented as centrist and the rest of the media as far left.
A media network directly controlled by a senior member of the administration is of course a new thing, but it's a powerful weapon if they can get people to it. It's also, crucially, owned by someone who is a Trump man rather than a Republican, so in any war between Congress and the administration it's going to be far more reliable.
posted by jaduncan at 3:19 AM on January 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
A media network directly controlled by a senior member of the administration is of course a new thing, but it's a powerful weapon if they can get people to it. It's also, crucially, owned by someone who is a Trump man rather than a Republican, so in any war between Congress and the administration it's going to be far more reliable.
posted by jaduncan at 3:19 AM on January 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Thanks, bluecore for summarizing the twitter thread.
And for more background, remember that Rosnet are best buds with Exxon too:
posted by p3t3 at 3:23 AM on January 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
And for more background, remember that Rosnet are best buds with Exxon too:
Exxon has a $720 million joint venture with Rosneft, run by Putin's friend Igor Sechin. That deal has been put on ice since the White House sanctioned Russian oil and gas companies in July 2014.So that gives Tillerson a role in the story too. Hard to link all those coincidences into the final spy novel, but man would it make sense of all this mess in such a (relatively) simple story if true.
posted by p3t3 at 3:23 AM on January 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
J. Freedland: Don’t treat Donald Trump as if he’s a normal president. He’s not.
If Trump turns his full rage on the spooks – and he has barely got started – reminding Americans of the debacle of the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction that never were, conveniently omitting to mention the pressure the Bush administration put on the spies to produce the answers it wanted to hear – who’s to say that’s a battle he won’t win?
The price will be an American public who won’t believe the intelligence services even when they warn of genuine dangers to national security – but Trump won’t care about that. He does not mind trampling over the republic’s key institutions, as long as it helps him.
The mistake is to project on to Trump the standards that would normally apply. Take this week’s parallel drama, as several of his nominees came before the senate to have their appointments confirmed. [...] Surely it is just as possible that Trump’s team gave his nominees permission to say whatever they had to say to get confirmed, true or false. For Trump, consistency and truth are for losers. Much simpler to lie, if that’s what gets results. So Tillerson didn’t need to get tangled up in a long debate over US policy on Russia: he just had to say that he and Trump had never even discussed it, implausible as that might sound. Job done.
For critics, this poses a conundrum. Too often they deal with Trump as if he is a normal politician, constrained by the usual conventions, including embarrassment at being caught in a lie. But Trump is not a normal politician. He has no shame. While most politicians blush if exposed as inconsistent, let alone dishonest, Trump is unembarrassable. [...] There is no precedent to guide the media or policymakers, because there has been no US president remotely comparable to Trump. Sticking to the old rulebook, now charred and in tatters, will be a grave mistake.
posted by progosk at 4:01 AM on January 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
If Trump turns his full rage on the spooks – and he has barely got started – reminding Americans of the debacle of the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction that never were, conveniently omitting to mention the pressure the Bush administration put on the spies to produce the answers it wanted to hear – who’s to say that’s a battle he won’t win?
The price will be an American public who won’t believe the intelligence services even when they warn of genuine dangers to national security – but Trump won’t care about that. He does not mind trampling over the republic’s key institutions, as long as it helps him.
The mistake is to project on to Trump the standards that would normally apply. Take this week’s parallel drama, as several of his nominees came before the senate to have their appointments confirmed. [...] Surely it is just as possible that Trump’s team gave his nominees permission to say whatever they had to say to get confirmed, true or false. For Trump, consistency and truth are for losers. Much simpler to lie, if that’s what gets results. So Tillerson didn’t need to get tangled up in a long debate over US policy on Russia: he just had to say that he and Trump had never even discussed it, implausible as that might sound. Job done.
For critics, this poses a conundrum. Too often they deal with Trump as if he is a normal politician, constrained by the usual conventions, including embarrassment at being caught in a lie. But Trump is not a normal politician. He has no shame. While most politicians blush if exposed as inconsistent, let alone dishonest, Trump is unembarrassable. [...] There is no precedent to guide the media or policymakers, because there has been no US president remotely comparable to Trump. Sticking to the old rulebook, now charred and in tatters, will be a grave mistake.
posted by progosk at 4:01 AM on January 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Steve King's got more on his mind besides a tiny wall: GOP Congressman introduces federal ‘heartbeat bill’ to effectively ban all abortions in the US.
(Can we drop the pretense and extra links and just have a new thread called "Trump, cont." because this thread is pretty unusable. Please!)
posted by Room 641-A at 4:24 AM on January 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
(Can we drop the pretense and extra links and just have a new thread called "Trump, cont." because this thread is pretty unusable. Please!)
posted by Room 641-A at 4:24 AM on January 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
(Can we drop the pretense and extra links and just have a new thread called "Trump, cont." because this thread is pretty unusable. Please!)
Slight misspelling in your suggested title.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:04 AM on January 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
Slight misspelling in your suggested title.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:04 AM on January 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I've been trying to figure out which bug in the human operating system has allowed Trump to con SO many (presumably non sociopathic) people, even though he seems like such an obvious threat to me. How did he get so thoroughly into their heads that they can't recognize him for what he is?
I am lucky to be immune this time because I was already of the opposite party, but would I recognize a Trump in my own party? Who was promising me the policies I want? It seems hard to believe I would fall for such a transparent con man, but what makes me think I'm so much different than the 46% of voters who fell for it this time? If you can con 46% of voters, you're exploiting something which must be nearly universal in humans, because that is a huge sample size. Presumably you'd need different bait to get the other half, but with the right bait, would I fall for the trap too?
Because we all have lots of exploitable flaws... Our tribalism/racism? Our fear reponse/poor risk assessment? Our "tendency to bend at the knees" as Terry Pratchett put it? Our tendency not to understand when our livelihood depends on not understanding? Those really aren't just limited to Republicans, though it is of course easier to see these flaws in others than in ourselves (and Republicans are certainly pandering to tribalists especially these days). Almost all humans suffer from those to greater or lesser degrees.
I'm sure they all played a role, but is there a specific vulnerability here that we would somehow address to prevent this from happening again?
I keep coming back to education. The skills the humanities teach, approaching arguments skeptically and considering the source and your own biases, placing things in context -- those are hard. Learning enough math to recognize when someone is lying with statistics or when the numbers you're hearing just don't add up, that's hard. Sorting out truth from bullshit is hard, skilled labor. If people don't do that work, they become "low information voters" and easy targets for lies that exploit those other human flaws.
Cultural context and mathematical reasoning. I like to think that's the "two factor authentication" that could prevent my brain from being hacked like I feel like so many Republicans' brains have been. Certainly the more educated Republicans have seemed less susceptible to this attack.
I also keep coming back to "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance." What should we be vigilant against? I'm starting to think it's "bullshit." I'm starting to think mainstream politicians and journalists should have been reporting on Rush Limbaugh's bullshit earlier and more often. CNN should have been reporting straight-faced "Last night Fox News lied in a report that said... The truth is ..." I'm thinking we all should have been politely but firmly confronting our racist relatives instead of avoiding them. And we should have been joining forces to publicly eviscerate internet trolls instead of ignoring them, "not feeding them."
I have never walked away from any of those types of interactions feeling good. It never feels like I made a difference. But repeated over and over those interactions might slowly infuse some information into the heads of low information voters? If we just constantly engage them? It sounds exhausting. But "the price of liberty"...
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:20 AM on January 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I am lucky to be immune this time because I was already of the opposite party, but would I recognize a Trump in my own party? Who was promising me the policies I want? It seems hard to believe I would fall for such a transparent con man, but what makes me think I'm so much different than the 46% of voters who fell for it this time? If you can con 46% of voters, you're exploiting something which must be nearly universal in humans, because that is a huge sample size. Presumably you'd need different bait to get the other half, but with the right bait, would I fall for the trap too?
Because we all have lots of exploitable flaws... Our tribalism/racism? Our fear reponse/poor risk assessment? Our "tendency to bend at the knees" as Terry Pratchett put it? Our tendency not to understand when our livelihood depends on not understanding? Those really aren't just limited to Republicans, though it is of course easier to see these flaws in others than in ourselves (and Republicans are certainly pandering to tribalists especially these days). Almost all humans suffer from those to greater or lesser degrees.
I'm sure they all played a role, but is there a specific vulnerability here that we would somehow address to prevent this from happening again?
I keep coming back to education. The skills the humanities teach, approaching arguments skeptically and considering the source and your own biases, placing things in context -- those are hard. Learning enough math to recognize when someone is lying with statistics or when the numbers you're hearing just don't add up, that's hard. Sorting out truth from bullshit is hard, skilled labor. If people don't do that work, they become "low information voters" and easy targets for lies that exploit those other human flaws.
Cultural context and mathematical reasoning. I like to think that's the "two factor authentication" that could prevent my brain from being hacked like I feel like so many Republicans' brains have been. Certainly the more educated Republicans have seemed less susceptible to this attack.
I also keep coming back to "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance." What should we be vigilant against? I'm starting to think it's "bullshit." I'm starting to think mainstream politicians and journalists should have been reporting on Rush Limbaugh's bullshit earlier and more often. CNN should have been reporting straight-faced "Last night Fox News lied in a report that said... The truth is ..." I'm thinking we all should have been politely but firmly confronting our racist relatives instead of avoiding them. And we should have been joining forces to publicly eviscerate internet trolls instead of ignoring them, "not feeding them."
I have never walked away from any of those types of interactions feeling good. It never feels like I made a difference. But repeated over and over those interactions might slowly infuse some information into the heads of low information voters? If we just constantly engage them? It sounds exhausting. But "the price of liberty"...
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:20 AM on January 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I took at stab at a new thread, hopefully it suffices for a few days.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:23 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:23 AM on January 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, John Lewis, civil rights hero, is all talk, no action or results. (And how in the world does it take him 17 minutes to write the second half.)
@realDonaldTrump:
Congressman John Lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district, which is in horrible shape and falling apart (not to......
@realDonaldTrump:
mention crime infested) rather than falsely complaining about the election results. All talk, talk, talk - no action or results. Sad!
posted by chris24 at 5:24 AM on January 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump:
Congressman John Lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district, which is in horrible shape and falling apart (not to......
@realDonaldTrump:
mention crime infested) rather than falsely complaining about the election results. All talk, talk, talk - no action or results. Sad!
posted by chris24 at 5:24 AM on January 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Suddenly I am imagining Trump in the role of beaten and bloodied civil rights activist. (OK, maybe just the beaten and bloodied part...)
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:26 AM on January 14, 2017
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:26 AM on January 14, 2017
Trump getting ready to celebrate MLK Jr Day I see.
posted by Talez at 5:28 AM on January 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:28 AM on January 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
New post was deleted. Someone else is welcome to try....
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:28 AM on January 14, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:28 AM on January 14, 2017
Looks like it needs a different title. Working on it.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:29 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:29 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thanks Snuffleupagus. Sorely needed.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:30 AM on January 14, 2017
posted by stonepharisee at 5:30 AM on January 14, 2017
While I wait, I'm going to visit with some old white guys in Iowa.
posted by box at 5:34 AM on January 14, 2017
posted by box at 5:34 AM on January 14, 2017
OK, fixed up & good to go.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:37 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:37 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The new thread is the same link that was temporarily deleted.
posted by chris24 at 5:43 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chris24 at 5:43 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
@realDonaldTrump:
Congressman John Lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district, which is in horrible shape and falling apart (not to......
@realDonaldTrump:
mention crime infested) rather than falsely complaining about the election results. All talk, talk, talk - no action or results. Sad!
As an Atlantan, let me translate for you: Many of John Lewis's constituents are not white, as his district includes some of the most important historically black neighborhoods in the city (likely in the country) including Sweet Auburn where Dr. King grew up. These aren't even dog whistles.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:21 AM on January 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm doing the same with global warming! Works great!
I'm doing the same with Trump/Pence. Not working so good.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:13 AM on January 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm doing the same with Trump/Pence. Not working so good.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:13 AM on January 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Can we drop the pretense and extra links and just have a new thread called "Trump, cont." because this thread is pretty unusable. Please!)
Slight misspelling in your suggested title.
'Scuse me? Pardon?
Am I missing something or is it being implied that one should call that man a word for vulva? If so: Super. Not. Cool.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:28 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Slight misspelling in your suggested title.
'Scuse me? Pardon?
Am I missing something or is it being implied that one should call that man a word for vulva? If so: Super. Not. Cool.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:28 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
These aren't even dog whistles.
He really does "have a great relationship with the blacks."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:11 AM on January 14, 2017
(Can we drop the pretense and extra links and just have a new thread called "Trump, cont." because this thread is pretty unusable. Please!)
Slight misspelling in your suggested title.
'Scuse me? Pardon?
Am I missing something or is it being implied that one should call that man a word for vulva? If so: Super. Not. Cool.
I saw it as, "Trump, con"
posted by corb at 9:35 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Slight misspelling in your suggested title.
'Scuse me? Pardon?
Am I missing something or is it being implied that one should call that man a word for vulva? If so: Super. Not. Cool.
I saw it as, "Trump, con"
posted by corb at 9:35 AM on January 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Plus one thousand, Excommunicated Cardinal.
posted by XtinaS at 9:37 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by XtinaS at 9:37 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I saw it as, "Trump, con"
In French?
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:21 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
In French?
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:21 AM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Trump, can't"
posted by box at 10:29 AM on January 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 10:29 AM on January 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not really sure what was intended, but after the part where 60 million people didn't finding graphically bragging about sexual assault on tape to be an automatic disqualifier for elected office, I'll cop to being super extra sensitive to perceived misogyny. So tired of "pussy" and "cunt" being used as insults. "Bitch" too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:54 AM on January 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:54 AM on January 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
I keep coming back to education. The skills the humanities teach, approaching arguments skeptically and considering the source and your own biases, placing things in context -- those are hard. Learning enough math to recognize when someone is lying with statistics or when the numbers you're hearing just don't add up, that's hard. Sorting out truth from bullshit is hard, skilled labor. If people don't do that work, they become "low information voters" and easy targets for lies that exploit those other human flaws.
This is the argument made by humanities educators but there is almost no evidence that people, even the very best in their respective humanities or scientific fields, generalize their skills out to other domains.
It's almost a cliched joke among academics how dumb they often are outside of their fields.
posted by srboisvert at 1:32 PM on January 14, 2017
This is the argument made by humanities educators but there is almost no evidence that people, even the very best in their respective humanities or scientific fields, generalize their skills out to other domains.
It's almost a cliched joke among academics how dumb they often are outside of their fields.
posted by srboisvert at 1:32 PM on January 14, 2017
... Does Trump not know who John Lewis is? Although I suppose Lewis is used to it. A bunch of the Bernie Bros went after him in the primary as well. I'm guessing that if the dogs and hoses didn't stop him some whiny tweets won't either.
posted by Justinian at 2:05 PM on January 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:05 PM on January 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Berniebros over on Lawyers Guns and Money are still going after him, for not supporting Bernie. Of course at this point they're more interested in scoring points than forming alliances that can survive the Trump years. It remains to be seen if things will change.
posted by happyroach at 9:05 PM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by happyroach at 9:05 PM on January 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Berniebros over on Lawyers Guns and Money are still going after him, for not supporting Bernie.
My dad, who also marched on Washington in '63, and integrated lunch counters and swimming pools in the South before that, was also mad at John Lewis for things he said during the primary. He actually mentioned this to me just a couple weeks ago. (Is my dad a Berniebro? I'll try to explain that one to him.)
"Not supporting Bernie" doesn't cover it at all. My dad feels that John Lewis smeared Bernie by calling into question his civil rights activism. E.g.:
To my dad, Lewis of course still deserves respect as an important civil rights leader in the '60s and since. But he still feels let down by the Sanders episode. It would have been one thing to "not support Bernie" like the rest of the Democratic power structure -- a mistake, perhaps, but not a grave dishonor. But he basically accused him of stealing valor, which is very different.
posted by grobstein at 9:31 AM on January 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
My dad, who also marched on Washington in '63, and integrated lunch counters and swimming pools in the South before that, was also mad at John Lewis for things he said during the primary. He actually mentioned this to me just a couple weeks ago. (Is my dad a Berniebro? I'll try to explain that one to him.)
"Not supporting Bernie" doesn't cover it at all. My dad feels that John Lewis smeared Bernie by calling into question his civil rights activism. E.g.:
When a reporter asked Lewis to comment on Sanders' involvement in the movement—Sanders as a college student at the University of Chicago was active in civil rights work—the congressman brusquely interrupted him. "Well, to be very frank, I'm going to cut you off, but I never saw him, I never met him," Lewis said.Now, Lewis was a national leader in the movement, whereas Sanders was a local leader. No one has said Sanders was individually crucial to the civil rights movement. But he was there, working and organizing, and leaving school to spend more time on the movement, and Lewis's remarks seemed to many (like my dad) calculated to deceive on this point. Lewis made it sound like Sanders was lying or exaggerating his involvement, when he was in fact there, working and organizing.
To my dad, Lewis of course still deserves respect as an important civil rights leader in the '60s and since. But he still feels let down by the Sanders episode. It would have been one thing to "not support Bernie" like the rest of the Democratic power structure -- a mistake, perhaps, but not a grave dishonor. But he basically accused him of stealing valor, which is very different.
posted by grobstein at 9:31 AM on January 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
TPM: Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), the chair of the House Oversight Committee, said Sunday that he won't go on a "fishing expedition" into President-elect Donald Trump's potential conflicts of interest.
posted by PenDevil at 12:28 PM on January 15, 2017
posted by PenDevil at 12:28 PM on January 15, 2017
That's a whole lot of projection. The reporter asked Lewis to comment on Sanders' civil rights involvement. Lewis didn't see or know Sanders then and said as much. It's not even close to an accusation of stolen valor! Lewis refrained from commenting because he had no commentary to offer.
I fail to see why it's relevant now, also, except as a sour grapes attempt to shade Representative Lewis? No one is above criticism but, like, Lewis didn't know Sanders then and said as much. Pretty straightforward.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 12:32 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I fail to see why it's relevant now, also, except as a sour grapes attempt to shade Representative Lewis? No one is above criticism but, like, Lewis didn't know Sanders then and said as much. Pretty straightforward.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 12:32 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The statement maybe could have been phrased better if it was meant to communicate "I honestly don't know, we wouldn't have been in the same circles" instead of "whatever, I never saw him", I guess, but that doesn't mean the phrasing was deliberate. Lewis's clarification soon after strongly suggests it wasn't, although that definitely would get far less coverage than the initial statement so how much of a difference that makes is arguable. It's kind of pointless to debate at this point, though.
Now, I don't read the Lawyers, Guns, and Money blog, but looking at it, I couldn't find this alleged mass Lewis-bashing that started this derail? I see a comment thread on one post in which one commenter gets whiny and is immediately slammed down by everybody else there. Awful lot of Clintonistas pre-emptively throwing down FUD, whining about how these mythical Bernie-or-Die voters who ruined the election and brought about Trump are coming in to threadshit about Lewis, though. It's lovely that happyroach felt the need to spread a little of that over here, after the new thread was started.
posted by kafziel at 1:39 PM on January 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Now, I don't read the Lawyers, Guns, and Money blog, but looking at it, I couldn't find this alleged mass Lewis-bashing that started this derail? I see a comment thread on one post in which one commenter gets whiny and is immediately slammed down by everybody else there. Awful lot of Clintonistas pre-emptively throwing down FUD, whining about how these mythical Bernie-or-Die voters who ruined the election and brought about Trump are coming in to threadshit about Lewis, though. It's lovely that happyroach felt the need to spread a little of that over here, after the new thread was started.
posted by kafziel at 1:39 PM on January 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
OnceUponATime: "I've been trying to figure out which bug in the human operating system has allowed Trump to con SO many (presumably non sociopathic) people, even though he seems like such an obvious threat to me. How did he get so thoroughly into their heads that they can't recognize him for what he is?"
Let me state at the outset here, that I consider myself very much a left winger and very much anti-Trump.
With that out of the way, i'll give you my theory as to why people, mainly men, voted for Trump.
It's people like me; places likes Metafilter, that people who like Trump voted against.
For years and years, the Left have been telling people to act a certain way, that to say certain things is wrong, and that white men have it easy in society and that they need to "check their privilege" before they say something they might be thinking.
But to a white middle class male in the rust belt, being told he's living life on easy mode when he's unemployed, struggling to put food on the table for his family, and being told by others in his circle that the reason the factory shut down is because Asian people in another country can do their jobs for less... well, it's probably galling for him, I'd say.
And even as a left winger who is pro equality, i've found myself angry at some of my fellow Lefties - and indeed, some of my fellow MeFites, from time to time, because I think in our enthusiasm to defend what we think is right, we sometimes tend to attack others far too viciously, even our own.
A few years back I made some comments here on Metafilter in a thread about Gamergate. The point of my comments was that I thought Gamergate would go away if we just stopped talking about it. I expressed no enthusiasm or support for the idiots behind GG, but somehow my comments were interpreted as being mysoginistic. And no matter what I said to try and point out that I hate GamerGate and very much pro-equality, my fellow MeFites in that thread kept on attacking me as some sort of woman hating pig.
That got me angry - so angry I left Metafilter for a while, and only recently have I begun to come back. But my point here is n to say that many of us on the Left can be just as quick to vilify and attack people on the right - and our own allies - when they express a thought that they may not agree with. And when some left-leaning hippie (/s) tells you that you're stupid, or racist, or sexist, or whatever, you're probably less inclined to vote for Clinton or Sanders than you are the guy who is telling you that he can get you your job at the factory back.
Post Trump's election, I've been trying to engage in much more civil debate with those I disagree with than I may have done before. I think the key to moving forward in the years to come, as we try to fight populists like Trump, is to realise that people who vote for Trump aren't necessarily stupid (though she surely are). They want what most people want - a job, to feel safe, to feel included. They key to engaging those people is to respect their views (even as we strongly disagree with them), engage them in civil discussion, and to find ways to include them in the economy and democracy. This is probably easier said than done, but we in the left need to realise that angry shouting is what we hate in the other side, and we need to remember what being progressive really means.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Let me state at the outset here, that I consider myself very much a left winger and very much anti-Trump.
With that out of the way, i'll give you my theory as to why people, mainly men, voted for Trump.
It's people like me; places likes Metafilter, that people who like Trump voted against.
For years and years, the Left have been telling people to act a certain way, that to say certain things is wrong, and that white men have it easy in society and that they need to "check their privilege" before they say something they might be thinking.
But to a white middle class male in the rust belt, being told he's living life on easy mode when he's unemployed, struggling to put food on the table for his family, and being told by others in his circle that the reason the factory shut down is because Asian people in another country can do their jobs for less... well, it's probably galling for him, I'd say.
And even as a left winger who is pro equality, i've found myself angry at some of my fellow Lefties - and indeed, some of my fellow MeFites, from time to time, because I think in our enthusiasm to defend what we think is right, we sometimes tend to attack others far too viciously, even our own.
A few years back I made some comments here on Metafilter in a thread about Gamergate. The point of my comments was that I thought Gamergate would go away if we just stopped talking about it. I expressed no enthusiasm or support for the idiots behind GG, but somehow my comments were interpreted as being mysoginistic. And no matter what I said to try and point out that I hate GamerGate and very much pro-equality, my fellow MeFites in that thread kept on attacking me as some sort of woman hating pig.
That got me angry - so angry I left Metafilter for a while, and only recently have I begun to come back. But my point here is n to say that many of us on the Left can be just as quick to vilify and attack people on the right - and our own allies - when they express a thought that they may not agree with. And when some left-leaning hippie (/s) tells you that you're stupid, or racist, or sexist, or whatever, you're probably less inclined to vote for Clinton or Sanders than you are the guy who is telling you that he can get you your job at the factory back.
Post Trump's election, I've been trying to engage in much more civil debate with those I disagree with than I may have done before. I think the key to moving forward in the years to come, as we try to fight populists like Trump, is to realise that people who vote for Trump aren't necessarily stupid (though she surely are). They want what most people want - a job, to feel safe, to feel included. They key to engaging those people is to respect their views (even as we strongly disagree with them), engage them in civil discussion, and to find ways to include them in the economy and democracy. This is probably easier said than done, but we in the left need to realise that angry shouting is what we hate in the other side, and we need to remember what being progressive really means.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
-Effigy2000
I agree with a lot of what you're saying and have often felt the same way, many years ago I leaned more center right mostly because of the condescending attitude of many Lefties. Then I grew up.
I have made sure to engage in respectful, civil debate and persuasion in the past, but not any longer. I'm in full "Fuck Those People" mode now. A line has been crossed. Many lines have been crossed. I have no respect and will not show any. I haven't been able to find a "fuck you if you voted for Trump" bumper sticker yet, so I may have to make some.
I'm really not interested in any more talk about how we have to be nice to the Nazi's because their feelings get hurt easily.
posted by bongo_x at 4:45 PM on January 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I agree with a lot of what you're saying and have often felt the same way, many years ago I leaned more center right mostly because of the condescending attitude of many Lefties. Then I grew up.
I have made sure to engage in respectful, civil debate and persuasion in the past, but not any longer. I'm in full "Fuck Those People" mode now. A line has been crossed. Many lines have been crossed. I have no respect and will not show any. I haven't been able to find a "fuck you if you voted for Trump" bumper sticker yet, so I may have to make some.
I'm really not interested in any more talk about how we have to be nice to the Nazi's because their feelings get hurt easily.
posted by bongo_x at 4:45 PM on January 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Since it dropped off the Recent Activity page, here's a link to the NEW THREAD.
posted by mbrubeck at 4:55 PM on January 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mbrubeck at 4:55 PM on January 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I get that attitude bongo_x. I really do. I tend to save that for the politicians themselves than ordinary voters. I think if we direct that anger at ordinary voters we're just perpetuating the environment that got us here - an environment we need to break down and repair before 2020 if we're to deny Trump a second term.
Remember that many of these people (I stress the word many, not *all*) may have voted for Obama in years past because he offered hope, not angry words. They feel angry and disenfranchised from the political discussion because left leaning liberal elites like me and you and others have told them, often in angry, dismissive tones, they're wrong, or racist, or misogynistic or whatever. You won't win them back that way. Get them invested in change that helps them, their friends, the country... and you'll have real, lasting support that benefits everyone.
posted by Effigy2000 at 5:12 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Remember that many of these people (I stress the word many, not *all*) may have voted for Obama in years past because he offered hope, not angry words. They feel angry and disenfranchised from the political discussion because left leaning liberal elites like me and you and others have told them, often in angry, dismissive tones, they're wrong, or racist, or misogynistic or whatever. You won't win them back that way. Get them invested in change that helps them, their friends, the country... and you'll have real, lasting support that benefits everyone.
posted by Effigy2000 at 5:12 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Remember that many of these people (I stress the word many, not *all*) may have voted for Obama in years past because he offered hope, not angry words. They feel angry and disenfranchised from the political discussion because left leaning liberal elites like me and you and others have told them, often in angry, dismissive tones, they're wrong, or racist, or misogynistic or whatever.
When the response to "Hey, Bob, you should be nicer to other people" is "Well, I would if you were nicer about it," then Bob is not actually interested in being nicer to other people. Treading lightly around discriminatory policies and practices and words and deeds never works, because discrimination relies on people (mostly the ones who quietly benefit from discrimination even if they don't actually participate in it) keeping their heads down and not objecting.
posted by Etrigan at 5:45 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
When the response to "Hey, Bob, you should be nicer to other people" is "Well, I would if you were nicer about it," then Bob is not actually interested in being nicer to other people. Treading lightly around discriminatory policies and practices and words and deeds never works, because discrimination relies on people (mostly the ones who quietly benefit from discrimination even if they don't actually participate in it) keeping their heads down and not objecting.
posted by Etrigan at 5:45 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
You won't win them back that way. Get them invested in change that helps them, their friends, the country... and you'll have real, lasting support that benefits everyone.
Until recently I would have written that. I'm done now. Don't care. Someone else can do that work if they want. I'm done coddling stupid people and letting half the country act like a spoiled child.
posted by bongo_x at 5:54 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Until recently I would have written that. I'm done now. Don't care. Someone else can do that work if they want. I'm done coddling stupid people and letting half the country act like a spoiled child.
posted by bongo_x at 5:54 PM on January 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
many of us on the Left can be just as quick to vilify and attack people on the right - and our own allies - when they express a thought that they may not agree with
...followed immediately by people on the left attacking one of our own. Welcome to FilterDome; only the purest will survive.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:07 AM on January 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
...followed immediately by people on the left attacking one of our own. Welcome to FilterDome; only the purest will survive.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:07 AM on January 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Effigy2000: "find ways to include them in the economy and democracy"
Conversely, if you want to understand why "liberal elites" and "left-leaning hippie (/s)" aren't all on-board with this approach, consider that Trump just got elected with 3 million fewer votes than Clinton. Maybe those "liberal elites" feel like they are not included in democracy at the moment.
posted by RobotHero at 6:18 AM on January 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Conversely, if you want to understand why "liberal elites" and "left-leaning hippie (/s)" aren't all on-board with this approach, consider that Trump just got elected with 3 million fewer votes than Clinton. Maybe those "liberal elites" feel like they are not included in democracy at the moment.
posted by RobotHero at 6:18 AM on January 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
When the response to "Hey, Bob, you should be nicer to other people" is "Well, I would if you were nicer about it," then Bob is not actually interested in being nicer to other people.
It depends on how cognitively easy it is for Bob to back down from a fight.
posted by corb at 6:29 AM on January 16, 2017
It depends on how cognitively easy it is for Bob to back down from a fight.
posted by corb at 6:29 AM on January 16, 2017
If Bob can't back down from the "fight" (which in this hypothetical is his fault anyway), then he's still not actually interested in being nicer to other people.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:23 AM on January 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:23 AM on January 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
...followed immediately by people on the left attacking one of our own. Welcome to FilterDome; only the purest will survive.
If you can only read well-articulated disagreement as 'attacking,' that may be part of your problem.
posted by beerperson at 9:36 AM on January 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
If you can only read well-articulated disagreement as 'attacking,' that may be part of your problem.
posted by beerperson at 9:36 AM on January 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
...followed immediately by people on the left attacking one of our own. Welcome to FilterDome; only the purest will survive.
If you can't participate in a democracy without feeling attacked when someone disagrees with you -- even someone who generally agrees -- you don't really understand what a democracy is.
posted by maxsparber at 9:43 AM on January 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you can't participate in a democracy without feeling attacked when someone disagrees with you -- even someone who generally agrees -- you don't really understand what a democracy is.
posted by maxsparber at 9:43 AM on January 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I agree completely with Effigy2000.
There are three main types of Trump voter.
1. The Deplorable
2. The lifelong Republican who doesn't like Trump but always votes the party line, and
3. The easily manipulated non-political voter.
#1 is a lost cause. These are your racist, misogynist fascists. Fuck them.
#2 is almost impossible to turn. The best you can hope for is a true blue dog conservative candidate for him to vote for
#3 can probably be divided into a dozen more baskets. Some have been conditioned by what little news they watch into being afraid of Muslim suicide bombers and marauding BLM protesters. Some are the economic victims E2000 mentioned whose only privilege is their skin color and certainly don't feel very privileged. Some hate liberals, or to be more specific they hate the false straw man image of liberals they've created*...latte-sipping, tax-loving, America-hating atheist elites who want to ban guns and God and football and give every kid a trophy just for participating. Most of the folks in basket #3 are suffering from plain old ignorance and can be enlightened. Many of them are good people, but misguided and misinformed.
* kind of like snickerdoodle did with Bob the Trump voter.
posted by rocket88 at 2:20 PM on January 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are three main types of Trump voter.
1. The Deplorable
2. The lifelong Republican who doesn't like Trump but always votes the party line, and
3. The easily manipulated non-political voter.
#1 is a lost cause. These are your racist, misogynist fascists. Fuck them.
#2 is almost impossible to turn. The best you can hope for is a true blue dog conservative candidate for him to vote for
#3 can probably be divided into a dozen more baskets. Some have been conditioned by what little news they watch into being afraid of Muslim suicide bombers and marauding BLM protesters. Some are the economic victims E2000 mentioned whose only privilege is their skin color and certainly don't feel very privileged. Some hate liberals, or to be more specific they hate the false straw man image of liberals they've created*...latte-sipping, tax-loving, America-hating atheist elites who want to ban guns and God and football and give every kid a trophy just for participating. Most of the folks in basket #3 are suffering from plain old ignorance and can be enlightened. Many of them are good people, but misguided and misinformed.
* kind of like snickerdoodle did with Bob the Trump voter.
posted by rocket88 at 2:20 PM on January 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
One dispute: #2 doesn't exist. Either they were so blindingly ignorant of the entire campaign that they're actually #3, or they're forgiving so much hate that they're fully #1. You don't get to look at the hate and violence of Trump's campaign and get a pass because you "always vote party line".
Also, if you think snickerdoodle's description of Bob was a false straw man, I encourage you to come down from Canada to someplace like Virginia and look around. These exact people are everywhere, and exactly as she described. I have quite a lot in my own extended family.
posted by kafziel at 3:46 PM on January 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, if you think snickerdoodle's description of Bob was a false straw man, I encourage you to come down from Canada to someplace like Virginia and look around. These exact people are everywhere, and exactly as she described. I have quite a lot in my own extended family.
posted by kafziel at 3:46 PM on January 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Arizona Lawmaker crafts new law (HB2120) to BAN all college courses, events, & activities mentioning social justice
Is it now necessary for American students and profs to form sawrshill jarshtish groups?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:22 PM on January 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is it now necessary for American students and profs to form sawrshill jarshtish groups?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:22 PM on January 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is my lived experience as the only ethnic minority in a small white town in the rust belt. It's not a straw man if it's real.
Your experience of someone else can never be your lived experience. Lived experience is how things impact you, not your perhaps imperfectly grasped perception of how things impact someone else. Otherwise we'd have to listen to a lot of other people's "lived experience" of what they think Group X is up to.
Your portrait was immediately recognizable to me not as someone who is "happy", but as someone who is spiraling and probably deeply resentful. Do you really think Bob is happy not having a job just because he gets to play video games? In your followup, you even note that uneducated white men are "refusing" to get trained for what they perceive to be women's work, and they're not performing housework or childcare - so why would you think Bob is living the dream?
That lack of empathy makes you a somewhat unreliable narrator about Bob, because it seems like you're speaking with more familiarity than you possess about his internal life, when you can only really observe the external life. That's what people are reacting negatively to.
posted by corb at 5:34 AM on January 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your experience of someone else can never be your lived experience. Lived experience is how things impact you, not your perhaps imperfectly grasped perception of how things impact someone else. Otherwise we'd have to listen to a lot of other people's "lived experience" of what they think Group X is up to.
Your portrait was immediately recognizable to me not as someone who is "happy", but as someone who is spiraling and probably deeply resentful. Do you really think Bob is happy not having a job just because he gets to play video games? In your followup, you even note that uneducated white men are "refusing" to get trained for what they perceive to be women's work, and they're not performing housework or childcare - so why would you think Bob is living the dream?
That lack of empathy makes you a somewhat unreliable narrator about Bob, because it seems like you're speaking with more familiarity than you possess about his internal life, when you can only really observe the external life. That's what people are reacting negatively to.
posted by corb at 5:34 AM on January 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Gentle exhausted reminder: we've been around this same block many, many, many, many times in the last [very very very many long terrible] months, and the argument about being nicer to Trump voters is not going to be resolved, and just inevitably leads to everyone attacking each other and making this whole thing that little bit more ugly and miserable.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:02 AM on January 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:02 AM on January 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't doubt that you know people like that, snickerdoodle. You probably know many. But I do doubt that every Trump voter is exactly the same and all have the same biases and motivations and background.
We don't have to reach all Trump voters to prevent more elections like this, just the least objectionable 2 or 3 percent. They exist. We saw polls shift significantly after Comey's interference and that likely tipped the balance. Do you think all of those people who changed their vote in the last week are like "Bob"? Do you think they're all white nationalists or alt-right deplorables?
No. They believed lies and many of them regret their vote. I don't see them as the enemy.
This isn't about being nice to bad people, or finding some middle ground with the racists. It's about concrete strategy for the next election and about working to change the hearts and minds of the confused and ill-informed people who were duped by a celebrity salesman. We can still treat the rest of them like they deserve.
posted by rocket88 at 12:05 PM on January 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
We don't have to reach all Trump voters to prevent more elections like this, just the least objectionable 2 or 3 percent. They exist. We saw polls shift significantly after Comey's interference and that likely tipped the balance. Do you think all of those people who changed their vote in the last week are like "Bob"? Do you think they're all white nationalists or alt-right deplorables?
No. They believed lies and many of them regret their vote. I don't see them as the enemy.
This isn't about being nice to bad people, or finding some middle ground with the racists. It's about concrete strategy for the next election and about working to change the hearts and minds of the confused and ill-informed people who were duped by a celebrity salesman. We can still treat the rest of them like they deserve.
posted by rocket88 at 12:05 PM on January 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
In the newer thread someone linked to a ten-minute Vox video called "Obamacare in Trump Country" featuring a few interviews with Kentucky Trump voters, which seems to suggest that there are some people who got health insurance for the first time in their lives under Obamacare and were outraged to find out how expensive and shitty it is to deal with in general, and were successfully persuaded that it's all Obama's fault.
posted by XMLicious at 12:35 PM on January 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 12:35 PM on January 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Good article about a formerly blue county in Wisconsin and what's happening in the midwest:
What Do You Do if a Red State Moves to You?’ - Many Americans woke up after the election to discover that they lived in Trump Country. In one corner of Wisconsin, shocked liberals can’t escape an uneasy feeling: They were the reason why.
And this linked book also looks great: Politics of Resentment: Rural Consciousness in Wisconsin and the Rise of Scott Walker
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:32 AM on January 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
What Do You Do if a Red State Moves to You?’ - Many Americans woke up after the election to discover that they lived in Trump Country. In one corner of Wisconsin, shocked liberals can’t escape an uneasy feeling: They were the reason why.
And this linked book also looks great: Politics of Resentment: Rural Consciousness in Wisconsin and the Rise of Scott Walker
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:32 AM on January 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
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