The Widening Gyre

April 6, 2017 3:42 PM

President Trump boasts of a historically successful first 13 weeks of his Presidency. Falsely claiming that Rep. Cummings called him a "one of the great Presidents", he has had some significant successes in the past few weeks. Although the Obamacare repeal and replacement died an embarrassing death, and efforts to reanimate its corpse appear to have failed for now, and his Muslim-country travel ban seems destined to die in the courts (again), nevertheless, the Fiduciary Rule is stalled, his SCOTUS nominee is now moving toward confirmation and he has signed an Executive Order permitting government contractors to once again discriminate against LGBT workers. The Syrian chemical attack has given Trump an opportunity to focus on foreign issues, at which he has fewer impediments to unilateral action, but the consequences of that range from measured to potentially quite dire.
posted by darkstar (2702 comments total)

The only positive I've taken out of today is that, with his 13 week comment, at least we know Trump's also stuck in the time dilation Hellscape with the rest of us.
posted by miguelcervantes at 3:45 PM on April 6, 2017 [48 favorites]

> He has also only held office for 11 weeks, even though it may feel like 13 or even more.

Well, those first 100 days are coming right along. And to think, Day 100 is the day the government shuts down.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

> The Syrian chemical attack has given Trump an opportunity to focus on foreign issues, at which he has fewer impediments to unilateral action, but the consequences of that range from measured to potentially quite dire.

The boss needed a shiny object to distract people, so the Wag the Pussy foreign policy strategy was born.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Giving all my citizenship documents to the Dept of State in the hope they mail them back again, plus passport, has literally never been more terrifying.
posted by corb at 3:48 PM on April 6, 2017 [84 favorites]

We'll get through this... we'll get through this... we'll get through this... either I'm repeating the soothing reality, or repeating a lie enough times that it becomes the truth. It's a win either way, right?... (please let me have my twisted logic this one time)
posted by azpenguin at 3:49 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

On the we're all political now front: I'm at a city comptroller town hall that is standing room only.
posted by The Whelk at 3:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

Re-posted from the end of the last thread b/c it is big news.

C.I.A. Had Evidence of Russian Effort to Help Trump Earlier Than Believed
posted by futz at 3:53 PM on April 6, 2017 [43 favorites]

Oh Gawd. Trump is serving the usual Caesar Salad and NY Strip Steak at his dinner with Xi tonight. No doubt the steak will be well done and served with ketchup. Hopefully Xi will have been clued in and opt for the fish.

But seriously. Does Trump ever eat anything except steak and 50's style salad? (He sometimes eats iceberg lettuce with blue cheese dressing.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:54 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Does Trump ever eat anything except steak and 50's style salad?

Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzlllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by Fizz at 3:58 PM on April 6, 2017 [18 favorites]

Hells! Thank you corb, for reminding me that I need to go and get an Enhanced DL before the WA date extention runs out in June. Despite the statement that the regular ID will be sufficient to fly until next January, it seems that those sorts of assurances are less reliable than they used to be.
posted by monopas at 3:59 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump is serving the usual Caesar Salad and NY Strip Steak at his dinner with Xi tonight.

I mean, I guess we should be relieved that it's not egg foo yung and a pupu platter.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:59 PM on April 6, 2017 [53 favorites]

Well he probably doesn't want to go with the Humiliation Meatloaf just yet.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 4:00 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

The Trump presidency will be the lasting low water mark of American governance. Or at least I hope it will...
posted by jim in austin at 4:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

So I want to state, for what it's worth, that I don't believe all military interventions are necessarily the same. "Just throw bombs at it" is lazy thinking -- both for the critic who assumes that's what will happen, and for the generals or politicians who may decide to do exactly that. We have intervened correctly and effectively before. Just not often. I'm fine with going against the grain of the blue on that point of principle.

But to echo something I saw on Twitter: I would not support any military action by this president, period. He literally campaigned on committing war crimes.

It does not fucking matter to me how much I might want to see an intervention in Syria. Doesn't matter how sure I am that our military is not made up of crazed murderers and wannabes. The commander-in-chief cannot be trusted in any way, shape, or form, and the Secretary of Defense has turned out to be far less than the "adult in the room" so many were assured he'd be (including myself, caveats or no).

Dude promised war crimes. He advocated killing the families of suspected terrorists, and his first military action was a commando raid that netted a double-digit civilian body count of mostly children.

So in principle? I'm not saying all interventions are bad. In practice? Any military intervention by this president is inevitably going to be fucking awful.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:02 PM on April 6, 2017 [170 favorites]

> The Trump presidency will be the lasting low water mark of American governance.

There's more than one way to interpret that statement, you know.
posted by RedOrGreen at 4:02 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's like a grim parody of government. "House of Cards as played by the cast of Veep."
posted by My Dad at 4:03 PM on April 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

The Trump presidency will be the lasting low water mark of American governance.

That's how I felt about Dubya. But that blot on our national history couldn't even last ten years.

Not even ten years, before we outdid the disgrace of George W. Bush.

I mean.
posted by darkstar at 4:03 PM on April 6, 2017 [95 favorites]

Giving all my citizenship documents to the Dept of State in the hope they mail them back again, plus passport, has literally never been more terrifying.

Though it may sound like a joke, I am sincerely hoping for you, that under this administration, they still have some postage stamps.
posted by mrgoat at 4:08 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

And the wines are very plebeian as well. Since Trump doesn't drink, I'm sure he doesn't care what is served.

2014 Chalk Hill Chardonney, Sonoma Coast
2014 Girard Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley

At Obama's dinner with Xi he served:

Shaoxing Wine
Penner-Ash Viognier "Oregon" 2014
Pride Mountain Merlot "Vitner Select" 2012
Schramsberg Cremant Demi-Sec 2011

G. W. Bush was also not a drinker. I wonder what the wine was like at his state dinners?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on April 6, 2017 [18 favorites]

Or, indeed, that they don't just shutter the USPS any moment.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

TPM Flake: GOP Has 'No Stomach At All' To Change Legislative Filibuster

He cited Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's (R-KY) comment that there is "no sentiment to change the legislative filibuster."

"If you want legislation that endures, that is durable, then you reach across the aisle, and that's what we have to do on legislation," Flake said. "We'll still have to do that and I'm glad for that. That makes the Senate the Senate."

I am not sure whether to snort in derision or roll my eyes. Maybe I'll do both.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:15 PM on April 6, 2017 [22 favorites]

I am not sure whether to snort in derision or roll my eyes. Maybe I'll do both.

do whatever the appropriate reaction is to enormous, fiscal-stability-destroying tax cuts for the rich is

because that's the reason they'll eventually nuke the legislative filibuster
posted by mightygodking at 4:20 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

It reminds me of that scene in Futurama where Bender remarks to the Robot Devil, "I forgot you could tempt me with things I want." and then immediately capitulates.
posted by mrgoat at 4:22 PM on April 6, 2017 [26 favorites]

13 weeks?
Is everything a TV show for this un-reality star?
Is he celebrating getting picked up for a second half-season?
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:22 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

2014 Chalk Hill Chardonnay, Sonoma Coast

Seriously? That's a $19 bottle. Christ.
posted by suelac at 4:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

And I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to run out on the check.
posted by mrgoat at 4:30 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

2014 Girard Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley

And if this is just the plain Napa Valley, it is only $25

If it is the Rutherford, then it would be $75. But that is seriously young for a Cab.

Obama's Merlot was probably amazing. And I don't even like Merlot.
posted by monopas at 4:30 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm talking with a co-worker today. We're talking about living in different places in the United States. Detroit comes up. She asserts that the city is broke because of corruption. I point out that the auto industry in the city went away. Then, she asserts, without irony, that Trump has said that he'll bring the auto industry back to Detroit through tax policy and that she thinks he might be able to do it.

I need to stop talking to people at work.
posted by rdr at 4:31 PM on April 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

He's serving a 2014 Cabernet Sauvignon? Trump's really gone too far, now. Many (most?) Napa wineries won't release their 14s until this fall. And even then, they'll be way too young.
posted by notyou at 4:35 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Maybe it's the only wine that pairs well with well-done steak and ketchup?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:37 PM on April 6, 2017 [63 favorites]

Can he face trial in the Hague for Crimes Against Wine?
posted by medusa at 4:37 PM on April 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

because that's the reason they'll eventually nuke the legislative filibuster

Oh it's gone. Don't think for a minute that if things really start collapsing they won't ram legislation through with a brand-new freshly-minted simple majority rule. Hell, they'll probably just throw Robert's Rules out the window, draft a document, 'yea' it and call it a day.

Moderate and establishment Rs have no illusions about the purpleness of non-redbelt states, and they see blood in the eyes of their opposition. They're going to get as much done as they can, and I predict that they'll even throw in some spoiler tactics towards the end, which is utter shit, but to be expected.
posted by eclectist at 4:38 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

I'm taking a bit of morbid pleasure in trying to guess what this comment was reacting to. No shortage of possibilities!
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

He's serving a 2014 Cabernet Sauvignon? Trump's really gone too far, now. Many (most?) Napa wineries won't release their 14s until this fall. And even then, they'll be way too young

It's probably a 2004, and Trump had the label altered because he thinks fresher wine is better.
posted by COD at 4:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [20 favorites]

Will the masturbation bill get a House committee hearing?

A satirical bill that would penalize men for masturbating is now in the hands [I see what you did there!] of a House committee panel.

On Tuesday, House Bill 4260 was referred to the House State Affairs Committee, the panel that typically hears legislation related to abortions. State Rep. Jessica Farrar, D-Houston, filed the bill last month to mimic and satirize current and proposed regulations that have been criticized for restricting women’s access to abortions.

Farrar’s bill, named the Men’s Right to Know Act, calls “masturbatory emissions” an “act against an unborn child, and failing to preserve the sanctity of life.”

The bill contains provisions that would also put restrictions on vasectomies, Viagra prescriptions and colonoscopies, including:

* The state must create an informational booklet called “A Man’s Right to Know” that contains information and illustrations on the benefits of and concerns about those three treatments. A man must review the booklet before going through with any of them.

* A man must receive a rectal exam and an MRI of his rectum before any of the three treatments.

That's just a partial list. I know we've yukked it up about this before but I thought it would be an amusing update. "Amusing" in the sense of not amusing at all considering the current state of affairs trying to legislate women's bodies.
posted by futz at 4:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

Trump serving cheap, off the rack wines at a state dinner is the only thing he's done so far that I'm ok with. If only he'd gone further and selected from the Barefoot appellation.
posted by Flashman at 4:43 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Maybe he'll pull a George Costanza—ditch the wine altogether and just serve Pepsi.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:43 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

I can get behind the off the rack wine idea. I can also get behind the idea of Xi showing up with a bottle of Screaming Eagle.
posted by notyou at 4:47 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Pepsi or coke, is the true vin du Americain.
posted by jadepearl at 4:48 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Eh, at least he didn't go buy some $1 baijiu at the Asian grocery store.

I'm honestly a little surprised at how fast the Republicans in the Senate decided to kill the filibuster. No navel-gazing about traditions there.

Aren't they worried about losing the majority and not being able to make life miserable for everyone else so easily?
posted by Trifling at 4:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

No. Even the R voters who hated trump voted for him because they wanted to take back the supreme court. There was no way even the moderate Rs were going to let the filibuster stand. I'm astonished anyone ever thought they would do anything else.

By the way, we now know who McCain is as a moral leader. Can we all stop believing in him now?
posted by frumiousb at 4:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

If Syrian action results in Russian military deaths, does that put pressure on Russia to release the kompromat?

If we drop cruise missiles on Russian occupied airfields, release of the kompromat is probably the best case scenario
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I literally just came here to complain about the post title.... really, darkstar? I am deeply wounded.......also, quit spying on me. I totally am going to eat another brownie in a minute, stop judging.

JK.... carry on with actual discussion of the end times.......
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 5:08 PM on April 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

It's become pretty clear that the only thing that will actually end a conservative's career is if he's outed as a pedophile. Even massive corruption won't actually affect their career if it wasn't for the criminal charges.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:09 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mod note: Trump has terrible taste in wine and is tacky as fuck, MOVEON.ORG you guys.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 5:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [61 favorites]

I do kind of love the idea that Mar-a-lago (French, translation: "Ruins the Lagoon"), with it's $200,000 membership fee and all the gauche trappings of faux wealth that Donald Fucking Trump pours into it, serves the wine from a dirty 55-gallon drum.
posted by mrgoat at 5:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

If Syrian action results in Russian military deaths, does that put pressure on Russia to release the kompromat?

There is no kompromat.
posted by My Dad at 5:15 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think I might start saying "Cauchemar-a-Lago".
posted by uosuaq at 5:15 PM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

Not to stomp on the fine wine rail, but

From the previous, QFMFT: "I just don't understand if there's all this fucking evidence all over the place, why the hell isn't anyone charging/trying/indicting these fuckers for anything?"

Because Republicans control both Houses of Congress and the DOJ. It's that simple.

It'd be swell if we could - do? Something? Like there was a brief tussle as to the viability of Louise Mensch as a human or something, but really at this point just to accept the premise that Trump & Friends accepted illegal and unethical (hah!) work from Russia in exchange for a friendly Ukrane and oil policy, plus a crispy bite of 19.5% of EUR 10 billion. Would be a start. No more healhcare talk. No more Jared's Big Day. Let's go, tme's a-wastin'.

Fun Fact: Russian Oil Giant Rosneft sold it's 19.5% to a Singapore "vehicle". That no one knows who is.
posted by petebest at 5:22 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

It'd be swell if we could - do? Something?

Work to elect not-Republicans.
posted by Artw at 5:23 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Work to elect not-Republicans.

Quickly becoming less of an option. See: judge-ramming, obstructing, rules-cheating cheaterton horse hockey ruling party fuckery.
posted by petebest at 5:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

But seriously. Does Trump ever eat anything except steak and 50's style salad?

I have a feeling that Trump would serve not only serve a beef steak at a state visit by Modi, but offer it to him. And then fall back on the meatloaf as his alternative.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Remember when "Hillary will totally start a war with Russia" was an Uber-lefty talking point? Ahh, we were so innocent then.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:28 PM on April 6, 2017 [44 favorites]

And then fall back on the meatloaf as his alternative.

Knowing Trump the meatloaf would be technically vegetarian.
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

It'd be swell if we could - do? Something?

This made me imagine an Emily Dickinson poem:

it'd be Swell -- if we could Do -- Something
remove the President -- from his Lair
lance the Boil -- the Pustulence
but no body in Washington -- will play -- Fair
posted by uosuaq at 5:30 PM on April 6, 2017 [46 favorites]

This music video is from 2016 is catchy yet also a bit disturbing. Somewhat on topic, somewhat not. Didn't think it quite needed an FPP but some in thread may find it uplifting and/or amusing. By Kawehi (previously). Trigger warning: dancing[real] Trumps[fake].
posted by Sparx at 5:32 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Card Cheat: I'm taking a bit of morbid pleasure in trying to guess what this comment was reacting to. No shortage of possibilities!

Yeah, anything you guess is a correct answer: pretty much Life is starting to get to me this month. :7(
posted by wenestvedt at 5:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm really glad the nuclear option thing is done. And I'm glad the Democrats did what they did.

If the Democrats were in any sense required to assent to Gorsuch's nomination in order to preserve their right to obstruct his nomination, then they de facto didn't have the right to obstruct it, the only thing that was in place was a very fig leaf of Republican concern for norms.

That fig leaf was already looking pretty shriveled, dry, and cracked with their unprecedented use of the filibuster during Obama and similarly unprecedented use of the confirmation process to do absolutely no confirmation for Garland, a nominee who by any reasonable standard deserved consideration if not confirmation.

Inviting the Republican party to dispense with the pretense that they cared about it was almost like telling a friend to remove a piece of spinach from their teeth.
posted by wildblueyonder at 5:37 PM on April 6, 2017 [52 favorites]

Maybe he'll pull a George Costanza—ditch the wine altogether and just serve Pepsi.

Well Bannon was going to bring the Cinnamon Babka but THAT'S out the window now...
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

I have no idea what it could contain that would teach us any more than what we already know.

What would bother voters is a very different question from what would embarrass Trump. The latter is the only thing the Russians care about. And video of his atypically small penis is something that I'd wager Trump would give a lot not to have public.
posted by msalt at 5:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Knowing Trump the meatloaf would be technically vegetarian.

In a just universe he'd be eating nutraloaf.
posted by peeedro at 5:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

There is one way I could see the cosmic balance being restored after this Gorsuch mess.

1. The Dems take back the Senate in 2018 (admittedly unlikely).

2. Kennedy retires shortly thereafter and Trump nominates his replacement.

3. The Dems say hell no and sit on the nomination for a couple of years (the precedent is established).

4. A Dem wins the White House in 2020, and nominates a very qualified, liberal Justice in the tradition of RBG.

5. The nomination sails through because there is no filibuster rule.

The result: the GOP has traded their Scalia for a Gorsuch, but we traded Kennedy for an RBG2.

Chances of happening: slim, given so many hurdles. But the path is conceivably there. And I am so, so desperate for any ray of hope right now.
posted by darkstar at 5:45 PM on April 6, 2017 [46 favorites]

Any chance they just throw Gorsuch the fuck out after 2020?
posted by Artw at 5:50 PM on April 6, 2017

I don't mean to cloud darkstar's ray of hope, but ... it has been written in many articles that the Dems have essentially zero chance of taking the Senate in 2018.

And as for Kennedy, it looks like the GOP is encouraging him to retire asap: Trump’s hidden back channel to Justice Kennedy: Their kids.

I really wish there was better news out there.
posted by StrawberryPie at 5:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

aren't there a lot of ways senators can slow down the senate's business to a crawl? - call it fallout from the nuclear option

the republicans have killed our government dead - over half of the people - those who voted for the majority party that isn't running the country - have no representation and no reason to view this system as legitimate

it's probably way too early for a revolution - but one will come
posted by pyramid termite at 5:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Sen. Donnelly to Dem colleagues: ‘I don’t work for you’

Link is a small amount of text and a video. Donnelly says he works for Hoosiers.
posted by futz at 5:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's hoping Hoosiers have words with him about that.
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

does that mean he has to wear a short dress?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:57 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yeah, I'm afraid the most realistic scenario we're looking at is that Trump gets to replace Kennedy with another Gorsuch sometime within the next four years. And maybe Clarence Thomas, too.

At that point, kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye, at least in its implementation, if not in toto. Along with a raft of other civil rights protections. And then we are left playing defense for a generation, as nearly all of the oldest justices are on the liberal wing.

The next few decades of SCOTUS jurisprudence are going to suck.
posted by darkstar at 6:03 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

What's the point of saying it's impossible? People would have said the Tea Party revolution was impossible. Literally what is the point? If it's impossible, then we're screwed, so we may as well assume it is possible and carry on.
posted by frumiousb at 6:05 PM on April 6, 2017 [64 favorites]

And-- on another note-- where the hell is the DNC? I just saw this scary bit of news from Upstate New York. Can they literally not find anyone to stand up? And why isn't the call going out from the rooftops for *anyone* to run.
posted by frumiousb at 6:05 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Jesus, this is depressing. Is there any good news to give me any shred of hope that the rest of my life won't be a dark spiral downward into full rightwing extremism?
posted by triggerfinger at 6:06 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Chicago property has a cocktail called The Beauregard

Violet Beauregarde?
posted by Artw at 6:10 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

My city comptroller meeting was all about protecting immigrants and battling real estate developers and the NY progressive caucus just announced a 18$ min wage by 2018 imitative and they've been present at some dem soc events to indicate they're willing to work with us.

I mean they always say you start with dog catchers but we do have more socialists in city councils now then we did last year.
posted by The Whelk at 6:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

Link is a small amount of text and a video. Donnelly says he works for Hoosiers

Hoosier daddy?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's started. 50+ Tomahawk missiles have hit their target in Syria, an airfield near Homs.
posted by Justinian at 6:12 PM on April 6, 2017 [38 favorites]

Yes, let's get more coal miners working: Kentucky coal museum switching to solar power. "It is a little ironic," Robinson said to WYMT, "But you know, coal and solar and all the different energy sources work hand-in-hand. And, of course, coal is still king around here."
posted by adamg at 6:12 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Chicago property has a cocktail called The Beauregard

The rest of the cocktail names are evidence supporting they hypothesis that for whatever reason Republicans just can't do humor.
posted by mikelieman at 6:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

And we just bombed Syria.

@BraddJaffy
NBC NEWS: U.S. has launched missile strikes on al-Shayrat military airfield near Homs, Syria
posted by chris24 at 6:14 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's started. 50+ Tomahawk missiles have hit their target in Syria, an airfield near Homs.

Yup, they just interrupted Rachel Maddow to report on that.

I don't like living in interesting times. I can't believe the Republicans would rather let this country burn when they have had the power to turn things around all along.
posted by Salieri at 6:14 PM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump just fired missiles into a Russian ally.

It's been an honor, folks.

Could someone call the mothership? I think we're done here.
posted by Archelaus at 6:15 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Tillerson went from "leave Assad alone" to missile strikes tonight?

This is totally totally fucked up. Am I to believe that this government suddenly became competent? No way in hell!
posted by futz at 6:16 PM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

There are some good things. Feminism is popular again. Print media subs spike every time he says it's failing. Donations to the ACLU have increased to by an order of magnitude. The Republican hate machine is splitting apart. Bullshit is being called bullshit.
posted by adept256 at 6:17 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

It's started. 50+ Tomahawk missiles have hit their target in Syria, an airfield near Homs.

1.59 * 50 = 79.5 million dollars

Good day to be holding Raytheon and McDonald Douglass stock, eh?
posted by mikelieman at 6:17 PM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

I for one am tired of winning.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:17 PM on April 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

Humanity had a good run.
posted by Yowser at 6:17 PM on April 6, 2017

I don't think this is competence, no. Fucking terrifying more like.
posted by Artw at 6:17 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does this signify a sudden break of being buddies with Putin?
I'm so confused...
Will we be at war with Russia if we hit and kill Russian personnel?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:18 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Could someone call the mothership? I think we're done here.

Well, first we need the Mothership Connection....
posted by mikelieman at 6:18 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Welp.

Could I have a second helping of the sorbet?
posted by goHermGO at 6:19 PM on April 6, 2017

About the only bright side I can see is that a Tomahawk strike on an airfield is much less likely to accidentally cause a conflict with Russia than actual airstrikes, so many this will sate Donny's bloodlust and make him feel like a big man and he won't have to escalate further.
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

"War with Russia" is the fast track to the end of the world. Putin is aware o fthat even if Trump isn't. But I can't imagine this is going to end anywhere good.
posted by Artw at 6:20 PM on April 6, 2017

I just hope I read about the nukes flying on Twitter faster enough to post about it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yeah, but a vote for Clinton is a vote for more war. Fuck my life.
posted by notyou at 6:20 PM on April 6, 2017 [71 favorites]

I got in a heated argument with someone I like today about whether the Democrats' efforts to block Gorsuch is morally equivalent to Republican blockage of Garland. He said the manipulation of procedure was the key problem. I said the potential damage that could be wrought by the nominees mattered.

I also found myself feeling, but not acting on, a desire to raise my voice, swear, and use force to express my frustration with his STUPID FUCKING EQUIVOCATION YOU FUCKER HOW ABOUT WE TAKE OUT TO THE PARKING LOT so this nonstop cyclone of horseshit has turned a part of me back into the 11th grade asshole I was so smug to have left behind, which literally no one who knows me would believe I once was. So the coarsening is truly viral and makes 28 Days Later look like a dry run.
posted by Caxton1476 at 6:21 PM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

Suddenly, the supplies I squirreled up in a bout of prepperitis following Trump's victory in November are beginning to look less pointless.

Ironically, this does not make me feel better.
posted by darkstar at 6:21 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

MSNBC is saying the Russians were warned beforehand.
posted by chris24 at 6:21 PM on April 6, 2017 [24 favorites]

Triggerfinger: Is there any good news to give me any shred of hope that the rest of my life won't be a dark spiral downward into full rightwing extremism?

Today I ran into a Trump voter (I'd been avoiding her for 13 weeks) who said she regretted her vote and so did all the other people she knew who had voted for Trump (excepting her parents). I know this sounds like I hallucinated it, but it's true.
posted by acrasis at 6:21 PM on April 6, 2017 [57 favorites]

Spending 70mil on blowing up tarmac is much better than the end of the world, I guess.
posted by Artw at 6:22 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Not only was Russia warned, I suspect they were quite okay with it and perhaps had even suggested the target so as to allow Donny to get his grar on without harming Russian assets or plans.
posted by darkstar at 6:24 PM on April 6, 2017 [47 favorites]

Oh hey a new thread what's going on in here gu--

*opens playlist of soothing woodworking videos on Youtube*
*closes thread*
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:25 PM on April 6, 2017 [56 favorites]

So they warned Russia, who warned Assad. I would not be surprised if it was a parking lot.
posted by benzenedream at 6:25 PM on April 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

MSNBC is saying that it is not known if Russia was warned.
posted by futz at 6:27 PM on April 6, 2017

So they warned Russia, who warned Assad. I would not be surprised if it was a parking lot.

I'm okay with that, if that's what happened. There's enough death already.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:27 PM on April 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

I doubt seriously this was done without Trump communications with Moscow. Please, God, let that be true.
posted by Tevin at 6:29 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Fucking up an empty gesture by blowing up the wrong parking lot is totally within this idiots capacity.

If that is basically what was arranged how much diplomacy do you think Russia has done in the last 24 hours to make this happen? Fuckers at least put in the effort.
posted by Artw at 6:30 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

I fucking hate half of this country.
posted by maxwelton at 6:31 PM on April 6, 2017 [63 favorites]

I doubt seriously this was done without Trump communications with Moscow.

At this point, I doubt it was done without Putin's orders.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:31 PM on April 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

Not only was Russia warned, I suspect they were quite okay with it and perhaps had even suggested the target so as to allow Donny to get his grar on without harming Russian assets or plans.

Yeah, maybe I'm naive about the political ramifications or too cynical (join the club right?) or too paranoid, but I have a hard time taking this seriously as a opening salvo for a genuine conflict with Russia.

It gives the press something to point to that counters the Russian puppet picture that's been emerging, let's him pretend to be a real big boy, uh, president, and I'd imagine Putin wouldn't balk at the price of trading a few of his citizens lives for the chance of keeping his cronies in the US in power a little longer.
posted by The Shoodoonoof at 6:33 PM on April 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Wapo
The operation, which the Trump administration authorized in retaliation for a chemical attack killing scores of civilians this week, dramatically expands U.S. military involvement in Syria and exposes the United States to heightened risk of direct confrontation with Russia and Iran, both backing Assad in his attempt to crush his opposition,
posted by adamvasco at 6:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

50+ missiles bombed the air base they think the chem attack was launched from.
posted by futz at 6:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

but but but "mad dog," the voice of reason....
posted by entropicamericana at 6:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Assad is a fucking idiot. If he's just held back he's have US troops fighting his battles for him eventualy, now that's going to be super tricky.
posted by Artw at 6:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

And-- on another note-- where the hell is the DNC? I just saw this scary bit of news from Upstate New York. Can they literally not find anyone to stand up? And why isn't the call going out from the rooftops for *anyone* to run.


I know it's kind of dwarfed by the Syria thing but from the linked article:
picking up his two-year-old and eleven-month-old children from a sitter. That's when an unidentified person in a pickup truck threw a full soda container at him. Treiman said he was hit in the back as he turned to shield the child he was holding....the man who threw the can yelled "liberal scumbag" before driving away from the scene.

Shitty little cowards.
posted by The Shoodoonoof at 6:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [35 favorites]

It strikes me that a great way for Trump to deflect attention from his Russia/election connections is to strike a target in defiance of Russia, and that I didn't think of this before is weirdly upsetting.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Isn't he at Mar Largo? He launched 50 missiles against a Russian client state from his fucking golf course?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [51 favorites]

Outside it's America.
posted by 4ster at 6:42 PM on April 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Hole in one!
posted by benzenedream at 6:42 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

"now watch this drive"
posted by entropicamericana at 6:43 PM on April 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

T.D. Strange: Isn't he at Mar Largo? He launched 50 missiles against a Russian client state from his fucking golf course?

Pence was in the situation room apparently. Intelligence expert Malcolm Nance correctly predicted a future military action earlier tonight when it was announced Pence would be returning to the White House after dinner.
posted by bluecore at 6:44 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

What gives the United States the legal right to bomb another country, regardless of how horrible they are?

1) We signed the UN Charter, the foundational treaty of the United Nations.
Fuck, it was our idea.

2) Chapter VII of the UN Charter only allows military force:
a) with the authorization of the Security Council (Article 42),
b) In self-defense (Article 51)

3) According to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, "...all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land."

Conclusion: this is illegal under US and international law. What am I missing?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:44 PM on April 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

McCain and Graham are already cheering for Trump.
posted by monopas at 6:46 PM on April 6, 2017

Kikaracha, you are presupposing that the rule of law applies anymore
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

What am I missing?

The Democrats are powerless, and the Republicans don't care about what's legal. And the US has always been ok with ignoring international law.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [25 favorites]

What gives the United States the legal right to bomb another country, regardless of how horrible they are?

Cratering poll numbers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 PM on April 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

Conclusion: this is illegal under US and international law. What am I missing?

Nothing. It's illegal when Trump did it, it was illegal when Obama did it in some other places, and it was really, really, really illegal when Bush did it on a much bigger scale and killed hundreds of thousands.

The problem with Trump doing it specifically is that he is so erratic and incompetent that we have no idea how this will end. I opposed Obama's drone program but I was never afraid he was going to fuck up and cause a major regional, much less world, war.
posted by Justinian at 6:48 PM on April 6, 2017 [52 favorites]

Isn't he at Mar Largo?

CNN reported earlier (over an hour ago?) That the Xi and wife had left Mar a Lago and I thought "that was early. Huh" I am sure they are having a great visit! This attack is probably trump showing Xi how big his penis is.
posted by futz at 6:49 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Intelligence expert Malcolm Nance correctly predicted a future military action earlier tonight when it was announced Pence would be returning to the White House after dinner.

Oh good I was worried he'd be starting World War 3 on an empty stomach.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:49 PM on April 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Cratering poll numbers

The thing is that his supporters don't care about Syria or what horrible things Assad does there. I can't see them cheering this on; I can see them wondering why he's not blowing up people at the border or something like that, but not being all excited about this.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:49 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

It was also illegal when Clinton did it against Saddam and Sudan, right?
posted by Apocryphon at 6:50 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is something the child king of North Korea would do to assert dominance on the world stage.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

USA USA USA watch the shares in arms companies.
posted by adamvasco at 6:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

>This attack is probably trump showing Xi how big his penis is.

Also, I'd be a teensy weensy bit worried that Mar-a-Lago might be a target for attack.
posted by porpoise at 6:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

It was also illegal when Clinton did it against Saddam and Sudan, right?

Bill Clinton? I assume so but I was young enough I wasn't nearly as politically aware so could be missing some nuances there. I mostly was playing video games and eating everything in the fridge.
posted by Justinian at 6:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's been illegal in every military action since WWII, as that was the last time Congress actually declared war.
posted by COD at 6:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

The thing is that his supporters don't care about Syria or what horrible things Assad does there.

There's crying and dead muslims on the TeeVee. Your racist uncle won't need viagra for a week, and he'll give extra thanks to White Jesus at church on Sunday.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

August 29, 2013: 'What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval. ' - toddler twitter.
posted by Dashy at 6:53 PM on April 6, 2017 [18 favorites]

Also, I'd be a teensy weensy bit worried that Mar-a-Lago might be a target for attack.

Or of course every other building with the name Trump on it in the whole world.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:54 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Also, I'd be a teensy weensy bit worried that Mar-a-Lago might be a target for attack.

You know who DOES have missiles that can reach the United States, right?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:54 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

A Tomahawk missile costs 1.41 million so 50 of them is roughly equal to 23 trips to Mar-a-Lago...For the record.
posted by adamvasco at 6:55 PM on April 6, 2017 [25 favorites]

Tillerson went from "leave Assad alone" to missile strikes tonight?
...
The operation, which the Trump administration authorized in retaliation for a chemical attack killing scores of civilians this week, dramatically expands U.S. military involvement in Syria and exposes the United States to heightened risk of direct confrontation with Russia and Iran
...
Isn't he at Mar Largo? He launched 50 missiles against a Russian client state from his fucking golf course?

i think I'm going to call this the Leeroy Jenkins gambit - there is a complicated military situation with no particularly good options, and lots of very bad potential outcomes, which requires a lengthy, detailed strategy crafted with the input of seasoned experts, who... ah, shit, here we go. Never mind.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 6:55 PM on April 6, 2017 [88 favorites]

You know who DOES have missiles that can reach the United States, right?

Russia, China, India, Israel, France! I think the UK has some sub-based ICBMs but not land based ones AFAIK.
posted by Justinian at 6:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

BTW wasn't it Hillary Clinton who suggested taking out Assad's airports? Trump is taking HRC's advice now?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

And then we are left playing defense for a generation, as nearly all of the oldest justices are on the liberal wing.

Remember when "Hillary is too rightwing" was a lefty talking point?

God, if I went back in time, the necks I would wring.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:57 PM on April 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

Also, I'd be a teensy weensy bit worried that Mar-a-Lago might be a target for attack.

From whom? Syrian Ba'athists? Assad's intelligence services? Russian Spetsnaz operatives? Hezbollah? Out of all the factions in the conflict to attack, Trump has just attacked the one most resembling an actual nation-state that fights conventional battles, not through terrorism.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:57 PM on April 6, 2017

The thing is that his supporters don't care about Syria or what horrible things Assad does there. I can't see them cheering this on; I can see them wondering why he's not blowing up people at the border or something like that, but not being all excited about this.

He's killing brown Muslims. They'll love it.
posted by chris24 at 6:58 PM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh lord, so we go from "let Syria deal with Assad" to "this cannot stand" in the span of a week, when nothing had fundamentally changed (it's not as though Assad's use of chemical weapons was some brand new thing, and let's not act like everything else he's been doing hasn't been a war crime), and now Trump tosses some missiles over to get his approval rating up a couple points. Bravo.
posted by Room 101 at 7:00 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

It was also illegal when Clinton did it against Saddam and Sudan, right?

Against Libya was in retaliation for harboring Al Qaeda bases and the bombing of two American embassies. Iraq was a UN Security Council authorized action. So, not really the same. Like, at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [26 favorites]

Dear President Trump:

All of those babies that you claim you were trying to avenge with your attack would also have been spared if you hadn't banned them from entering this country.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [116 favorites]

"So-called":

There is only one White House. It is in Washington D.C., and it is owned by the U.S. federal government. It is sometimes and rightly called 'The People’s House,' because we the people own it, and we vote to elect the president who lives and works in it. No one profits financially when a state visit is held at the White House.

Mar-a-Lago is a private facility owned by Trump himself. When he hosts state visits there, not only does someone personally profit from it, that someone is Trump himself. Using Mar-a-Lago for official state business goes against everything that the actual White House stands for.

posted by kirkaracha at 7:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [134 favorites]

Russia -- check.
China -- well duh, like being the point, check.
India -- can get here, but how's their targeting?
Israel -- wait, what?
France -- most likely, they have a space program and blew up half the south Pacific testing
UK -- most definitely, even if just from subs. If your nuclear triad has only one leg you want it to be subs.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:02 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

A reminder that those babies we all saw being gassed will be banned from the US if Potus gets his way. [link to tweet]

To this administration: You won't be forgiven anything.
posted by yasaman at 7:02 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump's statement sounds like he's using a $5 microphone.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:02 PM on April 6, 2017

Well, I was googling around and found the playbook.

Hillary Clinton Is Wrong on Syria
Max Reibman

February 28, 2016

In the absence of a “moderate” opposition, it’s time for Clinton to recognize that the only real way of defeating ISIS and stabilizing Syria is to work with Iran, Russia and the regime. There is no alternative. ISIS is the existential threat to the United States. The Paris attackers pledged allegiance to ISIS as did the shooters in San Bernardino. It was ISIS, not the Ayatollas, the Revolutionary Guards or President Rouhani that motivated the San Bernardino shooters to slaughter their defenseless co-workers.

Clinton represents a welter of contradictions. On one hand, she supports the nuclear agreement with Iran, dismissing the notion that the agreement presents a real threat to Israel. On the other hand, she remains incapable of admitting a reality—that Iranian troops are already in Syria—and clumsily playing the Israel card to add credibility to her flawed argument. Hillary has asserted that “inviting Iranian troops into Syria” would put them on Israel’s “doorstep.” If Hillary was truly concerned about Israeli security, surely she would care more about a nuclear-armed Iran rather than Iranian troops in Syria with a mandate to engage ISIS.

posted by mikelieman at 7:03 PM on April 6, 2017

Anderson Cooper, who doesn't need to suck up to anybody, just let some jackass reporter slide with calling mar a Lago the southern White House.
posted by Yowser at 7:03 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Israel -- wait, what?

The Jericho III nuke ICBMs!
posted by Justinian at 7:03 PM on April 6, 2017

BTW wasn't it Hillary Clinton who suggested taking out Assad's airports? Trump is taking HRC's advice now?

Hillary Clinton: US should 'take out' Assad's air fields

"Assad has an air force, and that air force is the cause of most of these civilian deaths as we have seen over the years and as we saw again in the last few days," Clinton said in a speech at the "Women in the World" summit in New York City. "And I really believe that we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them."

posted by kirkaracha at 7:03 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

@paulmcleary
Defense official: there were Russians stationed at the base the US struck in Syria tonight, but US informed them beforehand @ForeignPolicy
posted by chris24 at 7:04 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

When I see the inevitable uptick in Trump's poll numbers I will not be able to express my disgust.
posted by Surely This at 7:04 PM on April 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

but but but "mad dog," the voice of reason....

McCain and Graham are already cheering for Trump.

How about this: instead of lionizing the people who kept on telling us Mattis is one of the good ones, that we shouldn't pick on McCain because he's a veteran, etc., just assume they're woefully uninformed and/or delusional and either ignore them or call them on it. They're just going to keep on pulling this shit alongside both-sides-do-it-ism, whining about how we won't let them be allies just because of their Neo-Confederate leanings, and so forth, so maybe it's time to tell them to fuck off and come back when they're ready to live in the real world.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:05 PM on April 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'd like to formally apologize for my comment a few hours ago expressing relief that Steve Bannon was off the NSC
posted by theodolite at 7:06 PM on April 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Why has nobody asked Trump how he can claim to be horrified at the deaths of Syrian children when he vilifies the same children as refugees? Maybe that would have been a better use of time than chatting with him about the stupid subway.
posted by zachlipton at 7:06 PM on April 6, 2017 [24 favorites]

Trump invoking refugees?

Go to hell you ducking monster.
posted by Yowser at 7:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

Guess it's time to restock my poster board, marker and stick supplies.
posted by rouftop at 7:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

futz: "Tillerson went from "leave Assad alone" to missile strikes tonight?"

Lol. As if anyone asked Tillerson for his opinion beforehand. I'd give 4-to-1 odds that he got a news alert on his phone before anyone in the government bothered to give him a heads-up.
posted by mhum at 7:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [38 favorites]

Isn't he at Mar Largo? He launched 50 missiles against a Russian client state from his fucking golf course?

Of course not. Pence oversaw it.
posted by Artw at 7:08 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'd like to formally apologize for my comment a few hours ago expressing relief that Steve Bannon was off the NSC

Who knows. Maybe he was in the turn the desert into glass camp.
posted by dis_integration at 7:08 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

These Republican flip-flops are everything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Jericho III nuke ICBMs!

OK that's pretty recent, but there seems to be some uncertainty as to the actual range. Wiki gives only one entity estimating that it could hit North America. Seems much more likely to be a regional weapon. But I guess you don't really know until...
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:09 PM on April 6, 2017

Syria is supposed to be protected by Russian missile defense systems. Israel has bombed Hezbollah depots there a few times since, and the speculation has always been that this was secretly negotiated with Russia. The most direct line from the Mediterranean to the airfield in Homs goes right past the Russian naval base in Tartus, so if this wasn't negotiated in advance then somebody is making a statement.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:10 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Aw, looks like new friend Rand Paul is off the Trumpwagon.

@RandPaul
Our prior interventions in this region have done nothing to make us safer and Syria will be no different.
posted by chris24 at 7:10 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'd give 4-to-1 odds that he got a news alert on his phone before anyone in the government bothered to give him a heads-up.

Remember, a whole lot of the smoke-without-fire about Hillary Clinton's emails was the true fact that the State Department Ops desk would send her -- at the time unclassified -- emergency updates via Huma.

You know, for actual situational awareness and shit...
posted by mikelieman at 7:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

John Hudson: Many officials at State Department today were completely out of the loop, as were key US allies, about imminent US strike.

Christina Wilkie: NSC staffers were also kept out of the loop until after it had happened, per sources.

Just to be clear: the checks and balances he disregards now are paving the way for when he uses nukes. Can't let this shit get normalized on our watch.
posted by bluecore at 7:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

AFP: Syrian state TV calls US strikes an act of "aggression"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:12 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Kushner Omitted Meeting With Russians on Security Clearance Forms

When Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, sought the top-secret security clearance that would give him access to some of the nation’s most closely guarded secrets, he was required to disclose all of his encounters with foreign government officials over the last seven years.

But Mr. Kushner omitted any mention of dozens of contacts he has had with foreign leaders or officials in recent months. They include a December meeting with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, and another with the head of a Russian state-owned bank, Vnesheconombank, which was arranged at the behest of Mr. Kislyak.

The omissions, which Mr. Kushner’s lawyer described as an error, are particularly sensitive given the continuing congressional and F.B.I. investigations into contacts between Russian officials and Trump associates. The Senate Intelligence Committee informed the White House weeks ago that as part of its inquiry, it planned to question Mr. Kushner about the meetings he arranged with Mr. Kislyak, including the one with Sergey N. Gorkov, a graduate of Russia’s spy school who now heads Vnesheconombank.

Well well well. Surprise Surprise.
posted by futz at 7:12 PM on April 6, 2017 [118 favorites]

OK that's pretty recent, but there seems to be some uncertainty as to the actual range. Wiki gives only one entity estimating that it could hit North America. Seems much more likely to be a regional weapon. But I guess you don't really know until...

Israeli navy has Dolphin class submarines, and yes, it has submarine launched cruise missiles, and all you have to do is park one off Washington DC.
posted by mikelieman at 7:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Tillerson went from "leave Assad alone" to missile strikes tonight?"

Lol. As if anyone asked Tillerson for his opinion beforehand. I'd give 4-to-1 odds that he got a news alert on his phone before anyone in the government bothered to give him a heads-up.

To be fair, he was resting.
posted by petebest at 7:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

And no shit, the Israeli SLCM is called the Popeye
posted by mikelieman at 7:14 PM on April 6, 2017

So in Syria, when the Russians quietly slip away from your shared facility, you better take cover.
posted by awfurby at 7:22 PM on April 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

This attack is probably trump showing Xi how big his penis is.

Well to be fair, Xi probably didn't want to see the real article

Y'know Trump offered
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:24 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Aw, looks like new friend Rand Paul is off the Trumpwagon.

Pff. He'll be carrying water for him again in no time.
posted by Artw at 7:27 PM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

Well to be fair, Xi probably didn't want to see the real article

Xi saw the aged steak of regret and 29 dollar bottle of wine, and bailed out as soon as possible. Is it too late to learn Mandarin?
posted by mikelieman at 7:27 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

God, "civilized nations."
posted by flatluigi at 7:29 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

...might be a target for attack.

> From whom?

Yeah, my noisy snark was misunderstood. I was thinking more domestic terrorism but retconning it, it would be a perfectly diplomatic response to throw shade at Donnie's unzipping of his trousers and swinging his pharmaceutically engorged little prick around and yammering about Chinese anatomy.

Xi: You know Donnie, there's an ancient proverb - 'don't stay under the roofs of jackasses.' Laterz!"
posted by porpoise at 7:30 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Tillerson is apparantly calling Russia either complicit or incompetent regarding Syria.

That doesn't seem like something you'd say to try to keep from having a war. But maybe that's just me.
posted by monopas at 7:31 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm really pissed at Hillary Clinton for saying that. Granted I know Cheetoh Mussolini is gonna do whatever he's gonna do but she doesn't need to give him political cover. And if anyone should know how dangerous it is to trust this dude with military action, it's her.

But now, just like how 45 and his supporters blurt out "But Obama also did [this thing that isn't really like what 45 is doing]" to muddy the waters, they'll hide behind Hillary Clinton as a defense against criticism, too. Fuck.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

That doesn't seem like something you'd say to try to keep from having a war.

No, you're thinkng of an administration that knows what it's doing.

This on-the-job training squad just bombed another country in their first 11 weeks. The same day they nuked the filibuster. And Don Rickles has died. Which, ostensibly wasn't their fault but it's a buy-two-get-one-free kinda day.
posted by petebest at 7:38 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

But now, just like how 45 and his supporters blurt out "But Obama also did [this thing that isn't really like what 45 is doing]"

Tu Quoque, an appeal to hypocrisy. Doesn't falsify the initial hypothesis, but I really don't expect rationality and logic from these nitwits in the first place.

I don't see it as her providing cover. She gave him a strategy 4 hours before he acted.
posted by mikelieman at 7:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

My little brother finishes his BOLC and joins an infantry unit as the attached field artillery officer at the end of May. He anticipated deploying to Afghanistan in January, but maybe things will get a lot worse a lot quicker. I'm feeling paralyzed all over again. I don't understand how this is happening. I'm angry, and sad, and scared. I don't know what to do. I keep calling my congresspeople. I march with my signs. I donate money to Medecins Sans Frontiers, I stay aware and engaged and it doesn't really do anything and now here we are unilaterally bombing Syria. What comes next? What can I do?
posted by ChuraChura at 7:41 PM on April 6, 2017 [24 favorites]

The InfoWars crowd is not happy.

@PrisonPlanet
I guess Trump wasn't "Putin's puppet" after all, he was just another deep state/Neo-Con puppet.
I'm officially OFF the Trump train.


@PrisonPlanet
It's been fun lads, but the fun is over. I'll be focusing my efforts on Le Pen, who tried to warn Trump against this disaster.


@PrisonPlanet
Hey @realDonaldTrump - Americans didn't vote for you to intensify Hillary's disastrous foreign policy.
posted by chris24 at 7:41 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

MSNBC commentator observing that if the air base hit is the one which the chemical weapons attack was launched from, there are probably more chemical weapons stored there and the U.S. missile attack may have caused a dispersal of those weapons.
posted by XMLicious at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

RE the Clinton statement: it is troubling that even though her historic vote to give W. the authorization to use military force was exploited in such a terrible way - a vote which she subsequently said was a mistake - yet here she is arguing for Trump (an even less mature, considered man) to use military force in Syria.

For those of us who voted for Clinton in spite of her terrible AUMF vote, as much as I would prefer her over Trump, it is still really frustrating to see this particular lesson may not have been learned the first time around.
posted by darkstar at 7:43 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Nobody is going to use Hilary Clinton as political cover. At least no Republicans.
posted by dilaudid at 7:44 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Thursday special elections updates:

GA-06:

Day 9 of in-person ev in GA-6 is D 42 R 40, by far the best GOP day yet but still weak in R+20 dist. Over all, D 52, R 31 with 14881 votes

KS-04:

A few thoughts on KS-04, where the GOP is now spending even though Ds have no business being competitive

There is no polling here, but I reallly doubt GOP could be in danger because of R to D flipping. I think it would just be a turnout question

And in a special election that isn't (supposed) to be competitive, turnout is really uncertain and potentially very low

So I can see why the GOP would see Dem early voting numbers and wonder whether a mere, say, 20k more Dems could mess up their electorate

That said, I really can't think of any example of a party stealthily winning a House seat on turnout. If you can think of one, I'll check

posted by Chrysostom at 7:44 PM on April 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Surely these cruise missiles will help us uncover those moderate rebels I've been hearing so much about.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:45 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

the U.S. missile attack may have caused a dispersal of those weapons.

Does that mean destroyed them (or would incendiaries be needed for that) or does that mean we set of a big cloud of sarin there? I honestly don't know.
posted by mephron at 7:45 PM on April 6, 2017

Aw, looks like new friend Rand Paul is off the Trumpwagon.

Pff. He'll be carrying water for him again in no time.

Rand just has to do his obligatory "Government bad! Everything government does (other than sign my fucking paycheck) is bad, bad, bad" shtick.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Something like this was inevitable. Eventually even a dullard President like Trump realizes they have a freer hand internationally. I figured it would take a few more months for him to figure it out.

It sure wasn't long after the neocons grabbed control of the NSC, though!
posted by notyou at 7:47 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

there are probably more chemical weapons stored there and the U.S. missile attack may have caused a dispersal of those weapons.
...which may have been exactly what was intended. Trump has never done anything that wasn't maximally damaging.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:47 PM on April 6, 2017

Idiot Schumer supporting this after the fact. I am going to have so many calls to make tomorrow.
posted by asteria at 7:48 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!
posted by tonycpsu at 7:50 PM on April 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

It occurs to me that apparently the plight of innocent Syrian civilians is bad enough to kill a bunch of people about but not so bad that we would actually consider, you know, letting them into our country.
posted by Justinian at 7:50 PM on April 6, 2017 [35 favorites]

“ISW Analysts React to the U.S.'s Anti-Assad Strike in Syria,” ISW Syria Blog, 06 April 2017

Cf. America's Way Ahead in Syria [PDF], Jennifer Cafarell, et al., The Institute for the Study of War, 2017

P.S. Re Alawites fighting to the death, “Syrian Alawites distance themselves from Assad,” Caroline Wyatt, BBC, 03 April 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 7:51 PM on April 6, 2017

The InfoWars crowd is not happy.

All the pro-trumper "news" sites have been reporting that the Syrian chemical attack was a hoax, parroting what Russia has said about the attack. It's fucking crazy.
posted by futz at 7:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [18 favorites]

Hillary isn't the president so it doesn't matter but I highly doubt she would have attacked without Congressional approval.
posted by asteria at 7:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Does that mean destroyed them (or would incendiaries be needed for that) or does that mean we set of a big cloud of sarin there?

One of the MSNBC commentators said that they did not believe Tomahawk missiles would have the incendiary effect necessary to burn up any chemical agents.

Also BTW, Marco Rubio was being interviewed about half an hour ago and threw in the statement "Syria will not be ruled by Alawites" along with the other predictable stuff he said.
posted by XMLicious at 7:54 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

...and on non-preview maybe that BBC link ob1quixote put up has something to do with the Alawites statement from Rubio.
posted by XMLicious at 7:57 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

P.S. Re Alawites fighting to the death, “Syrian Alawites distance themselves from Assad,” Caroline Wyatt, BBC, 03 April 2017


Well, before the shit hit the fan, the Assad clan was trying to present itself as more-Sunni, with marriages and other ties to Sunni power centers.
posted by ocschwar at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

And a dark wind blows.
posted by One Thousand and One at 7:59 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Okay, who had today down on the "When do the first bombs go off" betting pool?

I have to go to a wedding this weekend (11 hours of driving, yay) and now I'm all, fuuuuuuuck, no news for like, the whole weekend. Then again, maybe that's all for the best so I'm surprised when we get blowed up?
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:00 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Oh, wait, I have this Trump voodoo doll right here and I can slam its head into the table.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

Soooo..... Did Donnie clear with with his boss first? Did Putin sacrifice a few Russian soldiers for Trump's ratings, or did Trump just kill Russian soldiers as a possible prelude to war with Russia?

It's really bad that my **HOPE** at this point is that Trump consulted with Putin beforehand and only launched his missiles after Putin gave him the OK.

Also, Senate Dems, Sen Schumer, and the DNC, now that Sen. Donnelly has declared that he's totally unbound by the Democratic Party and isn't really a Democrat, will you be stripping him of his committee memberships, any Party positions, running a real Democrat against him in the primaries, and not bothering to fund him if by some horrible mischance of fate he wins the primaries?

Because, dude just said "fuck you Democrats", and if you let him get away with that it's not going to be good for the Party.
posted by sotonohito at 8:06 PM on April 6, 2017 [25 favorites]

Trump cares about Trump. His numbers are down and Bannon is down (if not out) and presumably he knows his support for Russia is to blame. Using chemical weapons on children gave him a beautiful tailor made solution to 1) play to his real base-- dumb angry white racist America and 2) Distance himself from Russia without really doing anything.

My prediction is some sabre rattling between the administration and Putin to try to reduce the smoke from the investigation but I would be willing to bet on a treaty appearing post-haste. That is, unless he thinks whatever hold Putin has on him is something he can live with, and then maybe it works out very differently. Trump cares about Trump. Every single other ally will learn that lesson at some point or another.
posted by frumiousb at 8:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

MSNBC is reporting that the tarmac is untouched at the air base. Fuel tanks were hit and the airport is 'disabled' but the runway was not hit.
posted by futz at 8:09 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is it too late to learn Mandarin?

Not at all! Here are some particularly suitable phrases for Trump discussions.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Every elected Democrat with a clearance, be it select committee or from past work, should go to Foggy Bottom tonight and have a chat with anyone with assignments in that region.
posted by ocschwar at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Then again, maybe that's all for the best so I'm surprised when we get blowed up?

Here's hoping your wedding venue isn't within visual distance of any nuclear submarine hangars. Fuck man, we just moved here a few months ago so that my wife could begin using her hard earned PhD to help mentally ill kids and now it feels like, just as many others do I'm sure, we moved into a place that's just outside the red on the bullseye for shit like this.

We voted against this guy. We don't eat much meat. We support native people's plights. We buy locally as much as we can. We avoid sweatshop products. We minimize fossil fuel reliance, with plans to reduce much father in the future. We donate to charities. I dropped a ROTC scholarship a decade ago and broke a tradition of 3, maybe 4, generations of military service in my family when I saw the writing on the wall for shit like the actions of, oh, the last decade or so becoming the norm instead of the exception. I'm just out of ways to not be complicit in the abuse of others or destruction of the planet or darkening of the future in muthafucking general.

Maybe a move to Canada or somewhere sensibly nordic would actually be a good idea. I wonder if the missus would see it as a feasible alternative to an off grid homestead. Bah, humbug I'm in a bad mood, I wish I hadn't even heard about this. At least that way my head can stay buried in the sand where it is happiest these days...

I just want to raise my kids in a world where other folks can raise their kids too. Why the fuck do we continue to make that harder instead of easier? Why do we persist in pursuing some ungodly trend that has few other outcomes than On The Beach or fucking Alas, Babylon or something? Why?!
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:16 PM on April 6, 2017 [51 favorites]

This is theatre war/ reality tv war. Russia and Syria were given notice so there's doubtful many casualties, but it will help boost ratings I'm sure.
posted by localhuman at 8:24 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

I've got to say, I really did not expect Jack Goldsmith, a co-founder of Lawfare and Bush Administration official, saying that this "exceeds all prior precedents under domestic and international law."
posted by zachlipton at 8:24 PM on April 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Lot of "Analysts" with war boners on tv tonight, talking about this "antiseptic" strike
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:30 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

This is theatre war/ reality tv war. Russia and Syria were given notice so there's doubtful many casualties, but it will help boost ratings I'm sure.

I have no idea why the White House launched this strike, but it does satisfy the need over the past days for "we have to do something about Assad."

I know I have felt that way. But strategic decisions must never be made on the basis of "feelings."
posted by My Dad at 8:40 PM on April 6, 2017

Some dude on MSNBC: This is a strong-man act that "primitives" around the region will understand
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:42 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ummm...

@Phil_Mattingly
Nat Sec. Adviser McMaster: "I think what this does communicate is a big shift, a big shift in Assad’s calculus. It should be any way."

@joshrogin
Rex: "You should not in any way extrapolate that [the strikes] changed our policy or posture on Syria in any way." WOW.
posted by chris24 at 8:42 PM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

This certainly pales in comparison to war, but while everything's awful: FCC chairman plans fast-track repeal of net neutrality: sources

The chairman of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission is moving quickly to replace the Obama administration’s landmark net neutrality rules and wants internet service providers to voluntarily agree to maintain an open internet, three sources briefed on the meeting said Thursday.

Oh a voluntary agreement? Let's just get rid of the rules and ask everyone to follow them anyway. I'm sure the companies that have been fighting these rules tooth and nail will still follow them when they're merely voluntary. Why have laws at all when we can just have voluntary suggestions?
posted by zachlipton at 8:44 PM on April 6, 2017 [61 favorites]

Some dude on MSNBC: This is a strong-man act that "primitives" around the region will understand

The US region, I assume?
posted by uosuaq at 8:44 PM on April 6, 2017 [26 favorites]

A few thoughts on KS-04, where the GOP is now spending even though Ds have no business being competitive


I've been following Democratic candidate James Thompson on Facebook and he is doing an incredible job. He is at every debate, forum and town hall, while the Republican Estes is usually absent. Thompson livestreams these events on Facebook and I've watched a couple of them; the audiences, who he usually has all to himself, are very receptive to him.

Thompson is straight out of central casting as the "good" candidate, and Estes is straight out of central casting as the "bad" candidate. If this were a normal world there would be no question but that Thompson was going to win.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

I have the impression that when Clinton said we should take out their airfields, Tillerson and Haley were still saying we wouldn't mind if Assad stayed in power indefinitely? So she wasn't exactly giving Trump cover....

If Hillary Clinton had done this, it would have been step one of a coherent strategy. She talked about safe zones, no-fly zones, sanctions, diplomacy, exit strategies. Does anyone think Trump has any kind of plan, here?

It really burns me up that Trump will take military action nominally in response to humanitarian tragedy, but is still battling the courts to be allowed to exclude Syrian refugees, wants to cut the State Dept's budget, and all but zero out foreign aid. The hypocrisy is just so un fucking believable.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:47 PM on April 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

Fuel tanks were hit and the airport is 'disabled' but the runway was not hit.

You're saying they missed the ground.

Enh, yeah, seems fine.
posted by petebest at 8:48 PM on April 6, 2017 [40 favorites]

Those missiles cost about $150 million.
From the National Endowment for the Arts budget request:
Toward this end, the NEA requests a budget of $149.849 million for FY 2017. At this level, our budget includes:
• Direct Endowment Grants $71.506 million
• State & Regional Partnerships Grants $47.671 million
• Program Support $ 1.950 million
• Salaries and Expenses $28.722 million
posted by mecran01 at 8:50 PM on April 6, 2017 [58 favorites]

Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI), the arch-libertarian Congressman (whose mother is Syrian, by the way) tweets:

Airstrikes are an act of war. Atrocities in Syria cannot justify departure from Constitution, which vests in Congress power to commence war.

posted by tivalasvegas at 8:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [67 favorites]

If you don't crater the runway you haven't actually done anything. I guess it's just a symbol to show he's not a feeble manlet like Obama.
posted by Justinian at 8:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

Rex: "You should not in any way extrapolate that [the strikes] changed our policy or posture on Syria in any way."
posted by My Dad at 9:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hmmm...

More than 100 lawmakers ask Obama to seek congressional approval on Syria strikes

More than 100 House lawmakers -- at least 98 Republicans and 18 Democrats -- have signed on to a letter formally requesting that President Obama seek congressional approval for any military response to the use of chemical weapons in Syria.

The letter, first written by Rep. Scott Rigell (R-Va.), suggests that failure to seek congressional authorization for military strikes would be unconstitutional.

“I’m grateful and encouraged by the strong, bipartisan support this letter has received,” Rigell said in a statement Wednesday. “It’s a clear indication that this issue is not personal to the president, but rather represents common ground in Congress and a deep respect for the Constitution.”

The request by hundreds of lawmakers came as House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) also formally requested in a letter that Obama "provide a clear, unambiguous explanation of how military action -- which is a means, not a policy -- will secure U.S. objectives and how it fits into your overall policy" regarding the situation in Syria.

posted by chris24 at 9:03 PM on April 6, 2017 [34 favorites]

Assorted links:

Tulsi Gabbard, Assad's friend, condemns the airstrikes, says it could lead to nuclear war with Russia, questions whether Assad is responsible for the chemical attack (while at least seemingly acknowledging there was one), and conveniently enough, says we might not even be able to investigate who is responsible because of the airstrikes.

Cernovich and Infowars are not happy.

In China news, here's a photo from dinner. "Next to Trump's wife, Chinas top diplomat Yang Jiechi. Next to Xi's wife, Jared Kushner. No Tillerson."

NYT: In Battle for Trump’s Heart and Mind, It’s Bannon vs. Kushner. The short version is that Bannon keeps steering Trump toward the stuff he had him saying in the campaign, while Kushner has his own thing going on ("you're a Democrat," Bannon told him), and there's reason to believe Trump keeps picking family.

And a question from me: is this all because of the horrific photos? Because this feels an awful lot like Trump saw dead children and lashed out as quickly as possible, given that his administration was singing "hail to the chief" about Assad a couple of days ago. And if that's the case, it's sickening for him to invoke Syrian children and mention refugees in his address when he's labeled the same children threats to national security and banned them from the country.
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Is there some rule of journalism that being married to a head of state means you aren't allowed to have a name beyond 'Xi's wife'?
posted by medusa at 9:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

@Phil_Mattingly
Nat Sec. Adviser McMaster: "I think what this does communicate is a big shift, a big shift in Assad’s calculus. It should be any way."

@joshrogin
Rex: "You should not in any way extrapolate that [the strikes] changed our policy or posture on Syria in any way." WOW.

I keep an internal league table of who is getting the most humiliated by Trump in the course of serving at his court, and I had little hopes of Tillerson ever approaching Christie or even Spicer in experiencing public humiliation. However, he has pleasantly surprised me on that front, and I am beginning to hope to see pictures of him dining on meatloaf at the White House soon. Which is about all I expect to ever extract in pleasure from contemplating his career in public office.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:22 PM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump seems to be getting some major support for this "pinpoint operation."
posted by My Dad at 9:26 PM on April 6, 2017

Trump seems to be getting some major support for this "pinpoint operation."

War is on, Strongman is Strong!
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:38 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Kushner Omitted Meeting With Russians on Security Clearance Forms

This is just flabbergasting. How is it possible that I could literally have filled out his security clearance paperwork better than he did?
posted by zachlipton at 9:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

ABC News: Eyewitness says Syrian officials evacuated personnel and moved equipment ahead of the strike.
posted by bluecore at 9:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [38 favorites]

Is there some rule of journalism that being married to a head of state means you aren't allowed to have a name beyond 'Xi's wife'?

No but there is a 140 character limit on tweets.
posted by Talez at 9:40 PM on April 6, 2017

not_this_shit_again.gif
posted by tonycpsu at 9:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

If only there were some way for us to offer real, solid help to Syrians caught in the middle of a brutal regime. Maybe...some kind of sanctuary or something - a refuge, even.

But, I guess there's nothing we can do.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:41 PM on April 6, 2017 [65 favorites]

If you don't crater the runway you haven't actually done anything.

My hope is that the US military didn't leave the runway intact so that they could use it themselves.
posted by azpenguin at 9:41 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

ABC News: Eyewitness says Syrian officials evacuated personnel and moved equipment ahead of the strike.

Sooooooooo... We spent the NEA's funding on something completely useless.

What happened to "Why do they have to announce this? Makes mission much harder!". So you call up Assad and tell him the shit is coming?
posted by Talez at 9:43 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

ABC News: Eyewitness says Syrian officials evacuated personnel and moved equipment ahead of the strike.

So we spent tells of millions to blow up an empty air base. Great work everybody.

This is going to be a very big thing about what we told Russia and what they told the Syrians now, right?
posted by zachlipton at 9:43 PM on April 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

ABC News: Eyewitness says Syrian officials evacuated personnel and moved equipment ahead of the strike.


Aaand there we have it.

No real damage done to the airfield or materiel except for some fuel tanks. Russian and Syrian staff neatly evacuated beforehand. All a nice little staged event for the media to digest and the discourse to shift toward, enacted by our Reality TV President.
posted by darkstar at 9:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [101 favorites]

And they'll fall for it hook line and sinker.

He'll be polling at 60% by Monday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:51 PM on April 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

We got to spread the word long and loud that we don't support the airstrike and want our reps and senators to speak out against it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:53 PM on April 6, 2017

On the ground in Syria, it didn't hurt the regime. Probably just helped morale and support for Islamist rebels and ISIL. What a clusterfuck.
posted by supercres at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

In Putin's America, tail wag dog!
posted by uosuaq at 9:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

I just want to flag up one story that futz posted earlier today that got lost amid the war, because it seems like a pretty big deal, albeit not as much compared to war: Twitter sues U.S. over demand for records on anti-Trump account

Why the hell is the US Government trying to demand to unmask the identity behind @ALT_uscis? (And the term "unmask" really fits perfectly with the present situation.) Why is this a good use of government resources? And why are they trying to do this through an "administrative summons" rather than any kind of normal legal process? Surely it's abusive to try to use a summons process that's meant for investigating adherence to Customs rules to investigate personnel matters. It seems petty, but going after the alt agency accounts is not an encouraging sign if you don't like witch hunts.

Good on Twitter and the ACLU for taking this on.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on April 6, 2017 [35 favorites]

A couple from BBC correspondent @dalatrm

#Syria citizen near #Shoayrat airfield #Homs: Ambulance movement is incessant. Lots of injured. People w/ cars are heading there 2 help out

##Syria citizen near #Shoayrat #Homs:believe many civilians living near the airfield were killed. Blasts were too massive. We could see them

#Syria citizen near #Shoayrat #Homs: Cousin says "all jets gone. Airfield taken out of service. Can't find any of his mates yet"
posted by supercres at 10:01 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

♪ ♫ And will you please say hello
To the folks that I know
Tell 'em that I won't be long
And they'll be happy to know
That as you saw me go
I was singing this song
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:05 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

My friends on Facebook are going apeshit over this. They bombed an airstrip after warning Russian and Syrian forces that they were going to. Is this really that big of a deal? I'm more pissed that the expenditure of this strike could have been used for something useful, like funding the NEA (which others have noted).
posted by gucci mane at 10:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is this really that big of a deal?

##Syria citizen near #Shoayrat #Homs:believe many civilians living near the airfield were killed. Blasts were too massive. We could see them

posted by flatluigi at 10:09 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

He had landed another contract with the Germans, this time to bomb his own outfit. Milo's planes separated in a well-coordinated attack and bombed the fuel stocks and the ordnance pump, the repair hangars and the B-25 bombers resting on the lollipop-shaped hardstands at the field. His crew spared the landing strip and the mess halls so that they could land safely when their work was done and enjoy a hot snack before retiring. They bomb with their landing lights on, since no one was shooting back. They bombed all four squadrons, the officer's club and the Group Headquarters building.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 PM on April 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

Observers like Haidar Sumeri @iraqisecurity on Twitter suggesting that this specific airbase was one used to carry out strikes against ISIL and al-Qaeda backed rebels, and that those factions are celebrating its destruction.

Shit's fucked and not getting unfucked soon.

I don't have a deep roster of ME Twitter folks so I admit to relying on PPG's RTs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by supercres at 10:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Just as Presidents Obama and Clinton were correct to assume that their unilateral uses of force (e.g., in Kosovo and Libya, respectively) were subject to the constraints of the War Powers Resolution, so, too, should the President act within the constraints of binding treaty obligations. The Clinton Administration never did address this problem in connection with Kosovo [...]

There is no apparent justification for President Trump not to have asked Congress for such authorization here, and to have held off on the strikes until receiving such authorization. Therefore, this case, like Kosovo, might turn out to be a rare case in which the President simultaneously violates both the Constitution and the [UN] Charter.

-- Marty Lederman, Georgetown University Law Center, Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel from 2009 to 2010.
posted by My Dad at 10:12 PM on April 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard: Trump’s Military Strikes in Syria Are Reckless and Short-Sighted

Says the Assad apologist.
posted by futz at 11:09 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump Launched Missile Strikes on Syria Without Congressional Authorization. The post-9/11 war authorization is still being used to justify military actions. That’s unconstitutional.
posted by homunculus at 11:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

The GOP Has Declared War on Democracy: Going nuclear to confirm Neil Gorsuch is the latest example of how Republicans are thwarting the will of the people.
posted by homunculus at 11:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

There will be more clarity soon but ABC news is reporting that both runways were hit:

Eyewitness says Syrian military anticipated U.S. raid

The attack lasted approximately 35 minutes and its impact was felt across the city, shaking houses and sending those inside them fleeing from their windows. Both of the airport's major runways were struck by missiles, and some of its 40 fortified bunkers were also damaged.

Local residents say the Russian military had used the airbase in early 2016 but have since withdrawn their officers, so the base is now mainly operated by Syrian and Iranian military officers. There is also a hotel near the airport where Iranian officers have been staying, though it was not clear whether it was damaged.
posted by futz at 11:18 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Everybody gets something out of it. Trump gets to play soldier, Putin gets some separation from Trump, the media eats it up. Win-win.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:23 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Do you have to be an "Assad apologist" to prefer a verdict to follow an investigation and not the other way around?
posted by moorooka at 11:40 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

>Eyewitness says Syrian military anticipated U.S. raid

That man is a pedigreed son of a bitch.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 11:42 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Do you have to be an "Assad apologist" to prefer a verdict to follow an investigation and not the other way around?

No, but Tulsi Gabbard is an unashamed Assad apologist and has been for some time. She's also cozy with Modi. I would personally sleep better if she were primaried into never being in politics again. I don't trust her at all.
posted by frumiousb at 12:10 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

I need to get this out somewhere. I have been tempted to write to the four or five family members I have in the US, who all voted for Trump, and tell them I think they are less than human, and that I don't love them, and that I don't consider them family. Tell them that the way they voted does not align with the religious ideals that they claim to have, and that they will pay for their hypocrisy in the end. Every day I fight the urge for five or six minutes. I can see that final bit of resolve collapsing in the next days.
posted by tillermo at 12:17 AM on April 7, 2017 [40 favorites]

No, but Tulsi Gabbard is an unashamed Assad apologist and has been for some time. She's also cozy with Modi. I would personally sleep better if she were primaried into never being in politics again. I don't trust her at all.

Is she an Assad apologist for pointing out the inconvenient truth that the primary armed opposition to Assad is coming from salafist terrorists, and that these are the ones most likely to fill any power vacuum arising from Syrian regime change? Iraq, Libya, now third time's the charm. Honestly I think calling her an Assad apologist is about as fair as calling Clinton an al-Qaeda apologist.

(As for being cozy with Modi, so is everybody who matters. Unfortunately the guy won a landslide election in the world's largest democracy.)
posted by moorooka at 12:46 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I completely understand the siren call of wanting to tell family and friends how much damage their support for this administration has caused. I think it may be better though to not give into that desire and continue to live as an example of how even fear, despair, anger and hate can be channeled into positive actions. Instead of telling them that their decisions have caused these problems in the world, tell them that you did an action--donated to a cause, helped a refugee, called a representative, began a run for office, shone light on a transgression, shared a post, etc...--for them. To make the world better for them. I believe that it is their ignorance and inabilty to handle these emotions that have caused them to support these demagogues. Additionally the time you use to tell them is realistically wasted. Put it to good use helping someone else out instead. You can hold a door open for a lot of people in the time it takes to rage at one asshole and the net positive for both yourself and others is surely greater. However, should the need arise to defend others from them, by all means defend and remind them you would do the same for them.
posted by wobumingbai at 1:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [100 favorites]

wobumingbai, this is why I fight it every day. Thank you for taking the time to put that so eloquently.
posted by tillermo at 1:14 AM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Last week there was a CBC radio interview with Timothy Snyder, the Yale historian whose "20 Lessons" blurb about resisting authoritarianism went viral after the election. The first lesson was, "Do Not Obey In Advance." I transcribed some bits that might be useful as talking points for talking to lower-information people (God knows I'v got a bunch in my life who aren't doing anything because they still think President Bannon-Kushner is merely on the more unhinged end of business as usual, and he'll be gone in 4 years):

11:31 "You have an editorial from 1933 in the book, an editorial in a German Jewish newspaper, and that editorial argued that Hitler at the time would not deprive Jews of their rights and that German laws and institutions would protect them. How is this relevant for right now?"
"It expresses a common sense. That's what Jews thought in early 1933. Most Jews thought that once Hitler won in 1933, he would calm down, that most of what he said was rhetoric, and in the worst case, institutions would constrain him. That's what most people think most of the time. Sometimes those assumptions are just wrong. In particular in the US, we saw after November the syndrome of people saying "Yes, we have wonderful institutions." There are 2 problems with that. First of all, those institutions have not really been tested. . . . Secondly, the institutions only work insofar as people care about them and work actively within them and to support them. In other words, if you say "Institutions will protect us," in the sense of I'm not going to do anything, that means that in the end the institutions will not protect you. In the end, the institutions will be taken down one after the other."

16:40 [clips of Trump admiring Gaddffi, Putin] "If you're an American, let alone President / politician, if you're simply an American citizen and you think that authoritarianism . . .being quote unquote "strong," is the way to run a country, you're imagining a very different country from the one that we have now. You're imagining an authoritarian regime in which the leader seems strong, because he can do what he wants, but in fact there's much less power and much less wealth in the society as a whole."
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 1:18 AM on April 7, 2017 [37 favorites]

This is just flabbergasting. How is it possible that I could literally have filled out his security clearance paperwork better than he did?

Maybe you're one of those simple naifs that doesn't want to get nailed on felony charges in 2018/2020?

nytimes:

This is not just bureaucratic paperwork. The form warns that “withholding, misrepresenting, or falsifying information” could result in loss of access to classified information, denial of eligibility for a sensitive job and even prosecution; knowingly falsifying or concealing material facts is a federal felony that may result in fines or up to five years imprisonment.

Clearance holders are often allowed to amend disclosure forms and avoid punishment if omissions are deemed oversights rather than deliberate falsifications, and prosecutions are rare.

Mr. Kushner is the second top White House official to have problems concerning his dealings with foreign officials. Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s first national security adviser, had his security clearance suspended and was fired for misleading Vice President Mike Pence about the content of phone calls with the Russian ambassador during the transition.

posted by sebastienbailard at 1:49 AM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

Surely we could have just sent Kendall Jenner to give Assad a Pepsi.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:13 AM on April 7, 2017 [27 favorites]

well, a short browse of the right-wing trollish comments on zero hedge reveals that a good part of trump's base there is PISSED and feeling betrayed
posted by pyramid termite at 2:33 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Didn't they get the hint when he said he was going to drain the swamp and then started hiring Goldman Sachs executives?
posted by PenDevil at 2:37 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Surely they will come around once they get over the cognitive dissonance.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Didn't they get the hint when he said he was going to drain the swamp and then started hiring Goldman Sachs executives?

It turns out you can't trust a frog to drain the swamp.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

(As for being cozy with Modi, so is everybody who matters. Unfortunately the guy won a landslide election in the world's largest democracy.)

An unfortunate turn of phrase, perhaps, since I think the people suffering under his religious nationalism since he took power actually matter quite a bit. But perhaps you'd like to explain why they don't?

Let me rephrase-- Gabbard seems to embrace Modi's hard right Islamophobia in a way which makes her quite difficult to distinguish from trump's own views. I don't want Islamophobes in office, and definitely not pretending to be on our side.
posted by frumiousb at 2:52 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

AP: Syrian government says at least six people were killed in US strikes last night
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:08 AM on April 7, 2017

Isn't he at Mar Largo? He launched 50 missiles against a Russian client state from his fucking golf course?

His caddy carries the football golf bag everywhere. Trump could (did?) start WWIII from the 19th hole, be home in time to watch the world ignite on Fox News, and then tweet about it from his toilet.
posted by pracowity at 3:08 AM on April 7, 2017

One day a man was beaten and left by the side of the road to die. A Levite came upon him, and the man cried out "Help me!"

"I like M&M's," said the Levite, "but if 10 in your bowl were poisoned, would you eat a handful? I don't think so." He hurried on.

A priest walked by on his way home. The beaten man, growing faint, cried out "Help me! Please!" "I don't lock my doors because I hate you," said the priest. "I do it because I love my family." He hurried on.

Finally, there came a Samaritan. He saw the pitiful state of the beaten man and was moved to compassion. "Something must be done!" he said. Procuring fifty grenades, he threw them in all directions around the man. "That should help." he said, and walked on.

The man died.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:23 AM on April 7, 2017 [231 favorites]

An unfortunate turn of phrase, perhaps, since I think the people suffering under his religious nationalism since he took power actually matter quite a bit. But perhaps you'd like to explain why they don't?

What I meant was that anybody with any power is cool with Modi. Obama gave him a state visit and he addressed a joint meeting of Congress. He's hardly an international pariah, even if he should be. But what are the standards here? Cozying up to the House of Saud and kissing Netanyahu's ass is one thing but somehow Modi is beyond the pale? Practically nobody in Congress could care less about Muslim lives, and there's a difference between being an Islamophobe and recognizing Salafism for the genuine danger that it is.
posted by moorooka at 3:26 AM on April 7, 2017

The difference is that Obama hasn't effectively campaigned for Modi to be elected, and hasn't actively endorsed him as leader over and above other Indian politicians. Gabbard has done both. She's not merely recognising him as the guy who happens to be Indian PM, she actively celebrates him as the best guy for the job.
posted by Aravis76 at 3:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Back to Israel's Popeye missile, per Wikipedia: "The United States operates the Popeye under a different designation according to US naming conventions as the AGM-142 Have Nap."

HAVE NAP.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 3:48 AM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

For example, here she is at a BJP event, singing Modi's praises. That is quite different from a pragmatic recognition of Modi as the democratically elected leader of India.
posted by Aravis76 at 3:50 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Isn't he at Mar Largo? He launched 50 missiles against a Russian client state from his fucking golf course?


Would be typical, wouldn't it, if he also re-wrote the rules for golf.
posted by Namlit at 3:56 AM on April 7, 2017

As someone who was her constituent until a few months ago, trust me, Gabbard sucks and needs to be primaried, for this and for many other reasons. Shay Chan Hodges from Maui ran against her last year and did pretty well considering she had no money and Gabbard refused to debate her or acknowledge her existence. Gabbard's office was routinely nonresponsive (no one even answered the phone most of the time and when they did they were rude); she rarely visits the neighbor islands (i.e. majority of her district). I thought maybe that was just how it was, but now that I have an actually awesome rep (Espaillat) whose office is awesome and friendly and who is constantly holding in-district educational events and other things, it really highlights how bad she is.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:59 AM on April 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

A response to the chemical attack was probably inevitable. The coordination with Putin and Assad makes it pretty clear that they don't mind this. Back in the US Donald the war monger's approval goes up, at least in the ratings. Everyone agrees this is terrible and a diplomatic solution is the only way out. Donald and Putin make pease, leaving Assad in place. Now the Russian probes are ancient history, as events changed the agenda. I thought this would happen. It's happening.
posted by stonepharisee at 4:12 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

The senate is not lost in 2018. TX, NE and TN at the very least are in play if the D's can front credible and likable candidates (populists with a résumé), and put the resources of the party behind them. This means also presenting credible candidates in AL, MS and WY, backing their campaigns to the hilt to watch the fuckers in the bag for Team Russia sweat and answer uncomfortable questions on the national stage - doing this will win the House and more than likely the Senate, as Demographics are on our side. Leave no seat uncontested, no slight unanswered, no hand unshaken door to door, and we shall win. Even in the "hopeless places" there are enough of Us living there to make it a credible race, if the Democratic party chooses to. They should choose to. Registration campaigns, endless litigation to confront even a vague smell of voter suppression at the state and local level, and a concerted ground game run by what we can put back together from Obama's team. Make the Goopers sweat for every minute - NO. SAFE. SEATS.

From there, we use congress to ramrod either a 7 or 11 Justice SC into place when we win the WH in 2020 as a reminder that a loss of across-the-aisle comity has long term repercussions that the Goopers running the show are clearly not equipped to contemplate.

This last point is critical. If they want to steal the SC and set it up as their own personal policy playground, we will raze it to bedrock and build something better the very instant we have the opportunity. Ideally, we'd shrink the court to 7, and put language into the Statute that while there may be 9 justices, only 7 may be empaneled, and those will be selected by the President. Then we watch Thomas and Alito squirm in the wind.

Practically, an 11 Justice SC is where we need to go. Consensus is out the window, so might as well go for a diversity of opinion on majority decisions.

Either way, we must, MUST respond to the Nuclear Option with unrestrained Total War, and won't stop until Citizen's United is overturned and corporations are back to being organizations registered in the public interest, and not people. Maybe we'll return to the bipartisan old ways when the GOP sees a complete turnover of their unpatriotic leadership. Maybe.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:26 AM on April 7, 2017 [68 favorites]

First rule of military strikes: your target should be more valuable than your bombs.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:36 AM on April 7, 2017 [85 favorites]

She's not merely recognising him as the guy who happens to be Indian PM, she actively celebrates him as the best guy for the job.

Well sure, but it's not as if supporting Modi as the best candidate for the 2014 election was some sort of fringe position. It was a history-making landslide victory, lauded by the international press.

Apologies for the derail. I dislike Gabbard for her support of Modi who is a criminal and lunatic. However I don't think she's worse than the others in congress who support all manner of barbarism. It seems clear that she is being held to a different standard for the heresy of pointing out the neocons' "moderate rebel" emperor has no clothes.
posted by moorooka at 4:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Israel's Popeye missile

Ack-ack-ack-ack-a--*mushroom cloud*
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:58 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The reality is that the BJP is quite Islamophobic, Gabbard's insistence on repeating Trump's favourite talking point about how Obama was somehow traitorous or deluded for not saying the phrase "Islamic terrorism" was quite Islamophobic, and the combination of the two facts implies that Gabbard is quite Islamophobic. Does this mean she is the worst, most Islamophobic person in US politics? Obviously not, but then no one has claimed that. All it means is that she is in fact quite Islamophobic and this affects her credibility when she is commenting on US policy affecting majority-Muslim countries like Syria.
posted by Aravis76 at 5:01 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

According to Axios, Bannon and Priebus might be replaced. I'll celebrate when it happens but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:10 AM on April 7, 2017

That's impossible because Donald Trump only hires the best people.
posted by PenDevil at 5:11 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hey guess who already sits next to him and agrees with everything, plus is a stone cold fox, amirite?
posted by petebest at 5:17 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm honestly a little surprised at how fast the Republicans in the Senate decided to kill the filibuster. No navel-gazing about traditions there.

I am not surprised in the least. Talking about "traditions," as McConnell does a lot, is a performance for journalists only (and worse yet, the so-called "professionals" in the DC media buy it, despite tons of evidence to the contrary). They don't mean a word of it, as was obvious all the way back in the Clinton administration.

Typing "Clinton Administration" makes me sad now.
posted by Gelatin at 5:21 AM on April 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

Canadian PM says Canada fully supports U.S. 'limited and focused' action in Syria, continues to support diplomatic efforts (Reuters liveblog)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:26 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's the article from Axios: Exclusive: Trump eyes new chief of staff; House Leader on short list

Insiders tell me that the possibilities for chief of staff include:

House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), who developed a bond with Trump as one of the earlier congressional leaders to support him, and remains a confidant.
Wayne Berman of Blackstone Group, a Washington heavy-hitter who was an Assistant Secretary of Commerce under President George H.W. Bush, and a key adviser on eight presidential campaigns.
David Urban of the Washington advisory firm American Continental Group, and a former chief of staff to the late Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.). Urban helped Trump win an upset victory in Pennsylvania, and was in constant cellphone contact with the candidate throughout the campaign.
Gary Cohn, Trump's economic adviser and the former #2 at Goldman Sachs, who has built a formidable team and internal clout.

I can see Priebus going because I don't think Trump has much attachment to him but Bannon is more iffy. I can imagine that Kushner is telling Trump that Bannon got him elected but he is not a good fit for governing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Bannon got him elected but he is not a good fit for governing.

Bannon looks like a hangover feels.... I guess that is congruent with the current state of affairs, though.
posted by tillermo at 5:41 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

A friend shared The Wound by Ali Ahmad Said Esber, a Syrian poet writing under the name Adonis.

To the language choked by tolling bells
I offer the voice of the wound.
To the stone coming from afar
to the dried-up world crumbling to dust
to the time ferried on creaky sleighs
I light up the fire of the wound.
And when history burns inside my clothes
and when blue nails grow inside my books,
I cry out to the day,
“Who are you, who tosses you
into my virgin land?”
And inside my book and on my virgin land
I stare into a pair of eyes made of dust.
I hear someone saying,
“I am the wound that is born
and grows as your history grows.”
posted by ChuraChura at 5:45 AM on April 7, 2017 [42 favorites]

A response to the chemical attack was probably inevitable. The coordination with Putin and Assad makes it pretty clear that they don't mind this. Back in the US Donald the war monger's approval goes up, at least in the ratings.

Every poll I see shows his approval going down. (Granted, I have not seen any that reflect the bomb dropping, but since popular rejection of getting involved in Syria is IIRC what held Obama from going in with guns blazing, I’m going to guess it will not help him. Ergo, not inevitable. I could, of course, be wrong.)

The irony being that he ran on a far less hawkish platform than did Mrs Clinton.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:51 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

If I were to preach to Trump, I'd start with something he could relate to, like maybe the time Jesus made all those pigs run off a cliff. Losers!
posted by thelonius at 5:52 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Every poll I see shows his approval going down

I'd bet you 100 to 1 that he gets an uptick from this. Americans fucking love to get their war on. They're a bunch of warpigs in war shit. They don't like quagmires that last for years, sure, but they love some shock and awe.
posted by dis_integration at 5:57 AM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

A White House without Bannon and with Kushner in the driver's seat is likely to be (even) more kleptocratic, and more driven by Dunning-Kruger, but with less overt drive to deliberately tear down the pillars of civilization, which I suppose is better for at least the short-term survival of humanity.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:57 AM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

I dunno you guys. I think it's poisoned forever, this thing formerly known as US Government. If the bad guys flout rules that the good guys keep trying to play by, the good guys will keep losing. All this discussion about take back the senate/take back the house...it's just another swing in the fucking pendulum that isn't going to stop swinging to extremes as long as we keep playing with the rule flouters.

I really struggle with: why should we try to save/help/love these Republican shitstains? They don't want to be saved/helped/loved. They made their bed. We don't have to sleep in it, they do. Versus: oh it's the decent/civilized/humanitarian thing to do.

No. It's called self respect to take care of your own world, and choose not to expend your soul throwing good energy after bad. Just because you choose not to combat repetitively self defeating assholes doesn't make you an asshole too. It makes you sane and smart.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

...How about a national divorce lawyer to get this unwanted union over with? They don't want us, and we don't want them. No more shot-gun weddings, let's call off this abusive and unwanted marriage.

A. Men.

I'm not as good at debating as you guys are, & I'm sure everyone will pick this comment apart to tell me what's wrong with it. But honestly, I just don't see how we can salvage the union as one clump. It doesn't want to be one clump, never has.

I don't think the compartmentalized definitions in politics serve us anymore. I think the way out will have to be a new way, just like design, where we take what works, jettison what doesn't and start over however ugly, deadly, messy that may be. Because it's going to happen anyway.
posted by yoga at 6:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

UK -- most definitely, even if just from subs. If your nuclear triad has only one leg you want it to be subs.

Aren't the UK's warheads maintained by US technicians in a facility in North Carolina or something?
posted by acb at 6:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

No we are all in Brisbane on Enterprise-bargain contracts
posted by esto-again at 6:11 AM on April 7, 2017

Would be typical, wouldn't it, if he also re-wrote the rules for golf.

I'd hate to know what he'd do if he thought Smokey went over the line.
posted by Talez at 6:13 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Aren't the UK's warheads maintained by US technicians in a facility in North Carolina or something?

King's Bay, Georgia, according to this article.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 6:14 AM on April 7, 2017

It doesn't want to be one clump, never has.

Problem is, it's not clumps, it's confetti. The divide is rural/urban not north/south or coastal/interior.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

The result: the GOP has traded their Scalia for a Gorsuch, but we traded Kennedy for an RBG2.

Chances of happening: slim, given so many hurdles. But the path is conceivably there. And I am so, so desperate for any ray of hope right now.

My political prognostication is tarnished by thinking (like so many) that Clinton looked like the probably winner, but I don't see 2020 as a more favorable environment for Republicans at all. (Which means it's essential for Democrats to capture as many governorships and state houses as possible, for the upcoming redistricting, by the way). Which means that a Democratic president and Senate could indeed change the composition of the Court in an unfavorable direction for the Republicans, and there will be nothing they can do about it.

It's easy to feel demoralized by the Republicans' disregard of small-d democratic norms, but please keep in mind that these are the actions of desperate people, who know full well they can't implement their agenda by popular acclaim and have no recourse but to cheat. These are not the actions of people confident of holding onto power for long.

Which means that, yes, once again Democrats will have to clean up Republican messes. This time they should not let the people and the press forget it.
posted by Gelatin at 6:20 AM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Administration told the Russians well ahead of time about the incoming missiles, according to ABC News. The airbase was evacuated of most of its personnel and all of its aircraft by the Syrians hours before the attack.

This isn't the tail wagging the dog so much as it is hurling it over the fence into the neighbor's yard. That's $85 million in wasted hardware in a dog-and-pony show designed to distract from Nunes and the Nuclear Option.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:22 AM on April 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

I got in a heated argument with someone I like today about whether the Democrats' efforts to block Gorsuch is morally equivalent to Republican blockage of Garland. He said the manipulation of procedure was the key problem.

McConnell could have followed procedure and blocked Garland's nomination -- he could have gone thru all the motions and then had his majority Republicans reject him, or failing that, at least filibustered with no chance of recourse. The Democratic filibuster may not have been a common procedure, but it was an established one and not unprecedented. McConnell didn't abuse procedure, he completely disregarded it. The two situations are not equivalent at all, and though I don't know your colleague, I sense cognitive dissonance at work there.
posted by Gelatin at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

You guys, it is highly, highly likely that this "false flag" garbage is being spread by the Russian propaganda machine. Don't buy it! Please help counter this message before it becomes entrenched!

Of COURSE Assad used chemical weapons, just as he's done before. It's possible that Russia was complicit in that, since, after all, Assad turned his weapons over to THEM after the last attack as a part of a deal brokered by the Obama admin to avoid air strikes then. Russia might have given them back now that they are openly allied!

But the idea that the chemical weapons attack was actually done by Americans or Syrian rebels is RIDICULOUS.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Swedish media: Truck crashes into Stockholm store, 3 dead


Developing story, but this doesn't sound good.
posted by zachlipton at 6:31 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm just reflexively considering any "false flag" allegations, about anything, to be chemtrail level bullshit now
posted by thelonius at 6:32 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

zachlipton: "Swedish media: Truck crashes into Stockholm store, 3 dead


Developing story, but this doesn't sound good."

If Trump turns out to be psychic, we better pray for Bowling Green
posted by chavenet at 6:33 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Pelosi writes Ryan to demand he call the House back immediately to debate an authorization for use of military force in Syria.
posted by zachlipton at 6:33 AM on April 7, 2017 [49 favorites]

Anderson Cooper, who doesn't need to suck up to anybody, just let some jackass reporter slide with calling mar a Lago the southern White House.

The problem is not the term "the Southern White House" - Mar-a-lago was, before its acquisition by Donald Trump, actually donated to the US government as the Southern White House by the society dame who owned it. They gave it back because they thought it wouldn't be useful, and Trump bought it.

The problem is that he is profiting by using the "Southern White House". I wish people would start saying, "If you want to donate something, donate Mar-a-Lago back to the government and let it be secured by the same, instead of having random big spenders pay for access to you."
posted by corb at 6:43 AM on April 7, 2017 [37 favorites]

Wow, pundits are stupidly impressed by the whole bombing thing. It's like Trump with a teleprompter x 1000.
posted by Artw at 6:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

MSNBC is saying the Russians were warned beforehand.

Thank goodness someone in Trump's administration was that competent.

Of course, that fact means the Syrians were warned too, though who knows whether it was in time to do them any good.
posted by Gelatin at 6:49 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

My fave take isctyat Trump was moved into action because images of dead children shocked him. That seems vastly unlikely compared with, say, being moved into action by being tricked into talking twiddlevabout crossing lines and getting huffy about it.
posted by Artw at 6:52 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

From the Axios list of potential chiefs-of-staff:

Arlen Specter (R-Pa.). Urban helped Trump win an upset victory in Pennsylvania, and was in constant cellphone contact with the candidate throughout the campaign.

While this would be quite a neat trick, I assume they mean Pat Toomey. Who is The Worst, and I look forward to Tuesdays with Toomey if he gets picked. I mean, I gotta get my anger out somewhere.
posted by kalimac at 6:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yes, Standard Trump Procedure: Inform enemy combatants before you attack, indeed before you even bother to inform Congress. I think this was a plotline in season 2 of Dad's Army.
posted by valkane at 6:54 AM on April 7, 2017

Schumer should just say, "Donald J. Trump and Neil Gorsuch are Russian Spies and we need to get to the bottom of all this before moving forward."

#IDGAF
posted by mikelieman at 6:56 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

MSNBC is saying the Russians were warned beforehand.
Thank goodness someone in Trump's administration was that competent.
Of course, that fact means the Syrians were warned too, though who knows whether it was in time to do them any good.

Which means this is Kabuki. Makes sense, and I'm sure after a few weeks Trump will declare a glorious victory despite no substantive changes on the ground. Because those don't matter.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:57 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Pelosi writes Ryan to demand he call the House back immediately to debate an authorization for use of military force in Syria.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Please let's not do this again.

FUCK
posted by dis_integration at 6:58 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Arlen Specter (R-Pa.). Urban helped Trump win an upset victory in Pennsylvania, and was in constant cellphone contact with the candidate throughout the campaign.

While this would be quite a neat trick, I assume they mean Pat Toomey. Who is The Worst, and I look forward to Tuesdays with Toomey if he gets picked. I mean, I gotta get my anger out somewhere.

I'd take Zombie Arlen Specter over any of these chucklefucks.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:59 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

I meant to link to this WaPo story about the "false flag" narrative in fringe media (and from Wikileaks!) in my previous appeal for help help combating that narrative.

Also, regarding whether we warned the Russians, this Vox summary of what we know so far says the US Gov't has acknowledged using existing "deconfliction" channels to let the Russians know we were doing this. (They presumably warned Assad.)

That summary is worth a read in general -- includes comments on motive and strategy, and reactions from other politicians.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:59 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think Congress should have to attach and itemized budget to any AUMF. HERE is *exactly* how much of your tax dollars we're going to spend, and here is *exactly* what it's being spent on.

And a pony.
posted by mikelieman at 7:05 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'd kind of prefer the latter

From the let's do this all legally on the up-and-up standpoint, this makes sense. But once Trump gets a congressional authorization for the use of force he's going to use force like nobody else, believe me. Better that he be restrained by the terms of what the executive believes it can do without authorization, than that he be given legally sanctioned authorization, which he will interpret as complete carte blanche to start ww3.
posted by dis_integration at 7:06 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

If we had not been a racist-ass country lacking imagination, we could have allowed as many Syrians as possible to escape Assad by moving here and told him "good luck running your country when we have all your smart, hard-working people, asshole."

We could still take the people who remain, out of basic human decency. We've got lots of room. But we won't, because we are a racist-ass country lacking imagination.
posted by emjaybee at 7:06 AM on April 7, 2017 [69 favorites]

Bipartisan sgotta bipartisan. This is going to taint them worse than Iraq.
posted by Artw at 7:07 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Those missiles cost about $150 million.

I agree with the sentiment of your comment but I can't find a source to confirm your figure, looks like it's closer to 15 million.
posted by Tarumba at 7:07 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Please let's not do this again.

Obama asked for an AUMF against Assad and didn't get it. That's partly why he didn't initiate air strikes last time Assad crossed this red line...

I don't think Trump would get it either, honestly. The right wing media does not have his back on this one.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:07 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Honestly, it's sounding increasingly like the Russians stood down their air defense systems to permit this strike to happen. If that is in fact the case, I'm not sure what the point of an AUMF is, since the only person who can really authorize military force in Syria right now is Vladimir Putin.
posted by zachlipton at 7:11 AM on April 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

If we had not been a racist-ass country lacking imagination, we could have allowed as many Syrians as possible to escape Assad by moving here and told him "good luck running your country when we have all your smart, hard-working people, asshole."

The best way the US could help Syrians: open the borders

Expanding refugee resettlement would certainly work, would carry little in the way of short-term financial costs, and that would likely provide a powerful boost to the US economy and drastically increase the living standards of Syrians who were able to relocate. Instead, Trump has sought to slash the number of Syrians allowed to come to the US — while dropping bombs on Syria itself.

posted by OnceUponATime at 7:12 AM on April 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Pelosi writes Ryan to the press/herself to demand he call the House back immediately to debate an authorization for use of military force in Syria.

Why bother? Why pretend? I know everyone's a creature of habit but cmon. Have the gloves ever been more off? Along with the President? (Hi-ooooooooo)
posted by petebest at 7:14 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

EXCLUSIVE: Trump White House to Host Seder

Sources at the White House tell us that the Trump administration is planning to continue the tradition set by President Obama of hosting a Seder at the White House this coming Monday night.

The sources did not yet know whether President Trump or his son-in-law Jared Kushner would participate and noted that it is still in the planning process. They explained that Trump’s participation is very much up in the air due to the situation in Syria.

Given the extent to which everyone is ganging up on Bannon in their press leaks right now, I have to ask whether they're doing this just to fuck with him.
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 AM on April 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

So, seder's on, with someone somewhere. Got it.
posted by petebest at 7:18 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

> The irony being that he ran on a far less hawkish platform than did Mrs Clinton.

Yeah, right.

There won't be any cognitive dissonance for Trump fans. Sure, he criticized the Iraq War and expressed skepticism about certain kinds of intervention, but he also invoked Patton at every opportunity and talked about taking Iraqi oil and bombing the shit out of ISIS. The fans didn't hear a critique of interventionism -- what they heard was: Let's do military stuff that kicks ass and not do military stuff that doesn't kick ass.

If that seems like an unsophisticated, Beavis-and-Butthead-esque geostrategic taxonomy, well, there you are.

posted by tonycpsu at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2017 [42 favorites]

"I like M&M's," said the Levite, "but if 10 in your bowl were poisoned, would you eat a handful? I don't think so." He hurried on.

Considering the volume of antisemitic shit we Jews have been dealing with over the last year and half, it would be nice if you would avoid putting the racist words of the Trump children in our mouths in your parables.
posted by zarq at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

So, seder's on, with someone somewhere. Got it.

I'm sure Meredith is all over it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:20 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yeah, his "bomb them and take their oil" sure was a signal that he was going to withdraw our military from all foreign conflicts!

Unsurprisingly, he articulated an utterly incoherent Schrodinger's military posture where we both do and do not engage in military actions on foreign soil.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:23 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Problem is, it's not clumps, it's confetti. The divide is rural/urban

It's not even truly rural/urban

But you know, the 1870s, the 1920s, and the 1950s weren't such great times for "unity", whatever that means, either, and yet here we are.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:24 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The right wing media does not have his back on this one.

That's OK, the rest of the media is currently picking up the slack using almost exactly the same script as Iraq I and II.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:24 AM on April 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

Just to be clear on the issue of Chief of Staff candidates: the article did not suggest that Arlen Specter is a candidate, but rather Specter's former CoS, David Urban:

"David Urban of the Washington advisory firm American Continental Group, and a former chief of staff to the late Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.). Urban helped Trump win an upset victory in Pennsylvania, and was in constant cellphone contact with the candidate throughout the campaign."
posted by AwkwardPause at 7:25 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Given the extent to which everyone is ganging up on Bannon in their press leaks right now, I have to ask whether they're doing this just to fuck with him.

I can just see the end of the seder when they open the door for Elijah: A drunk off his ass Bannon stumbles in, collapses into the empty chair, sculls the cup of wine, and just blurts out "we're gonnfa rxebuild the templie in jerusalem vand jesus is gonna come back and show lal you jjews! DEUS VULT!"
posted by Talez at 7:27 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

So, seder's on, with someone somewhere. Got it.

It's going to be just the seat for Elijah.
posted by davros42 at 7:28 AM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

>>The right wing media does not have his back on this one.
>That's OK, the rest of the media is currently picking up the slack using almost exactly the same script as Iraq I and II.

the liberal media strikes again!
posted by entropicamericana at 7:29 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump's hasty actions move too fast to spend any time reading old news, where "old" means anything more than 24 hours old. Example A: Steve Bannon Is Losing to the Globalists (New Yorker, April 6, 2017), in which John Cassidy writes:

Trump’s approach to Syria may also be changing. In the dystopian “Clash of Civilizations” scenario that Bannon and his supporters subscribe to, Syria represents an important staging ground in the U.S.-led crusade against radical Islam, and an example of what future U.S.-Russian coöperation could look like. But the photographs of children being asphyxiated by Assad’s chemical weapons appear to have given Trump pause about being associated with the Assad-Putin axis. At a press conference on Wednesday, he said, “My attitude toward Syria and Assad has changed very much.”

And here we have TV-ratings bombing in Syria, killing civilians but not impacting the Syrian military airforce (or runways!!).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:29 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's going to be just the seat for Elijah.

Do you mean Tiffany Trump?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

the irony being that he ran on a far less hawkish platform than did Mrs Clinton.

*FLIPS EVERY TABLE IN THE WORLD*
posted by lydhre at 7:32 AM on April 7, 2017 [47 favorites]

I find the implication that Trump cares about kids, any kids, ridiculous. Dude probably doesn't know where his own 10yr old is right now, let alone caring for kids he was banning from the country the other week.
posted by Artw at 7:35 AM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

Eater: Trump Breaks Campaign Promise to Feed Chinese President Big Macs: "I would not be throwing him a dinner,” Trump told Fox News last August of how he would host President Xi if he was elected POTUS. “I would get him a McDonald's hamburger and say we've got to get down to work because you can't continue to devalue [the Chinese currency]." Trump went on, "I would give him a very -- yeah, but I would give him a double, probably a double-size Big Mac.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:37 AM on April 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

You guys, it is highly, highly likely that this "false flag" garbage is being spread by the Russian propaganda machine. Don't buy it! Please help counter this message before it becomes entrenched!

The first tweets under the hashtag #SyriaHoax came from Russia. Cernovich picked up on it; now it's trending in the U.S.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [20 favorites]

*FLIPS EVERY TABLE IN THE WORLD*

I'm gonna guess that a guy who thought Ahmed "Clock Kid" Mohamed got himself arrested for the attention and that Jewish Americans are safe because of Jared Kushner may not be particularly well-informed in general.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

The irony being that he ran on a far less hawkish platform than did Mrs Clinton.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by zarq at 7:40 AM on April 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

On that WashPost list, saber rattling from Trump about Iran, Syria, Iraq, China, ISIS, claims that various nationalities posed threats to the US, vows to win whatever conflicts he got involved in and a promise to involve all 50 states in a massive, massive military buildup. He also wanted a Stalinesque show of military force (tanks and troops) present at his inauguration.

Clinton's foreign policy ideas looked like a cuddly kitten by comparison.
posted by zarq at 7:45 AM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

I'm not as good at debating as you guys are, & I'm sure everyone will pick this comment apart to tell me what's wrong with it. But honestly, I just don't see how we can salvage the union as one clump. It doesn't want to be one clump, never has.

I don't think the compartmentalized definitions in politics serve us anymore. I think the way out will have to be a new way, just like design, where we take what works, jettison what doesn't and start over however ugly, deadly, messy that may be. Because it's going to happen anyway.
posted by yoga at 9:02 AM on April 7

But yoga you and I live in NC-- where do you think NC will end up in the great divide? Where will Austin, TX? Where will Atlanta? Does everyone have to move unless they want to become part of the Great Christian Theocracy?



The problem is that he is profiting by using the "Southern White House". I wish people would start saying, "If you want to donate something, donate Mar-a-Lago back to the government and let it be secured by the same, instead of having random big spenders pay for access to you."
posted by corb at 9:43 AM on April 7
I could not agree more. What if the White House paid Trump for every meal served? What if the White House charged the public to take tours and Trump pocketed those fees? What if the White House gave Trump X amount of dollars for every State Visit. It Is Insane that this is being allowed and seemingly no Republicans are affronted by the idea that DJT is using Mar-A-Lago as both a Presidential Office and his own personal piggy bank.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

The Minnesota Eight Don't Want To Be Deported To A Country They've Never Lived In (New Yorker, April 5, 2017)

Thhe Minnesota Eight are a group of Cambodian men in their thirties and forties with a troubled history in common: each came to the U.S. legally as a child refugee in the nineteen-eighties but later lost his green card after being convicted of a crime. By law, legal permanent residents are automatically deportable if they’ve committed an aggravated felony, and thousands of people every year are deported after completing prison terms. But when these men got out of prison they found themselves in a strange situation. Because of a long-standing diplomatic dispute between the U.S. and Cambodia, they were released rather than deported. Several of them got married and started families; they took jobs, and settled down. Twice a year, they were required to check in at their local Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) office, in St. Paul, Minnesota, but after a few years these visits became routine. Then, last summer, when they each showed up for their appointments with ICE, they were abruptly rearrested, and informed that their deportations were back on schedule.

Last week, four of the men were deported to Cambodia. Three others are continuing to fight their cases while still in ICE custody. (The eighth member of the group was released in February, after proving to a judge that his deportation would have caused undue hardship to his wife and children, who are American citizens.) Of the two and a half million Southeast Asians currently living in the U.S., about fifteen thousand face outstanding deportation orders. The families of the Minnesota Eight have launched an aggressive public-advocacy campaign on their behalf, meeting with elected officials, like Senator Amy Klobuchar and Representative Keith Ellison, and raising legal funds to fight the deportation orders. Some members of the Minnesota Eight knew one another before their arrests, while others met in ICE detention. Their families quickly banded together as they tried to understand what was happening. “In the Cambodian community, we usually don’t like to talk about this—people are embarrassed,” Nicki Chhoeurng, the niece of one of the Minnesota Eight, told me. “In Minnesota, it’s the younger generation that’s standing up, because this makes no sense.”

Fuck you, jackboot ICE thugs. Fuck yeah, younger generation!
posted by filthy light thief at 7:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [46 favorites]

It Is Insane that this is being allowed and seemingly no Republicans are affronted by the idea that

You could really go any number of ways here.
posted by petebest at 7:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

yoga While I can understand the attraction of the "divorce" narrative, it's an awful idea because it means abandoning people like me (and the entire population of Austin, San Antonio, and Houston) to the revenge of the people you want a divorce from.

There are only Red States in the sense that a majority of the population in those states votes Republican, but there's no such thing as a state where 100% of the population votes Republican, and even the more deeply Red States are only 70% Republican or so.

What you're urging is that, since living with Republicans is annoying, the people in the Blue States should just abandon all the LGBT people in Mississippi to be at best tortured and imprisoned, and at worst simply killed. You're arguing that people like me should be left to be rounded up and put against the wall and shot.

At best you're looking at an unprecedented refugee crisis with all the humanitarian catastrophe that represents in the Blue States as people like me try to flee there to escape the vile governments of Red America.

Dealing with Republicans is hard and frustrating, I get that. And our modern Republicans seem to have abandoned even the pretense of going along with consensus reality, which makes dealing with them even harder. Trust me, I know, I live among them. Yes, I live in a fairly safe Blue area of Texas, but I still encounter them daily.

I think the nation needs some restructuring (the Senate is horrible, the House is too small, the EC is evil incarnate), but I don't think we should abandon it just because Trump is a dick and so are his voters.
posted by sotonohito at 7:54 AM on April 7, 2017 [40 favorites]

it is only now beginning to look like america's enormous arsenal combined with its tremendous self-regard was a bad idea, it seemed good when the democrat was in office
posted by beerperson at 7:55 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Scarlett Johansson Called Ivanka Trump a Coward

Speaking with Ariana Huffington today at Tina Brown’s Women in the World Summit, actress-activist Scarlett Johansson reacted to Ivanka Trump’s recent interview with Gayle King, in which the first daughter was asked about whether or not she was complicit in her father’s actions. Johansson said she found the interview “cowardly” and “baffling,” and stood by her SNL perfume thesis. “You can’t have it both ways, right?” she said. “If you take a job as a public advocate then you must advocate publicly, right?”

"[Ivanka] said … she felt that the greatest change, the biggest influence that she would have, the change that she would make, actually would be behind closed doors, and nobody would actually know that she had made this change. And I thought, well that’s empowering! How old-fashioned, you know, this idea that behind a great man is a great woman. What about being in front of that person or next to them? It is such an old-fashioned concept that to be this powerful woman, you know, you can’t appear to be concerned, that someone is going to think that you are bitchy, or a powerful woman, you know, they get concerned with this idea that they are going to be seen in this unforgiving light and, you know, screw that, it is so old fashioned and it is so uninspired and actually really cowardly."

posted by chris24 at 7:56 AM on April 7, 2017 [54 favorites]

SLoG I'm done with NC, and I am actively planning to leave, yes. For a Bluer more forward place. Does everyone have to move? I can't answer that question. Maybe it comes down to what an individual can tolerate, and maybe my tolerance for the GCT is too low in some people's opinions. To me it feels like leaving an abusive relationship. Self preservation.

I guess I don't see it any differently from a bunch of people saying enough, we're leaving to set up elsewhere (UK-->US).

As for the rural/urban divide, those are still clumps, just with different labels.
posted by yoga at 8:00 AM on April 7, 2017

Well, everyone in the U.S. isn't going to relocate, so what's the point of speculating/talking/bragging about doing so?
posted by agregoli at 8:05 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Add: I have other reasons for leaving NC, not just politicalness. My job, a need for environmental change after 54 years in the same place, getting older etc etc etc.

I don't think any place is utopia. I'm looking forward to bitching about a new swath of things. :)
posted by yoga at 8:06 AM on April 7, 2017

Yeah, if you're in a position to up and move out of a red state, that's a pretty privileged position.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:06 AM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

Do what you feel like you need to do, but more people voted for Hillary in North Carolina (2.19M) than in Massachusetts (2.0M) or New Jersey (2.15M).
And the third-highest state for Trump voters was California.

Don't think there's some sort of partition with a frontier that exists.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:07 AM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

I'm not an historian, but this talk of a divorce has me thinking of how India had a divorce in 1947. Worked out well.
posted by michswiss at 8:11 AM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

via twitter of CNN reporter: McConnell asked about Mitt Romney potentially running for Senate in Utah in 2018 -- "I've had some conversations with Mitt Romney."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:12 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Honestly? My ideal would be for the blue states - especially California (my state!), because of its yuuuge population and economy, to set an example rather than secede. I'm for CalExit as a last resort - if it's that or unconditional submission to fascism - but being a guide and shining example is the better, and more courageous, thing for us to do, I think.

And I believe California can do this, because the the rest of the country needs us more than we need them. We have the population, the money, the jobs, the expertise, and the political will. We have Ted Lieu, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Brown, and Gavin Newsom, who wants to give California universal health care.

I hope my native state will be like the cool older sibling who saves their younger brothers and sisters from an abusive home and cruel governmental guardians, rather than the coward who abandons them. )CalExit should be a last resort if, for example, the rest of the country really does become a dictatorship and secession is the only thing that saves us.)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:13 AM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

Population figures make those NC/MA/NJ/CA stats somewhat deceptive. I've lived in Wisconsin and California. If you're even a little bit different, living in LA is heaven compared to living in say Green Bay. Nevertheless, it's too bad that the move that would benefit the country would be the opposite of the move that people who vote the right way tend to want to make. If there were economic paths and a more welcoming populace, the youth/brain drain may have actually been small enough not to avoid current non-coastal non-urban voting patterns.
posted by bootlegpop at 8:13 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just to be clear on the issue of Chief of Staff candidates: the article did not suggest that Arlen Specter is a candidate, but rather Specter's former CoS, David Urban

So just the specter of Specter, then?
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:14 AM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Also, regarding whether we warned the Russians, this Vox summary of what we know so far says the US Gov't has acknowledged using existing "deconfliction" channels to let the Russians know we were doing this. (They presumably warned Assad.)

Though the relationship between the US and Russia is deeply weird at the moment, at least it isn't at Cold War levels of paranoia. Still, it wouldn't do to risk having some Russian air defense officer see 50 inbound cruise missiles and leap to the conclusion that it was a first strike.

(Which, of course, means that since we have to keep the Russians in the loop, we have to presume we give the Syrian military advance warning of everything we do. Sun Tzu would be appalled.)
posted by Gelatin at 8:17 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

A good time to repost these cartoons from the Clinton and GW Bush years…
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:18 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Huffy Puffy: And the third-highest state for Trump voters was California.

"Coloring" of states comes from percentages (in pockets), not the individual numbers for one candidate. In other words, the percentage of the population who voted for someone matters more than the total number of votes for a candidate in a given state. For example, Clinton took California by more than 4 million votes, so the fact that CA had the third-most votes for Trump doesn't really matter.

Similarly, where those votes came in matter, when you're talking about where you live and who are your neighbors. Coastal California is different than inland California, in climate and population (we moved from California to New Mexico because while we could afford a house in inland California, it wasn't appealing to us on a number of fronts).
posted by filthy light thief at 8:19 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

and Gavin Newsom, who wants to give California universal health care.

his twitter account is on fleek too
posted by entropicamericana at 8:23 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

EXCLUSIVE: Trump White House to Host Seder
Sources at the White House tell us that the Trump administration is planning to continue the tradition set by President Obama of hosting a Seder at the White House this coming Monday night.

So he's certainly got the wicked, simple, and and 'doesn't know how to ask a question' children lined up.

The wise one is clearly Tiffany, from staying the hell away from this horror show.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:25 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

his twitter account is on fleek too

Dead children warning on that twitter feed. Don't surprise people with links like that, please.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:27 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

My ideal would be for the blue states - especially California (my state!), because of its yuuuge population and economy, to set an example rather than secede. I'm for CalExit as a last resort - if it's that or unconditional submission to fascism - but being a guide and shining example is the better, and more courageous, thing for us to do, I think.

Absolutely. Republicans have relied on decades of noxious propaganda, going back especially but not exclusively to Ronald Reagan, that government can't work and high taxes and regulations lead to a hellish dystopia. One need only look at most red states, where only Federal transfer of wealth from more prosperous blue states keeps things from being even more dismal, to know the falsity of this claim. But just as Kansas' voters are starting to figure out that Brownback-nomics was a disaster, it'd be kind of cool for someone to keep pointing out "things are just fine here in blue New York / California / whatever."
posted by Gelatin at 8:27 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hope my native state will be like the cool older sibling who saves their younger brothers and sisters from an abusive home and cruel governmental guardians, rather than the coward who abandons them.

California's cost of living is very high compared with nearly every other state. More than 50% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Most Americans would be economically unable to relocate to California, no matter how much better it looks than their current locality.
posted by zarq at 8:28 AM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

I know that percentages are what determine who wins and loses. My point is that Hillary got 32.45 million votes in states that she lost--almost half of her votes, so maybe cut those of us who live in red states some slack. Just because the Democratic candidate got 43% (Texas) instead of 48% (New Mexico) doesn't make millions of people of one state more or less virtuous than the other.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:28 AM on April 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

California's cost of living is very high compared with nearly every other state. More than 50% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Most Americans would be economically unable to relocate to California, no matter how much better it looks than their current locality.

isn't california's average cost of living grossly distorted by housing markets like the bay area? if you don't want to move there or the los angeles metroplex it's more affordable than it looks on paper.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:44 AM on April 7, 2017

Gorsuch just got confirmed. Let the day-drinking commence.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:46 AM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

I hope the White House seder will use the American Jewish World Service haggadah, "Next Year in a Just World."
posted by ChuraChura at 8:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is the line the Russians are taking. If you see this narrative being repeated elsewhere, consider the source!

"Peskov reiterated remarks he made earlier this week that the chemical attacks were the result not of Assad’s actions but rebel bombings of chemical plants––a claim derided as false by eye-witnesses and the international community."

Reminder, after Congress refused to grant Obama an AUMF, Obama put pressure on Russia to do something about Assad. Assad turned over his chemical weapons stockpile to Russia. Now that Russia and Assad are openly allied on Syrian battlefields, Russia may have given them back! Or Assad may not have turned all of them over, or may have gotten new ones...

But regardless, this is very much Assad's MO. He never really stopped using chemical weapons -- just switched to industrial chemicals like chlorine.

This short video is a good reminder of what happened last time around... It's from 2015, and is a good short history of how the Syrian civil war started, and the US involvement under Obama, prior to the refugee crisis.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ok, so you move to CA, but no Bay Area,LA, or San Diego. Where d'ya think you're moving to then? Probably going to be reddish.
posted by LionIndex at 8:48 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Y'all we have been round and round and round on the complexities and contradictions of the moving-or-not-if-you-even-practically-can thing, let's just not get further into it again here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:50 AM on April 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

So, seder's on, with someone somewhere. Got it.

A tradition will continue at Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael, California later this month when the venue hosts a pair of “Terrapin Nation Seders” in observance of the Jewish holiday of Passover. The unique events, which features dinner and dancing, will take place April 26 and 27.

Each Terrapin Nation Seder will begin with a traditional Passover Seder dinner. After the meal, Phil Lesh will team with Grahame Lesh, Ross James, Scott Guberman and Ezra Lipp for an intimate performance each night. Tickets are available via the venue’s online store with a limited number available at Terrapin Crossroads’ box office.
posted by mikelieman at 8:54 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Gorsuch vote 54-45
posted by XMLicious at 8:58 AM on April 7, 2017

Who abstained?
posted by corb at 9:01 AM on April 7, 2017

Gorsuch vote 54-45

Traitors: Donnelly, Heitkamp, Manchin.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

It Is Insane that this is being allowed and seemingly no Republicans are affronted by the idea that DJT is using Mar-A-Lago as both a Presidential Office and his own personal piggy bank.

Frankly, as an American, I'm ashamed that foreign dignitaries are being served Trump Corp. Food and Beverage Service quality food in my name.
posted by mikelieman at 9:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Who abstained?

Issakson. They wheeled him out of a hospital bed for the nuke vote yesterday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Gorsuch vote 54-45

Traitors: Donnelly, Heitkamp, Manchin.

Oh FFS. This is bad enough during normal politics, but this time WE HAVE ACTUAL TRAITORS IN GOVERNMENT.

...and Donnelly's my senator, and I've already called his office to criticize him for this vote (which I don't think helps him at all), but for Christ's sake.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:04 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

@ThePlumLineGS: Confirmation of Gorsuch after refusal to hear Garland *and* nuke option confirms it: Nothing Rs do will ever dislodge both-sides-ism.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:08 AM on April 7, 2017 [43 favorites]

Vox: Trump brought his economics team to his Syria strike watch party for some reason: Some of the people visible in the image seem like naturals for this kind of meeting, including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer who needs to be able to speak authoritatively about the president’s activities. That the Trump administration is structured around an awkward troika — Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner — rather than a traditional chief of staff model is odd, but given the context it’s natural that all three are there.

But the Secretaries of Commerce and Treasury are also on hand, along with National Economic Council director Gary Cohn.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

#calexit is maybe the most naïve idea I've ever heard, and like my social group since forever has been grad students, democratic socialists, and anarchists — so I've heard a lot of naïve ideas.

The current illegitimate government back East is not going to let its west coast ports or its largest economic engine go without a fight. The Republican base doesn't understand how much money we send them, but the leadership sure does.

We can't exit the United States. We have to liberate it instead. Hopefully we can liberate it through politics or through cyberwarfare rather than through a shooting war — cause let me tell you, I'm a terrible shot. and probably shouldn't be trusted with anything bigger than a .22 anyway.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:09 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

MSNBC's Brian Williams quotes Leonard Cohen lyric when describing missile strikes on Syria as beautiful.

Oh, Brian. Never change.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:09 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

I almost can't believe Gorsuch is going to sit on the Court- the only thing that is convincing my poor, tired brain that this is real is the never-ending stream of also-terrible things that are very, very real.
posted by rachaelfaith at 9:10 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

So Bennett voted against confirmation for Gorsuch?
posted by medusa at 9:12 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

People keep posing the Calexit or other secession questions as straw men where one day, the good people of the pacific northwest collectively decide to John Galt their shit.

Here's how it might actually happen: the federal government starts fuck-you-burn-it-to-the-ground ICE raids, DEA raids, specifically to punish legal marijuana and sanctuary cities. California retaliates by expelling federal agents from the state. Both sides mobilize relevant troops, and now we're in a detente that's a precursor to civil war.

That's a really rough outline, but just as a thought experiment: where in this scenario do you suggest that the people of California avoid civil war? Is letting a bunch of undocumented immigrants die in concentration camps a good price for the union? And while this hypothetical is constructed specifically to show why secession might make sense, as a sequence of events it doesn't seem completely unlikely.

Maybe California loses that fight badly and secession doesn't happen. But I want to make that fight.

So why talk about it now? Because the idea has to exist at the time that action is required; we can't come up with this shit on the fly. Politicians have to know that serious resistance to federalism is sanctioned by their electorate--you can't just break out of the union on a whim. Maybe in your fantasy world this can never happen, but I want my governor, I want my neighbors to know that it's a real possibility if conditions are right.
posted by TypographicalError at 9:14 AM on April 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

I'm not going to belabor the point again, but having these unreliable red state Dems in good standing in the party is untenable in a world where any defections from the party line now makes the difference between decades of conservative rule and, not that.

If the 2019 Senate is 51-49, a Donnelly telling the Democrats "I don't work for you" is the difference between the vote to replace RBG. There's no room for freelancing any more.

And someone else said it too, running a Joe Donnelly versus a real liberal choice gives up on the opportunity to advance actual liberal polices and ideas, instead of the Donnelly/Manchin/Lieberman way of self-interested craven political triangulation on every single issue. That's how we keep getting stuck with Evan Bayh and Patrick Murphy. There's going to be an anti-Trump opening. We need real people advancing real solutions to present a real choice. Not hacks clinging to their seats and voting with the Republicans all the time anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

Bennet voted for cloture the first time (60 needed), then against it post-nuclear (50+1 needed).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:17 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Oh, Brian. Never change.

Actually I'd like it if Brian changed by being devoured by bullet ants
posted by beerperson at 9:18 AM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

There's going to be an anti-Trump opening. We need real people advancing real solutions to present a real choice. Not hacks clinging to their seats and voting with the Republicans all the time anyway.

Agree. A(n actual, progressive) Democrat for every office in all 50 states, come now or high-water!
posted by petebest at 9:20 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

But the Secretaries of Commerce and Treasury are also on hand, along with National Economic Council director Gary Cohn.


Going to take their oil.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

As a thought experiment, CalExit is one thing, but as a future reality, it is untenable. First, it would destabilize not only the U.S., but also the states that seceded. As many have noted (based on the fact that the only CalExit offices extant are in Moscow, while it's spokesperson lives in Yekaterinburg) the Russian government is fully supportive of this move to secession as destabilization of western powers is Putin's goal.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:24 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Heitkamp barely won in 2012. Her margin was less than 1%, and could have gone to a recount if her opponent hadn't conceded. Winning re-election will require her to prove to conservative ND voters that she will place their wishes over the good of her party. Most of them aren't Democrats. Over 60% of the state's voters sided with Trump over Clinton. The pipeline is a major issue. So she's now voted to confirm a majority of Trump's nominees, including Gorsuch. Which is entirely predictable. Like Manchin, she was elected by her constituents with the expectation that she would vote a particular way, and has.

Meanwhile, Manchin and Heitkamp have recently been working closely together on energy legislation, including that which affects the coal industry. There have also been reports in conservative media that both were/are being considered for cabinet posts.
posted by zarq at 9:24 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

As a thought experiment, CalExit is one thing, but as a future reality, it is untenable.

As a thought experiment, keeping the Union together is one thing, but as a future reality, it is untenable.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:26 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

"[Ivanka] said … she felt that the greatest change, the biggest influence that she would have, the change that she would make, actually would be behind closed doors, and nobody would actually know that she had made this change."

Yeah you know Ivanka... if your goal is to be a good influence behind closed doors you are doing a pretty shitty job at it. Drop the pretense, please.
posted by orbit-3 at 9:26 AM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Basically if the democratic party fails to hold a unified line for the next three years, and if the democratic party fails to win under that unified line, it really does mean that extra-parliamentary methods would be necessary to dislodge fascism. And given that it's not really plausible that we'd be able to like set up workers' councils and transfer all power to them anytime soon, I think it's time to seriously considering fleeing — not to California, that's ridiculous, but to a country that's part of the free world.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:27 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Someone needs to show Trump some pictures of children without health insurance, stat.

If that had a 1/1,000,000 probability of getting through to Trump, we wouldn't be where we are right now. I seriously doubt he gives much of a shit about his own kids getting sick, except to the extent that it affects him.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:28 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Someone needs to show Trump some pictures of children without health insurance, stat.

So he bars them from entering the country and then bombs their parents?
posted by beerperson at 9:29 AM on April 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

Obama: national security heavyweights & foreign policy experts. Trump: son-in-law, Breitbart, Goldman Sachs. Yikes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 AM on April 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

Yeah, the man gives a shit about at most two of his own five legitimate children, counting Eric and Don Jr as half a shit apiece. The thought that his brain has space for caring about other people's' children is an absurdity.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:35 AM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Re Gorsuch, I am sick at heart. And I've been wandering around wondering "What can I think about this besides sick despair?"

And then I remembered the piece I read on Slacktivist recently about the difference between protest and civil disobedience.

And so now I'm trying to hold in mind that we know unjust laws will be passed, and the proper response to an unjust law is a. to fight its passage, b. to protest it and c. to break it, either openly to protest it or quietly to protect its victims.

All of those require courage, the third most of all. I'm not at all sure how much courage I really have. But that is what we must do. We can't stop unjust laws from happening, but we can refuse to follow them and do everything else possible to resist and overturn them.
posted by emjaybee at 9:36 AM on April 7, 2017 [34 favorites]

Heitkamp barely won in 2012. Her margin was less than 1%, and could have gone to a recount if her opponent hadn't conceded. Winning re-election will require her to prove to conservative ND voters that she will place their wishes over the good of her party. Most of them aren't Democrats.

So why wouldn't they vote for the Republican?
posted by indubitable at 9:37 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

not to California, that's ridiculous, but to a country that's part of the free world.

Or we could realize the republican majority is a paper tiger, most votes are super close and from laughably small voting base and work to reform and replace the political system from the ground up at a time when the country has never been more ready for a bold new direction.

In other words, we could be patriots.

*hums the international while putting away coffee cups*
posted by The Whelk at 9:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [82 favorites]

counting Eric and Don Jr as half a shit apiece.

lol
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:42 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Lawfare on the legitimacy, under international law, of the air strikes in Syria.
posted by suelac at 9:42 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

In other words, we could be patriots.

John when are you running for office John
posted by beerperson at 9:52 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

isn't california's average cost of living grossly distorted by housing markets like the bay area? if you don't want to move there or the los angeles metroplex it's more affordable than it looks on paper.

Absolutely. Susanville and Weaverville and Yreka and Barstow and Crescent City are quite reasonable, and some of them are even lovely. Oddly, outside of the Bay area and the coast between Ventura and San Diego, California is dramatically underpopulated and could use an influx of new people.

The same is true of Oregon and Washington, too (outside of the Portland - Eugene and Olympia -Seattle-Bellinghame corridors).
posted by msalt at 9:54 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Aaaaand I'm already seeing Republicans (both spokesholes and ordinary voters) use Hillary Clinton's words on this to defend 45. Which is exactly what I expected.

Thanks, Hill. Good job on that one.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:01 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Not only are we keeping the Union together, I would really like to see it as a Democratic Party priority to bring in Washington DC, Peurto Rico, the Western Pacific Territories and the Virgin Islands as states, each with Reps and Sens. If Wyoming and Alaska get to be states, these places have the population to pull it off as well.

The Republicans want to play games to keep a permanent stranglehold on Federal power? Let's play some games.

Also on the table - increasing the number of Representatives to reflect on the population growth of the USA. Let's rip some undeserved power from the little red parasite states and give it back to the prosperous urbanized ones.

Destroy gerrymandering, or at the very least, undermine it at every opportunity - this needs to be a priority at the municipal, state and federal level. This means Democrats need to stop gerrymandering for their own benefit as well.

We need to take the fight to these fuckers, and take it to them hard. I want them reeling for a decade or two, or destroyed outright, the next time we even get a whiff of power.

Start right now, call city hall to find out what elections are coming up, I can guarantee you there are a couple just this year - and participate in them.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:04 AM on April 7, 2017 [68 favorites]

If Republicans try to defend Trump by saying Clinton would have done the same thing, they'll alienate a huge part of Trump's base, many of whom right now are attacking Trump by saying Clinton would have done the same thing...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:04 AM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Wait, did Trump have a translator for any of Xi's visit? Or has he just been nodding along all week?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:06 AM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Christ. These clowns even did a photo so they could show Trump cosplaying a president based on that time Obama took out bin Laden.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:08 AM on April 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

I can imagine many times in our country's history when things looked even darker than they do now. The Civil War tops the list. But also...

WWI and WWII, when we were fighting in global wars that were killing millions of people. We were rationing food and materiel. Our citizens were being drafted in the tens of thousands and sent off to die horrifically in a foreign land.

The Great Depression, when it seemed that unregulated capitalism had led the country to the brink of collapse. Food lines. Desperation dialed up to 11.

The 60s, when a President was assassinated, and his brother the Attorney General, and the highest profile civil rights activist. Students were being shot and killed for protesting the draft sending them to die horrifically in a foreign land (and this time, without even the moral argument for the conflict). A President and most of his administration are impeached and/or imprisoned for their crimes.

The 70s, when inflation meant that home-ownership became out of reach for many and gas shortages and rationing were rampant.

The 2000s, when the 9/11 attacks turned our country into a mess of paranoia and the housing collapse and the Great Recession wiped out trillions in personal wealth, left millions unemployed or homeless, and forced the elderly to go back to work in menial jobs because they had lost their retirement investments.

I look back at those times and it helps give me some perspective. There were people who fled the country in each of those times. There were people whose lives were ruined or who died outright. In each of those times, there were millions of people who probably thought that it was the end of the "USA", but the country seemed to stagger on to eventually walk semi-upright again after each of them.

I'm not sure how much hope it gives to consider what this country has been through and survived, especially when so many people suffered then and are suffering now. But amid the wailing and gnashing of teeth, it offers some small anodyne to think that history has shown us that as a nation we can weather terrible times.

If this thought helps ignite the spark of hope we need to be able to keep fighting the good fight, then maybe it's useful encouragement.
posted by darkstar at 10:10 AM on April 7, 2017 [53 favorites]

McConnell asked about Mitt Romney potentially running for Senate in Utah in 2018 -- "I've had some conversations with Mitt Romney."

My god, these people just never go away. If life has become TV, this is like season after season with the same villains who are always defeated yet keep coming back. It's like finding out that Eobard Thawne is a senator now. No matter how many times he's erased from existence, he just shows up again like nothing ever happened. The same goes for Romney and company.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:11 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

CNN: World reaction: Who's with US and who isn't
MSNBC: McCain: Trump has chance to reboot with Americans
CBS: How accurate was U.S. strike on Syrian airbase?, Marco Rubio on possibility of Syrian chemical attack against U.S. troops
ABC: US launches first strike against Assad; Syria decries 'dirty war'
NYT: Syria Strike Puts U.S. and Russia at Odds, Putin Calls Attack ‘Significant Blow’ to Treasongate*

*sorry, that should read, "Relationship". We regret the terror.
posted by petebest at 10:11 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Wait, did Trump have a translator for any of Xi's visit? Or has he just been nodding along all week?

Well, it's back to rum poured over Girl Scout cookies for breakfast again I guess.
posted by corb at 10:14 AM on April 7, 2017 [45 favorites]

I'll take my tiny victories when I can:

BREAKING: Twitter withdraws lawsuit filed on Thursday over anti-Trump account, says U.S. has withdrawn summons
posted by H. Roark at 10:15 AM on April 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

Wait, did Trump have a translator for any of Xi's visit? Or has he just been nodding along all week?

Katie Walsh was "not fired" last week for "not being ogleable" as reported.
posted by petebest at 10:15 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Someone needs to show Trump some pictures of children without health insurance, stat.

If that had a 1/1,000,000 probability of getting through to Trump, we wouldn't be where we are right now. I seriously doubt he gives much of a shit about his own kids getting sick, except to the extent that it affects him.

In support of this perspective - Trump once cut off health insurance for his own chronically-ill grandnephew simply to spite his (DJT's) older brother.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:16 AM on April 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

MSNBC: McCain: Trump has chance to reboot with Americans

They said the same thing about his big speech to Congress, to the point that the press actually believed it for a day or two, until Trump's basic incompetence caught up with him.

The problem with Syria / Assad is that Trump's ability to project power is limited, particularly compared to the Russians, and Assad clearly believes that it's in his interest to use everything he can, including chemical weapons, against the rebels.

So it's likely that Assad will do so again, and then Trump's Big Brave Manly Act Of Broad-Shouldered Leadership will be shown to be, per usual with Republican bravado, a lot of hot air. But Trump is constrained by having to ask permission of his handlers notify the Russians in advance, which of course tips off Syria as well. So I don't see Assad as regarding US missile strokes as impressive as many in the press seem to. Which will mean that Trump will look weak, and, well, he hates that.
posted by Gelatin at 10:17 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

To be fair, the baby wasn't him. So, yknow. Fat chance he's spending time thinking that one over.
posted by petebest at 10:17 AM on April 7, 2017

Putin Calls Attack ‘Significant Blow’ to Treasongate*

Trump Confident U.S. Military Strike On Syria Wiped Out Russian Scandal (onion).
posted by dis_integration at 10:18 AM on April 7, 2017 [38 favorites]

The follow up here will be cruicial. If there isn't any, because there is no plan, then nothing has really changed.
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

US missile strokes

Indeed.
posted by petebest at 10:19 AM on April 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

McCain: Trump has chance to reboot with Americans

McCain and Trump are both about as useful as a melanoma.
posted by darkstar at 10:20 AM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

"McCain: Trump has chance to reboot with Americans"
You know what? FUCK that guy. I've had it with him. I don't give a fuck anymore that he was a hero once. Fuck him for being an apologist for this damned administration and the whole GOP leadership in Congress.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:21 AM on April 7, 2017 [42 favorites]

The follow up here will be cruicial. If there isn't any, because there is no plan, then nothing has really changed.

There's not going to be a follow up.

"The implication here is that Trump has no desire to launch any more strikes unless Assad uses more chemical weapons. If Assad sticks to his normal tactics, and kills children with explosives rather than banned chemicals, then the United States will leave him alone. This attack will, it seems, be a one-off — or at least part of a relatively small battery of punitive strikes."
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:25 AM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

McCain and Trump are both about as useful as a melanoma.

I suppose that explains the persistent urge to tear off my skin over the past few months.
posted by Behemoth at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Everyone is so happy that Trump is "acting Presidential." It's just like after the State of the Union. Everyone wishes everything would just go back to normal.

But, like after the State of the Union, the feeling of normalcy will evaporate rather quickly with Trump. While a military strike may boost polls for previous embattled presidents, other presidents did not have the tendency to engage in rapid-fire idiocy like Trump does.

Things will be back to normal (i.e., Trump will be regarded as an incompetent maniac) by the beginning of next week. Unless, of course, the USA and Russia start a shooting war with each other.
posted by My Dad at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Things will be back to normal (i.e., Trump will be regarded as an incompetent maniac) by the beginning of next week.

That's a mighty long timeline for Trump. He blew the "pivot" of his Congressional speech the very next day.
posted by Gelatin at 10:29 AM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Things will be back to normal (i.e., Trump will be regarded as an incompetent maniac) by the beginning of next week.

By Saturday morning is my bet. He has quite the Saturday tweeting track record.
posted by chris24 at 10:31 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

John when are you running for office John

When I can introduce my running mate, Captain Steve Rogers

(Also city council seats are two years and I've thrown my support behind a popular progressive and I am absolutely not on any kind of long term planning working group that does not exist don't be absurd)
posted by The Whelk at 10:34 AM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

Wait is SNL back this week? Hoo boy.
posted by emjaybee at 10:34 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ivanka: "That means that I’ll take hits from some critics who say that I should take to the street."

Nobody is asking Ivanka to "take to the street". That is a condescending view of citizens who have no better way of expressing their disapproval in a civilized society. Ivanka, on the other hand, has the privileged ability to simply walk across the hall and apply a dope slap to the back of Trump's melon head, yet declines to do so. Please spare us the comparison to the brave people who "take to the street."

What a disgusting family.
posted by JackFlash at 10:47 AM on April 7, 2017 [78 favorites]

Ivanka: "That means that I’ll take hits from some critics who say that I should take to the street."

Nobody would protest in the streets if they had an office down the hall from the guy whose attention they're trying to get.
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

From the Intercept of all places:

Top Democrats Are Wrong, Trump Supporters Were More Motivated By Racism Than Economic Issues

It isn't only Republicans, it seems, who traffic in alternative facts. Since Donald Trump’s shock election victory, leading Democrats have worked hard to convince themselves, and the rest of us, that his triumph had less to do with racism and much more to do with economic anxiety — despite almost all of the available evidence suggesting otherwise.

Consider Bernie Sanders, de facto leader of the #Resistance. “Some people think that the people who voted for Trump are racists and sexists and homophobes and deplorable folks,” he said at a rally in Boston on Friday, alongside fellow progressive senator Elizabeth Warren. “I don’t agree.” Writing in the New York Times three days after the election last November, the senator from Vermont claimed Trump voters were “expressing their fierce opposition to an economic and political system that puts wealthy and corporate interests over their own”.

Warren agrees with him. “There were millions of people across this country who voted for [Trump] not because of his bigotry, but in spite of that bigotry” because the system is “not working for them economically,” the Massachusetts senator told MSNBC last year.

Both Sanders and Warren seem much keener to lay the blame at the door of the dysfunctional Democratic Party and an ailing economy than at the feet of racist Republican voters. Their deflection isn’t surprising. Nor is their coddling of those who happily embraced an openly xenophobic candidate. Look, I get it. It’s difficult to accept that millions of your fellow citizens harbor what political scientists have identified as “racial resentment.” The reluctance to acknowledge that bigotry, and tolerance of bigotry, is still so widespread in society is understandable. From an electoral perspective too, why would senior members of the Democratic leadership want to alienate millions of voters by dismissing them as racist bigots?

Facts, however, as a rather more illustrious predecessor of President Trump once remarked, “are stubborn things.” Interestingly, on the very same day that Sanders offered his evidence-free defense of Trump voters in Boston, the latest data from the American National Election Studies (ANES) was released.

Philip Klinkner, a political scientist at Hamilton College and an expert on race relations, has pored over this ANES data and tells me that “whether it’s good politics to say so or not, the evidence from the 2016 election is very clear that attitudes about blacks, immigrants, and Muslims were a key component of Trump’s appeal.” For example, he says, “in 2016 Trump did worse than Mitt Romney among voters with low and moderate levels of racial resentment, but much better among those with high levels of resentment.”

posted by chris24 at 10:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [55 favorites]

TRUMP NEVER PIVOTS.
posted by notyou at 10:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

there is a part of me that really, really hopes that someone is at this minute trying to track down a human interest story on the children who died in the chemical weapons attack - and they discover that one child was part of a refugee family that had been scheduled to fly to the US the day after the latest ban, and they had just been waiting for their new flight to be rescheduled.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:55 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

From a FB friend: Maybe this is the only room where they know how to use the lights and they were having an economics team meeting...
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:55 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

(But he does flail about, which to the untrained eye can look like a pivot.)
posted by notyou at 10:55 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

While I called Trump incompetent upthread, I'd just like to say that he's a master of controlling or diverting the media narrative. Which is what those 59 cruise missiles (a $93M PR campaign) did yesterday. Bravo.
posted by My Dad at 11:02 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'd just like to say that he's a master of controlling or diverting the media narrative.

It would certainly help if the media weren't so gullible/overreacting/lazy/stupid/etc. a lot of the time.
posted by Melismata at 11:04 AM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

So...Gorsuch is now a Supreme Court justice.

I'm not saying the it would be good for our democracy for a future Democratic majority to expand the Supreme Court to 15 justices and immediately confirm the six most liberal 30-somethings in America, but it would be more legitimate than McConnell holding that seat open for a year, or Cruz saying he'd let the Supreme Court shuffle along with eight or fewer justices indefinitely if Clinton became president.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:05 AM on April 7, 2017 [55 favorites]

They could also impeach Gorsuch if the tide really turns -- it would open the floodgates to nakedly remaking the court each time the legislature changes hands, but so would court packing.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:09 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

It would certainly help if the media weren't so gullible/overreacting/lazy/stupid/etc. a lot of the time.

It depends on who you follow and who you read (it's your responsibility to find media that "tells the truth"). While I am very much not left-wing, most of the journalists I follow (for US politics) on Twitter are very much sceptical of Trump and the "centrists" trying to "normalize" him.
posted by My Dad at 11:10 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

It would certainly help if the media weren't so gullible/overreacting/lazy/stupid/etc. a lot of the time.

Indeed. But again, the so-called "master" made a big speech to Congress, and yet the very next day his "presidential pivot" was ruined by a combination of his own incompetence, his own inability to control his tweet-temper, and the fact that he's up to his eyebrows in a conspiracy to cover up his campaign's colluding with the Russians to fix the election.
posted by Gelatin at 11:11 AM on April 7, 2017

I have drawn a lot of Trumps, and here they are, including ones I haven't posted here before. I am putting my pen down, because 24 Trumps are enough for this particular renderer.

Thank you to all you fine folk who do such a great job contributing with these threads.

Warning, it's a Facebook page.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:12 AM on April 7, 2017 [39 favorites]

Did the President Incite a Riot? A new case filed by anti-Trump protesters will test the limits of free speech—and the responsibility Trump bears for his own statements.
posted by homunculus at 11:15 AM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

This. This is what I was worried about. If Dems don't take back the congress in 2018, we can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye, as well as any legislation that supports and protects LGBTQ folks. Once again, my rage for people who voted third party or didn't vote at all (don't even get me started on those who voted Trump) leaves me silently screaming and weeping for the generations of women who will undergo illegal and life-threatening abortions once Roe v. Wade is gone. And don't kid yourselves, people: outlawing abortion doesn't stop abortions, it just makes them dangerous.
posted by cooker girl at 11:15 AM on April 7, 2017 [68 favorites]

It would certainly help if the media weren't so gullible/overreacting/lazy/stupid/etc. a lot of the time.

For example (to continue with my earlier comment), everyone on both sides of the aisle (as well as the little green frogs quipping from the sewer pipes below the aisle itself) complains about the New York Times, but Maggie Haberman is doing some great, insightful reporting on the White House from there. As does Abby Phillip at the Washington Post. And there are many others.

I personally am quite sick of pundits and columnists like Krugman or Brooks setting the agenda.
posted by My Dad at 11:17 AM on April 7, 2017

I personally am quite sick of pundits and columnists like Krugman or Brooks setting the agenda.

Brooks is as dishonest as the day is long, but Krugman has been uttering the Cassandra truth of Republican dishonesty since the George W. Bush administration, and while few journalists or pundits would be willing to admit it, I am pretty sure the bloom wouldn't be coming off Paul Ryan's rose without Krugman's work preceding it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:22 AM on April 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

Like, seriously, I was doing relatively okay there for a while. But the Syria situation and now Gorsuch. I'm just gutted. Trying to hold it together at work is a monumental feat.

I'm not giving up, underneath it all I'm still optimistic, but the Supreme Court. I just can't even right now.
posted by cooker girl at 11:24 AM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

WP: Bernie Sanders and DNC chair Tom Perez to unite for cross-country tour
posted by Chrysostom at 11:25 AM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

what is driving me nuts at the moment is the stampede of lawmakers rushing to support trump on syria, because obviously bombing that airfield was a serious decision and indicates that the administration has formulated a coherent plan for syria.

i'm like, no, for you it would be a serious decision backed up by a set of contingency plans, for trump it was a momentary twitch in his basal ganglia before sitting down to dinner.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:37 AM on April 7, 2017 [51 favorites]

homunculus: Did the President Incite a Riot? A new case filed by anti-Trump protesters will test the limits of free speech—and the responsibility Trump bears for his own statements.

I’ve had to look long and hard to find examples of presidential candidates who feared legal trouble because of speeches they made.

So far the list is Thomas Jefferson, Eugene V. Debs, and Donald J. Trump. Of these three, only one—the current president—might actually be held legally responsible for incitement to violence.

Trump may in fact have violated the law even after a century of First Amendment evolution designed to protect political speakers and their speech.
...
Now to the present: here are the words that have gotten our current leader in trouble: “Get ‘em out of here!”

Trump uttered this deathless phrase from a speaker’s platform in Louisville, Kentucky, on March 1, 2016, during one of his mass rallies. Members of the crowd began shoving and hitting a group of protesters. He also said, “Don’t hurt ‘em. If I say ‘go get ‘em,’ I get in trouble with the press.”

The protesters filed suit against Trump, the Trump campaign, and the alleged assailants in federal district court in Kentucky. The lawsuit seeks money damages; among other things, they claim Trump’s speech was “incitement to riot.”

On Friday, Judge David J. Hale ruled that they had made out a genuine claim against the President.

To be clear: Judge Hale did not decide that Trump actually “incited” a riot. But he did rule that, if the protesters’ version of the facts is proved at trial, candidate Trump did just that.

posted by filthy light thief at 11:39 AM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump has begun his notch count in earnest. He ranks world leaders and historical characters by the number of deaths they have caused. The lure of nuclear weapons is inescapable if you are serious about making your place in history. I give him a year before he orders a few up.
posted by bigbigdog at 11:41 AM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Of Course there’s Evidence Trump Colluded with Russian Intelligence
Collusion here is not a legal term. For legal purposes, it matters if Trump or his people conspired with Russian agents to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act or some other criminal law; it matters if they acted as agents of a foreign power within the meaning of FISA or as agents of a foreign principal within the meaning of FARA.

When people say there is no evidence of collusion, they mean, we suppose, that there is no evidence of covert or illegal collaboration with the criminal activity undertaken in the course of this foreign intelligence operation against the United States.

But that is rather a different matter than acquitting Trump and his campaign of collusion. It ignores, after all, the overt and perfectly legal collaboration they plainly engaged in with what they knew to be an ongoing foreign intelligence operation against their country. We don’t need an investigation to show that this overt collusion took place, for the Trumpists were caught in flagrante delicto throughout the entire campaign; indeed, caught is even the wrong word here. The collusion was an open and public feature of the campaign.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:43 AM on April 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

Not only are we keeping the Union together, I would really like to see it as a Democratic Party priority to bring in Washington DC, Peurto Rico, the Western Pacific Territories and the Virgin Islands as states, each with Reps and Sens. If Wyoming and Alaska get to be states, these places have the population to pull it off as well.

The Republicans want to play games to keep a permanent stranglehold on Federal power? Let's play some games.

Also on the table - increasing the number of Representatives to reflect on the population growth of the USA. Let's rip some undeserved power from the little red parasite states and give it back to the prosperous urbanized ones.

Destroy gerrymandering, or at the very least, undermine it at every opportunity - this needs to be a priority at the municipal, state and federal level. This means Democrats need to stop gerrymandering for their own benefit as well.

We need to take the fight to these fuckers, and take it to them hard. I want them reeling for a decade or two, or destroyed outright, the next time we even get a whiff of power.

Yep. All this shit goes on the table once you steal a Supreme Court seat. If you can unfuck gerrymandering, all sorts of stuff starts sorting itself out. Then you put in an independent federal redistricting commission that can't be easily removed, and tie federal dollars to adherence with the lines that it draws. There's probably some significant Federalism issues with that proposal, but fuck it.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:46 AM on April 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

Well, it's back to rum poured over Girl Scout cookies for breakfast again I guess.

corb, I know you run against the political grain here, and I know you and I specifically have been at loggerheads a few times. But while we disagree, I know that you are an honorable and decent opponent to have. And it's in that light that really, sincerely, implore you not to do this thing.

Please do not insult Girl Scout cookies like this.

If you must have a rum-soaked breakfast, and while that's not my thing I'll not judge, I beg you to limit your cereal-oid selection to products that deserve to be soaked in rum, such as store-brand Fake Lucky Charms.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:46 AM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

it would open the floodgates to nakedly remaking the court each time the legislature changes hands, but so would court packing.

At least the fact of the court as a political institution would be clear, instead of the current false idea of the Court as somehow objective and non-partisan.

At this point I'd much rather elect SCOTUS judges to 10 year terms. There's no longer any defense of lifetime appointments.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:48 AM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Or just go purist and have rum-covered rum.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:48 AM on April 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

Seems like the EPA is pretending that Energy Star is still a thing, which is either refreshing, or sad for everyone. EPA Honors 18 Organizations from 2017 ENERGY STAR® Partners of the Year for Achievements in Energy Efficiency (April 6, 2017 press release)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Dems don't take back the congress in 2018, we can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye, as well as any legislation that supports and protects LGBTQ folks.

They would serious fuck themselves if they overturned Roe. Not only would they lose a great fundraising source, they'd piss off 7/10ths of voters.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:49 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

US job creation tumbles in March despite Donald Trump's promises to boost employment
posted by futz at 11:50 AM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Morning After President* Trump's First Attempt at War: Dispatches from D.C., where the war is made but rarely has any impact at all.

And, in the aftermath, we have begun to hear again that the president* was moved to being presidential again, the way he was when he read a speech to Congress without spraining his tongue. He was "decisive." His tone had "changed." There is such a great desire to validate this guy in the office that is supposed to validate him simply by the fact that he holds it that a lot of the people commenting on the actions taken Thursday night simply forgot that it probably was nakedly illegal. However, Senator Tim Kaine, who's been trying to beat a new Authorization for the Use of Military Force out of Congress for four years, remained on the case.

This, of course, will mean nothing to anybody. The drums are already beating. John McCain was on the electric teevee machine on Thursday proposing that we not only overthrow Bashar al Assad and his regime, but rebuild Syria. He used as his example how we rebuilt Europe after World War II. This is, of course, crazy. Nobody in the region would stand for that, not after our bungled monstrosity in Iraq. Constitutional niceties in this regard went out the window decades ago.

posted by homunculus at 11:51 AM on April 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

US job creation tumbles in March despite Donald Trump's promises to boost employment

Think of all the tourism dollars he's already destroyed; incompetent fuckstick is incompetent.

In other news, water wet.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:51 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

> Yep. All this shit goes on the table once you steal a Supreme Court seat. If you can unfuck gerrymandering, all sorts of stuff starts sorting itself out. Then you put in an independent federal redistricting commission that can't be easily removed, and tie federal dollars to adherence with the lines that it draws. There's probably some significant Federalism issues with that proposal, but fuck it.

sounds good. btw what group has final say on the constitutionality of these measures?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

US air strikes in Syria: Russia suspends agreement preventing direct conflict with American forces

Russian Foreign Ministry says Moscow is suspending memorandum with US that prevented incidents and ensured flight safety in Syria in response to Trump-ordered air strikes

Just peachy! Winning!
posted by futz at 11:53 AM on April 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

I mean it really depends on what kind of rum we are talking about, doesn't it.

Also you can get Girl Scout cookie flavored cereal, so that might make it easier.

Anyhoo, we have already talked about the unlikelihood of froth-mouthed crazies who dream of restricting birth control being logical about Roe. They're gonna try to get rid of it. The measured thinkers are not in charge, and when they try to be, get primaried. Republicans have committed to the crazy.

When it comes to abortion and other reproductive rights, our only option remains to resist and to never stop fighting. We may be able to preserve Roe and we might not.

If we lose, I think this time, honestly, we shouldn't just fight to get Roe back. I think we shouldn't stop until we get the ERA passed. I think our mistake last time was in stopping short of that. We need rights that can't be so easily nit-picked away by state governments, based not just on "privacy" but on something stronger.
posted by emjaybee at 11:55 AM on April 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

sounds good. btw what group has final say on the constitutionality of these measures?

1. Retake Congress
2. Impeach Treasonous fuckstick and vice-fuckstick
3. Swear in President Pelosi
4. Add 4 democratic states to the union
5. Impeach Gorsuch
posted by leotrotsky at 11:57 AM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

futz: US job creation tumbles in March despite Donald Trump's promises to boost employment

He can't claim January and February gains, just as he'd be hard-pressed to get credited for the March numbers:

Economists had reportedly expected a fall in hiring in March after job gains in January and February had averaged a robust 237,000. Those increases had been fuelled partly by strong hiring in construction, which occurred because of unseasonably warm winter weather.

The Associated Press said construction firms added 6,000 jobs in March, the fewest in seven months. Retailers, fighting off the challenge of online shopping, cut 30,000 jobs. Education and health care services added the fewest jobs in 15 months.

And March's low numbers were due in part to worse than normal weather. But there's more

“The March non-farm payrolls number was a phenomenal miss and will add to market uncertainty following the Syria missile strikes,” says Marcus Bullus, trading director at MB Capital. “Very few traders saw this one coming”.

Consumer and business sentiment has soared since the November presidential election, but the increased optimism has not yet accelerated growth, said the AP.

I'm confused on the Syrian comment, to be honest, but I'm happy they stated that strong stocks don't mean more jobs or even increased investments by companies.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:58 AM on April 7, 2017

Impeach Gorsuch

For what? Plaigirism?
posted by thelonius at 11:58 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

1. Retake Congress
2. Impeach Treasonous fuckstick and vice-fuckstick
3. Swear in President Pelosi
4. Add 4 democratic states to the union
5. Impeach Gorsuch

easy peasy
posted by Existential Dread at 11:59 AM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Impeach Gorsuch

For what? Plagirism?

I mean, being nominated by a President who stole the election via treason would seem to be sufficient.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

Peach season is in August.
posted by Namlit at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

They would serious fuck themselves if they overturned Roe. Not only would they lose a great fundraising source, they'd piss off 7/10ths of voters.

Luckily the voters have no recourse against the Supreme Court.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is real, apparently
posted by My Dad at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

easy peasy

How do you eat an Elephant? One bite at a time.

Though, honestly the real issue would be the 2/3rds requirement in the Senate. That ain't ever gonna happen for Gorsuch.

Enlarging the court by two seats would be much easier (assuming you control both houses of Congress, blow up the legislative filibuster, and have executive branch). The Republicans will wail and moan. Ignore them completely. It's worked for them so far.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

For what? Plaigirism?

For being appointed in an illegitimate manner (with McConnell having stolen Obama's pick) by an illegitimate president (whose campaign colluded with the Russians to steal the election) using an illegitimate process (nuking the filibuster).

And if Democrats get the votes to do it, they should. McConnell's stealing the pick must be punished.

That said, consider that all the things the Republicans are doing -- and the extent that it seems they're pissing even normally feckless Democratic politicians off -- are going to make it a lot easier to pass the Democratic agenda in 2020, and better yet, it is actually popular.
posted by Gelatin at 12:02 PM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Wait is SNL back this week? Hoo boy.

Louis C.K. is hosting. Couple of days ago he was on Colbert and talked about Trump:

“Like, there’s liars. Then, there’s somebody who lies once in a while. They can’t quite stay inside the boundaries of truth, right? Somebody who lies sometimes. Then, you have a liar. It’s almost like a problem. They can’t help it. They lie a lot. Then, you have just lying sacks of shit. They just lie. They like it. He likes it. He goes, ‘Heh-heh, it wasn’t even true! And then, I said they were liars.’ It’s just gross. He’s just a gross crook, dirty, rotten, lying sack of shit.”

Trump may order a Tomahawk strike against midtown Manhattan after the show airs.
posted by zarq at 12:02 PM on April 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

In fucking credible:

@AFP: #BREAKING Jets carry out strikes from Syria base hit by US: monitor

Great job, everyone.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:02 PM on April 7, 2017 [52 favorites]

UNBELIEVABLE

Fox Uses Trump Access Hollywood Tape In Workplace Harassment Seminars

An anonymous employee who attended one of the workshops Tuesday on Fox’s studio lot in Los Angeles told The Hollywood Reporter, which broke this story, that gasps were heard around the room when the clip was aired.

"They went through the scenario of the tape, why it was harassment and why it's something you should report," the employee said, according to the report. "There was an audible gasp in the room, like, 'Can you believe this is happening?'"
posted by futz at 12:03 PM on April 7, 2017 [49 favorites]

This is real, apparently

Too small to read. What does it say?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:03 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Nevermind, @SovietSergey isn't a real account of anyone.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:04 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anyhoo, we have already talked about the unlikelihood of froth-mouthed crazies who dream of restricting birth control being logical about Roe. They're gonna try to get rid of it. The measured thinkers are not in charge, and when they try to be, get primaried. Republicans have committed to the crazy.

Yeah, the problem with the strategy of using Roe to gin up the base forever, while never actually getting rid of it, is that a lot of people who weren't in on the grift got so worked up that they ran for office and won, because they were (naturally) more committed to the culture war than career politicians who only cared about abortion, etc, as a wedge issue. It's as if a team of conmen set up a pyramid scheme, and it worked out really well for them, but after they took their money out and retired the pyramid kept running, given over to the top layer of marks who still don't realize that pyramid schemes are a grift. So they're not going to do anything to contain the fallout from the con falling apart, because as far as they're concerned they really did find a foolproof way for anybody to get rich quick, and anyone who says otherwise is an anti-American traitor.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:05 PM on April 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

This is real, apparently

The mods have commented on "mystery meat" links. Could you add some more context?
posted by futz at 12:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

> In fucking credible:
@AFP: #BREAKING Jets carry out strikes from Syria base hit by US: monitor
Great job, everyone.

Isn't that rubbing our nose in it a bit too hard? Come on, 2017 scriptwriters. At least make an effort!
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

@AFP: #BREAKING Jets carry out strikes from Syria base hit by US: monitor

I cannot fucking wait to see that asshole blame the generals again. I'm not being sarcastic, either. The last few Trumpists who are still talking to me are Army buddies, and the only thing they've grumbled about was when he passed the buck down to the Pentagon the last time.
posted by Etrigan at 12:07 PM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

fuckstick

Since this is about the worst insult for a person in the English language, it should be interesting to watch people here and elsewhere come up with nastier ones. Get ready for more dictionary entries!
posted by Melismata at 12:08 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Could you add some more context?

It's Sean Hannity being a credulous boob. So, situation normal.
posted by rewil at 12:09 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

The mods have commented on "mystery meat" links. Could you add some more context?

Sean Hannity is screaming about being in the dark about whether or not he was under surveillance. Can't someone tell him, please?

A Twitter account posing as the Russian foreign minister says, "I can tell you, DM me"

Hannity DM's the Twitter account, gets owned.

Twitter account posts a screenshot of the message.

THE END.

Clearly I spend too much time following US politics on Twitter
posted by My Dad at 12:12 PM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

thelonius For what? Plaigirism?

When then Rep. Gerald Ford was attempting, repeatedly, to impeach Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas, basically on the grounds that he didn't like the guy, he said this: "An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history"

They set the standard, I'm just following it.

But, less nastily, I think being appointed to a stolen seat by a traitor probably counts as a good reason for impeaching someone.
posted by sotonohito at 12:15 PM on April 7, 2017 [27 favorites]

So wait; if you impeach a SC judge after they've made rulings, on the basis that they were appointed illegitimately, then shouldn't all those rulings be scrapped?

Yeah ok I'm on board.
posted by emjaybee at 12:17 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

So, in KS-04, not only has the NRCC bought a bunch of ad time, they're doing robocalls with Pence, and Cruz is flying in Monday. Dem share of the early vote is double normal at this point.

This district went for Trump by something like 25 points.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:25 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

> 1. Retake Congress
2. Impeach Treasonous fuckstick and vice-fuckstick
3. Swear in President Pelosi
4. Add 4 democratic states to the union
5. Impeach Gorsuch

6. establish democratically elected workers' councils
7. seize all workplaces in the name of those councils
8. establish military revolutionary committees to train a new red army
9. smash the bourgeois state and transfer all power to the councils
10. arise ye workers from your slumber

(at some point this became fantasy. I say it's at item 4 at the latest. I hope item 1 at least is possible.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:25 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

US probing: Did Russia take part in chem weapons attack?

On Friday, senior U.S. military officials said a drone belonging to either Russia or Syria was seen hovering over the site of the chemical weapons attack after the assault earlier this week. Russia is one of Syria's most important patrons and has long resisted U.S. efforts to push President Bashar Assad from power.
posted by futz at 12:27 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maybe California loses that fight badly and secession doesn't happen. But I want to make that fight.

So why talk about it now? Because the idea has to exist at the time that action is required; we can't come up with this shit on the fly.

kinda wishing we hadnt banned assault rifles and large mags atm tbqh
posted by entropicamericana at 12:27 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump’s Policy May Send Reporter Back to Mexico, Where He Risks Being Killed
Pineda underwent a “credible fear” interview with Citizenship and Immigration Services who deemed his life would be in danger if he returned to Mexico, according to Pineda’s attorney, Carlos Spector.
Yet ICE denied Pineda parole, and instead of asylum he now waits for a court hearing where deportation proceedings will begin, Spector said.
An ICE official said the decision to deny Pineda parole was made “upstairs,” according to Spector, who took it as a code for officials in Washington.

Is Sessions intervening personally to deport journalists?
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:27 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

> kinda wishing we hadnt banned assault rifles and large mags atm tbqh

aren't assault rifle bans mostly about cosmetic features anyway?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:30 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Justice Samuel Chase was impeached (but not removed) in 1805 for "tending to prostitute the high judicial character with which he was invested, to the low purpose of an electioneering partizan [sic]."

The most recent impeachment of a federal judge was in 2010 - Thomas Porteous, a district court judge, for corruption and bribery.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:31 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Real Time line up for tonight includes Ted Lieu, Evan McMullin, and Ana Navarro. Might be worth watching for a change.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is anybody making edits of Real Time to surgically remove Maher, like Jar-Jar from the fan cuts of Phantom Menace?
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:34 PM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

Calexit doesn't make sense because California is not self-reliant, particularly as relates to water supply. You're gonna need friends that can ensure that Arizona/Nevada etc don't just take California's share of Colorado River water, or build up a bunch of desal plants super quick. And you're going to have to be ready to deal with an unstable nuclear power next door.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:34 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

When then Rep. Gerald Ford was attempting, repeatedly, to impeach Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas, basically on the grounds that he didn't like the guy, he said this: "An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history"

holy crap, I never heard about that
posted by thelonius at 12:36 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

do not, my friends, become addicted to water
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:39 PM on April 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

What famous celebrity woman will be playing Justice Gorsuch on SNL tomorrow night?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:42 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Reuters, other new agencies have picked up the story: JUST IN: Syrian warplanes take off from air base hit by U.S., carry out strikes in Homs countryside - Syrian observatory for human rights.
posted by scalefree at 12:42 PM on April 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

fuckstick

Since this is about the worst insult for a person in the English language,

It is? Are you guys even trying?
posted by Dr Dracator at 12:44 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

What famous celebrity woman will be playing Justice Gorsuch on SNL tomorrow night?

i vote jane lynch
posted by murphy slaw at 12:44 PM on April 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

All the stories so far are relying on the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Have not seen independent corroboration yet, though a number of agencies are running with it.
posted by scalefree at 12:45 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

aren't assault rifle bans mostly about cosmetic features anyway?

Yes. Mostly.
posted by valkane at 12:48 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Melismata: Since this is about the worst insult for a person in the English language, it should be interesting to watch people here and elsewhere come up with nastier ones.

Scotland! The worlds calls upon your for aid again!
posted by wenestvedt at 12:49 PM on April 7, 2017 [40 favorites]

look, there's way worse things you could call someone than "fuckstick.". Like, you could call them a total gorsuch. or a complete ivanka. or just a piece of donald.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:50 PM on April 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

Are we talking about "fuckstick," or "Fuckface von Clownstick"?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:52 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

New York State Becomes First in the Nation to Provide Lawyers for All Immigrants Detained and Facing Deportation : New York, NY – The Vera Institute of Justice and partner organizations today announced that detained New Yorkers in all upstate immigration courts will now be eligible to receive legal counsel during deportation proceedings. The 2018 New York State budget included a grant of $4 million to significantly expand the New York Immigrant Family Unity Project (NYIFUP), a groundbreaking public defense program for immigrants facing deportation that was launched in New York City in 2013.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:00 PM on April 7, 2017 [52 favorites]

I don't know, a fuckstick sounds like it might be fun. I'm going with a pustulent boil or fecal-smeared hemorrhoid.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:04 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Various mass shooters being interrupted whilst reloading speaks to magazine sizes very much not being cosmetic.
posted by Artw at 1:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

What famous celebrity woman will be playing Justice Gorsuch on SNL tomorrow night?

i vote jane lynch

I was going to say whoever the gender-swapped version of Tom Bergeron is, but now I see that we arrived at the same answer.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:07 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'd be OK with the press referring to him from now on as Justice Neil Asterisk.
posted by Killick at 1:09 PM on April 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

aren't assault rifle bans mostly about cosmetic features anyway?

Mostly, and virtually everything banned can be trivially added aftermarket. AR-15s are the gaming PCs of guns. Plus, Polish resistance fighters knocked these up in their basements - very few parts, not that hard to make with a shop lathe and a few basic metalworking tools.

Realistically, though, there's no difference between an armed American uprising and the post-invasion Iraqi resistance. The anguish and death would fall equally heavily on the civilian populace, and the end result would be equally ineffective. Bigger country, more people, sure - but we're far softer and less willing to accept the consequences and there'd be no language barrier hampering the jackboots.

I'm as pro-Second Amendment as it gets while still being American far Left/Socialist, and we should definitely put that whole train of thought back in the box - it does not end well for our side.
posted by Ryvar at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

New York State Becomes First in the Nation to Provide Lawyers for All Immigrants Detained and Facing Deportation

Good.

In addition, the NYC Department of Education issued a Letter from the Chancellor in January, and then updated it with a Letter to Parents last month. The January letter began:

"The New York City Department of Education (DOE) and the Mayor’s Office are committed to protecting the right of every student in New York City to attend public school, regardless of immigration status. We take pride in our diversity. Immigrant parents, students, principals, teachers and other staff are a part of what makes our schools, and New York City, the amazing, strong, vibrant places they are. Whether you or your family arrived 100 years or 100 days ago —you are New Yorkers— and we stand with you."

Taken together, they note:

* Federal agents, including Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) will not be permitted to enter schools, except when absolutely required by law.
* The DOE does not request information about students’ immigration status (or that of their families') and DOE staff will not release student information unless absolutely required to by law.
* DOE and the Mayor’s Office of Immigrant Affairs (MOIA) are expanding Know Your Rights workshops for students, parents and community members.
* DOE is also providing schools with additional curriculum resources and social-emotional supports.
* Anyone seeking immigration legal services will be referred to ActionNYC. a program that offers free, safe immigration legal help.

posted by zarq at 1:14 PM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Quoting InfoWars without visiting that cesspool: Donald Trump's biggest fans desert him over Syria air strikes (The Independent, April 7, 2017)

“I guess Trump wasn’t ‘Putin’s puppet’ after all, he was just another deep state/Neo-Con puppet,” wrote Paul Joseph Watson, a British vlogger who works at Alex Jones’s Infowars website. “I’m officially OFF the Trump train.”

Mr Watson said that he would instead divert his attention to Marine Le Pen, the French far-right politician who he said “tried to warn Trump against this disaster”. He then sent another tweet directly to Mr Trump that read: “Americans didn’t vote for you to intensify Hillary’s disastrous foreign policy” and included a link to one of Ms Clinton’s speeches.

From the headline, I was expecting screenshots of tweets. I'm not sure if this is better or worse.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:15 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's as if a team of conmen set up a pyramid scheme, and it worked out really well for them, but after they took their money out and retired the pyramid kept running, given over to the top layer of marks who still don't realize that pyramid schemes are a grift. So they're not going to do anything to contain the fallout from the con falling apart, because as far as they're concerned they really did find a foolproof way for anybody to get rich quick, and anyone who says otherwise is an anti-American traitor.

See also Project Mayhem. These guys are the Space Monkeys who actually overthrew civilization while Edward Norton was still working out his dumb masculine insecurities.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:17 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also from The Independent earlier today: Russia says US air strikes in Syria came 'within an inch' of military clash with their forces

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has said the US air strike on a Syrian air base came “within an inch” of militarily clashing with their forces.

He said the action taken by the Americans was in breach of international law and their own internal procedures, and accused Washington of “barely avoiding combat clashes with Russia”.

I'm not a puppet, you are! You are the puppet!

(Barely missed still counts as a miss, so this also feels like posturing all around)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:18 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

My biggest fear here is that Trump gets the message from this crap that if he bombs people he (mostly) stops getting beat up in the press for a week and (many) people start saying things about supporting the President for a while. So he decides he really kind of likes the feeling and we gotta find somewhere else to bomb.
posted by Justinian at 1:19 PM on April 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

Is Vince McMahon within the Russiamericanosphere?
posted by Yowser at 1:24 PM on April 7, 2017

Russia to close down Syria communications line with Pentagon: Interfax

Russia's Defence Ministry notified the Pentagon it would close down at 2100 GMT the communications line used to avoid accidental clashes in Syria, Interfax new agency said, citing the ministry spokesman.
posted by futz at 1:28 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

My biggest fear here is that Trump gets the message from this crap that if he bombs people he (mostly) stops getting beat up in the press for a week and (many) people start saying things about supporting the President for a while.

The worst of it is, the message is true.
posted by Coventry at 1:28 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

You've got to love the juxtaposition of those two stories: Russia says we came within an inch of hitting them, so therefore they're shutting down the hotline we use to coordinate these things so we don't hit them. It's total posturing, and incredibly dangerous posturing at that.
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

Is Vince McMahon within the Russiamericanosphere?

Do his longstanding ties with Boris Zhukov and Nikolai Volkoff count?
posted by peeedro at 1:33 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

I guess the hotline is superfluous given the open communication between the Trump administration and Putin. Easy enough to shut it down and make it look like the Russians take offense.
posted by gladly at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

The new hotline is Boris the Waiter who works in Mar-a-Lago. He always brings Trump his well-done steaks super-quick.
posted by emjaybee at 1:38 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oops.

WaPo: Sean Spicer’s completely avoidable mistake at Friday’s briefing

The White House staff let broadcast cameras set up in a makeshift briefing room at President Trump's Florida estate on Friday, expecting a briefing to start soon. And, as they do most weekdays, television networks teased the upcoming briefing, with on-screen text graphics or small video boxes showing the empty lectern ahead of Spicer's arrival.

But almost as soon as he arrived at the lectern, Spicer demanded the cameras be turned off.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:41 PM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Scotland! The worlds calls upon your for aid again!

EXT. ST. ANDREWS HOUSE COURTYARD - DAWN

. . . a GREAT BEACON FIRE is IGNITED. A BELL TOLLS urgently!

CLOSE ON: John Swinney looks tensely out across the mountains, then runs indoors.

INT. ST. ANDREWS HOUSE - DAWN. John Swinney bursts in.

JOHN SWINNEY
The beacons of Twitter! The beacons are lit! Trumpland calls for aid!

NICOLA STURGEON looks up startled. Derek McKay and Shona Robinson look on ... tension builds.

CLOSE ON: NICOLA STURGEON, head lowered . . . Slowly it rises - she looks JOHN SWINNEY in the EYE.

NICOLA STURGEON
Then Scotland will answer. Muster the Caldonians!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:48 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

Spicey really doesn't like being made fun of by satirists does he? Maybe that Daily Show sketch really got to him and he's just "fuck cameras, fuck exploitable footage" now.
posted by Talez at 1:48 PM on April 7, 2017

Is any outlet /besides/ Fox News reporting that a Russian ship is on an interception course with ours? I want to know how much liquor to put on this ice cream.
posted by corb at 1:57 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Since this is about the worst insult for a person in the English language, it should be interesting to watch people here and elsewhere come up with nastier ones.

This right here is pretty much why God created Scotland.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:58 PM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

My biggest fear here is that Trump gets the message from this crap that if he bombs people he (mostly) stops getting beat up in the press for a week and (many) people start saying things about supporting the President for a while. So he decides he really kind of likes the feeling and we gotta find somewhere else to bomb.

This is the thing I find most baffling about the rush of people on both sides of the aisle to say stuff like, "Say what you will about Trump, this was Presidential. He took a serious approach to a complicated problem." Yes, the Syrian Civil War is complicated, and that's why the last person on Earth I would want to try to solve it is someone who doesn't care, doesn't understand anything, and is just randomly lurching from position to position on it with no regard for the consequences. The quickest way to ensure that things in Syria get even worse is to have an idiot with control of the US military bumbling around indiscriminately in search of endorphin hits.

And part of me suspects that too many of the people who want to talk about how Good and Presidential he's acting by ordering bombings and special forces raids (as if he somehow suddenly understands the gravity of his actions now for the first time in his entire life) either don't actually care about the lives of anyone who stands to suffer and die because Trump wanted some flattering press or actually kind of want to keep expanding the eternal nightmare war for their own reasons.
posted by Copronymus at 2:00 PM on April 7, 2017 [45 favorites]

Stavridis, a former NATO commander, said that "decapitation is always a tempting strategy when you're faced with a highly unpredictable and highly dangerous leader."

"The question you have to ask yourself," he said, "is what happens the the day after you decapitate?

I believe the Constitution indicates that Mike Pence becomes President, although if we're talking a full French Revolution scenario it's hard to say, exactly.
posted by Copronymus at 2:03 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

Tomahawk maker's [=Raytheon's] stock up after U.S. launch on Syria

Fuck this shit.
posted by dhens at 2:08 PM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

New York State Becomes First in the Nation to Provide Lawyers for All Immigrants Detained and Facing Deportation

So I bounced around a lot as a wee tot, like ya do in a military family, but until 2007 I'd spent my life as a reasonably sentient being in Florida, Virginia, NC, and Texas. Then we moved to New York... and not even full-on no-shit NY, just Buffalo, which is like NY and Ohio had a baby.

But I will tell you it was like breathing free air for the first time. The differences in basic cultural assumptions were shocking, and things that were almost universal Down South, like being prayed at at your public high school graduation, were so unknown that people looked at me like I was crazy. And even the conservatives tended to be reasonably thoughtful Catholics instead of vicious everything-hating notional baptists.

And then it was nine years later and there was this ad on the tv about how NY law guarantees that pretty much every adult woman gets a free mammogram one way or another and call this number to find out how and remember, even if you don't have any insurance there are programs for you. And I was blown away again; the idea that such a thing would ever exist in NC or FL, much less Texas...

And now this. Holy fuck do I love yankeeland.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:09 PM on April 7, 2017 [49 favorites]

McConnell's stealing the pick must be punished.

The hundred+ lifetime federal picks, yes. Forcibly obstructing eight years of progress in bad faith and likely illegally. The 2008 financial crisis. Iraq II. Pissing on everyone after 9/11, ooh the omnipresent, ubiquitous surveillance state. Ken Starr. Newt, of course. Poppy's Iraq. And Panama (Poppy's, not David Lee's). Trickle-down steal from the poor - actually can somebody order pizza? This might take awhile.
posted by petebest at 2:15 PM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Seems like the EPA is pretending that Energy Star is still a thing, which is either refreshing, or sad for everyone.

Yeah, the ENERGY STAR awards are something I keep pointing out to folks at my company; since they've repeatedly honored us (and we're on this year's list for Sustained Excellence in Program Delivery which is great, even though it's just the electric programs and any ol' dope can save a kWh) it seems at least to me like we shouldn't stand around quietly while they go away. But we did at least send letters on behalf of LIHEAP and WAP to our various federal representatives so there's that.

But more excitingly and what gives me a glimmer of joy on this otherwise gloomy day, is that on perusing this year's list of ENERGY STAR partners, I see Big Ass Solutions receiving an Excellence Award for Product Design! This is wonderful! I've issued several rebates for their products (you can see Big Ass Fans in action at the Ikea in Bloomington, MN!) and while it's been a few years they will always have a soft spot in my heart. I mean, they're just great big de-stratification fans (though apparently really high quality ones), but as a company I will always love them for giving me a legitimate business reason to visit www.bigass.com from my work computer.

Big Ass Solutions' official website is here (SFW); they apparently no longer own that other domain. I didn't make it a link for a reason; I will not be held responsible for URLs you type into your own damn browser.
posted by nickmark at 2:15 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

And now this. Holy fuck do I love yankeeland.

What's quite painful is to see how the Upper Midwest, which was (in post-indigenous times of course) settled by Yankees moving west and then by waves of European immigrants, often fleeing oppression and black internally-displaced persons from the South) has moved from that kind of sane, reasonable and at least nominally compassionate governance into this Trumpist idiot-fascism. I mean, Michigan. Wisconsin, Iowa. Never particularly on the bleeding edge of culture mind you, but at one time we were a good-hearted people who left our (metaphorical and often physical) doors unlocked.

Ugh. It's so depressing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:16 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

What a night! And day! There are again so many details here that each in themselves would be major national and international incidents, and yet the media have again lost their minds and are now again imagining the unicorn is here: The Trump Pivot.

A slow start: Trump is enriching himself by hosting a state dinner at his private club. He is also doing this on the cheap, serving third class food and wine, thus adding to his gain from the transaction even on the microlevel. I mean, the boarding and security costs must be ten times the cost of providing a decent dinner. A side issue to this is that the institution of the White House actually helps every rooky president hosting guests by offering traditions of decorum and protocol that are seen by all involved as the baseline of hospitality and diplomacy.

Then, in the middle of dinner with the president of one of the most powerful nations on earth, Trump launches an illegal missile attack on a small country which has so far not attacked the US. The president of one of the most powerful nations on earth gets up and leaves, understandably. But this gets only a mention in US and Western press. Even though it is a major diplomatic incident which in normal times would have drawn worldwide headlines. Now things are getting rough.

Before this illegal missile attack, the Trump regime warned Russia who logically must have warned Syria. Making it painfully clear that this is pure Kabuki. The airfield is not damaged, and later news confirm that it is still functioning. Russia and Syria are game and add to the Kabuki madness by pretending to be offended over nothing.

All of this happens while the Republican Senate majority breaks Senate norms and confirms a radically conservative judge to the Supreme Court, and the Trump administration is under investigation for collusion with the Russian attempt to destabilize US democracy. These last items, which read as more innocent than the above, are actually the most radical and dangerous of all of the others, but everyone is so numbed after less than a hundred days of the Trump presidency that this is hardly discussed by the general public.

I probably forgot something.

And just about all the press across the US and Western Europe except far left and far right crazy conspiracy peddlers laud the President as finally having stepped into character. Before making this comment I went down to the store to buy a bottle of wine. Someone let my dog loose while he was outside the store, but he actually stepped into character and stayed in place. Now I will open that bottle of wine and celebrate my dog's unforeseen obedience until I fall into stupor and cannot relate to the world for several hours. This isn't a joke. I will call my therapist Monday, though. Promise.

And I do still have hope that all of you guys who are resisting will prevail.
posted by mumimor at 2:20 PM on April 7, 2017 [53 favorites]

Who needs a hotline when they can just use Twitter?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:21 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I mean, Michigan. Wisconsin, Iowa. Never particularly on the bleeding edge of culture mind you, but at one time we were a good-hearted people who left our (metaphorical and often physical) doors unlocked.

Fox News. Now available in ExtraJesus™ and Classic MindFuck™
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump Considers Major Shake-up of Senior White House Team

From the WSJ (Updated April 7, 2017 3:01 p.m. ET)(expanding on the Axios link posted upthread this morning):

President Donald Trump is considering a major shake-up of his senior White House team, a senior administration official said Friday.

Mr. Trump is unhappy with the infighting among his top advisers and is determined to see it end, the official said.

In recent days, he has talked to confidants about the performance of chief of staff Reince Priebus and has asked for the names of possible replacements. One candidate that people close to Mr. Trump have suggested is Gary Cohn, now the director of the National Economic Council and a former senior executive at Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

Mr. Trump is “trying out different names with his friends,” one person close to the White House said...

...he started asking friends to rate the performance of his top aides following the failure in March to pass a health-care bill through the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, the people said...

...The weight of the president’s frustrations appeared to be falling on Mr. Bannon, who has been at Mr. Trump’s side since August when he was brought in as part of the campaign’s third leadership team.

Mr. Kushner has aligned himself with Mr. Cohn and another top aide, Dina Powell —known as “the Goldman Sachs wing”—whose more moderate, globalist views have come into conflict with the economic nationalism espoused by Mr. Bannon, said one person with knowledge of the situation.

Mr. Bannon had little public role in the health-care bill, but as chief strategist he has responsibility for implementing Mr. Trump’s campaign promises.

posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:22 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

“whether it’s good politics to say so or not, the evidence from the 2016 election is very clear that attitudes about blacks, immigrants, and Muslims were a key component of Trump’s appeal.”


“whether it’s good politics to say so or not, the evidence from the 2016 election is very clear that attitudes about blacks, immigrants, and Muslims were a key component of Trump’s appeal.”


“whether it’s good politics to say so or not, the evidence from the 2016 election is very clear that attitudes about blacks, immigrants, and Muslims were a key component of Trump’s appeal.”



I want this to be the running chyron beneath every newscast from now until 2020.
posted by darkstar at 2:24 PM on April 7, 2017 [43 favorites]

But almost as soon as he arrived at the lectern, Spicer demanded the cameras be turned off.

Sean Spicer demands the press turn off their cameras, but CNN keeps rolling

While Spicer continues speaking, the camera lingers on what looks like a Costco-sized jar of off brand cheese puffs.

Direct link to Twitter video.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:30 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

Mr. Trump is unhappy with the infighting among his top advisers and is determined to see it end, the official said.

Utter, credulous, pandering bullshit. That's his management style and if the WSJ doesn't know that - but they do, of course, know that. This is sheer in-your-face bullshit for the sake of normalizing this fascist fuck.

From the Fox-owned Wall Street Journal! That bastion of . . . uh . . fascist norrrmalization? Seriously though, someone there ought to be ashamed and quit.
posted by petebest at 2:30 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

I believe the Constitution indicates that Mike Pence becomes President, although if we're talking a full French Revolution scenario it's hard to say, exactly.

You've reminded me of a quote from a Rush (yes, yes, I know) song I've been thinking about recently:

Lessons taught but never learned
All around us anger burns
Guide the future by the past
Long ago the mould was cast

For they marched up to Bastille Day
La guillotine claimed her bloody prize
Hear the echoes of the centuries
Power isn't all that money buys

posted by The Tensor at 2:34 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

My biggest fear here is that Trump gets the message from this crap that if he bombs people he (mostly) stops getting beat up in the press for a week and (many) people start saying things about supporting the President for a while.

You Cretins Are Going To Get Thousands Of People Killed
posted by homunculus at 2:43 PM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Holy shit the cheese puffs thing is real...? WHO BRINGS CHEESE PUFFS TO A BRIEFING??? Are they Sean's? A reporter's? When you're on TV, you risk cheeto dust, really?

America, you are hurting my brain.
posted by emjaybee at 2:44 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

WHO BRINGS CHEESE PUFFS TO A BRIEFING??? Are they Sean's? A reporter's? When you're on TV, you risk cheeto dust, really?

Maybe that's just a standard Mar-a-Lago perk. Barrels of cheese puffs, every room.
posted by rewil at 2:47 PM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

TWinbrook8: Mr. Trump is unhappy with the infighting among his top advisers and is determined to see it end, the official said.

Huh, has Trump changed, or is the unnamed Official trying to change the messaging from the past?

Trump, according to several former officials, doesn’t foster a team dynamic — instead he thrives off creating teams of rivals. “He’s been very successful at playing staff against each other to get him to a position that he can justify,” explained one Trump insider.

From the article titled Trump’s risky approach to the West Wing (Politico, January 10, 2017) - subtitle: The president-elect is creating a competition among his top advisers for his ear, ditching the models of his predecessors.

Ditching the models of functional government and adopting bullshit narcissistic corporate cronyism, I think they meant.

Also, I distrust any unnamed "senior administration official" who throws a fellow senior admin official, especially a politician, under the bus for a corporate CEO. FFS, was the upper echelon of the White House Cabal not rich enough?

"Get rid of that paltry millionaire, Reince Priebus," the cabal cackled. "Gary Cohn knows what it's like to be wealthy, Goldman Sachs just gave him a more than $100 million golden handshake."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:51 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Assad, Taunting Trump, Mounts New Attacks on the Town He Gassed
posted by futz at 2:58 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

The first of the three latest airstrikes occurred in Khan Sheikhoun at around 9:30 a.m. Friday and even as al Khani was describing it, two more came in rapid succession. It was 4:21 p.m. “At this moment, a warplane just struck the northern road into the city and is now maneuvering to carry out another strike,” he said. Five minutes later, he texted that a second airstrike had occurred in the city.

Local civilian volunteers, who are connected with a network of plane-spotters, reported that the aircraft was Russian and had taken off from the Hmemim military base in Latakia on the Mediterranean coast.
posted by futz at 3:01 PM on April 7, 2017

It would have been cheaper to send Chicago's Department of Transportation over to Syria to ensure their runway asphalt was full of holes and unusable.
posted by srboisvert at 3:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [41 favorites]

Assad, Taunting Trump, Mounts New Attacks on the Town He Gassed

This is why you'd like to have a broader plan for what happens after an air strike.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:03 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Assad, Taunting Trump, Mounts New Attacks on the Town He Gassed

Oh look, it's Roy Gutman. You may last remember him from making things up out of whole cloth to smear the YPG in The Nation. It is 100% unsurprising that he would pen this article in The Daily Beast and his credibility is roughly zero.
posted by indubitable at 3:05 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Now wait a minute. I spaced out the very first paragraph;

Just hours after the U.S. damaged a Syrian airbase linked to a chemical weapons attack, the Assad regime and its Russian ally launched three airstrikes against the very same rebel-held town where Assad was accused of using poison gas to kill more than 100 men, women, and children on Tuesday.

Tell me why we warned Russia again?
posted by futz at 3:05 PM on April 7, 2017

Oh shit, I did not know that indubitable. Hmm.
posted by futz at 3:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

To avoid provoking WWIII. Say what you will about Trump so far, that would probably be worse.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:07 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

@alex_mallin: Per pool, Tillerson later had to clarify for Ross, said it's technically 20 percent of the "7th wing" Syrian planes that were destroyed.

Tillerson awake and doing things!
posted by Artw at 3:23 PM on April 7, 2017

@alex_mallin: Per pool, Tillerson later had to clarify for Ross, said it's technically 20 percent of the "7th wing" Syrian planes that were destroyed.

let me see if I got this straight...

a VERY casual survey of the Syrian Arab Air Forces shows they have some Mig 29, at 22 million each, and some Mig 23 at 1 million each.

Wanna bet there was junk like the Mig 23 sitting around, and we spent 100million to destroy 20 million worth of obsolete inventory? More #winning
posted by mikelieman at 3:32 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm entertaining the notion that the handler said 'Yes, tell The Donald that we have been warned, we will be out of the way' and after a disastrous whatever (it really doesn't matter what at this point: mid-air collision, actual dogfight, bombing of Russian ground troops, you name it), Putin appears on television to loudly proclaim 'See! The western powers are rabidly anti-Russian! They wish to destroy us, we must strike first!', and there goes the rest of Ukraine, then Belarus, Latvia, Estonia and then Lithuania and on to Poland. Not nuclear war, of course, because nobody wants that, but if he can push this far, why not all the way back to pre-glasnost?

I mean, sure, America loves to get it's war on, but Putin would also really profit from getting the spotlight off of his kleptocracy and fiscal mis-management. We're going on the assumption that Putin kinda tossed a fiver on a longshot and made out like a bandit, but didn't realize to what kind of Idiot (with a capital I) he'd hitched his wagon. Perhaps his agency is stronger than we're giving credit.
posted by eclectist at 3:33 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Following up quickly.... Didn't see 7th wing. So, that's an attack squadron. Not 20% of 100 planes, like my assumption, but rather 20% of nbr planes in squadron. And this is starting to not be casual..
posted by mikelieman at 3:34 PM on April 7, 2017

My take is it's passive-aggressiveness by the White House communications department. All the reporters get orange grime all over their fingers and their notes.

That's not "passive aggression," it's "extending the Trump brand."
posted by Lyme Drop at 3:36 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

mikelieman: I believe that the 7th wing flies Mig-25s.
posted by Justinian at 3:38 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I suspect crippling the Syrian air force would not exactly be hard and was entirely not the goal, nor was hampering it in any significant way.
posted by Artw at 3:39 PM on April 7, 2017

Hmmm, I could be wrong, a quick googling suggests that Syria only operates a handful of Foxbats.
posted by Justinian at 3:40 PM on April 7, 2017

Wikipedia suggests it was a mix of Mig-23s and Su-22s at al-Shayrat. Wikipedia is never wrong.
posted by Justinian at 3:43 PM on April 7, 2017

This shows one of the biggest weaknesses of our government org chart: Yes, in theory, you can investigate the president, and yes, in theory, congress is supposed to be the ones deciding about minor things like attacking other countries and assorted trifles. But the reality is the president has huge power to distract and dissuade through "shock and awe", to the point where I would be surprised if it's actually impossible to impeach a modern president.
posted by maxwelton at 3:44 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ok, so for a MIG-25, I've found a number, 2.69 million USD each. ( Indian Defence Ministry )

But the point I'm making is our rate of return on the expense of firing these missiles is horrible unless the place was full of 20 million dollar MIG-29's. Which, given the advance warning, I'm sure it wasn't. sad.
posted by mikelieman at 3:45 PM on April 7, 2017

Per Air Forces Monthly:

"The aircraft at the airfield comprised the majority of the Syrian Arab Air Force’s surviving Su-22 fighter-bombers. These represent the SyAAF’s main strike asset, and it is thought around ten were at al-Shayrat."
...

"Prior to the US missile strike, the SyAAF operated perhaps 30 Fitters, comprising Su-22M3, Su-22M4K and two-seat Su-22UM3K versions, operated by three squadrons."
...

"Reports from Russia24 correspondent Evgeny Poddubny at the airfield suggest that at least nine aircraft were destroyed in the US attack, although this total is likely to include other assets at al-Shayrat.

A statement from the Russian MoD describes the destruction of “a warehouse of material and technical property, a training building, a canteen, six MiG-23 aircraft in repair hangars and a radar station…” While the ‘MiG-23’ aircraft may have been misidentified, they are known to have been based at al-Shayrat. On the other hand, at least one photo does seem to show a Su-22 destroyed in its HAS."
...

"As well as the Fitters of 677 Squadron, the base was also home to a detachment of seven or eight Su-24MK2 Fencer strike aircraft, between five and eight MiG-23MF and MiG-23MLD Flogger fighters, five or six L-39ZA/ZO Albatros advanced trainer/light attack aircraft, and around 10 Mi-25/Mi-35 Hind helicopters. Interestingly, it seems that the Mi-35s at least were operated by joint Syrian/Russian crews."

Obviously Russian info is suspect, but it seems possible 9 aircraft were destroyed; 6 MIG-23s, 1 SU-22 and two unidentified aircraft.
posted by chris24 at 3:49 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

White House has no clear plan for next steps in Syria after missile strike
posted by Artw at 3:49 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Holy shit my neighborhood just got buzzed by 4 F-35s in formation...that's what they looked like anyway, flying low and slow. LOUD. This is Navy/Marines country but they NEVER fly low like that.

This may be military country, but it's also home for tens of thousands of immigrants and refugees from around the world. Sending a message much?
posted by snsranch at 3:50 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I hate when evil people make arguments you agree with.

@Cernovich
Y'all get mad about SINGLER PAYER? For 10% the price of Iraq War, every American could have platinum healthcare. Wake up.

@Cernovich
Young people are ENSLAVED with lifetime student loan debt, but we have money for more wars? Brainwashed people, unfollow now!
posted by chris24 at 3:59 PM on April 7, 2017 [50 favorites]

I hate when evil people make arguments you agree with.

Me, every time David Frum says something rational.
posted by mikelieman at 3:59 PM on April 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Ok, to close out my analysis of the economic effect of Trump's Syrian Adventure:

Donald Trump, best businessman in the world, just launched 100 million in Tomahawk missiles at an airfield, destroying MAYBE 9 aircraft; 6 MIG-23s, 1 SU-22 and two unidentified aircraft, but I doubt we'll get better numbers.

Mig 23s are < 3 million a pop. ( Indian Defence Ministry )

COST/BENEFIT ANALYSIS:

Cost: 60 * 1.59 = 95.4 million.

Benefit: 9 * 2.69 = 27.0 million.

Loss: ( 68.4 million )

Military effect: Didn't put airfield out of commission. Combat ops resumed < 24 hours.

The best businessman in the world can't read a fucking spreadsheet.
posted by mikelieman at 4:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

I believe that the 7th wing flies Mig-25s.

Using MiG-25's (or their children, MiG-31's) as attack planes would be a very weird and puzzling thing to do. They're pretty much dedicated interceptors, not even really fighters, kinda like the F-106 or Lightning.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:03 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Cost: 60 * 1.59 = 95.4 million.

Benefit: 9 * 2.69 = 27.0 million.

Loss: ( 68.4 million )


Distracting from RussiaGate: Priceless.
posted by chris24 at 4:04 PM on April 7, 2017 [45 favorites]

White House has no clear plan for next steps in Syria after missile strike

well that pivot didn't last long.

sadly, trump can only be "presidential" in 90 minute increments
posted by murphy slaw at 4:07 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

60 * 1.59 = 95.4 million.

9 * 2.69 = 27.0 million.

That's numberwang!
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:09 PM on April 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

Presumably we have a lot more money than they do though, so what we spend to incapacitate them (to the extent that we incapacitated them) can't be calculated in $$$ only. Plus Syria will pay for the missiles.
posted by willnot at 4:10 PM on April 7, 2017

"Assad, Taunting Trump, Mounts New Attacks on the Town He Gassed"

Trump's but a spray-tanned shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour in the White House
And then is heard no more: his is a war
Fought by an idiot, full of tweets and missiles,
Signifying nothing.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:14 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

The best businessman in the world can't read a fucking spreadsheet.

It's not his money.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:16 PM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Holy shit my neighborhood just got buzzed by 4 F-35s in formation...that's what they looked like anyway, flying low and slow. LOUD. This is Navy/Marines country but they NEVER fly low like that.

Yup. They're even louder than the twin engine F-18s that they're replacing.
posted by indubitable at 4:18 PM on April 7, 2017

thy had a b-2 bomber flyover the stadium here one year. Loud as hell and terrifying, although I guess you'd not see it if it was attacking you
posted by thelonius at 4:48 PM on April 7, 2017

If you need a break from all this, Evolene the cat is giving birth at TinyKittens HQ
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:50 PM on April 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

I saw a B-2 fly low over downtown Columbus, OH once. It was performing in an air show. It looked like it should fall out of the sky.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:58 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hate when evil people make arguments you agree with.

Just remember that when they're advocating single payer or whatever, there's always the unspoken "...for white people" implied.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:58 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Christ. These clowns even did a photo so they could show Trump cosplaying a president based on that time Obama took out bin Laden.

The probably faux bamboo chairs are what really lends a sense of solemnity to this gathering.

At first I thought "Holy crap! Why do they have such ugly chairs in the White House?" and then I remembered it was at Basurero al Lado del Lago.
posted by srboisvert at 5:00 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

I googled what the interior of Mar a Lago looked like. It's like one of Saddam Hussein's palaces was airlifted and dropped into Florida.
posted by Justinian at 5:08 PM on April 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

I would be surprised if it's actually impossible to impeach a modern president.

We'll take that bet, they're gonna regret, 'cause they're the worst that's ever been!

♫Fire on the mountain, run boy run♫
Ah-deedle-deedle-deedle-dee-dee-doot-doo-deedle-dee
Devil's in the-

I haz a shame
posted by petebest at 5:09 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

MSNBC just showed footage of Jason Chaffetz in 2013 literally saying "It's a mistake to think we can just send a Tomahawk in" and change the situation in Syria in any real way.
posted by XMLicious at 5:13 PM on April 7, 2017 [40 favorites]

#TimeTravelHannity sends us a message from 2013: Glad our arrogant Pres. is enjoying his taxpayer funded golf outing after announcing the US should take military action against Syria.
posted by scalefree at 5:31 PM on April 7, 2017 [47 favorites]

Tulsi Gabbard ladies and gentlemen.

Tulsi Gabbard 'skeptical' Assad regime behind gas attack

-- "There are a number of theories that are out there," Gabbard said during an interview on CNN's "The Situation" when addressing who was behind the attack.

-- "There are a number of ways that you can point the finger," she said.

Pressed to specify if Assad was responsible for civilian deaths in Syria, as the U.S. and Western leaders have maintained, Gabbard said that responsibility "goes around."

-- Asked if she would change her mind if the Pentagon would present her with hard evidence that Assad was behind the chemical attack, the lawmaker replied "no."

But

-- "If President Assad is found to be responsible after an independent investigation for these horrific chemical weapons attack, I'll be the first one to denounce him."
posted by futz at 5:43 PM on April 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

I googled what the interior of Mar a Lago looked like. It's like one of Saddam Hussein's palaces was airlifted and dropped into Florida.

The general contractor, then, was almost certainly the Bluth Company.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:44 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

On September 13 of that year, when it became clear the US would not take military action, Mr Trump wrote: "We should stop talking, stay out of Syria and other countries that hate us, rebuild our own country and make it strong and great again-USA!"

But then again - words. They don't matter, folks. Believe me.
posted by petebest at 5:45 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

From the Gabbard article above,
Trump claimed Thursday after the strike that “there can be no dispute that Syria used banned chemical weapons” and that “numerous previous attempts at changing Assad’s behavior have all found and failed very dramatically.”

The attempts to change his behavior found very dramatically. I'll bet. That three-day workweek is stretching them talkin' neurons thiiiiiiiiin.
posted by petebest at 5:53 PM on April 7, 2017

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The Last Filibuster

Once upon a time in a place called the Senate there was a thing called the Filibuster.

The Senate was once known as the world’s greatest deliberative body, probably because people had not seen any other deliberative bodies to compare it to. There, the Filibuster dwelled in relative peace and security. At first, it appeared only occasionally to trouble the Senators by interrupting their business and devouring hours of their time with long speeches. The Senators learned that this rogue beast could only be placated by bipartisan cooperation and sixty votes for “cloture” (not closure; you can never have closure.) This was because the Filibuster came from a bygone era when bipartisan compromise was readily available and flowed freely in smoke-filled rooms, before the members of the opposition party were replaced by hideous beasts with tentacles with whom it was impossible to find any common ground (the exact date of this transformation varies depending on your source and may be as early as 2013 or as late as JUST NOW).

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:01 PM on April 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

“Trump’s missile attack on Syria might be satisfying. But it’s not legal,” Andrew Rudalevige, The Washington Post, 07 April 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 6:11 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Has any reporter or blogger covered the "yeah? well what are you going to do about it?" contingency? It wasn't so long ago that Dick Cheney's "Go Fuck Yourself" to Pat Leahy passed with little (effective) comment.
posted by rhizome at 6:22 PM on April 7, 2017

Artw White House has no clear plan for next steps in Syria after missile strike

I heard some analyst or another on NPR sort of going the opposite, or more hopeful, way than the Guardian article you linked.

What neither of them said, and I think because they're bound by rules of neutrality or decorum, or what have you, is the obvious: there **CAN NOT** be plans, or next steps, or an overarching strategy because Trump has neither the capability nor the desire to produce one.

We are not dealing with an ordinary Presidency where actions are the result of a plan, or a strategy, however good or bad.

We are dealing with a Presidency more like Reagan's only turned up to 11. There is no one in charge, the President is a senile doddering old man who acts based on what he imagines is best in line with his macho image and what he imagines will produce the best ratings. He didn't attack the airbase in Syria out of any sort of plan or strategy, not even a bad plan or strategy, he attacked it simply because he felt, at that moment, that it was the most macho response that would provoke the most cheers when he talked about it at his next rally.

To ask "what is the Trump plan for Syria and the larger region", or "what is the Trump plan for dealing with Russia's entanglements with Assad and how will that affect US actions" is to ask the wrong questions.

For a normal presidency those would be good and valid questions. Even under Junior those would be good and valid questions.

I'm not sure anyone in the formal media is prepared to engage the Trump administration honestly, they still seem to either be hoping that somewhere under all the stupidity there's a normal presidency, or they think they have to at least pretend there is. Either way it makes their analysis worthless because their analysis is based on faulty premises.

The Guardian article came closer, I think to think, to honesty than the person I was listening to on NPR, but neither was willing to go to the actual truth.

Why did Trump seemingly turn on his long time ally and patron Putin? Not out of any plan, just because he has neither loyalty nor honesty and he he does whatever, in his broken mind, he imagines will benefit him most at any particular moment. Right then it seemed as if bombing Assad's airbase was a good idea, considerations of the larger geopolitical picture weren't merely irrelevant to that decision, they weren't even considered and dismissed, Trump simply forgot they such considerations existed; if he'd ever known to begin with.

Someone apparently kept their head at least long enough to let Russia know the strike was coming, and it's depressing that my hope at this point is that Putin agreed to let the strike take place as part of **HIS** plans, but I flat out guarantee you that Trump didn't think to warn/ask Putin. Not his circus, not his monkeys. He wanted to make things go boom, that was the beginning and end of his "policy".

What will Trump do in the future? No one has any idea, including him.

What are his plans for the larger conflict and region? He has none. He probably isn't even aware of the larger conflict and its linkages to the rest of the world.

Until the analysts can accept the truth about Trump they're just spinning their wheels.
posted by sotonohito at 6:23 PM on April 7, 2017 [50 favorites]

New York is so fucked if this happens.
Donald Trump Jr. talks about running for governor of New York

my god. this is the apocolypse.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:27 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's Chuck Lorre's business model applied to politics.
posted by rhizome at 6:29 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump Jr. talks about running for governor of New York

The first time Trump floated the idea of running for president was 1987. So if Jr works at the same pace as his father, New Yorkers have thirty more years to nurse a grudge before they get to vote on the matter.
posted by peeedro at 6:34 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Standing around and pointing fingers does not accomplish peace for the Syrian people," Gabbard said, asserting the need for concrete evidence before assigning blame.

One more to the list of people whose graves should have plumbing.
posted by ocschwar at 6:35 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

It might be smart to start pasting "Eric Trump for Governor" signs all over Manhattan.
posted by rhizome at 6:35 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

"but the position of mayor of New York would be less interesting to him."

I feel like the subeditor has removed 'utterly unavailable to'.
posted by jaduncan at 6:36 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ospreys over Cambridge, MA. WTF???
posted by ocschwar at 6:39 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

One thing I'd like to see, once the Democrats retake control, is a national anti-nepotism law. Not only barring the close family of the President from working in any capacity (paid or not) for the White House, but a broader anti-Aristocracy sort of law that limits each close family to exactly one person holding office and imposes a, say, 10 year moratorium on people from the same close family from participating in politics.

Your father was President? Great, you are now ineligible to hold **ANY** elected or appointed government office until ten years after your father leaves office.

Your daughter is a Senator? OK, she's the one permitted elected official in your close family, you can't run for any office or hold any appointed government position until 10 years after she leaves office.

Your brother is a state representative? He's taken your immediate family's spot for the next ten years, you and everyone else in your immediate family had best just forget about government work for a while.

This would, for example, make Chelsea Clinton ineligible to hold either elected or appointed government office, at any governmental level down to dog catcher, until 2023 (because Hillary Clinton stopped being Secretary of State in 2013). Likewise we'd have to limit ourselves to just one of the Castro brothers.

We do not need aristocracies in the USA. I'm sure this plan would keep many good and useful people from holding office, but you know what? We've got 318 million people in the USA, I'm pretty sure we can find good and qualified people who aren't closely related to pre-existing politicians. Julian Castro is a cool dude, I like him, but I'm willing to forgo having him hold office while his brother is a Representative. There's plenty of equally cool dudes out there.
posted by sotonohito at 6:41 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

You'd better ban those family members from lobbying as well.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:47 PM on April 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

New York is so fucked if this happens.
Donald Trump Jr. talks about running for governor of New York

my god. this is the apocolypse.

Trump lost New York by 23 points. People know him and hate him here, Uday and Qusay even more. Let Junior run, he'll be humiliated.
posted by chris24 at 6:51 PM on April 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

jaduncan: "but the position of mayor of New York would be less interesting to him.".

Am I the only one imagining that somewhere in this plan he's going to transform into a giant snake?
posted by Superplin at 6:53 PM on April 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

thy had a b-2 bomber flyover the stadium here one year. Loud as hell and terrifying, although I guess you'd not see it if it was attacking you

I had the exact opposite experience, they had some fighter jets fly over and they were deafening, then the B-2 went by and it was eerily quiet for such a huge plane.

Edit: looks like other folks agree, even use the same adjective.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:54 PM on April 7, 2017

If Junior runs it will result in enough sweet, sweet schadenfreude to fill an ocean.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump lost New York by 23 points. People know him and hate him here, Uday and Qusay even more. Let Junior run, he'll be humiliated.

And guarantees Cuomo another term.
posted by mikelieman at 7:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ospreys over Cambridge, MA. WTF???

I see Black Hawks in the Boston area with some regularity... never Ospreys as of yet.
posted by Behemoth at 7:11 PM on April 7, 2017

I think because they're bound by rules of neutrality or decorum,

FNPR. But I digress.

Why did Trump seemingly turn on his long time ally and patron Putin? Not out of any plan, just because he has neither loyalty nor honesty and he he does whatever, in his broken mind, he imagines will benefit him most at any particular moment.

I agree with the sentiment, but would suggest he's been given a small list of options and "encouraged" to choose. He has no depth of knowledge whatsoever - someone or group of people talked him into, in this case, bombing Syria expensively and ineffectively. Who? Bannon? McMaster? Hamburgl, er, Hannity? The Jared?

To suggest he could link "bomb them" to "they'll love me" is one thing. To make it actually "go" in real life? Naw. He never decides anything - someone else does and convinces him he did it himself. It's at least one reason he has no plan, because it would require forethought. Which is what little people do for him.
posted by petebest at 7:12 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ochswar: Ospreys over Cambridge, MA.

Now a helicopter in northeast Rhode Island.

Any idea what's going on?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:12 PM on April 7, 2017

Any idea what's going on?

RUSSIAN PSYOP SPRAYING CHEMTRAILS TO MIND CONTROL BERNIE BROS
posted by indubitable at 7:15 PM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Bannon and Kushner hold sit-down in attempt to bury the hatchet

Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner, two warring senior White House aides, had a bury-the-hatchet meeting officiated by President Donald Trump, after arriving at Mar-a-Lago this week.

The sit-down, which was confirmed by two White House officials, was an attempt to smooth over tensions between the two men, which have dominated headlines for days. Whether the meeting was successful in creating a détente – and how long it lasts – is an open question, especially in a White House that has been dominated by infighting.

posted by futz at 7:19 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Fwiw, random tweet:

USAF Osprey 1st ever flight through Cad @TheMachLoop 05.04.17 @RAFMildenhall @CivMilAir @MachLoopLFA7 @planesonthenet #avgeek #USAF pic.twitter.com/RPUORFb9bG

Based on context, first Osprey to fly through Canada was this last Wednesday?
posted by petebest at 7:23 PM on April 7, 2017

Ochswar: Ospreys over Cambridge, MA.

Now a helicopter in northeast Rhode Island.

Any idea what's going on?

One thing I've learned being active in the Boston tweet-o-verse is that there are A LOT of helicopters that fly over the Boston area all the time. Aside from the medical and news copters, the National Guard does training missions around here and the regular military seems to like doing training in our little urban area, too. It's not necessarily anything suspicious - especially with the Marathon coming up soon. In fact, this is about the time when the National Nuclear Security Administration does its annual copter-based pre-Marathon background-radiation check of the Boston area (although not with Ospreys).
posted by adamg at 7:34 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sure, we are near an airport and I am used to the medflights, but this was lower and louder than usual, heading up toward metro Boston. Just rather out if the ordinary. No worries.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:42 PM on April 7, 2017

The best businessman in the world can't read a fucking spreadsheet.

It's not his money.

He's working on that.
posted by Devonian at 7:50 PM on April 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

There was a goldfinch in my backyard bird feeder earlier today, but it looked really shifty-eyed. Though, it might have been packing and just on the lookout for potential grizzlies.
posted by XMLicious at 7:51 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Since the bees have failed us, we must turn to the birds.
posted by medusa at 7:54 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump launched a symbolic airstrike on a single target, and warned the target's allies ahead of time that it was coming so they could move themselves (and equipment) out of the way. The airstrip is apparently already functional again. Assad has barely been damaged. Trump has benefited from increased popularity and perceived distance from Putin. Could Putin have also benefited from a newly-popular Trump? Maybe this event is a way for three good friends to help each other out.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:06 PM on April 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

A Russian Drone May Have Turned Off Its Camera Right Before A Syrian Hospital Was Bombed

US officials suspect that Russia operated a drone and military aircraft that surveyed and struck a Syrian hospital treating victims of the chemical attack that prompted US airstrikes on a Syrian airfield days later, two US officials told BuzzFeed News on Friday.

Military officials suspect that someone turned off the camera onboard the Russian unmanned drone just before the strike on the hospital Tuesday, effectively turning a blind eye to the attack. The officials did not make clear how the US was able to determine when the drone’s camera was recording.

The assessment that Russia may have been behind the hospital attack, if accurate, would be the first evidence that Russian pilots stationed in Syria may have been aware of the attack carried out by Syrian planes. The Syrian aircraft were among the 20 aircraft destroyed by the US strike campaign on Thursday night, according to the Pentagon. US radar tracked the Russian plane taking off and hitting the hospital, one of the US officials told BuzzFeed News. US officials believe the attack on the hospital may have been an attempt to destroy evidence of the sarin gas attack.
posted by futz at 8:07 PM on April 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Politico says that Trump ran a "bury-the-hatchet meeting" to try to fix things between Bannon and Kushner. Not sure how that went, but #FireKushner is now trending nationally on Twitter thanks to alt-right folks who think Kushner is preventing the fulfillment of their wildest dreams. So that's all going great. Has there ever been a public campaign to fire a White House official not because he said or did something bad, but simply as part of a battle for power between warring factions of aides? Because this is bananas.

Turning our attention to healthcare: No ‘Death Spiral’: Insurers May Soon Profit From Obamacare Plans, Analysis Finds. S&P ran an analysis of Blue Cross plans in nearly three dozen states and found that things are looking pretty good. However, there is significant concern that political uncertainty will cause insurers to pull out of the exchanges, as nobody can trust Congress not to wreck everything.

Today's odd-and-end: An NRA employee accidentally shot himself at NRA headquarters. He reportedly "suffered a minor wound to his lower body and was taken to a hospital for treatment."
posted by zachlipton at 8:07 PM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

Politico says that Trump ran a "bury-the-hatchet meeting" to try to fix things between Bannon and Kushner.

First one to bury the hatchet in their opponent keeps their job
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

Brian Beutler: [F]or my money, the most consequential decision of McConnell’s career (and, since this is McConnell we’re talking about, the most diabolical decision as well) came last summer—amid intense, classified, bipartisan discussions about how to respond to Russian election interference—which remained undisclosed until December.
...
You can fault the Obama White House, to some degree, for acquiescing to McConnell, but it’s worth noting that McConnell clearly understood his threat to be more ominous than simply to call Obama mean names. The claim of partisanship would have implied that Obama was using contested intelligence to meddle in the election on Hillary Clinton’s behalf. This would have invited the press to summon yet-more dark clouds over both of them, and lead, most likely, to a new, urgent congressional investigation. Consider the media and GOP congressional response to the unfounded allegation that Susan Rice spied on Donald Trump, and you can see the Obama White House had good reason to take McConnell’s threat seriously.

The upshot is that McConnell drew a protective fence around Russian efforts to sabotage Clinton’s candidacy, by characterizing any effort to stop it as partisan politicization of intelligence at Trump’s expense.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on April 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

Dashy: August 29, 2013: 'What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval. ' - toddler twitter.

Oh, there's more:

"Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate." -- November 9, 2012

And

AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA - IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING! -- September 5, 2013
posted by filthy light thief at 8:11 PM on April 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Wonder why Bannon hates Kushner so much anyway. Maybe because he's Polish?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:12 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's a reason that is related to something involving Poland, for sure.
posted by Artw at 8:18 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

Kushner ate that 4-day old sub he'd been saving in his office dorm fridge. He knew it was that little punk Kushner. Oh, it's on like Donkey Kong now Mr.-I-Don't-Even-Like-Jersey-Mikes! Just as soon as he gets some more J. Walker down, he's gonna go over there and- oh no way - he's been in the Johnnie Walker! Oh, that is IT. Bannon Smash!
posted by petebest at 8:19 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

America's Tomahawk Missile Attack on Syria's Shayrat Air Base Was a Sham
But is a target like Shayrat Air Base even worth striking if you are not willing to use the proper weapon system, or combination of weapon systems, to do it? In effect, by sending throngs of TLAMs against hardened aircraft shelters and the like, commanders are knowingly putting the missiles to work in a symbolic gesture, with limited expected results.
...
And no, the no-goodnicks of the world are not cowering in fear of America once again because Trump decided to toss some missiles at a throwaway target. They aren't as easily duped as the average cable news viewer. These bad guys have teams of people to closely evaluate the threat the US poses to them and their capabilities—it's called a military—and seeing the US throw 59 $1.5 million Tomahawks at an old and tired Syrian satellite airfield with little effect makes us look weak and stupid, not strong.
...
And despite what you hear from the giddy generals, Assad has not paid for his dastardly acts, he didn't even receive a slap on the wrist. But still we have to pay for this attack in the form of major repercussions nonetheless.

Just as predicted, Russia has now pulled out from their agreement with Washington to work to deconflict the crowded airspace over Syria so that coalition aircraft don't end up in a shooting match with Russian aircraft. Not just that, but now we have no way to get in touch with Russian commanders if Syrian or Russian jets bomb American or allied forces. And the hotline setup under this agreement is no theoretical game of geopolitical paddy-cake. It has been used numerous times before. Now that this no longer exists—and yes our commanders in Baghdad have said the line has gone dead—our troops and aircrews are in far greater danger than they were before. Not just that, but there is a much better chance that a relatively small incident that could be forestalled from spinning out of control with a simple call will now lead to a far darker place.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:26 PM on April 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

D AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA - IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING! -- September 5, 2013

Somebody wrote a good column in the last couple of weeks explaining that Trump is always right in his pronouncements, but his timing of them is always wrong.
posted by nubs at 8:27 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

He always tweets the right thing, but the letters aren't necessarily in the right order
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:29 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not much of a surprise...
‘Horrible’ pictures of suffering moved Trump to action on Syria...

When President Trump began receiving his intelligence briefings in January, his team made a request: The president, they said, was a visual and auditory learner. Would the briefers please cut down on the number of words in the daily briefing book and instead use more graphics and pictures?
posted by rdr at 8:51 PM on April 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

The Times has more color on this Bannon-Kushner meeting in Trump Fires Warning Shot in Battle Between Bannon and Kushner:

As he grappled on Thursday with his first major decision involving military action, a fed-up and frustrated President Trump turned to his two top aides and told them he had had enough of their incessant knife-fights in the media.

“Work this out,” Mr. Trump said, according to two people briefed on the exchange. The admonition was aimed at Stephen K. Bannon, the tempestuous chief strategist, and Reince Priebus, the mild-mannered chief of staff, over a series of dust-ups with Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, and the top economic adviser, Gary D. Cohn.

But they may not be able to.
...
Mr. Bannon, a hard-charging, fast-talking confidant of the president’s whose roving job in the White House has given him influence over policy and hiring decisions, now finds himself in the undesirable position of being caught between the president and his family. That is a position that others have not survived, most notably Corey Lewandowski, the first of the president’s three campaign managers.

posted by zachlipton at 8:52 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I want to laugh at the cheese jokes but the likelihood of World War III increasing means they all taste like ash in my mouth.
posted by corb at 8:53 PM on April 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

#FireKushner is now trending nationally on Twitter thanks to alt-right folks who think Kushner is preventing the fulfillment of their wildest dreams.

Yeah, well here's the thing. Bannon, while not Jewish, isn't married to The Family's Favorite Daughter, and at the end of the day, the American Nazis are going to have to suck it up and deal. ( What's the over under before the anti-Semitic attacks, or have they already begun... DON'T ANSWER THAT! )
posted by mikelieman at 8:57 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

"if the 'alt-right' wanted to write a betrayal narrative that touched all the ideological erogenous zones on that fetid body of thought they could scarcely have come up with material more charged, melodramatic and grand."

Josh Marshall - "Inside the Emerging Trumpian Alt-Right Snuff Novel"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:08 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am detecting a gaslighting-type effort against anybody (e.g. Gabbard) exercising even a little bit of honest skepticism about the official version of events. We are to believe (prior to anything resembling an independent investigation) that Assad is so stupidly wicked that he would do the most strategically irrational thing he could possibly do a few days before a major international summit, at the same time that we are to believe that Al-fucking-Qaeda is morally incapable of doing the most strategically rational thing that they could possibly do under the circumstances. Yes it's possible. Maybe he is really that stupid. But until there's a proper investigation (remembering that the investigation into the 2013 attacks was inconclusive with regard to culpability) I am not going to condemn somebody for mistrusting the same folks who gaslit anybody in 2003 that said Saddam had no WMD. Yes Assad is evil, but try to remember who Al Qaeda are before you condemn Trump for not blowing up enough of the people fighting them.
posted by moorooka at 9:15 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump said Assad had a free pass not a week before. Other countries aren't so quick to bomb countries without a plan.

False Flags are for /pol/ .
posted by Yowser at 9:22 PM on April 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

I am detecting a gaslighting-type effort against anybody (e.g. Gabbard) exercising even a little bit of honest skepticism about the official version of events.

TUlsi Gabbard does not give a shit about what happened there. She's a self-interested shill, and unlike Trump, she doesn't get the benefit of wondering if she's suffering senile dementia.

We are to believe (prior to anything resembling an independent investigation) that Assad is so stupidly wicked

You really think he has that tight a control over his army? It's a fragmented, multi-militia civil war. Rogue officers infest every party in this.
posted by ocschwar at 9:23 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

I will say people are getting excited about Beto O'Rourke's run for Cruz's seat. At first it was kinda "who?" But I've heard from people who have gone to his first few town halls/fundraising gigs and said he was passionate and super charismatic. I still kinda suspect it would take a Latinx to win, but Beto is apparently beloved in El Paso and fluent in Spanish, so maybe?

Assuming we are still here in 2018 of course.
posted by threeturtles at 9:28 PM on April 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Syrians on Reddit have pointed out that Khan Shaykhon, the area hit by the gas attack, was a Muslim Brotherhood hotbed in the previous civil war.

So there is the distinct possibility that the Syrian army decided do it purely because they wanted people in Khan Shaykhoun to die. Shocking to learn that such things can happen in a civil war, but well, they do.
posted by ocschwar at 9:31 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

So finally Assad has the US onside and the war nearly won - that sounds like a great time to do the one thing guaranteed to lose US support without conferring any military advantage.

Maybe it was an order from a completely idiotic Assad. Maybe it was a rogue Syrian officer. Maybe it was a weapons stockpile that got hit. Maybe it was Al Qaeda or ISIS, who have chemical weapons and have been using them.

There are numerous possibilities of which a command from the top seems - to me - one of the less plausible (but still plausible of course). A verdict should be based on a neutral investigation and not just the argument that the Syrian government is evil beyond the point of rationality (which was basically the case for invading Iraq). The Syrian army killed thousands in Aleppo without gas and has no shortage of methods of making people die.

As for Gabbard being a demented shill, this is what I mean by gaslighting. It's not crazy to want evidence (especially for a veteran of aforementioned Iraq War), and it's not crazy to oppose military action that unequivocally strengthens Al Qaeda and ISIS.
posted by moorooka at 9:41 PM on April 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Politico Magazine has a frightening piece by the former head of the National Security Division of DOJ under Obama: The Russians Are Coming. Again. Apparently, nobody was paying attention (or we all had worse stuff to worry about) when Comey and Rogers testified that Russia will be back to attack us again. Because nobody seems to care about the massive and blindingly obvious security threat by an adversary with a proven track record of pulling this stuff off successfully:

Why aren’t we more concerned?

If we knew that a foreign power or terrorist group would take down our electrical grid on a specific date next year, or compromise our water systems, or launch an attack on a major national landmark in three year’s time, we would expect our government to be moving heaven and earth to secure those areas. There would be task forces, SWAT teams and blue-ribbon commissions running all over the place. Yet the warning that Russia has its sights on the very foundation of our democracy—a government elected and chosen of, by, and for the people—has seemingly gone unheeded.

There is actually good reason to believe that what we witnessed last year might just be the opening salvo of even more sophisticated attacks.

One interesting thing is that he claims that Russia would have manipulated vote totals had they been able to do so. I haven't seen anyone assert this so boldly or any real evidence for this claim, and there are certainly competing theories that simply creating FUD and uncertainty by probing around was effective enough. Regardless, Russia will almost certainly be back.
posted by zachlipton at 9:57 PM on April 7, 2017 [38 favorites]

I mean, why would we expect Republcians, who are in control of all levels of government, and benefit from their unacknowledged alliance with Russia, to do anything about it? Wasn't that the whole point? Won't Republicans be assisting Russian hacking even more directly next time using the full power of the federal government?

Just like they benefit from Americans not voting and engage in suppression at every opportunity, they've learned that overt coordination and even outright treason to hack elections has no consequences, only immense benefits. They'll keep doing it.

Republicans are the party of Russia now, they've already sold out their country in exchange for being the named caretakers of a client state.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 PM on April 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

I like El Paso a lot, from the Mongolian architecture of the University, to its weird culturally blind homage to Oñate at the airport, but I'm pretty sure beloved by El Paso is the political kiss of death not only in Texas, but also New Mexico and Chihuahua.
posted by wobumingbai at 10:11 PM on April 7, 2017

Friday GA-06 update:

Day 10 of in-person ev in GA-6 is D 43, R 38, highest turnout day yet across board. Over all, D 51 R 32 with 17871 votes counted.

A few shifts are coming up: 1) New sites in Dekalb/Cobb. Until now, most sites/voting has been in Fulton. Should boost totals

2) There is Saturday voting tmro, including new Dekalb/Cobb sites. That's generally a good day for Dems, but who knows in a special

3) We're at the point where the remaining reliable voters are so GOP that it would be tough for them not to overtake Ds, at least in Fulton

But keep in mind that a GOP electorate, by primary vote, doesn't actually mean a bad electorate for Dems. Trump won by 2 in R+20

posted by Chrysostom at 10:22 PM on April 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

I agree completely. I do think Castro would have a better chance.Being from the region, I like Beto too, but historically, since the revolution, it's been a very up hill battle for anyone from the El Paso/Chihuahua/Las Cruces region to gain power in their respective states, so I am not optimistic. Who knows, Susanna Martinez unfortunately pulled it off in New Mexico, so maybe our time has come again.
posted by wobumingbai at 10:46 PM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

the one thing guaranteed to lose US support

Except that Assad has used chemical and other illegal weapons against his civilian population on multiple occasions since 2013 and the US has not intervened against him. Congress and the UK Parliament both refused to authorise any intervention by Britain and the Obama administration, in the face of his use of chemical weapons, back in 2013. So I'm not sure why he would necessarily believe that this time would be the time that inflicted real costs on him.

Also, what costs? US policy hasn't changed; the strategic stalemate in Syria hasn't changed; his chances of taking back the country haven't seriously changed. There is a decent analysis of why this attack might have been useful to him in the Guardian today. If the latest attack fulfils his broader objective of terrorising the civilian population into submission and so ending the civil war earlier, I don't think a single attack by the US on a single airbase changes the calculus in any important way. The other argument significantly overestimates the importance of the US to Assad's calculations in Syria. He doesn't need positive "support" from them - he has that from Russia - but only for them to continue attacking ISIS and abstaining from any serious attack on his own forces. He still has what he needs.

In addition, even the Russians and Assad are not arguing that the sarin attack was deliberately launched on this particular civilian population by one of the rebel groups. They're saying it happened by mistake, as a result of an airstrike, because rebel groups were storing sarin in a warehouse that coincidentally got hit by an Assad airstrike. That doesn't strike me as particularly plausible, given Assad's well-documented track record of attacks against civilians and given the unlikely chain of events that he wants us to accept as the alternative. So I'm going to continue to think that Gabbard's keen support for Assad is rather disreputable and unpleasant and that her word on what he is or isn't responsible for is pretty suspect, especially when weighed against the other evidence. I wouldn't call that gaslighting myself, just an analysis of the probabilities based on the publicly available facts.
posted by Aravis76 at 12:09 AM on April 8, 2017 [14 favorites]

The precedent isn't enough evidence in my opinion to warrant an illegal military strike that will advantage Al Qaeda and ISIS. There is conclusive evidence that Assad has used chlorine gas but not nerve gas. The stockpiles of nerve gas were supposedly handed over to weapons inspectors under US-Russian supervision but now we're being told that the WMD were being hidden from inspectors, just like Saddam was doing back in 03. There is evidence that the rebel groups possess nerve gas. I'm not sure why it's impossible that these could have been released in an air strike. I'm not saying that this is definitely what happened, I am just not persuaded that the official version is necessarily more plausible without more evidence. I don't entirely buy the idea that Assad would have predicted that the consequences of using nerve gas at this point would be anything other than what they have been, with military and diplomatic costs obviously exceeding the benefits by an enormous margin. Maybe I'm being unduly skeptical but it was in fact an official conspiracy of WMD lies that started this whole mess fifteen years ago and once bitten twice shy.
posted by moorooka at 1:06 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

(In one of the earliest election threads, back when we all could actually experience that now-dead emotion called "hope", a fellow mefite made a comment about how Trump made Courtney Love seem coherent, and I left a snarky reply, as befits a member of the Hole fan club, defending her.

Jesus Christ what I wouldn't give to have Courtney Love as president right now.)
posted by maxwelton at 1:49 AM on April 8, 2017 [13 favorites]

I might add that what is being called Gabbard's "keen support" for Assad looks to me more like a clear opposition to Al Qaeda; the only strange thing about it being that it is so uncommon coming from a US politician. I'm old enough to remember when Al Qaeda was America's mortal enemy. This whole thing is straight out of Orwell.
posted by moorooka at 2:07 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

There are 5 million Syrian refugees that have fled to other countries because of Assad's murderous regime. Syria has had a batch of chemical weapons destroyed by agreement in 2013. The UN has found that sarin was used in previous attacks against civiilans. It's complete bullshit to try to obfuscate the Assad regime's probable involvement in this attack.

I'm not saying that what Trump did was right, effective, or moral but let's not lie to ourselves about what likely happened.
posted by rdr at 2:08 AM on April 8, 2017 [19 favorites]

Jesus Christ what I wouldn't give to have Courtney Love as president right now.)

go on, take everything ...
posted by pyramid termite at 2:12 AM on April 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

There are 5 million Syrian refugees because of a civil war with murderers on all sides. Do you think an ISIS regime would be some sort of improvement over Assad? Like it or not, that is who gains when the Syrian army is attacked. Yes the regime had chemical weapons destroyed by agreement in 2013. Except, oh, looks like they weren't destroyed after all. The UN found that sarin was used in previous attacks against civilians but didn't have sufficient evidence to assign culpability. What we are being told is that Assad is a pointlessly evil, non-rational actor, and because it's just so obvious that he did this we don't even need proof, and that this leaves us with no choice except to give air support to Al Qaeda and risk a direct conflict with Russia. And asking any questions about it is "bullshit".
posted by moorooka at 2:30 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

I did not say that Trump's attack was justified or would be effective. I don't think ISIS would be better for the people of Syria than Assad. I don't know the mechanics of how this plays out. Assad isn't pointlessly evil. He's willing to slaughter his own people to hold on to power and so far that has worked for him. What I said was that we shouldn't try to obfuscate the likely perpertrator of an attack involving chemical weapons.
posted by rdr at 3:11 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Asking for proof is not obfuscation. Assad may be the likely perpetrator, but only if he is a complete idiot on top of being evil. Conventional weapons are more than adequate for slaughtering people while keeping both world superpowers on-side. If this attack is going to be used as a causus belli then I see no merit in being so casual about the need for proper evidence. Again, we have been over this road before, and indeed that's how we got to this point in the first place.
posted by moorooka at 3:22 AM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

When I say Gabbard supports Assad, I don't just mean her recent comments. I mean her trip to Syria to meet him, and her repeated claims legitimising his government and insisting on his popular support and downplaying all the deaths of civilians he has specifically targeted with phosphorous and barrel bombs and starvation sieges. I'm in no way in favour of US military intervention in Syria against Assad - the situation is too complicated and US intervention will make it worse, not better - but we can reject the case for such intervention without whitewashing war crimes against a civilian population.
posted by Aravis76 at 3:44 AM on April 8, 2017 [34 favorites]

And no one is saying Assad is pointlessly evil and irrational. His attacks on the civilian population of Syria serve his interests, especially as he can rationally trust to his international allies to defend him from any consequences. I do think his actions are evil, as well as illegal, but they're not irrational.
posted by Aravis76 at 3:46 AM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yeah, criticizing Gabbard's position on Syria does not mean supporting the current US military action or future military action in Syria. It's weird to keep making that equivalence.
posted by bardophile at 3:51 AM on April 8, 2017 [44 favorites]

In what will come as a shock to everyone, I'm sure, it would seem that Trump owns stock in Raytheon. The link is to a Palmer Report piece, but includes a link to the info from Trump's financial disclosure documents.
posted by bardophile at 4:04 AM on April 8, 2017 [24 favorites]

Conventional weapons are more than adequate for slaughtering people while keeping both world superpowers on-side.

While it may not be 100% that Assad did it, acting like there's no sane reason to use chemical weapons over conventional seems intentionally obtuse. If your goal is to not only slaughter but to terrorize, chemical weapons are a rational choice. Whether by human nature or lived experience, chemical and biological weapons occupy a special and horrific place in the human psyche. After years of war, people may be inured to shelling but a killer in the air that you don't understand and can't stop will still cause panic. And Assad has consistently tried to make life a living hell for those who oppose him, or even those living in areas where others oppose.

As to keeping the superpowers on the sideline and the timing, there have been multiple chemical attacks this year that didn't generate a response and just days before Tillerson had basically conceded leaving Assad in power. Why think you can't get away with it again when you have many times.
posted by chris24 at 4:08 AM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

Attacking the civilian population may be rational, but attacking them with nerve gas certainly isn't, especially at this juncture.

And I just don't see why Gabbard deserves such condemnation for opposing Syrian regime change; opposing regime change inherently involves recognizing that the Assad regime is legitimate, or at least more legitimate than the Salafist terrorists and their Saudi backers who the rest of congress are supporting. The humanitarian outrage is utterly selective and totally hypocritical. Assad and ISIS cannot both lose this war, Gabbard deserves some credit for pointing out the obvious.
posted by moorooka at 4:08 AM on April 8, 2017

I have no idea what to think, except that it's not at all well of anybody. The quantity of cynicism that seems to be involved here is breathtaking, especially when ranged against the amount of human suffering caused. It's entirely plausible that the whole thing was arranged to take some of the Russia heat off the Trump administration. And even if that betrays breathtaking cynicism on my part, I really don't think that cynicism is unjustified.
posted by Grangousier at 4:13 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Putin is one hell of a chess player...
posted by moorooka at 4:25 AM on April 8, 2017

As to keeping the superpowers on the sideline and the timing, there have been multiple chemical attacks this year that didn't generate a response and just days before Tillerson had basically conceded leaving Assad in power. Why think you can't get away with it again when you have many times.

There have not been multiple nerve gas attacks attributed to the Syrian government. Chlorine is in a different category. The one time that the Syrian regime was seriously accused of a major nerve gas attack it resulted in threats of Western intervention that were only avoided by joining the chemical weapons convention and turning over stockpiles to the Americans and Russians. Now Assad thinks he can use nerve gas without consequences, basically proving to the world that he cheated the previous agreement? He finally gets America's acceptance and this is the first thing he wants to do, thinking that America will go along with it? To my mind it simply strains credulity. I readily admit it's possible, but it's the behavior of some sort of cartoonish super-villain, not somebody seriously trying to win a war and maintain hard-won international support. My instincts tell me that we are - again - being sold a bill of goods. I'm not ruling it out, I just can't rule out alternatives until there's more evidence.
posted by moorooka at 4:52 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Assad and ISIS cannot both lose this war
Yes they can, and should. The Assad regime has killed and hurt vastly more people than the Wahabis of any stripe. They are just as brutal as each other, and an American grievance against al Qaeda should not legitimise his rule.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:06 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

For those who need it because there are no parties who are innocent except the everyday civilians.
Syria's civil war explained from the beginning..
This is more than just about America, though America is definitely part of the problem.
posted by adamvasco at 5:10 AM on April 8, 2017 [8 favorites]

There have not been multiple nerve gas attacks attributed to the Syrian government. Chlorine is in a different category.

I frankly don't care whether Assad used nerve gas, chlorine, or bullets. He's a nasty bugger who is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. That doesn't mean I endorse Trump's military adventurism, but I have literally zero patience with any defense of Assad that relies on "well, he didn't do this horrible thing in precisely the way people claim".
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:17 AM on April 8, 2017 [19 favorites]

interesting timing, Bill O'Reilly's latest book is debuting this week. According to the New York Times, "the book, “Old School,” is billed as a defense of traditional values, and includes advice on how men should treat women respectfully, not as sex objects." Good advice, Bill!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:37 AM on April 8, 2017 [15 favorites]

Does Assad believe in the full economic, social, and political equality of women? No. So he should not be running a country.

Does ISIS believe in the full economic, social, and political equality of women? No. So they should not be running a country.

Does Putin believe in the full economic, social, and political equality of women? No. So he should not be running a country.

Does Trump believe in the full economic, social, and political equality of women? No. So he should not be running a country.

Does military action by any of these people promote the full economic, social, and political equality of women? No.

Everyone involved in this mess is a piece of shit and has no interest in the wellbeing of the people in their respective regions.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:39 AM on April 8, 2017 [85 favorites]

a country of 300 million people can't police the whole world - it's damn well time we figured that out
posted by pyramid termite at 5:56 AM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted. If you're lashing out at people discussing, time to give the thread a rest.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:06 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Only the Russians and Assad characterise the entirety of the forces against them as Al-Qaeda terrorists. There are more than two sides in this conflict including "secular" (i.e. not Islamist nujobs backed by Salafists) Syrians who have been struggling to get out from under Assad for years.
posted by PenDevil at 6:07 AM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

He finally gets America's acceptance and this is the first thing he wants to do, thinking that America will go along with it? To my mind it simply strains credulity. I readily admit it's possible, but it's the behavior of some sort of cartoonish super-villain, not somebody seriously trying to win a war and maintain hard-won international support.

While I really get what you are saying in your comments, this is IMO misunderstood. What has happened is not that Syria/Assad now finally gets America's acceptance, but that Syria/Assad gets that America now is without leadership or even a moral compass, and that Russia owns the situation. Thus, they can do whatever they want, and what they want is to scare and torture the civilian population of Syria into submission, so none of the rebel groups have any backing. The rational thinking is #1: that no rebels can survive without civilian backing, and #2 when the rebels are put down, the international community will accept the facts on the ground and thus Assad's leadership. This is highly rational and even plausible.

> Assad and ISIS cannot both lose this war
Yes they can, and should. The Assad regime has killed and hurt vastly more people than the Wahabis of any stripe. They are just as brutal as each other, and an American grievance against al Qaeda should not legitimise his rule.

One thing is what is morally right, another what is realistic. And apart from in Kurdistan, there is no democratic alternative to Assad or ISIS at this point. Maybe there never was, I don't know.
I've visited Syria, and it was a lot like East Germany, or Cuba and probably North Korea. A country and a culture where the dictatorship is all-pervasive. And when this goes on for generations, it shapes the minds of the people, so even the people who want change and democracy have authoritarian mindsets.

Ages ago, I heard a lecture given by the then leader of the Kosova Albanians Ibrahim Rugova. He explained how they had built an entire alternative underground society, with schools, clinics, police and even a "university". When I heard the lecture, some time in the -90's, I found him charismatic and idealistic, but I didn't believe the Albanians stood a chance, for many reasons. Neither did anyone else in the auditorium. Later, I learnt that the Kurds in Iraq and Syria have followed a similar strategy (and so have Hizbollah in Lebanon btw).

If the (non-Kurdish) Syrian opposition are attempting anything similar to the Albanians or the Kurds, they are failing epically, probably because they have no common goal. There is no viable alternative to the current regime in Syria right now, and it is tragic and horrible, but even some Syrian refugees I have heard are saying that the only possible solution right now is removing Assad and some of his closest men for cosmetic reasons, but letting the rest of the regime stay on. And then work for a Vietnam-style gradual change.
Maybe if Russia and the US could agree on this and get Iran and the Saudis off the floor for a while, that would be a diplomatic solution. I get the impression that this is impossible for any US government because they somehow are wedded to the Saudis and listen a lot to them and the Israelis for guidance on ME policy.

Trump's missile strike makes no difference either way. I firmly believe this was a token given by Russia because everyone can see the ground is burning under the entire Trump administration these days and they need a fiery distraction. And lo behold! It is working!
posted by mumimor at 6:09 AM on April 8, 2017 [25 favorites]

Meanwhile, back in the needlessly petty and racist at home: Trump-supporting Air BNB Host Cancels Asian American Guest's Reservation. "One word says it all: Asian," the host said in a heated text exchange with the guest, and added comments like, "It's why we have Trump" and "I will not allow this country to be told what to do by foreigners."

(On that last bit: OH THE IRONY. I guess we are closely approaching the time when we're all Russia, too....)
posted by TwoStride at 6:19 AM on April 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

"One word says it all: Asian," the host said in a heated text exchange with the guest, and added comments like, "It's why we have Trump" and "I will not allow this country to be told what to do by foreigners."

The poor guy must have terrible economic anxiety
posted by thelonius at 6:31 AM on April 8, 2017 [30 favorites]

The poor guy

"That poor guy" is named Tami. Not all the horrible Trump people are men, unfortunately.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:33 AM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

During my adult life, there has never been a US military intervention that made things better, and I tend to doubt the ones that happened when I was a kid were any better.

I think we all get suckered into thinking about the wrong question on these topics - "could some ideal military intervention by a disinterested party with good values and willingness to put in a lot of money improve things in [region]?" And you look, and sometimes you think "yes, if Steve Rogers were in charge and the entire United States were a 401c3 run by hippies, there still wouldn't be a great outcome but it would be better".

But this is not what will happen and it is never what will happen. What will happen is that our poorly overseen military will commit atrocities, some of which will come to our attention but many of which will be covered up. Our government's cronies, whether rich democrats or rich republicans, will make a bunch of money and will call the shots, making decisions that are not in the interest of the people. The "interest of the people" will be misrepresented to the US to make whatever we do appear like a good idea domestically. Even more people will be displaced, even more infrastructure will be destroyed. Things will be worse.

We live in an unequal and undemocratic country. We are indeed the "policeman" of the world, a policeman like the guy who shot Philando Castile - poorly trained, panicky, self-righteous, unaccountable.

"Could someone fix this? Does it need to be fixed?" isn't at all the same as "given the history of American military intervention, should the United Statesintervene?"
posted by Frowner at 6:38 AM on April 8, 2017 [54 favorites]

"One word says it all: Asian,"

Funniest thing. Via Air B&B and Text, Tami had no idea that the renter was as far from "foreigner" as this New York Jew.

Of course, at the office, I've had conversations like, "Anjali Kapur ( a customer support tech ) , where's she from?"

To which I answer, "Rego Park, Queens, why?"
posted by mikelieman at 6:43 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

During my adult life, there has never been a US military intervention that made things better

Being born in 1967, I can omit the 'adult' qualifier, and am adopting, "During my entire life, there has never been a US military intervention that made things better" as my mic-drop counter-argument for the forseeeable future.
posted by mikelieman at 6:47 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Funniest thing. Via Air B&B and Text, Tami had no idea that the renter was as far from "foreigner" as this New York Jew.

That's not funny. That's the logic of racism against Asian-Americans. They're perceived of as perpetual foreigners, regardless of whether they're US citizens and no matter how long their families have been in the US.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:48 AM on April 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

* WARNING: READING THIS OP-ED COULD LEAD TO MONITOR DAMAGE *
Mitch McConnell, WaPo: Democrats reap what they have sown

For an antidote:

Dana Milbank, WaPo: Mitch McConnell, the man who broke America
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:53 AM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

Mod note: Several deleted from The Great Cheese Puff Derail upthread. Individually, it's all fine, and we totally understand the impulse, but in practice, over two dozen jokes about the the cheese puffs is annoying for people to wade through after the fact.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:03 AM on April 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

For once, I'm finding reading comments somewhat soothing, as in the first comment on McConnell's op-ed: Get stuffed, Mitch. You're going down in history as the most worthless partisan hack that ever oozed out from under a rock. Now why don't you do the world a favor and ooze back where you came from
posted by TwoStride at 7:05 AM on April 8, 2017 [18 favorites]

Guess what's happening today. Another trip to the golf course.

This marks the 10th weekend in a row (out of 12 total) that he's visited a Trump property.
posted by zachlipton at 7:07 AM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

I guess the Milbank piece isn't such an antidote. "McConnell," like "Quisling," should be synonymous with treason. His grave will need a drainage system.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:09 AM on April 8, 2017 [7 favorites]

Margaret Sullivan: The media loved Trump’s show of military might. Are we really doing this again?

Missile strikes may seem thrilling, and retaliation righteous.

But journalists and commentators ought to remember the duller virtues, too, like skepticism, depth and context.

And keep their eyes fixed firmly there, not on the spectacular images in the sky.

posted by zachlipton at 7:12 AM on April 8, 2017 [24 favorites]

If I were king of the world, every reference to Gorsuch would require the use of "smarmy."

Guardian: God, guns, and abortion: [Smarmy] Neil Gorsuch to quickly make his [smarmy] mark on high court
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:44 AM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

Note to Pundits: Please Stop Training Our President to Kill
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:48 AM on April 8, 2017 [28 favorites]

Want to do something? You can phinebank for James Thompson (KS-04) here, scripts and failures and everything
posted by The Whelk at 7:48 AM on April 8, 2017 [17 favorites]

Guardian: God, guns, and abortion: [Smarmy] Neil Gorsuch to quickly make his [smarmy] mark on high court

Just reading that article makes me feel physically ill. I am not sure how we're going to survive the actual decisions.
posted by bardophile at 7:49 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

So basically Russia can tell any lie they want right now and 45% of America (including people in both the left and the right) will believe it. That is a pretty awesome power to have, better than any fighter jet. If there's an attack on the US, and Russia blames Californian separatists, will that start the civil war.

I can't believe this obvious BS about "the rebels did it" is getting traction even in MeFi (I see it's not a lot of traction, but still.) Why would Assad do it? Why wouldn't he? It cost him nothing, terrorized his opponents, and helped Putin and Trump out politically. Win win win, right?

Ugh.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:50 AM on April 8, 2017 [23 favorites]

#FireKushner is now trending nationally on Twitter thanks to alt-right folks who think Kushner is preventing the fulfillment of their wildest dreams.

Perfect opportunity to add to your Mute/Block lists on Twitter
posted by zakur at 8:01 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Guess what's happening today. Another trip to the golf course.

This marks the 10th weekend in a row (out of 12 total) that he's visited a Trump property.
posted by zachlipton

It's more like he's visiting the White House between trips home.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:14 AM on April 8, 2017 [28 favorites]

‘Horrible’ pictures of suffering moved Trump to action on Syria...

When President Trump began receiving his intelligence briefings in January, his team made a request: The president, they said, was a visual and auditory learner. Would the briefers please cut down on the number of words in the daily briefing book and instead use more graphics and pictures?

Well of course. When people were saying, "Trump doesn't care about people/babies" yesterday, I was like, no, he cares about pictures of babies, at least for five minutes after seeing them. It's what we've witnessed all along; he sees an image or hears a thing on TV and immediately reacts irrationally, whether by using Twitter or Tomahawk missiles.

Let's just hope he doesn't see a Sarah McLachlan puppy mill spot and nuke Missouri.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:15 AM on April 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

I don't think he cares about those pictures or any pictures. I think he, or whoever decides, decided that now was the time for some dog-wagging. And it was, and it worked.
posted by mumimor at 8:18 AM on April 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's more like he's visiting the White House between trips home.

He commutes to and from DC.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:18 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I was like, no, he cares about pictures of babies, at least for five minutes after seeing them

I genuinely do not believe any of the talk going around about how Trump was genuinely moved. I think he saw the attack on television, remembered how Obama failed to act decisively and how that's played out in the media, and saw this as an opportunity to get a few positive news cycles. You have to interpret him at the most cynical level possible; cynical without the benefit of being able to calculate the long game very well.
posted by dis_integration at 8:20 AM on April 8, 2017 [13 favorites]

The idea that he can remember that far back and draw analogies to the current situation is giving him too much credit.
posted by winna at 8:23 AM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

Someone can remember that image of the Obama top watching the Bin Laden raid, that is obvious
posted by mumimor at 8:28 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

fun "business" article on Bannon:

Far from the evil genius invoked in various breathless magazine profiles, Bannon has proven hapless and flat-footed.
posted by sammyo at 8:42 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

War profiteering. The true face of America.
Trump has shares in Raytheon.
posted by adamvasco at 8:42 AM on April 8, 2017 [9 favorites]

Far from the evil genius invoked in various breathless magazine profiles, Bannon has proven hapless and flat-footed.

My nominee for official Bannon nickname comes from that previously linked savage Deadspin AHCA postmortem:

Wet Bag Of Cigarette Butts That Thinks It’s Judge Holden

posted by FelliniBlank at 9:00 AM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

Um, everyone that's got a hook in their mouths. Back up carefully and return to the battle of the core issues of collusion, profiteering and corruption of this fucked-up group currently in the White House. The distraction of the attack on Syria, aside from the obscenity and dangerous insanity that it is, justified or not, is just that. A distraction.

Hammer at the core.
posted by michswiss at 9:08 AM on April 8, 2017 [25 favorites]

> Um, everyone that's got a hook in their mouths. Back up carefully and return to the battle of the core issues of collusion, profiteering and corruption of this fucked-up group currently in the White House.

yes very much this.

Don't listen to the news. Listen to people at your Indivisible meetings, or your DSA meetings, or your SURJ meetings, or whatever. Hell, listen to people at your SA or ISO meetings if you have to; they're zany, but they're way better than the news.

Mass media is psyops now, has been for a long time. Same goes for social media. Meet in person, organize in person, ignore the noise machines.

And especially ignore me. Don't ignore that last comment from michswiss, though, cause it's good advice.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:17 AM on April 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

Syria still exists tho. And will still exist, God willing, if and when the current president is out of power. And if our various other elected officials develop a position on it, that matters.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:19 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm So Shocked that They Love War in the Mainstream Media Mancave

You let a woman like Margaret Sullivan into the media boys' mancave, and of course she's going to harsh their buzz by writing something like this: [...]

[Sullivan] doesn't point out that all of these fawners are male, but I will. (The Times story Sullivan cites was written by Mark Landler.) I'm not saying that media women never dote on a president at war -- think back to Fox News during the Bush years -- but if someone in the press whose job it is to be neutral or skeptical suddenly turns into a cheerleader when bombs are dropping, that figure is almost certainly going to be a man. (See Chris Matthews on "Mission Accomplished" day.) [...]

The press needs more women, as well as more men whose loins aren't reliably stirred by any American war. For now, we have this instead.

posted by tonycpsu at 9:22 AM on April 8, 2017 [43 favorites]

> Everyone involved in this mess is a piece of shit and has no interest in the wellbeing of the people in their respective regions.

I mean, except for the Kurdish anarchists. They're maybe the best people in the world. It's just, they're also doomed.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:22 AM on April 8, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'm pretty sure MeFites haven't, like, forgotten about collusion and are probably capable of thinking and caring about multiple things at once. The fact that Trump is using Syria as a distraction doesn't make the consequences of that trivial.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:22 AM on April 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

Well, also, it would appear that Syria is part of the collusion and profiteering.
posted by bardophile at 9:32 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

I genuinely do not believe any of the talk going around about how Trump was genuinely moved. I think he saw the attack on television, remembered how Obama failed to act decisively and how that's played out in the media, and saw this as an opportunity to get a few positive news cycles.

Which just means his rationality and his emotionality are equally shallow, childish, capricious, and ephemeral.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:36 AM on April 8, 2017

Running the government like a business yo: Trump budget to cut rail services to hundreds of rural communities

The analysis from the National Association of Rail Passengers (NARP) concluded that cuts to the infrastructure budget, would cut off Amtrak, transit, and commuter rail programs, and even air service to some rural towns.

As a result it estimated that 220 cities in 23 states will have no passenger rail transport as a result.

I don't think people realize to what a ridiculous extent Amtrak rural routes are subsidized by NEC and Acela, the only two routes that are both unsubsidized and generate a profit. If Amtrak ditched everything but its North Eastern Regional and Acela lines it would make money hand over fist. Those two lines generate half a billion a year in profits for Amtrak. That profit is reinvested into every other unprofitable passenger line in America.
posted by Talez at 9:38 AM on April 8, 2017 [26 favorites]

What will happen is that our poorly overseen military will commit atrocities, some of which will come to our attention but many of which will be covered up

I know this is kind of an easy thing to say, but I feel like it's necessary to push back on. The idea that the US military creates bad situations because it's poorly overseen, or its people are some nebulous Other who delight in war, is a mental defense against what, precisely, war is. It's the same thing that's had me feeling almost physically ill with some of the "yay, civil war!" commentary upthread - that it's literally impossible to hold a war where no one innocent is harmed. Any time you are considering going to war, you need to look at war with clear eyes and understand it is massively, immensely destructive. Even if you're the good guys. Even if you have noble intent and everyone under you is a saint. You cannot avoid horrors.

Even the people we all tend to think of as The Good Guys, in The Good War - the Spanish fighters against Franco - committed monstrosities. I know I keep recommending this, but if I could get everyone in America to read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, I would - it is such a perfect memoir of someone who came with ideals and hope and was disillusioned by how fractious and terrible even the best people can be, how they get afraid and do awful things.

This isn't a good war. There are vanishingly few good wars, and horrible things happen in even the best of them. But we would be better served to let volunteers flood the ranks of the opposition than to bring the full force of US might against a country that's already deeply broken.
posted by corb at 9:38 AM on April 8, 2017 [46 favorites]

I'm pretty sure MeFites haven't, like, forgotten about collusion and are probably capable of thinking and caring about multiple things at once. The fact that Trump is using Syria as a distraction doesn't make the consequences of that trivial.

Didn't mean to imply we can't multitask.
posted by michswiss at 9:47 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

> I know I keep recommending this, but if I could get everyone in America to read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, I would - it is such a perfect memoir of someone who came with ideals and hope and was disillusioned by how fractious and terrible even the best people can be, how they get afraid and do awful things.

Though tbf Orwell doesn't have all that much bad to say about POUM, other than that they were feckless, and he pretty much straight up admired the CNT, once he had been there long enough to figure out the differences between the different factions. The bulk of his distaste was reserved for the Communists on the right wing of the anti-fascist forces, and he talks at length about how, because of the USSR's desire to maintain diplomatic relations with the liberal governments of a western Europe they ended up undermining all the revolutionary momentum in Spain. IIRC, in the appendix (where he stops talking about his lived experience and starts talking about political abstractions) Orwell lays the blame for the ultimate victory of the fascists entirely on the USSR's antirevolutionary policy; the people of Spain were willing to fight and die for the revolution, but not for just putting the liberal bourgeoisie back in power.

tl;dr: Orwell's disillusionment wasn't about fractiousness. It was about Stalinists.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:06 AM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

(and also he was pretty clear about how most of the factional infighting happened back in Barcelona. While he was there, at least, everyone at the front were solid comrades, even the Stalinists)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:17 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does Trump ever eat anything except steak and 50's style salad?

General Trump's Chicken
posted by y2karl at 10:19 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

I agree with most of what you're saying, corb, but I feel like your push-back does need its own push-back, given that here in the twenty-first century we got a we don't do body counts initially; atrocities in general are a corollary of war, but whether it's the result of institutional attitudes or an inevitable consequence of the orders they were following, the U.S. military has helped to lead the way in a skyrocketing proportion of civilian casualties over combatant casualties in "legal" wars during the last hundred years.

In the Syria conflict the fact that the cover of "well at least we don't directly drop cluster bombs on dense civilian populations like the Russians do" is available does not bode well for how scrupulous the U.S. military will be with the risks it takes.
posted by XMLicious at 10:21 AM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does Trump ever eat anything except steak and 50's style salad?

Happy #CincoDeMayo! The best taco bowls are made in Trump Tower Grill. I love Hispanics!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:23 AM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Does Trump ever eat anything except steak and 50's style salad?

No clue, but I can tell you exactly what he deserves to eat.
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:33 AM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

and in the 9th circle, i saw that man
called the donald; and his doom was to dine
upon flaming hot cheetos, but his plan

to eat, and then drink did not work out fine
for once he ate and reached for the full glass
it would recede from him; his childish whine

to no avail, as flames went to his ass.
posted by pyramid termite at 10:47 AM on April 8, 2017 [14 favorites]

You know how on Kitchen Nightmares they would show some failing restaurant with moldy old interiors and outdated decorations that hadn't been changed since they opened in 1952, but the owner refuses to accept there's a problem and likes it that way despite the business losing more and more customers each day? Reading about Trump's dietary practices makes a lot more sense to me after watching enough of those.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:53 AM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

9th circle

Trump would be with either the false counsellors, or the panderers and seducers.
posted by thelonius at 10:54 AM on April 8, 2017

Oh wait, maybe the sowers of discord.
posted by thelonius at 10:55 AM on April 8, 2017

with his ego, he'd want to false counsel the BIG MAN himself
posted by pyramid termite at 10:55 AM on April 8, 2017

All Trump kitchens can be presumed to be that kind of kitchen, yes.
posted by Artw at 11:03 AM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Please, please someone on the television push back against this horrid "Killing people is what makes you the President" bullshit. It's so problematic I have difficulty finding the words. Surely someone must have pushed back on the air?
posted by Justinian at 11:19 AM on April 8, 2017 [27 favorites]

You know how on Kitchen Nightmares they would show some failing restaurant with moldy old interiors and outdated decorations that hadn't been changed since they opened in 1952, but the owner refuses to accept there's a problem and likes it that way despite the business losing more and more customers each day? Reading about Trump's dietary practices makes a lot more sense to me after watching enough of those.

More than his diet, that's like his entire presidency
posted by jason_steakums at 11:24 AM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

There's a great interview with the chef at a trump vancouver restaurant where the chef refuses to answer questions about the authenticity of their so-called farm to plate restaurant. Wish I could find it now.
posted by Yowser at 11:44 AM on April 8, 2017

Bingo re: Mott 32 at trump vancouver
posted by Yowser at 11:47 AM on April 8, 2017 [8 favorites]

Please, please someone on the television push back against this horrid "Killing people is what makes you the President" bullshit. It's so problematic I have difficulty finding the words. Surely someone must have pushed back on the air?

Rev. William Barber did today on AM Joy. That's something, I guess.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:52 AM on April 8, 2017 [18 favorites]

Someone's a little defensive that jets are flying right away again from al-Shayrat.

@realDonaldTrump
The reason you don't generally hit runways is that they are easy and inexpensive to quickly fix (fill in and top)!
posted by chris24 at 12:58 PM on April 8, 2017 [22 favorites]

WaPo: MSNBC host’s conspiracy theory: What if Putin planned the Syrian chemical attack to help Trump?

“Wouldn't it be nice,” O'Donnell asked a nodding, smiling Rachel Maddow, “if it was just completely, totally, absolutely impossible to suspect that Vladimir Putin orchestrated what happened in Syria this week — so that his friend in the White House could have a big night with missiles and all the praises he's picked up over the past 24 hours?”
...
O'Donnell didn't offer any evidence on his theory, promising only that “you won't hear ... proof that the scenario I've just outlined is impossible."

What O'Donnell did hear, if he followed the reaction to his show, was derision from across the political spectrum.

I mean, Putin and Assad are allies. Russia nominally had all of Assad's chemical weapons, so it seems likely he either got them back from Russia, or Russia allowed him to keep some in the first place. Russia may have helped cover up the attack.

So while I think there is no doubt Assad carried out the chemical attack for his own reasons, the idea that the Russians knew about it and went along with it for THEIR own reasons is hardly far fetched.

And there isn't much question about what really happened with our reaction either. We struck the base, warning Russia ahead of time, and did minimal damage. The only "conspiracy theories" are about whether Putin is actually as mad as he pretends to be... Is it really so crazy to think Putin might be lying?posted by OnceUponATime at 1:01 PM on April 8, 2017 [13 favorites]

The reason you don't generally hit runways is that they are easy and inexpensive to quickly fix (fill in and top)!

You know, I earlier posted that if you don't crater the runway you haven't actually accomplished anything. But Trump is... oh my god... kind of correct here. You do want to crater the runway to put an airfield out of action, but that's only really important in a sustained engagement where you are going to keep attacking! In a one-shot deal you don't care if the runway is put out of action temporarily because they can repair it fairly cheaply.

I feel shame. Trump was more right than I was here.
posted by Justinian at 1:15 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

And now the Russians seem to be dropping napalm on Idlib.
posted by localhuman at 1:27 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's probably white phosphorus rather than napalm but that distinction is meaningless if you're the one burning alive.
posted by Justinian at 1:30 PM on April 8, 2017 [16 favorites]

Spox: Group Founded By Nazi Ally 'Proud' To See WH Adviser Wearing Its Medal

-- The spokesperson for a Hungarian ultranationalist group, whose founder oversaw the murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews during World War II, said he was "proud" to see White House counterterrorism adviser Sebastian Gorka wear the group's medal, as he did at an inaugural ball on Jan. 20.

-- The Forward also reported, on April 3, that Gorka and the political party he led at the time, New Democratic Coalition, had in 2007 supported another far right party's effort to form a ultranationalist militia that was later banned for violating the rights of minorities. Two members of the militia were found guilty in a number of racist murders of Roma people in 2008 and 2009.

Gorka has also recently faced questions about his service in the British Army, after a Jezebel investigation found multiple wildly differing characterizations of his time in what was then called Unit 22 of the Territorial Army.

The full NBC report is worth reading.

Sebastian Gorka Made Nazi-Linked Vitezi Rend ‘Proud’ by Wearing Its Medal

The Gorkas' controversial past does not end with the father and son.

In the 1980s, Sebastian Gorka's mother, Susan Gorka, worked as a translator for David Irving, the discredited British historian who caused outrage by suggesting the Holocaust did not happen, or was at least greatly exaggerated.

A British judge ruled in 2000 that Irving was a "Holocaust denier … anti-Semitic and racist, and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism." And in 2006, he was sentenced to three years in prison in Austria on charges of denying the Holocaust.

I am glad that this is getting more attention but I am flabbergasted that Gorka isn't already GONE. Name, shame and fire the fucker.
posted by futz at 1:31 PM on April 8, 2017 [27 favorites]

Please, please someone on the television push back against this horrid "Killing people is what makes you the President" bullshit. It's so problematic I have difficulty finding the words. Surely someone must have pushed back on the air?

They Never Learn: The Media LOVES Trump's Military 'Might'. Why?

Five Top Papers Run 18 Opinion Pieces Praising Syria Strikes–Zero Are Critical
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:43 PM on April 8, 2017 [18 favorites]

I've been chewing on this thought for a while now, and I think it's become kind of urgent given the upheaval in the world.

The UN or some other big respected organization really needs to research and put together a best-practices primer for building and rebuilding a country's democractic/bureaucratic institutions. Let's say you're a reformer who has just been elected on a platform of democracy, or you're the newly elected leader of a formerly war-torn country, and your job is to make your country a democracy again. This has happened a bunch of times in recent memory, and unfortunately these heads of state almost always fail to make a real impact in their countries. But it hasn't ALWAYS failed - there are success stories out there. I really wish a game plan existed that examined why the successes succeeded and compared them to the failures to map out the way forward for potential reformers, to improve the success rate.

I am by no means an expert in this stuff, but we already have a pretty good idea of the problems that corrupt states have in common. The bureaucracy at every level functions on bribes rather than process of law. Elected officials are typically concerned with their own enrichment. Elections are rigged, bought via bribes, or a combination of both. Local expertise is lacking. Natural resource wealth is funneled to cronies rather than used for the country's benefit. But in so many of the countries plagued with these kinds of problems, there has been a moment in time where reform was possible, when the people rose up and demanded something better - the Arab Spring comes to mind. But the vast majority of these reform attempts have failed, and I have to think a big part of that is because there is no blueprint for what to do when you're in that position.

Having a series of case-studies that examine failures and successes for (say) reforming the police, and using those to develop a basic blueprint that has the best chance of success, as well as a series of caveats and warnings for those trying to attempt such a change, would have immediate and enormous impact in the world. If we went from even (e.g.) 5% to 25% of reforms succeeding, we would have massive impacts on the lives of millions and perhaps billions of people. And the more successful examples there were, the more we could improve and reform the blueprint to bring even greater rates of success.

As another example, post-war Iraq is an utter mess because we wholly failed to implement any kind of rebuilding plan, and W's administration was clearly not that interested in developing one. But what if a plan was already out there, and it was basically known what had to be done to help a fledgling democratic state stick around? W might well not have at least implemented it on a basic level, and as a result, we might very well not be dealing with ISIS now, and the mess in Syria may well have long been over.

I have a bad feeling that we may well be needing some of this blueprint ourselves post-Trump. We have far stronger institutions than most of these countries, but we also have some real commonalities. Even this early in his presidency, ICE and CBP have gone from begrudgingly obeying the rule of law and orders from above to blatantly and gleefully doing whatever the hell they want. How will we go about rooting out the authoritarians and those who are more interested in punishing people they hate than following rules in these organizations? Given another 3.75 years, I expect these people and attitudes to be well-entrenched by the time Trump leaves office. Parts of our intelligence community may well need the same treatment post-Trump. We already have the NY FBI office openly feuding with the FBI director - what else is there hiding just under the surface that we don't know about?

I wish I had the contacts to put this into the ears of the right people. It's such an obvious thing to me, we KNEW we needed a plan to fix war-torn countries way back in the 40s, why on earth have we allowed ourselves to forget so much?
posted by zug at 1:48 PM on April 8, 2017 [17 favorites]

Please, please someone on the television push back against this horrid "Killing people is what makes you the President" bullshit. It's so problematic I have difficulty finding the words. Surely someone must have pushed back on the air?

It absolutely boggles my mind that this happens. Everybody talks about it constantly - even Trump himself was tweeting in 2013 about how Obama would want military invention in Syria to make himself more popular. Everyone knows this is a thing and then they still fall for it! WTF?
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:54 PM on April 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

Five Top Papers Run 18 Opinion Pieces Praising Syria Strikes–Zero Are Critical

As long as ALL of America doesn't have 'skin in the game' and everyone in the military are volunteers, you're never going to get the grass-roots groundswell of condemnation.

So... Let's push for mandatory conscription and service for 2 years for everyone. No exemptions.

That way, it won't be 'volunteers' taking the risks, and I think people will actually care when Trump gets people killed.
posted by mikelieman at 1:56 PM on April 8, 2017 [14 favorites]

I wish I had the contacts to put this into the ears of the right people. It's such an obvious thing to me, we KNEW we needed a plan to fix war-torn countries way back in the 40s, why on earth have we allowed ourselves to forget so much?

I think you are underestimating the complexity, variety, and depth of the challenges facing nascent democracies and overestimating the degree of understanding we have of what works, and our ability to control a national trajectory.
posted by bardophile at 2:07 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

So... Let's push for mandatory conscription and service for 2 years for everyone. No exemptions.

never - too many will fight that
posted by pyramid termite at 2:14 PM on April 8, 2017

>I'd bet you 100 to 1 that he gets an uptick from this. Americans fucking love to get their war on. They're a bunch of warpigs in war shit. They don't like quagmires that last for years, sure, but they love some shock and awe.

For now, you lose, if we trust Gallup, which reports a two point uptick in his disapproval ratings from April 4 to 7, and down tick of approval. Not that polls are reliable these days, of course, and not that this couldn't change again.

The question is, however, which Americans would these warpigs be? Among the Breitbart readers, strong Trump supporters in large part because he said he would stay out of foreign quagmires, and put America first, there is near universal howling on his 180.

There is, however, much approval among neocons and senior democratic leadership. Funny world.

Well, okay, not that funny, not really.
posted by IndigoJones at 2:26 PM on April 8, 2017 [8 favorites]

Politicians love a good bombing. It makes them feel important.
posted by Justinian at 2:46 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think you are underestimating the complexity, variety, and depth of the challenges facing nascent democracies and overestimating the degree of understanding we have of what works, and our ability to control a national trajectory.

Entirely possible... but the only way to build that knowledge is to do the work of building that knowledge. Nothing as complicated as institutional reform will work in all cases, even with the best knowledge that we have, but ticking the success rate up a few percentage points is a very worthy goal.
posted by zug at 2:57 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Look, the reason people don't routinely use chemical weapons is because there's a string international norm against it -- backed by a perception that you'll make yourself a whole bunch of new enemies if you do that, that it will cost you more than it gains you.

Most politicians support upholding that norm (not necessarily enforced America by itself, preferably by the UN or NATO or some coalition) because they don't want to normalize the use of chemical weapons.

But Trump did not hurt Assad's capabilities enough for a strong deterrent effect, did not seem to follow international or US law, and has no intention of sending humanitarian aid to the victims, accepting refugees, or doing anything to actually bring an end to the war. So any praise about him almost doing a good thing should be pretty damn muted.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:03 PM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

never - too many will fight that

Well, exactly.
posted by petebest at 3:04 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Charles Pierce: What We Saw This Week Was Truly Unprecedented. Mitch McConnell outdid himself.

And, of course, it worked like a charm. It worked like a charm because there was no way for the strategy to fail. If Hillary Rodham Clinton had been elected, the Republican majority in the Senate would have Garlanded any nominee she put up. (I mean, Garland himself came recommended to President Obama by Orrin Hatch, who then spent the past two years saying what a bad idea his nomination was. This debate really sucked a great amount of pondwater.) But the president* squeaked through, so McConnell could finish the act of stealing the seat quickly.

Once McConnell committed himself to an unprecedented act of obstruction that actually was unprecedented, and once the great, indolent American electorate gifted him with a continuing, sheeplike Republican majority, it was an easy slide to what happened on Friday. He knew that the likes of John McCain could be relied upon to give him the mournful cover he needed to destroy the rules of the Senate in order to get Gorsuch confirmed. Any Republican who expresses sorrow at what happened to the filibuster in this process is either lying or terrified of a primary. There wasn't a single defector, either on the vote to change the rules or on the confirmation vote. In fact, the pious murmuring over what "we" had done to the Senate was probably the most gorge-rising element of a fairly nauseating exercise.

Washington Is Void of Any Sense of Restraint: The unilateral decision to strike the Syrian government was just the latest example.

Nevertheless, all day long, in the halls of Congress and all across the airwaves, people were making that very case. Brian Williams was swooning over the pretty pictures of the Tomahawks taking flight. An entire flock of generals turned up all over TV again. Nobody ever learns. When exactly it was that the American political and journalistic elites became such cheap whores for easy blood is going to be an interesting case study for future historians, as is the topic of when exactly making war in some place became the sum total of what it means to be "presidential." But there is little doubt that, if a president wants to get off on the good foot with those elites, and if he wants to paralyze the Congress in its constitutional authority regarding the war powers of the United States, all he has to do is blow the hell out of something somewhere and then explain later.

Make no mistake. What the administration did on Thursday night was completely unconstitutional and (probably) completely illegal. The steady leaching of the war powers from the legislative branch to the executive is one of the worst things that happened in the 20th century, and the agreed-upon fig leaf of the "Authorization To Use Military Force," which is an extra-constitutional device created to speed up that old, clunky, constitutional process of declaring war, is now a threadbare alternative. Hell, the attack on Thursday night was justified under the AUMF that passed in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, which authorized the use of force against al Qaeda and its affiliates. There is no way to stretch that to include the president of Syria's gassing his own people.

...

There has been an alarming disregard for the inherent restraints of constitutional democracy in Washington all week. Once broken, these restraints are damnably hard to rebuild. There is something terribly out of control in the government of the United States, a wildness far too easy for people to exploit for personal power and private gain. It's like standing in the middle of a whirlwind in which echoes Pogo's legendary paraphrase of what Oliver Hazard Perry famously said after the Battle of Lake Erie: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

posted by homunculus at 3:19 PM on April 8, 2017 [44 favorites]

It's too bad Der Spiegel already used the Trump-decapitates-the-Statue-of-Liberty cover illustration; otherwise the end of Congressional war powers, specifically to avenge babies whom the usurping President would wish to prevent from entering the U.S. as refugees, and the end of the Constitutionally-elected Supreme Court in the same week would have been a fitting occasion. But I suspect the feeling that the illustration was used prematurely will be a recurring theme in coming years.
posted by XMLicious at 3:34 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

I frankly don't care whether Assad used nerve gas, chlorine, or bullets. He's a nasty bugger who is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. That doesn't mean I endorse Trump's military adventurism, but I have literally zero patience with any defense of Assad that relies on "well, he didn't do this horrible thing in precisely the way people claim".

Well I've already made myself look like an asshole Assad apologist by nitpicking, but I might as well keep digging. If everyone believed that the gas used in the Idlib attack had been chlorine instead of nerve gas, none of this reaction would have happened, because chlorine is not a banned substance despite its horrible effects, and Syria never claimed to have surrendered its chlorine under the agreement with the OPCW.

For that matter, if had been white phosphorus, this reaction would not have happened. The reason for the US doing a complete 180 on Assad is indeed "this horrible thing in precisely the way people claim"; nerve gas. It's the difference between violating and not violating the US-Russia brokered agreement on surrendering chemical weapons. And if the only evidence that he violated the agreement and used nerve gas in Idlib is that he used it before, then it is indeed relevant whether or not he actually did.
posted by moorooka at 3:36 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

As for stonepharisee who said that Assad and and ISIS can somehow both lose this war, please nominate who you expect to win the war in that event.
posted by moorooka at 3:41 PM on April 8, 2017

U.S. Navy strike group to move towards Korean peninsula: U.S. official

A U.S. Navy strike group will be moving toward the western Pacific Ocean near the Korean peninsula, a U.S. official told Reuters on Saturday.

The moves comes as concerns grow about North Korea's advancing weapons program. Earlier this month North Korea tested a liquid-fueled Scud missile which only traveled a fraction of its range.

The Carl Vinson strike group, which includes an aircraft carrier, will make its way from Singapore toward the Korean peninsula, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity

looks like trump found a taste for war.
posted by futz at 4:01 PM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

My liberal take on Syria is that we should be accepting refugees but otherwise remain uninvolved. There's no good outcome for us in this mess.

My opinion about Gabbard which is based on living in Hawaii and having acquaintances in common and knowing het family's political history is that she's an opportunist and would be happy to be Republican if she could win an election out here with an R next to her name.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:11 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sounds like 99% of congress then
posted by moorooka at 4:25 PM on April 8, 2017

So actually, what happens if North Korea declares that it's threatened by approaching U.S. naval forces and uses a nuke as a tactical weapon against a nearby military-only target in international waters? Could they achieve a new kind of stalemate, or otherwise obtain any benefit for themselves, by doing that or threatening to do that? Maybe even just disrupt international shipping by getting commercial traffic to flee from an area?
posted by XMLicious at 4:27 PM on April 8, 2017

So actually, what happens if North Korea declares that it's threatened by approaching U.S. naval forces and uses a nuke as a tactical weapon against a nearby military-only target in international waters? Could they achieve a new kind of stalemate, or otherwise obtain any benefit for themselves, by doing that or threatening to do that?

Pyongyang would glow. Brightly at first, and in the dark after.
posted by Talez at 4:28 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Talez is correct, North Korea would cease to exist.
posted by Justinian at 4:31 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Pyongyang would glow. Brightly at first, and in the dark after.

Talez is correct, North Korea would cease to exist.

Really, though? Even in the "North Korea is actually crazy, not just pretending" scenario? Is that the optimum move for the U.S., to use its own nukes against a civilian population in response to a putatively defensive strike against military assets?

And are you guys talking about the response to a threat or just an actual attack?
posted by XMLicious at 4:37 PM on April 8, 2017

And are you guys talking about the response to a threat or just an actual attack?

I thought you said there was a tactical nuke involved. An actual attack. That's the only reaction I can think of SCROTUS having. I expect a more reasonable president who doesn't want to start a nuclear war on the Korean peninsula would call up China, give them 48 hours to get Kim Jong Un in their custody and on the way to the United States to solve the situation peacefully. If the deadline is not met the United States will act unilaterally to remove him.
posted by Talez at 4:38 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

You actually quoted the part where I asked if they could obtain an advantage "by doing that or threatening to do that". I understand "the U.S. can present such an overwhelming threat that China will jump to do our bidding" logic, it just seems like we may not be the only ones who can use that sort of leverage.
posted by XMLicious at 4:43 PM on April 8, 2017

Mod note: post-war Iraq is an utter mess because we wholly failed to implement any kind of rebuilding plan, and W's administration was clearly not that interested in developing one.

The State Department developed a fairly comprehensive plan pdf, the Future of Iraq Project, and the Bush Administration blew it off.
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 4:45 PM on April 8, 2017 [21 favorites]

A U.S. Navy strike group will be moving toward the western Pacific Ocean near the Korean peninsula

Reading the South China Morning Post yesterday: By targeting the Middle Eastern nation while hosting Xi Jinping, Trump is signalling he’ll act alone if Beijing doesn’t rein in Pyongyang, analysts say

Washington’s air strikes against the Syrian government while US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping dined in Florida would serve not only as a warning to the unruly North Korean regime, but also pile pressure on Pyongyang’s ally Beijing, [Chinese] diplomatic and military experts say.

posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:46 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

#TimeTravelTrump says hello from 2014: Tens of millions of dollars in airstrikes had no impact because key leaders fled after hearing ON NEWS REPORTS the strikes were coming. DUMB.
posted by scalefree at 4:46 PM on April 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

If everyone believed that the gas used in the Idlib attack had been chlorine instead of nerve gas, none of this reaction would have happened, because chlorine is not a banned substance despite its horrible effects, and Syria never claimed to have surrendered its chlorine under the agreement with the OPCW.

This is incorrect. While industrial chlorine was not included in the OPCW agreement with Syria, use of chlorine as a chemical weapon is prohibited by the Geneva Protocol of 1925, signed by Syria in 1968.
posted by chris24 at 4:47 PM on April 8, 2017 [13 favorites]

This is incorrect. While industrial chlorine was not included in the OPCW agreement with Syria, use of chlorine as a chemical weapon is prohibited by the Geneva Convention of 1925, signed by Syria in 1968.

Its use as a weapon is prohibited, sure. But not simple ownership.
posted by scalefree at 4:50 PM on April 8, 2017

please nominate who you expect to win the war in that event.

In July 2011, defectors from Assad’s regime formed an organized militia called the Free Syrian Army to protect protesters and strike back at Assad. By January 2012, the Syrian uprising had devolved into a full-blown civil war pitting the FSA and other assorted rebel groups against Assad and his supporters.
...
The linchpin of the plan [to fight ISIS in Syria] was a series of American airstrikes, both in Syria and in Iraq, supporting forces on the ground that were fighting ISIS. In Iraq, that meant the official Iraqi army as well as tribal leaders and Shia militias. But it wasn’t clear, initially, who that would be in Syria.

Most rebel groups were preoccupied fighting Assad, and had no ability to really refocus on the Islamic State. The same was true, in reverse, for Assad; he had long maintained a sort of de facto ceasefire with ISIS so he could focus on fighting the moderate rebels whom he saw as a bigger threat.

I would expect both ISIS and Assad would lose if those moderate rebels derived from the FSA were to win.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:51 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I would expect both ISIS and Assad would lose if those moderate rebels derived from the FSA were to win.


Which is why Assad and ISIS had a detente for a while during which they both hit FSA as hard as they could.
posted by ocschwar at 4:52 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

> The UN or some other big respected organization really needs to research and put together a best-practices primer for building and rebuilding a country's democractic/bureaucratic institutions.

Although it is framed more in terms of "how to topple a dictatorship while/by building democratic institutions" instead of "how to build democratic institutions after toppling a dictatorship," Gene Sharp's From Dictatorship to Democracy has elements of what you're looking for. Also it has certain advantages over what you're looking for; mostly, the order of operations implied in it makes more sense.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:56 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Deleted some back-and-forth bickering; moorooka, you've made your points, and you're moving into "take on all comers"; further arguing isn't going to convince anyone not already convinced.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:57 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Isn't it weird that one day a lot of media was like "dumb Trump, his SecState said we'll let Assad stay and Assad felt free to use Sarin", and the next day Trump orders missile strike and half the media is like "that's presidential!". Uh, can't anyone really think couple of days back and consider there's a good chance he had to order a strike promptly due to his own unforced error? If he had spent more time planning it, the narrative of this change of policy leading to Assad's bombing would keep growing.

Is it really presidential to force one's own hand, not to mention some responsibility for casualties from both the bombing and response to it?
posted by rainy at 5:12 PM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

This isn't true and we know it. Why is she saying this?

U.S. strikes destroyed Syrian means to deliver chemical weapons: admiral

-- "We conducted strikes against an air field which was the means by which the chemicals were launched into the air. Those means don't exist now," Howard said in an interview during a missile defense event in Cologne.

-- "The intention was to take out the airfield and to remove the means of the delivery of chemical weapons. I feel that was accomplished," she said.

-- Howard said the integration of the strikes was "flawless" and showed the ability of the U.S. Navy to project power around the world.
posted by futz at 5:20 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

so, basically, we're going to pretend to hurt them and they're going to pretend they're frightened

none of this syrian situation adds up or makes sense which is argument enough to stay out of it
posted by pyramid termite at 5:22 PM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

showed the ability of the U.S. Navy to project power around the world.

Yeah I don't think that's ever really been in doubt by anybody.
posted by rhizome at 5:24 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I can't get over the "It sends a message!" talking point... he has pretty much spent his entire life establishing that messages from Donald Trump are meaningless and worthless, and in the last few months establishing that his messages may be him repeating word-for-word something he just saw on television. So he spent a hundred million dollars or whatever to send a completely worthless message.

And on top of that the subtext for any message he might have sent is "I still have no idea what to do in Syriaaaaaa!"
posted by XMLicious at 5:29 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

This isn't true and we know it. Why is she saying this?

You go to war with the President you have, not the President you might want. The purpose of the US government for the next 4 years is to make Trump look good. Everything flows from that.
posted by scalefree at 5:35 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

New SNL tonight for those who forgot like I did.
posted by futz at 5:51 PM on April 8, 2017

Josh Marshall: Trump family offers steve bannon an opportunity to throw himself under a bus
posted by murphy slaw at 6:00 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

#FLASH RUMINT - Unconfirmed: US Armored column enters Syria from Jordan. 20+ tanks and artillery.

Again: unconfirmed, treat with skepticism.
posted by bluecore at 6:13 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Maybe you guys know: Is Jester Actual the real deal or some 13 year old troll?
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

It sounds like they were responding to an ISIS car bomb at a Jordanian crossing point, sadly not anything unusual for this region.
posted by Justinian at 6:28 PM on April 8, 2017

Maybe you guys know: Is Jester Actual the real deal or some 13 year old troll?

Self-described hacktivist who was listed in Time Magazine's 30 most influential people on the internet. Obviously, influential ≠ accurate on-the-ground intel from Syria.
posted by bluecore at 6:30 PM on April 8, 2017

If I read that Josh Marshall piece correctly it means American politics have a way of grinding Nazis down.
posted by valkane at 6:33 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Which gives me hope.
posted by valkane at 6:34 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hilarious that Steve Bannon is being taken down a peg in a public fashion, and is getting mocked for it.

Depressing that sordid tales of palace intrigue dominates political reporting rather than, say, actual issues.
posted by My Dad at 6:36 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

You know, it would be so easy for the US to be the good guys in all this. The US has vast resources and it has special expertise in delivering humanitarian aid. They have a presence in on Syria's borders and delivering aid and medical treatment would be both easy and relatively cheap. If Israel can do this despite being at war with Syria, the US can certainly do so much more.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:41 PM on April 8, 2017 [14 favorites]

Government spokesman on the news, just now: "The attack was not designed to shut down the base."

Really? You dropped 59 Tomahawk missiles, with a total cost of somewhere between 30 and 60 -million- dollars onto a base to -not- shut it down?

Isn't one of the rules of using those things to at least make it -worth the money expended?-

Can someone here make this make the tiniest amount of sense to me?
posted by Archelaus at 6:45 PM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

Palace intrigue? Isn't it the nazis in the white house that are setting the issues? The sooner brietbart bannon is replaced by pantsbygap kushner the better we all are.
posted by valkane at 6:48 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Russian government viewpoint, from story by lenta.ru:

Lavrov, after phone call with Tillerson: "Attack on a country that battles terrorists only gives a hand to extremists." Lavrov also repeated that Syria did not use chemical weapons.

Maria Zaharova: "US is the most unpredictable state in sphere of foreign policy. The new administration has no foreign-policy concept or direction."

Konstantin Kosachev: "US placed itself outside of anti-terrorist agreements by making two dangerous actions: aggression against a sovereign state and obvous support of terrorism."

Russian government sources seem to be aligning 100% with the most extreme public Assad's statements. It's also interesting that they pinpoint this as a fault of new administration rather than generic US arrogance.
posted by rainy at 6:49 PM on April 8, 2017 [14 favorites]

In other words, there's nothing muted about Russian official reaction. They went with the strongest possible "US is helping ISIS" line. If they're faking displeasure, they're doing a damn fine job.
posted by rainy at 6:56 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is Assad to blame for the chemical weapons attack in Syria?
posted by moorooka at 6:58 PM on April 8, 2017

Well, I guess we're going to start see pee tapes, then.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:58 PM on April 8, 2017

Government spokesman on the news, just now: "The attack was not designed to shut down the base."

"It was designed to change the media story from the healthcare debacle and juice the President's poll numbers" [fake quote, real reason].
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on April 8, 2017 [18 favorites]

Well, I guess we're going to start see pee tapes, then.

I had the same thought :/
posted by futz at 7:04 PM on April 8, 2017

Even assuming that were true, TD Strange, doesn't -admitting- it wasn't to blow up the base kind of defeat that purpose, if you don't state some other purpose?
posted by Archelaus at 7:05 PM on April 8, 2017

We're just all looking for a way to deny that Trump is actually our president. Forgive us for that. Wouldn't you?
posted by valkane at 7:07 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Even assuming that were true, TD Strange, doesn't -admitting- it wasn't to blow up the base kind of defeat that purpose, if you don't state some other purpose?

Well sure, but these people are also fucking morons.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think the problem is that we keep assuming that someone, somewhere is competent in something. The deep state, Putin, whatever... in reality, everyone is winging it, and it takes just one idiot to bring down the whole house of cads.

Edit: that was a typo, but I am going to let it ride.
posted by Behemoth at 7:12 PM on April 8, 2017 [66 favorites]

So uh is this navy-going-to-Korea thing something we should be worried about?

It depends on what kind of mood Trump is in when they get there
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:23 PM on April 8, 2017

The typo confirms your truth, Behemoth. We're all just stumbling along. Simultaneously a source of confidence and also of pure terror.

(I like to say we're all like Bud Korpenning from dos Passos' Manhattan Transfer, "lookin' for the center of things" but finding the soothing something else that Bud couldn't.)
posted by notyou at 7:26 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

I know they talk about how we shouldn't be ostriches sticking our heads in the sand but I deeply have been doing that. I'm so overwhelmed!
posted by yueliang at 7:28 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Well sure, but these people are also fucking morons.

I disagree. Over the past year they've learned that the population and media can be lied to or told the absolute truth and that there will be no consequences, no repercussions. Hands might be wrung and op-ends will be penned, but that's it.

So they aren't morons, they're just taking the lessons to heart.
posted by nubs at 7:29 PM on April 8, 2017

Propaganda or food for thought.?
Something is Not Adding Up In Idlib Chemical Weapons Attack..
I am sure someone with better knowledge than me can give an intelligent opinion.
posted by adamvasco at 7:41 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

If you want to see Russian information warfare at its worst, visit these countries

Americans and Western Europeans have only just begun to wake up to Russia’s use of information as a tool of mischief. But it’s nothing new to the three Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, which regained their independence from the old Soviet Union at the beginning of the 1990s. For the past quarter of a century they’ve been doing their best to respond to the inflow of destabilizing innuendo from their huge neighbor to the east.

Interference with elections? Check. Cyberattacks? Check. Prominent politicians with murky links to the Kremlin? Check. Fake news and skillfully targeted rumors? Double check.

-- Sanita Jemberga, an investigative journalist in Riga, is one of the people behind a recent documentary film that follows the various ways Russia attempts to push its agenda in the Baltic states. She has traced the ownership of disinformation websites through labyrinths of shell companies back to their real origins in Moscow, and has tracked the flow of money from Kremlin coffers to corrupt Latvian politicians.

-- The Balts are fighting back in a variety of ways. They’re working hard to bolster their cyberdefenses. They’re trying to do a better job of integrating their Russian-speaking populations, in some cases with notable success. As part of that effort, Estonia has opened its own Russian-language TV channel, a modest attempt to counter the hitherto-near-unchallenged supremacy of Putin’s broadcast empire. (As Estonian public-television executive Ainar Ruussaar put it: “Sometimes communication is more important than antitank missiles.”) And the Latvians are working hard on building media literacy, using school workshops that teach teachers and students to differentiate journalistic fact from fiction as well as public service announcements that draw attention to fake news stories.

That last paragraph is spot on common sense. And the US will never ever take that approach on a large scale.
posted by futz at 7:55 PM on April 8, 2017 [54 favorites]

I am sure someone with better knowledge than me can give an intelligent opinion.

Here's my intelligent opinion: none of us knows what really happened. Intelligence services on the ground probably have a good idea what's going on, or a likely guess. Nobody else does. You'll never know for sure, and it's a waste of energy to try and ENHANCE the photos to get at the truth. These events are out of our control, the best we can do is try and put people in power who will respond sensibly and rationally to them. We screwed that pooch, so drinks on me.
posted by dis_integration at 7:59 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

Why a sarin attack to kill 60 people? Seems if you want to kill a bunch of people you just drop a conventional bomb on the city market place.
posted by JackFlash at 8:02 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think it's too risky for Putin to set this up, if Russian forces get killed by accident in the strikes, there's not much he can do and it makes him look weak. If the US uses it as pretext to bring down Assad, he loses an important ally and all of the effort to support him will have been wasted, and again it makes him look weak. It would seem like for the US, risks are much smaller than for Russia.

The counterpoint is that for Trump administration, political risks may be higher than for Putin. Trump has very low ratings and Putin has yuuge ratings. Putin can always blame everything on the US and has 100% support from local media. For Trump admin, after two domestic policy disasters, Russian collusion investigation -- adding a military disaster would be near certain "surely this".

Maybe Trump flips a coin when he's unsure (which is always)?
posted by rainy at 8:11 PM on April 8, 2017

What is the reason for a sarin-gas attack, militarily? I feel like I've seen a bunch of summaries of the attack itself, but not a lot about the strategic reasons for Assad gassing these civilians; is there a good rundown of the thinking behind the attack somewhere?
...

Why a sarin attack to kill 60 people? Seems if you want to kill a bunch of people you just drop a conventional bomb on the city market place.


Because it's not just a military attack and it's not just to kill a bunch of people. It's a terror attack designed to shock, demoralize and terrorize.


Guardian: Syria nerve agent attack: why it made sense to Assad

NYT: The Grim Logic Behind Syria’s Chemical Weapons Attack
posted by chris24 at 8:14 PM on April 8, 2017 [12 favorites]

No peace in Syria until Assad is ousted, says Nikki Haley

Nikki Haley, the US ambassador to the UN, has said that she sees regime change in Syria as one of the Trump administration’s priorities in the country wracked by civil war.

Defeating Islamic State, pushing Iranian influence out of Syria, and the ousting of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad are priorities for Washington, Haley said in an interview on CNN’s State of the Union, which will air in full on Sunday.

“There’s not any sort of option where a political solution is going to happen with Assad at the head of the regime,” Haley said, while reiterating that defeating Isis was still the number one policy goal. “If you look at his actions, if you look at the situation, it’s going to be hard to see a government that’s peaceful and stable with Assad.”

“Regime change is something that we think is going to happen.”

Fuck. Looks like trump is going all in. Was it only 5 days ago that "we" were going to leave Assad alone? Then "one attack and we're outta there...then this? This never ends well.
posted by futz at 8:15 PM on April 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

The explanation that Assad took Trump's comments last week and general buddy-buddyness with Putin as the all clear makes the most sense to me. He's a ruthless madman fighting for his life and his rule, he doesn't need a reason to use CW on his own people other than he can, and he has them, and he thought Trump would do nothing to stop it like Putin does. Trump gave the 'IDAF; signal, and Assad believed him, not counting on Trump being an unreliable idiot with no grasp of anything who changed his mind literally the next day.

Assad is Putin's puppet, he thought Trump was on board with the game plan now, since he's a puppet too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 PM on April 8, 2017 [13 favorites]

Greg Nog: I would say, 3 things: 1. terrorize population that supports rebels; 2. break down rebel morale by asserting dominance "we have weapons that you don't have" 3. test new US administration by doing a small scale attack and measure response. They might have expected the US to downplay the reports so as not to lose focus on ISIS, as Trump made many public statements that he wants to focus on ISIS.
posted by rainy at 8:21 PM on April 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can a remote island in Canada become a safe harbor for those who want to flee Donald Trump?

CAPE BRETON ISLAND, Canada —The first sign of what Rob Calabrese would come to think of as America’s unmooring began last year, just after Donald Trump won his first presidential primary and Calabrese published a $28 website that he’d designed in 30 minutes. “Hi Americans!” it began, and what followed was a sales pitch for an island where Muslims could “roam freely,” and where the only walls were those “holding up the roofs” of “extremely affordable houses.”

“Let’s get the word out!” Calabrese wrote, adding a photo of an empty coastline along the Atlantic Ocean. “Move to Cape Breton if Donald Trump Wins!”

t was meant as a joke — but seven hours after Calabrese linked the site to the Facebook page of the pop radio station where he works as a DJ, in came an email from America. “Not sure if this is real but I’ll bite.” And then another: “It pains me to think of leaving, but this country is beyond repair.”

And then more. Within 24 hours, there were 80 messages. Within a week, there were 2,000, and many used the same words: “nervous” and “terrified” and “help.”

“The United States is losing its mind,” one person wrote.

“So ashamed of half of my country I could curl up and cry,” wrote another.

The emails kept coming, so many that soon the island’s tourism association brought on four seasonal workers to help respond to the inquiries, which were arriving from every state and hundreds of towns, until it seemed to Calabrese that America was filled with people who wanted to get away.

“Look at this one,” he said one day recently, scrolling through a spreadsheet where the inquiries were organized and stopping on No. 2,121. “I am a former U.S. Marine who did two tours to Iraq. And I want out of here.”

He's received almost 5,000 emails.
posted by futz at 8:32 PM on April 8, 2017 [44 favorites]

It's also worth noting that CW are very ineffective against regular army forces, if there's any expectation it may be used. It's only effective against ragtag guerilla type forces, and to terrorize civilians, which is why there's a very strong international agreement to ban CW. But for Assad it makes perfect tactical sense to use them against either rebels or al qaeda or ISIS, especially as he's not strong enough to push them back otherwise. It must be driving him mad that he's sitting on precisely the kind of weapons that would work against his enemies but NATO forbids him to use them and only "allows" him to use the weapons that aren't working well for him and that put him on an even playing ground with his foes.

I can see how he would be anxious to misread any hint that it may be OK for him to use CW.
posted by rainy at 8:33 PM on April 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

But the thing is that he is strong enough to push them back otherwise. Since Russia got involved he has had all the momentum. The rebels have lost their biggest stronghold in Aleppo. It would be more accurate to say that the rebels can't win without American involvement then it would be to say that Assad can't win without doing the worst thing possible in terms of undermining his international standing.

And to say that he's sitting on precisely these weapons means that the whole deal with the OPCW was faked under Obama's nose, which, if true, would be the big story in all of this.
posted by moorooka at 8:44 PM on April 8, 2017

SNL cold open (video)

They were quick to do a sketch about the Pepsi ad too
posted by zachlipton at 9:05 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

I would say he's had a bit of momentum but not nearly enough to assure him of success. His position is still precarious. Just a few days ago Israel said if he again fires on their fighter jets, they'll take all of his anti-air batteries out. Russian direct support was scaled down for the past half a year or so, and may be further scaled down depending on internal Russian events, the same goes for Iran.

The deal wasn't necessarily faked under Obama; he may have produced new Sarin stockpile since then, or he may have kept a small stash. The deal was effectively that he gives up a large amount of CW that was inline with estimates of how much he should have, and if he pretends he has none left and stops using it, we can pretend we believe him. I mean, was it absolutely 100% destroyed, not a single canister left anywhere? Assad probably has a few Sarin canisters under his sofa pillows in his palace for all we know.
posted by rainy at 9:08 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can a remote island in Canada become a safe harbor for those who want to flee Donald Trump?


you know things are rotten when a town like glace bay, ns, looks good to people

(yes, i've been there - and no, it's not nearly remote enough)
posted by pyramid termite at 9:14 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Propaganda or food for thought.?

Oh for fucks sake, YES that's propaganda!

"All evidence suggests this is another false chemical attack allegation made against the government as seen in the Ghouta 2013 attack where the terrorist groups hoped that former President Obama’s “red-line” would be crossed leading to US-intervention in Syria against the government."

That site is saying that not only was this attack supposedly a "false flag," but so was the original 2013 attack! Which resulted in Assad turning over stockpiles of chemical weapons, and Obama seeking but being denied authorization for the use of force against Assad. This is historical fact. Assad used chemical weapons, and the whole world reacted.

The arguments on that page are "moon hoax" level. Like those guys who go "look, why is the flag waving? If there's no atmosphere, huh?" Analyzing photos and looking at downspouts? That:s now how you tell truth from falsehood here.

Facts bend the world around them in a way that lies don't. We may not be expert enough or in a position to judge the evidence ourselves, but look at the behavior of everyone who is. They are all doing exactly what you'd expect if Assad committed this atrocity. And really the posited reasons for anyone else to do it are much, much stupider and more convoluted than Assad's straightforward motivation of trying to terrorize his opposition as he's been doing all along, and prove how unconstrained his power is.

I can't believe how easily Russia has succeeded in muddying the waters.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:15 PM on April 8, 2017 [39 favorites]

but the only way to build that knowledge is to do the work of building that knowledge. Nothing as complicated as institutional reform will work in all cases, even with the best knowledge that we have, but ticking the success rate up a few percentage points is a very worthy goal.

Are you seriously under the impression that institutional reform doesn't happen because people aren't working on it? Because no one is trying to build the knowledge of what works? That's breathtakingly presumptuous.
posted by bardophile at 9:16 PM on April 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Seriously? That's a $19 bottle. Christ.

It's a government function. Ideally there'd be no booze at all, but if there has to be, spending huge amounts of money on it is not something we should be getting behind.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:24 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

Saturday GA-06 update:

Day 11 of in-person ev in GA-6 is D 49, R 29. Highest turnout yet on Cobb Cty new site vt Over all, D 51, R 31 with 21111 ballots accepted

By far the youngest and most diverse day yet--typical for Saturday voting. 63% white, 16% black, 11% 18-29, 22% >65, 33% didn't vote in '14

That 33% infrequent voter seems astonishing in a special election.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on April 8, 2017 [25 favorites]

I mean, was it absolutely 100% destroyed, not a single canister left anywhere? Assad probably has a few Sarin canisters under his sofa pillows in his palace for all we know.

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat...."
posted by moorooka at 9:37 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

""We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat....""

Dude, they USED a reference book ... "A river watering the garden flowed from Eden Syria; from there it was separated into four headwaters. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold oil. (The gold oil of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx WMDs are also there.) The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates." -Genesis 2:10-14 CIA World FactBook
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:43 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

Glenn Beck sued by 'fearless' Tomi Lahren over firing for pro-choice stance

It's the little things in life that make it all worth it, really.
posted by XMLicious at 9:44 PM on April 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yeah, people have been working on some kinda post-colonialism nation-building recipe for a good while now. It is a good idea, that, and it is one that also occurred to lots of people starting decades ago. The UN seems the furthest ahead on it because they are the ones with the scope. They've also got all the problems that exist in the whole world, because they are made of the whole world. But really smart people are indeed working on best practices with this stuff. Peacekeeping has extended to capacity building and outward from there. Just, no one knows how to do it, 'cause they're/we're making it up as we go along. That was a gratifying summary, though.
posted by lauranesson at 9:44 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

By far the youngest and most diverse day yet--typical for Saturday voting. 63% white, 16% black, 11% 18-29, 22% >65, 33% didn't vote in '14
That 33% infrequent voter seems astonishing in a special election.

I've heard that before.

In November.

I'm not getting excited. I'm not even going to be encouraged unless and until I see those results.

We still have a week for the Russians to reveal that the Democrats have been insulting St. Sanders or some other kind of nonsense.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 10:17 PM on April 8, 2017 [7 favorites]

WaPo: How Jeff Sessions wants to bring back the war on drugs

When the Obama administration launched a sweeping policy to reduce harsh prison sentences for nonviolent drug offenders, rave reviews came from across the political spectrum. Civil rights groups and the Koch brothers praised Obama for his efforts, saying he was making the criminal justice system more humane.

But there was one person who watched these developments with some horror. Steven H. Cook, a former street cop who became a federal prosecutor based in Knoxville, Tenn., saw nothing wrong with how the system worked — not the life sentences for drug charges, not the huge growth of the prison population. And he went everywhere — Bill O’Reilly’s show on Fox News, congressional hearings, public panels — to spread a different gospel.

“The federal criminal justice system simply is not broken. In fact, it’s working exactly as designed,” Cook said at a criminal justice panel at The Washington Post last year.

The Obama administration largely ignored Cook, who was then president of the National Association of Assistant U.S. Attorneys. But he won’t be overlooked anymore.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has brought Cook into his inner circle at the Justice Department, appointing him to be one of his top lieutenants to help undo the criminal justice policies of Obama and former attorney general Eric H. Holder Jr. As Sessions has traveled to different cities to preach his tough-on-crime philosophy, Cook has been at his side.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:17 PM on April 8, 2017 [24 favorites]

Mod note: moorooka, chris24, drop this bit of argument.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 10:19 PM on April 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

The deal wasn't necessarily faked under Obama [...] The deal was effectively that he gives up a large amount of CW that was inline with estimates of how much he should have, and if he pretends he has none left and stops using it, we can pretend we believe him.

The fundamental problem is that people who use chemical weapons can never be trusted to not use them again. Assad could surrender existing stocks and submit to surprise inspections and audits, but it's still very hard to prove a negative. As long as the desire and expertise are there and the regime has engineers and chemists and industrial facilities, it can always produce more.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:56 PM on April 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

Chemical weapons are extremely easy to make. It doesn't matter how many are turned over.
posted by jaduncan at 12:34 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

As Sessions has traveled to different cities to preach his tough-on-crime philosophy, Cook has been at his side.

Describing it as a "tough-on-crime philosophy" is explicitly endorsing a framing that favors Sessions.

I strongly suspect that the Washington Post editor would reject describing it as "a more-money-for-prisons philosophy," considering such a description to be unacceptably biased. Why, then, is it acceptable to describe the policy as "tough on crime", given that increased spending on prisons is very likely easier to demonstrate as an outcome of this policy than any effect on crime rates?
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:51 AM on April 9, 2017 [52 favorites]

It's a government function. Ideally there'd be no booze at all, but if there has to be, spending huge amounts of money on it is not something we should be getting behind.

I'm playing a lot of Europa Universalis IV so I see the following:

You're having a state dinner celebrating the leader of China's visit and the sommelier wants to know the budget.

[The finest French wines please] (Lose 50 ducats, Lose 5 prestige, China's opinion of the United States improves by +50)
[Bring the finest of our country's wine] (Lose 30 ducats, China's opinion of United States improves by +30)
[Any old swill will do] (Lose 10 ducats, China's opinion of the United States is lowered by -10, Lose 10 prestige)

Guess which one Trump picked? I'm sorry. A state dinner is where you have a bit of class and spend a fucking dollar on the celebration of a guest.
posted by Talez at 4:34 AM on April 9, 2017 [32 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted. Let's stick more to discussing actual news than writing disaster horror fic. Also, maybe drop the "Oxyamericans" thing, and please, all, just keep in mind that people would like to be able to read the thread for news updates and analyses without other people sharing fantasies about how the reader and/or their loved ones will soon be dead/suffering horribly.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:36 AM on April 9, 2017 [37 favorites]

BLM (Bureau of Land Management) Replaces Mountain Landscape Photo With Coal Seam On Home Page
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 AM on April 9, 2017 [14 favorites]

BLM (Bureau of Land Management) Replaces Mountain Landscape Photo With Coal Seam On Home Page

Only you can prevent forest fires. Seriously. We've been defunded. It's just you.
posted by Talez at 6:38 AM on April 9, 2017 [56 favorites]

Guess what's on today's schedule. Another golf course trip.
posted by zachlipton at 6:46 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

So here's a thing. Mike Cernovich, conspiracy theorist & conduit of information from Trumpland, just published this "report" on Medium that Mike Flynn's replacement as National Security Advisor, HR McMaster, has a plan to invade Syria with 150,000 ground troops. It's by no means a reliable report but it is interesting to see what he's peddling.
posted by scalefree at 7:07 AM on April 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

Cernovich is the very definition of a serial liar.
posted by PenDevil at 7:10 AM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

Meanwhile, Jared hires a PR guy to help handle the White House's image issues. Who'd he hire? A guy named Josh Raffel whose previous PR work includes promoting The Purge, a horror movie about a government that's been turned into a monster.
posted by scalefree at 7:27 AM on April 9, 2017 [28 favorites]

Speaking of McMaster, he's pushing out some more of the crazy.

McFarland to Exit White House as McMaster Consolidates Power

K. T. McFarland has been asked to step down as deputy National Security Advisor to President Donald Trump after less than three months and will become U.S. ambassador to Singapore, according to a person familiar with White House personnel moves.

The departure of the 65-year-old former Fox News commentator comes as Trump’s second National Security Advisor, Lt General H.R. McMaster, puts his own stamp on the National Security Council after taking over in February following the firing of Michael Flynn.

It follows a reorganization of the NSC in the past week to remove Stephen Bannon, Trump’s chief strategist and senior counselor, from the principals committee. Former Goldman Sachs executive Dina Powell remains as deputy national security adviser, and a second person will be named to that role.

posted by chris24 at 7:28 AM on April 9, 2017 [16 favorites]

Well, she's finally done it. Louise Mensch has crossed the streams of rightwing Soros conspiracies with Russia conspiracies. Russia not only stole the election for Trump, it funded those BLM thugs and socialists protesting in Ferguson.

@LouiseMensch Retweeted 0Hour1
That's because you, Russia, funded riots in Ferguson. See 0 hour I have your connections to Trump archived via Schiller and Scavino
posted by chris24 at 7:38 AM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

Who'd he hire? A guy named Josh Raffel

KEEP AMERICA GREAT amirite?
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:57 AM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

'Russia funded Ferguson...'

... that is deep
posted by From Bklyn at 7:59 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

Good read: The Myth of Main Street:
It’s worth noting that the idealized Main Street is not a myth in some parts of America today. It exists, but only as a luxury consumer experience. Main Streets of small, independent boutiques and nonfranchised restaurants can be found in affluent college towns, in gentrified neighborhoods in Brooklyn and San Francisco, in tony suburbs — in any place where people have ample disposable income. Main Street requires shoppers who don’t really care about low prices. The dream of Main Street may be populist, but the reality is elitist. “Keep it local” campaigns are possible only when people are willing and able to pay to do so.
posted by TwoStride at 8:11 AM on April 9, 2017 [36 favorites]

WaPo: How Jeff Sessions wants to bring back the war on drugs

An important detail to remember in this context is that Sessions is Mr. Civil Asset Forfeiture. (civil asset forfeiture previously)
posted by XMLicious at 8:24 AM on April 9, 2017 [21 favorites]

It’s worth noting that the idealized Main Street is not a myth in some parts of America today. It exists, but only as a luxury consumer experience.

it's not a myth in the small town midwest, at least in the areas that are more dependent on agriculture or factories that are still doing well - and, no, this is not a luxury consumer experience

but it shouldn't surprise me that the NYT gets it wrong ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:25 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

Dana Milbank, WaPo: Mitch McConnell, the man who broke America

By rights, McConnell’s tombstone should say that he presided over the end of the Senate. And I’d add a second line: “He broke America.” No man has done more in recent years to undermine the functioning of U.S. government. His has been the epitome of unprincipled leadership, the triumph of tactics in service of short-term power.

After McConnell justified his filibuster-ending “nuclear option” by saying it would be beneficial for the Senate, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said this: “Whoever says that is a stupid idiot.”

McConnell is no idiot. He is a clever man who does what works for him in the moment, consequences be damned.

posted by ZeusHumms at 8:30 AM on April 9, 2017 [23 favorites]

I spent several years living in an extremely remote, rural part of the Pacific Northwest, and this was indeed what Main Street was becoming there: after an attempt at mall in the 80s had killed off Main Street, and then a Super Wal-Mart in the early 00s killed off the mall, Main Street "revitalized" itself by essentially becoming a place to buy lovely (but pricey) handmand soaps, boutique clothes and artisanal woodworkings, and/or Christian books. There was nothing of the "everyday" that could be purchased there.
posted by TwoStride at 8:31 AM on April 9, 2017 [19 favorites]

On the one hand, i'm happy that McMaster is kicking the real loons like McFarland and Bannon off the NSC.

On the other hand, I worry that McMaster is going to push for a full force commitment to regime change in Syria for reasons not based on pathological islamophobia and trump doesn't have the backbone or convictions to push back.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:33 AM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

There was nothing of the "everyday" that could be purchased there.


Jim Kunstler (MeFi's own?) likes to point out in his talks that main street boutiques and farmer's markets might look twee today, but the people operating them could switch to selling necessities in less than an afternoon if the need arose.
posted by ocschwar at 8:35 AM on April 9, 2017 [10 favorites]

it's not a myth in the small town midwest, at least in the areas that are more dependent on agriculture or factories that are still doing well

Well, I grew up in Kansas and and lot of people in my family lived on farms... and shopped at Walmart.

The only healthy main streets I've ever seen are in upscale suburbs.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:36 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

I think that's actually driving a lot of rurual fury: "What happened to our small town main streets? You coastal elites killed them somehow..."
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:37 AM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

What happened to our small town main streets? You coastal elites killed them somehow..."

Wal-Mart?
posted by thelonius at 8:38 AM on April 9, 2017 [43 favorites]

Well, I grew up in Kansas and and lot of people in my family lived on farms... and shopped at Walmart.

The only healthy main streets I've ever seen are in upscale suburbs.

Come to Michigan. There are plenty of small town main streets and a good number of them are keeping those towns alive. It's true that you aren't as likely to find core businesses like grocery stores and pharmacies (although I've seen instances of both), but the restaurants and specialty stores are often vital businesses for downtowns, and no, they don't all cater to tourists and "elites."
posted by Preserver at 8:41 AM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

And Australia is like WTF mate? ^^
posted by Evilspork at 8:47 AM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

My New England town has a couple of foofy boutique stores just off main street, and a hardware store which became a franchise a couple of decades ago, but otherwise there's an independent pharmacy, a grocery market from a small local chain, a coin-operated laundromat, and a variety of non-chain restaurants.
posted by XMLicious at 8:49 AM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

walmart = figment of nyt's imagination, got it
posted by entropicamericana at 9:06 AM on April 9, 2017 [8 favorites]

I think that's actually driving a lot of rurual fury: "What happened to our small town main streets? You coastal elites killed them somehow..."

I was stuck thinking about this through the lens of the typical rural brain drain the other day, how so many of the best and brightest kids can't wait to get out, and how that hurts the community long term, and how ultimately it's absolutely the fault of the community the parents have built being unacceptable to the kids but they'll never own that, so they blame the places of opportunity their kids flock to.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:14 AM on April 9, 2017 [63 favorites]

it's not a myth in the small town midwest, at least in the areas that are more dependent on agriculture or factories that are still doing well - and, no, this is not a luxury consumer experience

but it shouldn't surprise me that the NYT gets it wrong ...

I'd say it's not a myth in some really small towns, but it takes a surprisingly low population density for the mythical version of that to kick in. I was in Le Mars, Iowa yesterday, population 9,800 and change, and their main street is all boutiques and specialty stores interspersed with boarded up storefronts. And it's basically like that to cater to the (relatively minor as these things go) touristy traffic that comes for the Blue Bunny ice cream company's ice cream parlor ("Le Mars, Ice Cream Capital of the World!") and doesn't really do much of anything to serve the residents other than give them a handful of jobs that don't pay well. And I'm sure if I went there this time next year half those boutiques and specialty stores will be boarded up themselves or replaced with someone else's attempt at a similar thing, because there's not a lot of profit in it.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:25 AM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

Also a surprising amount of that kind of downtown revitalization as illusion comes down to the ego and pride of the decision makers in those towns, we recently had a rural economic development workshop where I work and there was a stark difference between the stories from the people who knew what their town's limits were and worked within them, and the people who kept pursuing these prestige projects to make their town look better than it is (and it's always, always that cute little bohemian downtown storefronts thing for them). The former were so much more successful in helping their towns.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:32 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

and the people who kept pursuing these prestige projects to make their town look better than it is

All we need is Uber and Lyft and everything will work out fine!
posted by mikelieman at 9:39 AM on April 9, 2017

You know what would definitely bring back those dead main streets and cure the related opinion crisis all at the same time? Tax cuts!

White House aides say the goal is to cut tax rates sharply enough to improve the economic picture in depressed rural and industrial pockets of the country where many Trump voters live.

Why has no one thought of this before?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 AM on April 9, 2017 [17 favorites]

Totally foolproof! Hey, we have no tax base worth speaking of ourselves, so what we need are tax cuts to bring businesses here and we'll extend municipal infrastructure to service those businesses with MAGIC! Because they'll never leave and they'll totally keep all their money flowing locally! I mean sure you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch but if we can lure in a Walmart that's like having infinite eggs!
posted by jason_steakums at 9:49 AM on April 9, 2017 [13 favorites]

I grew up in a very cute "main street USA" town. We did have a main street with antique shops, a bar, a candy store, and when I was a kid there was once a pet store and a video rental. There was even a small, family-owned grocery and a clothing store. But before our cute small town had a Target, we just... drove 25 mins to the town that had one. Because, yes, we were a lower-middle-class family and Target was cheaper. And that's the way the US economy has operated for decades. Everyone loves the fantasy of main street, but the middle class is going to shop at Wal-mart because they can't afford the alternative after decades of getting fucked over.
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:52 AM on April 9, 2017 [44 favorites]

I don't want pee tapes. I don't want the idea of Trump being soiled with some forced collusion narrative. He's not a victim. He needs to be remembered for doing these idiotic things of his own accord.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 9:59 AM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

Putting on my "what would I do if I were a fascist" hat, I'd say the long-term plan for improving the economy of rural america is cutting the last bits of the social safety net that remain out there, stepping up the criminalization of poverty, and converting as many of the residents as possible to imprisoned slave labor. Because prisoners are available for hyperexploitation well beyond the exploitation possible with nominally free workers, this will make those areas much more attractive to business.

I know it seems somewhat radical to set out to convert the largely white inhabitants of rural America to imprisoned slave labor, instead of just capturing people of color from cities and then exporting them to rural areas to slave in rural prisons, but I think America is ready to take this step.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:00 AM on April 9, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Main Street Myth is very complex and like so much of America it vastly depends on location. Main Street, Seal Beach is probably one of the most ideal of any that I have visited because it has a mix of upscale and budget. Taco cafes and Seafood Restaurants. Souvenir shops and antique stores. Art galleries and surf shops. However several things have conspired to make it so: tourist town, plenty of local money, easy access from the highway and lots of parking.

Now compare that with the Main Street where I live: One business block on one side of a narrow two lane street hemmed in by the railroad tracks. Few parking spots, not much money in the surrounding area, and no tourist action. It's hard to find because it is tucked off from the main highway so there is little reason for drive-by traffic.

When my husband moved into this house 27 years ago you could buy a loaf of bread or cigarettes at the ice cream parlor, check out a book from the library or do your banking. All of those businesses closed within 10 years. Our main businesses are the Black barbershop, the Black hair salon, a tax lawyer and a florist. Newer businesses drawn in by the recent revitalization project are a graffix shop and a coin collector's shop. They've been promising a coffee shop for years but can't seem to deliver.

In the 17 years I've lived here a whole string of businesses have come and gone-- including an oyster bar-- because there is no reason to drive over here unless you have a specific reason like going to the same barbershop your father went to. There is no drive-by traffic and nothing to entice you to explore. We may some day get that coffee shop but unless it is something very special it will close quickly because there are coffee shops all over highway 70 and I doubt the local residents could support a shop themselves.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:01 AM on April 9, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hey I REALLY need a [fake] or [real] tag around that Kushner hiring The Purge PR guy article in NY Mag. Is that their Onion-esque section? Or is that for real?
posted by gucci mane at 10:07 AM on April 9, 2017

I can't even imagine a world without cafe. I don't think I've ever lived more than 500 METRES away from a cafe.
posted by Yowser at 10:08 AM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

The New York Times' opinion piece about "a Main Street that never quite existed" is bullshit because not only did the sorts of Main Streets they describe exist in the past in non-wealthy communities, they exist now. If the author had restrained themselves from a bid for iconoclasty, and instead asked why those successful Main Streets that are accessible to non-wealthy people are successful, so that people doing their laundry at a coin-operated laundromat can walk over and buy their groceries or go to the library or the bank, it could have been much more informative.

Or if they just pointed out that the majority of consumer purchasing isn't going to be going through Main Streets because there's just so damn much consumer purchasing now. But because there's so much, a far smaller percentage of it could probably support viable Main Streets all over the place, if they're planned and cultivated rather than portrayed as mythology. (Though, as people are pointing out, I doubt it's tax cuts that make the difference... but that's one of the details that might have been explored in an article that wasn't just an echo chamber opinion piece.)
posted by XMLicious at 10:13 AM on April 9, 2017 [6 favorites]

Do the coal miners all hang out on Main Street?
posted by Artw at 10:22 AM on April 9, 2017 [7 favorites]

So I went and read that article, and I'm glad I did. Here's a quote. It's right after talking about how the regulatory environment that made main street a thing depended on laws setting floors on prices (keeping manufacturers from cutting special deals with large chains) and on strong labor laws:

But this world was unsustainable. It unraveled in the 1960s and 1970s, as fair trade laws were repealed, manufacturers discovered overseas suppliers and unions came undone. On Main Street, prices came down for shoppers, but at the same time, so did wage growth. Main Street was officially dead.

So. Run this in reverse and it's a manual for how to "revitalize main street": strengthen labor power, so that folks have money, and set floors on prices, so that the big bourgeoisie from the cities can't leverage economies of scale to muscle out local petit bourgeois businessowners and thereby vacuum money out of small towns and into major cities.

The thing I was going to say before I went and actually read the article was that one reason why wealthy liberals and the people who write for wealthy liberals can only recognize a main street as thriving when it contains twee shops selling luxury tchotchkes to the upper-middle class is that they tend to interpret a real thriving main street — something with laundromats and bodegas and cheap bars and little libraries and junk shops and hardware stores (instead of Restoration Hardware) — as being blight.

And now the thing I want to point out, after having actually RTFA, is that the same class interests that tend to interpret a genuinely thriving main street as blight tend to also interpret things like labor regulations and things like limits to the power of the rich to leverage economies of scale against everyone else as being blight — as inefficiencies that must be sweated out of the system, rather than as the things that makes the system work.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:30 AM on April 9, 2017 [110 favorites]

Hey I REALLY need a [fake] or [real] tag around that Kushner hiring The Purge PR guy article in NY Mag. Is that their Onion-esque section? Or is that for real?

I see new outlets across the spectrum posting the story so until it's debunked I'm going with [real].
posted by scalefree at 10:31 AM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

No coal miners in my town, nor the antique stores and souvenir shops other people are mentioning. And there's a "Miracle Mile" type area with chain stores and fast food restaurants too, but it co-exists with the main street thanks to planning and effort and budget items specifically supporting main street revitalization having been put on ballots and voted through by the townspeople during the past few decades. Maybe it's one-of-a-kind or something.
posted by XMLicious at 10:31 AM on April 9, 2017

Russian computer programmer arrested in Spain: embassy

A Russian computer programmer, Pyotr Levashov, has been arrested in the Spanish city of Barcelona, a spokesman for the Russian embassy in Madrid said on Sunday.

Russian television station RT reported that Levashov was suspected of being involved in hacking attacks linked to alleged interference in last year's U.S. election.

He was arrested under a U.S. international arrest warrant, RT reported on its website, citing Spanish police.
posted by futz at 11:24 AM on April 9, 2017 [9 favorites]

If anyone's looking for a good political cause to donate to, my friend David Sparks is running for Ohio State Representative in the 43rd district next year. (Donation page.) We worked together to support Bernie in 2015. David's a great organizer with solid progressive politics.

He also ran last year and did quite well, despite huge Republican expenditure on attack ads and a blatantly gerrymandered district.
posted by Coventry at 11:24 AM on April 9, 2017 [12 favorites]

Assad allies say U.S. attack on Syria air base crosses 'red lines'

-- A joint command center made up of the forces of Russia, Iran and militias supporting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said the U.S. strike on a Syrian air base on Friday crossed "red lines" and it would respond to any new aggression and increase its support for its ally.

-- "What America waged in an aggression on Syria is a crossing of red lines. From now on we will respond with force to any aggressor or any breach of red lines from whoever it is and America knows our ability to respond well," said the statement published by the group on media outlet Ilam al Harbi (War Media).

-- U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, meanwhile, blamed Russian inaction for helping fuel the chemical weapons attack it had reacted to, saying Moscow had failed to carry out a 2013 agreement to secure and destroy chemical weapons in Syria.

He said the United States expected Russia to take a tougher stance against Syria by rethinking its alliance with Assad because "every time one of these horrific attacks occurs, it draws Russia closer into some level of responsibility."

Uh, it looks like Russia is aiding and abetting Syria and the US just pushed them closer together. USA! USA! USA!
posted by futz at 11:34 AM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

> If anyone's looking for a good political cause to donate to, my friend David Sparks is running for Ohio State Representative in the 43rd district next year. (Donation page.) We worked together to support Bernie in 2015. David's a great organizer with solid progressive politics.

Donated!

also, tell the web person that there's a typo on the acknowledgment page — there's an apostrophe that's got a backslash before it. gave me flashbacks to debugging regexes :)

metafilter is my affinity group
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:34 AM on April 9, 2017 [10 favorites]

the people who write for wealthy liberals can only recognize a main street as thriving when it contains twee shops selling luxury tchotchkes

There might be something to that. If you asked me if my Main Street is thriving, I would say "No" because there are no interesting shop windows, nowhere to get food (prepared or otherwise) and no services I am interested in using. Yet if I think about it, the barbershop does a steady business, as do the tax preparation office, the graphics place and the florist's. The florist for example is very low key; she mostly fulfills phone orders for funeral wreaths and bouquets but doesn't bother putting any fresh flowers on display. There is no foot traffic so I guess there is no need to make her shop look attractive.

It's a shame there isn't anything I want to buy or even look at but I guess that doesn't define "thriving."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:52 AM on April 9, 2017 [13 favorites]

> There is no foot traffic so I guess there is no need to make her shop look attractive.

This foot traffic thing is a smart observation; working-class main streets look different now that driving is mandatory in so much of the country. The places that look like main streets from the era of walking and public transportation tend to be places marketed to people with the time and money to stroll as a recreation, whereas working main streets often don't put out much to advertise to walkers, because there are no walkers.

(and also, in the places where walking and public transportation are still viable modes of non-recreational transportation, the presence of PoC on foot often scares off wealthy white liberals.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:06 PM on April 9, 2017 [31 favorites]

If that NYT guy drove, he could drive an hour into New Jersey and find mythical Main Streets in every town along the fucking way. Sometimes they're actually minor highways like 22, 1-9 and 287; sometimes they're walkable urban-ish streets. But they are full of small businesses that are functional, that make money by serving a need in the community, that co-exist prosperously with Walmart et al.

Some particular factors about this area are

HISTORY: we had a mature economy well before the corporatization of everything. Some of the businesses I'm thinking of have been in business since the '30s, and some of them own their space instead of renting it, which provides an insulating cushion of wealth.

POPULATION DENSITY: it's basically the suburbs of NYC. Large parts of this area are lower-class, but they still attract a fair number of people because we're close to richer areas.

AVAILABLE MONEY SUPPLY: Another side effect of NYC. One of the symptoms is inflated real estate prices, which inflates the local money supply when those properties are mortgaged, which they mostly are.

EMPLOYMENT: the unemployment rate in this particular area tracks 1 to 2 points lower than the nation as a whole, even in more rural areas like Hunterdon County.

things we DON'T have include GOOD GOVERNMENT so you can scratch that off the list. It's possible that our super-localized system of government protects us, but corruption is very common, so I doubt it.

We are being hit by the same opioid epidemic as everyone else.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:07 PM on April 9, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm at Senator Carey's town hall right now. Standing O when the Senator came to the stage. A few hundred folks here on a truly, ridiculously gorgeous Sunday afternoon. First question: how much money is being spent on Trump's travel.

Agree/Disagree signs handed out at the door so that's pretty amusing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:14 PM on April 9, 2017 [15 favorites]

He's getting a really really hard time about fracking (75% questions so far, so it seems that the environmental groups turned their people out well). That's a local issue, and hugely important, but better people to talk to about it are our state and local pols. Grilling Casey about it doesn't do much.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:28 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hell, the NYT guy didn't even need to leave his desk. He could go to Main Street America and see what is happening on Main Streets across the country. Historic preservation and economic revitalization go hand-in-hand. Here in Michigan, during the economic downturn, our Main Street districts outperformed the national average with more than twice as many businesses opened than closed.
posted by Preserver at 12:41 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

I see that if I go to the US in the future, not only will I have to hand over all my personal infosec data, I may face ideological vetting.

As I can't hand over all my infosec stuff, because that is incompatible with my professional ethics, I guess that will make me (and anyone else who has a duty to preserve client or corporate data) unable to even contemplate visiting the US. As for having an ideology that the border goons find acceptable - my god, may that never be true.

If I were ISIS, or Mexico, or whoever the hell it is that's the notional reason for such incomparable stupidity, I'd be hugging myself with utter glee at causing such immense damage to America without having to throw out so much as a threatening glance at the cat.
posted by Devonian at 1:05 PM on April 9, 2017 [36 favorites]

_{Does someone want to do an FPP on the Main Street thing? It's interesting but good lord is it a big-ass derail.}
posted by aspersioncast at 1:17 PM on April 9, 2017 [16 favorites]

Pretty sure that PR thing is [real] because Trump is already using the tagline from The Purge: Election Year for his 2020 campaign slogan.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 1:17 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

neo-nazi richard spencer punched in the face and then glitterbombed, again
posted by xcasex at 1:29 PM on April 9, 2017 [37 favorites]

Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

Wisconsin takes aim at outdoors magazine, subscribers erupt

Twenty years of back issues in Jim Stroschein's attic attest to his love of the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources' magazine. Since 1919, the publication has featured stories and photos highlighting Wisconsin's natural splendor, from where to hunt, fish, hike and camp to what it's like to own a north woods cabin.

If Republican Gov. Scott Walker gets his way, this will be the magazine's last year. Even though it is sustained entirely by subscribers — it had nearly 84,000 as of December — Walker's proposed budget would end it next February. He argues that the state shouldn't be in the publishing business and that the DNR can reach more people through social media.

The proposal has outraged subscribers, particularly older ones who don't rely on the internet for news, and has Democrats wondering if the pro-industry governor wants to pull the plug because the publication promotes science.

posted by Room 641-A at 1:49 PM on April 9, 2017 [52 favorites]

Tourists from the UK and other US allies including Germany and France, could be forced to reveal personal data, as well as disclose financial information and face detailed ideological questioning, according to Trump administration officials quoted by the Wall Street Journal.

per Devonian's link. This would probably work as well, ie not at all, as the two previous Muslim ones but for a different reason: the UK and the EU would immediately institute a counter-vetting on all American tourists. Which would mightily piss off American tourists who are generally in the middle/upper middle class range and not used to being scrutinized at borders. (yes, generalizing here but think: tour groups of the sort advertised on PBS Sunday programs). Right as we enter the prime European vacation season.

btw, it was tried before, in the late 80s, the US decided to require visas for French visitors due to some contretemps and overnight American tourists needed to apply for one to enter France instead of getting a stamp on arrival. Mass confusion for a couple weeks until the US backed down.

So I'm optimistic.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:49 PM on April 9, 2017 [9 favorites]

From xcasex's link, this bit was especially interesting: Richard Spencer was attacked while leading a demonstration in Washington, D.C., against the military strikes against Syria.

Neo-Nazis obviously aren't opposed to violence per se, so I presume he was acting on behalf of his sponsor. He may have been doing it to show loyalty or it may demonstrate how seriously Russia regards the US attack on its ally, but in any event it's interesting to see his pragmatic regard for his genuine interests exposed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:14 PM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ivanka Trump 'pushed for her father to bomb Syria'

-- A cable briefing to Theresa May and Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson by Britain’s ambassador to Washington Sir Kim Darroch said Ms Trump was influential in bringing about the bombings, those who saw the memo said.

-- Sources who read the message said the first daughter's position on the atrocity was a “significant influence in the Oval Office”. Ministers were told it meant the administration’s reaction was “stronger than expected”.
posted by futz at 2:26 PM on April 9, 2017 [12 favorites]

-- Sources who read the message said the first daughter's position on the atrocity was a “significant influence in the Oval Office”. Ministers were told it meant the administration’s reaction was “stronger than expected”.

How's she doing with the definition of "complicit" these days?
posted by nubs at 2:32 PM on April 9, 2017 [32 favorites]

Texas plans to designate official state gun along with other weapons

Utah became the first state to name an official firearm in 2011, citing the Browning M1911 automatic pistol. Arizona soon followed, adopting a Colt revolver four months after the mass shooting in Tucson that killed six and seriously injured more than a dozen others, including then-US congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Indiana, West Virginia, Alaska and Pennsylvania followed, while last year the Barrett M82 became the official state rifle of Tennessee.

posted by XMLicious at 2:33 PM on April 9, 2017 [6 favorites]

I am very happy that the left in the U.S. is developing a reputation for the skilled application of organized violence against naziism. Thank you to everyone out there physically confronting nazi leaders; by terrorizing and humiliating them, you're destroying their ability to recruit nazi followers.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:52 PM on April 9, 2017 [20 favorites]

Will all the other guns have a sad?
posted by Artw at 3:01 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

Thanks, Buick!
posted by Coventry at 3:02 PM on April 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

Jeremy Scahill says Fareed Zakaria ‘would have sex with’ missile strike, bashes media coverage of Syria on CNN

On CNN Sunday morning, award-winning journalist Jeremy Scahill bashed the “atrocious” media coverage of President Donald Trump’s missile attack in Syria. Scahill took particular aim at Fareed Zakaria who, after Thursday night’s attack, quickly proclaimed that he felt Trump “became President of the United States.”

“You know, Fareed Zakaria––if that guy could have sex with this cruise missile attack, I think he would do it,” Scahill argued to Brian Stelter, host of “Reliable Sources.” He also slammed Brian Williams after referring to the Pentagon video of the strike, as “beautiful.” Scahill said Williams appeared as if he was in “true love.”

more of this please.
posted by futz at 3:04 PM on April 9, 2017 [80 favorites]

Scahill makes another very good point:

He then told Stelter that CNN must “immediately withdraw all retired generals and colonels from its airwaves” arguing that major networks consistently fail to inform viewers that they have largely benefit from aggressive military actions. Stelter pressed him to elaborate and said it’s an “extreme view” that the public shouldn’t hear from military experts when military action is taking place.

“When you have these retired generals and colonels on, let’s hear what defense companies they’re on the boards of. Let’s hear how they have their own private companies that benefitted off of the Iraq war,” Scahill argued.
posted by futz at 3:08 PM on April 9, 2017 [72 favorites]

Texas plans to designate official state gun along with other weapons

when is Texas designating a state dildo?
posted by indubitable at 3:12 PM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

If we designate a state broadaxe, can I start carrying one in public?
posted by Archelaus at 3:14 PM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

Rick Perry is busy right now
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:14 PM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

UK -- most definitely, even if just from subs. If your nuclear triad has only one leg you want it to be subs.

Aren't the UK's warheads maintained by US technicians in a facility in North Carolina or something?


Hear also the Private Eye Podcast e.p. 94 (about 12 mins in). (According to) the UK has complete independence in terms of launching nukes at folks and turning them into mere (literal) shadows of their former selves. But, and as always, it's a big arse butt of a "but" it seems that once those babies are up and atmospheric and en route to the fields of destruction, then it's entirely up to Lockheed Martin (or whatever the fuckers are called these days) where and whether they land.


----
NICOLA STURGEON
Then Scotland will answer. Muster the Caldonians!



Bring forth the ancient bindings and spoons.

IIRC there was a great episode of Breaking the News where they went through all the words you want. (It bugs me how little the show is known, it's randomly good, but often so much better than).

Anyhoo I digress...

Think the episode in question featured Raymond Mearns (oddly aspy and adept at math) and Val McDermid
posted by Buntix at 3:15 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

So yesterday I decided to listen to some Kate Bush because it had been a long time. And it was enjoyable. And then the song "Breathing" came on and I had a panic reaction. (I don't want to say full-fledged panic attack -- but it was on the way there.)

After 25+ years of not being afraid (much) of nuclear annihilation -- I guess we are back to the 80s again. Only now I am older, have more of a sense of my own mortality, and have seen Threads. So it's far more scary now. Thanks Trump, MAGA assholes, Jill Stein voters, and the like. Thanks a whole fucking lot.

(For those unfamiliar with the song -- it's from the POV of a fetus whose mother has just survived a nuclear attack. The fetus is utterly reliant on the mother, of course, and the mother is reliant on breathing to live -- breathing the fallout which will kill them both. Near the end the background voices sing "We are all going to die--". Yeah, might want to block this song in iTunes for a while.)
posted by litlnemo at 3:15 PM on April 9, 2017 [7 favorites]

Resetting the "days since he has been punched" back to 0 again.
And glitter bombed. Couldn´t be better.
posted by adamvasco at 3:15 PM on April 9, 2017 [10 favorites]

So China fucked off from Mar-a-lago, we have a destroyer group headed in their direction, and we're not hearing anything about it?

According to Sleepy Tillerson, China is totes on board with taking action against North Korea (Guardian).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:19 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

From GOP Senator Tom Cotton's op-ed: It’s hard to overstate just how low the standing of the United States had fallen because of President Barack Obama’s failure to enforce his own “red line” against Mr. Assad’s use of chemical weapons in 2013. I was one of the few Republican members of Congress who supported strikes against Syria then.

Possibly it was not Obama's failure then?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:19 PM on April 9, 2017 [33 favorites]

September 11, 2013: Congress Privately Thrilled There’s No Syria Vote

The resolution: Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against the Government of Syria to Respond to Use of Chemical Weapons
posted by Evilspork at 3:26 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

A bit of silliness: I used one of Phlegmco(tm)'s great drawings to make this.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:37 PM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

Mod note: Jesus Saves! (his comments for topical matters, he does not derail.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 3:40 PM on April 9, 2017 [14 favorites]

Mulvaney will order agencies to plan for big cuts

Around midweek, Mick Mulvaney's Office of Management and Budget will send a "guidance" letter to federal agencies ordering them to create plans to make themselves significantly smaller and less costly. It's part of Mulvaney's effort to make the federal government more efficient.

This could be a big deal, and it fits in with Bannon's plan to deconstruct — or, as Kushner would have it, reconstruct and reimagine — the "administrative state."

The guidance stems from Trump's March 13 executive order, which called for a "comprehensive plan" to reorganize the executive branch. Agencies will likely consider selling real estate, laying off personnel, and eliminating programs deemed redundant. It's possible some agencies or components could be closed down or folded into other agencies.
posted by futz at 4:03 PM on April 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

Surprised that the admin hasn't floated the idea of selling off all the huge gov't buildings it owns on DC, razing them and building some condos. Or is that for the second term?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:06 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

i wonder how many parcels of government real estate will be sold to trump shell corps and it'll be just another outrage for a moment before a bigger outrage and it sinks down the memory hole
posted by localhuman at 4:29 PM on April 9, 2017 [16 favorites]

lovely moos

The NUKE MAP
posted by Buntix at 4:33 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

So if Trump was all set to not bomb something, but then was influenced by his daughter to bomb something, does that still count as "presidential"? Asking for a friend.
posted by supercrayon at 4:36 PM on April 9, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ivanka Trump 'pushed for her father to bomb Syria'

"Complicit. For sophisticated women...who love the smell of napalm in the morning."
posted by Lyme Drop at 4:42 PM on April 9, 2017 [9 favorites]

Sorry to continue the "main street" derail, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately. My hometown is the suburb King of the Hill was based on. When I grew up in the 90s, our "main street" was allantique shops and shuttered old buildings. As I've gone back home over the years, I've found that it's gained coffee shops, local restaurants, and a really cool microbrewery. It's in the midst of a concerted redevelopment project.

When my grandmother died, my grandfather moved to the nearest city to his hometown, Grand Island, NE. The town clearly has two parts - the empty field just outside of town full of big box stores - Walmart, Best Buy, Starbucks, various chain restaurants, and many local places in the strip malls trying to get by. The downtown area has bars, a recently closed favorite steak palce, a brew pub, coffee shops, antique stores, and vape shops.

When we buried my grandfather, we went to his hometown Ashland and had lunch at the only bar on main street. The owners' kids served us beer while they watched their baby brother in the back room. It was the only place to eat in town.

Some towns are too small for the chain restaurants and big box stores to care about. Even the towns with Walmart and Target can have recovering downtowns that seem to be growing out of a need for community. Maybe you can't buy nail clippers or duct tape, but they'll have bars, coffee shops, and restaurants that are trying to be the focus point for a more engaged, connected community. Also, for some reason, there's a lot of vape shops, I'm assuming because there's not a large national 'Starbucks' of vape shops to totally crush that market yet.

In conclusion, "main street america" is a land of contrasts.
posted by heathkit at 4:46 PM on April 9, 2017 [10 favorites]

The NUKE MAP

This made me sad. I thought I was within the "insta'd" radius of DC for what a Russian/Chinese strike would be. Turns out I'm in the 2nd degree burns radius!

!FUN!
posted by Slackermagee at 4:48 PM on April 9, 2017

So if Trump was all set to not bomb something, but then was influenced by his daughter to bomb something, does that still count as "presidential"?

It all depends on the tone of the movie score at that moment.
posted by Coventry at 5:05 PM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

Utah became the first state to name an official firearm in 2011, citing the Browning M1911 automatic pistol. Arizona soon followed, adopting a Colt revolver four months after the mass shooting in Tucson that killed six and seriously injured more than a dozen others, including then-US congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Indiana, West Virginia, Alaska and Pennsylvania followed, while last year the Barrett M82 became the official state rifle of Tennessee.

Something something something, government picking winners and losers, something something.
posted by Talez at 5:17 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
Tens of millions of dollars in airstrikes had no impact because key leaders fled after hearing ON NEWS REPORTS the strikes were coming. DUMB

@tedfrank Retweeted Donald J. Trump
It's like Trump insulted an old gypsy woman who cursed him to live out his tweets.
posted by chris24 at 5:38 PM on April 9, 2017 [72 favorites]

Bill O’Reilly’s ratings are actually higher than they were since the sexual harassment allegations

More than 3.7 million people tuned into “The O’Reilly Factor” on Monday, and 3.8 million did so Tuesday, according to USA Today, despite the report by the New York Times. (The previous week, the highest-rated O’Reilly show had 2.3 million viewers.)
posted by futz at 6:06 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

AP: Trump Scraps Tax Plan Before Actually Shopping It To Congress, Starts Over

The White House is trying to learn the lessons from health care.
…
Trump, who brands himself as a deal-maker, has not said which trade-offs he might accept and he has remained noncommittal on the leading blueprint, from Rep. Kevin Brady, chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.

that's some good learnin' right there
posted by murphy slaw at 6:14 PM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

@JoyAnnReid on the shake-up at NatSec:

A GOP source tells me the K.T. McFarland ouster was ugly. McMaster told her it's Singapore or nothing. She was holding out for sweeter deal.

Asked the source if the administration was eager to put McFarland far away in Sinagapore out of subpoena reach. Answer: absolutely.

One more sip of tea: asked source who's in more jeopardy for bringing Russiagate to Trumpworld: Flynn or Manafort. Answer: "follow Flynn."
posted by chaoticgood at 6:21 PM on April 9, 2017 [32 favorites]

How is the Singapore Embassy out of subpoena reach?
posted by Coventry at 6:29 PM on April 9, 2017 [10 favorites]

So I live between two towns with fairly good Town Squares. One is a relatively wealthy small town with good tourist traffic. It's got the twee boutique thing going, along with some really high end restaurants. The boutiques seem to mostly come and go, though, so I'm not sure how great they really do. Unfortunately every time a decent local restaurant goes in, it folds. There was an exceptional breakfast cafe that mostly served locals and I was devastated when it closed. And a good German place was there for about 8 months. It seems like the only places that can stay open are the upscale places for the elite of the town and bourgeois tourists.

The other nearby town is much, much poorer. It's downtown is much more empty and quieter. One one restaurant, that's sort of generic burgers and stuff. But there's also a local hardware store, a western clothing store, auto parts store. Because the town doesn't have literally anywhere else but Walmart. So if you need something Walmart doesn't have, you go to the local place. Or if you want slightly better quality, like really hard-wearing cowboy clothes. There's​ no tourist traffic, and the people who live there are less likely to drive 40 miles into another town to shop, because they're poor and a lot are elderly​.

I don't know which is really better, but I know which town I'd rather live in, and it's the first one because there's so much more happening there and more jobs and opportunities.
posted by threeturtles at 6:46 PM on April 9, 2017 [4 favorites]

What does the junior Supreme Court justice do? Kagan tells Gorsuch it starts in the kitchen

-- Kagan is a storyteller, and knows this is a topic that audiences usually eat up, so she played it for all it was worth.

The junior justice has three unique responsibilities, she said. But in recounting them, she always starts with the fact that the newest justice is assigned to cafeteria duty and keeps it until the next justice is confirmed.

“I think this is a way to kind of humble people,” she said during the “fireside chat” at the elegant Broadmoor resort in Colorado Springs. “You think you’re kind of hot stuff. You’re an important person. You’ve just been confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

“And now you are going to monthly cafeteria committee meetings where literally the agenda is what happened to the good recipe for the chocolate chip cookies.”

The justices eat lunch together on the days when they hear oral arguments, Kagan explained.

“Somebody will say, ‘Who’s our representative to the cafeteria committee again?’ Like they don’t know, right? And then they’ll say, ‘This soup is very salty.’ And I’m like supposed to go fix it myself?”

-- “The third thing--this is the most important junior justice responsibility--I open the door,” she said.

Kagan said there are no exceptions to the rule of who answers the door.

“Literally, if I’m like in the middle of a sentence--let’s say it’s my turn to speak or something--and there’s a knock on the door, everybody will just stare at me, waiting for me to open the door,” Kagan said. “It’s like a form of hazing. So, that’s what I do, I open the door. Pronto.”
posted by futz at 6:47 PM on April 9, 2017 [56 favorites]

“Somebody will say, ‘Who’s our representative to the cafeteria committee again?’ Like they don’t know, right? And then they’ll say, ‘This soup is very salty.’ And I’m like supposed to go fix it myself?”

What. There are only 9 (8) of them. And they're all somewhere north of middle-class. Order takeout.
posted by dis_integration at 7:09 PM on April 9, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope she used the power of the cafeteria-purse to force Scalia to eat broccoli.
posted by XMLicious at 7:23 PM on April 9, 2017 [10 favorites]

> What. There are only 9 (8) of them. And they're all somewhere north of middle-class. Order takeout.

NO. Hell no in fact. I love that Supreme Court justices are on the cafeteria committee.

Okay, it's a lazy Sunday, I'll tell my short "why I am on the left rather than in the middle or the right" explanation. There are problems with it and it's maybe over-simplistic but it's the thing that for whatever reason I can't emotionally or intellectually abstract away from.

I realized when I moved away from home, and then again after the end of a relationship where I was (despite my desire not to be) a total housework mooch. The language of the realization was "If I don't clean the place where I live I don't really live there." I'm taking a slice of the experience of living there, the best slice, the sweet slice, and offloading the more difficult bitter part on someone else. This is I think why I've always been skeptical of housekeeping services — even aside from the racism and misogyny inherent in how our society has configured housekeeping jobs — because it seems like the abstraction of money is not commensurable in any way to the experience of handling the cleanup required to undo the mess generated by me living and breathing and shutting and pissing and fucking and eating and writing and playing games. And I can't shake the sense that everyone involved loses out when we try to commensurate things like "dealing with the consequences of life" and money.

And that is why I like that Supreme Court justices have cafeteria committee. I wish they all did it, and I wish they didn't understand doing it as a punishment. But I'm glad they have it. Doing the material work of wrangling out a menu could make them better justices. If we had a bunch of practices like this, a whole bunch, it might move justices to the left over their time on the bench, no matter where they started.

I know this line of reasoning can lead to like "rugged individualism" or whatever taken in the wrong direction. IMO taking it in the right direction means admitting that no matter how diligent we are, we'll never (metaphorically or literally) be able to fully clean up after ourselves, and so we have to deeply respect all of those who help us clean up our messes and help them clean up after their own and grant respect to others in accordance to how much and how well they help us clean up all of our mutual messes. and I know that if I really believed it as a general principle I'd pay much, much more attention to where my clothes are made and the way my digital things are made. And I probably wouldn't order takeout so much. but that "if I don't clean the place I live don't really live there" sentence is inescapable for me, at least right now.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:34 PM on April 9, 2017 [51 favorites]

tl;dr: all power to the people who don't think they're too good for cafeteria committee
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:40 PM on April 9, 2017 [37 favorites]

My head is getting dizzy from trying to keep track of all the Russian names. Normally a loyal lurker, I'd just like to say as others have that I'm eternally grateful for these threads. Oh, and there's this:

"Chabad of Port Washington, a Jewish community center on Long Island’s Manhasset Bay, sits in a squat brick edifice across from a Shell gas station and a strip mall. The center is an unexceptional building on an unexceptional street, save for one thing: Some of the shortest routes between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin run straight through it."
posted by kemrocken at 7:49 PM on April 9, 2017 [5 favorites]

On the plus side, NY now has free public college for people who's parents earn less than $100K. When someone asks how they intend to pay for it we can just say "one less airstrike on Syria".

(Seriously though, the yearly cost of these scholarships is 0.1% of the New York state budget).
posted by Talez at 8:36 PM on April 9, 2017 [21 favorites]

In the world of shitty government budget metaphors, that's the equivalent of the proverbial family making the New York State median average of $60,850/year paying $60.85 to send their kid to college debt free.
posted by Talez at 8:39 PM on April 9, 2017 [9 favorites]

This made me sad. I thought I was within the "insta'd" radius of DC for what a Russian/Chinese strike would be. Turns out I'm in the 2nd degree burns radius!

!FUN!

Then you'll be delighted to know that the nuke map is somewhat obsolete, because modern missiles contain multiple reentry vehicles that break out before explosion [example: an action shot from the old Peacekeeper design].

Modern nukes might well still get you, and you'd be likely to die in the firestorm while you were in shock in any case. Happy days.
posted by jaduncan at 8:40 PM on April 9, 2017

Okay, I hate to admit this, but I ended up watching "Say Yes to the Dress" over the weekend. For those of you not familiar with this American TV program, it's set in a high-end bridal boutique. Every episode two or three soon-to-be brides and their (typically stupidly large and mouthy) entourages come in and shop for wedding dresses. Quite often, the dresses are ridiculously expensive (as in you could buy a new car for the price of a dress, or a low mileage late model used car).

The reason I'm mentioning this here is because the current episode happened to feature Omarosa Whateverherlastnameis. That's right, the Apprentice contestant turned White House staffer. Her being on the show was a VERY BIG DEAL, at least according to the way the network (sleazy TLC) was promoting it.

The other thing I should mention is that they always show the price of the dresses. But for some reason, I didn't notice any prices being mentioned in the Omarosa segment. In her introduction, she indicated she really didn't have a price limit in mind, but she wanted something big and dramatic (or words to that effect). So I got curious and decided to see how much the dress was she ended up purchasing. I thought it was possible that I just missed the bit where they showed how much the dress was worth. Nope. Apparently not.

"Financial disclosures released last week revealed that Manigault was given an estimated $25,000 in merchandise from Kleinfeld Bridal for an appearance on the TLC show "Say Yes to the Dress."

How the heck is this even possible? Fine, she disclosed the "gift" but doesn't going on a TV show promoting Trump and the White House (which was absolutely done) in return for the favour of free merchandise bend or break some ethics guideline? Yeah, okay, I know the ethics handbook has been tossed out the window with this administration, but I thought maybe that was just for the top echelon of the Trump power chain, not the lower level worker bees.

For anybody who is really curious, there is an assortment of pictures of the pink wedding gown here.
posted by sardonyx at 8:52 PM on April 9, 2017 [20 favorites]

Cabinet-level snowflake Betsy DeVos burdens taxpayers more than any previous SecEd: Security for Betsy DeVos Costing Education Dept. Nearly $8M for 8 Months (WaPo)

The stepped up security began in February, following a threat assessment ordered by the U.S. Attorney General, the marshals service said. The agency only said it determined a threat to her safety exists, and did not elaborate.

Under an agreement between the marshals service and the Department of Education, the education department will reimburse the marshals service $7.78 million for security for the nearly eight months from Feb. 13 through September, and the protection will continue for the next four years.

If the current reimbursement rate remains the same, that totals to around $1 million per month.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:00 PM on April 9, 2017 [13 favorites]

On the SNL Kentucky Skit: SNL Skit about Kentucky is More Patronizing, Elitist Nonsense

As I watched the skit, I was disappointed but in no way surprised. The SNL skit is a perfect embodiment of the elitist liberal sentiment that helped Trump get elected in November.
...
But I make the distinction between Trump and Trump supporters. Because to me, most Trump supporters aren’t naive at all…instead they are people who are happy to finally have someone, anyone tell them their lives and areas of the country are important. For the last 50 years, virtually every national politician has forgotten about places like rural Kentucky. What used to be a description of a huge part of the electorate, the “Blue Collar Democrat”, is now almost a relic from the past. The reasons why are numerous, but I think the vast majority come down to one word…respect.
...
So long as working class people are not represented in Washington, either by corporate Republicans who only care about the top 1% (like Mitch McConnell) or candidates who speak with disdain about their culture (like Hillary Clinton), individuals will always gravitate to those who affirm their worth. This was Trump’s greatest trait and the reason his support in such areas was so strong.

Don't be fooled by the URL, Matt Jones is a Duke law grad and former law clerk on the DC Circuit, who hosts the most popular radio show in Kentucky (yes, about basketball, and other stuff). He was a serious candidate approached by the DNC to run against House Rep. Andy Barr and ultimately declined. It's almost a certainty he'll run as a Democrat in Kentucky sometime in the next few cycles.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]

My head is getting dizzy from trying to keep track of all the Russian names.

Yeah, we need one of those character lists like in the front of Clavell paperbacks
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:20 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, and Matt Jones' on air radio debate likely propelled Gov. Matt Bevin to victory. So, there's that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:21 PM on April 9, 2017

You know, I think that SNL skit is stupid and I understand his point, but this is just another version of the same hot take that's been going on for years now. I find the rehash as offensive as the sketch.

I think the vast majority come down to one word…respect.

Oh please tell me again how it's all about respect, wet-behind-the-ears white guy who went to Duke law.

He can take the "elitist liberal sentiment" nonsense, the casting of Clinton as one of the "candidates who speak with disdain about their culture," [?] and the idea that Trump affirmed anyone's worth, and go soak his head.

Trump didn't "affirm their worth," he asserted that they were more deserving than others. Part of the "culture" a lot of people hold so dear insists that women and men, foreigners and PoC, act certain ways, and they don't even make the slightest attempt to respect their/our cultures and beliefs.

These fragile notions of whiteness and masculinity that demand respect without earning it can please just rejoin all the other bullshit that revanchist patriarchs want to shove down our throats. I have treated such people with respect and common decency and cheek-turning my entire life, and honestly I think it might be time to throw some glitter on some goddamn Nazis and stop hearing privileged white men tell us how much it's all about respect. If they want some respect they can try fucking giving it for a change.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 PM on April 9, 2017 [90 favorites]

I mean he's telling me they're not stupid, they just want respect, even if they know the guy they respect is a liar and probably doesn't really respect them. And I'm like, yeah, now that you mention it, maybe they're actually just fucking stupid.

_{gonna go calm down now, this whole framing really pisses me right off}
posted by aspersioncast at 10:07 PM on April 9, 2017 [17 favorites]

> As I watched the skit, I was disappointed but in no way surprised. The SNL skit is a perfect embodiment of the elitist liberal sentiment that helped Trump get elected in November.

Jones continues:

The sentiment is what drove many long-time working class people in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania to switch sides and vote for Trump after years of voting for Democrats.

This is only true when "years of voting for Democrats" is taken to mean "voting for a specific Democrat who was also a once-in-a-generation political talent twice, once as a popular incumbent", and is not actually descriptive of any longer trend, as Ohio went for Bush twice. Was the Rust Belt winnable? Sure. Was there a large population of people who went for Donald Trump that would have totally gone for Hillary Clinton if only Democrats had less of a cultural blind spot about the people who live there? That's a much bolder claim, and frankly one I've seen scant evidence for.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:16 PM on April 9, 2017 [19 favorites]

"They hate you because you don't respect them," is the world's worst justification. The fact that it is so frequently trotted out, decade after decade, just shows how deeply damaging the patriarchy mind-virus is. Yet even so, there are moral limits to sympathy: just because their hate and incoherent rationalizations are the result of societally-inflicted damage, doesn't mean that they don't deserve our disgust. It's funny how often one finds oneself saying of the Trump supporters, No, I understand them perfectly well -- I just don't like them.
posted by chortly at 10:19 PM on April 9, 2017 [19 favorites]

"Don't be fooled by the URL, Matt Jones is a Duke law grad and former law clerk on the DC Circuit, who hosts the most popular radio show in Kentucky (yes, about basketball, and other stuff). He was a serious candidate approached by the DNC to run against House Rep. Andy Barr and ultimately declined. It's almost a certainty he'll run as a Democrat in Kentucky sometime in the next few cycles."

Ugh I went to law school with that guy and he is literally the worst, that's kind-of terrible news.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:19 PM on April 9, 2017 [46 favorites]

I'll just say he was into negging before negging was cool, and Tucker Max was a nicer dude. I have rarely disliked and distrusted someone so much.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:21 PM on April 9, 2017 [59 favorites]

Cabinet-level snowflake Betsy DeVos burdens taxpayers more than any previous SecEd: Security for Betsy DeVos Costing Education Dept. Nearly $8M for 8 Months (WaPo)

IIRC, Andrew Cuomo's "Zero tuition at state/community schools for families earning < 125k/yr" will cost, statewide $187M per year.

So, 4 years of Eric Price's Sister's ADDITIONAL Security ( just to point out the exceptionally ironic aspect ) = 48M USD == 1/4 of all NYS "Not wealthy" student tuition at state/community schools for a year.
posted by mikelieman at 10:52 PM on April 9, 2017 [9 favorites]

If they want some respect they can try fucking giving it for a change.

As I ask the 10 year old asking about some perk, "What have you done to EARN it?"
posted by mikelieman at 10:55 PM on April 9, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'll just say he was into negging before negging was cool,

We know what you meant but negging was never cool.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:10 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

Further in the tragicomedy that is Gorka:

Trump aide drew plan on napkin to partition Libya into three
Exclusive: Sebastian Gorka told proposal would be ‘the worst solution’ when he suggested it to senior European diplomat

A senior White House foreign policy official has pushed a plan to partition Libya, and once drew a picture of how the country could be divided into three areas on a napkin in a meeting with a senior European diplomat, the Guardian has learned.

Sebastian Gorka, a deputy assistant to Donald Trump under pressure over his past ties with Hungarian far-right groups, suggested the idea of partition in the weeks leading up to the US president’s inauguration, according to an official with knowledge of the matter. The European diplomat responded that this would be “the worst solution” for Libya.

Gorka is vying for the job of presidential special envoy to Libya [emphasis added] in a White House that has so far spent little time thinking about the country and has yet to decide whether to create such a post.

Changing standards: I'm aware it's odd that I'd take a Singapore Mark II where Gorka could have his exit as the quasi-open Nazi envoy to somewhere unimportant. Right now I'm not completely sure he won't end up as the envoy to somewhere that has an ongoing civil war, is on a major human trafficking route, and needs actual sensible assistance to avoid thousands upon thousands of deaths a year.
posted by jaduncan at 1:39 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

Why would he want to leave the White House to go to Libya? The only reason I can think of is he thinks he can get involved in some sweet oil deals.
posted by PenDevil at 1:48 AM on April 10, 2017

Like I touched on, McFarland just got sacked via being offered the ambassadorship to Singapore. If he's been told that the Nazi thing is finally approaching a bar to WH employment, he might be looking for a job.
posted by jaduncan at 2:06 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mod note: A couple deleted; let's not go through a complete new round of angry reactions on the latest installment of "Understanding Trump Voters Who Voted For Trump Because They Don't Get The [BLANK] They Deserve." We've had hundreds and hundreds of comments and whole threads about this, so unless we're covering some sort of new territory let's not fill up space with the same stuff. (Also, avoiding big-time Louis CK derail.)
posted by taz (staff) at 4:45 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

Politico: White House on edge as 100-day judgment nears

More than 30 Trump staffers piled into a conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjoining the White House, according to a half-dozen attendees who described the Tuesday meeting.

Mike Dubke, Trump’s communications director, and his deputy, Jessica Ditto, kicked off the discussion of how to package Trump’s tumultuous first 100 days by pitching the need for a “rebranding” to get Trump back on track.
“I think the president’s head would explode if he heard that,” one of the White House officials present said.

Staffers, including counselor Kellyanne Conway, were broken into three groups, complete with whiteboards, markers and giant butcher-block-type paper to brainstorm lists of early successes. One group worked in the hallway.

“It made me feel like I was back in 5th grade,” complained another White House aide who was there. “That’s the best way I could describe it.”

I know that there aren't really surprises in here, but something about a group of grown men and women gathering together to sell a shit sandwich just so their boss won't fly off the handle... yeesh.

I guess we really are trying to run our country like a business, albeit one with a toxic man-baby in charge.
posted by snortasprocket at 4:58 AM on April 10, 2017 [38 favorites]

Oh how far we've come from Dems running from Obamacare in elections.

TV ads slam Republicans over would-be Obamacare repeal

Moderate House Republicans who flirted with supporting the GOP's now-stalled Obamacare replacement will face attack ads in their districts this week for doing so. Save My Care, a coalition of left-leaning health care advocacy groups fighting to preserve Obamacare, is launching a seven-figure TV ad buy in seven competitive House districts across the country.

It's one of the first attempts by the left to weaponize the GOP's failed attempt to repeal Obamacare, and it comes as Republicans arrive at home for a two-week recess after trying and failing repeatedly to coalesce behind a health care plan.

"Congressman [Darrell] Issa promised to protect our health care, but when right-wing politicians tried to pass a disastrous health care repeal bill that raises cost and cuts coverage, Issa wouldn't oppose them," a male narrator intones as ominous music plays, in one version of the 30-second spot.

The ads target five Republican lawmakers from districts won by Hillary Clinton, including Issa, whose Orange County district Clinton carried by eight points. Other Republicans in Clinton-won districts include Arizona's Martha McSally, Colorado's Mike Coffman and Florida's Carlos Curbelo and California's David Valadao. Two lawmakers from districts carried won by President Donald Trump — Florida's Brian Mast and New Jersey's Tom MacArthur — will face similar ads.

posted by chris24 at 5:10 AM on April 10, 2017 [19 favorites]

That Politico article is hilarious in that it's all about how they're nervous that they have to do a good job getting the media to report nice things about the president... in an article full of leaked anecdotes about what a terrible president he is.

Dubke, who did not work on the campaign, told the assembled aides that international affairs would present a messaging challenge because the president lacks a coherent foreign policy. Three days later, Trump would order missile strikes in Syria in a reversal of years of previous opposition to such intervention.
posted by winna at 5:24 AM on April 10, 2017 [12 favorites]

Please no one tell these people that the first rule of being successful criminals is to stop snitching.
posted by winna at 5:25 AM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

Oh, and the Gorka thing is so clearly a leak to attempt to deny him the Libya job that I have to think that someone, somewhere, is worried that he might actually get it.
posted by jaduncan at 5:42 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

Mike Dubke, Trump’s communications director, and his deputy, Jessica Ditto

Jessica Ditto

it's like the writers aren't even trying anymore
posted by murphy slaw at 5:47 AM on April 10, 2017 [28 favorites]

I don't want war, guys. :(
posted by INFJ at 5:55 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

oh, and there's also this gem from that politico article:

Dubke told POLITICO he was disappointed White House staff would complain in the press rather than in real time.

trump's staff are communicating with each other through leaks and it's become so routine that Dubke is just disappointed
posted by murphy slaw at 5:56 AM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

‘People Just Flat-Out Lie’: Andrea Mitchell’s covered seven White Houses. Then came Trump. ‘I’ve never seen anything like this,’ she tells The Global Politico.

President Trump called her “Hillary Clinton’s P.R. person” when she got a scoop he didn’t like last week. Controversial Fox News host Bill O’Reilly called her “unruly” when she shouted questions at Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

Well, it turns out Andrea Mitchell, the veteran White House correspondent and host of “The Andrea Mitchell Report” on MSNBC, has some words for them too. In a new interview for The Global Politico, our weekly podcast on world affairs in the Trump era, Mitchell says that after covering every president since Jimmy Carter, Donald Trump is by far the most hostile to the press—and to the truth—she’s ever seen, with a White House staff using the briefing room as a daily disinformation machine and a president and secretary of state outright undermining the ability of reporters to do their job.

“It is totally sui generis. I’ve never seen anything like this,” Mitchell says. “I have never seen anything like this where people just flat-out lie. You know, black is white and white is black, and they mislead you. It's really disconcerting to see the podium in the White House briefing room being used to mislead or misdirect or obfuscate.”

And then there’s the matter of Tillerson and his outright refusal to talk to reporters like Mitchell who’ve spent a lifetime on the diplomatic beat – and won’t even be bringing the usual complement of journalists along when he heads to Moscow for a crucial first visit this week amid escalating tensions over Trump’s airstrike on Russia proxy Syria. “There is just an attempt, and it’s successful, to shut down not just me but The New York Times, The Washington Post, Agence France-Presse, CNN. I mean, we're all just shut out,” Mitchell says. “You should not be flying into Beijing without a press corps. You should not be going to Moscow without the press corps. It's wrong.”

Oh, and another thing she’d like to get straight: She’s not, she insists, some pro-Clinton hack. “I’ve covered seven presidents now,” Mitchell tells me, “and have not endeared myself to any of them. That’s the job. We are adversarial.”

posted by chris24 at 6:18 AM on April 10, 2017 [42 favorites]

More than 30 Trump staffers piled into a conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjoining the White House, according to a half-dozen attendees who described the Tuesday meeting.

Out of 30 people, 20% of them leaked it to Politico
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 AM on April 10, 2017 [74 favorites]

Neo-Nazis obviously aren't opposed to violence per se, so I presume he was acting on behalf of his sponsor.

The implication is that Spencer is sponsored by the Russians. Doubtful. Does he eat up RT propaganda with relish? Sure. What good American white Supremacist (or edgelord confused lefty) doesn't these days? But he's probably not a Russian agent.
posted by dis_integration at 6:27 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

There isn't a Nazi alive on the planet these days who isn't indirectly connected to Putin - it's how they roll now. I wouldn't be surprised at a more direct connection either.
posted by Artw at 6:29 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

This made me sad. I thought I was within the "insta'd" radius of DC for what a Russian/Chinese strike would be. Turns out I'm in the 2nd degree burns radius!

!FUN!

Then you'll be delighted to know that the nuke map is somewhat obsolete, because modern missiles contain multiple reentry vehicles that break out before explosion.

Modern nukes might well still get you, and you'd be likely to die in the firestorm while you were in shock in any case. Happy days.


Also factor in that Russia has ~2500 warheads on active, and around ~4500 total usable if there was time to ramp up the arsenal. (We have about the same.) That's MORE than enough to put a couple of craters on every city. Why so many? The war plans are more complicated than just "nuke the cities". In fact, aside from a few politically strategic targets like Manhattan and the Pentagon/White House; the targets are: Missile Silos. Airports. Sea ports. Bridges. Factories. And then a good line of them up the midwest to dump fallout across the breadbasket. The point is to wreck anything you could use after the exchange.

So, you're probably closer than you think to something with an X on it.

Go on, play with nukemap a little. You've got 2500 warheads. just TRY to use them all. Save yourself some time and don't worry about the 500 or so you have to dump on the dakotas for all the silos. I mean, we just used 60 tomahawks on *one shitty airbase* in Syria. This is how modern missile warfare works.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:45 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

I might be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that while Russia had a lot of nukes, most of them are comparatively smaller...?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:53 AM on April 10, 2017

I just put my one year old son down for a nap and the nuclear war talk is honestly stressing me the fuck out.

I understand it's relevant, somewhat, to current international affairs but can we please please please keep the narrative of how we're all going to die in a fireball if we're lucky to a dedicated thread? Please?
posted by lydhre at 6:54 AM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

jpfed: you may have that backwards. Russian missiles aren't (or weren't back in in the first cold war) all that accurate, compared to ours. So, theirs were/are larger yield so they can better wreck the thing they targeted. OUR warheads are tunable yield. (yeah. tunable. it's totally bananas.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:56 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

More than 30 Trump staffers piled into a conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjoining the White House, according to a half-dozen attendees who described the Tuesday meeting.

Out of 30 people, 20% of them leaked it to Politico

Thanks to the Trump administration, think of all the new jobs being created for stiletto sharpeners and stab-proof body armor manufacturers.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:00 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh, and another thing she’d like to get straight: She’s not, she insists, some pro-Clinton hack. “I’ve covered seven presidents now,” Mitchell tells me, “and have not endeared myself to any of them. That’s the job. We are adversarial.”

I can't even believe folks are advancing this argument; she's married to Alan Greenspan, FFS.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:02 AM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

the nuclear war talk is honestly stressing me

On my journey into work on the bus this morning, a mother was reading the newspaper with her (about) 6 year old son. Looking at the headlines, she said:

'Oh god, there's going to be a war!'

The boy replied:

'If there is, can you tell me so that I can stay at home please?'

There was something so touching and sad about that, that it has affected my whole day.
posted by Myeral at 7:03 AM on April 10, 2017 [38 favorites]

Mod note: Yeah, y'all, maybe just do the math on how much "let's constantly speculatively contemplate nuclear scenarios in-thread" is actually going to help anything or improve anyone's mental state and consider taking it to a sidechannel if a few of you are genuinely enthusiastic about the topic.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:03 AM on April 10, 2017 [23 favorites]

Mike Dubke, Trump’s communications director, and his deputy, Jessica Ditto

It's probably been remarked, but it's like all these names were invented by Thomas Pynchon as little subtextual winks at the reader. [on preview murphyslaw beat me to it.]
posted by aspersioncast at 7:08 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

On my journey into work on the bus this morning, a mother was reading the newspaper with her (about) 6 year old son. Looking at the headlines, she said:

'Oh god, there's going to be a war!'

Pushing through the market square
So many mothers sighing
News had just come over
We had five years left to cry in
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:12 AM on April 10, 2017 [14 favorites]

Texas plans to designate official state gun along with other weapons

Surely the M-1 Carbine, or maybe the Carcano Model 91/38?
posted by leotrotsky at 7:24 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

A new acquaintance is the son of an Air Force pilot who was at one time stationed in a missle silo. We had a conversation about this on Saturday and he helped reassure me that we are a long way from impending nukes.

He added that the nuclear football is only something that the President uses to authorize the use of nukes - the actual decision TO use them is still left up to the military itself, and he says that the conditions to use nukes do not now exist, and that the military knows that.

I don't recall the details in full. But I will say that I have always been screamingly paranoid about this kind of thing and he left me feeling relieved, so I offer that as reassurance.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:26 AM on April 10, 2017 [15 favorites]

the actual decision TO use them is still left up to the military itself,

I believe that's completely untrue outside of a technical sense. Trump is the commander in chief. The military does what he says.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

The upshot is that McConnell drew a protective fence around Russian efforts to sabotage Clinton’s candidacy, by characterizing any effort to stop it as partisan politicization of intelligence at Trump’s expense.

Oh, goody. Then I hope we get to see McConnell in the dock for treason along with the rest of the Trump crew.
posted by Gelatin at 7:31 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

neo-nazi richard spencer punched in the face and then glitterbombed, again

Dude's gonna start looking like Scott Sterling after a while.

"Come on, Richard! Tell us more about who to hate!"
*Spencer desperately tries to crawl out of camera range*
posted by leotrotsky at 7:32 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

We haven't heard from Kellyanne Conway for a whole now, have we? Maybe she took a comms job with United Airlines given how well they're doing over there.
posted by zachlipton at 7:38 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

WaPo's got some stuff worth sharing today...

-How Bannon’s multimedia machine drove a movement and paid him millions

-Marine Le Pen: France ‘not responsible’ for deporting Jews during Holocaust

-The Soviet Union fought the Cold War in Nicaragua. Now Putin’s Russia is back.

-Trump officials tell Russia to drop its support for Syria’s Assad

From that last link:

"Several analysts said that Assad has humiliated Putin by using chemical weapons despite Russia’s guarantee that Syria’s stockpiles would be whisked away. Moscow’s interest in getting sanctions eased is greater than its loyalty to Assad. And that could provide maneuvering room for Tillerson."

Bonus non-WaPo link...

-Cruise Missile Hypocrisy by Sen Chris Murphy, who I am really starting to like. (I think I signed one of his online petitions and got on his mailing list that way, so I've been reading a bunch of analysis pieces he's published, and they all seem spot on to me.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:40 AM on April 10, 2017 [12 favorites]

I can't even believe folks are advancing this argument; she's married to Alan Greenspan, FFS

Not that she shouldn't have opinions, but back when I watched cable news and MSNBC I always thought this fact was under-disclosed.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:41 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

I can't even believe folks are advancing this argument; she's married to Alan Greenspan, FFS

Covered pretty explicitly in the article.

But though she soon became well-known for her willingness to ask tough questions—the word “aggressive” appears in every article ever written about her journalism—Mitchell has also evolved, over the years, into an insider, an emblem of the Washington swamp that Trump promised to drain in his campaign. When Mark Leibovich wrote his bestselling book This Town about the cozy, at times unholy, nexus between the Beltway power elite and the journalists who covered them, Mitchell was a star case in point, whose power-schmoozing at the side of her husband, former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, led the Washington Post to call her “a conflict of interest in human form.”

All of which may make it all the more surprising that Andrea Mitchell hasn’t gone off sulking in a corner over the Trump presidency or simply complaining about the lack of White House access these days, as many others have been reduced to, at the Georgetown salons where she and Greenspan remain a staple of A-list dinner parties. Unless you know her, that is.

posted by chris24 at 7:42 AM on April 10, 2017

this is the best comment i've seen on the richard spencer situation so far:

Really enjoying that Richard Spencer’s whole thing is “Nazi who is constantly, enormously owned”
-- @markpopham

posted by murphy slaw at 7:50 AM on April 10, 2017 [19 favorites]

Apropos of state guns and launching nukes, no love for the M-28 Davy Crockett recoilless rifle? It's a ground-based short-range nuke launcher! It can kill its own operator if fired into an adverse wind or at the wrong angle! Truly, the crowning marvel of the US's ill-conceived tactical-nukes program.
posted by jackbishop at 7:59 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

-The Soviet Union fought the Cold War in Nicaragua. Now Putin’s Russia is back.

The United States government funded the Contras in Nicaragua, who operated death squads responsible for the vast majority of civilian casualties in the conflict and also happened to run huge amounts of cocaine into the US to fund themselves further (see also: Iran-Contra, the crack cocaine epidemic). That the Washington Post would frame this as the Evil Soviet Union Meddling Where It Doesn't Belong and characterize Nicaragua with the same "sphere of influence" concept that people deride when applied to Ukraine pretty much says it all.
posted by indubitable at 8:00 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

-The Soviet Union fought the Cold War in Nicaragua. Now Putin’s Russia is back.

Because Nicaragua prospers so well when it becomes a proxy war. Fucking Ortega.
posted by corb at 8:13 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

Mitchell is no paragon of journalistic virtue, but she's hardly a hack. Part of the DC establishment or no*, she tends to ask tough questions.

_{*yes. I mean seriously, Greenspan. Plus several other things. But it's pretty rich for anyone to even report what motherfucking O'Reilly says about her style of questioning.}
posted by aspersioncast at 8:19 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

What you notice is how easily the media (and we) make the dangerous move from "we don't want Russia messing around in our elections because it makes them less democratic; similarly, we should not be messing around in others' elections, even though we do" to "Russian interference is bad because Russia is bad and we are good".

The US role in South and Central America has been disgusting and murderous pretty much from the get-go, whether we opposed unappealing local regimes or basically good ones.

The USSR, like the US, was obviously driven by a mixture of power politics and the desire to export its values, and its values were a mixed bag. So as a result, they (like the US) sometimes supported regimes that were objectively popular and fairly decent for governments and sometimes supported regimes that were objectively unpopular and horrible.

This fundamentally does not matter about what the US should do. We should not have worked to overthrow Allende and install Pinochet; we should not have backed our guys in United Fruit; we should not have trained paramilitaries at the School of the Americas; we should not have winked at the murders of peasants and nuns and union organizers and indigenous people because they were murdered by our guys; we should not have turned back political refugees even though admitting them meant admitting that they were fleeing from our guys.

We don't need to decide whether the USSR was legit supporting a glorious socialist regime or cynically supporting a bunch of anti-democratic commies. We know that undermining elections, training paramilitaries and supporting the murder of dissidents are wrong actions, no matter who the other people are.

"Neither Washington nor Moscow" is the only left position that doesn't leave you saying "murdering dissidents is okay as long as the murderers are our guys".
posted by Frowner at 8:26 AM on April 10, 2017 [50 favorites]

From the original Spencer glitter bomb link:

When he was getting into the cab he was allegedly pulled out by counter-protesters, punched, and glitter bombed. In a video posted on Periscope shortly there after, Spencer said what happened was that Antifa disallowed him to get in his ‘getaway’ car and the police instructed him to get in a cab. Once he was in one the cab driver (who Spencer mocked for being of Indian origin) got out of the cab, frightened of the ensuing protesters, and Spencer had to take off running.

The man can't stop being racist for 5 minutes, even when there is a mob of protesters after him and his ass is on the line. Jesus.
posted by zabuni at 8:30 AM on April 10, 2017 [65 favorites]

Because Nicaragua prospers so well when it becomes a proxy war. Fucking Ortega.

Could you imagine how different history would be for Latin America if blow was legal?
posted by Talez at 8:35 AM on April 10, 2017

The senators who voted against Gorsuch were elected with 22 million more votes than the senators who installed him on the Supreme Court.
posted by chris24 at 8:49 AM on April 10, 2017 [79 favorites]

futz: Around midweek, Mick Mulvaney's Office of Management and Budget will send a "guidance" letter to federal agencies ordering them to create plans to make themselves significantly smaller and less costly. It's part of Mulvaney's effort to make the federal government more efficient.

This is your unasked for reminder from a public servant: making government smaller does not make it more efficient, unless you also change what it does and how it does those things.

Because budgets are largely based on getting certain work done, the better route would be to look at changing organization requirements as a path to scaling back the size of government. It's not like federal agencies are awash in funds and just spinning in their comfy chairs, thinking of ways to spend down their mountains of money.

So we're back to the idiocy of "kill two regulations for every new one" non-functional nonsense - there are laws in place that mandate what the government does, and how. So first you have to do the boring, tedious work of making and passing new laws.

What do you get from rushed attempts at smaller budgets with no changes in laws? More chaos, contrary to the stated goal of making government more efficient.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on April 10, 2017 [37 favorites]

The senators who voted against Gorsuch were elected with 22 million more votes than the senators who installed him on the Supreme Court.

I mean, that's not how that works, but okay.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

I can't even believe folks are advancing this argument; she's married to Alan Greenspan, FFS

I'm OK with criticizing Andrea Mitchell for how she does her job, but not for who she's married to.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:56 AM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

Once he was in one the cab driver (who Spencer mocked for being of Indian origin) got out of the cab, frightened of the ensuing protesters, and Spencer had to take off running.

The man can't stop being racist for 5 minutes, even when there is a mob of protesters after him and his ass is on the line. Jesus.

And really, isn't teeing off on Indian cabbies kind of hacky, bush-league racism? It's literally the airplane food/blind dates/Jack Nicholson impressions of racism. You'd think that a supposed professional racist like Spencer would bring more original material to this sort of thing. This preppy dimwit's racism is barely distinguishable from my doofus Republican uncle's email forwards.
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:00 AM on April 10, 2017 [11 favorites]

I mean, that's not how that works, but okay.

Right, but just because the Senate is a constitutionally gerrymandered, malapportioned abomination that subverts the meaning of democracy and only grows more anti-democratic as population disparities between states increase, doesn't mean we shouldn't say so.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:00 AM on April 10, 2017 [50 favorites]

Because budgets are largely based on getting certain work done, the better route would be to look at changing organization requirements as a path to scaling back the size of government. It's not like federal agencies are awash in funds and just spinning in their comfy chairs, thinking of ways to spend down their mountains of money.

You think too much like a liberal. The implication in Mulvaney's letter is to figure out what functions you can jettison. That way when the people come for the politician's heads those politicians can point to the bureaucrats and tell the populace that they took all their favourite services and programs.

It's like you can't tell a truck driver to speed and violate working hours but you try to tell them they have to do Cheyenne to South Bend in a single 14 hour day even though it's a 15 hour drive. How the truck driver accomplishes that impossibility is none of the company's business.

And since Gorsuch was confirmed it probably will be legal to do these driver shenanigans again fairly shortly.
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on April 10, 2017 [14 favorites]

Right, but just because the Senate is a constitutionally gerrymandered, malapportioned abomination that subverts the meaning of democracy and only grows more anti-democratic as population disparities between states increase, doesn't mean we shouldn't say so.

I don't know what you mean by that. Each state has two senators.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:01 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

The senators who voted against Gorsuch were elected with 22 million more votes than the senators who installed him on the Supreme Court.

I mean, that's not how that works, but okay.

Obviously not, but I think an important point against those who claim we live in a center-right nation, who try to claim the moral high ground after forcing through a extremist, who denied Garland a vote so "the people could decide".
posted by chris24 at 9:02 AM on April 10, 2017 [14 favorites]

> I don't know what you mean by that. Each state has two senators.

Land doesn't vote, people do.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:02 AM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

Land doesn't vote, people do.

Sure, but our Constitution and branches of government set up the Senate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:03 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

Reuters: Kremlin, angry at Syria missile strike, says Putin won't meet Tillerson.
posted by jedicus at 9:04 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Sure, but our Constitution and branches of government set up the Senate.

Are you just being willfully obtuse here? You're stating what is, while others are making an argument about what ought to be. Repeatedly going back to what is doesn't constitute a counterargument to what we're saying ought to be.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2017 [18 favorites]

Kremlin, angry at Syria missile strike, says Putin won't meet Tillerson

Methinks the despot doth protest too much.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:08 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's not like federal agencies are awash in funds and just spinning in their comfy chairs, thinking of ways to spend down their mountains of money.

Well, you know, except for DoD where there is a scramble at the end of the year to burn all the unused money.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:12 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maybe they just don't have a place for him to nap?
posted by Artw at 9:12 AM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

> I don't know what you mean by that. Each state has two senators.

fry_dont_know_if.jpg
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:13 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't know what you mean by that. Each state has two senators.

Not to mention DC, Puerto Rico, and other areas where Americans pay taxes yet remain unrepresented by Senators.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:14 AM on April 10, 2017 [23 favorites]

Kremlin, angry at Syria missile strike, says Putin won't meet Tillerson

OnceUponATime: Methinks the despot doth protest too much.

Methinks they're putting on a show. "Oh no, we're not coordinating on these atrocities. Noooo, not at all. *Psst, Tillerson, don't forget to get your drink at the bar.*" "What? Oh right, my drink, with it's drink napkin. Right."
posted by filthy light thief at 9:18 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

Right, but just because the Senate is a constitutionally gerrymandered, malapportioned abomination that subverts the meaning of democracy and only grows more anti-democratic as population disparities between states increase, doesn't mean we shouldn't say so.

I always find it a little weird when people talk about this, because they're generally approaching it from the end instead of the beginning.

The fact that each state has two senators is what allowed the Constitution to be written in the first place, the reason the smaller states felt comfortable moving past the Articles of Confederation into a system where the federal government held more power. They were comfortable giving up their autonomy and power because they knew there would always be a check on the larger, more populous states, using their demographic weight to bully them around.

Without - from the very beginning - an insistence that in certain matters, each and every state in the union and before that, the colonies, were equal, there might well have been no Revolution at all, as smaller colonies would have decided they didn't gain much from the new setup. America was founded on the basis that each state - each region - would be able to protect its own interests.

As new states came into the union, they came into it with that understanding. Many of them were extremely small when they arrived. Wyoming, for example, was last or nearly last in every single year since it became a state. This isn't a sudden, new circumstance. It has always been this way, and was this way by design, and is the only reason we have a bunch of states in the first place.
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

Timely piece from WaPo: The Senate may be developing an electoral college issue

Theoretically, a bill or nomination could pass out of the Senate with the support of senators representing only 16.2 percent of the population. If the two senators from the 25 smallest states agreed to support a bill — and Vice President Pence concurred — the senators from the other 25 states and the 270 million people they represent are out of luck. (Residents of D.C., of course, are always out of luck.)

posted by melissasaurus at 9:21 AM on April 10, 2017 [46 favorites]

i wonder how much the ratio of the population between the most populous and least populous state has changed since the original 13 states
posted by murphy slaw at 9:24 AM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

As new states came into the union, they came into it with that understanding. Many of them were extremely small when they arrived. Wyoming, for example, was last or nearly last in every single year since it became a state. This isn't a sudden, new circumstance. It has always been this way, and was this way by design, and is the only reason we have a bunch of states in the first place.

You say this like its a good thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:25 AM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

i wonder how much the ratio of the population between the most populous and least populous state has changed since the original 13 states

Ha, yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I'm trying to google the state by state population in 1789, but struggling. But I would bet the difference between the most populous state and the least wasn't 67 times bigger (CA 40m, WY 600k).
posted by chris24 at 9:27 AM on April 10, 2017

i wonder how much the ratio of the population between the most populous and least populous state has changed since the original 13 states

Virginia had 747K, including slaves, in the 1790 census. Delaware was the smallest at 59K total. That makes a 12.6:1 ratio.

In 2010, California had 37.2M, Wyoming had 563K, or a 66:1 ratio.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:29 AM on April 10, 2017 [44 favorites]

i wonder how much the ratio of the population between the most populous and least populous state has changed since the original 13 states

Ha, yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I'm trying to google the state by state population in 1789, but struggling. But I would bet the difference between the most populous state and the least wasn't 67 times bigger (CA 40m, WY 600k).

It was 12:1
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

According to this, the largest state was Virginia (821,000) and the smallest was Delaware (60,000), so the ratio was roughly 13.7:1
posted by murphy slaw at 9:30 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

This isn't a sudden, new circumstance. It has always been this way, and was this way by design, and is the only reason we have a bunch of states in the first place.

The old way doesn't seem to be working anymore (and, really, didn't work so well for most of the population back then either). Maybe we need some sort of Senate rule that works similar to "vote and value" clauses in shareholder agreements: to pass something you need the votes of 51 of the Senators plus Senators representing 50%+1 of the population (as of the last census).
posted by melissasaurus at 9:31 AM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

Honestly, while I don't think states should be broken up simply because of population, I do think there are some states - California is a perfect example, there are a few others - where they are extremely large in size and have essentially different regions within them. For example, Eastern and Western Washington consistently vote differently and kind of hate each other. I'm not saying it will happen, because power acts to reinforce more power, but I'm not sure why they shouldn't be able to secede and apply for new statehood. Same thing with upstate and downstate New York, maybe, or various areas of Texas.

If you want to keep things even, maybe make the trade such that it keeps the D/R constant - allow DC statehood, but let Eastern Washington secede and gain statehood as well, for example. I feel like that's the only way it would ever actually get off the ground.
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on April 10, 2017

Note that Virginia's 1790 population includes 292,627 slaves, 3/5 of whom counted towards Virginia's seats in the House of Representatives but couldn't vote themselves.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:34 AM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

The fact that each state has two senators is what allowed the Constitution to be written in the first place, the reason the smaller states felt comfortable moving past the Articles of Confederation into a system where the federal government held more power. They were comfortable giving up their autonomy and power because they knew there would always be a check on the larger, more populous states, using their demographic weight to bully them around.

The same can be said for the constitution providing legalized slavery. Just because something was necessary or even a good idea (not saying that slavery was a good idea but that the compromises necessary to get the constitution passed probably was in the balance) 200some years ago doesn't mean that it continues to be a good idea in the present.

As shown above, the disparity between the small and large states' power in the Senate has grown substantially and as far as most of the people here are concerned problematically since then.
posted by Candleman at 9:34 AM on April 10, 2017 [19 favorites]

"Several analysts said that Assad has humiliated Putin by using chemical weapons despite Russia’s guarantee that Syria’s stockpiles would be whisked away. Moscow’s interest in getting sanctions eased is greater than its loyalty to Assad. And that could provide maneuvering room for Tillerson."

Aaaand all of this Syria nonsense clicks into place. Of course it's about giving cover for lifting sanctions, that's a situation where it makes perfect sense for Trump and Putin to play different "sides" because they can give sweetheart deals to each other in the treaty negotiations nominally for the benefit of stability in Syria, and just watch, the Syrian people just get left out in the cold at the end of it after serving their purpose.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:38 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

If Republicans* want to say "Hey, that's how the system works" then fine. But let's stop pretending their concerns are democratic or the 'will of the people.'

* not addressing this at corb
posted by chris24 at 9:40 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think the crux of this dispute over senate representation is the question of whether or not providing a genealogy of a situation thereby provides a justification for that situation.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:41 AM on April 10, 2017 [11 favorites]

aspersioncast: Does someone want to do an FPP on the Main Street thing? It's interesting but good lord is it a big-ass derail.

Sorry I didn't put this together sooner, but for those who wish to discuss Main Street, USA tropes and realities, here's a thread for you.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:48 AM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

It has always been this way, and was this way by design, and is the only reason we have a bunch of states in the first place.

Yeah, but fast forward another hundred years, and if the under-representation of large states gets even more extreme, the same compromise that originally made small states willing to join the union may eventually make large states unwilling to stay in it.

(I said a hundred years. And I said if it gets even more extreme I do not think this is at all a likely or desirable outcome in the near future. We can fix our problems right now without blowing up the constitution, which would invite even bigger problems. I hope that the political polarization which makes the representation issues so acute won't endure for 100 years! We need to figure out how to deal with propaganda in the new media age of cable TV and internet, and then hopefully the polarization will be reduced, and we can figure out tweaks to the current system where needed by consensus.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:50 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

maybe what is required is an aggressive government program of land grants to grow the population of wyoming until the 1790 ratio is restored
posted by murphy slaw at 9:51 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

More than 30 Trump staffers piled into a conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjoining the White House, according to a half-dozen attendees who described the Tuesday meeting.

Leakers? We got six of 'em, pal!
posted by Gelatin at 10:05 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

If the Democrats have guts, whenever (hopefully) they retake control of Congress and the presidency, they will propose to make all the remaining insular areas (Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands) and DC states with full representation, including two Senators apiece.

The idea that the federal government is a creation of the states sort of made sense back in the 1780s, but realistically -- even though few will admit it -- it doesn't really apply to any of the states admitted since then, except maybe Hawaii, as they are essentially created by the federal government. I mean, the reason that the Dakota Territory was admitted as two states instead of one was in order to guarantee extra Senators and Electoral College votes for the Republicans (granted, 1880s Republicans were a bit different from today's brand).
posted by dhens at 10:11 AM on April 10, 2017 [18 favorites]

If the Democrats have guts, whenever (hopefully) they retake control of Congress and the presidency, they will propose to make all the remaining insular areas (Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands) and DC states with full representation, including two Senators apiece.

And end the legislative filibuster to make it happen. You want to play with the rules, Republicans? OK, let's dance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:13 AM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

In fact, aside from a few politically strategic targets like Manhattan and the Pentagon/White House; the targets are: Missile Silos. Airports. Sea ports. Bridges. Factories. And then a good line of them up the midwest to dump fallout across the breadbasket. The point is to wreck anything you could use after the exchange.

Back in the '80s I played a role-playing game called Twilight: 2000, which was set just at the end of World War III, in which NATO and the Warsaw Pact had both pretty much battered each other to oblivion, including a limited tactical / strategic nuclear exchange. But the thing the setting postulated as really messing everyone up was the fact that both sides targeted oil infrastructure, so there was hardly any remaining. Vehicles, when they were operable, ran on ethanol, and air power was a thing of the past. Which also meant food distribution networks, to say nothing of the rest of the economy, basically collapsed, and civilization was on the verge of collapse.

I wish I wasn't thinking of that grim setting more and more these days.
posted by Gelatin at 10:15 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

This is pretty crazy. I'm sure the DOJ thinks this is appropriate. I don't.
posted by H. Roark at 10:36 AM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

Obviously not, but I think an important point against those who claim we live in a center-right nation, who try to claim the moral high ground after forcing through a extremist, who denied Garland a vote so "the people could decide".

The funny thing is the people did decide, and they voted by an over 3 million vote margin in favor of the folks who wanted Merrick Garland confirmed.

Oh, you didn't actually mean the people, you meant the undemocratic electoral college. Well fuck you, Mitch.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:36 AM on April 10, 2017 [27 favorites]

If the Democrats have guts, whenever (hopefully) they retake control of Congress and the presidency, they will propose to make all the remaining insular areas (Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands) and DC states with full representation, including two Senators apiece.

And end the legislative filibuster to make it happen. You want to play with the rules, Republicans? OK, let's dance.

Yep, and this is a ratchet that the Republicans can't easily undo. They either need to subdivide their existing states or disenfranchise the new ones. Good luck with either of those.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:39 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

What do you get from rushed attempts at smaller budgets with no changes in laws? More chaos, contrary to the stated goal of making government more efficient.

Well of course. The stated goal and the actual goal are two different things. The idea isn't to make gov't more efficient, it's to make it less effective. They have to scale back services and service standards to make their budget. There are fewer people doing the same work so, by necessity, quality drops. That reinforces the perception that government is an inefficient, ineffective nightmare of bureaucracy in the minds of the voters. Then you can keep getting elected as someone trying to "reform" the system which we obviously need because have you had to deal with the government or anything ever? It's a nightmare!

They're trying to make the government as shitty as everyone thinks it is so they can sell it off and pocket the proceeds.

I got into a facebook debate with someone who told me that I was stupid for getting a permit when I finished my basement because now I have to have the government inspect everything and it will cost me so much more money and I'll never pass inspection and it's generally the stupidest thing anyone has ever done ever. Instead, I should have hired a contractor for a few hundred bucks who could have answered all my questions and told me what I needed to know to make sure everything was done correctly and safely.

The cost of the permit was $130. I had three different inspectors, two of them were specialists (electrical and insulation). The people at city hall who helped me with the permit pointed me towards some resources to get me started and pointed out their contact number imploring me to please call them at any time with questions about how to do something. I called several times and they were very helpful.

The inspectors were all very patient, knowledgeable, and helpful. City hall told me that the inspectors job is to help me pass the inspection and they really lived up to that description. There were a couple of things that I needed to fix and every single time the inspector and I worked together to figure out a solution that would work without having to re-do a bunch of work and spend more money.

In short, I got exactly what the right-wing dumbass on facebook told me I should get but I got it directly from the gov't and I'm certain they did a better job for less money than any private contractor I could have hired to perform the same service.

That experience has led me to the belief that more "small government" types simply have false preconceived notions of what it's like to deal with the government. At least the Bloomington, MN City government has been consistently top-notch. I've interacted with several departments for various reasons and I come away impressed every single time.
posted by VTX at 10:39 AM on April 10, 2017 [68 favorites]

They were comfortable giving up their autonomy and power because they knew there would always be a check on the larger, more populous states, using their demographic weight to bully them around.

Part of the problem is that the law capping the number of representatives hasn't changed in a century, so the situation is very much the other way around -- less populous states have relatively more representation in the House too.

If we set the number of people a Representative represents to the population of Wyoming, we'd have something like 600 Representatives, and populous states like New York, California, Illinois (and, yes, Texas and Virginia and Ohio) would receive more of a voice. (And the Electoral College would change accordingly, too.) Then the anti-democratic nature of the Senate wouldn't sting as much.
posted by Gelatin at 10:39 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

The stated goal and the actual goal are two different things.

Oh, yeah. And I wish the media would get that fact thru its collective head for a change, instead of going with their perennial "Republicans say they want to reduce waste, fraud, and abuse, while critics say the cuts will reduce vital services" story line.
posted by Gelatin at 10:45 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

Spicey time. Who is on coffee and snack barrel of cheese puffs duty today?

Fixed.
posted by Gelatin at 10:47 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've thought for a long time now that unless we fix the Senate it'll mean the end of the USA. Not soon, but eventually.

Because the situation right now is intolerable in a lot of ways: not only are the small population right wing states dictating to the majority, not only are the low population right wing states taking more in federal benefits than they pay in federal taxes, they're also being utter dicks about it and treating their benefactors like shit.

The second is totally fine, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and so are most people in the economically productive states which pay for the broke states. There's nothing at all wrong with those of us who do well helping those of us who don't do so well. I remember back when Grexit was a concern someone from one of the wealthier EU nations saying that no one would tolerate a permanent bailout. And I was thinking "dude, we've got that in the USA, we call it the Red States".

The first isn't so fine, any situation where the minority gets to dictate to the majority is a problem for a nation that is theoretically a representative democracy. The existence of the filibuster makes it even worse (if you run the numbers, in an absurd extreme it'd be possible for Senators representing less than 20% of the population to filibuster a bill).

The third, the belligerent and aggressively meanspirited attitude from the Rural Moocher States is what, I think, is really driving a lot of the resentment from the populous Blue States. It's bad enough they take our money and lord it over us, but that might be semi-tolerable. But them declaring themselves to be "Real America" and us to be vile anti-American traitors is infuriating a lot of people in the populous Blue States.

I think that attitude, more than the actual facts of systemic under representation of liberal America, may be what really provokes the crisis. People aren't especially rational, and they'll put up with a lot of impersonal, systemic, shit but they often won't put up with more personal, individually insulting, shit.

I don't think the Republicans can stop the attacks on Liberal America either, to a large extent that demonization of the productive parts of America is the only way they get elected... So we're stuck in a bad place where, just like in the 1860's, we're going to have to pay a huge price in blood or treasure for a fucked up bad bargain made by your Founders.

Because corb is right: the Senate is the only reason a lot of states joined up. But, protecting slavery in the Constitution was also the only reason a lot of states joined up. Neither is right, proper, moral, or good. And that bad deal made in desperation is going to wind up costing us a lot.

California, New York, all those places shouldn't be putting up with this shit, and its a miracle they have for so long. Sooner or later, and I think Trump is pushing us towards sooner, it's going to need to end. The minority in mostly empty rural states have had their fun, running roughshod over everyone else and imposing their Christofascist BS, but I think we've about reached the breaking point and they're going to discover that a majority, as they've just demonstrated, can ram through just about anything if they're determined enough.

My hope is that we can solve this with just some creative "reinterpretation" of the Constitution, some stretching of ambiguous points, and maybe an amendment or two rammed through via threat of economic harm and massive behind the scenes arm twisting and outright bribery. Because the alternative is the dissolution of the USA and the formation of a new nation with the Rural Red State people facing a vastly worse deal.
posted by sotonohito at 10:49 AM on April 10, 2017 [50 favorites]

I mean, the reason that the Dakota Territory was admitted as two states instead of one was in order to guarantee extra Senators and Electoral College votes for the Republicans
I really wanted to edit "The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck" to "The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck because there were too many cocksuckers in Yankton" but I restrained myself.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:50 AM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

Spicey time. Who is on coffee and snack duty today?

Could you not? Please?
posted by indubitable at 10:52 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

California, New York, all those places shouldn't be putting up with this shit,

I don't know what it's like in California, but NY has tons of corruption at the state and local level. It becomes a contest over who is putting up with more shit from whom?
posted by Melismata at 10:52 AM on April 10, 2017

Leaked Email: President Trump's Modeling Agency Is Shutting Down - Business partners are told it's over for one of Trump's most prized businesses.
posted by futz at 10:59 AM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

This is pretty crazy. I'm sure the DOJ thinks this is appropriate. I don't.

That link is titled What Would the Cops Look Like If You Lived in a Futuristic Authoritarian Police State?, a short article on Gizmodo that links to a Facebook video from Lake County Sheriff’s Office in Florida. The video is titled, “A message from the Lake County Sheriff’s Office Community Engagement Unit,” and, based on the screenshot (I can't load FB just now), it features an angry looking sheriff flanked by four men in ski masks, long sleeved Sheriff shirts, Sheriff-labeled flak vests, and three of the four white-looking thugs sheriff deputy dudes have sunglasses on, to really heighten the "Community Engagement" that they're going for. I hope it's a message about the upcoming Sheriff's Easter Egg Hunt and Prayer Service (which is not a thing, as far as I know).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:00 AM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

It is specifically prohibited in Article 5 to amend the constitution to change equal representation in the Senate (without the state's consent), and of course any constitutional amendment (including whatever some crazy Article 5 convention would propose) requires 3/4 of the states to approve it before taking effect anyway.

States have split before. You need both state and Congressional approval. Supposedly Texas has always had approval to do this, but has never wanted to (unless you count the Compromise of 1850).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:01 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's very rare that you hear the word "sheriff" in conjunction with anything good, isn't it? This does not buck the trend.
posted by Artw at 11:02 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

the law capping the number of representatives hasn't changed in a century, so the situation is very much the other way around -- less populous states have relatively more representation in the House too.

This is only true of the extremely low-population states, below the deserving-1-rep threshold (ND, VT, WY), in which we always round up. Above that threshold the problem isn't that small states are overrepresented, it's that they're massively disproportionately represented, and that disproportion cuts both ways. Montana, hovering near the 2-rep cutoff, is horrifically under-represented, with 1 rep for its 989K people (as of 2010), while the slightly more populous Rhode Island gets 2 reps, so one rep per 526K people, which is wildly overrepresented. Smaller states simply get a more extreme deviation from the norm, and that deviation can be up or down. Incidentally (since I have a spreadsheet for this, thanks to a class I regularly teach with an apportionment module), the most disproportionate states, in terms of representation, are Rhode Island (34.6% better represented than the national average), Montana (28.4% worse), Wyoming (25.7% better), Delaware (21.1% worse), and Nebraska (16.4% better). So while small states have more extreme deviation from the norm, that deviation isn't at all consistent.
posted by jackbishop at 11:08 AM on April 10, 2017 [14 favorites]

Breitbart Editors Told Staff To Stop Writing Stories Criticizing Kushner
posted by futz at 11:08 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

futz: Leaked Email: President Trump's Modeling Agency Is Shutting Down - Business partners are told it's over for one of Trump's most prized businesses.

One of President Donald Trump's favorite businesses will go the way of Trump Steaks, Trump University, Trump Airlines, and Trump Magazine
...
Over the weekend, Corinne Nicolas, president of Trump Models, informed industry colleagues of the pending closure of the 18-year-old agency, in which Trump owns an 85 percent stake (according to his most recent financial disclosure). "The Trump Organization is choosing to exit the modeling industry," Nicolas wrote in the email. "On the heels of the recent sale of the Miss Universe Organization, the company is choosing to focus on their core businesses in the real estate, golf and hospitality space." (The Trump Organization sold the Miss Universe Organization, which also runs the Miss USA beauty pageant, to the talent agency WME-IMG about 18 months ago, following a controversy over then-candidate Trump's remarks about Mexican immigrants.)
...
Mother Jones reported before the election that Trump's modeling agency had a history of employing foreign models who said they violated immigration rules by working in the United States without work visas. That investigation also detailed how Trump Models forced its recruits to pay sky-high rent to live in crammed living quarters, while levying a dizzying number of fees and expenses on its talent that left some models in deep debt to the agency.

Thanks for pulling this all together, Mother Jones reporters. One question: where exactly were they paying sky-high rent? Was it another Trump facility, because that would just be soo Trumpian.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:09 AM on April 10, 2017 [14 favorites]

Breitbart Editors Told Staff To Stop Writing Stories Criticizing Kushner

State media no longer backing Bannon or Bannon backing down for now?
posted by Artw at 11:12 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

futz: Breitbart Editors Told Staff To Stop Writing Stories Criticizing Kushner

Well. Oiled. Machine.... that seems to be under such intense pressure that it can't help but leak a little oil here and there (and oh, over there, too - and there, and there).

The New York Times reported over the weekend that allies of Kushner, a senior White House adviser, had complained to President Donald Trump about the negative coverage he was receiving from the far-right website.

Kushner had become a target of Breitbart News amid reports that he was feuding with Stephen Bannon, the news website's former executive chairman who is now the White House chief strategist.

On Wednesday night, for instance, Breitbart published three stories critical of Kushner and promoted them heavily on its homepage. The next day, Axios reported that Bannon had told associates, "I love a gunfight."

Soon after the feud spilled out into the public's view, Trump told Bannon and Chief of Staff Reince Priebus he was fed up with the bickering in the press and instructed the pair to "work this out," The Times reported.

In the days that followed, Breitbart conspicuously refrained from leveling criticism against Kushner, choosing to lay off Trump's son-in-law.

Now, if the president would only lay off his son-in-law and hire someone competent and not part of his family. Silly dream, I know.

(Also, shame on Business Insider for first crediting Kushner as "a senior White House adviser" and not Trump's son-in-law, and/or son of Charles Kushner, convicted felon)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:13 AM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

Artw, one thing I'd love to see happen while we're on the pie in the sky when the Democrats get a majority again thing, is unifying all our independent law enforcement agencies under a single federal oversight agency. The DOJ for example.

Right this second there are literally over 18,000 totally independent law enforcement agencies. Every single sheriff, every chief of police, they are all the kings of their own little kingdoms and answer to absolutely no one. Is the local sheriff a corrupt evil scumfucker? Too bad, there's literally no one to complain to, no agency with authority of him (and it's almost always "him"), you're screwed.

We need to end the independence of local law enforcement and bring it all under a single big boss with a clearly defined chain of command so we can end the abuses in local law enforcement.
posted by sotonohito at 11:14 AM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

There's Racist. And Then There's Stunningly Racist. Then There's This GOP Fundraising Email.

Last week, a fundraising email was circulated in support of David Clarke, Milwaukee's infamous conservative sheriff. The email was made to look like it came from Rudy Giuliani.

However, it was actually sent by Jack Daly, the self-appointed national chairman of the official draft Sheriff Clarke for Senate effort. Daly wants Sheriff Clarke to unseat liberal stalwart Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin.

Daly opens the email by alleging that his teenage son (whom he describes as a "gentle boy") was attacked for supporting Trump. "These dreadlock-wearing punks shrieked 'Fuck*** Donald Trump,'" reads the email. The alleged perpetrators also insulted his son for being white. No major outlets appeared to have reported the incident, but Got News, the website run by notorious troll Chuck C. Johnson, did.

Daly also blames Barack Obama for creating a country where "blacks, Muslims, illegal aliens, and politically correct 'social justice warriors'" feel as if they can "attack" Trump supporters, police officers, businesses, and even children, and suffer no consequences such as jail or deportation.

I hate people.
posted by futz at 11:16 AM on April 10, 2017 [27 favorites]

Artw, one thing I'd love to see happen while we're on the pie in the sky when the Democrats get a majority again thing, is unifying all our independent law enforcement agencies under a single federal oversight agency. The DOJ for example.

No. It needs its own agency with a director that's appointed with advice and consent of the senate for decade long terms. None of this new President gets elected and police oversight goes out the window shit.
posted by Talez at 11:17 AM on April 10, 2017 [11 favorites]

sotonohito: Every single sheriff, every chief of police, they are all the kings of their own little kingdoms and answer to absolutely no one.

Except sheriffs are all elected officials, so until there is some unified Federal Police Force, local elections AND news matters.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:17 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

No. It needs its own agency with a director that's appointed with advice and consent of the senate for decade long terms.

J. Edgar Hoover, anyone?
posted by Melismata at 11:18 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

I really wanted to edit "The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck" to "The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck because there were too many cocksuckers in Yankton" but I restrained myself.

Oddly enough, when I moved back to North Dakota the joke I heard was that you couldn't get a decent bj in Wyoming anymore because all of the cocksuckers were here.

Charlie Pierce on how that racist idjit Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III wants to bring back the war on drugs. Looks like Jeffbo looked at what Pruitt, Tillerson, and DeVos were doing and said, "hold my beer".
posted by Ber at 11:20 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

futz: Daly opens the email by alleging that his teenage son (whom he describes as a "gentle boy") was attacked for supporting Trump. "These dreadlock-wearing punks shrieked 'Fuck*** Donald Trump,'" reads the email. The alleged perpetrators also insulted his son for being white. No major outlets appeared to have reported the incident, but Got News, the website run by notorious troll Chuck C. Johnson, did.

Daly also blames Barack Obama for creating a country where "blacks, Muslims, illegal aliens, and politically correct 'social justice warriors'" feel as if they can "attack" Trump supporters, police officers, businesses, and even children, and suffer no consequences such as jail or deportation.

Unless there was some physical violence, you're angry because you can't jail people or kick them out of the country for shouting at people? Damn, that's a pretty low bar. Seems like it's time to re-amend the First Amendment, if that's where we're going.

(Also, punks generally don't have dreadlocks, unless there's some angry reggae + punk hybrid movement I haven't heard about - I mean, I'm An Old, but I'm not that out of touch, am I?)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

Sam Kriss at his blog Idiot Joy Showland: First We Take Damascus.

Donald Trump ordered his attack on Syria because of something he saw on TV. The world is full of people like him: old, shabby, pompous; people who know everything because they learned it all from somewhere, people who function as exit nodes for the vast extraorganic network of information that chatters across oceans and ping-pongs through outer space, people who form the anuses of the system of images, excreting their content back into the world of things, people who repeat everything they see on TV. Every suburban bus stop shelters a Donald Trump, some smugly witless man of the world who knows what he knows and knows it better than you, some tyrant-in-waiting ready at any moment to vomit up the whole of the received wisdom in one splattering stream, and then act like they’re in possession of some special knowledge because they’re able to do so. The only difference is that when Donald Trump blathers from the TV, the TV takes notice: he repeats what it says, it repeats what he says. Donald Trump is the network whorling in on itself; the system of careful mediation finally splayed out in the mud, legs out, back twisted, licking its own arsehole.

The media was kind to Trump’s attack on Syria. Every pompous outlet that has spent the last five months screaming incessantly about the threat to democracy, the inevitable deaths and the terror of wars, had nothing but applause as soon as the wars and the deaths actually got going. A fleshy and dangerous idiot, a vulgarian, an imbecile – until those first perfect screaming shots of Tomahawk missiles being fired were broadcast – that’s our guy, you show them Donny! This is when, as Fareed Zakaria put it on CNN, Trump ‘became the president.’ And he really is presidential now, because the president is a totemic war-chief, the bloated repository of every male fantasy that had to be repressed, someone whose only job is to look like they could kill a hundred people in the morning and pose for a photoshoot with their dogs in the afternoon. Never mind the deaths or the uncertain repercussions; Trump’s strike was utterly squalid and utterly ignoble, some fattened toddler idly shitting out molten steel into the parched graveyard that used to be Syria, saving nobody, helping nobody, thoughtless and obscene. Kill a few of their guys, teach them a lesson, it’s common sense. And all the sophisticates and strategists applaud – stricken by half-hearted guilt, of course; after all, you still wouldn’t want to have the man round for dinner. They write their long justificatory exegeses on the timeliness of the act, bringing out every little rhetorical trick of the educated ruling classes, because all their moral angst is also from comic books, and cinema, and TV.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:23 AM on April 10, 2017 [62 favorites]

Warplanes drop incendiary bombs in Syria's Idlib, Hama: activists, monitor

Syrian or Russian warplanes dropped incendiary bombs on areas of Idlib and Hama provinces just days after a deadly gas attack in the region, activists and a monitoring group reported on Monday.

...

The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Russian jets had used an incendiary substance called thermite in bombs they dropped over the towns of Saraqeb in Idlib and al-Latamenah in Hama, further south, on Saturday and Sunday.

A rescue worker in Saraqeb said warplanes had dropped phosphorus bombs there, but he had not heard of the use of thermite. He said use of phosphorus was not a new development.

"It's normal, these are often used," said Laith Abdullah of the Syrian Civil Defence, also known as the White Helmets, a rescue group working in rebel-held areas.

Videos posted on social media purportedly from Saraqeb on Sunday showed flaming materials hitting the ground and spreading large fires.

They are daring trump to respond. This is just awful any way you look at it. Awful.
posted by futz at 11:26 AM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

J. Edgar Hoover, anyone?

We can limit it to a single term just like they did after Hoover.
posted by Talez at 11:29 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

warplanes had dropped phosphorus bombs there

Sadly, that's not the first time such bombs have been dropped in the region: US used white phosphorus in Iraq (BBC)
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:38 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

No. It needs its own agency with a director that's appointed with advice and consent of the senate for decade long terms.

J. Edgar Hoover, anyone?

Hell, look at James Comey. Having a professional "non-political" federal law enforcement agency works great!
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:40 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

"These dreadlock-wearing punks shrieked 'Fuck*** Donald Trump,'" reads the email

I'm can't figure out whether those punks dropped a you-bomb or an off-bomb
posted by Killick at 11:44 AM on April 10, 2017 [20 favorites]

I think it was "Fuckass Donald Trump" and they saw fit to asterisk out the "ass" part but not the "Fuck" part for reasons known only to them and their God.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:47 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

while small states have more extreme deviation from the norm, that deviation isn't at all consistent.

Yeah, I think there's definitely ways that we could reapportion representatives in the House, potentially by increasing the body, to make things more fair all around, because as Gelatin noted, the House is supposed to be the body where population matters, and every state in the Union knew that coming in.

The problem there is not "should we do this" - I think it does make a lot of sense - but more that what state is going to voluntarily go along with reducing their power? It's a hard sell for a lot of people, and I just don't see, realpolitik-wise, this happening.

The broader question is, of course, as alluded to above, that there's no easy way to have a "half-Constitutional" solution to inequity problems. You can either solve it within the rules, which due to self-interest is extremely unlikely, or you can take things entirely outside the rules - try to secede, declare your autonomy from federal government, etc, etc. And we do not have a peaceful precedent set up for leaving in this country. Brexit is very different than Calexit, because Brexit had the potential built in. Calexit would be doing something entirely new in defiance of federal authority, and I can't see them taking that lying down.
posted by corb at 11:47 AM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

"These dreadlock-wearing punks shrieked 'Fuck*** Donald Trump,'" reads the email.

Yassss.
posted by BeginAgain at 11:48 AM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

WHAT

Sessions orders Justice Dept. to end forensic science commission, suspend review policy

-- Attorney General Jeff Sessions will end a Justice Department partnership with independent scientists to raise forensic science standards and has suspended an expanded review of FBI testimony across several techniques that have come under question, saying a new strategy will be set by an in-house team of law enforcement advisers.

-- In suspending reviews of past testimony and the development of standards for future reporting, “the department has literally decided to suspend the truth,” said Peter S. Neufeld, co-founder of the Innocence Project, which has reported that nearly half of 349 DNA exonerations involved misapplications of forensic science. “As a consequence innocent people will languish in prison or, God forbid, could be executed,” he said.

OF COURSE:

-- However, the National District Attorneys Association, which represents prosecutors, applauded the end of the commission and called for it to be replaced by an Office of Forensic Science inside the Justice Department.

Sessiosn's statement is smarmy double speak

This is terrible news and the prosecuters association should be ashamed of themselves. Fuck them. I hate this new world we've found ourselves in.
posted by futz at 11:49 AM on April 10, 2017 [60 favorites]

Well, it says "science", of course they are against it.
posted by Artw at 11:50 AM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

Bite mark evidence is back in style. Up next, phrenology.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:59 AM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

FWIW the San Bernardino shooting appears to be a normal domestic violence related mass shooting, not "terrorism".
posted by Artw at 12:02 PM on April 10, 2017

Session's position makes sense, if your attitude is that the Justice system is intended for convictions, rather than justice. The confederate general's plan is to make it easier to get convictions--and harder to seek justice. Jefferson Sessions is truly a son of traitor Jefferson Davis and the brother of Eugene "Bull" Connor.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:03 PM on April 10, 2017 [17 favorites]

FWIW the San Bernardino shooting appears to be a normal domestic violence related mass shooting, not "terrorism".

shooter was white, i take it?
posted by entropicamericana at 12:05 PM on April 10, 2017 [18 favorites]

shooting appears to be a normal domestic violence related mass shooting, not "terrorism".

"Normal" and "mass shooting" shouldn't really be words we use together like this.

What hellish world is this?
posted by nubs at 12:10 PM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

NRA/Republican America. They worked hard to make that normal.
posted by Artw at 12:13 PM on April 10, 2017 [12 favorites]

Fahrenthold wins a Pulitzer, and so very well-deserved.
posted by Dashy at 12:14 PM on April 10, 2017 [62 favorites]

"Elementary school" also shouldn't be part of that normal event.
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm so happy to hear that David Fahrenthold won. I'm not surprised in the least, but he did amazing work this year.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:16 PM on April 10, 2017

<sub>punks generally don't have dreadlocks, unless there's some angry reggae + punk hybrid movement I haven't heard about

Total derail but this has been going on since at least the 80s; just check out Circle Jerks or Bad Brains (and early English punk bands like the Clash were totally influenced by reggae).</sub>
posted by aspersioncast at 12:19 PM on April 10, 2017 [18 favorites]

Fahrenthold wins a Pulitzer, and so very well-deserved.

Angry tweet about the FAILING, BIASED Pulitzer Board coming in 3... 2... 1...
posted by dnash at 12:19 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm so happy to hear that David Fahrenthold won. I'm not surprised in the least, but he did amazing work this year.

I'd also really, really like to read a reproach to the whole "but her emails!" crowd from the Pulitzer Committee.
posted by Gelatin at 12:20 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm thrilled for Fahrenthold. Unfortunately, they gave one to Peggy Noonan as well. This is a columnist who decided to use her column to suck up to Trump after he won, saying explicitly that nobody put the conversation between them off the record but "it felt off the record" so she won't quote him or provide any more information except some rambling about how wonderful he is. That's what counts for Pulitzer Prize-winning commentary.
posted by zachlipton at 12:23 PM on April 10, 2017 [16 favorites]

I hope it's a message about the upcoming Sheriff's Easter Egg Hunt and Prayer Service (which is not a thing, as far as I know).

It was a message to drug dealers, "We're coming for you."
posted by scalefree at 12:24 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

It was a message to drug dealers, "We're coming for you."

That was one of the messages. There are certainly other messages being sent.
posted by H. Roark at 12:32 PM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

@Farenthold, 11 December 2016, replying to @ericgarland:

damn, man, this is great writing, using a form that doesn't usually lend itself to greatness.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:34 PM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

a form that doesn't usually lend itself to greatness

the form in question being the amphetamine-binge inspired tweetstorm
posted by murphy slaw at 12:36 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

I've heard suggestions that if Democrats gain the majority again, they should pack the Supreme Court with justice positions and now essentially pack the Senate with new states. While I don't long for the flailing about red state voters that we'd have to essentially turn the party around to acquire, are these solutions truly realistic enough to gain widespread support among even a Democratic majority, and are we to the point as a party where after two consecutive national wins and a loss, we have to "turn over the table"?
posted by Selena777 at 1:03 PM on April 10, 2017

>> Daly also blames Barack Obama for creating a country where "blacks, Muslims, illegal aliens, and politically correct 'social justice warriors'" feel as if they can "attack" Trump supporters, police officers, businesses, and even children, and suffer no consequences such as jail or deportation.

> I hate people.

I don't! I think this is good news. They are scared. Let's make 'em more scared.

Like, yes, they are reprehensible people, they are going to do reprehensible things, we must oppose them with all our might — but we have got them in a tizzy. They think we're gonna bring hell down upon them. They're revealing how they are vulnerable. Let's take advantage of their vulnerability.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:06 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

these solutions truly realistic enough to gain widespread support among even a Democratic majority

ha ha no, the democrats are already talking about putting back the judicial filibuster on THEMSELVES if they retake the senate
posted by murphy slaw at 1:06 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

That was one of the messages. There are certainly other messages being sent.

"We are a paramilitary death squad now." being the strongest.
posted by Artw at 1:07 PM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

This news about Russia knowing in advance of and possibly covering for the Syrian Chemical Attack is currently making me sick to my stomach.
posted by Brainy at 1:10 PM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

They think we're gonna bring hell down upon them.

Worse than that -- they know, looking at an almost three-million-popular-vote loss, that they are in the minority, and that that fact means they will eventually be in the political minority, and they know (because they're busy doing it now) how they would treat the political minority once in power.

The sadly ironic thing about modern Republicans is that by shredding every political norm designed to protect minority power, they are digging their own political grave.
posted by Gelatin at 1:11 PM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

are we to the point as a party where after two consecutive national wins and a loss, we have to "turn over the table"?

But to address that side of the question, yes. The GOP has declared in no uncertain terms that their plan is to destroy all levers of power that they don't control, and to destroy all checks on the levers that they do control. There's no counter to that within the norms of democratic governance as they existed through 2010 -- if we're going to return to the collegial relationship between parties and joint governance of yesteryear, it'll require a near-total purge of the Republican Party, burning away all the damage wrought by Newt Gingrich and his successors. Failing that, the only way to win this game is to flip the table and punch them in the face.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:11 PM on April 10, 2017 [28 favorites]

The Kushner Family Passover Hagaadah
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:14 PM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

ha ha no, the democrats are already talking about putting back the judicial filibuster on THEMSELVES if they retake the senate

"When they go low, we go high. I am henceforth ceding control of the government to Sr. Carmona so that the people's revolution may proceed in a legal and collegial manner." - Hugo Chavez, 2002.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:16 PM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

While I don't long for the flailing about red state voters that we'd have to essentially turn the party around to acquire, are these solutions truly realistic enough to gain widespread support among even a Democratic majority, and are we to the point as a party where after two consecutive national wins and a loss, we have to "turn over the table"?

Yes. Republicans already turned it over. Through stealing a Presidential election, unprecedented obstruction of Clinton's appointees, then of Obama's entire agenda, and now changing the very make-up of congress to ram through a stolen majority. Not to mention gerrymandering the House. Or denying the very legitimacy the last two Democratic Presidents, neither of whom lost the popular vote. Not doing the same is forfeiting the game. The side playing by the old rules will never win when the other side is willing to change them at any time to prevent their losing.

Coloring within the lines will only result in further Democratic losses. There's no score keeper, there's no one dolling out "bipartisan points" for coming to a reasonable agreement where Republicans still win but Democrats say nice things about losing within the lines. There's only substantive policy victories, policy losses, and changing the process to set up later victories. As long as Democrats refuse to use power when they have it, Republicans will be the only ones who do.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:21 PM on April 10, 2017 [24 favorites]

> The sadly ironic thing about modern Republicans is that by shredding every political norm designed to protect minority power, they are digging their own political grave.

I do not trust them to do the job of digging their own graves, because they are fuckups who've never done a day's worth of real work in their lives. They can dig holes all they want — and I encourage them to waste their time digging holes — but because we can't expect good work from them, we are the ones who will dig their graves.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:21 PM on April 10, 2017 [12 favorites]

There's no score keeper, there's no one dolling out "bipartisan points" for coming to a reasonable agreement where Republicans still win but Democrats say nice things about losing within the lines.

The media probably like to think they do so, but they only -- only -- hold Democrats to this standard, so it's high time to reject it.
posted by Gelatin at 1:24 PM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

Alabama Governor Robert Bentley will resign today.

Aw, I thought god was on his side and he would win at his impeachment hearing. BYE ASSHOLE.
posted by futz at 1:27 PM on April 10, 2017 [34 favorites]

One of the MANY horrible things about Jeff Sessions' appointment was supposedly that his replacement (Sen. Luther Strange, R-Skull Mountain) was being chosen to get him out of state politics and stymie the investigation of Bentley. Glad to know not everything is going horrifically wrong in this timeline.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:29 PM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

are we to the point as a party where after two consecutive national wins and a loss, we have to "turn over the table"?

Isn't the whole problem that the leadership of the Republican party (looking at you Mitch McConnell) is busily turning over the table as we speak?

Since the late 90s, we've had...

- Impeaching a president over an affair

- Two popular vote losing presidents in 16 years.

- Deliberate attempts at voter suppression

- Filibustering 79 of Obama’s nominees, compared with 68 in the entire previous history of the Republic.

- Proposing to default on the national debt

- Semi-regular government shut-downs

- Refusing to even having a hearing on Obama's last Supreme Court nominee

The measures that people are proposing in this thread -- adding states, changing the population per representative formulas, finding ways to do re-districting that aren't so subject to gerrymandering, even court-packing -- are all constitutional, and actually represent relatively small tweaks to the system, not unprecedented maneuvers like the ones Republicans have successfully attempted.

I think those discussions of how to get around the under-representation of urban populations without destroying the constitution are actually aimed at keeping the table-flippers out of the game, rather than at flipping the table...
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:30 PM on April 10, 2017 [91 favorites]

My girlfriend works for the Post, and since she's working from home today I got to watch a stream of the internal Fahrenthold Pulitzer celebration over her shoulder. A few tidbits:

-- Fahrenthold was told in his 2015 performance review that he should work on improving his social media skills
-- Fahrenthold used his growing sway to get the Post to provide a sundae bar for reporters during the debates
-- In his acceptance speech, Fahrenthold thanked many of his Twitter sources by handle, ending with a shout-out to @wigglybuttz
-- Post Editor Marty Baron, having heard that people were saying that Fahrenthold was "the hottest reporter," asked him in what sense people meant that. "In every sense," Fahrenthold replied
posted by vathek at 1:33 PM on April 10, 2017 [74 favorites]

Bentley's resignation has no effect on Luther Strange's nomination to the US Senate, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 1:34 PM on April 10, 2017

Bentley's resignation has no effect on Luther Strange's nomination to the US Senate, right?

Nope. Strange was sworn in and it's done.
posted by Talez at 1:39 PM on April 10, 2017

The Kushner Family Passover Haggadah

This is very good, but I am disappointed it didn't describe Eric as the child who doesn't know how to ask.
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

One minor point on Kushner. I encourage people to regard or disregard him on his own merit as opposed to the felony conviction against his father. I've seen that here leveraged as if the crime of the father belongs to the son.

None of us can help who we are related to and none are responsible for the crimes of our family members.

Unless Kushner was implicated in his father's crimes?
posted by hilaryjade at 1:41 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fun fact, lying on the SF-86 disclosure, say about meetings with the head of a Russian bank under sanctions, is a felony.

So, on his own merits, Kushner is a felon just like his dad.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:45 PM on April 10, 2017 [58 favorites]

Is he where he is today through profiting from said crimes? Then I have no problem tarring the fuck away.
posted by Artw at 1:49 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

I didn't add it to the list because I guess we aren't sure yet if it happened, but colluding with a foreign government in an espionage and propaganda campaign against your political appointment would be the MOST unprecedented table flipping if it turned out to have happened...

And refusing to fill the vast majority of presidentially appointed roles in the executive branch also should be on that list.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:57 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

The measures that people are proposing in this thread -- adding states, changing the population per representative formulas, finding ways to do re-districting that aren't so subject to gerrymandering, even court-packing -- are all constitutional, and actually represent relatively small tweaks to the system, not unprecedented maneuvers like the ones Republicans have successfully attempted

I think sometimes there's a thing that happens in politics where we all - myself included - forget that people are playing for keeps, for enormous stakes and prizes, and that few in the history of the world have ever voluntarily given away power without a fight.

All of the proposed "flip the table" solutions are certainly solutions that might or might not help with the identified problems. Whether they are constitutional or not will be, ultimately, left up to the lawyers. But what people forget, I think, is that each of these proposed solutions would be met with countermeasures. The universe is neither kind, nor just, nor fair. It matters to us who is right, who started things, who was the more unprecedented. It doesn't matter a bit to the habits and tools of power, or to the many social norms that make the country work.

Turn will be met with turn. The GOP will be met by Dems will be met by GOP will be met by Dems until the whole damn country is on fire, and it won't matter a bit who is right and who winds up being king over the ashes.

And I don't even have an answer, or a solution, because at the same time, you have to meet attacks or you'll get run over. But when attack is met by attack and there's no way of deescalating, we wind up in a really bad place.
posted by corb at 1:58 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

Turn will be met with turn. The GOP will be met by Dems will be met by GOP will be met by Dems until the whole damn country is on fire, and it won't matter a bit who is right and who winds up being king over the ashes.


That seems like a pretty revisionist take on how politics have actually played out in the US. Turn has decidedly not been met with turn.
posted by bardophile at 2:02 PM on April 10, 2017 [47 favorites]

Bully repeatedly takes lunch money from the scrawny kid for decades, and barely a yawn from those who now say they're concerned about the erosion of norms. Finally the scrawny kid hits the gym and threatens to fight back, despite currently having no power to do so, and it's a threat to the republic that must be dealt with years before it could possibly become a reality.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:06 PM on April 10, 2017 [35 favorites]

There's a way to deescalate, it's just that it's the party that turned the rest of the country over to fascists and Russia to obtain political benefits who would have to do the deescalation. Particularly for the people who have noted above that there is a personal existential threat for them posed by continuing to give the Republicans free rein.
posted by XMLicious at 2:07 PM on April 10, 2017 [26 favorites]

I'm so happy to hear that David Fahrenthold won. I'm not surprised in the least, but he did amazing work this year.

In the process, Post editor Martin Baron said Fahrenthold, 39, “reimagined” investigative reporting. Traditionally, Baron noted, reporters have kept their work “secret and guarded” until they’ve developed enough information to publish. Fahrenthold instead shared his progress on stories via Twitter and openly asked readers for tips and information that guided his work. Baron noted that this process now has a name: “the Fahrenthold method.”

That is really cool.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:09 PM on April 10, 2017 [42 favorites]

Kushner has also used his power to exact political revenge on the man who convicted and put his father in jail. So at some point you would have to say the he is -- what is the family phrase -- complicit.
posted by JackFlash at 2:12 PM on April 10, 2017 [43 favorites]

Kushner has also used his power to exact political revenge on the man who convicted and put his father in jail. So at some point you would have to say the he is -- what is the family phrase -- complicit.

Some revenge. Christie puts his dad in jail and he makes Christie look like a weak footstool of a political stooge. Any half competent father avenger would have just had Sessions go after Christie and have Christie jailed for Bridgegate. He fails at taking revenge on an all but tried and convicted criminal governor from New Jersey. That's like failing to shoot fish in a barrel with an AK and a full magazine.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

So at some point you would have to say the he is -- what is the family phrase -- complicit.

You mean working to be a force for good and make a positive impact?
posted by melissasaurus at 2:30 PM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

You mean working to be a force for good and make a positive impact?

Surely. Far be it from me to impugn the motives of the Trump/Kushner family, bless their hearts.
posted by JackFlash at 2:35 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

Looks like China are sending 150,000 troops to its border with NK.
posted by Talez at 2:42 PM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

U.S. military still able to deconflict with Russia over Syria - spokesman

"We have continued to deconflict as necessary with the Russians because whenever we are flying we have to use all the available means to make sure that we don't have any mid-air incidents. That particular line and how it is used, we are not talking about it," U.S. Central Command spokesman Colonel John Thomas told reporters.

U.S. says strike hits 20 percent of Syria's operational aircraft

The U.S. cruise missile strike on a Syrian air base last week damaged or destroyed 20 percent of Syria's operational aircraft, as well as fuel and ammunition sites and air defense capabilities, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said on Monday.

"The Syrian government has lost the ability to refuel or re-arm aircraft at Shayrat airfield and at this point, use of the runway is of idle military interest," Mattis said in a statement.

"The Syrian government would be ill-advised ever again to use chemical weapons."
posted by futz at 2:59 PM on April 10, 2017

anem0ne: Let's be careful about raising panic about the Korean Peninsula?

Thank you for the quick translation and elaboration, anem0ne!
posted by filthy light thief at 3:01 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hey, look, this DID happen: Alabama governor booked on campaign finance charges.

"Bentley was charged with one count of failure to disclose information on a statement of economic interest, a misdemeanor, according to AL.com. The second charge is for failure to file campaign finance reports, also a misdemeanor."
posted by mosk at 3:04 PM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

Vice: EPA Investigated Employee Who Called Donald Trump a 'Fucking Fascist,' Documents Reveal.
posted by scalefree at 3:13 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hope the Bentley prosecution is able to make more headway than the attempted prosecution of Bob McDonnell here in Virginia, whose conviction was subsequently overturned by the US Supreme Court. I was reminded of him because the local paper just ran a "Where are they now?" type of article.
posted by indubitable at 3:14 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

This news about Russia knowing in advance of and possibly covering for the Syrian Chemical Attack is currently making me sick to my stomach.

Breaking: the pilot Gen Mhmd Hasoury who made the chemical massacre in Khan Shaikhoun had been killed today by a bomb blast under his car

The atmosphere is paranoid enough to make one wonder if this was retaliation or Assad/Putin covering tracks.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:19 PM on April 10, 2017 [14 favorites]

(Also, punks generally don't have dreadlocks, unless there's some angry reggae + punk hybrid movement I haven't heard about - I mean, I'm An Old, but I'm not that out of touch, am I?)

Gutter punks almost always have dreadlocks. They also often have a ukulele.
posted by srboisvert at 3:27 PM on April 10, 2017 [8 favorites]

Back in the '80s I played a role-playing game called Twilight: 2000, which was set just at the end of World War III, in which NATO and the Warsaw Pact had both pretty much battered each other to oblivion, including a limited tactical / strategic nuclear exchange. But the thing the setting postulated as really messing everyone up was the fact that both sides targeted oil infrastructure, so there was hardly any remaining. Vehicles, when they were operable, ran on ethanol, and air power was a thing of the past. Which also meant food distribution networks, to say nothing of the rest of the economy, basically collapsed, and civilization was on the verge of collapse.

I wish I wasn't thinking of that grim setting more and more these days.

Well, it would help the coal industry...
posted by srboisvert at 3:30 PM on April 10, 2017 [3 favorites]

Given Putin's penchant for throwing inconvenient people out of windows and feeding them polonium, it's perfectly rational to wonder if he has someone bombed.
posted by emjaybee at 3:30 PM on April 10, 2017

People are saying Donald Truck is a fucking fascist. I'm not saying it. That's just what I heard.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:33 PM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

Vice: EPA Investigated Employee Who Called Donald Trump a 'Fucking Fascist,' Documents Reveal.

Ergh, clickbait. That is NOT what happened, as stated in the very article linked. Fuck you, Vice.

An (asserted) EPA staffer called the hotline for the EPA Office of Inspector General and said that the president was a fucking fascist and federal employees need to fight him. They gave their name and phone number.

The OIG, in compliance with their regulations, opened an investigation into the charge, then closed it. They didn't investigate the EPA staffer who made the allegation, except insofar as they might have talked to them about the allegation.

No Girl Scout cookies for that headline-writer.
posted by suelac at 3:39 PM on April 10, 2017 [17 favorites]

This is a blog post by Symantec about CIA cyber attacks around the world. They finally put the pieces together after the recent wikileaks dump. They probably already had a pretty good idea who was behind the attacks and even now they don't name the CIA in the post.

Longhorn: Tools used by cyberespionage group linked to Vault 7

-- Spying tools and operational protocols detailed in the recent Vault 7 leak have been used in cyberattacks against at least 40 targets in 16 different countries by a group Symantec calls Longhorn. Symantec has been protecting its customers from Longhorn’s tools for the past three years and has continued to track the group in order to learn more about its tools, tactics, and procedures.

The tools used by Longhorn closely follow development timelines and technical specifications laid out in documents disclosed by WikiLeaks.[...] Given the close similarities between the tools and techniques, there can be little doubt that Longhorn's activities and the Vault 7 documents are the work of the same group.

-- Longhorn has been active since at least 2011. It has used a range of back door Trojans in addition to zero-day vulnerabilities to compromise its targets. Longhorn has infiltrated governments and internationally operating organizations, in addition to targets in the financial, telecoms, energy, aerospace, information technology, education, and natural resources sectors. All of the organizations targeted would be of interest to a nation-state attacker.

Longhorn has infected 40 targets in at least 16 countries across the Middle East, Europe, Asia, and Africa. On one occasion a computer in the United States was compromised but, following infection, an uninstaller was launched within hours, which may indicate this victim was infected unintentionally.
posted by futz at 4:41 PM on April 10, 2017 [9 favorites]

Hey, no fair. Home-made propaganda videos with armed balaclava-wearing men are an ISIS thing.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:24 PM on April 10, 2017 [5 favorites]

I thought I had seen it all. I was wrong. Peggy Noonan just won a Pulitzer Prize. For her writing. I'm going for a long walk.
posted by scalefree at 5:38 PM on April 10, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump records robocall for Kansas special election

“Hello, this is President Donald Trump, and I have something big to tell you,” Trump says on the recorded call, according to a transcript.

"Ron is a conservative leader who needs it badly. Ron is a conservative leader who’s going to work with me to make American great again. We’re going to do things really great for our country. Our country needs help, Ron is going to be helping us big league. But I need Republicans like Ron Estes to help me get the job done," Trump continues.

Trump says there are few other elections as "important" as this one, and urges eligible voters to support Estes instead of his Democratic rival James Thompson.

Needs it badly? His robocall needs a translator. I would flip the fuck out if I answered the phone and heard Lord Centipede's voice. Phone would meet wall. Bigly.
posted by futz at 5:38 PM on April 10, 2017 [31 favorites]

Kremlin, angry at Syria missile strike, says Putin won't meet Tillerson

I wonder if the Order of Friendship has a self destruct mode.
posted by futz at 6:05 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ron is a conservative leader who needs it badly.

which is why they get themselves into such trouble ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:15 PM on April 10, 2017 [10 favorites]

Ron is a conservative leader who needs it badly.

By Chuck Tingle
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:28 PM on April 10, 2017 [81 favorites]

Ron is going to be helping us big league.

the first time i read this i thought he was using "big league" as a verb but i think it's actually just an adjectival phrase being abused as an adverb?
posted by murphy slaw at 6:30 PM on April 10, 2017

His brain was probably gasping for a different cliche, "big time," but came up short. I used to get those kinds of malaprops popping out occasionally when my thinking got disorganized under stress, but in his case, I think he just doesn't care all that much about what the individual words mean. He always seems to speak in vague impressionistic strokes of familiar stock phrases and cliches to create a vague emotional impression rather than putting any particular ideas he actually cares about into his words, like a huckster just faking it.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:51 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

SPECIAL ELECTIONS UPDATES

* One thing to keep in mind about possible Dem upsets in special elections is that while these are all GOP held seats, the districts vary considerably in how tough they are. Here's the 2016 pres results:

KS-04 +33 Trump
GA-06 +1 Trump
MT-AL +20 Trump

* KS-04: Internal GOP poll has them up by a single point. Even a close race would be a big deal, a GOP loss here would be stunning. Cook political moved to Lean Republican.

* GA-06 Mon results:

Day 12 of in-person early voting in GA-6 is R 47, D 39--highest turnout and best GOP day yet Over all, D 49, R 34 with 26717 ballots cast.

On the off-chance you know someone in Wichita, make sure they vote tomorrow!
posted by Chrysostom at 7:39 PM on April 10, 2017 [32 favorites]

Judge again finds discrimination in Texas' voter ID law

A judge Monday again ruled that Republican lawmakers deliberately designed a strict voter ID law to disadvantage minorities and effectively dampen their growing electoral power.

It amounted to the second finding of intentional discrimination in Texas election laws in as many months — a separate court in March ruled that Republicans racially gerrymandered several congressional districts when drawing voting maps in 2011, the same year the voter ID rules were passed.

Neither ruling has any immediate impact. But the decisions are significant because it raises the possibility of Texas being stripped of the right to unilaterally change its election laws without federal approval. Forcing Texas to once again seek federal permission — known as "preclearance" — has been a goal of Democrats and minority rights groups since the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the requirement in 2013.

-- In February, President Donald Trump's administration reversed the federal government's position on the Texas voter ID law, announcing that it would no longer continue challenging the rules as the U.S. Justice Department did under President Barack Obama.
posted by futz at 8:09 PM on April 10, 2017 [21 favorites]

Politico:

Moderate House Republicans who flirted with supporting the GOP’s now-stalled Obamacare replacement will face attack ads in their districts this week for doing so.

Save My Care, a coalition of left-leaning health care advocacy groups fighting to preserve Obamacare, is launching a seven-figure TV ad buy in seven competitive House districts across the country.

posted by Chrysostom at 8:17 PM on April 10, 2017 [21 favorites]

Chrysostom, I appreciate your consistent reporting on these races. Thank you.
posted by wallabear at 8:22 PM on April 10, 2017 [20 favorites]

I just hope to have good news tomorrow night!
posted by Chrysostom at 8:28 PM on April 10, 2017 [12 favorites]

LAT: DCCC moving staff to California, hoping to flip 7 GOP-held seats that voted for Hillary.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:30 PM on April 10, 2017 [21 favorites]

On Trump’s Syria Strategy, One Voice Is Missing: Trump’s

The latest mixed messages were sent on Monday in both Washington and Europe. Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson — during a stop in Italy on his way to Moscow for a potentially tense visit, given Russian anger at last week’s missile strike — outlined a dramatically interventionist approach. “We rededicate ourselves to holding to account any and all who commit crimes against the innocents anywhere in the world,” he said.

Hours later, Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, said at his daily briefing that Mr. Trump would act against Syria not just if it resorted to chemical weapons, like the sarin nerve agent reportedly used last week, but also when it used conventional munitions. “If you gas a baby, if you put a barrel bomb into innocent people, I think you will see a response from this president,” Mr. Spicer said.
...
Just as likely, analysts said, neither Mr. Tillerson nor Mr. Spicer really meant it or, possibly, fully understood the potentially far-reaching consequences of what they were saying. Unlike chemical weapons, barrel bombs — typically oil drums filled with explosives — are used with vicious regularity in the Syrian civil war. According to the Syrian Network for Human Rights, the government dropped 495 barrel bombs in March alone, and 12,958 in 2016.

By the end of the day Monday, fearing that a new “red line” had been drawn, the White House sought to unwind Mr. Spicer’s comment. “Nothing has changed in our posture,” officials said in a statement emailed to reporters. “The president retains the option to act in Syria against the Assad regime whenever it is in the national interest, as was determined following that government’s use of chemical weapons against its own citizens.”

This is horrifying. These people are creating entire military doctrines on the fly and then walking them back.
posted by zachlipton at 8:40 PM on April 10, 2017 [34 favorites]

The White House Seder, featuring no Jared, no Ivanka, and no Trump.

Chag Sameach.
posted by zachlipton at 8:51 PM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jimmy Carter: U.S. Is an 'Oligarchy With Unlimited Political Bribery'
posted by futz at 9:12 PM on April 10, 2017 [33 favorites]

Eric Trump is ‘sure’ Ivanka encouraged their father to strike Syria: ‘I think that’s a great thing’

“Ivanka is a mother of three kids and she has influence. I’m sure she said: ‘Listen, this is horrible stuff,’” Eric said

The White House Seder, featuring no Jared, no Ivanka, and no Trump

Putzes, all of them.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:22 PM on April 10, 2017 [7 favorites]

If this is what passes as a slow news day now, with its mass shooting and United meltdown, then god help us all.
posted by Artw at 9:45 PM on April 10, 2017 [13 favorites]

"I'm sure ivanka isn't a monster. Believe me, I'm Eric von 4Chan"
posted by Yowser at 9:47 PM on April 10, 2017 [11 favorites]

(Note that I don't think a schmuck like trump could execute a successful military engagement if his life depended on it. Just clearing that up)
posted by Yowser at 9:51 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is Sessions fired yet for lying under oath?
posted by Yowser at 9:52 PM on April 10, 2017 [22 favorites]

An acquaintance in GA-06 who would have voted for Ossoff has said that, after receiving numerous phone bank calls and a dozen flyers in the last week, they are so annoyed that they are not going to vote at all.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:52 PM on April 10, 2017

Was this Monday the first "slow news day" we've had so far?

They were just giving United some room to act Presidential.
posted by nubs at 9:52 PM on April 10, 2017 [2 favorites]

Your acquaintance is lying. Dump the Trumpette.
posted by Yowser at 10:03 PM on April 10, 2017 [15 favorites]

“Ivanka is a mother of three kids and she has influence

and remind me, Eric, how many kids does your father have? I won't ask about his influence over his own administration's murder field trips because I don't honestly know that he has any. but that aside.

I would add, does your sister's husband, who outranks her in the White House, not have not only the same number of kids but the same particular ones? I had thought he might.

of course, this is different. somehow. as always, I am reminded of the Dorothy Sayers bit about how women are required to have a special, female reason for things that men are understood to have a normal human reason for. she didn't mean idiotic warmongering, specifically, but she might as well have. it applies.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:07 PM on April 10, 2017 [42 favorites]

Trump doesn't have empathy as part of his whole schtick, so of course he needs an empathy surrogate.
posted by jaduncan at 10:40 PM on April 10, 2017 [6 favorites]

An acquaintance in GA-06 who would have voted for Ossoff has said that, after receiving numerous phone bank calls and a dozen flyers in the last week, they are so annoyed that they are not going to vote at all.

Well, screw them then. "I would have voted against racism but people contacted me too much" isn't really a stance I can love.
posted by jaduncan at 10:47 PM on April 10, 2017 [36 favorites]

I'd be happier with him having an empathy surrogate if she wasn't apparently also pro-random-acts-of-war.
posted by Archelaus at 10:52 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

Russia could soon control a U.S. oil company

In a crazy twist of international events, Russia's state-owned oil company Rosneft might end up owning Citgo, a US energy company based in Houston, Texas.

This isn't a direct takeover. Instead, it hinges on the ability of Venezuela's state-run oil company to pay back its Russian loan. The Venezuelan company owns Citgo, which was used as collateral for the loan.

Both Republican and Democratic lawmakers are highly alarmed. In hotly worded letters to the Trump Administration in recent days, members of Congress and senators warned that it could be a big problem for US national security if Russia gets a hold of Citgo.

"We are extremely concerned that Rosneft's control of a major US energy supplier could pose a grave threat to American energy security, impact the flow and price of gasoline for American consumers, and expose critical US infrastructure to national security threats," a bipartisan group of senators led by Republican Marco Rubio of Florida and Democrat Bob Menendez of New Jersey wrote Monday in a letter to US Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin

-- A number of respected international market analysts predict that due to the ongoing economic crisis in Venezuela, PdVSA could default on its debt in the very near future. In the case of default, Rosneft would then acquire at least a 49.9 ownership share in PdVSA and its subsidiary CITGO. This could leave Rosneft, a Russian company controlled by oligarchs with close ties to Vladimir Putin, in control of critical energy infrastructure in the United States.

This is reassuring:

"The Russians can't hold the US hostage," says John LaForge, an energy expert and head of Real Assets strategy at Wells Fargo. He says Citgo handles about 800,000 barrels of oil a day.

While it's not miniscule, that's just a small fraction of the nearly 20 million barrels of petroleum the US consumes daily. If Rosneft stopped refining oil at Citgo's three US refineries, LaForge says, "Other refineries would love to pick up the slack."

This should be interesting to say the least.
posted by futz at 11:13 PM on April 10, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'd be happier with him having an empathy surrogate if she wasn't apparently also pro-random-acts-of-war.

I apologise for being unclear. I mean that when something needs to be sold as being based in empathy, it is not something Trump can believably do. His schtick is the tough guy who does what he wants and doesn't care. Thus Ivanka must be the one that is used to sell that, because she has that as a component of her image.
posted by jaduncan at 11:13 PM on April 10, 2017 [4 favorites]

Right. My snark there was more that it's not really "empathy" when your response table includes "potentially start World War 3 because you can't envision basic fucking consequences."

IOW: I feel that the stupidity of this response invalidates any possibility of selling it as "because of empathy."
posted by Archelaus at 11:18 PM on April 10, 2017 [1 favorite]

empathy surrogate indeed. She is not an empathy anything. She is an unqualified nepotistic hire like her husband and she has no more brains than Reince Priebus and no more morals than Steve Bannon. nobody, I think, expects her to, so I don't know why the urge to play along with the admin PR line that she should have more empathy than her dad.

she is spectacularly incompetent at carrying out her imaginary theoretical unofficial made-up job duties, which I say because if I were the second-ranked member of this horrible monster family I would have had my top two despicable brothers taken out the second week in, and the fact that she has not done so is the main reason I doubt the variously fawning and foaming reports of her incredible influence. sure, their dad might want to keep them around as ambulatory organ banks but what's in it for her? no, she is clearly not run by her emotions any more than by her brains.

she doesn't occupy the empathy office, though. there is no empathy office. she is not the Deanna Troi of trump enterprises. her bullshit job title is in fact special assistant, not ship's counselor. her ostensible influencing position is about equivalent to Kushner's. everybody can quit pretending to expect "empathy" from her and then affecting faux surprise that she fails to demonstrate any. any time now. we get it, she's a lady. but being a soulless husk is actually more relevant, I do think.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:22 PM on April 10, 2017 [42 favorites]

For the record, I'm not arguing that she does. I'm arguing, as are you, that the PR line is that she does.
posted by jaduncan at 1:49 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

An acquaintance in GA-06 who would have voted for Ossoff has said that, after receiving numerous phone bank calls and a dozen flyers in the last week, they are so annoyed that they are not going to vote at all.

If it hadn't been the calls and the flyers, it would have been not enough wooing. Or someone was inappropriately dressed while canvassing in the parking lot on Election Day. Or the weather. Or their job got really busy and they just couldn't quite make it.

Seriously, who complains about too many flyers these days?
posted by Etrigan at 3:40 AM on April 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

Seriously, who complains about too many flyers these days?

united airlines?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:49 AM on April 11, 2017 [128 favorites]

Trump Administration to Pay Health Law Subsidies Disputed by House

This is big, one of the biggest ways the Trump administration could fuck with Obamacare would be to stop paying the cost-sharing subsidies to exchange participants. Not doing that, for now at least, means they're not going to pull out all the stops to ensure the wore possible outcome for the exchanges.

There's still another lawsuit challenging these payments, and a ruling against the government paying them. But not cutting them off at the earliest moment is a qualified good thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:18 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

All of the proposed "flip the table" solutions are certainly solutions that might or might not help with the identified problems. Whether they are constitutional or not will be, ultimately, left up to the lawyers.

The Apportionment Act of 1911 is presumably Constitutional, having been in place for more than a century. Changing it to increase the number of Representatives and alter the population-per-representative ratio seem to be constitutional on its face, and I don't understand why corb would even raise the question of possible unconstitutionality.

I don't see things as necessarily as gloomily as she does, though. We agree that it's vital that the Democrats fight back and oppose the Republicans' unprecedented power grab. It's equally vital to make Republicans understand that actions have consequences (which makes Democratic talk about restoring the judicial filibuster utterly stupid, by the way). Republicans have been acting as they have because they have paid relatively little political price for it (which proves there is no such thing as a "liberal media," of course). They are heading for minority status and they know it. It's up to Republicans to decide whether they want to be the loyal opposition whose rights are protected or the enemies of the American system. It's unfortunate that they have chosen as they have for so many decades, but they can change.
posted by Gelatin at 4:45 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

"An acquaintance in GA-06 who would have voted for Ossoff has said that, after receiving numerous phone bank calls and a dozen flyers in the last week, they are so annoyed that they are not going to vote at all."

That is the response of a consumer, not a citizen. Our polity has lost all sense of role and identity.
posted by klarck at 5:01 AM on April 11, 2017 [62 favorites]

It's equally vital to make Republicans understand that actions have consequences (which makes Democratic talk about restoring the judicial filibuster utterly stupid, by the way).

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even by Democratic Party standards. What possible reason is there to reinstate the filibuster only so Republicans can use it against them when Democrats were just prevented from doing so?

"Hi, I know you just shot me in the face, but would you mind handing me the gun so I can reload it for you and you can shoot me in the face again? Thanks, aren't I so reasonable and bipartisan!?"
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:20 AM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

What possible reason is there to reinstate the filibuster only so Republicans can use it against them when Democrats were just prevented from doing so?

Democrats, and only Democrats, are expected by the media to act "bipartisan" (which the George W. Bush regime revealed was defined by pundits as "do what the Republicans want*"). But the actual Democratic response should be to point out this double standard at every opportunity, so either they don't get held to a standard that the press isn't willing to apply to Republicans, or the press actually does take note of extreme Republican partisanship.

But unilaterally disarming to a de facto 61 vote standard for Democratic appointees versus 51 votes for Republicans is inexplicably stupid.

*See also the tired and unmissed trope of "why oh why won't Obama eschew partisanship and back this reasonable, centrist policy I suggest," which just happens to be Obama's actual proposal.
posted by Gelatin at 5:32 AM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

God help us.

@realdonaldtrump: I explained to the President of China that a trade deal with the U.S. will be far better for them if they solve the North Korean problem! North Korea is looking for trouble. If China decides to help, that would be great. If not, we will solve the problem without them! U.S.A.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:54 AM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

It is essential that we recognize reality even if the mass media and our own Democratic representatives in government won't.

Donald J. Trump is senile.

His mind is breaking down, he's worse than he was in his 40's, and he's getting worse at a rapid pace as the stress of office accelerates things.

People upthread were talking about Ivanka's job at the White House, and I think they're right, it isn't the stereotypical feminine role of being empathy officer. Instead it's another sort of emotional labor: babysitter.

I'm pretty sure the reason she has an office in the White House is because she's one of the few people who can effectively babysit Trump and get him to at least pretend to be President for a few minutes while the cameras are rolling.

The President is senile.

This is the second time the Republicans have voted for a senile old man, we can speculate about why that may be (I'm personally betting that it's because Republican policies are inherently anti-intellectual so a person incapable of intellect is their perfect agent), but the fact remains that just like Reagan, Trump is mentally incompetent.

I spoke earlier about there being no Trump doctrine, no Trump strategy, and his senility is the reason for that situation. Like with Reagan we're seeing different factions competing to put forth their strategy, and the result is chaos. One day one faction will be dominant so the US will seemingly take one position, the next day a different faction will be dominant so the US will take a position opposite to the one from yesterday. But its all happening for one simple reason:

The President is senile.
posted by sotonohito at 6:01 AM on April 11, 2017 [79 favorites]

Are any actual Democratic Senators actually endorsing bringing back the filibuster for appointments in a future Democratic-majority Senate? Who has said this, and when?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:01 AM on April 11, 2017

Senator Ed Markey said it yesterday.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:04 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Are any actual Democratic Senators actually endorsing bringing back the filibuster for appointments in a future Democratic-majority Senate? Who has said this, and when?

Meet Senator Sen. Ed Markey of Massachusetts:

Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) pledged Monday that Democrats will restore a 60-vote filibuster threshold for Supreme Court nominees if they regain the majority in the upper chamber.

"We will restore the 60-vote margin. We will ensure that for the Supreme Court there is that special margin that any candidate has to reach," he told MSNBC.

He said making Supreme Court candidates get 60 votes "is essential to ensuring that our country has a confidence in those people who are nominated, rather than just someone who passes a litmus test."

posted by Gelatin at 6:05 AM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

On the lighter side of the shambolic garbage monster that is now the Executive branch, the Trump white house is on track to fuck up the Easter Egg Roll:

The late start in planning by the Trump White House points to a smaller and less ambitious Egg Roll than in previous years. There may be half as many guests, a fraction of the number of volunteers to manage the invasion of the South Lawn, and military bands in place of A-list entertainers like Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Idina Menzel and Silentó who have performed for Egg Rolls past.
…
The evidence points to a quickly thrown-together affair that people close to the planning said would probably draw about 20,000 people — substantially smaller than last year’s Easter Egg Roll, which drew 37,000 — and be staffed by 200 volunteers, one-fifth of the usual number. These people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to describe the plans for the Easter Egg Roll, which are still evolving just a week before the event.

posted by murphy slaw at 6:10 AM on April 11, 2017 [21 favorites]

The Pigs elected a Democrat as their leader
posted by EarBucket at 6:13 AM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Stepping back a bit, while there's some logic to Markey's position, doing so would require 1) the uncontested appointment of a liberal justice to SCOTUS in order to make up for Obama's stolen pick and b) a revision of Senate rules such that a bare partisan majority can't change the rules in the middle of a session. And none of that should even be on the table until the Republicans atone and demonstrate they are willing to act in good faith, so it's basically a nonstarter.
posted by Gelatin at 6:15 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

the first time i read this i thought he was using "big league" as a verb but i think it's actually just an adjectival phrase being abused as an adverb?

Let's see, Big League Chew is owned by Ford Gum & Machine Co. in Akron, NY. Years ago, before acquiring the company, they paid Reagan to do voice spots for the product. They are the only large-scale manufacturer of gumballs in the US.

Maybe this whole "big league" thing can be explained by Turmp taking a payoff from big gumball? _{(Someone call Alex Jones).}
posted by aspersioncast at 6:23 AM on April 11, 2017

Pigs elected a Democrat as their leader.

That's a porcine of things to come.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:27 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yes, I believe the evidence does point to senility and/or dementia of our toddler in chief.

But that is the icing on top of pathological narcissism and well below-normal levels of literacy and numeracy that have contributed to his lifelong overall incompetence, masked only by leveraged money and a fawning media.

He's a perfect storm of idiocy and charisma, and we bought it, hook, line & sinker.
posted by Dashy at 6:29 AM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

We?
posted by aspersioncast at 6:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

He's a perfect storm of idiocy and charisma, and we bought it, hook, line & sinker.

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public, but they've gotten lots of people killed that way.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:33 AM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Stepping back a bit, while there's some logic to Markey's position, doing so would require 1) the uncontested appointment of a liberal justice to SCOTUS in order to make up for Obama's stolen pick and b) a revision of Senate rules such that a bare partisan majority can't change the rules in the middle of a session. And none of that should even be on the table until the Republicans atone and demonstrate they are willing to act in good faith, so it's basically a nonstarter.

It shouldn't even be considered unless Gorsuch goes as step 1. If Markey believes SCOTUS nominees should require a higher number of votes then Gorsuch is illegitimate by his own logic. And then, yeah, there needs to be reform to the rules of the Senate to prevent what McConnell did from happening again, but that's actually a tough thing to do meaningfully because a lot of Senate rules are nothing but norms, and as we've been learning a lot this past year, the norms we rely on need to be codified as actual laws, with real teeth and nonpartisan enforcement. Something needs to be done to prevent rule changes like this, and something needs to be done about the way McConnell was able to refuse a hearing on Garland, but both are easier said than done - any law you make is very vulnerable to being struck down by SCOTUS because you're working within the constitutional constraints of "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member." and it's going to be tricky to go beyond that, and under those constraints there's really nothing stopping the next Republican Senate (god forbid) from just rolling back any changes.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:37 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yes, we. Not I, not you, but we. We are stuck with this now. Deeply sad, but deeply true.
posted by Dashy at 6:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

He's a perfect storm of idiocy and charisma, and we bought it, hook, line & sinker.

No, 46% of "us" voted for him, and our geographically imbalanced and undemocratic electoral system awarded him the win with a minority of the vote.

He "won", "legally", likely with the assistance of foreign intelligence operations directed against American interests. "We" didn't do shit, a confluence of events resulted in a minority President occupying the White House.

And yet the Republicans are acting like they won unanimous consent to upend a century of social contracts with no consideration whatsoever for the 65 million Americans who voted against them, and in fact utter contempt and punitive measures against the majority of the population.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [43 favorites]

Yes, we. Not I, not you, but we. We are stuck with this now. Deeply sad, but deeply true.

Yes, "we" are stuck.

No, "we" do not all bear the same responsibility.

And "they" need to be the ones who are never permitted to disclaim it.

"We" should never cede that ground for a single moment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

Angela Merkel is doing what many Americans wish they could, just pretending that Obama is still president and possibly baiting Trump into a meltdown: Obama heading to Germany in May to talk democracy with Merkel

Former President Barack Obama plans to reemerge on the international stage in late May, sitting down with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in her home country for a panel discussion about democracy.

The panel, part of a 500–year anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, is titled “Being Involved in Democracy: Taking on Responsibility Locally and Globally.”

The visit will coincide with the beginning of President Donald Trump’s summer tour of Europe. Trump, who once called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization “obsolete,” is scheduled to appear at a NATO leaders’ summit in Brussels the same day — May 25.

posted by gladly at 6:51 AM on April 11, 2017 [74 favorites]

I have been thinking that corb's despair might be answered by something akin to South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation hearings, in which forgiveness was granted to those willing to acknowledge their crimes and pledge to act in good faith. The thing is, doing so would force Republicans basically to admit they have been deceiving their own voters right along, so they may yet not see that path as to their advantage, unless they were truly facing the decades in the political wilderness their radicalism deserves.
posted by Gelatin at 6:54 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

It shouldn't even be considered unless Gorsuch goes as step 1. If Markey believes SCOTUS nominees should require a higher number of votes then Gorsuch is illegitimate by his own logic.

I agree. Part of any grand bargain should involve Gorsuch resigning (hopefully, to avoid impeachment) and being replaced by Garland, or if he is unwilling, a more liberal justice.
posted by Gelatin at 6:56 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Gorsuch isn't going to step down.

something needs to be done about the way McConnell was able to refuse a hearing on Garland, but both are easier said than done - any law you make is very vulnerable to being struck down by SCOTUS because you're working within the constitutional constraints

I agree that something needs to be done, but really the most effective thing to be done would be an amendment clarifying the mechanisms of "advice and consent", perhaps including implicit consent if a candidate is not formally rejected after X days.

The nice thing about this sort of amendment is that there aren't really good partisan grounds to dismiss it. It's a common-sense procedural matter.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:02 AM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

I was actually pushing back on the "bought it" part, because a lot of us (including every. single. person. contributing to these threads) didn't buy it for a second. But this doesn't really seem like a useful direction for the conversation to take.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:05 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gorsuch isn't going to step down.

I agree with that as well, because the only leverage would be an impeachment threat, and I doubt Democrats will have a 2/3 majority any time soon. Though, if they do within Gorsuch's term, that option to excise the Court of an illegitimate pick could be on the table.
posted by Gelatin at 7:19 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Eric Trump tells The Telegraph Nepotism is a 'beautiful thing' as he says US President's children are more likely to speak truth to power

“Is that nepotism? Absolutely. Is that also a beautiful thing? Absolutely. Family business is a beautiful thing. The same applies for Ivanka. Ivanka is by his side in Washington.”

Mr Trump argues that a family member was more likely to tell the President “no disrespect but you might want to think about this” or “maybe you crossed the line here” rather than someone who “will say yes just because you happen to be the boss.”

Greed is good; nepotism is beautiful; and I'm understanding why Eric doesn't normally talk so much.
posted by zachlipton at 7:23 AM on April 11, 2017 [60 favorites]

On the good news side, at least Eric doesn't want to go into politics!
But yeah, good point that Trump won't fire his children (well, maybe Tiffany if she joins the biz) for saying "uh, maybe you don't want to do that...."
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:28 AM on April 11, 2017

Honestly, they've got to do something about Don Jr.'s ambitions to run for governor. They can't leave Eric as the only one minding the business. And I think they know that. When they setup the not-remotely-blind trust, they made Don Jr. and their CFO as trustees and put Eric as the only member of an "advisory council" (though decisions are somehow supposed to be unanimous among all three of them). That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mr Trump argues that a family member was more likely to tell the President “no disrespect but you might want to think about this” or “maybe you crossed the line here” rather than someone who “will say yes just because you happen to be the boss.”

The party that says government should be run like a business, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for proving capitalism's critics right, pal.
posted by Gelatin at 7:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

NPR ran this story about a new "healthcare" bill on Monday morning. I haven't heard discussion about it anywhere else. But since Members of Congress will be in their districts this week and next, please keep the topic in mind when pressing them to serve the people. I don't think the repeal threat is dead. (TLDR: new plan separates cheaper to insure people out from those like me who are high risk.)
posted by puddledork at 7:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump won't fire his children

That is not how authoritarian parenting works, in my experience. Lots of parents cut their kids off and cut them out of their lives for questioning them. Child abuse is also a thing, and in some places so are "honor killings."

In fact what nepotism means is that the kids won't question their parent, who is the source of their livelihoods, their whole social support system, and to whom they have been conditioned to be obedient. That's why dictators and mob bosses put their kids in power in the first place. Because they can control them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [47 favorites]

Greed is good

Oh ffs, there was something I couldn't put my finger on. These two Trump Boys From Brazil still have that slicked-back, Gordon Gecko hairstyle, like they think it's still the 80s.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:39 AM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

saying the President was “a great thinker, practical not impulsive.”


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

*sniff*

eric… i …

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

*dies*
posted by murphy slaw at 7:47 AM on April 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

Last night I got a call from a polling company, and agreed to talk to them. It took 20 minutes, and the lady's voice was weirdly mechanical and accented -- like cartoonish, "Boris & Natasha" Eastern European.

It was a whole series of leading questions about whether Trump's policies and proposed budget are harmful to the good, hard-working people of America but good for parasitic oppressors, or the other -- wrong -- way. (This is called a push poll, right?)

When she asked me for a one-word description of the policies, and then the president himself, I offered "criminal," but she said it wasn't one of the options.

Anyway, it made my dinner late and took too long to do, but I was glad to be counted.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:48 AM on April 11, 2017 [27 favorites]

About 58% of eligible voters voted in the 2016 election. Voter turnout was at a 20-year low. Trump was elected by a little more than a quarter of eligible voters.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:13 AM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Roger Ebert used to call that slicked-back 80s look Michael Douglas Means Business Hair.
posted by EarBucket at 8:14 AM on April 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'm of two minds on that with push polls. I'm happy to be a data point that goes against the answers they want. OTOH, I'm not sure they actually capture any data that way. At least part of the point of a push poll is to deliver a message TO someone rather than collecting data FROM someone. If that's true, what use is there in recording the results? If there aren't any results for me to skew then why am I wasting my time with this?

But what if they call enough people like me and Wenestvedt to screw up the results?

This being metafilter, I hope someone with some expertise in this area will have more insight.
posted by VTX at 8:18 AM on April 11, 2017

I just assume that no one is actually collecting data with push polls--it's not like the questions have any validity so any data would be garbage anyway. They're just another way of campaigning. The last one I got was on behalf of Pat Toomey and I kept the woman on the line for the whole thing (and purposefully gave the "wrong" answer every time) just because the longer she stayed on with me, the less time she'd have to contact other people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:22 AM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

About 58% of eligible voters voted in the 2016 election. Voter turnout was at a 20-year low. Trump was elected by a little more than a quarter of eligible voters.

2016, 2010, 2000. Nobody ever fucking shows up for the actually important shit.
posted by Talez at 8:24 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

2016, 2010, 2000. Nobody ever fucking shows up for the actually important shit.

The Republicans core voters treat every election like it's important shit and that's why their leaders have the power that they do. Until liberals can be convinced that every opportunity to vote is important (and that laws allow them to do so in a reasonable way), we're fucked.
posted by Candleman at 8:28 AM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

Until liberals can be convinced that every opportunity to vote is important

Republican leadership was very very canny about creating a couple issues that the ENTIRE Republican base would instantly turn out for. Simple-to-understand issues that don't cost money (abortion, guns).

Democrats don't have that. Every Democrat is their own special snowflake with their own pet issue, because Big Tent etc.... I left that Casey town hall on Sunday feeling like we are our own worst enemy. A bunch of various groups had turned out Their People which resulted in Democrats shouting at other Democrats to shut the fuck up so issues other than The One Thing The Particular Group Showed Up To Hammer About could be discussed. You think all those people are going to unite at the ballot box? Nope.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:35 AM on April 11, 2017 [41 favorites]

US plans to bomb Syria and blame Assad, Vladimir Putin claims

Russia has information about a planned US air strike on Damascus involving chemical weapons that would be blamed on Syria’s Bashar al-Assad in an attempt to frame him, Vladimir Putin has claimed.

Without offering any proof to support the assertion, the Russian President made reference to strikes on suburbs in the south of the Syrian capital which he suggested would be the target of the supposed US raids.

I expect more chemical attacks which Russia will call false flag operations and avoidable escalation unfortunately.
posted by futz at 8:37 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

I guess two can play the game of just fucking lying all of the time.
posted by Artw at 8:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

I hate it when I see these stories about some lie that Russia is telling, because I KNOW that lie will show up in my Facebook feed within a couple of days.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Republican leadership was very very canny about creating a couple issues that the ENTIRE Republican base would instantly turn out for. Simple-to-understand issues that don't cost money (abortion, guns).

one would hope that not being viciously exploited by a wannabe aristocracy forever would be good enough?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:43 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Republicans core voters treat every election like it's important shit and that's why their leaders have the power that they do. Until liberals can be convinced that every opportunity to vote is important (and that laws allow them to do so in a reasonable way), we're fucked.

I would actually put a fair bit of the blame on the leadership of the Democratic Party, because for reasons that frankly pass all understanding, they spend much of their time dithering and cutting bait on elections that they've decided are unwinnable. Just this morning Donald Trump tweeted about the special election in Kansas for Mike Pompeo's seat because the Republicans are actually a little scared about it, but don't worry, Tom Perez already said that it's not worth spending money or time on that race, because he's saving their resources for . . . something?

I guess what I'm saying is that part of the reason the base of the Democratic Party has not been super energized about off-year elections is that the leadership has constantly signalled that they're not that big a deal and that no one should bother with them because they're already lost. It's incredibly frustrating.
posted by Copronymus at 8:48 AM on April 11, 2017 [29 favorites]

one would hope that not being viciously exploited by a wannabe aristocracy forever would be good enough?

I think we've seen that it's not.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:49 AM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mitch McConnell mounts a stirring defense of evil in today's WaPo: Sen. Mitch McConnell: Democrats reap what they have sown.
posted by scalefree at 8:50 AM on April 11, 2017

But what if they call enough people like me and Wenestvedt to screw up the results?

The number of polls that are taken is approximately a billion times the number of polls that ever see the light of day. That's because most polls aren't conducted by NBC News or Quinnipiac University -- they're conducted by campaigns who are measuring constituencies. And those internal polls include push polls, which have many purposes beyond telling you that Bob Democrat kills puppies. They're checking whether you are a Possible Republican or a Definite Democrat*; they're checking whether anyone in those categories is actually swung by the "Bob Democrat kills puppies" claims; they're getting that "Bob Demcocrat kills puppies" story onto social media (even if it's someone tweeting "I can't believe I just got #pushpolled with some dumb story about how Bob Democrat kills puppoes!", it still gets it out there); and others.

* -- A lot of data-crunching effort goes into this on an individual voter basis. Depending on your personal tolerance for contact, you may be helping your cause more by not giving them the what-for about how this push poll sucks and you love Bob Democrat, because then the side that is push-polling against him stops wasting resources on you.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

No mention of Merrick Garland there for some reason.
posted by Artw at 8:51 AM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

Or Russia.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

one would hope that not being viciously exploited by a wannabe aristocracy forever would be good enough?

Temporarily embarrassed aristocrats, part the millionth.
posted by Etrigan at 8:52 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

I hate it when I see these stories about some lie that Russia is telling, because I KNOW that lie will show up in my Facebook feed within a couple of days.

The really troubling thing is that Trump has shown that he is susceptible to these lies, as long as they get repeated in the right places (Breitbart, etc.). Plus, he has developed an adversarial relationship with the US intelligence community and it's not clear how much value he places in intelligence reports. So we may soon, if not already, have a situation where the President is making strategic decisions based off of Russian disinformation.
posted by parallellines at 8:59 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Republican leadership was very very canny about creating a couple issues that the ENTIRE Republican base would instantly turn out for. Simple-to-understand issues that don't cost money (abortion, guns).

And the Supreme Court. Republicans knew that the open seat was the real prize in this election, and they communicated it well to their base, who they've been training on this same message for 40 years. It's not an exaggeration to say that remaking SCOTUS as a permanent Republican policy making institution has been the primary goal of the entire conservative movement since the end of the Warren Court. They've hammered home to their base that the Court is the only way they're ever going to outlaw abortion again, at thus the only way Jesus ever returns to save all the babies, or whatever. The base knew this, and knew to show up for it, even if they hated Trump.

In contrast, Democrats have never had an opposing message of support for progressive (or even nominally liberal) judges on anywhere near the same scale or importance, and their base doesn't even see the value in a once in a lifetime opportunity to change direction on the Court. They ceded the issue from the moment Garland was nominated, but more than that, they couldn't even make it an issue because for 40 years, they hadn't laid the groundwork to explain why it was important.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:03 AM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

More Relevant Tales From The Town Hall: "We don't know it was Assad who used chemical weapons, maaan. Do your research before claiming that!"

Wake up sheeple! ugh.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:04 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Simple-to-understand issues that don't cost money (abortion, guns).

one would hope that not being viciously exploited by a wannabe aristocracy forever would be good enough?

There you go again with your big words. That's not a message to voters, it's a dissertation. Democrats need to coalesce around one thing now: Medicare For All. Notice how I didn't say "universal health care," because that's Socialist.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:04 AM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

Healthcare is seeming like it maybe actually is a thing. All the potential impoverishment and dying shaking people up I guess.
posted by Artw at 9:05 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I guess two can play the game of just fucking lying all of the time.

Russian double-sleeper agent Bennie "Grain Pyramids" Cartoon runs HUD into ground to promote Chechen concentration camps!
posted by aspersioncast at 9:08 AM on April 11, 2017

Government Accountability Office investigating Trump's transition

The accountability office is also going to look into what financial disclosure and ethics information the Office of Government Ethics (OGE) made available, as well as what "information and services" tied to speaking with other governments were given to then-President-elect Trump and Vice President Pence's transition team.

Warren and Cummings sent a letter to the comptroller general late last year asking for a "review of President-Elect Trump's taxpayer-funded transition" including financial conflicts of interests, if Trump's team broke rules when talking with foreign leaders and taxpayer funds used for the transition.
posted by futz at 9:10 AM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

So for his own good, he ought to make them public. And the big mystery is why he hasn’t."

That's some subtle shade, there. Obviously the reason Trump hasn't is because he feels he has something to hide; the big mystery is what that something (or somethings!) is.
posted by Gelatin at 9:12 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Government Accountability Office investigating Trump's transition

It still exists?
posted by Artw at 9:15 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

i can't decide if the big secret is that he's way poorer than advertised or that the majority of his debt is undersigned by vladimir putin himself.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:15 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Things we can get people to rally around:

-Medicare for All
-Legal Weed
-Air and Water that Won't Kill You
-A Future That's Not a Burning Hellscape
posted by emjaybee at 9:15 AM on April 11, 2017 [50 favorites]

Who are the sheeple again?

@KFILE:
Democrats:
37% support Trump's Syria strikes
38% supported Obama doing it

GOP:
86% supported Trump doing it
22% supported Obama doing
[screenshot of poll]
posted by chris24 at 9:23 AM on April 11, 2017 [65 favorites]

> The really troubling thing is that Trump has shown that he is susceptible to these lies .... So we may soon, if not already, have a situation where the President is making strategic decisions based off of Russian disinformation.

Well, that's better* than the alternative that popped into my head, which is that he & Putin have backchannelled an agreement to collectively stage a disinformation campaign as a ruse to enable them both to attack Syria under the guise of fighting each other and then split the [sp]oils. And the thing is, because dude has never played Diplomacy (much less actually engaged in it), he doesn't know the knives are going to be in his (i.e., our) back after the next troop movements.
_______
* For certain values of "better."
posted by Westringia F. at 9:26 AM on April 11, 2017

@KFILE:
Democrats:
37% support Trump's Syria strikes
38% supported Obama doing it

GOP:
86% supported Trump doing it
22% supported Obama doing

Meanwhile, in Congress, Obama asked the Republicans for authorization to strike Syria and they refused; Trump strikes Syria without any authorization at all* and they're just fine with it.

*A serious Constitutional crisis, as the warmaking power -- regardless of whether Trump is commander in chief, thank you very much, Mitch McConnell! -- is vested in Congress alone, though they seem loath to take that kind of responsibility. So much for alleged Republican respect for the Constitution.
posted by Gelatin at 9:27 AM on April 11, 2017 [35 favorites]

Sen. Collins says she may run for Maine governor in 2018

If she does it could be a rare opportunity for a Democratic Senate pickup in 2018.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

"If there was anything that [Trump's authorization of the missile strike in Syria] did, it was to validate the fact that there is no Russia tie."


if eric trump was a stage magician, his patter would be like "and now i say the magic word 'Abracadabra' and flourish with this hand to distract you from me palming the card with my other hand!"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:32 AM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

Wow. I mean, I knew McConnell really had nothing going but the Big Lie, but damn is he ever going for the Big Lie.

The poor, innocent, Republicans were forced (forced I say) to get rid of the judicial filibuster because the Democrats are just unrelentingly obstructionist. Look, he shouts, what they did to poor Robert Bork (ignore that the Democrats of Reagan's era confirmed three of Reagan's appointees). Look at how the Democrats obstructed Junior (ignore the Gang of 7, ignore the lack of filibuster for almost everyone Junior appointed). The Republicans were totally reasonable and proper, they approved two of Obama's appointees so no one can possibly claim they ever obstructed anyone, and htat's why the unprecedented opposition of Gorsuch was intolerable to the rational and peaceful and totally non-obstructionist Republicans.

I'm almost in awe of his audacity and utter lack of shame. And I'm depressed because I know the Big Lie works most of the time, and the Democrats don't seem to fight back well.
posted by sotonohito at 9:33 AM on April 11, 2017 [32 favorites]

Sen. Collins says she may run for Maine governor in 2018

If she does it could be a rare opportunity for a Democratic Senate pickup in 2018.

And an opportunity for a solid lock on the governorship, too, if the Democrats have sense to point out to Maine voters that Collins votes lockstep with the most extreme Republicans every time it counts. (To say nothing of tying her to Trump...)
posted by Gelatin at 9:34 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Perhaps the only thing I've ever agreed with Ted Cruz about is that Mitch McConnell is a damned liar.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wow. I mean, I knew McConnell really had nothing going but the Big Lie, but damn is he ever going for the Big Lie.

And the Washington Post saw fit to print those lies on their op-ed page.
posted by Gelatin at 9:37 AM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

- Trump might be heavily in debt to foreign banks

Russian ones, at the very least.
posted by emjaybee at 9:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I'm a bit annoyed with the Post for giving him space to lie. I mean, WTF guys? You don't have to be "even handed" by giving a liar the opportunity to lie.
posted by sotonohito at 9:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

And an opportunity for a solid lock on the governorship, too, if the Democrats have sense to point out to Maine voters that Collins votes lockstep with the most extreme Republicans every time it counts. (To say nothing of tying her to Trump...)

Did we not just have this election? We had literally the most terrible candidate since Nixon running for the fucking presidency and WWC voters didn't give a shit. WWC voters saw Trump had a plan and the Democrat's biggest message by far was "fuck that guy, right?"

WWC voters no longer give a shit if you're a terrible human being. They just want to know how you're going to give them a pony because they're white and deserve a pony god dammit.
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

of course, the most likely explanation is that eric learned everything he needed to know about subtlety and misdirection from dear old dad

Ron Estes is running TODAY for Congress in the Great State of Kansas. A wonderful guy, I need his help on Healthcare & Tax Cuts (Reform). -- @RealDonaldTrump

normally one doesn't put the euphemism in parentheses after the real term, but i'm not the president, what do i know
posted by murphy slaw at 9:43 AM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm a bit annoyed with the Post for giving him space to lie. I mean, WTF guys? You don't have to be "even handed" by giving a liar the opportunity to lie.

That goes for more than the op-ed pages, too. Sure, you need a quote from both sides, and New Gingrich taught Republicans more than 20 years ago to always charge their language with misleading terminology, but the media could fla-out refuse, for example, to quote a Republican saying "job-killing regulations," unless they could prove that said regulation's cost exceeded its benefit.

But to be "balanced," the media give Republicans a megaphone, and rarely challenge the lies they're duped into transmitting.
posted by Gelatin at 9:46 AM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

WWC voters no longer give a shit if you're a terrible human being. They just want to know how you're going to give them a pony because they're white and deserve a pony god dammit.

And when they don't get a pony, they'll continue to support you as long as you aren't perceived to have given Those People a pony.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:46 AM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

they'll even support you explicitly denying them ponies as long as you support civil asset forfeiture of Those People's ponies
posted by murphy slaw at 9:48 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

> WWC voters no longer give a shit if you're a terrible human being. They just want to know how you're going to give them a pony because they're white and deserve a pony god dammit.

Given that lower-income white people voted for trump at lower rates than wealthier white people, I think it is a misdirection to say "WWC" here. The problem is not the white working class in particular. The problem is whiteness.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:49 AM on April 11, 2017 [38 favorites]

And here's where I point out that Trump is historically unpopular, and that Collins, like Olympia Snowe before her, has made a career of selling herself as a "moderate, centrist, reasonable" Republican, in presumed contrast with the rabid neo-Confedeates in the rest of her caucus. That's a phony image that's vulnerable to tarnishing, if the Democrats have the sense that she votes lockstep whenever it counts.
posted by Gelatin at 9:52 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

On Trump and releasing income taxes, I have a genuine question: in order to see exactly to whom he owes money, don't we need to see his business tax returns for all of his companies as well as his personal tax returns? I ask this because I had heard that he had trouble getting business loans from U.S. sources. It would be good to know if his business loans give entities, foreign or domestic, leverage over him. This is particularly true where he refused to divest on assuming office.

tl; dr: Do we get a list of his business loans if we see a full personal tax return for a given year?
posted by Silverstone at 9:54 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

if eric trump was a stage magician, his patter would be like "and now i say the magic word 'Abracadabra' and flourish with this hand to distract you from me palming the card with my other hand!"

Eric Trump is George Oscar Bluth. I've heard worse theories.
posted by scalefree at 9:55 AM on April 11, 2017 [16 favorites]

I'd love to see who they put up as the Speaker replacement, the problem isn't Ryan, even though he is terrible both on substantive policy and just basic competence at the job, it's the Freedom Caucus. They make any working with Democrats utterly impossible, but also make demands that are so off the deep end the rest of the Republicans can't go along with them either.

There's not enough Republicans in either faction to pass anything alone, or to seat a new Speaker, and even if they found some other moron to take the job, the dynamic is the same.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:25 AM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

would you say that they're imprisoned by the freedom caucus
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 AM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

DuffelBlog: Pentagon Awards Contract To United Airlines To Forcibly Remove Assad

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon announced Tuesday it had awarded a sole-source contract to United Airlines for work related to the forcible removal of President Bashar al-Assad from Syria.

The contract, worth $2.1 billion, tasks the airline company with locating Assad, grabbing him from his seat in the presidential palace, and “dragging him out of Damascus by his arms.” The contract also notes that Assad should be “asked several times, politely” to give up his seat of power, though if he refuses, United workers should bloody his nose up a bit, according to the posting at FedBizOpps.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [33 favorites]

Jeff Sessions, pouring warm oil on the turbulent waters of US-Mexico relations.

In remarks to border patrol agents at the U.S.-Mexico border in Nogales, Arizona on Tuesday, Mr. Sessions spoke in stark terms about the threat he said illegal immigration poses.

“We mean criminal organizations that turn cities and suburbs into warzones, that rape and kill innocent citizens,” Mr. Sessions said, according to the text of his prepared remarks. “It is here, on this sliver of land, where we first take our stand against this filth.”

“This is a new era. This is the Trump era,” Mr. Sessions said.

[WSJ] Undocumented Immigrants Who Commit Crimes Face Tougher Policy

posted by murphy slaw at 10:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

Sen. Collins says she may run for Maine governor in 2018

If she does it could be a rare opportunity for a Democratic Senate pickup in 2018.

And an opportunity for a solid lock on the governorship, too, if the Democrats have sense to point out to Maine voters that Collins votes lockstep with the most extreme Republicans every time it counts. (To say nothing of tying her to Trump...)

I dunno, Maine citizens are very, very burned out from having LePage as governor.
posted by Melismata at 10:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

"If there was anything that [Trump's authorization of the missile strike in Syria] did, it was to validate the fact that there is no Russia tie."

It makes me a little nauseous to think this might in fact be how it goes over. If the US and Russia are back to trading barbs (and allegations of human rights violations) and fighting on not-quite-the-same-side in Syria, then the obvious talking point is "SEE? Trump isn't in Putin's pocket at all." This conclusion will be projected back in time, obviously he was never colluding with Putin, and then the whole issue of Russia meddling with the election gets swept under the rug.

Goddamn it.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

[The Freedom Caucus] make any working with Democrats utterly impossible, but also make demands that are so off the deep end the rest of the Republicans can't go along with them either.

It's almost as if the Freedom Caucus is a far-right fringe group whose ideas are way out of the mainstream, to the point where it would make the most sense for moderate Republicans to make common cause with the Democrats in order to enact an agenda that would be a compromise, yes, but would serve their constituents well.

Or I guess they could keep pretending like the Democrats are literally satan incarnate. That's an option too, I suppose.
posted by tocts at 10:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [50 favorites]

If life was a board game, Trump would be putting at least two piss tape tokens in the center of the board right now. Get to 6 and, well, it's self-explanatory.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on April 11, 2017

“We mean criminal organizations that turn cities and suburbs into warzones, that rape and kill innocent citizens,” Mr. Sessions said, according to the text of his prepared remarks. “It is here, on this sliver of land, where we first take our stand against this filth.”

Sounded better in the original German.

Ye gods.
posted by Gelatin at 10:33 AM on April 11, 2017 [36 favorites]

And: I'd love to see what those talking points were.

Nothing really interesting, Mostly about the size of Trump's inauguration crowd. And his hands.
posted by scalefree at 10:34 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sen. Collins says she may run for Maine governor in 2018

She's been talking about this for a while, and OMG how much I hope she does it.

Starting with: we ended up with LePage because we had three candidates for Governor both times he ran -- him, and true D (Michaud in '14), and a sort of middle of the road social progressive fiscal-conservative of the type we've elected a couple of times before (see also: James Longley, Angus King). The I (Elliot Cutler) acted as a spoiler both times, leaving us with LePage elected with under 50% of the vote.

So, last fall, Maine voted to institute ranked choice voting for many elections, including the Governors seat. Now, yes, its currently under judicial review, but very few people seriously think it won't be instituted (and a lot of us think it was actually smart to do the challenge now, vs. as some kind of post-election maneuver).

If ranked choice had been a thing either four or eight years ago, LePage would have gone down in flames, a distant third.

Now, add to that the brand new poll that tells us some things both about Collins and LePage. This poll tells us a few things:

- Collins' popularity is dropping. Not a huge amount (about six points), and she's still polls very well, but her "middle of the road" act is starting to look more and more thin to local voters. In '14 she won a majority in all 16 counties -- I strongly doubt she can win in Southern Maine if there were an election held today. The Devos thing, in particular, pissed of A LOT of people, as has her refusal to hold a town hall.

- Everyone hates LePage. Sure, he has an approval rating of around 48%, but let me quote the article: "LePage has a disapproval rating of 49 percent, putting him ninth from the bottom and two spots below Robert Bentley of Alabama — who resigned Monday because of a sex scandal. " The LePage "legacy" (such as it is) is not good. To the extent that his popularity seems to have increased, its basically because he hasn't done anything truly egregious lately. But the legislative session just started. In actually talking to his "supporters" you'll find that just about every one of them would prefer anyone else. Lots of head-shaking when you ask about him.

Maine Dems are gearing up for a fight over this seat, and it will be interesting to see who they run. I think its very possible that Michaud will run again, and if he does, it will be a battle for the ages. He and Collins come from similar backgrounds in the most rural parts of the State, and both have strong records to run on. There are progressive networks throughout the State that simply were not there even six months ago, and if there is one thing Mainer's hate, its someone running for a role like its their birthright to hold it, which I very much suspect Collins will do.

- King (and also Sen. Mitchell) will also play a big role, I think. King endorsed Collins for her Senate seat last time 'round, but I doubt he'll do so again. Were King and Mitchell to come out strongly for the D, they are both voices that hold a lot of weight here.

So, to sum up: we'll see what happens. But Maine Dems will welcome this fight, and the voters are ready to kick anything that smacks of LePage to the curb.
posted by anastasiav at 10:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

And: I'd love to see what those talking points were.

Nothing really interesting big, Mostly about the size of Trump's inauguration crowd. And his hands.

Fixed.
posted by Gelatin at 10:37 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

I like the idea of Democrats on a bumper sticker. The R's have long understood the vital necessity of being easily, quickly, understood to stand for something. We all know what hte R's want us to think they stand for, we might disagree about whether those are good things, or whether the R's really do stand for them, but the basic Republican Elevator Pitch is known to everyone in America:

Republicans stand for small government, family values, a strong military, and low taxes

There is no equivalent universally known (even if disputed) elevator pitch for the Democrats, which is one reason we so often find ourselves running on negatives ("we're not Trump", "we're not Bush", "we're not warmongering morons", "we're not heartless scumsuckers")

But, as everyone knows, it's damn hard to run a successful political campaign on "vote for us, we're not the other guy", even if the other guy is a literal baby eating demon. And when the Democrats do try to come up with positives, far too often they're in depth, thoughtful, long, positives. Which is great, I love depth and thoughtfulness, and I prefer long form discussion to bumper stickers.

But clearly a bumper sticker version of the Democratic Party is needful.

So what should it be? what's the elevator pitch? In fifteen words or less what (and be specific if you can) do Democrats stand for?

Democrats stand for....

Equality? Medicare for all? A fair economy? What?
posted by sotonohito at 10:39 AM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

Democrats stand for social justice, compassion, and equal treatment for all, surely?

[Edit -- changed "Republicans" to "Democrats" as I meant to do after copying and pasting originally!]
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I've already weighed in with my "Medicare For All" choice. One thing we've learned from the current clusterfuck is that people do want government health care now.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

“This is a new era. This is the Trump era,” Mr. Sessions said.

This new Reich, um, sorry, era... will it last 1,000 years?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Democrats stand for....

...freedom from want and freedom from fear.
posted by Gelatin at 10:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [44 favorites]

Equality? Medicare for all? A fair economy? What?

I said this in another political thread:

Look, I think the core bit about being a Democrat, or liberal, is that you give a even a little bit of shit about people outside your close circle. What's good for the minority is good for the whole, even if you suffer a few more pennies for it. That kind of thing.

So.. Democrats stand for their community.
posted by INFJ at 10:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

Oh, I like Gelatin's better.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:43 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh, I like Gelatin's better.

Thanks, but it isn't mine.
posted by Gelatin at 10:44 AM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Republicans stand for "me." Democrats stand for "us."
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:46 AM on April 11, 2017 [34 favorites]

> “We mean criminal organizations that turn cities and suburbs into warzones, that rape and kill innocent citizens,” Mr. Sessions said, according to the text of his prepared remarks. “It is here, on this sliver of land, where we first take our stand against this filth.”

I agree. We must smash the criminal organizations that turn cities and suburbs into warzones, that rape and kill innocent citizens. We must take a stand against this filth.

That's why I'm a police abolitionist.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:46 AM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

On Trump and releasing income taxes, I have a genuine question: in order to see exactly to whom he owes money, don't we need to see his business tax returns for all of his companies as well as his personal tax returns?

There are a few key things his complete returns would show:
-most of his real estate ventures are through LLCs (most likely taxed as partnerships as it's usually not advised to hold real estate in a C corp for tax purposes).
-those partnerships would have generated K-1s, which he has to include/declare on his returns -- these would show, among other things, his share of the partnership's liabilities.
-he likely has to file a FATCA disclosure of his foreign financial assets (he likely also had to file FBARs but those are not part of the official "tax return")
-is he as charitable as he claims and how does he report transactions with the DJT foundation
-what tax avoidance schemes has he been involved in (these may be officially disclosed, for penalty/statute of limitations reasons; or they may be apparent only to a trained eye).

The K-1s are the main thing. They will allow us to get a better picture of his holdings and facilitate journalists'/Congressional investigations.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:47 AM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

Can't the FBI already have access to Trump's tax information? Can't they just incorporate the tax info into their 20/20 Hindsight Campaign Tour: You Grabbed My Pussy so I Seized Your Assets Investigation?
posted by effluvia at 10:52 AM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

But the FBI intervened on Trump's behalf. They've had plenty to sink him long before now and sat on it. They're not going to save us, they're running cover for their man.

The FBI needs to be on the list with CBP as agencies that need a wholesale house cleaning, because they're completely rogue.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:54 AM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

I am tired of Republican pretending that they're the only ones who care about the Constitution. Therefore, I move that the Democrats adopt the chorus of Preamble song from Schoolhouse Rock as their official jingle.
posted by Gelatin at 10:56 AM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Thanks, melissasaurus! That explains a lot to me.
posted by Silverstone at 11:02 AM on April 11, 2017

“We mean criminal organizations that turn cities and suburbs into warzones, that rape and kill innocent citizens,”

They can totally rape and kill the non-innocent citizens though...
posted by srboisvert at 11:07 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Spicer today, on Syria: "We didn't use chemical in WW2. Someone as despicable as Hitler who didn't sink to the level of using chemical weapons."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:08 AM on April 11, 2017

Spicer just said not even "despicable" Hitler used chemical weapons, comparing to Assad's use of them.
-- @alivitali

i guess zyklon b was technically a pesticide
posted by murphy slaw at 11:08 AM on April 11, 2017 [55 favorites]

careful, spicy. you'll alienate 45's base if you keep saying things like that about 88.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:10 AM on April 11, 2017 [24 favorites]

"we want to block syrian refugees from entering the country because they love being in syria so much and we don't want them to do anything that they'll regret later"
posted by murphy slaw at 11:11 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

So: 'worse than Hitler, but we won't help anyone fleeing him.' That's some uncomfortable framing.

It's the American Way™
posted by Talez at 11:12 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

So are we sure about that Whitehouse chart where Spicer was in the "not-Neo Nazi" group?
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on April 11, 2017

it's a fine line between pants-on-head idiot and nazi
posted by murphy slaw at 11:23 AM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

MSNBC has had it with Spicer's bullshit.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:24 AM on April 11, 2017 [44 favorites]

METAFILTER: (HITLER GASSED MILLIONS)
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Spicer just said not even "despicable" Hitler used chemical weapons, comparing to Assad's use of them.
-- @alivitali

Oh, goody. Because things go great when Republican mouthpieces start comparing foreign leaders to Hitler.
posted by Gelatin at 11:26 AM on April 11, 2017

i guess zyklon b was technically a pesticide

this is actually an alt-right talking point on twitter

i wish i were kidding
posted by Existential Dread at 11:27 AM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

This feels uncomfortably close to crossing over with the "Hydra not really Nazis" conversation.
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

i guess it's good that spicer can pronounce hitler's name correctly? because he's fucked up assad's twice in one press conference? am i doing this right? this is where the bar is now, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 11:29 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Or Holocaust denial just gets normalized, which you have to suspect is was at least an administration stretch goal.
posted by Artw at 11:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

And an opportunity for a solid lock on the governorship, too, if the Democrats have sense to point out to Maine voters that Collins votes lockstep with the most extreme Republicans every time it counts. (To say nothing of tying her to Trump...)

Depends. Is Eliot Cutler going to emerge from the shadows again and split the vote?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:31 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Silly Murphy Slaw. There is no bar. Never has been.
posted by martin q blank at 11:32 AM on April 11, 2017

The "sink to the level" part is really the award winner. Oh, I see, Spicey -- you're saying that Adolf Hitler is morally superior to, well, anybody. I hope your Easter bunny suit is made of kevlar, buddy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:33 AM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump Administration to Pay Health Law Subsidies Disputed by House

This is big, one of the biggest ways the Trump administration could fuck with Obamacare would be to stop paying the cost-sharing subsidies to exchange participants. Not doing that, for now at least, means they're not going to pull out all the stops to ensure the wore possible outcome for the exchanges.

This isn't really a good sign. The premiums and contracts for 2017 are already signed and in place. The insurance companies are going to get the money owed to them for the subsidies they are already paying to customers this year one way or the other, even if they have to sue the government, to eventually get it.

The big unknown is 2018. There is a big lead time on state insurance bids and premiums. The bids and premiums are due from the insurance companies for 2018 in the next 30 days. Meanwhile, Republicans in congress have sued the executive branch to prevent the payouts since they can't muster the votes to actually change the law. Obama used the Justice Department to defend the payments. Who knows with Trump, but the signs aren't good.

So the insurance companies are bidding in the blind, not knowing if the Trump administration is going to defend the government's payment of the subsidies to the insurance companies next year. These bids are due next month for 2018. With this uncertainty, insurance companies could refuse to bid or else bid very high to cover the possibility that the government won't come through with the promised subsidies.

2018 could be a very bad year for Obamacare.
posted by JackFlash at 11:33 AM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

Republican leadership was very very canny about creating a couple issues that the ENTIRE Republican base would instantly turn out for. Simple-to-understand issues that don't cost money (abortion, guns).

One issue that seems like it might get people to vote is legal weed. It's got the same "hands off my rights" vibe as guns, but with much better science behind it. And I really feel like a vast majority of Americans think criminalization of it should end.

But then again maybe trying to rely on stoners to show up at the right time and place isn't the best strategy. But seriously, I think the party could do worse.
posted by threeturtles at 11:34 AM on April 11, 2017

Apparently Spicer clarified that Hitler didn't use weapons "on his own people" because Jews /= Germans I guess?
posted by emjaybee at 11:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [26 favorites]

It gets worse:
Spicer tries to clarify by saying that Hitler didn't "gas his own people" like Assad (b/c jews had been stripped of their citizenship by that point I guess???) and that Hitler's actions weren't as bad because they happened in "holocaust centers."

HOLOCAUST CENTERS.

WHAT.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:36 AM on April 11, 2017 [103 favorites]

These people have never once met a hole that they did not enthusiastically want to dig deeper.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:37 AM on April 11, 2017 [68 favorites]

Dictionary.com tweet 5 mins ago.

Gas chamber: an enclosure used for the execution of prisoners by means of a poisonous gas.
posted by Jalliah at 11:38 AM on April 11, 2017 [62 favorites]

Proper Holocaust deniers probably have more organized talking points tho.
posted by Artw at 11:38 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

then again maybe trying to rely on stoners to show up at the right time and place isn't the best strategy

I'd have to guess that most conservative-leaning stoners just voted for Johnson?
posted by aspersioncast at 11:38 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm having a hard time parsing any fucking difference here, Spicey. Assad gassing children in the streets is somehow worse than trucking children to a camp, forcibly separating them from their mothers, and then gassing them? How the fuck did this ever enter your brain as a talking point? How the fuck did this even come up?
posted by Existential Dread at 11:39 AM on April 11, 2017 [49 favorites]

On the plus side, it's kind of hard to be a holocaust denier when you use a term like holocaust center.
posted by emelenjr at 11:39 AM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Oh dear god, my friend who owns a PR crisis firm is surely laughing her ass off right now. Because the #1 piece of advice she gives to every client is: SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH, GENIUS.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:40 AM on April 11, 2017 [32 favorites]

Oh dear god, my friend who owns a PR crisis firm is surely laughing her ass off right now. Because the #1 piece of advice she gives to every client is: SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH, GENIUS.

Which is great, because Spicer is the President's spokesperson.
posted by Gelatin at 11:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

Just to be clear, the Trump camps will kill by neglect, not deliberately.
posted by Artw at 11:41 AM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Whether Spicer is doing what he's doing intentionally or not doesn't matter at this point. This is is Holocaust denial however he tries to parse it, and I hope nobody excuses it. And yes, ADL and SWC, I'm looking at you.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:42 AM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

It's almost like the White House Senior Strategist is a Nazi or something.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:44 AM on April 11, 2017 [33 favorites]

My thoughts on the appropriate response to Spicer's recent statements.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:45 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Just to be clear, the Trump camps will kill by neglect, not deliberately.

The OG Nazis did that, too.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:46 AM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

So: 'worse than Hitler, but we won't help anyone fleeing him.' That's some uncomfortable framing.

@daveweigel: Even if you follow the logic, "he's worse than Hitler" is not a great set-up to "that's why we won't commit troops."
posted by zombieflanders at 11:47 AM on April 11, 2017 [47 favorites]

I'm having a hard time parsing any fucking difference here, Spicey. Assad gassing children in the streets is somehow worse than trucking children to a camp, forcibly separating them from their mothers, and then gassing them? How the fuck did this ever enter your brain as a talking point? How the fuck did this even come up?

This is the standard thing with Spicey. He's (passably, marginally) OK as long as he's reading haltingly from his usually massive prepared statement for the day. But the minute he goes off-script, he's just dreadful -- incoherent and rambling and uncomfortable. I mean, not as bad as Trump, but he's just not great at thinking on his feet. I kind of get that because I get flustered myself in some public speaking situations and have an innate knack for coming up with dumb or unhelpful examples or phrasing off the cuff or doing foot-in-mouth.

But then, I'm not the PRESS SECRETARY of the fucking WHITE HOUSE and would never apply for such a job, knowing my limitations. You'd think they could get someone at least vaguely C.J. Cregg-ish if they tried.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:49 AM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

The OG Nazis did that, too.

What? The OG Nazis neglectfully forgot not to gas the Jews and other scapegoats with Zyklon-B?
posted by Talez at 11:49 AM on April 11, 2017

Poor Sarah Kendzior‏

@sarahkendzior So I go to Target for one hour and while I was gone the Trump admin apparently decided that Hitler didn't have gas chambers?
posted by emjaybee at 11:51 AM on April 11, 2017 [41 favorites]

I'll never know exactly what it felt like to live in America when the St. Louis, loaded with Jews fleeing Germany, was turned away, but I suspect it wasn't all that different from listening to the government explain that Assad is worse than Hitler, but refugees are dangerous and we can't let one of them ever reach our shores.
posted by zachlipton at 11:52 AM on April 11, 2017 [26 favorites]

This is like the fourth? fifth? (unless I missed some) highly public instance of Holocaust denial or casual anti-Semitism by this White House, so they need to be stomped good and hard.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:52 AM on April 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

April Ryan's reaction to Spicer's Hitler comments says it all.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:53 AM on April 11, 2017 [58 favorites]

Yesterday...the "worse than Hitler" talking point seems to have come straight from Newsmax and Neil Cavuto interviewing a Syrian survivor on FOX Business. FOX -> White House -> Spicerism. They don't even do their own press homework, they just watch FOX all day and lift from whatever catches Trump's or Bannon's attention. And here you know they went straight for the Holocaust denying.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:55 AM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Spicey's statement: "In no way was I trying to lessen the horrendous nature of the Holocaust, however, I was trying to draw a contrast of the tactic of using airplanes to drop chemical weapons on innocent people."

As a broad generally applicable rule, if you're ever about to start a sentence with "In no way was I trying to lessen the horrendous nature of the Holocaust, however," you should shut the hell up.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on April 11, 2017 [69 favorites]

According to Glenn Greenwald, this exact take was really big on alt-rightneo-Nazi Twitter last week.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:56 AM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

April Ryan's reaction to Spicer's Hitler comments says it all.

Oh man, Spicer knows at this point that he has totally stepped in it. He can't even get out a subject followed by a verb. He's like speaking self-taught Esperanto or something.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:56 AM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

That Spicer clip deserves a verbatim transcript

I I think when you come to sarin gas, uh, there was no, he was not using the gas on his own people the same way that Ashad is doing - I mean there was clearly I - I - I - I understand - [crosstalk] - thank you, thank you, I appreciate that - there was... not, in the, in the he brought 'em to, to, uhm, to the Holocaust centers - I understand that - but on the saying in the way the Assad used them where he went into towns, dropped 'em down to innocent into the middle of towns, it was brought to it, so the use of it I appreciate the clarification. That was not the intent.

posted by 0xFCAF at 11:57 AM on April 11, 2017 [35 favorites]

"I was trying to draw a contrast of the tactic of using airplanes to drop chemical weapons on innocent people."

Fuck you, you're contrasting that with forcing innocent people into gas chambers?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:58 AM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

That Spicer clip deserves a verbatim transcript

The White House press secretary, ladies and gentlemen. Give him a hand!

Because he badly, badly needs one...
posted by Gelatin at 11:58 AM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

During Passover, no less.
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 AM on April 11, 2017 [47 favorites]

It's gonna be a banner fucking day for Doug Feith when he learns that he's been promoted to Second Dumbest Fucking Guy On The Planet.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:59 AM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Fuck you, you're contrasting that with forcing innocent people into gas chambers?


Yeah, the only way that sentence even parses is the suggestion that Jewish people suffering the Holocaust were not innocent, which... heurrrrgh.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 12:00 PM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

So, was the order of the day to not let United Airlines dominate the news cycle again?
posted by nubs at 12:00 PM on April 11, 2017 [26 favorites]

So Bob Odenkirk gets to play Spicer in the movie, right?
posted by valkane at 12:02 PM on April 11, 2017 [40 favorites]

WH just sent out an updated clarification from Spicer, changing “innocent people” to “population centers” at the end.

We're on the 4th? correction now and they're still making it worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:02 PM on April 11, 2017 [48 favorites]

According to Glenn Greenwald, this exact take was really big on alt-rightneo-Nazi Twitter last week.

Whether Spicy himself holds these sort of views I suspect that with people like Bannon and Miller around he hears them, and hear the types of words and phrases he uses. And since I don't think Spicy is super bright and gets flustered he falls back to repeating crap and phrases he may be hearing frequently in discussions. He reminds me of someone who mimics more then he thinks for himself and with the types that are around in this admin it gets him into trouble over and over. This is a fatal flaw for someone in PR.

From an outside perspective it's good though. I think it does potentially provide some insight into the types of discussions that are going on behind the doors.
posted by Jalliah at 12:02 PM on April 11, 2017 [27 favorites]

Not only does it not imply that those killed in the Holocaust were not innocent, it implies that they weren't Hitler's "own people" when many of them objectively were.
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on April 11, 2017 [26 favorites]

Also, about Spicer's whole, "We [U.S.] didn't use chemicals during WWII" thing, um, napalm? It was definitely used in anti-personnel applications in the Pacific theatre and possibly Europe too, wasn't it?
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:04 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh man. The caption underneath the ABC News video on Twitter is "Press Sec. clarifies Hitler comments". Do you know how you know if you're doing a really bad job as a press secretary? When there's a video of you captioned with "Press Sec. clarifies Hitler comments". Jesus Christ. This shit is getting way too dark and way too absurd.
posted by mhum at 12:04 PM on April 11, 2017 [78 favorites]

The headlines are already written. I don't think they are doing Spicey any favors.

USA Today: Sean Spicer: 'Hitler didn't even sink to using chemical weapons'
NY Daily News: Press Secretary Sean Spicer says Hitler 'didn't even sink to using chemical weapons'
WaPo: Sean Spicer: 'Someone as despicable as Hitler didn't even sink to using chemical weapons'
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:04 PM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

One issue that seems like it might get people to vote is legal weed. It's got the same "hands off my rights" vibe as guns, but with much better science behind it. And I really feel like a vast majority of Americans think criminalization of it should end.

Fundies can probably be turned around on opposing legal weed on the grounds that it's not as bad as alcohol. I've even managed to win over a couple of the Picket Fences/Eisenhower types on those grounds (I swear the really old ones talk like they're still bitter Prohibition failed so utterly). They cannot be swayed in their belief that abortion is state-sanctioned genocide because of Psalm 139:13, which is the greater moral point in their ethical calculus. Lost cause as far as votes go, because of that.

The only thing that approaches swaying them is that the under-60 subset are increasingly concerned about climate change, mollified somewhat by the idea that if the Rapture really is only 2-3 generations out then it's a moot point. Still, Psalms 19:1-6 and 65:9-13 suggest at least some responsibility on their part to not fuck up God's creation too badly, and I think there's some basic herd instinct "this may be an existential threat to my kids and grandkids" steadily mounting. The reason this shit's still with us 2000 years later is that it is a Breeder-centric ideology at least on some level.

But abortion trumps all other considerations - pardon the pun - and they view it as an active, present-day Holocaust. I don't see anything changing that situation.
posted by Ryvar at 12:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, was the order of the day to not let United Airlines dominate the news cycle again?

They're not going out without a fight: United says the flight — where a man was dragged off, screaming — was not overbooked
posted by zombieflanders at 12:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

Spicer's flowchart notes for next briefing

/--------------------------------------------\
|                                            |
| Should I use Hitler as a comparison point? |
|                                            |
\--------------------------------------------/
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    V
                 /------\
                 |  NO  |
                 \------/

posted by 0xFCAF at 12:07 PM on April 11, 2017 [61 favorites]

Also, about Spicer's whole, "We [U.S.] didn't use chemicals during WWII" thing, um, napalm? It was definitely used in anti-personnel applications in the Pacific theatre and possibly Europe too, wasn't it?

Do incendiary bombs count?
posted by Gelatin at 12:07 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the only way that sentence even parses is

I can't even get close to parsing it.

I don't know whether that's a defense mechanism kicking in after recognizing all the words involved, or just a failure of imagination on my part, but I just can't even. Again.
posted by Dashy at 12:08 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

They're not going out without a fight: United says the flight — where a man was dragged off, screaming — was not overbooked

*Watches weekly quota of evens fly out the window. Checks pocket for fucks left to give.
posted by nubs at 12:08 PM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

Anne Frank Center statement
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:09 PM on April 11, 2017 [25 favorites]

I think Spicer/WH is now up to three or four clarifications of their previous clarifications in like an hour. Because apparently the goal is to keep this in the Breaking News for the entire week if possible.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:10 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

"We [U.S.] didn't use chemicals during WWII" thing, um, napalm? It was definitely used in anti-personnel applications in the Pacific theatre and possibly Europe too, wasn't it?

Conventional incendiary - area denial, removal of tactical cover. Not something with the sole purpose of fumigating humans. Agent Orange in Vietnam approaches chemical warfare, but it's more in a casual "we don't give a fuck what the long term consequences to your water supply are," rather than a deliberate "now applying Raid For People(tm) to your town."

Which is not to say you can't commit horrific atrocities with napalm (Dresden, bunch of wood-structure-heavy Japanese cities), just that it's not categorized as a chemical weapon, and that the distinction is at least somewhat justified.
posted by Ryvar at 12:10 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

In no way was I trying to lessen the horrendous nature of the Holocaust, however, I was trying to draw a contrast of the tactic of using airplanes to drop chemical weapons on innocent people

So the problem with Assad, what ranks him higher than Hitler on the "despicable" scale, is that he used airplanes. Way to clarify there.
posted by mikepop at 12:11 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Spicer's flowchart notes for next briefing

Someone needs to tell Spicer that Godwin's Law should only apply to the internet, not press briefings.
posted by nubs at 12:11 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Bay Area people: Dianne Feinstein is finally holding a town hall next week. Tickets are likely to go fast, so now's your chance.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

Another 'How Not to Do PR' lesson is added to course syllabi everywhere.
posted by Jalliah at 12:12 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't actually want Spicey fired. I'm terrified that the Trump administration could accidentally bring in someone competent.
posted by gladly at 12:13 PM on April 11, 2017 [23 favorites]

Spicer is trying a 4th attempt now, adding an additional sentence: "Any attack on innocent people is reprehensible and inexcusable." So he's trying to get both "population centers" and "innocent people" in there.

Does he know these statements aren't drafts; we can see all of them? This is really the "sorry, sorry, I'm trying to delete it" Presidency.
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on April 11, 2017 [32 favorites]

I don't actually want Spicey fired. I'm terrified that the Trump administration could accidentally bring in someone competent.

The preponderance of evidence suggests your concern is unfounded.
posted by Gelatin at 12:15 PM on April 11, 2017 [37 favorites]

Spicer's flowchart notes for next briefing
etc.

The thing that's most astonishing is that there will be a next briefing. I mean, here's one guy who has delivered final proof of being absolutely incompetent at the job he's doing, and no, he won't be reassigned to peeling carrots or clipping the hedges whatnot else better suited, he'll just pop up again behind that silly podium and stammer some other shit.
posted by Namlit at 12:15 PM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

Spicer is trying a 4th attempt now, adding an additional sentence: "Any attack on innocent people is reprehensible and inexcusable."

That's five, including his original statement.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Well, who but a Nazi would deny that Karl Marx was a German because he was a Jew?"
--Edward G. Robinson in The Stranger (1946)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:16 PM on April 11, 2017 [20 favorites]

Oh dear (and I don't know whether to laugh or cry right now)


Politico Europe: Sarin gas, the weapon believed to have been used by Assad, was first created and used by Nazi scientists in 1938
posted by Jalliah at 12:16 PM on April 11, 2017 [61 favorites]

I don't actually want Spicey fired. I'm terrified that the Trump administration could accidentally bring in someone competent.

Competent people won't repeat and defend the President's batshit lies. And Trump won't permit someone to be out there who won't parrot the lies. So don't count on it ever getting less nutbar.
posted by dis_integration at 12:17 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Spicer is trying a 4th attempt now, adding an additional sentence: "Any attack on innocent people is reprehensible and inexcusable."

Any attack, you say?
posted by Gelatin at 12:17 PM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

So: 'worse than Hitler, but we won't help anyone fleeing him.' That's some uncomfortable framing.

This is really the key point, I think. However inelegantly (i.e., really stupidly) Spicer said it, the intent behind his statement was to convey that Assad is worse on his own citizens than Hitler was.

If that's so (even if the comparison reeks) then the Trump Administration's efforts to turn away refugees from Syria becomes especially odious.

I mean, if they really, actually believe that Assad is worse than Hitler, then Trump, et. al, are more evil than those who refused sanctuary to Jews fleeing the Holocaust. There's really no way to get around this conclusion, right?
posted by darkstar at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2017 [51 favorites]

It's true that competent people have run far away from working for 45, but I know what you mean; what about an evil competent person?

But then a truly competent evil person would be a threat because they'd show up Bannon, so perhaps they wouldn't get hired either.

Fuck if I know.
posted by emjaybee at 12:20 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

In order to work for trump, you have to be:

Stupid
Incompetent
Mental
a Nazi
Family

Oh, wait, these things are all in the same, evidently.
posted by valkane at 12:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

This is the Veepiest thing I've seen so far.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:24 PM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

the main part of it still doesn't make any sense, nobody in whatever they have instead of a communications department can write a sentence. "I was trying to draw a distinction of" ?? you draw a distinction between things, not of them. and you have to have more than one thing to distinguish between or among them.

but he wants to be able to say he's not favorably comparing Hitler to Assad, even though he did, so instead he just says, like, 'I am comparing Assad of a dictator.' it is sincerely sub-grade-school illiteracy. you can't take your nazi paragraph and take out all the nazi parts and expect it to still read grammatically, sean! you have to write a whole new one. I know, it is hard. but this kind of thing is my job as well as his, and it is terrifying on a separate level.

this is textbook "if you can't think clearly, you can't write clearly," as I used to tell people I was the boss of. nobody in Trump PR or communications can do either and they cannot hide it because they do not know how to read. not a joke. they know their letters and they can make words in print, but they cannot read. or write, or think.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:24 PM on April 11, 2017 [28 favorites]

What? The OG Nazis neglectfully forgot not to gas the Jews and other scapegoats with Zyklon-B?

Nazi Germany maintained two primary types of camps: concentration camps (where people were forced to do hard labor) and extermination camps (where people were killed immediately). Many of the prisoners that died in the concentration camps died "through deliberate maltreatment, disease, starvation, and overwork, or were executed as unfit for labor."

The Nazis distinguished between extermination and concentration camps, although the terms extermination camp (Vernichtungslager) and death camp (Todeslager) were interchangeable, each referring to camps whose primary function was genocide. Todeslagers were designed specifically for the systematic killing of people delivered en masse by the Holocaust trains. The executioners did not expect the prisoners to survive more than a few hours beyond arrival at Belzec, Sobibór, and Treblinka.
...
Death camps differed from concentration camps located in Germany proper, such as Bergen-Belsen, Oranienburg, Ravensbrück, and Sachsenhausen, which were prison camps set up prior to World War II for people defined as 'undesirable'.
...
The distinction was evident during the Nuremberg trials, when Dieter Wisliceny (a deputy to Adolf Eichmann) was asked to name the extermination camps, and he identified Auschwitz and Majdanek as such. Then, when asked "How do you classify the camps Mauthausen, Dachau, and Buchenwald?" he replied, "They were normal concentration camps, from the point of view of the department of Eichmann."

For example, a reported 31,951 people were killed at Dachau out of over 188,000 that were sent there. "An estimated 1.3 million people were sent to [Auschwitz], of whom at least 1.1 million died."
posted by kirkaracha at 12:25 PM on April 11, 2017 [27 favorites]

Shame we don't have a decent holocaust center in our neighborhood.

Be careful what you ask for.
posted by Candleman at 12:30 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

So, on a related anti-semitism/Nazi thing, I just saw the third use of a (((triple-parentheses))) around a name in the past two days, one of which was related to the Spicer comment.

Realizing it must be some new meme of which I was ignorant, I went searching and, sure enough, it is a way for white supremacists and Nazis to signify Jews without it being explicit or showing up in internet searches. >:-|

How fucked up in the head can these people be, seriously?
posted by darkstar at 12:30 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Jimmy Fallon will be hosting SNL this weekend, live in all four time zones.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:32 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

How fucked up in the head can these people be, seriously?

You want a list? Because I've got a list right here. It's a long one.
posted by Floydd at 12:33 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Basically, anytime you see a comment about Jared Kushner that's attributed to Bannon, there are implied triple-parens around key words, like democrat or globalist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:33 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

We don't need a bloody list for this any more. That's why I'm so depressed about it all.
posted by Namlit at 12:34 PM on April 11, 2017

Jimmy Fallon? I guess Trump can rest easy this weekend.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:36 PM on April 11, 2017 [20 favorites]

So, on a related anti-semitism/Nazi thing, I just saw the third use of a (((triple-parentheses))) around a name in the past two days, one of which was related to the Spicer comment.

Realizing it must be some new meme of which I was ignorant, I went searching and, sure enough, it is a way for white supremacists and Nazis to signify Jews without it being explicit or showing up in internet searches. >:-|

To be fair, a lot of Jewish Twitter users have also adopted the ((())) around their own names as a show of defiance over the last year.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2017 [20 favorites]

I got a very small amount of alt-right harassment on twitter back in the fall that started out generically obnoxious and then got very, very, very explicit about the things that should happen to Jewish women when it was noticed that I was Jewish. Coded parenthetical identification is the very, very least of it.
posted by ChuraChura at 12:38 PM on April 11, 2017 [25 favorites]

Also pointing out that the millions of Jews were just plain old shot and buried in mass graves in the parks of their hometowns.

The Nazis were varied and inventive in their attempts to kill people. Just in general, it's safer to say that if there is a proven way to kill folks that was around then, the Nazis probably tried it.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:39 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Realizing it must be some new meme of which I was ignorant, I went searching and, sure enough, it is a way for white supremacists and Nazis to signify Jews without it being explicit or showing up in internet searches.

Be aware that there are a lot of Jewish people (for example, Ron Kampeas, DC bureau chief for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency) that are using it as a way to re-appropriate it.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:39 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Personal thought: What stuff will Trump et. al. try to pull today now that Spicey has grabbed all of the headlines? We've already got Sessions referring to immigrants as "filth".

Watch for the articles that aren't making headlines today.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:39 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

How fucked up in the head can these people be, seriously?

Nazi: Hi! We're the people that want to kill all your family and friends!

Steve Rogers: Really?

Nazi: Yep!

Steve: And you think that's gonna work out well for you?

Nazi: Yep!

Steve: *Punch*
posted by valkane at 12:41 PM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

In December 1943 Germany bombed an Allied port in Bari, Italy. One of the ships, the SS John Harvey, was carrying a secret cargo of 2,000 mustard gas bombs; mustard gas that was released during the attack.

A total of 628 military victims were hospitalized with mustard gas symptoms, and by the end of the month, 83 of them had died. The number of civilian casualties, thought to have been even greater, could not be accurately gauged since most had left the city to seek shelter with relatives.

posted by kirkaracha at 12:42 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Assad has camps too.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:48 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

remember when people used ((())) to mean hugs?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

@ScottFConroy:
This is the day Sean Spicer became Press Secretary.
posted by chris24 at 12:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [61 favorites]

Seen on my FB:

Uber: "We're going to have the worst PR situation of the first half of 2017!"
Pepsi: "Hold my Pepsi"
United: "Not so fast, Pepsi"
*lights go dark*
*terrifying organ music plays*
In-Ring Announcer: "BY GOD. IT'S SEAN SPICER. HE'S BACK AND HE'S GOING FOR THE TITLE. WRESTLEMANIA WILL NEVER BE THE SAME."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [145 favorites]

There is some discussion on Twitter that "Hitler never used chemical weapons on the *battlefield*, whereas Assad has", but the fact is that Assad, like the Germans, uses nerve agents on deliberately on civilians. As both a terror weapon, and for extermination. The Assad war is one of extermination. There's no other way to put it.

So even the "but, actually" arguments are wrong, wrong, wrong (not just Spicer).
posted by My Dad at 12:57 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

In December 1943 Germany bombed an Allied port in Bari, Italy.

Churchill was also very enthusiastic about chemical weapons, and the UK sold chemical weapons to Russia to use against the Bolsheviks.

Not against his "own people," but that seems like an insignificant distinction to me.

"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," he declared in one secret memorandum. He criticised his colleagues for their "squeamishness", declaring that "the objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable. Gas is a more merciful weapon than [the] high explosive shell, and compels an enemy to accept a decision with less loss of life than any other agency of war."

posted by Coventry at 12:59 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

remember when people used ((())) to mean hugs?

That's still what it means! So when people type (((cucks))) I assume they're giving all those people they hate giant hugs.
posted by INFJ at 1:01 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

As anyone who holds blue chip stocks could tell you, unpredictability is not necessarily a good thing.
posted by Gelatin at 1:04 PM on April 11, 2017

Handy gifs to April Ryan and Ashley Parker's reactions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:07 PM on April 11, 2017 [21 favorites]

: Trump promised an ‘unpredictable’ foreign policy. To allies, it looks incoherent.

What does it look like to enemies? I fear that inconsistent messaging and unpredictability lead to wars.
posted by nubs at 1:08 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

unpredictable foreign policy in action [gif]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:11 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Apologies for the length of this twitter thread--I thought it was worth reading.
Angus Johnston @studentactivism
Just quickly, on Spicer: No, the outrage—I'd call it revulsion, but whatever—isn't misplaced.

Set aside the callous obliviousness of the suggestion that the Jews of the Reich weren't Hitler's "own people."

Set aside the excruciating inappropriateness of the original phrasing, and that of the first "clarification," and that of the second.

What you're left with—in the most generous possible reading—is a cynical, stupid invocation of the Holocaust for political gain.

There's no "misspoke" here. Underneath the historical ignorance and the ham-handed language and the moral obtuseness, there's nothing.

Note that the "he misspoke" brigade aren't articulating what he "meant to say," because there's no he-meant-to-say that's not insipid.

And of course the context here is the contemporary political salience of Holocaust denial.

I don't think Spicer is a Holocaust denier. But his words today revealed him as stupid and ignorant in ways that he has no right to be.

A personal story, relevant I promise. A few summers ago, I took my kids, then eleven and seven, to Paris for the first time.

One morning we were wandering around our neighborhood there, and came across a small park. In it, we found an odd sculpture and a plaque.

We'd already visited the Anne Frank house and a Dutch Resistance museum, so when I saw it was a Holocaust memorial, I started reading aloud.

My French wasn't strong enough to skip ahead, so I was reading as I was translating, translating as I was speaking:

"Arrested by the police of the Vichy government, complicit with the Nazi occupation, more than 11,000 children...

…were deported from France between 1942 and 1944, and murdered at Auschwitz because they were born Jewish.

More than 500 of these children lived in the 3rd Arrondissement [the neighborhood in which we were staying].

"Among them were 87 little ones who had not yet come to the age at which they would attend school."

"Read here their names. Your remembrance of them is their only gravesite."

And then the names, beginning with Sarah Adamowicz, three years old.

By this point, of course, I'm weeping.

I tell this story because last week Marine Le Pen, candidate for the French presidency, denied French responsibility for those kids' deaths.

"I don't think France is responsible" for the deportations to Auschwitz, she said. "This is not France."

Marine Le Pen is a leading candidate for the French presidency and Trump's closest ideological sibling in French politics.

She is also, like Trump, one of her country's leading opponents of immigration and refugee resettlement.

Sean Spicer's blithe misappropriation of the Holocaust is of a piece with his administration's blithe betrayal of the children of Syria.

Spicer doesn't care about getting the facts of the Holocaust right, or getting Assad's name right. Nothing matters. Nothing has weight.

The crimes of the past, the crimes of the present, the crimes of the future, all are weightless, meaningless.
posted by chaoticgood at 1:14 PM on April 11, 2017 [123 favorites]

The crimes of the past, the crimes of the present, the crimes of the future, all are weightless, meaningless.

Indeed. Criminals rarely reflect on their crimes; they are too busy commiting them.
posted by valkane at 1:19 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

How can you even carry out foreign policy if you can't tell your own staff what your policy is?

As you all know, the key to victory is the element of surprise. Surprise!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Alex Nichols (Twitter's @Lowenaffchen) in The Outline: Everybody Loves War Trump.

The real issue with the fawning over War Trump is not the disgusting hypocrisy and fetish for overseas violence, but the message it sends to Trump himself, an insecure, half-senile cable news addict who ignores intelligence briefings in favor of TV roundtables. When the CNN talking heads who spent the last year trashing him suddenly jump to his side, the reward center of his rapidly decaying brain lights up. Trump, for all his anti-elite, anti-mainstream-media posturing, is a man who secretly craves acceptance from the figures he claims to hate, and that acceptance was just handed to him on a silver platter. The lesson, for him, is simple: bomb Syria, receive unqualified praise.

Take a deep breath. Stop reading pro-intervention press releases for a moment, stop looking at pictures of crying children — I know, pathos is addictive — and try to use the past to contextualize the present. Remember what happened the last time the U.S. overthrew a dictator, and the time before that, and the time before that. Now, think about the future. Think about what support for regime change, and regime change amidst unprecedented sectarian chaos, will look like in a year. In five years. In ten years. If nothing else, your future reputation is on the line.

Here's what's happened in the last place where the U.S. overthrew a dictator: Migrants from west Africa being 'sold in Libyan slave markets.'
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [23 favorites]

The crimes of the past, the crimes of the present, the crimes of the future, all are weightless, meaningless.

This is not true for everyone, though.
posted by My Dad at 1:22 PM on April 11, 2017

As an expert practitioner of violence I’m oh so heartened that strategic leadership in the United States now comes from a model, t.v. personality and jewelry shill.
I can only imagine how this breaks Mattis' balls. (Yeah, I know what he said.
But what he wants is what Joe Votel wants, more SOF boots, less politics. I mean what the hell kind of country are we in where a 66 year old Marine Corp general is "too liberal". Feck.)

Less sarcastically, I can finally go to hell and stand with the best warfighters in history and say “yes, I know what you went through.” None of this is new. Oh, I’d never thought I’d live to see such a blatant example. Not like Crimean War blatant. Not that stupid. Not landing north of Sevastopol in autumn with no blankets or tents stupid.

Not since Maj. General Elphinstone …though to be fair even he admitted he was incompetent.

But here we are. Again. When leaders are chosen not for strategic prowess or intelligence, but because they conform to a specific social criteria with an inverse relationship between rank and efficiency.

You’d think, after WWII where Hitler promoted people this way got his ass handed to him by brutal pragmatists, we’d have learned. (Although apparently some people are stupid enough to think – and say out loud, and on t.v.(!) that he didn’t use chemical weapons on people...oh but not the same way).

One of the reasons the Nazis killed (or forced to suicide or they would kill his family) Rommel is because he didn’t hate Jews, or at least not enough to waste strategic resources killing them. Never mind he was one of their best generals.

It’s the system that allows upper class twits to make military decisions for social confabulations (oh, gee, gas, we must expend ordinance) instead of in the service of solid strategic goals that has caused more needless pain and suffering than the efficiency of any warfighter no matter their allegiance. No matter how good at destruction you are, it's at least mediated by physical reality. You can only have so much noise in your signal before you're incapable of practical action.
Internal delusion suffers from no such limitations. Especially since someone like Trump, much less Ivanka, would never be anywhere near an actual battlefield.

The Evil vs. Incompetence dichotomy is true for only very small sets of evil or incompetence.
For the vast majority of cases, evil IS incompetence.

"In a situation where the consequences of wrong decisions are so awesome, where a single bit of irrationality can set a whole train of traumatic events in motion, I do not think that we can be satisfied with the assurance that 'most people behave rationally most of the time" - Osgood
posted by Smedleyman at 1:25 PM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

Who is an ally? Who is an enemy? Is NATO an ally? Precious little reason to think so has been given. Russia has always been a strong ally of Trump, so by extension Assad has got to be thinking Trump is on his side, with a nod and a wink from Tillerson being a go ahead with murdering people. Then it's up in the air because a half hearted airstrike with a warning is still an airstrike so maybe not so much of an ally? And now he's worse than Hitler? What does that even mean? Is Hitler bad in this or just neutral? I bet that dick Putin isn't doing much to clear things up.

Very confusing times.
posted by Artw at 1:30 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

History will look at this day and say "Are you fucking telling me that Markey and Schumer saying that they'll bring back the filibuster wasn't the dumbest thing that was said that day?"
posted by Talez at 1:32 PM on April 11, 2017 [20 favorites]

I decide to take a Spicer Break this week and of course by day 2 he's arguing that even Hitler wasn't evil enough to gas people
posted by theodolite at 1:32 PM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

> Very confusing times.

Don't worry, Donald J. Trump is on the case.

"U.S.A."
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:40 PM on April 11, 2017

I decide to take a Spicer Break this week and of course by day 2 he's arguing that even Hitler wasn't evil enough to gas people

Me too. I've been taking a general news breaks, mostly catching things here and there so I'm not completely lost. It seems like every time I decide to dip in again there is something nutz.
It's causing me some angst because I'm finding that it's making what's going on even more ludicrous and my first reaction is laughter. It's like I'm moving back and forth between real life reality and some bizzaro reality.
The other day I turned the radio on in the car after several days of being so busy and not knowing what was going on. Was listening to a CBC show and within 5 mins "Breaking news... US bombs Syria' and I just lost it and started laughing.

Not sure this is healthy.
posted by Jalliah at 1:40 PM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

I picture Trump and his cronies listening to Spicer, hearing the reaction, and wondering what the fuss is all about.
posted by klarck at 1:42 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's like watching a washing machine run with a brick in it.

for those who may have missed the briefing.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:42 PM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Sean, I need you to get people to stop talking about the Russia thing."
"On it, Mr. President."
posted by uosuaq at 1:42 PM on April 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

Today we are all Ashley Parker's increasingly befuddled reaction
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:45 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

I can't even enjoy Spicer's likely downfall. Trump's tenure is going to be a parade of failed incompetents. He'll easily replace them, and none of it matters if he's still president.
posted by diogenes at 1:45 PM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

I suppose if Sean Spicer gets fired he could always go work for the Labour Party in Britain.
posted by My Dad at 1:46 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Good news everyone!

Apparently Jeff Sessions's speechwriter was too racist for even Jeff Sessions, who dropped the "against this filth" when presenting his prepared remarks.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [31 favorites]

I'm feeling depressed. I really need a good jolt of fresh Trump/Russia news.
posted by diogenes at 1:56 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Unrelated, kinda, but this brought a smile to my bitter old heart: Constituents Shout 'You Lie' At Rep. Joe Wilson In Raucous Town Hall
posted by Existential Dread at 1:58 PM on April 11, 2017 [46 favorites]

Today we are all Ashley Parker's increasingly befuddled reaction

I know this is completely useless "online activism," but I would like to make an avatar from part of the Parker gif. Is there a handy online tool for extracting a subinterval from an animated gif?
posted by Coventry at 2:21 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Traditionally, the youngest press secretary is asked to issue the Four Clarifications at the Seder.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [33 favorites]

Why is this clarification of Hitler comments different from all others?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Apparently Spicer clarified that Hitler didn't use weapons 'on his own people' because Jews /= Germans I guess?

Overall, of the 522,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933, approximately 304,000 emigrated during the first six years of Nazi rule and about 214,000 were left by the eve of World War II. Of these, 160-180,000 were killed as a part of the Holocaust. On May 19, 1943, only about 20,000 Jews remained and Germany was declared judenrein (clean of Jews; also judenfrei: free of Jews).

Germany: Jewish Population in 1933

According to the census of June 16, 1933, the Jewish population of Germany, including the Saar region (which at that time was still under the administration of the League of Nations), was approximately 505,000 people out of a total population of 67 million, or somewhat less than 0.75 percent. That number represented a reduction from the estimated 523,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933; the decrease was due in part to emigration following the Nazi takeover in January.

posted by kirkaracha at 2:30 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

(in reference to the Four Clarifications. I don't understand that one either.)

Traditionally, the youngest child present is the one who asks the four questions at the seder.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:32 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Anne Frank Center has called for Spicer to be fired, but should we be listening to a well-known Holocaust Center?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:33 PM on April 11, 2017 [34 favorites]

And just to beat this point into the ground, the four questions traditionally asked (and answered) by the youngest child at the seder are:

1. Why is matza eaten at the seder?
2. Why are we instructed to eat maror (a 'bitter herb') at the seder?
3. Why are the vegetables eaten at seder dipped twice?
4. Why are we commanded to recline while we eat the seder meal?

Cite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Nishtana
posted by mosk at 2:43 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is there a Downfall parody yet? Of course there is. (you have to turn on English subtitles manually for some reason though)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:44 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Nazi Germany annexed Austria in 1938. "Of the more than 65,000 Viennese Jews who were deported to concentration camps, little more than 2,000 survived." So they would've been "his own people" too.
Especially since Hitler was Austrian.

Germany also annexed part of Poland after invading it in 1939, and established several concentration and extermination camps there.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:45 PM on April 11, 2017

As he heads to Moscow, why he hell is Tillerson asking Why U.S. Taxpayers Should Care About Ukraine? I promise that Russia is listening.
posted by zachlipton at 2:55 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Offering a trade for Syria, most likely. Doubt Russia would be impressed as they were expecting to get it anyway.
posted by Artw at 2:57 PM on April 11, 2017

Why should Australian airplane passengers care about Ukraine?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:59 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Really Tillerson only has the energy for the one big burst of treachery before he hibernates for the rest of the year so we should all try and enjoy it.
posted by Artw at 3:15 PM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

Man, Team Trump seems to have a limitless tolerance for self-humiliation:

Sean Spicer: I mistakenly used an inappropriate and insensitive reference to the Holocaust, there is no comparison
posted by My Dad at 3:18 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

“Why should U.S. taxpayers be interested in Ukraine?” Tillerson asked foreign ministers discussing Russia’s intervention there at a Group of Seven gathering Tuesday in Lucca, Italy.

What in the JFC? No country is going to trust us after this administration. We're just straight up fucking up what little credence we have left with the rest of the world as a global power. Close to half the voters in the country are straight up willing to sell the rest of the world out for personal greed and white supremacism.
posted by Talez at 3:20 PM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

I also think its kind of... ironic? something? for the US to try and draw a moral superiority over not using chemical weapons ("We didn't use chemical weapons in World War 2") when we used NUCLEAR WEAPONS in that same war (which we "dropped from airplanes on population centers").
posted by thefoxgod at 3:20 PM on April 11, 2017 [50 favorites]

Israeli Intel Minister Calls for Sean Spicer to ‘Apologize or Resign’ Over Hitler Gaffe

But when Israel Intel Minister Israel Katz publicly opines, the story takes a significant turn. Originally published in Hebrew, loosely translated Katz’s comments read:

Spicer’s statement that Hitler did not use chemical weapons against his people is grave and outrageous. There is a moral obligation that precedes policy. We must demand that he apologize or resign.

On preview, hmm....
posted by Room 641-A at 3:21 PM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

Like let's say Trump gets throw out of office on his first term and progressive president comes up to bat. PP goes on the now standard apology tour and every ally says "you dumb fucks did Trump once, we can't trust that you won't do it again".
posted by Talez at 3:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Well, you have to remember that on top of everything else Trump REALLY wants to drop a nuke (because he is an idiot child who will destroy us all) so they can't really badmouth those.
posted by Artw at 3:23 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Why should U.S. taxpayers be interested in Ukraine?

"According to U.S. census estimates, in 2006 there were 961,113 Americans of Ukrainian descent...The Ukrainian population of the United States is thus the second largest outside the former Soviet Union; only Canada has a larger Ukrainian community." So I'm guessing some of those Americans might have a vested interest.

Since it's Hitler Comparison Day (Hitler Vergleichstag), this particular U.S. taxpayer does not want countries invading and occupying other countries like the Nazis did on numerous occasions.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:34 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

We should care about Ukraine because when countries go around invading each other, it tends to lead to World Wars, especially when it's a country as big as Russia in a neighborhood as crowded as Europe. But why would we expect the US Secretary of State to understand that?
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:35 PM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

We should care about Ukraine because when countries go around invading each other, it tends to lead to World Wars, especially when it's a country as big as Russia in a neighborhood as crowded as Europe. But why would we expect the US Secretary of State to understand that?

To be fair, Tillerson is only there to make a fuckton of money once SCROTUS can finagle the ending of Russian sanctions. The rest of the time he's basically just there to fill a seat and let Kushner do the difficult stuff.
posted by Talez at 3:36 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

I wonder if there are any members of the Trump administration who haven't said the words "Hitler" and "Some good ideas" in the same sentence
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:36 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Can we call Godwin on this presidency* yet?
posted by Dashy at 3:37 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's that global bans and norms can sometimes restrain the actions even of the most evil and genocidal people.

I understand the point Marshall is making but I don't think the example works. Hitler didn't refrain from using battlefield chemical weapons because he was restrained by norms, he refrained because they aren't particularly effective at what he was trying to accomplish.
posted by Justinian at 3:38 PM on April 11, 2017

I wonder if there are any members of the Trump administration who haven't said the words "Hitler" and "Some good ideas" in the same sentence

Spicer: "Holy my beer...."
posted by Talez at 3:41 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

I wonder if there are any members of the Trump administration who haven't said the words "Hitler" and "Some good ideas" in the same sentence

Not near a hot mike that we know of to date. Probably would't be career ending, my money is on Miller.
posted by Artw at 3:49 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

But it's a good example of how the NCGA continues to endear itself to the worst elements of society.

.
posted by yoga at 3:50 PM on April 11, 2017

Can we call Godwin on this presidency* yet?

That doesn't even make sense. Godwin's Law is about the probability of calling someone Hitler approaching 1 as an Internet argument lengthens. It is not an absolute ban on discussing Nazism.
posted by thelonius at 3:50 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Where they lead, the rest of the nation will follow in time. Right down the toilet.
posted by Artw at 3:51 PM on April 11, 2017

Stephen Miller has 100% at some point declared his respect for Hitler's public speaking skills.
posted by sporkwort at 3:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Where they lead, the rest of the nation will follow in time. Right down the toilet.

We may go down the toilet, but we're gonna be dragged kicking and screaming. Most of us do not willingly follow this raging dipshit administration
posted by Existential Dread at 3:54 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

“Pepsi: That was the biggest PR blunder of the week, year maybe.

United: Hold my beer.

Sean Spicer: LEEEEEEEEEERROOOOOOOY JEEEENNNNNNKINS!”

— Lance Bradley (@Lance_Bradley) April 11, 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 3:59 PM on April 11, 2017 [60 favorites]

We may go down the toilet, but we're gonna be dragged kicking and screaming. Most of us do not willingly follow this raging dipshit administration.

Do not go gentle into that toilet bowl.
Mefites should bob and float before the flush
Rage! Rage! 'gainst the circling of the hole.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:04 PM on April 11, 2017 [20 favorites]

Here's a story from the Washington Post about Corey Stewart, Trump's Virginia campaign chair, dressing up for a confederate cosplay event as part of his gubernatorial campaign. It ends with a way-too-subtle dig:

“That’s my kilt jacket,” Stewart explained in an interview Tuesday. “It’s called the Prince Charlie. It’s the best I could do on short notice. They told me, ‘Wear a tuxedo.’ So that’s my tuxedo top.”

In a nod to his Scottish ancestry, Stewart normally sports the jacket with a kilt at black-tie events. This time, he paired it with pants. And when he does wear the kilt, Stewart is not a stickler for tradition.

“I don’t wear it properly. I guess tradition is, you’re not supposed to wear anything under it,” he said. “But I definitely do. Don’t worry about that.”

Got it, "tradition" and "heritage" are sacrosanct for this guy when it comes to insurrection and slavery, but when it comes to wearing drawers under a kilt, whatevs.
posted by peeedro at 4:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

@PFTompkins: Everyone in the Trump administration could switch jobs with each other and nothing would change.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:18 PM on April 11, 2017 [55 favorites]

That doesn't even make sense. Godwin's Law is about the probability of calling someone Hitler approaching 1 as an Internet argument lengthens. It is not an absolute ban on discussing Nazism.

Its intent as stated by Mike himself is to reduce inappropriate comparisons to Hitler. If you have a thought-out, reasoned argument that requires bringing Hitler into the picture, specifically including comparisons to Trump, you should not feel constrained by Godwin's Law: Sure, call Trump a Nazi. Just make sure you know what you’re talking about. I don't think that includes any of the evil gibberish Spicer's been saying today though.
posted by scalefree at 4:21 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

WaPo: FBI obtained FISA warrant to monitor former Trump adviser Carter Page
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

WaPo: FBI obtained FISA warrant to monitor former Trump adviser Carter Page.

The FBI and the Justice Department obtained the warrant targeting Carter Page’s communications after convincing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge that there was probable cause to believe Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power, in this case Russia, according to the officials.

posted by Superplin at 4:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [28 favorites]

I'm feeling depressed. I really need a good jolt of fresh Trump/Russia news.

wish granted!
posted by murphy slaw at 4:23 PM on April 11, 2017 [26 favorites]

To add to the Carter Page story, the FISA warrant was obtained by the FBI some time last summer, during the election, but there's no specific dates of start or end.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:24 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

MAKE IT STOP
posted by Behemoth at 4:29 PM on April 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

Official Involved in Bush-Era Purge of Gay Employees Now in Trump Administration

It was one of the uglier scandals of the Bush administration: Top officials at an agency dedicated to protecting whistleblowers launched a campaign against their own employees based on suspected sexual orientation, according to an inspector general report.

Staffers were abruptly reassigned from Washington, D.C., to a new office 500 miles away in Detroit in what the head of the office reportedly described as an effort to “ship [them] out.” Staffers who refused were fired.

Crude anti-gay emails were found in the agency chief’s account.

Now one of the major players in the scandal has a new assignment: He works in the Trump administration.

In December, James Renne was appointed to the Trump “landing team” at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, as part of the transition effort between the election and the inauguration. He was then hired Jan. 30 in a senior role at the Department of Agriculture, though his exact job duties are not clear.

-- In the Bush administration, Renne was hired in 2004 as deputy special counsel of the Office of Special Counsel, the small federal agency that is supposed to protect employees across the government from retaliation for whistleblowing. The tenures of Renne and his boss, Special Counsel Scott Bloch, were almost immediately mired in controversy after career employees said they were improperly fired. Language stating that job discrimination protections extend to sexual orientation also disappeared from the agency website.

-- During the investigation into his tenure, Bloch’s home and office were raided by the FBI and he ultimately pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge arising from his hiring the company Geeks on Call to do a “seven-level wipe” on his government computers. Years later, Bloch later unsuccessfully sued the government over his firing.

I may actually be able to get more info on this via a friend. I'll try.
posted by futz at 4:31 PM on April 11, 2017 [21 favorites]

hey if flammable and inflammable are synonyms, confusing "destabilize" and "stabilize" is an understandable mistake! english is weird!
posted by murphy slaw at 4:32 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

At this rate, Spicey is going to be on The Weather Channel trying to clarify his clarification of his clarification of his clarification because he'll already have tried to fix his mess on every other network.
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

To add to the Carter Page story, the FISA warrant was obtained by the FBI some time last summer, during the election, but there's no specific dates of start or end.

"Since the 90-day warrant was first issued, it has been renewed more than once by the FISA court, the officials said."

Assuming it was issued immediately, say July, it was in operation for at least 9 months.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:38 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

WaPo: FBI obtained FISA warrant to monitor former Trump adviser Carter Page

He compared surveillance of him to the eavesdropping that the FBI and Justice Department conducted against civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.

Fuck. That. Guy.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:42 PM on April 11, 2017 [35 favorites]

What I really meant to say is that I really just signed up to drive the getaway car.
posted by possibly sean spicer at 4:47 PM on April 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

Anyone with half a brain cell knew that Carter Page was one of the targets. This isn't a dumb and dumber situation. This is the Dumbest.
posted by futz at 4:49 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

He compared surveillance of him to the eavesdropping that the FBI and Justice Department conducted against civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.

If instead of a civil rights leader MLK was a really blatant Russian spy, and if instead of bringing civil rights to Americans or anything good whatsoever he wanted to fill his pockets while throwing an election to a pro-Russian candidate, sure. Apt comparison.
posted by Artw at 4:55 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Administration stops obnoxious "declined detainer" reports. Another failure!
posted by vrakatar at 4:55 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Uhhh. Sheldon Adelson's spokesman says that Spicer called Adelson to apologize. Those of us who didn't give the campaign millions are still waiting for our calls.
posted by zachlipton at 4:56 PM on April 11, 2017 [27 favorites]

Insensitive? he apologized for being "insensitive" and "inappropriate?" He apologized for his on-camera Holocaust denial because Holocaust denial is

in
sensitive

this is worse than no apology at all. if you ask me. and why the fuck doesn't Sean Spicer ask me these things? I know everything he doesn't know, which is a lot like knowing everything.

this is his or somebody's attempt to thread the needle, as I guess the stupid saying is, by doing a wink-wink "sorry I hurt your delicate feelings" in place of apologizing for denying the mass murder of German Jews. which is a lie. the worst thing about lies is not that they are told without sensitivity.

I am IF POSSIBLE a lot more offended by this than by the original statements. OK.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:58 PM on April 11, 2017 [24 favorites]

Uhhh. Sheldon Adelson's spokesman says that Spicer called Adelson to apologize. Those of us who didn't give the campaign millions are still waiting for our calls.

And here Adelson told Spicer he was the emperor of Jewish people.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm not sure repeatedly defending Adolf Hitler is a good way to make people forget you work for Nazis.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

They did assert justifications for invasions of Austria and the Sudetenland -- flimsy pretexts but pretexts nonetheless.

Even invading Poland was in "self-defense."
"Operation Himmler"? You're not even trying.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:09 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

This is my shocked face.

CNN Exclusive: Classified docs contradict Nunes surveillance claims, GOP and Dem sources say

After a review of the same intelligence reports brought to light by House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, both Republican and Democratic lawmakers and aides have so far found no evidence that Obama administration officials did anything unusual or illegal, multiple sources in both parties tell CNN.

Their private assessment contradicts President Donald Trump's allegations that former Obama national security adviser Susan Rice broke the law by requesting the "unmasking" of US individuals' identities. Trump had claimed the matter was a "massive story." However, over the last week, several members and staff of the House and Senate intelligence committees have reviewed intelligence reports related to those requests at NSA headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland.

One congressional intelligence source described the requests made by Rice as "normal and appropriate" for officials who serve in that role to the president. And another source said there's "absolutely" no smoking gun in the reports, urging the White House to declassify them to make clear there was nothing alarming in the documents.

posted by chris24 at 5:10 PM on April 11, 2017 [48 favorites]

From todays Fresh Air :

GROSS: So you've been kind of living in the mind of Jim Jones for years as you researched this. And so when you look around you now living in the present, do you see any echoes of Jim Jones?

GUINN: The things I've learned writing this book scare the hell out of me in terms of today's America. And as social media continues to expand, more and more people are getting unfiltered information that they can believe or not to believe. And we're entering a time in in our history, I think, where a lot of people think the truth doesn't matter because the truth is always going to be just what's convenient for them to believe.

The facts don't matter anymore. Leadership is less based on some sort of comprehensive plan to bring everyone together but instead people want to gain control and gain power in office by splitting up the country and having just enough margin on their side to get sufficient votes to win. And once people are in power, instead of using it positively, it's used instead to try to emphasize their ties with their followers and to show disdain, and even in some cases outright try to destroy, anybody who disagrees with them.

Jim Jones epitomizes the worst that can happen when we let one person dictate what we hear, what we believe that, anybody opposed to him must be opposed to us. This is what we're becoming. We can only change that if we learn from the past and try to apply it to today. So yes, the things I've learned writing this book scare the hell out of me.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 5:11 PM on April 11, 2017 [47 favorites]

How many rediculously major news stories have broken in the last six hours or so? How can we possibly endure this pace without exploding?
posted by zachlipton at 5:15 PM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

How can we possibly endure this pace without exploding?

By exploding, is my bet.
posted by dis_integration at 5:16 PM on April 11, 2017 [16 favorites]

Someone trained an AI on presidenting and the results will creep you out.
posted by srboisvert at 5:18 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Someone trained an AI on presidenting and the results will creep you out.

That explains it! The Tay Corollary! Any AI learning from Twitter will eventually be racist as fuck!
posted by Talez at 5:27 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Results from the KS-4 special election, held today, are starting to come in!

Not a whole lot of precincts have reported yet, but it's looking good for Thompson so far.
posted by un petit cadeau at 5:33 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's exceedingly rare for the improvisational Hitler or Nazi comparison to turn out well. - Mike Godwin

Yes that Godwin.
posted by zabuni at 5:33 PM on April 11, 2017 [28 favorites]

i'm not sure the administration can take much more bad news today without doing something … Presidential
posted by murphy slaw at 5:35 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Stephen Miller has 100% at some point declared his respect for Hitler's public speaking skills.

Go straight to the top:

Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler's speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.

[...]

"Did your cousin John give you the Hitler speeches?" I asked Trump.

Trump hesitated. "Who told you that?"

"I don't remember," I said.

"Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he's a Jew." ("I did give him a book about Hitler," Marty Davis said. "But it was My New Order, Hitler's speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I'm not Jewish.")

Later, Trump returned to this subject. "If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them."

posted by jaduncan at 5:40 PM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

Isn't 'Mein Kampf' one of the only books Trump says he keeps in his bedroom?
posted by My Dad at 5:43 PM on April 11, 2017

Sean Spicer Is the Perfectly Awful Spokesman That Donald Trump Deserves
Spicer survives because he’s willing to toe any line Trump asks him to, and to improvisationally torch his own credibility in defense of the administration’s outrages.

That logic notwithstanding, this administration’s critics should be rooting for Spicer to stay. The White House press secretary plays the dual role of representing the U.S. and being an advocate for the press when reporters have grievances with this and other governments. Spicer may be the worst such press secretary in the history of the job, but he reflects the administration’s contempt for truth, decency, and the free press in both roles exquisitely, which is as it should be.

We're going to miss Spicy if he goes, never change Sean, never change.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:43 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

I've been on a plane most of today, so I just want to ask to be absolutely sure: we didn't all get together while I had my phone off before takeoff to choose Sheldon Adelson as official representive of the Jews, right? It's hard to overstate how incredibly offensive Spicer's call is. It also paints quite the picture of the White House being controlled by donors and staff worried about how the folks with the money are reacting to every move.
posted by zachlipton at 5:44 PM on April 11, 2017 [35 favorites]

at least he didn't call adam sandler?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:47 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's like that old Vulcan saying, "Only Spicer can speak for Trump."
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 5:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

I hope people don't become disappointed when the Rs hold KS-04. It's basically inconceivable that they would lose this seat. It's about how much the margin from Trump's victory shrinks.
posted by Justinian at 5:54 PM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm assuming that the Rs are going to win the Kansas seat. I'll be happy if it's anything like close.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:55 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Well let's hope, but I don't see it as particularly likely to be close. This isn't a district where there are a lot of swing voters or even untapped "unlikely voters" who lean Dem, it's deep deep red. I just fear that all the attention I'm seeing on the internets is a recipe for disillusionment when the R wins by 15 or 20 points or something.
posted by Justinian at 6:05 PM on April 11, 2017

Wow, that Kansas election. It looks like those 3 million invisible illegal alien voters are at it again. (actually, it was 33,000 votes and the Dem up by 14% in a district Trump won by 30)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:11 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's about how much the margin from Trump's victory shrinks.

what does this even mean
posted by indubitable at 6:13 PM on April 11, 2017

208,000 total votes in 2014, Republican by 34%.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:14 PM on April 11, 2017

> I hope people don't become disappointed when the Rs hold KS-04. It's basically inconceivable that they would lose this seat. It's about how much the margin from Trump's victory shrinks

> I'm assuming that the Rs are going to win the Kansas seat. I'll be happy if it's anything like close.

*raises hand*

I'll be goddamn disappointed. Close enough isn't good enough and I am really tired of that being OK. Kansas and Montana... these weren't/aren't pie in the sky dreams. These are/were winnable. Totally fucking winnable. I'll shut up now because this makes me really really really angry.
posted by futz at 6:18 PM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's about how much the margin from Trump's victory shrinks.

what does this even mean

If the vote shifts by 20%, every Republican in a seat with less than a 20% margin starts to think about how much they want to go down with Donald.

That may have impacts on their voting decisions. It's important in the context of an administration that still nominally wants to deport millions of people and do "Tax Cuts (Reform)".
posted by jaduncan at 6:18 PM on April 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

I'm hearing that O'Reilly is out? Anyone confirm with something sourced and factual?
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on April 11, 2017

It's getting very interesting in KS-04.

@ryanstruyk
In Mulvane, one of those crucial small towns near Wichita for Estes. Trump won 65-25% in November. Estes is BEHIND 64-36% in early returns.


@Redistrict
UPSET brewing in #KS04?? Thompson (D) looking very viable in early Sedgwick/Harvey counties results. Hold onto your hats...
posted by chris24 at 6:21 PM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

The healthcare fight also means that not running up the numbers might literally kill tens of thousands of people. The Trump administration really needs to be denied all political capital.
posted by jaduncan at 6:21 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Bill O’Reilly Is Going on Vacation. Will His Show Return?

Embattled Fox News host Bill O’Reilly announced tonight that he is taking a vacation. O’Reilly’s decision to go off the air in the midst of a sexual harassment scandal and advertiser boycott arguably has the appearance of a suspension, but O’Reilly worked to dispel that notion. He announced that he’d scheduled his trip “last fall” — well before the New York Times reported he paid $13 million to settle harassment claims. A Fox News source told me O’Reilly plans to return to his show on April 24.

But according to four network sources, there’s talk inside Fox News that tonight’s show could be his last. Lawyers for the law firm Paul, Weiss, hired last summer by 21st Century Fox to investigate Roger Ailes, are currently doing a “deep dive” investigation into O’Reilly’s behavior. They’re focused now on sexual harassment claims by O’Reilly guest Wendy Walsh after she reported her claims via the company’s anonymous hotline.

Fox News co-president Bill Shine has been working hard to keep O’Reilly, sources said. But O’Reilly’s future is in the hands of the Murdochs. “It’s up to the family,” the senior Fox News staffer said. The Murdochs are presently divided over how to handle it. Two highly-placed Fox News sources say 21st Century Fox CEO James Murdoch would like O’Reilly to be permanently taken off the air, while his father Rupert and older brother Lachlan are more inclined to keep him. (A spokesperson for the Murdochs declined to comment.)

I'm disappointed there is no popcorn aboard this plane (I have asked).
posted by zachlipton at 6:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [19 favorites]

I'm hearing that O'Reilly is out? Anyone confirm with something sourced and factual?

He just said he was taking a pre-planned vacation on his show. That no one knew about.
posted by chris24 at 6:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

Thanks zach.
posted by Justinian at 6:22 PM on April 11, 2017

I just fear that all the attention I'm seeing on the internets is a recipe for disillusionment when the R wins by 15 or 20 points or something.

I'm not a stats person, but the Democrat is ahead 54% to 44% with 20% of the vote in. I understand that this isn't a good district for Democrats, but I think they're running out of room for a Republican landslide.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:23 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Let's hope. If Thompson wins that's a political earthquake. If he loses by single digits that's a pretty serious tremor.
posted by Justinian at 6:23 PM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

Let's also not forget that Pence has been involved. Ryan has been involved. Trump has robocalled. Trump has tweeted. It's not like every random R can count on this, so what happens here is actually a really positive scenario for the incumbent compared to most elections.

I'll be delighted if an example is made.
posted by jaduncan at 6:34 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Maybe BIll can get a gig at the blaze.
posted by valkane at 6:40 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump's Tie Is Finally Free of Scotch Tape Mr. "America First" ditched his own shitty ties and went with Italo Ferretti.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:43 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

It may be free of scotch tape, but it's still so long he looks like he's trying to give himself hints as to where his dick might be.
posted by mrgoat at 6:46 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

I thought the report would be that he switched to American tape.
posted by mikepop at 6:49 PM on April 11, 2017 [16 favorites]

the only way he got the tie long enough to go through the loop and still dangle precariously in front of his fly is by wearing one for someone a foot taller with a neck as big around as his head
posted by murphy slaw at 6:49 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump's Tie Is Finally Free of Scotch Tape Mr. "America First" ditched his own shitty ties and went with Italo Ferretti.

It still has his name written on it like he's afraid he'll lose it at a sleepover.
posted by dis_integration at 6:49 PM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

I know this is just a petty and stupid detail but is he just dense about his tie being too long or is their some sort of weird man thing about wearing ties this long on purpose? Was it the actual fashion trend at some point in the past? Some sort of weird signal thing?
posted by Jalliah at 6:55 PM on April 11, 2017

I know as much about KS-4 as anybody else here that doesn't happen to be from Topeka, but it looks like Sedgwick County (Topeka) only has 66/257, or 25%, of precincts reporting, whereas statewide (so, district-wide I assume, since this is a special election) 334/620 are reporting (50%).

Thompson (D) is leading in Sedgwick 57-41, and the candidates are currently neck-and-neck, so if those ratios hold while more Topeka precincts report in...

Regardless, it's a very solid showing in a deep red district; as Justinian notes above, it should have purplish-district Republicans quaking.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:55 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sedgwick is Wichita; Topeka's not in KS-4.

Sedgwick was pretty solidly Trump territory in the 2016 election, so it being competitive really is good news.
posted by jackbishop at 6:56 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sedgwick County is Wichita. Harvey is Hutchinson. Both leaning blue is good.
posted by rewil at 6:57 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sedgwick is Wichita; Topeka's not in KS-4.

Shit, shows what happens when you make comments based on an earlier-in-the-day five-minute-Wikipedia-ing of a state.

*sits quietly in corner*
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:58 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Local news has it with Estes leading, as rural counties came in. They haven't mentioned Sedgwick in a while.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 6:59 PM on April 11, 2017

The man to follow for KS-4 is @SeanTerende of RCP:

Estes carries Cowley w 56% of the vote. Trump was at 65%. Again, probably enough for the win, but seems like a single digit loss.

Estes looks very likely to win, but cutting into Trump's margin in Kansas by 20ish points is not nothing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:59 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Q. What kind of knot does Donald tie?

A. A hyu-ge-not.

Meh.
posted by sylvanshine at 6:59 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Estes looks very likely to win, but cutting into Trump's margin in Kansas by 20ish points is not nothing.

@ForecasterEnten
Eye-on-ball: Last week, Dems outperformed presidential lean of CA-34 by 19 pts. Tonight in KS-04, looks very similar if not better than that
posted by chris24 at 7:02 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department.

The church says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe.

Critics of the bill argue that a police department that reports to church officials could be used to cover up crimes.

The state has given a few private universities the authority to have a police force, but never a church or non-school entity.

Police experts have said such a police department would be unprecedented in the U.S.

A similar bill is also scheduled to be debated in the House on Tuesday.

3 of Alabama's most powerful Republicans forced from office in 9 months

Appearing sullen during a plea hearing and later proclaiming his love for the state during a farewell address, Bentley joined House Speaker Mike Hubbard and Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore on the sidelines of power after being forced from positions atop a branch of government in Montgomery.

I am sick of these so-called "family values" religious hypocrites. This gave me a laugh though. It is delicious and so fucking dumb. Is there something in the water that Repubs drink?

3) Bentley and Mason’s mushy texts were synced to his ex-wife’s iPad

Unbeknownst to the governor and Mason, the frequent romantic texts they exchanged were all visible to Dianne Bentley. The governor’s state-issued cell phone’s cloud was linked to his state-issued iPad, which he had gifted to his then-wife, allowing her to watch the rumored affair unfold in real time.

“I’m so in love with you,” Bentley wrote to Mason in one text, along with two heart-eye emojis. “We are pitiful.”

“Poor Robert. Poor Rebekah,” he added.

“Yes… Bless our hearts… And other parts,” Mason wrote back.

“Magnetic,” Bentley replied.

The device oversight was only one of Bentley's errors.

In spring 2014, he mistakenly sent a text to his wife reading, “I love you Rebekah,” along with an emoji of a red rose.

Fat cat Republican family values christian shows his true stripes again and it won't matter one iota to voters of a certain ilk. I wish there was a stronger more descriptive word other than hypocrite. A word that really packs a punch.
posted by futz at 7:03 PM on April 11, 2017 [33 favorites]

so if those ratios hold while more Topeka precincts report in...

Even if they don't, and Thompson loses as is likely, the results so far are pretty much a drinking-wine-from-their-skulls level of victory, and something that should scare the shit out of Republicans across the country.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:04 PM on April 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

If Page is a spy, what does this mean for Jefferson Beauregard Sessions who brought him on?

Spy... Master?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

If I hear one more word about Sharia Law so help me.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on April 11, 2017 [78 favorites]

Fat cat Republican family values christian shows his true stripes again and it won't matter one iota to voters of a certain ilk.

What's a little hypocrisy when there are gay folks to torment and fetuses to save!
posted by chaoticgood at 7:09 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

I know this is just a petty and stupid detail but is he just dense about his tie being too long or is their some sort of weird man thing about wearing ties this long on purpose? Was it the actual fashion trend at some point in the past?

What the fuck is with ties to begin with, is what I'd like to know. For me they mainly function as signifiers for "jobs I don't want to have".
posted by uosuaq at 7:10 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

For what it's worth (and it's not much), with most of the remaining precincts being in Sedgwick, I did some calculations, and if the current percentiles hold in each county for the remaining votes, Thompson would win.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:13 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Fat cat Republican family values christian shows his true stripes again and it won't matter one iota to voters of a certain ilk. I wish there was a stronger more descriptive word other than hypocrite. A word that really packs a punch.

Take your pick.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:15 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

That Spicer clip deserves a verbatim transcript

The White House press secretary, ladies and gentlemen. Give him a hand!

Because he badly, badly needs one...

You mean clue. A hand won't save him.
posted by Samizdata at 7:16 PM on April 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

For what it's worth (and it's not much), with most of the remaining precincts being in Sedgwick, I did some calculations, and if the current percentiles hold in each county for the remaining votes, Thompson would win.

Eh, it looks like the R won. But as everyone points out, that KS-4 was even competitive is amazing.
posted by Tsuga at 7:24 PM on April 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Thompson isn't going to win. But this is a district where Republican candidates routinely get 65% of the vote, and no Democratic congressional candidate has broken 40% in the past 15 years. With 83% of precincts in, the Republican is currently sitting at 52.5%. That's devastating. This was never expected to be a competitive district, and Democrats aren't supposed to do well in obscure elections. This is a hopeful sign for Democrats.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:28 PM on April 11, 2017 [24 favorites]

Eh, it looks like the R won. But as everyone points out, that KS-4 was even competitive is amazing.

Trump won KS04 by 28, Pompeo by 32. It's the 74th most conservative district in the country out of 435. If 6 points is the final margin, amazing is right.
posted by chris24 at 7:29 PM on April 11, 2017 [25 favorites]

"What the fuck is with ties to begin with, is what I'd like to know."

There's a bit of history here: http://www.tie-a-tie.net/the-evolution-of-the-necktie, though I can't personally vouch for accuracy. Basically, they were for Croatian mercenaries to tie their jackets closed in the Thirty Years' War, and King Louis liked it.

As for trump, the long tie thing is probably just trump being trump. There's really no way he doesn't know that his poorly tailored suits and absurd ties make him look like a clown, but he does it anyway. Supposedly, he does the white ring around his eyes on purpose too, thinks it makes them pop, instead of look like a sick raccoon stuck in a pile of mashed potatoes.

I suspect it's because he can, and some people still pay deference / suck up to him, like it's a power thing that he can flaunt the norms of fashion.

(Incidentally, I tried to look up whether Jared Kushner wears his ties too long as well, but when I typed in "Jared Kushner Ties", Google automatically inserted "with Russia". Heh.)
posted by mrgoat at 7:30 PM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

Important Kansas note: Estes was state Treasurer as Brownback blew up the budget. There's a lot of state politics here, not just Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 7:35 PM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

Important Kansas note: Estes was state Treasurer as Brownback blew up the budget. There's a lot of state politics here, not just Trump.

Good point, but I'll take cheer that a good chunk of R voters are recognizing the failure of R policies and are so turned off they're open to voting D.
posted by chris24 at 7:41 PM on April 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

What this proves is that anything other than the 50 state strategy for Democrats is absolute malpractice that warrants never working in politics ever again. Run a real candidate, not Evan Bayh or Patrick Murphy. In every goddamn state and district. And don't undermine the most liberal ones every time because they're not the Wall Street/Schumer approved carpetbagger. Don't starve progressive campaigns out of spite. Compete in every district, in every race, no exceptions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 PM on April 11, 2017 [66 favorites]

@tbonier:
There are over 100 Republicans sitting in districts that wouldn't have been heavily GOP enough to overcome the D swing we saw in KS tonight.
posted by chris24 at 7:49 PM on April 11, 2017 [59 favorites]

Worth noting once again, Paul Ryan's district is R+5, and DNC/DCCC Democrats have consistently refused to support a challenger against him, or any Republican in a House leadership position.

That needs to end.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on April 11, 2017 [57 favorites]

@SteveKornacki:
KS-4 results
'17: R+5 (incomplete)
16: R+31
14: R+34
12: R+30
10: R+23
08: R+32
06: R+30
04: R+35
02: R+24
00: R+12
98: R+19
96: R+3
94: R+6
posted by chris24 at 7:55 PM on April 11, 2017 [25 favorites]

Kansas City Star on the Kansas congressional race: "Estes trailed Thompson early in the night, but began to pull ahead around 9 p.m. with a lead of 52 percent to 47 percent after 519 of 620 precincts reported. . . . . Republicans outnumber Democrats in the district nearly 2-to-1 and the fact that Thompson made the race competitive will likely have reverberations both nationally and in Kansas as the state moves into 2018 with the governor’s office up for grabs."

Not a win, but really that was a competitive race in a place where House races are not usually competitive at all . . .
posted by flug at 8:13 PM on April 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

What this proves is that anything other than the 50 state strategy for Democrats is absolute malpractice that warrants never working in politics ever again. Run a real candidate, not Evan Bayh or Patrick Murphy. In every goddamn state and district. And don't undermine the most liberal ones every time because they're not the Wall Street/Schumer approved carpetbagger. Don't starve progressive campaigns out of spite. Compete in every district, in every race, no exceptions.

And by the same token, progressives are going to have to support moderates like Thompson even when they aren't perfect by your standards.

I'm going to be really curious to hear some analysis of turnout. Was this people switching their votes, or was it just really strong Democratic turnout and really weak Republican turnout? My hunch would be the latter, but who knows.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:20 PM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

Josh Marshall asks... why was Manafort, who was previously working for Putin cronies in Ukraine and seems to have been laundering illegal payments from them, who earlier had a contract to burnish Putin's image in the US, so eager to work for Trump? That he sought him out and volunteered to work for him for free?

He also has some good analysis and good questions about the Carter Pafe FISA warrant.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:22 PM on April 11, 2017 [13 favorites]

I don't live in Kansas, and I don't have a sophisticated understanding of special elections or the optics or running a campaign in a Republican-dominated district, but I donated to James Thompson because of mentions here and other activist spaces about his solid progressive campaign. So thanks to those folks here who bring things like this up and provide the context for the significance. I will continue to donate where I can, when I can. A few of my local Indivisible groups also organized phonebanking for Thompson, so it does feel like there's a sense of progressives pulling together for support across the country.
posted by orbit-3 at 8:27 PM on April 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

Holy crap. Brutal.

NY Daily News front page.
posted by Jalliah at 8:29 PM on April 11, 2017 [69 favorites]

Wow.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on April 11, 2017

For those not wanting/able to look at the Twitter link or who use screen readers, this is the NY Daily News front page:
Nazis murdered 2.7 million Jews in death camps, gassing 6,000 a day in Auschwitz alone, but victims were ...
FORGOTTEN BY WHITE HOUSE
Trump aide Spicer's shocking claim: Hitler never used chemical weapons on own people
posted by miguelcervantes at 8:38 PM on April 11, 2017 [15 favorites]

2 top Trump immigration advisers linked to alleged hate groups

Two hard-line opponents of illegal immigration who have held leadership posts at two organizations labeled as hate groups have obtained high-level advisory jobs at federal immigration agencies in the Department of Homeland Security.

Jon Feere, a former legal policy analyst for the Center for Immigration Studies, or CIS, has been hired as an adviser to Thomas D. Homan, the acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to Homeland Security spokesman David Lapan.

At Customs and Border Protection, Julie Kirchner, the former executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, or FAIR, has been hired as an adviser to Customs and Border Protection acting Commissioner Kevin McAleenan, said Lapan.

-- The law center notes Tanton has written that "less intelligent" people should be required to have fewer children, that a "European-American majority" is necessary to maintain American culture and once warned about a destructive "Latin onslaught" of immigration heading to the United States that he feared would undermine Western society.

-- In one article published by CIS, Feere questioned whether children brought to the United States at an early age were sufficiently assimilated or loyal to this nation to be granted any type of legal status.
Feere also was quoted frequently in the publications of VDARE.com, a white nationalist website.

--Both CIS and FAIR reject the hate group designation.
"The Southern Poverty Law Center has so thoroughly delegitimized itself by adding us to that list," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of CIS. "The SPLC puts together what is essentially a blacklist in an attempt to suppress opposing views on immigration, a strategy that truly threatens democracy."

-- But the Southern Poverty Law Center said its analysis transcends basic differences in policies and it stands by its designation.

"If groups like FAIR and CIS want to deny their extensive and longstanding racist history, we have documented many instances of hate-filled, white nationalist, anti-Semitic behavior that goes back decades and traces back to their founding," said Heidi Beirich, director of Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, which oversees the center's yearly count of anti-immigrant hate groups.

In a 2013 interview with The Washington Post, Krikorian worried about growing "multiculturalism" and contended that a "lot of immigration pushers don't like America the way it is" and want to change it. Stein, in a 1997 interview with the Wall Street Journal, defended his belief that certain immigrant groups are engaged in "competitive breeding" to diminish America's white majority.

"CIS has published articles that labeled immigrants 'third world gold diggers' and that blamed Central American asylum seekers for the 'burgeoning street gang problem' in the US, while Dan Stein has said that many immigrants that come to the US hate America and everything the country stands for," said Beirich. "We take these designations very seriously, and CIS and FAIR are far-right fringe groups that regularly publish racist, xenophobic material and spread misinformation about immigrants and immigration."

Throughout the presidential campaign and since he's taken office, Donald Trump's immigration policy has mirrored details found in CIS reports. In April 2016, for example, CIS published a list of "79 immigration actions that the next president can take." The list included such measures as withholding federal funds from sanctuary cities, eliminating the "Priority Enforcement Program," which prioritized the deportation of the most serious criminals during the Obama administration, and reducing the number of welfare-dependent immigrants living in the United States.

Many of these recommendations have already been enacted, proposed or discussed by the administration, and some were included in Trump's executive order on immigration issued in January.

-- ICE makes some changes under Trump
"The campaign and the administration have used other material of ours so I'm delighted that they are using that immigration actions list," Krikorian said. "But there's a difference between using CIS' material as source of important research and CIS actually having a direct operational link to the administration."

ICE adds groups to stakeholder meetings

-- In February, at the first such get-together under the Trump administration, members of the working group felt blindsided to discover that some anti-immigrant, pro-enforcement groups also were in attendance.

In addition to CIS and FAIR, invitations were extended to the Immigration Reform Law Institute, which is the legal arm of FAIR, NumbersUSA and Judicial Watch. These groups support stricter enforcement of immigration laws, reducing overall immigration levels and the increased detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants.

"We are frustrated and angry that what felt like a productive conversation and an exchange of ideas and information about how to ensure the safe and fair treatment of immigrants in their (ICE) custody has morphed into a meeting with organizations whose mission is to restrict immigration and perpetuate hate against immigrants," said one pro-immigrant advocate who attended the February meeting.

-- ICE will keep meetings going

In a statement ICE said the meetings will continue:
"ICE is committed to transparency with all interested stakeholders -- not just those of one opinion on immigration enforcement issues and policies. ICE appreciates constructive and diverse viewpoints from a wide spectrum of organizations interested in immigration enforcement. The agency continues to expand engagement with stakeholders and community members. Our goal is to make sure all members of the public fully understand what we do and what we don't do."

Peter Robbio a spokesman for NumbersUSA, a group that also scored its first invitation to the stakeholder meeting, described this as the best relationship the organization has had with any administration in 21 years.

Said FAIR's Stein: "President Trump understands the immigration issue from the larger view of the national interest and has tapped a strong bench of people who bring expertise on the issue -- some who are in the administration, some who are not."

If pro-immigrant groups are unhappy about that, said Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, they better get used to the new reality.


OOOHHH, transparency is the issue. Silly Democrats. Looks like ICE is (and has been) our SS. I know that those of us who have been paying attention already knew that. We need to fight back where we can. Sometimes all we have is suspicion that someone is racist. We KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE RACIST; they in their own words have said so. What can we do about it?
posted by futz at 8:48 PM on April 11, 2017 [53 favorites]

"That a "European-American majority" is necessary to maintain American culture and once warned about a destructive "Latin onslaught" of immigration heading to the United States that he feared would undermine Western society."

I have some COOL NEWS for him about the ancestry of all* those Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking Latinos in Mexico and Central and South America!

I also have some cool news for him about the very word "Latin."

*all = many of, nitpickers
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:05 PM on April 11, 2017 [22 favorites]

why was Manafort, who was previously working for Putin cronies in Ukraine and seems to have been laundering illegal payments from them, who earlier had a contract to burnish Putin's image in the US, so eager to work for Trump? That he sought him out and volunteered to work for him for free?

Yeah, let's just go ahead & say it out loud . . . the obvious answer is that Manafort was an agent of the Russians of some type. Double agent, whatever.

Trumps Razor, Trump's Mirror, whatever--let's go ahead run the whole Shaving Kit on this marvelously obvious idea. 1. Stupidest possible explanation? Oh yeah, it's dumb as fuck. Nothing could be dumber. So totally qualifies there. 2. Is Trump saying it about other people (meaning, per Trump's Mirror, that it's actually true of himself?) Well, yeah, he's practically gone off of his rocker talking about espionage and claiming that Obama was spying on him. So, per Trump's Mirror, that means that Trump was actually spying on . . . Obama? Clinton? Whatever. Anyway, the obvious explanation is that Manafort was bringing in the connection with the Russian intel and among other things bringing the inside Russian intel info to Trump, making him think that he had a special connection to and support of the Russians while also thinking he had an inside track, via Russian intel, into his opponent's campaigns. Reality was that Trump was being subtly and not-so-subtly played by Manafort, who was working for the Russians more than anything, all along. Keep in mind that Manafort, Carter Page, Trump and the whole lot of them don't see themselves as Russian agents or being played by the Russians at all. Rather, they just conveniently happen to agree with the Russians about the way a lot of things should be done. So conveniently receiving very large cash payments from the Russians for A, B, and C while continuing to advocate for political outcomes X, Y, & Z which the Russians just happen to also nicely agree with, is just all a tidy business arrangement of no relevance at all to their political beliefs. Apply Trump's Razor in spades here, because it and they are all as dumb as physically possible, plus unashamedly greedy--that's what makes it all work.
posted by flug at 9:54 PM on April 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

In spring 2014, he mistakenly sent a text to his wife reading, “I love you Rebekah,” along with an emoji of a red rose.

How does this man even

just, what
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:57 PM on April 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

Speaking of Russian influence, have we talked about the Russian influence on the Brexit vote yet?

Because--particularly since the breakup of the Soviet Union--the breakup of any other world powers that might be in a position to challenge Russia seems to be very much in Putin's (and Russia's) self-interest.

That was pretty clearly Putin's interest in the U.S. campaign meddling and it would be unfathomable if he didn't also have the exact same interest in Brexit for the exact same reason.

Newsweek seems to think along the same lines that I do.
posted by flug at 9:59 PM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

Ray Walston, Luck Dragon: How does this man even
Governor Bentley: Hold my beer.
posted by scalefree at 10:02 PM on April 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

What stupid fucking thing has Betsy DeVos done lately? Funny you should ask: Education Secretary DeVos Withdraws Protections For Student Loan Borrowers (Consumerist).

“It is utterly baffling that Secretary DeVos would undo guidance that asks servicers to do the basic things that anyone – literally anyone – would expect a loan servicer to do, like respond to questions and help people access repayment plans they have a legal right to use,” Suzanne Martindale, policy counsel for our colleagues at Consumers Union, said. “Today’s move is very shortsighted and could lead to an even bleaker picture for student borrowers who are already struggling.”

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:03 PM on April 11, 2017 [47 favorites]

SPECIAL ELECTIONS

* KS-04 - Obviously, disappointing to not pull the earth-shattering upset. That said, cutting it to 6.8 points is a huge achievement - about 20 point swing from the presidential result. As it happens, CA-34 last week was about a 20 point swing, too....

* GA-06 latest numbers: overall early vote total of D 46, R 37 with 32363 votes cast.

* MT-AL: Quist raised $1.3M in 1Q17. This seems like a significant amount, given rates for Montana media buys.

Sorry I was late tonight, I took the kids to a ballgame.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:06 PM on April 11, 2017 [29 favorites]

What stupid fucking thing has Betsy DeVos done lately? Funny you should ask: Education Secretary DeVos Withdraws Protections For Student Loan Borrowers (Consumerist).

Thank You Andrew Cuomo! Yeah, us parents are still going to get screwed with fees and books ( daughters, I hear they have textbooks on "teh torrentz" or something... ) but not having to deal with tuition is a biggie.

Now how about getting in line with our neighbors and getting to recreational marijuana.
posted by mikelieman at 10:07 PM on April 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

OTHER 2017 ELECTIONS

New Jersey and Virginia hold their state-level elections in off years, so have major elections this November. I'll be updating on those, too.

VA has a new Q poll out:

- Former US Rep Perriello leads Lt Gov Northam 25-20 (51 undecided) for the Dem nom. Perriello is the somewhat more progressive one, although it's not cut-and-dried (good 538 on this).

- On the GOP side, former RNC head Gillespie leads PW Co Supervisor Steward 28-12 (51 undecided). Gillespie lost in 2014 for Senate to Mark Warner, and is a huge scumball.

- Head to head, Perriello beats Gillespie by 13 points, Northam beats him by 11. Similar margins for each agains Stewart.

- Also, looking ahead to next year, Sen Tim Kaine has low 20s margins over possible opponents.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:25 PM on April 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

The only pro-business angle I can see is...money saved in labor costs

...will take direction from lobbyists.
posted by jaduncan at 12:12 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Regarding that Hitler comparison, the proper framing would have been, of course: "You know who else murdered part of the population using chemical weapons? It's our moral obligation to step in."
Come to think of it, one of the two works with basically any atrocity. It's either "not even Hitler" or "you know who else". For example:

You know who else tried to ban people of a certain religion from his country?

Not even Hitler picked a fight with North Korea.

You know who else was person of the year?

Not even Hitler used corn or pineapple as a topping for his pizza.

You know who else didn't drink alcohol?

Not even Hitler described global warning as a hoax.


And so on... #notevenHitler #youknowwhoelse
posted by sour cream at 1:52 AM on April 12, 2017 [16 favorites]

"Since the 90-day [Carter Page] warrant was first issued, it has been renewed more than once by the FISA court, the officials said."

Assuming it was issued immediately, say July, it was in operation for at least 9 months.

Ye gods, can you imagine the poor FBI grunts who have to listen to month after interminable month of Carter Page audio? Carter Page talking about his dry cleaning, Carter Page chatting with friends about his Hillary Clinton delusions, Carter Page trying to parlay his nothingburger Russia connections into a book deal. . . . If ever a duty merited hazard pay, it's this one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:53 AM on April 12, 2017 [16 favorites]

Unintended consequence of DL style tranfer: Zebra Putin 😂 (hat tip @haveahennessy)
posted by Coventry at 2:19 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

- Also, looking ahead to next year, Sen Tim Kaine has low 20s margins over possible opponents.

Senator Kaine, if these numbers dip, say the word and I will help you campaign.
posted by pxe2000 at 2:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

I hope Carter Page is not the linchpin of any Russia investigation, because I suspect he's mostly a blowhard hanger-on
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:41 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Guardian: Japanese warships to join US fleet near North Korea
posted by XMLicious at 2:53 AM on April 12, 2017

That zebra Putin image looks like a promo shot from next month's"Guardians of the Galaxy 2" premiere.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:11 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

This doesn't seem to be getting much play in the US media but some nutjob (possible ISIS/Islamist from notes found at scene) tried to blow up the Borussia Dortmund team bus last night on the way to their Champions League game.
posted by PenDevil at 3:49 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

(possible ISIS/Islamist from notes found at scene)

Or not.

However, investigators cited by Süddeutsche Zeitung said they were also looking into the possibility that the document was a false trail deliberately laid by another perpetrator.

Or how about...

German news agency DPA on Wednesday morning reported the existence of a second statement circulating online, in which an anti-fascist group claim they carried out the attack in retaliation for Borussia Dortmund not doing enough to distance themselves from rightwing populism.

All the above from that same Grauniad report.
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:16 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm at a multi-day leadership meeting for my part of a federal research agency. The "state of the organization" talks we heard yesterday were sobering. I realize that giving in to despair helps nobody, and many of our problems are due to 20 years of neglect by Congress rather than the evil of the current administration, but the feeling in the room is not good. It's like being at the end of something that used to be wonderful, like maybe being the crew that will one day close down Disney World or something. Most of us are going to keep fighting the good fight, but we've already eaten our seed corn. Flat budgets which are really cute, years of hiring freezes, largely pointless consultations and reorganizations, deteriorating facilities, endlessly growing bureaucracy... They've all taken their toll. I wish I had better news from a scientific agency than that.
posted by wintermind at 4:21 AM on April 12, 2017 [55 favorites]

Time for Republicans to start worrying about 2018

Two Republicans strategists familiar with polling data in two of the special election races say the main problem is not that independents and moderate voters have swung en masse to Democrats.

The problem, they say, is the Democratic base is so energized that even voters who rarely pay attention to politics are suddenly engaged. One GOP operative familiar with the special elections said the GOP realized there might be a problem when polling found that even low-propensity Democratic voters were interested in the race.

Another House Republican strategist said the Democratic base is so motivated, it doesn’t make sense to run attack ads because it will further incite those voters.

posted by chris24 at 4:41 AM on April 12, 2017 [50 favorites]

BBC: US-Russia ties worse under Trump, Putin says

Speaking about relations between Moscow and Washington, he added: "One could say that the level of trust on a working level, especially on the military level, has not improved, but rather has deteriorated."

[...]

The statement came as US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was holding talks with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Ahead of the meeting in Moscow, Mr Lavrov said Russia had "a lot of questions regarding very ambiguous and contradictory ideas (...) coming from Washington".

While this sounds true, I don't know how much of it is motivated by actual changing circumstances rather than by the need to discredit the whole election hacking and campaign collusion story. By even posting the link I feel like the unwitting dog being led around the board in a game of 7-dimensional Putinology.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 5:07 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Upthread someone asserted that DeVos & her ilk needed customers to sell to and that therefore it would not be in her intersest to hurt the middle class. DeVos's money comes from Amway. I suspect that Amway does better when times are tough. Their brand of prosperity MLM bullshit feeds off desperation.
posted by rdr at 5:18 AM on April 12, 2017 [27 favorites]

Time for Republicans to start worrying about 2018

I realize the point is that people are now paying attention on the local levels, thus the worry, and yes the good news for D's. But when the fuck have R's ever NOT been campaigning? It's all. they. do.
posted by yoga at 5:38 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

And by campaigning, I mean NOT governing.
posted by yoga at 5:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

Well, here's some good news for all the delusional dominionists out there: Republicans in North Carolina legislature file HB780 to defy Supreme Court's marriage ruling — says same-sex marriages “not valid."

Early public response is along the lines of "but I thought we liked college basketball?"
I doubt it will go anywhere. But it's a good example of how the NCGA continues to endear itself to the worst elements of society.

As I said in the earlier thread, when North Carolina also updated it trespassing statute in a transparent bid to reinstate the so-called "bathroom bill":

Your move, NCAA.
posted by Gelatin at 5:40 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

- Former US Rep Perriello leads Lt Gov Northam 25-20 (51 undecided) for the Dem nom. Perriello is the somewhat more progressive one, although it's not cut-and-dried (good 538 on this).

And by the same token, progressives are going to have to support moderates like Thompson even when they aren't perfect by your standards.

Look you're never going to get me to disagree with strategic voting. I voted Bernie in the primary and when he lost immediately switched to trying to talk my idiot green party deadender acquaintances into Hilary. I hate Manchin and Joe Donnelly more than most here, but if I lived in Indiana or West Virginia, I'd vote against them in the primary and for them in the general. Broad picture Im not sure they're worth the trouble in the long run for the rest of the party, but I also don't live there.

Which is why I'm pretty much over the cult of Bernie. He endorsed Perriello in the VA gov this week, fine, whatever, I like Perriello well enough I guess, judging from the one time I heard him on a podcast. But he took a lot of troubling votes in his short time in congress and I'm not convinced he's anything but an opportunist. But what I'm most concerned about is the immediate outpouring of hate for Northam after Bernie's endorsement. McCaulllife has been a good governor, and they called him a "corporate Democrat". If corporate/establishment/whatever Democrat means vetoing VA Republican TRAP bills, embracing Obamacare, and going above and beyond to restore felon voting rights, sign me up for 6 more years of McCaulife's "establishment" lieutenant governor Ralph Northam please. What I don't want to see is Bernie coming in, doing a bunch of events for Perriello and poisoning the primary voters against Northam like he does so that his supporters sit out a low turnout election if Northam prevails. The 2016 primary needs to die, and if Bernie engenders his cult of "Bernie or bust" in every race he touches, I'd rather he stay the fuck home.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 AM on April 12, 2017 [65 favorites]

At any rate, I just can't see the reasoning behind this.

Who needs logic when you have blind partisanship? I suspect it's similar to the poll numbers chris24 posted. If Obama did it, they're against it.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:51 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

Upthread someone asserted that DeVos & her ilk needed customers to sell to and that therefore it would not be in her intersest to hurt the middle class.

It's also possible that she is helping out at friend at Navient.

Obama’s team also sought to reduce the possibility that new contracts would be given to companies that mislead or otherwise harm debtors. The current round of contracts will terminate in 2019, and among three finalists for a new contract is Navient Corp. In January, state attorneys general in Illinois and Washington, along with the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, or CFPB, sued Navient over allegations the company abused borrowers by taking shortcuts to boost its own bottom line. Navient has denied the allegations.

The withdrawal of the Obama administration guidelines could make Navient a more likely contender for that contract, government officials said. Navient shares moved higher after the government released DeVos’s decision around 11:30 a.m. New York time. Navient stock ended up almost 2 percent. (Bloomberg)

posted by parallellines at 5:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

We lost Kansas, on the brink of an upset for the ages, and we should have won. This is why we lost, in a nutshell:

"There are thousands of elections every year," Perez said. "Can we invest in all of them? That would require a major increase in funds."

Fire Perez. Now. Shovel the entire worthless lot of Third Way Clintonistas out of any and all leadership positions in the party. Do they understand how close we are to a Constitutional Convention? How many seats at all levels of Government the Democrats have lost in the past half decade? They wasted how much money in Hillary's useless bid for the top slot?

Fire Perez. He needs to be gone. Bring in Dean and Ellison as co-chairs, please, before we lose 2018 outright.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:08 AM on April 12, 2017 [36 favorites]

Seriously, fire Perez, though. I supported and voted for Clinton, I was totally willing to give Perez a chance, and I promise I will support the hell out of Claire McCaskill when she's up for election in 2018, because it's Missouri and we gotta do the best we can. But we've reached a point where grassroots Dems and progressives are showing so much more passion and leadership and bravery than our supposed leaders. This situation can't go on. The energy at the top has got to at least try and match the energy on the ground.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 6:16 AM on April 12, 2017 [28 favorites]

I hope Carter Page is not the linchpin of any Russia investigation, because I suspect he's mostly a blowhard hanger-on

The fact that Page was the "only American to have had his communications directly targeted with a FISA warrant in 2016 as part of the Russia probe" isn't a great sign.
posted by diogenes at 6:31 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Johnny Wallflower “It is utterly baffling that Secretary DeVos would undo guidance that asks servicers to do the basic things that anyone – literally anyone – would expect a loan servicer to do, like respond to questions and help people access repayment plans they have a legal right to use,” Suzanne Martindale

I disagree with Ms. Martindale. It isn't baffling at all and was, in fact, to be expected. This outcome was inevitable given the starting conditions DeVos and her ilk work from.

1) Higher education is, at best, a worthless waste of time, and at worst is nothing but Evil Liberal indoctrination that will turn your beautiful young conservative children into evolution spouting atheists.

2) College educated elite snobs are Evil Liberals and should be punished to the maximum extent because they are Evil Liberals.

3) Therefore, taking steps that will make it harder for people to pay back student loans, or making the economic burden of student loans greater, is a good thing.
posted by sotonohito at 6:40 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Perez is no "Third Way Clintonista." Its fine to disagree with DNC strategy, but let's be real.
posted by Superplin at 6:42 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Do they understand how close we are to a Constitutional Convention?

Look at the big picture. They get to 34 they can convention all they want. They won't get 38 states to ratify anything. Hawaii, California, Oregon, Washington, Mass, New York, Delaware, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Illinois, Maryland, Vermont, New Jersey, New Mexico form the bulwark. Nevada and Colorado are getting more D. They may eventually be able to call a convention to propose everything they want but liberals are at least concentrated in enough states to stop all the crazy shit they suggest from being ratified. It'll also do the job for Democrats of energizing the base.

I suspect Perez knows that too.

KS-04 is R+15. It was a non-starter and everyone knew it. There were physically not enough liberals in that seat to overcome the Republican base. The usual problem is that the lefties are there but they don't vote for petty reasons so we waste so much time and energy trying to convince and/or cajole them. Putting resources into a seat where they aren't there to turn out is silly. Run candidates in all fifty states but don't throw good money after bad supporting lost causes.
posted by Talez at 6:43 AM on April 12, 2017 [16 favorites]

The only real way you can go wrong when understanding Republican activities is if you underestimate the extent to which spite, hate, and bigotry motivates them. Liberals are evil, hurting liberals is good, college is liberal, therefore hurting colleges is good. It's really that simple.

******************

And yes, it's now time to fire Perez. WTF do we have a DNC for if not to try to win fucking seats? We've got to start hitting hard in traditional Republican areas or we've basically surrendered all future victories.

Now was the time for the DNC to go hog fucking wild spending on KS04 and GA06. And the DNC is, instead, telling Democrats in those areas to fuck off and die.

What, exactly, does Perez think the DNC exists for? To send out ads in areas that are safe Democratic wins?
posted by sotonohito at 6:44 AM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

What, exactly, does Perez think the DNC exists for? To send out ads in areas that are safe Democratic wins?

No. His job is to convince the left to fucking show up in marginal seats. As soon as they start reliably showing up we can try to run up the score. Until then we have to waste fucktons of money trying to convince people that voting against a fascist is really in their best interests.
posted by Talez at 6:47 AM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

video from the Newseum event this morning: Sean Spicer argues that the media is too focused on palace intrigue instead of policy, what WH is doing "to make the country better."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

I still think "fuck you, we won't spend a penny on this race" is a really bad idea, especially in a special election in an odd and unsettled time.

Sure, marginal is great. But KS04 and GA06 is a chance to see what gains can be made, what damage Trump is doing, and to measure the effects of a hard Democratic push in traditional Republican areas in the wake of Trump.

You get people to show up by advertising and pushing. You don't say "well, yawn, I guess if by magic some people show up I can start spending money but until then fuck you".

We're talking about two races, really the only two this year, as a test case.

I'm not advocating that the DNC throw millions at every race, I'm saying these two were special and should have merited special attention from the DNC, and spending money that would not normally be spent.

We need a fighter, instead we got someone who appears to be overly cautious and unwilling to take necessary risks or conduct experiments to see how far we can push things. Perez should go, we need someone who will take the fight to the Republicans instead of standing on the defensive. We need to be fighitng like rabid wolverines here, harnessing the rage and fear of our base, not sitting back in our towers fearful to spend even tiny amounts on "hopeless" races.
posted by sotonohito at 6:53 AM on April 12, 2017 [26 favorites]

They believe that maintaining control over the party apparatus is more important than going ham on the republicans. Whereas the Indivisible folks saw the Tea Party rowdy town hall strategy and thought "holy crap that worked! we gotta do that!," the DNC saw it and thought "holy crap, that worked! we gotta keep the base in line or we're in trouble!"

We see Tea Party tactics as effective. They see Tea Party tactics as a threat to their livelihoods.

That said, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape over Perez being useless here. My position is the same as it was right after the DNC chair election; we must assume that the DNC is useless, never trust them, and never rely on their support.

If they follow the base, that's fine. If they fail to follow, that's fine too — just gives activists more space to build a new party in the shell of the old one.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:53 AM on April 12, 2017 [38 favorites]

Trust in the party after the messes in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania followed by how close Kansas got from being, what, R+25?

It looks like the DNC staff is broken. Bad info, bad info collection, followed by bad decisions.

The opposition are the stupidest fascists the world has ever seen and this is the best the Dems can do.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:03 AM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

The opposition are stupid fascists with near infinite money.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:07 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

I, too, personally blame the Democratic Party leadership for losing a race in the historical heart of the anti-abortion movement by 7 instead of 30. And for not spending a lot of money for a well-funded candidate who is still going to have a runoff.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:08 AM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

The fact that Page was the "only American to have had his communications directly targeted with a FISA warrant in 2016 as part of the Russia probe" isn't a great sign.

I agree that it's not a great sign, but journalists are very careful with this type of phrasing and sometimes you need to parse like a lawyer. This could mean that other Americans were incidentally collected as they communicated with Carter Page and the foreign subjects of FISA warrants. Some of the reporting/conspiracy theories have suggested that other FISA warrants were sought against more senior Trumpers, but they were turned down. Those people may still have been indirectly monitored. Second, this statement is limited to 2016. It's possible that as things have heated up this year (with Flynn, for example), that additional warrants have been approved in 2017. Third, this is limited to FISA warrants. Comey testified that there is an ongoing national security and criminal investigation. The FBI could still have obtained criminal warrants unrelated to the national security counterintelligence case.
posted by stopgap at 7:09 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

It looks like the DNC staff is broken. Bad info, bad info collection, followed by bad decisions.

Yes, but it's also unrealistic to think that changing the person who is running the DNC is going to result in institutional change over night. The DNC isn't going to save us; the DCCC isn't going to save us; the DSCC isn't going to save us. Institutions take time to change. Thinking one dude can go in and fix systemic problems overnight is like thinking putting a "businessman" in charge of the government will fix all the problems in the government.

If you don't like the DNC, then tell them what they're doing wrong and donate/volunteer directly for campaigns. No one is forcing anyone to rely solely on the support of the DNC. I agree, I wish they'd get their shit together faster, but it's an unrealistic expectation. We have to raise money and spur turnout in these elections ourselves. Continually turning over the DNC chair position is not going to achieve the result we want.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:12 AM on April 12, 2017 [40 favorites]

Since my last comment was deleted without explanation, I'm going to leave two quotations from mainstream newspapers here. Is that OK?

DNC sits out KS-04 race

Thompson, a first-time candidate, was generally ignored by both parties for most of the race. When his campaign asked the state Democratic Party to fund a mailer, it was turned down, later investing just $3,000. In an interview last week, Democratic National Committee Chairman Thomas Perez said the national party would not be transferring any late money.

“We can make progress in Kansas,” Perez said. “There are thousands of elections every year, though. Can we invest in all of them? That would require a major increase in funds.”

Kansas Democratic Party sits out KS-04 race

The Thompson campaign believed the funding request would be a small investment to turn out Democrats needed to win the race, Curtis said.

"I don’t think it’s atypical for campaigns to ask parties to chip in. We asked the party to pay for a $20,000 mail project that would essentially be an early voter outreach," Curtis said.

Curtis referenced the party’s latest filing with the Federal Election Commission, which showed the party had $274,111 cash on hand at the end of February.

That figure appears to be in error, however.

A Feb. 20 letter from the FEC to the party says the filing lists a $143,000 transfer from "Hillary Victory Fund." But the FEC letter says a review shows only $14,300 was disbursed.

That would mean the party’s actual cash on hand was closer to $145,000.

posted by indubitable at 7:15 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Sure, marginal is great. But KS04 and GA06 is a chance to see what gains can be made

Democratic organizations are in a real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation here. Every dollar spent in KS-04 is not being spent in GA-06.

If you don't put lots of money into KS-04 and it turns out close, you see what you're seeing here today. If they'd put some money into KS-04 and it had still only been close, you'd see the same thing.

If you had put lots of money into KS-04 and then Ossof loses by a hair, I guaran-fucking-tee you the same armchair strategists would be talking about how stupid Perez is (even if we're talking about DCCC money that he doesn't control in the slightest), and how the Democrats are stupid to be spending money going after districts full of white racists that we don't need to appeal to to win nationwide, and we should be investing in races where there are more people of color to support, in states that are the future of the Democratic Party, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:16 AM on April 12, 2017 [34 favorites]

I just can't see the reasoning behind [DeVos's action].

Because fuck you, that's why.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:16 AM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

> We've just fired 59 missiles, all of which hit, by the way, unbelievable, from, you know, hundreds of miles away, all of which hit, amazing. So what happens is I said we've just launched 59 missiles heading to Iraq and I wanted you to know this. And he was eating his cake. And he was silent.

You know that thing cats (well, my cats, anyway) do when you're annoying them, where they avoid making eye contact with you as though their lives depend on it? If I were ever unlucky enough to have to eat dinner with Donald Trump I would probably be doing that - staring blankly, in silence, into the distance or at the surface of my plate - as he blabbed away about whatever the fuck he was talking about, whether it was baseball or chocolate cake or starting World War 3.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:17 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Putting resources into a seat where they aren't there to turn out is silly. Run candidates in all fifty states but don't throw good money after bad supporting lost causes.

Investing in these races, if done right, nourishes progressive communities in these areas. It gives local volunteers campaign experience. It builds name recognition for candidates that can be used in future races, for the same seat or for more local ones. It helps progressives network with each other. It provides an alternative to people in those areas who dislike mainstream political views but haven't yet been exposed to progressive views. And when you do better than expected, even if you don't win, it gives people hope for the future.
posted by galaxy rise at 7:19 AM on April 12, 2017 [25 favorites]

Asked whether it was 'too late' to ask Comey to step down as FBI lead:

No, it's not too late, but, you know, I have confidence in him. We'll see what happens. You know, it's going to be interesting.

I have no love for Comey, but I certainly prefer him to whichever flunky Trump would appoint to oversee the body that's investigating him. If Comey goes, I don't think there's a prayer of getting Trump out before 2020.
posted by gladly at 7:21 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

If you don't put lots of money into KS-04 and it turns out close, you see what you're seeing here today. If they'd put some money into KS-04 and it had still only been close, you'd see the same thing.

If only there were some way to query voters in the district about their opinions beforehand. Some way that would lead the Republican party to send in big names like Ted Cruz, Mike Pence and Donald Trump to shore up their candidate.
posted by indubitable at 7:21 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

In other Trump pick news, remember ex-state-senator Don Benton, who engaged in voter intimidation and illegally voted at the RNC, and got paid with an EPA post? Well, apparently he is so much of an asshole that even Pruitt can't stand him, and he's now being placed in charge of the Selective Service.
posted by corb at 7:23 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm a little stunned by the idea that we shouldn't waste time and energy right now going after "impossible" races. We are bursting with time and energy at the moment and looking for ways to channel our outrage. How many postcards and faxes are being sent? How many phone calls are being made? How many pussy hats and protest signs are being created? How many hours have been spent since the Presidential election at marches and meetings and canvassing? How much money has been donated to the ACLU and the NAACP and PP? I don't know about you but I have spent more time, effort, and money in the last 5 months promoting the Democratic ideals that I believe in and that are being shredded by this administration than I have ever spent on politics in my lifetime. And I know I am not alone. We are fucking energized and if the DNC doesn't harness that energy they will be steamrolled and left for junk on the side of the road. Who knows what will replace them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:24 AM on April 12, 2017 [55 favorites]

I just can't see the reasoning behind [DeVos's action].

Also, student loans have been made into "SLABs" (student loan asset backed securities), in the same way that mortgages were. I'd be willing to bet DeVos and her billionaire friends have some of these in their holdings (or, they're shorting SLABs and hoping to tank the underlying assets a la the subprime crisis).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:24 AM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

Being the macho dumbass that he is, he'd probably respond better to canine body language where eye contact is often an act of aggression. So your avoiding eye contact would register with him as a submissive act.

No, look that fucker in the eye until HE gets uncomfortable and looks away. Then keep doing it until he whimpers and rolls over with his belly to the sky.
posted by VTX at 7:25 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

TRUMP: You don't have a lot of wires. Look at this room. This room used to have a lot of wires. Now it doesn't have so many wires. But we talked about surveillance or whatever. And you look at the extent of the surveillance. Me and so many other people, it's terrible.

He is so stupid I am amazed that he manages to remember to breathe. Perhaps he pays someone to breathe for him.
posted by winna at 7:28 AM on April 12, 2017 [24 favorites]

Brain rot coming along nicely I see.
posted by Artw at 7:29 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

If I managed, say, a top ranked college football team, I would do everything I could do to promote the idea that teams shouldn't invest resources in lost causes. I would literally never lose a game — all the other teams would check the standings and concede before the game even started.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:30 AM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm a little stunned by the idea that we shouldn't waste time and energy right now going after "impossible" races. We are bursting with time and energy at the moment and looking for ways to channel our outrage.

Once you accept that "we" and "The Democratic Party" are two separate groups with different interests, it makes more sense.
posted by indubitable at 7:30 AM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

but they don't vote for petty reasons

What are those reasons, Talez? (genuine question)
posted by Melismata at 7:37 AM on April 12, 2017

When he was reading those charges, she was guilty on every charge.

I was just listening to a podcast this morning about how problematic it is for President Trump to accuse people of crimes. It's one thing to do it as a candidate. It's an entirely different category when you control the Department of Justice. On the bright side, it's probably an impeachable offense (abuse of power) should the Democrats manage to retake the House.
posted by diogenes at 7:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

I cheer for a mid-ranked college football team. We played at Ohio State this year.

We did not fire our head coach for losing to Ohio State. We moved on, and finished 10-3.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

how the Democrats are stupid to be spending money going after districts full of white racists that we don't need to appeal to to win nationwide, and we should be investing in races where there are more people of color to support, in states that are the future of the Democratic Party, etc.

I know you're attributing this statement to armchair strategists, not your views, so I'm not saying this to argue with you personally. But this is exactly the idea I'm pressing back against, and it's obviously the idea Perez subscribed to when he wrote KS-04 off as a lost cause. EVERY STATE SHOULD BE THE FUTURE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I live here in the middle of these states that some people want to write off and I believe we can win them. There are a lot of people suffering here because of lack of jobs, lack of healthcare, lack of family support, lack of education, all the things my party has a plan to fix. There is a message, a progressive message, that will reach them. If not them, then their kids. We just have to find the right way to express it. And strike while the iron is hot.

(And there are people of color here, too. Not as many. But they don't deserve to be abandoned either. Nor do the queer people or people with disabilities or women who want to control their reproductive destinies or any one else the GOP wants to fuck over.)

If I believe that, I want my party leadership to believe it too.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:42 AM on April 12, 2017 [21 favorites]

Once you accept that "we" and "The Democratic Party" are two separate groups with different interests, it makes more sense.

Campaign funds aren't an endless font of money that renew over time like some sort of money spring. You only have so many dollars that will happen over four years. The money the DNC will save on not committing seppuku on KS-04 can go to more useful projects like unseating Issa or Steve Knight or Barbara Comstock which are far closer and far higher profile in the R leadership.

What are those reasons, Talez?

It's usually some pet issue that they're not 100% sold about the D approach despite the fact that the R approach is guaranteed to be many times worse. This couple thousand words of tripe for example. Hillary just wasn't good enough. He's not going to vote for her. Now look at where we are. I'm sure Mr Glaude is perfectly fine in his upper middle class New Jersey but for the rest of the minorities that are witnessing a massive resurgence in the drug war, it's cata-fucking-strophic.
posted by Talez at 7:43 AM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

The FBI could still have obtained criminal warrants unrelated to the national security counterintelligence case.

For sure. There's still hope. Just a little bit less of it. FISA warrants for real players in the Trump administration would have been a sign that they had solid evidence early on. A warrant for Carter Page isn't really a sign of anything other than how dumb Carter Page is.
posted by diogenes at 7:44 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re. the Fox interview: I don't have cable so maybe this is common knowledge, but has Bartiromo always been such an ass-kisser?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:45 AM on April 12, 2017

Late to the party this morning, but: SPECIAL ELECTIONS

* KS-04 - Obviously, disappointing to not pull the earth-shattering upset. That said, cutting it to 6.8 points is a huge achievement - about 20 point swing from the presidential result. As it happens, CA-34 last week was about a 20 point swing, too....

Absolutely. This result is a win for the Democrats no matter what. Republican politicians just got served notice that Trump's abysmal approval ratings have legs -- to the turn of a potential 20-point swing in the Democrats' favor -- at the ballot box. Now every single Republican in Congress is going to be re-evaluating the wisdom of tying themselves to Trump.

I hope somewhere at Democratic headquarters someone is busy with a Sharpie coloring a map of Congressional districts blue.
posted by Gelatin at 7:48 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

The other problem with it only being Carter Page is that it means that any intelligence gathered on Trump officials during the campaign would only be incidental collection when they talked to Russians. It makes it much less likely that we're ever going to see smoking gun level evidence.
posted by diogenes at 7:48 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Johnny Wallflower: What stupid fucking thing has Betsy DeVos done lately? Funny you should ask: Education Secretary DeVos Withdraws Protections For Student Loan Borrowers (Consumerist).

Johnny Wallflower: Cabinet-level snowflake Betsy DeVos burdens taxpayers more than any previous SecEd: Security for Betsy DeVos Costing Education Dept. Nearly $8M for 8 Months (WaPo)

Shifted priorities: keep DeVos safe, not the students.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:48 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

But is there any actual reason why Mitch McConnell can't just nuke the filibuster for regular legislation too?

I don't think he can get the votes for that. The moderate Rs like the filibuster because it means they don't have to take positions on controversial issues. I think it's much more likely that they try to mess with the parliamentarian position to say something passes the "Byrd Bath" even though it's obvious that it doesn't.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:49 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Freelance journalist Paul Blest on his personal Medium page: The DCCC Thinks You're an Idiot.

The line from some Democrats in the wake of the closer-than-expected Kansas special election was fairly predictable: don’t cry because it’s over (Democrat James Thompson lost by seven points), but smile because it happened. (Only seven!)

The results are encouraging for progressives, and no one in their right mind can be disappointed at a single-digit loss in one of the most conservative districts in the country. But those kudos should be reserved for the work of Thompson and his staff, and for groups like the Daily Kos and Democracy for America, which raised a ton of money for Thompson when the national party ignored the race because conventional wisdom said they were going to get thrashed.

It’s not surprising that some Democrats have rushed to the defense of the national party as it’s getting (rightfully) shredded, but it is a bit shocking that they’re presenting the argument that Thompson’s campaign was better off without money like it’s a no-brainer. “If you’re following a pundit that says “if national Dems threw money into KS-04 they could’ve won!” unfollow them. They’re not very smart,” said Democratic pollster Matt McDermott, a guy who also said anyone who thought Clinton could lose Pennsylvania should ‘never work in American politics again.’ “National Dems jumping into a House race in Kansas would’ve totally killed Dem chances. How you win? Stay under the radar. Keep it local.”

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:49 AM on April 12, 2017 [17 favorites]

Question for you folks: People are talking about how the GOP tax cuts ("reform") will need to go through reconciliation to pass, because of the Senate filibuster. But is there any actual reason why Mitch McConnell can't just nuke the filibuster for regular legislation too?

So, it's one thing on nominations: Republican Senators vote to confirm Republican nominee. That's not all that hard a choice for them.

But Senators like having the filibuster, because it gives them cover to ignore whatever crazy-ass bills come out of the House. "Sorry, but we just can't get the supermajority we need. I guess we'll have to wait until next time to privatize Social Security." Even if McConnell personally wants to kill the legislative filibuster (and who knows with him), he would have to do an awful lot of convincing of his narrow majority, and it would have to be for the right bill.

Passing a tax cut through reconciliation just means you pass a smaller tax cut maybe, and it sunsets after 10 years. That's Somebody Else's Problem.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:53 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

I was just listening to a podcast this morning about how problematic it is for President Trump to accuse people of crimes. It's one thing to do it as a candidate. It's an entirely different category when you control the Department of Justice. On the bright side, it's probably an impeachable offense (abuse of power) should the Democrats manage to retake the House.

Lawyers For Bowe Bergdahl Say He Can't Get A Fair Trial After Trump Criticisms

It's called "undue command influence", and it is a huge problem under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, to the point that if I were working on the defense side of a court-martial, I would do everything in my power to get someone to ask Trump about my client's case in public.
posted by Etrigan at 7:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [42 favorites]

To wit, 60+ senators, which necessarily includes over a quarter of the Republican caucus, sent McConnell a letter telling him to keep his hands off the legislative filibuster after the Gorsuch vote.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Democratic Party is creaky, wheezy, and held together with duck tape. It's still all we have. Believe me, here in Texas, we know all about what it means to be ignored because you're too red to be considered worth it. We're basically in the position of having to "prove" we can be won...by winning without help.

If we had a better option than "get as much as we can from the national party but assume the rest is up to us," we would go for it, but that seems to be where we are. We are out here in the red hinterlands, scrambling as best we can to assemble the votes we know are out there, without much more than our own pooled resources.

But what else can we do? Giving up means letting the country burn without even trying to stop it.
posted by emjaybee at 7:56 AM on April 12, 2017 [24 favorites]

So I know this is anecdata, but my dad seems to be off the Trump train as a result of Syria bombing + Spicey. And he's dyed really, really deep red. I think it's quite possible a lot of those KS votes are crossing the aisle.
posted by corb at 7:56 AM on April 12, 2017 [28 favorites]

(INAUDIBLE) to Syria?

Trump is Montgomery Burns, only much less charming:

"Have the Rolling Stones killed!"
"But Sir, those aren't..."
"Do as I say!"
posted by sour cream at 7:57 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

He can't give a coherent and complete answer that lasts longer than a paragraph

This struck me the first time I watched one of his speeches for any length of time (it was that revolting Republican conservative group thing, where Bannon and Priebus did a slot the day before he came on) and I was amazed at how he was just rambling - saying nothing over and over again, and yet nobody seemed to think it was odd
posted by Myeral at 7:57 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

But this is exactly the idea I'm pressing back against, and it's obviously the idea Perez subscribed to when he wrote KS-04 off as a lost cause.

I sort of agree with you. At least, insofar as Democratic organizations probably shouldn't be thinking just about immediate vote returns for their money. It might be worth spending a relatively small amount of money on races like KS-04 even if you don't think your candidate has much of a chance. Not really to win the race, but to keep voters in the region enthusiastic for the midterms, to build networks of supporters in the area, to build and maintain support for Wichita local elections and state legislative races in the area, etc. And to give activists and workers in the central US something to do right now, so that people in north Texas or Colorado stay energized and enthusiastic.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:00 AM on April 12, 2017 [20 favorites]

Once you accept that "we" and "The Democratic Party" are two separate groups with different interests, it makes more sense.

I'm starting to think about this more and more. What if it IS time for coagulating a new group? Browbeating people into doing something you think they should do never works. They have to come of their own volition. Call it the fucking Common Sense Majority Party, call it the Purple Party, whatever.

What if we stepped back from the same old Us vs Them bullshit, deferred our judgment for more than two fucking seconds, and considered the possibility? Is it really any harder than fixing the D party? Or is it unwillingness to step out of the It's Always Been Done This Way routine?

We have, after all, devoted several thousand comments worth to Trump et al alone. It's not like we don't need a slight change of subject occasionally. Maybe it will even shift the efforts to proactive from reactive. I think we owe it a genuine look, and it'll involve admitting some hard things.

And if we want to stick with the 2 party stagnation, then I think Melissasaurus is right: If you don't like the DNC, then tell them what they're doing wrong and donate/volunteer directly for campaigns. No one is forcing anyone to rely solely on the support of the DNC.
posted by yoga at 8:01 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

The FBI could still have obtained criminal warrants unrelated to the national security counterintelligence case.
----
For sure. There's still hope. Just a little bit less of it. FISA warrants for real players in the Trump administration would have been a sign that they had solid evidence early on. A warrant for Carter Page isn't really a sign of anything other than how dumb Carter Page is.

I don't find the Carter Page FISA warrant discouraging. We know from reporting earlier this year that the FBI went for 4 FISA warrants and got turned down. Went back again and got one. So they clearly wanted to surveil more and thought they had justification. I think the one warrant says more that the FISA court was reluctant to give a bunch of warrants against higher ups in an active presidential campaign than that there's nothing there.

The four people are assumed to be Page, Manafort, Flynn, and Cohen. So they got a warrant for Page, they nailed Flynn from incidental surveillance, they probably have Manafort from incidental surveillance plus all the other stuff that's leaked and been found in the Panama Papers, and they probably have Cohen on incidental surveillance plus the stuff that's leaked and the Steele report.

As Charles Pierce wrote this morning, the Carter Page revelation isn't bad news for us, the fact that it leaked is a warning shot and bad news for Team Trump.
posted by chris24 at 8:04 AM on April 12, 2017 [18 favorites]

“If you’re following a pundit that says “if national Dems threw money into KS-04 they could’ve won!” unfollow them. They’re not very smart,” said Democratic pollster Matt McDermott, a guy who also said anyone who thought Clinton could lose Pennsylvania should ‘never work in American politics again.’ “National Dems jumping into a House race in Kansas would’ve totally killed Dem chances. How you win? Stay under the radar. Keep it local.”

Kind of like how you "keep it under the radar" in Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio by not showing up, thus tricking the Trump campaign into not investing resources there. Brilliant, I'm pleased to see this guy is still employed as a pollster and strategist.
posted by indubitable at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

You guys wanna win in Kansas? You gotta start caring about the people in Kansas. Not just writing them off as racist old white people whose votes we don't need, and who should just accept that their small towns are inefficient and need to disappear. Not linking to any examples of MeFites making these arguments because I don't want to call out or embarrass anyone personally, but I've certainly seen it.

I mean, many of them are racist old white people, but they're still people, and they have real problems. Their towns are dying, and their families are abandoning them because there are no jobs close to home, and they are suffering from drug problems and depression.

Republicans are offering them scapegoats for those problems. That's not a real solution. But the problems are real.

How are we going to save their towns? How are we going to make their communities vibrant again? We're insisting (accurately) that immigrants and foreigners aren't to blame for what has happened to their communities, but if not, who should they blame, and what are our solutions?

Actually caring about the concerns of people in Kansas will go a lot further toward winning elections there than spending $20,000 on a mailer.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2017 [31 favorites]

We could try giving them affordable healthcare I guess
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:12 AM on April 12, 2017 [74 favorites]

Freelance journalist Paul Blest on his personal Medium page: The DCCC Thinks You're an Idiot.

If you look at the actual quotes in the article, a more honest headline would be "Some pollster that isn't actually part of the DCCC thinks you're an idiot. Also, I disagree with the DCCC's stated strategic concerns."
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:13 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Guardian: We are told Tillerson has gone to the Kremlin for an expected meeting with Putin
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Affordable health care is great and its a message that can win, I really believe. But it doesn't solve the problem of decaying communities, where the young people are fleeing and the old people are left alone amid the ruins of a once prosperous town.

(Nor does blaming immigrants and "globalists" solve that problem, but it at least pretends to.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:17 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

Actually caring about the concerns of people in Kansas will go a lot further toward winning elections there than spending $20,000 on a mailer.

This is baloney. The Democrats clearly do care about the needs and concerns of Kansans. We needed a way to effectivley communicate that to the voters, and a $20k mailer would have helped. The GOP pulled out every goddamn stop to hang onto that seat, going so far as to have Pence and Trump robocalls and Cruz pressing the flesh as part of a concerted ground game. They knew how important this seat was. The DNC did not, does not, and frankly couldn't care. They need to go.

There are people in the Party who have put together national and regional campaigns that have had great success against Republicans, notably Howard Dean and Keith Ellison. These aren't untried mavericks, nor do they need years worth of institutional unwinding to put their techniques into effect. They just need Perez and the rest of the loser leadership to step aside, or to be firmly told to step aside.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:18 AM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

The four people are assumed to be Page, Manafort, Flynn, and Cohen. So they got a warrant for Page, they nailed Flynn from incidental surveillance, they probably have Manafort from incidental surveillance plus all the other stuff that's leaked and been found in the Panama Papers, and they probably have Cohen on incidental surveillance plus the stuff that's leaked and the Steele report.

It's all well and good if Manafort, Flynn, and Cohen get their comeuppance through incidental surveillance, but none of it matters if Trump remains president. FISA warrants for those other three guys could have made all the difference. Can you imagine if we had recordings of Flynn and Manafort talking to each other through the summer of 2016?
posted by diogenes at 8:19 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Kind of like how you "keep it under the radar" in Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio by not showing up, thus tricking the Trump campaign into not investing resources there. Brilliant, I'm pleased to see this guy is still employed as a pollster and strategist.

Definitely would have been smarter to make this about Estes vs Corrupt DNC/Crooked Hillary/Obama Machine instead of Estes vs Thompson.

Also, the Clinton campaign was in Ohio. Every week they had events in Ohio. Can this stupid meme die?
posted by asteria at 8:21 AM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

I'm starting to think about this more and more. What if it IS time for coagulating a new group? Browbeating people into doing something you think they should do never works. They have to come of their own volition. Call it the fucking Common Sense Majority Party, call it the Purple Party, whatever.

I really hope people form their own groups, to the point of a parallel "party" infrastructure. By all means, a parallel system of fundraising and messaging sounds great.

Just please don't make an actual separate party. The Tea Party reshaped the GOP by 1) aggressive voting in the primaries and 2) lockstep voting in the general. If the Tea Party had gone off and actually become a separate party, then both the Tea Party and the GOP would have lost to the Dems in any district they didn't collectively have 66%+ of the votes in.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:22 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Do it inside the Democratic party and change it from within. Splitting a ticket between the Democratic Party and [some other party] is a really great way for both parties to lose to Republicans in 2018 and onwards.

Agreed - we shouldn't be splitting tickets on general election ballots. But, if we have someone who is running as a Democrat but isn't getting sufficient support from the DCCC, we can organize that support ourselves. So the DCCC wouldn't give Thompson $20K for mailers, what's stopping 10 of us from getting 10 of our friends to donate $10 each to his campaign directly and then asking those friends to find 10 people to make donations, etc?

I don't donate to the DCCC or DSCC because I have an anti-Hyde-amendment rule -- I want to make sure my money doesn't go to anyone who supports the Hyde amendment. But it's SO easy to contribute to people's campaigns directly now, that there's no reason to go through the DCCC/DSCC. And since it's not necessary to go through them, we can stop caring so much about what they do or do not do. We don't need to change them from within or from without; through our activism we can make them irrelevant.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:24 AM on April 12, 2017 [25 favorites]

I don't know, I'm no political genius, but winning a seat in deep-red Kansas probably wouldn't have been a good fundraising hook or motivation for Democrats in other states or anything.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:24 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

More Newseum video:

Wolff: Trump doesn't like @maggieNYT.
Conway: Why would you say that?
Wolff: Because he's told me.
Conway: That is not true, how dare you.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:25 AM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

They just need Perez and the rest of the loser leadership

He's been DNC chair for six weeks.

The hysteria in this thread over the Dems over-performing in a close race in blood red Kansas is baffling. Can we wait to see how Ossoff does before the rending of clothes begins?

We are fucking energized and if the DNC doesn't harness that energy they will be steamrolled and left for junk on the side of the road. Who knows what will replace them.

What's stopping people from getting involved locally? I don't understand.
posted by asteria at 8:29 AM on April 12, 2017 [37 favorites]

It's all well and good if Manafort, Flynn, and Cohen get their comeuppance through incidental surveillance, but none of it matters if Trump remains president. FISA warrants for those other three guys could have made all the difference. Can you imagine if we had recordings of Flynn and Manafort talking to each other through the summer of 2016?

Oh, I agree it would have made things much easier and I wish they'd gotten them. But I also think getting a warrant for the campaign manager of a presidential candidate along with several other advisors back at that time was a heavy lift. And honestly, I want the FISA court to be reluctant to grant broad powers to law enforcement regarding elections and politics. Anyway, my main point was that I don't think it means there's nothing there, it'll just take work to dig it out, or pressing on Flynn, et al to roll over on others up the food chain.
posted by chris24 at 8:34 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

@Bencjacobs
It's pretty remarkable that the circular firing squad in #KS04 tonight is being convened by the party that over performed by 20 points
posted by chris24 at 8:38 AM on April 12, 2017 [47 favorites]

It might be worth spending a relatively small amount of money on races like KS-04 even if you don't think your candidate has much of a chance. Not really to win the race, but to keep voters in the region enthusiastic for the midterms, to build networks of supporters in the area, to build and maintain support for Wichita local elections and state legislative races in the area, etc.

I agree. Two other points: Yes, campaign funds are a finite resource, but forcing Republicans to defend what should be safe seats keeps them from expanding their map (and sending high-profile surrogates like Pence wastes time they could be using for shenanigans elsewhere).

And investing in victories -- or even unusually close losses like Kansas! -- helps create a media narrative that there's a growing Democratic wave building, which helps increase funding, enthusiasm, etc. Remember the so-called tea party, and how fascinated the media were by what was obviously an astroturf rebranding effort for the most hardcore Republicans?
posted by Gelatin at 8:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's pretty remarkable that the circular firing squad in #KS04 tonight is being convened by the party that over performed by 20 points

Ding ding ding ding ding. Winner winner, chicken dinner.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on April 12, 2017 [21 favorites]

It's pretty remarkable that the circular firing squad in #KS04 tonight is being convened by the party that over performed by 20 points.

Democrats could start a circular firing squad about circular firing squads. We're that good at it.
posted by diogenes at 8:40 AM on April 12, 2017 [23 favorites]

It's pretty remarkable that the circular firing squad in #KS04 tonight is being convened by the party that over performed by 20 points

Look, we have traditions
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:40 AM on April 12, 2017 [60 favorites]

Campaign funds aren't an endless font of money that renew over time like some sort of money spring. You only have so many dollars that will happen over four years.

I disagree with this idea, Talez. The reason why I donate to the ACLU, NAACP, and PP is because I see real progress from them. I donated to the DNC during and right after the election but I no longer feel like my money is doing any good. If anything they are busy building a big war chest so that they can throw the corporate donors big parties and squeeze more out of them. Perez is shapping up to be more of the same and that breaks my heasrt because I thought they had gotten spanked hard enough to learn their lesson. Turns out they are just going to run Clinton 2.0.

I think I was advocating the "Common Sense Party" months ago because it seems like so much of what drives us all crazy is the lack of foresight, logic, and common sense. Human Rights for everyone is just plain common sense. The bottom 99% of the country sharing in the prosperity of the nation is just plain common sense. Protecting the little guy from the predations of immense corporations, increasing the quality of education for everyone-- regardless of citizenship status, improving the quality of our air and water, supporting the scientific society, and above all, working on slowing down Climate Change, NOW! all seems like basic, common sense that will improve the lives of all Americans.

So to be clear, I'm not advocating for a brand new party because that would hand over this country to the Republican Far Right for a generation or two, but I am advocating for a Far Left (heh*) branch of the Democrats. One that says, we can't leave anyone behind-- not the old racists in Arkansas, not the Trans people in North Carolina, not the Hispanics in Texas, nor the Blacks in Mississippi. We have to drag this country into the 21st century and progress by any means possible.

*I laugh bitterly because basic human decency and rights for all should not be "Far Left" concepts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:40 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

chris24: As Charles Pierce wrote this morning, the Carter Page revelation isn't bad news for us, the fact that it leaked is a warning shot and bad news for Team Trump.

But more significant to me, anyway, is the fact that all of this leaked—the warrant and the specific individual against whom it was filed. This just doesn't happen. This can't be anything but a warning shot from the intelligence community. We know, and you know we know, so how about you watch your step for a while?

"Watch your step for a while" doesn't sound nearly as threatening as it should be. I know Pierce is not in the Intelligence Community, and he doesn't speak for the IC, but I'm hoping for more damning news, not "we know what you did, so [be nice to us/ give Russia some distance]."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:41 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Some nice news out of Oregon today: The Republican secretary of state proposed a policy change to prevent thousands people from being classified as "inactive" and removed from voter rolls .
posted by bassooner at 8:41 AM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

It's not a circular firing squad. Good lord.

Tom Perez is not our friend. He's not our leader. He's not an inspiration to us. He is our victim. Just like Ellison or Dean or whoever would be in that spot. If he's not doing what we want him to, that's not a personal failing on his part. It just means we're not bullying him hard enough.

If we get the DNC frightened enough, they will follow us. If they don't follow us, no skin off our backs — we'll just continue organizing ourselves, and we'll just continue following our real leaders. And the DNC will learn to fear us or they will wither into irrelevance.

I see no circular firing squad situation here. Am I missing something?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:44 AM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

What's the catch?
posted by Artw at 8:44 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

As Charles Pierce wrote this morning, the Carter Page revelation isn't bad news for us, the fact that it leaked is a warning shot and bad news for Team Trump.

I disagree. We've known about the FISA warrant for months. The Carter Page revelation is that the warrant was only for the weakest link of the bunch. How is that a warning shot?
posted by diogenes at 8:44 AM on April 12, 2017

cjelli Do it inside the Democratic party and change it from within. Splitting a ticket between the Democratic Party and [some other party] is a really great way for both parties to lose to Republicans in 2018 and onwards.

This a thousand times.

The Democratic Party is made up of thousands of county parties and 50 state parties. Mostly those local parties are a tiny handful of actually active volunteers. It is preposterously easy to get in, acquire position and power, and move things the direction you want them to move.

I'm a precinct chair, and therefore part of my county's executive committee. I'm walking my precinct, getting people registered to vote, and generally kicking ass that way. I'm also voting in the Party meetings for a more leftist agenda and more leftist candidates and local Party officials.

I'm pushing hard to get our local Party in closer coordination with our local Indivisible groups, which will also have an inevitable nudge in the direiton I'd like to see the Party moving.

If all you're doing is complaining online, then you're not accomplishing anything. Get to your county Party, sign up for as much as you can spare the time for, and get active! If you're an active and vital part of your local Party you've automatically got influence and the ability to move things your direction.

How do you think the Party got to where it is today? Magic? inevitability? Physical Laws? No, it got there by people getting active in the Party, getting power and influence, and moving the Party their direction.

Parallel structures are nice too, if you can promise funds or voters or volunteers you can use that to steer your local Party, but the real power is in getting the Party headed our way.

Third Parties are utterly doomed and nothing but a way to give victory to the Republicans. I'll vote for absolutely any candidate the Democrats put up, no matter how odious or reprehensible I find them. But in between general elections I'm working my ass off to get the Party pointed in a direction more in line with my ideals. It'll never match up perfectly, but I can at least try to point it more my way.
posted by sotonohito at 8:45 AM on April 12, 2017 [46 favorites]

Upper level Democratic party people are almost universally very rich. We all know how well rich people do when Republicans are in charge (they made out like literal bandits from the recession, for example). They may have an incentive to keep their own jobs (though not much of one -- look at Howard Dean, health care corporation lobbyist, for example), but they have no interest whatsoever in breaking a Republican hegemony that benefits them financially.

It's pretty remarkable that the circular firing squad in #KS04 tonight is being convened by the party that over performed by 20 points

It's not a circular firing squad. It's The People firing at leadership that consistently shows it has no interest in winning elections.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:45 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

I see no circular firing squad situation here. Am I missing something?

I think you're missing the part where theoretical allies are attacking each other.
posted by diogenes at 8:45 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

chris24: @Bencjacobs It's pretty remarkable that the circular firing squad in #KS04 tonight is being convened by the party that over performed by 20 points

"Over performed" assumes that the prior results were normal or what one should expect. It seems we're solidly into the time for a serious pendulum swing back to the left, so now is the time to push on all fronts, as far as we can afford to do so. This still means picking battles, because we can't fund them all, unless funding increases, which should be the message instead of "sorry, we don't have the money for this."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:46 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

The hysteria in this thread

This kind of (gendered) hyperbole is not a great way to facilitate discussion.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:46 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

CBS' Margaret Brennan, on twitter: If you're wondering why the US press doesn't have pictures of Secretary Tillerson at the Kremlin, that's because he ditched his press pool
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:48 AM on April 12, 2017 [24 favorites]

We are fucking energized and if the DNC doesn't harness that energy they will be steamrolled and left for junk on the side of the road. Who knows what will replace them.

What's stopping people from getting involved locally? I don't understand.
posted by asteria at 11:29 AM on April 12

Network, structure, knowledge. There are people who are sitting their homes right now not even aware of what just happened that probably feel bad about the news coming out of the White House or even the State of Kansas itself but they didn't realize they have the ability to change things. Or didn't know there was an election. Or just feel like "both sides are the same." The Democratic National Party has so firmly given up on Kansas that there isn't much of a structure there. This is what we are all complaining about now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

This is why Dems lose.

One loss and it's all "it's never going to work, fuck everything, I'm out!"

Republicans don't care if they lose. They ignore it if they can like North Carolina's gubernatorial election proved. They don't care about facts or ethics or consistency. They just go out to win and pass their stupid fucking agenda. They lose? Who gives a fuck? They're onto the next one and they'll go in even harder on their dumb agenda. Look at the 2012 autopsy and what happened in 2016. They lose the popular vote by 3 million? Who cares? They'll still govern like they won by 5 million. They lose and they'll say they're winners and everyone will believe them because they keep saying it.

But Dems? Every loss is a round of blaming and recriminations and every success is met with distrust.
posted by asteria at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2017 [49 favorites]

Also, "over performed" pretends that the percentage of support is pretty fixed, when recent history says otherwise (link upthread to the KS-4 results, which range from 04: R+35, to 96: R+3. Previously, the greatest jump was from 96: R+3 to 98: R+19, so '17: R+5 (incomplete) to 16: R+31 is a serious drop for R, but everything is [electoral] precedent, until it's not (XKCD).
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Network, structure, knowledge. There are people who are sitting their homes right now not even aware of what just happened that probably feel bad about the news coming out of the White House or even the State of Kansas itself but they didn't realize they have the ability to change things.

You're telling me there are people out there aware of a close race in Kansas but not aware of Indivisible or SwingLeft? Aside from the people who live in Kansas' 4th district, I'm having a hard time imagining how that happens but okay.


This kind of (gendered) hyperbole is not a great way to facilitate discussion.

Hysteria isn't a gendered word. If you saw it as such, I'd think about why that is and also why you assume everyone comes from the same cultural and linguistic background. Not everyone has English as a first language.
posted by asteria at 8:53 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: Guardian: We are told Tillerson has gone to the Kremlin for an expected meeting with Putin

roomthreeseventeen: CBS' Margaret Brennan, on twitter: If you're wondering why the US press doesn't have pictures of Secretary Tillerson at the Kremlin, that's because he ditched his press pool

Was he yawning before he snuck off, and if so, were they believable yawns, or was he using his nap time as a cover for something else?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:54 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

The freaking out (by men and women presumably) in this thread over the Dems over-performing in a close race in blood red Kansas is baffling. Can we wait to see how Ossoff does before the rending of clothes begins?
posted by diogenes at 8:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted. Since we've rehearsed the greatest hits of why establishment dems are bad, why establishment dems aren't so bad, what's a circular firing squad, etc, maybe we can move on from there to forward looking topics. And let's just call the issue about the term "hysteria" noted, rather than digging in on that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

So I know this is anecdata, but my dad seems to be off the Trump train as a result of Syria bombing + Spicey.

Really?
So he was totally cool with the whole pussy-grabbing stuff, the perennial lying, the mocking of disabled people, the self-aggrandizing, the denigration and destruction of anyone who crossed him, the four bankruptcies, the incoherent rambling, the wall-building and the undisclosed tax returns?
But throwing a few bombs at an airfield in retaliation for a dictator using chemical weapons, that is a step too far?

I mean, it's good news that some people are starting to see the light, but ... sometimes I just don't understand people.
posted by sour cream at 8:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [29 favorites]

In other news, Trump thinks it's not too late to fire Comey.
posted by asteria at 9:00 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is there some way for Democrats in solidly blue states/areas to reach out to those in red states like Kansas and help them organize? If the problem is that Dems in red states are left adrift, and the party establishment isn't going to do anything to help them, how can the grassroots help? In other words, if the DNC etc. are not going to do the 50-state strategy, can we?

I think it's important to have the Democrats reach out beyond their base, and help encourage the embryonic Democratic parties in red states to grow. After all, as a poster in the previous thread pointed out, states, counties, etc. don't just turn blue because the Democrat Fairy sprinkled magic blue pixie dust on them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:06 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Is there some way for Democrats in solidly blue states/areas to reach out to those in red states like Kansas and help them organize? If the problem is that Dems in red states are left adrift, and the party establishment isn't going to do anything to help them, how can the grassroots help? In other words, if the DNC etc. are not going to do the 50-state strategy, can we?

Rob Quist is a progressive running for Montana's at-large seat, the election isn't until May 25th and he's received very little support from the Democratic Party. I'm sure individuals donating now can help.
posted by indubitable at 9:14 AM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

In other news, Trump thinks it's not too late to fire Comey.


i suspect if he actually tries to fire Comey, he may find that it is too late after all.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:20 AM on April 12, 2017 [20 favorites]

Is there some way for Democrats in solidly blue states/areas to reach out to those in red states like Kansas and help them organize?

You might sign up for or keep tabs on flippable.org, if you're not already. They'll tell you what special elections are upcoming, who's running, and how to donate to or volunteer for them.
posted by Stacey at 9:27 AM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

One thing I do wonder is if it would help if more nationally known Dems/liberals made appearances with candidates. This happens during election years and when we have a Dem president they'll campaign for a candidate but at times like these, that seems to fall by the wayside.

If Thompson was a Bernie-style candidate, why not get Bernie out there to help? Same thing with Montana since Bernie won there. Or get Bill out to Montana and Hillz to Georgia.
posted by asteria at 9:36 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

But throwing a few bombs at an airfield in retaliation for a dictator using chemical weapons, that is a step too far? I mean, it's good news that some people are starting to see the light, but ... sometimes I just don't understand people.

I'm noting a lot of people on right wing social media who are very mad at Trump about the Syria strike, and the same among Republicans I know personally.

They see this as Trump violating his "America First" campaign promises, putting American blood and treasure at risk for the sake of foreigners. I've seen sentiments on social media to the effect of "Let the Arabs kill each other. That's what they always do. No reason for us to get involved."

My mom is framing it more acceptably to me in terms of "no more unwinnable foreign wars," which I kind of agree with. It's weird and uncomfortable for me to be agreeing with the Breitbart party line, though.

(Though I think I personally would have supported a very limited strike like this, IF it had been done with UN approval and NATO support, and the approval of Congress, as a part of a coherent policy toward Syria, by a leader who had some integrity and credibility when talking about human rights issues and international norms...)

Trump seems to have gotten a small popularity bump from the attack, but I kind of think the bump was from "Foreign policy consensus" moderates who want to enforce norms against chemical weapons and Assad's other brutalities, plus neo-con hawks who just like to see America projecting power in general... And that support will evaporate quickly next time Trump does something like dissing NATO or baiting China again. Meanwhile I think he took a hit among his paleo-con and alt-right base, and that trust won't be so easily recovered. Especially if he also throws Bannon under the bus as he's hinted.

The Tomahawk strike may have cost him in the long run by eroding his support among his base, while buying him only much less durable support from the more conventional parts of the political world.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:42 AM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

You're telling me there are people out there aware of a close race in Kansas but not aware of Indivisible or SwingLeft? Aside from the people who live in Kansas' 4th district, I'm having a hard time imagining how that happens but okay.

No I'm not talking about voters who knew it was a close race, I'm talking about those who don't normally vote or who vote in Presidential elections but not in off years. Those are the people who are going to make a difference-- turning a solid Red district into light Blue. The Democrats have given up so much ground in the last 8 years we have to start clawing back.

The freaking out (by men and women presumably) in this thread over the Dems over-performing in a close race in blood red Kansas is baffling.

Speaking only for myself, I'm not freaking out over the results, I'm freaking out over the new DNC chairman being so dismissive of helping the Democratic challenger.

I'm not even really "freaking out" or getting "hysterical" I am voicing concern over this first big test of the new Perez leadership and worrying that it is indicative of the way he is going to guide the DNC to business as usual. These are not usual times and Seize the Day is not just a motto.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:43 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

My mom is framing it more acceptably to me in terms of "no more unwinnable foreign wars," which I kind of agree with. It's weird and uncomfortable for me to be agreeing with the Breitbart party line, though.

My reaction is exactly this: no more quagmires by engaging militarily when we have no idea what victory looks like or who we should be supporting. This strike was particularly stupid, as it did nothing to impede or punish Assad. The flip side, of course, is that we should open our fucking doors to refugees, particularly when we wind up killing them.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:49 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

For those who feel as conflicted as I do about how we should respond to foreign dictators killing children and other innocent civilians with poison gas -- I think Senator Chris Murphy is showing some leadership in this area:

Rethinking The Battlefield

America must have the capacity to truly respond to security crises before they necessitate the deployment of troops and missiles.
...
The root of the crisis in Syria, and its ultimate resolution, are problems that cannot be solved with cruise missiles alone. They require political, social, and economic solutions.

When a problem is diagnosed as a military problem, the Department of Defense never has to worry about having enough money or capacity and support from Congress. But when a problem, like Syria, is diagnosed as a political or economic or social problem, no one can even imagine a real solution because the agencies that do that work, State and USAID, are set up to fail – only given funding crumbs and never resourced to actually win, just to keep the doors open.

posted by OnceUponATime at 9:50 AM on April 12, 2017 [48 favorites]

So instead of holding town halls and listening to his constituents, TMZ found Paul Ryan screwing around at Universal Studios.

Better than having to explain why he was trying so hard to make sure 24 million people can't get healthcare--and why 7 years of promises fell through, even with all three branches of government. Paul Ryan, insufferably smug fraud, needs to get voted out of Congress as soon as possible.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:52 AM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

I want to echo sotonohito's point about how easy it is to get involved. At my legislative district's re-org meeting the previous year's elected PCOs (precinct committee officers) vote on the main officers, then the entire membership (PCOs and dues paying members) vote on the rest. I got elected to one role basically because ... I was the only one nominated. I got nominated because I had been talking to some folks who are active already in the org saying I wanted to do something so they nominated me. Getting elected a PCO is trivially easy -- you literally file a form with county elections and if you're the only one that files you win by default which is almost always what happens and despite that most PCO spots don't have elected PCOs (so we spend time appointing folks from that precinct). The barrier to entry is literally being willing to show up to monthly boring meetings (if you want to have influence you'll have to do more). I grant not everyone can do that -- kids, family, health, whatever. But lots and lots of folks who could do that don't and then complain the democratic party doesn't do what they want them to do. The party is made up of lots of smaller groups where it's the people who show up who set the tone, direction etc.
posted by R343L at 9:57 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

Susan Hennessey: here is what the government must have shown in order to obtain a FISA warrant on Carter Page as agent of foreign power.

Fun side note, in the tweet after this one, she calls out MeFi favorite Louise Mensch for bragging about getting this story right:

False. You described a warrant which does not exist under the law, called it a FISA, and now take credit for any/all real FISAs.
posted by diogenes at 9:59 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

man, trump totally ruined cake for me. now i won't be able to eat it without thinking about 59 pointless missiles.
posted by localhuman at 9:59 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

On the bright side, we've learned Trump can be easily distracted by cake.
posted by asteria at 10:02 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

On the bright side, we've learned Trump can be easily distracted by cake.

On the other hand, he's willing to launch missiles while distracted, so it doesn't really help.
posted by diogenes at 10:10 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

I think you meant "on the gripping hand" there.
posted by qldaddy at 10:20 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

WaPo: Toddler changes mind again, says health care repeal must happen before tax overhaul.
posted by Dashy at 10:23 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also interesting that Russia and now China knew about the strikes before Congress.
posted by asteria at 10:23 AM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

I think you meant "on the gripping hand" there.

With hands as small as Trump's, who can tell?
posted by Gelatin at 10:25 AM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

On the groping hand.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:26 AM on April 12, 2017 [30 favorites]

My reaction is exactly this: no more quagmires by engaging militarily when we have no idea what victory looks like or who we should be supporting.

The Powell Doctrine was pretty decent:

1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
7. Is the action supported by the American people?
8. Do we have genuine broad international support?

Too bad we didn't apply it to the Iraq War and every military effort since.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:28 AM on April 12, 2017 [49 favorites]

diogenes: The Carter Page revelation is that the warrant was only for the weakest link of the bunch. How is that a warning shot?

Page is a sidler, none of Trump's criminals really knows what dirt he's been in on. He went on national TV a couple times practically offering to go stoolie to the highest bidder. I think the message is that we have a bird in hand and we just might be willing to trade it for two in the bush.
posted by klarck at 10:30 AM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

we also learned that Trump's idea of diplomacy is telling the leader of China, "lol i just totally launched some missiles at Syria" at a state dinner

and that he interprets a look that indicates "what the everloving FUCK, dude" as "everything is okay".

which actually explains a lot
posted by murphy slaw at 10:31 AM on April 12, 2017 [41 favorites]

WaPo: Toddler changes mind again, says health care repeal must happen before tax overhaul.

translation: my tax proposal was so bad that i couldn't even show it to congress, so i might as well stall for time by beating them about the head and neck with their own healthcare bill
posted by murphy slaw at 10:33 AM on April 12, 2017 [16 favorites]

Given the NK nonsense, I think Trump was hoping to intimidate Xi.

Aside from how horrifying that is, I think the reaction by Chinese media shows how well that worked.
posted by asteria at 10:33 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

> WaPo: Toddler changes mind again, says health care repeal must happen before tax overhaul.

Hahaha, check out the look on Mick Mulvaney's face. Working for Trump must be fun!
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:40 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

But Trump offered a big caveat on this idea when he added “I'm not saying that's what I'm doing.”

Seems to me that this caveat applies to every statement of intention that comes out of Trump's mouth.

"I'm just brainstorming here, don't quote me, it's a secret plan, I don't want to give the game away" - which is just cover for him not having a consistent internal model of the world to which his statements could refer.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:48 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

"I'm just brainstorming here, don't quote me, it's a secret plan, I don't want to give the game away" - which is just cover for him not having a consistent internal model of the world to which his statements could refer.

Speaking of, I wonder how that secret plan to destroy ISIS in 30 days is going?
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

His secret plan was to ask "his" generals, who have let him down bigly by not coming through with the magic solution he promised.
posted by contraption at 10:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

His secret plan was to ask "his" generals, who have let him down bigly by not coming through with the magic solution he promised.

At one point he said he had a plan, a great plan, but he was going to ask his generals for their plan and then decide which one he liked best. So apparently neither his plan nor theirs was all that good.
posted by jammer at 10:57 AM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

Maybe both plans are so fantastic that it's taking him a while to decide?
posted by contraption at 10:59 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

On "The 45th" podcast, they dug through a bunch of interviews and put together a very convincing case that his "secret plan to fight ISIS" was actually to re-invade Iraq, and this time, "take the oil."
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:59 AM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Back to the cake nonsense - if that really is when Trump made the decision, doesn't that mean his cosplay of the Bin Laden mission was just that? Staging? They made the decision over dinner, not while he was in a room surrounded by people.
posted by asteria at 11:01 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Boston Globe: Rex Tillerson, in Moscow, is asked by a Russian reporter about Sean Spicer’s comment about Hitler.

We're a fucking laughing stock everywhere.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:01 AM on April 12, 2017 [47 favorites]

Speaking of, I wonder how that secret plan to destroy ISIS in 30 days is going?

Silly us, we thought he meant 30 consecutive days! It turns out that the weekend golf trips are just a cover, he's actually overseeing the gradual destruction of ISIS during two-hour Sunday brunches for the next 7 years.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:06 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

His secret plan was to ask "his" generals, who have let him down bigly by not coming through with the magic solution he promised.

At one point he said he had a plan, a great plan, but he was going to ask his generals for their plan and then decide which one he liked best. So apparently neither his plan nor theirs was all that good.

But he knows more about ISIS than the generals do!?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:10 AM on April 12, 2017

On "The 45th" podcast, they dug through a bunch of interviews and put together a very convincing case that his "secret plan to fight ISIS" was actually to re-invade Iraq, and this time, "take the oil."

Mistaking Iraq for Syria as the target of his bombing made me wonder if he accidentally broke the news that he's been considering military action in Iraq. Like, he's spent so much time planning his Iraq invasion, it was just a habit.
posted by gladly at 11:12 AM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

doesn't that mean his cosplay of the Bin Laden mission was just that? Staging?

Yes, it's a staged shot but it's not supposed to be a shot of Trump making the decision, it's supposed to be of him monitoring the mission as it's carried out.
posted by VTX at 11:20 AM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

BTW -- the thing about "take the oil" starts at about the 41 minute mark in that podcast episode.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:20 AM on April 12, 2017

gladly: "Like, he's spent so much time planning his Iraq invasion, it was just a habit."

I think I spot a flaw in this theory.
posted by mhum at 11:20 AM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump spoke to President Xi Jinping. The White House readout, in its entirety: "It was a very productive call." Very helpful. Please compare and contrast with the statement of the Chinese Government.

And please enjoy Alexandra Petri: Sean Spicer would like to clarify his clarification:

Also, instead of saying the phrase “He brought them into the Holocaust center, I understand that,” I — well, where to begin? I should have seized the podium on my shoulder, strode out of the briefing room, and walked and walked until I came to a place where no one knew what the thing on my shoulder was, and then I should have settled there and started life anew, never sparing a thought for whence I came. Definitely I should not have coined and used the term “Holocaust center.”

Unsurprisingly, Spicer is not doing a briefing today.
posted by zachlipton at 11:21 AM on April 12, 2017 [51 favorites]

Devin Nunes: A Timeline of His White House Visits and Trump Surveillance Claims (Wired, April 12, 2017)

The initial Nunes surveillance claims are plenty problematic on their own, and we’ve discussed them before. (The short version: The kind of “incidental collection” Nunes described has nothing to do with direct surveillance of Trump, his associates, or Trump Tower). It’s becoming increasingly clear, though, that the way Nunes came into this information, and the way he disseminated it, holds more intrigue than his original allegations.

Below, we’ve cobbled together a brief timeline of the Nunes claims from last week, based on publicly available information, various reports, and statements from both Nunes and his colleagues. And while it may not say anything conclusive about Nunes’ relationship with the White House—and whether that tarnishes his leadership role in the Russia investigation—it certainly raises plenty of questions about his objectivity and his ability to lead an independent investigation.

There's nothing new, but it's handy to have these drips and drops of information and reports organized, especially when this is just one of many weird, possibly troubling, things happening right now.

The timeline currently extends through last night (April 11), but there's an end note: We will continue to update this post as the Nunes situation evolves.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:22 AM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

I really feel like there should be a basic test: if you misidentify the country at which you fired the misses and have to be corrected by your interviewer, you should not be allowed to have missiles anymore.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on April 12, 2017 [65 favorites]

Boston Globe: Rex Tillerson, in Moscow, is asked by a Russian reporter about Sean Spicer’s comment about Hitler.

If that reporter is still breathing in a month's time (and of course, I hope so!), we'll know something about how Russia really feels about the Trump Administration.
posted by Gelatin at 11:31 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

I hope that some day in the future I'll be able to partake in humor that isn't of the gallows variety.
posted by diogenes at 11:34 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Washington Post: Trump administration moving quickly to build up nationwide deportation force : An internal Department of Homeland Security assessment obtained by The Washington Post shows the agency has already found 33,000 more detention beds to house undocumented immigrants, opened discussions with dozens of local police forces that could be empowered with enforcement authority and identified where construction of Trump’s border wall could begin.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:36 AM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

I've traded in my gallows humor for guillotine humor.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:36 AM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

Alexandra Petri so national treasure there's a movie about Nic Cage stealing her
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:36 AM on April 12, 2017 [35 favorites]

Okay, I think I'm caught up:

We're firing missiles at random countries over dessert because of images of dead babies on Fox News. (Iraq? Syria? Who cares, the cake was really great, the best, let me tell you.)

The Press Sec has claimed that chemical weapons attacks are worse than the Holocaust - either that, or flirting with outright denialism. And has had to issue four revised statements so far.

The newspapers are leading with "Incoherent foreign policy makes heads spin." Meanwhile, Rex-T has woken up from his nap for long enough to meet with Putin, and they're getting questions - in Russia! - about the Press Sec Holocaust denialism.

Meanwhile, domestic policy is also just as incoherent - cabinet members are finding out in live interviews that they are actually working on healthcare repeal first, not "tax cuts (reform)".

The DoJ is no longer going to enforce agreements by police forces to show various levels of restraint. The EPA is no longer going to enforce regulations that would phase out some of the dirtier coal-burning power plants. The Department of Education is no longer going to enforce protections against predatory student lenders. Expert recommendations to ban specific pesticides are being shelved. The Dakota pipeline is a go. The Border Patrol is off the leash. CBP is off the leash. Russian spies are everywhere. It isn't clear whose side the FBI is on. Eric Trump is bragging that Ivanka Trump made her daddy bomb Syria.

On the positive side of the ledger - hmmm. No one has set off a nuke yet - that's a win so far, I guess?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:41 AM on April 12, 2017 [51 favorites]

Foreign Press in North Korea Told to Prepare for ‘Big Event’: Officials gave no details as to the nature of the event or where it would take place, and similar announcements in the past have been linked to relatively low-key set pieces.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:46 AM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

I was sitting at the table. We had finished dinner. We're now having dessert. And we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen

Is this the way a President of the United States talks? It sounds more like a Dick and Jane first grade reader.

"See Spot run. Run, Spot, run."
posted by JackFlash at 11:50 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Well, phew: Ben Carson unhurt when he gets stuck in an elevator at a housing project.
posted by adamg at 11:50 AM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ugh. A good friend of mine just pointed this out to me:

Black History Month
-Frederick Douglass is alive

Sexual Assault Awareness Month
-O'Reilly did nothing wrong

Passover
-Hitler didn't gas anyone

Given this, I don't even care to think about what's fucking next with these fucking clowns.
posted by lord_wolf at 11:51 AM on April 12, 2017 [70 favorites]

Are the irritants in the Trump-Russia relationships things like journalism, democracy, whatever functioning remains of US counterintelligence there are etc? Some really quite frightening language there.
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on April 12, 2017

(Substitute US-Russian for Trump-Russian relationships to the degree you feel appropriate)
posted by Artw at 11:52 AM on April 12, 2017

The coke was enough to win him the election.
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on April 12, 2017

Given this, I don't even care to think about what's fucking next with these fucking clowns.

Well, the first full week of May is National Teacher Appreciation Week, so
[ominous silence]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 11:55 AM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

Given this, I don't even care to think about what's fucking next with these fucking clowns.

May is Asian Pacific Heritage Month and June is Pride month. They should have plenty of time to come up with something appropriate(ly heinous).
posted by Sophie1 at 11:58 AM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Good Friday: "Judas got 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus. That makes him smart!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:59 AM on April 12, 2017 [61 favorites]

Christmas: I like the saviors who didn't get crucified!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:00 PM on April 12, 2017 [50 favorites]

Well, phew: Ben Carson unhurt when he gets stuck in an elevator at a housing project.

Thankfully, the elevator doors only closed on Carson's head, so he walked away completely unhurt.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

JackFlash Is this the way a President of the United States talks? It sounds more like a Dick and Jane first grade reader.

Not to keep harping on it, but that's basically what happened to my great aunt as the Alzheimer's progressed. As the disease ate more of her brain her ability to process language faded. A woman who had once been an English teacher, a woman with an immense vocabulary, was slowly reduced to incoherent, repetitive sentences with sharply limited vocabulary.

Trump was always a bit dim and never showed any sign of either intellectual curiosity or education. But his inability to form a coherent sentence, his radically limited vocabulary, is relatively new. He is suffering from some form of age related brain degeneration, it might be Alzheimer's (it does run in his family, as it does in mine), it might be something else.

But he is mentally ill. This just stupidity combined with lack of verbal ability as we saw with Junior, this is a man's brain failing him as he has aged. Look back at Trump speaking unscripted in the 1990's and the man is an egotistical ass and clearly not very bright, but he is understandable. He doesn't ramble. His sentences make sense. And his vocabulary is bigger then than it is today.

Yes, this is the way the President of the United States talks, because he is senile. And it will get worse as time passes.
posted by sotonohito at 12:02 PM on April 12, 2017 [71 favorites]

And we made a determination to do it, so the missiles were on the way. And I said, Mr. President, let me explain something to you. This was during dessert.

We've just fired 59 missiles, all of which hit, by the way, unbelievable, from, you know, hundreds of miles away, all of which hit, amazing. So what happens is I said we've just launched 59 missiles heading to Iraq and I wanted you to know this. And he was eating his cake. And he was silent.

Operation Dessert Storm
posted by Daily Alice at 12:04 PM on April 12, 2017 [88 favorites]

We're firing missiles at random countries over dessert because of images of dead babies on Fox News. (Iraq? Syria? Who cares, the cake was really great, the best, let me tell you.)

Because his daughter, who has an office in the White House for no discernible reason, got upset over the images. Being a narcissist he doesn't feel that kind of emotion so he has to rely on others to let him know what they feel.
posted by scalefree at 12:05 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

RedOrGreen: The EPA is no longer going to enforce regulations that would phase out some of the dirtier coal-burning power plants.

Good news from New Mexico (at least in terms of coal fired power plant emissions): the Four Corners Power Plant, blamed for haze from the Grand Canyon to the Rocky Mountains, as well as higher asthma rates and premature death in surrounding communities, government studies show, is under consideration to be completely closed by as soon as 2022. Facing tougher emission requirements pre-Trump, they were already shutting down two of the older generators, and the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona is also scheduling a shut-down between 2019 and July of this year. The key cause is not regulations but the rise of natural gas as a widely available, cleaner energy source. On the down side: this means a loss of hundreds of jobs in the region.

Also, the EPA is still regulating pesticide management and issuing fines and correction plans (EPA press release re-hosted by Ag-Net West, April 12, 2017), so they're not dormant by any means.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:07 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

We've just fired 59 missiles, all of which hit, by the way, unbelievable, from, you know, hundreds of miles away, all of which hit, amazing.

One part of this which staggers me (sure, the whole thing is insane, but this really jumps out at me) is that he thinks the fact that long-range missiles hit their target is particularly extraordinary. I mean, yes, in the grand scheme of human technology missile guidance is pretty cool, but it isn't like it's new or anything. These days, we kind of expect missiles to land more-or-less where we aim them.

Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist!
posted by jackbishop at 12:10 PM on April 12, 2017 [26 favorites]

One part of this which staggers me (sure, the whole thing is insane, but this really jumps out at me) is that he thinks the fact that long-range missiles hit their target is particularly extraordinary.

TBF he is used to Trump quality standards.
posted by mazola at 12:11 PM on April 12, 2017 [21 favorites]

One part of this which staggers me (sure, the whole thing is insane, but this really jumps out at me) is that he thinks the fact that long-range missiles hit their target is particularly extraordinary. I mean, yes, in the grand scheme of human technology missile guidance is pretty cool, but it isn't like it's new or anything. These days, we kind of expect missiles to land more-or-less where we aim them.

I wonder if Trump thinks that China is still at a rickshaws-and-bicycles level of technology, or at least such that they would be impressed by this.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:12 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

even if they missed, there's no point crying over every mistake. we just keep on trying 'til we run out of cake!
posted by murphy slaw at 12:12 PM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

Lobbyists tied to ex-Trump aides register as foreign agents

A Washington lobbying firm that worked on a covert influence campaign in the U.S. under the direction of two former top campaign advisers to President Donald Trump has registered after the fact with the Justice Department as a foreign agent. It acknowledged its work could have principally benefited Ukraine's government, led at the time by a pro-Russian political party.

The Podesta Group Inc. disclosed details of lobbying it did from 2012 through 2014 on behalf of a Brussels-based nonprofit, the European Center for a Modern Ukraine. The firm, run by the brother of Hillary Clinton presidential campaign chairman John Podesta, reported in its filing that it was paid more than $1.2 million for its efforts. It cited unspecified "information brought to light in recent months" and conversations with Justice Department employees as the reason for its decision.

The disclosure follows reporting by The Associated Press in August, citing emails obtained by the AP, that the firm of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his deputy Rick Gates, who served in a senior role in the Trump campaign, had overseen the lobbying effort, which sought to promote a Ukrainian political party's interests in Washington. President Donald Trump pressured Manafort to resign as his presidential campaign chairman immediately after AP's reporting.
posted by futz at 12:15 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

We've just fired 59 missiles, all of which hit, by the way, unbelievable, from, you know, hundreds of miles away, all of which hit, amazing.

cjelli: One part of this which staggers me (sure, the whole thing is insane, but this really jumps out at me) is that he thinks the fact that long-range missiles hit their target is particularly extraordinary.

I know - it's like he's amazed at German WWII V2 rocket-type technology. Seriously, for being Nazi-affiliated, he's not too sharp on his German war history.

Of course, I could just revise that last sentence to read "Seriously, he's not too sharp" and get to the same point.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:16 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

We can only hope that Trump has even the tiniest fraction of Cave Johnson's humility.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:16 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

As of Wednesday, the Justice Department's database did not list Manafort, Gates or Mercury as registered foreign agents for the same work. Calls and emails to representatives for Mercury were not immediately returned. A spokesman for Manafort, Jason Maloni, said he would consult with his client about the filing. Gates did not respond to text messages left by the AP on Wednesday afternoon. His voicemail box was full.

Now the AP is reporting: The Latest: Manafort registering with US as foreign agent

Paul Manafort's spokesman says he was in talks with the government about registering before the 2016 election and is now "taking appropriate steps" in response to "formal guidance" from the government.

The spokesman says Manafort's lobbying work was not conducted on behalf of the Russian government and began before Manafort started working with the Trump campaign.
posted by futz at 12:21 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

Tomahawk missiles seem to be accurate to 2-5 meters. There's apparently oft-quoted metric of "flying through a window" which seems to overstate things only slightly.
posted by achrise at 12:25 PM on April 12, 2017

Trump promised to call China a currency manipulator on day one. Now: Trump Says Dollar ‘Getting Too Strong,’ Won’t Label China a Currency Manipulator:

“I think our dollar is getting too strong, and partially that’s my fault because people have confidence in me. But that’s hurting—that will hurt ultimately,” he added. “Look, there’s some very good things about a strong dollar, but usually speaking the best thing about it is that it sounds good.”
...
Mr. Trump said the reason he has changed his mind on one of his signature campaign promises is that China hasn’t been manipulating its currency for months and because taking the step now could jeopardize his talks with Beijing on confronting the threat of North Korea.

“They’re not currency manipulators,” Mr. Trump said.

He also reversed himself on his views on Janet Yellen and the Export-Import Bank, which he's suddenly concluded is a good thing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

[North Carolina] Bill would force schools to leave leagues that boycott state

A House bill filed this week and sponsored by four Republicans would require schools in the University of North Carolina system to begin the withdrawal process from their conferences if the organizations enact a future boycott.

The bill also would require schools to place the revenue they receive from their conferences into escrow to pay any exit fees.

posted by Room 641-A at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

Joy Reid on Twitter:

Source: Carter Page isn't the only Trump campaign ally who was the subject of a FISA warrant. A second target was recorded also. Tick tock..
posted by Sophie1 at 12:37 PM on April 12, 2017 [32 favorites]

[North Carolina] Bill would force schools to leave leagues that boycott state

No, no. Dig up, stupid!
posted by Talez at 12:39 PM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

"I think our dollar is getting too strong, and partially that’s my fault because people have confidence in me."

My biggest weakness is that I work too hard and am too impressive! Our dollar is too strong because I'm too masculine and powerful, I need to tone it down so that the dollar doesn't decide to armwrestle the assorted currencies of the world into submission!
posted by Existential Dread at 12:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [20 favorites]

North Carolina Bill Banning Same-Sex Marriage Again Won't Be Heard, House Speaker Tim Moore Says

A day after North Carolina lawmakers introduced legislation that would outlaw same-sex marriage and defy a landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling, a top Republican there said Wednesday that the bill is dead on arrival.
posted by futz at 12:43 PM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

Given this, I don't even care to think about what's fucking next with these fucking clowns.

Tomorrow is Thomas Jefferson's birthday. There's probably a Hamilton joke in here somewhere.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:43 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Tomorrow is Thomas Jefferson's birthday. There's probably a Hamilton joke in here somewhere.

"Something something slaves were treated well something something"
posted by Talez at 12:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

îs it a misread of the situation that to think that wall street is chugging along as if there has been no change in leadership because they assume trump will not be able to achieve anything legislatively so the facts on the ground won't change for them?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Room 641-A: [North Carolina] Bill would force schools to leave leagues that boycott state

Let's think this through for a moment: the schools withdraw from national leagues, which means the schools don't compete on a national level in the same way. This is a draw for students to attend and participate in those sports, and for alumni and others to donate to the school, which is seen as a net benefit to the school.

On the other side, we have this: In the past five years, public universities pumped more than $10.3 billion in mandatory student fees and other subsidies into their sports programs, according to an examination by The Chronicle of Higher Education and The Huffington Post, as reported in the Chronicle of Higher Education on November 15, 2015.
Let's look for a mention of North Carolina - oh, there's this:

University of North Carolina at Greensboro, member of Southern Conference, provided 81.0% of revenue from subsidies, subsidizing $11,860,371 of the $14,646,547 Athletics revenue.

Similarly, North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, a member of the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, provided 73.8% of revenue from subsidies, subsidizing $8,398,737 of the $11,383,506 Athletics revenue.

There's a handful of other NC universities with similarly high subsidies for athletics. Millions of dollars of mandatory student fees to sports programs.

Oh no, don't leave those leagues. Please, no. Don't abandon the NCAA like this. Oh, please, no.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump is getting his wish. He told the WSJ the dollar is "getting too strong," and, well, it's not quite as strong now.
posted by zachlipton at 12:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Frankly, if UNC did withdraw from NCAA basketball it might actually benefit their students.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:56 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Streaming: Press Conference with Trump and NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg
posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on April 12, 2017

Sophie1 -- I don't see a tweet about additional FISA warrants on Joy Reid's Twitter? Did it get deleted?
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:02 PM on April 12, 2017

Sophie1: Joy Reid on Twitter: Source: Carter Page isn't the only Trump campaign ally who was the subject of a FISA warrant. A second target was recorded also. Tick tock..

As noted by Washington Post reporter Adam Entous this morning on NPR, in talking about Page's FISA court warrant:

this is not the kind of thing, by the way, that Page would know about. It's not something that the - obviously that he would be informed of. His lawyers wouldn't be informed of this. The whole point of having this is to be able to monitor somebody without it being detected.

So the reason that these are being leaked is that 1) the people are no longer doing what they were under observation for in the first place, or 2) their names are as good as cleared. It's like police tailing someone while driving a cop car with the lights flashing: at that point, you know you're being followed by the police, so you won't do anything stupid (generally speaking).

Possibly related, also from NPR: Trump Signals Steve Bannon Could Be On His Way Out

The president sounds fed up with the infighting, and he appears to be picking sides — predictably with his family. In an interview with the New York Post's Michael Goodwin, Trump seems to push away Bannon.

"I like Steve, but you have to remember, he was not involved in my campaign until very late," Trump said. "I had already beaten all the senators and all the governors, and I didn't know Steve. I'm my own strategist, and it wasn't like I was going to change strategies because I was facing crooked Hillary."

That is brutal. Bannon, the former head of the right-wing website Breitbart with a very particular world view, was brought on in August of 2016 and named the campaign's "CEO."

The NY Post article had a paragraph that framed the quote pulled by NPR above:

When I asked the president Tuesday afternoon if he still has confidence in Bannon, who took over the campaign in mid-August, I did not get a definitive yes.

And it includes a final quote from Trump:

He ended by saying, “Steve is a good guy, but I told them to straighten it out or I will.”

Really, that's the entire NY Post article, but NPR provided a bit more context about where Bannon came into the Trump party.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:04 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

OnceUponATime: Sophie1 -- I don't see a tweet about additional FISA warrants on Joy Reid's Twitter? Did it get deleted?

It was here, via this Palm Report article speculating on the tweet, but I can't visit Twitter at the moment to confirm.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Link to Twitter
posted by Sophie1 at 1:06 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

"I said it [NATO] was obsolete. It's no longer obsolete." He's claiming NATO now fights terrorism because of him (not true).

It's just flip-flop day, isn't it?
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

It's just flip-flop day, isn't it?

If people already think you're a dumb fuck may as well get a flip-flop for free.
posted by Talez at 1:11 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Facebook live link to what I think zachlipton is watching? (Trump doing a joint press conference with the NATO secretary
general.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:13 PM on April 12, 2017

Source: Carter Page isn't the only Trump campaign ally who was the subject of a FISA warrant. A second target was recorded also.

Woohoo!
posted by diogenes at 1:13 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

"I said it [NATO] was obsolete. It's no longer obsolete." He's claiming NATO now fights terrorism because of him (not true).

If it means he won't undermine NATO, I say we let him think he personally fixed it.
posted by diogenes at 1:14 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's not really even fair to call them flip-flops, because he has absolutely no interest in consistency. I normally reject the "flip-flop" framing, because someone changing their mind after further study and analysis shouldn't be a bad thing. But changing ones mind implies that you have a position to begin with. Trump doesn't. He simply says whatever he believes his audience at the moment wants to hear, and nobody cares if he says something different to another group an hour later. And so they're not real flip-flops, because tomorrow he could well turn around and start ranting about how awful NATO is again.
posted by zachlipton at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2017 [40 favorites]

Trump calls on a real reporter (Jeff Mason, Reuters), but the press has apparently not learned the lesson that you have to ask him simple short questions, not complex multi-part ones.
posted by zachlipton at 1:19 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Asked if he decided not to label China a currency manipulator because they were going to help with North Korea, Trump says they will help if they want a better trade deal, or else "We will go it alone. And go it alone means with lots of other nations."
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:21 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's not really even fair to call them flip-flops, because he has absolutely no interest in consistency.

Yeah, the fact that his word salad varies day to day isn't really indicative of an evolving thought process. It just means that his handful of words came out in a different order. Or he heard something on Fox and Friends that morning.
posted by diogenes at 1:23 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

He simply says whatever he believes his audience at the moment wants to hear, and nobody cares if he says something different to another group an hour later. And so they're not real flip-flops, because tomorrow he could well turn around and start ranting about how awful NATO is again.

This. Plus his base follows him no matter his position. Witness Republicans being overwhelmingly opposed to striking Syria under Obama and as soon as Trump lobs some Tomahawks they're all crying out for the Euphrates to flow with blood.
posted by Talez at 1:24 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Go it alone means with lots of other nations" is [real].
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:26 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

Asked if he decided not to label China a currency manipulator because they were going to help with North Korea, Trump says they will help if they want a better trade deal, or else "We will go it alone. And go it alone means with lots of other nations."

China seems to be in the NK situation only because it doesn't want to have to deal with the fallout of having to detain, or worse, slaughter, the mass of North Koreans who will be trying to cross the border. Turns out they don't like marauding hordes. Who knew?
posted by Talez at 1:27 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Aren't the alt-right weirdos still pissed about the strikes?
posted by Artw at 1:27 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

(Because of their strong anti-war stance and not because so much Nazi funding comes from Russia, obvs.)
posted by Artw at 1:28 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

A House bill filed this week and sponsored by four Republicans would require schools in the University of North Carolina system to begin the withdrawal process from their conferences if the organizations enact a future boycott.

So the Tar Heels will never play in an NCAA tournament again?

Good luck with that.
posted by Gelatin at 1:30 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

Aren't the alt-right weirdos still pissed about the strikes?

Some are but they're suppressed by t_d mods. They go over to /r/marchagainsttrump with their "fuck this I'm out" posts.

It was funny* because once Trump sent the attack the pedes were all "WOO WE'RE GOING INTO SYRIA BOYS" and then as soon as Trump said they weren't going into Syria out came the "let them fight their own damn war".

* It has to be funny because JFC this is literally US foreign policy on the god damned run. Fuck this shit.
posted by Talez at 1:32 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

It was only 10 days ago that Trump called China the "world champion" of currency manipulators.

At least he seems to have learned that NATO members don't literally pay us dues like they've been stiffing us on the cable bill.
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

So the Tar Heels will never play in an NCAA tournament again?

March Madness is over. So the state can get back to bigotry until the next toxic showdown forces them to partially cave, again.

I'm setting up my own brackets for NC politics, and I predict Bigotry will go all the way to the final four, finally to be edged out in the playoffs by Tepid Walkback.
posted by darkstar at 1:35 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

At least he seems to have learned that NATO members don't literally pay us dues

Future presidential debates should include a basic knowledge segment. Ask a question like "How does NATO work?" and give each candidate five minutes to explain it. I would have loved watching that between Trump and Hillary. Or Trump and anybody really.
posted by diogenes at 1:43 PM on April 12, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'd start with "what does the abbreviation NATO stand for?" along with "what is an abbreviation?"
posted by zachlipton at 1:47 PM on April 12, 2017 [18 favorites]

diogenes: Future presidential debates should include a basic knowledge segment.

Future presidential debates should have a basic knowledge paper quiz, live on air, with the scantron fed into the machine to be graded immediately. And then they do the debate with their scores on their podiums.
posted by bluecore at 1:50 PM on April 12, 2017 [28 favorites]

Future presidential debates should include a basic knowledge segment. Ask a question like "How does NATO work?" and give each candidate five minutes to explain it. I would have loved watching that between Trump and Hillary. Or Trump and anybody really.

It was completely obvious that Trump had no clue what he was talking about. The electorate that supported him didn't give a flying fuck. It was a feature not a bug.
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [18 favorites]

At the very least they should be made to take the same civics test that naturalized immigrants are required to take. There's a study guide and everything, but Donnie might have some issues answering the updated questions.

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/learners/study-test/study-materials-civics-test
posted by nathan_teske at 1:53 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

"I like Steve, but you have to remember, he was not involved in my campaign until very late," Trump said.

Ahahahahahahahha, pack your bags, pally.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:53 PM on April 12, 2017 [20 favorites]

like there wouldn't be a sizeable contingent of people who'd vote for whoever fails the test the hardest, because fuck those eggheads who think they're better than us with their basic knowledge of civics
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:53 PM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

diogenes: "Future presidential debates should include a basic knowledge segment."

Predicted moderators for 2020 Presidential Debates: Anderson Cooper, Brit Hume, Greta Van Susteren, Jeff Foxworthy.
posted by mhum at 1:54 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

AP: President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

I guess Tillerson didn't have a great report.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

All time low? ALL TIME LOW?

Are these people idiots? Do they remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Don't answer that.
posted by Justinian at 1:58 PM on April 12, 2017 [36 favorites]

President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

It's sort of endearing that Trump doesn't seem to grasp that a base assumption in any diplomatic environment is that your opposite number CAN READ THE FUCKING NEWSPAPERS.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:58 PM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

It's not really even fair to call them flip-flops, because he has absolutely no interest in consistency.

Schroedinger's Politician.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:59 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

like there wouldn't be a sizeable contingent of people who'd vote for whoever fails the test the hardest, because fuck those eggheads who think they're better than us with their basic knowledge of civics

That's basically what happened though, isn't it?
posted by some loser at 2:00 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

All time low? ALL TIME LOW?

Are these people idiots? Do they remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Don't answer that.

After Springtime for Spicey and Trump's veiled threat to shitcan Comey this week, I think we can rest assured they don't have an entry-level familiarity with World War II, Watergate, or history in general, really.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

AP: President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

no puppet no puppet you're the puppet
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [29 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: AP: President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

NPR reported that Tillersom said something quite similar: "There is a low level of trust between our two countries," Tillerson said after the meeting. "The world's two foremost nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship."

Also:

Tillerson and Lavrov made it clear there were still profound disagreements over recent events in Syria, the future of Syrian president and Russian ally Bashar Assad, and allegations of Russian meddling in the U.S. election, among other issues.

So, not a puppet?


All time low? ALL TIME LOW?

Are these people idiots? Do they remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Well, history only started when Trump took office, and

President Vladimir Putin said in an interview published today that U.S.-Russia relations are even worse than when President Trump took office.

(From NPR) -- so this is definitely an all-time low.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:02 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

WSJ drops this bombshell in an otherwise unrelated article about Trump trying to sabotage the ACA by witholding payments to insurers:

Mr. Trump said recent reports of infighting among his senior staff—particularly chief strategist Steve Bannon and son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner—were “overblown.” But he referred to Mr. Bannon as “a guy who works for me” and noted that he, Mr. Trump, was his own “strategist.”

We are at Defcon "i don't know her". Bannon is toast.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:03 PM on April 12, 2017 [38 favorites]

It's sort of endearing that Trump doesn't seem to grasp that a base assumption in any diplomatic environment is that your opposite number CAN READ THE FUCKING NEWSPAPERS.

it really fucking drives home that he is not used to playing at this level. backroom maneuverings in manhattan real estate commercial deals are not front page news. positioning bluffs in licensing negotiations are not front page news. a businessman getting deposed for the fifteenth shitty-ass fraud case this year alone is not front page news.

WHEN THE PLAYERS HAVE NUKES AND DECADES OF THIS MINOR THING CALLED THE "COLD WAR", WELL, MAYBE THINGS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT?????
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:04 PM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

Just wait, when Trump starts a shooting war with Russia all the Trumpites will blame us on the left for being too anti-Russia and pushing Trump that way, or souring relations between our nations, or something like that.

Somehow they'll conclude it was our fault.
posted by sotonohito at 2:04 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Bannon is toast.

As we contemplate our individual flavor preferences for the next Go to Hell cake, let's all sing!
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:07 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Eventually it will be just Trump, Ivanka and Jared.
posted by emjaybee at 2:08 PM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Eventually it will be just Trump, Ivanka and Jared.

In the Oval Office, with the lights off and FoxNews on, eating steak with ketchup at a card table.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:11 PM on April 12, 2017 [34 favorites]

The rest of that WSJ article is crazy important too. Trump Threatens to Withhold Payments to Insurers to Press Democrats on Health Bill

He's outright saying he will sabotage the insurance market as a negotiating strategy. Insurance companies are reading. They'd be absolutely nuts to offer exchange plans next year when a maniac is holding their money hostage.
posted by zachlipton at 2:11 PM on April 12, 2017 [45 favorites]

We are at Defcon "i don't know her". Bannon is toast.

All that's left is for Trump to order him the meatloaf.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:12 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

On the bright side, Trump apparently has at least a really basic understanding of a healthcare policy issue, which is a significant improvement over anything he's said thus far.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on April 12, 2017

CNN went with this subtle, understated headline: "Donald Trump Sounds Sick of Steve Bannon" [real] and refers to Trump's comments as "stunningly lukewarm."
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:17 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

Poor Steve Bannon. Well, he'll always have his meth lab to go back to.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:23 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Eventually it will be just Trump, Ivanka and Jared.

In the Oval Office, with the lights off and FoxNews on, eating steak with ketchup at a card table.

Worst game of Clue ever.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:24 PM on April 12, 2017 [55 favorites]

I mean, regarding the "relations at an all time low", I guess you could argue that if you strictly limit the word "Russia" to mean "Russia as an independent nation-state" rather than as the dominant state of the former USSR which was (and still is) frequently used as a synecdoche for the whole thing... if you're feeling really generous and wish to interpret this that way, he's at least not totally outside the realm of arguable reality.

But come on. Cuban Missile Crisis, motherfucker.
posted by jammer at 2:24 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

In Trump's world, there are no numbers between 0 and 100.
posted by rocket88 at 2:29 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

The transcripts of this Jake Tapper interview with Actual Man Who Knew Too Little Carter Page are pretty amazing.

choice nug: "I have nothing to say about any ongoing investigations that may or may not be going on."
posted by murphy slaw at 2:34 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

Charlie Pierce: The Murderers' Row of Voter Suppression Is Here

Once again, we are reminded that we have to keep an eye on Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, the Attorney General of the United States, because he's wired into just about every tinhorn authoritarian operation of the American right. Wednesday's episode involves the assault on voting rights, and the spurious "voter fraud" rationale for disenfranchising the non-white and inconvenient portions of the electorate.

This project was a particular obsession of the last Republican administration and, last month, sensing that the time was ripe for a comeback, many of the superstars in the previous disenfranchisement hootenanny wrote a letter to JeffBo. All of the usual greatest hits were in heavy rotation.
[...]
The jamokes who signed the letter are a murderers' row of vote suppressors—including the daddy of them all, Kris Kobach, as well as J. Christian Adams and Hans von Spakovsky, who were central to the Bush DOJ's voter-suppression efforts that led, ultimately, to the firing of U.S. Attorneys who declined to share the fantasies of their superiors.

This did not escape the notice of civil rights organizations, who sent their own letter trying to warn JeffBo against lining up with the old gang. I wish them all the luck in the world, because they're going to need it. This is the Day of Jubilee and they're not invited.

posted by zombieflanders at 2:34 PM on April 12, 2017 [21 favorites]

President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

Trump mistook Putin's primary goal of knocking out Clinton as meaning Putin was his ally. Turns out the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

The conman got conned. Dimwitted idiot.
posted by JackFlash at 2:35 PM on April 12, 2017 [49 favorites]

Well, in less than 100 days, Trump has turned a relationship he already said was terrible now to be even worse. So worse, in fact, that it's the worst it's ever been.

How does he explain this given his assurance that he was going to be the President to make sure we had a great relationship wi= oh never mind.
posted by darkstar at 2:38 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

Eventually it will be just Trump, Ivanka and Jared.

In the Oval Office, with the lights off and FoxNews on, eating steak with ketchup at a card table.

Worst casting of No Exit ever.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

The butcher’s bill keeps growing: Donald Trump abuses his voters — and yet they love him, Chauncey Devega, Salon

The white rural and Rust Belt communities that elected Donald Trump are in disarray: they are suffering from high levels of social disorganization caused by drug addiction, declining life spans and an increase in suicide, a breakdown in family structure and high levels of economic anxiety. Ultimately, many of Trump’s “white working class” voters are facing a crisis of meaning and value in their own lives. He offered them an elixir. It has instead been proved so far to be a poison.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:42 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

well yknow if the ding dang FBI would stop scaring off Donald's Russian agent handlers, we wouldn't be having these problems with them
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:42 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

It's also how Salesman Donald Trump works, he's setting expectations low so any tiny diplomatic progress can be heralded as a "tremendous" victory.
posted by peeedro at 2:42 PM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

The conman got conned. Dimwitted idiot.

W was a dimwitted idiot. As a friend called him, a "post turtle".

Sure Trump might not have ever been smart, but the real root cause of the issue is the hereditary Alzheimer's he's suffering from.
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

The butcher’s bill keeps growing: Donald Trump abuses his voters — and yet they love him, Chauncey Deegan, Salon

what is wrong with these people, are they high?

The white rural and Rust Belt communities that elected Donald Trump are in disarray: they are suffering from high levels of social disorganization caused by drug addiction…

oh
posted by murphy slaw at 2:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

zachlipton: Trump Threatens to Withhold Payments to Insurers to Press Democrats on Health Bill

In an interview in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump said the executive branch may lack legal authority to make the payments established under his predecessor to reduce copayments and deductibles for some of the poorest customers who buy insurance under the 2010 Affordable Care Act. Cutting off the payments could trigger turmoil in insurance markets.

“I don’t want people to get hurt,” Mr. Trump said. “What I think should happen—and will happen—is the Democrats will start calling me and negotiating.”

Looking back, he's been pushing against ACA since day one of his presidency (EO, Jan. 20, 2017), instructing federal agencies to work to “minimize the unwarranted economic and regulatory burdens” of the Affordable Care Act (Global Policy Watch article with excerpts from the EO), and mirroring some of the language from critics of Obama's modifications to ACA (New York Post), but the threatening to hurt people if Democrats don't work with him is new.

Then there's the weird WSJ bits:

“You know, there’s a point at which I’m getting off the plane—seriously,” said Mr. Trump, a billionaire. “They should have gone up higher. But to just randomly say, ‘You’re getting off the plane,’ that was terrible.”

Are they implying that he would have a different threshold than other people, or that he flies on private jets, so he's out of touch, or are they trying to compliment him?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

The conman got conned. Dimwitted idiot.

Or just consistent with his business practices of screwing over your business partners. Putin is just another contractor who has to settle for pennies on the dollar.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:47 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Poor Steve Bannon. Well, he'll always have his meth lab to go back to.

I've been to the_Donald a few times, but I don't have the stomach for it. Would Bannon's ouster, if it actually happened, erode support for the God-Emporer?
posted by gladly at 2:48 PM on April 12, 2017

I thought we had given up on "what are Trump voters thinking NOW?" articles. I mean The Media will keep going after every shiny thing long after the rust grows heavy, but MetaFilter should be better than that.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

The butcher’s bill keeps growing: Donald Trump abuses his voters — and yet they love him, Chauncey Deegan, Salon

Someone upthread - maybe onceuponatime? - posted essentially that when people in dying towns have problems, and no one seems to be offering solutions, they go for the snake oil salesman if only because he's acknowledging there is a problem.

I think it'd be nice if we could give people something to choose from that wasn't a snake oil salesman and an empty sack, but I don't know that I have a lot of hope of it anymore.

Donald Trump eating cake and getting the name of the country he's bombing wrong has just about broken me today. My mind keeps coming back to it in horror and I can't move on. This is the devil's bargain nearly half of America made and we are all choking on it.
posted by corb at 2:57 PM on April 12, 2017 [20 favorites]

and no one seems to be offering solutions,


Solutions were - are - on offer. But we have to recognize them as such.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:00 PM on April 12, 2017 [18 favorites]

Clinton had a mountain of policy papers with solutions, they didn't want to hear them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [42 favorites]

The solutions being offered had nasty lady germs on them, and so those suffering Trump voters said "ew!" and now they're going to get to express their true values by dying early. Too bad they want to take the rest of us with them.
posted by emjaybee at 3:04 PM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

this was counted against her, as it showed that she expected to win, like she was entitled to the job, ugh, etc
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:05 PM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

WSJ: Mr. Trump said he told his Chinese counterpart he believed Beijing could easily take care of the North Korea threat. Mr. Xi then explained the history of China and Korea, Mr. Trump said.

“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:08 PM on April 12, 2017 [34 favorites]

"In an interview in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump said..."

Is this yet another interview Trump has given to a major news outlet? A couple weeks back he awarded interviews to both the Financial Times and the NY Times in the same week. After the interviews and the golf, there's hardly much time left for Presidentin'.
posted by notyou at 3:08 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”

This is fucking embarrassing. I wouldn't object to Republicans whining about apology tours so much if they didn't keep electing fuckers we have to apologize for.
posted by Talez at 3:09 PM on April 12, 2017 [58 favorites]

Solutions were - are - on offer. But we have to recognize them as such.

I'm not talking about things like healthcare, or education, or general economic prosperity. Those are all good things, and proposed solutions were definitely on offer, both from Clinton and others.

I mean more like: what's to be done about the fact that the structure of our country - particularly the small, remote towns - is currently built around premises (such as cheap gas, agricultural jobs, a local-only economy etc) that no longer exist? Many, many factors - beyond anyone's control, even - mean there are fewer jobs in those small towns, that there will always, no matter who is in power, be fewer jobs in those small towns, without enormous intervention. What honest answer is there, other than, "Roll up the streets and close up shop, this town is going to die"?
posted by corb at 3:09 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

What are you expecting him to do with his time? Learn about "the history of China and Korea"? That is for the losers and also for the haters
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:10 PM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated."
"Nobody knew that Syria could be so complicated."
"Nobody knew that North Korea could be so complicated."
"Nobody knew that building a wall and making Mexico pay for it could be so complicated."
"Nobody knew that banning a major religion could be so complicated."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:11 PM on April 12, 2017 [76 favorites]

Rural Communities

Spur investment. Hillary will create a national infrastructure bank to improve rural transportation and broadband access and grow the rural economy by expanding access to capital. She’ll also expand the New Markets Tax Credit that will encourage investments to prevent communities from spiraling downward after a major economic shift or plant closing.

Support family farms. Hillary will increase funding to support the next generation of farmers and ranchers in local food markets and regional food systems. And she’ll create a focused safety net to help family farms get through challenging times.

Promote clean energy. Hillary will encourage our nation’s commitment to clean energy by assisting farms that conserve and improve natural resources. She’ll also strengthen the Renewable Fuel Standard and double loans that help support the bio-based economy.

Expand opportunity. Hillary will increase funding for Early Head Start, universal pre-K, free community college, and support for telemedicine and Medicaid expansion.

posted by notyou at 3:13 PM on April 12, 2017 [75 favorites]

what the trump presidency is teaching me is that real estate development and brand management are way less complicated than i thought and that i would probably be the smartest guy in the room if i were to get in on that action
posted by murphy slaw at 3:17 PM on April 12, 2017 [71 favorites]

"Nobody knew that the conflict in Israel could be so complicated."

He seems to think that these multi-decade and multi-century problems have remained unresolved because nobody has tried to fix them.
posted by diogenes at 3:17 PM on April 12, 2017 [23 favorites]

They'd hate us still anyway, you know.
posted by Artw at 3:17 PM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

i would probably be the smartest guy in the room if i were to get in on that action

Yes, but would you have the necessary taste for masculine toxicity?
posted by Coventry at 3:18 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

He seems to think that these multi-decade and multi-century problems have remained unresolved because nobody has tried to fix them.

Our leaders were so stupid! There are so many problems. We're going to fix so many problems, believe me.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:20 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

Carter Page is just so damn strange. It's going to be surreal if he ever publicly testifies.
posted by diogenes at 3:26 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yes, but would you have the necessary taste for masculine toxicity?

the other thing that immediately occurs to me that in donald trump's chosen fields, intelligence may well be a goddamn liability
posted by murphy slaw at 3:26 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Page told CNN he had never shaken Trump's hand and that by saying he had met with Trump, he had meant meetings in the "Russian sense," which he said meant he had attended rallies Trump spoke at.
posted by diogenes at 3:29 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

“I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”

in conclusion politics is a land of contrasts
posted by entropicamericana at 3:29 PM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”

Put another way: Trump's knowledge of world affairs is so inadequate that ten minutes of listening to somebody explain the basics of the China-Korea relationship is revelatory.

We're one potential crisis away from being toast as a species, aren't we?
posted by Rykey at 3:31 PM on April 12, 2017 [29 favorites]

real estate development and brand management are way less complicated than i thought

Don't leave out neurosurgery!
posted by contraption at 3:32 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Worse, he's so clueless that he thought it was a good idea to explain how clueless he is about world affairs to a reporter.

"I thought this stuff about North Korea but then I talked to someone who knew what they were talking about for 10 minutes and now I know better" is a Cracked.com article, not something we should be hearing from the President of the United States.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on April 12, 2017 [29 favorites]

This is kind of a derail but there's something I've been wondering about. If precincts in America wanted to mimic the Australian tradition of democracy sausage, and have like a little Election Day Festival, what are the obstacles in the way of that? are there legal issues or just money? We've talked about making Election Day a national holiday, and how it wouldn't solve the turnout problem, but just making it feel more pleasant and holiday-ish would be worthwhile in itself.

A couple years ago there was a piece about a polling station in an upper class hotel in California, where they gave you complimentary coffee and shit like that. Andit was such a big contrast between that and like everywhere else. It might not be appropriate for every area but I think it would be cool.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:40 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

Also from the article, this sentence:

Mr. Trump said the ships are meant to deter North Korea from taking further actions. He said he called Mr. Xi on Tuesday night and during an hourlong conversation told him he should let North Korean leader Kim Jong Un know the U.S. doesn’t just have aircraft carriers, but also nuclear submarines.

Submarines came up in his Fox Business interview too:

"We are sending an armada. Very powerful," Mr Trump told Fox Business Network. "We have submarines. Very powerful. Far more powerful than the aircraft carrier. That I can tell you.”

Does he think North Korea doesn't know we have submarines? Did he just discover we have submarines himself? Because he's suddenly obsessed with submarines.
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

If precincts in America wanted to mimic the Australian tradition of democracy sausage, and have like a little Election Day Festival, what are the obstacles in the way of that?

merely common decency and the lack of political machines ... there was a time when the parties would get their supporters riotously drunk and well fed in preparation for the vote

oddly enough, they didn't vote as idiotically as they do now ...
posted by pyramid termite at 3:44 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Guns. I can tell you there are guns on our boats too. Just so he knows.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 3:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

are there legal issues or just money?

Not a lawyer, not legal advice, just someone who's wanted to do this. I think you're OK as long as you're offering to all comers, not just those who voted. The relevant federal law is 18 U.S. Code § 597 - Expenditures to influence voting. Some states have related laws, too.
posted by Coventry at 3:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Did he just discover we have submarines himself?

More likely he just discovered that our submarines are bristling with nukes, he probably thought they were just for underwater spying and firing torpedoes at other boats.
posted by contraption at 3:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

AP: President Donald Trump: "We're not getting along with Russia at all," relations at an "all-time low."

So we've reached the point in the reality show right before the team finally pulls together and completes the challenge?
posted by chris24 at 3:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

What do you think makes submarines "far more powerful than the aircraft carrier, I can tell you" in Trump's mind? It has to be nukes, right?
posted by valkane at 3:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

More likely he just discovered that our submarines are bristling with nukes, he probably thought they were just for underwater spying and firing torpedoes at other boats.

It has to be nukes, right?

Yup, I'm sure he recently learned that they can shoot missiles.
posted by diogenes at 3:47 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

Wait until he finds out that North Korea also has submarines: "The chilling thought of North Korea's fully submersible submarines firing a nuclear ballistic missile isn't as far-fetched as some might think."
posted by zachlipton at 3:47 PM on April 12, 2017

After all this time, the depth of Trump's ignorance still has the power to shock me.
posted by diogenes at 3:49 PM on April 12, 2017 [16 favorites]

Paul Manafort is not having a good day. NYT: After Campaign Exit, Manafort Borrowed From Businesses With Trump Ties

Aug. 19 was an eventful day for Paul Manafort.

That morning, he stepped down from guiding Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign, after a brief tenure during which Mr. Trump won the Republican nomination, Democrats’ emails were hacked and the campaign’s contacts with Russia came under scrutiny. Dogged by revelations about past financial dealings in Ukraine, Mr. Manafort retreated from public view.

But behind the scenes, he was busy with other matters. Papers were recorded that same day creating a shell company controlled by Mr. Manafort that soon received $13 million in loans from two businesses with ties to Mr. Trump, including one that partners with a Ukrainian-born billionaire and another led by a Trump economic adviser. They were among $20 million in loans secured by properties belonging to Mr. Manafort and his wife.

posted by zachlipton at 3:51 PM on April 12, 2017 [18 favorites]

Putin is just another contractor who has to settle for pennies on the dollar.

Something tells me that Putin is not the type to just settle; to borrow from Burroughs, "watch whose money you pick up."

What honest answer is there, other than, "Roll up the streets and close up shop, this town is going to die"?

Sometimes that is the only answer to the question, "What's going to happen to this town?" But there's other questions like, "How can I find success elsewhere?" that can and should be given good answers.
posted by Candleman at 3:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Wait until he finds out that North Korea also has submarines:

wait until he finds out there's no screen windows to keep out the skeeters
posted by pyramid termite at 3:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

"The chilling thought of North Korea's fully submersible submarines firing a nuclear ballistic missile isn't as far-fetched as some might think."

I would give 100 to 1 against NK being able to independently develop a nuclear missile which can be fired from a submarine before 2020. This is alarmist.
posted by Coventry at 3:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

North Korean submariner has got to be one of the worst jobs on the planet. I pet you have to juche your way out of drowning or bnot having air to breathe so often.
posted by Artw at 3:56 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

Did he just discover we have submarines himself? Because he's suddenly obsessed with submarines.

Maybe they let him sit at the conn and make diving noises?
posted by nubs at 3:56 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't think Trump has any idea how normal brains work. He seems to be unaware that some people know the history of China and Korea, or how NATO works, or the offensive capabilities of submarines. He really thinks that everybody walks around with a head empty of anything but visceral reactions to current stimulus.
posted by diogenes at 3:57 PM on April 12, 2017 [30 favorites]

It's just so greasy, watching a 70-year-old man becoming a Tom Clancy fan on the Tom Clancy Senior Pacific Princess cruise.
posted by valkane at 4:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

So we've reached the point in the reality show right before the team finally pulls together and completes the challenge?

for me the giveaway was when tillerson told russian PM Medvedev that he "wasn't here to make friends"

[fake]
posted by murphy slaw at 4:02 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

I wonder if President Xi has a few minutes to go over the pros and cons of using a giant wall as immigration control?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 4:05 PM on April 12, 2017 [40 favorites]

Trump's budget director on what's on, and off, the table for cuts

-- At 49, Mulvaney doesn't mind political storms. Elected to the House amid the tea party rebellion of 2010, he struck a pugnacious stance on government shutdowns and the debt limit, and eventually helped found the Freedom Caucus. That made him a natural fit for a new administration aiming to shake up Washington.

MULVANEY: I'll tell how I wrote it. And then you can decide for yourself. We looked at the speeches to try and figure out where he wanted to spend more money. And then we also had instructions not to add to the deficit. I laid to him the options that Mick Mulvaney would put on a piece of paper. And he looked at one and said, "What is that?" And I said, "Well, that's a change to part of Social Security." He said, "No. No." He said, "I told people I wouldn't change that when I ran. And I'm not going to change that. Take that off the list." So I get a chance to be Mick Mulvaney. I get a chance to have those same principles. And I give 'em to the president, and he makes the final decisions.

HARWOOD [Reporter]: He over and over went to West Virginia, went to rural parts of Kentucky and Ohio, said, "I'm going to take care of you guys." He didn't say, "I'm going to get rid of the Appalachian Regional Commission."*

-- MULVANEY: Yeah, and my guess is he probably didn't know what the Appalachian Regional Commission did. I was able to convince him, "Mr. President, this is not an efficient use of the taxpayer dollars. This is not the best way to help the people in West Virginia." He goes, "OK, that's great. Is there a way to get those folks the money in a more efficient way?" And the answer is yes. And that's what's we're going focus on doing.

HARWOOD: How cognizant is he of the fact that many of the people who supported him would be hurt by cuts that you proposed in the budget?

MULVANEY: The president is certainly conscious of the people who voted for him, right. But he cares about more than just the Trump voters. So when you say you know, people that voted for him are hurt, that's not the issue. He wants to know, "Are the folks in Appalachia, are the coal miners in West Virginia going to be better off under my presidency whether or not they voted for me?" He doesn't care if they voted for him. I think what the president will tell you is, "The best thing I can do for those folks, whether or not they voted for me, is to figure out a way to get 3.5 percent economic growth."

HARWOOD: I've had interviews with Republicans from Paul Ryan to John Thune who have been making the case that "we are going to persuade the president that we have to do something about entitlements." How are you going to manage that?

MULVANEY: We're working on it right now. He went through the list and said, "No, that's Social Security. That violates my promise. Take that off. That's Medicare. That violates my promise. Take that off."

HARWOOD: Is Social Security Disability on that list?

MULVANEY: I don't think we've settled yet. But I continue to look forward to talking to the president about ways to fix that program. Because that is one of the fastest growing programs that we have. It's become effectively a long-term unemployment, permanent unemployment program.

* Appalachian Regional Commission

-- ARC's mission is to innovate, partner, and invest to build community capacity and strengthen economic growth in Appalachia.

The Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC) is a regional economic development agency that represents a partnership of federal, state, and local government. Established by an act of Congress in 1965, ARC is composed of the governors of the 13 Appalachian states and a federal co-chair, who is appointed by the president. Local participation is provided through multi-county local development districts. ARC invests in activities that address the five goals identified in the Commission's strategic plan: Goal 1: Economic Opportunities, Goal 2: Ready Workforce, Goal 3: Critical Infrastructure, Goal 4: Natural and Cultural Assets, & Goal 5: Leadership and Community Capacity.

-- Each year ARC provides funding for several hundred investments in the Appalachian Region, in areas such as business development, education and job training, telecommunications, infrastructure, community development, housing, and transportation. These projects create thousands of new jobs; improve local water and sewer systems; increase school readiness; expand access to health care; assist local communities with strategic planning; and provide technical and managerial assistance to emerging businesses.

Sounds just awful right? Mulvaney and his ilk are odious, abhorrent, evil little fucks. Question: if the Appalachian Regional Commission was established by an act of Congress it won't be easy to get rid of it right? I'd love it if someone told me that this was a pie in the sky fantasy for Mulvaney.
posted by futz at 4:23 PM on April 12, 2017 [23 favorites]

If Congress creates it, Congress can get rid of it. Congress has to pass some kind of funding measure to keep the government operating. If it says the Appalachian Regional Commission gets $0, that's what the Appalachian Regional Commission gets. Whether or not it exists on paper is largely irrelevant if it has no budget.
posted by zachlipton at 4:26 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's just so greasy, watching a 70-year-old man becoming a Tom Clancy fan on the Tom Clancy Senior Pacific Princess cruise.

Tom Clancy would say the Trump story plot outline is too far-fetched. And his latter works are pretty fucking out there.
posted by mikelieman at 4:27 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

MULVANEY: I don't think we've settled yet. But I continue to look forward to talking to the president about ways to fix that program. Because that is one of the fastest growing programs that we have. It's become effectively a long-term unemployment, permanent unemployment program.

People who can't find work in depressed areas tend not to want to starve and there's a lifetime limit of five years on welfare. I shudder to think how they're going to balance this equation and I hope to god they work on the the employment side before taking a sword to SSDI as long term unemployment.
posted by Talez at 4:32 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump's budget director on what's on, and off, the table for cuts

This is how the New Republic summarized that interview:

Donald Trump ruined everything by hiring a bunch of movement conservatives who think he’s a sucker. It would be going too far to say President Trump’s top budget guy is happy to brag about how his boss is an easily manipulable dupe. But not much.

Over the course of an important interview with CNBC’s John Harwood, OMB Director Mick Mulvaney repeatedly betrays the fact that his ideological goals (as a movement conservative, and founding-member of the House Freedom Caucus) differ from Trump’s campaign promises in many ways—but that he thinks he can outmaneuver his boss.

posted by peeedro at 4:38 PM on April 12, 2017 [29 favorites]

MULVANEY: I don't think we've settled yet. But I continue to look forward to talking to the president about ways to fix that program. Because that is one of the fastest growing programs that we have. It's become effectively a long-term unemployment, permanent unemployment program.

Because people who are disabled, by definition can't work, you fuck.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [42 favorites]

Are these people idiots? Do they remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?

That was the Soviet Union. This is Russia!
posted by kirkaracha at 4:43 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

With Trump being so open and exposed in his buffoonery the whole world knows that there is nobody driving the bus here. We're exposed and incredibly vulnerable. Our general state of security is probably at the lowest it's ever been in my life.

Just try to imagine how many high level players in government, finance and industry world-wide who have spent the last couple of months strategizing how to exploit this situation. Things are in the works for sure.

The only thing holding anyone back is the knowledge that Putin is pulling the strings and maybe they don't want to cross him.

We're a sitting duck for all kinds of shenanigans.

Thank you republican asshole, traitor, un-American fascists.
posted by snsranch at 4:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [24 favorites]

MULVANEY: I don't think we've settled yet. But I continue to look forward to talking to the president about ways to fix that program. Because that is one of the fastest growing programs that we have. It's become effectively a long-term unemployment, permanent unemployment program.

Because people who are disabled, by definition can't work, you fuck.

If there's any karmic justice in the wheels of the universe, Mulvaney gets reincarnated as one of those rats in the longevity study that gets like 60% of its daily caloric needs, so that he can live a good long time in starvation.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

And idiots. I forgot to say idiots. And morons...well you get the idea.
posted by snsranch at 4:46 PM on April 12, 2017

I'd have more professional thoughts because I deal with SSA policy on a daily basis, but without any real proposals yet it's hard to have a coherent response.

But Mulvaney and Ryan are saying the soft parts loud. They want to kick everyone off SSI and SSDI, because they believe all disabled people are liars. See, if you just offer people with crippling schizophrenia the right incentives, they'll snap out of it and get to producing as a factory worker!

Well, that and Republicans want to kill off every last part of the New Deal because it disproves their argument that government can never do anything for anyone. That's the real reason, everything else is after the fact rationalization.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [38 favorites]

The past few days have my confidence that we get through Trump's presidency without shit going truly sideways at an all-time low.
posted by diogenes at 4:50 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump cut Social Security changes from budget proposal
“I laid to him the options that Mick Mulvaney would put on a piece of paper,” Mulvaney told CNBC in an interview that aired Tuesday. “And [Trump] looked at one and said, ‘What is that?’ And I said, ‘Well, that's a change to part of Social Security.’ He said, ‘No. No.’ He said, ‘I told people I wouldn't change that when I ran. And I'm not going to change that. Take that off the list.’ ”

Stopped clock maybe? Here's where the Trump vs. the Ryanists get interesting, Trump probably senses the danger in his lizard brain, but Ryan and Mulvaney have wanted to kill the New Deal since they were paying their college bar tab with Ryan's Survivor's benefits.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:50 PM on April 12, 2017 [35 favorites]

I would give 100 to 1 against NK being able to independently develop a nuclear missile which can be fired from a submarine before 20202030. This is alarmist.

Bit of a fix there. NK doesn't have modern miniaturized nukes that can be delivered by missiles and those are much harder than heavy low-yield 1948-era A-bombs they have managed to make. NK has been playing a bit of a kabuki theater here; we have nuclear missiles and nuclear missile subs. They have nukes and missiles and subs, which sounds positively threatening in the news, but they don't have the synergisms between those technologies and won't for a long, long time.

Also if you saw the news pics of their sub it has wire guard rails which are noisy as fuck under sail. The US and Russia have spent 60 years figuring out how to be quiet and hide from each other, both countries know where all of NK's subs are within a few inches via the hydrophone sensors we built to spy on each other.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:53 PM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump's stupidity and egomania may be the only thing really standing in the way of the New Deal killers. Just imagine what a President Cruz would be doing right now...
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

The past few days have my confidence that we get through Trump's presidency without shit going truly sideways at an all-time low.


i gave my daughter a piggybank and have been trying to teach her about the value of saving for the future but i have these daily twinges where i want to take her out of school and blow her college fund at Toys R Us because why not
posted by murphy slaw at 4:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [30 favorites]

What are people going to do when their options get down to steal or starve? Or maybe that's the point.
posted by Talez at 4:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

But Mulvaney and Ryan are saying the soft parts loud. They want to kick everyone off SSI and SSDI, because they believe all disabled people are liars. See, if you just offer people with crippling schizophrenia the right incentives, they'll snap out of it and get to producing as a factory worker!

Oh, I think it's well beyond that. They just. don't. fucking. care. These are guys that would happily unplug your life support if it was cutting into their profits by one thin dime. They fully understand that some people are flat-out unemployable (at least in self-sustaining fulltime ways) and are 100% OK with turning those people out into the streets to die or bankrupt their caretakers simply because they don't have any sense of government as the large-scale machinery of mutual community responsibility. Or any sense of community, for that matter.

I remember vividly when Ronald Reagan pretty much scuttled the entire state and federal mental health care and support system. It was fucking ugly, we are still feeling its effects today, and he idiotically grinned all the way through it and never lost a moment's sleep. And these guys think it was a modest good start.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:59 PM on April 12, 2017 [42 favorites]

So I just looked in Google Trends to see how often people are searching "we're all gonna die" and the results are um, interesting.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:00 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

What are people going to do when their options get down to steal or starve? Or maybe that's the point.

i want to find the wag that convinced the trump campaign that "You Can't Always Get What You Want" was the best rally music and get them to talk the republican congressional committee into adopting "You Can't Win" from the Wiz as the official theme of the 2018 campaign

content warning: michael jackson's original nose
posted by murphy slaw at 5:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

I remember vividly when Ronald Reagan pretty much scuttled the entire state and federal mental health care and support system. It was fucking ugly, we are still feeling its effects today, and he idiotically grinned all the way through it and never lost a moment's sleep. And these guys think it was a modest good start.

i feel like people born after the 80's don't understand that city streets full of homeless schizophrenic veterans are not an immutable feature of the universe
posted by murphy slaw at 5:09 PM on April 12, 2017 [138 favorites]

@Murphy Slaw - I believe that. I was born in 1985, and I always assumed homeless mentally-ill people were just inevitable.

Then in college at Berkeley, one of my professors interrupted a regular English class (I'm pretty sure King Lear) to say, "You know, the homeless population you see on the streets of Berkeley now - 25 years ago, they weren't here. There were facilities for them to live in, and to get care. Those were all closed under the Reagan administration in California." She then went back to her regularly scheduled pontificating on the lit itself, while my mind exploded in the realization that *politics matter.*
posted by samthemander at 5:15 PM on April 12, 2017 [93 favorites]

Carter Page is just so damn strange. It's going to be surreal if he ever publicly testifies.

I'm callin' it right now: if Page testifies at an open Congressional hearing, at least one committee member will, at some point, visibly a) roll their eyes, b) headdesk, or c) mutter "Jesus Christ."

In fact, someone should get a Carter Page day-drinking game ready, just in case.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 PM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

As I've said elsewhere on here, I remember the first time I saw a homeless mentally ill woman - it was the early eighties, I was pretty little and it really scared me because she was in a bad way. My mother, who was with me, said something that in retrospect was more or less "Reagan got rid of all the homes for those people".
posted by Frowner at 5:19 PM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

We were Carter Page before Carter Pagians were Carter Paging it!
posted by valkane at 5:20 PM on April 12, 2017

I remember vividly when Ronald Reagan pretty much scuttled the entire state and federal mental health care and support system.

Reagan was also last time time Republicans tried a widescale purge of the SS disability rolls and ended up losing a bunch of lawsuits over taking away benefits without process, ultimately leading to today's continuing review standards (which of course are the only things Republicans still want to fund at the agency).

But the Republican line, then and now, is disability doesn't count as "real" Social Security.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:23 PM on April 12, 2017 [15 favorites]

The white rural and Rust Belt communities that elected Donald Trump are in disarray: they are suffering from high levels of social disorganization caused by drug addiction

Fuck them. They got who they voted for. Where are the articles about people who voted for Clinton and are coping with Trump? Or people who didn't vote and really regret not voting? I am sick and fucking tired of all the articles about self-destructive Trump voters whining.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:25 PM on April 12, 2017 [47 favorites]

T.D. Strange: Because people who are disabled, by definition can't work, you fuck.

...and this is the moment where I abandon rational thought for the simple release of screaming in incoherent rage.....
posted by mikelieman at 5:25 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Dana Milbank, WaPo: The unforgivable mistake Sean Spicer makes every day

What Sean Spicer has done is inexcusable, and I cannot forgive him.

I’m not talking about the White House press secretary’s claim Tuesday that Adolf Hitler didn’t use poison gas, at least not against his “own people,” even if the Nazis did send Jews to “Holocaust centers.” He has apologized profusely for that.

What’s unforgivable is Spicer’s brazen assault on spoken English.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:26 PM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Thankfully, people with disabilities aren't obligated to believe people who denigrate their capabilities. They can and do work, T.D. Strange, and our world is better for it.

Also I clicked on one of your links and it was a Breitbart page and that was unpleasant in the extreme.
posted by jesourie at 5:30 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

The question is, would you show the same compassion for a Trump voter as you would for a homeless person? Because in his mind, they are one and the same.
posted by valkane at 5:31 PM on April 12, 2017

I'm sorry, but they could've voted for a candidate who offered a detailed plan to fight opioid addiction and chose the guy who said, "How does heroin work with these beautiful lakes and trees?" They could've voted for a candidate who had "a $30 billion plan to ensure that coal miners and their families get the benefits they’ve earned and respect they deserve."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on April 12, 2017 [23 favorites]

content warning: michael jackson's original nose

I draw the "Michael Jackson Line" at the "Bad" tour ( September 1987 - January 1989 ).

The Wiz, in 1978 IIRC, falls on the "Not Insane" side of the "Michael Jackson Line"

I will refrain from further commentary.
posted by mikelieman at 5:34 PM on April 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

It has instead been proved so far to be a poison.

Man who edits Salon these days
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:37 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

maybe sean spicer is moonlighting at salon
posted by murphy slaw at 5:40 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Is there something they're putting in the water in North Carolina, because a whole lot of awfulness seems to be coming out of there lately? Today we have: NC legislator compares Hitler to Abraham Lincoln in Facebook post:

A commenter reminded Pittman that the Supreme Court ruling settled the law on gay marriage and that the lawmaker should “get over it.”

Pittman’s response: “And if Hitler had won, should the world just get over it? Lincoln was the same sort (of) tyrant, and personally responsible for the deaths of over 800,000 Americans in a war that was unnecessary and unconstitutional.”

Another commenter asked Pittman to explain why he believes the Civil War, which resulted in the end of slavery, was “unnecessary.” He did not respond to the question on the Facebook page.

posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [30 favorites]

they could've voted for a candidate who offered a detailed plan
...and who would have spent the last 100 days and next 600 days banging her head against a legislative brick wall. Aren't some of these plans the same thing Obama gave up on accomplishing in his second term?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:43 PM on April 12, 2017

The unified democratic message needs to be simple and concrete. I propose "Vote Democratic for College, Jobs, and Medicare." Free college, guaranteed jobs, and Medicare for all. Things people want.
posted by medusa at 5:44 PM on April 12, 2017 [11 favorites]

Thankfully, people with disabilities aren't obligated to believe people who denigrate their capabilities. They can and do work, T.D. Strange, and our world is better for it.

You're right, and there's a big difference between people with "disabilities" as used in the popular parlance (or even other legal definitions such as the ADA), and the legal definition of "disabled" under the Social Security Act: "The law defines disability as the inability to do any substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment which can be expected to result in death or which has lasted or can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months."

So, I don't mean to denigrate people who work in spite of their challenges, far from it. That's the definition I was working from in the context of Social Security programs, and the same one Mulvaney was referring to as well, and he's utterly wrong about it.

Also I clicked on one of your links and it was a Breitbart page and that was unpleasant in the extreme.

Yep. That's the standard Republican party line, has been for 40 years. It's not pretty. I'll include a [warning:Republican rhetoric] trigger warning next time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:44 PM on April 12, 2017 [19 favorites]

Pittman’s response: “And if Hitler had won, should the world just get over it? Lincoln was the same sort (of) tyrant, and personally responsible for the deaths of over 800,000 Americans in a war that was unnecessary and unconstitutional.”

I'm torn between just shutting down the computer, walking away, and falling asleep hugging a magnum of Wild Turkey 101, and explaining why I'm shutting down the computer, walking way, and falling asleep hugging a magnum of Wild Turkey 101.

Good Night, Everybody, and I sincerely pray we're all still here in the morning.
posted by mikelieman at 5:45 PM on April 12, 2017 [10 favorites]

No foul play suspected, but still noteworthy in case it becomes a pattern.

First Black, first Muslim judge on New York high court found dead in the Hudson river. She was 65 and "very happy."

https://twitter.com/onekade/status/852306663537344512
posted by Yowser at 5:47 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

Good Night, Everybody, and I sincerely pray we're all still here in the morning.

I admire, and indeed envy, your optimism mikelieman
posted by some loser at 5:48 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Foreign Press in North Korea Told to Prepare for ‘Big Event’: Officials gave no details as to the nature of the event or where it would take place, and similar announcements in the past have been linked to relatively low-key set pieces.
posted by roomthreeseventeen

This Saturday is Day of the Sun in North Korea

The Day of the Sun (Chosŏn'gŭl: 태양절; MR: T'aeyang-jŏl) is an annual public holiday in North Korea on 15 April, the birth anniversary of Kim Il-sung, founder and president of North Korea.[5] It is the most important national holiday of the country.[6]

Kim Il-sung's birthday, which had been an official holiday since 1968, was renamed Day of the Sun in 1997, three years after his death. The name takes its significance from the name of the leader. Il-sung is Korean for "become the Sun".

So if something happens it will most likely occur on April 15th. This is breathtakingly sad:

The state serves special foods such as meat and liquor[16] as well as necessities to the people on the Day of the Sun to signal that all well-being is thanks to the care of the leader.[3] The state tries to maintain stable supply of electricity for the day to allow people to watch television, while theaters show special movies.[16] The food situation varies.[2] According to North Korean defector Kim Hyun-hwa: "The Sun Festival is one of the few occasions during which everyone can eat to their heart's content. Even those who go hungry on a regular basis usually manage to obtain three meals on this day. This is because North Korea marks it as the biggest holiday for the Korean people."[20] However, in 2015 the state reportedly failed to distribute rations and did not deliver middle-school uniforms that schoolchildren were expecting to receive.[12]

Children under the age of 12 receive bags of one kilogram (2.2 lb) of candy and cookies at ceremonies at school. Upon receiving this gift, they have to bow in front of portraits of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il in the classroom and say: "Thank you, the Great Leader Grandfather! And, thank you Father!"

This Saturday is the ending of a 2 month celebration.

A similar holiday exists for 16 February, the birthday of former leader Kim Jong-il, known as Day of the Shining Star.[2] The two-month period between the Day of the Shining Star and the Day of the Sun is known as the Loyalty Festival Period and festivities occur throughout.[4]
posted by futz at 5:49 PM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

Good Night, Everybody, and I sincerely pray we're all still here in the morning.

I admire, and indeed envy, your optimism mikelieman

"Good night, Westley. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."
posted by Evilspork at 5:51 PM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

One of the things that's so tantalizing to me about the 20 point shift in KA and CA is things like, oh the fact that Ted Cruz won his Senate seat by 16 points. In a much more conservative time and a state already showing about a 10 point drift towards the left in 2016.
posted by threeturtles at 5:54 PM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

prize bull octorok: Alexandra Petri so national treasure there's a movie about Nic Cage stealing her

Shamelessly stolen and tweeted at her
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:55 PM on April 12, 2017 [16 favorites]

Hey, the DCCC just called me about GA-6.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:31 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

How does the google "top stories" with pictures work? I searched for "georgia special election" this afternoon and breibart was the first news article shown; at home it's the second. Is that ad space?
posted by armacy at 6:37 PM on April 12, 2017

Hey, the DCCC just called me about GA-6.

The Late Lord Frey.

About as far as I could hurl 'em.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Punk ass chump. Now bring on the pee tape!

put me in coach.
posted by pee tape at 6:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [25 favorites]

Hey, the DCCC just called me about GA-6.

aaaand?
posted by futz at 6:42 PM on April 12, 2017

threeturtles: "One of the things that's so tantalizing to me about the 20 point shift in KA and CA is things like, oh the fact that Ted Cruz won his Senate seat by 16 points. In a much more conservative time and a state already showing about a 10 point drift towards the left in 2016."

Nate Silver mentioned today that a uniform 20 point gain would mean a Dem pickup of 122 House seats plus Senate seats in TX, UT, MS, AZ, and NV. That would be something, all right.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:50 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

KS, please.

Down, Toto! Down! Back, I say!
posted by petebest at 6:58 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wed GA-06 numbers:

Day 14 of early voting in GA-6 is R 52, D 32--first day that Trump probably would have won
Over all, D 44, R 40 with 39419 votes counted

Election day turnout in heavily Dem Dekalb county, which is very underserved by early voting centers (red dots), will be important.

posted by Chrysostom at 7:09 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

Nate Silver mentioned today that a uniform 20 point gain would mean a Dem pickup of 122 House seats plus Senate seats in TX, UT, MS, AZ, and NV. That would be something, all right.

The largest wave election was 111 seats in 1894, and 97 in 1932 during the Depression. The tea party wave of 2010 was 63. Democratic "waves" in 2006 and 2008 were only 31 and 21, but a lot of those districts look much different following 2010's Republican gerrymandering.

I don't think special elections will translate well especially to the Senate outlook, but Democratic Senate holds in this election in states like Montana will be as big as a win, because the 2020 Senate map is as bad for Republicans as 2018 is for Democrats.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:14 PM on April 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

WaPo: Inside Bannon’s struggle: From ‘shadow president’ to Trump’s marked man

The president’s comments were described by White House officials as a dressing-down and warning shot, though one Bannon friend, reflecting on them Wednesday, likened Bannon to a terminally ill family member who had been moved into hospice care.

they're basically trolling the administration on the front page now.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:25 PM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

Inside Bannon’s struggle: From ‘shadow president’ to Trump’s marked man

It would be so much more hilarious how easy and obvious the "President Bannon" stuff was if it wasn't so utterly fucking terrifying.
posted by Etrigan at 7:29 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Agreed, T.D. Strange, I think Silver was more trying to put the swings we've seen so far into perspective. I don't think anyone really expects 100+ seats to change hands.

What I'm *really* interested in is state legislature and governor control, given that we are coming up on the next re-districting.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

This story about Summit Ice Jackets is going to take a little more than a pull quote, so bear with me, it's worth it:

Nov. 2015: Comedian fights Holocaust denial with jackets — Nathan Fielder’s new outerwear company

So, how exactly does one come up with the idea to promote Holocaust awareness by selling windbreakers at $109.99 a pop? Well, it has to do with making amends for Fielder’s inadvertently having worn on camera for years a jacket made by Taiga, a Vancouver-based company that had published a tribute to known Holocaust denier writer Doug Collins. The tribute was published in Taiga’s winter catalogue in 2002, but Fielder only became aware of it this year.

Fielder, who is Jewish and grew up in Vancouver, decided it wasn’t enough to just take off the offensive jacket.

“In searching for a replacement, I realized I couldn’t be sure that any of these other jacket companies weren’t hiding dark secrets as well. So, I thought the only way to be safe was to start a jacket company of my own,” he told O’Brien.

March 2017: Check Out Some Photos from Nathan Fielder’s Pop-Up Summit Ice Store

According to CBC News, the Summit Ice store’s location was very close to a Taiga store, the Holocaust-denying brand that inspired Fielder to start Summit Ice in the first place. It’s also raised a ton of money for the Vancouver Holocaust Education Centre:

Fielder, who also has a business degree from the University of Victoria, says the company has sold more than $500,000 worth of products since it began.

And finally:

April 12, 2017: Nathan Fielder Is Sending Sean Spicer His Very Own Summit Ice Jacket

Spicer has since apologized for the comments, but given his obvious, glaring ignorance about even the most basic Holocaust knowledge, Nathan Fielder decided to do him a favor by sending him his very own Summit Ice jacket. It’s time to Deny Nothing, Mr. Spicer:

posted by Room 641-A at 7:44 PM on April 12, 2017 [24 favorites]

So Trump’s a visual learner? You can send your message to him now with #MyDoodle4Donald

That’s right: Simply draw your message for President Trump and post it to social media with the hashtag #MyDoodle4Donald.

Comic Riffs will publish and retweet some of the most interesting ones.

I had the same damn idea a few days ago but I wanted to use real photographs in a overly simplistic flowchart layout. [Photograph 1] + [Photograph 2] -----> [Photograph 3 (optional. keep it simple for the Orange Chimp)] = [Last Photograph]. Doodles and cartoons won't even register with trump. That said, I think that #MyDoodle4Donald does allow photos. I hope people use real life photos b/c I don't believe that trump is clever enough to extrapolate a doodle/comic into real life. And honestly, skip donald and tweet ivanka instead. Tweet both of them at least and expect nothing. These are not intelligent self-aware people.

Or maybe just tag your story about your blonde blue eyed mother/child/grandmother (sarcasm) not getting healthcare #WeWereAllOnceBeautifulBabies or #AmericasBeautifulChildrenDeserveBetter or #TrumpIsn'tGassingAmericansButHesGassedOurHealthCare.

I know, I know. That's not how #'s work and it would never get any traction. #TrumpDoesn'tNeedGasToKillAmericansToo.
posted by futz at 7:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

U.S. Rep Tom Marino (PA-10) is to be named drug czar. Two points on that:

A) Marino will likely be completely disastrous.

B) This sets up another special election. This one is pretty challenging - the 10th is a big glob of northeast PA, 94% white. Marino won in '16 by 40 points, DJT by 36 points.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:54 PM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

Marino will likely be completely disastrous.

There's going to be raids on Blue State dispensaries. They're setting up all the pieces.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:58 PM on April 12, 2017 [27 favorites]

A unique, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity: Melania Trump accepts Daily Mail damages and apology in libel case
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:00 PM on April 12, 2017

McSweeney's: NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC ARTICLES IN THE YEAR 2030

These Striking Photographs Show the Best On-Fire Lakes from Around the World

Did Lemurs Have Personalities? If So, Were They Bummed Out When They Became Extinct?

Let’s Check In With the Billionaires Who Escaped to an Underground Bunker Nation As We Descended Into Pandemonium

95 Degrees Fahrenheit in December — Is This the Coldest Winter in Years?

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:01 PM on April 12, 2017 [14 favorites]

New Yorker: Earth Day In The Age Of Trump

How is it that a group as disorganized as the Trump Administration has been so methodical when it comes to the (anti) environment? The simplest answer is that money focusses the mind. Lots of corporations stand to profit from Trump’s regulatory rollback, even as American consumers suffer. Auto manufacturers, for example, had argued that the 2022 fuel-efficiency standards were too expensive to meet. (This is the case even though, when they accepted a federal bailout, during the Obama Administration, the car companies said that the standards were achievable.) Similarly, utilities have argued that the power-plant rules are too costly to comply with. Coal companies will probably benefit from the rollbacks. So, too, will oil companies, and perhaps also ceiling-fan manufacturers, though, in the case of the appliance standards, the affected manufacturers were at the table when the proposed regulations were drafted.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:04 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

At some point we have to ask ourselves: with all these guys around him playing footsie with Russia, how did he not know? Just how oblivious was he? The way they were making deals & going back & forth, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of them just ran into each other randomly at the Moscow Airport at some point. And he had a lot of his own deals. But with all this Russian business in common, none of the shady & beyond shady stuff ever came up between them.

What did Trump know & when did he know it?
posted by scalefree at 9:06 PM on April 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

WaPo: Trump’s climate change shift is really about killing the international order

…Trump's policy reflects a deeper truth. Climate change denial is not incidental to a nationalist, populist agenda. It's central to it. And that's not a coincidence.

Combating global warming requires international cooperation, multinational agreements and rules. Done right, no country is exceptional, and some might have to sacrifice for others. In other words, it strengthens the international order that Trump and his team are so assiduously trying to dismantle in the name of “America First.”

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:08 PM on April 12, 2017 [38 favorites]

Just how oblivious was he?

I mean, he's a guy who just suggested that China try telling North Korea that we have submarines, so I'd actually be willing to believe he can be pretty damn oblivious.
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 PM on April 12, 2017 [13 favorites]

What did Trump know & when did he know it?

And how much of it can he still remember?
posted by Tsuga at 9:18 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

This little thread from Clara Jeffery of Mother Jones:

1/ look for Bannon to shank Miller and Sessions on his way out 🍿🍿🍿
2/ these people are as horrible to each other as they are to the country. Which makes it easy to enjoy the backstabbing piece. But
3/ every article about palace intrigue is more terrifying than next. Do you root for white supremislcists? The self satisfied princeling?
4/ do you hope than the rapacious capitalists can cocoon Trump and keep him from randomly veering between globally vital policies
5/ as awful as the advisers are, the saying "the fish rots from the head down" has never been more apt

raises something that hadn't really occurred to me - how much damage can Bannon do if he decides he's tired of standing in the airlock waiting to be spaced? Is he part of the inner circle on the Russia stuff? Will he return to Breitbart and aim a flamethrower at the administration for as long as it lasts? How much dirt does he have on everyone involved?

Maybe alienating the nihilist who wants to burn everything down isn't a great long-term plan?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2017 [48 favorites]

If Bannon is forced out, I'd expect to see Breitbart doing an awful lot of whining about how the "globalists" advising Trump are steering him away from fulfilling his campaign promises and from making America great. It's going to be scary times.
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 PM on April 12, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maybe alienating the nihilist who wants to burn everything down isn't a great long-term plan?
I never suspected that DJT has had a genuine "long-term plan" in his life.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:26 PM on April 12, 2017 [6 favorites]

Just wanted to point this out: this quote from Eric Trump in an interview with the Telegraph takes on a whole new meaning in light of Trump's eugenics.

“My grandmother was just an amazing woman. So many of the traits that he has and we all have, no question came out of her genes,” the younger Mr Trump says.

I bet there's just something really weird going on in that family related to this.
posted by scalefree at 9:41 PM on April 12, 2017 [8 favorites]

you think they're weird now imagine how strange they're gonna be 100 years from now when Ivanka's psychotically unstable 3rd clone is controlling everything from the Villa Straylight up in the spindle.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:46 PM on April 12, 2017 [22 favorites]

Undercooled meat. Dangerous fish. Health inspectors zing Trump’s Mar-a-Lago kitchen

Just days before the state visit of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to Mar-a-Lago, President Donald Trump’s Palm Beach private club, Florida restaurant inspectors found potentially dangerous raw fish and cited the club for storing food in two broken down coolers.

Inspectors found 13 violations at the fancy club’s kitchen, according to recently published reports — a record for an institution that charges $200,000 in initiation fees.

We're talking about storing ham at 57 degrees level of bad here.
posted by zachlipton at 9:52 PM on April 12, 2017 [49 favorites]

Undercooled meat. Dangerous fish. Health inspectors zing Trump’s Mar-a-Lago kitchen

Ha. Wouldn't it be rich if Trump got food poisoning from his own restaurant?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:00 PM on April 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ha. Wouldn't it be rich if Trump got food poisoning from his own restaurant?

Now we know why Trump has his steaks served well done.
posted by Surely This at 10:03 PM on April 12, 2017 [55 favorites]

These are not men of steel. One of them will rat. Sounds like Page kind of has already.
posted by scalefree at 10:12 PM on April 12, 2017

Look at this whole culture of leaking. They created it, they're responsible for it. It's just who they are apparently.
posted by scalefree at 10:15 PM on April 12, 2017

Lincoln was the same sort (of) tyrant, and personally responsible for the deaths of over 800,000 Americans in a war that was unnecessary and unconstitutional.

During his first inaugural address, on March 4, 1861, Lincoln said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists." He also endorsed the Corwin Amendment, which had already passed both houses of Congress and would have made institutionalized slavery and prevented Congress from making amendments against it. The Confederates attacked Fort Sumter just over a month later.

As the Supreme Court later decided in Texas v. White (1869), secession was in fact unconstitutional.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:24 PM on April 12, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump has shown signs of long-term planning: He's seen many a cute 9-year-old and planned where he was going to take her on a date when she was "old enough". Wish I was kidding.
posted by maxwelton at 10:33 PM on April 12, 2017 [9 favorites]

"WashPost reports that White House strategy is now being dictated by what's best for Trump's businesses" (from this Post story on Bannon):

Trump’s three oldest children — Donald Jr., Ivanka and Eric — and Kushner have been frustrated by the impression of chaos inside the White House and feel that their father has not always been served well by his senior staff, according to people with knowledge of their sentiments. The Trump heirs are interested in any changes that might help resuscitate the presidency and preserve the family’s name at a time when they are trying to expand the Trump Organization’s portfolio of hotels.

“The fundamental assessment is that if they want to win the White House in 2020, they’re not going to do it the way they did in 2016, because the family brand would not sustain the collateral damage,” said one well-connected Republican operative, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the president’s family. “It would be so protectionist, nationalist and backward-looking that they’d only be able to build in Oklahoma City or the Ozarks.”

I can't tell whether to be horrified that policy is being set based on a desire to protect the brand or relived that there's at least some force that could moderate their worst policies. (And Oklahoma County only went 52% for Trump, so not even sure they could build there.)
posted by zachlipton at 10:35 PM on April 12, 2017 [32 favorites]

I can't tell whether to be horrified that policy is being set based on a desire to protect the brand

No conflict of interest! You're the conflict of interest!
posted by jaduncan at 10:43 PM on April 12, 2017 [21 favorites]

US intelligence intercepted communications between Syrian military and chemical experts

The US military and intelligence community has intercepted communications featuring Syrian military and chemical experts talking about preparations for the sarin attack in Idlib last week, a senior US official tells CNN.

The intercepts were part of an immediate review of all intelligence in the hours after the attack to confirm responsibility for the use of chemical weapons in an attack in northwestern Syria, which killed at least 70 people. US officials have said that there is "no doubt" that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is responsible for the attack.

The US did not know prior to the attack it was going to happen, the official emphasized. The US scoops up such a large volume of communications intercepts in areas like Syria and Iraq, the material often is not processed unless there is a particular event that requires analysts to go back and look for supporting intelligence material.

-- The US now assesses that Syria has re-established a unit of personnel associated with chemical weapons that existed before the 2013 agreement in which the Syrian government pledged to give up its weapons inventory. And there is some indication they are getting outside help.

"We know they have the expertise. And we suspect that they have help," a US military official told reporters at a background briefing Friday.

At that briefing, the official also noted, "We know the Russians have chemical expertise in-country. We cannot talk about openly any complicity between the Russians and the Syrian regime in this -- in this case, but we're carefully assessing any information that would implicate the Russians knew or assisted with the Syrian capability."
posted by futz at 11:03 PM on April 12, 2017 [7 favorites]

What fuels the Republican fascination with demented daddy figure presidents? Trump, W the Second, and Reagan form quite the pattern. This seems important because all of the WW3 threats come when they are in power.

A random guess:

Fox viewers and the like are being told all the time that Democratic presidents don't have the balls to do what is needed and America is declining as a result. When all the foreign policy issues you have are portrayed as unsafely protruding nails, it looks more reasonable to fetch the hammer and stop those pesky liberals trying to prevent the leader doing what needs to be done. The fascists always require a threat to play against. See also: Erdogan/Kurds/Gulen, Assad/Sunnis/Kurds, Mugabe/any remaining white farmers, Trump/everyone brown/Democrats.

By golly, I say by golly, the people of less inherent worth who are constantly threatening us in a way that mocks and exploits us will respect us again once we put them in their place!
posted by jaduncan at 12:33 AM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

N. Korea Nuclear Test Could Come Saturday or Sooner, Sources Say
Last Updated: April 12, 2017 10:30 PM Steve Herman

North Korea appears to have a placed a device in a tunnel at its nuclear test site that could be detonated Saturday or even sooner, U.S. government and other sources said Wednesday.

"We have no comment but we will be watching closely," an official at the National Security Council told VOA.

North Korea on Saturday will observe the "Day of the Sun," marking the 105th birth anniversary of its founder, Kim Il Sung.

Commercial satellite imagery of the Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site from Wednesday showed continued activity around the north portal, new activity in the main administrative area and a few personnel around the command center, according to the 38 North website, which is run by the U.S.-Korea Institute of the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University.
The nuclear test facility is "primed and ready" for what would be North Korea's sixth nuclear test, according to an analysis by Joseph Bermudez Jr. and Jack Liu.

South Korea has no indications a military provocation by the North is imminent, Joint Chiefs of Staff spokesman Roh Jae-chun told reporters in Seoul on Thursday morning.

-- In April 2012, North Korea tried to launch a long-range rocket ahead of Kim Il Sung's 100th birth anniversary.

That launch failed.

April 6th: Groundhog Day: Activity Continues at North Korea’s Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site

Over the past four weeks, there have been unusually high levels of activity at the Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site, especially around the North Portal—the tunnel in which the four most recent nuclear tests have taken place. New commercial satellite imagery from April 2 indicates continued activity in this area and at the Main Administrative Area, while the rest of the facility remains quiet. This pattern of activity could mean a sixth nuclear test is imminent, but the imagery does not provide any definitive evidence of the installation of a nuclear device or the exact timing of such a test.

April 12th North Korea’s Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site: Primed and Ready

Commercial satellite imagery of North Korea’s Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site from April 12 shows continued activity around the North Portal, new activity in the Main Administrative Area, and a few personnel around the site’s Command Center.

At the North Portal, what appears to be a small vehicle or trailer is located immediately outside the entrance; the water flow out of the portal has diminished in the past 10 days; and what may be a small trailer is visible on the road south of the portal. The netting—suspended over probable equipment—south of the portal’s support building remains in place, and there has been no significant dumping of additional material on the portal’s spoil pile

I have zero knowledge about this source website. Many seemingly sane people on the twitters are citing it. We'll see. I do not doubt that something will happen close to or on April 15. The most likely scenario is another spectacular dud. Yo, DPRK, shock the world by feeding your people.
posted by futz at 12:50 AM on April 13, 2017

I'm confident President Trump will react to a North Korean nuclear test with the wisdom, calm demeanor, and precise attention to detail that we have all come to expect out of his administration.
posted by Justinian at 12:52 AM on April 13, 2017 [18 favorites]

I have zero knowledge about this source website.

38 North have a solid reputation, and I'd look to them as a serious source.
posted by jaduncan at 3:00 AM on April 13, 2017

From the WSJ's Beijing reporter. So much winning.

@tepingchen
How the news Trump won't label China a currency manipulator plays here:
"Eating his words!"
"Trump slaps self in face, again"
[screenshots]
posted by chris24 at 3:42 AM on April 13, 2017 [19 favorites]

Yeah, good ol' NC. Right there on par with Alaslamma and Mississip.

Color me spiky as fuck, but I'm having a hard time understanding why leaving is privileged, but touting accomplishments/benefits of life in a blue state, and pointing out the BS in the reds is not.
posted by yoga at 5:12 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

So that's a yes then.

@GStephanopoulos:
Carter Page tells me he can't guarantee he did not discuss easing of sanctions w Russian contacts; “Let’s see what the FISA transcripts say”
posted by chris24 at 5:24 AM on April 13, 2017 [13 favorites]

AKA "I am still not sure which conversations were or were not recorded under FISA." [fake quote]
posted by jaduncan at 5:27 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

Inside Bannon’s struggle

Bannon often refers to "My Struggle" in the White House.
posted by petebest at 5:29 AM on April 13, 2017 [21 favorites]

It's sort of endearing that Trump doesn't seem to grasp that a base assumption in any diplomatic environment is that your opposite number CAN READ THE FUCKING NEWSPAPERS.

NPR knows it, because yesterday evening they aired some concern trolling about Russia learning about the American intelligence system due to the revelations.

You know, the revelations that we know about Russia's influencing members of the Trump administration, because they talked to thinly-covered intelligence agents who had to know their communications were tapped.

Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 5:31 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

What fuels the Republican fascination with demented daddy figure presidents? Trump, W the Second, and Reagan form quite the pattern. This seems important because all of the WW3 threats come when they are in power.

George Lakoff has been telling us why for about 15 years at least. Search the interview for "strict father" and watch him break it down very neatly.
posted by petebest at 5:36 AM on April 13, 2017 [24 favorites]

I mean more like: what's to be done about the fact that the structure of our country - particularly the small, remote towns - is currently built around premises (such as cheap gas, agricultural jobs, a local-only economy etc) that no longer exist? Many, many factors - beyond anyone's control, even - mean there are fewer jobs in those small towns, that there will always, no matter who is in power, be fewer jobs in those small towns, without enormous intervention immigration.

Fixed. And there's the problem, right there.
posted by Gelatin at 5:42 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

Republicans want to kill off every last part of the New Deal because it disproves their argument that government can never do anything for anyone. That's the real reason, everything else is after the fact rationalization.

Democrats don't say this enough, not only to illustrate the odious Republican agenda -- cause widespread suffering in the name of their ideology! (hey, just like the Communists they once opposed) -- but to point out that the New Deal -- and many other Democratic policies, like the ACA -- disproves their argument that government can never do anything for anyone.
posted by Gelatin at 5:53 AM on April 13, 2017 [26 favorites]

Denizens of NYC, we have a chance to help release Trump's taxes:
City pol devises plan to force President Trump to reveal his tax returns

Councilman Corey Johnson plans to introduce legislation that would require a very specific subset of vendors with contracts for city concessions to turn over the “personal tax returns of any individual named in the entity.”

How specific is it? It only applies to one vendor: Trump Ferry Point LLC, the company behind Trump Golf Links at Ferry Point, the massively expensive municipal golf course in the Bronx that Trump's company now runs.

He's expected to introduce the bill next month. Here's where you can look up contact info for your city councilmember. Here's the council's schedule for May.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:00 AM on April 13, 2017 [26 favorites]

NY: The law says turn over your taxes
Trump: Nah.
NY: . . .


Say that 'minds me, we have an independent counsel for the Treasongate thing yet?
posted by petebest at 6:07 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

NY: The law says turn over your taxes
Trump: Nah.
NY: . . .

New York state already has his taxes. IANAL or an accountant, but could they compel release from NY Dept of Taxation and Finance?
posted by chris24 at 6:12 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

How specific is it? It only applies to one vendor: Trump Ferry Point LLC, the company behind Trump Golf Links at Ferry Point, the massively expensive municipal golf course in the Bronx that Trump's company now runs.

Wouldn't everybody be frothing at the outrage if local government we don't like made a law specifically targeting someone we like?
posted by Dr Dracator at 6:13 AM on April 13, 2017 [13 favorites]

How about instead of just targeting Trump we simply make all tax returns public? Seriously, what's the problem with that?

We Americans have this bizarre idea that how much money you make is the ultimate in personal information and should never, ever, be exposed. I think that hurts us in a lot of ways, especially those of us who work for a living and might like a bit more knowledge for negotiating purposes.

Mind, I think we ought to force every company (for profit or not) in the USA to disclose 100% of its financial information, taxes, earnings, investment, you name it, as well as the minutes of every meeting.
posted by sotonohito at 6:13 AM on April 13, 2017 [29 favorites]

Mind, I think we ought to force every company (for profit or not) in the USA to disclose 100% of its financial information, taxes, earnings, investment, you name it, as well as the minutes of every meeting.

Not loving the idea of retaining any tech RnD, eh?
posted by jaduncan at 6:16 AM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ex-MI6 chief says Donald Trump may have borrowed money from Russia to keep his empire afloat

Trump tweeted days before his inauguration: "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!"

Huh.
posted by petebest at 6:16 AM on April 13, 2017 [33 favorites]

Wouldn't everybody be frothing at the outrage if local government we don't like made a law specifically targeting someone we like?

Indeed. The proposed law, while shadenfruedelicious, seems close enough to a writ of attainder that I'm sure Trump's lawyers would try to get it thrown out on those grounds.
posted by Gelatin at 6:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

HARWOOD: Is Social Security Disability on that list?

MULVANEY: I don't think we've settled yet. But I continue to look forward to talking to the president about ways to fix that program. Because that is one of the fastest growing programs that we have. It's become effectively a long-term unemployment, permanent unemployment program.

He's not factually incorrect, Unfit for Work: The startling rise of disability in America.

I do have suspicions about his solution though.
posted by osi at 6:45 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's become effectively a long-term unemployment, permanent unemployment program.
He's not factually incorrect

That is literally the purpose of SSDI. To provide income for people who are unable to continue working due to a disability that is expected to last more than one year or result in death.

Mulvaney and the rest of them are eugenicists who believe that disabled people should not be supported or assisted in any way by society.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:55 AM on April 13, 2017 [83 favorites]

That is literally the purpose of SSDI. To provide income for people who are unable to continue working due to a disability that is expected to last more than one year or result in death.

Mulvaney and the rest of them are eugenicists who believe that disabled people should not be supported or assisted in any way by society.

agreed. what i found interesting about the NPR was the idea that "unable to continue working" is dependent upon "what work you can do". ie, back pain that makes it hard to stand is a disability when your only job prospects involve standing due to the employers in your area and your education. that makes total sense, but didn't occur to me until i had read it.

moving people from SSDI to nothing isn't a good solution, for the affected individuals nor the communities where they live (since it injects money into their local economies).
posted by osi at 7:06 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

jaduncan Not loving the idea of retaining any tech RnD, eh?

Eh, I can go along with exceptions for trade secrets and the like. But I do think a general assumption that it's right or proper for corporations to keep everything secret is harmful. Especially when it comes to economic facts. The whole point of a corporation is to limit the liability of its owners, that needs to come with a giant pile of transparency to make sure that they aren't abusing the privilege of having their liability limited in such a way.

I'd also like to see a maximum wage attached to any corporation that gets any grant, subsidy, tax break, or any other economic benefit from the government. If your company is doing so badly that it needs my tax dollars (or a tax break, or whatever) then it clearly isn't doing well enough to pay anyone, up to and including the CEO, total compensation (including stock, cars, life and health insurance, whatever) more than 12 times what the lowest paid person in the company is making. Any company that wants to pay its higher ranking people more than 12 times what the lowest paid make can bloody well do it without any tax breaks, grants, subsidies, or any other governmental assistance.
posted by sotonohito at 7:12 AM on April 13, 2017 [27 favorites]

How cartoonists are ridiculing Sean Spicer’s Hitler comments

Reporter: How do you answer for your gaffes and boneheaded historical analogies?

Spicer: What is this the NUREMBURG TRIALS??!

Brutal.
posted by zakur at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2017 [25 favorites]

Someone was a little starved for attention this morning. (I actually enjoy that the people on the tour largely don't seem to care that Trump is there.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

How about instead of just targeting Trump we simply make all tax returns public? Seriously, what's the problem with that?

Sounds good to me. Is there actually any information in an average person's tax return that isn't already available to commercial interests and anyone else who pays for access to the right databases? Even if there is, how much longer will mere commoners have any shred of privacy?

According to Wikipedia, in the 19th century federal tax filings were public records.
posted by XMLicious at 7:22 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Someone was a little starved for attention this morning.

End of the work week, I guess, not much for him to do.
posted by Artw at 7:26 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

How did I miss this bright spot in an otherwise gloomy week?

Former Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio is knocked down to size (WaPo)

WHAT A long time ago it seems that Joe Arpaio was known as “America’s toughest sheriff.”

In November, he was soundly defeated for reelection to the post he had held for 24 years in Arizona’s Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix. This week his successor announced the closure of one of Mr. Arpaio’s signature projects, a sprawling outdoor tent encampment where inmates, compelled to wear pink underwear and striped jumpsuits, were regularly used as backdrops for the sheriff’s boastful disquisitions to the media. And later this month, Mr. Arpaio, a Republican, goes on trial for criminal contempt in a racial profiling case.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:27 AM on April 13, 2017 [81 favorites]

He's not factually incorrect, Unfit for Work: The startling rise of disability in America.

The reason for the boom in SSDI is that Congress put a lifetime limit on welfare in 1996. Turns out this doesn't work in chronically depressed areas with major structural unemployment. Without SSDI filling the gap of permanent welfare and providing a quasi-basic income we would see hundreds of thousands of people starve.

This is why I'm fucking terrified Mulvaney is going to go after the SSDI side of the equation before the structural unemployment side of the equation. If they do manage to gut SSDI before getting all the other ducks in a row there will be human misery on a scale not seen since The Great Depression.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on April 13, 2017 [44 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump

I have great confidence that China will properly deal with North Korea. If they are unable to do so, the U.S., with its allies, will! U.S.A.

Things will work out fine between the U.S.A. and Russia. At the right time everyone will come to their senses & there will be lasting peace!

Thingswillworkoutfine.jpg

"At the right time everyone will come to their senses" is maybe the least confidence-inducing thing he's ever said.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:40 AM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

If employers could just look up tax returns before making an offer then the wage gap would be enshrined forever.
posted by winna at 7:51 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

How did I miss this bright spot in an otherwise gloomy week?

Former Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio is knocked down to size (WaPo)

Great article:

Maricopa County Sheriff Paul Penzone said the Tent City Jail started by his famous predecessor, Joe Arpaio, did not deter crime, was dangerous for guards and expensive to maintain.

...In announcing that the encampment would be closed, after 24 years, Mr. Arpaio’s successor, Paul Penzone, a Democrat, said, “Starting today, the circus ends, and the tents come down.”

I can tell you, as an Arizonan, that this has been an undimmed ray of sunshine for me in an otherwise cold and dreary political landscape these past six months.

His successor is not only getting rid of Tent City but also doing away with the ridiculous pink underwear, which never had a real penological purpose other than to serve as one more way for Birther Joe to humiliate the inmates.
posted by darkstar at 7:53 AM on April 13, 2017 [35 favorites]

I can't wait to see the turnout on Saturday for the tax marches.
posted by yoga at 7:53 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

Conversely if people could look up the tax returns of people working in similar industries and positions before asking for raises or accepting a job the wage gap would vanish overnight.
posted by sotonohito at 7:54 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

I guess it depends on whether there are more workers than jobs, or vice versa, as to who might benefit the most from public access to such information: employers or employees.
posted by darkstar at 7:57 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

It seems to work out pretty well in Sweden.
posted by sotonohito at 7:58 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Conversely if people could look up the tax returns of people working in similar industries and positions before asking for raises or accepting a job the wage gap would vanish overnight.

Information asymmetry doesn't disappear when the information is made more available, because one side will typically have more resources to interpret that information.
posted by Etrigan at 7:59 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”

Talez: This is fucking embarrassing. I wouldn't object to Republicans whining about apology tours so much if they didn't keep electing fuckers we have to apologize for.

Or, we find some comfort in the fact that he is recognizing what he doesn't know. In the oddly comforting words of Dubya*: presidents come in thinking one thing, then the pressures of the job or the realities of the world are different than you thought (NPR, audio-only interview at the moment, transcript up later today). The fact that he's recognizing that things are tougher than he expected and isn't trying to bluster and bluff thorugh everything gives me a glimmer of hope for him and our future conflicts. Yes, he's still a cowardly, self-centered, self-serving asshole, but he's not so lost in his own myth of greatness that he doesn't recognize new information that expands his understanding of situations.

* But don't worry, he's still capable of reminding you that he's not really the internet’s favourite grandpa, and still contains the war criminal we hated for eight years -- when asked if his new book, Portraits of Courage, in which he shares his oil paintings of veterans, contains something of him helping himself deal with the decisions he made. His reply? "Well, that's a good question. Not really, what's personal is my great pride and respect for our troops."

I know these men and women quite well. There is not an ounce of self-pity in their being. They need help. And so the book's purpose is to call attention to their courage, but also to the need to help them transition from the military life to civilian life. You know, as a matter of fact, getting to know them ... has been uplifting. And that's what this book is all about is honoring them.

You fucking asshole, you are the reason for our prolonged engagement in the Middle East, which is why we have so many vets struggling to return to the new normality of civilian life. Fucking tool. (And no surprise, there's no rebuttal or push-back from David Greene about Dubya's answer there.)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:00 AM on April 13, 2017 [24 favorites]

It seems to work out pretty well in Sweden.

Sweden has a 14 percent wage gap (one-page PDF) and has done far more than make tax returns public to address it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

presidents come in thinking one thing, then the pressures of the job or the realities of the world are different than you thought

Note: this is much more applicable to Presidents who came into the office as incurious idiots who didn't think or study too much about the job they were going to be taking on before they were elected.
posted by darkstar at 8:05 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

sotonohito: "It seems to work out pretty well in Sweden."

Yeah, but so does fermented herring, so not everything may be applicable.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:05 AM on April 13, 2017 [16 favorites]

U.S.-Led Strike Mistakenly Kills 18 Coalition Allies In Syria

Tuesday’s strike was requested by coalition allies who were on the ground near Tabqah, the United States Central Command, which oversees combat operations in the Middle East, said in a statement. The fighters had called in the airstrikes and “identified the target location as an ISIS fighting position,” it said, using another name for the Islamic State.

The Central Command statement said that the target location turned out to be a “fighting position” for the Syrian Democratic Forces, who have been fighting the Islamic State alongside the United States.

posted by vathek at 8:05 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Things will work out fine between the U.S.A. and Russia. At the right time everyone will come to their senses & there will be lasting peace!

I hope that the scriptwriters Donnie seems to assume are in charge somewhere understand what "the right time" means. Jesus, you're the fucking President - the right time for you to come to your senses was fucking months ago, shitheel.
posted by nubs at 8:07 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Deutsche Welle's Conflict Zone yesterday: How bad are US-Russian relations going to get? In English, an interview with Russian politician Konstantin Kosachev, Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Federation Council (upper legislative house of Russia) and a member of Putin's United Russia political party. He is also the head of Россотрудничество/Rossotrudnichestvo, the Russian equivalent of the USAID, the state-directed foreign aid organization.

Pretty much the responses you'd expect from an actually-competent politician/diplomat, but it's kind of satisfying how the interviewer Tim Sebastian, formerly of the BBC's HARDtalk, rubs his face in what a piece of shit Russia's buddy Assad is.
posted by XMLicious at 8:08 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Etrigan True, but information asymmetry is flat out guaranteed when one party is officially kept from having information and the other party has access to it.

We're currently in a situation where everyone but us knows how much we make and how much we pay in taxes. Giving us access to that data won't magically fix everything, but its the only step I can think of that will have any chance of helping the situation.

It's like security cameras and surveillance. The march of technology makes the widespread deployment of a security camera network inevitable. Laws prohibiting it will do nothing but make sure the cameras are deployed secretly by the NSA or whatever.

Given that the information will, inevitably, exist, the only fair or sensible approach is to demand that it be available to everyone. Open the public camera networks. Let us see through the cameras as well. Put cameras in the monitoring rooms the police use so we can literally watch the watchers.

There are reasonable restrictions you can argue for, but I think that if we had the general principle that public cameras are for the public things would be better. Yes, it's kind of creepy to know that absolutely anyone could be looking through the traffic camera, but is it really worse than knowing that only a tiny, self selecting, elite can look through the traffic cameras?

When information asymmetry exists you can't fix it with further restrictions, only by opening things up.
posted by sotonohito at 8:10 AM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

Spicer really wanted to call Assad worse than Hitler, but didn't want anyone to think through the specifics of how so. It is symptomatic of his attitude that he treats his job as one of apologetics. He doesn't explain the president's policies, he defends them.
posted by RobotHero at 8:27 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

Furthermore, once two evil, mass-murderous tyrants are assigned to the same burning circle of Hell, trying to parse which of them deserves to be there more is kind of gauche.

It's not like Pol Pot and Idi Amin are jockeying for who gets the extra annual cup of shaved ice or anything.
posted by darkstar at 8:41 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

He's not factually incorrect, Unfit for Work: The startling rise of disability in America.

agreed. what i found interesting about the NPR was the idea that "unable to continue working" is dependent upon "what work you can do". ie, back pain that makes it hard to stand is a disability when your only job prospects involve standing due to the employers in your area and your education. that makes total sense, but didn't occur to me until i had read it.

This is not even close to accurate, and I could go on for days about NPR's Koch-funded hit piece on SSDI, but instead I'll just direct you to other people who know what they're talking about:
An Open Letter from Former Commissioners of the Social Security Administration
Disability, Social Security, and the missing context
Misleading Trends with Benefits
Planet Money Misses the Boat on Social Security Disability
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 AM on April 13, 2017 [45 favorites]

Has this really not been linked here?
British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia — GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

Just another drip drip drip. But I think that its coming from external sources that can't be branded as partisan quite as easily might be a big factor — and strikes me as a specific strategy.

Wasn't a big deal made that Podesta's emails dripped out so that it stayed in the publics mind for a long time? I think that not only is that happening here with these leaks, but each leak makes the subject make a specific rebuttal claim, and then the next leak comes along to disprove that claim.
posted by Brainy at 8:43 AM on April 13, 2017 [18 favorites]

Good news for the almost-Arbys-scale industry that is coal: coal shipments are up, compared to this week last year

Five of the 10 carload commodity groups that Association of American Railroads (AAR) tracks weekly posted increases compared with the same week in 2016. Those included coal, up 29 percent to 75,078 carloads; grain, up 26 percent to 23,778 carloads; and nonmetallic minerals, up 7.6 percent to 37,582 carloads.

Courtesy of a railroad focused newsletter, which is hyper-focused on these shipping trends, week to week, which seems like madness unless you use these little dots on a graph to chart bigger movements. At a more macro level, Coal's forecast generation share rises from 30% in 2016 to 31% in both 2017 and 2018, from U.S. Energy Information Agency's Short-Term and Summer Fuels Outlook, due to higher expected natural gas prices decreasing natural gas purchases. But the next two years won't get above October 2015 volumes of US coal production, and that wasn't even the recent peak.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:44 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Furthermore, once two evil, mass-murderous tyrants are assigned to the same burning circle of Hell, trying to parse which of them deserves to be there more is kind of gauche.

Quoted for truth. It's like... Hitler murdered millions of people. Dylan Roof only murdered nine. But if you put Dylan Roof in a position to murder millions, he might very well do it. So it's not like he's necessarily a better person.

And Assad's got a death camp, but it's "only" killed one or two thousand people. He's gassed civilians, but again "only" a thousand and change (though about 400,000 civilians have died in the war all together, and half the population is now homeless or has fled the country.)

As far as I'm concerned, Spicer's mistake is not implying that someone like Assad might be worse than Hitler or just as bad. They are both at absolute zero on the human decency scale. Spicer's mistake was implying that Hitler didn't use chemical weapons, or if he did, didn't use them on "his own people." That's historically false, holocaust denial.

But let's not accidentally put ourselves in the position of defending Assad lest we somehow make Hitler look better by comparison. Assad has zero moral qualms about killing innocent people; Hitler had zero moral qualms about killing innocent people; Dylan Roof had zero moral qualms about killing innocent people... And zero equals zero. They're all as evil as it gets. They just had different opportunities to express that.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:55 AM on April 13, 2017 [30 favorites]

Meanwhile, in What Actual Billionaires Are Doing:

Warren Buffett's foundation will devote $90 million to supporting girls of color

The NoVo Foundation, established by the Omaha billionaire as a charitable trust, will devote $90 million over the next seven years to support young women and girls of color in the United States.

Peter Buffett and his wife Jennifer Buffett, will distribute the $90 million through the NoVo Foundation. The foundation, which works on advancing adolescent girls' rights, ending violence against girls and women, helping local economies, supporting indigenous communities, and researching social and emotional learning, first announced its $90 million commitment a year ago.

posted by Room 641-A at 9:12 AM on April 13, 2017 [36 favorites]

Is Bannon doomed? It hardly matters — Jeff Sessions is much better at white nationalism anyway
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:17 AM on April 13, 2017 [13 favorites]

Meet Trump's newest [proposed] economic adviser (CNN Money, April 10, 2017)

Trump tapped economist and tax expert Kevin Hassett to be the head of the White House Council of Economic Advisers in an announcement late Friday. The position has to go through a Senate confirmation. Hassett is a leading conservative expert on taxes. He's advised the presidential campaigns of John McCain, George W. Bush and Mitt Romney.

"If the Trump administration does a big push on tax reform, then I would expect Kevin to play a very large role," says Michael Strain, who has been a colleague of Hassett's for years at the American Enterprise Institute, a right-leaning think tank in Washington.

The appointment of Hassett has been praised in D.C., on Wall Street and in academic circles. He's seen as a moderate Republican who will align more with the Goldman Sachs crowd in the White House (Gary Cohn and Steve Mnuchin), not the hard-liners like Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro, who are known to support massive barriers on trade.

Trump said to pick Hassett to lead Council of Economic Advisers (Politico, Feb. 24, 2017)

The selection of Hassett, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and strong advocate for a corporate tax cut, would come after a long wait for the president to pick someone to lead an office that will play a key role in crafting economic projections for the administration’s tax and budget plans.

Hassett, if nominated and confirmed, would work closely with National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn as the administration rolls out its corporate tax reform proposal in the coming weeks and prepares a budget. Unlike in the Obama administration, the CEA chair will not be a member of the president’s Cabinet, which some view as reflecting Trump’s distaste for academic economists.

Choice of Pro-Immigration Economic Adviser Riles Trump’s Base (New York Times, April 12, 2017)

Like most economists, Mr. Hassett believes that immigration spurs economic growth. At times he has pilloried Republicans for becoming the “Party of White,” arguing in 2010 that Republicans like then-Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona “have too often appeared hostile to immigrants.” In 2013, Mr. Hassett said the United States should double its intake of immigrants.

Mr. Trump’s right-wing media supporters are also up in arms. Breitbart, the website that was formerly run by Stephen K. Bannon, the president’s chief political strategist, said Mr. Hassett’s appointment showed that the “corporatist, business-first” was muscling out the “populist, America-first” that got Mr. Trump elected. Commenters on the conservative website Infowars were similarly appalled, with some lamenting, “We have been sold a false bill of goods.”

Some leaders of the white nationalist “alt-right” movement also interpreted the move as a sellout. “This is yet another betrayal, just like breaking his promise to deport all illegal immigrants and to repeal President Obama’s executive amnesties,” said Jared Taylor, the editor of the online magazine American Renaissance, who spoke highly of Mr. Trump during the campaign.

Another shift from populist to capitalist. I wonder what Hassett thinks of Sessions, and what Hassett thinks of the Muslim ban, er "temporary travel ban."
posted by filthy light thief at 9:27 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

Remember the good old days of "Drain the swamp"?


Good times.
posted by darkstar at 9:32 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Now, it's more like "swamp the drain".
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:37 AM on April 13, 2017 [20 favorites]

Reminder: Today's episode of Spicey Time (TM) starts at 1pm EDT. Spicey Time is filmed before a live studio audience. YT link.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:38 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

I am reminded recently of this quote from Ubu Roi by Alfred Jarry:

"We shall not have succeeded in demolishing everything unless we demolish the ruins as well. But the only way I can see of doing that is to use them to put up a lot of fine, well-designed buildings."

Trump is Ubu.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:41 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

At least Hassett is strongly pro-immigration, so that could help clean out (or at least counter the effects of) the agressive racists and xenophobes who have infested the swamp. I'm OK with removing one invasive species at a time.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:42 AM on April 13, 2017

Point taken...but again, we find ourselves turning with hopeful faces to the Goldman Sachs power bloc for help.


Blerg.
posted by darkstar at 9:48 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

This is a terrifying surprise from CNN

Washington (CNN)The US military has dropped an enormous bomb in Afghanistan, according to four US military officials with direct knowledge of the mission.

A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, nicknamed MOAB, was dropped at 7 p.m. local time Thursday, the sources said.

posted by Brainy at 9:49 AM on April 13, 2017 [24 favorites]

Brian Williams must have just emitted a little gasp of passion.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:53 AM on April 13, 2017 [17 favorites]

Sky News used the phrase "Mother of All Bombs" (in quotes) and said that it was dropped on Islamic State targets in Afghanistan.
posted by XMLicious at 9:53 AM on April 13, 2017

The US military has dropped an enormous bomb in Afghanistan

Scary thought from Josh Marshall on Twitter:

We're pushing heavy brinksmanship with NK where the US would likely need to knock out very very heavily fortified facilities. Doubt this is a coincidence.
posted by diogenes at 9:54 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

MOABs are the most powerful non-nuclear weapons in our arsenal and unless I'm mistaken they've never before been used in the field. There is no more destruction one-upping he can do without lobbing a nuke. This is real bad.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:54 AM on April 13, 2017 [44 favorites]

Fuck. What on earth are we doing.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:55 AM on April 13, 2017 [18 favorites]

said that it was dropped on Islamic State targets in Afghanistan.

That's what they just said in Syria, and it turned out to be our allies.
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump reminds me of the spoiled sociopath, young Lord Robin Arryn, just itching to use his Moon Gate.

First it was the Tomahawks.

Then it was a MOAB.

How long before it's a nuke?


Mooncalves gonna moongate.
posted by darkstar at 9:56 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

He just became president again
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:56 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

Fuck. What on earth are we doing.

Figuratively showing off what a big, tough, macho, dominating alpha-dog our President thinks he is?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:57 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

MOABs are the most powerful non-nuclear weapons in our arsenal and unless I'm mistaken they've never before been used in the field. There is no more destruction one-upping he can do without lobbing a nuke.

I was just going to say this. It took him less than 100 days to drop our most powerful non-nuclear bomb.
posted by diogenes at 9:57 AM on April 13, 2017 [32 favorites]

Fuck. What on earth are we doing.

fulfilling his campaign promise to "bomb the shit out of them" i guess
posted by murphy slaw at 9:57 AM on April 13, 2017 [12 favorites]

This is why none of us could sleep on the night of November 8th.
posted by diogenes at 9:58 AM on April 13, 2017 [72 favorites]

Fuck. What on earth are we doing.

Saying "hey, North Korea, you're next."
posted by martin q blank at 9:59 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Shit. This is exactly what I feared. This whole country needs a B plan.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:00 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

The CNN article says the MOAB's target was an ISIS tunnel system but as the name states the MOAB is an airburst bomb rather then a penetrator and doesn't really work for that purpose. Maybe they're trying to play games with overpressure or something? It's kind of hard to see anything but oneupmanship at play with this. There are other weapons specifically for taking out underground targets. Who knows what aspect of the story is wrong at this point.
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:00 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

diogenes: I was just going to say this. It took him less than 100 days to drop our most powerful non-nuclear bomb.

We have a bomb that's bigger - the MOP (massive ordinance penetrator) - 30,000 lbs, to be used as a bunker buster.

Some other points:
The MOAB has never been used in combat before.
It has a ONE MILE BLAST RADIUS (Is this why it's never been used in combat? And why it's being used now with the loosening of Obama's guidelines?)
The media praise feedback loop seems to be pushing him towards bigger booms. After the MOP, only nukes are next.
posted by bluecore at 10:00 AM on April 13, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'm just wondering if Spicer's briefing will end up being censored today, what with the massive erection he'll walk out with at the prospect of talking about BIGGEST BOMB GOD SO BIG.
posted by lydhre at 10:00 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

It should be noted that one of the primary uses of the MOAB, and the Daisy Cutters before it, is psychological. There are other weapons as effective at any given task but none have the sheer psychological impact of these monsters. For good or ill.
posted by Justinian at 10:01 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

this scares the hell out of me because it drives home the point that trump has no understanding of the deterrent function of WMDs, which is where comments about "why do we have them if we don't use them?" about the nuclear arsenal come from

(personally i think deterrence and MAD are completely insane policies but they are a huge part of the justification given for building these weapons in the first place and failing to understand that is horrifying)
posted by murphy slaw at 10:01 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

Meanwhile, on CNN, panelist Jeffrey Lord unironically attempts to describe Trump as "the Martin Luther King of health care."

A deliberate distraction seems like it would be too calculated for this gang of incompetents and their sycophants, but WTF?
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:03 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

The talking head on MSNBC is saying that this is a large bomb but it was "precision".

LOL. Precision. Fucker has a blast radius of a mile. Precision. God help us.
posted by Justinian at 10:04 AM on April 13, 2017 [38 favorites]

PBS Frontline did an episode in 2015 on ISIS in Afghanistan (alternate link), which won a Peabody award last year.

Fox News is delighted right now, of course: "Saying there's a new sheriff in town, it's, it's not even..." "We now have military operations in six countries!" and they list off all the same countries we had military operations in under Obama.
posted by XMLicious at 10:05 AM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

A MOAB? An actual honest-to-god MOAB?

Fucking hell. There is no more ante to up, apart from... let's not go there. I guess Afghanistan is sorta nicely between Syria and NK, just to make sure.
posted by Devonian at 10:11 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

The MOAB featured in some brief Dubya-era propaganda, that I have distinct memories of some more rednecky chucklefuck coworkers practically yeehawing as they lapped it up. It's the kind of thing I bet the base remembered being very impressed by.

So there's some very thin reassurance that there's a non-zero chance it wasn't a demand for a nuke strike that was bargained down, but the result of an "ooh, remember that MOAB thing? Do we still have those? Can we can we?" "yes Donny." "Goody! Can I have cake now?" "Yes, Donny," situation.
posted by Drastic at 10:14 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

This wiki article says blast radius of 5000ft which is 0.947 miles. This means it could have a blast area of about 2.8 square miles. For comparison, the area of Manhattan is about 22.8 square miles. They can blow up the equivalent of over 1/10th of a Manhattan. This is insane!
posted by Green With You at 10:17 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

So we set off a MOAB as a show of force a few days before the North Koreans set off a nuke test? What is this, a dick-measuring contest?

What's that you say...?

Oh, that's exactly what it is?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:18 AM on April 13, 2017 [28 favorites]

United: this is the worst day ever
America: Hold my beer. On second thought, we won't be needing it.
posted by Yowser at 10:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

11 tons TNT explosive force.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:21 AM on April 13, 2017

One MOAB costs 16$ mil, and we only have 20 of them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:23 AM on April 13, 2017

Have, or had?
posted by filthy light thief at 10:25 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh FFS, i just realized that they timed it precisely so that it was the biggest news item before Spicey Time today.

and not that report in the Guardian.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 AM on April 13, 2017 [27 favorites]

Mar-A-Bombo
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:28 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

So is the President's new vice just firing munitions every time he's bummed about palace intrigue?

Remind me again why we wanted a teetotaler prez?
posted by ikea_femme at 10:29 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia — GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

The last paragraph of that article is huge (as flagged by Slate):

One source suggested the official investigation was making progress. “They now have specific concrete and corroborative evidence of collusion,” the source said. “This is between people in the Trump campaign and agents of [Russian] influence relating to the use of hacked material.”

That's an extraordinary statement. Like, grounds for impeachment.
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on April 13, 2017 [61 favorites]

Spicey pronounces Iran "err-ann", like he's never heard the word
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:31 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Spicer on cost-sharing subsidies for Obamacare: "It's not undecided. There is an ongoing discussion on that matter." Isn't that what undecided means?
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

That's an extraordinary statement. Like, grounds for impeachment.

True, but like the Slate article says:

It's only sort of a bombshell because, well, who is this one random source and why does he/she seem to be the only person anywhere who knows this potentially world-shaking information?
posted by diogenes at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

I really need to get that "B-B-But Her Emails" t-shirt printed up at some point.

You know, before all the t-shirt shops get bombed out of existence.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

I've been liking Susan Hennessy's insights on intelligence law, but I'm not liking her minimizing the dropping of this bomb.

Press is foolish to adopt "Trump used biggest bomb ever against ISIS!" narrative. The size of munition, first use not the relevant question.

It seems like dropping the biggest conventional bomb in history is worthy of inclusion in the narrative.
posted by diogenes at 10:38 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

North Korea's missles are underground. We just sent a demo tape to Kim Jong Un.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:38 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Many threads ago we were speculating on who Trump's Cheney was. (Bannon? Kushner? Roger Ailes? Roger Stone? Putin himself?)

I think "Jeff Sessions" is an answer that makes total sense.

Bannon once called Sessions his "mentor." Steven Miller was Sessions' aide.

Sessions was there at that Mayflower Hotel meeting that the Russian ambassador the Russian Ambassador Kislyak attended in April 2016, as the Russian hacking started, and before any leaks.

It's a mystery how Carter Page got onto the campaign. But to the extent that anyone will say anything, they say it had something to do with Jeff Sessions' staff.

Manfort and Sessions have known each other since the 70s...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:39 AM on April 13, 2017 [34 favorites]

Apparently, Buzzfeed has a Potato Spicer that airs at the same time as the press conferences (FB link)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

The CNN article says the MOAB's target was an ISIS tunnel system but as the name states the MOAB is an airburst bomb rather then a penetrator and doesn't really work for that purpose. Maybe they're trying to play games with overpressure or something?

Would that even work? Don't you need to get a thermobaric weapon into the bunker/tunnel system for it to work? Wouldn't a MOAB just defoliate the area and knock down walls within a couple hundred meters, like a Daisy Cutter on mild steroids?

"Most Powerful Weapon" is just silly. It's a ~20000 pound warhead that I would bet my car is way less effective or damaging than 10X2000 bombs or 400X500 pound bombs. It's almost certainly less damaging than a couple of passes from B-52's.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:43 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

It doesn't seem to be on their site yet, but BBC News just reported that there is a cholera epidemic in Somalia on top of the drought which was declared a couple of months ago. There's a famine in South Sudan too. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see if Trump is going to do something about those babies dying.
posted by XMLicious at 10:43 AM on April 13, 2017 [15 favorites]

Right, like I said you use the MOAB as a psychological weapon not because it's the best tool for the job.
posted by Justinian at 10:44 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spicer seems to be arguing today that lots of stuff is "complex" (Export-Import bank, China as a currency manipulator) and so he just won't talk about it. Nobody seems to care that he's ducking questions on stuff he's very much supposed to know about.
posted by zachlipton at 10:44 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

So is the President's new vice just firing munitions every time he's bummed about palace intrigue?

Well, the media got all hot and bothered the last time, so I expect there's some learning here about how well it distracts from other problems in addition to how it leads to fawning praise, because apparently blowing shit up is the only thing our media can see as leadership.
posted by nubs at 10:46 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

also he is like "that's complicated, i will leave that to the president to explain" and

i don't think that is going to work out
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on April 13, 2017 [13 favorites]

Spicey time has very few answers today- he's ducking every question on the wall, punishing senators, the bomb they just dropped, everything. It's a frustrating experience.
posted by Torosaurus at 10:46 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

So is Moab a big thing with millennialists? A quick check of the Old Testament has about a 180 references to Moab, then a kingdom about where Jordan is now, including some verses that sound like end day prophecies.

"A flame from the midst of Sihon, And shall devour the brow of Moab, The crown of the head of the sons of tumult." Jeremiah 48:45

“Yet I will bring back the captives of Moab In the latter days,” says the Lord. Thus far is the judgment of Moab." Jeremiah 48:47
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:46 AM on April 13, 2017

I'm pretty sure it's because they think it's the best weapon to raise his abysmal approval numbers, actually. So yes, psychological weapon used on the susceptible Republican base.
posted by lydhre at 10:47 AM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

MOAB is trump's washpot?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:47 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

Jinx, cjelli.
posted by lydhre at 10:48 AM on April 13, 2017

it seems like they've sent spicer out with extremely terse notes and vigorous instruction to not speak extemporaneously on any subject

which basically makes this exactly as useless as usual, and not even with any funny gaffes to cheer us up
posted by murphy slaw at 10:49 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

dances_with_sneeches: I think it's just a backronym from Mother Of All Bombs, I think the Moab part is just coincidence.
posted by jferg at 10:50 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

@BraddJaffy: Q: Trump’s flip on China currency manipulation? Spicer: “very, very complex issue, and I’m gonna leave it to the president to answer that”

@JohnJHarwood: Spicer, asked to explain Trump flip-flop on Ex-Im Bank: "let me get back to you. very complicated issue"

Anything about the Afghanistan strike he punted to the Pentagon. He walked off refusing to answer whether Trump even knew about the strike.

It's almost as if someone told him to say as little as possible.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

Shawn Spicer's Facebook profile:

Employment Status: It's Complicated.
posted by jferg at 10:52 AM on April 13, 2017 [30 favorites]

Politico: Trump dangles Obamacare payments to force Dems to the table

This week, though, the self-styled negotiator-in-chief stepped up to put the squeeze on Democrats, resulting in conflicting signals from his administration. On Monday, the Department of Health and Human Services suggested in a statement to The New York Times that the administration might continue the payments. On Tuesday, however, HHS condemned the report and said no decision has been made.

Two administration officials said the HHS rebuttal was personally ordered by an incensed Trump, who feared that the Times story hurt his negotiating position. Trump took the unusual step of calling HHS Secretary Tom Price to dictate a blistering statement that challenged the story and swiped at Democrats, one senior administration official said.

“We have not been contacted by Democrats to help save Obamacare, perhaps because they consider Obamacare to be a losing cause. Democrats need to help solve this failed Obamacare plan,” read the statement, which was attributed to HHS spokeswoman Alleigh Marré.

Insurance programs are going to run like hell from this level of chaos, and Trump is going to blame the Democrats for his own sabotage of Obamacare. Him personally calling Price to dictate a revised statement is amazing.
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 AM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Sydney Morning Harold: Spicer-ize my name: How White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer would say your name (from February)

Type in your name, and it will Spicerize it for you.

The White House Press Secretary's inability to speak words is so legendary it is being mocked by an Australian newspaper.
posted by zachlipton at 11:07 AM on April 13, 2017 [17 favorites]

@ezraklein: From Sen. Wyden: "There is no outcome in which the administration sabotaging insurance markets persuades Democrats to pass Trumpcare"

I hope so, as Greg Sargent points out, the threat is a "sick joke":

Missing from this explanation is why this would force Democrats to the table, and to what end he hopes this will occur. The basic problem is that Trump is asking Democrats to cooperate with him to bring about an outcome that would be worse than the one he is threatening them with.

The health-care bill Trump is championing would result in 24 million fewer people with health coverage. Those people are getting insurance both on the individual markets and through the Medicaid expansion, which would be phased out, resulting in 14 million fewer people on that program. But if Trump makes good on his threat to tank the individual markets, that might bump at least 10 million people from coverage, while leaving the Medicaid expansion in place (though it would do plenty of other damage as well). Thus, Trump is basically telling Democrats: “If you don’t give me the money, I’ll shoot only one hostage, rather than both of them.”

Trump wants Democrats to willingly buy in to a worse outcome than the one he is currently dangling as a threat. But if Democrats don’t play along, he’ll likely take the blame for the fallout. A recent Kaiser poll found that 75 percent of Americans want the Trump administration to make the law work, and 61 percent say that Trump and Republicans will be responsible for any problems they cause with it. To extend the hostage analogy, Trump is threatening to kill one of the hostages in a scenario which would leave only his fingerprints all over the murder weapon.

posted by zombieflanders at 11:08 AM on April 13, 2017 [53 favorites]

and Trump is going to blame the Democrats for his own sabotage of Obamacare.

Most people would see the Trump and the republicans responsible for health care to keep working:

@NateSilver538 - This is a *really* bad result for Trump if he's hoping to blame Democrats for subsequent problems with Obamacare.

From John Marshall:

What all of this amounts to is that Trump is threatening to torch more House Republicans in newly marginal seats. And he believes that inflicting electoral damage on Republicans will coerce Democrats into negotiating the repeal of their law. That really makes very little sense.

Of course, the damage Trump threatens to inflict on innocent Americans is real. But Democrats, already seeing the President weakened, must realize that holding tough and not breaking ranks is the best way to protect ordinary people from the President’s cruelty and wrath.

There’s a simple truth here. The President is not only flailing. He is unable to grasp the political reality he faces – indeed, the one he in many ways created – and is thus making nonsensical threats. He is essence putting a gun to House Republicans heads and telling Democrats, don’t make me do it. His threats are risible and thus counterproductive. Things will grow more chaotic and disordered than they already are.

posted by peeedro at 11:08 AM on April 13, 2017 [31 favorites]

Courtney Kube on MSNBC, saying that she has consulted some Pentagon contacts, reports that in Afghanistan they chose a non-penetrating/non-bunker-buster weapon to both clear surface structures and combatants and collapse underground tunnels at the same time.
posted by XMLicious at 11:11 AM on April 13, 2017

I realize it is a coincidence Moab and MOAB, but to millennialists there are no coincidences. I'm wondering if the millennial-minded Trumpistas are seeing this as something Biblical.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:13 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spicer seems to be arguing today that lots of stuff is "complex" (Export-Import bank, China as a currency manipulator) and so he just won't talk about it. Nobody seems to care that he's ducking questions on stuff he's very much supposed to know about.

CAPTAIN RENAULT: It is a little game we play. They put it on the bill ask me questions, I tear up the bill evade the questions. It is very convenient.

Also convenient for the press, if they wanted to do their job, is the fact that Spicer evading the question is an admission that the administration doesn't want to answer the question.
posted by Gelatin at 11:31 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

From the shouted questions as Spicer left, I think it's pretty clear that they do care

The jury is out on whether the press cares about getting their question answered, or merely being seen asking them on TV.

Shouting the question as he leaves suggests the latter -- what do they expect him to do, stop and answer the questions he's been avoiding during the actual press conference?
posted by Gelatin at 11:34 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

US anti-Semitism envoy’s office to remain empty, says former State Dept. official

According to the official, who spoke Thursday to JTA on the condition of anonymity, the anti-Semitism envoy’s staff will also be eliminated. A directive ending the employment of all the contractors in the Secretary’s bureau, the division of the State Department that houses the envoy’s office, will remove the three or four staff members working in the office. The directive is due to take effect later this month.
...
“There will be no one left to work on anti-Semitism within the anti-Semitism office,” the official said. “The work of the office will essentially end until they decide to rehire someone, and they don’t even have to do that.”

They're really doing Passover oh so wrong.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on April 13, 2017 [30 favorites]

"Punch Nazis" in Arabic t-shirt is the latest in alt-right resistance.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:38 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

Insurance programs are going to run like hell from this level of chaos, and Trump is going to blame the Democrats for his own sabotage of Obamacare. Him personally calling Price to dictate a revised statement is amazing.

Given that Trump is on record, admitting to the press, that he intends to hold the payments hostage as a negotiating tactic, it'll be a challenge for the media to see if they play along, perhaps with the tried-and-true-and-thoroughly-useless "he said, she said" storyline.
posted by Gelatin at 11:39 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

@ArmsControlWonk: Stop being weird about the 11-ton MOAB. For some perspective, here is a B-52 starting to drop 81 1,000 pound bombs.

I guess that's a valid point.
posted by diogenes at 11:43 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spicer on cost-sharing subsidies for Obamacare: "It's not undecided. There is an ongoing discussion on that matter." Isn't that what undecided means?

This is a really big problem because insurance companies have to submit their premium bids for 2018 in the next couple of weeks. Insurers need to know if they will get paid for the cost sharing subsidies in order to set prices correctly. Indecision will cause some to drop out of the market and others to raise prices unnecessarily to cover the uncertainty.

This isn't something that can be put off for "ongoing discussion". This needs to be decided right now or else cause chaos in Obamacare. What "ongoing discussion" is necessary? It's the current law. Just comply with it.

Trump wants to play "Rebel Without a Cause" chicken with Democrats with millions of lives at stake but he doesn't realize that the car is already going off the cliff.
posted by JackFlash at 11:45 AM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

> Given that Trump is on record, admitting to the press, that he intends to hold the payments hostage as a negotiating tactic, it'll be a challenge for the media to see if they play along, perhaps with the tried-and-true-and-thoroughly-useless "he said, she said" storyline.

I find myself fantasizing about a high-ranked Democrat clarifying the debate by responding to this threat with the simple statement "we don't negotiate with terrorists."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:47 AM on April 13, 2017 [46 favorites]

This needs to be decided right now or else cause chaos in Obamacare.

So if they don't decide, it causes chaos in Obamacare? I think I know what's going to happen.
posted by diogenes at 11:48 AM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm not saying that the entire press briefing system isn't deeply frustrating, but I don't understand the impetus behind blaming the journalists for Spicer's evasions.

Not for his evasions, but by their tacit acceptance of same, as I indicated by my paraphrasing the Claude Rains quote.

Rather than a bunch of them shouting questions at him as he left, I'd like to see at least the broadcast reporters turn to the camera and said "And here we see Press Secretary Sean Spicer once again avoiding reporters' questions, which raises the issue of what the Administration has to hide," and print journalists following up with much the same -- up to and including investigating what the administration does have to hide.

Which many of them are doing, yes, but you're right, this ritual is deeply frustrating, the more so as the power imbalance seems to favor the administration.
posted by Gelatin at 11:49 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Was this a cave system? Or man-made tunnels? My moral compass is wobbling. It's the difference between a few dozen villains hiding out in the Grand Canyon, so you bomb it, and bombing a remote subway system that only had villains in it.

I know enough about spelunking that no caves are alike and often have ecosystems that are so unique as to be considered alien. And they take millions of years to form but one human intervention to destroy. Especially with a big bomb.

If they're man-made, well, good job digging your grave. If they're natural caves, we've lost a natural wonder for the sake of killing a few dozen assholes.
posted by adept256 at 11:51 AM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

Who could have ever imagined his expert negotiation tactics are to walk out on the money he owes?
posted by cmfletcher at 11:52 AM on April 13, 2017 [24 favorites]

peeedro: What all of this amounts to is that Trump is threatening to torch more House Republicans in newly marginal seats. And he believes that inflicting electoral damage on Republicans will coerce Democrats into negotiating the repeal of their law. That really makes very little sense.
...
There’s a simple truth here. The President is not only flailing. He is unable to grasp the political reality he faces – indeed, the one he in many ways created – and is thus making nonsensical threats.

Or it's all a crazy Democratic false flag operation! Trump was an inside job! Next time, vote harder for True Republicans!

Sorry, I'm just giddy from the idea of "newly marginalized seats" - remember when 2018 looked dire? And now a historic 20 point swing doesn't sound so crazy!

I know, that requires Trump to keep being Trump, gerrymandering and voter blocking, intimidation and out-right purging to be checked, and resistance energy to persist for another 19 months (unless Trump plucks enough GOPers from house and senate seats to set up special elections that swing everything ahead of that schedule).

I'm hopeful, and I'm motivated. Let's do it.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:52 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

I find myself fantasizing about a high-ranked Democrat clarifying the debate by responding to this threat with the simple statement "we don't negotiate with terrorists."

Senator Wyden's got you covered: "We will not negotiate with hostage takers." [tweet w/ screencap of full statement]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:53 AM on April 13, 2017 [67 favorites]

@ArmsControlWonk: Stop being weird about the 11-ton MOAB. For some perspective, here is a B-52 starting to drop 81 1,000 pound bombs.

I guess that's a valid point.

Another valid point: These really are complicated issues that can't be explained in 140 characters or usually even in a storm of 140 character thoughts. There's a confluence of psychological and sociological threads that are intertwined and increasingly entangled as the cycle continues like, what the press says and what the Press Secretary doesn't say and North Korea and signalling and dick-measuring and weapon choice from a given arsenal and Syria and Israel and dog-wagging to make the treason go away and money and oil and it goes on

AND

All of that is totally 100% leaving out the fact that humans died under a rain of fire from the sky, senselessly, for nothing.
posted by carsonb at 11:53 AM on April 13, 2017 [27 favorites]

I find myself fantasizing about a high-ranked Democrat clarifying the debate by responding to this threat with the simple statement "we don't negotiate with terrorists."

I find myself fantasizing about a high-ranked Democrat (or Democrats!) calling a press conference to deliver a message like this:

DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSPERSON: Most Americans now see the ACA as the beneficial program it is, and don't want Republicans to take their health insurance away. By this reckless threat, President Trump is creating uncertainty in the markets right now. The Republicans might have failed so far to deprive Americans of their insurance by changing the law, but Trump might succeed with his rash words.

Predict the chaos, and make the prediction of consequences the official Democratic position. Then when even one insurance company pulls out, point to that and say "See?!"

Just like the Republicans did to attack Obamacare since its inception.
posted by Gelatin at 11:56 AM on April 13, 2017 [53 favorites]

humans died under a rain of fire from the sky, senselessly, for nothing.

I think that's likely. Has anything about the military context of the decision to bomb been reported yet, though?
posted by Coventry at 11:59 AM on April 13, 2017

(By the way, my guess is that Trump loses a lot more by presenting a bellicose demand that the Democrats help negotiate the destruction of their signature policy, and the Democrats flatly refusing. It makes Trump look weak, both by signalling that the Republicans don't have the votes and by having his bluff called by the hated Democrats.)
posted by Gelatin at 12:01 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

All of that is totally 100% leaving out the fact that humans died under a rain of fire from the sky

I wasn't trying to minimize it. It's just that I got caught up in the idea that this was a historic destructive event, and I'm learning that isn't accurate. It's still very bad in myriad ways.
posted by diogenes at 12:01 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

>> I find myself fantasizing about a high-ranked Democrat clarifying the debate by responding to this threat with the simple statement "we don't negotiate with terrorists."

> Senator Wyden's got you covered: "We will not negotiate with hostage takers."

Well, it's close. "terrorist" is more fun... but it's close.

Dang, Oregon. How come you're the West Coast state with the best senators? I mean, Murray, Cantwell, and Harris are pretty damn good, but Merkley and Wyden are great.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:02 PM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

remember when 2018 looked dire?

It's still not great for the Senate. But the House could go well.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:02 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

And, of course, the Talking Heads are (yet again) saying that *now* Trump is a Real President.

Heard of some gravesites, out by the highway.....
posted by thelonius at 12:08 PM on April 13, 2017 [20 favorites]

They're really doing Passover oh so wrong.

I dunno, they're doing pretty great at Passing Over every opportunity to treat Jewish people with respect. Plus Trump is totally the most believable Pesach pageant pharaoh since Yul Brynner.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:09 PM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

Dock their pay, arrest senators. Lawmakers propose punishment for missing budget deadlines

If Congress can't keep the government running, lawmakers' pay should be docked.

Or senators should be required to stick around the Capitol – and even face arrest – if they don’t stay to hammer out a resolution.

With the unlikely, but not impossible, specter of a government shutdown looming at the end of this month, lawmakers are floating various proposals that seek to inflict pain on themselves and their colleagues in a bid to avoid even a partial shuttering of the federal government.

Trump lets states block some Planned Parenthood money

-- Further chipping away at his predecessor's legacy, President Donald Trump signed legislation Thursday that lets states deny federal family planning money to Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers.

Trump's action erases a rule, finalized shortly before President Barack Obama left office in January, that said states could not block the money. It's the latest Obama regulation that Trump has overturned.

-- The rule tossed out by Trump required state and local governments to distribute federal dollars for family planning services, including contraception, sexually transmitted diseases, fertility, pregnancy care, and breast and cervical cancer screening, to qualified health providers, irrespective of whether the providers also performed abortions.

I know it isn't rational to be angry with Obama about this but he did a lot of things like this at the end of his term which has allowed the Repubs to undo them. It is a perfect storm situation. If he had done this just a few months earlier they would have been much harder to undo. Fuck.

Trump’s Secret Weapon Against Obama’s Legacy - Using an obscure law called the Congressional Review Act, the president and his allies in Congress are quietly wiping out parts of his predecessor’s regulatory regime.

And in a month or so—depending on the legislative calendar, the drop-dead date should be around May 9—the clock will run out on the CRA. At least until the next president.
posted by futz at 12:10 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

I know it isn't rational to be angry with Obama about this but he did a lot of things like this at the end of his term which has allowed the Repubs to undo them.

Obama did a lot of things, because they wouldn't have gotten done at all otherwise, through executive orders that can be easily tossed aside by the next administration.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:18 PM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

The enemy of my enemy is Assad, Putin, and Erdoğan, and the Kurds and...

Does anyone know how to make ten dimensional venn diagrams?
posted by adept256 at 12:19 PM on April 13, 2017

@civilrightsorg: Iowa GOP say their voter ID law is necessary to combat the “perception” of fraud: a perception created by – you guessed it – Republicans.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:21 PM on April 13, 2017 [57 favorites]

@civilrightsorg: Iowa GOP say their voter ID law is necessary to combat the “perception” of fraud: a perception created by – you guessed it – Republicans.

listen, we have to divert funds from education to buy Rocks that Keep Tigers Away because all of our constituents are really scared about tigers since we ran on a platform of Oh Shit, Tigers for the last 20 years
posted by murphy slaw at 12:24 PM on April 13, 2017 [52 favorites]

Mod note: A comment removed, please just skip trotting out variations on "tard", I don't care if you're caricaturing its shitty use by shitty people. More generally, "here's what some shitty randos on the internet are up to" doesn't really improve things a good 99% of the time and this isn't an exception.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:25 PM on April 13, 2017 [18 favorites]

Obstruct him until he fails. Make it too hard to achieve anything. Ask him to move to the center and we'll move too. We'll move right is the punchline. Blaming Obama is the kicker to the punchline.
posted by adept256 at 12:26 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

@civilrightsorg: Iowa GOP say their voter ID law is necessary to combat the “perception” of fraud: a perception created by – you guessed it – Republicans.

I doubt Judge Richard Posner*, among others, is going to accept an argument that restricting minorities from voters is justified by the perception by whites that it's harder for minorities to vote.

*Posner, though a smart man, unfortunately upheld Indiana's odious voter-ID law, but he has gone on record saying he was basically fooled by the state's claims that it was a necessary tool against fraud and has viewed many conservative claims all the more skeptically since.
posted by Gelatin at 12:26 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

I know it's not worth the time to keep going on the MOAB, but I can't get over this:

> they chose a non-penetrating/non-bunker-buster weapon to both clear surface structures and combatants and collapse underground tunnels at the same time.

"Clearing combatants" is really an A+ euphemism, right up there with the "re-accommodation" of the United passenger.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:29 PM on April 13, 2017 [29 favorites]

WaPo: GAO launches probe of Trump transition

In a letter dated April 5, the independent, nonpartisan Government Accountability Office (GAO) told Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) that it would undertake the probe.

The investigation will focus on four major areas of interest, a GAO official wrote: federal ethics guidelines that governed Trump’s transition; the financial operation behind the effort, including expenditures by the government; conflicts of interest and financial-disclosure rules; and how the transition arranged phone calls and other contact with heads of foreign governments.

posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:29 PM on April 13, 2017 [38 favorites]

re Iowa-ID law:

 There’s also a stark racial disparity—in Waterloo’s Black Hawk County, for example, “African-Americans make up 27 percent of voting-age residents who lack an Iowa driver’s license, but only 10 percent of all voting-age residents,” according to the ACLU. In addition, the law “effectively ends” Iowa’s popular system of Election Day registration for those without voter-ID. “That’s because for those people who don’t pre-register 11 days before the election and who don’t have one of the three forms of ID, they won’t be able to get a ‘free ID’ mailed to them in time.” (In addition to voter ID, the bill also cut early voting and banned straight-ticket voting.)
posted by H. Roark at 12:29 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Obstruct him until he fails. Make it too hard to achieve anything. Ask him to move to the center and we'll move too. We'll move right is the punchline.

did you mean "left" here or am i badly failing to grasp your thesis?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Matt Taibbi: For White America, It's 'Happy Days' Again: Jeff Sessions rolls the clock back on civil rights enforcement
posted by homunculus at 12:34 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

aren't really any tools available to reporters to force an answer in this setting.

Repeating the question no matter who's called? That's asking a lot from very well-connected journalists but

And, of course, the Talking Heads are (yet again) saying that *now* Trump is a Real President.

Five months ago, corporate news' horse-race policy drove America into a ditch. This is *after* two unnecessary wars and a financial meltdown they cheered for. Fuck the sucker clucking pundits, it's all Fox News.

Sorry, I'm just giddy from the idea of "newly marginalized seats" - remember when 2018 looked dire? And now a historic 20 point swing doesn't sound so crazy!

Which is why people are mad about The Kansas Abandonment. We're not in Kansas anymore.
posted by petebest at 12:36 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does anyone know how close to an election donations are still useful? I was going to make one to Ossoff but am not sure if it's too late...
posted by The Shoodoonoof at 12:36 PM on April 13, 2017

It's not remotely too late -- even though the election is the 18th, there will almost certainly be a runoff between Ossof and $REPUBLICAN on 20 June.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:39 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

They're really doing Passover oh so wrong.

Passohmygodwhataretheygoingtofuckupnext?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:44 PM on April 13, 2017

"At the right time everyone will come to their senses" is maybe the least confidence-inducing thing he's ever said.

Maybe because his existence is a competent rebuttal?
posted by notsnot at 12:47 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

Dang, Oregon. How come you're the West Coast state with the best senators? I mean, Murray, Cantwell, and Harris are pretty damn good, but Merkley and Wyden are great.

How can we get rid of Feinstein? There is a slot here for a great Senator and instead it's filled by an anti-encryption, anti-marijuana, anti-Net Neutrality Trump appeaser in bed with the entertainment industry.
posted by contraption at 12:49 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

Insurance programs are going to run like hell from this level of chaos, and Trump is going to blame the Democrats for his own sabotage of Obamacare. Him personally calling Price to dictate a revised statement is amazing.

That's not what insurance companies do. What they will do is call up their reps and say "Remember how much I donated to your campaign? Fix this so we make lots of money or I fund your opponents next year."
posted by srboisvert at 12:50 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Still thinking about this "Jeff Sessions is the power behind the throne" idea...

Arguing in favor of that, in addition to the links I mentioned above to Bannon, Miller, Manafort, Page(?), and Kislyak, there's the fact that he has been with the campaign from the very beginning and picked a lot of the staff for both the campaign and the administration...

"[Trump] cultivated a relationship, giving Sessions $2,000 for his 2014 reelection even though the senator had no Democratic opponent.
...
In May 2015, Nunberg said, he reached out to Miller, then an adviser to Sessions, to arrange a phone call between Trump and the senator.
...
The next month, Trump declared his candidacy. In August of that year, Sessions joined Trump at a mega-rally in the senator’s home town"

And there are additional links between Sessions and key campaign staff. From that same NYT article:

"The tactician turning Trump’s agenda into law is deputy chief of staff Rick Dearborn, Sessions’s longtime chief of staff in the Senate.
[...]
Then there is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, who considers Sessions a savant and forged a bond with the senator while orchestrating Trump’s trip last summer to Mexico City and during the darkest days of the campaign."

I guess, not to be coy, I'm starting to suspect that the Trump campaign might have been something Sessions and Manafort, old friends, cooked up between them and brought their buddies on to help manage. Sessions bringing his American buddies like Bannon and Miller, and Manfort bringing his Russian buddies like Guccifer2.0. Trump could have been their perfect frontman, because of his celebrity status in the US, and his long history with Russian oligarchs, who had reason to believe they could trust and/or control him.

This is a hypothetical scenario at this point, but fits the available evidence, I think.

I'm sure I'm not to only person to notice these connections, but if someone in the FBI has noticed, their job is complicated by the fact that they report to Jeff Sessions.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:54 PM on April 13, 2017 [38 favorites]

If Congress can't keep the government running, lawmakers' pay should be docked.

That ought to really hit all those legally allowed to insider trade millionaires right where it doesn't hurt at all.

The only congress members who will be hurt by this are the ones with integrity.
posted by srboisvert at 12:54 PM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump’s threat prompts Democrats to play hardball over Obamacare payments

Pelosi and Schumer say they are going to attach the cost-sharing reduction payments to the spending bill. Congress comes back and they have four days to pass a bill before the government shuts down on April 28. This, um, could get interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 12:55 PM on April 13, 2017 [31 favorites]

This, um, could get interesting.

Yeah, because the Freedom Caucus -- or potential primary challengers -- could, and probably would, interpret it as a vote for the ACA.
posted by Gelatin at 12:59 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

How can we get rid of Feinstein? There is a slot here for a great Senator and instead it's filled by an anti-encryption, anti-marijuana, anti-Net Neutrality Trump appeaser in bed with the entertainment industry.

Are you in California? Call Ted Lieu's office tell him he has your vote if he runs.

Also, new today: LIEU, BEYER, HOUSE DEMOCRATS CALL FOR SUSPENSION OF JARED KUSHNER'S SECURITY CLEARANCE FOR FAILING TO DISCLOSE MEETINGS WITH FOREIGN OFFICIALS

(Sorry about the caps but I'm not retyping that on my phone.)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:59 PM on April 13, 2017 [58 favorites]

i just realized that i might not be able to identify the moment when the administration starts to collapse because who can tell when the Everburning Tire Fire Warehouse actually starts to burn down?
posted by murphy slaw at 1:07 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

who can tell when the Everburning Tire Fire Warehouse actually starts to burn down?

It will be when all the pyrotechnics start exploding out in all directions.
posted by contraption at 1:11 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Obstruct him until he fails. Make it too hard to achieve anything. Ask him to move to the center and we'll move too. We'll move right is the punchline.

did you mean "left" here or am i badly failing to grasp your thesis?

Sorry for being a little vague. I was referring to the 8 year long Republican strategy of asking Obama to meet them in the middle, then refusing any consensus and accusing him of failure. An ironic, yet not amusing, renewal of this strategy is evident in the 'freedom caucus' forming a voting bloc to prevent the repeal of of Obamacare. If you like grim comedy, I suppose you can have a dark laugh that now they control the three branches, the only people they can turn such political disingenuousness towards is their own comrades.
posted by adept256 at 1:15 PM on April 13, 2017

> Also, new today: LIEU, BEYER, HOUSE DEMOCRATS CALL FOR SUSPENSION OF JARED KUSHNER'S SECURITY CLEARANCE FOR FAILING TO DISCLOSE MEETINGS WITH FOREIGN OFFICIALS

(Sorry about the caps but I'm not retyping that on my phone.)

Nah there's no need to apologize for caps when talking about the trump administration. I mean, if this mess isn't a crockety bloat I don't know what is.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:21 PM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

LA Times: Rust, mold, parasites: Trump's Mar-a-Lago cited for 78 health violations in the past three years
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:26 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

Fuck. What on earth are we doing.

Perhaps it's not about Earth. Since this coincides with NASA's announcement today, I have to assume that Trump is trying to intimidate the merlings of Enceladus.
posted by homunculus at 1:27 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

McMaster wants US troops in Syria, this is why separation of civilian command is a good thing. DoD knows now Trump will alway sign off on any military attacks, and he's too stupid and/or senile to pushback.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:27 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

(also uhh I want to retract a thing I said a little while back about Oregon having the best senators. I realized in retrospect that I was saying that the two men from Oregon were great and the three women from California and Washington only "damn good." Which isn't fair at all — like, I would jump at the chance to vote for Harris or Murray for President, but I think neither of the Oregon Senators would be right for the job.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:27 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

witchen: "I disagree and I would love to read some sane news and opinions and analysis here about the MOAB and our president's uses of force. It's a big deal and a lot of people are scared. And (speaking for myself here) eager to learn more about why this is not such a big deal or why it is catastrophically bad or where it lands in the middle."

I think that the point that some people are trying to make is that the MOAB is not particularly interesting in a purely military context: we are and have been taking military actions against ISIS for a very long time, and from an ordnance standpoint, dropping one MOAB is just as interesting as dropping a lot of smaller bombs at once.

So in that context: the US continues to kill people for ill-defined reasons in the Middle East, which is pretty dog-bites-man unfortunately.

On the other hand, the political context here is, well, alarming to say the least. However, I don't think anyone can qualify how alarming, because the current WH is obviously quite frenetic. All we do know is that we have a very likely senile man who seems to be increasing the destructive power he throws around easily; a narcissist for whom military action is the only thing that unreservedly assuaged his terrible (self-inflicted) alienation from the world. (Thanks CNN!)

Anyways, I heartily disagree with the dismissals that I've seen, which are perhaps correct in a narrow aspect but miss the larger picture.
posted by TypographicalError at 1:34 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yeah, Trump's brain operates in terms of very simple symbols that don't necessarily bear any connection to reality. Same goes for everyone around him. The military usefulness of the MOAB is irrelevant; the symbolic meaning is "I am going to drop the biggest bomb I have, except for nukes, and if you don't do what I say I'll drop a nuke too."

This message is not intended for anyone in Syria; Trump doesn't care about Syria; Trump is on record as having forgotten that he was bombing Syria rather than Iraq. The message is primarily intended for the American news media and the U.S. legislative branch, with Xi as a secondary recipient.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:48 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

What's the right dessert to pair with dropping a MOAB? Cheesecake? Ice cream? What flavor?
posted by scalefree at 1:49 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

> What's the right dessert to pair with dropping a MOAB? Cheesecake? Ice cream? What flavor?

the most beautiful chocolate cake you've ever seen and countless rails of cocaine.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:51 PM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh great! Nothing like a little double dipping of taxpayer cashola: Those tunnels we bombed? We fucking paid for them. And the damn $314,000,000 MOAB.

Its miles of tunnels, bunkers and base camps, dug deeply into the steep rock walls, had been part of a C.I.A.-financed complex built for the mujahedeen.

via Snowden.
posted by yoga at 1:54 PM on April 13, 2017 [21 favorites]

the most beautiful chocolate cake in the world and countless rails of cocaine.

Can there be more cocaine?
*snkf*
posted by petebest at 1:54 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

Much too solemn an occasion for cake. I was thinking perhaps a light fruit sherbet.
posted by scalefree at 1:57 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump’s Non-Transformation (Jeffrey Frank - New Yorker, April 13, 2017)

It’s astonishing, isn’t it, how suddenly Donald J. Trump is being viewed, in certain precincts, as—what’s the word?—yes, “Presidential,” and all it took was for him to issue an order to launch fifty-nine cruise missiles against a Syrian airbase. It’s as if a national-amnesia button got pushed, one able to wipe out memories of the actual President: the former reality-show star, real-estate brander, double-talker, and serial distorter of reality.
...
Those whose memories are intact remember another resolute Trump, the one who, a few days before the November election, spoke at a rally in Miami, Florida, and said, “Hillary”—the former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton—“brought disaster to Iraq and Syria and Libya. . . . Now she wants to start a shooting war in Syria in conflict with nuclear-armed Russia. Frankly, it could lead to World War III, and she has no sense.” He expressed such thoughts many times.
...
Mattis, who is not averse to words, is no doubt familiar with the career of General J. Lawton (Lightning Joe) Collins, the celebrated Army Chief of Staff during the Korean War. In his book “War in Peacetime,” published in 1969, Collins discussed Korea, and its lessons, writing, “We rushed into Korea with no advance planning, and we stumbled into the ground war in Vietnam with uncertain footing. In neither case did we have any fully thought-out ideas concerning our objectives or the means we would be willing to expend to attain them. As each situation arose we extemporized, unsure what the next step would be, until we were far more committed than we had expected to be.” Our best soldiers never forget that sort of lesson.

The piece then ends by comparing Trump to "another erratic world figure, the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, who also seems capable of acting in extremes, without warning, at any time, and at any level of incitement," and raises the fear of "nuclear miscalculation."
posted by filthy light thief at 1:57 PM on April 13, 2017 [33 favorites]

Yeah, Trump's brain operates in terms of very simple symbols that don't necessarily bear any connection to reality.

The stability of international diplomacy may become unhinged when he discovers emoji.
posted by adept256 at 1:57 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

> Those tunnels we bombed? We fucking paid for them. And the damn $314,000,000 MOAB.

You lot, dig holes. You lot, fill them up. It's a trillion dollar public works program! Hooray!

(In my tiny corner of the world, we're bracing to shut down the world's largest radio telescope because the NSF can't scrape together 7 million dollars per year to keep the lights on. But we've got plenty for cruise missiles and MOABs and golfing trips and Mar-a-fuckyou expenses, I guess.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:00 PM on April 13, 2017 [48 favorites]

The newest Alex Jones Channel youtube video is 1 minute and 30 seconds long. It is titled "Trump Is Like A Good Boss Hogg." Here's the full transcript. Over half of it is about Alex Jones's pants. I have nothing else to say.

"You know what, Trump is like a good Boss Hogg. But he doesn't want to see the village poor. He made his money in hospitality and service industries. And he knows the economy's in the crapper. Trump doesn't want to release his tax returns the last few years because there weren't much money made. [clicks pen] Country's falling apart. And now restaurant visits are up like 60% I was reading, all this other good stuff's happening. Retail - because everybody buys stuff online - I went to the mall to buy some dress slacks last weekend with my children and I was there on a Saturday and it was empty. There were more customer service people there than there were people and they were so demoralized they wouldn't even give me service. They were like 'oh we don't have those slacks' and I was like digging around and here they are, and I was like 'You know what, I'm out of here. I got enough slacks.' I really don't have enough slacks. These are blue jeans when I'm on the air. I need some slacks, I need 5 or 6 pairs. I got like 10 pairs but some are like 8 or 9 years old they're getting holes in them and stuff. Anyway you love pants you've had for 10 years, but they gotta go, they gotta go to goodwill, they gotta go in the trash, they gotta get burned in the incinerator."

[cut to "Infowars.com: You are the Resistance!]
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:02 PM on April 13, 2017 [15 favorites]

Donald Trump Jr. mocked the struggles of LGBT students on Twitter - over opposition to a Chick-fil-A at Duquesne. Five years ago, when Northeastern proposed letting Chick-fil-A in, the move was opposed not just by students but by the mayor of Boston. Outcome: Boston is still Chick-fil-A-free.
posted by adamg at 2:04 PM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

Anyway you love pants you've had for 10 years, but they gotta go, they gotta go to goodwill, they gotta go in the trash, they gotta get burned in the incinerator."

I really hope he was crying by the time he got to that part.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:04 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump is reminiscent of Boss Hogg, yes.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

note: although the symbolic meaning of the MOAB is clear, as is the intended recipient, the news media has a moral responsibility to publicly refuse to hear the message he's trying to send; to talk about this operation purely in terms of its military effectiveness, with as many wonky details as humanly possible, and to continually reinterpret anything the administration may say about the aesthetic pleasures of large bombs to be instead about comparatively boring discussions of military strategy and tactics. Without even once acknowledging the attempted use of symbolism. This is because the man himself is watching, always, and no responsible reporter, journalist, or talking head should ever let him view discussions of warfare that take place on his preferred symbolic terms.

The stimulus he's looking for when he goes to war is worship from his followers, awe from the reporters, and fear from everyone else. The stimulus he needs to receive is boredom; a sense that war is something like health care reform, something filled with all these tedious fiddly little details that no one can be expected to get right, just a huge complicated mess that's no fun at all and that any sensible stimulus-response machine would walk away from.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:09 PM on April 13, 2017 [42 favorites]

Goodwill? What, so poor people can have them?
posted by contraption at 2:09 PM on April 13, 2017

> Goodwill? What, so poor people can have them?

Alternative slacks.
posted by mosk at 2:11 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Don't tell me who's Roscoe Beaureg- er, P. Coletrane. You'll ruin it.
posted by petebest at 2:12 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

"What we couldn’t see at the time is that politics is a long game.... Yes, the true loyalists of Ford Nation still adore him, and many voted for his brother, but his appeal to a broader base of small-government conservatives was gone. It hadn’t vanished overnight in a sudden, dramatic revelation that forced Ford from office. It built over each story, eroding Ford’s appeal bit by bit, until at least some of the voters who put him into office were ashamed to admit they’d done so and did what they could to right their mistake."

"What Toronto Knows About Trump After Living Through Rob Ford", David Sax, writing for The New Yorker, April 13, 2017.

I'd say there's truth in that, and there are obvious parallels to the Trump administration. It will take time for people to gradually see the light, and some never will see it, but Trump's support will slowly yet surely erode. I don't believe he can win a second election -- he won this one by tiny strategically placed margins. It's a maddeningly frustrating situation for the many of us who want him gone yesterday and for all those who will suffer from his ignorant, incompetent decisions, but it is some comfort that he will not be in office longer than four years at the outside.
posted by orange swan at 2:21 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

I wasn't trying to minimize it. It's just that I got caught up in the idea that this was a historic destructive event, and I'm learning that isn't accurate.

Given that this is a weapon designed 15 years ago and this is the first president and the first time in history it has been used, well, that's historic.

"During the final stages of testing in 2003, military officials told CNN that the MOAB was mainly conceived as a weapon employed for "psychological operations." There might be a reason that the military affectionately calls it the Mother Of All Bombs.

So a few days ago people here were trying to explain Assad's reasoning for using gas rather ineffectively as for "psychological operations." Too bad. If he had a MOAB he could have used it instead and it wouldn't have been a "historic event."
posted by JackFlash at 2:30 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

LA Times: Rust, mold, parasites: Trump's Mar-a-Lago cited for 78 health violations in the past three years

Dammit!, if oligarchs are dining on rust, mold and parasites then this will weaken my argument in favor of regulations.
posted by srboisvert at 2:30 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

The ADL is offering to conduct a Holocaust education session at the White House. Personally, I think they should all field trip over to the Holocaust Museum, it's not far away, and take a tour, but they could do both too.
posted by zachlipton at 2:32 PM on April 13, 2017 [20 favorites]

Don't tell me who's Roscoe Beaureg- er, P. Coletrane.

Spicey, obvs.

Beats all you ever saw.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:36 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

I nominate Bernie Sanders for the role of Uncle Jesse.
posted by orange swan at 2:41 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

>Insurance programs are going to run like hell from this level of chaos

>That's not what insurance companies do. What they will do is call up their reps and say "Remember how much I donated to your campaign? Fix this so we make lots of money or I fund your opponents next year."

Don't expect insurance companies to fight this for you. They have very little at stake here. The Obamacare individual insurance market is quite tiny. The real money is in employer and group insurance.

So far most insurance companies have either lost money or barely broken even on Obamacare. How can you tell? Well, the law requires insurance companies to refund to customers any premiums in excess of the 20% they are allowed as overhead expenses plus profit. Anyone here get a refund check? I got one back in 2013 before the Obamacare exchanges were set up but nothing since.

You can expect insurance companies to threaten to pull out of the exchanges if Trump doesn't clear things up, but you won't see them put up much of a fight. It just isn't a very profitable market and the hassles aren't worth it.

You and Democrats are going to have to fight this battle alone.
posted by JackFlash at 2:43 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

I nominate Bernie Sanders for the role of Uncle Jesse.

SHIT if we had spun up a fake news counter-operation saying that Bernie ran moonshine during the Great Depression we probably could have gotten all of the Trumpistas to vote Democratic.
posted by XMLicious at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

RedOrGreen: But we've got plenty for cruise missiles and MOABs and golfing trips and Mar-a-fuckyou expenses, I guess.

Don't forget the cost to protect DeVos, which is nothing compared to the cost for secret security staff to act as Bad Ass Business Men props when the Trump Boys jaunt around the world for private financial dealings. Of course, for the latter, the little Trumps could pay for their own security and probably write it off as a business expense for taxes, but then you don't get to give your business partners the impression that they're dealing with the corrupt nepotism might and power of the United States.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

“D.C.'s war madness,” Damon Linker, The Week, 11 April 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 3:14 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Folks, the single-link-Twitter thing is one we've specifically asked people not to do, and that goes double for unconfirmed rumors. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 3:32 PM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]

U.S. May Launch Strike If North Korea Reaches For Nuclear Trigger

The U.S. is prepared to launch a preemptive strike with conventional weapons against North Korea should officials become convinced that North Korea is about to follow through with a nuclear weapons test, multiple senior U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News.

posted by zachlipton at 3:38 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Everyone reading twitter right now.
posted by Justinian at 3:39 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

“D.C.'s war madness,” Damon Linker, The Week, 11 April 2017

I'm sure there won't be any ground war. It's not like everyone gave him a cookie when he blew over a hundred million dollars worth of hardware in a pointless strike.

What's that? They did? Shit...
posted by Talez at 3:40 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Sydney Morning Harold: Spicer-ize my name: How White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer would say your name (from February)

From about a hundred comments back. My last name is obviously Jewish and that it was Spicerized into Golem was a nice touch. Not that I expect Spicer to know anything about Golems in real life, but I was, entirely within reason, expecting my name to literally come back as FirstName Jew.
posted by Ruki at 3:43 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Emphasis mine:

Trump’s Wall: How Much Money Does the Government Have For It Now?
$20 million. That’s enough to cover the cost of seven miles of wall.

That amount of cash would not go very far to build a real wall — existing fence along the border costs roughly $2.8 million per mile.

Instead, the agency plans to spend the money on eight model walls, planning, engineering and early-stage land acquisition.

posted by Room 641-A at 3:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can't imagine that the South Korean government or military leadership would sign off on an attack on North Korean soil in response to a nuclear test; but it's unclear whether Trump is really willing to give South Korea a veto in this or not.

"It'll be great for them believe me!"
posted by Talez at 3:52 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

"What have they got to lose?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:53 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

U.S. May Launch Strike If North Korea Reaches For Nuclear Trigger

JMFC, this is dangerous.

The danger of such an attack by the U.S. is that it could provoke the volatile and unpredictable North Korean regime to launch its own blistering attack on its southern neighbor.

Ya think?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

GOP Candidate Loses Party’s Support After Telling Woman ‘You Should F**k Me’

A Republican running for a seat in the New Jersey General Assembly has lost GOP support after a video surfaced of him hitting on a woman, according to Politico.

Brian McDowell, a former contestant on NBC’s “The Apprentice” who just filed a petition to run for office last month, was caught on tape asking a woman to sleep with him, slurring his words as he spoke.

“Let me tell you right now. You should fuck me. It would really be good,” McDowell says in the video. “Listen, you never know.”

The footage prompted Cape May County Republicans to pull their support of his campaign, Politico reported. McDowell told the outlet he won’t end his campaign because of the video.

“There are human errors and even Jesus dropped the cross three times,” McDowell said. “I’m not running to be the pope. I’m running to make New Jersey more affordable.”

lolololol
posted by futz at 3:55 PM on April 13, 2017 [40 favorites]

It's a good thing South Korean has a strong and experienced government in place right now to help moderate unfettered US militarism in their back yard. Wait.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:56 PM on April 13, 2017 [18 favorites]

even a conventional attack across the DMZ

this is the real scenario to be afraid of - NK is far from being likely to launch a successful nuclear attack, but their very real bargaining chip has always been the ability to drop a million pounds of shells on Seoul from behind the DMZ at the drop of a hat.
posted by murphy slaw at 3:58 PM on April 13, 2017 [12 favorites]

Imagine you're Paul Ryan, you've been wet dreaming of tax cuts for billionaires every single night since that first magical night fondling Atlas Shrugged by flashlight under the blankets at 1am, and finally at long last you're about to achieve completion, only to have Donald Trump restart to Korean War instead.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:01 PM on April 13, 2017 [25 favorites]

I don't see anything resembling a strategy here. We're signaling "do this thing you've done a bunch of times again, and we'll attack you." So if North Korea goes ahead and does a test now, we either attack and start god knows what, or we do nothing, and our threat was meaningless.
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on April 13, 2017 [14 favorites]

I don't see anything resembling a strategy here.

The Trump Doctrine!
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:05 PM on April 13, 2017 [26 favorites]

Whistler - Carl, what else you got? - National power grid?

Carl - Okay.

Mother - Probing.

Whistler - Anybody want to black out New England? Carl, what else?

Carl - Air traffic control system.

Anyone want to restart the Korean War?
posted by Existential Dread at 4:06 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

David Lightman: How about Global Thermonuclear War?

Joshua: Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?
posted by Justinian at 4:12 PM on April 13, 2017 [12 favorites]

0PERATI0N NUK0REA.

Previously.
posted by homunculus at 4:13 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]

“There are human errors and even Jesus dropped the cross three times,” McDowell said. “I’m not running to be the pope. I’m running to make New Jersey more affordable.”

The guy's a pig, but he deserves some kind of award for the most elegantly passive-aggressive, Christianist, libertarian non-apology ever composed.
posted by vverse23 at 4:17 PM on April 13, 2017 [38 favorites]

GOP rep: ‘Bullcrap’ to say taxpayers pay my salary

Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.) faced off with constituents at a town hall this week, telling the members of the audience that they don't pay his salary.

"You say you pay for me to do this? That’s bullcrap," Mullin said at the town hall in Jay, Okla., according to a video of the incident.

"I pay for myself. I paid enough taxes before I got here and continue to through my company to pay my own salary. This is a service. No one here pays me to go,” he added.

After constituents pushed back, Mullin reiterated that being a lawmaker is not "how I make my living."

“I’m just saying ... this is a service for me, not a career, and I thank God this is not how I make my living,” he said.

What a dick. May his career be very very short.
posted by futz at 4:21 PM on April 13, 2017 [69 favorites]

Comparing the "human error" of using "You should fuck me" as a pick-up line to Jesus' "error" of dropping the huge, heavy cross he was forced to carry, after being beaten and whipped, to his own crucifixion? That's sure to sew up the evangelical vote right there.

It is New Jersey though, so...
posted by Rykey at 4:23 PM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

The ADL has offered Sean Spicer and the Trump White House remedial Holocaust lessons:

For decades, ADL has been at the forefront of Holocaust education, providing trainings about the Nazi atrocities to a wide range of groups. We have conducted trainings for more than 130,000 law enforcement professionals and more than 35,447 educators, reaching more than 1,000,000 students. Our programs provide historical context for how the Holocaust was able to occur; teach the Holocaust as a human story; and create opportunities for critical thinking. Each of these educational programs focuses on the consequences of unchecked bigotry and hate.

ADL would be happy to conduct one of these trainings at your convenience for you, your staff, and anyone at the White House who may need to learn more about the Holocaust. We know you are very busy, but we believe a few hours learning this history will help you understand where you went wrong and prevent you from making these mistakes in the future.

posted by peeedro at 4:24 PM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

Instead, the agency plans to spend the money on eight model walls

Trump: "What is this? A wall for ants!? How can we stop immigrants if they're taller than the wall!? It has to be at least ... three times longer than this!"
posted by compartment at 4:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

the trump doctrine is shaping up to be a variation of Sherriff Bart holding himself hostage in Blazing Saddles
posted by murphy slaw at 4:34 PM on April 13, 2017 [14 favorites]

The point isn't who pays his salary but who he works for. He works for the American public while he's in office and I don't give a shit how he gets paid.
posted by VTX at 4:35 PM on April 13, 2017 [17 favorites]

I’m just saying ... this is a service for me, not a career, and I thank God this is not how I make my living,” he said.

Then I suggest the good representative study up on the concept of service based leadership and ask himself who is he there to serve, and reflect.

That's my kind and gentle response as we head into the Easter weekend.
posted by nubs at 4:35 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

Then I suggest the good representative study up on the concept of service based leadership and ask himself who is he there to serve, and reflect.

That's assuming that this guy is capable of any thought deeper than "I am a rich, important dude, and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they should be grateful that I'm taking time out of my busy schedule to govern them."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:38 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

So who tf knows, but it might calm some nerves out there because mine are frayed to shit.

I mean, yes, good thing that someone is trying to push back on this report, but since I don't think NBC made it up out of whole cloth, I'd also call it "extremely dangerous" that there are apparently warring factions within the government that are using press leaks to express differing views on whether we're about to attack North Korea.
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

What was the consensus from all the conversation about whether members of the military could ignore a command from the CiC*?

Because that's pretty much where we are.
posted by Dashy at 4:42 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

You're not only allowed but required to disobey an illegal order. On the other hand, you get to prove it was illegal by being court martialed and those judging you will not be particularly sympathetic.
posted by Justinian at 4:45 PM on April 13, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump is like a big, fat, human Twiki with unlimited power!

Wow, you reached way back for that one. Today I learned I still have brain cells dedicated to Buck Rogers.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:52 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

"Even Jesus dropped the cross three times" is the PERFECT non-apology. Right now I am praying to Jesus to make that pop out of Sean Spicer's mouth the next time he non-apologizes.

The next time some Republican dares to tell me "We can't afford to do that" (educate immigrant children, welcome refuges, expand the CDC, etc.) I'm going to reply, "But apparently we can afford $20,000,000 to make up some wall MODELS." (Sorry for all of the caps. I promise I'm not drunk just a bit more outraged than usual)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

But none of the new wall will be built unless Congress approves Trump’s request for $1.4 billion in the coming fiscal year. House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., has indicated he will not include the money in a budget bill expected later this month to extend government funding.

If the money eventually comes through, it will take two years to start construction, said Mark Borkowski, the agency’s chief procurement official.

Hmmm. Let's say he doesn't get the money this year. Let's say it is included in the 2019 budget That would mean construction could not start until 2021-- by which time we surely will have a new President, a Democrat I hope. Does the incoming President get to stop construction?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:06 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Maybe he wants the wall to be gold.
posted by yoga at 5:16 PM on April 13, 2017

Comparing the "human error" of using "You should fuck me" as a pick-up line to Jesus' "error" of dropping the huge, heavy cross he was forced to carry, after being beaten and whipped, to his own crucifixion? That's sure to sew up the evangelical vote right there.

You seriously underestimate the venality of the male 'persecuted by sex-denial' voter. I suspect a lot of them think Jesus had it easy compared to their romantic travails.
posted by srboisvert at 5:25 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

The next time some Republican dares to tell me "We can't afford to do that" (educate immigrant children, welcome refuges, expand the CDC, etc.) I'm going to reply, "But apparently we can afford $20,000,000 to make up some wall MODELS." (Sorry for all of the caps. I promise I'm not drunk just a bit more outraged than usual)

Maybe let Derek Zoolander reply.
posted by srboisvert at 5:27 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm howling at "even Jesus dropped the cross three times." It's like something Rihanna would tweet to a hater.
posted by BeginAgain at 5:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

“I’m just saying ... this is a service for me, not a career, and I thank God this is not how I make my living,” he said.

This is the point at which he should've been pelted with rocks and garbage.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:37 PM on April 13, 2017 [34 favorites]

witchen: "I disagree and I would love to read some sane news and opinions and analysis here about the MOAB and our president's uses of force. It's a big deal and a lot of people are scared. And (speaking for myself here) eager to learn more about why this is not such a big deal or why it is catastrophically bad or where it lands in the middle."

There's not all that much to say even if you're familiar with the weapon; Wikipedia will tell you it's a giant cylinder full of RDX/TNT/powdered aluminum mixed 9:6:4. RDX is the primary ingredient in C-4, TNT you probably know, powdered aluminum is what's used in flash powder* (pyrotechnics and pre-flashbulb photography).

At 11 tons TNT, the blast on a MOAB is ~30x less than the absolute lowest a conventional variable-yield tactical nuke like the B61 can be dialed down to, and ~3000x less than you'd expect from a "discrete" tactical strike. The B61 is a big chunk of the tactical (read: small-to-intermediate) part of our bomber-delivered arsenal, with a yield range of 300 to 340,000 tons of TNT. At the other end of the scale, Strategic weapons like the B83 are in the megaton range, and once those come out it's game over. The Enduring Stockpile page is a good starting place if you want more context along these lines.

Use of the MOAB is not a big deal except in its PR impact, and the reason we have so few is that they're stupid, inefficient, phallocentric showpieces. Pure jackoff material for rednecks, in this case resting squarely at the intersection of NK nuclear posturing and avenging a fallen soldier. Think back on how the Syrian cruise missile strike accomplished fuck-all; similarly, if they were serious about killing the soldiers in those tunnels they'd have used a fuel-air explosive to just suffocate them by burning the available oxygen.

This is military theater. Clickbait. Sound and fury signifying nothing, and most certainly told by an idiot.

What's actually worrying here is the broader trend it represents: Trump has discovered he can make his problems temporarily disappear with especially flashy violence, and my immediate fear following the Syrian cruise missile strike was that he'd become an addict. Probably part of why Bannon and isolationism are out (would also speculate Ivanka finally losing patience with getting leered at). I had my fingers crossed we'd avoid ever-decreasing inhibitions regarding violence after the disastrous special forces raid right at the start of Trump's presidency, but it feels kind of naive now to believe that would ever stick for very long.

There's really not much else to say other than that now would be a fantastic time to get the fuck out of Seoul, because Mr. Geopolitical Butterfingers here is one Tweet away from killing a few hundred thousand people, per OPLAN 5027 estimates.

*Tangent: you can make flash powder at home yourself just mixing potassium perchlorate and ground aluminum - keep individual quantities small, separated, and away from any heat above room temperature. Top 5 father-son activity with my dad, personally ("no comment" on TNT, RDX is disappointingly but perhaps fortunately beyond home chemistry, even if your dad is a chemist with radioactive samples in a lead-lined cabinet in lieu of the classic porn stash).
posted by Ryvar at 5:41 PM on April 13, 2017 [44 favorites]

Hayes Brown, BuzzFeed: How Russia Hacked Obama's Legacy

"When we rolled that out on Oct. 7, we thought this would get a huge amount of pickup and play and be a catalyzing moment for the country, when the United States government -- the intelligence community and DHS — announced jointly that Russians were trying to hack our election ... A colleague of mine at another department was on the phone with a reporter, who was asking him questions about the statement. My colleague then recalled hearing from the reporter, ‘Oh my god. I'll have to call you back.'"

One hour after the statement dropped, the Washington Post published the 2005 "grab them by the pussy" tape. Less than half an hour later, WikiLeaks began dumping a new series of emails, this time hacked from the account of John Podesta, Clinton’s campaign chairman.

The reporter never called back.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:50 PM on April 13, 2017 [39 favorites]

Ryvar: ...if they were serious about killing the soldiers in those tunnels they'd have used a fuel-air explosive...

You know, a fuel-air bomb is exactly what I thought of when I saw this: if they wanted to, you know, wreck stuff, that's the ticket there. Otherwise it's just strutting.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:57 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.) faced off with constituents at a town hall this week, telling the members of the audience that they don't pay his salary.

My compliments to the (probably loud, hostile) participants who provoked him into saying this stupid shit out loud. They got him to show his true colors and made him question his own commitment to the job.
posted by klarck at 6:00 PM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]

If there are competing White House leaks over a potential military strike on the DPRK, then you know what comes next. I just. can't. wait. for Hillary Clinton to show up at The International Forum for Investment Banking and Means Testing to publicly endorse a limited nuclear strike on North Korea.
posted by indubitable at 6:02 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

CIA director Mike Pompeo: WikiLeaks is a 'hostile intelligence service'

In his Thursday speech, Pompeo accused WikiLeaks, its founder Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, a former contractor who leaked NSA documents to journalists, of disseminating classified information to "make a name for themselves."

Pompeo has in the past called for Snowden to receive the death penalty.

He said people at the CIA found praise for WikiLeaks "both perplexing and deeply troubling."

"As long as they make a splash, they care nothing about the lives they put at risk or the damage they cause to national security," Pompeo said. "It's time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is: a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors, like Russia."

During the question and answer portion of the event, Pompeo said because Assange was not a US citizen and lived in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, he "has no First Amendment freedoms."
posted by futz at 6:03 PM on April 13, 2017 [8 favorites]

so Josh Marshall over at TPM must be feeling the strain or something because he has taken to marking up tweets in the manner of MS Paint conspiracy memes.

his take on the "senior military officials dispute NBC Korea report" is amazing
posted by murphy slaw at 6:03 PM on April 13, 2017 [14 favorites]

Cabinet-level snowflake Scott Pruitt requests round-the-clock security protection.

Myron Ebell, who led President Donald Trump’s EPA transition team, told E&E News in February that the additional security agents could help protect Pruitt from protesters and his department’s own employees.

“I think it’s prudent given the continuing activities by the left to foment hatred, and the reported hostility within the agency from some unprofessional activists,” he said.

The left doesn't have to do jack shit to foment hatred—except tell the truth.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:05 PM on April 13, 2017 [31 favorites]

In response to Pompeo's comments wikileaks released this deleted tweet from Pompeo on 9:36 AM - 24 Jul 2016:

Need further proof that the fix was in from Pres. Obama on down? BUSTED: 19,252 Emails from DNC Leaked by Wikileaks
posted by futz at 6:09 PM on April 13, 2017 [10 favorites]

“I think it’s prudent given the continuing activities by the left to foment hatred, and the reported hostility within the agency from some unprofessional activists,” he said.

There is no emoji sparkly enough to express how I feel about the fact that Scott Pruitt is scared.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [20 favorites]

Remind me again why Ecuador is allowing Assange to live there? It still doesn't make sense.
posted by Yowser at 6:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

They like being jerks to America in a largely cost free way, I guess. I dunno, maybe they actually buy that he's working for the betterment of mankind billshit or think him getting extradited would be unfair to rapists or something.
posted by Artw at 6:38 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

Remind me again why Ecuador is allowing Assange to live there? It still doesn't make sense.

A giant middle finger to the United States.
posted by Talez at 6:39 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

In his Thursday speech, Pompeo accused WikiLeaks, its founder Julian Assange ...

Oh no Julian isn't useful any more ...
posted by octobersurprise at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2017

Oh duh. They probably let Assange crash on the couch because of the Heather Hodges affair. She basically shat on the then president, Rafael Correa for being in bed with the corrupt National Police Commander Hurtado in some diplomatic cables that were leaked by Wikileaks. She was subsequently expelled from Ecuador when she couldn't give a good enough reason for privately shitting on the president. Then the US decided to expel Ecuador's ambassador in retaliation.
posted by Talez at 6:45 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

this thread is starting to make my ipad cry
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

our threat was meaningless.

Well of course it's meaningless, it's Donald Trump. Even if we did exactly what we said we'd do, it could change with a slight breeze. It's not policy, it's a demented whim. The man is seriously, and in a nuclear-capable way, impaired.

I'd like those articles of impeachment on my desk by morning. Put the new kid on it, they seem bright.
posted by petebest at 6:45 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

In his Thursday speech, Pompeo accused WikiLeaks, its founder Julian Assange ...

Oh no Julian isn't useful any more ...
posted by octobersurprise

Eponysdystopian
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:58 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]

CIA director Mike Pompeo: WikiLeaks is a 'hostile intelligence service'

Mike Pompeo was sharing Wikileaks documents on his Congressional Twitter account less than a year ago
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:59 PM on April 13, 2017 [20 favorites]

GAAAAAHH!!! With video. The derision from the audience is beautiful to behold. Glorious even.

A climate-denying congressman compared himself to Einstein. His constituents booed him.

Republican Representative Andy Biggs was forced to defend his rampant denial of mainstream climate science during a raucous town hall in Mesa, Arizona, on Tuesday. Biggs, a House Freedom Caucus member, made the widely-debunked claim that climate scientists “manipulated data” to prove the existence of manmade global warming. His audience jeered and booed him.

That irked Biggs. “It’s hard to get to the point because you want to shout me down,” he said. As the crowd continued its ruckus, Biggs compared his plight to Albert Einstein, whose theories were attacked vociferously before they were accepted and applauded. “Oddly enough,” Biggs told the audience, “the same attitude you take is the exact same attitude that Einstein faced over physics. That’s exactly what happened to him. They shouted him down until he was able to demonstrate.”

This prompted one audience member to yell: “You’re not Einstein!”

-- Biggs, who chairs the House Science Committee’s subcommittee on the environment, has never been shy about his climate-change denial. “I do not believe climate change is occurring,” he said in 2016. “I do not think that humans have a significant impact on climate. The federal government should stop regulating and stomping on our economy and freedoms in the name of a discredited theory.” Last month, he helped lead a House Science Committee hearing to attack the legitimacy of mainstream climate science.

On Tuesday, Biggs said he’s “read stuff” from “tenured professors” who disagree that humans are the primary cause of climate change.

Muh Freedoms! Looks like the freshman representative has learned about whataboutism. I am so happy that people are pushing back. You sir, are no Albert Einstein!
posted by futz at 7:00 PM on April 13, 2017 [43 favorites]

Pompeo is a cretin who was perfectly happy with wikileaks until WL did a hit job on his team. Cry me a river Mikey, you are complicit.
posted by futz at 7:10 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]

CIA director Mike Pompeo: WikiLeaks is a 'hostile intelligence service'

Mike Pompeo was sharing Wikileaks documents on his Congressional Twitter account less than a year ago

That was referenced in my comment :)
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on April 13, 2017

The Republicans make dangerous friends for Wikileaks and Assange. I didn't really think about it when they started with the "the real enemy is Hillary Clinton, who will start WWIII" line, but even then it should have been obvious that the Republicans would turn on Wikileaks the very minute that they failed to toe the line, or the very minute that a "tough on leakers" line seemed useful.

Were I Assange, I'd be way more worried about the outcome of a show trial under Trump than Clinton.

On another note, we're coming up on when Chelsea Manning is supposed to be released. It will be interesting to see whether she really is. (Frankly, if I were Obama, I would have moved whatever I had to move to get her out of jail before January 20.) If I were Assange, I'd be paying really close attention to what happens to her, since I'd expect that if she's retried or detained, that will suggest that Assange really will just get a show trial and a lifetime of solitary if he is ever extradited here.
posted by Frowner at 7:26 PM on April 13, 2017 [14 favorites]

Sounds like Sen. Flake is getting absolutely hammered at his town hall, with a lot of chants of "no stupid wall."
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on April 13, 2017 [16 favorites]

Sounds like Sen. Flake is getting absolutely hammered at his town hall, with a lot of chants of "no stupid wall."

Wait, did Flake eat the goddamned meatloaf and endorse the wall? I have been sunk into existential despair over our new wars everywhere so have been paying less domestic attention.
posted by corb at 8:10 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

Frankly, if I were Obama, I would have moved whatever I had to move to get her out of jail before January 20.

E.g., you would have used your Presidential powers to scribble a note pardoning her. Instead, there's a good chance that his commutation will have been too little, too late.

I'm an outsider here, of course, but this seems to have been a consistent thread of his Presidency. Everything was slow, and judicious, and compromise-seeking, and done with an eye on his legacy. I don't think future historians - if there are any historians - will credit him for that approach. In retrospect he should have pulled out all the stops on every occasion, because things would not be worse then they are right now.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:31 PM on April 13, 2017 [20 favorites]

NK is far from being likely to launch a successful nuclear attack, but their very real bargaining chip has always been the ability to drop a million pounds of shells on Seoul from behind the DMZ at the drop of a hat

But can they launch a successful nuclear attack on a fleet of surface ships which we helpfully send to the other side of the world and place right off their coast, where it can be isolated as a solely-military target?

I would think the U.S. and Japanese* militaries must each have this all gamed out and have planned ripostes for every scenario against both rational and irrational opponents, and the range of possible outcomes wouldn't be substantially different from a pre-emptive conventional strike on Seoul by NK anyways, but it still feels like we've unnecessarily given them an extra option while putting the lives of military personnel at risk, at the very moment when we're trying to twist NK's arm, all in exchange for Trumpian production values or something.
posted by XMLicious at 8:35 PM on April 13, 2017

Donald Trump Jr. mocked the struggles of LGBT students on Twitter - over opposition to a Chick-fil-A at Duquesne. Five years ago, when Northeastern proposed letting Chick-fil-A in, the move was opposed not just by students but by the mayor of Boston. Outcome: Boston is still Chick-fil-A-free.
posted by adamg

Guess Junior isn't busy enough? Thought he was staying out of politics? Warning: Junior's Twit link. Luckily these students wont likely have to tackle issues more stressful than a yummy chicken sandwich in their lives... Oh Wait #triggered https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/852517849478434816 …

I love it when they whine about people being triggered. He was so triggered that he had to comment. As for staying out of politics...yeah, no. He's retweeting pro Gorka 'news' for example. Squick. I can't wait for this pustule disguised as human goes down in flames. They are all complicit.
posted by futz at 8:38 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

Just a tidbit..."Ray Starling, who works on agriculture issues and was formerly the general counsel for the North Carolina Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services." (Now working for National Economic Council, for a moderate hire Gary Cohn. Just some light humor.)
posted by Oyéah at 8:50 PM on April 13, 2017

You know, I mean, hiring a Starling to work on agricultural issues. Just like hiring Sessions for Justice, and the oil guy for the EPA.
posted by Oyéah at 8:51 PM on April 13, 2017

Translation From Greed-Speak to English of Selected Portions of
Scott Pruitt's Announcement On Halting The Rule
Curbing Toxic Waste Release From Coal Plants
(with apologies to John Gruber)

"I have decided that it is appropriate and in the public interest to reconsider the rule."

Climate change is bullshit. My donors are quite adamant about that.

"This action is another example of EPA implementing President Trump’s vision of being good stewards of our natural resources, while not developing regulations that hurt our economy and kill jobs."

President Trump has no idea what the word "steward" means. He probably thinks it has something to do with food. He also has the attention span of a goldfish and believes whatever I tell him.

"Some of our nation’s largest job producers have objected to this rule, saying the requirements set by the Obama administration are not economically or technologically feasible within the prescribed time frame."

Compliance costs mean mine owners can't afford to vacation in Gstaad and must settle for Vail. Also, fuck Obama.

In a Federal Register notice filed this week, the EPA said "justice requires" it to stay the regulation’s current deadlines "in light of the capital expenditures that facilities incurring costs under the Rule will need to undertake in order to meet the compliance deadlines for the new, more stringent limitations and standards in the rule."

Mine owners need bigger profits to quickly build the robots that will replace their troublesome employees.

"The coal industry was nearly devastated by years of regulatory overreach. But with new direction from President Trump, we are helping to turn things around for these miners and for many other hard working Americans."

I am high as a kite.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:16 PM on April 13, 2017 [18 favorites]

Starlings are gorgeous birds and fascinating to watch. I trust that they have my back (literally, stay away from their nests) more than freeDumb Caucus assholes. Ironically, I would rather hang out with elephants than most humans. Another fascinating study was just published about our elephant friends but I digress. Perhaps I'll do an FPP.
posted by futz at 9:18 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]

But can they launch a successful nuclear attack on a fleet of surface ships which we helpfully send to the other side of the world and place right off their coast, where it can be isolated as a solely-military target?

No. NK has nukes & they have missiles but they're nowhere near putting them together. The payload has to be shrunk significantly & probably a lot of work has to be done in other areas like ruggedizing also - think about how much force is involved in launching a missile. Detonating a nuclear weapon is an incredibly complex precision process, akin to brain surgery. Doing it at the end of a missile flight is like brain surgery at the end of a roller coaster ride where you take the whole operating theater with you on the ride.
posted by scalefree at 9:18 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

“Vice President Pence heads to Seoul as North Korea tensions flare,” Roberta Rampton, Reuters, 14 April 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 9:26 PM on April 13, 2017

Guess Junior isn't busy enough? Thought he was staying out of politics?

It's an abhorrent comment but it was 5 years ago.
posted by scalefree at 9:32 PM on April 13, 2017

folks, when this administration wants you to think the grownups are in charge, they send mike "funerals for miscarriages" pence. he is their Serious Cat.

we are fucked on so many levels.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:35 PM on April 13, 2017 [21 favorites]

Junior's tweet is from today.
posted by zachlipton at 9:36 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

Wait, I thought it was about Northeastern Univ turning them down, which did happen 5 years ago. Well never mind then.
posted by scalefree at 9:41 PM on April 13, 2017

GA-06:

New DDH poll:

Ossoff (D) 39
Handel (R) 14
Gray (R) 12
Moody (R) 11
Hill (R) 10

Combined D 43
Combined R 51

--

Thu early vote update:

R 51, D 32
Over all, D 42-R 41 with 46494 ballots cast.

The Dem turnout in lower Dekalb County--most D part of district, no good EV site--on election day is going to be a big question

posted by Chrysostom at 9:43 PM on April 13, 2017 [6 favorites]

No. NK has nukes & they have missiles but they're nowhere near putting them together. The payload has to be shrunk significantly & probably a lot of work has to be done in other areas like ruggedizing also - think about how much force is involved in launching a missile. Detonating a nuclear weapon is an incredibly complex precision process, akin to brain surgery. Doing it at the end of a missile flight is like brain surgery at the end of a roller coaster ride where you take the whole operating theater with you on the ride.

I haven't been keeping a close eye on technical developments but this seems to contradict what I'm getting in a casual search. For example Stratfor did a series of articles on NK and nukes in January and in the one entitled, "How North Korea Would Retaliate" they say:

...Moreover, ballistic missiles could strike U.S. military positions beyond the Korean Peninsula, specifically in Japan. Whatever the targets, Pyongyang's existing ballistic missile stockpile could easily deliver approximately 1 kiloton (1,000 metric tons) of high explosives, as well as other nonconventional munitions — chemical, biological or even nuclear. Because of the inaccuracy of different North Korean missile systems, these strikes would most appropriately be used against urban centers or other wide-area targets. If employed against specific military facilities at longer ranges, a significant amount of misses would occur.

...

The most significant threat from North Korea's ballistic missile stockpile is the potential for a nuclear strike. Some estimates indicate North Korea may have between two and five nuclear warheads at its disposal already, at least some of which could be made to fit on a Nodong missile. Even a single nuclear strike against a South Korean population center would result in catastrophic shock and incur an immense cost. Though a nuclear strike would not automatically guarantee Seoul's capitulation, South Korea and the United States factor the possibility of such a strike heavily into their considerations of a strike on the North's nuclear program.

posted by XMLicious at 11:27 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Even Jesus dropped the cross three times" is the PERFECT non-apology. Right now I am praying to Jesus to make that pop out of Sean Spicer's mouth the next time he non-apologizes.

Not only is it a non-apology, he is comparing himself to Jesus.

Perhaps the best response would be a Hitler comparison as a counterweight: "Maybe so, but not even Hitler was caught on video offering drunken sex to women."
posted by sour cream at 1:28 AM on April 14, 2017 [29 favorites]

When you have that few nukes, a long history of duds and half-fizzled detonations, documented persistent fuel purity issues, and no live tests of a combined weapon/delivery system, you don't use your nukes offensively.

I mean, you don't use them offensively regardless if you don't want your country potentially glassed in retaliation, but beyond that you don't set them up to fail in untested circumstances outside your control.

The first few nukes any country makes are a defensive countermeasure against invasion by historical aggressors and/or imperialist nuclear power world police wannabes. It's why we probably won't go to war with Iran if Mattis has any actual pull with Trump (or if Israel has any actual pull with Kushner, since they don't want that on their doorstep).

But the DPRK nuclear program is probably the most failure-ridden in history. I would not wager money in either direction as to whether they have even a single functioning nuke, but I would wager a considerable sum and personal safety that they don't have enough to start using them offensively.

This is all predicated on their leadership behaving rationally, and at the moment that appears to be too much to ask of any involved party except China. It is also overlooking the fact that given the amount of artillery North Korea can bring to bear even in the face of a pre-emptive strike by the US, we're still looking at hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths.

Totally serious: if you're reading this and there's anybody you care about in Seoul, I would strongly urge them to take a vacation elsewhere until Mike Pence is gone. Not canceling his visit is the single dumbest thing the Trump administration has done thus far, and I am completely aware of the scope of that claim.
posted by Ryvar at 1:43 AM on April 14, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Dem turnout in lower Dekalb County--most D part of district, no good EV site

South of Decatur and Avondale Estates is where the mostly African-American part begins. Often you can tell this, in Atlanta, because the road names actually change (like Briarcliff Rd becomes Moreland Ave), for redlining convenience.
posted by thelonius at 2:26 AM on April 14, 2017 [9 favorites]

Only North DeKalb is in the 6th--Tucker, Chamblee, Doraville, Brookhaven. It's a pretty diverse area, but definitely more white than South Dekalb (we're in John Lewis's 5th and Hank Johnson's 4th).
posted by hydropsyche at 4:06 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

GA-06 is beginning to look like a dud, right? He's not going to win if he doesn't get 50% in this round of voting.
posted by Yowser at 4:08 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

thanks- I had that wrong
posted by thelonius at 4:23 AM on April 14, 2017

Democrats In Illinois Just Unseated A Whole Bunch Of Republicans [HuffPo]

In a spate of local elections last week in Illinois, Democrats picked up seats in places they’ve never won before.

The city of Kankakee elected its first African-American, Democratic mayor. West Deerfield Township will be led entirely by Democrats for the first time. Elgin Township voted for “a complete changeover,” flipping to an all-Democratic board. Normal Township elected Democratic supervisors and trustees to run its board ― the first time in more than 100 years that a single Democrat has held a seat.

posted by melissasaurus at 5:22 AM on April 14, 2017 [94 favorites]

I mean, you don't use them offensively regardless if you don't want your country potentially glassed in retaliation, but beyond that you don't set them up to fail in untested circumstances outside your control.

Sorry, it may have gotten lost in the back-and-forth, but I'm contemplating NK making a strictly defensive use of nukes against an approaching military force from a country run by a guy who probably thinks what he is doing somehow doesn't count as openly threatening NK with invasion and an end to their sovereignty, as the first domino in something bad happening. Mr. Genius Negotiatior seems to be offering such a purely-defensive strike up as an option to NK for no particular reason.

Yeah, it would be embarrassing for NK to try to use nuclear weapons and have them fizzle, but it would also be embarrassing for them to be invaded and their capacity to develop nuclear weapons pried from their hands.

Trump probably sees himself as a daring macho gunslinger or something of the sort for taking a coin-flip bet with however many million other peoples' lives, over which embarrassment NK leadership would rather suffer.

But I think the rest of us need to remain clear-eyed about what is going on, even if it is abhorrent to think about, and demand proof of exactly what odds he's accepting on behalf of everyone else in this Dark-Helmet-from-Spaceballs-playing-with-dolls gambit, and hold him to account for what he's doing. He appears to be taking even greater risks for stupider reasons than GWB invading Iraq with a half-assed plan did, unsurprisingly to some degree since that turned out to be effectively consequence-free for that President.

Unfortunately he has brought us to the point where it's necessary to look into the Abyss on a regular basis if we are going to continue refusing to normalize his worst behavior.
posted by XMLicious at 5:36 AM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

spitbull: Alas I suspect Assange will meet a more ignominious end. Putin must be almost sick of his shit, and can certainly deliver a polonium pink slip.

I'm confused - what's Putin sick of? Wikileaks helped Russia pull off the greatest influence operation in the history of its intelligence services. Putin will need him in 2020 to smear the next Democratic candidate with whatever Pizzagate non-scandal they manufacture.
posted by bluecore at 5:48 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh good, deflation:
US Consumer Price Index fell 0.3% in March vs 0.2% increase expected [CNBC, currently no add'l info at link]
posted by melissasaurus at 5:51 AM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ivanka tweets "We honor our libraries and librarians" for #NationalLibraryWeek; Librarians remind her that her father's budget proposal completely defunds the the Institute of Museum and Library Services.
posted by zakur at 6:21 AM on April 14, 2017 [87 favorites]

In re Assange: I don't mind him getting a fair trial for things he's plausibly accused of. I do mind the type of trial he's likely to get here, and I do mind the idea that political whistleblowing (which is what they're really after him for) is ipso facto wrong and dubious. Wikileaks hasn't been a perfect project, but it has exposed some very unattractive practices by Western governments and I do mind the idea that Assange gets painted as a villain for that. Paint him as a villain for indiscriminate release of data that endangered individuals on the ground; paint him as a villain for likely being a rapey creep; paint him as a villain for cozying up to Putin to stick the knife in the Democrats because he personally hates them....but that's not what the Republicans will do him down for.
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on April 14, 2017 [21 favorites]

Also in Illinois elections, local school boards that voters had given up on this year saw people organize and throw the bums out. I follow this closely as the High School District serves the community that is served by the nonprofit I'm on the board of. People had given up, but there has been a new growth of progressive involvement, here's hoping that they will not be thwarted!
Grass-roots campaigns rack up school board wins in Cook Co.
posted by readery at 6:31 AM on April 14, 2017 [20 favorites]

Well to be fair - we don't have a giant sky dome to project the names of vanquished federal programs onto in this volume of the Hunger Games, so Ivanka is just making do with tweets to celebrate their sacrifice. Maybe if the wall is high enough we can use that in the future?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:36 AM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

Counterpoint: Trump Isn’t Interested in Learning—Just Winning
Alas, this hope is based on a mistaken understanding of how Trump operates. His approach to knowledge is not cumulative—to gather new information, have a better understand the world, and make more informed decisions—but rather situational. Trump is at heart a salesman, so the only knowledge he’s truly interested in retaining is that which he needs to know to close a deal. Trump’s real skill is figuring out what people want to hear so he can get them to do what he wants, whether it’s buying his products or voting for him. That is how he became a successful businessman and entertainer.
...
He’ll say whatever the moment requires. Right now, the moment doesn’t require winning over more white working class voters, but working with fellow members of the elite.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:06 AM on April 14, 2017 [29 favorites]

I'd argue that Trump isn't as invested in the process of winning as much as he likes 'being' a winner.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:28 AM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]

Myron Ebell, who led President Donald Trump’s EPA transition team, told E&E News in February that the additional security agents could help protect Pruitt from protesters and his department’s own employees.

Boss of the year material, there.

You Can't Tip a Buick: There is no emoji sparkly enough to express how I feel about the fact that Scott Pruitt is scared.

It looks like we can add one more "how many?" list to the Trump administration to track it's complete lack of performance: how many appointees are using an excessive amount of security agents because they're afraid of people in America? Because I'm sure there's someone besides Pruitt and DeVos.

This is a sign that the US is not too far along the path towards a fascist dictatorship - the party leaders, as much as they are, aren't instilling fear in the public at large, they're scared of the public. (Yes, ICE and DHS are still jackboot thugs, but with limited focus at the moment.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:29 AM on April 14, 2017 [42 favorites]

melissasaurus: In a spate of local elections last week in Illinois, Democrats picked up seats in places they’ve never won before.

Political change comes from the ground up, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:35 AM on April 14, 2017 [9 favorites]

Let me tell you right now. You should fuck me. It would really be good,” McDowell says in the video. “Listen, you never know.”

After reading this article I wondered what the best response would be and my first thought was to projectile vomit on his face. (I'll credit that idea to the cough syrup with codeine because I'm not that creative.)
posted by Room 641-A at 7:44 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

> The whole situation would be implausible as fiction; and yet...

We'll use this as the epigram on the chapter describing the fall of Western democracy and the end of the post-WWII world order, yeah?
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:45 AM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Independent: 'Concrete evidence of collusion between Trump team and Russia' handed to official investigation

New evidence proves discussions took place “between people in the Trump campaign and agents of [Russian] influence relating to the use of hacked material,” a source allegedly told the Guardian.

The developments come as it has emerged that Britain’s spy agencies were among the first to alert their American counterparts to contact between members of Mr Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives.

Spy agencies, including GCHQ, were not deliberately targeting members of the Trump team but rather recorded communications through “incidental collection,” CNN reports.

This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information under the "Five Eyes“ agreement, which calls for open sharing of certain types of information among member nations the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern in communications between the Republican's inner circle and Russian operatives. For six months, until summer 2016, these interactions were repeatedly flagged to intelligence officials in the US, who sources have said were slow to act.

The Guardian: British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia

The Guardian has been told the FBI and the CIA were slow to appreciate the extensive nature of contacts between Trump’s team and Moscow ahead of the US election. This was in part due to US law that prohibits US agencies from examining the private communications of American citizens without warrants. “They are trained not to do this,” the source stressed.
[...]
“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,” the source added. “They [the European agencies] were saying: ‘There are contacts going on between people close to Mr Trump and people we believe are Russian intelligence agents. You should be wary of this.’

In late August and September Brennan gave a series of classified briefings to the Gang of Eight, the top-ranking Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He told them the agency had evidence the Kremlin might be trying to help Trump to win the presidency, the New York Times reported.

One person familiar with the matter said Brennan did not reveal sources but made reference to the fact that America’s intelligence allies had provided information. Trump subsequently learned of GCHQ’s role, the person said.

The person described US intelligence as being “very late to the game”. The FBI’s director, James Comey, altered his position after the election and Trump’s victory, becoming “more affirmative” and with a “higher level of concern”.

Comey’s apparent shift may have followed a mid-October decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa) court to approve a secret surveillance order. The order gave permission for the Department of Justice to investigate two banks suspected of being part of the Kremlin’s undercover influence operation.

According to the BBC, the justice department’s request came after a tipoff from an intelligence agency in one of the Baltic states. This is believed to be Estonia.
[...]
One source suggested the official investigation was making progress. “They now have specific concrete and corroborative evidence of collusion,” the source said. “This is between people in the Trump campaign and agents of [Russian] influence relating to the use of hacked material.”

posted by OnceUponATime at 7:49 AM on April 14, 2017 [35 favorites]

Donald Trump Is Just George W. Bush But Racist
As he has come into contact with a concrete agenda, every heterodox promise has given way to conventional GOP positions. ...
The Republican government, under Trump, has retraced the steps it took under Bush — from the obsession with tax cuts for the rich, to the vanishing line between the party’s paid lobbyists and its public servants. The reality is that, contrary to the willful misreading of conservatives elites, the tea-party revolution was not fundamentally a reaction against deficits or crony capitalism: It was a heavily racialized backlash against social change. And that spirit — the true animating spirit of the grassroots right — has lived on in Trump’s presidency. ...
The political reality Trump has discovered through trial and error is that he is delivering each constituency the thing it most craves. Trump’s white-identity politics satisfy his voting base enough to make his plutocratic economics tolerable. And the financial and political elite are willing to swallow their qualms about his ugly ethnonationalism because they are going to get paid. If you thought George W. Bush was generally swell, but too racially inclusive, you are going to like Trump’s presidency.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:50 AM on April 14, 2017 [27 favorites]

WaPo: 'Prediction professor' lays out eight reasons Trump could be impeached

The Republican Congress could conceivably move to impeachment if they believe Trump is a liability to them, and remember, every member has to stand for reelection in 2018. And Trump has no long-standing relationship with these members of Congress. He hasn’t really been a mainstay of the Republican Party. And there is also the possibility that in 2018 you have a wave election, which gives Democrats control of the House and completely changes the political dynamic.

But barring that, understand, not all Republicans have to be in favor of impeachment. If Democrats want it, and two dozen Republicans, approximately, switch, you have enough votes for impeachment. All it takes is a simple majority.

And finally, remember: Republicans really don’t trust Donald Trump. He’s a loose cannon. But they love Mike Pence. He’s a down-the-line Christian conservative dream president for the Republicans in Congress.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:02 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Independent: 'Concrete evidence of collusion between Trump team and Russia' handed to official investigation

I keep seeing this bubbling around, but every story comes back to a single anonymous source in the same Guardian article. I'd love to see corroboration, but... I'm not holding my breath on this one.
posted by jammer at 8:04 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

but every story comes back to a single anonymous source in the same Guardian article. I'd love to see corroboration, but... I'm not holding my breath on this one.

I dunno, I'd consider this a corroborative quote from a separate credible source:

Schiff: 'There Is More Than Circumstantial Evidence Now'

A surprised Todd asked Schiff to concede that any suggestion of collusion was circumstantial evidence at best.

“Actually, no, Chuck,” Schiff said. “I can tell you that the case is more than that. And I can’t go into the particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now. … I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial, and is very much worthy of investigation.”

posted by OnceUponATime at 8:10 AM on April 14, 2017 [13 favorites]

'Concrete evidence of collusion between Trump team and Russia' handed to official investigation

Part of me can't help but wonder if DeVos and Pruitt have moved to guard themselves so closely because they're afraid of ending up like so many Russian diplomats. It makes more sense than being afraid of lefty protesters.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:14 AM on April 14, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'd consider this a corroborative quote from a separate credible source:

And while Eichenwald is a little breathless at times for my taste, I don't think he's totally making stuff up when he says this:

About that time, according to reports obtained by Western intelligence, a Trump associate met with a pro-Putin member of Russian parliament at a building in Eastern Europe maintained by Rossotrudnichestvo, an agency under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that is charged with administering language, education and support programs for civilians. While Newsweek could not determine the purpose of the meeting, a Western intelligence official said that surveillance of the meeting was conducted by or on behalf of the Estonian Information Board (EIB), the foreign intelligence service of Estonia.

And while I think "the dossier" is too thinly sourced to prove any case against Trump all by itself, the weight of the evidence from Steele and his sources when added to the pile being hinted at in these other quotes seems like not-zero anyway.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:17 AM on April 14, 2017

'Prediction professor' lays out eight reasons Trump could be impeached

We were falling over reasons to impeach before he was even inaugurated, more aren't going to make Republicans more likely to do it. There simply isn;t any way out of this that isn't having less Republicans.
posted by Artw at 8:17 AM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fareed Zakaria, WaPo: Liberals have to avoid Trump Derangement Syndrome

And then came the strike against Syria. On that issue, Trump appears to have listened carefully to his senior national security professionals, reversed his earlier positions, chosen a calibrated response and acted swiftly. I supported the strike and pointed out — in print and on air — that Trump was finally being presidential because the action “seems to reflect a belated recognition from Trump that he cannot simply put America first — that the president of the United States must act on behalf of broader interests and ideals.” On the whole, though, I was critical of Trump’s larger Syria policy, describing it as “incoherent.” My Post column was titled, “One missile strike is not a strategy.”

From the response on the left, you would have thought I had just endorsed Trump for pope.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:19 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

@MattGertz

Fox host: Dropping MOAB is "what freedom looks like, that's the red, white, and blue."

Geraldo: It's one of my favorite things to watch
posted by zakur at 8:20 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

So Friday-GRARING-hour has made way to cyclic Trump impeachment fantasies. I get it.

It's a little weird, because every weekend I get my hopes up, and then on Monday it's nevertheless just the same old "he changed his mind on these fifteen main points/Spicer can't talk clearly because of foot-in-mouth/Trump Jr., too, is a tweethole/and-there-was-[supposed-to-be]-an-earth-shattering-kaboom."
Oh please let somebody fire off all those eight reasons for impeachment at once: the mother of all impeachments.
posted by Namlit at 8:21 AM on April 14, 2017

Fareed Zakaria is a delusional idiot falling over himself to pretend there's some level of sanity of effectiveness to Trump's actions.
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on April 14, 2017 [18 favorites]

We'll use this as the epigram on the chapter describing the fall of Western democracy and the end of the post-WWII world order, yeah?
posted by octobersurprise at 8:24 AM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

Zakaria didn't fucking say Trump was acting more presidential, he said "He became president last night" like the blood of dead Syrians cleansed all sins away and everyone had joined a big fucking kumbaya to hail our new war king.

Fuck him.
posted by chris24 at 8:29 AM on April 14, 2017 [85 favorites]

mother of all impeachments

I'll trade a MOAB for a MOAI any day.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:33 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

Derangement Syndrome

The origin of that rhetorical turd was in smearing opposition to the dishonest and disastrous occupation of Iraq, iirc, and that opposition was entirely vindicated.
posted by thelonius at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2017 [18 favorites]

Give it a few months, Zakaria will be praising Trump's presidential nature for sending in ground troops to clean up the mess he's about to create in and around North Korea.
posted by tocts at 8:42 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

If Trump pursues a policy, it cannot axiomatically be wrong, evil and dangerous.

I wouldn't want to bet my life on that. I'm less opposed to the idea of a Syrian strike in the abstract, than I am to the idea that a moody, ignorant child, surrounded by a gang of incompetents and con-men, is ordering those strikes.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:47 AM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'd rather have what I've got than Fascism-Normalizing Pundit Derangement Syndrome.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:47 AM on April 14, 2017 [27 favorites]

The origin of that rhetorical turd was in smearing opposition to the dishonest and disastrous occupation of Iraq, iirc, and that opposition was entirely vindicated.

I never heard it in regard to Iraq, only Hillary Clinton. The usage here is pretty much meant in that vein, hating a person so much that you can't think straight. It's a valid warning - I'm already worried a few people here might die if Trump were to come out in favor of respiration.
posted by charred husk at 8:47 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

Fusion (Gawker): Pulitzer Prize Winner Peggy Noonan: We Must Be Nicer to Steve Bannon - highlights her latest column, which comments on how mean everyone is to him.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:50 AM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

Being against a military action taken by a president who has refused to properly staff or use the State Department, who has tried to end the refugee program, and who wants to cut most humanitarian aid programs is not even close to "derangement." I wasn't a fan of most of Obama's military interventions, but at least we could presume that diplomacy and humanitarian concerns were part of the equation -- we explicitly don't have that presumption with Trump, based on his statements and actions.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:03 AM on April 14, 2017 [40 favorites]

Fox host: Dropping MOAB is "what freedom looks like, that's the red, white, and blue."


Okay so I read that, and the thing I thought of, right away, was "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American Way"...and THEN I clicked on the Twitter link and watched the video and they're USING THAT SONG, because of course they fucking are. It's insane and surreal. I mean, yeah, I thought it, but I wasn't expecting even Fox to actually go there. It's like reality has been replaced with "Bob Roberts: 25 Years Later".
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:05 AM on April 14, 2017 [9 favorites]

Zakaria: "Trump appears to have listened carefully to his senior national security professionals"

According to Eric Trump, Donald's senior national security professional was Ivanka who saw some upsetting pictures on Fox News.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 AM on April 14, 2017 [26 favorites]

I never heard it in regard to Iraq, only Hillary Clinton.

Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) is a neologism coined by neoconservative pundit Charles Krauthammer. As he defined it in a 2003 column, it is:

“”...[T]he acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:07 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

Pulitzer Prize Winner Peggy Noonan: We Must Be Nicer to Steve Bannon

Fridays with Peggy! Stay! Dame Noonington hath look'd kindly on ye spotted monster. Her eye doth follow. Bring him forth.

Nay, it changeth not, Lady Peggington hath seen a bright, insane future ...
posted by octobersurprise at 9:08 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember that Toby's "Beer For My Horses" was released the weekend we rolled into Baghdad (with Willie too ... oh, Willie.)

We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:08 AM on April 14, 2017

Ann Hornaday, WaPo movie critic: 'Trump: The First 100 Days,' a troubled production in constant rewrite

“I will tell you, only because you’ve treated me so good for so long,” Trump said confidingly to Bartiromo, whose giddy eagerness to lap up Trump’s flattery recalled any number of junket hacks who have made the rookie mistake of confusing a movie star’s faux intimacy with real-life friendship. Whether she was complicit or oblivious, Bartiromo was playing her role in a common ritual of Hollywood ballyhoo, wherein a production in trouble reaches out to a reliably supine celebrity journalist to help with positive buzz.

If the first 100 days of Trump’s presidency were a movie — with a temperamental reality-TV star making his big-screen acting and directing debut — Trump’s encounter with Xi might be called “the dessert scene,” a pivotal moment at the end of Act 1 that he recounts with the gusto of an actor who just hit all of his marks in one take. (Tellingly, he remembered the visual detail of the cake perfectly but flubbed the country where he sent the missiles, initially saying he bombed Iraq, not Syria.)

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:10 AM on April 14, 2017 [9 favorites]

Lady Peggington

are we not doing phrasing anymore
posted by Existential Dread at 9:11 AM on April 14, 2017 [24 favorites]

zakur: "Fox host: Dropping MOAB is "what freedom looks like, that's the red, white, and blue.""

oh hey, guys, I think I figured out why they hate our freedom
posted by RobotHero at 9:22 AM on April 14, 2017 [88 favorites]

Palm Beach Post: Complaints aside, charities plan to stick with Trump’s Mar-a-Lago

In fact, the allure of the “winter White House,” which also is the world’s most famous private club, caused a jump in ticket sales for charities hosting their big fundraisers this past season.

“People will pay huge amounts of money to have access to the president. If you can donate to a charity and have access, that’s a win in my book,” one major donor said.

“With him coming here every weekend, it’s making Mar-a-Lago the place to go,” agreed Harvey Oyer, a West Palm Beach attorney and frequent charity attendee. “You may have the existing president walk in on your event.”

Case in point: This year’s International Red Cross Ball, where Trump not only stopped by, “he stayed three hours,” said Oyer, who attended the Feb. 4 gala.

The buzz is prompting organizers to expand the size of their events next season so they can raise even more money for their causes.

Name and shame. Fuck every charity that uses Mar-a-Lago.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:24 AM on April 14, 2017 [75 favorites]

Much of the "Liberal Media" (EXTREME SARCASM QUOTES) has had not a "Derangement Syndrome" but a "Brainwash Syndrome" toward this second-rate con artist for YEARS. Exhibit One: the symbiotic relationship between CNN and Trump. (And that's from the NYT which could have destroyed him with a little investigative reporting decades back but went for his real estate ad $$$ instead) He is no "insurgent" at anything; he's been part of the Media/WallStreet/NewYork ecosystem all his life, albeit a parasitical one. Remember the pictures of Trump and the Clintons, especially this one with him seeming grabbing at Bill's ????

I don't expect an impeachment move until TrumpYear2, and only if the polls and tea leaves suggest a pro-Dem wave election and enough Reps believe they can pin all the blame of Dishonest Don.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:27 AM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

To be clear, Fareed Zakaria is critical of Trump insofar as he thinks bombing a Syrian air base is only a good start. He wants to see a sustained US military attack on Syrians and is disappointed that Trump seems to have only tossed this one off to distract from political problems at home. This 100% reflects the view of the US foreign policy establishment that stretches across party lines. They are itching to get us into another war.

In a way, I think the world is better off that we elected a bumbling oaf who watches TV all day instead of a stone cold psychopath with the wherewithal and the institutional backing to get us into another sustained overseas war. Small consolation, I know, but at least the news is not all grim.
posted by indubitable at 9:42 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

The left doesn't have to do jack shit to foment hatred—except tell the truth.

During the speech a supporter yelled out “Give ’em Hell, Harry!”

Truman replied, “I don’t give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it’s Hell.”

posted by kirkaracha at 9:48 AM on April 14, 2017 [27 favorites]

As it has done for the past six years, Boston's Dana-Farber Cancer Institute held a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago this year. For some reason, it left the name of the place out in its annual newsletter write-up this year.
posted by adamg at 9:50 AM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

In a way, I think the world is better off that we elected a bumbling oaf who watches TV all day instead of a stone cold psychopath with the wherewithal and the institutional backing to get us into another sustained overseas war. Small consolation, I know, but at least the news is not all grim.

Fuck no. Trump is rattling sabers at Syria, North Korea, and Iran while dropping bombs on Afghistan and accidentally-because-we-don't-care blowing up mosques in Iraq.

The "foreign policy consensus" people are all about engaging in "small" wars to avoid "big" wars. Their whole goal is to stop WWIII from happening, by containing threats before they escalate and spread. Sometimes they miscalculate and a "small" war turns out to be bigger than they expected. And there is something kind of cold blooded in that kind of utilitarianism, since people still die in "small" wars.

But there is NO WAY we are better off with the bumbling oaf who loves war for its own sake, and the bigger the better, because it makes great TV. And who, by the way, apparently answers to a foreign government whose greatest goal is to weaken America. I'll take another Vietnam or Iraq over WWIII, "this time with nukes" even if I'd rather have neither. We are NOT better off.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:51 AM on April 14, 2017 [14 favorites]

In a way, I think the world is better off that we elected a bumbling oaf who watches TV all day instead of a stone cold psychopath with the wherewithal and the institutional backing to get us into another sustained overseas war.

Seriously, if you think world peace is safer with Mr "Bomb the Shit out of them" in power, you haven't been paying attention at all. "Torture works." "You have to take out their families." "And this time, take the oil."

You realize Trump is sending troops into Syria already, right?

You realize he's stepped up drone strikes?

You realize we're killing civilians now at record rates, right?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:56 AM on April 14, 2017 [41 favorites]

The "foreign policy consensus" people are all about engaging in "small" wars to avoid "big" wars.

Right, they're monsters who unironically believe in humanitarian bombing and are completely isolated from the consequences of their actions. We are still militarily involved in Iraq and Afghanistan more than a decade after engaging in those "small" wars at the behest of the foreign policy establishment. Libya is a chaotic, blood-soaked mess of rival militias where the slave trade is booming and a constant source of refugees so desperate to flee that many of them drown while crossing the Mediterranean in rickety boats. It's madness.
posted by indubitable at 9:58 AM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

The "foreign policy consensus" people are all about engaging in "small" wars to avoid "big" wars. Their whole goal is to stop WWIII from happening, by containing threats before they escalate and spread. Sometimes they miscalculate and a "small" war turns out to be bigger than they expected. And there is something kind of cold blooded in that kind of utilitarianism, since people still die in "small" wars.

But there is NO WAY we are better off with the bumbling oaf who loves war for its own sake, and the bigger the better, because it makes great TV. And who, by the way, apparently answers to a foreign government whose greatest goal is to weaken America. I'll take another Vietnam or Iraq over WWIII, "this time with nukes" even if I'd rather have neither. We are NOT better off.

I'll grant that a bumbling oaf who fires off missiles on a whim based on whichever bloodthirsty general spoke to him last is deeply dangerous, but this definitely begs the question as to whether these 'small wars' actually have any effect on forestalling some hypothetical WWIII. Vietnam and Iraq were not about containing a threat; we were the threat.

These were wars of choice, wars of empire. Fucking hell, our misadventures in Iraq are why ISIS exists today. These are our messes, sold to us by the Fareed Zakarias and Colin Powells of the world. Hillary Clinton and President Dementia are aligned in their desires to bomb the shit out of Syria. The procreation of Empire persists, whether or not we have senile Fox grampaw in the White House or not. He might make it more unpredictable and dangerous, but it's a matter of degrees at this point.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:01 AM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

ZeusHumms: "I'd argue that Trump isn't as invested in the process of winning as much as he likes 'being' a winner."

Would you say that he hates winning but loves having won?
posted by mhum at 10:01 AM on April 14, 2017

Right, they're monsters who unironically believe in humanitarian bombing

Madness is increasing the Defense Department's budget by $54 billion while slashing the State Department's budget by more than a third (and refusing to staff it), ending foreign aid, banning refugees, relaxing the rules of engagement, sending troops to multiple fronts, stepping up bombing and trying to have a foreign policy that consists entirely of mixed messages and chest beating threats.

You may not like the Condoleeza Rice types -- neither do I much -- but Trump is Not. Better.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:02 AM on April 14, 2017 [11 favorites]

You may not like the Condoleeza Rice types

Hillary Clinton types

“I think we should have been more willing to confront Assad,” Clinton said in the interview, conducted by New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof.

“I really believe we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them.”

Clinton noted that she had advocated for a no-fly zone in Syria after leaving government, something that Obama opposed.

6 April 2017
posted by indubitable at 10:06 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

Clinton noted that she had advocated for a no-fly zone in Syria after leaving government, something that Obama opposed.

This kind of shit is crazy to me. A no-fly zone isn't some sort of cooling off DMZ or something you do as a one-off; it's constant, round-the-clock fighter jet patrols and sorties, in airspace that Russia is using for military actions. It's expensive, hard on pilots and crew, and directly increases the likelihood of a US-Russia confrontation or crash.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's how you would prevent Assad bombing people though, if that's a goal.
posted by Artw at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

The problem is we don't have a coherent strategy or goal. If saving lives and humanitarian actions are the goal, let the damned refugees in, support foreign aid, and get some fucking diplomacy going. If avoiding WWIII is the goal, then for love of dog don't put a bunch of fighter jets with relaxed rules of engagement in the same airspace as a bunch of fucking Russians doing the same thing.

If stopping bombing is the goal, then I guess by all means put a no-fly zone in place. This is meaningless if not supported by a coherent strategy, and puts everyone at greater risk.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:17 AM on April 14, 2017 [13 favorites]

but it's a matter of degrees at this point.

No, it's the qualitative difference between people who are willing to use violence because they believe the means justify the end, and people for whom violence is an end in itself.

The foreign policy establishment has screwed up in some pretty colossal ways (like Vietnam and Iraq) and killed a lot of innocent people, but it remains a fact that war has (until now) been on the decline. And that we are actually in a very unusually peaceful period of human history.

There is indeed such a thing as humanitarian bombing. Though I believe it's pretty rare that miltary action does more good than harm, there are situations, like WWII or the Civil War where it's really hard to argue that it didn't. Because sometimes it's the only way to stop evil people who also have bombs. Sometimes "we must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere."

Hillary Clinton is more interventionist than I am and I get it if you think that's a moral flaw, but that really is a matter of degrees. When should we intervene? I think more rarely than we have. But to say we should never intervene anywhere, no matter how bad the oppression or how great the on-going slaughter or genocide -- and no matter how unstable the situation, how likely to escalate and spread...? I think that is a monstrous selfishness (and self-defeating, because conflicts do spread.)

But even worse than that is Trump's mindset, which is "We'll use force whenever we need to show people who's boss. Or whenever they have something we want." -- "Take the oil" is the real mindset of "empire".
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:23 AM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]

This is meaningless if not supported by a coherent strategy, and puts everyone at greater risk.

The problem in a nutshell. It's all flailing horseshit that makes the GWB years look coherent.
posted by Artw at 10:27 AM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hillary Clinton is more interventionist than I am and I get it if you think that's a moral flaw, but that really is a matter of degrees. When should we intervene? I think more rarely than we have. But to say we should never intervene anywhere, no matter how bad the oppression or how great the on-going slaughter or genocide -- and no matter how unstable the situation, how likely to escalate and spread...? I think that is a monstrous selfishness (and self-defeating, because conflicts do spread.)

The Clintons are probably interventionist because they have the ghosts of Rwanda keeping them up at night. A good example when intervention should have been taken but wasn't. And millions died or had their lives ruined for it. It's a good enough reason to say "never again" IMHO.
posted by Talez at 10:28 AM on April 14, 2017 [53 favorites]

Also, that Serbian intervention was arguably successful.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:29 AM on April 14, 2017 [11 favorites]

The "foreign policy consensus" people are all about engaging in "small" wars to avoid "big" wars.

With big wars you can buy in bulk and get a discount! Run government like a business!
posted by XMLicious at 10:31 AM on April 14, 2017

Also, that Serbian intervention was arguably successful.

The people who argue against are generally the Serbs.
posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

Also, that Serbian intervention was arguably successful.

Masha Gessen, March 2014: Crimea Is Putin’s Revenge - On March 24, 1999, the U.S. bombed Kosovo. Putin has been planning his payback ever since.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:44 AM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ryan Lizza on Bannon vs the world: Steve Bannon's Nationalist Team Prepares for the Long Game. He sees the Bannon wing as describing this as "only the beginning of the war," with more to come as Trumpists "start infiltrating Congress." On Syria:

Trump’s foreign-policy nationalism breaks with the recent G.O.P. view around one crucial issue: values. Trump almost never speaks about human rights, democracy-building, or Western values as something that the United States has a mission to spread. He speaks of American foreign policy only in terms of interests. Even after the missile strike in Syria, an attack that many human-rights lawyers and liberal internationalists defended, Trump tried to avoid moralistic language, framing the attack as a deterrent that would promote stability. Trump and his advisers have also lived up to their promise of abandoning a values-based foreign policy during meetings in recent weeks with autocrats from Egypt, Russia, and China, who were unburdened by lectures about democracy and human rights.

The argument here is that Bannon-style "America first" nationalism is still compatible with blowing stuff up halfway around with world with big American bombs, just as long as it doesn't come coupled with pesky talk about democracy or human rights. I'm not sure I buy that––certainly that nuance wasn't explained during the campaign––, but if nothing else, it's interesting the extent to which the Bannon wing is going to insist they haven't lost here.
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 AM on April 14, 2017 [7 favorites]

I am of the personal opinion that our interest in encouraging democracy to other nations is often kinda stupid. Successful democracy really requires certain levels of personal safety and autonomy that seem like they're not often well established or even existent in places where we've talked this up as an end-all be-all. I think we'd be far better served advocating and working towards governments where people get basic rights and autonomy before we worry about whether they've played a direct role in selection of their leaders. If nothing else it might help us to avoid this nonsense where we are enthralled by democratic elections... right up till the people select, say, Hamas at which point we become less enthused by a government that represents the desire of the governed.
posted by phearlez at 11:04 AM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

Bannon's nationalism was never isolationist, and neither was Trump's.

In dozens of hours of audio recordings reviewed by USA TODAY of his Breitbart News Daily radio show in 2015 and 2016, Bannon told his listeners that the United States and the Western world are engaged in a “global existential war,”
[...]
[Bannon] has said that Islam is “the most radical” religion in the world and the U.S. is engaged in a civilizational struggle potentially leading to “a major shooting war in the Middle East again.”
[...]
“We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years, aren’t we?” he said in March 2016. “There’s no doubt about that."

And Trump ran on "bomb the shit out of" ISIS and "You have to take out their families" and "Take the oil" and a bigger military.

His base doesn't mind foreign wars. They mind foreign wars justified by humanitarian concerns. "America first" means war is not about fostering democracy, it's about "What's in it for us?" But it doesn't mean less war. It means more. It means making violence a first resort when we have conflicts with other nations, because to compromise means NOT putting America First. Nationalism ALWAYS leads to wars.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:05 AM on April 14, 2017 [22 favorites]

The people who argue against are generally the Serbs.

Pretty sure Germans weren't too thrilled with losing WWII either but play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
posted by asteria at 11:14 AM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

"Unilateral" is possibly a better description of the Bannon doctrine. Or "out and out at war with everyone else including big chunks of America".
posted by Artw at 11:15 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Trump's Base Turns on Him (Politico)

Actual content of story: "Three Members of Trump's Base Say Less-Than-Complimentary Things About Him, But Would Still Vote For Him Over Hillary or Any Other Democrat if The Election Were Held Today"

I'm so done with these "let's interview three Trump voters and draw conclusions from it" stories. The numbers show that his base still loves him. The disapproval ratings are from the other ~70% of the country.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:19 AM on April 14, 2017 [45 favorites]

Judge Orders Trump to Pay $300K for Stiffing Paint Company on Golf Resort Renovation

This was ruled on appeal, but Trump can still appeal to the FL Supreme Court.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:20 AM on April 14, 2017 [13 favorites]

cjelli: Time - The White House Will Keep Its Visitor Logs Secret
...
The drain just got ten feet swampier.

Good news: when you keep pumping sludge into a swamp, it's bound to leak. More sludge, more leaks.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:23 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

I see they're saying "Up to 36 IS fighters killed in MOAB attack".

Assuming that's close, at 16 million for the bomb it cost about a half-million each to kill them.

Aside from propaganda value, I'm not seeing any return in strategic or tactical goals.

Add this to the 90 million in wasted cruise missiles, again without return in strategic or tactical goals.

Aren't there any fiscal conservatives left? Are there any adults in the room?

( obvs. answer: No. They stayed away from this trainwreck before it even left the station )
posted by mikelieman at 11:26 AM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,”

(A) Yeah, they're not . . they're not good.
(B) They were too busy squirreling away all the evidence to impeach Il Toupeé
(C) Of course they knew, they *wanted* collusion
(D) cake
posted by petebest at 11:27 AM on April 14, 2017

And Trump ran on "bomb the shit out of" ISIS and "You have to take out their families" and "Take the oil" and a bigger military.

The key paradox then is why the guy who ran on all this stuff, many of them violations of international law, not to mention an unhealthy fixation with nuclear weapons, was reported by the pundit class as the less hawkish, non-interventionist candidate. People willfully blinded themselves to half or more of what he said during the campaign, cherry-picking out his lies about not supporting the Iraq war, to construct this ridiculous narrative about his foreign policy.

Meanwhile, Clinton's efforts to pragmatically work with countries of strategic importance that are sure as heck not about to become beacons of human rights and democracy anytime soon were viewed as betrayals by the left, because how dare we talk to anyone unless they share all the values Trump is trying to destroy?
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on April 14, 2017 [21 favorites]

His base doesn't mind foreign wars. They mind foreign wars justified by humanitarian concerns. "America first" means war is not about fostering democracy, it's about "What's in it for us?" But it doesn't mean less war. It means more. It means making violence a first resort when we have conflicts with other nations, because to compromise means NOT putting America First. Nationalism ALWAYS leads to wars.

Yes, I feel like this is the mindset folks are missing when they try to appeal to the most diehard Trump fans by using higher values of integrity, democracy, and America's responsibility. "America First" is very specifically couched in a hyper-nationalistic and white supremacist framing. There are people who want the U.S. to strongarm the rest of the world, and indeed the least of its own citizens and residents, because that's what strong people do in their minds.

I think this is also part of why pointing out the parallels to Nazism and public complacence is lost on Trump's supporters (or outright dismissed). Opposition to Nazism and atrocity for them was never about doing the ideologically ethical and moral thing, but rather about being seen as the victor against the bad guys. They see themselves and the U.S. as "everyone's hero," with all actions cast in that light. Taking oil from sovereign countries, indiscriminately bombing as a show of force, trying to aggressively renegotiate trade deals, picking fights with allied countries? To them, not a problem when the good guy does it.
posted by orbit-3 at 11:29 AM on April 14, 2017 [25 favorites]

It's actually $8.72M each, mikelieman. $314M for the MOAB divided by 36. God this is morbid as fuck.
posted by yoga at 11:40 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

DeVos Pick to Head Civil Rights Office Once Said She Faced Discrimination for Being White

-- The new acting head of the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights once complained that she experienced discrimination because she is white.

-- Although her limited background in civil rights law makes it difficult to infer her positions on specific issues, Jackson’s writings during and after college suggest she’s likely to steer one of the Education Department’s most important — and controversial — branches in a different direction than her predecessors. A longtime anti-Clinton activist and an outspoken conservative-turned-libertarian, she has denounced feminism and race-based preferences. She’s also written favorably about, and helped edit a book by, an economist who decried both compulsory education and the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964.

-- In 2005, Jackson wrote a book on the allegations of sexual misconduct against Bill Clinton, titled “Their Lives: The Women Targeted by the Clinton Machine.” She gained national attention last October after she arranged for several of Bill Clinton’s accusers to attend a presidential debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Jackson sat with the women in the front of the audience.

The new acting head of the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights, unfuckingbelievable. I could barely get through the article.
posted by futz at 11:41 AM on April 14, 2017 [57 favorites]

I think the correct description now is "drain the swamp and fill the Mar-a-Lago pool".
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:42 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

Aren't there any fiscal conservatives left?

we need to stop pretending that "fiscal conservatives" care about anything except low tax rates.

deficits are just a whip for republicans to obstruct democratic administrations or paper-thin justifications to slash social programs under republican administrations.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:47 AM on April 14, 2017 [37 favorites]

Why is anyone surprised that any Post-Tea-Party-Republican Administration is filling all its Civil-Rights-oriented positions with ANTI-Civil-Rights activists? It's like I assumed from Day One that Climate Change Denial* was a REQUIREMENT for Environmental positions.

Aren't there any fiscal conservatives left?
They went extinct midway through the Bush Sr. administration. (Remember then?)

*I still believe the Deniers are privately Pro-Climate-Change, heavily invested in air conditioners and properties at higher elevations (future beachfronts).
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:53 AM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's actually $8.72M each, mikelieman. $314M for the MOAB divided by 36. God this is morbid as fuck.

Morbid indeed. As penance and to normalize this discussion:

The optimum values for almost all cases is killing no-one while spending nothing.
posted by mikelieman at 11:55 AM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

They went extinct midway through the Bush Sr. administration. (Remember then?)

I remember it very, very clearly. Unpatriotic Conservatives by David Frum March 25, 2003 9:00 AM
posted by mikelieman at 12:00 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

Some links:

China issues stern warning to U.S., North Korea over their growing tensions. China is clearly eager to be the responsible ones here and wants to show it can manage a crisis in its own backyard:

“The United States and South Korea and North Korea are engaging in tit for tat, with swords drawn and bows bent,” Wang said at a news conference after a meeting with visiting French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault, Xinhua reported. “We urge all parties to refrain from inflammatory or threatening statements or deeds to prevent irreversible damage to the situation on the Korean Peninsula.”

If they allow war to break out on the peninsula, they must bear the historical responsibility and “pay the corresponding price,” Wang warned. In the event of war, “multiple parties will lose, and no one will win,” he said. “It is not the one who espouses hasher rhetoric or raises a bigger fist that will win.”

Caille Millner: Reinventing language to ‘reaccommodate’ corporate priorities, in which Spicer's "Holocaust centers" and Oscar Muñoz's "accommodate" are evaluated as "corporatized language," the language of Kafka, not the totalitarian language of Orwell.

Jackie Evancho still waiting for White House meeting with Trump. Inauguration singer with trans sister asked for a meeting, and Spicer said that could happen, but none has been scheduled.

Andy Slavitt ran Medicare under Obama for a few years and now has a USA Today op-ed slot. He explains that Republicans have been sabotaging Obamacare from the very start, which is precisely the kind of thing USA Today's readers need to know:

A little history is in order. Republican sabotage of the ACA predates Trump’s presidency. Championed first by outside groups and lawyers, one of the GOP’s biggest victories was stripping funding to insurers that was designed to keep rates from rising too fast. When Congress removed the money after the fact, among the first victims were a dozen or so new health plans called co-ops, included in the ACA to add competition in low-competition areas.

The law’s opponents went beyond garden-variety political tactics. They filed numerous lawsuits to cripple the ACA by pulling out core pieces. Insurers reported being warned by Republican congressional leaders not to participate. And, most notably, Republican governors or legislatures in 19 states turned down funds to cover millions under Medicaid.

The results of this sabotage include higher premiums, higher costs to taxpayers, millions of people in Southern and rural states left without insurance, and only one or two competitors left in many markets as insurers withdrew or were forced out of business. All so Republicans could point to the ACA and say, "See, it doesn't work."

posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on April 14, 2017 [34 favorites]

Former MI6 chief Richard Dearlove says Donald Trump borrowed money from Russia during 2008 financial crisis
posted by futz at 12:05 PM on April 14, 2017 [22 favorites]

Josh Marshall on Trump and the Problem of Militant Ignorance:

So far the Trump Presidency has been a sort of Mr Magoo performance art in which the comically ignorant Trump learns elemental or basic things that virtually everyone in the world of politics or government already knew – things that the majority of adults probably know. Health Care: “Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.” North Korea: “I felt pretty strongly that they had tremendous power. But it’s not what you think.” There are perhaps half a dozen examples equally stark.

In other words, President Trump is open about his discoveries and even eager to share them but universally projects his previous state of comical ignorance onto the general public or whomever he is talking to. In other cases, this would make sense. If Trump discovered that humans could fly if they hold their nose, close one eye and say “Shazam!” I’d want to know. Because that’s awesome. And I wouldn’t think worse of Trump for not knowing it before. Because this is new and amazing information. But learning that health care policy is complicated is a different kind of discovery.

Remaining ignorant is probably a good adaptive strategy for him because it allows him to pretend that everything is obvious, that he can solve any problem and generally act like he can do anything – in a way, this allowed him to become President.

It's terrifying how much willful ignorance has become a virtue, while expertise has become worthy of contempt in certain circles.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:15 PM on April 14, 2017 [49 favorites]

Well I guess great minds and all. On a slightly sillier note, I tried holding my nose, closing one eye, and saying "Shazam!" while jumping off the bed. I'm sad to report, though, that I could not fly.

I am not good at the aspect of being a bird.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:25 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's terrifying how much willful ignorance has become a virtue, while expertise has become worthy of contempt in certain circles.

Education/expertise is considered a virtue in white supremacist patriarchy only insofar as it acts as a gatekeeper of white men's power. Since access to education is no longer limited to white men, it no longer serves its purpose as a gatekeeping tool.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:33 PM on April 14, 2017 [44 favorites]

President Trump is open about his discoveries and even eager to share them but universally projects his previous state of comical ignorance onto the general public or whomever he is talking to. In other cases, this would make sense.
Well, if it finally teaches something to part of his constituency who are as dumb/ignorant as he is, it may help some.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:38 PM on April 14, 2017

The key paradox then is why the guy who ran on all this stuff, many of them violations of international law, not to mention an unhealthy fixation with nuclear weapons, was reported by the pundit class as the less hawkish, non-interventionist candidate.

Or mentally fit. DR. OZ AND THE DUDE were the proffered experts who vouched for his health ffs.

Why not elect a squirrel? They know almost as much and won't bork up the Congressional nation-burning agenda with ill-timed tweetphasia.
posted by petebest at 12:48 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

I realize that I'm obsessively checking the news, waiting with bated breath for the inevitable holiday weekend Friday afternoon bad news dump. I should probably get a life instead.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:50 PM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sez who?!
posted by petebest at 12:51 PM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

I remember it very, very clearly. Unpatriotic Conservatives by David Frum March 25, 2003 9:00 AM

All this throwback to the darkest days of the Iraq war cheerleading makes me newly distraught at the thought of David fucking Frum as the voice of the #nevertrump resistance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:52 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

The new acting head of the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights once complained that she experienced discrimination because she is white.

Jesus Christ, this is going to be such a fucking disaster, not just ideologically but in terms of professional competence. Some of OCR's work is incredibly subtle, like identifying patterns of bias in IDEA category choice or illuminating the ways that under AND over identification can violate the civil rights of the same group of children. (Remember, the current Secretary of Education literally did not know what IDEA was before she got the job.) Giving OCR to someone whose understanding of racial justice is at the "reverse racism" level is an act of criminal malevolence that will destroy the lives of innocent American schoolchildren.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:53 PM on April 14, 2017 [45 favorites]

I had an interesting conversation with the neighbor across the hard road the other day. I live in deep red Georgia, the 10th congressional district (one of the most conservative in the country, according to our Freedom Caucus rep, Jody Hice), and my neighbor is a Christian dominionist with 9 homeschooled kids. One time, he came over to borrow a bee smoker from me and ended up actually reading to me from the copy of the Federalist Papers he apparently carries around with him everywhere. Another time, he hung a big rebel flag with a picture of an AK-47 and the words "Come and Take It" on his front porch. Confusingly, he had draped the flag across several old refrigerators sitting out there, kind of the way you'd leave an old couch on the curb, so it was unclear for a while whether he meant "come and take my rebel flag, I dare you," or "free refrigerators, you haul 'em."

Anyway, the other day he was out working in the yard so I hollered to him, and he came across the road to the fence and we chatted. We agreed that where we live is beautiful, especially in the spring. "It's just too bad this road is here," said my neighbor. "Cars, that's the only drawback."

"That problem will be solved once we blow up that bridge," I said, pointing up the road at the small bridge that crosses the Appalachee River and is the only reasonable way to get to Athens. I was kind of kidding, but then also kind of not. Sometimes I think about how I'd protect my small, wide spot in the road in case of an outbreak of...what? Bird flu? Civil unrest? My daydreams always start with blowing up that bridge, because then we'd be cut off. I kind of expected my neighbor to laugh, or something, but he did not miss a beat.

"Yes," he said, totally serious, "That would be the first thing we'd do. I've already talked to Mr. X (another neighbor) about that and he's on board with it. Everything bad comes from that direction. But then, there's over there (he pointed in the opposite direction, where the road disappeared around a curve)..."

"We'd just have to put up a roadblock," I said, "And take turns staffing it."

"Yep," said my neighbor. "We have to be thinking about things like this, because let me tell you, the shit is about to hit the fan in this country, big time."

"It already has," I said. He's a Trump voter, like all of my neighbors. He thinks the shit is hitting the fan because Democrats won't stop making up Russia allegations and are going to spur a civil war. I think the shit is hitting the fan, because, well, you know.

"OK," I said, "While we're on this topic, I want to talk to you about something that's been on my mind."

"Shoot," he said.

"Listen. If there is civil unrest in America, if there is some kind of war, or something, I know we have our disagreements politically, I know you are very conservative and I am very liberal --"

"Oh, I love libraries!" he interrupted, throwing up his hands and speaking in a high-pitched voice, mocking me.

"Right," I said, "But in spite of this, if something really bad does happen, I promise not to kill your whole family if you promise not to kill mine."

"Staggering," he stuck out his hand for me to shake, "You are my community, and your community IS your family. It's all we can really count on."

I shook his hand. "Well, you can count on me not to kill your family. Remember, it's a deal."

"I'll remember," he said. "Likewise."
posted by staggering termagant at 12:56 PM on April 14, 2017 [103 favorites]

I'll bet the biggest reason Trump doesn't want the White House visitor logs released is because he doesn't want to let us know on what day he gets his weave done.
posted by PenDevil at 1:01 PM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm so done with these "let's interview three Trump voters and draw conclusions from it" stories.

Agreed. This is the new "Trending on Twitter: Something Important?!" Lazy corporate assholery.

I won't link to the new article in TIME* but the first sentence is "Some women who voted for Trump may be rethinking their choice, a new focus group survey said."

Wow. Stop the fucking press. Don't commit, TIME*, leave yourselves an out at least!

*Because nothing spells classy brand like all caps AMIRITE
posted by petebest at 1:02 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

A Trump Tower Neighbor Is the Point Man for Europe’s Populists

When it came to Italy, though, Mr. Trump’s interest centered on demonstrating the innocence of Amanda Knox, an American college student accused of murder in Perugia. Mr. Trump often spoke out and posted on Twitter in support of Ms. Knox, and asked Mr. Lombardi to look into her case during a trip to Italy. Now, Mr. Lombardi said, the president is “very upset” with the ingratitude of Ms. Knox, who supported Hillary Clinton.

This man is truly obsessed with anything that appears on cable news.
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

Obama did a lot of things, because they wouldn't have gotten done at all otherwise, through executive orders that can be easily tossed aside by the next administration.

Speaking of which...

Donald Trump Has Overtaken Barack Obama On Executive Orders ("Why is @BarackObama constantly issuing executive orders that are major power grabs of authority?" Trump once tweeted, just to compound the hypocrisy.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:07 PM on April 14, 2017 [25 favorites]

Incidentally on the topic of foreign relations, the Shadow Brokers released NSA files, including fairly extensive notes about the US hacking international banking systems and attack tools. I doubt the timing is coincidental on several fronts.
posted by Candleman at 1:10 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

I shook his hand. "Well, you can count on me not to kill your family. Remember, it's a deal.

JFC. I cannot imagine. I live in a bright blue spot on the map. I just cannot imagine having to worry about whether or not my dominionist neighbor will come and kill me and my family. I'm really glad you spoke with him though. I hope we don't have to blow up the bridge.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:13 PM on April 14, 2017 [22 favorites]

Room 641-A: Instead, the agency plans to spend the money on eight model walls, planning, engineering and early-stage land acquisition.

compartment: Trump: "What is this? A wall for ants!? How can we stop immigrants if they're taller than the wall!? It has to be at least ... three times longer than this!"

Jokes aside, this is how you develop a mega-project, especially a public project on land you, the government, do not yet own.

Planning and engineering ensure you design the right way in each location. I hope they also have a ton of money set aside to handle all the lawsuits, which have started to come in (NY Times, Apri 13, 2017). In addition to environmental groups, look for lawsuits from Native American tribes and hundreds of land owners. Unfortunately, history (and legal precedence) is on the side of the government.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:15 PM on April 14, 2017 [10 favorites]

I posted about considering a move to somewhere (Canada?) recently and got yelled at about privilege. Absolutely, absolutely the fact that I can even think about moving somewhere definitely reveals that I am privileged, I definitely know that's true. But I seriously think I am the only non-Trump supporter in my county (I know I am in my little community), and it is hard to live here, sometimes.

I don't want to start an argument about whether it's OK to leave if you can, I really don't. But I will say that when I read stories today about Jewish people who emigrated from Germany in 1933 with their families, the stories are always cast as "lucky, prescient person who saw the writing on the wall and was thus able to save his/her own (sometimes extended) family from the horrors that were about to come" and never as "privileged asshole who should have stayed where he/she was and perished with the rest of them."

I know this is incendiary, possibly, and I am not really planning on leaving, just daydreaming about it the same way I do about blowing up the bridge. In spite of the fact that everyone around me thinks Trump is doing a FANTASTIC job, in spite of the gerrymandering that prevents votes from counting, I'm not leaving, I'm calling, and marching, and writing articles for my local paper, and ambushing Hice at the gastroenterologist's office. Nonetheless, it is discouraging. I fear for the future.
posted by staggering termagant at 1:29 PM on April 14, 2017 [75 favorites]

You are not alone, staggering termagent.
posted by yoga at 1:42 PM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]

Staggering termagant - as a fairly privileged person and as a person who is also at major risk, I think everyone needs to do what feels right to them. I don't have kids, so staying and fighting is SO SO much easier for me, because I only have grown people to consider. If I had littles, I'd probably be doing an entirely different calculus. At least where I'm concerned, no one but you knows what's best for you and we would all be better off if we remembered that.

I've been writing a once-daily FB post called Good Morning from the Resistance. It's little daily reminders for activists on how to remain sane and resilient during this time. A lot of it has been reminders that we are all fighting a hard fight in our own ways and to respect that everyone is going to do this differently. Some people may be fighting from an angry, rageful place while another person is being equally effective but using gallows humor to cope. We absolutely need to be respectful of all of our coping mechanisms in order to get through this slog. It's going to be hard. We need each other.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:43 PM on April 14, 2017 [23 favorites]

Charles Pierce: Is Trump Actually in Charge? Or Is It Worse Than We Feared?

Years ago, Fletcher Knebel wrote a novel called Night At Camp David about a president who'd gone mad. The evidence for that was that the bughouse president was lost in grandiose delusions about his place in the world. Knebel, you may recall, also was the co-author of the rather more famous Seven Days in May, which concerned a military plot to take over the government. Lately, I've come to see these two books as being parts of the same whole, like the Lord of the Rings saga, or Dune. I have come to the conclusion that the president* has slipped his gears and that his control over the military—and over foreign policy—is as tenuous as his hold on rationality is. I have not felt this shaky about the state of the world since October of 1962.

posted by homunculus at 2:09 PM on April 14, 2017 [13 favorites]

I know this is incendiary, possibly

Not incendiary at all. Everyone has the unseen risk calculation they have to perform for themselves. Your observation about people who escaped from Germany is spot on. I think the only reasonable obligation you could consider of anyone is that they continue to fight for values of kindness, integrity, and justice in whatever capacity they are able and wherever they land.
posted by orbit-3 at 2:12 PM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

So far, I keep meeting other liberals/democrats/sane people enough that I still have the hope of staying here (also: being a refugee sucks, so running away is definitely a last-gasp option; secondarily, moving states is a huge upheaval and again, expensive, so I'm reluctant to do it and unsure of the benefits).

I met about 12 people yesterday at a "Eat Pizza and Write Your Legislators" meetup at my church, and learned a bit quite a bit about local politics and upcoming local races in May. I have anywhere from 8-20 people coming to my house next week for a precinct meetup to brainstorm and commiserate. The Science March is coming up next weekend. I probably know more local Democrats now than at any prior time in my life.

The husband is freaking out about N. Korea but I don't know where I could run to that would make that less of a concern. If things go bad, I feel like they'll go bad everywhere, and if they don't, I need to keep doing what I'm doing.
posted by emjaybee at 2:23 PM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]

staggering termagant: "I know this is incendiary, possibly, and I am not really planning on leaving"

I mean, I don't know how seriously to take your preceding anecdote about your neighbor (i.e.: was it more like "ha-hah just joshing around" or "we better get this straight today so we don't have any misunderstandings tomorrow"?), but personally if I had to have handshake agreements with my neighbors to make sure we understood that we weren't going to mutually murder each other, I'd probably want to take a look at relocation too. I mean, sure, you've got an agreement with that neighbor... but what about the others?
posted by mhum at 2:37 PM on April 14, 2017 [10 favorites]

I mean, sure, you've got an agreement with that neighbor... but what about the others?

Also: have you read "The Dark Forest"? Once you take the idea of civil war seriously, like suppose your nutbag community is actually about to blow the bridge and man roadblocks with some kind of improvised militia, it's rational for your neighbor to be concerned that you won't keep to your word not to murder him and his family, and to kill you first, before you can kill him. And you are in the same position. If it were me, worrying about my "privilege" in being able to flee such a situation is something I'd defer until after I was gone.
posted by thelonius at 2:47 PM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]

when I read stories today about Jewish people who emigrated from Germany in 1933 with their families, the stories are always cast as "lucky, prescient person who saw the writing on the wall and was thus able to save his/her own (sometimes extended) family from the horrors that were about to come"

The idea that taking refuge from danger is an inappropriate abuse of privilege is a bit strange to me... Asking people "Why don't you just get out of there?" reflects an ignorance of privilege and deprivation, but that's not what's happening here.

But anyway, the US in 2017 is a long way from Germany in 1933. To get a sense of that risk, I've been reading Why the Germans? Why the Jews?: Envy, Race Hatred, and the Prehistory of the Holocaust. He makes a strong case that anti-Semitism arose and became so virulent for the following reasons:

1. The initial emancipation of the Jews was imposed by Napoleon around the turn of the 19th Century, and was therefore seen a demand from an outside force rather than something Germans had decided for themselves.
2. Anti-Semitism began as sheer spite for the oppressed, but as it became clear that Jewish culture was much better adapted to the tumult of modernity than Catholicism or Protestantism and Jews were "getting ahead" more than the majority, it took an envious turn and became intertwined with socialism in messy ways.
3. Thanks to WWI and the Treaty of Versailles, most Germans led desperate, uncertain lives, and bounced between whichever crazy leader seemed to offer them hope at the moment. One day it could be the "Bavarian Soviet Republic" (I am not making this up) and the next the Nazis. That instability, and the fact that the German government felt compelled by the treaty to cooperate with the victors, weakened both the German people's faith in its nascent democratic institutions, and the influence those institutions had over the course of the country.

That's as far as I've gotten... I'm up to the late 20s so far. But the US has nowhere near the depth of hatred, instability, desperation or humiliation which enabled Hitler's rise. It would take at least a decade for the US to get to that point from here. If you really wanted to draw that kind of analogy, you'd have to say the US is more like Germany in 1910, except it indisputably dominates the planet and has a strong tradition of democratic governance and liberal values. (Not as strong a tradition on the liberal values as on democracy, but way better than Germany's.)
posted by Coventry at 2:49 PM on April 14, 2017 [11 favorites]

MetaFilter: Not as bad as Germany in the 20's!
posted by petebest at 2:57 PM on April 14, 2017 [22 favorites]

Samuel L. Jackson Records Ad For GA Special Election: 'Stop Donald Trump':

“Stop Donald Trump, a man who encourages racial and religious discrimination and sexism... Remember what happened the last time people stayed home. We got stuck with Trump. We have to channel the great vengeance and furious anger we have for this administration into votes at the ballot box. Do your friends and family a favor. Hell, do yourself a favor and vote on April 18, and make sure to vote for the Democratic Party.”

Jules himself has endorsed Jon Ossoff! I'm not sure what more there is to say. The republican field should avoid saying "what," I suppose.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:00 PM on April 14, 2017 [62 favorites]

shouldn't we be I don't know marching against war in Korea right now?

Tomorrow, April 15, is the Tax March. You can check to see if you have a local march-- there's a bunch happening around the country. There are 3 in NC (Raleigh, Charlotte, and Mooresville.)

I have a sign that says, "No Tax Returns, No Tax Reform. What are you hiding, Mr. President?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:09 PM on April 14, 2017 [7 favorites]

I posted about considering a move to somewhere (Canada?) recently and got yelled at about privilege.

they're right, getting shot at by a malignant asshole because jesus told him to would be woke af
posted by indubitable at 3:18 PM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

Coventry: "But anyway, the US in 2017 is a long way from Germany in 1933."

There was a recent article (that I can't find any more but was probably linked in one of these trillion mega-threads) that pointed out that, while historical comparisons of Trump's America to Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy are tempting, there are notable examples of pretty terrible episodes within America's own history. Y'know, stuff like Jim Crow, the Second Klan, Native American genocides, the bombing of Black Wall Street, Chinese Exclusionary Acts, Japanese internment, etc... Like, one of the reasons why Vancouver, B.C. has one of the largest Sikh populations outside of India was because Bellingham, WA and Whatcom County basically chased out all of their Sikh farmers at the turn of the last century. The gist of the article was that if fascism were to consolidate in Trump's America, it would be a particularly American fascism.

So, I think the more pointed question isn't how far away is 2017 USA from 1933 Germany but rather how far is 2017 USA from 1942 USA or 1921 USA or 1877 USA or 1830 USA. On the one hand, I feel it's pretty unlikely that straight-up, state-sanctioned genocide is on the menu. On the other, I'm less certain about... other stuff.
posted by mhum at 3:23 PM on April 14, 2017 [39 favorites]

Trump has named Scott Garrett to be President of the Export-Import bank. That's the guy who refused to give any money to the NRCC because it supports gay Republican candidates (he claims that isn't true, but that he wouldn't support the NRCC because it backed candidates who supported gay marriage).

This isn't some "oh we didn't vet him" mistake: it was a major issue in his re-election campaign, which he lost. He also wanted to abolish the Export-Import bank.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on April 14, 2017 [15 favorites]

. On the one hand, I feel it's pretty unlikely that straight-up, state-sanctioned genocide is on the menu. On the other, I'm less certain about... other stuff.

History never repeats, but the broad themes usually rhyme. They're already building up a nationwide deportation force. Once that's in place, its a small step from deportations to a generalized political police force under the direction of the President. And then to rounding up not just "illegals" but all "dissenters" especially prominent Democratic leaders in blue states. They're building up the infrastructure of a police state and chomping at the bit to use it.

It might be more parallel to 1912 Germany than 1939, but that's not much comfort, and the world moves a whole lot faster now. It won't take 25 years to go from a surprise election to blood in the streets, it could easily take less than 2.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:40 PM on April 14, 2017 [26 favorites]

Daily Beast Congressman Investigating Trump Goes to Russia’s Money Laundromat, Cyprus

“Cyprus has a reputation as a laundromat for the Russians who are trying to avoid sanctions,” Rep. Mike Quigley told The Daily Beast. “It was extraordinarily helpful in understanding how the Russians launder money and why.”[...]

The Trump administration’s Commerce Secretary, Wilbur Ross, was involved in a business deal with a Russian businessman with ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin while he was the vice-chairman of the Bank of Cyprus.

And last month the Associated Press reported that Treasury Department agents obtained bank transaction information involving former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, specifically transactions going through Cyprus, which AP described as “known as a haven for money laundering by Russian billionaires.”

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:49 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

rounding up not just "illegals" but all "dissenters" especially prominent Democratic leaders
Didn't he lead chants of "Lock her up" in his campaign rallies?
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:50 PM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

He also wanted to abolish the Export-Import bank.

Of course. "Qualifications: I wish to destroy this thing I'm applying to."

Is it a theme of the Trumpistration, or a . . . motif?
posted by petebest at 3:51 PM on April 14, 2017 [10 favorites]

A lietmotif, perhaps.
posted by rikschell at 3:52 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

He also wanted to abolish the Export-Import bank.

Of course. "Qualifications: I wish to destroy this thing I'm applying to."

It's been amazing to see how very specific Trump has gotten with his nominations-- really going out of his way to find someone who is anti-whatever the position is. I say "Trump" but I know he would never work this hard or do so much research so it must be coming from Miller or Bannon.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

700 Immigrants on Hunger Strike at For-Profit Prison to Protest Conditions & $1/Day Wages

-- Hunger strikers are demanding better food, hygiene, medical care within the prison, which is owned by the major private prison corporation GEO Group. Organizers say prisoners have also launched work stoppages to protest the fact they’re paid only a dollar a day to cook, to clean, to do laundry necessary to keep the prison running. GEO Group is facing a class-action lawsuit arguing the company violates federal anti-slavery laws at its Aurora, Colorado, prison, where it also pays only a dollar a day.
posted by futz at 4:01 PM on April 14, 2017 [24 favorites]

NIKKI HALEY GETS HECKLED AT GLOBAL WOMEN’S SUMMIT OVER TRUMP, RUSSIA

As some members of the audience shouted at her remarks, Haley said, “we have to express America’s values. We are always the moral conscience of the world,” to which someone from the audience shouted, “what about the refugees,” cutting off Haley. Haley went silent. [MSNBC's] Van Susteren paused, and then said, “Moving on.”

. . . “We often complain and sneer and say Republicans never want to come on any kind of forum except Fox News or places where they can be asked questions that are soft,” [Tina] Brown said, adding that Haley did not put on any pre-conditions and sat very “graciously” while the audience heckled.

“She didn’t get agitated about it, and she’s in the middle of a lot of world crises. So, I feel that we should really applaud the fact that she did come.”

Mm. Yes. Quite Good show! How brave. Mitch "Chew Your Own Balls Off" McConnell wouldn't have been so brave.
posted by petebest at 4:05 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

Courting Ivanka Trump: How Japanese diplomats rushed to produce a surprise from a Tokyo comedian

In which we relate Ivanka Trump, her daughter Arabella, the Japanese Embassy, and "Pen Pineapple Apple Pen" to demonstrate the lengths to which countries are going to court members of the Trump family [real, yes really].
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

WaPo Remember when the White House had faith?

It appears likely that President Trump will not continue the White House Easter Prayer Breakfast, a tradition that began in 2010 under President Barack Obama where he would invite Christian leaders from across the country to join him for a service in the East Room of the White House. It would include singing, a sermon and prayers, and the president would discuss the significance of Easter for him.[...]

Fast forward to today’s White House, with a man who is undoubtedly one of the most religiously illiterate and thoroughly secular presidents in American history. Ironically, without the vote of churchgoing Christians, Trump would not be in the White House today.[...]

Meanwhile, where is the breathless hand-wringing over Trump’s lack of church attendance? Weren’t we told he had a miraculous conversion experience in the run-up to the election?

Trump has yet to name a director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships-- which is a pretty big deal. Now I'm perfectly happy to have an Atheist in the Oval Office and I could do without all the religious humbug as carried out by those fakes in Washington DC, but after this Trump Presidency I better not hear the Right criticize Liberals for being Godless.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:08 PM on April 14, 2017 [58 favorites]

And then to rounding up not just "illegals" but all "dissenters" especially prominent Democratic leaders in blue states. They're building up the infrastructure of a police state and chomping at the bit to use it.

That's not going to be a doddle, though, especially when it comes to a state like California, a large and wealthy state with an educated and politically active population. I've flagged as excellent this comment in a previous thread about how hard martial law really would be to implement, especially in a wealthy area. I don't think Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsom (who recently proposed universal health care for Californians) are shaking in their boots.

I will be far more worried if capable people who don't mind spilling lots of rich hippie blood and killing the Calfornia goose that laid the golden high-tech economy egg somehow get into office. As it is I do worry right now for people who are vulnerable, like the abused immigrant women who don't dare complain because of ICE.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:16 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

Gosh, the Christians don't care that Trump isn't a fan of Easter.

I thought Easter was serious business. Look at how they crucified Cadbury over an Easter egg controversy that doesn't even exist!
posted by Yowser at 4:25 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

he came over to borrow a bee smoker from me

"I experimented with bee smoking a time or two, and didn't like it. I didn't inhale and I didn't try it again."
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:39 PM on April 14, 2017 [21 favorites]

Trump’s got a new favorite Steve - As the president cools on Steve Bannon, his deputy Stephen Miller is cultivating relationships with other members of Trump’s coterie.

-- The 31-year-old speechwriter is now working closely with Kushner’s Office of American Innovation, as well as on family leave, child care and women’s issues with Kushner’s wife, Ivanka Trump, according to several people involved.

-- Miller, who worked for then-Sen. Jeff Sessions on Capitol Hill before joining up with Trump, hasn’t changed his position on immigration and stands firmly behind the travel ban, White House officials said.

-- More than anything, White House officials say, he has undeniable loyalty to the president. He will never contradict Trump, no matter what the president says. He will reinforce the president's beliefs with news articles that support them. And unlike Bannon, a wealthy man in his own right, the president doesn’t see Miller as a peer or someone trying to take the spotlight, unless he’s been allowed to take it.

“I am prepared to go on any show, anywhere, anytime and repeat it and say the president of the United States is correct 100 percent,” he said in February.

I think the Trumpers have a very specific word to describe a guy like Miller...

WH Immigration Hardliner Stephen Miller Adds ‘Women’s Issues’ To His Portfolio

Though Miller appears to have little record working on women’s issues, he once wrote an op-ed that would fit right in at Breitbart, where the editorial stance holds that the gender pay gap is a myth.

In “Sorry Feminists,” a 2005 column first flagged by the Huffington Post that he wrote while a junior at Duke University, Miller argued women earn less because men work longer hours and choose better-paid jobs.

“The truth is, even in modern-day America, there is a place for gender roles,” he wrote.
posted by futz at 4:55 PM on April 14, 2017 [7 favorites]

Bernie gave a speech at a Ben & Jerry's factory and this happened.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:57 PM on April 14, 2017 [10 favorites]

"I experimented with bee smoking a time or two, and didn't like it. I didn't inhale and I didn't try it again."

that's too bad - it's one hell of a buzz
posted by pyramid termite at 4:57 PM on April 14, 2017 [42 favorites]

Alt-Right Ringleader Mike Cernovich Threatens to Drop ‘Motherlode’ If Steve Bannon Is Ousted:

“If they get rid of Bannon, you know what’s gonna happen? The motherlode. If Bannon is removed, there are gonna be divorces, because I know about the mistresses, the sugar babies, the drugs, the pill popping, the orgies. I know everything,” said Cernovich.

“If they go after Bannon, the mother of all stories is gonna drop, and we’re just gonna destroy marriages, relationships—it’s gonna get personal.”

10 days ago, Don Jr. was saying Cernovich should win a Pulitzer, so that's interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on April 14, 2017 [32 favorites]

Bullshit on a silver platter!

Justice vetoes budget by unveiling bull manure

-- CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Gov. Jim Justice showed state lawmakers what he thought of their $4.1 billion budget, vetoing it with a pile of bull manure Thursday.

-- “We don’t have a nothing burger today, and we don’t have a mayonnaise sandwich,” Justice said in reference to his previous analogies for Republican budgets. “What we have is nothing more than bunch of political bull you-know-what.”

With that, Justice lifted the silver lid on a tray to reveal animal feces.

“For that very reason, I’m signing my name on the budget veto,” he said, “and I hope and pray that the silliness will stop and we’ll do the right thing.”

The governor’s veto means lawmakers will be called back into special session in order to adopt a spending plan before the July 1 start of the new fiscal year. No date has been set for that session.

-- The budget passed by the House and Senate cuts $110 million in spending, most of that from higher education and the state Division of Health and Human Resources. It also takes $90 million from the Rainy Day Fund. That move would take the state below a fund balance encouraged by Wall Street bond rating agencies.

With video if you are so inclined.
posted by futz at 5:12 PM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump goes to his church almost every weekend. It's called Mar-a-lago, and at that holy temple he worships his personal savior, Mammon.
posted by valkane at 5:25 PM on April 14, 2017 [28 favorites]

That's not going to be a doddle, though, especially when it comes to a state like California, a large and wealthy state with an educated and politically active population.

Well, let's hope that's right. I see the marijuana dispensaries as the first target. Largely owned by wealthy, politically connected white Democrats exclusively in Blue states, and explicitly illegal under federal law. If they're able to conduct those raids without massive uproars and/or violent resistance from the states, all bets are off.

But the build out of ICE and CPB is troubling precisely because those are federal entities which won't require cooperation from state forces. They don't even have to have a storm trooper on every street corner to have an extreme chilling effect on rights and discourse, a few successful test cases is all it takes to create an environment of political fear, from which they can then escalate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:32 PM on April 14, 2017 [5 favorites]

Border Patrol struggles to recruit agents amid immigration crackdown

Donald Trump’s immigration crackdown has a problem: not enough Americans are willing to carry it out.

The Border Patrol is losing agents faster than it can replace them, putting a question mark over the president’s plan to ramp up the force.

Air and Marine Operations, a separate agency, is also struggling to find pilots and other employees.

...Another problem is the attitude of young people, especially those for whom 9/11 is distant history. “They have a different view of public service. I don’t want to indict an entire generation but it’s harder to sell self-sacrifice for the common good.”

So not sad that this jackbooted agency is having problems. It couldn't have happened to a nicer agency. :)
posted by futz at 5:53 PM on April 14, 2017 [45 favorites]

Two Adelanto Detention Center ICE Detainees Have Died In The Past Three Weeks

.
.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:54 PM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

"I experimented with bee smoking a time or two, and didn't like it. I didn't inhale and I didn't try it again."

that's too bad - it's one hell of a buzz

Gave me the hives.
posted by MrVisible at 6:02 PM on April 14, 2017 [19 favorites]

Josh Marshall:

On the one hand, all Cernovics[sic] stories are fake, unfortunately. Otoh, Trumpers will likely believe them. So everyone will have to resign.

posted by murphy slaw at 6:03 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

...Another problem is the attitude of young people, especially those for whom 9/11 is distant history. “They have a different view of public service. I don’t want to indict an entire generation but it’s harder to sell self-sacrifice for the common good.”

It's really not an indictment in this context.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:12 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

They have a different view of public service. I don’t want to indict an entire generation but it’s harder to sell self-sacrifice for the common good.

man i never thought I'd hear right wing cranks endorsing my generation
posted by indubitable at 6:12 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

Conservative group slams White House shift on visitor logs

Judicial Watch said in a statement that "this new secrecy policy undermines the rule of law and suggests this White House doesn’t want to be accountable to the American people."

WHAAAAT? Awesome. Stopped clock and all that Jazz.

"Unfortunately, this move is perfectly in line with the policy of the Obama White House to prevent these visitor logs from being processed and released under the Freedom of Information Act," the group's president, Tom Fitton, said in the statement.

LIES. Business as usual with these fucknuggets. Calls out donnie and Lies about President Obama in the same breath.

The administration’s decision ensures the records will be kept secret until five years after Trump’s departure from office. Records were previously posted online on a monthly basis three or four months after an individual visited the White House.

Trump has previously accused Obama of trying to obscure the same records from public scrutiny.

“Why is @BarackObama spending millions to try and hide his records?” Trump tweeted in 2012. “He is the least transparent President – ever – and he ran on transparency.”

lol *sobs*
posted by futz at 6:14 PM on April 14, 2017 [16 favorites]

"I know about the mistresses, the sugar babies, the drugs, the pill popping, the orgies. I know everything,” said Cernovich.

Apparently, Mike's forgotten that Donnie's fans don't care about the mistresses, the drugs, and the orgies. They wouldn't have voted for him if they did. Still, nothing could seal Bannon's fate quicker than a threat, so I hope he shouts really loud!
posted by octobersurprise at 6:16 PM on April 14, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump is pretty damn transparent. Most people just don't want to believe what they're seeing.
posted by uosuaq at 6:16 PM on April 14, 2017 [22 favorites]

I thought Easter was serious business. Look at how they crucified Cadbury over an Easter egg controversy that doesn't even exist!

I'll have you know that Cadbury most certainly has been reducing the sizes of Creme Eggs over the years and we have Cadbury on record admitting it.
posted by Talez at 6:17 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

Donnie's fans don't care about the mistresses, the drugs, and the orgies.
They'd celebrate if it all came out; it gives them license to be as depraved as they want without the inconvenience of being hypocritical.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:32 PM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

...Another problem is the attitude of young people, especially those for whom 9/11 is distant history.

so sick of hearing everything related back to 9/11. maybe the young people simply have no interest in becoming jackbooted thugs.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:36 PM on April 14, 2017 [35 favorites]

GA-06 Fri updates:

* New Opinion Savvy poll:

Ossoff 41.5%
Handel 21.2%
Hill 11.3%
Gray 10.6%
Moody 9.4%
Others 2.8%
Undecided 3.2%

Handel vs. Ossoff:
Handel 42.1%
Ossoff 44.1%
Undecided 13.8%

===

* New Landmark poll:

Ossoff 45.3
Handel 17.4
Gray 8.6
Moody 8.4
Hill 8.0
Undecided 7.2

===

* EV results - today was the last day of early voting:

Today: D 35, R 43
Over all: D 41.1, R 40.8 with 54817 votes counted

IDK if it will win it for Ossoff. But by our estimates, Clinton would have won ~57% of these voters. It's a very Dem early vote for this CD.

The good news for Rs: a lot of reliable R vote to come.
The good news for Ds: a lot of irregular voters (at midterm levels in ~20% range)

===

FWIW, I've seen a fair bit of skepticism about this race's polls - both methodological, and general special election level of difficulty. I think at this point, the only thing we know for sure is Ossoff is the overall vote winner. Who comes in 2nd, and if we need to go to round 2 will have to wait until Tue.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:41 PM on April 14, 2017 [16 favorites]

Yesterday's Trump RT of a Drudge Report headline may have been a tweet too far for the @burnedyourtweet robot. The tweet printout seems to have gotten stuck on the lighter and used up all the butane. Today's FLOTUS RT was sadly undercooked.

I thought that this was a bit of a tortured metaphor for a sassy twitter account that gives sick burns. I had no idea that it was an actual robot.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:51 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

Largely owned by wealthy, politically connected white Democrats exclusively in Blue states, and explicitly illegal under federal law.

Are they owned by Democrats though? Last I read there was huge numbers of former law enforcement people involved in the ownership and operation and they are not exactly a solid democratic party demographic.
posted by srboisvert at 7:24 PM on April 14, 2017

Trump claims he can’t be sued for inciting rally violence

-- Donald Trump’s lawyers in a Friday afternoon federal court filing argued that he cannot be sued for inciting his supporters to hurt protesters because, as the president, he is immune from civil lawsuits.

-- But their claim was undermined by a separate Friday filing from one of the Trump supporters, Alvin Bamberger, a member of the Korean War Veterans Association who was captured on video pushing the lead plaintiff, a young African-American woman named Kashiya Nwanguma.

-- ...Bamberger’s lawyers stressed that “to the extent that Bamberger acted, he did so in response to — and inspired by — Trump and/or the Trump Campaign’s urging to remove the protesters.”

-- They added that Bamberger “had no prior intention to act as he did” and “would not have acted as he did without Trump and/or the Trump Campaign’s specific urging and inspiration.”

As such, Bamberger’s lawyers argue, if there is a monetary judgment against Bamberger, Trump or his campaign should be forced to bear the cost of it.
posted by futz at 7:47 PM on April 14, 2017 [38 favorites]

It's terrifying how much willful ignorance has become a virtue, while expertise has become worthy of contempt in certain circles.

Education/expertise is considered a virtue in white supremacist patriarchy only insofar as it acts as a gatekeeper of white men's power. Since access to education is no longer limited to white men, it no longer serves its purpose as a gatekeeping tool.

It's like some kind of weird ass signal of excess social fitness in a broken society that you can be ignorant and completely get away with it and succeed.

I am no fan of meritocracy but I even less of a fan of its complete opposite.
posted by srboisvert at 7:49 PM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

Does he think North Korea doesn't know we have submarines? Did he just discover we have submarines himself? Because he's suddenly obsessed with submarines.

Update: North Korea displays submarine-based missiles for first time at military parade (picture). The President has got to be terrified now that he can see that North Korea has submarines-launched missiles too.

Note that these are conventional missiles and things we knew they had, not some new threat, but given Trump's submarine fixation this week...
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

Because he's suddenly obsessed with submarines.

Which is weird (but not surprising), because submarines are part of the nuclear triad he should have learned about after he totally airballed on questions he was asked about it during the campaign.
posted by Rykey at 8:18 PM on April 14, 2017 [3 favorites]

Press footage of a jankety-ass antique Russian diesel sub held together with rust is impressive to the Donald
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:22 PM on April 14, 2017

Jason Kander wins twitter again
Actual poll on http://whitehouse.gov right now to choose a federal agency to eliminate.

Vote your conscience.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 PM on April 14, 2017 [15 favorites]

Also FTA

One of the protesters, Henry Brousseau, said in an interview that it seemed obvious from the context “that (Trump) was speaking to the crowd when he said ‘get ‘em out of here’.”

Brousseau — who alleges that he was punched in the stomach by Trump supporters after shouting “Black Lives Matter” — said Trump “was trying to egg on the crowd.”

A second Trump supporter named in Brousseau’s suit is a well-known white nationalist.

This white nationalist who shoved a Trump protester may be the next David Duke

There had been ­clashes between supporters and protesters at Donald Trump rallies before, but this one in Louisville last month stood out. The racial imagery was jarring, the violence only barely contained. When video of the encounter went viral, most who saw it had no idea who the man was. But his followers knew. And so did his family. And so did the people who track hate groups and white-supremacist ­organizations, who consider him one of the country’s leading young proponents of racial acrimony.

The day after the rally, Matthew Heim­bach, a 25-year-old white nationalist who grew up in an affluent Maryland community and now lives in rural Indiana, acknowledged online that he was the one in the video pushing the woman.

I'd love to see Heim­bach testify and expose the pro-trump movement in a very public way. Do we already know this? Yes we do and so does most everyone else. Many many people are in denial though. To have it laid bare and make Spicey squirm? I am all for that. To hear trump and his cucklings try to explain this away while inserting foot into propagandist mouth over and over again? Priceless. Unfortunately the Distractor in Chief will probably toss a bomb or two and the breathless media will trot along obligingly and change the subject. I know that hoping for something revelatory to happen because of this is a pipe dream. Any dent will do at this point.
posted by futz at 8:35 PM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

Every revelation that SHOULD be a "surely this" but only leaves a dent reminds me of the joke about how you eat an elephant--one spoonful at a time.

Which would explain why we all feel so queasy maybe. This elephant has definitely gone off.
posted by emjaybee at 8:40 PM on April 14, 2017 [8 favorites]

From upthread (thanks futz!)

-- CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Gov. Jim Justice showed state lawmakers what he thought of their $4.1 billion budget, vetoing it with a pile of bull manure Thursday.

San Francisco's 2016-17 budget is $9.6 billion. A city of ~875,000 has a budget more than twice that of West Virginia. The mind boggles.

(sorry for the derail)
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 8:52 PM on April 14, 2017 [7 favorites]

This white nationalist who shoved a Trump protester may be the next David Duke

I've been watching Heimbach for a couple years and he's definitely a disease. Not much charisma but motivated and ambitious, and he's both more extreme than Duke and has a better grasp of the mechanics of fascist youth movements. It's lucky that he hasn't accumulated that many followers and hasn't found a figurehead for The Traditionalist Worker Party: he'd perform much better as a Himmler.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:11 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]

Complaint: Bannon, Mercer Dodged California Taxes

A legal watchdog group has filed a complaint alleging Steve Bannon and Rebekah Mercer failed to properly register groups in California, avoiding corporate taxes as well as disclosure laws.

On the same day that CLC filed a legal complaint last year alleging that the super PAC’s payments to the two companies were in effect illegal disbursements to the Trump campaign’s top operative, Bannon Strategic Advisors quietly filed amended incorporation documents (PDF) changing its address to a mailbox at a nearby UPS Store.

Make America Number 1’s FEC filings indicate that Cambridge Analytica and Glittering Steel maintained physical presences in California. Their payments to Bannon Strategic Advisors, which is incorporated in the state, may therefore have constituted intrastate commerce and required that both firms register with California’s secretary of State

Take these assholes down by any means possible.
posted by futz at 9:13 PM on April 14, 2017 [21 favorites]

Reuters: North Korea warns against U.S. 'hysteria' as it marks founder's birth
posted by christopherious at 9:37 PM on April 14, 2017

Apropos of something: Facebook has banner ads of sorts to alert users to a new FB Help entry -- Tips to Spot False News. You can visit without logging in, or just rad their tips below:

We want to stop the spread of false news on Facebook. Learn more about the work we're doing. As we work to limit the spread, here are some tips on what to look out for:

1. Be skeptical of headlines. False news stories often have catchy headlines in all caps with exclamation points. If shocking claims in the headline sound unbelievable, they probably are.
2. Look closely at the URL. A phony or look-alike URL may be a warning sign of false news. Many false news sites mimic authentic news sources by making small changes to the URL. You can go to the site to compare the URL to established sources.
3. Investigate the source. Ensure that the story is written by a source that you trust with a reputation for accuracy. If the story comes from an unfamiliar organization, check their "About" section to learn more.
4. Watch for unusual formatting. Many false news sites have misspellings or awkward layouts. Read carefully if you see these signs.
5. Consider the photos. False news stories often contain manipulated images or videos. Sometimes the photo may be authentic, but taken out of context. You can search for the photo or image to verify where it came from.
6. Inspect the dates. False news stories may contain timelines that make no sense, or event dates that have been altered.
7. Check the evidence. Check the author's sources to confirm that they are accurate. Lack of evidence or reliance on unnamed experts may indicate a false news story.
8. Look at other reports. If no other news source is reporting the same story, it may indicate that the story is false. If the story is reported by multiple sources you trust, it's more likely to be true.
9. Is the story a joke? Sometimes false news stories can be hard to distinguish from humor or satire. Check whether the source is known for parody, and whether the story's details and tone suggest it may be just for fun.
10. Some stories are intentionally false. Think critically about the stories you read, and only share news that you know to be credible.

#3 and 7 are troublesome. If you currently trust InfoWars and Breitbart, you're screwed on #3. And a LOT of current and breaking political news is based on "unnamed experts" who don't disclose their identities for a variety of reasons.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:41 PM on April 14, 2017 [10 favorites]

I guess I understand why this is necessary but it sure is a lot of work for what should be plainly obvious 98+% of the time. If you find yourself regularly falling for fake news you need to rethink your entire worldview and approach to the media. Simply taking a more rigorous approach to vetting information isn't going to cut it.
posted by Justinian at 9:49 PM on April 14, 2017 [4 favorites]

Actual poll on http://whitehouse.gov right now to choose a federal agency to eliminate.

Yes, and here's the actual online poll

On March 13th, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Order that will make the Federal government more efficient, effective, and accountable to you, the American people. This Executive Order directs the Director of the Office of Management and Budget to present the President with a plan that recommends ways to reorganize the executive branch and eliminate unnecessary agencies.

President Trump wants to hear your ideas and suggestions on how the government can be better organized to work for the American people.

Share your ideas below by June 12th!

What agency would you like to reform?

[Dropdown]

What agency would you like to eliminate?

[Dropdown]

There are a few more fields, but you get the idea -- and you can select as many are applicable!

But don't worry, it's totally a serious form, becaue if you want to eliminate anything, the form demands SELECT WHY: FIELD IS REQUIRED. Because we wouldn't want some internet jokers to just select everything and not say anything. It's really a proper poll when you can select everything, but you're prompted with:

-NA-
Not Necessary or Effective
Duplicative of other Federal program
Not an Appropriate Federal Role
Other: (fill in the field)

2017 folks, the year that the President of the United States may actually make some decisions based on internet polls.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:53 PM on April 14, 2017 [14 favorites]

I mean... fake news isn't usually something relatively subtle and believable like "after careful consideration and meeting with advisors Hillary Clinton has decided to take a more aggressive stance in calling for restrictions on gun ownership, and if elected will be working with Democrats in Congress to expand laws modeled on California's assault weapons ban." It's garbage like "CLINTON DEATH LIST. THREE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED AND TWELVE VICTOMS OF THE KLINTON HIT SQUADS".

If you're falling for this stuff it's because you're a bad person and mostly want to believe it not because you're slightly too credulous of a person.
posted by Justinian at 9:57 PM on April 14, 2017 [22 favorites]

2017 folks, the year that the President of the United States may actually make some decisions based on internet polls.

If he truly wanted to go all 2017, he'd Twitch livestream the signing and paste straw poll results onto the order.
posted by christopherious at 9:58 PM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump goes to his church almost every weekend. It's called Mar-a-lago, and at that holy temple he worships his personal savior, Mammon.

The Church of Meatloaf
Is such a holy place to be...
posted by thelonius at 10:08 PM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

That whitehouse.gov survey has blank text boxes to share your ideas! I pasted this in all of them: The people in charge of the various cabinet agencies should NOT be the most corrupt people the president can find. They should also NOT be people who are on record as advocating against the very thing that their cabinet agency does. We need professionals who believe in what they are doing and want to help Americans, not cronies who only want to help themselves and their friends.
posted by Weeping_angel at 10:09 PM on April 14, 2017 [16 favorites]

I mean... fake news isn't usually something relatively subtle and believable.....

Confirmation bias and stupidity combined are a hell of a thing.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:30 PM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]

Secret Service costs for Trump family protection continue to mount

President Trump’s trips on Air Force One to Mar-a-Lago have cost taxpayers an estimated $700,000 for each round trip. CBS News has estimated, based on a previous Government Accountabilty Office report, that each presidential trip to Mar-a-Lago costs about $3 million.

One purchase order reviewed by CBS News shows the US Secret Service has spent $35,185 on golf cart rentals “for POTUS visit” in Palm Beach County, Florida since the President’s inauguration.

Another purchase order showed a charge of $64,000 for “Elevator services- Trump Tower” in December 2016. A Secret Service official told CBS News that “elevator inspection is one of many protective operational measures utilized by the Secret Service.”

It is astounding to see how much we are paying for these profiteers. I saw a much more detailed rundown of costs for the whole family earlier today. I'll link it tomorrow if I can find it.
posted by futz at 10:50 PM on April 14, 2017 [26 favorites]

Seriously why don't they own golf carts
posted by rhizome at 11:21 PM on April 14, 2017 [7 favorites]

Jack Shafer has had it with the Gary Cohn flattery, and comes to a broader conclusion about a tendency for centrism even when none exists in The Post Pours Some Sugar on Gary Cohn: "Trump’s economic adviser is faster than a speeding bullet and can leap tall buildings in a single bound, we’re told."

Conservative press critics can’t shut up about liberal media bias, but for my money the enduring bias in the Washington press is for moderation, centrism and bipartisanship. If a politician or policymaker signals a willingness to make deals in Washington—no matter what the deal—the press will treat him like a wise and worldly figure. “People who have met with Cohn in his new role said they weren’t aware of what his ideology was,” Paletta notes. Has no ideology? Or camouflages it? Pick one. As long as a Washington figure camouflages his policies in neutral colors, he can expect reporters to lap treats directly from his hand.

It's this bias that keeps leading not entirely stupid people to praise Trump for making it through a speech without accidentally lighting his podium on fire or praise Ivanka for vaguely indicating she cares about some issue that would actually make people's lives better before that issue is ignored or the opposite position is actually carried out. People want signs of normalcy, and they'll go nuts at the benign ones, even as plenty of decidedly non-normal things are going on everywhere else.
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 PM on April 14, 2017 [20 favorites]

Seriously why don't they own golf carts

Next in SS expenses: $45,000 - "Mar-a-Lago Golf Cart Parking and Storage Services"
posted by jaduncan at 2:58 AM on April 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

So far just a determination to show off a nominal ICBM they can't currently fit a nuke on and might fit solid fuel in at some stage. Oh, and some Pukkuksong submarine-launched ballistic missiles. More national acting out, but notably no nuclear test thus far. There's a super simplistic summary on CNN, but I'd recomment the Jeffrey Lewis twitter feed over that.

Tl;dr of both is that DPRK programs apparently progress a little but they almost certainly don't have particularly interesting warheads for their new toys.
posted by jaduncan at 3:15 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Looking at that elaborate formation of humans, the huge squares, spokes, semicircles and parallelograms, I can't help thinking that if you tipped that one guy at the outer edge -- it'd be the most amazing domino display ever.
posted by wallabear at 3:40 AM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

That high? hmmmmmm
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:12 AM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ivanka Trump Has Just 21% Favorability Among Young Women (cosmopolitan)

lol

I can only imagine how pissed she is
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump Demands Gold‑Plated Welcome—President Insists On a Carriage Journey Down the Mall To Buckingham Palace: "The White House has made clear it regards the carriage procession down the Mall as an essential element of the itinerary for the visit currently planned for the second week of October, according to officials."

One can only imagine how much Theresa May is regretting inviting Trump to the UK in the wake of his inauguration, much less her continued defense of it.

We're well into Nero territory, folks. Next stop, Caligula.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:29 AM on April 15, 2017 [33 favorites]

Tips to Spot False News

a.k.a. Simple Media Literacy. It should have been taught in school right after colors and numbers for the last 60 years, but it wasn't, and now we've got DONALD JULIUS TRUMP in the goddamned White House with the lapdog press stretching so far as to look concerned at the administration's latest insult to America.

(Alternately, "Fuck Chuck Todd" but I went with the longer one.)
posted by petebest at 5:47 AM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

I can guarantee that Londoners will turn out in their millions if Donnie wangles a trip in the gilded carriage.

Also that drones, dildoes and swarming software will sell out for weeks beforehand.
posted by Devonian at 5:51 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

7. Check the evidence. Check the author's sources to confirm that they are accurate. Lack of evidence or reliance on unnamed experts may indicate a false news story.

Nope, sorry, this would preclude 90% of the propaganda and bullshit conspiracy mongering published in NYT and WaPo. This list is a Russian psyop! You've been duped!
posted by indubitable at 5:55 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

"The White House has made clear it regards the carriage procession down the Mall as an essential element of the itinerary

An I want a king hat, some curly-toed shoes, and a harem tent, and a harem, and a gold-plated frying pan for my steak, and a gold plated steak and one of those underwater James Bond cars with some Bond girls in it, and a couple of those tall furry hats and I want a big trumpet entrance, real classy like, and I want to put Priebus in the Tower and have them write a Shakespeare play about my biglyness and a room-temperature diet coke, a Big Mac on top and spam.
posted by petebest at 5:59 AM on April 15, 2017 [20 favorites]

Trump
noun
an unrefined, ill-mannered person.
"at last the big obnoxious trump had been dealt a stunning blow for his uncouth and belligerent manner"
synonyms: boor, lout, oaf, ruffian, thug, yahoo, barbarian, Neanderthal, brute, beast, lubber; informal clod, roughneck, troglodyte, knuckle-dragger, pig, peasant
"Only a trump would dictate to his hosts how he will be received."
posted by valkane at 6:04 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump Raises Millions for 2020 Re-Election Bid

Because people are seeing what a garbage-fire presidency looks like, and they want more.

Will the MeFite with the plans to grift Trump's base into bankruptcy, and then use that money for good, please report to the Seekrit Planning Area . . .
posted by petebest at 6:14 AM on April 15, 2017 [10 favorites]

North Korea's 2017 Military Parade Was a Big Deal. Here Are the Major Takeaways
Given the ever-growing number of TELs — both wheeled and tracked — North Korea may soon field nuclear forces amply large that a conventional U.S.-South Korea first strike may find it impossible to fully disarm Pyongyang of a nuclear retaliatory capability. That would give the North Korean regime what it’s always sought with its nuclear and ballistic missile program: an absolute guarantee against coercive removal.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

One can only imagine how much Theresa May is regretting inviting Trump to the UK in the wake of his inauguration, much less her continued defense of it.

May deserves this, she's using a trade deal with the US as Brexit leverage.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:35 AM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

There is an impossiblity at the heart of the UK ideal of some great trade agreement with the US. Trump's cronies have gone about dismantling environmental and safety regs with relish, and any trade deal would require that the UK accepts the results of that, effectively asking the UK to dismantle its own, EU-standard regs.

But May will also need a trade deal with the EU, which will require EU-level regs

Now, it is clearly possible for third parties to do deals with both the EU and the US, and also possible to bypass regulations (a lot of the cheap Chinese electronics that comes into the UK is clearly non-compliant with EU regs, which causes real harm.) But when you're negotiating ab novo on both sides at once, you have very little leverage, especially when you're a lot smaller than those you're dealing with.

A story in the Irish Times yesterday, backed by a senior Irish trade minister who's been deeply involved in talks with both the UK and the EU, said that the enormity of the fuck-up that is Brexit is beginning to sink in at the highest level of UK government. I have no doubt that the same process is going on as 45 demonstrates in ever more undeniable ways that he is actually incapable of the job, and that there's nobody actually at home capable of agreeing a deal.
posted by Devonian at 6:54 AM on April 15, 2017 [12 favorites]

Nearly $500K in campaign funds has gone to Trump-owned entities: report

Nearly $500,000 from President Trump's 2020 re-election campaign has gone directly to Trump-owned restaurants, hotels and golf clubs, The Wall Street Journal reported Saturday.

Of the more than $6 million in campaign funds spent in the first three months of 2017, $274,013 has gone toward rent at Trump Tower, the report said, citing Federal Election Commission filings.

Another $58,685 has gone toward lodging at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach, Fla., and $13,828 has gone toward renting facilities and catering costs at Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas.
posted by futz at 6:59 AM on April 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

Trump Demands Gold‑Plated Welcome—President Insists On a Carriage Journey Down the Mall To Buckingham Palace: "The White House has made clear it regards the carriage procession down the Mall as an essential element of the itinerary for the visit currently planned for the second week of October, according to officials."

Second week of October, you say? Why, that's the week of my birthday. And it's a big birthday this year, so I should make a big wish, no?
posted by palomar at 7:02 AM on April 15, 2017 [13 favorites]

That 100-day plan bears a striking resemblance to Berzelius Windrip's campaign platform in It Can't Happen Here.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:11 AM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Meet Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s army of abstainers
Oh hey, France has it's own Bernie-bro problem that's going to elect Le Pen. At least it's left leaning parties everywhere!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:17 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

From Wiktionary:

Word of the day for April 15

necrocracy n

1. A government that still operates under the rules of a former, dead leader.

☞ Kim Il-sung, the former supreme leader of North Korea now designated its “Eternal Leader”, was born on this day in 1912.

posted by XMLicious at 7:17 AM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

An I want a king hat, some curly-toed shoes, and a harem tent, and a harem, and a gold-plated frying pan for my steak, and a gold plated steak and one of those underwater James Bond cars with some Bond girls in it, and a couple of those tall furry hats and I want a big trumpet entrance, real classy like, and I want to put Priebus in the Tower and have them write a Shakespeare play about my biglyness and a room-temperature diet coke, a Big Mac on top and spam.
posted by petebest

...whereas Ringo only wanted a hot chip buttie and a nice shandy.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:28 AM on April 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

I bet receiving trumps list of demands for his visit to Buckingham Palace is inspiring them to reconsider the idea of Elizabeth killing him with a sword.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:30 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

"The White House has made clear it regards the carriage procession down the Mall as an essential element of the itinerary for the visit currently planned for the second week of October, according to officials."

You know he's going to try and insist that this means he now owns it and can use it to travel around Mar-a-Lago or something. I would also check all the gold leaf and accoutrements after he left.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:32 AM on April 15, 2017

Christ, NPR just continues its decline into horribleness with this headline:

Trump's Travel Costs Add Up, Setting Him On Path To Outspend Obama

I mean, it's the web ... you couldn't have put "Four Times Over" at the end of the headline?
posted by jferg at 7:33 AM on April 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

this would preclude 90% of the propaganda and bullshit conspiracy mongering published in NYT and WaPo. This list is a Russian psyop! You've been duped!

Aren't you the guy who was trying to suggest that Jon Ossoff was a Wahabist a few days ago?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:37 AM on April 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted; sorry, better to skip the giant text-dumps in these crazy long threads; just excerpt the short bit you need and link the rest.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:46 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is there any chance we could talk the Queen into knighting him? After all, there's still parts of Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 that he hasn't violated yet...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:52 AM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Secret Service should not have to pay to follow the President around on his own property. How is that not obvious?
posted by worldswalker at 8:05 AM on April 15, 2017 [22 favorites]

Actual poll on http://whitehouse.gov right now to choose a federal agency to eliminate.

Vote your conscience.

I selected White House and under Why wrote:
1. Treason. 2. Corruption. 3. Bigotry
4. Looks awful in golf pants.

I may or may not have submitted it that way.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:28 AM on April 15, 2017 [20 favorites]

Republican senator gets owned by 16-year-old for gutting Planned Parenthood

FOXX: Jeff Flake. My name is Deja Foxx, and I’m a 16-year-old from Tucson. I just want to state some facts. So, I’m a young woman, and you’re a middle-aged man.

FLAKE: Ouch!

FOXX: I’m a person color and you’re white. I come from a background of poverty, and I didn’t always have parents to guide me through life. You come from privilege. So I’m wondering, as a Planned Parenthood patient and someone who relies on Title X, who you are clearly not, why it’s your right to take away my right to choose Planned Parenthood, and to choose no-copay birth control, to access that. So if you can explain that to me, I would appreciate it.

FLAKE: Well, thank you. I’m glad to hear of my privileged childhood. I have a few of my sisters here. I’m one of 11 kids, I’m right in the middle of 11. I didn’t grow up privileged, I paid for my college on my own, all on my own, so could I have — I do have — I am fortunate, I am fortunate that I do have a wonderful job representing the state of Arizona and I, and I want to …

FOXX: Privilege comes in many forms.

FLAKE: You bet it does, and I’ve had a lot of advantages that others haven’t, and what I want is to make sure that everyone can realize the American dream that all of us have been successful at. So that’s that’s what I’m trying to do, and that’s why I support the policies that I support.

FOXX: And if no-copay birth control is helping me to be successful, to reach for higher education, and Planned Parenthood is doing that as well, why would you deny me the American dream?

FLAKE: Thank you, that’s a great question. I wouldn’t deny anybody the American dream.
FOXX: Then support Planned Parenthood
posted by futz at 8:40 AM on April 15, 2017 [111 favorites]

FLAKE: Well, thank you. I’m glad to hear of my privileged childhood. I have a few of my sisters here. I’m one of 11 kids, I’m right in the middle of 11. I didn’t grow up privileged...

So, if his parents had had good access to birth control, would they actually have chosen to have 11 kids.
posted by puddledork at 8:47 AM on April 15, 2017 [13 favorites]

Burhanistan: ‘First protest in space’ targets Trump with an astronaut’s famous words

This is the most glorious thing I've seen wll week. At least.

Nearly $500,000 from President Trump's 2020 re-election campaign has gone directly to Trump-owned restaurants, hotels and golf clubs, The Wall Street Journal reported Saturday.

I'm sure he already knows, but I emailed this to Ted Lieu's office and asked if there was anything that could be done about it or our maniac president. (And, once again, told him he has my vote if he primaries Feinstein.)

I want a king hat

It's not called a king hat, sir.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:49 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

So, you guys, I've spent this week following an ambulance around the dfw metroplex trying to get to a hospital both in our network and with a pediatric trauma center. And then trying to find radiology centers with the same criteria, and trying to transport a kid bigger than me, in an immobilizer, in a tiny car, and have only barely had time to even look at the outside universe. (Mancub will be fine, no worries.) I'm 2000+ comments behind, and likely to declare comment bankruptcy, and just find the end point and start from there.

But, is there a good place to find an executive summary of the madness between 4/8 and now?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:07 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

"Only a trump would dictate to his hosts how he will be received."

Sounds pretty alpha. A gorka might do that, too.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:17 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hang in there SecretAgentSockpuppet, and maybe try What Just Happened?! A Review of President Trump’s Twelfth Week.
posted by peeedro at 9:18 AM on April 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

But, is there a good place to find an executive summary of the madness between 4/8 and now?

Well, here, I think.

But basically, not a lot. Sean Spicer accidentally sorta denied the Holocaust while trying to clarify exactly how evil Assad is. We bombed an airfield in Syria with no apparent plan, strategy or productive result. We dropped a bomb bigger than any other non-nuclear weapon in Afghanistan, possibly to intimidate North Korea. And our President basically taunted North Korea and made it clear that he has no understanding of the delicate balance in the region that's prevented a large-scale war from breaking out again.

So, uh, normal week in Trumpistan.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:19 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

Aren't you the guy who was trying to suggest that Jon Ossoff was a Wahabist a few days ago?

Yeah, although to be fair my exact words were, "Jon Ossoff thinks music is sacrilege and hungers to push the Alawites into the sea" which I think are open to interpretation.
posted by indubitable at 9:28 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

FLAKE: Well, thank you. I’m glad to hear of my privileged childhood. I have a few of my sisters here. I’m one of 11 kids, I’m right in the middle of 11. I didn’t grow up privileged...

Jeff Flake grew up, apparently unprivileged, in Snowflake, Arizona. The names are not coincidental.
posted by Etrigan at 9:32 AM on April 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

Federal immigration authorities have stopped issuing weekly reports on sanctuary cities, after just three weeks, following complaints that the reports were riddled with errors. Local cases that made the reports were all wrong.

There really isn't anything that these guys can't fuck up completely
posted by octothorpe at 9:35 AM on April 15, 2017 [46 favorites]

There really isn't anything that these guys can't fuck up completely

Think Progress: The White House Easter Egg Roll is like health care: Nobody knew it could be so complicated!

As the New York Times reports, everything about this year’s gathering, scheduled for Monday, appears to be about half the size of President Obama’s 2016 event: The number of guests expected to attend (20,000, down from 37,000 in 2016); the number of volunteers staffing it (just 500); even the number of commemorative eggs (40,000, down from 2016’s 85,000).

Prepare for two weeks of Trumptweets about how his Easter egg roll was soooo much bigger than Obama's.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:49 AM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

So, if his parents had had good access to birth control, would they actually have chosen to have 11 kids.

So, my family got together a couple years ago to celebrate my grandmother's birthday. It's a Catholic family, and while most of her children were born in a relatively short timespan, there's a couple aunts who, well, they're a bit on the younger side for the family. One of them made a joke about "I think some of us weren't totally planned!", to which my 90 year old grandmother replied "What makes you think I planned on any of you!"

Jeff Flake may be more "privileged" than he thinks.
posted by mrgoat at 9:56 AM on April 15, 2017 [31 favorites]

There really isn't anything that these guys can't fuck up completely

These guys could fuck up a wet dream. But not before selling it to the highest bidder first.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:09 AM on April 15, 2017

America: There really isn't anything that these guys can't fuck up completely

Well?
posted by petebest at 10:23 AM on April 15, 2017

Flake was born in Snowflake, Arizona, the son of Nerita (née Hock) and Dean Maeser Flake.[2] His birth town was named in part for his great-great-grandfather, Mormon pioneer William J. Flake.[3] Flake obtained a B.A. in International Relations and an M.A. in Political Science from Brigham Young University.[4] (Wikipedia)

It sounds kind of privileged.

In his campaign in 2000, Flake had pledged to serve no more than three terms in Congress which would see him serve no later than January 2007. Shortly after being elected for a third time, Flake announced in early 2005 that he had changed his mind on pledging term limits and was planning to run for re-election in 2006. "It was a mistake to limit my own terms," Flake said.[6]

Thus endeth my interest in ol' Flakey.
posted by petebest at 10:29 AM on April 15, 2017 [20 favorites]

April 12th, Democracy Now! Interviews Julian Assange.

Good interview. These are my takeaways from Assange:

1) Russia didn't give us the emails, but I won't say who did. No. No, you've seen enough of that one. I've never talked to Roger Stone, he's a liar and a nut.
2) What the emails showed was the DNC plan to force Clinton as candidate
3) Trump is horrible, of course, but the Democrats have only themselves to blame
4) I've been using the term 'deep state' for ten years to mean military-industrial complex + lobbyists + Senate committees
5) The UN said I should go free and be compensated

So, does he like Trump? He says he doesn't. Does he deny the DNC email leaks helped Trump win? No. Does he blame the DNC for being out of touch, and for a catastrophic, preventable election loss that gives the Republicans absolute power? He does.
posted by petebest at 10:54 AM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

He's not wrong.
posted by rhizome at 10:59 AM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

He *is* free. Be compensated for what?
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on April 15, 2017

The UN said I should go free and be compensated

For raping someone.

Assange should go free after raping someone because the UN said so.

Julian "the rapist" Assange should 'go free' from the crime he was too cowardly to face in Sweden. I suppose we should also start watching _Chinatown_ again while we're at it.

So, does he like Trump? He says he doesn't. Does he deny the DNC email leaks helped Trump win? No. Does he blame the DNC for being out of touch, and for a catastrophic, preventable election loss that gives the Republicans absolute power? He does.

"I hurt them, but it's not my fault!"

First of all, there's no reason to believe Assange here. He did a lot to help Trump, and a lot more to hurt Clinton. Not liking an outcome but preferring it over the alternative is still an opinion.

That said, one thing I realized in November is that there are a lot of seemingly-functional adults who think that an outcome could be horrifying and yet oppose the only other viable outcome and STILL think that I ought to respect them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:17 AM on April 15, 2017 [34 favorites]

Does he deny the DNC email leaks helped Trump win? No. Does he blame the DNC for being out of touch, and for a catastrophic, preventable election loss that gives the Republicans absolute power? He does.

Hey, remember when the Access Hollywood tape leaked and within a couple hours Wikileaks began posting the Podesta emails stolen by Russian intelligence in order to distract from said tape?

Fuck Julian Assange and his "preventable election loss" bullshit. "I helped kneecap the only sane candidate. If only someone had stopped me!"
posted by bluecore at 11:20 AM on April 15, 2017 [50 favorites]

I made a crack earlier about the big NK human display falling like dominoes with a push. I regret it. Something that's funny in it's absurdity might really not be funny at all.

These thousands of people are forced to be a pretty, flawless display. I admire them, because they are damned good at it. Just the physical stamina, and training and drilling. For one person, who so needs their devotion and perfection, when the one requires it.
posted by wallabear at 11:33 AM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Vanity Fair gives us some details on Jared's process for accomplishing things during the campaign:

Kushner was drawn into the campaign, and the administration, by degrees—“drafted into this crazy journey,” he has been heard to say. More than anything it’s a reflection of how few people there were to do anything in the campaign’s early days. At one point during the campaign, when Trump wanted to speak more substantively about China, he gave Kushner a summary of his views and then asked him to do some research. Kushner simply went on Amazon, where he was struck by the title of one book, Death by China, co-authored by Peter Navarro. He cold-called Navarro, a well-known trade-deficit hawk, who agreed to join the team as an economic adviser. (When he joined, Navarro was in fact the campaign’s only economic adviser.) Kushner operated in much the same way when it came to crafting Trump’s tax plan—calling up someone for help out of the blue. Given the initial absence of pros who could do the job properly, he also tried his hand at writing speeches. Responding to criticism from the boss (“Jared, this is terrible!”), Kushner said, according to a person familiar with the episode, “I’m not a fucking speechwriter. I am a real-estate guy.”

Does he walk around now going "I'm not a fucking mideast peacemaker, Secretary of State, opioid abuse epidemic specialist, or reorganizer of the federal government, and what the hell am I doing in Iraq. I am a real-estate guy." ?
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on April 15, 2017 [20 favorites]

Be compensated for what?

Service to Glorious Motherland.

(I wonder why Assange is choosing to address this at all at this point?)
posted by octobersurprise at 11:44 AM on April 15, 2017

Or, more briefly:

"It wasn't JUST my fault!" is an argument made by children and by convicted criminals hoping for a lighter sentence.

Even if Assange means he chose the lesser of two evils, that's still a choice.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:49 AM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ex-Army colonel: I’ve never been so concerned about US, world

"I've been through the Cuban missile crisis, I've been through the Bay of Pigs before that, Vietnam War, the two Iraq wars and so forth," Wilkerson told MSNBC.

"And I've got to tell you, though, I've never been so concerned, as I am now, for the state of this country and world relations."
posted by futz at 11:50 AM on April 15, 2017 [17 favorites]

With Trump Appointees, a Raft of Potential Conflicts and ‘No Transparency’

In at least two cases, the appointments may have already led to violations of the administration’s own ethics rules. But evaluating if and when such violations have occurred has become almost impossible because the Trump administration is secretly issuing waivers to the rules.

That, um, sounds bad.
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 AM on April 15, 2017 [26 favorites]

Kushner was drawn into the campaign, and the administration, by degrees—“drafted into this crazy journey,” he has been heard to say.

Huh, I wonder whether there's any historical analog for slowly increasing pressure that eventually gets you to do something that you wouldn't have imagined yourself doing...
posted by Etrigan at 12:06 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Bondi/Trump investigators: 'No interviews were conducted...'

Last week, I wrote that “I think I did more investigating on Bondi-Trump U than state ‘investigators’ did.”

Well, now I’ve confirmed it.

A spokeswoman for State Attorney Stephen Russell — the Fort Meyers prosecutor appointed by Gov. Rick Scott to probe the matter — confirmed yesterday that the investigating office did not conduct a single interview in the course of its review.

“No interviews were conducted as this was the review of a complaint and did not rise to the level of an investigation,” wrote Russell’s spokesman, Samantha Syoen.

Russell’s office said it found no evidence that Bondi did anything wrong when she solicited campaign donations from Donald Trump and then took $25,000 after her office had been asked to investigate Trump’s business .

......The report didn’t unearth any details the media hadn’t already reported. More troubling, it actually overlooked public records that raise questions about Bondi’s defense of ignorance on the matter.

Now that is some smelly bullshit right there
posted by futz at 12:07 PM on April 15, 2017 [34 favorites]

Now that is some smelly bullshit right there

SOP for the GOP.

The only difference is, with Trump at the top, it has be done hourly instead of daily.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:17 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

"It would be nice if the bomb could frighten Pyongyang, but its actual impact may just be the opposite," read the editorial that said Trump “may go down in history as the ‘war president’.”

The way things are going we'll be lucky if there is a history for Trump to go down in.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:19 PM on April 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

I just watched a series of programs on my local public television station called School, Inc., dated from this year, which was formatted like your average PBS series, but could easily have been propaganda directly funded by Betsy DeVos.

Initially it purports to be an objective examination of private/charter schooling in Chile, Sweden, and India. But at the end of the final episode it moves into a non sequitur discussion of Malthusian population constraints, aristocratic snobbery towards mercantile and working classes, and finished by declaring that improvement in the average living standard has only occurred in places where opposition to "education as a business" has diminished.

...and oh look, now that I'm googling it, turns out the host Andrew J. Coulson was the education guy at the Cato Institute before passing away from brain cancer last year.
posted by XMLicious at 12:29 PM on April 15, 2017

I can only hope every Tesco and Sainsbury's sells out of eggs.

I would totally get behind this. Except it would be wrong to startle the horses, already forced to serve this loathsome man.
posted by Glinn at 12:34 PM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump “may go down in history as the ‘war president’.”

Anything like Doctor Who's "War Doctor"? If so, it's a bad time to be on Gallifrey. But on the good side, maybe we'll get to omit him from the numerical count...

"education as a business"

The way that the masses are educated is always determined by the interests of those providing the money. There was a time when you could say 'improvement in the average living standard' was a priority of some of the money providers, but that is totally not the case from American business today.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:37 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good point on the horses. Carrots and sugar cubes instead?
posted by notyou at 12:38 PM on April 15, 2017

Absolute silence, folded arms, backs turned, surely.
posted by petebest at 12:43 PM on April 15, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Trump goes to his church almost every weekend. It's called Mar-a-lago, and at that holy temple he worships his personal savior, Mammon.":

"The Church of Meatloaf
Is such a holy place to be..."

And as they were eating, he took a well-done steak, and when he had blessed, he brake it, and gave to them, except Sad Chris Christie, to whom he gave a few crumbs of meatloaf, and said, Take ye: this is my body, the greatest body, very healthy. And he took the ketchup, and when he had given thanks to himself and talked about how he won the election hugely, he squirted it on them and they all rubbed it on their well-done steaks, except Sad Chris Christie, who rubbed it on his meatloaf crumbs. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the Mar-A-Lago covenant, which is squirted out for those who can afford the membership, even Sad Chris Christie, but only today.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:45 PM on April 15, 2017 [20 favorites]

Absolute silence, folded arms, backs turned, surely.

Even better: don't show up. Leave London as empty as Washington on inauguration day.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2017 [19 favorites]

The UN said I should go free and be compensated

For raping someone.

Assange should go free after raping someone because the UN said so.

The UN's track record with rape is not very good (or more accurately it is as bad as it could possibly be since they have a huge problem with rapey peacekeepers going unpunished).
posted by srboisvert at 1:56 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump Demands Gold‑Plated Welcome—President Insists On a Carriage Journey Down the Mall To Buckingham Palace: "The White House has made clear it regards the carriage procession down the Mall as an essential element of the itinerary for the visit currently planned for the second week of October, according to officials."

The crowd shots from this will be amazing.

Particularly if you are fan of lager lout bottom.
posted by srboisvert at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

Estonia: The Little Spycatcher Who Could - Every year the Estonians come out with an unvarnished and all too accurate assessment of Russian skullduggery. The latest is very interesting indeed.
posted by futz at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

Warren avoids party infighting in her new book

Among the goals she believes Democrats should push now: breaking up the biggest banks.

During the campaign, Trump called for restoring the Depression-era division between plain-vanilla banking and riskier investment activities, known as the Glass-Steagall Act.

Warren has written a bill with Arizona Republican John McCain that would impose a modern version of those restrictions.

Warren said she recently pressed top White House economic adviser Gary Cohn, a former top executive at Goldman Sachs, about the bill and whether Trump planned to make good on his campaign pledge. Cohn was supportive.

“He was feisty about it,” Warren said, recounting the closed-door meeting of lawmakers on the Banking Committee. “When some of the Republicans in the room pushed back on him, he pushed back at them.”
posted by futz at 2:55 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Mod note: One comment deleted. We're not debating Julian Assange's rape charge here; been there done that, go back and read the old threads.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:56 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

So, there are protests in a lot of cities today. I only knew of the Tax Day protest here in Portland, but Shane Bauer is in Berkeley showing the chaos that was their pro-Trump rally, in which a lot of neo-Nazis showed up. Link
posted by gucci mane at 2:56 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, she also says that McConnell hasn't spoken to her since he led the senate Repubs in that vote where they formally silenced her.

“I’ve spoken to him, but he has not spoken to me,” Warren said, laughing in a disbelieving way, shaking her head. “I say hello to Mitch every chance I get, and he turns his head.”

So Alpha, so adult, Mitch.
posted by futz at 2:59 PM on April 15, 2017 [67 favorites]

Oh, she also says that McConnell hasn't spoken to her since he led the senate Repubs in that vote where they formally silenced her.


It's good to know that Mitch McConnell is cut from the same cloth as the PTA moms that I have been dealing with for the past year. Unsurprisingly one of them is a hardcore Trumpette.
posted by jferg at 3:51 PM on April 15, 2017 [16 favorites]

This is fucking nuts, from gucci mane's link: I tell a police officer I've been seeing people get beat up all day and they haven't been around. "Okay, and?" he says.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:04 PM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

Photos from the tax protest in Cambridge, MA.
posted by adamg at 4:09 PM on April 15, 2017 [7 favorites]

Two man-children with the fate of Korea in their hands.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:15 PM on April 15, 2017

Two man-children with the fate of Korea in their hands.

I think you mean "the fate of the world"
posted by dis_integration at 4:18 PM on April 15, 2017

Photos from the tax protest in Cambridge, MA.

At the one in St. Paul someone had a huge dayglo sign reading "MAR A LA GO FUCK YOURSELF".
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:22 PM on April 15, 2017 [31 favorites]

North Korea attempts but fails to launch missile: South Korea
posted by futz at 4:32 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

A Saturday New York Times article revealed that President Donald Trump’s eldest daughter Ivanka is the individual most responsible for the diminution of former Breitbart.com CEO Stephen Bannon’s role in the White House. (Rawstory)

According to the Times, the president’s daughter has been making a case for Bannon’s removal to her father “in the strongest terms.” . . .

“In recent weeks, she has spoken bluntly about Mr. Bannon’s shortcomings to the president. She was especially incensed by articles she believed were planted by Mr. Bannon’s allies suggesting he, not her father, honed the populist economic message that helped sweep the Midwest. She made that point in the strongest terms to her father, who agreed, according to a family friend,” the report continued.

Ivanka Trump reportedly sees one of her roles in the White House is to serve as a protector of the family brand. (Emphasis added)

Attaway to pick yer battles, kid. The family brand needs protecting. Screw those "people" the press thinks you're there to "serve".
posted by petebest at 4:44 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Militias, alt-right, nazis etc won today in Berkeley. They outnumbered the opposition, pushed it back, and held downtown. Today's America. From Shane Bauer. Click through for photos and videos from that protest.

Ugh. The left seems to have lost their ability to engage neo-Nazis and others on the far right. This is terrifying.

.@BasedStickMan_ says "Berkeley got sacked." To Seattle, Boston, and other cities: "We're coming for you."

There are already Nazis in Portland. They got kicked out of a bar, and on a Jewish holiday they spray painted swastikas all over a neighborhood. The left needs to begin standing up to this sort of aggression, and we need to begin defending our friends and family and communities.
posted by gucci mane at 4:52 PM on April 15, 2017 [19 favorites]

I have to say, this whole North Korea business is precisely the kind of thing I worried about with Trump's election - the idea that we'd get into a sort of performative nuclear war, where nothing at all is actually at stake and the Trump administration is just LARPing. Say what you will about the eighties, at least if we'd gotten into a nuclear war with the USSR it would have been because the US and the USSR each would have benefited materially by victory over the other, and they were plausible enemies. It would have been the end of the world, but at least...I dunno, people genuinely believed their beliefs? This business - if left mostly alone and given with some foreign aid to sweeten the pot and possibly trickle down to ordinary citizens, North Korea is a threat to no one and nothing except its own people. They don't want to start a war or invade South Korea or nuke Japan, that's patently obvious, but if we're dumb enough and aggro enough about it, we might be able to panic and bluster them into doing one of those things.

It's the shabby phoniness of the whole present day situation that makes it seem almost incomprehensible to me. I remember the Reagan administration and I can never recall in all my life such an atmosphere of fraud and open hypocrisy. Is it even hypocrisy if you don't expect people to believe that you believe what you say?
posted by Frowner at 4:54 PM on April 15, 2017 [28 favorites]

Militias, alt-right, nazis etc won today in Berkeley. They outnumbered the opposition, pushed it back, and held downtown. Today's America.

I do not know how to link to a comment on a tweet (or whatever a response there is called; do not pretend you don't know what I mean), but don't miss Shane Bauer's handling of "You might want to reconsider your positions when you're calling people defending free speech 'nazis'". from user "White Finland 1918".
posted by thelonius at 5:01 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh bull hockey "they're coming for us".

I'm sorry, "we had what was obviously a pretty small-scale punch-up in Berkeley, now we won America"? If having a small scale punch up in Berkeley meant an American walkover, we would have been ruled by crusty punks these twenty years.

Nope, I'm still not impressed by the alt-right. This is not Weimar, these people are not ex-soldiers who know how to run a paramiliary organization. They're creepy little white boys with gender issues who like how it makes them feel big, same as ever was.

Should the left figure out some better strategies for dealing with them? Yeah, I guess - and I think that a popular front between left-liberals and anarchists (since anarchists tend to be okay at punching) is probably the way to do it, because you need numbers and respectable events but you also need punching.

But they're the scum that boils on the top of the pot - the problem is the boiling, not the scum. Stop the pot boiling and you can get rid of the scum easily enough.

Don't get hypnotized by fear, is what I'm saying.
posted by Frowner at 5:01 PM on April 15, 2017 [70 favorites]

seriously, they had to ship nazis in from out of town to get anywhere, on a day where thousands of anti-trump marchers flooded the streets all across the country.

the best response to these assholes would be to rent a couple hundred clown suits and vuvuzelas and drown them out with honks and laughter.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:06 PM on April 15, 2017 [18 favorites]

LA Times on the Berkeley protests

Brenna Lundy, 28, said she drove from San Francisco to attend what she thought was an organizing event against the alt-right. As the violence unfolded, she stayed and attempted to talk to some of the people shouting insults at her.

“So I genuinely wanted to talk. I am trying to talk to you,” Lundy said to a woman screaming at her that “Obama hates blacks.”

Another woman from the pro-Trump side came up to Lundy and, putting a hand to her ear, said, “Ask her why she hates white people.”

Lundy looked confused. She gave up and turned away.

“This is more of a riot,” she said.

Meanwhile, giving a speech at a well-secured end of the park, alt-right blogger Lauren Southern railed against societal change, Kim Kardashian and the media. She called on members of her movement to “realize Trump is only a foot in the door.”

“We must become like them: subversive,” she said of her opponents.

That's all-the-way-back-around bananapants.
posted by petebest at 5:08 PM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

Okay, which MeFites were at the Berkeley protests?

One standoff at a downtown intersection ended only when a smoke grenade detonated. In confusion, anti-Trump protesters fled as supporters of the president charged after them, attacking stragglers. In one altercation, demonstrators threw a pot of beans at each other.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:13 PM on April 15, 2017 [39 favorites]

If you're going to quote the LA Times article, you've got to pullquote this bit:

A regularly scheduled farmer’s market, which is usually held adjacent to the park, was canceled as a precaution.

A single vendor showed up Saturday to sell organic produce. “Rain or shine or fascism we will be here,” said a young woman operating the cash register.

Never change, Berkeley.
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on April 15, 2017 [42 favorites]

Trump's motorcade steers clear of Tax March protesters in Fla.

Anyone have a clue if this is SOP when dealing with protests or is it Trump already pretending that he is in a gold carriage with the curtains closed?
posted by futz at 5:15 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

The first rule of Nazi-punching is punch to win, and if you can't win by punching then don't punch, that's my impression. We outnumber the alt-right by a factor of about umpteen gazillion. If what's happening is that the alt-right outnumbers young antifa who are ready to throw down, then we can't confront them on that level. The alt right does not outnumber, like, liberal grandmas and social justice junior high students and random gay activists and union clerical workers, etc, etc, and the alt-right is going to do what? Punch a grandma? If the alt-right wants to punch grandma on national television, the alt right should just go ahead and fucking try.

It's not that I don't admire antifa who are unafraid to mix it up - there have been plenty of times in MPLS's own history when physically fighting the right in the street was a good choice. It's just that if what's happening is that the alt-right can actually, with some complicity from the cops, outnumber and overwhelm antifa, then it's no longer a winning strategy.

Also - and I wouldn't say this to just anyone, metafilter, but I have a couple of years of the streetfighting kind of protest in my past. Not that I was ever very streetfighty, but, like, I did get into physical conflicts in mass protests. And the thing is, those situations develop their own fucked up dynamics and they can get kind of bananapants. People get itchy to fight and they make bad decisions - I remember getting itchy to fight myself, back in the day, and I remember being in crowds where people really came prepared to fight. (This is different from BLM protests where violence occurred - those were, by contrast, fairly peaceful marches organized around blocking traffic and they were pushed by cop behavior into some violence.) So basically I just am not as scared by this kind of thing - I mean, I'd be scared if I were in the middle of it, you bet - in the sense that I don't see it as necessarily presaging mass riots everywhere.
posted by Frowner at 5:18 PM on April 15, 2017 [27 favorites]

Ugh. The left seems to have lost their ability to engage neo-Nazis and others on the far right. This is terrifying.

No, "the left" is not anitfa, and it's not the equal and opposite Jill Stein edgelords pedantically claiming to defend "free speech" by endorsing the Nazi's viewpoint either.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:42 PM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

The best way to fight them is not to fight them, but to shine a light on them: hey, Republicans, this is your party in 2017; Trump, these neck-tattoo thugs swigging milk and throwing Nazi salutes are your base.
posted by Flashman at 5:43 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

but to shine a light on them: hey, Republicans, this is your party in 2017

You're assuming that they would dislike it. I don't think that's true.
posted by Justinian at 5:45 PM on April 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

North Korea has attempted to launch a missile on its east coast which is believed to have failed, South Korean and US military officials say.
posted by adamvasco at 5:48 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

I assume that this is another win for a Stuxnet-type program that's been targeting North Korea's missiles for years.
posted by ymgve at 5:57 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

I always figured it was something like Stuxnet or sabotage by scientists in their missile program.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:59 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's basically the same old ineptitude, only with a Trump admin looking for excuses to start wars, because it would be domestically beneficial for them. The Trumps are definitely not taking Obama-like positions on North Korea.

The missile launch looks to have been from near their major Submarine base, which fits in with the current media frenzy about North Korean SLBMs.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:00 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Never attribute to Stuxnet that which can be explained by poor engineering.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:01 PM on April 15, 2017 [14 favorites]

There's no public word yet of what kind of missile. The twitter NK arms people don't know either.

It's basically the same old ineptitude

Well, we say that, but they're getting better all the time. If this was a new missile type a failure on a first try isn't unexpected. All the mobile launchers they paraded around yesterday are really concerning, eventually they're going to get a functioning missile to pair with those. Although they're still a long ways from a miniaturized warhead to complete the delivery system. We think.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:03 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Paul Ryan Raised $657,000 While Avoiding His Constituents During Recess

HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN snubbed his Wisconsin constituents during the President’s Day congressional recess, refusing to hold even a single town hall...

-- The Supreme Court’s 2014 McCutcheon v. FEC ruling eliminated the cap on the total amount any individual can contribute to federal candidates established after the Watergate scandal. Then Congress moved to increase party contribution limits...

-- As a result, these joint committees can receive up to $244,200 per person. Several donors made five- and six-figure contributions during the recess to Team Ryan [...] and six members of his family each gave between $10,000 and $15,000.

-- The CLF account, which can accept unlimited contributions from virtually any source, was buoyed by large checks from major corporations. The Geo Group, the Florida-based private prison company, gave $100,000 and Chevron gave $250,000.

-- During the Kansas special election that was held last Tuesday, nearly all of the independent expenditures came from the Ryan-backed NRCC and CLF, which collectively spent $180,000 to boost Ron Estes...

The 2 linked article are fucking depressing too. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

> Paul Ryan Fundraised With Health Insurance Lobbying Firm Just Before His PowerPoint

> Speaker Paul Ryan, After Passing Regulatory Rollback, Parties With Lobbyists at Fundraiser
posted by futz at 6:09 PM on April 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

So why can't we just leave them alone and ignore them? Why are we obligated to respond at all to the shouty-shout megalomania of their leadership? It could be as easy as issuing a tongue-in-cheek statement along the lines of "Yeah yeah, you're right, you are supreme and North Korea is the best ever, we will respect that and leave you alone" and they would be satisfied.

I'm almost certain that their terms for peace are reunification of the Korean peninsula under rule of the Kims. When they talk about Korea in the North, they don't stop drawing Korea at the 38th parallel.
posted by dis_integration at 6:18 PM on April 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

This was the second missile to explode on the launchpad from this site. Layman' guess is that they're trying to build something new. Given that they have only liquid fueled missiles at the moment, and any ICBM is going to require a solid fuel design; it seems pretty obvious what's going on. They're just having typical North Korean engineering issues.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:23 PM on April 15, 2017

Soon maybe they'll just start building Potemkin villages along the motorcade route so he doesn't have to sully his beautiful mind with the plight of the peasants.
posted by darkstar at 6:45 PM on April 15, 2017 [13 favorites]

All I can say about Southern is, thank god she's not in Canada anymore.

You can have her.

Oh btw, she's also falsified government documents(claimed she was male, because lol trans ppl), and filmed a Service Ontario agent while she did it, which she no doubt used when entering the United States.


I hope she becomes a US citizen and gives up her Canadian citizenship for the lolz.

Enjoy! PS on top of being a Nazi she thinks rape isn't real.

PPS We've got this guy named Ezra. He runs a successful business that caters mostly to Americans. Do you want him?
posted by Yowser at 6:46 PM on April 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

the alt-right is going to do what? Punch a grandma?

Yes. (Sept. 2016)
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's basically the same old ineptitude

They're just having typical North Korean engineering issues.

America having missile failures during their ICBM development.
posted by srboisvert at 6:57 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]

darkstar: "Soon maybe they'll just start building Potemkin villages along the motorcade route so he doesn't have to sully his beautiful mind with the plight of the peasants."

I object to this analogy as unfairly lumping in Catherine the Great with Trump. Trump would be lucky to be 5% the leader Catherine was.

She was a mixed bag, but that's still outdoing DJT by a country mile.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:19 PM on April 15, 2017 [10 favorites]

SPECIAL ELECTIONS NEWS

GA-06:

* New Revily poll:

Ossoff 45
Handel 17
Gray 16
Moody 9

==

MT-AL:

* Good WaPo write-up on the race.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:30 PM on April 15, 2017 [11 favorites]

When they talk about Korea in the North, they don't stop drawing Korea at the 38th parallel.

Unless I'm mistaken, South Korea claims to be the legitimate government of the whole of Korea too, right?
posted by XMLicious at 7:37 PM on April 15, 2017

Unless I'm mistaken, South Korea claims to be the legitimate government of the whole of Korea too, right?

Who knew geopolitics would be hard?
posted by mikelieman at 7:39 PM on April 15, 2017 [4 favorites]

It’s not what you would think.
posted by XMLicious at 7:50 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maybe we should reunify North and South Carolina first....
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

Democrats fear that Trump has barred key federal workers from speaking to them

Democrats in Congress are accusing the Trump administration of ordering officials in federal departments and agencies to withhold information they need to carry out their duties, such as preparing for committee hearings.

Party leaders say officials have routinely provided documents and detailed explanations of programs in the past, but now at least two ranking Democrats on congressional committees say their staff members were told directly by workers in agencies that they could no longer speak with them.

The issue started in January and grew into such a concern that House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) asked Rep. John Sarbanes (D-Md.) to track Democrats’ correspondence to the executive branch that have gotten no response. So far, Sarbanes said, there are more than 100 cases from the House.

...At the end of a list of complaints, Carper stated that “I am even more disturbed by the explicit statements made by GSA officials during this briefing that, beginning on Jan. 20, 2017, the Trump administration changed GSA’s long-standing practice of providing certain documents requested by minority members of Congress.

“During the briefing,” Carper continued, “agency personnel stated that its new practice only assures that such documents will be provided to the committee’s chairman.” Both congressional chambers and their committees are controlled by Republicans, putting Democrats at a disadvantage that did not exist during previous administrations.

...Grijalva said he was told that Fish and Wildlife workers couldn’t speak to minority staff unless they were called as a witness at a hearing. “I’ve been on this committee going on my 15th year,” Grijalva said. “This kind of response is unprecedented.”

Republicans: obstructionists​, liars, & cheaters, oh my. Deny deny deny. Rinse & repeat.
posted by futz at 8:10 PM on April 15, 2017 [73 favorites]

They caught Berkley by surprise. It won't happen again. No, wait, that's too strong of an understatement. I know a 45 y.o. 6'8", 270lb NFL-level athletic Marxist who lives in Toronto who has literally been waiting his entire adult life to fight Nazis in the streets. He's been contenting himself with Toronto police riot-squads, and has admitted to me recently they no longer pose as much of a challenge. He has enough means to fly himself and his entire cadre to where the trouble is.

If they come to Boston or Providence, well. I am here. I will remain when they are gone.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:12 PM on April 15, 2017 [18 favorites]

Also, as far as just leaving the DPRK alone, they don't want to be just left alone and really can't isolate themselves. The DPRK frequently depends on food imports from other nations, relies on trade with other nations for all manner of material, exports coal and labor, and generally absolutely needs trade with the rest of the world. Or at least parts of it.

Which is where things get touchy and delicate. Because the DPRK depends on outside trade, but frequently won't play by the rules and rattles sabers even at its allies. For example, when the PRC was sending trains loaded with relief supplies, the DPRK took the supplies, and the trains. They claimed it was their understanding that the trains were part of the aid. Or the DPRK habit of kidnapping foreigners who have skills lacking in the DPRK.

Hell, the DPRK has about 20% of its trade with the ROK, with which it is technically at war.

So they aren't actually demanding to be left alone, they want trade and international involvement. They just want it in a way that's incompatible with what other nations think of as acceptable trade partner behavior.

And the rest of the world has a difficult time totally cutting off the DRPK for a variety of reasons, including the risk that if they did the DPRK might actually launch a war, and the risk of cutting the DPRK off turning the desperation and poverty of its citizens into mass famine and megadeaths. It's important to remember that in a very real sense the Kims aren't just holding Seoul hostage, they're holding all 25 million people in the DPRK hostage. And no one wants to find out if they really will kill the hostages.

Plus China sees strategic benefit in the DPRK continuing to exist, so they'll trade with them (for limited values of "trade"), which means that other nations in the region are unlikely to join in a total embargo since that'd mean letting China have all the trade benefits.
posted by sotonohito at 8:12 PM on April 15, 2017 [10 favorites]

Let me put this more succinctly, I have a career and a job and a family and I am no longer young, and the entirety of my future and the future of those I love rests on me fighting Nazis in the streets. I have no idea how things came to this, but I am ready and boy howdy, I'm big.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:21 PM on April 15, 2017 [33 favorites]

I'm not looking forward to NK having the ability to deliver a nuke to Los Angeles given that I live here. But I trust Trump to stop it in a responsible and rational manner even less. That's how terrible he is; I'm less scared of NORTH KOREA having the ability to nuke me than of Donald Trump.
posted by Justinian at 8:44 PM on April 15, 2017 [6 favorites]

SNL Cold open - Kushner vs Bannon
posted by zachlipton at 8:50 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

SNL - Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer in an Easter Bunny suit explaining Passover
posted by zachlipton at 9:27 PM on April 15, 2017 [8 favorites]

zachlipton, are the skits funny at all?

humor is subjective etc etc...
posted by futz at 9:31 PM on April 15, 2017

In my opinion: the cold open was reasonably funny, though not really pushing the envelope from past Oval Office cold opens. The Spicer one abandoned pretty much any pretense of comedy and is somewhere between cringeworthy viciousness and the-world-is-ending-perhaps-thats-for-the-better despair.
posted by zachlipton at 9:50 PM on April 15, 2017 [9 favorites]

I have only the barest familiarity with protesting from the last 12 months, and none with protesting met by violent opposition; it's probably obvious, but it's just occurring to me that maybe the salient thing in the Shane Bauer photos and video is the helmets and mouthguards. Quickly googling, in BLM and other anti-Trump protests it's usually only the cops wearing helmets and the occasional journalist, isn't it?

So is that the detail to point out to people—that the helmets and mouthguards are evidence the the Trumpshirts came intending to start fights? Or would I find the same kinds of photos for any major protest if I look hard enough?
posted by XMLicious at 9:57 PM on April 15, 2017

The closest I've seen before this was gas masks. The helmets are fucking bizarre.
posted by corb at 10:26 PM on April 15, 2017

The neo Nazi social media are quite overjoyed that they managed to get one of their own on camera punching a woman half their size and then fleeing so there's that.
posted by The Whelk at 10:29 PM on April 15, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm not looking forward to NK having the ability to deliver a nuke to Los Angeles

In our lifetimes?
posted by rhizome at 10:41 PM on April 15, 2017 [2 favorites]

I haven't been to a huge number of protests, but I don't think I've seen anyone except the cops wearing armor at any that I've been to. You bring armor for two reasons: either you're expecting violence, or you're trying to intimidate people with the threat of it. The conservatives at Berkeley were doing both, and they were only expecting violence because they intended to commit it.

And don't let anybody sell you any "alt-right" bullshit; this is and always has been the Republican base. There are no Republican voters who are substantially better than these guys, in no small part because anyone voting Republican is at the very least vociferously supporting these guys and trying to push them into positions of power.

Bauer's footage of the police completely refusing to do their jobs while they watch conservatives assaulting people makes me wonder anew: is there any way to fix our police force? Ideally the police would be prepared to intervene and do their jobs when the conservatives enact the next part of their campaign of domestic terrorism (or whatever truly terrible thing they're going to do when it becomes clear to them that they're going to lose control of the government), but I think we all reasonably expect the police to be more interested in participating than interfering. Is there any way from the current world to something closer to that ideal? Is there any way to put legal/administrative/community pressure on the force to get it to fire police who commit crimes or refuse to prevent them on camera? Can we, at the very least, make the police afraid of the consequences of not fighting conservative terrorism?
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:25 PM on April 15, 2017 [25 favorites]

They were planning for violence on Twitter.
posted by asteria at 12:00 AM on April 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

Can we, at the very least, make the police afraid of the consequences of not fighting conservative terrorism?

dude. we can't make the police afraid of the consequences of shooting an innocent black man to death. in broad daylight. in the back. on video.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:01 AM on April 16, 2017 [70 favorites]

Also, if we try to make rules to prevent future police brutality it hurts their feelings: Attorney General Jeff Sessions: Consent decrees 'can reduce morale of the police officers'

#BlueFeelingsMatterMore
posted by mikelieman at 3:13 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

the best response to these assholes would be to rent a couple hundred clown suits and vuvuzelas and drown them out with honks and laughter.

Fun fact: this has already been done in Finland. It was pretty damn funny.
posted by sively at 3:29 AM on April 16, 2017 [10 favorites]

Heh heh, one of the clowns had a flag that said "Sieg Fail!"
posted by XMLicious at 3:43 AM on April 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

Can we, at the very least, make the police afraid of the consequences of not fighting conservative terrorism?

Police departments the world over have a long history of tacitly supporting or at least ignoring conservative terrorism.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:07 AM on April 16, 2017 [13 favorites]

Hillary Clinton Trump...

The US in recent years has sent a small number of special operations forces and counter-terror advisers to Somalia, and President Donald Trump recently approved an expanded military role there.

(my bolding)

US deploys 'a few dozen' troops to Somalia: Pentagon
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:51 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

A bunch of clowns fairly infamously took on a KKK rally in Knoxville, TN in 2007.. There's even a children's book about it. Those of us in the US southeast have been fighting against fascists both peacefully and not a long time. We've got ideas that work.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:58 AM on April 16, 2017 [22 favorites]

NYPost: Melania and Barron are moving to the White House soon: Barron will be the first son of a president to live in the White House in more than 50 years, since an infant John F. Kennedy Jr. arrived there in 1961.

Melania has taken an active part in arranging the residence ahead of the move, a senior aide said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:47 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Melania has taken an active part in arranging the residence ahead of the move, a senior aide said.

Had to set up the tanks for 2Donald and 3Donald and 2Barron and 3Barron.
posted by valkane at 5:56 AM on April 16, 2017 [9 favorites]

Can we, at the very least, make the police afraid of the consequences of not fighting conservative terrorism?

dude. we can't make the police afraid of the consequences of shooting an innocent black man to death. in broad daylight. in the back. on video.

Exactly. The police already are right-wing terrorists for certain segments of the populace, or for you, if you happen to cross them.
posted by dis_integration at 6:02 AM on April 16, 2017 [16 favorites]

I live with, and am a caretaker of a 12 year old with special needs. There is nothing about Trump that I could ever support. But, if the comments on the many threads here over the last many months are anything to be trusted, Barron has special needs. I also don't have any special empathy for Melania, except on this point. Please do not bring this into these threads.
posted by michswiss at 6:16 AM on April 16, 2017 [24 favorites]

I really dig the clown approach. It would not be hard to impersonate and derail/punk these morons.

At the Raleigh tax march yesterday, 2 pro trump doofuses pushed their way in front of us. They were quite obviously scoping out the crowd, videoing on their phones & poking fun at the speakers. They made weak attempt to "blend in" by clapping when everyone else clapped, but it was clear they they were quite obviously not the same flavor as the other 6,000 or so of us.

I wanted to lean over and say, "you know, we can see you."

Asswipes didn't even have the balls to stand there and NOT clap. They looked like Suzy & Bobby prep school trust funders. No signs. Just smirks.

SLoG I looked for you there!
posted by yoga at 6:49 AM on April 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

Doctor Gorka. I didn't spend six years in evil medical school to be called Mister Gorka, thank you very much.
posted by indubitable at 7:07 AM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

I really dig the clown approach.

Me too. Every Nazi march really needs another bunch of clowns.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:08 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump responds to protests demanding he release his tax returns: 'The election is over'

Oh. Oh, well okay then I guess. Right, Chuck Todd?
posted by petebest at 7:40 AM on April 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

I thought he was already running for the next one?
posted by box at 7:50 AM on April 16, 2017 [17 favorites]

The election is over? But he's already running for 2020...
posted by Devonian at 7:53 AM on April 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

gahjinx
posted by Devonian at 7:54 AM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Results of Turkey's constitutional referendum, to make Edrogan dictator, are just starting to come in.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 AM on April 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Revising turnout to 83.89 % for #Turkeyreferendum with 44.4% of ballots counted Yes:58.6% No: 41.4%" - Amberin Zaman.
posted by progosk at 8:36 AM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Wow that Turkey vote is frightening. They jailed all the adults I guess.

Not an actual dictator, just likely President for twelve more years followed by leader of Parliament for life and a hand-picked bench. And a hand-picked no-vote cabinet. Which is nice.

Wonder what Fox News' Trump's take will be.
posted by petebest at 8:43 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, when the world has nothing but dictators, will they then cannibalize each other like the GOP is doing to itself now?
posted by yoga at 8:47 AM on April 16, 2017

And you and I will be the appetizers, our lands passed around like the salt.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 8:50 AM on April 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

UPDATE: Anadolu Agency is reporting 98.5% of the boxes counted.

Yes: 51.49%. No: 48.51%

Also, "no" votes ahead in Turkey's three largest cities: Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir.

Source. Grauniad live
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:51 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Not an actual dictator, just likely President for twelve more years followed by leader of Parliament for life and a hand-picked bench. And a hand-picked no-vote cabinet. Which is nice.

Not an actual dictator. Just one enabling act away.
posted by Talez at 10:01 AM on April 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

Guardian update:

Disparity in reporting of opened ballots

The High Electoral Board in Turkey are saying that the number of opened ballots is lower than the figures being given on state-run news agency Anadolu.

---

Selin Girit ✔ @selingirit
Spoke to High Electoral Board just now. Official figures given:
60% ballot boxes opened
Yes - 53.98%
No - 46.02%
5:41 PM - 16 Apr 2017

---

Alp Ozcelik ✔ @alplicable
Don't forget: Anadolu Agency numbers show 99% of ballot boxes opened. The Supreme Election Committee official number is 65% opened. https://t.co/ZjpyuqAgWp
5:56 PM - 16 Apr 2017 · Manhattan, NY

Well. That is as suspicious as a very suspicious thing.
posted by jaduncan at 10:08 AM on April 16, 2017 [15 favorites]

This article (archive.org link) says Berkeley: Violent Trump Supporters Are Merging with the Alt-Right
by Northern California Anti-Racist Action NoCARA

Appears to say that the actively violent Trump faction is made up primarily anarchist capitalists, who support fascism as a way to kill all the wrong people before implementing glorious anarchy on our tightly regulated markets. (Which, is that an ethos?)

Anyhoo, several individuals making wire service photos are profiled. It's an interesting read. Also, kids, don't do the social. It's bad, mmkay.
posted by petebest at 10:20 AM on April 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm uncertain as to how they were different things to begin with?
posted by Artw at 10:49 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Whelk: "The neo Nazi social media are quite overjoyed that they managed to get one of their own on camera punching a woman half their size and then fleeing so there's that."

Chris Evan's reaction: I hope I run into Nathan.
posted by octothorpe at 11:31 AM on April 16, 2017 [17 favorites]

I think, this year above all others, there's a certain inevitability in Erdogan skinning a narrow victory in an election to make him dictator for life. Maybe I'm becoming too pessimistic, but from the moment the vote was announced, so closely after the "coup" that failed, I felt certain it would pass (whether legitimately or not).
posted by sotonohito at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, when the world has nothing but dictators, will they then cannibalize each other like the GOP is doing to itself now?

I suspect they will treat each other the way CEOs and hedge fund managers treat each other.
posted by kewb at 11:38 AM on April 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

New York Times defends hiring extreme climate denier: ‘millions agree with him’

-- This defense is especially absurd since, as I detailed Friday, the Times has been running a major ad campaign claiming there is no alternative to the truth — and former Wall Street Journal deputy editorial page editor Stephens has repeatedly dismissed as “imaginary” the climate reality reported on every week by the Times’ own journalists.

-- In 2015, he called concern over climate change “hysteria” and wrote that global warming — along with hunger in America, campus rape statistics, and institutionalized racism — are “imaginary enemies.” He is so extreme that he dismissed the well-documented “vanishing polar ice” as based on “flimsy studies” — when in fact it has been unbelievably well documented, including by the Times itself.

NYT James Bennet responds to HuffPo and it is total bullshit.

The charge that Stephens is a “climate denialist” is “terribly unfair,” Bennet said. “There’s more than one kind of denial,” he continued. “And to pretend like the views of a thinker like Bret, and the millions of people who agree with him on a range of issues, should simply be ignored, that they’re outside the bounds of reasonable debate, is a really dangerous form of delusion.”
posted by futz at 11:46 AM on April 16, 2017 [10 favorites]

“There’s more than one kind of denial,” he continued. “And to pretend like the views of a thinker like Bret, and the millions of people who agree with him on a range of issues, should simply be ignored, that they’re outside the bounds of reasonable debate, is a really dangerous form of delusion.”
Could also perfectly apply to Hitler's thinking about Jews. But then, the NYT has been THE pioneer in normalizing Donald Trump, going back to the 1980s...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:54 AM on April 16, 2017 [19 favorites]

Guns, Extremism, and Threats of Escalation
Behind the far-right’s “counter-resistance”.
posted by adamvasco at 12:35 PM on April 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

There was a nice little detail in the latest SNL cold open: Trump/Alec Baldwin had a Russian flag on his lapel.
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 12:47 PM on April 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

Alt-right leader Mike Cernovich punched in the face at Tax March rally
posted by indubitable at 12:59 PM on April 16, 2017 [25 favorites]

Georgia Republican admits the game is rigged against Ossoff: ‘These lines were not drawn’ to elect Democrat

...At a GOP breakfast on the district’s eastern DeKalb outskirts, state Sen. Fran Millar criticized Democrats who think it’s a “done deal that this kid’s going to become the Congressman.”

“I’ll be very blunt: These lines were not drawn to get Hank Johnson’s protégé to be my representative. And you didn’t hear that,” said Millar. “They were not drawn for that purpose, OK? They were not drawn for that purpose.”

Did someone put truth serum in the snausages or scrambled eggs?
posted by futz at 1:03 PM on April 16, 2017 [55 favorites]

I bet Trump is looking at the results in Turkey and thinking that maybe Erdogan is on to something. Strong leader! High energy!
posted by Justinian at 1:17 PM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

For those less familiar with racist dog whistles, "Hank Johnson's protege" = race traitor.
posted by hydropsyche at 1:17 PM on April 16, 2017 [30 favorites]

I bet Trump is looking at the results in Turkey and thinking that maybe Erdogan is on to something. Strong leader! High energy!

They're taking notes and looking around for another couple states to sign on to the Constitutional Convention.

And I guess a "president" with the power to appoint the legislature, judiciary and no other significant checks on power isn't a dictator now? Ok.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:25 PM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Seeing at least some allegations of shenanigans in Turkey, though it's hard to know exactly what's going on.
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on April 16, 2017

I'm not sure why anyone would expect a fair referendum on whether someone should become a dictator. If you had any respect for democracy you wouldn't be asking for those powers inthe first place!

I don't know what if anything can or should be done.
posted by Justinian at 1:33 PM on April 16, 2017 [17 favorites]

WSJ: Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Narrow Win Could End Up Undermining Him

I'm not nearly as optimistic––narrow wins and contested elections often don't seem to make as much of a difference as the author states (see also: George W Bush)––, but there's some hope here if you're looking for it.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on April 16, 2017

A Cracked.com listicle with an incoherent theme but some interesting stories has an impressive #1: "A Hammered Nixon Wanted To Nuke North Korea, So Kissinger Told Everyone To Ignore Him Until He Slept It Off". It was 1969, North Korea, still under its first ruling Kim, had just shot down an American spy plane with 31 American spies aboard and Tricky Dick, having consumed a little too much wine, essentially ordered a"tactical nuclear strike" on the naughty country. Henry Kissinger, then only a National Security Advisor, told the rest of the NSC to "let him sleep it off; he'll think better of it in the morning", and they did and he did. And that was what REALLY earned Henry the K the Nobel Peace Prize. All things considered, I don't know if that makes me more or less relieved that Donald doesn't drink.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:02 PM on April 16, 2017 [26 favorites]

Did someone put truth serum in the snausages or scrambled eggs?

I believe this is right's "Booyah!" moment and they really can't keep themselves from bubbling over with all the shit they have bottled up for a couple of decades. They want to brag about rigging the system because is pretty much their only achievement.
posted by srboisvert at 2:08 PM on April 16, 2017 [29 favorites]

For those less familiar with racist dog whistles, "Hank Johnson's protege" = race traitor.

Wut?

Henry C. "Hank" Johnson Jr. is the U.S. Representative for Georgia's 4th congressional district, serving since 2007. He is a member of the Democratic Party.

Ohh.

On January 25, 2007, Johnson responded to U.S. President George W. Bush's State of the Union address by criticizing the war in Iraq, saying "This war has proven to be one of the gravest missteps in the recent history of our country. It is time for President Bush to face the music and respond to the urgent demands of a frustrated country."

Cool. "This guy just wants to blame Republicans for all the terrible things Republicans have done" is always a weird talking point.
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Protests in Berkeley, California, erupted in violence on Saturday as anti- and pro-Donald Trump demonstrators clashed during a pro-Trump rally at Martin Luther King, Jr. Civic Center Park.

The fight that broke out between the two groups was recorded and posted on YouTube by the organization WeAreChange. In the video, which at time of writing has accumulated nearly 250,000 views, a female protester can be seen getting punched in the face by a male demonstrator. 
posted by gucci mane at 2:37 PM on April 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

Social liberalism is dying in the face of racism, nationalism, and fascism and it makes me depressed and afraid.
posted by Talez at 2:46 PM on April 16, 2017 [20 favorites]

'Terrorist' baby faces US embassy interview after error on visa form - Wrong tick in box about three-month-old’s terror activities leads to 10-hour detour, missed flights and £3,000 bill

“Baby Harvey was good as gold for the interview and never cried once. I thought about taking him along in an orange jumpsuit, but thought better of it,” said Kenyon. “They didn’t appear to have a sense of humour over it at all and couldn’t see the funny side.

“He’s obviously never engaged in genocide, or espionage, but he has sabotaged quite a few nappies in his time, though I didn’t tell them that at the US embassy.”

...He added: “If you were a terrorist, I suspect you’d not be ticking yes on the Esta form anyway.”

I think I just fell in love with grandpa Paul Kenyon.
posted by futz at 2:53 PM on April 16, 2017 [26 favorites]

Tokyo signals U-turn on TPP, moves to activate trade pact sans U.S.

Given Trump's seeming desire to suck up to Abe (and Pence is headed to Tokyo this week), I'm semi-seriously expecting a major reversal on the TPP any day now.
posted by zachlipton at 3:06 PM on April 16, 2017 [13 favorites]

> Social liberalism is dying in the face of racism, nationalism, and fascism and it makes me depressed and afraid.

On the bright side, socialism is getting stronger every day.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:15 PM on April 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

socialism is getting stronger every day.
yeah, National Socialism.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:21 PM on April 16, 2017 [11 favorites]

Did someone put truth serum in the snausages or scrambled eggs?

I would read that less as bragging and more as nervous incredulity. Gerrymandering only works up to a certain point, beyond which it bites you on the ass hard, and if Ossoff wins it has dire* implications for the entire Republican agenda nationwide.

*Do. Not. Snicker. Not. Snicker. Snickerdoodle. Unsnicker. SNICKER.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:25 PM on April 16, 2017 [11 favorites]

Viral fundraising catapults Democrat Kathryn Allen over Rep. Jason Chaffetz

-- Democrat and first-time candidate Kathryn Allen has leapfrogged Rep. Jason Chaffetz in nearly every metric of campaign fundraising: She raised more money, received contributions from more people and after expenses, has more cash available to spend.

So far this year, she raised nearly $400,000 more than the five-term Republican congressman, according to first quarter filings due Saturday, leaving her with $534,300 in her account. For the quarter, Chaffetz collected about $176,500. He has $402,700 in cash on hand.

-- Just 52 percent of Chaffetz's constituents — far below previous ratings — approve of his performance, according to a March poll from Utah Policy.
posted by futz at 4:20 PM on April 16, 2017 [37 favorites]

Alex Jones's lawyers tell court not to take anything he says on his show seriously, bc he's a "performance artist."


Pretty funny confession that Alex Jones' TV persona is a terrorist anarchist seeking to destroy society but it is not the real 'him'.
posted by srboisvert at 4:24 PM on April 16, 2017 [29 favorites]

Somebody might want to let Trump know not to take Alex Jones seriously.
posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on April 16, 2017 [24 favorites]

Somebody might want to let Trump know not to take Alex Jones seriously.

Trump's jotting down "Gosh, you can't anything I say seriously! I'm just a performance artist!" on a napkin for his impeachment hearings.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:35 PM on April 16, 2017 [39 favorites]

I am a good person with a lot of self-control, because I am not responding to each and every one of my elected officials' "He Is Risen" Easter Facebook posts with a message wishing them a Happy Passover. But I'm tempted.

Facebook's little "follow your elected officials" tool has not been very good for my blood pressure.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:42 PM on April 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

best response to "He Is Risen".... "And He Is Pissed With You".
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:45 PM on April 16, 2017 [16 favorites]

"Shock Jocks" have ALWAYS been Performance Artists, going back to the original Joe Pyne, of the famous quote "Go gargle with razor blades." One of the most notable radio people I've known got his start working for Pyne, who taught him to NEVER let them see the Real You.

And Trump's public persona is as much a creation of 'Reality' TV Producer Mark Burnett as William Shatner's is a creation of Gene Roddenberry. And both are as inept at keeping up their personas on their own. Can you say "It's All Fake" boys and girls?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:00 PM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's Louise Mensch's blog, so no, probably not.
posted by sporkwort at 5:17 PM on April 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's going to be hard to discuss US politics if we are not allowed to post anything the administration says.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:53 PM on April 16, 2017 [22 favorites]

Hmm, the Trump campaign part of a fascist conspiracy? I don't know guys
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:36 PM on April 16, 2017

Kids will love this: Trump’s Beyoncé-free Easter Egg Roll

Last year’s White House Easter Egg Roll featured a surprise visit from Beyoncé; athletes from the NBA and Washington Redskins; and a performance by actress and singer Idina Menzel, the voice behind that catchy song from the movie “Frozen.”

This year, the big act for the Trump administration is the Martin Family Circus, a six-person family band from Nashville that’s driving up to D.C. for the annual event in an RV.

posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on April 16, 2017 [25 favorites]

This year, the big act for the Trump administration is the Martin Family Circus, a six-person family band from Nashville that’s driving up to D.C. for the annual event in an RV.

Arg, that is pathetic. Yiiikes.

YUGE BIGLY TREMENDOUS. I want to know if it was a whites only event. Not even joking. I'd also love to hear from a precocious child who visited in years past. They probably made them sign an NDA though.

I thought that I saw an article that said that the organizers​ had floated only inviting kids from religious schools. Ya know, Christian's of a certain flavor.
posted by futz at 6:55 PM on April 16, 2017

the Martin Family Circus, a six-person family band from Nashville that’s driving up to D.C. for the annual event in an RV.

If they look and dress like the Bill Keane Family Circus then they'd be kind of awesome
posted by thelonius at 6:59 PM on April 16, 2017 [12 favorites]

Alex Jones's lawyers tell court not to take anything he says on his show seriously, bc he's a "performance artist."

As far as I'm aware, calling "actually I'm a performance artist" isn't a defense to defamation or incitement to violence. Although that quote appears to be from his child custody case, not the Pizzagate suit. Very different legal contexts as far as his public persona being used against him in his family life vs. him using his public platform to terrorize random unassociated business owners.

But who the fuck knows, Gorsuch is confirmed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:05 PM on April 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

If they look and dress like the Bill Keane Family Circus then they'd be kind of awesome

I'm mentally picturing a stage plot with a lot of randomly-intersecting dotted lines drawn on it, like when little Jeffy goes wandering around the neighborhood.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 7:15 PM on April 16, 2017 [9 favorites]

Fox On The Run:

Rachel Maddow’s excellent reporting on Trump and Russia is driving Fox News crazy

For the past several weeks Rachel Maddow has been enjoying record ratings for her MSNBC program. Not only that, in the Key 25-to-54 demographic, Maddow is beating her direct Fox News competition, Tucker Carlson. The surge in viewers can be attributed to the "gift" of endless atrocities and absurdities courtesy of Donald Trump & Company.

As a result of the program's accelerating success, Fox News is exhibiting signs of anxiety and desperation. This week Fox News lashed out to criticize Maddow by featuring an analysis of her coverage published by The Intercept. Fox's headline complained "Report Calls Out Just How Much Time MSNBC's Maddow Spends on Trump & Russia."

Fox’s Boston Affiliate Axing ‘Fox’ From Newscast Branding

Fox News Channel has had a rough few weeks PR-wise, and this isn’t going to help. Boston’s Fox affiliate WFXT-TV is dropping the word “Fox” from its newscast branding — guess why. According to the Boston Globe, it’s an effort to avoid viewers confusing it with Fox News.

NYT: O’Reilly’s Behavior Said to Have Helped Drive Megyn Kelly Out at Fox
posted by Room 641-A at 7:34 PM on April 16, 2017 [30 favorites]

Man, gaining both houses, the presidency and the supreme court but then losing that sweet 25-54 demographic is the worst O. Henry story ever.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:07 PM on April 16, 2017 [24 favorites]

We ought to be fighting dirtier than we have been,

I am reading Malala Yousafzai's I Am Malala. (It's really good. She pulls no punches in her criticism of the Taliban, the Pakistani government, or the US).

She talks about how common conspiracy theories were in Taliban occupied Pakistan in a way that makes it seem like those theories, and the distrust they engendered, were part of what made it hard to have a lasting peace accord or to build working democratic institutions.

I know people have shared similar accounts of what it is like in Russia. Everyone paranoid, everyone cynical, no one able to trust each other or expect better from their government.

We've got the truth on our side. That's a much more powerful and durable weapon than any propaganda.Let's not give it up.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:12 PM on April 16, 2017 [20 favorites]

Fox’s Boston Affiliate Axing ‘Fox’ From Newscast Branding

The WFXT rebranding might be more due to mismanagement by Cox, which bought the station from Fox in 2014 and has made it flail ever since, starting with basically forcing out their popular (and pricey) anchor, Maria Stephanos. As their ratings continued to plunge, they brought in a motivational speaker last August (and he no doubt lectured them on how losing is a disease) - and they first started talking about dropping Fox from their name in December.
posted by adamg at 8:13 PM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alt Right ‘Proud Boys’ Declare Victory In Berkeley Melee

A pro-Trump group known as the Proud Boys sponsored the protest that descended into bloody violence at Berkeley’s Civic Center Park on Saturday. They say they have a right to bring their views to liberal Berkeley.

According to the description on their Facebook page, “The Proud Boys are a fraternal organization founded on a system of beliefs and values of minimal government, maximum freedom, anti-political correctness, anti-racial guilt, pro-gun rights, anti-Drug War, closed borders, anti-masturbation, venerating entrepreneurs, venerating housewives, and reinstating a spirit of Western chauvinism during an age of globalism and multiculturalism.”

This is fucking hilarious, pathetic and disturbing. For me this is WTF turned up to 11. Then I saw that it was founded by Gavin McInnes.

These are dystopian trash heap bros. My god, the cringe. I think I'll need surgery to detach my shoulders from behind my ears. Case in point:

A recurring trope on various parts of the fix-your-life internet, whether it’s Reddit’s “nofap” page or pick-up artist forums, is the idea that abstaining from masturbating will bring about a wholesale life change.

McInnes promotes a similar idea called “#nowanks,” saying that masturbating more than once a month drains one’s interest — especially for millennials — in sex. The caveat: Proud Boys can always masturbate within a yard of a woman, with her consent.

I hope that the existence of groups like this are indicative of a last dying gasp of people who are unable to progress with the rest of us. They are an overreaction to a tattered and broken way of thinking that is endangered. Ironically, they won't be saved by the endangered species act because their brethren have all but eliminated the EPA.

Perhaps a "save the white males" campaign is in order? A "Free Willy" movement of sorts. Cackles.
posted by futz at 8:36 PM on April 16, 2017 [11 favorites]

best response to 'He Is Risen'....'And He Is Pissed With You'.

"If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up." -- Max von Sydow in Hannah and Her Sisters
posted by kirkaracha at 8:43 PM on April 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

Jake Tapper can draw cartoons. I did not know that.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:57 PM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

A recurring trope on various parts of the fix-your-life internet, whether it’s Reddit’s “nofap” page or pick-up artist forums, is the idea that abstaining from masturbating will bring about a wholesale life change.

Have they tried corn flakes?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:01 PM on April 16, 2017 [24 favorites]

Jake Tapper can draw cartoons. I did not know that.

After the Japanese earthquake, the Japanese newscasters would sit in front of a handmade diorama of the nuclear plant and use it as a prop to explain what was going on. I still think US news would be a better place if Wolf Blizter had to pause to glue a few toothpicks in place before he could proceed with his show. Jake Tapper's cartoons are slowly bringing us in the right direction here.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

> We've got the truth on our side. That's a much more powerful and durable weapon than any propaganda. Let's not give it up.

This is not true. And it's dangerously not true. Despite our mutually held desire that the truth in and of itself will shine through in the end, that's not how language, minds, politics, or society works. Rhetoric, persuasion, agitation, and outright propaganda¹ are necessary to build movements and power. Careful claims of access to truth are sometimes valuable parts of rhetoric, persuasion, agitation, and propaganda, but truth doesn't move itself — it's not in and of itself persuasive.

"We have truth on our side and we don't need propaganda" feels good to say, and looks good on paper, but in practice it leads to paralysis on the side of the people who espouse it as a guiding principle, and often ultimately results in the person taking that stance behaving with nothing but contempt toward the people they're trying to move. The process goes something like this:

1. We have truth on our side! That's better than any propaganda!
2. Holy crap people keep believing things that aren't true, even though we've told 'em the truth!
3. Why don't those IDIOTS understand that we have truth! What's wrong with everyone? Why is everyone so STUPID? I bet they're a bunch of redditors! Damn stupid redditors, don't even understand the TRUTH when it's RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM? Grar!!

Behaving as if one has access to truth and therefore doesn't need to rely on propaganda techniques to change minds is one of those things that looks respectful on paper, but is in practice profoundly disrespectful. It's a mark of argumentative laziness, more than anything else.

1: And beyond these persuasive tactics, force outside of persuasive force is necessary as well. Our interest ultimately isn't in persuading people, it's in changing their actions. And you can change someone's actions without persuading them as to the truth or even correctness of your cause; for example through boycotts, strikes, protests that disrupt institutional operations in expensive ways, and other shows of material force.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:22 PM on April 16, 2017 [69 favorites]

Value for truthfulness has almost no relation to persuasiveness or to voting patterns. I don't know what else we need other than 2016 to drive this home.

We live in a world of ignorant monkeys voting what makes them feel good, not a world where the absolute value of truth has any bearing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:33 PM on April 16, 2017 [15 favorites]

yes, though with the proviso that we must realize and accept that we're ignorant monkeys too. One of the reasons why "we have truth on our side and that's better than any propaganda" doesn't work is that it is itself an ignorant monkey move. Every fool ape believes they've got access to truth: every self-righteous atheist, every proselytizer who thinks it's worthwhile to ask strangers whether they've heard the truth of Christ, every squishy agnostic who thinks the truth's somewhere in the middle, every College Republican, every Bob Avakian groupie marching behind a Revolutionary Communist Party banner, every kid who's just found a Trotskyist formation that's got all the answers, every good-government liberal, every r/redpill poster.

The thing I've been trying to reason toward is a framework for understanding truth where truth is thought of less in terms of having a set of beliefs that correspond with the world or predict its behavior, and more in terms of truth being a set of beliefs and behaviors ("praxis," or action guided by theory) that can move the world. Truth understood in terms of moral rectitude, or even just in terms of accurate correspondence with the world, is a dead letter until you figure out how to make that truth do things. Unfortunately, "tell people what you believe to be true and they'll be moved!" is not a true statement, so figuring out how to get from beliefs to worldchanging takes figuring out how to use rhetoric, persuasion, propaganda, and sometimes just plain material force.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:43 PM on April 16, 2017 [21 favorites]

Right, but just to be clear - my preferences and views are the correct ones.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:48 PM on April 16, 2017 [9 favorites]

Obviously.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:52 PM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]

but on the bright side, we've got all these neat corrosion crystals around. let's see what we can do with 'em.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:00 PM on April 16, 2017

Half a week later I finally made it to the bottom of the thread.

I cannot WAIT to hear how much of a trainwreck the egg roll is gonna be.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:10 PM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

The last I heard, Donald has outsourced the entire Egg Roll ceremony to Panda Express. Yep, it's gonna be awesome.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:50 PM on April 16, 2017 [6 favorites]

The number one reason the democrats should get involved in ratfucking is because they desperately need the practice.
posted by fullerine at 11:15 PM on April 16, 2017 [8 favorites]

Every fool ape believes they've got access to truth: every self-righteous atheist, every proselytizer who thinks it's worthwhile to ask strangers whether they've heard the truth of Christ, every squishy agnostic who thinks the truth's somewhere in the middle, every College Republican, every Bob Avakian groupie marching behind a Revolutionary Communist Party banner, every kid who's just found a Trotskyist formation that's got all the answers, every good-government liberal, every r/redpill poster.

*eats banana, flings poo*
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:19 PM on April 16, 2017 [4 favorites]

a fraternal organization founded on a system of beliefs and values of [...] anti-masturbation, venerating entrepreneurs, venerating housewives...

For an organization who claims to be anti-masturbation, they don't seem to have put much thought into the private habits of people they are venerating.
posted by toxic at 11:21 PM on April 16, 2017 [2 favorites]

Behaving as if one has access to truth and therefore doesn't need to rely on propaganda techniques to change minds is one of those things that looks respectful on paper, but is in practice profoundly disrespectful. It's a mark of argumentative laziness, more than anything else.

It is also a bit ahistorical, as the victims of, say, the Rwandan genocide might attest. Or the millions of dead in DRC. Or the third of the population that Pol Pot killed. Maybe those killed in the USSR purges and famines, or the Cultural Revolution. Maybe even Brexit, if you like. That's all without breaching Godwin's Law.
posted by jaduncan at 11:22 PM on April 16, 2017 [5 favorites]

The last I heard, Donald has outsourced the entire Egg Roll ceremony to Panda Express. Yep, it's gonna be awesome.

I honestly can't tell [real] from [fake] anymore and googled "Donald has outsourced the entire Egg Roll ceremony to Panda Express" just to figure out if it was actually something that's happening.

I got Panda Express' menu. That's a relief. For now.
posted by mikelieman at 11:37 PM on April 16, 2017 [7 favorites]

For an organization against masturbation, their stroking of their metaphorical win sure seems masturbatory.
posted by Archelaus at 11:56 PM on April 16, 2017 [3 favorites]

the problem is not only don't some people want to believe the truth, they're not going to want to believe our propaganda, either, which is where the argument falls apart

it may take utter wretchedness in defeat and disaster and having their noses rubbed in it deeply for people to change their minds - i'm not sure that will happen and i'm not even sure that would work, so stubborn are some
posted by pyramid termite at 2:19 AM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

For an organization against masturbation

I imagine the 'logic' is, "In a circle-jerk, you're not TECHNICALLY masturbating."
posted by mikelieman at 3:43 AM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

I won't have you maligning the nobility of the circle-jerk
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:48 AM on April 17, 2017 [5 favorites]

CNN: On North Korean border, Pence tells CNN US will drop 'failed policy'" "We're going to abandon the failed policy of strategic patience. But we're going to redouble our efforts to bring diplomatic and economic pressure to bear on North Korea. Our hope is that we can resolve this issue peaceably," Pence said in an exclusive interview at the DMZ.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:17 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

We're going to abandon the failed policy of strategic patience.

Conflicts with their overall policy of impulsive idiocy.
posted by chris24 at 4:35 AM on April 17, 2017 [39 favorites]

I won't have you maligning the nobility of the circle-jerk

I apologize and retract my earlier statement in entirety.
posted by mikelieman at 4:37 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]

You Can't Tip a Buick -- you and I have disagreed about this before, so I know you are in the "words are just tools for accomplishing a task" camp. I don't agree, but I won't belabor it here. I'll just say that you can use persuasive rhetoric and connect with people on an emotional level without making crap up ala Louise Mensch. You can simplify without inventing. And there's a major advantage to doing so: "Reality is persistent, and propaganda that explains it away has to keep changing. Eventually people catch on."
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:54 AM on April 17, 2017 [7 favorites]

The caveat: Proud Boys can always masturbate within a yard of a woman, with her consent.

What the fuck even is with goddamn humanity.
posted by corb at 5:04 AM on April 17, 2017 [23 favorites]

McInnes promotes a similar idea called “#nowanks,” saying that masturbating more than once a month drains one’s interest — especially for millennials — in sex. The caveat: Proud Boys can always masturbate within a yard of a woman, with her consent.

If modern religion teaches us anything it will be that they will have rules lawyers who argue it to mean a yard as in backyard.
posted by srboisvert at 5:05 AM on April 17, 2017 [8 favorites]

Daily Beast: New Power Center in Trumpland: The ‘Axis of Adults’

There’s a new band in town that’s guiding national security by quietly tutoring the most powerful man in America. Never-Trump Republicans who’d been apprehensive about President Donald Trump are celebrating the trio’s influence, calling Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and Homeland Secretary John Kelly the “Axis of Adults.”

i guess we're supposed to be happy because the No Puppet's strings are being pulled by interventionist warhawks instead of isolationist nazis now?

Also Kelly seems like he's been all too game for the No Brown People immigration moves for there to be no nazi points on his card.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:15 AM on April 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

murphy slaw: Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and Homeland Secretary John Kelly the “Axis of Adults.”

How is Tillerson included in this list? Isn't Pence in South Korea attempting to do his job?
posted by bluecore at 5:22 AM on April 17, 2017 [19 favorites]

I checked out the Martin Family Circus. They were pretty tight, covering "Happy". Nailing all their harmonys in the vocal arrangement. If your idea of a good time is the TV show "7th Heaven" in musical form, they'd be right up your alley.
posted by thelonius at 5:40 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

There is no such thing as an isolationist Nazi.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:49 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

I thinking they are very specifically isolationist with regards to doing anything that interferes with Russia's goals.
posted by Artw at 5:53 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fair point.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:10 AM on April 17, 2017

O HAI. IZ NEW THRED?

Because that would be relevant to my interests
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

Is there a new thread? This one is gone, gone, gone.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:34 AM on April 17, 2017

Martin Family Circus covering ELO. It's not "play the White House" good, but it's not bad, either.
posted by EarBucket at 7:04 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

futz: HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN snubbed his Wisconsin constituents during the President’s Day congressional recess, refusing to hold even a single town hall...

> Speaker Paul Ryan, After Passing Regulatory Rollback, Parties With Lobbyists at Fundraiser

The adversarial ads write themselves: "After Paul Ryan changed the rules so he could get more money from lobbyists and special interests, he chose to party with big-ticket donors from [wherever they come from] instead of meeting with his constituents during the latest congressional recess.

Paul Ryan doesn't work for you, he's in the pocket of industry interests. Vote for [anyone else] on [the next election date]."

Unfortunately, ads don't pay for themselves (except when they go viral).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:17 AM on April 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

'Congressioal.'

How presidenioal.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:28 AM on April 17, 2017 [21 favorites]

[I'll get a new thread up this morning, if no one else is working on one]
posted by filthy light thief at 7:34 AM on April 17, 2017 [10 favorites]

We live in a world of ignorant monkeys voting what makes them feel good, not a world where the absolute value of truth has any bearing.

yeah, it's almost like people will vote for someone who they think will improve their material conditions. someone who might give them a reason to take three hours out of their exhausting day of working two jobs to make ends meet or caring full time for an ailing family member or raising children or all three to stand in line and vote. someone who offers them more than worship of process and respectability.

anyway, considering them subhuman is definitely the first step on the path to victory. high school debate team 2020!
posted by indubitable at 7:42 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

yeah, it's almost like people will vote for someone who they think will improve their material conditions.

C'mon, now. We know this election was won and lost on questions of endemic racism, misogyny and the will to punish liberals, and that Trump's core support came not from the economically marginal but from the comfortable. I don't see any need to rehash this.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:45 AM on April 17, 2017 [41 favorites]

"After Paul Ryan changed the rules so he could get more money from lobbyists and special interests, he chose to party with big-ticket donors from [wherever they come from] instead of meeting with his constituents during the latest congressional recess.

Depending on where you run the ad, the "wherever" should be "East Coast" or "big cities" or "urban centers". (His donors can't all come from his state, right?) Heck, even "West Coast" sounds bad to Republicans. As does "SF", "Hollywood" and "friend of Nancy Pelosi", whether true or not.
posted by puddledork at 7:47 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]

Report from the tax march on Washington:

It was of course much thinner than the women's march, and took its time getting going. Still a pretty impressive turnout, and watching people filing out of the Capitol Grounds really sets in just how big the scale is. It's still crazy to me Trump was even able to fill this past the reflecting pool, honestly.

Maxine Waters has laryngitis but talked us up. It's full-on tourist season here now (though we've already seen reports that turnout's expected to shrink), so it was funny to shut down one side of Pennsylvania Ave. while tourist buses ogled us from the other.

The inflatable Trump chickens get a thumbs up.

Trump's twitter reaction has been predictably well-measured and not at all insane or out-of touch, since it's true that George Soros personally handed all of us a solid gold Krugerrand to show up on time [fake].

Also he's still operating from the historic-win-because-I'm-special-and-also-bombs! perspective: "I did what was an almost an impossible thing to do for a Republican-easily won the Electoral College! Now Tax Returns are brought up again?" [real]

We'll see how the science march goes; it's been hyped up a lot more.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:49 AM on April 17, 2017 [25 favorites]

3) A bizarre speech to give to kids,

I shudder to think how he talks to his 11 year old. Not to imply that there's anything wrong with being an older parent (my partner is 67 and we're thinking of trying for a baby), but Trump's communication style doesn't seem t be really child friendly.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]

You know you're in one of the darker timelines when you think "hey, at least the President didn't tell young girls that he was looking forward to the day that he could date them."

And you know you've been living in a dark timeline for a while when you say "eh, I'm sure it could get darker, so I'll reserve the title Darkest Timeline for a later date."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:36 AM on April 17, 2017 [9 favorites]

Man, Trump will show those 1878 egg roll organizers, that egg roll was dogshit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:37 AM on April 17, 2017 [12 favorites]

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD
posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on April 17, 2017 [11 favorites]

Seems unlikely that Trump ever speaks to his kid.
posted by Artw at 9:02 AM on April 17, 2017 [6 favorites]